Oblivion talk:Crime

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[edit] UNTITLED TOPIC

i need help i have no bounty but when i go to alters it says "repent your crimes wicked one!" anything i needa know?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hazer396 (talk • contribs).

I believe altars also care about your Infamy to Fame ratio. You may want to do some "good" quests to boost your Fame points. --Nephele 01:49, 17 July 2006 (EDT)
If you steal something that costs 1 gold and somebody sees you, your bounty will be a fraction of 1 gold as the formula dictates. The game will round the bounty down to zero if it is less than .50 gold. So that is how it is possible to have a bounty, but see a bounty of zero . 169.145.3.12 14:50, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Avoiding theft during the Mages Guild Recommendations

A previous poster mentionned that there were three cases where theft was required in order to complete the Mages Guild Recommendation quests. However, this is not quite accurate. The three cases I'm assuming we're talking about are:

  • Bruma: You must steal a book from Jeanne Frasoric, the head of the guild. This can be avoided by finding J'skar yourself using Detect Life and then Dispel to get rid of the invisibility.
  • Chorrol: You must give a book to either Earana or Teekeeus, then steal it back and give it to the other one in order to receive both the recommendation and the Finger of the Mountain spell. However, if the spell doesn't interest you, you can just give the book to Teekeeus, get your recommendation, and avoid stealing anything.
  • Bravil: You must steal back Ardaline's Mage's Staff from a house in the Imperial City. I don't know if there's any way to avoid this one.

--TheRealLurlock 13:11, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

Completing the Bravil quest without stealing is easy: Soris Arenim offers to sell you the staff for 200 gold, as long as you raise his disposition high enough. For the Cheydinhal quest, on the other hand, you have to break into Falcar's drawers and take his two black soul gems, which does add 2 counts of stealing to your statistics. That's the one that's difficult to get out of, as far as I know. --Nephele 20:09, 23 October 2006 (EDT)
Two years later, I had to revisit this question while editing the article's section on Stealing. I only left two quests on the page, although three others have been mentioned. For the curious, I figured I would document here all of the quests and why they did or did not get included on the article, in decreasing order of relevance.
  • Cheydinhal Recommendation, 1-2 special Black Soul Gems. Included in article. This is the only Mages Guild quest where stealing is unavoidable (although it's been fixed by UOP)
  • Bruma Recommendation, Jeanne's Manual of Spellcraft. Included in article. Although stealing the book can be avoided, you are explicitly pointed towards stealing the book.
  • Bravil Recommendation, Ardaline's Mages Staff. Not included in article. Kud-Ei gives you Beguile scrolls, so implicitly her recommended method of retrieving the staff is to charm him into giving you the staff.
  • Fingers of the Mountain (Chorrol Recommendation), the book Fingers of the Mountain. Not included in article. If you follow the guildmaster's (Teekeeus') instructions, you get the recommendation without doing any stealing. Stealing the book is only necessary to complete the second, optional, part of the quest.
  • Ambush, the Colossal Black Soul Gem. It only counts as stealing if you pickpocket the soul gem; if you kill Falcar and take the gem, no theft is recorded. Nobody recommends that you pick Falcar's pocket, and it seems somewhat self-evident that someone who wants to avoid theft charges should not be attempting to pick somebody's pocket.
--NepheleTalk 11:16, 12 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Disposition for avoiding bounty

The page mentions that it is possible to avoid paying your bounty by raising the disposition of the gaurd to 100. I tried this after killing several gaurds (bounty between 4k and 6k) with a charm 100 for 3 secs but the gaurd would not help me. Anyone know why?--Vhalantru 23:55, 29 October 2006 (EST)
It might be that your bounty was too high. The guards actually say that they will pay your bounty for you (rather than just dismissing the bounty), so it could be that if your bounty higher than what the guard can afford to pay, the option disappears. Or else it could be that they're not so willing to look the other way when you've killed several of their companions. --Nephele 00:18, 30 October 2006 (EST)
If your bounty is over 1000 gold, the guards will not pay your bounty for you.

[edit] Getting to a doyen

I'm with the thieves guild and once i stole a raspberry by accident and the merchant saw me so a crazy Bruma guard chased me all the way from Bruma to Imperial City where i sat waiting for Armand to come. Too bad i was too early (it was only like..1 in the afternoon?) and the guard chased me all the way down. I think the concept is just stupid, you don't leave tracks in Oblivion, and i was water-walking through the lake around Imperial City. How was the guard supposed to find me? In any case, i couldn't get to Armand in time to pay my fine away, is there a way i can avoid the guards long enough so that i can still get to Armand in time? Like jumping onto a roof and waiting till 12 midnight for Armand, then jump down (with the guard underneath) and get that "Stop right there!" dialogue? I suppose i could just click resist arrest, then talk to Armand and pay the fine. Would the guards ignore me then? Thanks, would appreciate the help.

I've tried this in Bravil, stealing stuff and then running to S'Krivva's house to pay off the bounty. On a rare occasion it will work, and the guards will stop chasing me, but most of the time it doesnt. What usually happens is I pay off the bounty, and the chase music is still playing and guards eventually come into S'krivva's house looking for me. If I yield to them, they dont give me the "pay your fine speech". I get a typical greeting and a normal conversation menu as if everything is fine. When I stop that discussion, the chase music starts again and they try to kill me.169.145.3.12 15:15, 19 May 2008 (EDT)


Well, you can't really "hide" from a guard, but there is a glitch that won't let a guard get to you. If you resist arrest and paralyze the guard and enter a building (from outside) the guard cannot become un-paralyzed (is that a word?) until you go back outside. Also, if you resist arrest and pay the find with Armand, you have to yield (hold block and activate the guard) to the guard and he will say the "Can I help you citizen?" thing. So does this answer your question? Verin Sedai 22:45, 20 November 2006 (EST)

Another way to do this is of course, to pay the fine and break back into the evidence chest in the Bruma (in this case) Castle. Finally, Armand is normally in his house during the day, and while it says you will be trespassing, you actually won't be; guards won't mind and he won't mind. Go into his house and talk to him. Verin Sedai 22:48, 20 November 2006 (EST)

if u have an invisibility spell u can simply resist arrest then go invisiblerun away and FAST TRAVEL to a location (i always go 2 a fort just outside the imp city waterfront) then run off the road and get behind some big rocks (just in case a guard comes past and kills you) wait till about 11:30pm and just swim 2 where armand is there will be no guards!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.71.115.243 (talk • contribs).

If you are fast enough (get naked and drop all heavy objects if absolutely necessary) you can outrun a guard far enough for him to give up chasing you. You will still have a bounty, but once the guard's sword is sheathed, the guard force will no longer chase you down when you approach Armand. This is what I do most of the time since I am fairly fast for a Nord. I prefer swimming to running because it appears to be faster and I don't have to worry about terrain. This is why I prefer resisting arrest in Leyawiin or Bravil.(Gromir the Wasted) 24.2.171.37 23:35, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Disposition at 100?

