https://en.uesp.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=KrustyUESPWiki - User Contributions [en]2026-06-10T06:35:26ZUser ContributionsMediaWiki 1.32.6https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty&diff=3285322User:Krusty2025-04-22T19:12:33Z<p>Krusty: much, much older - but still around</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Notice|message=<center>QUOTE OF THE WEEK<br><br />
'''''''You just let old nana know if you need anything, all right dear?'''''''<br><br />
</center>}}<br />
{| style="float:left; margin-right:1.5em;" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=1 rules=none <br />
|{{User Admin}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Danish}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Oblivion}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Male}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User PlayStation}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User ShiveringIsles}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2009|month=2|day=11}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User IRC}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Dawnstar}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{Userbox|#ffeecc|#ffeeee|[[File:OB-icon-misc-Quill.png|45x45px]]|info=This user has made over [[Special:UsersEditCount|20,000 edits]] to UESP.}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{Userbox|#000000|#DCDCDC|[[Image:SR-icon-logo.jpg|25px]]|info=This user pretends to be knowledgeable about '''[[sr:Skyrim|Skyrim]]'''.}}<br />
|}<br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox|Sandbox 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox2|Sandbox 2]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox3|Sandbox 3]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox4|Sandbox 4]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox5|Sandbox 5]] •<br>• [[User:Krusty/Sandbox6|Sandbox 6]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox7|Sandbox 7]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox8|Sandbox 8]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox9|Sandbox 9]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|Sandbox 10]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Skyrim_NPC_Articles|Skyrim NPC articles]] • [[User:Krusty/Dawnstar_Images|Dawnstar Images]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Dawnstar_Notepad|Dawnstar Notepad]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Camp 1|Camp 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/House 1|House 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/House 2|House 2]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/SIRP|SIRP]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Cookies|Cookie Jar]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[Special:Emailuser/Krusty|e-mail]] • </center><br />
<center>{{Ribbon|width=120px|OBNPCRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|SIRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|OPRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|ICP}}{{Ribbon|SRQRP|width=120px}}{{Ribbon|SHRP|width=120px}}<br />
</center><br />
===ABOUT ME===<br />
My real name is [[Oblivion:Jesper| Jesper]] and I am a 51 year-old male, living in Denmark. I make a living as a freelance editor on films and television and have done so for the last 19 years. Due to the financial crisis, business weren't good in the first few months of 2009, and instead of boring myself to death, I decided to join this Wiki, which I had used numerous times since I started playing Oblivion in the summer of 2008. My very first edit was a half-baked and a bit naive schedule for [[Oblivion:Marana Rian|Marana Rian]], a trainer that I had chased around after in order to find her - again and again. I figured, I would help gamers avoid the same amount of trouble. So I followed her around for two whole in-game days, which, at the time, felt like a lifetime. Understandably (when I look at it now), Rpeh reverted my schedule, but noted in his Edit Summary, that I had been very close. After talking to him on his talk page, he offered me a gig as an in-game checker on something called the '''[[UESPWiki:Oblivion_NPC_Redesign_Project|ONPCRP]]''' - short for the Oblivion NPC Redesign Project, and I slowly started to spy on the different NPCs that were already written. At one point, I felt so secure about the game's mechanics and the NPC behavior, that I was given permission to write my own - from observations made in the game. The rest is history, and I am now a steady contributor to the project, having followed over 500+ NPCs around (mind you, every NPC takes between 48 minutes and 6 hours to check/write in-game), and I have no intentions of slowing down - except for the fact, that the TV editing jobs are slowly crawling back to me, which is good, even though it means I DO have to slow down - a little.<br><br />
'''(text written in 2009)'''<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
[[File:SI-npc-Relmyna_Verenim.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Janus_Hassildor.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Methredhel.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Amusei.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Fathis Ules.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Countess_Alessia_Caro.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Modryn_Oreyn.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
<br />
===SKYRIM===<br />
I wrote the following Skyrim articles and feel responsible for their maintenance:<br />
{{Sandbox Space|Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Take Up Arms}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Proving Honor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Silver Hand}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Blood's Honor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Purity of Revenge}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Glory of the Dead}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Tending the Flames}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Finn's Lute}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Pantea's Flute}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Blood on the Ice}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Only Cure}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Taste of Death}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Narfi}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Salt for Arcadia}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Locate the Assassin of Old}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Take the Hidden Treasure}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Black Star}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Forbidden Legend}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Flight or Fight}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Beitild}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Mourning Never Comes}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Maluril}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Dark Brotherhood Forever}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A Daedra's Best Friend}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Bleak Falls Barrow (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The House of Horrors}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Joining the Legion}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Ghost of Old Hroldan}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Salty Sea-Dogs}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ansilvund (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ragnvald (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Man Who Cried Wolf}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Dark Ancestor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Yngol's Barrow}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Find the Thalmor Assassin}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Unfathomable Depths}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Blessings of Nature}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rise in the East}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Diplomatic Immunity}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Evil in Waiting}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A Scroll For Anska}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Robber's Gorge (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rannveig's Fast (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Liar's Retreat (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Volskygge (quest)}} <br />
*{{Quest Link|The Break of Dawn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hitting the Books}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Grimsever's Return}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Elder Knowledge}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Temple of Miraak|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Fate of the Skaal|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Alduin's Bane}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Paid in Full|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|First Edition|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Feeding the Addiction|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|It's All In The Taste|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A New Source of Stalhrim|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Clean Sweep|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|An Axe to Find|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Final Descent|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Chief of Thirsk Hall|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Fetch the Netch|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Served Cold|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Reluctant Steward|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Healing a House|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost Legacy|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Briarheart Necropsy|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The White Phial (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Repairing the Phial}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rjorn's Drum}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Retaking Thirsk|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Frostflow Abyss}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Drowned Sorrows}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Old Friends|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hilund Favor Quest|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost Knowledge|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Deathbrand (quest)|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hrodulf's Madness|ns_base=Skyrim}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A False Front (Imperial)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Bolstering the Ranks}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost to the Ages}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Prophet (Dawnguard)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A New Order}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ill Met By Moonlight}}<br />
__NOTOC__</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty&diff=1924198User:Krusty2019-02-28T10:40:59Z<p>Krusty: much older!</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Notice|message=<center>QUOTE OF THE WEEK<br><br />
'''''''You just let old nana know if you need anything, all right dear?'''''''<br><br />
</center>}}<br />
{| style="float:left; margin-right:1.5em;" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=1 rules=none <br />
|{{User Admin}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Danish}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Oblivion}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Male}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Playstation}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User ShiveringIsles}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2009|month=2|day=11}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User IRC}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Dawnstar}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{Userbox|#ffeecc|#ffeeee|[[File:OB-icon-misc-Quill.png|45x45px]]|info=This user has made over [[Special:UsersEditCount|20,000 edits]] to UESP.}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{Userbox|#000000|#DCDCDC|[[Image:SR-icon-logo.jpg|25px]]|info=This user pretends to be knowledgeable about '''[[sr:Skyrim|Skyrim]]'''.}}<br />
|}<br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox|Sandbox 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox2|Sandbox 2]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox3|Sandbox 3]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox4|Sandbox 4]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox5|Sandbox 5]] •<br>• [[User:Krusty/Sandbox6|Sandbox 6]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox7|Sandbox 7]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox8|Sandbox 8]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox9|Sandbox 9]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|Sandbox 10]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Skyrim_NPC_Articles|Skyrim NPC articles]] • [[User:Krusty/Dawnstar_Images|Dawnstar Images]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Dawnstar_Notepad|Dawnstar Notepad]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Camp 1|Camp 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/House 1|House 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/House 2|House 2]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/SIRP|SIRP]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Cookies|Cookie Jar]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[Special:Emailuser/Krusty|e-mail]] • </center><br />
<center>{{Ribbon|width=120px|OBNPCRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|SIRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|OPRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|ICP}}{{Ribbon|SRQRP|width=120px}}{{Ribbon|SHRP|width=120px}}<br />
</center><br />
===ABOUT ME===<br />
My real name is [[Oblivion:Jesper| Jesper]] and I am a 45 year-old male, living in Denmark. I make a living as a freelance editor on films and television and have done so for the last 19 years. Due to the financial crisis, business weren't good in the first few months of 2009, and instead of boring myself to death, I decided to join this Wiki, which I had used numerous times since I started playing Oblivion in the summer of 2008. My very first edit was a half-baked and a bit naive schedule for [[Oblivion:Marana Rian|Marana Rian]], a trainer that I had chased around after in order to find her - again and again. I figured, I would help gamers avoid the same amount of trouble. So I followed her around for two whole in-game days, which, at the time, felt like a lifetime. Understandably (when I look at it now), Rpeh reverted my schedule, but noted in his Edit Summary, that I had been very close. After talking to him on his talk page, he offered me a gig as an in-game checker on something called the '''[[UESPWiki:Oblivion_NPC_Redesign_Project|ONPCRP]]''' - short for the Oblivion NPC Redesign Project, and I slowly started to spy on the different NPCs that were already written. At one point, I felt so secure about the game's mechanics and the NPC behavior, that I was given permission to write my own - from observations made in the game. The rest is history, and I am now a steady contributor to the project, having followed over 500+ NPCs around (mind you, every NPC takes between 48 minutes and 6 hours to check/write in-game), and I have no intentions of slowing down - except for the fact, that the TV editing jobs are slowly crawling back to me, which is good, even though it means I DO have to slow down - a little.<br><br />
'''(text written in 2009)'''<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
[[File:SI-npc-Relmyna_Verenim.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Janus_Hassildor.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Methredhel.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Amusei.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Fathis Ules.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Countess_Alessia_Caro.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Modryn_Oreyn.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
<br />
===SKYRIM===<br />
I wrote the following Skyrim articles and feel responsible for their maintenance: <br />
*{{Quest Link|Take Up Arms}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Proving Honor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Silver Hand}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Blood's Honor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Purity of Revenge}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Glory of the Dead}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Tending the Flames}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Finn's Lute}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Pantea's Flute}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Blood on the Ice}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Only Cure}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Taste of Death}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Narfi}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Salt for Arcadia}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Locate the Assassin of Old}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Take the Hidden Treasure}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Black Star}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Forbidden Legend}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Flight or Fight}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Beitild}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Mourning Never Comes}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Maluril}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Dark Brotherhood Forever}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A Daedra's Best Friend}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Bleak Falls Barrow (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The House of Horrors}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Joining the Legion}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Ghost of Old Hroldan}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Salty Sea-Dogs}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ansilvund (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ragnvald (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Man Who Cried Wolf}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Dark Ancestor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Yngol's Barrow}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Find the Thalmor Assassin}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Unfathomable Depths}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Blessings of Nature}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rise in the East}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Diplomatic Immunity}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Evil in Waiting}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A Scroll For Anska}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Robber's Gorge (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rannveig's Fast (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Liar's Retreat (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Volskygge (quest)}} <br />
*{{Quest Link|The Break of Dawn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hitting the Books}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Grimsever's Return}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Elder Knowledge}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Temple of Miraak|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Fate of the Skaal|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Alduin's Bane}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Paid in Full|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|First Edition|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Feeding the Addiction|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|It's All In The Taste|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A New Source of Stalhrim|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Clean Sweep|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|An Axe to Find|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Final Descent|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Chief of Thirsk Hall|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Fetch the Netch|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Served Cold|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Reluctant Steward|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Healing a House|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost Legacy|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Briarheart Necropsy|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The White Phial (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Repairing the Phial}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rjorn's Drum}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Retaking Thirsk|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Frostflow Abyss (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Drowned Sorrows}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Old Friends|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hilund Favor Quest|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost Knowledge|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Deathbrand (quest)|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hrodulf's Madness|ns_base=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A False Front (Imperial)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Bolstering the Ranks}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost to the Ages}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Prophet (Dawnguard)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A New Order}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ill Met By Moonlight}}<br />
__NOTOC__</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox2&diff=1518991User:Krusty/Sandbox22016-06-02T20:34:53Z<p>Krusty: emptying</p>
<hr />
<div></div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Maven_Black-Briar&diff=1518990Skyrim:Maven Black-Briar2016-06-02T20:34:16Z<p>Krusty: complete overhaul - added three vn-tags for the CS wizards</p>
<hr />
<div>{{NPC Summary<br />
|essential=yes<br />
|house=[[Skyrim:Black-Briar Manor|Black-Briar Manor]]<br />
|city=[[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]<br />
|race=Nord<br />
|gender=Female<br />
|class=Nightblade<br />
|faction={{Faction|CR04ExclusionFaction}}; {{Faction|CrimeFactionRift}}; {{Faction|FavorExcludedFaction}}; {{Faction|Imperial Government}}; {{Faction|MQ201PartyGuestHappy}}; {{Faction|NPCs the Player cannot marry}}; {{Faction|Riften Black Briar House Faction}}; {{Faction|Thieves Guild No Pickpocketing Faction}}; {{Faction|TownRiftenFaction}}; {{Faction|faction for party guests}}<br />
|refid=00019DD1<br />
|baseid=0001336A<br />
|image=SR-npc-Maven Black-Briar.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Maven Black-Briar<br />
|skills='''[[Skyrim:Destruction|Destruction]]''', '''[[Skyrim:Sneak|Sneak]]''', [[Skyrim:Alteration|Alteration]], [[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]]<br />
|aggress=Unaggressive<br />
|level=PC&times;1 (range&#061;10-35)<br />
|moral=No Crime<br />
|health=50+(PC-1)&times;8.3<br />
|magicka=50+(PC-1)&times;3.3<br />
|stamina=50+(PC-1)&times;3.3<br />
|voicetype=Unique<br />
}}[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"The throne suits me, don't you think?"'']]<br />
'''Maven Black-Briar''' is the matriarch of the Black-Briar family, and unofficially controls most of [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]. She is the mother of [[Skyrim:Hemming Black-Briar|Hemming Black-Briar]], and grandmother of [[Skyrim:Ingun Black-Briar|Ingun]] and [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi]]. [[Skyrim:Maul|Maul]] is her right-hand man and enforces her will in the city. She has strong ties with both the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]] and the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]], as well as being a personal friend of Jarl [[Skyrim:Laila_Law-Giver|Laila Law-Giver]], despite their political differences. She has her hands in every shady business in Riften, is involved in multiple quests, and is so influential that she will take over as [[Skyrim:Jarl|Jarl]] if the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]] conquer [[Skyrim:The_Rift|the Rift]].<br />
<br />
Maven wears [[Skyrim:Fine_Clothes#000cee80|fine clothes]] with [[Skyrim:Fine_Boots#000cee82|fine boots]] along with a leveled necklace and ring. She carries a [[Skyrim:Belted_Tunic|belted tunic]], her [[Skyrim:Maven's_Personal_Key|personal key]], the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar_Manor_Key|Black-Briar Manor key]], a leveled [[Skyrim:Dagger|dagger]] of the best possible quality, a [[Skyrim:Potions|potion]], and a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled_Lists#Rich|upper-class items and gold]]. She knows the spells [[Skyrim:Lightning Bolt|Lightning Bolt]], [[Skyrim:Sparks|Sparks]], and [[Skyrim:Steadfast Ward|Steadfast Ward]].<br />
<br />
Maven lives in [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Manor|Black-Briar Manor]], right next to [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep|Mistveil Keep]], and she sleeps there every night between midnight and 8am, in her large second-floor bedroom. After a two-hour breakfast, her busy day begins with a visit to one of her many businesses, the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]], to check up on brewmaster [[Skyrim:Indaryn|Indaryn]] and the other employees. At noon she enjoys a two-hour lunch at the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]] with [[Skyrim:Vulwulf Snow-Shod|Vulwulf Snow-Shod]], before she pays a visit to Laila Law-Giver in Mistveil Keep at 2pm. At 4pm she browses the marketplace in the town center until 6pm when she returns home for a two-hour dinner. Her entire evening is spent at the Bee and Barb, until she finally heads back to her luxurious bedroom at midnight. There are only three exceptions to this routine: during the quest [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]] when she will stay hidden on the second floor of the Bee and Barb and hand out orders to you, during [[Skyrim:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]] when she will be one of the guests at the [[Skyrim:Thalmor Embassy|Thalmor Emabssy]], and during the Thieves Guild quest [[Skyrim:Under New Management|Under New Management]] when she will show up in the [[Skyrim:The_Ragged_Flagon_-_Cistern|Cistern]] of the [[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]] and oversee your initiation.<br />
<br />
If she is appointed jarl, Maven will move into [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep|Mistveil Keep]] with Hemming and Maul and follow a different routine befitting her new station. She sleeps in the [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep Jarl's Chambers|jarl's chambers]] between midnight and 8am then heads downstairs and breakfasts with the rest of her court for two hours. She then takes the throne and stays there until her bedtime, interrupted only by two-hour meals at 1pm and 7pm. She runs all her operations from Mistveil Keep, but will still leave for the Bee and Barb during Dampened Spirits. If she is jarl, she will not turn up at the Thalmor Embassy during Diplomatic Immunity, although she will still turn up at the Ragged Flagon during Under New Management.<br />
<br />
Clearly the most influential citizen in Riften, Maven has the attitude to match, both when [[#Conversations|talking to the citizens]] and when talking to you. When you approach her she will greet you with disgust, saying: ''"I presume you're bothering me for a good reason?"'', ''"What in the name of Oblivion do you want?"'' or ''"I don't have time for idle chit-chat. What is it?"'' If you tell her that her name carries a lot of weight in Riften, she will reveal just how much weight: ''"Of course. Nothing gets done without my approval in this city. I have the Jarl's ear, and the guards in my pocket. Anyone makes trouble for me and I pay a visit to the Thieves Guild. Make me angry and I contact the Dark Brotherhood. You'd do well to remember that the next time you make such a stupid observation."'' After joining the Thieves Guild, you can also ask her how she became allied with them, to which she will respond: ''"The Black-Briar family has always been allied with the Guild. Our connections with the Empire and within Skyrim make for a perfect fit. I dare say the Guild owes its survival as much to my family as it does to its own people."'' When exiting conversation, you will always get a disgusted ''"I believe we're done."'' or ''"Out of my way."'' She shows little compassion for the poor and suffering and, when she is browsing the market in the afternoon, the local beggars will collect nothing of her wealth. When asking for a handout, [[Skyrim:Snilf|Snilf]] will receive a: ''"Never. Now move aside."'' while [[Skyrim:Edda|Edda]] will get an even more degrading: ''"Get away from me, you filthy woman."'' She is equally uninterested in [[Lore:Mara|Mara]] and the message of love, and if you attempt to hand her a [[Skyrim:The_Warmth_of_Mara|pamphlet]] during [[Skyrim:Spread the Love|Spread the Love]], she will accept it as a joke: ''"Excellent, I needed some more kindling for my kitchen hearth."'' If the Imperial Legion conquers the Rift and she is made jarl, she will do very little but live the good life inside Mistveil Keep, happily noting that she finally found a position suitable for her influence, saying: ''"The throne suits me, don't you think?"'', ''"My title is just a formality. I've always been in charge around here."'' and ''"Jarl Maven Black-Briar. Has a pleasant sound to it, wouldn't you say?"''<br />
<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
{{TOCright|limit=3}}<br />
== Related Quests ==<br />
'''Thieves Guild Questline'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Dampened Spirits}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|The Pursuit}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Vald's Debt}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Under New Management}}<br />
'''Mistveil Keep Quests'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|The Raid}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Supply and Demand}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|I Done Got Thaned!}}<br />
'''Riften Quests'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Promises to Keep}}<br />
'''Main Questline'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Diplomatic Immunity}}<br />
<br />
== Quest-related Events ==<br />
===Loud and Clear===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Loud_and_Clear_04.jpg|thumb|right|''"The Guild depends on an arrangement of influential people to keep things running smoothly."'']]<br />
At the beginning of [[Skyrim:Loud and Clear|Loud and Clear]], [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] will introduce you to [[Skyrim:Mercer Frey|Mercer Frey]] who will put your skills to the test with a job that even [[Skyrim:Vex|Vex]] couldn't do—breaking into [[Skyrim:Goldenglow Estate|Goldenglow Estate]]. He will explain: ''"Goldenglow Estate is critically important to one of our largest clients. However, the owner has suddenly decided to take matters into his own hands and shut us out. He needs to be taught a lesson. Brynjolf will provide you with the details."'' Brynjolf will then take over: ''"Goldenglow Estate is a bee farm; they raise the wretched little things for honey. It's owned by some smart-mouth wood elf named [[Skyrim:Aringoth|Aringoth]]. We need you to teach him a lesson by burning down three of the estate's hives and clearing out the safe in the main house."'' However, the unnamed 'client' will not tolerate you burning down the entire estate: ''"The catch is that you can't burn the whole place to the ground. That important client Mercer mentioned would be furious if you did."'' He will explain why upsetting the important client would be bad for the Guild: ''"That's not how things work around here. The Guild depends on an arrangement of influential people to keep things running smoothly. Without them at our backs, we'd be in serious trouble."''<br />
<br />
When you ask what should be done with Aringoth, Brynjolf will reveal the name of the client: ''"Maven prefers that Aringoth remains alive, but if he tries to stop you from getting the job done, kill him. The Guild has a lot riding on this. Don't make me look foolish by mucking it up."'' When asked why the entire estate can't be leveled, Brynjolf will explain: ''"I'll give you one good reason. Maven Black-Briar. Burn all the hives and she'd have to import honey for Black-Briar Meadery which would cut into her profits."'' He will then explain further about the cooperation between Maven and the Guild: ''"We had an arrangement with Maven. We kept an eye on Goldenglow Estate to make sure the honey kept flowing. If the workers had a dispute, we'd rough them up. If competitors tried to buy honey from Aringoth, we'd steal the shipments. In return, Maven allowed us to extort Aringoth and bring in a huge payout."'' When asked how dangerous Maven is, Brynjolf will say: ''"Let me put it to you this way. Nothing happens in Riften without Maven's consent. One word from her and you could spend the rest of the fourth era in prison."''<br />
<br />
However, should you talk to Aringoth inside Goldenglow, you will find that he is quite scared: ''"I didn't think Maven or Mercer would allow me to get away with this, but I had little choice."'' Ask him for the safe's key and he'll refuse, terrified: ''"I can't. If I do, I may as well cut my own throat."'' If you successfully persuade him to hand over the key he'll sigh: ''"Fine. Take it! Once the new owner finds out I gave in, I'm as good as dead anyway."''When you return to Brynjolf with the ''[[Skyrim:Goldenglow_Bill_of_Sale_(safe)|Goldenglow Bill of Sale]]'' from the safe, Brynjolf's response will differ depending on your efforts with the burning of the beehives. If you did it wrong, he will say: ''"You've made a mess of things and Maven's furious. I told you not to burn more than three of the hives! I've smoothed things over with her for now, but you can forget your cut."'' If you did well, he will greet you with: ''"Word on the street is Goldenglow's been hit. Good job, lad/lass."'' He will then look at the bill and say: ''"Aringoth sold Goldenglow? What's that idiot thinking? He has no idea the extent of Maven's fury when she's been cut out of a deal, but I'm certain he'll find out. If only this parchment had the buyer's name instead of this odd symbol. Any idea what that might be?"'' When you say 'no' he will send you to Maven with the words: ''"Blast. Well, I'll check my sources and speak to Mercer. But for now, you're off to speak to Maven Black-Briar. She asked for you by name."'' To respond to this unsettling invitation, you are presented with three options:<br />
{|class=wikitable width="100%"<br />
!width=27%|Option<br />
!Dialogue<br />
|-<br />
|Good, it's about time I met her.||''"Don't sound so eager, it's not a social visit. It's business."''<br />
|-<br />
|I thought I did the job like you asked...?||''"Oh, no. Nothing like that. You're calling on her for business."''<br />
|-<br />
|Sure, but will I come out of there alive?||''"Ha ha. If it was like that she wouldn't be asking for you, she'd be calling on the Dark Brotherhood. It's just business."''<br />
|}<br />
When you ask him what Maven wants, Brynjolf will respond: ''"That's between you and Maven and I prefer to keep it that way. Just keep your ears open and your mouth shut and you'll do fine."'' '''OR''' ''"Don't worry about it. Maven's business dealings usually involve quite a bit of gold for her people."'' After handing you the reward, the quest ends and Brynjolf will repeat: ''"Maven wants to see you right away. I suggest you head right over."'' This starts the next quest, [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]].<br />
<br />
===Dampened Spirits===<br />
Inside the newly opened [[Skyrim:Honningbrew Meadery|Honningbrew Meadery]] near [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]] stands confident owner [[Skyrim:Sabjorn|Sabjorn]], who will sell his produce saying: ''"Honningbrew uses only the finest natural honey, not that sludge you'll find at Goldenglow Estate."'' and ''"Black-Briar Mead is just fine, if you need something to wash the dirt off a riding horse's hooves."'' This kind of unfriendly competition is not acceptable for Maven and you will find her waiting for you on the second floor of the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]], obviously not interested in attracting too much attention. When she sees you, her greeting will differ depending on your efforts back at Goldenglow. If you managed to screw it up, she will be disgusted and say: ''"So you're the one that burned down Goldenglow Estate. Do you have any idea what that little stunt you pulled is going to cost me? I'm amazed you even bothered to show your face here."'' If you did well, she will only say: ''"So, you're the one. Hmm. You don't look so impressive."'' However, you will be presented with three different options, again depending on your past efforts. The table below displays all possible variations and the conditions:<br />
{{vn|needs exact conditions for each line of dialogue}}<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!Effort at Goldenglow <br />
!Option<br />
!Maven's response<br />
|-<br />
!rowspan=3| Success<br />
| I'm the best at what I do.<br />
| ''"Is that confidence I hear... or is it arrogance? Strange how often they're confused. You have to understand, it's been a long time since Brynjolf's sent me anyone I can rely on."''<br />
|-<br />
| How about we skip the conversation?<br />
| ''"You're a firebrand, aren't you? It's about time Brynjolf sent me someone with business sense. I was beginning to think he was running some sort of beggar's guild over there."''<br />
|-<br />
| Sorry you're disappointed.<br />
| ''"This is exactly what I'm talking about. Once again Brynjolf sends me someone with no backbone, no determination."''<br />
|-<br />
! Failure<br />
| My apologies, Lady Maven.<br />
| ''"The only reason we're having this conversation is due to Brynjolf's assurance you won't botch another assignment. He claims you possess some sort of uncanny aptitude for your line of work. Quite frankly I find that hard to believe."''<br />
|}<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_03.jpg|thumb|right|''"Faith? I don't have faith in anyone."'']]<br />
After that, you can ask her if she has no faith in the Thieves Guild: ''"Faith? I don't have faith in anyone. All I care about is cause and effect. Did the job get done and was it done correctly. There's no gray area."'' You can now tell her she won't have any problems like that with you and she will say: ''"I hope not. This is an important job. I have a competitor called Honningbrew Meadery that I want to put out of business. I also want to know how they managed to get the place up and running so quickly."'' She will then explain what needs to be done beforehand: ''"Head to the Bannered Mare in Whiterun and look for Mallus Maccius. He'll fill you in on all the details."'' At this point, you can ask for an elaboration on the owner at Honningbrew: ''"Some layabout named Sabjorn. Been a thorn in my side for the last few years now."'' When you point out that Sabjorn seems like more than just friendly competition, she will admit: ''"Not a day goes by that I don't regret letting Sabjorn get as far as he did. In only a few short years, he's taken that bile he calls mead to market and a chunk of my profits with it! I can't imagine where he found the gold to take it to market so quickly."'' She then admits he needs to be taken out: ''"Exactly. With Sabjorn in prison, his meadery will be forced to close. Then I swoop in and take over the place. No more competition."'' She will send you away with a warning: ''"One more time in case I wasn't clear. You butcher this job and you'll be sorry."'' You can ask her why she strikes the Honningbrew Meadery now: ''"The Goldenglow Estate job has undoubtedly interrupted the supply of honey I need to make my mead. Sabjorn could use this interruption to his advantage and collect a larger share of the market. I can't have that."'' Otherwise, she will just ask you to hurry: ''"Shouldn't you be on your way to Whiterun?"'' and ''"Why aren't you at Honningbrew Meadery?"''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Mallus_Maccius_02.jpg|thumb|left|''"Maven and I spent weeks planning this."'']]<br />
In [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]], unhappy brewmaster [[Skyrim:Mallus Maccius|Mallus Maccius]] will share the clever plan about poisoning the brewing vats and will finish with: ''"Maven and I spent weeks planning this. All we need is someone like you to get in there and get it done."'' He will also add: ''"Once Sabjorn is out of the way, Maven has plans for this place."'' He will then explain his motives for ruining things for Sabjorn: ''"Maven and I worked out a little deal. If Sabjorn ends up in jail, she's going to take over his meadery. And guess who gets to run the Black-Briar Meadery in Whiterun? You're looking at him."''<br />
<br />
After the deed is done and Sabjorn is behind bars, ask Mallus for permission to look at Sabjorn's books and he will say: ''"So, Maven wants to hunt down Sabjorn's private partner, huh?"'' and hand you the key. When you mention the presence of [[Skyrim:Hamelyn|Hamelyn]] in the basement, he will admit: ''"I thought it would be better to leave some of the details out of our previous discussion. Didn't want to risk you walking away from the job. Besides, you've done Maven a favor getting rid of him and saved me from wasting coin hiring someone else to do it later."'' Lastly, he will tell you what he will do to the old Honningbrew Meadery: ''"Start changing it over to the Black-Briar Meadery West as soon as possible. That was Maven's part of the deal. She's put me in charge of keeping the mead flowing, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. If you're in the area and you ever need anything fenced, you just let me know."'' He will bid you farewell with: ''"Remember to put in a good word with Maven for me."'' In Sabjorn's private quarters you will find an [[Skyrim:Have Need of Cynric|offer]] from Maven, along with the [[Skyrim:Promissory Note|promissory note]].<br />
<br />
Back in the Bee and Barb, Maven will be waiting for you, greeting you with an impatient: ''"I trust you have good news for me."'' Two options will reflect whether or not you failed at Honningbrew Meadery. If you failed, you will get a good talking-to before Maven will take the promissory note from you.<br />
{{vn|needs exact conditions for each line of dialogue, and the missing part filled in, if any}}<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!Effort at Honningbrew<br />
!Option<br />
!Maven's response<br />
|-<br />
!rowspan=2| Failure<br />
| Job's finished. Here's the information you requested.<br />
| ''"Have you lost your mind? I thought it was clear I didn't want anyone killed. Now I have to spend a fortune to keep the whole thing quiet. Guess where that money comes from."''<br />
|-<br />
| I'm sorry, Maven.<br />
| ''"The only thing keeping me from having you killed is Brynjolf. He's stepped in and made amends. At least you remembered to bring me the information I requested. Give me that."''<br />
|-<br />
! (missing?)<br />
| ?'''?'''?'''?'''<br />
| '''just a reminder to look into this, per conversation in IRC :)'''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Whether or not you succeeded or failed, Maven will take the note from you and be annoyed: ''"This doesn't tell me much. The only thing that could identify Sabjorn's partner is this odd little symbol."'' She will continue with: ''"Well, whoever this mysterious marking represents, they'll regret starting a war with me. You should bring this information to the Thieves Guild immediately. There's also the matter of your payment. I believe you'll find this more than adequate for your services."'' After handing you the reward, she will send you away with: ''"I believe we're done."'' Back in the [[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]], Brynjolf will comment: ''"Word on the street is that poor Sabjorn has found himself in Whiterun's prison. How unfortunate for him."'' When you remark that it was fortunate for Maven, Brynjol will respond: ''"Exactly! Now you're beginning to see how our little system works. Maven sent word that you discovered something else while you were out there. Something important to the Guild?"'' When you tell him about the symbol, he will say: ''"Then this is beyond coincidence. First Aringoth and now Sabjorn. Someone's trying to take us down by driving a wedge between Maven and the Guild."'' He will then send you to see Mercer Frey, thus ending the quest. Should you pay Mallus Maccius a visit in his new brewery, he will happily say: ''"Maven Black-Briar always remembers her friends. That's why I'm in charge of the place."''<br />
<br />
=== Scoundrel's Folly ===<br />
The next quest, [[Skyrim:Scoundrel's Folly|Scoundrel's Folly]], takes you to an angry Mercer Frey who has been equally unable to identify the strange symbol. He concludes: ''"It would seem our adversary is attempting to take us apart indirectly by angering Maven Black-Briar. Very clever."'' However, the unknown enemy made a mistake and Mercer orders you to visit an old Thieves Guild accomplice, [[Skyrim:Gulum-Ei|Gulum-Ei]], who used to be their contact in [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]]'s [[Skyrim:East Empire Company|East Empire Company]]. You are to seek him out and shake the truth out of him, in an attempt to identify who bought Goldenglow. Before leaving for Solitude, pay a visit to Maven and tell her about current events. It turns out she has been in contact with Mercer: ''"Yes, we spoke at length while you were in Whiterun dealing with our meadery situation. I hope for all your sakes you find out who's behind this supposed 'plot.'"'' She will then explain her choice of words: ''"Having Goldenglow kept in line by the Thieves Guild has kept the honey flowing with minimal cost. Now, mysteriously, some sort of anonymous adversary shows up and takes the Estate out of my hands."'' She will then admit she starts to doubt the Thieves Guild: ''"When you've been doing business like I have for decades, you quickly discover that the only person you can trust is yourself."'' According to Maven there is only one way to regain her trust in the Guild: ''"If you were to bring me the deed to Goldenglow Estate, so I was the full owner, that would be a step in the right direction."'' If that happens, she will be willing to compensate: ''"Since I know losing the farm's payments will harm the Guild, I intend to make a substantial contribution for compensation. I take care of my friends."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Gulum-Ei_02.jpg|thumb|left]]<br />
After your lengthy trek through the Empire Company Warehouse and Brinewater Grotto, stubborn Argonian Gulum-Ei will finally be scared enough to tell the truth about how he acted as middleman in the sale of Goldenglow, as well as who was behind it: [[Skyrim:Karliah|Karliah]], the thief responsible for murdering Mercer Frey's predecessor, Gallus. While the plot thickens, Maven will once again be brought up, after Gulum-Ei hands you the deed to Goldenglow Estate: ''"Here, take the Goldenglow Estate Deed as proof. And when you speak to Mercer, tell him I'm worth more to him alive."'' Now you can ask him why Karliah purchased Goldenglow, and the plan will be obvious: ''"I asked her the same thing and she wouldn't come out and tell me. But now that I know who she is, I'd say she's trying to hit the Thieves Guild where it hurts."'' He will then explain: ''"Maven Black-Briar needs Goldenglow's honey for her mead. She's been using the Guild to keep the Estate under her thumb. If the owner cuts the Guild out of the picture, he's cutting Maven out of the picture... which she can't afford. If I was Maven, I'd blame the Guild for weakening and not being able to handle the place."'' He will then state the obvious, that Maven would lose faith in the Guild, exactly as she told you back in Riften: ''"Exactly. For the Guild to survive, they need Maven's support. This Karliah must have spent a lot of time and resources planning this."'' When you return to Mercer Frey, he will be so shocked to hear the name Karliah, that Maven and her funds will be temporarily forgotten while you go through [[Skyrim:Snow Veil Sanctum|Snow Veil Sanctum]] with Mercer during the quest [[Skyrim:Speaking With Silence|Speaking With Silence]].<br />
<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
===The Pursuit===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Karliah_09.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Karliah|Karliah]]]]<br />
When Mercer betrays you at the end of Speaking With Silence, the conversation between Mercer and Karliah makes it clear who bought Goldenglow Estate and funded Honningbrew Meadery, simply to lure Mercer out in the open due to the rage of Maven Black-Briar, as she explains it inside Snow Veil Sanctum: ''"'To ensure an enemy's defeat, you must first undermine his allies.' It was the first lesson Gallus taught us."'' Brynjolf will comment on Karliah's actions with admiration: ''"Trying to make Mercer look bad in front of Maven, eh? Clever lass."'' When you find [[Skyrim: Gallus's Encoded Journal|proof]] of Mercer's betrayal during the quest [[Skyrim:Hard Answers]], Karliah finally comes out of hiding and convinces Brynjolf, Vex, and [[Skyrim:Delvin Mallory|Delvin Mallory]] that Mercer needs to be taken out, especially after showing them the emptied treasury. During the quest [[Skyrim:The Pursuit|The Pursuit]], Brynjolf will ask you to investigate Mercer's residence, [[Skyrim:Riftweald Manor|Riftweald Manor]], for clues on Mercer's location. According to Brynjolf, Mercer inherited the manor from the Black-Briars: ''"Aye. A gift from the Black-Briars after they kicked the previous family out... place called Riftweald Manor. He never stays there, just pays for the upkeep on it. Hired some lout by the name of Vald to guard the place."''<br />
<br />
===Vald's Debt===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Vald_02.jpg|thumb|left]]<br />
Brynjolf will then elaborate on [[Skyrim:Vald|Vald]], starting the concurrent quest [[Skyrim:Vald's Debt|Vald's Debt]]: ''"A real piece of work, that one. Mercer's holding something over his head, keeping him loyal. Talk to Vex. She used to know him very well... if you catch my meaning."'' When you speak to [[Skyrim:Vex|Vex]] she will tell you what it takes to remove Vald from the property: ''"Sure, but he'll ask for a whole lot. I mean, you are asking him to betray Mercer Frey. Your best bet would be to erase his debt with Maven Black-Briar. If you talk to her, she might be able to give you the details."'' When confronted in the backyard of Riftweald Manor, Vald himself will echo Vex's statements: ''"You ain't got enough coin to make my problems go away unless ya' can talk Maven Black-Briar into letting me outta' my debt."''<br />
<br />
When Maven is confronted with this demand, she will be less than impressed: ''"Vald? Why would you want to help that idiot? He owes me a steep debt. In fact, he's lucky all I did was force him to work for Mercer."'' She will then explain why Vald owes her: ''"A few years back, I commissioned a unique quill from a good friend of mine in Winterhold. Vald was tasked with getting it here safely and it ended up at the bottom of Lake Honrich."'' She will then elaborate on the [[Skyrim:Quill of Gemination|Quill of Gemination]]: ''"The wizards called it the Quill of Gemination and demanded a tremendous amount of gold to have it made. If you can locate the quill and return it to me, something Vald was too stupid to do himself, I'll consider the debt satisfied."'' While her offer is more than generous for her usual standards, you can still ask her what the Quill of Gemination was supposed to do: ''"The quill was supposed to allow me to duplicate any writing I'm viewing in exacting detail. I'm sure you can understand how useful that would prove in a business situation, especially where signatures were involved."'' She will also explain that the Quill was personalized: ''"Fortunately, the quill required an ink with a unique formula known only to myself. So if you're getting any ideas about selling it to someone else or keeping it, you'll find it would hold little value."'' As you will have to receive the quill to get Vald out of his debt, you can ask Maven how it ended up in [[Skyrim:Lake Honrich|Lake Honrich]]: ''"I had Vald meet the caravan from Winterhold on the western end of the lake so he could avoid the roads. The idiot got lost in the mist and ran his boat right over some rocks, sending it straight to the bottom. He's too stupid to remember where he was, and any attempt I've made to find it in the past has been unsuccessful."'' She will then provide a hint: ''"Vald said his rowboat struck some rocks... I'd check under the water near one of the small islands in the lake. Perhaps you should start at the docks and work your way out towards Goldenglow Estate."''<br />
<br />
When found and located, return to Maven with the Quill of Gemination and she will say: ''"Really? I wrote that off a long time ago. Well, I suppose I need to fulfill my end of the bargain. Give this document to Vald. It frees him from the debt, but I never want to see him in Riften again."'' In the backyard of Riftweald Manor, Vald will be quite surprised to see his debt erased: ''"I can't believe it! How did ya' talk her into this? Never mind, I don't care. I'm just glad I don't gotta' work for Maven anymore. Here, ya' did me a favor, I guess I owe you one."'' He will then provide access to the backyard of the manor and disappear{{huh}} from the game.<br />
<br />
===Under New Management===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_05.jpg|thumb|right|''"We'll talk after this ridiculous ceremony."'']]<br />
Incidentally, this will be Maven's last active quest in the Thieves Guild questline, and it is never resolved whether or not she is happy with how things turned out. Seemingly, she is quite happy as she will make a surprise appearance much later, when you are finally honored for restoring the Thieves Guild during the quest [[Skyrim:Under New Management|Under New Management]]. If you haven't done the ceremony, Maven will tell you, ''"Not now, you idiot. We'll talk after this ridiculous ceremony."'' If you are about to talk to Brynjolf or have done so, Maven will also say, ''"I suppose congratulations are in order. Now don't screw it up."''<br />
<br />
===The Raid===<br />
After you have helped rid [[Skyrim:Wujeeta|Wujeeta]] of her [[Skyrim:Skooma|skooma]] addiction during [[Skyrim:Helping Hand|Helping Hand]], you will receive an objective to find the skooma dealer in Riften. When asked, Wujeeta will admit getting the drug from one [[Skyrim:Sarthis_Idren|Sarthis Idren]] at [[Skyrim:Riften Warehouse|Riften Warehouse]]. The warehouse is locked around the clock, but Wujeeta will point you towards the current jarl for the key. If Maven has been appointed jarl, you will have to deal with her to get the key. When you tell her you found a skooma dealer in Riften, she names him right away: ''"Ah yes, Sarthis... a thorn in my side for the last few years. I've tried repeatedly to eradicate that meddler, but he has ears within the city guard. Gives us the slip every time we raid the warehouse. However, if you'd wish to eliminate that burden for me... well, let's just say it would go a long way with earning my favor."'' If you reject her, she will get angry: ''"Let me give you a word of advice. Think about your choices carefully from now on. You'll go much farther in Riften with me on your side."'' If you accept, she will hand you the [[Skyrim:Riften Warehouse Key|warehouse key]] with the words: ''"Good. Here, take the key to the warehouse. Pay dear old Sarthis a visit and tell him Maven sends her regards, would you?"'' Obviously, Sarthis will not survive your visit, and the [[Skyrim:Shipment's Ready|evidence]] you find in the warehouse will start the next quest, [[Skyrim:Supply and Demand|Supply and Demand]].<br />
<br />
===Supply and Demand===<br />
When you report back to Maven, she will state: ''"Results speak volumes over words and you've just proved it. Did you happen to discover where the fetcher was getting his skooma from?"'' When you tell her they are at [[Skyrim:Cragslane Cavern|Cragslane Cavern]] she will not hesitate with a death warrant on the persons responsible: ''"Then I want you to head out there immediately and eliminate all of them. I can't afford to have another Sarthis blunder into Riften because they think we're too lazy to disrupt their pitiful operation. Do this task for me and you'll be well on your way to a title in Riften."'' If you reject, she will get angry again: ''"I'm very disappointed. I'd advise you to rethink that decision soon."'' If you accept she will just send you on your way with: ''"Good. Make sure not one of them escapes alive."'' Once you have cleared Cragslane Cavern, a return to Maven will make her say: ''"I'll send my men to secure any of the remaining goods you left behind. We can't have that substance falling into the wrong hands now, can we? Here, this should suffice as your cut of the... or rather, a reward for your actions. Now, if you'll excuse me..."'' This opens up for the final quest with Maven as jarl, specifically [[Skyrim:I Done Got Thaned!|I Done Got Thaned!]]<br />
<br />
===I Done Got Thaned!===<br />
After [[Skyrim:The Raid|The Raid]] and [[Skyrim:Supply and Demand|Supply and Demand]], Maven will finally be willing to name you Thane of the Rift. You can ask her if there is anything else you can do for Riften and she will answer: ''"So, I've been hearing your name in court quite a bit lately. I've been informed by my steward that you've made quite an impression in the Rift; the people won't stop blathering about you."'' She will then tell you what the blathering is about: ''"Oh don't pretend to be modest. I'm talking about your new role as champion. Apparently, you've taken my people under your wing. If you think you can steal my throne by winning the hearts of the people, that's where you're wrong. Keep that in mind. However, since it wouldn't behoove me to make you disappear, I'd rather have you on my side as Thane of Riften."'' When you accept the offer, her response depends on whether or not you have purchased a house in Riften. If you own a house, she will say: ''"You damn well better. I've checked with my court and apparently you're fully eligible... there's nothing standing in the way of presenting you the title."'' If not, she will instead point you towards Hemming: ''"Not so fast, there's a matter of residence to be discussed. In order to have the title bestowed upon you, you need to purchase a house within Riften. And by the Eight, aren't you fortunate that my steward has just the place for you to buy. After the place is yours, come back to me and we'll deal with the rest of the nonsense."'' When you have purchased a house, she will tell you: ''"I expect that you'll distance yourself from the affairs of state. In other words, keep your nose out of my business and we'll do just fine. Just remember that you're only a part of my court, this doesn't make you one of the family. I guess all that's left is to bestow the title. What were those words again? Doesn't matter... the title is yours. I henceforth name you Thane of Riften. Don't disappoint me."''<br />
<br />
===Promises to Keep===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Louis_Letrush_03.jpg|thumb|left|[[Skyrim:Louis Letrush|Louis Letrush]]]]<br />
In addition to keeping the Thieves Guild and the Black-Briar Meadery in check, Maven will also face problems with an old accomplice, specifically [[Skyrim:Louis Letrush|Louis Letrush]] who can be found at the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]]. Not surprisingly, the imprisoned [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi Black-Briar]] has unfinished business and Louis will ask you for help, saying: ''"Looking for work? I need someone to deliver a message to Sibbi Black-Briar."'' When asked about the message he will explain his problem: ''"Ah, well, I recently approached Sibbi Black-Briar about buying [[Skyrim:Frost|Frost]], one of the finest breeding horses in Skyrim. He agreed to sell. I paid Sibbi half the cost of Frost up front, but before he could deliver, Maven had him locked up. Sibbi believes this exempts him from our deal. It does not. I want you to talk to Sibbi for me. Then, I want you to bring me Frost and the Lineage Papers that prove the horse's worth."'' You can then ask him to elaborate on a few things. When asked about why Sibbi is in jail, he will respond: ''"No idea, but whatever he did it must have angered Maven. No guard would lock up a Black-Briar without the old lady's permission."''<br />
<br />
When you approach Sibbi Black-Briar in his luxurious cell in Riften Jail and tell him Letrush sent you, he will respond: ''"Ah, and let me guess. He wants his horse. Well, that's going to be a bit of a problem. You see, I don't really outright 'own' Frost..."'' When you ask him if he doesn't even own the horse, he will concur: ''"That is correct. You see, Frost belongs to the Black-Briar estate. Technically everything in the estate is owned by my mother, Maven. My plan was to take the horse from our lodge and deliver it to Letrush at the stables. Obviously, that didn't exactly work out as I'd planned... Still, I don't want to cross Letrush. Tell you what. Steal the horse and deliver it, and you can have the second half of the payment."'' At this point you can attempt to persuade him. If you fail, he will comment: ''"Nice try, but my mother's already got me in jail. Maybe you should try that one on Letrush."'' If you succeed he will offer you a [[Skyrim:Sibbi's Stash Key|key to a stash of gold]]: ''"Sure - take advantage of the guy in jail. Okay, fine. I can make the deal sweeter. I obviously don't have anything here, but... there's a hidden stash in the Lodge. And I did manage to hold on to the key... Take it."'' Lastly, you can just accept his offer and he will say: ''"Then I think we're done talking."'' However, you can still ask him what the logic of stealing Maven's horse is: ''"I'm not stealing anything. Besides, some jail time isn't going to make me roll over and play dead."'' Lastly, you can seek advice from the leaders of the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]], but to no avail. [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] will say: ''"So Sibbi finally got the nerve to bare his teeth, eh? Look, this sounds like a family matter and I don't want the Guild in the middle of it. You do what you want. Just don't expect us to at your back when Maven has your head on the executioner's block."'', while [[Skyrim:Delvin Mallory|Delvin Mallory]] will say: ''"Guess I should have known. Maven and Sibbi have been at odds ever since she had him tossed into jail. Look, if I were you, I'd proceed carefully. Crossin' Maven is one of the first things you learn not to do when you're down here. As far as the Guild's concerned this is between Sibbi and Maven, so we're going to officially stay out of it."''<br />
<br />
At this point, you can choose to double-cross both Sibbi and Louis and go directly to Maven and tell her what is happening behind her back (note that this course of action will cause a slight [[Skyrim:Promises to Keep#Bugs|bug]]). When confronted with the plot to steal Frost, Maven will say: ''"Don't tell me - Sibbi and Louis Letrush? Well, Sibbi is in jail and Letrush is certainly welcome to try. My hired help is more than a match for him."'' When you tell her that Louis wants you to steal the horse, she will respond: ''"Really? Now that is interesting... Then you should know that Louis and I have a certain... history. Tell you what. Go along with his plans for now. I'll keep an eye on you both and, when the time is right, I'll settle accounts with Louis."'' This will not affect the quest, and you will still have to meet up with Louis Letrush in the forest after stealing Frost. You can then negotiate with him. The option about telling Maven is available regardless of your earlier choices:<br />
<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!width=30%|Option<br />
!colspan=4|Dialogue<br />
|-<br />
| I'm going to Maven unless I leave here with Frost. '''(Persuade)'''||colspan=4|'''Passed''': ''"You're playing a dangerous game, my friend. Fine, you win. Take the horse and leave."''<br>'''Failed''': ''"And telling her what? That you stole her horse? I don't think so."''<br />
|-<br />
| If you were dead, I could keep the horse... '''(Intimidate)'''||colspan=4|'''Passed''': ''"Now wait a minute... No need to do anything drastic. Look, Keep the horse, all right? Then we all walk away happy..."''<br>'''Failed''': ''"Well ain't that the truth of it. All right, then. Let's see what you've got!"''<br />
|-<br />
| Speaking of my pay...'''||colspan=4|''"Yes, yes. Here it is. I think I'd best be off now."''<br />
|}<br />
Regardless of your choice, and even if he ends up threatening you, he will never attack.<br />
<br />
===Diplomatic Immunity===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_04.jpg|thumb|right|''"I do respect power, and the Thalmor have that."'']]<br />
During the quest [[Skyrim:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], Maven will quite often be found at [[Skyrim:Elenwen|Elenwen]]'s part at the [[Skyrim:Thalmor Embassy|Thalmor Embassy]], drifting around and chatting with the other guests. When you approach her she will be surprised: ''"I don't recall seeing you at one of these before. And I know everyone who's anyone in Skyrim."'' She will then point towards [[Skyrim:Razelan|Razelan]], stating: ''"See that disgusting drunk over there? A high-ranking official in the East Empire Company, believe it or not."'' If [[Skyrim:General Tullius|General Tullius]] is at the party as well, she will comment: ''"That's General Tullius himself. He can't stand Elenwen, but she insists that he attend these parties. Just to piss him off, no doubt."'' Your dialogue options with her depend on whether or not you have completed the quest [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. If you have yet to complete it, you will have two options:<br><br />
'''What brings you to this party?''' ''"To maintain relationships. By the way, I don't know who you are, but unless you want me to blow your cover, I'd advise that you avoid me for the rest of the party."''<br><br />
'''What's your relationship with the Thalmor?''' "''We have a relationship of mutual respect. I care little about the politics and rivalries between the Thalmor and the Empire. But I do respect power, and the Thalmor have that. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone."''<br />
<br />
'''I didn't know you had dealings with the Thalmor.''' ''"Have you learned nothing about me? I have dealings with everyone. Now, leave me. I don't want to arouse suspicion by talking to someone that clearly doesn't belong here."''<br><br />
'''Are you here on guild business?''' ''"Don't mention the Guild. In fact, it's better if you don't speak to me at all. This is not the place."''<br />
<br />
You were supposed to ask her to cause a distraction. However, none of Maven's quests will raise her disposition accordingly, so the option never becomes available. Click the show/hide button to the right to see the missing dialogue.<br />
{{Showhide/Start|Maven Distraction →}}<br />
'''I need your help with something.''' ''"I'm listening."''<br><br />
'''I need you to cause a scene. Get everyone's attention for a few minutes.''' ''"I don't even want to know, do I? But for you... all right. I'll do it."'' '''OR''' ''"You've got a lot of nerve, suggesting something like that, to me of all people! If this was Riften, I'd have you thrown in the dungeon!"''<br />
<br />
I'm doing as you asked. Not for nothing, I hope?<br />
<br />
'''Maven Black-Briar''': ''"You've got a lot of nerve, suggesting something like that, to me of all people! If this was Riften, I'd have you thrown in the dungeon!"''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"What? I didn't... hmm? No, listen, you must have misunderstood... I don't mean to say I wouldn't be interested... what I mean is..."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You're a disgrace to the Empire. To think that you're actually a representative of the East Empire Company. When people talk about the decadent, tottering Empire, it's people like you they have in mind!"''<br><br />
'''Elenwen''': ''"Razalan. And you promised to behave yourself this time. Remove him. He's disturbing the other guests."''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"I protest! This is an insult to the dignity of my person! This time I'm completely innocent! / This is preposterous. Disrespect... insulting! I am tired of being hounded from all sides! / Madame Ambassador, you know that I would never have behaved... that is to say... well I swear I'm innocent this time!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Well, now. There's no need to ruin the party on my account. I don't think he'll be bothering me again."''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"Absolutely not! I protest... uh, that is, yes, of course. I still don't understand what just... oh never mind. / That is absolutely untrue! Uh, that is, yes, of course. What... I don't understand why everyone... never mind."''<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
<br />
==Rumors and Other Dialogue==<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
<br />
===The Black-Briars===<br />
The Black-Briar family is well-known all over the Rift, mainly due to their questionable reputation and Maven's habit of stomping all over every obstacle. This not only includes her business relations and employers, it also includes her own family, as testified by the imprisonment of [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi Black-Briar]], who dared to anger Maven and ended up in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]]. [[Skyrim:Hemming Black-Briar|Hemming Black-Briar]] merely spends all of his time inside Black-Briar Manor, waiting to take over the family business, while [[Skyrim:Ingun Black-Briar|Ingun Black-Briar]] hates the family business and has ambitions of becoming an alchemist, much to Maven's regret.<br />
<br />
====Ingun Black-Briar====<br />
Ingun works as an apprentice for [[Skyrim:Elgrim|Elgrim]] at [[Skyrim:Elgrim's Elixirs|Elgrim's Elixirs]] and dreams of becoming an alchemist. She rarely talks about anything but ingredients, although you can ask her about her family: ''"Hmph. My family. All that wealth and they squander it on foolish ventures and political schemes. I was meant for so much more than all of this... I wish to pledge my life and ply my talents in darker circles. If only my mother would let me, I would make her proud."'' Maven, however, thinks little of her efforts to make her proud and will instead treat her to her usual methods:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Ingun, how much longer do you intend to waste your life concocting your foolish little potions?"''<br><br />
'''Ingun''': ''"I've told you, my interest in the family business is quite low. I wish to be much more than just a merchant."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Your interests lay where I wish them to lay otherwise my favorite daughter may end up homeless and without a septim to her name. Is that clear?"''<br><br />
'''Ingun''': ''"Yes, mother."''<br />
<br />
====Sibbi Black-Briar====<br />
Sibbi Black-Briar is currently imprisoned in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]] for the murder of his girlfriend's brother, Wulfur; not because he was caught by the guards, but because Maven ordered it: ''"Mother thought I should be taught a lesson for airing the family's dirty laundry in public. I mean, I've... taken care of many people for her in the past. What in Oblivion did she expect me to do? Ah well. At least I have all the comforts of home during my stay. Well, except the touch of a woman of course."'' When talking about the family, Sibbi will proudly explain: ''"When speaking of the Black-Briars, only one thought should spring to mind. We are not to be trifled with. Help us, you end up rich. Cross us and you'll end up a memory. Is that enough information for you?"'' You will have to deal with both Sibbi and Maven during the quest [[Skyrim:Promises to Keep|Promises to Keep]]; please see [[#Promises to Keep|this section]] for details.<br />
<br />
====Hemming Black-Briar====<br />
Hemming is seemingly the quiet family member and will mostly brag about his skills as a warrior. However, he will also mention how his mother favors him: ''"My mother spares no expense where I'm concerned. I'm heir to the family fortune after all."'' He will also reveal his ambitions for the Black-Briar Meadery: ''"Once I'm in charge I have bigger aspirations than just Skyrim. I plan to bring Black-Briar Mead to all of Tamriel."'' He will then tell you: ''"My children, Sibbi and Ingun, are being groomed to run the family business one day as well."'' Lastly, he will describe Sibbi and Ingun: ''"Sibbi will prove to be a fine leader one day, but Ingun... that girl has her mind somewhere other than business."'' He will then tell you how Maven feels about Ingun: ''"Maven's disappointed that Ingun's heart isn't in the family business, but she says 'Ingun still has her uses.' Not sure what that means."'' However, Hemming is deeply involved with most of the illegal operations supervised by Maven, as evident by their conversations at the Bee and Barb:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_11.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, I want you to personally supervise the next shipment."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"We already have people that do that and they make quite a bit of coin for it."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't trust them. Come to think of it, I don't trust you either, but at least you're family."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Anything you say, Mother."''<br />
<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"[[Skyrim:Bersi Honey-Hand|Bersi]] still refuses to cooperate. What did you want to do?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I've known Bersi a long time. Even before he opened that rubbish heap he calls a [[Skyrim:Pawned Prawn|shop]]."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"And if he still refuses?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Then put the thumbscrews on him and hit him... hard."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, I need you to bring a note to Sibbi. I need him to do something for me."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Sibbi? He's in prison... you put him there."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I know that! I can promise you when he's ready, he'll find the cell door unlocked."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Why do you tolerate him, mother? All he contributes to this family is embarrassment and disgrace."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I tolerate your son because he'll do anything I ask, without question. I'd expect the same from my own son."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"I understand, mother. Forgive me."''<br />
<br />
Hemming is not late to use the family name to his advantage. He may engage in conversation with Bee and Barb servant [[Skyrim:Talen-Jei|Talen-Jei]]:<br />
<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"So, Talen. Have you reconsidered my offer?"''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Sorry Hemming, I've no interest in becoming your valet."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"What's the matter, I thought you people were used to indentured servitude."''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Xhuth! Black-Briar or not, say that again and so help me you're going to need more than your mother to protect you from me."''<br />
<br />
If you manage to conquer the Rift for the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]], or give it to the Legion as part of [[Skyrim:Season Unending|Season Unending]], [[Skyrim:General Tullius|General Tullis]] will say: ''"Riften will be handed over to Imperial control. Jarl Laila Law-Giver will step down, and Maven Black-Briar will become the Jarl of Riften."'' Maven will move into Mistveil Keep and bring Hemming along as housecarl, effectively leaving Ingun alone in Riftweald Manor. After the promotion, Hemming becomes considerably more talkative and will readily tell you about the Black-Briar family: ''"The Black-Briars have been instrumental in keeping Riften on the map. Before the meadery was opened almost fifty years ago, this town was nothing... a simple waypoint for those journeying on to Morrowind. Now, thanks to my mother's generosity, this city is making its mark."'' If you exit conversation he will remind you: ''"You'd do well to remember who's in charge around here."'' He will also mention Maven when talking about his new position as steward: ''"I'm not certain what business it is of yours, but I'm moth... I mean Jarl Maven's steward. I run the prisons in Riften, keep the riff-raff from robbing the good folk of this city and have drunks tossed into the lake."'' He will also comment of the defense of Riften: ''"Defense? No one would dare attack Riften. I'm not sure you realize just how well connected Jarl Maven is with the Empire. With a single snap of her fingers, we could have a legion here in a fortnight."'' Three options will then be available:<br />
<br />
'''That's impressive.''' ''"Indeed. You don't get to the position my mother's achieved by blind luck... her business sense and diplomatic skills are legendary."''<br><br />
'''Interesting.''' ''"If you say so."''<br><br />
'''I think you're exaggerating.''' ''"I don't care what you think. The Empire put Maven on the throne for a reason. That's all you need to know."''<br />
<br />
As jarl, Maven will occasionally talk to her steward about ruling Riften:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_10.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"There's still the matter of the prisoner to discuss. Now, his family is willing to contribute handsomely if we release him."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"The execution will proceed as planned."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"But, mother... this is quite a sizable contribution and the crime doesn't befit such a harsh punishment."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Are you going soft on me, Hemming? Perhaps I made the wrong choice installing you as steward."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"No, mother. The execution will proceed as planned."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, have you dispatched that letter I gave you yesterday?"''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Yes, and I sent it with our fastest courier and under the cover of night, exactly as you specified."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Good. If I need to light a few fires in order to get what we need to defend this place from the Stormcloaks, so be it."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"I'm almost certain he'll reach the Imperial City tomorrow, so we should have an answer by the end of the week."''<br />
<br />
====Maul====<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maul_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"Last thing the Black-Briars need is some stranger stickin' their nose where it doesn't belong."'']]<br />
Maul is not a Black-Briar by blood, but is the brute watching the back of Maven and her family, as well as making sure to warn strangers to stay out of the Black-Briars' business. If Maven is appointed jarl, Maul will become her new [[Skyrim:Housecarl|housecarl]] and will move into Mistveil Keep with her and Hemming, so his ties and loyalty to the Black-Briars are strong enough to make him part of the family. The first time you visit Riften, Maul will be watching the main gate for strangers and will immediately seek you out: ''"I don't know you. You in Riften lookin' for trouble?"'' If you just exit conversation he will get angry: ''"You can pretend not to hear me all you want... but you better stay out of the Black-Briars' business."'' If you continue, three options will be available to you, each followed by a warning from Maul.<br />
<br />
'''Just passing through.''' ''"Yeah? Well, I got news for you; there's nothing to see here. Last thing the Black-Briars need is some stranger stickin' their nose where it doesn't belong."''<br><br />
'''What's it to you?''' ''"Don't say something you'll regret. Last thing the Black-Briars need is some loudmouth tryin' to meddle in their affairs."''<br><br />
'''I'm not scared of you.''' ''"That's the wrong answer. Last thing the Black-Briars need around here is some troublemaker tryin' to steal a piece of the action."''<br />
<br />
He will then elaborate on the Black-Briars and himself: ''"The Black-Briars have Riften in their pocket and the Thieves Guild watchin' their back, so keep your nose out of their business. Me? I'm Maul. I watch the streets for 'em. If you need dirt on anythin', I'm your guy... but it'll cost you."'' If you try and exit conversation, Maul will get angry, saying: ''"Hey, you. Get over here, I want to talk to you."'', or ''"Yeah, walk away like a good doggie. Just stay out of the Black-Briars' business and maybe we'll give you a bone."'' and will not talk to you anymore, simply dismissing you, repeating: ''"Stay out of the Black-Briars' business and you'll live longer."'' If you choose to stay in conversation you will have to pass a [[Skyrim:Persuade|persuasion]] check. Note that you will need a [[Skyrim:Speech|Speech]] skill of at least 25 to persuade him. When successfully persuaded, Maul will be willing to share some facts about the infamous family: ''"Well, you got Maven, she pretty much runs the whole operation. She's got friends in high places if you know what I mean. She's also got ties to the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] and the Thieves Guild, so basically no one can touch her. Just remember, if she tells you to do somethin'... you damn well better do exactly what she says."'' If you ask if he knows anything about the Thieves Guild, he'll reply: ''"You kiddin'? My brother Dirge works in their hideout. I used to run with them myself, but took a job with Maven after they started hittin' a rough patch. If you want to get in on that action, find [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] in the marketplace. I'm sure he could use someone like you."''<br />
<br />
When he moves into Mistveil Keep, Maul will be a bit more talkative and you can ask him what he thinks of the [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]]: ''"Hey, if the Empire and the Stormcloaks want to kill each other over some foolish cause, I say let 'em. All I care about is two things: watchin' Maven's back and countin' the gold she pays me to do it."'' He will also share his interpretation on his new job as housecarl: ''"As long as she continues to keep me at her side, she can count on my blade to protect her. To be honest, I doubt someone would be stupid enough to make an attempt on Maven... sorry, Jarl Maven's life. But just in case, I'll be ready for them."''<br />
<br />
In Mistveil Keep, Maul will still take care of Maven's business, both official and unofficial:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Any word about our little problem in the Ratway?"''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"I've spoken to Brynjolf and he assures me it'll be taken care of."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Next time you speak to him, tell him to clean up his own messes. I'm not about to jeopardize this position for a bunch of low-life thugs."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"I'll let him know."''<br />
<br />
'''Maul''': ''"My agents are telling me that we've appropriated the caravan from [[Lore:Hammerfell|Hammerfell]]... with minimal losses."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"For what it's costing me, I should be handed the merchandise on a silver platter."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"The coin isn't just for the men, there's a lot of people that need to be compensated in order to make this happen."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"And a hefty cut for yourself too I'm sure. Just see to it the items are secured and the rest disposed of properly this time."''<br />
<br />
Maul will occasionally approach Hemming and ask him about Maven's newfound power.<br />
<br />
'''Maul''': ''"Your mother seems to have taken to her seat quite well."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Yes, she's been grooming herself for this for quite a long time."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"It's surprising the Council is allowing a Nord rule Riften under the Imperial flag. That can't be their first choice."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Let's just say my mother knows which pockets to line and keep it at that."''<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
===The Townsfolk===<br />
Maven Black-Briar is known all over Riften and the majority of the townsfolk have an opinion on the influential family, for better or worse. [[Skyrim:Sigaar|Sigaar]], the carriage driver stationed near [[Skyrim:Riften Stables|Riften Stables]], will talk about them saying: ''"You can get a room at the Bee and Barb, but mind your coin purse -- it's no secret the Thieves' Guild makes its home here. Oh, and if you meet Maven Black-Briar, stay on her good side. This is her city, and nobody else's."'' When you have gained access to Riften, you will meet [[Skyrim:Mjoll the Lioness|Mjoll the Lioness]] and her faithful follower [[Skyrim:Aerin|Aerin]] engaged in conversation about the overly corrupt city:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Mjoll_the_Lioness_06.jpg|thumb|right|''"Be careful, Mjoll. The Thieves Guild has Maven Black-Briar at her back."'']]<br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"I had another run-in with the Thieves Guild."''<br><br />
'''Aerin''': ''"Be careful, Mjoll. The Thieves Guild has [[Skyrim:Maven Black-Briar|Maven Black-Briar]] at her back. One snap of her fingers, and you could end up in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]]... or worse."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"They represent the reason I'm here. I can't just ignore them, Aerin."''<br><br />
'''Aerin''': ''"I know. I just don't want you to leave; you're the only good thing that's happened to this city in a long time."''<br />
<br />
When you talk to Mjoll, she will readily tell you about the decaying city, and the Black-Briar family: ''"Maven Black-Briar, the matriarch of the family, represents everything that's wrong with this city. She's bribed countless officials, has friends back in the Imperial City and freely associates with the Thieves Guild. I've tried everything I can to protect Riften's citizens from her family, but to no avail."'' She will also tell you about the rest of the family: ''"Well, there's Ingun Black-Briar, Maven's daughter. Strange girl. She likes to spend time down in Elgrim's Elixirs working on her alchemy. Then you have Hemming, Maven's son; spoiled brat and heir to her empire. He follows her word like a loyal dog follows its master. And finally, Sibbi; the worst of all of them. He's in Riften Jail for murder."'' The welcome committee continues with Maven's right hand, [[Skyrim:Maul|Maul]] (see [[#Maul|this section]] for details), who will warn you about meddling in the affairs of the Black-Briars. In Mistveil Keep, reigning Jarl [[Skyrim:Laila Law-Giver|Laila Law-Giver]] has seemingly been manipulated into believing that Maven has nothing to do with the Thieves Guild, saying: ''"We're all eager to see them brought to justice. Maven Black-Briar has assured me that they're being dealt with appropriately. As one of our city's most influential citizens, {{sic|she's has|description=wording}} taken it upon herself to oversee their incarceration. Sadly, they're proving elusive but I have confidence that Maven won't give up until this city has been rid of them all."'' Incidentally, her steward [[Skyrim:Anuriel|Anuriel]] thinks it is more than a question of simple manipulation, as she will tell you: ''"Lately I've had my hands full suppressing these ridiculous accusations of corruption in the keep."'' She will then elaborate: ''"There are those that believe the Jarl does nothing for this city... that it's corrupt and run by the Black-Briar family. I can assure you that this is entirely false. We are fully in control of everything."'' However, a visit from Maven proves her wrong:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_06.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Laila''': ''"Maven! Always a pleasure to receive you. What can I help you with today?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Thank you, Laila. I wanted to discuss the protection of my shipments. I'm certain you're aware of the loss I sustained a fortnight ago."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"Yes, indeed. An entire caravan shipment of your mead taken by Imperial soldiers. What of it?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Well, I'm also certain you're aware that our own city guard failed to provide the protection required to ensure safe passage of the shipment."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"Indeed. We lost three soldiers in that attack. A sad day for Riften."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Quite. To be brief, I need compensation for the lost shipment. Since Riften was responsible for it, Riften should pay for it. I have payments to make you realize. If I can't make them, I can't make Black-Briar Mead."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"We... don't have enough to..."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Laila, Riften is my home, but if my meadery can't be safe here, I'll just move it elsewhere."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"No, that won't be necessary. You'll have compensation for your loss."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Thank you, Laila."''<br />
<br />
Another conversation between Laila Law-Giver and Anuriel hints at how much power Maven has:<br />
<br />
'''Anuriel''': ''"My lady, Maven Black-Briar has sent word that she requires your seal in order to expand her shipments into Morrowind."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"But of course! Tell her she'll have it. Maven is one of the few people I can trust and I'd be delighted to give her my blessing."''<br><br />
'''Anuriel''': ''"Yes, my lady. I will pass the good news on to her."''<br />
<br />
Below Mistveil Keep, in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]], where Sibbi Black-Briar is currently imprisoned to teach him some manners, sits another prisoner, [[Skyrim:Molgrom Twice-Killed|Molgrom Twice-Killed]] who suffers the same punishment as Sibbi, simply for crossing the Black-Briar family. You can ask him why he is in prison, and he'll reply, ''"Because big, bad Brynjolf doesn't like the way I play thief. Look, he says we needed coin, so I got coin. Who cares if people got hurt? Blood washes off septims. Now I'm sitting in here counting skeever droppings while he's drinking Black-Briar mead with Maven."'' Should he be asked if prison is a Guild punishment, Molgrom will tell you about Maven's relations and how she gains unofficial authority from it: ''"Hey, if you're in good with Maven you've pretty much got it made. She's got friends in high places, and I don't just mean in Skyrim. So getting the guards to throw me in here as a 'punishment' was about as easy as falling off a log."''<br />
<br />
Each and every day, Maven will pay a visit to the many merchants in the marketplace, seemingly to remind all of them who is in charge of Riften:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_08.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Madesi''': ''"Lady Maven, how may I help you?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Is it true that you refused to sell one of your... trinkets to Hemming?"''<br><br />
'''Madesi''': ''"Please, milady, it was only because he threatened me. He said he'd have me thrown in the prisons if I didn't give him what he wanted! I can't afford to just give my jewelry away!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Next time a Black-Briar asks for something, I suggest you respond quickly and affirmatively."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_07.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Haelga, I like you, so I'm only going to say this one time. If you ever try and 'practice the [[Lore:Dibella|Dibellan]] arts' with Hemming again, I'll make sure that pretty little face loses its beauty."''<br><br />
'''Haelga''': ''"He wasn't protesting, Maven."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Of course he wasn't you stupid whore; he's a man. Now I'm not going to warn you again. Is that clear?"''<br><br />
'''Haelga''': ''"Very well."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't like being made a fool of, Brand-Shei. Not one bit."''<br><br />
'''Brand-Shei''': ''"Maven, please. I didn't know it was your man. Had I known, I would have looked the other way, I swear."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Turning him in to the guards? Have you joined Mjoll as official peacekeepers of Riften? You cost me a lot of coin."''<br><br />
'''Brand-Shei''': ''"Maven, I... please, don't hurt me."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_09.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"Maven. How's the criminal underworld treating you this fine day?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You may have everyone else impressed around here, but you don't impress me. You couldn't touch me if you wanted to."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"You're a cold, unfeeling bitch."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"My dear, you have no idea who you're trifling with. Now I suggest you turn around and rattle someone else's cage before you get hurt."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"I'm watching you, Maven Black-Briar. One day, you'll slip up and your Imperial friends won't be there to catch your fall."''<br />
<br />
'''Marise''': ''"Oh! Miss Maven. What can I do for you?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Relax, Marise... I have no quarrel with you. I just wish to speak a moment."''<br><br />
'''Marise''': ''"Yes?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You watch the market, you hear the rumors around Riften. What have you heard about these dragons?"''<br><br />
'''Marise''': ''"I heard a traveler say that Helgen was destroyed by one of those creatures. Didn't leave a soul alive they said."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Interesting. Keep your ears open for me and tell me if you hear anything more. I'll make it worth your while."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Grelka, how fast can you get your hands on some longbows?"''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"I don't usually deal in weapons, but I know someone who can get them for me. You mind paying a little extra to get them fast?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't care what it costs. I need four longbows and four score of arrows. Just make it happen."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"I'll contact my man tonight and let you know what he says."''<br />
<br />
At the Bee and Barb, Maven will often dine with [[Skyrim:Vulwulf Snow-Shod|Vulwulf Snow-Shod]]:<br />
<br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"Maven! So good to see you again. Hoist a flagon and celebrate with me!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Vulwulf, it's always a pleasure. When you're standing downwind of me."''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"Sorry, what was that?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Nothing Vulwulf.... cheers."''<br />
<br />
She will also try to persuade him to fund a shipment:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"I'm telling you, Vulwulf, it's the investment you've been waiting for."''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"So I pay for the weapon shipments and you oversee their distribution to the [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloaks]]?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Exactly. What better way to help the cause than to put weapons into the hands of young Nord warriors dying for their homeland?"''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"[[Lore:Shor|Shor's]] Beard! You're right! I'll do it... provided you supervise the shipments personally."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Don't worry, I'll treat those shipments as if I owned them myself."''<br />
<br />
Her aggressive behavior leads to even more talk behind her back, specifically during the conversations of the citizens in everyday life.<br />
<br />
'''Drifa''': ''"Mjoll! I'm glad I found you."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"What is it, Drifa? What's the matter?"''<br><br />
'''Drifa''': ''"It's Bersi. He's getting so angry about the corruption in Riften, he said he's going to walk right up to Maven and give her a piece of his mind."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"If I see him, I'll make sure he doesn't do anything brash. Don't worry."''<br />
<br />
'''Dinya''': ''"Good day, Grelka."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"What's so good about it? I've got deadbeats who don't pay me, the city guard looking over my shoulder and Maven Black-Briar breathing down my neck."''<br><br />
'''Dinya''': ''"You poor thing. You should come by the temple, speak to Maramal."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"Religion isn't going to save me. So unless Mara is going to start raining coin from the heavens, why don't you mind your own business."''<br />
<br />
Also, if Maven is appointed jarl, the confused court wizard [[Skyrim:Wylandriah|Wylandriah]] will face more problems than ever before:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Why are the potions I requested not completed?"''<br><br />
'''Wylandriah''': ''"I'm sorry, milady. The components for those elixirs are quite volatile and in some cases, very dangerous to handle. I must take care."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Excuses are not acceptable in my court. When I ask for something I expect results, and I expect them immediately."''<br><br />
'''Wylandriah''': ''"Yes, milady. Sorry, {{sic|milday|milady}}. They will be completed."''<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
===The Black-Briar Meadery===<br />
The [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]] is the main attraction in Riften, and [[#Hemming Black-Briar|according]] to Hemming Black-Briar, the business that put Riften back on the map, as it brings income and employment to the otherwise corrupt and decaying town. [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Mead|Black-Briar Mead]], and the slightly more luxurious [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Reserve|Black-Briar Reserve]], is brewed and bottled at the meadery and distributed to thirsty customers in taverns all over Skyrim, along with the neighboring island of [[Dragonborn:Solstheim|Solstheim]]. (Skyrim citizens comments)<br />
<br />
The Black-Briar Meadery is the brainchild of Maven Black-Briar, and provides the majority of her income, so she will spare no expense and, in case she is rejected, use all the dirty tricks in the book to wipe out competition, as evident during [[#Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. Not surprisingly, the Riften citizens down an awful lot of Black-Briar Mead, although the quality of the brew is questionable at best. (Riften citizens comments)<br />
<br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Keerava, we're running low on Black-Briar Mead."''<br><br />
'''Keerava''': ''"If only Maven would stop raising the price on it maybe I could afford to stock more cases."''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"We could always look for another brand."''<br><br />
'''Keerava''': ''"That isn't an option. Maven sees me serve a competitor's brand here and we may as well dig our own graves."''<br />
<br />
If you stumble upon the tragedy-ridden [[Skyrim:Asgeir Snow-Shod|Asgeir Snow-Shod]], he will tell you that even Maven had to start somewhere when she wanted the Meadery up and running. Asgeir is in mourning due to his sister Lilija's death and will, after telling you about the tragedy, finish with: ''"Anyway, I'm glad my work at the Black-Briar Meadery keeps me busy. Helps me keep my mind off of things."'' When asked if he is involved with the meadery he will tell you: ''"Yes, actually. I'm partnered with Maven Black-Briar. I put up a chunk of the gold she needed to get the place off the ground. We've been staggeringly successful so far. In fact, I'm almost surprised how quickly she's generated business for us. My name may not be on the label, but some of my blood, sweat and tears are in every drop. Uh, figuratively of course."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Ungrien_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"She's an absolute pleasure to work for!"'']]<br />
Inside the Meadery you will find an insecure [[Skyrim:Ungrien|Ungrien]] working the tasting counter, trying his very best to sell the mediocre brew with: ''"Welcome! Allow me to recommend the Black-Briar Mead... the purest brew in all of Skyrim! and We serve only the best here... Black-Briar Mead. May I get one for you?"'' When asked abot the quality of the mead, Ungrien will give you the full sales speech: ''"Lady Maven's been developing the secret recipe for Black-Briar Mead over the last several decades. She uses a very secret blend of spices, fresh honey from Goldenglow Estate and specially constructed aging casks to ensure the best flavor. Even when you get to the last sip in your flagon, it'll taste just as good as the first!"'' When you point out that his recommendation sounds rehearsed he will quickly break down: ''"Damn it! Sorry. I'm not very good at this. Look, just don't say anything to Maven, will you? I've spent weeks trying to get that right and if she sees how stupid I am, she'll get rid of me."'' When you tell him there are worse things than getting fired, he will hint: ''"Yeah... fired. Sure. That's what I meant."'' When asked about Maven, he will return to his rehearsed lines: ''"She's an absolute pleasure to work for! In fact, I almost feel guilty accepting pay from her. Why, just this last week I was commenting to my fellow meadery workers just how lucky we are to be working for such a charitable family."'' You can now either persuade, bribe, or choose to believe him; the latter will net you another obvious lie: ''"I thank my lucky stars every time I look to the night sky that Maven took me in and gave me this opportunity."'' A failed persuasion will make him say: ''"That is the truth, my friend! Maven is a saint and don't let anyone tell you otherwise."'' However, a successful persuasion or bribe will make him tell you the truth: ''"Okay, look. If I'm caught saying anything bad about the meadery or the family, I'm a dead man. I'm the fourth person to work the tasting counter in the last year. The last three are at the bottom of Lake Honrich. Just take my advice and just get out of Riften as soon as you can."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Ungrien_03.jpg|thumb|right|''"I can't take it anymore, Tythis."'']]<br />
