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User talk:Roleplayer242621

2012-04-05T00:00:57Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Updated Status */

Skyrim talk:Totems of Hircine

2012-03-30T13:49:46Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Need More Information About Fear Shouts */

==Significance==
What do these totems actually do? --[[User:Bonabopn|Bonabopn]] 17:43, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
:give the werewolf additional powers.[[Special:Contributions/109.154.178.15|109.154.178.15]] 16:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Is this glitched for anyone else? ==
Having problems actually starting this quest. I talk to Aela but she only gives me those dang repeatable quests (i.e. go kill this bear/saber cat that is in this house). She has never once given me a quest to find this totem thing. Is there a certain number of repeatables I have to do to get to the Totems of Hircine quest, or is this a bug/glitch? ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 23:36, 28 November 2011 (UTC))

:possibly a bug as i am having trouble with this. only vilkis and aela gives me quests and they are always the same with aela...animal extermination, so far i haven't got the purity quest and i haven't got the totem quest.[[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 22:48, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

::so far vilkis, farkas and aela give me quests, i previously dealt with the bug on the purity quest but i still can't trigger this totem quest, aela just keeps giving me animal extermination quests, is anyone else getting this bug? [[Special:Contributions/109.154.178.15|109.154.178.15]] 16:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I can't start this quest either. After I finished Glory of the Dead, all I get are Animal Exterminations. I'll try every quest giver and see if I get this one or the purity eventually. ([[User:ZekunD|ZekunD]] 10:13, 5 December 2011 (UTC))

::::I received the initial totem quest, but ever it's completion all Aela would ever give me are the animal extermination quests. I did the two purity quests for Farkas and Wilkas right after the totem quest, which makes me wonder whether if doing the two purity quests before finishing all 3 totem quests would somehow cause the totem quest to become unavailable. Anyone else have a similar experience? I got tired of the unending deluge of animal extermination quests so I used setstage console command to activate the second totem quest. Note that this did not enable any of the dialogue associated with the quest. I didn't even receive a waypoint. All that <setstage CR12 10> did was to update my journal saying Aela has found the location of a second totem in Ilinaga's deep. After doing a thorough search of the said dungeon I'm lead to believe that the totem wasn't even spawned. So I used <player.placeatme e3147 1> (e3146 is the scent totem, e3147 is the summon wolf totem, and e3148 is the fear totem item id) to spawn the totem on the ground. Picking it up did not bring about any change in quest log. Going back to the console I typed in <setstage CR12 20> which brought me to the "deliver totem to underforge" portion of quest. Thankfully along with the journal update I also received a compass waypoint pointing to the second altar in the underforge (no change in dialogue from Aela, though as soon as i placed the totem on the altar she went over and started praying). Now, I tried doing this for the last totem only to run into the problem of the console not recognizing the code <setstage CR12 10> as it is already logged in as complete. I typed in <sqs> which showed all stages of CR12 as complete. I saw somewhere that a quest can be reseted by typing <resetquest CR12> in console. So i did that, now sqs shows all stages of CR12 as incomplete and yet setstage still does not work. Somebody pleeeeeese help me, this is so frustrating. {{uns|122.57.147.210|12:31, 5 December 2011 (UTC)}}

:::::i figured out what causes aele to constantly give the animal extermination quests instead of the totems of hircine, you must not marry her or she will just give out AE quests all the time, i reloaded an old save where i was not married to her or anyone and after 3 AE quests i got the totem quests. [[Special:Contributions/86.179.18.163|86.179.18.163]] 12:51, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

{{od}}I am the original poster of this question, and I would like to say the above post is false. I have not married Aela, and in fact, I have not married ANYONE in the entire game. I have been single through the entire playthrough. I don't even have a different game file that is married. I'm so single, that I don't even have the "married" achievement on Steam, so I can safely say even being single, Aela will not give me the quest. I have not done the Purity quests either. One of my friends who lives about 15 minutes away has the PS3 version and he is unable to complete this quest as well because of this bug. I am on the PC version. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 03:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC))

:Its not false pal, she will not give me the totem quests while i married her. i reloaded a old save in which i did not marry her and after curing kodlak and waiting for her and the others to get back to whiterun she gave me the first totem quest after just three Animal Extermination quests, in the save that i married her in, all i get it Animal Extermination over and over and over again. not false, you are just probably experiencing a different glitch. NOTE that i have it on the 360 and i am not the only one who reported this glitch after marring aela, the forums.bethesda has many complaints on the totem bug. [[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 14:59, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

::I didn't mean the part where if you marry Aela, then she won't give you the quest was false. What I meant was, you can be single and she still won't give you the quest. I'm sure if you do marry Aela, then you might be screwed; that part I was not falsifying. The part I wanted to make very clear was: Aela sometimes glitches and won't give you the quest even if you're not married to her. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 07:32, 10 December 2011 (UTC))

:::I cured Kodlak then did several (2 or 3) AE quests from Aela. I assumed that's all I would receive from then on. After many many weeks (still only 2-3 AE quests total -- I was just completing them when I was near by) I swung by Jorrvaskr and turned a quest in to Aela. She then offered me the chance to go along for the Totem quest.
:::I accepted the quest and Aela replaced my follower Annekke -- who immediately began attacking us because I had her Aggression to 3. I quickly reloaded my auto-save from entering Jorrvaskr (I talked to Aela immediately after entering,) set Annekke's aggression back down, then turned the quest in to Aela. Afterwards, she just offered me another AE quest. I reloaded the save, another AE quest.
:::I am only a few quests into the main story line. I am married to Muiri. I have not been able to get Aela to offer me the quest again. {{uns|173.89.143.1|06:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)}}

::::On the last totem quest, it freezes up during the load page for movarths lair. I have tried everything i know and looked up several answers and cant figure it out.. {{uns|69.158.149.149|19:12, 6 December 2011 (UTC)}}

:::::I think these radiant quests are randomly given. I just got my first Totem quest on PS3. Before that, I was given another extermination. I reloaded because I didn't want to decline, took Aela as follower and did one different quest (The Blessings of Nature). I let Aela go after that and she asked me to come along for totem quest when I talked to her. So for the next 2 totems, I'll talk to her every time I finish other quests. ([[User:ZekunD|ZekunD]] 04:23, 7 December 2011 (UTC))
:::::I got the rest of the totem quests one after another. So these totems are like blessing, only one effect at a time?([[User:ZekunD|ZekunD]] 10:48, 7 December 2011 (UTC))

::::::I believe I have figured out the glitch to this quest, but first I must ask, how many people cured their werewolf who are having this bug with constant AE quests? (Ikolo - December 7, 1:47 AM, ETZ) {{uns|24.23.73.190|06:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)}}

::::::: This is my situation and how i solved the "infinite radiant hunting without totems quest" issue(PC). I marryed Aela right after the "Glory of the dead" quest and found myself unable to participate in the totem quest (did 12 animal huntings before surrendering) using the command /player.sqs CR12/ (CR12 is the totems quest code [done in the command console]) I discovered that for some reason I had "Stage 0:" and "Stage 1:" set as complete (a 1 insted of a 0), so i typed in /resetquest Cr12/ (to reset the quest), then I asked Aela for work; got a hunting job, took her as my compañion, slayed the "beast" and told her the job was done. Then I dispached her home BUT before she left "the room" y asked her for work and the dialog option came up for the totem quest. I think that marrying Aela causes stages 0 and 1 to be set as done, and therefore there is no way to initiate the quest after the wedding. Hope this helps evreybody. PS: I didnt have the heads on me (they where at my house). PS2: I didt do any other werewolf quest, although i did other quest (finished the hole mage quest line)PS3: I didn't cure my self from lycanthropy, only Kodlac. 14:48, December 26 2011
::::::::You my friend are a genius. THIS TOTALLY WORKED!!

::::::::I performed this as well, and it appears to work, however I have additional information. I too performed the sqs status check on the quest cr12, and stage 0 and 1 were both set to 1 as mentioned above. I reset them using resetquest cr12, after completing an AH quest, but then noticed I always received another AH quest regardless of when I asked for work (after dismissal but before leaving the cell, back at home, back at home with her following me). Instead I tried reseting the quest while I was currently on a quest, right after completing the main objective of the AH but before returning to Aela to turn it in. This time, she gave me the first totem quest immediately, AND I noticed afterwards that the quest stages 0 and 1 were once again both 1. I suspect that the next Radiant quest for each quest giver is assigned at the completion of the previous and NOT when you ask for a new quest. I believe the previous poster was correct that the Totem quest can only be given when stages 0 and 1 are 0, since my experience supports this theory. [[Special:Contributions/109.235.42.234|109.235.42.234]] 01:16, 3 February 2012 (UTC)Brandark

:::::::: That works. Was a werewolf, married to Aela. She gave me at least 10-12 animal quests until I saw this post. It made no difference whether I had heads in my house or inventory, whether she was with me or in the house. I also had stages 0 and 1 of cr12 set to 1. Once I reset it, she gave me one more animal quest which we did together, I handed it in, dismissed her and as above, before she left asked for work and got the second totem quest. {{uns|86.171.64.178|January 15, 2012 15:12}}

{{od}}In my case, I was still a werewolf, had cured Kodlak, had taken Aela as a quest partner a few times, but had no married anyone. After a couple of "Animal Extermination" quests she offered the first Totem of Hircine quest. PC Version. {{uns|69.140.126.103|15:35, 11 December 2011 (UTC)}}

:Playing on the PS3. I'm married to Aela and I still recieved 2 of the Totem quests but I haven't got the last one. I keep getting the Animal Extermination quests. At first she wouldn't give me the second one so I tried waiting for a few hours and she brought it up. Waiting could be a possible fix. {{uns|24.180.218.145|04:34, 14 December 2011 (UTC)}}

::'''Xbox 360, version 1.3.5.0: I am married to Aela and had no problem getting the quests.''' I received alternating Animal Extermination quests and totem quests. Worked flawlessly. Based on the comments here, it seems there a bug may exist in some versions but there is no correlation between marriage and problems with assignment of the totem quest. The article should be updated as the assertion that marrying Aela has any effect on obtaining the quests is pure speculation inconsistency with my report and those above. [[User:Accretor|Accretor]] 12:31, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I removed the reference to being married to Aela as there doesn't seem to be any correlation in the above discussion nor in my own experience. However, it seems likely that a bug exists in some versions and cases. It's best we don't speculate on this in the article unless we have better supporting info, right? Many of those reporting problems above — including those who believe marriage to Aela caused the problem and those who don't — haven't referenced version, platform, etc., so for all we know, this bug may now be fixed or at the least is based on as yet unknown triggers. [[User:Accretor|Accretor]] 11:39, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

:::: I try to go in the Ansilvund Burial Chambers but then it gets stuck on the loading screen for ages (10 minutes or so). I've tried 3 times getting in but i have to keep resetting the game because it gets stuck. Please help. Thanks. (UTC)

{{od}}I DID IT AFTER ALL:) Checked my status (player.sqs CR12) and reset it (resetquest CR12) because Stage 0 and Stage 1 were already marked completed (value 1 instead of 0). The game is glitched here for sure. Possibly storing the Witchheads at home or taking Aela as a follower (witch I both did) marks the first Totem completed. (I didn't marry Aela, although I earnestly thought about it:), but this might cause it as well.) Before storing the Witchheads and taking her as a follower she offered the Totem quest once, but I reloaded then to get Archery training from her (which isn't available during the Totem quest). Foolish! - Anyway, after reseting the quest, I had to do 1 Animal and on return I got the 1.Totem quest (dialogue option: "Is there anymore work to be done?" instead of "I'm looking for work."). After that Aela offered again only Animals. I did one, but declined the second. I check Vilkas instead (since earlier taking to Aela helped unblocking Falkas Purify quest, so I tried this here vice versa) and Vilkas offered DRAGON SEEKER. I did that one with him and waited 24hrs (because I thought there could be an certain wanted delay between the Totems quests). And I got the 2.Totem after that. (I already had slain an Animal before Dragon Seeker.) After the 2.Totem 1 more Animal and the 3.Totem - without anything else (I did not wait for another 24hrs - so this was probably nonsense).
CONCLUSION: First resetquest and later unblock with Dragon Seeker. - Good luck and thanks for the help from all others here! - parmenion, 13 Feb 2012

== Totems of Hircine only available to werewolves? ==

I cured myself of the werewolf curse immediately after curing Kodlak. Then did a few random quests and was able to purify Vilkas and Farkas. I'm guessing that Aela does not wish to be purified, and that Totems of Hircine cannot be unlocked unless you are a werewolf. Therefore, Aela will continue to indefinitely give random animal extermination quests because you cannot do Totems of Hircine with her. Is this theory already obvious to you all?[[Special:Contributions/173.171.221.77|173.171.221.77]] 22:28, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

:That is exactly my assumption, I don't know if this was intention from the creators or a glitch, but I believe cleansing yourself of the werewolf blood will disallow you from being able to pick up the totems of Hircine quests. I plan on testing this quite a bit to find out soon for verification. (Ikolo - December 8 12:03 AM EST) {{uns|24.23.73.190|05:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)}}

::Indeed. We are werewolves seeking the special abities, only attainable by doing the totem of hircine quests, which Aela will not give. Obviously if one has cured werewolf blood there would be no need for this quest. It seems futile. I've done over 15 AE quests, but to no avail. (ImOnXbox - December 8 11pm) {{uns|41.31.191.187|20:40, 8 December 2011 (UTC)}}

:::Well, unfortunately I kept getting stuck in werewolf form every time I would transform. It didn't matter how long I would wait in-game, I would remain a werewolf. I tried waiting in-game for 24-48 hours, then I ate dinner in real life, came back and I was still in werewolf form. I even left Skyrim on while I went to sleep and 8 real-life hours later I was still in werewolf form! This happened with earlier saves too, so I couldn't revert back to an older save. My only option to get out of werewolf form was setstage f6090 100. Only much later did I realize that by doing that, I might have screwed myself out of being able to get the totems of Hircine because apparently setstage f6090 100 is the quest that cures you of werewolfism. I have since made myself a werewolf again by using the console code player.addspell 92c48. The game still recognizes me as a werewolf, NPCs make remarks about hair in my ears and my wolfish grin, and my days-as-a-werewolf counter is still going up. I was hoping that by being a werewolf again, it would trick Aela into giving me the Totems quest, because I never wanted to be cured in the first place. I only wanted to get out of werewolf form so I could continue on with my quests. Is there any way to undo the setstage command? Or once you type that in, it's set in stone? I can live without the Totems, because all I would use anyway is the Fear roar, which is pretty much the same as the default roar, but it would be nice to be able to do the quest. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 07:43, 10 December 2011 (UTC))

::::did you cure yourself of being a werewolf??? becouse i have and i think that is the problem? i cant start it and i havent married her BUT the only thing i can think of tht might mess it up is the fact im not a were wolf anymore . . . anythoughts? {{uns|109.156.230.88|23:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)}}

{{od}}Yeah that's what I think it is. If you have ever typed in setstage f6090 100, then you won't be able to do the Totems quests. I did a little experiment and here's what I found. First, I started a completely new game. After doing the first dragon mission, I did the entire Companion's quest line without doing any other quests. No more main story quests or miscellaneous quests. After I cured Kodlak, I waited a few days for Aela, Farkas and Vilkas to go back to Jorrvaskr. Once they were back inside Jorrvaskr, I talked to Vilkas first and he offered to go on a dragon hunt with me. After that quest was finished, I talked to Farkas and he wanted to be purified. I purified Farkas and then I talked to Aela, and she gave me a Totem quest! I did the Totem quest and then I talked to Vilkas again, and this time he wanted to be purified, so I purified him too. After that, I went back to Jorrvaskr and was able to do the rest of the Totem quests from Aela without any problems. She's not even glitched inside the underforge, which is a miracle as well. I'm thinking that if you progress too far into the main story, the Companion questline has a higher chance of being glitchy. Or maybe even doing certain miscellaneous quests will glitch up the Companion quests. I've played through Skyrim 3 different times now, and this is the first time I got the Companion quest to work 100% correctly. The only thing I did different to make it work this time was to not join another guild or do any other main quests once I picked up the first Companion quest.

So to summarize on how to complete the Companion questline glitch free:
:• Never type in setstage f6090 100. Doing this will lock you out of the Totems of Hircine quests.
:• If you start a new game, do all of the Companion quests first. Don't advance through the main story after the initial dragon slaying quest. Don't do any miscellaneous quests either.
:• Don't join another guild while doing the Companion quests.
:• Don't marry Aela. For extra caution, don't marry anyone until the entire guild questline has been completed.

Also note, this is what worked for me. Your experience might be different. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 09:23, 14 December 2011 (UTC))

:I found out that an easy way to have Aela give you the Totems quests is having the witches heads in your inventory.
:I was getting only animal exterminations, I put the heads in the inventory and the totem quest showed up right after an animal extermination. I completed the quest, talked to Aela again, did another animal extermination and got another totem quest right after it.
:hope it helps some of you. {{uns|93.151.250.181|19:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)}}

::All the above doesn't matter much:
::You simply need to have the witches heads in your inventory when you talk to Aela (obtaineable by doing the optional quest of wiping out all the witches) or else its nearly impossible to get the quest and she will keep givin you animal extermination (I tried with 3 different characters, ont he first I obtained the totems quests at the beginning, after becoming a werewolf, on the second I got married, became Harbinger and leadder of the Thieves guild, on the third I first completed mages quests then joined companions)
::Note: the heads MUST be in your inventory, it won't work in you have the heads stored in your house, if you sold them or threw them away) {{uns|213.243.216.26|11:36, 21 December 2011 (UTC)}}

I'm still getting animal exterminations, even with the heads in my inventory (although i have 4 of them, and am unsure whether or not it matters if they are marked as quest (i know how to un-quest-item them)). would it have anything to do with purity quests? I am still a werewolf.

Also... It propbably doesn't help that i still haven't completed Darkness Returns

I haven't gotten to this bug yet, but for those PC players who cured themselves and then used setstage to get reinfected, did you consider that there is probably a scripting break and that you may need to reset Aela so that she recognizes that you're a werewolf? Disable/Enable may update her scripting and allow the quest to continue. This is the regular command to update/upgrade NPCs. Lazar 00:29, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

== About Animal Extermination Quests PLEASE READ! ==

:Aela may give repeated [[Skyrim:Animal_Extermination_(A)|Animal Extermination]] quests and not the Totems quests.

I thought this was happening to me at first, but after doing several Animal Extermination quests from Aela, she gave me a second totem quest. I believe that these quests are offered AT RANDOM by Aela, and may not necessarily happen one after another. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that. If you're curious about the circumstances for whatever reason, I'm playing on PC, I'm a werewolf, I've cured Farkas and Vilkas, and I did NOT have a witch head in my inventory when I was offered the second quest. [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] 16:55, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't know why deleting this hint from this article, since it really helped me. But okay, if YOU think that it is not suitable here, delete it, mr. I-believe-that-these-quests-are-offered-AT-RANDOM-by-Aela. However, guys, if you face such a problem, try this solution: take all the witch heads into your inventory and speak to Aela.
:I'm not going to act all high and mighty, but you should know that kind of tone won't win you any support amongst the other editors. Some of the higher ups in particular frown on that kind of thing in discussions. Getting back on topic, please note that I didn't just remove your addition about the witch heads; I removed the whole thing until the matter can be settled here. If you'll look at the discussion above, it has already been noted by others that for them, the quests were random. The reason I removed it from the page is that until the matter of whether or not the bug truly exists is settled, it shouldn't be listed as a "bug". [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] 17:18, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

== Totems crash ==

Most annoying of all is that I got the Totem's quest (360 version) and it sent me to Morvan's Lair which I'd already cleared of Morvan and also returned to, to get a book. Now when I try to go in the game just crashes. I read this happens at other locations for other Hircine totems. Any ideas what to do?

The first totem in this quest sent me to Morvunskar. My game (360) now crashes whenever I try to enter with Aela. I believe this is a similar situation to the Morvan's Liar and Haemar’s Shame crashes. I have already cleared Morvunskar in A Night To Remember and then reentered it successfully later to pick up forgotten loot. Now I am stuck with Aela and no way to dismiss he, except to go back to a very early saved game.

:I had a rather large answer that I was going to add here. But if you carefully read the Notes section on the Totems page, it will tell you what to do. Just remember, you must save every time before talking to Aela. If you get a Daedric Quest shared location (like Morvunskar) or get a bad quest target indicator (points to Jorrvaskr, means no quest item spawned) or get any location that is known to be buggy, just reload and ask her again for a better location. The Totems quests are random locations, so why take one with bugs? Just going in and out the main doors can also help to change her dialogue options. If she's stuck on a bad location, just reload and go do something else for a day or so and then try again.
:The main thing is to always make good, timely and consistent saves. Learning to make good Hard, Auto and Quick saves will save you a lot of time and headaches. Lazar 21:42, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

::anyone have a different answer than the obvious? Isn't there another way into Morvunskar? I thought I read that there was before, but cannot seem to find it now.

Lazar, I wish you would add what you were going to write. I again reread the notes section on the Totems page and found nothing relevant to a fix for this.

The closest I've come to completing other quests like boethiah's calling. Is that there is a way to have a second follower supposedly for xbox, but I havent figured it out yet, Also the bethesda patch that was supposed to be out last month is supposedly going to have a fix for this, it just says "cave crash fix" so I'm hoping that comes out soon and it works for our problem.

My problem: On PS3, I get the Totems quest at Ansilvund and clear the main chamber, but when I get to the door to the Ansilvund Burial Chamber, the game freezes as I try to go through. This freeze is different that the previous freezes that have occurred. I can still access the PS3 menu to quit the game, but when I do it automatically restarts the PS3. I've tried going to a different location for the quest and reactivating once inside, performing other quests and then coming back, marrying Aela, waiting many game days, with autosave turned off and on, etc. If anyone knows a way to fix this or to postpone the quest and have Aela stop following me, that would be much appreciated.

== Need More Information About Fear Shouts ==

Where can we learn more information about the fear shouts? For example, up to what level (and what range of distance) will the fear shouts work? What is the difference between the original fear shout and the Totem of Hircine "higher level fear shout"? Following links only leads to the "Fear" spell, which only describes the basic spell (level 9). Does the Howl of Terror have the exact same stats? The in-game book about the Totems of Hircine imply that the high level shout will work on everyone who is not a werewolf (or has been a werewolf). ''"[T]hose who witness their forms cower in a terror unknown except to those who have glimpsed the face of Hircine himself."'' So far I've encountered a fair number of generic enemy NPCs that evidently have had personal chats with Hircine. There is at least a page for the wolf spirits, so hopefully information (like stats) about those will fill in on that page, but I would like to see (find) some detail about the fear shouts. --[[User:Amsuko|Amsuko]] 21:44, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I've used the higher level fear shout, some high level NPCs didn't react. For instance, I get the message saying "Master Conjurer is too powerful for Scent of Blood". However, I am almost certian that the higher level fear shout simply increases the distance the shout can be heard, though that's speculation, I'll look into it later as soon as I fix my controller. Only thing I can confirm right now is that people whom have had absolutely no relations to Hircine have immunity purely based upon their level. Some higher level bandits have resisted my fear shouts before as well, all I can remember for now is the Master Conjurer. I'll look into this matter later as well. To my knowledge, it doesn't bump up the levels the shout effects, almost positive. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 13:49, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Stormcloaks

2012-03-15T21:17:03Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Good or Bad? */

==Plural==
Shouldn't this be '''Skyrim:Stormcloak'''? I was under the impression that we always make article titles singular because you can just add an "s" to the end of the link. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 14:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure the group is actually called "The Stormcloaks". I can't think of a single time the group has been referred to as "The Stormcloak". --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 15:23, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

::Yes, I understand that, but for instance I just added links to the [[Lore:Fourth Era|Fourth Era]] article, and it refers to the "Stormcloak rebellion", and that article is the most appropriate thing to link to. Also, any member of the rebellion would be referred to as '''''a'' Stormcloak'''. No big deal, though... we could keep this title and just add a redirect, that would accomplish the same thing. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 17:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

:::This is the line of reasoning that led to the "page titles in singular" policy on wikipedia. But I guess it would mean a major policy change for UESP, which already has a lot of plurals in page titles. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] 17:17, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

::::The point is that the Proper Name of the faction is Stormcloaks, with the "s". I am assuming it might be proper to refer to a faction member as a "Stormcloak", but this page is for the faction itself. --[[User:Brf|Brf]] 17:21, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

:::::I agree but a redirect should probably be made for the many people who will look up Stormcloak.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 17:24, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

::::::Is it needed? When I type "Stormcloak" into the search box and click "Go" it takes me right to this page. --[[User:Brf|Brf]] 17:27, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

:::::::Oh, well then no, thanks for pointing that out.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 17:31, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

{{od}}The Search function disregards plurals. For example, you can actually type in something like ''OB:Ebony Blades'' and it goes to the Daedric artifact. But direct links do not work the same way. For example you couldn't create a valid link to ''SK:Stormcloak'', even though it works in the search box. I don't mind the creation of a redirect though. It could be handy, although linking to a redirect is usally somewhat frowned upon... That could always be fixed later though. --[[User:DKong27|DKong27]] '''[[User_talk:DKong27|Tk]] [[Special:Contributions/DKong27|Ctr]] [[User:DKong27/Email|Em]]''' 17:35, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

:In terms of this specific page, its name will end up being based on how exactly the faction name is spelled in game (specifically, in the CS entry for the faction), since that's our primary rule with page naming. As for other wiki pages (e.g., [[Skyrim:Items]]), we've never been terribly consistent. Over time we've tried to move to singular versions of page names, but we've never gone back and changed all the existing pages. It's crossed my mind several times when creating new Skyrim pages, but I've figured I'd just follow the example set by past games, thus propagating the inconsistency. I know I'm so used to typing [[Skyrim:Weapons|Weapons]] that having the Skyrim page at 'Weapon' for some games and 'Weapons' for others would just get really annoying.
:However, we generally do not create plural->singular or singular->plural redirects. Our search engine has been tweaked to make sure that 'go' always takes you to the correct page. The only exception is unusual plurals ('Elves' instead of 'Elfs'; 'Words of Power' instead of 'Word of Powers'). When a link needs to be made to a page, it just has to be done the long way. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:39, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

::Had I actually done some research before saying anything, I'd've seen the plurals everywhere... I probably read some old conversation discussing the benefits of singular titles, and I just never checked. And, yeah, since this is a faction, we don't have options, so my whole question is pointless. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 03:08, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Unusual plurals???????? (I may have read this the wrong way) Both the OED AND the Meriam Webster Dictionary list ELVES as the plural. Likewise Word of Powers doesn't make sense. If it's "Words of Power", then one word has a certain power, the second word has another power. If it's word of powers then the one word has two powers. {{unsigned|118.92.239.39|9 November 2011}}

::::Ummm, yeah, I think you read it the wrong way. The wiki search engine doesn't know English spelling/grammar. All that it knows to do is add and subtract "s" to the end of words. So if you ask the wiki search engine to guess at the plural form of "[[Skyrim:Word of Power|Word of Power]]", it's going to guess "Word of Powers". Which is why we have to instead create a redirect at "[[Skyrim:Words of Power|Words of Power]]" to tell the search engine what the correct plural form is. But we don't need to create redirects for any words that the search engine will handle properly. Does that explain it any more clearly? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 07:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

:::::I think you guys are getting a little too concerned about this. The title of this article will remain "Stomcloaks" because it is a ''proper name'' - the name of an inmportant faction. It would be the same if you were writing an article on a sporting team like the ''Sydney Roosters'' (notice the s) football team here in Australia. However if we talking about Roosters in general it would be ''Rooster'' because a: "Roosters" is not a proper name and b: we are talking about something that can be broken down into it's individual members (in this case, members of the species). For the same reason, when we do the page on the generic NPCs which make up the Stormcloaks (proper noun), it will be named Stormcloak or Stormcloak Soldier (common noun).

:::::Whew.

:::::-- [[User:Revoran|Revoran]] 08:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

== Rising through ranks. ==

If you still technically rise through ranks in the stormcloaks, woud you mind posting them? Thanks

:Wohoho, man. Calm down, once was enough. And the first title is Ice Veins, then Frost Hammer, and finally Stormblade. May have forgotten some. [[Special:Contributions/67.237.109.144|67.237.109.144]] 05:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

::Weird, it looked like you posted that six times. [[Special:Contributions/67.237.109.144|67.237.109.144]] 05:02, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

:::Bonebreaker was the title before Frost Hammer if I remember correctly. --[[Special:Contributions/76.11.242.163|76.11.242.163]] 16:44, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

== Good or Bad? ==

Is the "Stormcloacks" On the Good or the Bad side? Because I want my Hero (Dovahkiin) To be so nice as he can get. {{Uns|217.209.214.128|21:11, 13 November 2011}}

:Are Republicans good? Are democrats? It's politics. There's no good side. There's the Imperials and the Rebels. It's a matter of who you want to rule. {{unsigned|72.23.128.195|03:42, 15 November 2011}}

:::Well the Stormcloaks are clearly the bad guys. All of their viewpoints are meant to parallel Nazi Germany. They claim that the Nord race, AKA the Arian Race, should rule Skyrim because all the other races, AKA the Jews, gays, black, gypsies, and anyone else that wasn't arian, are making their country weaker. (TM) {{Uns|99.31.193.231|21:30, 9 December 2011}}
:::: I don't see how they resemble the Nazis at all, especially considering the fact that they aren't committing mass genocide nor does it seem like they plan too. Skyrim is the land of the Nords while Aryans come from the north of India and (says Hitler) settled in Scandinavia, the comparison doesn't work. You're also forgetting the part where Skyrim only wishes to be it's own country ruled by themselves contrary to a foreign one, I don't see how this is "bad." I don't really see the connection, yes they're a bit racist (some) and nationalistic but comparing them to Nazi Germany is just ridiculous.

::Imperial Stormtroopers, lookout for someone with the name skywalker, me thinks t'is an easter egg[[Special:Contributions/112.81.111.122|112.81.111.122]] 06:47, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:::The Stormcloaks as an institution are probably presented more favourably than the Empire, although personally their leader Ulfric is apparently a racist judging from the Argonians and Dumner {{unsigned|82.69.64.217|16:55, 16 November 2011}}

::::The Stormcloaks are racist, war-mongering fanatic nationalists with a touch of religious zealotry. The Imperials are fascist, dehumanizing imperialists who allow slavery. They are both, essentially, Nazis - they both have defining traits of evil factions. They also have good sides - the Imperials promote peace, order, and unity. The Imperial dream is an empire invictus, a glorious Rome that will never fall, a beacon of faith and enlightenment to guide all of Tamriel through the coming age. The Stormcloaks advocate freedom. The Stormcloak dream is a free Skyrim, where every man is his own and beholden to no other, where justice is upheld by the strong and the weak are not suffered to rule. Either faction has potential, and as the Dragonborn, you can bring out the best in them. - [[Special:Contributions/98.111.8.46|98.111.8.46]] 18:29, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:::::^ uh no, the empire was the driving force behind the abolition of slavery in morrowind {{Unsigned|72.148.110.26|22:38, 7 December 2011}}

:::::: I have to side with the above statement, The Thalmor look at the non-elven races as inferior to themselves, but the Empire treats its citizens equally. At least the Septim Dynasty did. I don't know Titus Mede II's policy, but slavery was outlawed and all citizens treated fairly (save for Morrowind, where the Dunmer believed the Armistice allowed for the Dunmer to retain their ancient rights(such as slavery) upon joining the Septim Empire). And for the original question, Good or Bad is a perspective issue. Look at the history of the two warring factions and infer that for yourself. I for one believe the Nords are exercising a legitimate right to begin a new government to replace the one they have lost faith in. But you could also argue that Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak just wants to establish himself as leader of the nation for his own reasons. In short, without a longer paragraph, the Stormcloaks and the Empire are as good or as bad as you want them to be. [[User:Eric Snowmane|Eric Snowmane]] 22:58, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

{{od}} While it is hard to decide which is the lesser evil... choosing side may not be that hard. I originally abandon Quests-line for both side but found out I can't get Hjerim (may not get it even if I do take sides…), still hasn't taken side… but the Imperial seem better if I do choose, for the following reasons.

If you want an ethical reason to choose sides…... you shouldn't just be thinking which side has better views but also those people effected:

:'''Whiterun''' - Jarl Balgruuf the Greater will get replace & Whiterun ruin if Stormcloak win & frankly he is the best Jarl I have seen in the game.

:'''Riften''' - Either Maven or Laila becomes Jarl makes very little different since Maven is in control either way.

:'''Winterhold''' - Jarl Korir hates mages & wants to ban them... his Imperial replacement Kraldar however, consider the Arch-mage personal friend & sympathic to the college, which I think would be better for Winterhold & Skyrim.

:'''Falkreath''' - The down side of Imperial win is Siddgeir stay (I may try killing him stealth)... but his uncle Dengeir of Stuhn is already out but still highly respect by the hold, so it wouldn't be that bad.

:'''Solitude''' - I think Elisif is fine & I don't like the idea that she & other Jarls get banish to the basement if the Imperial lose. Haven't met her replacement so can't tell what she is like.

:'''Windhelm''' - I like Ulfric's replacements Brunwulf a lot more than Ulfric, he will do right by Windhelm. Impressions of Ulfric's intention is more conqueror than liberator… I think he care more his 'vision' of Skyrim than for his people.

:'''Markarth''' - Jarl Igmund may be rude but I think the Silver-Blood family is a lot worst. I am supportive of the Forsworn causes anyway so Igmund is preferred.

:'''Morthal''' - I think Idgrod Ravencrone does care for her people... don't know about her Stormcloak replacement.

:'''Dawnstar''' - Don't know much about either side but from what I read, Imperial replacement seem to be better choice.

So in general, I think Imperial side have the better quality of Jarls if they were to win & would be better for Skyrim. My only beef with the empire is the banning of Talos & Thalmor but banning religion is easier said than done… with or without Stormcloak, Talos worship will survive. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.9.10|202.156.9.10]] 15:36, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

:I don't think that either side can be good or bad, both sides are fighting for what they think is right. I think either side you choose wouldn't affect your character to be good or bad. [[User:JackTurbo95|JackTurbo95]] 15:39, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

::: That the thing… it isn't really about good or bad in such terms. I think the better way of putting it is the OP is looking for "the path of least Damage" or "the needs of the many", so to speak. Therefore the answer should be in the changing of Jarls for the holds… which from where I reach in the game, Imperial side seem to result in larger number of more benevolent Jarls… Higher number of Stormcloak Jarls tend to be xenophobic & paranoid. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.9.10|202.156.9.10]] 12:05, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

::Spoilers. Keep in mind that you do get to kill the emperor. So HIS policies are less important. The Stormcloaks are essentially Hitler's Arian race. They want to purge all elves, magic users, beast races, and Redguard from Skyrim (and likely expand if they gain power). They attempt to create civil unrest by murdering the high king, just so Ulfric, who is not the best choice for king, can rule.

::The Empire on the other hand has generally been a force of fairness and equality. While some individuals are repulsive, as a whole the empire, and unity of Tamriel, is better for the peoples of all races. As for the Thalmor, well they are an enemy force that needs to be destroyed, but they are enemies to both the Empire and the Stormcloaks, even if the empire may have been forced to surrender to their control. It's interesting how even after thousands of years living side by side, man and mer can't get along.--[[User:Liudeius|Liudeius]] 22:56, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I don't know guys. Is standing up against a tyrant who commands your lawmakers through strings, and forbids your religion bad? --[[User:Ravage|Ravage]] 03:32, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

::::That's not what you are doing though. You can be anti-empire without supporting the Stormcloaks. Supporting the Stormcloaks is supporting eventual genocide of all non-Nord races.
::::*The empire is ruled by a tyrant no more than the Stormcloaks would be, since they are both ruled by kingly individuals. You can even kill the emperor if you want, allowing a third choice for emperor other than the current weak one and Nord-Hitler.
::::*Of course the empire controls law, that's kind of the point of any structure of government, what is important is that it is fair law.
::::*It is fair law, with the exception of the Thalmor's banning of Talos. The Thalmor are enemies to both the Empire and the Stormcloaks. The Empire's banning of Talos is not willing, and is not even enforced by them.
::::*Actually, as represented in current Skyrim, Stendarr (supposed supporter of Talos) is MUCH more vile than the Thalmor. The Daedra actually exist and are EXACTLY the same beings as the Aedra (more powerful actually since they didn't lose energy forming Nirn). Talos (as more than a dead hero) likely doesn't exist. In such case, yes, Nord are idiots for worshiping a hero as a god. The Thalmor's killing of worshipers of Talos may still be wrong in this case, but the genocide from supporting the Stormcloaks is much worse since it's racially based and much more widespread.--[[User:Liudeius|Liudeius]] 02:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

::::Talos is real, remember the blood of the divins, or the blessing of talos.[[User:Br3admax|Br3admax]] 02:31, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::There is no good/bad right/wrong side, it´s just a lose-lose war orchestred by the Thalmor to break one of the fighting arms of the Empire. Or who forced the elves away from the Imperial City? Once the nords are taken care of, by seceding from the empire or just out of grudge from this war, the Thalmor are "only a Hammerfell away" of theyr goals.--[[User:Elfslayerx|Elfslayerx]] 11:53, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

{{od}} Many thanks to [[Special:Contributions/202.156.9.10|202.156.9.10]], i was really looking for such informations. This is really what is intersting here: what are the consequences on your choice on the world, how are each citizen affected, how are politics affected. Could this discussion be put on its own wiki page ? I think we could benefit from a good article, perhaps with more neutrality [[Special:Contributions/82.122.5.44|82.122.5.44]] 16:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, as stated, both have their bad sides. I personally am divided, but if forced to choose, I'd choose the Imperial Legion, purely because of timing. The Stormcloaks decided to wage war on the Empire BEFORE they finished the Thalmor, and whoever wins will be weakened by the bloodshed, making it all the easier for the Thalmor to conquor. If the rebels would of created a rebellion AFTER the war with the Thalmor, two things would happen. A. The Empire would be weakened, making their victory all the more assured. B. It would be a war about Talos, and about Ulfric being in power. Now, I think a point should be made. Before it is, let me assure you, both ingame and in reality, I despise racism in any form. That being said, the Stormcloaks are racist. Now, there is a difference between believing sterotypes and being supremeist. The Nords don't say "Oh Nords are the best race, and we deserve to rule over every other race," they say they want to rule their own homeland. If people didn't like their land, to be fair, they COULD leave into Empire territory. Also, they advocate freedom, as such, I highly doubt the Nords would enslave any other race, though they would be socially outcasted. The Thalmor are a perfect example of supremeists, as they believe their race is superior in all ways to the other races, and that they deserve to rule over them. Both are horrible horrible things, contributing to my supporting the Empire, but supremecy is far worse. Also, the Empire banning Talos worship was to appease the Thalmor and end bloodshed, they don't likely intend to enforce it once they're gone. On the same token, people say the Empire doesn't enforce it. That is a blatent lie, and you're listening to too much Empire propaganda. They allow the Thalmor to roam Skyrim and arrest people. Allowing it to happen is as bad as doing it yourself. Of course, this was directly caused by the Rebellion resisting the ban, causing the Thalmor to demand the Empire to crack down on the Talos ban. Lastly, the thought of Ulfric murdering the high king is preposterous. A challange was accepted by Nord tradition in the Nordic homelands of Skyrim, which he accepted to, knowing it could mean his death. This uproar wouuldn't of occured should he of won, it's just Empire propaganda. No matter how much it kills them, they cannot change Nordic culture. If he'd of declined and then perished, it would have been murder. Just some food for thought, playing the devil's advocate here, showing some counterexamples to some claims. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 21:17, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

== Commanders ==

I sided with the Imperial Army during the game and after the attack on windhelm the General tells you that you are obligated to attack and destroy any remaining stormcloak rebel camps. The only problem for me is that you can't kill the stormcloak commanders, their essential, so theres no way to get rid of them. Is there any quest for or having to do with the stormcloaks that will make the commanders unessential so i can kill them?

:im haveing the same problem but i sided witht he stormcloaks only i cant kill the imperial commanders would be nice if there was a way to actuly kill them of all most sounds like when you take a side it forgets to turn the other side commanders to non essential at least thats my gues [[Special:Contributions/86.164.147.58|86.164.147.58]] 15:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

::I'm also experiencing the same issue. It makes sense that there would be a quest for it, but I am unable to find one, even after several hours dedicated to this task.
:::I disabled essential status for a Stormcloak commander and cleared out the whole camp. There's no quest or any form of recognition whatsoever it seems. I guess "clear out the camps" is just a throwaway line, which is rather silly really. --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] 15:40, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

i have the same problems it looks like a side quest that was either cancelled and they simply forgot to remove it OR they forgot to activate it
did you try using the clear area command in the console on it?
:I'm also having this problem, except it's not much of a problem, because they make for good training dummies for my mage. [[User:Lord Irvine|Lord Irvine]] 18:57, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

== Stormcloaks quest line breaking game ==

I went through the entire quest line for this faction, and after it had been completed, I find that a number of things in-game are seemingly broken. Firstly, in both Whiterun and Solitude, buildings that were damaged during the respective quests to take both cities are still damaged, having the consequence in Whiterun of the player house being inaccessible, though the Jarl and Steward NPCs still speak as though the house is both present and accessible. Secondly, the Jarls in Riften seem to be confused - during the negotiation, Maven Black-briar was placed in Riften as Jarl, though at the end of the quest line both she and the previous Jarl are present in the city (and both identified as Jarl!). This has the consequence of confusing quests that require either NPC, rendering some quests unable to be completed.
Is there a way to manually update the city states using the console, or a way to force the game into 'completing' the stormcloaks quest line so this happens by itself, and is anyone else having this happen?
Is this possibly related to how questions are answered during the Greybeard Negotiation quest? Worth looking into. [[Special:Contributions/124.169.59.48|124.169.59.48]] 08:50, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

== When does the 'joining the stormcloaks' quest start excactly? ==

I edited in the name Riverwood in the article, 'when following Ralof to Riverwood the player will...' but I'm not sure if you need to follow him all the way there, or if he adds the quest earlier. Needs confirmation.--[[User:Ji e toy|Ji e toy]] 22:18, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

I didn't follow him at all - worked fine for me. He was waiting at the inn (for weeks!) [[User:Fallimar|Fallimar]] 03:23, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

==Beyond Good and Evil==
My question of which faction to join isn't based on morality- it's based on benefits.
While I support the Stormcloaks philosophically, it seems joining the Imperials has far more benefits.
The Stormcloaks page doesn't make mention of *any* benefits from joining, and if that is the case, I'd rather go with the Imperials.
The pages also give the impression that Windhelm will recover while Solitude will not;
If that's the case, I *definitely* want to go Imperial, as I have no desire to permanently destroy any locations.
Is this true? Are there any rewards for helping the Stormcloaks? Does Solitude eventually recover if you do?
Thanks in advance.
[[Special:Contributions/209.66.120.3|209.66.120.3]] 18:34, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
:Any city will recover after the attacks, aside from a couple of destroyed walls. From a RP standpoint you could consider the Stormcloaks being a good chance for getting new lands, the same goes for the empire. In-game, the rewards are the same.

I'm currently going through the stormcloaks quests again, an as i do im making the pages, the main benefits of the stromcloaks are: Levelled weapons (cant remember what quests but the last one defiantly gets you an enchanted leveled sword), stormcloak officer armor, Solitude does not get destroyed and the current jarl remains jarl of solitude. I also believe this is the only way to get the house in windhelm, as i got the quest for the one in solitude halfway through the stormcloaks questline, but ulfric gives you the permission to buy windhelms one after a few quests. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 08:08, 24 November 2011 (UTC))
:Wrong, I joined the legion and took Windhelm. After that the new jarl gave me permission to buy an estate in the city. Actually, he mentioned it as a prerequisite for naming me thane of Windhelm. I didn't buy it yet though, I just don't see any reason why I couldn't (unless there's a bug I don't know about).

== Stormcloaks Quest Line is broken? ==

I joined the Stormcloak rebellion, and every subsequent quest doesn't update correctly. I've had to go back restart/reload previous saves over and over. When I'm supposed to "join the men" and take a fort, the men won't be there. Then when I try to continue to take the fort on my own, the Imperial NPC's aren't there either. The quest then updates and says: Enemies remaining 0%. Am I the only one experiencing anything like this? (PS3 version)[[Special:Contributions/75.72.68.245|75.72.68.245]] 15:53, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

== Magick? ==

Does the stormcloaks really rely partially on destruction magick? At all? The main page on them says so, but I think this is pre-release info that was later changed or just wrong all along. [[User:Jyggorath|Jyggorath]] 22:03, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Not even close... have you seen them use ONE spell? i thought so

Stormcloacks hate magick like any other nord.[[User:Br3admax|Br3admax]] 15:54, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

== doesn't count as a questline? ==

I was just looking through my stats, and i have completed the stormcloaks quest line (a total of 9 quests according to the stats) however my questlines completed stat is still at 0. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 10:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC))
:Strange but still possible that only the guilds count and maybe the main quest. I don't see why it wouldn't count though.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 10:56, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

== place links ==

I thought i'd ask before changing this, i think that the links to the camps should be <nowiki>{{Place Link}}</Nowiki>s but i could be wrong...? ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 11:00, 6 January 2012 (UTC))
: In theory, yes. Try and change them and click show preview. That way, you can easily determine if the description is either too "short" or too "long" for place links to be used. Then, feel free to change the description on the individual pages and save all your place links. Hope that made sense! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 11:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

::A couple are missing descriptions so I'm going to go explore the holds and find them before i make the edit. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 11:16, 6 January 2012 (UTC))
::: Sounds good! I'm not sure you have to actually explore the holds in their entirety as the descriptions should just be very basic - a bit like [[Oblivion:Campsites|this]]. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 11:22, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

::::I couldn't actually find any of them, so i made a new character and im going to see if i can give the holds to the empire in the main quest and then do the stormcloaks quests and be directed straight to said camp, unfortunatley its midnight so its gotta wait till tomorrow. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 16:30, 6 January 2012 (UTC))

User talk:Roleplayer242621

2012-01-21T17:49:14Z

Roleplayer242621:

==Updated Status==
Not going to be online much anymore, I'm pretty much fed up with Bethesda right now. Probably selling Skyrim, was a huge let-down. Was all excited for it's release to realise they got lazy and used graphics to overcompensate for the terrible gameplay. Progressively, the company as a whole is going downhill. I'll still contribute to TES III and TES IV, might keep TES V in case they release some worth-while DLCs or patches since I'll never get half of my money back. Generally speaking, however, I'm going to be online less. Going to find a new game developer to support. Not even buying TES VI if it gets released.

Skyrim talk:Thalmor

2012-01-06T01:45:01Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Thalmor and Sneaking */

==Pick the wrong choices?==
I've had experiences with wandering Justicars where no matter what I said to them, they didn't believe me and attacked me immediately. All of the dialogue options led to this confrontation. "I worship Talos!" *attack!* "I don't worship Talos" - "You're lying! *attack!*" "Whatever" "You look like a heretic to me *attack!*" It's possible that it's because my character is Dunmer... but I kinda doubt it. [[User:Aresvallis|Aresvallis]] 00:31, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

:Even on my altmer, every response has led to an attack. [[Special:Contributions/72.179.51.26|72.179.51.26]] 18:45, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

::They seem to attack me on sight, although I have completed the main quest, so I think that they are always hostile or they always attack no matter what response is given.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:06, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:::It might depend on faction disposition or whether they're escorting a prisoner. When I first started encountering Justiciars they didn't attack me on sight unless I got too close for too long. I think I talked to a male altmer and he let me go, but that was very early in my game and the first time I tried talking to a Justiciar. They were escorting a prisoner. I've seen groups of one or two alone, as well. [[User:Aresvallis|Aresvallis]] 05:27, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm sure if they ask if you have something confess, then every choice leads to hostility. Even "[Remain Silent]" leads to this.
::I was attacked on sight too, around level 15, when I hadn't even advanced much in the main quest. Maybe it was because I had activated Talos's shrine in Whiterun (and still had the blessing). [[User:Rowena|Rowena]] 15:04, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

My personal theory is that the Justicar can tell what shrine you were most recently blessed at. I used to use the Talos Shrine in Whiterun to remove disease and get whatever benefits the blessing gives. The Justicars didn't like me. After I stopped using that Shrine, they don't seem to have a problem with me. Could also have to do with the Amulet of Talos. - Brongar[[Special:Contributions/98.163.4.39|98.163.4.39]] 03:24, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

== Execution Order ==

ive got the execution order around lvl 20, picking side with the empire and not the stormcloaks

:Same here, except I hadn't even chosen a side yet. [[Special:Contributions/71.165.198.149|71.165.198.149]] 20:14, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

::Have you killed any Thalmor, or been attacked by them?

:::I'm level 58, and have killed Thalmor at Northwatch Keep and Thalmor Embassy. Haven't gotten the execution order yet. Unless you mean that female Khajiit in Riften. I did initially choose the stormcloaks, though. then switched to the empire in the Jagged Crown quest. [[User:ForsakenOne|ForsakenOne]] 15:44, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

== Disappearances ==

Do the Thalmor disappear after a certain quest?

:No. [[User:Narzul|Narzul]] 15:18, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

== Imperials and the Thalmor ==

I think there is something mysterious going on between the Imperials and the Thalmor. Imperials seems reluctant to talk about them. For example asking Legate Rikke her opinion on the Thalmor she snaps: "This conversation is over." Might be the subject of a future DLC?

:It's probably because the Imperials hate the Thalmor just as much as the Nords, although they try not to say it. In fact. if you go to one of the imperial camps and talk to the Legate there, they will say that only the Empire can defeat the Thalmor.

== Location??? ==

i want to find a set of Glass armor for my collection and i heard that these guys wear it.anybody knows whats the best place to find them???

:I have never heard of the Thalmor wearing anything other than Elven, although the best location to find the Thalmor is Northwatch Keep, or the road between Solitude and Markarth.

::A few of them wear glass armor, but only at very high levels. Crafting one yourself might be safer.

== Disappointment ==

It's sad that despite their claim to fight in the name of 'mer supremacy' only altmers are part of the Thalmor in the game(and apparently, even in the lore). It would've been nice to see different races, but it just looks like a mix between inquisitors and nazis. [[Special:Contributions/82.243.194.53|82.243.194.53]] 22:12, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

That's more for the forums.[[User:Br3admax|Br3admax]] 15:12, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

== Do they care if you wear an Omelette of Talos? ==

What about if you wear the omelette and you have no clothing item (making it easier for them to see it)? Do they get offended?
"I know you want to attack but wait, I'm just going to put my armour back on....(45 minutes later)...there, okay now go!"

: They might forgive you if you serve them some ''omelette au fromage'' :)) (sorry, I just had to say that) [[User:Rowena|Rowena]] 19:42, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

::No, I don't think so. My player wears the bare-chested fur armor. I can clearly see the amulet of Talos i wear and the Thalmor don't react to it. [[User:ForsakenOne|ForsakenOne]] 15:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

== Thalmor v. Stormcloaks ==

Anyone else seen the groups of Stormcloaks engaging groups of Thalmor? I encountered one down near Falkreath. I was the only survivor, but while I got a bounty message, I then had another message after I finished off the last Thalmor that flashed past too fast for me to see it. No bounty at the end though. Hard to say why. [[User:Triaxx2|Triaxx2]] 08:42, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

The reason you got no bounty and the message you missed was probably "Last Witness Killed: xxx Bounty Removed"

last witness killed removes the bounty

== Thalmor and Sneaking ==

I'm under the impression that Thalmor have some sort of radar or heat vision, as they tend to notice me muffled, (sometimes invisible) with 100 sneak and a full sneak perk tree from behind, in the dark, and from a good distance away. Compare this to other leveled enemies, who I can sneak right up behind or on the flanks without any trouble (muffled, NOT invisisble, full sneak, in moderate light). Has anyone else encountered something similar? It should be mentioned if there's some truth to this.

: Now that you mention it, Northwatch Keep and Thalmor embassy have been the top two places where my sneaking barely works. My sneak was at around 74 at the time, with the one rank of the first perk. Everywhere else it works fine. At those two places, if they have line of sight on me, I soon get spotted. In other places and with other enemies, I can get almost near enough to sneak attack with an axe.[[User:ForsakenOne|ForsakenOne]] 16:00, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, I haven't visited their tower (And will now be doing so to double-check tomarrow if I remember) but on their wandering patrolls I was able to backstab one of them before being noticed, 4/5 Stealth and Dark Brotherhood Boots (muffled and silence being the revelence here). [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 01:45, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Pickpocket

2012-01-01T23:06:56Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Annoying glitch */ new section

== Perks ==
Just in case anybody wants to make this page, here are all the pickpocket perks:

'''Light Fingers''' (0/5)Pickpocketing bonus of 20% – Item weight and value reduce pickpocketing odds…

'''Night Thief''' Pickpocketing sleeping people almost always works…

'''Poisoned''' Place poisons in other people’s pockets silently to harm or kill…

'''Cutpurse''' Pickpocketing gold is 50% easier…

'''Extra Pockets''' Carrying capacity is increased by 100…

'''Keymaster''' Pickpocketing keys always works…

'''Misdirections''' You can pickpocket equipped weapons…

'''Perfect Touch''' You can pickpocket equipped items…

I'd do it myself but I would probably mess the whole thing up! [[User:RIM|RIM]] 13:42, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

:Done... Don't be worried about making mistakes, we'll clean them up for you. Besides, we're just starting work in Skyrim. It'll be very, very, hard to make mistakes in this namespace right now. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 14:10, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

::Alright I might try to make the Archery or Destruction page, I just didn't want to give everybody even more work to do. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 08:56, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

:::Already beat you to [[Skyrim:Archery|Archery]], but destruction is still available. Trust me, no one's complaining about people making mistakes. I've surely made plenty so far on this project alone. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 09:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

== Max Pickpocket Percent Chance ==

Can't seem to see more than 90% chance to pickpocket. These are my current statuses and perks
* Pickpocket Skill at 77
* Ring of Minor Def Hands (+15%)
* Perk: Light Fingers 3/5 (+60%)
* Perk: Night Thief (+25% if they're asleep)
* Perk: Cutpurse (+50% if pickpocketing gold)

An easy test is for me to remove all my gear (including the +15% ring) and look at someone's inventory via the pickpocket menu. I observe the highest percent is 90%.

When I reequip the ring that grants +15% pickpocket, I observe the item with 90% chance to pickpocket stays the same. No other items are any higher than 90%.

Additionally, I also observe the highest percent chance to pickpocket being 90% on a sleeping person.{{unsigned|66.25.49.136|12 November 2011}}

:Yes, from the game data it looks like there's a cap at 90%. Specifically, one of the game settings is <code>fPickpocketMaxChance</code>=90. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:05, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

== Evidence for "Item Type" Note? ==

"Pickpocketing chances vary between item types. For example, stealing arrows from an open quiver is much easier than stealing a heavy weapon."

I think that's entirely explainable by weight (arrows are zero weight) -- what evidence is there that "item type" matters?

:I would say there is no evidence, and I would vote to see any "RP" reasoning, such as quivers being open-face, removed from the article. The factors that matter are item weight and value. High weight and/or value: hard to pickpocket. Obviously, a heavy weapon has more weight and value than any arrow. I also take issue with the statement that jewelry is categorically easy to pickpocket. A basic silver ring has low weight and low value, but an expensive amulet or ring (an item planted for Delvin's Fishing jobs) with a high value (but low weight) is very difficult to pickpocket. [[User:PacifistFist|PacifistFist]] 13:34, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

== Stolen Flag ==

I can't be the only person to think about repeatedly pickpocketing and reverse pickpocketing a really expensive item to level this skill. I may have screwed up my experiment, but I couldn't seem to get any skill advance doing this (to a sleeping person). This might be because the item I gave him was stolen, or there might be a hidden flag on items which were reverse-pickpocketed. Another reason to suspect a flag; Wouldn't the radiant AI use a poison on a weapon? Perhaps there's a flag to tell it to drink the poison if it had been reverse pick-pocketed. Has anyone tested this further?
:Yep, I just tried it a few times and I can confirm it -- stealing something, giving it back then stealing it again does not increase your skill. I stole a ruby ring and gained 2 levels at once, then I placed it back, and stole it 6 times in a row -- the progress bar didn't moved at all. -- [[Special:Contributions/189.33.183.203|189.33.183.203]] 16:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Reverse pickpocketing items does not seem to increase skill at all... However, reverse pickpocketing a decent amount of gold seems to work well. It's taken some reloads when caught, but my 68 gold coins have helped me raise my pickpocket level to 75 so far and I haven't even escaped from Helgen Keep yet. Been placing and removing my gold on the Stormcloak soldier that tags along for a spell after the torture room in the tutorial. Anyway, use gold. So money! Edit: signature ([[User:Daedremor|Daedremor]] 07:16, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
:Gold works really well. I got to 100 pickpocket using the above method on Dark Brotherhood initiation quest victims. That place is great. At level 90+, ~700 gold guarantee one level up per pick. And if I forget to save and get caught, I get no bounty and I can just go out of shack, fast travel to nearest place, come back and keep on leveling. ([[User:ZekunD|ZekunD]] 10:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC))
::Thanks for the advice! Reversepickpocketing gold is probably the easiest and quickest way to farm-level Pickpocket. You just throw ~300 gold onto someone and take it back. You get XP every time for taking it back, and since it weighs nothing, your chances are maximal for the xp gained. It's not as good as training an under 50 skill and stealing the money back, but it's infinitely repeatable. [[Special:Contributions/208.206.3.254|208.206.3.254]] 17:23, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

== Keymaster ==

Is there some redeeming factor for this perk, or is it just completely worthless? From what I've seen, at 60+ pickpocket skill (the amount required for this perk), pickpocketing keys seems to have a 90% chance of succeeding pretty much always, even without it. [[User:Weroj|Weroj]] 05:05, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:I can only give you my opinion, which is that I agree completely on this perk's pointless existence. I do not use this perk but for somebody who chooses some hardcore roleplaying thief or that sort may be worthwhile. Another idea: maybe if you decide to only carry around a few lockpicks to make things harder for yourself... Then it can be useful but even then only on rare occasions.

== Idea ==

I read here that you can scroll through the items to get a better chance to pickpocket something. So if you scroll to an easy-to-get item, you get those odds instead? So what if there's nothing easy to pickpocket in their inventory... Would it then work to reverse-pickpocket an easy item, pickpocket the stuff you want with those odds, and then pickpocket your item back? Or am I missing a point here ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] 15:36, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:Closing the inventory you're stealing from and then reopening it seem to reset the chance of pickpocketting, while pickpocketting multiple items in a row would increase your chance to get caught. I don't know about scrolling through items though--[[Special:Contributions/193.252.26.70|193.252.26.70]] 09:31, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Sneak skill plus pickpocket skill ==

Is pickpocketing easier with a high sneak skill? Or are the 2 skills unrelated? I am interested in investing some points in the pickpocketing tree, but not if it is only viable to perform the skill with points in the sneak tree as well.[[Special:Contributions/208.84.58.199|208.84.58.199]] 19:28, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, sneak only affect how well you blend into the shadows. --[[Special:Contributions/205.155.154.172|205.155.154.172]] 19:30, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
::You can't pickpocket during combat, so if you want to pickpocket a bandit's weapons or armor off of him before fighting him, you have to use sneak to get close enough to them undetected. But, if you're just pickpocketing from people in town, sneaking doesn't seem to matter. [[Special:Contributions/208.206.3.254|208.206.3.254]] 21:02, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::actually, from my experience, if you are undetected by your target while you try to pickpocket you get much better odds then if you he sees you.
::::Are you telling me you can actually succeed pickpocketing someone who sees you? ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] 02:11, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::Yes. You just get a penalty and cannot use the Misdirection or Perfect Touch perks. [[Special:Contributions/208.206.3.254|208.206.3.254]] 16:18, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

==Misdirection and Perfect Touch: Worth It?==

I decided to try these out last night, and I have to say, I'm disappointed!
They don't seem to work at all like I was expecting.
For example, I would expect to be able to pickpocket a Guard's sword and armor, but I was only able to take what was normally available-
no sword or armor in his inventory. Is this a bug? Or are these skills only useful in very specific circumstances? Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/209.66.120.3|209.66.120.3]] 17:18, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

:It does not seem very reliable. I think it may have to do with your sneaking as well. Perhaps you need to pickpocket from an angle where they don't notice you. I've had much success pickpocketing from behind. It's quite fun to pickpocket someone until they're naked.--[[Special:Contributions/216.15.123.224|216.15.123.224]] 07:18, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

::Thanks- I tried again while hidden, and I was able to literally rob the guard naked(ish). It's nice to see the guards aren't all identical under their helmets. I'm still not sure this is worth the perk points, but it is quite fun! [[Special:Contributions/209.66.120.3|209.66.120.3]] 19:58, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

::: found it a bit usefull but not enough times to actually invest properly in pickpocket for it. it is possible to rob enemies prior to the combat and make the combat much easier. but the same enemies whom are target for these perks are exactly the enemies a sneaky character has no problem with. unless you can pickpocket bear claws i would rather just sneak attack those bandit leaders

::::Yeah, I would hardly call them the most useful perks, but Perfect Touch was worth it to me if for no other reason than being able to steal someone's visible clothing. It may have cost me a couple of perks to rob the Thalmor in Markarth Keep of all their clothes, but dammit, the laughs were WELL worth it :-) It's also a unique effect that no item or spell can reproduce, so I don't regret getting it one bit. [[Special:Contributions/209.66.120.3|209.66.120.3]] 21:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::I've been trying to find out whether to get them or not too. From looking around, it seems that it is impossible to steal heavy armor (too much weight and value for more than 0%) or unique equipment (not even shown) with them. Is this true? And are there still plenty of applications (including just for laughs) if it is? --[[User:Liudeius|Liudeius]] 23:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::Not true re: heavy armor- you can steal any armor that shows up, though it may be impossible/challenging without a high enough Pickpocket skill. And yes, it's true that certain people's items still don't show up in the list- for example, I was unable to steal the Executioner's Garb off of Ahtar. Jarls and Court Wizards also have clothing that cannot be taken. I'm not certain why this is, but it's definitely the exception, not the rule. The laugh applications are almost unlimited, but the situations where it will actually net you an advantage are pretty rare. You could theoretically pickpocket all the guards in a given city and then wipe them all out with ease, but I can't think of many reasons one would want to do that. I kept it just to humiliate people who annoy me :-) [[Special:Contributions/209.66.120.3|209.66.120.3]] 18:55, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::I'm considering starting a character based solely on Pickpocket, followed by Sneak and Lockpick. Are there any characters in the game sleeping while wearing glass armor and carrying Daedric daggers? Misdirection might be a very useful perk at low levels. The guaranteed 10% failure rate might be annoying.
::::::Misdirection, Poisoner and Perfect Touch allow you to play a thief character that never uses a weapon or casts a spell. There's no reason that every 100skill perk has to appeal to every player, but I agree that most people wont spend points on it.
::::::Has anyone started reverse engineering the formulas? [[User:NFR|NFR]] 18:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::::I figure you can't pickpocket certain apparel because they're not playable ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] 02:15, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::::There are also a few items that show up in characters' inventory but always have 0% chance to succeed so you can't pick it... This seems to be the case with followers' default armour, haven't noticed with anything else yet. [[User:Weroj|Weroj]] 12:37, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Heavy armor just weighs too much to pickpocket, I find. Even with 100 pickpocket, level 5 light fingers, +192% pickpocketing equipment, and a +146% pickpocketing enchantment, I can't steal Steel Armor from a follower. This means that I can never outfit the housecarls in light armor. Annoying.
::::::::::The problem is Light Fingers and that +Pickpocketing equipment/enchantments. If you are planning to steal heavy armor, you would have a better chance to steal if you took off ALL the +Pickpocketing equipment/enchantments and only put one point into Light Fingers. Light Fingers is a hindrance to you once you get 100 skill in Pickpocket. ~ansonmaddox 22:38, 20 December 2011
:::::::::Also, Misdirection/Perfect Touch can be quite useful for sneaky characters in human dungeons (you can't pickpocket Falmer, much to my annoyance). Unarmored bandits do little damage with their fists and die very fast. The only problem is that you need to keep all the armor and weapons in the area in your inventory, or they'll run and grab new armor/weapons from the room. They can loot chests and bodies too to find armor and weapons. They'll only do this if they are naked or weaponless, so you can probably reverse-pickpocket some crappy armor or daggers onto them to keep them from looting the room. I haven't tried that out yet. Of course, you need to be not in combat for it to work, but that's what shadow warrior is for!
:::::::::And yeah, some items cannot be pickpocketed, even if they can be obtained via other means. For instance, General Tullis's armor cannot be pickpocketed, but you can obtain it by killing him at the end of the Stormcloak army quests. Same with Stormcloak Officer Armor - you can't seem to pickpocket it off of the Stormcloak second in command, but you can get it by being in the army for a while. [[Special:Contributions/208.206.3.254|208.206.3.254]] 17:19, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::Ah yeah, you're right. I thought I saw the 0 percent thing happening with a follower's leather armor before, but it seems to work now. :)
::::::::::In regards to the usefulness of the perks, they're definitely gimped down from what I hoped to use them for: Pickpocketing unique/hard to find apparel/weapons, and picking followers' armour to equip them with whatever you want (smithing works much better to get them to wear other armour, I find. Too bad that doesn't work with clothing). The stuff you can pickpocket seems mostly limited to the generic stuff you might just as well find in a chest, though there are exceptions too (stuff rare enough not to appear in chests at least... eg. the Tavern Clothes, or the Mythic Dawn apparel). [[User:Weroj|Weroj]] 04:24, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

==Free Training in any skill combined with pickpocketing==

When you use a trainer in any skill the gold you pay him will go directly into his inventory. It is possible to pickpocket him and get all of your gold back. Do this after each level trained since the chances of pickpocketing large amounts of gold off of someone while they are awake are very slim.--[[Special:Contributions/216.15.123.224|216.15.123.224]] 07:22, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

:When you gain the ability to reverse pickpocket poisons it's a reliable way to get your gold back. I just head to windhelm and use a paralysis potion on the trainer there after I've paid her, she will fall and right before she gets up she's completely vulnerable. Steal all your money back in one go. [[User:GearlockT|GearlockT]] 17:59, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

==Poisoned==

Tried Poisoned yesterday (only clicking required perk for poisoned, means spent 3 on pickpocket), but seems wierd, when I tried murder someone by place 1 of 30 poison into her inventory, the game says my succeed chance is 0%, but actually I succeed murdered her by this...bug possibly?
:the game only calculates for the 30 poisens and not just for the one. same as trying to plant 200 gold when you have 2000 gold in your inventory.
::Are your chances to reverse pickpocket lowered if you try to give them a more expensive poison, or is it just the weight? [[User:NFR|NFR]] 19:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
:::I am playing new build based on poisons. With maxed alchemy and maxed enchanted gear for alchemy it is possible to make 65% weakness to poison, 32 dmg per 10sec (320 total) or 162 dmg poisons. One can deal insane and completly silent damage comparable to dagger backstabbing tho it wont work against undead (and poison resistant targets may not suffer as much). It of course ignores armor on the other hand. Someone with better english may put this info on the pickpocket skill page :)
:::* if reverse pickpocketing (RP) multiple SAME poisons from stack at once then applied effect is same as if you RP only one
:::* multiple poisons stack additive, remember, RP one by one, each RP attempt is checked against pickpocket skill and may fail which turns target hostile
:::* it is almost allways preferable to use lingering damage poisons for their higher damage/price, damage/vial_count ratio
:::* it is advisable to RP "weakness to poison" potions to victiom prior to RP damage poisons, you have to RP weakness porions first, then exit inventory and RP damage poisons, placing all at once wont count weakness effect
:::* multiple weakness poisons stack additive,
:::* multieffect poisons with weakness+damage wont count weakness effect (same as RP weakness and damage potions in one step, ie without exiting inventory after weakness potion RP)
:::* RP chance depends on poison price, pickpocket skill and pickpocket perks (with pickpocket skill 100, light fingers lvl1, odds are 50 % for 1000 gold worth potion, breakpoint for 90% is ~680 gold worth potion). EDITED --Moonraker 15:47, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

== Stealing Gold ==

Is the 2,000 gold limit with or without the Cutpurse perk? Does Cutpurse effect the limit? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 23:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

== Pickpocketing NPC ==

When I am pickpocketing NPCs' items/clothing/weapons, do they ever respawn their items? If it does, how long does it take for they to respawn?
:Some NPCs such as guards do but most people don't respawn clothes or weapons.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 16:01, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

== Annoying glitch ==

I just went to pickpocket someone, and reguardless of who it is, it says they already caught me. I question this skill's usefulness entirely, but how do I fix this? I thought waiting 24 hours cleared all atte,pts, and was hoping it'd clear the ones I never made. Never been to this city before, no bounty. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 23:06, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Blood on the Ice

2011-12-31T02:23:31Z

Roleplayer242621: /* No Further Quest Updates Triggering */ new section

==Amulet... What?==
I just wanted to point out the fact I had reported to Jarleif with the books, but I did not find an amulet. So I thought it rather strange I mentioned an amulet when I reported to him. I went back to check, found the amulet, and it appears to be stuck in my inventory now as a quest item ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] 21:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

:the amulet is the necromancers amulet, i found it straight away, but i finished the quest and it is still stuck in my inventory, thats obviously a bug ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 06:38, 16 November 2011 (UTC))

:The amulet is under a pile of Butcher flyers on a bookshelf. You have to move the flyers to find it.

==Off the trolley at step 13: '''resolved'''==
As soon as I hit step 13 and spoke with Jarleif, the court mage was arrested and the quest marked complete. No conversation options appeared for discussing the amulet with Calixto, and while Viola would discuss the flyers, nothing else happened (this is after the quest was "completed"). The books and amulet remained in inventory. [[Special:Contributions/205.200.11.161|205.200.11.161]] 17:09, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

That is why I prefer my alternative suggested path. There will be another murder in a day or two at which point the quest will resume.

(''original commenter here'') That didn't happen, but I figured out why. After a couple of days or so (I wasn't keeping really close track), seeing nothing was happening and the quest was marked complete, I sold the flyer and books to the general store in Whiterun. You have to keep them (not sure which one, but at least one) in inventory and wait several days (I think) before the conversation options with the court mage get back on track.

After maybe a month of game time I bought them back from the Whiterun general store, visited the court mage in his cell yet again, and ''voila'' - back on the trolley! [[Special:Contributions/205.200.11.161|205.200.11.161]] 15:15, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Quest Bug. ==

I completed the Imperial faction quests and the imperials now run Windhelm(not windhelm guards). I entered and exited Windhelm atleast 6 times manually(no fast travel in or out) and fast traveled once i had left the city to another city. I'd teleport back to the stables and run in manually. Afterwards I fast traveled to the stables, waited untill 2:00 a.m. and checked the graveyard. Not a soul in sight, let alone a body.

I tried using the setstage MS11 15 command to see if i could jump to another spot in the quest but it didnt even do anything. I think the Quest Id is wrong or something. Anyone have any ideas?
:I've tried several console commands, including setstage, startconversation, and set ms11enteringwindhelmcount etc. None of them works. Hope Creation Kit can be released soon. [[Special:Contributions/74.66.5.137|74.66.5.137]] 05:10, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
:I believe the quest won't happen once the imperials control the city. I guess the presence of a large military police force means night-prowling murderers can't move around freely to do what they do?
:From the official tech support: "Q: Cannot progress through “Blood on the Ice” quest after progressing through the Civil War. A: One of the key NPCs in this quest is a guard who is a member of the Stormcloaks. If the player sides with the Imperials during the Civil War and advances far enough, this guard will no longer be present. The player will have to revert to a save before this has occurred in order to continue to progress through this quest." So anyone know the ID of the guard?

I completed stormcloaks quest but when I came to graveyard at 2 am there wasn't any crime or something and I cand start this quest,anyone can help me?

p.s. I've entered and leaved the town many times

::I've looked into this for some more time. I discovered that the quest is kicked, for the 4th time you enter the Windhelm, but there's something preventing ms11 quest to start (ms11kicker works correctly. And so it seems ms11preessentializing). And that's the reason why setstage ms11 x cannot work. A new game will not encounter such problem. I'll continue to find out why. [[Special:Contributions/74.66.5.137|74.66.5.137]] 22:15, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

There is the answer www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/m9ija/on_the_quest_blood_on_the_ice_in_windhelm_halp/ , guy is still alive and is there but Quest is complete :
"Hey guys I think I figured it out.

I tried setting the stage to different points but upon saving and reloading a few times I found out that a particular pattern seems to trigger a victim being killed next to candlehearth hall.

This is the pattern - (all these are console commands, do each one in order)

setstage MS11b 15

setstage MS11b 10

setstage MS11b 20

Let me know if it works for any of you"

- Just tried it, doesn't seem to work

:Works for me. I used setstage ms11b 10 to start the second part of the Blood on the Ice Quest. I got stuck after completing the first part: I investigated Hjerim, took some of the "Beware the Butcher" pamphlets, the strange amulet beneath them and the two Butcher journals. The guards pointed me to Viola Giordano for the pamphlets and Calixo for the amulet. I chose to speak to Viola first who told me about the court wizard Wuunferth. The marker for Calixo vanished right after that step and I couldn't find him or enter his house without breaking into it. So I told Jorlief about my investigation and he arrested Wuunferth which ended the first part of the quest. I wasn't able to talk to Wuunferth in his prison cell...he would simply train me in destruction magic but no other topics were possible. There was no murder in the following days and weeks. Using setstage ms11b 10 allowed me to talk to Wuunferth about the new murder directly or you can find the murder victim next to Candlehearth Hall surrounded by guards and spectators. [[Special:Contributions/84.161.212.146|84.161.212.146]] 17:54, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

:Not working for me. [[Special:Contributions/74.66.5.137|74.66.5.137]] 19:08, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm currently experimenting with a new character to see if I can determine the exact point at which the console commands stop working, and hence the quest is unobtainable. I'm making a new save any time I progress in the Dark Brotherhood quest chain, then checking "setstage MS11 10" to see if the quest appears in my log... Let's hope this gets us somewhere. [[Special:Contributions/80.3.169.246|80.3.169.246]] 05:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

The quest "Blood on the Ice" wouldn't initiate for me. Here's how I got the house anyways:

While your mouse is over Jarleif enter these commands in console. It should give you the house and allow you to buy upgrades for it.

setstage a7b33 10

completequest ms11

completequest ms11b

-This one worked for me and allowed me to buy all the upgrades.

I'll add to this conversation - if that's a reply from Bethesda's tech support, that's *shocking*. The product is faulty (due to programming bug) and they are legally obliged to fix it. Now, with that rant out of the way, I too was stuck on this quest, and had completed the civil war quests and the imperials had taken over Windhelm. Even though the mage was supposedly locked up, he was in the palace and I was able to talk to him. He told me that the killer would strike in the stone quarter during the next night. Sure enough, in the marketplace, Calixto is there, as is Jora, a priest of Talos. I could not interact with Calixto ("this person is busy"). After reading this page, I learnt of the necromancer's amulet. I went back to the house, and found it. Strange that the mage talked about it, even though I'd never originally found it. Anyways, even then, I could not interact with Calixto, nor kill him. I ended up fast travelling to Solitude, then waited 12 hours and went back to Windhelm and straight to the marketplace. Sure enough, there was Calixto, now with a dagger in his hand, directly behind Jora about to kill her. I still could not interact with him. So, I simply exited the marketplace, and it triggered Calxito killing Jora. Calixto ran past me, I chased him down and killed him and got the quest completed, talk to the Jarl's aid message. I couldn't initially find him, so found and spoke with the new Jarl, who told me that I'd done his city a great service and that he'd make a house available to me, if I wanted to purchase it. I then went back downstairs and there the Jarl's aid was and I could buy the house and complete the quest fully, etc. No cheat codes entered. Hopefully that helps someone if they end up in the same position that I was in. [[User:Dpastern|Dpastern]] 15:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

:I have never heard of a company being "legally obligated" to fix bugs in their games. And I don't see anything, in any warranty or legal print that I can find, stating they are. Bethesda fixes their products out of courtesy to their marketing demographic, so that their products can be sold. But, if they want to stand by their product as is, then that is their decision. I just wanted to throw that into the air. [[User:Eric Snowmane|ES]][[User_talk:Eric Snowmane|T]]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|E]]•[[Special:Contributions/Eric_Snowmane|C]] 18:10, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

== Another Glitch Version ==

I talked to Viola and to Calixto about the Amulet and the Butcher. I have no option now to talk to the mage about anything other than buying spells or training in magic. I even talked to Jorlief, and he had nothing to say, and didn't offer to arrest the mage. Edit: I got the options to appear by going back to talk to Viola and asking her about the court mage, in contravention of the instructions on this page. Then I could talk to Wuunvferth.
:try reloading a save [[User:112jesse|112jesse]] 18:37, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

== Second Victim's Name ==

Does anyone know the name of the second victim? The first was Suzannah the Wicked, the buxom lady from the Inn. I successfully saved her, but I was just in the Inn, and someone was commenting: "I can't believe Isabella is gone. She was such a helpful girl." I was wondering if the second victim might have been Isabella, and the comment a glitch?
:The second ''in-game'' victim - the one that can be saved - is, from my experience, a random non-essential female. The first time I did this quest the victim was the elf from the stables, Arivanya. The second time I seem to recall it was the Argonian, Shahvee. Don't forget that there were Butcher victims ''before'' you start the quest, Isabella may well be one of those. [[Special:Contributions/80.3.169.246|80.3.169.246]] 04:57, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
isabella is the chick whose house he sets up in.the daughter
:Nope, that was Friga Shatter-Shield [[Special:Contributions/80.3.169.246|80.3.169.246]] 21:47, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

::For me, the second person killed is Arivanya (the girl who lives next to the Windhelm stables). This is my third playthrough, and all 3 times it has been Arivanya. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 05:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC))
:::For me, that woman is not the second to be killed, but rather the one I have to save from being killed in the market at the end, so it's not that simple. [[User:Thwgatrostys|Thwgatrostys]] 09:05, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

== Another interesting glitch ==

If you walk too close to the door to the butchers house when the quest is active (I took the quest, but never really began even questioning the people), the quest will glitch out and be set to "find a way to enter the house", deleting all previous journal entries for this quest. If me completing the dark brotherhood quests did not break the quest, this certainly did, as I needed to skip through it using the setstage command. [[Special:Contributions/31.18.80.120|31.18.80.120]] 16:56, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

== Removeing the Strange Amulet ==

If you finished the quest and the Strange Amulet is stuck in your inventory and you're on the PC.

Open the console

player.removeitem 000d2328 1

== Re-acquiring the amulet ==

It is possible to pickpocket the amulet off Calixto after you have sold it to him. With a pickpocket skill of around 50, my character had a 0% success chance. However, if you have the pickpocketing perk which adds 25% to your success rate when an NPC is sleeping, you can obtain the amulet from Calixto when he is sleeping (if you can't pick the master lock, just pickpocket his key during the day).

You can sell this back to him (he resumes dialogue as if you had mentioned the amulet to him before but decided not to sell it) and receive 500 gold again, and presumably you can repeat this indefinitely.

Selling the amulet immediately caused some issues with the quest progression for me: the only quest marker left pointed to Jorleif, who offered no further assistance, the mage had no special dialogue options, and I did not think to speak to Viola (even if I had, you need the pamphlet in your inventory to get the relevant dialogue anyway). Pickpocketing the amulet was the only way I could resolve the quest, since I was then able to talk to Viola and proceed normally, selling the amulet to Calixto again at the appropriate time.

So, this offers away to obtain all posible rewards for the quest: Gold for selling the amulet, the Necromancer's Amulet (with enchantment), and the good favour of the Windhelm guards.

== Extra Helpful/Important Notes. ==

I had some problems getting this quest down right the first time, as the walkthrough seems to be a little disjointed and missing either some key points (or at least points I feel would've helped immensely) or just some extra notes that might prove useful.

First being that Calixto has an extremely annoying schedule. He opens his curiosities store at around 9am and closes at around 5pm, and the only way to be able to speak with him about the amulet is when he's sitting in his chair at the store front. (Thus, breaking in is not an option; he'll just yell at you to get out).

Second, the walkthrough says to proceed with Wuunferth by selecting the "What do we do now?" option, after speaking to Calixto and Viola, then sell the amulet; this I found isn't physically possible. Apparently the murder is a scripted event, starting with when you select this option. (If after selecting this you attempt to sell the amulet, Calixto's store will be locked and you can actually find him lurking about the small marketplace.) (Also it apparently doesn't necessarily matter when you get to the Blacksmith's Quarters marketplace as long as it's after 9pm the night Wuunferth tells you of the murder).