Well, during the Sanguine quest, I pushed the guard at the door's disposition to just 91 and then he offered to 'pay the fine himself since we were good friends'. My fame isn't 100 points higher than my infamy, so does the disposition really have to be at the dot of 100? You sure it isn't 90?--217.44.154.228 15:44, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Good catch. The requirement is indeed that the Guard's disposition has to be greater than 90 (and your bounty has to be less 1000). --Nephele 00:56, 8 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] It's a tough world

Anytime two or more NPCs start fighting it will not stop until someone is dead. Has anyone ever witnessed a NPC yielding to the guards, or anyone else for that matter? Kind of silly when a Mythic dawn agents summons his gear, gets attacked by both guards and townsfolk and when he is dead the guards will also dispose of townsfolks that attacked the agent...

Nope. Guards kill anyone with a bounty on their head, and the civilians either fight back or run away, but never get jailed. I also think it's interesting how the guards psychically know you're about to be attacked when the agent is just looking at you threateningly. --Darkheart 15:48, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Questions about theiving and spells

(moved from Oblivion Talk:Oblivion) Hey, is it at all possible to steal a NPC's armor that they are wearing without killing them by, say, forcing them into bound armor? --Ordon Crane 20:05, 16 November 2007 (EST)

In theory, yes. Reverse-pickpocketing zero-weight armor such onto them and waiting for them to wear it will mean their other armor becomes available to steal from their inventory. Tricky to do though. --Rpeh•T•C•E• 04:06, 17 November 2007 (EST)
Many armored NPCs will remove their armor when they sleep. You can steal it from them then.--Kandarin 02:41, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Stolen Items

Moved this from main article to talk page:
Sometimes, it seems that some of the items you have stolen will be reverted to non-stolen, ie. the little red hand will disappear and they cannot be fenced towards the guild's "Independent Thievery" quest.

"Sometimes" makes it a very weak statement. This seems like something that is very hard to verify or disprove. --Timenn < talk > 02:57, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Well. The way I have had it happen is the following : One walks into someplace during a stealing spree, and pickpockets someone who subsequently detects the pickpocketing attempt. So they wake up and say, for example : "You have overstayed your welcome, friend." So leave in a hurry, and the guards will come to you. The usual talk is done. Pay the fine (should be about 25 - 50 gold, if I recall correctly) and you will respawn in front of the prison. Go back in, and loot the evidence chest. I do not know exactly what is causing it, but about half of the time, in my case, the game does not recognize the items as stolen anymore. Neohaven 03:10, 16 January 2008 (EST)User:Neohaven

[edit] I broke out of jail and now....

I Broke out of jail in anvil and took my items back and now it tells me they are all stolen, so the only way i am aware of making them authentic is by selling them to a fence and then buying them back which would be fine buy i have alot of items and i probably cant pay to get them back and not all the items will be able to be bought back... can anyone help out? Anyone know another way around selling items to a fence and then buying them back to make them authentic?

You could try serving your time instead of breaking out. I'm not certain it'll work but it might be worth a try. If not, you'll at least get a boost in mercantile skill for buying and selling your goods, plus a lot of gold for the Independent Thievery quest! –Rpeh•T•C•E• 03:33, 16 February 2008 (EST)
Well now you have to reload a game save to when you were in jail, before you "stole" your items back and then serve your time. (if you serve your time after you stole the items back, then, well they count as stolen and will never be given back until you steal them back again..).--TrUeSnIpE Z 20:33, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

I FOUND THE ANSWER: OK well i know exactly how to fix this i just tried it and you may try it as well... i was getting really mad at my game for this because it has a problem and doesn't save so i couldn't load back to not break out of jail.. well i stole my items back and it kinda did this so... i took a useless item like ***lock picks*** since i have the skeleton key and they are usually pretty cheap anyhow. so i went to jail and did my time and got my lock picks back *** turns out what you did not already steal in the first place does not already count as stolen so you will get it back when you come out :D and if you don't believe me try it will lock picks or some spoons or what not.

[edit] NPC commited crimes

Recently I noticed that some NPCs steal items for some reason, people yell at them, guards come and walk away, and it got me all paranoid when one of the bums in Waterfront said people around there pickpocket so I'm just wondering if NPCs can pickpocket you.58.175.80.19 05:35, 16 February 2008 (EST)