'''Ungrien''': ''"I can't take it anymore, Tythis. Indaryn keeps pushing me around and I'm not even doing anything wrong."''<br><br />
'''Tythis''': ''"Maybe it's time you quit then."''<br><br />
'''Ungrien''': ''"And do what? Losing a job from the Black-Briar family would make me a marked man. No one would ever take me on anywhere else."''<br><br />
'''Tythis''': ''"Don't let it get you down. Indaryn will eventually tire of picking on you and move on to someone else."''<br />
<br />
A [[Skyrim:Attention Employees!|note]] on his desk also reveals that the employees in the meadery are subject to random searches due to missing mead barrels, written by brewmaster [[Skyrim:Indaryn|Indaryn]] on behalf of Maven. During opening hours, you will find Indaryn in the meadery as well, often overlooking the brewing vats and the employees. Several notes in the tasting room hint at him being a harsh leader, although a very specific [[Skyrim:Note From Maven|note from Maven]] reveals that Maven disapproves of him acting on her behalf. When asked if he runs the Black-Briar Meadery, he will explain: ''"Maven Black-Briar wants me to keep the mead flowing and that's what I aim to do despite all these lazy good-for-nothings that work for us. Ever since I took over as the foreman the production of our mead has never been more profitable. And if the meadery is profitable, I get rich. Get the picture?"'' He will also tell you about Maven: ''"Lady Maven could buy or sell anyone in Skyrim. I wouldn't be surprised if she's the one pulling the strings around this city. She's always welcome in Mistveil Keep and between you and me, I'm pretty sure she even has some pretty influential friends within the Empire. I'd also warn you not to cross her. She employs quite a few... troubleshooters to take care of messy problems."''<br />
<br />
Troubleshooters can be found in the Meadery staff as well, as [[Skyrim:Romlyn Dreth|Romlyn Dreth]] can be found working the vats, and will openly make you an offer for some cheap mead when you get close. When asked if he works at the meadery, he will respond: ''"Sure. How do you think I get my hands on the good stuff and offer it so cheap? You think old Maven is just giving it away to anyone? Good thing she makes so much money. Makes it easier for merchandise like this to fall through the cracks."'' When asked what he is selling, he will introduce his selection with: ''"Nothing but the best. Black-Briar Mead... fresh from the vat. Best of all, you don't have to pay the ridiculous prices Maven charges. So what do you say to that?"'' This undercover business is obviously reflected in the amount of mead going out of the meadery, and you can witness a suspicious Indaryn have this conversation with Romlyn:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Indaryn_03.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"Romlyn, I've been meaning to speak to you. I did a count at the meadery and we're four cases short... again."''<br><br />
'''Romlyn''': ''"What are you saying? You think I had something to do with that?"''<br><br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"I'm not accusing you of anything. Yet."''<br><br />
'''Romlyn''': ''"The Dreth family doesn't steal, Indaryn."''<br><br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"For your sake, I hope you're right. Because if it is you, and Maven finds out, the Dreth family is going to be one member smaller."''<br />
<br />
However, Romlyn will also ask you for a favor during the quest [[Skyrim:Under_the_Table|Under the Table]]. When asked if he is selling cheap mead, he will correct you: ''"No, no friend. You've got it all wrong. I'm not selling cheap mead. I'm selling good mead for cheap... Black-Briar Mead. I sell cases of it for half of what the inns and taverns pay through the Meadery. All I need is someone to deliver it for me. If anyone saw me leave Riften, they'd get suspicious."'' He will then tell you what needs to be done: ''"I need someone to take this small keg of Black-Briar Mead to Wilhelm at the Vilemyr Inn in Ivarstead. Drop it off and he'll trade you something for the delivery. Keep it as payment for the legwork. Oh, and if you bump into Indaryn from the meadery, keep your mouth shut. He'd rat us out in a second."'' While [[Skyrim:Wilhelm|Wilhelm]] will accept the keg and hand you some jewelry, you can also choose to tell Indaryn about Romlyn's undercover business: ''"Aye, I suspected as much but I've never been able to catch that little sneak with proof."'' When shown the keg, he will get angry: ''"That fetcher! I gave him the same keg just this morning and told him to store it in the cellars. Oh, he'll rot in prison for this one I promise you. As soon as Maven finds out, it's all over for him. Here, take this as a bit of a reward for nabbing our little thief."'' However, Maven will never hear about Romlyn, who will remain an employee at the Black-Briar Meadery indefinitely.<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
* In the basement of the Black-Briar Manor in Riften is a locked room containing the remains of a Black Sacrament ritual, as well as a [[Skyrim:To the Brotherhood|letter from Maven Black-Briar]] complaining that her contract has not been carried out.<br />
* Unlike other jarls, Maven will not be exiled to [[Skyrim:Blue Palace|Blue Palace]] if the Stormcloaks retake Riften and Laila Law-Giver becomes the jarl again. However, after Riften is liberated, Maven can be found walking away from Solitude.{{vn|Is this true?}}<br />
* [[Skyrim:Lillith Maiden-Loom|Lillith Maiden-Loom]] claims to be friends with Maven, though Maven never mentions her.<br />
* In a cut part of the [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloak]] questline, there was going to be a siege of Riften in the event that you had lost the city in either a battle or as a result of [[Skyrim:Season_Unending|Season Unending]]. This siege would play out almost exactly the same way that the [[Skyrim:Battle_for_Whiterun_(Stormcloaks)|Battle for Whiterun]] does in the main game. Upon reaching the throne room, you would be greeted to this exchange (note that this is the same dialogue that would play between [[Skyrim:Yngvar_the_Singer|Yngvar]] and [[Skyrim:Thongvor_Silver-Blood|Jarl Thongvor Silver-Blood]] if you were taking the city of Markarth back for the Empire under the same circumstances). Please click the show button for full dialogue.<br />
{{Showhide/Start|Deleted Dialogue →}}<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Halt in the name of the Jarl!"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Somehow I doubt that will persuade them."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Stay back, lord!"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"If they want my city, they're going to have to take it from me personally."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Protect the Jarl with your lives!"''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Once the ensuing battle had ended, this exchange would play (again, this is the same dialogue that would play if you were taking the city of Markarth back for the Empire under the same circumstances):<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''[[Skyrim:Laila_Law-Giver|Laila]]''':||''"Ahhh... It's good to be home."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Welcome back. I've left a few surprises for you to discover."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"How kind of you. And I've brought an army to give you a going away parade."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''[[Skyrim:Galmar_Stone-Fist|Galmar]]''':||''"If you two are finished with the touching homecoming, there's a city in chaos out there."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"Indeed. Come, there is much to be done."''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
If you were taking Riften for the Empire however, the battle would conclude with this exchange between Laila, Maven, and [[Skyrim:Legate_Rikke|Legate Rikke]]:<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"I think I'll like living here."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"So enters Maven Black-Briar, the glint of Imperial coin in her eyes. So tell me, what's the price for a woman's integrity these days?"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"You never were able to see the forest for the trees, were you?"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"We Nords were proud warriors once. And we still could be. Evidenced by the men and women who fought and died bravely today. You could see that if you had any faith left in that black heart of yours. But no, you're content to snatch scraps falling off the Emperor's table. Fine. Take my home. Take my city. May it burn down around you."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"A bit melodramatic, even for you Laila. Pack your things and go."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"One day when you can see past your own interests, you will come to see that we were right. And this... This is all wrong."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Rikke''':||''"If you ladies are finished bickering, there's much to be done. Jarl Black-Briar put your government together. Do it now, or there will be rioting in the streets. We must move quickly to prevent further violence."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Jarl Black-Briar. I must admit, I do like the sound of that. And don't worry about any rioting, Legate. I have it under control. We will soon begin publicly executing captured men. That should send a clear message to the people."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"Yes, but not likely the one you intend."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Oh? I don't expect anyone to miss my meaning. Come, Legate. There's much to do."''<br />
|}<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
{{Bug|Some dialogue incorrectly identifies Maven as the mother of Ingun and Sibbi, while in actuality she is their grandmother.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Talking to Maul about the Thieves Guild was supposed to give you a dialogue option with [[Skyrim:Dirge|Dirge]] later on; however, due to an oversight, Dirge will never have the dialogue option so his comment about Maul and Maven will never be heard: ''"Maul? Yeah. That jerk works for Maven Black-Briar now. Left me down here watching this garbage heap. I guess he's better at all that talking stuff anyway. I'd just mess everything up."''|USKP|1.3.1}}<br />
{{Bug|[[Skyrim:Anuriel|Anuriel]] was supposed to tell you about the Black-Briar family when asked; however, the conditions for the topic will never be met, so her praise will never be heard: ''"Maven Black-Briar is the owner of the largest and most profitable business in all Skyrim, the Black-Briar Meadery. We're pleased to have her in Riften. She brings stability, opportunities for employment and strategic value to our city."''|USKP|2.0.4}}<br />
{{Bug|Romlyn Dreth and Indaryn were supposed to have a conversation related to [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. However, the conditions are set wrong, so it can never be heard:|confirmed=1}}<br />
:'''Romlyn''': ''"So, what do you think of my plan. You in or out?"''<br />
:'''Indaryn''': ''"If you think {{sic|I'd would|description=wording}} make a move like that without asking Maven, you're out of your mind. Doing that would be a fatal mistake."''<br />
:'''Romlyn''': ''"Come on, think about it. She'd reward us!"''<br />
:'''Indaryn''': ''"If you want to go out to Whiterun and burn that meadery down, go right ahead. And when the guard traces it back here, and Maven is implicated, I'll be sure to tell her it was your idea."''<br />
<br />
== Last Dialogue to be Added Somewhere ==<br />
{{vn|needs exact conditions for each line of dialogue, and placed in the right spot on the page}}<br />
'''Delvin Mallory''': ''"Thanks to Maven Black-Briar, we still have some pull in Riften. But get arrested in Whiterun and you'll be tossed right into the prisons."''<br />
<br />
'''???''': ''"I've busted heads for Maven Black-Briar when she wants to keep her name out of it. Pays good, so why not?"''<br />
<br />
'''Keerava''': ''"Riften's biggest exports used to be fishing and honey, until the Black-Briar family moved in. Now the meadery is the biggest game in town."'' and ''"If Maven Black-Briar keeps raising prices on mead, I'll have to resort to watering it down just to make ends meet."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"The Imperials now control Riften and have placed Maven Black-Briar on the Jarl's throne."''</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox2&diff=1518989User:Krusty/Sandbox22016-06-02T20:32:59Z<p>Krusty: wip</p>
<hr />
<div>{{NPC Summary<br />
|essential=yes<br />
|house=[[Skyrim:Black-Briar Manor|Black-Briar Manor]]<br />
|city=[[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]<br />
|race=Nord<br />
|gender=Female<br />
|class=Nightblade<br />
|faction={{Faction|CR04ExclusionFaction}}; {{Faction|CrimeFactionRift}}; {{Faction|FavorExcludedFaction}}; {{Faction|Imperial Government}}; {{Faction|MQ201PartyGuestHappy}}; {{Faction|NPCs the Player cannot marry}}; {{Faction|Riften Black Briar House Faction}}; {{Faction|Thieves Guild No Pickpocketing Faction}}; {{Faction|TownRiftenFaction}}; {{Faction|faction for party guests}}<br />
|refid=00019DD1<br />
|baseid=0001336A<br />
|image=SR-npc-Maven Black-Briar.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Maven Black-Briar<br />
|skills='''[[Skyrim:Destruction|Destruction]]''', '''[[Skyrim:Sneak|Sneak]]''', [[Skyrim:Alteration|Alteration]], [[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]]<br />
|aggress=Unaggressive<br />
|level=PC&times;1 (range&#061;10-35)<br />
|moral=No Crime<br />
|health=50+(PC-1)&times;8.3<br />
|magicka=50+(PC-1)&times;3.3<br />
|stamina=50+(PC-1)&times;3.3<br />
|voicetype=Unique<br />
}}[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"The throne suits me, don't you think?"'']]<br />
'''Maven Black-Briar''' is the matriarch of the Black-Briar family, and unofficially controls most of [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]. She is the mother of [[Skyrim:Hemming Black-Briar|Hemming Black-Briar]], and grandmother of [[Skyrim:Ingun Black-Briar|Ingun]] and [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi]]. [[Skyrim:Maul|Maul]] is her right-hand man and enforces her will in the city. She has strong ties with both the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]] and the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]], as well as being a personal friend of Jarl [[Skyrim:Laila_Law-Giver|Laila Law-Giver]], despite their political differences. She has her hands in every shady business in Riften, is involved in multiple quests, and is so influential that she will take over as [[Skyrim:Jarl|Jarl]] if the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]] conquer [[Skyrim:The_Rift|the Rift]].<br />
<br />
Maven wears [[Skyrim:Fine_Clothes#000cee80|fine clothes]] with [[Skyrim:Fine_Boots#000cee82|fine boots]] along with a leveled necklace and ring. She carries a [[Skyrim:Belted_Tunic|belted tunic]], her [[Skyrim:Maven's_Personal_Key|personal key]], the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar_Manor_Key|Black-Briar Manor key]], a leveled [[Skyrim:Dagger|dagger]] of the best possible quality, a [[Skyrim:Potions|potion]], and a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled_Lists#Rich|upper-class items and gold]]. She knows the spells [[Skyrim:Lightning Bolt|Lightning Bolt]], [[Skyrim:Sparks|Sparks]], and [[Skyrim:Steadfast Ward|Steadfast Ward]].<br />
<br />
Maven lives in [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Manor|Black-Briar Manor]], right next to [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep|Mistveil Keep]], and she sleeps there every night between midnight and 8am, in her large second-floor bedroom. After a two-hour breakfast, her busy day begins with a visit to one of her many businesses, the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]], to check up on brewmaster [[Skyrim:Indaryn|Indaryn]] and the other employees. At noon she enjoys a two-hour lunch at the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]] with [[Skyrim:Vulwulf Snow-Shod|Vulwulf Snow-Shod]], before she pays a visit to Laila Law-Giver in Mistveil Keep at 2pm. At 4pm she browses the marketplace in the town center until 6pm when she returns home for a two-hour dinner. Her entire evening is spent at the Bee and Barb, until she finally heads back to her luxurious bedroom at midnight. There are only three exceptions to this routine: during the quest [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]] when she will stay hidden on the second floor of the Bee and Barb and hand out orders to you, during [[Skyrim:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]] when she will be one of the guests at the [[Skyrim:Thalmor Embassy|Thalmor Emabssy]], and during the Thieves Guild quest [[Skyrim:Under New Management|Under New Management]] when she will show up in the [[Skyrim:The_Ragged_Flagon_-_Cistern|Cistern]] of the [[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]] and oversee your initiation.<br />
<br />
If she is appointed jarl, Maven will move into [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep|Mistveil Keep]] with Hemming and Maul and follow a different routine befitting her new station. She sleeps in the [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep Jarl's Chambers|jarl's chambers]] between midnight and 8am then heads downstairs and breakfasts with the rest of her court for two hours. She then takes the throne and stays there until her bedtime, interrupted only by two-hour meals at 1pm and 7pm. She runs all her operations from Mistveil Keep, but will still leave for the Bee and Barb during Dampened Spirits. If she is jarl, she will not turn up at the Thalmor Embassy during Diplomatic Immunity, although she will still turn up at the Ragged Flagon during Under New Management.<br />
<br />
Clearly the most influential citizen in Riften, Maven has the attitude to match, both when [[#Conversations|talking to the citizens]] and when talking to you. When you approach her she will greet you with disgust, saying: ''"I presume you're bothering me for a good reason?"'', ''"What in the name of Oblivion do you want?"'' or ''"I don't have time for idle chit-chat. What is it?"'' If you tell her that her name carries a lot of weight in Riften, she will reveal just how much weight: ''"Of course. Nothing gets done without my approval in this city. I have the Jarl's ear, and the guards in my pocket. Anyone makes trouble for me and I pay a visit to the Thieves Guild. Make me angry and I contact the Dark Brotherhood. You'd do well to remember that the next time you make such a stupid observation."'' After joining the Thieves Guild, you can also ask her how she became allied with them, to which she will respond: ''"The Black-Briar family has always been allied with the Guild. Our connections with the Empire and within Skyrim make for a perfect fit. I dare say the Guild owes its survival as much to my family as it does to its own people."'' When exiting conversation, you will always get a disgusted ''"I believe we're done."'' or ''"Out of my way."'' She shows little compassion for the poor and suffering and, when she is browsing the market in the afternoon, the local beggars will collect nothing of her wealth. When asking for a handout, [[Skyrim:Snilf|Snilf]] will receive a: ''"Never. Now move aside."'' while [[Skyrim:Edda|Edda]] will get an even more degrading: ''"Get away from me, you filthy woman."'' She is equally uninterested in [[Lore:Mara|Mara]] and the message of love, and if you attempt to hand her a [[Skyrim:The_Warmth_of_Mara|pamphlet]] during [[Skyrim:Spread the Love|Spread the Love]], she will accept it as a joke: ''"Excellent, I needed some more kindling for my kitchen hearth."'' If the Imperial Legion conquers the Rift and she is made jarl, she will do very little but live the good life inside Mistveil Keep, happily noting that she finally found a position suitable for her influence, saying: ''"The throne suits me, don't you think?"'', ''"My title is just a formality. I've always been in charge around here."'' and ''"Jarl Maven Black-Briar. Has a pleasant sound to it, wouldn't you say?"''<br />
<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
{{TOCright|limit=3}}<br />
== Related Quests ==<br />
'''Thieves Guild Questline'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Dampened Spirits}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|The Pursuit}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Vald's Debt}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Under New Management}}<br />
'''Mistveil Keep Quests'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|The Raid}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Supply and Demand}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|I Done Got Thaned!}}<br />
'''Riften Quests'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Promises to Keep}}<br />
'''Main Questline'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Diplomatic Immunity}}<br />
<br />
== Quest-related Events ==<br />
===Loud and Clear===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Loud_and_Clear_04.jpg|thumb|right|''"The Guild depends on an arrangement of influential people to keep things running smoothly."'']]<br />
At the beginning of [[Skyrim:Loud and Clear|Loud and Clear]], [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] will introduce you to [[Skyrim:Mercer Frey|Mercer Frey]] who will put your skills to the test with a job that even [[Skyrim:Vex|Vex]] couldn't do—breaking into [[Skyrim:Goldenglow Estate|Goldenglow Estate]]. He will explain: ''"Goldenglow Estate is critically important to one of our largest clients. However, the owner has suddenly decided to take matters into his own hands and shut us out. He needs to be taught a lesson. Brynjolf will provide you with the details."'' Brynjolf will then take over: ''"Goldenglow Estate is a bee farm; they raise the wretched little things for honey. It's owned by some smart-mouth wood elf named [[Skyrim:Aringoth|Aringoth]]. We need you to teach him a lesson by burning down three of the estate's hives and clearing out the safe in the main house."'' However, the unnamed 'client' will not tolerate you burning down the entire estate: ''"The catch is that you can't burn the whole place to the ground. That important client Mercer mentioned would be furious if you did."'' He will explain why upsetting the important client would be bad for the Guild: ''"That's not how things work around here. The Guild depends on an arrangement of influential people to keep things running smoothly. Without them at our backs, we'd be in serious trouble."''<br />
<br />
When you ask what should be done with Aringoth, Brynjolf will reveal the name of the client: ''"Maven prefers that Aringoth remains alive, but if he tries to stop you from getting the job done, kill him. The Guild has a lot riding on this. Don't make me look foolish by mucking it up."'' When asked why the entire estate can't be leveled, Brynjolf will explain: ''"I'll give you one good reason. Maven Black-Briar. Burn all the hives and she'd have to import honey for Black-Briar Meadery which would cut into her profits."'' He will then explain further about the cooperation between Maven and the Guild: ''"We had an arrangement with Maven. We kept an eye on Goldenglow Estate to make sure the honey kept flowing. If the workers had a dispute, we'd rough them up. If competitors tried to buy honey from Aringoth, we'd steal the shipments. In return, Maven allowed us to extort Aringoth and bring in a huge payout."'' When asked how dangerous Maven is, Brynjolf will say: ''"Let me put it to you this way. Nothing happens in Riften without Maven's consent. One word from her and you could spend the rest of the fourth era in prison."''<br />
<br />
However, should you talk to Aringoth inside Goldenglow, you will find that he is quite scared: ''"I didn't think Maven or Mercer would allow me to get away with this, but I had little choice."'' Ask him for the safe's key and he'll refuse, terrified: ''"I can't. If I do, I may as well cut my own throat."'' If you successfully persuade him to hand over the key he'll sigh: ''"Fine. Take it! Once the new owner finds out I gave in, I'm as good as dead anyway."''When you return to Brynjolf with the ''[[Skyrim:Goldenglow_Bill_of_Sale_(safe)|Goldenglow Bill of Sale]]'' from the safe, Brynjolf's response will differ depending on your efforts with the burning of the beehives. If you did it wrong, he will say: ''"You've made a mess of things and Maven's furious. I told you not to burn more than three of the hives! I've smoothed things over with her for now, but you can forget your cut."'' If you did well, he will greet you with: ''"Word on the street is Goldenglow's been hit. Good job, lad/lass."'' He will then look at the bill and say: ''"Aringoth sold Goldenglow? What's that idiot thinking? He has no idea the extent of Maven's fury when she's been cut out of a deal, but I'm certain he'll find out. If only this parchment had the buyer's name instead of this odd symbol. Any idea what that might be?"'' When you say 'no' he will send you to Maven with the words: ''"Blast. Well, I'll check my sources and speak to Mercer. But for now, you're off to speak to Maven Black-Briar. She asked for you by name."'' To respond to this unsettling invitation, you are presented with three options:<br />
{|class=wikitable width="100%"<br />
!width=27%|Option<br />
!Dialogue<br />
|-<br />
|Good, it's about time I met her.||''"Don't sound so eager, it's not a social visit. It's business."''<br />
|-<br />
|I thought I did the job like you asked...?||''"Oh, no. Nothing like that. You're calling on her for business."''<br />
|-<br />
|Sure, but will I come out of there alive?||''"Ha ha. If it was like that she wouldn't be asking for you, she'd be calling on the Dark Brotherhood. It's just business."''<br />
|}<br />
When you ask him what Maven wants, Brynjolf will respond: ''"That's between you and Maven and I prefer to keep it that way. Just keep your ears open and your mouth shut and you'll do fine."'' '''OR''' ''"Don't worry about it. Maven's business dealings usually involve quite a bit of gold for her people."'' After handing you the reward, the quest ends and Brynjolf will repeat: ''"Maven wants to see you right away. I suggest you head right over."'' This starts the next quest, [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]].<br />
<br />
===Dampened Spirits===<br />
Inside the newly opened [[Skyrim:Honningbrew Meadery|Honningbrew Meadery]] near [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]] stands confident owner [[Skyrim:Sabjorn|Sabjorn]], who will sell his produce saying: ''"Honningbrew uses only the finest natural honey, not that sludge you'll find at Goldenglow Estate."'' and ''"Black-Briar Mead is just fine, if you need something to wash the dirt off a riding horse's hooves."'' This kind of unfriendly competition is not acceptable for Maven and you will find her waiting for you on the second floor of the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]], obviously not interested in attracting too much attention. When she sees you, her greeting will differ depending on your efforts back at Goldenglow. If you managed to screw it up, she will be disgusted and say: ''"So you're the one that burned down Goldenglow Estate. Do you have any idea what that little stunt you pulled is going to cost me? I'm amazed you even bothered to show your face here."'' If you did well, she will only say: ''"So, you're the one. Hmm. You don't look so impressive."'' However, you will be presented with three different options, again depending on your past efforts. The table below displays all possible variations and the conditions:<br />
{{vn|needs exact conditions for each line of dialogue}}<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!Effort at Goldenglow <br />
!Option<br />
!Maven's response<br />
|-<br />
!rowspan=3| Success<br />
| I'm the best at what I do.<br />
| ''"Is that confidence I hear... or is it arrogance? Strange how often they're confused. You have to understand, it's been a long time since Brynjolf's sent me anyone I can rely on."''<br />
|-<br />
| How about we skip the conversation?<br />
| ''"You're a firebrand, aren't you? It's about time Brynjolf sent me someone with business sense. I was beginning to think he was running some sort of beggar's guild over there."''<br />
|-<br />
| Sorry you're disappointed.<br />
| ''"This is exactly what I'm talking about. Once again Brynjolf sends me someone with no backbone, no determination."''<br />
|-<br />
! Failure<br />
| My apologies, Lady Maven.<br />
| ''"The only reason we're having this conversation is due to Brynjolf's assurance you won't botch another assignment. He claims you possess some sort of uncanny aptitude for your line of work. Quite frankly I find that hard to believe."''<br />
|}<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_03.jpg|thumb|right|''"Faith? I don't have faith in anyone."'']]<br />
After that, you can ask her if she has no faith in the Thieves Guild: ''"Faith? I don't have faith in anyone. All I care about is cause and effect. Did the job get done and was it done correctly. There's no gray area."'' You can now tell her she won't have any problems like that with you and she will say: ''"I hope not. This is an important job. I have a competitor called Honningbrew Meadery that I want to put out of business. I also want to know how they managed to get the place up and running so quickly."'' She will then explain what needs to be done beforehand: ''"Head to the Bannered Mare in Whiterun and look for Mallus Maccius. He'll fill you in on all the details."'' At this point, you can ask for an elaboration on the owner at Honningbrew: ''"Some layabout named Sabjorn. Been a thorn in my side for the last few years now."'' When you point out that Sabjorn seems like more than just friendly competition, she will admit: ''"Not a day goes by that I don't regret letting Sabjorn get as far as he did. In only a few short years, he's taken that bile he calls mead to market and a chunk of my profits with it! I can't imagine where he found the gold to take it to market so quickly."'' She then admits he needs to be taken out: ''"Exactly. With Sabjorn in prison, his meadery will be forced to close. Then I swoop in and take over the place. No more competition."'' She will send you away with a warning: ''"One more time in case I wasn't clear. You butcher this job and you'll be sorry."'' You can ask her why she strikes the Honningbrew Meadery now: ''"The Goldenglow Estate job has undoubtedly interrupted the supply of honey I need to make my mead. Sabjorn could use this interruption to his advantage and collect a larger share of the market. I can't have that."'' Otherwise, she will just ask you to hurry: ''"Shouldn't you be on your way to Whiterun?"'' and ''"Why aren't you at Honningbrew Meadery?"''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Mallus_Maccius_02.jpg|thumb|left|''"Maven and I spent weeks planning this."'']]<br />
In [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]], unhappy brewmaster [[Skyrim:Mallus Maccius|Mallus Maccius]] will share the clever plan about poisoning the brewing vats and will finish with: ''"Maven and I spent weeks planning this. All we need is someone like you to get in there and get it done."'' He will also add: ''"Once Sabjorn is out of the way, Maven has plans for this place."'' He will then explain his motives for ruining things for Sabjorn: ''"Maven and I worked out a little deal. If Sabjorn ends up in jail, she's going to take over his meadery. And guess who gets to run the Black-Briar Meadery in Whiterun? You're looking at him."''<br />
<br />
After the deed is done and Sabjorn is behind bars, ask Mallus for permission to look at Sabjorn's books and he will say: ''"So, Maven wants to hunt down Sabjorn's private partner, huh?"'' and hand you the key. When you mention the presence of [[Skyrim:Hamelyn|Hamelyn]] in the basement, he will admit: ''"I thought it would be better to leave some of the details out of our previous discussion. Didn't want to risk you walking away from the job. Besides, you've done Maven a favor getting rid of him and saved me from wasting coin hiring someone else to do it later."'' Lastly, he will tell you what he will do to the old Honningbrew Meadery: ''"Start changing it over to the Black-Briar Meadery West as soon as possible. That was Maven's part of the deal. She's put me in charge of keeping the mead flowing, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. If you're in the area and you ever need anything fenced, you just let me know."'' He will bid you farewell with: ''"Remember to put in a good word with Maven for me."'' In Sabjorn's private quarters you will find an [[Skyrim:Have Need of Cynric|offer]] from Maven, along with the [[Skyrim:Promissory Note|promissory note]].<br />
<br />
Back in the Bee and Barb, Maven will be waiting for you, greeting you with an impatient: ''"I trust you have good news for me."'' Two options will reflect whether or not you failed at Honningbrew Meadery. If you failed, you will get a good talking-to before Maven will take the promissory note from you.<br />
{{vn|needs exact conditions for each line of dialogue, and the missing part filled in, if any}}<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!Effort at Honningbrew<br />
!Option<br />
!Maven's response<br />
|-<br />
!rowspan=2| Failure<br />
| Job's finished. Here's the information you requested.<br />
| ''"Have you lost your mind? I thought it was clear I didn't want anyone killed. Now I have to spend a fortune to keep the whole thing quiet. Guess where that money comes from."''<br />
|-<br />
| I'm sorry, Maven.<br />
| ''"The only thing keeping me from having you killed is Brynjolf. He's stepped in and made amends. At least you remembered to bring me the information I requested. Give me that."''<br />
|-<br />
! (missing?)<br />
| ?'''?'''?'''?'''<br />
| '''just a reminder to look into this, per conversation in IRC :)'''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Whether or not you succeeded or failed, Maven will take the note from you and be annoyed: ''"This doesn't tell me much. The only thing that could identify Sabjorn's partner is this odd little symbol."'' She will continue with: ''"Well, whoever this mysterious marking represents, they'll regret starting a war with me. You should bring this information to the Thieves Guild immediately. There's also the matter of your payment. I believe you'll find this more than adequate for your services."'' After handing you the reward, she will send you away with: ''"I believe we're done."'' Back in the [[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]], Brynjolf will comment: ''"Word on the street is that poor Sabjorn has found himself in Whiterun's prison. How unfortunate for him."'' When you remark that it was fortunate for Maven, Brynjol will respond: ''"Exactly! Now you're beginning to see how our little system works. Maven sent word that you discovered something else while you were out there. Something important to the Guild?"'' When you tell him about the symbol, he will say: ''"Then this is beyond coincidence. First Aringoth and now Sabjorn. Someone's trying to take us down by driving a wedge between Maven and the Guild."'' He will then send you to see Mercer Frey, thus ending the quest. Should you pay Mallus Maccius a visit in his new brewery, he will happily say: ''"Maven Black-Briar always remembers her friends. That's why I'm in charge of the place."''<br />
<br />
=== Scoundrel's Folly ===<br />
The next quest, [[Skyrim:Scoundrel's Folly|Scoundrel's Folly]], takes you to an angry Mercer Frey who has been equally unable to identify the strange symbol. He concludes: ''"It would seem our adversary is attempting to take us apart indirectly by angering Maven Black-Briar. Very clever."'' However, the unknown enemy made a mistake and Mercer orders you to visit an old Thieves Guild accomplice, [[Skyrim:Gulum-Ei|Gulum-Ei]], who used to be their contact in [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]]'s [[Skyrim:East Empire Company|East Empire Company]]. You are to seek him out and shake the truth out of him, in an attempt to identify who bought Goldenglow. Before leaving for Solitude, pay a visit to Maven and tell her about current events. It turns out she has been in contact with Mercer: ''"Yes, we spoke at length while you were in Whiterun dealing with our meadery situation. I hope for all your sakes you find out who's behind this supposed 'plot.'"'' She will then explain her choice of words: ''"Having Goldenglow kept in line by the Thieves Guild has kept the honey flowing with minimal cost. Now, mysteriously, some sort of anonymous adversary shows up and takes the Estate out of my hands."'' She will then admit she starts to doubt the Thieves Guild: ''"When you've been doing business like I have for decades, you quickly discover that the only person you can trust is yourself."'' According to Maven there is only one way to regain her trust in the Guild: ''"If you were to bring me the deed to Goldenglow Estate, so I was the full owner, that would be a step in the right direction."'' If that happens, she will be willing to compensate: ''"Since I know losing the farm's payments will harm the Guild, I intend to make a substantial contribution for compensation. I take care of my friends."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Gulum-Ei_02.jpg|thumb|left]]<br />
After your lengthy trek through the Empire Company Warehouse and Brinewater Grotto, stubborn Argonian Gulum-Ei will finally be scared enough to tell the truth about how he acted as middleman in the sale of Goldenglow, as well as who was behind it: [[Skyrim:Karliah|Karliah]], the thief responsible for murdering Mercer Frey's predecessor, Gallus. While the plot thickens, Maven will once again be brought up, after Gulum-Ei hands you the deed to Goldenglow Estate: ''"Here, take the Goldenglow Estate Deed as proof. And when you speak to Mercer, tell him I'm worth more to him alive."'' Now you can ask him why Karliah purchased Goldenglow, and the plan will be obvious: ''"I asked her the same thing and she wouldn't come out and tell me. But now that I know who she is, I'd say she's trying to hit the Thieves Guild where it hurts."'' He will then explain: ''"Maven Black-Briar needs Goldenglow's honey for her mead. She's been using the Guild to keep the Estate under her thumb. If the owner cuts the Guild out of the picture, he's cutting Maven out of the picture... which she can't afford. If I was Maven, I'd blame the Guild for weakening and not being able to handle the place."'' He will then state the obvious, that Maven would lose faith in the Guild, exactly as she told you back in Riften: ''"Exactly. For the Guild to survive, they need Maven's support. This Karliah must have spent a lot of time and resources planning this."'' When you return to Mercer Frey, he will be so shocked to hear the name Karliah, that Maven and her funds will be temporarily forgotten while you go through [[Skyrim:Snow Veil Sanctum|Snow Veil Sanctum]] with Mercer during the quest [[Skyrim:Speaking With Silence|Speaking With Silence]].<br />
<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
===The Pursuit===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Karliah_09.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Karliah|Karliah]]]]<br />
When Mercer betrays you at the end of Speaking With Silence, the conversation between Mercer and Karliah makes it clear who bought Goldenglow Estate and funded Honningbrew Meadery, simply to lure Mercer out in the open due to the rage of Maven Black-Briar, as she explains it inside Snow Veil Sanctum: ''"'To ensure an enemy's defeat, you must first undermine his allies.' It was the first lesson Gallus taught us."'' Brynjolf will comment on Karliah's actions with admiration: ''"Trying to make Mercer look bad in front of Maven, eh? Clever lass."'' When you find [[Skyrim: Gallus's Encoded Journal|proof]] of Mercer's betrayal during the quest [[Skyrim:Hard Answers]], Karliah finally comes out of hiding and convinces Brynjolf, Vex, and [[Skyrim:Delvin Mallory|Delvin Mallory]] that Mercer needs to be taken out, especially after showing them the emptied treasury. During the quest [[Skyrim:The Pursuit|The Pursuit]], Brynjolf will ask you to investigate Mercer's residence, [[Skyrim:Riftweald Manor|Riftweald Manor]], for clues on Mercer's location. According to Brynjolf, Mercer inherited the manor from the Black-Briars: ''"Aye. A gift from the Black-Briars after they kicked the previous family out... place called Riftweald Manor. He never stays there, just pays for the upkeep on it. Hired some lout by the name of Vald to guard the place."''<br />
<br />
===Vald's Debt===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Vald_02.jpg|thumb|left]]<br />
Brynjolf will then elaborate on [[Skyrim:Vald|Vald]], starting the concurrent quest [[Skyrim:Vald's Debt|Vald's Debt]]: ''"A real piece of work, that one. Mercer's holding something over his head, keeping him loyal. Talk to Vex. She used to know him very well... if you catch my meaning."'' When you speak to [[Skyrim:Vex|Vex]] she will tell you what it takes to remove Vald from the property: ''"Sure, but he'll ask for a whole lot. I mean, you are asking him to betray Mercer Frey. Your best bet would be to erase his debt with Maven Black-Briar. If you talk to her, she might be able to give you the details."'' When confronted in the backyard of Riftweald Manor, Vald himself will echo Vex's statements: ''"You ain't got enough coin to make my problems go away unless ya' can talk Maven Black-Briar into letting me outta' my debt."''<br />
<br />
When Maven is confronted with this demand, she will be less than impressed: ''"Vald? Why would you want to help that idiot? He owes me a steep debt. In fact, he's lucky all I did was force him to work for Mercer."'' She will then explain why Vald owes her: ''"A few years back, I commissioned a unique quill from a good friend of mine in Winterhold. Vald was tasked with getting it here safely and it ended up at the bottom of Lake Honrich."'' She will then elaborate on the [[Skyrim:Quill of Gemination|Quill of Gemination]]: ''"The wizards called it the Quill of Gemination and demanded a tremendous amount of gold to have it made. If you can locate the quill and return it to me, something Vald was too stupid to do himself, I'll consider the debt satisfied."'' While her offer is more than generous for her usual standards, you can still ask her what the Quill of Gemination was supposed to do: ''"The quill was supposed to allow me to duplicate any writing I'm viewing in exacting detail. I'm sure you can understand how useful that would prove in a business situation, especially where signatures were involved."'' She will also explain that the Quill was personalized: ''"Fortunately, the quill required an ink with a unique formula known only to myself. So if you're getting any ideas about selling it to someone else or keeping it, you'll find it would hold little value."'' As you will have to receive the quill to get Vald out of his debt, you can ask Maven how it ended up in [[Skyrim:Lake Honrich|Lake Honrich]]: ''"I had Vald meet the caravan from Winterhold on the western end of the lake so he could avoid the roads. The idiot got lost in the mist and ran his boat right over some rocks, sending it straight to the bottom. He's too stupid to remember where he was, and any attempt I've made to find it in the past has been unsuccessful."'' She will then provide a hint: ''"Vald said his rowboat struck some rocks... I'd check under the water near one of the small islands in the lake. Perhaps you should start at the docks and work your way out towards Goldenglow Estate."''<br />
<br />
When found and located, return to Maven with the Quill of Gemination and she will say: ''"Really? I wrote that off a long time ago. Well, I suppose I need to fulfill my end of the bargain. Give this document to Vald. It frees him from the debt, but I never want to see him in Riften again."'' In the backyard of Riftweald Manor, Vald will be quite surprised to see his debt erased: ''"I can't believe it! How did ya' talk her into this? Never mind, I don't care. I'm just glad I don't gotta' work for Maven anymore. Here, ya' did me a favor, I guess I owe you one."'' He will then provide access to the backyard of the manor and disappear{{huh}} from the game.<br />
<br />
===Under New Management===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_05.jpg|thumb|right|''"We'll talk after this ridiculous ceremony."'']]<br />
Incidentally, this will be Maven's last active quest in the Thieves Guild questline, and it is never resolved whether or not she is happy with how things turned out. Seemingly, she is quite happy as she will make a surprise appearance much later, when you are finally honored for restoring the Thieves Guild during the quest [[Skyrim:Under New Management|Under New Management]]. If you haven't done the ceremony, Maven will tell you, ''"Not now, you idiot. We'll talk after this ridiculous ceremony."'' If you are about to talk to Brynjolf or have done so, Maven will also say, ''"I suppose congratulations are in order. Now don't screw it up."''<br />
<br />
===The Raid===<br />
After you have helped rid [[Skyrim:Wujeeta|Wujeeta]] of her [[Skyrim:Skooma|skooma]] addiction during [[Skyrim:Helping Hand|Helping Hand]], you will receive an objective to find the skooma dealer in Riften. When asked, Wujeeta will admit getting the drug from one [[Skyrim:Sarthis_Idren|Sarthis Idren]] at [[Skyrim:Riften Warehouse|Riften Warehouse]]. The warehouse is locked around the clock, but Wujeeta will point you towards the current jarl for the key. If Maven has been appointed jarl, you will have to deal with her to get the key. When you tell her you found a skooma dealer in Riften, she names him right away: ''"Ah yes, Sarthis... a thorn in my side for the last few years. I've tried repeatedly to eradicate that meddler, but he has ears within the city guard. Gives us the slip every time we raid the warehouse. However, if you'd wish to eliminate that burden for me... well, let's just say it would go a long way with earning my favor."'' If you reject her, she will get angry: ''"Let me give you a word of advice. Think about your choices carefully from now on. You'll go much farther in Riften with me on your side."'' If you accept, she will hand you the [[Skyrim:Riften Warehouse Key|warehouse key]] with the words: ''"Good. Here, take the key to the warehouse. Pay dear old Sarthis a visit and tell him Maven sends her regards, would you?"'' Obviously, Sarthis will not survive your visit, and the [[Skyrim:Shipment's Ready|evidence]] you find in the warehouse will start the next quest, [[Skyrim:Supply and Demand|Supply and Demand]].<br />
<br />
===Supply and Demand===<br />
When you report back to Maven, she will state: ''"Results speak volumes over words and you've just proved it. Did you happen to discover where the fetcher was getting his skooma from?"'' When you tell her they are at [[Skyrim:Cragslane Cavern|Cragslane Cavern]] she will not hesitate with a death warrant on the persons responsible: ''"Then I want you to head out there immediately and eliminate all of them. I can't afford to have another Sarthis blunder into Riften because they think we're too lazy to disrupt their pitiful operation. Do this task for me and you'll be well on your way to a title in Riften."'' If you reject, she will get angry again: ''"I'm very disappointed. I'd advise you to rethink that decision soon."'' If you accept she will just send you on your way with: ''"Good. Make sure not one of them escapes alive."'' Once you have cleared Cragslane Cavern, a return to Maven will make her say: ''"I'll send my men to secure any of the remaining goods you left behind. We can't have that substance falling into the wrong hands now, can we? Here, this should suffice as your cut of the... or rather, a reward for your actions. Now, if you'll excuse me..."'' This opens up for the final quest with Maven as jarl, specifically [[Skyrim:I Done Got Thaned!|I Done Got Thaned!]]<br />
<br />
===I Done Got Thaned!===<br />
After [[Skyrim:The Raid|The Raid]] and [[Skyrim:Supply and Demand|Supply and Demand]], Maven will finally be willing to name you Thane of the Rift. You can ask her if there is anything else you can do for Riften and she will answer: ''"So, I've been hearing your name in court quite a bit lately. I've been informed by my steward that you've made quite an impression in the Rift; the people won't stop blathering about you."'' She will then tell you what the blathering is about: ''"Oh don't pretend to be modest. I'm talking about your new role as champion. Apparently, you've taken my people under your wing. If you think you can steal my throne by winning the hearts of the people, that's where you're wrong. Keep that in mind. However, since it wouldn't behoove me to make you disappear, I'd rather have you on my side as Thane of Riften."'' When you accept the offer, her response depends on whether or not you have purchased a house in Riften. If you own a house, she will say: ''"You damn well better. I've checked with my court and apparently you're fully eligible... there's nothing standing in the way of presenting you the title."'' If not, she will instead point you towards Hemming: ''"Not so fast, there's a matter of residence to be discussed. In order to have the title bestowed upon you, you need to purchase a house within Riften. And by the Eight, aren't you fortunate that my steward has just the place for you to buy. After the place is yours, come back to me and we'll deal with the rest of the nonsense."'' When you have purchased a house, she will tell you: ''"I expect that you'll distance yourself from the affairs of state. In other words, keep your nose out of my business and we'll do just fine. Just remember that you're only a part of my court, this doesn't make you one of the family. I guess all that's left is to bestow the title. What were those words again? Doesn't matter... the title is yours. I henceforth name you Thane of Riften. Don't disappoint me."''<br />
<br />
===Promises to Keep===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Louis_Letrush_03.jpg|thumb|left|[[Skyrim:Louis Letrush|Louis Letrush]]]]<br />
In addition to keeping the Thieves Guild and the Black-Briar Meadery in check, Maven will also face problems with an old accomplice, specifically [[Skyrim:Louis Letrush|Louis Letrush]] who can be found at the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]]. Not surprisingly, the imprisoned [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi Black-Briar]] has unfinished business and Louis will ask you for help, saying: ''"Looking for work? I need someone to deliver a message to Sibbi Black-Briar."'' When asked about the message he will explain his problem: ''"Ah, well, I recently approached Sibbi Black-Briar about buying [[Skyrim:Frost|Frost]], one of the finest breeding horses in Skyrim. He agreed to sell. I paid Sibbi half the cost of Frost up front, but before he could deliver, Maven had him locked up. Sibbi believes this exempts him from our deal. It does not. I want you to talk to Sibbi for me. Then, I want you to bring me Frost and the Lineage Papers that prove the horse's worth."'' You can then ask him to elaborate on a few things. When asked about why Sibbi is in jail, he will respond: ''"No idea, but whatever he did it must have angered Maven. No guard would lock up a Black-Briar without the old lady's permission."''<br />
<br />
When you approach Sibbi Black-Briar in his luxurious cell in Riften Jail and tell him Letrush sent you, he will respond: ''"Ah, and let me guess. He wants his horse. Well, that's going to be a bit of a problem. You see, I don't really outright 'own' Frost..."'' When you ask him if he doesn't even own the horse, he will concur: ''"That is correct. You see, Frost belongs to the Black-Briar estate. Technically everything in the estate is owned by my mother, Maven. My plan was to take the horse from our lodge and deliver it to Letrush at the stables. Obviously, that didn't exactly work out as I'd planned... Still, I don't want to cross Letrush. Tell you what. Steal the horse and deliver it, and you can have the second half of the payment."'' At this point you can attempt to persuade him. If you fail, he will comment: ''"Nice try, but my mother's already got me in jail. Maybe you should try that one on Letrush."'' If you succeed he will offer you a [[Skyrim:Sibbi's Stash Key|key to a stash of gold]]: ''"Sure - take advantage of the guy in jail. Okay, fine. I can make the deal sweeter. I obviously don't have anything here, but... there's a hidden stash in the Lodge. And I did manage to hold on to the key... Take it."'' Lastly, you can just accept his offer and he will say: ''"Then I think we're done talking."'' However, you can still ask him what the logic of stealing Maven's horse is: ''"I'm not stealing anything. Besides, some jail time isn't going to make me roll over and play dead."'' Lastly, you can seek advice from the leaders of the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]], but to no avail. [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] will say: ''"So Sibbi finally got the nerve to bare his teeth, eh? Look, this sounds like a family matter and I don't want the Guild in the middle of it. You do what you want. Just don't expect us to at your back when Maven has your head on the executioner's block."'', while [[Skyrim:Delvin Mallory|Delvin Mallory]] will say: ''"Guess I should have known. Maven and Sibbi have been at odds ever since she had him tossed into jail. Look, if I were you, I'd proceed carefully. Crossin' Maven is one of the first things you learn not to do when you're down here. As far as the Guild's concerned this is between Sibbi and Maven, so we're going to officially stay out of it."''<br />
<br />
At this point, you can choose to double-cross both Sibbi and Louis and go directly to Maven and tell her what is happening behind her back (note that this course of action will cause a slight [[Skyrim:Promises to Keep#Bugs|bug]]). When confronted with the plot to steal Frost, Maven will say: ''"Don't tell me - Sibbi and Louis Letrush? Well, Sibbi is in jail and Letrush is certainly welcome to try. My hired help is more than a match for him."'' When you tell her that Louis wants you to steal the horse, she will respond: ''"Really? Now that is interesting... Then you should know that Louis and I have a certain... history. Tell you what. Go along with his plans for now. I'll keep an eye on you both and, when the time is right, I'll settle accounts with Louis."'' This will not affect the quest, and you will still have to meet up with Louis Letrush in the forest after stealing Frost. You can then negotiate with him. The option about telling Maven is available regardless of your earlier choices:<br />
<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!width=30%|Option<br />
!colspan=4|Dialogue<br />
|-<br />
| I'm going to Maven unless I leave here with Frost. '''(Persuade)'''||colspan=4|'''Passed''': ''"You're playing a dangerous game, my friend. Fine, you win. Take the horse and leave."''<br>'''Failed''': ''"And telling her what? That you stole her horse? I don't think so."''<br />
|-<br />
| If you were dead, I could keep the horse... '''(Intimidate)'''||colspan=4|'''Passed''': ''"Now wait a minute... No need to do anything drastic. Look, Keep the horse, all right? Then we all walk away happy..."''<br>'''Failed''': ''"Well ain't that the truth of it. All right, then. Let's see what you've got!"''<br />
|-<br />
| Speaking of my pay...'''||colspan=4|''"Yes, yes. Here it is. I think I'd best be off now."''<br />
|}<br />
Regardless of your choice, and even if he ends up threatening you, he will never attack.<br />
<br />
===Diplomatic Immunity===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_04.jpg|thumb|right|''"I do respect power, and the Thalmor have that."'']]<br />
During the quest [[Skyrim:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], Maven will quite often be found at [[Skyrim:Elenwen|Elenwen]]'s part at the [[Skyrim:Thalmor Embassy|Thalmor Embassy]], drifting around and chatting with the other guests. When you approach her she will be surprised: ''"I don't recall seeing you at one of these before. And I know everyone who's anyone in Skyrim."'' She will then point towards [[Skyrim:Razelan|Razelan]], stating: ''"See that disgusting drunk over there? A high-ranking official in the East Empire Company, believe it or not."'' If [[Skyrim:General Tullius|General Tullius]] is at the party as well, she will comment: ''"That's General Tullius himself. He can't stand Elenwen, but she insists that he attend these parties. Just to piss him off, no doubt."'' Your dialogue options with her depend on whether or not you have completed the quest [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. If you have yet to complete it, you will have two options:<br><br />
'''What brings you to this party?''' ''"To maintain relationships. By the way, I don't know who you are, but unless you want me to blow your cover, I'd advise that you avoid me for the rest of the party."''<br><br />
'''What's your relationship with the Thalmor?''' "''We have a relationship of mutual respect. I care little about the politics and rivalries between the Thalmor and the Empire. But I do respect power, and the Thalmor have that. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone."''<br />
<br />
'''I didn't know you had dealings with the Thalmor.''' ''"Have you learned nothing about me? I have dealings with everyone. Now, leave me. I don't want to arouse suspicion by talking to someone that clearly doesn't belong here."''<br><br />
'''Are you here on guild business?''' ''"Don't mention the Guild. In fact, it's better if you don't speak to me at all. This is not the place."''<br />
<br />
You were supposed to ask her to cause a distraction. However, none of Maven's quests will raise her disposition accordingly, so the option never becomes available. Click the show/hide button to the right to see the missing dialogue.<br />
{{Showhide/Start|Maven Distraction →}}<br />
'''I need your help with something.''' ''"I'm listening."''<br><br />
'''I need you to cause a scene. Get everyone's attention for a few minutes.''' ''"I don't even want to know, do I? But for you... all right. I'll do it."'' '''OR''' ''"You've got a lot of nerve, suggesting something like that, to me of all people! If this was Riften, I'd have you thrown in the dungeon!"''<br />
<br />
I'm doing as you asked. Not for nothing, I hope?<br />
<br />
'''Maven Black-Briar''': ''"You've got a lot of nerve, suggesting something like that, to me of all people! If this was Riften, I'd have you thrown in the dungeon!"''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"What? I didn't... hmm? No, listen, you must have misunderstood... I don't mean to say I wouldn't be interested... what I mean is..."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You're a disgrace to the Empire. To think that you're actually a representative of the East Empire Company. When people talk about the decadent, tottering Empire, it's people like you they have in mind!"''<br><br />
'''Elenwen''': ''"Razalan. And you promised to behave yourself this time. Remove him. He's disturbing the other guests."''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"I protest! This is an insult to the dignity of my person! This time I'm completely innocent! / This is preposterous. Disrespect... insulting! I am tired of being hounded from all sides! / Madame Ambassador, you know that I would never have behaved... that is to say... well I swear I'm innocent this time!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Well, now. There's no need to ruin the party on my account. I don't think he'll be bothering me again."''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"Absolutely not! I protest... uh, that is, yes, of course. I still don't understand what just... oh never mind. / That is absolutely untrue! Uh, that is, yes, of course. What... I don't understand why everyone... never mind."''<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
<br />
==Rumors and Other Dialogue==<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
<br />
===The Black-Briars===<br />
The Black-Briar family is well-known all over the Rift, mainly due to their questionable reputation and Maven's habit of stomping all over every obstacle. This not only includes her business relations and employers, it also includes her own family, as testified by the imprisonment of [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi Black-Briar]], who dared to anger Maven and ended up in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]]. [[Skyrim:Hemming Black-Briar|Hemming Black-Briar]] merely spends all of his time inside Black-Briar Manor, waiting to take over the family business, while [[Skyrim:Ingun Black-Briar|Ingun Black-Briar]] hates the family business and has ambitions of becoming an alchemist, much to Maven's regret.<br />
<br />
====Ingun Black-Briar====<br />
Ingun works as an apprentice for [[Skyrim:Elgrim|Elgrim]] at [[Skyrim:Elgrim's Elixirs|Elgrim's Elixirs]] and dreams of becoming an alchemist. She rarely talks about anything but ingredients, although you can ask her about her family: ''"Hmph. My family. All that wealth and they squander it on foolish ventures and political schemes. I was meant for so much more than all of this... I wish to pledge my life and ply my talents in darker circles. If only my mother would let me, I would make her proud."'' Maven, however, thinks little of her efforts to make her proud and will instead treat her to her usual methods:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Ingun, how much longer do you intend to waste your life concocting your foolish little potions?"''<br><br />
'''Ingun''': ''"I've told you, my interest in the family business is quite low. I wish to be much more than just a merchant."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Your interests lay where I wish them to lay otherwise my favorite daughter may end up homeless and without a septim to her name. Is that clear?"''<br><br />
'''Ingun''': ''"Yes, mother."''<br />
<br />
====Sibbi Black-Briar====<br />
Sibbi Black-Briar is currently imprisoned in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]] for the murder of his girlfriend's brother, Wulfur; not because he was caught by the guards, but because Maven ordered it: ''"Mother thought I should be taught a lesson for airing the family's dirty laundry in public. I mean, I've... taken care of many people for her in the past. What in Oblivion did she expect me to do? Ah well. At least I have all the comforts of home during my stay. Well, except the touch of a woman of course."'' When talking about the family, Sibbi will proudly explain: ''"When speaking of the Black-Briars, only one thought should spring to mind. We are not to be trifled with. Help us, you end up rich. Cross us and you'll end up a memory. Is that enough information for you?"'' You will have to deal with both Sibbi and Maven during the quest [[Skyrim:Promises to Keep|Promises to Keep]]; please see [[#Promises to Keep|this section]] for details.<br />
<br />
====Hemming Black-Briar====<br />
Hemming is seemingly the quiet family member and will mostly brag about his skills as a warrior. However, he will also mention how his mother favors him: ''"My mother spares no expense where I'm concerned. I'm heir to the family fortune after all."'' He will also reveal his ambitions for the Black-Briar Meadery: ''"Once I'm in charge I have bigger aspirations than just Skyrim. I plan to bring Black-Briar Mead to all of Tamriel."'' He will then tell you: ''"My children, Sibbi and Ingun, are being groomed to run the family business one day as well."'' Lastly, he will describe Sibbi and Ingun: ''"Sibbi will prove to be a fine leader one day, but Ingun... that girl has her mind somewhere other than business."'' He will then tell you how Maven feels about Ingun: ''"Maven's disappointed that Ingun's heart isn't in the family business, but she says 'Ingun still has her uses.' Not sure what that means."'' However, Hemming is deeply involved with most of the illegal operations supervised by Maven, as evident by their conversations at the Bee and Barb:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_11.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, I want you to personally supervise the next shipment."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"We already have people that do that and they make quite a bit of coin for it."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't trust them. Come to think of it, I don't trust you either, but at least you're family."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Anything you say, Mother."''<br />
<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"[[Skyrim:Bersi Honey-Hand|Bersi]] still refuses to cooperate. What did you want to do?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I've known Bersi a long time. Even before he opened that rubbish heap he calls a [[Skyrim:Pawned Prawn|shop]]."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"And if he still refuses?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Then put the thumbscrews on him and hit him... hard."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, I need you to bring a note to Sibbi. I need him to do something for me."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Sibbi? He's in prison... you put him there."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I know that! I can promise you when he's ready, he'll find the cell door unlocked."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Why do you tolerate him, mother? All he contributes to this family is embarrassment and disgrace."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I tolerate your son because he'll do anything I ask, without question. I'd expect the same from my own son."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"I understand, mother. Forgive me."''<br />
<br />
Hemming is not late to use the family name to his advantage. He may engage in conversation with Bee and Barb servant [[Skyrim:Talen-Jei|Talen-Jei]]:<br />
<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"So, Talen. Have you reconsidered my offer?"''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Sorry Hemming, I've no interest in becoming your valet."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"What's the matter, I thought you people were used to indentured servitude."''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Xhuth! Black-Briar or not, say that again and so help me you're going to need more than your mother to protect you from me."''<br />
<br />
If you manage to conquer the Rift for the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]], or give it to the Legion as part of [[Skyrim:Season Unending|Season Unending]], [[Skyrim:General Tullius|General Tullis]] will say: ''"Riften will be handed over to Imperial control. Jarl Laila Law-Giver will step down, and Maven Black-Briar will become the Jarl of Riften."'' Maven will move into Mistveil Keep and bring Hemming along as housecarl, effectively leaving Ingun alone in Riftweald Manor. After the promotion, Hemming becomes considerably more talkative and will readily tell you about the Black-Briar family: ''"The Black-Briars have been instrumental in keeping Riften on the map. Before the meadery was opened almost fifty years ago, this town was nothing... a simple waypoint for those journeying on to Morrowind. Now, thanks to my mother's generosity, this city is making its mark."'' If you exit conversation he will remind you: ''"You'd do well to remember who's in charge around here."'' He will also mention Maven when talking about his new position as steward: ''"I'm not certain what business it is of yours, but I'm moth... I mean Jarl Maven's steward. I run the prisons in Riften, keep the riff-raff from robbing the good folk of this city and have drunks tossed into the lake."'' He will also comment of the defense of Riften: ''"Defense? No one would dare attack Riften. I'm not sure you realize just how well connected Jarl Maven is with the Empire. With a single snap of her fingers, we could have a legion here in a fortnight."'' Three options will then be available:<br />
<br />
'''That's impressive.''' ''"Indeed. You don't get to the position my mother's achieved by blind luck... her business sense and diplomatic skills are legendary."''<br><br />
'''Interesting.''' ''"If you say so."''<br><br />
'''I think you're exaggerating.''' ''"I don't care what you think. The Empire put Maven on the throne for a reason. That's all you need to know."''<br />
<br />
As jarl, Maven will occasionally talk to her steward about ruling Riften:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_10.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"There's still the matter of the prisoner to discuss. Now, his family is willing to contribute handsomely if we release him."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"The execution will proceed as planned."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"But, mother... this is quite a sizable contribution and the crime doesn't befit such a harsh punishment."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Are you going soft on me, Hemming? Perhaps I made the wrong choice installing you as steward."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"No, mother. The execution will proceed as planned."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, have you dispatched that letter I gave you yesterday?"''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Yes, and I sent it with our fastest courier and under the cover of night, exactly as you specified."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Good. If I need to light a few fires in order to get what we need to defend this place from the Stormcloaks, so be it."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"I'm almost certain he'll reach the Imperial City tomorrow, so we should have an answer by the end of the week."''<br />
<br />
====Maul====<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maul_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"Last thing the Black-Briars need is some stranger stickin' their nose where it doesn't belong."'']]<br />
Maul is not a Black-Briar by blood, but is the brute watching the back of Maven and her family, as well as making sure to warn strangers to stay out of the Black-Briars' business. If Maven is appointed jarl, Maul will become her new [[Skyrim:Housecarl|housecarl]] and will move into Mistveil Keep with her and Hemming, so his ties and loyalty to the Black-Briars are strong enough to make him part of the family. The first time you visit Riften, Maul will be watching the main gate for strangers and will immediately seek you out: ''"I don't know you. You in Riften lookin' for trouble?"'' If you just exit conversation he will get angry: ''"You can pretend not to hear me all you want... but you better stay out of the Black-Briars' business."'' If you continue, three options will be available to you, each followed by a warning from Maul.<br />
<br />
'''Just passing through.''' ''"Yeah? Well, I got news for you; there's nothing to see here. Last thing the Black-Briars need is some stranger stickin' their nose where it doesn't belong."''<br><br />
'''What's it to you?''' ''"Don't say something you'll regret. Last thing the Black-Briars need is some loudmouth tryin' to meddle in their affairs."''<br><br />
'''I'm not scared of you.''' ''"That's the wrong answer. Last thing the Black-Briars need around here is some troublemaker tryin' to steal a piece of the action."''<br />
<br />
He will then elaborate on the Black-Briars and himself: ''"The Black-Briars have Riften in their pocket and the Thieves Guild watchin' their back, so keep your nose out of their business. Me? I'm Maul. I watch the streets for 'em. If you need dirt on anythin', I'm your guy... but it'll cost you."'' If you try and exit conversation, Maul will get angry, saying: ''"Hey, you. Get over here, I want to talk to you."'', or ''"Yeah, walk away like a good doggie. Just stay out of the Black-Briars' business and maybe we'll give you a bone."'' and will not talk to you anymore, simply dismissing you, repeating: ''"Stay out of the Black-Briars' business and you'll live longer."'' If you choose to stay in conversation you will have to pass a [[Skyrim:Persuade|persuasion]] check. Note that you will need a [[Skyrim:Speech|Speech]] skill of at least 25 to persuade him. When successfully persuaded, Maul will be willing to share some facts about the infamous family: ''"Well, you got Maven, she pretty much runs the whole operation. She's got friends in high places if you know what I mean. She's also got ties to the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] and the Thieves Guild, so basically no one can touch her. Just remember, if she tells you to do somethin'... you damn well better do exactly what she says."'' If you ask if he knows anything about the Thieves Guild, he'll reply: ''"You kiddin'? My brother Dirge works in their hideout. I used to run with them myself, but took a job with Maven after they started hittin' a rough patch. If you want to get in on that action, find [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] in the marketplace. I'm sure he could use someone like you."''<br />
<br />
When he moves into Mistveil Keep, Maul will be a bit more talkative and you can ask him what he thinks of the [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]]: ''"Hey, if the Empire and the Stormcloaks want to kill each other over some foolish cause, I say let 'em. All I care about is two things: watchin' Maven's back and countin' the gold she pays me to do it."'' He will also share his interpretation on his new job as housecarl: ''"As long as she continues to keep me at her side, she can count on my blade to protect her. To be honest, I doubt someone would be stupid enough to make an attempt on Maven... sorry, Jarl Maven's life. But just in case, I'll be ready for them."''<br />
<br />
In Mistveil Keep, Maul will still take care of Maven's business, both official and unofficial:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Any word about our little problem in the Ratway?"''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"I've spoken to Brynjolf and he assures me it'll be taken care of."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Next time you speak to him, tell him to clean up his own messes. I'm not about to jeopardize this position for a bunch of low-life thugs."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"I'll let him know."''<br />
<br />
'''Maul''': ''"My agents are telling me that we've appropriated the caravan from [[Lore:Hammerfell|Hammerfell]]... with minimal losses."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"For what it's costing me, I should be handed the merchandise on a silver platter."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"The coin isn't just for the men, there's a lot of people that need to be compensated in order to make this happen."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"And a hefty cut for yourself too I'm sure. Just see to it the items are secured and the rest disposed of properly this time."''<br />
<br />
Maul will occasionally approach Hemming and ask him about Maven's newfound power.<br />
<br />
'''Maul''': ''"Your mother seems to have taken to her seat quite well."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Yes, she's been grooming herself for this for quite a long time."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"It's surprising the Council is allowing a Nord rule Riften under the Imperial flag. That can't be their first choice."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Let's just say my mother knows which pockets to line and keep it at that."''<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
===The Townsfolk===<br />
Maven Black-Briar is known all over Riften and the majority of the townsfolk have an opinion on the influential family, for better or worse. [[Skyrim:Sigaar|Sigaar]], the carriage driver stationed near [[Skyrim:Riften Stables|Riften Stables]], will talk about them saying: ''"You can get a room at the Bee and Barb, but mind your coin purse -- it's no secret the Thieves' Guild makes its home here. Oh, and if you meet Maven Black-Briar, stay on her good side. This is her city, and nobody else's."'' When you have gained access to Riften, you will meet [[Skyrim:Mjoll the Lioness|Mjoll the Lioness]] and her faithful follower [[Skyrim:Aerin|Aerin]] engaged in conversation about the overly corrupt city:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Mjoll_the_Lioness_06.jpg|thumb|right|''"Be careful, Mjoll. The Thieves Guild has Maven Black-Briar at her back."'']]<br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"I had another run-in with the Thieves Guild."''<br><br />
'''Aerin''': ''"Be careful, Mjoll. The Thieves Guild has [[Skyrim:Maven Black-Briar|Maven Black-Briar]] at her back. One snap of her fingers, and you could end up in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]]... or worse."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"They represent the reason I'm here. I can't just ignore them, Aerin."''<br><br />
'''Aerin''': ''"I know. I just don't want you to leave; you're the only good thing that's happened to this city in a long time."''<br />
<br />
When you talk to Mjoll, she will readily tell you about the decaying city, and the Black-Briar family: ''"Maven Black-Briar, the matriarch of the family, represents everything that's wrong with this city. She's bribed countless officials, has friends back in the Imperial City and freely associates with the Thieves Guild. I've tried everything I can to protect Riften's citizens from her family, but to no avail."'' She will also tell you about the rest of the family: ''"Well, there's Ingun Black-Briar, Maven's daughter. Strange girl. She likes to spend time down in Elgrim's Elixirs working on her alchemy. Then you have Hemming, Maven's son; spoiled brat and heir to her empire. He follows her word like a loyal dog follows its master. And finally, Sibbi; the worst of all of them. He's in Riften Jail for murder."'' The welcome committee continues with Maven's right hand, [[Skyrim:Maul|Maul]] (see [[#Maul|this section]] for details), who will warn you about meddling in the affairs of the Black-Briars. In Mistveil Keep, reigning Jarl [[Skyrim:Laila Law-Giver|Laila Law-Giver]] has seemingly been manipulated into believing that Maven has nothing to do with the Thieves Guild, saying: ''"We're all eager to see them brought to justice. Maven Black-Briar has assured me that they're being dealt with appropriately. As one of our city's most influential citizens, {{sic|she's has|description=wording}} taken it upon herself to oversee their incarceration. Sadly, they're proving elusive but I have confidence that Maven won't give up until this city has been rid of them all."'' Incidentally, her steward [[Skyrim:Anuriel|Anuriel]] thinks it is more than a question of simple manipulation, as she will tell you: ''"Lately I've had my hands full suppressing these ridiculous accusations of corruption in the keep."'' She will then elaborate: ''"There are those that believe the Jarl does nothing for this city... that it's corrupt and run by the Black-Briar family. I can assure you that this is entirely false. We are fully in control of everything."'' However, a visit from Maven proves her wrong:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_06.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Laila''': ''"Maven! Always a pleasure to receive you. What can I help you with today?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Thank you, Laila. I wanted to discuss the protection of my shipments. I'm certain you're aware of the loss I sustained a fortnight ago."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"Yes, indeed. An entire caravan shipment of your mead taken by Imperial soldiers. What of it?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Well, I'm also certain you're aware that our own city guard failed to provide the protection required to ensure safe passage of the shipment."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"Indeed. We lost three soldiers in that attack. A sad day for Riften."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Quite. To be brief, I need compensation for the lost shipment. Since Riften was responsible for it, Riften should pay for it. I have payments to make you realize. If I can't make them, I can't make Black-Briar Mead."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"We... don't have enough to..."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Laila, Riften is my home, but if my meadery can't be safe here, I'll just move it elsewhere."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"No, that won't be necessary. You'll have compensation for your loss."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Thank you, Laila."''<br />
<br />
Another conversation between Laila Law-Giver and Anuriel hints at how much power Maven has:<br />
<br />
'''Anuriel''': ''"My lady, Maven Black-Briar has sent word that she requires your seal in order to expand her shipments into Morrowind."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"But of course! Tell her she'll have it. Maven is one of the few people I can trust and I'd be delighted to give her my blessing."''<br><br />
'''Anuriel''': ''"Yes, my lady. I will pass the good news on to her."''<br />
<br />
Below Mistveil Keep, in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]], where Sibbi Black-Briar is currently imprisoned to teach him some manners, sits another prisoner, [[Skyrim:Molgrom Twice-Killed|Molgrom Twice-Killed]] who suffers the same punishment as Sibbi, simply for crossing the Black-Briar family. You can ask him why he is in prison, and he'll reply, ''"Because big, bad Brynjolf doesn't like the way I play thief. Look, he says we needed coin, so I got coin. Who cares if people got hurt? Blood washes off septims. Now I'm sitting in here counting skeever droppings while he's drinking Black-Briar mead with Maven."'' Should he be asked if prison is a Guild punishment, Molgrom will tell you about Maven's relations and how she gains unofficial authority from it: ''"Hey, if you're in good with Maven you've pretty much got it made. She's got friends in high places, and I don't just mean in Skyrim. So getting the guards to throw me in here as a 'punishment' was about as easy as falling off a log."''<br />
<br />
Each and every day, Maven will pay a visit to the many merchants in the marketplace, seemingly to remind all of them who is in charge of Riften:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_08.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Madesi''': ''"Lady Maven, how may I help you?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Is it true that you refused to sell one of your... trinkets to Hemming?"''<br><br />
'''Madesi''': ''"Please, milady, it was only because he threatened me. He said he'd have me thrown in the prisons if I didn't give him what he wanted! I can't afford to just give my jewelry away!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Next time a Black-Briar asks for something, I suggest you respond quickly and affirmatively."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_07.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Haelga, I like you, so I'm only going to say this one time. If you ever try and 'practice the [[Lore:Dibella|Dibellan]] arts' with Hemming again, I'll make sure that pretty little face loses its beauty."''<br><br />
'''Haelga''': ''"He wasn't protesting, Maven."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Of course he wasn't you stupid whore; he's a man. Now I'm not going to warn you again. Is that clear?"''<br><br />
'''Haelga''': ''"Very well."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't like being made a fool of, Brand-Shei. Not one bit."''<br><br />
'''Brand-Shei''': ''"Maven, please. I didn't know it was your man. Had I known, I would have looked the other way, I swear."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Turning him in to the guards? Have you joined Mjoll as official peacekeepers of Riften? You cost me a lot of coin."''<br><br />
'''Brand-Shei''': ''"Maven, I... please, don't hurt me."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_09.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"Maven. How's the criminal underworld treating you this fine day?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You may have everyone else impressed around here, but you don't impress me. You couldn't touch me if you wanted to."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"You're a cold, unfeeling bitch."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"My dear, you have no idea who you're trifling with. Now I suggest you turn around and rattle someone else's cage before you get hurt."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"I'm watching you, Maven Black-Briar. One day, you'll slip up and your Imperial friends won't be there to catch your fall."''<br />
<br />
'''Marise''': ''"Oh! Miss Maven. What can I do for you?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Relax, Marise... I have no quarrel with you. I just wish to speak a moment."''<br><br />
'''Marise''': ''"Yes?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You watch the market, you hear the rumors around Riften. What have you heard about these dragons?"''<br><br />
'''Marise''': ''"I heard a traveler say that Helgen was destroyed by one of those creatures. Didn't leave a soul alive they said."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Interesting. Keep your ears open for me and tell me if you hear anything more. I'll make it worth your while."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Grelka, how fast can you get your hands on some longbows?"''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"I don't usually deal in weapons, but I know someone who can get them for me. You mind paying a little extra to get them fast?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't care what it costs. I need four longbows and four score of arrows. Just make it happen."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"I'll contact my man tonight and let you know what he says."''<br />
<br />
At the Bee and Barb, Maven will often dine with [[Skyrim:Vulwulf Snow-Shod|Vulwulf Snow-Shod]]:<br />
<br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"Maven! So good to see you again. Hoist a flagon and celebrate with me!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Vulwulf, it's always a pleasure. When you're standing downwind of me."''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"Sorry, what was that?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Nothing Vulwulf.... cheers."''<br />
<br />
She will also try to persuade him to fund a shipment:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"I'm telling you, Vulwulf, it's the investment you've been waiting for."''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"So I pay for the weapon shipments and you oversee their distribution to the [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloaks]]?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Exactly. What better way to help the cause than to put weapons into the hands of young Nord warriors dying for their homeland?"''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"[[Lore:Shor|Shor's]] Beard! You're right! I'll do it... provided you supervise the shipments personally."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Don't worry, I'll treat those shipments as if I owned them myself."''<br />
<br />
Her aggressive behavior leads to even more talk behind her back, specifically during the conversations of the citizens in everyday life.<br />
<br />
'''Drifa''': ''"Mjoll! I'm glad I found you."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"What is it, Drifa? What's the matter?"''<br><br />
'''Drifa''': ''"It's Bersi. He's getting so angry about the corruption in Riften, he said he's going to walk right up to Maven and give her a piece of his mind."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"If I see him, I'll make sure he doesn't do anything brash. Don't worry."''<br />
<br />
'''Dinya''': ''"Good day, Grelka."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"What's so good about it? I've got deadbeats who don't pay me, the city guard looking over my shoulder and Maven Black-Briar breathing down my neck."''<br><br />
'''Dinya''': ''"You poor thing. You should come by the temple, speak to Maramal."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"Religion isn't going to save me. So unless Mara is going to start raining coin from the heavens, why don't you mind your own business."''<br />
<br />
Also, if Maven is appointed jarl, the confused court wizard [[Skyrim:Wylandriah|Wylandriah]] will face more problems than ever before:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Why are the potions I requested not completed?"''<br><br />
'''Wylandriah''': ''"I'm sorry, milady. The components for those elixirs are quite volatile and in some cases, very dangerous to handle. I must take care."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Excuses are not acceptable in my court. When I ask for something I expect results, and I expect them immediately."''<br><br />
'''Wylandriah''': ''"Yes, milady. Sorry, {{sic|milday|milady}}. They will be completed."''<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
===The Black-Briar Meadery===<br />
The [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]] is the main attraction in Riften, and [[#Hemming Black-Briar|according]] to Hemming Black-Briar, the business that put Riften back on the map, as it brings income and employment to the otherwise corrupt and decaying town. [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Mead|Black-Briar Mead]], and the slightly more luxurious [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Reserve|Black-Briar Reserve]], is brewed and bottled at the meadery and distributed to thirsty customers in taverns all over Skyrim, along with the neighboring island of [[Dragonborn:Solstheim|Solstheim]]. (Skyrim citizens comments)<br />
<br />
The Black-Briar Meadery is the brainchild of Maven Black-Briar, and provides the majority of her income, so she will spare no expense and, in case she is rejected, use all the dirty tricks in the book to wipe out competition, as evident during [[#Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. Not surprisingly, the Riften citizens down an awful lot of Black-Briar Mead, although the quality of the brew is questionable at best. (Riften citizens comments)<br />
<br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Keerava, we're running low on Black-Briar Mead."''<br><br />
'''Keerava''': ''"If only Maven would stop raising the price on it maybe I could afford to stock more cases."''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"We could always look for another brand."''<br><br />
'''Keerava''': ''"That isn't an option. Maven sees me serve a competitor's brand here and we may as well dig our own graves."''<br />
<br />
If you stumble upon the tragedy-ridden [[Skyrim:Asgeir Snow-Shod|Asgeir Snow-Shod]], he will tell you that even Maven had to start somewhere when she wanted the Meadery up and running. Asgeir is in mourning due to his sister Lilija's death and will, after telling you about the tragedy, finish with: ''"Anyway, I'm glad my work at the Black-Briar Meadery keeps me busy. Helps me keep my mind off of things."'' When asked if he is involved with the meadery he will tell you: ''"Yes, actually. I'm partnered with Maven Black-Briar. I put up a chunk of the gold she needed to get the place off the ground. We've been staggeringly successful so far. In fact, I'm almost surprised how quickly she's generated business for us. My name may not be on the label, but some of my blood, sweat and tears are in every drop. Uh, figuratively of course."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Ungrien_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"She's an absolute pleasure to work for!"'']]<br />
Inside the Meadery you will find an insecure [[Skyrim:Ungrien|Ungrien]] working the tasting counter, trying his very best to sell the mediocre brew with: ''"Welcome! Allow me to recommend the Black-Briar Mead... the purest brew in all of Skyrim! and We serve only the best here... Black-Briar Mead. May I get one for you?"'' When asked abot the quality of the mead, Ungrien will give you the full sales speech: ''"Lady Maven's been developing the secret recipe for Black-Briar Mead over the last several decades. She uses a very secret blend of spices, fresh honey from Goldenglow Estate and specially constructed aging casks to ensure the best flavor. Even when you get to the last sip in your flagon, it'll taste just as good as the first!"'' When you point out that his recommendation sounds rehearsed he will quickly break down: ''"Damn it! Sorry. I'm not very good at this. Look, just don't say anything to Maven, will you? I've spent weeks trying to get that right and if she sees how stupid I am, she'll get rid of me."'' When you tell him there are worse things than getting fired, he will hint: ''"Yeah... fired. Sure. That's what I meant."'' When asked about Maven, he will return to his rehearsed lines: ''"She's an absolute pleasure to work for! In fact, I almost feel guilty accepting pay from her. Why, just this last week I was commenting to my fellow meadery workers just how lucky we are to be working for such a charitable family."'' You can now either persuade, bribe, or choose to believe him; the latter will net you another obvious lie: ''"I thank my lucky stars every time I look to the night sky that Maven took me in and gave me this opportunity."'' A failed persuasion will make him say: ''"That is the truth, my friend! Maven is a saint and don't let anyone tell you otherwise."'' However, a successful persuasion or bribe will make him tell you the truth: ''"Okay, look. If I'm caught saying anything bad about the meadery or the family, I'm a dead man. I'm the fourth person to work the tasting counter in the last year. The last three are at the bottom of Lake Honrich. Just take my advice and just get out of Riften as soon as you can."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Ungrien_03.jpg|thumb|right|''"I can't take it anymore, Tythis."'']]<br />
'''Ungrien''': ''"I can't take it anymore, Tythis. Indaryn keeps pushing me around and I'm not even doing anything wrong."''<br><br />
'''Tythis''': ''"Maybe it's time you quit then."''<br><br />
'''Ungrien''': ''"And do what? Losing a job from the Black-Briar family would make me a marked man. No one would ever take me on anywhere else."''<br><br />
'''Tythis''': ''"Don't let it get you down. Indaryn will eventually tire of picking on you and move on to someone else."''<br />
<br />
A [[Skyrim:Attention Employees!|note]] on his desk also reveals that the employees in the meadery are subject to random searches due to missing mead barrels, written by brewmaster [[Skyrim:Indaryn|Indaryn]] on behalf of Maven. During opening hours, you will find Indaryn in the meadery as well, often overlooking the brewing vats and the employees. Several notes in the tasting room hint at him being a harsh leader, although a very specific [[Skyrim:Note From Maven|note from Maven]] reveals that Maven disapproves of him acting on her behalf. When asked if he runs the Black-Briar Meadery, he will explain: ''"Maven Black-Briar wants me to keep the mead flowing and that's what I aim to do despite all these lazy good-for-nothings that work for us. Ever since I took over as the foreman the production of our mead has never been more profitable. And if the meadery is profitable, I get rich. Get the picture?"'' He will also tell you about Maven: ''"Lady Maven could buy or sell anyone in Skyrim. I wouldn't be surprised if she's the one pulling the strings around this city. She's always welcome in Mistveil Keep and between you and me, I'm pretty sure she even has some pretty influential friends within the Empire. I'd also warn you not to cross her. She employs quite a few... troubleshooters to take care of messy problems."''<br />
<br />
Troubleshooters can be found in the Meadery staff as well, as [[Skyrim:Romlyn Dreth|Romlyn Dreth]] can be found working the vats, and will openly make you an offer for some cheap mead when you get close. When asked if he works at the meadery, he will respond: ''"Sure. How do you think I get my hands on the good stuff and offer it so cheap? You think old Maven is just giving it away to anyone? Good thing she makes so much money. Makes it easier for merchandise like this to fall through the cracks."'' When asked what he is selling, he will introduce his selection with: ''"Nothing but the best. Black-Briar Mead... fresh from the vat. Best of all, you don't have to pay the ridiculous prices Maven charges. So what do you say to that?"'' This undercover business is obviously reflected in the amount of mead going out of the meadery, and you can witness a suspicious Indaryn have this conversation with Romlyn:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Indaryn_03.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"Romlyn, I've been meaning to speak to you. I did a count at the meadery and we're four cases short... again."''<br><br />
'''Romlyn''': ''"What are you saying? You think I had something to do with that?"''<br><br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"I'm not accusing you of anything. Yet."''<br><br />
'''Romlyn''': ''"The Dreth family doesn't steal, Indaryn."''<br><br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"For your sake, I hope you're right. Because if it is you, and Maven finds out, the Dreth family is going to be one member smaller."''<br />
<br />
However, Romlyn will also ask you for a favor during the quest [[Skyrim:Under_the_Table|Under the Table]]. When asked if he is selling cheap mead, he will correct you: ''"No, no friend. You've got it all wrong. I'm not selling cheap mead. I'm selling good mead for cheap... Black-Briar Mead. I sell cases of it for half of what the inns and taverns pay through the Meadery. All I need is someone to deliver it for me. If anyone saw me leave Riften, they'd get suspicious."'' He will then tell you what needs to be done: ''"I need someone to take this small keg of Black-Briar Mead to Wilhelm at the Vilemyr Inn in Ivarstead. Drop it off and he'll trade you something for the delivery. Keep it as payment for the legwork. Oh, and if you bump into Indaryn from the meadery, keep your mouth shut. He'd rat us out in a second."'' While [[Skyrim:Wilhelm|Wilhelm]] will accept the keg and hand you some jewelry, you can also choose to tell Indaryn about Romlyn's undercover business: ''"Aye, I suspected as much but I've never been able to catch that little sneak with proof."'' When shown the keg, he will get angry: ''"That fetcher! I gave him the same keg just this morning and told him to store it in the cellars. Oh, he'll rot in prison for this one I promise you. As soon as Maven finds out, it's all over for him. Here, take this as a bit of a reward for nabbing our little thief."'' However, Maven will never hear about Romlyn, who will remain an employee at the Black-Briar Meadery indefinitely.<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
* In the basement of the Black-Briar Manor in Riften is a locked room containing the remains of a Black Sacrament ritual, as well as a [[Skyrim:To the Brotherhood|letter from Maven Black-Briar]] complaining that her contract has not been carried out.<br />
* Unlike other jarls, Maven will not be exiled to [[Skyrim:Blue Palace|Blue Palace]] if the Stormcloaks retake Riften and Laila Law-Giver becomes the jarl again. However, after Riften is liberated, Maven can be found walking away from Solitude.{{vn|Is this true?}}<br />
* [[Skyrim:Lillith Maiden-Loom|Lillith Maiden-Loom]] claims to be friends with Maven, though Maven never mentions her.<br />
* In a cut part of the [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloak]] questline, there was going to be a siege of Riften in the event that you had lost the city in either a battle or as a result of [[Skyrim:Season_Unending|Season Unending]]. This siege would play out almost exactly the same way that the [[Skyrim:Battle_for_Whiterun_(Stormcloaks)|Battle for Whiterun]] does in the main game. Upon reaching the throne room, you would be greeted to this exchange (note that this is the same dialogue that would play between [[Skyrim:Yngvar_the_Singer|Yngvar]] and [[Skyrim:Thongvor_Silver-Blood|Jarl Thongvor Silver-Blood]] if you were taking the city of Markarth back for the Empire under the same circumstances). Please click the show button for full dialogue.<br />
{{Showhide/Start|Deleted Dialogue →}}<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Halt in the name of the Jarl!"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Somehow I doubt that will persuade them."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Stay back, lord!"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"If they want my city, they're going to have to take it from me personally."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Protect the Jarl with your lives!"''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Once the ensuing battle had ended, this exchange would play (again, this is the same dialogue that would play if you were taking the city of Markarth back for the Empire under the same circumstances):<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''[[Skyrim:Laila_Law-Giver|Laila]]''':||''"Ahhh... It's good to be home."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Welcome back. I've left a few surprises for you to discover."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"How kind of you. And I've brought an army to give you a going away parade."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''[[Skyrim:Galmar_Stone-Fist|Galmar]]''':||''"If you two are finished with the touching homecoming, there's a city in chaos out there."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"Indeed. Come, there is much to be done."''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
If you were taking Riften for the Empire however, the battle would conclude with this exchange between Laila, Maven, and [[Skyrim:Legate_Rikke|Legate Rikke]]:<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"I think I'll like living here."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"So enters Maven Black-Briar, the glint of Imperial coin in her eyes. So tell me, what's the price for a woman's integrity these days?"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"You never were able to see the forest for the trees, were you?"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"We Nords were proud warriors once. And we still could be. Evidenced by the men and women who fought and died bravely today. You could see that if you had any faith left in that black heart of yours. But no, you're content to snatch scraps falling off the Emperor's table. Fine. Take my home. Take my city. May it burn down around you."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"A bit melodramatic, even for you Laila. Pack your things and go."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"One day when you can see past your own interests, you will come to see that we were right. And this... This is all wrong."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Rikke''':||''"If you ladies are finished bickering, there's much to be done. Jarl Black-Briar put your government together. Do it now, or there will be rioting in the streets. We must move quickly to prevent further violence."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Jarl Black-Briar. I must admit, I do like the sound of that. And don't worry about any rioting, Legate. I have it under control. We will soon begin publicly executing captured men. That should send a clear message to the people."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"Yes, but not likely the one you intend."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Oh? I don't expect anyone to miss my meaning. Come, Legate. There's much to do."''<br />
|}<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
