Oblivion talk:May the Best Thief Win

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Contents 1 The Second Test 2 Methods of completing 3 NPC details 4 Problems doing this quest 5 Getting Rohssan's Sword Back 6 Bugs 7 Locked (key needed) Door 8 2 Infamy from A Second Fighting Chance 9 Error? 10 New Bug 11 Possible addition to journal entries notes 12 (Moved from main article) 13 Bug with Methredhel never delivering diary last day(s) of the month 14 Bug: Failed quest with diary in my possession 15 Bug moved from Oblivion:Thieves Guild

[edit] The Second Test

Shouldn't there be a section concerning the second test Armand gives you if Methredel succeeds in joining the guild? Namely, the part about Rohssan having a guard dog in her bedroom who'll alert her to your presence? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.31.106.34 (talk • contribs).

It is mentioned at the bottom of the notes; hopefully when this page gets cleaned up and converted to the proper quest format the second test will get better incorporated into the rest of the quest. --Nephele 22:42, 7 February 2007 (EST)

Incorporated the second chance quest during rewrite and cleanup - might need a tweak in the options layout as I haven't done the quest myself or trialled possibles eg. times rohssan sleeps, killing dog whilst sneaking etc. --MacFodder 21:24, 11 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] Methods of completing

Not sure if you need to mention other ways to complete above and beyond the major approaches. eg. pickpocket Methie before she leaves allectus' house, followup down sewer and pickpocket, wait until she arrives to deliver the diary and pickpocket before she interacts etc.--MacFodder 21:24, 11 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] NPC details

i'll have a visit to methie's shack and get the NPC who lives with her. their schedule is 6PM for a slapup nosh at the bloated float, her sleep times are hazy to recall - until 10 am ? Methie hangs out in the temple district in the evenings but might be affected with her going to armand etc.--MacFodder 21:24, 11 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] Problems doing this quest

I'm having problems doing this quest and I'm not sure i was in the right place. --ShakenMike 13:34, 18 February 2007 (EST)

Give a few more details of the problem you're having (starting the quest or within the quest?) and we may be able to help you. You should begin at the Garden of Dareloth (behind the abandoned shack in the Waterfront District) at midnight. --GuildKnight 11:51, 15 February 2007 (EST)

I miss the first part of the quest due to my timing.I can't even pickpocket the person inside her store in market district for the Diary.--ShakenMike 13:34, 18 February 2007 (EST)

So, are you saying that Methredhel gets the diary before you? If so, see Creative Thieving --GuildKnight 23:36, 15 February 2007 (EST)

I might already did that I think.The journal told me to steal a sword from someone in the market district.--ShakenMike 13:34, 18 February 2007 (EST)

Then you're at the second half of the quest, A Second Fighting Chance. Follow your quest arrow to the store (or talk to a beggar to find out where the store is, if your quest arrow is not pointing to the store yet). You don't want to pickpocket anyone to get the sword; the sword is in a chest upstairs. --Nephele 00:35, 17 February 2007 (EST)

Ok thanks and I'm able to get it.--ShakenMike 13:34, 18 February 2007 (EST)

By the way, UESP leaves discussions on discussion pages so that they may be able to help another player. --GuildKnight 21:00, 24 February 2007 (EST)

I've hit a problem in that the diary isn't there! The green gem shows it's still in the desk, but it isn't on or beneath it; Methredel doesn't have it nor is it anywhere in her house. Getting arrested or going back to the midnight meeting doesn't spark off the second try. Basically, it looks like the game's stuck, with no way in.Prunesquallor 06:46, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

I beat her to the diary, but later I walked into her house before returning to the diary, and I got the message, you place the diary in the chest. I had to pick and steal the diary back. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rebelscum (talk • contribs).

[edit] Getting Rohssan's Sword Back

This comment was added in reference to what happens if you are arrested by a guard:

However, you can pick the evidence chest in the prison, and get it back, and return it to Armand Christophre

However, in my experience, breaking into the evidence chest is the worst thing to do if you lose a quest item when you're in prison: quest items (such as Rohssan's Sword) do not reappear when you break into the evidence chest. You're much better off serving your time, at which point all quest items (including stolen ones), do reappear. I haven't tested this specifically with Rohssan's Sword, but I wouldn't imagine that it works differently than any of the other items that I have tested. --Nephele 13:12, 3 March 2007 (EST)

[edit] Bugs

At one point, I went from my Imperial City home straight to the Garden of Dareloth very close to midnight (I think it was about 11:55 pm when I left my house). Methredel never showed up. Going back the next night, everything was fine.--Robin Hood 23:10, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Locked (key needed) Door

In Allectus' House there is a door in the main room that requires a key. The Allectus key does not work. Any ideas? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.71.246.168 (talk • contribs).