NPCs will only steal items on plain view - they certainly won't ever pick the player's pocket. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 06:23, 16 February 2008 (EST)
NPCs only steal when looking for items during the Find and Eat AI packages. If they have no food on them, and cannot find any non-owned food around, they will steal food laying out in the open, or they will find another NPC with food and attempt to steal it. Once they have targeted food in another NPC's inventory you cannot drop food on the ground for them to take because they will keep targeting the NPC until they reevaluate their AI package. The NPC can get away with the theft if their sneak skill is high enough. If they get caught they will be killed if they do not have the money to pay off the fine when the guards reach them. The NPC's crimegold rating will go up by 25 when they are caught pickpocketing, and it will go up by the value of the item when they steal something out in the open. It should be noted that even if they steal an item with zero value (like Big Head stealing forks), the guards will still come to collect money off them. Since their crimegold rating doesn't get reset they will have to pay their fine all over again even though it didn't go up any. You can see this behavior with Shameer on Tamika's Vineyard around 11am or 7pm. If you want to try and save their life there are some things you can do. Pick pocket the target NPC first, and then put food on the ground or in a nearby container. The thief NPC will reevaluate their AI package, and then find the next nearest food. If the NPC has unlimited food (like Bernadette Peneles who is a target of Shameer at 11am) then there is no way for you to stop the theft by stealing food from the target NPC. Instead you can avoid it by immediately waiting until after the Eat package is finished (usually two hours), fast traveling, casting command humanoid and taking them to another location, or if they are far enough away from the guards they will get a crimegold rating but it won't be high enough for guards to approach them when they get closer to town. You can always bribe them before hand to give them enough money to pay their fine. If you don't have the option to bribe them because their disposition is 100 you can cast command humanoid on them, strike them a couple times with a weapon, and then when command humanoid runs out their disposition will be at or near zero. You can have a little fun with this by pick pocketing the target NPC, taking all their food, and then giving them a Poison Apple. The thief NPC will keep targeting the same NPC since they still have food, and will take and eat the Poison Apple. A somewhat bad side effect of an NPC getting caught is that the target NPC will go into "This NPC has already caught you" mode, and you will not be able to pick pocket them for 24 hours even though you weren't the person who got caught. NPCs will never target you for pick pocket. --Shalley303 11:14, 17 February 2008 (EST)
Nice research :) I think a lot of that information would be useful in the article (perhaps also with a reference at Oblivion:Disposition), if you'd like to figure out a way to incorporate it. Feel free to ask if you have questions about how to do it! --NepheleTalk 13:27, 17 February 2008 (EST)
I did some more testing on this and have discovered that NPCs need twice as much money as their crimegold value in order to not get attacked. It also doesn't look like they get hit for the value of the item they stole, and they get to keep the item. I gave 150 gold to Shameer. Shameer had a crimegold value of 25 after being caught. The nearby guard ran up to him, and then walked away. After that Shameer had 100 gold, but his crimegold value remained at 25. I reloaded and gave him a crimegold value of 50 before his pickpocket. After he got caught his crimegold value was 75. After the guard ran up to him and then walked away Shameer had zero gold. I saved immediately before the pick pocket, and then gradually increased his Sneak skill value and reloaded until he wasn't caught. He was caught every time at 99, but was never caught with a Sneak skill of 100.
I also did some testing in IC. I gave a beggar 10,000 gold, and then set their crimegold rating to 500. This is the minimum amount of crimegold needed to make the guards run up to the beggar without her having committed a crime. However since her crimegold value did not get reset to zero after paying the fine the guard would walk away and then immediately run back to her. Eventually her 10,000 gold was gone, and the guards attacked and killed her. I kept pick pocketing her during this to make sure that she was losing money. She lost 1,000 gold every time the guard ran up to her.
The player's crimegold value gets reset to zero by scripts and dialog options when you perform actions to reduce it (go to jail, pay fine, thieves guild, or friendly guards). Since the actions between the guards and other NPCs are not scripted, the functions to reset their crimegold never get called. It is possible that an NPC who gets caught stealing too many times will eventually get to the point where guards will constantly ask them for money. They will then quickly run out of money and be attacked. Though I don't think there is any way this can happen in normal game play since the thief will run out of money long before they can get caught that many times.
There doesn't seem to be a way to fix this since the interaction between the guard and NPC is built into the game, and not handled by objects and scripts that can be changed in the construction editor. There are some ways I think you could work around this with mods.
  1. Make a mod that increases all gold in the game so that lower class citizens have hundreds of gold for which to pay off their fines. This has the negative effect of making gold in the game even more useless. You could limit your modifications to the LL0NPCGoldLowerClass object since only NPCs in the lower class should be stealing food.
  2. Make every NPC in the game have a sneak rating of 100 since this skill won't effect your game play. That has the downside of taking away a neat part of the game in that an NPC can be caught in the first place. You won't be able to edit the Sneak skill for NPCs who are level offset against the player, but you could create a spell ability that fortifies Sneak by 100 and assign it to every NPC. This would act just like a birth sign for all NPCs, and this way you aren't messing with economics or directly editing skill values.
  3. Make a mod to give all NPCs some food item. This would be a huge undertaking with little payoff.
  4. It may be possible to edit all of the Guard scripts to do something with the begin OnAlarm function. However I am not sure how they would get the target reference. If they could get a target reference you could reprogram the guard functionality to take their gold of equal value to reference.crimegold, reset reference.crimegold to zero, and then stop the process of trying to arrest them. This is how the game should behave anyway.
Thanks Nephele. I am not sure what pages would need this kind of info, and do not need any sort of credit for it. If you would like to just cut-and-paste any valuable infomation into other wiki entries then feel free. :] --Shalley303 19:29, 17 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Mod for NPC's

Is there a (trustable) mod that allows an NPC to yield to a guard for a crime they can pay the fine for? I dont like that guards kill an NPC for stealing an apple, since I want that infamy point at some time.. - Korunox 08:07, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Not sure if it's precisely what you are looking for, but I understand that the next/latest version of Reneer's Guard Overhaul allows NPCs to go to jail for crimes. --Gaebrial 03:31, 22 February 2008 (EST)
Okay.. Does the NPC in question go to jail for the time the player would go to jail for that crime, or do they just re-appear after a short while? It would be crappy if the NPC you need is in jail for the next few years after killing a Mythic Dawn agent and after that killing 3 guards before yielding. (would be realistic, but some things shouldn't be real) - Korunox 06:45, 22 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Containers

Does anyone know off-hand how often, if ever, the evidence chest re-spawns? For example if a person makes a jail-break and doesn't grab all the stuff out of the container, how long will it stay there? --Alaston

If I'm looking at the CS correctly (Editor ID StolenGoods, Name Evidence), it doesn't respawn at all. So basically, your stuff should stay there until you go and get it back. --Eshetalk15:13, 22 February 2008 (EST)
Thank you for looking into that, Eshe. I'm on a 360 and can't view the code. I appreciate it. --Alaston

[edit] Why can't I pay my bounty?

I was arrested and broke out. Ever since when guards approach me there is no option to pay my fines, even though I have more than enough money. What's the deal? Also, what is the formula for time served relative to the bounty? I've had to leave bodies in every town I show face in and my bounty's around 70,000 now. I could be looking at years! 68.166.69.89 14:15, 7 March 2008 (EST)

For the time question: One day per hundred gold, no more than ten days, no less than one. As for the other question.. I think after a certain amount of bounty is reached you can't pay it off, even if you have the money, but I'm not certain where I got that from, so grain of salt. -Dan 9410 16:35, 7 March 2008 (EST)
Maybe you didnt have enough money in the first place? Just serve your time and it will go away.--TrUeSnIpE Z 20:42, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
Once you get 5,000+ Bounty, you lose the option to pay it off. Raise a Guard's Disposition to 90+ or use a Thieves Guild Doyen. --Debatra 17:41, 27 November 2008 (EST)
I had a huge bount for jailbreaking a ton of times (i got a kick out of it :D ) and always grabbed my items and gold, eventually i payed the fine, it was over 100,000 (it was one of my "zen" charecters as i call them) i dont think theres a cap on the amount, but killed one guard, resisted arrest and tried to pay the fine, and the option didnt even show —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.193.9.41 (talk • contribs) on 17 November 2009.

[edit] Quest Items

Alright so I have items like Umbra, Boots of Springheel Jak, Fork of Horripilation, etc. that are considered quest items even though I've finished whatever quest they belong to (so I can't get rid of them). I went to jail and they were all removed, but when I got my stuff back at the evidence chest they were not in my inventory anymore? Is there any way to keep them, or do I just have to avoid going to jail in the first place? Also, my Fork is stolen, so if I pay my bounty will it be confiscated even if it's a quest item? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.175.45.50 (talk • contribs).