{{Bug|Some dialogue incorrectly identifies Maven as the mother of Ingun and Sibbi, while in actuality she is their grandmother.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Talking to Maul about the Thieves Guild was supposed to give you a dialogue option with [[Skyrim:Dirge|Dirge]] later on; however, due to an oversight, Dirge will never have the dialogue option so his comment about Maul and Maven will never be heard: ''"Maul? Yeah. That jerk works for Maven Black-Briar now. Left me down here watching this garbage heap. I guess he's better at all that talking stuff anyway. I'd just mess everything up."''|USKP|1.3.1}}<br />
{{Bug|[[Skyrim:Anuriel|Anuriel]] was supposed to tell you about the Black-Briar family when asked; however, the conditions for the topic will never be met, so her praise will never be heard: ''"Maven Black-Briar is the owner of the largest and most profitable business in all Skyrim, the Black-Briar Meadery. We're pleased to have her in Riften. She brings stability, opportunities for employment and strategic value to our city."''|USKP|2.0.4}}<br />
{{Bug|Romlyn Dreth and Indaryn were supposed to have a conversation related to [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. However, the conditions are set wrong, so it can never be heard:|confirmed=1}}<br />
:'''Romlyn''': ''"So, what do you think of my plan. You in or out?"''<br />
:'''Indaryn''': ''"If you think {{sic|I'd would|description=wording}} make a move like that without asking Maven, you're out of your mind. Doing that would be a fatal mistake."''<br />
:'''Romlyn''': ''"Come on, think about it. She'd reward us!"''<br />
:'''Indaryn''': ''"If you want to go out to Whiterun and burn that meadery down, go right ahead. And when the guard traces it back here, and Maven is implicated, I'll be sure to tell her it was your idea."''<br />
<br />
== Last Dialogue to be Added Somewhere ==<br />
{{vn|needs exact conditions for each line of dialogue, and placed in the right spot on the page}}<br />
'''Delvin Mallory''': ''"Thanks to Maven Black-Briar, we still have some pull in Riften. But get arrested in Whiterun and you'll be tossed right into the prisons."''<br />
<br />
'''???''': ''"I've busted heads for Maven Black-Briar when she wants to keep her name out of it. Pays good, so why not?"''<br />
<br />
'''Keerava''': ''"Riften's biggest exports used to be fishing and honey, until the Black-Briar family moved in. Now the meadery is the biggest game in town."'' and ''"If Maven Black-Briar keeps raising prices on mead, I'll have to resort to watering it down just to make ends meet."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"The Imperials now control Riften and have placed Maven Black-Briar on the Jarl's throne."''</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Krusty&diff=1518985User talk:Krusty2016-06-02T20:13:27Z<p>Krusty: /* Maven Black-Briar WIP */ reply</p>
<hr />
<div>{{TOCright}}<br />
'''Archives''':<br />
{| class=hiddentable width="60%"<br />
|-<br />
|style="width:15%"|[[User talk:Krusty/Arc_2009|2009 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010a|2010 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011a|2011 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2012a|2012 pt 1]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2013a|2013 pt 1]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010b|2010 pt 2]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011b|2011 pt 2]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2012b|2012 pt 2]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010c|2010 pt 3]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011c|2011 pt 3]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010d|2010 pt 4]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011d|2011 pt 4]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||-||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011e|2011 pt 5]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Thanks! ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the speedy deletes on the files that I uploaded that were sitting there waiting to be deleted. Made a few mistakes <_< Glad to see that's been cleaned up. :) [[User:GodRaine|GodRaine]]<sup>[[User talk:GodRaine|Talk]]</sup> 17:52, 30 July 2013 (GMT)<br />
: No problem! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:05, 30 July 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Info On Morrowind Boat Guards On Prison Ship ==<br />
<br />
Since a page on one of the guards got deleted last time I created the page, should the info on the boat guards go on [[MW:Guard|this page]]? It is just that for Morrowind, some players (such as myself) might want to know the armor and things about these characters. <big>''[[User:Dragon Guard|<font color="000080">'''Guard of Dragons'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Dragon Guard|<font color="FF0000">'''Speak To Me'''</font>]]</sup>''</big> 13:08, 7 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
:Because the page got deleted that time, I will be working on it in my [[User:Dragon Guard/Sandbox|Sandbox]], just for now. <big>''[[User:Dragon Guard|<font color="000080">'''Guard of Dragons'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Dragon Guard|<font color="FF0000">'''Speak To Me'''</font>]]</sup>''</big> 15:34, 7 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Kjeld / Kjeld the Younger dialogue ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty, while I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to take [[:File:SR-npc-Kjeld_the_Younger_02.jpg|this shot]] for your image requests, I’ve discovered that the lines in [http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00023e77 DialogueKynesgroveKjeldYoungerKjeld1] are mixed up – Kjeld initiates the conversation by saying ''"Papa, mama's making me do kitchen work again."'' to his son, and so forth. Maybe you want to add a note about this to KtY’s NPC article? --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 13:08, 9 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Bon Appétit! ==<br />
<br />
{{Prize<br />
|width=300<br />
|image=[[File:SR-interior-The Frozen Hearth 03.jpg|250px]]<br />
|title=You have been given an entrée!<br />
|intromessage=Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a delectable array of food because of it (complete with bread, pie, cheese, sweetrolls, apples, and a wine selection!). Good work! The user had the following to say:<br />
}}<br />
Heeeey, Krusty! Nice job with Skjor's page (and ''a lot'' of other pages)! You've been conscientiously and continuously working on so many NPC and quest articles lately. I'm sure the other regular editors also see the huge amount of effort you've been putting in :D. I actually wanted to give you a plateful of cookies but realised it's just not enough :P. So, I came up with my own custom-made prize hee :3. Enjoy the meal! Oh, by the way Krusty, what's that behind you? <small>*Runs off with a slice of cheese and looks for ABCface*</small> ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 16:39, 4 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:Psylocke's right, a plateful of cookies is ''not'' enough. Krusty, you write fantastic pages and have been doing so for a long time. I didn't realize it when I first started using this wiki years ago (as a reader, not an editor), but you had a lot to do with why I got sucked into UESP in the first place- your attention to detail and your goal of full documentation while always seeing the "story" in everything is awesome. So many of the pages you've written are ''exactly'' what I think we should strive for around here. Keep doing what you're doing, bossman. :) — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 02:28, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
::Here, here! --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]]</small></sup> 03:43, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::''Thump…'' Putting another bottle of wine on the table. :) --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 08:46, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::: Thank you so much for the kind words, everybody! Very much appreciated! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:45, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== [[:File:SR-npc-Corpulus Vinius.jpg]] ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Krusty. I ''did'' replace it; I didn't colour-correct the previous image as it is beyond repair. You can clearly see it's a new image from the positioning of the skeever head and the hanging ingredients, and also from the drastic jump in quality indicated by the file size. I used only the natural lighting of the inn (from the candles and chandeliers) per your request, and did not use any [[Skyrim:Light|Light]] spell like in the previous image. Can you please specify what other changes you want? Do you want a full body image? ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 06:27, 26 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Whoah, sorry about that - for whatever reason it didn't update in my sandbox. Sloppiness on my part! I'll get rid of the request now. :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 06:36, 26 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Your Sandbox on Jaree-Ra ==<br />
<br />
During the battle with him, he may say things such as: ''"First you murder my sister, then you massacre my men!"'', ''"You've betrayed me, murdered my sister and massacred my men!"'', ''"To Oblivion with your loot! This ends now!"'' or ''"You don't have what it takes to kill me."''<br />
I am just helping on additions to the sandbox, that's all. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:21, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:I have found something else that is interesting, some unused dialogue or something. [[http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x0007eacc THIS]] '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:27, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
::Yeah, I've looked into it, and it seems like Captain Aldis was assigned to the quest at some point, making a few oddities in the game files. If none of them concerns Jaree-Ra, it's not for his article, but it should be mentioned somewhere (at some point). As for the battle-dialogue, I still have to double-check that when I get back to my PS3. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:38, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::I found something else. [[http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00088ca6 THIS]]. It looks like he had unused dialogue and / or if the player calmed him, he would say some unique lines. This will be a good mystery to solve. Solving unused dialogue. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:46, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::: Finding and documneting unused dialogue is what we do - however, I can do little with the Sandbox right now, but will look into all of that over the weekend. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:52, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::::Yes, I'm sure we will solve the dialogue mystery over the weekend. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:59, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::::: {{ec}} It looks like in the first of DG's links, both lines are conditional on stage 105, which doesn't exist. In the second of DG's links, the first line should be possible at stage 225, which does exist, but I don't see any way of getting to it. If you do, I think you'd get an error when it tries to advance to the non-existent stage 160 (which is part of the scripting I don't think you can see in the CSList). The second line is supposed to be conditional on stage 1500, which also doesn't exist. That one also wants to advance the quest to stage 160. My guess is that there were some substantial rewrites to this quest at some point and they forgot to remove the leftover. Good spots, DG!<br />
<br />
:::::: Oh, and if there's anything you need me to check on in game, completely coincidentally, I'm right in the middle of this quest in my current game. I've put out the lighthouse, but haven't yet gone to the Icerunner, so that's probably the perfect spot if anything needs testing. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 23:34, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
{{od}} Ah, nice work! ☺ If you are in the middle of the quest, maybe see if you can trigger some unique combat lines during your encounter with him in the grotto. I don’t think they’ll trigger, but better safe than sorry. Thanks in advance! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:38, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:I told you that it would be a good mystery to solve. RobinHood has discovered more mysteries - non-existing quest stages. Good work on finding another mystery! :) '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 07:49, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::If I'd been thinking, I would've just looked up those lines earlier. If I had, I would've saved myself some in game testing, but oh well, at least that quest is done now. :) Anyway, all the combat lines in DG's first post are linked to the missing stages, so they'll never actually be said in game. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 08:05, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::So, Captain Aldis played a part in the quest with unused dialogue that wasn't included in the game. We could note that on his page.<br />
<br />
:::And we'll note Jaree-Ra's unused dialogue on his page somewhere.<br />
<br />
:::RobinHood, can I ask you something else while you're here? On [[Dragonborn:Miraak (person)#Notes|Miraak notes]], it lists some potentially unused dialogue that I added some while ago. Can you quickly check out that dialogue in the CK and find out whether it's unused or linked to a missing quest stage. Thanks in advance!<br />
<br />
:::I ''really'' am curious to know if Jaree-Ra says anything unique if you can calm him in the grotto. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 10:08, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::I'm just on my way to bed, but I'll look into these tomorrow. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 10:16, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Well, now I'm confused. Somehow, on entering Broken Oar Grotto, stage 225 ''is'' getting set, though I can't figure out how. Anyway, that means that the dialogue lines "You've betrayed me, murdered my sister and massacred my men!" and "To Oblivion with your loot! This ends now!" are indeed available when Jaree-Ra is calmed. I think Krusty's looking into Captain Aldis, so I'll let him respond to that, and I'll respond to Miraak <s>on that page</s> once I've had a look into it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:05, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::Good luck with that. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:14, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
{{od}}We also have to be sure that the unused dialogue and quest stages are right, so we should slowly and accurately see to them, one at a time. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:18, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Sorry, didn't notice that the Dragonborn thing wasn't a talk page post, so I'm going back to responding here. :) I don't see anything obvious that rules out that dialogue being said. Unfortunately, I'm nowhere near anything Dragonborn-related in my current game, so I can't readily test it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 22:21, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Re: Your Recent Undo to My Chatroom-Like Reply ==<br />
<br />
Did you feel like it was unnecessary for me to ask if RH had any luck yet? '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 20:37, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Yes. This wiki is a collaborative effort, and we never rush each other. Now please, no more posts on my talk, unless it's important. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:20, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
::I understand now. I will refrain from doing this in any future talk page posts. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:28, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Image Request ==<br />
<br />
Hi there, Krusty. I thought I'd bring {{Pl|UESPWiki:Image Requests|diff=1255827&oldid=1255691|this}} to your attention, as you probably have missed it. For that related request, I have already uploaded interior images for it before you even created and placed your request on the image requests page. I'm not sure if you did not notice those images when you checked the article, hence adding that article to the request list, or if you want other images/better images for that article. ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 13:47, 27 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Yep, my mistake - I was going to request another round of images, but I have very little wiki-time these days, so I'll do it later. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:03, 27 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Chat Ban ==<br />
I would like to know why I was banned from the chat, I was not doing anything, it was the other person that was in the chatroom. please tell me what I did wrong if I did do something[[Special:Contributions/82.16.197.204|82.16.197.204]] 23:58, 9 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
: No problem, I just had to shut down the webchat temporarily. It will be back up and running soon. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 00:01, 10 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
:: Okay thank you [[Special:Contributions/82.16.197.204|82.16.197.204]] 00:04, 10 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Removal of A note about Ysolda's somewhat unique animation. ==<br />
<br />
You seem to have "removed false note about carrying a basket; image too" in [[Skyrim:Ysolda]], but this is not a 'false note', really. Ysolda MAY have basket and flowers in her inventory randomly and if she does, she MAY carry them as shown on the image. Granted, it is not what she ALWAYS does, but she certainly does that. There is another animation of this kind-with NPC carrying a bucket, it can be seen in the beginning of the game. So, uh, maybe you will consider undoing your deletion? [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 17:44, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
: To support my claim of being truthful, I hereby present a link to some youtube video. At 0:08 one could see her doing that! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggFVKlGopo [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 17:58, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:: Like many other NPCs, Ysolda has a <code> WhiterunYsoldaCarryBasketPatrol16x4</code> package, meaning she will carry around her basket between 4pm and 8pm. It’s not rare enough to warrant a special note – for examples, visit [[Skyrim:Nilsine Shatter-Shield|Nilsine Shatter-Shield]] between noon and 6pm, or [[Skyrim:Sosia_Tremellia|Sosia Tremellia]] between 7am and 6pm. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:04, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::: Oh, I never saw any other NPC with a flower basket... before... Now I see that I was wrong... =] [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 18:49, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::: No problem! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:52, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Happy Anniversary! ==<br />
<br />
Congrats on passing the 5-year mark. Not a lot of us make it this far! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 07:30, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
:Woohoo Krusty! Seems like the perfect opportunity to thank you for all the support you've given me as I have grown as an editor. <span style="background:#000"> [[User:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">--Nocte&#124;</span>]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Chat&#124;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Look</span>]]</span> 07:37, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Happy Wiki-versary, Krusty! :) [[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 09:44, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: Thanks - time flies when you're having fun! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:00, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: Congratulations! I dub thee "wiki dinosaur", or "wikisaur" for short. • <span style="font-family:DragonscriptRegular;">[[User:Jak Atackka|<span title="Jak Atackka" style="line-height:1.0; font-size:16px; color: #C10;">JA</span>]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|<sup><span title="Talk" style="color:black;">T</span></sup>]]</span> 00:15, 13 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== General:Dawnstar ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty! The Silencer put [[General:Dawnstar]] up for speedy deletion, but I notice in the delete logs that you deleted it back in August 2010 and Rpeh restored it just under a week later citing "Historical necessity". I know it's been almost four years, but do you have any idea what that was about? My best guess would be that it's search-related, but now that we've got a better search, I suspect we don't need it anymore. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 08:30, 8 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
: Hmm, I can’t remember a thing about why it should be kept, so whatever historical necessity it may have seems to have expired. I’d say delete it. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 10:01, 8 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Wikibreak ==<br />
<br />
Krusty!!! Hope your real-life problems get sorted out soon! You will be missed during your absence for sure. Please feel free to let me know if there is aught you need! <span style="background:#000"> [[User:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">--Nocte&#124;</span>]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Chat&#124;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Look</span>]]</span> 08:42, 11 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Input Needed ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty. Can you have a look at [[UESPWiki_talk:Skyrim_Quest_Redesign_Project#finished_pages|this discussion]] and provide feedback. Thanks! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:44, 21 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks RH! Krusty - Was wanting to standardize the headers in the Skyrim Houses pages, as they are pretty much all over the place. I posted this on the [[UESPWiki talk:Skyrim Houses Redesign Project#Header uniformity?|project discussion]] but was advised to double-check with you and Silencer (cc'd on this). I was hoping to start cleaning up some of the Houses, but wanted your input on headers before I do. I was proposing:<br />
==Header 1, no italics, for main space, i.e., The White Phial, Bob's House==<br />
===Header 2, no italics, for any zones===<br />
Let me know your thoughts. --[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 22:33, 4 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Hey Beezer, thanks for the message. I'm on my way to work right now, but agree that the layout is all over the place right now. I'll take a look this evening and post my thoughts here. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 06:21, 5 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Plea for Help ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty, long time no... speak? Just noticed your small [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox2&diff=prev&oldid=1398382 plea for help]whilst moseying around the wiki and have a bit of down time from work coming up, if you can give me some idea of where you want to go with it i'll try my best to help in some fashion. I'm on IRC at the moment, but emails/talk pages will reach me quickly :) -- [[User:Kiz|<span style="color:#388AAD; font-family:Heather BTN; font-size:170%">'''Kiz''']]<sup style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:80%">[[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]]</sup>19:41, 27 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
:Ditto. I'm around as well...Can I help with something?--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 15:05, 28 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Oh, sorry, both of you. I didn’t see your messages. Beezer, you should have received an e-mail, and Kiz – my big problem with the article is: It’s not very exciting. Maven is generally quite boring, so it could use some kind of extra “punch”. I’ve requested more images, but I also need some help with layout. Problem is, I’m not sure what to do with the various “chapters”. Then only thing I’m please with, is the “Related Quests” section, and the way the TOC looks. So, if you have any ideas, please create a sandbox and give it your best shot. Best, --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 07:05, 2 November 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Maven Black-Briar WIP ==<br />
<br />
Hey, Krusty, long time no see!<br />
<br />
Last night I was taking care of inactive WIP tags, and on [[Skyrim:Maven_Black-Briar]] you've had a WIP tag in place since 2014. I had half a mind to remove it alongside the others I cleared the WIP tags from, but considering you made an edit the other day after your year long hiatus, I didn't know if that was a one-off edit from an inactive user or if you were intending to get back to work on the wiki in the near future. So, this is just a quick reminder for you that the tag has been in place for some time without any work on the linked sandbox since 2014, so that you can keep the tag or remove it as you see fix. Cheers! -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 22:26, 20 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
:WIP tag has been removed. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 18:04, 23 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
:: Hey Damon, <br />
<br />
::It’s definitely been a while since I managed to literally OD on Elder Scrolls and Wiki-work – and the fact that the wip-tag remained is quite incredible. However, that Sandbox is bursting with information (I’d say it’s 98% done), so it would be a shame not to use the content – it took quite a while, and I have no clue as to why it was never finished. I’ll try and go through it, add some huh-tags where further research is needed, and then launch the entire thing. <br />
<br />
::Best, --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:13, 2 June 2016 (UTC)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Articles&diff=1515183UESPWiki:Featured Articles2016-05-17T13:13:56Z<p>Krusty: /* Oblivion:Amusei */ vote</p>
<hr />
<div>{{UESPWiki Trail}}[[Category:Message Boards]]__NEWSECTIONLINK__ __NOTOC__ {{protection|move=full}}<br />
[[File:Featured_star.png|50px|left]] '''Featured articles''' are articles the site's editors deem to be of the highest quality and should be held up as an example for other articles. Articles are nominated for this status below. The site's editors then review the nominees for content, style, completeness, and overall quality and place their vote. High quality images can be nominated for featured status at [[UESPWiki:Featured Images|Featured Images]].<br />
<br />
Archives of previous nominations can be found [[/Past Nominations|here]].<br />
<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
==Featured Article Process==<br />
===Nomination===<br />
Any registered member can nominate any article at any time. Nominated articles should be of high quality and meet the site's [[UESPWiki:Style Guide|style guidelines]]. They will frequently be recently completed articles or articles that have just undergone a substantial rewrite, but older articles are also suitable candidates.<br />
<br />
To nominate an article, list it on the bottom of this page with a three-tier heading, <tt>(<code>===Example===</code>)</tt>, and briefly explain why you think the article should be given featured status.<br />
<br />
===Voting===<br />
After an article has been nominated, any registered member can vote to '''support''' or '''oppose''' each nomination. Each member can only vote once for a given article, but a member may change his/her vote by striking out the original vote and replacing it with the revised vote.<br />
<br />
To vote on an article, state whether you '''support''' or '''oppose''' the article for featured article status. A vote should be in bold, and all votes must be signed. For example:<br><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Support''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or''<br><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Oppose''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code><br />
<br />
Commenting with your vote is optional, but if you '''oppose''' a nomination, please state how the article must be improved to get your support for featured status.<br />
<br />
If you are not yet ready to vote but would still like to add your thoughts, you may use:<br />
<br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Comment''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or''<BR><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Question''': <Question> --~~~~</nowiki></code><br />
<br />
And fill in your concerns or questions.<br />
<br />
===Decisions===<br />
UESP [[UESPWiki:Administrators|Administrators]] will periodically make decisions on article nominations. Decisions will only be made if:<br />
* The article has been nominated for more than seven days.<br />
* Five or more votes have been placed.<br />
* A clear consensus has been reached (either '''supported''' or '''opposed''' for featured status).<br />
<br />
Nominations not meeting these criteria will be left open until a decision can be reached.<br />
<br />
Articles whose nominations pass will receive featured article status on the front page for at least one month and receive a small bronze star ([[File:Featured_star.png|15px]]) on the top right corner. If an article achieves featured status before the present featured article's month expires, it must wait its turn.<br />
<br />
==Current Featured Article==<br />
*[[Lore:Sancre Tor]] 16 May, 2016 - 16 June, 2016<br />
<br />
===Next===<br />
''None in queue.''<br />
<br />
==Previous Featured Articles==<br />
{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"<br />
! Article !! Dates Featured<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Snow Elf]] || 15 April, 2016 - 16 May, 2016<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Mountain Climbing]] || 4 January, 2016 - 15 April, 2016<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Necromancy]] || 22 November, 2015 - 4 January, 2016<br />
|-<br />
|[[Dragonborn:Dragonborn (quest)]] || 15 October, 2015 - 22 November, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Online:Pets]] || 8 August, 2015 - 15 October, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Erandur]] || 1 July, 2015 - 8 August, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Sheogorath]] || 29 May, 2015 - 1 July, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Daggerfall:Vampirism]] || 27 April, 2015 - 29 May, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Balgruuf the Greater]] || 25 March, 2015 - 27 April, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Skyrim]] || 23 February, 2015 - 25 March, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Sheogorath]] || 20 January, 2015 - 23 February, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Imperial Legion]] || 15 December, 2014 - 20 January, 2015<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Frostflow Abyss (quest)]] || 27 September, 2014 - 15 December, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Arniel Gane]] || 27 August, 2014 - 27 September, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Tiber Wars]] || 27 July, 2014 - 27 August, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Thonar Silver-Blood]] || 24 June, 2014 - 27 July, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Potema]] || 28 May, 2014 - 24 June, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Isran]] || 24 April, 2014 - 28 May, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Lost to the Ages]] || 22 March, 2014 - 24 April, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Nerevar]] || 22 February, 2014 - 22 March, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Chillrend]] || 22 January, 2014 - 22 February, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Dragonborn:Neloth]] || 22 December, 2013 - 22 January, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Scourge]] || 20 November, 2013 - 22 December, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)]] || 20 October, 2013 - 20 November, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Glarthir]] || 19 September, 2013 - 20 October, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Dragonborn:Lost Legacy]] || 19 August, 2013 - 19 September, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Ulfric Stormcloak]] || 18 July, 2013 - 19 August, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Darkness Returns]] || 18 June, 2013 - 18 July, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Dragonborn:The Final Descent]] || 18 April, 2013 - 18 June, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Irkngthand]] || 16 March, 2013 - 18 April, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Shivering:Jyggalag]] || 11 February, 2013 - 16 March, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Easter Eggs]] || 9 January, 2013 - 11 February, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Dragon]] || 29 November, 2012 - 9 January, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Delphine]] || 29 October, 2012 - 29 November, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Thalmor]] || 28 September, 2012 - 29 October, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Legate Rikke]] || 27 August, 2012 - 28 September, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Cicero]] || 24 July, 2012 - 27 August, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Forsworn]] || 3 May, 2012 - 24 July, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Forbidden Legend]] || 30 April 2012 - 3 May 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Khajiit]] || 30 March, 2012 - 30 April, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:The Black Star]] || 21 February, 2012 - 30 March, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:The Only Cure]] || 10 December, 2011 - 21 February, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Vivec (god)]] || 20 November, 2011 - 10 December, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:The Path of Dawn]] || 16 October, 2011 - 20 November, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Shivering:Syl]] || 30 July, 2011 - 16 October, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Daggerfall:Journey to Aetherius]] || 30 June, 2011 - 30 July, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Morrowind:Vivec (city)|Morrowind:Vivec]] || 30 May, 2011 - 30 June, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Books:The Infernal City]] || 28 April, 2011 - 30 May, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Shivering:Golden Saint]] || January 2011 - April 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Shadowkey:Glacier Crawl]] || November 2010 - January 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Morrowind:Seyda Neen]] || October 2010 - November 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Septim Dynasty|Lore:Septim Dynasty]] || July 2010 - October 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Janus Hassildor|Oblivion:Janus Hassildor]] || May 2010 - July 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Arcane University]] || February 2010 - May 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Black Marsh]] || December 2009 - February 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Rosethorn Hall]] || October 2009 - December 2009<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Adanrel]] || May 2009 - October 2009<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Creatures]] || January 2009 - May 2009<br />
|-<br />
|[[General:Playing DOS Installments under DOSBox]] || November 2008 - January 2009<br />
|-<br />
|[[Morrowind:Armor Artifacts]] || September 2008 - November 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Houses]] || July 2008 - September 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Artifacts]] || June 2008 - July 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Traps]] || May 2008 - June 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Classes]] || October 2007 - May 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Daedric Alphabet]] || November 2006 - October 2007<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Khajiit]] || August 2006 - November 2006 <small>(revoked August 2011)</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Nominations and Votes==<br />
<br />
=== [[Lore:Wars]] ===<br />
<br />
Looking through the archives, I'm actually surprised this article has not been nominated at all in the past. It's very well written and well laid out. Each war is well-described, both those that do and don't have their own dedicated articles. I feel the only thing that the article still could use is mention of the Planemeld (since the Oblivion Crisis is listed), but even without it, it still meets the requirements of FA status.<br />
<br />
*'''Support''': As nominator. [[User:Schiffy|<span style="font-family:Oblivion; color:red; font-size:18px">Schiffy</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Schiffy|<font color="Olive">Talk</font>]])</sup> 04:05, 22 October 2015 (UTC)<br />
*'''Comment''': It definitely looks like a lot of effort has been put into this list. However, it's not really an article.. it just lists the historical events. So I'm unsure whether to support or oppose. [[User:Tib|Tib]] ([[User talk:Tib|talk]]) 12:37, 29 January 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': If something as silly and subjective as a list of Easter Eggs can become a Featured Article, then I see no reason why an educational (from a Tamrielic perspective anyway) and well sourced list of major conflicts can't be a Featured Article. This is an excellent article, in my opinion. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 20:44, 22 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[Skyrim:Passive Creatures]]===<br />
One of my favourite Skyrim articles. It details all of the game's obscure quasi-creatures and has great imagery.<br />
*'''Support''': As nominator. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:24, 16 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': This is an excellent article full of great images. I was unaware of a lot of the minor details discussed in the article too, like being able to use melee attacks or Unrelenting Force on some of the passive creatures, so the article was a very interesting read for me as well. I'd imagine other readers may be unaware of these facts as well, so I think the article would be a good choice to put on the main page. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 16:54, 16 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Oppose''': Whereas the above list on wars is sourced and informative, this page is, for the most part, filled with one-liners. For the most part, this is what there is available to use, but it's still not a particularly interesting page as it sits. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 20:44, 22 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': A nicely designed/layed-out page that details all relevant info succinctly with good use of quality images. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 10:03, 15 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Oppose''': Agreed with damon. Too many one-liners. While well written for what's given, not quite FA-worthy. [[User:Schiffy|<span style="font-family:Oblivion; color:red; font-size:18px">Schiffy</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Schiffy|<font color="Olive">Talk</font>]])</sup> 21:18, 15 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Oppose''': Agree with Damon and Schiffy. [[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="font-family:Oblivion; color:red; font-size:18px">DRAGON GUARD</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragon Guard|<font color="blue">TALK</font>]])</sup> 22:17, 15 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[Oblivion:Amusei]]===<br />
A fully-written, comprehensive article on one of the more memorable characters involved in the Thieves Guild questline of Oblivion. The article is complete with images that capture many memorable moments of the Argonian's interesting career. The article is an excellent example of what the OBNPCRP can accomplish and would be a great fit for the main page. <br />
<br />
*'''Support''': As nominator [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 16:54, 16 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': Another perfect OBNPCRP article. I especially like the section detailing his faction rank changes. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:48, 16 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': Per the above. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 20:44, 22 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': A superb article well researched, well written, good lay-out. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 10:12, 15 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': Very informative about his role throughout the questline, and well laid-out. I also agree with Legoless here about the rank section. It's very interesting. [[User:Schiffy|<span style="font-family:Oblivion; color:red; font-size:18px">Schiffy</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Schiffy|<font color="Olive">Talk</font>]])</sup> 21:18, 15 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': Good old Amusei! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 13:13, 17 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[Lore:Almalexia_(god)]]===<br />
I may just be biased towards Morrowind-based characters, but Almalexia is one of my favorite characters, being of the Tribunal and close to Nerevar, who I am always pointing out is my favorite person to study as a Tamrielic historian. Here is a well sourced and informative article on the Lady of Mercy, the wife of Lord Nerevar, a lover of Vivec's after his death, and the main antagonist to Tribunal who attempted to kill her reincarnated lover, the Nerevarine. I love this article, so let's add another to the list of articled queued up to eventually be voted on!<br />
<br />
*'''Support''': -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 20:44, 22 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': While I don't normally vote on lore articles as I don't know enough to judge what makes a good lore piece. This one is a good and interesting read. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 10:45, 15 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Support''': A good, lengthy, detailed lore article about a deity always has a place on the FA list, in my opinion. [[User:Schiffy|<span style="font-family:Oblivion; color:red; font-size:18px">Schiffy</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Schiffy|<font color="Olive">Talk</font>]])</sup> 21:18, 15 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[Skyrim:Firiniel's End]]===<br />
This is an excellent item page. Not only does it contain all the basic information a reader would want to know about the item, it also includes the backstory associated with it. The image of the item from where it appears in-game is a nice touch as well. The bow is a rather obscure item too so featuring this article may provide some new information to even those who are fairly familiar with Skyrim. <br />
<br />
*'''Support''': As nominator. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 21:07, 3 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Comment''': I'm not really sure what our history of item pages being featured articles is. That aside, being a single-situation item, the article is very short, possibly ''too'' short. Unfortunately, it can only really remain that way since any more information wouldn't be relevant to the item itself. I can't quite decide one way or the other, myself. [[User:Schiffy|<span style="font-family:Oblivion; color:red; font-size:18px">Schiffy</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Schiffy|<font color="Olive">Talk</font>]])</sup> 14:46, 10 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
** [[Skyrim:Chillrend]] and [[Lore:Scourge]] were both fairly short and have previously been featured. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 16:44, 10 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
*'''Oppose''': Well written/good use of quality images. Visually the page looks unbalanced with all the writing above the related quest subheader, moving the second paragraph below this could help. Needs leveled stats section. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 10:25, 15 May 2016 (UTC)<br />
**I don't believe the weapon is leveled, so a leveled stats section wouldn't be necessary for this article. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 20:21, 15 May 2016 (UTC)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Images&diff=1447941UESPWiki:Featured Images2015-05-20T22:13:07Z<p>Krusty: /* File:SR-quest-Bolstering the Ranks 06.jpg */ vote</p>
<hr />
<div>{{UESPWiki Trail}}[[Category:Message Boards]]__NEWSECTIONLINK__ __NOTOC__ [[File:Featured_star.png|50px|left]] '''Featured images''' follow the same nomination process as for [[UESPWiki:Featured Articles|Featured Articles]], but as they appear in a different section of the main page, a separate series of [[#Nominations and Votes|votes]] is held to decide which images meet the required standard.<br />
<br />
For an image to be eligible for Featured status, it must be used in a UESP article. This is to prevent specially-taken beauty shots from stealing the limelight. <br />
<br />
A gallery of older Featured Images can be found [[/Old FIs|here]]. Similarly, the archives of previous nominations can be found [[/Past Nominations|here]]. Note that not all failed nominations are included.<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
==Featured Image Process==<br />
===Nomination===<br />
Any registered member can nominate any image at any time. Nominated images should be of high quality and meet the site's [[Help:Images#Image_Standards|image standards]].<br />
<br />
To nominate an image, list it on the bottom of this page with a three-tier heading, <tt>(<code>===Example===</code>)</tt>, and briefly explain why you think the image should be given featured status.<br />
<br />
'''Example:'''<br />
{{Example Table|width=100%|<br />
<big>'''[[:File:SR-quest-Dragon Rising 05.jpg]]'''</big><br />
[[File:SR-quest-Dragon Rising 05.jpg|thumb]]<br />
This is another great image. It appears cinematic, which is rare for the TES series. <br />
*'''Support''' as nominator. [[User:Elliot|elliot]]&nbsp;<small>([[User_talk:Elliot|talk]])</small> 19:13, 5 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
}}<br />
===Voting===<br />
After an image has been nominated, any registered member can vote to '''support''' or '''oppose''' each nomination. Each member can only vote once for a given image, but a member may change his/her vote by striking out the original vote and replacing it with the revised vote.<br />
<br />
To vote on an image, state whether you '''support''' or '''oppose''' the image for featured image status. A vote should be in bold, and all votes must be signed. For example:<br><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Support''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or''<br><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Oppose''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code><br />
<br />
Commenting with your vote is optional, but if you '''oppose''' a nomination, please state how the image must be improved to get your support for featured status.<br />
<br />
If you are not yet ready to vote but would still like to add your thoughts, you may use:<br />
<br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Comment''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or''<BR><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Question''': <Question> --~~~~</nowiki></code><br />
<br />
And fill in your concerns or questions.<br />
<br />
===Decisions===<br />
UESP [[UESPWiki:Administrators|Administrators]] will periodically make decisions on image nominations. Decisions will only be made if:<br />
* The image has been nominated for more than seven days.<br />
* Five or more votes have been placed.<br />
<br />
Nominations not meeting these criteria will be left open until a decision can be reached.<br />
<br />
Images whose nominations pass will receive featured image status on the front page for two weeks (which may be extended up to one month if there is a shortage of images), and receive a small bronze star ([[File:Featured_star.png|15px]]) on the top right corner. If an image achieves featured status before the present featured image's time expires, it must wait its turn.<br />
<br />
==Current Featured Image==<br />
[[File:ON-quest-The Fires of Dune.jpg|thumb|left|<center>'''[[Online:The Fires of Dune|The Fires of Dune]]'''<br>9 May, 2015 - 23 May, 2015</center>]]<br />
<br />
==={{Newline|Next}}:===<br />
''None in queue.''<br />
<br />
==Nominations and Votes==<br />
=== [[:File:ON-place-Weeping Giant.jpg]] ===<br />
[[File:ON-place-Weeping Giant.jpg|thumb]]<br />
I like big statues, and this one is big. <br />
<br />
* '''Support''': As nominator. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 01:46, 10 May 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': I somehow failed to see the face at first, just thinking 'that's a nice rock'. Once I realized it's a statue, that's... marvelous. [[User:Weroj|Weroj]] ([[User talk:Weroj|talk]]) 22:23, 10 May 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Impressive. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 00:03, 11 May 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Comment''': Is it possible to get it taken in higher res? I like the angle and lighting, and it's an awesome subject, but some parts seem a bit blurry - not sure if that's because of the distance, or not. ~ [[User:Alarra|<span style="color:#00AA00">Alarra</span>]] <sup>([[User_talk:Alarra|talk]])</sup> 03:21, 11 May 2015 (GMT)<br />
**I can certainly try; this was before I realised that having "Depth of Field" on made things in the distance blurry, so I can see what it's like with that turned off. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 07:54, 11 May 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Looks very nice to me, and the blurriness is normal when you have Depth of Field on, so it doesn't bother me. --[[User:Vordur Steel-Hammer|<span style="color:#335599; font-size:115%; font-family:Andalus">Vordur Steel-Hammer </span>]]([[User talk:Vordur Steel-Hammer|<span style="color:#335599; font-size:100%; font-family:DragonscriptRegular">TINV1K</span>]]) 11:44, 11 May 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
=== [[:File:SR-quest-Bolstering the Ranks 06.jpg]] ===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Bolstering the Ranks 06.jpg|thumb]]<br />
This is a really nice action shot. The angle really adds to the image and makes it feel like the dog is going to jump out of the picture and attack you.<br />
<br />
* '''Support''': As nominator. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 04:46, 20 May 2015 (GMT)<br />
* '''Support''': Warning: May cause anxiety and incontinence in victims of doggie attacks. [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:small"><font color="Green">Insignificant Revisions</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 19:12, 20 May 2015 (GMT)<br />
* '''Support''': My favorite dog attack shot. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:13, 20 May 2015 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Images&diff=1419856UESPWiki:Featured Images2015-01-25T05:30:03Z<p>Krusty: /* File:SR-place-Solitude.jpg */ vote</p>
<hr />
<div>{{UESPWiki Trail}}[[Category:Message Boards]]__NEWSECTIONLINK__ __NOTOC__ [[File:Featured_star.png|50px|left]] '''Featured images''' follow the same nomination process as for [[UESPWiki:Featured Articles|Featured Articles]], but as they appear in a different section of the main page, a separate series of [[#Nominations and Votes|votes]] is held to decide which images meet the required standard.<br />
<br />
For an image to be eligible for Featured status, it must be used in a UESP article. This is to prevent specially-taken beauty shots from stealing the limelight. <br />
<br />
A gallery of older Featured Images can be found [[/Old FIs|here]]. Similarly, the archives of previous nominations can be found [[/Past Nominations|here]]. Note that not all failed nominations are included.<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
==Featured Image Process==<br />
===Nomination===<br />
Any registered member can nominate any image at any time. Nominated images should be of high quality and meet the site's [[Help:Images#Image_Standards|image standards]].<br />
<br />
To nominate an image, list it on the bottom of this page with a three-tier heading, <tt>(<code>===Example===</code>)</tt>, and briefly explain why you think the image should be given featured status.<br />
<br />
'''Example:'''<br />
{{Example Table|width=100%|<br />
<big>'''[[:File:SR-quest-Dragon Rising 05.jpg]]'''</big><br />
[[File:SR-quest-Dragon Rising 05.jpg|thumb]]<br />
This is another great image. It appears cinematic, which is rare for the TES series. <br />
*'''Support''' as nominator. [[User:Elliot|elliot]]&nbsp;<small>([[User_talk:Elliot|talk]])</small> 19:13, 5 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
}}<br />
===Voting===<br />
After an image has been nominated, any registered member can vote to '''support''' or '''oppose''' each nomination. Each member can only vote once for a given image, but a member may change his/her vote by striking out the original vote and replacing it with the revised vote.<br />
<br />
To vote on an image, state whether you '''support''' or '''oppose''' the image for featured image status. A vote should be in bold, and all votes must be signed. For example:<br><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Support''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or''<br><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Oppose''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code><br />
<br />
Commenting with your vote is optional, but if you '''oppose''' a nomination, please state how the image must be improved to get your support for featured status.<br />
<br />
If you are not yet ready to vote but would still like to add your thoughts, you may use:<br />
<br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Comment''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or''<BR><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Question''': <Question> --~~~~</nowiki></code><br />
<br />
And fill in your concerns or questions.<br />
<br />
===Decisions===<br />
UESP [[UESPWiki:Administrators|Administrators]] will periodically make decisions on image nominations. Decisions will only be made if:<br />
* The image has been nominated for more than seven days.<br />
* Five or more votes have been placed.<br />
<br />
Nominations not meeting these criteria will be left open until a decision can be reached.<br />
<br />
Images whose nominations pass will receive featured image status on the front page for two weeks (which may be extended up to one month if there is a shortage of images), and receive a small bronze star ([[File:Featured_star.png|15px]]) on the top right corner. If an image achieves featured status before the present featured image's time expires, it must wait its turn.<br />
<br />
==Current Featured Image==<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Dawnguard (quest).jpg|File:SR-quest-Dawnguard (quest).jpg|thumb|left|<center>'''[[Skyrim:Dawnguard (quest)|Dawnguard]]'''<br> 20 January, 2015 - 3 February, 2015</center>]]<br />
==={{Newline|Next}}:===<br />
*[[:File:ON-quest-Goblin Marq 02.jpg|Goblin Marq]] (ON)<br />
*[[:File:ON-quest-Long Lost Lore 02.jpg|Long Lost Lore]] (ON)<br />
*[[:File:ON-place-Upper Craglorn.jpg|Upper Craglorn]] (ON)<br />
*[[:File:OB-quest-Go Fish.jpg|Go Fish]] (OB)<br />
<br />
==Nominations and Votes==<br />
<br />
===[[:File:SR-place-Solitude.jpg]]===<br />
[[File:SR-place-Solitude.jpg|thumb]]<br />
When I was browsing looking for an image I could nominate, I thought maybe Solitude would have the perfect image. So I went on the article, clicked on the image with a birds-eye-view of the city, and that's when I thought ''"OMG! This is SO realistic! This MUST be featured I tell you!"'' In my honest opinion, I would love to see this image reach featured status as a lot of hard work was done to get the shot just right. Such exemplar details that add a lot of realism include, but are not limited to—the chimney smoke, the buildings, mountain detail, the sun setting in the background, its reflection on the surface of the ocean, and last but NOT least—the birds flying around in the sky. I would really appreciate all your support people! Thanks!<br />
<br />
*'''Support''': As nominator. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Dragon Guard</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:Dragon Guard|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:55, 16 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Support''': While there is a little bush thing at the very bottom and a couple of the birds are slightly messed up, I believe those are game issues. Plus they are really hard to notice and minor. Pyslocke needs to come back to give us more images (I think all of her nominated images were featured) ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 04:48, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Psylocke knows her sh... uh... stuff! She's definitely one of the best photographers I've seen, and I'd lie if I said I didn't have a few of her pics on rotation as desktop images. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 04:53, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': I was worried that there might be some mods involved with this image, but I can't find any evidence of such. Plus Psylocke always takes the best images. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 07:17, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
* '''Support''': A stunning view. It is one of these pictures you start wonder why no-one has nominated for Featured Image before. The only thing to comment on is that all high altitude pictures in Skyrim renders the sea horizon a tiny bit too high for a spherical world, but that is a general game issue, not specific for this picture. —[[User:MortenOSlash|MortenOSlash]] ([[User talk:MortenOSlash|talk]]) 08:13, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
* '''Support''': Great shot! -- [[User:SarthesArai|<font style="color:#440000">S</font><font style="color:#222222">arthes</font><font style="color:#440000">A</font><font style="color:#222222">rai</font>]] [[User Talk:SarthesArai|<sup style="color:#444444">Talk</sup>]] 10:11, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
* '''Support''': That lighting, that colors... and you can even see a tiny College of Winterhold on the horizon! As someone who loves colorful landscape screenshots, I can support this without question. --[[User:Vordur Steel-Hammer|<span style="color:#335599; font-size:115%; font-family:Andalus">Vordur Steel-Hammer </span>]]([[User talk:Vordur Steel-Hammer|<span style="color:#335599; font-size:100%; font-family:DragonscriptRegular">TINV1K</span>]]) 13:39, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
**Don't mean to burst your bubble there Vordur, but there's no way that's the College of Winterhold :p I think it might be some part of High Gate Ruins? Anyways, I'm glad someone else around here is a sucker for landscape shots! [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 17:25, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
*** It's definitely not High Gate, since you can see the Wreck Of The Brinehammer in the image as well. I believe it is the College. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:28, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': That's definitely the College. But I do echo Woahbro's concerns about modding; I'm not sure you ''should'' be able to see the College from this point in Solitude. Might be a mod to achieve that effect? [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:small"><font color="Green">Insignificant Revisions</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 17:32, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
**Of course you can and should be able to see the College from here, I remember seeing it from these parts as well. The draw distance is really big in Skyrim. Remember that it is possible to see the White-Gold Tower and the Red Mountain from some places. I can try to confirm that if you want. --[[User:Vordur Steel-Hammer|<span style="color:#335599; font-size:115%; font-family:Andalus">Vordur Steel-Hammer </span>]]([[User talk:Vordur Steel-Hammer|<span style="color:#335599; font-size:100%; font-family:DragonscriptRegular">TINV1K</span>]]) 17:52, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
***No need to. I thought too that there was no way this was the college. I checked in game, and it's true, 'tis the college. Skyrim is smaller than I thought ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 18:03, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
**** I believe it's because the College has a 'distant LOD' model, rather than anything to do with distance. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 18:14, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Great image. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 18:17, 17 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Well-lit, excellent angle, shows off most of the city in a beautiful light from the time of day, and for some reason the hawks in the sky really put the bow on the image. Great shot. --[[User:GodRaine|GodRaine]]<sup>[[User talk:GodRaine|Talk]]</sup> 19:47, 24 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Very nice image of Solitude, with the College of Winterhold in the background. I like the bird too. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 05:30, 25 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
===[[:File:SR-quest-Touching the Sky.jpg]]===<br />
<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Touching the Sky.jpg|thumb]]<br />
An awesome image. <br />
<br />
*'''Support''': as nominator. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Dragon Guard</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:Dragon Guard|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:54, 24 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': This image was [[UESPWiki:Featured_Images/Past_Nominations/Archive_2#File:SR-quest-Touching_the_Sky.jpg|already nominated]] and no consensus was reached. I think we should defer to the previous judgement. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:59, 24 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
**'''Comment''': I'll make this short. That was a long time ago. People have moved in and out of the wiki. New people have come, new people have left etc. This time it might ''just'' pass at being supported. I'm asking you — please can you give it a chance to be nominated again and not close this nomination early? <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Dragon Guard</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:Dragon Guard|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:38, 24 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': I love the image, but as many posters complained about the last time, it's just too blurry to be featured, in my opinion. If a similar but sharper shot were to replace it, my vote might change. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:40, 24 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose:''': While the image is brilliant, the overexposure on the subject and the lower image quality make it a no from me. It could easily be re-done to get a sharper version, probably using the console to remove some of the atmospheric effects that the explosion has. --[[User:GodRaine|GodRaine]]<sup>[[User talk:GodRaine|Talk]]</sup> 19:45, 24 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': I voted barely neutral, mostly oppose last time, so this time I'll just outright oppose it. I don't see the point in re-opening a nomination that has already been had when it's the exact same image as before. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 20:00, 24 January 2015 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': Pacta sunt servanda. [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:small"><font color="Green">Insignificant Revisions</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 20:24, 24 January 2015 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Featured_Articles&diff=1402081UESPWiki:Featured Articles2014-11-07T21:11:53Z<p>Krusty: /* Oblivion:A Knife in the Dark */ vote</p>
<hr />
<div>{{UESPWiki Trail}}[[Category:Message Boards]]__NEWSECTIONLINK__ __NOTOC__ {{protection|move=full}}<br />
[[File:Featured_star.png|50px|left]] '''Featured articles''' are articles the site's editors deem to be of the highest quality and should be held up as an example for other articles. Articles are nominated for this status below. The site's editors then review the nominees for content, style, completeness, and overall quality and place their vote. High quality images can be nominated for featured status at [[UESPWiki:Featured Images|Featured Images]].<br />
<br />
Archives of previous nominations can be found [[/Past Nominations|here]].<br />
<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
==Featured Article Process==<br />
===Nomination===<br />
Any registered member can nominate any article at any time. Nominated articles should be of high quality and meet the site's [[UESPWiki:Style Guide|style guidelines]]. They will frequently be recently completed articles or articles that have just undergone a substantial rewrite, but older articles are also suitable candidates.<br />
<br />
To nominate an article, list it on the bottom of this page with a three-tier heading, <tt>(<code>===Example===</code>)</tt>, and briefly explain why you think the article should be given featured status.<br />
<br />
===Voting===<br />
After an article has been nominated, any registered member can vote to '''support''' or '''oppose''' each nomination. Each member can only vote once for a given article, but a member may change his/her vote by striking out the original vote and replacing it with the revised vote.<br />
<br />
To vote on an article, state whether you '''support''' or '''oppose''' the article for featured article status. A vote should be in bold, and all votes must be signed. For example:<br><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Support''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or''<br><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Oppose''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code><br />
<br />
Commenting with your vote is optional, but if you '''oppose''' a nomination, please state how the article must be improved to get your support for featured status.<br />
<br />
If you are not yet ready to vote but would still like to add your thoughts, you may use:<br />
<br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Comment''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or''<BR><br />
<code><nowiki>* '''Question''': <Question> --~~~~</nowiki></code><br />
<br />
And fill in your concerns or questions.<br />
<br />
===Decisions===<br />
UESP [[UESPWiki:Administrators|Administrators]] will periodically make decisions on article nominations. Decisions will only be made if:<br />
* The article has been nominated for more than seven days.<br />
* Five or more votes have been placed.<br />
* A clear consensus has been reached (either '''supported''' or '''opposed''' for featured status).<br />
<br />
Nominations not meeting these criteria will be left open until a decision can be reached.<br />
<br />
Articles whose nominations pass will receive featured article status on the front page for at least one month and receive a small bronze star ([[File:Featured_star.png|15px]]) on the top right corner. If an article achieves featured status before the present featured article's month expires, it must wait its turn.<br />
<br />
==Current Featured Article==<br />
*[[Skyrim:Frostflow Abyss (quest)]] 27 September, 2014 - 27 October, 2014<br />
<br />
===Next===<br />
''None in queue.''<br />
<br />
==Previous Featured Articles==<br />
{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"<br />
! Article !! Dates Featured<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Arniel Gane]] || 27 August, 2014 - 27 September, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Tiber Wars]] || 27 July, 2014 - 27 August, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Thonar Silver-Blood]] || 24 June, 2014 - 27 July, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Potema]] || 28 May, 2014 - 24 June, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Isran]] || 24 April, 2014 - 28 May, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Lost to the Ages]] || 22 March, 2014 - 24 April, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Nerevar]] || 22 February, 2014 - 22 March, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Chillrend]] || 22 January, 2014 - 22 February, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Dragonborn:Neloth]] || 22 December, 2013 - 22 January, 2014<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Scourge]] || 20 November, 2013 - 22 December, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)]] || 20 October, 2013 - 20 November, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Glarthir]] || 19 September, 2013 - 20 October, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Dragonborn:Lost Legacy]] || 19 August, 2013 - 19 September, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Ulfric Stormcloak]] || 18 July, 2013 - 19 August, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Darkness Returns]] || 18 June, 2013 - 18 July, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Dragonborn:The Final Descent]] || 18 April, 2013 - 18 June, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Irkngthand]] || 16 March, 2013 - 18 April, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Shivering:Jyggalag]] || 11 February, 2013 - 16 March, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Easter Eggs]] || 9 January, 2013 - 11 February, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Dragon]] || 29 November, 2012 - 9 January, 2013<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Delphine]] || 29 October, 2012 - 29 November, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Thalmor]] || 28 September, 2012 - 29 October, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Legate Rikke]] || 27 August, 2012 - 28 September, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Cicero]] || 24 July, 2012 - 27 August, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Forsworn]] || 3 May, 2012 - 24 July, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:Forbidden Legend]] || 30 April 2012 - 3 May 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Khajiit]] || 30 March, 2012 - 30 April, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:The Black Star]] || 21 February, 2012 - 30 March, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Skyrim:The Only Cure]] || 10 December, 2011 - 21 February, 2012<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Vivec (god)]] || 20 November, 2011 - 10 December, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:The Path of Dawn]] || 16 October, 2011 - 20 November, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Shivering:Syl]] || 30 July, 2011 - 16 October, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Daggerfall:Journey to Aetherius]] || 30 June, 2011 - 30 July, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Morrowind:Vivec (city)|Morrowind:Vivec]] || 30 May, 2011 - 30 June, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Books:The Infernal City]] || 28 April, 2011 - 30 May, 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Shivering:Golden Saint]] || January 2011 - April 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Shadowkey:Glacier Crawl]] || November 2010 - January 2011<br />
|-<br />
|[[Morrowind:Seyda Neen]] || October 2010 - November 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Septim Dynasty|Lore:Septim Dynasty]] || July 2010 - October 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Janus Hassildor|Oblivion:Janus Hassildor]] || May 2010 - July 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Arcane University]] || February 2010 - May 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Black Marsh]] || December 2009 - February 2010<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Rosethorn Hall]] || October 2009 - December 2009<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Adanrel]] || May 2009 - October 2009<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Creatures]] || January 2009 - May 2009<br />
|-<br />
|[[General:Playing DOS Installments under DOSBox]] || November 2008 - January 2009<br />
|-<br />
|[[Morrowind:Armor Artifacts]] || September 2008 - November 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Houses]] || July 2008 - September 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Artifacts]] || June 2008 - July 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Traps]] || May 2008 - June 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Oblivion:Classes]] || October 2007 - May 2008<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Daedric Alphabet]] || November 2006 - October 2007<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Khajiit]] || August 2006 - November 2006 <small>(revoked August 2011)</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Nominations and Votes==<br />
<br />
=== [[Oblivion:A Knife in the Dark]] ===<br />
<br />
Compared to many of the other quest pages in the Oblivion namespace, this page is significantly higher in quality and resembles some of the Skyrim quest pages that have been featured. It provides a detailed walkthrough of the quest, complete with dialogue and plenty of images. There may be a tad too much dialogue present in the article for a quest page, but I don't think it really hurts the article in any way, since the quest is very simplistic and the instructions of what to do to complete the quest don't really require much focus. Instead, this dialogue allows the interesting plot of the quest to be focused on, ultimately making the page more interesting. <br />
<br />
'''Support:''' As nominator. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 18:10, 7 November 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Helena Anne did some great work on the DB pages. It was only a matter of time before one of them came up for nomination. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 20:18, 7 November 2014 (GMT)<br />
* '''Support''': Whoah, never saw this page before. Excellent stuff. ☺--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:11, 7 November 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
=== [[Skyrim:Sinding]] === <br />
<br />
A full NPC page on the main character of a fairly memorable quest. While it may not be as lengthy or complex as other NPC pages, I think this page provides a good example of what NPC pages for characters only involved in one quest or something similar should look like. The dialogue, rumors, and quest details involving Sinding are all presented in a logical order that create a very interesting article on this character. <br />
<br />
'''Support:''' As nominator. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 18:10, 7 November 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Oppose''': I am not a fan of how the body is one large section. It makes it hard to follow the content of the page. I'm sure it could easily be split at least once or twice for quest specific interactions, same as other similar articles. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 20:18, 7 November 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Krusty&diff=1401127User talk:Krusty2014-11-02T07:05:49Z<p>Krusty: /* Plea for Help */ reply</p>
<hr />
<div>{{TOCright}}<br />
'''Archives''':<br />
{| class=hiddentable width="60%"<br />
|-<br />
|style="width:15%"|[[User talk:Krusty/Arc_2009|2009 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010a|2010 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011a|2011 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2012a|2012 pt 1]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2013a|2013 pt 1]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010b|2010 pt 2]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011b|2011 pt 2]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2012b|2012 pt 2]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010c|2010 pt 3]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011c|2011 pt 3]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010d|2010 pt 4]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011d|2011 pt 4]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||-||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011e|2011 pt 5]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Thanks! ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the speedy deletes on the files that I uploaded that were sitting there waiting to be deleted. Made a few mistakes <_< Glad to see that's been cleaned up. :) [[User:GodRaine|GodRaine]]<sup>[[User talk:GodRaine|Talk]]</sup> 17:52, 30 July 2013 (GMT)<br />
: No problem! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:05, 30 July 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Info On Morrowind Boat Guards On Prison Ship ==<br />
<br />
Since a page on one of the guards got deleted last time I created the page, should the info on the boat guards go on [[MW:Guard|this page]]? It is just that for Morrowind, some players (such as myself) might want to know the armor and things about these characters. <big>''[[User:Dragon Guard|<font color="000080">'''Guard of Dragons'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Dragon Guard|<font color="FF0000">'''Speak To Me'''</font>]]</sup>''</big> 13:08, 7 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
:Because the page got deleted that time, I will be working on it in my [[User:Dragon Guard/Sandbox|Sandbox]], just for now. <big>''[[User:Dragon Guard|<font color="000080">'''Guard of Dragons'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Dragon Guard|<font color="FF0000">'''Speak To Me'''</font>]]</sup>''</big> 15:34, 7 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Kjeld / Kjeld the Younger dialogue ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty, while I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to take [[:File:SR-npc-Kjeld_the_Younger_02.jpg|this shot]] for your image requests, I’ve discovered that the lines in [http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00023e77 DialogueKynesgroveKjeldYoungerKjeld1] are mixed up – Kjeld initiates the conversation by saying ''"Papa, mama's making me do kitchen work again."'' to his son, and so forth. Maybe you want to add a note about this to KtY’s NPC article? --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 13:08, 9 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Bon Appétit! ==<br />
<br />
{{Prize<br />
|width=300px<br />
|image=SR-interior-The Frozen Hearth 03.jpg<br />
|imagesz=250px<br />
|title=You have been given an entrée!<br />
|intromessage=Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a delectable array of food because of it (complete with bread, pie, cheese, sweetrolls, apples, and a wine selection!). Good work! The user had the following to say:<br />
}}<br />
Heeeey, Krusty! Nice job with Skjor's page (and ''a lot'' of other pages)! You've been conscientiously and continuously working on so many NPC and quest articles lately. I'm sure the other regular editors also see the huge amount of effort you've been putting in :D. I actually wanted to give you a plateful of cookies but realised it's just not enough :P. So, I came up with my own custom-made prize hee :3. Enjoy the meal! Oh, by the way Krusty, what's that behind you? <small>*Runs off with a slice of cheese and looks for ABCface*</small> ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 16:39, 4 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:Psylocke's right, a plateful of cookies is ''not'' enough. Krusty, you write fantastic pages and have been doing so for a long time. I didn't realize it when I first started using this wiki years ago (as a reader, not an editor), but you had a lot to do with why I got sucked into UESP in the first place- your attention to detail and your goal of full documentation while always seeing the "story" in everything is awesome. So many of the pages you've written are ''exactly'' what I think we should strive for around here. Keep doing what you're doing, bossman. :) — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 02:28, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
::Here, here! --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]]</small></sup> 03:43, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::''Thump…'' Putting another bottle of wine on the table. :) --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 08:46, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::: Thank you so much for the kind words, everybody! Very much appreciated! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:45, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== [[:File:SR-npc-Corpulus Vinius.jpg]] ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Krusty. I ''did'' replace it; I didn't colour-correct the previous image as it is beyond repair. You can clearly see it's a new image from the positioning of the skeever head and the hanging ingredients, and also from the drastic jump in quality indicated by the file size. I used only the natural lighting of the inn (from the candles and chandeliers) per your request, and did not use any [[Skyrim:Light|Light]] spell like in the previous image. Can you please specify what other changes you want? Do you want a full body image? ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 06:27, 26 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Whoah, sorry about that - for whatever reason it didn't update in my sandbox. Sloppiness on my part! I'll get rid of the request now. :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 06:36, 26 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Your Sandbox on Jaree-Ra ==<br />
<br />
During the battle with him, he may say things such as: ''"First you murder my sister, then you massacre my men!"'', ''"You've betrayed me, murdered my sister and massacred my men!"'', ''"To Oblivion with your loot! This ends now!"'' or ''"You don't have what it takes to kill me."''<br />
I am just helping on additions to the sandbox, that's all. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:21, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:I have found something else that is interesting, some unused dialogue or something. [[http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x0007eacc THIS]] '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:27, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
::Yeah, I've looked into it, and it seems like Captain Aldis was assigned to the quest at some point, making a few oddities in the game files. If none of them concerns Jaree-Ra, it's not for his article, but it should be mentioned somewhere (at some point). As for the battle-dialogue, I still have to double-check that when I get back to my PS3. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:38, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::I found something else. [[http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00088ca6 THIS]]. It looks like he had unused dialogue and / or if the player calmed him, he would say some unique lines. This will be a good mystery to solve. Solving unused dialogue. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:46, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::: Finding and documneting unused dialogue is what we do - however, I can do little with the Sandbox right now, but will look into all of that over the weekend. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:52, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::::Yes, I'm sure we will solve the dialogue mystery over the weekend. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:59, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::::: {{ec}} It looks like in the first of DG's links, both lines are conditional on stage 105, which doesn't exist. In the second of DG's links, the first line should be possible at stage 225, which does exist, but I don't see any way of getting to it. If you do, I think you'd get an error when it tries to advance to the non-existent stage 160 (which is part of the scripting I don't think you can see in the CSList). The second line is supposed to be conditional on stage 1500, which also doesn't exist. That one also wants to advance the quest to stage 160. My guess is that there were some substantial rewrites to this quest at some point and they forgot to remove the leftover. Good spots, DG!<br />
<br />
:::::: Oh, and if there's anything you need me to check on in game, completely coincidentally, I'm right in the middle of this quest in my current game. I've put out the lighthouse, but haven't yet gone to the Icerunner, so that's probably the perfect spot if anything needs testing. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 23:34, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
{{od}} Ah, nice work! ☺ If you are in the middle of the quest, maybe see if you can trigger some unique combat lines during your encounter with him in the grotto. I don’t think they’ll trigger, but better safe than sorry. Thanks in advance! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:38, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:I told you that it would be a good mystery to solve. RobinHood has discovered more mysteries - non-existing quest stages. Good work on finding another mystery! :) '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 07:49, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::If I'd been thinking, I would've just looked up those lines earlier. If I had, I would've saved myself some in game testing, but oh well, at least that quest is done now. :) Anyway, all the combat lines in DG's first post are linked to the missing stages, so they'll never actually be said in game. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 08:05, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::So, Captain Aldis played a part in the quest with unused dialogue that wasn't included in the game. We could note that on his page.<br />
<br />
:::And we'll note Jaree-Ra's unused dialogue on his page somewhere.<br />
<br />
:::RobinHood, can I ask you something else while you're here? On [[Dragonborn:Miraak (person)#Notes|Miraak notes]], it lists some potentially unused dialogue that I added some while ago. Can you quickly check out that dialogue in the CK and find out whether it's unused or linked to a missing quest stage. Thanks in advance!<br />
<br />
:::I ''really'' am curious to know if Jaree-Ra says anything unique if you can calm him in the grotto. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 10:08, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::I'm just on my way to bed, but I'll look into these tomorrow. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 10:16, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Well, now I'm confused. Somehow, on entering Broken Oar Grotto, stage 225 ''is'' getting set, though I can't figure out how. Anyway, that means that the dialogue lines "You've betrayed me, murdered my sister and massacred my men!" and "To Oblivion with your loot! This ends now!" are indeed available when Jaree-Ra is calmed. I think Krusty's looking into Captain Aldis, so I'll let him respond to that, and I'll respond to Miraak <s>on that page</s> once I've had a look into it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:05, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::Good luck with that. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:14, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
{{od}}We also have to be sure that the unused dialogue and quest stages are right, so we should slowly and accurately see to them, one at a time. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:18, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Sorry, didn't notice that the Dragonborn thing wasn't a talk page post, so I'm going back to responding here. :) I don't see anything obvious that rules out that dialogue being said. Unfortunately, I'm nowhere near anything Dragonborn-related in my current game, so I can't readily test it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 22:21, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Re: Your Recent Undo to My Chatroom-Like Reply ==<br />
<br />
Did you feel like it was unnecessary for me to ask if RH had any luck yet? '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 20:37, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Yes. This wiki is a collaborative effort, and we never rush each other. Now please, no more posts on my talk, unless it's important. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:20, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
::I understand now. I will refrain from doing this in any future talk page posts. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:28, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Image Request ==<br />
<br />
Hi there, Krusty. I thought I'd bring {{Pl|UESPWiki:Image Requests|diff=1255827&oldid=1255691|this}} to your attention, as you probably have missed it. For that related request, I have already uploaded interior images for it before you even created and placed your request on the image requests page. I'm not sure if you did not notice those images when you checked the article, hence adding that article to the request list, or if you want other images/better images for that article. ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 13:47, 27 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Yep, my mistake - I was going to request another round of images, but I have very little wiki-time these days, so I'll do it later. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:03, 27 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Chat Ban ==<br />
I would like to know why I was banned from the chat, I was not doing anything, it was the other person that was in the chatroom. please tell me what I did wrong if I did do something[[Special:Contributions/82.16.197.204|82.16.197.204]] 23:58, 9 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
: No problem, I just had to shut down the webchat temporarily. It will be back up and running soon. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 00:01, 10 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
:: Okay thank you [[Special:Contributions/82.16.197.204|82.16.197.204]] 00:04, 10 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Removal of A note about Ysolda's somewhat unique animation. ==<br />
<br />
You seem to have "removed false note about carrying a basket; image too" in [[Skyrim:Ysolda]], but this is not a 'false note', really. Ysolda MAY have basket and flowers in her inventory randomly and if she does, she MAY carry them as shown on the image. Granted, it is not what she ALWAYS does, but she certainly does that. There is another animation of this kind-with NPC carrying a bucket, it can be seen in the beginning of the game. So, uh, maybe you will consider undoing your deletion? [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 17:44, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
: To support my claim of being truthful, I hereby present a link to some youtube video. At 0:08 one could see her doing that! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggFVKlGopo [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 17:58, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:: Like many other NPCs, Ysolda has a <code> WhiterunYsoldaCarryBasketPatrol16x4</code> package, meaning she will carry around her basket between 4pm and 8pm. It’s not rare enough to warrant a special note – for examples, visit [[Skyrim:Nilsine Shatter-Shield|Nilsine Shatter-Shield]] between noon and 6pm, or [[Skyrim:Sosia_Tremellia|Sosia Tremellia]] between 7am and 6pm. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:04, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::: Oh, I never saw any other NPC with a flower basket... before... Now I see that I was wrong... =] [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 18:49, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::: No problem! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:52, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Happy Anniversary! ==<br />
<br />
Congrats on passing the 5-year mark. Not a lot of us make it this far! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 07:30, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
:Woohoo Krusty! Seems like the perfect opportunity to thank you for all the support you've given me as I have grown as an editor. <span style="background:#000"> [[User:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">--Nocte&#124;</span>]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Chat&#124;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Look</span>]]</span> 07:37, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Happy Wiki-versary, Krusty! :) [[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 09:44, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: Thanks - time flies when you're having fun! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:00, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: Congratulations! I dub thee "wiki dinosaur", or "wikisaur" for short. • <span style="font-family:DragonscriptRegular;">[[User:Jak Atackka|<span title="Jak Atackka" style="line-height:1.0; font-size:16px; color: #C10;">JA</span>]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|<sup><span title="Talk" style="color:black;">T</span></sup>]]</span> 00:15, 13 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== General:Dawnstar ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty! The Silencer put [[General:Dawnstar]] up for speedy deletion, but I notice in the delete logs that you deleted it back in August 2010 and Rpeh restored it just under a week later citing "Historical necessity". I know it's been almost four years, but do you have any idea what that was about? My best guess would be that it's search-related, but now that we've got a better search, I suspect we don't need it anymore. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 08:30, 8 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
: Hmm, I can’t remember a thing about why it should be kept, so whatever historical necessity it may have seems to have expired. I’d say delete it. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 10:01, 8 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Wikibreak ==<br />
<br />
Krusty!!! Hope your real-life problems get sorted out soon! You will be missed during your absence for sure. Please feel free to let me know if there is aught you need! <span style="background:#000"> [[User:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">--Nocte&#124;</span>]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Chat&#124;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Look</span>]]</span> 08:42, 11 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Input Needed ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty. Can you have a look at [[UESPWiki_talk:Skyrim_Quest_Redesign_Project#finished_pages|this discussion]] and provide feedback. Thanks! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:44, 21 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks RH! Krusty - Was wanting to standardize the headers in the Skyrim Houses pages, as they are pretty much all over the place. I posted this on the [[UESPWiki talk:Skyrim Houses Redesign Project#Header uniformity?|project discussion]] but was advised to double-check with you and Silencer (cc'd on this). I was hoping to start cleaning up some of the Houses, but wanted your input on headers before I do. I was proposing:<br />
==Header 1, no italics, for main space, i.e., The White Phial, Bob's House==<br />
===Header 2, no italics, for any zones===<br />
Let me know your thoughts. --[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 22:33, 4 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Hey Beezer, thanks for the message. I'm on my way to work right now, but agree that the layout is all over the place right now. I'll take a look this evening and post my thoughts here. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 06:21, 5 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Plea for Help ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty, long time no... speak? Just noticed your small [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox2&diff=prev&oldid=1398382 plea for help]whilst moseying around the wiki and have a bit of down time from work coming up, if you can give me some idea of where you want to go with it i'll try my best to help in some fashion. I'm on IRC at the moment, but emails/talk pages will reach me quickly :) -- [[User:Kiz|<span style="color:#388AAD; font-family:Heather BTN; font-size:170%">'''Kiz''']]<sup style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:80%">[[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]]</sup>19:41, 27 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
:Ditto. I'm around as well...Can I help with something?--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 15:05, 28 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Oh, sorry, both of you. I didn’t see your messages. Beezer, you should have received an e-mail, and Kiz – my big problem with the article is: It’s not very exciting. Maven is generally quite boring, so it could use some kind of extra “punch”. I’ve requested more images, but I also need some help with layout. Problem is, I’m not sure what to do with the various “chapters”. Then only thing I’m please with, is the “Related Quests” section, and the way the TOC looks. So, if you have any ideas, please create a sandbox and give it your best shot. Best, --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 07:05, 2 November 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1398913User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-10-21T21:10:00Z<p>Krusty: wip</p>
<hr />
<div>{{NPC Summary<br />
|essential=<br />
|race=Breton<br />
|gender=Female<br />
|class=Apothecary<br />
|faction={{Faction|Angeline's Aromatics Services}}; {{Faction|CrimeFactionHaafingar}}; {{Faction|SolitudeAngelinesAromaticsFaction}}; {{Faction|TownSolitudeFaction}}<br />
|refid=000198D2<br />
|baseid=00013260<br />
|image=SR-npc-Angeline Morrard.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Angeline Morrard<br />
|buys=Apothecary ([[Skyrim:Animal Parts|Animal Parts]], [[Skyrim:Food|Food]], [[Skyrim:Ingredients|Ingredients]], [[Skyrim:Poisons|Poisons]], [[Skyrim:Potions|Potions]], [[Skyrim:Raw Food|Raw Food]], [[Skyrim:Recipes|Recipes]])<br />
|city=[[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]]<br />
|gold=500 (+500 [[Skyrim:Investor|Investor]]; +1000 [[Skyrim:Master Trader|Master Trader]])<br />
|sells=See [[Skyrim:Angeline's Aromatics#Standard Merchandise|Angeline's Aromatics]]<br />
|mercnote=<sup>{{hover|If Angeline dies, Vivienne takes over running the store|‡}}</sup><br />
|store=[[Skyrim:Angeline's Aromatics|Angeline's Aromatics]]<br />
|class_details=[[Skyrim:VendorApothecary|VendorApothecary]]<br />
|skills='''[[Skyrim:Alchemy|Alchemy]]''', '''[[Skyrim:Speech|Speech]]'''<br />
|aggress=Unaggressive<br />
|level=6<br />
|moral=No Crime<br />
|health=91<br />
|magicka=67<br />
|stamina=67<br />
|voicetype=FemaleOldKindly<br />
}} __NOTOC__<br />
'''Angeline Morrard''', a [[Skyrim:Breton|Breton]] [[Skyrim:VendorApothecary|apothecary]], is the proprietor of [[Skyrim:Angeline's Aromatics|Angeline's Aromatics]] in [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]]. Her niece, [[Skyrim:Vivienne Onis|Vivienne Onis]] is her assistant, and takes over ownership of the store if her aunt dies. Angeline will [[Skyrim:No News is Good News|task you]] with finding out what happened to her beloved daughter Fura, who recently joined the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]] and disappeared while stationed in [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]. <br />
<br />
She never leaves Angeline’s Aromatics and sleeps in her private quarters in the upstairs area every night between midnight and 8am. She then opens the shop for customers and spends the next twelve hours behind the desk in the main trading room. At 8pm she closes up shop and spends the rest of the evening eating, relaxing, or using her [[Skyrim:Alchemy Lab|Alchemy Lab]]. <br />
<br />
Angeline wears a set of merchant [[Skyrim:Clothes#0004223c|clothes]], a pair of [[Skyrim:Boots#0004223d|boots]], and a [[Skyrim:Hat#0004223b|hat]]. She carries a [[Skyrim:Key to Angeline's Aromatics|key]] to her store, and a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled Lists#Common|common loot and gold]].<br />
<br />
When you enter her shop for the first time, she will run up to you, eager to ask: ''"You're a traveller, correct? Have you been to Whiterun?"'' If you say ‘no’, she will respond: ''"Ah well, it was a long shot."'' and offer you her selection of wares. She will then say: ''"It's good to see a fresh face. You wouldn't have happen to come from Whiterun would you?"'' the next time you greet her. If you tell her you have visited Whiterun, she will say: ''"Wonderful. I hadn't really hoped to run in to someone who had been there. My daughter, Fura, was assigned to Whiterun after she joined the Imperial Army. I was hoping you might have met her. I haven't heard from her lately. I've tried talking to Captain Aldis but he hasn't been any help."'' If you tell her, you never met Fura, she will respond: ''"Ah, well I guess it was unlikely. I'm sorry to waste your time."'' If you instead offer to speak to [[Skyrim:Captain Aldis|Captain Aldis]], she will be very grateful: ''"Oh that's very sweet of you. Anything you can find out from Captain Aldis would be welcome news."''<br />
<br />
If you ask Angeline for [[Skyrim:Alchemy|Alchemy]] [[Skyrim:Trainers|training]], she declines, saying she's just a simple herbalist, and refers you to [[Skyrim:Lami|Lami]] in [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]].<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
== Related Quests ==<br />
* {{Quest Link|No News is Good News}}<br />
<br />
== Dialogue ==<br />
Angeline may have some short conversations with her niece Vivienne in her store:<br />
<br />
'''Angeline''': ''"Vivienne, could you check out supplies of mandrake root?"''<br><br />
'''Vivienne''': ''"Which one is that again?"''<br><br />
'''Angeline''': ''"It's the root that looks like an ugly little man."''<br><br />
'''Vivienne''': ''"In that case, I'm pretty sure it tried to buy me a drink last night."''<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
* Angeline refers to herself as "Angela" in her voice files, and she is referred to by that name during the quest [[Skyrim:No_News_is_Good_News|No News is Good News]] as well.<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
{{Bug|When investing gold in Angeline's store, the chat option does not disappear. Therefore it is possible to invest repeatedly in her shop. However, because of the way the script works, she does not retain this gold. Consequently it is impossible for her base gold to be raised by the investing perk.|USKP|1.1}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox2&diff=1398382User:Krusty/Sandbox22014-10-19T22:36:54Z<p>Krusty: null edit; still working on this; if anyone wants to help out with this nightmare, please talk to me</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Notice|Users allowed to edit this Sandbox: [[User:Alphabetface|Alphabetface]]}}<br />