BASICALLY: See Calixto to get amulet appraised, speak to Viola, then go and accuse Wuunferth. Don't proceed with "what happens now," and either choose the other option or end the conversation, jam back to Calixto's to sell the amulet, and back to Wuunferth to hear his prediction. Proceed from there, and you'll have 500 gold and an Amulet of Necromancy to show for it.

OI, sorry for all that babble, I hope it may have helped the one single person who had newb-level comprehension troubles as I did, LOL. OTL
[[Special:Contributions/69.76.222.152|69.76.222.152]] 07:59, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

FROM ANOTHER PLAYER: the above player's advice have been tested on PC and verified working, ty.

:Actually, you can't sell the amulet after framing Wuunferth in discussion with Jorleif. You need to first speak to Calixto and Viola, at this point you need to sell the amulet. As soon as you've framed Wuunferth you can't sell the amulet to Calixto. [[User:Mkxv|Mkxv]] 20:58, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Necromancer Amulet - removed bug ==

''If you have Wuunferth arrested, then the Necromancer Amulet cannot be obtained. It can be obtained by entering <code>player.additem 000c891d 1</code> into the console.''
:As for as I know, this is untrue. I sold the amulet to Calixto, then reported back to Jorleif and had Wuunferth arrested. When I came back sometime later in Windhelm, another murder had occured and I was told to patrol the Stone Quarter. I killed Calixto, and he had the Necromancer Amulet on his body. I was able to retrieve it from his body. The quest is done, and I'm free to do whatever I want with it. [[User:Wolok gro-Barok|Wolok gro-Barok]] 16:30, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Calixto wont Die? ==

never sold the amulet. never saw a second murder. just saw him book it to the house after i talked to the wizard in the dungeon. so i followed him and he attacks me but he wont die and the guards run away from him when he follows me out of the house. im playing on 360 so console commands arent an option. any help?

Same as above, also the last two corpses are missing; the one to continue the quest after locking up the mage (though the guard still speaks to you about her) and the next victim in the market place, though the area is cluttered with things being knocked off nearby stalls as if there's been a struggle. Left Palace of the Kings to see Calixto running through the streets to the house, kicks off when entering, won't die, won't speak, won't pickpocket. Decorations are available though, just quest is incomplete again.

-I have the same bug, and even on PC, the "setessential <base id> 0" command does nothing.

Found these console commands as a fix; encountered the same issue: 
PRID 0001B11D 
DISABLE 
SETSTAGE MS11B 20 
[[User:Sramdi|Sramdi]] 05:44, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

== locked curiosity museum bug (360) ==

So I was playing through without reading any guides (thus not knowing how to avoid certain bugs), I ended up getting the fliers and amulet and then immediately going to the steward to accuse the mage. I did *not* speak to Calixto to get the amulet identified. It marked the quest complete, and I tried to go to Calixto because the amulet was still stuck in my inventory, but his house was locked no matter the time of day or night. After a bit, I decided to say screw it and broke in. He was in there and was none too happy with me having broken in. I couldn't get him to talk to me so I just ran out before I earned a bounty/attack. I then forgot about this quest for a few game months, going around and doing other various quests.

At some point, I read here that the quest wasn't actually completed, but also saw the bug about breaking in and decided to see if I could finish it anyway. I went to the dungeons and talked to the mage guy, and found out about the second murder and was told when the next one was. I went to Calixo's house, picked the lock, went in and he was not inside. I went in and out a few times, then fast traveled to Windhelm. When I went back to the house it was actually unlocked (you know how even after you pick a door lock it often still mentions "pick lock: master" that had gone away).

Wandering around the inn the next night, I never actually saw the murder, Calixo or the girl. It was later on in the day that I went to where the market stalls were and there in front of everyone Calixo knifed the next woman. I killed him, reported to the jarl and everything seems to be fixed.

I'm not sure what, if anything, got it to finally let him out, although I'm pretty sure it happened at some point prior because I had visited the town a few times in the time between first "completing" and coming back, and on at least one of those times I broke into the house and there was no one there, but I did not take any further action on this quest.

: Sorry, but this seems really odd. As I understand your post, you broke into his museum, were told to leave then left for months and when you returned, he was 'buggy'? I realize you also added a bug note on the article, but I'm afraid this cannot be tested - and will therefore be removed to this very talk page when I launch my revamp. Maybe in time, the CK can tell us more but for now I think it's too unlikely to be a common problem. Has anyone else encountered this problem?? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 00:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

:: Yes - this same thing happened to me, at lvl 16 on PC. I talked to Calixto but did not sell the amulet. Then went to try to find Viola, but she had disappeared. Since I couldn't find her, I thought maybe I had to sell the amulet (hadn't tried looking online yet) and went back to Calixto's house - but it was locked (Expert). I waited all day, but it never unlocked. Finally I broke in, and he says something like "You aren't supposed to be in here" and gets up and seems mad. You cannot talk to him at that point. I used the Viola bug fix (I added below) where I res Viola, and I was able to finish that part of the quest (despite having never sold the amulet). I will look to see if Calixto remains locked in his house. {{unsigned|98.169.194.108|07:29, 24 December 2011}}

::: Looking at my old response in this thread, I realize it is time for us to figure out ''why'' these bugs happen, not just if they happen. Over the next few days, I'll try and read through this entire talk page and get all the unresolved bugs written down. Once I'm done I'll archive most of this talk page to avoid confusion - feel free top start a new "unresolved bugs" topic at the bottom of this page if you can; it's easier to keep track that way, and easier for others to help out. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 07:37, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

:::: Figured out a couple more things. (1) After having talked to Viola (after she disappeared and had to be res'd), reported the mage to the steward, and finishing this part of the quest without selling the amulet, Calixto does remain locked in his house. However, if you wait next to his house until 5pm he comes out in order to go to the inn to eat. You can then talk to him, but he says nothing of consequence and you can't sell the amulet to him (I assume because the quest is now complete). (2) However, I went back and reloaded to before I res'd Viola, but at a point after she had disappeared. If I can find Calixto at this stage then I can ask him to buy the amulet ("About that amulet..."). However, he does go and lock himself in his house, despite the quest being at a stage where you are supposed to be able to talk to him. Again, if I wait till 5pm he comes out. In addition, if I refuse to sell the amulet the quest marker disappears from Calixto, but I can reactivate the quest marker on Calixto by going back to the Jarl's steward and asking him about the amulet again. (3) I can sell the amulet to Calixto, then res Viola, and then finish the quest. So it does not seem to matter whether I sell the amulet or not, the real hang-up on the quest was Viola disappearing. Is it possible that the quest is scripted to have Calixto hide in his house on purpose after the amulet is brought to him, in the sense that he is now worried about being discovered? Note that I have not progressed far enough yet to find out whether the new (or 2nd?) murders happen - I've only gotten to the point of reporting the mage to the Jarl's steward. Peace. -- 24, Dec 2011

== Viola in unreachable place? ==

I've reached the point to talk to Viola, and according to quest markers she's somewhere *outdoors* at Candlehearth. Checking indoors indicated that she was outdoors, going outdoors gave her a 'nearby' marker but it was in the middle of the Candlehearth building. I circled around a few times and wasn't able to find her. She seems to have clipped into the building. Will probably have to use the noclip code to find her. :( Edit: Found her body under the ground under the inn. She was dead, something had killed her. Potentially me in the past. So much for that quest... :)

this happened to me. I reloaded a save from before I returned her stolen ring and that fixed it :) [[Special:Contributions/178.96.133.40|178.96.133.40]] 23:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

* Same here. It worked fine for me to 'tcl' to get to her, select her, do 'resurrect 1', move back out and 'moveto player', turn clipping back on, then 'moveto player' again to get her on the ground. She'll spin around like a top, but you can talk to her and progress the quest normally. Do 'moveto player' from a few more places and it'll reduce the spinning. (I would add this as a bug, since it's happened to multiple people in the same way (so it isn't just a fluke), but the last bug I tried to add to the page was immediately deleted. Someone else can do it.) [[User:Thwgatrostys|Thwgatrostys]] 02:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

== Hjerim workaround ==

Ok, so I couldn't do the Blood on the Ice quest, not sure why but it was broke. But, straight to the point. I wanted Hjerim. By trying multiple things I found here, and other places, I managed to unlock the house, and am able to purchase decorations from the Jarls steward, house is unlocked. So far so good. This is what I did.

First buy the house, you must have 12,000 gold on you for it to work.

setstage 000A7B33 10

Second, I dont think this did anything, but this is what I did, so try it. lol. What I did was I forced the dialog to get the decorations. What I did was, I walked up to the steward and had my crosshair hovering over him. Went into console and put...

say 000E67B8
say 000E67B6
say 000E67BA
say 000E67B5
say 000E67B4
say 000E67B9
say 000F726A

That didn't do anything but give me back a bunch of crap about faction and quest stuff. So then I thought, hey I didn't finish BOTI yet... So, I entered...

completequest MS11

Once I did that I talked to the steward, still no decorations. So I went back to the console and I entered in a nerd rage.

say 000F726A
say 000F726A
say 000F726A
say 000E67B9

Then, I talked to the steward. Guess what? I can buy decorations! and they work!! hahahahaha. Just make sure you clean up the blood first.

Some other things I tried was resetting the at with ResetAI on that Wicked chick and Calixco but that didnt work either. Im stocked this works for now. I can finally continue on with my life in Skyrim.

Brought to you by: Vitalsine

-------------------------

Thanks Vitalsine, this helped me a lot; however, I'm having a few issues following this route. Although I do get Hjerim and all of the upgrades, I cannot get the blood out of Hjerim. I have selected the option several times, but it never removes the blood, overturned chairs, cobwebs, etc. Is there a console command to force this to work? I'll keep working on this in the meantime.

--Ael`Lynes

-------------------------

Still no luck cleaning the blood out. I went through and "MarkForDelete" all the junk, and that worked ok. Just have to be very careful. Sorry I didn't mention this before, I totally forgot to include that the murder scene cannot be cleaned. It seems, if you use the 'say 000F726A' before completing the quests it gives you this weird answer about a quest not being done. So, somewhere along the lines, there is another quest we need to 'complete'. We just need to find the code out.

--Vitalsine

-------------------------

FYI, I've found that the "say" commands were unnecessary. Here is all I did:

setstage a7b33 10

completequest ms11

completequest ms11b

And that was enough. I'm thinking maybe the "ms11b" quest helped me with that. I still had to "MarkForDelete" all the extra stuff still in the house, but I was able to become Thane as well as purchase the decorations and "remove the murderer's mess", which removed the blood.

--Bovine

== InvestigationTarget ==

I stole the Hjerim key from Nova, went into house and approached the cupboard having a bunch of papers. At first the tooltip hinted an Investigate action with an InvestigationTarget target. Pressing the action key had no response. After looking around a bit I could finally take some flyers and the amulet and investigate the real target.
:I have the same problem and I still haven't been able to trigger the quest.
:Help?
I have this too and regardless of the fact that ive picked up the butchers journals and all the fliers the quest still will not trigger.
:I read that if you take the Butcher's Journal (the one in Calixto's chest) the quest is simply blocked, that may be the reason why. If anyone never took Calixto's Journal and still got that InvestigationTarget investigate glitch and can't trigger the quest, it would be interesting to let us know as it would prove it's actually not related.--[[Special:Contributions/92.103.220.180|92.103.220.180]] 16:02, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
:: wasn't related for me. breaking into Hjerim was the first workaround I tried - got the Investigate InvestigationTarget glitch. AFTER entering Hjerim failed to kick the quest, I went to calixto's curiosties to see if I could find something - picked the chest up in the loft and found the journal. something to note tho - I SQV'd the quest to see what I could see - turns out the entire quest is disabled for me. anybody know how to "enable" a quest? I've got the full list of Gamebryo commands and I'm not seeing anything promising. [[Special:Contributions/98.245.17.198|98.245.17.198]] 04:16, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

== Jarleif glitch? ==

I don't remember how I started this quest but I definitely haven't purchased a home here yet. Anyway, I'm doing the mission, all is well except one of the tasks is "Get assistance from the Jarleif" except I have talked to him multiple times and he never says anything related to the quest. The white arrow is still over his head, directing me to talk to him. Has this happened to anyone else? Any ideas on how to fix this?

:I have this problem too (xbox), no idea how to fix it. Seems like this whole quest is very buggy.

:Confirmed on PS3 aswell. I haven't been able to progress any further.
:Confirmed on PC too. Even with the patch 1.3

::PS3: Had a similar issue, turns out that comes at the end. Just examine the murder scene by following the blood to Hjerim, and progress with the quest. Completed it with no issue.
::: Jorleif is a bit bugged, but nothing quest-breaking. He is only really useful at the beginning of the quest when he tasks you with investigating the murder; otherwise, you can go to any guard and get the same help. And no, even if the Objective to ask him for clues never gets completed, the quest will. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 08:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

== Mistake in Bugs Section? ==

''Selling the Strange Amulet to Calixto before speaking to Wuunferth prevents the latter from being spoken to about it. Therefore, it is advised that you only sell the amulet after confronting Wuunferth.''

I didn't have this issue; I sold the Strange Amulet to Calixto and the quest progressed fine. I had the same dialogue without the Strange Amulet that I had with it. Anyone else experienced this so that it can be changed?--[[User:Kuribattaraya|Kuribattaraya]] 13:25, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

== Moved to talk page ==

* Certain choices made during the Dark Brotherhood questline may prevent this quest from progressing properly.

- Removed this from the main article, as it doesn't make sense to list it without giving examples of what some of those choices might be. [[Special:Contributions/205.133.160.56|205.133.160.56]] 19:25, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Strange Amulet....
I found the strange amulet on the cupboard, however Viola still tells me to look on the cupboard.
I spoke to Calixto and didnt sell, THEN to the mage and had no option??? so i went back and sold it to Calixto and nothing has happened :/
This is the second quest now that i havnt been able to do due to problems and really annoys me!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blood on the Ice

If Blood on the ice didnt trigger for you, but you just want the house. then there is an easy way to get it. In the quest you get the key from some shatter-shield woman. but if it doesnt trigger then the option never appears. This is what you do,

First
Kill Viola whats-her-face (usually walks around in the courtyard)

Second
Break into house shatter-shield at night and go to the top floor, there is a woman laying in the floor next to a bed to the right of the staircase, this is the shatter-shield woman you got the key from, search her body and close by to find the farewell letter and the key to the house.

Courtesy of AsaltineCracker (360) aka senti-mentel (ps3)

== Possible cause for the quest not triggering ==

It really bugged me that I couldn't do this quest. So, for the hell of it, I created a new character, got to Windhelm and again nothing happened... After that I got frustrated and made another character, but this time i didn't use the save after the intro which takes me directly to the creation menu but started a new game. And voila, suddenly the quest triggered the 4th time I entered Windhelm. I wasn't quite happy with my choice for the stormcloaks on this character, so I rerolled by using the savegame after the intro, hoping the quest would work now as well. And voila, the quest won't trigger AGAIN! So if you start a new character and want to make Blood on the Ice working you might have to start all over again. Tried it one more time earlier today, again with a completely new game and the quest triggered as it's supposed to. So that might be a reason, correct me if not.
Hope it helps {{unsigned|79.215.231.184|21:50, 29 November 2011}}

:This has been bugging me as well. I was able to find two save points of my characters, inbetween which the bug must have taken effect. After wasting a lot of time trying to reproduce every quest stage I came up with this: <code>sqv ms11kicker</code> shows some variables that might be related to triggering the event. Two seem rather interesting: <code>GameDaysPassed</code> and <code>MS11EnteringWindhelmCount</code>. Both my save games had <code>MS11EnteringWindhelmCount</code> set to 3, but one had GameDaysPassed set to ~240 (working), the other ~250 (bugged).
:After a lot of tryouts, I'm convinced that
:- the event triggers when <code>MS11EnteringWindhelmCount</code> is at least 3 (4 after entering) -> already known 
:- the event only triggers if GameDaysPassed is below 245 when entering 
:By changing GameDaysPassed ("set GameDaysPassed to xxx") I was able to control whether the event would be triggered or not in both of my save games.

:However, once you have entered Windhelm (the 4th?) time with more than 245 days, you can't fix it that way (even after setting <code>MS11EnteringWindhelmCount</code> to 3). Not sure why, the relevant quest states seem to be left unchanged. So this doesn't really help fixing the problem, unfortunately.

:Other than that I found out that: 
:- if the event can still be triggered, you can start the quest by picking up items inside Hjerim (Requires Key) 
:- if the event is already triggered, you can start the quest by entering Hjerim (Master Lock) 
:- if the event can't be triggered anymore, none of the above will start the quest (Hjerim Requires Key) 

::Confirmation on that. I can't trigger the event on a save with more than 245 gamedays passed, although the quest is, according to <code>sqv ms11preessentializing</code>, still able to be triggered. All important actors of the quest are still alive, as well. Resetting their AI didn't help, either. Setting back the enteringwindhelmcount to 3 and the gamedayspassed to 240 doesn't trigger the effect, unfortunately, as explained above, since I am certain of having entered Windhelm with more than 245 gamedays played at least once.

::I was able to trigger the event on an earlier save file though, not having had more than 245 gamedays passed and not having progressed through the imperial quest line so much.

::: I was unable to trigger the quest by taking items from Hjerim. My GameDaysPassed is only 108 (but 111 by the script counter); EnteringWindhelmCount is 45. I tried lowering this to 3 (and 4), but was still unable to trigger the quest or the graveside murder.

:::: Same. I obtained the key and both books from Hjerim. My gamedayspassed is 145 and enteringwindhelmcount is 22. Could not force the quest to start by the above methods.

::::: This seems to have been fixed anyways.

:-- {{unsigned|92.230.242.154|02:34, 1 December 2011}}

'''Interesting fact'''

I'm playing too with a savegame loaded after the intro and encounter too the problem that blood and ice is not triggering (doesn't matter which savegame I choose. Tried a few where I have no quest finished from the civil war quest line. Tried one where I finished the civil war quest line for the empire and tried one where I was pretty advanced for the stormcloacks). Since I assume that many people out there made a savegame after the intro to fast forward the character creation (in case they didn't like their first character they created) it makes sense that so many people encounter the blood and ice bug. It would be interessting if the people who doesn't encounter the problem that blood and ice not triggering know whether they play with a character that hast started all over from the beginning, including the intro.
Or the opposite way, who plays whith a savegame after the intro is encountering the bug? (This might be the better question, since poeple with no problems don't read much about this issue I guess) --[[Special:Contributions/92.106.121.47|92.106.121.47]] 13:13, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:According to the Game Guide,the quest will start after entering (and leaving) town four times. I've done some tests and it is true. Don't know what happens if you purchase the house first (can you even do that without triggering the quest, and if yes, how?). Can't really be bothered with the 245-day limit, even if it worth mentioning somewhere. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 13:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

On that note, i was able to purchase the house in windhelm before blood and ice was over. I just stumbled on the murder scene and had started the investigation, then went to speak to the jarl just for i dont know why(lol). Afterward i spoke to the steward and was able to puschase a house in windhelm, it said 12000 but i didnt know how much i had on me at the time, knowing i had a lot i just said sure ill take it. I was able to purchase the house for 9300 or so, witnesses in the (real life) room as surprised as i was. Then i went to check it out to make sure, and i was able to walk into the house. It was mine, but no housecarl. Then i went on a mission for loot to get it decorated, without paying the jarl another visit i went to my house in whiterun. Took all of my gems and a couple other expensive items i had saved, cleaned out the vendors in whiterun, then riften, and finaly a little back in windhelm. Now i went to decorate, spoke to steward and the option was not available. Tried everything from running back to the house, to finishing my stormcloak quest, then i got the housecarl after talking to jarl, now he is there being as ginger as ever sitting in the stangely lighted, empty, semi-wannabe nice house that cant be decorated. Left windhelm one time entirely once realized that it couldnt be decorated to see if that would work, nothing, then said forget it and have been playing a lot since. i check back regularly, Ulfric and the steward remain the same, no difference in dialog, no option to decorate. So i searched for fixes, and then realised it had to do with blood on the ice, checked quest log and it has the quest listed, lights up the crime scene and the steward, but no people at crime scene and still no dialog from steward. Hope this helps i guess! This was all on a PC version. -kosher
P.S. good job on figuring out the stuff above all of this now seamingly meaningless long-winded explanation of my experience with the infamous pain in the ass blood on the ice glitch.

I found a new factor that cause the quest not be triggering. That is The Companions's Quest: Take Up Arms. Once "Take Up Arms" finished, no crime scene in Windhelm. What I tried was use the code "set MS11EnteringWindhelmCount to 6", and after each object of that quest, I quicksave and fasttravel to Windhelm. Before the quest finish, every tries was success. I do this experiment in the same character but different process of the game(before and after the main quest). The only thing I didn't try is different character. Also, I didn't try to break in Hjerim before the crime scene. So, right now, I want to see if I can go back to unfinish "Take Up Arms". -- Kijin {{uns|67.160.86.90|05:32, 13 December 2011}}
: Sorry, but I wrote the entire article using a save after Take Up Arms was completed, although I'd admit the save had never set foot in Windhelm. I just used a bit of patience and followed the 4-day rule, then the quest triggered. I'll see if I can run some tests again at some point, even if I really think the CK is worth waiting for - just to get some better answers and maybe even a completely reliable technique. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 06:58, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

== I was stuck, the quest arrow pointed to Viola but she had no dialogue options. Here's what fixed it ==

In order to go into dialogue with Viola you need four items in your inventory: the strange amulet, the two butcher journals, and the "Beware of the Butcher" notice. I didn't bother taking the notice with me so I got stuck and very frustrated, but this seems to have fixed it. Very buggy quest in general though.

== Condition of murder scene trigger and possible to missed the scene? ==
I think condition of murder scene trigger is MS11EnteringWindhelmCount and time of the day.

*MS11EnteringWindhelmCount has to be over/at 4 however (not sure if it is intended or not) boundary of city is not well defined. For instance 2nd bridge after Anga's mill triggers MS11EnteringWindhelmCount and Windhdlm Stable triggers another MS11EnteringWindhelmCount, but entering the gate does not trigger MS11EnteringWindhelmCount. Thus exiting and re-etnring through gate does not count as entering Windhelm.
*Murder Scene does not occur during day. From same quick save (player was at Winterhold, and MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 3), was not able to trigger the scene at ~3:00pm however was able to trigger ~11:00pm.

::I think there are couple of condition to trigger the murder scene.

:::* I do not think player actually have to enter the city 4 times to trigger. I was able to trigger the scene on my 2nd entry. My MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 7 even before my first entry of the city. At Anga's Mill MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 0. Followed the main road and went straight to Gate of Windhelm(before the entry) and my MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was at 3.
::::Retry From Anga's mill MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 0 and after crossing the bridge MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 1, Windhelm stable MS11EnteringWindhelmCount was 2. Entering Windhelm, still 2. Exit and re-enter and still 2. 3rd and 4th still at 2. Scene is not triggered.

:::* The scene does not get triggered during days. From 1st entry of Windhelm, fast travel to Solitude and rested 24hrs. Fast travel back to Windhelm and was not able to trigger the scene. After bit more load and save found the trigger also related to time of day.
::::~2:30pm did not triggered
::::~5:30pm did not triggered
::::~9:30pm triggered
::::~11:30pm triggered
::::~next day 3:00pm did not triggered

:::*Fast travel to Markarth before rest and back to Solitude and repeated the above resulted same, thus number of visited city was not one of trigger.

:::* I was able to trigger the scene without talking to any NPC.

:::* Before the scene, player may have to be out of city/hold for awhile. Fast travel to Riften and back to Windhelm for 2nd entry, did not tirgger the scene however Solitude/Markarth triggered the scene.(not sure if it is relate to day/night or time spent on travel)

:::May be it is possible to miss the scene and npc gets resetted for whatever reason then player cannot get start the quest normal way.
::::It's not that complicated - enter and exit the city four times and the quest will trigger. Just stay focused and get to the graveyard at time. :D --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 01:48, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::It was trigger for me 2nd time and some time was able to avoid the scene more than couple. at 1:40pm, 4th entry does not triggered the event.
::::::No it wasn't - it's programmed and you've entered the city two times before. Sorry, but that's the way it is. -- [[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 01:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::::No. Refer to other posts on the subject - "entering windhelm" count does not necessarily refer to passing through the gate or fast traveling to the city and it is possible to have the count increase multiple times merely while in the vicinity of the city and without entering it. It may be tied to the loading/unloading of one or more cells so that moving around in proximity of the city gates will trigger the count. ([[Special:Contributions/174.97.194.85|174.97.194.85]] 19:33, 3 December 2011 (UTC))
:::::::Well I took you advice and tried. Went in and out of city more than 6 times and still did not triggered the event. Rested until 10pm before the gate and entered for 7th did not triggered. Load from 6th and went to Riften and came back (around 8:50am) did not triggered event however rested in Riften for 13 hours to make 10pmish triggered the event.
{{od}} I don't think you are meant to visit the town at all before initiating the quest. It's probably a bug, but please load an earlier save and see if you can trigger it with the 4 day method. Oh, and you have nothing to do in Riften! ;)--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 02:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
:It is already an old save(only finished like less than 10quests including radiants). I was hoping if someone with new started game can confirm this. My later save, triggered the scene as soon as I entered the Windhelm FIRST TIME!!!! but again does not trigger if I go during the day. May be it has do to something with npc not busy doing something else. (never visited Windhelm/dock except stable and farms; thus cannot fast travel to the city itself and also triggers that initial argument btw 2 nords and a dark elf as soon as enter; however MS11EnteringWindhelmCount is 7 I think because of Main quest and earlier visit of stable)
:Oh, and beside I am trying not to trigger it!!lol

:: When the quest didn't normally trigger for me I just broke into the Shatter-Shields house at night and stole a key from Tova Shatter-Shield and went into Hjerim, After taking the beware the butcher journal and pamphlets the quest activated.
::If the original trigger doesn't work then you can bypass the bug using this. {{Unsigned|68.94.214.118|23:05, 3 December 2011 (UTC)}}
::: The last one sounds as a pretty good "cheat" in case of emergency and should work for all versions; still, figuring out how to complete the "entire" quest - and trigger the first murder - would be incredibly useful. I'll try and go through all the above information (well, the tests that worked that is), and see if I can come up with some kind of method that works every time. I will, however, work with a character that has never visited Windhelm before. I read somewhere that there's an upper limit (was it 254 visits?) - and that one sounds bad. Still, any inputs and/or tests are highly appreciated. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 01:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
:::: I stole the key, i took all items that could be taken in the house and the quest is not available. It doesn't work. I think it's because I finished the Sombrage quests before but not sure.
::::: Same here. Stole the key, took the items, even found the hidden room and tried to investigate things, nothing happened. But I also took things out of Calixto's chest. Trying earlier saves and seeing if I can trigger it somehow. I also completed siding with the stormcloaks, could finishing the war possibly have an effect on this quest? Or possibly going too far in the war quest? PS3. [[User:Wolfeh|Wolfeh]] 03:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::Tried earlier saves, which I still had completed the war quest at that time, and nothing... I tried every possible solution, even completing the Dark Brotherhood quest where you kill the Shatter Shield's other daughter and the mother kills herself. So frustrating! I even tried drawing the bar maid out by attacking her and then yielding, which Calixto seemed like he was going to kill her but once she went inside he stopped. It's quite hard to keep her outside, and I'm not sure how I can or if he even will kill her when I finally do (I'm thinking of just constantly talking to her until he kills her or doesn't), but still looking for more solutions. [[User:Wolfeh|Wolfeh]] 12:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::Still nothing. Also took everything from the Hjerim, tried talking to viola afterwords, traveling from the mill to windhelm, fast traveling, etc. etc. Nothing triggers the quest. [[User:Wolfeh|Wolfeh]] 20:32, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

== Dark Brotherhood Interference ==

Started the quest before doing the Dark Brotherhood questline.

Completed the quest where the contact is Muiri, and we have to kill her ex-lover, and optionally one of the Shatter-shield daughters. In killing the daughter, the mother commits suicide, which makes obtaining the key to Hjerim impossible.

:But it does not make the quest impossible. I can't remember if its possible to pick the lock or not. If not, you'll have to wait until you do the civil war, which will let you purchase the house. --[[User:Affubalator|Affubalator]] 19:47, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
:: According to my observations, and for whatever reason, the lock changes from a 'key required' to an expert leveled lock the moment you start Blood on the Ice. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 20:03, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
:::The lock will only be expert level if your lockpick skill is low.--[[Special:Contributions/193.252.26.70|193.252.26.70]] 09:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

::: I wish it were only expert. I've got 100 Lockpicking, the lock is Master, and I've wasted 50 picks already. Any other master lock I get between 3-5 picks. Also, I should note: The quest markers are still there (ie. "Examine the crime scene", "Speak to Jorleif"). The crime scene is gone (body is gone, Npcs have moved), the blood is still on the ground leading to Hjerim.

:::: Oops, my bad. The lock is indeed Master-leveled. I suggest you just keep trying - and I'm interested in what you find! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 22:40, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::Obtaining the dead mother's key to Hjerim is not impossible; I retrieved the key from her corpse (in-game) weeks after completing that contract. Unique NPC bodies rarely, if ever, disappear (ref: Astrid, Alva, Shatter-shield, many more). {{unsigned|72.161.240.78|08:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)}}

If the above is true, where can the body of Tova Shatter-Shield be found?

== Quest not starting on XBOX and PS3 ==

figured I would share this, as other people cant figure out how to trigger the quest. Themother (Tori Shatter-Shield I believe she is) has a key to Hjerim. Pickpocket from her to access the house and trigger the quest. Just remember to selk that amulet from the bottom shelf before advancing too far. And if you bugger up the house of curiosities by seeking a walkthrouh while the door is locked, break in mid day. Wake the guy up. He will yell, leave and reenter. -ed. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.108.87|68.146.108.87]]

== quest stuck bug ==

After I went to Jorleif and talked to him, it kept showing "gain assistance from Jorleif" as unfinished in my log and a quest marker keeps directing me to him. I did manage to continue though, but after talking to calixto corrum about the amulet, I can't confront the court mage, and my only quest marker is still pointing at jorleif. I didn't manage to find Viola at all. I checked all of windhelm over and over again, went into her house dozens of times, checked the in a few times too, but she seems to have vanished... --[[Special:Contributions/78.22.50.137|78.22.50.137]] 18:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I just wanted to buy the Windhelm house when I found out about the quest. I've literally found everything I need to pick up for this quest but haven't been able to trigger the initial murder scene. I got the key to the house from a dead woman I found inside the house across the street from Viola's. She is clearly the mother of the other two girls killed before the waitress(who still isn't dead by the way). I have a useless Misc. quest to buy a house in Windhelm that just points at Jarleif who won't sell the house due to some 'unpleasentries'. Please contact me personally if you can help. Even if you just copy and paste what you write on the page, it'll be much appreciated.
Sorry meant to put that on the "Quest not Triggering on Xbox or Playstation"

== Possible bug, need confirmation ==

This is something my brother attempted to describe to me, so I do not have first hand experience with this. Basically, my brother wanted to buy the house in Windhelm, so he did the Stormcloak missions until it told him he could. He bought the house, then went to check it out before buying the decorations (or possibly it didn't let him?), upon entering, he was told to find the clues. He did not have the quest, and it was not added when he triggered this. But he also could not get the quest from the guard, because he'd already hit a trigger halfway through the quest. If anybody out there on PC is willing to test, or if anybody on console happens to have a save game that meets the conditions, this is something that needs some testing/confirmation. --[[User:Affubalator|Affubalator]] 20:59, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== Key solution not guaranteed ==

A few people have mentioned stealing the Hjerim key off of Tova Shatter-Shield's body and looking around in Hjerim. I did this, and the quest did not trigger and I am still unable to buy the house, even though Ulfric said I could. If anyone knows a fix for this, on Xbox, I would appreciate it. I've already tried leaving and entering the city multiple times and entering the city at night. [[User:Midnightq2|Midnightq2]] 01:49, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

== calixto in hjerim with quest marker ==

Calixto is in Hjerim (purchased) with the quest marker. Problem is he keeps on attacking me and there is no dialogue options available. Any help would be appreciated.

- I had this problem. Just solved it. Here's what I did (I call it "Out of sight, out of mind").:
1. I completed the quest using the setstage command.
2. I added calixto to the player faction using "addtofaction 5a1a4 1"
3. I yielded in so he ran back to his little room and went catatonic
4. I walked up to him and used "disable" --[[User:Maelstrom88|Maelstrom88]] 07:51, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== Quest already running ==

When typing in: sqv ms11preessentializing
At the "Quest State" part of the info it says that the quest is enabled and already running for me.
But i never had the Graveyard scene or started it any other way. (not in my log either)
Maybe this is why it can't be started? Anyone else has this?

:I DID complete it on my first playthrough and it says enabled and running even when i create a new character.
--[[Special:Contributions/77.171.8.164|77.171.8.164]] 17:09, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

::Yep, this quest is always running until you trigger the graveyard scene (or start the quest in Hjerim). The quests you can see in your journal are not directly related to the internal quests. MS11 is the quest you want to start (starts with graveyard scene and gives you the journal entry at a certain stage), but as far as I know, there's no way to do that using the console if you can't trigger the scene in the first place. --[[Special:Contributions/92.226.106.134|92.226.106.134]] 00:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah Same thing for me. I have a question though regardng how to view your day count, how to set your windhelm count to something.
:::: - This quest is supposed to be running, from the start of the game. It uses the info from the quest MS11Kicker (that tracks how many times you have entered Windhelm, time of day, game days passed etc). Essentially when you trigger entering Windhelm on the 4th or more time (MS11EnteringWindhelmCount >= 4), if the time of day is in the correct range (Night time, usually past 9pm or so), then the MS11PreEssentializing Quest will start the MS11 quest for you (it will show enabled), and it will end itself (MS11PreEssentializing will show disabled). What this does is spawn the murdered body in the cemetary. Note: Since you can trigger "entering windhelm" without actually going inside the city proper (eg. fast travel to the stables), after this happens, you can actually enter the city at any time of day and investigate the murder/start the quest. When MS11 is enabled, it will be at stage 1 (not in journal yet).

::::-For some reason, when the quest gets bugged and won't start, it seems MS11PreEssentializing will not enable MS11, regardless if all the prerequisites of MS11Kicker are met. There must be some additional factor/influence that is preventing some extra condition from being true. (I have read elsewhere that Calixo can become stuck/glitched, if you ever pick his lock before triggering the quest. I have yet to confirm that though. {{unsigned|Aggies11|07:23, 14 December 2011}}
::::: That's the best explanation about triggering (or not triggering) the quest I've heard so far. You should shorten it a bit and add it as a note on the main article. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 07:31, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::: Confirming all you said. I also noticed that when the quest is bugged (ie not triggering), you can't enable the graveyard corpse via "d2c9e.enable" anymore. If the quest is still able to trigger, d2c9e.enable will show the body. The same thing happens if you type "d2c9e.markfordelete" beforehand. And after doing so, you can't trigger the quest anymore either. I couldn't find a command to revert it though. So I did some save game editing, and was able to revert that change in my real save game, so that d2c9e.enable worked again. However, the quest still wouldn't trigger, even though "startquest ms11" showed some output (which wasn't the case before, so undeleting d2c9e did have some effect). So I'm thinking if the trigger fails once for some reason, there are multiple objects (like npcs) that get disposed of/changed so that the game always fails to start the quest afterwards. [[Special:Contributions/85.181.57.237|85.181.57.237]] 14:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::: I have two saves, one where it will work (lvl 18, day 27, entered 3), and one where it won't (lvl 19, day 32, entered 4). I can confirm that the body was deleted. (prid d2c9e shows normally in the first save, has [D] appended in the second save.) This would tend to indicate that the quest triggered, and then got cleaned up without me ever seeing it, and now won't restart. Furthermore, I can go to the save that works, d2c9e.MarkForDelete, and it will no longer work (with no output from startquest ms11 vs the 500+ getfaction, getissex, getisdead calls logged when it works). The two saves differ by about 4 hours realtime, and seem to be limited to finishing up mage college sidequests, then joining the stormcloaks (presumably where I triggered the quest to start, and immediately left to go kill ice wraiths) Now I guess we just have to identify what other objects are deleted and/or what triggered the cleanup.

== Confusion on quest events ==

This may help those on the Xbox. We can't use the setstage commands... :(

I was not able to get the quest to trigger so I investigated without the quest markers. I found that the shatter shield lady killed herself and I took her key and suicide note. The only thing is that after leaving her house and walking to the main gate area, I see both her daughters on the way and they are still alive. After reading issues others had, I decided to try and skip the quest for the most part. The quest would not trigger and the amulet was not in the house. So I was afraid I would never get the house.

So anyway, I said screw it, finished the dark brotherhood(killing one sister, Nilsine), then murdered the other girl for the heck of it (Friga), and now it works. I have been able to get the house and everything works.

I don't know where the bug actually fixed itself, so someone may want to check it. I hope it can help, though I doubt this is a common bug.

P.S. After killing both daughters, I went back to the house, picked up the amulet and continued the quest from there. Also, this may only trigger if you killed viola for fun or during a dragon attack.

: Erm, Friga doesn't even exist in the game (she is one of the previous victims of the serial killer and exist, to the best of my knowledge, only as a rumor), so that method is not really reliable. Also, Tova will not kill herself with Nilsine still alive, so unless we're talking an entirely different bug here (related to the DB quest), this sounds like fanfiction and is not useful, especially not for a simple search on how to start the quest. You're right about one thing, though - we can't really use console codes here, only a reliable method and an explanation of the game mechanics, so we have something to investigate. In short, if you want to help out, find a save before you arrived at Windhelm for the first time and see if you can trigger it. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 18:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I got through the first section of the quest and got to the very end of the second part of the Quest where it says "Catch the Murderer" which is impossible because it automatically updated saying I strolled the streets at night (which I didn't) so I didn't see the shop owner try and kill the next girl so all I see is him running to Hjerim, and even if he starts attacking me I can't kill him so I cannot finish the quest, maybe this will get fixed?

== Xbox 360: Calixto won't die. ==

So the first stage of events were completed with ease.
But when I returned back to Windhelm and noticed the second batch of murders it starts to get buggy.
After talking with Unferth(sic) and getting the quest update to 'patrol the stone quarter at night' it automatically updates before I even leave the Palace of the Kings,
saying I have already been there aNd now I have to 'Catch the Murderer'.
Upon exiting the building, Calixto with a quest marker hovering above his head runs past headed to Hjerim. Any attack or intervention (that's if I can catch up to him) earns me a bounty.
Once we enter Hjerim, He attacks but cannot be killed, merely crouching before he rises once more, and then starts to attack me.
as its on the Xbox, no console commands. any help appreciated.

- I also have this problem and now he's stuck in my house

- I also have this problem where invincible Calixto is living in my house but worse still he's stealing my rare weapons to fight with and I can't get them back from him! I need to kill this clown. any progress on a fix for 360?

== time of murder ==

just thought I would post that I was walking over to the market at 7:30pm and he attempted to murder the girl with the market still full of people. So even though it says wait till night I dont think it has to be very late for it to trigger--[[User:Lord.Baal|Lord.Baal]] 19:30, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
: I ran some tests the other day, and you can actually just go straight to the market - you can also wait 48 hours if you want to. Calixto will be there, attempting his next murder. Annoying fact is that the guards will NOT leave the market if you go there during the day (which will most likely net you a bounty if you save the girl), so I decided to leave it out of the article, simply becuase it is meant to happen during the night - and to avoid even more "why-did-I-get-a-bounty"-questions. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 19:42, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

== Can't find Viola ==

I'm at the point where I've talked to Calixto and sold him the amulet. I'm now searching for Viola, but there is no quest marker to indicate her position. I spent the day roaming the streets and an evening wandering around Candlehearth Hall in the hopes of stumbling upon her, but no luck. I've tried talking to Jorleif, but there's no option to ask about the Butcher, as mentioned in the wiki article. If she's dead, I can't find her body, and even if I could, I'm on the xbox so I can't resurrect her. Does anyone else have this issue, on the xbox or otherwise? Or any suggestions on where/when I can find Viola, or get Jorleif to mention her?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have something similar on the pc. However, I CAN talk to Jorleif about the butcher, he says: "Have you been talking to Viola Giordano? She keeps posting those pamphlets, but someone keeps taking them down. Ask her about it if you want an earful". But Viola is nowhere to be found, and there is no quest marker to indicate where she is. I have left and entered the city several times, waited my (...) off and looked for her everywhere. My quest log says: Follow up on the clues from Hjerim. And: Get help from Jorleif. But Jorleif isn't helpful, Calixto just tells me he wants to buy the amulet and Viola seems to have disappeared, like I said before. Is it a bug or am I doing something wrong?

:Could it be at all possible that shes dead? As detailed on the quest page . . . . --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 18:33, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have the exact same problem as the 2nd post above, and am on the pc. No Viola to talk to anywhere, she has disappeared. I'm quite early on, only 16th lvl, haven't done any Stormcloak or Imperial quest threads. I have replaced Viola's ring. Now found the solution, not sure why no one has recorded it here, since it is listed in other places:

On PC, open Console and type:

prid 0001B13C

disable

resurrect 1

enable

moveto player

Viola will appear next to you, you can talk to her, and continue with the quest. Talking to her allowed me to continue, even though I had not sold the Amulet to Calixto (apparently this is another bug).
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I have exact problem on ps3 so I cant use console commands and I would really like to finish this stupid fudging quest and get on with my life. Any ideas?

== Where's Tova? ==

Simple: I can't find Tova's body. I killed Nilsine as part of the DB questline, but I can't find the body (with the key) anywhere. I'm on the 360, so I can't use the console. Is there any workaround to this, or am I stuck waiting for Bethesda to patch this miserable quest? Oh, and I entered Windhelm at least a dozen times at night before Day 245, and nothing ever triggered. [[User:Jak Atackka|Jak Atackka]] 06:38, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
: I'm still not 100% certain on how long dead bodies will float around in the game, but chances are she is gone. She is not overly important to the quest though - important thing is that you somehow manage to trigger the quest. If you attempted it a dozen times, then it may be gone for unknown reasons - but alternatively, I'd try and break into Hjerim. If that is impossible (due to the lock being 'key reguired'), purchase the buggy place and see if that helps. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 07:16, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

== Breaking in at Calixto's ==

I moved these two contradictory bug descriptions here for now - either we have a bug, or we don't. Please share your experiences on this talk page.
:{{Bug|If you pickpocket Calixto's key and open his chest before the quest is over it won't affect the questline at all.}}
:{{Pc22}} Not necessarily true. Taking his incriminating copy of the Butcher's Journal makes him lock his house after gathering clues at Hjerim. If attempting to follow up on the amulet, even before speaking to Viola Giorando, Calixto's house will be locked. Entering with Calixto's key or picking the lock will result in him running the tresspassing NPC scripts and he cannot be talked to - thus you cannot sell the amulet to Calixto. No amount of waiting seems to resolve this. The rest of the quest can be completed successfully. The end result is taking his Butcher's Journal from Calixto's Chest can prevent you from being able to acquire the Necromancer's Amulet. If you wish to have the quest reward, do not steal from Calixto's Chest until he has been defeated.

In order to fix the issue of Calixto being stuck agroing you for trespassing go to the main city of the Hold(district) you're in and pickpocket a guard and get caught. Pay the fine, and go back to the NPC. No more agro!
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 20:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
The mom with the key is dead in her house

== 35. One Fix that worked ==

I had the problem where Wuunferth was in the jail, I had to patrol the Stone Quarter but the quest went straight to complete and then jumped to catch the murder. Calixto would run straight to Hjerim were I couldn't interact with him, kill him or do anything.

After searching I saw that the final victim was supposed to be Arivanya, but she had already been killed - she was the second victim after Wuunferth was arrested.

I used the old Fallout 3 console command
prid 0001b144
kill
resurrect
disable
enable
then I spoke to Wuunferth in the jail (I had a save game prior to speaking to him in the jail). I got the message patrol the stone quarter and the quest continued. It took about 72 hours before Arivanya showed up in the market place. Calixto just stood there for 3 days waiting for her. I let him kill her to set the balance right, she was after all supposed to be dead.

Quest completed - Speak to Jorleif for reward.

== Second murder never happened ==

After I accused the mage and he was put in jail, I wanted to finish the quest for good. I tried waiting outside the city walls for > 3 days, nothing. I tried waiting again, nothing. The second murder never happened.

Talking to the mage in the dungeon just offered destruction training.

What worked is reloading a safe and going directly to the mage to catch the real killer. Lost a few hours of play but at least this bug o rama quest was done.

This is on 360, patch 1.3.5

[[User:Eric7237cire|Eric7237cire]] 09:25, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

== Cant do anything with the BOTI quest, or Hjerim. ==

Basically, i finished the imperial questline, then i became a thane by helping the people around windhelm. I bought Hjerim, when i entered there was blood everywhere and i started the BOTI quest automatically. I sold the amulet to Calixto now i cant do anything with the quest, all it says is (Follow up the clues from Hjerim) There is also no description for the quest its just blank. What can i do im also on the PS3 version so i cant do any console commands. Also going back my save is waaay to far behind. Is there anyway to fix? i wasted 12000 septims ;(
:There isn't a single part of this quest that isn't bugged in one way or another; I can't even get it started on the PC. As far as I know, there's not much to do but wait for patching. [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] 19:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:: You can easily complete the quest without the quest markers, just follow the alkthrough - and if you were able to sell the amulet to Calixto, then there's hope. Make sure you have both Journals and the pamphlet from Hjerim and go see either Viola or Jorleif. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 19:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== The invincible Calixto! ==

Yet another bug tested negative - I have no idea why so many people can't kill Calixto (he shouldn't be marked as essential at any time), but this is certainly untrue:
: ''If you leave Windhelm for a couple of days after that you put Wuunferth in prison and return you might find Arivanya dead in the Stone Quarter with a guard standing near. Talking to the guard reopens the quest and you are sent to talk to Wuunferth. After you talk to Wuunferth he wants you to patrol the Stone Quarter and that goal will be completed at the same time and when you meet Calixto you can't kill him. This is becuse Arivanya is the victim you are supposed to catch Calixto murdering at night. The solution to this is to resurrect Arivanya when you find her before you talk to the guard. Then you can complete the quest.''
I just tested it (again) and Calixto will simply move on to another victim (already stated in the bugs section), and is easily killed both during and after the murder. If someone can go into detail about why Calixto can't be killed, please do so - but the above explanation is no good. Sorry. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 14:53, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

== bugs ==

Everyone has come across bugs with this quest. Since Beth didn't QA the game enough, I vote for a "Proper way to acquire Hjerim" section of the article which could detail what to do, when and where... and be able to clean up the murderer's mess... compiled from all the tips on all the NPCs/quest/places pages. Currently, it seems to take many hours to do this right without having to invoke the console.
: You're correct. As I just [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim_talk:Blood_on_the_Ice&curid=108919&diff=829970&oldid=829965 wrote] in a post above, it is time to get our facts straight. We need to find the reason for the bugs, not just explain how to solve them. It will be an awful lot of work, but since I have saves where I can virtually walk through this entire quest with my eyes closed (not a single bug in sight), there must be something we can do, other than provide questionable console codes for PC users. I'll start listing what needs to be done for Blood on the Ice in the coming days. It is important to separate the quest and Hjerim at this point, though - so I'll suggest you do a similar thing over at Hjerim's [[Skyrim_talk:Hjerim|talk page]]. Good luck! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 07:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
:: Hi Krusty. Thanks for your agreement. I read your post above, but am still baffled by what to do here. Guess I still need to read every detail on the bugs of this quest, as I'm a newb to it still. I've bought Hjerim and finished "Blood On The Ice", then spoke to Calixto and watched Wuunferth go to his prison cell, then bought all house items except the Living Room (as per comments) .. but the murderer's mess still remains. I've reloaded from old saves and done this a few times over. Going to restore yet again from an old save and try to document what I do, for this master How-To document on it. Anyone with something to add, please do so. Thinking that this page, and the Hjerim page, need to be more closely linked together.
::: Yeah, it seems like a neverending wave of bugs, but here is my limited knowledge on Hjerim:
:::*Not available for purchase until you have initiated Blood on the Ice. By 'initiated' I don't mean started it -but you must meet the requirements. This seems okay to me, but why the Hjerim lock changes when Blood on the Ice is initiated remains a mystery. If you, for whatever reason, managed to buy the house from Jorleif, please exit the town and enter it again at night and see if you can get the graveyard sequence to appear.
:::*I read somewhere that you, after purchasing the cleanup for Hjerim, has to go enter the house for the cleanup to actually work. THEN go back and purchase the other upgrades. If you purchase more than the cleanup, the house will bug and the blood remain.
::: That was my limited knowledge on Hjerim. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 10:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

== Quest Trigger ==

I think I found the problem. It's the Imperial Questline, if you have already finished, the quest won't trigger and the body
will be marked as deleted "[D]" and cannot be enabled again.
But if you are doing the Stormcloacks questline the body will show up the graveyard, the quest will trigger and will appear in your journal.
[[User:Gamesbeaten1|Gamesbeaten1]] 14:10, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

== Invincible Calixto ==

I have the PS3 version of the game, an Calixto is bugged inside Hjerim.
I had no troubles with the quest until I went and talked to Wuunferth in jail. I exited the palace and ran into Calixto, by the Candlehearth Inn and this occurred during the middle of the day. Which completed the objective patrol the streets of the stone quarter at night and gave me the new objective catch the murderer. Calixto then ran to Hjerim and now I can't kill him, he doesn't leave Hjerim, and I can't interact with him.

==theory==
I have a theory to why the weapon racks in the house do not work sometimes, I believe that it is a result of not investigating all points before purchasing the upgrades that add the racks. I am in the process of testing this theory and I will write back when I have confirmed/disproved it.--[[User:Kip|Kip]] 28 December 2011 (UTC)

== The Butcher's Journals ==

When I have tried reading Journal 1, it goes through the animation of reading an Elder Scroll, rather than open the journal. Journal 2 reads fine, though. I know it's not the Scroll I was reading, because I sold it to the Orc in the College after completing the Main Quest and Discerning the Transmudane. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon, or am I just having on of those strange one-off's that you typically find within the series, or is there a bug I accidentally triggered? [[User:Eric Snowmane|ES]][[User_talk:Eric Snowmane|T]]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|E]]•[[Special:Contributions/Eric_Snowmane|C]] 21:51, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
:I think it is just a strange once-off glitch, I experienced practically every glitch possible for that quest but never encountered that before. At least it didn't break the quest.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 22:15, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
==Tova is gone!==
I had the same problem:

Killed Nilsine as part of the DB quest just before the BOTI quest started. Now, I've been told to get the key to Hjerim from Tova, but she is nowhere. The quest arrow points me into the Shattershield house, which I was able to get into using Nilsine's key, but Tova's body is not there. The quest arrow points to an empty space in the foyer.
: It is mentioned in the [[Skyrim:Blood_on_the_Ice#Bugs|bugs section]]. Your only hope is to pick the Hjerim lock and follow the walkthrough from there. It is possible you will not receive a quest update, but please let me know if you do. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 23:06, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

== Susanna, third victim ==

I just talked to the guard to start this quest and was told shes the third victim not fourth like the page states.--[[Special:Contributions/222.152.245.106|222.152.245.106]] 06:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
: Yup, there's a bit of contradicted opinions about the body count, especially if you speak with the Windhelm people who has the slayings as a normal topic. I did note it down but, in the end, decided we had more than enough bugs and troubles with this quest for it to be really worth mentioning. Still, the info is probably okay to add as a note, so feel free. Just make sure to state a list of NPCs (or at least an example) who will provide the wrong info. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 07:10, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

== The long console fix ==

This console fix is too long (and the circumstances too rare) to have floating around on the article, so I moved it here for now:
: ** {{Pc22}} To make the guard involved visible again, manipulate the enable parents for the original town guards and the Imperial guard replacers. use the console commands <code>prid 77e0c</code> followed by <code>disable</code> (the Legion guard enable parent, to disable them so there's no potential for Legion/Stormcloak scuffles), then <code>prid 45c10</code> followed by <code>enable</code> (the enable parent for the original Stormcloak-aligned town guard). The guard involved may be dead, so use the console to resurrect him (<code>prid 45c25</code> then <code>resurrect</code>). Ignore all the dead town guard bodies littered about town. Once the quest is complete, simply reverse the enable parents: Re-enable the Legion and re-disable the Stormcloaks.
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 07:19, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

== The BIG Blood on the Ice Investigation ==

Okay, it is time to narrow down all the various complaints, glitches bugs and what have we – and get the rest of this messy talk page archived. As far as I can see, not counting the bugs already mentioned on the quest page, the following needs to be tested:

* Why is Calixto invincible for certain users?
* Why will Calixto disappear for an unknown amount of time during the quest?
* Why will Viola disappear for unknown reasons? Note; unknown reasons does not include completing war quests, fighting dragons and the like.
* How will the Stormcloaks quest line affect the quest? (provided BOTI quest is not initiated before completion of quest line)
* How will the Imperial quest line affect the quest? (provided BOTI quest is not initiated before completion of quest line)
* Will it affect the quest if you pickpocket Calixto’s key and read the secret journal from his chest?

As far as I can tell from the hundreds of posts above, it all boils down to these six questions. Mind you, there IS a reason I keep removing cheats like “sell Calixto the Amulet over and over”, because basically you are not supposed to use cheats – this is an Elder Scrolls game, and every stupid thing you do can affect a quest like this.

In short: IF you have a saved file from BEFORE you ever entered Windhelm, then you can help answering the questions above. If you have cheated or done stupid stuff in Windhelm (even killing the quest-related horse sellers outside counts as stupid stuff), then you’re in no position to help out here. Same with questionable console codes, by the way. I have completed this quest 20 times without experiencing a single bug - so it all boils down to figuring out what can be done “wrong” in Windhelm. Also, if you want to help out here, do not add your theories/ideas/console codes – add well-researched info that you have tested yourself. If you can’t be bothered with in-game testing, don’t bother contributing. Lastly, this is NOT a Hjerim-related bug-investigation – Hjerim is heavily involved in the quest, but it’s not important if some cupboard doesn’t spawn when you purchase the house. This is Blood on the Ice stuff only and is the final attempt to get everything right on the page. Despite what sounds like strict rules, I really hope people will make an effort and help out. Thanks in advance. 
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 22:35, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

== I have more than 245 in-game days and Blood on the Ice won't start ==

I've done (listed in order to completion) the Winterhold quest, almost finished Thieves' guild quests (haven't returned the skeleton key), finished Dark Brotherhood quests, finished Companions quest, finished main quests, and finished the Civil war quest siding with the Imperials.

I have tried many methods suggested by others but still cannot get the Blood on Ice quest to start:
*I did not kill Nilsine in my Dark Brotherhood quest.
*I stole the Hjerim key from Tova and got into Hjerim but the quest did not start, even after I've taken the butcher note #1 and the other pamphlets and the mystery amulet inside the house.
*I was told by the Jarl (Bruulaf?) that I can buy the house and become thane, but Jorleif said it can't be bought yet because something "unpleasant" happened.
*Susana the Wicked is still alive.
*Some say visit Wuunferth in the dungeon might trigger the quest, but for me Wuunferth is still the mage and is walking around in the Palace.
*I tried talking to guards in the graveyard around 2am but none talks about any murder.

I'm at 252 in-game days now, I suspect this is the only reason it won't start?

I've just loaded a save that's at 220 days and not finished the Companions, main, and Civil War quests. Stole Hjerim key and went into the house, but quest did not start even after I picked up the notes and pamphlets and the amulet. {{unsigned|24.4.107.4|23:22, 30 December 2011}}
: You probably already searched all over this page, but I was thinking that [[Skyrim_talk:Blood_on_the_Ice#Possible_cause_for_the_quest_not_triggering|this topic]] could be helpful? Otherwise, you could be really helpful by loading a very old save and do some checking - especially because the 245-day limit seems odd, and it seems even more odd that the quest breaks if you so much as touches the... Imperials? Stormcloaks? That is one of the things I mentioned in my investigation post just above, and it seems like it is affecting you big time. Good luck! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 00:31, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

== No Further Quest Updates Triggering ==

Approaching the house of Viola Giordano doesn't trigger a journal update. Nither does entering the house. Inside the house, there is no blood trail, and the chest holds nothing but 18 septims. No quest updates occured beyond after speaking to the embalmer in the Hall of the Dead, with the quest log reading "Examine the Crime Scene" and "Get Assistance From Jorleif". What is there I can do to fix this accursed quest? This seems to be the single-most broken quest in Skyrim, and almost no aspect of it seems to be working right >_>. Play Station 3 console, by the way, so I can't setstage. I read all of the other comments, but nothing seems to answer how to fix this, and while I realise the goal is to find the cause, IS THERE any current work-around for non-PC users? If so, please tell me, it would be greatly appreciated. If not, thanks for your time, and I apologise for using it. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 02:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Mining

2011-12-29T17:06:15Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Ore respawning time */ new section

== Gloombound Mine ==
Gloombound mine is for ebony and iron, did not find any moonstone.

== Units ==
"Mts," as far as units of measurement go, refers to the "metre-tonne-second" measurement system, which has not been used in over half a century. If the contributor meant minutes, the abbreviation is "min." If meters was intended, the abbreviation is "m." Note that neither of these should be capitalized or have a period unless they are at the beginning or end of a sentence, respectively. I don't know which unit the contributor intended, so I won't make the edit myself.[[Special:Contributions/144.174.250.73|144.174.250.73]] 19:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that, did it in a hurry. I've corrected them all--[[User:EstebanLB|EstebanLB]] 04:48, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Bugs - please verify ==

If a companion/follower bumps into your character while mining, the mining animation stops, and you can no longer select that ore Ore Vein to mine again. Tested in Embershard Mine on Xbox with Faendal -- [[User:Alienangel|Alienangel]] 18 Nov 2011

-I'm having this same bug--but for EVERY vein. [[Special:Contributions/68.102.238.90|68.102.238.90]] 01:34, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
:I've had a bug like that before, though once you mine another vein it will remove all the ore from the one you got bugged with, in addition to the ore that you mine from the new vein. Have to check if you can manually remine a bugged vein or not, but if you can, there's a simple fix.[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 11:20, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

A bug I discovered while mining in Blackreach: I tried to mine an ebony ore vein a distance away from a Wispmother, who had noticed, but not detected, me while killing a falmer. The game displayed the message to the effect that I couldn't mine while enemies were around/during combat. After killing the Wispmother, I mined a nearby geode vein and received messages saying I was obtaining both soulgems and ebony ore from that mining session. I checked the ebony vein and I had emptied it, as well as the geode vein. I was using automatic mining. [[Special:Contributions/76.0.42.190|76.0.42.190]] 07:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== "Veins typically yield two pieces of ore" ==

This is what I thought. I actually checked my inventory once and noticed that all three ores are added when mining in one use without stopping. The second one just isn't shown on the screen (perhaps a bug?). It is, however, added to your inventory. -- [[Special:Contributions/141.44.198.144|141.44.198.144]] 16:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

*Actually, if you pause the game when you pick up the first ore, then wait the amount of time it would take for the message to disappear, then continue, the message will appear for the second pickup. The third message will not appear unless you complete that process again. So it's not that the message isn't appearing, but the game seems to disallow the a message while the exact same message is on screen - or theoretically on screen, but actually so faded as to not be there. It probably has to do with the amount of time it takes a message to fade and get removed, and the amount of time it takes you to mine a second ore. [[Special:Contributions/153.107.97.155|153.107.97.155]] 23:56, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Other veins that are not on the list, but has uncertain location/kind info. ==

Any other findings that need further investigation can post them here.

- (orichalcum I think it was) on top of the mountain above skyborn altar

- (corundum I think) in the marshes just outside the abandoned shack in the Morthal marshes

There's three veins of iron along the eastern wall of Whiterun. Exiting Whiterun at the gate, turn left and just follow the wall. Two are close to each other.
There's another on the western side as well. It's directly to the left of where the icon for Dragonsreach is. --[[User:Eienshi09|Eienshi09]] 08:15, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
There is also 2 corundum veins and a quicksilver vein in the rock footings around Whiterun.

There are 2 ebony and 2 malacite ore veins at the very top of the throat of the world.

Anybody game for finding the missing intel are free to move this/these to the front page

:I found an Orichalcum ore vein to the East of [[Skyrim:Yorgrim Overlook|Yorgrim Overlook]], this satisfies the description of "Halfway between Driftshade Refuge and Windhelm" so I'm replacing this on the page. [[User:Melleh17|Melleh17]] 23:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I've discovered a mining glitch, which comes in handy when mining the rare metal ore like ebony. If you "pull" away from mining just after hiding the rock three times and getting your first ore, and then start mining again and let the player mine till it's depleted. This way you´ll get three ores each time you mine :o)
:I'm pretty sure everyone gets 3 ores when mining regularly anyway, unless you have some sort of glitch. Have you checked your inventory to make sure you don't get 3 ores? I think the Note related to this may be unessecary. [[User:Melleh17|Melleh17]] 13:10, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

== geode vein ==

In Blackreach I found an unusual geode vein (or ore perhaps). There were quite a lot of these and when mining I got soul gems.

:yes it says that down the bottom under soul gems. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 15:22, 21 November 2011 (UTC))

== Manual Mining ==

A friend told me that mining is also possible by weilding and manually swinging a pickaxe (or two) at a vein, something he says he learned from the Skyrim Official Game Guide. Unfortunately I currently can't test this claim as my computer is having bug troubles. [[Special:Contributions/153.107.97.155|153.107.97.155]] 00:02, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

OMG, your friend was totally right!! It's not only cooler, but faster and you are not bored while doing it because you are actually DOING it!--[[User:EstebanLB|EstebanLB]] 01:14, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I confirm this works and it is a good deal faster. Now to test if it provides better drops since the one time I tried it, I got 2 gems and 3 ores.
:Add another to confirmed. I doubt the drop rates will be any different though, I seem to get the same average of 3 ores per spot myself, and gems I didn't bother to check really. Definitely faster, even without the addition of another pickaxe. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 11:17, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

I've discovered that it's possible to get three ores every time you mine. All you have to do is start mining and after hitting the rock three times, and getting your first ore, stop and pull away. Then start mining again and deplete the area. That way you´ll get three pieces of ore :o)

== Mining as a job ==

It seems that like woodcutting and farming, you can also mine ore for people and sell it to them as a form of work. Why you'd ever want to I don't know but at steamscorch for instance the miner in there tells you to mine some ore and he'll pay you for it. Instead I ran off with all the malachite ingots to smith into things but perhaps low level players in search of gold and lacking the right smithing perks might find mining as a job useful. [[Special:Contributions/87.194.26.132|87.194.26.132]] 03:18, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

== selling ore ==

I don't know how to add sections so if someone could add this one. At certain "big" mines, a mine owner will buy that type of ore. This is pretty useful for gold ore, excess oricalcum/ebony/moonstone you don't use anymore, even iron ore if you're not a mage or can't be bothered transmuting it all.

Pavo Attius buys gold ore, located at Left Hand Mine then moves to Kolskeggr if you do the quest. Might die when forsworn respawn?
Skaggi Scar-face buys iron ore, lives at Left Hand Mine.

Quicksilver is the owner in Dawnstar, I don't know the name. Oricalcum and Ebony are presumably orcs at one of the big mines of theirs. Finally Moonstone is the fellow hiding outside Soljund's Sinkhole.

== Region not necessary ==

Is adding Region columns to all the tables actually necessary? I believe they only clutter up the article. This article should only provide a quick overview of which locations (mostly interiors) contain the best sources for ore. If you want to head out to a location you'll probably want to open its article anyway to find the most detailed directions. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 10:01, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think its needed, i'm tempted to remove them all. But i'm going to ask the editor what he thinks, and what his reasoning his first before I do that. And maybe wait for an opinion or two --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 19:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::When I first saw the tables it was obvious, (to me), that the region information was both missing, (i.e. it should be there), and important. You need to keep in mind how this page will be used by people, (I don't believe that Timenn's example will be common). People will be playing the game, (as I was when I first searched for the page), they will be in a certain area/hold and will want to know quickly which veins are nearby so that they can take advantage of being close to them. Yes, this information is available on other pages but that means in order to find the veins in a certain area the user has to click on every single place name in order to find out where these places are. Why not just have the information readily available? There is plenty of space available on the page for the column. It helps order the veins by Hold. It brings more structure to the information.

::Say for example I wanted to go to The Rift and mine Corundum Ore. There are 29 entries currently in that table and it's only going to get larger as more veins are found. Without the region column I'd have to click on all 29 location names to find out which of the veins are in The Rift. This just isn't necessary and would be hugely frustrating.
::[[User:Helgan|Helgan]] 08:49, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

:::Well, i'd say that this depends on browsing techniques. But I expect to have to click on the place name to find more information, or we might as well not have place pages at all and just have massive lists. We try to avoid massive lists where possible, and those long ones contain hardly any ''extra'' information that isn't needed. E.g. on lists of items we don't have a seperate column for locations. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 21:14, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
::::I would also expect to click on a place name to find out more in depth information regarding that place. But if you're only interested in places in a certain region how do you know which places you need to click on? I would rather have that information shown in the table than have to click on all 29 places, (as in the Corundum Ore example). Your point about not needing place pages due to putting all of the information relating to a place in the table is a bit extreme - we're talking about a single piece of additional, (and in my opinion relevant), information. A precedent has already been set for this in the same table. Number of veins is already in both the table and the place page. Do you suggest removing that column from the table also? [[User:Helgan|Helgan]] 21:33, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::I see your point, keeping the region could be helpful with sorting. It's not like we're short on width for the detail columns, so I agree to keep the region columns. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 22:23, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

== Ebony Ore ==
I found some ebony ore in The Brine Hammer below deck on a shelf, along with a few other random pieces of ore, I did not see any place where I could add that location that I found it in, so I am putting it in the talk page, it should be respawnable because it was not found in a chest.

== Firewood Bug ==

When I started the game I would mine and get 3 of whatever ore and possibly some gems. Ever since the first time I chopped wood, I now get: 3 ore, random gems, and 6 firewood. It pops up a message that I received (2) firewood each time I receive 1 ore.

This occurs when I "use" the ore vein, but not when I equip a pickaxe and attack it.

I'm running on PC, version 1.2.12.0, can anyone else confirm this bug?

== Gloombound Ebony Veins ==

I found that when i entered gloombound on occasions, i would not let me mine any of the ebony veins even though i could see that they had respawned. It would let me mine the iron veins though. i walked out of the mine and back in and it must have refreshed itself or soemthing because suddenly i could mine them all again.

:This happens to me as well (PC). [[Special:Contributions/99.127.216.68|99.127.216.68]] 12:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC) snoopy369
::After waiting 10, 30, and 60 days for the mine to respawn ore (and seeing the veins color change to indicate it should be okay to mine) Gloombound is still broken for me. Traveled to other cells when waiting, waited in the mine, and waited outside in the same hold as the mine. Patch v1.3, 4GB exe mod, otherwise vanilla installation (PC). Update - My character had a clipping issue with the veins that were not working; I was able to walk through each defective vein while other veins could be climbed on and were otherwise functional obstacles in game. Ended up disabling and re-enabling every ebony ore vein in the mine via console. After 10+ days the veins still could not be mined without console commands. (Note: This is probably a good thing but disable/enable does not reset the respawn timer, it just enables mining when it should be. At least that's what it looks like.) Anyone able to repeat my experience? [[Special:Contributions/99.49.61.3|99.49.61.3]]

== Bug: Veins respawn visually only - not useable in game world. ==

I am consistently having a bug where if I mine a vein, either by hitting "Use" or by turbo-mining with two pickaxes, after 30-ish in-game days the vein of ore will be visually there (rocks get the coloured stripes again) but you cannot actually "Use" the ore vein and hitting it with pickaxes does nothing.
This is happening to all veins, everywhere in the world. Was happening with 1.1, 1.2 and now with 1.3 on PC
RESOLUTION:
Leave the area of the vein and re-enter. For instance, leave the mine, and go back in. The veins now work normally. [[Special:Contributions/109.193.121.249|109.193.121.249]] 21:14, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
:I've had similar problems, but I think it has to do with collision, because I tried leaving the cell and re-entering, and still couldn't mine. So I used tcl and tried getting the "mine" message, which I only got in an otherwise impossible angle ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] 00:10, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

== Mining glitch ==

Another way to solve the glitch of not being able to mine respawned ores is simple, manual mining. Just swing your pickaxe at the ore just like a weapon (get close) and you'll get the ore.

:i have tried this, it doesnt work ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC))

== help with bugs ==

''Sometimes a graphical glitch can occur where the Dragonborn will clip through an ore vein. This also stops the player from mining the vein, and can occur in all veins. This only appears to happen when Skyrim has been installed on your console (XBOX 360). ''
: If i uninstall it off my xbox will the ores be mineable again? ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:36, 23 December 2011 (UTC))

== glitch ==

several times i've experienced a glitch where i start the mining amination, and my character just keeps swinging his pick at the rock without gaining ores, its easily fixed by ending the amination and starting a new one but still kinda annoying. First time was in Karthwasten, several times in there, second was in dawnstar the quicksilver mine there ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:59, 23 December 2011 (UTC))
:I've had this before, in quicksilver mine now that you mention it, but I don't think that's relevant but pure coincidence. I've also had a glitch when I've just finished getting the ores, my character immediately starts mining again when the animation stopped, with the same problem mentioned above. Luckily fixed by simply pressing a button to stop ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] 04:03, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

== Goldenrock Cave/Darkwater Crossing Corundum ==

Where is the fifth corundum ore vein at Darkwater Crossing? There are only 4 veins in Goldenrock Mine, so is there one outside the cave? [[User:Melleh17|Melleh17]] 02:22, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

== Soul Gems and Corundum Ore ==

It says on the page that occasionally, on the PS3 version, one can obtain Corundum ore from the geode veins in Blackreach; However, I've confirmed that the veins give Corundum ore no matter what version you're playing. Tested on the 360 and PC versions, with confirmation on the PS3.

== Ore respawning time ==

No mineshaft I have visited yet respawned in ten days and none of them we cleared. Anyone confirm it can actually happen? It should also be reworded in my opinion, the way it is now suggests uncleared mines always take ten days. I can easily prove that false. Can anyone straighten my understanding here please? Thanks in advance. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 17:06, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Werewolf

2011-12-28T16:41:36Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Female model of werewolves? */

== True rumor? ==

Is this true? Where is the source?
--[[Special:Contributions/84.81.49.194|84.81.49.194]] 19:33, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
:It was confirmed about a week ago, mainly due to pirated content. I don't want to post any links to pirated content, just google "Skyrim werewolves leaked" and you should find plenty of info.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:03, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

::What about the denial from one of the main artists? The link on the Skyrim:Skyrim page? [[User:Dovahreid|Dovahreid]] 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:::You could just easily ask, what about about the Xbox World preview that stated "Skyrim is home to werewolves as well as vampires"? Because of the contradictory information, I removed that link on the main Skyrim page a few days ago; I don't think any information can be definitively confirmed or denied until the game is released. In the meantime, every page on the site has a big banner at the top saying that '''This article is based only upon Skyrim previews''' and that everything in the article is subject to change. Debating the details when we don't have all the information isn't going to accomplish anything. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 14:16, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

== Wearing silver armors and weapons ==

Does wearing silver armors and weapons hurt yourself? -[[User:Kote|Kote]] 17:41, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

No it doesn't [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 04:55, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

== Werebears? ==

In Daggerfall there was a book that said that in Skyrim, werebears are the most common type of lycanthrope. Does anyone think this will still be the case?[[User:Garan|Garan]] 05:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

First. Remember to sign your posts. Second "Lycanthrope only applies to wolves. Lycan is derived from greek lykánthrōpos lýkos meaning wolf and ánthrōpos man. (unclear as to where that is a translation in to the Old English "man" or the Middle English "man" which mean two different things.) Now a Werebear would more accurately be called an arktoanthrope. [[Special:Contributions/98.74.159.102|98.74.159.102]] 15:15, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know how to sign my posts, and that has been rectified. Secondly, I am aware of the distinctions. What the book, [[Daggerfall:On Lycanthropy|On Lycanthropy]] said, however, was: "As I mentioned before, the werebear is the most common lycanthrope in Skyrim". The book does briefly mention that there is a distinction, but it dismisses it as semantics.[[User:Garan|Garan]] 05:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

== I'm gonna give this a go ==

:::I'm not good at the formatting or anything but i'll put the information up because I got the guide and want to help. --[[User:SGG Caboose|SGG Caboose]] 20:49, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

== werewolve cam ==

ive just recently turnd and now the camra seems a lil messed up when i dont have my weppon out the cam is up close to my character insted of being able to see my hole body i can only see the top half not sure if this is a glitch or any thing all so playing on the 360 version[[User:Sorrow|The sorrow]] 12:48, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

:Are you meaning when you revert to normal form? If so, when you turn the camera does it only move the camera but not your character? If that is happening then fear not, its normal. Just hold in the right stick and push down on the left stick like you want to move backwards. It will shift the camera focus away from your character and back to normal. If your meaning in beast form, then as far as I know its normal to show only half, but dunno how you got weapons out in that form.--[[User:Dro'Bakha|Dro'Bakha]] 12:55, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

::ah thanks dident relise bout the camra zoom lol [[User:Sorrow|The sorrow]] 13:12, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Im getting an error saying I cant edit this page. I just wanted to add two tidbits maybe someone else can do it: even outside werewolf form, having the wolf-blood changes two things. Your character gains 100% resistance to disease (which prevents Vampirism), and he can no longer gain Rested XP for sleeping in a bed. The latter tidbit appears in loading scene info after the first change.

== Transformation bug? ==

My Nord completed the Blood Ritual but everytime I return to "myself" I become a Dunmer. Has anyone else had this trouble? [[User:Patterson|Patterson]] 05:04, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
you shure it isnt just the lighting?

'''The transformation code seems to be bugged.''' If you have used SetPlayerRace or ShowRaceMenu to change your character race from the start of the game, the code seems to revert you back to the original race choice you made at the start of the game. Possibly a variable in the script that wasn't updated somewhere. Possibly easily fixed by adding a check to update the race variable upon casting of Beast Form. [[User:Jimhsu|Jimhsu]] 22:24, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Urgent help!!!!! ==

im on the silverhand quest, to do with becomming a werewolf, and i have just woken from having fainted a second time. the huntswoman (forgotton her name) tells me i have to go and kill the silver hands. i dont want to do this however. so i fast travel to a town and she is still following me. i realise that she will continue to follow me until i complete the quest. what i want to know is, is there any way i can quit this quest? (my last save was after my awakoning from the second faint)

any help on this would be greatly appriciated as i cant continue until i quit this quest. thank you. [[User:Kate the great|Kate the great]] 16:34, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
: You don't have to ask the same question in two different places. As a general rule, SAVE your game before starting quests, especially two days after release - other than that, see my response [[Skyrim_talk:The_Silver_Hand|here]]. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:00, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

kill her. i doubt she's essential then. [[User:Zach9054|Zach9054]] 19:05, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

== vampire cure ==

I while doing this quest, my character was cured of vampirism, is this a bug or has my time of being a creature of the night truly came to an end? {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 15:32, 14 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:Becoming a werewolf cures you of being a Vampire. Once you become a werewolf you can not become a Vampire through normal means, even if you cure yourself of the Beast Blood. [[User:Rayce Kaiser|Rayce Kaiser]] 13:09, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not true as I have just found out, while doing the quest "a daedra's best friend" I contracted sanguinare vampiris (please excuse my awful spelling) and three days later I got the "vampire powers" message and vampiric drain, servant and sight so unless this is a massive bug, our info and vampirism and lycanthropy is untrue, I play on the PS3 if that helps {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 21:11, 22 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:::I got cured of lycanthropy, acquired the vampire's disease, and then waited three days. I'm now a vampire. It seems to work just fine on PC, just make sure you wait a full 72 hours and then give it a minute. [[Special:Contributions/75.91.63.29|75.91.63.29]]

could be a bug as being a werewolf gives you 100% immunity to diseases, same with vampires although vampires can become werewolves if they drink their blood which both cures them and curses/blesses them with a new condition. i have fought vampires as a werewolf and have never contracted the disease, so i say bug, do you have both powers or are you now cured of lycanthropy and now a vampire? Mr Scryer [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 14:23, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:Cured of lycanthropy {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 20:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)}}

odd, according to the guide its impossible to be a vampire if you are a werewolf (due to the 100% immunity to disease) but you can become a werewolf if you are a vampire by doing the companions quest line [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 20:56, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

if you guys fully read the previous posts, you would see that they re-contracted vampirism AFTER THE CURED THEIR LYCANTHROPY no one said they have both --[[Special:Contributions/99.232.209.22|99.232.209.22]] 00:10, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Apologies for that, i was aware of the earlier post (that they got cured) but i had mistakenly believed the poster after was saying they were both werewolf and vampire but now i now what the poster meant, still a bug i think as i hear the cure for lycanthropy makes the player immune to disease, i know you can become a vampire again if you are cured of vampirism by doing the vampire cure quest.[[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 21:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Guys I need help, I saw some references to glitches with this. I was a werewolf for 42 days then I did a quest for one of the daedra...the guy with the masque...can't think of his name right now. Anyway was fighting vampires without a care fully knowing i was immune. 3 days later I find myself having contracted vampirism. Now I have both powers. on my stats each day is added to both ( I'm now up to 45ish days werewolf and 3ish days vampire.) both are going up, both have the effects on ( except for the weaknesses of vampire and pwers...but i also have werewolf as well.) I still get the remarks about being a werewolf from guards, as well as vampire from people. I don't want to cue vampirism... it seems to be possible through a glitch to contract vampirism after being a werewolf. A bit annoying during the day time really.--[[Special:Contributions/173.2.193.61|173.2.193.61]] 07:02, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

this is usually impossible and i will say its likely a glitch but someone else needs to test it for confirmation as with 100% immunity, there is zero chance of infection. if what you saying is true then you shouldn't complain, as a hybrid with both powers you would be unique and to counter the harmful effects of daylight its best to active a stone that regenerates health and stamina, i can't remember what it is called. although i seriously doubt you can be both even by glitch, in morrowind, one could be both by putting on the ring of hircine as a vampire which while stacked powers up, it clearly had a buggy appearance. i think i will test this myself as i am a werewolf in one save file and current doing the " a daedra's best friend" quest[[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 14:38, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

just tested it and i have not contracted vampirism.[[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 15:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I was able to become both a werewolf and a vampire (pc version) multiple times now. It is extremely annoying because it breaks an important mechanic (details at end of explanation). Here is how I do/did it. First, I became a werewolf by doing the companion quest line. Then I decided to mess with my character's looks by using the command showracemenu. After using showracemenu, I believe that's when I lost my werewolf ability to be 100% immune to disease. I didn't notice I had lost my immunity until I contracted sanguine vampiris from fighting a vampire (I can also contract vampirism by typing in the console command sanguine vampiris. To contract it via console command, you must spam the addspell xxx multiple times until you see the words "you have contracted sanguine vampiris. You also must have lost your immunity by changing race). After 3 days I became a fully fledged vampire. I was able to transform into a werewolf and had the looks, perks, and cons of being a vampire. Now, the biggest problem with this was that I could no longer feed on sleeping NPCs as a vampire, which meant I got stuck as a stage 4 vampire. That alone was a deal breaker for me, so I loaded an earlier save. I have been able to become a vampire AND werewolf many, many times, but only for fun and I always revert to an earlier save because of said broken mechanic. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 08:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC))

then so far that is a pc problem, i have it on the 360 and never encountered that glitch, the weirdest thing that has ever happened to me was being a human that included vampires was getting attacked dozens of times by a master volkihar vampire and never catching vampirism, i was not immune to diseases at all though. anyway at least your hybrid glitch didn't give your werewolf a vampire head when you was in beast form. [[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 14:44, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== Bloodlust Meter ==
Where does the bloodlust meter appear for werewolves? I've already finished the related questline, and transformed numerous times, but I don't seem to have this meter.. [[Special:Contributions/108.75.41.108|108.75.41.108]] 21:40, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I read somewhere that they will be fixing this issue in the upcoming 1.2 patch, scheduled to be released about a week after Thanksgiving. I also do not (and never had) the bloodlust meter, which made it rather difficult to tell how much more time I had until I would revert back into my normal race. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 06:15, 27 November 2011 (UTC))

Unlike Oblivion, Skyrim lacks meters of any kind. You can't even tell how much breath you have left when swimming underwater. There are signs, however. If your vision starts to flash while in beast form, you're about to turn back. If you start losing health while underwater, get to fresh air...fast! --[[Special:Contributions/72.177.165.50|72.177.165.50]] 17:59, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

== Werewolf combat skill modifiers? ==
Do skill levels affect the damage amount for attacks, or the amount of damage you can absorb while in Beast Form? The Beast Form seems to be quite weak in my case - my character is strong in Stealth and Archery and usually uses Light Armour, unsure if raising other skills would benefit Beast Form? {{FC|purple|[[User:whalerid3r|whalerid3r]] 16:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:When transformed, your Health is increased, but you lose all armor. The werewolf seems to have an amount of base armor, but I don't know if the armor levels with you or not. [[User:Rayce Kaiser|Rayce Kaiser]] 13:11, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
::Through about an hour of research and testing, I have determined two things to be true. And one of the notes on the page to be false, specifically, the note that states that werewolf claw attacks are affected by one handed skill level and perks, including dual wielding. The two true things are werewolf armor rating IS affected by Light Armor skill level and the five ranks for the perk "Agile Defender". I have also determined the MAX attack and defense ratings werewolf. All of this I supply in a quote from a post I made in the Bethesda Skyrim forum earlier, complete with statistics and mathematical data, and steps to arrive at the same conclusions as I did.
<dl><dl><dl><pre style="
white-space: -moz-pre-wrap;
white-space: -pre-wrap;
white-space: -o-pre-wrap;
white-space: pre-wrap;
word-wrap: break-word;
">"After a little research of how the werewolf works in Skyrim I have found multiple, consistant claims. These are that werewolf armor rating is affected by Light Armor skill level and perks, and that the attack damage rating is affected by One Handed skill level and perks. Thirdly, I can confirm that at level 45+, the werewolf claw attack is a base of 20 plus 60, making it 80 at base value at level 45 and up.
I went and tested these claims as best as I could.