Guess what? We actually write the articles so that the information is provided in the articles, where people can read it and find out the answers without having to post questions on the talk page. Which is why in the section Go To Jail it says:
Breaking out of jail has one significant glitch: no quest items will be returned to you from the Evidence Chest. Therefore any quest items you had in your inventory will be permanently lost if you break out of jail (and you cannot stash them elsewhere for safekeeping before being arrested). The only way to get the quest items back is to go to jail again, and this time serve your sentence; the quest items will then reappear.
--NepheleTalk 11:31, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Shivering Crime

Guess what? I went to jail in Shivering Isles, where you have no choice but to break out of the jail. There is NO option of serving your time to get your stuff back. And when I left the prison I still didn't get my stuff back. 64.175.45.50 20:23, 27 April 2008 (PST)

Details on crime in the Isles are here. You don't get an option to serve your time - the punishment is that you have to survive the dungeon. There is a chest near the exit of the prison that contains your stuff - you can take it back from there. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 04:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Murder addition?

Somewhere along the line I noticed that I had picked up four murders in my journal. One of them (killing the Grey Prince) I was aware of and was appropriately contacted by LaChance. I assume the other three were for jumping the gun on combat in the "Siren's Deception" quest, but that's just a guess. At some later point in time, I happened to run into Hieronymus Lex and got an odd comment from him about not wanting to talk to someone with blood on their hands. I immediately checked my bounty (zero) and Infamy (also zero) and checked Lex's disposition (mid-80's due to high Fame and boosted Personality), but could find no immediate cause for that comment aside from the four murders in my journal. This had zero effect on gameplay, but was odd enough to file away for checking out later. Anyone feel like filling me in and possibly adding it to the "Murder" section, if appropriate?Marstinson 21:29, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Dude I get that sometimes from those guys,and i got 130 fame,no infamy!It is just a random comment they say if you have killed someone before.I killed one of the Sirens when the attacked me and the Khajit one called out Murder! Just a random comment they make like greetings magister(Battlemage) even if u are not apart of the mages guild and are meeting Tar-meena for main quest. --Prince of Madness 00:05, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

It's a guard dialogue, triggered by the presence of murders in your journal, detected or not. Even if you have no infamy and no bounty, it will still come up. 82.13.216.194 19:08, 12 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] NPCs that take their stolen goods back

Ive noticed that certain NPCs that catch you stealing from them will come after you and take their stolen goods back. In Bruma, if you go in to Alga's house, try stealing a couple of items while she is there and then let her catch you stealing something. She will walk over to you and move her hand towards you as many times as items of hers appear in your inventory. It is not an agressive movement - it is more like a touching movement. Each touch is accompanied by the 'unequip' sound.

I also noticed something similar with an orc I pickpocketed in Lleyawin. I pickpocketed one item successfully, then tried again a couple of seconds later and got caught. He came over and took from me the item of his I already had.

Does this work with all NPCs or just some?169.145.3.12 15:05, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Yeah! I've been meaning to put this up before! I've done this with Manheim Maulhand and Varnado, they both take any stolen items back from you. Kinda weird, but realistic, I guess -Dan 9410 16:18, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
all NPC's do that, maybe not in shivering isles, i have the game of the year edition, but havent been to shivering isle. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.193.9.41 (talk • contribs) on 17 November 2009.

[edit] I know how to escape when you choose Resist Arrest

Hi, I'm writting this cause in the main page you said that, when you Resist Arrest, you'll eventually need to go to jail or pay the money. Well, I've found a way to avoid that. Perhaps you're aware of it, or perhaps they deleted it in some of the patches (I'm playing version 1.0) so please enlighten me as to why this method doesn't appear anywhere ^^

I have posted it in the main page, but I'll like to write it here as well:

"There's one way to resist arrest and get away without going to jail or paying money. First, click on the resist arrest option, and afterwards use an Invisibility or 100% Chameleon spell. Now, the guards won't chase you for the duration of the spell. Now comes the most tricky part of it: while you're invisible (that is, during the duration of the spell), find a spot where nobody would see you even if you weren't invisible, and stay there in sneak mode until your spell effect expires. As soon as the spell finishes, the guards will start coming to attack you again, but that doesn't matter: BEFORE THEY CAN SEE YOU AGAIN (that is, before the eye in sneak mode lights up) you must use the invisibility spell again... and this time, you'll be free, and even when the spell expires they won't chase after you. Indeed, the trick consists on becoming invisible when nobody can see you: this way, the guards stop chasing after you, and you've succesfully resisted the arrest without any penalties of any kind.

  • On a side note, the only drawback of this method is that your bounty still counts. So, the next time you do something illegal, you'll have BOTH bounties, the one you escaped from and the one you've just acquired. Anyway that's not a problem, cause you can't simply escape again using the same method."


  • If they have 100 depistion(?) towards you they pay the bounty for u.Just a heads up. --Prince of Madness 00:07, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Oblivion: Metal Gear Solid Style

Okay, here is a scenario that I recently had occur.

First-off, I resisted arrest by a jailor in Leyawiin (pickpocketed him and got discovered). He ended up chasing me into a dead end, so I had to kill him out of self-defense. He was the only one there because nobody came to assist him, and also my first murder (I avoid murdering people when I play Gromir). So I high-tailed it out of there, and out of the city itself, a giant mob of angry guards following close behind.

[The order of events in my head is messed up, as I love causing chaos with the guards. There may have been another event in this story where I did the insane and ran boldy into the quarters (I had no other choice), stole Adharji's Ring in plain sight, got some guards on my tail, picked into Adharji's house, slipped it to her, and high-tailed it out of Leyawiin with a pack of angry guards hot on my trail.]

I ran and swam all around the nearby swamp to lose the remaining guards chasing me. Once they were gone, I went to a vampire fort, contracted Porphyric Hemophilia, and had to run the hell out of there. Since I did NOT want Gromir to become a vampire, I realised I had to pay off the bounty to find a cure. I slept at a nearby camp to raise my level, had Lachance visit me in the night (rapist).

I remembered there was a secret entrance into Bruma (It's in the Bruma caverns, which are a wee bit north of the city, leads to Jearl's basement), so I decided to go there (This is when I had a PS3 crash detailed on another page, but that's not important). Snuck into the caverns out of Jearl's house, and was happy to see that Ongar's house was just across the street! I fenced some stuff off to Ongar, and got money to pay off my bounty to Armand.

Now, here is the critical point of the story. Oblivion turned into Metal Gear Solid. I had to sneak around town to avoid the guards, because as soon as they saw me, they arrested me. (Really kind of a shame since Bruma is Gromir's home town)

I went to the Waterfront on foot (by way of Lake Rumare, the city's under too tight surveillance), paid off my bounty to Armand, and everybody lived happily ever after. The guards were no longer on the lookout for me, and I could run wherever I pleased again.

Here is the question. Sneaking around Bruma with the guards looking out for me was fun. I want to do it again, but I don't know what factor causes the guards to arrest you upon sight, even if you have already resisted arrest and fled from them. What is this factor?

