UESPWiki - User Contributions [en]

Skyrim:Pantea's Flute

2011-12-04T04:59:57Z

Ninja Hinder: Added a note about Boethiah's Proving, fixed an error.

{{Trail|Quests}}
{{Quest Header
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Pantea Ateia|Pantea Ateia]]
|Reward=+1 to all Magic Skills
|Disp=
|Rep=
|Prev=[[Skyrim:Tending the Flames|Tending the Flames]]
|Conc=
|Next=
|Loc=[[Skyrim:Bards College|Bards College]], [[Skyrim:Hob's Fall Cave|Hob's Fall Cave]]
|Image=
|ImgDesc=
|description=Find a missing [[Skyrim:Items#Pantea's Flute|flute]] for [[Skyrim:Pantea Ateia|Pantea]].
|ID=BardsCollegeFlute
|Icon=
}}

==Quick Walkthrough==
# Talk to [[Skyrim:Pantea Ateia|Pantea]] at the Bards College.
# Travel to [[Skyrim:Hob's Fall Cave|Hob's Fall Cave]] and find her missing [[Skyrim:Items#Pantea's Flute|flute]].
# Return to Pantea for your reward.

==Detailed Walkthrough==
===Go get my Flute!===
When the Fire Festival marks the end of the [[Skyrim:Tending the Flames|Tending the Flames]] quest, talking to Pantea will make her say: "That damn fool! I should wring her neck!" When asked to elaborate she will explain about a foolish student, [[Skyrim:Larina|Larina]], who stole Pantea’s Flute and sold it to a bunch of [[Skyrim:Necromancer|Necromancers]]. Pantea is understandably upset as the Flute has been passed down through seventeen generations, so she asks you to retrieve it for her – right away.

===Hob's Fall Cave===
A mapmarker will now point you towards [[Skyrim:Hob's Fall Cave|Hob's Fall Cave]], a Necromancer Den east of [[Skyrim:Frostflow Lighthouse|Frostflow Lighthouse]] in the [[Skyrim:Winterhold|Winterhold]] region. While the cave itself seems straightforward, it has quite a few secrets worth exploring, so enter and take a look around. The ledge overlooking the first room is where you will return after a successful trek, so locate the icy path to the left and make your way through the tunnels and fight the hostile Necromancers guarding the desk with a [[Skyrim:Soul Gem|soul gem]] and a treasure chest. Proceed forward until you reach a suspension bridge. Look over the edge and notice the Necromancer camp deep down below, with an [[Skyrim:Alchemy Lab|Alchemy Lab]] and several bedrolls. Use the ledges to jump down for a surprise attack, then loot the camp for a rare [[Skyrim:Unusual Gem|Unusual Gem]] and the [[Skyrim:Restoration|Restoration]] skill book ''[[Skyrim:The Exodus|The Exodus]]''.

===Find the Flute===
Head back up and use the path to get back on track then fight the Necromancers guarding the next room. Examine another Arcane Enchanter for a copy of the [[Skyrim:Enchanting|Enchanting]] skill book ''[[Skyrim:Enchanter's Primer|Enchanter's Primer]]'', then activate the pull chain and either dodge or destroy the [[Skyrim:Traps#Spellcaster_Trap|Spellcaster Traps]]. The final room is guarded by three Necromancers and contains the chest with the Flute, a [[Skyrim:Black Soul Gem|black soul gem]], and a locked cage with a deceased Redguard. Jump down from the ledge and exit the cave the way you came.

Back in the Bards College, Pantea will be overwhelmed with joy and will teach you a few tricks she learned while playing for the Winterhold Wizards, specifically a one-point boost to all your Magic skills.

==Notes==
* There is a copy of [[Skyrim:Boethiah's Proving|Boethiah's Proving]] on a bookshelf in the back of the room
with the Arcane Enchanter. This book starts the [[Skyrim:Boethiah's Calling|Boethiah's Calling]] Quest (Level 30 required).

==Bugs==
* {{Bug|After you turn in the quest, the flute will remain in your inventory, still marked as a quest item.
**{{Pc22}} PC players can remove the quest item using the Console and the following console code: <code>Player.removeitem 000DABA7 1</code>}}
* {{Bug|The flute can be found before the quest is given, meaning the marker to turn the quest in never appears.|vn=1}}
**{{Pc22}} PC players can use this console command to advance the quest: <code>setstage bardscollegeflute 40</code>

==Quest Stages==
{{Journal Entries
|0||
|15||
|20||{{Quest Comment|Objective is assigned}}: Find Pantea's Flute
|40||{{Quest Comment|Objective is assigned}}: Return Pantea's Flute
|200|Yes|
}}
{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}
*test
{{Stub|Quest}}

Skyrim:Pantea's Flute

2011-12-04T04:40:36Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Hob's Fall Cave */ The Soul Gem is levelled.

{{Trail|Quests}}
{{Quest Header
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Pantea Ateia|Pantea Ateia]]
|Reward=+1 to all Magic Skills
|Disp=
|Rep=
|Prev=[[Skyrim:Tending the Flames|Tending the Flames]]
|Conc=
|Next=
|Loc=[[Skyrim:Bards College|Bards College]], [[Skyrim:Hob's Fall Cave|Hob's Fall Cave]]
|Image=
|ImgDesc=
|description=Find a missing [[Skyrim:Items#Pantea's Flute|flute]] for [[Skyrim:Pantea Ateia|Pantea]].
|ID=BardsCollegeFlute
|Icon=
}}

==Quick Walkthrough==
# Talk to [[Skyrim:Pantea Ateia|Pantea]] at the Bards College.
# Travel to [[Skyrim:Hob's Fall Cave|Hob's Fall Cave]] and find her missing [[Skyrim:Items#Pantea's Flute|flute]].
# Return to Pantea for your reward.

==Detailed Walkthrough==
===Go get my Flute!===
When the Fire Festival marks the end of the [[Skyrim:Tending the Flames|Tending the Flames]] quest, talking to Pantea will make her say: "That damn fool! I should wring her neck!" When asked to elaborate she will explain about a foolish student, [[Skyrim:Larina|Larina]], who stole Pantea’s Flute and sold it to a bunch of [[Skyrim:Necromancer|Necromancers]]. Pantea is understandably upset as the Flute has been passed down through seventeen generations, so she asks you to retrieve it for her – right away.

===Hob's Fall Cave===
A mapmarker will now point you towards [[Skyrim:Hob's Fall Cave|Hob's Fall Cave]], a Necromancer Den east of [[Skyrim:Frostflow Lighthouse|Frostflow Lighthouse]] in the [[Skyrim:Winterhold|Winterhold]] region. While the cave itself seems straightforward, it has quite a few secrets worth exploring, so enter and take a look around. The ledge overlooking the first room is where you will return after a successful trek, so locate the icy path to the left and make your way through the tunnels and fight the hostile Necromancers guarding the desk with a [[Skyrim:Soul Gem|soul gem]] and a treasure chest. Proceed forward until you reach a suspension bridge. Look over the edge and notice the Necromancer camp deep down below, with an [[Skyrim:Arcane Enchanter|Arcane Enchanter]] and several bedrolls. Use the ledges to jump down for a surprise attack, then loot the camp for a rare [[Skyrim:Unusual Gem|Unusual Gem]] and the [[Skyrim:Restoration|Restoration]] skill book ''[[Skyrim:The Exodus|The Exodus]]''.

===Find the Flute===
Head back up and use the path to get back on track then fight the Necromancers guarding the next room. Examine another Arcane Enchanter for a copy of the [[Skyrim:Enchanting|Enchanting]] skill book ''[[Skyrim:Enchanter's Primer|Enchanter's Primer]]'', then activate the pull chain and either dodge or destroy the [[Skyrim:Traps#Spellcaster_Trap|Spellcaster Traps]]. The final room is guarded by three Necromancers and contains the chest with the Flute, a [[Skyrim:Black Soul Gem|black soul gem]], and a locked cage with a deceased Redguard. Jump down from the ledge and exit the cave the way you came.

Back in the Bards College, Pantea will be overwhelmed with joy and will teach you a few tricks she learned while playing for the Winterhold Wizards, specifically a one-point boost to all your Magic skills.

==Bugs==
* {{Bug|After you turn in the quest, the flute will remain in your inventory, still marked as a quest item.
**{{Pc22}} PC players can remove the quest item using the Console and the following console code: <code>Player.removeitem 000DABA7 1</code>}}
* {{Bug|The flute can be found before the quest is given, meaning the marker to turn the quest in never appears.|vn=1}}
**{{Pc22}} PC players can use this console command to advance the quest: <code>setstage bardscollegeflute 40</code>

==Quest Stages==
{{Journal Entries
|0||
|15||
|20||{{Quest Comment|Objective is assigned}}: Find Pantea's Flute
|40||{{Quest Comment|Objective is assigned}}: Return Pantea's Flute
|200|Yes|
}}
{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}
*test
{{Stub|Quest}}

User:Ninja Hinder

2011-12-04T04:20:59Z

Ninja Hinder: Added a skyrim userbox

{| style="float:right; margin-right:0;" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=1 rules=none
|{{User XBox}}
|-
|{{User Male}}
|-
|{{User Writer}}
|-
|{{Userbox|#000000|#000000|[[Image:Image-Ninja Crouching.jpg|45px]]|info-fc=#FF0000|This user is a NINJA!}}
|-
|{{User IRC}}
|-
|{{User American}}
|-
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2008|month=8|day=14}}
|-
|{{Userbox|#00FF66|#FFFFFF|1250|This user has unlocked all achievements, which means he has mastered all guilds.}}
|-
|{{User Birthsign|Thief}}
|-
|{{User Race|Breton}}
|-
|{{User Believer}}
|-
|{{Userbox-2|black|#FF0000|[[File:MW Weapons Longswords.jpg|65px]]|This user prefers [[Morrowind:Long Blades|long blades.]]|info-fc=blue|[[Image:BladeTitle.gif|32px]]}}
|-
|{{User Loremaster}}
|-
|{{User Left Handed}}
|-
|{{User NoPatroller}}
|-
|{{User Skyrim}}
|}

'''I am Ninja Hinder, the one who asks many questions.'''

Hello folks, I am Ninja Hinder. I am amazingly young to be a wiki editor. I call myself the one who asks many questions because I do. Questions are how you learn. One day in August '08 I decided, hey, why not edit this place. (I had been visiting the site for help and whatnot for a few months before that.) I made myself a profile, and then... Did nothing. I really only focused on bettering my user page for my first year or so here. In that time I took a special interest in fanfiction and thus you can find them all below, on my bookshelf. In September after I came back from my Summer hiatus things had changed. I've been patrolling and improving pages by adding links to them and making minor edits since then. I still have fanfictions in the works, just not for Oblivion at the moment. You can find me in the IRC chatroom as Ninja_Hinder. I'll answer any question you throw at me to the best of my abilities. Also, another way to contact me is my talk page, obviously. I don't mind getting new messages from others.

{|style="float:middle; background-color: white; border:solid 3px Gray"
! style="background-color: White" colspan=2 align="center"|'''[[Image:OblivionIcon.gif]]
|-
|<center>'''My Bookshelf'''
|-
|• [[User:Ninja Hinder/My story|Whodunit? twist]]
|-
|• [[User:Ninja Hinder/Agent Phintias:Infiltration.|Agent Phintias:Infiltration]]
|-
|• [[User:Ninja Hinder/Alperion's Redemption|Alperion's Redemption]]
|-
|• [[User:Ninja Hinder/DotON part 1|Diary of the Outcast Ninja part 1]]
|-
|• [[User:Ninja Hinder/DotON part 1|Diary of the Outcast Ninja part 1]]
|-
|• [[User:Ninja Hinder/DotON part 2|Diary of the Outcast Ninja part 2]]
|-
|• [[User:Ninja Hinder/Blade Brothers|Blade Brothers, (Part 1.)]]
|-
|}
(Note that all of these save for the bottom one were written by a 12 year old.)

=== My current projects ===
*Improve the roleplaying section dramatically. Perhaps one day enough that the tag that says the work may not be at UESP's standard can be removed.
**Add links where I can.
**Add proper ideas and erase ones that are duplicates/don't make sense.
*Write more fanfiction.
*Become a patroller (More of a goal than a project).

=== My finished projects ===
Make my user page better.
Become a semi-respected member.
Learn to edit really well.
Other than this, I have no specific projects. I simply add links and make minor edits where I should.

=== My Sandboxes ===

If you should want to visit any of these. The Character and Roleplaying ones could be entertaining.

[[User:Ninja Hinder/My rpSandbox|Roleplaying Sandbox]]. A sandbox where I store my roleplaying ideas, and other's ideas that I like.

[[User:Ninja Hinder/My ChSandbox|Character Sandbox.]] This has all of my characters. A lot of info for each one.

[[user:Ninja Hinder/My sandbox|Fanfic sandbox]]. This one has all of the things I need on it, such as character notes and a bar I miraculously made that lets me greet new members.

Skyrim:Companions

2011-12-04T04:07:49Z

Ninja Hinder: Added a link. P.S. I'm back!

{{Trail|Factions}}
{{Pre-Release}}
'''The Companions''' are a collective group of mercenaries, soldiers and fighters who take on private and public contracts for the people of Skyrim, and who purportedly carry on the tradition of the Five Hundred Companions of {{Lore Link|Ysgramor}}. As Skyrim has no representation of Tamriel's [[Lore:Fighters Guild|Fighters Guild]], this organization takes their place and offers similar quest types as seen in previous installments of the Elder Scrolls. They are based in the city of [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]], within the mead hall [[Skyrim: Jorrvaskr|Jorrvaskr]].

== Joining ==
*You may apply at their guild hall Jorrvaskr in Whiterun.

==Benefits==
*Access to [[Skyrim:Jorrvaskr|Jorrvaskr]] (Technically you can enter without being a member)
*Master level trainers in Smithing, Heavy Armor, and Two Handed (Eorlund, Farkas, & Vilkas)
*Expert level trainers in One Handed, Block & Archery (Athis, Njada Stonearm & Aela the Huntress)
*The ability to become a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|Werewolf]]
*Improve the [[Skyrim:Skyforge|Skyforge]] to make Ancient Nord armor and Nordic Hero weaponry.
*Several members become possible followers after the quest line is completed.
*Followers who are also trainers give "free" training (train and then trade the gold back)
*Shield of Ysgramor and Wuuthrad

== Notes ==
*Within the Companions exists [[Skyrim:the Circle|the Circle]], an inner sub-faction of the highest and most prominent members, all of whom are [[Skyrim:Werewolf|Werewolves]].

== Main Quests ==

*{{Quest Link|Take Up Arms}}
*{{Quest Link|Proving Honor}}
*{{Quest Link|The Silver Hand}}
*{{Quest Link|Blood's Honor}}
*{{Quest Link|Purity of Revenge}}
*{{Quest Link|Glory of the Dead}}

== Radiant Quests==
''These quests are available after completing [[Skyrim:Take Up Arms|Take Up Arms]]''
*{{Quest Link|Animal Extermination (A)}} (Repeatable)
*{{Quest Link|Animal Extermination (B)}} (Repeatable)
*{{Quest Link|Hired Muscle}} (Repeatable)
*{{Quest Link|Trouble in Skyrim}} (Repeatable)
*{{Quest Link|Family Heirloom}} (Repeatable)
*{{Quest Link|Escaped Criminal}} (Repeatable)
*{{Quest Link|Rescue Mission}} (Repeatable)
''These quests are available after completing [[Skyrim:The Silver Hand|The Silver Hand]].''
*{{Quest Link|Striking the Heart}}
*{{Quest Link|Stealing Plans}}
*{{Quest Link|Retrieval}}
''These quests are available after completing [[Skyrim:Glory of the Dead|Glory of the Dead]].''
*{{Quest Link|Totems of Hircine}} (Completable 3 Times)
*{{Quest Link|Purity}}
''This quest is available after completing both Glory of the Dead and [[Skyrim:A Blade in the Dark|A Blade in the Dark]].''
*{{Quest Link|Dragon Seekers}}

==People==
{|
|-
!
!
!
|- valign="top"
|style="padding:0em 0.5em 0em 0.5em"|
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
|-
!The Circle
|-
|
;[[Skyrim:Kodlak Whitemane|Kodlak Whitemane]] (Harbinger)
;[[Skyrim:Aela the Huntress|Aela the Huntress]]
;[[Skyrim:Farkas|Farkas]]
;[[Skyrim:Skjor|Skjor]]
;[[Skyrim:Vilkas|Vilkas]]
|}
|style="padding:0em 0.5em 0em 0.5em"|
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
|-
!Members
|-
|
;[[Skyrim:Athis|Athis]]
;[[Skyrim:Njada Stonearm|Njada Stonearm]]
;[[Skyrim:Ria|Ria]]
;[[Skyrim:Torvar|Torvar]]
;[[Skyrim:Vignar Gray-Mane|Vignar Gray-Mane]]
|}
|style="padding:0em 0.5em 0em 0.5em"|
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
|-
!Blacksmith
|-
|
;[[Skyrim:Eorlund_Gray-Mane|Eorlund Gray-Mane]] {{Navimg|image=Repairicon_small.png|link=Skyrim:Blacksmiths|title=Blacksmith}}
|-
!Servants
|-
|
;[[Skyrim:Brill|Brill]]
;[[Skyrim:Tilma the Haggard|Tilma the Haggard]]
|}
|}

== Achievements ==
[[Skyrim:Achievements|Achievements]] related to the Companions are:
* [[File:SR-achievement-Take Up Arms.jpg|30px]] -- '''Take Up Arms ''' Join the Companions
* [[File:SR-achievement-Blood Oath.jpg|30px]] -- '''Blood Oath ''' Become a member of [[Skyrim:The Circle|the Circle]]
* [[File:SR-achievement-Glory of the Dead.jpg|30px]] -- '''Glory of the Dead ''' Complete [[Skyrim:Glory of the Dead|Glory of the Dead]]

{{Skyrim}}

UESPWiki:Community Portal/Subjective Content

2010-09-12T22:47:57Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Votes */ Voted

__TOC__
{{Showhide/Start|Initial Discussion}}
I think it is about time we discuss what the UESP is about and update our policy to 2010. Let’s face it: the amount of edits made to opinion-based pages are getting out of hand, the patrollers (including me) have given up on them, non-patrollers are struggling trying to figure out what to do with the load of bad ideas that pop up on the Roleplaying/Useful-pages and the Recent Changes page are about to explode with un-patrolled edits. Patrollers and editors trying to do useful work are frustrated with the lack of control and it affects their output in a negative way, and, worst-case scenario, they loose interest in contributing to the site. Let’s, for a minute, ignore the equally tremendous amount of uneven questions made to the talk pages all over the wiki, and focus on the opinion-based content. Let’s focus on three words:

: '''Must-have, Useful and Roleplaying.'''

These pages exist as part of the wiki’s content and have nothing to do with talk pages. The pages are forum-like, heavy-edited pages that we can’t control, nor do we really want to. I find it ironic and contradictive that we revert talk page edits with the edit summary “this is not a forum” while we allow these pages to grow and grow, making it nearly impossible to know what is right or wrong – for editors and patrollers alike. I have lost count of the complaints I have received on the IRC about these pages and now it seems that we are simply starting to ignore the fact that they exist. Neph tried to come up with a solution, AlbinoOrc tried to follow it up, but I think it is obvious that nobody wants to touch these pages. I will not attempt to come up with a solution now, I just want opinions: What do you think about these pages? Are they useful? Are they a must-have? Have you ever heard of a gamer thinking: “Man, I can’t solve this quest – I think I’ll find a useful spell to help me out.”? Editors, patrollers and admins – we need to figure this out now. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 10:11, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

: I agree that the wiki is for information, facts, tips and walkthroughs, but some of the users obviously enjoy this content, so outright deleting it would not help. Perhaps a specific namespace would satisfy everyone, to have the information away from general statistics, walkthroughs, locations, odd facts and the likes. I know several other wikis that do this – even Wikipedia has Essay: for opinion pieces. However, UESP does have the virtue of owning a forum and a blog, so perhaps the opinion pieces could be directed there. [[User talk:The Ashborn|''Proudly'']] [[Lore:Dunmer|Ashborn-]] [[Special:Contributions/The Ashborn|[verify]]] 10:44, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:: I agree with Krusty. We already have suggestions for the mods page (let each user list mods in their userspace and use the page as a hub) and Roleplaying (pretty much the same). That means we can start using Userspace patrollers and let them keep edits under control. The Useful Spells page contains ''some'' useful spells, and it's usually kept pretty much under control. Timenn cleaned it up a while back and he and I don't let it get too far out of control, although it's difficult when people come on with an agenda to push (those useless chain spells, for instance). The Useful Potions page tends to be pretty static so I don't think it's a problem. Useful Enchantments gets some real dross, and I note that somebody has added another useless set of swords with far too much detail (and I just deleted them).

:: There are a few things that make the "Useful" series of pages worth keeping, but the others should be cleaned up along the lines already discussed. I'll make a start on the Mods page but I never quite understood the roleplaying plan. Maybe Nephele can explain more. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:48, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::: I have a few suggestions. I make a RP forum thread, post every section as a comment to this thread. before that starts we protect the thing and take out a ton of the bad/useless ideas. then once I'm done we redirect to the forum thread. Or we "trim" it and lock it and possibly add a proposed page in the user namespace and add some more Userspace Patrollers than just me.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette]][[User:Corevette789|789]] 16:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:::: The Useful Spells page, to me, was never useful because 1.) Only some of my characters had access to spellmaking alters, and 2.) It was too much of a hastle, when you could whip up your own, a spell only you consider "Useful". Must-Have mods are different for everyone, of course. And I'll say again, I really want to start cleaning up the Roleplaying pages. I actually may made a sandbox of one section... an example of how it should look like. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 01:31, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: I couldn't help myself, so I went ahead and made [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 2|this]]. I hope it will be the example page for all roleplaying pages. I might have gone a little delete happy, but the final result looks much better. It copies [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Fighter or Warrior|the Fighter or Warrior section]]. Compare the two and you'll need to admit that my version does look neater, at least. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 03:15, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::: Third post in a row, I'm starting to think I'm talking to myself... anyways, I'd like confirmation to replace [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Fighter or Warrior|this article]] with [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 2|this one]]. It's true, I may have deleted a "bit" too many entries, but I do have a reason for all of them. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 04:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Based on Matt’s cleanup-project in his Sandbox and the somewhat expected amount of replies (given that we are in the middle of the summer holidays), I have a proposal for some changes that could make life at ton easier on all of us – without deleting content and upsetting a lot of people who have spend hours and hours improving the pages. This solution could be temporary, just to see how it goes – but I believe it would be a whole lot better than the current situation and, especially, better than all the Quality Tags about heavy-edited articles and so on. My idea is:
* We decide that we have had enough excellent ideas on the above mentioned pages, which basically boils down to opinion-based content-pages like Roleplaying, Useful-pages, Must-have pages and Idea-pages.
* We clean up what we have. Rpeh’s reply indicates that he is willing to do a bit of cleanup and Matt’s sandbox looks good. If we all participate, then this should be a walkover.
* We lock ands protect all opinion-based content. No more edits and ideas on these pages. We create a new tag, which points creative editors to:
* Proposed-pages for each page, basically the same as the [[Oblivion:Glitches/Proposed|Oblivion:Glitches/Proposed]] page – like Roleplaying/Proposed (all categories under ONE roof), Useful Spells/Proposed ect. This will give us some much-needed peace and quiet, especially in the Roleplaying section, where all ideas will turn up on one page only. No edits can be done to the main pages, only to the Proposed-pages, which mean the community can discuss whether or not the ideas are good before they are added to the main pages – and we can avoid the chaos we are facing now.

It is pretty simple and I believe it could improve the current situation a lot. Sure, the Proposed-pages will experience a whole lot of traffic, but the traffic will be much more submissive, and make editors think twice before adding a half-baked idea. That last point alone would be worth all the effort. I’m obviously keen on the idea, so let’s hear it – yay or nay? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 08:08, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

: I'm not sure how well using a /Proposed page will help with the problems. With the Glitches page, it just means that the /Proposed page fills up until [[User:RobinHood70|someone]] decides to clean it up, and I have a bad feeling that a Roleplaying/Proposed page would be even worse. I think the Useful pages are... just about... good enough to keep as they are, although I wouldn't object to a /Proposed page for these. The Must Have Mods page proposal will Userfy most content so there shouldn't be a problem.

: The bigger problem is that if you're talking about semi-protection then it won't stop a lot of the problem anyway. I'd say that a fairly high amount of content added to these pages comes from users who are auto-confirmed, so semi-protection won't stop them bypassing the /Proposed page. If you're talking about full protection, then only admins will be able to integrate the content. It might be worth going back and trying to work out how effective the scheme would have been before we spend a lot of time implementing it. I'll go ahead with the Mods changes once I get around to writing up my own list. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:48, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

::(e/c) I'm all for adding some restrictions to the more liberal content pages, but we must keep in mind that not all of them are really bad. When I started cleaning up Oblivion:Useful Spells I expected that only a few marginally useful spells would remain. This was not the case, some clever ideas were buried under the big pile of entries. I disagree with the assessment that no editor is going to search for useful spells. The amount of questions asked by various editors on these matters should tell otherwise. Maintaining a few articles with general tips instead of walkthrough specific info should not be a problem. It's all about keeping the lid on the barrel, it should not get out of hand (e.g. Roleplaying).

::[[Oblivion:Glitches/Proposed]] should point out the failure of an attempt to create an efficient process of proposal->acceptance->implementation; new proposals are rarely reviewed and linger on for years. It's very easy to propose a new idea, the difficulty lies in the refinement of it. So I'd say to only accept entries if people have a refined idea they are willing to immediately add to the article, without much further need of reviewing. If the added content fails to meet the quality standards, other editors should be free to remove it. If the editor finds the idea truely interesting, but not refined enough, he/she can always move it to the talk page. If an editor has a clever suggestion, but not the ability to write a full section on it, he/she should post something on the talk page. The trick on getting other editors to review it is to make your proposal interesting enough that other editors feel inclined to jump in, not because they have to, but because they are intrigued.

::It's hard to overhaul all said articles with new content criteria. I think it's mostly a lesson we should learn for when new articles like these are created (for TES V, for example). I would support making the Roleplaying articles static though, but I think we can maintain the rest. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 10:55, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

::: (e/c) (response to rpeh's post) I meant full protection, of course. While I agree that the Must-have and Useful-pages are less of a problem, this could work with the RP pages and simply lessen the amount of edits made to the various subcategories. I, for one, would gladly do the extra effort and add the approved ideas from a Proposed/Roleplaying-page to the relevant content page, and I'm pretty sure the other admins will do it as well. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 10:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: I agree with Krusty's idea, the only problem I can think would happen is the shock that no one can edit the roleplaying pages anymore, which some people would certainly be against. But it would make them much less of an eyesore. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 13:46, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

::::: Nevermind the shock. If we simply deleted the whole lot, then people would be shocked. This solution keeps all the existing information on the pages, it just makes sure that we avoid edits [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Roleplaying/Ruler&curid=66303&diff=591108&oldid=590399&rcid=612400 like] [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Roleplaying/Fighter_or_Warrior&curid=65795&diff=591109&oldid=590098&rcid=612401 this]. Also, based on the above opinions, I would like to limit my suggestion to the Roleplaying pages only - for now. Both Timenn and rpeh have a point regarding the Useful-pages, so let us stick to RP and test the technique. But before we start, it would be nice with some more opinions, especially because we are about to fully protect a lot of pages + it would be great if we could find some volunteers to clean up the existing pages one by one. Matt? ;) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 14:12, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I think I could help... :) When it's ready to start, I'd guess I'd make more sandboxes, then. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 15:08, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::: That's an awesome proposal, Krusty, though I do have reservations about how effective the /Proposed page is likely to be, mainly that it won't be at all. However, even if the /Proposed is a mess in the end, it is only one page as opposed to the quite large amount of Roleplaying pages there are. And as for cleaning up the current RP pages, I may be willing to lend a hand. --[[User:Darkle|Darkle]] ~ [[User talk:Darkle|Talk]] 16:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

{{od}}I think the best solution for "must-have" and "roleplaying" articles is to userfy them all. They're not really wiki-type material. I'd say the same about "useful" articles, but if there are established and talented editors that think they're worth maintaining as-is, then I'll leave 'em to them. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 19:13, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: I hope that means they still need to be cleaned up... I've been working on that for a couple of days. If they were to be userfy-ed, I'd still think it would be best to protect them.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 20:02, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

::Cleanup is always a good thing. I worked on the Roleplaying articles for several months (you should've seen 'em when there were over a hundred subpages), but there's really no real reason to host 'em on the wiki; this seems to be a reasonable compromise. I also don't see any reason the userfied pages would need to be edited. The way I understood it, the roleplaying ideas would be treated like the Fanfictions; a roleplaying article would be in a user's userspace, so that user is the one that edits it. I don't fully understand the way they would be linked within the wiki, but I would think that the central page that lists the users' roleplaying articles would be at least semi-protected to prevent it being flooded and overwhelmed. In fact, I'd be perfectly fine with a guideline of sorts saying that we're not going to delete what's already here, but we're also not going to host any new roleplaying articles. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 20:43, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

:::I vaugely remember the old Rp pages, like ''Santa Claus'' and ''Mr. Nice Guy''. Speaking of the articles, in the final cleanup I'd like for the ''Collecter'' page and the ''Scientist'' page to be merged into the Jobs and Mage pages, since they both are so small right now. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 22:44, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

::::I'm getting confused now... are we userfying the stuff (in which case where does it go) or cleaning up (and leaving where it is???)

::::What exactly is being proposed? [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 23:47, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

::::: I still like Krusty's idea. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 23:50, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

:::::: I like the ''intent'' behind Krusty's idea, but I don't like the idea of content pages that only admins can edit. I'm struggling to think of cases where this has happened before even for a few minutes - usually, the solution was to block the person or people making disruptive edits but leave the pages open to everybody else.

:::::: I think we've arrived at a set of resolutions: Useful * pages - we can keep in check. Sometimes it might take a couple of days, but by and large useless stuff doesn't last for long. Must Have Mods will be userfied except for the unofficial patches. Roleplaying... I'm still not sure how that one works. Userfy, sure... but what goes where? [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

{{od}}Regarding the roelplaying articles, this is the way I understood it;

The individual subpages (or sections of the subpages; I wasn't too clear on this part of it) would be put up for "adoption". Then editors would be able to "adopt" the article, move it to their own userspace (something like "User:GK/Roleplaying/Farmer"), and edit or adjust as they saw fit. After a pre-determined amount of time, any articles that weren't adopted we would assume weren't really used by anyone, since no one cared enough about them to adopt them. At that point, we'd delete any that users hadn't moved into their own userspace.

This way, if anyone was particularly attached to a specific roleplay, they'd have the opportunity to ensure it wouldn't be deleted. I'm not sure what Neph's proposal was for the policy after this was done, but I'd love to see a policy that we would not host any more Roleplaying articles. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 02:33, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:: I've already taken five pages, plus the main one. ( [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/User:Arch-Mage_Matt/Sandbox_4 example]) It's not that I like a specific one (Actually, the exact opposite...) but I took them under the impression that they would be kept in the main space. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 03:06, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

::: Matt, no matter what we end up with, it is brilliant to get the pages cleaned up and for once get it systematized. I still don't understand the Userfying suggestion to handling the RP pages (and I have a feeling we can discuss it for several years), but my vote is still on a new Roleplaying/Proposed page and a firm lock on all regular RP pages (after Matt's cleanup, of course). If the system turns out to have its flaws, or only works partially, I'm still 100% positive it is a better solution until we can figure out Neph's suggestion. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 14:49, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: I finished, but it may need some minor cleanup. And you might notice that the ''Ruler'' page is not included -- simply because almost every section in it is mod, or pc, dependant. Count, Ayleid Ruler, Emporer, everything needs the console, or mods. Nothing on that page can an Xbox user do fully. That's why I'd like it to be deleted in the final ... whatever we're doing. I also merged the Merchant and Collecter into the jobs page, and the Scientist into the mage page. And here's a list of all of them: [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 2|One, Fighter]], [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 3|Two, Wilderness Dweller]], [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 4|Three, Main Page]], [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 5|Four, Mage]], [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 6|Five, Lifestyles]], [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 7|Six, Religious Enthusiast]], [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 8|Seven, Assassin]], [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 9|Eight, Jobs]], [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 10|Nine, Guards]], and [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox 11|Ten, the Criminal page]]. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

{{od}} Good work, Matt! Now we just need a consensus. Rpeh wrote a good list describing the future of the Must-Have and Useful-pages:
:* ''Useful pages - we can keep in check. Sometimes it might take a couple of days, but by and large useless stuff doesn't last for long.''
:* ''Must Have Mods will be userfied except for the unofficial patches.'' The post below shows how this works and it looks good - people have already started implementing favorite mods in their own userspace, so we will just have to wait and see how things turn out.
Now, for the Roleplaying pages. Admitted, I haven't read through all Matt's changes yet, but the pages looks good, some pages have been merged with others, and they appear orginized. Now, [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Roleplaying/Religious_Enthusiast&curid=65792&diff=592404&oldid=589654 this] edit is from today and shows exactly why I proposed the full protection in the first place. We can discuss and try to figure out Neph's intentions for a long time, but until Neph herself shows up with the full explanation, we might as well give Matt the permission to add his changes to the pages. Whether or not we are going to protect them (for now) is up for discussion. I'm still for it, obviously, but I sense a few "opposes" out there, and it would be great to reach consensus now. Mind you, we do not necessarily lock them forever, merely as an attempt to control the heavy-edited pages. Matt, you should probably wait for some responses before launching your changes. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 07:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: I still don't like the idea of fully-protecting content, but I hate edits like that one even less. I suppose using this as a stopgap is fair enough. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 09:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:: I do think it's a good idea, because several confirmed users still edit the space. I think everyone's new ideas should go through a trial before it's put on the page. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 20:40, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

::: No, that's the point. '''Full''' protection means that only admins can edit it. While I think that's fine for vital pages and for various other pages that users can't possibly improve (eg, Financial information), I don't like it for content. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 22:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:::: You have a point. But given the recent edit of content that was going to be removed if it goes by my pages - I'd like to have something happen, at least within the next couple of days. It'd be nice to have people stop wasting their efforts on the less-than-quality pages that they are now. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 04:58, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

::::: Fair enough, Matt. I think the Wiki is a tiny bit quiet because of the summer and I understand why you want to launch your work as soon as possible. However, given the controversy of the proposal we need some sort of consensus or, at least, some more opinions from the patrollers and admins. I'll try to get in touch with everybody over the weekend. In the meantime, please keep an eye on the changes made to the RP pages, just to make sure they don't clash with your work and the upcoming overhaul. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 12:14, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

:::::: I'm almost the opposite of what you said (I'm thinking I'll be less active as the Summer ends). That's why I tried to "Hurry it along". I can see your reasoning though, so go ahead and do whatever you need to do. :) --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 12:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

:::::::I haven't contributed to this discussion so far, because I'm not really sure what I can usefully add. I've already done what I could to present my ideas about how the roleplaying pages could be moved into the userspace. From GK's accurate summary of my ideas, it seems that what I previously said was understood. I think the only way to make the concepts more concrete -- and the best way to work out the details -- is to start actually implementing some changes. If I had the time, I'd be willing to do some of the work, but that's simply not possible right now.
:::::::Reading through the rest of this discussion, the only thing on which I have a real opinion is that I think the Glitches/Proposed page has been a failure, for the same basic reasons already detailed by Timenn and others.
:::::::If the community desperately wants to make some type of immediate change, it seems to me that implementing Arch-Mage Matt's versions of the pages then locking them is the most viable short-term solution. In addition, I'd suggest putting a notice on the RP page telling editors who have contributions to start writing up their ideas on their own user page (or a subpage) -- or to copy an existing idea to their user page if they would like to modify it. Giving editors some options should limit the amount of angry backlash, plus it may result in some progress towards userfying the content. It's not a long-term solution -- maintaining the RP page should not be turned into an admin responsibility -- but it helps with some of the problems. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 23:46, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::While that would give an excuse to revert any edits we wouldn't want to clean up - just like the sic tags on pages people (Especially anonymous users, who don't have userpages) would still largely ignore notices like that, I'd think.
::::::::And I don't really think the proposed pages would go over so badly -- doing some digging- I see that the Glitches/Proposed pages came out in 2006, while the patroller group came out in 2007, and it only really became official and structured several months later. Now, however, with several patrollers monitering the Recent changes, It seems like we might be able to handle it.
::::::::Another Idea would be for the Proposed page to be userfied itself, so nothing is made official and the user it goes under can manage it better. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 01:37, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

{{od}} Okay, I think this discussion is long enough by now - and Nephele's reply gives the impression that the community overall supports the idea. Once again, I want to point out that it is '''not''' necessarily a permanent solution, merely a way to deal with the problem here and now - and maybe later, when Neph gets more free time, we can make the transition to userspace. Bad, unneeded edits are being made each and every day to the RP pages, so lets try this one: Serious objections can be made '''until this friday''' and then the following will happen:
* Matt adds all his work to the pages and clean them up. Some patrollers and admins will proofread them (hard task, but hey, its our job) and give them the patrolled stamp.
* An admin '''locks''' ALL RP pages (excluding the talk pages for now) and adds a notice that explains why the page is locked. The notice will also link people to:
* The newly made Roleplaying/Proposed page that will now function as the ONLY way for new RP ideas.
Friday, people. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 12:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

: As long as it's a temporary fix, I'll support this. I think everybody agrees that a /Proposed page isn't going to work in the long term, and I agree that admins shouldn't be left with having to maintain the RP pages. I'd prefer to see a definite date to move onto whatever next stage people want to head towards, because I'm worried this might end up becoming ''de facto'' permanent, but given the appalling quality of recent edits, I'll put up with almost anything as a stop-gap. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 12:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

::My one question would be why even create a Roleplaying/Proposed page? Why not just tell users to put any "proposed" RPs on their user pages? If there's general agreement that we want to move RPs to user pages, it seems more logical to start putting the content there instead of creating a page that many people think is a mistake and everyone agrees we don't want in the long term. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 14:32, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

:::I agree with Nephele's point, let's just tell users to start putting them in User space and adding a [[:Category:Roleplaying Ideas]] tag to it. That way, we can find them easily if we decide to do anything further with them, and they're out of the way in User space in the mean time. Apart from that, I support Krusty's idea completely. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 15:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

::::sorry bout butting in but i would like to say that i agree with robin and nephele, if you're gonna strat something, start it now--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 18:47, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Krusty, I'll tell you now that I copy-and-pasted (I think) every article into Microsoft Word for a spellcheck, so you don't need to check for that. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 19:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

{{od}}We should still go over it, though, as spell-checkers and even grammar-checkers aren't perfect, as ewe can see. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 19:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

: My reason for the Proposed-page was to give creative roleplayers a page where they could write down their ideas, nothing more. But I'll agree with Neph and RH70 that the other solution is even better, especially if we, at some point, move the RP pages into userspace. But then I hope one of you two (Neph or RH) will write an appropriate notice to put on top of the pages. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 20:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

::What kind of notice are you thinking of, and for which pages? Just something that informs users that Roleplaying pages should now be created in User space? – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 21:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Yep, something like that; a friendly message informing roleplayers that we have closed the pages due to heavy traffic (or whatever works best) and that new ideas can be created in the [[:Category:Roleplaying Ideas]], on their own userpage, on the Proposed-page - or whatever we decide. It would probably be a good idea to aim it towards Nephele's upcoming userspace-thingy, so maybe she has a good idea for a notice? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 22:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Wow, can't believe I did that. Thanks for fixing the question location! <blush> The message should be easy enough...I think a simple {{tl|Message}} template should be sufficient. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 22:47, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

:::::Okay, I've created {{tl|RPtoUserspace}} as a first stab at a banner for the pages. If we want, once the pages are deleted, we can modify it a bit and leave it in place as the entire content of Oblivion:Roleplaying. Obviously, the text still needs work, and we need to figure out how exactly we'll be indicating which articles have been adopted and which haven't. In the message text, I've tentatively suggested simply creating a list of what's been adopted, then an Administrator can either delete the entry from the appropriate RP page or list it as "(Adopted)". The latter has the benefit that multiple users can adopt the same idea and take it in a different direction. I'm not convinced this is the best way to handle it, but the only other way I could think of to deal with adoptions was to ''not'' lock the pages and let users just do the work themselves, reverting all edits that aren't adoption-related. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 18:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::The template looks good. The problem is that I think this would create a new subpage which wasn't really the proposal before if I remember correctly (see Nephele's page under roleplaying tests). Not that I have a problem with it but I just thought I should make sure that this was actually what the pseudo-consensus from before was.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 22:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

:::::::You're right, the original had been for just a single page. I've changed the template to match that proposal, including removing the instructions for the category, as I think Nephele's sub-categories created by the template make a lot more sense. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 23:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

===Must-Have Mods===
Okay, I've userfied this page now. Yes, I blanked over 1/2 the page, but I believe there was consensus for this change here. Let me know if you have problems with this new system, and please create your own mods pages - things are looking a little sparse at the moment! [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 17:02, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:My favorite types of mods are Companion Mods - I can name a few good ones. (Great ones, actually.) --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 17:20, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
::Just as a side-point to the Must-Have Mods, do we want a User Mods Page category (or whatever you want to call it)? Or would that just end up being essentially a duplication of the page? I'm a big fan of using Categories for things like this, but there are certainly times when it's just redundant. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 06:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I would have thought it would make navigating a lot easier, so I am in favour of such a category being created. [[User:Jadrax|Jadrax]] 06:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
{{Showhide/End}}
=== Wrap-up ===
Just resurrecting this thread. Did we want to put the banner in place so that users know what's going on and can stop suggesting ideas on talk pages? ;) – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 19:10, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Hmm. Two things: I think that we can move to semi-protection - the last three proposed sections were started by IPs and I'd like to start adopting things now. Also what are the new guidelines for roleplaying? For example: Are we allowing things from non-ES sources now? What about things that require the console? It seems like it's going to be a bit harder to regulate now - especially without editing other peoples pages. (We may actually have to relax that rule a bit; if we put content on userpages we still have to be able to fix spelling and grammar since this is still going to be part of our public image).--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 19:30, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::I removed all non-ES related content, Ninja, Geisha, etc. I don't like those things, but it's up to everyone. I also refused to do the Ruler page on the grounds that only two of the suggestions could be done without the console. Only 1/3 of the people reading have the PC, so it wouldn't be good for them to skip over half the articles that require the computer. And there are still confirmed users wanting to edit the pages.
:: And I yet again bring up the fact that the Ruler page remained untouched. I'd like to propose it's deletion, but it is up to everyone.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 19:37, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:: But now that people can choose to skip it since it's on different pages, why shouldn't we just make a couple of subcategorys and have a special template to add PC only or non-ES related content to those?--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 19:44, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::: I can accept that PC content may be included, (It's not ''as'' bad as other things,) and I left the occsasional mod reccomendation there, but still things like Ninja and Geisha and the like seem just silly for ''Oblivion'' RP suggestions.

:::: Given that these are going into User space, I see no reason to "forbid" any type of roleplay. A good set of categories would definitely be useful, though, like those requiring mods or console use. I don't think too many people would complain if you added or removed categories appropriate to that type of page. And yeah, semi-protection might be the way to go here, and people can just cut & paste anything they want to keep/adopt. It might be hard for beginners to find the lost content, but if anybody mentions it, there are lots of us to help them recover the content before it gets deleted. (Not to mention, an Admin can alway undelete and userfy if necessary.) – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 20:31, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

::::: I'm going to start a new discussion on the CP about what exactly we should do as far as editing other peoples pages to fix the content on them - it seems like it's a big enough thing that it deserves to not be in a discussion that most people seem to have been ignoring.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 20:39, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::: There's no need for a separate discussion - this is already the CP - it's just a subpage. It's listed in the "Active Discussions" section so people should be able to find it.
:::::: But this is the thing I still don't understand. If people create a Paladin roleplay (for instance), can anybody edit it? Can they add but not change? Can they not edit it at all? Do people have to create their own version? How do subpages get added to the central articles?
:::::: I've said since the start that I don't understand exactly what is being proposed, and we're now in a "Wrap-up" section, and I ''still'' don't understand. I don't think I'm being particularly thick here - I just think there's an awful lot of hand-waving going on. As a patroller, I need to know exactly what is being suggested here. At the moment, I don't think anybody has any clear idea. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 20:49, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

====Wrap Up (Edit break 1)====
{{od}} My understanding, which may or may not match anybody else's, is that each user would be free to keep their own version and personalize it to their tastes, just like the various Mods lists. Assuming that that's the case, then the questions about editing become fairly moot. It's not unusual to correct faulty categories in User space and do other site-maintenance edits, but apart from that, editing is forbidden unless specifically stated otherwise. If I've understood Nephele's template correctly, it'll allow the same article to be categorized in the same category multiple times with different names, thus allowing the Roleplaying category to contain Paladin, Ninja, and Tax Lawyer entries even though they're just sections of the same page. That said, there's no reason I can think of that they couldn't be on subpages as well. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 21:06, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
: Modeling it after the Must-Have Mods would probably be as good as we can do now. (Additions, though, we can't delete those that are there now, after what I did! :) -) And that could also mean while keeping the others as they are, we usefy the Ruler page. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 21:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:: Okay, but I would point out that most edits to the RP sections are people making tweaks rather than full additions. People add things like another place to live, another weapon to use, a different skill to prioritize, a different way of living. Both replies so far would seem to suggest that such edits will no longer be allowed - that's certainly how I understand things. What happens in such cases? Do we simply say "Tough - the other guy got there first and we're not interested in what you think" or "Copy the whole section from that guy's page to your own and add your suggestion there, then add a link to the central page"?
:: The comparison to Recommended mods (it's been merged now!) doesn't work. The mods I list on my [[User:Rpeh/Mods|mods]] page are the ones I use, and nobody can possibly give me a more accurate or useful list of the mods I use than me. With roleplaying, anybody might have an idea that would improve the page (deletion would be my favourite)
:: I'm sorry if this comes across as just being difficult, but I honestly don't see how this works. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 21:27, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::: I understand your point completely, and I think that's just the price we have to pay for Userfying the pages. Instead of tweaks to the pages, we'll get suggestions on the talk pages instead. At least, that's what I would see happening. I could also see a system where edits are allowed freely, but the maintaining user is the final arbiter. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 21:35, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:::: In which case, I have to ask... why are we doing this? Instead of a set of OB:Roleplaying/Whatever pages that all the patrollers ignore, we end up with User:Whoever/Whatever pages that all the patrollers ignore. Just like a /Proposed page, this is moving the problem somewhere else - it isn't going to solve it.
:::: I hate to say it, but the only option I can see really working is to delete the whole damn lot. Apologies to AMM, and to GuildKnight before him, because I know both of them spent a lot of time trying to fix this, but I don't see how we can make this work without causing more problems than we solve. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 21:42, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::::: I'd rather useryfy them... for the obvious reason. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 21:46, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:::::: (e/c) This is exactly why I suggested a Roleplaying/Proposed page in the first place. I never really understood the Userspace thing either, but figured that somebody else did - if moving it into a different namespace will give us the exact same amount of work as before, then there is absolutely no reason to do it. For now, I simply suggest that we keep the pages locked - we have had 4 or 5 edits to the RP talk pages since the big shutdown and that is a LOT less than before - and no editors changing "Alteration" to "Speechcraft" and that sort of thing. And no, we should definitely not make the pages semi-protected at this point. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 21:49, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

::::::: I don't think a /Proposed page works either - we've seen what happens over at [[Oblivion:Glitches]]. The full protection has worked so far because I think at least ''some'' people have read the warnings at the top of the RP pages, but as soon as you say "Post to the /Proposed page instead" with a handy link, we'll get the usual dross appearing.
::::::: It won't ever be as bad as Glitches, I suspect, because it's too easy to say "it hapened to me to i was waking down some rode" etc on Glitches but less easy to say "i think marades shoud liv at becclehorn castle cos its cool and you coud pretend to fite enemey's and such". At least the latter requires some thought.
::::::: Can we not simply dump this turd on the Forums? Create a Roleplaying forum (for all I know there already is one) and use [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Soft_redirect soft redirects] to send people there? Forums are designed to have badly-written, ill-informed suggestions dribbled on them, but the only wikis that manage that successfully are Conservapedia and ED. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 22:08, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
{{od}} My original goal with the Roleplaying/Proposed page was to limit edits made to the entire Roleplaying section and only allow RPers to edit one page. My hope was that such a change would make life easier for patrollers and slow down the high-annoyance edits. While you are definitely right about the heavy traffic such a page would get, I'm pretty convinced that it will make people think (at least a bit) before editing, knowing that their RP idea has to be of a ceratin standard to fit this wiki. I'm also convinced that the very reason that the Glitches/Proposed page is a failure is the very fact that the Glitches page is semi-protected "only". It is not incredibly hard to make an account, even if your ideas are bad and your glitches hopeless. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 22:38, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not trying to support Userfying them (frankly, I'm at about as much a loss as anybody else on the best way to handle them), but I think the intended benefit of Userfying was that they could be treated like any other User page: Patrollers simply check to make sure that there's nothing grossly inappropriate, then patrol them and let the maintaining user worry about upkeep. As already pointed out, there are some definite downsides to the approach, but it ''would'' take a lot of RP work and sometimes-difficult judgement calls off the Patrollers, I think. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 22:49, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::Why? If a user decides to put suggestion on their own page, it is their own problem then. Anyone can just check it, like you said, make sure it's appropriate, then move on. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 22:55, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

::: Matt, I'm willing to listen to any suggestion right now. Please can you give us your answers to the questions I asked above (If people create a Paladin roleplay (for instance), can anybody edit it? Can they add but not change? Can they not edit it at all? Do people have to create their own version? How do subpages get added to the central articles?)
::: Let me be clear here: I do not intend in any way to be dogmatic on this issue. I'm fully aware I have a reputation for arguing but in this case, I'm only trying to understand what will happen and to point out what I consider to be problems with the various suggestions. I will support any suggestion that makes sense and that doesn't force either patrollers or admins to spend too much time fixing edits. At the moment, I think Krusty's suggestion would work best (although deletion would work better!) because I haven't seen answers to the questions I've asked: questions that will ''need'' to be answered when the proposed system goes live. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 23:16, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:::: As an example, it could go like this:

There are many ways to roleplay in Oblivion... blah blah blah... these are some suggestions on what to do. (Links to old RP pages)

Here are some users who have some suggested ideas for roleplaying. Note that some of these suggestions may not be as high quality as the official ones.

