UESPWiki - User Contributions [en]

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-05-20T23:02:05Z

Kiz: m

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber,
.postedit {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content, .mw-notification {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

.popup_drop:hover .popup_menu, .popup_drop .popup_menu:hover, .popupPreview > * { background: var(--dark4); }

.popup_drop:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f; }

.popup_menu a:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f }

.popup_change_title_link { color: #152; }

.popup_history_row_even { background: var(--dark3); }

.popupPreview a.extiw, .popupPreview a.extiw:active { color: #36b; }

.popupPreview a.external { color: #36b; }

.oo-ui-window-body {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.codeEditor-status {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-windowManager-modal > .oo-ui-dialog {
background-color: var(--dark2_5);
}

.darkMode div#ace_settingsmenu {
color: var(--light1);
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry:hover {
background-color: var(--dark5_5);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="text"] {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
padding-left: 5px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"],
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"] {
appearance: none;
position: relative;
width: 1rem;
height: 1rem;
border: 1px solid var(--light2);
line-height: 1;
background: var(--dark5);
border-radius: 4px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]::before {
position: absolute;
width: 100%;
height: 100%;
left: 1px;
top: 1px;
text-align: center;
white-space: pre;
content: " ";
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before {
content: "\2713";
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog.ui-widget-content,
.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header {
background: var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header a.ui-dialog-titlebar-close.ui-corner-all,
.ui-dialog-content input:not([type="checkbox"]),
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group-heading,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .tool-select .label {
filter: invert(1);
}

.ui-widget-content, .wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog label {
color: var(--light1);
}

.ui-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane button {
filter: invert(1);
border: 1px solid;
}

.ui-button-text-only .ui-button-text {
filter:invert(1);
color: var(--light1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail-heading,
.oo-ui-tabSelectWidget {
background: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail {
background: var(--dark3);
}

.darkMode .lore-statues-navbar {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Template:Consensus */
.consup {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.conopp {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

.condef {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

/* Special:Preferences */
.client-js #preferences {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

/* Special:NewPages */
li.not-patrolled {
background-color: #414114;
border: 1px solid;
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

/* Unset for Userboxes to stop overwriting */
.userbox p, .userbox b, .userbox .center {
color: unset;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-header-title.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted .mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-savedLinksListWidget-placeholder.oo-ui-optionWidget .oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-viewSwitchWidget label.oo-ui-labelWidget {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget[class*=mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-name],
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-outlined .oo-ui-tagItemWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted:not(.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected) {
background: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.oo-ui-tabOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background: var(--dark3);
}

/* dialoguetree - proposed */

.dialoguetree-box {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
color:#47b1f7;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
color: var(--light1);
}

/* dialoguebox - proposed */
.dialoguebox, .mw-parser-output .dialoguebox {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-parser-output .dialoguebox dd>b {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}
}

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-05-20T23:01:13Z

Kiz: m

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber,
.postedit {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content, .mw-notification {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

.popup_drop:hover .popup_menu, .popup_drop .popup_menu:hover, .popupPreview > * { background: var(--dark4); }

.popup_drop:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f; }

.popup_menu a:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f }

.popup_change_title_link { color: #152; }

.popup_history_row_even { background: var(--dark3); }

.popupPreview a.extiw, .popupPreview a.extiw:active { color: #36b; }

.popupPreview a.external { color: #36b; }

.oo-ui-window-body {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.codeEditor-status {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-windowManager-modal > .oo-ui-dialog {
background-color: var(--dark2_5);
}

.darkMode div#ace_settingsmenu {
color: var(--light1);
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry:hover {
background-color: var(--dark5_5);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="text"] {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
padding-left: 5px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"],
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"] {
appearance: none;
position: relative;
width: 1rem;
height: 1rem;
border: 1px solid var(--light2);
line-height: 1;
background: var(--dark5);
border-radius: 4px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]::before {
position: absolute;
width: 100%;
height: 100%;
left: 1px;
top: 1px;
text-align: center;
white-space: pre;
content: " ";
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before {
content: "\2713";
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog.ui-widget-content,
.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header {
background: var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header a.ui-dialog-titlebar-close.ui-corner-all,
.ui-dialog-content input:not([type="checkbox"]),
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group-heading,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .tool-select .label {
filter: invert(1);
}

.ui-widget-content, .wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog label {
color: var(--light1);
}

.ui-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane button {
filter: invert(1);
border: 1px solid;
}

.ui-button-text-only .ui-button-text {
filter:invert(1);
color: var(--light1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail-heading,
.oo-ui-tabSelectWidget {
background: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail {
background: var(--dark3);
}

.darkMode .lore-statues-navbar {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Template:Consensus */
.consup {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.conopp {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

.condef {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

/* Special:Preferences */
.client-js #preferences {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

/* Special:NewPages */
li.not-patrolled {
background-color: #414114;
border: 1px solid;
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

/* Unset for Userboxes to stop overwriting */
.userbox p, .userbox b, .userbox .center {
color: unset;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-header-title.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted .mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-savedLinksListWidget-placeholder.oo-ui-optionWidget .oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-viewSwitchWidget label.oo-ui-labelWidget {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget[class*=mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-name],
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-outlined .oo-ui-tagItemWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted:not(.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected) {
background: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.oo-ui-tabOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background: var(--dark3);
}

/* dialoguetree - proposed */

.dialoguetree-box {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
color:#47b1f7;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
color: var(--light1);
}

/* dialoguebox - proposed */
.dialoguebox, .mw-parser-output .dialoguebox, .mw-parser-output .dialoguebox dd>b {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-05-20T10:09:15Z

Kiz: + postedit

User:Kiz/common.js

2026-05-20T10:08:39Z

Kiz: nope

User:Kiz/common.js

2026-05-20T10:08:21Z

Kiz: m

mw.postedit( 'Maybe this works?.', { autoHide: false } );

User:Kiz/common.css

2026-05-20T10:06:40Z

Kiz: m

.postedit {
color: var(--light1);
}

User:Kiz/common.js

2026-05-20T10:05:28Z

Kiz: rev notification test

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-05-20T10:04:41Z

Kiz: notification fix?

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content, .mw-notification {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

.popup_drop:hover .popup_menu, .popup_drop .popup_menu:hover, .popupPreview > * { background: var(--dark4); }

.popup_drop:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f; }

.popup_menu a:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f }

.popup_change_title_link { color: #152; }

.popup_history_row_even { background: var(--dark3); }

.popupPreview a.extiw, .popupPreview a.extiw:active { color: #36b; }

.popupPreview a.external { color: #36b; }

.oo-ui-window-body {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.codeEditor-status {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-windowManager-modal > .oo-ui-dialog {
background-color: var(--dark2_5);
}

.darkMode div#ace_settingsmenu {
color: var(--light1);
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry:hover {
background-color: var(--dark5_5);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="text"] {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
padding-left: 5px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"],
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"] {
appearance: none;
position: relative;
width: 1rem;
height: 1rem;
border: 1px solid var(--light2);
line-height: 1;
background: var(--dark5);
border-radius: 4px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]::before {
position: absolute;
width: 100%;
height: 100%;
left: 1px;
top: 1px;
text-align: center;
white-space: pre;
content: " ";
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before {
content: "\2713";
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog.ui-widget-content,
.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header {
background: var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header a.ui-dialog-titlebar-close.ui-corner-all,
.ui-dialog-content input:not([type="checkbox"]),
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group-heading,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .tool-select .label {
filter: invert(1);
}

.ui-widget-content, .wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog label {
color: var(--light1);
}

.ui-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane button {
filter: invert(1);
border: 1px solid;
}

.ui-button-text-only .ui-button-text {
filter:invert(1);
color: var(--light1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail-heading,
.oo-ui-tabSelectWidget {
background: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail {
background: var(--dark3);
}

.darkMode .lore-statues-navbar {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Template:Consensus */
.consup {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.conopp {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

.condef {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

/* Special:Preferences */
.client-js #preferences {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

/* Special:NewPages */
li.not-patrolled {
background-color: #414114;
border: 1px solid;
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

/* Unset for Userboxes to stop overwriting */
.userbox p, .userbox b, .userbox .center {
color: unset;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-header-title.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted .mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-savedLinksListWidget-placeholder.oo-ui-optionWidget .oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-viewSwitchWidget label.oo-ui-labelWidget {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget[class*=mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-name],
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-outlined .oo-ui-tagItemWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted:not(.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected) {
background: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.oo-ui-tabOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background: var(--dark3);
}

/* dialoguetree - proposed */

.dialoguetree-box {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
color:#47b1f7;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
color: var(--light1);
}

/* dialoguebox - proposed */
.dialoguebox, .mw-parser-output .dialoguebox {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

User:Kiz/common.css

2026-05-20T10:03:27Z

Kiz: m

.mw-notification {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

User:Kiz/common.js

2026-05-20T09:59:22Z

Kiz: m

mw.notify( 'Maybe this works?.', { autoHide: false } );

User:Kiz/common.js

2026-05-20T09:58:44Z

Kiz: m

mw.notify( 'Maybe this works?.' );

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-05-20T09:28:27Z

Kiz: ?

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage, .mw-notification-area {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

.popup_drop:hover .popup_menu, .popup_drop .popup_menu:hover, .popupPreview > * { background: var(--dark4); }

.popup_drop:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f; }

.popup_menu a:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f }

.popup_change_title_link { color: #152; }

.popup_history_row_even { background: var(--dark3); }

.popupPreview a.extiw, .popupPreview a.extiw:active { color: #36b; }

.popupPreview a.external { color: #36b; }

.oo-ui-window-body {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.codeEditor-status {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-windowManager-modal > .oo-ui-dialog {
background-color: var(--dark2_5);
}

.darkMode div#ace_settingsmenu {
color: var(--light1);
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry:hover {
background-color: var(--dark5_5);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="text"] {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
padding-left: 5px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"],
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"] {
appearance: none;
position: relative;
width: 1rem;
height: 1rem;
border: 1px solid var(--light2);
line-height: 1;
background: var(--dark5);
border-radius: 4px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]::before {
position: absolute;
width: 100%;
height: 100%;
left: 1px;
top: 1px;
text-align: center;
white-space: pre;
content: " ";
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before {
content: "\2713";
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog.ui-widget-content,
.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header {
background: var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header a.ui-dialog-titlebar-close.ui-corner-all,
.ui-dialog-content input:not([type="checkbox"]),
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group-heading,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .tool-select .label {
filter: invert(1);
}

.ui-widget-content, .wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog label {
color: var(--light1);
}

.ui-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane button {
filter: invert(1);
border: 1px solid;
}

.ui-button-text-only .ui-button-text {
filter:invert(1);
color: var(--light1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail-heading,
.oo-ui-tabSelectWidget {
background: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail {
background: var(--dark3);
}

.darkMode .lore-statues-navbar {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Template:Consensus */
.consup {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.conopp {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

.condef {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

/* Special:Preferences */
.client-js #preferences {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

/* Special:NewPages */
li.not-patrolled {
background-color: #414114;
border: 1px solid;
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

/* Unset for Userboxes to stop overwriting */
.userbox p, .userbox b, .userbox .center {
color: unset;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-header-title.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted .mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-savedLinksListWidget-placeholder.oo-ui-optionWidget .oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-viewSwitchWidget label.oo-ui-labelWidget {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget[class*=mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-name],
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-outlined .oo-ui-tagItemWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted:not(.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected) {
background: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.oo-ui-tabOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background: var(--dark3);
}

/* dialoguetree - proposed */

.dialoguetree-box {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
color:#47b1f7;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
color: var(--light1);
}

/* dialoguebox - proposed */
.dialoguebox, .mw-parser-output .dialoguebox {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-05-20T09:26:03Z

Kiz: !important

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage, .mw-notification-area {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

.popup_drop:hover .popup_menu, .popup_drop .popup_menu:hover, .popupPreview > * { background: var(--dark4); }

.popup_drop:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f; }

.popup_menu a:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f }

.popup_change_title_link { color: #152; }

.popup_history_row_even { background: var(--dark3); }

.popupPreview a.extiw, .popupPreview a.extiw:active { color: #36b; }

.popupPreview a.external { color: #36b; }

.oo-ui-window-body {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.codeEditor-status {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-windowManager-modal > .oo-ui-dialog {
background-color: var(--dark2_5);
}

.darkMode div#ace_settingsmenu {
color: var(--light1);
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry:hover {
background-color: var(--dark5_5);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="text"] {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
padding-left: 5px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"],
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"] {
appearance: none;
position: relative;
width: 1rem;
height: 1rem;
border: 1px solid var(--light2);
line-height: 1;
background: var(--dark5);
border-radius: 4px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]::before {
position: absolute;
width: 100%;
height: 100%;
left: 1px;
top: 1px;
text-align: center;
white-space: pre;
content: " ";
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before {
content: "\2713";
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog.ui-widget-content,
.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header {
background: var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header a.ui-dialog-titlebar-close.ui-corner-all,
.ui-dialog-content input:not([type="checkbox"]),
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group-heading,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .tool-select .label {
filter: invert(1);
}

.ui-widget-content, .wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog label {
color: var(--light1);
}

.ui-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane button {
filter: invert(1);
border: 1px solid;
}

.ui-button-text-only .ui-button-text {
filter:invert(1);
color: var(--light1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail-heading,
.oo-ui-tabSelectWidget {
background: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail {
background: var(--dark3);
}

.darkMode .lore-statues-navbar {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Template:Consensus */
.consup {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.conopp {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

.condef {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

/* Special:Preferences */
.client-js #preferences {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

/* Special:NewPages */
li.not-patrolled {
background-color: #414114;
border: 1px solid;
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

/* Unset for Userboxes to stop overwriting */
.userbox p, .userbox b, .userbox .center {
color: unset;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-header-title.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted .mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-savedLinksListWidget-placeholder.oo-ui-optionWidget .oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-viewSwitchWidget label.oo-ui-labelWidget {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget[class*=mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-name],
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-outlined .oo-ui-tagItemWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted:not(.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected) {
background: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.oo-ui-tabOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background: var(--dark3);
}

/* dialoguetree - proposed */

.dialoguetree-box {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
color:#47b1f7;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
color: var(--light1);
}

/* dialoguebox - proposed */
.dialoguebox {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

User:Kiz/common.css

2026-05-20T09:24:44Z

Kiz: blank

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-05-20T09:24:25Z

Kiz: + dialoguebox

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage, .mw-notification-area {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

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User:Kiz/common.css

2026-05-20T09:22:53Z

Kiz: m

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User:Kiz/common.css

2026-05-20T09:21:33Z

Kiz: m

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User:Kiz/common.css

2026-05-20T09:20:23Z

Kiz: blank

Skyrim:Asgeir Snow-Shod

2026-05-17T11:01:34Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3560395 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{NPC Summary
|essential=Yes, until [[Skyrim:Bound_Until_Death|Bound Until Death]]
|city=[[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]
|house=[[Skyrim:Snow-Shod Manor|Snow-Shod Manor]]
|race=Nord
|gender=Male
|class=[[Skyrim:Warrior (class)|Warrior]]
|faction={{Faction|Black Briar Meadery Faction}}; {{Faction|CrimeFactionRift}}; {{Faction|Riften House of Clan Snow-Shod Faction}}; {{Faction|Snow-Shod Farm Faction}}; {{Faction|TownRiftenFaction}}
|refid=00019DCD
|baseid=0001334B
|image=SR-npc-Asgeir_Snow-Shod.jpg
|imgdesc=Asgeir Snow-Shod
|class_details=[[Skyrim:CombatWarrior1H|CombatWarrior1H]]
|skills='''[[Skyrim:Heavy Armor|Heavy Armor]]''', '''[[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]]''', [[Skyrim:Archery|Archery]], [[Skyrim:Block|Block]], [[Skyrim:Two-handed|Two-handed]]
|aggress=Unaggressive
|level=8
|moral=Any Crime
|health=131
|magicka=50
|stamina=74
|voicetype=MaleEvenTonedAccented
}}
'''Asgeir Snow-Shod''' is a [[Skyrim:Nord|Nord]] [[Skyrim:CombatWarrior1H|warrior]] living in [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]. He works at the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar_Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]] as [[Skyrim:Maven Black-Briar|Maven Black-Briar]]'s investor and partner. His parents are [[Skyrim:Nura Snow-Shod|Nura]] and [[Skyrim:Vulwulf Snow-Shod|Vulwulf Snow-Shod]], and his brother is [[Skyrim:Unmid Snow-Shod|Unmid]]. He also had a sister, Lilija, who was killed while serving as Battle Maiden for the [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloaks]].

His family has connections to the Stormcloaks and his [[Skyrim:Bound Until Death|marriage]] to someone with [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial]] connections is seen as a step towards reconciliation. He is marked essential until he becomes the new husband of [[Skyrim:Vittoria Vici|Vittoria Vici]] in the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] quest.

Asgeir wears a set of [[Skyrim:Fine_Clothes#00086991|fine clothes]] and a pair of [[Skyrim:Fine_Boots#00086993|fine boots]]. He is equipped with a leveled [[Skyrim:Sword|sword]] which can be up to [[Skyrim:Elven|elven]] quality. He carries two leveled [[Skyrim:Gems|gems]], a [[Skyrim:Snow-Shod House Key|key]] to [[Skyrim:Snow-Shod Manor|his manor]], and a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled Lists#Rich|upper-class loot and gold]].

He will drop [[Skyrim:Asgeir's Wedding Band|his wedding band]] if killed. If he is not killed during the related quest, the band will remain in his inventory unequipped and can be pickpocketed from him afterwards.
{{NewLeft}}
==Related Quests==
* {{Quest Link|Bound Until Death}}
* {{Quest Link|Spread the Love}}
==Quest-Related Events==
===Bound Until Death===
[[File:SR-quest-Bound Until Death 02.jpg|thumb|right|Asgeir and Vittoria at their wedding]]
During this quest, Asgeir will be found in [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]] as the proud groom to Vittoria Vici. When you approach him, he will greet you with:
:''"Make sure to get yourself something to drink."''
:''"You hungry? There's plenty of food. Eat up, now."''

He may also jokingly say either:
:''"Now now, fella. Let's not get too close to my new bride, eh?"'' (If you are male)
:''"Well aren't you a pretty thing? Should my new bride {{Sic|by|be}} worried? He he he he."'' (If you are female)

You can congratulate him and mention how it's quite a day, which he will agree:
:'''Congratulations. Quite the day, hmm?'''
:''"The best. Vittoria's a good woman. Any man should be so lucky. I know my father's not happy about me marrying an Imperial, but that's his problem."''

As Vittoria Vici lies dead, the now-widowed Asgeir can be found screaming:
:''"My wife is dead! Dead!"''
Should he survive the wedding, he will now detest you for murdering Vittoria.

===Spread the Love===
If you [[Skyrim:Spread the Love|give]] him a [[Skyrim:The Warmth of Mara|religious missive]]:
:''' Here, brother. Blessings of Mara upon you.'''
:''"Not really my usual read, but I'll give it a try."''
==Dialogue==
He shows that he is charitable, as he gives a coin to Riften's beggars, saying:
:''"Of course, here. Be well."'' to [[Skyrim:Edda|Edda]] and ''"Absolutely. Here you are. Be well."'' to [[Skyrim:Snilf|Snilf]].

Asgeir will greet you with:
:''"Sorry, I'm afraid I can't help you much right now... I'm currently in mourning."''
:''"You've caught me at a bad time. I've lost someone dear to me."''
:''"Yes? What is it?"''

Ending conversation with him will have him say:
:''"It's been good talking to you."''

When spoken to directly you can ask questions:
:'''May I ask why you're in mourning?'''
:''"It was my sister, Lilija. She served as a Battle Maiden with the Stormcloaks. We recently heard she'd been killed... I... I find it difficult to talk about. Perhaps you'd be better off speaking to my parents about it. Anyway, I'm glad my work at the Black-Briar Meadery keeps me busy. Helps me keep my mind off of things."''

:'''You're involved with the meadery?'''
:''"Yes, actually. I'm partnered with Maven Black-Briar. I put up a chunk of the gold she needed to get the place off the ground. We've been staggeringly successful so far. In fact, I'm almost surprised how quickly she's generated business for us. My name may not be on the label, but some of my blood, sweat and tears are in every drop. Uh, figuratively of course."''