(Gromir the Wasted) 24.2.171.37 00:26, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

If your bounty is 1000 or higher the guards will attack on sight. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 03:57, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
Ah! Thank you! (Gromir the Wasted)24.2.171.37 12:16, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Xbox 360 Go to Jail Glitch

It appears that you cannot sleep off your bounty by going to jail when playing on the 360. I have tried this on multiple 360's and with a patched version of the original game as well as the GOTY version. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 169.145.3.13 (talk • contribs).

If you attempt to sleep while incarcerated after choosing the "Go To Jail" option given to you from a guard, the game will freeze. You can sleep at any other time in the game without problem.169.145.3.13 09:19, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Is your disk scratched at all? I have never seen this happen on the 360 version.--Volanaro 09:23, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
Not scratched. Again, this has happened with multiple 360s and multiple copies of the game. I get the 'Do you just want to serve your time prompt', answer 'yes', and the screen freezes. Most recently this happened in the Arnora's amulet quest. Go ahead and try it.75.198.214.243 00:59, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
Update - Try to sleep in the bed nearest the cell door in Jorundr's cell and your screen will freeze. I just tried the other bed in the same cell and that bed worked.
Perhaps I shouldnt have made a sweeping statement about a supposed game-wide sleep glitch for the 360 because I havent tried going to jail in every city. Besides Bruma, I have only been to jail in the Imperial city early in the game before I was in the Thieves Guild, and the same thing happened to me there with a screen freeze.75.198.214.243 01:24, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
I "went ahead and tried it" (even though after many many hours of gameplay on a Xbox 360 I don't recall having any problems specifically with sleeping off bounties). I tried both beds in Jorunder's cell twice; I tried both beds in the Chorrol cell. And my screen didn't ever freeze. So whatever you're describing is not a universal problem that occurs on all Xbox 360s. --NepheleTalk 02:02, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
Yes, I have been sent to jailin every city multiple times and was able to sleep it off. I have the GOTY version as well. I think your over-exagerating--Kaito 06:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Trespassing

How exactly do I get a Trespass to register on the achievements page? I still have "Trespasses: 0" despite breaking into houses (red icon) and being told by the owner that I'd better leave now. Then, nothing really happens. What do I need to do for the game to register it as a trespass? Thanks. --Thlayli 23:23, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

I can't trigger this either, even opening a red-icon door right in front of a guard. I get arrested for Trespassing, but no Trespassing increases occur in my stats. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 15:11, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
I guess it only works if you're tresspassing and get caught, but ignore their warnings until they call the guards. --Darth NANAME 18:42, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
Even then, it wouldn't work! I waited, let myself get arrested and everything. There seemed to be absolutely nothing I could do (PC version, BTW) that would change my "Trespasses" entry to anything but 0. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 18:51, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
I do not understand why I do not get a trespassing marked on my page, I mean I do break into peoples houses and let them spot me, but it does not work. Do we know when this stopped happening, because I remember getting a couple trespasses on my 360 before they released the patch for the reference bug, but now it seems like I can't. --Chibiace 13:25, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

(the following few comments were originally posted at Oblivion_talk:Keys#Trespassing but have been moved here to combine two identical discussions)

I've opened and trespassed with Arvena Thelas' Key, Gogan's House Key, Inventius Key, Jesan Sextius' Key, and several others in Anvil. I've been waiting until midnight so the door is red but they're still awake - however I don't receive a bounty or a point in Trespass in the Misc stat page. They yell at me, but never call the guards. Is there really a trespass crime (searching the wiki only comes up with 9 other pages, none with the info)?--Haama 19:28, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

Not that this note is really constructive, but I have never been able to raise the Trespasses counter myself. I have tried letting NPCs detect me, and even getting arrested for wandering around in the Castle's Private Quarters, but they don't seem to do it. --Timenn < talk > 10:23, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
I have tested it in the south watch tower in Imperial City (the one where you need to get the tax papers in Untaxing the Poor) and on the second and third floor, the guards got angry at me for standing there and, after waiting, arrested me. This was not quest related- at time of testing, Untaxing the Poor was not active. I've also tested this in the guard quarters in the Imperial Prison area, and I got the same response there. However, I have not been able to get a regular (non-guard) NPC to call the guards on me or attack me for trespassing. I'll keep on testing with regular NPC's with a new (clean of fame and faction benefits) character. M'aiqM'aiq thinks talk serves no purpose. 07:01, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
I just tried a couple of other things. First, I waited in Skingrad's Hammer and Tongs until after 8pm. No amount of waiting would cause Agnete to even warn me about trespassing. Next, I left the store and broke back in. This time she warned me twice and then attacked. Yielding worked but she would attack me again immediately. When I left the store and yielded she went away peacefully but I still didn't have a mark on the Trespassing stat. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 10:51, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
Are all of these being tested on the PC version, or have any of you ever tried the PS3 or Xbox? Because if all of them are PC, then it's possible it's just a glitch in that medium. I'll have to test this out on my 360 tomorrow to see if it works for me. I've had people call the guards on me before for trespassing, but I've never checked my stats page to see if it registered. TexasWatermelon 02:36, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
All that testing was on the PC. If you can find and document a situation in which the guards are called, that's great. If you can get your trespassing stat to increase - even better! –Rpeh•T•C•E• 03:27, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
So I tested this out today on my 360, picking locks on in several different cities, and as far as I can tell, you can get arrested for trespassing. However, it doesn't register on the miscellaneous stats page. No matter how many times I got arrested, my Trespasses still said 0. I even broke into the guard barracks in the Imperial City Prison and all I got was a five dollar fine. I also broke into the private quarters of Castle Chorol, but all the guard did was yell at me until I picked a lock right in front of his face and then he arrested me. Still no trespasses. I don't know if there's some certain thing you have to do, or if it just doesn't work, but it seems to me that trespasses don't register on the stats screen. TexasWatermelon Sit and chat by the TexasWatermelon Patch 15:31, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
The stats for trespassing is broken. I broke into every single house/basement/private quarters that is available at the start of the game, and my trespassing stat still says 0. The upcoming new version of the Unofficial Oblivion Patch (3.0.2) will be fixing this. Bamspeedy 18:26, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Updates to Punishment section

Please see the talk page on Oblivion talk:Infamy#Bounty and Guards. I updated the sections and information in response to the 500 gold bounty limit for arrest-on-sight. — OranL 14:09, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Missing A Crime

If you go into a shop or house and grab, but not steal an object, you get a bounty of 1 gold, which is not on the main page.