User:Josh/RP-Suggestions

It says... palidons r cool they do good stuff they are warriors be a nord to be a palidin. were steel armor and do nice stuff do everything but the DB and TG. get 1000 fame, downlowd mods <nowiki>[[Example]]</nowiki> and <nowiki>[[Example]]</nowiki>. they will make bieng a palidin cool.

No matter how much we hate this, Josh here has a right to write whatever he wants, as it is under his page. We just need to listen to that note saying ''Note that some of these suggestions may not be as high quality as the official ones.'' --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 23:32, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: Right... but that doesn't answer the questions. Can I fix the spelling? Can I change the recommended race? Can I edit that at all? If not, do I have to copy and paste all that to my own /Paladin page and put in what I think should happen? If so, do we link to both versions of the Paladin page? Do we really want ten different versions of how to be a paladin? Do we really want to have to patrol ten different pages describing how to be a paladin? I'm still not seeing answers here. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 23:40, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:: {{ec}} Due to the EC, I'll respond to rpeh first, since it's short: I don't care for the idea myself, but yes, the ten-Paladins scenario is what I believe ''could'' happen with the Userfied solution. Still, patrolling User space is pretty quick when you don't need to worry about making corrections.

:: Matt: I'm not entirely sure what the "Why?" part of your question was in reference to. If it was to why I'm not trying to support Userfying, don't take that too harshly—to-date, that's the option I like best, but as rpeh and others have pointed out, it's not without questions that would need to be resolved. Like you, I agree that once a user adopts it, it's their page, but I can foresee others wanting to try to contribute and feeling they don't have a way to short of adopting the whole section.

:: As for some of the other ideas, as much as I'd personally love to delete the Roleplaying pages, I don't think I can support that option, since I've come to realize that a number of people are clearly making use of them. I'm not a fan of the Proposed option, though I can see some benefit in that. And similarly, the jury's out on rpeh's forums idea for me as well—I'm not sure how the Forums people would like us dumping our problem on them, and I'm sure the ideas would lose most or all of the formatting...but at the same time, I've seen a number of roleplaying forum threads for other games that have worked out quite well, and it does seem to me to be a bit more appropriate there, since it allows people to comment on or contribute to the original idea without altering it directly. So you can see why I'm a little lost as to the best option here.

::In the end, my vote would be to Userfy, but you won't hear a peep outta me if we move them to Forums, and only a tiny little "I don't care for it" for Proposed. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 23:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:::One of the things Nephele intended to happen at the same time this was to create "Userspace Patrollers". Basically they have the right to check edits in userspace but nowhere else; it was intended to work with the new option to hide namespaces in Recent Changes and take some of the load off the gamespace patrollers. They were also intended to be responsible for userfied content.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 00:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

::::Let's say if Josh decides to allow others to edit his page. It would not be your ''duty'' to change it, you can change it if you want to. If Josh doesn't allow others to edit his page, that is why his page is called User:Josh/RP-Suggestions not User:Josh/Paladin. If anyone else wants to have a paladin, they'd make, again, a /Rp-Suggestions not /Paladin. It'd be less of a clutter that way, as they could put other things in it.

::::And if Josh allowed people to edit his page, obviously, people cannot remove, change extremely (Reword his entire article) or add other suggestions.

::::And I'm sure that mods like Josjie and Leliah (The two I can think of now) on the forums will '''not''' like our problems dumped on them, like you said. They'll have to read and make sure everything is appropriate instead of us. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 00:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

::: Yes, dumping it on the forums would be a pretty unkind way of dealing with it, but... well tough. The forums are where people already go for "So whats hte best sword in the game i like golbrand but some ppl seem to liek ubra????" so people arguing over illusion vs conjuration as a skill for some roleplay is par for the course.
::: I've said before (but can't be bothered to find diffs) that if you need to be told how to roleplay then you're not doing it right. YOU are supposed to be a Paladin, and it's up to you to work out what that means: if you need to be told what to do then RPGs are not for you. On that basis, the entire roleplaying section could be reduced to one-line statements: "Paladin: become the honorable champion of a cause - noble or otherwise".
::: Anyway. At this point, we're pretty much talking round in circles. I'm going to leave this debate now, and all I ask is that we get a clear set of guidelines for how whatever solution is picked is supposed to work. If we end up with more hand-waving, then we'll just be moving the problem to another place. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::::I mainly am arguing for the non-deletion of them is because I've cleaned them. And I think I might be the most active Forum user and UESP user (That I know of...), and that's not saying a lot because I only contribute to the Trivia, mainly, but I have seen that the Forums aren't really as you describe. And I agree with you on the subject of simple RP pages, quoting myself "Nobody needs their hands held when they're roleplaying". --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 00:12, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

::::: I know it's usually discouraged, but given that we're pretty much talking in circles, and I don't see any ''major'' objections to any approach, would anybody object if we just put this to a vote? Once we've nailed down for certain ''what'' solution we're using, then we can hammer out the specifics of ''how''. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 02:45, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

{{od}}Nephele would have to say for sure, but I found more similarities with her proposal and our ''Fanfiction'' articles than our ''Mods'' articles. She'd also have to back this up, but let me see if I can break down her suggestion and make it a little clearer:
#All of the current RPs are put up for "adoption".
#RP sections are adopted by editors that volunteer to maintain them. They are moved from content-space into user-space and categorized. They are completely user-owned articles. Any editor can adopt any number of articles.
#Any that aren't adopted after a pre-determined amount of time are proposed for deletion.
#The main roleplaying article is edited to hold a very basic description of what roleplaying is and how to develop ideas of your own, becoming even smaller than it is now. Instead of listing every user-space article, the main roleplaying page will simply link to the category.
#Like fanfictions, the user-owned RP articles are uneditable by other editors unless the adopter specifically states that they welcome editing. Otherwise, editors can make suggestions on the talk pages. Sure, some editors may like to add/change things, but they aren't be able to, and I think that'll be fine. The whole point of this conversation and project is that it's not wiki-type material, and we shouldn't try to treat it as such.
#The only maintenance that is necessary is making sure that the user-owned articles are properly categorized.
I'd definitely prefer to see these articles go away, but I don't see that passing community consensus, so this seems like the next best thing. And AMM: I know how you feel, believe me; I did at least as much work as you just did cleaning these articles up a while back, but it's quite clear that they just don't belong here. I would definitely prefer to see the RP suggestions as forum posts instead, but since that doesn't look likely, either, this is the best solution I've seen. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 03:26, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
====Wrap Up (Edit break 2)====
This sounds fairly good. The only problem is that if we link to them from the article in wiki-space it's still in the wiki and thus it reflects badly on us if we include thing in that category like "Mage's should go kill lotz of stuf with magik kuz thats what mages du". I think that we should have a subcategory ("Oblivion-Roleplaying-Ideas-Suitable-For-Main-Site" Is a bit long though. Any ideas for a name.) that would be handled by Userspace Patrollers. I have some thoughts on the rules for handling that but I'll write them up in the morning.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 07:35, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
:This has been going on for a while now, and so I have [[User:Jplatinum16/Sandbox/Bronze|created a page]] with my vision of how it should look (based upon GK and Nephele's suggestions). Basically, it works almost exactly like the Fanfiction page, where you can include a link to your Roleplaying Ideas page under the appropriate section. I've also created a [[User:Roleplaying Example]] to serve as an example of how it should be done. The example hasn't been implemented yet because the template I suggested (<nowiki>{{Roleplaying Ideas|Name of Roleplay|My Username|Optional summary of submission.}}</nowiki>) hasn't been created yet. The template will include a link to the user's Roleplaying Ideas page, the name of their idea (which they must put in sections, as detailed [[User:Roleplaying Example/Roleplaying Ideas|here]]. That means the template must be able to link the appropriate sections), and the user name. The example's roleplaying ideas page will include ''one'' of each roleplay character type variation (as in, one variation of assassin and one variation of fighter). Other users can expand upon these on their own RI pages or come up with their own. My concept may seem a little confusing, so any questions or comments? -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 14:49, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

::A large part of what I have to say boils down to what GK said -- in particular regarding using Fanfiction as a starting point. But having already started to write this all down, here are all the gory details:

::''Allowed edits to userspace pages''
::* My thought was that we should have a template used on userspace pages to tell everyone what level of editing was acceptable. I previously put together a first draft of the template at [[Template:Editing Allowed]].
::* Assuming that basic idea is acceptable, we're still left with what to do if a user hasn't added an Editing Allowed template.
::** We could continue to assume that any untagged user pages are off limits to anyone except the editor.
::** Or we could make it so that all roleplaying content is implicitly open to some level of editing -- unless explicitly stated otherwise by the owner. For example, we could add an |editing= option to the [[Template:Roleplaying|Roleplaying]] template (defaulting to editing=all) which automatically adds the Editing Allowed template to RP pages.
::* If a page is marked as un-editable and somebody wants to modify the idea then they would have to create their own copy of the page. (Or else ask the original user for permission to make changes, or post suggestions on the talk page, etc.) So if Josh doesn't want anyone touching his Paladin article, then we'd end up with multiple Paladin articles.
::* However, we probably do want to make a general exception, allowing edits to tags such as the <nowiki>{{Roleplaying}}</nowiki> tag and its contents, regardless of the user's Editing Allowed preference. In particular, I think that other community members should be able to make changes to the categories. One justification for this exception is that such edits would not affect the page contents, but would affect category pages which are still essentially under community control.

::''Patrolling''
::* Regardless of whether or not we add userspace patrollers, I was assuming that existing standards for userspace patrolling would continue (and, in fact, this is one of the key reasons why moving the content to the userspace makes any difference relative to existing practice). In other words, for an edit to be marked as patrolled it basically just has to be made by someone who is allowed to edit the page, and the edit can't break site policy (no copyright violations, no personal insults, etc.).
::* I think there should be absolutely no expectation that patrollers are responsible for any type of cleanup -- spelling, grammar, whatever -- even if the original editor has stated that the content can be edited.

::''Quality''
::* Once the content is in the userspace, I do ''not'' think that its quality reflects on UESP overall. There's already a quality warning on the first draft of the [[:Category:User_Content-Oblivion-Roleplaying|category pages]], which can be expanded if anyone thinks it's necessary. Beyond that, userspace RP articles would have the same effect on the site overall as fanfiction (all of which are listed on a [[General:Fanfiction|wikispace page]]), or as existing userpages -- which vary in quality just as widely as RP articles ever will.
::* The quality of the RP pages is likely to go down overall. However, my impression is that most of the people who contribute roleplaying ideas and most of the people who read the roleplaying ideas would prefer a wide-open range of ideas regardless of quality, rather than a tightly controlled, limited, but higher quality set of ideas.
::* I don't think we have any way to prevent a user from adding non-ES or console-based roleplaying ideas to a user page (and we never have). Furthermore, as in my previous point, there clearly are some editors and readers who want such content.
::* I personally would think that such non-ES/console ideas probably belong in separate categories. Overall, however, I think that details of how to categorize/organize the content should be left up to editors with an actual interest in roleplaying ideas. In other words, given that I personally am unlikely to ever read a RP page, I don't think my opinion on such details should matter.
::* Long-term there are probably even some ways to handle particularly poor-quality RPs, even in the userspace. For example, if enough editors agree (e.g., on a talk page), an RP idea could be tagged as "low quality", in which case the ideas would be moved to a separate category. (Editors could also vote on the best RP ideas, for that matter). Perhaps if an RP article hasn't been modified in xx months, it automatically gets downgraded to an out-of-date category. However, I don't think that it makes sense to hammer out the details before we even have any content -- and again, it should be up to editors who use the pages.

::''Existing pages''
::* In terms of the existing Roleplaying content, my thought was that as part of the "adoption" process, we would eventually get rid of all of the existing roleplaying ''sub''pages -- the individual sections would all be moved to the userspace, or else deleted if nobody adopted that section.
::* For those subpages with more general introductory sections, the introduction might best be moved to the appropriate category page (e.g., [[:Category:User_Content-Oblivion-Roleplaying-Fighter]], etc.)
::* I personally think that [[Oblivion:Roleplaying]] itself should be kept out of the userspace, primarily because it is a community effort -- it's not just a series of individually-written sections. And overall it seems to get fewer unwanted edits. Perhaps it would need to be permanently semi-protected -- and we probably would want to make it clear that any additions to "Specific Character Ideas" or other unwanted content added to the page will be immediately deleted.

::''Why not delete it all''
::* One critical point is that we essentially have no way to prevent people from adding these ideas to their user pages. Users have always been free to add whatever they wanted to the userspace. Ultimately the whole move-to-userspace just amounts to advertising an existing capability more visibly -- and adding some tags/categorization so people who want to find the content can.
::* More idealistically, however, I think that UESP should be a resource for the entire Elder Scrolls community -- so if there are members of the community who want to share roleplaying ideas, I think we should explore how to facilitate that, instead of shutting them out. Making entire topics taboo on UESP will just force ES players to set up a site somewhere else to share those topics. At that point, UESP has lost community members, has lost readers, and (for those who care solely about the bottom line) has lost advertising revenue, meaning we not might be able to afford future hardware upgrades, new servers, etc. Pushing people away from UESP could even promote the growth of other wikis (especially after TESV comes out).
::* The central idea behind moving RP content to the userspace is to get it out of everyone else's hair. My hope is that doing so addresses the community-wide issues related to roleplaying -- it is no longer "official" UESP content that reflects on the overall site; it is no longer the patrollers' or other editors' responsibility to clean it up. If it's possible to make it so that disinterested editors can just ignore the roleplaying pages, then I don't see any reason to disallow it.
::* I think promoting userspace content will increase the number of active UESP editors, even outside of the userspace. Starting out as a new editor on UESP can be downright intimidating -- we've probably all seen comments such as "everything's been written" or "there's nothing I could do on the site". Promoting userspace content gives people a chance to learn about wiki editing and learn generally about how the site works, in a much more forgiving atmosphere than the rest of the site. Many of those editors might never make an edit outside of the userspace. But I'd bet some of them will get wiki-addicted just like all of us, and will expand to help elsewhere on the site. Or they'll at least know about previews and edit summaries when they do make occasional fix-it edits elsewhere on the site.

::In response specifically to Jplatinum16's sandbox ideas, I'm a bit confused by several details.
::* Why should users have to explicitly add a link to their idea on the page? Categories (e.g., [[:Category:User_Content-Oblivion-Roleplaying]]) can take care of that automatically. (And I think that's one detail of the fanfiction pages that should be redone, too).
::* Why should users have to put all of their roleplaying ideas on a single page? I think that should be one option for how to organize ideas, but I don't think it should be the only option.

::--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 16:27, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I had completely forgotten about the Category idea, and I have changed my sandbox accordingly. Now the page serves as a viewing hub for users and non-users to see roleplaying ideas. I've included ten roles for now to be adopted. I still think that users should put their ideas on one page, which would limit the amount of pages to be created, and make it easier for ptrollers. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 18:21, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

::::{{ec}} I'm beginning to regret resurrecting this thread in some ways :), but I'm glad we're moving forward on this.

::::'''Jplatinum16:''' I think your idea for how a RP Ideas Category page should look is a great start.

::::'''Nephele (et al):''' I can see the benefit of putting Roleplaying into Category pages, and it occurred to me that FanFiction could probably be done that way as well. But would a {{Tag|catpagetemplate|open}} be able to handle a summary line, or would we have to simplify it (like the current Roleplay categories appear)? I'll play and see what I can get out of it, but as the designer of catpagetemplate, you'll probably have a better idea of what can be done here.

::::Also, I like Neph's idea of highlighting certain articles, but I think we're better off flipping it around and having "Featured Roleplays", to highlight the really good ones. Editors may be rather discouraged by having their roleplay tagged as "low quality". :) – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 18:27, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::I've added summaries and a bunch of test entries to some of our Roleplaying entries. You can see examples on any of the [[:Category:User_Content-Oblivion-Roleplaying|roleplaying category pages]]. What do people think of the general idea, and specifically the formatting now that there's a bunch of entries in place? Note that for the moment, you can't actually add these with the "real" Roleplaying template; if people like the general idea, it's an easy addition to the Roleplaying template. Also note that if users try hard enough, and know what they're doing, they'll be able to add HTML formatting to the title, summary, or anything else. I just tried it, and the formatting actually looked so awful, I reverted it. We'll want to keep an eye out for that, or strip HTML from the input (if that's possible...I don't remember), and probably trim overly-long entries too.

:::::Wandering off-topic slightly, the [[General:Fanfiction|Fanfiction]] page could be moved to a Category page and done similarly, though unless Nephele can astound me once again (which she does on a fairly frequent basis, actually), I think we'd have to give up at least ''some'' of the formatting found on the current page if it went into a category. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 19:46, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

::::::I missed ''just a bit'' (Sarcastically as possibly possible), it seems. I haven't fully read everything yet but in short, Jplatinum's idea looks good. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 19:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::::Just a quick note: while RH was adding summaries to the individual Roleplaying entries, I was messing about with subcategory summaries (and I'll probably still be making some tweaks). So basically, there are a couple of different things being tested on the category pages, each of which can be undone/modified/etc separately. As for the fanfiction pages, it should be possible to put together a category with most of what the existing page has. The biggest "issue" is making wiki-style formatting possible for cattextpost/cattextpre -- which isn't difficult, I just hadn't bothered to realize before that the category text isn't being wikified by default. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 20:20, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

====Wrap Up (Edit break 3)====
{{od}} (Probably the largest edit conflict ever) Well here are the rules I said I'd write up. I'm not sure it matters anymore but whatever.
#Any user can nominate any roleplay for inclusion. However there must be at least a two-out-of-three vote by Userspace Patrollers for it to be included.
# If a nomination for inclusion is not accepted by the owner of the nominated page within two weeks the nomination is void.
# If no Userspace Patrollers vote on a nomination the nomination is void unless there is overwhelming support which is herein defined as twelve unopposed or more votes of support.
# All entries must be reviewed by at least three Userspace Patroller at least once a month. If this review is unfavorable then there must be at least a two-out-of-three vote by previously non-affiliated Userspace Patrollers to keep the entry.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 21:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
: UPs aren't even officialized yet and no one is a UP yet, so we would need to wait on that. And by inclusion do you mean being put with the 'official' ones? --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 21:12, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: (e/c) This... is turning into some kind of nightmare. We've now got an intricate system of templates and categories, with which new users are expected to familiarise themselves; systems of votes for high- and low-quality ideas, systems of editing restrictions, and who knows how many other systems for dealing with systems. And now the same ideas are being suggested for fanfics - an area that has managed by itself perfectly well both before and after it was moved to userspace.

:: Nephele said: "The central idea behind moving RP content to the userspace is to get it out of everyone else's hair" but I'm sorry, I don't think that's going to happen here. There is no way the sort of editor who typically edits roleplaying articles is going to manage to deal with all this stuff. It's going to come down to admins, patrollers, and other editors who have been around a while, and doing a hand-wave to pass it off to userspace patrollers is another way of saying that nobody really gives a damn about this content.

:: I don't believe it's true that deleting the roleplaying content is going to stop UESP getting the hardware it needs in the future. We've deleted vast sections before - [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Oblivion:Custom Classes|Custom Classes]], [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Oblivion:Gripes|Gripes]], [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Tes4Mod:Mod Ideas|Mod Ideas]] and [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Oblivion:Things to Do When You're Bored|Things to Do When You're Bored]] are four hugely popular sections that spring to mind - and I don't see a catastrophic drop in activity that is down to anything but the games becoming a few months older.

:: If the goal of this idea is to stop people from editing by making it too complicated for them to understand how, then I don't think that will work either. Instead, expect to see people ignoring edit restrictions, posting new ideas on existing pages, putting things into the wrong category, copy-pasting and generally making a total pig's ear of this whole system.

:: I don't believe this kind of system is suitable for a wiki-style environment. Despite the many problems with the current set-up, I'd prefer that, but my vote would still go to deleting the whole damn lot and telling people to use a forum.

:: I have real work that I want to do on this site. All I see coming out of this userspace move is a mess, and a mess that will distract me and other editors from making edits that will really, truly improve UESP. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 21:24, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

::: I don't see such a big problem. I mean, we've already got a button that'll insert the appropriate template onto the appropriate page. It may need some tweaking once we finalize everything, but the basic concept is already there - all the user has to do is fill in the blanks. Yes, categorization may be a bit more of an issue, but I think the UPs can cover that off reasonably well, and it's nowhere near as much work to edit a category as it is to review an entire submission. As it is, Roleplaying is often left unpatrolled, and I think Userfying would be a ''huge'' improvement. At least by flagging it as user content, the regular Patrollers can patrol it as such and move on, and if the Userspace Patrollers take care of it before we get there, so much the better!

::: Worst case scenario, it turns out to have been a bad idea and we Prod the whole mess and move on. Best case scenario, users find it inviting, easy-to-use, and we introduce a bunch of users to a simplified version of patrolling, with the possibility of attracting them to the larger version of it. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 23:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

::::No one's forcing you to participate in this discussion rpeh, so if you have more important matters to take part of on the site then feel free to do so. I also seriously doubt that deleting the RP pages will cause a serious uproar, but we tried to delete it before and that didn't work, and so we can at least make it easier. The setup is basically all here (with some tweaks of course), as detailed on my sandbox. Users make their pages like with fanfiction: their ideas are free to be seen by anyone. How difficult is it to create a page and write something? It most likely can be more clarified to make it easier for newer users. Obviously some people give "a damn about this content", otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. What are your thoughts about the plan already thought up (a.k.a. my sandbox)? Is it really too difficult to follow? Do you see any future problems with it? I like the plan; one of the benefits is less IP addresses and more users, and of course we won't have those many unpatrolled edits. Can we discuss the sandbox right now, as it seems to include what we've established. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 03:05, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
:::::We're getting back to that rut again. I'm sure many people are getting sick of this - I say we put JP's, RH's. and Nephele's combined recent work up for a vote - soon, before we forget what we were talking about.
:::::On that topic, I would vote for it to go that way. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 03:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

::::::Jplatinum, you've missed the whole point of my post. It's easy to have this discussion between a group of editors who have been around for a long time, but the only time any of us edit the RP pages is to fix links and spelling. The system has to be usable by new users with limited or no experience of wiki editing. For a new editor, creating a page and writing something is '''very''' difficult. I say nobody gives a damn about the content because this entire discussion is aimed at finding a way of moving it to a place where edits can be safely ignored. Are you really saying that you will start reading the roleplaying discussion. Once again I will quote Nephele: "The central idea behind moving RP content to the userspace is to get it out of everyone else's hair" so I think I'm fully justified in saying what I said.

::::::FWIW, I think your sandbox looks great but I don't think it will work. It doesn't matter how detailed the instructions are, a lot of people simply won't read them. As a simple example, we have a big, bold headline at the bottom of each page, under which users are asked to sign their talk page posts. How many times in a typical day to people simply ignore that?

::::::I could well be wrong. This might all work beautifully, and result in a fantastic, brave new world of wonderful roleplays always appearing in the right place, with no problems. If so, I will be very grateful for the new way of doing things. Moving roleplays out of Oblivion space is a great idea because it means we don't need to recreate anything for TES V (or Morrowind for that matter).

::::::As for ignoring the discussion, I had fully intended to do so and only came back when a hideous, overblown bureaucracy started to emerge, involving votes for good or bad pages, systems of highlighting and god knows what else. While I honestly do not care what eventually happens to these pages, I feel I should always warn people when they're gamboling joyfully towards the edge of a cliff. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 07:46, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Is this stuff really worth fighting for? Its just a page where ppl put game ideas on how to expand the gaming experiance. I enjoyed the fun stuff to do when your bored page and you guys deleted that. Actually the new roleplaying pages look crappy and dumb.Yes,offense to whoever did that. We all had voices on that page and we came up with our own ideas as long as we followed some guidelines. And besides this whole discussion is probaly between 5 ppl i didnt vote for who legitimateely rule this website.This entire discussion is just idiocracy and i perphaps you could set is so that it automatically sets as an minor-edit so patrollers wont be bothered in their eternal quest to standardize things.and yes i didnt sign it just to spite you. {{unsigned|Kinvalor75|5 September 2010}}
:::::::: We're trying to do this '''SO''' everyone can express their opinions and ideas while at the same time patrollers and admins do not need to worry about it being in the Oblivion content. The current versions are much better content wise - it no longer hurts anyone's eyes to read it. And no, almost no one followed the guidlines for the Roleplaying pages. They used first person, horrid spelling, and repeated ideas. With the new Roleplaying style, you can do all that and no one will give a damn. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 16:21, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

==Proposal for New Roleplaying System==
You're right rpeh, this has been spiraling out of control, which was part of my reason of butting into the discussion. I want this to be over with as much as anybody else. To bring this to a close I suggest we at least ''try'' it. Like you said, this could either be something people completely ignore, or a system where everything works out perfectly (or close to perfect). If it doesn't work out, we delete the new categories, and unlock the roleplay pages and see where it takes us from there. But can we first try this new system, and let it sink or swim? We already have the proposal: users create their own roleplaying idea pages where they list their own character types. The types show up in the [[:Category:User Content-Oblivion-Roleplaying|Roleplaying categories]]. Users can make up their own ideas, or copy some from the old roleplay subpages (the subpages are temporary. Users who want to keep them put it on their own pages). Then here is the vote:

*The contents of [[User:Jplatinum16/Sandbox/Bronze|my sandbox]] get moved into the user space as the page '''Oblivion:Roleplaying Ideas'''
*The current [[Oblivion:Roleplaying|Roleplaying]] page gets unprotected and gets [[User:Jplatinum16/Sandbox/Silver#Roleplaying Message|this message]] put above it. The roleplaying page is now just a regular page which anybody can edit.
*The subpages remain protected and get [[User:Jplatinum16/Sandbox/Silver#Roleplaying Subpages Message|this message]] put above it.
*Assuming we get Userspace patrollers up and running, they will watch the roleplaying edits (as well as normal patrollers). All they look for is any vandalism, personal attacks, and profanity. They will also see if any user is struggling trying to set up their Roleplaying Ideas page.
*We give the system three months after the official launch. In this three months, we let it take place. The system will be deleted if the following requirements aren't met:
:#There aren't at least <del>10-15</del> 5 users using this new system at the end of the three months,
:#There are <del>15-25</del> 15 unresolved complaints and/or problems involving the system by the end of the three months (problems include users having difficulty using the system, and users making random roleplaying sections everywhere ''but'' their roleplaying pages). Vandalism does not count, and the complaints must be from <del>15-25</del> 15 ''different'' users.
:#There are a combination of 25 resolved and unresolved complaints and/or problems involving the system.
:#There are more than 50 unpatrolled edits to the these new user pages by the end of the 3 months.
*If the system passes this test, then the roleplaying subpages are deleted and we keep using the system.
I think this is a reasonable request. If the system breaks rule number 3 before the 3 months, it's apparent that the system is too flawed to serve any further. If anyone has any additional requirements for the system, feel free to comment.

'''Changes''': To address GK's excellent points, there have been some changes to the requirements. The number of users who need to be using the system is now 5; the reason behind this being that we want to know that the system is usable and not too difficult to follow. I've also changed the complaint requirement to 15 ''unresolved'' problems. A new added requirement is that there can't be a combination of 25 complaints/problems with the system: if there is that many problems, we know it isn't working.

===Votes===
* '''Support:''' - as system nominator. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 18:31, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
* '''Support:''' with the proviso for #2 that the complaints come from multiple users and that vandalism and/or any suspicion of gaming the system are discounted. Otherwise the system could be deliberately failed quite easily. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 19:01, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
** Question: What's User:Roleplaying Ideas about? I don't think we really need a dummy user here; this should just be part of Oblivion space, or perhaps General if we're going for more than just Oblivion roleplays. User space should really just be for individual users. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 19:06, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Oops, the User thing was my bad. We'll keep it in the Oblivion namespace for the system test. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 19:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
* '''Support:''' As I said above. The final plan looks good. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 19:04, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: <s> Short of the nuclear option, this is probably the best way of handling things. I will pray to Talos that it works. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 19:42, 5 September 2010 (UTC)</s>
* '''Support:''' It is definitely worth a shot. Good work, JPlatinum16! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 19:47, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
* <del>'''Extremely Weak Support'''</del> – Too much bureaucracy. I prefer having these pages in the Userspace, so they can be individualized and so other users won't interfere with another person's ideas. I don't like the idea of other users telling other users how they should play. This is bound to cause more arguing and certain users will use the new rules to "game the system". I will the game is best played when user come up with their own ways to play. UESP shouldn't dictate how users play. --'''[[User:Michaeldsuarez|Michaeldsuarez]] ([[User talk:Michaeldsuarez|Talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Michaeldsuarez|Deeds]])''' 23:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
** '''Switched to Oppose''' – Until GK's concerns are addressed. --'''[[User:Michaeldsuarez|Michaeldsuarez]] ([[User talk:Michaeldsuarez|Talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Michaeldsuarez|Deeds]])''' 22:51, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' It's not so much 'dictating' as it is suggesting. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 00:17, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
**You know as well as I do that some some people take wikis a little seriously. Although the articles are meant to show ''a way'' of doing things, some people will believe that these pages are meant to be ''the way'' of doing things. --'''[[User:Michaeldsuarez|Michaeldsuarez]] ([[User talk:Michaeldsuarez|Talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Michaeldsuarez|Deeds]])''' 00:53, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
***But that's really their own problem, if they complain to that extent we'll tell them that. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 01:00, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
****And that's why I chose "weak support" instead of "weak oppose". I'm certain that the Patrollers will do the job granted to them, but my concern is with the average, inexperienced (and sometimes stubborn) user. --'''[[User:Michaeldsuarez|Michaeldsuarez]] ([[User talk:Michaeldsuarez|Talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Michaeldsuarez|Deeds]])''' 01:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' Are there even 15-20 people using the current system ? If not I think it's kind of unfair to expect more people than already use the RP pages to use this new system.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 00:24, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::The 15-20 users consist of IPs and users who've edited and read the old pages, and maybe even users who have never even looked at the RP pages. I think it's fair enough, considering the chance of failure of the system. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 00:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' How long will this voting process go on? If the answer is two weeks I think I'll faint. :) --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 01:00, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
**Does WP:Snowball apply to UESP? Disclaimer: I'm not saying that it should, especially since this is the first day of voting. --'''[[User:Michaeldsuarez|Michaeldsuarez]] ([[User talk:Michaeldsuarez|Talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Michaeldsuarez|Deeds]])''' 01:20, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::MDS: It's been used on UESP before, so I suspect it could be used in this case as well.
:::Matt: Typical time is about a week, but if there are no major flaws pointed out and everybody seems to be supporting the idea, I suspect we could wrap it up before then as MDS suggests. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 01:53, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::::Thanks. I'm just making sure that the voting process doesn't end prematurely. --'''[[User:Michaeldsuarez|Michaeldsuarez]] ([[User talk:Michaeldsuarez|Talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Michaeldsuarez|Deeds]])''' 02:12, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
*'''Admin Request''' Can I request that the message currently on top of the roleplaying pages now read- "This page is temporarily locked until [[UESPWiki:Community Portal/Subjective Content|this discussion]] is resolved. In particular, a [[UESPWiki:Community Portal/Subjective Content#Proposal for New Roleplaying System|new system]] has been proposed for the roleplaying pages; anyone is free to vote on this proposal." This should make it easier for people who'd rather not read the whole discussion to know what's going on. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 02:24, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:: Sounds reasonable. I'll change the notice on the pages. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 04:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - A bit worried that it will screw up, but hey, we've at least gotta give a go! :) --[[User:SerCenKing|SerCenKing]] [[User talk:SerCenKing|Talk]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
*<s>'''Support'''</s> Praying to Jygalag (Daedra Lord of Order) that this works out. What do we do if it doesn't though?--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 21:29, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::Get rid of the system first, then unlock everything. I guess everything will go back the way it was, unless another user proposes something else. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 21:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Thinking it about the roleplaying pages might be more Sheogorath's sphere.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 14:26, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
*<s>'''Weak Oppose</s>Support''' - Most of this proposal makes perfect sense to me. My few concerns have to do with details. I think the details need to be ironed out before we implement. '''1:''' I've [[User:GuildKnight/Sandbox/8|sandboxed]] a version of the [[ob:Roleplaying|Roleplaying]] article that seems to be appropriate as this goes live. It makes a few large-scale changes, including a little bit of explanation on the new system and some links. I also trimmed the suggestions down, eliminating anything that wasn't general enough (more specific things can go on users' pages). '''2:''' "At least 10-15 users using this system"? What? What if it's twelve? It should really be a set number, and though I don't like saying "we have to have this many people using it", I'd rather see it at ten. '''3:''' "There is 15-25 complaints and/or problems"? Again, what? What if there's twenty? On this one, though, if in three months we have fifteen ''legitimate'' complaints or issues, it's obviously not working. So, I'd go with fifteen. '''4:''' "If the system breaks rule number 2 before the 3 months, it's over, and we return to what we've been dealing with." I don't like this concept. Problems may come up that we'll be able to resolve, so I'd rather say that: if at the end of the three months, there's fifteen or more valid and legitimate issues that we don't have a solution for, then it would be time to consider other alternatives. <s>If and when these details are clarified, I'll change my vote to "Support".</s> Since my concerns have been addressed, I fully support this proposal. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 18:54, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
*<s>'''Weak Oppose'''</s> Support <s>I agree with the points GK brought up. Also why should there be 15-20 people using it before three months for it to continue?</s>Now that that's done let's move it!--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 19:22, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:JP possibly could have meant by three months, but even that nuber is a bit high. --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 19:24, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::I also support GK's suggestions. I can see why the ranges were given—not to lock it down to specific numbers if we don't feel the system is working—but probably just using the smallest number should be adequate. And her last point about solutions that we can resolve is definitely a good one. Can I suggest we change the original points so we don't get a snowball effect of Opposes over a few guideline tweaks? – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 23:08, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't get the "What if it's twelve" question. 10-15 covers 12. It also covers 11, 13, and 14. I'm probably tired and missing something obvious, though... --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 23:13, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::::Yeah, that took me a second to figure out too. She means, what if instead of being higher than 15, it's a borderline number like 12. If you have 12 with a rule like "at least 10-15", did you make the requirement or not? Better to have a definitive number. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 23:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:::::TAO and AMM: y'all were right, the number of people was high. The reason that was a requirement is because I wanted to know that at least some users would be able to use the system without difficulty.
:::::GK: the details have been officially ironed. I was hoping you would give your expert opinion. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 00:57, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

*<s>'''Oppose''': The high threshold was part of the original proposal and one reason why I voted to support. I object to the terms of the vote being changed after several votes have already been cast. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 19:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)</s>
*'''Comment''': Actually, I'm striking this vote too. I really don't like the way the issue under discussion was changed during the vote, but I'm going back to my original analysis of "I don't care about this". I don't patrol existing roleplays and I won't be patrolling them in the future so I'm going to leave this to people who give a damn. I've made my concerns clear, which is all I can do. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:28, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''': I agree with what Michael has to say. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:47, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Final Wrap-Up==
We are almost right back to where we started with: a problem that's not getting any solution. The only difference is that we have what we're planning on doing. No one has seemed to oppose the procedure of the system, only the details of how we should test the system. The details of this "test drive" are currently too specific to be agreed upon, and maybe even too specific for the system to accurately succeed the test drive. The three things no one has opposed include:
*The system setup,
*The amount of time to give the system for testing (three months),
*That the system ''does'' need testing before being our permanent solution.
And for that reason, the test drive should be a whole different discussion, and preferably a discussion for another day. It's time to start taking action. After looking over the system tonight, I will make the system go live tomorrow. That includes moving the contents of my sandbox to Oblivion:Roleplaying Ideas, adding the messages stated above to their appropriate page, and replacing the roleplaying page with the one set in GK's sandbox. In one month, we can check up on the system, looking for specific things like number of users using it, number of issues that have risen, etc. Then we can decide what requirements the system must meet to be permanent. I feel like if I don't do something now, we'll just keep going in circles -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 01:09, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

:Sounds like a plan. Can I suggest you simply wipe out the current contents of {{tl|RPtoUserspace}} and put in the message that'll appear on the various subpages. That way, if there's a mistake or we decide to change the wording in the future, we only have to change it in one place. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 02:36, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying/Fighter or Warrior

2010-08-24T09:25:27Z

Ninja Hinder: Undo revision 596184 by Ninja Hinder (Talk) Mistake

==Knights of the Nine==

This article was deleted and cut down, and many of the fun suggestions in it was taken away :( {{unsigned|80.167.98.106}}
:As you can see, further down this page is a section dedicated to the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Fighter_or_Warrior#Knight of the Nine|knights of the nine]]. The original article was deleted when th ropleplaying section was in the middle of a major cleanup, and virtually all the information it contained has been merged with other roleplaying articles such sa this one. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] [[User Talk:Volanaro|Talk]] 08:18, 15 February 2009 (EST)

== Revolutionary/ Freedom Fighter ==

These two sections are almost the same thing... they would be better off if they were merged--[[User:Mptrj|Mptrj]] 22:08, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

== Dragon Slayer ==

i say delete this article the only way to do it is with mods on the pc and even then it sounds boring as heck {{Unsigned|72.174.169.195|7 September 2009}}

:While the latter is just personal opinion, I agree with the first part of your argument. The basic activities for this roleplay only include hunting specific monsters. The rest mostly concerns requirements for skill choice and equipment. A roleplay article should cover things you can actually do. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 08:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

-I have a suggestion.
[[User:Doom Knight|Doom Knight]] 00:31, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

== Renrijra Krin Member ==

Has anyone seen the section Renrijra Krin Member? It uses a lot of "I's" and seems like it was written by a ten year old. I don't think it needs to be ''deleted'', but it does need some work. What should we do about it? [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 23:16, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Ehh, it was meant to be humorous. I'm sorry if it failed. I'm a bit older than ten, thanks. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 04:15, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

:I agree that it is a bit too silly to let in remain on the article. I would opt to remove the section. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:33, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::Oh! Sorry Ninja Hinder! I dind't mean to call you a ten year old. Sorry if I offended, no harm was meant :) [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 22:32, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

== Note on removal of Magic Hater ==

My removal of the Magic Hater section of this page was due to the fact that it was misspelled and unclear. however just in case anyone still thinks it's useful I'm working on an alternate section in my sandbox.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|TheAlbinoOrc]] 23:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
:You're unlikely to hear any objections from any of the regular editors for deleting anything on the roleplaying pages. Unless you'd ''really'' like to see the section there, don't worry about it. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 23:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
::Okay I'll stop worrying about it then. Thanks by the way.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|TheAlbinoOrc]] 15:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

== Proposed Deletion of "Soul Reaper" Section ==

Because the Soul Reaper section of the roleplaying page refers to a story existing outside of the world of Tamriel - an anime titled Bleach. As such, I propose that the section be deleted, because it would not be possible to fulfill a role that does not conceptually exist within Tamriel. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 05:04, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

:First off use the tag <nowiki>{{Prod|Reason for deletion}}</nowiki> '''''any''''' time you propose something. Second this doesn't seem like it needs deletion but go ahead and prod the section if you still feel otherwise.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|TheAlbinoOrc]] 18:25, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

:: the {{tl|Prod}} tag is for pages, not sections. I've deleted that idea because the guidelines clearly state "Any roleplaying sub-articles should be Elder Scrolls relevant." [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 09:25, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Oops, I had thought you could do something equivalent to stating what type of image was needed with a Needs Image tag, sorry.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|TheAlbinoOrc]] 18:49, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== Besieger Problems ==

Be sure to have set up supply caches around the area for quick replenishing. Of course, you won't be able to just rely on these. Imagine you're fighting someone. Would you really be able to run away, search through a crate, and reequip yourself in brand new armor while someone is cutting you down? Remember, try to be realistic.
*{{pc22}}It's difficult to get a whole lot of guards to come after you outside of the cities. The [http://www.oblivionmodwiki.com/index.php/Open_Cities Open Cities] mod allows guards to pass through easily., and the Construction Set is very helpful for immersing yourself deeper into being a besieger. If you have it and are moderately able at it then read on...

''Moved from the main page''

Caches- Stick some barrels and crates wherever you feel is good. Of course, in reality you won't just find crates that ''happen'' to be in the exact spot that's most strategic. But who says they were already there? Maybe your comrades put them there in advance...

There's some problems here caches are already mentioned above so which do we keep ? Also whats going on with the seemingly unrelated segment about guards ? In addition to that something may need to be done about further subdividing this page since it's nearly twice what some browsers have problems with.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 19:05, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== Needs Work ==

''Moved from the main page''

===Disgraced Knight===
You were a knight, perhaps of noble descent or one who has earned the sought after title. Your sojourn in prison has showed you the error of your ways and placed you on a path to reformation.

Or, perhaps, you leave prison with no thought for others until an event causes you to rethink the ways that you live. My Kinght for example struck down an Imperial Guardsman in a drunken stupor, giving him an Infamy point. This caused his to repent in his drunkard mannerisms, pray at the local wayshrine, and upon being denied the blessings of the divines thanks to his heinous crimes picked up his sword and set outon his way to redeem himself.

A knight seeking redemption could do tasks for the local cities, whether made up by the player themselves or actual quests or could seek excelence by striving for the highest rank of the Fighter's Guild or by becoming the Divine Crusader reincarnate and striking down Umaril.

The possibilities of this playing style are almost endless. The scenario gives you freedom to join any of the guilds, even the shadier two should your Knight return to his erronous ways upon finally achieving the redemption that he so doggedly sought.

A thought, which I implemented in my Knights role play is to pick up the armour and sword of the dead legionnare and to put it in a place of honour in the knight's home. Perhaps use the sword of your first victim in your final act of redemption. Is that sword around which your regrets centre able to be cleansed by saving the Imperial City? Or perhaps the treachery of the Blackwood Company is cast down at long last by your Knight, clad in the armour and wielding the blade of his shame.

The idea of retirement also comes into this playing style. Afterredeeming himself the knight may choose a quiet life as a blacksmith or as a barkeep or even as a farmer. Or perhaps he decides to intervene in the erronous ways of the scum of Cyrodiil and starts his own team that sets out to stop others making the same mistakes that he made and thus disgracing themselves.

It's a good idea but it needs to be taken out of first person and the spelling fixed.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|Got_a_question?]] 23:13, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

== Ayleid Warrior question ==

On the Ayleid Warrior section it says on the PC you can use the console to make a permanent command humanoid effect. How would you do this? I haven't seen anything on the console page about it. [[User:XShadow187x|XShadow187x]] 18:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Yet Another Moved Section ==

''Moved from the main page''

===Regional Champion===
Race: Depends on region (e.g. Blackwood means use a argonian or Khajitt or Gold Coast means use Breton or redguard)
skills: any you desire
Back Story: In cyrodiil there are multiple regions as shown here [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Regions] You choose a region and become its greatest hero (e.g. a Redguard could choose The gold coast and do all quests clear all dungeons and the such) Get to know all dungeons and villages, however dont overdo the heroics! No mortal could probaly clear 5 ayleid ruins 3 forts and close an oblivion gate and be back for dinner on time. Do about a dungeon every 2 days, 1 day for preparing and the other for resting and celebrating a victory unless you lost of course. You are a servant to your region, always be friends with the count(ess) and pretend that she told you that a certain fort or ruin was a threat to the security of (insert generic name here) and you need to wipe it out. Example, Cyrus the redguard is told by the countess of anvil to clear out fort strand because the marauders there are planning to attack the city. Also there are stages in your life,

1.'''Squire'''
You are beginning your adventure as a lowly squire.You are basically a man servant for the knight you choose.(who you choose should be one of the people in the local fighter's guild hall) Do tasks such as get a book from the store or deliver wepons to the guard. Sometimes he may need you to do something dangerous such as try to get some ingrediants from a cave up north but its infested with goblins,monsters and the such. Time to prove yourself! When you feel the time to end this period has come you have to make up the final task such as clear out a cave of bandits and kill their bandit boss.

2.'''Knight'''
You have been knighted and are ready to serve your region with pride! This is the period where you meet the ruler of your city and swear your sword arm to him or her. Also you must meet a follower who will be your brother in arms. You are regularly charged with clearing the smaller dungeons, delivering messages, and finding and killing devious villains such as a maruder warlord who has gone to far or a certain necromancer who is trying to become a lich. I also recommend that you join the fighter's guild so that you can pretend that its the knight order house and the residents are fellow knights.As before you choose when it ends by doing a final task as a knight.

3.'''Hero'''
You are a hero in the eyes of the people and are adored by them. This is the period where you attain your second follower which should give you 2 followers who are heroes beside you. You are taking on bigger challenges by doing medium level dungeons and protecting the interests of your region.