Alright, so my Current level in Light Armor is 90, and I know from UESP.net 's skill pages, every level of Light Armor increases the rating by 0.4%. And my One Handed is level 95, and I also know from UESP.net 's skill pages that every level of One Handed increases the rating by 0.5%. The supposed Light Armor skill that affect the werewolf is the first perk on the light armor tree, which I have ranked at 5. And the supposed One Handed skills that affect the werewolf are Armsman which I have ranked at 4, Dual Flurry which I have at rank 0, and Dual Savagery which I also have at rank 0. The first test I conducted was where I used the console to add Dual Flurry and Dual Savagery to see the effect on weapon speed increase with unenchanted/unimproved Daedric swords, and then the increase on werewolf claw speed. After doing one test, with the swords, their speed SIGNIFICANTLY increased, where the claw speed did not increase at all, noticeably so. Meaning those two perks mean nothing to a werewolf. So, with Armsman at level 4, the test for werewolf was easy, I simply used the console to remove my perk points in Armsman to test the damage difference with or without them on an Ice Troll set to not aggro with the console, and counted how many normal attacks to kill. After testing with and without the perk, it took the same number of hits to kill the Ice Troll in both scenarios. This means Armsman does not affect werewolf. Now that we eliminated the damage perks and are down to simply the skill increase of 0.5% per level, I can calculate the damage of a werewolf claw attack compared to a Daedric sword boosted by the perks and skill level.
Here is the math.
Werewolf: 20(base) + 60(45+ scaled) = 80
With the level increase: 80 + (80 * ((95 * 0.5) / 100)) = 80 + (80 * (47.5 / 100)) = 80 + (80 * 0.475) = 80 + 38 = 118
So my claw attacks do 118 adjusted damage.
Daedric Swords: 14 base
With level increase: 14 + (14 * 0.475) = 14 + 6.65 = 20.65
With perk bonus of 80%: 20.65 * 1.8 = 37.17
After this math I checked what a newly smithed Daedric sword would do and it was 37, so my calculation is spot on.

So with unenchanted/unimproved weapons, werewolf claws are much better, however, that Daedric sword for me is sub-par. If I equip the maximum of 4 pieces of 40% damage boost to One Handed damage armor(takes 100 enchanting, which I have, along with a grand soul, easy to get with Azura's Black Star), and also improve my sword to legendary with the heavy armor perk side of smithing and level 100 smithing, that Daedric sword is boosted to a wopping 245 damage. Making the werewolf claws egregiously obsolete. Meaning, at level 53, not a far cry from 45, werewolf attack rating is under powered, without regular weapons even being enchanted.
Now, testing the armor was a bit dicey. But I came up with a plan, first I equipped my best armor, got my rating to 1125. Then use the console command player.getavinfo DamageResist, and the output was 1125, spot on. So I turned into a werewolf and did the same. The output was 288. With that I was able to test the Light Armor perk by removing all 5 of my ranks, making the armor value to theoretically be no longer twice as high, meaning a rating of 144. So I repeated the test and sure enough, the output was 144, so that perk DOES count. And if we take my 90 light armor levels and multiply them by 0.4, we get 36, or 36% boost to light armor. So if we divide 144 by 1.36, we arrive at around 105.88. Now after I used player.setav lightarmor 0, and then redid the player.getavinfo DamageResist, it gave me a current value of 106, spot on again. So now that I know that that claim is true I can get the values for maxed Light armor. To do no math I simply used player.setav light armor 100, to set it to level 100, then did the armor test again and arrived at 148 maxed with no perks. Now if I re-add the perks my armor rating should be 296, right? Well, I added them back, and tested again, and I was right. So the ABSOLUTE maximum defense of a werewolf is 296. Now that got me thinking of a way to test the damage, so I used the command player.getavinfo UnarmedDamage. The results were saddening. The out put was 80, base was 20, level boost was 60..sound familiar? 20 + 60 = 80. What was sad was if it was in fact affected by one handed it would have been 118, right? Or if also affected by my rank 4 Armsman it would have been 214.4, right? Well it was neither. Meaning that the claw attacks simply RAISE One Handed skill experience, but it does not benefit from it.

So with that werewolf armor rating of 288 at my level, how does that compare to the up to my level armor such as full Dragonscale unenchanted/unimproved? Not well. With the perks I have and skill level, my total defense with Dragonscale armor/boots/gloves/helmet came to 140 + 43 + 43 + 60 = 286. Honestly that number made me laugh when I saw it. So this means that if I have full unenchanted/unimproved Dragonscale, and go into werewolf form I am gaining 2 armor rating(woopie) and 43 damage from my Daedric sword, bundled with a weakness to silver weapons, no magic resistance aside from any racial traits. But of course, that's if I had only base weaponry and armor, and even then it isn't much of a boost. And in my opinion, 288 defense and 80 damage do not compare to 1125 defense and 245 damage.

Now after compiling all this data, I can see why some people think it is overpowered. Well it is, at low levels, where the enemies are low level as well. At mid levels it would be basically just a special skin change power with a knock out punch. And at 45+ levels, it is worthless.

It is for those reasons I believe that werewolf needs a scaling buff."</pre></dl></dl></dl>
::That's just about it.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 02:07, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

:::Really good research. I think a simple-ish fix would simply be to prevent armor/weapons from being unequipped (any way to hide the actual sword model?) That would automatically fix many of the scaling problems. [[User:Jimhsu|Jimhsu]] 04:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I've attempted the same process you did, and the MAX attack for a werewolf is indeed 80. However, when I tested out my light armor skill/perks effect on my armor rating as a werewolf it did not result the same. I equipped full dragonscale (no shield), used console to add all the light armor perks and set my light armor skill to 100. I transformed into a werewolf and, using the player.getavinfo damageresist command, the output showed 0. In non werewolf form it was 348 (as it should be). So I am unsure how your tests led you to have an armor rating of 288 in werewolf form, unless your "best armor" was enchanted. Help me understand what went wrong. [[User:Jakndax|Jakndax]] 17:26, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

::In all honesty, I'm not too sure, it could be because you updated your game. Ever since the update I've been hearing that same statement. "The output was 0". It could be possible that along with the Magic Resistances, they botched the damage resistance for werewolf as-well. So, I shall retest that aspect of my results once more.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 19:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

== Ring of Hircine ==

I just got the ring of Hircine, uncursed, and I cant figure out how to use it. Is there something special I have to do to activate it? Or, when it says additional transformations, does that imply that you have to be a werewolf already, and the ring just enhances it?

The "Beast Form" is added under "powers", although you deploy it as you would a Shout. For the 360 (in my case) you equip the Beast Form power, then press RB and voila, your a werewolf.
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 02:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

So, to be clear, you don't need to be transformed into a werewolf by the Circle, the ring works without it?
: That's the general idea. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

actually the ring only works if you have become a werewolf (in human form) but if you are completely human or a vampire, then it does not work. [[Special:Contributions/86.179.19.85|86.179.19.85]] 13:44, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

:You need to be a werewolf already. However, it adds an alternative power for transforming into a werewolf, so you can do it at least twice a day, unlike the regular Beast Form which is once a day like any other power. So basically you can transform more often per day, otherwise it's pretty useless, especially when once a day is usually more than enough already. [[User:Haravikk|Haravikk]] 18:12, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

== Curing Werewolfism / witch head bug? ==

Is anybody else experiencing a bug during which you cannot cure your werewolf condition? I completed the optional objective (Which I'm learning is a pain in the tush most times) during the quest when you cure Kodlak of his condition, and completely wiped out all 5 of the witches. I went back (with four extra witch's heads) to cure my werewolfism, but nothing happens when I activate the blue flame. And also, I found out, that the four extra heads (4 pounds each = 16 pounds) are quest items and therefore undropable.

And since I'm on the 360, there's no way of me consoling my way out of this. Anybody have a clue as to how I should go about curing my werewolfism, and hence ridding myself of these burdensome... heads? A Well nights rest would sure be great right about now
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 03:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey man, i had the same bug on PC. I did some quests and sold all but one witchhead to someone (don't know, why the "thats a quest item, can't sell!" didn't pop up). With only one Witchhead it worked for me.

::I am pretty sure once you finish the main quest line for the Companions guild, the witch heads are no longer counted as quest items. After completing all Companion quests, I was ablee to throw the rest of my witch heads into storage containers in my house. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 06:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC))

I've got the same bug. A few things i've learned: 
- pulling all companions to the cave one by one to stand right next to flame (in case those heads are somehow assigned to people) - doesn't work. 
- number of whitchheads in your inventory does not matter - flame won't activate. 
- whitchhead becomes a quest item if i drop it and then pick up agan. Then it's impossible to drop it. If i travel around for a bit (one door between maps should be enough), i can drop it again. 
- removing Beast form spell with a console will not cure you. 
So i've got a bit of a headache with this 'curing lycanthropy' thing.. perhaps, if nothing else, somebody have any idea how to cure it properly through console? [[User:RuncZ|RuncZ]] 22:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

: Theres a console code on the main page, along with a solution. Turns out, you must cure Vilkas and Farkas before you can cure yourself. Until you cure them two, the heads are quest items.
::Wonderful.. exactly what i need. Thanks :) [[User:RuncZ|RuncZ]] 23:09, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

It seems like they are only quest items ''after'' you pick them up, after completing the quest in which you cure Kodlak. Meaning, you must cure Kodlak, then pick up a witch head. If your carrying extra witchheads when you finish the Kodlak-cure quest, they are not quest items. They must be dropped first, then picked up again. It's the picking up after the quest completion that signifies them as quest items. Hope you can understand and follow that. [[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 00:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== THE BEST WEREWOLF? ==

ok, i saw the werewolf thing and i was exited (much better than vampirism in oblivion..!)but i saw the dissadvantages and i was a bit dissapointed...i have to ask some things just to be sure.
1: if u r a werewolf u cant gain your health at all even as a human when u r sleeping or waiting or just in werewolf form?
2: whats better to be a werewolf from the cicle or with the ring?r they any differencies at all?

:1: Health regeneration etc. is not affected in human shape. Beast form is it's own seperate body with a health meter that refills by eating your victims rather than automatically. Eating victims also seems to extend the Beast form duration.
:2: I don't have the ring, but I'd assume the difference is that when you are NOT a werewolf and simply use the ring to transform into a beast when you feel like it, you still get the resting bonuses. On the other hand, when stripped of all items - which can happen in Quests - the Beast form comes in very handy but your ring will be where all your other stuff is.
:Generally: There really are no 'big' disadvantages to having a lycantrophe blood as the resting bonus is negligable - other than having to backtrack through dungeons to pick up any wanted items after reverting back to human shape. However, it's usefulness is limited to humanoid enemies with poor magic skills. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== About Silver ==

Once you gain the Beast Form power, do silver weapons cause increased damage at all times, or is it only when you're in beast form?
: Haven't noticed any increased damage from silver weapons, where would it say they do? --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
: It's kind of assumed that everyone knows that... and they even inform you during the Blood Circle quest. And to answer the question above, you are only weak to silver while in Beast Form.
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 23:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Followers? ==

Has anyone transformed in front of a follower? How did they react?[[Special:Contributions/96.244.144.7|96.244.144.7]] 06:17, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I have transformed in front of delphine, esbern and they did not react with acceptance of my lycanthropy, esbern summonesd his frost atronach and all three of them attacked me {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 09:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::I transformed in the middle of Breezehome. Lydia didn't give a damn. --[[Special:Contributions/86.142.76.58|86.142.76.58]] 10:33, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I have Faendal around all the time, he seems to know that its me and does not attack me although I do not have access to the wait function for some reason as the game proably thinks that Faendal is an enemy or that everyone is considered an enemy in beast form but some comapnions are aware of your true identiy and choose not to attack. The only way he seems to attack is if I use the Werewolf`s growl power (R2 or RB on consoles) then it says that my follower has left my service and Faendal runs away from me in fear only to return deeming me a threat and trying to kill me.--[[Special:Contributions/90.199.32.254|90.199.32.254]] 16:30, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::::Derkeethus doesn't care if you transform in front of him either.
:::::Aela the Huntress also does not react in any hostile way to your beast form, and waiting is possible next to her

== Force return to human form? ==

Is there a way to force end the beast form and return to human form, or do you simply have to wait out the timer?

: Wait it out, simplest way is the in-game wait feature, wait for an hour. You will be shown as a werewolf after it but revert to human within seconds. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 09:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

== Beast Form Problems ==

I've had a few problems when playing as a werewolf on the XBox 360

1. When I become a werewolf I still have the sheath for my sword and sometimes a sword in my hand (paw/claw)

2. Instead of not being able to loot and being able to feed on corpses, instead I can loot corpses but not feed on them (all in beast form).

Just wondering if anyone else had these problems or even a way to fix them?

-jake11996-

I've have had the first problem a few times on pc, however it isn't consistent in occurrence, seems to
happen at random. The second I've never encountered though.

::Ive encountered the bug with my sword still being in my hand when ive turned but it doesnt seem to affect gameplay expect for looking slightly odd. Ive noticed that by unequiping all weapons before you use beast form solves the issue if your that concerned about it. I have never encountered the second glitch but im sure it will fix itself as is the way with these bugs.--[[Special:Contributions/90.199.32.183|90.199.32.183]] 20:06, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

:::The weapon in hand bug is a glitch in the game engine where Bethesda didn't code it to unequip secondary weapons. Funny thing is, enchantments and damage from the weapon still apply. This glitch usually occurs if you have a sword and shield equipped, then switch to a bow, and transform while the bow is equipped. Two avoid this, just switch to sword and shield before transforming. [[Special:Contributions/121.98.207.151|121.98.207.151]] 01:30, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

== wtf? ==

warewolves have terrible night vision i keep losing the silver hand quest because it's so dark i cant hit my enemies
::Werewolves in skyrim dont have night vision by default, just lure them to an area that does have light or dont fight them in your beast form since most of the sliver hand have sliver weapons which deal extra damage to werewolves.

==Disease==

Should lycanthropy be classified as a disease ? It is similar to vampirism in ways [disease] and can be cured like a disease.

No i thought the same but i realized it shouldnt in bloodmoon it could be classified as a disease because you could catch it on random encouters with werewolfs but even if you fought a werewolf on skyrim you couldnt catch its a more of a power than a disease. [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 23:41, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Beast Blood ID ==

What is the console id for Beast Blood? I've tried the "help" command but I can't find it. [[User:Starbucksisevil|Starbucksisevil]] 19:20, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
: The Spell ID for Beast Blood is 000f5ba0, as I put on the [[Skyrim:Powers|Powers]] page, under [[Skyrim:Abilities|Abilities]]. The ID wasn't easy to find.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 02:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much. [[User:Starbucksisevil|Starbucksisevil]] 20:01, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Something weird is going on with my character. I am a werewolf, but somehow while playing through the game I have lost my beast blood perk/effect. I typed in player.addspell 000f5ba0, and the game says "resist disease added", but under the active effects tab there is no "resist disease". Also, when I sleep, it always tells me I awake feeling well rested and I get the well rested bonus and I am still able to contract other diseases. If I try to add the same spell again, it says resist disease has not been added. So the game thinks I have the ability already, but in reality, I don't. This glitch is also kind of fun because I can be both a vampire and werewolf at the same time. However, it seems to break the "feed" option as a vampire, so if you become a vampire you will be doomed to stage 4. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 05:24, 9 December 2011 (UTC))

:The most likely reason as to why that is, is because you lost your beast blood ability, got Vampirism, which usurped the "No longer sleep well" effect of a werewolf. The feeding is probably because werewolves were coded to feed on dead people, which is usurping the Vampire ability to feed on live people, don't quote me, I am logically guesstimating. That's my two-cents.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 06:10, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

::That makes sense, thanks for the cents lol ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 08:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC))

== Disease immunity bug? ==

As a Werewolf I still managed to contract a disease, Rattles (from a Dwemer spinning blade trap if you were interested), despite the 100% disease resistance. Just thought I'd share.

::The Skyrim 1.2 [[SR:Patch|Patch]] causes all resistances, including disease, to become useless. I was wondering if this allows werewolves to become vampires? -[[User:13ryce|13ryce]]

:::This isn't specific to 1.2. My werewolf character contracted Rockjoint from a pendulum-blade trap in 1.1. - ND

I just got Witbane. I got it from a bear-trap so maybe they broke the disease resistance with regards to traps only because I still don't get any diseases when I tangle with bears and wolves and I sometimes let them swipe at me a lot because I am building up my bow skill and will continue to use it on packs of wolves and bears even after they've closed distance --[[User:DagmarH|DagmarH]] 23:16, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

== Howl of Rage (Werewolf Fear Spell) ==

Is the roar/power/shout affected at all by any of the illusion perks that deal with fear and such?
A lot of perks that people say do not affect the werewolf do seem to.
As a sneak character i have the perk that makes me able to walk over pressure plates without setting them off, and this seems to carry over into werewolf form.

But the big question for me is whether or not the illusion perks that raise the level of fear spells or spells vs humanoids, or makes illusion effects usable on daedra and such function to improve the effects of the werewolf howl. I play on the 360 so I can't check this easily... would anyone with a PC please use the console command to add the illusion perks and test if they affect the werewolf in any way? Please and thank you :)

:are you sure it's howl of rage? is it a different one than the default one? because i have the default scent of blood roar from before the totem quest and it doesn't work on everyone even with all the perks

== Still no fix for the "Days as Werewolf" bug? ==

Is there still no way to convince the game you are cured? It's minor but the fact I have 80+ days as werewolf despite being cured at the soonest opputunity is bothersome. If anyone knows of something email me at - tehsorrow@gmail.com

Currently to my known knowledge there isnt but there will most likley be a patch that may fix this problem [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 05:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

You can use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command: ''set PlayerIsWerewolf to 0'' This should stop the "Days as Werewolf" from counting on (works for me), but make sure you have done everything else for the cure before! --[[User:Psychomc|Psychomc]] 23:15, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

== weird glitch. ==

I've been a werewolf before but now when i press the button it doesn't load the animation and i stay human. after which i can use normal attackes but i cant open my menu, im on the Vanilla version of the game with no patches and on xbox, does anyone know why this is. [[Special:Contributions/208.54.85.171|208.54.85.171]]

== Female model of werewolves? ==

My character is a female and when she transforms, she transforms into the same male model of werewolf. Does anyone consider this a bug? (It's obvious when you look at the chest of the werewolf, it's definitely masculine chest muscle even if your werewolf should definitely have breasts. Not the kind of human breasts but breasts of beasts, should be distinguishable.) --[[Special:Contributions/223.18.170.179|223.18.170.179]] 10:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
:Probably not, because if you look at Aela in werewolf form it's the same model. I could see Bethesda releasing a female werewolf model later on, but it's not part of the current game. [[User:Gideon Dragontongue|Gideon Dragontongue]] 03:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
::halp my real life is bugged my dog she doens't have boobs plz ficx
::: I don't think it's a bug. The werewolf model doesn't display 'male' characteristics either (no conveniently-placed tuft to cover up what should be there, etc), and lore-wise they Hircine's hounds, created for the sole purpose of the hunt, so I doubt that they're meant to be sexual creatures or display sexual traits (nor would they normally care about such things, being overwhelmed by bloodlust). - ND
::::I'm not 100% aware of the rules of the discussion pages (if mentioning other sites is allowed), but I do know the popular Skyrim modding site "Skyrim Nexus" has a few mods in the making for female werewolves. I play a male character myself, but if you have the PC version of Skyrim you should definitely check that site for those types of things, or you could even make a mod request for your idea. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 05:55, 16 December 2011 (UTC))

Ive played a male and female werewolf in the game the only thing i see is a difference between them is the werewolf for the male is much bigger than the female. [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 06:13, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
:I would imagine they didn't create a different body for the female werewolf because they'd have to give her six nipples, if they were going to follow a canine body type. Kind of hard to take a werewolf seriously when she's wearing three bras. -- [[User:Wordmama|Wordmama]] 18:45, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

lol yeah bethsesda i dont think would care to make girl and boy "parts" for the werewolf there is no need for them on the werewolf anyway but just look for some mods that fixes the body[[User:J'Skar|J'Skar]] 18:52, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm the original poster here and I didn't have the account yet when I posted.
So I'm playing on my PS3, and no mods are possible.
What I mean is, look at the Argonians, lizards with breasts, just because they are humanoid. Look at the Kajits, catties with only one pair instead of three. So I'd imagine werewolves should at least show some feminine characteristics. And the lore says they're Hircine's hounds and only overwhelmed by violent. But I don't believe something could know violent if they don't know about sex. Besides, breasts are not for sex, they are for feeding children. I believe werewolves, that they appear as beasts, in their design, there should have genes that enable them to feed their small children, just that the spiritual transformation doesn't allow it, doesn't mean the target model shouldn't be equipped for this natural instinct. And for dogs having three pairs, it's more about the usual number of children a mother should have in a single pregnancy. For human, mothers usually give birth to one child for each pregnancy and for dogs, it'd be around three. So human have one pair while dogs have three pairs. I imagine if werewolves are to have children someway, they should be more like human than dogs, as they stand with two feet, and have only one pair of breasts. And for the problem of bras, I believe the fur of a werewolf is the best bra for the purpose of the game. They put the bra here just to avoid certain parts being seen by the player while they stripe the fallen. The bra shouldn't even be invented before machines being invented. --[[User:Joshua.yathin.yu|Joshua.yathin.yu]] 09:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Couldn't be any worse than how they depicted Azura originally, so why not. So long as what Joshua said is implimented, it wouldn't be crossing any lines in my opinion. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 16:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

== Advantage to curing ==
I haven't started the companions questline yet and I was just wondering what the advantage or reason for curing lycanthropy is. From reading the page it seems like it is just a power you can use once a day so why would you want to cure it, or am I missing something?[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:32, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

The main and only disadvantage of lycanthropy is, that you cannot gain [[Skyrim:Sleeping|resting bonuses]]! So you have to ponder if 100% resistance to all diseases and once per day Power Beast Form equalize no resting bonuses... For me it was absolutly clear, cause i dont like "once per day" powers, and im argonian, so i already have 50% resistance and i want to use the +10% resting bonus. --[[User:Psychomc|Psychomc]] 23:26, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
:Ah, I see now. You probably also wouldn't be able to become a vampire either. I never sleep in the game so I think I'll leave the cure for now. Thanks for the help.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:13, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

== Werewolves in the Wild? ==

Can anyone tell me if there are any werewolves that are just random fights? cause I havent come across one yet and that sucks cause I really wanna fight one. I havent done the champions crap cause I dont want to. I'm a vampire that wants to kick some wolf ass! How hard is it to create a few werewolves on top of mountain areas?
:Sorry, there arn't any wild werewolves. The only way you can fight a werewolf is during [[Skyrim:Ill Met By Moonlight|Ill Met By Moonlight]].[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:22, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

::It is possible to occasionally find a live werewolf in the Silver Hand bases, although you normally only visit those during the Companions questline and doing so at other times may break that quest chain (among other things). It is also unlikely to provide much of a challenge since they're locked in cells or cages and can't attack you (although some of your attacks can strike them through the bars), and not particularly powerful as enemies even if you release them. - ND

== Vampire/Werewolf hybrid ==

Using the console to inflict yourself with Sanguinare Vampiris after becoming werewolf during the Companions questline makes it possible to be vampire and werewolf simultaneously. It is done by forcing the console with the "player.addspell 000b8780" command and it will eventually inflict you with the disease even though you are 100% resistant to diseases because of your beast blood.

However, upon tranforming into a werewolf (after becoming a vampire) and then reverting back to normal causes the vampiric facial changes and comments from NPCs about your pale skin and eyes full of hunger to disappear (eye color, pale skin, mouth-region, teeth). You will keep all vampire powers and effects, and you may transform into a werewolf as pleased (provided that you are in possession of the Ring of Hircine). Though, you will lose the ability to feed on ANY NPC, thus turning your soon-to-be Blood-Starved stage 4 vampirism permanent, as there is no way to return to stage 1 unless feeding. Transforming into a werewolf and feeding on killed victims will not substitute feeding as a vampire, and will not affect your stage of vampirism.

This makes a combination of vampire and werewolf tricky to play, as you will be attacked by all NPCs in the game, get a 100% weakness to fire, -100% magicka, health and stamina recovery, and you will not be able to get the well-rested bonus. Furthermore werewolves have a weakness to silver weapons, and are relatively weak in higher levels in regards of damage output, defense and magical resistance (see topic "Werewolf combat skill modifiers?"). Being affected by the +25% illusion spell efficiency and getting all the illusion perks may to some extend be helpful living a life as hybrid.

Keep in mind, you will only experience these changes if you transform into a werewolf after becoming a vampire. You will still be able to look like a vampire and feed like a vampire if you do not transform. If you choose to transform and later decide to check if the console can help you (by typing player.setrace (playerrace)racevampire) to feed again, then you might be disappointed. Even though it allows you to feed again, it will not return your vampiric facial changes and the action will lock ground/root you in your current spot, and you cannnot move nor spin the camera more than 180 degrees. Transforming into a werewolf in this state will only worsen the problem by restraining your camera view even further, and you will have to reload a previously saved game in order to fix it.

Mini-conclusion:
Playing a hybrid vampire/werewolf leaves the player in troubled waters, and will need too much time trying to fix the problems. This leaves out few options: Do not try to play as a hybrid - use the time on the good things in this game rather than cleaning up "your own mess". However, if you are a "Tamriel Veteran" you might get a good challenge beating master difficulty while living a life as vampire/werewolf hybrid.

If you want to play as a werewolf, then it is most beneficial at lower levels.

If you want to play as a vampire, then the advantages and disadvantages are best balanced by playing a spellcaster or a stealth character (or mixed). Playing a melee-based character can be difficult due to the high exposure of fire spells/fire enchantments (vampires have a weakness to fire, and fire damage is very common).

== No sleep bonuses ==

Shouldn't the fact you gain no sleeping bonuses from resting under disadvantages? [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 05:30, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
:I added it to the list, you can add things like that if you want:)[[User:RIM|RIM]] 15:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

== Can't pick up stuff ==

It says on the page that you have no weight encumbrance although you can't pick up stuff; is this just as a wolf or in human form too?[[Special:Contributions/67.168.149.21|67.168.149.21]] 06:43, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

In human form, you can still become overencumbered in human form. Also, in human form, you can pick things up as normally. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 15:16, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

::It's apparently possible to be overburdened in werewolf form, but you'd have to arrange it deliberately: beast form works by giving you a massive increase to your carrying capacity, and you could theoretically pick up enough stuff to remain above the new limit when you change. - ND {{uns|174.4.166.247|09:44, December 27, 2011}}

== Workaround found for Beast Form early ending! ==

Hello!

I just found a workaround for the issue, which was aroud the werewolf Beast Form. The issue was that, sometimes the script got bugged and you reverted back to original form after seconds of first transformation. Well, I located that the bug might come from the patches, 'cos with unpatched skyrim it worked fine for me, but after patch 1.3 the Beast Form magnitude mysteriously changed to 1 second. Also Ring of Hircine power affected. However, I prefer to use set timescale 1 for a more realistic gaming experimence, and I found that, if I set it to 1, then set back to 20, the original setting, the Beast Form works correctly. I cannot imagine how is that possible, please check it on other skyrims as well, but you have my word that its true. (sorry if the grammar is incorrect, I'm not a native english speaker)

Anguis Furor[[User:Anguis Furor|Anguis Furor]] 00:39, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Werewolf

2011-12-26T15:16:11Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Can't pick up stuff */

== True rumor? ==

Is this true? Where is the source?
--[[Special:Contributions/84.81.49.194|84.81.49.194]] 19:33, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
:It was confirmed about a week ago, mainly due to pirated content. I don't want to post any links to pirated content, just google "Skyrim werewolves leaked" and you should find plenty of info.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:03, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

::What about the denial from one of the main artists? The link on the Skyrim:Skyrim page? [[User:Dovahreid|Dovahreid]] 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:::You could just easily ask, what about about the Xbox World preview that stated "Skyrim is home to werewolves as well as vampires"? Because of the contradictory information, I removed that link on the main Skyrim page a few days ago; I don't think any information can be definitively confirmed or denied until the game is released. In the meantime, every page on the site has a big banner at the top saying that '''This article is based only upon Skyrim previews''' and that everything in the article is subject to change. Debating the details when we don't have all the information isn't going to accomplish anything. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 14:16, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

== Wearing silver armors and weapons ==

Does wearing silver armors and weapons hurt yourself? -[[User:Kote|Kote]] 17:41, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

No it doesn't [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 04:55, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

== Werebears? ==

In Daggerfall there was a book that said that in Skyrim, werebears are the most common type of lycanthrope. Does anyone think this will still be the case?[[User:Garan|Garan]] 05:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

First. Remember to sign your posts. Second "Lycanthrope only applies to wolves. Lycan is derived from greek lykánthrōpos lýkos meaning wolf and ánthrōpos man. (unclear as to where that is a translation in to the Old English "man" or the Middle English "man" which mean two different things.) Now a Werebear would more accurately be called an arktoanthrope. [[Special:Contributions/98.74.159.102|98.74.159.102]] 15:15, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know how to sign my posts, and that has been rectified. Secondly, I am aware of the distinctions. What the book, [[Daggerfall:On Lycanthropy|On Lycanthropy]] said, however, was: "As I mentioned before, the werebear is the most common lycanthrope in Skyrim". The book does briefly mention that there is a distinction, but it dismisses it as semantics.[[User:Garan|Garan]] 05:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

== I'm gonna give this a go ==

:::I'm not good at the formatting or anything but i'll put the information up because I got the guide and want to help. --[[User:SGG Caboose|SGG Caboose]] 20:49, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

== werewolve cam ==

ive just recently turnd and now the camra seems a lil messed up when i dont have my weppon out the cam is up close to my character insted of being able to see my hole body i can only see the top half not sure if this is a glitch or any thing all so playing on the 360 version[[User:Sorrow|The sorrow]] 12:48, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

:Are you meaning when you revert to normal form? If so, when you turn the camera does it only move the camera but not your character? If that is happening then fear not, its normal. Just hold in the right stick and push down on the left stick like you want to move backwards. It will shift the camera focus away from your character and back to normal. If your meaning in beast form, then as far as I know its normal to show only half, but dunno how you got weapons out in that form.--[[User:Dro'Bakha|Dro'Bakha]] 12:55, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

::ah thanks dident relise bout the camra zoom lol [[User:Sorrow|The sorrow]] 13:12, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Im getting an error saying I cant edit this page. I just wanted to add two tidbits maybe someone else can do it: even outside werewolf form, having the wolf-blood changes two things. Your character gains 100% resistance to disease (which prevents Vampirism), and he can no longer gain Rested XP for sleeping in a bed. The latter tidbit appears in loading scene info after the first change.

== Transformation bug? ==

My Nord completed the Blood Ritual but everytime I return to "myself" I become a Dunmer. Has anyone else had this trouble? [[User:Patterson|Patterson]] 05:04, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
you shure it isnt just the lighting?

'''The transformation code seems to be bugged.''' If you have used SetPlayerRace or ShowRaceMenu to change your character race from the start of the game, the code seems to revert you back to the original race choice you made at the start of the game. Possibly a variable in the script that wasn't updated somewhere. Possibly easily fixed by adding a check to update the race variable upon casting of Beast Form. [[User:Jimhsu|Jimhsu]] 22:24, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Urgent help!!!!! ==

im on the silverhand quest, to do with becomming a werewolf, and i have just woken from having fainted a second time. the huntswoman (forgotton her name) tells me i have to go and kill the silver hands. i dont want to do this however. so i fast travel to a town and she is still following me. i realise that she will continue to follow me until i complete the quest. what i want to know is, is there any way i can quit this quest? (my last save was after my awakoning from the second faint)

any help on this would be greatly appriciated as i cant continue until i quit this quest. thank you. [[User:Kate the great|Kate the great]] 16:34, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
: You don't have to ask the same question in two different places. As a general rule, SAVE your game before starting quests, especially two days after release - other than that, see my response [[Skyrim_talk:The_Silver_Hand|here]]. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:00, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

kill her. i doubt she's essential then. [[User:Zach9054|Zach9054]] 19:05, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

== vampire cure ==

I while doing this quest, my character was cured of vampirism, is this a bug or has my time of being a creature of the night truly came to an end? {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 15:32, 14 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:Becoming a werewolf cures you of being a Vampire. Once you become a werewolf you can not become a Vampire through normal means, even if you cure yourself of the Beast Blood. [[User:Rayce Kaiser|Rayce Kaiser]] 13:09, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not true as I have just found out, while doing the quest "a daedra's best friend" I contracted sanguinare vampiris (please excuse my awful spelling) and three days later I got the "vampire powers" message and vampiric drain, servant and sight so unless this is a massive bug, our info and vampirism and lycanthropy is untrue, I play on the PS3 if that helps {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 21:11, 22 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:::I got cured of lycanthropy, acquired the vampire's disease, and then waited three days. I'm now a vampire. It seems to work just fine on PC, just make sure you wait a full 72 hours and then give it a minute. [[Special:Contributions/75.91.63.29|75.91.63.29]]

could be a bug as being a werewolf gives you 100% immunity to diseases, same with vampires although vampires can become werewolves if they drink their blood which both cures them and curses/blesses them with a new condition. i have fought vampires as a werewolf and have never contracted the disease, so i say bug, do you have both powers or are you now cured of lycanthropy and now a vampire? Mr Scryer [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 14:23, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:Cured of lycanthropy {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 20:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)}}

odd, according to the guide its impossible to be a vampire if you are a werewolf (due to the 100% immunity to disease) but you can become a werewolf if you are a vampire by doing the companions quest line [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 20:56, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

if you guys fully read the previous posts, you would see that they re-contracted vampirism AFTER THE CURED THEIR LYCANTHROPY no one said they have both --[[Special:Contributions/99.232.209.22|99.232.209.22]] 00:10, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Apologies for that, i was aware of the earlier post (that they got cured) but i had mistakenly believed the poster after was saying they were both werewolf and vampire but now i now what the poster meant, still a bug i think as i hear the cure for lycanthropy makes the player immune to disease, i know you can become a vampire again if you are cured of vampirism by doing the vampire cure quest.[[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 21:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Guys I need help, I saw some references to glitches with this. I was a werewolf for 42 days then I did a quest for one of the daedra...the guy with the masque...can't think of his name right now. Anyway was fighting vampires without a care fully knowing i was immune. 3 days later I find myself having contracted vampirism. Now I have both powers. on my stats each day is added to both ( I'm now up to 45ish days werewolf and 3ish days vampire.) both are going up, both have the effects on ( except for the weaknesses of vampire and pwers...but i also have werewolf as well.) I still get the remarks about being a werewolf from guards, as well as vampire from people. I don't want to cue vampirism... it seems to be possible through a glitch to contract vampirism after being a werewolf. A bit annoying during the day time really.--[[Special:Contributions/173.2.193.61|173.2.193.61]] 07:02, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

this is usually impossible and i will say its likely a glitch but someone else needs to test it for confirmation as with 100% immunity, there is zero chance of infection. if what you saying is true then you shouldn't complain, as a hybrid with both powers you would be unique and to counter the harmful effects of daylight its best to active a stone that regenerates health and stamina, i can't remember what it is called. although i seriously doubt you can be both even by glitch, in morrowind, one could be both by putting on the ring of hircine as a vampire which while stacked powers up, it clearly had a buggy appearance. i think i will test this myself as i am a werewolf in one save file and current doing the " a daedra's best friend" quest[[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 14:38, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

just tested it and i have not contracted vampirism.[[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 15:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I was able to become both a werewolf and a vampire (pc version) multiple times now. It is extremely annoying because it breaks an important mechanic (details at end of explanation). Here is how I do/did it. First, I became a werewolf by doing the companion quest line. Then I decided to mess with my character's looks by using the command showracemenu. After using showracemenu, I believe that's when I lost my werewolf ability to be 100% immune to disease. I didn't notice I had lost my immunity until I contracted sanguine vampiris from fighting a vampire (I can also contract vampirism by typing in the console command sanguine vampiris. To contract it via console command, you must spam the addspell xxx multiple times until you see the words "you have contracted sanguine vampiris. You also must have lost your immunity by changing race). After 3 days I became a fully fledged vampire. I was able to transform into a werewolf and had the looks, perks, and cons of being a vampire. Now, the biggest problem with this was that I could no longer feed on sleeping NPCs as a vampire, which meant I got stuck as a stage 4 vampire. That alone was a deal breaker for me, so I loaded an earlier save. I have been able to become a vampire AND werewolf many, many times, but only for fun and I always revert to an earlier save because of said broken mechanic. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 08:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC))

then so far that is a pc problem, i have it on the 360 and never encountered that glitch, the weirdest thing that has ever happened to me was being a human that included vampires was getting attacked dozens of times by a master volkihar vampire and never catching vampirism, i was not immune to diseases at all though. anyway at least your hybrid glitch didn't give your werewolf a vampire head when you was in beast form. [[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 14:44, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== Bloodlust Meter ==
Where does the bloodlust meter appear for werewolves? I've already finished the related questline, and transformed numerous times, but I don't seem to have this meter.. [[Special:Contributions/108.75.41.108|108.75.41.108]] 21:40, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I read somewhere that they will be fixing this issue in the upcoming 1.2 patch, scheduled to be released about a week after Thanksgiving. I also do not (and never had) the bloodlust meter, which made it rather difficult to tell how much more time I had until I would revert back into my normal race. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 06:15, 27 November 2011 (UTC))

Unlike Oblivion, Skyrim lacks meters of any kind. You can't even tell how much breath you have left when swimming underwater. There are signs, however. If your vision starts to flash while in beast form, you're about to turn back. If you start losing health while underwater, get to fresh air...fast! --[[Special:Contributions/72.177.165.50|72.177.165.50]] 17:59, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

== Werewolf combat skill modifiers? ==
Do skill levels affect the damage amount for attacks, or the amount of damage you can absorb while in Beast Form? The Beast Form seems to be quite weak in my case - my character is strong in Stealth and Archery and usually uses Light Armour, unsure if raising other skills would benefit Beast Form? {{FC|purple|[[User:whalerid3r|whalerid3r]] 16:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:When transformed, your Health is increased, but you lose all armor. The werewolf seems to have an amount of base armor, but I don't know if the armor levels with you or not. [[User:Rayce Kaiser|Rayce Kaiser]] 13:11, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
::Through about an hour of research and testing, I have determined two things to be true. And one of the notes on the page to be false, specifically, the note that states that werewolf claw attacks are affected by one handed skill level and perks, including dual wielding. The two true things are werewolf armor rating IS affected by Light Armor skill level and the five ranks for the perk "Agile Defender". I have also determined the MAX attack and defense ratings werewolf. All of this I supply in a quote from a post I made in the Bethesda Skyrim forum earlier, complete with statistics and mathematical data, and steps to arrive at the same conclusions as I did.
<dl><dl><dl><pre style="
white-space: -moz-pre-wrap;
white-space: -pre-wrap;
white-space: -o-pre-wrap;
white-space: pre-wrap;
word-wrap: break-word;
">"After a little research of how the werewolf works in Skyrim I have found multiple, consistant claims. These are that werewolf armor rating is affected by Light Armor skill level and perks, and that the attack damage rating is affected by One Handed skill level and perks. Thirdly, I can confirm that at level 45+, the werewolf claw attack is a base of 20 plus 60, making it 80 at base value at level 45 and up.
I went and tested these claims as best as I could.

Alright, so my Current level in Light Armor is 90, and I know from UESP.net 's skill pages, every level of Light Armor increases the rating by 0.4%. And my One Handed is level 95, and I also know from UESP.net 's skill pages that every level of One Handed increases the rating by 0.5%. The supposed Light Armor skill that affect the werewolf is the first perk on the light armor tree, which I have ranked at 5. And the supposed One Handed skills that affect the werewolf are Armsman which I have ranked at 4, Dual Flurry which I have at rank 0, and Dual Savagery which I also have at rank 0. The first test I conducted was where I used the console to add Dual Flurry and Dual Savagery to see the effect on weapon speed increase with unenchanted/unimproved Daedric swords, and then the increase on werewolf claw speed. After doing one test, with the swords, their speed SIGNIFICANTLY increased, where the claw speed did not increase at all, noticeably so. Meaning those two perks mean nothing to a werewolf. So, with Armsman at level 4, the test for werewolf was easy, I simply used the console to remove my perk points in Armsman to test the damage difference with or without them on an Ice Troll set to not aggro with the console, and counted how many normal attacks to kill. After testing with and without the perk, it took the same number of hits to kill the Ice Troll in both scenarios. This means Armsman does not affect werewolf. Now that we eliminated the damage perks and are down to simply the skill increase of 0.5% per level, I can calculate the damage of a werewolf claw attack compared to a Daedric sword boosted by the perks and skill level.
Here is the math.
Werewolf: 20(base) + 60(45+ scaled) = 80
With the level increase: 80 + (80 * ((95 * 0.5) / 100)) = 80 + (80 * (47.5 / 100)) = 80 + (80 * 0.475) = 80 + 38 = 118
So my claw attacks do 118 adjusted damage.
Daedric Swords: 14 base
With level increase: 14 + (14 * 0.475) = 14 + 6.65 = 20.65
With perk bonus of 80%: 20.65 * 1.8 = 37.17
After this math I checked what a newly smithed Daedric sword would do and it was 37, so my calculation is spot on.

So with unenchanted/unimproved weapons, werewolf claws are much better, however, that Daedric sword for me is sub-par. If I equip the maximum of 4 pieces of 40% damage boost to One Handed damage armor(takes 100 enchanting, which I have, along with a grand soul, easy to get with Azura's Black Star), and also improve my sword to legendary with the heavy armor perk side of smithing and level 100 smithing, that Daedric sword is boosted to a wopping 245 damage. Making the werewolf claws egregiously obsolete. Meaning, at level 53, not a far cry from 45, werewolf attack rating is under powered, without regular weapons even being enchanted.
Now, testing the armor was a bit dicey. But I came up with a plan, first I equipped my best armor, got my rating to 1125. Then use the console command player.getavinfo DamageResist, and the output was 1125, spot on. So I turned into a werewolf and did the same. The output was 288. With that I was able to test the Light Armor perk by removing all 5 of my ranks, making the armor value to theoretically be no longer twice as high, meaning a rating of 144. So I repeated the test and sure enough, the output was 144, so that perk DOES count. And if we take my 90 light armor levels and multiply them by 0.4, we get 36, or 36% boost to light armor. So if we divide 144 by 1.36, we arrive at around 105.88. Now after I used player.setav lightarmor 0, and then redid the player.getavinfo DamageResist, it gave me a current value of 106, spot on again. So now that I know that that claim is true I can get the values for maxed Light armor. To do no math I simply used player.setav light armor 100, to set it to level 100, then did the armor test again and arrived at 148 maxed with no perks. Now if I re-add the perks my armor rating should be 296, right? Well, I added them back, and tested again, and I was right. So the ABSOLUTE maximum defense of a werewolf is 296. Now that got me thinking of a way to test the damage, so I used the command player.getavinfo UnarmedDamage. The results were saddening. The out put was 80, base was 20, level boost was 60..sound familiar? 20 + 60 = 80. What was sad was if it was in fact affected by one handed it would have been 118, right? Or if also affected by my rank 4 Armsman it would have been 214.4, right? Well it was neither. Meaning that the claw attacks simply RAISE One Handed skill experience, but it does not benefit from it.

So with that werewolf armor rating of 288 at my level, how does that compare to the up to my level armor such as full Dragonscale unenchanted/unimproved? Not well. With the perks I have and skill level, my total defense with Dragonscale armor/boots/gloves/helmet came to 140 + 43 + 43 + 60 = 286. Honestly that number made me laugh when I saw it. So this means that if I have full unenchanted/unimproved Dragonscale, and go into werewolf form I am gaining 2 armor rating(woopie) and 43 damage from my Daedric sword, bundled with a weakness to silver weapons, no magic resistance aside from any racial traits. But of course, that's if I had only base weaponry and armor, and even then it isn't much of a boost. And in my opinion, 288 defense and 80 damage do not compare to 1125 defense and 245 damage.

Now after compiling all this data, I can see why some people think it is overpowered. Well it is, at low levels, where the enemies are low level as well. At mid levels it would be basically just a special skin change power with a knock out punch. And at 45+ levels, it is worthless.

It is for those reasons I believe that werewolf needs a scaling buff."</pre></dl></dl></dl>
::That's just about it.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 02:07, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

:::Really good research. I think a simple-ish fix would simply be to prevent armor/weapons from being unequipped (any way to hide the actual sword model?) That would automatically fix many of the scaling problems. [[User:Jimhsu|Jimhsu]] 04:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I've attempted the same process you did, and the MAX attack for a werewolf is indeed 80. However, when I tested out my light armor skill/perks effect on my armor rating as a werewolf it did not result the same. I equipped full dragonscale (no shield), used console to add all the light armor perks and set my light armor skill to 100. I transformed into a werewolf and, using the player.getavinfo damageresist command, the output showed 0. In non werewolf form it was 348 (as it should be). So I am unsure how your tests led you to have an armor rating of 288 in werewolf form, unless your "best armor" was enchanted. Help me understand what went wrong. [[User:Jakndax|Jakndax]] 17:26, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

::In all honesty, I'm not too sure, it could be because you updated your game. Ever since the update I've been hearing that same statement. "The output was 0". It could be possible that along with the Magic Resistances, they botched the damage resistance for werewolf as-well. So, I shall retest that aspect of my results once more.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 19:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

== Ring of Hircine ==

I just got the ring of Hircine, uncursed, and I cant figure out how to use it. Is there something special I have to do to activate it? Or, when it says additional transformations, does that imply that you have to be a werewolf already, and the ring just enhances it?

The "Beast Form" is added under "powers", although you deploy it as you would a Shout. For the 360 (in my case) you equip the Beast Form power, then press RB and voila, your a werewolf.
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 02:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

So, to be clear, you don't need to be transformed into a werewolf by the Circle, the ring works without it?
: That's the general idea. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

actually the ring only works if you have become a werewolf (in human form) but if you are completely human or a vampire, then it does not work. [[Special:Contributions/86.179.19.85|86.179.19.85]] 13:44, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

:You need to be a werewolf already. However, it adds an alternative power for transforming into a werewolf, so you can do it at least twice a day, unlike the regular Beast Form which is once a day like any other power. So basically you can transform more often per day, otherwise it's pretty useless, especially when once a day is usually more than enough already. [[User:Haravikk|Haravikk]] 18:12, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

== Curing Werewolfism / witch head bug? ==

Is anybody else experiencing a bug during which you cannot cure your werewolf condition? I completed the optional objective (Which I'm learning is a pain in the tush most times) during the quest when you cure Kodlak of his condition, and completely wiped out all 5 of the witches. I went back (with four extra witch's heads) to cure my werewolfism, but nothing happens when I activate the blue flame. And also, I found out, that the four extra heads (4 pounds each = 16 pounds) are quest items and therefore undropable.

And since I'm on the 360, there's no way of me consoling my way out of this. Anybody have a clue as to how I should go about curing my werewolfism, and hence ridding myself of these burdensome... heads? A Well nights rest would sure be great right about now
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 03:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey man, i had the same bug on PC. I did some quests and sold all but one witchhead to someone (don't know, why the "thats a quest item, can't sell!" didn't pop up). With only one Witchhead it worked for me.

::I am pretty sure once you finish the main quest line for the Companions guild, the witch heads are no longer counted as quest items. After completing all Companion quests, I was ablee to throw the rest of my witch heads into storage containers in my house. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 06:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC))

I've got the same bug. A few things i've learned: 
- pulling all companions to the cave one by one to stand right next to flame (in case those heads are somehow assigned to people) - doesn't work. 
- number of whitchheads in your inventory does not matter - flame won't activate. 
- whitchhead becomes a quest item if i drop it and then pick up agan. Then it's impossible to drop it. If i travel around for a bit (one door between maps should be enough), i can drop it again. 
- removing Beast form spell with a console will not cure you. 
So i've got a bit of a headache with this 'curing lycanthropy' thing.. perhaps, if nothing else, somebody have any idea how to cure it properly through console? [[User:RuncZ|RuncZ]] 22:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

: Theres a console code on the main page, along with a solution. Turns out, you must cure Vilkas and Farkas before you can cure yourself. Until you cure them two, the heads are quest items.
::Wonderful.. exactly what i need. Thanks :) [[User:RuncZ|RuncZ]] 23:09, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

It seems like they are only quest items ''after'' you pick them up, after completing the quest in which you cure Kodlak. Meaning, you must cure Kodlak, then pick up a witch head. If your carrying extra witchheads when you finish the Kodlak-cure quest, they are not quest items. They must be dropped first, then picked up again. It's the picking up after the quest completion that signifies them as quest items. Hope you can understand and follow that. [[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 00:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== THE BEST WEREWOLF? ==

ok, i saw the werewolf thing and i was exited (much better than vampirism in oblivion..!)but i saw the dissadvantages and i was a bit dissapointed...i have to ask some things just to be sure.
1: if u r a werewolf u cant gain your health at all even as a human when u r sleeping or waiting or just in werewolf form?
2: whats better to be a werewolf from the cicle or with the ring?r they any differencies at all?

:1: Health regeneration etc. is not affected in human shape. Beast form is it's own seperate body with a health meter that refills by eating your victims rather than automatically. Eating victims also seems to extend the Beast form duration.
:2: I don't have the ring, but I'd assume the difference is that when you are NOT a werewolf and simply use the ring to transform into a beast when you feel like it, you still get the resting bonuses. On the other hand, when stripped of all items - which can happen in Quests - the Beast form comes in very handy but your ring will be where all your other stuff is.
:Generally: There really are no 'big' disadvantages to having a lycantrophe blood as the resting bonus is negligable - other than having to backtrack through dungeons to pick up any wanted items after reverting back to human shape. However, it's usefulness is limited to humanoid enemies with poor magic skills. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== About Silver ==

Once you gain the Beast Form power, do silver weapons cause increased damage at all times, or is it only when you're in beast form?
: Haven't noticed any increased damage from silver weapons, where would it say they do? --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
: It's kind of assumed that everyone knows that... and they even inform you during the Blood Circle quest. And to answer the question above, you are only weak to silver while in Beast Form.
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 23:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Followers? ==

Has anyone transformed in front of a follower? How did they react?[[Special:Contributions/96.244.144.7|96.244.144.7]] 06:17, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I have transformed in front of delphine, esbern and they did not react with acceptance of my lycanthropy, esbern summonesd his frost atronach and all three of them attacked me {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 09:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::I transformed in the middle of Breezehome. Lydia didn't give a damn. --[[Special:Contributions/86.142.76.58|86.142.76.58]] 10:33, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I have Faendal around all the time, he seems to know that its me and does not attack me although I do not have access to the wait function for some reason as the game proably thinks that Faendal is an enemy or that everyone is considered an enemy in beast form but some comapnions are aware of your true identiy and choose not to attack. The only way he seems to attack is if I use the Werewolf`s growl power (R2 or RB on consoles) then it says that my follower has left my service and Faendal runs away from me in fear only to return deeming me a threat and trying to kill me.--[[Special:Contributions/90.199.32.254|90.199.32.254]] 16:30, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::::Derkeethus doesn't care if you transform in front of him either.

== Force return to human form? ==

Is there a way to force end the beast form and return to human form, or do you simply have to wait out the timer?

: Wait it out, simplest way is the in-game wait feature, wait for an hour. You will be shown as a werewolf after it but revert to human within seconds. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 09:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

== Beast Form Problems ==

I've had a few problems when playing as a werewolf on the XBox 360

1. When I become a werewolf I still have the sheath for my sword and sometimes a sword in my hand (paw/claw)

2. Instead of not being able to loot and being able to feed on corpses, instead I can loot corpses but not feed on them (all in beast form).

Just wondering if anyone else had these problems or even a way to fix them?

-jake11996-

I've have had the first problem a few times on pc, however it isn't consistent in occurrence, seems to
happen at random. The second I've never encountered though.

::Ive encountered the bug with my sword still being in my hand when ive turned but it doesnt seem to affect gameplay expect for looking slightly odd. Ive noticed that by unequiping all weapons before you use beast form solves the issue if your that concerned about it. I have never encountered the second glitch but im sure it will fix itself as is the way with these bugs.--[[Special:Contributions/90.199.32.183|90.199.32.183]] 20:06, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

:::The weapon in hand bug is a glitch in the game engine where Bethesda didn't code it to unequip secondary weapons. Funny thing is, enchantments and damage from the weapon still apply. This glitch usually occurs if you have a sword and shield equipped, then switch to a bow, and transform while the bow is equipped. Two avoid this, just switch to sword and shield before transforming. [[Special:Contributions/121.98.207.151|121.98.207.151]] 01:30, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

== wtf? ==

warewolves have terrible night vision i keep losing the silver hand quest because it's so dark i cant hit my enemies
::Werewolves in skyrim dont have night vision by default, just lure them to an area that does have light or dont fight them in your beast form since most of the sliver hand have sliver weapons which deal extra damage to werewolves.

==Disease==

Should lycanthropy be classified as a disease ? It is similar to vampirism in ways [disease] and can be cured like a disease.

No i thought the same but i realized it shouldnt in bloodmoon it could be classified as a disease because you could catch it on random encouters with werewolfs but even if you fought a werewolf on skyrim you couldnt catch its a more of a power than a disease. [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 23:41, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Beast Blood ID ==

What is the console id for Beast Blood? I've tried the "help" command but I can't find it. [[User:Starbucksisevil|Starbucksisevil]] 19:20, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
: The Spell ID for Beast Blood is 000f5ba0, as I put on the [[Skyrim:Powers|Powers]] page, under [[Skyrim:Abilities|Abilities]]. The ID wasn't easy to find.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 02:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much. [[User:Starbucksisevil|Starbucksisevil]] 20:01, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Something weird is going on with my character. I am a werewolf, but somehow while playing through the game I have lost my beast blood perk/effect. I typed in player.addspell 000f5ba0, and the game says "resist disease added", but under the active effects tab there is no "resist disease". Also, when I sleep, it always tells me I awake feeling well rested and I get the well rested bonus and I am still able to contract other diseases. If I try to add the same spell again, it says resist disease has not been added. So the game thinks I have the ability already, but in reality, I don't. This glitch is also kind of fun because I can be both a vampire and werewolf at the same time. However, it seems to break the "feed" option as a vampire, so if you become a vampire you will be doomed to stage 4. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 05:24, 9 December 2011 (UTC))

:The most likely reason as to why that is, is because you lost your beast blood ability, got Vampirism, which usurped the "No longer sleep well" effect of a werewolf. The feeding is probably because werewolves were coded to feed on dead people, which is usurping the Vampire ability to feed on live people, don't quote me, I am logically guesstimating. That's my two-cents.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 06:10, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

::That makes sense, thanks for the cents lol ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 08:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC))

== Disease immunity bug? ==

As a Werewolf I still managed to contract a disease, Rattles (from a Dwemer spinning blade trap if you were interested), despite the 100% disease resistance. Just thought I'd share.

::The Skyrim 1.2 [[SR:Patch|Patch]] causes all resistances, including disease, to become useless. I was wondering if this allows werewolves to become vampires? -[[User:13ryce|13ryce]]

:::This isn't specific to 1.2. My werewolf character contracted Rockjoint from a pendulum-blade trap in 1.1. - ND

== Howl of Rage (Werewolf Fear Spell) ==

Is the roar/power/shout affected at all by any of the illusion perks that deal with fear and such?
A lot of perks that people say do not affect the werewolf do seem to.
As a sneak character i have the perk that makes me able to walk over pressure plates without setting them off, and this seems to carry over into werewolf form.

But the big question for me is whether or not the illusion perks that raise the level of fear spells or spells vs humanoids, or makes illusion effects usable on daedra and such function to improve the effects of the werewolf howl. I play on the 360 so I can't check this easily... would anyone with a PC please use the console command to add the illusion perks and test if they affect the werewolf in any way? Please and thank you :)

:are you sure it's howl of rage? is it a different one than the default one? because i have the default scent of blood roar from before the totem quest and it doesn't work on everyone even with all the perks

== Still no fix for the "Days as Werewolf" bug? ==

Is there still no way to convince the game you are cured? It's minor but the fact I have 80+ days as werewolf despite being cured at the soonest opputunity is bothersome. If anyone knows of something email me at - tehsorrow@gmail.com

Currently to my known knowledge there isnt but there will most likley be a patch that may fix this problem [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 05:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

You can use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command: ''set PlayerIsWerewolf to 0'' This should stop the "Days as Werewolf" from counting on (works for me), but make sure you have done everything else for the cure before! --[[User:Psychomc|Psychomc]] 23:15, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

== weird glitch. ==

I've been a werewolf before but now when i press the button it doesn't load the animation and i stay human. after which i can use normal attackes but i cant open my menu, im on the Vanilla version of the game with no patches and on xbox, does anyone know why this is. [[Special:Contributions/208.54.85.171|208.54.85.171]]

== Female model of werewolves? ==

My character is a female and when she transforms, she transforms into the same male model of werewolf. Does anyone consider this a bug? (It's obvious when you look at the chest of the werewolf, it's definitely masculine chest muscle even if your werewolf should definitely have breasts. Not the kind of human breasts but breasts of beasts, should be distinguishable.) --[[Special:Contributions/223.18.170.179|223.18.170.179]] 10:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
:Probably not, because if you look at Aela in werewolf form it's the same model. I could see Bethesda releasing a female werewolf model later on, but it's not part of the current game. [[User:Gideon Dragontongue|Gideon Dragontongue]] 03:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
::halp my real life is bugged my dog she doens't have boobs plz ficx
::: I don't think it's a bug. The werewolf model doesn't display 'male' characteristics either (no conveniently-placed tuft to cover up what should be there, etc), and lore-wise they Hircine's hounds, created for the sole purpose of the hunt, so I doubt that they're meant to be sexual creatures or display sexual traits (nor would they normally care about such things, being overwhelmed by bloodlust). - ND
::::I'm not 100% aware of the rules of the discussion pages (if mentioning other sites is allowed), but I do know the popular Skyrim modding site "Skyrim Nexus" has a few mods in the making for female werewolves. I play a male character myself, but if you have the PC version of Skyrim you should definitely check that site for those types of things, or you could even make a mod request for your idea. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 05:55, 16 December 2011 (UTC))

Ive played a male and female werewolf in the game the only thing i see is a difference between them is the werewolf for the male is much bigger than the female. [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 06:13, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
:I would imagine they didn't create a different body for the female werewolf because they'd have to give her six nipples, if they were going to follow a canine body type. Kind of hard to take a werewolf seriously when she's wearing three bras. -- [[User:Wordmama|Wordmama]] 18:45, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

lol yeah bethsesda i dont think would care to make girl and boy "parts" for the werewolf there is no need for them on the werewolf anyway but just look for some mods that fixes the body[[User:J'Skar|J'Skar]] 18:52, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm the original poster here and I didn't have the account yet when I posted.
So I'm playing on my PS3, and no mods are possible.
What I mean is, look at the Argonians, lizards with breasts, just because they are humanoid. Look at the Kajits, catties with only one pair instead of three. So I'd imagine werewolves should at least show some feminine characteristics. And the lore says they're Hircine's hounds and only overwhelmed by violent. But I don't believe something could know violent if they don't know about sex. Besides, breasts are not for sex, they are for feeding children. I believe werewolves, that they appear as beasts, in their design, there should have genes that enable them to feed their small children, just that the spiritual transformation doesn't allow it, doesn't mean the target model shouldn't be equipped for this natural instinct. And for dogs having three pairs, it's more about the usual number of children a mother should have in a single pregnancy. For human, mothers usually give birth to one child for each pregnancy and for dogs, it'd be around three. So human have one pair while dogs have three pairs. I imagine if werewolves are to have children someway, they should be more like human than dogs, as they stand with two feet, and have only one pair of breasts. And for the problem of bras, I believe the fur of a werewolf is the best bra for the purpose of the game. They put the bra here just to avoid certain parts being seen by the player while they stripe the fallen. The bra shouldn't even be invented before machines being invented. --[[User:Joshua.yathin.yu|Joshua.yathin.yu]] 09:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

== Advantage to curing ==
I haven't started the companions questline yet and I was just wondering what the advantage or reason for curing lycanthropy is. From reading the page it seems like it is just a power you can use once a day so why would you want to cure it, or am I missing something?[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:32, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

The main and only disadvantage of lycanthropy is, that you cannot gain [[Skyrim:Sleeping|resting bonuses]]! So you have to ponder if 100% resistance to all diseases and once per day Power Beast Form equalize no resting bonuses... For me it was absolutly clear, cause i dont like "once per day" powers, and im argonian, so i already have 50% resistance and i want to use the +10% resting bonus. --[[User:Psychomc|Psychomc]] 23:26, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
:Ah, I see now. You probably also wouldn't be able to become a vampire either. I never sleep in the game so I think I'll leave the cure for now. Thanks for the help.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:13, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

== Werewolves in the Wild? ==

Can anyone tell me if there are any werewolves that are just random fights? cause I havent come across one yet and that sucks cause I really wanna fight one. I havent done the champions crap cause I dont want to. I'm a vampire that wants to kick some wolf ass! How hard is it to create a few werewolves on top of mountain areas?
:Sorry, there arn't any wild werewolves. The only way you can fight a werewolf is during [[Skyrim:Ill Met By Moonlight|Ill Met By Moonlight]].[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:22, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

::It is possible to occasionally find a live werewolf in the Silver Hand bases, although you normally only visit those during the Companions questline and doing so at other times may break that quest chain (among other things). It is also unlikely to provide much of a challenge since they're locked in cells or cages and can't attack you (although some of your attacks can strike them through the bars), and not particularly powerful as enemies even if you release them. - ND

== Vampire/Werewolf hybrid ==

Using the console to inflict yourself with Sanguinare Vampiris after becoming werewolf during the Companions questline makes it possible to be vampire and werewolf simultaneously. It is done by forcing the console with the "player.addspell 000b8780" command and it will eventually inflict you with the disease even though you are 100% resistant to diseases because of your beast blood.

However, upon tranforming into a werewolf (after becoming a vampire) and then reverting back to normal causes the vampiric facial changes and comments from NPCs about your pale skin and eyes full of hunger to disappear (eye color, pale skin, mouth-region, teeth). You will keep all vampire powers and effects, and you may transform into a werewolf as pleased (provided that you are in possession of the Ring of Hircine). Though, you will lose the ability to feed on ANY NPC, thus turning your soon-to-be Blood-Starved stage 4 vampirism permanent, as there is no way to return to stage 1 unless feeding. Transforming into a werewolf and feeding on killed victims will not substitute feeding as a vampire, and will not affect your stage of vampirism.

This makes a combination of vampire and werewolf tricky to play, as you will be attacked by all NPCs in the game, get a 100% weakness to fire, -100% magicka, health and stamina recovery, and you will not be able to get the well-rested bonus. Furthermore werewolves have a weakness to silver weapons, and are relatively weak in higher levels in regards of damage output, defense and magical resistance (see topic "Werewolf combat skill modifiers?"). Being affected by the +25% illusion spell efficiency and getting all the illusion perks may to some extend be helpful living a life as hybrid.

Keep in mind, you will only experience these changes if you transform into a werewolf after becoming a vampire. You will still be able to look like a vampire and feed like a vampire if you do not transform. If you choose to transform and later decide to check if the console can help you (by typing player.setrace (playerrace)racevampire) to feed again, then you might be disappointed. Even though it allows you to feed again, it will not return your vampiric facial changes and the action will lock ground/root you in your current spot, and you cannnot move nor spin the camera more than 180 degrees. Transforming into a werewolf in this state will only worsen the problem by restraining your camera view even further, and you will have to reload a previously saved game in order to fix it.

Mini-conclusion:
Playing a hybrid vampire/werewolf leaves the player in troubled waters, and will need too much time trying to fix the problems. This leaves out few options: Do not try to play as a hybrid - use the time on the good things in this game rather than cleaning up "your own mess". However, if you are a "Tamriel Veteran" you might get a good challenge beating master difficulty while living a life as vampire/werewolf hybrid.

If you want to play as a werewolf, then it is most beneficial at lower levels.

If you want to play as a vampire, then the advantages and disadvantages are best balanced by playing a spellcaster or a stealth character (or mixed). Playing a melee-based character can be difficult due to the high exposure of fire spells/fire enchantments (vampires have a weakness to fire, and fire damage is very common).

== No sleep bonuses ==

Shouldn't the fact you gain no sleeping bonuses from resting under disadvantages? [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 05:30, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

== Can't pick up stuff ==

It says on the page that you have no weight encumbrance although you can't pick up stuff; is this just as a wolf or in human form too?[[Special:Contributions/67.168.149.21|67.168.149.21]] 06:43, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

In human form, you can still become overencumbered in human form. Also, in human form, you can pick things up as normally. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 15:16, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Werewolf

2011-12-26T05:30:39Z

Roleplayer242621: /* No sleep bonuses */ new section

== True rumor? ==

Is this true? Where is the source?
--[[Special:Contributions/84.81.49.194|84.81.49.194]] 19:33, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
:It was confirmed about a week ago, mainly due to pirated content. I don't want to post any links to pirated content, just google "Skyrim werewolves leaked" and you should find plenty of info.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:03, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

::What about the denial from one of the main artists? The link on the Skyrim:Skyrim page? [[User:Dovahreid|Dovahreid]] 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:::You could just easily ask, what about about the Xbox World preview that stated "Skyrim is home to werewolves as well as vampires"? Because of the contradictory information, I removed that link on the main Skyrim page a few days ago; I don't think any information can be definitively confirmed or denied until the game is released. In the meantime, every page on the site has a big banner at the top saying that '''This article is based only upon Skyrim previews''' and that everything in the article is subject to change. Debating the details when we don't have all the information isn't going to accomplish anything. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 14:16, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

== Wearing silver armors and weapons ==

Does wearing silver armors and weapons hurt yourself? -[[User:Kote|Kote]] 17:41, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

No it doesn't [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 04:55, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

== Werebears? ==

In Daggerfall there was a book that said that in Skyrim, werebears are the most common type of lycanthrope. Does anyone think this will still be the case?[[User:Garan|Garan]] 05:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

First. Remember to sign your posts. Second "Lycanthrope only applies to wolves. Lycan is derived from greek lykánthrōpos lýkos meaning wolf and ánthrōpos man. (unclear as to where that is a translation in to the Old English "man" or the Middle English "man" which mean two different things.) Now a Werebear would more accurately be called an arktoanthrope. [[Special:Contributions/98.74.159.102|98.74.159.102]] 15:15, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know how to sign my posts, and that has been rectified. Secondly, I am aware of the distinctions. What the book, [[Daggerfall:On Lycanthropy|On Lycanthropy]] said, however, was: "As I mentioned before, the werebear is the most common lycanthrope in Skyrim". The book does briefly mention that there is a distinction, but it dismisses it as semantics.[[User:Garan|Garan]] 05:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

== I'm gonna give this a go ==

:::I'm not good at the formatting or anything but i'll put the information up because I got the guide and want to help. --[[User:SGG Caboose|SGG Caboose]] 20:49, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

== werewolve cam ==

ive just recently turnd and now the camra seems a lil messed up when i dont have my weppon out the cam is up close to my character insted of being able to see my hole body i can only see the top half not sure if this is a glitch or any thing all so playing on the 360 version[[User:Sorrow|The sorrow]] 12:48, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

:Are you meaning when you revert to normal form? If so, when you turn the camera does it only move the camera but not your character? If that is happening then fear not, its normal. Just hold in the right stick and push down on the left stick like you want to move backwards. It will shift the camera focus away from your character and back to normal. If your meaning in beast form, then as far as I know its normal to show only half, but dunno how you got weapons out in that form.--[[User:Dro'Bakha|Dro'Bakha]] 12:55, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

::ah thanks dident relise bout the camra zoom lol [[User:Sorrow|The sorrow]] 13:12, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Im getting an error saying I cant edit this page. I just wanted to add two tidbits maybe someone else can do it: even outside werewolf form, having the wolf-blood changes two things. Your character gains 100% resistance to disease (which prevents Vampirism), and he can no longer gain Rested XP for sleeping in a bed. The latter tidbit appears in loading scene info after the first change.

== Transformation bug? ==

My Nord completed the Blood Ritual but everytime I return to "myself" I become a Dunmer. Has anyone else had this trouble? [[User:Patterson|Patterson]] 05:04, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
you shure it isnt just the lighting?

'''The transformation code seems to be bugged.''' If you have used SetPlayerRace or ShowRaceMenu to change your character race from the start of the game, the code seems to revert you back to the original race choice you made at the start of the game. Possibly a variable in the script that wasn't updated somewhere. Possibly easily fixed by adding a check to update the race variable upon casting of Beast Form. [[User:Jimhsu|Jimhsu]] 22:24, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Urgent help!!!!! ==

im on the silverhand quest, to do with becomming a werewolf, and i have just woken from having fainted a second time. the huntswoman (forgotton her name) tells me i have to go and kill the silver hands. i dont want to do this however. so i fast travel to a town and she is still following me. i realise that she will continue to follow me until i complete the quest. what i want to know is, is there any way i can quit this quest? (my last save was after my awakoning from the second faint)

any help on this would be greatly appriciated as i cant continue until i quit this quest. thank you. [[User:Kate the great|Kate the great]] 16:34, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
: You don't have to ask the same question in two different places. As a general rule, SAVE your game before starting quests, especially two days after release - other than that, see my response [[Skyrim_talk:The_Silver_Hand|here]]. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:00, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

kill her. i doubt she's essential then. [[User:Zach9054|Zach9054]] 19:05, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

== vampire cure ==

I while doing this quest, my character was cured of vampirism, is this a bug or has my time of being a creature of the night truly came to an end? {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 15:32, 14 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:Becoming a werewolf cures you of being a Vampire. Once you become a werewolf you can not become a Vampire through normal means, even if you cure yourself of the Beast Blood. [[User:Rayce Kaiser|Rayce Kaiser]] 13:09, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not true as I have just found out, while doing the quest "a daedra's best friend" I contracted sanguinare vampiris (please excuse my awful spelling) and three days later I got the "vampire powers" message and vampiric drain, servant and sight so unless this is a massive bug, our info and vampirism and lycanthropy is untrue, I play on the PS3 if that helps {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 21:11, 22 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:::I got cured of lycanthropy, acquired the vampire's disease, and then waited three days. I'm now a vampire. It seems to work just fine on PC, just make sure you wait a full 72 hours and then give it a minute. [[Special:Contributions/75.91.63.29|75.91.63.29]]

could be a bug as being a werewolf gives you 100% immunity to diseases, same with vampires although vampires can become werewolves if they drink their blood which both cures them and curses/blesses them with a new condition. i have fought vampires as a werewolf and have never contracted the disease, so i say bug, do you have both powers or are you now cured of lycanthropy and now a vampire? Mr Scryer [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 14:23, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:Cured of lycanthropy {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 20:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)}}

odd, according to the guide its impossible to be a vampire if you are a werewolf (due to the 100% immunity to disease) but you can become a werewolf if you are a vampire by doing the companions quest line [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 20:56, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

if you guys fully read the previous posts, you would see that they re-contracted vampirism AFTER THE CURED THEIR LYCANTHROPY no one said they have both --[[Special:Contributions/99.232.209.22|99.232.209.22]] 00:10, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Apologies for that, i was aware of the earlier post (that they got cured) but i had mistakenly believed the poster after was saying they were both werewolf and vampire but now i now what the poster meant, still a bug i think as i hear the cure for lycanthropy makes the player immune to disease, i know you can become a vampire again if you are cured of vampirism by doing the vampire cure quest.[[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 21:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Guys I need help, I saw some references to glitches with this. I was a werewolf for 42 days then I did a quest for one of the daedra...the guy with the masque...can't think of his name right now. Anyway was fighting vampires without a care fully knowing i was immune. 3 days later I find myself having contracted vampirism. Now I have both powers. on my stats each day is added to both ( I'm now up to 45ish days werewolf and 3ish days vampire.) both are going up, both have the effects on ( except for the weaknesses of vampire and pwers...but i also have werewolf as well.) I still get the remarks about being a werewolf from guards, as well as vampire from people. I don't want to cue vampirism... it seems to be possible through a glitch to contract vampirism after being a werewolf. A bit annoying during the day time really.--[[Special:Contributions/173.2.193.61|173.2.193.61]] 07:02, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

this is usually impossible and i will say its likely a glitch but someone else needs to test it for confirmation as with 100% immunity, there is zero chance of infection. if what you saying is true then you shouldn't complain, as a hybrid with both powers you would be unique and to counter the harmful effects of daylight its best to active a stone that regenerates health and stamina, i can't remember what it is called. although i seriously doubt you can be both even by glitch, in morrowind, one could be both by putting on the ring of hircine as a vampire which while stacked powers up, it clearly had a buggy appearance. i think i will test this myself as i am a werewolf in one save file and current doing the " a daedra's best friend" quest[[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 14:38, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

just tested it and i have not contracted vampirism.[[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 15:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I was able to become both a werewolf and a vampire (pc version) multiple times now. It is extremely annoying because it breaks an important mechanic (details at end of explanation). Here is how I do/did it. First, I became a werewolf by doing the companion quest line. Then I decided to mess with my character's looks by using the command showracemenu. After using showracemenu, I believe that's when I lost my werewolf ability to be 100% immune to disease. I didn't notice I had lost my immunity until I contracted sanguine vampiris from fighting a vampire (I can also contract vampirism by typing in the console command sanguine vampiris. To contract it via console command, you must spam the addspell xxx multiple times until you see the words "you have contracted sanguine vampiris. You also must have lost your immunity by changing race). After 3 days I became a fully fledged vampire. I was able to transform into a werewolf and had the looks, perks, and cons of being a vampire. Now, the biggest problem with this was that I could no longer feed on sleeping NPCs as a vampire, which meant I got stuck as a stage 4 vampire. That alone was a deal breaker for me, so I loaded an earlier save. I have been able to become a vampire AND werewolf many, many times, but only for fun and I always revert to an earlier save because of said broken mechanic. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 08:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC))

then so far that is a pc problem, i have it on the 360 and never encountered that glitch, the weirdest thing that has ever happened to me was being a human that included vampires was getting attacked dozens of times by a master volkihar vampire and never catching vampirism, i was not immune to diseases at all though. anyway at least your hybrid glitch didn't give your werewolf a vampire head when you was in beast form. [[User:Mr.Scryer.|Mr.Scryer.]] 14:44, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== Bloodlust Meter ==
Where does the bloodlust meter appear for werewolves? I've already finished the related questline, and transformed numerous times, but I don't seem to have this meter.. [[Special:Contributions/108.75.41.108|108.75.41.108]] 21:40, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I read somewhere that they will be fixing this issue in the upcoming 1.2 patch, scheduled to be released about a week after Thanksgiving. I also do not (and never had) the bloodlust meter, which made it rather difficult to tell how much more time I had until I would revert back into my normal race. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 06:15, 27 November 2011 (UTC))

Unlike Oblivion, Skyrim lacks meters of any kind. You can't even tell how much breath you have left when swimming underwater. There are signs, however. If your vision starts to flash while in beast form, you're about to turn back. If you start losing health while underwater, get to fresh air...fast! --[[Special:Contributions/72.177.165.50|72.177.165.50]] 17:59, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

== Werewolf combat skill modifiers? ==
Do skill levels affect the damage amount for attacks, or the amount of damage you can absorb while in Beast Form? The Beast Form seems to be quite weak in my case - my character is strong in Stealth and Archery and usually uses Light Armour, unsure if raising other skills would benefit Beast Form? {{FC|purple|[[User:whalerid3r|whalerid3r]] 16:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)}}
:When transformed, your Health is increased, but you lose all armor. The werewolf seems to have an amount of base armor, but I don't know if the armor levels with you or not. [[User:Rayce Kaiser|Rayce Kaiser]] 13:11, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
::Through about an hour of research and testing, I have determined two things to be true. And one of the notes on the page to be false, specifically, the note that states that werewolf claw attacks are affected by one handed skill level and perks, including dual wielding. The two true things are werewolf armor rating IS affected by Light Armor skill level and the five ranks for the perk "Agile Defender". I have also determined the MAX attack and defense ratings werewolf. All of this I supply in a quote from a post I made in the Bethesda Skyrim forum earlier, complete with statistics and mathematical data, and steps to arrive at the same conclusions as I did.
<dl><dl><dl><pre style="
white-space: -moz-pre-wrap;
white-space: -pre-wrap;
white-space: -o-pre-wrap;
white-space: pre-wrap;
word-wrap: break-word;
">"After a little research of how the werewolf works in Skyrim I have found multiple, consistant claims. These are that werewolf armor rating is affected by Light Armor skill level and perks, and that the attack damage rating is affected by One Handed skill level and perks. Thirdly, I can confirm that at level 45+, the werewolf claw attack is a base of 20 plus 60, making it 80 at base value at level 45 and up.
I went and tested these claims as best as I could.

Alright, so my Current level in Light Armor is 90, and I know from UESP.net 's skill pages, every level of Light Armor increases the rating by 0.4%. And my One Handed is level 95, and I also know from UESP.net 's skill pages that every level of One Handed increases the rating by 0.5%. The supposed Light Armor skill that affect the werewolf is the first perk on the light armor tree, which I have ranked at 5. And the supposed One Handed skills that affect the werewolf are Armsman which I have ranked at 4, Dual Flurry which I have at rank 0, and Dual Savagery which I also have at rank 0. The first test I conducted was where I used the console to add Dual Flurry and Dual Savagery to see the effect on weapon speed increase with unenchanted/unimproved Daedric swords, and then the increase on werewolf claw speed. After doing one test, with the swords, their speed SIGNIFICANTLY increased, where the claw speed did not increase at all, noticeably so. Meaning those two perks mean nothing to a werewolf. So, with Armsman at level 4, the test for werewolf was easy, I simply used the console to remove my perk points in Armsman to test the damage difference with or without them on an Ice Troll set to not aggro with the console, and counted how many normal attacks to kill. After testing with and without the perk, it took the same number of hits to kill the Ice Troll in both scenarios. This means Armsman does not affect werewolf. Now that we eliminated the damage perks and are down to simply the skill increase of 0.5% per level, I can calculate the damage of a werewolf claw attack compared to a Daedric sword boosted by the perks and skill level.
Here is the math.
Werewolf: 20(base) + 60(45+ scaled) = 80
With the level increase: 80 + (80 * ((95 * 0.5) / 100)) = 80 + (80 * (47.5 / 100)) = 80 + (80 * 0.475) = 80 + 38 = 118
So my claw attacks do 118 adjusted damage.
Daedric Swords: 14 base
With level increase: 14 + (14 * 0.475) = 14 + 6.65 = 20.65
With perk bonus of 80%: 20.65 * 1.8 = 37.17
After this math I checked what a newly smithed Daedric sword would do and it was 37, so my calculation is spot on.