:'''Tell me about your parents.'''
:''"My father was a Stormcloak soldier in his younger days. Now he just walks the streets spewing his hatred and propaganda. My mother is the Priestess of [[Lore:Talos|Talos]]. She tends to the shrine and teaches his ways. I'm just not so sure she's delivering the right message."''
:'''Are you at odds with them?'''
:''"Don't mistake my political beliefs as a substitute for my family values. They're still my parents, and I love them dearly. I just think they've let my sister's death skew their outlook on [[Skyrim:Ulfric Stormcloak|Ulfric]] and what he really brings to the table with [[Skyrim:Civil_War|this war]]. I'm not so certain that Ulfric's intentions are as noble as they think. I think Ulfric cares about Ulfric and the rest is a smokescreen. I'd... appreciate if you kept my opinion between us. The last thing I want to do is have my parents 'lose' another child."''
{{NewLeft}}
== Conversations ==
At [[Skyrim:The Bee and Barb|the Bee and Barb]], Asgeir and his father can be heard conversing:
{|class=hiddentable
|'''Asgeir''':||''"I'm sorry you disapprove, father. But I've made up my mind. I'm not a warrior, I'm a businessman."''
|-
|'''Vulwulf''':||''"The only reason you have the gold for your 'business' is because I gave it to you."''
|-
|'''Asgeir''':||''"I'll pay you back, if it means that much."''
|-
|'''Vulwulf''':||''"It's not about the coin, it's about honoring your legacy by picking up arms and keeping this land free. The sooner you remember that, the better."''
|-
| 
|-
|'''Vulwulf''':||''"Drink up, my boy! Drink to those who have fallen! May their souls find their way to [[Skyrim:Sovngarde (place)|Sovngarde]]!"''
|-
|'''Asgeir''':||''"Take it easy, father. You're making a scene."''
|-
|'''Vulwulf''':||''"I'll rest easy when we've driven every last Imperial pig back across the [[Skyrim:Jerall Mountains|Jerall Mountains]]! Now, do me the honor I deserve as your father and drink up!"''
|-
|'''Asgeir''':||''"Yes... father."''
|}

At their house, the family may discuss about Asgeir's profession:
{|class=hiddentable
|'''Nura''':||''"How are things at the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Meadery|Meadery]], my dear?"''
|-
|'''Vulwulf''':||''"Not this again..."''
|-
|'''Nura''':||''"Hush, Vulwulf... let the boy speak."''
|-
|'''Asgeir''':||''"It's going very well, actually. The war hasn't even slowed down our production or shipping at all."''
|-
|'''Vulwulf''':||''"Of course it is. That's what happens when you're partners with a corrupt [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial]] whore like Maven."''
|-
|'''Nura''':||''"Vulwulf! The Empire may be our enemy, but Asgeir is still our son and we're a long way from [[Lore:Cyrodiil|Cyrodiil]]."''
|-
|'''Asgeir''':||''"Father, I promise you, this has nothing to do with Empires or politics. It's just business."''
|-
|'''Vulwulf''':||''"It has everything to do with politics. Asgeir my son, you have so much to learn."''
|}

Skyrim:Aspiring Mage

2026-05-17T10:59:57Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3560397 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{NPC Summary
|essential=
|loc=
|race=Nord
|gender=Male
|class=[[Skyrim:Warrior (class)|Warrior]]
|faction={{Faction|WIGenericCrimeFaction}}
|refid=
|baseid=000753CB
|image=SR-npc-Aspiring_Mage.jpg
|imgdesc=The Aspiring Mage
|class_details=[[Skyrim:CombatWarrior1H|CombatWarrior1H]]
|aggress=Unaggressive
|level=1
|moral=No Crime
|health=50
|magicka=50
|stamina=50
|voicetype=MaleCommonerAccented
}} [[Category:Skyrim-NPCs-World Interactions]]
The '''Aspiring Mage''' is a [[SR:Nord|Nord]] [[Skyrim:CombatWarrior1H|warrior]] who is [[Skyrim:World Interactions#College Application Denied|randomly encountered]] in the wilderness. He can be seen attempting to [[Skyrim:Reanimate_Corpse|reanimate the corpse]] of a woodland creature. He had wanted to follow in his grandfather's footsteps and become a mage, but his application to join the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] was denied. It turns out he is only able to cast magic because of his grandfather's [[Skyrim:Staves#Reanimate|leveled staff of reanimation]]. You may persuade him to give you the staff, intimidate him, or just pay for it.

The Aspiring Mage wears a set of farm [[Skyrim:Clothes#0006c1d9|clothes]] and a pair of [[Skyrim:Boots#000209a5|boots]]. Apart from his staff, he also carries a leveled [[Skyrim:Soul Gems|soul gem]].
{{NewLeft}}
==Dialogue==
As he tries to reanimate the creature, he will intone:
:''"Rise up and live again!"''
:''"I grant you a new life!"''
:''"Come on, get up!"''
:''"This should work. I've done it before."''
:''"Gah! This staff is useless... I'm useless. The whole world is useless!"''

You can approach him to ask what the problem is:
:'''What's the problem?'''
:''"Oh... hello there. Didn't notice you come up. I was focusing my magicka. Or at least, I thought I was. I don't really know what I'm doing."''

You can reply in two ways:

:'''Yes. It's painfully obvious you don't know what you're doing.'''
::''"You don't have to tell me that."''

:'''That's quite a staff you have there.'''
::''"I used to think so, too."''

Either way, he will continue by explaining:
:''"See, my grandfather was a wizard. My father wouldn't talk about him much. But I found some of his things in the attic. Including this staff. After that I thought I was turning into a wizard too, because dead things near me would come to life again for while. I even went to the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]]. But they just laughed at me. The magic is in the staff, not in me they said."''

At this point, you can try to acquire the staff from him.

{|class=wikitable
!Player Choice!! Response
|-
|'''Give the staff to me before someone gets hurt.''' ''(Persuade)''|| '''Passed:''' ''"Okay, okay. You've talked me into it."'' '''Failed:''' ''"Nah. I don't think so."''
|-
|'''Hand over the staff, or else.''' ''(Intimidate)''|| '''Passed:''' ''"No need to get rough!"'' '''Failed:''' ''"I don't have to take that from you!"''
|-
|'''Seems like coin would be worth more to you.''' ''(<BribeCost> gold)''|| '''Passed:''' ''"Gold solves most problems, doesn't it?"''
|}

A successful attempt will have him say:
:''"In fact. Keep it. I must have used up the magic in the staff or something. It's just a dumb stick of wood now."''
{{NewLeft}}
==Bugs==
{{Bug|He never unloads properly from the game, because the associated world encounter does not complete as it should.|USKP|2.0.4}}
{{Bug|He may not have his staff equipped and may not actually be wielding it when encountered in the wilderness.|USKP|2.0.5}}

Skyrim:Assur

2026-05-17T10:59:49Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3560398 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{NPC Summary
|city=[[Skyrim:Winterhold|Winterhold]]
|loc=[[Skyrim:Jarl's Longhouse (Winterhold)|Jarl's Longhouse]] [[Skyrim:Brunwulf Free-Winter's House|Brunwulf Free-Winter's House]]
|race=Nord
|gender=Male
|class=[[Skyrim:Child (class)|Child]]
|faction={{Faction|CrimeFactionWinterhold}}; {{Faction|Ruling Government}}; {{Faction|Sons of Skyrim Government}}; {{Faction|TownWinterholdFaction}}
|refid=0001C1B7
|baseid=0001C18A
|image=SR-npc-Assur.jpg
|imgdesc=Assur
|child=1
|skills=[[Skyrim:Smithing|Smithing]], [[Skyrim:Two-handed|Two-handed]]
|aggress=Unaggressive
|level=4
|moral=No Crime
|health=65
|magicka=0
|stamina=80
|voicetype=MaleChild
}}
'''Assur''' is a [[Skyrim:Nord|Nord]] [[Skyrim:Child|child]] who lives in [[Skyrim:Jarl's Longhouse (Winterhold)|the jarl's longhouse]] in [[Skyrim:Winterhold|Winterhold]] with his parents [[Skyrim:Jarl|Jarl]] [[Skyrim:Korir|Korir]] and [[Skyrim:Thaena|Thaena]]. He is Korir's heir and will become the next jarl of Winterhold after Korir, unless Korir is deposed. His only playmate is [[Skyrim:Eirid|Eirid]], with whom he plays "Hunt the Elf".

Assur wakes up at 9am for a one-hour breakfast, then wanders the longhouse. At 12pm, he goes outside to play with Eirid, stopping at 6pm for a two-hour dinner at [[Skyrim:The Frozen Hearth|the Frozen Hearth]]. He stays home for one hour until 9pm when he goes to bed. If the [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]] takes over Winterhold, however, he and his parents will be exiled to [[Skyrim:Brunwulf Free-Winter's House|Brunwulf Free-Winter's House]], where they will stay all day.

Assur wears red colored [[Skyrim:Child's Clothes|child's clothes]] and a pair of [[Skyrim:Clothing#000e80a8|shoes]]. He carries a selection of [[Skyrim:Leveled Lists#Child|food and toys]] and a small amount of gold.
{{NewLeft}}
==Dialogue==
When near him, he will say things like:
:''"My pa says elves are bad and not to trust 'em."''
:''"Did you know that most of Winterhold fell into the sea? I heard it's because of that [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College]]."''
:''"Someday I'm gonna grow up and be the Jarl."''
:''"I heard the College teaches you how to kill people with magic. Is that true?"''

If you are of a human race, he will tell you:
:''"We don't get many people like you visiting Winterhold. Usually it's elves."''

If you are not, he will instead ask:
:''"How come you're in Winterhold? My pa says people like you are the reason no one lives here anymore."''

In exile, he will only say:
:''"Pa says the Empire made us leave, but the Empire just does whatever the elves tell them to."''

Sometimes, Assur will come up to you and say:
:''"Eirid and I are playing Hunt the Elf. It's my job to find the Elf, and kill it dead. Have you seen it?"''

You have five dialogue options to reply with:

{|class=wikitable
|-
!width=30%|Topic
!width=35%|Dialogue
|-
|'''She's hiding over near the Inn.'''||''"Thanks!"''
|-
|'''She's hiding at the north end of town.'''||''"Thanks!"''
|-
|'''She's hiding on the east side of town.'''||''"All right!"''
|-
|'''I know where she is, but I'm not telling you.'''||''"Fine, Elf-Lover. I'll find her myself."''
|-
|'''I don't know where she is.'''||''"I'll find that Elf. I always do."''
|}

Whichever your reply is, he will run off to try and find Eirid.

==Conversations==
:'''Assur:''' ''"Eirid says the mages at the College are nice people, but you said they're bad."''
:'''Korir:''' ''"Eirid's a little girl who doesn't understand that they're responsible for destroying our home."''
:'''Assur:''' ''"Why did they do that? Why would they be so evil?"''
:'''Korir:''' ''"Because they don't care about you or I, cub. They think they're better than all of us, and that we can just be thrown away."''
:'''Assur:''' ''"I hate them."''
:'''Korir:''' ''"That's my boy."''

==Rumors==
If you approach Eirid, you will find that she does not think the same as Assur about the College:
:''"Assur says his pa says the College made lots of bad things happen, but the mages I've seen look nice."''
She'll also tell you how Assur acts when they play:
:''"There's not many people left in Winterhold, so I only have Assur to play with, and sometimes he's mean."'', explaining why she thinks so:
:''"He always wants to play 'Hunt the Elf', and he makes me be the elf."''

==Notes==
*The "Hunt the Elf" scene between Eirid and Assur does not work due to invalid condition checks.

==Bugs==
{{Bug|Assur can't sleep in his bed due to it being owned by the <code>WinterholdJarlFaction</code>, of which he isn't a part.|USKP|2.0.0|trackerid=13400|The bed's ownership is set to Assur instead.}}

Skyrim:First Time Players

2026-05-17T10:59:35Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3560401 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{Trail|Hints}}{{Incomplete}}{{TOCright}}
This page will help you begin your ''[[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]]'' adventure on a good note. Relevant links will guide you to more detailed information. For general gameplay tips, see [[Skyrim:Hints|Hints]].

==For Complete Elder Scrolls Newbies==
If you've never played an ''[[General:The Elder Scrolls|Elder Scrolls]]'' game in your life, and ''Skyrim'' is your very first adventure in Tamriel, well then... the most important piece of advice is: '''Play the game!''' Stop reading this Wiki, and just go have fun enjoying the game. When you're starting out, don't worry about making mistakes, and don't worry about playing efficiently. The premise of this page is that at first, it is most important to spend as much time as possible playing, and as little time as possible reading.

But, if you've already played an ''Elder Scrolls'' game before (such as ''[[Morrowind:Morrowind|Morrowind]]'' or ''[[Oblivion:Oblivion|Oblivion]]''), this page will give you some tips to help you hit the ground running.

==The Basics==
===[[Skyrim:Character Creation|Character Creation]]===
*[[Skyrim:Races|Race]] determines your initial skill bonuses; choosing initial skills which match your preferred play style can help early in the game, but differences are relatively small and can be quickly overcome.
*Any player character can master any skill regardless of race.
*Certain races are somewhat better suited for different styles of combat and character types, but you are in no way required to follow them:
**''[[#Warrior|Warrior]]'' archetype: [[Skyrim:Imperial|Imperials]], [[Skyrim:Nord|Nords]], [[Skyrim:Orc|Orcs]], and [[Skyrim:Redguard|Redguards]];
**''[[#Thief/Assassin|Stealth]]'' archetype: [[Skyrim:Argonian|Argonians]], [[Skyrim:Wood Elf|Wood Elves]], and [[Skyrim:Khajiit|Khajiit]];
**''[[#Mage|Mage]]'' archetype: [[Skyrim:Breton|Bretons]], [[Skyrim:Dark Elf|Dark Elves]], and [[Skyrim:High Elf|High Elves]].
*Ideal hybrid playstyles are...
**Nords are perhaps best suited for dodging and hit-and-run tactics. Their bonus to light armor will keep players nimble and agile, while their bonus to [[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]] weapons can make for good dual-wielding.
**Dark Elves make good mage/assassins. Their bonus in [[Skyrim:Illusion|Illusion]] magic can help with crowd-control while improving their stealth via [[Skyrim:Muffle (spell)|Muffle]] and [[Skyrim:Invisibility (spell)|Invisibility]] spells. Their [[Skyrim:Alteration|Alteration]] bonus can help with their thievery (telekinesis) and knowing when enemies are around (Detect Life and Detect Dead).
**Redguards make some of the best spellswords (magic/melee hybrid) due to their bonuses in both combat and offensive magic. They are also well-suited for dual-wielding due to their Adrenaline Rush ability which helps manage the high stamina cost of dual power attacks.
**[[Skyrim:Breton|Bretons]] can make excellent battlemages, due to their bonuses to defensive magic. Their bonus in Conjuration can assist in summoning allies and weapons to assist in battle, negating the need to carry around heavy weapons and supplementing the assistance given by [[Skyrim:Followers|followers]].
*Some Racial Abilities and Powers still give advantage later in the game, even when skills are raised to their maximum.
**The health regeneration of the Argonians, the extra magicka and magicka regeneration of the High Elves, and the stamina regeneration of the Redguards.
**The magic resistance of the Bretons and damage/defense combo of the Orcs.
*Your appearance has no effect on gameplay, although a few NPCs will make comments specific to your race.
*You only get one chance to make and design your character so spend as much time as you want tweaking every last detail.
**The ''[[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]]'' [[Skyrim:Add-ons|add-on]] adds the chance to [[Skyrim:Surgery|change]] your character's features (anything but race and gender) in the [[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]] in [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]] by speaking to [[Skyrim:Galathil|Galathil]].
*It is often best to just jump in and play a character for a bit to see whether it suits you or not, as you can always create a new character.
**If on default settings, the game should automatically save before you are asked for your name, making it easier to skip the introduction and remake your character.
*Your character's sex is more relevant in ''Skyrim'' than in previous ''Elder Scrolls'' games due to the [[Skyrim:Speech|Speech]] perk ''[[Skyrim:Allure|Allure]]'', which allows you to get 10% better prices when dealing with merchants of the opposite sex, and the melee damage ability ''[[Skyrim:Agent of Dibella|Agent of Dibella]]'', which grants 10% extra damage against anyone of the opposite sex. Overall, there are more male merchants and male NPCs in the game, and many creatures are treated as male by game mechanics; thus, playing as a female character might be more beneficial. However, there is no requirement for you to take the ''Allure'' perk or complete the quest that grants ''Agent of Dibella'', although many characters will have one or both of those abilities.

===[[Skyrim:Controls|Controls]]===
*The Items menu allows you to select weapons or scrolls for each hand, equip armor and apparel, consume food and potions, or drop items when the [[Skyrim:Carry Weight|weight]] of your inventory is too high.
*The Magic menu allows you to select [[Skyrim:Spells|Spells]], [[Skyrim:Shout|Dragon Shouts]], and [[Skyrim:Powers|Powers]], as well as check any active effects such as diseases.
*The in-game Map will show where you are in the world, and can be used for [[Skyrim:Fast Travel#Fast Travel|fast travel]].
*The Skill menu shows the level of every one of your skills. From this menu you can choose new perks for skills and check your current progress towards reaching the next level. When you have gained enough experience, the Skill menu will change to Level Up which, when selected, allows you to level up and pick an attribute to increase.
*There's a ''Quest Journal'', which shares a menu with your Options and Statistics.
*You can navigate back to the central menu by moving in the opposite direction. (So press left from the Equipment menu, right from Magic, etc.)
*You can ''favorite'' items and spells from the inventory and spell menus so that they appear in the favorites menu, a small menu that is easy to access during gameplay. Having a group of items and spells that you use often can save you considerable time and effort. You can also select weapons, spells, dragon shouts and other items in the favorites category to hot key for even faster selection.

=== [[Skyrim:Attributes|Attributes]] ===
There are three attributes:
:*[[Skyrim:Health|Health]] is the amount of damage you can take before dying.
:*[[Skyrim:Magicka|Magicka]] is the energy used to cast spells.
:*[[Skyrim:Stamina|Stamina]] is used to sprint and perform power attacks.
*You can increase '''one''' attribute by '''10 points''' each time you level up (e.g: you can upgrade your magicka from 100 to 110). If you increase stamina, then your maximum carry weight is also increased by 5.
*Attributes will '''not''' increase unless you select them when you level up.
*You cannot leave the level up menu until you have chosen an attribute to increase. In other words, you cannot "save up" attribute increases as you can with perks unless you avoid entering the level up menu.
*There are several enchantments available that increase your attributes.

===[[Skyrim:Combat|Combat]]===
*Hold down the attack button to charge a power attack, or charge an arrow up to full strength.
:* You can press the Draw weapon/Sheath weapon button to cancel firing your bow, and save the arrow.
*You can equip spells to both hands to cast them simultaneously. If you have the same spell in both hands and have taken the appropriate Dual-Casting perk, the spell will be cast with greater effect.
*Attacking with a weapon while [[Skyrim:Sneak|hidden]] deals additional sneak attack damage
*Pressing the attack button while blocking with a shield performs a shield bash.
*You can block with a single one-handed weapon (the other hand being empty and with no spell selected), two-handed weapons, shields, or torches, (none of which are as effective as blocking with a shield) but not while dual-wielding weapons or spells, nor while wielding a spell in one hand and having the other hand empty.
*Many [[Skyrim:Skill Perks|Skill Perks]] add depth and strategy to battles.
*Pressing the Block button while using a bow works as follows:
:*Pressing the Block button without the bow being drawn performs a bash with the bow.
:*Pressing the Block button with the bow drawn zooms in with [[Skyrim:Archery#Skill Perks|Eagle Eye]] perk and slows time by either 25% or 50% with the [[Skyrim:Archery#Skill Perks|Steady Hand]] perk. Without these perks, it does nothing.

===Death===
When you die, the screen locks into a third person slow-motion perspective of the player character's death for a few seconds, then the most recent save is automatically loaded. This can rarely cause infinite loops if the game autosaves shortly before your death, as it is not possible to enter the Main Menu while in the deathcam. This will require exiting the game and reverting to an earlier save file.

===[[Skyrim:Skills|Skills]] and [[Skyrim:Leveling|Leveling]]===
*Gain skill points through using the skill, training with an NPC, or by reading [[Skyrim:Skill Books|skill books]].
*You can increase skills with [[Skyrim:trainers|trainers]] a maximum of five times per level. You cannot "save up" training sessions; the number of times you can train is reset to five each time you go up a level.
*You gain experience toward leveling your character by increasing skills. Low level skills increase faster while higher level skills increase slower but give more progress towards the next level.
*Each skill has a [[Skyrim:Skill Perks|Perk]] tree. Better perks have higher requirements.
*You get one perk point per level and may assign it permanently at any time.
*Once you have assigned a perk, there is no way to "unassign" (undo) your choice.
**Once the ''[[Skyrim:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]]'' add-on's [[Skyrim:Dragonborn Quests|main quest]] has been completed, you have the opportunity to reset the perks in a skill tree, allowing you to reassign them to any skill tree. It will cost one dragon soul per skill tree.
**With version 1.9 of the [[Skyrim:Patch|official patch]] installed, when a skill reaches 100, it can be made Legendary. This reverts the skill to level 15 and refunds assigned perks points to be spent as you see fit. As a result, this removes the original level cap of 81.
*One [[Skyrim:Attributes|attribute]] ([[Skyrim:Health|Health]], [[Skyrim:Magicka|Magicka]], [[Skyrim:Stamina|Stamina]]) can be increased by 10 points each level. Stamina also increases your carry weight by 5 points.
*There are lots of opportunities to gain [[Skyrim:Free Skill Boosts|free skill boosts]] by completing certain quests. It is recommended to save these boosts until the skill is almost 100, as at that point skills are difficult to raise.
*Training is more expensive for higher skills. Trainers cannot raise your skill past level 90.
*The ''Dragonborn'' add-on allows you to level up a skill by 2 levels when you read a book related to that skill. Therefore, it is best to save books until you have reached level 90 in that particular skill, and ''then'' read the book.

=== [[Skyrim:Quests|Quests]] ===
*Quests can be started from practically anywhere: in a town, city or other settlement, in the wilderness, or even in the middle of a dungeon. A small number of quests can even be started by reading a book.
*Quests appear in your journal and can be marked as active or inactive. A quest will automatically become active if it's the only quest in your journal, or if you have no active quest when you receive a new quest. You may go into the menu yourself and select one or more quests to make active.
*Any quests that are marked as active will have a marker to their objective on the compass and map; be aware that on rare occasions there will not be an arrow to the objective depending on the objective.
*A good way to find quests is to talk to people in towns and, in particular, tavern owners.
*Many quests end with having to fight a boss-level enemy which is usually much stronger than any other enemies previously encountered during that quest.
*Common rewards for quests include (but are not limited to) money, enchanted equipment, or [[Skyrim:Followers|followers]].
*Miscellaneous quests are usually shorter quests that have smaller rewards. They have their own subsection and can also be toggled as active or inactive. '''Both''' the individual miscellaneous quest itself and the Miscellaneous Quests section must be active to have those quest arrows appear. Some miscellaneous objectives lead to full quests.