4.'''Champion'''
The ruler has watched you with interest and has has given you a challenge. You must take on a large dungeon to destroy the greatest threat in the region when you face the boss raise your difficulty slider. When you come back you are greeted the new champion by the people. You are now the leader of the local knight order and can recieve your new house! (imperial city champions just kill pirates and use the captain cabin the booty chest is safe.) You are now the champion and will be forever remembered. But you still have to do tasks for the ruler!

5.'''Retirement'''
Your career has finally ended. The dungeons are silent and you are tired. The time has come for the dissolution of you adventure party. Since you retired you can put 1 as the new knight commander and another as the leader of the local mages or a chapel priest. However this period is about relaxment but the fun isnt over. Always talk to the ruler of the city. every week or so go out in the wilderness to remember your many adventures and memories of the past. But wait you hear a knock on your door. Its a young lad but he looks about ready to explode. He wants to be the new champion and your the one whos going to train him. Take him around show him the ropes and lead him to victory. Always meet with your past followers and remember the glory days when they were invincible. And as you retire you hear there's a portal near bravil. You take a boat and hear the voice of the mad-god call you. Another adventure begins.

While some of the ideas are good the last bit is first-person, and the rest has problems like "This last until level 25-30 you pick".--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 16:55, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
i will edit it as soon as i can. I wasnt logged in when i created it[[User:Kinvalor75|Kinvalor75]] 11:12, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
:Actually hold off on this for now. We may be making a change in policy about these soon since there's a vote at the [[UESPWiki:Community Portal#Roleplaying_to_Userspace|CP]]--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 17:56, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paladin ==

I am trying to start a paladin section, but i need some help to meet the recuirements. i have created the class/birthsign/morale combination and will post them here. If you are able to create a good page please feel free to use the info.

Class: Strenght and Endurance. Combat. Heavy Armor, Blade, Blunt, Block, Restoration, Alteration and Alchemy.

Race: Any race will do, but will behave a little different or worship different gods. The imperials would devote themselves to Talos and the Nine, but an orc would rather worship Malacath, while the dark elf may worship the Tribunal gods like Vivec, Sortha Sil and Almalexia.

Birthsign: The Ritual. You can heal with the aid of the gods and turn the undead. Those abilitis combined with strong melee ability define the paladin.

Morale: Help the unfortunate and the lawful. You are a defender of good and your main enemy are the undead and demons. Join the Figthers guild: you are a fighter. And throw in the Mages guild too: you must master your magic to fight the evils of this world. And join the diferent knight orders, they need the help. Dont join the "bad" guilds for assasins and thieves. they are unjust and need to be destroyed. Kill Lachance and try to hunt down the members of the Dark Brotherhood, but dont just kill them. You need proof that they are assasins. The same goes with the Thieves guild. Dont take money for helping the poor or unfortunate, you just add to their problems. A paladin are willing to go unrewarded rather than having a person give you more than they can aford.

Other: Create a "Paladin" order and enchant a signetring bearing its name. That is your connection to the rest of the order. You are the only one in Cyrodiil/Tamriel or you are working with an undercover agent. Creare your own ranks and advance. you dont start as the highest rank.
Sugestion: The Brotherhood of the Silver Sword. Highest rank: High Paladin. Lead by a council of five high paladins. High rank: Senior Paladin. You give orders and do highrisk missions for the order. Mid rank: Field Paladin. You are a soldier of the order, taking order and following them. Low rank: Initiate. You are new in the order and havent been given any duties yet. You spend your time training your skills.
You should also create a spell who fortify your stats like strenght, speed and endurance to have it as a "godly aid" in combat.
Armor sugestion: steel cuirass and greaves, and mithril boots, gauntlets, shield and helmet. Enchant it with defensive abilities like shield and resist. Fortify magica and health, they are your primare concern. Even though the mithril armor are light they fit with the paladins "good" alingment as they are silver and gold. Call your armor something like "Blessed armor of the Defender" or something like that, but dont call your whole armor that. instead of defender you should have different names for different bodyparts.
Weapon should be either two-handed or weapon-and-shield. Choose according to your playstyle. Enchant your waepon and give it a name like "Hammer of the Avenger" or something like that.--[[User:Tdroid|Tdroid]] 11:43, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying/Fighter or Warrior

2010-08-24T09:23:26Z

Ninja Hinder: Undo revision 596129 by Tdroid (Talk) Unnecessary

==Knights of the Nine==

This article was deleted and cut down, and many of the fun suggestions in it was taken away :( {{unsigned|80.167.98.106}}
:As you can see, further down this page is a section dedicated to the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Fighter_or_Warrior#Knight of the Nine|knights of the nine]]. The original article was deleted when th ropleplaying section was in the middle of a major cleanup, and virtually all the information it contained has been merged with other roleplaying articles such sa this one. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] [[User Talk:Volanaro|Talk]] 08:18, 15 February 2009 (EST)

== Revolutionary/ Freedom Fighter ==

These two sections are almost the same thing... they would be better off if they were merged--[[User:Mptrj|Mptrj]] 22:08, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

== Dragon Slayer ==

i say delete this article the only way to do it is with mods on the pc and even then it sounds boring as heck {{Unsigned|72.174.169.195|7 September 2009}}

:While the latter is just personal opinion, I agree with the first part of your argument. The basic activities for this roleplay only include hunting specific monsters. The rest mostly concerns requirements for skill choice and equipment. A roleplay article should cover things you can actually do. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 08:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

-I have a suggestion.
[[User:Doom Knight|Doom Knight]] 00:31, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

== Renrijra Krin Member ==

Has anyone seen the section Renrijra Krin Member? It uses a lot of "I's" and seems like it was written by a ten year old. I don't think it needs to be ''deleted'', but it does need some work. What should we do about it? [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 23:16, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Ehh, it was meant to be humorous. I'm sorry if it failed. I'm a bit older than ten, thanks. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 04:15, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

:I agree that it is a bit too silly to let in remain on the article. I would opt to remove the section. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:33, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::Oh! Sorry Ninja Hinder! I dind't mean to call you a ten year old. Sorry if I offended, no harm was meant :) [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 22:32, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

== Note on removal of Magic Hater ==

My removal of the Magic Hater section of this page was due to the fact that it was misspelled and unclear. however just in case anyone still thinks it's useful I'm working on an alternate section in my sandbox.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|TheAlbinoOrc]] 23:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
:You're unlikely to hear any objections from any of the regular editors for deleting anything on the roleplaying pages. Unless you'd ''really'' like to see the section there, don't worry about it. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 23:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
::Okay I'll stop worrying about it then. Thanks by the way.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|TheAlbinoOrc]] 15:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

== Proposed Deletion of "Soul Reaper" Section ==

Because the Soul Reaper section of the roleplaying page refers to a story existing outside of the world of Tamriel - an anime titled Bleach. As such, I propose that the section be deleted, because it would not be possible to fulfill a role that does not conceptually exist within Tamriel. [[User:Darkdoom227|Darkdoom227]] 05:04, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

:First off use the tag <nowiki>{{Prod|Reason for deletion}}</nowiki> '''''any''''' time you propose something. Second this doesn't seem like it needs deletion but go ahead and prod the section if you still feel otherwise.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|TheAlbinoOrc]] 18:25, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

:: the {{tl|Prod}} tag is for pages, not sections. I've deleted that idea because the guidelines clearly state "Any roleplaying sub-articles should be Elder Scrolls relevant." [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 09:25, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Oops, I had thought you could do something equivalent to stating what type of image was needed with a Needs Image tag, sorry.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|TheAlbinoOrc]] 18:49, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== Besieger Problems ==

Be sure to have set up supply caches around the area for quick replenishing. Of course, you won't be able to just rely on these. Imagine you're fighting someone. Would you really be able to run away, search through a crate, and reequip yourself in brand new armor while someone is cutting you down? Remember, try to be realistic.
*{{pc22}}It's difficult to get a whole lot of guards to come after you outside of the cities. The [http://www.oblivionmodwiki.com/index.php/Open_Cities Open Cities] mod allows guards to pass through easily., and the Construction Set is very helpful for immersing yourself deeper into being a besieger. If you have it and are moderately able at it then read on...

''Moved from the main page''

Caches- Stick some barrels and crates wherever you feel is good. Of course, in reality you won't just find crates that ''happen'' to be in the exact spot that's most strategic. But who says they were already there? Maybe your comrades put them there in advance...

There's some problems here caches are already mentioned above so which do we keep ? Also whats going on with the seemingly unrelated segment about guards ? In addition to that something may need to be done about further subdividing this page since it's nearly twice what some browsers have problems with.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']] 19:05, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== Needs Work ==

''Moved from the main page''

===Disgraced Knight===
You were a knight, perhaps of noble descent or one who has earned the sought after title. Your sojourn in prison has showed you the error of your ways and placed you on a path to reformation.

Or, perhaps, you leave prison with no thought for others until an event causes you to rethink the ways that you live. My Kinght for example struck down an Imperial Guardsman in a drunken stupor, giving him an Infamy point. This caused his to repent in his drunkard mannerisms, pray at the local wayshrine, and upon being denied the blessings of the divines thanks to his heinous crimes picked up his sword and set outon his way to redeem himself.

A knight seeking redemption could do tasks for the local cities, whether made up by the player themselves or actual quests or could seek excelence by striving for the highest rank of the Fighter's Guild or by becoming the Divine Crusader reincarnate and striking down Umaril.

The possibilities of this playing style are almost endless. The scenario gives you freedom to join any of the guilds, even the shadier two should your Knight return to his erronous ways upon finally achieving the redemption that he so doggedly sought.

A thought, which I implemented in my Knights role play is to pick up the armour and sword of the dead legionnare and to put it in a place of honour in the knight's home. Perhaps use the sword of your first victim in your final act of redemption. Is that sword around which your regrets centre able to be cleansed by saving the Imperial City? Or perhaps the treachery of the Blackwood Company is cast down at long last by your Knight, clad in the armour and wielding the blade of his shame.

The idea of retirement also comes into this playing style. Afterredeeming himself the knight may choose a quiet life as a blacksmith or as a barkeep or even as a farmer. Or perhaps he decides to intervene in the erronous ways of the scum of Cyrodiil and starts his own team that sets out to stop others making the same mistakes that he made and thus disgracing themselves.

It's a good idea but it needs to be taken out of first person and the spelling fixed.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|Got_a_question?]] 23:13, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

== Ayleid Warrior question ==

On the Ayleid Warrior section it says on the PC you can use the console to make a permanent command humanoid effect. How would you do this? I haven't seen anything on the console page about it. [[User:XShadow187x|XShadow187x]] 18:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Yet Another Moved Section ==

''Moved from the main page''

===Regional Champion===
Race: Depends on region (e.g. Blackwood means use a argonian or Khajitt or Gold Coast means use Breton or redguard)
skills: any you desire
Back Story: In cyrodiil there are multiple regions as shown here [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Regions] You choose a region and become its greatest hero (e.g. a Redguard could choose The gold coast and do all quests clear all dungeons and the such) Get to know all dungeons and villages, however dont overdo the heroics! No mortal could probaly clear 5 ayleid ruins 3 forts and close an oblivion gate and be back for dinner on time. Do about a dungeon every 2 days, 1 day for preparing and the other for resting and celebrating a victory unless you lost of course. You are a servant to your region, always be friends with the count(ess) and pretend that she told you that a certain fort or ruin was a threat to the security of (insert generic name here) and you need to wipe it out. Example, Cyrus the redguard is told by the countess of anvil to clear out fort strand because the marauders there are planning to attack the city. Also there are stages in your life,

1.'''Squire'''
You are beginning your adventure as a lowly squire.You are basically a man servant for the knight you choose.(who you choose should be one of the people in the local fighter's guild hall) Do tasks such as get a book from the store or deliver wepons to the guard. Sometimes he may need you to do something dangerous such as try to get some ingrediants from a cave up north but its infested with goblins,monsters and the such. Time to prove yourself! When you feel the time to end this period has come you have to make up the final task such as clear out a cave of bandits and kill their bandit boss.

2.'''Knight'''
You have been knighted and are ready to serve your region with pride! This is the period where you meet the ruler of your city and swear your sword arm to him or her. Also you must meet a follower who will be your brother in arms. You are regularly charged with clearing the smaller dungeons, delivering messages, and finding and killing devious villains such as a maruder warlord who has gone to far or a certain necromancer who is trying to become a lich. I also recommend that you join the fighter's guild so that you can pretend that its the knight order house and the residents are fellow knights.As before you choose when it ends by doing a final task as a knight.

3.'''Hero'''
You are a hero in the eyes of the people and are adored by them. This is the period where you attain your second follower which should give you 2 followers who are heroes beside you. You are taking on bigger challenges by doing medium level dungeons and protecting the interests of your region.

4.'''Champion'''
The ruler has watched you with interest and has has given you a challenge. You must take on a large dungeon to destroy the greatest threat in the region when you face the boss raise your difficulty slider. When you come back you are greeted the new champion by the people. You are now the leader of the local knight order and can recieve your new house! (imperial city champions just kill pirates and use the captain cabin the booty chest is safe.) You are now the champion and will be forever remembered. But you still have to do tasks for the ruler!

5.'''Retirement'''
Your career has finally ended. The dungeons are silent and you are tired. The time has come for the dissolution of you adventure party. Since you retired you can put 1 as the new knight commander and another as the leader of the local mages or a chapel priest. However this period is about relaxment but the fun isnt over. Always talk to the ruler of the city. every week or so go out in the wilderness to remember your many adventures and memories of the past. But wait you hear a knock on your door. Its a young lad but he looks about ready to explode. He wants to be the new champion and your the one whos going to train him. Take him around show him the ropes and lead him to victory. Always meet with your past followers and remember the glory days when they were invincible. And as you retire you hear there's a portal near bravil. You take a boat and hear the voice of the mad-god call you. Another adventure begins.

While some of the ideas are good the last bit is first-person, and the rest has problems like "This last until level 25-30 you pick".--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 16:55, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
i will edit it as soon as i can. I wasnt logged in when i created it[[User:Kinvalor75|Kinvalor75]] 11:12, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
:Actually hold off on this for now. We may be making a change in policy about these soon since there's a vote at the [[UESPWiki:Community Portal#Roleplaying_to_Userspace|CP]]--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''TheAlbinoOrc''']][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|any_questions?]] 17:56, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== Paladin ==

I am trying to start a paladin section, but i need some help to meet the recuirements. i have created the class/birthsign/morale combination and will post them here. If you are able to create a good page please feel free to use the info.

Class: Strenght and Endurance. Combat. Heavy Armor, Blade, Blunt, Block, Restoration, Alteration and Alchemy.

Race: Any race will do, but will behave a little different or worship different gods.

Birthsign: The Ritual. You can heal with the aid of the gods and turn the undead. Those abilitis combined with strong melee ability define the paladin.

Morale: Help the unfortunate and the lawful. You are a defender of good and your main enemy are the undead and demons. Join the Figthers guild: you are a fighter. And throw in the Mages guild too: you must master your magic to fight the evils of this world. And join the diferent knight orders, they need the help. Dont join the "bad" guilds for assasins and thieves. they are unjust and need to be destroyed. Kill Lachance and try to hunt down the members of the Dark Brotherhood, but dont just kill them. You need proof that they are assasins. The same goes with the Thieves guild. Dont take money for helping the poor or unfortunate, you just add to their problems. A paladin are willing to go unrewarded rather than having a person give you more than they can aford.

Other: Create a "Paladin" order and enchant a signetring bearing its name. That is your connection to the rest of the order. You are the only one in Cyrodiil/Tamriel or you are working with an undercover agent. Creare your own ranks and advance. you dont start as the highest rank.
Sugestion: The Brotherhood of the Silver Sword. Highest rank: High Paladin. Lead by a council of five high paladins. High rank: Senior Paladin. You give orders and do highrisk missions for the order. Mid rank: Field Paladin. You are a soldier of the order, taking order and following them. Low rank: Initiate. You are new in the order and havent been given any duties yet. You spend your time training your skills.
You should also create a spell who fortify your stats like strenght, speed and endurance to have it as a "godly aid" in combat.
Armor sugestion: steel cuirass and greaves, and mithril boots, gauntlets, shield and helmet. Enchant it with defensive abilities like shield and resist. Fortify magica and health, they are your primare concern. Even though the mithril armor are light they fit with the paladins "good" alingment as they are silver and gold. Call your armor something like "Blessed armor of the Defender" or something like that, but dont call your whole armor that. instead of defender you should have different names for different bodyparts.
Weapon should be either two-handed or weapon-and-shield. Choose according to your playstyle. Enchant your waepon and give it a name like "Hammer of the Avenger" or something like that.--[[User:Tdroid|Tdroid]] 11:43, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion:Roleplaying

2010-06-17T22:30:48Z

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'''Roleplaying''' is an optional way of playing the game, that can range from a brief diversion to a full overhaul of the game. By playing as if your character has a personality and preferences beyond the game's basic statistics, you can add additional depth and interest. At a basic level, many players will give their characters some sort of backstory explaining who the character is. Beyond that, you can choose to incorporate limitations that make gameplay more realistic or more challenging, as detailed in [[#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]]. Or you can [[#Character Type Roleplaying|model your character]] after any favorite person, real or fictional.

==Increased Realism==
There are a wide variety of ideas for how to make the game more realistic, that can be used alone or combined based upon your preferences. PC players can enhance many of these ideas by adding various third-party mods.

===Traveling===
* Slow down! You don't need to run/jump everywhere. Take a walk in the forests, pray at the chapel or go to the local inn and relax.
* Only travel in good weather. And if you must travel when it is raining, wear a hood and robe, or fur armor if it's snowing, as if to protect yourself from the elements. If you have to travel in rain, run or find a camp or cave to wait out the storm.
* If you come across a village, don't keep going. Unless you're doing something important, stop by. See how the livestock are doing or maybe a townsperson's sword was stolen by bandits. Go fetch it from a ruin and return it by putting it in his house.
* Spend nights in inns or taverns. If you are caught in the wilderness at night, stop by the side of road as if you were camping for the night.
* Use a staff when in the wilderness, like a walking stick.
** If you do run while you travel, take the occasional rest.
* For players who consider '''[[Oblivion:Getting Around#Fast Travel|Fast Travel]]''' to be unrealistic, its use can be avoided or eliminated altogether.
** Spending more time journeying across [[Oblivion:Cyrodiil|Cyrodiil]] can greatly enhance the aesthetic appeal of Oblivion; some of the lesser traveled places are stunningly beautiful.
** Choose to allow fast travel only once you reach a certain level.
** [[Oblivion:Enchanting|Enchant]] a [[Oblivion:Clothing#Necklace|necklace]] so you can name it, for example, Amulet of Teleportation. "Use" the amulet when you want to fast travel. Place limitations on its use (number of uses before recharging; procedure necessary to recharge it).
** Limit fast travel to only be possible between cities (like in [[Morrowind:Morrowind|Morrowind]]) and give someone a little bit of money as a "fee" to take you to the other city, or bribe a mage as your fee for him to teleport you to a nearby city.
** Only allow fast travel along waterways, as if you hired a shipmaster to carry you by boat. Your origin point must be a harbor or dock; you must walk by foot to reach the shore. There must be a continuous water route between origin and destination. For example, you can Fast-Travel from the [[Oblivion:Imperial City#Waterfront|Imperial City Waterfront]] to [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]] or [[Oblivion:Leyawiin|Leyawiin]], but not to [[Oblivion:Anvil|Anvil]].
** Only use fast travel once a week, or once a day.
** Or download the [[Oblivion:Wizard's Tower|Wizard's Tower]] DLC and use the Mages Guild Portals in [[Oblivion:Frostcrag Spire (place)|Frostcrag Spire]] to get to the different cities via their Mages Guilds.
* Use your '''map and compass''' more realistically
**Use your map only when you are sheltered. If it is raining or snowing, your map could get soaked and most likely ruined.
**Avoid relying on the quest marker (the red or green arrow in your compass and the red or green icons on maps) when traveling to a location.
*** Don't make the quest active in the first place. As long as no quest is active there will be no compass arrow.
*** Or you can "disable" the arrow by: selecting a quest other than the one you are working on (quest arrows will appear but you can just ignore them); activating a quest with no specific destination (for example, [[Oblivion:A Venerable Vintage|A Venerable Vintage]] or the [[Oblivion:Seeking Your Roots|Seeking Your Roots]] quest which is more of a long-term quest.), which will remove the quest arrow; or you can finish a quest and not select a new Active Quest. The only drawback to the last option is that it's possible for an Active Quest to be selected for you if any one of your Current Quests receives an update.
*** PC owners can use one of the horse location mods, such as [http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3861/ Dude, Where's My Horse], so the arrow and marker will just point at your horse.)
** When traveling on the roads, don't look at your map. Actually look at the signposts by the side of the road to find the towns and cities.
** When traveling to a place unknown to you, don't look at your map. Head in the general direction of the location, then ask for directions when you get closer to your destination or get lost. If an NPC can provide directions, follow those directions. Or else look at your map after talking to an NPC to get a set of directions, equivalent to what the NPC might have said.
***Example: If you're in the [[Oblivion:Great Forest|Great Forest]] having trouble finding [[Oblivion:Shadeleaf Copse|Shadeleaf Copse]], walk or ride to [[Oblivion:Skingrad|Skingrad]], or to the [[Oblivion:Gold Road|Gold Road]], and speak to someone. Assume you have asked them for directions. Look at your map and remember the location. Don't look at your map again until you get the "You have found Shadeleaf Copse" message, or you ask someone else. For example, you might get lost again and stumble upon [[Oblivion:Brindle Home|Brindle Home]], where you can ask directions again.
***You may decide that only certain people will be able to give you directions, such as guards, as not everyone will know where everything is. A traveling merchant, for example, would be able to give you directions to towns, villages and inns, but not mines and ruins.
***If you think the person you're asking might only have a vague idea where the place is, don't look at the map when you talk to them, but re-select the related Quest instead. Look at where the compass marker is pointing, de-select the Quest, and head off in that direction. This is as if you were told "I'm not sure, but I think it's over that way."
*When entering a dungeon, do not simply charge straight through and run through hordes of dangerous monsters in attempt to reach the target destination, indicated by the green arrow. Realistically, when entering a dark and unknown cave, you would not have a pre-made map that would assist you and tell you where to go. You'd carry a torch and walk slowly, on the lookout for monsters.
*{{Pc22}} [http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=2000 The Modular Oblivion Enhanced mod] provides more realistic traveling.

===Horses===
Take care of your [[Oblivion:Horses|horse]] more realistically.
* Always leave your horse at a stable, in its paddock
** When entering and leaving the stables, get off your horse, open the gate, ride it in, then close it behind you after you get off - don't just jump over the fence.
** Make sure your horse has adequate shelter.
** Chat with the proprietor and tell them to take extra good care of your horse and bribe him as payment.
** Place a basket containing [[Oblivion:Carrot|carrots]] or [[Oblivion:Apple|apples]] on the ground by your horse.
** Tell a [[Oblivion:Followers|follower]] to wait next to your horse to care for your horse while you are gone.
* When riding, take your horse's [[Oblivion:Fatigue|fatigue]] and [[Oblivion:Health|Health]] into account
** Don't run nonstop straight between cities through the middle of the wilderness, jumping over boulders, running into trees, and swimming across lakes.
** When possible, stick to the roads.
** Slow down when your horse is exhausted or hurt by a [[Oblivion:Bandit|bandit]] or [[Oblivion:Animals|animal]].
** Only run full speed when you are attacked or urgently need to get somewhere.
* On the PC, you may use the [[Oblivion:console|console]] to give your equine friend a unique name.

===Eating===
Although it is not necessary, eating regularly is an easy way to enhance roleplaying.
* Eat three meals a day at the appropriate times (or less if you are poor). Breakfast should consist of grains, rice, bread or fruit. Lunch can be more bread, fruit, and vegetables. Save the meat and potatoes for dinner, along with your character's preferred alcoholic beverage.
**Once you have eaten, wait for one hour to show it takes time to actually eat--you haven't just instantly eaten your meal.
* Eat types of food appropriate for your character's position.
** For example, if you are a noble eat [[Oblivion:Shepherd's Pie|Shepherd's Pie]] and drink rare or expensive beverages.
* Cook your food by placing food over a fire, preferably using a bowl or other container.
** Though the game does not have any diseases that discourage eating food raw, your character could be affected if he decides to eat raw meat, for example by becoming sick.
** If you find yourself a long way away from a house or an inn, then gather some nearby natural ingredients. Seeds, flowers and other things could make a healthy meal.
* Lay out your food on the table:
** Set out a plate of food, with silverware (spoon, knife, fork) and cup or goblet.
** On top of a plate, place a [[Oblivion:Tobacco|tobacco leaf]] and on top of this a piece of [[Oblivion:Ham|Ham]] (It's flat and stays on the plate well, as opposed to [[Oblivion:Mutton|Mutton]]).
** Add [[Oblivion:Potato|potatoes]] and [[Oblivion:Sweetroll|sweetroll]]s to your plate.
** Add vegetables such as [[Oblivion:Radish|radish]], [[Oblivion:Onion|onion]], [[Oblivion:Carrot|carrot]] or [[Oblivion:Tomato|tomato]].
** Have a fruit bowl containing [[Oblivion:Strawberry|strawberries]], [[Oblivion:Orange|oranges]], [[Oblivion:Apple|apples]], [[Oblivion:Grapes|grapes]], or [[Oblivion:Pear|pears]].
** Create a cheese plate with [[Oblivion:Cheese Wedge|cheese wedges]] and a [[Oblivion:Bread Loaf|bread loaf]].
** You may want to have a [[Oblivion:Sweetroll|Sweetroll]] or [[Oblivion:Sweetcake|Sweetcake]] for dessert.
* Sit down in a chair when you eat.
* Eat out at the local inn. Many citizens gather at the inns around 9:00 PM, giving your character the chance to socialize after a long day.
* Tip the barman if you had a particularly good meal at an inn by bribing him.
* For drinking, you can mix ingredients such as apples, pears, and berries and call the potion "Fruit Juice". You could also find a lake or stream to "drink" from (crouch/sneak down by the water to imitate drinking).
* Carry around cups, cutlery, and plates with you when traveling so you can eat your food
*{{Pc22}} Make yourself have to eat with a mod like [http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13964 Real Hunger v1.6 Beta].
* Use alchemy to prepare your meals. For example, for breakfast combine a bread loaf, some cheese and maybe an apple. You can name it breakfast or whatever meal you've just "prepared". Then drink the resulting potion and remain seated for the duration of the effect, to roleplay the time it takes to eat.

===Sleeping===
* Sleep in a home appropriate for your role. If you can't afford a [[Oblivion:Houses|house]] (or do not want one), rent a room at an [[Oblivion:Inns|inn]] or find a bedroll. Also, rent a room when you are visiting a city.
* Put your armor in the cupboards, put your sword on the bed next to you, etc, before you sleep. Why go to bed wearing metal armor pajamas?
* Place a drink or a book on the bedside table.
* Have a pair of pajamas that you change into at night like shirt and pants
* Read a [[Oblivion:Books|book]] before going to bed, like you fell asleep reading
* Make a damage fatigue 100 points for 2 seconds on self spell for when you go to bed, stand on your bed and use it (usually twice for high level characters), this will knock you out and then you can press Sleep or Wait and when the Wait or Sleep screen ends you will get up.
** To make this more realistic, you can drink a lot of [[Oblivion:Mead|mead]] or [[Oblivion:Cheap Wine|wine]] and then cast the spell. Then it will look like you passed out from getting drunk!
* When you level up, don't just find the first bedroll on the city, relax first. Treat your self to some ale or wine and a good meal. Sleep in a nice bed (don't sleep in an "abandoned shack").

===Houses===
* Set level caps for houses. Maybe buy the shack in the [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]] when you reach level 5, Benirus Manor at level 15, and buy [[Oblivion:Rosethorn Hall|Rosethorn Hall]] at level 30.
* On the PC, you can [[Oblivion:Lock|lock]] your door with console commands every time you leave.
* Take off your shoes when you enter your house.
* There are many options for decorating your house:
** Fill the house by adding piles of books that you are reading, bottles of ale, food, silverware, weapons and armor. Fill wine cases with wine; place books on bookshelves.
** Place decorative armor (e.g. [[Oblivion:Imperial Dragon Armor|Imperial Dragon Armor]]) on some of the shelves.
**If you are a mage put potions and scrolls everywhere.
** Place appropriate items on your desk: [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Quill|quill]], [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Parchment|parchment]], a book, [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Crumpled Paper|crumpled paper]], a [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Weight|weight]] as a paperweight, an [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Inkwell|inkwell]], or an [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Hourglass|hourglass]].
** Set up the kitchen area as if [[Oblivion:Ingredients|food]] is being prepared. A [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Ladle|ladle]] in a [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Pot|pot]] or [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Bowl|bowl]]. Place ingredients in baskets or bowls.
** Create displays that commemorate your adventures, for example by showcasing items representing animals or people you have conquered: a [[Oblivion:Minotaur Horn|minotaur horn]] in a display case or a Daedric Artifact on a shelf.
** Rosethorn Hall contains many display cases and shelves that can be filled with your trophies or favorite weapons. Or fill a display case with all the jewels you find.
** If you own a nice home (Benirus Manor, Arborwatch, Rosethorn, Battlehorn Castle, etc.) put Cyrodiilic Brandy on shelf's as most nobles do.
* Flag your storage chests to give you a hint as to what they contain. Leave your favorite weapon atop your weapons chest, a [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Pickaxe|pickaxe]] over the crate where you keep your [[Oblivion:Varla Stone|Varla]], [[Oblivion:Welkynd Stone|Welkynd]], and [[Oblivion:Sigil Stone|Sigil Stones]], etc.
* Have a butler in the manors. Get a [[Oblivion:Followers|follower]] and tell him/her to wait by the door and greet you when you come home.
* Station the [[Oblivion:Adoring Fan|Adoring Fan]] outside so he lights up the doorway with his torch at night.

===Equipment===
* Try playing the game using a realistic limit for the amount of items your character can carry. Ensure that you are never carrying more than one set of [[Oblivion:Clothing|clothes]] and [[Oblivion:Armor|armor]], a melee [[Oblivion:Weapons|weapon]] and/or [[Oblivion:Weapons#Bow|bow]] and [[Oblivion:Weapons#Arrows|arrows]], a few [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Lockpick|lockpicks]], one [[Oblivion:Miscellaneous Items#Repair Hammer|repair hammer]], and perhaps a single [[Oblivion:Potions|potion]]. If you need to transport more items than a person could realistically carry, use a horse.
* Wear clothing appropriate to the circumstances:
** Wear fur armor/long sleeves when in snowy areas; wear sandals and lightweight clothes (i.e. short-sleeved or sleeveless shirts) in warm areas.
** Wear a hood and/or a long sleeved shirt when it's raining.
** Wear nothing when swimming.
** Wear simple clothes without shoes when sleeping.
** Only have armor with you when going into combat.
* Take off your armor and replace it with casual clothes when you're in towns. Put it back on when you're ready to go adventuring.
* If you use a shield in combat, equip a two-handed weapon or a bow when in towns so that you can use both hands without your shield getting in the way.
* Don't wear the best gear that you can find but instead try for something that suits your character. Pick weapons that are appropriate. Some examples:
** Knights typically wear human-made armor and weapons (no Daedric, Orcish, Elven or Dwarven). Knights often lived their lives with only one weapon; if you want to swap weapons, break your current one and give it a place of honor. Also remember your roleplay, a starving peasant would not use ebony gear and a powerful warlord would not use iron.
** Thieves wear dark [[Oblivion:Clothing|clothing]] or suitable [[Oblivion:Light Armor|light armor]] such as leather. For a weapon, use a shortsword or a dagger, with a bow to strike from a distance. Thieves don't use poisons as much as an assassin would.
** Assassins can wear the Dark Brotherhood [[Oblivion:Shrouded Armor|Shrouded Armor]], Black Hand robes, or the Morag Tong Armor set (from the [[Oblivion:Mehrunes Razor|Mehrune's Razor]] [[Oblivion:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]]). An assassin who is not a member of the Dark Brotherhood or Morag Tong can use the same gear as a thief, above. Use daggers, shortswords and bows loaded with poisons to take out enemies.
** Mages wear robes, and possibly matching hoods. Carry a staff and a dagger in case of close combat.

===Combat===
* Simulate damage from combat beyond simply losing health.
** Rest after a fight so you are prepared for your next encounter.
** After a major battle or after catching a [[Oblivion:Disease|disease]], take several days to gradually heal. Slowly allow yourself to do more physically demanding activities.
** Have injuries consistent with the situation. When hit by arrows, assume the body part struck by the arrow is injured.
** If your leg has been damaged, you need to walk rather than run. You can represent limping by toggling sneak mode on and off.
** If your arm is injured, you may not be able to wield a weapon until healed. Or if your shield arm was injured, you have to fight without a shield, or switch to a one-handed instead of two-handed weapon.
** If your head is injured, you might want to use less powerful or simpler spells, or not cast spells altogether, as they require attention and focus.
* Set additional limits on your character's health. Force yourself to reload the last save game if your health falls below a certain level, or if you are hit by more than a given number of arrows.
* When combat is too difficult, you might be scared and run instead of fighting. Perhaps after getting injured you become scared and flee.
*You wouldn't change your body armor during a battle realistically. For instance, if you have steel boots on and want to use your enchanted boots to enhance combat ability, don't. You wouldn't be able to slip off your boots and put on new ones while being attacked by a mountain lion, would you?

===Memorials===
If you become attached to the NPCs in the game, you can pay homage to them after they die.
* Place the NPC's robes/cuirass and/or sword in a corner of your house, surrounded by lit torches.
** Rename the items (by enchanting them, for example) to name them after the NPC who used them.
* Collect [[Oblivion:Viranus Donton|Viranus Donton]]'s armor and sword from Forsaken Mine. Put them in a display case at the Chorrol Fighters Guild or return them to his mother [[Oblivion:Vilena Donton|Vilena Donton]], for example by placing them on her desk. Add troll fat, an item of Blackwood Company armor, or an item of Eduard's armor to the memorial.
* Take the Akaviri blades of any Blades who fall in combat (including Jauffre and Baurus) and place them in [[Oblivion:Cloud Ruler Temple|Cloud Ruler Temple]].
* Conduct a memorial ceremony, for example by shooting a flame arrow into the sky just outside the temple.
* Scatter flowers and torches where someone died.
* Use the weapons or armor of fallen NPCs when avenging their death. For example, use [[Oblivion:Hannibal Traven|Hannibal Traven]]'s staff and robe when confronting [[Oblivion:Mannimarco|Mannimarco]]; use [[Oblivion:Volanaro|Volanaro's]] Summon Dremora Lord spell, too.
* Straighten out a fallen ally's (or opponent's) body (folding the arms if possible) and place the body in a peaceful location. If he or she died in the water, drag the corpse onto land, possibly a meadow of flowers, and perhaps leave a flower next to the body.
* If near a fire, cremate the body by dragging it in.

You can also honor your fallen enemies, in particular if they fought honorably (unlike assassins, bandits, or thieves).
* Take their armor only to upgrade your own, not for profit.
* Leave their weapon next to their body to symbolize that they died honorably.
* If dealing with someone like a Pirate, either drag them onto their ship or into the sea and let them float.
* If someone such as a Dark Brotherhood Follower dies, hide the corpse and clothes so no one can learn anything of the Dark Brotherhood's enchanted armour.
* An ironic twist would be to have a black soul gem with you when fighting Mannimarco, and soultrap him before he dies. You could then store Mannimarco's soul in your Archmage's nightstand.

===Miscellaneous===
* Give your character a personality with preferred foods, activities, and clothes. What creature or race does he/she hate/like the most?
* Do not reload your last save game after making a mistake, such as killing someone accidentally. Continue playing and live with the consequences of the mistake.
* Bathe periodically by taking off your clothes and swimming. Wash your clothes, too, by dropping them in the water. For more realism, drop them in a sunny place and wait for them to dry; if it's cloudy, wait a bit longer.
* Read ''[[Oblivion:The Firmament|The Firmament]]'' to determine which month your character was born in (though those with the [[Oblivion:Birthsigns#Serpent|Serpent birthsign]] may find this impossible). Choose a day in that month to be your birthday and celebrate it.
* Use [[Oblivion:Followers|Followers]] as bodyguards, friends or colleagues.
** Tell your followers to wait in a place where they would actually stay (Inn, bar, guild hall etc.)
** If you are on the PC, use console commands to give them names. "Dark Brotherhood Murderer" and "Adoring Fan" do not seem like realistic names.
* Put a realistic limit on how much gear can go into a container. How can you put seven sets of armor a war ax and six tower shields into one chest. Take the size of the item into context, a war staff cannot be put into a lectern but maybe in your hunting closet. Also your desk should not contain weapons and armor even if it would fit. Inkwells, books, and maybe a dagger is good though.
* Adjust the difficulty slider based on your gameplay preferences.
** If you think sneak attacks or power attacks should be able to kill enemies with a single blow, push the difficulty slider to the left.
** If you think fights with bears and wolves should be desperate struggles for survival, push the difficulty slider to the right.
* If you're roleplaying that you're in a specific club or group, dress yourself up and use the console command "createfullactorcopy" to make it seem your club has members.
**Use console command "setactorfullname "Name"" to give members unique names.
**You can go go even further with this technique by using the ShowRaceMenu, ShowBirthsignMenu, and ShowClassMenu commands, then copying yourself. This gives your group more of a variety in appearance and skills.
* Use mods that increase the game immersion, for example, mods that take the Health, Magicka, and Fatigue bars off the screen, or remove the compass.
* Play the game according to your chosen race:
** Try to only use skills that your race favors (e.g., skills for which your race has positive modifiers).
** Only deal with merchants of your race, and generally try to help NPCs of your race.
** Use appropriate equipment (Orcs use Orcish; Elves use Elven; etc.)
* If you are roleplaying a job for which you should be paid, you can receive your pay in multiple ways:
** Pickpocket your pay from the person you're dealing with.
** [[Oblivion:Glitches#Arrow Duplication Glitch|Duplicate]] items to then sell for your pay
*** Duplicate items relevant to your job. If you're a Vineyard Helper, duplicate wine or grapes; if you're a Mage's Apprentice, duplicate soul gems, etc.
** {{pc22}} On the PC you can also use the console to collect your pay.
* When you take a book from a guild's library, you have a week to read it before it must be returned. Bribe members in the area for overdue fees.
** If you want to keep a book from a guild's library, take it to "[[Oblivion:The Black Horse Courier|The Black Horse Courier]]" Offices in the IC Market District, bribe one of the [[Oblivion:Khajiit|Khajiits]] inside, and duplicate the book, as if you where paying them to copy the book in the printing press. Then return the original book to the guild.
* Punch doors before entering houses to show knocking the door, then enter.
* Use a War-Hammer or similar weapon when entering taverns or other places you'd like to be noticed.
* If possible download the Actors in Charge mod as it adds more animations to your character. {{PES|1779|PES}}, {{Tesnexus|6239|TES Nexus}}.
* If you are repairing something, find the nearest anvil and equip a mace or a hammer. Place your item in the side of the anvil and pound away as if "repairing" it. (You can repair it for real afterwards)
* Given that most people don't have supernatural attention spans, try not to wait for long periods of time all at once, unless there is a good reason (e.g., you're spying on someone). t
*just before you die load your saves and look at the pictures like a flashback of your life.

===Religion===
* Dedicate your life to a Prince or God.
** Choose a god to follow based on your character's race and class.
** Worship your Chosen god through activities that would please your particular god.
** Enchant your armor and give it a name such as "Helmet of Akatosh" so that you can wear your god's armor.
** Convert as many people as possible. For a more violent approach, kill worshipers of other gods or raid temples dedicated to other gods.
** If you strongly believe in your god then you could wake up every day at a certain time and place a gift on the altar.
** Go to the priest and confess your sins.
** Summon a Daedra Lord only on certain days. You could therefore celebrate these days by acting as a madman on Sheogorath's summoning day, reading books all day when it's the summoning day of Hermaeus Mora, etc...
** Place fresh flowers on graves to show the gods that you're devoted to them
** Visit the chapel every morning and pray.
** Worship according to your race if you hold pride in it. For example as a Khajiit, worship the Khajiit pantheon and drink Skooma to make you feel closer to the Lunar Lattice. This can be changed depending on what race your character is.
** Read through and study the holy texts of your religion. Copy them and drop them in public places to spread your faith!

===Family===

* Do you have a family? If so, do you keep in touch?
** If they died, will that change your opinion about different races, factions, or people involved?
* If your parents or close family are rich or powerful, than you have great power where they live. In other words, if your brother was a Chancellor, you would have much influence.
* You could make up a quest were you find out that your long lost father is Martin Septim.
** If you are part of a noble family like the Septims, throw your newfound power around. Also, enchant your gear and name it after your family.
* Make your family race-appropriate so no Altmer fathers and Orc children.
* If your character is older, maybe you have children or grandchildren. Don't let the fact that you can't find people with the same names stop you — maybe some live in other lands.

==Character Type Roleplaying==
===General Character Creation===
You can create and develop your character to emulate any person you like, including heroes from stories and movies. There are several basic ways you can customize your character to resemble your rolemodel:
* Give your character an appropriate name.
* Choose an appropriate [[Oblivion:Races|race]] and gender.
* Customize your character's appearance to match your rolemodel.
* Create a custom class with an appropriate name and skills.
* Equip your character with appropriate clothing, armor, and weapons. Enchant items to rename them.
* Decide which [[Oblivion:NPCs|NPCs]] are your friends and which are your enemies. Only do [[Oblivion:Quests|quests]] for your friends, and only join guilds that are appropriate for your character.

You don't necessarily have to start a new character, although your options are more limited if you are building on an existing character.

===Specific Character Ideas===
The possibilities for roleplaying are infinite, and therefore it would not be possible to list every possible type of roleplay. Instead, the following articles detail a few common types of roleplay. The ideas in these articles can be combined in whatever way you like for your character. These articles are also all listed in the category [[:Category:Oblivion-Roleplaying|Oblivion-Roleplaying]].
* '''[[/Assassin|Assassin]]''': Make a living by killing people.
* '''[[/Collector|Collector]]''': Search for rare items and display them in your house.
* '''[[/Criminal|Criminal]]''': Thieves and other criminals live by their own "laws."
* '''[[/Fighter or Warrior|Fighter or Warrior]]''': Sometimes violence ''is'' the answer.
* '''[[/Guard|Guard]]''': Use your skills to serve and protect - or harass and oppress - the citizens of Cyrodiil.
* '''[[/Jobs|Jobs]]''': Choose an occupation to provide your income.
* '''[[/Lifestyles|Lifestyles]]''': Decide what type of lifestyle you wish to lead.
* '''[[/Mage|Mage]]''': Manipulate magicka in whatever way you desire.
* '''[[/Merchant|Merchant]]''': Buy and sell goods to other merchants to make a living.
* '''[[/Religious Enthusiast|Religious Enthusiast]]''': Let your religious beliefs guide you.
* '''[[/Ruler|Ruler]]''': Become a member of Cyrodiil's ruling class.
* '''[[/Scientist|Scientist]]''': Experiment to increase your knowledge.
* '''[[/Wilderness Dweller|Wilderness Dweller]]''': Detach yourself from normal society.

==Guidelines for Contributions==
* Make sure that your ideas are not already covered anywhere in this article or its sub-articles.
** If there are any ideas similar to your planned contribution, revise or expand the existing content instead of adding new, redundant content.
** New, redundant sub-articles are likely to immediately be proposed for deletion.
** A new sub-article should contain more than just a list of skills and equipment. It should include recommended activities that are not already covered in the general [[#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and are not already covered in other roleplaying sub-articles.
* Place any contributions in the correct place in the article (or its sub-articles).
* Test any ideas and make sure the ideas work as intended before adding the ideas.
* Any roleplaying sub-articles should be Elder Scrolls relevant. In other words, sub-articles with non-ES names should not exist.
** It is acceptable to mention non-ES ideas within sub-articles, as specific examples of a type of roleplay. For example, the Ninja section of the [[/Assassin|Assassin article]].
* The overall concept described in a sub-article should be possible without console or mods.
** If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then the tip may be useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful, but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist.
* The role must be one that can be used to play the game.
** The role must involve doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods.

User talk:Auri-El Reborn/A Contract Amiss

2010-06-13T00:25:00Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Positive. */ new section

Leave comments -- positive or negative, I enjoy both -- suggestions, and the like here.

== Positive. ==

Decent enough story. Caius (Beautiful name, by the way) kind of turned for no reason. I'd like a better explanation.

[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 00:25, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying

2010-03-27T21:33:30Z

Ninja Hinder: /* I'm thinking about redoing every specific character idea. */ new section

{| class="wikitable" style="float: right;"
! Talk Page Archives
|-
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[[Oblivion Talk:Roleplaying/Archive 1|Archive 1]]: February 2007 - June 2008.
|}
{{TOCright}}
== Better guidelines ==

In the interest of curbing some of the ridiculous stuff that keeps getting added here faster than we can keep up with the deletions, I propose a new set of guidelines for creating roleplaying articles. (Not that anyone will pay attention to them, but at least when people complain that their articles are being removed, we can point to an established policy and say "here's why". So, my proposal would be something like this: (feel free to add to it, comment, etc.)
*All roleplaying ideas must be ''possible'' to do in the game, without mods or console. There's no point in telling people things like "Get married and have a family" when there simply isn't any way to do that in the game as it is designed. (Yes, I'm sure there are probably mods that let you do things like that, but this isn't about mods, and 3rd-party mods are not generally discussed on this site.) The vast majority of roleplaying submissions fail on this account.
*Standing around in one place isn't roleplaying. Thus, an idea like "Be a castle guard" which basically involves just standing around outside the gate for 18 hours a day and then sleeping in the guards quarters isn't really much of an idea. In order to consider it roleplaying, you must actually be ''doing'' something. If you're so bored with this game that you actually resort to such mundane, mindless tasks, it's probably time to put it away and find a new game.
*Collecting items isn't roleplaying. Filling your house with whatever random object you think you want to have a lot of for some reason just doesn't cut it.
*Mass slaughter isn't roleplaying. And it's already been discussed in various places anyhow. A roleplay article which basically amounts to "go everywhere and kill anything that moves" is just pointless.
*Roleplays must be Elder-Scrolls specific. Simply put, there are no Jedi in Tamriel. 'Nuff said.
*If your roleplaying idea basically just amounts to pretending to be your favorite Anime character, it really just doesn't belong here. Besides being impossible to do within the game (see above), if we start allowing articles like this, there's no end to the number of characters people could add. Nobody cares how much you love Pokemon and Dragonball-Z. Keep that stuff on your User page. (This doesn't just apply to Anime, of course. But that seems to be the most common source for named-character roleplays. You also shouldn't add articles suggesting that people play as Batman or the Terminator or Snake from Metal Gear, etc.)
I think if we applied these rules, and enforced them, we could weed out 90% of the horribleness on these pages. Any thoughts? Additions? Angry rants? --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 12:10, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

:Well thought out, Lurlock, these guidelines might just improve the quality of these articles. Many of your suggestions are brought up in earlier discussions, see [[#Cleaning up these articles]]. True roleplaying is perhaps at the core of the TES series, many roleplaying articles here though are a travesty to that idea. --[[User:Benould|Benould]]•[[User_Talk:Benould|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Benould|C]] 13:34, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

::An addition:
::*Ideas should be something ''fun''. Admittedly, that's hard to quantify, but the best way is to simply ask yourself when submitting an idea: "Would I actually ''do'' this?" If the answer is "no", then the odds are that nobody else would either. A roleplay that basically amounts to sitting around and doing the same tedious thing over and over again every day is not likely to be something that anyone will be interested in actually doing.
::--[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 14:52, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:::These seem like good quidelines. I'm not sure they'll help improve anything but, as you say, it will allow easier deletions when the time comes. {{unsigned|Rpeh|14 July 2008}}

While I agree we need to find a way to improve this page, I have a couple of overall problems with the specifics of these proposed guidelines.