So with unenchanted/unimproved weapons, werewolf claws are much better, however, that Daedric sword for me is sub-par. If I equip the maximum of 4 pieces of 40% damage boost to One Handed damage armor(takes 100 enchanting, which I have, along with a grand soul, easy to get with Azura's Black Star), and also improve my sword to legendary with the heavy armor perk side of smithing and level 100 smithing, that Daedric sword is boosted to a wopping 245 damage. Making the werewolf claws egregiously obsolete. Meaning, at level 53, not a far cry from 45, werewolf attack rating is under powered, without regular weapons even being enchanted.
Now, testing the armor was a bit dicey. But I came up with a plan, first I equipped my best armor, got my rating to 1125. Then use the console command player.getavinfo DamageResist, and the output was 1125, spot on. So I turned into a werewolf and did the same. The output was 288. With that I was able to test the Light Armor perk by removing all 5 of my ranks, making the armor value to theoretically be no longer twice as high, meaning a rating of 144. So I repeated the test and sure enough, the output was 144, so that perk DOES count. And if we take my 90 light armor levels and multiply them by 0.4, we get 36, or 36% boost to light armor. So if we divide 144 by 1.36, we arrive at around 105.88. Now after I used player.setav lightarmor 0, and then redid the player.getavinfo DamageResist, it gave me a current value of 106, spot on again. So now that I know that that claim is true I can get the values for maxed Light armor. To do no math I simply used player.setav light armor 100, to set it to level 100, then did the armor test again and arrived at 148 maxed with no perks. Now if I re-add the perks my armor rating should be 296, right? Well, I added them back, and tested again, and I was right. So the ABSOLUTE maximum defense of a werewolf is 296. Now that got me thinking of a way to test the damage, so I used the command player.getavinfo UnarmedDamage. The results were saddening. The out put was 80, base was 20, level boost was 60..sound familiar? 20 + 60 = 80. What was sad was if it was in fact affected by one handed it would have been 118, right? Or if also affected by my rank 4 Armsman it would have been 214.4, right? Well it was neither. Meaning that the claw attacks simply RAISE One Handed skill experience, but it does not benefit from it.

So with that werewolf armor rating of 288 at my level, how does that compare to the up to my level armor such as full Dragonscale unenchanted/unimproved? Not well. With the perks I have and skill level, my total defense with Dragonscale armor/boots/gloves/helmet came to 140 + 43 + 43 + 60 = 286. Honestly that number made me laugh when I saw it. So this means that if I have full unenchanted/unimproved Dragonscale, and go into werewolf form I am gaining 2 armor rating(woopie) and 43 damage from my Daedric sword, bundled with a weakness to silver weapons, no magic resistance aside from any racial traits. But of course, that's if I had only base weaponry and armor, and even then it isn't much of a boost. And in my opinion, 288 defense and 80 damage do not compare to 1125 defense and 245 damage.

Now after compiling all this data, I can see why some people think it is overpowered. Well it is, at low levels, where the enemies are low level as well. At mid levels it would be basically just a special skin change power with a knock out punch. And at 45+ levels, it is worthless.

It is for those reasons I believe that werewolf needs a scaling buff."</pre></dl></dl></dl>
::That's just about it.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 02:07, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

:::Really good research. I think a simple-ish fix would simply be to prevent armor/weapons from being unequipped (any way to hide the actual sword model?) That would automatically fix many of the scaling problems. [[User:Jimhsu|Jimhsu]] 04:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I've attempted the same process you did, and the MAX attack for a werewolf is indeed 80. However, when I tested out my light armor skill/perks effect on my armor rating as a werewolf it did not result the same. I equipped full dragonscale (no shield), used console to add all the light armor perks and set my light armor skill to 100. I transformed into a werewolf and, using the player.getavinfo damageresist command, the output showed 0. In non werewolf form it was 348 (as it should be). So I am unsure how your tests led you to have an armor rating of 288 in werewolf form, unless your "best armor" was enchanted. Help me understand what went wrong. [[User:Jakndax|Jakndax]] 17:26, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

::In all honesty, I'm not too sure, it could be because you updated your game. Ever since the update I've been hearing that same statement. "The output was 0". It could be possible that along with the Magic Resistances, they botched the damage resistance for werewolf as-well. So, I shall retest that aspect of my results once more.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 19:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

== Ring of Hircine ==

I just got the ring of Hircine, uncursed, and I cant figure out how to use it. Is there something special I have to do to activate it? Or, when it says additional transformations, does that imply that you have to be a werewolf already, and the ring just enhances it?

The "Beast Form" is added under "powers", although you deploy it as you would a Shout. For the 360 (in my case) you equip the Beast Form power, then press RB and voila, your a werewolf.
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 02:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

So, to be clear, you don't need to be transformed into a werewolf by the Circle, the ring works without it?
: That's the general idea. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

actually the ring only works if you have become a werewolf (in human form) but if you are completely human or a vampire, then it does not work. [[Special:Contributions/86.179.19.85|86.179.19.85]] 13:44, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

:You need to be a werewolf already. However, it adds an alternative power for transforming into a werewolf, so you can do it at least twice a day, unlike the regular Beast Form which is once a day like any other power. So basically you can transform more often per day, otherwise it's pretty useless, especially when once a day is usually more than enough already. [[User:Haravikk|Haravikk]] 18:12, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

== Curing Werewolfism / witch head bug? ==

Is anybody else experiencing a bug during which you cannot cure your werewolf condition? I completed the optional objective (Which I'm learning is a pain in the tush most times) during the quest when you cure Kodlak of his condition, and completely wiped out all 5 of the witches. I went back (with four extra witch's heads) to cure my werewolfism, but nothing happens when I activate the blue flame. And also, I found out, that the four extra heads (4 pounds each = 16 pounds) are quest items and therefore undropable.

And since I'm on the 360, there's no way of me consoling my way out of this. Anybody have a clue as to how I should go about curing my werewolfism, and hence ridding myself of these burdensome... heads? A Well nights rest would sure be great right about now
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 03:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey man, i had the same bug on PC. I did some quests and sold all but one witchhead to someone (don't know, why the "thats a quest item, can't sell!" didn't pop up). With only one Witchhead it worked for me.

::I am pretty sure once you finish the main quest line for the Companions guild, the witch heads are no longer counted as quest items. After completing all Companion quests, I was ablee to throw the rest of my witch heads into storage containers in my house. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 06:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC))

I've got the same bug. A few things i've learned: 
- pulling all companions to the cave one by one to stand right next to flame (in case those heads are somehow assigned to people) - doesn't work. 
- number of whitchheads in your inventory does not matter - flame won't activate. 
- whitchhead becomes a quest item if i drop it and then pick up agan. Then it's impossible to drop it. If i travel around for a bit (one door between maps should be enough), i can drop it again. 
- removing Beast form spell with a console will not cure you. 
So i've got a bit of a headache with this 'curing lycanthropy' thing.. perhaps, if nothing else, somebody have any idea how to cure it properly through console? [[User:RuncZ|RuncZ]] 22:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

: Theres a console code on the main page, along with a solution. Turns out, you must cure Vilkas and Farkas before you can cure yourself. Until you cure them two, the heads are quest items.
::Wonderful.. exactly what i need. Thanks :) [[User:RuncZ|RuncZ]] 23:09, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

It seems like they are only quest items ''after'' you pick them up, after completing the quest in which you cure Kodlak. Meaning, you must cure Kodlak, then pick up a witch head. If your carrying extra witchheads when you finish the Kodlak-cure quest, they are not quest items. They must be dropped first, then picked up again. It's the picking up after the quest completion that signifies them as quest items. Hope you can understand and follow that. [[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 00:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== THE BEST WEREWOLF? ==

ok, i saw the werewolf thing and i was exited (much better than vampirism in oblivion..!)but i saw the dissadvantages and i was a bit dissapointed...i have to ask some things just to be sure.
1: if u r a werewolf u cant gain your health at all even as a human when u r sleeping or waiting or just in werewolf form?
2: whats better to be a werewolf from the cicle or with the ring?r they any differencies at all?

:1: Health regeneration etc. is not affected in human shape. Beast form is it's own seperate body with a health meter that refills by eating your victims rather than automatically. Eating victims also seems to extend the Beast form duration.
:2: I don't have the ring, but I'd assume the difference is that when you are NOT a werewolf and simply use the ring to transform into a beast when you feel like it, you still get the resting bonuses. On the other hand, when stripped of all items - which can happen in Quests - the Beast form comes in very handy but your ring will be where all your other stuff is.
:Generally: There really are no 'big' disadvantages to having a lycantrophe blood as the resting bonus is negligable - other than having to backtrack through dungeons to pick up any wanted items after reverting back to human shape. However, it's usefulness is limited to humanoid enemies with poor magic skills. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== About Silver ==

Once you gain the Beast Form power, do silver weapons cause increased damage at all times, or is it only when you're in beast form?
: Haven't noticed any increased damage from silver weapons, where would it say they do? --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 22:46, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
: It's kind of assumed that everyone knows that... and they even inform you during the Blood Circle quest. And to answer the question above, you are only weak to silver while in Beast Form.
[[User:The Lost|The Lost]] 23:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Followers? ==

Has anyone transformed in front of a follower? How did they react?[[Special:Contributions/96.244.144.7|96.244.144.7]] 06:17, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I have transformed in front of delphine, esbern and they did not react with acceptance of my lycanthropy, esbern summonesd his frost atronach and all three of them attacked me {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 09:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::I transformed in the middle of Breezehome. Lydia didn't give a damn. --[[Special:Contributions/86.142.76.58|86.142.76.58]] 10:33, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I have Faendal around all the time, he seems to know that its me and does not attack me although I do not have access to the wait function for some reason as the game proably thinks that Faendal is an enemy or that everyone is considered an enemy in beast form but some comapnions are aware of your true identiy and choose not to attack. The only way he seems to attack is if I use the Werewolf`s growl power (R2 or RB on consoles) then it says that my follower has left my service and Faendal runs away from me in fear only to return deeming me a threat and trying to kill me.--[[Special:Contributions/90.199.32.254|90.199.32.254]] 16:30, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::::Derkeethus doesn't care if you transform in front of him either.

== Force return to human form? ==

Is there a way to force end the beast form and return to human form, or do you simply have to wait out the timer?

: Wait it out, simplest way is the in-game wait feature, wait for an hour. You will be shown as a werewolf after it but revert to human within seconds. --[[User:Elvaron|Elvaron]] 09:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

== Beast Form Problems ==

I've had a few problems when playing as a werewolf on the XBox 360

1. When I become a werewolf I still have the sheath for my sword and sometimes a sword in my hand (paw/claw)

2. Instead of not being able to loot and being able to feed on corpses, instead I can loot corpses but not feed on them (all in beast form).

Just wondering if anyone else had these problems or even a way to fix them?

-jake11996-

I've have had the first problem a few times on pc, however it isn't consistent in occurrence, seems to
happen at random. The second I've never encountered though.

::Ive encountered the bug with my sword still being in my hand when ive turned but it doesnt seem to affect gameplay expect for looking slightly odd. Ive noticed that by unequiping all weapons before you use beast form solves the issue if your that concerned about it. I have never encountered the second glitch but im sure it will fix itself as is the way with these bugs.--[[Special:Contributions/90.199.32.183|90.199.32.183]] 20:06, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

:::The weapon in hand bug is a glitch in the game engine where Bethesda didn't code it to unequip secondary weapons. Funny thing is, enchantments and damage from the weapon still apply. This glitch usually occurs if you have a sword and shield equipped, then switch to a bow, and transform while the bow is equipped. Two avoid this, just switch to sword and shield before transforming. [[Special:Contributions/121.98.207.151|121.98.207.151]] 01:30, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

== wtf? ==

warewolves have terrible night vision i keep losing the silver hand quest because it's so dark i cant hit my enemies
::Werewolves in skyrim dont have night vision by default, just lure them to an area that does have light or dont fight them in your beast form since most of the sliver hand have sliver weapons which deal extra damage to werewolves.

==Disease==

Should lycanthropy be classified as a disease ? It is similar to vampirism in ways [disease] and can be cured like a disease.

No i thought the same but i realized it shouldnt in bloodmoon it could be classified as a disease because you could catch it on random encouters with werewolfs but even if you fought a werewolf on skyrim you couldnt catch its a more of a power than a disease. [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 23:41, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Beast Blood ID ==

What is the console id for Beast Blood? I've tried the "help" command but I can't find it. [[User:Starbucksisevil|Starbucksisevil]] 19:20, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
: The Spell ID for Beast Blood is 000f5ba0, as I put on the [[Skyrim:Powers|Powers]] page, under [[Skyrim:Abilities|Abilities]]. The ID wasn't easy to find.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 02:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much. [[User:Starbucksisevil|Starbucksisevil]] 20:01, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Something weird is going on with my character. I am a werewolf, but somehow while playing through the game I have lost my beast blood perk/effect. I typed in player.addspell 000f5ba0, and the game says "resist disease added", but under the active effects tab there is no "resist disease". Also, when I sleep, it always tells me I awake feeling well rested and I get the well rested bonus and I am still able to contract other diseases. If I try to add the same spell again, it says resist disease has not been added. So the game thinks I have the ability already, but in reality, I don't. This glitch is also kind of fun because I can be both a vampire and werewolf at the same time. However, it seems to break the "feed" option as a vampire, so if you become a vampire you will be doomed to stage 4. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 05:24, 9 December 2011 (UTC))

:The most likely reason as to why that is, is because you lost your beast blood ability, got Vampirism, which usurped the "No longer sleep well" effect of a werewolf. The feeding is probably because werewolves were coded to feed on dead people, which is usurping the Vampire ability to feed on live people, don't quote me, I am logically guesstimating. That's my two-cents.--[[User:Flairtorc|Flairtorc]] 06:10, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

::That makes sense, thanks for the cents lol ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 08:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC))

== Disease immunity bug? ==

As a Werewolf I still managed to contract a disease, Rattles (from a Dwemer spinning blade trap if you were interested), despite the 100% disease resistance. Just thought I'd share.

::The Skyrim 1.2 [[SR:Patch|Patch]] causes all resistances, including disease, to become useless. I was wondering if this allows werewolves to become vampires? -[[User:13ryce|13ryce]]

:::This isn't specific to 1.2. My werewolf character contracted Rockjoint from a pendulum-blade trap in 1.1. - ND

== Howl of Rage (Werewolf Fear Spell) ==

Is the roar/power/shout affected at all by any of the illusion perks that deal with fear and such?
A lot of perks that people say do not affect the werewolf do seem to.
As a sneak character i have the perk that makes me able to walk over pressure plates without setting them off, and this seems to carry over into werewolf form.

But the big question for me is whether or not the illusion perks that raise the level of fear spells or spells vs humanoids, or makes illusion effects usable on daedra and such function to improve the effects of the werewolf howl. I play on the 360 so I can't check this easily... would anyone with a PC please use the console command to add the illusion perks and test if they affect the werewolf in any way? Please and thank you :)

:are you sure it's howl of rage? is it a different one than the default one? because i have the default scent of blood roar from before the totem quest and it doesn't work on everyone even with all the perks

== Still no fix for the "Days as Werewolf" bug? ==

Is there still no way to convince the game you are cured? It's minor but the fact I have 80+ days as werewolf despite being cured at the soonest opputunity is bothersome. If anyone knows of something email me at - tehsorrow@gmail.com

Currently to my known knowledge there isnt but there will most likley be a patch that may fix this problem [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 05:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

You can use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command: ''set PlayerIsWerewolf to 0'' This should stop the "Days as Werewolf" from counting on (works for me), but make sure you have done everything else for the cure before! --[[User:Psychomc|Psychomc]] 23:15, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

== weird glitch. ==

I've been a werewolf before but now when i press the button it doesn't load the animation and i stay human. after which i can use normal attackes but i cant open my menu, im on the Vanilla version of the game with no patches and on xbox, does anyone know why this is. [[Special:Contributions/208.54.85.171|208.54.85.171]]

== Female model of werewolves? ==

My character is a female and when she transforms, she transforms into the same male model of werewolf. Does anyone consider this a bug? (It's obvious when you look at the chest of the werewolf, it's definitely masculine chest muscle even if your werewolf should definitely have breasts. Not the kind of human breasts but breasts of beasts, should be distinguishable.) --[[Special:Contributions/223.18.170.179|223.18.170.179]] 10:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
:Probably not, because if you look at Aela in werewolf form it's the same model. I could see Bethesda releasing a female werewolf model later on, but it's not part of the current game. [[User:Gideon Dragontongue|Gideon Dragontongue]] 03:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
::halp my real life is bugged my dog she doens't have boobs plz ficx
::: I don't think it's a bug. The werewolf model doesn't display 'male' characteristics either (no conveniently-placed tuft to cover up what should be there, etc), and lore-wise they Hircine's hounds, created for the sole purpose of the hunt, so I doubt that they're meant to be sexual creatures or display sexual traits (nor would they normally care about such things, being overwhelmed by bloodlust). - ND
::::I'm not 100% aware of the rules of the discussion pages (if mentioning other sites is allowed), but I do know the popular Skyrim modding site "Skyrim Nexus" has a few mods in the making for female werewolves. I play a male character myself, but if you have the PC version of Skyrim you should definitely check that site for those types of things, or you could even make a mod request for your idea. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 05:55, 16 December 2011 (UTC))

Ive played a male and female werewolf in the game the only thing i see is a difference between them is the werewolf for the male is much bigger than the female. [[User:Skeepa|Skeepa]] 06:13, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
:I would imagine they didn't create a different body for the female werewolf because they'd have to give her six nipples, if they were going to follow a canine body type. Kind of hard to take a werewolf seriously when she's wearing three bras. -- [[User:Wordmama|Wordmama]] 18:45, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

lol yeah bethsesda i dont think would care to make girl and boy "parts" for the werewolf there is no need for them on the werewolf anyway but just look for some mods that fixes the body[[User:J'Skar|J'Skar]] 18:52, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm the original poster here and I didn't have the account yet when I posted.
So I'm playing on my PS3, and no mods are possible.
What I mean is, look at the Argonians, lizards with breasts, just because they are humanoid. Look at the Kajits, catties with only one pair instead of three. So I'd imagine werewolves should at least show some feminine characteristics. And the lore says they're Hircine's hounds and only overwhelmed by violent. But I don't believe something could know violent if they don't know about sex. Besides, breasts are not for sex, they are for feeding children. I believe werewolves, that they appear as beasts, in their design, there should have genes that enable them to feed their small children, just that the spiritual transformation doesn't allow it, doesn't mean the target model shouldn't be equipped for this natural instinct. And for dogs having three pairs, it's more about the usual number of children a mother should have in a single pregnancy. For human, mothers usually give birth to one child for each pregnancy and for dogs, it'd be around three. So human have one pair while dogs have three pairs. I imagine if werewolves are to have children someway, they should be more like human than dogs, as they stand with two feet, and have only one pair of breasts. And for the problem of bras, I believe the fur of a werewolf is the best bra for the purpose of the game. They put the bra here just to avoid certain parts being seen by the player while they stripe the fallen. The bra shouldn't even be invented before machines being invented. --[[User:Joshua.yathin.yu|Joshua.yathin.yu]] 09:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

== Advantage to curing ==
I haven't started the companions questline yet and I was just wondering what the advantage or reason for curing lycanthropy is. From reading the page it seems like it is just a power you can use once a day so why would you want to cure it, or am I missing something?[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:32, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

The main and only disadvantage of lycanthropy is, that you cannot gain [[Skyrim:Sleeping|resting bonuses]]! So you have to ponder if 100% resistance to all diseases and once per day Power Beast Form equalize no resting bonuses... For me it was absolutly clear, cause i dont like "once per day" powers, and im argonian, so i already have 50% resistance and i want to use the +10% resting bonus. --[[User:Psychomc|Psychomc]] 23:26, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
:Ah, I see now. You probably also wouldn't be able to become a vampire either. I never sleep in the game so I think I'll leave the cure for now. Thanks for the help.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:13, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

== Werewolves in the Wild? ==

Can anyone tell me if there are any werewolves that are just random fights? cause I havent come across one yet and that sucks cause I really wanna fight one. I havent done the champions crap cause I dont want to. I'm a vampire that wants to kick some wolf ass! How hard is it to create a few werewolves on top of mountain areas?
:Sorry, there arn't any wild werewolves. The only way you can fight a werewolf is during [[Skyrim:Ill Met By Moonlight|Ill Met By Moonlight]].[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:22, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

::It is possible to occasionally find a live werewolf in the Silver Hand bases, although you normally only visit those during the Companions questline and doing so at other times may break that quest chain (among other things). It is also unlikely to provide much of a challenge since they're locked in cells or cages and can't attack you (although some of your attacks can strike them through the bars), and not particularly powerful as enemies even if you release them. - ND

== Vampire/Werewolf hybrid ==

Using the console to inflict yourself with Sanguinare Vampiris after becoming werewolf during the Companions questline makes it possible to be vampire and werewolf simultaneously. It is done by forcing the console with the "player.addspell 000b8780" command and it will eventually inflict you with the disease even though you are 100% resistant to diseases because of your beast blood.

However, upon tranforming into a werewolf (after becoming a vampire) and then reverting back to normal causes the vampiric facial changes and comments from NPCs about your pale skin and eyes full of hunger to disappear (eye color, pale skin, mouth-region, teeth). You will keep all vampire powers and effects, and you may transform into a werewolf as pleased (provided that you are in possession of the Ring of Hircine). Though, you will lose the ability to feed on ANY NPC, thus turning your soon-to-be Blood-Starved stage 4 vampirism permanent, as there is no way to return to stage 1 unless feeding. Transforming into a werewolf and feeding on killed victims will not substitute feeding as a vampire, and will not affect your stage of vampirism.

This makes a combination of vampire and werewolf tricky to play, as you will be attacked by all NPCs in the game, get a 100% weakness to fire, -100% magicka, health and stamina recovery, and you will not be able to get the well-rested bonus. Furthermore werewolves have a weakness to silver weapons, and are relatively weak in higher levels in regards of damage output, defense and magical resistance (see topic "Werewolf combat skill modifiers?"). Being affected by the +25% illusion spell efficiency and getting all the illusion perks may to some extend be helpful living a life as hybrid.

Keep in mind, you will only experience these changes if you transform into a werewolf after becoming a vampire. You will still be able to look like a vampire and feed like a vampire if you do not transform. If you choose to transform and later decide to check if the console can help you (by typing player.setrace (playerrace)racevampire) to feed again, then you might be disappointed. Even though it allows you to feed again, it will not return your vampiric facial changes and the action will lock ground/root you in your current spot, and you cannnot move nor spin the camera more than 180 degrees. Transforming into a werewolf in this state will only worsen the problem by restraining your camera view even further, and you will have to reload a previously saved game in order to fix it.

Mini-conclusion:
Playing a hybrid vampire/werewolf leaves the player in troubled waters, and will need too much time trying to fix the problems. This leaves out few options: Do not try to play as a hybrid - use the time on the good things in this game rather than cleaning up "your own mess". However, if you are a "Tamriel Veteran" you might get a good challenge beating master difficulty while living a life as vampire/werewolf hybrid.

If you want to play as a werewolf, then it is most beneficial at lower levels.

If you want to play as a vampire, then the advantages and disadvantages are best balanced by playing a spellcaster or a stealth character (or mixed). Playing a melee-based character can be difficult due to the high exposure of fire spells/fire enchantments (vampires have a weakness to fire, and fire damage is very common).

== No sleep bonuses ==

Shouldn't the fact you gain no sleeping bonuses from resting under disadvantages? [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 05:30, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Poisoned Apple

2011-12-24T00:03:02Z

Roleplayer242621:

==Availability==
The barrel full of poisoned apples in Fort Farragut really is available to absolutely any player, without any requirement that you have to first join the Dark Brotherhood. I just went and double-checked using a character who has not joined the Dark Brotherhood, and the secret entrance to Fort Farragut was there, could be used to enter Lucien's room in the Fort, and the barrel full of apples was there, with 10 apples in it. There is a very hard lock on the barrel, but that is the only obstacle. I've previously obtained poisoned apples using a non-dark-brotherhood character by going in through the front door of Fort Farragut. And those 10 apples will respawn, so any character has access to an infinite supply of poisoned apples. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:31, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

:I had done the same yet the barrel was empty there may be a game version specific issue with this.--[[User:Obliv4PS3|Obliv4PS3]] 03:33, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

::I obviously can't check the Oblivion.esm file for the PS3, but it's hard to believe that the developers would rewrite the file or modify the scripts to make the game behave differently on PS3. If for no other reason than that it makes maintaining the code at least twice as difficult if there are two different versions. For the Xbox 360 and PC versions of the game, there is nothing in the scripting that would change the behaviour of the barrel at any point. There are no enable/disable commands for the barrel or the apples; in other words, the barrel is always there.
::Are you sure you checked the right barrel? Is there any chance that you had recently emptied the barrel and not given the game 73+ hours to reset before going back in to the fort? I'd just like to be really sure that there's no other possible explanation before saying that there might be differences in gameplay on the PS3. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:47, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

::I will check again by making a new character tomorrow to late now.I do know for a fact that I checked the right barrel. Further more I will know whether it was a momentary glitch or weird PS3 scripting when I double check. I do have the best interest in having everything on this site be as accurate as possible as do you.--Most Honored Listener 03:53, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

::Looks like it was a weird glitch. It is also possible that even if you are a member the fact that you are a member and not yet to the purification quest could limit if there are apples or not. Somehow I unlocked the very hard lock first try at lvl 1. Kinda surprised myself with that one. Thank you for helping this be cleared up.--Most Honored Listener 14:24, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

Wizards grotto in Bravil? I can't find any such place. There is a shop called The Warlock's Luck, but there are no poisoned apples in there that I can find. [[User:Onefang|Onefang]] 14:05, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

its part of the arrow of extraction thievs guild quest [[Oblivion:Arrow of Extraction|arrow of extraction]]--Most Honored Listener 14:49, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

== Is there a console command for the PC ==

to cure the poison?

:How do you cure the poison if you eat the apple? You know how when you eat the poisoned apple you die... well I kinda ate it accidentaly and now im dieing... the effect last even if you lived through the countdown till the effect supposevly wears off. I am surviving on copied welkyre stones. I had to use the glitch to save myself =(. someone please help. {{unsigned|76.214.133.140}}
::If you're on the PC, the [[Oblivion:Console|Console]] command <code>player.[[Oblivion:Console#removespell|removespell]] 9617</code> should work (although I've never tried it myself). If you're on Xbox 360 or PS3, there is no cure. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 21:45, 22 February 2008 (EST)
{{NewLine}}
I disagree with Nephele's comment above, because I believe there is a way to cure it on a console. Apologies on the lack of linking, but there is a glitch associated with Molag Bal's quest and the Sheogorath's Protection greater power that removes all active effects. It is caused when you actually die when the scripting is supposed to save you before you die. This might also remove the Deadly poison effect, although I hav'nt tried it. Perhaps someone could for me? The risk is great, losing all your active effects but if it saves your character this may prove a priceless method.- '''[[User:M'aiq the Liar|M'aiq the Liar]]''' 07:57, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

::There may be a cure, but wouldn't it just be easier just to admit defeat and reload a save? [[User:Matt360 432|Matt360 432]] 16:59, 6 December 2008 (EST)

== Using as potion ingredient with lvl 100 alchemy? ==

lvl 100 alchemy gives you a choice to make potions out of single ingredients, so does it make up a poison when it is used alone and not combined with anything inferior? {{unsigned|62.121.45.83}}
:It always makes a potion, whether you make a single-ingredient concoction at level 100 or whether you combine it with another special effect ingredient. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 15:16, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

== Essential characters? ==

From the article ''Poisoned Apples are a specialty item used by the Dark Brotherhood to assassinate people. These items will kill anyone who eats them, no matter what (even if the target is immune to poison)'' does this apply to essential characters, i.e. if they eat the apple do they die or does it have no effect or what? sorry for the bad sentence structure. [[User:Neoman4426|Neoman4426]] 21:31, 30 December 2007 (EST)
:Just as long as each sentence starts with a capital and ends with a puncuation, then you officially can type better than 87.5% of the people who can use the Internet :D. Anyway, I'm not sure what happens if an essential character is poisoned. I'm guessing they'll probably fall unconcious and get back up like nothing happened. Anyone managed to do it?--[[User:Darth NANAME|Darth NANAME]] 21:42, 30 December 2007 (EST)
::I've tested this. The character continuously gets up for a few seconds and falls unconscious. The poison apple become a character ability and therefore never wears off. I imagine there should be a command to disable this effect similar to the way it can be disabled on the player.

That could actually be helpful finding characters that go awry, like the last thieves guild fence that doesn't even use his own house! I spend way too much time finding some characters than i should. This would make it easier to have him in one place for longer xD

== Poison apple bomb ==

Ive heard rumors that when you leave a poison apple for to long on the ground that it explodes into a poisonous cloud, is this true?
: No, that's not true. I don't know where you heard that, but it's nonsense! –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 16:34, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: Maybe this is a Mod.. And a cool mod ^__^ --[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 22:36, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
::: Unnecessary violence. I think. The thing is, only potions cause explosive (splash) damage, that follow the potion's alchemical effects. that being the case, i do not think it would be possible with the apple itself, but maybe if you make some potion or something similar... [[Special:Contributions/209.112.187.130|209.112.187.130]] 11:48, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

== Eating the Apple ==

I distictly remember being able to eat the apple, and after the use of many Restore Health spells, having the effect end. I don't believe I had any mods of any kind active at the time. However, if there were any, they were all official. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 02:30, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
: I'm afraid you are mistaken because it never wears off. See Nephele's [[#Is there a console command for the PC|earlier comment]]. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 03:15, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
::I could've sworn I had.. Alright. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 17:05, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

== Disappearing Effect ==

I can confirm that the Deadly Poison effect does go away with these potions. Once on an old character of mine, I have potions made with them, and I was bored so I decided to drink the potion. I think the little effect thing appeared on the top right of my HUD, but nothing else did. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 17:29, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
: The point about the VN tag is that the article currently says "the potion '''may''' become ineffective". Does it always do so? Sometimes? Rarely? I'd guess it always happens since the effect is implemented as a script, but it still needs checking and the text needs fixing. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:46, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
::Oops. Didn't catch that. I'm not sure if it always happens, however, I would assume that it does. I can check here in a little bit. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 18:30, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I justed tested it out. And every time, after making a potion with the poison apple then saving and reloading, the script effect never takes place. Is that enough for the VN tag to be taken off? [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 19:08, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Yup. And edit the text to be less equivocal. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 01:06, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::Done. -[[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 15:33, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

== Food and drinks, or just food? ==

The article says I should remove all the food so that the NPC will eat the apple. Does this include drinks like ale and wine, or just solid food like carrots and potatoes?

:If you want to be on the safe side, take it all,but it isn't neccasary for a kill. [[User:Matt360 432|Matt360 432]] 17:02, 6 December 2008 (EST)

== Sibylla Draconis ==

I'm not so sure that she doesn't eat any food at all. It doesn't say anything about this [[Oblivion:Sibylla Draconis|here]]. Does anybody know if this statement is true? --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 05:25, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
: It doesn't say that because the schedule hasn't been written yet, but it's definitely true. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 07:25, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
:: I'll take your word for it. I don't understand why you undid my rewording though. Just because an NPC has a replenishing food supply in their inventory, it does not make them "Immune" to the Poisoned Apple. If they ate it, they would still die. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 07:31, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
::: That's why it says ''effectively'' immune. The grammar of your modification wasn't right, so I switched it back. It's fine as it is. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 07:34, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

== Poisoned Apple Glitch ==

:''(Following moved here from [[Oblivion:Glitches/Proposed]])''
This glitch allows for a single poisoned apple to wipe out an entire city guard to it is as follows. step one: acquire poisoned apples step two: clear out all the food in a city barracks (tested in Bruma,) step three: place apple in the guards primary food source and clear out all other food from tables ect. step four: before any guard can take the poisoned apple you must leave the barracks and city until the regular food re-spawns in the barracks, which usually happens in about 1 game week. step five: re-enter town to find most all guards have gained the poisoned apple script effect even though only one apple was used.

:There is already a poisoned apple glith, how it wipes out the entire gaurd town, that is correct, but for my game there is less steps. All i did was give one gaurd a poisoned apple, and than once he respawned all gaurds had the effect. just an easier way to do it, no cleaning out the food supply and waiting one week.

== D'oh ==

I'm angry now.

During the Molag Bal daedric quest I let that guy kill me with the cursed mace. However, my char was a very high level, and endured well. I grew impaetient.

So... I ate a Poisoned Apple to make it go faster. I got the mace from Molag Bal, and saved. Unfortunatley after I saved, I realized the deadly poison effect was still on me. I died several times trying to fix this.

HELP {{unsigned|PikachuMan|24 May 2009}}
: Reload from an earlier save. There is no other solution. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:11, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

== Losing my character ==

so i ate the apple by accident without noticing and saved and then i walked through a door and it auto saved. do i have to delete my character? i cant find anything else to do no potions churches or spells work... and i really dont wanna lose my character {{Unsigned|24.121.241.58|18 June 2009}}

:I'm sorry, there is no way to remove that effect (unless you are on the PC). I'm not familiair with file management on the game consoles, but I know Oblivion could have made a backup of your previous autosave (not the current). Perhaps you can try to retrieve that file? --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]] < [[User_talk:Timenn|talk]] > 10:59, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

== Watching ==

Do you have to be watching an NPC to get them to eat a poisoned apple? I gave one to Areldil because i was using the Marie Elena as a second home and he kept walking on it and generally annoying me. So after giving it to him I clear out his house and the bloated float of food ad go on as normal. several in game weeks of doing quests and such later he's still walking around, so i follow him for about 3 minutes till he walks into the bloated float, eats, uses healing spells futilely to save his life then falls over dead. Was this just a coincidence or was it because i was there watching him?

Just a crazy hunch, but maybe he was always effected, just not outside the room you left him in. Im guessing when you reentered the building with him it loaded the effects of when you last left the area and saved permanently to him then. I hope that makes sense to you.

== Duping Posioned Apples? ==

If you dupe a posioned apple(if it's possible) will the duped apples have the same effect as the original? {{Unsigned|75.13.155.206|15 September 2009}}

:Yes, they will. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:09, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Can NPCs Drink? ==

I know it is possible to make poisoned apple potions, but is it possible for NPCs to drink them? Seeing the talk page for [[Oblivion talk:Dagail|Dagail]] I wondered if the info on there was true that NPCs can't drink. If it is, than placing an apple potion in a NPCs inventory won't kill them. I also wonder if there are any other pages that suggest that NPCs can or cannot drink. Anybody know the truth? [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 02:18, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

:Well if I understood what I just read in Dagail's page, the animation of drinking doesn't affects the gameplay. The animation is just done if an NPC has a glass, cup, goblet or anything that would make the drinking animation appear. Because NPCs '''do''' drink potions, except that there's no special animation. That's why when you are in combat, enemies with a potion of restore health '''will''' drink it but there will be no animation (besides the one of the effect). ;) --[[Special:Contributions/S'drassa|MC]]• [[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 03:40, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

== Are you SURE the effect doesn't go away? ==

I've been playing with the construction set and I noticed it says it has damage health 10 points for 1000 seconds on the Poison Apple Effect ability. 1440 seconds is one game day, so isn't it technically possible to ride out the poison apples effects if you have enough restore health potions? {{Unsigned|67.234.243.42|30 December 2009}}

:I believe that duration has no influence on effects provided by abilities. It's likely that that value is simply ignored, and the Damage Health stays after 1000 secs. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 21:01, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

::Well I just tried eating an apple, setting the timescale to 6000 using the console and waiting several in-game days while occasionally quaffing a healing potion. The effect never wore off so it does indeed look like the duration on abilities is ignored. I know that's not a perfect test but I really can't be bothered waiting a full in-game day. –[[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 21:23, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

== Poison apple ==
Ok i was eating all of my ingredients and i was paying attention and I accidently ate the damn apple...is their a cure
Oh and I have i on the xbox360???? Please i really want to know {{unsigned|Oblivion4life333|18:32, 25 January 2010 (UTC)}}
:Unfortunately there is no cure at all since the effect is scripted other than to constantly consume health potions. You just have to load an earlier save. --[[User:Mptrj|Mptrj]] - [[User talk:Mptrj|♠]] - [[Special:Contributions/Mptrj|♣]] 18:32, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
::i dont have any earlier save's{{Unsigned|Oblivion4life333|25 January 2010}}

:::Whoops for you then.. You could carry on playing with your slowly dying character or make a new game --[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 22:41, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't see how people are accidentally eating these things unless what I'm seeing is due to the unofficial patch or something. When I try to eat it, a box pops up that says "''Are you sure want to eat this deadly, absolutely incurable Poisoned Apple and definitely die?''" The options are "''No! Of course not!''" and "''Yes''". I couldn't find a mention of it in the UOP, so I'm not sure if it's from that or something else. --[[Special:Contributions/98.240.0.201|98.240.0.201]] 11:37, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

== Cancel it out? ==

Could there be a way to add a +10 health attribute to cancel out the poison apples -10 health effect? {{Unsigned|198.172.213.190|11 April 2010}}

:Yes, that would cancel it out. Such an effect would be difficult to acquire though, the only likely option is to keep drinking (powerful) Restore Health potions. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 11:34, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

== A way to survive for a bit longer... But you still die... ==

The way i used to try and ride out the poison effects was to combine alo vrea leaves with venisson with a very good alchemy skill and equipment, it let me outlast the timer but the game sadly is scripted so that when you eat a poisoned apple you gain an ability that cannot be removed (unless on the PC)... I have tried every available method while drowning myself in potions and nothing works so the best idea is to always have 2 save files and alternate betweeen them while saving, this keeps them up to date (sort of) and if you do do a stupid thing (like me) and accidently eat a poisoned apple while eating your inventory or something along those lines you have a save file not too far back to load, i unfortunatley had not saved for a while and lost over 5 levels and 400 skills... =( im on the PS3 by the way

An added note, you can make a better potion than that! By taking advantage of the "more than 4
potions" glitch you can make a potion with aloe vera leaves, cairn bolete cap, alkanet flower, and
water hyacinth nectar. this results in a restore health/damage fatigue potion that only weighs 0.1.
Don't get confused with the damage fatigue effect (it's not like you can't regenerate it back),
that's for the multiple potion glitch (read up on it). this is my safest potion to make sure you
counter the poisoned apple regardless of alchemy skill, even get you well into the positive health
regen. Tag: "The ultimate restore health recipe"

== Poisoned apples not respawning? ==

Hi, I heard that there was a barrel full of Poisoned Apples in Fort Farragut and that selling them would make a lot of money. I went over there, lockpicked the barrel, got all 10 of the apples, sold them, and sure enough, I got almost 1500 gold for them. I went over to Fort Farragut again, waited 3 days, and nothing was inside the barrel. I waited for a week of in-game time, and still, nothing. Eventually, it said I couldn't wait when there were enemies nearby, so I just reloaded a previous save. So... what's going on? Has Bethesda caught on to this method of making money and fixed it in the latest patch? Or am I doing something wrong? I'm playing on the Xbox 360 version, in case it matters. [[Special:Contributions/86.155.43.215|86.155.43.215]] 13:24, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

:hmm...i don't think things respawn when you're there so try going to a diffrent place and waiting--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 13:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I just waited 3 days in Cheydinhal and travelled over to Fort Farragut. I checked the barrel and, sure enough, there were 10 poisoned apples in there, again! Now I have 3100 gold, not bad for a Level 1. Thanks a lot! I plan on buying the Anvil Mansion now and making some powerful spells... [[Special:Contributions/86.155.43.215|86.155.43.215]]

:no prolem!--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 14:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

== Poisoned Apple: I'm immune now! ==

I have the most legitimate character i can make on oblivion and i am immune to the poisoned apple now! i have no idea how this happened because the first time i just fooled around and drank my master alchemy created potion and died. I reloaded and did the same thing but i cant die now! i'm 100%serious! i don't know if its a luck thing because i recently boosted my luck to 89 (not including my ring of perfection). it shouldn't be something like that though because i did the same thing twice with the same level character. It must be a major glitch because stuff like "the boots of springheel jack" won't load for me as well. I could tell you my level 52 dark elf's stats if you need me to, i just want to know how this happened and help others xD
:If you are on the computer, use the console and type "addspell 00009617" without quotes, then tell us what happens [[User:Corvus|Corvus]] 09:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
its on the ps3 so i cant do that :(
I have a bigger problem now, is it ok to talk about springheel jak quest? i stole his boots for the quest to work again but i cant give them to the gray fox. I can't kill jakben for them because he is still an important character. selling them to a fence and buying back won't work because it's a quest item... i'm sooo depressed right now ;( someone on wiki must have discovered ways to fix things like this on ps3, they just gota!!!

someone needs to tell me how to activate the quest part where he gives you the crypt key, there is no way for me to get it currently. remember, im on the ps3 so clever ideas will help console players that have problems too. Thank you.

:Does the Gray Fox say "Not now. I need to think" when you talk to him? [[User:Corvus|Corvus]] 12:24, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

== stacking the poisoned apple effect? ==

Can anyone verify if you can add on to the poisoned apple effect with more poisoned apples?
:I'm not sure, but since the damage health effect from them is infinite it wouldn't serve much purpose, they are impossible to survive anyway [[User:Corvus|Corvus]] 12:22, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

== drinking potion instead of eating apple ==

When will a NPC drink a potion. It seems that some people doesn't eat will drink the daedly potion([[User:Vvardfell|Vvardfell]] 10:55, 21 October 2010 (UTC))

== Poisoned apple and other item ==

Can i use a poisoned apple(Master perk) and two other item to make a potion with other effect([[User:Vvardfell|Vvardfell]] 11:00, 21 October 2010 (UTC))

:No, you can't, since items that have scripted effects, like the poisoned apple, never have any other effects, and there need to be overlapping effects when you use multiple ingredients. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 20:39, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

::Then why greenmote's effect can combine with othr effect,and can you answer my question in the previous section ([[User:Vvardfell|Vvardfell]] 09:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC))

:::You can't combine greenmote's effect with anything except another script effect item like a poisoned apple. I don't know the answer to your previous question. As I suggested on your talk page, a lot of these questions would be more appropriate and probably get more responses in the [http://forums.uesp.net forums]. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 11:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

::::Then why [[Oblivion:Useful Potions#Special Effects|script effect ingredient]] said that we can combine greenmote effect and other effect ([[User:Vvardfell|Vvardfell]] 12:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC))

:::::Because all the ingredients listed there are also script-effect ingredients. But as it says in that section, if you combine two script-effect ingredients, only the first effect will actually be used in the resulting poison. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 14:18, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Than why it's impossible to create a potson with deadly poison and other effact(Iwant it zero weight)([[User:Vvardfell|Vvardfell]] 14:45, 22 October 2010 (UTC))
:::::::Because, as I said in my first response, there are no other effects on those ingredients. They need to have something in common with non-script-effect ingredients in order to work. So depending on the order you add things in, either you'll get only the script effect or only the effect of the other ingredients. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 15:56, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

::::::::Then, is it possible to create a zero weight potion with only deadly poisoned effect([[User:Vvardfell|Vvardfell]] 03:26, 23 October 2010 (UTC))

{{od}} Only at Master level, when you can do it from just the poisoned apple (and what would be the point when you could just use the apple itself). Before that, it might be possible with some of the script-effect ingredients that weigh 0.1, I'm not sure. You'd have to try it. If that doesn't work, nothing else will, since none of the other ingredients weighs 0. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 10:57, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

== spellmaking ==

Should me mention that there are no way to make spell of poisoned apple effect.([[User:Vvardfell|Vvardfell]] 10:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC))

: There's no need. This is an ingredient and has nothing to do with spells. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:44, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Poison Effect Duration ==
I play on Xbox 360. I ate an poisoned apple; I went to drop it, pressed the wrong button and that's how. I had a plenty (I mean a shit load of it) lot of restore health potion and I drank all of them. (not at the same time like 4 each time, exit menu and bla bla bla) The effect duration stand for a long time but is is not for ever. I am surprised nobody actually already wrote about this. [[User_talk:Lengin|talk]]
:You're correct. The script effect lasts for 1000 seconds. [[User:Mxk101|mxk101]][[User_talk:Mxk101|Talk]] 22:35, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

::If you can confirm that the effect is 1000 seconds then go ahead and change the notes section to say 1000 seconds instead of indefinitely.--[[User:Zar Pof|Zar Pof]] 23:27, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
::: An in-game test showed that the duration was ignored. <s>No idea why.</s> [[User:Mxk101|mxk101]][[User_talk:Mxk101|Talk]] 23:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
::::It's implemented as an ability so it shouldn't wear off. [[User:Mxk101|mxk101]][[User_talk:Mxk101|Talk]] 00:01, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

:::::I checked as well, the timer counts down to zero but once it runs out the effect is still active, effectively the countdown timer is stuck on zero. This was tested on an unmodded version of the game. So anyone who claims they 'survived' it is lying.--[[User:Zar Pof|Zar Pof]] 00:53, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
::::::You can "survive" a poisoned apple. It's just an incredible inconvenience for the rest of the game to do so, as you will constantly be enduring the effect. [[Special:Contributions/144.132.165.178|144.132.165.178]] 07:21, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

== sneak skill? ==

it has always told me i can not place items in containers but i never bothered trying after leveling up my sneak to master. is it possable to do so by leveling up or do i need one of those plug thingys?

That simply means you can't put any items that have any weight whatsoever into someone's inventory by means of reverse pickpocketing, reguardless of sneak level. Sounds like that's what you're doing, since that's the message that appears after attempting to do so. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 00:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Staff of Worms

2011-12-19T22:47:07Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Permanant Corpses? */

== Early Acquirement ==
Can you get the Staff of Worms without going through all the other Mage's Guild quets?
:I suspect not unless you cheat (e.g. <code>player.addItem 4A24E 1</code>). Generally, they're pretty careful about not making such rewards accessible until they're supposed to be. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 16:45, 23 February 2008 (EST)
::I agree, just look at the Leveled lists. For example, in Morrowind, you could wander off (like I did) and steal Daedric Greaves at lvl 1, also, you could attack (and get killed) by every enemy at lvl 1. The only 'strong' item you can get without being 'supposed to' is Umbra, as far as I can think off right now. But the Mages Guild questline isn't that hard is it? Only the recommendation quests are a bore eventually. - [[User:Korunox|Korunox]] 17:27, 23 February 2008 (EST)

== Ungrateful Guards ==

When I reanimate guards, they attack me as if they had never died. Is this just something wrong with me or have others experienced it as well? Should it go on the page? [[User:68.166.64.187|68.166.64.187]] 00:08, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
:I wasn't aware it worked on guards.--[[User:Darth NANAME|Darth NANAME]] 22:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

They attack you because they remain loyal to whatever Factions they were in before death, as does every other NPC. Since your guard was in the Guards' Faction, he will attack you the same as any other guard if you're caught doing something illegal by him. So to answer your question, no, nothing is wrong with you or your game. Hope this helps.--[[User:Lord Sheogorath|Lord Sheogorath]] 06:47, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

== Staff Doesnt Work on Daedra? ==

I took the staff into an Oblivion World and it seems I cannot use it to reanimate xivilai or any dremora...Anyone else notice this?
:It will only work on the following: Imperials, Bretons, Redguards, Nords, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Orcs, Khajiit, Argonians, Dremora, Golden Saints, and Dark Seducers. Why Dremora don't get revived when you use it, I have no idea. --[[User:Darth NANAME|Darth NANAME]] 22:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::Uh Xilivi are creatures...

:::if the staff cant be used to reanimate dremora, then why does it say that you can reanimate them and kill them to obatin unlimited ammounts of items like dremora hearts or vampire dust? [[User:Lindenbrock|Lindenbrock]] 21:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

::::The original post was incorrect. I just confirmed in-game that it will work on Dremora, as detailed in the [[Oblivion:Reanimate|Reanimate]] article. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 01:30, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

== SoW Gets Necromancers Amulet ==

I wanted to go resurrect Caranya and when she died she had the necromancers amulet, but it able to dropped! This obviously must be done before she dissapears. And if you revive her over and over she'll
keep coming back with amulets!'''Does NOT work with Irlov Jarol and the the Helmet associated with him.'''

== Easy Grand Souls ==

Go get a black soul gem, duplicate it using scrolls (or arow if you have an unpatched game). Then go find a human, I prefer a dead human, like Agamir because his body never vanishes. After, use the staff of worms to bring him back from the dead. After soultrap, kill, and enjoy! {{unsigned|68.193.148.174|02:31, 23 June 2008}}
:OR you could fill one, and duplicate it. That would probably be easier. But yeah, you could do that. Not sure if reanimate would work on an already dead NPC, though. A better idea would be to use glarthir, or maybe the adoring fan. Remember to sign, or get a profile on the wiki. [[User:The Wurm|The Wurm]][[User Talk:The Wurm|Talk]] 02:04, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
::The Duplication glitch doesnt work for me for filled BSG's funny shtuff happens you can dupe unfilled BSGs's though[[User:Datacaust|Datacaust]] 07:48, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Tips moved from main article ==

:''I moved this from the main article. It is poorly worded, written in mostly first-person perspective, and difficult to understand. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 22:05, 16 September 2008 (EDT)''
* NPCs are extreamly useful they can hold an infinant amount of weight if u give them the right sword or what ever they can steal souls i personaly have 7 slaves to do my biding yes it is a pain to give them life every 30 sec but there just fun to have.
* If ur a pack rat like i a slave NPC is a huge help i duped evrey thing i had and put it on him he held 10,000 didnt fase him.
* Necromancers hear my no more having to jump camp to camp just trying to fill your black soul gems use the staff of worms to give that life less body a soul then at ur wim take it away they will not draw there swords.

==Give equipment to dead followers?==

Is it possible that I can give weapons and armor to my dead followers? {{unsigned|Erlend}}

Yes, simply put your desired equipment in the corpse and remove any you don't want it to wear, reanimate the corpse then attack it until it becomes hostile. It should equip the items you gave it, after it does just kill the reanimated corpse and it should use that equipment from now on. I only reccomend this with non-disappearing corpses unless you don't mind only having your undead follower for about three days then losing all of the equipment you put in it.--[[User:Lord Sheogorath|Lord Sheogorath]] 06:48, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
:Attacking reanimated characters doesn't cause them to become hostile.[[User:Datacaust|Datacaust]] 07:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Repairing beyond 100 durability ==
I have encountered a bug with the staff of corruption:
By repairing it to 125% durability it disappears when "dropped" (no sound of dropping, no visible item falling nor on the ground). This has occurred more than once (consoled the item back). Anyone else encountered this? [[Special:Contributions/144.138.87.60|144.138.87.60]] 05:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

:Staffs occasionly fall thorugh the floor for no apparant reason like when sigil stones teleport for no reason when you attempt to grab them.--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 21:00, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== Undead Army in Benirus Manor Basement? ==

I have been wondering this for a long time but never had the time to try it, but could anyone tell me if I used the Staff of Worms to reanimate a non-disappearing corpse and had it follow me to my Benirus Manor Necromancy Area, would it re-spawn wherever it was origionally killed or remain in my basement?--[[User:Lord Sheogorath|Lord Sheogorath]] 06:49, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
:it would stay there, but of course it would die after 30 seconds as usual. [[User:Legoless|Legoless]] 21:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
What about when the cell resets? Will the corpse still be there? I'm afraid that since the only permenant corpses are identified as Quest Items that they will respawn in the place of their death(for an example, I can return to [[Oblivion:Fort Strand|Fort Strand]] after [[Oblivion:When the Vow Breaks|When the Vow Breaks]] and get another [[Oblivion:Rockshatter|Rockshatter]], although I'm not sure if this is a bug or the item really respawning).--[[User:Lord Sheogorath|Lord Sheogorath]] 06:49, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

== Best staff? ==

Although at first it did not seem useful in combat, at higher levels it is probably the best staff in the game. Especially in high concentrated mobs of bandits. It is not only unique and powerful, but 200 uses lets me use it without feeling that annoying guilt of shooting off a staff. --[[User:Star Mage|Star Mage]] 20:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah you can pretty make enemies your allies if they aren't guards or anything, really fun to do that. --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 13:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

== You Smell of Death ¬_¬ ==
hmmm... If I dropped the staff of worms in a public place, would an NPC with no weapon who has "got angry" with me pick up the staff of worms and use it on dead people?--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 19:16, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:They might try to use it on you... -[[User:DevotedInsanity|DevotedInsanity]] 19:45, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
: Npcs are idiots, clearly I am alive--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 19:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:: They will, hopelessly, try to use it to hurt you and only if they misfire will they resurrect a corpse.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 15:21, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

::: This idea might be crazy but if you die and then quickly an NPC SOMEHOW gets you with the staff of worms would you be resurrected??? :O! --[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 15:26, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
:::: By the time the ressurection animation was over on yourself, the menu of saved games would force itself up on you. But I guess the game would still realize your dead and your body would turn into a NPC. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 15:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

::::: A test is needed! Someone on Pc please do this, because it will take FOREVER on the xbox--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 15:30, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

::::::From my testing of using the resurrect command on myself in Morrowind as long as it hits '''before''' the menu of saved games comes up it ''should'' work but since this was in a different game and using a console command this could happen differently here.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 18:27, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::But ressurect is different from reanimate.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 18:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::::: I didn't mean resurrect yourself, I meant to be reanimated by another npc with the staff of worms --[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 18:32, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::::::Yeah, I know I had just done those though and they're somewhat related so I figured I'd provide the information. And this is the only test I can do in this case because I have Morrowind for the PC but Oblivion for the PS3.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 18:38, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::::::: Thanks for doing the test but I would like to know what happens in Oblivion also :)--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 18:40, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::: I'll try talking to Rpeh or somebody. And I'd done the test already.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 18:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

← Don't include me as "somebody" — I can't think of an easy way to test this. I had a look in the CS and it looks like the Reanimate effect is limited to Touch and Target, so you would ''have'' to have someone else do it to you; I don't think there's even a console command you could use, though I'm no expert at console commands. The only way I can think to set this up would be to create a follower with an unlimited-use item and script the follower to either cast the spell at regular intervals or maybe, if it's even possible, to cast it when the player dies. Rpeh's thought of things I hadn't several times before, though, so he's probably your best bet here. ‒ [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] 22:37, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

: I can't think of any easy way to test this either, and I'm certainly not spending my time getting killed over and over again in the hope that an NPC uses the staff on me at just the right moment. My instinct is that it wouldn't work anyway. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 04:43, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

:: Okay sure, I don't mind if nobody tests it. I was just curious as to what would happen if you are reanimated.--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 15:02, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

:::If someone made a mod of there being a longer "death screen" for when you die (preferably one that doesn't go away until you hit Esc. (PC) or Start (Xbox 360/PS3) when you want to load a save) then it could be possible, but I'm not sure if you could actually control yourself or not, maybe you would become an NPC and watch what your guy does? Well kinda bizarre but hey it may be possible, I'm an Xbox 360 user so I can't get mods for it, I would attempt it if I had a PC version though. --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 20:12, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

::::I know there is a mod that prevents the loading screen after death, so if you were to, say, disable the script(?) that prevents you from casting spells during paralysis/death/unconciousness, then cast the spell on self, would that ressurect your character? what about 'enabling' yourself after death? Or using the mod and also creating a potion with the reanimate effect, and drinking it??? Sorry for butting in, I'm just full of ideas lately. [[User:The Wurm|The Wurm]][[User Talk:The Wurm|Talk]] 05:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

::::: For the last time, We know this would be possible on the PC but A test is needed for the Xbxox, these are all great ideas but none of them apply..--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 15:19, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

::::::Why dont you test it yourself??? --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 15:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:::::::Too much work; it's random if it hits you at just the right time. (Hmm. Maybe wait until the spell has ''almost'' hit you then console yourself to 0 health ?)--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 20:31, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::::::::Yeah sorry how I put it in that comment but I have a great idea how you could do it, get a distance back, let the enemy fire (use, activate, etc.) the Staff of Worms, right before the bolt the Staff or Worms fires hits you go to your Inventory (Xbox 360 is B, PC is Z I think, not positive), and repeatedly equip and unequip an item that does damage to you (the Blackwood Ring of Silence is best) until your health reaches 0 then leave the menus, let the bolt hit you and see what happens, I could try this but not sure what would happen, don't wanna scar my game or anything, anyone tell me if there are any flaws with that or not? --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 14:03, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::Not that I know of. Good luck ! Save first all that good stuff.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 15:02, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::::::::Alright, thanks TheAlbinoOrc, I'll try to get to it ASAP, I'll get back to you and anyone else who has interest in what will happen, just make sure you get back to this discussion sometime soon so you can see what happens (if you have interest). --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 15:28, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

{{od}} Yeah I'll check back later, got to go now though.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 15:50, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

:Alright, see ya later AlbinoOrc, take care. --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 16:41, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

So it didnt work?[[User:Datacaust|Datacaust]] 08:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== NPCs that stay reanimated? ==

Arnora is the only one that I know of that stays re-animated by reloading a previous save (as mentioned in the quest related to her).
This may take awhile for the right response, but does anyone know of more NPCs that stay reanimated by loading a save or autosave after resurrecting them? Two that can be scratched off the list are "Else god-hater" and "Tyrellius Logellus". [[Special:Contributions/72.181.109.170|72.181.109.170]] 01:23, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:No Conjurers will stay re-animated and neither will Bandits or Marauders but that's still a ''lot'' of work to do--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 20:27, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Well, I've tried it with the few times I actually find the dead. During the "Trolls of Forsaken Mine" quest from Oreyn of the Fighter's Guild, all dead guild-mates can be revived through the glitch besides Viranus Donton; but it is alot of work, since I had to kill all creatures of the mine and then leave and come back in to update the autosave (before I resurrected them one at a time and loaded the autosave, leaving and re-entering). However, the dead residents of Water's Edge from Oreyn's "Infiltration" quest will not stay alive with resurrection and an autosave. I would venture to say that it doesn't work outdoors, given the fact that Tyrellius Logellus and the Water's Edge residents don't work. Then again, it didn't work on Else god-hater either, and she was inside. =/ [[Special:Contributions/72.181.109.170|72.181.109.170]] 08:23, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

== What If the Staff of Worms was used on the Player? ==

I just got done testing out what would happen if the Staff of Worms was used on you right after you had died, and here is the complete details on what happened:

I went to the Imperial City and went up to a few guards, killed one guard, looted his weapons, resurrected him using the Staff of Worms, dropped the Staff right next to him, he just ran off, but fortunately less than a minute later an Argonian ran up and picked up the Staff, shot me a few times and about the 4th time I went to my Inventory, kept equipping and unequipping the Blackwood Ring of Silence to lower and eventually kill my guy, the script where the music plays and my guy grunts in pain as it usually would plays as I still have the Inventory open, no screen pops up where it says I have to load a save so I then closed my Inventory and was hit by the bolt just as I died, but nothing happened unfortunately, the loading your saved files screen came up as usual, I do have an idea though, if my body completely hit the ground then the Staff of Worms would probably come into effect since the game doesn't think that you will hit someone with it right as they die, it would me much appreciated if a PC user could disable the script for a loading screen popping up and also make it so an enemy shoots at your body after your death, preferably like 5 or more seconds after your death, so it is pretty much impossible at this point for the Xbox 360, but possible for the PC with the right hacking tools or mods, etc., thanks for reading this far in my post and thanks AlbinoOrc for the encouragement and all that good stuff :-) --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 20:12, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
:After disabling the script, could you cast it on-self (custom spell from the SI spell)? [[User:The Wurm|The Wurm]][[User Talk:The Wurm|Talk]] 21:02, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

::Not sure, if you are talking about a Shivering Isles spell then I really have no clue, what's the spell's name and how can I obtain it? Thanks! --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 21:34, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Hmm. Maybe on PC you could make an enchanted item with this effect and wear it before killing yourself ?--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 22:40, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

::::Nope. Unless you mod, there is no way to make custom spells or enchantments with reanimate. [[User:The Wurm|The Wurm]][[User Talk:The Wurm|Talk]] 22:55, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::Which is why a PC user would have to do this. But it sounds easier than the method described to so...--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 23:20, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

::::::It would be interesting to see what would happen if your guy was resurrected with the Staff of Worms even with messing with the game's coding even though that completely ruins the point of it being a glitch, maybe Bethesda put certain Tags on the Player where he cannot be resurrected with the Staff of Worms and that's why it didn't work? Well I'll look into Resurrecting the Player some more tomorrow, I'll probably focus on getting hit right before the "loading your saved files" screen pops up, see ya later guys, I appreciate the help : ) --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 01:29, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::::I got an idea to see if the Player has Tags on him so he can't be resurrected, if a PC user could open their console (by pressing the ~ on your keyboard, it's just to the left of the 1 key), type in (without the quotes) "createfullactorcopy", kill the copy of your character that pops up and try out the Staff of Worms on him, if you don't get it then here's a basic summary on what this does: The copy that shows up when you type in createfullactorcopy is an exact duplicate of your character, I'm guessing it has the same tags as the Player since it is a copy, anyway this is just to test to see if the Player does or does not have Tags that disable the Staff of Worm's script, thanks! --[[user:Dremora Lord|Dremora Lord]] 21:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== Rare Glitch ==

:''(moved from the article)''
A rare glitch may occur in which a reanimated NPC cannot be interacted with and moves backwards without walking. Instead of conforming to hills, the NPC will sink until the feet go too deep, at which point the NPC will reappear instantly above the same space. This backwards movement will continue until the NPC has completely left the map. The NPC will also not be subject to the 30 second time-span of the enchantment. However, the NPC can still be killed. The same NPC will continue this behavior regardless of how many times it is reanimated.

: Sounds like a one-off, so isn't worth including on the main article. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 09:56, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

== Permanent Revival ==

Umm....yes, are there any revival spell's that bring them back to life, but don't make them your Ally? I'm talking about permanent not temporarily. [[User:Cirith Mara|Cirith Mara]] 22:04, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:No there are not. However, if you are on the PC, you can bring up the console, click on the dead NPC, and enter "Resurrect 1". That should have the effect you are looking for.--[[User:The Void|The Void]] 15:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

===Duplicated Staff of worms===
Does that mean I can clone myself in loads of different caves If I also duplicate my Skull of corruption staff?--[[Special:Contributions/109.154.21.108|109.154.21.108]] 22:01, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== "Aquiring reanimate" ==

The article mentions this is one of the only two ways to aquire the reanimate effect, (I assume for spellmaking) but well, A) you can't aquire effects from enchanted items, and B) I was pretty sure that even aquiring the risen flesh power that has the reanimate effect you still cannot create custom spells with it. So yeah, I advocate we remove this from the article unless I am missing something.--[[Special:Contributions/64.238.189.82|64.238.189.82]] 18:57, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

:It doesn't say acquire the effect to use for Spellmaking, just to acquire, or be able to use the effect. --[[User:DKong27|DKong27]] [[User_talk:DKong27|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/DKong27|Cont]] 19:29, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

::Ah, I get it, its just the ability to use it period, not just to make a spell with it. I'm so used to the word "Aquire" being used in the sense of custom spells that I forgot what it really means. Thanks for clearing that up.--[[Special:Contributions/64.238.189.82|64.238.189.82]] 21:46, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

== Verification ==

Moved this from article:
*If you come across an NPC that is dead by sript and is never seen alive (etc. the NPCs in [[Oblivion:Trolls of Forsaken Mine|Trolls of Forsaken Mine]]), you can reanimate them and load a save for them to be permanently reanimated. Sadly, they will not follow you or fight, so no, you cannot raise a zombie army.
I have just tested, and I don't see how this works. I will try saving after the effect has been used, but it has not worked yet. --[[User:Manic|Manic]] 18:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I have attempted it ten times and it worked four out of the ten. Could do with some more tests, however I will place it back on the article for the time being. Also needs to be tested with the Reanimate spell acquired from the SHivering Isles. --[[User:Manic|Manic]] 18:24, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

==Permanant Corpses?==
Can anyone tell me, if any, of a corpse that never disappears or moves on it's own accord that I can stick in my basement? I enjoy roleplaying, and was curious if such a corpse existed, as until this point, I never really paid any mind to the habits of dead bodies, needless to say. Thanks. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 21:57, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
:[http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Category:Oblivion-Permanent_Corpses Here's a full list] of permanent corpses in Oblivion- take your pick! [[User:Kitkat1749|Kitkat]] •[[User talk:Kitkat1749|Talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Kitkat1749|Contrib]]•[[Special:EmailUser/Kitkat1749|E-mail]] 22:09, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a million, I couldn't for the life of me find that page. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 22:47, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Staff of Worms

2011-12-19T21:57:55Z

Roleplayer242621:

User:Roleplayer242621

2010-12-26T17:12:29Z

Roleplayer242621:

I will state now that in the past, I have been banned from this website. If need be, re-ban me, however I was approximently 11 years old, I am now 15 and much more mature than I once was, and I have a lot cooler temper to boot ;). I primarily roleplay on the Elder Scrolls IV - Oblivion, however I have a couple of primary accounts that I use for things other than RPing. I am ~extremely~ knowledgeable about Oblivion, the Shivering Isles, and the Knights of the Nine. I have the game for the Play Station Three Console, therefore I Cannot answer questions about modding if someone asks, I have no clue how to do it. That said, anything about Oblivion, SI, or KOTN, I can answer nearly everything. lastly, I genuinly apologise to Guildknight and Nephele for giving them a hard time when I was last on Wikia, I was rightfully banned, and if you so need it to be done, IP Ban me and no grudge will be held. Again, I am sorry.

Oblivion talk:Vampirism

2010-08-01T14:10:32Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Dark Elf Vampire post cure */

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||Apr 2006 - Oct 2007
|Archive 2||Nov 2007 - Jul 2008
|Archive 3||Aug 2008 - Nov 2009
}}

== Sun Damage ==
I have confirmed through some tests that sun damage actually follows this formula to a relatively good degree of accuracy (5% error)
SunDamageConstant(multiplier)=damage
where SunDamage Constant equals the number you see in your menu and
the multiplier is 2 when within one hour off 12:00 a.m., and goes down by (1/3) increments.
So the actual damage you take when 100% Vampire at 8:00 a.m. is (8)(.6667)= 5.33 damage a second
[[User:Nordickie|Nordickie]] 21:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== Advancing through stages using the console ==
Is it possible to advance through the stages of vampirism using the console (25, 50, 75, 100) and skipping the 3 day waiting period. To be clear I am NOT speaking of becoming a vampire. I am asking if one is already a vampire is it possible to use the console to quickly advance him back and forth through the stages. {{unsigned|98.240.210.20|02:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)}}

== Appearance Change ==
This is really weird, I used the console to make it possible to become a vampire via Porphyllic Hemopholia. But when I became a vampire, my character's features were changed. Now that I've cured myself it's become even more obvious, his skin tone is lighter and his face is wider. After a second test, he looks exactly like he was before. Any thoughts/similar experiences on this? {{unsigned|67.65.251.241|21 December 2009}}

:See [[Oblivion:Vampirism#Bugs|this]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

== Vampirism ==

Does the vampirism effect actually turn the target into a vampire, or does it just create vampire facial features, or does it do nothing at all? Just wondering, going to make some mods involving fake vampirism (i.e. put a ring on and be vampire, take it off, no vampire. or a modified skeleton key script where it adds an ability with all the effects of being a 100% vampire for a different item.)
{{unsigned|67.234.243.42|05:06, 31 December 2009}}

:As "target" you mean by the "Player's Character?" If so then yes It does turn the player's character into a vampire. They can feed on sleeping NPCs, have some boosted stats, acquire damage from sun after awhile, becoming 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|resistant to desease]], and other stats.[[User:DEadstone|--DEadstone]]

== Bug Solution? ==

Does loading your previous save before vampirism and then loading your vampirism saved game from in-game permanantly get rid of the face changing bug, or must it be repeated every time? {{unsigned|206.212.155.56|19 January 2010}}
:It must be repeated each time you begin Oblivion. In my experience at least, any time a vampire-character game save is loaded from the main menu, it introduces the face-changing bug. It must be loaded from the in-game menu to avoid the bug. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 04:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

== Beast Vamps ==

I haven't become a vampire yet and I was wondering... Can Kajiits become a vampire???{{Unsigned|72.147.214.128|27 January 2010}}

:Yes, definitely. They will become paler and look older, and get the same red eyes as humans... which is a bit unsetling to be honest {{Unsigned|192.132.64.2|15 February 2010}}

== argonians, redguards, etc. ==

What about races who can't get disease? Can they still get the vampire disease? Argonians and Redguards can't get diseases, and I think there might be another race too. I want to become a vampire but my character is a Redguard.
[[Special:Contributions/67.32.207.96|67.32.207.96]] 21:40, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

: I seem to recall reading about Porphyric Hemophilia having a bug (or maybe on purpose) that makes it byass disease resistence. Easiest way to figure it out would to pick Argonian and let a vampire wail on you. {{unsigned|Catmaniac66|1 March 2010}}

::[[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]], [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]]s, [[Oblivion:Bosmer|Bosmer]], and [[Oblivion:Redguard|Redguard]]s all have 75% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|disease resistance]], which means it's less likely but still possible to contract [[Oblivion:Porphyric Hemophilia|Porphyric Hemophilia]], regardless of any "bypass"ing. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 16:37, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

When I Last Checked, The scripting for Porphyric Hemophilia allows it to completely bypass any disease resistance. Even with 200% disease resistance you could still catch it. I believe that this was put in so the Vincent Valchene could give it to you without fail in the dark gift quest. {{Unsigned|92.10.87.56|14 June 2010}}

== Becoming a vampire after curing Porphyric Hemophilia. ==

It might be notable that you can become a vampire again if you cured during the 3 day period when you first catch Porphyric Hemophilia by cure disease potions, spells etc. Unless I've encountered a bug or glitch. [[User:Jammy-182|Jammy-182]] 17:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:No, you cannot become a Vampire again once you are cured. I think you're confusing Porphyric Hemophilia the ''disease'' and Vampirism. After you cure Vampirism you can still catch the disease, however, the disease will not turn you into a Vampire a second time or third time ect.--[[Special:Contributions/12.107.122.230|12.107.122.230]] 20:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::No, Jammy is right, because you never actually had the disease Vampirism, just Porphyric Hemophelia, which turns you into a vampire. You can get Porphyric Hemophelia a million times, as long as it never matures into Vampirism.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 20:19, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Arch-Mage Matt is correct. Before the 3 day period has passed, one is not a vampire. Therefore, one can treat the Porphyric Hemophilia with a Cure Disease effect. Since one was never a vampire, the script that prohibits future vampirism is not activated. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 20:27, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::::My apologies, I misread what he said. Sorry.--[[Special:Contributions/12.107.122.230|12.107.122.230]] 20:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::::No worries. The information you provided is still accurate - after curing vampirism, one cannot become a vampire again. However, curing Porphyric Hemophilia can occur indefinitely. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 20:30, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

~I got myself in a glich somehow, im an argonian male and i have all vampire attributes, and everyone's scared of me ( wont talk back to me ) but i dont look it, i cant feed, or cure it. any clues........ email me at Zack.fair.ffadc@gmail.com~

== does vampire change argornian appeerince? ==

hi i was just wondering if being a vamprire changes a argornians apeerince?(i know that it will make ther face changg but i'm talking about their eyes because they're already red and i'm not planing on becoming a vampire any time soon so i can't tell you!)[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:38, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

umm...does anybody know if it changes your eyes?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 23:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Having been an Argonian vampire, I can say this from experience. However, the Argonian gains light red or pinkish HUMAN eyes. It can be a bit...creepy. [[Special:Contributions/207.69.137.10|207.69.137.10]] 00:03, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

ok thanks!--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 00:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

== Shopkeepers who hate vampires. ==

Well, does anyone think we should have a list of all the shopkeepers who won't deal with a maxed out vamp? {{unsigned|Jean-Velejeanne|20 March 2010}}

:I don't think so. It would be pointless, as when you're at 100% vampire I don't think anyone but the Dark Brotherhood/Black Hand will talk to you anyways. [[Special:Contributions/75.219.139.45|75.219.139.45]] 22:26, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

::I agree its pointless :P --[[User:Kri-Dar|Kri-Dar]] 22:40, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

:::If you find a shopkeeper who ''will'' deal with you (apart from [[Oblivion:M'raaj-Dar|M'raaj-Dar]] and his replacement), that would be worth mentioning. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:08, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:Many NPCs, not just shopkeepers, will avoid talking to you. This can actually be taken care of by a Greater Power that you get when you become a vampire called "Vampire's Seduction". Or, if you have the means to create your own spells, simply make a spell that charms 100 pts for 1 second, and cast it on anyone who won't talk to you. So far, I haven't found anyone on which this doesn't work. [[User:Ghost Host|Ghost Host]] 14:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

~ just putting in my two cents, im 100% vampire, all shopkeeprs talk to me (with exception of roaming keepers and people you buy stuff for frostcraig, deepscorn hollow and the theivs den), all guards do, most NCP's wont talk to me, but its odd ...im not hurt by sunlight, have all attributes, cant/wont let me drink blood, and i cant cure myself, im sure im in a glich but im not sure how to get out of it.~

== Khajiit bug: White burned Brown?! ==

I found a bug that has occurred every time I've played as a Khajiit. I always make the skin white, but when I get turned into a vampire, the skin returned to it's default color of brown. Does anyone know why?[[User:Mortono|Mortono]] 18:25, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I believe the game is set to turn the character to the 'paler' brown/yellow color that comes with being a vampire; it ignores your actual color completely. This happens with my white Argonians as well. [[Special:Contributions/75.219.76.220|75.219.76.220]] 01:56, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Would it happen to my blue argonian as well? If so i would have to renounce to vampirism...
and also what if I cure it after? Would it turn back to my normal blue or would it go to default red?

== Differences from Morrowind? ==

Does being a Vampire still have the penalty of being unable to restore health on sleeping? If so, does waiting restore any health? Also, does feeding restore any health, or does it merely affect what stage of Vampirism your character has? [[User:Mathiusdragoon|Mathiusdragoon]] 12:37, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm...not being a vampire in either of the games i can't give a steady answer but i think that your hleath will regenarate and feeding won't heal you cause it isn't a spell but i'm not sure that's correct thow--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 22:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

You can recover health normally when you sleep, and wait. Feeding does not restore health, but brings down the vampirism level.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 23:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

~~Except when you are in the sun in stage two +, of course.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 23:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== Can you duplicate ??? ==

Hey I was wondering if I could duplicate items for this quest. You need 5 grand soul gems to start this quest and I only have 3 so if I duplicate grand soul gems using the duplication glitch will Melisda accept them?

:yeah probly but i've never done the quest but there dosn't seem to be any thing that wouldn't alow it--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 13:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

: you can, you need to buy or get at least 3 of any 1 scroll. Double click or tap the scroll and then drop the item you want to duplicate. but u can only duplicate 1 at a time. So drop 2 of your gems then double click the scroll then drop the 1 remaining soul gem and there should be more on the ground ! : ) [Your welcome. Tim]

Will the arrow glitch also do it? ([[User:Arny|Arny]] 13:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC))

:yeah i don't really know why the other person put that there but if you have some patchs the arrow glitch won't work and you'll have to use scroll one--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 15:05, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

:no im on 360 with no patches and the arrow glitch works so Ill use that [[User:Arny|Arny]] 08:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

:Just a little side note on the duplication glitch- You don't -have- to drop what you're duplicating until you only have one, unless you have more of the item than the scrolls you use to duplicate it. Otherwise you'll just get the same amount of the stated item + the extras you're still carrying. EX: Duping 3 Soul Gems with 20 Scrolls = 22 Soul Gems. [[User: anonymous|anonymous]] 11:20, 2 July 2010

I am positive she accepts the soul gems from scroll/arrow duplication as I have done it in the past,she accepts them. I just never finished the quest due to having PS3 GOTY. :\. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 17:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== moved ==

''Owners of the PS3 GOTY have no way to cure vampirism, because the witch will not accept bloodgrass, no matter how much you have, or where you get it from. this can end up ruining your game if your not absolutely sure you want to remain a vampire forever.''

i recently removed this because it seems unlikely because there's people who did this quest on ps3--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 20:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Put it back then. Just because there are workarounds doesn't mean the glitch doesn't exist. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 16:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:no like the reason i moved it is because it probly just happend to this one person because if nobody could do it then bethasda would release a patch ojn the new games--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 16:28, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::It happens to every person using the PS3 Game of the Year edition, and Bethesda are an incompetent developer when it comes to quality assurance. I think that several years of repeated incidents are a bit more trustworthy than an assumption that starts with 'probably'. If it was a 'one-off' glitch it wouldn't be here. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 17:10, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:ok then well if this is a wide known problem i'd like to here if any one else had this problem of not being able to do this quest--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Bethesda is not an incompetent developer at the time the ps3 was a new console for which they had never programmed before you cant expect it to be perfect, maybe if they made it again today it wouldn't be that bad and would have the same glitches as the 360 --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 17:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Fair point Arny, until you consider that Bethesda were not the lead dev on the PS3 port, and that the PC versions used to have this bug before a patch. However Gum, I must stress that this is a VERY common problem. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 17:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::::GUM I dont have the ps3 version but ive heard all over the internet about this bug so I think it exists --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 17:18, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::::: It most difinitely exist. That is why there is a whole [[Oblivion:Vampire_Cure#PS3_GotY_Vampirism_Cure_Notes|section]] dedicated to the subject. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:21, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:oh ok then if it's on that page then why do we need it here?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:: We do not need it here. This is a page about Vampirism in general, while the bug is related to the Vampire Cure quest. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:::But with that said, I think it would still be well-suited to this page. If a PS3 owner looks at this page, reads it through and considers it would be good to be a vampire, then they wouldn't be aware of the bug unless they read about it on the quest's page. Just my own thoughts but I'd say it's kind of necessary to list what's arguably the worst thing about vampirism on a page about it. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 20:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::::He's right there are several bugs in vampirism and this could be added to warn ps3 owners I could Wright a list of bugs right now --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 19:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::It's standard policy not to duplicate material across pages. In this case, the bug is to do with the '''quest''' so it gets mentioned there. It isn't a bug with vampirism, so there's no reason for it to be here. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 04:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== 100% Resistance to disease? I don't think so... ==

I just contracted Astral Vapours from a Zombie in [[Oblivion:The Old Way|The Old Way]], the only problem is that
I'm a high elf vampire, my natural disease resistance is 75% and add the 100% from being a vampire, I really shouldn't of contracted this disease should I? If you don't believe me I'll upload a picture of my active effects page, I play on the Xbox 360, The disease isn't an inconvenience I can cure it right now if I wanted to but I just want to know how the hell I contracted it...--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 13:23, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:Maybe you got hit with a weakness to disease (if there is) spell. I know with my arogonian vampire i somehow managed to get the same disease. perhaps theres different levels of diseases, not in the morrowind sense though, kind of link strength. So you would need a higher resistance (perhaps even over 100) to protect from. With my argonian vampire ive managed to get astral vapors and rock joint [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:: If you can't do maths : 75 + 100 = 175% That's my total spell resistance. And The only Weakness to disease spells are "Weakness to Disease 25%" which still gives me 150% resistance, if you got the same disease too maybe Astral Vapours isn't affected by the 100% resistance caused by vampirism? Oh and Zombies can't cast spells... So I wasn't affected by a weakness spell..--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 13:50, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Try reading the last part of my last post, I was suggesting that different diseases had different "strengths" but not like in morrowing. Maybe a higher "strength" disease would require higher resistance. argonians have 75 or 100 resist, vampires have 100 and my vampire argonian has managed to get both rock joint and astral vapors on stage 1 vampirisim. maybe that has something to do with it... stages... [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 14:02, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::: Diseases don't have "strengths" though, if they did it would be on their [[Oblivion:Diseases|PAGE]]--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 14:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::Speaking of the page I looked on the "bugs" section and I found "Astral Vapors ignores disease resistance. Characters with 100% Resist Disease and 100% Resist Magic (eliminating the possibility that a Weakness to Disease effect could be added) can be infected with Astral Vapors."
Seems I was right haha :P--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 14:06, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:Still doesnt explain how my argonian vampire (ill start addressing him by name:Silver-eye) got rockjoint... [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 14:10, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
::Weakness to disease, probably a spell that got you or something like that.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 22:29, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Astral vapors is similar to Porphyric Hemophilia in that it bypasses Disease resistance. See Below:
"unless you have the Unofficial Oblivion Patch installed, it bypasses disease resistance."
Sorry bud but you gotta get rid of it the old fashioned way (potions, scrolls, spells, altars etc.) {{Unsigned|92.10.87.56|14 June 2010}}

In a article, I cannot remember where, but it said specifically that vampirism is, quite literally, a unique disease of it's own, and is seperate from the Disease section, disite cure disease effects curing it, you cannot resist it at all. I cannot remember where it said this, but it said no matter what, a Resist Disease effect does not change your resistance to Vampirism-Related diseases AT ALL. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 18:43, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

: You mean Porphiric Haemophilia? Yes it's true that that disease cannot be stopped by resistance spells or abilities, as it was mentioned already on the discussion above.--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 19:32, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Masks ==
Here's a list of items that cover the face. Useful if you don't like your vampire face or abusing glitches. Please add more to the list! (Unconfirmed)
:Daedric Helmet
:Orcish Helmet
:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal
:Masque of Clavicus Vile
Sorry if my list is formatted wrong, slow connection right now. --[[User:Zander490|Zander490]] 18:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
:Confirmed list of Paper Bags: Masque of Clavicus Vile, Daedric Helmet, Dwarven Helmet, Gray Cowl of Nocturnal. Orcish helmets do cover the face, but not much. The Gray Cowl is the only real "mask" I know of in this game, so it stays. Hope this helps. --[[User:Zander490|Zander490]] 19:24, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

== Healing While Vampire ==

If you use a healing spell such as Heal 25 points for 6 seconds You are allowed to wait out in the sunlight however you Will die (I did after doing it for a few hours...)
You may also be able to fast travel but I'm not sure what would happen
Also my game won't load as i'm taking sun damage from that moment
anybody able to help with that?