===[[Skyrim:Services|Services]]===
*[[Skyrim:Inns|Inns]], [[Skyrim:Merchants|merchants]], and [[Skyrim:Blacksmith|blacksmiths]] can be found offering services in towns.
*You can rent rooms at various inns around [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]] for ten [[Skyrim:Gold|gold]] for twenty-four in-game hours. During this time, you may sleep multiple times as you have temporary ownership of the bed during this period. In addition, you may utilize the bed past this time, as long as you begin your sleep before the twenty-four hours have elapsed.
*Some NPCs offer [[Skyrim:Trainers|training]] in skills. You may only train five times per level.
*Some NPCs will also sell spells in the form of spell tomes. Merchants may only have a few available, so budding mages should also check with a [[Skyrim:Court Wizard|Court Wizard]], usually found inside a Jarl's palace. Higher level spell tomes will not appear until you have the appropriate skill level in that school of magic.
*Major [[Skyrim:Places#Cities|cities]] have [[Skyrim:Carriage|carriages]] traveling between them, helping you discover new places; however use of a carriage costs gold.
*Certain NPCs can become your [[Skyrim:Followers|followers]]. Your character can even get [[Skyrim:marriage|married]] to certain characters, regardless of your gender or race.
**Among other benefits, followers can carry some of your equipment.
*You can buy and ride [[Skyrim:Horses|horses]]. They can climb steep terrains such as mountains, but be careful as they die easily from falls.

===[[Skyrim:Magical Effects|Magical Effects]]===
*[[Skyrim:Ingredients|Ingredients]] can be consumed for a minor effect or used to create potions via [[Skyrim:Alchemy|Alchemy]]. Either option will gradually increase your Alchemy skill level. Consuming an ingredient will reveal the first of its effects (more with the [[Skyrim:Experimenter|Experimenter]] perk).
*[[Skyrim:Potions|Potions]] and [[Skyrim:Food|food]] are consumed for their temporary effects.
*[[Skyrim:Scrolls|Scrolls]] are spells that can only be used once per scroll; they have no magicka cost.
*[[Skyrim:Spells|Spells]] cost [[Skyrim:Magicka|magicka]] and are dependent on your skill levels. New [[Skyrim:Spell Tomes|spell tomes]] become available to purchase at higher skill levels.
*[[Skyrim:Magic Items#Apparel|Magic apparel]] gives you constant magical effects.
*[[Skyrim:Soul Gems|Soul gems]] are used for creating [[Skyrim:Enchanting#Skill Usage|custom enchantments]] on items or for recharging [[Skyrim:Magic Items#Weapons|magic weapons]].
*To discover new [[Skyrim:Enchanting Effects|enchanting effects]] for enchanting, you must disenchant a magic item with the effect you wish to learn, which will destroy the item.
*[[Skyrim:Abilities|Abilities]] are constant effects.
*[[Skyrim:Powers|Powers]] are useful spells which can be used without cost, usually once per day.
*New abilities and powers can be acquired from some quests.
*[[Skyrim:Standing Stones|Standing stones]] offer a number of abilities and powers, but you may only have one active at a time.
*[[Skyrim:Dragon Shouts|Dragon shouts]] can be unlocked after a certain point in the main quest. They do not require any magicka nor do they rely on skill in any of the magic schools to use. They have a separate ''cool-down'' timer, with each shout requiring a different amount of time before you can shout again. In order to unlock new shouts you must find a [[Skyrim:Word Wall|word wall]], and then use a [[Skyrim:Dragon|dragon]] soul to unlock a word of the shout. There are three words of each shout and each word increases the shout's power.
*Activating a [[Skyrim:Shrines|shrine]] will give you a [[Skyrim:Blessings|blessing]] and cure any [[Skyrim:Disease|diseases]] you may have, but will remove any other blessings you currently have.

===[[Skyrim:Factions|Factions]]===
*Player Characters and NPCs can belong to more than one faction at a time. Only the [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloaks]] and [[Skyrim:Imperial Legion|Imperial Legion]] factions are mutually exclusive in the original version of the game.
**When the ''[[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]]'' add-on is installed, another pair of mutually exclusive factions is added: the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard (faction)|Dawnguard]] and the [[Skyrim:Volkihar Vampire Clan|Volkihar vampire clan]].
*Faction memberships sway the [[Skyrim:disposition|dispositions]] of all NPCs and creatures, both towards the player and towards one another.
*Certain regions are controlled by different factions, called [[Skyrim:Holds|Holds]], and bounty for [[Skyrim:Crime|crime]] does not pass over their borders.
*There are four guilds that the player can join: the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] for mages, the [[Skyrim:Companions|Companions]] for warriors, the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] for assassins, and the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]] for thieves.
** The four guilds can be joined at any time, and they have their own storylines that are almost completely separate from each other.
** You may want to join a faction early on since they give radiant quests and offer master training in some related skills.

===[[Skyrim:Activities|Activities]]===
*There are a huge number of things to do in ''Skyrim''. Some are profitable, like crafting armor and mixing potions, and some are less than profitable, such as drinking and playing children's games.
*[[Skyrim:Smithing#Skill Usage|Smithing]] gives you access to high-end equipment much earlier than would otherwise be possible.
*[[Skyrim:Alchemy|Alchemy]] allows you to make your own potions and poisons out of various ingredients found throughout ''Skyrim'', or bought from vendors.
*[[Skyrim:Enchanting|Enchanting]] allows you to add magical effects to your weapons and apparel.

== Starting Out ==
*Shortly after you escape from Helgen, you can follow your companion to Riverwood. On the way there, you will pass the [[Skyrim:Standing Stones|Guardian Stones]]; activating one of these provides a useful bonus that will help you raise your skill experience faster and therefore level-up more quickly. Additionally, there are more [[Skyrim:Standing Stones|Standing Stones]] that you can find that provide unique bonuses and powers, although you can only have one active at a time unless you have the Aetherial Crown from the ''Dawnguard'' add-on.

*Just to the west of the Guardian Stones, in the center of the adjacent lake, is a small island hosting another standing stone: [[Skyrim:The Lady Stone|The Lady Stone]], which is arguably more useful for eager dungeon-delvers than the Guardian Stones, especially if you do not wish to level up too fast. Don't worry about being ambushed on your way to this island, as you will soon learn, during your first swim, that combat is disabled while in water; this restriction applies to everyone, not just you. The only exception is slaughterfish, but if you beeline to the Lady Stone from the Guardian Stones, you should be able to out-swim any slaughterfish that try to attack you, and then fast-travel back to the Guardian Stones.

*Just south of the [[Skyrim:Standing Stones|Guardian Stones]] is a small unmarked camp occupied by three [[Skyrim:Bandit|bandits]]. In this camp you will find a [[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]] [[Skyrim:Skill Books|skill book]] titled ''[[Skyrim:Night Falls on Sentinel|Night Falls on Sentinel]]'', and a [[Skyrim:Treasure Map I|treasure map]]. If you continue along the road toward the west, you will see steps leading to a [[Skyrim:Shrines|Shrine of Talos]] surrounded by corpses. On the corpse of the [[Skyrim:Thalmor Justiciar#Justiciars|Thalmor Justiciar]] you will always find one piece of enchanted armor.

* Just across the river, north of the Guardian Stones, is [[Skyrim:Anise's Cabin|a shack with a single occupant]]. This place never respawns and has a bed, alchemy table and enchanter, making it a good starter home. If you prefer to only kill in self-defense, try "exploring" the occupant's cellar; she will attack you after resurfacing, allowing you to kill her guilt-free.

*At the beginning of the game, pick up as much armor and weaponry as you can carry. Even if you don't need any of it, you can sell it in nearby towns such as [[Skyrim:Riverwood|Riverwood]] or [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]].

*A profitable way to make money is by [[Skyrim:Chop Wood|chopping wood]], [[Skyrim:Mining|mining]], and [[Skyrim:Gather Wheat|harvesting wheat]]. These activities are geared towards low-level players who are just starting out. For example, when you first arrive in Riverwood, you will find a woodcutter's axe near the mill. Cut wood by picking up the axe and activating a wood-chopping block, and then bring the firewood back to an NPC that's willing to pay you for firewood, such as [[Skyrim:Hod|Hod]] in Riverwood.

*After you complete [[Skyrim:Favors|favor quests]] for some NPCs, they will allow you to take low value items from their store or house. This is a good way to gain small sums of gold and basic potions, as well as [[Skyrim:Ingredients|ingredients]] for [[Skyrim:Alchemy|Alchemy]]. Also, note that for the NPCs for whom you chop wood, mine, and harvest, selling them those items counts as a favor quest, so check to see if you can take free items from their houses as well.

*Don't bother carrying anything to resell that has a value of one gold, unless it has zero weight. Shopkeepers give you a fraction of an item's value, and after rounding to the nearest gold, they'll pay you nothing. This is true even if you sell several of the same item at the same time because they calculate the price of one item and then multiply it by the number of items. Eventually those one gold items will be worth one gold each, when your [[Skyrim:Speech|speech skill]] is high enough, but until then they are worthless.

*Do not expect to be able to carry out everything that you loot in a dungeon, because once you exceed your carrying capacity, you move much more slowly.

*Talk to people in towns, especially innkeepers, to find out about side quests that can earn you gold or other rewards.

*If you find that enemies are too difficult or you cannot carry as much as you would like, try to recruit a [[Skyrim:Followers|follower]].

*Completing the [[Skyrim:A Lovely Letter|Love Triangle]] quest in Riverwood will allow you to use [[Skyrim:Faendal|Faendal]] or [[Skyrim:Sven|Sven]] as a follower, depending on how you handle the quest. Faendal can also train you in [[Skyrim:Archery|Archery]], which may be useful to some players. Faendal's Archery training can be {{Hover|This exploit is fixed in the Unofficial Skyrim Patch|exploited}}, as you can pay him and then immediately go into his inventory and take the gold back.

*Joining certain [[Skyrim:factions|factions]] can provide the player with a free home where they can rest and store loot for selling or personal use later on.

*Clearing out dungeons at the start of the game will help to increase skills and will also allow you to find more loot. Some special loot in these dungeons may be useful in a later quest, so keeping any unique items you find is advised.

*Don't spend all of your perk points in a hurry; you may want to use your skills a bit more before you decide which ones to invest in.

*Buying a [[Skyrim:Houses|house]] will ensure that you always have a safe place to sleep and store your items. Houses of varying price and quality can be purchased in all of the major cities after performing a few quests.

*For the first few hours of gameplay, you may want to set the difficulty to Novice or Apprentice until you get the hang of combat.

*To start out, pick a weapon style (e.g. [[Skyrim:One-handed|One Handed]] melee weapons, [[Skyrim:Destruction|Destruction]] magic, etc.), and one armor type ([[Skyrim:Light Armor|Light]] or [[Skyrim:Heavy Armor|Heavy]]), and stick with them. Diversity can be explored once you get the hang of combat.

*If you are a veteran and a perfectionist, you can follow such steps to get a perfect experience:
*#Once start and get an autosave as the name Prisoner, don't delete the first save, run out of [[SR:Helgen Keep|Helgen Keep]] and finish Companion quest [[SR:Take Up Arms|Take Up Arms]] as qucikly as possible, make sure the next quest is [[SR:Hired Muscle|Hired Muscle]], because this quest requires your [[SR:Speech|Speech]] level is low, or you won't get the quest forever. And because the next quest type after Take Up Arms is determined when you start a new game, it can only be changed by starting another new game.
*#Make sure [[SR:Lokir|Lokir]]'s inventory has no arrow after he's killed, this can be checked by using command <code>inv</code> when selecting his model. If he gets an arrow in his inventory, your save file will be larger slightly forever.
*#After get out of [[SR:Helgen Keep|Helgen Keep]], don't follow [[SR:Hadvar|Hadvar]] or [[SR:Ralof|Ralof]], instead just fast travel back to Helgen and you will be at the east gate, continuely run east to get two skill books [[SR:The Buying Game|The Buying Game]] and [[SR:Hallgerd's Tale|Hallgerd's Tale]] near [[SR:Falkreath Stormcloak Camp|Falkreath Stormcloak Camp]](the camp is disabled initially), and clear all junks of the Khajiit caravan, or they will disappear forever after the stage 30 of [[SR:Before the Storm|Before the Storm]] and Falkreath Stormcloak Camp will be enabled at this point.
*#Most players enter [[SR:Riften|Riften]] in an imperfect way, so they never see [[SR:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]]'s dialog option "So the guard at the North Gate was your man?", this's caused by triggering the conversation between [[SR:Mjoll the Lioness|Mjoll the Lioness]] and [[SR:Aerin|Aerin]] as long as you enter Riften through north gate, this can be circumvented by entering Riften through [[SR:Black-Briar Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]], and talk to Brynjolf before triggering Mjoll the Lioness's conversation.
*#Beware do not approach [[SR:Frostmere Crypt|Frostmere Crypt]] before level 27, do not approach either one of [[SR:Folgunthur|Folgunthur]], [[SR:Saarthal|Saarthal]], [[SR:Geirmund's Hall|Geirmund's Hall]], [[SR:Reachwater Rock|Reachwater Rock]] before level 36, or you won't get the highest version rewards of relating quests forever.
*#Beware some corpses can disappear if you happen to let them spawn but miss to loot them, they are: [[SR:Wood Cutter|Wood Cutter]] with [[SR:The Woodsman's Friend|The Woodsman's Friend]], [[SR:Bjormund Wind-Strider|Bjormund Wind-Strider]] with [[SR:Dragonbone Mail|Dragonbone Mail]], [[SR:Ilas-Tei|Ilas-Tei]] with [[SR:Ilas-Tei's Ring|Ilas-Tei's Ring]] and [[SR:Rundi|Rundi]] with [[SR:Rundi's Dagger|Rundi's Dagger]].
*#Beware [[SR:Kjenstag Ruins|Kjenstag Ruins]]'s ghost, he only shows up one time, and can be missed very easily forever, if you set to make [[SR:Myrwatch|Myrwatch]] the main home, it's very possible that you trigger the nearby Kjenstag Ruins's ghost accidently, it's recommended to kill the ghost before he disappears to loot his ancient equipments.
*#Get a bottle of [[SR:Food#Black-Briar Mead|Black-Briar Mead]] to finish [[SR:Siddgeir|Siddgeir]]'s [[SR:Rare Gifts|Rare Gifts]] before receiving the [[SR:Letter from Jarl (Jarl's Name) of (Jarl's City)|Hearthfire leter]] at level 9, or you won't get this quest forever.
*#Clear [[SR:Hall of the Vigilant|Hall of the Vigilant]] before level 10, kill everyone with no mercy, or it will be unavailable forever after starting DLC1VQ01MiscObjective of [[SR:Dawnguard (quest)|Dawnguard]], beware the Hall is near the [[SR:Frostmere Crypt|Frostmere Crypt]], do not approach Frostmere Crypt accidently before level 27.
*#Do not drop any junk on ground, instead putting them in a respawning container or selling to merchants, or they will leave on ground forever, thus make the save file slightly larger.
*#[[SR:Grimsever's Return|Grimsever's Return]] and [[SR:The Wolf Queen Awakened|The Wolf Queen Awakened]] are special, they aren't available after if you only trigger the pre scene, you also have to level up to make the next quest available.
*#It's recommend to put off the main quest at [[SR:Elder Knowledge|Elder Knowledge]], just clear [[SR:Alftand|Alftand]] but do not take [[SR:Elder Scroll|Elder Scroll]], or [[SR:Alduin's Bane|Alduin's Bane]] will start automatically. The benefit is keeping Blades' disposition at 3 for a properly long time, you can finish [[SR:Esbern|Esbern]] and [[SR:Delphine|Delphine]]'s Blade quests, get 3 permanent Blade followers, and get the permanent effect [[SR:Powers|Dragon Infusion]] by drinking [[SR:Esbern's Potion|Esbern's Potion]]. The recommended three Blades are [[SR:Stenvar|Stenvar]], [[SR:Erik the Slayer|Erik the Slayer]] and [[SR:Marcurio|Marcurio]], because they won't claim the hiring money anymore, and they all three have some heavy armor skill to match the Blade outfit. It's not recommended to experience personally [[SR:Alduin|Alduin]] reviving the three dragons [[SR:Dragon#Named Dragons|Vuljotnaak]], [[SR:Dragon#Named Dragons|Nahagliiv]] and [[SR:Dragon#Named Dragons|Viinturuth]], or they will be invisible for a very long time until Alduin's Bane is finished, which conflicts the off-putting strategy. Instead wait until the three dragons have already been resurrected by Alduin, then kill them, although their corpses still remain permanent, they remain visible, not invisible.

==Dungeons and Loot==
===[[Skyrim:Dungeons|Dungeons]]===
[[File:SR-icon-cont-chest 04.png|thumb|The standard boss chest]]
*Watch for [[Skyrim:traps|traps]]. Once you learn to recognize and avoid them, you will be able to lure enemies into them.
*Most dungeons end with a boss enemy, normally the most powerful creature you will find therein. They will often be guarding a boss chest containing the dungeon's best loot, and there will normally be a shortcut back to the dungeon entrance nearby, or a back door to exit.
*Loot can be found in [[Skyrim:Containers#Urn|urns]] and [[Skyrim:Containers#Chest|chests]] (especially the boss chest), behind locked doors, and on bodies or in ash piles. Most cupboards and other furniture contain useless clutter. Likewise, barrels and sacks often contain only food, but may hold valuable [[Skyrim:Ingredients|alchemical ingredients]] instead.
*Many dungeons have leveled enemies, so it is advisable to bring potions and such when you venture into them because some enemies are extremely strong and can kill you easily.
*The strength of most types of enemies is determined by your level when you meet them. If you enter a dungeon at a low level and come back to that dungeon at a higher level, the enemies there will be as strong as when you met them the first time.
*Most dungeons also have a minimum and a maximum level. If your level is lower than the minimum level, the minimum level will be used instead to calculate the enemies' levels. The same applies for a dungeon's maximum level.

===Loot===
*Most [[Skyrim:Containers|containers]] in ''Skyrim'' respawn so be careful where you stash your loot.
*When you're holding more weight than your [[Skyrim:Carry Weight|carrying capacity]], you will be unable to run and can only fast travel by horse. You can still jump, however, and use the [[Skyrim:Whirlwind Sprint|Whirlwind Sprint]] shout. Also, drawing your bow will allow you to walk at a slightly faster pace, and using a weapon power attack will propel you forward a short distance.
*It's a good idea to cache your valuable loot near an escape route. When you're ready to leave, slowly carry it all to your horse and fast travel to a town. Remember that some towns (like [[Skyrim:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]] and [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]) do not have gates or transition areas, meaning you can ride your horse straight to a merchant's doorstep without having to crawl at a snail's pace through the city.
*Sometimes items aren't useful until much later in the game. Hang on to gems and dragon bones.
*Prioritize keeping useful items over valuable vendor trash. Sometimes it's not worth the weight.
*In general, gems, jewelry, arrows, scrolls, potions, and books are better to bring to a merchant than heavier items; they weigh little to nothing. A good tip for getting the most money while trying not to go over carrying capacity is only take items if they have a minimum 10:1 value-to-weight ratio.
*Merchants have limited cash available on-hand. You can still sell them items when they have run out of gold, you'll be giving them your stuff for free, though you will still gain [[Skyrim:Speech|Speech]] experience.
*Over time (roughly two in-game business days), merchant inventories and available gold reset. You can [[Skyrim:Sleeping|wait]] for those two days before speaking with the merchant again in order to be able to sell more items to them.
*Quest items and keys cannot merely be 'dropped' from your inventory. Don't worry: The keys can be stored in chests and have no weight (plus their own inventory section, so they don't clutter your inventory), and the quest items will be removed in time...usually (There are a few bugged quest items).
*Pickpocketing NPCs can be profitable and is an easy way to find money in towns; however, you can be caught and arrested if you fail. Note that merchants will not normally buy stolen goods. Thieves Guild members can make use of [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)#Fences|fences]] to sell stolen items.
*In order to get the most bang for your buck, sell your loot after giving a coin to a [[:Category:Skyrim-Beggar|beggar]]. Beggars are much more useful in ''Skyrim'' than in previous ''Elder Scrolls'' games, as giving them a coin grants the player the "Gift of Charity," a blessing that lasts for one real-time hour, and gives you a 10-point boost to your Speech skill, providing a small but noticeable improvement in selling prices.

===Equipment===
*Improve your weapons and armor at [[Skyrim:Grindstone|grindstones]] and [[Skyrim:Workbench|workbenches]] and enchant them at [[Skyrim:Arcane Enchanters|arcane enchanters]].
*You may only improve enchanted weapons and armor after you attain the [[Skyrim:Smithing|Smithing]] perk [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane Blacksmith]], although you can enchant already-improved weapons and armor without it.
*Improving weapons or armor will replace the previous improvement.
*[[Skyrim:Unique Items|Unique Items]] and powerful [[Skyrim:Artifacts|Artifacts]] can be found throughout the world, although player enhanced items may become more powerful eventually.
*Save up on [[Skyrim:Lockpicking#Skill Usage|lockpicks]], as lockpicking can be difficult. Note that some locks cannot be picked and will need a key.
*[[Skyrim:Smithing|Smithing]] allows you to create weapons and armor that would not normally be available at lower levels.

===[[Skyrim:Books|Books]]===
It is worth at least opening any books you come across:
*Reading [[Skyrim:Skill Books|skill books]] gives you skill points.
*Reading [[:Category:Skyrim-Quest Books|quest books]] initiates quests.
*Reading [[Skyrim:Spell Tomes|spell tomes]] teaches you new spells.
*Some books, including [[Skyrim:Treasure Maps|treasure maps]] and journals, contain clues to help you find things or do things better.

*In general, the value of a book is a good clue as to how important it is to read. If its value seems to be higher than the (generally low) amount normal for books it is probably worth a read. You only need to open a book to gain an experience point, start a quest, or learn a spell—you don't need to read the whole thing nor take the book (except in the case of spell books, which you can only read from your inventory). All skill books have a value of at least 50 gold.

*The corollary of this is that you might want to avoid reading books that give points to skills you never plan to use. Increasing skills increases your overall level, which makes foes tougher. Normally, your level increases by you using the skills that help you survive (weapons skills for a warrior, for example), but reading a book on Destruction magic or Lockpicking does nothing to help that warrior survive.

* There is no straight-forward way to take a book to "read it later"—you cannot save books (and their skill points) for later in the game, when your skills are high, and bonus points would be worth comparatively more.
** You can instruct a follower to pick up books for you, so you can postpone reading them.
** If you buy a skill book from a merchant or remove it from a container (like a chest) you can also avoid reading it until later. Most skill books cannot be obtained in this fashion, however.
** A few quests give skill books as a reward for completing them. These books can also be read when you choose.