{{NPC Summary<br />
|essential=yes<br />
|house=[[Skyrim:Black-Briar Manor|Black-Briar Manor]]<br />
|city=[[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]<br />
|race=Nord<br />
|gender=Female<br />
|class=Nightblade<br />
|faction={{Faction|CR04ExclusionFaction}}; {{Faction|CrimeFactionRift}}; {{Faction|FavorExcludedFaction}}; {{Faction|Imperial Government}}; {{Faction|MQ201PartyGuestHappy}}; {{Faction|NPCs the Player cannot marry}}; {{Faction|Riften Black Briar House Faction}}; {{Faction|Thieves Guild No Pickpocketing Faction}}; {{Faction|TownRiftenFaction}}; {{Faction|faction for party guests}}<br />
|refid=00019DD1<br />
|baseid=0001336A<br />
|image=SR-npc-Maven Black-Briar.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Maven Black-Briar<br />
|skills='''[[Skyrim:Destruction|Destruction]]''', '''[[Skyrim:Sneak|Sneak]]''', [[Skyrim:Alteration|Alteration]], [[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]]<br />
|aggress=Unaggressive<br />
|level=PC&times;1 (range&#061;10-35)<br />
|moral=No Crime<br />
|health=50+(PC-1)&times;8.3<br />
|magicka=50+(PC-1)&times;3.3<br />
|stamina=50+(PC-1)&times;3.3<br />
|voicetype=Unique<br />
}}[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"The throne suits me, don't you think?"'']]<br />
'''Maven Black-Briar''' is the matriarch of the Black-Briar family, and unofficially controls most of [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]. She is the mother of [[Skyrim:Hemming Black-Briar|Hemming Black-Briar]], and grandmother of [[Skyrim:Ingun Black-Briar|Ingun]] and [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi]]. [[Skyrim:Maul|Maul]] is her right-hand man and enforces her will in the city. She has strong ties with both the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]] and the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]], as well as being a personal friend of Jarl [[Skyrim:Laila_Law-Giver|Laila Law-Giver]], despite their political differences. She has her hands in every shady business in Riften, is involved in multiple quests, and is so influential that she will take over as [[Skyrim:Jarl|Jarl]] if the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]] conquer [[Skyrim:The_Rift|the Rift]].<br />
<br />
Maven wears [[Skyrim:Fine_Clothes#000cee80|fine clothes]] with [[Skyrim:Fine_Boots#000cee82|fine boots]] along with a leveled necklace and ring. She carries a [[Skyrim:Belted_Tunic|belted tunic]], her [[Skyrim:Maven's_Personal_Key|personal key]], the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar_Manor_Key|Black-Briar Manor key]], a leveled [[Skyrim:Dagger|dagger]] of the best possible quality, a [[Skyrim:Potions|potion]], and a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled_Lists#Rich|upper-class items and gold]]. She knows the spells [[Skyrim:Lightning Bolt|Lightning Bolt]], [[Skyrim:Sparks|Sparks]], and [[Skyrim:Steadfast Ward|Steadfast Ward]].<br />
<br />
Maven lives in [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Manor|Black-Briar Manor]], right next to [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep|Mistveil Keep]], and she sleeps there every night between midnight and 8am, in her large second-floor bedroom. After a two-hour breakfast, her busy day begins with a visit to one of her many businesses, the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]], to check up on brewmaster [[Skyrim:Indaryn|Indaryn]] and the other employees. At noon she enjoys a two-hour lunch at the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]] with [[Skyrim:Vulwulf Snow-Shod|Vulwulf Snow-Shod]], before she pays a visit to Laila Law-Giver in Mistveil Keep at 2pm. At 4pm she browses the marketplace in the town center until 6pm when she returns home for a two-hour dinner. Her entire evening is spent at the Bee and Barb, until she finally heads back to her luxurious bedroom at midnight. There are only three exceptions to this routine: during the quest [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]] when she will stay hidden on the second floor of the Bee and Barb and hand out orders to you, during [[Skyrim:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]] when she will be one of the guests at the [[Skyrim:Thalmor Embassy|Thalmor Emabssy]], and during the Thieves Guild quest [[Skyrim:Under New Management|Under New Management]] when she will show up in the [[Skyrim:The_Ragged_Flagon_-_Cistern|Cistern]] of the [[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]] and oversee your initiation.<br />
<br />
If she is appointed jarl, Maven will move into [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep|Mistveil Keep]] with Hemming and Maul and follow a different routine befitting her new station. She sleeps in the [[Skyrim:Mistveil Keep Jarl's Chambers|jarl's chambers]] between midnight and 8am then heads downstairs and breakfasts with the rest of her court for two hours. She then takes the throne and stays there until her bedtime, interrupted only by two-hour meals at 1pm and 7pm. She runs all her operations from Mistveil Keep, but will still leave for the Bee and Barb during Dampened Spirits. If she is jarl, she will not turn up at the Thalmor Embassy during Diplomatic Immunity, although she will still turn up at the Ragged Flagon during Under New Management.<br />
<br />
Clearly the most influential citizen in Riften, Maven has the attitude to match, both when [[#Conversations|talking to the citizens]] and when talking to you. When you approach her she will greet you with disgust, saying: ''"I presume you're bothering me for a good reason?"'', ''"What in the name of Oblivion do you want?"'' or ''"I don't have time for idle chit-chat. What is it?"'' If you tell her that her name carries a lot of weight in Riften, she will reveal just how much weight: ''"Of course. Nothing gets done without my approval in this city. I have the Jarl's ear, and the guards in my pocket. Anyone makes trouble for me and I pay a visit to the Thieves Guild. Make me angry and I contact the Dark Brotherhood. You'd do well to remember that the next time you make such a stupid observation."'' After joining the Thieves Guild, you can also ask her how she became allied with them, to which she will respond: ''"The Black-Briar family has always been allied with the Guild. Our connections with the Empire and within Skyrim make for a perfect fit. I dare say the Guild owes its survival as much to my family as it does to its own people."'' When exiting conversation, you will always get a disgusted ''"I believe we're done."'' or ''"Out of my way."'' She shows little compassion for the poor and suffering and, when she is browsing the market in the afternoon, the local beggars will collect nothing of her wealth. When asking for a handout, [[Skyrim:Snilf|Snilf]] will receive a: ''"Never. Now move aside."'' while [[Skyrim:Edda|Edda]] will get an even more degrading: ''"Get away from me, you filthy woman."'' She is equally uninterested in [[Lore:Mara|Mara]] and the message of love, and if you attempt to hand her a [[Skyrim:The_Warmth_of_Mara|pamphlet]] during [[Skyrim:Spread the Love|Spread the Love]], she will accept it as a joke: ''"Excellent, I needed some more kindling for my kitchen hearth."'' If the Imperial Legion conquers the Rift and she is made jarl, she will do very little but live the good life inside Mistveil Keep, happily noting that she finally found a position suitable for her influence, saying: ''"The throne suits me, don't you think?"'', ''"My title is just a formality. I've always been in charge around here."'' and ''"Jarl Maven Black-Briar. Has a pleasant sound to it, wouldn't you say?"''<br />
<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
{{TOCright|limit=3}}<br />
== Related Quests ==<br />
'''Thieves Guild Questline'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Dampened Spirits}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|The Pursuit}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Vald's Debt}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Under New Management}}<br />
'''Mistveil Keep Quests'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|The Raid}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|Supply and Demand}}<br />
* {{Quest Link|I Done Got Thaned!}}<br />
'''Riften Quests'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Promises to Keep}}<br />
'''Main Questline'''<br />
* {{Quest Link|Diplomatic Immunity}}<br />
<br />
== Quest-related Events ==<br />
===Loud and Clear===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Loud_and_Clear_04.jpg|thumb|right|''"The Guild depends on an arrangement of influential people to keep things running smoothly."'']]<br />
At the beginning of [[Skyrim:Loud and Clear|Loud and Clear]], [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] will introduce you to [[Skyrim:Mercer Frey|Mercer Frey]] who will put your skills to the test with a job that even [[Skyrim:Vex|Vex]] couldn't do—breaking into [[Skyrim:Goldenglow Estate|Goldenglow Estate]]. He will explain: ''"Goldenglow Estate is critically important to one of our largest clients. However, the owner has suddenly decided to take matters into his own hands and shut us out. He needs to be taught a lesson. Brynjolf will provide you with the details."'' Brynjolf will then take over: ''"Goldenglow Estate is a bee farm; they raise the wretched little things for honey. It's owned by some smart-mouth wood elf named [[Skyrim:Aringoth|Aringoth]]. We need you to teach him a lesson by burning down three of the estate's hives and clearing out the safe in the main house."'' However, the unnamed 'client' will not tolerate you burning down the entire estate: ''"The catch is that you can't burn the whole place to the ground. That important client Mercer mentioned would be furious if you did."'' He will explain why upsetting the important client would be bad for the Guild: ''"That's not how things work around here. The Guild depends on an arrangement of influential people to keep things running smoothly. Without them at our backs, we'd be in serious trouble."''<br />
<br />
When you ask what should be done with Aringoth, Brynjolf will reveal the name of the client: ''"Maven prefers that Aringoth remains alive, but if he tries to stop you from getting the job done, kill him. The Guild has a lot riding on this. Don't make me look foolish by mucking it up."'' When asked why the entire estate can't be leveled, Brynjolf will explain: ''"I'll give you one good reason. Maven Black-Briar. Burn all the hives and she'd have to import honey for Black-Briar Meadery which would cut into her profits."'' He will then explain further about the cooperation between Maven and the Guild: ''"We had an arrangement with Maven. We kept an eye on Goldenglow Estate to make sure the honey kept flowing. If the workers had a dispute, we'd rough them up. If competitors tried to buy honey from Aringoth, we'd steal the shipments. In return, Maven allowed us to extort Aringoth and bring in a huge payout."'' When asked how dangerous Maven is, Brynjolf will say: ''"Let me put it to you this way. Nothing happens in Riften without Maven's consent. One word from her and you could spend the rest of the fourth era in prison."''<br />
<br />
However, should you talk to Aringoth inside Goldenglow, you will find that he is quite scared: ''"I didn't think Maven or Mercer would allow me to get away with this, but I had little choice."'' Ask him for the safe's key and he'll refuse, terrified: ''"I can't. If I do, I may as well cut my own throat."'' If you successfully persuade him to hand over the key he'll sigh: ''"Fine. Take it! Once the new owner finds out I gave in, I'm as good as dead anyway."''When you return to Brynjolf with the ''[[Skyrim:Goldenglow_Bill_of_Sale_(safe)|Goldenglow Bill of Sale]]'' from the safe, Brynjolf's response will differ depending on your efforts with the burning of the beehives. If you did it wrong, he will say: ''"You've made a mess of things and Maven's furious. I told you not to burn more than three of the hives! I've smoothed things over with her for now, but you can forget your cut."'' If you did well, he will greet you with: ''"Word on the street is Goldenglow's been hit. Good job, lad/lass."'' He will then look at the bill and say: ''"Aringoth sold Goldenglow? What's that idiot thinking? He has no idea the extent of Maven's fury when she's been cut out of a deal, but I'm certain he'll find out. If only this parchment had the buyer's name instead of this odd symbol. Any idea what that might be?"'' When you say 'no' he will send you to Maven with the words: ''"Blast. Well, I'll check my sources and speak to Mercer. But for now, you're off to speak to Maven Black-Briar. She asked for you by name."'' To respond to this unsettling invitation, you are presented with three options:<br />
{|class=wikitable width="100%"<br />
!width=27%|Option<br />
!Dialogue<br />
|-<br />
|Good, it's about time I met her.||''"Don't sound so eager, it's not a social visit. It's business."''<br />
|-<br />
|I thought I did the job like you asked...?||''"Oh, no. Nothing like that. You're calling on her for business."''<br />
|-<br />
|Sure, but will I come out of there alive?||''"Ha ha. If it was like that she wouldn't be asking for you, she'd be calling on the Dark Brotherhood. It's just business."''<br />
|}<br />
When you ask him what Maven wants, Brynjolf will respond: ''"That's between you and Maven and I prefer to keep it that way. Just keep your ears open and your mouth shut and you'll do fine."'' '''OR''' ''"Don't worry about it. Maven's business dealings usually involve quite a bit of gold for her people."'' After handing you the reward, the quest ends and Brynjolf will repeat: ''"Maven wants to see you right away. I suggest you head right over."'' This starts the next quest, [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]].<br />
<br />
===Dampened Spirits===<br />
Inside the newly opened [[Skyrim:Honningbrew Meadery|Honningbrew Meadery]] near [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]] stands confident owner [[Skyrim:Sabjorn|Sabjorn]], who will sell his produce saying: ''"Honningbrew uses only the finest natural honey, not that sludge you'll find at Goldenglow Estate."'' and ''"Black-Briar Mead is just fine, if you need something to wash the dirt off a riding horse's hooves."'' This kind of unfriendly competition is not acceptable for Maven and you will find her waiting for you on the second floor of the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]], obviously not interested in attracting too much attention. When she sees you, her greeting will differ depending on your efforts back at Goldenglow. If you managed to screw it up, she will be disgusted and say: ''"So you're the one that burned down Goldenglow Estate. Do you have any idea what that little stunt you pulled is going to cost me? I'm amazed you even bothered to show your face here."'' If you did well, she will only say: ''"So, you're the one. Hmm. You don't look so impressive."'' However, you will be presented with three different options, again depending on your past efforts. The table below displays all possible variations and the conditions:<br />
<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!Effort at Goldenglow<br />
!Option<br />
!Maven's response<br />
|-<br />
!rowspan=3| Success<br />
| I'm the best at what I do.<br />
| ''"Is that confidence I hear... or is it arrogance? Strange how often they're confused. You have to understand, it's been a long time since Brynjolf's sent me anyone I can rely on."''<br />
|-<br />
| How about we skip the conversation?<br />
| ''"You're a firebrand, aren't you? It's about time Brynjolf sent me someone with business sense. I was beginning to think he was running some sort of beggar's guild over there."''<br />
|-<br />
| Sorry you're disappointed.<br />
| ''"This is exactly what I'm talking about. Once again Brynjolf sends me someone with no backbone, no determination."''<br />
|-<br />
! Failure<br />
| My apologies, Lady Maven.<br />
| ''"The only reason we're having this conversation is due to Brynjolf's assurance you won't botch another assignment. He claims you possess some sort of uncanny aptitude for your line of work. Quite frankly I find that hard to believe."''<br />
|}<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_03.jpg|thumb|right|''"Faith? I don't have faith in anyone."'']]<br />
After that, you can ask her if she has no faith in the Thieves Guild: ''"Faith? I don't have faith in anyone. All I care about is cause and effect. Did the job get done and was it done correctly. There's no gray area."'' You can now tell her she won't have any problems like that with you and she will say: ''"I hope not. This is an important job. I have a competitor called Honningbrew Meadery that I want to put out of business. I also want to know how they managed to get the place up and running so quickly."'' She will then explain what needs to be done beforehand: ''"Head to the Bannered Mare in Whiterun and look for Mallus Maccius. He'll fill you in on all the details."'' At this point, you can ask for an elaboration on the owner at Honningbrew: ''"Some layabout named Sabjorn. Been a thorn in my side for the last few years now."'' When you point out that Sabjorn seems like more than just friendly competition, she will admit: ''"Not a day goes by that I don't regret letting Sabjorn get as far as he did. In only a few short years, he's taken that bile he calls mead to market and a chunk of my profits with it! I can't imagine where he found the gold to take it to market so quickly."'' She then admits he needs to be taken out: ''"Exactly. With Sabjorn in prison, his meadery will be forced to close. Then I swoop in and take over the place. No more competition."'' She will send you away with a warning: ''"One more time in case I wasn't clear. You butcher this job and you'll be sorry."'' You can ask her why she strikes the Honningbrew Meadery now: ''"The Goldenglow Estate job has undoubtedly interrupted the supply of honey I need to make my mead. Sabjorn could use this interruption to his advantage and collect a larger share of the market. I can't have that."'' Otherwise, she will just ask you to hurry: ''"Shouldn't you be on your way to Whiterun?"'' and ''"Why aren't you at Honningbrew Meadery?"''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Mallus_Maccius_02.jpg|thumb|left|''"Maven and I spent weeks planning this."'']]<br />
In [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]], unhappy brewmaster [[Skyrim:Mallus Maccius|Mallus Maccius]] will share the clever plan about poisoning the brewing vats and will finish with: ''"Maven and I spent weeks planning this. All we need is someone like you to get in there and get it done."'' He will also add: ''"Once Sabjorn is out of the way, Maven has plans for this place."'' He will then explain his motives for ruining things for Sabjorn: ''"Maven and I worked out a little deal. If Sabjorn ends up in jail, she's going to take over his meadery. And guess who gets to run the Black-Briar Meadery in Whiterun? You're looking at him."''<br />
<br />
After the deed is done and Sabjorn is behind bars, ask Mallus for permission to look at Sabjorn's books and he will say: ''"So, Maven wants to hunt down Sabjorn's private partner, huh?"'' and hand you the key. When you mention the presence of [[Skyrim:Hamelyn|Hamelyn]] in the basement, he will admit: ''"I thought it would be better to leave some of the details out of our previous discussion. Didn't want to risk you walking away from the job. Besides, you've done Maven a favor getting rid of him and saved me from wasting coin hiring someone else to do it later."'' Lastly, he will tell you what he will do to the old Honningbrew Meadery: ''"Start changing it over to the Black-Briar Meadery West as soon as possible. That was Maven's part of the deal. She's put me in charge of keeping the mead flowing, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. If you're in the area and you ever need anything fenced, you just let me know."'' He will bid you farewell with: ''"Remember to put in a good word with Maven for me."'' In Sabjorn's private quarters you will find an [[Skyrim:Have Need of Cynric|offer]] from Maven, along with the [[Skyrim:Promissory Note|promissory note]].<br />
<br />
Back in the Bee and Barb, Maven will be waiting for you, greeting you with an impatient: ''"I trust you have good news for me."'' Two options will reflect whether or not you failed at Honningbrew Meadery. If you failed, you will get a good talking-to before Maven will take the promissory note from you.<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!Effort at Honningbrew<br />
!Option<br />
!Maven's response<br />
|-<br />
!rowspan=2| Failure<br />
| Job's finished. Here's the information you requested.<br />
| ''"Have you lost your mind? I thought it was clear I didn't want anyone killed. Now I have to spend a fortune to keep the whole thing quiet. Guess where that money comes from."''<br />
|-<br />
| I'm sorry, Maven.<br />
| ''"The only thing keeping me from having you killed is Brynjolf. He's stepped in and made amends. At least you remembered to bring me the information I requested. Give me that."''<br />
|-<br />
! (missing?)<br />
| ?'''?'''?'''?'''<br />
| '''just a reminder to look into this, per conversation in IRC :)'''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Whether or not you succeeded or failed, Maven will take the note from you and be annoyed: ''"This doesn't tell me much. The only thing that could identify Sabjorn's partner is this odd little symbol."'' She will continue with: ''"Well, whoever this mysterious marking represents, they'll regret starting a war with me. You should bring this information to the Thieves Guild immediately. There's also the matter of your payment. I believe you'll find this more than adequate for your services."'' After handing you the reward, she will send you away with: ''"I believe we're done."'' Back in the [[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]], Brynjolf will comment: ''"Word on the street is that poor Sabjorn has found himself in Whiterun's prison. How unfortunate for him."'' When you remark that it was fortunate for Maven, Brynjol will respond: ''"Exactly! Now you're beginning to see how our little system works. Maven sent word that you discovered something else while you were out there. Something important to the Guild?"'' When you tell him about the symbol, he will say: ''"Then this is beyond coincidence. First Aringoth and now Sabjorn. Someone's trying to take us down by driving a wedge between Maven and the Guild."'' He will then send you to see Mercer Frey, thus ending the quest. Should you pay Mallus Maccius a visit in his new brewery, he will happily say: ''"Maven Black-Briar always remembers her friends. That's why I'm in charge of the place."''<br />
<br />
=== Scoundrel's Folly ===<br />
The next quest, [[Skyrim:Scoundrel's Folly|Scoundrel's Folly]], takes you to an angry Mercer Frey who has been equally unable to identify the strange symbol. He concludes: ''"It would seem our adversary is attempting to take us apart indirectly by angering Maven Black-Briar. Very clever."'' However, the unknown enemy made a mistake and Mercer orders you to visit an old Thieves Guild accomplice, [[Skyrim:Gulum-Ei|Gulum-Ei]], who used to be their contact in [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]]'s [[Skyrim:East Empire Company|East Empire Company]]. You are to seek him out and shake the truth out of him, in an attempt to identify who bought Goldenglow. Before leaving for Solitude, pay a visit to Maven and tell her about current events. It turns out she has been in contact with Mercer: ''"Yes, we spoke at length while you were in Whiterun dealing with our meadery situation. I hope for all your sakes you find out who's behind this supposed 'plot.'"'' She will then explain her choice of words: ''"Having Goldenglow kept in line by the Thieves Guild has kept the honey flowing with minimal cost. Now, mysteriously, some sort of anonymous adversary shows up and takes the Estate out of my hands."'' She will then admit she starts to doubt the Thieves Guild: ''"When you've been doing business like I have for decades, you quickly discover that the only person you can trust is yourself."'' According to Maven there is only one way to regain her trust in the Guild: ''"If you were to bring me the deed to Goldenglow Estate, so I was the full owner, that would be a step in the right direction."'' If that happens, she will be willing to compensate: ''"Since I know losing the farm's payments will harm the Guild, I intend to make a substantial contribution for compensation. I take care of my friends."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Gulum-Ei_02.jpg|thumb|left]]<br />
After your lengthy trek through the Empire Company Warehouse and Brinewater Grotto, stubborn Argonian Gulum-Ei will finally be scared enough to tell the truth about how he acted as middleman in the sale of Goldenglow, as well as who was behind it: [[Skyrim:Karliah|Karliah]], the thief responsible for murdering Mercer Frey's predecessor, Gallus. While the plot thickens, Maven will once again be brought up, after Gulum-Ei hands you the deed to Goldenglow Estate: ''"Here, take the Goldenglow Estate Deed as proof. And when you speak to Mercer, tell him I'm worth more to him alive."'' Now you can ask him why Karliah purchased Goldenglow, and the plan will be obvious: ''"I asked her the same thing and she wouldn't come out and tell me. But now that I know who she is, I'd say she's trying to hit the Thieves Guild where it hurts."'' He will then explain: ''"Maven Black-Briar needs Goldenglow's honey for her mead. She's been using the Guild to keep the Estate under her thumb. If the owner cuts the Guild out of the picture, he's cutting Maven out of the picture... which she can't afford. If I was Maven, I'd blame the Guild for weakening and not being able to handle the place."'' He will then state the obvious, that Maven would lose faith in the Guild, exactly as she told you back in Riften: ''"Exactly. For the Guild to survive, they need Maven's support. This Karliah must have spent a lot of time and resources planning this."'' When you return to Mercer Frey, he will be so shocked to hear the name Karliah, that Maven and her funds will be temporarily forgotten while you go through [[Skyrim:Snow Veil Sanctum|Snow Veil Sanctum]] with Mercer during the quest [[Skyrim:Speaking With Silence|Speaking With Silence]].<br />
<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
===The Pursuit===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Karliah_09.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Karliah|Karliah]]]]<br />
When Mercer betrays you at the end of Speaking With Silence, the conversation between Mercer and Karliah makes it clear who bought Goldenglow Estate and funded Honningbrew Meadery, simply to lure Mercer out in the open due to the rage of Maven Black-Briar, as she explains it inside Snow Veil Sanctum: ''"'To ensure an enemy's defeat, you must first undermine his allies.' It was the first lesson Gallus taught us."'' Brynjolf will comment on Karliah's actions with admiration: ''"Trying to make Mercer look bad in front of Maven, eh? Clever lass."'' When you find [[Skyrim: Gallus's Encoded Journal|proof]] of Mercer's betrayal during the quest [[Skyrim:Hard Answers]], Karliah finally comes out of hiding and convinces Brynjolf, Vex, and [[Skyrim:Delvin Mallory|Delvin Mallory]] that Mercer needs to be taken out, especially after showing them the emptied treasury. During the quest [[Skyrim:The Pursuit|The Pursuit]], Brynjolf will ask you to investigate Mercer's residence, [[Skyrim:Riftweald Manor|Riftweald Manor]], for clues on Mercer's location. According to Brynjolf, Mercer inherited the manor from the Black-Briars: ''"Aye. A gift from the Black-Briars after they kicked the previous family out... place called Riftweald Manor. He never stays there, just pays for the upkeep on it. Hired some lout by the name of Vald to guard the place."''<br />
<br />
===Vald's Debt===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Vald_02.jpg|thumb|left]]<br />
Brynjolf will then elaborate on [[Skyrim:Vald|Vald]], starting the concurrent quest [[Skyrim:Vald's Debt|Vald's Debt]]: ''"A real piece of work, that one. Mercer's holding something over his head, keeping him loyal. Talk to Vex. She used to know him very well... if you catch my meaning."'' When you speak to [[Skyrim:Vex|Vex]] she will tell you what it takes to remove Vald from the property: ''"Sure, but he'll ask for a whole lot. I mean, you are asking him to betray Mercer Frey. Your best bet would be to erase his debt with Maven Black-Briar. If you talk to her, she might be able to give you the details."'' When confronted in the backyard of Riftweald Manor, Vald himself will echo Vex's statements: ''"You ain't got enough coin to make my problems go away unless ya' can talk Maven Black-Briar into letting me outta' my debt."''<br />
<br />
When Maven is confronted with this demand, she will be less than impressed: ''"Vald? Why would you want to help that idiot? He owes me a steep debt. In fact, he's lucky all I did was force him to work for Mercer."'' She will then explain why Vald owes her: ''"A few years back, I commissioned a unique quill from a good friend of mine in Winterhold. Vald was tasked with getting it here safely and it ended up at the bottom of Lake Honrich."'' She will then elaborate on the [[Skyrim:Quill of Gemination|Quill of Gemination]]: ''"The wizards called it the Quill of Gemination and demanded a tremendous amount of gold to have it made. If you can locate the quill and return it to me, something Vald was too stupid to do himself, I'll consider the debt satisfied."'' While her offer is more than generous for her usual standards, you can still ask her what the Quill of Gemination was supposed to do: ''"The quill was supposed to allow me to duplicate any writing I'm viewing in exacting detail. I'm sure you can understand how useful that would prove in a business situation, especially where signatures were involved."'' She will also explain that the Quill was personalized: ''"Fortunately, the quill required an ink with a unique formula known only to myself. So if you're getting any ideas about selling it to someone else or keeping it, you'll find it would hold little value."'' As you will have to receive the quill to get Vald out of his debt, you can ask Maven how it ended up in [[Skyrim:Lake Honrich|Lake Honrich]]: ''"I had Vald meet the caravan from Winterhold on the western end of the lake so he could avoid the roads. The idiot got lost in the mist and ran his boat right over some rocks, sending it straight to the bottom. He's too stupid to remember where he was, and any attempt I've made to find it in the past has been unsuccessful."'' She will then provide a hint: ''"Vald said his rowboat struck some rocks... I'd check under the water near one of the small islands in the lake. Perhaps you should start at the docks and work your way out towards Goldenglow Estate."''<br />
<br />
When found and located, return to Maven with the Quill of Gemination and she will say: ''"Really? I wrote that off a long time ago. Well, I suppose I need to fulfill my end of the bargain. Give this document to Vald. It frees him from the debt, but I never want to see him in Riften again."'' In the backyard of Riftweald Manor, Vald will be quite surprised to see his debt erased: ''"I can't believe it! How did ya' talk her into this? Never mind, I don't care. I'm just glad I don't gotta' work for Maven anymore. Here, ya' did me a favor, I guess I owe you one."'' He will then provide access to the backyard of the manor and disappear{{huh}} from the game.<br />
<br />
===Under New Management===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_05.jpg|thumb|right|''"We'll talk after this ridiculous ceremony."'']]<br />
Incidentally, this will be Maven's last active quest in the Thieves Guild questline, and it is never resolved whether or not she is happy with how things turned out. Seemingly, she is quite happy as she will make a surprise appearance much later, when you are finally honored for restoring the Thieves Guild during the quest [[Skyrim:Under New Management|Under New Management]]. If you haven't done the ceremony, Maven will tell you, ''"Not now, you idiot. We'll talk after this ridiculous ceremony."'' If you are about to talk to Brynjolf or have done so, Maven will also say, ''"I suppose congratulations are in order. Now don't screw it up."''<br />
<br />
===The Raid===<br />
After you have helped rid [[Skyrim:Wujeeta|Wujeeta]] of her [[Skyrim:Skooma|skooma]] addiction during [[Skyrim:Helping Hand|Helping Hand]], you will receive an objective to find the skooma dealer in Riften. When asked, Wujeeta will admit getting the drug from one [[Skyrim:Sarthis_Idren|Sarthis Idren]] at [[Skyrim:Riften Warehouse|Riften Warehouse]]. The warehouse is locked around the clock, but Wujeeta will point you towards the current jarl for the key. If Maven has been appointed jarl, you will have to deal with her to get the key. When you tell her you found a skooma dealer in Riften, she names him right away: ''"Ah yes, Sarthis... a thorn in my side for the last few years. I've tried repeatedly to eradicate that meddler, but he has ears within the city guard. Gives us the slip every time we raid the warehouse. However, if you'd wish to eliminate that burden for me... well, let's just say it would go a long way with earning my favor."'' If you reject her, she will get angry: ''"Let me give you a word of advice. Think about your choices carefully from now on. You'll go much farther in Riften with me on your side."'' If you accept, she will hand you the [[Skyrim:Riften Warehouse Key|warehouse key]] with the words: ''"Good. Here, take the key to the warehouse. Pay dear old Sarthis a visit and tell him Maven sends her regards, would you?"'' Obviously, Sarthis will not survive your visit, and the [[Skyrim:Shipment's Ready|evidence]] you find in the warehouse will start the next quest, [[Skyrim:Supply and Demand|Supply and Demand]].<br />
<br />
===Supply and Demand===<br />
When you report back to Maven, she will state: ''"Results speak volumes over words and you've just proved it. Did you happen to discover where the fetcher was getting his skooma from?"'' When you tell her they are at [[Skyrim:Cragslane Cavern|Cragslane Cavern]] she will not hesitate with a death warrant on the persons responsible: ''"Then I want you to head out there immediately and eliminate all of them. I can't afford to have another Sarthis blunder into Riften because they think we're too lazy to disrupt their pitiful operation. Do this task for me and you'll be well on your way to a title in Riften."'' If you reject, she will get angry again: ''"I'm very disappointed. I'd advise you to rethink that decision soon."'' If you accept she will just send you on your way with: ''"Good. Make sure not one of them escapes alive."'' Once you have cleared Cragslane Cavern, a return to Maven will make her say: ''"I'll send my men to secure any of the remaining goods you left behind. We can't have that substance falling into the wrong hands now, can we? Here, this should suffice as your cut of the... or rather, a reward for your actions. Now, if you'll excuse me..."'' This opens up for the final quest with Maven as jarl, specifically [[Skyrim:I Done Got Thaned!|I Done Got Thaned!]]<br />
<br />
===I Done Got Thaned!===<br />
After [[Skyrim:The Raid|The Raid]] and [[Skyrim:Supply and Demand|Supply and Demand]], Maven will finally be willing to name you Thane of the Rift. You can ask her if there is anything else you can do for Riften and she will answer: ''"So, I've been hearing your name in court quite a bit lately. I've been informed by my steward that you've made quite an impression in the Rift; the people won't stop blathering about you."'' She will then tell you what the blathering is about: ''"Oh don't pretend to be modest. I'm talking about your new role as champion. Apparently, you've taken my people under your wing. If you think you can steal my throne by winning the hearts of the people, that's where you're wrong. Keep that in mind. However, since it wouldn't behoove me to make you disappear, I'd rather have you on my side as Thane of Riften."'' When you accept the offer, her response depends on whether or not you have purchased a house in Riften. If you own a house, she will say: ''"You damn well better. I've checked with my court and apparently you're fully eligible... there's nothing standing in the way of presenting you the title."'' If not, she will instead point you towards Hemming: ''"Not so fast, there's a matter of residence to be discussed. In order to have the title bestowed upon you, you need to purchase a house within Riften. And by the Eight, aren't you fortunate that my steward has just the place for you to buy. After the place is yours, come back to me and we'll deal with the rest of the nonsense."'' When you have purchased a house, she will tell you: ''"I expect that you'll distance yourself from the affairs of state. In other words, keep your nose out of my business and we'll do just fine. Just remember that you're only a part of my court, this doesn't make you one of the family. I guess all that's left is to bestow the title. What were those words again? Doesn't matter... the title is yours. I henceforth name you Thane of Riften. Don't disappoint me."''<br />
<br />
===Promises to Keep===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Louis_Letrush_03.jpg|thumb|left|[[Skyrim:Louis Letrush|Louis Letrush]]]]<br />
In addition to keeping the Thieves Guild and the Black-Briar Meadery in check, Maven will also face problems with an old accomplice, specifically [[Skyrim:Louis Letrush|Louis Letrush]] who can be found at the [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|Bee and Barb]]. Not surprisingly, the imprisoned [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi Black-Briar]] has unfinished business and Louis will ask you for help, saying: ''"Looking for work? I need someone to deliver a message to Sibbi Black-Briar."'' When asked about the message he will explain his problem: ''"Ah, well, I recently approached Sibbi Black-Briar about buying [[Skyrim:Frost|Frost]], one of the finest breeding horses in Skyrim. He agreed to sell. I paid Sibbi half the cost of Frost up front, but before he could deliver, Maven had him locked up. Sibbi believes this exempts him from our deal. It does not. I want you to talk to Sibbi for me. Then, I want you to bring me Frost and the Lineage Papers that prove the horse's worth."'' You can then ask him to elaborate on a few things. When asked about why Sibbi is in jail, he will respond: ''"No idea, but whatever he did it must have angered Maven. No guard would lock up a Black-Briar without the old lady's permission."''<br />
<br />
When you approach Sibbi Black-Briar in his luxurious cell in Riften Jail and tell him Letrush sent you, he will respond: ''"Ah, and let me guess. He wants his horse. Well, that's going to be a bit of a problem. You see, I don't really outright 'own' Frost..."'' When you ask him if he doesn't even own the horse, he will concur: ''"That is correct. You see, Frost belongs to the Black-Briar estate. Technically everything in the estate is owned by my mother, Maven. My plan was to take the horse from our lodge and deliver it to Letrush at the stables. Obviously, that didn't exactly work out as I'd planned... Still, I don't want to cross Letrush. Tell you what. Steal the horse and deliver it, and you can have the second half of the payment."'' At this point you can attempt to persuade him. If you fail, he will comment: ''"Nice try, but my mother's already got me in jail. Maybe you should try that one on Letrush."'' If you succeed he will offer you a [[Skyrim:Sibbi's Stash Key|key to a stash of gold]]: ''"Sure - take advantage of the guy in jail. Okay, fine. I can make the deal sweeter. I obviously don't have anything here, but... there's a hidden stash in the Lodge. And I did manage to hold on to the key... Take it."'' Lastly, you can just accept his offer and he will say: ''"Then I think we're done talking."'' However, you can still ask him what the logic of stealing Maven's horse is: ''"I'm not stealing anything. Besides, some jail time isn't going to make me roll over and play dead."'' Lastly, you can seek advice from the leaders of the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]], but to no avail. [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] will say: ''"So Sibbi finally got the nerve to bare his teeth, eh? Look, this sounds like a family matter and I don't want the Guild in the middle of it. You do what you want. Just don't expect us to at your back when Maven has your head on the executioner's block."'', while [[Skyrim:Delvin Mallory|Delvin Mallory]] will say: ''"Guess I should have known. Maven and Sibbi have been at odds ever since she had him tossed into jail. Look, if I were you, I'd proceed carefully. Crossin' Maven is one of the first things you learn not to do when you're down here. As far as the Guild's concerned this is between Sibbi and Maven, so we're going to officially stay out of it."''<br />
<br />
At this point, you can choose to double-cross both Sibbi and Louis and go directly to Maven and tell her what is happening behind her back (note that this course of action will cause a slight [[Skyrim:Promises to Keep#Bugs|bug]]). When confronted with the plot to steal Frost, Maven will say: ''"Don't tell me - Sibbi and Louis Letrush? Well, Sibbi is in jail and Letrush is certainly welcome to try. My hired help is more than a match for him."'' When you tell her that Louis wants you to steal the horse, she will respond: ''"Really? Now that is interesting... Then you should know that Louis and I have a certain... history. Tell you what. Go along with his plans for now. I'll keep an eye on you both and, when the time is right, I'll settle accounts with Louis."'' This will not affect the quest, and you will still have to meet up with Louis Letrush in the forest after stealing Frost. You can then negotiate with him. The option about telling Maven is available regardless of your earlier choices:<br />
<br />
{|class=wikitable<br />
!width=30%|Option<br />
!colspan=4|Dialogue<br />
|-<br />
| I'm going to Maven unless I leave here with Frost. '''(Persuade)'''||colspan=4|'''Passed''': ''"You're playing a dangerous game, my friend. Fine, you win. Take the horse and leave."''<br>'''Failed''': ''"And telling her what? That you stole her horse? I don't think so."''<br />
|-<br />
| If you were dead, I could keep the horse... '''(Intimidate)'''||colspan=4|'''Passed''': ''"Now wait a minute... No need to do anything drastic. Look, Keep the horse, all right? Then we all walk away happy..."''<br>'''Failed''': ''"Well ain't that the truth of it. All right, then. Let's see what you've got!"''<br />
|-<br />
| Speaking of my pay...'''||colspan=4|''"Yes, yes. Here it is. I think I'd best be off now."''<br />
|}<br />
Regardless of your choice, and even if he ends up threatening you, he will never attack.<br />
<br />
===Diplomatic Immunity===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_04.jpg|thumb|right|''"I do respect power, and the Thalmor have that."'']]<br />
During the quest [[Skyrim:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], Maven will quite often be found at [[Skyrim:Elenwen|Elenwen]]'s part at the [[Skyrim:Thalmor Embassy|Thalmor Embassy]], drifting around and chatting with the other guests. When you approach her she will be surprised: ''"I don't recall seeing you at one of these before. And I know everyone who's anyone in Skyrim."'' She will then point towards [[Skyrim:Razelan|Razelan]], stating: ''"See that disgusting drunk over there? A high-ranking official in the East Empire Company, believe it or not."'' If [[Skyrim:General Tullius|General Tullius]] is at the party as well, she will comment: ''"That's General Tullius himself. He can't stand Elenwen, but she insists that he attend these parties. Just to piss him off, no doubt."'' Your dialogue options with her depend on whether or not you have completed the quest [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. If you have yet to complete it, you will have two options:<br><br />
'''What brings you to this party?''' ''"To maintain relationships. By the way, I don't know who you are, but unless you want me to blow your cover, I'd advise that you avoid me for the rest of the party."''<br><br />
'''What's your relationship with the Thalmor?''' "''We have a relationship of mutual respect. I care little about the politics and rivalries between the Thalmor and the Empire. But I do respect power, and the Thalmor have that. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone."''<br />
<br />
'''I didn't know you had dealings with the Thalmor.''' ''"Have you learned nothing about me? I have dealings with everyone. Now, leave me. I don't want to arouse suspicion by talking to someone that clearly doesn't belong here."''<br><br />
'''Are you here on guild business?''' ''"Don't mention the Guild. In fact, it's better if you don't speak to me at all. This is not the place."''<br />
<br />
You were supposed to ask her to cause a distraction. However, none of Maven's quests will raise her disposition accordingly, so the option never becomes available. Click the show/hide button to the right to see the missing dialogue.<br />
{{Showhide/Start|Maven Distraction →}}<br />
'''I need your help with something.''' ''"I'm listening."''<br><br />
'''I need you to cause a scene. Get everyone's attention for a few minutes.''' ''"I don't even want to know, do I? But for you... all right. I'll do it."'' '''OR''' ''"You've got a lot of nerve, suggesting something like that, to me of all people! If this was Riften, I'd have you thrown in the dungeon!"''<br />
<br />
I'm doing as you asked. Not for nothing, I hope?<br />
<br />
'''Maven Black-Briar''': ''"You've got a lot of nerve, suggesting something like that, to me of all people! If this was Riften, I'd have you thrown in the dungeon!"''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"What? I didn't... hmm? No, listen, you must have misunderstood... I don't mean to say I wouldn't be interested... what I mean is..."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You're a disgrace to the Empire. To think that you're actually a representative of the East Empire Company. When people talk about the decadent, tottering Empire, it's people like you they have in mind!"''<br><br />
'''Elenwen''': ''"Razalan. And you promised to behave yourself this time. Remove him. He's disturbing the other guests."''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"I protest! This is an insult to the dignity of my person! This time I'm completely innocent! / This is preposterous. Disrespect... insulting! I am tired of being hounded from all sides! / Madame Ambassador, you know that I would never have behaved... that is to say... well I swear I'm innocent this time!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Well, now. There's no need to ruin the party on my account. I don't think he'll be bothering me again."''<br><br />
'''Razelan''': ''"Absolutely not! I protest... uh, that is, yes, of course. I still don't understand what just... oh never mind. / That is absolutely untrue! Uh, that is, yes, of course. What... I don't understand why everyone... never mind."''<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
<br />
==Rumors and Other Dialogue==<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
<br />
===The Black-Briars===<br />
The Black-Briar family is well-known all over the Rift, mainly due to their questionable reputation and Maven's habit of stomping all over every obstacle. This not only includes her business relations and employers, it also includes her own family, as testified by the imprisonment of [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi Black-Briar]], who dared to anger Maven and ended up in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]]. [[Skyrim:Hemming Black-Briar|Hemming Black-Briar]] merely spends all of his time inside Black-Briar Manor, waiting to take over the family business, while [[Skyrim:Ingun Black-Briar|Ingun Black-Briar]] hates the family business and has ambitions of becoming an alchemist, much to Maven's regret.<br />
<br />
====Ingun Black-Briar====<br />
Ingun works as an apprentice for [[Skyrim:Elgrim|Elgrim]] at [[Skyrim:Elgrim's Elixirs|Elgrim's Elixirs]] and dreams of becoming an alchemist. She rarely talks about anything but ingredients, although you can ask her about her family: ''"Hmph. My family. All that wealth and they squander it on foolish ventures and political schemes. I was meant for so much more than all of this... I wish to pledge my life and ply my talents in darker circles. If only my mother would let me, I would make her proud."'' Maven, however, thinks little of her efforts to make her proud and will instead treat her to her usual methods:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Ingun, how much longer do you intend to waste your life concocting your foolish little potions?"''<br><br />
'''Ingun''': ''"I've told you, my interest in the family business is quite low. I wish to be much more than just a merchant."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Your interests lay where I wish them to lay otherwise my favorite daughter may end up homeless and without a septim to her name. Is that clear?"''<br><br />
'''Ingun''': ''"Yes, mother."''<br />
<br />
====Sibbi Black-Briar====<br />
Sibbi Black-Briar is currently imprisoned in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]] for the murder of his girlfriend's brother, Wulfur; not because he was caught by the guards, but because Maven ordered it: ''"Mother thought I should be taught a lesson for airing the family's dirty laundry in public. I mean, I've... taken care of many people for her in the past. What in Oblivion did she expect me to do? Ah well. At least I have all the comforts of home during my stay. Well, except the touch of a woman of course."'' When talking about the family, Sibbi will proudly explain: ''"When speaking of the Black-Briars, only one thought should spring to mind. We are not to be trifled with. Help us, you end up rich. Cross us and you'll end up a memory. Is that enough information for you?"'' You will have to deal with both Sibbi and Maven during the quest [[Skyrim:Promises to Keep|Promises to Keep]]; please see [[#Promises to Keep|this section]] for details.<br />
<br />
====Hemming Black-Briar====<br />
Hemming is seemingly the quiet family member and will mostly brag about his skills as a warrior. However, he will also mention how his mother favors him: ''"My mother spares no expense where I'm concerned. I'm heir to the family fortune after all."'' He will also reveal his ambitions for the Black-Briar Meadery: ''"Once I'm in charge I have bigger aspirations than just Skyrim. I plan to bring Black-Briar Mead to all of Tamriel."'' He will then tell you: ''"My children, Sibbi and Ingun, are being groomed to run the family business one day as well."'' Lastly, he will describe Sibbi and Ingun: ''"Sibbi will prove to be a fine leader one day, but Ingun... that girl has her mind somewhere other than business."'' He will then tell you how Maven feels about Ingun: ''"Maven's disappointed that Ingun's heart isn't in the family business, but she says 'Ingun still has her uses.' Not sure what that means."'' However, Hemming is deeply involved with most of the illegal operations supervised by Maven, as evident by their conversations at the Bee and Barb:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_11.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, I want you to personally supervise the next shipment."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"We already have people that do that and they make quite a bit of coin for it."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't trust them. Come to think of it, I don't trust you either, but at least you're family."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Anything you say, Mother."''<br />
<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"[[Skyrim:Bersi Honey-Hand|Bersi]] still refuses to cooperate. What did you want to do?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I've known Bersi a long time. Even before he opened that rubbish heap he calls a [[Skyrim:Pawned Prawn|shop]]."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"And if he still refuses?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Then put the thumbscrews on him and hit him... hard."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, I need you to bring a note to Sibbi. I need him to do something for me."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Sibbi? He's in prison... you put him there."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I know that! I can promise you when he's ready, he'll find the cell door unlocked."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Why do you tolerate him, mother? All he contributes to this family is embarrassment and disgrace."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I tolerate your son because he'll do anything I ask, without question. I'd expect the same from my own son."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"I understand, mother. Forgive me."''<br />
<br />
Hemming is not late to use the family name to his advantage. He may engage in conversation with Bee and Barb servant [[Skyrim:Talen-Jei|Talen-Jei]]:<br />
<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"So, Talen. Have you reconsidered my offer?"''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Sorry Hemming, I've no interest in becoming your valet."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"What's the matter, I thought you people were used to indentured servitude."''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Xhuth! Black-Briar or not, say that again and so help me you're going to need more than your mother to protect you from me."''<br />
<br />
If you manage to conquer the Rift for the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]], or give it to the Legion as part of [[Skyrim:Season Unending|Season Unending]], [[Skyrim:General Tullius|General Tullis]] will say: ''"Riften will be handed over to Imperial control. Jarl Laila Law-Giver will step down, and Maven Black-Briar will become the Jarl of Riften."'' Maven will move into Mistveil Keep and bring Hemming along as housecarl, effectively leaving Ingun alone in Riftweald Manor. After the promotion, Hemming becomes considerably more talkative and will readily tell you about the Black-Briar family: ''"The Black-Briars have been instrumental in keeping Riften on the map. Before the meadery was opened almost fifty years ago, this town was nothing... a simple waypoint for those journeying on to Morrowind. Now, thanks to my mother's generosity, this city is making its mark."'' If you exit conversation he will remind you: ''"You'd do well to remember who's in charge around here."'' He will also mention Maven when talking about his new position as steward: ''"I'm not certain what business it is of yours, but I'm moth... I mean Jarl Maven's steward. I run the prisons in Riften, keep the riff-raff from robbing the good folk of this city and have drunks tossed into the lake."'' He will also comment of the defense of Riften: ''"Defense? No one would dare attack Riften. I'm not sure you realize just how well connected Jarl Maven is with the Empire. With a single snap of her fingers, we could have a legion here in a fortnight."'' Three options will then be available:<br />
<br />
'''That's impressive.''' ''"Indeed. You don't get to the position my mother's achieved by blind luck... her business sense and diplomatic skills are legendary."''<br><br />
'''Interesting.''' ''"If you say so."''<br><br />
'''I think you're exaggerating.''' ''"I don't care what you think. The Empire put Maven on the throne for a reason. That's all you need to know."''<br />
<br />
As jarl, Maven will occasionally talk to her steward about ruling Riften:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_10.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Hemming''': ''"There's still the matter of the prisoner to discuss. Now, his family is willing to contribute handsomely if we release him."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"The execution will proceed as planned."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"But, mother... this is quite a sizable contribution and the crime doesn't befit such a harsh punishment."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Are you going soft on me, Hemming? Perhaps I made the wrong choice installing you as steward."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"No, mother. The execution will proceed as planned."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Hemming, have you dispatched that letter I gave you yesterday?"''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Yes, and I sent it with our fastest courier and under the cover of night, exactly as you specified."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Good. If I need to light a few fires in order to get what we need to defend this place from the Stormcloaks, so be it."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"I'm almost certain he'll reach the Imperial City tomorrow, so we should have an answer by the end of the week."''<br />
<br />
====Maul====<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maul_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"Last thing the Black-Briars need is some stranger stickin' their nose where it doesn't belong."'']]<br />
Maul is not a Black-Briar by blood, but is the brute watching the back of Maven and her family, as well as making sure to warn strangers to stay out of the Black-Briars' business. If Maven is appointed jarl, Maul will become her new [[Skyrim:Housecarl|housecarl]] and will move into Mistveil Keep with her and Hemming, so his ties and loyalty to the Black-Briars are strong enough to make him part of the family. The first time you visit Riften, Maul will be watching the main gate for strangers and will immediately seek you out: ''"I don't know you. You in Riften lookin' for trouble?"'' If you just exit conversation he will get angry: ''"You can pretend not to hear me all you want... but you better stay out of the Black-Briars' business."'' If you continue, three options will be available to you, each followed by a warning from Maul.<br />
<br />
'''Just passing through.''' ''"Yeah? Well, I got news for you; there's nothing to see here. Last thing the Black-Briars need is some stranger stickin' their nose where it doesn't belong."''<br><br />
'''What's it to you?''' ''"Don't say something you'll regret. Last thing the Black-Briars need is some loudmouth tryin' to meddle in their affairs."''<br><br />
'''I'm not scared of you.''' ''"That's the wrong answer. Last thing the Black-Briars need around here is some troublemaker tryin' to steal a piece of the action."''<br />
<br />
He will then elaborate on the Black-Briars and himself: ''"The Black-Briars have Riften in their pocket and the Thieves Guild watchin' their back, so keep your nose out of their business. Me? I'm Maul. I watch the streets for 'em. If you need dirt on anythin', I'm your guy... but it'll cost you."'' If you try and exit conversation, Maul will get angry, saying: ''"Hey, you. Get over here, I want to talk to you."'', or ''"Yeah, walk away like a good doggie. Just stay out of the Black-Briars' business and maybe we'll give you a bone."'' and will not talk to you anymore, simply dismissing you, repeating: ''"Stay out of the Black-Briars' business and you'll live longer."'' If you choose to stay in conversation you will have to pass a [[Skyrim:Persuade|persuasion]] check. Note that you will need a [[Skyrim:Speech|Speech]] skill of at least 25 to persuade him. When successfully persuaded, Maul will be willing to share some facts about the infamous family: ''"Well, you got Maven, she pretty much runs the whole operation. She's got friends in high places if you know what I mean. She's also got ties to the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] and the Thieves Guild, so basically no one can touch her. Just remember, if she tells you to do somethin'... you damn well better do exactly what she says."'' If you ask if he knows anything about the Thieves Guild, he'll reply: ''"You kiddin'? My brother Dirge works in their hideout. I used to run with them myself, but took a job with Maven after they started hittin' a rough patch. If you want to get in on that action, find [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] in the marketplace. I'm sure he could use someone like you."''<br />
<br />
When he moves into Mistveil Keep, Maul will be a bit more talkative and you can ask him what he thinks of the [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]]: ''"Hey, if the Empire and the Stormcloaks want to kill each other over some foolish cause, I say let 'em. All I care about is two things: watchin' Maven's back and countin' the gold she pays me to do it."'' He will also share his interpretation on his new job as housecarl: ''"As long as she continues to keep me at her side, she can count on my blade to protect her. To be honest, I doubt someone would be stupid enough to make an attempt on Maven... sorry, Jarl Maven's life. But just in case, I'll be ready for them."''<br />
<br />
In Mistveil Keep, Maul will still take care of Maven's business, both official and unofficial:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Any word about our little problem in the Ratway?"''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"I've spoken to Brynjolf and he assures me it'll be taken care of."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Next time you speak to him, tell him to clean up his own messes. I'm not about to jeopardize this position for a bunch of low-life thugs."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"I'll let him know."''<br />
<br />
'''Maul''': ''"My agents are telling me that we've appropriated the caravan from [[Lore:Hammerfell|Hammerfell]]... with minimal losses."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"For what it's costing me, I should be handed the merchandise on a silver platter."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"The coin isn't just for the men, there's a lot of people that need to be compensated in order to make this happen."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"And a hefty cut for yourself too I'm sure. Just see to it the items are secured and the rest disposed of properly this time."''<br />
<br />
Maul will occasionally approach Hemming and ask him about Maven's newfound power.<br />
<br />
'''Maul''': ''"Your mother seems to have taken to her seat quite well."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Yes, she's been grooming herself for this for quite a long time."''<br><br />
'''Maul''': ''"It's surprising the Council is allowing a Nord rule Riften under the Imperial flag. That can't be their first choice."''<br><br />
'''Hemming''': ''"Let's just say my mother knows which pockets to line and keep it at that."''<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
===The Townsfolk===<br />
Maven Black-Briar is known all over Riften and the majority of the townsfolk have an opinion on the influential family, for better or worse. [[Skyrim:Sigaar|Sigaar]], the carriage driver stationed near [[Skyrim:Riften Stables|Riften Stables]], will talk about them saying: ''"You can get a room at the Bee and Barb, but mind your coin purse -- it's no secret the Thieves' Guild makes its home here. Oh, and if you meet Maven Black-Briar, stay on her good side. This is her city, and nobody else's."'' When you have gained access to Riften, you will meet [[Skyrim:Mjoll the Lioness|Mjoll the Lioness]] and her faithful follower [[Skyrim:Aerin|Aerin]] engaged in conversation about the overly corrupt city:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Mjoll_the_Lioness_06.jpg|thumb|right|''"Be careful, Mjoll. The Thieves Guild has Maven Black-Briar at her back."'']]<br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"I had another run-in with the Thieves Guild."''<br><br />
'''Aerin''': ''"Be careful, Mjoll. The Thieves Guild has [[Skyrim:Maven Black-Briar|Maven Black-Briar]] at her back. One snap of her fingers, and you could end up in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]]... or worse."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"They represent the reason I'm here. I can't just ignore them, Aerin."''<br><br />
'''Aerin''': ''"I know. I just don't want you to leave; you're the only good thing that's happened to this city in a long time."''<br />
<br />
When you talk to Mjoll, she will readily tell you about the decaying city, and the Black-Briar family: ''"Maven Black-Briar, the matriarch of the family, represents everything that's wrong with this city. She's bribed countless officials, has friends back in the Imperial City and freely associates with the Thieves Guild. I've tried everything I can to protect Riften's citizens from her family, but to no avail."'' She will also tell you about the rest of the family: ''"Well, there's Ingun Black-Briar, Maven's daughter. Strange girl. She likes to spend time down in Elgrim's Elixirs working on her alchemy. Then you have Hemming, Maven's son; spoiled brat and heir to her empire. He follows her word like a loyal dog follows its master. And finally, Sibbi; the worst of all of them. He's in Riften Jail for murder."'' The welcome committee continues with Maven's right hand, [[Skyrim:Maul|Maul]] (see [[#Maul|this section]] for details), who will warn you about meddling in the affairs of the Black-Briars. In Mistveil Keep, reigning Jarl [[Skyrim:Laila Law-Giver|Laila Law-Giver]] has seemingly been manipulated into believing that Maven has nothing to do with the Thieves Guild, saying: ''"We're all eager to see them brought to justice. Maven Black-Briar has assured me that they're being dealt with appropriately. As one of our city's most influential citizens, {{sic|she's has|description=wording}} taken it upon herself to oversee their incarceration. Sadly, they're proving elusive but I have confidence that Maven won't give up until this city has been rid of them all."'' Incidentally, her steward [[Skyrim:Anuriel|Anuriel]] thinks it is more than a question of simple manipulation, as she will tell you: ''"Lately I've had my hands full suppressing these ridiculous accusations of corruption in the keep."'' She will then elaborate: ''"There are those that believe the Jarl does nothing for this city... that it's corrupt and run by the Black-Briar family. I can assure you that this is entirely false. We are fully in control of everything."'' However, a visit from Maven proves her wrong:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_06.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Laila''': ''"Maven! Always a pleasure to receive you. What can I help you with today?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Thank you, Laila. I wanted to discuss the protection of my shipments. I'm certain you're aware of the loss I sustained a fortnight ago."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"Yes, indeed. An entire caravan shipment of your mead taken by Imperial soldiers. What of it?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Well, I'm also certain you're aware that our own city guard failed to provide the protection required to ensure safe passage of the shipment."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"Indeed. We lost three soldiers in that attack. A sad day for Riften."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Quite. To be brief, I need compensation for the lost shipment. Since Riften was responsible for it, Riften should pay for it. I have payments to make you realize. If I can't make them, I can't make Black-Briar Mead."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"We... don't have enough to..."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Laila, Riften is my home, but if my meadery can't be safe here, I'll just move it elsewhere."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"No, that won't be necessary. You'll have compensation for your loss."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Thank you, Laila."''<br />
<br />
Another conversation between Laila Law-Giver and Anuriel hints at how much power Maven has:<br />
<br />
'''Anuriel''': ''"My lady, Maven Black-Briar has sent word that she requires your seal in order to expand her shipments into Morrowind."''<br><br />
'''Laila''': ''"But of course! Tell her she'll have it. Maven is one of the few people I can trust and I'd be delighted to give her my blessing."''<br><br />
'''Anuriel''': ''"Yes, my lady. I will pass the good news on to her."''<br />
<br />
Below Mistveil Keep, in [[Skyrim:Riften Jail|Riften Jail]], where Sibbi Black-Briar is currently imprisoned to teach him some manners, sits another prisoner, [[Skyrim:Molgrom Twice-Killed|Molgrom Twice-Killed]] who suffers the same punishment as Sibbi, simply for crossing the Black-Briar family. You can ask him why he is in prison, and he'll reply, ''"Because big, bad Brynjolf doesn't like the way I play thief. Look, he says we needed coin, so I got coin. Who cares if people got hurt? Blood washes off septims. Now I'm sitting in here counting skeever droppings while he's drinking Black-Briar mead with Maven."'' Should he be asked if prison is a Guild punishment, Molgrom will tell you about Maven's relations and how she gains unofficial authority from it: ''"Hey, if you're in good with Maven you've pretty much got it made. She's got friends in high places, and I don't just mean in Skyrim. So getting the guards to throw me in here as a 'punishment' was about as easy as falling off a log."''<br />
<br />
Each and every day, Maven will pay a visit to the many merchants in the marketplace, seemingly to remind all of them who is in charge of Riften:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_08.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Madesi''': ''"Lady Maven, how may I help you?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Is it true that you refused to sell one of your... trinkets to Hemming?"''<br><br />
'''Madesi''': ''"Please, milady, it was only because he threatened me. He said he'd have me thrown in the prisons if I didn't give him what he wanted! I can't afford to just give my jewelry away!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Next time a Black-Briar asks for something, I suggest you respond quickly and affirmatively."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_07.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Haelga, I like you, so I'm only going to say this one time. If you ever try and 'practice the [[Lore:Dibella|Dibellan]] arts' with Hemming again, I'll make sure that pretty little face loses its beauty."''<br><br />
'''Haelga''': ''"He wasn't protesting, Maven."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Of course he wasn't you stupid whore; he's a man. Now I'm not going to warn you again. Is that clear?"''<br><br />
'''Haelga''': ''"Very well."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't like being made a fool of, Brand-Shei. Not one bit."''<br><br />
'''Brand-Shei''': ''"Maven, please. I didn't know it was your man. Had I known, I would have looked the other way, I swear."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Turning him in to the guards? Have you joined Mjoll as official peacekeepers of Riften? You cost me a lot of coin."''<br><br />
'''Brand-Shei''': ''"Maven, I... please, don't hurt me."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_09.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"Maven. How's the criminal underworld treating you this fine day?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You may have everyone else impressed around here, but you don't impress me. You couldn't touch me if you wanted to."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"You're a cold, unfeeling bitch."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"My dear, you have no idea who you're trifling with. Now I suggest you turn around and rattle someone else's cage before you get hurt."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"I'm watching you, Maven Black-Briar. One day, you'll slip up and your Imperial friends won't be there to catch your fall."''<br />
<br />
'''Marise''': ''"Oh! Miss Maven. What can I do for you?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Relax, Marise... I have no quarrel with you. I just wish to speak a moment."''<br><br />
'''Marise''': ''"Yes?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"You watch the market, you hear the rumors around Riften. What have you heard about these dragons?"''<br><br />
'''Marise''': ''"I heard a traveler say that Helgen was destroyed by one of those creatures. Didn't leave a soul alive they said."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Interesting. Keep your ears open for me and tell me if you hear anything more. I'll make it worth your while."''<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Grelka, how fast can you get your hands on some longbows?"''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"I don't usually deal in weapons, but I know someone who can get them for me. You mind paying a little extra to get them fast?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"I don't care what it costs. I need four longbows and four score of arrows. Just make it happen."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"I'll contact my man tonight and let you know what he says."''<br />
<br />
At the Bee and Barb, Maven will often dine with [[Skyrim:Vulwulf Snow-Shod|Vulwulf Snow-Shod]]:<br />
<br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"Maven! So good to see you again. Hoist a flagon and celebrate with me!"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Vulwulf, it's always a pleasure. When you're standing downwind of me."''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"Sorry, what was that?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Nothing Vulwulf.... cheers."''<br />
<br />
She will also try to persuade him to fund a shipment:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"I'm telling you, Vulwulf, it's the investment you've been waiting for."''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"So I pay for the weapon shipments and you oversee their distribution to the [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloaks]]?"''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Exactly. What better way to help the cause than to put weapons into the hands of young Nord warriors dying for their homeland?"''<br><br />
'''Vulwulf''': ''"[[Lore:Shor|Shor's]] Beard! You're right! I'll do it... provided you supervise the shipments personally."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Don't worry, I'll treat those shipments as if I owned them myself."''<br />
<br />
Her aggressive behavior leads to even more talk behind her back, specifically during the conversations of the citizens in everyday life.<br />
<br />
'''Drifa''': ''"Mjoll! I'm glad I found you."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"What is it, Drifa? What's the matter?"''<br><br />
'''Drifa''': ''"It's Bersi. He's getting so angry about the corruption in Riften, he said he's going to walk right up to Maven and give her a piece of his mind."''<br><br />
'''Mjoll''': ''"If I see him, I'll make sure he doesn't do anything brash. Don't worry."''<br />
<br />
'''Dinya''': ''"Good day, Grelka."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"What's so good about it? I've got deadbeats who don't pay me, the city guard looking over my shoulder and Maven Black-Briar breathing down my neck."''<br><br />
'''Dinya''': ''"You poor thing. You should come by the temple, speak to Maramal."''<br><br />
'''Grelka''': ''"Religion isn't going to save me. So unless Mara is going to start raining coin from the heavens, why don't you mind your own business."''<br />
<br />
Also, if Maven is appointed jarl, the confused court wizard [[Skyrim:Wylandriah|Wylandriah]] will face more problems than ever before:<br />
<br />
'''Maven''': ''"Why are the potions I requested not completed?"''<br><br />
'''Wylandriah''': ''"I'm sorry, milady. The components for those elixirs are quite volatile and in some cases, very dangerous to handle. I must take care."''<br><br />
'''Maven''': ''"Excuses are not acceptable in my court. When I ask for something I expect results, and I expect them immediately."''<br><br />
'''Wylandriah''': ''"Yes, milady. Sorry, {{sic|milday|milady}}. They will be completed."''<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{SkyrimBox/Start|main-color=#FBEFD5|text-color=black}}<br />
===The Black-Briar Meadery===<br />
The [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]] is the main attraction in Riften, and [[#Hemming Black-Briar|according]] to Hemming Black-Briar, the business that put Riften back on the map, as it brings income and employment to the otherwise corrupt and decaying town. [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Mead|Black-Briar Mead]], and the slightly more luxurious [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Reserve|Black-Briar Reserve]], is brewed and bottled at the meadery and distributed to thirsty customers in taverns all over Skyrim, along with the neighboring island of [[Dragonborn:Solstheim|Solstheim]]. (Skyrim citizens comments)<br />
<br />
The Black-Briar Meadery is the brainchild of Maven Black-Briar, and provides the majority of her income, so she will spare no expense and, in case she is rejected, use all the dirty tricks in the book to wipe out competition, as evident during [[#Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. Not surprisingly, the Riften citizens down an awful lot of Black-Briar Mead, although the quality of the brew is questionable at best. (Riften citizens comments)<br />
<br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"Keerava, we're running low on Black-Briar Mead."''<br><br />
'''Keerava''': ''"If only Maven would stop raising the price on it maybe I could afford to stock more cases."''<br><br />
'''Talen-Jei''': ''"We could always look for another brand."''<br><br />
'''Keerava''': ''"That isn't an option. Maven sees me serve a competitor's brand here and we may as well dig our own graves."''<br />
<br />
If you stumble upon the tragedy-ridden [[Skyrim:Asgeir Snow-Shod|Asgeir Snow-Shod]], he will tell you that even Maven had to start somewhere when she wanted the Meadery up and running. Asgeir is in mourning due to his sister Lilija's death and will, after telling you about the tragedy, finish with: ''"Anyway, I'm glad my work at the Black-Briar Meadery keeps me busy. Helps me keep my mind off of things."'' When asked if he is involved with the meadery he will tell you: ''"Yes, actually. I'm partnered with Maven Black-Briar. I put up a chunk of the gold she needed to get the place off the ground. We've been staggeringly successful so far. In fact, I'm almost surprised how quickly she's generated business for us. My name may not be on the label, but some of my blood, sweat and tears are in every drop. Uh, figuratively of course."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Ungrien_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"She's an absolute pleasure to work for!"'']]<br />
Inside the Meadery you will find an insecure [[Skyrim:Ungrien|Ungrien]] working the tasting counter, trying his very best to sell the mediocre brew with: ''"Welcome! Allow me to recommend the Black-Briar Mead... the purest brew in all of Skyrim! and We serve only the best here... Black-Briar Mead. May I get one for you?"'' When asked abot the quality of the mead, Ungrien will give you the full sales speech: ''"Lady Maven's been developing the secret recipe for Black-Briar Mead over the last several decades. She uses a very secret blend of spices, fresh honey from Goldenglow Estate and specially constructed aging casks to ensure the best flavor. Even when you get to the last sip in your flagon, it'll taste just as good as the first!"'' When you point out that his recommendation sounds rehearsed he will quickly break down: ''"Damn it! Sorry. I'm not very good at this. Look, just don't say anything to Maven, will you? I've spent weeks trying to get that right and if she sees how stupid I am, she'll get rid of me."'' When you tell him there are worse things than getting fired, he will hint: ''"Yeah... fired. Sure. That's what I meant."'' When asked about Maven, he will return to his rehearsed lines: ''"She's an absolute pleasure to work for! In fact, I almost feel guilty accepting pay from her. Why, just this last week I was commenting to my fellow meadery workers just how lucky we are to be working for such a charitable family."'' You can now either persuade, bribe, or choose to believe him; the latter will net you another obvious lie: ''"I thank my lucky stars every time I look to the night sky that Maven took me in and gave me this opportunity."'' A failed persuasion will make him say: ''"That is the truth, my friend! Maven is a saint and don't let anyone tell you otherwise."'' However, a successful persuasion or bribe will make him tell you the truth: ''"Okay, look. If I'm caught saying anything bad about the meadery or the family, I'm a dead man. I'm the fourth person to work the tasting counter in the last year. The last three are at the bottom of Lake Honrich. Just take my advice and just get out of Riften as soon as you can."''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Ungrien_03.jpg|thumb|right|''"I can't take it anymore, Tythis."'']]<br />
'''Ungrien''': ''"I can't take it anymore, Tythis. Indaryn keeps pushing me around and I'm not even doing anything wrong."''<br><br />
'''Tythis''': ''"Maybe it's time you quit then."''<br><br />
'''Ungrien''': ''"And do what? Losing a job from the Black-Briar family would make me a marked man. No one would ever take me on anywhere else."''<br><br />
'''Tythis''': ''"Don't let it get you down. Indaryn will eventually tire of picking on you and move on to someone else."''<br />
<br />
A [[Skyrim:Attention Employees!|note]] on his desk also reveals that the employees in the meadery are subject to random searches due to missing mead barrels, written by brewmaster [[Skyrim:Indaryn|Indaryn]] on behalf of Maven. During opening hours, you will find Indaryn in the meadery as well, often overlooking the brewing vats and the employees. Several notes in the tasting room hint at him being a harsh leader, although a very specific [[Skyrim:Note From Maven|note from Maven]] reveals that Maven disapproves of him acting on her behalf. When asked if he runs the Black-Briar Meadery, he will explain: ''"Maven Black-Briar wants me to keep the mead flowing and that's what I aim to do despite all these lazy good-for-nothings that work for us. Ever since I took over as the foreman the production of our mead has never been more profitable. And if the meadery is profitable, I get rich. Get the picture?"'' He will also tell you about Maven: ''"Lady Maven could buy or sell anyone in Skyrim. I wouldn't be surprised if she's the one pulling the strings around this city. She's always welcome in Mistveil Keep and between you and me, I'm pretty sure she even has some pretty influential friends within the Empire. I'd also warn you not to cross her. She employs quite a few... troubleshooters to take care of messy problems."''<br />
<br />
Troubleshooters can be found in the Meadery staff as well, as [[Skyrim:Romlyn Dreth|Romlyn Dreth]] can be found working the vats, and will openly make you an offer for some cheap mead when you get close. When asked if he works at the meadery, he will respond: ''"Sure. How do you think I get my hands on the good stuff and offer it so cheap? You think old Maven is just giving it away to anyone? Good thing she makes so much money. Makes it easier for merchandise like this to fall through the cracks."'' When asked what he is selling, he will introduce his selection with: ''"Nothing but the best. Black-Briar Mead... fresh from the vat. Best of all, you don't have to pay the ridiculous prices Maven charges. So what do you say to that?"'' This undercover business is obviously reflected in the amount of mead going out of the meadery, and you can witness a suspicious Indaryn have this conversation with Romlyn:<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Indaryn_03.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"Romlyn, I've been meaning to speak to you. I did a count at the meadery and we're four cases short... again."''<br><br />
'''Romlyn''': ''"What are you saying? You think I had something to do with that?"''<br><br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"I'm not accusing you of anything. Yet."''<br><br />
'''Romlyn''': ''"The Dreth family doesn't steal, Indaryn."''<br><br />
'''Indaryn''': ''"For your sake, I hope you're right. Because if it is you, and Maven finds out, the Dreth family is going to be one member smaller."''<br />
<br />
However, Romlyn will also ask you for a favor during the quest [[Skyrim:Under_the_Table|Under the Table]]. When asked if he is selling cheap mead, he will correct you: ''"No, no friend. You've got it all wrong. I'm not selling cheap mead. I'm selling good mead for cheap... Black-Briar Mead. I sell cases of it for half of what the inns and taverns pay through the Meadery. All I need is someone to deliver it for me. If anyone saw me leave Riften, they'd get suspicious."'' He will then tell you what needs to be done: ''"I need someone to take this small keg of Black-Briar Mead to Wilhelm at the Vilemyr Inn in Ivarstead. Drop it off and he'll trade you something for the delivery. Keep it as payment for the legwork. Oh, and if you bump into Indaryn from the meadery, keep your mouth shut. He'd rat us out in a second."'' While [[Skyrim:Wilhelm|Wilhelm]] will accept the keg and hand you some jewelry, you can also choose to tell Indaryn about Romlyn's undercover business: ''"Aye, I suspected as much but I've never been able to catch that little sneak with proof."'' When shown the keg, he will get angry: ''"That fetcher! I gave him the same keg just this morning and told him to store it in the cellars. Oh, he'll rot in prison for this one I promise you. As soon as Maven finds out, it's all over for him. Here, take this as a bit of a reward for nabbing our little thief."'' However, Maven will never hear about Romlyn, who will remain an employee at the Black-Briar Meadery indefinitely.<br />
{{SkyrimBox/End}}<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
* In the basement of the Black-Briar Manor in Riften is a locked room containing the remains of a Black Sacrament ritual, as well as a [[Skyrim:To the Brotherhood|letter from Maven Black-Briar]] complaining that her contract has not been carried out.<br />
* Unlike other jarls, Maven will not be exiled to [[Skyrim:Blue Palace|Blue Palace]] if the Stormcloaks retake Riften and Laila Law-Giver becomes the jarl again. However, after Riften is liberated, Maven can be found walking away from Solitude.{{vn|Is this true?}}<br />
* [[Skyrim:Lillith Maiden-Loom|Lillith Maiden-Loom]] claims to be friends with Maven, though Maven never mentions her.<br />
* In a cut part of the [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloak]] questline, there was going to be a siege of Riften in the event that you had lost the city in either a battle or as a result of [[Skyrim:Season_Unending|Season Unending]]. This siege would play out almost exactly the same way that the [[Skyrim:Battle_for_Whiterun_(Stormcloaks)|Battle for Whiterun]] does in the main game. Upon reaching the throne room, you would be greeted to this exchange (note that this is the same dialogue that would play between [[Skyrim:Yngvar_the_Singer|Yngvar]] and [[Skyrim:Thongvor_Silver-Blood|Jarl Thongvor Silver-Blood]] if you were taking the city of Markarth back for the Empire under the same circumstances). Please click the show button for full dialogue.<br />
{{Showhide/Start|Deleted Dialogue →}}<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Halt in the name of the Jarl!"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Somehow I doubt that will persuade them."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Stay back, lord!"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"If they want my city, they're going to have to take it from me personally."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maul''':||''"Protect the Jarl with your lives!"''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Once the ensuing battle had ended, this exchange would play (again, this is the same dialogue that would play if you were taking the city of Markarth back for the Empire under the same circumstances):<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''[[Skyrim:Laila_Law-Giver|Laila]]''':||''"Ahhh... It's good to be home."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Welcome back. I've left a few surprises for you to discover."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"How kind of you. And I've brought an army to give you a going away parade."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''[[Skyrim:Galmar_Stone-Fist|Galmar]]''':||''"If you two are finished with the touching homecoming, there's a city in chaos out there."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"Indeed. Come, there is much to be done."''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
If you were taking Riften for the Empire however, the battle would conclude with this exchange between Laila, Maven, and [[Skyrim:Legate_Rikke|Legate Rikke]]:<br />
<br />
{|class=hiddentable<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"I think I'll like living here."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"So enters Maven Black-Briar, the glint of Imperial coin in her eyes. So tell me, what's the price for a woman's integrity these days?"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"You never were able to see the forest for the trees, were you?"''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"We Nords were proud warriors once. And we still could be. Evidenced by the men and women who fought and died bravely today. You could see that if you had any faith left in that black heart of yours. But no, you're content to snatch scraps falling off the Emperor's table. Fine. Take my home. Take my city. May it burn down around you."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"A bit melodramatic, even for you Laila. Pack your things and go."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"One day when you can see past your own interests, you will come to see that we were right. And this... This is all wrong."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Rikke''':||''"If you ladies are finished bickering, there's much to be done. Jarl Black-Briar put your government together. Do it now, or there will be rioting in the streets. We must move quickly to prevent further violence."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Jarl Black-Briar. I must admit, I do like the sound of that. And don't worry about any rioting, Legate. I have it under control. We will soon begin publicly executing captured men. That should send a clear message to the people."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Laila''':||''"Yes, but not likely the one you intend."''<br />
|-<br />
|'''Maven''':||''"Oh? I don't expect anyone to miss my meaning. Come, Legate. There's much to do."''<br />
|}<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
{{Bug|Some dialogue incorrectly identifies Maven as the mother of Ingun and Sibbi, while in actuality she is their grandmother.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Talking to Maul about the Thieves Guild was supposed to give you a dialogue option with [[Skyrim:Dirge|Dirge]] later on; however, due to an oversight, Dirge will never have the dialogue option so his comment about Maul and Maven will never be heard: ''"Maul? Yeah. That jerk works for Maven Black-Briar now. Left me down here watching this garbage heap. I guess he's better at all that talking stuff anyway. I'd just mess everything up."''|USKP|1.3.1}}<br />
{{Bug|[[Skyrim:Anuriel|Anuriel]] was supposed to tell you about the Black-Briar family when asked; however, the conditions for the topic will never be met, so her praise will never be heard: ''"Maven Black-Briar is the owner of the largest and most profitable business in all Skyrim, the Black-Briar Meadery. We're pleased to have her in Riften. She brings stability, opportunities for employment and strategic value to our city."''|USKP|2.0.4}}<br />
{{Bug|Romlyn Dreth and Indaryn were supposed to have a conversation related to [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]]. However, the conditions are set wrong, so it can never be heard:|confirmed=1}}<br />
:'''Romlyn''': ''"So, what do you think of my plan. You in or out?"''<br />
:'''Indaryn''': ''"If you think {{sic|I'd would|description=wording}} make a move like that without asking Maven, you're out of your mind. Doing that would be a fatal mistake."''<br />
:'''Romlyn''': ''"Come on, think about it. She'd reward us!"''<br />
:'''Indaryn''': ''"If you want to go out to Whiterun and burn that meadery down, go right ahead. And when the guard traces it back here, and Maven is implicated, I'll be sure to tell her it was your idea."''<br />
<br />
== Last Dialogue to be Added Somewhere ==<br />
<br />
'''Delvin Mallory''': ''"Thanks to Maven Black-Briar, we still have some pull in Riften. But get arrested in Whiterun and you'll be tossed right into the prisons."''<br />
<br />
'''???''': ''"I've busted heads for Maven Black-Briar when she wants to keep her name out of it. Pays good, so why not?"''<br />
<br />
'''Keerava''': ''"Riften's biggest exports used to be fishing and honey, until the Black-Briar family moved in. Now the meadery is the biggest game in town."'' and ''"If Maven Black-Briar keeps raising prices on mead, I'll have to resort to watering it down just to make ends meet."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"The Imperials now control Riften and have placed Maven Black-Briar on the Jarl's throne."''</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard&diff=1398380UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard2014-10-19T22:32:20Z<p>Krusty: /* Votes */ vote</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Message Boards|{{PAGENAME}}]] __NEWSECTIONLINK__<div style="float:right">{{Scrolling Archive Table|class=collapsible collapsed|height=225px|width=300px<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 1|Archive 1|February 2005 – June 2006<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 2|Archive 2|June 2006 – August 2006<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 3|Archive 3|September 2006 – June 2007<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 4|Archive 4|June 2007 – July 2007<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 5|Archive 5|August 2007 – October 2007<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 6|Archive 6|October 2007 – November 2007<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 7|Archive 7|December 2007 – January 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 8|Archive 8|January 2008 – February 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 9|Archive 9|February 2008 – August 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 10|Archive 10|September 2008 – October 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 11|Archive 11|November 2008 – December 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 12|Archive 12|December 2008 – March 2009<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 13|Archive 13|April 2009 – December 2009<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 14|Archive 14|January 2010 – May 2010<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 15|Archive 15|June 2010<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 16|Archive 16|June 2010 – October 2010<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 17|Archive 17|November 2010 – January 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 18|Archive 18|February 2011 – April 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 19|Archive 19|May 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 20|Archive 20|June 2011 – August 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 21|Archive 21|September 2011 – October 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 22|Archive 22|November 2011 – December 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 23|Archive 23|December 2011 – February 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 24|Archive 24|February 2012 – March 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 25|Archive 25|April 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 26|Archive 26|May 2012 – June 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 27|Archive 27|July 2012 - August 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 28|Archive 28|August 2012 - October 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 29|Archive 29|October 2012 - December 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 30|Archive 30|January 2013 - March 2013<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 31|Archive 31|March 2013 - June 2013<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 32|Archive 32|July 2013 - November 2013<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 33|Archive 33|December 2013 - February 2014<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 34|Archive 34|March 2014 - August 2014<br />
}}{{TOCright|limit=3}}</div><br />
The '''administrator noticeboard''' is where we discuss and coordinate administrative tasks on the wiki. Although this page is intended for [[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrators]], all users are encouraged to participate in discussions.<br />
<br />
'''Before starting a discussion here,''' please review the list of other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.<br />
{{Example Table|<br />
Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[:Category:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]|A category listing of policies and guidelines, which each have individual pages; their talk pages are the best place to discuss these policies (see [[#Active Discussions|Active Discussions]] for links to active policy discussions).}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard/Vandalism|Vandalism]]| Discussions regarding vandalism and spam.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Community Portal|The main discussion forum used for community-wide discussions about UESP's operations, policies, design, and improvement.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Reference Desk|This is the best place for questions about how to play Elder Scrolls games.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Community Portal/Templates|Technical issues regarding templates and related issues can be discussed on this page.}}<br />
Specific requests can be made on these pages:<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Bot Requests|Bot Requests]]|This page can be used to request that one of the wiki's bots take on a task.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Image Requests|You can request specific images for articles here.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Creation Kit Information Requests|You can request specific Creation Kit information for articles here.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|New Page Requests|You can request a new page here if you were prevented from creating the page yourself.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Purge Requests|If you are having problems viewing an article on UESP, the page may need to be purged. New purge requests can be made here.}}<br />
In addition, past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard can be found at:<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archives#Chronological_Archives|AN Archives]]|Lists all of the past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard, including major discussions and chronological archives.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archives#Past_Administrative_Requests|Past Administrative Requests]]|A list of all previous requests for administrator and other administrative requests.}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Etiquette Policy Clarification - "Grounds for blocking" ==<br />
<br />
I've edited the [[Project:Etiquette|Etiquette]] page to clarify that "grounds for blocking" does not mean "will be blocked". This has been a frequent misunderstanding in the past, and I thought it was time it was fixed. Since it's a policy page, and a topic that's ''just'' been brought up, I felt I should mention it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 22:47, 5 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== The Silencer's Block Appeal ==<br />
<br />
Since Silencer is a big fan of following policy and procedure, I am linking his [[User Talk:The Silencer#Appeal|appeal]] on the AN. I doubt this is needed, but it is in line with policy. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 00:04, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Group Add/Remove Rights ==<br />
<br />
Administrators already have the ability to add and remove people from several groups, including all the different types of patrollers, as well as blockers. I'd like to propose that they also have the ability to add or remove Map Users, Cartographers (map editors), and Abuse Filter editors, which are relatively benign permissions. Dave would then only need to be contacted to change the various administrative and bot rights. Does anyone have any concerns with this? I've already asked Dave, and he's fine with it, but I figured I should put it to the community as well. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 17:48, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I personally think this makes sense and have no issue with it. It seems like a tad too much to have to go to Dave to add/remove, like you said, benign positions. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 17:54, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::I'm good with this. We don't have to change these user groups very often, but when we do it's usually pretty straightforward. <font color="#3D93AD">&#8672;</font>[[User:Eshe|<font color="#99876D">eshe</font>]]<sup><small>'''[[User talk:Eshe|<font color="#6FCFD1">talk</font>]]'''</small></sup> 18:10, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::It's a little soon compared to the normal approval period, but I had stuff to do on all our servers that indirectly related to this, so I made this change at the same time. Administrators should now have a bunch more groups they can add people to or remove them from. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:40, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Suspected vandals ==<br />
<br />
For some reason these IPs keep editing the skyrim credits page. [[User:189.242.227.199]] and [[User:24.127.60.91]] I'm not sure, but I feel like they might need to get banned or something. I think they might be the same person on different IPs, but I can't know for sure. Me and a few other editors have undone 24.127.60.91 multiple times. Can an admin find out for sure? [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 08:08, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I've protected the page. I'm not going to do more right now, cause it is like 3 am and I can't focus all that well at the moment. I don't want to go accidentally blocking the wrong people. Hopefully the page protection takes care of it. Someone else can block those two, but if they are changing their IP intentionally, the page protection will stop them from editing that page. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 09:15, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Thank you! I've been doing my best to hold down the fort (so to speak) till someone could do something about it. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 09:19, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Okay, both have been blocked for a week. I can't decide if it's a bot or not, so hopefully this will take care of it. Thanks, guys! <font color="#3D93AD">&#8672;</font>[[User:Eshe|<font color="#99876D">eshe</font>]]<sup><small>'''[[User talk:Eshe|<font color="#6FCFD1">talk</font>]]'''</small></sup> 12:33, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::You're welcome[[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 12:52, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Proposed Deletions ==<br />
<br />