First, these guidelines seem judgmental and at times arbitrary. Although most of the ideas on the page are not ones I'd be interested in playing, the fact is that at least one reader has thought that each idea would be interesting. Simply declaring all of those ideas invalid will make the article significantly useful for those who read the article; it will also alienate a significant number of readers. I think there are ways to limit the scope of the article that may ultimately have a similar effect, but will better incorporate the preferences of readers who use the article.

Second, these guidelines don't help in any way to define what we ''do'' want on the page. To make significant, lasting progress towards improving this article will require positive improvements to the article and its structure. We need to have examples of what should be on the page, so that other editors can build on those good examples. We need to find a way to structure the article that limits the overall scope of the article and eliminates redundancy, while also providing a better way for contributors to channel/organize ideas. One key reason why this probably hasn't happened to date is that this type of article revamp requires an experienced editor who is willing to seriously look at the article's contents and understand why readers find the article useful. I don't think that you can help to make the article better if your primary objective is just to delete as much content as possible.

Some more specific nitpicks with these guidelines:
* I don't think there's anything wrong with roleplaying that focuses on collecting items. Several previous articles were specifically related to collecting items, and several more contained elements of collecting. Many players do spend a lot of time collecting items. You can play the game while collecting -- there are even many quests that are just collection missions. I don't see why the whole concept should just be declared invalid.
* Similarly, what exactly is the rationale behind saying that mass slaughter isn't valid roleplaying? Is it a moral argument or is it based upon whether or not the articles contain ideas that readers find useful? A moral argument doesn't seem to hold much water in a game that requires you to assassinate NPCs; I think we have to allow articles on roleplaying evil characters. As for usefulness, my first impression is that several readers have found these
types of articles useful, given that the idea has been proposed several times, in various forms. I would agree that more than one such article would be redundant, but that's true for any given topic.

So, what do I propose instead? I've spent the last couple of days examining these articles pretty closely (and doing a lot of work trying to implement some of my ideas, too). The biggest problems that I see in the Roleplaying articles are:
* Redundancy, redundancy, and more redundancy. Ten articles all of which describe being an assassin in one way or another. General roleplaying ideas that are brought up more than once in the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and then repeated in dozens of subarticles (e.g., how to eat realistically, how to avoid fast travel). No crosslinks to other related roleplaying ideas.
* Poor quality introduction and guidelines on the page (now revised). The previous guidelines repeatedly asked editors to contribute any and all ideas and generally promoted the idea that the article is meant to provide a comprehensive list of roleplaying ideas, which is basically impossible.
* Low editorial standards. This problem is the one that's least likely to be improved in the near future, but I might as well still mention it. Articles and ideas are generally padded with too much emphasis or too many irrelevant details.

To tackle what I see as the real problems I have a few suggestions. Several of these I've already implemented, at least in a preliminary way, to demonstrate what I think is possible. One reason I proceeded to implement some of these ideas is that they can be done without fundamentally eliminating any information from the article and therefore should not be controversial.
* Emphasize in the character roleplaying section that the possibilities are infinite but we are trying to just provide a limited selection of good examples. We can establish some criteria that are used to limit our examples, but those criteria don't mean that other types of roleplaying are less valid.
* Add a [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#General Character Creation|General Character Creation]] section that summarizes the basic outline of dozens of roleplaying articles. This might perhaps encourage readers to follow the checklist to create their own new character (Time Lord, Sith, whatever) without creating a new article just to fill in the checklist. Furthermore, we could start to eliminate articles that consist of nothing but a list of such character creation ideas (e.g., no articles that just provide a list of name/race/skills/equipment).
* Make the individual roleplaying articles be more comprehensive, by merging any related ideas into a single article. I've done this so far for the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Roleplaying/Assassin]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Collector|Roleplaying/Collector]], [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist|Roleplaying/Scientist]], and [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller|Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller]] articles, in the process reducing some 30 articles into just 4. A given idea (e.g., how to live in the wilderness) should be described only once; similar ideas should be grouped together instead of repeating the same basic ideas. I think for the article to be useful, we need to end up with a list of sub-articles that is short enough to be quickly scanned and digested, so that it's obvious for readers and editors where a given idea is described.
* Aggressively eliminate redundancy. Unfortunately, this is likely to require some familiarity with what exists where. However, if we can improve the article's organization, it should become easier to identify where particular information belongs.

As for limiting type of content actually belongs on the article, I would propose:
* Any roleplaying sub-articles should be '''Elder Scrolls relevant.''' In other words, sub-articles with non-ES names should not exist.
** However, I think there is room to mention non-ES ideas within sub-articles, as specific examples of a type of roleplay. For example, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin#Ninja|Ninja]] section of the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin|Assassin]] article. The number of such suggestions won't be infinite, because the other criteria will effectively limit the number of relevant non-ES concepts.
* The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''
** Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist.
* The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''
** This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game.
** In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods.
* Any sub-articles have to contain '''substantial, new content.''' In other words, there has to be more than just a list of skills and equipment. There should be recommended activities that are not already covered in the general [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Increased Realism|Increased Realism]] section and are not already covered in other roleplaying sub-articles.

While this discussion is underway, I've added requests to the roleplaying article that no new sub-articles be created. I think this is a reasonable request until we've established what we want for content. Once we reach a consensus in this discussion, the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Guidelines for Contributions|Guidelines for Contributions]] can be updated to provide the new criteria and allow new sub-articles to be created... as long as they meet the criteria. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 23:54, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:Nephele, I think that your proposed guidelines are a great improvement on Lurlocks set. They are very clearly defined and spelled out, and don't seem judgemental or subjective. I've also read the revamped version of the article and find it much more helpful, being much less cluttered, and generally better written overall. Kudos to you. [[User:Darkle|Darkle]] 00:10, 15 July 2008 (EDT)0

They are good ideas and 5 or 6 pages with these would be very good. Because i don't want to look about 40 pages to get the idea which i want...{{unsigned|78.184.150.144}}

:New Categories? I have just checked the 'Scientist' category, and the Archaeologist section has been extremely shortened. I feel this lowers the quality of the individual section. Will this happen to other characters who are categorized in this way? Also, many characters are not relevant to the categories, such as the Dark Lord.{{unsigned|89.242.210.48}}

::The four new subarticles are just the first four examples of new, more comprehensive subarticles. There clearly need to be more than just four eventually, once someone is willing to tackle all the required work to create, merge, and rewrite the subarticles. To answer your question, yes, I think that all of the roleplaying articles should be converted over to broader subarticles that combine related ideas into one place.
::Do you have any concrete complaints about the Archaelogist section of the Scientist sub-article? Yes, that one section is shorter than the standalone Archaeologist subarticle. However, in my opinion it's because the quality has increased, not decreased. It's higher quality because:
::* The information that is shared with other Scientist ideas is now listed at the top of the article, or is listed on the cross-referenced Collector article. The result is that the information is provided just once instead of being repeated over and over again; readers no longer have to wade through repeated information to dig out what's new. The number of ideas has been increased, because now related ideas that were hidden on other articles are also available to people interested in being an archaeologist.
::* The combined article makes it easier for readers interested in the general concept to browse for other, related ideas. The chances are that someone who is interested in roleplaying as an archaelogist would find some of the other ideas on the scientist and collector pages interesting. Now those other ideas are easy to find, instead of having to search through the 100+ other articles.
::* Ideas that aren't specific to being an Archaeologist have been removed. For example, "Make sure to keep a trusty weapon (enchanted or silver shortsword preferably) next to you, just in case you meet an angry skeleton or ghost!" This contributes nothing to being an archaelogist and therefore does little other than waste space.
::* Ideas that seemed to be basically pointless have been deleted. Who is seriously going to want to install a mod adding physics to paintbrushes just so you can drag the paintbrush across artifacts and pretend to dust them off? Even if you're sufficiently bored to want to try it once, it's not something you are going to want to do regularly as part of roleplaying. And it's not something that in any way contributes to how you play the game. Personally, I think winnowing out some of the more ridiculous suggestions on the article will only help the article. Readers do not want to be forced to read through dozens of uninteresting ideas -- I believe readers would rather have shorter articles that focus more specifically on information that is interesting to more than one person.
::If you feel that there are valuable ideas on the Archaeologist article that need to be moved to the new article, you are free to move the information. I'd also recommend providing some justification on the talk page, however, because making an article longer does not automatically increase its quality. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:50, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Can I suggest putting this page on hiatus (i.e. protecting it and adding a nrelevant notice at the top) until this issue is resolved? Personally i feel the roleplaying section has caused more problems than its worth and all it does is take up time that could be better spent on the actual wiki. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] [[User Talk:Volanaro|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Volanaro|C]] • [[Special:Emailuser/Volanaro|E]] 08:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Nephele's four basic guidelines seem effective. A suggestion concerning the rhetoric of the "used to play the game" guideline: Any role-playing proposal should describe, in some detail, a '''role''' and a '''style of play''' that follows from that role. A good example is the entry for "vampire hunter," for which there is a clear pattern of gameplay (such as: hunt down vampires, use fire-based attacks to kill them, then turn the vampire dust over to the Order of the Virtuous Blood for cash). Many, perhaps most, of the awful suggestions on the page consist of a role with no actual gameplay that follows from it. -- [[User:Oban|Oban]] 02:29, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:::I agree.

As Nephele has demonstrated with the four revised articles, I would like to point out that most of the ideas in each article should be in note form. I was reading the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Guerrilla Rebel|Guerrilla Rebel]] once, and I found that it was very hard to take it all in because of the 'clumps' of text. It could easily be shortened.

Also, you can include many different ideas by Categorizing them. For example: Articles like Jedi, Terminator ect. could go into a category called Movies or something.

Anything I would have said has already been said by Lurlock and Nephele. If anything, I support this idea no doubt about it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 07:16, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Pacifist ==

I'm going to be a member but I can't create pages for sometime(wiki policy) and I suggest you to create this page and name as pacifist.
Here are the ideas:

Because pacifists can't stand to see harm(human to creature, human to human etc.)(even if the one who's harmed is guilty), i thought it would be a good experience.
Be an orc or nord(for fun :D). Other races will work well (exceptions are imperials and redguards).
Create your custom class (or be an monk(replace hand to hand). Do not bear any aggresive skills.
Select sneak&security if you are the explorer type.
Speechcraft is optional, block is a must-be (To stay out of the harm's way)
Do NOT bear any aggresive spells, or do NOT carry any weapons.
Only attack if someone has mocked you when you have paying homage to your fallen comrades. Feel regret for your attack and redo the pilgrimage.
Stop any fights, or look at a different way.

Add your own ideas or so... idea just came up.

*Interesting idea.
Honestly that sounds like a decent idea... But it can easily be moved into an existing category. Or perhaps get a subarticle created. Priest/religious/whatever you know? It would be a bit of work trying to combine all the priest, monk, etc. from the list into that category, but it certainly would help in the cause.

:You could put it under [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Lifestyles|Roleplaying/Lifestyles]]. {{unsigned|60.240.157.31|11 June 2009}}

== Page Usage ==

Can i ask, how many people actually '''use''' the roleplaying pages? There are numerous articles here but do people actually read these and put the suggestions into practice in TES?--[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] 08:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to guess that only around 50% of registered editors use the ideas. I've only glanced at the pages a few times, but half of the things I couldn't even do (I'm on 360) & that was like about 4-5 months ago. (Thus the recent cleanup.) I think these pages might be used more after the new rules and guidelines.-[[User:Puddle|Puddle]] [[User Talk:Puddle|Talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Puddle|Contribs.]] 13:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

:I love these pages! I visit them one day or the other to see if something new has been added. And yes, I actually use the ideas on the pages in-game. I've some ideas by myself, but none of them are worth an entry yet. They're mostly small additions to what's on these pages already.[[Special:Contributions/87.150.188.109|87.150.188.109]] 19:12, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

== Protection? ==

After the recent spate of vandalism, I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't semi-protect this page, at least until we've finished the cleanup process. Looking back through the history, It seems like every single edit for the past couple weeks has either been vandalism, redundant additions by people who didn't read the "please don't add anything right now" notice, or reverts of the previous. Of course, if we do this, we should make sure that the cleanup happens as quickly as possible, so it doesn't need to stay protected for long, but we need some way of making people understand that this page is being redone, and a notice telling them to stop adding to it obviously isn't working - if anything there have been more edits since the notice was put up than there were before. Semi-protection would at least stop the IP editors from constantly adding redundancy and vandalism to this page until we've finished the restructuring process. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 19:16, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
'''Agree''' - I agree. No-one seems to like to read that notice, so maybe semi-protection is a good option. [[User:Daedryon|Daedryon]]•[[User_Talk:Daedryon|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Daedryon|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Daedryon|E]]• 19:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

As a user of this site, I do indeed use this, and did click the link, because I had a submission I wanted to make but wanted to read what was going on first. I would like to vouch that people are indeed doing that, and that people don't completely ignore the guidelines.

== New payment ==

I read through this page alot, and whenever I see the 'You can get paid by using the console, or through stealing'
I realize there is another way. You can duplicate items worth around 100 gold near the person who pays you, and whenever they do pay you, take one. A suggestion for such an item are soul gems. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:54, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Better guidelines followup ==
The discussion about possible guidelines has remained silent for nearly a month; has a consensus been made elsewhere? In the meantime, the articles are still there, waiting to be cleaned up, but the guidelines are still "on the drawing board". The note on the bottom of the page has been ignored or remained unseen by some; new articles are being created, which don't folow any guidelines, but are essentially just an extension of existing pages or types of roleplay. (Which is exactly what we/you are trying to prevent.)

In short: how far are we/you with those guidelines? --[[User:LordDagon|LordDagon]][[User_talk:LordDagon|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/LordDagon|C]] 11:03, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Why does this section exist in the first place? ==

:I can understand wanting to play characters to certain guidelines. I do it myself (my last character was effectively a ghost)... but most of the suggestions given here are ludicrous.
:Teleport amulet delusions, leaving money around to pretend to be paid later, annotating NPCs' words for them, getting lost in the woods and huddling under rocky overhangs to avoid the rain? Adventurers in pajamas, food poisoning, inviting Arena fans into your house, pretending to shag the maid, walking through the wilderness with a set of armour for every occasion (total weight = several hundred)? ... And I thought my brief spate of having partial Chameleon, immunity to Normal Weapons (and frost), an Invisible horse, only coming out at night and going around casting Demoralise on NPCs was crazy!
:
: Most important though... surely anyone who has the inclination to roleplay will figure out the means for themselves... right? If they don't want to use a certain game feature because it seems unrealistic, then they won't use it. The point is that roleplaying is supposed to be creative... not just following a set of someone else's guidelines and suggestions. ~ [[User:SotiCoto|SotiCoto]] 18:40, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::Personally, I agree with you, and I think this part of the site has been a thorn in my side for quite some time, but it does seem to be fairly popular, so some people must like it. I've advocated getting rid of it on several occasions, but I doubt it's going to happen, because wikis are run by the community, and a large enough portion of the community seems to want these pages to stay that it's unlikely to change any time soon. The best we can do is try and keep them under control, so that it doesn't just blow up out of proportion and bring the rest of the site down with it. We've been trying to do that by combining the subpage articles into larger, more general articles, and removing the more ridiculous ideas that either aren't technically feasable, or not likely to be appealing to any sane person. (e.g. "Be a castle guard! Stand around outside the gate for 18 hours and then go rest in the barracks!") But it's a slow process, mainly because the people who have the skills to effectively do this polishing and culling of the worst parts of this section mostly don't care enough about these pages to put in the effort. I've adopted a policy of grudging tolerance, and try to do my best to ignore what goes on here for the most part, stepping in only when there's clear need to do so. (Some of the ideas posted have been rather controversial, offensive, or - let's just say inappropriate for younger audiences. These usually get taken down pretty quickly.) If you'd like to help with this process, your assistance would be appreciated. Otherwise, I'd just say let it go and don't worry too much about it. --[[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] [[User_talk:TheRealLurlock|Talk]] 23:24, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Allow me to represent the ones who enjoy this page and say there would be a firestorm if it was removed. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:46, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

I must say that I remember back the days where it was a small little section of "Things to do when you are bored", and it opened my eyes to alot of cool ways to RP in the game. I use these advice alot, they usually give me some good ideas. Im not talking about making a char thats some weirdo standing and waiting all day long.
Im talking about Roleplaying the character you have, then maybe having a RP sidejob too. Like currently im a crusader, back the days of KOTN i created the crusader part of the RP section. Its grown alot since then and I use that information too. - Fireresistance vs Flaming (elderscrolls forum)

To be honest, I think if you dont like the Roleplaying section, just dont bother with it, ignore it, UESP has the entire internet to expand, so you people that don't like it just leave it be, people such as myself find the ideas entertaining to read and perform, no offense anyone but I mean come on, its just a roleplay section for the few of us who like to really get into our characters after we've beaten the game (Complete Main Quest/Factions) X amount of times, so we like new ideas other than make a new character and do it all over again for the 5th or 6th time [[User:Zalphon|Zalphon]] 20:16, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:I have to agree with SotiCoto. I definitely see the origins of this page in what Zalphon called "Things to do when you're bored". Anyone into RP will come up with their own ideas, and many of these suggestions are more than a bit odd (I half expected to see the "shag the maid" idea in this list). The only people who actually need suggestions like this are...well, people who are bored. Here's some advice: if the game bores you so much, ''quit and play another game'', or turn off the computer or console and live your life.
:And I also have to respond to this ridiculousness about Fast Travel being unrealistic. Fast Travel is '''not''' teleportation. Time passes in-game when you Fast Travel. Don't believe me? Check the date and time in the map tab in the journal before and after Fast Travelling. It takes about an hour and fifteen minutes to Fast Travel by Chestnut horse from IC to Aleswell, and a little over an hour to FT from Aleswell to Bruma. That's approximately the same amount of in-game time it would have taken to do it yourself if you followed the main roads and did not meet any encounters. Travel is ''not'' instantaneous. The only benefit from FT is that is saves you real-world time and effort, but it has its downsides too:
:* You cannot discover POI while FT, and you will miss out on some wondrous scenery.
:* FT follows the main roads, which may or may not be the fastest and most direct route (bad when you are role-playing some sort of time constraint, and explains why it takes over four hours to FT on foot from Vilverin to the Market District in IC when you can run it in just under an hour).
:* You do not encounter anything on the road while FT, so you will miss out on xp and drops (I personally only use FT when I would follow the main road anyway and I know the area has already been cleared and has not reset).
:There are many, many things in the game that are ridiculously unrealistic (like everyone in the world telling the exact same stories word for word, and guards all over the country knowing that you committed a crime at the instant you commit it). Fast Travel is not one of them. Here endeth the rant. [[User:Phelaran|Phelaran]] 14:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

== Character roleplay idea ==

I think that a nice addition to the sperfic charcater creation section would be criminal for bandits and the like.[[User:121.218.222.125|121.218.222.125]] 02:53, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Revamp proposal discussion ==

I've posted a proposal for a revamp of the Roleplaying pages [[User talk:GuildKnight/Sandbox/1|here]]. Please chime in. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 06:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)

:If "Skooma Addict" can be a lifestyle, why can't "Drunkard" be one? The rules are similar: the objective is to get that next drink, and the playing style involves acting constantly on impulse without any long-term plan. This has been tested and the game can definitely be played this way, and the results can be hilarious and great fun. I suggest you do not delete it but incorporate it into your Lifestyle section--[[User:216.55.202.19|216.55.202.19]] 11:48, 29 January 2009 (EST)

::If you have an objection to one of the articles under deletion review, it would be appropriate to comment on the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|Deletion Review]] page linked to on the Deletion Review box at the top of that page.

== Magical Storing ==

what if you enchanted an amulet or something like "amulet of magical storage" and then you can justify carrying more than usual. like pretend like all the items are magically stored and then removed when wanted. [[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 22:01, 15 January 2009 (EST)

: Wouldn't that sort of eliminate the point? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 23:59, 15 January 2009 (EST)
not necessarily because you could be a mage and probably get away with it.[[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 09:09, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== some personal objections ==

The "cannot be used to play the game" concept of deletion doesn’t make any sense to me could someone explain it? It’s just a behavior pattern you'd have your character practice to get in to a certain role so it seems perfectly reasonable that it would be there. And "can not be done without mods" that’s what the note about mods is for! honestly i just think its ridicules. Why limit our entries to what is possible in the vanilla game? Modding is a very popular practice among players of the PC version of the game.so I don’t see what the problem is. [[User:71.87.144.230|71.87.144.230]] 07:05, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:This has been discussed before... on this page. To quote [[User:Nephele|Nephele]] in the [[#|discussion above]];
:*''"The rolemust be one that can be '''used to play the game.'''"... "In other words, the role is one that involves doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience. These basics must be possible without console/mods."... "This is my attempt at something more objective and well-defined than "must be fun." I'd say if we're going to recommend an idea, it should be something that ties into Oblivion, rather than being something that could be done in almost any roleplaying-type game."''
:*''"The overall concept described in a sub-article should be '''possible without console or mods.'''"... "Again, this doesn't mean that console/mods can never be mentioned. If there are console/mod tips that augment the core idea (instead of creating the idea), then I think readers will find the tip useful. For example, mentioning an archaeologist mod on the [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Scientist#Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] section is relevant and useful--but not absolutely necessary to be an archaeologist."''
:My thoughts on the topics: Roleplaying articles should be restricted to roles that can be used to play the game. If playing the role means that you cannot actually play the game as it was designed, then it does not have anything to do with TES, and can likely be accomplished with any RPG. Roles described in these articles should also be possible without use of the console or mods. There's nothing wrong with a mod that enhances a role, but if the role is not possible in the vanilla game, then, once again, it's not really related to TES, and could likely be accomplished with third-party mods on most RPGs.
:There were no arguments against either of these guidelines, a consensus was reached, and the main article of this page was updated to reflect these new contribution guidelines. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 19:38, 5 February 2009 (EST)

::Obviously, some people forget that RPG stands for '''Role-Playing''' Game. The idea that these things should be possible without Mods is fine, but what about roleplaying as a Priest, a Healer, a Prisoner or other things that don't involve "doing quests, exploring dungeons, or otherwise doing activities that give your character money, rewards, and skill-building experience"? --[[User:Debatra|Debatra]] 22:12, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:If a third-party mod or a console command is neccessary to carry off the effect described by the roleplaying article, then that statement excludes any and all players who lack either the capability or the mods being used. Any suggested roleplaying idea should, at least, have the grace of being possible to execute by any player who reads that suggestion. —[[User:Dark Spark|Dark Spark]] 22:59, 5 February 2009 (EST)

:: Debatra has a good point. These different ideas don't necessarily need to advance the character in the game. This page contained some interesting ideas, and there was no reason to delete them. However, it does need to be a character that is playable. Otherwise it truly is pointless. My only protest is that some good, playable ideas were deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

:::This page contains really interesting ideas, and I fail at seeing any problems with it. Maybe I'm just slow? Why do people keep complaning about using consoles or mods, what's the use in being "Oblivion purists" while those things could make roleplaying a whole other thing? If it was a multiplayer game, then yes, it could be quite the problem, hacking and such. But it's single-player, everyone should be free to RP in the way he/she feels like. And if you're just a console player who's feeling envious, this is not the place to waste your anger on. Thanks. {{unsigned|Newyn|6 March 2009}}

::::I think the reason Nephele put that in about about them needing to not require mods or the console to use is that ''anyone'' that wants to should be able to use these, however if you have something specific in mind ask someone like GuildKnight, or TheRealLurlock about creating a category; maybe something like: Roleplaying -> PC and then put whatever sub categories are required afterward.

== The Old RPs.. ==

May i ask why all the old Roleplays were removed?? Like Mr Nice guy - ok we could possabley change the name but they are all Roles that we can play.. With mods/Console or without they are still roleplays...

'''''Suggestions plaease''''' {{unsigned|Target|7 April 2009}}

:See the Deletion Review entry [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review#Multiple Oblivion:Roleplaying subpages|here]]. --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 22:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

::The old Roleplays that were removed were of poor quality. Half of them had less than 5 sentences of information and were pointless. As you can see the new Roleplays are of a much higher standard and give plenty of information, pictures and tips. If you can make a Roleplay that is of equal standard, we will be happy to keep it. --[[User:Matthewest|Matthewest]] •[[User_Talk:Matthewest|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Matthewest|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Matthewest|E]]• 04:22, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Still, why remove some of them when they just needed work. {{unsigned|Target|8 April 2009}}
: They didn't just need work. They were deleted because they were beyond salvage, either because they duplicated other, better-written ideas, or because they had no hope of ever being expanded. You're lucky that the other roleplays didn't share the same fate: I think most people would prefer that they were all just deleted. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:40, 9 April 2009 (EDT)

Is not the purpose of Oblivion, and indeed, most roleplaying games to play the game how you want? If you wish to do a roleplay here is an area where you can look and gain ideas from other users. For the motto of the game is 'live another life in another world'.
–-[[User:Veltas|Veltas]]•[[User_Talk:Veltas|T]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Veltas|E]]• 23:59 10 May 2009 (EDT)

:Veltas has a point. I agree, some were stupid, but most could've been revised rather than deleted. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 04:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

::Any that could have been revised were rewritten and/or merged with another article. The only was that were deleted were the ones that were beyond salvage. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 04:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== .hack rp's ==

-Ok, i wanted to ask if i could make a whole new thing for roleplaying? If you've ever played .hack its basically a not-online mmorpg for ps2. In it theres a lot of different classes and stuff and i wanted to make a roleplay of .hack where you pretty much pretend that the you're playing a person whos playing oblivion may sound wierd but i think it could be fun.
In the original version of The World, there were six classes.

-Blademaster(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Heavy Axeman(use only axes)
-Heavy Blade(use only two-handed blades)
-Long Arm(okay, in the world thes guys use spears, so this one would have to be staves or something.)
-Twin Blade(i really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)
-Wavemaster(spell user)

but theres also the new one with

-Adept Rogue( basically you would use multiple classes, but you can only have your final amount add up to 4 points, for example, Blade briandier costs 1 point and shadow warlock costs 3, so that would be all you could get.)
-Blade Brandier/1 point(could be played using only a one-handed blade)
-Macabre Dancer/3 points(these guys use fans and spells in .hack so i dont know how they could be played)
-Edge Punisher/1 point(use only two-handed blades)
-Flick Reaper/2 points(they use scythes, so i dont know how they could be played)
-Harvest Cleric/3 points(mainly use healing spells)
-Lord Partizan/2 points(they use gigantic spears and axes, so two-handed axes would be good)
-Shadow Warlock/3 points(mainly use attack spells.
-Steam Gunner/3 points(could not be played unless instead f a gun, you use a bow)
-Tribal Grappler/2 points(wear gloves and use hand to hand combat)
-Twin Blade(I really dont know how twin blade would work without mods)

It would be cool though because you'd pretend that the pc's in the game are other players of the world and you can get followers and make a party, and you could preend places are areas, and you could be a PK(player killer) or a PKK(Player killer killer) and you could pretend that the arena is lumina cloth and you need to become the Emporer of it( in dot hack that means champion)

Anyways, just a sugeestion but i think this would be really fun.
Doom Knight 22:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

:Roleplays from other games usually don't work. If you insist I'd recommend reading the guidelines for adding good roleplay sections. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Teleportation ==

I can't decide whether or not to add this to the traveling section, opinions will be appreciated. Anyway, With the frostcraig spire add on your really can teleport to the cities via the mages guilds portals. Then you can use them to get back.I already have the Battlehorn Castle DLC and im thinking about getting frostcraig spire as well. If you are in the same situation then you can use the spire to teleport to chorrol and walk to your castle. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 00:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:The specific usage of teleporting to Chorrol to get to Battlehorn Castle probably isn't appropriate, but I see nothing wrong with mentioning that roleplayers who don't like fast travel can save time by using Frostcrag Spire since there's an explanation for why teleportation is possible. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 03:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::The Battlehorn thing was more of an examlple of the idea rather then something i meant to be in the article, my bad, i should have made it clear. Anyway, ill add that to the article then, thanks for the opinion --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 03:33, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Swimming ==

Somewhere it should be mentioned that for added realism, the player should take off most or all of their clothes or armor before swimming. I'd add it myself but I'm not sure of the best place for it.--[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 05:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's already mentioned; [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Miscellaneous|Here]], it says in the third bullet point, "Bathe periodically by taking off your clothes and swimming. Wash your clothes, too, by dropping them in the water. For more realism, drop them in a sunny place and wait for them to dry; if it's cloudy, wait a bit longer." --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 17:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, my bad, must have missed that bit. --[[User:SneakyPenguin77|SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag)]] 18:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Miscellaneous ==

''Make a permanent Command Creature spell and cast it on a wolf to have a dog that follows you around.''

How do you make a permanent command creature spell? I know you can make spells at the arcane university, but how would you make a permanent one? --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 01:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::You can't, at least not that I know (I play on xbox), probably it's possible in the PC using the console or the CS. You can, however, stack effects but you will have to cast the spell continuosly.--[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] 03:03, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Ah, I see. thank you. Maybe once I get to the university (when i feel like it *is lazy*) ill see if I can make a strong spell. --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 04:16, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Good point. I don't recall how one would make a permanent spell in Oblivion. I've removed the note altogether as it's not helpful because it doesn't provide a how-to. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 12:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Some of my edits were removed, I checked with the guidelines and they were perfectly fine? Why'd they get removed then? ;( {{unsigned|Daedric Crayons|14 December 2009}}
:The reason your edits were changed/reverted was explained in the edit summaries. --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 05:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

== Main Quest ==

If your roleplaying the main quest one thing to do is be level 25+ before starting. this might not sound like a big deal but think about it, how realistic would it be if you beet the main quest at level 4 and all you ever see in oblivion is stunted scamps. this way you will be up against the toughest draemora. not a big point but i find it importaint when playing the main quest. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 12:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8
:Although I agree, I don't think that is an element of roleplaying. This is more of a simple suggestion. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 22:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
ok. just thought i would through that out there. [[User:Forkorpl8|Forkorpl8]] 20:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8

He's got a good point though and I would suggest it being considered to be added into the main article. I mean, how can Mehrunes Dagon, the Daedric prince of destruction conquer Tamriel with an army of Scamps?

== Don't Delete This Page!! ==

For freaks sake people, role playing games are NEVER perfect. We're never allowed to do what we want to do. Call me a 4 yr. old, but its called pretending, and we can do it if we want! Why delete this page? If you dislike it, get off of it imo.... {{Unsigned|74.177.104.65|18 December 2009}}

:Where does it say this page is up for deletion? --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 13:06, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::I think there has been some talk about it, but I'm not sure. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 19:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't delete it, it's quite good and when you actually do some of it - it's fun!{{Unsigned|Daedric Crayons|18 December 2009}}
:It isn't proposed for deletion, if it were it would have the the specific tag (<nowiki>{{prod}}</nowiki>). I think that this whole concern came from [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Articles&diff=next&oldid=232215 here], and as you can see, it was a long time ago. --[[Special:Contributions/S'drassa|MC]]• [[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 22:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
::Good, ive found it..useful. [[User:General Badrang|General Badrang]] 22:57, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

When I found this page I laughed at some of the suggestions. But when I play these days I have began incorporating some of the suggestions in the article into my game, such as providing more backstory to my character and giving him more emotion allowing me to intereact more with him. Due to this, I have managed to reach a higher level and do much more in game with this character (my third playthrough) and using certain aspects of this page it just makes it more fun to do. There are some suggestions that are very foolish (pretend your dying by eating a poison apple, who would keep that up throughout the game?) but personally I think they should be kept in purely because they are hilarious. ~SamGhadiali

'''PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS PAGE ISN'T PROPOSED FOR DELETION ANY MORE AND HASN'T BEEN FOR A LONG TIME!!!!!''' [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== I'm thinking about redoing every specific character idea. ==

I'm thinking about giving specific character ideas a reveamp. Every idea, such as warrior, thief, samurai, cook, etc. will be given the same layout. This layout was made to be easy to read and informative, and give more information that ideas currently do. At the moment there really isn't one decided-upon way to make a new roleplying idea, so some of the new ones end up as a bulleted list, some a wall of text, and most are something in-between. This new format is neither. Instead of explaining it to you, here it is:

====Template====
'''Character Type'''

*Race: What ones are the best for the character, what ones aren't, and why.
*Class: What specializations and skills are best for roleplaying the character. A Thief doesn't need Heavy Armor. Almost 100% of the time, a custom class with up to 7 skill suggestions will be shown.
*Looks: This doesn't matter as much. This area specifies whether character might need a beard, or have to look neat, or if they'd usually have to be a male or female.

'''Equipment'''

Suggests what sort of equipment the specific character would need. Lockpicks for a Thief, staffs for a Wizard, swords for a Knight. This section may also say what equipment the character shouldn't have, and what kind of things they would take as loot or to wear.
*Clothes:
*Food:
*Weapons/Armor:
*Other:

'''Backstory'''

This area outlines why the character is what it is. This section can be very large or small, depending on how freeform the idea is. It should at least explain what the character is, allies and enemies of the character, and what it does. This section can also provide suggestions of a starting story for the character, certain quirks about it, and motives for what it does.

'''Ideas/Activities'''

This is not a bulleted list of everything that this character does, but instead should be treated as a few suggestions and ideas to give a clear example of what the character does. The reader should do a couple of these things with their character so that they know what the character does and how it acts towards people.

And to show you just how well if works, I'll show a roleplaying idea that doesn't use the template (96% or so of them) and then I'll show you the improved version of it that DOES use the template.

===Boxer===
*Create a male Redguard, Nord, Orc, or Khajiit with Hand to Hand, Speechcraft, Athletics, Light Armor, Block, and whatever else as major skills, choose combat as their specialty, and Strength and Endurance as preferred attributes.

*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.

When you're not in combat in the Arena, wear a pair of pants that are either your training pants, (some simple cloth pants most lower-class characters wear) or some enchanted light armor greaves with Fortify Fatigue or Hand to Hand. When in the Arena, wear the Light Raiment. As expected, box your opponents to death. You can use a Disintegrate Weapon spell to force the Arena combatants to fight you in a legitimate boxing match.

Never wear shoes. Or a shirt, most of the time. You can often wear some wristbands however. Make many Restore Fatigue potions called Energy Drink. When you are punching someone and you are running out of Fatigue, drink them.

Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.

* {{pc22}}If you have the PC version, beat up essential NPCS, knock them unconscious, rinse, repeat, then delete the bounty and hostility with the console. This also works if you have the Staff of the Everscamp, which grants you unlimited scamps to beat up. Another good training technique is at [[Oblivion:Peryite|Peryite's Shrine]] (check page to see and prevent bug) because you don't get a bounty for hitting them and they never die.

It's short, not too informative, but it looks like a fun idea. What if it was easier to read and had more info?

===Boxer===
'''Character Type'''

*Race: For a traditional boxer, the human races work best, especially Redguard and Imperial. Any race is fine though.
*Class: You'll want to specialize in combat. The essential skills for a boxer are Hand to Hand, Athletics, and Block. Anything else is up to you.
*Looks: You might want your character to look beat up, with a slightly disfigured face.

'''Equipment'''

*Clothes: A male boxer just needs pants and some good shoes. Outside matches, a boxer would wear clothes for any social class, depending on how much money the boxer has.
*Food: Any boxer should have a healthy diet consisting of plenty of meat, vegetables, and water. Water? Make a potion with a Restore Fatigue effect, and name it Water (Or buy one) and drink it regularly. You can use the Duplication Glitch for infinite water.
*Weapons/Armor: Of course, this character fights with his fists for a weapon. However, you may want to put leather gauntlets on him/her instead of proper boxing gloves. Since most of your fighting will be done in the IC Arena, you'll have to wear the Light or Heavy Raiment.
*Other: Outside of the arena, you are basically a normal citizen.

'''Backstory'''

Boxers are trained fighters who fight for entertainment across the world. They usually fight inside a square ring, and with special gloves to make sure that their hands and other body parts aren't too injured during matches. Rules in a boxing match vary from league to league, but usually, the person who has the most physical strength and fleetness of foot wins. As a boxer in Cyrodiil, you'll be in the only fight league there is. The Imperial City Arena. You have no enemies or allies that you don't make yourself, and if you become arena champion, you'll have a lot of fans. Remember, Boxers train a lot and entertain the masses!

'''Ideas/Activities'''
*Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.
*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.
*You can learn alchemy and make potions that restore your fatigue and health over time, and call them 'Energy Drinks'
*You could learn destruction and cast spells that break your opponents' weapons during fights so that the fight becomes a pure fist fight.
*Perhaps you're out to prove that you can fight with your fists as well as anybody can fight with a sword. Be creative!

Tada! This new version was rushed, because I have to go soon, but I hope you get the idea. So, who approves of this?
[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 21:33, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

User:Ninja Hinder/My rpSandbox

2010-03-27T21:28:19Z

Ninja Hinder: New Boxer

===Template===
'''Character Type'''

*Race: What ones are the best for the character, what ones aren't, and why.
*Class: What specializations and skills are best for roleplaying the character. A Thief doesn't need Heavy Armor. Almost 100% of the time, a custom class with up to 7 skill suggestions will be shown.
*Looks: This doesn't matter as much. This area specifies whether character might need a beard, or have to look neat, or if they'd usually have to be a male or female.

'''Equipment'''

Suggests what sort of equipment the specific character would need. Lockpicks for a Thief, staffs for a Wizard, swords for a Knight. This section may also say what equipment the character shouldn't have, and what kind of things they would take as loot or to wear.
*Clothes:
*Food:
*Weapons/Armor:
*Other:

'''Backstory'''

This area outlines why the character is what it is. This section can be very large or small, depending on how freeform the idea is. It should at least explain what the character is, allies and enemies of the character, and what it does. This section can also provide suggestions of a starting story for the character, certain quirks about it, and motives for what it does.

'''Ideas/Activities'''

This is not a bulleted list of everything that this character does, but instead should be treated as a few suggestions and ideas to give a clear example of what the character does. The reader should do a couple of these things with their character so that they know what the character does and how it acts towards people.

===Boxer===
'''Character Type'''

*Race: For a traditional boxer, the human races work best, especially Redguard and Imperial. Any race is fine though.
*Class: You'll want to specialize in combat. The essential skills for a boxer are Hand to Hand, Athletics, and Block. Anything else is up to you.
*Looks: You might want your character to look beat up, with a slightly disfigured face.

'''Equipment'''

*Clothes: A male boxer just needs pants and some good shoes. Outside matches, a boxer would wear clothes for any social class, depending on how much money the boxer has.
*Food: Any boxer should have a healthy diet consisting of plenty of meat, vegetables, and water. Water? Make a potion with a Restore Fatigue effect, and name it Water (Or buy one) and drink it regularly. You can use the Duplication Glitch for infinite water.
*Weapons/Armor: Of course, this character fights with his fists for a weapon. However, you may want to put leather gauntlets on him/her instead of proper boxing gloves. Since most of your fighting will be done in the IC Arena, you'll have to wear the Light or Heavy Raiment.
*Other: Outside of the arena, you are basically a normal citizen.

'''Backstory'''
Boxers are trained fighters who fight for entertainment across the world. They usually fight inside a square ring, and with special gloves to make sure that their hands and other body parts aren't too injured during matches. Rules in a boxing match vary from league to league, but usually, the person who has the most physical strength and fleetness of foot wins. As a boxer in Cyrodiil, you'll be in the only fight league there is. The Imperial City Arena. You have no enemies or allies that you don't make yourself, and if you become arena champion, you'll have a lot of fans. Remember, Boxers train a lot and entertain the masses!

'''Ideas/Activities'''
*Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.
*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.
*You can learn alchemy and make potions that restore your fatigue and health over time, and call them 'Energy Drinks'
*You could learn destruction and cast spells that break your opponents' weapons during fights so that the fight becomes a pure fist fight.
*Perhaps you're out to prove that you can fight with your fists as well as anybody can fight with a sword. Be creative!

===Boxer===
*Create a male Redguard, Nord, Orc, or Khajiit with Hand to Hand, Speechcraft, Athletics, Light Armor, Block, and whatever else as major skills, choose combat as their specialty, and Strength and Endurance as preferred attributes.

*Steal the Bands of Kwang Lao from the two Arena combatants practicing outside the Arena. This will fortify your Hand to Hand skill by 20 points, which helps a lot. The first thing you must do is join the Arena in the Imperial City. Live in the Imperial City; spend most of your time there.

When you're not in combat in the Arena, wear a pair of pants that are either your training pants, (some simple cloth pants most lower-class characters wear) or some enchanted light armor greaves with Fortify Fatigue or Hand to Hand. When in the Arena, wear the Light Raiment. As expected, box your opponents to death. You can use a Disintegrate Weapon spell to force the Arena combatants to fight you in a legitimate boxing match.

Never wear shoes. Or a shirt, most of the time. You can often wear some wristbands however. Make many Restore Fatigue potions called Energy Drink. When you are punching someone and you are running out of Fatigue, drink them.

*Focus on building up your Hand-to-Hand as your sole all-effective combat skill. Whenever you run into bandits or animals on the road, beat them to death. Frequently head out into the woods or inside Ayleid Ruins as training. Beat everything to death in Hackdirt, conjurers in ruins, or necromancers in caves. With the Fighters Stronghold download, you can train with your Orc friend as he never dies and regenerates health.

* {{pc22}}If you have the PC version, beat up essential NPCS, knock them unconscious, rinse, repeat, then delete the bounty and hostility with the console. This also works if you have the Staff of the Everscamp, which grants you unlimited scamps to beat up. Another good training technique is at [[Oblivion:Peryite|Peryite's Shrine]] (check page to see and prevent bug) because you don't get a bounty for hitting them and they never die.

==Skooma Addict==
[[Image:OB-npc-J'zin-Dar.jpg|thumb|right|A skooma addict at the Skooma Den]]
*Obtain a lot of [[Oblivion:Skooma|Skooma]] (Can be bought from [[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] just outside of [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]]. Or [[Oblivion:Nordinor|Nordinor]] at midnight in [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]].)
*Hang out in the Skooma Den in Bravil.

'''Character type'''
*This is a pretty freeform idea, but sneak, athletics, and acrobatics is recommended.
*Khajiit and Argonian work the best, for obvious reasons.

'''Equipment'''
*SKOOMA!!!!!!
*Very, very trashy clothes, prison work best, unless you are a respected community member, then high class would work.

'''Story'''
You are the lowest of the low, an illegal drug addict, and most likely a felon, too. But you are addicted, and nobody cares what 'Confessions of a Skooma Addict' says, you're going to stay that way.

'''Ideas'''

*Get money to buy Skooma any way you can. Remember, Skooma is all that matters to you.
*Act crazy. Jump off of high buildings, punch people in the face, follow somebody for hours and then talk to them...
*Wear mismatched clothes (or none at all).
*Choose if you want to be a harmless addict (just annoying people) or a dangerous addict (Start fights, and if you're a really dangerous one - murder people).
*Go on drug binges. Ingest some of that sweet Skooma, and do something you'll regret when the City Guard arrests you. Such as stealing silver right in front of the local count/countess.
*This and the Skooma Dealer can be switched out with [[Shivering:Greenmote|Greenmote]] or [[Shivering:Felldew|Felldew]] Addicts or Dealers if you have the Shivering Isles expansion.
*Since Skooma is all that matters, you could murder or pickpocket your fellow addicts at the den to get more!
*Eventually, the Skooma will run out. Think about how your character would deal with this, and perhaps how he earns money to buy Skooma.
*Your character doesn't have to be a full on addict. He could be a respect bodyguard, ranger, doctor or noble, and only indulge once a week or every night.
*You are going to need some money to afford this lifestlye, so consider having a real job. Or just steal everything.
*Occasionally, or frequently, depending on your character, chug as much skooma as possible, and run around the countryside, maybe punching every living thing you see once. Think about what crazy thing your character does when under the affects!

User:Ninja Hinder/My rpSandbox

2010-03-27T20:41:45Z

Ninja Hinder: Fixing things

==Template==
'''Character Type'''

*Race: What ones are the best for the character, what ones aren't, and why.
*Class: What specializations and skills are best for roleplaying the character. A Thief doesn't need Heavy Armor. Almost 100% of the time, a custom class with up to 7 skill suggestions will be shown.
*Looks: This doesn't matter as much. This area specifies whether character might need a beard, or have to look neat, or if they'd usually have to be a male or female.

'''Equipment'''

Suggests what sort of equipment the specific character would need. Lockpicks for a Thief, staffs for a Wizard, swords for a Knight. This section may also say what equipment the character shouldn't have, and what kind of things they would take as loot or to wear.
*Clothes:
*Food:
*Weapons/Armor:
*Other:

'''Backstory'''

This area outlines why the character is what it is. This section can be very large or small, depending on how freeform the idea is. It should at least explain what the character is, allies and enemies of the character, and what it does. This section can also provide suggestions of a starting story for the character, certain quirks about it, and motives for what it does.

'''Ideas/Activities'''

This is not a bulleted list of everything that this character does, but instead should be treated as a few suggestions and ideas to give a clear example of what the character does. The reader should do a couple of these things with their character so that they know what the character does and how it acts towards people.

==Skooma Addict==
[[Image:OB-npc-J'zin-Dar.jpg|thumb|right|A skooma addict at the Skooma Den]]
*Obtain a lot of [[Oblivion:Skooma|Skooma]] (Can be bought from [[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] just outside of [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]]. Or [[Oblivion:Nordinor|Nordinor]] at midnight in [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]].)
*Hang out in the Skooma Den in Bravil.

'''Character type'''
*This is a pretty freeform idea, but sneak, athletics, and acrobatics is recommended.
*Khajiit and Argonian work the best, for obvious reasons.

'''Equipment'''
*SKOOMA!!!!!!
*Very, very trashy clothes, prison work best, unless you are a respected community member, then high class would work.

'''Story'''
You are the lowest of the low, an illegal drug addict, and most likely a felon, too. But you are addicted, and nobody cares what 'Confessions of a Skooma Addict' says, you're going to stay that way.

'''Ideas'''

*Get money to buy Skooma any way you can. Remember, Skooma is all that matters to you.
*Act crazy. Jump off of high buildings, punch people in the face, follow somebody for hours and then talk to them...
*Wear mismatched clothes (or none at all).
*Choose if you want to be a harmless addict (just annoying people) or a dangerous addict (Start fights, and if you're a really dangerous one - murder people).
*Go on drug binges. Ingest some of that sweet Skooma, and do something you'll regret when the City Guard arrests you. Such as stealing silver right in front of the local count/countess.
*This and the Skooma Dealer can be switched out with [[Shivering:Greenmote|Greenmote]] or [[Shivering:Felldew|Felldew]] Addicts or Dealers if you have the Shivering Isles expansion.
*Since Skooma is all that matters, you could murder or pickpocket your fellow addicts at the den to get more!
*Eventually, the Skooma will run out. Think about how your character would deal with this, and perhaps how he earns money to buy Skooma.
*Your character doesn't have to be a full on addict. He could be a respect bodyguard, ranger, doctor or noble, and only indulge once a week or every night.
*You are going to need some money to afford this lifestlye, so consider having a real job. Or just steal everything.
*Occasionally, or frequently, depending on your character, chug as much skooma as possible, and run around the countryside, maybe punching every living thing you see once. Think about what crazy thing your character does when under the affects!

User:Ninja Hinder/My rpSandbox

2010-03-27T20:36:43Z

Ninja Hinder: Made an example/template/format for ideas.