==Character Builds==
There are countless ways to play ''Skyrim'', each with its own pros and cons. The play-styles listed below are simply a starting point if you aren't sure how you want to play. Be sure to check out the [[Skyrim:Skills|Skills]] page for additional information. Keep in mind that some perks, even though in different trees, may benefit each other, so be sure to read each perk and plan ahead what combinations of perks may benefit you the most according to the play-style you choose.

====Warrior====
A warrior will generally use [[Skyrim:Light Armor|Light Armor]] or [[Skyrim:Heavy Armor|Heavy Armor]] and any combination of shields, [[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]] and [[Skyrim:Two-handed|Two-handed]] weapons, as well as [[Skyrim:Archery|Bows and Arrows]]. Of course, they are not prevented from making occasional use of stealth and magic as well.
*Heavy armor weighs more than light armor or robes but it also offers the most protection, although it can slow down your character as well. Light armor allows you to sacrifice protection for speed. It should also be noted, however, that both armors are capable of eventually reaching the 80% damage reduction cap (567 armor) with the proper perks and use of the [[Skyrim:Smithing|Smithing]] skill.
*One-handed weapons swing faster than two-handed weapons but deal less damage. One-handed weapons can be dual wielded (one in each hand) or used with a shield or spell in the other hand.
*Weapon speed is listed from fastest to slowest: dagger, sword, war axe, mace, greatsword, battle axe, warhammer. The last three are two-handed weapons. Bows require two hands, but operate on a separate skill tree.
*Potions will generally be very useful to you, certain kinds more so than others. Health and stamina potions will be more useful than magicka potions since you will be hacking and slashing more often than throwing fireballs.
*Shields are useful for [[Skyrim:Block|blocking]] and absorb large amounts of damage. Blocking can likewise be done with a two-handed weapon or a single one-handed weapon (without a shield equipped, and not dual wielding) although it absorbs less damage.
**Attacking while blocking will allow you to bash the enemy, which is more effective with a shield than a weapon.
*The Smithing skill allows you to greatly increase both the damage of weapons and protection of armor.
*Make sure to [[Skyrim:Take Up Arms|join the Companions]] in Whiterun early, as they provide tasks and services that are preferable for physical fighters. They also provide at least expert-level training in all combat skills, and master in some (Two-handed, Heavy Armor).

====Mage====
Mage players will generally use [[Skyrim:Magic|magic]] to get through the day-to-day struggles of ''Skyrim''. Each school of magic is useful for different things. Staves and other one-handed weapons are sometimes used by mages, and they generally wear light (or heavy in the case of prospective battlemages) armor, if any.
*A mage's equipment will generally differ from other play styles. You may wish to wear a variation of mage's robes that increase magicka and magicka regeneration rather than armor; wearing armor will not penalize your spellcasting other than that you will miss out on the use of the pre-enchanted robes and circlets. Even if you are playing as a purely spell-based character, you may wish to carry a melee weapon in case you run out of offensive spell capabilities.
*Carry lots of potions that restore health and magicka. Stamina potions are less important, since you will be casting spells rather than swinging war hammers.
*[[Skyrim:Staves|Staves]] are useful weapons but need to be recharged often using [[Skyrim:Soul Gems|soul gems]]. Soul gems can be found in the world or purchased from merchants. Unfilled soul gems will need to be filled with a living creature's soul using the [[Skyrim:Soul Trap (spell)|Soul Trap]] spell before they can be used for recharging.
*If you're running low on soul gems, venture into [[Skyrim:Dwarven Ruins|Dwarven ruins]]. The machines that inhabit these places often carry them.
*Scrolls are like prerecorded spells. They require no magicka to cast, but are used up in the process. Carrying large quantities can eventually add up to a lot of weight, though.
*Joining the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] will prove beneficial to a mage character: a large number of spell tomes and trainers for all the schools of magic can be found there, as well as useful equipment.
*The Alteration tree gives perks that both resist and absorb enemy spells, which are great help against enemy mages.
*The schools of magic in ''Skyrim'' are [[Skyrim:Destruction|Destruction]], [[Skyrim:Illusion|Illusion]], [[Skyrim:Alteration|Alteration]], [[Skyrim:Conjuration|Conjuration]], and [[Skyrim:Restoration|Restoration]].

==== Thief/Assassin ====
Thief/Assassin characters usually rely on sneak attacks for the bulk of their damage. Bows and one-handed weapons (including dual wielding) are more commonly used, as well as [[Skyrim:Light Armor|Light armor]].
*The quickest way to level your [[Skyrim:Sneak|Sneak]] skill is to successfully attack while sneaking. An easy way to practice this is to find sleeping [[Skyrim:Draugr|draugr]] and sneak-attack them before they detect you.
*Light armor is preferred, since it creates less noise than [[Skyrim:Heavy Armor|heavy armor]], improving your odds of moving undetected. More complicated builds can allow heavy armor use; however, that's more of a long-term investment which requires planning for the skill to be worthwhile.
*[[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]] perks have synergy for stealthy players.
*Some interactions and encounters will have an NPC turn hostile in front of you (or you might get taken by surprise). Therefore, do not rely entirely on stealth and sneak attacks; some practice in either weaponry or magic is also recommended.
*The [[Skyrim:Illusion|Illusion]] school of magic offers spells that allow a thief to move more quietly or become invisible. It also offers the Silent Casting perk which makes all spells and [[Skyrim:Dragon Shouts|Shouts]] silent, allowing use of these abilities without attracting enemy attention.
*When you level up, stamina increases can be sacrificed to give yourself more health (or magic, if you are using Illusion spells), as some Thieves Guild equipment or enchantments will increase your carry weight outright, and you will most likely be trying to avoid lengthy, stamina-consuming battles. You can also select the Steed [[Skyrim:Standing Stone|Standing Stone]], which gives you 100 extra carry weight, as well as the Extra Pockets perk in the [[Skyrim:Pickpocket|Pickpocketing]] tree, which gives another 100.
*A good idea for all Thieves and Assassins to employ when taking out a difficult opponent is to carry a dagger and a [[Skyrim:Paralyze (effect)|Paralysis]] effect (via [[Skyrim:Potions|Poisons]], [[Skyrim:Useful Potions|Created Poisons]], [[Skyrim:Enchanting Effects|Weapon Enchantments]], etc.) to stun the enemy, and follow up with swift attacks with the dagger to dispatch the opponent in question within the duration of the effect. Dual wielding the paralysis dagger with another one with higher damage will save on charges.
*The [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood's]] armor is more useful for sneaking and combat than that of the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]]. The [[Skyrim:Shrouded Gloves|Shrouded Gloves]] are particularly useful, as they double all One-handed sneak attack damage in addition to the damage added by perks.
*A dagger is the only weapon that will not make any noise when swung, allowing your position to not be given away by weapon noise.

==Difficulty Settings==
There are 6 difficulty settings, accessible from the [[Skyrim:Controls#Journal|Journal]] (Journal > System > Settings > Gameplay): Novice (very easy), Apprentice (easy), Adept (normal), Expert (hard), Master (very hard), and Legendary (pro).
* Easier settings cause your attacks to be more powerful and enemies' attacks to be less powerful. The only other effect it has on the game is on the health costs of the [[Skyrim:Equilibrium|Equilibrium]] spell.
* You can change the difficulty level at any time, even in the midst of combat. If you are having difficulty with a certain enemy or group of enemies, you can adjust to an easier setting, kill the enemy, and then return to your previous difficulty with no penalty.
* Reducing the difficulty level can prove especially useful if you have leveled-up by increasing a large proportion of non-combat skills. This can result in facing more difficult enemies while you have insufficient offensive or defensive skills. After working to strengthen your combat-related skills (offensive, defensive, or both) you can try returning to a more difficult level if you like.

===Novice===
The easiest setting. However, playing at this level can still present challenges to inexperienced players. You can still die pretty easily in battles with some of the harder enemies, such as dragons and giants

===Apprentice===
Somewhat harder than Novice. A good setting for many first-time players, and certainly challenging against some of the stronger enemies you will encounter.

===Adept===
The default difficulty for ''Skyrim''. Most players will need to understand and employ some of the basic advice in this guide to survive ''Skyrim'' on this setting.

===Expert===
A difficult level. It is suitable for experienced players looking for more challenge in the game.

===Master===
This was the most difficult setting upon release. Few players can survive long at this level unless familiar with advanced strategies in combat, skill and leveling management, and taking time to acquire and maintain useful resources and powerful equipment. There is little room for error or experimentation for most players at this level.

===Legendary===
With version 1.9 of the Official Skyrim Patch, Legendary difficulty is now available as an even greater level of difficulty than Master. At this level, it is advised you develop methods for evasively dispatching enemies prior to engaging them in battle, as unprepared adventurers will be hard-pressed to survive an encounter with even the most innocuous foes, and will suffer a quick, humiliating death against powerful creatures like dragons or giants.

===Difficulty Level Summary Table===
{|class = "wikitable"
! Difficulty !! Player Damage Dealt !! Player Damage Taken
|-
| Novice || x2 || x0.5
|-
| Apprentice || x1.5 || x0.75
|-
| Adept || x1 || x1
|-
| Expert || x0.75 || x1.5
|-
| Master || x0.5 || x2
|-
| Legendary ||x0.25 ||x3
|}

Skyrim:Spells

2026-05-17T10:59:28Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3560402 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{Trail|Magic}}
{{TOCleft}}Dozens of '''spells''' are available for magically-inclined characters in Skyrim. Most spells (other than starting spells) are learned by reading '''Spell Tomes'''.{{NewLeft}}

==[[SR:Alteration Spells|Alteration Spells]]==
{{SR:Alteration Spells}}

==[[SR:Conjuration Spells|Conjuration Spells]]==
{{SR:Conjuration Spells}}

==[[SR:Destruction Spells|Destruction Spells]]==
{{SR:Destruction Spells}}

==[[SR:Illusion Spells|Illusion Spells]]==
{{SR:Illusion Spells}}

==[[SR:Restoration Spells|Restoration Spells]]==
{{SR:Restoration Spells}}

==Master Level Spells==
Master-level spells are different from lower-level spells:
* They always require both hands.
* They take 3 seconds to complete.
* You cannot move while casting.
* They may be interrupted by stagger attack.

Other than the Alteration spell Dragonhide and the Restoration spell Guardian Circle, master-level spells do not benefit from dual casting perks.

When in combat, master-level spells are tricky to use because of the time required to cast them. Furthermore while casting them, you are completely vulnerable and can be interrupted by any sort of attack. Some ways around this weakness are:
* staggering your enemy first with a dual-cast spell. [[SR:Ice Storm|Ice Storm]] can stagger multiple enemies at once.
* combining them with shouts such as [[SR:Become Ethereal|Become Ethereal]] or [[SR:Ice Form|Ice Form]].
* combining them with illusion and alteration crowd control effects, such as [[SR:Pacify (spell)|Pacify]].
* using followers or conjurations as distractions.
* combining them with high level flesh spells.
* casting them from sneak.

{{SR:Spell List Notes}}

==Spell Tome Locations==
Most spell tomes can be purchased from [[SR:merchants|merchants]]. Novice- and apprentice-level spell tomes can be purchased from the court wizards found in each of Skyrim's cities. Higher-level spell tomes are more difficult to find: Each court wizard only stocks the adept-level spells for one school ([[SR:Farengar Secret-Fire|Farengar]], [[SR:Madena|Madena]] and [[SR:Wuunferth the Unliving|Wuunferth]] for [[SR:Destruction|Destruction]], [[SR:Falion|Falion]] and [[SR: Calcelmo|Calcelmo]] for [[SR:Conjuration|Conjuration]], [[SR:Sybille Stentor|Sybille Stentor]] for [[SR:Illusion|Illusion]] and [[SR:Wylandriah|Wylandriah]] for [[SR:Alteration|Alteration]]) and the expert-level spells can only be purchased from the specialist mages in the [[SR:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]]. Also, adept- and expert-level spell tomes only appear in the mage's merchandise when your magic skill is high enough (40 for Adept and 65 for Expert spells). After reaching the required skill level, you must wait for the mage's merchandise to be reset (typically two days in-game), or, save, then attack the merchant and reload, before the new tomes will appear. Master-level spell tomes can only be acquired once that school's ritual spell [[SR:College of Winterhold (faction)#Quests|quest]] has been completed.

Nearly all spell tomes can also be found randomly as loot. The only spell tomes that can ''not'' be found randomly are quest-specific spell tomes (those that can not be purchased), tomes added by [[SR:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]] or [[SR:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]], and master-level tomes. The appearance of random tomes is dependent upon your character's overall level (but is not related to your skill in the magic school, unlike tome purchases):
* Novice: level 1+
* Apprentice: level 11+
* Adept: level 23+
* Expert: level 35+

Those random loot tomes may be found in boss chests and safes. With the [[SR:Merchant (perk)|Merchant perk]] unlocked, there is a small chance that tomes are sold by [[SR:Blacksmith|blacksmiths]]. With the [[SR:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]] add-on installed, tomes can also be purchased from [[SR:Morven Stroud|Morven Stroud]].

Additionally several chests may contain low level tomes dependent on character level. Those may be carried by several spellcasters too:
* Novice: level 1+
* Apprentice: level 10+

==Bugs==
{{Bug|The loot list for expert level spell tomes in dungeons incorrectly uses a global variable setting that's intended to be used on vendor inventories.|USSEP|4.2.5}}

Skyrim:Powers

2026-05-17T10:59:23Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3560403 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{Trail|Magic}}
This page lists all of the '''Powers''' in [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]] and the [[Skyrim:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] expansion, both '''[[#Greater Powers|Greater]]''' and '''[[#Lesser Powers|Lesser]]''', as well as all of the [[#Abilities|abilities]] available to the player. Powers and abilities are special magical capabilities that are innate to your character. Some are granted by your [[Skyrim:Races|race]]; others are received by activating [[Skyrim:Standing Stones|Standing Stones]], reading [[Skyrim:Black Book (book)|Black Books]]{{DB}}, becoming a [[Skyrim:vampirism|vampire]] or [[Skyrim:werewolves|werewolf]], equipping certain items or completing certain quests. Greater Powers have no [[Skyrim:Magicka|Magicka]] cost, but can only be used once per day. Lesser Powers may or may not use Magicka, but they can be used as often as you like. Abilities are magical effects that are permanently active.

[[Skyrim:Dragon Shouts|Dragon Shouts]] are listed on a separate page.

==Greater Powers==
Your available Greater and [[#Lesser Powers|Lesser]] Powers are listed in the magic menu under "Powers". To use a power you must first equip it, which it assigns it to the [[Skyrim:Controls#Power|Dragon Shout/Power]] button. Each Greater Power can only be used once per game day.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Name
![[Skyrim:Form ID|Spell ID]]
!Description
!Notes
|-
|[[Skyrim:Adrenaline Rush|Adrenaline Rush]]
|{{ID|000e40ce}}
|''[[Skyrim:Regenerate Stamina|Stamina regenerates]] 10x faster for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Redguard|Redguard]] racial power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Ancestor's Wrath|Ancestor's Wrath]]
|{{ID|000e40d4}}
|''For 60 seconds, opponents that get too close take 8 points per second of [[Skyrim:Fire Damage|fire damage]].''
|[[Skyrim:Dark Elf|Dunmer]] racial power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Battle Cry|Battle Cry]]
|{{ID|000e40c3}}
|''Targets [[Skyrim:Fear (effect)|flee]] for 30 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Nord|Nord]] racial power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Beast Form|Beast Form]]
|{{ID|00092c48}}
|''Take on the form of a werewolf.''
|Transforms [[Skyrim:Werewolves|Werewolves]] into their beast form. Normally, it could be used once per day. But with the cleansed [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]] equipped, one can use it repeatedly.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Berserker Rage|Berserker Rage]]
|{{ID|000aa026}}
|''You take half damage and do double damage for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Orc|Orc]] racial power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Command Animal|Command Animal]]
|{{ID|000e40cf}}
|''Make an animal an ally for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Wood Elf|Bosmer]] racial power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Dragonskin|Dragonskin]]
|{{ID|000aa022}}
|''[[Skyrim:Spell Absorption|Absorb]] 50% of the magicka from hostile spells for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Breton|Breton]] racial power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Dread Cloak|Dread Cloak]]
|{{ID|000ed0a9}}
|''For 60 seconds, opponents in melee range take 8 points [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|frost damage]] and [[Skyrim:Damage Stamina|Stamina damage]] per second.''
|Not available in-game.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Embrace of Shadows|Embrace of Shadows]]
|{{ID|00088821}}
|''You can become [[Skyrim:Invisibility (effect)|invisible]]. Improved [[Skyrim:Night Eye (effect)|night vision]] for 180 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Vampirism|Vampire]] power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Highborn|Highborn]]
|{{ID|000e40c8}}
|''[[Skyrim:Regenerate Magicka|Regenerate magicka]] faster for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:High Elf|Altmer]] racial power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Histskin|Histskin]]
|{{ID|000e40d5}}
|''Invoke the power of the [[Lore:Hist|Hist]] to [[Skyrim:Regenerate Health|recover health]] ten times faster for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Argonian|Argonian]] racial power.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Mora's Agony|{{Anchor|Mora's Agony}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx031842}}
| ''Summons a field of writhing tentacles that lasts 30 seconds and poisons foes who enter it.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Hidden Twilight (book)|The Hidden Twilight]]''.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Mora's Boon|{{Anchor|Mora's Boon}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01e7f7}}
| ''Fully restores your [[Skyrim:Health|Health]], [[Skyrim:Magicka|Magicka]] and [[Skyrim:Stamina|Stamina]].''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Hidden Twilight (book)|The Hidden Twilight]]''. The description is not accurate, though. This power restores 1000 points to each of your attributes, which may not "fully restore" them for high-level characters.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Mora's Grasp|{{Anchor|Mora's Grasp}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx031844}}
| ''Targets are frozen between Oblivion and Tamriel for 30 seconds, and immune to all damage.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Hidden Twilight (book)|The Hidden Twilight]]''.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Nightingale Strife|{{Anchor|Nightingale Strife}}]]
|{{ID|000f1987}}
|''Instantly [[Skyrim:Absorb Health|absorb]] 100 points of Health from the target.''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:Darkness Returns|Darkness Returns]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:Nightingale Subterfuge|{{Anchor|Nightingale Subterfuge}}]]
|{{ID|000f1986}}
|''People and creatures in the spell's area of effect will [[Skyrim:Frenzy (effect)|attack anyone nearby]] for 30 seconds.''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:Darkness Returns|Darkness Returns]].
|-
| [[Skyrim:Omen of Warding|{{Anchor|Omen of Warding}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01e803}}
| ''You take no falling damage for 15 seconds.''
| Only available via [[Skyrim:Console|Console]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:Polymorph Skeever|{{Anchor|Polymorph Skeever}}]]
|{{ID|0006e205}}
|''Take on the form of a [[Skyrim:skeever|skeever]].''
|Not available in-game.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Secret of Arcana|{{Anchor|Secret of Arcana}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01e7fd}}
| ''Spells cost no magicka for 30 seconds.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Filament and Filigree (book)|Filament and Filigree]]''. While under the effect of this power, if you begin casting a spell that consumes magicka over time (such as Telekinesis), that spell will remain free of magicka cost for as long as it is active.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Secret of Protection|{{Anchor|Secret of Protection}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01e800}}
| ''You take half damage for 30 seconds.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Filament and Filigree (book)|Filament and Filigree]]''.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Secret of Strength|{{Anchor|Secret of Strength}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01e7fa}}
| ''[[Skyrim:Power Attack|Power attacks]] cost no stamina for 30 seconds.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Filament and Filigree (book)|Filament and Filigree]]''.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Shadowcloak of Nocturnal|{{Anchor|Shadowcloak of Nocturnal}}]]
|{{ID|00017122}}
|''For 120 seconds you automatically become [[Skyrim:Invisibility (effect)|invisible]] while [[Skyrim:Sneak|sneaking]].''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:Darkness Returns|Darkness Returns]].
{{Bug|Within the duration, any actions done while sneaking will turn you visible but allow you to toggle back into sneak to turn invisible again. After this duration, the player may enter invisibility/visibility at will but the effect will stop when sneaking and interacting with something.|USSEP|4.1.5|trackerid=18821}}
|-
| [[Skyrim:Stop Rune|{{Anchor|Stop Rune}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01ed9a}}
| ''Cast on a nearby surface, it explodes {{sic|for|description=extra word}} and freezes the target in place for 10 seconds.''
| Only available via Console.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Summon Karstaag|{{Anchor|Summon Karstaag}}]]{{DB}}
| {{IDs|xx024812|This version can be cast 3 times|xx029709|This version can be cast 2 times|xx02970a|This version can be cast 1 time|sep= |hover=1}}
| ''Summons [[Skyrim:Karstaag|Karstaag]] to fight for you for 120 seconds. You may only use this ability 3 times, and only while outdoors.''
| Reward from the quest [[Skyrim:Summoning Karstaag|Summoning Karstaag]]. Unlike most Greater Powers, you may use this ability three times while outdoors and then never again.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Summon Spectral Assassin|{{Anchor|Summon Spectral Assassin}}]]
|{{ID|000618c6}}
|''[[Skyrim:Summon|Summons]] [[Skyrim:Spectral Assassin|the ghost]] of the legendary assassin [[Lore:Lucien Lachance|Lucien Lachance]] to fight by your side, until he's defeated.''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:Bound Until Death|Bound Until Death]]. Is cast like a spell, as opposed to the power/shout button.
|-
|[[Skyrim:The Ritual Stone|{{Anchor|The Ritual Stone}}]]
|{{ID|000e7329}}
|''Temporarily [[Skyrim:Reanimate|reanimates]] corpses in the immediate area.''
|Activate the Ritual [[Skyrim:Standing Stone|Standing Stone]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:The Serpent Stone|The Serpent Stone]]
|{{ID|000e5f61}}
|''Target is [[Skyrim:Paralyze (effect)|paralyzed]] for 5 seconds and takes 25 points of damage over 5 seconds.''
|Activate the Serpent [[Skyrim:Standing Stone|Standing Stone]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:The Shadow Stone|The Shadow Stone]]
|{{ID|000e732a}}
|''[[Skyrim:Invisibility (effect)|Invisibility]] for 60 seconds. Activating an object or attacking will break the spell.''
|Activate the Shadow [[Skyrim:Standing Stone|Standing Stone]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:The Tower Stone|The Tower Stone]]
|{{ID|000e7328}}
|''Unlock any expert or lower lock once per day.''
|Activate the Tower [[Skyrim:Standing Stone|Standing Stone]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:Vampire's Seduction|Vampire's Seduction]]
|{{ID|000c4de2}}
|''Creatures and people up to level 8 [[Skyrim:Pacify (effect)|won't fight]] for 30 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Vampirism|Vampire]] power.
|-
|rowspan=4|{{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Vampire's Servant|Vampire's Servant]]}}
|{{ID|000ed0a4}}
|''[[Skyrim:Reanimate|Reanimate]] a weak dead body to fight for you for 60 seconds.''
|Reanimate, 6 pts for 60 seconds. [[Skyrim:Reanimate|Reanimate Secondary Effects]] for 60 seconds.
|-
|{{ID|000ed0a5}}
|''Reanimate a more powerful dead body to fight for you for 60 seconds.''
|Reanimate, 13 pts for 60 seconds, Will not turn the raised body to ashes when it's killed.
|-
|{{ID|000ed0a6}}
|''Reanimate a powerful dead body to fight for you for 60 seconds.''
|Reanimate, 21 pts for 60 seconds. Will not turn the raised body to ashes when it's killed.
|-
|{{ID|000ed0a7}}
|''Reanimate a very powerful dead body to fight for you for 60 seconds.''
|Reanimate, 30 pts for 60 seconds. [[Skyrim:Regenerate Health|Fortified Healing]], 1 pt for 60 seconds. Will not turn the raised body to ashes when it's killed.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Voice of the Emperor|Voice of the Emperor]]
|{{ID|000e40ca}}
|''[[Skyrim:Pacify (effect)|Calms]] nearby people for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Imperial|Imperial]] racial power.
|}