I am very familiar with vampire characters and can shed some light on this topic. If your directly in sunlight then heal and fast travel, PROVIDED IT ALLOWS YOU TO FAST TRAVELL, You woulden't die, as fast travelling never damages you dispite the time of day as a vampire, but I would suggest waiting until night time to fast travell anyways. As for the corrupted save file, your only choice is to revert to a previous save, I have had that situation before, but perhaps with the console, I have no idea, I have this game for the PS3, So as far as the PS3/360 Format is concerned there is no saving a corrupt save file if it freezes in the loading process, to my knowledge. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 17:35, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== No change Limit? ==

I've noticed with Oblivion that when you become a vampire, it will not wait the three day waiting period before changing your vampire level as well as no wait after contracting the disease. So basically, i would contract the disease and when i went to go sleep, it would skip the sleep stage and make me a vampire immediatly. And after having vampirisim, it will advance to the next stage regardless of how long i sleep. (anywhere from 1hour to 24hours, but it will always change whenever i wake up)

I have tryed many vampire script fix mods and NONE of them fix this problem.

A little Help?

==Message to Rpeh==
I really dislike the way you are way too quick to dismiss ideas,...Take no offence, but dispite being usable once per day, having a level 37 DBH Speaker vampire I can easily say I rarely need to talk to NPCs, even though I AM Big on roleplaying. I usually only NEED To use it once per day, thus, I feel it was a legitimate editation and was uncalledfor when you undid it. PLEASE Try FIXING Ideas insted of just deleting them. For instance, you could also note that the Imperial Race is high on personality and speechcraft which can help offset the large disposition needed to speak to humanoids as a 100% vampire. Aditionally, the majority of the races in this game ARE Imperial, and thus will increase their disposition further to you. Again, please take no offence, but it is really something I think you should work on in the future, as I have seen MANY Good ideas with a solid foundatin be dismissed jsut because the original version was faulty, it had plenty of working room, and dispite this, was also deleted. Perhaps it needed revising, but it still brought up usable ideas, and if touched up upon, would of been very helpful to me when I first started vampiric characters, but since your a veteran here on UESP, I Suppose I will leave it off so you don't have to be bothered with re-deleting it, but I still disagree with it's deletion. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 17:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== Dark Elf Vampire post cure ==

So, I have a female Dark Elf and I was able to get the potion to cure her of Vampirism, however when I do cure her pretty much everything returns to normal except for the shape of her face. Like when she was a Vampire she still has...
-Small eyes
-Large nose
-Elongated face
pretty much every besides the wrinkles and color, and shaped no wear near to how I originally created her. I have read pretty much every where that everything should go back to normal. Do I need to do something more before I cure her?

Also, even after the cure my character still has Porphyric Hemophilia. Shouldn't that go away too?

I have the XB360 GOTY Ed.

You can only cure vampirism 3 days or less after being infected, otherwise it's perminant, as the quest in GOTY Edition makes the woman not accept Bloodgrass, making it impossible to finish. But i'm not sure if it'd unage you, seeming as Vampirism directly changes your age. (You age by 20 years), then again, i've never cured it because i've never been infected unintentionally, and I too have GOTY (For PS3) And cannot cure it to find out. However if a "Potion of Cure Disease" dosen't cure Porphyric Hemophilia, you've ahd it for 4 or more days and are stuck with it. :{. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 14:10, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Vampirism

2010-07-27T17:38:53Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Can you duplicate ??? */

Oblivion talk:Vampirism

2010-07-27T17:35:35Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Healing While Vampire */

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||Apr 2006 - Oct 2007
|Archive 2||Nov 2007 - Jul 2008
|Archive 3||Aug 2008 - Nov 2009
}}

== Sun Damage ==
I have confirmed through some tests that sun damage actually follows this formula to a relatively good degree of accuracy (5% error)
SunDamageConstant(multiplier)=damage
where SunDamage Constant equals the number you see in your menu and
the multiplier is 2 when within one hour off 12:00 a.m., and goes down by (1/3) increments.
So the actual damage you take when 100% Vampire at 8:00 a.m. is (8)(.6667)= 5.33 damage a second
[[User:Nordickie|Nordickie]] 21:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== Advancing through stages using the console ==
Is it possible to advance through the stages of vampirism using the console (25, 50, 75, 100) and skipping the 3 day waiting period. To be clear I am NOT speaking of becoming a vampire. I am asking if one is already a vampire is it possible to use the console to quickly advance him back and forth through the stages. {{unsigned|98.240.210.20|02:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)}}

== Appearance Change ==
This is really weird, I used the console to make it possible to become a vampire via Porphyllic Hemopholia. But when I became a vampire, my character's features were changed. Now that I've cured myself it's become even more obvious, his skin tone is lighter and his face is wider. After a second test, he looks exactly like he was before. Any thoughts/similar experiences on this? {{unsigned|67.65.251.241|21 December 2009}}

:See [[Oblivion:Vampirism#Bugs|this]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

== Vampirism ==

Does the vampirism effect actually turn the target into a vampire, or does it just create vampire facial features, or does it do nothing at all? Just wondering, going to make some mods involving fake vampirism (i.e. put a ring on and be vampire, take it off, no vampire. or a modified skeleton key script where it adds an ability with all the effects of being a 100% vampire for a different item.)
{{unsigned|67.234.243.42|05:06, 31 December 2009}}

:As "target" you mean by the "Player's Character?" If so then yes It does turn the player's character into a vampire. They can feed on sleeping NPCs, have some boosted stats, acquire damage from sun after awhile, becoming 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|resistant to desease]], and other stats.[[User:DEadstone|--DEadstone]]

== Bug Solution? ==

Does loading your previous save before vampirism and then loading your vampirism saved game from in-game permanantly get rid of the face changing bug, or must it be repeated every time? {{unsigned|206.212.155.56|19 January 2010}}
:It must be repeated each time you begin Oblivion. In my experience at least, any time a vampire-character game save is loaded from the main menu, it introduces the face-changing bug. It must be loaded from the in-game menu to avoid the bug. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 04:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

== Beast Vamps ==

I haven't become a vampire yet and I was wondering... Can Kajiits become a vampire???{{Unsigned|72.147.214.128|27 January 2010}}

:Yes, definitely. They will become paler and look older, and get the same red eyes as humans... which is a bit unsetling to be honest {{Unsigned|192.132.64.2|15 February 2010}}

== argonians, redguards, etc. ==

What about races who can't get disease? Can they still get the vampire disease? Argonians and Redguards can't get diseases, and I think there might be another race too. I want to become a vampire but my character is a Redguard.
[[Special:Contributions/67.32.207.96|67.32.207.96]] 21:40, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

: I seem to recall reading about Porphyric Hemophilia having a bug (or maybe on purpose) that makes it byass disease resistence. Easiest way to figure it out would to pick Argonian and let a vampire wail on you. {{unsigned|Catmaniac66|1 March 2010}}

::[[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]], [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]]s, [[Oblivion:Bosmer|Bosmer]], and [[Oblivion:Redguard|Redguard]]s all have 75% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|disease resistance]], which means it's less likely but still possible to contract [[Oblivion:Porphyric Hemophilia|Porphyric Hemophilia]], regardless of any "bypass"ing. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 16:37, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

When I Last Checked, The scripting for Porphyric Hemophilia allows it to completely bypass any disease resistance. Even with 200% disease resistance you could still catch it. I believe that this was put in so the Vincent Valchene could give it to you without fail in the dark gift quest. {{Unsigned|92.10.87.56|14 June 2010}}

== Becoming a vampire after curing Porphyric Hemophilia. ==

It might be notable that you can become a vampire again if you cured during the 3 day period when you first catch Porphyric Hemophilia by cure disease potions, spells etc. Unless I've encountered a bug or glitch. [[User:Jammy-182|Jammy-182]] 17:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:No, you cannot become a Vampire again once you are cured. I think you're confusing Porphyric Hemophilia the ''disease'' and Vampirism. After you cure Vampirism you can still catch the disease, however, the disease will not turn you into a Vampire a second time or third time ect.--[[Special:Contributions/12.107.122.230|12.107.122.230]] 20:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::No, Jammy is right, because you never actually had the disease Vampirism, just Porphyric Hemophelia, which turns you into a vampire. You can get Porphyric Hemophelia a million times, as long as it never matures into Vampirism.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 20:19, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Arch-Mage Matt is correct. Before the 3 day period has passed, one is not a vampire. Therefore, one can treat the Porphyric Hemophilia with a Cure Disease effect. Since one was never a vampire, the script that prohibits future vampirism is not activated. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 20:27, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::::My apologies, I misread what he said. Sorry.--[[Special:Contributions/12.107.122.230|12.107.122.230]] 20:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::::No worries. The information you provided is still accurate - after curing vampirism, one cannot become a vampire again. However, curing Porphyric Hemophilia can occur indefinitely. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 20:30, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

~I got myself in a glich somehow, im an argonian male and i have all vampire attributes, and everyone's scared of me ( wont talk back to me ) but i dont look it, i cant feed, or cure it. any clues........ email me at Zack.fair.ffadc@gmail.com~

== does vampire change argornian appeerince? ==

hi i was just wondering if being a vamprire changes a argornians apeerince?(i know that it will make ther face changg but i'm talking about their eyes because they're already red and i'm not planing on becoming a vampire any time soon so i can't tell you!)[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:38, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

umm...does anybody know if it changes your eyes?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 23:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Having been an Argonian vampire, I can say this from experience. However, the Argonian gains light red or pinkish HUMAN eyes. It can be a bit...creepy. [[Special:Contributions/207.69.137.10|207.69.137.10]] 00:03, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

ok thanks!--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 00:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

== Shopkeepers who hate vampires. ==

Well, does anyone think we should have a list of all the shopkeepers who won't deal with a maxed out vamp? {{unsigned|Jean-Velejeanne|20 March 2010}}

:I don't think so. It would be pointless, as when you're at 100% vampire I don't think anyone but the Dark Brotherhood/Black Hand will talk to you anyways. [[Special:Contributions/75.219.139.45|75.219.139.45]] 22:26, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

::I agree its pointless :P --[[User:Kri-Dar|Kri-Dar]] 22:40, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

:::If you find a shopkeeper who ''will'' deal with you (apart from [[Oblivion:M'raaj-Dar|M'raaj-Dar]] and his replacement), that would be worth mentioning. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:08, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:Many NPCs, not just shopkeepers, will avoid talking to you. This can actually be taken care of by a Greater Power that you get when you become a vampire called "Vampire's Seduction". Or, if you have the means to create your own spells, simply make a spell that charms 100 pts for 1 second, and cast it on anyone who won't talk to you. So far, I haven't found anyone on which this doesn't work. [[User:Ghost Host|Ghost Host]] 14:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

~ just putting in my two cents, im 100% vampire, all shopkeeprs talk to me (with exception of roaming keepers and people you buy stuff for frostcraig, deepscorn hollow and the theivs den), all guards do, most NCP's wont talk to me, but its odd ...im not hurt by sunlight, have all attributes, cant/wont let me drink blood, and i cant cure myself, im sure im in a glich but im not sure how to get out of it.~

== Khajiit bug: White burned Brown?! ==

I found a bug that has occurred every time I've played as a Khajiit. I always make the skin white, but when I get turned into a vampire, the skin returned to it's default color of brown. Does anyone know why?[[User:Mortono|Mortono]] 18:25, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I believe the game is set to turn the character to the 'paler' brown/yellow color that comes with being a vampire; it ignores your actual color completely. This happens with my white Argonians as well. [[Special:Contributions/75.219.76.220|75.219.76.220]] 01:56, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Would it happen to my blue argonian as well? If so i would have to renounce to vampirism...
and also what if I cure it after? Would it turn back to my normal blue or would it go to default red?

== Differences from Morrowind? ==

Does being a Vampire still have the penalty of being unable to restore health on sleeping? If so, does waiting restore any health? Also, does feeding restore any health, or does it merely affect what stage of Vampirism your character has? [[User:Mathiusdragoon|Mathiusdragoon]] 12:37, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm...not being a vampire in either of the games i can't give a steady answer but i think that your hleath will regenarate and feeding won't heal you cause it isn't a spell but i'm not sure that's correct thow--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 22:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

You can recover health normally when you sleep, and wait. Feeding does not restore health, but brings down the vampirism level.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 23:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

~~Except when you are in the sun in stage two +, of course.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 23:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== Can you duplicate ??? ==

Hey I was wondering if I could duplicate items for this quest. You need 5 grand soul gems to start this quest and I only have 3 so if I duplicate grand soul gems using the duplication glitch will Melisda accept them?

:yeah probly but i've never done the quest but there dosn't seem to be any thing that wouldn't alow it--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 13:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

: you can, you need to buy or get at least 3 of any 1 scroll. Double click or tap the scroll and then drop the item you want to duplicate. but u can only duplicate 1 at a time. So drop 2 of your gems then double click the scroll then drop the 1 remaining soul gem and there should be more on the ground ! : ) [Your welcome. Tim]

Will the arrow glitch also do it? ([[User:Arny|Arny]] 13:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC))

:yeah i don't really know why the other person put that there but if you have some patchs the arrow glitch won't work and you'll have to use scroll one--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 15:05, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

:no im on 360 with no patches and the arrow glitch works so Ill use that [[User:Arny|Arny]] 08:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

:Just a little side note on the duplication glitch- You don't -have- to drop what you're duplicating until you only have one, unless you have more of the item than the scrolls you use to duplicate it. Otherwise you'll just get the same amount of the stated item + the extras you're still carrying. EX: Duping 3 Soul Gems with 20 Scrolls = 22 Soul Gems. [[User: anonymous|anonymous]] 11:20, 2 July 2010

== moved ==

''Owners of the PS3 GOTY have no way to cure vampirism, because the witch will not accept bloodgrass, no matter how much you have, or where you get it from. this can end up ruining your game if your not absolutely sure you want to remain a vampire forever.''

i recently removed this because it seems unlikely because there's people who did this quest on ps3--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 20:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Put it back then. Just because there are workarounds doesn't mean the glitch doesn't exist. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 16:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:no like the reason i moved it is because it probly just happend to this one person because if nobody could do it then bethasda would release a patch ojn the new games--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 16:28, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::It happens to every person using the PS3 Game of the Year edition, and Bethesda are an incompetent developer when it comes to quality assurance. I think that several years of repeated incidents are a bit more trustworthy than an assumption that starts with 'probably'. If it was a 'one-off' glitch it wouldn't be here. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 17:10, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:ok then well if this is a wide known problem i'd like to here if any one else had this problem of not being able to do this quest--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Bethesda is not an incompetent developer at the time the ps3 was a new console for which they had never programmed before you cant expect it to be perfect, maybe if they made it again today it wouldn't be that bad and would have the same glitches as the 360 --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 17:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Fair point Arny, until you consider that Bethesda were not the lead dev on the PS3 port, and that the PC versions used to have this bug before a patch. However Gum, I must stress that this is a VERY common problem. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 17:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::::GUM I dont have the ps3 version but ive heard all over the internet about this bug so I think it exists --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 17:18, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::::: It most difinitely exist. That is why there is a whole [[Oblivion:Vampire_Cure#PS3_GotY_Vampirism_Cure_Notes|section]] dedicated to the subject. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:21, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:oh ok then if it's on that page then why do we need it here?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:: We do not need it here. This is a page about Vampirism in general, while the bug is related to the Vampire Cure quest. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:::But with that said, I think it would still be well-suited to this page. If a PS3 owner looks at this page, reads it through and considers it would be good to be a vampire, then they wouldn't be aware of the bug unless they read about it on the quest's page. Just my own thoughts but I'd say it's kind of necessary to list what's arguably the worst thing about vampirism on a page about it. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 20:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::::He's right there are several bugs in vampirism and this could be added to warn ps3 owners I could Wright a list of bugs right now --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 19:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::It's standard policy not to duplicate material across pages. In this case, the bug is to do with the '''quest''' so it gets mentioned there. It isn't a bug with vampirism, so there's no reason for it to be here. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 04:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== 100% Resistance to disease? I don't think so... ==

I just contracted Astral Vapours from a Zombie in [[Oblivion:The Old Way|The Old Way]], the only problem is that
I'm a high elf vampire, my natural disease resistance is 75% and add the 100% from being a vampire, I really shouldn't of contracted this disease should I? If you don't believe me I'll upload a picture of my active effects page, I play on the Xbox 360, The disease isn't an inconvenience I can cure it right now if I wanted to but I just want to know how the hell I contracted it...--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 13:23, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:Maybe you got hit with a weakness to disease (if there is) spell. I know with my arogonian vampire i somehow managed to get the same disease. perhaps theres different levels of diseases, not in the morrowind sense though, kind of link strength. So you would need a higher resistance (perhaps even over 100) to protect from. With my argonian vampire ive managed to get astral vapors and rock joint [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:: If you can't do maths : 75 + 100 = 175% That's my total spell resistance. And The only Weakness to disease spells are "Weakness to Disease 25%" which still gives me 150% resistance, if you got the same disease too maybe Astral Vapours isn't affected by the 100% resistance caused by vampirism? Oh and Zombies can't cast spells... So I wasn't affected by a weakness spell..--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 13:50, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Try reading the last part of my last post, I was suggesting that different diseases had different "strengths" but not like in morrowing. Maybe a higher "strength" disease would require higher resistance. argonians have 75 or 100 resist, vampires have 100 and my vampire argonian has managed to get both rock joint and astral vapors on stage 1 vampirisim. maybe that has something to do with it... stages... [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 14:02, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::: Diseases don't have "strengths" though, if they did it would be on their [[Oblivion:Diseases|PAGE]]--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 14:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::Speaking of the page I looked on the "bugs" section and I found "Astral Vapors ignores disease resistance. Characters with 100% Resist Disease and 100% Resist Magic (eliminating the possibility that a Weakness to Disease effect could be added) can be infected with Astral Vapors."
Seems I was right haha :P--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 14:06, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:Still doesnt explain how my argonian vampire (ill start addressing him by name:Silver-eye) got rockjoint... [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 14:10, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
::Weakness to disease, probably a spell that got you or something like that.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 22:29, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Astral vapors is similar to Porphyric Hemophilia in that it bypasses Disease resistance. See Below:
"unless you have the Unofficial Oblivion Patch installed, it bypasses disease resistance."
Sorry bud but you gotta get rid of it the old fashioned way (potions, scrolls, spells, altars etc.) {{Unsigned|92.10.87.56|14 June 2010}}

In a article, I cannot remember where, but it said specifically that vampirism is, quite literally, a unique disease of it's own, and is seperate from the Disease section, disite cure disease effects curing it, you cannot resist it at all. I cannot remember where it said this, but it said no matter what, a Resist Disease effect does not change your resistance to Vampirism-Related diseases AT ALL. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 18:43, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

: You mean Porphiric Haemophilia? Yes it's true that that disease cannot be stopped by resistance spells or abilities, as it was mentioned already on the discussion above.--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 19:32, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Masks ==
Here's a list of items that cover the face. Useful if you don't like your vampire face or abusing glitches. Please add more to the list! (Unconfirmed)
:Daedric Helmet
:Orcish Helmet
:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal
:Masque of Clavicus Vile
Sorry if my list is formatted wrong, slow connection right now. --[[User:Zander490|Zander490]] 18:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
:Confirmed list of Paper Bags: Masque of Clavicus Vile, Daedric Helmet, Dwarven Helmet, Gray Cowl of Nocturnal. Orcish helmets do cover the face, but not much. The Gray Cowl is the only real "mask" I know of in this game, so it stays. Hope this helps. --[[User:Zander490|Zander490]] 19:24, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

== Healing While Vampire ==

If you use a healing spell such as Heal 25 points for 6 seconds You are allowed to wait out in the sunlight however you Will die (I did after doing it for a few hours...)
You may also be able to fast travel but I'm not sure what would happen
Also my game won't load as i'm taking sun damage from that moment
anybody able to help with that?

I am very familiar with vampire characters and can shed some light on this topic. If your directly in sunlight then heal and fast travel, PROVIDED IT ALLOWS YOU TO FAST TRAVELL, You woulden't die, as fast travelling never damages you dispite the time of day as a vampire, but I would suggest waiting until night time to fast travell anyways. As for the corrupted save file, your only choice is to revert to a previous save, I have had that situation before, but perhaps with the console, I have no idea, I have this game for the PS3, So as far as the PS3/360 Format is concerned there is no saving a corrupt save file if it freezes in the loading process, to my knowledge. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 17:35, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== No change Limit? ==

I've noticed with Oblivion that when you become a vampire, it will not wait the three day waiting period before changing your vampire level as well as no wait after contracting the disease. So basically, i would contract the disease and when i went to go sleep, it would skip the sleep stage and make me a vampire immediatly. And after having vampirisim, it will advance to the next stage regardless of how long i sleep. (anywhere from 1hour to 24hours, but it will always change whenever i wake up)

I have tryed many vampire script fix mods and NONE of them fix this problem.

A little Help?

==Message to Rpeh==
I really dislike the way you are way too quick to dismiss ideas,...Take no offence, but dispite being usable once per day, having a level 37 DBH Speaker vampire I can easily say I rarely need to talk to NPCs, even though I AM Big on roleplaying. I usually only NEED To use it once per day, thus, I feel it was a legitimate editation and was uncalledfor when you undid it. PLEASE Try FIXING Ideas insted of just deleting them. For instance, you could also note that the Imperial Race is high on personality and speechcraft which can help offset the large disposition needed to speak to humanoids as a 100% vampire. Aditionally, the majority of the races in this game ARE Imperial, and thus will increase their disposition further to you. Again, please take no offence, but it is really something I think you should work on in the future, as I have seen MANY Good ideas with a solid foundatin be dismissed jsut because the original version was faulty, it had plenty of working room, and dispite this, was also deleted. Perhaps it needed revising, but it still brought up usable ideas, and if touched up upon, would of been very helpful to me when I first started vampiric characters, but since your a veteran here on UESP, I Suppose I will leave it off so you don't have to be bothered with re-deleting it, but I still disagree with it's deletion. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 17:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Vampirism

2010-07-27T17:31:48Z

Roleplayer242621:

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||Apr 2006 - Oct 2007
|Archive 2||Nov 2007 - Jul 2008
|Archive 3||Aug 2008 - Nov 2009
}}

== Sun Damage ==
I have confirmed through some tests that sun damage actually follows this formula to a relatively good degree of accuracy (5% error)
SunDamageConstant(multiplier)=damage
where SunDamage Constant equals the number you see in your menu and
the multiplier is 2 when within one hour off 12:00 a.m., and goes down by (1/3) increments.
So the actual damage you take when 100% Vampire at 8:00 a.m. is (8)(.6667)= 5.33 damage a second
[[User:Nordickie|Nordickie]] 21:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== Advancing through stages using the console ==
Is it possible to advance through the stages of vampirism using the console (25, 50, 75, 100) and skipping the 3 day waiting period. To be clear I am NOT speaking of becoming a vampire. I am asking if one is already a vampire is it possible to use the console to quickly advance him back and forth through the stages. {{unsigned|98.240.210.20|02:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)}}

== Appearance Change ==
This is really weird, I used the console to make it possible to become a vampire via Porphyllic Hemopholia. But when I became a vampire, my character's features were changed. Now that I've cured myself it's become even more obvious, his skin tone is lighter and his face is wider. After a second test, he looks exactly like he was before. Any thoughts/similar experiences on this? {{unsigned|67.65.251.241|21 December 2009}}

:See [[Oblivion:Vampirism#Bugs|this]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

== Vampirism ==

Does the vampirism effect actually turn the target into a vampire, or does it just create vampire facial features, or does it do nothing at all? Just wondering, going to make some mods involving fake vampirism (i.e. put a ring on and be vampire, take it off, no vampire. or a modified skeleton key script where it adds an ability with all the effects of being a 100% vampire for a different item.)
{{unsigned|67.234.243.42|05:06, 31 December 2009}}

:As "target" you mean by the "Player's Character?" If so then yes It does turn the player's character into a vampire. They can feed on sleeping NPCs, have some boosted stats, acquire damage from sun after awhile, becoming 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|resistant to desease]], and other stats.[[User:DEadstone|--DEadstone]]

== Bug Solution? ==

Does loading your previous save before vampirism and then loading your vampirism saved game from in-game permanantly get rid of the face changing bug, or must it be repeated every time? {{unsigned|206.212.155.56|19 January 2010}}
:It must be repeated each time you begin Oblivion. In my experience at least, any time a vampire-character game save is loaded from the main menu, it introduces the face-changing bug. It must be loaded from the in-game menu to avoid the bug. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 04:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

== Beast Vamps ==

I haven't become a vampire yet and I was wondering... Can Kajiits become a vampire???{{Unsigned|72.147.214.128|27 January 2010}}

:Yes, definitely. They will become paler and look older, and get the same red eyes as humans... which is a bit unsetling to be honest {{Unsigned|192.132.64.2|15 February 2010}}

== argonians, redguards, etc. ==

What about races who can't get disease? Can they still get the vampire disease? Argonians and Redguards can't get diseases, and I think there might be another race too. I want to become a vampire but my character is a Redguard.
[[Special:Contributions/67.32.207.96|67.32.207.96]] 21:40, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

: I seem to recall reading about Porphyric Hemophilia having a bug (or maybe on purpose) that makes it byass disease resistence. Easiest way to figure it out would to pick Argonian and let a vampire wail on you. {{unsigned|Catmaniac66|1 March 2010}}

::[[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]], [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]]s, [[Oblivion:Bosmer|Bosmer]], and [[Oblivion:Redguard|Redguard]]s all have 75% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|disease resistance]], which means it's less likely but still possible to contract [[Oblivion:Porphyric Hemophilia|Porphyric Hemophilia]], regardless of any "bypass"ing. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 16:37, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

When I Last Checked, The scripting for Porphyric Hemophilia allows it to completely bypass any disease resistance. Even with 200% disease resistance you could still catch it. I believe that this was put in so the Vincent Valchene could give it to you without fail in the dark gift quest. {{Unsigned|92.10.87.56|14 June 2010}}

== Becoming a vampire after curing Porphyric Hemophilia. ==

It might be notable that you can become a vampire again if you cured during the 3 day period when you first catch Porphyric Hemophilia by cure disease potions, spells etc. Unless I've encountered a bug or glitch. [[User:Jammy-182|Jammy-182]] 17:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:No, you cannot become a Vampire again once you are cured. I think you're confusing Porphyric Hemophilia the ''disease'' and Vampirism. After you cure Vampirism you can still catch the disease, however, the disease will not turn you into a Vampire a second time or third time ect.--[[Special:Contributions/12.107.122.230|12.107.122.230]] 20:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::No, Jammy is right, because you never actually had the disease Vampirism, just Porphyric Hemophelia, which turns you into a vampire. You can get Porphyric Hemophelia a million times, as long as it never matures into Vampirism.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 20:19, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Arch-Mage Matt is correct. Before the 3 day period has passed, one is not a vampire. Therefore, one can treat the Porphyric Hemophilia with a Cure Disease effect. Since one was never a vampire, the script that prohibits future vampirism is not activated. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 20:27, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::::My apologies, I misread what he said. Sorry.--[[Special:Contributions/12.107.122.230|12.107.122.230]] 20:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::::No worries. The information you provided is still accurate - after curing vampirism, one cannot become a vampire again. However, curing Porphyric Hemophilia can occur indefinitely. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 20:30, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

~I got myself in a glich somehow, im an argonian male and i have all vampire attributes, and everyone's scared of me ( wont talk back to me ) but i dont look it, i cant feed, or cure it. any clues........ email me at Zack.fair.ffadc@gmail.com~

== does vampire change argornian appeerince? ==

hi i was just wondering if being a vamprire changes a argornians apeerince?(i know that it will make ther face changg but i'm talking about their eyes because they're already red and i'm not planing on becoming a vampire any time soon so i can't tell you!)[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:38, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

umm...does anybody know if it changes your eyes?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 23:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Having been an Argonian vampire, I can say this from experience. However, the Argonian gains light red or pinkish HUMAN eyes. It can be a bit...creepy. [[Special:Contributions/207.69.137.10|207.69.137.10]] 00:03, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

ok thanks!--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 00:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

== Shopkeepers who hate vampires. ==

Well, does anyone think we should have a list of all the shopkeepers who won't deal with a maxed out vamp? {{unsigned|Jean-Velejeanne|20 March 2010}}

:I don't think so. It would be pointless, as when you're at 100% vampire I don't think anyone but the Dark Brotherhood/Black Hand will talk to you anyways. [[Special:Contributions/75.219.139.45|75.219.139.45]] 22:26, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

::I agree its pointless :P --[[User:Kri-Dar|Kri-Dar]] 22:40, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

:::If you find a shopkeeper who ''will'' deal with you (apart from [[Oblivion:M'raaj-Dar|M'raaj-Dar]] and his replacement), that would be worth mentioning. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:08, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:Many NPCs, not just shopkeepers, will avoid talking to you. This can actually be taken care of by a Greater Power that you get when you become a vampire called "Vampire's Seduction". Or, if you have the means to create your own spells, simply make a spell that charms 100 pts for 1 second, and cast it on anyone who won't talk to you. So far, I haven't found anyone on which this doesn't work. [[User:Ghost Host|Ghost Host]] 14:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

~ just putting in my two cents, im 100% vampire, all shopkeeprs talk to me (with exception of roaming keepers and people you buy stuff for frostcraig, deepscorn hollow and the theivs den), all guards do, most NCP's wont talk to me, but its odd ...im not hurt by sunlight, have all attributes, cant/wont let me drink blood, and i cant cure myself, im sure im in a glich but im not sure how to get out of it.~

== Khajiit bug: White burned Brown?! ==

I found a bug that has occurred every time I've played as a Khajiit. I always make the skin white, but when I get turned into a vampire, the skin returned to it's default color of brown. Does anyone know why?[[User:Mortono|Mortono]] 18:25, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I believe the game is set to turn the character to the 'paler' brown/yellow color that comes with being a vampire; it ignores your actual color completely. This happens with my white Argonians as well. [[Special:Contributions/75.219.76.220|75.219.76.220]] 01:56, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Would it happen to my blue argonian as well? If so i would have to renounce to vampirism...
and also what if I cure it after? Would it turn back to my normal blue or would it go to default red?

== Differences from Morrowind? ==

Does being a Vampire still have the penalty of being unable to restore health on sleeping? If so, does waiting restore any health? Also, does feeding restore any health, or does it merely affect what stage of Vampirism your character has? [[User:Mathiusdragoon|Mathiusdragoon]] 12:37, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm...not being a vampire in either of the games i can't give a steady answer but i think that your hleath will regenarate and feeding won't heal you cause it isn't a spell but i'm not sure that's correct thow--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 22:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

You can recover health normally when you sleep, and wait. Feeding does not restore health, but brings down the vampirism level.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 23:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

~~Except when you are in the sun in stage two +, of course.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 23:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== Can you duplicate ??? ==

Hey I was wondering if I could duplicate items for this quest. You need 5 grand soul gems to start this quest and I only have 3 so if I duplicate grand soul gems using the duplication glitch will Melisda accept them?

:yeah probly but i've never done the quest but there dosn't seem to be any thing that wouldn't alow it--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 13:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

: you can, you need to buy or get at least 3 of any 1 scroll. Double click or tap the scroll and then drop the item you want to duplicate. but u can only duplicate 1 at a time. So drop 2 of your gems then double click the scroll then drop the 1 remaining soul gem and there should be more on the ground ! : ) [Your welcome. Tim]

Will the arrow glitch also do it? ([[User:Arny|Arny]] 13:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC))

:yeah i don't really know why the other person put that there but if you have some patchs the arrow glitch won't work and you'll have to use scroll one--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 15:05, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

:no im on 360 with no patches and the arrow glitch works so Ill use that [[User:Arny|Arny]] 08:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

:Just a little side note on the duplication glitch- You don't -have- to drop what you're duplicating until you only have one, unless you have more of the item than the scrolls you use to duplicate it. Otherwise you'll just get the same amount of the stated item + the extras you're still carrying. EX: Duping 3 Soul Gems with 20 Scrolls = 22 Soul Gems. [[User: anonymous|anonymous]] 11:20, 2 July 2010

== moved ==

''Owners of the PS3 GOTY have no way to cure vampirism, because the witch will not accept bloodgrass, no matter how much you have, or where you get it from. this can end up ruining your game if your not absolutely sure you want to remain a vampire forever.''

i recently removed this because it seems unlikely because there's people who did this quest on ps3--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 20:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Put it back then. Just because there are workarounds doesn't mean the glitch doesn't exist. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 16:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:no like the reason i moved it is because it probly just happend to this one person because if nobody could do it then bethasda would release a patch ojn the new games--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 16:28, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::It happens to every person using the PS3 Game of the Year edition, and Bethesda are an incompetent developer when it comes to quality assurance. I think that several years of repeated incidents are a bit more trustworthy than an assumption that starts with 'probably'. If it was a 'one-off' glitch it wouldn't be here. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 17:10, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:ok then well if this is a wide known problem i'd like to here if any one else had this problem of not being able to do this quest--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Bethesda is not an incompetent developer at the time the ps3 was a new console for which they had never programmed before you cant expect it to be perfect, maybe if they made it again today it wouldn't be that bad and would have the same glitches as the 360 --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 17:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Fair point Arny, until you consider that Bethesda were not the lead dev on the PS3 port, and that the PC versions used to have this bug before a patch. However Gum, I must stress that this is a VERY common problem. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 17:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::::GUM I dont have the ps3 version but ive heard all over the internet about this bug so I think it exists --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 17:18, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::::: It most difinitely exist. That is why there is a whole [[Oblivion:Vampire_Cure#PS3_GotY_Vampirism_Cure_Notes|section]] dedicated to the subject. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:21, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:oh ok then if it's on that page then why do we need it here?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:: We do not need it here. This is a page about Vampirism in general, while the bug is related to the Vampire Cure quest. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:::But with that said, I think it would still be well-suited to this page. If a PS3 owner looks at this page, reads it through and considers it would be good to be a vampire, then they wouldn't be aware of the bug unless they read about it on the quest's page. Just my own thoughts but I'd say it's kind of necessary to list what's arguably the worst thing about vampirism on a page about it. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 20:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::::He's right there are several bugs in vampirism and this could be added to warn ps3 owners I could Wright a list of bugs right now --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 19:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::It's standard policy not to duplicate material across pages. In this case, the bug is to do with the '''quest''' so it gets mentioned there. It isn't a bug with vampirism, so there's no reason for it to be here. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 04:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== 100% Resistance to disease? I don't think so... ==

I just contracted Astral Vapours from a Zombie in [[Oblivion:The Old Way|The Old Way]], the only problem is that
I'm a high elf vampire, my natural disease resistance is 75% and add the 100% from being a vampire, I really shouldn't of contracted this disease should I? If you don't believe me I'll upload a picture of my active effects page, I play on the Xbox 360, The disease isn't an inconvenience I can cure it right now if I wanted to but I just want to know how the hell I contracted it...--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 13:23, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:Maybe you got hit with a weakness to disease (if there is) spell. I know with my arogonian vampire i somehow managed to get the same disease. perhaps theres different levels of diseases, not in the morrowind sense though, kind of link strength. So you would need a higher resistance (perhaps even over 100) to protect from. With my argonian vampire ive managed to get astral vapors and rock joint [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:: If you can't do maths : 75 + 100 = 175% That's my total spell resistance. And The only Weakness to disease spells are "Weakness to Disease 25%" which still gives me 150% resistance, if you got the same disease too maybe Astral Vapours isn't affected by the 100% resistance caused by vampirism? Oh and Zombies can't cast spells... So I wasn't affected by a weakness spell..--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 13:50, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Try reading the last part of my last post, I was suggesting that different diseases had different "strengths" but not like in morrowing. Maybe a higher "strength" disease would require higher resistance. argonians have 75 or 100 resist, vampires have 100 and my vampire argonian has managed to get both rock joint and astral vapors on stage 1 vampirisim. maybe that has something to do with it... stages... [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 14:02, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::: Diseases don't have "strengths" though, if they did it would be on their [[Oblivion:Diseases|PAGE]]--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 14:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::Speaking of the page I looked on the "bugs" section and I found "Astral Vapors ignores disease resistance. Characters with 100% Resist Disease and 100% Resist Magic (eliminating the possibility that a Weakness to Disease effect could be added) can be infected with Astral Vapors."
Seems I was right haha :P--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 14:06, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:Still doesnt explain how my argonian vampire (ill start addressing him by name:Silver-eye) got rockjoint... [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 14:10, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
::Weakness to disease, probably a spell that got you or something like that.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 22:29, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Astral vapors is similar to Porphyric Hemophilia in that it bypasses Disease resistance. See Below:
"unless you have the Unofficial Oblivion Patch installed, it bypasses disease resistance."
Sorry bud but you gotta get rid of it the old fashioned way (potions, scrolls, spells, altars etc.) {{Unsigned|92.10.87.56|14 June 2010}}

In a article, I cannot remember where, but it said specifically that vampirism is, quite literally, a unique disease of it's own, and is seperate from the Disease section, disite cure disease effects curing it, you cannot resist it at all. I cannot remember where it said this, but it said no matter what, a Resist Disease effect does not change your resistance to Vampirism-Related diseases AT ALL. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 18:43, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

: You mean Porphiric Haemophilia? Yes it's true that that disease cannot be stopped by resistance spells or abilities, as it was mentioned already on the discussion above.--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 19:32, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Masks ==
Here's a list of items that cover the face. Useful if you don't like your vampire face or abusing glitches. Please add more to the list! (Unconfirmed)
:Daedric Helmet
:Orcish Helmet
:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal
:Masque of Clavicus Vile
Sorry if my list is formatted wrong, slow connection right now. --[[User:Zander490|Zander490]] 18:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
:Confirmed list of Paper Bags: Masque of Clavicus Vile, Daedric Helmet, Dwarven Helmet, Gray Cowl of Nocturnal. Orcish helmets do cover the face, but not much. The Gray Cowl is the only real "mask" I know of in this game, so it stays. Hope this helps. --[[User:Zander490|Zander490]] 19:24, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

== Healing While Vampire ==

If you use a healing spell such as Heal 25 points for 6 seconds You are allowed to wait out in the sunlight however you Will die (I did after doing it for a few hours...)
You may also be able to fast travel but I'm not sure what would happen
Also my game won't load as i'm taking sun damage from that moment
anybody able to help with that?

== No change Limit? ==

I've noticed with Oblivion that when you become a vampire, it will not wait the three day waiting period before changing your vampire level as well as no wait after contracting the disease. So basically, i would contract the disease and when i went to go sleep, it would skip the sleep stage and make me a vampire immediatly. And after having vampirisim, it will advance to the next stage regardless of how long i sleep. (anywhere from 1hour to 24hours, but it will always change whenever i wake up)

I have tryed many vampire script fix mods and NONE of them fix this problem.

A little Help?

==Message to Rpeh==
I really dislike the way you are way too quick to dismiss ideas,...Take no offence, but dispite being usable once per day, having a level 37 DBH Speaker vampire I can easily say I rarely need to talk to NPCs, even though I AM Big on roleplaying. I usually only NEED To use it once per day, thus, I feel it was a legitimate editation and was uncalledfor when you undid it. PLEASE Try FIXING Ideas insted of just deleting them. For instance, you could also note that the Imperial Race is high on personality and speechcraft which can help offset the large disposition needed to speak to humanoids as a 100% vampire. Aditionally, the majority of the races in this game ARE Imperial, and thus will increase their disposition further to you. Again, please take no offence, but it is really something I think you should work on in the future, as I have seen MANY Good ideas with a solid foundatin be dismissed jsut because the original version was faulty, it had plenty of working room, and dispite this, was also deleted. Perhaps it needed revising, but it still brought up usable ideas, and if touched up upon, would of been very helpful to me when I first started vampiric characters, but since your a veteran here on UESP, I Suppose I will leave it off so you don't have to be bothered with re-deleting it, but I still disagree with it's deletion. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 17:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Vampirism

2010-07-25T18:43:03Z

Roleplayer242621: /* 100% Resistance to disease? I don't think so... */

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||Apr 2006 - Oct 2007
|Archive 2||Nov 2007 - Jul 2008
|Archive 3||Aug 2008 - Nov 2009
}}

== Sun Damage ==
I have confirmed through some tests that sun damage actually follows this formula to a relatively good degree of accuracy (5% error)
SunDamageConstant(multiplier)=damage
where SunDamage Constant equals the number you see in your menu and
the multiplier is 2 when within one hour off 12:00 a.m., and goes down by (1/3) increments.
So the actual damage you take when 100% Vampire at 8:00 a.m. is (8)(.6667)= 5.33 damage a second
[[User:Nordickie|Nordickie]] 21:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== Advancing through stages using the console ==
Is it possible to advance through the stages of vampirism using the console (25, 50, 75, 100) and skipping the 3 day waiting period. To be clear I am NOT speaking of becoming a vampire. I am asking if one is already a vampire is it possible to use the console to quickly advance him back and forth through the stages. {{unsigned|98.240.210.20|02:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)}}

== Appearance Change ==
This is really weird, I used the console to make it possible to become a vampire via Porphyllic Hemopholia. But when I became a vampire, my character's features were changed. Now that I've cured myself it's become even more obvious, his skin tone is lighter and his face is wider. After a second test, he looks exactly like he was before. Any thoughts/similar experiences on this? {{unsigned|67.65.251.241|21 December 2009}}

:See [[Oblivion:Vampirism#Bugs|this]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

== Vampirism ==

Does the vampirism effect actually turn the target into a vampire, or does it just create vampire facial features, or does it do nothing at all? Just wondering, going to make some mods involving fake vampirism (i.e. put a ring on and be vampire, take it off, no vampire. or a modified skeleton key script where it adds an ability with all the effects of being a 100% vampire for a different item.)
{{unsigned|67.234.243.42|05:06, 31 December 2009}}

:As "target" you mean by the "Player's Character?" If so then yes It does turn the player's character into a vampire. They can feed on sleeping NPCs, have some boosted stats, acquire damage from sun after awhile, becoming 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|resistant to desease]], and other stats.[[User:DEadstone|--DEadstone]]

== Bug Solution? ==

Does loading your previous save before vampirism and then loading your vampirism saved game from in-game permanantly get rid of the face changing bug, or must it be repeated every time? {{unsigned|206.212.155.56|19 January 2010}}
:It must be repeated each time you begin Oblivion. In my experience at least, any time a vampire-character game save is loaded from the main menu, it introduces the face-changing bug. It must be loaded from the in-game menu to avoid the bug. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 04:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

== Beast Vamps ==

I haven't become a vampire yet and I was wondering... Can Kajiits become a vampire???{{Unsigned|72.147.214.128|27 January 2010}}

:Yes, definitely. They will become paler and look older, and get the same red eyes as humans... which is a bit unsetling to be honest {{Unsigned|192.132.64.2|15 February 2010}}

== argonians, redguards, etc. ==

What about races who can't get disease? Can they still get the vampire disease? Argonians and Redguards can't get diseases, and I think there might be another race too. I want to become a vampire but my character is a Redguard.
[[Special:Contributions/67.32.207.96|67.32.207.96]] 21:40, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

: I seem to recall reading about Porphyric Hemophilia having a bug (or maybe on purpose) that makes it byass disease resistence. Easiest way to figure it out would to pick Argonian and let a vampire wail on you. {{unsigned|Catmaniac66|1 March 2010}}

::[[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]], [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]]s, [[Oblivion:Bosmer|Bosmer]], and [[Oblivion:Redguard|Redguard]]s all have 75% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|disease resistance]], which means it's less likely but still possible to contract [[Oblivion:Porphyric Hemophilia|Porphyric Hemophilia]], regardless of any "bypass"ing. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 16:37, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

When I Last Checked, The scripting for Porphyric Hemophilia allows it to completely bypass any disease resistance. Even with 200% disease resistance you could still catch it. I believe that this was put in so the Vincent Valchene could give it to you without fail in the dark gift quest. {{Unsigned|92.10.87.56|14 June 2010}}

== Becoming a vampire after curing Porphyric Hemophilia. ==

It might be notable that you can become a vampire again if you cured during the 3 day period when you first catch Porphyric Hemophilia by cure disease potions, spells etc. Unless I've encountered a bug or glitch. [[User:Jammy-182|Jammy-182]] 17:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:No, you cannot become a Vampire again once you are cured. I think you're confusing Porphyric Hemophilia the ''disease'' and Vampirism. After you cure Vampirism you can still catch the disease, however, the disease will not turn you into a Vampire a second time or third time ect.--[[Special:Contributions/12.107.122.230|12.107.122.230]] 20:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::No, Jammy is right, because you never actually had the disease Vampirism, just Porphyric Hemophelia, which turns you into a vampire. You can get Porphyric Hemophelia a million times, as long as it never matures into Vampirism.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 20:19, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Arch-Mage Matt is correct. Before the 3 day period has passed, one is not a vampire. Therefore, one can treat the Porphyric Hemophilia with a Cure Disease effect. Since one was never a vampire, the script that prohibits future vampirism is not activated. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 20:27, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::::My apologies, I misread what he said. Sorry.--[[Special:Contributions/12.107.122.230|12.107.122.230]] 20:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::::No worries. The information you provided is still accurate - after curing vampirism, one cannot become a vampire again. However, curing Porphyric Hemophilia can occur indefinitely. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 20:30, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

~I got myself in a glich somehow, im an argonian male and i have all vampire attributes, and everyone's scared of me ( wont talk back to me ) but i dont look it, i cant feed, or cure it. any clues........ email me at Zack.fair.ffadc@gmail.com~

== does vampire change argornian appeerince? ==

hi i was just wondering if being a vamprire changes a argornians apeerince?(i know that it will make ther face changg but i'm talking about their eyes because they're already red and i'm not planing on becoming a vampire any time soon so i can't tell you!)[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:38, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

umm...does anybody know if it changes your eyes?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 23:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Having been an Argonian vampire, I can say this from experience. However, the Argonian gains light red or pinkish HUMAN eyes. It can be a bit...creepy. [[Special:Contributions/207.69.137.10|207.69.137.10]] 00:03, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

ok thanks!--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 00:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

== Shopkeepers who hate vampires. ==

Well, does anyone think we should have a list of all the shopkeepers who won't deal with a maxed out vamp? {{unsigned|Jean-Velejeanne|20 March 2010}}

:I don't think so. It would be pointless, as when you're at 100% vampire I don't think anyone but the Dark Brotherhood/Black Hand will talk to you anyways. [[Special:Contributions/75.219.139.45|75.219.139.45]] 22:26, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

::I agree its pointless :P --[[User:Kri-Dar|Kri-Dar]] 22:40, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

:::If you find a shopkeeper who ''will'' deal with you (apart from [[Oblivion:M'raaj-Dar|M'raaj-Dar]] and his replacement), that would be worth mentioning. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:08, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:Many NPCs, not just shopkeepers, will avoid talking to you. This can actually be taken care of by a Greater Power that you get when you become a vampire called "Vampire's Seduction". Or, if you have the means to create your own spells, simply make a spell that charms 100 pts for 1 second, and cast it on anyone who won't talk to you. So far, I haven't found anyone on which this doesn't work. [[User:Ghost Host|Ghost Host]] 14:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

~ just putting in my two cents, im 100% vampire, all shopkeeprs talk to me (with exception of roaming keepers and people you buy stuff for frostcraig, deepscorn hollow and the theivs den), all guards do, most NCP's wont talk to me, but its odd ...im not hurt by sunlight, have all attributes, cant/wont let me drink blood, and i cant cure myself, im sure im in a glich but im not sure how to get out of it.~

== Khajiit bug: White burned Brown?! ==

I found a bug that has occurred every time I've played as a Khajiit. I always make the skin white, but when I get turned into a vampire, the skin returned to it's default color of brown. Does anyone know why?[[User:Mortono|Mortono]] 18:25, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I believe the game is set to turn the character to the 'paler' brown/yellow color that comes with being a vampire; it ignores your actual color completely. This happens with my white Argonians as well. [[Special:Contributions/75.219.76.220|75.219.76.220]] 01:56, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Would it happen to my blue argonian as well? If so i would have to renounce to vampirism...
and also what if I cure it after? Would it turn back to my normal blue or would it go to default red?

== Differences from Morrowind? ==

Does being a Vampire still have the penalty of being unable to restore health on sleeping? If so, does waiting restore any health? Also, does feeding restore any health, or does it merely affect what stage of Vampirism your character has? [[User:Mathiusdragoon|Mathiusdragoon]] 12:37, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm...not being a vampire in either of the games i can't give a steady answer but i think that your hleath will regenarate and feeding won't heal you cause it isn't a spell but i'm not sure that's correct thow--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 22:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

You can recover health normally when you sleep, and wait. Feeding does not restore health, but brings down the vampirism level.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 23:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

~~Except when you are in the sun in stage two +, of course.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 23:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== Can you duplicate ??? ==

Hey I was wondering if I could duplicate items for this quest. You need 5 grand soul gems to start this quest and I only have 3 so if I duplicate grand soul gems using the duplication glitch will Melisda accept them?

:yeah probly but i've never done the quest but there dosn't seem to be any thing that wouldn't alow it--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 13:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

: you can, you need to buy or get at least 3 of any 1 scroll. Double click or tap the scroll and then drop the item you want to duplicate. but u can only duplicate 1 at a time. So drop 2 of your gems then double click the scroll then drop the 1 remaining soul gem and there should be more on the ground ! : ) [Your welcome. Tim]

Will the arrow glitch also do it? ([[User:Arny|Arny]] 13:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC))

:yeah i don't really know why the other person put that there but if you have some patchs the arrow glitch won't work and you'll have to use scroll one--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 15:05, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

:no im on 360 with no patches and the arrow glitch works so Ill use that [[User:Arny|Arny]] 08:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

:Just a little side note on the duplication glitch- You don't -have- to drop what you're duplicating until you only have one, unless you have more of the item than the scrolls you use to duplicate it. Otherwise you'll just get the same amount of the stated item + the extras you're still carrying. EX: Duping 3 Soul Gems with 20 Scrolls = 22 Soul Gems. [[User: anonymous|anonymous]] 11:20, 2 July 2010

== moved ==

''Owners of the PS3 GOTY have no way to cure vampirism, because the witch will not accept bloodgrass, no matter how much you have, or where you get it from. this can end up ruining your game if your not absolutely sure you want to remain a vampire forever.''

i recently removed this because it seems unlikely because there's people who did this quest on ps3--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 20:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Put it back then. Just because there are workarounds doesn't mean the glitch doesn't exist. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 16:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:no like the reason i moved it is because it probly just happend to this one person because if nobody could do it then bethasda would release a patch ojn the new games--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 16:28, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::It happens to every person using the PS3 Game of the Year edition, and Bethesda are an incompetent developer when it comes to quality assurance. I think that several years of repeated incidents are a bit more trustworthy than an assumption that starts with 'probably'. If it was a 'one-off' glitch it wouldn't be here. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 17:10, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:ok then well if this is a wide known problem i'd like to here if any one else had this problem of not being able to do this quest--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Bethesda is not an incompetent developer at the time the ps3 was a new console for which they had never programmed before you cant expect it to be perfect, maybe if they made it again today it wouldn't be that bad and would have the same glitches as the 360 --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 17:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Fair point Arny, until you consider that Bethesda were not the lead dev on the PS3 port, and that the PC versions used to have this bug before a patch. However Gum, I must stress that this is a VERY common problem. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 17:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::::GUM I dont have the ps3 version but ive heard all over the internet about this bug so I think it exists --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 17:18, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::::: It most difinitely exist. That is why there is a whole [[Oblivion:Vampire_Cure#PS3_GotY_Vampirism_Cure_Notes|section]] dedicated to the subject. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:21, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:oh ok then if it's on that page then why do we need it here?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 17:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:: We do not need it here. This is a page about Vampirism in general, while the bug is related to the Vampire Cure quest. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:::But with that said, I think it would still be well-suited to this page. If a PS3 owner looks at this page, reads it through and considers it would be good to be a vampire, then they wouldn't be aware of the bug unless they read about it on the quest's page. Just my own thoughts but I'd say it's kind of necessary to list what's arguably the worst thing about vampirism on a page about it. [[User:Mental Gear|Mental Gear]] 20:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::::He's right there are several bugs in vampirism and this could be added to warn ps3 owners I could Wright a list of bugs right now --[[User:Arny|Arny]] 19:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::It's standard policy not to duplicate material across pages. In this case, the bug is to do with the '''quest''' so it gets mentioned there. It isn't a bug with vampirism, so there's no reason for it to be here. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 04:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== 100% Resistance to disease? I don't think so... ==

I just contracted Astral Vapours from a Zombie in [[Oblivion:The Old Way|The Old Way]], the only problem is that
I'm a high elf vampire, my natural disease resistance is 75% and add the 100% from being a vampire, I really shouldn't of contracted this disease should I? If you don't believe me I'll upload a picture of my active effects page, I play on the Xbox 360, The disease isn't an inconvenience I can cure it right now if I wanted to but I just want to know how the hell I contracted it...--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 13:23, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:Maybe you got hit with a weakness to disease (if there is) spell. I know with my arogonian vampire i somehow managed to get the same disease. perhaps theres different levels of diseases, not in the morrowind sense though, kind of link strength. So you would need a higher resistance (perhaps even over 100) to protect from. With my argonian vampire ive managed to get astral vapors and rock joint [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:: If you can't do maths : 75 + 100 = 175% That's my total spell resistance. And The only Weakness to disease spells are "Weakness to Disease 25%" which still gives me 150% resistance, if you got the same disease too maybe Astral Vapours isn't affected by the 100% resistance caused by vampirism? Oh and Zombies can't cast spells... So I wasn't affected by a weakness spell..--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 13:50, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Try reading the last part of my last post, I was suggesting that different diseases had different "strengths" but not like in morrowing. Maybe a higher "strength" disease would require higher resistance. argonians have 75 or 100 resist, vampires have 100 and my vampire argonian has managed to get both rock joint and astral vapors on stage 1 vampirisim. maybe that has something to do with it... stages... [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 14:02, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::: Diseases don't have "strengths" though, if they did it would be on their [[Oblivion:Diseases|PAGE]]--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 14:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::Speaking of the page I looked on the "bugs" section and I found "Astral Vapors ignores disease resistance. Characters with 100% Resist Disease and 100% Resist Magic (eliminating the possibility that a Weakness to Disease effect could be added) can be infected with Astral Vapors."
Seems I was right haha :P--[[User:VergilSparda|VergilSparda]] 14:06, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:Still doesnt explain how my argonian vampire (ill start addressing him by name:Silver-eye) got rockjoint... [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mike]][[User talk:Mikeyboy52|Talk]] 14:10, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
::Weakness to disease, probably a spell that got you or something like that.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 22:29, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Astral vapors is similar to Porphyric Hemophilia in that it bypasses Disease resistance. See Below:
"unless you have the Unofficial Oblivion Patch installed, it bypasses disease resistance."
Sorry bud but you gotta get rid of it the old fashioned way (potions, scrolls, spells, altars etc.) {{Unsigned|92.10.87.56|14 June 2010}}

In a article, I cannot remember where, but it said specifically that vampirism is, quite literally, a unique disease of it's own, and is seperate from the Disease section, disite cure disease effects curing it, you cannot resist it at all. I cannot remember where it said this, but it said no matter what, a Resist Disease effect does not change your resistance to Vampirism-Related diseases AT ALL. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 18:43, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Masks ==
Here's a list of items that cover the face. Useful if you don't like your vampire face or abusing glitches. Please add more to the list! (Unconfirmed)
:Daedric Helmet
:Orcish Helmet
:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal
:Masque of Clavicus Vile
Sorry if my list is formatted wrong, slow connection right now. --[[User:Zander490|Zander490]] 18:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
:Confirmed list of Paper Bags: Masque of Clavicus Vile, Daedric Helmet, Dwarven Helmet, Gray Cowl of Nocturnal. Orcish helmets do cover the face, but not much. The Gray Cowl is the only real "mask" I know of in this game, so it stays. Hope this helps. --[[User:Zander490|Zander490]] 19:24, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

== Healing While Vampire ==

If you use a healing spell such as Heal 25 points for 6 seconds You are allowed to wait out in the sunlight however you Will die (I did after doing it for a few hours...)
You may also be able to fast travel but I'm not sure what would happen
Also my game won't load as i'm taking sun damage from that moment
anybody able to help with that?

== No change Limit? ==

I've noticed with Oblivion that when you become a vampire, it will not wait the three day waiting period before changing your vampire level as well as no wait after contracting the disease. So basically, i would contract the disease and when i went to go sleep, it would skip the sleep stage and make me a vampire immediatly. And after having vampirisim, it will advance to the next stage regardless of how long i sleep. (anywhere from 1hour to 24hours, but it will always change whenever i wake up)

I have tryed many vampire script fix mods and NONE of them fix this problem.

A little Help?

Oblivion:Vampirism

2010-07-25T18:40:34Z

Roleplayer242621:

{{Trail|Quests|Miscellaneous}}
:''This page refers to the disease, Vampirism, in particular as it affects the player. For information about NPCs who are vampires, see '''[[Oblivion:Vampire|Vampire]]'''.''

In Oblivion, '''vampires''' are people infected with an unusual [[Oblivion:Disease|disease]], ''Porphyric Hemophilia''. The player can become a vampire, [[#By Choice|by choice]] or [[#Unintentionally|accidentally]], and can subsequently be [[#Curing Vampirism|cured]]. In addition, vampiric NPCs will be encountered, both friendly and hostile.
[[Image:OB-npc-Vampire Headshot.jpg|thumb|right|Facial image of a Vampire.]]

== Effects of Vampirism ==
Unlike previous Elder Scrolls games, you can pass as a living mortal; citizens and the [[Oblivion:Imperial Legion|Imperial guard]] will not attack you on sight if you are known to be a vampire. Yet, also unlike previous Elder Scrolls games, there are only two vampire-related quests and there are no vampire clans that you can join, nor can you associate with or avoid being attacked by vampire antagonists.
===Advantages===
Regardless of your level of vampirism, you acquire 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|disease resistance]] and 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Paralysis|resistance to paralysis]]. The other advantages and liabilities of vampirism vary depending on how long it has been since the last time you [[#Feeding|fed]] on another humanoid.

{{NewLine}}
{| class="wikitable" width=100%
! Time Since Last Feeding !! Vampirism Level !! Attribute/ Skill Bonus !! Weakness to Fire !! Resist Normal Weapons !! Sunlight Damage (HP/sec) !! [[#abilities|Ability]] Gained
|-
| 0-24 hours (first day) || 25% ||+5 || 20 % || 5 % || 0 || [[#Hunter's Sight|Hunter's Sight]]
|-
| 24-48 hours (second day) || 50% || +10 || 30 % || 10 % || 1 || [[#Vampire's Seduction|Vampire's Seduction]]
|-
| 48-72 hours (third day) || 75% || +15 || 40 % || 15 % || 4 || [[#Reign of Terror|Reign of Terror]]
|-
| 72+ hours (fourth day onwards) || 100% || +20 || 50 % || 20 % || 8 || [[#Embrace of Shadows|Embrace of Shadows]]
|}

{| class="hiddentable"
|- valign=top
|[[Oblivion:Skills|Skills]] that gain a bonus:
*[[Oblivion:Acrobatics|Acrobatics]]
*[[Oblivion:Athletics|Athletics]]
*[[Oblivion:Destruction|Destruction]]
*[[Oblivion:Hand to Hand|Hand to Hand]]
*[[Oblivion:Illusion|Illusion]]
*[[Oblivion:Mysticism|Mysticism]]
*[[Oblivion:Sneak|Sneak]]
|style="padding-left:20px"|[[Oblivion:Attributes|Attributes]] that gain a bonus:
*[[Oblivion:Strength|Strength]]
*[[Oblivion:Willpower|Willpower]]
*[[Oblivion:Speed|Speed]]
|}

Unlike most [[Oblivion:Free Skill Boosts|skill boosts]], these skill increases are implemented as abilities and therefore they increase the base value of your skills. One effect is that you gain skill perks, such as the ability to cast more powerful spells. See the section on [[Oblivion:Free Skill Boosts#Abilities|skill boost abilities]] for other advantages.

The {{Linkable Entry|abilities}} gained are:
* ''{{Linkable Entry|Hunter's Sight}}'' (Lesser Power, FormID <code>0003BEDA</code>) - [[Oblivion:Night Eye|Night Eye]] for 30 secs on Self, [[Oblivion:Detect Life|Detect Life]] 100 ft for 30 secs on Self. Costs 5 Magicka; can be used repetitively.
* ''{{Linkable Entry|Vampire's Seduction}}'' (Greater Power, FormID <code>0003BED9</code>) - [[Oblivion:Charm|Charm]] 50 pts for 20 secs on Touch, once per day. This skill can be used to bypass the huge [[Oblivion:Disposition|Disposition]] penalty that comes with being a high level Vampire.
* ''{{Linkable Entry|Reign of Terror}}'' (Greater Power, FormID <code>0003BEDC</code>) - [[Oblivion:Silence|Silence]] 20ft for 60 secs, [[Oblivion:Demoralize|Demoralize]] up to lvl 6 for 60 secs on Touch, once per day.
* ''{{Linkable Entry|Embrace of Shadows}}'' (Greater Power, FormID <code>0003BEDB</code>) - [[Oblivion:Night Eye|Night Eye]] for 90 secs on Self, [[Oblivion:Invisibility|Invisibility]] for 180 secs on Self, once per day.

===Disadvantages===
* [[Oblivion:Sun Damage|Sun Damage]] is the most obvious disadvantage of being a vampire. At 50% vampirism and higher, you will continually take damage whenever you are outside during the day (6:00 am to 8:00 pm).
** The amount of damage increases at higher levels of vampirism.
** To prevent sun damage, you need to return to 25% vampirism by feeding; as long as you do not sleep (or wait/rest) after feeding you will remain at 25% vampirism and be able to travel safely.
** The level of damage depends upon how bright it is outside; damage reaches its peak at midday.
*** Cloud cover reduces the damage you take from sunlight, but does not eliminate it. Being underwater has a similar effect.
*** Walking inside a tent (without needing to enter a door, so you are still "outside"), or standing under something that provides shade has no effect on sun damage.
*** There is no sun in any of Mehrunes Dagon's [[Oblivion:Planes of Oblivion|Planes of Oblivion]], therefore vampires do not suffer from any Sun Damage while in Oblivion. Vampires will still take damage in the [[Shivering:Shivering Isles|Shivering Isles]], however.
** Whenever you are taking sun damage (even if reduced by cloud cover), you are unable to [[Oblivion:Getting Around#Fast Travel|Fast Travel]].
*** Fast Travel during the day is only possible if it is initiated during the night time. You will not receive damage from travel that is done during the day when using fast travel. However, if you arrive somewhere during the day, you will begin taking damage.
*** You can fast travel during the day, from any of the [[Oblivion:houses|houses]] that you own, except in [[Oblivion:Anvil|Anvil]].
** You cannot [[Oblivion:Controls#Wait|wait]] outside during the day. At night you can use the wait function, but you must stop waiting before sunrise if you are outside. If your character continues waiting while exposed to sunlight, your character will take damage and will eventually die.

* Your appearance will change significantly, and will remain so until you are cured. Your character will age by twenty years, acquiring a wrinkled and pale complexion. If your character has an unusual skin color, this may be changed radically. Others will notice and comment on your appearance if you allow yourself to go beyond 25% Vampirism. For humanoids, your eyes will become a pale red color. You may also lose your eyebrows and facial hair. While you are a full vampire (haven't fed in 72 hours or more and have waited/slept three separate times), people may refuse to speak to you, citing your obvious Vampirism. This can be countered by raising the NPC's [[Oblivion:Disposition|Disposition]] to at least 100, for example using the [[#Vampiric Seduction|Vampiric Seduction]] greater power ([[Oblivion:Charm|Charm]]).

* Guards will occasionally attack you if you are at 100% vampirism.

==Stages of Vampirism==
===Becoming a Vampire===
There are two ways to become a vampire in ''Oblivion'': by choice, and unintentionally. You can only become a vampire once: if you become a full vampire, and are then [[#Curing Vampirism|cured]], you cannot become a vampire again.

==== By Choice ====
* Complete all the contracts given to you by senior [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] member [[Oblivion:Vicente Valtieri|Vicente Valtieri]], and he will offer you the gift of vampirism (available through the quest [[Oblivion:Darkness Eternal|Darkness Eternal]]).
* Download the [[Oblivion:Mehrunes' Razor|Mehrunes' Razor]] [[Oblivion:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]] and complete the quest. If you eat the [[Oblivion:Beating Heart|Beating Heart]] ingredient taken from [[Oblivion:Msirae Faythung|Msirae Faythung]], you will be infected with the diseases [[Oblivion:Cannibal's Prion|Cannibal's Prion]] and Porphyric Hemophilia. Be sure to let the vampirism take hold first before you use [[Oblivion:Cure Disease|Cure Disease]] to get rid of the Cannibal's Prion. You can also use the Beating Heart to make a Potion of Porphyric Hemophilia, if your Alchemy skill is 100.
* Simply allow a vampire to attack you until you contract Porphyric Hemophilia.

====Unintentionally====
Whenever fighting vampires you run the risk of being infected with the vampirism [[Oblivion:Disease|disease]], ''Porphyric Hemophilia''. Locations where vampires may be encountered are listed at [[Oblivion:Vampire Dungeons|Vampire Dungeons]].
* [[Oblivion:Resist Disease|Resist Disease]] effects, even if at 100% or higher, will '''not''' decrease the chance of your character catching Porphyric Hemophilia, because of a bug in the way the disease is specified in the game mechanics.

Once initially contracted, Porphyric Hemophilia will not take effect until three days have passed, at which point sleeping will trigger the full change into a vampire.
* After your first rest/night of sleep (72 or more hours after contracting the disease) you will have strange dreams/visions. You will obtain some vampire skills.
* At least a day after your first rest, a second rest/night of sleep will cause more strange dreams/visions, and you obtain some more vampire skills.
* At least a day after your second rest, a third rest/night of sleep will cause even more strange dreams/visions, you obtain all vampire skills, and you become a full vampire and highly vulnerable to daylight.
Note that at least for the first night of sleep, if you are also due to [[Oblivion:Leveling|level up]], sleeping will only trigger vampire skills. A second nap will be necessary to increase your level and increase your attributes.

===Preventing Vampirism===
For the first 72 hours after being infected with Porphyric Hemophilia, the condition is subject to the rules which govern any other disease (and can be cured in the same fashion). If you become infected and do not wish to become a vampire, you must drink a potion, eat an ingredient (e.g. [[Oblivion:Mandrake Root|Mandrake Root]] or [[Oblivion:Shepherd's Pie|Shepherd's Pie]]), or cast a spell which [[Oblivion:Cure Disease|cures disease]]. Alternatively, you could go to the nearest [[Oblivion:Nine Divines|temple]] and receive a blessing at the chapel altar. If you do not cure the disease within three days, however, you can no longer be cured. At that point, the only way to prevent becoming a vampire is to avoid sleeping for as long as possible.

===Feeding===
[[Image:OB-Vampire Feeding.jpg|thumb|right|Vampire feeding on a sleeping target]]
In order to feed, a sleeping humanoid must be found. Feeding on an awake, stunned, paralyzed or dead person is not possible. To feed, simply "activate" the person. Doing so while not sneaking will give a choice between feeding and talking; doing so while sneaking gives a choice between feeding and pickpocketing.

If someone else witnesses a feeding, it will be reported as a crime with a bounty of 40 gold (it is treated as an assault charge). Being caught by someone else while feeding also wakes up the victim. Feeding does not kill or harm the person (they are ''not'' turned into vampires). Being stealthy while feeding will rarely result in the humanoid waking up, with the exception of Imperial Guards. Guards seem to often be woken up to the feeding and attempt to arrest you as a result. Guards can be avoided as they offer no special feeding bonuses; feeding on any humanoid will garner the same results.

Do note, however, feeding on other vampires is impossible. Attempting to feed on another vampire will not get a feeding dialog box, but instead the vampire will simply react as though feeding was never attempted. They will wake up for conversation if you are not sneaking, or you will enter the pickpocketing screen if you are sneaking.

Some easy ways to feed are:
* Prey upon one of the [[Oblivion:beggars|beggars]] that go to sleep around the towns at night. They often sleep in hidden places and guards don't usually go near them. Also, you don't need to break into anywhere.
* Feed on fellow guild members, especially in the [[Oblivion:Mages Guild|Mages Guild]] which exists in every city. The [[Oblivion:Fighters Guild|Fighters Guild]] works less well, because the porters follow you around. [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] members do not care if you feed on other members.
* While [[Oblivion:Cloud Ruler Temple|Cloud Ruler Temple]] is an option, this is not recommended as the Blades all sleep in the same area.
* [[Oblivion:Inns|Inns]] are another source of sleeping people.
* Break into a house and feed on the owner. This has some risks: some people do not spend the whole night in their home; the owner might be awake and report you to the guards for trespassing.
* Churches, although seemingly unlikely, are great places to feed. Every city has them, and the church members routinely go to sleep at the same time in every church.
* If you own the [[Oblivion:Rosethorn Hall|Rosethorn Hall]] and have the Servants Quarters, you can feed on [[Oblivion:Eyja|Eyja]].
* If you have the [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] [[Oblivion:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]] installed, feed on the [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow (place)#Cattle_Cell|sleeping prisoner]] in [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow (place)|Deepscorn Hollow]].
* The [[Oblivion:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]], obtained after completing the [[Oblivion:Thieves Guild|Thieves Guild]] quest line, can be worn when feeding; the assault is then attributed to the [[Oblivion:Gray Fox|Gray Fox]] rather than the player character if you are caught.

===Advancing Through Stages Of Vampirism===
While you are a Vampire, you are always at least at 25% Vampirism. To see this you can open your Journal, select the Spells/Abilities section and then select the far right, ''Active Effects'' tab. There should be an effect labeled ''Vampirism'' and its number should be at a minimum of 25.

You advance through the stages of Vampirism during sleep or waiting. After 24 hours without feeding, the next time that you sleep/wait, you will advance another 25% in Vampirism. You need to sleep or wait to trigger the advancement - the fundamental passing of time is not enough. Note however, that you do not have to pass time in order to ''trigger'' the advancement. In other words, if ≥24 hours have passed since your last feeding, you can just start the wait and cancel it immediately.

The effect of spending long periods of time without feeding, waiting or sleeping has its downside, where even if you feed, the next time you sleep or wait you will still advance in Vampirism (as if your advancements in vampirism were queued-up). This game of ''catch-up'' does not seem to last very long, however. In theory, if you were to stay awake a month or just a week and not feed, the ''catch-up'' time would be the same either way. In any case, you can simply counter this problem by repeatedly feeding on the same person several times consecutively until you're clear again.

As you progress through the stages of Vampirism, you become more and more light-sensitive. You will notice that light glares more and more, especially when there is a great deal of light around you. At night or in the dark, this can actually help you to see things better if you have a video card with the supported shaders. However during the day this can make it difficult to see the details of anything except when underwater.

'''Note:'''
After reaching 100% vampirism (not drinking blood for 72+ hours and then sleeping), you will still revert back to 25% vampire if you drink blood. You will lose the abilities granted by full vampirism but retain the abilities of one being 25%. You will lose a considerable strength bonus, so exercise caution if you are close to your maximum encumbrance limit. This cycle can be repeated as often as necessary.

===Curing Vampirism===
In the base game, curing vampirism involves a [[Oblivion:Vampire_Cure|lengthy quest]]. Once cured, it is not normally possible to become a vampire again (except via [[Oblivion:Console|console commands]]) even though [[Oblivion:Melisande|Melisande]] says that her services will be available if needed in the future. You still can contract "Porphyric Hemophilia" normally after that, but it behaves just like any normal disease then - drain fatigue 5 until cured, without any special effects from sleeping.

The [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] [[Oblivion:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]] has a ''Font of Renewal'' that can cure vampirism much more easily than going through the Vampire Cure quest. Just like with the standard vampire cure, you cannot become a vampire again after using the Font to cure your vampirism.

====Console Method====
Give yourself the ''Cure Vampirism'' potion by typing the following [[Oblivion:Console|Console]] command:
:<code>player.additem 977E4 1</code>

If you added vampirism with the console, you may also need to use the following commands:
:<code>Set PCVampire to 0</code>
:<code>Set vampire.hasdisease to 0</code>

===Becoming a Vampire Again (After Being Cured)===
Although it is still possible to contract Porphyric Hemophilia after being cured, a character can never become a vampire again without the use of a mod or the console. This is due to the fact that either method of being cured of the condition sets pcvampire and vampire.hasdisease to -1. Prior to being infected they are both set at 0 and this is what allows the transformation to take place. There are several mods that change this, and three ways of doing it via the [[Oblivion:Console|Console]]:

====Console Method One====
In order to become a vampire again through being infected with Porphyric Hemophilia simply type the following into the console, <code>Set PCVampire to 0</code> and <code>Set vampire.hasdisease to 0</code>. Thereafter you will be able to become a vampire through any of the normal means within the game.

====Console Method Two====
Typing the following console commands makes you a 25% vampire, with all the appropriate skills and attributes. Adding vampirism this way seems to behave properly in terms of progressing to full vampire with time, and returning to 25% after feeding.
:<code>Set PCVampire to 1</code>
:<code>Player.addspell 3DB3A</code>
:<code>Player.addspell 2C2A8</code>
:<code>Player.addspell 2C2A7</code>
:<code>Player.addspell 3BEDA</code>
:<code>Player.setfactionrank A319 0</code>
*The <code>Player.setfactionrank</code> command puts you in the Player Vampire Faction. It doesn't appear to be strictly necessary, but it occurs when you acquire vampirism normally. Using the Cure Vampirism potion will remove you from this faction automatically, but if you cure vampirism with the console you need to use <code>Player.setfactionrank A319 -1</code> to remove yourself.
*If you do not have the Unofficial Oblivion Patch installed, it may be necessary to feed in order to progress from 25% vampirism.

====Console Method Three====
'''Note''': This technique only works once.
* Type <code>coc testvampireinterior</code> to be transported to the developer's vampirism testing area.
* There are two similar tombstones in the room. First click the one that says "Click me to become a vampire!" then click the second "full vampire" stone.
* Feed on the sleeping man and head out.
* Return to Tamriel. One way to return is to go out to the main testing hall and use the door labeled "Hawkhaven" to get outside; standard fast-travel is then possible.

== Vampire Nightmares ==
As you progress through the various levels of vampirism (25%, 50%, 75%, 100%) you will have nightmares. The first nightmare you experience (changing from non-vampire to 25% vampirism) is always the same. At any other transition you will randomly experience one of ten possible nightmares:

* '''First nightmare''': You dream of someone sleeping peacefully in his bed, when a shadowy, gaunt figure silently enters the room. Approaching the bed, the figure leans down and sinks its fangs into the sleeping person. After a few moments, the pale figure rises, blood dripping down his/her chin. As color flows back into the vampire's face, and his/her features fill out, you recognize the face as your own. You awake screaming.

* '''Random Nightmare #1''': You dream of long days spent basking in the sunlight of your native lands. You feel the warmth and the heat, and feel your body become refreshed. Then you awaken, knowing it was but a dream.

* '''Random Nightmare #2''': In your dream, you see a beautiful young woman holding an infant to her breast. It is only as you draw near that you realize that the woman is a desiccated corpse and the child is purple and bloated, dying of plague. As mother and child crumble to dust, you awaken.

* '''Random Nightmare #3''': In your dream, an old wise-woman treats you for burns on your hands. As she applies a salve to your skin, you feel the tingle of magic as the pain begins to subside. But as you watch, the flesh of your hands begins to bubble, crack, and split, falling in chunks to the floor of her hut. As the wise-woman smiles, you wake up.

* '''Random Nightmare #4''': In a dream from your childhood you remember playing hiding games with your young friends on a warm summer afternoon. You hide in your parents’ barn, sure you will not be found. Soon, the sweet smell of hay is replaced by a darker, sickly smell. You move deeper into the barn, only to stumble on the rotting corpses of your parents, their throats ripped out. You try to scream as your parents rise and pull you into an embrace.

* '''Random Nightmare #5''': You dream of a sumptuous banquet spread out before you. You feast on a particularly choice cut of roasted meat, and its aroma makes your mouth water. It is only as you cut into the last portion that you see the larvae squirming inside. You cough blood as the larvae begin eating their way out of your stomach.

* '''Random Nightmare #6''': You lay on your back, with a blissful feeling of peace swirling through your brain. Your every muscle is relaxed. There is no tension in any part of your body. You feel completely at ease. As your vision comes into focus, you notice others standing around you. As a man leans towards you, you recognize the robes of the Necromancer, and you see a glint of light from his scalpel as it begins to cut through your flesh.

* '''Random Nightmare #7''': A warm, gentle breeze causes a tickle on your face, but as you go to brush it off, you find you cannot move your arms. Looking at your skin, you realize that it has turned to a brittle, green glass. Standing perfectly still, you breathe in shallow gulps of air, knowing that moving would cause your skin to shatter into thousands of pieces. The tickle on your face worsens, and you know that you are about to sneeze. As your skin shatters, you wake up sweating.

* '''Random Nightmare #8''': In your dream, you open your eyes to a beautiful blue sky. The sun is bright, but you feel cool, even a bit damp. You draw a breath but begin to cough, as you expel blood and dirt that you’ve inhaled into your lungs. As you try to draw another, you see a shovel of dirt being emptied onto your face. The sunlight grows fainter as you view it through the soil that covers your body. You would scream, but your mouth fills with dirt before you can make a sound.

* '''Random Nightmare #9''': In your dream, you approach a vampire ancient. Having just completed a perilous task for him, you swell with pride, sure that he will now bestow even greater power upon you. The entire clan’s eyes are upon you. Walking towards the dais where he stands, you realize that your task for him is actually unfinished, and that all of your vampiric powers have left you. You cry out as the clan descends upon you, and the ancient’s fangs rip into the flesh of your throat.

* '''Random Nightmare #10''': You dream of walking through the cool night air. Your body cries for blood, having not fed for days. Weakly, you stumble to a small pool. As you bend down to it, you see that it is not water in the pool, but warm, fresh blood, steam rising off of it. You lower your head to drink, but cannot open your mouth. As you realize in horror that your lips have been sewn shut, a pair of cold, white hands reach out from the pool and draw you under.

== Bugs ==
* When loading a vampire character save from the main start screen, your character's face may be altered to the default face. Female vampires may have their face change into that of an elderly male vampire (although the rest of the body remains female). To avoid this bug, load a different save from the main start screen, and then load your vampire character save from the in-game load menu.
:* {{Pc22}} This bug is partially fixed by the {{Tesnexus|15697|Vampire Race Disabler Plugin for OBSE}}.
:* {{UOP}}
:* {{Pc22}} Female players can fix their gender by using the [[Oblivion:Console|Console]] to enter the command <code>sexchange</code> twice.

* The statue in [[Oblivion:Bruma|Bruma]] of your character, which appears after the [[Oblivion:Great Gate|Great Gate]] quest has been completed, will always have the default face if your character is a vampire.

* There is an obvious bug in the script, monitoring the player's vampire status. The counter for the incubation time is not reset after you cure yourself of Porphyric Hemophilia before becoming a vampire. The result is, next time you catch the disease you will have only 72 hours minus previous incubation time to cure yourself before becoming a vampire.