==Template==
'''Character Type'''
''Race:'' What ones are the best for the character, what ones aren't, and why.
''Class:'' What specializations and skills are best for roleplaying the character. A Thief doesn't need Heavy Armor. Almost 100% of the time, a custom class with up to 7 skill suggestions will be shown.
''Looks:'' This doesn't matter as much. This area specifies whether character might need a beard, or have to look neat, or if they'd usually have to be a male or female.

'''Equipment'''
Suggests what sort of equipment the specific character would need. Lockpicks for a Thief, staffs for a Wizard, swords for a Knight. This section may also say what equipment the character shouldn't have, and what kind of things they would take as loot or to wear.
*Clothes:
*Food:
*Weapons/Armor:
*Other:

'''Backstory'''
This area outlines why the character is what it is. This section can be very large or small, depending on how freeform the idea is. It should at least explain what the character is, allies and enemies of the character, and what it does. This section can also provide suggestions of a starting story for the character, certain quirks about it, and motives for what it does.

'''Ideas/Activities'''
This is not a bulleted list of everything that this character does, but instead should be treated as a few suggestions and ideas to give a clear example of what the character does. The reader should do a couple of these things with their character so that they know what the character does and how it acts towards people.

==Skooma Addict==
[[Image:OB-npc-J'zin-Dar.jpg|thumb|right|A skooma addict at the Skooma Den]]
*Obtain a lot of [[Oblivion:Skooma|Skooma]] (Can be bought from [[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] just outside of [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]]. Or [[Oblivion:Nordinor|Nordinor]] at midnight in [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]].)
*Hang out in the Skooma Den in Bravil.

'''Character type'''
*This is a pretty freeform idea, but sneak, athletics, and acrobatics is recommended.
*Khajiit and Argonian work the best, for obvious reasons.

'''Equipment'''
*SKOOMA!!!!!!
*Very, very trashy clothes, prison work best, unless you are a respected community member, then high class would work.

'''Story'''
You are the lowest of the low, an illegal drug addict, and most likely a felon, too. But you are addicted, and nobody cares what 'Confessions of a Skooma Addict' says, you're going to stay that way.

'''Ideas'''

*Get money to buy Skooma any way you can. Remember, Skooma is all that matters to you.
*Act crazy. Jump off of high buildings, punch people in the face, follow somebody for hours and then talk to them...
*Wear mismatched clothes (or none at all).
*Choose if you want to be a harmless addict (just annoying people) or a dangerous addict (Start fights, and if you're a really dangerous one - murder people).
*Go on drug binges. Ingest some of that sweet Skooma, and do something you'll regret when the City Guard arrests you. Such as stealing silver right in front of the local count/countess.
*This and the Skooma Dealer can be switched out with [[Shivering:Greenmote|Greenmote]] or [[Shivering:Felldew|Felldew]] Addicts or Dealers if you have the Shivering Isles expansion.
*Since Skooma is all that matters, you could murder or pickpocket your fellow addicts at the den to get more!
*Eventually, the Skooma will run out. Think about how your character would deal with this, and perhaps how he earns money to buy Skooma.
*Your character doesn't have to be a full on addict. He could be a respect bodyguard, ranger, doctor or noble, and only indulge once a week or every night.
*You are going to need some money to afford this lifestlye, so consider having a real job. Or just steal everything.
*Occasionally, or frequently, depending on your character, chug as much skooma as possible, and run around the countryside, maybe punching every living thing you see once. Think about what crazy thing your character does when under the affects!

User:Ninja Hinder/My rpSandbox

2010-03-27T20:17:41Z

Ninja Hinder: Deleted ideas that have been posted/ won't be posted.

==Skooma Addict==
[[Image:OB-npc-J'zin-Dar.jpg|thumb|right|A skooma addict at the Skooma Den]]
*Obtain a lot of [[Oblivion:Skooma|Skooma]] (Can be bought from [[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] just outside of [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]]. Or [[Oblivion:Nordinor|Nordinor]] at midnight in [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]].)
*Hang out in the Skooma Den in Bravil.

'''Character type'''
*This is a pretty freeform idea, but sneak, athletics, and acrobatics is recommended.
*Khajiit and Argonian work the best, for obvious reasons.

'''Equipment'''
*SKOOMA!!!!!!
*Very, very trashy clothes, prison work best, unless you are a respected community member, then high class would work.

'''Story'''
You are the lowest of the low, an illegal drug addict, and most likely a felon, too. But you are addicted, and nobody cares what 'Confessions of a Skooma Addict' says, you're going to stay that way.

'''Ideas'''

*Get money to buy Skooma any way you can. Remember, Skooma is all that matters to you.
*Act crazy. Jump off of high buildings, punch people in the face, follow somebody for hours and then talk to them...
*Wear mismatched clothes (or none at all).
*Choose if you want to be a harmless addict (just annoying people) or a dangerous addict (Start fights, and if you're a really dangerous one - murder people).
*Go on drug binges. Ingest some of that sweet Skooma, and do something you'll regret when the City Guard arrests you. Such as stealing silver right in front of the local count/countess.
*This and the Skooma Dealer can be switched out with [[Shivering:Greenmote|Greenmote]] or [[Shivering:Felldew|Felldew]] Addicts or Dealers if you have the Shivering Isles expansion.
*Since Skooma is all that matters, you could murder or pickpocket your fellow addicts at the den to get more!
*Eventually, the Skooma will run out. Think about how your character would deal with this, and perhaps how he earns money to buy Skooma.
*Your character doesn't have to be a full on addict. He could be a respect bodyguard, ranger, doctor or noble, and only indulge once a week or every night.
*You are going to need some money to afford this lifestlye, so consider having a real job. Or just steal everything.
*Occasionally, or frequently, depending on your character, chug as much skooma as possible, and run around the countryside, maybe punching every living thing you see once. Think about what crazy thing your character does when under the affects!

User talk:Ninja Hinder

2010-03-26T01:20:56Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Thoughts? */ reply

== Welcome ==

Hello Ninja Hinder! Welcome to the wiki. I hope you enjoy using the site and find the information on it useful. If you decide you want to help improve any of our pages, we're always welcoming to new editors so feel free. You might want to look at our [[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]] page for some tips on how to begin, then play in our [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|Sandbox]] for a while to practice. If you need any help or advice, please ask one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentors|mentors]]. Enjoy! –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 00:53, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== My Fanfiction ==
Click on Move at the top of the page to change it, and are you talking about userboxes? [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 22:48, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
Oh and would you like me to fix the spelling on your fanfiction? I'd be happy to do that. [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 22:51, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Yeah I'd like that, and yes i'm talking about userboxes. I would also like to know how to make boxes on the side of the screen. (I.e) Glarthirs HP and Responsibility box. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:21, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

:The way i would do that is to find an example of what you are looking for and then edit the page. Copy the thing you want paste it into your page, and make any changes you want. As for userboxes go i just looked at others pages and found which ones i needed, then copied them onto my page. Hope that helps. [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 00:06, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

::Spelling checked and fixed, main thing was legionairre, should be spelled legionnaire. Easy to miss. Also "Strided" should have been strode. Fixed also. Great story by the way, keep me updated on it! [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 00:14, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for the spellcheck, I'm thinking of chronicling 'Nevilles' earlier addventures, as soon as I figure out his real name =) [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 00:49, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

I liked this one, the vilverin battle was great, one thing was you mixed past and present tense quite a bit, i changed it all to past tense, otherwise, very well done. [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 12:36, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

It's compliments from people who like my stories that drive me to write. By the way, you can look in My projects header to see updates on my fanfiction. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 13:31, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Neville says he was at fort frostmoth, two redguards were there. Maybe his real name is Raccan or Jeleen. Probably Raccan, as he was an imperial legion agent, and from the whodunnit? article on neville "Though even equipped in his IMPERIAL LEGION armor he is laughably easy to kil" [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 19:36, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

You forgot that 'Neville' isn't really Neville, so he lied when he said that. He is really a store owner in the IC we all know and love. (Hint: starts with a P.) You see, retired Imperial legionnaire was just his cover story. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:07, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

"Agent Phintias." Or maybe, "Infiltration"? [[User:71.112.212.138|71.112.212.138]] 13:41, 1 September 2008 (EDT)
Sorry i wasn't signed in [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 13:53, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

No! He must be [[Oblivion:Curtis|Curtis]]! Check it out, he doesn't appear in the game, and in his own words says "I'm nobody". [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 19:51, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

You want me to redo my whole character, then? Or maybe Phintias and Curtis are just two of his Idenetities? [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:06, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Ahh... three identities, perfect! [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 22:32, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Oblivion ==
== Off topic ==
I have no idea where to put stuff on this page, probably because I'm dense. Anyway, thanks for adding to the Wilderness Dweller page. I contributed a lot to that page and it's always nice to see new stuff. Have a good one! =) [[User:IWon'tFightUndead|IWon'tFightUndead]] 20:47, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Thanks! [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 21:22, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Morrowind ==
Hey, I just wanted to say hi, and that I created a morrowind gripes page. Don't know why, but i just wanted to. Thats all folks! [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 21:57, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Well hello crowbar. I today made a Morrowind character, so I'll check it out. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:17, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Questions ==

== Fan Fiction ==

thanks to your inspiration, I have created a fanfic. It can be read [[User:Crowbar/Escape|here]] [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 18:44, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

It's interesting, that was sort of what I felt when I started Oblivion. You should keep em' coming if you can, but try to make em' longer [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 01:26, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Alright. Thanks. [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 10:40, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

I took your advice and rewrote it, it can be read [[User:Crowbar/Prison|here]] [[User:Crowbar|Crowbar]] 14:24, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

I really like your attention to detail. Detail and mood are my trouble spots, so maybe I can learn from you. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 15:11, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

== Good job ==

[[Image:Fishystick.jpg|thumb|left|[[User:M'aiq the Liar|Maiq]] wishes he had a stick made out of fishies to give to you. Sadly, he does not.]]

{{NewLine}}
== Stubs ==

Hi Ninja,

I just wanted to say that if you think that a stub tag should be removed, then remove it and add the reason to your edit summary. You don't need to bother discuss it on the talk page unless someone reverts your edit. - [[User:Game_Lord|Game Lord]][[User_talk:Game_Lord|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Game_Lord|Contribs]] 10:30, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Got it. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:29, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Story ==

ive just logged for for the first time in like 2 months and got ur message, since its bin a long time i was just wondering... are u still looking for some1 to do tht story? il b happy to help

I was hoping you would. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 15:53, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

ive got it all finished in ur sandbox hope u like it :)

== The closing days ==

Hi, as you might have seen, I have started with the [[user:goblin lair/Sandbox1.2/The closing days|story]]. Could you take a look at the spelling and grammar of what I have added so far?

- [[User:goblin lair|Goblin lair]] 18:17, 13 November 2008

Hi I have now added some more to the story. Would you mind taking a look at the spelling and grammar? - [[user:goblin lair|Goblin lair]] 15:24, 17 December 2008

Yeah. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 16:46, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks! -[[user:goblin lair|Goblin lair]] 19:51, 18 December 2008

== your fan fiction stories ==

Just wanted to say, your fan fiction stories are really good. I like the way you tie them all into each other. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 10:16, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks! Thats what I really want to hear. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 13:03, 26 November 2008 (EST)

== The Story Of Junsten Spelling And Grammer Reply ==

Hi I would just like to say it would be a good help if you fixed any spelling or grammer mistakes if theres anything i could help you with i will. Thanks for the help.
[[User:Sliter|Sliter]] 17:06, 26 December 2008 (EST) [[User:Sliter|Sliter]]

== My User Page ==

I remember when you were telling me about my fanfiction spelling and grammer you said about I can create a user page and I have your in my acknowlegdements section [[User:Sliter|Sliter]] 12:27, 1 January 2009 (EST)Sliter

== Testing Sandbox ==

Hi Ninja Hinder! I just saw that you've put your [[User:Ninja_Hinder/My_testingSandbox|testing sandbox]] up for deletion. Since it is your personal page, you can request to have it immediately deleted instead of waiting the customary seven days. I can do it for you now if you're sure you'd like for the page to be deleted. Just let me know! –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 20:55, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

== Goblin Lair's Abagarlas ==

hi, goblin hasnt replied yet but ive asked him if u might be able to help his creature abagarlas (because ur great at edits/grammer and im sure u could help improve it =D he hasnt actually replied yet ^^ but i dont think he'll really say no to another person heavily involved in helping his project.

'''In short, if Goblin Lair agrees, do u want to join the [[User:Goblin_lair/Sandbox/Abagarlas|Abagarlas]] project?''' {{unsigned|Tabloes|27 July 2009}}

== I'm back ==

Hey, I just wanted to tell you that I'm going to be on the site more often, since I'm going to start playing Oblivion again. I might not be on every day, but more often. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 23:35, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

== Back ==

Wow, you haven't done anything in so long, but now your page looks awesome! --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 01:55, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

== Infernal City novel ==

Are you going to read that new Elder Scrolls novel "The Infernal City"? I did, and it's very good. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:32, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

I haven't been to a bookstore in years. When do you think it will hit the local libraries? [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 03:12, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
:Good question. I got it off of Amazon. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 15:09, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

It's doubtful that I'll buy it, and I didn't ask for it as a Christmas present. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 05:54, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

== A question about fanfic names ==

Hi, I've noticed you really like Fanfics, so I have a question for you about [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/S'arad'sRevenge|my next fanfic]]; I want to create an Imperial guy, but I am deciding between two names: Artimus or Septimus. which one do you like better? Thanks!--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 20:21, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Artimus seems like a rip from the Greek god Artemis... While Septimus is a certain rip from my late best friend Uriel...
I'd like something in older Imperial, like Tiber, Drake, or Rannien. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 00:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah but I noticed that Imperials have alot of names ending in ''us'' (Ancus, Contumilorius, Tutius, Rallus, Garrus, Galtus, Velus, Tertius...ect.) so I wanted to stick to that. But Artimus = Artemis, I beleive Artemis is the goddess of the hunt, which fits perfect for the bounty hunters. I didn't even realize that Septimus had "Septim" in it, It just means 7th son, and I thought is sounded cool :)

P.S. Mathius is in S'arad's Revenge (link above)--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 01:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

== One last thing about Mathius ==

Hey, I was wondering if I could change Mathius's race to a breton. I understand if you say no (and I'm expecting you to,) but I already have one Imperial in the party and I want a little variety. It wouldn't change anything except some diolouge. (yeah, he's gonna be the new hunter) --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 01:52, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Meh, it's your story. Do what you want with him. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:22, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

== Thoughts? ==

Sorry about asking you all these questions about fanfics- really. You just seem to like them. Do you have any thoughts on [[User:Arch-Mage Matt/EscapetoValenwood|this fanfic]]?

Note: It is a *weency* bit long.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 01:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I actually love getting new messages. A lot. Now, wow. That fanfic was fast, complicated, and hard to follow, not to mention quite a few spelling mistakes. If you want this better, fix the spelling mistakes and make a prequel that explains all of the characters. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 16:40, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

::Well, thanks for being blunt (:p), it's really just starting out (I made it just yesterday, I suspect it will be several weeks until it is perfect.) But I am asking if you like the idea of total war in Cyrodill, as well as all these new characters I have made (Edward, Fjor, Ahsi, Raenellian, Selene, and Asgrin.) as well as the roles of the existing charecters ([[Oblivion:Caelia Draconis|Caelia]], [[Oblivion:Adamus Phillida|Adamus]], [[Oblivion:Hieronymus Lex|Lex]], and [[Oblivion:Antoinetta Marie|Antoinetta]].) But the story will get more clear, mostly Athras was just an intro character and actually be killed shortly after.

P.S What explaining about the characters do you need?--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 19:16, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Uhh, there's just so many characters... It's hard to remember them all without proper backstory. With a fanfic, you should have too many characters until you're very experienced at making them memorable. I do like the idea of a total war in Cyrodiil, although total wars are hard to write. It'll be epic if you can pull it off. I can give you a longer opinion of your characters if I knew more about them. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 00:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

::Well, you '''should''' already know about the in-game characters, but yeah, I will try to make people (especially Fjor, Edward, Selene, and Asgrim,) more special. As i said, I didn't give much info on Athras because he will be killed along with most other DB members very soon in the story. I'd say by tomorrow I'll ask you to look back on them with more info I have provided. By the way did you read the updates I put on it right after I made the last reply?--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 00:46, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I have now. It's good. Just keep writing. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 01:20, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Ninja Hinder

2010-03-26T00:17:21Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Thoughts? */ Reply

User talk:Ninja Hinder

2010-03-25T16:40:32Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Thoughts? */ Reply

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt/S'arad'sRevenge

2010-03-15T02:51:15Z

Ninja Hinder: Fixing things

Alright! Good to see some story up that fast. Nice job on it too. Just want you to know that Infernal City is a story for us real people, but for Zane it'd be a historical account. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 00:56, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah I know thats why its under ''Easter Eggs''. Thanks for reading.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 01:04, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Hey, in the list of crimes it lists Yusaris by name... But how would they know his name, since he's a secret, shadowy criminal, and all? I think that when the bounty hunters read the part about Eitoms in the book, it should say that his identity is unknown because he's just that good. But, every time his...syndicate performs a crime, they leave a certain calling card, like a black feather, on the bodies or in place of stolen merchandise so that people know it's them. The crime logs can say that the shopkeeper was found dead with a black feather (Or any other calling card you can think of) on him. This way, the bounty hunters know that Yusaris or one of his mates did it without giving away his identity. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 02:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt/S'arad'sRevenge

2010-03-15T02:50:25Z

Ninja Hinder: Reply

Alright! Good to see some story up that fast. Nice job on it too. Just want you to know that Infernal City is a story for us real people, but for Zane it'd be a historical account. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 00:56, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah I know thats why its under ''Easter Eggs''. Thanks for reading.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 01:04, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Hey, in the list of crimes it lists Yusaris by name... But how would they know his name, since he's a secret, shadowy criminal, and all. I think that when the bounty hunters read part about Eitoms in the book, it should say that his identity is unknown because he's just that good. But, every time his...syndicate performs a crime, they leave a certain calling card, like a black feather, on the bodies or in place of stolen merchandise so that people know it's them. The crime logs can say that the shopkeeper was found dead with a black feather (Or any other calling card you can think of) on him. This way, the bounty hunters know that Yusaris or one of his mates did it without giving away his identity. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 02:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Ninja Hinder

2010-03-14T18:22:46Z

Ninja Hinder: /* One last thing about Mathius */ Reply

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt/S'arad'sRevenge

2010-03-11T00:56:46Z

Ninja Hinder: Created page with 'Alright! Good to see some story up that fast. Nice job on it too. Just want you to know that Infernal City is a story for us real people, but for Zane it'd be a historical accoun...'

User talk:Ninja Hinder

2010-03-09T00:28:06Z

Ninja Hinder: /* A question about fanfic names */ Adding tag.

User talk:Ninja Hinder

2010-03-09T00:27:46Z

Ninja Hinder: /* A question about fanfic names */ Reply

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt

2010-03-04T02:52:06Z

Ninja Hinder: /* In need of characters? */ new section

== Welcome ==

Hello Arch-Mage Matt! Welcome to the wiki. I hope you enjoy using the site and find the information on it useful. If you decide you want to help improve any of our pages, we're always welcoming to new editors so feel free. You might want to look at our [[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]] page for some tips on how to begin, then play in our [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|Sandbox]] for a while to practice. If you need any help or advice, please ask one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentors|mentors]]. Enjoy! –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 21:38, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

== High-Agression NPCs ==

Hi there! I saw your message on rpeh's page and thought I would give you some feedback on your sandbox article.

First of all, I'm not sure such a page would be considered useful by most users, but that's for the community to decide. Any NPC will attack you if their disposition toward you is lower than their aggression, while NPCs with an aggression of 100 will attack you on sight anyway. Second, why list every NPC with an aggression greater than 6? It seems like a random guideline, and you'll end up with basically a list of every NPC in the game. Like I said, any NPC will attack you when their disposition gets too low, so a page listing them all seems a little redundant.

If anything, we could consider adding a category for "hostile" NPCs who attack the player on sight, but I'm not sure that's necessary either, since those NPCs are sort of designed to be hard to avoid.

I appreciate your interest in improving the site, but I'm not sure if this article will be worth your time and effort. You might consider taking a look at our [[UESPWiki:Task List|task list]] or one of our several project pages for other ways you can help out :). –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 22:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

: I agree with Eshe. I also hate to say it, but we could generate such a page in just a few seconds by grabbing data direct from the game files. The Task List is a good place to get ideas, so see if there's anything that takes your fancy. –[[User:Rpeh|rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 04:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

== Hi ==

Hey man, I see that you have not done Umbaccano's quests. You get a lot of money if you do them and the Statues locations are right here on the Wiki. Just thought I would make conversation since you seem to want to talk to someone lol --[[User:Kri-Dar|Kri-Dar]] 16:57, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
:Yea I will eventually get around to it, but I play on the xbox so i would have to write the locations and direstions down... a little too much work. On another note, why do you think I want to talk to someone? (confused)--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 00:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you want to talk to someone because you have two parts on your User Page saying people should talk to you. Don't take it to heart I am just guessing, you might not want to talk to anyone (except yourself but thats ok lol). If you have a printer then you can just print out the wiki page that has the locations and names of the ruins. I did it by myself without directions and had a lot of fun doing it but thats just me and Oblivion Addiction (everyone has some level of it trust me :D) --[[User:Kri-Dar|Kri-Dar]] 11:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
:I think you're over-reading my userpage, I just know alot about oblivion. But I think I will try it with one of my charecters.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 13:51, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== [[user:Corevette789|Corevette789's]] response ==

I think the player, but if not him then M'aiq the Liar because of his infinite knowledge of everything.--[[User:Corevette789|Corevette789]] 03:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
:Okay guys stop it there, this is ''not'' a forum, for that you are free to use the [http://forums.uesp.net/ official forum], where it is more appropriate to make this kind of posts. I have been watching this theead for a few weeks now, and I haven't said anything because it wasn't much of a problem, but I'm afraid that if I don't say anything ''now'' this could keep going, so please leave it there. --[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 04:22, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
:Ooooookay... I thought this was just a personal thing... Sorry... --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 01:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

== In need of characters? ==

Okay. New bounty hunter.

Mathius. (29, male Imperial Rogue)

Won't give out his last name because he's hiding from the law. He's a former DB member with good assassination skills and experience. Eventually changed his ways and tried to become a normal citizen, but he can't ever show his face to any guards. Likes to use nightshade to kill victims. Won't like the brash Orc in the party too much.

New mark:

The Adoring Fan.
(Stalking, trespassing, consorting with criminals)

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt/fanfic

2010-03-04T02:39:48Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Nice! */

=='''Add comments if you want! (Anything, I dont mind if you say its terrible)'''==

== My fingers hurt ==

I just fixed a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes in the story. I am eagerly awaiting the rest of the story ;) --[[User:Kri-Dar|Kri-Dar]] 23:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
:Thanks for that, I was planning to do that at the end of the story.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 18:14, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

== Nice! ==

This is a great fanfic. I like the idea of a team of bounty hunters. Perhaps in a sequel you could have a rival team?
[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 02:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt/fanfic

2010-03-04T02:39:27Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Nice! */ new section

User:Ninja Hinder/My rpSandbox

2010-02-15T21:40:54Z

Ninja Hinder: Spelling/grammar

== Dunedain Rangers ==

Dunedain Rangers are the lost men of the Dunedain, now Orsinium. When roleplaying as a Dunedain Ranger you rarely make contact with the major cities and such, some times appearing from time to time.

'''Character Type'''
This character will focus on stealth, and some steel, to make it's way through life, no magic, unless you are really inclined toward the arcane. Make a character, Any race except Argonian, Khajiit, Orc, and Nord, do not make good types.
His/Her Skills will be, Marksman(Duh), Athletics(to run fast), Acrobatics(To jump high), Blade(For those close encounters when you need a dagger), and Sneak(For hunting, and perhaps an illegal activity or two), There are extra spaces, and you can swap out Athletics and Acrobatics with: Alchemy, Security, Light Armor, Speechcraft, Mercantile, and if you want magic, Highly unrecommended, Illusion, Restoration, and Alteration work the best. Don't forget armorer if you want to live off the land.

'''Equipment'''
*Obviously, a bow, preferably silver, elven if you are an Elf, Glass, or Daedric, if you're evil, or use Bound bow glitch. *Don't use Ebony or Dwarven, or Orcish, since they took your land.
*A dagger, silver or under, preferably, since you probably wouldn't have a high dagger fund.
*Low-class clothes, or leather, fur in the cold, and shrouded if you're evil.
*Poisons for hunting, and an edge in combat.
*Lockpicks, plenty of em.
*Food. Meat, and fruit, and no fish or crab, as a matter of principle.
*Arrows, Silver if you're bow is not, if you're bow is, do Elven or Steel.

'''Backstory'''

The Dunedain Rangers were grim in life, appearance, and dress. They wore low-class clothes, with little armor, if any. The Rangers of the Grey Company wore grey hoods and openly used a silver brooch shaped like a pointed star. These Rangers rode rough-haired, sturdy horses. The Grey Companions depended highly on cities for their goods. The Rangers of the Green Company wore green brocade doublets, and used silver bows or arrows. They never rode horses, and lived off the land. The independent rangers lived off the land wearing whatever they want, and using whatever bow they wanted.

'''Ideas'''

*Pretend you are an independent, since the companies died off, or the last member of the grey or green company.
*You are the last one of your race whom have passed on to legend keep the Dunedain name alive by surviving, perhaps recruiting an apprentice to further Dunedain's greatness when you are gone.
*Dress and travel in beaten clothes (Loose fitting low-class clothes, middle clas when you're in town).
*In times of suspicion, don't visit towns, hide in a cave, or a determined base. (Isolated house can be your HQ, providing income with the bandit's loot that respawns there.)
*Keep a bow at your side at all times.
*Defend your name, the Rangers weren't aligned with any gods or sides, they lived how they pleased, and made great names for themselves. To increase your prestige, gain fame/infamy, perform self-made quests for citizens during you're monthly trip to town, and make self-made quests that involve you doing importants things, you can pay yourself with the duplication glitch.
*You could start you're own company, situated at the Isolated house, a bandit camp, or a house, preferably Chorrol, as the guest rooms could be barracks, or the guard house since it has beds, equipment, and a training area. get followers, DB archer, and one or two other followers, and reverse-pickpocket a bound bow on them.

'''Trips to town'''
*Plan them, so yo don't have to show your face often, preferably once a month.
*Make them short, and to the point, unless there to get quests.
*Repair your weapons, or armor if you have any, it is recommended to try you're hand at Armorer, to repair on the fly
*Buy fruits, and some beer/ale/mead to live up the nights by the campfire with you're apprentice. You should be able to get all you're own meat from hunting, and food from foraging, or drop in by a farm and loot the place.
*Get new equipment, if you need it, and make sure you are stocked with arrows, and new clothes.
*Grab some books if you can.
*It is recommended you go into Bruma for you're trips, and can live on Gnoll mountain. Bruma has a clothes store, two armor stores, 3 places where you can buy food, and Ongar, who will get you lockpicks.

Remember, life as a ranger is hard and lonely.

== Freelance Bodyguard ==
Go to different towns and follow/protect important subjects, i.e. the Countess, Count, store owners, Town Guards that are off duty, etc. Appoint yourself as the Countess'/Count's personal bodyguard, even when they're just sitting their in their fluffy royal chairs, drinking up their fancy Shadowbanish.

Just follow these basic guidelines:
* Don't use a town's uniform as your own. Mix and match different types of armor to make something that looks cool.
* If you're feeling insecure about whether or not you're good enough, go ahead and bring some friends along to help.
*Set up shifts with the people you can command. You could guard from, say, 11:00 A.M. to 6:00 P.M., and then bring someone else (Knight of the Nine/Battlehorn-At-Arms) in to guard for the rest of the night.
*Always have your weapon equipped and ready to go, in case of ambushes.
*Secretly assassinate the Count's or Countess' current guards (the ones that stand by their chairs) and take their place near their throne as the new Guard of the Count and/or Countess.

===Guarding Store Owners===
*Inspect, talk to, and if your Blade or Blunt skill is high enough, disarm every citizen who walks in the store. To disarm them safely, just use the disarm move and then quickly yield.

*When doing this, you can guard the store itself, as well as the Store Owner:
**Make sure that no one rough houses.
**Make sure no one breaks anything or knocks anything over.
**Watch for criminals trying to steal and/or pickpocket others.
**Confront anyone who goes near the Store Owner's bedroom.

===Count/Countess Bodyguard.===
*Inspect, and talk to anybody who comes near the count/countess.
*Don't trust anybody.
*If you're guarding Mazoga the Orc, the count could assign you to kick her out of the castle. (Command humanoid)
*If Mazoga keeps coming back, you can lead her out, into some alleyway, and cripple her, or command humanoid her under the water, where she will drown.

===Everyday person bodyguard===
*Perhaps somebody hired you to be their guard, make sure this person is fairly rich, so they can actually pay you. (Use the duplication glitch.)
*Follow them around at day, and at when they turn in for the night, and ask you to leave, wait outside of their house.

===What to Wear?===

*The "Ancient Blades Helmet" from the main-storyline quest "Blood of the Divines" is a very suitable, not to mention ''tough-looking'' and ''wartorn'', helmet for use as a Freelance Bodyguard.
*Wear a enchanted chainmail cuirass Called 'Protector of _______'.
*A mix of light and heavy armor does good, without greaves.

==Skooma Addict==
[[Image:OB-NPC-J'zin-Dar.jpg|thumb|right|A skooma addict at the Skooma Den]]
*Obtain a lot of [[Oblivion:Skooma|Skooma]] (Can be bought from [[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] just outside of [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]]. Or [[Oblivion:Nordinor|Nordinor]] at midnight in [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]].)
*Hang out in the Skooma Den in Bravil.

'''Character type'''
*This is a pretty freeform idea, but sneak, athletics, and acrobatics is recommended.
*Khajiit and Argonian work the best, for obvious reasons.

'''Equipment'''
*SKOOMA!!!!!!
*Very, very trashy clothes, prison work best, unless you are a respected community member, then high class would work.

'''Story'''
You are the lowest of the low, an illegal drug addict, and most likely a felon, too. But you are addicted, and nobody cares what 'Confessions of a Skooma Addict' says, you're going to stay that way.

'''Ideas'''

*Get money to buy Skooma any way you can. Remember, Skooma is all that matters to you.
*Act crazy. Jump off of high buildings, punch people in the face, follow somebody for hours and then talk to them...
*Wear mismatched clothes (or none at all).
*Choose if you want to be a harmless addict (just annoying people) or a dangerous addict (Start fights, and if you're a really dangerous one - murder people).
*Go on drug binges. Ingest some of that sweet Skooma, and do something you'll regret when the City Guard arrests you. Such as stealing silver right in front of the local count/countess.
*This and the Skooma Dealer can be switched out with [[Shivering:Greenmote|Greenmote]] or [[Shivering:Felldew|Felldew]] Addicts or Dealers if you have the Shivering Isles expansion.
*Since Skooma is all that matters, you could murder or pickpocket your fellow addicts at the den to get more!
*Eventually, the Skooma will run out. Think about how your character would deal with this, and perhaps how he earns money to buy Skooma.
*Your character doesn't have to be a full on addict. He could be a respect bodyguard, ranger, doctor or noble, and only indulge once a week or every night.
*You are going to need some money to afford this lifestlye, so consider having a real job. Or just steal everything.
*Occasionally, or frequently, depending on your character, chug as much skooma as possible, and run around the countryside, maybe punching every living thing you see once. Think about what crazy thing your character does when under the affects!

==Exile/Extremist==
'''Character type'''
Any character could do, as long as they have the skills to put up a good fight. They must also be fast.

'''Story'''
You were kicked out of a town for any reason, or perhaps you ran out of that town with guards running after you. You hate them all; You want to kill them all. You march right into town and take whatever you want, and kill everybody who objects. You live by taking the food from towns, and live outside those towns. You easily kill the guards, and massacre the gaurd so when you wrong the citizenry, they only object in cries.

'''Equipment'''
Anything. As long as you didn't pay for it.

'''Ideas'''
*Camp outside your city in question, perhaps inside the stablehouse if you can, or somewhere around it.
*A good city for the is Chorrol, since it has no essential guards, and the Oak and Crosier has good food.
*A good opening story is going on a rampage in the Imperial City, and managing to escape with your life.
*There are many options for this:You can go stealth or steel, or even magic.
*You can fight for a cause. Say the Bravil Guard had cheated your dad out of his job or something, be creative.
*You could be a terrorist. This works well with Bravil. Since there is one entrance you can hold it unde siege, and use the stable house as your base. you could also raid Bravil, but make sure nobody escapes the city.
*Perhaps you run a terrorist organizagtion. Of course, that means the Imperial Rangers would be searching for you. Live in a stable, right under their noses!

User:Goblin lair/Sandbox1.2/The closing days

2010-02-03T23:22:05Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Chapter 2: Leyawiin */ Fixing spelling and grammar like I promised to

(This is the second part of [[User:Goblin lair/The Battle at Bruma|The battle at Bruma]])

===Chapter 1: ''Cheydinhal''===

It was a sunny morning a few days after Ulriz left Cloud Ruler Temple and he was walking up on the long road to Cheydinhal. In front of him he could see the high stone walls, with the Cheydinhal banners waving in the wind. As he got closer, the sky started turning darker. Yet just a few seconds ago, it was morning.

''What’s going on?'' Ulriz thought.

He started to walk a little faster up the road. A few moments later he was up at the gates and he entered the city. He walked straight up to the castle. There he found count Andel Indarys and on Andel's right stood a male Dunmer dressed in a royal suit. Ulriz thought that he looked a little crazy and rather creepy.

When there was a few meters between him and the count, he bowed, and not just a nod with his head, this was a more formal bow.

- '''You may stand up.''' Andel said.

- '''What is your business here young Imperial?''' He asked Ulriz.

- '''I am here to ask you to send reinforcements to Bruma, sire.''' Ulriz answered.

The crazy looking man that was standing next to the count bent down and whispered something to him.

- '''Very well.''' the Count continued when the Elf was done with the whispering.''' I would gladly help you but at the moment I need all of my men in town. It seems there is an Oblivion Gate, just outside the walls.''' The count continued.

- '''But, let us make a deal: you help us close the gate, and I’ll send the reinforcements that you have asked for. What do you think of that?''' The count asked.

- '''Seems fair to me. All right, I will help you close the gate sire.''' Ulriz said.

- '''Good, and Matval here will help you. Now go.''' Andel said and sent them both away.

Ulriz and the Dunmer, Matval, left the castle and Matval led the way to the gate. It seemed the gate opened just a few meters from the City walls, in front of a big house with banners over the walls. Around the oblivion gate, the Cheydinhal guards were standing with their weapons drawn. When they got closer they were stopped by a guard.

- '''Stop. No civilians are allowed to approach the gate, it’s too dangerous.''' The guard said.

- '''We were sent by the Count to help close the gate.''' Matval explained to the guard.

- '''Alright… move along then… but you should hurry; The Count’s son has entered and has been in there for a while now. We are getting a bit concerned about Farwil and his knights.''' The guard said and Ulriz and Matval started walking towards the gate again.

They entered. In front of them there was an apparently old road leading on into oblivion. They followed it and just around the first turn (to the right) they found a dead Thorn knight, an Imperial.

- '''His name was Cicero, he was a painter before he joined the Knights of the Thorn.''' Matval explaned.

- '''You knew him?''' Ulriz asked.

- '''No… but I knew he would not survive for long as a knight.''' Matval said with a grin.

They continued searching for Farwil, and along the road they found a few bodies of the Knights of Thorn. Every time they passed one of the dead knights, especially Imperials, Ulriz could hear Matval talk about that he had always known that the dead knight would end up as it did.

They followed the road, through a cave and arrived outside a huge tower. Between them and the tower there was a bridge, and on the bridge two men were standing in shiny steel armour. When Ulriz and Matval came up closer they could see that the two still living knights were Farwil and a Nord.

When they got closer, Farwil noticed them; he shined up and said:

- '''Reinforcements! At last!'''

The Nord walked to Matval and said a few words. Then Farwil continued:

- '''Alright, now when you are here, we can enter that big tower. Since you have done this before, you go first.'''

As he said this, he nodded at Ulriz.

- '''Alright, let’s get going then.''' The Nord said, and they started the short march to the tower.

Oddly enough, they didn’t meet anyone on their way up. But when they arrived in the sigil keep, they were faced by a group of five dremora. At first, the dremora just stood there, surprised by the sudden entering of four mortals. Ulriz, Farwil, Matval and the Nord had frozen too. The two groups just stood there, staring at each other. But then, they remembered where they were and they drew their weapons.

After a few minutes, the battle was over, and there were no casualties on the mortal side. Then, as they continued up the stairs, there appeared a dremora mage. He said something in his native tongue and threw a fireball at Farwil. The Nord reacted quickly and jumped in front of Farvil and took the fireball in his chest. Matval threw a lightning bolt at the dremora and it fell to the ground.

Farwil quickly got to his friends side. And he said:

- '''You can still make it.'''

He drew the Nord up on his feet and helped him to keep up. The group continued up the stairs.

- '''''Hold out Bremman! You are almost there! You will make it!'''''

They got up to the top and Farwil lost his grip of Bremman. The damaged Nord slowly stepped towards the sigil stone. With shaking hands, he picked it up. And they where surrounded by a strong white light.

A few seconds later, Ulriz and the others were standing at the flaming ruins of the oblivion gate. He saw Bremman fall down to the ground with the sigil stone still in his hands. Around them, voices raised, calling for healers. Matval started to walk towards the city gate.

- '''Are you just going to leave?!'''

Ulriz asked. He was actually shocked by the way Matval seemed to ignore other peoples suffering.

- '''There is nothing we can do to help him. Now, follow me up to the castle so that we can finish this, shall we?'''

Matval replied and without any further talking the two of them left the scene behind, heading for the castle.

A few minutes later they arrived in the main hall of the castle where count Andel still sat in his throne, waiting for news about the oblivion gate.

- '''Ah, you are back. Now, what happened? Did you save my son? Where is he?''' Andel said as they got closer.

- '''Your son is fine. He is over at the oblivion gate with that nord. The nord was hit by lightning in battle.''' Matval answered with a tone showing that he actually didn't care at all.

- '''Good, good, and the gate is closed… very well. I shall send reinforcements to Bruma. Matval, you take command.''' Andel said.

Andel bowed, mumbled something and took off. Then Andel turned to Ulriz.

- '''Now Imperial, I beg you farewell, if there is anything you need in the future, just ask. But for now… I really could use some rest.'''

And he arose, turned around and left the throne room, heading for his quarters.
As Ulriz were leaving, Farwil entered the castle and stopped Ulriz.

- '''Hello again Ulriz, I just wanted to thank you for the help there in Oblivion. So to show you my gratitude, I make you an honorary member of the Knights of the thorn.'''

He gave Ulriz a Thorn medallion, and without any other words, he continued into the castle towards his quarters, leaving Ulriz alone in the Throne room.

----

=== Chapter 2: ''Leyawiin''===

Ulriz arrived at the Leyawiin gates one day later after being hunted half the way by a minotaur... ... Anyway, he could see yet another oblivion gate from the road. He sneaked into the city and walked in the direction of the castle.
As he walked by a doorway, he felt something pulling on his belt. He looked down and saw a sneaky Khajiit trying to snatch his moneybag. Ulriz jumped away from the sneaky beast and drew his sword, shouting:

- '''What in Oblivion are you doing!?'''

The Khajiit took a step backwards with wide-opened, yet extremely tired eyes mumbling.

- '''I am so sorry sir. I dropped my invisible deer egg and when I tried to pick it up I got stuck in your belt.'''

Ulriz could see this fellow wasn’t the smartest person in Leyawiin. In fact, that excuse was so weird, he could not imagine him being other than stupid.
Then he got a fun idea. He raised his hands and said out loud:

- '''''Controllingius youius stupidous!'''''

- '''What was that?!''' The Khajiit asked, and now his tiredness was gone and he looked very frightened.

- '''Oh, I just threw a domination spell over you, so now you must follow all my commands until the effect wears off.''' Ulriz said, not thinking this would work.

- '''No!... When will it wear off!?''' The Khajiit asked now as if he were really terrified.

- '''I’ll tell you when it does. Now follow me to the castle.''' Ulriz replied, amazed that he just had fooled this person so greatly.

As they walked to the castle, the tiredness returned to the Khajiit's eyes. Then without warning the Khajiit started telling Ulriz his life story, ending it by telling him his name was Shulbasha. Inside the castle, Ulriz told Shulbasha to sit on one of the chairs until he told him otherwise.

Ulriz got the same answer from Marius Caro, the count of Leyawiin, as he had been given in Cheydinhal. So now he would have to close yet another Oblivion Gate.

User talk:Goblin lair/Sandbox2/Bawn

2010-02-03T23:18:37Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Ghorack's Diary */

== Ghorack's Diary ==

I just read his first entry... Excellent! Your English has improved, too. :) [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:36, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
: Thanks! What do you think of the story? [[User talk:Goblin lair|Goblin lair]] 16:55, 8 December 2009

Hi I wonder, is there anyone who thinks they would be able to create a goblin tribe symbol for this fanfic for the green skin tribe and the rat-tail tribe? Something like the existing ones for the oblivion goblin tribes. That would really make the tribes feel more... "real". :) -[[User talk:Goblin lair|Goblin lair]] 21:58, 8 December 2009

:Well, I know I can't. Are you going to get chapter 3 up soon? [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:36, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Nice twist on chapter 3! Keep it up. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:18, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Morrowind:Bittercup

2010-01-22T01:44:43Z

Ninja Hinder: Undo revision 528485 by 125.238.124.233 (Talk) Deleting for no reason?

<noinclude>{{Trail|Items|Artifacts}} [[Category:Morrowind-Miscellaneous-Clutter]]
</noinclude>{{Artifact Summary
|PageName=Bittercup
|Image=MW_Bittercup.jpg
|Weight=10
|Value=100,000
|Type=Other
|ObjectID=artifact_bittercup_01
|Icon=MW_Icon_M_Bittercup.png
}}
The '''Bittercup''' is an artifact attributed to the Daedric prince [[Lore:Clavicus Vile|Clavicus Vile]], whose sphere is the granting of power and wishes through ritual invocations and pacts.

When you activate it, you will be asked if you would like to drink its "nectar" or pick it up. If you choose to drink, the cup will disappear, and its absence interferes with some parts of the final [[Morrowind:Thieves Guild#Thieves Guild Quests|Thieves Guild Quests]]; see [[Morrowind:The Bitter Cup|The Bitter Cup]] quest for more information. You need not decide right away, as the question will pop up again when you remove the cup from your inventory and activate it again.

Drinking from the Bittercup will increase your highest [[Morrowind:Attributes|attribute]] by 20 points and decrease your lowest attribute by 20 points, permanently. If your highest attribute is above 80, it will actually be raised higher than 100. This is the only way to permanently increase an attribute above 100.

Something to note is that the minimum and maximum attributes are checked linearly, in the same order that they appear on the stats menu. Therefore, if you have several minimum/maximum attributes the game will always choose the first one(s). It is possible to control which attributes are affected with [[Morrowind:Fortify Attribute|Attribute fortifying]]/[[Morrowind:Drain Attribute|draining]] effects. Bittercup affects the base attribute value, so fortifying an attribute above 100 temporarily will not negate its effect. Even with these, it's still not possible to raise an attribute above 100, nor avoid having an attribute lowered by 20 points by draining it to zero temporarily. For instance, [[Morrowind:Personality|Personality]] could be drained from 30 to 0, and [[Morrowind:Luck|Luck]] could be Fortified from 50 to 150 for a few seconds, and this would ensure that these attributes (the two lowest on the list) would be permanently lowered to 10 and raised to 70, respectively.

====Notes====
* The name of the artifact is spelled as one word, Bittercup, but is referred to as the Bitter Cup everywhere else, including the dialogue that asks if you want to drink from it.

* Another copy of the Bittercup can be found in the [[Morrowind:ToddTest|ToddTest]] test cell.

*By using this cup, along with The Lady, characters that start out with 55 endurance can get 100 endurance at level 1. This can be used to get the maximum health per level up (+10) right from level 1.

Oblivion:Vampire Cure

2010-01-16T20:39:33Z

Ninja Hinder: Undo revision 525882 by 86.46.76.67 (Talk) Nonsese

{{Trail|Quests|Imperial City}}
{{Quest Header
|Giver=[[Oblivion:Raminus Polus|Raminus Polus]]
|Start=the [[Oblivion:Arcane University|Arcane University]]
|Icon=OB-qico-General1.png
|Reward=''Cure Vampirism'' Potion, gold (level-dependent), immunity to Vampirism
|Prev=must be a [[Oblivion:Vampirism|Vampire]]
|Next=none
|Loc=[[Oblivion:Arcane University|Arcane University]], [[Oblivion:Skingrad|Skingrad]], [[Oblivion:Drakelowe|Drakelowe]], [[Oblivion:Redwater Slough|Redwater Slough]]
|AddAbove=
|AddBelow=
|Image=Vheadshot.jpg
|ImgDesc=Headshot of a vampire.
|ID=MS40
|description=A long quest to gain the cure for [[Oblivion:Vampirism|vampirism]].
}}

==Quick Walkthrough==
# Work your way through various referrals: from [[Oblivion:Raminus Polus|Raminus Polus]], to Count [[Oblivion:Janus Hassildor|Janus Hassildor]] of [[Oblivion:Skingrad|Skingrad]] to [[Oblivion:Melisande|Melisande]] in [[Oblivion:Drakelowe|Drakelowe]].
# Retrieve some [[Oblivion:Soul Gem|Grand Soul Gems]] to get Melisande to help you.
# Collect a long list of ingredients for the potion.
# Retrieve the potion, and take it back to Janus Hassildor for a reward.

==Detailed Walkthrough==
===Getting Started===
Before you can start this quest, you must have already become at least a first-stage [[Oblivion:Vampirism|Vampire]] (i.e., normal ''[[Oblivion:Cure Disease|Cure Disease]]'' effects will not work to cure you; ''Vampirism'' shows up in your ''Active Effects'' page). At that point, Cure Vampirism will start to show up as a conversation topic, in particular when talking with healers. Asking about 'Cure Vampirism' will lead to a referral to [[Oblivion:Raminus Polus|Raminus Polus]] in the [[Oblivion:Arcane_University|Arcane University]] in the [[Oblivion:Imperial_City|Imperial City]]. But in fact, Raminus doesn't really know much, other than that Count [[Oblivion:Janus Hassildor|Janus Hassildor]] of [[Oblivion:Skingrad|Skingrad]] is a vampire, and may have been doing some research on a cure. So, off to Castle Skingrad you go, where you have to tell [[Oblivion:Hal-Liurz|Hal-Liurz]] why you want to talk to the Count before she will go and find him for you. Talking to Janus Hassildor yields an interesting backstory on him and his wife and reveals that he will reward you for obtaining a ''Cure Vampirism'' potion (so he can heal his comatose wife), but still no potion. Instead he sends you off to yet another person: an alleged witch of Glenmoril who lives somewhere near the Corbolo River (your map places a marker at [[Oblivion:Drakelowe|Drakelowe]].)