===Single-use Greater Powers{{DB}}===
Each power is acquired by activating a cleansed stone which grants a single use. Activate the stone again to reacquire the power.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Name
![[Skyrim:Form ID|Spell ID]]
!Description
!Notes
|-
| [[Skyrim:Bones of the Earth|{{Anchor|Bones of the Earth}}]]
| {{ID|xx01df9f}}
| ''Caster ignores 80% of all physical damage for 30 seconds. Single use, then must be reacquired at the Earth Stone.''
| Acquired at the [[Skyrim:Earth Stone|Earth Stone]].
|-
| [[Skyrim:Conjure Werebear|{{Anchor|Conjure Werebear}}]]
| {{ID|xx01dfa4}} {{ID|xx0322b2}}
| ''Summons a [[Skyrim:Werebear|Werebear]] for 60 seconds wherever the caster is pointing. Single use, then must be reacquired at the Beast Stone.''
| Acquired at the [[Skyrim:Beast Stone|Beast Stone]]. The werebear will be active for 120 seconds with the appropriate Conjuration perk.
|-
| [[Skyrim:North Wind|{{Anchor|North Wind}}]]
| {{ID|xx01dfa5}}
| ''Targets take 20 points of frost damage for 10 seconds, plus Stamina damage. Single use, then must be reacquired at the Wind Stone.''
| Acquired at the [[Skyrim:Wind Stone|Wind Stone]].
|-
| [[Skyrim:Root of Power|{{Anchor|Root of Power}}]]
| {{ID|xx01dfab}}
| ''All spells cost 75% less to cast for 60 seconds. Single use, then must be reacquired at the Tree Stone.''
| Acquired at the [[Skyrim:Tree Stone|Tree Stone]].
|-
| [[Skyrim:Sun Flare|{{Anchor|Sun Flare}}]]
| {{ID|xx01df9c}}
| ''A 100 point fiery explosion centered on the caster. Does more damage to closer targets. Single use, then must be reacquired at the Sun Stone.''
| Acquired at the [[Skyrim:Sun Stone|Sun Stone]].
|-
| [[Skyrim:Waters of Life|{{Anchor|Waters of Life}}]]
| {{ID|xx01dfa7}}
| ''Heals everyone close to the caster 200 points. Single use, then must be reacquired at the Water Stone.''
| Acquired at the [[Skyrim:Water Stone|Water Stone]].
|}

==Lesser Powers==
Your available Lesser and [[#Greater Powers|Greater]] Powers are listed in the magic menu under "Powers". To use a power you must first equip it, which it assigns it to the [[Skyrim:Controls#Power|Dragon Shout/Power]] button. Unlike Greater Powers, each Lesser Power can be used an unlimited number of times per day.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Name
![[Skyrim:Form ID|Spell ID]]
!Description
!Notes
|-
| [[SR:amiibo|{{Anchor|amiibo}}]]{{Nintendo Switch}}
| {{ID|xx00081C}}
| ''Use an amiibo to summon something useful. You never know what's going to come through when you use it.''
| This power is only available in the [[Skyrim:Switch|Nintendo Switch]] version of the game. The lowercase name is intentionally stylized. A glowing circle will appear when you cast it at the ground, enabling in-game compatibility with Nintendo's "amiibo" figures. See the section on [[SR:amiibo|amiibo compatibility]] for more information.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Bardic Knowledge|{{Anchor|Bardic Knowledge}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx029f12}}
| ''Summons a spectral drum that plays for 300 seconds, improving Stamina Regen for you and nearby allies.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Untold Legends (book)|Untold Legends]]''.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Black Market|{{Anchor|Black Market}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01eec6}}
| ''Summons a [[Skyrim:Dremora Merchant|Dremora merchant]] for 15 seconds.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Untold Legends (book)|Untold Legends]]''. Has 2000 gold, restocks every two days. Affected by the Fence speech perk.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Bound Quiver|{{Anchor|Bound Quiver}}]]{{CC|Arcane Archer Pack}}
| {{ID|xx00080C}}
| ''Creates a [[Skyrim:Bound Arrow|magic quiver]] for 120 seconds.''
| Acquired from the [[Skyrim:Arcane Archer Pack|Arcane Archer Pack]]'s [[Skyrim:Spell Tome: Bound Quiver|Spell Tome: Bound Quiver]]. Has a base cost of 206 magicka to cast, with [[Skyrim:Adept Conjuration|Adept Conjuration]] halving the cost. Grants no experience. With the [[Skyrim:Mystic Binding|Mystic Binding]] perk, quiver changes to [[Skyrim:Arcane Archer Pack Items#Bound Arrow|Mystic Quiver]], for 120 secs.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Breath of Nchuak|{{Anchor|Breath of Nchuak}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx03b00d}}
| ''Draws upon stamina to release a scorching blast of steam that deals 15 points of damage per second.''
| Acquired by wearing the [[Skyrim:Visage of Mzund|Visage of Mzund]].
|-
| [[Skyrim:Frostmoon Instinct|{{Anchor|Frostmoon Instinct}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx035b1b}}
| ''Slows time for 20 seconds.''
| Activated when entering [[Skyrim:Beast Form|beast form]] while wearing the [[Skyrim:Ring of Instinct|Ring of Instinct]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:Howl of the Pack|{{Anchor|Howl of the Pack}}]]
|{{ID|000cf79d}}
|''Summons two spectral [[Skyrim:Pack Member|pack members]] to aid in combat.''
|Acquired by praying to the [[Skyrim:Totem of Brotherhood|Totem of Brotherhood]] during the [[Skyrim:Totems of Hircine|Totems of Hircine]] Quest.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Night Eye (power)|{{Anchor|Night Eye}}]]
|{{ID|000aa01d}}
|''Improved night vision for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Khajiit|Khajiit]] racial power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Werewolves#Night Eye|Night Eye]]
|{{ID|0006b10e}}
|''Improved night vision for 60 seconds.''
|Not available in-game: power is added in werewolf form, but unusable since you can't access your powers menu. Power is equipped on a hand like a spell.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Secret Servant|{{Anchor|Secret Servant}}]]{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01ff21}}
| ''Summons a [[Skyrim:Dremora Butler|Dremora butler]] for 15 seconds to carry your excess items.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Untold Legends (book)|Untold Legends]]''. Can carry up to 148 units in weight.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Telekinesis Arrows|{{Anchor|Telekinesis Arrows}}]]{{CC|Arcane Archer Pack}}
|{{huh}}
|''Releases suspended [[SR:Telekinesis Arrow|Telekinesis Arrows]].
|Found on [[Skyrim:Urag gro-Shub|Urag gro-Shub’s]] desk in the Arcaneum at the [[Skyrim: College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:Vampire's Sight|{{Anchor|Vampire's Sight}}]]
|{{ID|000c4de1}}
|''Improved night vision for 60 seconds.''
|[[Skyrim:Vampirism|Vampire]] power.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Vampire Lord|{{Anchor|Vampire Lord}}]]{{DG}}
|{{ID|xx00283b}}
|''Transform into a Vampire Lord. Use the Revert Form power to change back.''
|[[Skyrim:Vampire Lord|Vampire Lord]] power.
|}

==Abilities==
Abilities are constant-effect characteristics, which are listed in the magic menu under "Active Effects" (along with enchantments, diseases, and other active effects). The abilities are listed in the Active Effects menu according to the name of the underlying [[Skyrim:Magical Effects|magical effect]]. This means that abilities are listed under their name only in cases where the ability has a unique effect that shares the same name as the ability. Cases where the ability is known to be listed under a different name (e.g. Agent of Mara is listed under "Resist Magic") are mentioned in the following table.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Name
![[Skyrim:Form ID|Spell ID]]
!Description
!Notes
|-
| {{Anchor|Additional Werewolf Transformations}}
| {{ID|000f8306}}
| ''Additional Werewolf Transformations''
| Acquired from equipping the cleansed [[Skyrim:Ring of Hircine|Ring of Hircine]]. Lifts the one-time daily limit of the "Beast Form" power, allowing [[Skyrim:Werewolves|werewolves]] to perform additional transformations.
|-
|{{Anchor|Agent of Dibella}}
|{{ID|0010a766}}
|''You do more combat damage to the opposite sex.''
* 10% more melee damage
|Reward from [[Skyrim:The Heart of Dibella|The Heart of Dibella]].
|-
|{{Anchor|Agent of Mara}}
|{{ID|000cc79a}}
|''15% [[Skyrim:Resist Magic|Resist Magic]].''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:The Book of Love|The Book of Love]]. Listed in Active Effects menu under "Resist Magic".
|-
| {{Anchor|Ahzidal's Genius}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx027332}}
| ''Increases your Enchanting skill by 10 points.''
| Acquired from wearing any four relics of [[Skyrim:Ahzidal (creature)|Ahzidal]].
|-
|{{Anchor|Ancient Knowledge}}
|{{ID|0010eb60}}
|''Knowledge gained from the Lexicon gives you a 25% bonus when wearing Dwarven Armor and Blacksmithing increases 15% faster. ''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:Unfathomable Depths|Unfathomable Depths]]. (See [[#Bugs|Bugs]].)
|-
|{{Anchor|Boethiah's Blessing}}
|{{ID|00081183}}
|''You are able to move more quietly, and opponents that get too close take 5 points poison damage per second.''
|Added by wearing the [[Skyrim:Ebony Mail|Ebony Mail]].
|-
|{{Anchor|Champion of the Night}}
|{{ID|000f5b54}}
|''[[Skyrim:Illusion|Illusion]] spells cast by a Vampire are 25% [[Skyrim:Fortify Illusion|more powerful]].''
|[[Skyrim:Vampirism|Vampire]] bonus.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Claws|Claws]]
|{{ID|000aa01e}}
|''Khajiit claws do {{sic|15|12}} points of damage.''
|[[Skyrim:Khajiit|Khajiit]] racial bonus Although the in-game text says that claws do 15 points of damage, the actual effect magnitude is only 12 points; see [[Skyrim:Claws|Claws]] for further information. Added by wearing the [[Skyrim:Ring of The Beast|Ring of The Beast]]{{DG}}.
|-
| {{Anchor|Companion's Insight}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01e7f5}}
| ''Your attacks, shouts, and destruction spells do no damage to your [[Skyrim:Followers|followers]] when in combat.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Winds of Change (book)|The Winds of Change]]''.
|-
| {{Anchor|Detect Ash Source}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01961a}}
| ''When close enough, identifies the source of the ash spawn attacks on [[Skyrim:Tel Mithryn (settlement)|Tel Mithryn]].''
| Acquired from wearing [[Skyrim:Neloth's Ring of Tracking|Neloth's Ring of Tracking]] during the quest [[Skyrim:Old Friends|Old Friends]].
|-
|{{Anchor|Dragon Infusion}}
|{{ID|000f5ffa}}
|''Dragons do 25% less melee damage.''
|Effect from [[Skyrim:Esbern's Potion|Esbern's Potion]].
|-
| {{Anchor|Dragonborn Flame}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx02647d}}
| ''When your [[Skyrim:Fire Breath|Fire Breath]] Shout kills an enemy, a [[Skyrim:Fire Wyrm|fire wyrm]] emerges from their corpse to fight for you for 60 seconds.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Epistolary Acumen (book)|Epistolary Acumen]]''.
|-
| {{Anchor|Dragonborn Force}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx02647b}}
| ''Your [[Skyrim:Unrelenting Force|Unrelenting Force]] shout does more damage and using all three words may disintegrate enemies.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Epistolary Acumen (book)|Epistolary Acumen]]''.
|-
| {{Anchor|Dragonborn Frost}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx02647e}}
| ''Your [[Skyrim:Frost Breath|Frost Breath]] Shout encases foes in ice for 15 seconds.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: Epistolary Acumen (book)|Epistolary Acumen]]''.
|-
|{{Anchor|Eternal Spirit}}
|{{Small|00e827d}}
|''While [[Skyrim:Become Ethereal|Ethereal]], you [[Skyrim:Regenerate Health|recover health]] 25% faster.''
|[[Skyrim:Paarthurnax (dragon)#Meditation|Meditation on the Words of Power]] - choose ''Feim''. Eternal Spirit is only visible on the Active Effects menu when the character is Ethereal.
*Cannot simultaneously have this and the Force Without Effort or The Fire Within abilities.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Father's Love|{{Anchor|Father's Love}}]]{{HF}}
| {{ID|xx002f54}}
| ''Healing spells and potions restore 25% more health for 8 hours.''
| Acquired when sleeping in the same location as your adopted child/children if you are male and not a [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|Werewolf]].
|-
|{{Anchor|The Fire Within}}
|{{Small|00e8282}}
|''[[Skyrim:Fire Breath|Fire Breath]] shout deals 25% more damage.''
|[[Skyrim:Paarthurnax (dragon)#Meditation|Meditation on the Words of Power]] - choose ''Yol''.
*Cannot simultaneously have this and the Eternal Spirit or Force Without Effort abilities.
|-
|{{Anchor|Force Without Effort}}
|{{Small|00e8281}}
|''You stagger 25% less and foes stagger 25% more.''
|[[Skyrim:Paarthurnax (dragon)#Meditation|Meditation on the Words of Power]] - choose ''Fus''.
*Cannot simultaneously have this and the Eternal Spirit or The Fire Within abilities.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Highborn|Highborn]]
|{{ID|00105f16}}
|''High Elves are born with 50 [[Skyrim:Fortify Magicka|extra]] [[Skyrim:magicka|magicka]].''
|[[Skyrim:High Elf|Altmer]] racial bonus
Listed in Active Effects menu under "Fortify Magicka".
|-
|[[Skyrim:Imperial Luck|Imperial Luck]]
|{{ID|000eb7eb}}
|''Anywhere gold coins might be found, Imperials always seem to find a few more.''
|[[Skyrim:Imperial|Imperial]] racial bonus. (See [[#Bugs|Bugs]].)
|-
| [[Skyrim:Lover's Comfort|{{Anchor|Lover's Comfort}}]]
| {{ID|000cda1d}}
| ''All skills improve 15% faster for 8 hours.''
| Acquired when sleeping in a place where your spouse is also present. Not obtained if you have the [[Skyrim:The Lover Stone|Lover's Stone]] active or are a [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|Werewolf]].
|-
| {{Anchor|Lover's Insight}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01e7f3}}
| ''Do 10% more damage and get 10% [[Skyrim:Fortify Barter|better prices]] from people of the opposite sex.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Winds of Change (book)|The Winds of Change]]''.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Breton#Magic Resistance|Magic Resistance]]
|{{ID|000aa01f}}
|''Your Breton blood grants a 25% [[Skyrim:Resist Magic|resistance to magic]].''
|[[Skyrim:Breton|Breton]] racial resistance
Listed in Active Effects menu under "Resist Magic".
|-
| [[Skyrim:Mother's Love|{{Anchor|Mother's Love}}]]{{HF}}
| {{ID|xx004292}}
| ''Healing spells and potions restore 25% more health for 8 hours.''
| Acquired when sleeping in the same location as your adopted child/children if you are female and not a [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|Werewolf]].
|-
| {{Anchor|Neloth's Health Boost}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01bd0a}}
| ''Neloth's 25 point health boost. Remains until submerged in water after which you lose 25 points of health until you return to Neloth.''
| Acquired during the quest [[Skyrim:Experimental Subject (A)|Experimental Subject]].
|-
| {{Anchor|Neloth's Memory Spell}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01c066}} {{ID|xx01c067}}
| ''Records memories of your experiences for Neloth.''
| Acquired during the quest [[Skyrim:Briarheart Necropsy|Briarheart Necropsy]].
|-
|{{Anchor|Nightingale Armor Full Set}}
|{{ID|0001711f}}
|''Increases Armor Rating by 25 points.''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:Trinity Restored|Trinity Restored]]; only effective if wearing all [[Skyrim:Nightingale Armor|Nightingale Armor]]. Listed in Active Effects menu under "Fortify Armor Rating".
|-
|{{Anchor|Nightstalker's Footsteps}}
|{{ID|0010F1E7}}
|''25% harder to detect while sneaking.''
|Nightstalker's Footsteps is a permanent effect gained from stage one of Vampirism. Listed in Active Effects menu under "Fortify Sneak".
|-
|{{Anchor|Prowler's Profit}}
|{{Small|00f20be}}
|''Anywhere gems might be found, members of the Thieves Guild always seem to find a few more.''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:No Stone Unturned|No Stone Unturned]]. Grants a greater chance of finding additional gems in chests. For details, see [[Skyrim:Gems#Valuable Gems|Gems]].
|-
|[[Skyrim:Argonian#Resist Disease|Resist Disease]]
|{{ID|00104acf}}
|''Your Argonian blood is 50% [[Skyrim:Resist Disease|resistant to disease]].''
|[[Skyrim:Argonian|Argonian]] racial resistance.
|-
|{{Anchor|Resist Disease}}
|{{ID|000f5ba0}}
|''Your beast blood gives you 100% [[Skyrim:Resist Disease|resistance to disease]].''
|[[Skyrim:Werewolf|Werewolf]] bonus.
|-
|{{Anchor|Resist Disease}}
|{{ID|000ed0a8}}
|''Your Vampiric blood gives you 100% [[Skyrim:Resist Disease|resistance to disease]].''
|[[Skyrim:Vampirism|Vampire]] bonus.
|-
|[[Skyrim:Resist Disease and Poison|Resist Disease and Poison]]
|{{ID|000aa025}}
|''Your Bosmer blood gives you 50% resistance to [[Skyrim:Resist Poison|poison]] and [[Skyrim:Resist Disease|disease]].''
|[[Skyrim:Wood Elf|Bosmer]] racial resistance. Listed in Active Effects menu under both "Resist Disease" and "Resist Poison".
|-
|{{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Dark Elf#Resist Fire|Resist Fire]]}}
|{{ID|000aa021}}
|''Your Dunmer blood gives you 50% [[Skyrim:Resist Fire|resistance to fire]].''
|[[Skyrim:Dark Elf|Dunmer]] racial resistance.
|-
|{{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Nord#Resist Frost|Resist Frost]]}}
|{{ID|000aa020}}
|''Your Nord blood gives you 50% [[Skyrim:Resist Frost|resistance to Frost]].''
|[[Skyrim:Nord|Nord]] racial resistance.
|-
|{{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Redguard#Resist Poison|Resist Poison]]}}
|{{ID|000aa023}}
|''Your Redguard blood gives you 50% [[Skyrim:Resist Poison|resistance to poison]].''
|[[Skyrim:Redguard|Redguard]] racial resistance.
|-
|{{Anchor|Resist Poison}}
|{{ID|0010fb30}}
|''Your Vampiric blood gives you 100% resistance to poison.''
|[[Skyrim:Vampirism|Vampire]] bonus.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Rested|{{Anchor|Rested}}]]
| {{ID|000fb981}}
| ''All skills improve 5% faster for 8 hours.''
| Acquired when sleeping in a normal bed, i.e neither in a player home nor a rented bed in an inn nor with the player's spouse. Not obtained by players who have the [[Skyrim:The Lover Stone|Lover's Stone]] active or are a [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|Werewolf]].
|-
|{{Anchor|Sailor's Repose}}
|{{ID|000d397f}}
|''[[Skyrim:Restore Health|Healing]] spells cure 10% more.''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:Frostflow Abyss|Frostflow Abyss]].
|-
| {{Anchor|Scholar's Insight}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx01e7ef}}
| ''Reading [[Skyrim:Skill Books|Skill Books]] gives you an extra Skill Point.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Winds of Change (book)|The Winds of Change]]''.
* Note that while books you have not read grant you two skill points, books you have already read will ''not'' grant you an extra skill point if you read them again, so you'll get the most benefit from this if you get it fairly early in the game (or you've just been ignoring skill books until now).
|-
| {{Anchor|Seeker of Might}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx034834}}
| ''Combat skills are all 10% more effective.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Sallow Regent (book)|The Sallow Regent]]''.
|-
| {{Anchor|Seeker of Shadows}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx034838}}
| ''Stealth skills are all 10% more effective.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Sallow Regent (book)|The Sallow Regent]]''.
|-
| {{Anchor|Seeker of Sorcery}}{{DB}}
| {{ID|xx034837}}
| ''All spells cost 10% less magicka. Enchantments are 10% more powerful.''
| Acquired from the Black Book ''[[Skyrim:Black Book: The Sallow Regent (book)|The Sallow Regent]]''.
* Note that the 10% enchanting bonus does not appear in the dialogue box presented for 'Activate Seeker of Sorcery'. It only shows up in the Active Effects section of the Magic menu.''
* The 10% cost reduction stacks multiplicatively, not additively, with cost reduction from Fortify Magic Skill enchantments.
|-
|{{Anchor|Shrouded Armor Full Set}}
|{{ID|0001711d}}
|''Increases Armor Rating by 25 points.''
|This bonus applies for any combination of [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] armor, namely any combination of four pieces of [[Skyrim:Ancient Shrouded Armor|Ancient Shrouded]], [[Skyrim:Shrouded Armor|Shrouded]], or [[Skyrim:Worn Shrouded Armor|Worn Shrouded]] armor; [[Skyrim:Tumblerbane Gloves|Tumblerbane Gloves]] also qualify.
|-
|{{Anchor|Sinderion's Serendipity}}
|{{ID|0010bf09}}
|''There is a 25% chance of creating a duplicate potion when using your alchemy skill.''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:A Return To Your Roots|A Return To Your Roots]]. The ability is independent of the book ''[[Skyrim:The Nirnroot Missive|The Nirnroot Missive]]'', and therefore remains active even if you remove the book from your inventory.
|-
|{{Anchor|Surefoot}}
|{{ID|0009379c}}
|''You move more quietly.''
|Not available in game, effects are: [[Skyrim:Muffle (effect)|Muffle]], 1 point.
|-
|{{Anchor|Turn of the Seasons}}{{CC|Forgotten Seasons}}
|{{ID|xx0df80f}} {{ID|xx0df815}}
|''Barter prices are 10% better when raining. With a full set of Light Armor equipped, stamina regenerates 5% faster in clear or clement weather. 10% chance of a critical hit that does 10% more critical damage with bows when overcast. With a full set of Heavy Armor equipped, armor rating increased by 10% when snowing.''
|Reward from [[Skyrim:Forgotten Seasons (quest)|Forgotten Seasons]], acquired by reading ''[[SR:Turn of the Seasons|Turn of the Seasons]]''.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Vampiric Blood Rested|{{Anchor|Vampiric Blood Rested}}]]{{DG}}
| {{ID|xx008e3d}}
| ''Increases magic resistance by 10%.''
| Acquired if you are a vampire and sleep in a coffin.
* The ability is active for 12 hours.
|-
|{{Anchor|Waterbreathing}}
|{{ID|000aa01b}}
|''Your Argonian lungs can {{sic|[[Skyrim:Waterbreathing (effect)|breath]]|breathe}} underwater.''
|[[Skyrim:Argonian|Argonian]] racial bonus.
|-
|{{Anchor|Weakened Soul}}{{DG}}
|{{ID|xx00eab5}}
|''Health, Magicka, and Stamina recover slowly while in Soul Cairn and are reduced by 45 points.''
|Effect of being partially soul trapped during [[Skyrim:Chasing Echoes|Chasing Echoes]]
* Health regeneration is slowed by 80%.
* Magicka and Stamina regeneration are slowed by 50%.
* Effects are removed when you retrieve the [[Skyrim:Soul Essence Gem (Full)|Soul Essence Gem]].
|-
| [[Skyrim:Well Rested|{{Anchor|Well Rested}}]]
| {{ID|000fb984}}
| ''All skills improve 10% faster for 8 hours.''
| Acquired when sleeping in a player home (if you have no spouse or your spouse is not in the same home) or in a rented bed in an inn. Not obtained if you have the [[Skyrim:The Lover Stone|Lover's Stone]] active or are a [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|Werewolf]].
|}