* Advancing the base level of a skill past a perk breakpoint (25/50/75/100) while that skill is boosted by vampirism may prevent the perk dialog from being shown, e.g. if you have 25% vamprism (+5 Sneak) and your true Sneak skill is 49 (54 displayed) you will not be told about the perk when you next advance your Sneak skill.

* If you equip both a bow and a shield, after feeding, you will be able to see the shield and bow equipped on your character at once (as opposed to seeing the bow and having the shield invisible, and not giving you an armor bonus). There are known cases where you will receive the armor bonus as well as having your bow equipped.

* Occasionally, the feeding animation doesn't play and your character simply stands still. This does not influence your feeding: you will still receive the feeding message and you will go back to 25% vampirism.

* When you are at 50% or greater vampirism, you will take sun damage when outside. Saving outside while taking sun damage then reloading will cause the game to crash and the save can no longer be used. {{VN|There have been reports of this [[Oblivion talk:Vampirism#**XBOX 360 Bug**|before]] but it's clear not everybody has the problem. Can we isolate the cause?}}

== Notes ==
* It is important to remember that until you actually wait or rest, the changes won't be triggered. If you do not want the powers and bonuses of being a full vampire, then it's much better to use spells or potions to heal yourself, and fast travel around the map to consume time, instead of waiting/resting. Although this will in theory allow you to prevent changes indefinitely, you will eventually need to rest in order to level up. In that case, the easiest thing to do is to go to an area frequented by beggars such as the Imperial Waterfront District. Wait in one hour successions until all your changes are complete, then feed on the sleeping beggars. This might be somewhat tedious in the length, though, especially fast traveling to pass time.

* If you are planning to become a vampire, one good race to choose is [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]], because the 75% [[Oblivion:Resist Fire|Resist Fire]] will offset the vampire's weakness. Another good race as a vampire is an [[Oblivion:Imperial|Imperial]], because you can use the spell Voice of the Emperor in combination with the Vampire's Seduction spell to make an NPC's disposition reach 100 easily.

* If you are concerned about your character's appearance, feed frequently so that you do not go past the first stage of vampirism. Your character's face will stay relatively normal, e.g., you will look nearly the same as you did before the vampirism. This can also be achieved by loading another save prior to loading the vampire save, (similar to the sexchange bug workaround, above) which results in the character's face being similar to their pre-vampire appearance, without any wrinkles or aging, but retaining the red eyes. After being cured, your face will lose the monkey-like features of the final stages of vampirism, but it will be wrinkled and withered, similar to signs of aging.

* Eating [[Oblivion:Garlic|Garlic]] actually does not harm you if you are a vampire. The only vampire affected by the substance is [[Oblivion:Vicente Valtieri|Vicente Valtieri]]. If he is carrying any garlic - he doesn't have to eat it - he is afflicted with [[Oblivion:Damage Strength|Damage Strength]] 100pts, [[Oblivion:Damage Endurance|Damage Endurance]] 100pts, [[Oblivion:Weakness to Normal Weapons|Weakness to Normal Weapons]] 100%, and [[Oblivion:Weakness to Magic|Weakness to Magic]] 100%.

* At 50% and above your character will actually begin to smoke when taking sun damage, though hardly noticeable. If you look close enough on a dark background you can see wisps of white smoke coming off the waist and shoulders of the player. Your character's skin may also darken and return to pale while taking sun damage. {{VN}}

*Hostile [[Oblivion:Vampire|Vampire]] NPCs (such as those found in [[Oblivion:Places#Forts|abandoned forts]], [[Oblivion:Mines|mines]], [[Oblivion:Caves|caves]], and [[Oblivion:Places#Ayleid_Ruins|Ayleid Ruins]]) will still attack vampire players.

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying

2010-07-23T18:04:38Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Miscellaneous */

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||February 2007 - June 2008
}}
{{TOCright}}

== Better guidelines ==

In the interest of curbing some of the ridiculous stuff that keeps getting added here faster than we can keep up with the deletions, I propose a new set of guidelines for creating roleplaying articles. (Not that anyone will pay attention to them, but at least when people complain that their articles are being removed, we can point to an established policy and say "here's why". So, my proposal would be something like this: (feel free to add to it, comment, etc.)
*All roleplaying ideas must be ''possible'' to do in the game, without mods or console. There's no point in telling people things like "Get married and have a family" when there simply isn't any way to do that in the game as it is designed. (Yes, I'm sure there are probably mods that let you do things like that, but this isn't about mods, and 3rd-party mods are not generally discussed on this site.) The vast majority of roleplaying submissions fail on this account.
*Standing around in one place isn't roleplaying. Thus, an idea like "Be a castle guard" which basically involves just standing around outside the gate for 18 hours a day and then sleeping in the guards quarters isn't really much of an idea. In order to consider it roleplaying, you must actually be ''doing'' something. If you're so bored with this game that you actually resort to such mundane, mindless tasks, it's probably time to put it away and find a new game.
*Collecting items isn't roleplaying. Filling your house with whatever random object you think you want to have a lot of for some reason just doesn't cut it.
*Mass slaughter isn't roleplaying. And it's already been discussed in various places anyhow. A roleplay article which basically amounts to "go everywhere and kill anything that moves" is just pointless.
*Roleplays must be Elder-Scrolls specific. Simply put, there are no Jedi in Tamriel. 'Nuff said.
*If your roleplaying idea basically just amounts to pretending to be your favorite Anime character, it really just doesn't belong here. Besides being impossible to do within the game (see above), if we start allowing articles like this, there's no end to the number of characters people could add. Nobody cares how much you love Pokemon and Dragonball-Z. Keep that stuff on your User page. (This doesn't just apply to Anime, of course. But that seems to be the most common source for named-character roleplays. You also shouldn't add articles suggesting that people play as Batman or the Terminator or Snake from Metal Gear, etc.)
I think if we applied these rules, and enforced them, we could weed out 90% of the horribleness on these pages. Any thoughts? Additions? Angry rants? --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 12:10, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

:Well thought out, Lurlock, these guidelines might just improve the quality of these articles. Many of your suggestions are brought up in earlier discussions, see [[#Cleaning up these articles]]. True roleplaying is perhaps at the core of the TES series, many roleplaying articles here though are a travesty to that idea. --[[User:Benould|Benould]]•[[User_Talk:Benould|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Benould|C]] 13:34, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

::An addition:
::*Ideas should be something ''fun''. Admittedly, that's hard to quantify, but the best way is to simply ask yourself when submitting an idea: "Would I actually ''do'' this?" If the answer is "no", then the odds are that nobody else would either. A roleplay that basically amounts to sitting around and doing the same tedious thing over and over again every day is not likely to be something that anyone will be interested in actually doing.
::--[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 14:52, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:::These seem like good quidelines. I'm not sure they'll help improve anything but, as you say, it will allow easier deletions when the time comes. {{unsigned|Rpeh|14 July 2008}}

While I agree we need to find a way to improve this page, I have a couple of overall problems with the specifics of these proposed guidelines.

First, these guidelines seem judgmental and at times arbitrary. Although most of the ideas on the page are not ones I'd be interested in playing, the fact is that at least one reader has thought that each idea would be interesting. Simply declaring all of those ideas invalid will make the article significantly useful for those who read the article; it will also alienate a significant number of readers. I think there are ways to limit the scope of the article that may ultimately have a similar effect, but will better incorporate the preferences of readers who use the article.

Second, these guidelines don't help in any way to define what we ''do'' want on the page. To make significant, lasting progress towards improving this article will require positive improvements to the article and its structure. We need to have examples of what should be on the page, so that other editors can build on those good examples. We need to find a way to structure the article that limits the overall scope of the article and eliminates redundancy, while also providing a better way for contributors to channel/organize ideas. One key reason why this probably hasn't happened to date is that this type of article revamp requires an experienced editor who is willing to seriously look at the article's contents and understand why readers find the article useful. I don't think that you can help to make the article better if your primary objective is just to delete as much content as possible.

Some more specific nitpicks with these guidelines:
* I don't think there's anything wrong with roleplaying that focuses on collecting items. Several previous articles were specifically related to collecting items, and several more contained elements of collecting. Many players do spend a lot of time collecting items. You can play the game while collecting -- there are even many quests that are just collection missions. I don't see why the whole concept should just be declared invalid.
* Similarly, what exactly is the rationale behind saying that mass slaughter isn't valid roleplaying? Is it a moral argument or is it based upon whether or not the articles contain ideas that readers find useful? A moral argument doesn't seem to hold much water in a game that requires you to assassinate NPCs; I think we have to allow articles on roleplaying evil characters. As for usefulness, my first impression is that several readers have found these
types of articles useful, given that the idea has been proposed several times, in various forms. I would agree that more than one such article would be redundant, but that's true for any given topic.

So, what do I propose instead? I've spent the last couple of days examining these articles pretty closely (and doing a lot of work trying to implement some of my ideas, too). The biggest problems that I see in the Roleplaying articles are:
* Redundancy, redundancy, and more redundancy. Ten articles all of which describe being an assassin in one way or another. General roleplaying ideas that are brought up more than once in the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and then repeated in dozens of subarticles (e.g., how to eat realistically, how to avoid fast travel). No crosslinks to other related roleplaying ideas.
* Poor quality introduction and guidelines on the page (now revised). The previous guidelines repeatedly asked editors to contribute any and all ideas and generally promoted the idea that the article is meant to provide a comprehensive list of roleplaying ideas, which is basically impossible.
* Low editorial standards. This problem is the one that's least likely to be improved in the near future, but I might as well still mention it. Articles and ideas are generally padded with too much emphasis or too many irrelevant details.

To tackle what I see as the real problems I have a few suggestions. Several of these I've already implemented, at least in a preliminary way, to demonstrate what I think is possible. One reason I proceeded to implement some of these ideas is that they can be done without fundamentally eliminating any information from the article and therefore should not be controversial.
* Emphasize in the character roleplaying section that the possibilities are infinite but we are trying to just provide a limited selection of good examples. We can establish some criteria that are used to limit our examples, but those criteria don't mean that other types of roleplaying are less valid.
* Add a [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#General Character Creation|General Character Creation]] section that summarizes the basic outline of dozens of roleplaying articles. This might perhaps encourage readers to follow the checklist to create their own new character (Time Lord, Sith, whatever) without creating a new article just to fill in the checklist. Furthermore, we could start to eliminate articles that consist of nothing but a list of such character creation ideas (e.g., no articles that just provide a list of name/race/skills/equipment).
* Make the individual roleplaying articles be more comprehensive, by merging any related ideas into a single article. I've done this so far for the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Roleplaying/Assassin]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Collector|Roleplaying/Collector]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist|Roleplaying/Scientist]], and [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller|Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller]] articles, in the process reducing some 30 articles into just 4. A given idea (e.g., how to live in the wilderness) should be described only once; similar ideas should be grouped together instead of repeating the same basic ideas. I think for the article to be useful, we need to end up with a list of sub-articles that is short enough to be quickly scanned and digested, so that it's obvious for readers and editors where a given idea is described.
* Aggressively eliminate redundancy. Unfortunately, this is likely to require some familiarity with what exists where. However, if we can improve the article's organization, it should become easier to identify where particular information belongs.

As for limiting type of content actually belongs on the article, I would propose:
* Any roleplaying sub-articles should be '''Elder Scrolls relevant.''' In other words, sub-articles with non-ES names should not exist.
** However, I think there is room to mention non-ES ideas within sub-articles, as specific examples of a type of roleplay. For example, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin#Ninja|Ninja]] section of the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Assassin]] article. The number of such suggestions won't be infinite, because the other criteria will effectively limit the number of relevant non-ES concepts.
* The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''
** Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist.
* The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''
** This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game.
** In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods.
* Any sub-articles have to contain '''substantial, new content.''' In other words, there has to be more than just a list of skills and equipment. There should be recommended activities that are not already covered in the general [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and are not already covered in other roleplaying sub-articles.

While this discussion is underway, I've added requests to the roleplaying article that no new sub-articles be created. I think this is a reasonable request until we've established what we want for content. Once we reach a consensus in this discussion, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Guidelines for Contributions|Guidelines for Contributions]] can be updated to provide the new criteria and allow new sub-articles to be created... as long as they meet the criteria. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 23:54, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:Nephele, I think that your proposed guidelines are a great improvement on Lurlocks set. They are very clearly defined and spelled out, and don't seem judgemental or subjective. I've also read the revamped version of the article and find it much more helpful, being much less cluttered, and generally better written overall. Kudos to you. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 00:10, 15 July 2008 (EDT)0

They are good ideas and 5 or 6 pages with these would be very good. Because i don't want to look about 40 pages to get the idea which i want...{{unsigned|78.184.150.144}}

:New Categories? I have just checked the 'Scientist' category, and the Archaeologist section has been extremely shortened. I feel this lowers the quality of the individual section. Will this happen to other characters who are categorized in this way? Also, many characters are not relevant to the categories, such as the Dark Lord.{{unsigned|89.242.210.48}}

::The four new subarticles are just the first four examples of new, more comprehensive subarticles. There clearly need to be more than just four eventually, once someone is willing to tackle all the required work to create, merge, and rewrite the subarticles. To answer your question, yes, I think that all of the roleplaying articles should be converted over to broader subarticles that combine related ideas into one place.
::Do you have any concrete complaints about the Archaelogist section of the Scientist sub-article? Yes, that one section is shorter than the standalone Archaeologist subarticle. However, in my opinion it's because the quality has increased, not decreased. It's higher quality because:
::* The information that is shared with other Scientist ideas is now listed at the top of the article, or is listed on the cross-referenced Collector article. The result is that the information is provided just once instead of being repeated over and over again; readers no longer have to wade through repeated information to dig out what's new. The number of ideas has been increased, because now related ideas that were hidden on other articles are also available to people interested in being an archaeologist.
::* The combined article makes it easier for readers interested in the general concept to browse for other, related ideas. The chances are that someone who is interested in roleplaying as an archaelogist would find some of the other ideas on the scientist and collector pages interesting. Now those other ideas are easy to find, instead of having to search through the 100+ other articles.
::* Ideas that aren't specific to being an Archaeologist have been removed. For example, "Make sure to keep a trusty weapon (enchanted or silver shortsword preferably) next to you, just in case you meet an angry skeleton or ghost!" This contributes nothing to being an archaelogist and therefore does little other than waste space.
::* Ideas that seemed to be basically pointless have been deleted. Who is seriously going to want to install a mod adding physics to paintbrushes just so you can drag the paintbrush across artifacts and pretend to dust them off? Even if you're sufficiently bored to want to try it once, it's not something you are going to want to do regularly as part of roleplaying. And it's not something that in any way contributes to how you play the game. Personally, I think winnowing out some of the more ridiculous suggestions on the article will only help the article. Readers do not want to be forced to read through dozens of uninteresting ideas -- I believe readers would rather have shorter articles that focus more specifically on information that is interesting to more than one person.
::If you feel that there are valuable ideas on the Archaeologist article that need to be moved to the new article, you are free to move the information. I'd also recommend providing some justification on the talk page, however, because making an article longer does not automatically increase its quality. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:50, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Can I suggest putting this page on hiatus (i.e. protecting it and adding a nrelevant notice at the top) until this issue is resolved? Personally i feel the roleplaying section has caused more problems than its worth and all it does is take up time that could be better spent on the actual wiki. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] [[User Talk:Volanaro|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Volanaro|C]] • [[Special:Emailuser/Volanaro|E]] 08:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Nephele's four basic guidelines seem effective. A suggestion concerning the rhetoric of the "used to play the game" guideline: Any role-playing proposal should describe, in some detail, a '''role''' and a '''style of play''' that follows from that role. A good example is the entry for "vampire hunter," for which there is a clear pattern of gameplay (such as: hunt down vampires, use fire-based attacks to kill them, then turn the vampire dust over to the Order of the Virtuous Blood for cash). Many, perhaps most, of the awful suggestions on the page consist of a role with no actual gameplay that follows from it. -- [[User:Oban|Oban]] 02:29, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:::I agree.

As Nephele has demonstrated with the four revised articles, I would like to point out that most of the ideas in each article should be in note form. I was reading the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Guerrilla Rebel|Guerrilla Rebel]] once, and I found that it was very hard to take it all in because of the 'clumps' of text. It could easily be shortened.

Also, you can include many different ideas by Categorizing them. For example: Articles like Jedi, Terminator ect. could go into a category called Movies or something.

Anything I would have said has already been said by Lurlock and Nephele. If anything, I support this idea no doubt about it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 07:16, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Pacifist ==

I'm going to be a member but I can't create pages for sometime(wiki policy) and I suggest you to create this page and name as pacifist.
Here are the ideas:

Because pacifists can't stand to see harm(human to creature, human to human etc.)(even if the one who's harmed is guilty), i thought it would be a good experience.
Be an orc or nord(for fun :D). Other races will work well (exceptions are imperials and redguards).
Create your custom class (or be an monk(replace hand to hand). Do not bear any aggresive skills.
Select sneak&security if you are the explorer type.
Speechcraft is optional, block is a must-be (To stay out of the harm's way)
Do NOT bear any aggresive spells, or do NOT carry any weapons.
Only attack if someone has mocked you when you have paying homage to your fallen comrades. Feel regret for your attack and redo the pilgrimage.
Stop any fights, or look at a different way.

Add your own ideas or so... idea just came up.

*Interesting idea.
Honestly that sounds like a decent idea... But it can easily be moved into an existing category. Or perhaps get a subarticle created. Priest/religious/whatever you know? It would be a bit of work trying to combine all the priest, monk, etc. from the list into that category, but it certainly would help in the cause.

:You could put it under [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Lifestyles|Roleplaying/Lifestyles]]. {{unsigned|60.240.157.31|11 June 2009}}

== Page Usage ==

Can i ask, how many people actually '''use''' the roleplaying pages? There are numerous articles here but do people actually read these and put the suggestions into practice in TES?--[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] 08:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to guess that only around 50% of registered editors use the ideas. I've only glanced at the pages a few times, but half of the things I couldn't even do (I'm on 360) & that was like about 4-5 months ago. (Thus the recent cleanup.) I think these pages might be used more after the new rules and guidelines.-[[User:Puddle|Puddle]] [[User Talk:Puddle|Talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Puddle|Contribs.]] 13:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

:I love these pages! I visit them one day or the other to see if something new has been added. And yes, I actually use the ideas on the pages in-game. I've some ideas by myself, but none of them are worth an entry yet. They're mostly small additions to what's on these pages already.[[Special:Contributions/87.150.188.109|87.150.188.109]] 19:12, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

== Protection? ==

After the recent spate of vandalism, I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't semi-protect this page, at least until we've finished the cleanup process. Looking back through the history, It seems like every single edit for the past couple weeks has either been vandalism, redundant additions by people who didn't read the "please don't add anything right now" notice, or reverts of the previous. Of course, if we do this, we should make sure that the cleanup happens as quickly as possible, so it doesn't need to stay protected for long, but we need some way of making people understand that this page is being redone, and a notice telling them to stop adding to it obviously isn't working - if anything there have been more edits since the notice was put up than there were before. Semi-protection would at least stop the IP editors from constantly adding redundancy and vandalism to this page until we've finished the restructuring process. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 19:16, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
'''Agree''' - I agree. No-one seems to like to read that notice, so maybe semi-protection is a good option. [[User:Daedryon|Daedryon]]•[[User_Talk:Daedryon|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Daedryon|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Daedryon|E]]• 19:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

As a user of this site, I do indeed use this, and did click the link, because I had a submission I wanted to make but wanted to read what was going on first. I would like to vouch that people are indeed doing that, and that people don't completely ignore the guidelines.

== New payment ==

I read through this page alot, and whenever I see the 'You can get paid by using the console, or through stealing'
I realize there is another way. You can duplicate items worth around 100 gold near the person who pays you, and whenever they do pay you, take one. A suggestion for such an item are soul gems. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:54, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Better guidelines followup ==
The discussion about possible guidelines has remained silent for nearly a month; has a consensus been made elsewhere? In the meantime, the articles are still there, waiting to be cleaned up, but the guidelines are still "on the drawing board". The note on the bottom of the page has been ignored or remained unseen by some; new articles are being created, which don't folow any guidelines, but are essentially just an extension of existing pages or types of roleplay. (Which is exactly what we/you are trying to prevent.)

In short: how far are we/you with those guidelines? --[[User:LordDagon|LordDagon]][[User_talk:LordDagon|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/LordDagon|C]] 11:03, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Why does this section exist in the first place? ==

:I can understand wanting to play characters to certain guidelines. I do it myself (my last character was effectively a ghost)... but most of the suggestions given here are ludicrous.
:Teleport amulet delusions, leaving money around to pretend to be paid later, annotating NPCs' words for them, getting lost in the woods and huddling under rocky overhangs to avoid the rain? Adventurers in pajamas, food poisoning, inviting Arena fans into your house, pretending to shag the maid, walking through the wilderness with a set of armour for every occasion (total weight = several hundred)? ... And I thought my brief spate of having partial Chameleon, immunity to Normal Weapons (and frost), an Invisible horse, only coming out at night and going around casting Demoralise on NPCs was crazy!
:
: Most important though... surely anyone who has the inclination to roleplay will figure out the means for themselves... right? If they don't want to use a certain game feature because it seems unrealistic, then they won't use it. The point is that roleplaying is supposed to be creative... not just following a set of someone else's guidelines and suggestions. ~ [[User:SotiCoto|SotiCoto]] 18:40, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::Personally, I agree with you, and I think this part of the site has been a thorn in my side for quite some time, but it does seem to be fairly popular, so some people must like it. I've advocated getting rid of it on several occasions, but I doubt it's going to happen, because wikis are run by the community, and a large enough portion of the community seems to want these pages to stay that it's unlikely to change any time soon. The best we can do is try and keep them under control, so that it doesn't just blow up out of proportion and bring the rest of the site down with it. We've been trying to do that by combining the subpage articles into larger, more general articles, and removing the more ridiculous ideas that either aren't technically feasable, or not likely to be appealing to any sane person. (e.g. "Be a castle guard! Stand around outside the gate for 18 hours and then go rest in the barracks!") But it's a slow process, mainly because the people who have the skills to effectively do this polishing and culling of the worst parts of this section mostly don't care enough about these pages to put in the effort. I've adopted a policy of grudging tolerance, and try to do my best to ignore what goes on here for the most part, stepping in only when there's clear need to do so. (Some of the ideas posted have been rather controversial, offensive, or - let's just say inappropriate for younger audiences. These usually get taken down pretty quickly.) If you'd like to help with this process, your assistance would be appreciated. Otherwise, I'd just say let it go and don't worry too much about it. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 23:24, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Allow me to represent the ones who enjoy this page and say there would be a firestorm if it was removed. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:46, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

I must say that I remember back the days where it was a small little section of "Things to do when you are bored", and it opened my eyes to alot of cool ways to RP in the game. I use these advice alot, they usually give me some good ideas. Im not talking about making a char thats some weirdo standing and waiting all day long.
Im talking about Roleplaying the character you have, then maybe having a RP sidejob too. Like currently im a crusader, back the days of KOTN i created the crusader part of the RP section. Its grown alot since then and I use that information too. - Fireresistance vs Flaming (elderscrolls forum)

To be honest, I think if you dont like the Roleplaying section, just dont bother with it, ignore it, UESP has the entire internet to expand, so you people that don't like it just leave it be, people such as myself find the ideas entertaining to read and perform, no offense anyone but I mean come on, its just a roleplay section for the few of us who like to really get into our characters after we've beaten the game (Complete Main Quest/Factions) X amount of times, so we like new ideas other than make a new character and do it all over again for the 5th or 6th time [[User:Zalphon|Zalphon]] 20:16, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:I have to agree with SotiCoto. I definitely see the origins of this page in what Zalphon called "Things to do when you're bored". Anyone into RP will come up with their own ideas, and many of these suggestions are more than a bit odd (I half expected to see the "shag the maid" idea in this list). The only people who actually need suggestions like this are...well, people who are bored. Here's some advice: if the game bores you so much, ''quit and play another game'', or turn off the computer or console and live your life.
:And I also have to respond to this ridiculousness about Fast Travel being unrealistic. Fast Travel is '''not''' teleportation. Time passes in-game when you Fast Travel. Don't believe me? Check the date and time in the map tab in the journal before and after Fast Travelling. It takes about an hour and fifteen minutes to Fast Travel by Chestnut horse from IC to Aleswell, and a little over an hour to FT from Aleswell to Bruma. That's approximately the same amount of in-game time it would have taken to do it yourself if you followed the main roads and did not meet any encounters. Travel is ''not'' instantaneous. The only benefit from FT is that is saves you real-world time and effort, but it has its downsides too:
:* You cannot discover POI while FT, and you will miss out on some wondrous scenery.
:* FT follows the main roads, which may or may not be the fastest and most direct route (bad when you are role-playing some sort of time constraint, and explains why it takes over four hours to FT on foot from Vilverin to the Market District in IC when you can run it in just under an hour).
:* You do not encounter anything on the road while FT, so you will miss out on xp and drops (I personally only use FT when I would follow the main road anyway and I know the area has already been cleared and has not reset).
:There are many, many things in the game that are ridiculously unrealistic (like everyone in the world telling the exact same stories word for word, and guards all over the country knowing that you committed a crime at the instant you commit it). Fast Travel is not one of them. Here endeth the rant. [[User:Phelaran|Phelaran]] 14:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

== Character roleplay idea ==

I think that a nice addition to the sperfic charcater creation section would be criminal for bandits and the like.[[User:121.218.222.125|121.218.222.125]] 02:53, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Revamp proposal discussion ==

I've posted a proposal for a revamp of the Roleplaying pages [[User talk:GuildKnight/Sandbox/1|here]]. Please chime in. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 06:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)

:If "Skooma Addict" can be a lifestyle, why can't "Drunkard" be one? The rules are similar: the objective is to get that next drink, and the playing style involves acting constantly on impulse without any long-term plan. This has been tested and the game can definitely be played this way, and the results can be hilarious and great fun. I suggest you do not delete it but incorporate it into your Lifestyle section--[[User:216.55.202.19|216.55.202.19]] 11:48, 29 January 2009 (EST)

::If you have an objection to one of the articles under deletion review, it would be appropriate to comment on the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|Deletion Review]] page linked to on the Deletion Review box at the top of that page.

== Magical Storing ==

what if you enchanted an amulet or something like "amulet of magical storage" and then you can justify carrying more than usual. like pretend like all the items are magically stored and then removed when wanted. [[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 22:01, 15 January 2009 (EST)

: Wouldn't that sort of eliminate the point? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 23:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)
not necessarily because you could be a mage and probably get away with it.[[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 09:09, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== some personal objections ==

The "cannot be used to play the game" concept of deletion doesn’t make any sense to me could someone explain it? It’s just a behavior pattern you'd have your character practice to get in to a certain role so it seems perfectly reasonable that it would be there. And "can not be done without mods" that’s what the note about mods is for! honestly i just think its ridicules. Why limit our entries to what is possible in the vanilla game? Modding is a very popular practice among players of the PC version of the game.so I don’t see what the problem is. [[User:71.87.144.230|71.87.144.230]] 07:05, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:This has been discussed before... on this page. To quote [[User:Nephele|Nephele]] in the [[#|discussion above]];
:*''"The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''"... "In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods."... "This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game."''
:*''"The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''"... "Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist."''
:My thoughts on the topics: Roleplaying articles should be restricted to roles that can be used to play the game. If playing the role means that you cannot actually play the game as it was designed, then it does not have anything to do with TES, and can likely be accomplished with any RPG. Roles described in these articles should also be possible without use of the console or mods. There's nothing wrong with a mod that enhances a role, but if the role is not possible in the vanilla game, then, once again, it's not really related to TES, and could likely be accomplished with third-party mods on most RPGs.
:There were no arguments against either of these guidelines, a consensus was reached, and the main article of this page was updated to reflect these new contribution guidelines. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 19:38, 5 February 2009 (EST)

::Obviously, some people forget that RPG stands for '''Role-Playing''' Game. The idea that these things should be possible without Mods is fine, but what about roleplaying as a Priest, a Healer, a Prisoner or other things that don't involve "doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience"? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 22:12, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:If a third-party mod or a console command is neccessary to carry off the effect described by the roleplaying article, then that statement excludes any and all players who lack either the capability or the mods being used. Any suggested roleplaying idea should, at least, have the grace of being possible to execute by any player who reads that suggestion. —[[User:Dark Spark|Dark Spark]] 22:59, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:: Debatra has a good point. These different ideas don't necessarily need to advance the character in the game. This page contained some interesting ideas, and there was no reason to delete them. However, it does need to be a character that is playable. Otherwise it truly is pointless. My only protest is that some good, playable ideas were deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

:::This page contains really interesting ideas, and I fail at seeing any problems with it. Maybe I'm just slow? Why do people keep complaning about using consoles or mods, what's the use in being "Oblivion purists" while those things could make roleplaying a whole other thing? If it was a multiplayer game, then yes, it could be quite the problem, hacking and such. But it's single-player, everyone should be free to RP in the way he/she feels like. And if you're just a console player who's feeling envious, this is not the place to waste your anger on. Thanks. {{unsigned|Newyn|6 March 2009}}

::::I think the reason Nephele put that in about about them needing to not require mods or the console to use is that ''anyone'' that wants to should be able to use these, however if you have something specific in mind ask someone like GuildKnight, or TheRealLurlock about creating a category; maybe something like: Roleplaying -> PC and then put whatever sub categories are required afterward.

== The Old RPs.. ==

May i ask why all the old Roleplays were removed?? Like Mr Nice guy - ok we could possabley change the name but they are all Roles that we can play.. With mods/Console or without they are still roleplays...

'''''Suggestions plaease''''' {{unsigned|Target|7 April 2009}}

:See the Deletion Review entry [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review#Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|here]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 22:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

::The old Roleplays that were removed were of poor quality. Half of them had less than 5 sentences of information and were pointless. As you can see the new Roleplays are of a much higher standard and give plenty of information, pictures and tips. If you can make a Roleplay that is of equal standard, we will be happy to keep it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 04:22, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Still, why remove some of them when they just needed work. {{unsigned|Target|8 April 2009}}
: They didn't just need work. They were deleted because they were beyond salvage, either because they duplicated other, better-written ideas, or because they had no hope of ever being expanded. You're lucky that the other roleplays didn't share the same fate: I think most people would prefer that they were all just deleted. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:40, 9 April 2009 (EDT)

Is not the purpose of Oblivion, and indeed, most roleplaying games to play the game how you want? If you wish to do a roleplay here is an area where you can look and gain ideas from other users. For the motto of the game is 'live another life in another world'.
–-[[User:Veltas|Veltas]]•[[User_Talk:Veltas|T]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Veltas|E]]• 23:59 10 May 2009 (EDT)

:Veltas has a point. I agree, some were stupid, but most could've been revised rather than deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 04:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

::Any that could have been revised were rewritten and/or merged with another article. The only was that were deleted were the ones that were beyond salvage. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 04:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== .hack rp's ==

-Ok, i wanted to ask if i could make a whole new thing for roleplaying? If you've ever played .hack its basically a not-online mmorpg for ps2. In it theres a lot of different classes and stuff and i wanted to make a roleplay of .hack where you pretty much pretend that the you're playing a person whos playing oblivion may sound wierd but i think it could be fun.
In the original version of The World, there were six classes.

-Blademaster(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Heavy Axeman(use only axes)
-Heavy Blade(use only two-handed blades)
-Long Arm(okay, in the world thes guys use spears, so this one would have to be staves or something.)
-Twin Blade(i really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)
-Wavemaster(spell user)

but theres also the new one with

-Adept Rogue( basically you would use multiple classes, but you can only have your final amount add up to 4 points, for example, Blade briandier costs 1 point and shadow warlock costs 3, so that would be all you could get.)
-Blade Brandier/1 point(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Macabre Dancer/3 points(these guys use fans and spells in .hack so i dont know how they could be played)
-Edge Punisher/1 point(use only two-handed blades)
-Flick Reaper/2 points(they use scythes, so i dont know how they could be played)
-Harvest Cleric/3 points(mainly use healing spells)
-Lord Partizan/2 points(they use gigantic spears and axes, so two-handed axes would be good)
-Shadow Warlock/3 points(mainly use attack spells.
-Steam Gunner/3 points(could not be played unless instead f a gun, you use a bow)
-Tribal Grappler/2 points(wear gloves and use hand to hand combat)
-Twin Blade(I really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)

It would be cool though because you'd pretend that the pc's in the game are other players of the world and you can get followers and make a party, and you could preend places are areas, and you could be a PK(player killer) or a PKK(Player killer killer) and you could pretend that the arena is lumina cloth and you need to become the Emporer of it( in dot hack that means champion)

Anyways, just a sugeestion but i think this would be really fun.
Doom Knight 22:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

:Roleplays from other games usually don't work. If you insist I'd recommend reading the guidelines for adding good roleplay sections. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Teleportation ==

I can't decide whether or not to add this to the traveling section, opinions will be appreciated. Anyway, With the frostcraig spire add on your really can teleport to the cities via the mages guilds portals. Then you can use them to get back.I already have the Battlehorn Castle DLC and im thinking about getting frostcraig spire as well. If you are in the same situation then you can use the spire to teleport to chorrol and walk to your castle. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 00:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:The specific usage of teleporting to Chorrol to get to Battlehorn Castle probably isn't appropriate, but I see nothing wrong with mentioning that roleplayers who don't like fast travel can save time by using Frostcrag Spire since there's an explanation for why teleportation is possible. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::The Battlehorn thing was more of an examlple of the idea rather then something i meant to be in the article, my bad, i should have made it clear. Anyway, ill add that to the article then, thanks for the opinion --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 03:33, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Swimming ==

Somewhere it should be mentioned that for added realism, the player should take off most or all of their clothes or armor before swimming. I'd add it myself but I'm not sure of the best place for it.--[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 05:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's already mentioned; [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Miscellaneous|Here]], it says in the third bullet point, "Bathe periodically by taking off your clothes and swimming. Wash your clothes, too, by dropping them in the water. For more realism, drop them in a sunny place and wait for them to dry; if it's cloudy, wait a bit longer." --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 17:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, my bad, must have missed that bit. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 18:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Miscellaneous ==

''Make a permanent Command Creature spell and cast it on a wolf to have a dog that follows you around.''

How do you make a permanent command creature spell? I know you can make spells at the arcane university, but how would you make a permanent one? --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 01:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::You can't, at least not that I know (I play on xbox), probably it's possible in the PC using the console or the CS. You can, however, stack effects but you will have to cast the spell continuosly.--[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] 03:03, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Ah, I see. thank you. Maybe once I get to the university (when i feel like it *is lazy*) ill see if I can make a strong spell. --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 04:16, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Good point. I don't recall how one would make a permanent spell in Oblivion. I've removed the note altogether as it's not helpful because it doesn't provide a how-to. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 12:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, providing you have it for PC, you could always make it "Command Creature for 100,000 seconds OnTouched, power spell, use once per day, cost 0 magicka" and it'd work out, granted you'de have to recast it daily. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 18:04, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Some of my edits were removed, I checked with the guidelines and they were perfectly fine? Why'd they get removed then? ;( {{unsigned|Daedric Crayons|14 December 2009}}
:The reason your edits were changed/reverted was explained in the edit summaries. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 05:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

== Main Quest ==

If your roleplaying the main quest one thing to do is be level 25+ before starting. this might not sound like a big deal but think about it, how realistic would it be if you beet the main quest at level 4 and all you ever see in oblivion is stunted scamps. this way you will be up against the toughest draemora. not a big point but i find it importaint when playing the main quest. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 12:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8
:Although I agree, I don't think that is an element of roleplaying. This is more of a simple suggestion. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 22:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
ok. just thought i would through that out there. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 20:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8

He's got a good point though and I would suggest it being considered to be added into the main article. I mean, how can Mehrunes Dagon, the Daedric prince of destruction conquer Tamriel with an army of Scamps?

I prefer to start the main quest at level 1 and then level to the maximum after the Dagon Shrine quest as if Mehrunes Dagon was saying "Thats it, he stole my book, this is serious business, kill the moron."[[Special:Contributions/120.16.175.117|120.16.175.117]] 06:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

== Don't Delete This Page!! ==

For freaks sake people, role playing games are NEVER perfect. We're never allowed to do what we want to do. Call me a 4 yr. old, but its called pretending, and we can do it if we want! Why delete this page? If you dislike it, get off of it imo.... {{Unsigned|74.177.104.65|18 December 2009}}

:Where does it say this page is up for deletion? --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:06, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::I think there has been some talk about it, but I'm not sure. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 19:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't delete it, it's quite good and when you actually do some of it - it's fun!{{Unsigned|Daedric Crayons|18 December 2009}}
:It isn't proposed for deletion, if it were it would have the the specific tag (<nowiki>{{prod}}</nowiki>). I think that this whole concern came from [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Articles&diff=next&oldid=232215 here], and as you can see, it was a long time ago. --[[Special:Contributions/S'drassa|MC]]• [[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 22:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::Good, ive found it..useful. [[User:General Badrang|General Badrang]] 22:57, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

When I found this page I laughed at some of the suggestions. But when I play these days I have began incorporating some of the suggestions in the article into my game, such as providing more backstory to my character and giving him more emotion allowing me to intereact more with him. Due to this, I have managed to reach a higher level and do much more in game with this character (my third playthrough) and using certain aspects of this page it just makes it more fun to do. There are some suggestions that are very foolish (pretend your dying by eating a poison apple, who would keep that up throughout the game?) but personally I think they should be kept in purely because they are hilarious. ~SamGhadiali

'''PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS PAGE ISN'T PROPOSED FOR DELETION ANY MORE AND HASN'T BEEN FOR A LONG TIME!!!!!''' [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I'm thinking about redoing every specific character idea. ==

I'm thinking about giving specific character ideas a reveamp. Every idea, such as warrior, thief, samurai, cook, etc. will be given the same layout. This layout was made to be easy to read and informative, and give more information that ideas currently do. At the moment there really isn't one decided-upon way to make a new roleplying idea, so some of the new ones end up as a bulleted list, some a wall of text, and most are something in-between. This new format is neither. Instead of explaining it to you, here it is:

====Template====
'''Character Type'''

*Race: What ones are the best for the character, what ones aren't, and why.
*Class: What specializations and skills are best for roleplaying the character. A Thief doesn't need Heavy Armor. Almost 100% of the time, a custom class with up to 7 skill suggestions will be shown.
*Looks: This doesn't matter as much. This area specifies whether character might need a beard, or have to look neat, or if they'd usually have to be a male or female.

'''Equipment'''

Suggests what sort of equipment the specific character would need. Lockpicks for a Thief, staffs for a Wizard, swords for a Knight. This section may also say what equipment the character shouldn't have, and what kind of things they would take as loot or to wear.
*Clothes:
*Food:
*Weapons/Armor:
*Other:

'''Backstory'''

This area outlines why the character is what it is. This section can be very large or small, depending on how freeform the idea is. It should at least explain what the character is, allies and enemies of the character, and what it does. This section can also provide suggestions of a starting story for the character, certain quirks about it, and motives for what it does.

'''Ideas/Activities'''

This is not a bulleted list of everything that this character does, but instead should be treated as a few suggestions and ideas to give a clear example of what the character does. The reader should do a couple of these things with their character so that they know what the character does and how it acts towards people.

And to show you just how well if works, I'll show a roleplaying idea that doesn't use the template (96% or so of them) and then I'll show you the improved version of it that DOES use the template.

===Boxer===
*Create a male Redguard, Nord, Orc, or Khajiit with Hand to Hand, Speechcraft, Athletics, Light Armor, Block, and whatever else as major skills, choose combat as their specialty, and Strength and Endurance as preferred attributes.

*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.

When you're not in combat in the Arena, wear a pair of pants that are either your training pants, (some simple cloth pants most lower-class characters wear) or some enchanted light armor greaves with Fortify Fatigue or Hand to Hand. When in the Arena, wear the Light Raiment. As expected, box your opponents to death. You can use a Disintegrate Weapon spell to force the Arena combatants to fight you in a legitimate boxing match.

Never wear shoes. Or a shirt, most of the time. You can often wear some wristbands however. Make many Restore Fatigue potions called Energy Drink. When you are punching someone and you are running out of Fatigue, drink them.

Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.

* {{pc22}}If you have the PC version, beat up essential NPCS, knock them unconscious, rinse, repeat, then delete the bounty and hostility with the console. This also works if you have the Staff of the Everscamp, which grants you unlimited scamps to beat up. Another good training technique is at [[Oblivion:Peryite|Peryite's Shrine]] (check page to see and prevent bug) because you don't get a bounty for hitting them and they never die.

It's short, not too informative, but it looks like a fun idea. What if it was easier to read and had more info?

===Boxer===
'''Character Type'''

*Race: For a traditional boxer, the human races work best, especially Redguard and Imperial. Any race is fine though.
*Class: You'll want to specialize in combat. The essential skills for a boxer are Hand to Hand, Athletics, and Block. Anything else is up to you.
*Looks: You might want your character to look beat up, with a slightly disfigured face.

'''Equipment'''

*Clothes: A male boxer just needs pants and some good shoes. Outside matches, a boxer would wear clothes for any social class, depending on how much money the boxer has.
*Food: Any boxer should have a healthy diet consisting of plenty of meat, vegetables, and water. Water? Make a potion with a Restore Fatigue effect, and name it Water (Or buy one) and drink it regularly. You can use the Duplication Glitch for infinite water.
*Weapons/Armor: Of course, this character fights with his fists for a weapon. However, you may want to put leather gauntlets on him/her instead of proper boxing gloves. Since most of your fighting will be done in the IC Arena, you'll have to wear the Light or Heavy Raiment.
*Other: Outside of the arena, you are basically a normal citizen.

'''Backstory'''

Boxers are trained fighters who fight for entertainment across the world. They usually fight inside a square ring, and with special gloves to make sure that their hands and other body parts aren't too injured during matches. Rules in a boxing match vary from league to league, but usually, the person who has the most physical strength and fleetness of foot wins. As a boxer in Cyrodiil, you'll be in the only fight league there is. The Imperial City Arena. You have no enemies or allies that you don't make yourself, and if you become arena champion, you'll have a lot of fans. Remember, Boxers train a lot and entertain the masses!

'''Ideas/Activities'''
*Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.
*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.
*You can learn alchemy and make potions that restore your fatigue and health over time, and call them 'Energy Drinks'
*You could learn destruction and cast spells that break your opponents' weapons during fights so that the fight becomes a pure fist fight.
*Perhaps you're out to prove that you can fight with your fists as well as anybody can fight with a sword. Be creative!

Tada! This new version was rushed, because I have to go soon, but I hope you get the idea. So, who approves of this?
[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 21:33, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

:Well its a lot more informative and organized. The section is a eh...popular area and I think it should go in there. For the record, I kinda want to either clean up ''extensively'' or get rid of the section altogether but if we do this and delete some of the more ridiculous categories, it should be much better.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 18:15, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm new to this whole Wiki thing, but I particularly liked the way the Assassin character-type roleplay article was set up. It starts off by describing what the roleplay is. This is helpful, as I never know what to expect when I go to the "Lifestyles" or "Jobs" pages. Within that section, which I think may deserve its own section, it recommends items or skills would be beneficial to that type of character. After that, it has a "Possible Activities" section. This gives you broad and general tips for the role, like say if you just wanted a few ways to make it more realistic for yourself. Then, further down, it lists more specific character ideas, titled "Variations". These sections give precise details that separate that particular style from the others around it. I've had my eye on the roleplaying pages for some time and I thought that this was one of the clearest and easiest ones to read pages I've seen in a long time.

Its just a suggestion, but I think the other character-type roleplaying articles would greatly benefit from following this sort of template. As a comparison, the Ruler page has a handful of sections that are all very similar, so wouldn't it be easier to, like the Assassin page, have a "Possible Activities" section, where all the obvious actions of being a ruler could be identified? Then, if needed, further detail could be given to the specific styles of rulers. This would eliminate so many sections saying the same things repeatedly.

This is just my small contribution to cleaning up the roleplaying section. [[User:Djdontcare|Djdontcare]] 11:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
==Tribesman==

Hey I had an idea, Tribesman!!! Here is an examples:

'''Zulu'''

The Zulu are known for their courage, adaptability and proficient skill with melee weapons. Choose a human race, Redguard recommended due to skin and strength. Use a mace and fists and wear nothing (if your a female you can wear a huntsman's vest) except a very expensive amulet and rings. Use the [[Oblivion:Wabbajack|Wabbajack]] at close range, to imitate an enchanted spear infused with the spirits of fallen Zulu to give it it's magical properties. You can use a Bow and Arrow but that is optional. Live in the outside world and in the hottest climate possible. Have followers and for computer users, use commands to change the race, outfits and everything else that makes a Zulu, a Zulu. For more fun, pretend the nearest city is leading a siege against your little tribe of up to nine and ambush the soldiers posted out the city like the actual Zulu did to the British. Then once a master of Blunt, Hand to Hand and/or Marksman but Archery is not needed, siege the city and kill all guards and break into the castle (you'll have to exit the city for Anvil or Skingrad) and kill the sieging count (if you're not outside Bravil or Leyawiin (after a certain Thieves Guild Quest), you will have to knock them unconscious and if you're outside the Imperial city you'll have to K.O. the High Chancellor). Your mission complete,
go to a cave and call it a shrine. Pray to the spirits, and recieve your last quest: Join the immortal spirits by suicide, go to a section where there are enemies and get killed (undead are recommended so they can be the spirits aiding you in your quest).

Here are some other tribes:

Native Americans

Tutsi

And any other ones you can think of, feel free to edit slightly but keep the general idea there!! {{unsigned|Golden Eagle}}

==Ugh, really==
(spoilers)

Did this page really have to include "...when avenging their death. For example, use Hannibal Traven's staff and robe when confronting Mannimarco". Yes, needlessly spoil the entire mages guild questline when there are thousands of non-specific examples. Why do you put such blatant spoilers in seemingly all user friendly pages? Sorry if I seem upset. But I am, as I find this really unnacceptable. {{unsigned|24.189.164.73|July 16, 2010}}

==Fast Travel==
There, I believe is continous water between the imperial city and anvil, if you are counting the ocean, so I reccomend changing the example to something more able. {{unsigned|67.82.73.143|July 20 2010}}

: Yes, but that's hardly fast is it? You would have to go right round Elsweyr and Valenwood. This is supposed to be about imagining ''faster'' modes of travel. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

==Suggested Mod==
I have seen others use this mod and it is very realistic, if you wish, you can install the Actor's Orb, which allows you to do specific animations like being staggered, creating potions, or sleepig like a vampire. ====

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying

2010-07-23T18:04:25Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Miscellaneous */

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||February 2007 - June 2008
}}
{{TOCright}}

== Better guidelines ==

In the interest of curbing some of the ridiculous stuff that keeps getting added here faster than we can keep up with the deletions, I propose a new set of guidelines for creating roleplaying articles. (Not that anyone will pay attention to them, but at least when people complain that their articles are being removed, we can point to an established policy and say "here's why". So, my proposal would be something like this: (feel free to add to it, comment, etc.)
*All roleplaying ideas must be ''possible'' to do in the game, without mods or console. There's no point in telling people things like "Get married and have a family" when there simply isn't any way to do that in the game as it is designed. (Yes, I'm sure there are probably mods that let you do things like that, but this isn't about mods, and 3rd-party mods are not generally discussed on this site.) The vast majority of roleplaying submissions fail on this account.
*Standing around in one place isn't roleplaying. Thus, an idea like "Be a castle guard" which basically involves just standing around outside the gate for 18 hours a day and then sleeping in the guards quarters isn't really much of an idea. In order to consider it roleplaying, you must actually be ''doing'' something. If you're so bored with this game that you actually resort to such mundane, mindless tasks, it's probably time to put it away and find a new game.
*Collecting items isn't roleplaying. Filling your house with whatever random object you think you want to have a lot of for some reason just doesn't cut it.
*Mass slaughter isn't roleplaying. And it's already been discussed in various places anyhow. A roleplay article which basically amounts to "go everywhere and kill anything that moves" is just pointless.
*Roleplays must be Elder-Scrolls specific. Simply put, there are no Jedi in Tamriel. 'Nuff said.
*If your roleplaying idea basically just amounts to pretending to be your favorite Anime character, it really just doesn't belong here. Besides being impossible to do within the game (see above), if we start allowing articles like this, there's no end to the number of characters people could add. Nobody cares how much you love Pokemon and Dragonball-Z. Keep that stuff on your User page. (This doesn't just apply to Anime, of course. But that seems to be the most common source for named-character roleplays. You also shouldn't add articles suggesting that people play as Batman or the Terminator or Snake from Metal Gear, etc.)
I think if we applied these rules, and enforced them, we could weed out 90% of the horribleness on these pages. Any thoughts? Additions? Angry rants? --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 12:10, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

:Well thought out, Lurlock, these guidelines might just improve the quality of these articles. Many of your suggestions are brought up in earlier discussions, see [[#Cleaning up these articles]]. True roleplaying is perhaps at the core of the TES series, many roleplaying articles here though are a travesty to that idea. --[[User:Benould|Benould]]•[[User_Talk:Benould|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Benould|C]] 13:34, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

::An addition:
::*Ideas should be something ''fun''. Admittedly, that's hard to quantify, but the best way is to simply ask yourself when submitting an idea: "Would I actually ''do'' this?" If the answer is "no", then the odds are that nobody else would either. A roleplay that basically amounts to sitting around and doing the same tedious thing over and over again every day is not likely to be something that anyone will be interested in actually doing.
::--[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 14:52, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:::These seem like good quidelines. I'm not sure they'll help improve anything but, as you say, it will allow easier deletions when the time comes. {{unsigned|Rpeh|14 July 2008}}

While I agree we need to find a way to improve this page, I have a couple of overall problems with the specifics of these proposed guidelines.

First, these guidelines seem judgmental and at times arbitrary. Although most of the ideas on the page are not ones I'd be interested in playing, the fact is that at least one reader has thought that each idea would be interesting. Simply declaring all of those ideas invalid will make the article significantly useful for those who read the article; it will also alienate a significant number of readers. I think there are ways to limit the scope of the article that may ultimately have a similar effect, but will better incorporate the preferences of readers who use the article.

Second, these guidelines don't help in any way to define what we ''do'' want on the page. To make significant, lasting progress towards improving this article will require positive improvements to the article and its structure. We need to have examples of what should be on the page, so that other editors can build on those good examples. We need to find a way to structure the article that limits the overall scope of the article and eliminates redundancy, while also providing a better way for contributors to channel/organize ideas. One key reason why this probably hasn't happened to date is that this type of article revamp requires an experienced editor who is willing to seriously look at the article's contents and understand why readers find the article useful. I don't think that you can help to make the article better if your primary objective is just to delete as much content as possible.

Some more specific nitpicks with these guidelines:
* I don't think there's anything wrong with roleplaying that focuses on collecting items. Several previous articles were specifically related to collecting items, and several more contained elements of collecting. Many players do spend a lot of time collecting items. You can play the game while collecting -- there are even many quests that are just collection missions. I don't see why the whole concept should just be declared invalid.
* Similarly, what exactly is the rationale behind saying that mass slaughter isn't valid roleplaying? Is it a moral argument or is it based upon whether or not the articles contain ideas that readers find useful? A moral argument doesn't seem to hold much water in a game that requires you to assassinate NPCs; I think we have to allow articles on roleplaying evil characters. As for usefulness, my first impression is that several readers have found these
types of articles useful, given that the idea has been proposed several times, in various forms. I would agree that more than one such article would be redundant, but that's true for any given topic.

So, what do I propose instead? I've spent the last couple of days examining these articles pretty closely (and doing a lot of work trying to implement some of my ideas, too). The biggest problems that I see in the Roleplaying articles are:
* Redundancy, redundancy, and more redundancy. Ten articles all of which describe being an assassin in one way or another. General roleplaying ideas that are brought up more than once in the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and then repeated in dozens of subarticles (e.g., how to eat realistically, how to avoid fast travel). No crosslinks to other related roleplaying ideas.
* Poor quality introduction and guidelines on the page (now revised). The previous guidelines repeatedly asked editors to contribute any and all ideas and generally promoted the idea that the article is meant to provide a comprehensive list of roleplaying ideas, which is basically impossible.
* Low editorial standards. This problem is the one that's least likely to be improved in the near future, but I might as well still mention it. Articles and ideas are generally padded with too much emphasis or too many irrelevant details.

To tackle what I see as the real problems I have a few suggestions. Several of these I've already implemented, at least in a preliminary way, to demonstrate what I think is possible. One reason I proceeded to implement some of these ideas is that they can be done without fundamentally eliminating any information from the article and therefore should not be controversial.
* Emphasize in the character roleplaying section that the possibilities are infinite but we are trying to just provide a limited selection of good examples. We can establish some criteria that are used to limit our examples, but those criteria don't mean that other types of roleplaying are less valid.
* Add a [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#General Character Creation|General Character Creation]] section that summarizes the basic outline of dozens of roleplaying articles. This might perhaps encourage readers to follow the checklist to create their own new character (Time Lord, Sith, whatever) without creating a new article just to fill in the checklist. Furthermore, we could start to eliminate articles that consist of nothing but a list of such character creation ideas (e.g., no articles that just provide a list of name/race/skills/equipment).
* Make the individual roleplaying articles be more comprehensive, by merging any related ideas into a single article. I've done this so far for the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Roleplaying/Assassin]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Collector|Roleplaying/Collector]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist|Roleplaying/Scientist]], and [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller|Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller]] articles, in the process reducing some 30 articles into just 4. A given idea (e.g., how to live in the wilderness) should be described only once; similar ideas should be grouped together instead of repeating the same basic ideas. I think for the article to be useful, we need to end up with a list of sub-articles that is short enough to be quickly scanned and digested, so that it's obvious for readers and editors where a given idea is described.
* Aggressively eliminate redundancy. Unfortunately, this is likely to require some familiarity with what exists where. However, if we can improve the article's organization, it should become easier to identify where particular information belongs.

As for limiting type of content actually belongs on the article, I would propose:
* Any roleplaying sub-articles should be '''Elder Scrolls relevant.''' In other words, sub-articles with non-ES names should not exist.
** However, I think there is room to mention non-ES ideas within sub-articles, as specific examples of a type of roleplay. For example, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin#Ninja|Ninja]] section of the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Assassin]] article. The number of such suggestions won't be infinite, because the other criteria will effectively limit the number of relevant non-ES concepts.
* The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''
** Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist.
* The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''
** This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game.
** In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods.
* Any sub-articles have to contain '''substantial, new content.''' In other words, there has to be more than just a list of skills and equipment. There should be recommended activities that are not already covered in the general [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and are not already covered in other roleplaying sub-articles.

While this discussion is underway, I've added requests to the roleplaying article that no new sub-articles be created. I think this is a reasonable request until we've established what we want for content. Once we reach a consensus in this discussion, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Guidelines for Contributions|Guidelines for Contributions]] can be updated to provide the new criteria and allow new sub-articles to be created... as long as they meet the criteria. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 23:54, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:Nephele, I think that your proposed guidelines are a great improvement on Lurlocks set. They are very clearly defined and spelled out, and don't seem judgemental or subjective. I've also read the revamped version of the article and find it much more helpful, being much less cluttered, and generally better written overall. Kudos to you. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 00:10, 15 July 2008 (EDT)0

They are good ideas and 5 or 6 pages with these would be very good. Because i don't want to look about 40 pages to get the idea which i want...{{unsigned|78.184.150.144}}

:New Categories? I have just checked the 'Scientist' category, and the Archaeologist section has been extremely shortened. I feel this lowers the quality of the individual section. Will this happen to other characters who are categorized in this way? Also, many characters are not relevant to the categories, such as the Dark Lord.{{unsigned|89.242.210.48}}

::The four new subarticles are just the first four examples of new, more comprehensive subarticles. There clearly need to be more than just four eventually, once someone is willing to tackle all the required work to create, merge, and rewrite the subarticles. To answer your question, yes, I think that all of the roleplaying articles should be converted over to broader subarticles that combine related ideas into one place.
::Do you have any concrete complaints about the Archaelogist section of the Scientist sub-article? Yes, that one section is shorter than the standalone Archaeologist subarticle. However, in my opinion it's because the quality has increased, not decreased. It's higher quality because:
::* The information that is shared with other Scientist ideas is now listed at the top of the article, or is listed on the cross-referenced Collector article. The result is that the information is provided just once instead of being repeated over and over again; readers no longer have to wade through repeated information to dig out what's new. The number of ideas has been increased, because now related ideas that were hidden on other articles are also available to people interested in being an archaeologist.
::* The combined article makes it easier for readers interested in the general concept to browse for other, related ideas. The chances are that someone who is interested in roleplaying as an archaelogist would find some of the other ideas on the scientist and collector pages interesting. Now those other ideas are easy to find, instead of having to search through the 100+ other articles.
::* Ideas that aren't specific to being an Archaeologist have been removed. For example, "Make sure to keep a trusty weapon (enchanted or silver shortsword preferably) next to you, just in case you meet an angry skeleton or ghost!" This contributes nothing to being an archaelogist and therefore does little other than waste space.
::* Ideas that seemed to be basically pointless have been deleted. Who is seriously going to want to install a mod adding physics to paintbrushes just so you can drag the paintbrush across artifacts and pretend to dust them off? Even if you're sufficiently bored to want to try it once, it's not something you are going to want to do regularly as part of roleplaying. And it's not something that in any way contributes to how you play the game. Personally, I think winnowing out some of the more ridiculous suggestions on the article will only help the article. Readers do not want to be forced to read through dozens of uninteresting ideas -- I believe readers would rather have shorter articles that focus more specifically on information that is interesting to more than one person.
::If you feel that there are valuable ideas on the Archaeologist article that need to be moved to the new article, you are free to move the information. I'd also recommend providing some justification on the talk page, however, because making an article longer does not automatically increase its quality. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:50, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Can I suggest putting this page on hiatus (i.e. protecting it and adding a nrelevant notice at the top) until this issue is resolved? Personally i feel the roleplaying section has caused more problems than its worth and all it does is take up time that could be better spent on the actual wiki. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] [[User Talk:Volanaro|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Volanaro|C]] • [[Special:Emailuser/Volanaro|E]] 08:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Nephele's four basic guidelines seem effective. A suggestion concerning the rhetoric of the "used to play the game" guideline: Any role-playing proposal should describe, in some detail, a '''role''' and a '''style of play''' that follows from that role. A good example is the entry for "vampire hunter," for which there is a clear pattern of gameplay (such as: hunt down vampires, use fire-based attacks to kill them, then turn the vampire dust over to the Order of the Virtuous Blood for cash). Many, perhaps most, of the awful suggestions on the page consist of a role with no actual gameplay that follows from it. -- [[User:Oban|Oban]] 02:29, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:::I agree.

As Nephele has demonstrated with the four revised articles, I would like to point out that most of the ideas in each article should be in note form. I was reading the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Guerrilla Rebel|Guerrilla Rebel]] once, and I found that it was very hard to take it all in because of the 'clumps' of text. It could easily be shortened.

Also, you can include many different ideas by Categorizing them. For example: Articles like Jedi, Terminator ect. could go into a category called Movies or something.

Anything I would have said has already been said by Lurlock and Nephele. If anything, I support this idea no doubt about it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 07:16, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Pacifist ==

I'm going to be a member but I can't create pages for sometime(wiki policy) and I suggest you to create this page and name as pacifist.
Here are the ideas:

Because pacifists can't stand to see harm(human to creature, human to human etc.)(even if the one who's harmed is guilty), i thought it would be a good experience.
Be an orc or nord(for fun :D). Other races will work well (exceptions are imperials and redguards).
Create your custom class (or be an monk(replace hand to hand). Do not bear any aggresive skills.
Select sneak&security if you are the explorer type.
Speechcraft is optional, block is a must-be (To stay out of the harm's way)
Do NOT bear any aggresive spells, or do NOT carry any weapons.
Only attack if someone has mocked you when you have paying homage to your fallen comrades. Feel regret for your attack and redo the pilgrimage.
Stop any fights, or look at a different way.

Add your own ideas or so... idea just came up.

*Interesting idea.
Honestly that sounds like a decent idea... But it can easily be moved into an existing category. Or perhaps get a subarticle created. Priest/religious/whatever you know? It would be a bit of work trying to combine all the priest, monk, etc. from the list into that category, but it certainly would help in the cause.

:You could put it under [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Lifestyles|Roleplaying/Lifestyles]]. {{unsigned|60.240.157.31|11 June 2009}}

== Page Usage ==

Can i ask, how many people actually '''use''' the roleplaying pages? There are numerous articles here but do people actually read these and put the suggestions into practice in TES?--[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] 08:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to guess that only around 50% of registered editors use the ideas. I've only glanced at the pages a few times, but half of the things I couldn't even do (I'm on 360) & that was like about 4-5 months ago. (Thus the recent cleanup.) I think these pages might be used more after the new rules and guidelines.-[[User:Puddle|Puddle]] [[User Talk:Puddle|Talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Puddle|Contribs.]] 13:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

:I love these pages! I visit them one day or the other to see if something new has been added. And yes, I actually use the ideas on the pages in-game. I've some ideas by myself, but none of them are worth an entry yet. They're mostly small additions to what's on these pages already.[[Special:Contributions/87.150.188.109|87.150.188.109]] 19:12, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

== Protection? ==

After the recent spate of vandalism, I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't semi-protect this page, at least until we've finished the cleanup process. Looking back through the history, It seems like every single edit for the past couple weeks has either been vandalism, redundant additions by people who didn't read the "please don't add anything right now" notice, or reverts of the previous. Of course, if we do this, we should make sure that the cleanup happens as quickly as possible, so it doesn't need to stay protected for long, but we need some way of making people understand that this page is being redone, and a notice telling them to stop adding to it obviously isn't working - if anything there have been more edits since the notice was put up than there were before. Semi-protection would at least stop the IP editors from constantly adding redundancy and vandalism to this page until we've finished the restructuring process. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 19:16, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
'''Agree''' - I agree. No-one seems to like to read that notice, so maybe semi-protection is a good option. [[User:Daedryon|Daedryon]]•[[User_Talk:Daedryon|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Daedryon|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Daedryon|E]]• 19:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

As a user of this site, I do indeed use this, and did click the link, because I had a submission I wanted to make but wanted to read what was going on first. I would like to vouch that people are indeed doing that, and that people don't completely ignore the guidelines.

== New payment ==

I read through this page alot, and whenever I see the 'You can get paid by using the console, or through stealing'
I realize there is another way. You can duplicate items worth around 100 gold near the person who pays you, and whenever they do pay you, take one. A suggestion for such an item are soul gems. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:54, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Better guidelines followup ==
The discussion about possible guidelines has remained silent for nearly a month; has a consensus been made elsewhere? In the meantime, the articles are still there, waiting to be cleaned up, but the guidelines are still "on the drawing board". The note on the bottom of the page has been ignored or remained unseen by some; new articles are being created, which don't folow any guidelines, but are essentially just an extension of existing pages or types of roleplay. (Which is exactly what we/you are trying to prevent.)

In short: how far are we/you with those guidelines? --[[User:LordDagon|LordDagon]][[User_talk:LordDagon|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/LordDagon|C]] 11:03, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Why does this section exist in the first place? ==

:I can understand wanting to play characters to certain guidelines. I do it myself (my last character was effectively a ghost)... but most of the suggestions given here are ludicrous.
:Teleport amulet delusions, leaving money around to pretend to be paid later, annotating NPCs' words for them, getting lost in the woods and huddling under rocky overhangs to avoid the rain? Adventurers in pajamas, food poisoning, inviting Arena fans into your house, pretending to shag the maid, walking through the wilderness with a set of armour for every occasion (total weight = several hundred)? ... And I thought my brief spate of having partial Chameleon, immunity to Normal Weapons (and frost), an Invisible horse, only coming out at night and going around casting Demoralise on NPCs was crazy!
:
: Most important though... surely anyone who has the inclination to roleplay will figure out the means for themselves... right? If they don't want to use a certain game feature because it seems unrealistic, then they won't use it. The point is that roleplaying is supposed to be creative... not just following a set of someone else's guidelines and suggestions. ~ [[User:SotiCoto|SotiCoto]] 18:40, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::Personally, I agree with you, and I think this part of the site has been a thorn in my side for quite some time, but it does seem to be fairly popular, so some people must like it. I've advocated getting rid of it on several occasions, but I doubt it's going to happen, because wikis are run by the community, and a large enough portion of the community seems to want these pages to stay that it's unlikely to change any time soon. The best we can do is try and keep them under control, so that it doesn't just blow up out of proportion and bring the rest of the site down with it. We've been trying to do that by combining the subpage articles into larger, more general articles, and removing the more ridiculous ideas that either aren't technically feasable, or not likely to be appealing to any sane person. (e.g. "Be a castle guard! Stand around outside the gate for 18 hours and then go rest in the barracks!") But it's a slow process, mainly because the people who have the skills to effectively do this polishing and culling of the worst parts of this section mostly don't care enough about these pages to put in the effort. I've adopted a policy of grudging tolerance, and try to do my best to ignore what goes on here for the most part, stepping in only when there's clear need to do so. (Some of the ideas posted have been rather controversial, offensive, or - let's just say inappropriate for younger audiences. These usually get taken down pretty quickly.) If you'd like to help with this process, your assistance would be appreciated. Otherwise, I'd just say let it go and don't worry too much about it. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 23:24, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Allow me to represent the ones who enjoy this page and say there would be a firestorm if it was removed. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:46, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

I must say that I remember back the days where it was a small little section of "Things to do when you are bored", and it opened my eyes to alot of cool ways to RP in the game. I use these advice alot, they usually give me some good ideas. Im not talking about making a char thats some weirdo standing and waiting all day long.
Im talking about Roleplaying the character you have, then maybe having a RP sidejob too. Like currently im a crusader, back the days of KOTN i created the crusader part of the RP section. Its grown alot since then and I use that information too. - Fireresistance vs Flaming (elderscrolls forum)

To be honest, I think if you dont like the Roleplaying section, just dont bother with it, ignore it, UESP has the entire internet to expand, so you people that don't like it just leave it be, people such as myself find the ideas entertaining to read and perform, no offense anyone but I mean come on, its just a roleplay section for the few of us who like to really get into our characters after we've beaten the game (Complete Main Quest/Factions) X amount of times, so we like new ideas other than make a new character and do it all over again for the 5th or 6th time [[User:Zalphon|Zalphon]] 20:16, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:I have to agree with SotiCoto. I definitely see the origins of this page in what Zalphon called "Things to do when you're bored". Anyone into RP will come up with their own ideas, and many of these suggestions are more than a bit odd (I half expected to see the "shag the maid" idea in this list). The only people who actually need suggestions like this are...well, people who are bored. Here's some advice: if the game bores you so much, ''quit and play another game'', or turn off the computer or console and live your life.
:And I also have to respond to this ridiculousness about Fast Travel being unrealistic. Fast Travel is '''not''' teleportation. Time passes in-game when you Fast Travel. Don't believe me? Check the date and time in the map tab in the journal before and after Fast Travelling. It takes about an hour and fifteen minutes to Fast Travel by Chestnut horse from IC to Aleswell, and a little over an hour to FT from Aleswell to Bruma. That's approximately the same amount of in-game time it would have taken to do it yourself if you followed the main roads and did not meet any encounters. Travel is ''not'' instantaneous. The only benefit from FT is that is saves you real-world time and effort, but it has its downsides too:
:* You cannot discover POI while FT, and you will miss out on some wondrous scenery.
:* FT follows the main roads, which may or may not be the fastest and most direct route (bad when you are role-playing some sort of time constraint, and explains why it takes over four hours to FT on foot from Vilverin to the Market District in IC when you can run it in just under an hour).
:* You do not encounter anything on the road while FT, so you will miss out on xp and drops (I personally only use FT when I would follow the main road anyway and I know the area has already been cleared and has not reset).
:There are many, many things in the game that are ridiculously unrealistic (like everyone in the world telling the exact same stories word for word, and guards all over the country knowing that you committed a crime at the instant you commit it). Fast Travel is not one of them. Here endeth the rant. [[User:Phelaran|Phelaran]] 14:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

== Character roleplay idea ==

I think that a nice addition to the sperfic charcater creation section would be criminal for bandits and the like.[[User:121.218.222.125|121.218.222.125]] 02:53, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Revamp proposal discussion ==

I've posted a proposal for a revamp of the Roleplaying pages [[User talk:GuildKnight/Sandbox/1|here]]. Please chime in. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 06:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)

:If "Skooma Addict" can be a lifestyle, why can't "Drunkard" be one? The rules are similar: the objective is to get that next drink, and the playing style involves acting constantly on impulse without any long-term plan. This has been tested and the game can definitely be played this way, and the results can be hilarious and great fun. I suggest you do not delete it but incorporate it into your Lifestyle section--[[User:216.55.202.19|216.55.202.19]] 11:48, 29 January 2009 (EST)

::If you have an objection to one of the articles under deletion review, it would be appropriate to comment on the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|Deletion Review]] page linked to on the Deletion Review box at the top of that page.

== Magical Storing ==

what if you enchanted an amulet or something like "amulet of magical storage" and then you can justify carrying more than usual. like pretend like all the items are magically stored and then removed when wanted. [[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 22:01, 15 January 2009 (EST)

: Wouldn't that sort of eliminate the point? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 23:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)
not necessarily because you could be a mage and probably get away with it.[[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 09:09, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== some personal objections ==

The "cannot be used to play the game" concept of deletion doesn’t make any sense to me could someone explain it? It’s just a behavior pattern you'd have your character practice to get in to a certain role so it seems perfectly reasonable that it would be there. And "can not be done without mods" that’s what the note about mods is for! honestly i just think its ridicules. Why limit our entries to what is possible in the vanilla game? Modding is a very popular practice among players of the PC version of the game.so I don’t see what the problem is. [[User:71.87.144.230|71.87.144.230]] 07:05, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:This has been discussed before... on this page. To quote [[User:Nephele|Nephele]] in the [[#|discussion above]];
:*''"The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''"... "In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods."... "This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game."''
:*''"The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''"... "Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist."''
:My thoughts on the topics: Roleplaying articles should be restricted to roles that can be used to play the game. If playing the role means that you cannot actually play the game as it was designed, then it does not have anything to do with TES, and can likely be accomplished with any RPG. Roles described in these articles should also be possible without use of the console or mods. There's nothing wrong with a mod that enhances a role, but if the role is not possible in the vanilla game, then, once again, it's not really related to TES, and could likely be accomplished with third-party mods on most RPGs.
:There were no arguments against either of these guidelines, a consensus was reached, and the main article of this page was updated to reflect these new contribution guidelines. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 19:38, 5 February 2009 (EST)

::Obviously, some people forget that RPG stands for '''Role-Playing''' Game. The idea that these things should be possible without Mods is fine, but what about roleplaying as a Priest, a Healer, a Prisoner or other things that don't involve "doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience"? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 22:12, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:If a third-party mod or a console command is neccessary to carry off the effect described by the roleplaying article, then that statement excludes any and all players who lack either the capability or the mods being used. Any suggested roleplaying idea should, at least, have the grace of being possible to execute by any player who reads that suggestion. —[[User:Dark Spark|Dark Spark]] 22:59, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:: Debatra has a good point. These different ideas don't necessarily need to advance the character in the game. This page contained some interesting ideas, and there was no reason to delete them. However, it does need to be a character that is playable. Otherwise it truly is pointless. My only protest is that some good, playable ideas were deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

:::This page contains really interesting ideas, and I fail at seeing any problems with it. Maybe I'm just slow? Why do people keep complaning about using consoles or mods, what's the use in being "Oblivion purists" while those things could make roleplaying a whole other thing? If it was a multiplayer game, then yes, it could be quite the problem, hacking and such. But it's single-player, everyone should be free to RP in the way he/she feels like. And if you're just a console player who's feeling envious, this is not the place to waste your anger on. Thanks. {{unsigned|Newyn|6 March 2009}}

::::I think the reason Nephele put that in about about them needing to not require mods or the console to use is that ''anyone'' that wants to should be able to use these, however if you have something specific in mind ask someone like GuildKnight, or TheRealLurlock about creating a category; maybe something like: Roleplaying -> PC and then put whatever sub categories are required afterward.

== The Old RPs.. ==

May i ask why all the old Roleplays were removed?? Like Mr Nice guy - ok we could possabley change the name but they are all Roles that we can play.. With mods/Console or without they are still roleplays...

'''''Suggestions plaease''''' {{unsigned|Target|7 April 2009}}

:See the Deletion Review entry [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review#Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|here]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 22:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

::The old Roleplays that were removed were of poor quality. Half of them had less than 5 sentences of information and were pointless. As you can see the new Roleplays are of a much higher standard and give plenty of information, pictures and tips. If you can make a Roleplay that is of equal standard, we will be happy to keep it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 04:22, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Still, why remove some of them when they just needed work. {{unsigned|Target|8 April 2009}}
: They didn't just need work. They were deleted because they were beyond salvage, either because they duplicated other, better-written ideas, or because they had no hope of ever being expanded. You're lucky that the other roleplays didn't share the same fate: I think most people would prefer that they were all just deleted. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:40, 9 April 2009 (EDT)

Is not the purpose of Oblivion, and indeed, most roleplaying games to play the game how you want? If you wish to do a roleplay here is an area where you can look and gain ideas from other users. For the motto of the game is 'live another life in another world'.
–-[[User:Veltas|Veltas]]•[[User_Talk:Veltas|T]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Veltas|E]]• 23:59 10 May 2009 (EDT)

:Veltas has a point. I agree, some were stupid, but most could've been revised rather than deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 04:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

::Any that could have been revised were rewritten and/or merged with another article. The only was that were deleted were the ones that were beyond salvage. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 04:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== .hack rp's ==

-Ok, i wanted to ask if i could make a whole new thing for roleplaying? If you've ever played .hack its basically a not-online mmorpg for ps2. In it theres a lot of different classes and stuff and i wanted to make a roleplay of .hack where you pretty much pretend that the you're playing a person whos playing oblivion may sound wierd but i think it could be fun.
In the original version of The World, there were six classes.

-Blademaster(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Heavy Axeman(use only axes)
-Heavy Blade(use only two-handed blades)
-Long Arm(okay, in the world thes guys use spears, so this one would have to be staves or something.)
-Twin Blade(i really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)
-Wavemaster(spell user)

but theres also the new one with

-Adept Rogue( basically you would use multiple classes, but you can only have your final amount add up to 4 points, for example, Blade briandier costs 1 point and shadow warlock costs 3, so that would be all you could get.)
-Blade Brandier/1 point(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Macabre Dancer/3 points(these guys use fans and spells in .hack so i dont know how they could be played)
-Edge Punisher/1 point(use only two-handed blades)
-Flick Reaper/2 points(they use scythes, so i dont know how they could be played)
-Harvest Cleric/3 points(mainly use healing spells)
-Lord Partizan/2 points(they use gigantic spears and axes, so two-handed axes would be good)
-Shadow Warlock/3 points(mainly use attack spells.
-Steam Gunner/3 points(could not be played unless instead f a gun, you use a bow)
-Tribal Grappler/2 points(wear gloves and use hand to hand combat)
-Twin Blade(I really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)

It would be cool though because you'd pretend that the pc's in the game are other players of the world and you can get followers and make a party, and you could preend places are areas, and you could be a PK(player killer) or a PKK(Player killer killer) and you could pretend that the arena is lumina cloth and you need to become the Emporer of it( in dot hack that means champion)

Anyways, just a sugeestion but i think this would be really fun.
Doom Knight 22:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

:Roleplays from other games usually don't work. If you insist I'd recommend reading the guidelines for adding good roleplay sections. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Teleportation ==

I can't decide whether or not to add this to the traveling section, opinions will be appreciated. Anyway, With the frostcraig spire add on your really can teleport to the cities via the mages guilds portals. Then you can use them to get back.I already have the Battlehorn Castle DLC and im thinking about getting frostcraig spire as well. If you are in the same situation then you can use the spire to teleport to chorrol and walk to your castle. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 00:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:The specific usage of teleporting to Chorrol to get to Battlehorn Castle probably isn't appropriate, but I see nothing wrong with mentioning that roleplayers who don't like fast travel can save time by using Frostcrag Spire since there's an explanation for why teleportation is possible. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::The Battlehorn thing was more of an examlple of the idea rather then something i meant to be in the article, my bad, i should have made it clear. Anyway, ill add that to the article then, thanks for the opinion --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 03:33, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Swimming ==

Somewhere it should be mentioned that for added realism, the player should take off most or all of their clothes or armor before swimming. I'd add it myself but I'm not sure of the best place for it.--[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 05:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's already mentioned; [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Miscellaneous|Here]], it says in the third bullet point, "Bathe periodically by taking off your clothes and swimming. Wash your clothes, too, by dropping them in the water. For more realism, drop them in a sunny place and wait for them to dry; if it's cloudy, wait a bit longer." --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 17:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, my bad, must have missed that bit. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 18:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Miscellaneous ==

''Make a permanent Command Creature spell and cast it on a wolf to have a dog that follows you around.''

How do you make a permanent command creature spell? I know you can make spells at the arcane university, but how would you make a permanent one? --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 01:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::You can't, at least not that I know (I play on xbox), probably it's possible in the PC using the console or the CS. You can, however, stack effects but you will have to cast the spell continuosly.--[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] 03:03, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Ah, I see. thank you. Maybe once I get to the university (when i feel like it *is lazy*) ill see if I can make a strong spell. --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 04:16, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Good point. I don't recall how one would make a permanent spell in Oblivion. I've removed the note altogether as it's not helpful because it doesn't provide a how-to. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 12:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, providing you have it for PC, you could always make it "Command Creature for 100,000 seconds OnTouched, power spell, use once per day, cost 0 magicka" and it'd work out, granted you'de have to recast it daily. ====

== Edits ==

Some of my edits were removed, I checked with the guidelines and they were perfectly fine? Why'd they get removed then? ;( {{unsigned|Daedric Crayons|14 December 2009}}
:The reason your edits were changed/reverted was explained in the edit summaries. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 05:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

== Main Quest ==

If your roleplaying the main quest one thing to do is be level 25+ before starting. this might not sound like a big deal but think about it, how realistic would it be if you beet the main quest at level 4 and all you ever see in oblivion is stunted scamps. this way you will be up against the toughest draemora. not a big point but i find it importaint when playing the main quest. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 12:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8
:Although I agree, I don't think that is an element of roleplaying. This is more of a simple suggestion. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 22:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
ok. just thought i would through that out there. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 20:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8

He's got a good point though and I would suggest it being considered to be added into the main article. I mean, how can Mehrunes Dagon, the Daedric prince of destruction conquer Tamriel with an army of Scamps?

I prefer to start the main quest at level 1 and then level to the maximum after the Dagon Shrine quest as if Mehrunes Dagon was saying "Thats it, he stole my book, this is serious business, kill the moron."[[Special:Contributions/120.16.175.117|120.16.175.117]] 06:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

== Don't Delete This Page!! ==

For freaks sake people, role playing games are NEVER perfect. We're never allowed to do what we want to do. Call me a 4 yr. old, but its called pretending, and we can do it if we want! Why delete this page? If you dislike it, get off of it imo.... {{Unsigned|74.177.104.65|18 December 2009}}

:Where does it say this page is up for deletion? --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:06, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::I think there has been some talk about it, but I'm not sure. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 19:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't delete it, it's quite good and when you actually do some of it - it's fun!{{Unsigned|Daedric Crayons|18 December 2009}}
:It isn't proposed for deletion, if it were it would have the the specific tag (<nowiki>{{prod}}</nowiki>). I think that this whole concern came from [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Articles&diff=next&oldid=232215 here], and as you can see, it was a long time ago. --[[Special:Contributions/S'drassa|MC]]• [[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 22:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::Good, ive found it..useful. [[User:General Badrang|General Badrang]] 22:57, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

When I found this page I laughed at some of the suggestions. But when I play these days I have began incorporating some of the suggestions in the article into my game, such as providing more backstory to my character and giving him more emotion allowing me to intereact more with him. Due to this, I have managed to reach a higher level and do much more in game with this character (my third playthrough) and using certain aspects of this page it just makes it more fun to do. There are some suggestions that are very foolish (pretend your dying by eating a poison apple, who would keep that up throughout the game?) but personally I think they should be kept in purely because they are hilarious. ~SamGhadiali

'''PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS PAGE ISN'T PROPOSED FOR DELETION ANY MORE AND HASN'T BEEN FOR A LONG TIME!!!!!''' [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I'm thinking about redoing every specific character idea. ==

I'm thinking about giving specific character ideas a reveamp. Every idea, such as warrior, thief, samurai, cook, etc. will be given the same layout. This layout was made to be easy to read and informative, and give more information that ideas currently do. At the moment there really isn't one decided-upon way to make a new roleplying idea, so some of the new ones end up as a bulleted list, some a wall of text, and most are something in-between. This new format is neither. Instead of explaining it to you, here it is:

====Template====
'''Character Type'''

*Race: What ones are the best for the character, what ones aren't, and why.
*Class: What specializations and skills are best for roleplaying the character. A Thief doesn't need Heavy Armor. Almost 100% of the time, a custom class with up to 7 skill suggestions will be shown.
*Looks: This doesn't matter as much. This area specifies whether character might need a beard, or have to look neat, or if they'd usually have to be a male or female.