===Melisande's Shopping Lists===
Travel to Drakelowe and you will find one inhabitant, [[Oblivion:Melisande|Melisande]], who will let on that she might be able to help you. But before even agreeing to help you, she requires five empty [[Oblivion:Grand Soul Gem|Grand Soul Gems]]. At this point in the quest, three empty Grand Soul Gems are added to nearby dungeons. In each case, the soul gem is in a previously non-existent area of the dungeon; the appearance of the area is triggered by this quest. These three soul gems are at:
* [[Oblivion:Crayfish Cave|Crayfish Cave]], [[Oblivion:Crayfish Cave#Crayfish Steep|Zone 4 (Crayfish Steep)]], behind rock walls '''I''', '''J''', '''K'''.
* [[Oblivion:Nornal|Nornal]], [[Oblivion:Nornal#Nornal Ageasel|Zone 2 (Nornal Ageasel)]], behind hidden door '''K'''.
* [[Oblivion:Squandered Mine|Squandered Mine]], [[Oblivion:Squandered Mine|Zone 3 (Squandered Mine Wind Holes)]], behind rock wall '''G'''.

Any other soul gems in the game may also be used for this quest, including stolen ones. Most soul gems are found randomly. If you are at least level 11, there is small chance (<5%) of finding empty grand soul gems in most dungeon chests. If you are at least level 12, any of the [[Oblivion:Merchants|Merchants]] who sell magical equipment '''''may''''' stock them. Places where you can always find empty grand soul gems include:
* [[Oblivion:Calindil|Calindil]] at the Mystic Emporium in the [[Oblivion:Market District|Market District]] has one, which can be bought or pickpocketed.
* With the exception of Skingrad, the merchant in each city's Mages Guild has one which can either be bought or pickpocketed.
* You can steal one from Melisande's basement (accessible through the fireplace next to her bed).
* There is one in the Arch-Mage's Lobby of the Arcane University. It is in a locked display case along with two more Grand Soul Gems that are not empty.
* There is one in a locked display case in the Mage Quarters of the Arcane University at the bottom of the staircase on the left as you enter.
* The [[Oblivion:Chorrol Mages Guild|Chorrol Mages Guild]] has an empty one in a locked display case in a room just left of the front door, and another one in a display case beside the stairs. If you are a Guild member, picking the locks and taking the gems will not count as a crime.

Once you provide Melisande with the soul gems, she will task you with finding a long list of ingredients necessary to make the potion. Several are regular alchemy ingredients: two [[Oblivion:Bloodgrass|Bloodgrass]] shoots, six cloves of [[Oblivion:Garlic|Garlic]], and five [[Oblivion:Nightshade|Nightshade]] leaves. Full details on where to find these ingredients are provided on the individual ingredient pages. Two are trickier: the blood of an [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]] and the ashes of a powerful vampire.
*'''Two Bloodgrass:''' This is the tall red grass you see everywhere in Oblivion and at some [[Oblivion:Oblivion Gate|Oblivion Gate]]s, and it can be bought in some alchemy shops as well, so it is easy to find. A bug (see [[#Bugs|Bugs]]) may prevent the Bloodgrass from being presented to Melisande.
*'''Six cloves of Garlic:''' Many homes have these lying around on the dinner table or stacked somewhere else. Almost every home in Skingrad has some bunches of garlic (often 3 or 4), most often hanging from a beam in the basement.
*'''Five Nightshade leaves:''' Nightshade is prolific throughout the West Weald. You can also find some (or maybe all) at "The Main Ingredient" in the Imperial City Market District, the only alchemy shop guaranteed to have Nightshade in stock. The Arcane University has several growing there as well.
*'''Blood of an Argonian:''' Melisande gives you a special ''Enchanted Dagger'' to use and collect the blood. You do not need to actually kill the Argonian, just stabbing your victim once with the dagger is sufficient. You can find Argonians in just about any city, but of course stabbing a townsperson is likely to get you in trouble (you can yield when they try to attack you, but you will still have an assault charge and bounty). A complete list of all named Argonians in the game is available at [[:Category:Oblivion-Argonian|Oblivion-Argonian]]. Luckily, there are some easier alternatives:
** One Argonian can be found at [[Oblivion:Peryite|Peryite's shrine]]; if you have not completed Peryite's quest, he is frozen and there are no consequences to stabbing him.
** Another possible location is [[Oblivion:Veyond Cave|Veyond Cave]], which is inhabited by Argonian tribesmen who will attack you on sight, making it perfectly legal to stab them back (and then probably follow through with killing them so they don't keep chasing you).
** Argonians serve as archers in Marauder bands, so any venture into a Marauder-filled ruin or cavern may bring you into contact with one.
** If you spared Scar-Tail in the [[Oblivion:The Renegade Shadowscale|The Renegade Shadowscale]] quest, he will still be standing around at [[Oblivion:Bogwater|Bogwater]]. You can simply stab him once, and then yield.
** There are two instances in the [[Oblivion:Arena (faction)|Arena]] in which you face Argonians; you must fight an Argonian archer early on, and later, three Argonian prisoners.
** There is an Argonian to be killed in the quest given by [[Oblivion:Boethia|Boethia]]. (Although he will not appear if your character is also an Argonian)
** You can cast a [[Oblivion:Frenzy|Frenzy]] spell on any Argonian, who will proceed to attack you allowing you to collect blood without penalty.
** You can cast a [[Oblivion:Command Humanoid|Command Humanoid]] spell on any Argonian, which will allow you to stab the Argonian once without penalty.
** If you have purchased the [[Oblivion:Thieves Den|Thieves Den]] [[Oblivion:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]] you can easily stab [[Oblivion:Yinz'r|Yinz'r]] without getting penalized.
** [[Oblivion:Shaleez|Shaleez]] is a good candidate if you are a member of the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]]. You're asked to kill her during the [[Oblivion:Final_Justice|Final Justice]] quest.
*'''Ashes of a powerful vampire:''' This 'powerful' vampire's name is [[Oblivion:Hindaril|Hindaril]]. Ask the witch about it and she will mark his location in [[Oblivion:Redwater Slough|Redwater Slough]] on your map. Killing Hindaril will provide you with ''[[Oblivion:Ashes of Hindaril|Ashes of Hindaril]]'' instead of regular ''[[Oblivion:Vampire Dust|Vampire Dust]]''. His home is a nesting ground for vampires but they die easily (especially with [[Oblivion:Fire Damage|Fire Damage]] spells). If you still have trouble you could wait until you're in the fourth and final stage of being vampire and kill them with ease. (You can kill Hindaril before starting the Vampire Cure quest; if so, you will already have the Ashes of Hindaril in your inventory).

If you have installed the [[Oblivion:Wizard's Tower|Wizard's Tower]] plugin, bloodgrass and nightshade can be found in the tower's alchemy garden.

Once you deliver all these ingredients to Melisande, she'll tell you to return in 24 hours. You'll have to go somewhere else and come back, because if you linger inside the house at Drakelowe, Melisande considers it [[Oblivion:Crime#Trespassing|trespassing]] and becomes hostile. See [[Oblivion:Vampire_Cure#Notes|Notes]], below, for tips on waiting if you're a vampire.

===At last: Potions!===
When you return, Melisande will have two potions ready. If Melisande's shack is empty when you return, she will be in her basement; just wait a short while and she will reappear near the fireplace, in front of the hidden trapdoor to the basement. If she doesn't appear, you might have to wait for a whole day. The ''Cure for Vampirism'' Potion, that appears under Potions in your inventory, is for you. You can either drink it immediately or save it for a rainy day. The other one: ''Vampirism Cure Potion'', will appear in the miscellaneous section of your inventory and needs to be taken to Skingrad for Count Janus Hassildor's wife.

At Castle Skingrad you again need to work through the Count's steward, Hal-Liurz. Mention the cure to her and she will lead you outside the Hall, to the entrance of the ''Chamber of the Lost'': the Countess' secret chambers. Count Janus Hassildor is waiting there, as is your favorite witch, Melisande. Tell the count that you acquired the cure and give it to him. He will allow you to stay and watch provided that you keep quiet. Melisande wakes up the countess and the count explains that she can end her suffering. The countess drinks the potion, is healed from vampirism and drops dead on the bed. The count tells you to let him grieve for 24 hours, then return for your reward. During this time you can heartlessly loot the Countess' corpse.

Again, you need to talk to Hal-Liurz to get to the Count. The dialogue "Reward" will cause him to give you a level-dependent amount of gold (see below).

===Reward===
{| class="wikitable" {{AL|C}}
! Level !! Reward
|-
| 1-4 ||{{AL|R}}| 250 Gold
|-
| 5-9 ||{{AL|R}}| 500 Gold
|-
| 10-14 ||{{AL|R}}| 1,000 Gold
|-
| 15-19 ||{{AL|R}}| 2,500 Gold
|-
| 20-24 ||{{AL|R}}| 5,000 Gold
|-
| 25-29 ||{{AL|R}}| 7,500 Gold
|-
| 30+ ||{{AL|R}}| 10,000 Gold
|}

==Notes==
*If you are in the later stages of vampirism, be careful during the witch part of the quest. After she tells you to wait 24 hours for her to finish the potion you cannot wait under the protection of her roof because she will consider it trespassing and attack you. If you look on your map you will also realize that there are no places close by to run to for protection from the sun. Because of this, you will get stuck in a constant cycle of her trying to kill you and you being killed by the sunlight because there are no other shady places nearby to wait. You have a couple of alternatives:
**Make sure you start this quest in the early evening so you have enough time to complete everything in the safety of the dark.
**If you arrive during the night, feed on her while she is sleeping. This will allow you to take no damage if you need to wait outside during the day.
**The closest place to wait indoors is [[Oblivion:Squandered Mine|Squandered Mine]], northeast of Drakelowe up the cliff.
**If you have a high enough sneak ability, you can alternately hide in the house. Melisande will simply believe you to have left and leave the room. Since it is light outside you won't be able to leave, and as you are trespassing you can't sleep or wait; but it is an alternate way to pass the time safely.
**If you have enough potions or healing, you can very quickly run down to the river and swim underwater all the way to swampy cave or even closer, the back entrance to swampy cave. Being underwater significantly reduces the sun damage you take. You need to absorb about 600-1000 damage to make the trip at 100% vampirism (depending on your run speed).
* Once cured, you cannot become a vampire again (except using the console). ''Porphyric Hemophilia'' becomes just another disease.
* A much easier vampire cure, the ''Font of Renewal'', is made available if you buy the [[Oblivion:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]] [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]].
* The door to Melisande's shack in Drakelowe always has a red cursor; entering her shack counts as trespassing. Therefore, do not wait too long to begin the dialogue with her or she will change to combat mode and attack you. Trespassing does not affect the quest dialogues with her (until she attacks).
* Given that the only way to obtain this quest is to first become a vampire, this option is currently inaccessible (without using the console), but if you were to complete this quest without ever having been a vampire, Janus Hassildor would offer you a choice for the final reward:
::''"I can offer you money, of course, but given my condition, I am in a position to offer you something relatively unique. If you wish, you can become a vampire. It will be slightly painful, but far easier on you than... other methods. Which would you prefer?"''
:If you then chose the topic "Make me a vampire", he would continue:
::''"This is not a gift to be taken lightly. It may cause you harm in the long run, but at least you already know a way to rid yourself of it. Once you have the disease for several days, rest and let the effects take hold. And please, be careful. Good luck."''
:Finally, he would cast the "Vampire Reward Spell", which would infect you with Porphyric Hemophilia.
*It is possible to drink your vampire cure before completing the vampire cure quest, then later as a non-vampire become a vampire again by completing the quest and accepting the alternate reward from Janus. You can then return to the witch and get a second cure, after which there is no way to become a vampire again except the console.
*It is possible to enter the Chamber of the Lost before doing this quest by using high acrobatics or the [[Oblivion:Glitches#Floating_Paint_Brushes|floating paint brush]] glitch to jump over the castle wall and access the chamber door. Countess Hassildor will not respond if you try to wake her and her body cannot be looted if she is killed. Since there is no way of getting back out of the chamber without using the console, save before trying.

==Bugs==
This may be one of the buggiest quests in the game, and thus it can be a real disappointment to those who really wanted to cure themselves of Vampirism.

* If you manage to enter the basement during the 24 hours where Melisande is making the potion, the trapdoor will lock and you will be trapped.
* You may not be able to start this quest if you were in the [[Oblivion:Mages Guild|Mages Guild]] but have been [[Oblivion:Mages Guild#Suspension|suspended]] from the guild. If so, you will need to complete the required task and be reinstated in the guild before starting Vampire Cure. Specifically the mage in the academy will not move the quest forward after speaking to him, but you can proceed to speak with Janus and the quest will continue normally.
* If you started the quest, but then cured yourself with the ''Font of Renewal'', then the quest characters will not speak to you about it until you become a vampire again.
* If the Count only greets you with "I've said all there is to be said. Trouble me no more" and refuses to say anything else, the problem is that you have started but not completed the quest [[Oblivion:Ulterior Motives|Ulterior Motives]]. You will need to finish Ulterior Motives (by talking to Raminus Polus) before Janus Hassildor will talk to you about any topics.
* There have been problems with the witch not accepting Bloodgrass. The "Bloodgrass" topic will effectively disappear when you complete the [[Oblivion:Main_Quest|main quest]]. You can solve it by reloading a previous save, or typing <code>set MS40.cureready to 1</code> in the console. This will cause a new topic to appear and allows you to complete the quest properly. {{patched 1.1.511|noindent=yes}}
** {{ps22}} On the PS3, this bug has returned, although only if [[Shivering:Shivering Isles|Shivering Isles]] has been installed (either because you are playing the [[Oblivion:GOTY|GOTY]] edition of the game, or because Shivering Isles has been added as an expansion). The bug is present even though the latest official patch is built-in to the PS3 version of the game. A workaround is available but requires a non-GoTY Oblivion disc; see [[#PS3 GotY Vampirism Cure Notes|PS3 GotY Vampirism Cure Notes]] below.
* [[Image:Flag Germany.jpg|22px]] There is a translation problem in the German version regarding the ingredients. In the dialogue with the witch, Nightshade leaves is directly translated into "Nachtschatten Blätter" whereas throughout the rest of the game it is correctly translated into "Tollkirsche". So don't try to look for an ingredient called "Nachtschatten Blätter", but instead for "Tollkirsche".
* [[Image:Flag France.png|22px]] There is a similar translation problem in the French version where you are told to find some "Clous de girofle" (cloves - ingredients that do not exist in the game) while you must bring "Ail" (garlic) instead.
* If you give Melisande the last ingredient and the order to brew the potion at 11 p.m., she will never return from the basement so you can’t get the potion from her. To solve this problem either load a previous savegame and talk to her at a different time, or type the following commands into the console (not at 11 p.m., or the bug will occur again!) and wait 24 hours: <code>set MS40.currentday to GameDay</code> <code>set MS40.currenthour to GameHour</code> <code>set MS40.cureready to 3</code>
** This bug was silently patched in the master file Oblivion.esm installed by Shivering Isles, so should no longer occur if Shivering Isles is installed (either stand-alone or as part of the GoTY edition)
** {{UOP}}
* There is a glitch where Hal-Liurz, the Count's Steward, becomes stuck in the Chamber of the Lost. Every time you speak to her she will say "Please, wait here. I shall let the count know you are waiting for him" but will never go anywhere.
** One possible way to finish the quest is to find the count, hit him, and have him chase you back to where Hal-Liurz is standing (without getting stopped by any guards along the way). Hal-Liurz should then go back to the Great Hall, although may require similar forceful persuasion. You will need to pay the fine for assaulting the count and his steward, but then you can go to the Great Hall, wait for 24 hours, and the Count should show up to give you your reward.
** Other way to complete this quest is break in the Castle Hall and speak to the count by yourself. The Count is upstairs from the hall with a throne.
** {{UOP}}
* It is possible that at the end of this quest you can wait more than 24 hours but the Count will still only say "Please, go" when you talk to him. To fix the problem, you need to make Hal-Liurz bring the Count to you (even if you're already standing next to the Count, Hal-Liurz has to act as intermediary for the quest to be updated). Sometimes just talking to Hal-Liurz is sufficient. Otherwise, you can use a [[Oblivion:Command Humanoid|Command Humanoid]] spell to force her to follow you to wherever the Count is standing, at which point talking to Hal-Liurz should work to complete the quest.
* After the quest reward is received, it is possible to keep pressing the reward topic to receive the reward over and over again. It is possible to return to the count later and do this anytime, even after the quest is completed. There does not seem to be any limit to the amount of gold you can amass.
{{patched 1.1.511}}
* After drinking the potion to cure yourself, Vampirism may not be removed. Use any [[Oblivion:Cure Disease|Cure Disease]] effect to finish removing it.

=== PS3 GotY Vampirism Cure Notes ===
{{ps22}} PS3 players using the English-language [[Oblivion:GOTY|GotY]] edition of the game currently have no way of curing their vampirism due to the [[#Bugs|above bug]] as the Vile Lair and other official plug-ins are not yet available on [http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/Network PSN]. The Bloodgrass topic will be absent or greyed-out and Melisande will not accept the Bloodgrass even if the main quest is ''not'' completed, unlike what occurs on unpatched PC and XBox360 non-GotY Oblivion. This problem also affects PS3 players who have installed [[Shivering:Shivering Isles|Shivering Isles]] as an expansion; if you are considering adding the expansion, it would be wise to complete the Vampire Cure quest before installing Shivering Isles. There are only two known workarounds:

* '''Play using a non-GotY disc:''' Obtain (e.g., through rental), a non-GotY Oblivion disc and use that to play through the completion of the quest. (If you have downloaded SI as an expansion from the Playstation Network, you can delete the Oblivion game data to "reset" your game to the pre-SI version; after completing these steps you can re-download the expansion from PSN at no cost). The Bloodgrass topic can then be chosen and the player's vampirism can be cured. Steps:
*# Because the player's current save must be saved under a version of Oblivion without [[Shivering:Shivering Isles|the Shivering Isles]] present, items specific to Shivering Isles may be lost. To prevent the loss of items if the Isles have already been entered, first place all [[Shivering:Items|Shivering Isles items]] into a [[Oblivion:Containers#Safe_Containers|safe container]] in Cyrodiil, not in the Isles. However, some key items such as the Key to Mania and the Key to Dimentia cannot be removed from your inventory and you will lose them.
*# Travel to [[Oblivion:Drakelowe|Drakelowe]] with the required two shoots of Bloodgrass, enter and save. It would be advisable to note which save slot it is, as it may be required to revert to it should something go wrong.
*# Completely exit Oblivion, remove the GotY disc from the PS3, and insert the non-GotY disc.
*# Launch Oblivion and load your current save in Drakelowe.
*# Speak to Melisande and choose the Bloodgrass topic. She should now accept it.
*# Save the game ''into a new save slot'' so that if something has gone wrong your previous save is still accessible.
*# Completely exit Oblivion, remove the non-GotY disc from the PS3, and re-insert the GotY disc.
*# Launch Oblivion, load your new save and continue. Retrieving any Shivering Isles items from their safe container at this point to ensure that they are still there would be advisable.
**If your game freezes at step #4 (when you try to load the GotY save using the non-GotY disc), it may help to put all items (not just SI items) from your inventory into a container. If your game still freezes on the load screen, then you will essentially be unable to cure your vampirism with this character.
**Known side effects on Shivering Isles:
*** There will be little or no impact if this is performed before the player has entered the Isles at all so it is preferable to get rid of vampirism as soon as possible if the Isles have not been entered yet.
*** If Shivering Isles quests are active, they may disappear or bugs may occur. Keep your pre-workaround savegame just in case.
*** Although Shivering Isles items may be kept with the workaround of storing them in Cyrodiil, spells, powers and abilities will almost certainly disappear. You will have to purchase any missing spells again. If the [[Shivering:Main_Quest|Main Quest]] has been completed, speak with [[Shivering:Haskill|Haskill]] and the two Greater Powers obtained at quest end should be restored.
*** Shivering Isles items kept in player inventory may not disappear if they have been [[Oblivion:Enchanting|enchanted by the player]].
*** Golden Saint and Dark Seducer guards may lose all of their conversation topics. Their arrest behaviour will still occur normally. If the Main Quest has been completed, the Escorts should still have all of their dialog topics.
*** If the Main Quest has been completed, the ownership of the Duke's/Duchess' Quarters may revert and the player may be trespassing in them. Any items stored in them that were previously player-owned will similarly revert and will be considered stolen.

* '''European Players''': If you are playing on a european console using a european copy of the GotY edition, then the glitch can be cured without a copy of the non-GotY disc. The steps are:
*# Upon reaching Melisande's house with the Bloodgrass, save and exit the game.
*# Change the PS3 system settings to make the default language German (other languages may work).
*# Reload the game. The game will now be in German, but the following steps are possible even if you do not understand German.
*# Talk to Melisande and select the "Blutgras" topic ("Blutgras" is German for "Bloodgrass").
*# After she has accepted the Bloodgrass, save and exit.
*# Set the PS3 default language back to English in the system settings.
*# Reload Oblivion and you can now finish the quest.
** Known side effects on the [[Shivering:Shivering Isles|Shivering Isles]] expansion:
*** As with the disk-swapping method there will be little or no impact if this is performed before the player has ever entered the Shivering Isles, so it is preferable to cure vampirism before starting the expansion.
*** You will lose all Powers, spells and journal entries from the expansion. However, you can still keep the items; they don't even need to be placed into safe storage or removed from your inventory. Note that until you put the game back into its original language they will be listed as '<unknown item>' unless they have been enchanted.
*** Unlike the disk-swapping method, in this case the expansion seems to reset altogether. If you return to [[Oblivion:A Strange Door|A Strange Door]], the original events are replayed. The initial quests will also need to be repeated, although some bugs appear,
**** '''[[Shivering:A Door in Niben Bay|A Door in Niben Bay]]''' — When you go through the Strange Door you are not taken to the butterfly room. Instead, you are overlooking the Fringe. Once Haskill leaves the walls reappear briefly before flying away.
**** '''[[Shivering:Final Resting|Final Resting]]''' - placing the Ring of Happiness in any container then taking it out will finish the quest. Hirrus Clutumnus will not ask you to kill him.
**** '''[[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]]''' — [[Shivering:Jayred Ice-Veins|Jayred Ice-Veins]] will not help you defeat the Gatekeeper a second time: he has kept the Bone Arrows from the first time, and therefore is not interested in getting more. However, the quest can still be completed without Jayred's help - either by killing the gatekeeper by yourself, or you can just run through a gate as you may already have the keys. The latter method may have consequences during Rebuilding the Gatekeeper.
**** '''[[Shivering:A Better Mousetrap|A Better Mousetrap]]''' — This is where things get really broken. If you have previously played through this quest then the Focus Crystals will already be placed on each Judgment Nexus; they cannot be removed and the quest will not update. This means that the gate which blocks the way to the Resonator of Judgement will never open leaving you unable to progress any further with this quest.
****Any other unfinished quests involving quest items cannot be finished. For example in 'A Better Mousetrap' (if you haven't entered the dungeon yet), you will already have the Attenuator of Judgement when you re-enter the isles, but Sheogorath will give you another. However the game is programmed to remove 'the' Attenuator, not 'an' Attenuator. As you will have two you cannot activate the Resonator. To prevent this, finish all SI quests involving quest items before switching language.

==Journal Entries==
{| class="wikitable"
!colspan=3| Vampire Cure (MS40)
|-
! Stage
! Finishes Quest
! Journal Entry
|-
|5||||I should travel to the Arcane University in the Imperial City and speak with Raminus Polus about the possibility of a cure for Vampirism.
|-
|10||||I need to speak with Count Hassildor of Skingrad. I should find his Steward at Castle Skingrad.
|-
|20||||Count Hassildor of Skingrad has asked me to find the cure for vampirism. I should look for a woman in the wilderness along the Corbolo River, east of the Imperial City and south of Cheydinhal.
|-
|30||||I have found Melisande, who has offered to help me with a cure for vampirism. Once I have brought her five empty Grand Soul Gems, she will give me further instructions.
|-
|40||||I have delivered the Soul Gems to Melisande. Now I must collect a series of ingredients for her, so that she can brew the potion to cure vampirism. She needs six cloves of garlic, five nightshade leaves, and two shoots of bloodgrass.
|-
|41||||Melisande has given me a special dagger, with which I am to collect the blood of an Argonian. I should find an Argonian, stab him with the dagger, and return it to Melisande.
|-
|42||||Melisande requires the ashes of a powerful vampire to complete her cure. I should search the area near the North Panther River for Hindaril, a vampire who was imprisoned in an underground cavern many years ago.
|-
|50||||I have collected the ashes of Hindaril for Melisande. I should bring them to her at once.
|-
|60||||Melisande's dagger is covered in Argonian blood. I should deliver it to her so that she can brew the potion.
|-
|70||||Melisande has created a potion to cure vampirism. I have been given two doses; one for myself and one that I need to take to Castle Skingrad. I should travel there and speak with Hal-Liurz.
|-
|80||||The Countess of Skingrad is dead. I need to speak with Hai-Liurz at Castle Skingrad after the Count has had time to grieve for his wife.
|-
|100||align="center"|{{Yes}}||Count Hassildor thanked me for finding a cure for his wife.
|}
{{OB Journal Entries Notes}}

UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations

2010-01-16T19:04:54Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Current Nominations */ Nominating myself

==Before you Nominate==
If you are nominating yourself, be sure that you have read the [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|Patrollers]] page, and understand what is expected out of a patroller. If you are nominating someone else, make sure you contact them beforehand and make sure they read the Patrollers page.

It is a good idea to look over the [[UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations/Completed|Completed Nominations]] to see what strengths and weaknesses were taken into consideration when others were supported or opposed in previous nominations.

==Nominations==
After nomination, there is a one week interval to allow the community to ask questions and vote on the new patroller. After this week, an Administrator will decide on the consensus and add the Patroller role to a successful nominee (if the consensus is to make the nominee a patroller), or drop the nomination (if the consensus is to not make the nominee a patroller).

==Current Nominations==
If you would like to nominate someone (including yourself) add his/her name below, with a reason for the nomination.

=== Ninja Hinder ===
I've been wanting to be a patroller for the past year now. To prepare myself I've been making minor edits on many pages and looking at Recent Changes several times a day to see if anything needs to be fixed. I am certain that I've fulfilled all of the unofficial criteria, and I'd really love to finally become a patroller. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 19:04, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

==Completed Nominations==
Completed nominations can be viewed on [[UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations/Completed|this page]].

Oblivion:Roleplaying/Wilderness Dweller

2010-01-16T18:57:48Z

Ninja Hinder: I made a myriad of minor edits

{{Roleplaying Header}}
{{TOCright}}

Wilderness Dwellers explore the wilderness, living off the land and spending relatively little time in cities. They live independently and avoid relying on other people.

* Many races and birthsigns are possible.
* Possible skills: [[Oblivion:Acrobatics|Acrobatics]], [[Oblivion:Alchemy|Alchemy]], [[Oblivion:Athletics|Athletics]], [[Oblivion:Blade|Blade]]/[[Oblivion:Blunt|Blunt]], [[Oblivion:Block|Block]], [[Oblivion:Light Armor|Light Armor]], [[Oblivion:Marksman|Marksman]]
* Equipment:
** You aren't going into battle, so you don't need the best quality armor or high quality weapons.
** Wear huntsman's garments if you can or leather/fur armor.
** Try not to use enchanted items unless they suit your character. Appropriate enchanted items include:
*** The enchanted fur armor worn by [[Oblivion:Burz gro-Khash|Burz gro-Khash]].
*** [[Oblivion:Boots of the Crusader|Boots of the Crusader]] (if you have installed the [[Oblivion:Knights of the Nine|Knights of the Nine]]).
*** [[Oblivion:Saviour's Hide|Saviour's Hide]] from [[Oblivion:Hircine|Hircine's quest]].
** Since you live simply, you will not have jewelry or expensive items.

==Possible Activities==
* Live off the land as much as possible. There are a number ways to do this and make it not only convincing but good fun;:
** Hunt animals for their meat.
** "Skin" them for their hides and make a living from trade. (A good way to do this is to sell only to Shady Sam outside the Imperial City as it does not involve going into the city itself and he sells items relevant to your character.)
** Collect ingredients to make your own potions and poisons.
* Avoid going into towns:
** Aim to use little gold as possible and try to live independently. (For an extreme challenge, play the game without ever entering a city.)
** If you need to sell or buy items, visit smaller settlements or roadside inns.
** Plan trips into town carefully so that everything is done in one go.
** Make sure you are well-stocked and prepared. Carry lots of repair hammers and try to use just on set of armour for a more authentic feel.
* You should only have a limited knowledge of magic and spells, unless you are playing a hermit or exiled wizard type of character.
** You may want to actively avoid using magic as a matter of principle, but using basic restoration spells to heal yourself in emergencies would not take away from your character. Some basic mysticism would also be appropriate; being able to sense danger or animals near by would be a well developed skill of someone living in the wild. (Detect Life)
** Other restraints may limit your access to powerful spells: you will not be able to make spell purchases, and you will not be a [[Oblivion:Mages Guild|Mages Guild]] member capable of making custom spells.
** If you want to guarantee that your character never casts any spells, you could reduce your [[Oblivion:Magicka|Magicka]] to zero by damaging your [[Oblivion:Intelligence|Intelligence]]. For example; drink custom potions that have [[Oblivion:Damage Intelligence|Damage Intelligence]] side effects. Since Intelligence does not affect your Alchemical abilities, doing this will have no negative repercussions on your potions.
* Stick to basic [[Oblivion:Alchemy|Alchemy]]:
** Use only a mortar and pestle.
** Focus on potions that you need for survival: [[Oblivion:Restore Health|Restore Health]], [[Oblivion:Cure Disease|Cure Disease]], [[Oblivion:Cure Poison|Cure Poison]], etc.

* Avoid fast travel:
** Explore the countryside and learn to navigate from landmarks.
** See other recommendations at [[Oblivion:Roleplaying#Traveling|traveling]].

* Stay in appropriate locations:
** When in town, stay in the cheaper inns (e.g, [[Oblivion:The Oak and Crosier|The Oak and Crosier]] in [[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]], [[Oblivion:Olav's Tap and Tack|Olav's Tap and Tack]] in [[Oblivion:Bruma|Bruma]]).
** Spend your nights in campsites. If you don't find a campsite, rough it that night and sleep (wait) out in the open. Look for shelter such as a large boulder, tree, or the overhang of a cave. A list of campsites can be found [[Oblivion:Campsites|here]]
** Or live in a remote house ([[Oblivion:Isolated House|Isolated House]], [[Oblivion:White Stallion Lodge|White Stallion Lodge]]).

==Variations==
===Ashlander Chief===
You are the leader of an Ashlander tribe that has been exiled to Cyrodiil, either because the Imperial merchants complained about your raids or because of treason.

*Race: Dunmer
*Name: Anything Ashlander, or Assyrian
*Birthsign: Warrior
*Specialisation: Magic
*Major skills: Armorer, Heavy Armour, Blade, Marksman, Conjuration, Destruction, and another of your choice
*Attributes: Intelligence and Willpower

Decide where your tribe's new home should be. Lord Drad's Estate after the quest for Malacath has many buildings, workers, fields, and a mine.

The only Dunmers who will follow you are Modryn Oreyn and Harrow, who you may wish to leave alone as he can easily be killed by a wild animal, but Lord Drad's Estate has two Dunmer after the quest for Malacath is completed. However, as the Ashlanders need slaves you can have almost any follower in the game in your tribe (but do not have too many - they are slaves). If you have followers such as Mazoga the Orc who can be told to wait, you can put them in the houses and bring in suitable items such as food and simple decoration as long as you do not ruin the Ashlander style.

You could also use the glitch that makes torches you have thrown on the ground burn, and make a community fire. Use this to cook whatever your tribe eats - mostly meat with a few rare vegetables would be good.

Also, you can invent a religion for your tribe. They do not have to follow the Nine Divines. They could be Daedra worshipers, or any other religion you invent! You could conduct rituals with your conjuration skills, and make sacrifices.

Hunt for food with your bow, and keep all wolf and bear pelts. You could raid nearby ruins and even villages for horses, food, clothes, and loot, and occasionally raid Veyond Cave if you are a militant leader. If not, find the sheep outside Weynon Priory that follows people who have apples (if you are on the PC, spawn a few of them) and herd them around the steppes.

Wear robes or the attire of a huntsman (on the PC, you could also use Pit Armour, available via the console), depending on what you are doing. When fighting, make use of your bow to do as much damage as possible before summoning a creature and running in with war axes or claymores. Remember, you are not a trained fighter, and although you are a fanatic you will not be able to defeat more powerful enemies. Summon something, and use your magic!

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10/gallowglass_2008/th_ScreenShot97.jpg

Some Ashlanders use face paints (achieved by turning the skin tone slider to the far left, and adjusted by doing the same with the complexion slider) to give them camouflage, and the mystical symbols of which are believed to grant them magical defenses.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10/gallowglass_2008/Tila/th_jgvhfhrfgfgdfgerffgf-1-1.png

An ashkhan on a hunt with her tribesmen.

{{NewLine}}

===Barbarian===
Be a fierce and barbaric warrior! Create a Nord or Orc character. Only wear either fur, leather or chainmail armour. Use Two-Handed weapons (Claymores, Battle-Axes, Warhammers... [[Oblivion:Volendrung|Volendrung]] is a great choice for this).

Live in the mountains, and use the console to create or befriend other bandits and make them your barbarian friends. Make [[Oblivion:Dive Rock|Dive Rock]] or [[Oblivion:Gnoll Mountain|Gnoll Mountain]] your home. Live in a nice cave or house in the wilderness (e.g [[Oblivion:Brindle Home|Brindle Home]]), of course after the place is cleansed of the original inhabitants.

If you live at Brindle Home you might actually not kill the inhabitants for the fact that the people who live there are Hunters and Adventurers, similiar to you: a Barbarian, so you could live with them pretending they are your friends, drink the mead and ale with them, live with them, adventure along with them, etc.

Keep a collection of looted items, bones and skulls (nice for a skeleton puzzle). Keep a nice supply of booze so you can get drunk (along with your friends, see Above) after a successful raid. Go out and raid villages, caves and forts. Don't go into cities, since Barbarians don't really like cities. Barbarians like to explore alot the world that surrounds them. The wilderness is their home and land so try to get a full map (discover all possible locations) and loot many locations such as [[Oblivion:Rockmilk Cave|Rockmilk Cave]] from time to time.

{{NewLine}}

===Hiker===
[[Image:OB-ViewFromDiveRock.jpg|thumb|right|Your Ultimate Goal, Dive Rock]]
Nords work the best, with The Steed or The Thief birthsign. A class that Specializes in Stealth or Combat, and has major attributes such as Strength, Speed, Agility or Endurance should be used. For Major Skills, use Athletics, Acrobatics, Blade/Blunt/Hand-to-Hand, Light Armor, Block, Sneak and either Alchemy or Marksman.

Use the right clothes, depending on the place you are. A Full Fur Armor for when in the Snow Ice and extremely cold Mountains, like the Jerall or Valus Mountains (like Dive Rock). Use regular clothes or Leather armor in hotter places, like Anvil or Chorrol.

Your ultimate goal in life is to reach [[Oblivion:Dive Rock|Dive Rock]]. Prepare for every trip. You won't find deer or food in the mountains. Use followers as helpers, Don't leave anyone behind (unless its too late). Once you've reached Dive Rock you could act as though the diary was written by a relative, you should avenge the relative. Or even if it wasn't a relative, avenge a fellow hiker. Find flat pieces of land to camp at night, wake up early and continue.

===Hippie===

Race(s): Bosmer, Imperial or Nord
Specialization(s): Personality and Alchemy

* Peace and Love
* Live and let live
* Eat vegetables and not meat
* Go Protesting On the Streets
* Wear Hippie-like Clothes
* Wear sandals or no shoes
* Take Mind-Altering drugs like greenmote to expand your mind
* Love nature and respect life as it is
* live in the wild for days at a time
* Harm no animals even for self defense
* And don't wear fur if you see anyone wearing it curse them they are no longer your friends
Respect The Green Pact and harm no nature or plants in return for protection from Mara

{{NewLine}}

===Hunter===
A hunter is, simply, a character who hunts [[Oblivion:Deer|deer]] and the animals of the forest, such as [[Oblivion:Wolf|wolves]] and
[[Oblivion:Bear|bears]]. Your livelihood will come from these animals.

Talk to [[Oblivion:Honditar|Honditar]] to learn about the hunter lifestyle. You might want to pretend that Honditar gave you [[Oblivion:Venison|a map]] that shows you where the best places are to hunt for deer. Use alchemy to provide you with poisoned arrows so that you don't have to chase down deer. When you come across ruins, be cautious and rarely go in them. You're not out for treasure; leave the adventuring to adventurers. Carry a dagger so that when you need to clean an animal, put in a few well placed swipes, or just carry a knife and pretend you can't look in dead animal's inventories without it.

{{NewLine}}
===Ranger===
Rangers are isolated people who protect the wilderness and only kill when they need the food. They are grim in appearance, and dress primarily in green and brown clothes. Some rode rough-haired, sturdy horses and they were skilled with bows and swords. Find, and live in, an isolated house that no one is likely to visit (E.G. roland jenseric's cabin on the road between cheydinhal and the imperial city).

*Race(s): Bosmer,Imperial or Nord
*Default classes that are obvious choices: Scout or Archer
*Specialization(s): Agility and Speed
*Skill(s): Athletics, Blade ,Light Armor, Marksman, Sneak, Alchemy and Acrobatics
*Equipment: Forester's Shirt, Huntsman Leather Pants, Green Robe Hood and Huntsman Moccasin. Alternatively, using a Dark Green Shirt, Green Felt Pants, a Green Robe Hood, Leather Gauntlets (or bracers), and leather boots creates a nice effect.

Rangers have keen senses and abilities to understand the language of birds and beasts, making them great warriors. Protect the
wilderness from all trespassers of the forest. Clean up bandit camps and monsters of nature (ogres, goblins, etc). Only enter a fort/cave if there is evidence bandits/goblins are inside. Pick a certain area to patrol: the [[Oblivion:Great Forest|Great Forest]], the [[Oblivion:Valus Mountains|Valus Mountains]], [[Oblivion:Blackwood|Blackwood]], etc.

Pretend that in the First Era the Rangers had a group called the Keepers of the wood or something like that but over the the last two eras the rangers
mysteriously vanished into the deepest corners of Tamriels forests and now there is only few of your kind left and now the Rangers are a wandering Folk.
All of the Imperial Foresters are rangers so treat them as family.

Go on Goblin hunts and try to learn each of the tribes names and conditions, or make them go to war with each other.

{{NewLine}}

===Umbra===
Complete the [[Oblivion:Clavicus Vile|Clavicus Vile]] quest. Wear [[Oblivion:Umbra's Ebony Armor|Umbra's Armor]]. Equip yourself with the [[Oblivion:Umbra (sword)|Umbra]] Blade. An alternative (if you haven't access or interest in the above) is to enchant your favorite armor and favorite weapon and name them after your new title (eg. rename [[Oblivion: Orcish Cuirass|Orcish Cuirass]] "Umbra's Cuirass" and rename your [[Oblivion: Steel Warhammer|Steel Warhammer]] "Umbra's Warhammer"). Use [[Oblivion:Azura's Star|Azura's Star]] to charge your weapon when ever needed.

Find a good hideout near each city/village (eg. [[Oblivion: Quickwater Cave|Quickwater Cave]] is the perfect hiding place for terrorizing [[Oblivion: Cheydinhal| Cheydinhal]]). Kill all that occupy the hideout ([[Oblivion: Creatures|Creatures]] and especially [[Oblivion:Adventurer|Orc Adventurer]]). Keep all your valuables in the hide out. Keep all types of poisons to cover Umbra with.

Enter the village (eg. [[Oblivion:Pell's Gate|Pell's Gate]]) or city (eg. best start small with [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]] as the count isn't essential). Raise your bounty (either by using the [[Oblivion:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]] or by assaulting and resisting arrest). If you are playing the PC version you can remove their "essential" tag. Kill everyone in the area! Men and Mer!. After all are gone move to a new hideout near your next target area.

{{NewLine}}

===Uncivilized Being/Hermit===
'''Uncivilized Beings''' are pitiful creatures, lost/born in the wild and raised by animals. Thus, they have a loving kindness towards animals and protect them.

* Have Light Armour, Hand-To-Hand, Blade, Athletics, etc. as your major skills to show you were truly born in the wild and you have grown to use only what is around you. (Light Armour is for fur armour, Blade for the rusty dagger, Athletics for running from big animals like bears, and so on).

Make your character have dark-ish skin at the start of the game, to simulate a dirty face. Wear the minimal amount of clothes. Only use rusty daggers, as if you found one that someone threw away. Have long hair. Never attack an animal unless it attacks you first (Boots of the Crusader are useful for this, as the Woodland Grace ability stops ''natural'' creatures from attacking you). Survive off of fruits and vegetables. Pretend that you are afraid to go into town (or maybe when you do, you go crazy because the buildings aren't natural, and kill everyone).

Alternatively, you could roleplay being found by [[Oblivion:Roleplaying/Criminal|bandits]] one day and taken in as one of them. they might teach you their ways in the hope you will join them, or maybe you just kill them as soon as they try to approach you.

"Hermits" are people that live in the hills (preferably the Jerall Mts.). Like exiles, they are isolated from society, but not as a criminal but as a lifestyle. Wear grey robes and sandals or no sho's at all; a hood is optional. live in a camp or cave (Dive Rock is good) but never in a house. Avoid fighting, but when you must use Staves or Hand to Hand. Be old and bearded (you might be an old monk seeking peace and ways to find the Nine, pray to their Daedric princes, etc). Good skills are:

•Hand to Hand

•Athletics

•Acrobatics

•Illusion

•(2 more of your choosing)

===Outlaw===

'''Outlaws''' are criminals who are either on the run, or living in the wild.
*They usually attack travellers on the roads, (simillar to bandits), and always have a base camp where they store their loot. You could be a Robin Hood style outlaw, and have merry men.
*Honditar would make a good follower, so use command humanoid. There are other charcters who work.
*Experiment! Maybe go solo, work up a high bounty and live in the forest!
*You could live in a cave, and go outside when you need something. Only visit towns if you have to.
It's dangerous to do so.
* Marksman, athletics, acrobatics, stealth, illusion and blade. Maybe fur armour.
These are the best skills. Maybe create a custom class.

===Native American Tribesman/American Indian===

Become a Native American hunter!
* Any human class will work, but Redguards are the most suitable.
* For your major skills, select blade, marksman, light armor, sneak, armorer, hand to hand, and another of your choice.
* Find a camp with a large tent. Walker Camp is a great example. Use the tent as a tipi.
* Use your bow to hunt wild animals such as deer, boar or sheep. Use your sneaking skills to quickly take out a herd.
* Use the torch glitch to create a camp fire to cook meat on.
* Hunt lions, wolves and bears. Aim to kill at least 5 a day. After getting around 30 pelts, travel (i.e. walk or run) to a city and sell the pelts. Use the money to buy more arrows, hammers or another weapon.
* For these characters, fur armor is the best, but leather or even normal clothes will work just as well.
* Create a War Cry Spell that will terrify enemies
* Always take a shirt or armor or leave a quill (feather) to show who killed them
* Create a Tribe by recruiting followers

User talk:Goblin lair/Sandbox2/Bawn

2010-01-16T18:36:17Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Ghorack's Diary */ Reply

User talk:Ninja Hinder

2009-12-22T05:54:17Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Infernal City novel */ Reply

User talk:Ninja Hinder

2009-12-19T03:12:37Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Infernal City novel */

User talk:Goblin lair/Sandbox2/Bawn

2009-12-05T23:36:51Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Ghorack's Diary */ new section

== Move to the correctly named page ==

I was thinking about moving this to a correctly named page and so on but when I tried to move it to '''Shivering:Madness Ore''' is said that was already taken... but the page in question isn't about only '''Madness Ore'''.

PS: Should this page be marked as a stub?
-[[User:Goblin lair|Goblin lair]] 11:38, 5 August 2009

== Ghorack's Diary ==

I just read his first entry... Excellent! Your English has improved, too. :) [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:36, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin

2009-11-26T00:49:06Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Royal Assassin */

{{Roleplaying Header}}
{{TOCright}}
'''Assassins''' make their living by murdering NPCs, for hire or otherwise.

* Race: [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]] and [[Oblivion:Khajiit|Khajiit]] and [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]] are stealthy, and their cultures have permissive attitudes towards assassination, and [[Oblivion:Bosmer|Bosmer]] have acceptable racial attributes for assassins. However, almost any race is possible.
* Birthsigns: [[Oblivion:The Shadow|The Shadow]], [[Oblivion:The Thief|The Thief]], [[Oblivion:The Serpent|The Serpent]]
* Default classes that are obvious choices: [[Oblivion:Agent|Agent]], [[Oblivion:Assassin|Assassin]]
* Specialization: Stealth
* Skills: [[Oblivion:Acrobatics|Acrobatics]], [[Oblivion:Blade|Blade]], [[Oblivion:Illusion|Illusion]], [[Oblivion:Marksman|Marksman]], [[Oblivion:Sneak|Sneak]]
* Most assassins will want to be members of the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]], or, with some imagination, the [[Lore:Morag Tong|Morag Tong]].
* Equipment:
** Clothes include dark clothing, leather armor, such as the [[Oblivion:Shrouded Armor|Shrouded Armor]]; or wear the [[Oblivion:Morag Tong Armor|Morag Tong Armor]] or [[Oblivion:Raiment of the Crimson Scar|Raiment of the Crimson Scar]] if you have installed the [[Oblivion:Unearthing Mehrunes Razor|Unearthing Mehrunes Razor]] or [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] plug-ins, respectively.
** Enchant items with [[Oblivion:Chameleon|Chameleon]] effects.
** The [[Oblivion:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]] is particularly useful if you are an undercover assassin as it is effectively a second identity that you can use for crimes or other activities that would earn you infamy.
** Have a deadly powerful enchanted weapon (e.g., dagger or shortsword) that is your signature assassination tool. Enchant it and give it an appropriate name (e.g., "[Your name]'s Ceremonial Dagger").

==Possible Activities==
* Complete miscellaneous quests that involve assassination (e.g., [[Oblivion:Paranoia|Paranoia]])
* Create your own assassinations:
** Pick a target who wanders around and stalk him/her until alone.
*** Learn the target's schedule and find the best location and method for the murder.
** Pick a target who is likely to be an assassination target (counts and countesses, unpopular people, etc.)
** Talk with a citizen who "hires" you for an assassination. Receive your payment when the job is done by stealing or by using the [[Oblivion:Console|Console]]. You could also duplicate an item worth around 100 gold near your 'boss' and pick one up after every mission.
*** Decide on terms for the contract: should it look like an accident or not? Are other casualties acceptable?
** [[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] could be your contact who tells you about assassination targets and provides information about them.
* Create your own style of assassination. Either have one consistent style, or choose a style appropriate for the target
** Take a "prize" from each person you assassinate; a necklace, a book, etc.
** Make it look like an overdose or some other accident.
*** Kill the person in their house then "plant" several bottles of [[Oblivion:Skooma|Skooma]] around the body.
*** "Plant" a Dagger near the person's corpse, it will look like a suicide.
*** Kill the person then "push" the corpse down the stairs.
** Hide in hard to reach places (e.g., near the ceiling), wait for the target to appear, then kill them with your bow.
**Get a bound dagger spell, get them to like you, have a conversation with them, then POOF the dagger comes into your hand and you kill them.
**Another way to kill is to have a 100% Chameleon Armor item (Gauntlets, boots, etc.) Walk into a public place, unequip the piece of armor, stab them, equip the item, and then disappear into thin air.
* Mark the assassinated corpse to show that the target was assassinated. Have a calling card, leaving an item on the corpse or in the corpse's inventory.
** Examples: Nightshade flower, a silver arrow, a pearl
** Quills look like feathers and are good to use as a mark.
** The [[Oblivion:Rose of Sithis|Rose of Sithis]] is a distinctive calling card (but must be [[Oblivion:Duplication Glitch|duplicated]] if you want more than one copy).
** Nirnroot works well.
* Hide all corpses if you are strong enough. [[Oblivion:Controls#Grab|Drag]] the corpse out of sight or into a darker area.
** An easier way to drag a body around is to hold their head while moving backwards and sweep the corpse from side to side. When this fails to work because of obstacles, pull their legs over their head, then their head over their legs, bringing you to the same position you began with.
* Pay yourself by looting the house of the person who you killed.
* Have a large supply of powerful [[Oblivion:Alchemy|self-made]] poisons, [[Oblivion:Poisoned Apple|Poisoned Apple]]s, and [[Oblivion:Chokeberry|Chokeberries]].
* If you are a Dark Brotherhood member you can:
** Practice in the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary|Sanctuary]]'s training room.
** Pray to [[Lore:Sithis|Sithis]].
* Get as many [[Oblivion:Followers|Followers]] as you can and create your own Brotherhood or Organization of assassins.
**Buy [[Oblivion:Rosethorn Hall|Rosethorn Hall]] or [[Oblivion:Benirus Manor|Benirus Manor]] and always put your bodyguards "guarding" the door (tell them to wait, put two for each door outside and inside). Perhaps you are a bit stealthier than the others, but then again you are their leader, you know better ways to kill your targets...
**Become head of Battlehorn castle and use the stately home as a front for your activities, the basement could be your real home and you sneak down their in the dead of night to receive orders from your masters via the communication crystal...
** {{pc22}} Create permanent Command Humanoid spells to make followers "join" your organization.
** {{pc22}} Use the console to rename your organization's members
** Create tenets for your organization, and if members break them, punish them in your own way (suspended from the organization, murdered in front of everyone, etc.).

