Lore talk:Tiber Septim

Family Crest

Does fan art really belong in that spot? Unless I am VERY mistaken, that did not come from Bethesda. It's fine where it is on the Septim family tree, but not here.Temple-Zero

With all the fan fiction you want to add (and have been adding) to our articles, I would have thought that fan art would be welcome. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:48, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

I've posted requests for information on Booyah boy's talk page (he originally uploaded the image) and on the image page. Unfortunately, given that Booyah boy has been inactive for nearly two years, I'm not sure that we'll be able to get any definitive answer from him on how he obtained the image. And it's a bit harder to track down image sources than factual sources (i.e., we can't just do text searches on every known source). So I don't think we can necessarily expect any prompt replies. However, if nobody has been able to provide any verification after a few weeks, then I'd say we should remove the image from all pages except Lore:Septim Dynasty and add some disclaimers to the image summary and any image captions. In its place we could perhaps use an image of just the central, diamond-shaped dragon logo (which is official; see, for example, the cover of PGE3). --Nephele^Talk 16:45, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

It's been two months, and the only new information is more evidence that it's unofficial (see here). Therefore I've removed most instances of the image, and changed the caption on the remaining article to state that the crest is unofficial. --Nephele^Talk 21:13, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Nordic?

Where does it say he was Nordic? I'm a bit confused. 98.198.83.12 20:56, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

He was born in Atmora. –Elliot ^talk 05:15, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

That's propaganda, though. No one has come from Atmora for over three thousand years. He was born in Alcaire and took on a Nordic name and aspect.Temple-Zero 05:30, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, you know more than me. :) Perhaps it should be mentioned in the article? –Elliot ^talk 05:32, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe the two versions of the story are already covered in the Orthodoxy and Heresy sections?Temple-Zero 15:38, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but it is rather clouded within the article. –Elliot ^talk 15:53, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

It's clear enough. The "official" version is that he came from Atmora, which is clearly nonsense as Temple-Zero points out. The "heresy" is that he came from High Rock. Even though that is clearly true, it is still heretical because of the official nature of the other story. Dr Jones 16:15, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Roman Emperor?

Anybody notice that the name Tiber Septim came from Ancient Roman Emperors? Tiberius and Septimius Severus. — Unsigned comment by 68.179.18.91 (talk) on 18 October 2009

The Roman influence on the names of the Imperials is more than obvious. --Timenn-<talk> 12:16, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

The words on their own refer to a river and a wall or barrier. It's as if he was named after a dam, though the grammar doesn't hold to that theory. 216.254.164.191 18:01, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Serious Plot Hole

Does anyone have any more information on Tiber Septim. One big oversight that I see is, how exactly did Tiber become one of the nine divines? Is it pseudo history, or did it actually happen? Your records only indicate that he "died."

The article is incomplete. He achieved apotheosis via a mysterious, arcane process involving Numidium and its Mantella, an avatar of Lorkhan, and the related mythically significant struggle.132.162.76.105 18:39, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Moved from article

*He might be named after Tiber River, which is in Italy. It may give a strong proof that Cyrodilic Empire had been made after Ancient Rome.

This looks like something that needs to be discussed, I for one, don't think so.--^Corevette₇₈₉ 02:45, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

It's probably true, but it should go on the Lore:Etymology|Etymology page rather than here. rpeh •T•C•E• 07:56, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Tiber Septim's Reign

"A general of Nordic descent, Emperor Tiber Septim is regarded as one of the most famed figures in Tamriellian history, reigning from 2E 854-3E 38"

Unless I am misinterpreting the use of reigning here, wouldn't this imply he was emperor from 2E/854 - 3E/38 (which is clearly not right, considering the following quote: "He ruled for 38 years and is considered by most to be the best emperor throughout history")? Or would it imply he was a general in this time period (as mentioned in the timeline of the Common Era). But again, could he really have been a General and an Emperor at the same time (2E/897 - 3E/38)?

Maybe I am just confusing myself here, but it seemed a bit misleading to say he reigned from 2E/854 - 3E/38 (again, unless I am misinterpreting the use of reigning in the quote).

I am still fairly new to Tamriellic lore, so any corrections would be helpful.

Many thanks. --Weeman5872 12:58, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

It's right. He took the throne in 2E 854 and immediately declared a new era. That means he reigned for about 10s in the second era and then 38 in the third. For more information, see the notes on this article. rpeh •T•C•E• 13:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Possible Relation to the Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

In the first trailer " Their is one they fear... the Dragon Born", or something along those lines. Could that possibly be a reference to Tiber Septim? — Unsigned comment by 58.170.110.18 (talk) on 18 december 2010

As our [[General:The Future of TES Games]] requests, "Please keep all speculation, wishlists, etc. restricted to the forums." rpeh •T•C•E• 13:49, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Ruby Throne?