==Abilities When Transformed==
Some Abilities are activated or effective only when you're in either [[Skyrim:Beast Form|Werewolf Form]] or [[Skyrim:Vampire Lord#Vampire Lord Form|Vampire Lord form]]. The ability descriptions can not be directly seen anywhere in the game as the conventional menus including the Active Effects menu are not accessible when transformed. Such abilities are listed in the following table.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Name
![[Skyrim:Form ID|Spell/Perk ID]]
!Description
!Notes
|-
| [[Skyrim:Frostmoon Bloodlust|{{Anchor|Frostmoon Bloodlust}}]]{{DB}}
|{{ID|xx035B17}}
|''While in Beast Form, your attacks do 50% more damage, but you also take 50% more damage.''
|Acquired from [[Skyrim:Ring of Bloodlust|Ring of Bloodlust]] while transformed as a Werewolf.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Frostmoon Howl|{{Anchor|Frostmoon Howl}}]]{{DB}}
|{{ID|xx035B16}}
|''Increases the duration of your Howls by 25%.''
|Acquired from [[Skyrim:Ring of the Moon|Ring of the Moon]] while transformed as a Werewolf.
|-
| [[Skyrim:Frostmoon Hunt|{{Anchor|Frostmoon Hunt}}]]{{DB}}
|{{ID|xx035B1E}}
|''While in Beast Form, your health regenerates.''
* Health regenerates 100% faster. Regenerate an extra 1% of maximum health per second.
|Acquired from [[Skyrim:Ring of the Hunt|Ring of the Hunt]] while transformed as a Werewolf.
|}

==Bugs==
{{Bug|Ancient Knowledge gives a 25% armor bonus while wearing any type of armor ''except'' Dwarven (any armor at all prior to patch 1.9).|USKP|1.3.1}}
** This bug was supposed to be fixed by Official Patch 1.9.26.0.8, but Bethesda erroneously required that the armor ''not'' be Dwarven.
{{Bug|Ancient Knowledge increases effective Smithing skill by 15% when tempering weapons and armor instead of giving a Smithing leveling bonus of 15%.|USKP|1.3.1}}
{{Bug|The Seeker of Shadows reward from The Sallow Regent only gives a 9% bonus to prices instead of the advertised 10%.|UDBP|1.0.3}}
{{Bug|The Lover's Insight reward from The Winds of Change only gives a 9% bonus to prices instead of the advertised 10%.|UDBP|1.0.5}}
{{Bug|In rare instances, the Scholar's Insight reward will only give you one point from the skill book. This is the same bug as noted on the [[Skyrim:Skill Books#Bugs|Skill Books]] page, but it's twice as likely to occur with Scholar's Insight, since you're leveling up twice.|confirmed=1}}
** Hold off on reading the book until you've advanced a level in that skill.
{{Bug|The Secret of Arcana power lasts indefinitely as long as a single concentration spell (without the relevant Dual Casting perks) or any combination of concentration spells is dual-cast.|confirmed=1}}
**This can be used to cast the Master level Destruction spell Lightning Storm indefinitely with no magicka cost.
{{Bug|Sailor's Repose has an incorrect taper duration and an incorrect magnitude set.|USKP|2.0.3}}
{{Bug|Even though it's active, Prowler's Profit does not appear in the active effects list.|USKP|1.3.0|trackerid=9666}}
{{Bug|Certain shouts may continue to damage followers even with the Companion's Insight ability.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|Wearing more than four relics of Ahzidal won't grant the Ahzidal's Genius bonus.|confirmed=1}}
**Wearing exactly four of the relics will re-activate the effect.
{{Bug|Vampire followers are not protected by Companion's Insight. This applies to [[Skyrim:Serana|Serana]] as well as any spouse follower you have turned into a vampire through [[Skyrim:The Gift|The Gift]].|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|While Breath of Nchuak damage can be increased with Fortify Destruction potions, the damage listed under the power will still read 15 per second.|confirmed=0}}
{{Bug|Dragons disintegrated by Dragonborn Force may not yield dragon souls or any loot.|confirmed=0}}
{{Bug|The Imperial Luck racial passive erroneously gets applied to all players after Unbound is completed. It will not show up under Active Effects though, unless you're Imperial. Imperials don't have the bonus applied twice for them—they instead have the bonus immediately instead of after Unbound.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|Nightingale Strife may be used multiple times per day rather than just once.|confirmed=0}}

==See Also==
*[[Skyrim:Blessings|Blessings]]
*[[Skyrim:Dragon Shouts|Dragon Shouts]]
*[[Skyrim:Spells|Spells]]

Skyrim:Transport

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Kiz: Undo revision 3560404 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{Trail|Hints}}
[[File:SR-activity-Carriage.jpg|thumb|Whiterun carriage driver [[Skyrim:Bjorlam|Bjorlam]]: ''"Need a ride?"''|right]]There are multiple methods of '''transport''' in Skyrim.

==Walking, Running, Strafing and Sprinting==
'''Walking''' is the slowest speed at which you will normally move. To walk, use the [[Skyrim:Controls#Movement|movement control]] appropriate for your platform. You cannot move faster than at a walking pace while you are [[Skyrim:Encumbrance|overencumbered]].

You will generally spend most of your time moving at a moderate '''run'''; running uses no [[Skyrim:Stamina|stamina]]. You can also '''strafe''' or sidestep using the left or right "move" commands.

'''Sprint''' by holding the sprint control key (or toggle on/off for the [[SR:Special Edition|Special Edition]]). Sprinting is significantly faster than running. As it consumes stamina, you can only sprint for a limited distance. You will generally exhaust your stamina more quickly when sprinting in heavy armor or when wielding a heavy weapon.

Walking or running backwards is slower than going forwards, and you cannot sprint backwards or sideways.

Movement speed is decreased by a percentage equal to the total weight of currently equipped weapons and gear multiplied by 3/23, with a maximum penalty of 15% at or above 115 weight equipped. This penalty can be mitigated by taking the [[Skyrim:The_Steed_Stone|Steed Stone]], the Conditioning perk from [[Skyrim:Heavy_Armor|Heavy Armor]], or the Unhindered perk from [[Skyrim:Light_Armor|Light Armor]].

===Movement Speeds by Method and Conditions===

{| class="wikitable sortable striped"
|-
! data-sort-type:text | Movement methods and conditions
! data-sort-type:number | Raw
! data-sort-type:number | {{hover|Feet per Second|F/sec}}
|-
| {{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Horses|Horse]] [[Skyrim:Controls#Sprint|sprinting]] [[Skyrim:Controls#Movement|forward]]}}
| 600
| 28.1
|-
| {{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Vampire_Lord|Vampire Lord]]{{DG}} sprinting forward}}
| 600
| 28.1
|-
| {{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Werewolf|Werewolf]] sprinting forward}}
| 531
| 24.9
|-
| {{Anchor|Sprinting forward}}
| 500
| 23.4
|-
| {{Anchor|''Horse'' running forward}}
| 450
| 21.1
|-
| {{Anchor|''Vampire Lord'' running}}
| 400
| 18.8
|-
| {{Anchor|''Werewolf'' running}}
| 400
| 18.8
|-
| {{Anchor|Running forward}} {{Anchor|Swim "running" forward}} {{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Weapons#Bows|Bow]] [[Skyrim:Controls#Power_Attack|drawn]] running forward with [[Skyrim:Ranger (perk)|Ranger perk]]}} {{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Controls#Block|Block]] running forward with [[Skyrim:Block Runner|Block Runner perk]]}}
| 370
| 17.3
|-
| {{Anchor|[[Skyrim:Controls#Sneak|Sneak]] running forward}}
| 222
| 10.4
|-
| {{Anchor|Horse swimming forward}}
| 210
| 9.8
|-
| {{Anchor|Running backward}} {{Anchor|Swim "running" backward}} {{Anchor|Bow drawn running backward with ''Ranger perk''}} {{Anchor|Block running backward with ''Block Runner'' perk}}
| 205
| 9.6
|-
| {{Anchor|Sneak running backward}}
| 150
| 7.0
|-
| {{Anchor|Bow drawn running forward}}
| 135
| 6.3
|-
| {{Anchor|''Horse'' walking forward}}
| 125
| 5.9
|-
| {{Anchor|Bow drawn walking forward}}
| 120
| 5.6
|-
| {{Anchor|''Horse'' running backward}} {{Anchor|''Horse'' walking backward}}
| 108
| 5.1
|-
| {{Anchor|Bow drawn running backward}}
| 98
| 4.6
|-
| {{Anchor|Blocking forward}}
| 81
| 3.8
|-
| {{Anchor|Walking forward}} {{Anchor|Swim "walking" forward}}
| 80
| 3.8
|-
| {{Anchor|Walking backward}} {{Anchor|Swim "walking" backward}}
| 72
| 3.3
|-
| {{Anchor|Blocking backward}}
| 71
| 3.3
|-
| {{Anchor|''Vampire Lord'' walking}}
| 70
| 3.3
|-
| {{Anchor|''Werewolf'' walking}}
| 70
| 3.3
|-
| {{Anchor|Bow drawn walking backward}}
| 65
| 3.0
|-
| {{Anchor|Sneak walking forward}}
| 47
| 2.2
|-
| {{Anchor|Sneak walking backward}}
| 43
| 2.0
|}

==Falling==
Also see information on [[Skyrim:Damage#Falling_Damage|falling]], which can hurt or kill you.

=={{Anchor|Dragon Riding}}{{DB}}==
As part of the [[Skyrim:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] DLC, you can ride a [[SR:dragon|dragon]] once you have acquired all three words of the [[Skyrim:Bend Will|Bend Will]] shout. For more information see [[Skyrim:Dragon Riding|Dragon Riding]].

As you cannot steer a dragon while riding it, the main functionality of this method of transportation is for [[#Fast Travel|fast travel]].

==Horse Riding==
You can travel much faster on horseback than on foot. You can also ride a horse while overencumbered for normal or fast travel. For complete information see [[Skyrim:Horses|Horses]].

==Carriage==
Carriages will carry you between the nine capital cities of each [[Skyrim:Holds|hold]] in Skyrim for 20–50 gold. They are the fastest means to get to cities which you have not yet discovered - although in the plain game, they are only available in the five major hold capitals: the four smaller hold capitals can be the destination but not the origin of a carriage journey.

The fare to the five larger hold capitals of [[Skyrim:Markarth|Markarth]], [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]], [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]], [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]], and [[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]] costs 20 gold, whereas going to the four smaller hold capitals of [[Skyrim:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]], [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]], [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], and [[Skyrim:Winterhold|Winterhold]] costs 50 gold.

With the [[Skyrim:Hearthfire|Hearthfire]] [[Skyrim:Add-ons|add-on]], homestead carriages also provide transport from the three homesteads to [[Skyrim:Darkwater Crossing|Darkwater Crossing]], [[Skyrim:Dragon Bridge|Dragon Bridge]], [[Skyrim:Ivarstead|Ivarstead]], [[Skyrim:Karthwasten|Karthwasten]], [[Skyrim:Kynesgrove|Kynesgrove]], [[Skyrim:Old Hroldan Inn|Old Hroldan Inn]], [[Skyrim:Riverwood|Riverwood]], [[Skyrim:Rorikstead|Rorikstead]], [[Skyrim:Shor's Stone|Shor's Stone]], and [[Skyrim:Stonehills|Stonehills]]. There is no charge for these services beyond the initial cost of hiring the carriage driver.

All drivers never sleep and are always available.

You will always use the seat on the left side of the carriage when boarding, no matter which side you board from.

There are none to be found on [[Skyrim:Solstheim|Solstheim]]{{DB}}.

When first arriving at one of the five major hold capitals, you can speak with the carriage operator for some local information.
{{Bug|Carriages will not operate when you are [[Skyrim:Encumbrance|overencumbered]].|USKP|1.0|Carriages will now transport you when you're overencumbered, as will horses and ferries.}}
{{Bug|Vampire attacks during eclipses with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]] add-on may cause vampires to attempt to kill the horses attached to the carriages, even though they're supposed to be invulnerable.|UDGP|2.0.0|A missing faction to make them friendly with vampires has been created.}}
{{Bug|Depending on how long the carriage driver's line is, the screen may turn black and cut the ending parts off before proceeding to your destination.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|Shooting arrows at the horse at your Hearthfire house may earn you a bounty in [[Skyrim:Whiterun Hold|Whiterun Hold]], regardless of whichever Hold you are in.}}

The carriage drivers are:

* [[Skyrim:Alfarinn|Alfarinn]] ([[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]])
* [[Skyrim:Bjorlam|Bjorlam]] ([[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]])
* [[Skyrim:Engar|Engar]] ([[Skyrim:Windstad Manor|Windstad Manor]]){{HF}}
* [[Skyrim:Gunjar (Hearthfire)|Gunjar]] ([[Skyrim:Lakeview Manor|Lakeview Manor]]){{HF}}
* [[Skyrim:Kibell|Kibell]] ([[Skyrim:Markarth|Markarth]])
* [[Skyrim:Markus|Markus]] ([[Skyrim:Heljarchen Hall|Heljarchen Hall]]){{HF}}
* [[Skyrim:Sigaar|Sigaar]] ([[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]])
* [[Skyrim:Thaer|Thaer]] ([[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]])

=={{Anchor|Ferrymen}}{{DG}}==
Three ferrymen are added by the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]] [[Skyrim:Add-ons|add-on]] and can transport you between three coastal cities for 50 gold, or to [[Skyrim:Icewater Jetty|Icewater Jetty]] for 500 gold. You can also take a self-service ferry between Icewater Jetty and [[Skyrim:Castle Volkihar|Castle Volkihar]] for free.

With the [[SR:Bittercup|Bittercup]] [[SR:Creation Club|Creation]], you may have to ask Harlaug to bring you to the island of [[SR:Giant's Tooth|Giant's Tooth]]. He will continue to offer transport to the remote island for 50 gold.

The ferry drivers are:

* [[Skyrim:Gort|Gort]] ([[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]])
* [[Skyrim:Harlaug|Harlaug]] ([[Skyrim:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]])
* [[Skyrim:Jolf|Jolf]] ([[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]])

==={{Anchor|Solstheim Ferryman}}{{DB}}===
A fourth ferryman is added by the [[Skyrim:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] add-on and can transport you between Windhelm and [[Skyrim:Raven Rock|Raven Rock]] for 250 gold, or for free if you convince him in the [[Skyrim:Dragonborn (quest)|Dragonborn]] quest.

The fourth ferry driver is:

* [[Skyrim:Gjalund Salt-Sage|Gjalund Salt-Sage]] ([[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]] and [[Skyrim:Raven Rock|Raven Rock]])

[[File:SR-interior-Dead Man's Dread (map).jpg|thumb|right|The map in ''Dead Man's Dread'']]
==={{Anchor|Dead Man's Dread}}{{CC|Dead Man's Dread}}===
With the [[SR:Dead Man's Dread|Dead Man's Dread]] [[SR:Creation Club|Creation]], you will have the opportunity to acquire the ''[[Skyrim:Dead Man's Dread (place)|Dead Man's Dread]]'', an ancient pirate ship that serves as a [[Skyrim:Houses|player home]]. Once you have claimed the ship as your own, a map inside allows for instant sea transportation. This map will bring you to Solitude, Dawnstar, or Windhelm. You will also unlock the ability to travel to Castle Volkihar (or rather, Icewater Jetty) and [[Skyrim:Raven Rock|Raven Rock]] once you have discovered these places. This mode of travel is one-way.

==Fast Travel==
You can fast travel from any exterior location to any location marked on your in-game [[Skyrim:maps|map]] and which you have discovered (visited). Discovered locations are indicated on your map or compass with light-colored markers. Dark-colored markers, on the other hand, are places you have had marked on your map but have not yet discovered yourself, and therefore are not available for fast travel. Although fast travel transports you "instantly", a more "realistic" amount of game time will have passed upon arrival; however, such elapsed travel times are the same whether on foot or horseback. The further the distance, the more time that will pass before you arrive. You can also fast travel via the "Show On Map" function via your quest journal.

The forest section of [[Skyrim:Frostmere Crypt|Frostmere Crypt]] is considered outdoors, therefore you can fast travel from there.

With the [[Skyrim:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] expansion, you can fast travel between Skyrim and [[Skyrim:Solstheim|Solstheim]] after your first visit to the island. Fast traveling while [[Skyrim:Dragon Riding|riding a dragon]] transports you almost instantly in game time.

You cannot fast travel when near any hostile enemies, when overencumbered (unless you are on a horse), nor when falling, jumping, or during the animation of mounting a horse. You also cannot fast travel from [[Skyrim:Giant's Grove|Giant's Grove]] or [[Skyrim:Skuldafn|Skuldafn]], despite them being outdoor places. Fast travel is totally disabled when playing in [[SR:Survival Mode|Survival Mode]], except while riding a dragon.

{{Bug|Fast traveling from a snowy location can cause it to snow in areas that don't normally experience snowy weather conditions.}}
{{Bug|Rarely, fast traveling can cause the world to appear and be stuck in an underwater-like state.|OSSEP|1.6.1130}}

== See also ==

* [[Skyrim:Sneak|Sneak]] skill

Skyrim:Speech

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Kiz: Undo revision 3560405 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

<noinclude>{{Incomplete|We are missing the difficulty levels for all intimidation challenges, and all Speech challenges added by ''Dragonborn''.}}
{{Skills Summary
|Image=SR-skill-Speech.png
|Special=Stealth
|ExTrail=[[Skyrim:Stealth|Stealth]]
}}</noinclude>
The '''Speech''' skill (referred to as '''Speechcraft''' in the [[Skyrim:Console|Console]]) allows you to more effectively persuade people and to barter with shopkeepers. Perks in this skill allow you to get better deals when trading, buy and sell any kind of item to any merchant, and make it more likely for a persuasion or intimidation attempt to succeed. The Speech skill tree has a total of 9 perks, requiring a total of 13 perk points to fill.