Just a note to the other admins that I'm the one who proposed all the older [[:Category:Proposed Deletion|Proposed Deletion]]s, so I can't delete them. Can someone else give them a look when they have a moment? Thanks! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 02:53, 8 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I ''knew'' there was something I forgot to do today! I'm about to head to bed, actually, but I will look over these in the morning if someone else doesn't get them first. Thanks for the reminder! <font color="#3D93AD">&#8672;</font>[[User:Eshe|<font color="#99876D">eshe</font>]]<sup><small>'''[[User talk:Eshe|<font color="#6FCFD1">talk</font>]]'''</small></sup> 02:59, 8 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Block Messages ==<br />
<br />
Per the request of a couple of admins, I've reverted the Block messages to their previous, customizable versions. What's more, I spotted a new option with the InputBox extension, so now they'll auto-fill in the title and text for the block message. The one minor difference is that the text in the input box itself will no longer say the user/IP's name, but just the word "Blocked". I can't imagine that that ever got changed anyway. (See [[MediaWiki:Blockipsuccesstext]].)<br />
<br />
One question: the various blocked message boxes are very inconsistent with whether they use <nowiki>—~~~~ or just ~~~~</nowiki>. Do people have a preference whether the dash is automatic or not? And if we keep the dash, do you want an em dash (—), en-dash (–), or double regular dashes (--) like the signature button does? <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 02:49, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:My preference is two regular dashes, as I've been doing it for years. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 02:59, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:: Including the dashes in the template messages is a massive headache. I use an em-dash in my signature and "--—" looks terribly silly. If people want to use dashes, it's easy to change in your preferences, so I think keeping it as <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> is the most convenient for everyone. The only time I see this being a problem is for people who make use of the signature button, which adds the "--". —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 15:23, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::: I have the same issue as Legoless, but figured it wasn't a big deal now that we can customize the message again. Anybody else wanna weigh in? <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:35, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Same as Legoless as well. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 20:26, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Forgot about this till yesterday. Em dashes have been removed now. I noticed afterwards that that's also consistent with every other message at [[Project:Messages|Messages]]. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 05:00, 4 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Legoless de-admin request ==<br />
<br />
{{Userlinks|Legoless}}<br />
<br />
In my humble opinion, Legoless is unfit to be an administrator. He has consistently showed an out-of-touchness with the workings of the wiki, that ill-becomes an administrator, but much more serious than that, he deliberately lied to sway peoples opinions in the recent events around my warning and block. <br />
<br />
Firstly, this comment saying "[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1376831 Multiple admins have contacted you privately to listen to your side of the story.]" is the main focus of the complaint. It implies that I had an opportunity to defend myself and refused, when I was given no such opportunity because no admins contacted me at all. It also goes against the tone of the emails I received after the block (which was some time after this post) which implies that the admins were waiting for me to contact them with my defense (a frankly ridiculous notion unless I am to guess which admins were involved). <br />
<br />
Secondly, this comment quoting the wikipedia policy page with "[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1376874 Lesser personal attacks often result in a warning]" is a deliberate misquotation of the policy page, avoiding whole tracts of policy on how to deal with a personal attack and taking the summation at the end of the page as the basis of the warning, despite the policy's underlying concept of seeking a non-administrative solution (especially in first-time cases), and that we have our own policy on attacks which is incompatible anyway. My point here is twofold; one, if you do not understand a policy do not accuse someone of breaking it, and two, do not misquote policies to enforce an action. Both of these actions are unacceptable from anyone, much less an administrator who should know the rules before supporting administrative action. Also within that post is the comment "Unless you are arguing for a block instead..." which is quite a provocative statement, as following my reply that had policy been implemented properly I would have been, I did get a block (which was over the top in length, and wasn't a replacement for the warning). <br />
<br />
Lastly in connection to the warning, this post comments that "[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1369048 This isn't the first time The Silencer has been abrasive towards other editors]". While that may certainly be the opinion of some people, its the first I've heard of it, having never been approached in public or private about being abrasive on the wiki. So in terms of the warning, this is the first offence, and an administrator should know that before saying otherwise. Another comment there about "common etiquette should be of paramount importance" can be left for another post about the value of factual information (the content if my original post for which I was warned).<br />
<br />
Moving on to some examples that show a lack of wiki-knowledge. [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_Silencer&diff=1368388&oldid=1368386 This one] is (assuming good faith) a lack of knowledge that plural headers are a standard across the wiki, no namespace or section is exempt. [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Isolated_House&diff=prev&oldid=1376441 Icons] have been standard for around 18 months at this point, using this template (which has no other use but for the way it was used). [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Telrav&diff=1360253&oldid=1360249 Copyright] is a serious issue, and suggesting a wiki that takes images from the web as the source of an image is as bad as suggesting google search is a source. These editing examples are of particular importance in establishing that Legoless had no place being involved in the administrative action taken against me as an [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Administrators#Involved_admins|involved admin]], as on all three occasions it fell to me to explain how an admin was wrong and chastise him for suggesting copyright was a trivial issue. Without a reply on any of the three occasions I have to assume he had no issue for being shown to be wrong, but with these three edits coming a month before the warning, and an insinuation of being passive-aggressive in past posts, it certainly leaves space for the accusation of being biased. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:03, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': This feels completely like a [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Witchhunt|witchhunt]] and nothing else. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 23:15, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
**'''Comment''': I prefer to think of it as holding him responsible for his actions. Have you nothing to say in regard the lies he told or do you find that acceptable? [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:20, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': The main issue here that involves a detriment to the wiki is the bottom three. Any action for the others would be punitive, not protective. Those three, while valid concerns, are not grounds for removal of rights. I'll wait to support or oppose, though, until Legoless responds. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 23:23, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment:''' {{ec|3}} To offhandedly address address a couple of these:<br />
:*Both AKB and RobinHood implied that they had contacted you following the warning you received. If AKB did not, in fact, contact you via email, then I admit I was wrong on that point. Claiming that I maliciously and purposefully lied about it is unfounded.<br />
:*I was semi-active on the wiki since December 2012 due to various personal constraints, so I was not aware of the icon issue. If it was truly such a long-standing policy, it's curious that it was only being implemented on some pages in the last month, and not even in a standardised fashion (see [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion%3AMelus_Petilius%27_House&diff=1376493&oldid=1376447 this]).<br />
:*Aside from contributing to the discussions following your warning and removing your patroller rights per your own request, I did not take any administrative action towards you. A clear consensus was reached among the admins, and it would be poor form for me not to support it due to my own "bias" when it comes to your sour attitude.<br />
:*'''Edit''': As for the copyright issue, I chose not to respond due to your overly domineering and aggressive response, not because I believed myself to be in the wrong. As it turned out, the user image in question was simply removed, but I stand by my point that trying to apply copyright law to an image macro is ridiculous.<br />
<br />
:Frankly I find this de-admin request to be a petty attempt at payback for the administrative action towards The Silencer in the past month. However, I have no problem leaving it stand, as I have full faith in the community. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:25, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:*'''Comment''': To clarify in my regard, I said I have talked to the Silencer privately in the past, it was confusingly worded so it is completely understandable that Lego thought I was currently speaking to him about the conflict at the time. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 23:27, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Your 'apology' is not accepted. To base such a statement that had huge implications on nothing more than guesswork is just as bad as outright lying, because you did not know the situation and should not have commented on it. You commenting on the discussion as an admin is taking part in it by association, your words as an administrator carry weight in a discussion requesting administrative action. My request is based your lying and deliberately misquoting policy. It is not acceptable to make statements as an administrator in situations you do not understand, using policy you don't understand, and as such you should not be allowed to do so again (until you do understand your position, at which point you can reapply for admin). AKB, you had not commented on the topic before Legoless made that statement. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:40, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: {{Ec}} AKB's comment was made in private. Please don't add hypocrisy by misquoting me and continuing to accuse me of lying, it's not constructive. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:45, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Please address the second lie and misquoted policy accusations before derailing this post any further. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:48, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': In my honest opinion I feel like this is just a way for Silencer to get payback. With all the issues with Silencer the last few weeks it brings into question the real motive for this request. While some of those are legitimate claims, like Jeancey said they are not grounds for removing admin rights. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 23:42, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': Contrary to some peoples opinions my aim was not revenge but exposure. True the three links are involved with the 'discussion' about my warning, but had he made these anywhere else I would still have called him out on it. I cannot force the admins to take any action, but now they cannot deny the claims were brought to their attention. As seems to be the way of things, it is who made the post that is the main focus here (seriously, the first response), ignoring the serious claims in favour of counter-claiming some sort of 'revenge' and attempting to stop any sort of reasoned debate. I cannot force any sort of punishment on Legoless, that is up to the community, who should by now know what kind of person they are supporting. If you decide to leave him as an administrator, you can't complain if he does it again (which he's already done by again disparaging the seriousness of copyright). Simply put, if he hadn't lied, what would I have to complain about? [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 01:37, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': I don't see any malicious intent, lack of knowledge, or really much of anything. I see several ''incredibly'' minor mistakes, if that. The only reason why I would consider supporting this would be an actual problem that is legitimately causing harm to the site. I just cannot believe these issues could cause major harm, if any, to this site. I know you're going to disagree, but I think all of the issues brought up are, like was previously said, nothing but a witchhunt. Silencer, I stayed out of all of the discussions over the last few weeks. I thought then, and still think now, that things did not have to get as far as they did. The fact that they're getting to this level is just utterly unnecessary. To wrap things up, '''we do not need this kind of drama here'''. Period. I know it's happening/has happened on another similar site and I do not want it here. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 02:00, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': Many of the points above are based on misunderstandings or minor mistakes. These things happen from time to time and there's really no point to belabouring them. To my mind, there is nothing in this request that warrants de-adminship. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 02:04, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': "This is not a productive area of discussion." - Henry Kissinger's head, ''Futurama''. Silencer, I think how you were treated was patently ridiculous. I think the community tends to overreact sometimes in matters of politeness. It's the internet, people; grow a thick skin or go offline. You're a great editor. But so is Legoless. So let's put all this in our rearview mirror and get back to what matters. [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:small"><font color="Green">Insignificant Revisions</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 02:40, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': Lorenut took the words right out of my mouth. The only person twisting words and lying here is YOU, Silencer. If your first action after your ban (a ban that YOU pushed for when we were content to give you a warning-see my comments on the appeal on your talk page) is to try and stir up drama for no reason, you're not in the right spot. Go to Encyclopedia Dramatica if you want to stir up drama, not here. [[User:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:red; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Zul se onikaan</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:blue; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Laan tinvaak</span>]]</sup> 12:26, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': I wasn't going to comment at all, in the hope that this would fizzle out and we could, as ME puts it, get back to what matters. And I agree completely with everything else ME says above. However, I would like to suggest that people stop accusing others of lying. Lying is ''deliberately'' telling falsehoods. I see no lies whatsoever on the part of Silencer, just statements which others might disagree with, coupled with a bunch of inflammatory comments from all sides. I also see no deliberate lies on the part of Legoless, just a misunderstanding (regarding contact by admins) and a misinterpretation (the quote from Wikipedia, which is accurately quoted, but perhaps taken out of context). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:21, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:*'''Comment''': Bullying other editors and slinging accusations against admins is ''never'' appropriate or justified, and while "growing thick skin" is undoubtedly good advice both for the internet and in meatspace, it fails to hold water as a defense of the aforementioned behavior. I do agree that we should all just move on, and indeed most of us have been willing to do so for the last month. There's no point drudging up more pointless squabbles over this one issue. [[User:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:red; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Zul se onikaan</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:blue; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Laan tinvaak</span>]]</sup> 15:01, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::*'''Comment''': "Slinging accusations" is entirely justified with proof, they are not immune to scrutiny or from answering for their actions. Again, if there were no lies there would be no justification for calling for any action to be taken. You yourself are hardly immune to scrutiny, having twisted my words on more than one occasion (proof can be provided for anyone interested). I see only two people who have commented on the lies and misquoting so far, with far more scrutiny being placed on the editing issues (which are not enough on their own which is why they are examples). When you suspect an admin of telling lies against you, then you'll know how easily you can 'move on', until then you are simply preventing an admins actions being looked at for no other reason than you don't want to bother with it. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 17:47, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::'''Comment''': Silencer the problem is that none of the legitimate evidence is enough to remove an administrators rights. As for your first couple pieces of evidence. AKB said above " I said I have talked to the Silencer privately in the past, it was confusingly worded so it is completely understandable that Lego thought I was currently speaking to him about the conflict at the time" so I think that removes your first piece of evidence. Now onto the "misquotation" I don't feel like it's a misquotation. I looked up the policy and I feel it was used under correct circumstances. Let's move on, yes this may be the first time you've been talked with about the way you speak to people, but I have noticed a lot of times where you have been rude to other editors. Once again with this request being so close to your blocking it calls into question your true motive. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 22:15, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''CLOSED. Consensus: OPPOSE.''' --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:42, 20 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Vandal ==<br />
<br />
[[Special:Contributions/68.83.173.193]]<br />
<br />
Will someone deal with this vandal already. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:50, 24 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
: Done. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:09, 25 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Block needed ==<br />
<br />
[[Special:Contributions/5.248.81.170]] (spambot) --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 08:53, 26 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:... and now it has moved on to [[Special:Contributions/46.118.113.51]] --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 09:23, 26 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::I've done temporary blocks for both IP addresses, it's been a while since I've used my blocking privileges but there didn't seem to be any others on to take care of it so hopefully I didn't mess it up. When an admin comes online, they can deal with it further as needed. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 13:34, 26 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Re-blocked for 1 year. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 14:58, 26 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::Thanks RH! And thanks also for the added note to the Block Notifications page... it was a nice reminder of what I'd forgotten to do! ;) — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 15:54, 26 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::LOL...I figured you'd forgotten, but then I thought: Why bother? The point is for admins to know about temporary blocks and this does just as well as adding it to the table. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:25, 26 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}} Xanax should probably go in the filters (its already on the spam blacklist). [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 02:16, 27 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I meant to look at that. Thanks for the reminder! I'm amazed we didn't have that there already. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 03:34, 27 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== UESPWiki:General_Disclaimer question ==<br />
<br />
I got bored and was reading the legalese -- yes, I read the legalese for fun sometimes -- on my MacBook while Oblivion downloaded from Steam on another system and this particular line caught my eye and I have a question about it that strikes me as rather important and ought to be addressed, should this in fact be an issue and not a misinterpretation on my part. This is definitely something that Daveh or a legalese expert should give input on (with any edit ultimately being made ideally by Daveh himself, because it's his site at the end of the day.<br />
<br />
First paragraph, second sentence... ''"The UESP is an entirely non-profit site and currently maintains no monetary value."''<br />
<br />
I am not a legalese expert, but as it stands, Dave Humphrey is technically [[UESPWiki:News/UESP_Starts_the_New_Year_With_its_First_Employee|an employee of UESP]], which implies that he's drawing his salary, either in part or in whole, from the operation of the UESP domain. What does the term "non-profit" mean in terms of websites, how does this term relate to the operation of the site in terms of Daveh's "employment", and what amendments, if any, should be made to the disclaimer page and any pages where this is information is applicable? -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 01:31, 4 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:Non-profits often (most if not all of the large ones) employ their administrators and some of the staff. A non-profit simply means that the organization uses any surplus revenue to further its goals rather than paying out to investors or to the owner's pockets. Dave does this by using any excess to buy additional server space or bandwidth and other things like that. TLDR; non-profit doesn't mean you can't pay a salaried employee. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 01:37, 4 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Yes, the difference between a nonprofit and a for profit organization is that all profit goes towards the service, ultimately. It we started selling stock and handing out dividends, then we'd have to amend that, but as it is, I believe we fully meet the criteria still. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 03:41, 4 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Request for user account name change ==<br />
<br />
I've had my user name, Voraxith, for over two years now, and if it's not too much trouble, I would like to request that it be changed to Grimnir, as that is the name of my main character in Skyrim, and I've developed a bit of a presence on Facebook using that name. I checked the list of registered user names, and I did not find the name Grimnir there. Thank you for your time and consideration. [[User:Voraxith|Voraxith]] ([[User talk:Voraxith|talk]]) 23:17, 8 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:There is a user [[User:GrimNir|GrimNir]], but they haven't post``ed anything since 2007. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:25, 8 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Ah. Well then to avoid confusion and possible conflict should that user ever return to the site, might I request Grimnir OneEye then, as that is my Xbox Live account name. [[User:Voraxith|Voraxith]] ([[User talk:Voraxith|talk]]) 23:29, 8 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Done! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:32, 9 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Thank you! [[User:Grimnir OneEye|Grimnir OneEye]] ([[User talk:Grimnir OneEye|talk]]) 00:58, 9 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Proposed Deletion (Images) ==<br />
<br />
We've had {{Deleted|:Category:Proposed Deletion (Images)|Proposed Deletion (Images)}} as a separate category from [[:Category:Proposed Deletion|Proposed Deletion]] for years now. Personally, I don't find it particularly helpful. Yes, you can see the pretty little thumbnails, but you lose the ability to see at a glance when it was deleted. The latter is much more useful to me in a deletion category than the former. How do other admins feel? Would anybody object if I removed that coding from {{tl|Proposeddeletion}} and just let images sort with everything else, like we do for speedy deletions? <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:33, 11 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:If there are no objections before then, I'll implement this change tomorrow. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:12, 22 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Block Needed (2)==<br />
<br />
[[Special:Contributions/46.118.121.6|This ip]] has been spamming talk pages all morning. Block please. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 13:35, 23 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:Temp. blocked for now, until an admin gets on to deal with it. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 13:55, 23 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Also, someone should take a look at [[User:Hunny]]. It doesn't appear to be a spambot, but the only contribution made was creating their userpage that looked rather spammy. I didn't really know what to do, so I just blanked the page. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 15:18, 23 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::<s>[http://uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.118.159.145 This IP] and [http://uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.119.117.255 this IP] both need blocks</s> (AKB already got them). Seeing as they are very near the same IP blocked above earlier today, I think a range block is needed. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 02:41, 24 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Block Needed (3) ==<br />
[http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.153.11.98 this ip] needs blocking as well [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 15:32, 23 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I issued a warning for this, as I'm on the fence about whether it's truly spam or just nonsense. The pattern has continued after the warning, so could we please get a block in place? The ip is reverting my reverts as well. [[User:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:red; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Zul se onikaan</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:blue; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Laan tinvaak</span>]]</sup> 15:57, 23 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Nonsense Bot ==<br />
<br />
Currently we seem to be getting a bit of traffic from a Ukranian nonsense bot. Most of the current addresses reside within the 46.118.0.0/16 and 46.119.0.0/16 range, so a block could currently be performed there if we get much more noise from those addresses, although I would recommend against doing so due to the combined size of the ranges. That range block would block over 100k addresses, with the block range being the built in maximum that Mediawiki will allow you to block. Furthermore, a few of the other addresses come from outside of those ranges, so it won't even necessarily be effective. Further thoughts are welcome, but waiting it out may be the best option right now. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 20:00, 24 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I've added "valium" and "adderall" to the abuse filter words list, which should take care of most of them. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:54, 24 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
::I'm quite regularly online within a timeframe that's sparsely populated - morning until noon CET. Some of the recent bot attacks happened during that time, and vandalism will likely keep happening around the clock, so if no one minds, I'd like to apply for blockuser rights. --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 08:39, 25 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::I've granted you the requested rights. As a reminder to all patrollers, a simple request for blocker rights is required for you to get them. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 11:36, 25 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::A couple of people suggested on my talk page that I should request for blocker rights, so I guess this is me requesting blocker rights. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 11:59, 25 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Alright, I've given you the rights as well. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 13:01, 25 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== My VIUD Project ==<br />
<br />
If you were wondering where I've disappeared to lately, I've been knee deep in my VIUD project (Virtually Indestructible USB Drive, http://www.viud.net) of trying to create the world's toughest USB drive. After 2 years of design and testing I think I'm finally on track to get a KickStarter campaign going for it this month. Now, I'd love to use the UESP to my advantage in promoting the VIUD a bit, specifically in terms of a main page news article (now and when the KS is opened) as well as the site's social media but since it is not ES related I wanted to run it by the rest of the site admins/editors for feedback. <br />
<br />
Note that I'm perfectly fine if the consensus is "no"...I'm totally not going to accidentally reset anyone's password...;) <br />
<br />
Forgot to mention that if you'd like to see a few videos of me check out the [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWzBzOL_Gh_jS_euco3XCBw VIUD's YouTube channel]. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] <sup>[[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]]</sup> 21:40, 2 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I can see ways to wrangle a mention of it on the social media, but not on the main wiki. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 21:45, 2 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I'd have no problem with it being on your user page, since almost anything is fair game there, but otherwise, I'd say it should stay off the wiki, since it's not significantly game-related. I suppose having it randomly appear as an ad like any other could work, but you wouldn't want to cut into the ad revenue significantly, I assume, so there's that to think about as well. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 22:24, 2 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::I have to agree with Robin on this one. I think it would be better suited on your user page since it is pretty much for anything about you. Plus like you said Daveh it's not ES related and probably shouldn't be on any page outside of your user page. I don't know how you could use UESP's twitter (or any other social site we have), but if you can find a way then go for it. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 23:34, 2 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Unretired long enough to challenge Dave on the password resets - and because your VIUD FB posts are cool ;) In all seriousness, it's not strictly TES-related, so it would be out of place to advertise on-site, but at the end of the day, you own the website, you pay the bills, and it's your choice to share the project with your built-in advertising base if you chose to do so. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 23:44, 2 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
{{od}}I'd say I'm fine with this, since no one would likely have questioned it if you didn't ask. It wouldn't be the first off-subject news piece we'd have hosted either ([[UESPWiki:News/ZeniMax Media Acquires id Software|Zenimax acquiring id]], a [[UESPWiki:News/New Bethesda Podcast|new Beth podcast]], [[UESPWiki:News/Skyrim Voice Actors Gain Oscar Nominations|Oscar nominations for voice actors that were used for the game even though the nomination wasn't for their work on the game]], [[UESPWiki:News/Happy_Birthday_Bethesda|an announcement of Bethesda's anniversary]]). Plus, I'd like to have a news piece this year that was not related to ESO (something that has yet to happen!). --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 00:05, 3 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I don't see any harm with mentioning it on the main page, it's not going to be in anyone's face if they aren't interested. We don't have a huge number of news items anyway, so it's not bumping anything important. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 01:21, 3 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::It may not be TES-related, but it's related to the owner of the site. If written the right way, it could make sense to be on the main page ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 10:59, 3 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::No worries...thanks for the feedback. I won't write anything myself then other than on my user page. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] <sup>[[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]]</sup> 15:33, 3 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Warning / blocking ==<br />
<br />
A little while ago, [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:134.249.54.16&oldid=1395276 I warned an IP] after it had added spam to a page. When Dwarfmp blocked the IP, he quite appropriately remarked [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:134.249.54.16&curid=190691&diff=1395278&oldid=1395277 that bots don't get warnings]. After a [[User_talk:Dwarfmp#Warning_.2F_blocking|short exchange on his talk page]], he recommended to bring it up on the AN, which I'm doing here. I know that it is common practice not to warn spammers/bots before a block. The reason why I warned the IP after adding the speedy deletion template to the vandalized page was that I wanted to put myself in a position that allowed me to temporarily block the IP in case of continued spamming. I wanted to prevent excessive cluttering of the RC like in recent cases of bot attacks, and I was ready to put a temporary block on the IP right after its second spam edit - that's why I warned the IP. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I want to block a user or an IP without exceeding my authorities as a blocker, a warning has to be given before. The [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|Blocking Policy]] states that ''"'''administrators''' have the authority to bypass one or more steps at their discretion"''. If blockers should also be allowed to bypass step 1 (warn) of the normal procedure, I think the policy needs to be reworded accordingly. --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 05:28, 5 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I'd support rewording the policy to allow Blockers to block when it's reasonable to assume that it's a bot. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 08:30, 5 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Can I also request a change to the blocking reasons? The Spamming blocking reason specifically states spamming links to external sites, but 90% of the spam we get is simply text and not actual links (since those are blocked by the filter). Can we removing the part about links to external sites and just say that all spam is the reason for blocking? That covers any links that get through, and applies to the most common situations. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:16, 5 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::As I've said on my page, spammers usually don't go on a spam spree, unless that is from different IPs. Though I would agree that in certain situations, blockers too should be able to just use their head and block straight away when necessary. As to Jeancey's concern, it says "link or other types", which covers both, I don't really feel like that's a problem. I actually wanted to have a different message for IPs than accounts, as most spam is actually done by IPs these days, and having to change the message manually is a drag ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 19:25, 5 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::Actually, the block message says link or other types, the edit summary on the block itself simply says external links. That's what I am proposing the change for. The talk page message is fine. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:27, 5 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::I just changed the dropdown. I've been thinking of that for a while, myself, but never got around to it (mostly because they give these pages the most arcane names which I can never remember and have to Google for). <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:29, 5 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::''"In extreme cases Blockers may also use their discretion to bypass a warning and immediately block an editor/IP. Misuse of this exception may result in removal of the Blockers rights and a warning."'' Add that to the policy under the admin discretion. I never took notice of such restrictions when it came to spammers, but still waited for at least 3 edits to be made (but not made at the same time). Always be prepared to explain your actions though if you block. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 11:06, 6 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
{{od}} Okay, since there are no objections to the change, I've gone ahead and made it, per Silencer's suggested wording. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:19, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Whoops, that went faster than I expected. I thought that there'd be a few more comments after the little detour about the wording of the block message. I don’t want to object to the change to the blocking policy, but I’m afraid it might not be helpful in all scenarios. It’s fine in situations like the ones above ([[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard#Block_needed|Block needed]], [[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard#Block_Needed_.282.29|Block needed (2)]], [[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard#Block_Needed_.283.29|Block needed (3)]]): When blockers log on and find the RC clogged by an IP’s spam edits, with no admin around, they are faced with an extreme situation and can now immediately put a temp block on the IP. However, there’s the other scenario: A blocker logs on, and after a while there’s an IP’s first spam edit. There’s no way to tell when an admin will be around again. When does the situation become “extreme”? After the third spam edit by that IP, or the tenth? According to the old and the new version of the policy, I can warn the IP after the first spam edit, which allows me to block it after its second spam edit. That’s what I’d still rather do instead of sitting there and wait for the situation to become extreme. The sequence ''Spam 1 – Warning – Spam 2 – Temp Block'' is a clear and simple pattern, whereas “extreme situation” is an ambiguous definition.<br />
<br />
:If a warning for spammers should be avoided, I'd suggest to give blockusers the authority to put a temp block on them after their second spam edit. In many cases, an IP or a user that spams a second time will also continue spamming for a while. Please don't get me wrong: I am not trigger happy, and I am not in search for more power. I simply want blockers to be able to support admins and patrollers by dealing with spam in a time-saving, efficient and effective way, and being backed by an unambiguous policy. --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 06:49, 16 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::The wording allows for discretion, an arbitrary number doesn't work in this scenario. If someone thinks you acted inappropriately they'll let you know and ask you to explain your decision. For an example I would typically have only blocked after a third spam edit spaced far enough apart to know they were separate 'attempts' by the bot, as some bots have a modus operandi of 3 edits within 10 minutes (as our first abuse filter was made to thwart). [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 17:54, 16 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Account Creation Broken ==<br />
<br />
A user came into chat to ask about an issue with account creation, and after checking on a few possible issues, and then consulting the account creation log, it appears that account creation is not possible as the Asirra extension does not seem to be working. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 23:38, 12 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Robin mentioned that on Jeancey's talk page, I thought he would have switched it back to the default captcha so people can still work on the site. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:59, 12 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I sent a message to Dave to see if he had a preference for what to do, but haven't heard back from him. It's Thanksgiving weekend here, so he may be away. In the absence of input, I'll go ahead and reset to the older Captcha for the time being. Sorry about not dealing with it before, but I was too out of it last night to deal with it and I wasn't even sure we still had the necessary info for the older Captcha in any event. I just found a copy of the old info, though, so I'll get to work on resetting it now. Be prepared for the possibility of more user creations and maybe a small uptick in spam, though I expect most of it will be caught by the abuse filter. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 03:26, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Okay, it's done. Our mobile servers were actually still using the older method and had captchas for external links turned off (relying on the abuse filter to pick it up), so I made everything the same, following that standard. Let me know if there are any problems. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 03:50, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::That was a total bust. In the 14 hours since I made the change, our abuse filter took 1200 hits, where before, it averaged a few a day. (Why, oh why, did MS shut down Asirra?!?) I've switched to another Captcha method, QuestyCaptcha, which asks the user a randomized question. We'll see how that goes. Right now, I'm using a verbatim copy from a blog post, which has probably been cracked, but variations on that method can be used to customize it to our site and hopefully significantly reduce the spam once again. For now, I want to see how the existing one does, then, if necessary, I'll get to work on modifying it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:07, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::A customized version of it has been running for 1.5 hours with no hits to our abuse log whatsoever, so I'm calling it good enough for the time being. If, at some point, a bot figures out how to solve the question reliably, or if people just find the current question style too confusing, we can always change it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:08, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::Sounds interesting if you are suggesting it can be customised to have questions relevant to the site (ie Elder Scrolls based questions). [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 20:52, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Yes, it could be, though it's recommended that we stick with answers that change, even with what's nominally the same question. Static questions/answers are easily remembered by bots, whereas something they have to create a special program for will generally be deemed "not worth it" except for insanely large sites like Wikipedia. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:17, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Request for Adminship: Jeancey ==<br />
<br />
:''Our Request for Adminship (RfA) process is based on [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship|Wikipedia]]'s policy. An editor, when nominated, accepts and answers questions, which can be asked by any registered editor. Votes and comments can also be left by any registered editor. [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] makes the call, based upon the community's consensus, after about a week.<br />
<br />
{{userlinks|Jeancey}}<br />
<br />
When ESO first came out, we appointed three patrollers as temporary administrators. Two of them have since become inactive, but Jeancey has stuck around and continued working tirelessly on the site. During the time he has been a temporary administrator, I think he's shown that he can use the tools appropriately and responsibly. He has good interpersonal skills and is always willing to discuss edits or give opinions on site policy. I believe he'll make an excellent full-time administrator.<br />
:I accept this nomination for Administrator :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 22:02, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
====Questions====<br />
'''Q1''': What do you hope to accomplish as an administrator?<br />
:As administrator, I hope to continue what I have done as temporary administrator. Helping to maintain the consistency and quality of the site, especially in the namespaces that I have been most active in (Morrowind, ESO, and Lore). Given that Legoless is the only active administrator who plays ESO, and given the sheer volume of information still left to be added in that namespace, I believe that having another administrator who plays ESO would be beneficial. <br />
<br />
'''Q2''': What do you see as the UESP's main challenges in the near future?<br />
:I think that one of the main challenges for UESP in the near future is keeping the Online namespace accurate and up to date with the constant additions and tweaks that are present in an online game. That, coupled with the inability to save and redo specific quests make the middle areas of the game especially difficult to complete accurately. Also, when another single player game is released, we will essentially have two games that we have to complete namespaces for, as the Online namespace will (hopefully, if the game is doing well) be an ongoing work in progress.<br />
<br />
'''Q3''': How do you interpret the balance between enforcing policies and being innovative when policies prove to be problematic?<br />
:I believe that policies should be a guide to how to deal with issues, not always a 100% hard and fast rule. Just today, we have had a situation where our policy dictates that we shouldn't put a voice actor as voicing the character without official proof, but we have an anonymous user who says that he emailed the actor and they confirmed that they voiced the character. Since the actor voiced the same character type in Oblivion (Dremoras), and since they sound the exact same in Skyrim, it is likely that they did in fact voice them. I had proposed that we have a second user also email the actor to provide a second confirmation of that actor's role in Skyrim. This, while not precisely following the policy, provides for the information to be added with a reasonable amount of proof to its veracity. I think that this represents a good balance between enforcing the letter of the policy and following the intention of the policy.<br />
<br />
'''Q4''': What action will you take if you see another administrator perform an action that you completely disagree with? Do you believe it is ever necessary or permissible to revert the actions of another administrator?<br />
:I believe, as I have done in the past, that a single revert of anyone is acceptable, given what you believe is a clear reason for doing so is present. For instance, if it breaks the page or if the information added is clearly incorrect, and that you explain those reasons in the edit summary. If you are mistaken in this, I believe it is acceptable for the person reverted to revert you and then open a discussion either on the talk page of the page in question or on my own talk page detailing why they were correct in the first place. If the issue is much more complicated or contentious, I believe that you should always open a talk page discussion first before reverting the person. The reversion should only occur if there is a clear and unambiguous reason, not simply if you believe they are incorrect. One must have proof, rather than simply an opinion, for the reversion to occur. Hopefully that doesn't confuse anyone, or make anyone think I revert people out of hand. I also think that if I have had issue with a particular administrator (or any user really) in the recent past, the talk page discussion should happen, and I wouldn't revert them at all, as that would just create an additional problem unrelated to the edit in question.<br />
<br />
:Feel free to ask any additional or clarifying questions :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 22:02, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
<br />
===Votes===<br />
* '''Support''': As nominator. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:02, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
* '''Support''': Since I've joined the wiki in every interaction i've had with Jeancey he has been nothing but friendly to me. He has been a great contributor to the site and i think he would be a great addition to the admin ranks. Also while he was a temporary admin he showed no abuse of power and followed every guideline. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 21:11, 13 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': I agree with Lorenut; Jeancey has always been super friendly to me; in addition, he is knowledgeable and fair about anything and everything I can think of. I can't think of a single incident that detracts from Jeancey's stellar record here at UESP as long as I have been here. --[[User:Likelolwhat|<font color="SlateBlue">likelolwhat</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Likelolwhat|''<font color="plum">talk</font> <font color="SlateBlue">lulzy</font> <font color="plum">to me</font>'']]</sup> 01:59, 14 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Jeancey has been an excellent contributor since he has joined the site. He has made an astonishing number of contributions once he started editing, including creating the MWOP which has helped to improve an entire namespace and provide other editors with plenty of ways to contribute. He has also played a key role in getting the ESO pages to our high standards. Perhaps more importantly than all of this though, Jeancey is an excellent role model for how to interact with other contributors. All my interactions with him have been very pleasant, and his enthusiasm and dedication in working on the wiki will continue to greatly benefit the site down the road. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 04:10, 14 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Jeancey has pretty much been performing admin-like duties for a while now, and is very familiar with the site. He's been tremendously helpful with adding or tweaking ESO content, which itself is no easy task. I can't think of any reason not to support. His sheer dedication to the upkeep of the wiki is impressive - its not often someone at Jeancey's level of activity is around to help out. Plus, having another active admin would be helpful. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 11:54, 14 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Jeancey is an absolute machine when it comes to contributions; in fact, he's above several bots in terms of edit count. And in all those edits I have personally have seen virtually nothing to find fault with, in terms of quality, scope, and friendliness. We did well to have him as an admin during ESO's launch, and I think it would only benefit the site to make it permanent. -- [[User:Hargrimm|Hargrimm]]<sup>[[User talk:Hargrimm|(T)]]</sup> 14:06, 14 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Jeancey is very dedicated to the site, and like others have said, I have had only positive interactions with him. He's done a massive amount of work on the wiki and continues to do so, and he's already proven, with the temporary admin powers, that he can handle it. It would be a good thing for the site to have him as an admin. - [[User:Alarra|Alarra]] ([[User_talk:Alarra|talk]]) 06:03, 15 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': Friendliness: {{Yes}} Expertise: {{Yes}} Enthusiasm: {{Yes}} Diligence: {{Yes}} Accuracy: {{Yes}} --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 07:13, 16 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': I fully support Jeancey finally becoming a proper admin. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 07:21, 16 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': I can't think of anything more to say that hasn't already been said. After a great run of being a temp-admin for ESO's release, I think Jeancey would make a fine permanent admin. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 08:08, 16 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': For all of the reasons listed above. Jeancey has basically been an admin without the actual powers for most of the time I've been here. I haven't the slightest clue why I'd not support this. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 12:28, 16 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': I don't think I can add anything, really ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 07:46, 17 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Oppose''': As someone with vast experience of both good and bad admins, I fear that recent events have led me to the conclusion that Jeancey will not be a good admin in the long run. His self-limiting to mostly Online namespace for his use of temporary admin powers simply hid the fact he is unfit to be an admin with free reign across the board. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 01:06, 19 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
*'''Support''': I read this and didn't plan to vote, but Jeancey PM'd me the other day to tell me he was in an RfA, so I figured "What the hell?" Jeancey's an excellent editor, when I've had problems or questions, we were quick to amicably resolve them, and he's a fun, polite guy to talk to. Not to mention a Contributions page showing over 50,000 edits across numerous regions of the site. He's definitely a team player, he's knowledgeable about the wiki, the functions involved in the management of the wiki, and he's a communicator, so he's an asset to the site as an long term administrator. -[[User:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-size:110%; font-family:Veranda,serif">damon</span>]]&nbsp; <sup>[[User_talk:Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">talk</span>]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|<span style="color:lilac; font-family:Veranda,serif">contribs</span>]]</sup> 03:25, 19 October 2014 (GMT)<br />
* '''Support''': He is a bot-like creature, and a very effective one at that. Add friendliness on the IRC, along with good cooperating skills, and you have an admin. Supported. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:32, 19 October 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1393793User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-09-24T06:13:22Z<p>Krusty: emptying</p>
<hr />
<div></div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty&diff=1393792User:Krusty2014-09-24T06:12:59Z<p>Krusty: /* SKYRIM */ +1</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Notice|message=<center>QUOTE OF THE WEEK<br><br />
'''''''You just let old nana know if you need anything, all right dear?'''''''<br><br />
</center>}}<br />
{| style="float:left; margin-right:1.5em;" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=1 rules=none <br />
|{{User Admin}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Danish}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Oblivion}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Male}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Playstation}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User ShiveringIsles}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2009|month=2|day=11}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User IRC}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Dawnstar}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{Userbox|#ffeecc|#ffeeee|[[File:User-userbox-Quill.gif]]|info=This user has made over [[Special:UsersEditCount|20,000 edits]] to UESP.}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{Userbox|#000000|#DCDCDC|[[Image:SR-icon-logo.jpg|25px]]|info=This user pretends to be knowledgeable about '''[[sr:Skyrim|Skyrim]]'''.}}<br />
|}<br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox|Sandbox 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox2|Sandbox 2]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox3|Sandbox 3]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox4|Sandbox 4]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox5|Sandbox 5]] •<br>• [[User:Krusty/Sandbox6|Sandbox 6]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox7|Sandbox 7]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox8|Sandbox 8]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox9|Sandbox 9]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|Sandbox 10]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Skyrim_NPC_Articles|Skyrim NPC articles]] • [[User:Krusty/Dawnstar_Images|Dawnstar Images]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Dawnstar_Notepad|Dawnstar Notepad]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/Camp 1|Camp 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/House 1|House 1]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/House 2|House 2]] • [[User:Krusty/Sandbox/SIRP|SIRP]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[User:Krusty/Cookies|Cookie Jar]] • </center><br />
<center> • [[Special:Emailuser/Krusty|e-mail]] • </center><br />
<center>{{Ribbon|width=120px|OBNPCRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|SIRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|OPRP}}{{Ribbon|width=120px|ICP}}{{Ribbon|SRQRP|width=120px}}{{Ribbon|SHRP|width=120px}}<br />
</center><br />
===ABOUT ME===<br />
My real name is [[Oblivion:Jesper| Jesper]] and I am a 40 year-old male, living in Denmark. I make a living as a freelance editor on films and television and have done so for the last 19 years. Due to the financial crisis, business weren't good in the first few months of 2009, and instead of boring myself to death, I decided to join this Wiki, which I had used numerous times since I started playing Oblivion in the summer of 2008. My very first edit was a half-baked and a bit naive schedule for [[Oblivion:Marana Rian|Marana Rian]], a trainer that I had chased around after in order to find her - again and again. I figured, I would help gamers avoid the same amount of trouble. So I followed her around for two whole in-game days, which, at the time, felt like a lifetime. Understandably (when I look at it now), Rpeh reverted my schedule, but noted in his Edit Summary, that I had been very close. After talking to him on his talk page, he offered me a gig as an in-game checker on something called the '''[[UESPWiki:Oblivion_NPC_Redesign_Project|ONPCRP]]''' - short for the Oblivion NPC Redesign Project, and I slowly started to spy on the different NPCs that were already written. At one point, I felt so secure about the game's mechanics and the NPC behavior, that I was given permission to write my own - from observations made in the game. The rest is history, and I am now a steady contributor to the project, having followed over 500+ NPCs around (mind you, every NPC takes between 48 minutes and 6 hours to check/write in-game), and I have no intentions of slowing down - except for the fact, that the TV editing jobs are slowly crawling back to me, which is good, even though it means I DO have to slow down - a little.<br><br />
'''(text written in 2009)'''<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
[[File:SI-npc-Relmyna_Verenim.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Janus_Hassildor.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Methredhel.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Amusei.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Fathis Ules.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Countess_Alessia_Caro.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
[[File:OB-npc-Modryn_Oreyn.jpg|thumb|right]]<br />
<br />
===SKYRIM===<br />
I wrote the following Skyrim articles and feel responsible for their maintenance: <br />
*{{Quest Link|Take Up Arms}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Proving Honor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Silver Hand}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Blood's Honor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Purity of Revenge}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Glory of the Dead}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Tending the Flames}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Finn's Lute}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Pantea's Flute}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Blood on the Ice}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Only Cure}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Taste of Death}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Narfi}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Salt for Arcadia}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Locate the Assassin of Old}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Take the Hidden Treasure}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Black Star}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Forbidden Legend}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Flight or Fight}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Beitild}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Mourning Never Comes}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Kill Maluril}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Dark Brotherhood Forever}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A Daedra's Best Friend}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Bleak Falls Barrow (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The House of Horrors}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Joining the Legion}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Ghost of Old Hroldan}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Salty Sea-Dogs}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ansilvund (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ragnvald (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Man Who Cried Wolf}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Dark Ancestor}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Yngol's Barrow}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Find the Thalmor Assassin}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Unfathomable Depths}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Blessings of Nature}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rise in the East}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Diplomatic Immunity}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Evil in Waiting}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A Scroll For Anska}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Robber's Gorge (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rannveig's Fast (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Liar's Retreat (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Volskygge (quest)}} <br />
*{{Quest Link|The Break of Dawn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hitting the Books}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Grimsever's Return}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Elder Knowledge}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Temple of Miraak|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Fate of the Skaal|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Alduin's Bane}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Paid in Full|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|First Edition|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Feeding the Addiction|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|It's All In The Taste|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A New Source of Stalhrim|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Clean Sweep|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|An Axe to Find|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Final Descent|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The Chief of Thirsk Hall|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Fetch the Netch|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Served Cold|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Reluctant Steward|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Healing a House|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost Legacy|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Briarheart Necropsy|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|The White Phial (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Repairing the Phial}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Rjorn's Drum}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Retaking Thirsk|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Frostflow Abyss (quest)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Drowned Sorrows}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Old Friends|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hilund Favor Quest|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost Knowledge|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Deathbrand (quest)|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Hrodulf's House (quest)|game=Dragonborn}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A False Front (Imperial)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Bolstering the Ranks}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lost to the Ages}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Prophet (Dawnguard)}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|A New Order}}<br />
*{{Quest Link|Ill Met By Moonlight}}<br />
__NOTOC__</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Ill_Met_By_Moonlight&diff=1393791Skyrim:Ill Met By Moonlight2014-09-24T06:11:28Z<p>Krusty: full quest walkthrough; layout and new images; cleanup-tag to bugs section; thanks ABCface, Psylocke, AKB!</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Krusty<br />
|checkedBy=<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in the name of the Daedric Prince, [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]].<br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]]'s challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice.<br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experiences its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are there for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius... and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways.<br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies, who can usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year-old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies' last words will be: ''"What could drive a man to do something like this?"''<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is built in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. Sinding, the supposed killer, sits in the northeastern cell waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: ''"Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring."''<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes.]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: ''"I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free."'' You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: ''"Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell."'' Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: ''"You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?"''<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|left|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_4.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] appears.]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set off at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: ''"I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine."'' Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: ''"I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me."'' At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you.<br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man's Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]], already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]], is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
|style="width:50%" align="right"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; right: 9em;"> '''Hircine's Will'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|style="padding-right:1em"|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_6.jpg|thumb|left|Hunted down]]If you choose to follow Hircine's will, you will have no choice but to challenge Sinding, who will respect your decision: ''"So be it."'' After that, he will jump down from the ledge, and you must hunt him down. At this point, several hunters will spawn in the cave, all of them under oath to the Daedric Prince, and they will all go for Sinding. Make your way up the stairs to the northeast and pass through the small ruin. As you make your way down in a western direction, you will stumble upon the bodies of several dead hunters, all of them too weak to kill Sinding. When you reach a small streamlet, Sinding should be finished with the hunters and will come rushing towards you. You will have no choice but to pick the fight and slay him. Activate the dead body and claim his [[Skyrim:Sinding's Skin|skin]], and the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]], a ghostly version of Sinding himself, will manifest before you, saying: ''"You've done well, hunter."'' When told that you did as commanded, he will respond: ''"And found my favor. That skin will serve you well, child. Look more closely at it. My glories shall protect you from all this world's grievances. Good hunting."'' He will then remove the [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|cursed ring]], and change Sinding's skin to the reward, the unique [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]].<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|style="width:50%" align="left"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; left: 9em;"> '''Help Sinding'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_5.jpg|thumb|right|Hunter vs. Hunter]] If you choose to go against Hircine's will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
====Multiple Rewards====<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE:''' It is entirely possible to obtain both rewards, or both rings, although it could be considered cheating. Please click the show button for tips and tricks, and remember to save your game before attempting: {{Showhide/Start|Tips and Tricks →}}<br />
<br />
'''MULTIPLE REWARDS'''<br><br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead.<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
'''BOTH RINGS'''<br><br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide.<br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
'''ALTERNATE PROCEDURE'''<br><br />
# Help Sinding and kill the hunters.<br />
# Place cursed ring in chest.<br />
# Go outside. Hircine will talk to you. '''Don't talk back. Exit the conversation and go back to the cave.'''<br />
# Kill Sinding, skin, talk to Hircine (the one inside the Grotto) and get Savior's Hide.<br />
# Place Savior's Hide in chest.<br />
# Go outside. The other Hircine will still be there. Talk to him and get the good ring.<br />
# Go back to the chest inside and get the cursed ring and Savior's Hide.<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{cleanup|So many confirmed bugs, so few fixes by the USRP - are they even worth mentioning?}}<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1393790User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-09-24T06:09:12Z<p>Krusty: /* Bugs */</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Krusty<br />
|checkedBy=<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in the name of the Daedric Prince, [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]].<br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]]'s challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice.<br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experiences its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are there for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius... and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways.<br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies, who can usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year-old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies' last words will be: ''"What could drive a man to do something like this?"''<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is built in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. Sinding, the supposed killer, sits in the northeastern cell waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: ''"Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring."''<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes.]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: ''"I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free."'' You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: ''"Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell."'' Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: ''"You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?"''<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|left|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_4.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] appears.]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set off at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: ''"I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine."'' Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: ''"I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me."'' At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you.<br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man's Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]], already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]], is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
|style="width:50%" align="right"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; right: 9em;"> '''Hircine's Will'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|style="padding-right:1em"|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_6.jpg|thumb|left|Hunted down]]If you choose to follow Hircine's will, you will have no choice but to challenge Sinding, who will respect your decision: ''"So be it."'' After that, he will jump down from the ledge, and you must hunt him down. At this point, several hunters will spawn in the cave, all of them under oath to the Daedric Prince, and they will all go for Sinding. Make your way up the stairs to the northeast and pass through the small ruin. As you make your way down in a western direction, you will stumble upon the bodies of several dead hunters, all of them too weak to kill Sinding. When you reach a small streamlet, Sinding should be finished with the hunters and will come rushing towards you. You will have no choice but to pick the fight and slay him. Activate the dead body and claim his [[Skyrim:Sinding's Skin|skin]], and the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]], a ghostly version of Sinding himself, will manifest before you, saying: ''"You've done well, hunter."'' When told that you did as commanded, he will respond: ''"And found my favor. That skin will serve you well, child. Look more closely at it. My glories shall protect you from all this world's grievances. Good hunting."'' He will then remove the [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|cursed ring]], and change Sinding's skin to the reward, the unique [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]].<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|style="width:50%" align="left"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; left: 9em;"> '''Help Sinding'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_5.jpg|thumb|right|Hunter vs. Hunter]] If you choose to go against Hircine's will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
====Multiple Rewards====<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE:''' It is entirely possible to obtain both rewards, or both rings, although it could be considered cheating. Please click the show button for tips and tricks, and remember to save your game before attempting: {{Showhide/Start|Tips and Tricks →}}<br />
<br />
'''MULTIPLE REWARDS'''<br><br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead.<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
'''BOTH RINGS'''<br><br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide.<br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
'''ALTERNATE PROCEDURE'''<br><br />
# Help Sinding and kill the hunters.<br />
# Place cursed ring in chest.<br />
# Go outside. Hircine will talk to you. '''Don't talk back. Exit the conversation and go back to the cave.'''<br />
# Kill Sinding, skin, talk to Hircine (the one inside the Grotto) and get Savior's Hide.<br />
# Place Savior's Hide in chest.<br />
# Go outside. The other Hircine will still be there. Talk to him and get the good ring.<br />
# Go back to the chest inside and get the cursed ring and Savior's Hide.<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{cleanup|So many confirmed bugs, so few fixes by the USRP - are they even worth mentioning?}}<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Krusty&diff=1388801User talk:Krusty2014-09-05T06:21:41Z<p>Krusty: /* Input Needed */ partial reply</p>
<hr />
<div>{{TOCright}}<br />
'''Archives''':<br />
{| class=hiddentable width="60%"<br />
|-<br />
|style="width:15%"|[[User talk:Krusty/Arc_2009|2009 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010a|2010 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011a|2011 pt 1]]||style="width:15%"|[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2012a|2012 pt 1]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2013a|2013 pt 1]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010b|2010 pt 2]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011b|2011 pt 2]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2012b|2012 pt 2]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010c|2010 pt 3]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011c|2011 pt 3]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2010d|2010 pt 4]]||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011d|2011 pt 4]]<br />
|-<br />
| ||-||[[User_talk:Krusty/Arc_2011e|2011 pt 5]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Thanks! ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the speedy deletes on the files that I uploaded that were sitting there waiting to be deleted. Made a few mistakes <_< Glad to see that's been cleaned up. :) [[User:GodRaine|GodRaine]]<sup>[[User talk:GodRaine|Talk]]</sup> 17:52, 30 July 2013 (GMT)<br />
: No problem! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:05, 30 July 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Info On Morrowind Boat Guards On Prison Ship ==<br />
<br />
Since a page on one of the guards got deleted last time I created the page, should the info on the boat guards go on [[MW:Guard|this page]]? It is just that for Morrowind, some players (such as myself) might want to know the armor and things about these characters. <big>''[[User:Dragon Guard|<font color="000080">'''Guard of Dragons'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Dragon Guard|<font color="FF0000">'''Speak To Me'''</font>]]</sup>''</big> 13:08, 7 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
:Because the page got deleted that time, I will be working on it in my [[User:Dragon Guard/Sandbox|Sandbox]], just for now. <big>''[[User:Dragon Guard|<font color="000080">'''Guard of Dragons'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Dragon Guard|<font color="FF0000">'''Speak To Me'''</font>]]</sup>''</big> 15:34, 7 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Kjeld / Kjeld the Younger dialogue ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty, while I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to take [[:File:SR-npc-Kjeld_the_Younger_02.jpg|this shot]] for your image requests, I’ve discovered that the lines in [http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00023e77 DialogueKynesgroveKjeldYoungerKjeld1] are mixed up – Kjeld initiates the conversation by saying ''"Papa, mama's making me do kitchen work again."'' to his son, and so forth. Maybe you want to add a note about this to KtY’s NPC article? --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 13:08, 9 August 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Bon Appétit! ==<br />
<br />
{{Prize<br />
|width=300px<br />
|image=SR-interior-The Frozen Hearth 03.jpg<br />
|imagesz=250px<br />
|title=You have been given an entrée!<br />
|intromessage=Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a delectable array of food because of it (complete with bread, pie, cheese, sweetrolls, apples, and a wine selection!). Good work! The user had the following to say:<br />
}}<br />
Heeeey, Krusty! Nice job with Skjor's page (and ''a lot'' of other pages)! You've been conscientiously and continuously working on so many NPC and quest articles lately. I'm sure the other regular editors also see the huge amount of effort you've been putting in :D. I actually wanted to give you a plateful of cookies but realised it's just not enough :P. So, I came up with my own custom-made prize hee :3. Enjoy the meal! Oh, by the way Krusty, what's that behind you? <small>*Runs off with a slice of cheese and looks for ABCface*</small> ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 16:39, 4 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:Psylocke's right, a plateful of cookies is ''not'' enough. Krusty, you write fantastic pages and have been doing so for a long time. I didn't realize it when I first started using this wiki years ago (as a reader, not an editor), but you had a lot to do with why I got sucked into UESP in the first place- your attention to detail and your goal of full documentation while always seeing the "story" in everything is awesome. So many of the pages you've written are ''exactly'' what I think we should strive for around here. Keep doing what you're doing, bossman. :) — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 02:28, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
::Here, here! --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]]</small></sup> 03:43, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::''Thump…'' Putting another bottle of wine on the table. :) --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 08:46, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::: Thank you so much for the kind words, everybody! Very much appreciated! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:45, 5 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== [[:File:SR-npc-Corpulus Vinius.jpg]] ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Krusty. I ''did'' replace it; I didn't colour-correct the previous image as it is beyond repair. You can clearly see it's a new image from the positioning of the skeever head and the hanging ingredients, and also from the drastic jump in quality indicated by the file size. I used only the natural lighting of the inn (from the candles and chandeliers) per your request, and did not use any [[Skyrim:Light|Light]] spell like in the previous image. Can you please specify what other changes you want? Do you want a full body image? ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 06:27, 26 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Whoah, sorry about that - for whatever reason it didn't update in my sandbox. Sloppiness on my part! I'll get rid of the request now. :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 06:36, 26 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Your Sandbox on Jaree-Ra ==<br />
<br />
During the battle with him, he may say things such as: ''"First you murder my sister, then you massacre my men!"'', ''"You've betrayed me, murdered my sister and massacred my men!"'', ''"To Oblivion with your loot! This ends now!"'' or ''"You don't have what it takes to kill me."''<br />
I am just helping on additions to the sandbox, that's all. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:21, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:I have found something else that is interesting, some unused dialogue or something. [[http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x0007eacc THIS]] '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:27, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
::Yeah, I've looked into it, and it seems like Captain Aldis was assigned to the quest at some point, making a few oddities in the game files. If none of them concerns Jaree-Ra, it's not for his article, but it should be mentioned somewhere (at some point). As for the battle-dialogue, I still have to double-check that when I get back to my PS3. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:38, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::I found something else. [[http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00088ca6 THIS]]. It looks like he had unused dialogue and / or if the player calmed him, he would say some unique lines. This will be a good mystery to solve. Solving unused dialogue. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:46, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::: Finding and documneting unused dialogue is what we do - however, I can do little with the Sandbox right now, but will look into all of that over the weekend. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:52, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::::Yes, I'm sure we will solve the dialogue mystery over the weekend. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 22:59, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::::: {{ec}} It looks like in the first of DG's links, both lines are conditional on stage 105, which doesn't exist. In the second of DG's links, the first line should be possible at stage 225, which does exist, but I don't see any way of getting to it. If you do, I think you'd get an error when it tries to advance to the non-existent stage 160 (which is part of the scripting I don't think you can see in the CSList). The second line is supposed to be conditional on stage 1500, which also doesn't exist. That one also wants to advance the quest to stage 160. My guess is that there were some substantial rewrites to this quest at some point and they forgot to remove the leftover. Good spots, DG!<br />
<br />
:::::: Oh, and if there's anything you need me to check on in game, completely coincidentally, I'm right in the middle of this quest in my current game. I've put out the lighthouse, but haven't yet gone to the Icerunner, so that's probably the perfect spot if anything needs testing. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 23:34, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
{{od}} Ah, nice work! ☺ If you are in the middle of the quest, maybe see if you can trigger some unique combat lines during your encounter with him in the grotto. I don’t think they’ll trigger, but better safe than sorry. Thanks in advance! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:38, 30 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:I told you that it would be a good mystery to solve. RobinHood has discovered more mysteries - non-existing quest stages. Good work on finding another mystery! :) '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 07:49, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::If I'd been thinking, I would've just looked up those lines earlier. If I had, I would've saved myself some in game testing, but oh well, at least that quest is done now. :) Anyway, all the combat lines in DG's first post are linked to the missing stages, so they'll never actually be said in game. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 08:05, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::So, Captain Aldis played a part in the quest with unused dialogue that wasn't included in the game. We could note that on his page.<br />
<br />
:::And we'll note Jaree-Ra's unused dialogue on his page somewhere.<br />
<br />
:::RobinHood, can I ask you something else while you're here? On [[Dragonborn:Miraak (person)#Notes|Miraak notes]], it lists some potentially unused dialogue that I added some while ago. Can you quickly check out that dialogue in the CK and find out whether it's unused or linked to a missing quest stage. Thanks in advance!<br />
<br />
:::I ''really'' am curious to know if Jaree-Ra says anything unique if you can calm him in the grotto. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 10:08, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::I'm just on my way to bed, but I'll look into these tomorrow. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 10:16, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Well, now I'm confused. Somehow, on entering Broken Oar Grotto, stage 225 ''is'' getting set, though I can't figure out how. Anyway, that means that the dialogue lines "You've betrayed me, murdered my sister and massacred my men!" and "To Oblivion with your loot! This ends now!" are indeed available when Jaree-Ra is calmed. I think Krusty's looking into Captain Aldis, so I'll let him respond to that, and I'll respond to Miraak <s>on that page</s> once I've had a look into it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:05, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::Good luck with that. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:14, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
{{od}}We also have to be sure that the unused dialogue and quest stages are right, so we should slowly and accurately see to them, one at a time. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:18, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Sorry, didn't notice that the Dragonborn thing wasn't a talk page post, so I'm going back to responding here. :) I don't see anything obvious that rules out that dialogue being said. Unfortunately, I'm nowhere near anything Dragonborn-related in my current game, so I can't readily test it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 22:21, 31 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Re: Your Recent Undo to My Chatroom-Like Reply ==<br />
<br />
Did you feel like it was unnecessary for me to ask if RH had any luck yet? '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 20:37, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Yes. This wiki is a collaborative effort, and we never rush each other. Now please, no more posts on my talk, unless it's important. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:20, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
::I understand now. I will refrain from doing this in any future talk page posts. '''<font color="000000">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="red">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]</font></sup>''' 21:28, 1 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Image Request ==<br />
<br />
Hi there, Krusty. I thought I'd bring {{Pl|UESPWiki:Image Requests|diff=1255827&oldid=1255691|this}} to your attention, as you probably have missed it. For that related request, I have already uploaded interior images for it before you even created and placed your request on the image requests page. I'm not sure if you did not notice those images when you checked the article, hence adding that article to the request list, or if you want other images/better images for that article. ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 13:47, 27 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Yep, my mistake - I was going to request another round of images, but I have very little wiki-time these days, so I'll do it later. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:03, 27 November 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Chat Ban ==<br />
I would like to know why I was banned from the chat, I was not doing anything, it was the other person that was in the chatroom. please tell me what I did wrong if I did do something[[Special:Contributions/82.16.197.204|82.16.197.204]] 23:58, 9 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
: No problem, I just had to shut down the webchat temporarily. It will be back up and running soon. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 00:01, 10 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
:: Okay thank you [[Special:Contributions/82.16.197.204|82.16.197.204]] 00:04, 10 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Removal of A note about Ysolda's somewhat unique animation. ==<br />
<br />
You seem to have "removed false note about carrying a basket; image too" in [[Skyrim:Ysolda]], but this is not a 'false note', really. Ysolda MAY have basket and flowers in her inventory randomly and if she does, she MAY carry them as shown on the image. Granted, it is not what she ALWAYS does, but she certainly does that. There is another animation of this kind-with NPC carrying a bucket, it can be seen in the beginning of the game. So, uh, maybe you will consider undoing your deletion? [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 17:44, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
: To support my claim of being truthful, I hereby present a link to some youtube video. At 0:08 one could see her doing that! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggFVKlGopo [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 17:58, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:: Like many other NPCs, Ysolda has a <code> WhiterunYsoldaCarryBasketPatrol16x4</code> package, meaning she will carry around her basket between 4pm and 8pm. It’s not rare enough to warrant a special note – for examples, visit [[Skyrim:Nilsine Shatter-Shield|Nilsine Shatter-Shield]] between noon and 6pm, or [[Skyrim:Sosia_Tremellia|Sosia Tremellia]] between 7am and 6pm. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:04, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::: Oh, I never saw any other NPC with a flower basket... before... Now I see that I was wrong... =] [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 18:49, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::: No problem! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 18:52, 28 January 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Happy Anniversary! ==<br />
<br />
Congrats on passing the 5-year mark. Not a lot of us make it this far! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 07:30, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
:Woohoo Krusty! Seems like the perfect opportunity to thank you for all the support you've given me as I have grown as an editor. <span style="background:#000"> [[User:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">--Nocte&#124;</span>]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Chat&#124;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Look</span>]]</span> 07:37, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Happy Wiki-versary, Krusty! :) [[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 09:44, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: Thanks - time flies when you're having fun! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:00, 11 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: Congratulations! I dub thee "wiki dinosaur", or "wikisaur" for short. • <span style="font-family:DragonscriptRegular;">[[User:Jak Atackka|<span title="Jak Atackka" style="line-height:1.0; font-size:16px; color: #C10;">JA</span>]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|<sup><span title="Talk" style="color:black;">T</span></sup>]]</span> 00:15, 13 February 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== General:Dawnstar ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty! The Silencer put [[General:Dawnstar]] up for speedy deletion, but I notice in the delete logs that you deleted it back in August 2010 and Rpeh restored it just under a week later citing "Historical necessity". I know it's been almost four years, but do you have any idea what that was about? My best guess would be that it's search-related, but now that we've got a better search, I suspect we don't need it anymore. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 08:30, 8 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
: Hmm, I can’t remember a thing about why it should be kept, so whatever historical necessity it may have seems to have expired. I’d say delete it. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 10:01, 8 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Wikibreak ==<br />
<br />
Krusty!!! Hope your real-life problems get sorted out soon! You will be missed during your absence for sure. Please feel free to let me know if there is aught you need! <span style="background:#000"> [[User:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">--Nocte&#124;</span>]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Chat&#124;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|<span style="color:#fff">Look</span>]]</span> 08:42, 11 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Input Needed ==<br />
<br />
Hey Krusty. Can you have a look at [[UESPWiki_talk:Skyrim_Quest_Redesign_Project#finished_pages|this discussion]] and provide feedback. Thanks! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:44, 21 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks RH! Krusty - Was wanting to standardize the headers in the Skyrim Houses pages, as they are pretty much all over the place. I posted this on the [[UESPWiki talk:Skyrim Houses Redesign Project#Header uniformity?|project discussion]] but was advised to double-check with you and Silencer (cc'd on this). I was hoping to start cleaning up some of the Houses, but wanted your input on headers before I do. I was proposing:<br />
==Header 1, no italics, for main space, i.e., The White Phial, Bob's House==<br />
===Header 2, no italics, for any zones===<br />
Let me know your thoughts. --[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 22:33, 4 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Hey Beezer, thanks for the message. I'm on my way to work right now, but agree that the layout is all over the place right now. I'll take a look this evening and post my thoughts here. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 06:21, 5 September 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1386966User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-09-02T21:35:08Z<p>Krusty: /* Hunting the White Stag */ + image; thanks AKB!</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Krusty<br />
|checkedBy=<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in the name of the Daedric Prince, [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]]. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice. <br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experience its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are in Falkreath for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius...and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways. <br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies, who can usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies last words will be: What could drive a man to do something like this?<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is build in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. In the northeastern cell sits Sinding, the supposed killer, waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring.<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free. You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell. Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|left|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_4.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] appears]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set of at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine. Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me. At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you.<br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man’s Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]] already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]] is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%" <br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
|style="width:50%" align="right"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; right: 9em;"> '''Hircine's Will'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|style="padding-right:1em"|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_6.jpg|thumb|left|Hunted down]]If you choose to follow Hircine’s will, you will have no choice but to challenge Sinding, who will respect your decision: ''"So be it."'' After that, he will jump down from the ledge, and you must hunt him down. At this point, several hunters will spawn in the cave, all of them under oath to the Daedric Prince, and they will all go for Sinding. Make your way up the stairs to the northeast and pass through the small ruin. As you make your way down in a western direction, you will stumble upon the bodies of several dead hunters, all of them too weak to kill Sinding. When you reach a small streamlet, Sinding should be finished with the hunters and will come rushing towards you. You will have no choice but to pick the fight and slay him. Activate the dead body and claim his [[Skyrim:Sinding's Skin|skin]], and the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]], a ghostly version of Sinding himself, will manifest before you, saying: ''"You've done well, hunter."'' When told that you did as commanded, he will respond: ''"And found my favor. That skin will serve you well, child. Look more closely at it. My glories shall protect you from all this world's grievances. Good hunting."'' He will then remove the [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|cursed ring]], and change Sinding’s skin to the reward, the unique [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]].<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%" <br />
|style="width:50%" align="left"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; left: 9em;"> '''Help Sinding'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_5.jpg|thumb|right|Hunter vs Hunter]] If you choose to go against Hircine’s will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