67.87.134.255 13:44, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

Yes it is: "Stealing occurs when you pick up (or grab) an item with a red icon it," –Rpeh•T•C•E• 00:52, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
    • "pick up", is not very explicit. I think most people would assume this means, "to place into one's inventory". Why can I read a book in the store without problem, but if I "grab" it to shift it aside I will be called a thief? It wouldn't hurt to clarify this on the main page.

[edit] Assault Section

User Webdemon00 added this to the Assault Section. I don't know how accurate the information is, but it's poorly written and hard to read. I reverted his edit and copied it all here. --Mike | Contrib 22:57, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

The game's defintion of "the most thoroughly evil NPC" automatically excludes all living Humans, Elves, Orcs, Khajits, and Argonians regardless of their seemingly evil associations or nature; (e.g. Dark Brotherhood, Necromancers, Mythic Dawn etc.) and lack of human like appearance or bebavior (e.g. Naked Argonian Tribesmen, Vampires and Goblin Jim) therefore, the only NPCs you can sneak attack/kill without 'assaulting' are the Dremoras. Re-animated, or cloned NPCs although may not be evil or hostile bit sine they aren't alive or real attacking them won't count as an assault.
More importantly; attacking any NPC; hostile/evil or not (other than Dremora) before they notice your presense is considered an assault. And using spells that absorb/drain speed, or poison that damage it would be an 'assault' if you attack them the second time despite you standing right in front of them and they had assaulted you first.
Also note that friendly NPCs can mistakenly hit you dozens of times but if you hit them back, it's an assault. A city guard who is tryig to kill you because you chose to resist arrest; is not commiting any crimes, yet even if you don't fight back or withdraw your weapon; if you reflect damage/spell; that's an 'assault..' And if they die from the damage/spell you reflected; that's 'assault plus 'murder.'
If you cast a command spell on a creature while a guard was trying to kill it; you will receive a bounty since the creature will naturally try to defend themselves and atack the guard. Again an 'assault'

[edit] "Items Stolen" on stats page

I've been role-playing the game as a white mage - nothing dishonest. So I have never knowingly stolen anything (ie with a red marker); nothing has shown up in my inventory with a red marker; and I've never been unable to sell anything to honest traders. I have zero infamy, and I'm not even in the Thieves Guild. And I'm only Level 11 (so it's not late in the game).

But my Stats page says I've stolen 868 items !

Can anybody tell me what gives? Presumably it's too late to correct this?

I'm playing game of the year edition on Xbox 360.

Pedro666 14:29, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Have you done the quest Paranoia in Skingrad yet? The gold you can get at the end as a reward counts as stolen if you collect it from the basket in Glarthirs House, even though he promised you it anyway. I had that happen to me too. - Iostream 11:37, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

For what it's worth, I've had a similar occurance. Prior to starting The Hist quest for the Fighters Guild, my stolen items stat was 200 some (Character is a do gooder High Elf with a case of Kleptomania :D ). After completing the quest, I went back to the Blackwood Co. HQ, looted the corpses and cleaned the place out taking everything except items with 0 value. None of the items or containers showed the red icon. Also nothing I took showed the red hand in my inventory and I was able to sell them to normal merchants. Some time later, I noticed that my stolen items stat showed 1283! Playing 1.2 PC download version from D2D.

Mike 87.144.197.213 05:54, 14 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Sheep Hunting

I fireballed a sheep outside Skingrad and got a 0.5 bounty but, I struck a sheep in about 100 feet of a guard in Skingrad with no problem. Why did I get a bounty? Helper Unknown

The guard can't have seen you the second time but something (quite possible another sheep!) saw you the first time. Just a guess. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 11:26, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
Sorry for the confusion, the sheep+guard thing happened first and when I hit the other sheep outside people said "Stop! Thief!". Also if it's important I have Open Cities Helper Unknown 11:44, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
This is very simillar to the horse glitch in that I hit a creature and get a bounty for stealing and the bounty is (I'm quite sure) 0.5 because it doesn't show up in my stats page but it's a bounty of 1 with the guards. Helper Unknown 16:35, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Cleanup Tag

I added the cleanup tag - this article is too long, has unverified information, and repeats some information unnecessarily. If you have anything to contribute, or feel that it's not needed, I welcome your input. --Mike | Contrib 22:57, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

I'd agree with you. The trouble is this article is one of those to which everybody likes to add their own little tips. If you want to do the cleanup yourself, feel free! –Rpeh•T•C•E• 00:59, 4 September 2008 (EDT)
Okay, I'm going to take a crack at reorganizing and rewriting this page. I don't know how long it will take, but I've got some time to kill. --Mike | Contrib 12:31, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

[edit] impossible to kill a guard without getting a bounty: Contradition

Sentence 1:

It is impossible to kill a guard without getting a bounty: even sneak attacks using 100% Chameleon with no other witnesses will result in a murder bounty.

Sentence 2:

NOTE: Guards can be killed without incurring a bounty, by killing them in a non-public place (when you are considered to be trespassing), even if there are witnesses.

I am removing the second sentence, please clarify if you add it back. Travb 13:30, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

I don't know if it's just a problem with the disc or what, but it's damn near impossible for me to kill ANY guard without getting a bounty. Even if I Sneak Attack one-shot him, with 100% Chameleon and not a living thing in the area (apparently, animals can "report" you too...), I still somehow get a bounty! It makes the Dark Brotherhood quest to wipe out the Draconis family impossible to do without getting in trouble (even if I get the perfect undetected kill in her room when no one else is there). Felindre 15:30, 6 December 2008 (EST)

Note: there are a few ways to kill guards without a bounty go into the nearest guard barracks get rid of all food that they eat and drop 'poisoned apples' as many as you want (enough so the guards will eat them) then sit back and watch the guards die and you can get there items and run away bounty free.

i find the easiest way is get a 100%chameleon suit, go into the barrak where a guard is standing by walking around and go to a sleeping guard, go sneak mode, make sure u can kill the guard in one shot, when the guard walking around either goes downstairs or isnt looking, kill the sleeping guard. also, jailors are easier to kill with this technique 122.193.9.41 11:02, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Non-consistent number

I've found a minor inconsistancy. In the Punishment section under "Getting arrested", it says, "...the guards will not try to arrest you on sight unless your bounty is greater than or equal to 500 gold." However, in the Punishment section under "Resist arrest", it says, "If your bounty is greater than 1000, they will attack you upon sight." Does anybody know which amount is the correct one?

I think it means that they won't chase you telling you to go to jail if your bounty is less than 500 gold, and if your bounty is greater than 1000 gold, they will chase you and attack you, not just send you to jail. C Teng [talk] 23:24, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
No, it's a mistake. Both numbers mean the same thing and both should be 1000. Now fixed. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 03:56, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
As far as I know, they should both be 500, as previously discussed here. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 18:52, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Murder Details

In revamping the murder section, I've deleted two sections of text.

