Oblivion talk:Factions

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Contents 1 Levelled Items 2 Other Factions 3 Advancement 4 Expellation Glitch 5 One Faction or Many? 6 Mythic Dawn 7 Adding Myself To Unjoinable Factions 8 Stealing from a Faction, then Joining it. 9 Factions Cleanup

[edit] Levelled Items

I'm not really sure how Wiki works exactly. (The etiquette and what not) So forgive me if I'm going about this the wrong way, but I'm just curious about the fight with the grey prince. When I fought him he had both elven long sword and shield. When my friend fought him he had both dwarven sword and shield, and the writer of this section was in the middle. I'm curious if it changes depending on level, because I was a high level (round 16) when I fought him while my friend was lower. (round 8) Not that it makes a very big deal just don't want people thinking this site is inaccurate. -- Jenic

Yes indeed it depends on your level. A lot of the creatures you meet in dungeons etc and the items that they drop are based upon your character's level. Towards the 25+ area you will find bandits and maurauders wandering around with glass armour on - can make quite a tidy profit out of that ;) Also in the Oblivion gates you won't meet the really nasty bad guys (the daedric princes and fighters) until quite a high level. -- Jimbob0i0

Yes I noticed that change with normal animals and levels and such. Actually just today I was walking around and saw 4 people walking around in glass and deadric armour and I was like, "what in the..." But I was actually talking about the Grey Prince battle and that if it changes depending on level it probably shouldn't say "he has these weapons" since they change depending upon level.--Jenic 21:49, 30 March 2006 (EST)

The weapons mentioned are what he enters the game with; they can vary at a later date if the character's level changes before entering the arena. If you enter the arena at level 1, for example, his weaponry will never change from those in the article at any point. If you enter the arena at level 25, his weapons will be better, but again, they will not change after that point. --HMSVictory 05:58, 19 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Other Factions

I'm thinking of tying this section in with the NPC sections that are going up gradually. Might be interesting to see who's related to who through factions in this way. Just a start, may do more later. Not sure about including some factions, like those with only one member, for example. Also in many cases, I don't know if there are plot-specific things that happen with certain factions, like people joining and being kicked out, changing sides, etc. But other people can make such corrections later if they want. --TheRealLurlock 19:41, 6 July 2006 (EDT)

Yeah, I'm sorry but, that just seems really pointless, and looks stupid and messy. I don't think its going to help everyone to know that the castle guards and beggars are in different groups. I mean, they are all red anyways, what kind of article are you going to make for them? The city of Anvil page provides all the info on that kind of stuff anyways. --Blamat 12:50, 7 August 2006 (EDT)

Alright, way late, but I made a compromise, and moved the other factions to their own page. Maybe I'll consider filling in more later if I run out of other stuff. It's far from complete, of course, but most people probably don't care, so it's not a high priority. --TheRealLurlock 23:24, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Advancement

If anyone knows the specifics of advancement (i.e. after which quests you advance), I think that would be very relevant info to have on the Dark Brotherhood and the Fighters, Theives, and Mages Guild's pages. GuildKnight 22:32, 30 November 2006 (EST)

[edit] Expellation Glitch

I really don't know how to explain this, but I keep getting expelled from ALL the guilds I'm in for stealing when I didn't steal. It has happened twice, A bandit attacked my horse and I was expelled. Then I killed a scamp in an oblivion gate and I was expelled. I can't get expelled anymore, or it will be permanent.--Apps001 23:08, 12 January 2008 (EST)

You've probably inadvertently attacked your horse. When you buy a horse, the horse is placed in the same factions as you, so the game treats it as a fellow guildmember. --Gaebrial 05:31, 15 January 2008 (EST)

No one was nearby to see me.--Apps001 10:01, 18 January 2008 (EST)

It doesn't matter. See Mages Guild Suspension and Cast out of the Thieves Guild but basically you can be kicked out even if nobody saw you do the deed. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:15, 18 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] One Faction or Many?

Can you be in all five of the guilds ("major factions") simultaneously? Are there any factions (major or minor) which, upon joining, prohibit you from being in any other faction? -- Laisren 05:52, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Yes, you can be a member of every faction at the same time, without penalty. Unlike Morrowind, which involved both prohibition and disposition penalties. In fact, part of 100% completion is achieving the highest rank in every faction. --HMSVictory 05:55, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Thanks! This is key information (a frequently asked question from new players, from what I've seen), so I've added it to the article. -- Laisren 19:39, 19 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Mythic Dawn

Ive noticed that there are non negative disposition Boosts towards the Player Faction has any one noticed this. Also if anyone tells me about the blades factions, what if you have not joined them yet does that mean you can use the unlock console to open the door and join?