====Multiple Rewards====<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE:''' It is entirely possible to obtain both rewards, or both rings, although it could be considered cheating. Please click the show button for tips and tricks, and remember to save your game before attempting: {{Showhide/Start|Tips and Tricks →}}<br />
<br />
'''MULTIPLE REWARDS'''<br><br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
'''BOTH RINGS'''<br><br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
'''ALTERNATE PROCEDURE'''<br><br />
# Help Sinding and kill the hunters.<br />
# Place cursed ring in chest.<br />
# Go outside. Hircine will talk to you. '''Don't talk back. Exit the conversation and go back to the cave.'''<br />
# Kill Sinding, skin, talk to Hircine (the one inside the Grotto) and get Savior's Hide.<br />
# Place Savior's Hide in chest.<br />
# Go outside. The other Hircine will still be there. Talk to him and get the good ring.<br />
# Go back to the chest inside and get the cursed ring and Savior's Hide.<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alphabetface&diff=1386964User talk:Alphabetface2014-09-02T21:32:48Z<p>Krusty: /* Mail */ reply</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Page Icon|Icon-Email.png|E-mail Alphabetface|Special:EmailUser/Alphabetface|16}}<br />
<br />
== Welcome Back! ==<br />
OMG! OMG! It's Alphabetface! OMG! Errr...I mean...welcome back! :Þ <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 13:48, 20 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
:LOL. Thanks, RH. I don't really know ''how'' back I am, but hi! :) — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 23:06, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Even if you can't spend that much time, it's still just nice seeing you around again ABC! --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 23:34, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Thanks AKB! I do miss it, and hope to be around more, even if it's not much. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 23:52, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::D'oh! I never even noticed I posted this to your user page. That's what you get for making it a redirect. ;) <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:28, 29 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Black-Briar mead ==<br />
<br />
Hiya, Can I ask why you have capitalised the M in mead for Black-Briar mead in Duskglow Crevice, when Nord mead is shown as a small m. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 11:39, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Nord mead is just generic mead, but Black-Brair Mead is a brand name. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 12:14, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Mail ==<br />
<br />
Miss Face, please check your mail. :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:14, 27 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
: Okay, ABC, I’m not getting any mail so I think our usual channel must be down. I just wanted to ask, if you were done with the Maven Black-Briar sandbox, and if you wanted to take a proofy look at my rewrite of [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|Ill Met By Moonlight]]? Thanks! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:04, 1 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Okay, I know I talked to you yesterday on IRC about this, but apparently I will be without internet at home until Monday. I may be able to get online at a shop or restaurant before then, but don't be surprised if the proofreading doesn't happen until next week. Sorry, boss! — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 21:19, 2 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: No worries, and no rush - I have an awfully long list of bugs on that Moonlight page, and I have to kill a few of them before launch. :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:32, 2 September 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1386960User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-09-02T20:58:54Z<p>Krusty: /* Bloated Man's Grotto */</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Krusty<br />
|checkedBy=<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in the name of the Daedric Prince, [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]]. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice. <br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experience its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are in Falkreath for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius...and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways. <br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies, who can usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies last words will be: What could drive a man to do something like this?<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is build in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. In the northeastern cell sits Sinding, the supposed killer, waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring.<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free. You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell. Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set of at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine. Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me. At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you. <br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man’s Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]] already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]] is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%" <br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
|style="width:50%" align="right"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; right: 9em;"> '''Hircine's Will'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|style="padding-right:1em"|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_6.jpg|thumb|left|Hunted down]]If you choose to follow Hircine’s will, you will have no choice but to challenge Sinding, who will respect your decision: ''"So be it."'' After that, he will jump down from the ledge, and you must hunt him down. At this point, several hunters will spawn in the cave, all of them under oath to the Daedric Prince, and they will all go for Sinding. Make your way up the stairs to the northeast and pass through the small ruin. As you make your way down in a western direction, you will stumble upon the bodies of several dead hunters, all of them too weak to kill Sinding. When you reach a small streamlet, Sinding should be finished with the hunters and will come rushing towards you. You will have no choice but to pick the fight and slay him. Activate the dead body and claim his [[Skyrim:Sinding's Skin|skin]], and the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]], a ghostly version of Sinding himself, will manifest before you, saying: ''"You've done well, hunter."'' When told that you did as commanded, he will respond: ''"And found my favor. That skin will serve you well, child. Look more closely at it. My glories shall protect you from all this world's grievances. Good hunting."'' He will then remove the [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|cursed ring]], and change Sinding’s skin to the reward, the unique [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]].<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%" <br />
|style="width:50%" align="left"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; left: 9em;"> '''Help Sinding'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_5.jpg|thumb|right|Hunter vs Hunter]] If you choose to go against Hircine’s will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
====Multiple Rewards====<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE:''' It is entirely possible to obtain both rewards, or both rings, although it could be considered cheating. Please click the show button for tips and tricks, and remember to save your game before attempting: {{Showhide/Start|Tips and Tricks →}}<br />
<br />
'''MULTIPLE REWARDS'''<br><br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
'''BOTH RINGS'''<br><br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
'''ALTERNATE PROCEDURE'''<br><br />
# Help Sinding and kill the hunters.<br />
# Place cursed ring in chest.<br />
# Go outside. Hircine will talk to you. '''Don't talk back. Exit the conversation and go back to the cave.'''<br />
# Kill Sinding, skin, talk to Hircine (the one inside the Grotto) and get Savior's Hide.<br />
# Place Savior's Hide in chest.<br />
# Go outside. The other Hircine will still be there. Talk to him and get the good ring.<br />
# Go back to the chest inside and get the cursed ring and Savior's Hide.<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:RobinHood70&diff=1386957User talk:RobinHood702014-09-02T20:47:50Z<p>Krusty: /* Conversations */ thanks</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ {{SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/MOTD}}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{/StdHeader}}<br />
<br />
== Axius! ==<br />
<br />
Hey RobinHood70! I know you are under the weather, and here’s hoping for a speedy recovery. I have a few questions about one [[Skyrim:Bassianus Axius|Bassianus Axius]], for now stashed away in my sandbox [[User:Krusty/Sandbox6|here]]. First, I can’t trigger his third greeting (''"Is it absolutely necessary for you to bother me right now?"''), so maybe you can find the conditions? Second, I have a hard time figuring out when he will leave for Riften, with or without Fastred. Also, was he supposed to have a schedule in Riften? All the best, and no rush! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:38, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I took a look at the dialogue, that line (which I also have never heard before), has a condition "GetTalkedToPC = 0", which I assume means he says it when he's never talked to you, so yeah I see how that would not make sense, considering it's the third line, and the other two take precedence over it. As for him moving to Riften, it's a bit difficult to understand all these things, but it seems to be handled by a "post quest", and all I can see there is that they are removed from the Ivarsteadfaction and added to the Riftenfaction, and they are moved to the bunkhouse. If he has a schedule for Riften, I don't know what it is. I'm guessing this post quest is activated when the quest is finished, I believe I've read they move to Riften when the whole quest is completed, and not just their part of the quest ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 21:52, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Hey Dwarf; I also noticed that strange condition, and I guess it’s an unused line. As for the schedule in Riften, I’l have to complete the quest in its entirety and make sure it is stated correctly – right now, I’ve used the old text.--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:03, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: As you've probably gathered from my FB posts, I'm hoping for a rather big change tomorrow afternoon. We'll see how that goes. Anyway, onto business....<br />
<br />
::: Dwarf's already explained the dialogue issue. I have nothing further to add there. Bassianius' schedule in Riften is that he sleeps in the bunkhouse from 8pm-4am and then wanders Riften randomly after that. Dwarf: this is defined by the packages added to his Alias in T02PostQuest.<br />
<br />
::: Oh and strangely enough, the post quest kicks in part-way through the quest, when you receive the objective to "Find Fenrig". From the comments in the code, this was done so you couldn't possibly be somewhere that you would see him teleport suddenly into Riften. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:00, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: Thank you so much, both of you. I’ll take a look in-game for good measure, then launch the page. ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:58, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::: Damn, another bug – it seems like he never sleeps in Riften, but instead just wanders around 24 hours a day (Fastred too). Lack of beds…? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:09, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::: I wondered about that when I was looking at it. It looks like there's a minor bug in the sleeping schedule in that it doesn't actually specify where he's supposed to sleep. I ''think'' that would mean he'd sleep wherever he might find a bed if he's close enough, but I'm not sure. It could be that the goof just causes that package to be ignored altogether. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:42, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}} Yeah, from looking at his behavior, he seems very interested in Balimund's forge and spends half the night staring at it. That's all I can come up, but he's definitely not going near the Bunkhouse. I'll add the bug and the patch people can hopefully solve it. ;) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:08, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Logrolf the Willful ==<br />
<br />
Hey RH! Congratulations on that first cup of coffee! A few more of my usual questions, this time about [[Skyrim:Logrolf the Willful|Logrolf the Willful]]. I’m [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|writing an article]] on him, and there are a few loose ends; <br />
* When exactly will he spawn? <br />
* Speech skill required to pass the persuade option when he is trapped?<br />
* Will he travel or teleport to the Abandoned House in Markarth? <br />
Hope you can find the time! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:47, 27 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:He's moved to the correct location and enabled when the relevant part of [[Skyrim:The House of Horrors|The House of Horrors]] starts (stage 80). The speechcraft check is Average, so 50/35. As for travelling or teleporting, I think the answer is "either". It'd need some quick in-game testing, but I suspect if you follow him closely, he'll run all the way there, but there's clearly some code to just teleport him there if he's "unloaded". That might just mean he'll run out of the dungeon and then teleport, though. Not sure. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:10, 27 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: I just took a look at him after freeing him from Broken Tower Redoubt, and it seems like he just teleports to Markarth upon leaving the cell/dungeon. I guess he may run all the way to Markarth if he is trapped in an exterior Forsworn camp, but with this save I get Broken Tower Redoubt, regardless of what I do so I can't fully test it. Anyway, thanks for the help - small question though, about the 50/35-thingy. Is that a required Speech skill of 50? Or where does the 35 come from? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 03:56, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: 35 is what it is if you have the Persuasion perk. So yeah, it's normally 50. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 04:52, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cyclic redirects ==<br />
<br />
Hi there! I wonder if this may be something you could help with. Would it be possible to remove the link from {{tl|Place Link}} if and only if the linked page redirects back to the page with the Place Link on?<br />
<br />
As an example: the ESO stall [[Online:Bridgeside Market|Bridgeside Market]] is a redirect to the marketplace [[Online:Dockside Trading Stalls|Dockside Trading Stalls]] (it was discussed between myself, Jeancey and Alarra back in April on IRC that stalls should redirect to their parent marketplaces), but it is pertinent to list Bridgeside Market on Dockside Trading Stalls, as that is where it is, and the Place Link is the easiest way to do this. So, clicking on Bridgeside Market from Dockside Trading Stalls takes you right back to Dockside Trading Stalls again. It would make more sense, if possible, for the link to be disabled in a case such as this.<br />
<br />
Thanks for any help, and I'll happily try to explain it in a different way if this makes no sense! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:29, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Templates have no way of detecting a redirect, but I've added a <code>nolink</code> parameter to the template, which will serve a similar purpose. You can see that I've added it to the Dockside Trading Stalls page already as an example. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:47, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I wondered whether that might be the only way. But defining the local variable definitely reduces the leg-work that I would otherwise have seen by adding nolink to every individual link, so that's great, thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:56, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::If there are enough of them that it's warranted, I can put the bot on it, but only if there are a lot; if there's only like 30 or 40 pages that would be affected, it's easier for a human to do it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:59, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::No thanks, we don't have many of the store and marketplace pages made yet anyway. Here's another one for you though: any idea why Place Link does not load the settlement parameter from the page it is linking? See the map links for [[ON:Port Hunding|Port Hunding]]'s Shops and Services. They are linking to the Stros M'Kai map rather than the Port Hunding map, despite the fact that the map links on the pages themselves are working. As far as I understand what I coded for Place Link, it should be linking to world={{{settlement}}} if settlement is defined on the page that is loaded. (The links on [[ON:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]] and [[ON:Wayrest|Wayrest]] only work because I forced the zone parameter to them.) --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:07, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::The template wasn't saving the settlement info, so Place Link couldn't pick it up. It'll take a while for the wiki to go through and update all of them, but in theory, they should all be fixed once the [[Special:Statistics|job queue]] is back down to 0. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:16, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::Ah what a nut. Can't load something I never saved, can I? :P &nbsp; Thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:17, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::::It ''can'' be a tad difficult, yeah. You could always insert random information instead and wait to see how long it takes people to notice. :P <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:21, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== P on your parade ==<br />
<br />
The place pages (Place A etc) all sort under 'P' now. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks, I'll have a look at the tempate and fix it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cookies ==<br />
<br />
Can I send someone a cookie? It's for fulfilling some of my many image requests. Cheers. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 01:19, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Yes, anyone can send someone else cookies at any time. Just add {{tl|Cookie}} (or any of the other [[:Category:Prize Templates|Prize Templates]]) along with your message, and you're off to the races. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:22, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Templates using NS_BASE instead of NS_ID for mapicons ==<br />
<br />
I have been noticing that several <nowiki>{{Place Link}}</nowiki> have been causing images to break. When you hover over the broken image, it uses the NS_BASE (ex. Skyrim) instead of the NS_ID (ex. SR) in the beginning of the image name. I did a [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/sandbox|test]] where I changed ''<nowiki>{{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_BASE}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}</nowiki>'' to ''<nowiki>{{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_ID}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}</nowiki>''. The page can be transcluded just fine with that change, but I was wondering if there was a specific reason to have NS_BASE, and if it would be safe to change for the actual template? Jeancey also pointed out that the <nowiki>{{Place Summary}}</nowiki> has broken images, so I [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/Spectatio|changed]] it in a sandbox. ''<nowiki>#define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_base|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}}</nowiki>'' was changed to ''<nowiki>#define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_id|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}}</nowiki>'' in that template. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 18:27, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:The place links break due to bad caching just so you know, a simple null edit always fixes them. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:34, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I've tried that before, but it seems hit or miss if the null edit works. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 18:38, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::{{ec}}The first change you mention would actually cause the check to fail all the time because NS_ID would return "OB", for instance, not "Oblivion". <s>You're right that there's something wrong with it, though, because NS_BASE would never return a secondary namespace like Shivering, it would return Oblivion. Tribunal is noticeably excluded in that list, which means the check should be on NS_NAME, not NS_BASE.</s> Your second change is close, but you'd only want to change the capitalized NS_BASE; the lower-case one is a special parameter name and should stay the same. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:45, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Just to wrap this up (I think), I didn't actually change anything substantive in the Place Link template—I only removed a bunch of unnecessary code. I suspect that, as Silencer said, this is just a case of the caching issues. If anyone sees it happening again, tell me exactly what page it's happening on and exactly what the image name was. I can't see anything that would use the full name rather than the ID. Even if it fails, it should just be blank, so I'm really confused as to why the long namespace name would be showing up anywhere. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:20, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Lorepage Parameter ==<br />
<br />
Since you implemented the lorepage parameter for several of the summary boxes, I was wondering if you could help out with [[Online:Varen Aquilarios|this issue]]. The link becomes illegible due to the blue background for Imperials. Is it possible to change the link's colour along with the name's? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 26 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Done. If the lorepage parameter is actually specified as a full link (not sure if that's ever done), the colour change will have to be done there, but for most of them, it should be fixed now. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:25, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cleanup categories ==<br />
<br />
Hey, I think something in [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACleanup&diff=1367270&oldid=1367261 the change] you made to the Cleanup template broke the namespace categorization, as all the [[:Category:Pages Needing Cleanup|categories]] are empty. I looked to see if I could identify a problem, but I am not adept enough with wiki markup to penetrate the template's switches and everything. -- [[User:Hargrimm|Hargrimm]]<sup>[[User talk:Hargrimm|(T)]]</sup> 05:06, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:That was an easy mistake to make and could've been tough to spot, but thankfully I clued in quickly. The categories should be repopulated shortly. Thanks for letting me know! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 05:16, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== South of Skyrim ==<br />
<br />
Just saying that I haven't forgotten about this. I'm currently doing a Dawnguard playthrough but on my next playthrough, if nothing else I'll use my cellphone to take photos of the journey. They'll be pretty low quality but hopefully will show you where I'm talking about.<br />
<br />
In the meantime if you know anyone with a 360 you could have a go at trying to follow the directions on it. Both of the two of us who reported finding this area were on XBox, it might be a platform-specific glitch. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 00:20, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Even something low quality will be enough to make sure that I'm going where you're going. Platform-specific glitches are very rare, but not unheard of, so it could well be. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:44, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Well I did this, the quality is moderately terrible but the images might be helpful. Should I upload them here? Normally I'd IM them to you. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 04:15, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Probably [mailto:robinhood70@live.ca e-mail] is easiest. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 04:44, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Alright, bah. Don't try to reply to the email once you get it, I really only keep email around nowadays for registering on websites and don't read it otherwise. Is a tarball OK? --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 05:48, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::That should be fine. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 06:08, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
{{od}}Sent. If you have any questions about it, post on my talk page. Your talk page is too busy so I'm unwatching it now. Thanks :) --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 22:17, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== API returning 500 ==<br />
<br />
Hi there! Not sure where best to report this, but I figure you can either deal with it or point me the right way.<br />
<br />
My userjs queries <code>http://uesp.net/w/api.php?action=query&list=recentchanges&format=json&rclimit=10&rcprop=user|parsedcomment|timestamp|title|flags&rcshow=!bot</code> to show a "AJAX" recent changes in the sidebar. This seems to be returning error 500 recently (i.e. I just noticed it today and it wasn't happening two weeks ago. That's the most specificity I got, sorry). This of course breaks my sidebar RC which... makes me a sad battery. :(<br />
<br />
Any ideas why? Anything I can do to fix it? (I've watchlisted, feel free to reply here) <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 20:18, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:P.S. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/User:DimeCadmium/dcutil.js is the code, specifically doRCTimer(). <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 20:24, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Not a clue why this is happening. Trying the same query on the development server works fine, so it may be a bug that's been fixed between 1.19 and 1.22. Of course, if it was working fine a couple of weeks ago, that wouldn't seem likely. I'll poke around a bit and see what I can find. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:47, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Okay, as long as you're on one of the main servers (not mobile), it should be working now. Apparently, somewhere in the new MetaTemplate API, I've used something that only works with a version higher than 1.19. I'll have to chase it down. In the meantime, I've temporarily disabled the MetaTemplate API. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:58, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Yay! I figured it had something to do with [[UESPWiki:Dev History#31_July_2014|this]]. :P Thankee <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 21:04, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, as soon as I realized that you'd said it had worked a couple of weeks ago, I clued in that it must be the changes I'd made yesterday. As it turns out, it wasn't something I'd added, but something I hadn't. There's a long-unused function that you still have to include, even though it's not used. They finally removed it entirely in 1.21. I'll have it updated on all our servers shortly. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:27, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Needed Hyphen? ==<br />
<br />
Hiya, just been looking at watchlist and noticed your comment on the Bloodlet Throne page update where you say the a hyphen is needed to show that the lock is adept not the gate. Not sure what an adept gate is? I've been showing locks without using a hyphen forever. There was a discussion a long while ago (not me) that as there isn't a standard way of showing locks we should continue using the methods we were using. I've had a quick look for it, but can't remember where or even who. Sorry to be a pain. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:18, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:(I've copied your "getting sick" poem as well) [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::I'm not sure what an adept gate is either, so common sense tells you it's an adept lock (at least in context...it's not like that makes sense in real life, either). Grammatically, it's the same as if you'd said "you'll see a red locked gate", for example. Is the gate red and it's locked, or is there a red lock on the gate? Just googling for it, though, it seems that it's a matter of where you grew up to some extent ([http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/hyphens_in_compound_adjectives.htm example]). I wasn't aware of this. I know they're sometimes dropped in other common-use scenarios (like I could've dropped it just there, perhaps), so between that and Americans dropping them sometimes anyway, if you say there's a conversation about it somewhere, I'll defer to that. It'll drive me batty not to hyphenate a compound adjective even when it's obvious what applies to what, but I'm sure I'll survive.<br />
<br />
::And you're welcome to the poem. I stole it from somewhere else, myself, so I can hardly complain! :Þ <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::I've been adding the hypen to your pages whenever I fix them up, Biffa. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:50, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::Ditto, anywhere I see it without, I add it. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 15:57, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}}Hyphenation and comma use vary greatly between different dialects of English. It's not a big deal. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 16:06, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Unique Items ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rob. I'm working on the item pages for [[Skyrim:Unique Items|Unique Items]] and I have a couple creation kit things I was hoping you could clear up for me, when you get the chance. <br />
*During [[Skyrim:The Bonds of Matrimony]], Maramal says that he gives a ring to both the player and the player's spouse. Does he actually give a ring to your spouse?<br />
*Does [[Skyrim:Reveler|the Reveler]] actually carry the Charmed Necklace on his person, or can you only obtain it by trading him the bottle of mead?<br />
*I found [http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00068b72 this dialogue] referencing the [[Skyrim:Nightweaver's Band|Nightweaver's Band]] in the cslist. Will it ever be spoken by Festus? It doesn't seem to be connected to the quest in any way. <br />
<br />
Thanks in advance. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 16:38, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that Festus says that line of dialogue when you return to the sanctuary after [[Skyrim:Recipe for Disaster|Recipe for Disaster]]. You only get the ring if you hide the corpse I think. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::{{ec}}Wait...someone besides Krusty is asking me for a CK verification?!? I'm all lost and confused! :Þ In order:<br />
::* Yes, and it's the exact same ring you get.<br />
::* Yes, it should be on his person. I don't know what (if anything) controls whether something can be pickpocketed, beyond the obvious perks, so in-game verification might be good on that count. I'm fairly sure it would show in his inventory if you kill him, though.<br />
::* It looks like it should be (and Legoless confirmed it while I was getting ec'd), provided that you do everything including hiding the body. The reason it doesn't look connected in CSList is that it's what's called a shared dialogue. That means it's used in more than one place. Those are stored a bit differently, and I don't think CSList links them properly. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 17:49, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Thanks a lot. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 18:09, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::I can confirm the reveler; it's on his body if he dies, he got killed by monsters on my last playthrough. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 18:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::You can buy the ring from your spouse once they open their shop. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 22:00, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Wikia images ==<br />
<br />
Hey Robin. As per the trainwreck you witnessed over on the wikia, you may have guessed I'm no longer admin. As such, I won't be able to delete any future plagiarized images - however I definitely suggest contacting the admins EbonySkyrim or TombRaiser, who will gladly deal with such issues. Thanks! --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 14:59, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for letting me know. It's good to have specific names to go to. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:12, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Email ==<br />
<br />
Hi Robin, please check your email as soon as you can, and maybe hop into chat. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 15:35, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Give me a few minutes. I'm gonna have to reconfigure my IRC to go by the IP address. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:49, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Arena Summerset ==<br />
<br />
Look at the map, it has both islands, it is the province. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:13, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Actually, looking at Arena more in depth, I'm inclined to agree. There's at least one mention of "Summurset Province" along with several "Summurset Isle" and "city of Summurset" references. The fact that there's at least one province and that there are named cities on the second isle convinces me, though. I'll go change the transclusion. I'll leave the page with the "u" spelling, though, as that's the word used exclusively in the text in Arena. The only place I found "Summerset" in Arena was in the executable and I'm not sure if that ever shows up in game. It definitely makes sense to leave the redirect in place, though, given that they seem to have settled on "Summerset" later. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:27, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::It still needs moved back to the plural 'isles'. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:40, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::It's exclusively singular in Arena. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:45, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::It appears so, which may cause problems if an island pages is desired, but that can be dealt with if it happens. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 19:05, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Weird Bug with Battlespire Books ==<br />
<br />
Hello Robin, notice at the bottom of the page the red link for an unused template under the [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Battlespire:A_Short_History_of_The_Augmented_Craftworks&action=edit most recent version]? Do you have any clue what is causing that? --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 01:56, 16 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I was just looking at that, actually. The template's a bit oddly designed, but I'm going to leave it alone for now and just continue the way we were doing things. Silencer had the right idea. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:58, 16 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Book Summary ==<br />
<br />
I've undone your edit to the book summary as it causes the summary to work twice on a page, though only display once. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 14:57, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I'll have a closer look at it. Thanks for letting me know. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:25, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Yup, my fault completely. I goofed on which set of curly brackets went with which. They really need to redesign templates to allow formatting the code more cleanly so mistakes like that are harder to make. I could reinstate the div optimization, but not really worth going back and forth for no actual change in functionality. Whenever I start ''Project: Template Cleanup II'', I'll redo that. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:35, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Conversations ==<br />
<br />
Hey RobinHood70. I’m looking at a strange scene, <code> DialogueFalkreathGrayPineGoodsScene01</code>, and there are four lines of dialogue, for a conversation between [[Skyrim:Bolund|Bolund]] and [[Skyrim:Solaf|Solaf]]. The lines are as follows: <br />
<br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is a fine place to be, Bolund."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Another day in this graveyard."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Falkreath is where people go to die. We could be fighting, taking back Nord land!"''<br><br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is our home, a place where we have good jobs under a good Jarl. Until the war comes to us we stay put."''<br />
<br />
Now, that doesn’t make any sense – can you check the CK and see what order they’re in? Or maybe the convo is bugged? Thanks! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:13, 27 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Why can't all your questions be this easy? ;) The dialogue is just in the wrong order—"Another day..." comes first, then the rest of the lines are in the order you have them. Apart from that, there's absolutely nothing special about this scene at all. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:22, 28 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:: Thanks a lot! Better safe than sorry! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:55, 1 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: Hello again! I need yet another favor, a bit harder and tedious, but important. I ripped all the conversations related to Falkreath’s Dead Man’s Drink, but I have trouble figuring out who says what, in several cases. I have listed them in my [[User:Krusty/Sandbox5|SANDBOX]], and I will be most grateful if you could check the CK and replace the question marks with the proper NPC name. No rush whatsoever, and I hope it’s not too annoying. Best, and thanks in advance, --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:00, 1 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Went ahead an butted in here. Had the CK open already... hope you don't mind!--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 14:19, 2 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Quite the opposite. Thanks, Beezer! That's one less thing for me to do today. :) <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:07, 2 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: Thanks, Beezer - and RH, no more conversations for now! :D --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:47, 2 September 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy&diff=1386956User:Alpha Kenny Buddy2014-09-02T20:45:43Z<p>Krusty: Reverted edits by 184.151.231.86 (talk) to last revision by Alpha Kenny Buddy</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{| style="float: right; border: 1px solid #BBB; margin: .46em 0 0 .2em;"<br />
|- <br />
|{{User Patroller}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Admin}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2010|month=12|day=30}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Loremaster}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Arena|text=This user plays [[Arena:Arena|Arena]], but denies knowing anything about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Daggerfall|text=This user plays [[Daggerfall:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]], but denies knowing anything about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Morrowind|text=This user plays [[Morrowind:Morrowind|Morrowind]], but denies knowing anything about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User TR3|text=This user plays [[TES3Mod:Tamriel Rebuilt|Tamriel Rebuilt:Morrowind]], but knows nothing about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Tribunal|text=This user plays [[Tribunal:Tribunal|Tribunal]], but knows nothing about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Bloodmoon|text=This user plays [[Bloodmoon:Bloodmoon|Bloodmoon]], but knows nothing about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Oblivion|text=This user plays [[Oblivion:Oblivion|Oblivion]], but denies knowing anything about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User ShiveringIsles|text=This user plays [[Shivering:Shivering Isles|The Shivering Isles]], but denies knowing anything about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User KotN|text=This user plays [[Oblivion:Knights of the Nine|Knights of the Nine]], but denies knowing anything about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Frostcrag|text=This user plays the [[Oblivion:Wizard's Tower|Frostcrag Spire]] add-on, but knows nothing about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User HorseArmor|text=This user plays the [[Oblivion:Horse Armor Pack|Horse Armor]] add-on, but knows nothing about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User MehrunesRazor|text=This user plays the [[Oblivion:Mehrunes' Razor|Mehrunes' Razor]] add-on, but knows nothing about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User Orrery|text=This user plays the [[Oblivion:Orrery|Orrery]] add-on, but knows nothing about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User SpellTomes|text=This user plays the [[Oblivion:Spell Tomes|Spell Tomes]] add-on, but knows nothing about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User Stronghold|text=This user plays the [[Oblivion:Fighter's Stronghold|Fighter's Stronghold]] add-on, but knows nothing about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User ThievesDen|text=This user plays the [[Oblivion:Thieves Den|Thieves Den]] add-on, but knows nothing about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User VileLair|text=This user plays the [[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]] add-on, but knows nothing about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User TES4Mod|text=This user uses the [[Oblivion:Construction Set|Construction Set]], but denies knowing anything about it}} <br />
|-<br />
|{{User TR4|text=This user plays [[TES4Mod:Stirk|Stirk]], but denies knowing anything about it}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{User Skyrim|text=This user plays [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]], but denies knowing anything about it.}}<br />
|}<br />
Greetings and salutations! I am [[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|Alpha Kenny Buddy]], but most people just call me AKB due to the uncomfortable length of my full username, among other reasons. I am an [[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrator]] of the UESPWiki as of my successful [[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy/RfA|RfA]], although I already had temporary administrative rights before that to help with the surge in editing brought on by ''[[Skyrim:Skyrim|The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim]]''. Additionally, I am a moderator of the [[UESPWiki:Forums|UESP Forums]] and Administrator of the [[UESPWiki:Blog|UESP Blog]]. Besides my usual administrative duties I also monitor the [[UESPWiki:IRC|chat rooms]] and forums, both under the username "AKB". If you need any help, you can always contact me through my [[User talk:Alpha Kenny Buddy|talk page]] or by [[Special:EmailUser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|email]]. Alternatively, you can also privately message me on the forums, or try to see if I'm in our chat rooms at the moment. On the off chance that you're actually interested in what me and what I do around the UESP, feel free to read on.<br />
<br />
==About==<br />
Like most users, I had used the UESP long before I felt like I was good enough to edit on it. What truly stopped me for the longest time was my platform, however. I was originally an Xbox gamer before I was allowed to dwell amongst the magnificent PC Gaming Master Race. And with a copy of ''[[Oblivion:Oblivion|The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion]]'' for the PC, I decided to take up editing. My first attempt at what has become a bit of a hobby was at filling in the missing information at [[Oblivion:Interior Test Cells]]. From this error filled, but well intentioned start, I slowly spread throughout the rest of the site to various other projects, although I only ever joined two [[UESPWiki:Oblivion_NPC_Redesign_Project|organized]] [[UESPWiki:Shivering_Isles_Redesign_Project|projects]]. After much deliberation on my part, I finally felt that I should join our [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|patroller]] team, and was accepted amongst their ranks following a [[UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations/Completed/2011a#Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|successful self-nomination]].<br />
<br />
Following the announcement of ''Skyrim'', I was made an administrator to help with the rise in activity across the site. People seemed to think I did a good job, so they decided to keep me on as an admin even after the initial job was done. Nowadays I try to help out where I can to ensure the smooth operations of our site.<br />
<br />
==Sandboxes==<br />
<br />
{|Class=wikitable<br />
!Sandbox!!Description<br />
|-<br />
|[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy/Sandbox1|Sandbox1]]||News Story -- On Hold<br />
|-<br />
|[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy/Sandbox2|Sandbox2]]||Empty<br />
|-<br />
|[[User:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy/Sandbox3|Sandbox3]]||Arena Project<br />
|-<br />
|[[User:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy/Sandbox4|Sandbox4]]||Empty<br />
|-<br />
|[[User:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy/Sandbox5|Sandbox5]]||Item Project<br />
|-<br />
|[[User:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy/Sandbox6|Sandbox6]]||Reoccurring Character Project <br />
|-<br />
|[[User:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy/Sandbox7|Sandbox7]]||Haskill Revamp<br />
|-<br />
|[[Lore:Bestiary/Sandbox|Bestiary Sandbox]]||Empty<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Task List==<br />
<br />
{|Class=wikitable<br />
!Task!!Description<br />
|-<br />
|News Overwatch||Remain observant for any possible new stories of interest. Sales and minor stories should be passed onto social sites, bigger news items go to the front page. <br />
|-<br />
|Site Overwatch||Remain observant of activity/various tasks that need doing around UESP.<br />
|-<br />
|Blog Duties||Start to post to the blog in a regular manner, to help bring it to life.<br />
|-<br />
|Items Project||Produce new items pages, per private project.<br />
|-<br />
|NPC Project||Work on some NPC pages, mostly just fun for me, really.<br />
|-<br />
|}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:184.151.231.86&diff=1386955User talk:184.151.231.862014-09-02T20:45:03Z<p>Krusty: /* Blocked */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Advice ==<br />
<br />
Hello and welcome to UESPWiki! Thanks for your interest in the wiki. If you would like to experiment with how to [[Help:Editing|edit]], you may want to try editing in our [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Adding nonsense to UESPWiki articles disrupts those pages and forces other editors to spend time cleaning them up. You may also want to look over our [[UESPWiki:Style_Guide|style guide]] and [[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started guide]]. Feel free to [[UESPWiki:Contact|ask]] if you have any questions. [[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 20:28, 2 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Warning ==<br />
<br />
{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this IP address will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. [[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 20:35, 2 September 2014 (GMT)}}<br />
<br />
== Blocked ==<br />
<br />
{{Blocked|1=This IP address has been '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing UESPWiki for repeatedly [[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalizing]] the site, despite being warned to stop. If you wish to [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks|appeal the block]], you may make your request on your talk page, which you can still edit even while being blocked. —[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:45, 2 September 2014 (GMT)}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=File:SR-interior-East_Empire_Company_Warehouse.jpg&diff=1386706File:SR-interior-East Empire Company Warehouse.jpg2014-09-01T22:30:01Z<p>Krusty: Krusty uploaded a new version of &quot;File:SR-interior-East Empire Company Warehouse.jpg&quot;: brightened for better thumb</p>
<hr />
<div>== Summary ==<br />
[[Category:Skyrim-Interior Images]]<br />
== Licensing ==<br />
{{uespimage}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alphabetface&diff=1386691User talk:Alphabetface2014-09-01T22:04:16Z<p>Krusty: /* Mail */ trying again</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Page Icon|Icon-Email.png|E-mail Alphabetface|Special:EmailUser/Alphabetface|16}}<br />
<br />
== Welcome Back! ==<br />
OMG! OMG! It's Alphabetface! OMG! Errr...I mean...welcome back! :Þ <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 13:48, 20 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
:LOL. Thanks, RH. I don't really know ''how'' back I am, but hi! :) — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 23:06, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Even if you can't spend that much time, it's still just nice seeing you around again ABC! --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 23:34, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Thanks AKB! I do miss it, and hope to be around more, even if it's not much. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 23:52, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::D'oh! I never even noticed I posted this to your user page. That's what you get for making it a redirect. ;) <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:28, 29 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Black-Briar mead ==<br />
<br />
Hiya, Can I ask why you have capitalised the M in mead for Black-Briar mead in Duskglow Crevice, when Nord mead is shown as a small m. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 11:39, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Nord mead is just generic mead, but Black-Brair Mead is a brand name. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 12:14, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Mail ==<br />
<br />
Miss Face, please check your mail. :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:14, 27 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
: Okay, ABC, I’m not getting any mail so I think our usual channel must be down. I just wanted to ask, if you were done with the Maven Black-Briar sandbox, and if you wanted to take a proofy look at my rewrite of [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|Ill Met By Moonlight]]? Thanks! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:04, 1 September 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki_talk:Skyrim_Houses_Redesign_Project&diff=1386689UESPWiki talk:Skyrim Houses Redesign Project2014-09-01T22:00:53Z<p>Krusty: /* Exemplary House? */ reply</p>
<hr />
<div>==A strange member==<br />
Dreamshadow (All Displayed Merchandise sections), a strange member, right? Yeah, I'll be glad to save your coins, so leave the business for me. If your are working on a store page, feel free to check my [[User:Dreamshadow/Sandbox Ding|sandbox]]. I'll finish them as soon as possible. Feel free to make any requests if you need any related information in a hurry or just tell me which page should be written in advance to meet your need. I'll write some complete pages sometime, if I think my English is ok for me to start a new page. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 23:48, 21 April 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== I would like to help...but ==<br />
<br />
Hey fellow UESP members, I would love to help with the Oblivion and Skyrim projects. But I am awful with all the computer commands and things like that for this website could someone send me a message stating all the basics? Thanks [[User:AlphaArgonian182|AlphaArgonian182]]<br />
:Hi AlphaArgonian! The [[Help:Contents|help]] pages contain plenty of useful information to help get you started, including how to [[Help:Editing Pages|edit pages]], how to use [[Help:Formatting|wiki formatting]] and [[Help:Quick Editing Guide|markup]], and our in-depth [[UESPWiki:Style Guide|style guide]]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact a [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentor]]. Thanks! <font color="#2187A3">&#8672;</font>[[User:Eshe|<font color="#756651">eshe</font>]]<sup><small>'''[[User talk:Eshe|<font color="#A32E1F">talk</font>]]'''</small></sup> 14:31, 29 April 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== When will it be moved to needs to be checked ==<br />
<br />
I have edited the page about the hunters rest, but when will it move to the next stage? {{Uns2|21:25, 23 April 2013|SergeantPAIN703}}<br />
<br />
:It did once you moved your name from <code>checkedby</code> to <code>writtenby</code>. It moved from "...Needing Cleanup" to "...Needing Checking". <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:44, 23 April 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Template ==<br />
<br />
I have created a new SHRP notice template that I propose be used in place of the current one. My new template is located [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/Sandbox2|here]] on the top half of the page. For reference I have put the current template on the bottom. --[[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 21:41, 23 April 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Hey there. Let me explain why I created the current template. First of all, many people complain that the project tags are too huge and overcomplicated when it is quite simple to click a link and see what you are supposed to do. Second, I limited the process of the SHRP to two stages only (writing and checking) so there's no real need for a big template - it's a very simple project actually and a giant tag would be a bit... weird, for lack of a better word. I understand where you are coming from, but smaller tags = more visible articles, especially when the project is so simple. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:49, 23 April 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Crops? ==<br />
<br />
Hey everybody! As part of the SHRP we need to list all the crops that belongs to the numerous farms (and some houses) in Skyrim and Solstheim. Since it’s a bit tedious to run around and count crops, I was wondering if it was easier in the CK? If anybody can have a look, I would be most grateful. If possible, a project sub-page like '''[[UESPWiki:Skyrim_Houses_Redesign_Project/Displayed_Merchandise|this]]''' would be the niftiest thing in the world! Thanks in advance! ☺--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 09:58, 17 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Sounds good, I think I've got another chance to show my membership in this lovely project. Yeah, I'd like to finish this work in-game. Maybe a well-formatted example would be welcome for me. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 11:36, 17 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
:: Brilliant! I'll get busy right away. I'll hit you on your talk page when I'm done. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 12:16, 17 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
::: The CK would definitely make it easier. The only trick will be to make sure you look at any adjoining cells as well if a farm/whatever spans more than one cell. Glad to hear someone's on this already, though, cuz I seem to be down for the count atm. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 17:00, 18 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::: Hey RH! A very belated response, but I had to figure out how to sort them – and it resulted in [[User_talk:RobinHood70#Land_of_Confusion|more confusion]]. However, I have a question. In your post above, you’re saying something about ''"making sure you look at any adjoining cells as well if a farm/whatever spans more than one cell"''. Now, I’m no CK expert – and both Dreamshadow and myself use cslist for data. I would, however, ask if it was somewhat possible to extract a list of houses that has “crops” attached to them - from the CK? With crops I mean all the usual ones (like wheat and cabbage and what have we), but also eggs, and maybe even animals? If it is possible to create such a list we would have something to work from – and it would make it easier to make a decision. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:12, 28 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
::::: I can't think of an easy way to list them, no. When you're talking about interiors, it's easy, because each interior has a clear "parent" location. With exteriors, there's no such "parent"—you'd literally have to double-click on each farm/house and then count the relevant plants that are in that cell or close to it. I don't think I've got what I'd need to in the bot, either, and even if I did, it'd be pure guesswork as to whether a plant near a farm/house actually belonged to it or just happened to be in a nearby area. If someone's got a better suggestion of how to go about it, I'm all ears, but I think we're looking at doing this one by-hand. In retrospect, even with the CK, it's dubious whether you're getting much benefit over in-game. In-game, you just run around and count things. In the CK, you have to check nearby cells as separate things from the cell the house/farm is in, though your count may be slightly faster and probably more accurate. Either way, it's going to be a ''lot'' of work for very little benefit, I think. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 02:09, 29 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::::: I see. So basically, we’re looking at categorizing the farm houses somehow (back to the Land of Confusion post on your talk) to get a list of where to look. Since a task like that is overwhelming in-game (the counting of crops in a given location is not a problem), can you think of a way to somehow get all farmhouses categorized - or maybe just a way to compile a list? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 07:09, 29 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
::::::: From my point of view, it wouldn't be much trouble to get the list and count them in game. In fact, I've made a list [[User:Dreamshadow/Sandbox_Ding|here]], a full list with nearly every possible location. However, it may be really difficult to get them in CK. After all, we need not only crops, but also eggs and ingredients near the house. The counting work would be easy in game. Just remove every food and ingredient in your inventory, travel to a house, collect every plant and egg, check your inventory, then eat all of them and move to next place... [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 07:54, 29 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
::::::: '''Update''': An example can be found [[User:Dreamshadow/Sandbox_Ding#Example|here]] (never mind, wrong data, just an example). Any ideas?<br />
{{od}} Just looking for what the CK considers to be farms, I found 17, and all of them had "farm" in the location name. Since there was nothing unusual there, I just did a search in the bot's database for anything with "farm" in the name, and got a few more. Of course, there could be other locations that don't include the word "farm". I seem to recall several houses and the like include a small garden of crops as well, though I can't think of any specifically right at the moment. Anyway, here are the more obvious farms for starters.<br />
{| class="wikitable vtop"<br />
|<br />
[[Skyrim:Battle-Born Farm|Battle-Born Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Brandy-Mug Farm|Brandy-Mug Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Chillfurrow Farm|Chillfurrow Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Cowflop Farmhouse|Cowflop Farmhouse]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Dragon Bridge Farm|Dragon Bridge Farm]]<br />
|<br />
[[Skyrim:Hlaalu Farm|Hlaalu Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Hollyfrost Farm|Hollyfrost Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Ivarstead Fellstar Farm|Ivarstead Fellstar Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Katla's Farm|Katla's Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Lemkil's Farmhouse|Lemkil's Farmhouse]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Loreius Farm|Loreius Farm]]<br />
|<br />
[[Skyrim:Merryfair Farm|Merryfair Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Pelagia Farm|Pelagia Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Salvius Farm|Salvius Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Sarethi Farm|Sarethi Farm]]<br><br />
[[Skyrim:Snow-Shod Farm|Snow-Shod Farm]]<br />
|<br />
[[Dragonborn:Old Attius Farm|Old Attius Farm]]<br><br />
[[Dragonborn:Ienth Farm|Ienth Farm]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
There are references to a couple of other farms in the CK (Barleydark Farm and Frost River Farm), but looking at those locations in the CK, I see no farms there at all. I suspect they were removed or never developed. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 02:17, 30 May 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Residents ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that headers for Skyrim houses have been changed from "NPCs Living Here" to "Residents" on a number of pages, such as {{Pl|Skyrim:Ogmund's House|diff=1246022&oldid=1245941|here}} and {{Pl|Skyrim:Temple of Dibella|diff=1246489&oldid=1246379|here}}. Is there some discussion and consensus about this somewhere, because I can't find any. From what I know, ever since I joined this wiki a year ago, I have been closely following the [[UESPWiki:Style Guide/Place Layout|style guide]] and using the "NPCs Living Here" header (which has been there {{Pl|UESPWiki:Style Guide/Place Layout|oldid=739211|since Nov 2011}}).<br />
<br />
Last year, I remember going through a lot of pages and changing headers on various Skyrim pages (not just houses; possibly forts, camps, caves, mines etc too) so that the headers all say "NPCs Living Here" and are consistent across the wiki. I can't really put an exact number on it; I probably changed around 200-300 pages. Now, a lot of those headers have been changed again. <br />
<br />
However, even Oblivion pages (which I never touch) follow this style guide: {{LinkList|ns_base=Oblivion|Aleswell|Applewatch|Blankenmarch|Bleaker's Way|Border Watch|Brindle Home}} are some examples; I didn't browse through Morrowind, though those pages probably follow the style guide too. There are a lot of Skyrim pages that still follow the style guide too: {{LinkList|ns_base=Skyrim|Amren's House|Belethor's General Goods|Carlotta Valentia's House|Hall of the Dead (Whiterun)|Temple of Kynareth}} are some examples.<br />
<br />
I'm not sure why this style suddenly changed—which curiously applies only to Skyrim houses—and I can't find any discussion about it. I strongly suggest the SHRP follow the style guide which has been there since 2011, and also to be consistent with many other Skyrim places, as well as to be consistent across all other namespaces. Also, it looks a little weird that the second-tier header is called "Residents", and the table header is again called "Residents". If you disagree, then a discussion should be started on the style guide page about changing the "NPCs Living Here" to "Residents" across the wiki. ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 03:14, 17 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I brought this up on the [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal/Archive_37#.22Residents.22_vs._.22NPCs_Living_Here.22|Community Portal]] not too long ago with no consensus. I personally support '''Residents''' as opposed to '''NPCs Living Here''', but this is my opinion. If we can come to a conclusion this time, that'd be wonderful. :) [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 03:51, 17 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Just a quick note, but from what I can see and have emulated in the few house pages I have done, the [[UESPWiki:OBHRP|OBHRP]] is using the "Residents" header as well (take [[Oblivion:Heinrich Oaken-Hull's House|Heinrich Oaken-Hull's House]], which is listed as an example on the project page). I really don't have a preference on which is used, but thought I should point out that this project seems to be leaning toward using the "Residents" header instead of "NPCs Living Here", meaning this trend isn't specific to just this project. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 03:59, 17 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks for the link; I didn't search archived pages. So I see there was a small discussion on the CP, which leans towards using "NPCs Living Here". Anyway, the OBHRP is created by Helenaannevalentine on {{Pl|UESPWiki:Oblivion Houses Redesign Project|oldid=1176189|April 2013}}. I don't dab into Oblivion pages at all, but I suggest the OB project follow the style guide as well. ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 04:13, 17 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::I really don't know if the OB pages should conform. I guess it depends on how many of the project pages already use '''Residents''' or '''NPCs Living Here''' and/or an executive decision from the leader of the project. Since Hel is gone, however, this is a bit of an issue because the [[UESPWiki:Oblivion Houses Redesign Project|OBHRP]] doesn't have a leader (an entirely different issue for another discussion). [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 04:26, 17 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::It isn't a matter of how many are already using "Residents", the issue I'm bringing up here is that those that are already using "Residents" be changed to "NPCs Living Here" in accordance with the style guide, which has been around for 3 years, and which I—or rather all editors—closely adhere to.<br />
<br />
:::::I can see now that this recent shift in style was due to the creation of the two projects on houses, both created in April 2013. I'm guessing that the style guide was not consulted when coming up with a layout for houses, and that this change in the layout was not mentioned anywhere in the project page, nor was it grounded into a policy or guideline. The project members identified certain pages to be completed "examples" for other editors to emulate, hence resulting in inconsistencies across the wiki. The purpose of this discussion is to restore that consistency; if there is a move to change the policy, then "a discussion should be started on the style guide page about changing the "NPCs Living Here" to "Residents" across the wiki", which is what I mentioned above. ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 04:50, 17 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
{{od}} I can’t speak for the OB House Project, but I do know that one of the goals of the SRHRP was to get rid of the “NPCs Living Here”-headers. I personally can’t stand the use of the abbreviation ‘NPC’ in articles, as it sounds like game data more than a description of the vibrant world we are trying to document. I also realize that I need to update the project guidelines (not only with the required ‘Residents’ header, but with some other info as well), but will refer from doing so until this discussion is over. Looking through a few house pages in the OB namespace, specifically a few hand-picked ones in [[Oblivion:Anvil|Anvil]], it is also quite clear that the pages written for the OBHRP uses the expression ‘Residents’ – with very good reason, in my opinion. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 05:32, 17 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:As I said in the CP discussion, I'm indifferent to which is used, but I think it's important that the style guide be updated accordingly. There are various aspects of wikis which change over time, and that's okay. If the standard practice is to use 'Residents' and there's a significant reason to do so, then we should update our guideline page to reflect that. IMO, the house projects, being more recent than the guideline page, are a better indicator of what we should be doing, so that particular part of the style guide should be changed. I can go ahead and do so later today if no one has any strong opposition to this. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 13:47, 17 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
::Okay, true, fair enough. I agree that the wiki changes over time, and I remember arguing with 3 administrators about my layout for my Delphine article, but I'm still not convinced here; maybe we can come to a compromise here too. You and Krusty said that there is "a significant reason to do so" and there is a "very good reason", respectively, but didn't say what they are explicitly. Well, I explained my concerns and reasons above to stick with the current style guide; let's hear yours. ~ [[User:Psylocke|<b><font color="550066">P</font><font color="660099">sy</font><font color="6600AA">l</font><font color="6600CC">o</font><font color="7700CC">c</font><font color="8800EE">k</font><font color="AA00DD">e</font></b>]] 02:26, 18 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::Personally I prefer residents, but that is for asthetic reasons (i think it looks neater than NPC living here), but all I want is to know which it should be as the SHRP guidelines tell me to use residents. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 21:01, 21 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
:::: I'm pretty sure I stated my reasons above, but let me try again: The OBNPCRP was originally made to personalize NPCs and get rid of the game data-like phrasing like 'npc', 'schedule', 'inventory' and so on. It's pretty much the same with the other projects - as a basic rule, they are not to be treated as 'NPCs', they are treated like 'persons'. I know it sounds a bit silly, but that is what the NPC project was all about, and I kind of like it that way. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:15, 21 October 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== A very dumb question ==<br />
<br />
I know this is a bad question, but how do I join?--[[User:Thrapple|Thrapple]] ([[User talk:Thrapple|talk]]) 19:22, 22 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
: Just write your name on the bottom of the Project Members List. --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 19:35, 22 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Uh-oh ==<br />
<br />
Is it just me, or is the ribbon at the bottom of the page missing?--[[User:Thrapple|Thrapple]] ([[User talk:Thrapple|talk]]) 17:47, 23 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
:It didn't appear for me, but after purging the page it reappeared for me. Hopefully you should be able to see it now. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 18:18, 23 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
::It did, thanks!--[[User:Thrapple|Thrapple]] ([[User talk:Thrapple|talk]]) 18:20, 23 December 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Accuracy ==<br />
<br />
Currently the guidelines tells editors to "List everything that you see". The problem with this is, that items in the open in Skyrim are often from a leveled list, plain random or only enabled under certain conditions. A simplistic approach like this will leave much work to the checking phase. I currently see no CK checking project member, so inaccurate information will be on the page for a long time. There are several ways to arrive at a more accurate list of items, but they are time consuming and it would be good to curb some inaccuracy right at the beginning, instead of leaving it all to the checking phase. Methods I can think of:<br />
<br />
* CK, as mentioned<br />
* enter the house twice, with radically different PCs, that should catch most random stuff<br />
* if on the PC, click on the item in the console, then look up the resulting ID on CSList<br />
* I'm currently experimenting with a tool listing all items in a cell [http://dev.uesp.net/oblivion/tesdata/index.php?game=Skyrim&search=SolitudeAngelinesAromatics&format=more example]. But the list is long and would need filtering. Anyway, the problem will be associating the items you see with an item on that list, but it at least alerts you that there are dummy items (those which will end up being from a leveled list).<br />
<br />
Anyway, I think it would be good to give a warning at the guideline that things you see may be random, newer editors may not be aware of this. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 16:40, 16 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I actually did use CK for a couple of edits, to check contents of containers using the Edit Base function, and noting which items may randomly occur. Am I reading or notating it incorrectly?--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 12:18, 17 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::My main concern with the current directives is, that it leads to well meaning editors to add inaccurate data. Anyway, the whole thing is tricky (hence the CP question, are we really prepared to do all this checking?). Taking [[Skyrim:Whitewatch Tower|Whitewatch Tower]] as an example. The {{CSList|game=SR|formid=000fc86a|dummy sword}} could not be easily found via the CK, since it is not in the WhitewatchTowerExterior01 cell, but in the encompassing persistent Skyrim cell. The {{CSList|game=SR|formid=000dc2c4|Imperial sword}} not being enabled all the time is not easy to spot in the CK, it would need checking the enable parent tab. Documenting chest contents properly ({{CSList|game=SR|formid=000dc2c7|chest1}}, {{CSList|game=SR|formid=000f18d6|chest2}}) is more difficult, ideally we would link to some page describing them, instead of trying to do it on every place page. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 13:09, 17 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Understood. Do you have any suggestions or recommendations for me then?--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 15:14, 17 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::The gist is, that one probably really needs to check every item described on a page (well, food in the open is usually not random in my experience). Ideally a method to arrive at accurate results would be built in the project, and the checking phase really that, and not a need to rewrite large parts.<br />
::::Anyway, personally I find getting the ID of an item via console and then looking that ID up (add 0x) in CSList the most useful method. But one has to get used to the notation used there first, and if you have to tab out of your game to do it, it may be getting quickly annoying. And of course it won't detect items that may be there under some conditions, but currently aren't. For that the CK is probably best, but there the mapping between the items seen in the CK and in-game isn't totally trivial. Then again, most houses aren't that complex, having usually only a few leveled items and not changing depending on some condition at all.<br />
::::For chest contents, if it is a unique chest, a format like at [[Skyrim:Dragon#Loot]] may work best (but probably inline). With chests found at several places (like all those barrels), they should be documented elsewhere and linked too, if we want to go into details. Or maybe have fewer details (exact chance needed?) on them (but just describing some of the possible items seems wrong to me).--[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 16:29, 17 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{OD}} I didn't think listing contents of barrel, furniture or random chests, etc happened as the content is randomised? There are a few generally connected to a quest where certain item(s) will always be present. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 23:07, 17 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Addvar's House ==<br />
<br />
I wasn't sure where to post this. Addvar's House has been checked by yours truly and it looks like everything is correct. I will be checking the others soon. [[User:Tandil|Tandil, Master of Restoration]] ([[User talk:Tandil|talk]]) 20:02, 29 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:You don't need to post anywhere that a page has been checked. Addvar's house has already been checked unless you mean the final review, in which case only a project leader can do that and we won't be doing that until most houses are in it. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 20:34, 29 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Exemplary House? ==<br />
<br />
The standards are very thorough, but is there a current house page that one could visit to see the best examples of the features and qualities that are the goals of the project? [[User:Kalevala|Kalevala]] ([[User talk:Kalevala|talk]]) 21:00, 1 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
: There are a few examples ''[[UESPWiki:Skyrim_Houses_Redesign_Project#Examples|here]]''. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:00, 1 September 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Grave_Concoctions&diff=1386687Skyrim:Grave Concoctions2014-09-01T21:40:47Z<p>Krusty: /* Notes */ unneeded</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-shrp<br />
|writtenby=Biffa<br />
|checkedby=<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Place Summary<br />
|type=Store<br />
|zones=1<br />
|image=SR-place-Grave Concoctions.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Grave Concoctions in Falkreath<br />
|region=Falkreath Hold<br />
|description=a store in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]] specializing in [[Skyrim:Alchemy|alchemy]] and home for [[Skyrim:Zaria|Zaria]] who runs the store.<br />
|locationcode=FalkreathGraveConcoctions<br />
|city=Falkreath<br />
|alchemy=1<br />
|treasure=''[[Skyrim:De Rerum Dirennis|De Rerum Dirennis]]''<br />
|prop=[[Skyrim:Zaria|Zaria]]<br />
|buys=Apothecary ([[Skyrim:Animal Parts|Animal Parts]], [[Skyrim:Food|Food]], [[Skyrim:Ingredients|Ingredients]], [[Skyrim:Poisons|Poisons]], [[Skyrim:Potions|Potions]], [[Skyrim:Raw Food|Raw Food]], [[Skyrim:Recipes|Recipes]])<br />
|gold=500 (+1000 [[Skyrim:Master Trader|Master Trader]])<br />
|sells=See [[#Standard Merchandise|Standard Merchandise]]<br />
}}[[File:SR-interior-Grave Concoctions.jpg|right|thumb|Grave Concoctions]]<br />
It is found between [[Skyrim:Lod's House|Lod's House]] and [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]], opposite the [[Skyrim:Jarl's Longhouse (Falkreath)|Jarl's Longhouse]].<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
== Residents ==<br />
{| class="wikitable" width="130px"<br />
!Residents<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
;[[Skyrim:Zaria|Zaria]] {{Service Icon|Alchemist}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Related Quests ==<br />
* {{Quest Link|Alchemy Tutorial}}<br />
<br />
== Walkthrough ==<br />
<br />
=== Exterior ===<br />
There is a wooden bench in front of the house and a patch of [[Skyrim:Fly Amanita|fly amanita]] muhroon growing to the right. It is difficult entering with [[Skyrim:Stealth|stealth]] due to a [[Skyrim:Falkreath Guard|guard]] being posted opposite outside the Jarl's Longhouse.<br />
<br />
=== ''{{LE|Grave Concoctions}}'' ===<br />
It is run by [[Skyrim:Zaria|Zaria]], a [[Skyrim:Redguard|Redguard]] immigrant that moved here to explore her love of [[Skyrim:Poison|poisons]]. The store's name honors the large cemetery, a tradition shared by many of the businesses in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], such as [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]] and [[Skyrim:Dead Man's Drink|Dead Man's Drink]]. Although she always comments on the name, showing concern that it might put you off.<br />
<br />
Upon entering, the counter is immediately on your left, on which there is a bottle of [[Skyrim:Alto Wine|alto wine]], a bottle of [[Skyrim:Wine|wine]], a large [[Skyrim:Coin Purse|coin purse]] and several [[Skyrim:Potions|potions]] that can be bought or stolen, while under the counter is a copy of ''[[Skyrim:On the Great Collapse|On the Great Collapse]]'' and a [[Skyrim:Giant's Toe|giant toe]]. Behind the counter in the southwestern corner of the building is an [[Skyrim:Alchemy Lab|alchemy lab]] and [[Skyrim:Food|food]] barrel, which is where Zaira normally spends her time making [[Skyrim:Poison|poisons]] and potions. Beside the lab is a basket containing a sample of [[Skyrim:Fly Amanita|fly amanita]] and against the east wall a cupboard holding several potions and [[Skyrim:Ingredients|ingredients]] that she sells and a [[Skyrim:Gourd|gourd]]. Hanging from the ceiling above the cupboard are two [[Skyrim:Garlic|garlic]] braids, a bunch of [[Skyrim:Elves Ear|elves ear]] and a bunch of [[Skyrim:Frost Mirriam|frost mirriam]]. Opposite the door is a fireplace with several barrels containing ingredients to the left. On the hearth is a [[Skyrim:Woodcutter's Axe|woodcutter's axe]] and on the mantelpiece there a couple of poisons and a potions on display. <br />
<br />
To the right of the fire is another cupboard, above this are three more bunches of elves ear and two more of frost mirriam. The cupboard only holds cutter. To the right of the cupboard obscured by baskets is a copy of the [[Skyrim:Alchemy|Alchemy]] [[Skyrim:Skill Books|skill book]] ''[[Skyrim:De Rerum Dirennis|De Rerum Dirennis]]''. Coming out from the middle of the west wall is an owned single bed, with an end table to the left and a dresser to the right. On the end table is a bottle of alto wine and one of wine. While on the dresser is a [[Skyrim:Steel Mace|steel mace]]. To the right against the north wall is an unlocked [[Skyrim:Chest|chest]] containing minor loot. To the right of this is a round wooden table and two chairs holding two bottles; one of alto wine and the other wine and a loaf of [[Skyrim:Bread|bread]]. <br />
<br />
== Displayed Merchandise ==<br />
The following items are sitting out in the store, on counters and the like. They can be purchased from the merchant or stolen. Other items may also be present in the store, but those other items are not available for purchase. They [[Skyrim:Respawning|respawn]] after ten days.<br />
* Ingredients: 6 [[Skyrim:Deathbell|Deathbell]], 1 [[Skyrim:Fire Salts|Fire Salts]], 1 Fly Amanita, 3 [[Skyrim:Frost Salts|Frost Salts]], 1 Giant's Toe, 6 [[Skyrim:Hagraven Claw|Hagraven Claw]], 1 [[Skyrim:Hagraven Feathers|Hagraven Feathers]], 1 [[Skyrim:Ice Wraith Teeth|Ice Wraith Teeth]], 1 [[Skyrim:Jazbay Grapes|Jazbay Grapes]], 5 [[Skyrim:Rock Warbler Egg|Rock Warbler Egg]], 2 [[Skyrim:Salt Pile|Salt Pile]], 1 [[Skyrim:Scaly Pholiota|Scaly Pholiota]], 1 [[Skyrim:Spriggan Sap|Spriggan Sap]], 1 [[Skyrim:Taproot|Taproot]], 1 [[Skyrim:Troll Fat|Troll Fat]]<br />
* Poisons: 1 [[Skyrim:Weak Fear Poison|Weak Fear Poison]], 1 [[Skyrim:Weak Poison|Weak Poison]]<br />
* Potions: 1 [[Skyrim:Conjurer's Potion|Conjurer's Potion]], 1 [[Skyrim:Draught of Health|Draught of Health]], 1 [[Skyrim:Potion of Brief Invisibility|Potion of Brief Invisibility]], 1 [[Skyrim:Potion of Cure Disease|Potion of Cure Disease]], 1 [[Skyrim:Potion of Extra Magicka|Potion of Extra Magicka]], 1 [[Skyrim:Potion of Health|Potion of Health]], 2 [[Skyrim:Potion of Minor Healing|Potion of Minor Healing]], 1 [[Skyrim:Potion of Plentiful Stamina|Potion of Plentiful Stamina]], 1 [[Skyrim:Potion of Stamina|Potion of Stamina]], 1 [[Skyrim:Potion of True Shot|Potion of True Shot]], 1 [[Skyrim:Solution of Lasting Potency|Solution of Lasting Potency]]<br />
<br />
== Standard Merchandise ==<br />
This is the merchandise found in Grave Concoction's [[Skyrim:Merchant Chest|Merchant Chest]]. These items are only available if purchased from the merchant; they cannot be [[Skyrim:Pickpocket|pickpocketed]] or stolen. They are [[Skyrim:Respawning|restocked]] every two days.<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Count !! Item !! Details<br />
|-<br />
| 3 || [[Skyrim:Blisterwort|Blisterwort]] || <br />
|-<br />
| ~11 || Common [[Skyrim:Ingredients|Ingredients]] || Max 15 (15@75%)<br />
|-<br />
| 1 || Common [[Skyrim:Recipes|Recipes]] || <br />
|-<br />
| ~8 || Leveled Fortify Skill Potions || Max 10 (10@75%)<br />
|-<br />
| ~13 || Leveled Healing Potions || Max 15 (10@75% + 5@100%)<br />
|-<br />
| ~8 || Leveled Other Potions || Max 10 (10@75%)<br />
|-<br />
| ~8 || Leveled Resist Element Potions || Max 10 (10@75%)<br />
|-<br />
| ~8 || Leveled Poisons || Max 10 (10@75%)<br />
|-<br />
| ~1 || Poison Recipes || Max 1 (1@50%)<br />
|-<br />
| 1 || Potion of Cure Disease || <br />
|-<br />
| ~4 || Rare Ingredients || Max 5 (5@75%)<br />
|-<br />
| ~1 || Rare Recipes || Max 1 (1@50%)<br />
|-<br />
| 1 || Salt Pile || <br />
|-<br />
| ~8 || Uncommon Ingredients || Max 10 (10@75%)<br />
|-<br />
| 3 || [[Skyrim:Wheat|Wheat]] || <br />
|}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Valga_Vinicia&diff=1386686Skyrim:Valga Vinicia2014-09-01T21:27:36Z<p>Krusty: moved unused convo to notes</p>
<hr />
<div>{{NPC Summary<br />
|essential=<br />
|race=Imperial<br />
|gender=Female<br />
|class=Food Vendor<br />
|faction={{Faction|CrimeFactionFalkreath}}; {{Faction|Dead Mans Drink}}; {{Faction|FalkreathDeadMansDrinkFaction}}; {{Faction|TownFalkreathFaction}}<br />
|refid=0003A198<br />
|baseid=00013655<br />
|image=SR-npc-Valga Vinicia.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Valga Vinicia tending the bar at Dead Man's Drink<br />
|buys=Innkeeper ([[Skyrim:Food|Food]], [[Skyrim:Raw Food|Raw Food]])<br />
|city=[[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]<br />
|gold=100<br />
|sells=See [[Skyrim:Dead Man's Drink#Standard Merchandise|Dead Man's Drink]]<br />
|store=[[Skyrim:Dead Man's Drink|Dead Man's Drink]]<br />
|skills=[[Skyrim:Restoration|Restoration]]<br />
|aggress=Unaggressive<br />
|level=4<br />
|moral=No Crime<br />
|health=75<br />
|magicka=60<br />
|stamina=60<br />
|voicetype=FemaleCommoner<br />
}}<br />
'''Valga Vinicia''' is an [[Skyrim:Imperial|Imperial]] and publican of the [[Skyrim:Dead Man's Drink|Dead Man's Drink]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. She has 100 gold available to barter with and buys food.<br />
<br />
She wears a set of barkeep [[Skyrim:Clothing#0005b6a1|clothes]] and a pair of [[Skyrim:Clothing#0005b6a0|shoes]]. She is equipped with an [[Skyrim:Iron Dagger|iron dagger]], and carries a [[Skyrim:Key to The Dead Man's Drink|key]] to the inn as well as a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled Lists#Common|common loot and gold]].<br />
<br />
When you talk to her she will greet you with, ''"Welcome to Dead Man's Drink."'' Talking to her further will cause her to reveal some details about her rather eventful life, saying, ''"I escaped fighting in [[Lore:Cyrodiil|Cyrodiil]] only to have it track me down again in Skyrim."'', ''"In Falkreath if I don't know it, it's not worth knowing."'', and ''"I wouldn't complain if we could string together a few sunny days now and then."'' When you ask her where you can learn more about magic, she'll say, ''"The people of Skyrim don't like magic much, so about the only place you're likely to find a teacher is the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]]."'' When exiting conversation, she'll say, ''"You hear any juicy gossip in town, be sure to share it with me!"'' or ''"I'll be right here if you need anything else."''<br />
<br />
She can often be seen conversing with other Falkreath citizens:<br />
<br />
'''[[Skyrim:Narri|Narri]]''': ''"At some point we should hire [[Skyrim:Tekla|Tekla]] on here. If she could just spend less time serving [[Skyrim:Dengeir of Stuhn|Dengeir]]..."''<br><br />
'''Valga''': ''"I wish I could afford to pay you both, Narri. I really do."''<br />
<br />
'''Valga''': ''"Tekla! It's good to see you, girl. How's Dengeir treating you?"''<br><br />
'''Tekla''': ''"As he should I suppose."''<br><br />
'''Valga''': ''"Hmmm, well don't take what you don't have to."''<br />
<br />
'''[[Skyrim:Solaf|Solaf]]''': ''"Keep them coming and keep them strong, Valga."''<br><br />
'''Valga''': ''"Will do."''<br />
<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
==Notes==<br />
* Valga belongs to the [[Skyrim:Food Vendor|food vendor class]], which determines the level of her skills.<br />
* Valga was also supposed to have a conversation with local apothecary, [[Skyrim:Zaria|Zaria]]. However, Zaria never leaves [[Skyrim:Grave Concoctions|Grave Concoctions]] so the conversation will never be heard: <br />
:'''Zaria''': ''"The way this war is going you'll soon have plenty of veterans like me to buy drinks."''<br><br />
:'''Valga''': ''"The way this war is going there might not be anyone left to drink soon."''</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Zaria&diff=1386685Skyrim:Zaria2014-09-01T21:23:56Z<p>Krusty: /* Notes */ + unused convo</p>
<hr />
<div>{{NPC Summary<br />
|essential=yes<br />
|race=Redguard<br />
|gender=Female<br />
|class=[[Skyrim:Warrior (class)|Warrior]]<br />
|faction={{Faction|CrimeFactionFalkreath}}; {{Faction|FalkreathGraveConcoctionsFaction}}; {{Faction|JobHousecarlFaction}}; {{Faction|JobLumberjackFaction}}; {{Faction|JobMerchantFaction}}; {{Faction|ServicesFalkreathGraveConcoctions}}; {{Faction|TownFalkreathFaction}}<br />
|refid=0003A19B<br />
|baseid=0003A19A<br />
|image=SR-npc-Zaria.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Zaria<br />
|buys=Apothecary ([[Skyrim:Animal Parts|Animal Parts]], [[Skyrim:Food|Food]], [[Skyrim:Ingredients|Ingredients]], [[Skyrim:Poisons|Poisons]], [[Skyrim:Potions|Potions]], [[Skyrim:Raw Food|Raw Food]], [[Skyrim:Recipes|Recipes]])<br />
|city=[[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]<br />
|gold=500 (+1000 [[Skyrim:Master Trader|Master Trader]])<br />
|sells=See [[Skyrim:Grave Concoctions#Standard Merchandise|Grave Concoctions]]<br />
|store=[[Skyrim:Grave Concoctions|Grave Concoctions]]<br />
|class_details=[[Skyrim:CombatWarrior1H|CombatWarrior1H]]<br />
|aggress=Aggressive<br />
|level=5<br />
|moral=No Crime<br />
|health=50<br />
|magicka=50<br />
|stamina=50<br />
|voicetype=FemaleCommander<br />
}}<br />
'''Zaria''' is a [[Skyrim:Redguard|Redguard]] who immigrated to [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]] in order to explore her passion for [[Skyrim:Poison|poisons]] more freely. She fell in love with [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]] and named her store [[Skyrim:Grave Concoctions|Grave Concoctions]], where she also lives.<br />
<br />
She wakes up at 8am and opens her store. During this time, she can sometimes be found mixing some potions behind the counter. At 8pm she closes her store and spends the evening relaxing until midnight, when she heads to bed.<br />
<br />
She wears a set of merchant [[Skyrim:Clothes#0004223c|clothes]], a pair of [[Skyrim:Boots#0004223d|boots]], and a [[Skyrim:Hat#0004223b|hat]]. She is equipped with an [[Skyrim:Iron Dagger|iron dagger]], and carries a [[Skyrim:Key to Grave Concoctions|key]] to her store, and a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled Lists#Common|common items and gold]].<br />
<br />
When approached, Zaria will greet you with things like ''"Someone new, perhaps someone looking for me to mix something up for them?"'', ''"Don't let the shop's name frighten you away. I have plenty of reliable tonics and healing potions to sell."'', ''"Falkreath's warriors always return, one way or another."'', and ''"If either these [[Skyrim:Nord|Nords]] or [[Skyrim:Imperial|Imperials]] had some red in their blood this war would be over."'' When you are browsing her store, she may politely say, ''"Call upon me if I can be of any service."'' or ''"Browse as much as you like, please."''<br />
<br />
If you ask her why she named her store as such, she will give you an explanation: ''"I know it's a bit strange. Not exactly a name to bring comfort to the sick and ailing who come to buy a poultice or salve. But what you must understand about Falkreath is that our town is defined, for better or {{Sic|wrose|worse}}, by the large and ancient cemetery here. That's why the inn is called [[Skyrim:Dead Man's Drink|Dead Man's Drink]], the farm is called [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]], and so on. I suppose it's sort of a running joke."''<br />
<br />
Asking her what brought her here will have her reply, ''"Well, my family back in Hammerfell didn't approve of my interest in lethal poisons and death in general. So I left, and wandered north. When I found this town, with its huge cemetery, I felt right at home. I opened the shop and I've never looked back. This is where I belong."''<br />
<br />
== Related Quests ==<br />
* {{Quest Link|Alchemy Tutorial}}<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
* Zaria is a member of the [[SR:CombatWarrior1H|warrior]] class, which determines the level of her skills.<br />
* There is an unused conversation between [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and Zaria set to take place in Dead Man's Drink. However, Zaria never goes there, so it can not normally be heard:<br />
:'''Mathies''': ''"Do you ever get tired of long nights at the mill, Zaria?"''<br><br />
:'''Zaria''': ''"Do you ever get tired of the long days on the farm, {{sic|Mathias|Mathies}}?"''<br><br />
:'''Mathies''': ''"Yes, yes I do."''<br />
* Another unused conversation would have been with innkeeper [[Skyrim: Valga_Vinicia|Valga Vinicia]]: <br />
:'''[[Skyrim:Zaria|Zaria]]''': ''"The way this war is going you'll soon have plenty of veterans like me to buy drinks."''<br><br />
:'''Valga''': ''"The way this war is going there might not be anyone left to drink soon."''</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:RobinHood70&diff=1386681User talk:RobinHood702014-09-01T21:00:09Z<p>Krusty: /* Conversations */ another question</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ {{SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/MOTD}}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{/StdHeader}}<br />
<br />
== Axius! ==<br />
<br />
Hey RobinHood70! I know you are under the weather, and here’s hoping for a speedy recovery. I have a few questions about one [[Skyrim:Bassianus Axius|Bassianus Axius]], for now stashed away in my sandbox [[User:Krusty/Sandbox6|here]]. First, I can’t trigger his third greeting (''"Is it absolutely necessary for you to bother me right now?"''), so maybe you can find the conditions? Second, I have a hard time figuring out when he will leave for Riften, with or without Fastred. Also, was he supposed to have a schedule in Riften? All the best, and no rush! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:38, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I took a look at the dialogue, that line (which I also have never heard before), has a condition "GetTalkedToPC = 0", which I assume means he says it when he's never talked to you, so yeah I see how that would not make sense, considering it's the third line, and the other two take precedence over it. As for him moving to Riften, it's a bit difficult to understand all these things, but it seems to be handled by a "post quest", and all I can see there is that they are removed from the Ivarsteadfaction and added to the Riftenfaction, and they are moved to the bunkhouse. If he has a schedule for Riften, I don't know what it is. I'm guessing this post quest is activated when the quest is finished, I believe I've read they move to Riften when the whole quest is completed, and not just their part of the quest ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 21:52, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Hey Dwarf; I also noticed that strange condition, and I guess it’s an unused line. As for the schedule in Riften, I’l have to complete the quest in its entirety and make sure it is stated correctly – right now, I’ve used the old text.--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:03, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: As you've probably gathered from my FB posts, I'm hoping for a rather big change tomorrow afternoon. We'll see how that goes. Anyway, onto business....<br />
<br />
::: Dwarf's already explained the dialogue issue. I have nothing further to add there. Bassianius' schedule in Riften is that he sleeps in the bunkhouse from 8pm-4am and then wanders Riften randomly after that. Dwarf: this is defined by the packages added to his Alias in T02PostQuest.<br />
<br />
::: Oh and strangely enough, the post quest kicks in part-way through the quest, when you receive the objective to "Find Fenrig". From the comments in the code, this was done so you couldn't possibly be somewhere that you would see him teleport suddenly into Riften. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:00, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: Thank you so much, both of you. I’ll take a look in-game for good measure, then launch the page. ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:58, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::: Damn, another bug – it seems like he never sleeps in Riften, but instead just wanders around 24 hours a day (Fastred too). Lack of beds…? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:09, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::: I wondered about that when I was looking at it. It looks like there's a minor bug in the sleeping schedule in that it doesn't actually specify where he's supposed to sleep. I ''think'' that would mean he'd sleep wherever he might find a bed if he's close enough, but I'm not sure. It could be that the goof just causes that package to be ignored altogether. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:42, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}} Yeah, from looking at his behavior, he seems very interested in Balimund's forge and spends half the night staring at it. That's all I can come up, but he's definitely not going near the Bunkhouse. I'll add the bug and the patch people can hopefully solve it. ;) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:08, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Logrolf the Willful ==<br />
<br />
Hey RH! Congratulations on that first cup of coffee! A few more of my usual questions, this time about [[Skyrim:Logrolf the Willful|Logrolf the Willful]]. I’m [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|writing an article]] on him, and there are a few loose ends; <br />
* When exactly will he spawn? <br />
* Speech skill required to pass the persuade option when he is trapped?<br />
* Will he travel or teleport to the Abandoned House in Markarth? <br />
Hope you can find the time! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:47, 27 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:He's moved to the correct location and enabled when the relevant part of [[Skyrim:The House of Horrors|The House of Horrors]] starts (stage 80). The speechcraft check is Average, so 50/35. As for travelling or teleporting, I think the answer is "either". It'd need some quick in-game testing, but I suspect if you follow him closely, he'll run all the way there, but there's clearly some code to just teleport him there if he's "unloaded". That might just mean he'll run out of the dungeon and then teleport, though. Not sure. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:10, 27 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: I just took a look at him after freeing him from Broken Tower Redoubt, and it seems like he just teleports to Markarth upon leaving the cell/dungeon. I guess he may run all the way to Markarth if he is trapped in an exterior Forsworn camp, but with this save I get Broken Tower Redoubt, regardless of what I do so I can't fully test it. Anyway, thanks for the help - small question though, about the 50/35-thingy. Is that a required Speech skill of 50? Or where does the 35 come from? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 03:56, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: 35 is what it is if you have the Persuasion perk. So yeah, it's normally 50. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 04:52, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cyclic redirects ==<br />
<br />
Hi there! I wonder if this may be something you could help with. Would it be possible to remove the link from {{tl|Place Link}} if and only if the linked page redirects back to the page with the Place Link on?<br />
<br />
As an example: the ESO stall [[Online:Bridgeside Market|Bridgeside Market]] is a redirect to the marketplace [[Online:Dockside Trading Stalls|Dockside Trading Stalls]] (it was discussed between myself, Jeancey and Alarra back in April on IRC that stalls should redirect to their parent marketplaces), but it is pertinent to list Bridgeside Market on Dockside Trading Stalls, as that is where it is, and the Place Link is the easiest way to do this. So, clicking on Bridgeside Market from Dockside Trading Stalls takes you right back to Dockside Trading Stalls again. It would make more sense, if possible, for the link to be disabled in a case such as this.<br />
<br />