Murders are not recorded if the NPC dies from:
  1. a physical damage done by a single blow, (Not from the weapon's enchantments or poisons applied to it),
  2. with no other witnesses, and
  3. the NPC was never aware of your presence (was struck from the rear),and
  4. the amount of lighting around your character is dimmer/darker than where the NPC fell and died.
In case of using poisons, if you remain undetected even after you've struck the NPC, and before he/she dies from the effect of your poison, you can fast travel else where and the murder is not recorded. But keep in mind, poisoned apples, lowering the disposition of a NPC to assault you first etc. are not technically "murders".

Frankly, I don't fully understand either paragraph. The first paragraph looks like the requirements for a murder, but it claims to be the requirements to not get a murder. What about these circumstances changes a murder into a non-murder? How was the lighting level objectively evaluated? In the second paragraph, why is fast travel required? Based on my experience, a death caused by poison is not a murder, regardless of what else happens. Furthermore, these paragraphs were accompanied by additional statements that I know to be false (i.e., supposed dialogue changes from merchants). Nevertheless, on the chance that someone else can make sense out of the paragraphs, I moved the information here. --NepheleTalk 16:26, 12 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Murder Infamy

The infamy point from a murder is from the bounty, Infamy comes with a bounty above 500 -- carlw1993

Good point. Thanks. --NepheleTalk 23:40, 27 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Just re-did the whole page

Yesterday I tried my hand at shortening the Mercantile page, and the "too long" tag was removed shortly thereafter. So I decided to give this page a shot. Take a look, and see if you like it. I know I do, but that's a given =p

I felt like the quests that involved stealing were a bit much, as the page is addressing a large topic already, and there are enough quests that involve stealing to, if someone wanted to, create a page devoted to it, or add it into one of the roleplaying pages, rather than here. As that information doesn't apply to everyone who is committing a crime in the game, and just to those who are trying to NOT commit crimes, it seems like the wrong place to put it. Chunk of ham 03:00, 14 January 2009 (EST)

The information about required stealing for quests belongs somewhere (multiple readers have looked for this information in the past), and currently multiple other pages point other readers specifically to the Crime article for that information. Therefore, I don't think it should be deleted from this article unless it is instead included somewhere else and the other links to this information are all updated. Similarly, some other discussions of the details of crimes are not covered anywhere else. Furthermore, a number of incorrect facts were introduced in the edits
  • "If your crosshairs are red": the crosshairs never turn red, but instead the hand/door/book/etc icon
  • Assault... "only applies to NPCs in towns or on roads, generally": attacks on nearly any NPC can be an assault under the right conditions
--NepheleTalk 03:02, 18 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Question

In the article it says that when an NPC dies all items in its inventory become public property. Can this be used to remove stolen item tags from zero weight items with reverse pickpocketing? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.87.133.199 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Evidence Chest oddity

Okay, so I was doing the Two Sides of the Coin quest, and I went to jail with Jorundr. Unusually for me, I decided to try to sneak out with very low sneak skills and got extremely lucky with all the guards having their backs turned at the same time. When I retrieved all my stuff from the Evidence Chest, however, all of it became marked as stolen except some quest items and a few other oddball things, I think. Is this normal, either on its own or with the UOP? I almost never actually try to sneak out, so it's possible I've just never done this before, but I don't remember ever having had this happen, and I'm sure I've snuck out of jail once or twice before. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 22:33, 29 March 2009 (EDT)

I have seen several topics about this on this page. As far as I can figure out, anything you take from the evidence chest is flagged as stolen. This means, if you break out, get arrested and serve your sentance normally you can only get your items back (Possibily excluding quest items)by stealing them again. (Note: It may only occur in certain jails) 58.178.58.104 08:08, 19 April 2009 (EDT)

This actually makes sense, because in real life, while you're in jail, all your personal belongings temporarily belong to the police. Don't believe me, ask a cop next time you see one. "Officer, just out of curiosity, if you're breaking out of jail, is it also illegal to take your belongings that were confiscated?"
"Hell yeah, it's stealing!"Dstebbins 20:38, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Poison and Enchantments

Although this might be mentioned somewhere, if you strike someone with a weapon with a poison/enchantment that does damage, will it only give a bounty of 40 if it is the enchantment that kill it. Also can anyone answer this with answers for both duration and sudden damage effects? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dadrak (talk • contribs) on 11 April 2009.

This is covered in the section on Murder. --NepheleTalk 18:49, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Stolen Gold

Is it flagged as stolen, even if I can't see it? I've never paid attention to see if I lose more gold than I'm supposed to when I'm arrested. --Darkheart 15:56, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

No. Gold is one thing people can't spot as being stolen. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 06:34, 10 May 2009 (EDT)
If you go up the page a bit it says that the 800 gold in glarthirs house counts as stolen —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.43.207.195 (talk • contribs).
Yes, gold counts as stolen, but stolen gold isn't flagged as such, and so isn't removed when you are arrested. --Gaebrial 06:11, 29 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] No Red Icons

I seem to have lost the ability to actually "steal" items. Whenever I go into someone's home, even if the entrance door icon was red, I am free to take whatever I want from their homes. There are no read "stealing" icons. It's like being in a guild hall. Has anyone else encountered this, and does anyone know how I can fix it back? 64.85.248.133 14:46, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Try taking items in front of witnesses and see if you get a bounty anyway. It could be a display glitch. Is there free pickpocketing too? And how many and which houses have you tried this in?--Darkheart 15:43, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
Well after further investigation it seems the incidence of this has gone down. Now only Francois Mottierre doesn't care. I can take every item in his house and he doesn't mind. (Humourously, I can steal stuff from Vilena Donton's house in front of her son and he says he didn't see a thing). I've tried several houses in Chorrol, but now except for Mottierre everything seems back to normal. 64.85.248.133 16:01, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
You can take all items from Motierre's house for free. It is mentioned here. Wolok gro-Barok 16:25, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Plants

I have an idea. I know that taking a potted Nirnroot is not a crime, but taking ingredients (as in the thing you eat), is. So I'm thinking that stealing a plant is not a crime. Helper Unknown 21:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

What exactly are you referring to? --Elliot(T-C) 21:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Serving your time without using the bedroll

Is it even possible to just wait and the guards will come and let you go?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pufddybutrbisct (talk • contribs) on 00:20, 21 July 2009 (UTC).