There is no key for that door. Generally when there's no key for an unpickable lock it means that it's a quest-related door that gets opened as part of a quest. In this case, the name of the door in the construction set is "EscapeDoorRef", but I can't even find anywhere in the CS where the door gets unlocked. The one option that I can't check at the moment is that the door is possibly used by Methredhel when she steals the diary, allowing her to instantly transport back to her house. In any case, it doesn't seem to be a door that the player ever gets to open. --Nephele^Talk 00:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Methredhel actually uses the basement door to escape somehow. I used tcl to travel through the door and there isn't anything on the other side, unless it leads to a new area, but in those cases the area it would lead to would usually be shown when you hover the mouse over the door. Bamspeedy 21:32, 1 June 2007 (EDT)Bamspeedy

Why doesn't someone just unlock it using console commands and then walk through? 74.101.74.38 07:47, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

Why didn't you try it? :-) I just tried it and nothing happens. The 'needs a key' message goes away, but nothing happens when you click on the door. --Bamspeedy 23:44, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Possibly it was put in for a quest or something that never ended up in the final game (mabey having to do with the blood-sucking plants?), however at some point Bethesda might have deleted an area but not the door, leaving a door that it not linked to another area. Someevilgenius 01:32, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Which door? Methredhel uses the basement door to escape with the diary. You can pick that lock and follow her, then there is a trap door to the sewers in the basement. I never tried to open the basement door before the quest, so maybe it becomes unpickable until then, or it's status changes when the quest begins.

[edit] 2 Infamy from A Second Fighting Chance

Minor stat detail, but you get two infamy points instead of one by failing the stealing of the diary but then successfully stealing Rohsann's sword. So you could get up to 30 infamy from the Thieve's guild quests instead of 29. Bamspeedy 21:41, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Error?

It says that fast-traveling to the temple district is slower then running, however EVERY time I've done this quest, I fast traveled and was able to get to the diary before Methredhel was even inside the temple district. 74.101.74.38 07:45, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

Did you have high skills? The time it takes to fast travel depends on your stats (probably speed, but also possibly agility and/or athletics) . I just tested this by fast traveling from the prison sewer exit to Leyawiin. With all my stats at 1 (skills at 0) then 6 hours passed, when all stats and skills was set to 100 only 3 hours passed. Just going from Waterfront to the temple district would only be a minute or so, but in that foot race 10 seconds is a huge advantage. --Bamspeedy 23:40, 16 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] New Bug

This has come from the main page. My reason for moving it here is that it's not clear exactly what happens. Was the diary successfully pickpocketed or not? If so, why not just take it to Armand yourself? If not, surely she'll report you anyway? Plus there's first-person usage.

• POSSIBLE QUEST BREAKER! On the PS3 version of Oblivion, if you decide to follow Methredhel to Amantius Allectus' house and she gets the diary before you, DO NOT attempt to pickpocket it from her. Firstly, you can't get it from her unless you have a high sneak skill, and secondly, if you do this, she will never put the diary in the chest in her house, meaning she never takes it to Armand. therefore, you can't get into the Thieves Guild. Not tested yet, but that's what happened to me.

[edit] Possible addition to journal entries notes

I was thinking, shouldn't there something mentioning that even though the journal says in stage 75 that "Armand is giving Amusei and I ...", that Amusei isn't actually given another oppertunity? I would make the edit if I knew how, but the text there is part of a template (if I remember correctly). On another note, I believe the comment under "Bugs" about not being able to fast-travel should be removed, or at least moved since that bug can happen at various locations and times, not just during this or a select few quests. Thanks in advance to whoever make the edits and/or responds back with a conclusion! Someevilgenius 01:26, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

[edit] (Moved from main article)

IMPORTANT: I, Who Played This Quest Recently, Found The Diary On Methredhel's Body, Not In The Chest. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.184.122.104 (talk • contribs).

I'm going to assume that means you pickpoceted it from her, because she can't die.

That's it, I managed to pickpocket her just as went off the house.