In-game Description: ''The skill of persuasion can be used to get better prices from merchants, and persuade others to do as you ask.'' <includeonly> For more information, see the main [[Skyrim:Speech|article]].</includeonly><noinclude>

==Skill Perks==
{{Perk Tree Setup|width=300}}
{{Perk Tree|perks=
{{Image Mark|316|883|Haggling|mark_alt=Haggling (5 ranks): 0/20/40/60/80 Speech. Buying and selling prices are 10/15/20/25/30% better.|position=right}}
{{Image Mark|381|635|Allure|mark_alt=Allure: 30 Speech. 10% better prices with the opposite sex.|position=left}}
{{Image Mark|329|388|Merchant|mark_alt=Merchant: 50 Speech. Can sell any type of item to any kind of merchant.|position=left}}
{{Image Mark|288|249|Investor|mark_alt=Investor: 70 Speech. Can invest 500 gold with a shopkeeper to increase his available gold permanently.|position=left}}
{{Image Mark|250|135|Fence|mark_alt=Fence: 90 Speech. Can barter stolen goods with any merchant you have invested in.|position=left}}
{{Image Mark|569|69|Master Trader|mark_alt=Master Trader: 100 Speech. Every merchant in the world gains 1000 gold for bartering.|position=right}}
{{Image Mark|594|624|Bribery|mark_alt=Bribery: 30 Speech. Can bribe guards to ignore crimes.|position=topleft}}
{{Image Mark|712|365|Persuasion|mark_alt=Persuasion: 50 Speech. Persuasion attempts are 30% easier.|position=left}}
{{Image Mark|764|213|Intimidation|mark_alt=Intimidation: 70 Speech. Intimidation is twice as successful.|position=left}}
}}
{{NewLeft}}
{|class="wikitable sortable"
!Perk
!Rank
!class=unsortable|Description
!class=unsortable|[[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]]
!data-sort-type="number"|Skill Req.
!Perk Req.
|-
|rowspan=5|''{{Anchor|Haggling}}''
| 1
| Buying and selling prices are 10% better.
| {{ID|000be128}}
|
|
|-
| 2
| Buying and selling prices are 15% better.
| {{ID|000c07ce}}
| 20 Speech
|
|-
| 3
| Buying and selling prices are 20% better.
| {{ID|000c07cf}}
| 40 Speech
|
|-
| 4
| Buying and selling prices are 25% better.
| {{ID|000c07d0}}
| 60 Speech
|
|-
| 5
| Buying and selling prices are 30% better.
| {{ID|000c07d1}}
| 80 Speech
|
|-
|''{{Anchor|Allure}}''
|
| 10% better prices with the opposite sex.
| {{ID|00058f75}}
| 30 Speech
| Haggling
|-
|''{{Anchor|Merchant}}''
|
| Can sell any type of item to any kind of merchant.{{intnote|merchantperk|†}}
| {{ID|00058f7a}}
| 50 Speech
| Allure
|-
|''{{Anchor|Investor}}''
|
| Can invest 500 gold with a shopkeeper to increase his available gold permanently.{{intnote|investorperk|‡}}
| {{ID|00058f7b}}
| 70 Speech
| Merchant
|-
|''{{Anchor|Fence}}''
|
| Can barter stolen goods with any merchant you have invested in.
| {{ID|00058f79}}
| 90 Speech
| Investor
|-
|''{{Anchor|Master Trader}}''
|
| Every merchant in the world gains 1000 gold for bartering.{{intnote|mastertraderperk|¥}}
| {{ID|001090a5}}
| 100 Speech
| Fence
|-
|''{{Anchor|Bribery}}''
|
| Can bribe guards to ignore crimes.
| {{ID|00058f72}}
| 30 Speech
| Haggling
|-
|''{{Anchor|Persuasion}}''
|
| Persuasion attempts are 30% easier.
| {{ID|001090a2}}
| 50 Speech
| Bribery
|-
|''{{Anchor|Intimidation}}''
|
| Intimidation is twice as likely to be successful.
| {{ID|00105f29}}
| 70 Speech
| Persuasion
|}
{{note|merchantperk|†|The Merchant perk also allows you to ''buy'' any item from a merchant's inventory. One implication is that various bugged [[Skyrim:alchemy|alchemy]] [[Skyrim:ingredients|ingredients]] that normally cannot be purchased become available, making some ingredients much easier to find.}}
{{note|investorperk|‡|Some [[sr:merchants|merchants]] have the dialogue allowing you to Invest with them, but doing so does not result in any permanent change in the merchant's available gold. This bug is noted on the pages of individual merchants for whom it applies, and on [[sr:merchants|the general merchants page]], which also lists which merchants do or not allow investment - most do not.}}
{{note|mastertraderperk|¥|The Master Trader perk increases most [[sr:merchants|merchants]]' gold by 1000; see [[sr:merchants|the merchants page]] for a listing of which ones.}}

==Skill Usage==
Your Speech skill determines the chance of successfully being able to get information out of an [[Skyrim:People|NPC]] using intimidation or persuasion. These Speech Challenges will be provided as options during certain dialogues. You can temporarily boost your character's effective Speech skill by activating a [[Skyrim:Shrines|Shrine of Dibella]]; acquiring the [[Skyrim:Blessings#Other_Blessings|Gift of Charity]] buff; drinking a [[Skyrim:Potions|Potion, Draught, Philter, or Elixir of Glibness]]; and equipping items that boost Speech, such as an [[Skyrim:Amulets_of_the_Divines|Amulet of Dibella]], the [[Skyrim:Amulet_of_Articulation|Amulet of Articulation]], or the [[Skyrim:Masque_of_Clavicus_Vile|Masque of Clavicus Vile]]. These buffs stack, but they have different durations, so plan accordingly.

Special dialogue options include:
* ''{{Anchor|Persuade}}:'' influence someone by reasoning with them. Chances of success depend solely upon your Speech skill.
* ''{{Anchor|Intimidate}}:'' influence someone by threatening them. Success depends on the player's "scariness" being higher than the NPC's "scariness", determined by a formula.
* ''{{Anchor|Bribe}}:'' influence someone by giving them money. A formula calculates the required gold amount, a successful bribe therefore depends on having the necessary amount of gold.

Your Speech skill also affects merchant prices; prices can be further improved using some of the Speech skill perks, barter potions or enchanted equipment.

The base rate for buying/selling is based solely on your Speech skill and any perks or Fortify Barter effects are applied to prices afterwards.

=== Bribe Formula ===
NPC Morality = (NPC Morality Actor Value * fBribeMoralityMult) + 1.0
v11 = ((NPC Actor Level * fBribeNPCLevelMult) + Player Level) - (((Player Speech Actor Value - NPC Speech Actor Value)) - 100.0) * fBribeSpeechCraftMult)
bribeValue = (v11 ^ fBribeCostCurve) * (fBribeScale * NPC Morality)

=== Intimidate Formula ===
Player's Scariness = Player Level × (1.0 + max(-1.0, (Player Speech Actor Value - NPC Speech Actor Value) ÷ 100)) ^ fIntimidateSpeechcraftCurve game setting
NPC's Scariness = NPC Level x fIntimidateConfidenceMult___ game setting

Replace ___ with the NPC's confidence level (there is a game setting for each possible confidence level).

The player's scariness can also be modified by perks with the "Mod Player Intimidation" perk entry point.

=== Persuasion Options ===
What follows is a list of all persuasion attempts that can be made in Skyrim. Spoilers in this list are intentionally kept very minor. All speech challenges fall into one of five categories: [[#Very Easy|Very Easy]], [[#Easy|Easy]], [[#Average|Average]], [[#Hard|Hard]], and [[#Very Hard|Very Hard]]. Their skill requirements to pass are 10, 25, 50, 75, and 100, respectively. Possessing the Persuasion perk reduces the requirements on all but Very Easy challenges by 30%, dropping them to 10, 18, 35, 53, and 70, respectively. Wearing the [[Skyrim:Amulet of Articulation|Amulet of Articulation]] allows you to succeed at any persuasion check in the game regardless of skill.

Note that although certain Speech checks are marked as impossible to fail, the lowest Speech level attainable is 15, meaning all Very Easy checks are, in essence, also impossible to fail.

Note that although certain Speech checks are marked as guaranteed to fail, some of them may due to bugs comparing against the specified character's Speech skill, rather than your own.

==== Impossible to Fail ====
Vanilla Game
*[[Skyrim:Before the Storm|Before the Storm]], convincing the [[Skyrim:Guard|Whiterun Guard]] to let you into [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]].
*[[Skyrim:Delayed Burial|Delayed Burial]], persuade [[Skyrim:Vantus_Loreius|Vantus Loreius]] to help Cicero, or persuade [[SR:Pale Hold Guard|Pale Hold Guard]] to scold Cicero.
*[[Skyrim:A Daedra's Best Friend|A Daedra's Best Friend]], getting [[Skyrim:Lod|Lod]] to pay you 25 gold before searching for the dog.
*[[Skyrim:With Friends Like These...|With Friends Like These...]], getting the captives to reveal information about themselves.
*[[Skyrim:Recipe for Disaster|Recipe for Disaster]], intimidating [[Skyrim:Anton Virane|Anton Virane]] to reveal information.
*[[Skyrim:The Taste of Death|The Taste of Death]], getting the [[Skyrim:Markarth Hall of the Dead Key|Markarth Hall of the Dead Key]] from [[Skyrim:Brother Verulus|Brother Verulus]].
*Getting information on the meadery from [[Skyrim:Ungrien|Ungrien]].
[[Skyrim:Creation Club|Creation Club]]
*[[Skyrim:A_Matter_of_Pride|A Matter of Pride]], persuading [[Skyrim:Lars_Battle-Born|Lars Battle-Born]] to give you [[Skyrim:Goldbrand_Items#Sivdur.27s_Amulet|Sivdur's Amulet]]. {{CC|Goldbrand}}
*[[SR:Gambler's Edge|Gambler's Edge]], persuade [[SR:Armor Collector|Armor Collector]] by choosing option ''"You know what you did. I just want to hear you say it."'' {{CC|Alternative Armors - Orcish Scaled}}

==== {{Anchor|Very Easy}} (10) ====
Vanilla Game
*[[Skyrim:The Forsworn Conspiracy|The Forsworn Conspiracy]], getting [[Skyrim:Margret|Margret]] to reveal information.
*[[Skyrim:Sanuarach Mine (quest)|Sanuarach Mine]], intimidating [[Skyrim:Ainethach|Ainethach]] to sell the mine.
*Persuading a shakedown bandit to leave you alone for 50 gold.
*Convincing the toll bandit near [[Skyrim:Valtheim Towers|Valtheim Towers]] to let you pass for paying only 50 gold.
[[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]]
*Getting a free sample from the [[Skyrim:Dealer|Dealer]] at [[Skyrim:Redwater Den|Redwater Den]]. {{DG}}
[[Skyrim:Creation Club|Creation Club]]
*[[SR:Fortunate Son|Fortunate Son]], sell the [[SR:Bittercup_Items#Poisons|Spiked Sujamma]] to [[SR:Kleppr|Kleppr]] for 5 gold. {{CC|Bittercup}}

==== {{Anchor|Easy}} (25/18) ====
Vanilla Game
{{Columns|count=2|width=20em|
*[[Skyrim:Caught Red Handed|Caught Red Handed]], getting the [[Skyrim:Mark of Dibella|Mark of Dibella]] from [[Skyrim:Hofgrir Horse-Crusher|Hofgrir Horse-Crusher]].
*[[Skyrim:Compelling Tribute (Imperial)|Compelling Tribute]], getting gold from [[Skyrim:Anuriel|Anuriel]].
*[[Skyrim:Compelling Tribute (Stormcloaks)|Compelling Tribute]], getting gold from [[Skyrim:Raerek|Raerek]].
*[[Skyrim:A Cornered Rat|A Cornered Rat]], convincing [[Skyrim:Esbern|Esbern]] to open his door.
*[[Skyrim:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], Getting the Thalmor guard to leave his post.
*[[SR:The Forsworn Conspiracy|The Forsworn Conspiracy]], getting information on [[Skyrim:Weylin|Weylin]] from [[Skyrim:Mulush gro-Shugurz|Mulush gro-Shugurz]].
*[[SR:The Forsworn Conspiracy|The Forsworn Conspiracy]], getting [[Skyrim:Key to Weylin's Room|Weylin's Key]] from [[Skyrim:Garvey|Garvey]].
*[[Skyrim:No One Escapes Cidhna Mine|No One Escapes Cidhna Mine]], getting skooma from [[Skyrim:Duach|Duach]].
*[[Skyrim:Good Intentions|Good Intentions]], getting the [[Skyrim:Augur of Dunlain|Augur of Dunlain]]'s location from [[Skyrim:Mirabelle Ervine|Mirabelle Ervine]].
*[[Skyrim:Promises to Keep|Promises to Keep]], getting [[Skyrim:Sibbi Black-Briar|Sibbi]]'s [[Skyrim:Sibbi's_Stash_Key|key]].
*[[Skyrim:Promises to Keep|Promises to Keep]], persuade [[Skyrim:Louis Letrush|Louis Letrush]] to both give the gold reward and let you keep [[Skyrim:Frost|Frost]].
*[[Skyrim:The Raid|The Raid]], getting [[Skyrim:Wujeeta|Wujeeta]] to reveal where she gets skooma.
*[[Skyrim:Season Unending|Season Unending]], convincing [[Skyrim:Ulfric|Ulfric]] to join the peace talks.
*[[Skyrim:Tending the Flames|Tending the Flames]], the first persuasion option when rewriting King Olaf's Verse.
*After [[Skyrim:A Night To Remember|A Night To Remember]], convincing [[Skyrim:Deep-In-His-Cups|Deep-In-His-Cups]] to accept a lower payment.
*[[SR:A Few Words with You|A Few Words with You]], convincing [[Skyrim:Irnskar Ironhand|Irnskar Ironhand]] to forgive [[Skyrim:Octieve San|Octieve San]]'s gambling debt.
*[[SR:A Few Words with You|A Few Words with You]], convincing [[Skyrim:Mikael|Mikael]] to leave [[Skyrim:Carlotta Valentia|Carlotta]] alone.
*[[SR:A Few Words with You|A Few Words with You]], convincing [[Skyrim:Mulush gro-Shugurz|Mulush gro-Shugurz]] to treat his workers better.
*[[SR:A Few Words with You|A Few Words with You]], convincing [[Skyrim:Ranmir|Ranmir]] to pay his debt to [[Skyrim:Haran|Haran]].
*[[SR:A Few Words with You|A Few Words with You]], convincing [[Skyrim:Roggi Knot-Beard|Roggi Knot-Beard]] to accept [[Skyrim:Iddra|Iddra]]'s charity.
*[[SR:A Few Words with You|A Few Words with You]], convincing [[Skyrim:Torbjorn Shatter-Shield|Torbjorn Shatter-Shield]] to pay his Argonian workers fair wages.
*[[SR:No News is Good News|No News is Good News]], convincing [[Skyrim:Captain Aldis|Captain Aldis]] to provide information about [[Skyrim:Angeline Morrard|Angeline Morrard]]'s daughter.
*[[SR:The Spiced Wine|The Spiced Wine]], convincing [[Skyrim:Vittoria Vici|Vittoria Vici]] to waive the fee for [[Skyrim:Evette San|Evette]].
*[[SR:Erik the Slayer (quest)|Erik the Slayer (quest)]], getting [[Skyrim:Erik|Erik]]'s father [[Skyrim:Mralki|Mralki]] to purchase armor for his son.
*[[SR:The Mind of Madness|The Mind of Madness]], convince [[SR:Una|Una]] or [[SR:Erdi|Erdi]] to give [[SR:Keys#Pelagius_Wing_Key|Pelagius Wing Key]].
*Cooling down [[Skyrim:Dirge|Dirge]] when talking about his name.
*Convincing [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]'s [[Skyrim:Riften Guard Jailor|guard jailor]] that you're allowed to be wandering the jail.
*Getting [[Skyrim:Ghorbash the Iron Hand|Ghorbash the Iron Hand]] to join you as a follower.
*Getting information from [[Skyrim:Maul|Maul]].
*Getting the [[Skyrim:Riften Guard|Riften guards]] at the main gate to let you in.
*Having [[Skyrim:Lynly Star-Sung|Lynly Star-Sung]] in [[Skyrim:Ivarstead|Ivarstead]] play you a song for free.
}}
[[SR:Dawnguard Quests|Dawnguard]]
{{Columns|count=2|width=20em|
*Selling Elder Scrolls to [[Skyrim:Urag gro-Shub|Urag gro-Shub]] for 3000 gold. {{DG}}}}
[[SR:Dragonborn Quests|Dragonborn]]
{{Columns|count=2|width=20em|
*[[Skyrim:Dragonborn_(quest)|Dragonborn]], convincing [[Skyrim:Gjalund_Salt-Sage|Gjalund Salt-Sage]] to ferry you to [[Lore:Solstheim|Solstheim]] for free. {{DB}}
*Recruiting [[Skyrim:Frea|Frea]] to join you as a follower. {{DB}}
}}
[[SR:Creation Club|Creation Club]]
*[[SR:Gambler's Edge|Gambler's Edge]], persuade [[SR:Armor Collector|Armor Collector]] by choosing option ''"Riften is dangerous. You need to leave before something happens."'' {{CC|Alternative Armors - Orcish Scaled}}
*[[SR:The Restless|The Restless]], persuade Imperial Soldier in [[SR:Castle_Dour#Castle_Dour_Dungeon|Castle Dour Dungeon]] to open the jail cell door. {{CC|Dead Man's Dread}}

==== {{Anchor|Average}} (50/35) ====
Vanilla Game
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*[[Skyrim:Buy Dwarven artifact|Buy Dwarven artifact]], getting [[Skyrim:Calcelmo|Calcelmo]] to pay you more.
*[[sr:Caught Red Handed|Caught Red Handed]], convincing [[Skyrim:Indaryn|Indaryn]] to give you the Mark of Dibella.
*[[sr:Caught Red Handed|Caught Red Handed]], convincing [[Skyrim:Bolli|Bolli]] to give you the Mark of Dibella.
*[[sr:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], convincing [[Skyrim:Elisif the Fair|Elisif the Fair]] to create a distraction.
*[[sr:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], convincing [[Skyrim:Igmund|Igmund]] to create a distraction.
*[[sr:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], convincing [[Skyrim:Ondolemar|Ondolemar]] to create a distraction.
*[[sr:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], convincing [[Skyrim:Siddgeir|Siddgeir]] to create a distraction.
*[[sr:Diplomatic Immunity|Diplomatic Immunity]], convincing [[Skyrim:Vittoria Vici|Vittoria Vici]] to create a distraction.
*[[Skyrim:The Fallen|The Fallen]], convincing the [[Skyrim:Balgruuf the Greater|Jarl of Whiterun]] to let you use Dragonsreach to capture a dragon.
*[[Skyrim:A False Front (Stormcloaks)|A False Front]], getting the innkeeper to tell you where the [[Skyrim:Imperial Courier|Imperial Courier]] is.
*[[Skyrim:A False Front (Imperial)|A False Front]], getting the innkeeper to tell you where the [[Skyrim:Stormcloak Courier|Stormcloak Courier]] is.
*[[sr:The Forsworn Conspiracy|The Forsworn Conspiracy]], getting the [[Skyrim:Key to Margret's Room|key]] to Margret's room from [[Skyrim:Kleppr|Kleppr]] or [[Skyrim:Frabbi|Frabbi]].
*[[sr:The Forsworn Conspiracy|The Forsworn Conspiracy]], getting [[Skyrim:Rhiada|Rhiada]] to let you in to see [[Skyrim:Thonar Silver-Blood|Thonar Silver-Blood]].
*[[sr:No One Escapes Cidhna Mine|No One Escapes Cidhna Mine]], getting [[Skyrim:Borkul the Beast|Borkul the Beast]] to let you in to see [[Skyrim:Madanach|Madanach]].
*[[sr:Hitting the Books|Hitting the Books]], convincing [[Skyrim:The Caller|The Caller]] to let you take the books and leave.
*[[sr:The House of Horrors|The House of Horrors]], convincing [[Skyrim:Logrolf the Willful|Logrolf]] that Boethiah sent you.
*[[sr:The Lover's Requital|The Lover's Requital]], getting Lynly to admit her true identity.
*[[sr:A Night To Remember|A Night To Remember]], getting [[Skyrim:Senna|Senna]] to reveal your next destination without cleaning the temple.
*[[sr:A Night To Remember|A Night To Remember]], getting [[Skyrim:Ysolda|Ysolda]] to reveal your next destination without getting her ring back.
*[[sr:Sanuarach Mine (quest)|Sanuarach Mine]], convincing [[Skyrim:Atar|Atar]] to leave [[Skyrim:Karthwasten|Karthwasten]].
*[[sr:Sanuarach Mine (quest)|Sanuarach Mine]], convincing [[Skyrim:Ainethach|Ainethach]] to sell the mine.
*[[sr:Season Unending|Season Unending]], convincing [[Skyrim:General Tullius|General Tullius]] to join the peace talks.
*[[sr:Tending the Flames|Tending the Flames]], the second persuasion option when rewriting King Olaf's Verse.
*[[sr:Stabilized|Stabilized]], convincing Sapphire to forgive Shadr's debt.
*Convincing [[Skyrim:Borgakh the Steel Heart|Borgakh the Steel Heart]] to join you as a follower.
*Convincing [[Skyrim:Drahff|Drahff]] and [[Skyrim:Hewnon Black-Skeever|Hewnon]] to leave you alone in the entrance of the [[Skyrim:The Ratway|Ratway]].{{intnote|‡|‡}}
*Convincing a random thief to leave you alone.
*During a random encounter with a would-be mage, convincing him to give you his staff.
*During a random encounter with a mercenary, convincing them to give you the location they were heading to.
}}
{{note|‡|‡|This persuasion challenge was cut from the game. These NPCs (Drahff and Hewnon) are instead always hostile to you.}}
[[SR:Dawnguard Quests|Dawnguard]]
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*[[Skyrim:Hunting the Monster|Hunting the Monster]], convincing a friend to help you find a vampire. {{DG}}
*[[Skyrim:Lost to the Ages|Lost to the Ages]], convincing [[Skyrim:Katria|Katria]] you are strong enough to handle [[Skyrim:Arkngthamz|Arkngthamz]]. {{DG}}
*[[Skyrim:A New Order|A New Order]], convincing [[Skyrim:Sorine Jurard|Sorine Jurard]] to join [[Skyrim:Dawnguard (faction)|Dawnguard]] without getting her a gyro. {{DG}}
*[[Skyrim:Hide and Seek (quest)|Hide and Seek]], intimidating the vampire into following you. {{DG}}
*[[Skyrim:Prophet|Prophet]], getting a carriage driver or innkeeper to give you information on the priest for free. {{DG}}}}
[[SR:Dragonborn Quests|Dragonborn]]
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*[[Skyrim:A New Source of Stalhrim|A New Source of Stalhrim]], convincing [[Skyrim:Ancarion|Ancarion]] to peacefully give you the map. {{DB}}
*[[SR:Feeding the Addiction|Feeding the Addiction]], convincing [[Skyrim:Geldis Sadri|Geldis Sadri]] to allow [[Skyrim:Bralsa Drel|Bralsa Drel]] back into [[Skyrim:The Retching Netch|The Retching Netch]]. {{DB}}
*[[SR:Convince Nikulas to stay in Skaal Village|Convince Nikulas to stay in Skaal Village]], convincing [[Skyrim:Nikulas (Dragonborn)|Nikulas]] to stay in [[Skyrim:Skaal Village|Skaal Village]]. {{DB}}}}
[[SR:Creation Club|Creation Club]]
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*[[SR:The Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|The Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]], convincing [[SR:Nivenor|Nivenor]] to give you 100 gold, Bolli's House Key and Nivenor's Strongbox Key. {{CC|The Gray Cowl Returns!}}
*[[SR:Fortunate Son|Fortunate Son]], sell the [[SR:Bittercup_Items#Poisons|Spiked Sujamma]] to [[SR:Kleppr|Kleppr]] for 50 gold. {{CC|Bittercup}}
*[[SR:Battle of the Champions|Battle of the Champions]], convince [[SR:Legate Adventus Caesennius|Legate Adventus Caesennius]] to let you fight as Imperial Champion. {{CC|Civil War Champions}}
*[[SR:Interception|Interception]], convince [[SR:Azadi|Azadi]] to leave without a brawl. {{CC|Redguard Elite Armaments}}
*[[SR:Interception|Interception]], convince [[SR:Fijeh|Fijeh]] to pay you 800 gold instead of 400 gold. {{CC|Redguard Elite Armaments}}
}}