No. --Elliot(T-C) 00:20, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Gaurd Conversations

I've heared from a few people that if you go to jail enough times the jailors will strike up a conversation with you while your in prison, just wondering if this was true.--Kaito 06:59, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Skill level < 5

Is it possible to get a skill to a value of less than 5 by going to jail? Shashakiro 02:27, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Just did it to make sure. –rpeh•T•C•E• 06:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks for checking. Out of pure curiosity, does the game ever try to decrease a skill below the minimum? If so, what happens? If not, what happens when you go to jail with every single skill at the minimum? Shashakiro 02:51, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
In order to do that, you would have to go to jail a bunch of times to get your major skills below 5. --Darkheart 13:47, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Tried it, and the minimum is 1. If the game selects a skill at 1, nothing happens. Oddly, you still get the text box afterwards that usually tells you which skills went down, even if no skills were decreased...but the box is blank. Shashakiro 21:00, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Enchantments do count as murder!

The article says an enchantment on a weapon does not count as murder, but that's not true; I have a custom enchanted weapon, enchanted with "10 points of Shock Damage per sec for 10 Seconds." When it kills someone who was not hostile, everyone shouts "Help! Murder!", and I get 1000 bounty anyways. --Darkheart 16:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

If it's not true, remove it. The whole point about Wiki-based websites is that anyone can edit them, and anything that isn't verifiable can be challenged or removed.Dstebbins 20:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] No bounty but getting arrested?

Anytime i talk to a guard they give me the "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM" crap, and then the bounty is listed as 1. I wasn't even aware you could get a bounty of one, but furthermore, reloading saves and checking my stat page, i see a bounty of 0 yet i still get arrested. I'm in the middle of the thieves guild quest where you plant the bust and have to talk to Lex, and this is extremely frustrating, because i just arrested for no reason instead?

Any ideas? Thanks—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.186.38.190 (talk • contribs).

Try the console command player.payfine and see if that works. Be sure to go the dungeon's Evidence Chest later to pick up your stolen goods. --Darkheart 19:47, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Unexpected murder count

I removed the paragraph that explained the unexpected murder counts, because these would apply in real life as well. The first one is commonly referred to as "friendly fire," and it's just as illegal as manslaughter, even more so if you're a soldier on the frontlines. The second one is also murder in real life, because if you know someone is going to kill you, it's still illegal to kill him back, but if he's ACTUALLY TRYING to kill you, it's okay to defend yourself, and just like in real life, you're only allowed to use as much force as is necessary to repel the force being brought against you, which explains why, if he yields (aka, you've successfully repelled the force), you're expected to stop hitting him on the stop.

Aside from indirect killings being perfectly legal, the murder system is actually pretty intuitive when you think about it.Dstebbins 20:16, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I put it back again. So what if it occurs in real life? This is a game, and given the number of people who post "lol i saw too forestres atacking each othr", it needs including. Priam 20:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I think the ease with which one can accidentally and unknowingly kill an ally in combat in this game is worth noting, at least--I know that plenty of people have come out of battles like Kvatch and Bruma with a murder bounty and not even known about it until they were arrested. The bit about undetected sneak attacks is, as far as I know, not even true (I spent maybe the first 50 hours of the game killing every human enemy in dozens of dungeons with one-hit sneak attacks, and had something like 11 murders total), so that should probably go. Shashakiro 21:51, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Is it really too easy to kill an ally that gets in the way of you're shots, or is it really that difficult out on the real frontlines, only we're not trained soldiers?
Also, The no-detection sneak attack kill still applies, in the sense that it would increase your murder count and trigger the Dark Brotherhood Questline, but those mere 11 murders must be due to poisons and enchantments, which aren't considered murders.Dstebbins 16:45, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
The difference is that your allies in this game don't have any survival instinct, and don't make any attempt whatsoever to avoid getting killed by you. Real soldiers are disciplined and trained, yes, but they also have the common sense not to jump in front of their allies' bullets. As for the 11 murders, I was referring to my murder count on the stats page--it read 11 after I was Listener of the Dark Brotherhood and had killed hundreds of NPCs with one-hit sneak attacks. Shashakiro 17:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps, but that's just real-time AI for you. Turn-based AI, oh yes, it'll tear you limb from limb if you make even one wrong move to a different space. Turn-based AI in games like Chess and Advance Wars are like Shadowgate, in the sense that any movement that is not the absolute correct solution would result in a death. Real-time AI, however, has always had problems like this. Do you have any idea how difficult it is for an NPC to get even simple pathfinding correct, and not get stuck behind a dumpster?
Perhaps we should consider what's feasible, rather than what's ideal, in this particular aspect.Dstebbins 18:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Help Getting Rid of Quest Items

Hey I have Oblivon(GOTY) for Xbox 360 and I was wondering how can I get rid of qust items,to be more specific: Arrow of Extrication,Ring of Vipereye,Fork of Harrilipation, and some Mage Guild/Thieve's Guild Quest Items. I've tried the breaking out of jail thing,and it works until I load a new zone,like going to the Courtyard.I havn't tried the SI Jail yet so I'll see if that works also, but if anyone can help give advice on how to get rid of these darn things that would be great. Also I completed the questline for each item if that info helps.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Achawks123 (talk • contribs) on 14:53, 3 October 2009.

No, there is no way to get rid of those items on the XBox. You'll be stuck with them forever. It's a well-known glitch. Talk Wolok gro-Barok Contributions 15:58, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Can't lower some skills

I'm trying to boost my maximum level by decreasing major skills in jail, but i can only decrease 9 skills, and only 1 of which is on my major skills list(blade). I want to know how to fix this, but anyone trying to help should know i've already tried another disc of oblivion, and i've only tried in the imperial city jail, if that would matter at all. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks! --NJDThanatos 03:37, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

It could be that the game does this on purpose to keep people from overpowering their character like you'tre trying to do, and caps skill decreases at 9. --Darkheart 01:21, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
It's not like the game is stopping me from deleveling as much as i want, its just that the 9 skills that will be randomly selected are Armorer, alchemy, athletics, alteration, blunt, block, blade, hand to hand and heavy armor. the only major skill on this list is blade, which i could use, but its boosted to 105 permanently and i don't want to lose that. id rather decrease illusion or conjuration because they are easiest to increase, and do nothing more if the 100 limit is surpassed. thanks for the input anyway! --NJDThanatos 02:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] is there an easy way to kill somebody (in a house, inside a city), and not getting arrested for it? [Moved]

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everytime i kill someone, even if it's in a secure place, i still get caught... i mean, there's nobody watching, that can report it, so there's ought to be a way to kill somebody (in a house, inside a city) without getting caught... right?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.107.93.164 (talk • contribs) on 7 September 2009.

if the victim has time to cry out then the guards will be alerted even if you are inside a house. Your best bet is to try killing them in one strike with a sneak attack. Griffinsong 16:08, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Oblivion Unreported Crimes bug?

The Oblivion:Increasing_Skills article mentions a bug relating to unreported crimes causing instability. This is not mentioned on the crimes page at all. Is this information legitimate? If so it seems like it should be mentioned here as well. Lamey 02:30, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion_talk:Crime"
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