Joining the Blades is entirely optional and no one except Glathier in Skingrad knows whether you joined or not. (Other than the Blades of course) Not joining the Blades won't have any effect on your Mythic Dawn memebership, since the journal entry will always say "My cover has been blown." What cover? But still get you kicked out of Mythic Dawn unless you do everything they ask and never leave the cave or pick up the book. I don't know about the console commands as I've only played it on 360 and PS3 but I've also wondered how you could be in the Knights of the Thorn, Blackwood Company and Mythic Dawn at the same time. The main article does say "You can be in EVERY faction at the same time." "Every Faction" only includes those that PC can join but Mythic Dawn and Blackwood Company are both joinable.--Webdemon00 07:16, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

The Blackwood Company and Mythic Dawn don't count. You only get put in these by performing certain quests, and even then only for a little bit. You may as well call the Creature faction joinable, as you become a member through wearing the Boots of the Crusader. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:37, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Rpeh, as always you fail to dissappoint me. I was thinking about running away from Water's Edge and "infiltrating" the Mythic Dawn to see if they all look like Goblins. Thanks for the laugh.--Webdemon00 06:47, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Adding Myself To Unjoinable Factions

Using the console, is it possible to add myself to, for instance, the creature faction or bandit faction? If so what is the command for this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The-manta (talk • contribs) on 28 October 2008.

See the Tutorial page. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:32, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

thanks (sorry about sign off) I can see many console-induced monster invasions lol The-manta 13:35, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Stealing from a Faction, then Joining it.

I'm at odds at how to include this information, but it is something of note: if you walk into a Mages' Guild hall (before joining up) and steal items from the building, they will show in your inventory as stolen. When you join the Mages' Guild, those same items will remain marked as stolen, until you put them into a container inside the building and then remove them once more. I haven't tested beyond that, so I don't know if placing those items into any generic container will remove the stolen tags, nor investigated further with other factions/guilds. —Dark Spark 01:40, 26 December 2008 (EST)

No, it won't work. This is because "generic" containers, as you put it, do not belong to the guild from which the items were originally taken. Items stolen from the mages guild belong to the mages guild. Likewise the containers in the guild halls belong to the mages guild. Take an item from a guild container while not a guild member and you're stealing (and the item is marked as such). Put the item in any mages guild container and you're returning the item to its rightful owner, so it loses the stolen tag. If you're then a guild member, you can legally take the item afterwards. That's how that works. The likes of the fighters guild should follow the same principles, in theory. --Dalimyr^{(T ≈ C)} 16:06, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Factions Cleanup

Okay, I've been finding some inconsistencies with how the factions are handled on different pages and I'd like to get some ideas for how we might clean them up.

First of all, the Leyawiin Faction (Leyawiin citizens) isn't treated the same way as the other city factions. In the NPC summaries, all of the citizen factions are listed by their Construction Set name (Anvil Citizen, Cheydinhal Citizens, Kvatch citizens, etc.). In the CS, the name for Leyawiin citizens is "Leyawiin Faction," but it's listed on NPC pages as just "Leyawiin." It might seem like a small thing, but I'd like to change these to display as "Leyawiin Faction" for consistency. We try to have everything else match the game data, so we might as well apply it here too.

Another problem I've come across is NPCs who don't start in a faction, but join it at some point during the game. For example, Amusei joins the Thieves Guild after Lost Histories; this is noted in his summary as well as the Thieves Guild page, but not on Factions_T. Similarly, Jeelius joins the Nine Divines faction at some point (I can't discern it from the script), but the only place he's listed as a faction member is the new table on the Nine Divines faction page. I'm guessing there are probably other cases like these as well. I think it would make the most sense to keep these tables as consistent as possible, which means adding the NPCs who join different factions to the Factions subpages, preferably with notes explaining the different conditions.

And while I'm at it, I might as well mention that I found all of this while attempting to clean up that new table on the Nine Divines page...and I'd really like to propose a redesign of these faction members tables. As it stands, they look a little messy--all different lengths, the icons don't line up--and are basically somewhat difficult to read. I'm running through a few different layouts in a sandbox. I haven't completed a version I actually like yet, but I'm working on a few ideas and I could use some feedback.

So...thoughts? –Eshe^talk 18:23, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, there are quite some inconsistencies regarding factions, and it's best if they get sorted out. I for one would like to see that all NPCs of a faction are mentioned in the tables tables, even if they do not start in that faction. I think that works better than them only mentioned a few lines above the table. Of course, it must be mentioned that they don't start in that faction, but I don't see the problem with them being mentioned in that table. I also would like to have all the factions that an NPC belongs to listed in the faction infobox on the NPC's page, even when they don't start in that faction. That would probably lessen the confusion, and can help to avoid edits regarding this problem, such as the recent edits concerning Hieronymus Lex' factions. ^Talk Wolok gro-Barok _{Contributions} 21:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)