Thanks for any help, and I'll happily try to explain it in a different way if this makes no sense! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:29, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Templates have no way of detecting a redirect, but I've added a <code>nolink</code> parameter to the template, which will serve a similar purpose. You can see that I've added it to the Dockside Trading Stalls page already as an example. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:47, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I wondered whether that might be the only way. But defining the local variable definitely reduces the leg-work that I would otherwise have seen by adding nolink to every individual link, so that's great, thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:56, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::If there are enough of them that it's warranted, I can put the bot on it, but only if there are a lot; if there's only like 30 or 40 pages that would be affected, it's easier for a human to do it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:59, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::No thanks, we don't have many of the store and marketplace pages made yet anyway. Here's another one for you though: any idea why Place Link does not load the settlement parameter from the page it is linking? See the map links for [[ON:Port Hunding|Port Hunding]]'s Shops and Services. They are linking to the Stros M'Kai map rather than the Port Hunding map, despite the fact that the map links on the pages themselves are working. As far as I understand what I coded for Place Link, it should be linking to world={{{settlement}}} if settlement is defined on the page that is loaded. (The links on [[ON:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]] and [[ON:Wayrest|Wayrest]] only work because I forced the zone parameter to them.) --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:07, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::The template wasn't saving the settlement info, so Place Link couldn't pick it up. It'll take a while for the wiki to go through and update all of them, but in theory, they should all be fixed once the [[Special:Statistics|job queue]] is back down to 0. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:16, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::Ah what a nut. Can't load something I never saved, can I? :P &nbsp; Thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:17, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::::It ''can'' be a tad difficult, yeah. You could always insert random information instead and wait to see how long it takes people to notice. :P <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:21, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== P on your parade ==<br />
<br />
The place pages (Place A etc) all sort under 'P' now. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks, I'll have a look at the tempate and fix it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cookies ==<br />
<br />
Can I send someone a cookie? It's for fulfilling some of my many image requests. Cheers. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 01:19, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Yes, anyone can send someone else cookies at any time. Just add {{tl|Cookie}} (or any of the other [[:Category:Prize Templates|Prize Templates]]) along with your message, and you're off to the races. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:22, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Templates using NS_BASE instead of NS_ID for mapicons ==<br />
<br />
I have been noticing that several <nowiki>{{Place Link}}</nowiki> have been causing images to break. When you hover over the broken image, it uses the NS_BASE (ex. Skyrim) instead of the NS_ID (ex. SR) in the beginning of the image name. I did a [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/sandbox|test]] where I changed ''<nowiki>{{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_BASE}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}</nowiki>'' to ''<nowiki>{{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_ID}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}</nowiki>''. The page can be transcluded just fine with that change, but I was wondering if there was a specific reason to have NS_BASE, and if it would be safe to change for the actual template? Jeancey also pointed out that the <nowiki>{{Place Summary}}</nowiki> has broken images, so I [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/Spectatio|changed]] it in a sandbox. ''<nowiki>#define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_base|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}}</nowiki>'' was changed to ''<nowiki>#define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_id|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}}</nowiki>'' in that template. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 18:27, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:The place links break due to bad caching just so you know, a simple null edit always fixes them. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:34, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I've tried that before, but it seems hit or miss if the null edit works. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 18:38, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::{{ec}}The first change you mention would actually cause the check to fail all the time because NS_ID would return "OB", for instance, not "Oblivion". <s>You're right that there's something wrong with it, though, because NS_BASE would never return a secondary namespace like Shivering, it would return Oblivion. Tribunal is noticeably excluded in that list, which means the check should be on NS_NAME, not NS_BASE.</s> Your second change is close, but you'd only want to change the capitalized NS_BASE; the lower-case one is a special parameter name and should stay the same. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:45, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Just to wrap this up (I think), I didn't actually change anything substantive in the Place Link template—I only removed a bunch of unnecessary code. I suspect that, as Silencer said, this is just a case of the caching issues. If anyone sees it happening again, tell me exactly what page it's happening on and exactly what the image name was. I can't see anything that would use the full name rather than the ID. Even if it fails, it should just be blank, so I'm really confused as to why the long namespace name would be showing up anywhere. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:20, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Lorepage Parameter ==<br />
<br />
Since you implemented the lorepage parameter for several of the summary boxes, I was wondering if you could help out with [[Online:Varen Aquilarios|this issue]]. The link becomes illegible due to the blue background for Imperials. Is it possible to change the link's colour along with the name's? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 26 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Done. If the lorepage parameter is actually specified as a full link (not sure if that's ever done), the colour change will have to be done there, but for most of them, it should be fixed now. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:25, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cleanup categories ==<br />
<br />
Hey, I think something in [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACleanup&diff=1367270&oldid=1367261 the change] you made to the Cleanup template broke the namespace categorization, as all the [[:Category:Pages Needing Cleanup|categories]] are empty. I looked to see if I could identify a problem, but I am not adept enough with wiki markup to penetrate the template's switches and everything. -- [[User:Hargrimm|Hargrimm]]<sup>[[User talk:Hargrimm|(T)]]</sup> 05:06, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:That was an easy mistake to make and could've been tough to spot, but thankfully I clued in quickly. The categories should be repopulated shortly. Thanks for letting me know! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 05:16, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== South of Skyrim ==<br />
<br />
Just saying that I haven't forgotten about this. I'm currently doing a Dawnguard playthrough but on my next playthrough, if nothing else I'll use my cellphone to take photos of the journey. They'll be pretty low quality but hopefully will show you where I'm talking about.<br />
<br />
In the meantime if you know anyone with a 360 you could have a go at trying to follow the directions on it. Both of the two of us who reported finding this area were on XBox, it might be a platform-specific glitch. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 00:20, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Even something low quality will be enough to make sure that I'm going where you're going. Platform-specific glitches are very rare, but not unheard of, so it could well be. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:44, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Well I did this, the quality is moderately terrible but the images might be helpful. Should I upload them here? Normally I'd IM them to you. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 04:15, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Probably [mailto:robinhood70@live.ca e-mail] is easiest. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 04:44, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Alright, bah. Don't try to reply to the email once you get it, I really only keep email around nowadays for registering on websites and don't read it otherwise. Is a tarball OK? --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 05:48, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::That should be fine. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 06:08, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
{{od}}Sent. If you have any questions about it, post on my talk page. Your talk page is too busy so I'm unwatching it now. Thanks :) --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 22:17, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== API returning 500 ==<br />
<br />
Hi there! Not sure where best to report this, but I figure you can either deal with it or point me the right way.<br />
<br />
My userjs queries <code>http://uesp.net/w/api.php?action=query&list=recentchanges&format=json&rclimit=10&rcprop=user|parsedcomment|timestamp|title|flags&rcshow=!bot</code> to show a "AJAX" recent changes in the sidebar. This seems to be returning error 500 recently (i.e. I just noticed it today and it wasn't happening two weeks ago. That's the most specificity I got, sorry). This of course breaks my sidebar RC which... makes me a sad battery. :(<br />
<br />
Any ideas why? Anything I can do to fix it? (I've watchlisted, feel free to reply here) <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 20:18, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:P.S. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/User:DimeCadmium/dcutil.js is the code, specifically doRCTimer(). <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 20:24, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Not a clue why this is happening. Trying the same query on the development server works fine, so it may be a bug that's been fixed between 1.19 and 1.22. Of course, if it was working fine a couple of weeks ago, that wouldn't seem likely. I'll poke around a bit and see what I can find. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:47, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Okay, as long as you're on one of the main servers (not mobile), it should be working now. Apparently, somewhere in the new MetaTemplate API, I've used something that only works with a version higher than 1.19. I'll have to chase it down. In the meantime, I've temporarily disabled the MetaTemplate API. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:58, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Yay! I figured it had something to do with [[UESPWiki:Dev History#31_July_2014|this]]. :P Thankee <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 21:04, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, as soon as I realized that you'd said it had worked a couple of weeks ago, I clued in that it must be the changes I'd made yesterday. As it turns out, it wasn't something I'd added, but something I hadn't. There's a long-unused function that you still have to include, even though it's not used. They finally removed it entirely in 1.21. I'll have it updated on all our servers shortly. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:27, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Needed Hyphen? ==<br />
<br />
Hiya, just been looking at watchlist and noticed your comment on the Bloodlet Throne page update where you say the a hyphen is needed to show that the lock is adept not the gate. Not sure what an adept gate is? I've been showing locks without using a hyphen forever. There was a discussion a long while ago (not me) that as there isn't a standard way of showing locks we should continue using the methods we were using. I've had a quick look for it, but can't remember where or even who. Sorry to be a pain. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:18, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:(I've copied your "getting sick" poem as well) [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::I'm not sure what an adept gate is either, so common sense tells you it's an adept lock (at least in context...it's not like that makes sense in real life, either). Grammatically, it's the same as if you'd said "you'll see a red locked gate", for example. Is the gate red and it's locked, or is there a red lock on the gate? Just googling for it, though, it seems that it's a matter of where you grew up to some extent ([http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/hyphens_in_compound_adjectives.htm example]). I wasn't aware of this. I know they're sometimes dropped in other common-use scenarios (like I could've dropped it just there, perhaps), so between that and Americans dropping them sometimes anyway, if you say there's a conversation about it somewhere, I'll defer to that. It'll drive me batty not to hyphenate a compound adjective even when it's obvious what applies to what, but I'm sure I'll survive.<br />
<br />
::And you're welcome to the poem. I stole it from somewhere else, myself, so I can hardly complain! :Þ <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::I've been adding the hypen to your pages whenever I fix them up, Biffa. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:50, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::Ditto, anywhere I see it without, I add it. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 15:57, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}}Hyphenation and comma use vary greatly between different dialects of English. It's not a big deal. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 16:06, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Unique Items ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rob. I'm working on the item pages for [[Skyrim:Unique Items|Unique Items]] and I have a couple creation kit things I was hoping you could clear up for me, when you get the chance. <br />
*During [[Skyrim:The Bonds of Matrimony]], Maramal says that he gives a ring to both the player and the player's spouse. Does he actually give a ring to your spouse?<br />
*Does [[Skyrim:Reveler|the Reveler]] actually carry the Charmed Necklace on his person, or can you only obtain it by trading him the bottle of mead?<br />
*I found [http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00068b72 this dialogue] referencing the [[Skyrim:Nightweaver's Band|Nightweaver's Band]] in the cslist. Will it ever be spoken by Festus? It doesn't seem to be connected to the quest in any way. <br />
<br />
Thanks in advance. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 16:38, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that Festus says that line of dialogue when you return to the sanctuary after [[Skyrim:Recipe for Disaster|Recipe for Disaster]]. You only get the ring if you hide the corpse I think. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::{{ec}}Wait...someone besides Krusty is asking me for a CK verification?!? I'm all lost and confused! :Þ In order:<br />
::* Yes, and it's the exact same ring you get.<br />
::* Yes, it should be on his person. I don't know what (if anything) controls whether something can be pickpocketed, beyond the obvious perks, so in-game verification might be good on that count. I'm fairly sure it would show in his inventory if you kill him, though.<br />
::* It looks like it should be (and Legoless confirmed it while I was getting ec'd), provided that you do everything including hiding the body. The reason it doesn't look connected in CSList is that it's what's called a shared dialogue. That means it's used in more than one place. Those are stored a bit differently, and I don't think CSList links them properly. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 17:49, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Thanks a lot. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 18:09, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::I can confirm the reveler; it's on his body if he dies, he got killed by monsters on my last playthrough. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 18:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::You can buy the ring from your spouse once they open their shop. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 22:00, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Wikia images ==<br />
<br />
Hey Robin. As per the trainwreck you witnessed over on the wikia, you may have guessed I'm no longer admin. As such, I won't be able to delete any future plagiarized images - however I definitely suggest contacting the admins EbonySkyrim or TombRaiser, who will gladly deal with such issues. Thanks! --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 14:59, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for letting me know. It's good to have specific names to go to. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:12, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Email ==<br />
<br />
Hi Robin, please check your email as soon as you can, and maybe hop into chat. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 15:35, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Give me a few minutes. I'm gonna have to reconfigure my IRC to go by the IP address. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:49, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Arena Summerset ==<br />
<br />
Look at the map, it has both islands, it is the province. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:13, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Actually, looking at Arena more in depth, I'm inclined to agree. There's at least one mention of "Summurset Province" along with several "Summurset Isle" and "city of Summurset" references. The fact that there's at least one province and that there are named cities on the second isle convinces me, though. I'll go change the transclusion. I'll leave the page with the "u" spelling, though, as that's the word used exclusively in the text in Arena. The only place I found "Summerset" in Arena was in the executable and I'm not sure if that ever shows up in game. It definitely makes sense to leave the redirect in place, though, given that they seem to have settled on "Summerset" later. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:27, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::It still needs moved back to the plural 'isles'. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:40, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::It's exclusively singular in Arena. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:45, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::It appears so, which may cause problems if an island pages is desired, but that can be dealt with if it happens. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 19:05, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Weird Bug with Battlespire Books ==<br />
<br />
Hello Robin, notice at the bottom of the page the red link for an unused template under the [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Battlespire:A_Short_History_of_The_Augmented_Craftworks&action=edit most recent version]? Do you have any clue what is causing that? --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 01:56, 16 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I was just looking at that, actually. The template's a bit oddly designed, but I'm going to leave it alone for now and just continue the way we were doing things. Silencer had the right idea. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:58, 16 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Book Summary ==<br />
<br />
I've undone your edit to the book summary as it causes the summary to work twice on a page, though only display once. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 14:57, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I'll have a closer look at it. Thanks for letting me know. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:25, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Yup, my fault completely. I goofed on which set of curly brackets went with which. They really need to redesign templates to allow formatting the code more cleanly so mistakes like that are harder to make. I could reinstate the div optimization, but not really worth going back and forth for no actual change in functionality. Whenever I start ''Project: Template Cleanup II'', I'll redo that. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:35, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Conversations ==<br />
<br />
Hey RobinHood70. I’m looking at a strange scene, <code> DialogueFalkreathGrayPineGoodsScene01</code>, and there are four lines of dialogue, for a conversation between [[Skyrim:Bolund|Bolund]] and [[Skyrim:Solaf|Solaf]]. The lines are as follows: <br />
<br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is a fine place to be, Bolund."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Another day in this graveyard."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Falkreath is where people go to die. We could be fighting, taking back Nord land!"''<br><br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is our home, a place where we have good jobs under a good Jarl. Until the war comes to us we stay put."''<br />
<br />
Now, that doesn’t make any sense – can you check the CK and see what order they’re in? Or maybe the convo is bugged? Thanks! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:13, 27 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Why can't all your questions be this easy? ;) The dialogue is just in the wrong order—"Another day..." comes first, then the rest of the lines are in the order you have them. Apart from that, there's absolutely nothing special about this scene at all. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:22, 28 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:: Thanks a lot! Better safe than sorry! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:55, 1 September 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: Hello again! I need yet another favor, a bit harder and tedious, but important. I ripped all the conversations related to Falkreath’s Dead Man’s Drink, but I have trouble figuring out who says what, in several cases. I have listed them in my [[User:Krusty/Sandbox5|SANDBOX]], and I will be most grateful if you could check the CK and replace the question marks with the proper NPC name. No rush whatsoever, and I hope it’s not too annoying. Best, and thanks in advance, --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:00, 1 September 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox5&diff=1386676User:Krusty/Sandbox52014-09-01T20:12:38Z<p>Krusty: Dead Man's Drink convo's</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Lod''': ''"Mathies. I wanted to say I'm sorry about what happened to your girl."''<br><br />
'''Mathies''': ''"That's kind of you, Lod."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"How's the Corpselight treating you Mathies?"''<br><br />
'''Mathies''': ''"You know how farming is here, long days and little to show for it."''<br />
<br />
'''Tekla''': ''"Leave me alone, Lod."''<br><br />
'''Lod''': ''"Ah Tekla, you're a pretty little mouse. Or Alright, but if you ever want to leave that old curmudgeon I've got plenty for you to do at Gentle Repose."''<br />
<br />
'''Mathies''': ''"Do you ever get tired of long nights at the mill, Zaria?"''<br><br />
'''Zaria''': ''"Do you ever get tired of the long days on the farm, {{sic|Mathias|Mathies}}?"''<br><br />
'''Mathies''': ''"Yes, yes I do."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"Hey, Lod, how is the worst farmer in the hold doing?"''<br><br />
'''Lod''': ''"The Gentle Repose is barren, it was barren the day my father claimed the land and it's barren now."''<br><br />
'''??''': ''"Sure it is, Lod. Sure it is."''<br />
<br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Hey gossip, bring me a drink."''<br><br />
'''??''': ''"Bolund, you're going to die of thirst if you keep calling me that."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"The way this war is going you'll soon have plenty of veterans like me to buy drinks."''<br><br />
'''??''': ''"The way this war is going there might not be anyone left to drink soon."''<br />
<br />
'''Tekla''': ''"Narri, do you think the war will ever end?"''<br><br />
'''Narri''': ''"I think the war is just an excuse. If it does end there will be a new reason and a new place."''<br><br />
'''Tekla''': ''"But what about the banning of Talos worship? Isn't that worth fighting about?"''<br><br />
'''Narri''': ''"I don't know about you, {{sic|tekla|Tekla}}, but all my prayers are silent and who I pray to is still my own to decide."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"Keep them coming and keep them strong, Valga."''<br><br />
'''Valga''': ''"Will do."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"Tekla! It's good to see you, girl. How's Dengeir treating you?"''<br><br />
'''Tekla''': ''"As he should I suppose."''<br><br />
'''??''': ''"Hmmm, well don't take what you don't have to."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"Narri! This mead tastes like water and the meat has gone off."''<br><br />
'''Narri''': ''"The mead is same as it ever was and the meat is fresh, maybe your sense of taste has "gone off.""''<br><br />
'''??''': ''"The impertinence! You never would have talked to me like that when I was Jarl."'' <br><br />
'''Narri''': ''"We had this same argument every week, even when you were Jarl."''<br />
<br />
'''??''': ''"I wish I could afford to pay you both, Narri. I really do."''<br><br />
'''Narri''': ''"At some point we should hire Tekla on here. If she could just spend less time serving Dengeir..."''</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Solaf&diff=1386667Skyrim:Solaf2014-09-01T19:59:26Z<p>Krusty: + conversation</p>
<hr />
<div>{{NPC Summary<br />
|essential=<br />
|city=[[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]<br />
|race=Nord<br />
|gender=Male<br />
|class=Lumberjack<br />
|faction={{Faction|CrimeFactionFalkreath}}; {{Faction|FalkreathGrayPineGoodsFaction}}; {{Faction|ServicesFalkreathGrayPineGoods}}; {{Faction|TownFalkreathFaction}}<br />
|refid=0001981E<br />
|baseid=00013652<br />
|image=SR-npc-Solaf.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Solaf<br />
|buys=All<br />
|gold=750 (+500 [[Skyrim:Investor|Investor]]; +1000 [[Skyrim:Master Trader|Master Trader]])<br />
|sells=See [[Skyrim:Gray Pine Goods#Standard Merchandise|Gray Pine Goods]]<br />
|store=[[Skyrim:Gray Pine Goods|Gray Pine Goods]]<br />
|skills=[[Skyrim:Two-handed|Two-handed]]<br />
|aggress=Unaggressive<br />
|level=4<br />
|moral=No Crime<br />
|health=75<br />
|magicka=60<br />
|stamina=60<br />
|voicetype=MaleBrute<br />
}}<br />
'''Solaf''' is a [[Skyrim:Nord|Nord]] [[Skyrim:Lumberjack|lumberjack]] and the proprietor of [[Skyrim:Gray Pine Goods|Gray Pine Goods]]. He lives there with his brother [[Skyrim:Bolund|Bolund]] who runs the [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]] lumber mill. He has 750 gold available for bartering and he will buy and sell any type of item as he is a general merchant.<br />
<br />
He wakes at 8am and opens his store for business. At 8pm, he closes it and heads to [[Skyrim:Dead Man's Drink|Dead Man's Drink]] for three hours, then goes back home for sleep at midnight.<br />
<br />
He wears a set of farm [[Skyrim:Clothes#0003452e|clothes]] and a pair of [[Skyrim:Boots#0003452f|boots]]. He is equipped with an [[Skyrim:Iron Dagger|iron dagger]], and carries a [[Skyrim:Key to Gray Pine Goods|key]] to his store, as well as a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled Lists#Common|common items and gold]].<br />
<br />
When you first speak to him he will cheerfully greet you with ''"Well met. Unlike my brother, I've no dislike of strangers. Met lots of 'em while I was a [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloak]]."'', ''"Can I get you something?"'', ''"Looking for something?"'', ''"What do you need, stranger?"'', or ''"Don't mind Bolund. He's young and gets riled easily."'' He is very paranoid about potential theft, and when exiting conversations he will usually remind you, ''"Steal anything from my shop, and you'll regret it."'' Alternatively, he may end conversation with a friendlier ''"Be seein' you, stranger."'' His paranoia also shows when you are browsing his store, as he can be found warning you with either ''"Look around all you want, but don't try anything funny."'' or ''"Hey! You planning to steal something? Don't even think about it."''<br />
<br />
Asking him about the fact that he was a Stormcloak will cause him to remark, ''"I was once, but not any more. I was wounded in a skirmish up near [[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]]. This was years ago, mind you."'' He will then go on to say, ''"Now, maybe I don't pick up a blade in [[Skyrim:Ulfric Stormcloak|Ulfric's]] name no more, but I still hold with his ideals. Skyrim is Nord land, and we ought to rule it. We don't need no help from the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Empire]] on that count."'' Should you ask about his brother, he'll tell you, ''"His name's Bolund. He's the one who works the lumber mill down by the river. If you meet him, don't expect much in the way o' conversation. He ain't one for talking, especially with folk he don't know."''<br />
<br />
When Solaf and Bolund meet inside the store, they may engage in conversation: <br />
<br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Another day in this graveyard."''<br><br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is a fine place to be, Bolund."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Falkreath is where people go to die. We could be fighting, taking back Nord land!"''<br><br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is our home, a place where we have good jobs under a good Jarl. Until the war comes to us we stay put."''<br />
== Notes ==<br />
* Solaf is briefly mentioned in ''[[Skyrim:Runil's Journal|Runil's journal]]''.</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:RobinHood70&diff=1386666User talk:RobinHood702014-09-01T19:55:51Z<p>Krusty: /* Conversations */ thanks</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ {{SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/MOTD}}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{/StdHeader}}<br />
<br />
== Axius! ==<br />
<br />
Hey RobinHood70! I know you are under the weather, and here’s hoping for a speedy recovery. I have a few questions about one [[Skyrim:Bassianus Axius|Bassianus Axius]], for now stashed away in my sandbox [[User:Krusty/Sandbox6|here]]. First, I can’t trigger his third greeting (''"Is it absolutely necessary for you to bother me right now?"''), so maybe you can find the conditions? Second, I have a hard time figuring out when he will leave for Riften, with or without Fastred. Also, was he supposed to have a schedule in Riften? All the best, and no rush! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:38, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I took a look at the dialogue, that line (which I also have never heard before), has a condition "GetTalkedToPC = 0", which I assume means he says it when he's never talked to you, so yeah I see how that would not make sense, considering it's the third line, and the other two take precedence over it. As for him moving to Riften, it's a bit difficult to understand all these things, but it seems to be handled by a "post quest", and all I can see there is that they are removed from the Ivarsteadfaction and added to the Riftenfaction, and they are moved to the bunkhouse. If he has a schedule for Riften, I don't know what it is. I'm guessing this post quest is activated when the quest is finished, I believe I've read they move to Riften when the whole quest is completed, and not just their part of the quest ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 21:52, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Hey Dwarf; I also noticed that strange condition, and I guess it’s an unused line. As for the schedule in Riften, I’l have to complete the quest in its entirety and make sure it is stated correctly – right now, I’ve used the old text.--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:03, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: As you've probably gathered from my FB posts, I'm hoping for a rather big change tomorrow afternoon. We'll see how that goes. Anyway, onto business....<br />
<br />
::: Dwarf's already explained the dialogue issue. I have nothing further to add there. Bassianius' schedule in Riften is that he sleeps in the bunkhouse from 8pm-4am and then wanders Riften randomly after that. Dwarf: this is defined by the packages added to his Alias in T02PostQuest.<br />
<br />
::: Oh and strangely enough, the post quest kicks in part-way through the quest, when you receive the objective to "Find Fenrig". From the comments in the code, this was done so you couldn't possibly be somewhere that you would see him teleport suddenly into Riften. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:00, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: Thank you so much, both of you. I’ll take a look in-game for good measure, then launch the page. ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:58, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::: Damn, another bug – it seems like he never sleeps in Riften, but instead just wanders around 24 hours a day (Fastred too). Lack of beds…? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:09, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::: I wondered about that when I was looking at it. It looks like there's a minor bug in the sleeping schedule in that it doesn't actually specify where he's supposed to sleep. I ''think'' that would mean he'd sleep wherever he might find a bed if he's close enough, but I'm not sure. It could be that the goof just causes that package to be ignored altogether. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:42, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}} Yeah, from looking at his behavior, he seems very interested in Balimund's forge and spends half the night staring at it. That's all I can come up, but he's definitely not going near the Bunkhouse. I'll add the bug and the patch people can hopefully solve it. ;) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:08, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Logrolf the Willful ==<br />
<br />
Hey RH! Congratulations on that first cup of coffee! A few more of my usual questions, this time about [[Skyrim:Logrolf the Willful|Logrolf the Willful]]. I’m [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|writing an article]] on him, and there are a few loose ends; <br />
* When exactly will he spawn? <br />
* Speech skill required to pass the persuade option when he is trapped?<br />
* Will he travel or teleport to the Abandoned House in Markarth? <br />
Hope you can find the time! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:47, 27 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:He's moved to the correct location and enabled when the relevant part of [[Skyrim:The House of Horrors|The House of Horrors]] starts (stage 80). The speechcraft check is Average, so 50/35. As for travelling or teleporting, I think the answer is "either". It'd need some quick in-game testing, but I suspect if you follow him closely, he'll run all the way there, but there's clearly some code to just teleport him there if he's "unloaded". That might just mean he'll run out of the dungeon and then teleport, though. Not sure. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:10, 27 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: I just took a look at him after freeing him from Broken Tower Redoubt, and it seems like he just teleports to Markarth upon leaving the cell/dungeon. I guess he may run all the way to Markarth if he is trapped in an exterior Forsworn camp, but with this save I get Broken Tower Redoubt, regardless of what I do so I can't fully test it. Anyway, thanks for the help - small question though, about the 50/35-thingy. Is that a required Speech skill of 50? Or where does the 35 come from? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 03:56, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: 35 is what it is if you have the Persuasion perk. So yeah, it's normally 50. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 04:52, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cyclic redirects ==<br />
<br />
Hi there! I wonder if this may be something you could help with. Would it be possible to remove the link from {{tl|Place Link}} if and only if the linked page redirects back to the page with the Place Link on?<br />
<br />
As an example: the ESO stall [[Online:Bridgeside Market|Bridgeside Market]] is a redirect to the marketplace [[Online:Dockside Trading Stalls|Dockside Trading Stalls]] (it was discussed between myself, Jeancey and Alarra back in April on IRC that stalls should redirect to their parent marketplaces), but it is pertinent to list Bridgeside Market on Dockside Trading Stalls, as that is where it is, and the Place Link is the easiest way to do this. So, clicking on Bridgeside Market from Dockside Trading Stalls takes you right back to Dockside Trading Stalls again. It would make more sense, if possible, for the link to be disabled in a case such as this.<br />
<br />
Thanks for any help, and I'll happily try to explain it in a different way if this makes no sense! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:29, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Templates have no way of detecting a redirect, but I've added a <code>nolink</code> parameter to the template, which will serve a similar purpose. You can see that I've added it to the Dockside Trading Stalls page already as an example. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:47, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I wondered whether that might be the only way. But defining the local variable definitely reduces the leg-work that I would otherwise have seen by adding nolink to every individual link, so that's great, thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:56, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::If there are enough of them that it's warranted, I can put the bot on it, but only if there are a lot; if there's only like 30 or 40 pages that would be affected, it's easier for a human to do it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:59, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::No thanks, we don't have many of the store and marketplace pages made yet anyway. Here's another one for you though: any idea why Place Link does not load the settlement parameter from the page it is linking? See the map links for [[ON:Port Hunding|Port Hunding]]'s Shops and Services. They are linking to the Stros M'Kai map rather than the Port Hunding map, despite the fact that the map links on the pages themselves are working. As far as I understand what I coded for Place Link, it should be linking to world={{{settlement}}} if settlement is defined on the page that is loaded. (The links on [[ON:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]] and [[ON:Wayrest|Wayrest]] only work because I forced the zone parameter to them.) --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:07, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::The template wasn't saving the settlement info, so Place Link couldn't pick it up. It'll take a while for the wiki to go through and update all of them, but in theory, they should all be fixed once the [[Special:Statistics|job queue]] is back down to 0. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:16, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::Ah what a nut. Can't load something I never saved, can I? :P &nbsp; Thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:17, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::::It ''can'' be a tad difficult, yeah. You could always insert random information instead and wait to see how long it takes people to notice. :P <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:21, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== P on your parade ==<br />
<br />
The place pages (Place A etc) all sort under 'P' now. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks, I'll have a look at the tempate and fix it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cookies ==<br />
<br />
Can I send someone a cookie? It's for fulfilling some of my many image requests. Cheers. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 01:19, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Yes, anyone can send someone else cookies at any time. Just add {{tl|Cookie}} (or any of the other [[:Category:Prize Templates|Prize Templates]]) along with your message, and you're off to the races. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:22, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Templates using NS_BASE instead of NS_ID for mapicons ==<br />
<br />
I have been noticing that several <nowiki>{{Place Link}}</nowiki> have been causing images to break. When you hover over the broken image, it uses the NS_BASE (ex. Skyrim) instead of the NS_ID (ex. SR) in the beginning of the image name. I did a [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/sandbox|test]] where I changed ''<nowiki>{{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_BASE}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}</nowiki>'' to ''<nowiki>{{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_ID}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}</nowiki>''. The page can be transcluded just fine with that change, but I was wondering if there was a specific reason to have NS_BASE, and if it would be safe to change for the actual template? Jeancey also pointed out that the <nowiki>{{Place Summary}}</nowiki> has broken images, so I [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/Spectatio|changed]] it in a sandbox. ''<nowiki>#define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_base|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}}</nowiki>'' was changed to ''<nowiki>#define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_id|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}}</nowiki>'' in that template. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 18:27, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:The place links break due to bad caching just so you know, a simple null edit always fixes them. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:34, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I've tried that before, but it seems hit or miss if the null edit works. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 18:38, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::{{ec}}The first change you mention would actually cause the check to fail all the time because NS_ID would return "OB", for instance, not "Oblivion". <s>You're right that there's something wrong with it, though, because NS_BASE would never return a secondary namespace like Shivering, it would return Oblivion. Tribunal is noticeably excluded in that list, which means the check should be on NS_NAME, not NS_BASE.</s> Your second change is close, but you'd only want to change the capitalized NS_BASE; the lower-case one is a special parameter name and should stay the same. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:45, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Just to wrap this up (I think), I didn't actually change anything substantive in the Place Link template—I only removed a bunch of unnecessary code. I suspect that, as Silencer said, this is just a case of the caching issues. If anyone sees it happening again, tell me exactly what page it's happening on and exactly what the image name was. I can't see anything that would use the full name rather than the ID. Even if it fails, it should just be blank, so I'm really confused as to why the long namespace name would be showing up anywhere. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:20, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Lorepage Parameter ==<br />
<br />
Since you implemented the lorepage parameter for several of the summary boxes, I was wondering if you could help out with [[Online:Varen Aquilarios|this issue]]. The link becomes illegible due to the blue background for Imperials. Is it possible to change the link's colour along with the name's? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 26 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Done. If the lorepage parameter is actually specified as a full link (not sure if that's ever done), the colour change will have to be done there, but for most of them, it should be fixed now. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:25, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cleanup categories ==<br />
<br />
Hey, I think something in [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACleanup&diff=1367270&oldid=1367261 the change] you made to the Cleanup template broke the namespace categorization, as all the [[:Category:Pages Needing Cleanup|categories]] are empty. I looked to see if I could identify a problem, but I am not adept enough with wiki markup to penetrate the template's switches and everything. -- [[User:Hargrimm|Hargrimm]]<sup>[[User talk:Hargrimm|(T)]]</sup> 05:06, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:That was an easy mistake to make and could've been tough to spot, but thankfully I clued in quickly. The categories should be repopulated shortly. Thanks for letting me know! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 05:16, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== South of Skyrim ==<br />
<br />
Just saying that I haven't forgotten about this. I'm currently doing a Dawnguard playthrough but on my next playthrough, if nothing else I'll use my cellphone to take photos of the journey. They'll be pretty low quality but hopefully will show you where I'm talking about.<br />
<br />
In the meantime if you know anyone with a 360 you could have a go at trying to follow the directions on it. Both of the two of us who reported finding this area were on XBox, it might be a platform-specific glitch. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 00:20, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Even something low quality will be enough to make sure that I'm going where you're going. Platform-specific glitches are very rare, but not unheard of, so it could well be. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:44, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Well I did this, the quality is moderately terrible but the images might be helpful. Should I upload them here? Normally I'd IM them to you. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 04:15, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Probably [mailto:robinhood70@live.ca e-mail] is easiest. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 04:44, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Alright, bah. Don't try to reply to the email once you get it, I really only keep email around nowadays for registering on websites and don't read it otherwise. Is a tarball OK? --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 05:48, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::That should be fine. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 06:08, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
{{od}}Sent. If you have any questions about it, post on my talk page. Your talk page is too busy so I'm unwatching it now. Thanks :) --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 22:17, 29 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== API returning 500 ==<br />
<br />
Hi there! Not sure where best to report this, but I figure you can either deal with it or point me the right way.<br />
<br />
My userjs queries <code>http://uesp.net/w/api.php?action=query&list=recentchanges&format=json&rclimit=10&rcprop=user|parsedcomment|timestamp|title|flags&rcshow=!bot</code> to show a "AJAX" recent changes in the sidebar. This seems to be returning error 500 recently (i.e. I just noticed it today and it wasn't happening two weeks ago. That's the most specificity I got, sorry). This of course breaks my sidebar RC which... makes me a sad battery. :(<br />
<br />
Any ideas why? Anything I can do to fix it? (I've watchlisted, feel free to reply here) <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 20:18, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:P.S. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/User:DimeCadmium/dcutil.js is the code, specifically doRCTimer(). <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 20:24, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Not a clue why this is happening. Trying the same query on the development server works fine, so it may be a bug that's been fixed between 1.19 and 1.22. Of course, if it was working fine a couple of weeks ago, that wouldn't seem likely. I'll poke around a bit and see what I can find. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:47, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Okay, as long as you're on one of the main servers (not mobile), it should be working now. Apparently, somewhere in the new MetaTemplate API, I've used something that only works with a version higher than 1.19. I'll have to chase it down. In the meantime, I've temporarily disabled the MetaTemplate API. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:58, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Yay! I figured it had something to do with [[UESPWiki:Dev History#31_July_2014|this]]. :P Thankee <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 21:04, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, as soon as I realized that you'd said it had worked a couple of weeks ago, I clued in that it must be the changes I'd made yesterday. As it turns out, it wasn't something I'd added, but something I hadn't. There's a long-unused function that you still have to include, even though it's not used. They finally removed it entirely in 1.21. I'll have it updated on all our servers shortly. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:27, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Needed Hyphen? ==<br />
<br />
Hiya, just been looking at watchlist and noticed your comment on the Bloodlet Throne page update where you say the a hyphen is needed to show that the lock is adept not the gate. Not sure what an adept gate is? I've been showing locks without using a hyphen forever. There was a discussion a long while ago (not me) that as there isn't a standard way of showing locks we should continue using the methods we were using. I've had a quick look for it, but can't remember where or even who. Sorry to be a pain. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:18, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:(I've copied your "getting sick" poem as well) [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::I'm not sure what an adept gate is either, so common sense tells you it's an adept lock (at least in context...it's not like that makes sense in real life, either). Grammatically, it's the same as if you'd said "you'll see a red locked gate", for example. Is the gate red and it's locked, or is there a red lock on the gate? Just googling for it, though, it seems that it's a matter of where you grew up to some extent ([http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/hyphens_in_compound_adjectives.htm example]). I wasn't aware of this. I know they're sometimes dropped in other common-use scenarios (like I could've dropped it just there, perhaps), so between that and Americans dropping them sometimes anyway, if you say there's a conversation about it somewhere, I'll defer to that. It'll drive me batty not to hyphenate a compound adjective even when it's obvious what applies to what, but I'm sure I'll survive.<br />
<br />
::And you're welcome to the poem. I stole it from somewhere else, myself, so I can hardly complain! :Þ <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::I've been adding the hypen to your pages whenever I fix them up, Biffa. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:50, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::Ditto, anywhere I see it without, I add it. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 15:57, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}}Hyphenation and comma use vary greatly between different dialects of English. It's not a big deal. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 16:06, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Unique Items ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rob. I'm working on the item pages for [[Skyrim:Unique Items|Unique Items]] and I have a couple creation kit things I was hoping you could clear up for me, when you get the chance. <br />
*During [[Skyrim:The Bonds of Matrimony]], Maramal says that he gives a ring to both the player and the player's spouse. Does he actually give a ring to your spouse?<br />
*Does [[Skyrim:Reveler|the Reveler]] actually carry the Charmed Necklace on his person, or can you only obtain it by trading him the bottle of mead?<br />
*I found [http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00068b72 this dialogue] referencing the [[Skyrim:Nightweaver's Band|Nightweaver's Band]] in the cslist. Will it ever be spoken by Festus? It doesn't seem to be connected to the quest in any way. <br />
<br />
Thanks in advance. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 16:38, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that Festus says that line of dialogue when you return to the sanctuary after [[Skyrim:Recipe for Disaster|Recipe for Disaster]]. You only get the ring if you hide the corpse I think. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::{{ec}}Wait...someone besides Krusty is asking me for a CK verification?!? I'm all lost and confused! :Þ In order:<br />
::* Yes, and it's the exact same ring you get.<br />
::* Yes, it should be on his person. I don't know what (if anything) controls whether something can be pickpocketed, beyond the obvious perks, so in-game verification might be good on that count. I'm fairly sure it would show in his inventory if you kill him, though.<br />
::* It looks like it should be (and Legoless confirmed it while I was getting ec'd), provided that you do everything including hiding the body. The reason it doesn't look connected in CSList is that it's what's called a shared dialogue. That means it's used in more than one place. Those are stored a bit differently, and I don't think CSList links them properly. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 17:49, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Thanks a lot. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 18:09, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::I can confirm the reveler; it's on his body if he dies, he got killed by monsters on my last playthrough. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 18:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::You can buy the ring from your spouse once they open their shop. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 22:00, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Wikia images ==<br />
<br />
Hey Robin. As per the trainwreck you witnessed over on the wikia, you may have guessed I'm no longer admin. As such, I won't be able to delete any future plagiarized images - however I definitely suggest contacting the admins EbonySkyrim or TombRaiser, who will gladly deal with such issues. Thanks! --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 14:59, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for letting me know. It's good to have specific names to go to. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:12, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Email ==<br />
<br />
Hi Robin, please check your email as soon as you can, and maybe hop into chat. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 15:35, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Give me a few minutes. I'm gonna have to reconfigure my IRC to go by the IP address. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:49, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Arena Summerset ==<br />
<br />
Look at the map, it has both islands, it is the province. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:13, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Actually, looking at Arena more in depth, I'm inclined to agree. There's at least one mention of "Summurset Province" along with several "Summurset Isle" and "city of Summurset" references. The fact that there's at least one province and that there are named cities on the second isle convinces me, though. I'll go change the transclusion. I'll leave the page with the "u" spelling, though, as that's the word used exclusively in the text in Arena. The only place I found "Summerset" in Arena was in the executable and I'm not sure if that ever shows up in game. It definitely makes sense to leave the redirect in place, though, given that they seem to have settled on "Summerset" later. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:27, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::It still needs moved back to the plural 'isles'. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:40, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::It's exclusively singular in Arena. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:45, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::It appears so, which may cause problems if an island pages is desired, but that can be dealt with if it happens. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 19:05, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Weird Bug with Battlespire Books ==<br />
<br />
Hello Robin, notice at the bottom of the page the red link for an unused template under the [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Battlespire:A_Short_History_of_The_Augmented_Craftworks&action=edit most recent version]? Do you have any clue what is causing that? --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 01:56, 16 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I was just looking at that, actually. The template's a bit oddly designed, but I'm going to leave it alone for now and just continue the way we were doing things. Silencer had the right idea. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:58, 16 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Book Summary ==<br />
<br />
I've undone your edit to the book summary as it causes the summary to work twice on a page, though only display once. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 14:57, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I'll have a closer look at it. Thanks for letting me know. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:25, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Yup, my fault completely. I goofed on which set of curly brackets went with which. They really need to redesign templates to allow formatting the code more cleanly so mistakes like that are harder to make. I could reinstate the div optimization, but not really worth going back and forth for no actual change in functionality. Whenever I start ''Project: Template Cleanup II'', I'll redo that. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:35, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Conversations ==<br />
<br />
Hey RobinHood70. I’m looking at a strange scene, <code> DialogueFalkreathGrayPineGoodsScene01</code>, and there are four lines of dialogue, for a conversation between [[Skyrim:Bolund|Bolund]] and [[Skyrim:Solaf|Solaf]]. The lines are as follows: <br />
<br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is a fine place to be, Bolund."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Another day in this graveyard."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Falkreath is where people go to die. We could be fighting, taking back Nord land!"''<br><br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is our home, a place where we have good jobs under a good Jarl. Until the war comes to us we stay put."''<br />
<br />
Now, that doesn’t make any sense – can you check the CK and see what order they’re in? Or maybe the convo is bugged? Thanks! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:13, 27 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Why can't all your questions be this easy? ;) The dialogue is just in the wrong order—"Another day..." comes first, then the rest of the lines are in the order you have them. Apart from that, there's absolutely nothing special about this scene at all. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:22, 28 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:: Thanks a lot! Better safe than sorry! :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:55, 1 September 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alphabetface&diff=1385501User talk:Alphabetface2014-08-27T22:14:35Z<p>Krusty: /* Mail */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Page Icon|Icon-Email.png|E-mail Alphabetface|Special:EmailUser/Alphabetface|16}}<br />
<br />
== Welcome Back! ==<br />
OMG! OMG! It's Alphabetface! OMG! Errr...I mean...welcome back! :Þ <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 13:48, 20 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
:LOL. Thanks, RH. I don't really know ''how'' back I am, but hi! :) — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 23:06, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Even if you can't spend that much time, it's still just nice seeing you around again ABC! --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 23:34, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Thanks AKB! I do miss it, and hope to be around more, even if it's not much. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 23:52, 28 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::D'oh! I never even noticed I posted this to your user page. That's what you get for making it a redirect. ;) <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:28, 29 May 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Black-Briar mead ==<br />
<br />
Hiya, Can I ask why you have capitalised the M in mead for Black-Briar mead in Duskglow Crevice, when Nord mead is shown as a small m. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 11:39, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Nord mead is just generic mead, but Black-Brair Mead is a brand name. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 12:14, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Mail ==<br />
<br />
Miss Face, please check your mail. :) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:14, 27 August 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:RobinHood70&diff=1385500User talk:RobinHood702014-08-27T22:13:12Z<p>Krusty: /* Conversations */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ {{SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/MOTD}}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{/StdHeader}}<br />
<br />
== Axius! ==<br />
<br />
Hey RobinHood70! I know you are under the weather, and here’s hoping for a speedy recovery. I have a few questions about one [[Skyrim:Bassianus Axius|Bassianus Axius]], for now stashed away in my sandbox [[User:Krusty/Sandbox6|here]]. First, I can’t trigger his third greeting (''"Is it absolutely necessary for you to bother me right now?"''), so maybe you can find the conditions? Second, I have a hard time figuring out when he will leave for Riften, with or without Fastred. Also, was he supposed to have a schedule in Riften? All the best, and no rush! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:38, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I took a look at the dialogue, that line (which I also have never heard before), has a condition "GetTalkedToPC = 0", which I assume means he says it when he's never talked to you, so yeah I see how that would not make sense, considering it's the third line, and the other two take precedence over it. As for him moving to Riften, it's a bit difficult to understand all these things, but it seems to be handled by a "post quest", and all I can see there is that they are removed from the Ivarsteadfaction and added to the Riftenfaction, and they are moved to the bunkhouse. If he has a schedule for Riften, I don't know what it is. I'm guessing this post quest is activated when the quest is finished, I believe I've read they move to Riften when the whole quest is completed, and not just their part of the quest ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 21:52, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: Hey Dwarf; I also noticed that strange condition, and I guess it’s an unused line. As for the schedule in Riften, I’l have to complete the quest in its entirety and make sure it is stated correctly – right now, I’ve used the old text.--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:03, 22 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: As you've probably gathered from my FB posts, I'm hoping for a rather big change tomorrow afternoon. We'll see how that goes. Anyway, onto business....<br />
<br />
::: Dwarf's already explained the dialogue issue. I have nothing further to add there. Bassianius' schedule in Riften is that he sleeps in the bunkhouse from 8pm-4am and then wanders Riften randomly after that. Dwarf: this is defined by the packages added to his Alias in T02PostQuest.<br />
<br />
::: Oh and strangely enough, the post quest kicks in part-way through the quest, when you receive the objective to "Find Fenrig". From the comments in the code, this was done so you couldn't possibly be somewhere that you would see him teleport suddenly into Riften. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:00, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: Thank you so much, both of you. I’ll take a look in-game for good measure, then launch the page. ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:58, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::: Damn, another bug – it seems like he never sleeps in Riften, but instead just wanders around 24 hours a day (Fastred too). Lack of beds…? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:09, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::: I wondered about that when I was looking at it. It looks like there's a minor bug in the sleeping schedule in that it doesn't actually specify where he's supposed to sleep. I ''think'' that would mean he'd sleep wherever he might find a bed if he's close enough, but I'm not sure. It could be that the goof just causes that package to be ignored altogether. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:42, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}} Yeah, from looking at his behavior, he seems very interested in Balimund's forge and spends half the night staring at it. That's all I can come up, but he's definitely not going near the Bunkhouse. I'll add the bug and the patch people can hopefully solve it. ;) --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:08, 23 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Logrolf the Willful ==<br />
<br />
Hey RH! Congratulations on that first cup of coffee! A few more of my usual questions, this time about [[Skyrim:Logrolf the Willful|Logrolf the Willful]]. I’m [[User:Krusty/Sandbox10|writing an article]] on him, and there are a few loose ends; <br />
* When exactly will he spawn? <br />
* Speech skill required to pass the persuade option when he is trapped?<br />
* Will he travel or teleport to the Abandoned House in Markarth? <br />
Hope you can find the time! ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 20:47, 27 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:He's moved to the correct location and enabled when the relevant part of [[Skyrim:The House of Horrors|The House of Horrors]] starts (stage 80). The speechcraft check is Average, so 50/35. As for travelling or teleporting, I think the answer is "either". It'd need some quick in-game testing, but I suspect if you follow him closely, he'll run all the way there, but there's clearly some code to just teleport him there if he's "unloaded". That might just mean he'll run out of the dungeon and then teleport, though. Not sure. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:10, 27 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
:: I just took a look at him after freeing him from Broken Tower Redoubt, and it seems like he just teleports to Markarth upon leaving the cell/dungeon. I guess he may run all the way to Markarth if he is trapped in an exterior Forsworn camp, but with this save I get Broken Tower Redoubt, regardless of what I do so I can't fully test it. Anyway, thanks for the help - small question though, about the 50/35-thingy. Is that a required Speech skill of 50? Or where does the 35 come from? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 03:56, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
::: 35 is what it is if you have the Persuasion perk. So yeah, it's normally 50. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 04:52, 28 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cyclic redirects ==<br />
<br />
Hi there! I wonder if this may be something you could help with. Would it be possible to remove the link from {{tl|Place Link}} if and only if the linked page redirects back to the page with the Place Link on?<br />
<br />
As an example: the ESO stall [[Online:Bridgeside Market|Bridgeside Market]] is a redirect to the marketplace [[Online:Dockside Trading Stalls|Dockside Trading Stalls]] (it was discussed between myself, Jeancey and Alarra back in April on IRC that stalls should redirect to their parent marketplaces), but it is pertinent to list Bridgeside Market on Dockside Trading Stalls, as that is where it is, and the Place Link is the easiest way to do this. So, clicking on Bridgeside Market from Dockside Trading Stalls takes you right back to Dockside Trading Stalls again. It would make more sense, if possible, for the link to be disabled in a case such as this.<br />
<br />
Thanks for any help, and I'll happily try to explain it in a different way if this makes no sense! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:29, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Templates have no way of detecting a redirect, but I've added a <code>nolink</code> parameter to the template, which will serve a similar purpose. You can see that I've added it to the Dockside Trading Stalls page already as an example. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:47, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I wondered whether that might be the only way. But defining the local variable definitely reduces the leg-work that I would otherwise have seen by adding nolink to every individual link, so that's great, thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:56, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::If there are enough of them that it's warranted, I can put the bot on it, but only if there are a lot; if there's only like 30 or 40 pages that would be affected, it's easier for a human to do it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 19:59, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::No thanks, we don't have many of the store and marketplace pages made yet anyway. Here's another one for you though: any idea why Place Link does not load the settlement parameter from the page it is linking? See the map links for [[ON:Port Hunding|Port Hunding]]'s Shops and Services. They are linking to the Stros M'Kai map rather than the Port Hunding map, despite the fact that the map links on the pages themselves are working. As far as I understand what I coded for Place Link, it should be linking to world={{{settlement}}} if settlement is defined on the page that is loaded. (The links on [[ON:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]] and [[ON:Wayrest|Wayrest]] only work because I forced the zone parameter to them.) --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:07, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::The template wasn't saving the settlement info, so Place Link couldn't pick it up. It'll take a while for the wiki to go through and update all of them, but in theory, they should all be fixed once the [[Special:Statistics|job queue]] is back down to 0. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:16, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::::Ah what a nut. Can't load something I never saved, can I? :P &nbsp; Thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:17, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::::It ''can'' be a tad difficult, yeah. You could always insert random information instead and wait to see how long it takes people to notice. :P <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:21, 9 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== P on your parade ==<br />
<br />
The place pages (Place A etc) all sort under 'P' now. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks, I'll have a look at the tempate and fix it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cookies ==<br />
<br />
Can I send someone a cookie? It's for fulfilling some of my many image requests. Cheers. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 01:19, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Yes, anyone can send someone else cookies at any time. Just add {{tl|Cookie}} (or any of the other [[:Category:Prize Templates|Prize Templates]]) along with your message, and you're off to the races. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:22, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Templates using NS_BASE instead of NS_ID for mapicons ==<br />
<br />
I have been noticing that several <nowiki>{{Place Link}}</nowiki> have been causing images to break. When you hover over the broken image, it uses the NS_BASE (ex. Skyrim) instead of the NS_ID (ex. SR) in the beginning of the image name. I did a [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/sandbox|test]] where I changed ''<nowiki>{{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_BASE}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}</nowiki>'' to ''<nowiki>{{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_ID}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}</nowiki>''. The page can be transcluded just fine with that change, but I was wondering if there was a specific reason to have NS_BASE, and if it would be safe to change for the actual template? Jeancey also pointed out that the <nowiki>{{Place Summary}}</nowiki> has broken images, so I [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis/Spectatio|changed]] it in a sandbox. ''<nowiki>#define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_base|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}}</nowiki>'' was changed to ''<nowiki>#define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_id|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}}</nowiki>'' in that template. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 18:27, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:The place links break due to bad caching just so you know, a simple null edit always fixes them. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:34, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::I've tried that before, but it seems hit or miss if the null edit works. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 18:38, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::{{ec}}The first change you mention would actually cause the check to fail all the time because NS_ID would return "OB", for instance, not "Oblivion". <s>You're right that there's something wrong with it, though, because NS_BASE would never return a secondary namespace like Shivering, it would return Oblivion. Tribunal is noticeably excluded in that list, which means the check should be on NS_NAME, not NS_BASE.</s> Your second change is close, but you'd only want to change the capitalized NS_BASE; the lower-case one is a special parameter name and should stay the same. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:45, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Just to wrap this up (I think), I didn't actually change anything substantive in the Place Link template—I only removed a bunch of unnecessary code. I suspect that, as Silencer said, this is just a case of the caching issues. If anyone sees it happening again, tell me exactly what page it's happening on and exactly what the image name was. I can't see anything that would use the full name rather than the ID. Even if it fails, it should just be blank, so I'm really confused as to why the long namespace name would be showing up anywhere. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:20, 16 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Lorepage Parameter ==<br />
<br />
Since you implemented the lorepage parameter for several of the summary boxes, I was wondering if you could help out with [[Online:Varen Aquilarios|this issue]]. The link becomes illegible due to the blue background for Imperials. Is it possible to change the link's colour along with the name's? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 26 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Done. If the lorepage parameter is actually specified as a full link (not sure if that's ever done), the colour change will have to be done there, but for most of them, it should be fixed now. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:25, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Cleanup categories ==<br />
<br />
Hey, I think something in [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACleanup&diff=1367270&oldid=1367261 the change] you made to the Cleanup template broke the namespace categorization, as all the [[:Category:Pages Needing Cleanup|categories]] are empty. I looked to see if I could identify a problem, but I am not adept enough with wiki markup to penetrate the template's switches and everything. -- [[User:Hargrimm|Hargrimm]]<sup>[[User talk:Hargrimm|(T)]]</sup> 05:06, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:That was an easy mistake to make and could've been tough to spot, but thankfully I clued in quickly. The categories should be repopulated shortly. Thanks for letting me know! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 05:16, 27 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== South of Skyrim ==<br />
<br />
Just saying that I haven't forgotten about this. I'm currently doing a Dawnguard playthrough but on my next playthrough, if nothing else I'll use my cellphone to take photos of the journey. They'll be pretty low quality but hopefully will show you where I'm talking about.<br />
<br />
In the meantime if you know anyone with a 360 you could have a go at trying to follow the directions on it. Both of the two of us who reported finding this area were on XBox, it might be a platform-specific glitch. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 00:20, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Even something low quality will be enough to make sure that I'm going where you're going. Platform-specific glitches are very rare, but not unheard of, so it could well be. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 00:44, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== API returning 500 ==<br />
<br />
Hi there! Not sure where best to report this, but I figure you can either deal with it or point me the right way.<br />
<br />
My userjs queries <code>http://uesp.net/w/api.php?action=query&list=recentchanges&format=json&rclimit=10&rcprop=user|parsedcomment|timestamp|title|flags&rcshow=!bot</code> to show a "AJAX" recent changes in the sidebar. This seems to be returning error 500 recently (i.e. I just noticed it today and it wasn't happening two weeks ago. That's the most specificity I got, sorry). This of course breaks my sidebar RC which... makes me a sad battery. :(<br />
<br />
Any ideas why? Anything I can do to fix it? (I've watchlisted, feel free to reply here) <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 20:18, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:P.S. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/User:DimeCadmium/dcutil.js is the code, specifically doRCTimer(). <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 20:24, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Not a clue why this is happening. Trying the same query on the development server works fine, so it may be a bug that's been fixed between 1.19 and 1.22. Of course, if it was working fine a couple of weeks ago, that wouldn't seem likely. I'll poke around a bit and see what I can find. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:47, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Okay, as long as you're on one of the main servers (not mobile), it should be working now. Apparently, somewhere in the new MetaTemplate API, I've used something that only works with a version higher than 1.19. I'll have to chase it down. In the meantime, I've temporarily disabled the MetaTemplate API. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 20:58, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Yay! I figured it had something to do with [[UESPWiki:Dev History#31_July_2014|this]]. :P Thankee <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#0000FF"><em>DimeCadmium</em></span>]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|<span style="color:#00aa00">...!!1!</span>]] 21:04, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, as soon as I realized that you'd said it had worked a couple of weeks ago, I clued in that it must be the changes I'd made yesterday. As it turns out, it wasn't something I'd added, but something I hadn't. There's a long-unused function that you still have to include, even though it's not used. They finally removed it entirely in 1.21. I'll have it updated on all our servers shortly. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:27, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Needed Hyphen? ==<br />
<br />
Hiya, just been looking at watchlist and noticed your comment on the Bloodlet Throne page update where you say the a hyphen is needed to show that the lock is adept not the gate. Not sure what an adept gate is? I've been showing locks without using a hyphen forever. There was a discussion a long while ago (not me) that as there isn't a standard way of showing locks we should continue using the methods we were using. I've had a quick look for it, but can't remember where or even who. Sorry to be a pain. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:18, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:(I've copied your "getting sick" poem as well) [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::I'm not sure what an adept gate is either, so common sense tells you it's an adept lock (at least in context...it's not like that makes sense in real life, either). Grammatically, it's the same as if you'd said "you'll see a red locked gate", for example. Is the gate red and it's locked, or is there a red lock on the gate? Just googling for it, though, it seems that it's a matter of where you grew up to some extent ([http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/hyphens_in_compound_adjectives.htm example]). I wasn't aware of this. I know they're sometimes dropped in other common-use scenarios (like I could've dropped it just there, perhaps), so between that and Americans dropping them sometimes anyway, if you say there's a conversation about it somewhere, I'll defer to that. It'll drive me batty not to hyphenate a compound adjective even when it's obvious what applies to what, but I'm sure I'll survive.<br />
<br />
::And you're welcome to the poem. I stole it from somewhere else, myself, so I can hardly complain! :Þ <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::I've been adding the hypen to your pages whenever I fix them up, Biffa. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:50, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::Ditto, anywhere I see it without, I add it. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 15:57, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
{{od}}Hyphenation and comma use vary greatly between different dialects of English. It's not a big deal. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 16:06, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Unique Items ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rob. I'm working on the item pages for [[Skyrim:Unique Items|Unique Items]] and I have a couple creation kit things I was hoping you could clear up for me, when you get the chance. <br />
*During [[Skyrim:The Bonds of Matrimony]], Maramal says that he gives a ring to both the player and the player's spouse. Does he actually give a ring to your spouse?<br />
*Does [[Skyrim:Reveler|the Reveler]] actually carry the Charmed Necklace on his person, or can you only obtain it by trading him the bottle of mead?<br />
*I found [http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00068b72 this dialogue] referencing the [[Skyrim:Nightweaver's Band|Nightweaver's Band]] in the cslist. Will it ever be spoken by Festus? It doesn't seem to be connected to the quest in any way. <br />
<br />
Thanks in advance. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 16:38, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that Festus says that line of dialogue when you return to the sanctuary after [[Skyrim:Recipe for Disaster|Recipe for Disaster]]. You only get the ring if you hide the corpse I think. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::{{ec}}Wait...someone besides Krusty is asking me for a CK verification?!? I'm all lost and confused! :Þ In order:<br />
::* Yes, and it's the exact same ring you get.<br />
::* Yes, it should be on his person. I don't know what (if anything) controls whether something can be pickpocketed, beyond the obvious perks, so in-game verification might be good on that count. I'm fairly sure it would show in his inventory if you kill him, though.<br />
::* It looks like it should be (and Legoless confirmed it while I was getting ec'd), provided that you do everything including hiding the body. The reason it doesn't look connected in CSList is that it's what's called a shared dialogue. That means it's used in more than one place. Those are stored a bit differently, and I don't think CSList links them properly. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 17:49, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Thanks a lot. --[[User:Anil|AN&#124;L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 18:09, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::I can confirm the reveler; it's on his body if he dies, he got killed by monsters on my last playthrough. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 18:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::::You can buy the ring from your spouse once they open their shop. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 22:00, 9 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Wikia images ==<br />
<br />
Hey Robin. As per the trainwreck you witnessed over on the wikia, you may have guessed I'm no longer admin. As such, I won't be able to delete any future plagiarized images - however I definitely suggest contacting the admins EbonySkyrim or TombRaiser, who will gladly deal with such issues. Thanks! --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 14:59, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for letting me know. It's good to have specific names to go to. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:12, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Email ==<br />
<br />
Hi Robin, please check your email as soon as you can, and maybe hop into chat. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 15:35, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Give me a few minutes. I'm gonna have to reconfigure my IRC to go by the IP address. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 15:49, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Arena Summerset ==<br />
<br />
Look at the map, it has both islands, it is the province. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:13, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:Actually, looking at Arena more in depth, I'm inclined to agree. There's at least one mention of "Summurset Province" along with several "Summurset Isle" and "city of Summurset" references. The fact that there's at least one province and that there are named cities on the second isle convinces me, though. I'll go change the transclusion. I'll leave the page with the "u" spelling, though, as that's the word used exclusively in the text in Arena. The only place I found "Summerset" in Arena was in the executable and I'm not sure if that ever shows up in game. It definitely makes sense to leave the redirect in place, though, given that they seem to have settled on "Summerset" later. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:27, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::It still needs moved back to the plural 'isles'. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 18:40, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::It's exclusively singular in Arena. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 18:45, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::It appears so, which may cause problems if an island pages is desired, but that can be dealt with if it happens. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 19:05, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Weird Bug with Battlespire Books ==<br />
<br />
Hello Robin, notice at the bottom of the page the red link for an unused template under the [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Battlespire:A_Short_History_of_The_Augmented_Craftworks&action=edit most recent version]? Do you have any clue what is causing that? --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 01:56, 16 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I was just looking at that, actually. The template's a bit oddly designed, but I'm going to leave it alone for now and just continue the way we were doing things. Silencer had the right idea. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 01:58, 16 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Book Summary ==<br />
<br />
I've undone your edit to the book summary as it causes the summary to work twice on a page, though only display once. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 14:57, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:I'll have a closer look at it. Thanks for letting me know. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:25, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::Yup, my fault completely. I goofed on which set of curly brackets went with which. They really need to redesign templates to allow formatting the code more cleanly so mistakes like that are harder to make. I could reinstate the div optimization, but not really worth going back and forth for no actual change in functionality. Whenever I start ''Project: Template Cleanup II'', I'll redo that. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:35, 17 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Conversations ==<br />
<br />
Hey RobinHood70. I’m looking at a strange scene, <code> DialogueFalkreathGrayPineGoodsScene01</code>, and there are four lines of dialogue, for a conversation between [[Skyrim:Bolund|Bolund]] and [[Skyrim:Solaf|Solaf]]. The lines are as follows: <br />
<br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is a fine place to be, Bolund."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Another day in this graveyard."''<br><br />
'''Bolund''': ''"Falkreath is where people go to die. We could be fighting, taking back Nord land!"''<br><br />
'''Solaf''': ''"Falkreath is our home, a place where we have good jobs under a good Jarl. Until the war comes to us we stay put."''<br />
<br />
Now, that doesn’t make any sense – can you check the CK and see what order they’re in? Or maybe the convo is bugged? Thanks! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:13, 27 August 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Image_Requests&diff=1385208UESPWiki:Image Requests2014-08-27T06:07:02Z<p>Krusty: /* Images Requested */ removed finished requests</p>
<hr />
<div>On this page, editors may make '''specific image requests''' for use on article pages. Image requests should always pertain to content-related articles which are ready for the images; this is ''not'' a place to request images for personal use. <br />
<br />
Avoid making general requests, such as "''more pictures of the Battle for Solitude''". A better request would be more specific, such as "''the Stormcloaks at the outer gate before the Battle for Solitude''". Try to keep requests brief, but if the subject matter isn't perfectly obvious, please explain your request by providing details, such as the context of the article where the image will be placed.<br />
<br />
This page is meant for ''specific'' image requests for use on articles which already include a basic image. Note that the {{tl|NeedsImage}} template should be used on pages which are missing basic images, and is automatically added to pages missing the <code>image</code> parameter in Summary templates for creature, NPC, and place pages.<br />
<br />
==Using this Page==<br />
===Posting a Request===<br />
Please post your requests under the [[#Images Requested|Images Requested]] section in a bulletlist format, and sign your post. Please add the most recent requests to the bottom of the list. Provide a link to the article page, specifying the game in your request. If requesting multiple images for use on the same article, group the related images into a list below said link to the article page, then sign below the full list.<br />
<br />
'''Example''':<br />
{{Example Table|<br />
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Waking Nightmare]]'''<br />
*[[Skyrim:Erandur|Erandur]] opening the way further into [[Skyrim:Nightcaller Temple|Nightcaller Temple]] during [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]]<br />
—[[User:ABCface|<font color="Teal">ABCface</font>]] 16:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness]]'''<br />
*The [[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Gatekeeper]] laying a beating on the adventurers at the [[Shivering:Gates_of_Madness|Gates of Madness]] at the start of [[Shivering:Through_the_Fringe_of_Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]] (Shivering Isles)<br />
—[[User:Alphabetface|<font color="Teal">Alphabetface</font>]] 19:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''NOTE''': If you post a request, please realize that it takes time to take good images; therefore, please consider your requests carefully so image providers don't waste time taking images you don't need. <br />
<br />
===Fulfilling a Request===<br />
If you fulfill a request, please strike out the request by using <code><nowiki><s></nowiki></code> at the beginning and <code><nowiki></s></nowiki></code> at the end, then add a link to the uploaded image directly below the request with your signature included. Do not add the image to the related page; the editor who requested the image should do this themselves. You do not need to provide a thumbnail image. Make sure that the images you upload follow the site's [[Help:Images|image guidelines]].<br />
<br />
'''Example''':<br />
{{Example Table|<br />
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Waking Nightmare]]'''<br />
*<s>[[Skyrim:Erandur|Erandur]] opening the way further into [[Skyrim:Nightcaller Temple|Nightcaller Temple]] during [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]]</s> <br />
**[[:File:SR-quest-Waking Nightmare 1.jpg]] —[[User:Kimi the Elf|Kimi the Elf]] 08:38, 14 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
—[[User:ABCface|<font color="Teal">ABCface</font>]] 16:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness]]'''<br />
*<s>The [[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Gatekeeper]] laying a beating on the adventurers at the [[Shivering:Gates_of_Madness|Gates of Madness]] at the start of [[Shivering:Through_the_Fringe_of_Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]] (Shivering Isles)</s> <br />
**[[:File:SI-quest-Through the Fringe of Madness.jpg]] —[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] 23:22, 29 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
—[[User:Alphabetface|<font color="Teal">Alphabetface</font>]] 19:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''NOTE''': If you fulfill a request, please realize that the author of the article has spent hours, maybe days, writing the article and is hoping for top-notch images to match his/her work. The author can at all times request a new version of the image should the provided image not meet his/her requirements. <br />
<br />
===Removing a Request===<br />
Only the editor who requested an image should remove the completed request. That editor should first add the new image to the corresponding article before removing the request from this page.<br />
<br />
==Images Requested==<br />
<br />
All Skyrim Place requests for Biffa<br />
[[User:Biffa/sandbox/image requests|User:Biffa/sandbox/image requests]]<br />
Thank you. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 16:30, 30 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: {{Lore Link|The Towers}}'''<br />
<br />
I'm working on a lore article for the Towers, and it could some more images from ESO:<br />
* A better image of the Direnni Tower<br />
** Just a comment, there's a poor quality version available [[:File:ON-place-Direnni Tower.jpg|here]]. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 13:12, 6 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
*** Indeed, but I find the Daggerfall image preferable to that at the moment. Way too obscured there. I'm hoping that players have found or will find a better way to grab an image of it. [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:medium"><font color="Green">Minor Edits</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 13:26, 6 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
****I think it will be difficult to get a non-misty image, as apparently it's not possible to swim out too far towards the isle. [http://imgur.com/a/3u2v5 Here is an imgur gallery of two shots], not great, I know. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 13:43, 11 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
*****I think those demonstrate that we can at least get an image with better resolution. The mist is tolerable (even thematically appropriate), but the current ESO image Lego linked to from the beta is sub-par in terms of quality. [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:medium"><font color="Green">Insignificant Revisions</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 14:21, 11 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
* A better image of the Red Mountain (if possible).<br />
* An image of the Crystal Tower (if possible).<br />
* An image of the Elden Tree and/or the Orrery of Elden Root.<br />
[[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:medium"><font color="Green">Minor Edits</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 02:55, 6 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Oblivion:Sideways Cave]]'''<br />
*The waterfall exit in the Hidden Lake zone<br />
*A nice shot inside Abagarlas, maybe with skeletons and roots<br />
*Meridia's shrine<br />
*An Ayleid tablet<br />
*Maybe an image from the first zone?<br />
—[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 19:46, 24 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Lore:Uncle Leo]] (and [[Online:Uncle Leo]])'''<br />
* Uncle Leo plz<br />
—[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:20, 2 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Shivering:The Helpless Army]] and [[Lore:Azure Plasma]]'''<br />
*Wellsprings of Mazken and Aureal, de-Ordered<br />
—[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:58, 21 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Lore:Wuuthrad]]'''<br />
* ESO: An image of a shard/s of Wuuthrad, if possible.<br />
Thanks! --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 16:41, 2 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Oblivion:The Temple of the One]]'''<br />
* An image of the interior after Oblivion's main quest<br />
'''<font color="black">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="000000">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|#:)]]</font></sup>''' 11:46, 6 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Maven Black-Briar]] ([[User:Krusty/Sandbox2|SANDBOX)]]'''<br />
*A 4:3 image of Aringoth <br />
*A 4:3 image of Mallus Maccius, behind the counter at Honningbrew. <br />
*Another 4:3 image of Maven as Jarl. Note that it needs to be different from the [[:File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_02.jpg|this one]].<br />
*An image of Maven and Mau talking in Mistveil Keep<br />
*An image of Maven and Grelka talking in the market<br />
*An image of Maven and Wilvulf talking at Bee and Barb<br />
*An image of Maven and Ingun talking<br />
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 00:17, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[UESPWiki:Creation Kit Information Requests|Creation Kit Information Requests]] - Specific Creation Kit information requests for articles can be made here.<br />
*[[:Category:All Pages Needing Images]] - Pages marked with the {{tl|NeedsImage}} template are listed on this page.<br />
*[[Help:Images]] - A summary of information related to uploading and editing images.<br />
*[[UESPWiki:Shivering_Isles_Redesign_Project/Wanted_Images|Shivering Isles Redesign Project/Wanted Images]] - All images wanted for pages related to the Shivering Isles Redesign Project are listed on this page.<br />
<br />
[[Category:UESP Administration]]</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1385207User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-08-27T06:06:18Z<p>Krusty: + images; thanks AKB!</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Krusty<br />
|checkedBy=<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in the name of the Daedric Prince, [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]]. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice. <br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experience its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are in Falkreath for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius...and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways. <br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies, who can usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies last words will be: What could drive a man to do something like this?<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is build in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. In the northeastern cell sits Sinding, the supposed killer, waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring.<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free. You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell. Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set of at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine. Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me. At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you. <br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man’s Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]] already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]] is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%" <br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