Anyone know where this term came from? It's mention here and on the Dragonfires page, but I can't find an actual source for it in the lore. In-game dialogue? Minor Edits 00:19, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I seem to recall asking this myself a long time ago, and getting no response. It's not in either MW or OB dialogue, and doesn't appear in any in-game book either. My guess is that it's an invented term. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:40, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

There's definitely a source now: Rising Threat, Vol. IV uses the term. Minor Edits 01:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Is it just me, or is it coincidince.

I find that the sketch of Tiber Septim resembles Vladimir Lenin (who was anti-imperialist) with some more hair. Does anybody agree? If so, is this merely coincidence? or is it a joke? Right-Hand-Of-Sithis 08:09, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Rewording of opening paragraph

Alright, I am no Lore scholar -- but my first readthrough of this page was a little confusing because I didn't know 'Talos' and 'Tiber Septim' were the same person. I tweaked the opening paragraph to list the names under which Tiber Septim was also known (as I found them listed in Lore:Talos). Hopefully this makes the article clearer. I also changed "general" to "emperor" since, well, Tiber Septim was Talos' imperial name. Axxchor 21:20, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Image

A sketch of a shrine to Tiber Septim in Skyrim

Thinking about adding this to the page, creating a line of images on the right of the page (the Bruma pic, this shot, and the engraving) with text on the left. Yay, nay?Minor Edits 06:05, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Works for me. – Robin Hood↝talk 06:50, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Hero or Tyrant

Most people on nirn revere Talos and worship as a god and hero who united the lands but there is a book that shows him in an unfavourable light, it claims he slit the throat of his emperor and then himself to make it look like he was attacked, he also betrayed ysmir/arctus to power the golem and continue on his power-hungry quest to conquer tamriel but which one do you reckon is true, i know that there may be no evidence either way but as in real life, people namely generals and leaders have ulterior motives and have rewritten history, someone once said that history is written by the victor. 86.179.18.163 00:18, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes indeed. The Arcturian Heresy shines a different light on the history of Tiber Septim as in fact a warrior from Alcaire named Hjalti. I've seen people rage on message boards about this who go to great lengths to say that The Underking is simply lying but it's never 100% clear as to how much is really true or not. Most fans like to believe in the "official" version much like the established stories of the genesis of Nirn(though I disagree with them as there is no proof besides religious texts written by those who would consider anything else heresy, much the same as your point of the victors being the ones to write history even though other possibilities exist and are hinted at. We only have this to tell us that the Aedra are actually divine as opposed to Daedra, but that's another discussion). I am now more apt to believe more of what the Underking had written about the true identity of Septim after completeing the Skyrim quest in Old Hroldan. I'm sure more will be revealed in time. FuBi0 06:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth, it's hard to rise to power - let alone the total, absolute power tiber septim had - if you're someone who just wants to be a good guy. Even the various TES heroes you play only live to save the day, and then fade away. And yeah, after the Old Hroldan quest, I'm more inclined to beleive the Actuarian Heresy.

On the upside, such rich and deep lore really affects my choices in Skyrim now. Role-playing a nord, worship of Talos is important to me. And yet finding this makes me almost indifferent to it now. Though it makes me respect the empire less - whose to say their time to end isn't due now if they were founded by just another Thu'um wielding warlord? We have another of those in Ulfric you know...ForsakenOne 06:20, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

A lot of lore has potentially two sides, especially characters. Skyrim is a good example as the two warring factions can't be considered totally good or evil as they are basically both. Stormcloaks are trying to reclaim their independence like freedom fighters but it is revealed that they are racists as they only want nords in skyrim and that ulfric may just want to become high king. Mr.Scryer. 18:16, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Origin of the name "Talos"

"Talos" (pronounced "Tay-loss") was the name of the bronze giant in the Ancient Greek legend of Jason and the Argonauts. Is this a coincidence or might the developers have taken the name from here, especially considering his use of the Numidium?Norowane (talk) 23:20, 5 January 2013 (GMT)

Page Protection

I've been waiting for this since we added the summaries. That was only a week ago. I think it's foreseeable that people will, in good faith or not, frequently continue to inappropriately change the race parameter on this page to Nord, Breton, Atmoran, and who knows what else, as this is a highly integrated page on the UESP which is about an important person with a controverted history. I think we should just protect the page. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 18:57, 9 May 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, it was inevitable. Personally, I think a nb note (with a small explanation) against the race "Unknown" field would help against these edits and would be helpful for such an article. --Jimeee (talk) 19:03, 9 May 2013 (GMT)

I'm against protection as of now. If this turns into a frequent occurrence, my tune will change, but I think a hidden note may work for the moment. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 19:50, 9 May 2013 (GMT)

3 times in 3 weeks, granted it's only two users, I agree with protection. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 20:24, 26 May 2013 (GMT)

I've added hidden notes in this edit. I think that this might work here without the need for protection. If we see a few more cases of this, I'll protect the article. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 00:32, 27 May 2013 (GMT)