==Variations==
===Crimson Scar===
Become the most feared being in all of Tamriel. Worship [[Lore:Sithis|Sithis]] and quench his thirst for blood.

Become a [[Oblivion:Vampire|vampire]] and maintain level 4 vampirism (unless your contract calls for undercover work). Get contracts by clicking the [[Special:Random|Random Page]] link until you get a person in Oblivion who is not essential. Live in the [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] official plug-in and fully furnish it. Use the coffin bed as your only bed- no other will suffice! If you must sleep in a bed other than your own be sure to kill the current owner.

Become a master of [[Oblivion:Alchemy|alchemy]] and use poisons for every assassination. It's what the garden's for... If you have the [[Oblivion:Unearthing Mehrunes Razor|Unearthing Mehrunes Razor]] plug-in make a potion out of the beating heart and [[Oblivion:Glitches#Duplication Glitches|duplicate]] it. Every week go to the shrine and drink the potion to help maintain your power.

You see the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] as a threat so destroy them, they destroyed [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow (place)|Greywyn]]. Or as an alternative, join and infiltrate them to earn the Night Mother's trust.

Bring skeletons and Svenja's remains to the cell as your past victims. You could also bring other people to the cell such as a Dark Brotherhood assassin and the [[Oblivion:Adoring Fan|adoring fan]]. [[Oblivion:Erthor|Erthor]], Battlehorn castle guard, [[Oblivion:Maglir|Maglir]], KOTN, Mazoga and the Jemane Brothers can all be prisoners; fill that cell to the bars!

Wear the Raiment Of The Crimson Scars and use the [[Oblivion:Crimson Eviscerator|Crimson Eviscerator]] as your only blade. If possible get the [[Oblivion:Hatred's Soul|Hatred's Soul]] bow.

Be sure to send your minion out often. Do not kill other vampire assassins, they are the few remaining Crimson Scars left. You know the [[Oblivion:Vicente Valtieri|vampire in the Dark Brotherhood]], yes? Well befriend him and pretend he's a fellow scar. To advance in the Dark Brotherhood pretend he sacrificed himself to Sithis so you can continue. At some point in the game pretend your character finds out the truth of the Scars, and either kills or cures themselves. Or, seeing as we're roleplaying, just act as if being a vampire does not matter to Sithis.

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===Holy Assassin===
A Holy Assassin is an assassin who kills the sinful, or those who displease the object of their worship. Search out and assassinate NPCs who worship Sithis, the Night Mother, or Mehrunes Dagon. (Every non-essential member of the [[Oblivion:Thieves Guild|Thieves Guild]] can be killed without joining.) Although these evil people are well, evil, it's still a crime to kill them. You must find good ways to escape if you get caught, and also find great ways to do the job without getting caught.

Always lay a victim's body down peacefully before escaping the scene. If you really want to be hashashin then drink skooma after you assassinate someone. In the evenings, pray for forgiveness.
For an "Assassin's Creed" look, wear a [[Oblivion:White Monk Robe|White Monk Robe]], [[Oblivion:Grey Robe Hood|Grey Robe Hood]], and [[Oblivion:Leather Boots|Leather Boots]]
* {{pc22}} The unofficial mod "Hashashin Armor" is a nice touch, and a third-party mask mod may help to hide your face.

{{NewLine}}

===Listener===
Complete the Dark Brotherhood quest line to become Listener, then continue to roleplay. Make sure to collect new assassinations every week and bring them to [[Oblivion:Arquen|Arquen]] to receive your reward. Make the task be more complicated than simply clicking the statue and running back to Cheydinhal. Order one of the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood Murderer|Murderers]] to follow you to Bravil and help you. Have a Murderer stand guard by the Night Mother statue. On the PC, use the Console to rename the Murderer (for example, "Guardian of the Tomb").

Make regular offerings to the Night Mother; use jewels, flowers, food, or items taken from your victims. Create potions/poisons and give the vials names such as "Adamus Phillida's Blood". Place all of the vials of blood at the base of the statue.

Conduct periodic sacrifices to Sithis. Create an assassination ritual. For example, the target must be awake; you must use the [[Oblivion:Blade of Woe|Blade of Woe]] to kill the target; leave items with special significance on the corpse

Run the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary|Cheydinhal Sanctuary]]. Set up an office, for example, take over [[Oblivion:Vicente Valtieri|Vicente Valtieri]]'s room. Introduce the new members (e.g., the Murderers or any other [[Oblivion:Followers|followers]]) to the Sanctuary by giving them a tour, then assigning them a specific bed and drawers. Make sure the sanctuary is well supplied with weapons, poisons, stealth enchanted equipment, and other items needed by assassins. Take care of [[Oblivion:Schemer|Schemer]]: Put a plate with food on the ground daily.
*{{Pc22}} Use the [[Oblivion:console|console]] to respawn the previous members of the Brotherhood and repopulate the sanctuary. Also, always have at least a 1000 gold bounty. This adds realism because it makes you need to always be secret because the guards know your identity.

Appoint your own Silencer and three Speakers (using the Murderers). Make your Silencer wait at an Inn. Add Dark Brotherhood paraphernalia to the room (''[[Oblivion:The Five Tenets|The Five Tenets]]'', Black Hand Robe and Hood, appropriate weapons)
*{{Pc22}} Use the Console to add a Black Hand Robe and Hood to your appointees; change their names and faction membership.

Set up additional Sanctuaries elsewhere; [[Oblivion:the Oak and Crosier|The Oak and Crosier]] basement with its rumors about shady dealings, the Imperial City sewers, the Anvil Abandoned House, [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow_(place)|Deepscorn Hollow]] (if you have installed the [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] official mod), [[Oblivion:Dunbarrow Cove_(place)|Dunbarrow Cove]] (if you have installed the [[Oblivion:Thieves Den|Thieves Den]] official mod) and pretend the pirates are assassins.

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===Mythic Dawn Agent===
Become a member of the [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn|Mythic Dawn]]. Start the [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|Dagon Shrine]] quest, go to [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]], drop your items, and talk to [[Oblivion:Harrow|Harrow]]. Agree to become an initiate (and give Harrow all of your possessions). Do ''not'' go any further into the shrine, because you cannot get back out without giving up your Mythic Dawn membership. You are now officially an Acolyte of the Mythic Dawn. Retrieve all of the items that you dropped on the ground.

Imagine that at the start of the game you were already a Mythic Dawn agent who was arrested on purpose so that you could murder the Emperor. Talk to other Mythic Dawn agents (e.g., the sleeper agents in towns) to find out everything you can about the group.

Use Mythic Dawn equipment; wear the Mythic Dawn Robe and Hood, possibly enchanting a set of robes, use Daedric weapons, never use the [[Oblivion:Blades|Blades]]' Akaviri Katanas.
*{{Pc22}} Use the [[Oblivion:Console|Console]] commands <code>player.addspell 00022B37</code> (if you want to use a Bound Mace) or <code>player.addspell 00097C1F</code> (if you want to use a Bound Sword). These are the spells used by Mythic Dawn sleeper agents to conjure a complete set of armor and a weapon. The effect lasts for 1000 seconds. There are no hands shown in first person view (the weapon you are holding appears to be floating in front of you) since this spell was only intended for use by NPCs. It works fine in third person view.

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===Ninja===
'''Backstory''': This character will love martial arts and try to succeed in all walks of life, be it fighting, theiving, using magic, or even just running fast. Ninja are born to be used as special tools for whoever is willing to employ them, or for free if they're patriotic enough. A fast character using little armor and being able to sneak works well for this. A Ninja needs a purpose—something that drives him or her, whether it be bringing peace to the world, furthering his or her skills, or vengeance.

'''Character'''
Suggested character statistics:
*Birthsigns: [[Oblivion:The Thief|The Thief]], [[Oblivion:The Shadow|The Shadow]], or [[Oblivion:The Warrior|The Warrior]]
*Attributes: [[Oblivion:Agility|Agility]], [[Oblivion:Speed|Speed]], or [[Oblivion:Strength|Strength]].
*Skills: [[Oblivion:Acrobatics|Acrobatics]], [[Oblivion:Blade|Blade]], [[Oblivion:Block|Block]], [[Oblivion:Hand to Hand|Hand to Hand]], [[Oblivion:Light Armor|Light Armor]], [[Oblivion:Marksman|Marksman]], [[Oblivion:Sneak|Sneak]]
*Alternate skills:
**If you want your ninja to be fluent in the ancient arts of magic, use [[Oblivion:Illusion|Illusion]] (Ninjutsu is the Art of [[Oblivion:Illusion|Illusion]]) or possibly [[Oblivion:Alteration|Alteration]] (one rumored ability of Ninjas was [[Oblivion:Water Walking|Water Walking]]).
**[[Oblivion:Alchemy|Alchemy]]: A Ninja that knows how to brew for survival.
**[[Oblivion:Athletics|Athletics]]: Fleetness of foot is a traditional attribute of ninjas.
**[[Oblivion:Destruction|Destruction]]: The Ninja uses the powers of the earth to destroy enemies.

'''Equipment'''
*Use a cutlass or an [[Oblivion:Akaviri Katana|Akaviri Katana]]/[[Oblivion:Dai-Katana|Dai-Katana]]. The [[Oblivion:Ebony Blade|Ebony Blade]] and [[Oblivion:Goldbrand|Goldbrand]] are both ideal for your Ninja because of their unadorned look.
*If you have the [[Shivering:Shivering Isles|Shivering Isles]] expansion pack, the [[Shivering:Dark Shortsword|Dark Shortsword]] will work as a Wakizashi or a Ninjato and the [[Shivering:Grummite Dagger|Grummite Dagger]] resembles a kunai. Both can be enchanted (and renamed).
*The [[Shivering:Dark Bow|Dark Bow]] works well as your bow.
*Try to improvise with what is available to you rather than simply carrying large amounts of weaponry. For example, steal a nearby weapon, use it to slay your victim, and then plant the weapon on the victim to make it look like a suicide. Or you could perhaps pretend that your character possesses a hidden weapon which is cunningly disguised as a piece of jewelry.
*Don’t forget that your character can also rely on their own fists as a master of martial arts, and not to mention powerful destruction spells.
*A ninja doesn't necessarily have to wear an archetypical all-black outfit. Think tactically about how you dress your ninja character depending on the circumstances. Maybe you disguise your character in order to get closer to the intended target without arousing suspicion. Masquerade as a common beggar, a peasant or even a farmer to avoid suspicion, and then strike when the target least expects it.
*A ninja would wear very lightweight shoes, no matter what the task at hand was, to enable better sneaking.

'''Ideas'''
Ninja were used for espionage, sabotage, and of course, assassination. Perhaps you were employed by a certain agency such as the Fighter's Guild or Dark Brotherhood to assassinate a key member of a different faction, or just scope out the faction's defenses. A ninja would go undercover to learn about their mark and then report to whoever they needed, to accept their pay or even just a pat on the back.

''Espionage''
There is a wide array of different tactics for espionage.

*If you were ordered to learn about the defenses of a city, then you would go undercover, maybe as a travelor or a merchant, and learn as much as you can about the guards, their posts, and the city itself.

*If you were to report about the defenses of a castle, then you would use stealth after seeing what the public areas of the castle were like. Look at the number of guards and the abilities of the count, countess, and guard captain. Don't get caught.

*You could have been assigned to discover the financial situation of an inn or store. To do this you could see how much money the merchant has to offer, and examine the prices of each item. You could even see what furnishings the building has.

*If you get caught doing anything illegal, pay the fine but don't tell the authorities anything. If you must, resist arrest and run. Never, ever go to jail. Pay the fine later when you have the money. If you're caught doing anything legal, like the store owner discovering what your true intentions are, consider the mission failed. Cut your losses and skip town.

*Perhaps if you fail, your master will end your life. Fight for it, and find a better employer. Don't let anybody know who you really are except an employer.

''Sabotage''
Since destroying buildings isn't a feasible option, sabotage is limited as an option.

*Make sure you find an employer that will employ your skills and then pay you using any method.

*A good option for sabotage is to steal key objects from any enemies.

*Speaking of keys, stealing all copies of any sort of key can cause problems for your enemies, such as stealing all keys to a container that contains key items.

*Stealing armor, weapons, and food will present drawbacks to your enemies, since they will have to buy replacements. Stealing scrolls or soul gems could cripple enemy offenses or defenses.

''Assassination''
Many people mistake this as the only task that ninja carried out.

*If you're employed to kill a certain mark and unlink the chain of command of the enemy, (The enemy being whoever your employer wants.) then find out as much as possible about your mark. Start with where they're located, of course.

*Once you know about your mark, figure out his schedule, perhaps befriend him. This works best by going undercover, but sneaking around could work.

*Sneak into his/her house and learn about it.

*Once you know all you need to know, prepare by getting the right poisons, potions, and spells. Get the right weapons and armor for the scenario, and prepare a cover story if the guards capture you before you leave town. Find the correct time and place for the kill. Don't take to long, and a good escape if your stealth is compromised. Your successful escape is much more important than the mark dying, if it comes to that.

*If your character is a female ninja (also known as Kunoichi), maybe they can use their gender to their advantage in order to get closer to their target. For example: disguise your character as a dancer or some type of entertainer, use a powerful charm spell on the intended target to get them to like you, and then slay the unsuspecting victim when they are alone with you. Use effective disguises and guile rather than direct combat. Only engage in combat if your character is ever discovered, or if you suspect that they might have been exposed.

Above all, have fun and love every minute of being a Ninja!

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===Samurai===
The Samurai clans in Cyrodiil are all but destroyed and you are the last of the last clan to survive the first four eras in Cyrodilic history. You're trying to establish (or re-establish if your original members broke up, perhaps due to a war) a faction for samurais. Set up a samurai faction at [[Oblivion:Cloud Ruler Temple|Cloud Ruler Temple]] or [[Oblivion:Battlehorn Castle (place)|Battlehorn Castle]].
*{{pc22}}The Akaviri Kojima or Snow Dragon Temple third-party mods are also good choices.

Best played as a male or female Imperial or Redguard. Give your character a Japanese name, like Yoshitsune, Kansuke, Hikaru, Musashi, etc. Dress in Orcish or Ebony armor (Helmet, Cuirass, and Gauntlets) for a famous character, or Daedric armor (Helmet, Cuirass, and Gauntlets) for an infamous. Wear sandals (waraji) and pants (hakama) instead of boots and greaves for an authentic samurai look. The [[Oblivion:Masque of Clavicus Vile|Masque of Clavicus Vile]] also works well. Equip yourself with an Akaviri Katana or a Dai-Katana, a dagger for a tanto, a shortsword for a wakizashi, and a bow for a yumi.
*{{pc22}}The {{tesnexus|4167|Akaviri Imports}} third-party mod offers Katanas, Dai-Katanas, Tantos, and Wakizashis.

When creating potions or poisons, name them "Sake of..." or something similar.

Choose a master to serve and complete self-made quests for, like Captain Steffan or Jauffre. Your master may eventually send you on a quest that endangers the Empire, the Province, or your samurai faction, in which case you would kill them and take their place. After your master is dead you must either commit seppuku, ritual suicide by disembowelment (simulate seppuku by consuming a [[Oblivion:Poisoned Apple|Poisoned Apple]] (raw or the "Liquid Seppuku" Sake), or become a Ronin, a dishonored, masterless samurai.

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===Royal Assassin===
Royal Assassins work for a specific Count or Countess or perhaps even Chancellor Ocato. If you want someone who is unessential so you can one day betray your Count(kill them), choose [[Oblivion:Count Regulus Terentius|Count Regulus Terentius]].

As the assassin for the Count or Countess, you assassinate their political rivals, or anyone who disagrees with their laws.

Kill those responsible for publishing dangerous radical ideas. Pretend that the Black Horse Courier has been publishing articles about democratic ideals and the Count/Countess wants you to kill the owners and destroy the articles.

Ambush couriers on horseback before they can deliver their dangerous articles. This is good in part because the courier npcs respawn.

Or perhaps there is a new philosopher preaching dangerous ideas. Dispose of those heretics!

The Blind Moth Prelates have been preaching radical ideas. Eliminate them and their priests!

Work as the Count's Advisor, disguising yourself when you carry out his assassinations. Perhaps you are corrupting him, advising him who needs to be assassinated and carrying it out yourself. You are working to establish your own power so you can one day become Count.

Perhaps the Count just wants to rid the land of evil and sends you to assassinate bandit leaders or necromancer leaders, or other evil npcs.

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===Shadowscale===
[[Lore:Shadowscales|Shadowscales]] are stealthy [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]] assassins from the [[Lore:Black Marsh|Black Marsh]], who have been born under the sign of [[Oblivion:the Shadow|the Shadow]]. They are trained in stealth and combat from childhood. See [[Oblivion:The Renegade Shadowscale|The Renegade Shadowscale]] quest for background. You must be an Argonian with the Shadow birthsign

Investigate [[Oblivion:Countess Alessia Caro|Countess Alessia Caro]] to find out whether she is torturing Argonians, then take your revenge.

You could be a renegade being pursued by agents from the Black Marsh. Move from camp to camp, never staying in one place for more than a few days; hide in a cave or in the mountains.

You could also be a relcutant Shadowscale, killing others to make sure your life isn't taken by darker forces. Perhaps you feel guilty each time you kill someone and you go to a bar to drink heavily. (Be Creative)

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===Undercover Agent===
Undercover Agents focus on secrecy, making sure that nobody knows their profession.

Live as a normal person, until you have a job. Own a house, have normal clothes, carry items consistent with your cover story. Keep no evidence of your past assassinations. Never be caught wearing your assassination equipment. Wear different clothes when doing undercover work. Disguise yourself to infiltrate areas. For example, in a conjurer's lair wear conjurer's robes.

Infiltrate guilds, acting as a spy within the guild. For example, join the Thieves Guild and work to get close to the Gray Fox and discover his true identity. Don't reveal your actual skills when undercover. Don't do any more for your target guild than possible (e.g., don't steal any more than you are required to).

You could "become" the person you kill: after assassinating them you take their clothes and go about their daily schedule, sleeping in their house, and so on. When you think someone is close to figuring out who you are, you could skip town and find a new person to live as.

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Oblivion:Roleplaying/Assassin

2009-11-26T00:47:35Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Royal Assassin */ added a link

{{Roleplaying Header}}
{{TOCright}}
'''Assassins''' make their living by murdering NPCs, for hire or otherwise.

* Race: [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]] and [[Oblivion:Khajiit|Khajiit]] and [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]] are stealthy, and their cultures have permissive attitudes towards assassination, and [[Oblivion:Bosmer|Bosmer]] have acceptable racial attributes for assassins. However, almost any race is possible.
* Birthsigns: [[Oblivion:The Shadow|The Shadow]], [[Oblivion:The Thief|The Thief]], [[Oblivion:The Serpent|The Serpent]]
* Default classes that are obvious choices: [[Oblivion:Agent|Agent]], [[Oblivion:Assassin|Assassin]]
* Specialization: Stealth
* Skills: [[Oblivion:Acrobatics|Acrobatics]], [[Oblivion:Blade|Blade]], [[Oblivion:Illusion|Illusion]], [[Oblivion:Marksman|Marksman]], [[Oblivion:Sneak|Sneak]]
* Most assassins will want to be members of the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]], or, with some imagination, the [[Lore:Morag Tong|Morag Tong]].
* Equipment:
** Clothes include dark clothing, leather armor, such as the [[Oblivion:Shrouded Armor|Shrouded Armor]]; or wear the [[Oblivion:Morag Tong Armor|Morag Tong Armor]] or [[Oblivion:Raiment of the Crimson Scar|Raiment of the Crimson Scar]] if you have installed the [[Oblivion:Unearthing Mehrunes Razor|Unearthing Mehrunes Razor]] or [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] plug-ins, respectively.
** Enchant items with [[Oblivion:Chameleon|Chameleon]] effects.
** The [[Oblivion:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]] is particularly useful if you are an undercover assassin as it is effectively a second identity that you can use for crimes or other activities that would earn you infamy.
** Have a deadly powerful enchanted weapon (e.g., dagger or shortsword) that is your signature assassination tool. Enchant it and give it an appropriate name (e.g., "[Your name]'s Ceremonial Dagger").

==Possible Activities==
* Complete miscellaneous quests that involve assassination (e.g., [[Oblivion:Paranoia|Paranoia]])
* Create your own assassinations:
** Pick a target who wanders around and stalk him/her until alone.
*** Learn the target's schedule and find the best location and method for the murder.
** Pick a target who is likely to be an assassination target (counts and countesses, unpopular people, etc.)
** Talk with a citizen who "hires" you for an assassination. Receive your payment when the job is done by stealing or by using the [[Oblivion:Console|Console]]. You could also duplicate an item worth around 100 gold near your 'boss' and pick one up after every mission.
*** Decide on terms for the contract: should it look like an accident or not? Are other casualties acceptable?
** [[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] could be your contact who tells you about assassination targets and provides information about them.
* Create your own style of assassination. Either have one consistent style, or choose a style appropriate for the target
** Take a "prize" from each person you assassinate; a necklace, a book, etc.
** Make it look like an overdose or some other accident.
*** Kill the person in their house then "plant" several bottles of [[Oblivion:Skooma|Skooma]] around the body.
*** "Plant" a Dagger near the person's corpse, it will look like a suicide.
*** Kill the person then "push" the corpse down the stairs.
** Hide in hard to reach places (e.g., near the ceiling), wait for the target to appear, then kill them with your bow.
**Get a bound dagger spell, get them to like you, have a conversation with them, then POOF the dagger comes into your hand and you kill them.
**Another way to kill is to have a 100% Chameleon Armor item (Gauntlets, boots, etc.) Walk into a public place, unequip the piece of armor, stab them, equip the item, and then disappear into thin air.
* Mark the assassinated corpse to show that the target was assassinated. Have a calling card, leaving an item on the corpse or in the corpse's inventory.
** Examples: Nightshade flower, a silver arrow, a pearl
** Quills look like feathers and are good to use as a mark.
** The [[Oblivion:Rose of Sithis|Rose of Sithis]] is a distinctive calling card (but must be [[Oblivion:Duplication Glitch|duplicated]] if you want more than one copy).
** Nirnroot works well.
* Hide all corpses if you are strong enough. [[Oblivion:Controls#Grab|Drag]] the corpse out of sight or into a darker area.
** An easier way to drag a body around is to hold their head while moving backwards and sweep the corpse from side to side. When this fails to work because of obstacles, pull their legs over their head, then their head over their legs, bringing you to the same position you began with.
* Pay yourself by looting the house of the person who you killed.
* Have a large supply of powerful [[Oblivion:Alchemy|self-made]] poisons, [[Oblivion:Poisoned Apple|Poisoned Apple]]s, and [[Oblivion:Chokeberry|Chokeberries]].
* If you are a Dark Brotherhood member you can:
** Practice in the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary|Sanctuary]]'s training room.
** Pray to [[Lore:Sithis|Sithis]].
* Get as many [[Oblivion:Followers|Followers]] as you can and create your own Brotherhood or Organization of assassins.
**Buy [[Oblivion:Rosethorn Hall|Rosethorn Hall]] or [[Oblivion:Benirus Manor|Benirus Manor]] and always put your bodyguards "guarding" the door (tell them to wait, put two for each door outside and inside). Perhaps you are a bit stealthier than the others, but then again you are their leader, you know better ways to kill your targets...
**Become head of Battlehorn castle and use the stately home as a front for your activities, the basement could be your real home and you sneak down their in the dead of night to receive orders from your masters via the communication crystal...
** {{pc22}} Create permanent Command Humanoid spells to make followers "join" your organization.
** {{pc22}} Use the console to rename your organization's members
** Create tenets for your organization, and if members break them, punish them in your own way (suspended from the organization, murdered in front of everyone, etc.).

==Variations==
===Crimson Scar===
Become the most feared being in all of Tamriel. Worship [[Lore:Sithis|Sithis]] and quench his thirst for blood.

Become a [[Oblivion:Vampire|vampire]] and maintain level 4 vampirism (unless your contract calls for undercover work). Get contracts by clicking the [[Special:Random|Random Page]] link until you get a person in Oblivion who is not essential. Live in the [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] official plug-in and fully furnish it. Use the coffin bed as your only bed- no other will suffice! If you must sleep in a bed other than your own be sure to kill the current owner.

Become a master of [[Oblivion:Alchemy|alchemy]] and use poisons for every assassination. It's what the garden's for... If you have the [[Oblivion:Unearthing Mehrunes Razor|Unearthing Mehrunes Razor]] plug-in make a potion out of the beating heart and [[Oblivion:Glitches#Duplication Glitches|duplicate]] it. Every week go to the shrine and drink the potion to help maintain your power.

You see the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] as a threat so destroy them, they destroyed [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow (place)|Greywyn]]. Or as an alternative, join and infiltrate them to earn the Night Mother's trust.

Bring skeletons and Svenja's remains to the cell as your past victims. You could also bring other people to the cell such as a Dark Brotherhood assassin and the [[Oblivion:Adoring Fan|adoring fan]]. [[Oblivion:Erthor|Erthor]], Battlehorn castle guard, [[Oblivion:Maglir|Maglir]], KOTN, Mazoga and the Jemane Brothers can all be prisoners; fill that cell to the bars!

Wear the Raiment Of The Crimson Scars and use the [[Oblivion:Crimson Eviscerator|Crimson Eviscerator]] as your only blade. If possible get the [[Oblivion:Hatred's Soul|Hatred's Soul]] bow.

Be sure to send your minion out often. Do not kill other vampire assassins, they are the few remaining Crimson Scars left. You know the [[Oblivion:Vicente Valtieri|vampire in the Dark Brotherhood]], yes? Well befriend him and pretend he's a fellow scar. To advance in the Dark Brotherhood pretend he sacrificed himself to Sithis so you can continue. At some point in the game pretend your character finds out the truth of the Scars, and either kills or cures themselves. Or, seeing as we're roleplaying, just act as if being a vampire does not matter to Sithis.

{{NewLine}}

===Holy Assassin===
A Holy Assassin is an assassin who kills the sinful, or those who displease the object of their worship. Search out and assassinate NPCs who worship Sithis, the Night Mother, or Mehrunes Dagon. (Every non-essential member of the [[Oblivion:Thieves Guild|Thieves Guild]] can be killed without joining.) Although these evil people are well, evil, it's still a crime to kill them. You must find good ways to escape if you get caught, and also find great ways to do the job without getting caught.

Always lay a victim's body down peacefully before escaping the scene. If you really want to be hashashin then drink skooma after you assassinate someone. In the evenings, pray for forgiveness.
For an "Assassin's Creed" look, wear a [[Oblivion:White Monk Robe|White Monk Robe]], [[Oblivion:Grey Robe Hood|Grey Robe Hood]], and [[Oblivion:Leather Boots|Leather Boots]]
* {{pc22}} The unofficial mod "Hashashin Armor" is a nice touch, and a third-party mask mod may help to hide your face.

{{NewLine}}

===Listener===
Complete the Dark Brotherhood quest line to become Listener, then continue to roleplay. Make sure to collect new assassinations every week and bring them to [[Oblivion:Arquen|Arquen]] to receive your reward. Make the task be more complicated than simply clicking the statue and running back to Cheydinhal. Order one of the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood Murderer|Murderers]] to follow you to Bravil and help you. Have a Murderer stand guard by the Night Mother statue. On the PC, use the Console to rename the Murderer (for example, "Guardian of the Tomb").

Make regular offerings to the Night Mother; use jewels, flowers, food, or items taken from your victims. Create potions/poisons and give the vials names such as "Adamus Phillida's Blood". Place all of the vials of blood at the base of the statue.

Conduct periodic sacrifices to Sithis. Create an assassination ritual. For example, the target must be awake; you must use the [[Oblivion:Blade of Woe|Blade of Woe]] to kill the target; leave items with special significance on the corpse

Run the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary|Cheydinhal Sanctuary]]. Set up an office, for example, take over [[Oblivion:Vicente Valtieri|Vicente Valtieri]]'s room. Introduce the new members (e.g., the Murderers or any other [[Oblivion:Followers|followers]]) to the Sanctuary by giving them a tour, then assigning them a specific bed and drawers. Make sure the sanctuary is well supplied with weapons, poisons, stealth enchanted equipment, and other items needed by assassins. Take care of [[Oblivion:Schemer|Schemer]]: Put a plate with food on the ground daily.
*{{Pc22}} Use the [[Oblivion:console|console]] to respawn the previous members of the Brotherhood and repopulate the sanctuary. Also, always have at least a 1000 gold bounty. This adds realism because it makes you need to always be secret because the guards know your identity.

Appoint your own Silencer and three Speakers (using the Murderers). Make your Silencer wait at an Inn. Add Dark Brotherhood paraphernalia to the room (''[[Oblivion:The Five Tenets|The Five Tenets]]'', Black Hand Robe and Hood, appropriate weapons)
*{{Pc22}} Use the Console to add a Black Hand Robe and Hood to your appointees; change their names and faction membership.

Set up additional Sanctuaries elsewhere; [[Oblivion:the Oak and Crosier|The Oak and Crosier]] basement with its rumors about shady dealings, the Imperial City sewers, the Anvil Abandoned House, [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow_(place)|Deepscorn Hollow]] (if you have installed the [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] official mod), [[Oblivion:Dunbarrow Cove_(place)|Dunbarrow Cove]] (if you have installed the [[Oblivion:Thieves Den|Thieves Den]] official mod) and pretend the pirates are assassins.

{{NewLine}}
===Mythic Dawn Agent===
Become a member of the [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn|Mythic Dawn]]. Start the [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|Dagon Shrine]] quest, go to [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]], drop your items, and talk to [[Oblivion:Harrow|Harrow]]. Agree to become an initiate (and give Harrow all of your possessions). Do ''not'' go any further into the shrine, because you cannot get back out without giving up your Mythic Dawn membership. You are now officially an Acolyte of the Mythic Dawn. Retrieve all of the items that you dropped on the ground.

Imagine that at the start of the game you were already a Mythic Dawn agent who was arrested on purpose so that you could murder the Emperor. Talk to other Mythic Dawn agents (e.g., the sleeper agents in towns) to find out everything you can about the group.

Use Mythic Dawn equipment; wear the Mythic Dawn Robe and Hood, possibly enchanting a set of robes, use Daedric weapons, never use the [[Oblivion:Blades|Blades]]' Akaviri Katanas.
*{{Pc22}} Use the [[Oblivion:Console|Console]] commands <code>player.addspell 00022B37</code> (if you want to use a Bound Mace) or <code>player.addspell 00097C1F</code> (if you want to use a Bound Sword). These are the spells used by Mythic Dawn sleeper agents to conjure a complete set of armor and a weapon. The effect lasts for 1000 seconds. There are no hands shown in first person view (the weapon you are holding appears to be floating in front of you) since this spell was only intended for use by NPCs. It works fine in third person view.

{{NewLine}}
===Ninja===
'''Backstory''': This character will love martial arts and try to succeed in all walks of life, be it fighting, theiving, using magic, or even just running fast. Ninja are born to be used as special tools for whoever is willing to employ them, or for free if they're patriotic enough. A fast character using little armor and being able to sneak works well for this. A Ninja needs a purpose—something that drives him or her, whether it be bringing peace to the world, furthering his or her skills, or vengeance.

'''Character'''
Suggested character statistics:
*Birthsigns: [[Oblivion:The Thief|The Thief]], [[Oblivion:The Shadow|The Shadow]], or [[Oblivion:The Warrior|The Warrior]]
*Attributes: [[Oblivion:Agility|Agility]], [[Oblivion:Speed|Speed]], or [[Oblivion:Strength|Strength]].
*Skills: [[Oblivion:Acrobatics|Acrobatics]], [[Oblivion:Blade|Blade]], [[Oblivion:Block|Block]], [[Oblivion:Hand to Hand|Hand to Hand]], [[Oblivion:Light Armor|Light Armor]], [[Oblivion:Marksman|Marksman]], [[Oblivion:Sneak|Sneak]]
*Alternate skills:
**If you want your ninja to be fluent in the ancient arts of magic, use [[Oblivion:Illusion|Illusion]] (Ninjutsu is the Art of [[Oblivion:Illusion|Illusion]]) or possibly [[Oblivion:Alteration|Alteration]] (one rumored ability of Ninjas was [[Oblivion:Water Walking|Water Walking]]).
**[[Oblivion:Alchemy|Alchemy]]: A Ninja that knows how to brew for survival.
**[[Oblivion:Athletics|Athletics]]: Fleetness of foot is a traditional attribute of ninjas.
**[[Oblivion:Destruction|Destruction]]: The Ninja uses the powers of the earth to destroy enemies.

'''Equipment'''
*Use a cutlass or an [[Oblivion:Akaviri Katana|Akaviri Katana]]/[[Oblivion:Dai-Katana|Dai-Katana]]. The [[Oblivion:Ebony Blade|Ebony Blade]] and [[Oblivion:Goldbrand|Goldbrand]] are both ideal for your Ninja because of their unadorned look.
*If you have the [[Shivering:Shivering Isles|Shivering Isles]] expansion pack, the [[Shivering:Dark Shortsword|Dark Shortsword]] will work as a Wakizashi or a Ninjato and the [[Shivering:Grummite Dagger|Grummite Dagger]] resembles a kunai. Both can be enchanted (and renamed).
*The [[Shivering:Dark Bow|Dark Bow]] works well as your bow.
*Try to improvise with what is available to you rather than simply carrying large amounts of weaponry. For example, steal a nearby weapon, use it to slay your victim, and then plant the weapon on the victim to make it look like a suicide. Or you could perhaps pretend that your character possesses a hidden weapon which is cunningly disguised as a piece of jewelry.
*Don’t forget that your character can also rely on their own fists as a master of martial arts, and not to mention powerful destruction spells.
*A ninja doesn't necessarily have to wear an archetypical all-black outfit. Think tactically about how you dress your ninja character depending on the circumstances. Maybe you disguise your character in order to get closer to the intended target without arousing suspicion. Masquerade as a common beggar, a peasant or even a farmer to avoid suspicion, and then strike when the target least expects it.
*A ninja would wear very lightweight shoes, no matter what the task at hand was, to enable better sneaking.

'''Ideas'''
Ninja were used for espionage, sabotage, and of course, assassination. Perhaps you were employed by a certain agency such as the Fighter's Guild or Dark Brotherhood to assassinate a key member of a different faction, or just scope out the faction's defenses. A ninja would go undercover to learn about their mark and then report to whoever they needed, to accept their pay or even just a pat on the back.

''Espionage''
There is a wide array of different tactics for espionage.

*If you were ordered to learn about the defenses of a city, then you would go undercover, maybe as a travelor or a merchant, and learn as much as you can about the guards, their posts, and the city itself.

*If you were to report about the defenses of a castle, then you would use stealth after seeing what the public areas of the castle were like. Look at the number of guards and the abilities of the count, countess, and guard captain. Don't get caught.

*You could have been assigned to discover the financial situation of an inn or store. To do this you could see how much money the merchant has to offer, and examine the prices of each item. You could even see what furnishings the building has.

*If you get caught doing anything illegal, pay the fine but don't tell the authorities anything. If you must, resist arrest and run. Never, ever go to jail. Pay the fine later when you have the money. If you're caught doing anything legal, like the store owner discovering what your true intentions are, consider the mission failed. Cut your losses and skip town.

*Perhaps if you fail, your master will end your life. Fight for it, and find a better employer. Don't let anybody know who you really are except an employer.

''Sabotage''
Since destroying buildings isn't a feasible option, sabotage is limited as an option.

*Make sure you find an employer that will employ your skills and then pay you using any method.

*A good option for sabotage is to steal key objects from any enemies.

*Speaking of keys, stealing all copies of any sort of key can cause problems for your enemies, such as stealing all keys to a container that contains key items.

*Stealing armor, weapons, and food will present drawbacks to your enemies, since they will have to buy replacements. Stealing scrolls or soul gems could cripple enemy offenses or defenses.

''Assassination''
Many people mistake this as the only task that ninja carried out.

*If you're employed to kill a certain mark and unlink the chain of command of the enemy, (The enemy being whoever your employer wants.) then find out as much as possible about your mark. Start with where they're located, of course.

*Once you know about your mark, figure out his schedule, perhaps befriend him. This works best by going undercover, but sneaking around could work.

*Sneak into his/her house and learn about it.

*Once you know all you need to know, prepare by getting the right poisons, potions, and spells. Get the right weapons and armor for the scenario, and prepare a cover story if the guards capture you before you leave town. Find the correct time and place for the kill. Don't take to long, and a good escape if your stealth is compromised. Your successful escape is much more important than the mark dying, if it comes to that.

*If your character is a female ninja (also known as Kunoichi), maybe they can use their gender to their advantage in order to get closer to their target. For example: disguise your character as a dancer or some type of entertainer, use a powerful charm spell on the intended target to get them to like you, and then slay the unsuspecting victim when they are alone with you. Use effective disguises and guile rather than direct combat. Only engage in combat if your character is ever discovered, or if you suspect that they might have been exposed.

Above all, have fun and love every minute of being a Ninja!

{{NewLine}}

===Samurai===
The Samurai clans in Cyrodiil are all but destroyed and you are the last of the last clan to survive the first four eras in Cyrodilic history. You're trying to establish (or re-establish if your original members broke up, perhaps due to a war) a faction for samurais. Set up a samurai faction at [[Oblivion:Cloud Ruler Temple|Cloud Ruler Temple]] or [[Oblivion:Battlehorn Castle (place)|Battlehorn Castle]].
*{{pc22}}The Akaviri Kojima or Snow Dragon Temple third-party mods are also good choices.

Best played as a male or female Imperial or Redguard. Give your character a Japanese name, like Yoshitsune, Kansuke, Hikaru, Musashi, etc. Dress in Orcish or Ebony armor (Helmet, Cuirass, and Gauntlets) for a famous character, or Daedric armor (Helmet, Cuirass, and Gauntlets) for an infamous. Wear sandals (waraji) and pants (hakama) instead of boots and greaves for an authentic samurai look. The [[Oblivion:Masque of Clavicus Vile|Masque of Clavicus Vile]] also works well. Equip yourself with an Akaviri Katana or a Dai-Katana, a dagger for a tanto, a shortsword for a wakizashi, and a bow for a yumi.
*{{pc22}}The {{tesnexus|4167|Akaviri Imports}} third-party mod offers Katanas, Dai-Katanas, Tantos, and Wakizashis.

When creating potions or poisons, name them "Sake of..." or something similar.

Choose a master to serve and complete self-made quests for, like Captain Steffan or Jauffre. Your master may eventually send you on a quest that endangers the Empire, the Province, or your samurai faction, in which case you would kill them and take their place. After your master is dead you must either commit seppuku, ritual suicide by disembowelment (simulate seppuku by consuming a [[Oblivion:Poisoned Apple|Poisoned Apple]] (raw or the "Liquid Seppuku" Sake), or become a Ronin, a dishonored, masterless samurai.

{{NewLine}}
===Royal Assassin===
Royal Assassins work for a specific Count or Countess or perhaps even Chancellor Ocato. If you want someone who is unessential so you can one day betray your Count(kill them), choose Count [[Oblivion:Regules Terentius|Regulus Terentius]].

As the assassin for the Count or Countess, you assassinate their political rivals, or anyone who disagrees with their laws.

Kill those responsible for publishing dangerous radical ideas. Pretend that the Black Horse Courier has been publishing articles about democratic ideals and the Count/Countess wants you to kill the owners and destroy the articles.

Ambush couriers on horseback before they can deliver their dangerous articles. This is good in part because the courier npcs respawn.

Or perhaps there is a new philosopher preaching dangerous ideas. Dispose of those heretics!

The Blind Moth Prelates have been preaching radical ideas. Eliminate them and their priests!

Work as the Count's Advisor, disguising yourself when you carry out his assassinations. Perhaps you are corrupting him, advising him who needs to be assassinated and carrying it out yourself. You are working to establish your own power so you can one day become Count.

Perhaps the Count just wants to rid the land of evil and sends you to assassinate bandit leaders or necromancer leaders, or other evil npcs.

{{NewLine}}

===Shadowscale===
[[Lore:Shadowscales|Shadowscales]] are stealthy [[Oblivion:Argonian|Argonian]] assassins from the [[Lore:Black Marsh|Black Marsh]], who have been born under the sign of [[Oblivion:the Shadow|the Shadow]]. They are trained in stealth and combat from childhood. See [[Oblivion:The Renegade Shadowscale|The Renegade Shadowscale]] quest for background. You must be an Argonian with the Shadow birthsign

Investigate [[Oblivion:Countess Alessia Caro|Countess Alessia Caro]] to find out whether she is torturing Argonians, then take your revenge.

You could be a renegade being pursued by agents from the Black Marsh. Move from camp to camp, never staying in one place for more than a few days; hide in a cave or in the mountains.

You could also be a relcutant Shadowscale, killing others to make sure your life isn't taken by darker forces. Perhaps you feel guilty each time you kill someone and you go to a bar to drink heavily. (Be Creative)

{{NewLine}}
===Undercover Agent===
Undercover Agents focus on secrecy, making sure that nobody knows their profession.

Live as a normal person, until you have a job. Own a house, have normal clothes, carry items consistent with your cover story. Keep no evidence of your past assassinations. Never be caught wearing your assassination equipment. Wear different clothes when doing undercover work. Disguise yourself to infiltrate areas. For example, in a conjurer's lair wear conjurer's robes.

Infiltrate guilds, acting as a spy within the guild. For example, join the Thieves Guild and work to get close to the Gray Fox and discover his true identity. Don't reveal your actual skills when undercover. Don't do any more for your target guild than possible (e.g., don't steal any more than you are required to).

You could "become" the person you kill: after assassinating them you take their clothes and go about their daily schedule, sleeping in their house, and so on. When you think someone is close to figuring out who you are, you could skip town and find a new person to live as.

{{NewLine}}

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying/Fighter or Warrior

2009-11-20T04:15:07Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Renrijra Krin Member */

User talk:Ninja Hinder/My sandbox

2009-11-15T22:14:54Z

Ninja Hinder: /* New story */ Reply

== Story for Helen Cario ==

u asked me for a story so here it is :)

Helen Cario is an Imperial woman with alot to prove, her parents left for the land of Hammerfell when Helen was just 16 but she convinced them to leave her behind. Alone and afraid she decided to enlist in the honorable Fighter's Guild for shelter.

Despite the kindness of the Fighter's Guild matron Vilena Donton, Helen needed money, she was too proud to beg, but brave enough to try a contract. After passing her contract with flying colours, Vivlena Donton herself requested an audience with her. Vilena proposed to Helen that if she accompanies her son Viranus on his dangerous contract then Helen will be rewarded greatly. Helen couldn't refuse, she accompanied Viranus into a goblin filled mine and they searched for the lost recruits who hadn't come back, Helen quickly located them using both wits and agility and quickly dispatched their captors alongside Viranus. During their long journey home Viranus admitted he was very impressed with her amazing skills in combat.

They began to talk and it became clear to Helen that her feelings for Viranus were more than just comradeship. During their long journey home it began to rain violently. Helen and Viranus quickly took shelter in a nearby inn. They got to talking and accidentally Helen let out her feelings for Viranus. He eagerly admitted he had feelings for her too, they embraced each other, the rain ended as quickly as it had come so they departed the inn. When they arrived back at the Fighter's Guild they told Vilena that they were goin to be engaged and Vilena was thrilled. She promised them an early retirement but insisted they had to finish one last contract because the fighter's guild had a reputation of never defaulting on their contracts.

Viranus insisted that Helen didn't go on the last contract and she reluctantly agreed. Three days later Helen was sitting at her desk when Vilena burst up the stairs sobbing. She approached Helen and told her Viranus had died in combat during the last contract, a scout had come back and revealed the information the Vilena only seconds earlier. Helen burst into tears; she couldn't believe Viranus was actually dead. She stormed out of the Fighter's Guild hall and out of Anvil altogether. She ran into the nearest cove and fell to her knees sobbing when a bandit sneaked up on her and assaulted her, She slowly and calmly arose, turned around, unsheathed her sword then, in a fit of rage swung her sword at the bandit repeatedly until all that remained of the bandit was a unrecognisable bloody mess quickly being eaten by rats.

Helen had to clear her mind so she decided to back-pack across Cyrodiil and she did so for many years, sleeping in caves and eating off the land. She hadn't met any other being since the bandit incident; she was having a quick swim in Niben Bay when a strange door appeared. Being naturally courageous Helen instantly went to the small island the door appeared and began to explore. A voice boomed at her, daring her to enter, having nothing to lose Helen entered the mysterious void and little did she know at the time, she had just entered the fabled Shivering Isles! A place that, in the near future, she would become the Duchess of. Many years after her rise to power in the Shivering Isles, Helen felt she was ready to love again and decided to travel back to Cyrodiil and once again, rejoin the fighter's guild.

The once strong, majestic Vilena was now a frail, elderly woman, she instantly recognised Helen before she even had a chance to speak and despite being missing for sevaral years, Vilena bestowed her leadership of the Fighter's Guild.

Helen's life was very successful; she didn't credit luck, but her blade, her armor, and her wits.

[[User:Tabloes|Tabloes]]

== next story ==

I lke how your story is beginning. Once again, you've tied in into your others. Good job. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 16:34, 2 December 2008 (EST)

Tying stuff in means I have to use less ideas =p it entertains the writer and the reader! Oh, and besides, I think Hinder was an emotional masterpiece. Too bad about the next part of the story... `18:08, 2 December 2008 (EST)

== New story ==

I like your new story in the works. Keep up the good work. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 04:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh, what one? I have three stories in the works right now. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:14, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Oblivion:Roleplaying/Criminal

2009-11-15T22:13:35Z

Ninja Hinder: Undo revision 484892 by 92.236.224.3 (Talk) Blanking for no reason.

{{Roleplaying Header}}
{{TOCright}}

Live by your own "laws"! Do as you wish, with no regard for laws, rules or society's expectations.