'''Equipment'''

Suggests what sort of equipment the specific character would need. Lockpicks for a Thief, staffs for a Wizard, swords for a Knight. This section may also say what equipment the character shouldn't have, and what kind of things they would take as loot or to wear.
*Clothes:
*Food:
*Weapons/Armor:
*Other:

'''Backstory'''

This area outlines why the character is what it is. This section can be very large or small, depending on how freeform the idea is. It should at least explain what the character is, allies and enemies of the character, and what it does. This section can also provide suggestions of a starting story for the character, certain quirks about it, and motives for what it does.

'''Ideas/Activities'''

This is not a bulleted list of everything that this character does, but instead should be treated as a few suggestions and ideas to give a clear example of what the character does. The reader should do a couple of these things with their character so that they know what the character does and how it acts towards people.

And to show you just how well if works, I'll show a roleplaying idea that doesn't use the template (96% or so of them) and then I'll show you the improved version of it that DOES use the template.

===Boxer===
*Create a male Redguard, Nord, Orc, or Khajiit with Hand to Hand, Speechcraft, Athletics, Light Armor, Block, and whatever else as major skills, choose combat as their specialty, and Strength and Endurance as preferred attributes.

*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.

When you're not in combat in the Arena, wear a pair of pants that are either your training pants, (some simple cloth pants most lower-class characters wear) or some enchanted light armor greaves with Fortify Fatigue or Hand to Hand. When in the Arena, wear the Light Raiment. As expected, box your opponents to death. You can use a Disintegrate Weapon spell to force the Arena combatants to fight you in a legitimate boxing match.

Never wear shoes. Or a shirt, most of the time. You can often wear some wristbands however. Make many Restore Fatigue potions called Energy Drink. When you are punching someone and you are running out of Fatigue, drink them.

Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.

* {{pc22}}If you have the PC version, beat up essential NPCS, knock them unconscious, rinse, repeat, then delete the bounty and hostility with the console. This also works if you have the Staff of the Everscamp, which grants you unlimited scamps to beat up. Another good training technique is at [[Oblivion:Peryite|Peryite's Shrine]] (check page to see and prevent bug) because you don't get a bounty for hitting them and they never die.

It's short, not too informative, but it looks like a fun idea. What if it was easier to read and had more info?

===Boxer===
'''Character Type'''

*Race: For a traditional boxer, the human races work best, especially Redguard and Imperial. Any race is fine though.
*Class: You'll want to specialize in combat. The essential skills for a boxer are Hand to Hand, Athletics, and Block. Anything else is up to you.
*Looks: You might want your character to look beat up, with a slightly disfigured face.

'''Equipment'''

*Clothes: A male boxer just needs pants and some good shoes. Outside matches, a boxer would wear clothes for any social class, depending on how much money the boxer has.
*Food: Any boxer should have a healthy diet consisting of plenty of meat, vegetables, and water. Water? Make a potion with a Restore Fatigue effect, and name it Water (Or buy one) and drink it regularly. You can use the Duplication Glitch for infinite water.
*Weapons/Armor: Of course, this character fights with his fists for a weapon. However, you may want to put leather gauntlets on him/her instead of proper boxing gloves. Since most of your fighting will be done in the IC Arena, you'll have to wear the Light or Heavy Raiment.
*Other: Outside of the arena, you are basically a normal citizen.

'''Backstory'''

Boxers are trained fighters who fight for entertainment across the world. They usually fight inside a square ring, and with special gloves to make sure that their hands and other body parts aren't too injured during matches. Rules in a boxing match vary from league to league, but usually, the person who has the most physical strength and fleetness of foot wins. As a boxer in Cyrodiil, you'll be in the only fight league there is. The Imperial City Arena. You have no enemies or allies that you don't make yourself, and if you become arena champion, you'll have a lot of fans. Remember, Boxers train a lot and entertain the masses!

'''Ideas/Activities'''
*Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.
*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.
*You can learn alchemy and make potions that restore your fatigue and health over time, and call them 'Energy Drinks'
*You could learn destruction and cast spells that break your opponents' weapons during fights so that the fight becomes a pure fist fight.
*Perhaps you're out to prove that you can fight with your fists as well as anybody can fight with a sword. Be creative!

Tada! This new version was rushed, because I have to go soon, but I hope you get the idea. So, who approves of this?
[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 21:33, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

:Well its a lot more informative and organized. The section is a eh...popular area and I think it should go in there. For the record, I kinda want to either clean up ''extensively'' or get rid of the section altogether but if we do this and delete some of the more ridiculous categories, it should be much better.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 18:15, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm new to this whole Wiki thing, but I particularly liked the way the Assassin character-type roleplay article was set up. It starts off by describing what the roleplay is. This is helpful, as I never know what to expect when I go to the "Lifestyles" or "Jobs" pages. Within that section, which I think may deserve its own section, it recommends items or skills would be beneficial to that type of character. After that, it has a "Possible Activities" section. This gives you broad and general tips for the role, like say if you just wanted a few ways to make it more realistic for yourself. Then, further down, it lists more specific character ideas, titled "Variations". These sections give precise details that separate that particular style from the others around it. I've had my eye on the roleplaying pages for some time and I thought that this was one of the clearest and easiest ones to read pages I've seen in a long time.

Its just a suggestion, but I think the other character-type roleplaying articles would greatly benefit from following this sort of template. As a comparison, the Ruler page has a handful of sections that are all very similar, so wouldn't it be easier to, like the Assassin page, have a "Possible Activities" section, where all the obvious actions of being a ruler could be identified? Then, if needed, further detail could be given to the specific styles of rulers. This would eliminate so many sections saying the same things repeatedly.

This is just my small contribution to cleaning up the roleplaying section. [[User:Djdontcare|Djdontcare]] 11:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
==Tribesman==

Hey I had an idea, Tribesman!!! Here is an examples:

'''Zulu'''

The Zulu are known for their courage, adaptability and proficient skill with melee weapons. Choose a human race, Redguard recommended due to skin and strength. Use a mace and fists and wear nothing (if your a female you can wear a huntsman's vest) except a very expensive amulet and rings. Use the [[Oblivion:Wabbajack|Wabbajack]] at close range, to imitate an enchanted spear infused with the spirits of fallen Zulu to give it it's magical properties. You can use a Bow and Arrow but that is optional. Live in the outside world and in the hottest climate possible. Have followers and for computer users, use commands to change the race, outfits and everything else that makes a Zulu, a Zulu. For more fun, pretend the nearest city is leading a siege against your little tribe of up to nine and ambush the soldiers posted out the city like the actual Zulu did to the British. Then once a master of Blunt, Hand to Hand and/or Marksman but Archery is not needed, siege the city and kill all guards and break into the castle (you'll have to exit the city for Anvil or Skingrad) and kill the sieging count (if you're not outside Bravil or Leyawiin (after a certain Thieves Guild Quest), you will have to knock them unconscious and if you're outside the Imperial city you'll have to K.O. the High Chancellor). Your mission complete,
go to a cave and call it a shrine. Pray to the spirits, and recieve your last quest: Join the immortal spirits by suicide, go to a section where there are enemies and get killed (undead are recommended so they can be the spirits aiding you in your quest).

Here are some other tribes:

Native Americans

Tutsi

And any other ones you can think of, feel free to edit slightly but keep the general idea there!! {{unsigned|Golden Eagle}}

==Ugh, really==
(spoilers)

Did this page really have to include "...when avenging their death. For example, use Hannibal Traven's staff and robe when confronting Mannimarco". Yes, needlessly spoil the entire mages guild questline when there are thousands of non-specific examples. Why do you put such blatant spoilers in seemingly all user friendly pages? Sorry if I seem upset. But I am, as I find this really unnacceptable. {{unsigned|24.189.164.73|July 16, 2010}}

==Fast Travel==
There, I believe is continous water between the imperial city and anvil, if you are counting the ocean, so I reccomend changing the example to something more able. {{unsigned|67.82.73.143|July 20 2010}}

: Yes, but that's hardly fast is it? You would have to go right round Elsweyr and Valenwood. This is supposed to be about imagining ''faster'' modes of travel. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

==Suggested Mod==
I have seen others use this mod and it is very realistic, if you wish, you can install the Actor's Orb, which allows you to do specific animations like being staggered, creating potions, or sleepig like a vampire. ====

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying

2010-07-23T18:03:53Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Miscellaneous */

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||February 2007 - June 2008
}}
{{TOCright}}

== Better guidelines ==

In the interest of curbing some of the ridiculous stuff that keeps getting added here faster than we can keep up with the deletions, I propose a new set of guidelines for creating roleplaying articles. (Not that anyone will pay attention to them, but at least when people complain that their articles are being removed, we can point to an established policy and say "here's why". So, my proposal would be something like this: (feel free to add to it, comment, etc.)
*All roleplaying ideas must be ''possible'' to do in the game, without mods or console. There's no point in telling people things like "Get married and have a family" when there simply isn't any way to do that in the game as it is designed. (Yes, I'm sure there are probably mods that let you do things like that, but this isn't about mods, and 3rd-party mods are not generally discussed on this site.) The vast majority of roleplaying submissions fail on this account.
*Standing around in one place isn't roleplaying. Thus, an idea like "Be a castle guard" which basically involves just standing around outside the gate for 18 hours a day and then sleeping in the guards quarters isn't really much of an idea. In order to consider it roleplaying, you must actually be ''doing'' something. If you're so bored with this game that you actually resort to such mundane, mindless tasks, it's probably time to put it away and find a new game.
*Collecting items isn't roleplaying. Filling your house with whatever random object you think you want to have a lot of for some reason just doesn't cut it.
*Mass slaughter isn't roleplaying. And it's already been discussed in various places anyhow. A roleplay article which basically amounts to "go everywhere and kill anything that moves" is just pointless.
*Roleplays must be Elder-Scrolls specific. Simply put, there are no Jedi in Tamriel. 'Nuff said.
*If your roleplaying idea basically just amounts to pretending to be your favorite Anime character, it really just doesn't belong here. Besides being impossible to do within the game (see above), if we start allowing articles like this, there's no end to the number of characters people could add. Nobody cares how much you love Pokemon and Dragonball-Z. Keep that stuff on your User page. (This doesn't just apply to Anime, of course. But that seems to be the most common source for named-character roleplays. You also shouldn't add articles suggesting that people play as Batman or the Terminator or Snake from Metal Gear, etc.)
I think if we applied these rules, and enforced them, we could weed out 90% of the horribleness on these pages. Any thoughts? Additions? Angry rants? --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 12:10, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

:Well thought out, Lurlock, these guidelines might just improve the quality of these articles. Many of your suggestions are brought up in earlier discussions, see [[#Cleaning up these articles]]. True roleplaying is perhaps at the core of the TES series, many roleplaying articles here though are a travesty to that idea. --[[User:Benould|Benould]]•[[User_Talk:Benould|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Benould|C]] 13:34, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

::An addition:
::*Ideas should be something ''fun''. Admittedly, that's hard to quantify, but the best way is to simply ask yourself when submitting an idea: "Would I actually ''do'' this?" If the answer is "no", then the odds are that nobody else would either. A roleplay that basically amounts to sitting around and doing the same tedious thing over and over again every day is not likely to be something that anyone will be interested in actually doing.
::--[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 14:52, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:::These seem like good quidelines. I'm not sure they'll help improve anything but, as you say, it will allow easier deletions when the time comes. {{unsigned|Rpeh|14 July 2008}}

While I agree we need to find a way to improve this page, I have a couple of overall problems with the specifics of these proposed guidelines.

First, these guidelines seem judgmental and at times arbitrary. Although most of the ideas on the page are not ones I'd be interested in playing, the fact is that at least one reader has thought that each idea would be interesting. Simply declaring all of those ideas invalid will make the article significantly useful for those who read the article; it will also alienate a significant number of readers. I think there are ways to limit the scope of the article that may ultimately have a similar effect, but will better incorporate the preferences of readers who use the article.

Second, these guidelines don't help in any way to define what we ''do'' want on the page. To make significant, lasting progress towards improving this article will require positive improvements to the article and its structure. We need to have examples of what should be on the page, so that other editors can build on those good examples. We need to find a way to structure the article that limits the overall scope of the article and eliminates redundancy, while also providing a better way for contributors to channel/organize ideas. One key reason why this probably hasn't happened to date is that this type of article revamp requires an experienced editor who is willing to seriously look at the article's contents and understand why readers find the article useful. I don't think that you can help to make the article better if your primary objective is just to delete as much content as possible.

Some more specific nitpicks with these guidelines:
* I don't think there's anything wrong with roleplaying that focuses on collecting items. Several previous articles were specifically related to collecting items, and several more contained elements of collecting. Many players do spend a lot of time collecting items. You can play the game while collecting -- there are even many quests that are just collection missions. I don't see why the whole concept should just be declared invalid.
* Similarly, what exactly is the rationale behind saying that mass slaughter isn't valid roleplaying? Is it a moral argument or is it based upon whether or not the articles contain ideas that readers find useful? A moral argument doesn't seem to hold much water in a game that requires you to assassinate NPCs; I think we have to allow articles on roleplaying evil characters. As for usefulness, my first impression is that several readers have found these
types of articles useful, given that the idea has been proposed several times, in various forms. I would agree that more than one such article would be redundant, but that's true for any given topic.

So, what do I propose instead? I've spent the last couple of days examining these articles pretty closely (and doing a lot of work trying to implement some of my ideas, too). The biggest problems that I see in the Roleplaying articles are:
* Redundancy, redundancy, and more redundancy. Ten articles all of which describe being an assassin in one way or another. General roleplaying ideas that are brought up more than once in the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and then repeated in dozens of subarticles (e.g., how to eat realistically, how to avoid fast travel). No crosslinks to other related roleplaying ideas.
* Poor quality introduction and guidelines on the page (now revised). The previous guidelines repeatedly asked editors to contribute any and all ideas and generally promoted the idea that the article is meant to provide a comprehensive list of roleplaying ideas, which is basically impossible.
* Low editorial standards. This problem is the one that's least likely to be improved in the near future, but I might as well still mention it. Articles and ideas are generally padded with too much emphasis or too many irrelevant details.

To tackle what I see as the real problems I have a few suggestions. Several of these I've already implemented, at least in a preliminary way, to demonstrate what I think is possible. One reason I proceeded to implement some of these ideas is that they can be done without fundamentally eliminating any information from the article and therefore should not be controversial.
* Emphasize in the character roleplaying section that the possibilities are infinite but we are trying to just provide a limited selection of good examples. We can establish some criteria that are used to limit our examples, but those criteria don't mean that other types of roleplaying are less valid.
* Add a [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#General Character Creation|General Character Creation]] section that summarizes the basic outline of dozens of roleplaying articles. This might perhaps encourage readers to follow the checklist to create their own new character (Time Lord, Sith, whatever) without creating a new article just to fill in the checklist. Furthermore, we could start to eliminate articles that consist of nothing but a list of such character creation ideas (e.g., no articles that just provide a list of name/race/skills/equipment).
* Make the individual roleplaying articles be more comprehensive, by merging any related ideas into a single article. I've done this so far for the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Roleplaying/Assassin]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Collector|Roleplaying/Collector]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist|Roleplaying/Scientist]], and [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller|Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller]] articles, in the process reducing some 30 articles into just 4. A given idea (e.g., how to live in the wilderness) should be described only once; similar ideas should be grouped together instead of repeating the same basic ideas. I think for the article to be useful, we need to end up with a list of sub-articles that is short enough to be quickly scanned and digested, so that it's obvious for readers and editors where a given idea is described.
* Aggressively eliminate redundancy. Unfortunately, this is likely to require some familiarity with what exists where. However, if we can improve the article's organization, it should become easier to identify where particular information belongs.

As for limiting type of content actually belongs on the article, I would propose:
* Any roleplaying sub-articles should be '''Elder Scrolls relevant.''' In other words, sub-articles with non-ES names should not exist.
** However, I think there is room to mention non-ES ideas within sub-articles, as specific examples of a type of roleplay. For example, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin#Ninja|Ninja]] section of the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Assassin]] article. The number of such suggestions won't be infinite, because the other criteria will effectively limit the number of relevant non-ES concepts.
* The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''
** Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist.
* The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''
** This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game.
** In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods.
* Any sub-articles have to contain '''substantial, new content.''' In other words, there has to be more than just a list of skills and equipment. There should be recommended activities that are not already covered in the general [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and are not already covered in other roleplaying sub-articles.

While this discussion is underway, I've added requests to the roleplaying article that no new sub-articles be created. I think this is a reasonable request until we've established what we want for content. Once we reach a consensus in this discussion, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Guidelines for Contributions|Guidelines for Contributions]] can be updated to provide the new criteria and allow new sub-articles to be created... as long as they meet the criteria. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 23:54, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:Nephele, I think that your proposed guidelines are a great improvement on Lurlocks set. They are very clearly defined and spelled out, and don't seem judgemental or subjective. I've also read the revamped version of the article and find it much more helpful, being much less cluttered, and generally better written overall. Kudos to you. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 00:10, 15 July 2008 (EDT)0

They are good ideas and 5 or 6 pages with these would be very good. Because i don't want to look about 40 pages to get the idea which i want...{{unsigned|78.184.150.144}}

:New Categories? I have just checked the 'Scientist' category, and the Archaeologist section has been extremely shortened. I feel this lowers the quality of the individual section. Will this happen to other characters who are categorized in this way? Also, many characters are not relevant to the categories, such as the Dark Lord.{{unsigned|89.242.210.48}}

::The four new subarticles are just the first four examples of new, more comprehensive subarticles. There clearly need to be more than just four eventually, once someone is willing to tackle all the required work to create, merge, and rewrite the subarticles. To answer your question, yes, I think that all of the roleplaying articles should be converted over to broader subarticles that combine related ideas into one place.
::Do you have any concrete complaints about the Archaelogist section of the Scientist sub-article? Yes, that one section is shorter than the standalone Archaeologist subarticle. However, in my opinion it's because the quality has increased, not decreased. It's higher quality because:
::* The information that is shared with other Scientist ideas is now listed at the top of the article, or is listed on the cross-referenced Collector article. The result is that the information is provided just once instead of being repeated over and over again; readers no longer have to wade through repeated information to dig out what's new. The number of ideas has been increased, because now related ideas that were hidden on other articles are also available to people interested in being an archaeologist.
::* The combined article makes it easier for readers interested in the general concept to browse for other, related ideas. The chances are that someone who is interested in roleplaying as an archaelogist would find some of the other ideas on the scientist and collector pages interesting. Now those other ideas are easy to find, instead of having to search through the 100+ other articles.
::* Ideas that aren't specific to being an Archaeologist have been removed. For example, "Make sure to keep a trusty weapon (enchanted or silver shortsword preferably) next to you, just in case you meet an angry skeleton or ghost!" This contributes nothing to being an archaelogist and therefore does little other than waste space.
::* Ideas that seemed to be basically pointless have been deleted. Who is seriously going to want to install a mod adding physics to paintbrushes just so you can drag the paintbrush across artifacts and pretend to dust them off? Even if you're sufficiently bored to want to try it once, it's not something you are going to want to do regularly as part of roleplaying. And it's not something that in any way contributes to how you play the game. Personally, I think winnowing out some of the more ridiculous suggestions on the article will only help the article. Readers do not want to be forced to read through dozens of uninteresting ideas -- I believe readers would rather have shorter articles that focus more specifically on information that is interesting to more than one person.
::If you feel that there are valuable ideas on the Archaeologist article that need to be moved to the new article, you are free to move the information. I'd also recommend providing some justification on the talk page, however, because making an article longer does not automatically increase its quality. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:50, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Can I suggest putting this page on hiatus (i.e. protecting it and adding a nrelevant notice at the top) until this issue is resolved? Personally i feel the roleplaying section has caused more problems than its worth and all it does is take up time that could be better spent on the actual wiki. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] [[User Talk:Volanaro|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Volanaro|C]] • [[Special:Emailuser/Volanaro|E]] 08:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Nephele's four basic guidelines seem effective. A suggestion concerning the rhetoric of the "used to play the game" guideline: Any role-playing proposal should describe, in some detail, a '''role''' and a '''style of play''' that follows from that role. A good example is the entry for "vampire hunter," for which there is a clear pattern of gameplay (such as: hunt down vampires, use fire-based attacks to kill them, then turn the vampire dust over to the Order of the Virtuous Blood for cash). Many, perhaps most, of the awful suggestions on the page consist of a role with no actual gameplay that follows from it. -- [[User:Oban|Oban]] 02:29, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:::I agree.

As Nephele has demonstrated with the four revised articles, I would like to point out that most of the ideas in each article should be in note form. I was reading the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Guerrilla Rebel|Guerrilla Rebel]] once, and I found that it was very hard to take it all in because of the 'clumps' of text. It could easily be shortened.

Also, you can include many different ideas by Categorizing them. For example: Articles like Jedi, Terminator ect. could go into a category called Movies or something.

Anything I would have said has already been said by Lurlock and Nephele. If anything, I support this idea no doubt about it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 07:16, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Pacifist ==

I'm going to be a member but I can't create pages for sometime(wiki policy) and I suggest you to create this page and name as pacifist.
Here are the ideas:

Because pacifists can't stand to see harm(human to creature, human to human etc.)(even if the one who's harmed is guilty), i thought it would be a good experience.
Be an orc or nord(for fun :D). Other races will work well (exceptions are imperials and redguards).
Create your custom class (or be an monk(replace hand to hand). Do not bear any aggresive skills.
Select sneak&security if you are the explorer type.
Speechcraft is optional, block is a must-be (To stay out of the harm's way)
Do NOT bear any aggresive spells, or do NOT carry any weapons.
Only attack if someone has mocked you when you have paying homage to your fallen comrades. Feel regret for your attack and redo the pilgrimage.
Stop any fights, or look at a different way.

Add your own ideas or so... idea just came up.

*Interesting idea.
Honestly that sounds like a decent idea... But it can easily be moved into an existing category. Or perhaps get a subarticle created. Priest/religious/whatever you know? It would be a bit of work trying to combine all the priest, monk, etc. from the list into that category, but it certainly would help in the cause.

:You could put it under [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Lifestyles|Roleplaying/Lifestyles]]. {{unsigned|60.240.157.31|11 June 2009}}

== Page Usage ==

Can i ask, how many people actually '''use''' the roleplaying pages? There are numerous articles here but do people actually read these and put the suggestions into practice in TES?--[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] 08:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to guess that only around 50% of registered editors use the ideas. I've only glanced at the pages a few times, but half of the things I couldn't even do (I'm on 360) & that was like about 4-5 months ago. (Thus the recent cleanup.) I think these pages might be used more after the new rules and guidelines.-[[User:Puddle|Puddle]] [[User Talk:Puddle|Talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Puddle|Contribs.]] 13:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

:I love these pages! I visit them one day or the other to see if something new has been added. And yes, I actually use the ideas on the pages in-game. I've some ideas by myself, but none of them are worth an entry yet. They're mostly small additions to what's on these pages already.[[Special:Contributions/87.150.188.109|87.150.188.109]] 19:12, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

== Protection? ==

After the recent spate of vandalism, I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't semi-protect this page, at least until we've finished the cleanup process. Looking back through the history, It seems like every single edit for the past couple weeks has either been vandalism, redundant additions by people who didn't read the "please don't add anything right now" notice, or reverts of the previous. Of course, if we do this, we should make sure that the cleanup happens as quickly as possible, so it doesn't need to stay protected for long, but we need some way of making people understand that this page is being redone, and a notice telling them to stop adding to it obviously isn't working - if anything there have been more edits since the notice was put up than there were before. Semi-protection would at least stop the IP editors from constantly adding redundancy and vandalism to this page until we've finished the restructuring process. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 19:16, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
'''Agree''' - I agree. No-one seems to like to read that notice, so maybe semi-protection is a good option. [[User:Daedryon|Daedryon]]•[[User_Talk:Daedryon|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Daedryon|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Daedryon|E]]• 19:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

As a user of this site, I do indeed use this, and did click the link, because I had a submission I wanted to make but wanted to read what was going on first. I would like to vouch that people are indeed doing that, and that people don't completely ignore the guidelines.

== New payment ==

I read through this page alot, and whenever I see the 'You can get paid by using the console, or through stealing'
I realize there is another way. You can duplicate items worth around 100 gold near the person who pays you, and whenever they do pay you, take one. A suggestion for such an item are soul gems. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:54, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Better guidelines followup ==
The discussion about possible guidelines has remained silent for nearly a month; has a consensus been made elsewhere? In the meantime, the articles are still there, waiting to be cleaned up, but the guidelines are still "on the drawing board". The note on the bottom of the page has been ignored or remained unseen by some; new articles are being created, which don't folow any guidelines, but are essentially just an extension of existing pages or types of roleplay. (Which is exactly what we/you are trying to prevent.)

In short: how far are we/you with those guidelines? --[[User:LordDagon|LordDagon]][[User_talk:LordDagon|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/LordDagon|C]] 11:03, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Why does this section exist in the first place? ==

:I can understand wanting to play characters to certain guidelines. I do it myself (my last character was effectively a ghost)... but most of the suggestions given here are ludicrous.
:Teleport amulet delusions, leaving money around to pretend to be paid later, annotating NPCs' words for them, getting lost in the woods and huddling under rocky overhangs to avoid the rain? Adventurers in pajamas, food poisoning, inviting Arena fans into your house, pretending to shag the maid, walking through the wilderness with a set of armour for every occasion (total weight = several hundred)? ... And I thought my brief spate of having partial Chameleon, immunity to Normal Weapons (and frost), an Invisible horse, only coming out at night and going around casting Demoralise on NPCs was crazy!
:
: Most important though... surely anyone who has the inclination to roleplay will figure out the means for themselves... right? If they don't want to use a certain game feature because it seems unrealistic, then they won't use it. The point is that roleplaying is supposed to be creative... not just following a set of someone else's guidelines and suggestions. ~ [[User:SotiCoto|SotiCoto]] 18:40, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::Personally, I agree with you, and I think this part of the site has been a thorn in my side for quite some time, but it does seem to be fairly popular, so some people must like it. I've advocated getting rid of it on several occasions, but I doubt it's going to happen, because wikis are run by the community, and a large enough portion of the community seems to want these pages to stay that it's unlikely to change any time soon. The best we can do is try and keep them under control, so that it doesn't just blow up out of proportion and bring the rest of the site down with it. We've been trying to do that by combining the subpage articles into larger, more general articles, and removing the more ridiculous ideas that either aren't technically feasable, or not likely to be appealing to any sane person. (e.g. "Be a castle guard! Stand around outside the gate for 18 hours and then go rest in the barracks!") But it's a slow process, mainly because the people who have the skills to effectively do this polishing and culling of the worst parts of this section mostly don't care enough about these pages to put in the effort. I've adopted a policy of grudging tolerance, and try to do my best to ignore what goes on here for the most part, stepping in only when there's clear need to do so. (Some of the ideas posted have been rather controversial, offensive, or - let's just say inappropriate for younger audiences. These usually get taken down pretty quickly.) If you'd like to help with this process, your assistance would be appreciated. Otherwise, I'd just say let it go and don't worry too much about it. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 23:24, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Allow me to represent the ones who enjoy this page and say there would be a firestorm if it was removed. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:46, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

I must say that I remember back the days where it was a small little section of "Things to do when you are bored", and it opened my eyes to alot of cool ways to RP in the game. I use these advice alot, they usually give me some good ideas. Im not talking about making a char thats some weirdo standing and waiting all day long.
Im talking about Roleplaying the character you have, then maybe having a RP sidejob too. Like currently im a crusader, back the days of KOTN i created the crusader part of the RP section. Its grown alot since then and I use that information too. - Fireresistance vs Flaming (elderscrolls forum)

To be honest, I think if you dont like the Roleplaying section, just dont bother with it, ignore it, UESP has the entire internet to expand, so you people that don't like it just leave it be, people such as myself find the ideas entertaining to read and perform, no offense anyone but I mean come on, its just a roleplay section for the few of us who like to really get into our characters after we've beaten the game (Complete Main Quest/Factions) X amount of times, so we like new ideas other than make a new character and do it all over again for the 5th or 6th time [[User:Zalphon|Zalphon]] 20:16, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:I have to agree with SotiCoto. I definitely see the origins of this page in what Zalphon called "Things to do when you're bored". Anyone into RP will come up with their own ideas, and many of these suggestions are more than a bit odd (I half expected to see the "shag the maid" idea in this list). The only people who actually need suggestions like this are...well, people who are bored. Here's some advice: if the game bores you so much, ''quit and play another game'', or turn off the computer or console and live your life.
:And I also have to respond to this ridiculousness about Fast Travel being unrealistic. Fast Travel is '''not''' teleportation. Time passes in-game when you Fast Travel. Don't believe me? Check the date and time in the map tab in the journal before and after Fast Travelling. It takes about an hour and fifteen minutes to Fast Travel by Chestnut horse from IC to Aleswell, and a little over an hour to FT from Aleswell to Bruma. That's approximately the same amount of in-game time it would have taken to do it yourself if you followed the main roads and did not meet any encounters. Travel is ''not'' instantaneous. The only benefit from FT is that is saves you real-world time and effort, but it has its downsides too:
:* You cannot discover POI while FT, and you will miss out on some wondrous scenery.
:* FT follows the main roads, which may or may not be the fastest and most direct route (bad when you are role-playing some sort of time constraint, and explains why it takes over four hours to FT on foot from Vilverin to the Market District in IC when you can run it in just under an hour).
:* You do not encounter anything on the road while FT, so you will miss out on xp and drops (I personally only use FT when I would follow the main road anyway and I know the area has already been cleared and has not reset).
:There are many, many things in the game that are ridiculously unrealistic (like everyone in the world telling the exact same stories word for word, and guards all over the country knowing that you committed a crime at the instant you commit it). Fast Travel is not one of them. Here endeth the rant. [[User:Phelaran|Phelaran]] 14:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

== Character roleplay idea ==

I think that a nice addition to the sperfic charcater creation section would be criminal for bandits and the like.[[User:121.218.222.125|121.218.222.125]] 02:53, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Revamp proposal discussion ==

I've posted a proposal for a revamp of the Roleplaying pages [[User talk:GuildKnight/Sandbox/1|here]]. Please chime in. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 06:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)

:If "Skooma Addict" can be a lifestyle, why can't "Drunkard" be one? The rules are similar: the objective is to get that next drink, and the playing style involves acting constantly on impulse without any long-term plan. This has been tested and the game can definitely be played this way, and the results can be hilarious and great fun. I suggest you do not delete it but incorporate it into your Lifestyle section--[[User:216.55.202.19|216.55.202.19]] 11:48, 29 January 2009 (EST)

::If you have an objection to one of the articles under deletion review, it would be appropriate to comment on the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|Deletion Review]] page linked to on the Deletion Review box at the top of that page.

== Magical Storing ==

what if you enchanted an amulet or something like "amulet of magical storage" and then you can justify carrying more than usual. like pretend like all the items are magically stored and then removed when wanted. [[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 22:01, 15 January 2009 (EST)

: Wouldn't that sort of eliminate the point? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 23:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)
not necessarily because you could be a mage and probably get away with it.[[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 09:09, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== some personal objections ==

The "cannot be used to play the game" concept of deletion doesn’t make any sense to me could someone explain it? It’s just a behavior pattern you'd have your character practice to get in to a certain role so it seems perfectly reasonable that it would be there. And "can not be done without mods" that’s what the note about mods is for! honestly i just think its ridicules. Why limit our entries to what is possible in the vanilla game? Modding is a very popular practice among players of the PC version of the game.so I don’t see what the problem is. [[User:71.87.144.230|71.87.144.230]] 07:05, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:This has been discussed before... on this page. To quote [[User:Nephele|Nephele]] in the [[#|discussion above]];
:*''"The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''"... "In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods."... "This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game."''
:*''"The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''"... "Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist."''
:My thoughts on the topics: Roleplaying articles should be restricted to roles that can be used to play the game. If playing the role means that you cannot actually play the game as it was designed, then it does not have anything to do with TES, and can likely be accomplished with any RPG. Roles described in these articles should also be possible without use of the console or mods. There's nothing wrong with a mod that enhances a role, but if the role is not possible in the vanilla game, then, once again, it's not really related to TES, and could likely be accomplished with third-party mods on most RPGs.
:There were no arguments against either of these guidelines, a consensus was reached, and the main article of this page was updated to reflect these new contribution guidelines. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 19:38, 5 February 2009 (EST)

::Obviously, some people forget that RPG stands for '''Role-Playing''' Game. The idea that these things should be possible without Mods is fine, but what about roleplaying as a Priest, a Healer, a Prisoner or other things that don't involve "doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience"? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 22:12, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:If a third-party mod or a console command is neccessary to carry off the effect described by the roleplaying article, then that statement excludes any and all players who lack either the capability or the mods being used. Any suggested roleplaying idea should, at least, have the grace of being possible to execute by any player who reads that suggestion. —[[User:Dark Spark|Dark Spark]] 22:59, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:: Debatra has a good point. These different ideas don't necessarily need to advance the character in the game. This page contained some interesting ideas, and there was no reason to delete them. However, it does need to be a character that is playable. Otherwise it truly is pointless. My only protest is that some good, playable ideas were deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

:::This page contains really interesting ideas, and I fail at seeing any problems with it. Maybe I'm just slow? Why do people keep complaning about using consoles or mods, what's the use in being "Oblivion purists" while those things could make roleplaying a whole other thing? If it was a multiplayer game, then yes, it could be quite the problem, hacking and such. But it's single-player, everyone should be free to RP in the way he/she feels like. And if you're just a console player who's feeling envious, this is not the place to waste your anger on. Thanks. {{unsigned|Newyn|6 March 2009}}

::::I think the reason Nephele put that in about about them needing to not require mods or the console to use is that ''anyone'' that wants to should be able to use these, however if you have something specific in mind ask someone like GuildKnight, or TheRealLurlock about creating a category; maybe something like: Roleplaying -> PC and then put whatever sub categories are required afterward.

== The Old RPs.. ==

May i ask why all the old Roleplays were removed?? Like Mr Nice guy - ok we could possabley change the name but they are all Roles that we can play.. With mods/Console or without they are still roleplays...

'''''Suggestions plaease''''' {{unsigned|Target|7 April 2009}}

:See the Deletion Review entry [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review#Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|here]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 22:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

::The old Roleplays that were removed were of poor quality. Half of them had less than 5 sentences of information and were pointless. As you can see the new Roleplays are of a much higher standard and give plenty of information, pictures and tips. If you can make a Roleplay that is of equal standard, we will be happy to keep it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 04:22, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Still, why remove some of them when they just needed work. {{unsigned|Target|8 April 2009}}
: They didn't just need work. They were deleted because they were beyond salvage, either because they duplicated other, better-written ideas, or because they had no hope of ever being expanded. You're lucky that the other roleplays didn't share the same fate: I think most people would prefer that they were all just deleted. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:40, 9 April 2009 (EDT)

Is not the purpose of Oblivion, and indeed, most roleplaying games to play the game how you want? If you wish to do a roleplay here is an area where you can look and gain ideas from other users. For the motto of the game is 'live another life in another world'.
–-[[User:Veltas|Veltas]]•[[User_Talk:Veltas|T]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Veltas|E]]• 23:59 10 May 2009 (EDT)

:Veltas has a point. I agree, some were stupid, but most could've been revised rather than deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 04:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

::Any that could have been revised were rewritten and/or merged with another article. The only was that were deleted were the ones that were beyond salvage. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 04:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== .hack rp's ==

-Ok, i wanted to ask if i could make a whole new thing for roleplaying? If you've ever played .hack its basically a not-online mmorpg for ps2. In it theres a lot of different classes and stuff and i wanted to make a roleplay of .hack where you pretty much pretend that the you're playing a person whos playing oblivion may sound wierd but i think it could be fun.
In the original version of The World, there were six classes.

-Blademaster(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Heavy Axeman(use only axes)
-Heavy Blade(use only two-handed blades)
-Long Arm(okay, in the world thes guys use spears, so this one would have to be staves or something.)
-Twin Blade(i really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)
-Wavemaster(spell user)

but theres also the new one with

-Adept Rogue( basically you would use multiple classes, but you can only have your final amount add up to 4 points, for example, Blade briandier costs 1 point and shadow warlock costs 3, so that would be all you could get.)
-Blade Brandier/1 point(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Macabre Dancer/3 points(these guys use fans and spells in .hack so i dont know how they could be played)
-Edge Punisher/1 point(use only two-handed blades)
-Flick Reaper/2 points(they use scythes, so i dont know how they could be played)
-Harvest Cleric/3 points(mainly use healing spells)
-Lord Partizan/2 points(they use gigantic spears and axes, so two-handed axes would be good)
-Shadow Warlock/3 points(mainly use attack spells.
-Steam Gunner/3 points(could not be played unless instead f a gun, you use a bow)
-Tribal Grappler/2 points(wear gloves and use hand to hand combat)
-Twin Blade(I really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)

It would be cool though because you'd pretend that the pc's in the game are other players of the world and you can get followers and make a party, and you could preend places are areas, and you could be a PK(player killer) or a PKK(Player killer killer) and you could pretend that the arena is lumina cloth and you need to become the Emporer of it( in dot hack that means champion)

Anyways, just a sugeestion but i think this would be really fun.
Doom Knight 22:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

:Roleplays from other games usually don't work. If you insist I'd recommend reading the guidelines for adding good roleplay sections. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Teleportation ==

I can't decide whether or not to add this to the traveling section, opinions will be appreciated. Anyway, With the frostcraig spire add on your really can teleport to the cities via the mages guilds portals. Then you can use them to get back.I already have the Battlehorn Castle DLC and im thinking about getting frostcraig spire as well. If you are in the same situation then you can use the spire to teleport to chorrol and walk to your castle. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 00:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:The specific usage of teleporting to Chorrol to get to Battlehorn Castle probably isn't appropriate, but I see nothing wrong with mentioning that roleplayers who don't like fast travel can save time by using Frostcrag Spire since there's an explanation for why teleportation is possible. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::The Battlehorn thing was more of an examlple of the idea rather then something i meant to be in the article, my bad, i should have made it clear. Anyway, ill add that to the article then, thanks for the opinion --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 03:33, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Swimming ==

Somewhere it should be mentioned that for added realism, the player should take off most or all of their clothes or armor before swimming. I'd add it myself but I'm not sure of the best place for it.--[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 05:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's already mentioned; [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Miscellaneous|Here]], it says in the third bullet point, "Bathe periodically by taking off your clothes and swimming. Wash your clothes, too, by dropping them in the water. For more realism, drop them in a sunny place and wait for them to dry; if it's cloudy, wait a bit longer." --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 17:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, my bad, must have missed that bit. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 18:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Miscellaneous ==

''Make a permanent Command Creature spell and cast it on a wolf to have a dog that follows you around.''

How do you make a permanent command creature spell? I know you can make spells at the arcane university, but how would you make a permanent one? --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 01:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::You can't, at least not that I know (I play on xbox), probably it's possible in the PC using the console or the CS. You can, however, stack effects but you will have to cast the spell continuosly.--[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] 03:03, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Ah, I see. thank you. Maybe once I get to the university (when i feel like it *is lazy*) ill see if I can make a strong spell. --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 04:16, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Good point. I don't recall how one would make a permanent spell in Oblivion. I've removed the note altogether as it's not helpful because it doesn't provide a how-to. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 12:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, providing you have it for PC, you could always make it "Command Creature for 100,000 seconds OnTouched, power spell, use once per day, cost 0 magicka" and it'd work out, granted you'de have to recast it daily.

== Edits ==

Some of my edits were removed, I checked with the guidelines and they were perfectly fine? Why'd they get removed then? ;( {{unsigned|Daedric Crayons|14 December 2009}}
:The reason your edits were changed/reverted was explained in the edit summaries. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 05:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

== Main Quest ==

If your roleplaying the main quest one thing to do is be level 25+ before starting. this might not sound like a big deal but think about it, how realistic would it be if you beet the main quest at level 4 and all you ever see in oblivion is stunted scamps. this way you will be up against the toughest draemora. not a big point but i find it importaint when playing the main quest. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 12:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8
:Although I agree, I don't think that is an element of roleplaying. This is more of a simple suggestion. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 22:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
ok. just thought i would through that out there. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 20:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8

He's got a good point though and I would suggest it being considered to be added into the main article. I mean, how can Mehrunes Dagon, the Daedric prince of destruction conquer Tamriel with an army of Scamps?

I prefer to start the main quest at level 1 and then level to the maximum after the Dagon Shrine quest as if Mehrunes Dagon was saying "Thats it, he stole my book, this is serious business, kill the moron."[[Special:Contributions/120.16.175.117|120.16.175.117]] 06:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

== Don't Delete This Page!! ==

For freaks sake people, role playing games are NEVER perfect. We're never allowed to do what we want to do. Call me a 4 yr. old, but its called pretending, and we can do it if we want! Why delete this page? If you dislike it, get off of it imo.... {{Unsigned|74.177.104.65|18 December 2009}}

:Where does it say this page is up for deletion? --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:06, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::I think there has been some talk about it, but I'm not sure. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 19:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't delete it, it's quite good and when you actually do some of it - it's fun!{{Unsigned|Daedric Crayons|18 December 2009}}
:It isn't proposed for deletion, if it were it would have the the specific tag (<nowiki>{{prod}}</nowiki>). I think that this whole concern came from [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Articles&diff=next&oldid=232215 here], and as you can see, it was a long time ago. --[[Special:Contributions/S'drassa|MC]]• [[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 22:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::Good, ive found it..useful. [[User:General Badrang|General Badrang]] 22:57, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

When I found this page I laughed at some of the suggestions. But when I play these days I have began incorporating some of the suggestions in the article into my game, such as providing more backstory to my character and giving him more emotion allowing me to intereact more with him. Due to this, I have managed to reach a higher level and do much more in game with this character (my third playthrough) and using certain aspects of this page it just makes it more fun to do. There are some suggestions that are very foolish (pretend your dying by eating a poison apple, who would keep that up throughout the game?) but personally I think they should be kept in purely because they are hilarious. ~SamGhadiali

'''PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS PAGE ISN'T PROPOSED FOR DELETION ANY MORE AND HASN'T BEEN FOR A LONG TIME!!!!!''' [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I'm thinking about redoing every specific character idea. ==

I'm thinking about giving specific character ideas a reveamp. Every idea, such as warrior, thief, samurai, cook, etc. will be given the same layout. This layout was made to be easy to read and informative, and give more information that ideas currently do. At the moment there really isn't one decided-upon way to make a new roleplying idea, so some of the new ones end up as a bulleted list, some a wall of text, and most are something in-between. This new format is neither. Instead of explaining it to you, here it is:

====Template====
'''Character Type'''

*Race: What ones are the best for the character, what ones aren't, and why.
*Class: What specializations and skills are best for roleplaying the character. A Thief doesn't need Heavy Armor. Almost 100% of the time, a custom class with up to 7 skill suggestions will be shown.
*Looks: This doesn't matter as much. This area specifies whether character might need a beard, or have to look neat, or if they'd usually have to be a male or female.

'''Equipment'''

Suggests what sort of equipment the specific character would need. Lockpicks for a Thief, staffs for a Wizard, swords for a Knight. This section may also say what equipment the character shouldn't have, and what kind of things they would take as loot or to wear.
*Clothes:
*Food:
*Weapons/Armor:
*Other:

'''Backstory'''

This area outlines why the character is what it is. This section can be very large or small, depending on how freeform the idea is. It should at least explain what the character is, allies and enemies of the character, and what it does. This section can also provide suggestions of a starting story for the character, certain quirks about it, and motives for what it does.

'''Ideas/Activities'''

This is not a bulleted list of everything that this character does, but instead should be treated as a few suggestions and ideas to give a clear example of what the character does. The reader should do a couple of these things with their character so that they know what the character does and how it acts towards people.

And to show you just how well if works, I'll show a roleplaying idea that doesn't use the template (96% or so of them) and then I'll show you the improved version of it that DOES use the template.

===Boxer===
*Create a male Redguard, Nord, Orc, or Khajiit with Hand to Hand, Speechcraft, Athletics, Light Armor, Block, and whatever else as major skills, choose combat as their specialty, and Strength and Endurance as preferred attributes.

*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.

When you're not in combat in the Arena, wear a pair of pants that are either your training pants, (some simple cloth pants most lower-class characters wear) or some enchanted light armor greaves with Fortify Fatigue or Hand to Hand. When in the Arena, wear the Light Raiment. As expected, box your opponents to death. You can use a Disintegrate Weapon spell to force the Arena combatants to fight you in a legitimate boxing match.

Never wear shoes. Or a shirt, most of the time. You can often wear some wristbands however. Make many Restore Fatigue potions called Energy Drink. When you are punching someone and you are running out of Fatigue, drink them.

Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.

* {{pc22}}If you have the PC version, beat up essential NPCS, knock them unconscious, rinse, repeat, then delete the bounty and hostility with the console. This also works if you have the Staff of the Everscamp, which grants you unlimited scamps to beat up. Another good training technique is at [[Oblivion:Peryite|Peryite's Shrine]] (check page to see and prevent bug) because you don't get a bounty for hitting them and they never die.

It's short, not too informative, but it looks like a fun idea. What if it was easier to read and had more info?

===Boxer===
'''Character Type'''

*Race: For a traditional boxer, the human races work best, especially Redguard and Imperial. Any race is fine though.
*Class: You'll want to specialize in combat. The essential skills for a boxer are Hand to Hand, Athletics, and Block. Anything else is up to you.
*Looks: You might want your character to look beat up, with a slightly disfigured face.

'''Equipment'''

*Clothes: A male boxer just needs pants and some good shoes. Outside matches, a boxer would wear clothes for any social class, depending on how much money the boxer has.
*Food: Any boxer should have a healthy diet consisting of plenty of meat, vegetables, and water. Water? Make a potion with a Restore Fatigue effect, and name it Water (Or buy one) and drink it regularly. You can use the Duplication Glitch for infinite water.
*Weapons/Armor: Of course, this character fights with his fists for a weapon. However, you may want to put leather gauntlets on him/her instead of proper boxing gloves. Since most of your fighting will be done in the IC Arena, you'll have to wear the Light or Heavy Raiment.
*Other: Outside of the arena, you are basically a normal citizen.

'''Backstory'''

Boxers are trained fighters who fight for entertainment across the world. They usually fight inside a square ring, and with special gloves to make sure that their hands and other body parts aren't too injured during matches. Rules in a boxing match vary from league to league, but usually, the person who has the most physical strength and fleetness of foot wins. As a boxer in Cyrodiil, you'll be in the only fight league there is. The Imperial City Arena. You have no enemies or allies that you don't make yourself, and if you become arena champion, you'll have a lot of fans. Remember, Boxers train a lot and entertain the masses!

'''Ideas/Activities'''
*Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.
*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.
*You can learn alchemy and make potions that restore your fatigue and health over time, and call them 'Energy Drinks'
*You could learn destruction and cast spells that break your opponents' weapons during fights so that the fight becomes a pure fist fight.
*Perhaps you're out to prove that you can fight with your fists as well as anybody can fight with a sword. Be creative!

Tada! This new version was rushed, because I have to go soon, but I hope you get the idea. So, who approves of this?
[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 21:33, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

:Well its a lot more informative and organized. The section is a eh...popular area and I think it should go in there. For the record, I kinda want to either clean up ''extensively'' or get rid of the section altogether but if we do this and delete some of the more ridiculous categories, it should be much better.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 18:15, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm new to this whole Wiki thing, but I particularly liked the way the Assassin character-type roleplay article was set up. It starts off by describing what the roleplay is. This is helpful, as I never know what to expect when I go to the "Lifestyles" or "Jobs" pages. Within that section, which I think may deserve its own section, it recommends items or skills would be beneficial to that type of character. After that, it has a "Possible Activities" section. This gives you broad and general tips for the role, like say if you just wanted a few ways to make it more realistic for yourself. Then, further down, it lists more specific character ideas, titled "Variations". These sections give precise details that separate that particular style from the others around it. I've had my eye on the roleplaying pages for some time and I thought that this was one of the clearest and easiest ones to read pages I've seen in a long time.

Its just a suggestion, but I think the other character-type roleplaying articles would greatly benefit from following this sort of template. As a comparison, the Ruler page has a handful of sections that are all very similar, so wouldn't it be easier to, like the Assassin page, have a "Possible Activities" section, where all the obvious actions of being a ruler could be identified? Then, if needed, further detail could be given to the specific styles of rulers. This would eliminate so many sections saying the same things repeatedly.

This is just my small contribution to cleaning up the roleplaying section. [[User:Djdontcare|Djdontcare]] 11:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
==Tribesman==

Hey I had an idea, Tribesman!!! Here is an examples:

'''Zulu'''

The Zulu are known for their courage, adaptability and proficient skill with melee weapons. Choose a human race, Redguard recommended due to skin and strength. Use a mace and fists and wear nothing (if your a female you can wear a huntsman's vest) except a very expensive amulet and rings. Use the [[Oblivion:Wabbajack|Wabbajack]] at close range, to imitate an enchanted spear infused with the spirits of fallen Zulu to give it it's magical properties. You can use a Bow and Arrow but that is optional. Live in the outside world and in the hottest climate possible. Have followers and for computer users, use commands to change the race, outfits and everything else that makes a Zulu, a Zulu. For more fun, pretend the nearest city is leading a siege against your little tribe of up to nine and ambush the soldiers posted out the city like the actual Zulu did to the British. Then once a master of Blunt, Hand to Hand and/or Marksman but Archery is not needed, siege the city and kill all guards and break into the castle (you'll have to exit the city for Anvil or Skingrad) and kill the sieging count (if you're not outside Bravil or Leyawiin (after a certain Thieves Guild Quest), you will have to knock them unconscious and if you're outside the Imperial city you'll have to K.O. the High Chancellor). Your mission complete,
go to a cave and call it a shrine. Pray to the spirits, and recieve your last quest: Join the immortal spirits by suicide, go to a section where there are enemies and get killed (undead are recommended so they can be the spirits aiding you in your quest).

Here are some other tribes:

Native Americans

Tutsi

And any other ones you can think of, feel free to edit slightly but keep the general idea there!! {{unsigned|Golden Eagle}}

==Ugh, really==
(spoilers)

Did this page really have to include "...when avenging their death. For example, use Hannibal Traven's staff and robe when confronting Mannimarco". Yes, needlessly spoil the entire mages guild questline when there are thousands of non-specific examples. Why do you put such blatant spoilers in seemingly all user friendly pages? Sorry if I seem upset. But I am, as I find this really unnacceptable. {{unsigned|24.189.164.73|July 16, 2010}}

==Fast Travel==
There, I believe is continous water between the imperial city and anvil, if you are counting the ocean, so I reccomend changing the example to something more able. {{unsigned|67.82.73.143|July 20 2010}}

: Yes, but that's hardly fast is it? You would have to go right round Elsweyr and Valenwood. This is supposed to be about imagining ''faster'' modes of travel. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

==Suggested Mod==
I have seen others use this mod and it is very realistic, if you wish, you can install the Actor's Orb, which allows you to do specific animations like being staggered, creating potions, or sleepig like a vampire. ====

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying

2010-07-23T17:59:00Z

Roleplayer242621:

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||February 2007 - June 2008
}}
{{TOCright}}

== Better guidelines ==

In the interest of curbing some of the ridiculous stuff that keeps getting added here faster than we can keep up with the deletions, I propose a new set of guidelines for creating roleplaying articles. (Not that anyone will pay attention to them, but at least when people complain that their articles are being removed, we can point to an established policy and say "here's why". So, my proposal would be something like this: (feel free to add to it, comment, etc.)
*All roleplaying ideas must be ''possible'' to do in the game, without mods or console. There's no point in telling people things like "Get married and have a family" when there simply isn't any way to do that in the game as it is designed. (Yes, I'm sure there are probably mods that let you do things like that, but this isn't about mods, and 3rd-party mods are not generally discussed on this site.) The vast majority of roleplaying submissions fail on this account.
*Standing around in one place isn't roleplaying. Thus, an idea like "Be a castle guard" which basically involves just standing around outside the gate for 18 hours a day and then sleeping in the guards quarters isn't really much of an idea. In order to consider it roleplaying, you must actually be ''doing'' something. If you're so bored with this game that you actually resort to such mundane, mindless tasks, it's probably time to put it away and find a new game.
*Collecting items isn't roleplaying. Filling your house with whatever random object you think you want to have a lot of for some reason just doesn't cut it.
*Mass slaughter isn't roleplaying. And it's already been discussed in various places anyhow. A roleplay article which basically amounts to "go everywhere and kill anything that moves" is just pointless.
*Roleplays must be Elder-Scrolls specific. Simply put, there are no Jedi in Tamriel. 'Nuff said.
*If your roleplaying idea basically just amounts to pretending to be your favorite Anime character, it really just doesn't belong here. Besides being impossible to do within the game (see above), if we start allowing articles like this, there's no end to the number of characters people could add. Nobody cares how much you love Pokemon and Dragonball-Z. Keep that stuff on your User page. (This doesn't just apply to Anime, of course. But that seems to be the most common source for named-character roleplays. You also shouldn't add articles suggesting that people play as Batman or the Terminator or Snake from Metal Gear, etc.)
I think if we applied these rules, and enforced them, we could weed out 90% of the horribleness on these pages. Any thoughts? Additions? Angry rants? --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 12:10, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

:Well thought out, Lurlock, these guidelines might just improve the quality of these articles. Many of your suggestions are brought up in earlier discussions, see [[#Cleaning up these articles]]. True roleplaying is perhaps at the core of the TES series, many roleplaying articles here though are a travesty to that idea. --[[User:Benould|Benould]]•[[User_Talk:Benould|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Benould|C]] 13:34, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

::An addition:
::*Ideas should be something ''fun''. Admittedly, that's hard to quantify, but the best way is to simply ask yourself when submitting an idea: "Would I actually ''do'' this?" If the answer is "no", then the odds are that nobody else would either. A roleplay that basically amounts to sitting around and doing the same tedious thing over and over again every day is not likely to be something that anyone will be interested in actually doing.
::--[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 14:52, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:::These seem like good quidelines. I'm not sure they'll help improve anything but, as you say, it will allow easier deletions when the time comes. {{unsigned|Rpeh|14 July 2008}}

While I agree we need to find a way to improve this page, I have a couple of overall problems with the specifics of these proposed guidelines.

First, these guidelines seem judgmental and at times arbitrary. Although most of the ideas on the page are not ones I'd be interested in playing, the fact is that at least one reader has thought that each idea would be interesting. Simply declaring all of those ideas invalid will make the article significantly useful for those who read the article; it will also alienate a significant number of readers. I think there are ways to limit the scope of the article that may ultimately have a similar effect, but will better incorporate the preferences of readers who use the article.

Second, these guidelines don't help in any way to define what we ''do'' want on the page. To make significant, lasting progress towards improving this article will require positive improvements to the article and its structure. We need to have examples of what should be on the page, so that other editors can build on those good examples. We need to find a way to structure the article that limits the overall scope of the article and eliminates redundancy, while also providing a better way for contributors to channel/organize ideas. One key reason why this probably hasn't happened to date is that this type of article revamp requires an experienced editor who is willing to seriously look at the article's contents and understand why readers find the article useful. I don't think that you can help to make the article better if your primary objective is just to delete as much content as possible.

Some more specific nitpicks with these guidelines:
* I don't think there's anything wrong with roleplaying that focuses on collecting items. Several previous articles were specifically related to collecting items, and several more contained elements of collecting. Many players do spend a lot of time collecting items. You can play the game while collecting -- there are even many quests that are just collection missions. I don't see why the whole concept should just be declared invalid.
* Similarly, what exactly is the rationale behind saying that mass slaughter isn't valid roleplaying? Is it a moral argument or is it based upon whether or not the articles contain ideas that readers find useful? A moral argument doesn't seem to hold much water in a game that requires you to assassinate NPCs; I think we have to allow articles on roleplaying evil characters. As for usefulness, my first impression is that several readers have found these
types of articles useful, given that the idea has been proposed several times, in various forms. I would agree that more than one such article would be redundant, but that's true for any given topic.

So, what do I propose instead? I've spent the last couple of days examining these articles pretty closely (and doing a lot of work trying to implement some of my ideas, too). The biggest problems that I see in the Roleplaying articles are:
* Redundancy, redundancy, and more redundancy. Ten articles all of which describe being an assassin in one way or another. General roleplaying ideas that are brought up more than once in the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and then repeated in dozens of subarticles (e.g., how to eat realistically, how to avoid fast travel). No crosslinks to other related roleplaying ideas.
* Poor quality introduction and guidelines on the page (now revised). The previous guidelines repeatedly asked editors to contribute any and all ideas and generally promoted the idea that the article is meant to provide a comprehensive list of roleplaying ideas, which is basically impossible.
* Low editorial standards. This problem is the one that's least likely to be improved in the near future, but I might as well still mention it. Articles and ideas are generally padded with too much emphasis or too many irrelevant details.

To tackle what I see as the real problems I have a few suggestions. Several of these I've already implemented, at least in a preliminary way, to demonstrate what I think is possible. One reason I proceeded to implement some of these ideas is that they can be done without fundamentally eliminating any information from the article and therefore should not be controversial.
* Emphasize in the character roleplaying section that the possibilities are infinite but we are trying to just provide a limited selection of good examples. We can establish some criteria that are used to limit our examples, but those criteria don't mean that other types of roleplaying are less valid.
* Add a [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#General Character Creation|General Character Creation]] section that summarizes the basic outline of dozens of roleplaying articles. This might perhaps encourage readers to follow the checklist to create their own new character (Time Lord, Sith, whatever) without creating a new article just to fill in the checklist. Furthermore, we could start to eliminate articles that consist of nothing but a list of such character creation ideas (e.g., no articles that just provide a list of name/race/skills/equipment).
* Make the individual roleplaying articles be more comprehensive, by merging any related ideas into a single article. I've done this so far for the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Roleplaying/Assassin]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Collector|Roleplaying/Collector]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist|Roleplaying/Scientist]], and [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller|Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller]] articles, in the process reducing some 30 articles into just 4. A given idea (e.g., how to live in the wilderness) should be described only once; similar ideas should be grouped together instead of repeating the same basic ideas. I think for the article to be useful, we need to end up with a list of sub-articles that is short enough to be quickly scanned and digested, so that it's obvious for readers and editors where a given idea is described.
* Aggressively eliminate redundancy. Unfortunately, this is likely to require some familiarity with what exists where. However, if we can improve the article's organization, it should become easier to identify where particular information belongs.

As for limiting type of content actually belongs on the article, I would propose:
* Any roleplaying sub-articles should be '''Elder Scrolls relevant.''' In other words, sub-articles with non-ES names should not exist.
** However, I think there is room to mention non-ES ideas within sub-articles, as specific examples of a type of roleplay. For example, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin#Ninja|Ninja]] section of the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Assassin]] article. The number of such suggestions won't be infinite, because the other criteria will effectively limit the number of relevant non-ES concepts.
* The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''
** Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist.
* The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''
** This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game.
** In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods.
* Any sub-articles have to contain '''substantial, new content.''' In other words, there has to be more than just a list of skills and equipment. There should be recommended activities that are not already covered in the general [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and are not already covered in other roleplaying sub-articles.

While this discussion is underway, I've added requests to the roleplaying article that no new sub-articles be created. I think this is a reasonable request until we've established what we want for content. Once we reach a consensus in this discussion, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Guidelines for Contributions|Guidelines for Contributions]] can be updated to provide the new criteria and allow new sub-articles to be created... as long as they meet the criteria. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 23:54, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:Nephele, I think that your proposed guidelines are a great improvement on Lurlocks set. They are very clearly defined and spelled out, and don't seem judgemental or subjective. I've also read the revamped version of the article and find it much more helpful, being much less cluttered, and generally better written overall. Kudos to you. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 00:10, 15 July 2008 (EDT)0

They are good ideas and 5 or 6 pages with these would be very good. Because i don't want to look about 40 pages to get the idea which i want...{{unsigned|78.184.150.144}}

:New Categories? I have just checked the 'Scientist' category, and the Archaeologist section has been extremely shortened. I feel this lowers the quality of the individual section. Will this happen to other characters who are categorized in this way? Also, many characters are not relevant to the categories, such as the Dark Lord.{{unsigned|89.242.210.48}}

::The four new subarticles are just the first four examples of new, more comprehensive subarticles. There clearly need to be more than just four eventually, once someone is willing to tackle all the required work to create, merge, and rewrite the subarticles. To answer your question, yes, I think that all of the roleplaying articles should be converted over to broader subarticles that combine related ideas into one place.
::Do you have any concrete complaints about the Archaelogist section of the Scientist sub-article? Yes, that one section is shorter than the standalone Archaeologist subarticle. However, in my opinion it's because the quality has increased, not decreased. It's higher quality because:
::* The information that is shared with other Scientist ideas is now listed at the top of the article, or is listed on the cross-referenced Collector article. The result is that the information is provided just once instead of being repeated over and over again; readers no longer have to wade through repeated information to dig out what's new. The number of ideas has been increased, because now related ideas that were hidden on other articles are also available to people interested in being an archaeologist.
::* The combined article makes it easier for readers interested in the general concept to browse for other, related ideas. The chances are that someone who is interested in roleplaying as an archaelogist would find some of the other ideas on the scientist and collector pages interesting. Now those other ideas are easy to find, instead of having to search through the 100+ other articles.
::* Ideas that aren't specific to being an Archaeologist have been removed. For example, "Make sure to keep a trusty weapon (enchanted or silver shortsword preferably) next to you, just in case you meet an angry skeleton or ghost!" This contributes nothing to being an archaelogist and therefore does little other than waste space.
::* Ideas that seemed to be basically pointless have been deleted. Who is seriously going to want to install a mod adding physics to paintbrushes just so you can drag the paintbrush across artifacts and pretend to dust them off? Even if you're sufficiently bored to want to try it once, it's not something you are going to want to do regularly as part of roleplaying. And it's not something that in any way contributes to how you play the game. Personally, I think winnowing out some of the more ridiculous suggestions on the article will only help the article. Readers do not want to be forced to read through dozens of uninteresting ideas -- I believe readers would rather have shorter articles that focus more specifically on information that is interesting to more than one person.
::If you feel that there are valuable ideas on the Archaeologist article that need to be moved to the new article, you are free to move the information. I'd also recommend providing some justification on the talk page, however, because making an article longer does not automatically increase its quality. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:50, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Can I suggest putting this page on hiatus (i.e. protecting it and adding a nrelevant notice at the top) until this issue is resolved? Personally i feel the roleplaying section has caused more problems than its worth and all it does is take up time that could be better spent on the actual wiki. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] [[User Talk:Volanaro|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Volanaro|C]] • [[Special:Emailuser/Volanaro|E]] 08:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Nephele's four basic guidelines seem effective. A suggestion concerning the rhetoric of the "used to play the game" guideline: Any role-playing proposal should describe, in some detail, a '''role''' and a '''style of play''' that follows from that role. A good example is the entry for "vampire hunter," for which there is a clear pattern of gameplay (such as: hunt down vampires, use fire-based attacks to kill them, then turn the vampire dust over to the Order of the Virtuous Blood for cash). Many, perhaps most, of the awful suggestions on the page consist of a role with no actual gameplay that follows from it. -- [[User:Oban|Oban]] 02:29, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:::I agree.

As Nephele has demonstrated with the four revised articles, I would like to point out that most of the ideas in each article should be in note form. I was reading the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Guerrilla Rebel|Guerrilla Rebel]] once, and I found that it was very hard to take it all in because of the 'clumps' of text. It could easily be shortened.

Also, you can include many different ideas by Categorizing them. For example: Articles like Jedi, Terminator ect. could go into a category called Movies or something.

Anything I would have said has already been said by Lurlock and Nephele. If anything, I support this idea no doubt about it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 07:16, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Pacifist ==

I'm going to be a member but I can't create pages for sometime(wiki policy) and I suggest you to create this page and name as pacifist.
Here are the ideas:

Because pacifists can't stand to see harm(human to creature, human to human etc.)(even if the one who's harmed is guilty), i thought it would be a good experience.
Be an orc or nord(for fun :D). Other races will work well (exceptions are imperials and redguards).
Create your custom class (or be an monk(replace hand to hand). Do not bear any aggresive skills.
Select sneak&security if you are the explorer type.
Speechcraft is optional, block is a must-be (To stay out of the harm's way)
Do NOT bear any aggresive spells, or do NOT carry any weapons.
Only attack if someone has mocked you when you have paying homage to your fallen comrades. Feel regret for your attack and redo the pilgrimage.
Stop any fights, or look at a different way.

Add your own ideas or so... idea just came up.

*Interesting idea.
Honestly that sounds like a decent idea... But it can easily be moved into an existing category. Or perhaps get a subarticle created. Priest/religious/whatever you know? It would be a bit of work trying to combine all the priest, monk, etc. from the list into that category, but it certainly would help in the cause.

:You could put it under [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Lifestyles|Roleplaying/Lifestyles]]. {{unsigned|60.240.157.31|11 June 2009}}

== Page Usage ==

Can i ask, how many people actually '''use''' the roleplaying pages? There are numerous articles here but do people actually read these and put the suggestions into practice in TES?--[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] 08:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to guess that only around 50% of registered editors use the ideas. I've only glanced at the pages a few times, but half of the things I couldn't even do (I'm on 360) & that was like about 4-5 months ago. (Thus the recent cleanup.) I think these pages might be used more after the new rules and guidelines.-[[User:Puddle|Puddle]] [[User Talk:Puddle|Talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Puddle|Contribs.]] 13:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

:I love these pages! I visit them one day or the other to see if something new has been added. And yes, I actually use the ideas on the pages in-game. I've some ideas by myself, but none of them are worth an entry yet. They're mostly small additions to what's on these pages already.[[Special:Contributions/87.150.188.109|87.150.188.109]] 19:12, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

== Protection? ==

After the recent spate of vandalism, I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't semi-protect this page, at least until we've finished the cleanup process. Looking back through the history, It seems like every single edit for the past couple weeks has either been vandalism, redundant additions by people who didn't read the "please don't add anything right now" notice, or reverts of the previous. Of course, if we do this, we should make sure that the cleanup happens as quickly as possible, so it doesn't need to stay protected for long, but we need some way of making people understand that this page is being redone, and a notice telling them to stop adding to it obviously isn't working - if anything there have been more edits since the notice was put up than there were before. Semi-protection would at least stop the IP editors from constantly adding redundancy and vandalism to this page until we've finished the restructuring process. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 19:16, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
'''Agree''' - I agree. No-one seems to like to read that notice, so maybe semi-protection is a good option. [[User:Daedryon|Daedryon]]•[[User_Talk:Daedryon|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Daedryon|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Daedryon|E]]• 19:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

As a user of this site, I do indeed use this, and did click the link, because I had a submission I wanted to make but wanted to read what was going on first. I would like to vouch that people are indeed doing that, and that people don't completely ignore the guidelines.

== New payment ==

I read through this page alot, and whenever I see the 'You can get paid by using the console, or through stealing'
I realize there is another way. You can duplicate items worth around 100 gold near the person who pays you, and whenever they do pay you, take one. A suggestion for such an item are soul gems. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:54, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Better guidelines followup ==
The discussion about possible guidelines has remained silent for nearly a month; has a consensus been made elsewhere? In the meantime, the articles are still there, waiting to be cleaned up, but the guidelines are still "on the drawing board". The note on the bottom of the page has been ignored or remained unseen by some; new articles are being created, which don't folow any guidelines, but are essentially just an extension of existing pages or types of roleplay. (Which is exactly what we/you are trying to prevent.)

In short: how far are we/you with those guidelines? --[[User:LordDagon|LordDagon]][[User_talk:LordDagon|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/LordDagon|C]] 11:03, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Why does this section exist in the first place? ==

:I can understand wanting to play characters to certain guidelines. I do it myself (my last character was effectively a ghost)... but most of the suggestions given here are ludicrous.
:Teleport amulet delusions, leaving money around to pretend to be paid later, annotating NPCs' words for them, getting lost in the woods and huddling under rocky overhangs to avoid the rain? Adventurers in pajamas, food poisoning, inviting Arena fans into your house, pretending to shag the maid, walking through the wilderness with a set of armour for every occasion (total weight = several hundred)? ... And I thought my brief spate of having partial Chameleon, immunity to Normal Weapons (and frost), an Invisible horse, only coming out at night and going around casting Demoralise on NPCs was crazy!
:
: Most important though... surely anyone who has the inclination to roleplay will figure out the means for themselves... right? If they don't want to use a certain game feature because it seems unrealistic, then they won't use it. The point is that roleplaying is supposed to be creative... not just following a set of someone else's guidelines and suggestions. ~ [[User:SotiCoto|SotiCoto]] 18:40, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::Personally, I agree with you, and I think this part of the site has been a thorn in my side for quite some time, but it does seem to be fairly popular, so some people must like it. I've advocated getting rid of it on several occasions, but I doubt it's going to happen, because wikis are run by the community, and a large enough portion of the community seems to want these pages to stay that it's unlikely to change any time soon. The best we can do is try and keep them under control, so that it doesn't just blow up out of proportion and bring the rest of the site down with it. We've been trying to do that by combining the subpage articles into larger, more general articles, and removing the more ridiculous ideas that either aren't technically feasable, or not likely to be appealing to any sane person. (e.g. "Be a castle guard! Stand around outside the gate for 18 hours and then go rest in the barracks!") But it's a slow process, mainly because the people who have the skills to effectively do this polishing and culling of the worst parts of this section mostly don't care enough about these pages to put in the effort. I've adopted a policy of grudging tolerance, and try to do my best to ignore what goes on here for the most part, stepping in only when there's clear need to do so. (Some of the ideas posted have been rather controversial, offensive, or - let's just say inappropriate for younger audiences. These usually get taken down pretty quickly.) If you'd like to help with this process, your assistance would be appreciated. Otherwise, I'd just say let it go and don't worry too much about it. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 23:24, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Allow me to represent the ones who enjoy this page and say there would be a firestorm if it was removed. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:46, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

I must say that I remember back the days where it was a small little section of "Things to do when you are bored", and it opened my eyes to alot of cool ways to RP in the game. I use these advice alot, they usually give me some good ideas. Im not talking about making a char thats some weirdo standing and waiting all day long.
Im talking about Roleplaying the character you have, then maybe having a RP sidejob too. Like currently im a crusader, back the days of KOTN i created the crusader part of the RP section. Its grown alot since then and I use that information too. - Fireresistance vs Flaming (elderscrolls forum)

To be honest, I think if you dont like the Roleplaying section, just dont bother with it, ignore it, UESP has the entire internet to expand, so you people that don't like it just leave it be, people such as myself find the ideas entertaining to read and perform, no offense anyone but I mean come on, its just a roleplay section for the few of us who like to really get into our characters after we've beaten the game (Complete Main Quest/Factions) X amount of times, so we like new ideas other than make a new character and do it all over again for the 5th or 6th time [[User:Zalphon|Zalphon]] 20:16, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:I have to agree with SotiCoto. I definitely see the origins of this page in what Zalphon called "Things to do when you're bored". Anyone into RP will come up with their own ideas, and many of these suggestions are more than a bit odd (I half expected to see the "shag the maid" idea in this list). The only people who actually need suggestions like this are...well, people who are bored. Here's some advice: if the game bores you so much, ''quit and play another game'', or turn off the computer or console and live your life.
:And I also have to respond to this ridiculousness about Fast Travel being unrealistic. Fast Travel is '''not''' teleportation. Time passes in-game when you Fast Travel. Don't believe me? Check the date and time in the map tab in the journal before and after Fast Travelling. It takes about an hour and fifteen minutes to Fast Travel by Chestnut horse from IC to Aleswell, and a little over an hour to FT from Aleswell to Bruma. That's approximately the same amount of in-game time it would have taken to do it yourself if you followed the main roads and did not meet any encounters. Travel is ''not'' instantaneous. The only benefit from FT is that is saves you real-world time and effort, but it has its downsides too:
:* You cannot discover POI while FT, and you will miss out on some wondrous scenery.
:* FT follows the main roads, which may or may not be the fastest and most direct route (bad when you are role-playing some sort of time constraint, and explains why it takes over four hours to FT on foot from Vilverin to the Market District in IC when you can run it in just under an hour).
:* You do not encounter anything on the road while FT, so you will miss out on xp and drops (I personally only use FT when I would follow the main road anyway and I know the area has already been cleared and has not reset).
:There are many, many things in the game that are ridiculously unrealistic (like everyone in the world telling the exact same stories word for word, and guards all over the country knowing that you committed a crime at the instant you commit it). Fast Travel is not one of them. Here endeth the rant. [[User:Phelaran|Phelaran]] 14:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

== Character roleplay idea ==

I think that a nice addition to the sperfic charcater creation section would be criminal for bandits and the like.[[User:121.218.222.125|121.218.222.125]] 02:53, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Revamp proposal discussion ==

I've posted a proposal for a revamp of the Roleplaying pages [[User talk:GuildKnight/Sandbox/1|here]]. Please chime in. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 06:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)

:If "Skooma Addict" can be a lifestyle, why can't "Drunkard" be one? The rules are similar: the objective is to get that next drink, and the playing style involves acting constantly on impulse without any long-term plan. This has been tested and the game can definitely be played this way, and the results can be hilarious and great fun. I suggest you do not delete it but incorporate it into your Lifestyle section--[[User:216.55.202.19|216.55.202.19]] 11:48, 29 January 2009 (EST)

::If you have an objection to one of the articles under deletion review, it would be appropriate to comment on the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|Deletion Review]] page linked to on the Deletion Review box at the top of that page.

== Magical Storing ==

what if you enchanted an amulet or something like "amulet of magical storage" and then you can justify carrying more than usual. like pretend like all the items are magically stored and then removed when wanted. [[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 22:01, 15 January 2009 (EST)

: Wouldn't that sort of eliminate the point? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 23:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)
not necessarily because you could be a mage and probably get away with it.[[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 09:09, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== some personal objections ==

The "cannot be used to play the game" concept of deletion doesn’t make any sense to me could someone explain it? It’s just a behavior pattern you'd have your character practice to get in to a certain role so it seems perfectly reasonable that it would be there. And "can not be done without mods" that’s what the note about mods is for! honestly i just think its ridicules. Why limit our entries to what is possible in the vanilla game? Modding is a very popular practice among players of the PC version of the game.so I don’t see what the problem is. [[User:71.87.144.230|71.87.144.230]] 07:05, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:This has been discussed before... on this page. To quote [[User:Nephele|Nephele]] in the [[#|discussion above]];
:*''"The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''"... "In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods."... "This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game."''
:*''"The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''"... "Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist."''
:My thoughts on the topics: Roleplaying articles should be restricted to roles that can be used to play the game. If playing the role means that you cannot actually play the game as it was designed, then it does not have anything to do with TES, and can likely be accomplished with any RPG. Roles described in these articles should also be possible without use of the console or mods. There's nothing wrong with a mod that enhances a role, but if the role is not possible in the vanilla game, then, once again, it's not really related to TES, and could likely be accomplished with third-party mods on most RPGs.
:There were no arguments against either of these guidelines, a consensus was reached, and the main article of this page was updated to reflect these new contribution guidelines. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 19:38, 5 February 2009 (EST)

::Obviously, some people forget that RPG stands for '''Role-Playing''' Game. The idea that these things should be possible without Mods is fine, but what about roleplaying as a Priest, a Healer, a Prisoner or other things that don't involve "doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience"? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 22:12, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:If a third-party mod or a console command is neccessary to carry off the effect described by the roleplaying article, then that statement excludes any and all players who lack either the capability or the mods being used. Any suggested roleplaying idea should, at least, have the grace of being possible to execute by any player who reads that suggestion. —[[User:Dark Spark|Dark Spark]] 22:59, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:: Debatra has a good point. These different ideas don't necessarily need to advance the character in the game. This page contained some interesting ideas, and there was no reason to delete them. However, it does need to be a character that is playable. Otherwise it truly is pointless. My only protest is that some good, playable ideas were deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

:::This page contains really interesting ideas, and I fail at seeing any problems with it. Maybe I'm just slow? Why do people keep complaning about using consoles or mods, what's the use in being "Oblivion purists" while those things could make roleplaying a whole other thing? If it was a multiplayer game, then yes, it could be quite the problem, hacking and such. But it's single-player, everyone should be free to RP in the way he/she feels like. And if you're just a console player who's feeling envious, this is not the place to waste your anger on. Thanks. {{unsigned|Newyn|6 March 2009}}

::::I think the reason Nephele put that in about about them needing to not require mods or the console to use is that ''anyone'' that wants to should be able to use these, however if you have something specific in mind ask someone like GuildKnight, or TheRealLurlock about creating a category; maybe something like: Roleplaying -> PC and then put whatever sub categories are required afterward.

== The Old RPs.. ==

May i ask why all the old Roleplays were removed?? Like Mr Nice guy - ok we could possabley change the name but they are all Roles that we can play.. With mods/Console or without they are still roleplays...

'''''Suggestions plaease''''' {{unsigned|Target|7 April 2009}}

:See the Deletion Review entry [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review#Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|here]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 22:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

::The old Roleplays that were removed were of poor quality. Half of them had less than 5 sentences of information and were pointless. As you can see the new Roleplays are of a much higher standard and give plenty of information, pictures and tips. If you can make a Roleplay that is of equal standard, we will be happy to keep it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 04:22, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Still, why remove some of them when they just needed work. {{unsigned|Target|8 April 2009}}
: They didn't just need work. They were deleted because they were beyond salvage, either because they duplicated other, better-written ideas, or because they had no hope of ever being expanded. You're lucky that the other roleplays didn't share the same fate: I think most people would prefer that they were all just deleted. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:40, 9 April 2009 (EDT)

Is not the purpose of Oblivion, and indeed, most roleplaying games to play the game how you want? If you wish to do a roleplay here is an area where you can look and gain ideas from other users. For the motto of the game is 'live another life in another world'.
–-[[User:Veltas|Veltas]]•[[User_Talk:Veltas|T]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Veltas|E]]• 23:59 10 May 2009 (EDT)

:Veltas has a point. I agree, some were stupid, but most could've been revised rather than deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 04:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

::Any that could have been revised were rewritten and/or merged with another article. The only was that were deleted were the ones that were beyond salvage. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 04:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== .hack rp's ==

-Ok, i wanted to ask if i could make a whole new thing for roleplaying? If you've ever played .hack its basically a not-online mmorpg for ps2. In it theres a lot of different classes and stuff and i wanted to make a roleplay of .hack where you pretty much pretend that the you're playing a person whos playing oblivion may sound wierd but i think it could be fun.
In the original version of The World, there were six classes.