Also moved from main article: One quirk of completing the quest this way is that you are not officially told the rules of guild membership.. I tried this with no mods active on the original Oblivion.ESM and this doesn't happen. The only topic available after returning Rohssan's Antique Cutlass to Armand is "Three rules" as with the usual way of completing the quest. Kivan 14:11, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Bug with Methredhel never delivering diary last day(s) of the month

Just so that there's some backing to this bug I just posted, I found this one while I was playtesting this quest for another bug (I can't believe my luck at finding these things.) :^p

From Methredhel's script:
Set TG01BestThief.DayMethredhelDelivers to GameDay + 2
If GameHour < 12
Set TG01BestThief.DayMethredhelDelivers to GameDay + 1
EndIf

The GameDay function has been a notorious source of bugs. The designers who wrote the scripts seemed unaware at first that it returns the day of the month, so it wraps around to 1 when the month ends. If the current month has 29 or more days, it may be set to 30 or 31, which will take at least a game month to reoccur or more likely several months, or 32 or even 33, which will never occur, so Methredhel won't deliver the diary for a very long time, or never at all. -- Kivan 21:57, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

That makes perfect sense! I believe this bug could be fixed by commanding Methredel to deliver the diary a determinable amount of hours later instead of one or two days later. Someone should collect as many of these "potential bugs" as he can and make a patch out of it anybody with the Construction Set (not me) and some programming knowledge (again not me, much of what I know about scripting comes from theory) will do. (Gromir the Wasted)24.2.171.37 13:06, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Might I suggest that you read about the Unofficial Oblivion Patch? And perhaps take note of the authors of the patch? --Nephele^Talk 13:22, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Bug: Failed quest with diary in my possession

The quest failed when I had the diary in my possession.

The thieves' guild meeting took place at 2am to 3am on Heartfire 28. Methredel was stuck in her house for some reason. When I picked the lock to investigate, she started walking to the meeting place. At 5:10pm on Heartfire 28, I travelled to the waterfront. figured I'd taunt Methredel a bit about the diary, do the bloated float quest, and deposit Goldbrand in my house's chest.

I overhear Methredel talking to Armand: "I had the diary but someone stole it from me!". Then, I got a quest message: "Word on the street is that Methredel delivered the diary". I'm running the Frostcrag Spire plugin, Shivering isles, oblivion standard with latest patch, unofficial oblivion patch, and AFLevelling mod.

The quest started normally. I tailed Methredel to Amantius's house, after asking a beggar where it was, and tailed her into Amantius's basement after she got his diary. Methredel disappeared on top of the sewer entrance, so I went down, smacked some gobbos around a bit, and exited the sewers. At about 10am, I asked a beggar about Methredel's house, broke in, stole the diary from her chest, and pickpocked her gold. She yelled at me for a bit.

I headed over to Boethia's shrine for Goldbrand, and encountered another bug while there, then came back and failed the quest with the diary in my possession.

I'm pretty sure with this quest you have to complete it before sunrise, meaning that you should probably do all of the quest at one time, including talking to Armande about the diary. --Twentyfists 22:13, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

What do you mean "She yelled at me for a bit."? Why was she yelling - did she catch you pick pocketing her?

If this is the case, it could be once the diary was in your inventory it was unable to be dropped, since it is a quest item. If you are caught pick pocketing someone they usually take back what you have stolen, often all items that belong to them, not just what you immediately taken. If you stole it from her room, and then she took it back there may have been two copies, (since yours can't be dropped), and it could have registered that she was still in possession of the diary. If this is the case it would qualify as a glitch I would have though. There is usually a message telling you what items are being removed from your inventory when caught pick pocketing.

[edit] Bug moved from Oblivion:Thieves Guild

I moved this from Oblivion:Thieves Guild. It needs to be verified, and if verified, should be added to this article instead. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 22:21, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Sometimes the argonian required to start "May the Best Thief Win" will not show up. This can be fixed with the 1.2.1 patch. If he still doesn't show up you may have to start a new account to join the Thieves Guild. This glitch has only been found on the Xbox 360 Collector's Edition, and the PS3 Game of the Year Edition. The reason for this bug is unknown at this time.

I'm assuming the editor is referring to Amusei. This has never happened to me on Xbox, either with the original or the Platinum Hits version, though they are patched and I don't have the GotY version. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 22:21, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

- I am having this problem now, except it is the wood elf, instead of the Argonian that isn't showing up. I was at the garden and tried to join, before I had the topic. Came back afterward, and she just never came. I've waited a couple of nights too. Any ideas? This is on 360 with GOTY edition.

Fix: There is none. The reason these two NPCs sometimes don't show up is that they get killed. They do resurrect as important characters do, but they seem to lose connection to the quest (and therefore irreversibly break it, except for PC gamers who can advance the quest with console commands).