==Variations==
===Bandit===
Become an outlaw and start robbing people. To be an outlaw you should have a bounty on you at '''all''' times.
[[Image:OB-Bandit.jpg|thumb|right|[[Oblivion:Bandit|Bandit]] at [[Oblivion:Fat Ramp Camp|Fat Ramp Camp]]]]

Find a bandit camp, kill the bandits and use it as your own camp. [[Oblivion:Atrene Camp|Atrene Camp]] is a good choice as it is deserted. A bandit needs to wear armor at all times - even while sleeping - to prepare for being discovered by an armed traveler. Wear Glass, Leather or Fur armor. You do not have to wear a full set of armour, for example you can wear a Glass Cuirass and have the rest all leather or fur.

*Hunt animals for food. Although they are found in very few locations in the game, sheep are the ideal animal for a bandit to hunt, as it is illegal. Perhaps try to poach some off farmers. You would probably aim to eat three meals a day.
*Befriend a [[Oblivion:Highwayman|Highwayman]]; You can pay him the gold he asks for and then kill Imperial Legionaries that pass by.
*Become friends with the [[Lore:Cammona Tong|Cammona Tong]] thugs at [[Oblivion:Walker Camp|Walker Camp]].
**Use the Command Humanoid effect to lead them on raids.
**Attack any travelers that you meet on the way, such as [[Oblivion:Alval Uvani|Alval Uvani]].
*Steal [[Oblivion:Horses|horses]].
*Attack people in remote locations such as inns, villages, Daedric shrines, and farms, which will usually raise your infamy.
**For example, complete the [[Oblivion:Zero Visibility|Zero Visibility]] quest, located in [[Oblivion:Aleswell|Aleswell]], and once everyone is visible again, kill them all. Once the quest is complete, they are no longer essential. This suggestion is assuming that you have no problem with attaining a bounty, and you shouldn't, as this village is located right along a road where [[Oblivion:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]] horsemen patrol.
**If killing off an entire village does not seem to fit your role as a bandit, there is an [[Oblivion:Shagol gro-Bumph|Orc harvesting vegetables]] in the middle of the village whom you can kill. There is also another NPC wandering around, an Argonian named [[Oblivion:Sakeepa|Sakeepa]]. He has a dog and uses a club, seemingly the village protector. If you would like, you can kill him as well.
*Another idea is to lay seige to towns by raiding them with some [[Oblivion:Bandit|bandit]] friends.
*Try killing farmers. They will not be missed, and you can take whatever you like from their houses.

{{NewLine}}
===Black Market Dealer===
[[Image:OB-npc-Shady Sam.jpg|thumb|right|[[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] deals many illegal tools and substances...]]
Being a Black Market Dealer involves selling illegal items and substances to clients. This act must be done in a secret spot so that no guards or citizens overhear or see the business being conducted. Wear black clothing and a [[Oblivion:Black Hood#Black Hood|Black Hood]] to remain stealthy and unidentifiable. Collect illegal items like [[Oblivion:Skooma|Skooma]], poisons, stolen items and lockpicks. Other great drugs to sell (requires the Shivering Isles Expansion Pack or GOTY Edition Game.) are [[Shivering:Greenmote|Greenmote]] and [[Shivering:Felldew|Felldew]]. [[Oblivion:Shady Sam|Shady Sam]] could be one of your business partners.

{{NewLine}}

===Desert Raider===
The Redguard race works well for Desert Raiders. Create a Custom Class 'Deserter', and pick Strength and Endurance for your attributes - you'll need to be strong to survive in the desert - and some skills like Athletics, Blade, Block, Light Armor, Sneak, Marksman, and Armorer.

Get some clothing fit for a desert, something tan like tan robes and a hood. Anything except fur armor - it's already hot in deserts. Get a scimitar (Elven shortsword would do, although you could use a mod to get one), a bow and some arrows.

Don't just come in and steal stuff! First, make sure to kill anyone inside a building - you don't want anyone to tell about you, just fancy rumors and fear. If possible, sneak-kill the first person, if there are more, go get them old-fashioned way! Then, take anything of value, and throw any other stuff without value around, you would leave a huge mess when browsing through everything. Don't sell; you want to hoard your loot and show it off to other bandits.

Hang out around Anvil, as the area is closest to a desert. Find a decent place for your character to live, and go kill any unsuspecting travelers, taking their stuff as loot.

Hunt Mountain Lions for their pelts and deer for food.

Pretend to get caught and be punished to death, but break out violently so the city has something to talk about. For example, you snatched the key from a guard - don't let them miss your escape. Kill anyone you see.

Acquire either a tan horse or a black horse, such as Shadowmere. Storm a village or town with it, and pillage it with your new desert raider followers.

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===Exile===
Exiles are those banished from a place due to immoral actions. Go to each city and do something that would make them send you into exile, never to come back. You might want to get a bounty on your head, that way you'll be arrested for entering the city again.

Kill anyone you see, be it civilian, bandit, or soldier. Maybe even the Countess of Leyawiin since she occasionally travels. Take everything they have. Be sure to drag your victims bodies off the road, otherwise people might realize it's you and take another route.

Infiltrate cities and murder those who have wronged you, like guards or stewards. After taking your revenge, return to the wilderness. Let the victims mourn their losses... then plan your next strike.

If your character is seeking redemption, complete a dangerous quest that you have either made up yourself, or already exists in-game. This can be done for each of the cities to earn back your respect.

If your character was a more dark, evil person you can lock them in the secret door in the Battlehorn Castle Training Room. (The one where you find Lord Kain and a Lich.) To do this you need the official mod and all you have to do is use the candle to open the door, then use the candle again and quickly run in the doorway. It will close behind you and you will be permanently locked in a darkened area, with no chance of escape.

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===Gang Leader===
Reverse-pickpocket the same [[Oblivion:Glitches#Permanent Bound Items|permanent bound items]] onto all of your followers. Wear the same clothes/armor as your gang members, or even use different hoods or hats to symbolize ranks in the gang, or just to be able to tell who is who within the gang.

Bring members into your house (houses with basements are most effective, like Anvil, Skingrad etc...) and plan your deeds, maybe stand behind the alter and plan, while having members in front of it (wait command needed here), like they're listening! Be creative!

;Bandit gang Leader

Get as many followers as you can, Jemane brothers, DB murderer, MA, Mazoga the Orc, and start your own gang. You can have a poor gang with the characters own clothing, or pickpocket daedric bound armor using the Bound Armor Glitch, therefore having a Daedric Gang!
Have a main camp and ambush any Imperial guards, travelers, etc. Sometimes a Countess or a Black Horse Courier messanger may come by. Kill her and her guards and loot them and stash your items by dropping them by your camp. Make sure the dispostion of your members are as high as possible or else they may turn on each other or even you!
Major Heal Other is a essential scroll to have, and you can duplicate it with the Duplication Glitch, thus keeping your gang alive.
For your camp you can find the stone bricks in the Anvil or Imperial City Warehouses and build a wall around your camp!
;Evil gang leader

Be a godfather, and act as if you have your own family; perhaps another family has angered you, and you start a war against them. Have your infamy as high as possible.

Pretend to confront other gangs with your gang (e.g Blackwater Brigand, Bandits in caves, anyone who fights in groups). Have your gang fight the other gang while you take on the "leader". Having the Staff of Worms to resurrect the gang members you have been fighting could be used to pretend that the other gang leader's men have turned on him/her because of how powerful you are. Do this regularly, but not daily.

Go around town and try to find someone between houses or in an alley and beat them up with your gang. Steal your gangs' weapons and give them back when you're done. Act as if this person didn't pay your protection money. Don't kill him/her and get arrested. Do your time and pretend the days you spend in jail are years. When you get out, find the person and murder him/her. Drag the body behind a house or by a beggar's bed and put a dagger on the bed, or drop the body in a lake.

You can either be a two-bit thug and carry nothing but some rusty armor and a club, or go Michael Corleone and use your earnings to buy top-notch weapons and armor. As you become the king in one city, take it to another, "recruiting" a DB murderer or a MG apprentice to help you.

If you're really feeling a little gangster, go with nothing but prison clothes and a simple club and mug/pickpocket people on the streets, then make a run for it. Then come back in the city during night and stash your loot in the shack in the Imperial City Waterfront. Better yet, have a hideout!

Beat people up and go to jail. While you're there try to escape. If you succeed, kill the owner of a house and use it as a hideout. Start a skooma trade in your hideout and sell it regularly to some NPCs. After you get enough money, buy a larger house and use companions as guards.

;Party of Heroes

Maybe you're not a gangster or a god father or a thug; maybe you're a good guy.

You need a headquarters. The White Stallion lodge might work but if you're not planing to have Mazoga in your team, Rosethorn Hall also works. A camp site seems ideal if the enemies don't respawn there, or a tavern can also be a good idea (The Inn of Ill Omen has an archery target for training). The Fighter Stronghold Plug-in would also serve as an amazing base if your party are rich or really deserve a castle.

Now go and do a quest with your party or just explore the world with them. Role play them with personalities like the DB being sadistic, the MG being snooty and the KotN being over-zealous. Maybe the KotN and DB don't get along and refuse to work together and one leaves the team or temporarily gets replaced while the other gets some R&R at the base. Your adventures might be endless.

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===Gray Fox===
[[Image:WantedPoster.jpg|right|thumb|150px|Become the most wanted thief in Cyrodiil]]
After the end of the [[Oblivion:Thieves Guild|Thieves Guild]] quests, you become the Gray Fox which is a great roleplaying opportunity. Wear full leather armor and if you can, enchant it with good enchantments for a thief ([[Oblivion:Fortify Skill|Fortify Sneak]], [[Oblivion:Chameleon|Chameleon]] etc). Live in the Guildmaster's Quarters and show off the best stuff you've stolen there.

'''Never''' take the [[Oblivion:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]] off around anybody that isn't in the thieves guild. Since the curse has been lifted, you can live another life besides the Gray Fox which means that you can try to keep up two identities. If caught by guards wearing the Cowl try to escape or maybe even fight them to the death.

Steal from only the most challenging places (Castles, Nobles' Houses). '''Never''' steal anything without wearing the Cowl. Don't use the cheating method of stealing something in clear view then taking the cowl off.

Complete [[Oblivion:Nocturnal|Nocturnal's]] quest to receive the [[Oblivion:Skeleton Key|Skeleton Key]] so you possess both her [[Oblivion:Artifacts|artifacts]].

*{{pc22}} PC users can use the {{tesnexus|2271|Armor of the Gray Fox}} mod to really get into the feel of the Gray Fox.

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===Guerrilla Rebel===
Guerrilla tactics are based on espionage, deception, ambush, and sabotage. Also, guerrilla warfare is the extreme warfare and combat when a smaller group of combatants use mobile tactics (ambushes, raids, etc.) to combat a larger, less mobile formal army. The guerrilla army uses ambush (draw enemy forces to terrain unsuited to them) and mobility (advantage and '''surprise''') in attacking '''vulnerable targets''' in enemy territory. Perhaps you used to be an Imperial Legion General framed for something you didn't do and you are out for revenge.

This roleplay is primarily stealth and precise timing. You can fight normally but you are trying to make a shadowy figure that is sabotaging the empire from within. It is highly recommended you begin this roleplay after completing most of the game, optionally leaving some uncompleted quests for followers. If you start later in the game, there will be fewer essentials, and your risk of failing quests will be reduced.

The [[Oblivion:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]] is practically a '''must''' for this roleplay, but getting this item requires sacrificing [[Oblivion:Amusei|Amusei]] as a follower. The “alter ego” provided by the cowl allows you to quickly infiltrate and take out the key elements that keep the Imperial Empire together among many needed requirements. It's also nice to be able to show yourself in public without the guards chasing you.

Many [[Oblivion:Spells|Spells]] are essential for this roleplay, many of them being 'control'-type spells:
*[[Oblivion:Command Humanoid|Command Humanoid]]: you will be able to command a humanoid to do your bidding, a very good tool for temporary allies and to capture hostages for protection and to 'interrogate' influential figures
*[[Oblivion:Frenzy|Frenzy]]: helps you with diversion so you can focus on your operation at hand while the guards and citizens are busy trying to kill each other. Provides good distractions for obstacles such as guards
*[[Oblivion:Summon|Summon]]: very useful for distractions and an extra temporary subordinate, beware though... They are more aggressive than your humanoid comrades
*[[Oblivion:Demoralize|Demoralize]]: forces your enemies to run for the hills and thus leaves you to work quietly (or loudly) with your sabotaging
*[[Oblivion:Chameleon|Chameleon]]: a very good spell, or better yet get 100% chameleon on your armor and then you can easily infiltrate the empire
*[[Oblivion:Invisibility|Invisibility]]: same as chameleon but expires once you activate something, good replacement for 100% chameleon that helps balance gameplay for extremists
*[[Oblivion:Night Eye|Night Eye]]: May help you see in the dark, you might want to make sure who you're assassinating in the dark.
* [[Oblivion:Water Walking|Water Walking]]: Will help you if you would like to sneak around on water, since you are more noticeable when swimming rather than sneaking.
*[[Oblivion:Detect Life|Detect Life]]: Helps you greatly by telling you where the guard patrols are allowing you to avoid them easier.

Some recommended bases and fitting subordinates:

* [[Oblivion:Smuggler's Cave|Smuggler's Cave]] south of [[Oblivion:Anvil|Anvil]] (practically under), very good place to begin your guerrilla operations with suppliers for weapons, armor and enchanted items. You also get three 'pirates' to go out and 'scout' the county and to fund your movement. You have a base that is entirely hidden and the safe passage into the bowels of the castle Anvil unvaluble if your crew runs low on cash, sneak into the countess' room and grab some of the finest objects in Cyrodill to sell off.
**Ideal Subordinates for Dunbarrow Cove- Dark Brotherhood murderer, Amusei.

* [[Oblivion:Battlehorn Castle_(place)|Battlehorn Castle]], south-west of [[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]], is a training base dream providing everything needed to train and maintain Guerrilla troops.
**Ideal Subordinates for Battlehorn Castle- [[Oblivion:Knight of the Nine|Knight of the Nine]], [[Oblivion:Guilbert Jemane|Jemane]] [[Oblivion:Reynald Jemane|Brothers]], [[Oblivion:Mazoga the Orc (person)|Mazoga the Orc]], Battlehorn Castle Man-at-Arms, [[Oblivion:Jauffre|Jauffre]], [[Oblivion:Viranus Donton|Viranus Donton]].

* [[Oblivion:Cloud Ruler Temple|Cloud Ruler Temple]] is north of [[Oblivion:Bruma|Bruma]], sacrificing [[Oblivion:Martin Septim|Martin]] and Jauffre as followers with an exchange of another well defended fortress that’s even better than the Battlehorn Castle and comes with its own complimentary armor.
**Ideal Subordinates for Cloud Ruler Temple- Knight of the Nine, Jemane Brothers, Mazoga the Orc, Battlehorn Man-at-Arms, Viranus Donton.

* [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary|Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary]] in [[Oblivion:Cheydinhal|Cheydinhal]], a good place for planning out operations since you have the help of your fellow Dark Brotherhood murderers
**Ideal Subordinates for the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary- DB murderer, Amusei.

* [[Oblivion:Frostcrag Spire (place)|Frostcrag Spire]] east of Bruma also helps you with your operations against the empire, a large tower with a large storage room, many alchemical ingredients and an interesting ring, coming with a complimentary atronach familiar which adds to your gang of guerrillas and enchanting/spellmaking altars. Posting a DB on the teleport balcony to look out for threats. If you become under siege retreat to the Vault, it's the perfect fail safe.
**Ideal Subordinates for Frostcrag Spire- Brother Martin, Mages Guild Apprentice, [[Oblivion:Erthor|Erthor]], Atronach Familiar.

* The very city of [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]] can be a hideout as long as you haven't been identified as the guerrilla mastermind, since you have the night mother's statue to guide you with your plans, a skooma den where you can hideout as well, along with many Thieves Guild operatives where they will be able to get you out of any minor trouble easily. Also the count isn't essential; maybe his guards have been cracking down hard on your operations - that has to stop.
**Ideal Subordinates for Bravil- Amusei, DB murderer, Jemane Brothers, Erthor

* [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow (place)|Deepscorn Hollow]] southeast of [[Oblivion:Leyawiin|Leyawiin]] may count as a base of operations, however this is pretty much for all those sinister characters around, it has many good features with your own bed and a subordinate who goes out and assassinates someone for some loot.
**Ideal Subordinates for Deepscorn Hollow- DB murderer, Amusei, Atronach Familiar (fire)
* The [[Oblivion:Fighters Guild|Fighters Guild]] in [[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] may be used as a base since you have protection from your fighters and loot/cash coming in every month if you are the head of the fighters guild.
**Ideal Subordinates for FG in Chorrol- Battlehorn Man-at-Arms, Jemane Brothers, Atronach Familiar, Erthor, Jauffre, Knight of the Nine, Mazoga the Orc, Viranus Donton

* The [[Oblivion:Imperial|Imperial]] [[Oblivion:Waterfront District|Waterfront District]] is also recommended since it is the [[Oblivion:Gray Fox|Gray Fox]]'s base of operations and has many thieves guild members who will help you out of any problems, bring some coin to 'tip' off the beggars for info, via bribe and ask for rumors, pretend they give you info related to whatever youre doing.
**Ideal Subordinates for Imperial Waterfront- Amusei, Mages Apprentice

* Also, the sewers underneath the Imperial city make a great base. You can take out their forces right under their noses. Sneak into shops to get supplies or break into important people’s houses and take them out. There are straw mats placed in certain parts of the sewers so you can level up if need be. The sewers themselves can also serve as a convenient escape route.
**Ideal Subordinates for Sewers- Amusei, Erthor, DB murderer

Gather up followers, set up a base and plan out the elimination of the key elements and influential figures of the Cyrodilic Empire.

Begin your operations in a city near your base. "Interrogate" the countess and begin spreading out to other cities, making more bases and getting more subordinates. Your final goal should be a base in the Imperial City.

Plan out assaults on enemies and hit the empire where it hurts. Instead of creating a large army and wiping out the cities completely and exiling every essential to dive rock, do something more subtle and take out the main elements of the empire. Your tiny little band of rebels does not have the manpower launch an all out assault on the cities! Use your small numbers and your incognito status against the empire. To begin your vendetta towards the Imperial Empire, launch small unexpected assassinations/assaults on small-time noblemen and minor guards. Escalate your attacks during every determined time interval. Once your plans are successful, fall back and gather supplies and more equipment to prepare for your next strike. Try to keep the deaths to a minimum, as you will need the support of the commoners for future guerrilla tactics.

You are a ''criminal mastermind''. Masterminds do ''not'' get caught, but if you do, you should escape from the jail and , stealing all their armor, then sneak back in later and kill them with your [[Oblivion:followers|followers]].

Do not dress your followers in exotic and rich equipment because guerrillas are usually poor. Get a whole lot of mage's hoods, enchant them with shield of fortify health enchantments and reverse-pickpocket them to all the members off your 'squad'. Duplicate many enchanted permanent bound armor and weapons and reverse pickpocket the armor onto your followers. Make the armor fit the character of your subordinate, like equipping your Dark Brotherhood archer with 100% chameleon, fortify strength armor for Jauffre and 100% immunity to magic for your Mages Guild Scholar. Don't give the Jemane brothers 100% immunity to magic, it would be pointless; instead give them a good set of armor with shield enchantments. Keep your followers’ behavior in battle in mind.

Don't simply focus on the cities! Expand your guerrilla tactics to the county. Take out the Imperial Guards patrolling the roads. Capture passers-by via command humanoid and interrogate them! Perhaps they are undercover soldiers. Befriend highwaymen by paying them 100 gold (you can pickpocket it back if you want) and join his attacks on the patrols. Maybe your band of guerrillas is moving the base from the Thieves Den to Battlehorn. Assault bandit camps and spend the night there or travel through the night until you find an inn you can sleep in. If you spend the night at the inn, kill the residents since they found out that you were the guerrillas. Kill the imperial foresters if you like; they are in the dark on the underground guerrilla operations in the wild.

You could also live off the land once in a while, maybe for a month since the cities are too hot for you, and the guards are searching for your guerrilla army.

Once you're ready to move up to the next stage of your rebellion, capture the Captain of the Guard via command humanoid and take him to your base and interrogate him. Perhaps he tells your guerrillas about some unexpected element of the Imperial Empire. Maybe he hints a small clue about a great treasure that all the city guard captains have hidden and that you need to capture them all to receive the secret to bring down the empire. You could capture the Counts and Countesses instead of Guard Captains; avoid Skingrad’s, Leyawiin’s and Anvil's Counts and Countesses, however, as they are relevant to some quests.

Be ruthless, shoot some guard with an arrow and run off. Steal the legion's armor and sell it or use it to "infiltrate" their base. Take two companions and once it gets dark, infiltrate the city's barracks and take them out quickly and quietly (sneak attack while they are sleeping of course). Once the guards are dead, loot the barracks, and since you have less resistance against your guerrillas, you can practically do anything you want without any hassle for a couple days, or at least until the guards respawn.

Perhaps the city watch has blockaded the main entrance to [[Oblivion:Chancellor Ocato|Chancellor Ocato]], and you are forced to take the old way with your guerrillas after you have beaten the [[Oblivion:Thieves Guild|Thieves Guild]]; you can hit the city watch where it hurts and capture Ocato via command humanoid. Since you have the most influential leader of all Cyrodiil, the entire country is after your head, so quickly interrogate him and leave him where the guard can find him, maybe the Elven Gardens District, or even all the way back to the chamber in the white gold tower.

Maybe your comrade got captured and is being held in prison. Since (s)he is a well known guerrilla, (s)he will be heavily guarded and you must devise a plan to sneak in and out with minimal casualties on both sides. Do not simply walk in and out rescuing your comrade in front of the guards with your cowl off, sneak in and out without being seen.

Alternatively, you could go under siege! Maybe you made a mistake in your plans to take over Chorrol and there are more guards than you expected and they begin attacking you and your comrades. Retreat back to Battlehorn and wait for the Chorrol attack to come (attack all the guards in the city and run back to Battlehorn) and perhaps you could throw in Daedra from nearby gates and bandits from camps.

You can also simply try to take out as many guards as possible anyway you can. Stock their pantries with poison apples, then watch them die. Steal horses from Imperial Legion soldiers and stash them somewhere. Hit them with poisons to make them weak then hack them to pieces.

Remember: “Hit the empire where it hurts” is your motto

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===Horse Thief===
[[Image:OBCreature-horse.jpg|thumb|right|Horses]]
[[Oblivion:Orc|Orcs]] eat horses don't they? Well, at least [[Oblivion:Snak gra-Bura|Snak gra-Bura]] at the Chestnut Stables does. She might need a new supply...

Get a self made quest from her. Steal a horse, place it a bit away from Chestnut Stables and kill it. Bring it to Snak and receive your payment through stealing or console. The horse armor could also be a reward.

Go to each horse stable and steal each horse and ride it to an enclosed fence with a closing gate. Keep doing this until you have just about every horse in the game in that fence. Don't forget about Imperial guards on patrol on the outskirts of the Imperial city. They will try to arrest you!

Don't Fast Travel unless you want to keep one horse to use instead of caging it with the others.

Take over a stable (kill the owner); to be the only place in Cyrodill that sells black horses steal them all and put them in the fenced area. Don't forget about the four couriers.

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===Pickpocket===
This is a slight variation on the standard thief in the way that you focus solely on pickpocketing, mainly rich looking people. Your breaking and entering skills are very poor so you go straight for people's pockets.

Join the Thieves Guild to acquire the fences, even though you will mainly be stealing gold directly, you may still need to sell goods. Begin with the Imperial City and spend a long time there before you venture out into other towns. As a pickpocket you'll only spend time in towns; you are not a fighter nor an adventurer. The only weapon you'll have will be a small iron dagger.

Wander each district in the IC. Day after day stalk people and wait for the right moment to pinch gold from them; when they walk down an alley, or if they sit down. Look at making at least 100 gold a day, enough to get you by. When you're not on the job, gamble at the arena or spend time at Inns or the waterfront.

After you've scoured the IC for several weeks and the guards are getting suspicious that you are the notorious pickpocket everyone is talking about, it is the time to pack your supplies and leave town. Read the guides to each town and decide which one to head to.

Equip some light armor and buy a small iron shortsword and pack some food. Travel to another town (no fast travel). You are not familiar with the wilderness so stick to the paths. If you stray from paths imagine you'll get lost. Try to find your way to another town without looking at your map.

When you arrive at a new town, just casually walk around and get your bearings, check out inns, observe the rich looking folk, learn the layout of the city, alleys, gardens, walls etc. Know where your hideout will be. Spend a while in the new town picking pockets.

Don't always reload if you get caught pickpocketing - sometimes you will be caught. If you do get arrested, leaving town would be a good idea once you get out of prison.

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===Pirate===
A very easy type of role-play; choose combat out of the three focuses (Stealth, Combat, Magic). Create a custom class "Pirate" with Blade, Block, Hand-to-hand, Mercantile, Light Armor, Security, Heavy Armor as starting Apprentice level skills. Dress in pirate-style clothing, with no shoes, simple clothes, helmets perhaps, lots of stolen jewelry. Use a [[Oblivion:Cutlass|cutlass]] as a weapon (a perfect choice for a cutlass would be [[Oblivion:Redwave|Redwave]] because it is not properly leveled), possibly alongside a silver shortsword or an akaviri katana. For a pirate lord dress in black and burgandy velvet outfit with buckled shoes and weild a cutlass or silver longsword, don rings and necklaces, maybe enchanted. For the poorer cutthroat wear basic pirate clothes with a iron short and an array of knives. Keep mead and precious jewels that you just can't leave on an island on you along with your essential underwater scroll. Have a goal, maybe you dive the coasts of Anvil on your shore leave to find the fin gleam helm, if you finnaly do retrieve it from those murky depths gift it to your captain and earn his favor. Also to keep your crew under the local guard captain's radar, when you make shore do a quest and help out the locals. Then if your crew does get found out, you won't be a suspect because of your good deeds, then you can make for the treasures of your jailed crew and barter your own ship!

[[Image:Marie.jpg|right|thumb|The Marie Elena, a pirate ship in the Waterfront District of the Imperial City.]]

Join the Thieves Guild first - use Armand Christophe, just a short run away from the ship, to pay off your bounties. You will need the Waterfront District's support as well, and they are very powerful there. The Jemane brothers can be useful followers as they are essential and have decent leveled weapons; consider outfitting them zero weight pirate-esque clothing. Erethor can also be a hostage from the Mages Guild.

Take over the pirate ship in the Waterfront and live in there, as it was your own. (Get on the ship, the other pirates will attack, let the guards come after them, yield to the Redguard and he will be neutral. Then, attack the imperial watch along with your new comrade and dispose of the other scoundrals and dump their bodies in the water along with their rusted swords as a warning to those who may oppose you!) Set up your stashes of loot inside the ship, where you will live essentially, or put it in the treasure chest from [[Oblivion:The Forlorn Watchman (quest)|The Forlorn Watchman]] quest - you get a realistic map you can use to re find your treasure.

Become the pirate lord of Dunbarrow. Keep your base stocked with food, weapons, repair hammers and loot! Maintain the coffers by reguarly purchasing your crews wares. Maybe the cove becomes under siege and you need to defend it for months, keep the halls stocked. Gather followers to bolster the crew and gather on the deck and have a knee's up with ale, mead and beer. Maybe use a DB murderer as a prisoner you've captured, keep him/her in the cove's cell. Also Erethor works as a mage you are holding ransom, if the guild don't pay up trash the Anvil guild at night with your allies (Jermaine brothers look excellent when kitted out with zero weight poor clothes, also they're essential) To keep your crews status and still aviod the attention of the guards fashion a calling card and make sure the criminal underworld know of it, then raid bandit camps, outposts, pick off sailers, be the most blood thirsty gang in all of Tamriel!

Befriend all the people in the Waterfront shacks, use them as allies against the Empire. Live inside the Waterfront District. See the Imperial Trading Company Warehouse right across from your ship? Fire charm spells at the pirates until you are able to persuade them when you talk to them. Persuade them all as high as you can get them. Then, attack it! If all goes well, the other pirates will join in your raid.

Alternatively, you could buy the [[Oblivion:Thieves Den|Thieves Den]]. This gives you free money, access to a fence without having to join the Thieves Guild, and a decent place to hide your loot.

[[Image:OB-npc-Jak Silver.jpg|thumb|right|Ahoy!]]

Find a few crates in the middle of nowhere deep inland that will become your new hidden stash - hide your loot somewhere you think no one will ever find it. Buy tons of rum and get drunk on it.

When playing as a Pirate, you should steal in a rather particular fashion. Unlike most thieves, you don't sneak around at night and take things from people. No, pirates do it differently. Burst off of your ship (leap off for effect) and go charging into the Temple District like you just landed there. Pick the nearest house (do this in bright day) and rush into it with your sword outstretched. Do not sneak. If you see anyone in there, cut them down immediately. Loot stuff. Be specific about what you loot - Pirates do not steal enchanted staffs, bows, books, and potions. They do steal high-end clothes, swords, jewelry always, food and drink, and most importantly gold. Loot all those things and then charge back towards your ship in the Waterfront District. Guards should be after you by now. Kill them sometimes. Loot their bodies afterward. When you finally reach your ship, you may drop off your loot inside the ships holds. Keep your pirate buddies alive - when guards come and enter the ship after you, they will attack the guard, which is a nice touch. Then, fast travel ("sail") your ship into the east side of Leyawiin (the side next to the ocean) or the port side (west?) of Anvil and carry out the same there. Oh, make sure to pay off your bounty to Armand first! Keep doing this, and eventually your fighting skills will be high enough that the guards will be little distraction.

Have an affinity with the water, spend hours diving and mapping the shores and escape routes out of town. Maybe go the visit a prisoner to secretly check the security and guard partols for use if you ever get caught. Wear a diguise, steal high end clothes and don them to avoid detection whilst planning escapes in every city you may visit.

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===Prisoner===
[[Image:OB-Valen Dreth.jpg|thumb|right|Everybody's Favorite Prisoner Valen Dreth]]
This is easy to start and can be fun as long as you can think of something to do. Break into a cell in the [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]] or perhaps one of the county prisons if that is too hard (a trick to get in is to ask him to let you see the prisoners, ask again, and he will go back to his desk, leaving you to break into the cell).

Put some typical prison food in your cell. Eat it a few times a day. Acquire some cups and plates to set your table. Get the basic prisoner uniform: sack cloth pants, shirt, and sandals. Perhaps some wrist irons. Since there are many empty cells in the Imperial Prison, get some followers to be your inmates. The DB murderers work the best. If you are in [[Oblivion:Bruma|Bruma]] begin the [[Oblivion:Two Sides of the Coin|Two Sides of the Coin]] quest, and treat [[Oblivion:Jorundr|Jorundr]] as your cell-mate.

Bang on the cell doors with your fists. Throw cups and forks at passing guards. Take time eating your meals - they are the high point of your day. Place food carefully on your plate and pick up as you eat it. Add the forks to your inventory before eating. Sit down and eat the food slowly. If you manage to find a book, steal it and spend time reading the whole thing front to back. Sit down in your little chair while you read. Spend hours (game time) searching for a secret path out of your cell, similar to the one you used when the game began.

Make friends with another inmate. Work together with them to get lockpicks and food and other prison necessities. Give each other things and break out together - unlock the door and they will follow you out. Alternatively, smuggle in weapons and plan efforts to shank your fellow inmates. Then, break in there and sneak-kill inmates you dislike. Use an iron dagger, preferably with a stolen flag, and use the enchantment altars to rename it "Shank".

Smuggle things in. Sneak out (don't let anyone see you and try to cover your tracks) and acquire [[Oblivion:skooma|skooma]], tobacco, lockpicks, and daggers for yourself, or trade it with your fellow inmates. Hide your contraband somewhere where it is hard to notice in the cell and don't let the guards see you with it.

Break out with a large scale rebellion. Free the other prisoners and sneak out at night, but not before killing the guards. Alternatively, sneak out by yourself during the dead of night using a complicated predetermined route. Try to not be seen by anybody. Sneak out, steal new clothes nearby, and keep running until you reach a safe place out in the wilderness. Make up and utilize a plan to steal gold to start out.

You could also get out in broad daylight, by sneaking out very carefully through the front door, dressed in full guard uniform. Steal it somehow beforehand, and hide it in your cell where guards do not see it. Have fun making up the most complicated escape plans you can - though it isn't necessary it sure is fun. If you are jailed in Skingrad, you can use secret prison exit in Skingrad (featured in [[Oblivion:Lost_Histories|Lost Histories quest]]) for your escape.

*{{pc22}}"Actors in Charge" is a great mod for this because it comes with all the different emotions and actions that you could possibly use in prison.

{{NewLine}}
===Serial Killer===
Make yourself a Cyrodilic slasher. Find a target and follow him/her around to see who he/she works with, if he/she has a family etc. Break into his/her house and leave a mark near him/her it can be a knife or a plant or anything you like. Then kill a friend/family member etc. and leave the same mark.

Always leave a clue as to who the killer is, such as a silver arrow, or a feather (quill), or to be really sadistic, leave weapons, or clues ''inside'' the victim's body. Also, drag their bodies into broad daylight, just to let the guards know you're smarter than they are!

Make a motive to kill. What kind of Slasher doesn't have a motive? Create a cool backstory for your killer (i.e. went crazy and killed a family member at a young age, then got locked up, but escaped from prison years later to go on a killing rampage, Michael Myers-style) Pretend that a family wronged you in the past, so you decided to kill off every single one of them. Maybe you kill the mother of a family because she was having an affair with your dad, Scream ring any bells? Of course you must stay with the body until he/she sees it and then leave (don't forget to wear black clothes...) Keep terrorizing your victim!

Make sure you wear a hood or something to conceal your identity, such as the Masque of Clavicus Vile or the Gray Cowl. Have trademark clothes, weapon, and headgear. Every slasher has those! Knife gloves, red and green striped sweater, and fedora for Freddy, Shatner mask, blue jumpsuit and knife for Michael... what's YOUR killer going to have?

For a real challenge, try to eliminate every killable character in Cyrodiil. One time you could have accidentally left too much evidence; pack up and prepare to live in your hideout for a few days. The Skooma Den in Bravil is great for this. You can spare or kill the addicts. It's your choice, but remember, they are outcasts just like you.

Maybe you're a paranoid killer and one time you visit the place you killed your first victim and its swarming with guards, then you turn to magic to leave no trace. Buy scrolls from the Warlocks luck or join the Mages guild and sneak out at night to dispose of your targets.

==== Plague(Mass Murderer)====
(A subsection of Serial Killer)
First you need to get 5 Grand Soul gems filled with Grand souls. Enchant 5 pieces of your chosen armor with a Chameleon spell effect which will give 100% Chameleon(each grand soul gives 20%) making you completely invisible and undetected. You will need to find a spell effect Drain Health and make a spell with the following effects: Drain Health 60 points for 3 seconds,(Need Journeymen+).

Now find some willing participants , A.K.A. unaware citizens, put on your armor, and cast the spell.
People will drop dead seemingly of no cause and you won't be caught. You will be a plague across Cyrodiil killing to your black heart's content.

{{NewLine}}

===Thief===
[[Image:OB-npc-Amusei.jpg|thumb|right|Amusei is a personal messenger for the Gray Fox. Here he is in the Waterfront District]]
You don't have to fence the bare minimum to get quests for the [[Oblivion:Thieves Guild|Thieves Guild]]. If you have time, are waiting between quests, or are simply done with everything, break into a few houses. Sneak around the levels and loot everything that might be of value!

Doing this, you can find the diary of the person who hired the Dark Brotherhood to kill [[Oblivion:Rufio|Rufio]] and the remains of the ceremony to summon a speaker of the Dark Brotherhood. Many houses also have Mythic Dawn Commentary books or other proof of worshiping Dagon indicating the owner is one of the [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Agents|Mythic Dawn]]. If you're a collector of say, rare books or gems for example, take those too. Although most houses don't have much gold or any rare Daedric/Akaviri artifacts, it's a fairly interesting pastime. Eventually, you may find that wherever you are, there's always a part of you thinking "hmm, anything of value here?"

You can make your own thief jobs by "getting a job" from someone who wants, for example, the "rare" silverware some rich guy has. You could pretend that you can't pick a certain difficulty of lock until your Security skill was high enough, or get a certain job until you prove you can sneak behind a patrolling guard for an hour.

Use the shack in the [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]] or the basement of another buyable house to store the loot you're later (or not) going to sell. Also, you can do the Siren's Deception quest, and keep all the items that are supposedly owned by other people (ex: Henrich's Shirt) and place them around your house, so it seems like you've stolen them from the people.

Try discovering fun new ways to thieve: A fun one is the market sewers in the Imperial City. Go in the grate, enter the building through the sewer take some stuff then run back down the sewers!

Don't start out as a Master Thief. Maybe one day you steal some food because you are starving. Then you find out you love or are good at stealing, and you start pilfering more expensive items, from silverware to jewels to finely-crafted armor. Just be sure not to get caught in your seedy house with silver cutlery or jewels stashing in boxes, otherwise the guards may become suspicious.

You can be a Shadow Thief. To be a “shadow” thief, only steal things you need to survive – clothes, food, small items to sell for money to buy food, etc. – and pester others by moving around their things while they’re not looking. Have normal clothes for the daytime and dark robes for the night, the only time your shadow character reveals itself. Go into people’s homes and move their things into the streets undetected.

To be a “phantom” thief, complete the Thieves Guild quests and obtain the cowl worn by the Gray Fox. Level up your illusion to 50 to be able to cast the lowest level chameleon spells. Obtain several soul gems. Enchant a cuirass, gauntlets, greaves, and 2 rings with 20% chameleon. The result is 100% chameleon, rendering you pretty much invisible to everything and everyone, even when you stand right in their face. If you have the Boots of Springheel Jack, it is a nice addition if you plan on using the invisibility to your thieving pleasure.

'''Robin Hood'''
Be an honest thief! steal from rich people and bribe beggars to give it to them. Have a ragtag team of followers and do raids on expensive areas. Live in a wilderness camp in a forest outside the town of your choosing. Pretend that the count is evil and is taking taxes from the poor. Break into the castle and steal anything of value. What if the count has captured one of your men and you have to take him back? Ideal race would be Wood elf. Use a bow as a weapon and snipe out unsuspecting guards.

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying/Lifestyles

2009-11-13T23:17:11Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Acrobat */ Reply

== Acrobat ==

Shouldn't Acrobat be moved to the Criminals section? It's a criminal roleplay and it seems specific enough to me. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 07:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

:Not really. Acrobats need not necessarily be criminals. Crazy building climbers can be included as well. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 15:32, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

"You are a thief -- acrobatics is a way to enjoy the thrill of your escape and to find your escape in the first place. Look for houses and people you think you wouldn't mind stealing from, and watch them from a bit, preferably from a safe distance. Find a good time to steal from your mark, and go for it. For a real challenge, get caught on purpose to test out the escape route you had."
[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:46, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:What's your point? --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 16:16, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Never mind it. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Roleplaying/Lifestyles

2009-11-12T23:46:47Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Acrobat */ Reply

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox

2009-11-12T23:45:23Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Your sandbox. */ reply

== Adding links ==

Hi. I just added a link to Baeralorn to show you how to add links. Hit the edit button on your sandbox page to see how I did that. If it isn't entirely clear yet, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. [[User:Wolok gro-Barok|Wolok gro-Barok]] 19:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

== Your sandbox. ==

It's nice and fun, even though it's small at this point. I wouldn't mind seeing all of the denizens of Shivering Isles subjected to the crazy meter. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 20:58, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 22:44, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

It's funny how ahjazda thinks the world is going to end soon and without your help, it really is. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:55, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

:Haha yea i didn't think of that! If you happen to want to add a person, you are free to do so, by the way (I just add a 210px picture of them and a description.).--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 23:16, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I think that the Prince of order should have a bit of a crazy rating. After all, who massacres a whole realm just for the sake of order? [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 23:45, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Oblivion nerd

2009-11-12T03:52:11Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Reply to "Back" */ I forgot to add my signature. Sorry, it won't happen again.

== Hi! ==

Hello, Oblivion nerd, and welcome to UESPWiki! I hope you enjoy using the site and find the information on it useful. If you decide you want to help improve any of our pages, we're always welcoming to new editors so feel free. You might want to look at our [[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]] page for some tips on how to begin, then play in our [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|Sandbox]] for a while to practice. If you need any help or advice, please ask one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentors|mentors]]. Happy editing! --[[User:GuildKnight|GuildKnight]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|Talk2me]] 22:30, 25 November 2008 (EST)

== Preview ==
Could you use the preview button instead of posting it first, as it is spamming the recent changes page. With the preview you can see what it looks like, and still add information.
--[[User:Tm|Tm]] 23:41, 25 November 2008 (EST)
:Sorry, it's my first day. I'll try to remember next time. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 23:43, 25 November 2008 (EST)

:: Can I remind you about this please? Eleven consecutive edits to your user page is a bit much. Thanks. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 14:37, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:::Sorry, couldn't remember it all, so I had to copy and paste one at a time. It's just a one time thing. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 14:41, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== My Fanfics ==
Hey I noticed you liked my fanfiction stories so I was wondering if you had any requests for my next story? From a character you want in it, to the whole main story itself! [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 13:12, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I'm into undercover stories. I like to read Alex Rider by Anthony Horowitz and the Cherub series by Robert Muchamore. As for coming up with ideas, I'm a little short. You could do a Shivering Isles theme or Knights of The Nine, or a sequel to your Infiltration story. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 14:01, 26 November 2008 (EST)

I have it for the xbox 360 and i have the si expansion, its ok but you have to devote stuff to it to play it, but i almost got in beaten, i should make a beastfolk race for it [[User:Humansaw93|Humansaw93]] 17:37, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:I play on XB 360, too. I have SI ordered off eBay (had to get disk version [no Xbox LIVE] ). I also didn't want the Reference Bug. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 17:42, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Hows This:Mythic Dawn agent ilfiltrates KotN. He warms up to them, and actually defeat Umariil? [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:05, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:That sounds pretty good. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 18:07, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Another one I was thinking about:Baurus had just saved the world frmo the Oblivion invasion. He reveals that Phintias is his brother, and Infiltrate/Destroy a new guild called the Blackwood company. It would have some drama in it (I was poisoned from that vile hist sap!) and some action. (Phintias and I had revealed ourselfs to the company, now it was time escape!) [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:12, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:I think the one about Blackwood Company infiltration sounds better. It sounds like it'd have more action. You could include something like that quest where you kill everyone in Water's Edge, just a different settlement like Aleswell or Harlun's Watch. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 18:15, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Whe the Leyawiin countess rolls out of town. all out war with the 'goblins' [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:21, 26 November 2008 (EST)

I was wondering if you liked the story so far.. and if you had anything you might have wanted in it. WARNING:If you give me a suggestion I have the tendency to snap it into the story, word for word.
:Actually, I like the way it's going just fine, Keep at it! --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 11:51, 14 December 2008 (EST)

'''Update:''' I added onto Blade Brothers. Expect alot more coming out, sorry I haven't been 'on it' [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 20:36, 27 December 2008 (EST)

== Reference Bug ==

I already asked this on the Reference Bug page, but with no results, so now I'll ask it here. Is the retail disk version of the Shivering Isles (Xbox 360) come with patch 1.2.1, and immune to the reference Bug? If it doesn't, I'm in big trouble. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 18:09, 26 November 2008 (EST)

I couldn't tell you. I got the GOTY edition. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:Lol. I was 5$ short of GoTY Edition so I just bought the normal game. I know yours has the patch. Just look at the Reference Bug page. It's one of the worst bugs in Elder Scrolls history. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 18:22, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Actually, I had to download the 1.1 patch thingy from XBL. Too bad you don't have it.

:I can hook it up if I need to, I just don't keep it hooked up. You had to download patch 1.2.1? How many Microsoft points does it cost? --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 18:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

XBL updates are free. For me, at least. (Gold Membership) [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:33, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:Oh, I only have silver. I only ever really play Assassin's Creed and Oblivion, so I don't really need it. In the Reference Bug section, a top contributor on here, [[User:Nephele|Nephele]], said retail disks came with latest patches, so I didn't think you had to download the patch. I saw it in the SI FAQs section, too. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 18:38, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::I got SI, and it came with Patch 1.2.1. I worried for nothing. :D! --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 19:57, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== Alex Rider ==
You said you liked the series. Me too, especially the end of Point Blank [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 18:39, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, they're really good. Well, see ya later. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 18:41, 26 November 2008 (EST)

== VERY long history page ==

Sorry for my long history page, I'm just always obsessively changing things. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 23:38, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Your userpage? If your talking about that, it doesn't really matter. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 00:03, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:Anyways, your history page is getting pretty big..

::I'm just a total pefectionist. I can't help it. I have to have good spelling, punctuation, etc. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 22:07, 13 December 2008 (EST)

- I'm a perfectionist aswell, if u look at my [[User:Tabloes|User Page]] you'll easily know i'm a perfectionist by the number of links. =D --[[User:Tabloes|Tabloes]] 12:25, 5 January 2009 (EST)

== Knackben?? ==

The Imperial in Whodunit? twist. Is Jackben Knolus. I hope you know that.. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 19:55, 30 November 2008 (EST)

:I know. I just molded it so I wasn't stealing the name. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:59, 1 December 2008 (EST)

Nice twist. By the way, my Fanfic sandbox has the first little part of the new story i'm writing.

== Fei-Emn?? ==
Sounds suspiciously like Tei' Emm to me.. 22:47, 15 December 2008 (EST)~

Actually, I got that one off the top of my head. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Deleted it anyway. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:24, 16 December 2008 (EST)

== Fallout 3 ==
Hey I got Fallout 3 also.. I'd call it an actual 'real' Oblivion.. what do you think? Oh, and I also think OB is more immersive.

:Fallout 3 is al lot like Oblivion, but is repetitive. The landscape doesn't vary as much like Oblivion. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 21:36, 29 December 2008 (EST)

Oblivion still has me glued. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 14:37, 30 December 2008 (EST)

:I don't play it as much anymore. I have recently purchased Gears of War 2 and End War. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 19:18, 30 December 2008 (EST)

== Still here? ==

Do you still visit this site regularly? Please reply. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 19:50, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

Sometimes, just not as much as I used to. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 18:48, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Okay! I'm back on daily, so check out my works. [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 20:02, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

== Reply to "Back" ==

Haha, thanks. I worked one it for a couple of hours trying to make it look like those fancy ones you see from the admins and patrollers. Yeah, it has been so long. So, do you have any projects going on? [[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 04:28, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
:Not really. I've been busy and I got Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, so I haven't really been that active. --[[User:Oblivion nerd|Oblivion nerd]] 23:42, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Same here. I picked up Tekken 6 on the day Modern Warfare 2 came out ( yesterday :P ) and I've been playing ever since.
[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 03:52, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Oblivion nerd

2009-11-12T03:51:33Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Reply to "Back" */

User talk:AepawovE

2009-11-10T22:56:39Z

Ninja Hinder: Welcome to the UESP!

== Welcome to the UESP! ==

Hello! Welcome to UESPWiki, AepawovE! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

* '''[[UESPWiki:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]''': UESPWiki standards and expectations
* '''[[Help:Quick Editing Guide|Quick Editing Guide]]''': a quick guide to wiki markup
* '''[[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]]''': how you can help

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave [[Help:Edit Summary|edit summaries]] to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Also, the "[[Help:Show Preview|show preview]]" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|Patrollers]] really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]] and don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]] if you need any help. Have fun! --[[User:Ninja Hinder|Ninja Hinder]] 22:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox

2009-11-10T22:55:50Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Your sandbox. */ Reply

User talk:Arch-Mage Matt/Sandbox

2009-11-10T20:58:09Z

Ninja Hinder: /* Your sandbox. */ new section