-Blademaster(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Heavy Axeman(use only axes)
-Heavy Blade(use only two-handed blades)
-Long Arm(okay, in the world thes guys use spears, so this one would have to be staves or something.)
-Twin Blade(i really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)
-Wavemaster(spell user)

but theres also the new one with

-Adept Rogue( basically you would use multiple classes, but you can only have your final amount add up to 4 points, for example, Blade briandier costs 1 point and shadow warlock costs 3, so that would be all you could get.)
-Blade Brandier/1 point(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Macabre Dancer/3 points(these guys use fans and spells in .hack so i dont know how they could be played)
-Edge Punisher/1 point(use only two-handed blades)
-Flick Reaper/2 points(they use scythes, so i dont know how they could be played)
-Harvest Cleric/3 points(mainly use healing spells)
-Lord Partizan/2 points(they use gigantic spears and axes, so two-handed axes would be good)
-Shadow Warlock/3 points(mainly use attack spells.
-Steam Gunner/3 points(could not be played unless instead f a gun, you use a bow)
-Tribal Grappler/2 points(wear gloves and use hand to hand combat)
-Twin Blade(I really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)

It would be cool though because you'd pretend that the pc's in the game are other players of the world and you can get followers and make a party, and you could preend places are areas, and you could be a PK(player killer) or a PKK(Player killer killer) and you could pretend that the arena is lumina cloth and you need to become the Emporer of it( in dot hack that means champion)

Anyways, just a sugeestion but i think this would be really fun.
Doom Knight 22:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

:Roleplays from other games usually don't work. If you insist I'd recommend reading the guidelines for adding good roleplay sections. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Teleportation ==

I can't decide whether or not to add this to the traveling section, opinions will be appreciated. Anyway, With the frostcraig spire add on your really can teleport to the cities via the mages guilds portals. Then you can use them to get back.I already have the Battlehorn Castle DLC and im thinking about getting frostcraig spire as well. If you are in the same situation then you can use the spire to teleport to chorrol and walk to your castle. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 00:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:The specific usage of teleporting to Chorrol to get to Battlehorn Castle probably isn't appropriate, but I see nothing wrong with mentioning that roleplayers who don't like fast travel can save time by using Frostcrag Spire since there's an explanation for why teleportation is possible. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::The Battlehorn thing was more of an examlple of the idea rather then something i meant to be in the article, my bad, i should have made it clear. Anyway, ill add that to the article then, thanks for the opinion --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 03:33, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Swimming ==

Somewhere it should be mentioned that for added realism, the player should take off most or all of their clothes or armor before swimming. I'd add it myself but I'm not sure of the best place for it.--[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 05:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's already mentioned; [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Miscellaneous|Here]], it says in the third bullet point, "Bathe periodically by taking off your clothes and swimming. Wash your clothes, too, by dropping them in the water. For more realism, drop them in a sunny place and wait for them to dry; if it's cloudy, wait a bit longer." --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 17:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, my bad, must have missed that bit. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 18:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Miscellaneous ==

''Make a permanent Command Creature spell and cast it on a wolf to have a dog that follows you around.''

How do you make a permanent command creature spell? I know you can make spells at the arcane university, but how would you make a permanent one? --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 01:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::You can't, at least not that I know (I play on xbox), probably it's possible in the PC using the console or the CS. You can, however, stack effects but you will have to cast the spell continuosly.--[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] 03:03, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Ah, I see. thank you. Maybe once I get to the university (when i feel like it *is lazy*) ill see if I can make a strong spell. --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 04:16, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Good point. I don't recall how one would make a permanent spell in Oblivion. I've removed the note altogether as it's not helpful because it doesn't provide a how-to. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 12:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Some of my edits were removed, I checked with the guidelines and they were perfectly fine? Why'd they get removed then? ;( {{unsigned|Daedric Crayons|14 December 2009}}
:The reason your edits were changed/reverted was explained in the edit summaries. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 05:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

== Main Quest ==

If your roleplaying the main quest one thing to do is be level 25+ before starting. this might not sound like a big deal but think about it, how realistic would it be if you beet the main quest at level 4 and all you ever see in oblivion is stunted scamps. this way you will be up against the toughest draemora. not a big point but i find it importaint when playing the main quest. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 12:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8
:Although I agree, I don't think that is an element of roleplaying. This is more of a simple suggestion. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 22:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
ok. just thought i would through that out there. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 20:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8

He's got a good point though and I would suggest it being considered to be added into the main article. I mean, how can Mehrunes Dagon, the Daedric prince of destruction conquer Tamriel with an army of Scamps?

I prefer to start the main quest at level 1 and then level to the maximum after the Dagon Shrine quest as if Mehrunes Dagon was saying "Thats it, he stole my book, this is serious business, kill the moron."[[Special:Contributions/120.16.175.117|120.16.175.117]] 06:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

== Don't Delete This Page!! ==

For freaks sake people, role playing games are NEVER perfect. We're never allowed to do what we want to do. Call me a 4 yr. old, but its called pretending, and we can do it if we want! Why delete this page? If you dislike it, get off of it imo.... {{Unsigned|74.177.104.65|18 December 2009}}

:Where does it say this page is up for deletion? --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:06, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::I think there has been some talk about it, but I'm not sure. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 19:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't delete it, it's quite good and when you actually do some of it - it's fun!{{Unsigned|Daedric Crayons|18 December 2009}}
:It isn't proposed for deletion, if it were it would have the the specific tag (<nowiki>{{prod}}</nowiki>). I think that this whole concern came from [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Articles&diff=next&oldid=232215 here], and as you can see, it was a long time ago. --[[Special:Contributions/S'drassa|MC]]• [[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 22:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::Good, ive found it..useful. [[User:General Badrang|General Badrang]] 22:57, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

When I found this page I laughed at some of the suggestions. But when I play these days I have began incorporating some of the suggestions in the article into my game, such as providing more backstory to my character and giving him more emotion allowing me to intereact more with him. Due to this, I have managed to reach a higher level and do much more in game with this character (my third playthrough) and using certain aspects of this page it just makes it more fun to do. There are some suggestions that are very foolish (pretend your dying by eating a poison apple, who would keep that up throughout the game?) but personally I think they should be kept in purely because they are hilarious. ~SamGhadiali

'''PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS PAGE ISN'T PROPOSED FOR DELETION ANY MORE AND HASN'T BEEN FOR A LONG TIME!!!!!''' [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I'm thinking about redoing every specific character idea. ==

I'm thinking about giving specific character ideas a reveamp. Every idea, such as warrior, thief, samurai, cook, etc. will be given the same layout. This layout was made to be easy to read and informative, and give more information that ideas currently do. At the moment there really isn't one decided-upon way to make a new roleplying idea, so some of the new ones end up as a bulleted list, some a wall of text, and most are something in-between. This new format is neither. Instead of explaining it to you, here it is:

====Template====
'''Character Type'''

*Race: What ones are the best for the character, what ones aren't, and why.
*Class: What specializations and skills are best for roleplaying the character. A Thief doesn't need Heavy Armor. Almost 100% of the time, a custom class with up to 7 skill suggestions will be shown.
*Looks: This doesn't matter as much. This area specifies whether character might need a beard, or have to look neat, or if they'd usually have to be a male or female.

'''Equipment'''

Suggests what sort of equipment the specific character would need. Lockpicks for a Thief, staffs for a Wizard, swords for a Knight. This section may also say what equipment the character shouldn't have, and what kind of things they would take as loot or to wear.
*Clothes:
*Food:
*Weapons/Armor:
*Other:

'''Backstory'''

This area outlines why the character is what it is. This section can be very large or small, depending on how freeform the idea is. It should at least explain what the character is, allies and enemies of the character, and what it does. This section can also provide suggestions of a starting story for the character, certain quirks about it, and motives for what it does.

'''Ideas/Activities'''

This is not a bulleted list of everything that this character does, but instead should be treated as a few suggestions and ideas to give a clear example of what the character does. The reader should do a couple of these things with their character so that they know what the character does and how it acts towards people.

And to show you just how well if works, I'll show a roleplaying idea that doesn't use the template (96% or so of them) and then I'll show you the improved version of it that DOES use the template.

===Boxer===
*Create a male Redguard, Nord, Orc, or Khajiit with Hand to Hand, Speechcraft, Athletics, Light Armor, Block, and whatever else as major skills, choose combat as their specialty, and Strength and Endurance as preferred attributes.

*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.

When you're not in combat in the Arena, wear a pair of pants that are either your training pants, (some simple cloth pants most lower-class characters wear) or some enchanted light armor greaves with Fortify Fatigue or Hand to Hand. When in the Arena, wear the Light Raiment. As expected, box your opponents to death. You can use a Disintegrate Weapon spell to force the Arena combatants to fight you in a legitimate boxing match.

Never wear shoes. Or a shirt, most of the time. You can often wear some wristbands however. Make many Restore Fatigue potions called Energy Drink. When you are punching someone and you are running out of Fatigue, drink them.

Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.

* {{pc22}}If you have the PC version, beat up essential NPCS, knock them unconscious, rinse, repeat, then delete the bounty and hostility with the console. This also works if you have the Staff of the Everscamp, which grants you unlimited scamps to beat up. Another good training technique is at [[Oblivion:Peryite|Peryite's Shrine]] (check page to see and prevent bug) because you don't get a bounty for hitting them and they never die.

It's short, not too informative, but it looks like a fun idea. What if it was easier to read and had more info?

===Boxer===
'''Character Type'''

*Race: For a traditional boxer, the human races work best, especially Redguard and Imperial. Any race is fine though.
*Class: You'll want to specialize in combat. The essential skills for a boxer are Hand to Hand, Athletics, and Block. Anything else is up to you.
*Looks: You might want your character to look beat up, with a slightly disfigured face.

'''Equipment'''

*Clothes: A male boxer just needs pants and some good shoes. Outside matches, a boxer would wear clothes for any social class, depending on how much money the boxer has.
*Food: Any boxer should have a healthy diet consisting of plenty of meat, vegetables, and water. Water? Make a potion with a Restore Fatigue effect, and name it Water (Or buy one) and drink it regularly. You can use the Duplication Glitch for infinite water.
*Weapons/Armor: Of course, this character fights with his fists for a weapon. However, you may want to put leather gauntlets on him/her instead of proper boxing gloves. Since most of your fighting will be done in the IC Arena, you'll have to wear the Light or Heavy Raiment.
*Other: Outside of the arena, you are basically a normal citizen.

'''Backstory'''

Boxers are trained fighters who fight for entertainment across the world. They usually fight inside a square ring, and with special gloves to make sure that their hands and other body parts aren't too injured during matches. Rules in a boxing match vary from league to league, but usually, the person who has the most physical strength and fleetness of foot wins. As a boxer in Cyrodiil, you'll be in the only fight league there is. The Imperial City Arena. You have no enemies or allies that you don't make yourself, and if you become arena champion, you'll have a lot of fans. Remember, Boxers train a lot and entertain the masses!

'''Ideas/Activities'''
*Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.
*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.
*You can learn alchemy and make potions that restore your fatigue and health over time, and call them 'Energy Drinks'
*You could learn destruction and cast spells that break your opponents' weapons during fights so that the fight becomes a pure fist fight.
*Perhaps you're out to prove that you can fight with your fists as well as anybody can fight with a sword. Be creative!

Tada! This new version was rushed, because I have to go soon, but I hope you get the idea. So, who approves of this?
[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 21:33, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

:Well its a lot more informative and organized. The section is a eh...popular area and I think it should go in there. For the record, I kinda want to either clean up ''extensively'' or get rid of the section altogether but if we do this and delete some of the more ridiculous categories, it should be much better.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 18:15, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm new to this whole Wiki thing, but I particularly liked the way the Assassin character-type roleplay article was set up. It starts off by describing what the roleplay is. This is helpful, as I never know what to expect when I go to the "Lifestyles" or "Jobs" pages. Within that section, which I think may deserve its own section, it recommends items or skills would be beneficial to that type of character. After that, it has a "Possible Activities" section. This gives you broad and general tips for the role, like say if you just wanted a few ways to make it more realistic for yourself. Then, further down, it lists more specific character ideas, titled "Variations". These sections give precise details that separate that particular style from the others around it. I've had my eye on the roleplaying pages for some time and I thought that this was one of the clearest and easiest ones to read pages I've seen in a long time.

Its just a suggestion, but I think the other character-type roleplaying articles would greatly benefit from following this sort of template. As a comparison, the Ruler page has a handful of sections that are all very similar, so wouldn't it be easier to, like the Assassin page, have a "Possible Activities" section, where all the obvious actions of being a ruler could be identified? Then, if needed, further detail could be given to the specific styles of rulers. This would eliminate so many sections saying the same things repeatedly.

This is just my small contribution to cleaning up the roleplaying section. [[User:Djdontcare|Djdontcare]] 11:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
==Tribesman==

Hey I had an idea, Tribesman!!! Here is an examples:

'''Zulu'''

The Zulu are known for their courage, adaptability and proficient skill with melee weapons. Choose a human race, Redguard recommended due to skin and strength. Use a mace and fists and wear nothing (if your a female you can wear a huntsman's vest) except a very expensive amulet and rings. Use the [[Oblivion:Wabbajack|Wabbajack]] at close range, to imitate an enchanted spear infused with the spirits of fallen Zulu to give it it's magical properties. You can use a Bow and Arrow but that is optional. Live in the outside world and in the hottest climate possible. Have followers and for computer users, use commands to change the race, outfits and everything else that makes a Zulu, a Zulu. For more fun, pretend the nearest city is leading a siege against your little tribe of up to nine and ambush the soldiers posted out the city like the actual Zulu did to the British. Then once a master of Blunt, Hand to Hand and/or Marksman but Archery is not needed, siege the city and kill all guards and break into the castle (you'll have to exit the city for Anvil or Skingrad) and kill the sieging count (if you're not outside Bravil or Leyawiin (after a certain Thieves Guild Quest), you will have to knock them unconscious and if you're outside the Imperial city you'll have to K.O. the High Chancellor). Your mission complete,
go to a cave and call it a shrine. Pray to the spirits, and recieve your last quest: Join the immortal spirits by suicide, go to a section where there are enemies and get killed (undead are recommended so they can be the spirits aiding you in your quest).

Here are some other tribes:

Native Americans

Tutsi

And any other ones you can think of, feel free to edit slightly but keep the general idea there!! {{unsigned|Golden Eagle}}

==Ugh, really==
(spoilers)

Did this page really have to include "...when avenging their death. For example, use Hannibal Traven's staff and robe when confronting Mannimarco". Yes, needlessly spoil the entire mages guild questline when there are thousands of non-specific examples. Why do you put such blatant spoilers in seemingly all user friendly pages? Sorry if I seem upset. But I am, as I find this really unnacceptable. {{unsigned|24.189.164.73|July 16, 2010}}

==Fast Travel==
There, I believe is continous water between the imperial city and anvil, if you are counting the ocean, so I reccomend changing the example to something more able. {{unsigned|67.82.73.143|July 20 2010}}

: Yes, but that's hardly fast is it? You would have to go right round Elsweyr and Valenwood. This is supposed to be about imagining ''faster'' modes of travel. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

==Suggested Mod==
I have seen others use this mod and it is very realistic, if you wish, you can install the Actor's Orb, which allows you to do specific animations like being staggered, creating potions, or sleepig like a vampire. ====

Oblivion talk:Mazoga the Orc (person)

2010-07-18T22:38:26Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Continued Levelling? */

I take it you noticed the link on my new [[Oblivion:People]] page that linked to the quest instead of the NPC? Was thinking we might have to start making Disambiguation pages, like on Wikipedia, but hopefully there shouldn't be too many other places where this happens. The only other ones I can think of might be Azani Blackheart and Mannimarco, King of Worms...

Another thing I just thought of is it might make sense to start an NPC template, kind of like the Place templates, with services offered, goods and spells sold (if applicable), related quests (both ones they start and ones they're involved in, with links to the quest pages of course), guild affiliations, maybe even a schedule so you can find them. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] 01:18, 5 July 2006 (EDT)

== Killing Mazoga ==

After getting the key to the Lodge and becoming Knight-Errants, will it matter if I kill Mazoga (because I seem to have difficulties getting the latest Armor and weapons when reaching the required level) or is she just company? I am already in the Dark Brotherhood, and I could use the extra infamy since I can barely use Deepscorn Hollow. The latest armor is also a nice bonus.
: I've never done it myself, and would feel terribly guilty if I did, but there's no reason why you '''can't''' kill her. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 15:33, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::Okay thanks. I am a sadistic person when it comes to anyone that doesn't serve a purpose anymore, and combine that with jealousy because she will have Ebony in one level (where I walk around in Dwarven/Orcish and an Imperial Horseman helmet) and you quite literally get a deadly mix. I don't think that even '''if''' she would bring back Black bows for me to sell, that I could resist taking it. Generally, the only thing keeping me from having a completly evil character (probably a vampire too) is that I can't scare people into talking to me. Would get pretty boring I think. - [[User:Korunox|Korunox]] 18:56, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I just gave her a full set of permanent bound armor, then i stole her latest armor, and the her armor (the leveled set) keeps respawning in her inventory well shes wearing the permanent bound armour i gave her. (so every time she gets a better armour i look in her inventory and take it, well shes wearing the bound armour). Thats a good trick if you want the latest armour without killing her. Or you could just keep the permanent bound armour.
:::: I gave her a permanent bound sword and stole her Elven one, but 9 levels after, she still had her dwavern armor. I was level 18. When I didn't give her the bound sword, her armor leveled with me like normal. [[Special:Contributions/68.113.150.31|68.113.150.31]] 20:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

== Mazoga quest bug ==

While doing the quest where you have to go to Fisherman's Rock, I got there before Mazoga and waited for her, then I talked to Mazoga when she got there, then she told me to get out of the way, after that she pulled out her sword and attacked the four bandits before speaking to them, then she killed all four and I had no option but to say that I killed the bandits when SHE killed them, and then it said she won't be very happy with me. Reloaded after and then didn't talk to her and the quest carried on as normal. [[User:Sutch|Sutch]] 17:33, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

I think I've figured out what sometimes causes this bug. Run to the camp, or fast travel to a location that's further away than the tower and run to the camp from there, just get there before Magoza. If there's a generic Bandit sleeping in a tent or walking around the camp kill him. It seems that when he attacks Magoza the Orc the other bandits join in.
:Independently confirmed before I read this. I had this same problem. First attempt was a 5 on 2 fight. The second time I had Mazoga wait, then was able to single out the bandit. Once he was dead I told Mazoga to follow again and the quest ran as intended. Next time I'll check the camp before taking the first quest. [[User:Kylerion|Kylerion]] 06:32, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mazoga's Death ==

After completing the quest, I left Leyawiin and came back, and Mazoga was dead at the gate! I didn't kill her, so what might've caused it? I know the AI in the game is a bit messed up (hence being able to create large street brawls), but who killed her? [[User:Successfully harvested cheese|Successfully harvested cheese]] 01:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
:It's difficult to say how she might have died. She's not an essential NPC, so this kind of thing can happen quite often. –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 01:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
If I were you, i'de load a previous saved game where Mazoga the Orc IS Alive, and try KEEPING her alive. (Via restore health spells on touch/target, shield other spells, etc.). If this fails, I would simply try the quest at a higher level were Mazoga is in full Daedric Armor and is capable of single-handedly killing attackers, without help, before finishing, thus before she is CAPABLE Of dieing. As to what killed her, it could of been a number of things, but if you finished the quest ALREADY then i'de save periodically to prevent this in the future. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 22:19, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mazoga's Death Continued ==

I've been encountering a strange bug whenever entering Leyawiin Castle, that all the guards in the area surround and kill her within 60 seconds of entering. I have not yet started her related quest, yet it tells me that I have failed it because she is dead. I have tried reloading to earlier saves but the same thing happens each time. Is there a solution for this? [[Special:Contributions/24.236.136.82|24.236.136.82]] 06:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Black Bow Bandits

2010-07-18T22:33:36Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Mazoga and Black Bows */

== Weekday Names ==
I suggest that we put a translation for Turdas (and other days) for those of us who aren't the best or most in love with days in The Elder Scrolls... Just a suggestion.[[User:Drake3555|Drake3555]] 23:31, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
:I don't see how that would help - the day in the game is given in Elder Scrolls terminology, so relating it to real-life days of the week in this article would be completely irrelevant. Anyhow, if you wanted to know what the days are equivalent to, that's what the [[Lore:Calendar|Calendar]] page is for. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 01:29, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::Actually some sort of a tip with regard to, if not what day of the week they are, at least whether they are consecutive days or not, would really be a help! --[[Special:Contributions/85.64.35.231|85.64.35.231]] 02:48, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

:::The link Lurlock provides should be sufficient enough, but perhaps the day names can be converted into links to the Calendar page. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 20:12, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

== Quest Repeatable? ==
Is this quest repeatable as the weeks go by? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 16:28, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:If you mean, "Can you collect the bounty for more bows?", then the answer is yes. Provided you keep killing Black Bow Bandits and bringing back their bows, you can collect money right through to the end of the game. --[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 18:41, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

Does Mazoga have to be alive the whole time to keep it going? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 18:49, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:I don't believe so, no, though obviously the Count does. --[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 18:53, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

:No, in fact Mazoga can die before you finish with the quest to kill Black Brugo, though not before you turn in the quest to take her to Fisherman's Rock. Once you turn in the quest Black Brugo, if Mazoga is already dead you can loot her corpse again for her Leyawiin Shield and key. In reality the quest should be listed as being given by Marius Caro as opposed to Mazoga. [[User:Deadlykris|Deadlykris]] 12:21, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

==Mazoga and Black Bows==
If you travel with Mazoga to find black bow bandits, does she take any of the black bows?[[User:Master264|Master264]] 23:40, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
: No. I suppose it's theoretically possible that she would take one if her sword broke, but it's really, really unlikely. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 02:45, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

:Actually, one time I encountered her coincidentally in Rockmilk Cave, dead, and she did indeed have a Black Bow on her - but only one. It was a long time ago so she may not have been dead, I may have been pickpocketing her, I don't remember clearly. At any rate if she does take any bows, it's limited to only one. [[User:Deadlykris|Deadlykris]] 12:25, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

:Today I tried to pickpocket her just to see, and she actually had five Black bows, two Glass daggers, one Elven arrow and one Daedric arrow. It seems she might pick up any loot. [[User:SwedishBerzerker|SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com]] 11:49, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

I happened to enter one of the Black Bow hangouts to find Mazoga had already killed the inhabitants. I noticed none of the corpses had bows on them and when she killed the last one she walk over too it like she was looting it. I'm pretty sure she takes the bows. Also, this article makes it sound like you need Mazoga to hunt the bandits when she's irrelevant. [[User:66.167.233.79|66.167.233.79]] 15:00, 22 March 2009 (EDT)
:Mazoga has a few AI packages for her Bandit-hunting. On Morndas, Middas and Turdas, at 2pm she'll head out to Telepe, Rockmilk Cave and Undertow Caverns respectively. She'll stick around for 16 hours trying to find 5 Black Bows. It's similar to the AI package that causes [[Oblivion:M'aiq_the_Liar|M'aiq]] to collect calipers. --[[User:Dalimyr|Dalimyr]]([[User_talk:Dalimyr|T]] ≈ [[Special:Contributions/Dalimyr|C]]) 03:55, 23 March 2009 (EDT)
I can easily confirm this, at least for the Play Station 3 format, whenever she goes to an area she raids for black bow bandits, she systematically kills them all off. AFTER She killed ALL The Black Bow Bandits in the room, she walks back and loots all NPCs named "Black Bow Bandits" and takes their Black Bows. I tested this theory by placing a Black Bow in the inventory of a Black Bow Bandit, and sure enough, she went and picked it up. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 22:33, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Duplication? ==

Can you use the Item Duplication Glitch on Black Bows? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 17:41, 23 August 2008 (EDT)
:I don't think there's anything special about the bows that would prevent you from using any of the duplication glitches to make more of them. [[User:Deadlykris|Deadlykris]] 12:27, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
:: I haven't been able to get the scroll trick to work with them, but I can't test the arrows one (I'm patched up) –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:41, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
Well umm, RpehlRpeh, can't u just clear your cash (I hope I did not mispell) from your system? Or if you have oblivion on PC, uninstal the update?

== Mazoga the Orc stops ==

I followed her to Rockmilk Cave and aided her in battle. First she went into the central room, then to the right-hand room. After that, she won't go anywhere; I'll have to push her around if I want her to join me in battle. Is this a bug or it it something I have missed? Thanks!
EDIT: After I had cleared the rest of cave including the other section, I went out of it and returned to White Stallion Lodge the next day, Turdas at 2 pm. When she was going for some Black Bow Bandits again, I thought that she'd go to Undertow Cavern, but she went north instead, probably towards Rockmilk Cave again! Why does this happen? Is it mandatory for her to go through each whole cave?
[[User:SwedishBerzerker|SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com]] 11:49, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

== Black Bows for gold? ==

I'm new to this so forgive me if I offend or impose but, wouldn't using the duplication glitch on the black bows be a great way to get a fortune with the use of only 1 black bow. I'm thinking if you get 1 black bow and then duplicating it as many times as wanted to make a ton of gold could be a great and effective way of getting lots of gold with little and simple work. Odds are it's bound to work. Wouldn't it?

:There are many things you could duplicate and sell for money. Many of them are worth a fair bit more than black bows, but yes you could do that. I like the phrasing "Odds are it's bound to work." I recommend buying up every tavern's cheap food and brewing masses of potions for easy money, and without even cheating. --[[Special:Contributions/85.64.35.231|85.64.35.231]] 02:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Roleplayer242621

2010-07-18T22:24:28Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Why I Was Banned */

My bad on the last editation, it should have been marked a minor edit. Sorry! =).
[[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 15:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Hi! ==

hi Roleplayer242621!(that was a lot of numbers!)i just saw some of your comments on GKs and the other persons acount(can't rememeber the name)and wow you clearly want to help UESP even though i wasn't here when you had your other account you seem to have reformed and by the way GKs a girl not a guy and out of curosity why were you banned before?you don't have to ansewr if you don't wan't to)--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 14:48, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

==Why I Was Banned==
Yes, I do want to help the wikia, and I was totally out of line before. I feel I have reformed in a way meaning I am far more mature than before, I acted on impulses. I was banned for abusive behavior (vandalizing Nephele's page) among other things. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 22:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Mazoga the Orc (person)

2010-07-18T22:19:13Z

Roleplayer242621:

Oblivion talk:Mazoga the Orc (person)

2010-07-18T22:14:52Z

Roleplayer242621:

I take it you noticed the link on my new [[Oblivion:People]] page that linked to the quest instead of the NPC? Was thinking we might have to start making Disambiguation pages, like on Wikipedia, but hopefully there shouldn't be too many other places where this happens. The only other ones I can think of might be Azani Blackheart and Mannimarco, King of Worms...

Another thing I just thought of is it might make sense to start an NPC template, kind of like the Place templates, with services offered, goods and spells sold (if applicable), related quests (both ones they start and ones they're involved in, with links to the quest pages of course), guild affiliations, maybe even a schedule so you can find them. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] 01:18, 5 July 2006 (EDT)

== Killing Mazoga ==

After getting the key to the Lodge and becoming Knight-Errants, will it matter if I kill Mazoga (because I seem to have difficulties getting the latest Armor and weapons when reaching the required level) or is she just company? I am already in the Dark Brotherhood, and I could use the extra infamy since I can barely use Deepscorn Hollow. The latest armor is also a nice bonus.
: I've never done it myself, and would feel terribly guilty if I did, but there's no reason why you '''can't''' kill her. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 15:33, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::Okay thanks. I am a sadistic person when it comes to anyone that doesn't serve a purpose anymore, and combine that with jealousy because she will have Ebony in one level (where I walk around in Dwarven/Orcish and an Imperial Horseman helmet) and you quite literally get a deadly mix. I don't think that even '''if''' she would bring back Black bows for me to sell, that I could resist taking it. Generally, the only thing keeping me from having a completly evil character (probably a vampire too) is that I can't scare people into talking to me. Would get pretty boring I think. - [[User:Korunox|Korunox]] 18:56, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I just gave her a full set of permanent bound armor, then i stole her latest armor, and the her armor (the leveled set) keeps respawning in her inventory well shes wearing the permanent bound armour i gave her. (so every time she gets a better armour i look in her inventory and take it, well shes wearing the bound armour). Thats a good trick if you want the latest armour without killing her. Or you could just keep the permanent bound armour.
:::: I gave her a permanent bound sword and stole her Elven one, but 9 levels after, she still had her dwavern armor. I was level 18. When I didn't give her the bound sword, her armor leveled with me like normal. [[Special:Contributions/68.113.150.31|68.113.150.31]] 20:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

== Mazoga quest bug ==

While doing the quest where you have to go to Fisherman's Rock, I got there before Mazoga and waited for her, then I talked to Mazoga when she got there, then she told me to get out of the way, after that she pulled out her sword and attacked the four bandits before speaking to them, then she killed all four and I had no option but to say that I killed the bandits when SHE killed them, and then it said she won't be very happy with me. Reloaded after and then didn't talk to her and the quest carried on as normal. [[User:Sutch|Sutch]] 17:33, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

I think I've figured out what sometimes causes this bug. Run to the camp, or fast travel to a location that's further away than the tower and run to the camp from there, just get there before Magoza. If there's a generic Bandit sleeping in a tent or walking around the camp kill him. It seems that when he attacks Magoza the Orc the other bandits join in.
:Independently confirmed before I read this. I had this same problem. First attempt was a 5 on 2 fight. The second time I had Mazoga wait, then was able to single out the bandit. Once he was dead I told Mazoga to follow again and the quest ran as intended. Next time I'll check the camp before taking the first quest. [[User:Kylerion|Kylerion]] 06:32, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mazoga's Death ==

After completing the quest, I left Leyawiin and came back, and Mazoga was dead at the gate! I didn't kill her, so what might've caused it? I know the AI in the game is a bit messed up (hence being able to create large street brawls), but who killed her? [[User:Successfully harvested cheese|Successfully harvested cheese]] 01:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
:It's difficult to say how she might have died. She's not an essential NPC, so this kind of thing can happen quite often. –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 01:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

== Mazoga's Death Continued ==

I've been encountering a strange bug whenever entering Leyawiin Castle, that all the guards in the area surround and kill her within 60 seconds of entering. I have not yet started her related quest, yet it tells me that I have failed it because she is dead. I have tried reloading to earlier saves but the same thing happens each time. Is there a solution for this? [[Special:Contributions/24.236.136.82|24.236.136.82]] 06:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

== Continued Levelling? ==
After the completion of all quests involving Mazoga the Orc, if you level up to a level were new "best possible gear" is aquirable, is she atuomatically upgraded with such gear, or does she get stuck with the gear she had at the end of the completion of the last quest involving her? Thanks in advance to anyone that tries to help. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 22:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Roleplayer242621

2010-07-18T22:04:17Z

Roleplayer242621: Y

My bad on the last editation, it should have been marked a minor edit. Sorry! =).
[[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 15:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Hi! ==

hi Roleplayer242621!(that was a lot of numbers!)i just saw some of your comments on GKs and the other persons acount(can't rememeber the name)and wow you clearly want to help UESP even though i wasn't here when you had your other account you seem to have reformed and by the way GKs a girl not a guy and out of curosity why were you banned before?you don't have to ansewr if you don't wan't to)--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 14:48, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

==Why I Was Banned==
Yes, I do want to help the wikia, and I was totally out of line before. I feel I ahve reformed in a way meaning I am far more mature than before, I acted on impulses. I was banned for abusive behavior (vandalizing Nephele's page) among other things. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 22:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion:Other Specialty Gear

2010-04-09T00:22:42Z

Roleplayer242621:

{{Trail|Items}} [[Category:Oblivion-Armor|{{PAGENAME}}]]
{| class="wikitable"
!width=15%|Armor
!width=10%|ID
!width=10%|Type
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!width=55%|Notes
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Ancient Blades Helmet}}||000C8540||Heavy Helmet
|9||300||0||3.5
|Worn by the four Blade Champions in [[Oblivion:Sancre Tor|Sancre Tor]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Ancient Blades Shield}}||000C8541||Heavy Shield
|16||400||0||12
|Worn by two of the four Blade Champions in [[Oblivion:Sancre Tor|Sancre Tor]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Ancient Elven Helm}}||000150BA||Light Helmet
|0||440||0||4
|Found in [[Oblivion:Vahtacen|Vahtacen]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Armor of Tiber Septim}}||0001FECF||Heavy Cuirass
|40||900||190||11.25
|Found in [[Oblivion:Sancre Tor|Sancre Tor]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Ayleid Crown of Lindai}}||000A933E||Light Helmet
|1||0||0||0
|Broken version of the [[Oblivion:Ayleid Crown of Lindai|Ayleid Crown of Lindai]] which may be found during the [[Oblivion:Secrets of the Ayleids|Secrets of the Ayleids]] quest.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blackwood Boots}}||00038514||Heavy Boots
|14||400||130||5.5
|rowspan=6|Worn by members of the [[Oblivion:Blackwood Company|Blackwood Company]]. The player can wear the armor without any consequences: Fighters Guild members will not object, and Blackwood Company members will not mistake the player for a Blackwood member. Also noteable, you can get an entire set of Blackwood Armor from the dead corpse of a man named "Blackwood Company Member" during the quest "Trolls of the Forsaken Mine" at the mine called "Forsaken Mine".
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blackwood Cuirass}}||00038510||Heavy Cuirass
|44||750||480||13
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blackwood Gauntlets}}||00038511||Heavy Gauntlets
|10||380||130||5.5
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blackwood Greaves}}||00038512||Heavy Greaves
|26||570||240||8
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blackwood Helmet}}||00038513||Heavy Helmet
|10||380||130||5.5
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blackwood Shield}}||0003647D||Heavy Shield
|20||580||240||15.5
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blades Boots}}||00023921 00022F20||Heavy Boots
|10.5||500||0||4
|rowspan=6|Worn by the Emperor's Blades. The second ID refers to those being worn by the guards during the introduction. The only difference in most cases is that it cannot be looted from their corpses.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blades Cuirass}}||00023318 00022F65||Heavy Cuirass
|35||1000||0||10.75 15
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blades Gauntlets}}||0002391C 00022F6F||Heavy Gauntlets
|7||500||0||4
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blades Greaves}}||00023329 00022F70||Heavy Greaves
|21||800 500||0||6 8
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blades Helmet}}||00000C09 00022F71||Heavy Helmet
|7||500||0||4
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Blades Shield}}||00023922 00022F7F||Heavy Shield
|14||1000||0||13
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Bound Boots}}||0002626A||Light Boots
|0||750||0||7.5
|Created by [[Oblivion:Bound Armor|Bound Boots]] spell.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Bound Cuirass}}||0002626B||Heavy Cuirass
|0||1500||0||18.75
|Created by [[Oblivion:Bound Armor|Bound Cuirass]] spell.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Bound Gauntlets}}||0002626C||Light Gauntlets
||0||750||0||7.5
|Created by [[Oblivion:Bound Armor|Bound Gauntlets]] spell.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Bound Greaves}}||00026270||Heavy Greaves
|0||1100||0||11.25
|Created by [[Oblivion:Bound Armor|Bound Greaves]] spell.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Bound Helmet}}||00026272 00051B47||Light Helmet Heavy Helmet
|0||750||0||7.5 6
|Created by [[Oblivion:Bound Armor|Bound Helmet]] spell. Summoned by [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Agents|Mythic Dawn Agents]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Bound Mythic Dawn Armor}}||00033525||Heavy Raiment
|0||1500||0||20
|Summoned by [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Agents|Mythic Dawn Agents]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Bound Shield}}||00026263||Light Shield
|0||1100||0||22.5
|Created by [[Oblivion:Bound Armor|Bound Shield]] spell.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Broken Shield}}||0006E2E1||Light Shield
|20||10||2||0
|A broken Blackwood Shield, found in [[Oblivion:Nonwyll Cavern|Nonwyll Cavern]] during [[Oblivion:The Master's Son|The Master's Son]] quest.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Emperor's Boots}}||0001FECE||Heavy Boots
|10.5||1000||0||7.5
|rowspan=5|Worn by [[Oblivion:Brother Martin|Brother Martin]] during [[Oblivion:Defense of Bruma|The Defense of Bruma]]. Can't be looted. The cuirass is enchanted with the following enchantments:
* [[Oblivion:Reflect Damage|Reflect Damage]] 50% on Self
* [[Oblivion:Reflect Spell|Reflect Spell]] 50% on Self
* [[Oblivion:Fortify Health|Fortify Health]] 50 points on Self
None of the other items are enchanted.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Emperor's Cuirass}}||0003ABB9||Heavy Cuirass
|35||2000||0||18.75
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Emperor's Gauntlets}}||0001FED0||Heavy Gauntlets
|7||1000||0||7.5
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Emperor's Greaves}}||0001FED1||Heavy Greaves
|21||1500||0||11.25
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Emperor's Helmet}}||0001FED2||Heavy Helmet
|7||1000||0||7.5
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Knights of the Thorn Shield}}||0012DD1D||Heavy Shield
|14||375||110||13.5
|Carried by [[Oblivion:Farwil Indarys|Farwil Indarys]] and [[Oblivion:Bremman Senyan|Bremman Senyan]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Leather Cuirass|Blackwater Leather Cuirass}}||0000C1D6||Light Cuirass
|7.5||160||75||8.25
|Worn by the Blackwater Brigands ([[Oblivion:Lynch|Lynch]], [[Oblivion:Minx|Minx]], [[Oblivion:Selene|Selene]], and [[Oblivion:Wrath|Wrath]]) encountered during the quest [[Oblivion:An Unexpected Voyage|An Unexpected Voyage]]. Its appearance is different from a regular [[Oblivion:Armor#Leather|Leather Cuirass]], having a design (presumably the Blackwater Brigands' emblem) branded onto it. It also has a higher armor rating and monetary value.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Pinarus' Iron Cuirass}}||000CBD4F||Heavy Cuirass
|30||300||85||10
|Found in [[Oblivion:Gweden Farm|Gweden Farm]]'s basement during [[Oblivion:The Siren's Deception|The Siren's Deception]] quest. Belongs to [[Oblivion:Pinarus Inventius|Pinarus Inventius]], but he won't take it back.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Pit Boots}}||00008A78||Light Boots
|0||0||0||0
|rowspan=5|Not found in-game. Likely were intended to be involved with the [[Oblivion:Arena (faction)|Arena]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Pit Cuirass}}||00008A76||Light Cuirass
|0||0||0||0
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Pit Gauntlets}}||00008A79||Light Gauntlets
|0||0||0||0
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Pit Greaves}}||00008A77||Light Greaves
|0||0||0||0
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Pit Helmet}}||00008A7A||Light Helmet
|0||0||0||0
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rough Leather Boots}}||0015985B||Light Boots
|2.25||80||10||2.5
|rowspan=2|Found on a skeleton during the introduction.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rough Leather Cuirass}}||0015985C||Light Cuirass
|7.5||160||35||6.25
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rough Leather Gauntlets}}||0015985D||Light Gauntlets
|1.5||10||80||2.5
|rowspan=2|Not found in-game.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rough Leather Helmet}}||0015985F||Light Helmet
|1.5||10||80||2.5
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rough Leather Shield}}||00047AC8||Light Shield
|3||100||16||7
|Found near a skeleton during the introduction.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Ruined Akaviri Shield}}||0001C161||Heavy Shield
|14||225||25||4.5
|Used by [[Oblivion:Undead Akaviri Soldier|Undead Akaviri Soldiers]] in [[Oblivion:Pale Pass Fort|Pale Pass Fort]].
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rusty Iron Cuirass}}||000661C1||Heavy Cuirass
|30||250||40||9
|rowspan=2|Found in a crate during the introduction.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rusty Iron Greaves}}||000661C3||Heavy Greaves
|18||175||20||5.5
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rusty Iron Gauntlets}}||000661C2||Heavy Gauntlets
|6||125||10||3.5
|Not found in-game.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rusty Iron Helmet}}||000661C4||Heavy Helmet
|6||120||10||3.5
|rowspan=2|Found on the ground during the introduction.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Rusty Iron Shield}}||000661C5||Heavy Shield
|12||175||20||11
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Umbra's Ebony Boots}}||0000A307 0000A30D||Heavy Boots
|15.75||600 950||250 550||5.5 6
|rowspan=6|Worn by [[Oblivion:Umbra (person)|Umbra]]. The stronger type is found at level 15+.
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Umbra's Ebony Cuirass}}||0000A308 0000A30E||Heavy Cuirass
|52.5||1200 1900||940 1900||13.75 15
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Umbra's Ebony Gauntlets}}||0000A309 0000A30F||Heavy Gauntlets
|10.5||600 950||250 550||5.5 6
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Umbra's Ebony Greaves}}||0000A30A 0000A310||Heavy Greaves
|31.5||900 1425||460 1000||8.25 9
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Umbra's Ebony Helmet}}||0000A30B 0000A311||Heavy Helmet
|10.5||600 950||250 550||5.5 6
|-
|{{Linkable Entry|Umbra's Ebony Shield}}||0000A30C 0000A312||Heavy Shield
|21||900 1425||460 1000||16.5 18
|}

Oblivion talk:Other Specialty Gear

2010-04-09T00:21:02Z

Roleplayer242621: /* Blackwood Armor Question */

== Emperor's Armor ==

Emperor's Boots,
Emperor's Cuirass,
Emperor's Gauntlets,
Emperor's Greaves,
Emperor's Helmet,
Can you Wear these items? --[[User:68.81.38.129|68.81.38.129]] 21:01, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
:Probably, but it would take some [[Oblivion:Console|Console]] cheating. -[[User:Puddle|Puddle]] 22:10, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
::Actually, you'd have to located them in the CS under "LegionDragon" and check the "playable" box. Otherwise, if you try to obtain them (by going to the TestingHall or whatever), they'd just dissappear. That's my experience anyway. {{unsigned|24.174.163.173|2 October 2008}}

:::The problem is that as long as Playable is unchecked, you cannot see the items in any inventory. But if you add them by console, you can still equip them with the console. Use <code>player.equipitem <FormID></code>
:::The method described in the comment above is better though, it just requires you to create a small plugin for yourself. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]] < [[User_talk:Timenn|talk]] > 09:46, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Blackwood Company Armor ==

Does anyone know how many full sets of Blackwood Armor are available in-game? I have about 9 shields, but only 2 helmets. As far as the other pieces, they fall somewhere in-between. Maybe there are other locations apart from the Company members in the Blackwood Hall, Forsaken Mine and Glademist Cave to find the different pieces? I'd love to complete the sets, so, anyone? (PS3 user)

Also, unless someone objects, could a link to the "Other Specialty Gear" page be added to the main "Oblivion: Armor" page? I think it might be helpful.[[User:204.108.237.194|204.108.237.194]] 10:17, 12 June 2009 (EDT)Marcus

:Oblivion:Armor is actually intended for base unenchanted armor. But there is a link to this page via the [[Oblivion:Items]] page (which is the collection article of all items).

:Only two Blackwood Helmets can be found in the game. Considering those items are the rarest, there are thus 2 full sets of Blackwood Armor in the game. Since you get no additional benefit from additional sets, I feel it is not necessary to list all the additional locations of the armor pieces. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]] < [[User_talk:Timenn|talk]] > 11:09, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for the prompt reply. Much appreciated.[[User:204.108.237.194|204.108.237.194]] 16:06, 12 June 2009 (EDT)Marcus

== why is umbra armour on here ==

it already has a leveled list, and is on the leveled items article, so why is it also here, it seems a little out of place to me [[User:Mikeyboy52|Mikeyboy52]] 04:20, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
:Because it's rather unique, since it will ''always'' be ebony armor no matter at what level you are. The only thing that changes is the protection that the armor offers at different levels. --[[Special:Contributions/S'drassa|MC]]• [[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 15:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

==Blackwood Armor Question==
Does anyone know if you can aquire a ENTIRE Set of Blackwood armor without using console commands (As I have the Play Station 3 version of this game) without being kicked from being "in the Blackwood Company"? (I enjoy roleplaying and I would like having full Blackwood Armor AND Being in the Blackwood faction at the same time). Anyone know? If possible, how? Thanks a tun to whoever answers or tries to answer, I appreciate it.
[[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 17:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
: Spoiler warning: if you finish the FG questline you will probably have a chance to get a nearly complete set of the BW armor due to warring with them. However, if you're on the quest where you've "joined" the BW company and for whatever reason don't wish to quit (for RP'ing or whatever) - acquiring the armor may prove somewhat more difficult. You might try leading an armored BW member somewhere dangerous to their health and letting nature take it's course or something along those lines. Or you could change your RP a bit and perhaps become the "New Blackwood company" after finishing the FG quests. [[User:Walbert|Walbert]] 18:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I figured it out. You can get an entire set of blackwood armor from looting a man's corpse in the Forsaken Mine during the Fighters Guild Quest "Trolls of the Forsaken Mine". The man's name is "Blackwood Company Member". The armor has no note of this, so I think I should add one. [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 00:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Nephele

2010-04-08T18:11:04Z

Roleplayer242621:

{{notice|'''Welcome to my talk page!''' [[User:Nephele#My Current Status|At the current time]], I am unlikely to respond quickly to any questions posted on my talk page. If you have any admin-related questions, please post those on the [[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard|Administrator Noticeboard]]; for other questions, please ask one of the site's [[UESPWiki:Mentors|Mentors]]. |bgcolor=#FFFFCC}}
{{TOCright}}
'''Archives''':
* '''2006''': [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2006-07|July and earlier]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2006-10|August-October]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2006-12|November-December]]
* '''2007''': [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-01|January]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-02|February]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-03|March]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-04|April]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-05|May]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-06|June]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-07|July]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-08|August]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-09|September]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-10|October]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-11|November]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2007-12|December]]
* '''2008''': [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2008-01|January]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2008-02|February]], [[User talk:Nephele/Archive-2008-03|March]], [[/Archive-2008-04|April]], [[/Archive-2008-05|May]], [[/Archive-2008-06|June]], [[/Archive-2008-07|July]], [[/Archive-2008-08|August]], [[/Archive-2008-09|September]], [[/Archive-2008-10|October]], [[/Archive-2008-11|November]], [[/Archive-2008-12|December]]
* '''2009''': [[/Archive-2009-01|January]], [[/Archive-2009-02|February]], [[/Archive-2009-03|March]], [[/Archive-2009-04|April]], [[/Archive-2009-05|May]], [[/Archive-2009-06|June]], [[/Archive-2009-07|July]]
'''Cookies''': [[User:Nephele/Cookie Jar|My cookie jar]]

== Missing pages ==

Hi Nephele, take a look in the wanted pages. Everything from tamriel rebuilt from the queen's cutlass upwards is missing, except hammerfell, vassa and the reckless maiden. I usually take a look in the wanted pages which page is needed most and i create them in that order. So could you restore all the tamriel rebuilt pages including and above the queen's cutlass? Thanks already. There are a couple of pages below that one that are missing but they are all class redirects and they will be easily reproduced, probably much to the dismay of Elliot..[[User:Theviking|Theviking]] 19:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
:I've restored all the pages I can at this point. That includes the addition of {{TR3|Nchazdrumn}} and {{TR3|Tel Onoria}}. However, for two other places I could only find the description pages, not the full place pages, namely, <nowiki>[[Tes3Mod:Tamriel Rebuilt/Bal Oyra, Keep/Description]]</nowiki>, <nowiki>[[Tes3Mod:Tamriel Rebuilt/The Queen's Cutlass/Description]]</nowiki>. Unfortunately, I think you'll need to reconstruct those place pages (as well as all the redirects). Sorry I couldn't help more. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 05:40, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
::A, shame, because the queens cutlass was complete and an example for the Tamriel Rebuilt taverns. I've looked in my history and I can't find it too. Still, thanks for all the pages that you could recover.[[User:Theviking|Theviking]] 18:08, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

== Database Restored Using Binlogs ==

I believe you used the MySQL binlogs to restore the missing records after the July 19th crash, correct? If so could you create a brief documentation somewhere detailing the process and any "gotchas" you encountered in the process? No rush for this...was just curious and it would be useful for future backup/restores. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] 20:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Thank you ==

Thank you for taking care of [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Dlarsh&curid=74409&diff=459331&oldid=459328/ this], it is greatly appreciated. -[[User:Dlarsh|Dlarsh]]([[User_talk:Dlarsh|Talk]],[[Special:Contributions/Dlarsh|Contribs)]] 02:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
:You're welcome! I would have done it even if you hadn't pre-bribed me with a cookie ;) And thank you for doing such a good job cleaning up vandalism that you've become a target! --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:42, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
::For some disturbing reason, I did get a little excited when I saw that my page had been vandalised. I guess I consider it a bizarre sign that I'm doing ''something'' right :). Anyway, thanks again. -[[User:Dlarsh|Dlarsh]]([[User_talk:Dlarsh|Talk]],[[Special:Contributions/Dlarsh|Contribs)]] 03:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

== Iptable Rules ==

When you setup your bad_ip_list iptable rules did you set it up to save/restore the rule when the server restarts? -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]]

== MediaWiki and Files ==

I apologize for reading too much into your comments about file uploads recently.

I should have realized you didn't mean to be dismissive, but it seemed like that at the time. I don't just edit on this site, and some of the other sites I use have concerns over MediaWiki's file handling. You don't know that, but you do know that I'm a programmer, and one who knows databases pretty well. On this site, we have a "recommended" file limit of 150K. I've been working with JKing on his DOSBox helper (he very kindly [[General:DOSBox_helper#Acknowledgements|acknowledges]] that) so I know the file he was talking about is ~4.25MB, or roughly ''30 times larger'' than our recommended size. I therefore thought it was worth checking that there would be no problems. My response came from what seemed to be a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handwaving handwave] at my concerns. In retrospect I simply didn't explain myself correctly.

The only thing I would say is that I would hope you know me well enough to know I'm not just posting messages to boost my edit count. On 95% of the server stuff, I'm happy to leave it to you and Dave, since I'll freely admit that I'm out of my depth. When I do post, though, it's because I genuinely feel I have a contribution to make. It doesn't excuse my response but it might help explain it. –[[User:Rpeh|rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 21:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks for the followup. Let me assure you that there's no reason to worry whether I'm thinking that you're posting to boost your edit count -- that's about the least likely thought to cross my mind ;)
:I apologize that my comment could be read as dismissive. I always appreciate your input on server issues (or really on any topic). In this particular case, I was really just confused about what exactly you were suggesting; my overly brief response focussed on the detail I found most puzzling, especially in the context of the rest of the discussion. Also, I hadn't stopped to think about limits other than the 2M PHP limit, and therefore completely overlooked the recommended 150K file size limit (which seems to be [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual_talk:$wgUploadSizeWarning generally confusing] -- as far as I can tell it's meaningless, and we should perhaps change it to a number with at least some symbolic signficance, such as our recommended maximum size for screenshots, or the average file size necessary to prevent our hard drive from filling up). For what it's worth, MW also has an even more meaningless [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgMaxUploadSize $wgMaxUploadSize] parameter, default value 100 MB, which ''might'' be more representative of the file size that the developers ''think'' MW can handle. So your choice: MW thinks it's too large, MW thinks it's well below the limit -- or MW doesn't know anything :P
:Also, I fully agree that longterm we may need to modify how we handle files -- in particular given Daveh's wishlist, and also given our continuing glitches with image uploads. Perhaps it would be good to start collecting notes (solutions adopted by other websites, problems/limitations of MW, etc.), for example on the [[UESPWiki:File Database Design|File Database Design]] page. On the other hand, the immediate issue seems to be JKing's single file, in which case we're probably limited to the options available right now. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 23:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

::If you go by anything on the [[UESPWiki:File Database Design|File Database Design]] page keep in mind it was written years ago when we had just moved to a Wiki based site. I haven't looked at it recently but likely lots of things are outdated/wrong. Its easy enough to increase the upload limit size if necessary. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] 03:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== HELP! ==

Im playing Oblivion on the pc and im doing the shrine of the crusader mission. I am currently stuck underground and i have no previous saves. Is there any way of getting out? {{Unsigned|Nmoyer1014|18 August 2009}}

:Can you elaborate on how you are stuck? Are you lost? Please see the quest article about [[Oblivion:The Shrine of the Crusader|The Shrine of the Crusader]]. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 10:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

== Description / Author Reserved Words ==

Please can you provide more information on how these work? The [[UESPWiki:MetaTemplate|documentation]] says that these are "used as a special variable by #load, for backwards compatibility with current wiki pages" but I can't get them to work. Please can you provide an example? –[[User:Rpeh|rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 22:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:I'm guessing the problem is just that there is no #save data for the quest pages. Given how expensive page-existence checks can be, #load only looks for description/author pages if there is some type of entry for the page in the save database -- so that the lookup isn't done for every redlink or invalid article. So [[Template:Quest Header|Quest Header]] needs to have a #save statement added to it (e.g., <nowiki>{{#save:ID}}</nowiki>). I also realized after coding the /Description and /Author lookups that it's possible to just have the [[Template:Quest Header|Quest Header]] template read those subpages and then #save their contents (unless description/author parameters have been moved to the quest page). --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 05:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

== Search Preferences Issue ==

Hi Nephele. For a while now, I've been having the problem that occasionally my search preferences reverted to no namespaces selected and only the bottom three boxes (Search Titles, Search Talk Pages, and List Redirects) ticked off. Well, I just noticed that when I save my preferences in Firefox, all is well; when I save my preferences in IE8, they come back as blank but for the bottom three after I save. (As an aside, my default browser is IE8 when I click on a link, but I have specific shortcuts to Firefox for Patrolling and such, so which browser I use depends what I did to open it.) I'm thinking that the problem is something IE8-specific, and the reason it seemed intermittent to me was simply because of how I hop back and forth between the two. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 21:33, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
:Actually, I had that problem too, but I think it happened when I switched from only using Firefox to only using Chrome. I don't think it's cleared out since I re-customized the preferences though. –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 21:37, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
::For me, it's not ''just'' at the browser switchover, or so it seems. The Search Preferences page comes up blank the moment after I save it in IE8. I haven't done enough testing to be sure whether that actually affects the searching, though. It doesn't seem to. My impression is that the Preferences take effect regardless of the fact that they appear blank, and that those prefrences get cleared whenever a search fails to find anything. There could be something going on with the browser switchover too, though. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 21:49, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
:::OK, I just managed to get access to IE8, and I'm getting the same thing: pulling up "my preferences"->"search" in IE8 gives all-blank namespaces, whereas Firefox correctly shows my selected namespaces. Whether I can find the cause, though, is another question ;) I'll let you know. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 21:58, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Hmm, first guess is a set of missing quote marks, which would be enough to make browsers handle things differently. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 22:03, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I just stumbled across something that seems ''really'' odd and will hopefully help pinpoint the issue: when clicking separately on Oblivion and then Shivering, nothing got saved; when clicking on Oblivion and then shift-clicking on Shivering, everything was fine. How's that for weird? —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 22:19, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

::::::(Edit conflict) Yes, the quotes were the problem. I've fixed the code on content2, so if I pull up [http://content2.uesp.net/wiki/Special:Preferences content2's page] the problem's now fixed in IE8 -- at least for me. However, content1 hasn't been updated yet, so for the next few hours you're likely to still see inconsistent bizarreness using a standard [[Special:Preferences]] link. I'll be able to fully fix the problem by tomorrow at the latest.
::::::And for anyone else who's curious, the nature of the problem means that it could be popping up in numerous browsers (basically, anything except Firefox, which just happened to deal with the error properly, even though it really shouldn't have). So anyone who has noticed strange things with search preferences, no matter what browser you use, wait until tomorrow and hopefully it should be fixed. If not, then let me know because then there's something else going on, too. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 22:26, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

::::::Robin Hood: at this point, the oddness is probably just because the problem is half-fixed: on one try your request probably went to content2 (which did the right thing); on the next try your request probably went to content1 (which did the same old wrong thing). --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 22:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

== Frostcrag Spire Alchemy Garden, Ingredients and Respawning ==

Thanks for making the change to my contribution.

I did some tests with my game and this is what I found:

:Some of the conclusions I drew from my tests are wrong. The main problem is that is I did not know that respawning happens only after 72 '''whole''' hours. --[[User:Jxavier|Jxavier]] 05:09, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

* For plants to respawn, the character must be out of the area (cell) for three at least 3 '''consecutive''' game days.

* If the character re-enters the area within 3 days, the wait time is reset.

* In the case of the Frostcrag Spire Alchemy Garden, the character must leave the Frostcrag area (cell), not just the Frostcrag Spire Living Area. In the case of Frostcrag, just going outside does not do it. Unlike many of the other areas (buildings, caves, etc) going out of the front door does not cause the character to leave the area. The character has to move some distance from the Frostcrag building to be out of the area.
:: This is wrong. Going out front door does work. But you have to wait 72 '''whole''' hours. So really you have to wait 3 days plus one hour. --[[User:Jxavier|Jxavier]] 05:09, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I am new to the game and I have seen seveal pages that mention it takes 3 game days for an object to respawn. But none of these page go into the detail that character has to leave the area and stay out of the area for 3 '''consecutive''' days. I did a search on the key word '''Respawn'''. It came up with the page Respawning NPCs. I could not find a page that fully explained the respawning process.

Is there a good page to explain the respawning process, so that other pages can link to it?

Also, think a special mention is still in order on the Frostcrag page, because it is a place where the respawning issue is more obvious.

--[[User:Jxavier|Jxavier]] 00:25, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

:The most detailed description of respawning times is at [[Oblivion:Dungeons#Loot]]; ingredients work the same way as chests and other containers. If you know of other places that mention respawning, it would probably be helpful to add that link (which, for example, I just did on the Ingredients page). Adding links to information ends up being one of the toughest parts of maintaining a wiki ;)
:I didn't realize that Frostcrag Spire has different rules in terms of cell re-loading -- if the zones are linked like that, then it would be helpful to figure out what setting in the construction set is responsible (so that we can understand the mechanism, and predict exactly where else it might occur). Those details would belong on the Frostcrag page.
:However, any details on respawning would apply to any location, and so the information would be more useful on a broader page, namely [[Oblivion:Dungeons#Loot]], or [[Oblivion:Ingredients#Availability]] if the details are specific just to ingredients. Other pages should just link to that one central location. That prevents redundancy, and makes sure that all of the details are collected in a single place, instead of having different details covered on each of a dozen different pages, making it necessary to read all dozen pages to get the complete picture.
:Welcome to the site, and feel free to ask if you have any other questions! --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 02:00, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

::Thank you for your reply.

::After reading [[Oblivion:Dungeons#Loot]] I found out even more about respawning. Specifically you must wait 72 hours from the next whole hour. So in many cases you must wait 73 hours.

::I agree that the details about respawning should be on a broader page. In fact I believe that both [[Oblivion:Ingredients#Availability]] and [[Oblivion:Dungeons#Loot]] should have a link to a page or a section on a page that describes respawning in general as it applies to both chests and Ingredients and other objects such as generic NPC's.

::What I would like to do is create a new page and use the wording from [[Oblivion:Dungeons#Loot]], but reword it to a more general case.

::My thought is to create a page named respawning.I would like your thoughts.

::--[[User:Jxavier|Jxavier]] 17:21, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

:::I suppose I could see reasons why an article more specifically on respawning could be useful -- although it really should have significantly more content than just the one paragraph from Dungeons#Loot. And keep in mind that there are articles such as [[ob:Containers|Containers]] and [[ob:Leveled Lists|Leveled Lists]], so the article can't add depth by expanding into related topics. One option might be to move [[ob:Respawning NPCs|Respawning NPCs]] to the new article, and then transform the NPC content into just one section of the article (which in the process would fix some of the problems with that article). Or if you don't have too much to add right now, you could just create a Respawning [[Help:redirect|redirect]] that points to the Dungeons section and continue to collect information there for now -- once (if) it expands too much, then the information could be moved.
:::If you need help with any of the wiki editing features (moving pages, creating redirects, etc), just ask! --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 19:06, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

::::I'd second the idea of a re-spawning article. I think a lot of the information that Nepehele has mentioned could be moved there with links/redirects to the Respawning page, including loot, NPCs, and especially if there are any non-standard respawning items/creatures. I can't think of anything off-hand, but it would be easy enough to script something like that, so there may be something of that nature I'm not thinking of. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 20:19, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

:::::I created a [[Oblivion:Respawning|new page]] and started to add links to it. I know the page is short, but it is to the point and fully covers the respawning process as I know it now. The problem with the information one other pages I have replaced so far was that it was incomplete and misleading. Some pages only mentions 3 days without mentioning the player had to stay out of the area. Some pages mentioned both, but did not mention it had to be 72 '''whole''' hours or in other words 3 '''whole''' days. I hope you can now see why other players and I had so much trouble with the Frostcrag Spire Alchemy Garden. We were mis-lead by the information on other pages that mention respawning.

:::::The concern I have to simply linking to Oblivion:Dungeons#Loot is that players would follow the link and wonder what respawning loot has to do with respawning ingredients or respawning NPC's. We should not assume they would make the connection. In fact it is more likely they will assume the link is a mistake and start searching for information specifically about respawning ingredients or NPC's.

:::::Slightly off the topic is I have notice many places where word variation is used. An example of word variation is: In order to get an area to respawn the character must leave the zone for 3 whole days. We may know that '''area''' and '''zone''' are the same thing, but other readers may assume that because the words are different, the words reffer to different things. Word variation may be great for fiction writing, but it is not a good idea for more technical writing.

:::::--[[User:Jxavier|Jxavier]] 05:09, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== Bureaucracy...with a capital B ==

I was just skimming over the list of RfAs after posting my non-RfA message on the [[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard|Administrator Noticeboard]], and I notice that there's no archived discussion of your becoming a Bureaucrat. Should there be, or was that an informal decision of some kind? I vaguely remember it happening maybe a year ago, but I don't really remember the circumstances under which it happened. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 20:34, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

:No, there was no RfB discussion. It was an unsolicited (and unexpected) change made by Daveh. At the time ([[Special:Log/rights|16 June 2009]], for those who didn't notice) I was somewhat focussed on the [[UESPWiki:MediaWiki 1.14 Upgrade|wiki upgrade]]. I later considered starting a retroactive RfB discussion (and even had some informal discussions with other admins), but in short I opted not to. Nevertheless, if the community would like to have a RfB, I'd be happy to start one, even now.

:In part because my Bureaucratship was never a community decision, I've consciously refrained from using any Bureaucrat powers ([[Special:ListGroupRights|those powers]] are essentially just batch-deleting pages and controlling rights other than Patrollership -- the other powers are also available to admins). I've also never particularly wanted to be a Bureaucrat -- I've previously stated and still feel that having Daveh make the final decision about Administrators is preferable. On the other hand, in cases where Daveh is unavailable a backup Bureaucrat may be useful.

:Also, the reason given by Daveh for the Bureaucratship ("technically already one") is entirely true. With my current level of server access, I can do tasks far beyond what is available to Bureaucrats (in Wikipedia terms, I have capabilities similar to a [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/System_administrators System administrator]). I can change the site's software; I can change settings (for example, giving admins the renameuser right); I have direct access to the site's database (allowing, for example, [[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 13#Deleted Logs|this action]]). In fact, at this point there are relatively few differences between what Daveh and I can do (access-wise, at least -- there are many tasks that only Daveh knows how to do, and other tasks that only Daveh has needed to do).

:[[UESPWiki:Archive/AN Request for Server Access|Request for Server Access]] was the discussion in which I first proposed being given server-level access. Since then, Daveh has gradually increased the extent of my server-level abilities (for that matter, the site's number of servers and complexity have also changed substantially). Those changes have generally been documented on [[UESPWiki:Upgrade History|Upgrade History]], although in most cases the community was probably unable to recognize the implications of those changes (in some cases, even Daveh and I didn't quite expect some implications!) If the community would find it informative, I could try to provide a more complete summary of my current server-level access -- although such a summary would probably be mostly technobabble to anyone without unix sysadmin knowledge ;) --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 22:14, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

::I must have been confusing the Bureaucrat rights with the server-level access rights. Given that it's a significant change in rights, I'd suggest linking that discussion on the AN page, just like the RfB and RfA requests. Apart from that, though, I personally see no reason to retroactively have an RfB—as you point out, the server-level access is far more encompassing than the Bureaucrat rights in any event. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 22:35, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Good point about the links -- and now done! --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 23:33, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

==page changes issue==
Twice now I have seen changes recorded in the history of articles or recent changes pages that do not appear on the current version of the article. I didn't think much of it until I made a post of a talk page and it did not appear, except in the html code when I pressed edit. Could you do me a favor and see if there are two comments (rather than one) on the Bjoulsae River talk page? I'm curious as to whether other people can read it but not me.[[User:Temple-Zero|Temple-Zero]] 17:05, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
:It's an obscure technical issue that results in out-of-date versions of pages sometimes being displayed. For now, Bjoulsae River should be fixed. I'd meaning to experiment with a larger-scale tweak to prevent this type of problem entirely a couple of weeks ago and forgot; I'll try looking into it some more right now. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:40, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== Unwatched watched pages ==

I notice that you're hunting for the cache bug and figured that while you were at it, maybe you'd like to hunt this one down as well: I've noticed before, and just had it reconfirmed by the Useful Enchantments page, that somehow, watched pages sometimes become unwatched in the sense that mail about page changes stops being delivered. The pages still show up in My Watchlist and are still marked as Watched on the page itself...but mail doesn't come through for any changes until you reset the page with an Unwatch/Watch. Oh and yes, I can confirm that they're not just getting caught in my spam blocker, since UESP is safe-listed and I go through my spam every day anyway.

Also, my general impression is that this ''seems'' to happen in waves. ''Something'' causes the semi-watched behaviour on large numbers of pages all at once (for example, I once lost tracking on most, but not all, of the various Admins' and Patrollers' talk pages, which I normally keep Watched). After that ''something'', any pages that you fix will remain fixed until the next ''something''. Whatever this ''something'' is, it doesn't seem to happen very often, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it happen to the same page more than once (hard to be positive, since it happens so rarely), so I'm guessing it's some kind of recurring event. Good luck hunting this one down! ;) —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 21:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:Any chance it's something as simple as that you haven't visited the page since it was last edited? As long as you haven't visited a page since it was edited (as long as that page is shown in bold face on your [[Special:Watchlist|watchlist]]), you won't get sent any more notification emails. In other words, assuming you've newly added a page to your watchlist, you'll get sent an email the first time it's edited -- and at the same time the page is flagged as unvisited (bold-face in watchlist). If you don't then visit the page, it could proceed to be edited 50 more times, and you wouldn't get any more emails. The unvisited flag is cleared when you view the page (of course, you have to be logged in), and then you'll be emailed again next time the page is edited.
:Other than that, there's nothing obvious in the code that would cause emails to stop being sent. And I'd probably need to know of a page that currently is being problematic (given that you're the most recent person to edit Useful Enchantments, I'm assuming anything happening with that page has already been reset) -- there are a few too many pages in your watchlist for me to have a chance of randomly picking a page for investigation. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 02:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
:Oh, and it seems that a page is only flagged as visited once you somehow see the most recent edit made to the page. Of course, viewing the page (e.g., following [[Ob:Useful Enchantments|this link]]) works. Or a diff showing the most recent edit, e.g. [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion%3AUseful_Enchantments&diff=473196&oldid=473100 this] or [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion%3AUseful_Enchantments&diff=473196&oldid=470089 with intermediate edits], works. But a [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion%3AUseful_Enchantments&diff=473100&oldid=470089 diff only with older edits] would not work. You can experiment yourself pretty easily to see what does it -- just keep an eye on what de-bolds the page on your watchlist or, alternatively, removes the green "changed since my last visit" text on the history page. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 02:38, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

::Hmmm...in this case, at least, it might just be that I hadn't visited it after my last e-mail about it, as I do remember it was bold in my list, but I never got an e-mail. Maybe I just deleted the last e-mail thinking I'd already seen the change but in fact I hadn't. I don't think it would've been the case previously, but I'll keep an eye on it. As for the size of my watchlist, I'll have you know I just removed a bunch! ;) These things happen when you've got auto-tracking turned on. I wish there were an easy way of telling when you last edited a page from the View and Edit Watchlist menu...that'd make pruning it a ''whole'' lot easier. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 03:10, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Not sure if it could be the case here, but I've noticed that happening to me, and realized I was accidentally checking my emails while logged out of the wiki, so the wiki didn't trigger that I'd "visited" the page. Just a thought. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 05:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

::::That's an interesting possibility I hadn't considered. It's entirely possible that I'd done that at some point for a whole slew of pages before noticing I wasn't logged in, which would definitely explain why it happened to a bunch of pages at once! We'll go with that explanation then, unless at some point the problem resurfaces when that's clearly not the case. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 06:14, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== TORolling ==

When you have a few minutes, I'd appreciate some feedback on [[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard#TORolling|my TORolling post]] on the Admin Noticeboard. I suspect there are very few users who are technically savvy enough to really provide feedback on it. Of the Admins, I think only you and Ratwar know enough to comment, and since you'd probably be the one who'd have to implement it (if possible), I think your feedback is going to matter the most of all. :) —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 19:18, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

== Undo? ==

Should [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Fingers_of_the_Mountain&diff=next&oldid=477483 this edit] be undone? It is sloppy, and the anonymous editor who made this edit continued on to make seven more similar edits on the same page. The edit is sloppy, but it could potentially have some worth. --[[User:Twentyfists|Twentyfists]] 00:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:I've taken care of it. [[User:Dlarsh|Dlarsh]]([[User_talk:Dlarsh|Talk]],[[Special:Contributions/Dlarsh|Contribs]],[[Special:Emailuser/Dlarsh|E-mail]]) 00:52, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

== i need some serious help ==

{{dm|Misdirection|i need some serious help|Oblivion talk}}

== Fractured ==

Dear I most certainly hope that those wrists get better soon!!! I know exactly how it feels to not get things done simply due to not having things function properly, and although it seems that your wrists are doing fine, I still hope you will take it easy and, well... just take it easy. ^^

I know, this seems a little out of the blue but at the same time not being able to do what you love can be sickining... hugs and warm feelings for you!!!!([[User:Ktsukami31|Cookies... lots and lots of cookies!!!]] 05:20, 26 October 2009 (UTC))

== curse of the consumed ==

Didn't know where to put this as I cant find info on it anywhere on the site, but my character has it as an ability with damage fatigue 5 pts. I've tried restore fatigue potions, cure disease, cure poison and praying at the local chapels and have no idea how to get rid of it. Any ideas what it is, how to get rid, and how to avoid it in future? I'm playing on ps3, so console commands are not an option, and I've checked previous saves to about 40 hours of gameplay and my character still has it that long ago, and I have no earlier saves.[[User:Masterlocksmith|Masterlocksmith]] 14:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:See [[Oblivion:Stendarr's_Mercy|here]]. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 23:53, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
::This just seems to be getting more odd... I completed that entire quest line months ago. I'm guessing it's just glitched so I'll try to cope. Thanks for the link Robin. [[User:Masterlocksmith|Masterlocksmith]] 19:16, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:::It probably is just a glitch, but it might not be a bad idea to go back and check that the quest is as complete as you think it is...just in case it's something silly, like you forgot to save afterwards or whatever. —[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]] ([[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] • [[Special:Emailuser/RobinHood70|E-mail]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobinHood70|Contribs]]) 09:18, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

== Plants Near ==
:''Moved from [[User:Nephele]] ([http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Nephele&diff=517741&oldid=517613 original revision])''

Re: the discussion at [[Oblivion:Fort Doublecross]], that is also relevant to the great majority of location articles, Eshe informs me you were the creator of the 'survey' information, including "The following '''plants''' can be found near the entrance:" sentence. It is my opinion (and it turns out, Eshe's also. S'drassa says it is not necessary) that the word for the area surveyed, e.g. 'cell' or '100 yard radius', or whatever it is, would be preferable to the word 'near' in that sentence. What, please, is the area surveyed, exactly, and do you have an opinion about changing the wording? [[User:Anarchangel|Anarchangel]] 13:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
:Sorry about putting that on your user page. Silly mistake. [[User:Anarchangel|Anarchangel]] 06:17, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

== Cleantable tag questions ==

I know you're not around at the moment but in case you're still checking your talk page I've found a couple of things with the <code><nowiki><cleantable></nowiki></code> tag that could either be a bug in the code, an intentional feature, or a typical rpeh cockup.

The problems appeared after I used cleantable to [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ANPC_Summary&diff=515841&oldid=515831 simplify] {{tl|NPC Summary}}. First off, we now have [[Special:WantedPages|wanted links]] to [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Morrowind:Aggression|Morrowind:Aggression]], [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Oblivion:Alarm|Oblivion:Alarm]], and other similar pages. It seems that cleantable is trimming out the necessary lines because they aren't used, but is still allowing the link to be passed to MediaWiki as a wanted link. Second, when I tried removing the namespace checks on the refid/baseid line, the line started showing on Morrowind pages even though neither param was being supplied. If I deleted the links on refid and baseid and just left them as plaintext, the line stopped appearing. In other words, cleantable seems to be getting confused when there's more than one sub-header with a link in one table row. Or something like that.

Anyway, neither problem is critical. I'm just letting you know in case you feel like looking at it. –[[User:Rpeh|rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 21:22, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not sure I fully understand how this works, so correct me if I'm wrong: Cleantable removes the header with the link to NAMESPACE:Aggression if <nowiki>{{{aggress|}}}</nowiki> is empty, right? If so, the wanted link is created because the wikicode is parsed before cleantable starts to clean up (it has to be, otherwise cleantable would see <nowiki>{{{aggress|}}}</nowiki>, which isn't empty, so it wouldn't work). If you use #if there are no wanted links because it doesn't evaluate dead branches. ([[Project:MetaTemplate#Conditional Expressions]] says otherwise, but that's no longer true starting from MW 1.12 and parserfunctions [http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/ParserFunctions/ParserFunctions.php?r1=27628&r2=27676 r27676]) -- [[User:Nx|'''''Nx''''']] / [[User talk:Nx|''talk'']] 22:01, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

:: I don't know enough about MW internals so I can't say exactly what's happening - I just wondered if there was something I should do differently, if there's something Neph can tweak, or if it's another post-upgrade annoyance. –[[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 22:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::: I don't think it can be fixed in cleantable (short of hacking the parser to only do template parameter expansion instead of full wikicode parsing - I don't think the parser can do that now). You could revert to the #if version, but then you get ugly code. -- [[User:Nx|'''''Nx''''']] / [[User talk:Nx|''talk'']] 22:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:::: I suspect not, but I thought I'd ask the expert :)
:::: It ''probably'' won't matter because the next stage of improvements for the NPC summary will move the game-specific stuff out into game-specific templates, that will need including with an if. Assuming that turns out to be a worthwhile thing to do, which it may not. –[[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 22:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

<</nowiki> tags fooling cleantable. Instead of <code><nowiki>| {{{refid|}}}</nowiki></code> use <code><nowiki>| style="font-size:85%;" | {{{refid|}}}</nowiki></code> and the same for baseid. ‒ [[User:Joram|'''Joram''']]↝[[User_talk:Joram|Talk]] 01:19, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

== Book Link ==

I've included a suggestion for the books on a talk page. This is what it says:

The same text is used for Daedric, Dwemer/Deep One, and Akaviri books. By the way, can someone include a symbolreader/translated version of the Bible of the Deep Ones; like a miniquest with Tarmeena who helps you decipher the mythic dawn commentaries?
[[User:Defender of Lainlyn|Defender of Lainlyn]] 02:11, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

== Another problem - #listsaved ==

At the risk of being seen to repeat actions with no expectation of success, I have another problem for you to look at should the mood take you.

The [[UESPWiki:MetaTemplate##listsaved|#listsaved]] function looks like it could be a great way to simplify list generation in an awful lot of cases - where books are found, which NPCs appear in certain regions, what locations are Ayleid ruins etc etc etc. The trouble is... I can't get it working. I've followed your example but doing something like your example of <code><nowiki>{{#listsaved:Place Link|placetype=Ayleid Ruin|namespace=Oblivion|description|maplink}}</nowiki></code> doesn't give links - just bold bits of text. I've tried various ways of using this potentially very useful command with no luck. Please can you fix the bug or let me know what I'm doing wrong? Thanks. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:04, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

== Another cleantable problem ==

If you ever come back I found another MetaTemplate bug. Compare these two tables in preview. I had to <nowiki><pre></nowiki> them, the second made a mess of the page.

<pre>{| class=wikitable
|test
|
{| class=hiddentable
|}
|-
|example||example
|}</pre>

<pre><cleantable>
{| class=wikitable
|test
|
{| class=hiddentable
|}
|-
|example||example
|}
</cleantable></pre>
‒ [[User:Joram|'''Joram''']]↝[[User_talk:Joram|Talk]] 01:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

== Savegame Files ==

Nephele, I'm asking around if there is a way to view a save's data (like the player's name, total health, horses stolen, etc.). Or, more simply, how can I view the variables/offsets shown here[http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Save_File_Format/NPC]. [[Special:Contributions/76.171.21.31|76.171.21.31]] 06:38, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
:The best way is with a standard hex editor and experience in using it, but if you don't have those you can use console commands or search google for a stat or character editor. My preferance would be the console commands, but they only work for PC. If you're playing on xbox you can get an editor, but on ps3 there's nothing to help you. --- [[User:Masterlocksmith|Masterlocksmith]] 08:41, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
::I'm on the PC. I don't really need an editor or something like that, I'd just like to know how I can simply view the stats; and take that data and use in something like a program. [[Special:Contributions/76.171.21.31|76.171.21.31]] 18:13, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

== Create spells higher than your level ==

{{dm|Glitches|Create spells higher than your level|Oblivion_talk}}

==Hey Nephele - I Apologise==
Last time I was on the Wikia, I gave you and Guildknight a hard time. I am extremely sorry,...If you would please let me stay on this wikia, I would GREATLY Appreciate it, but if you do not want me to be on the wikia anymore, due to my constant abuse to you and him, I definantly would understand and respect that decision, and would not hold a grudge if IP Banned again. Again, I am extremely sorry. I used this wikia pretty much at least once a week while banned, so if you can find it in your heart to forgive me, I would definantly appreciate that very much. I am much mroe mature than I once was, about 3 year's worth more mature. It will never happen again to anyone, I assure it. I realise now you were just cleaning up my constant mistakes without complaints really, and it must of been a real serious burden. So again, i'm sorry. (*P.S. I was the one with the accounts ending in 242621 and with the name 'Troy' signed up. I don't know if you remember me.) [[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 18:11, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Other Specialty Gear

2010-04-08T17:56:10Z

Roleplayer242621:

User talk:GuildKnight

2010-04-08T15:36:50Z

Roleplayer242621:

<center>[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GuildKnight&action=edit&section=new Talk2me] • [[Special:Emailuser/GuildKnight|Email]] • [[User:GuildKnight/Archive|Archives]] • [[User:GuildKnight/Treats|Treats]]</center>
----
----
{{TOCright}}
== Question ==

Can you help me out with setting the font color on the Notice template on my userpage ?--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 23:57, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
:Have a look at what I just did to it and see if that's what you were after. I changed both the font colour and the border width. The Notice template isn't currently set up to change font colour directly within the template, so you have to use another template, {{tl|FC}}, within it. ‒ [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] 01:54, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks !--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 18:24, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

==My Sincere Apologise==
Hey, just wanted to let you know, I have recently been unbanned, I am sorry about what I did,...Just wanted to clear my conscience bro. Really sorry, I acted like a complete and utter fool. I am really sorry about that.

[[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 15:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Roleplayer242621

2010-04-08T15:31:11Z

Roleplayer242621:

My bad on the last editation, it should have been marked a minor edit. Sorry! =).
[[User:Roleplayer242621|Roleplayer242621]] 15:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Roleplayer242621

2010-04-08T15:30:52Z

Roleplayer242621: Created page with 'My bad on the last editation, it should have been marked a minor edit. Sorry! =).'

My bad on the last editation, it should have been marked a minor edit. Sorry! =).

User:Roleplayer242621

2010-04-08T15:30:19Z

Roleplayer242621:

I will state now that in the past, I have been banned from this website. If need be, re-ban me, however I was approximently 11 years old, I am now 14 and much more mature than I once was, and I have a lot cooler temper to boot ;). I primarily roleplay on the Elder Scrolls IV - Oblivion, however I have a couple of primary accounts that I use for things other than RPing. I am ~extremely~ knowledgeable about Oblivion, the Shivering Isles, and the Knights of the Nine. I have the game for the Play Station Three Console, therefore I Cannot answer questions about modding if someone asks, I have no clue how to do it. That said, anything about Oblivion, SI, or KOTN, I can answer nearly everything. lastly, I genuinly apologise to Guildknight and Nephele for giving them a hard time when I was last on Wikia, I was rightfully banned, and if you so need it to be done, IP Ban me and no grudge will be held. Again, I am sorry.

User:Roleplayer242621

2010-04-08T15:29:42Z

Roleplayer242621: Created page with 'I will state now that in the past, I have been banned from this website. If need be, re-ban me, however I was approximently 11 years old, I am now 14 and much more mature than I ...'

I will state now that in the past, I have been banned from this website. If need be, re-ban me, however I was approximently 11 years old, I am now 14 and much more mature than I once was, and I have a lot coole temper to boot ;). I primarily roleplay on the Elder Scrolls IV - Oblivion, however I have a couple of primary accounts that I use for things other than RPing. I am ~extremely~ knowledgeable about Oblivion, the Shivering Isles, and the Knights of the Nine. I have the game for the Play Station Three Console, therefore I Cannot answer questions about modding if someone asks, I have no clue how to do it. That said, anything about Oblivion, SI, or KOTN, I can answer nearly everything. lastly, I genuinly apologise to Guildknight and Nephele for giving them a hard time when I was last on Wikia, I was rightfully banned, and if you so need it to be done, IP Ban me and no grudge will be held. Again, I am sorry.