|style="width:50%" align="right"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; right: 9em;"> '''Hircine's Will'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|style="padding-right:1em"|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_6.jpg|thumb|left|Hunted down]]If you choose to follow Hircine’s will, you will have no choice but to challenge Sinding, who will respect your decision: ''"So be it."'' After that, he will jump down from the ledge, and you must hunt him down. At this point, several hunters will spawn in the cave, all of them under oath to the Daedric Prince, and they will all go for Sinding. Make your way up the stairs to the northeast and pass through the small ruin. As you make your way down in a western direction, you will stumble upon the bodies of several dead hunters, all of them too weak to kill Sinding. When you reach a small streamlet, Sinding should be finished with the hunters and will come rushing towards you. You will have no choice but to pick the fight and slay him. Activate the dead body and claim his [[Skyrim:Sinding's Skin|skin]], and the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]], a ghostly version of Sinding himself, will manifest before you, saying: ''"You've done well, hunter."'' When told that you did as commanded, he will respond: ''"And found my favor. That skin will serve you well, child. Look more closely at it. My glories shall protect you from all this world's grievances. Good hunting."'' He will then remove the [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|cursed ring]], and change Sinding’s skin to the reward, the unique [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]].<br />
|}<br />
|<br />
{| class="hiddentable vtop" width="100%" <br />
|style="width:50%" align="left"| <div style="position: relative; bottom: 0em; left: 9em;"> '''Help Sinding'''</div><br />
|-<br />
|[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_5.jpg|thumb|right|Hunter vs Hunter]] If you choose to go against Hircine’s will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
{{NewLine}}<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE:''' It is entirely possible to obtain both rewards, or both rings, although it could be considered cheating. Please click the show button for tips and tricks: {{Showhide/Start|Tips and Tricks →}}<br />
<br />
'''MULTIPLE REWARDS'''<br><br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
'''BOTH RINGS'''<br><br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
}}<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Batum_gra-Bar&diff=1385128Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar2014-08-26T22:31:59Z<p>Krusty: de-stubbed</p>
<hr />
<div>{{NPC Summary<br />
|loc=[[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|level=1<br />
|race=Orc<br />
|gender=Female<br />
|class=[[Skyrim:Bandit (class)|Bandit]]<br />
|faction={{Faction|DA05HuntersOfHircineFaction}}<br />
|refid=000955C0<br />
|baseid=000CE09C<br />
|image=SR-npc-Batum gra-Bar.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Batum gra-Bar<br />
|health=0<br />
|magicka=<br />
|voicetype=FemaleOrc<br />
}}<br />
'''Batum gra-Bar''' is a dead [[Skyrim:Orc|Orc]] [[Skyrim:Bandit (class)|bandit]], and one of the hunters who shows up in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] hunting [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]. When you arrive, she is dead at the first campfire, presumably from wounds sustained fighting Sinding. She only spawns during the [[Skyrim:Ill Met By Moonlight|related quest]]. <br />
<br />
She wears [[Skyrim:Hide Armor|hide armor]], [[Skyrim:Hide Bracers|hide bracers]], a [[Skyrim:Hide Helmet|hide helmet]] and [[Skyrim:Hide Boots|hide boots]]. She wields a leveled [[Skyrim:Sword|sword]] and a leveled [[Skyrim:Bow|bow]] with leveled [[Skyrim:Arrows|arrows]], all of which may be up to [[Skyrim:Elven|elven]] in quality at level 22. She also carries at least 25 gold. <br />
<br />
{{NewLeft}}<br />
== Related Quests ==<br />
* {{Quest Link|Ill Met By Moonlight}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1385121User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-08-26T22:19:28Z<p>Krusty: wip</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Krusty<br />
|checkedBy=<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in the name of the Daedric Prince, [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]]. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice. <br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experience its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are in Falkreath for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius...and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways. <br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies, who can usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies last words will be: What could drive a man to do something like this?<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is build in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. In the northeastern cell sits Sinding, the supposed killer, waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring.<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free. You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell. Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set of at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine. Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me. At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you. <br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man’s Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]] already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]] is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
<br />
===Hircine's Will===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill Met by Moonlight 2.jpg|thumb|right|Be ready to fight.]]<br />
If you choose to follow Hircine’s will, you will have no choice but to challenge Sinding, who will respect your decision: ''"So be it."'' After that, he will jump down from the ledge, and you must hunt him down. At this point, several hunters will spawn in the cave, all of them under oath to the Daedric Prince, and they will all go for Sinding. Make your way up the stairs to the northeast and pass through the small ruin. As you make your way down in a western direction, you will stumble upon the bodies of several dead hunters, all of them too weak to kill Sinding. When you reach a small streamlet, Sinding should be finished with the hunters and will come rushing towards you. You will have no choice but to pick the fight and slay him. Activate the dead body and claim his [[Skyrim:Sinding's Skin|skin]], and the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]], a ghostly version of Sinding himself, will manifest before you, saying: ''"You've done well, hunter."'' When told that you did as commanded, he will respond: ''"And found my favor. That skin will serve you well, child. Look more closely at it. My glories shall protect you from all this world's grievances. Good hunting."'' He will then remove the [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|cursed ring]], and change Sinding’s skin to the reward, the unique [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]].<br />
<br />
===Helping Sinding===<br />
If you choose to go against Hircine’s will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE:''' It is entirely possible to obtain both rewards, or both rings, although it could be considered cheating. Please click the show button for tips and tricks: {{Showhide/Start|Tips and Tricks →}}<br />
<br />
'''MULTIPLE REWARDS'''<br><br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
'''BOTH RINGS'''<br><br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
{{Showhide/End}}<br />
}}<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1385102User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-08-26T21:41:50Z<p>Krusty: /* Hircine's Will */</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Multiple<br />
|checkedBy=Dragon Guard<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] name; choose between killing a [[Skyrim:Werewolf|werewolf]] or saving [[Skyrim:Sinding|his]] life. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice. <br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experience its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are in Falkreath for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius...and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways. <br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies whocan usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies last words will be: What could drive a man to do something like this?<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is build in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. In the northeastern cell sits Sinding, the supposed killer, waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring.<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free. You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell. Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set of at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine. Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me. At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you. <br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man’s Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]] already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]] is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
<br />
===Hircine's Will===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill Met by Moonlight 2.jpg|thumb|right|Be ready to fight.]]<br />
If you choose to follow Hircine’s will, you will have no choice but to challenge Sinding, who will respect your decision: ''"So be it."'' After that, he will jump down from the ledge, and you must hunt him down. At this point, several hunters will spawn in the cave, all of them under oath to the Daedric Prince, and they will all go for Sinding. Make your way up the stairs to the northeast and pass through the small ruin. As you make your way down in a western direction, you will stumble upon the bodies of several dead hunters, all of them too weak to kill Sinding. When you reach a small streamlet, Sinding should be finished with the hunters and will come rushing towards you. You will have no choice but to pick the fight and slay him. Activate the dead body and claim his [[Skyrim:Sinding's Skin|skin]], and the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]], a ghostly version of Sinding himself, will manifest before you, saying: ''"You've done well, hunter."'' When told that you did as commanded, he will respond: ''"And found my favor. That skin will serve you well, child. Look more closely at it. My glories shall protect you from all this world's grievances. Good hunting."'' He will then remove the [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|cursed ring]], and change Sinding’s skin to the reward, the unique [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]].<br />
<br />
===Helping Sinding===<br />
If you choose to go against Hircine’s will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
<br />
==Multiple Rewards==<br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
===Both rings===<br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Image_Requests&diff=1384834UESPWiki:Image Requests2014-08-25T22:58:30Z<p>Krusty: /* Images Requested */ 2 action shots requested for Skyrim:Ill Met By Moonlight</p>
<hr />
<div>On this page, editors may make '''specific image requests''' for use on article pages. Image requests should always pertain to content-related articles which are ready for the images; this is ''not'' a place to request images for personal use. <br />
<br />
Avoid making general requests, such as "''more pictures of the Battle for Solitude''". A better request would be more specific, such as "''the Stormcloaks at the outer gate before the Battle for Solitude''". Try to keep requests brief, but if the subject matter isn't perfectly obvious, please explain your request by providing details, such as the context of the article where the image will be placed.<br />
<br />
This page is meant for ''specific'' image requests for use on articles which already include a basic image. Note that the {{tl|NeedsImage}} template should be used on pages which are missing basic images, and is automatically added to pages missing the <code>image</code> parameter in Summary templates for creature, NPC, and place pages.<br />
<br />
==Using this Page==<br />
===Posting a Request===<br />
Please post your requests under the [[#Images Requested|Images Requested]] section in a bulletlist format, and sign your post. Please add the most recent requests to the bottom of the list. Provide a link to the article page, specifying the game in your request. If requesting multiple images for use on the same article, group the related images into a list below said link to the article page, then sign below the full list.<br />
<br />
'''Example''':<br />
{{Example Table|<br />
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Waking Nightmare]]'''<br />
*[[Skyrim:Erandur|Erandur]] opening the way further into [[Skyrim:Nightcaller Temple|Nightcaller Temple]] during [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]]<br />
—[[User:ABCface|<font color="Teal">ABCface</font>]] 16:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness]]'''<br />
*The [[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Gatekeeper]] laying a beating on the adventurers at the [[Shivering:Gates_of_Madness|Gates of Madness]] at the start of [[Shivering:Through_the_Fringe_of_Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]] (Shivering Isles)<br />
—[[User:Alphabetface|<font color="Teal">Alphabetface</font>]] 19:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''NOTE''': If you post a request, please realize that it takes time to take good images; therefore, please consider your requests carefully so image providers don't waste time taking images you don't need. <br />
<br />
===Fulfilling a Request===<br />
If you fulfill a request, please strike out the request by using <code><nowiki><s></nowiki></code> at the beginning and <code><nowiki></s></nowiki></code> at the end, then add a link to the uploaded image directly below the request with your signature included. Do not add the image to the related page; the editor who requested the image should do this themselves. You do not need to provide a thumbnail image. Make sure that the images you upload follow the site's [[Help:Images|image guidelines]].<br />
<br />
'''Example''':<br />
{{Example Table|<br />
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Waking Nightmare]]'''<br />
*<s>[[Skyrim:Erandur|Erandur]] opening the way further into [[Skyrim:Nightcaller Temple|Nightcaller Temple]] during [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]]</s> <br />
**[[:File:SR-quest-Waking Nightmare 1.jpg]] —[[User:Kimi the Elf|Kimi the Elf]] 08:38, 14 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
—[[User:ABCface|<font color="Teal">ABCface</font>]] 16:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness]]'''<br />
*<s>The [[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Gatekeeper]] laying a beating on the adventurers at the [[Shivering:Gates_of_Madness|Gates of Madness]] at the start of [[Shivering:Through_the_Fringe_of_Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]] (Shivering Isles)</s> <br />
**[[:File:SI-quest-Through the Fringe of Madness.jpg]] —[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] 23:22, 29 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
—[[User:Alphabetface|<font color="Teal">Alphabetface</font>]] 19:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''NOTE''': If you fulfill a request, please realize that the author of the article has spent hours, maybe days, writing the article and is hoping for top-notch images to match his/her work. The author can at all times request a new version of the image should the provided image not meet his/her requirements. <br />
<br />
===Removing a Request===<br />
Only the editor who requested an image should remove the completed request. That editor should first add the new image to the corresponding article before removing the request from this page.<br />
<br />
==Images Requested==<br />
<br />
All Skyrim Place requests for Biffa<br />
[[User:Biffa/sandbox/image requests|User:Biffa/sandbox/image requests]]<br />
Thank you. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 16:30, 30 March 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: {{Lore Link|The Towers}}'''<br />
<br />
I'm working on a lore article for the Towers, and it could some more images from ESO:<br />
* A better image of the Direnni Tower<br />
** Just a comment, there's a poor quality version available [[:File:ON-place-Direnni Tower.jpg|here]]. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 13:12, 6 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
*** Indeed, but I find the Daggerfall image preferable to that at the moment. Way too obscured there. I'm hoping that players have found or will find a better way to grab an image of it. [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:medium"><font color="Green">Minor Edits</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 13:26, 6 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
****I think it will be difficult to get a non-misty image, as apparently it's not possible to swim out too far towards the isle. [http://imgur.com/a/3u2v5 Here is an imgur gallery of two shots], not great, I know. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 13:43, 11 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
*****I think those demonstrate that we can at least get an image with better resolution. The mist is tolerable (even thematically appropriate), but the current ESO image Lego linked to from the beta is sub-par in terms of quality. [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:medium"><font color="Green">Insignificant Revisions</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 14:21, 11 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
* A better image of the Red Mountain (if possible).<br />
* An image of the Crystal Tower (if possible).<br />
* An image of the Elden Tree and/or the Orrery of Elden Root.<br />
[[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:medium"><font color="Green">Minor Edits</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 02:55, 6 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Oblivion:Sideways Cave]]'''<br />
*The waterfall exit in the Hidden Lake zone<br />
*A nice shot inside Abagarlas, maybe with skeletons and roots<br />
*Meridia's shrine<br />
*An Ayleid tablet<br />
*Maybe an image from the first zone?<br />
—[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 19:46, 24 April 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Lore:Uncle Leo]] (and [[Online:Uncle Leo]])'''<br />
* Uncle Leo plz<br />
—[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:20, 2 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Shivering:The Helpless Army]] and [[Lore:Azure Plasma]]'''<br />
*Wellsprings of Mazken and Aureal, de-Ordered<br />
—[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:58, 21 June 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Lore:Wuuthrad]]'''<br />
* ESO: An image of a shard/s of Wuuthrad, if possible.<br />
Thanks! --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 16:41, 2 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Oblivion:The Temple of the One]]'''<br />
* An image of the interior after Oblivion's main quest<br />
'''<font color="black">[[User:Dragon Guard|<span style="line-height:2.0" title="Dragon Guard"><font face="DragonscriptRegular" size="4">DG</font></span>]]</font><sup><font color="000000">[[User talk:Dragon Guard|#:)]]</font></sup>''' 11:46, 6 July 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Maven Black-Briar]] ([[User:Krusty/Sandbox2|SANDBOX)]]'''<br />
*A 4:3 image of Aringoth <br />
*A 4:3 image of Mallus Maccius, behind the counter at Honningbrew. <br />
*Another 4:3 image of Maven as Jarl. Note that it needs to be different from the [[:File:SR-npc-Maven_Black-Briar_02.jpg|this one]].<br />
*An image of Maven and Mau talking in Mistveil Keep<br />
*An image of Maven and Grelka talking in the market<br />
*An image of Maven and Wilvulf talking at Bee and Barb<br />
*An image of Maven and Ingun talking<br />
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 00:17, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Ill Met By Moonlight]]'''<br />
* An image of Sinding fighting the hunters.<br />
* An image of Sinding attacking you. <br />
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:58, 25 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[UESPWiki:Creation Kit Information Requests|Creation Kit Information Requests]] - Specific Creation Kit information requests for articles can be made here.<br />
*[[:Category:All Pages Needing Images]] - Pages marked with the {{tl|NeedsImage}} template are listed on this page.<br />
*[[Help:Images]] - A summary of information related to uploading and editing images.<br />
*[[UESPWiki:Shivering_Isles_Redesign_Project/Wanted_Images|Shivering Isles Redesign Project/Wanted Images]] - All images wanted for pages related to the Shivering Isles Redesign Project are listed on this page.<br />
<br />
[[Category:UESP Administration]]</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Jaree-Ra&diff=1384833Skyrim:Jaree-Ra2014-08-25T22:55:05Z<p>Krusty: /* Light's Out! */ + image</p>
<hr />
<div>{{NPC Summary<br />
|essential=Yes, until he's moved to [[Skyrim:Broken Oar Grotto|Broken Oar Grotto]] during [[Skyrim:Lights Out!|Lights Out!]]<br />
|loc=[[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]], Market<br />
|race=Argonian<br />
|gender=Male<br />
|class=Rogue<br />
|faction={{Faction|Broken Oar Bandits}}; {{Faction|CrimeFactionHaafingar}}; {{Faction|TownSolitudeFaction}}<br />
|refid=000198B9<br />
|baseid=0001328D<br />
|image=SR-npc-Jaree-Ra.jpg<br />
|imgdesc=Jaree-Ra<br />
|skills='''[[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]]''', '''[[Skyrim:Sneak|Sneak]]''', [[Skyrim:Block|Block]], [[Skyrim:Light Armor|Light Armor]]<br />
|aggress=Aggressive<br />
|level=PC&times;1 (range&#061;4-50)<br />
|moral=No Crime<br />
|health=50+(PC-1)&times;10<br />
|magicka=50<br />
|stamina=50+(PC-1)&times;5<br />
|voicetype=MaleArgonian<br />
}}__NOTOC__<br />
'''Jaree-Ra''' is an [[Skyrim:Argonian|Argonian]] [[Skyrim:Rogue|rogue]] residing in [[Skyrim:Angeline's Aromatics|Angeline's Aromatics]] in [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]]. He and his sister [[Skyrim:Deeja|Deeja]] work for [[Skyrim:Vittoria Vici|Vittoria Vici]] at the [[Lore:East Empire Company|East Empire Company]], while his brother [[Skyrim:Gulum-Ei|Gulum-Ei]] is a [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]] fence. With his connections, he has established a racket with the [[Skyrim:Blackblood Marauder|Blackblood Marauders]], committing all kinds of theft. He's looking for someone to help his gang rob a ship on its way to Solitude during [[Skyrim:Lights Out!|Lights Out!]].<br />
<br />
Until you have initiated the quest, Jaree-Ra will hang out in the business district, preferably between Angeline's Aromatics and the pathway leading to [[Skyrim:Castle Dour|Castle Dour]]. When you have heard him out on his task, he will start his daily routine and join Deeja as a dockside worker between 10am and 6pm, when he returns to Angeline. He was supposed to sleep between 2am and 10am but doesn't, due to a [[#Bugs|bug]].<br />
<br />
Jaree-Ra wields an [[Skyrim:Iron Dagger|iron dagger]] and wears [[Skyrim:Hide Armor|hide armor]] with [[Skyrim:Hide Boots|hide boots]]. His treasure hunts apparently provided much wealth, as he carries a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled Lists#Rich|upper-class items and gold]].<br />
<br />
Jaree-Ra is a known name in Solitude, although the townsfolk have differing opinions on the Argonian and his 'jobs'. Before you've listened to Jaree-Ra's offer, when asking innkeeper [[Skyrim:Corpulus Vinius|Corpulus]] for rumors, he may divulge: ''"I've heard Jaree-Ra is hanging around the Wells District, looking for new blood to hire."''; which gives you a miscellaneous objective to seek out Jaree-Ra for possible employment. Fruitvendor [[Skyrim:Jala|Jala]] may too mention him at this point as one of the interesting people she sees: ''"Jaree-Ra stopped by the other day. Told me to keep an eye out for him, see if any new people arrived in the city."'' <br />
<br />
A few people dislike the Argonian with a passion. Inside the [[Skyrim:Solitude Blacksmith|Solitude Blacksmith]], [[Skyrim:Heimvar|Heimvar]] will mention Jaree-Ra when asked how much he earns: ''"If money's all you hold dear, then you {{sic|description=duplicate word|you}} end up like Jaree-Ra. A plague on the city."'' When you ask about his problem with Jaree-Ra, he will continue: ''"[[Skyrim:Captain Aldis|Captain Aldis]] can't prove it, but that Argonian is up to no good."'' Local headsman [[Skyrim:Ahtar|Ahtar]] is even less impressed with Jaree-Ra and will, when asked when his next execution is due, admit: ''"Ain't got one. But I'd fancy a chance at that Jaree-Ra's scrawny neck. Filthy Argonian never would have set foot in this city, if [[Lore:High King Torygg|High King Torygg]] was still alive. I can tell you that."''<br />
<br />
Jaree-Ra may be found discussing business at the docks with his siblings:<br />
<br />
'''Jaree-Ra''': ''"My contact, she says [[Lore:Hammerfell|Hammerfell]] steel is much desired by certain parties."''<br><br />
'''Gulum-Ei''': ''"I know of a ship coming in from Hammerfell. Some cargo might get "lost"..."''<br><br />
'''Deeja''': ''"Why should we settle for half a fin when we could just take the whole whale?"''<br><br />
'''Jaree-Ra''': ''"Patience, sister. Patience."''<br />
<br />
==Related Quests==<br />
*{{Quest Link|Lights Out!}}<br />
<br />
==Light's Out!==<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Jaree-Ra_02.jpg|thumb|right|''"I'm not interested, Jaree."'']]<br />
Initially, you'll see Jaree-Ra unsuccessfully trying to hire [[Skyrim:Sorex Vinius|Sorex Vinius]], likely offering the same job he has to offer you:<br />
<br />
'''Sorex''': ''"I'm not interested, Jaree. It doesn't matter how many times you ask."''<br><br />
'''Jaree-Ra''': ''"You might want to rethink that. You're missing out on some wonderful opportunities, working in that bar."''<br />
<br />
Jaree-Ra hangs out around the shops, and will call out to you as you pass by: ''"I've got a little work if you're interested, traveler."'' and ''"You should see me when you get bored, stranger."'' When you approach him, he'll keep trying to catch your attention: ''"You look new. I'm new, too. I think we could be friends."'', ''"If you're looking for opportunities to make some coin, well... I'm your man."'', and ''"Everyone needs work, right? I have good work for you."'' When you greet him he will get straight to the point: ''"You're passing through Solitude? Maybe you're looking to make some easy gold, yes?"'' When you ask him what he has in mind, he'll explain what he does for a living: ''"It's easy to find things to sell. Things nobody will miss. Things from underground, or just left lying around in someone's house. I bet the two of us, we're very alike. So why not take the next step? We can help each other. My sister Deeja and I are treasure hunters. We like to collect things."'' If you end the conversation from this point on, he'll part with: ''"Just remember I'm here if you rethink your decision."''; in which case, asking him what he suggested before will have him repeat: ''"As I said, it's easy to find things nobody will miss. My sister Deeja and I are treasure hunters. You could be too."'' If you choose to tell him you're no thief, he'll rephrase by implying: ''"Of course not! Thieves take what is precious. Thieves steal. We just take what will not be missed. What no one needs anymore. Maybe we take some weapons and stop a few deaths. Who would call that thievery?"''<br />
[[File:SR-place-Icerunner.jpg|thumb|left|''"We have an interest in one of those boats, the [[Skyrim:The Icerunner|Icerunner]]."'']]<br />
State that you're listening and he'll remark: ''"I knew you looked like a clever one..."'' Then ask him about his offer, and he'll explain: ''"With the war, many more ships come through these docks. Loaded with weapons and pay, but few people. And they pass through dangerous waters. We have an interest in one of those boats, the [[Skyrim:The Icerunner|Icerunner]]. The [[Skyrim:Solitude Lighthouse|Solitude Lighthouse]] will be guiding it in... but if its fire were to go out, the Icerunner would run aground."'' Asking him if he wants you to put out the lighthouse fire, he'll put up a cautious facade with: ''"What an interesting idea. I think if someone were to do something like that, there would definitely be a certain amount of loot to be shared... Yes, if someone were to put out the Lighthouse fire and then meet me on the docks afterwards... I could certainly direct them to that loot."'' If you threaten to turn him into the guards he will remain calm and point out: ''"Turn me in? For what? What crime's been committed? I'm just making idle talk about what would most undoubtedly be a tragic event... A tragic, and very, very profitable event."'' If you ask Jaree-Ra about the fate of the guards he will claim: ''"Don't worry about them. We'll make sure they wash up safe. Maybe they'll even pay us for the heroic rescue from their sad crash."'' He won't take no for an answer and the quest will begin. If you get near him during his daily routine he will remind you: ''"I believe you know what needs to be done. Something about putting out a fire?"''<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Jaree-Ra 03.jpg|thumb|right|''"To Oblivion with your loot! This ends now!"'']]<br />
Once you have shut down the light of Solitude Lighthouse, Jaree-Ra will wait for you on the stairs leading to the dockside, and greet you with: ''"Looks like you had no trouble."'' When you report that you have put out the fire, he'll reveal: ''"The effects have already been felt. The Icerunner has failed to dock on time. Without the Lighthouse, the Icerunner will have swung wide of the western shoal and run aground on the eastern coast. My sister Deeja will be at the wreck with our [[Skyrim:Blackblood Marauder|Blackblood Marauders]]. She knows to expect you."'' When approached again, he will tell you to press on: ''"Get moving. I'll see if I can't delay any patrols out there."'' You can then ask him if he is the leader of the Blackblood Marauders: ''"Deeja and I are more like their representatives here in Solitude. None of the Blackbloods can show themselves without being arrested."'' He will also explain why the marauders didn't put out the fire themselves should you ask: ''"The Blackblood Marauders are... very identifiable. I didn't want anyone thinking the Blackbloods were getting too bold."'' When you leave for the Icerunner, Jaree-Ra will stay on the dockside.<br />
<br />
As opposed to what Jaree-Ra claimed before, you'll find the ship's crew murdered by the thugs inhabiting the ship. When you meet Deeja below deck on the [[Skyrim:Wreck of the Icerunner|Wreck of the Icerunner]], she'll quickly pull her weapon on you, forcing you to kill her. On her body is a [[Skyrim:Note From Jaree-Ra|note from Jaree-Ra]] asking Deeja to meet him inside [[Skyrim:Broken Oar Grotto|Broken Oar Grotto]], the current base of the Blackblood gang. At this point, Jaree-Ra will relocate to the woodworks in the back of the cave, along with numerous Blackblood Marauders and their leader [[Skyrim:Captain Hargar|Captain Hargar]]. There will be little talk, as they will all attack you on sight, with Jaree-Ra coming to their aid if necessary. If you manage to get close to Jaree-Ra without being detected, he may walk up to you: ''"First you murder my sister, then you massacre my men!"'' You can only reply with ''"..."'', after which he exclaims: ''"To [[Lore:Oblivion|Oblivion]] with your loot! This ends now!"'', after which he'll attack. When Jaree-Ra is dead, the quest will finish and the treasure scattered around the cave will be yours to take.<br />
<br />
Now that Jaree-Ra is dead by your hand, you can inform [[Skyrim:Ahtar|Ahtar]] when he brings him up in conversation, to which he'll thank you for the deed: ''"Good man/lass."''<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* The related quest was supposed to have multiple outcomes, presumably with Deeja betraying Jaree-Ra. According to the game files, Jaree-Ra would say: ''"I've been away from Solitude for as long as I can. But if you decide to finish these bandits off, you'll be rewarded for your efforts."'' Also, after taking care of the bandits in question, you could have returned to Jaree-Ra and said: ''"Looks like Deeja won't be bothering us again"'', to which he would have responded: ''"Good riddance."'' Alternatively, you could have said: ''"Deeja will need to be locked up."'', and he would answer: ''"I'll take care of it."''<br />
* There are also two lines of unused combat dialogue from the quest:<br />
: ''"You've betrayed me, murdered my sister and massacred my men!"''<br />
: ''"You don't have what it takes to kill me."''<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|Jaree-Ra was supposed to sleep in Angeline's Aromatics between 2am and 10am, but there are no free beds available. As a result, he will wander around the main trading room all night long.|USKP|2.0.1}}<br />
{{Bug|Jaree-Ra continues to utter his idle lines concerning him having work for you after already having heard his offer.|USKP|1.3.2a}}<br />
{{Bug|Jaree-Ra may attack you on sight after you have liberated Hjaalmarch for the Stormcloaks. Since he is an essential character at this point you can not kill him. Thus your only options are either flee from him or avoid being detected by him. After Solitude has been conquered and thus the civil war has ended, he will revert back to his normal behavior.|vn=1}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Ill_Met_By_Moonlight&diff=1384272Skyrim:Ill Met By Moonlight2014-08-24T15:59:50Z<p>Krusty: undo two; not relevant for the quest page</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Wipsandbox|Krusty|User:Krusty/Sandbox10|[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:24, 6 July 2014 (GMT)}}<br />
<noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Multiple<br />
|checkedBy=Dragon Guard<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] name; choose between killing a [[Skyrim:Werewolf|werewolf]] or saving [[Skyrim:Sinding|his]] life. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in Falkreath.<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], who is in a jail cell located in the Falkreath barracks.<br />
#Accept his quest and take his [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|Cursed Ring of Hircine]].<br />
#Kill the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] quest to kill Sinding.<br />
#Travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]].<br />
#Speak with Sinding.<br />
#Defeat Sinding OR defeat Hircine's Hunters and speak with Sinding.<br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
In the graveyard outside of the [[Skyrim:Hall_of_the_Dead_(Falkreath)|Hall of the Dead]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], you will find the grieving parents of a recently slain child being consoled by [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]]. [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the child, tells you that a laborer working for him on [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]] named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] was the murderer and is currently locked up in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|Falkreath Jail]].<br />
<br />
Go to the jail and find Sinding's cell. He will approach the bars and speak with you, revealing that he is a [[Skyrim:Werewolf|werewolf]]. He explains that he stole the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] in an attempt to control his transformations, but that [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine]] cursed the ring, which now causes the wearer to lose control of his or her transformations.<br />
<br />
Sinding will eventually ask you to help him kill a [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] in order to regain Hircine's favor and remove the curse from the ring. Agree to help him and he will give you the [[Skyrim:Cursed Ring of Hircine|Cursed Ring of Hircine]], which will automatically be equipped on your character for the duration of the quest. Sinding will then transform into a werewolf and escape through the top of his cell.<br />
<br />
If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
The White Stag can be found south of [[Skyrim:Pinewatch|Pinewatch]] in an unmarked clearing. Kill the stag to cause the ghostly [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] to appear. Hircine will tell you to hunt down Sinding in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and tear the skin from his body. He will also tell you to hurry, as you are not the only hunter vying for his favor.<br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Upon entering Bloated Man's Grotto, you will see a small camp containing the bodies of several hunters. Speak to the mortally wounded [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]], who will tell you that his group of hunters was killed fighting Sinding. Go further into the cave to find Sinding, who will ask for your assistance in fighting off the remaining hunters. You must choose whether to help Sinding or kill him.<br />
<br />
===Hircine's Will===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill Met by Moonlight 2.jpg|thumb|right|Be ready to fight.]]<br />
If you choose to fight Sinding, he will run from the cliff towards the entrance, where there are several hunters waiting for him. None of them are a match for him, and by the time you catch up to him he will most likely have killed several of them. Kill Sinding and activate his corpse to tear his skin off as Hircine requested. Hircine will appear as a ghostly manifestation of Sinding to reclaim the ring, and will give you the Savior's Hide as a reward.<br />
<br />
===Helping Sinding===<br />
If you choose to assist Sinding, a new group of hunters will attack you. After defeating them, continue deeper into the Grotto and help Sinding kill the weaker hunters. Once all of the hunters are dead, talk to Sinding, who will thank you for your help. When you exit the cave, speak to the Aspect of Hircine, who will remove the curse from the ring and allow you to keep it as a reward for winning the hunt.<br />
<br />
==Multiple Rewards==<br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
===Both rings===<br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* All the hunters encountered in Bloated Man's Grotto have unique names: [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]], [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]], [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]], [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]].<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
* It is possible for Sinding to not be in Bloated Man's Grotto when you first arrive. The likelihood is that you have beaten him to it and he is taking the long way around, via Riverwood and the south of Whiterun. He will eventually arrive at the grotto.{{vn}}<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim_talk:Louis_Letrush&diff=1383785Skyrim talk:Louis Letrush2014-08-22T21:35:07Z<p>Krusty: /* Quest walkthrough on NPC */reply</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archive Table<br />
|Archive 1|| Nov 2011 - Aug 2012<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Letrush Attacks Player ==<br />
<br />
Could use some help. I saw him for the first time in the game about 85 hours in at the bee and the barb tavern in Riften. Now he follows me everywhere attacking me and I can't lose him or kill him. Makes the game unplayable. Anybody figure out how to get rid of him? {{Unsigned|Van258|07:28, 25 November 2011}}<br />
<br />
: If you are playing on a PC, then you could try disabling him through the console commands. Just open up the console, click on Letrush and type "disable". This should normally get rid of him for good (not confirmed as I have never seen multiple copies of him). [[Special:Contributions/92.233.132.178|92.233.132.178]] 10:34, 30 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I was attacked by Louis Letrush almost directly after the quest where you meet Sanguine the daedric prince and he gives you something (trying to avoid spoilers). The point at which he attacks is when you get teleported to the inn. He's waiting inside the inn. I'm really hoping the 1.2 patch fixes this. {{Unsigned|77.102.241.129|10:53, 30 November 2011}}<br />
<br />
::: Encountered him for the first time near the Black Briar Lodge outside Riften after stealing Frost's papers and Frost himself. However, he was hostile, and so couldn't turn the quest into him. Beat him up multiple times and can't kill him; he kneels for a bit and gets back up with full health ready to assault me and my follower again. Halp? 59 hours in, haven't yet encountered duplicates but I'm probably just going to reload a save prior to Promises To Keep. [[Special:Contributions/216.160.156.195|216.160.156.195]] 20:26, 1 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: I can confirm this glitch, had it also. LeTrush was attacking me though I don't see any reason why. Disabling him via the console helped, though the NPC is gone then. Only his two duplicates remained. Still the case after Patch 1.2. {{Unsigned|79.249.127.138|21:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)}}<br />
<br />
::::: I can confirm this bug also...on a patched XB360. I can't complete the frost quest as he attacks on sight. {{unsigned|XeviouS|09:10, 4 December 2011 (UTC)}}<br />
<br />
:::::: same for me, I completed the quest and took Frost from him and extorted him then I got thugs sent out to kill me because he hired them. Now he just stands at the whiterun stables and doesnt do anything and cant be killed. {{Unsigned|67.71.141.222|13:00, 4 December 2011}}<br />
<br />
:::::::I may have a version of this glitch, or there may need to be one more addition to the "Consequences" section. I stole Frost ''without'' informing Maven of the plot. The only thugs I killed during the quest were outside the lodge. I then extorted Letrush (while wearing the Amulet of Articulation) and kept the horse. No thug appeared near Letrush, and none have appeared since, but Letrush has moved to the stable in front of Whiterun, where he does nothing but stand near my horse and look creepy. He will respond when spoken to, and shuffle his feet, but he never walks away. I'm not sure if this is a bug, or the intended consequence of stealing Frost and keeping him and leaving Maven out of it. [[User:KeturahIshtari|KeturahIshtari]] ([[User talk:KeturahIshtari|talk]]) 08:26, 17 September 2013 (GMT)<br />
<br />
{{od}} I had the same problem on the PS3 when I entered the Bee and the Barb tavern for the first time, as soon as it loaded he would pull his knife out and attack me... couldn't kill him as he was essential and wouldn't leave me alone. I tried a save from about an hour or so playtime prior and when I entered the tavern he was normal and rather than attack offered me the promises quest like he should. I then reloaded my most recent save and on entering the tavern he was aggressive. I reloaded again, fast traveled to Whiterun and back and then entered the tavern. This time he was normal like he should be. I saved and then reloaded again to test out waiting in Riften, but that didn't seem to work, and I haven't tried simply zoning out of Riften and back in although I suspect that could be all it takes. Hope this helps anyone else who this happens to. --[[User:Vendral|Vendral]] 12:57, 11 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: All you have to do is pay your crime gold in Riften. Louis is hostile because of the bounty you've gained from stealing Frost. Once the bounty is gone, he becomes normal again. --[[User:Anonymous] 3:07, 7 April 2012 {{uns|122.107.107.25}}<br />
<br />
::I'm having the problem on the Xbox, but instead of one clone, I have 3 clones for a total of 4 Louis Letrush. They all appear outside of Whiterun stables and I have never spoken to him before or accepted his quest. All 4 of them begin to attack me if I get near to them. I have tried many of the suggestions to fixing this and can't get it to change. He is an un-killable NPC and until I find a way to fix this bug, I will be enjoying the fact that I can continually Fos-Ro-Dah his 4 clones into the rocks of Whiterun.<br />
::--- Remadon the Great, Guild Master of the Thieves Guild, Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, Champion of the Stormcloaks. Assistant to Master Chef Ject (the greatest chef in all of Tamriel and many other dimensions.) ---- Fredas 11:21 A.M., 6th of Last Seed. {{uns2|07:20, 22 August 2012|8.23.130.4}}<br />
<br />
==Letrush Clones==<br />
I just found two of them outside Whiterun Stables. Thing is, I completed the quest and gave him the horse. I followed him for a time, until we got to that fort north of Riften and he and Frost died there due to the bandits. I hope they get rid of him in a Patch but they have bigger things to fix first. {{Uns2|11:32, 1 October 2012|71.66.111.229}}<br />
<br />
:The NPC Louis Letrush still is bugged on Skyrim version 1.8.151.0.* for PC. The date of this post is 24/01/2013. {{uns2|11:18, 24 January 2013|177.18.66.109}}<br />
<br />
::Still bugged as of 10 Jan 2014. Though I did have to use console commands to make him and Frost appear at all in the first place.<br />
<br />
== Can't talk with Letrush ==<br />
<br />
So I met him an a Sibbi Black-Briar. I can't talk with him and when he speaks random phrases, there is no his name in subtitles. I can't kill him, but when I try it, his name doesn't appear on health bar.<br />
<br />
I tried to speak with him to start quest Promises to Keep, I've didn't speak with Sibbi Black-Briar yet. Is it a bug or something? I played on XBOX so I can't use console. {{uns2|19:26, 29 January 2013|95.37.227.17}}<br />
<br />
== Bug fix ==<br />
YOU MUST WAIT FOR 24 HOURS BEFORE YOU GO NEAR HIM, THEN GO NEAR HIM AND THE BUG WILL FIX ITSELF''' {{uns2|03:27, 15 August 2013|119.224.15.87}}<br />
<br />
== Quest walkthrough on NPC ==<br />
<br />
Noticed this NPC article appears to be more of a [[Skyrim:Promises to Keep|Promises to Keep quest]] walkthrough, including a lot of dialogue that is not from, or pertaining to, Louis Letrush. Should this be edited to highlight his part in the quest rather than the actual quest details? Just wondering as I didn't want to go editing a bunch that should actually be there...--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 19:32, 22 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
: The ‘quest walkthrough’ stuff is correct, as everything spoken by other NPCs about Louis belongs on his page. On the OBNPCRP we referred to this as ‘rumors’. ☺ --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 21:35, 22 August 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard&diff=1383017UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard2014-08-20T22:42:02Z<p>Krusty: /* Legoless de-admin request */ closing de-admin request; consensus: Oppose</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Message Boards|{{PAGENAME}}]] __NEWSECTIONLINK__<div style="float:right">{{Scrolling Archive Table|class=collapsible collapsed|height=225px|width=300px<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 1|Archive 1|February 2005 – June 2006<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 2|Archive 2|June 2006 – August 2006<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 3|Archive 3|September 2006 – June 2007<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 4|Archive 4|June 2007 – July 2007<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 5|Archive 5|August 2007 – October 2007<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 6|Archive 6|October 2007 – November 2007<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 7|Archive 7|December 2007 – January 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 8|Archive 8|January 2008 – February 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 9|Archive 9|February 2008 – August 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 10|Archive 10|September 2008 – October 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 11|Archive 11|November 2008 – December 2008<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 12|Archive 12|December 2008 – March 2009<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 13|Archive 13|April 2009 – December 2009<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 14|Archive 14|January 2010 – May 2010<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 15|Archive 15|June 2010<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 16|Archive 16|June 2010 – October 2010<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 17|Archive 17|November 2010 – January 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 18|Archive 18|February 2011 – April 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 19|Archive 19|May 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 20|Archive 20|June 2011 – August 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 21|Archive 21|September 2011 – October 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 22|Archive 22|November 2011 – December 2011<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 23|Archive 23|December 2011 – February 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 24|Archive 24|February 2012 – March 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 25|Archive 25|April 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 26|Archive 26|May 2012 – June 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 27|Archive 27|July 2012 - August 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 28|Archive 28|August 2012 - October 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 29|Archive 29|October 2012 - December 2012<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 30|Archive 30|January 2013 - March 2013<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 31|Archive 31|March 2013 - June 2013<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 32|Archive 32|July 2013 - November 2013<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 33|Archive 33|December 2013 - February 2014<br />
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 34|Archive 34|March 2014 - August 2014<br />
}}{{TOCright|limit=3}}</div><br />
The '''administrator noticeboard''' is where we discuss and coordinate administrative tasks on the wiki. Although this page is intended for [[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrators]], all users are encouraged to participate in discussions.<br />
<br />
'''Before starting a discussion here,''' please review the list of other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.<br />
{{Example Table|<br />
Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[:Category:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]|A category listing of policies and guidelines, which each have individual pages; their talk pages are the best place to discuss these policies (see [[#Active Discussions|Active Discussions]] for links to active policy discussions).}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard/Vandalism|Vandalism]]| Discussions regarding vandalism and spam.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Community Portal|The main discussion forum used for community-wide discussions about UESP's operations, policies, design, and improvement.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Reference Desk|This is the best place for questions about how to play Elder Scrolls games.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Community Portal/Templates|Technical issues regarding templates and related issues can be discussed on this page.}}<br />
Specific requests can be made on these pages:<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Bot Requests|Bot Requests]]|This page can be used to request that one of the wiki's bots take on a task.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Image Requests|You can request specific images for articles here.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Creation Kit Information Requests|You can request specific Creation Kit information for articles here.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|New Page Requests|You can request a new page here if you were prevented from creating the page yourself.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|Purge Requests|If you are having problems viewing an article on UESP, the page may need to be purged. New purge requests can be made here.}}<br />
In addition, past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard can be found at:<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archives#Chronological_Archives|AN Archives]]|Lists all of the past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard, including major discussions and chronological archives.}}<br />
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archives#Past_Administrative_Requests|Past Administrative Requests]]|A list of all previous requests for administrator and other administrative requests.}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Etiquette Policy Clarification - "Grounds for blocking" ==<br />
<br />
I've edited the [[Project:Etiquette|Etiquette]] page to clarify that "grounds for blocking" does not mean "will be blocked". This has been a frequent misunderstanding in the past, and I thought it was time it was fixed. Since it's a policy page, and a topic that's ''just'' been brought up, I felt I should mention it. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 22:47, 5 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== The Silencer's Block Appeal ==<br />
<br />
Since Silencer is a big fan of following policy and procedure, I am linking his [[User Talk:The Silencer#Appeal|appeal]] on the AN. I doubt this is needed, but it is in line with policy. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|<span style="color:crimson; font-size:140%; font-family:Script, serif">Ad intellige</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|<sup style="font-size:70%; color: gold">(talk)</sup>]] 00:04, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Group Add/Remove Rights ==<br />
<br />
Administrators already have the ability to add and remove people from several groups, including all the different types of patrollers, as well as blockers. I'd like to propose that they also have the ability to add or remove Map Users, Cartographers (map editors), and Abuse Filter editors, which are relatively benign permissions. Dave would then only need to be contacted to change the various administrative and bot rights. Does anyone have any concerns with this? I've already asked Dave, and he's fine with it, but I figured I should put it to the community as well. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 17:48, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I personally think this makes sense and have no issue with it. It seems like a tad too much to have to go to Dave to add/remove, like you said, benign positions. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 17:54, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::I'm good with this. We don't have to change these user groups very often, but when we do it's usually pretty straightforward. <font color="#3D93AD">&#8672;</font>[[User:Eshe|<font color="#99876D">eshe</font>]]<sup><small>'''[[User talk:Eshe|<font color="#6FCFD1">talk</font>]]'''</small></sup> 18:10, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::It's a little soon compared to the normal approval period, but I had stuff to do on all our servers that indirectly related to this, so I made this change at the same time. Administrators should now have a bunch more groups they can add people to or remove them from. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 21:40, 6 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Suspected vandals ==<br />
<br />
For some reason these IPs keep editing the skyrim credits page. [[User:189.242.227.199]] and [[User:24.127.60.91]] I'm not sure, but I feel like they might need to get banned or something. I think they might be the same person on different IPs, but I can't know for sure. Me and a few other editors have undone 24.127.60.91 multiple times. Can an admin find out for sure? [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 08:08, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I've protected the page. I'm not going to do more right now, cause it is like 3 am and I can't focus all that well at the moment. I don't want to go accidentally blocking the wrong people. Hopefully the page protection takes care of it. Someone else can block those two, but if they are changing their IP intentionally, the page protection will stop them from editing that page. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 09:15, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::Thank you! I've been doing my best to hold down the fort (so to speak) till someone could do something about it. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 09:19, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::Okay, both have been blocked for a week. I can't decide if it's a bot or not, so hopefully this will take care of it. Thanks, guys! <font color="#3D93AD">&#8672;</font>[[User:Eshe|<font color="#99876D">eshe</font>]]<sup><small>'''[[User talk:Eshe|<font color="#6FCFD1">talk</font>]]'''</small></sup> 12:33, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
::::You're welcome[[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 12:52, 7 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Proposed Deletions ==<br />
<br />
Just a note to the other admins that I'm the one who proposed all the older [[:Category:Proposed Deletion|Proposed Deletion]]s, so I can't delete them. Can someone else give them a look when they have a moment? Thanks! <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 02:53, 8 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:I ''knew'' there was something I forgot to do today! I'm about to head to bed, actually, but I will look over these in the morning if someone else doesn't get them first. Thanks for the reminder! <font color="#3D93AD">&#8672;</font>[[User:Eshe|<font color="#99876D">eshe</font>]]<sup><small>'''[[User talk:Eshe|<font color="#6FCFD1">talk</font>]]'''</small></sup> 02:59, 8 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Block Messages ==<br />
<br />
Per the request of a couple of admins, I've reverted the Block messages to their previous, customizable versions. What's more, I spotted a new option with the InputBox extension, so now they'll auto-fill in the title and text for the block message. The one minor difference is that the text in the input box itself will no longer say the user/IP's name, but just the word "Blocked". I can't imagine that that ever got changed anyway. (See [[MediaWiki:Blockipsuccesstext]].)<br />
<br />
One question: the various blocked message boxes are very inconsistent with whether they use <nowiki>—~~~~ or just ~~~~</nowiki>. Do people have a preference whether the dash is automatic or not? And if we keep the dash, do you want an em dash (—), en-dash (–), or double regular dashes (--) like the signature button does? <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 02:49, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:My preference is two regular dashes, as I've been doing it for years. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 02:59, 11 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:: Including the dashes in the template messages is a massive headache. I use an em-dash in my signature and "--—" looks terribly silly. If people want to use dashes, it's easy to change in your preferences, so I think keeping it as <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> is the most convenient for everyone. The only time I see this being a problem is for people who make use of the signature button, which adds the "--". —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 15:23, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::: I have the same issue as Legoless, but figured it wasn't a big deal now that we can customize the message again. Anybody else wanna weigh in? <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 16:35, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::::Same as Legoless as well. — [[User:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">ABCface</font>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Alphabetface|<font color="DarkGreen">◥</font>]]</sup> 20:26, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Legoless de-admin request ==<br />
<br />
{{Userlinks|Legoless}}<br />
<br />
In my humble opinion, Legoless is unfit to be an administrator. He has consistently showed an out-of-touchness with the workings of the wiki, that ill-becomes an administrator, but much more serious than that, he deliberately lied to sway peoples opinions in the recent events around my warning and block. <br />
<br />
Firstly, this comment saying "[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1376831 Multiple admins have contacted you privately to listen to your side of the story.]" is the main focus of the complaint. It implies that I had an opportunity to defend myself and refused, when I was given no such opportunity because no admins contacted me at all. It also goes against the tone of the emails I received after the block (which was some time after this post) which implies that the admins were waiting for me to contact them with my defense (a frankly ridiculous notion unless I am to guess which admins were involved). <br />
<br />
Secondly, this comment quoting the wikipedia policy page with "[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1376874 Lesser personal attacks often result in a warning]" is a deliberate misquotation of the policy page, avoiding whole tracts of policy on how to deal with a personal attack and taking the summation at the end of the page as the basis of the warning, despite the policy's underlying concept of seeking a non-administrative solution (especially in first-time cases), and that we have our own policy on attacks which is incompatible anyway. My point here is twofold; one, if you do not understand a policy do not accuse someone of breaking it, and two, do not misquote policies to enforce an action. Both of these actions are unacceptable from anyone, much less an administrator who should know the rules before supporting administrative action. Also within that post is the comment "Unless you are arguing for a block instead..." which is quite a provocative statement, as following my reply that had policy been implemented properly I would have been, I did get a block (which was over the top in length, and wasn't a replacement for the warning). <br />
<br />
Lastly in connection to the warning, this post comments that "[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1369048 This isn't the first time The Silencer has been abrasive towards other editors]". While that may certainly be the opinion of some people, its the first I've heard of it, having never been approached in public or private about being abrasive on the wiki. So in terms of the warning, this is the first offence, and an administrator should know that before saying otherwise. Another comment there about "common etiquette should be of paramount importance" can be left for another post about the value of factual information (the content if my original post for which I was warned).<br />
<br />
Moving on to some examples that show a lack of wiki-knowledge. [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_Silencer&diff=1368388&oldid=1368386 This one] is (assuming good faith) a lack of knowledge that plural headers are a standard across the wiki, no namespace or section is exempt. [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Isolated_House&diff=prev&oldid=1376441 Icons] have been standard for around 18 months at this point, using this template (which has no other use but for the way it was used). [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Telrav&diff=1360253&oldid=1360249 Copyright] is a serious issue, and suggesting a wiki that takes images from the web as the source of an image is as bad as suggesting google search is a source. These editing examples are of particular importance in establishing that Legoless had no place being involved in the administrative action taken against me as an [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Administrators#Involved_admins|involved admin]], as on all three occasions it fell to me to explain how an admin was wrong and chastise him for suggesting copyright was a trivial issue. Without a reply on any of the three occasions I have to assume he had no issue for being shown to be wrong, but with these three edits coming a month before the warning, and an insinuation of being passive-aggressive in past posts, it certainly leaves space for the accusation of being biased. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:03, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': This feels completely like a [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Witchhunt|witchhunt]] and nothing else. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 23:15, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
**'''Comment''': I prefer to think of it as holding him responsible for his actions. Have you nothing to say in regard the lies he told or do you find that acceptable? [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:20, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': The main issue here that involves a detriment to the wiki is the bottom three. Any action for the others would be punitive, not protective. Those three, while valid concerns, are not grounds for removal of rights. I'll wait to support or oppose, though, until Legoless responds. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 23:23, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment:''' {{ec|3}} To offhandedly address address a couple of these:<br />
:*Both AKB and RobinHood implied that they had contacted you following the warning you received. If AKB did not, in fact, contact you via email, then I admit I was wrong on that point. Claiming that I maliciously and purposefully lied about it is unfounded.<br />
:*I was semi-active on the wiki since December 2012 due to various personal constraints, so I was not aware of the icon issue. If it was truly such a long-standing policy, it's curious that it was only being implemented on some pages in the last month, and not even in a standardised fashion (see [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion%3AMelus_Petilius%27_House&diff=1376493&oldid=1376447 this]).<br />
:*Aside from contributing to the discussions following your warning and removing your patroller rights per your own request, I did not take any administrative action towards you. A clear consensus was reached among the admins, and it would be poor form for me not to support it due to my own "bias" when it comes to your sour attitude.<br />
:*'''Edit''': As for the copyright issue, I chose not to respond due to your overly domineering and aggressive response, not because I believed myself to be in the wrong. As it turned out, the user image in question was simply removed, but I stand by my point that trying to apply copyright law to an image macro is ridiculous.<br />
<br />
:Frankly I find this de-admin request to be a petty attempt at payback for the administrative action towards The Silencer in the past month. However, I have no problem leaving it stand, as I have full faith in the community. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:25, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:*'''Comment''': To clarify in my regard, I said I have talked to the Silencer privately in the past, it was confusingly worded so it is completely understandable that Lego thought I was currently speaking to him about the conflict at the time. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] <sup>[[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]]</sup> 23:27, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::Your 'apology' is not accepted. To base such a statement that had huge implications on nothing more than guesswork is just as bad as outright lying, because you did not know the situation and should not have commented on it. You commenting on the discussion as an admin is taking part in it by association, your words as an administrator carry weight in a discussion requesting administrative action. My request is based your lying and deliberately misquoting policy. It is not acceptable to make statements as an administrator in situations you do not understand, using policy you don't understand, and as such you should not be allowed to do so again (until you do understand your position, at which point you can reapply for admin). AKB, you had not commented on the topic before Legoless made that statement. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:40, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:::: {{Ec}} AKB's comment was made in private. Please don't add hypocrisy by misquoting me and continuing to accuse me of lying, it's not constructive. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:45, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
:::::Please address the second lie and misquoted policy accusations before derailing this post any further. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 23:48, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': In my honest opinion I feel like this is just a way for Silencer to get payback. With all the issues with Silencer the last few weeks it brings into question the real motive for this request. While some of those are legitimate claims, like Jeancey said they are not grounds for removing admin rights. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 23:42, 12 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': Contrary to some peoples opinions my aim was not revenge but exposure. True the three links are involved with the 'discussion' about my warning, but had he made these anywhere else I would still have called him out on it. I cannot force the admins to take any action, but now they cannot deny the claims were brought to their attention. As seems to be the way of things, it is who made the post that is the main focus here (seriously, the first response), ignoring the serious claims in favour of counter-claiming some sort of 'revenge' and attempting to stop any sort of reasoned debate. I cannot force any sort of punishment on Legoless, that is up to the community, who should by now know what kind of person they are supporting. If you decide to leave him as an administrator, you can't complain if he does it again (which he's already done by again disparaging the seriousness of copyright). Simply put, if he hadn't lied, what would I have to complain about? [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 01:37, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': I don't see any malicious intent, lack of knowledge, or really much of anything. I see several ''incredibly'' minor mistakes, if that. The only reason why I would consider supporting this would be an actual problem that is legitimately causing harm to the site. I just cannot believe these issues could cause major harm, if any, to this site. I know you're going to disagree, but I think all of the issues brought up are, like was previously said, nothing but a witchhunt. Silencer, I stayed out of all of the discussions over the last few weeks. I thought then, and still think now, that things did not have to get as far as they did. The fact that they're getting to this level is just utterly unnecessary. To wrap things up, '''we do not need this kind of drama here'''. Period. I know it's happening/has happened on another similar site and I do not want it here. [[User:WoahBro|<font color="black">•WoahBro</font>]]<sup><small>''[[User talk:WoahBro|<font color="black">►talk</font>]]</small></sup>'' 02:00, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': Many of the points above are based on misunderstandings or minor mistakes. These things happen from time to time and there's really no point to belabouring them. To my mind, there is nothing in this request that warrants de-adminship. <span style="white-space:nowrap">&ndash; [[User:RobinHood70|<span style="color:royalblue; font-size:140%; font-family:Vladimir Script,serif">Robin Hood</span>]]&nbsp; [[User_talk:RobinHood70|<sup style="font-size:70%">(talk)</sup>]]</span> 02:04, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': "This is not a productive area of discussion." - Henry Kissinger's head, ''Futurama''. Silencer, I think how you were treated was patently ridiculous. I think the community tends to overreact sometimes in matters of politeness. It's the internet, people; grow a thick skin or go offline. You're a great editor. But so is Legoless. So let's put all this in our rearview mirror and get back to what matters. [[User:Minor Edits|<span style="font-size:small"><font color="Green">Insignificant Revisions</font></span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]]</sup> 02:40, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Oppose''': Lorenut took the words right out of my mouth. The only person twisting words and lying here is YOU, Silencer. If your first action after your ban (a ban that YOU pushed for when we were content to give you a warning-see my comments on the appeal on your talk page) is to try and stir up drama for no reason, you're not in the right spot. Go to Encyclopedia Dramatica if you want to stir up drama, not here. [[User:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:red; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Zul se onikaan</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:blue; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Laan tinvaak</span>]]</sup> 12:26, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
*'''Comment''': I wasn't going to comment at all, in the hope that this would fizzle out and we could, as ME puts it, get back to what matters. And I agree completely with everything else ME says above. However, I would like to suggest that people stop accusing others of lying. Lying is ''deliberately'' telling falsehoods. I see no lies whatsoever on the part of Silencer, just statements which others might disagree with, coupled with a bunch of inflammatory comments from all sides. I also see no deliberate lies on the part of Legoless, just a misunderstanding (regarding contact by admins) and a misinterpretation (the quote from Wikipedia, which is accurately quoted, but perhaps taken out of context). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:21, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
:*'''Comment''': Bullying other editors and slinging accusations against admins is ''never'' appropriate or justified, and while "growing thick skin" is undoubtedly good advice both for the internet and in meatspace, it fails to hold water as a defense of the aforementioned behavior. I do agree that we should all just move on, and indeed most of us have been willing to do so for the last month. There's no point drudging up more pointless squabbles over this one issue. [[User:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:red; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Zul se onikaan</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:ThuumofReason|<span style="color:blue; font-size:140%; font-family:Gabriola">Laan tinvaak</span>]]</sup> 15:01, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::*'''Comment''': "Slinging accusations" is entirely justified with proof, they are not immune to scrutiny or from answering for their actions. Again, if there were no lies there would be no justification for calling for any action to be taken. You yourself are hardly immune to scrutiny, having twisted my words on more than one occasion (proof can be provided for anyone interested). I see only two people who have commented on the lies and misquoting so far, with far more scrutiny being placed on the editing issues (which are not enough on their own which is why they are examples). When you suspect an admin of telling lies against you, then you'll know how easily you can 'move on', until then you are simply preventing an admins actions being looked at for no other reason than you don't want to bother with it. [[User:The Silencer|<font color="B8860B">Silence is Golden</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Silencer|<font color="800000">Break the Silence</font>]]</sup> 17:47, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
::'''Comment''': Silencer the problem is that none of the legitimate evidence is enough to remove an administrators rights. As for your first couple pieces of evidence. AKB said above " I said I have talked to the Silencer privately in the past, it was confusingly worded so it is completely understandable that Lego thought I was currently speaking to him about the conflict at the time" so I think that removes your first piece of evidence. Now onto the "misquotation" I don't feel like it's a misquotation. I looked up the policy and I feel it was used under correct circumstances. Let's move on, yes this may be the first time you've been talked with about the way you speak to people, but I have noticed a lot of times where you have been rude to other editors. Once again with this request being so close to your blocking it calls into question your true motive. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 22:15, 13 August 2014 (GMT)<br />
<br />
'''CLOSED. Consensus: OPPOSE.''' --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:42, 20 August 2014 (GMT)</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1383016User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-08-20T22:37:37Z<p>Krusty: /* Notes */</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Multiple<br />
|checkedBy=Dragon Guard<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] name; choose between killing a [[Skyrim:Werewolf|werewolf]] or saving [[Skyrim:Sinding|his]] life. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice. <br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experience its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are in Falkreath for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius...and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways. <br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies whocan usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies last words will be: What could drive a man to do something like this?<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is build in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. In the northeastern cell sits Sinding, the supposed killer, waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring.<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free. You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell. Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set of at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine. Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me. At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you. <br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man’s Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]] already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]] is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
<br />
===Hircine's Will===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill Met by Moonlight 2.jpg|thumb|right|Be ready to fight.]]<br />
If you choose to fight Sinding, he will run from the cliff towards the entrance, where there are several hunters waiting for him. None of them are a match for him, and by the time you catch up to him he will most likely have killed several of them. Kill Sinding and activate his corpse to tear his skin off as Hircine requested. Hircine will appear as a ghostly manifestation of Sinding to reclaim the ring, and will give you the Savior's Hide as a reward.<br />
<br />
===Helping Sinding===<br />
If you choose to go against Hircine’s will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
<br />
==Multiple Rewards==<br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
===Both rings===<br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1383012User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-08-20T22:30:13Z<p>Krusty: /* Helping Sinding */</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Multiple<br />
|checkedBy=Dragon Guard<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] name; choose between killing a [[Skyrim:Werewolf|werewolf]] or saving [[Skyrim:Sinding|his]] life. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice. <br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experience its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are in Falkreath for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius...and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways. <br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies whocan usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies last words will be: What could drive a man to do something like this?<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is build in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. In the northeastern cell sits Sinding, the supposed killer, waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring.<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free. You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell. Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set of at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine. Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me. At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you. <br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man’s Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]] already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]] is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
<br />
===Hircine's Will===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill Met by Moonlight 2.jpg|thumb|right|Be ready to fight.]]<br />
If you choose to fight Sinding, he will run from the cliff towards the entrance, where there are several hunters waiting for him. None of them are a match for him, and by the time you catch up to him he will most likely have killed several of them. Kill Sinding and activate his corpse to tear his skin off as Hircine requested. Hircine will appear as a ghostly manifestation of Sinding to reclaim the ring, and will give you the Savior's Hide as a reward.<br />
<br />
===Helping Sinding===<br />
If you choose to go against Hircine’s will and spare Sinding, he will gratefully thank you and encourage you to hunt with him. Find the northeastern stairway, and join Sinding on the cliff. As you move forward, you will encounter the first two hunters, [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]] and [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], both of them hostile. Defeat them and be careful not to hit Sinding, as he will turn hostile as well. Keep moving forward and face another wave of hunters, including [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], and [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]]. Follow the path back to the campsite, where three more hunters, [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]], will attack you and Sinding. When all the hunters are dead, approach Sinding: ''"Thank you for your help. I will make my home here, away from anyone I might hurt."'' This will end the quest, with no reward. However, when you exit the grotto, you will encounter the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] once again, as you failed to follow his wishes. Two options are available, and will both lead to the same conclusion: ''"By bringing down my other Hunters, you turned the chase inside out. And they were no base prey. You continue to amuse and impress. Go forth, with my blessing."'' He will then remove the curse from the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and let you keep it as a reward.<br />
<br />
==Multiple Rewards==<br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
===Both rings===<br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* All the hunters encountered in Bloated Man's Grotto have unique names: [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]], [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]], [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]], [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]].<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
* It is possible for Sinding to not be in Bloated Man's Grotto when you first arrive. The likelihood is that you have beaten him to it and he is taking the long way around, via Riverwood and the south of Whiterun. He will eventually arrive at the grotto.{{vn}}<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krustyhttps://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Krusty/Sandbox10&diff=1383007User:Krusty/Sandbox102014-08-20T21:45:14Z<p>Krusty: /* Quick Walkthrough */</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{Cleanup-srqrp<br />
|writtenBy=Multiple<br />
|checkedBy=Dragon Guard<br />
|reward=Chezburgar<br />
|rewardChecked=Dragon Guard<br />
}}</noinclude>{{Trail2|Quests|Daedric|link2=Daedric Quests}}{{Quest Header<br />
|Giver=[[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] or [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]]<br />
|Reward= [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]] and/or [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] (see [[#Multiple Rewards|Multiple Rewards]])<br />
|Disp=<br />
|Prev=<br />
|Loc= [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]]<br />
|Image=SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight.jpg<br />
|ImgDesc=Meeting Sinding at the Grotto<br />
|description=Hunt in [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] name; choose between killing a [[Skyrim:Werewolf|werewolf]] or saving [[Skyrim:Sinding|his]] life. <br />
|ID=DA05<br />
|Icon=SR-qico-Daedric.png<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Quick Walkthrough==<br />
#''(Optional)'' Speak to [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]], the father of the slain child in [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].<br />
#Talk to [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]].<br />
#Hunt down the [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]].<br />
#Accept [[Skyrim:Hircine|Hircine's]] challenge.<br />
#Face Sinding inside [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] and make a choice. <br />
#Speak with Hircine.<br />
<br />
==Detailed Walkthrough==<br />
===Falkreath===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Runil_03.jpg|thumb|right|The burial of Lavania]]<br />
A plethora of battles has taken place in [[Skyrim:Falkreath Hold|Falkreath Hold]] throughout the eras, and the bloodshed has taken its toll on the small hold capital of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]. The town has the questionable honor of hosting the largest graveyard in all of Skyrim, and the few merchants and innkeepers all named their shops or taverns in honor of the numerous deceased warriors. But while the ongoing [[Skyrim:Civil War|civil war]] keeps its distance for the time being, Falkreath still experience its share of death, as evident by a visit to the graveyard when you are in Falkreath for the very first time. Here you will find town priest [[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]] busy saying the last rites for little Lavinia, the only daughter of local farmers [[Skyrim:Mathies|Mathies]] and [[Skyrim:Indara_Caerellia|Indara Caerellia]]: ''"The god Arkay was once like us, bound to winding mortality. But he willingly gave up this existence that we might better understand the vagaries of life and death. It is through the ebb and flow of this cosmic tide that we find renewal and, in the end, peace. May the spirit of Lavinia and all those who have left this world and its suffering know the beloved serenity of Aetherius...and may we one day rejoin them in eternity."'' After the sad ceremony the three will go their separate ways. <br />
<br />
===Sinding===<br />
Locate the grieving father, Mathies whocan usually be found working his crops behind [[Skyrim:Corpselight Farm|Corpselight Farm]]. When asked about his tragedy he will tell you that his nine-year old Lavinia was ripped apart by a laborer named [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]], now rotting in jail for his deed. The quest will begin and Mathies last words will be: What could drive a man to do something like this?<br />
<br />
In Falkreath, the [[Skyrim:Falkreath Jail|jail]] is build in the basement of [[Skyrim:Falkreath Barracks|Falkreath Barracks]]. In the northeastern cell sits Sinding, the supposed killer, waiting for his death sentence. When you get close he will approach the bars and you can ask him directly if he killed the little girl: Believe me, it wasn't anything I ever intended to do. I just... lost control. I tried to tell them, but none of them believe me. It's all on account of this blasted ring.<br />
<br />
===The Ring of Hircine===<br />
[[File:SR-npc-Sinding_02.jpg|thumb|right|[[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] escapes]]<br />
Sinding will then show you the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] and reveal that he is secretly a [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolf]] who cut a deal with the Daedric Prince of the Hunt in an attempt to control his transformations. The plan backfired and he transformed at the worst possible time, in front of the little girl who never stood a chance. However, he has a plan: I've been looking for a way to appease Hircine. There is a certain beast in these lands. Large, majestic. It's said that Hircine will commune with whoever slays it. I tracked it into these woods, but then had my... accident with the child. I want to beg his forgiveness. Give him back the ring. But while I'm stuck in here, the beast wanders free. You can now offer to bring the ring to Hircine, and Sinding will gladly accept: Oh my. You would do this for me? Here, take it. I don't want anything to do with this wretched thing anymore. Seek out the beast. He wanders these woods. Bring him down and... well, the Lord of the Hunt should smile on you. I wish you luck, but should leave here while I still have my skin. Should our paths cross again, I will remember your kindness. Farewell. Without the Ring of Hircine, Sinding will then transform right in front of you and claw his way to the ceiling of the cell where he disappears. When you are ready to leave, the patrolling guard may approach you and notice: You... you were talking to that murderous savage. And then he escaped. What are you hiding?<br />
{{Example Table<br />
|<br />
'''NOTE''': If you are a lycanthrope, the ring will randomly cause you to transform into your beast form, which may cause a significant bounty if triggered at the wrong time. If you are not infected, the ring's only effect will be to take up your finger slot.<br />
}}<br />
===Hunting the White Stag===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill_Met_By_Moonlight_3.jpg|thumb|right|The [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]]]]<br />
The great beast turns out to be a unique deer named [[Skyrim:White Stag|White Stag]] and can be found in an unmarked clearing east of Falkreath, usually drinking water from a small pond. If you are spotted, the stag will usually howl, then set of at a running pace up the mountain. Do your best to catch up with it, or make effective use of your long-range weapons to hit it. One hit is all it takes and the stag will fall to the ground. Before long, the [[Skyrim:Aspect of Hircine|Aspect of Hircine]] will emerge from the dead stag, talking to you: I am the spirit of the hunt, just one glimpse of the glorious stalker that your kind calls Hircine. Naturally, as a Dadric Prince, Hircine will have a few extra tricks up his sleeve and will not just take the ring. Instead he will ask a favor: I may consider it. But you must first do a service for my glory. The one who stole it has fled to what he thinks is his sanctuary. Just as a bear climbs a tree to escape the hunt, but only ends up trapping himself. Seek out this rogue shifter. Tear the skin from his body, and make it an offering to me. At this point, you can accept or decline, but it will make little difference; you are to travel to [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]], or someone else will do it for you. <br />
<br />
===Bloated Man's Grotto===<br />
Bloated Man’s Grotto is a small cave between Falkreath and [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], normally inhabited by [[Skyrim:Bear|bears]] and [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]]. During the quest, however, you will encounter the remains of a small hunting party, with three of the members, [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], and [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]] already dead. A fourth member, [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]] is still alive, but heavily wounded. When you approach him, he will say: ''"The prey is strong. Stronger than the hunters. But more will come. Bring him down, for the glories of Lord Hircine."'' The wounded Khajiit will then drop dead. Loot the corpses and a locked chest behind the camp, then follow the northern path until [[Skyrim:Sinding|Sinding]] appears on a rock above, confused as to why you are there to hunt him down: ''"I can't stop you if that's what you want to do. Hircine is too powerful. But if you spare me, I can be a powerful ally to you. And I would promise to never return to civilized life. I know now that I can't live among people."'' He will then wait for your response, and your decision will not only affect the reward, it may also affect your achievements.<br />
<br />
===Hircine's Will===<br />
[[File:SR-quest-Ill Met by Moonlight 2.jpg|thumb|right|Be ready to fight.]]<br />
If you choose to fight Sinding, he will run from the cliff towards the entrance, where there are several hunters waiting for him. None of them are a match for him, and by the time you catch up to him he will most likely have killed several of them. Kill Sinding and activate his corpse to tear his skin off as Hircine requested. Hircine will appear as a ghostly manifestation of Sinding to reclaim the ring, and will give you the Savior's Hide as a reward.<br />
<br />
===Helping Sinding===<br />
If you choose to assist Sinding, a new group of hunters will attack you. After defeating them, continue deeper into the Grotto and help Sinding kill the weaker hunters. Once all of the hunters are dead, talk to Sinding, who will thank you for your help. When you exit the cave, speak to the Aspect of Hircine, who will remove the curse from the ring and allow you to keep it as a reward for winning the hunt.<br />
<br />
==Multiple Rewards==<br />
It is entirely possible to obtain both the Ring of Hircine as well as the Savior's Hide. In order to do so:<br />
# Talk to Sinding and tell him you will spare his life.<br />
# Help Sinding eliminate the remaining hunters. '''Make sure to save your game at this point!'''<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead, exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
# Go back into the cave, give both rings to your follower/place in chest, kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
<br />
It has been reported that the above does not work in all cases. If you find yourself unable to skin Sinding after murdering him, reload the save from after killing the other hunters, then proceed to:<br />
# Tell Sinding that the Hunters are dead<br />
# Kill Sinding, take his hide and receive the Savior's Hide from Hircine.<br />
# Exit the cave and the Aspect of Hircine will appear again, granting you the Ring of Hircine.<br />
<br />
===Both rings===<br />
It is possible to get the Savior's Hide and '''both''' Rings of Hircine, but you must have transformed to be able to do this, as you cannot unequip the ring otherwise.<br />
# Opt to kill the hunters rather than Sinding at the start of the quest.<br />
# Talk to Sinding and place the Cursed Ring of Hircine in a chest in [[Skyrim:Bloated Man's Grotto|Bloated Man's Grotto]] or give it to a follower.<br />
# Exit the Grotto, and receive the ring from the Aspect of Hircine.<br />
# Go back, kill Sinding and take the skin from his body to receive the Savior's Hide. <br />
# Retrieve your Cursed Ring of Hircine from the chest or follower.<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* If you acquire the [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] ''and'' the [[Skyrim:Savior's Hide|Savior's Hide]], both will count towards the [[Skyrim:Oblivion Walker|Oblivion Walker]] [[Skyrim:Achievements|achievement]], allowing you to earn the achievement without completing one of the "required" Daedric quests. However, the "Daedric Quests Completed" statistic (in the General Stats section of your log) is only incremented once.<br />
* It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way.<br />
* After completing the quest and leaving the Grotto, the dead hunters will disappear, along with the loot that is on them. If you need to make more than one trip, make sure to loot everyone before leaving and place the items inside the chest.<br />
* If you exit the dialogue with Sinding after meeting him in the Grotto, or allow it to time out, it counts as having chosen to kill Sinding.<br />
* Be very careful if you choose to help Sinding kill the hunters, as accidentally striking Sinding three times will cause him to turn against you.<br />
* All the hunters encountered in Bloated Man's Grotto have unique names: [[Skyrim:J'Kier|J'Kier]], [[Skyrim:Batum gra-Bar|Batum gra-Bar]], [[Skyrim:Ma'tasarr|Ma'tasarr]], [[Skyrim:Hoddreid|Hoddreid]], [[Skyrim:Rissing|Rissing]], [[Skyrim:Tsrasuna|Tsrasuna]], [[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|Torkild the Fearsome]], [[Skyrim:Yar gro-Gatuk|Yar gro-Gatuk]], [[Skyrim:Eriana|Eriana]], [[Skyrim:Heratar|Heratar]], [[Skyrim:Ra'kheran|Ra'kheran]], and [[Skyrim:Ahjisi|Ahjisi]].<br />
* This quest will completely alter Bloated Man's Grotto, but it will reset to its non-quest form one in-game month after the death of Sinding if you don't enter it during that time. It's recommended to visit Bloated Man's Grotto before doing this quest if you want to loot [[Skyrim:Bolar's Oathblade|Bolar's Oathblade]] without killing Sinding.<br />
* It is possible for Sinding to not be in Bloated Man's Grotto when you first arrive. The likelihood is that you have beaten him to it and he is taking the long way around, via Riverwood and the south of Whiterun. He will eventually arrive at the grotto.{{vn}}<br />
<br />
==Bugs==<br />
{{Bug|When the Cursed Ring of Hircine equips itself, it will not unequip any ring you are currently wearing, allowing you to wear two rings at once.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|It is possible for the White Stag to relocate to a location outside of the playable world, making it impossible for you to reach him and progress the quest.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} Use the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] command <code>tcl</code> to disable collision, enabling you to float towards the White Stag to kill it. Upon returning to a valid location use the same command to enable collision and resume normal gameplay.<br />
{{Bug|When leaving the jail after accepting the quest, if you don't wait for Sinding to transform and escape, he may remain there even after he is supposed to be making his way to the Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**{{Pc22}} It may be possible to complete the quest normally by moving him outside of the cell using <code>moveto player</code> console command and then exiting the barracks immediately.<br />
{{Bug|Casting non-offensive spells at Sinding (including healing spells) counts as striking him, therefore healing him three times will turn him hostile towards you.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding may not come to the bars when you enter the jail, making it impossible to talk to him.|confirmed=1}}<br />
**Leaving and entering the jail a second time usually fixes this.<br />
{{Bug|If you manage to get both rewards from the quest by killing both Sinding and the hunters, Sinding may appear dead as a werewolf behind bars in the Falkreath Jail, or alive traveling the roads, or possibly back in Bloated Man's Grotto.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you change to beast form and then return to normal, you will be able to remove the Cursed Ring of Hircine (since transforming to a werewolf removes all items you are wearing). If you have installed [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]], transforming into a Vampire Lord accomplishes the same thing.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|If you are riding a horse when the cursed ring transforms you into a werewolf, the camera will stay focused on the horse, even though you are not on it. You will need to wait to turn back into your regular form, then mount the horse and dismount it to get back to a normal camera view. This will also remove the ring.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|In Bloated Man's Grotto it may be possible to begin another conversation with the Aspect of Hircine after his dialogue has finished, while he is in the process of vanishing. This will leave you stuck in conversation, unable to exit it.|vn=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When Sinding attempts to escape after giving you the ring, it's possible he will fail, leaving him standing in the cell. The guards will tell you he escaped, and the hunters at Bloated Man's Grotto will still die, but returning to the jail will find Sinding still in his cage. If you then kill him in his cell, there may be two of him, one with and one without the essential flag. If this occurs, this will make the quest impossible to complete as the one you are supposed to kill will be the one with the essential flag.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|Sinding (as a werewolf) may be found back at the Falkreath Barracks, and killing him there and taking his skin will still trigger the appearance of the Aspect of Hircine, allowing you to gain the Savior's Hide long after the quest in question has been completed.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|After completing the quest by letting Sinding live, there may be two copies of him in the cave, both in werewolf form.|confirmed=1}}<br />
{{Bug|When first encountering Sinding in Bloated Man's Grotto he may not engage you in conversation, but instead proceed to attack the hunters. However, he will be unable to properly engage them in combat and they will not be hostile to you either. You can attack and kill them, but you can't engage Sinding in conversation, making it impossible to complete the quest.|vn=1}}<br />
** Exit from the grotto and reenter; now the conversation should be unlocked.<br />
{{Bug|If you attack Sinding in [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|beast form]], he may not become hostile and the option to skin his corpse may not present itself.|confirmed=1}}<br />
<br />
==Quest Stages==<br />
{{Journal Entries<br />
|10||There are stories in Falkreath of a strange vagrant who savagely killed a little girl.<br />
{{Quest Objective|10|Speak to Sinding}}<br />
|20||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. He's given me the ring he stole and asked me to entreat Hircine for forgiveness.<br />
{{Quest Objective|20|Kill the great beast}}<br />
|50||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. Hircine has asked me to finish the job and gain his favor by killing Sinding.<br />
{{Quest Objective|50|Begin the hunt}}<br />
|55||{{Quest Objective|55|Join the hunt}}<br />
|60||{{Quest Objective|60|Kill Sinding}}<br />
|61||{{Quest Objective|61|Skin Sinding}}<br />
|65||{{Quest Objective|65|Speak with Hircine}}<br />
|70||I've met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine has punished by preventing his transformations. I'm going to defend him against the hunters that Hircine has sent to end his life.<br />
{{Quest Objective|70|Kill the Hunters}}<br />
|80||{{Quest Objective|80|Talk to Sinding}}<br />
|100|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I helped kill him as a service to Hircine, and have been rewarded with the Savior's Hide.<br />
|105|fin|I met Sinding, a werewolf who the Daedric Lord Hircine had punished by preventing his transformations. I defended him against the hunters that Hircine sent to end his life, and earned his friendship.<br />
|205|fail|<br />
|missing=0, 200, 210<br />
}}{{Skyrim Quest Stages Notes}}</div>Krusty