==== {{Anchor|Hard}} (75/53) ====
Vanilla Game
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*[[SR:A Cornered Rat|A Cornered Rat]], getting Dirge to tell you the location of Esbern.
*[[SR:A Cornered Rat|A Cornered Rat]], getting [[Skyrim:Vekel the Man|Vekel the Man]] to tell you the location of Esbern.
*[[SR:A Cornered Rat|A Cornered Rat]], getting [[Skyrim:Brynjolf|Brynjolf]] to tell you the location of Esbern.
*[[SR:A Night To Remember|A Night To Remember]], convincing [[Skyrim:Ennis|Ennis]] to reveal your next destination without finding his goat.
*[[SR:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]], getting [[Skyrim:Sabjorn|Sabjorn]] to pay you half before the job.
*[[SR:Hard Answers|Hard Answers]], tricking Calcelmo into giving you the key to the museum.
*[[SR:Loud and Clear|Loud and Clear]], getting the key from [[Skyrim:Aringoth|Aringoth]].
*[[SR:Missing In Action|Missing In Action]], getting information on [[Skyrim:Thorald Gray-Mane|Thorald Gray-Mane]]'s location from [[Skyrim:Idolaf Battle-Born|Idolaf Battle-Born]].
*[[SR:Onmund's Request|Onmund's Request]], convincing [[Skyrim:Enthir|Enthir]] to give you the amulet for free.
*[[SR:Pieces of the Past|Pieces of the Past]], getting the hilt from [[Skyrim:Jorgen|Jorgen]].
*[[SR:The Pursuit|The Pursuit]], convincing [[Skyrim:Vald|Vald]] to leave his guard post.
*[[SR:Season Unending|Season Unending]], convincing your favored side to accept a minor hold.
*[[SR:Scoundrel's Folly|Scoundrel's Folly]], getting information from [[Skyrim:Gulum-Ei|Gulum-Ei]].
*[[SR:Summerset Shadows|Summerset Shadows]], getting [[Skyrim:Niranye|Niranye]] to tell the truth.
*Convincing a guard to ignore minor crimes.
*Convincing Markarth guards to leave you alone, but even then you will still be taken to Cidhna Mine; it is one of the few speech checks in the game that always fails regardless of skill.
*During a random encounter with an adventurer who calls you a milk drinker, backing away from the fight.
}}
[[SR:Dawnguard Quests|Dawnguard]]
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*[[Skyrim:Hide and Seek (quest)|Hide and Seek]], convincing the vampire to follow you. {{DG}}
*Getting second free sample from the attendant at [[Skyrim:Redwater Den|Redwater Den]]. {{DG}}
*[[SR:The Hunt|The Hunt]], persuade the target to coming with you. {{DG}}}}
[[SR:Dragonborn Quests|Dragonborn]]
{{Columns|count=2|width=20em|
*[[Skyrim:A New Debt|A New Debt]], convincing [[Skyrim:Drovas Relvi|Drovas Relvi]] to give you 250 gold to help pay off the debt to [[Skyrim:Mogrul_(Dragonborn)|Mogrul]]. {{DB}}
*[[Skyrim:A New Source of Stalhrim|A New Source of Stalhrim]], convincing [[Skyrim:Ancarion|Ancarion]] to let you sell [[Skyrim:Stalhrim|Stalhrim]] equipment to him. {{DB}}}}
[[SR:Creation Club|Creation Club]]
{{Columns|count=2|width=20em|
*[[SR:Interception|Interception]], convince [[SR:Fijeh|Fijeh]] to pay you 1600 gold instead of 400 gold. {{CC|Redguard Elite Armaments}}
}}

==== {{Anchor|Very Hard}} (100/70) ====
Vanilla Game
{{Columns|count=2|width=20em|
*Convincing [[Skyrim:Faralda|Faralda]] to let you join the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] without taking a test.
[[SR:Creation Club|Creation Club]]
*[[Skyrim:The Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|The Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]], convincing [[Skyrim:Gisli|Gisli]] to give you the [[Skyrim:The_Gray_Cowl_Returns!_Items#Land_Title_and_Deed|land title and deed]]. {{CC|The Gray Cowl Returns!}}
*[[Skyrim:More Than You Can Chew|More Than You Can Chew]], convincing the Riekling Tribe Leader to give you the book ''[[SR:Crafting with Netch Leather|Crafting with Netch Leather]]''. {{CC|Netch Leather Armor}}
*[[SR:Fortunate Son|Fortunate Son]], convincing the [[SR:Cuinanthil|Cuinanthil]] to believe someone is trying to rob him. {{CC|Bittercup}}
}}

==== {{Anchor|Guaranteed to Fail}} ====
Vanilla Game
{{Columns|count=2|width=20em|
*[[Skyrim:Before the Storm|Before the Storm]], intimidating the [[Skyrim:Whiterun Guard|Whiterun Guard]] into letting you in.
*[[Skyrim:Hard Answers|Hard Answers]], bribing or intimidating [[Skyrim:Calcelmo|Calcelmo]] into giving you the museum key.
*[[Skyrim:Scoundrel's Folly|Scoundrel's Folly]], intimidating [[Skyrim:Gulum-Ei|Gulum-Ei]] into giving you the information.
*[[Skyrim:The Black Star|The Black Star]], convincing [[Skyrim:Nelacar|Nelacar]] that a priestess of Azura sent you (due to a bug, it's supposed to be an easy challenge).
*[[Skyrim:The Forsworn Conspiracy|The Forsworn Conspiracy]], persuading or bribing [[Skyrim:Markarth Guard|Markarth Guards]] to leave you alone.
*[[Skyrim:The Pursuit|The Pursuit]], bribing or intimidating [[Skyrim:Vald|Vald]] into giving you the key to [[Skyrim:Riftweald Manor|Riftweald Manor]].
*[[Skyrim:The Taste of Death|The Taste of Death]], intimidating [[Skyrim:Brother Verulus|Brother Verulus]] into letting you into the [[Skyrim:Hall of the Dead (Markarth)|Hall of the Dead]].
*[[Skyrim:The Taste of Death|The Taste of Death]], intimidating [[Skyrim:Brother Verulus|Brother Verulus]] into following you to [[Skyrim:Reachcliff Cave|Reachcliff Cave]].
*[[Skyrim:The Taste of Death|The Taste of Death]], persuading [[Skyrim:Brother Verulus|Brother Verulus]] to follow you to [[Skyrim:Reachcliff Cave|Reachcliff Cave]] (due to a bug, it's supposed to be an easy challenge).
*[[Skyrim:No One Escapes Cidhna Mine|No One Escapes Cidhna Mine]], intimidating [[Skyrim:Borkul the Beast|Borkul the Beast]] into letting you see [[Skyrim:Madanach|Madanach]].{{intnote|†|†}}
*[[Skyrim:Stabilized|Stabilized]], intimidating [[Skyrim:Sapphire (person)|Sapphire]] into forgiving [[Skyrim:Shadr|Shadr]]'s debt.{{intnote|†|†}}
*Intimidating [[Skyrim:Borgakh the Steel Heart|Borgakh the Steel Heart]] into following you.{{intnote|†|†}}
*Intimidating [[Skyrim:Dirge|Dirge]] when talking about his name.{{intnote|†|†}}
}}
{{note|†|†|{{Bug|The confidence levels of these people is set to Foolhardy, which is too high for you to successfully intimidate them by normal means.|USKP|2|nobullet=1}}}}

=== Prices ===
Prices are computed by the following:

The Base Price Factor is calculated by your skill level; each skill rank reduces the price factor by .013 by default, and skill levels over 100 have no effect:

price factor = fBarterMax - (fBarterMax - fBarterMin) * min(skill,100)/100
price factor = 3.3 - 1.3*min(skill,100)/100
price factor = 3.3 - .013*min(skill,100)

*fBarterMax default is 3.3, fBarterMin default is 2.0 (defines a base vendor-selling-range of 200% to 330% of an item's base value, and a vendor-buying-range of 30% to 50%).
*the function min(x,y) return the smallest of two or more arguments (here, [skill-level] or [100]).

The modified Price Factor depends on perks and Fortify Barter bonus:

sell price modifier = HagglingS * AllureS * (1 + Fortify Barter from potion) * (1 + the sum of Fortify Barter from equipment + Fortify Barter from Blessing of Zenithar)
buy price modifier = HagglingB * AllureB * (1 - Fortify Barter from potion) * (1 - the sum of Fortify Barter from equipment - Fortify Barter from Blessing of Zenithar)

The final price combines the two Price Factors and rounds to the nearest whole number:

sell price = round(value of item * sell price modifier / base price factor)
buy price = round(value of item * buy price modifier * base price factor)

HagglingS = 1.10 at Rank 1, 1.15 at Rank 2, 1.20 at Rank 3, 1.25 at Rank 4, 1.30 at Rank 5. AllureS = 1.10

HagglingB = 0.91 at Rank 1, 0.87 at Rank 2, 0.83 at Rank 3, 0.80 at Rank 4, 0.77 at Rank 5. AllureB = 0.91

:Buying multipliers are the reciprocal of the respective selling multiplier, but rounded to two decimal places (a percentile). Do not use unrounded (untruncated) values, as it will yield incorrect results. (For example, at rank 2, HagglingB is 0.87. 1/1.15 is actually slightly less than 0.87, so using the full (untruncated) value may get you a lower-than-actual buying multiplier.)

* At 0 skill and no perks, the final price factor is 3.3 for buying and 0.303 for selling.
* At 15 skill and no perks, the final price factor is 3.10  for buying and 0.322 for selling.
* At 100 skill and no perks, the final price factor is 2 for buying and 0.5 for selling.
* At 100 skill and all haggling perks, the final price factor is 1.54 for buying and 0.65 for selling.
* At 100 skill and all perks, including Allure, the final price factor is 1.4014 for buying and 0.715 for selling.
* Trade price cap: (max sell price = value * 1.00), (min buy price = value * 1.05).

Skill levels over 100 have no effect.

===Investor===
Investing 500 gold into a business with the ''Investor'' perk immediately increases their current gold by 500. Investing is as simple as speaking to a merchant NPC and selecting the 'I want to invest in your business' option. This can only be done at the same time of day as they would normally allow sales.

All merchants who are available for investments are identified in the notes column on the [[Skyrim:Merchants|Merchants]] article.

==Skill Increases==
===Character Creation===
The following [[Skyrim:Races|races]] have an initial skill bonus to Speech:
* +5 bonus: [[Skyrim:Breton|Breton]], [[Skyrim:Nord|Nord]]

===[[Skyrim:Trainers|Trainers]]===
* [[Skyrim:Dro'marash|Dro'marash]] with the Khajiit Caravans (Common)
* [[Skyrim:Revyn Sadri|Revyn Sadri]] in Windhelm (Common)
* [[Skyrim:Ronthil|Ronthil]]{{DG}} in [[Skyrim:Volkihar_Keep|Volkihar Keep]] (Expert)
* [[Skyrim:Ogmund|Ogmund]] in Markarth (Expert)
* [[Skyrim:Giraud Gemane|Giraud Gemane]] of the Bards College in Solitude (Master)

===[[Skyrim:Skill Books|Skill Books]]===
* ''[[Skyrim:2920, Second Seed, v5|2920, Second Seed, v5]]''
* ''[[Skyrim:A Dance in Fire, v6|A Dance in Fire, v6]]''
* ''[[Skyrim:A Dance in Fire, v7|A Dance in Fire, v7]]''
* ''[[Skyrim:Biography of the Wolf Queen|Biography of the Wolf Queen]]''
* ''[[Skyrim:The Buying Game|The Buying Game]]''

===[[Skyrim:Free_Skill_Boosts|Free Skill Boosts]]===
* +1 Speech reward (as well as +1 to all other Stealth skills) from [[Skyrim:Inge_Six_Fingers|Inge Six Fingers]] ([[Skyrim:Bards_College|Bards College]]) for completing the quest [[Skyrim:Finn's_Lute|Finn's Lute]].
* +1 Speech reward from [[Skyrim:Malur_Seloth|Malur Seloth]] ([[Skyrim:Winterhold|Winterhold]]) for completing the quest [[Skyrim:Some Light Theft|Some Light Theft]]
* +1 Speech reward from [[Skyrim:Ysolda|Ysolda]] ([[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]) for completing the quest [[Skyrim:Rare Gifts|Rare Gifts]]
* +2 Speech reward from [[Skyrim:Azzadal|Azzadal]] for jumping off of [[Skyrim:Bard's Leap Summit|Bard's Leap Summit]]. Jump from opposite the [[Skyrim:Word Wall|Word Wall]] in [[Skyrim:Lost Valley Redoubt|Lost Valley Redoubt]] off the bridge that extends over the waterfall for Azzadal to appear.
* +5 Speech reward (as well as +5 to all other stealth skills) by selecting "The Path of Shadow" from the [[Skyrim:Oghma_Infinium|Oghma Infinium]] after completing the quest [[Skyrim:Discerning_the_Transmundane|Discerning the Transmundane]].

===Gaining Skill XP===
* Trading with [[Skyrim:merchants|merchants]] will increase the Speech skill. The amount of skill progress gained is based on the actual value of the item, rather than the amount for which it is bought/sold. Skill progress is not limited by the merchant's available gold.
:However, if you trade multiple units of an item at the same time, you will only gain experience equivalent to trading a single unit; for optimal leveling, sell each item one at a time and sell expensive items (e.g. if you have 89 plates and you want to maximize skill gain, you must sell them one at a time instead of all together; it's important to note that you do NOT need to press Esc to exit the merchant's trading window then talk to him again for every plate you have to sell—you should sell them all in a single "transaction", but one at a time).
* Fortify Speech and Barter allow for more items to be purchased for a given amount of gold, which increases skill gains.
* Successful Persuade, Intimidate, and Bribe attempts in conversations will also increase the skill.
* Barter with skill trainers that sell items (trainer-merchants). At higher levels (51 and up) buying 5 training sessions from a trainer-merchant will cost a minimum of 8,200 gold. This will temporarily buff the amount of gold that the trainer-merchant has on hand by the amount of gold used for training sessions. Then you can sell items to the trainer-merchant. At the highest levels you can trade 28,000 worth of items in a single visit if you have saved a level up prior to training (this allows 5 training sessions, a level up, then another immediate 5 sessions). This can require a lot of gold on hand and you should avoid allowing the trainer-merchant to accumulate more than 32,767 gold due to [[Skyrim:Merchants#16bitGold|a bug]] with merchant banks.
* One method for those who have a very large amount of money is to don your best haggling apparel (e.g. Guild Master's Hood and a Necklace of Haggling), go to the local fence and sell/rebuy your most expensive weapons (e.g. a pair of Legendary Blades of Woe) repeatedly until your skill increases to the desired level.{{vn|section=The_sell.2Fbuy_loop_of_an_expensive_item_does_not_work}} As you will lose money (the amount varies based on perks and equipment) with every sell/buy cycle, the merchant will end up with a vast quantity of gold if you continue the exercise for long enough. At this point you can sell all your more expensive items (i.e. those items which will normally cost the merchant most of their gold) as well as any others to the merchant until they are back down to 0 gold, or you have run out of items to sell.
* One way to train this skill without spending money is to commit a [[Skyrim:Crime|crime]] with a very low bounty, such as trying to pick a lock one time or stealing an item with a value of less than 10 gold. When your bounty is 5 gold or less, guards may ignore such crimes unless you speak to them. In dialogue, you may get a Persuasion option for the guard to overlook your crime. If you fail the persuasion check with such a low bounty, the guard may ignore the crime anyway. By speaking with and persuading every guard you encounter (except the one who witnessed the crime), your Speech will go from 50 to 100 in 10-15 visits to the town. A bounty of 10 gold may be too high to use this technique. Take note, however: this requires at least 53 Speech (with the Persuade perk) to work; alternately, if you have the gold to spare, you can bribe the guards repeatedly for the same benefit. {{vn|plain}}
* The Fortify Restoration or Fortify Alchemy/Enchanting [[Skyrim:Glitches#Infinitely_Powerful_Items|exploit]] can be used to acquire items of extremely high value, which when sold will grant immense boosts to the Speech skill.
* Speech is one of two skills which has a different Console ID than the name, the other being [[Skyrim:Archery|Archery]]. The actual Console ID for Speech is <code>Speechcraft</code>. For example, the Console code for improving Speech is <code>AdvancePCskill Speechcraft <var><#></var></code>.
* There are some quests that can repeatedly persuade NPC by exiting the dialogue after the persuasion and before quest stage advances. For example, [[Skyrim:No News is Good News|No News is Good News]], [[Skyrim:The Black Star|The Black Star]], [[Skyrim:Buy Dwarven artifact|Buy Dwarven artifact]], and [[Skyrim:Hard Answers|Hard Answers]].

== Achievements ==
[[Skyrim:Achievements|Achievements]] related to the Speech skill are:
* {{achievement|Snake Tongue}}

==Dialogue==
When you reach a high level in this skill, guards will sometimes comment:
*''"Don't think you can barter with me like I'm one of those damned shopkeepers."''
*''"Heard about you and your honeyed words."''

==Notes==
*Although the favor quests [[Skyrim:Gather Wheat|Gather Wheat]], [[Skyrim:Chop Wood|Chop Wood]], and [[Skyrim:Mine Ore|Mine Ore]] pay you and improve the dispositions of their quest givers, you won't gain any Speech XP for completing them. In addition, the amount of money you'll make for doing them is fixed, regardless of how high or low your Speech skill is.
**Likewise [[Skyrim:Quest all Beggars Have|Quest all Beggars Have]] and [[Skyrim:Quest all Drunks Have|Quest all Drunks Have]] also improve the disposition of their quest givers, but also don't give you any Speech XP for completing them.

== Bugs ==
{{Bug|The Investor perk may prevent merchants you invest with from receiving the extra gold properly.|OSP|1.9}}
{{Bug|Raising a merchant's gold to 32,768 triggers [[Skyrim:Merchants#16bitGold|an integer overflow bug]]. It will continue to allow you to sell your items, but you will not receive any gold.|confirmed=1}}
** To reset, wait the 48 hours for an inventory refresh. You can also save, attack the merchant, and load; this refreshes their inventory, and is much faster.
{{Bug|Some of the merchants may "forget" that you invested in their shop and lose the option for having extra buying gold. This appears to affect female alchemy merchants much more than male merchants or merchants of general goods stores (e.g. Angeline's Aromatics in Solitude will never remember an investment).|USKP|1.1}}
{{Bug|Selecting the ''Fence'' perk may allow you to sell stolen goods to any merchant, not just those you have invested in as the perk description states.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|When resetting your Speech skill, you still retain your ability to invest in merchants, without having to have that perk or having a speech skill high enough to be able to get this perk. This is also true for ''Master Trader''—all related merchants will still have 1000 more gold even after you lose the perk.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|When resetting your speech skill, you still retain the bonus to persuasion from the persuasion perk}}
{{Bug|You can repeatedly persuade Ungrien to tell the truth about Maven Black-Briar, and increase your Speech skill. This works all the way up to 100.|OSP|1.9}}
{{Bug|If you invest 500 gold into the [[Skyrim:Riverwood Trader|Riverwood Trader]] (using the Investor perk), regardless of if it's operated by Lucan Valerius or Camilla, it adds 10,000 gold instead of 500 gold to their inventory.|OSP|1.9}}
{{Bug|Each rank of the Haggling perk delivers inconsistent results on prices. Specifically, Rank 1 only gives you a 9% discount when it should be 10%. Rank 2 only gives you a 13% discount when it should be 15%. Rank 3 only gives you a 17% discount when it should be 20%. Rank 4 only gives you a 20% discount when it should be 25%. Rank 5 only gives you a 23% discount when it should be 30%.|USKP|1.2.6|The purchase prices were using incorrect decimal values to produce the expected discounts.}}
**All of the selling bonuses on these perks are correct regardless whether you have the patch or not.
{{Bug|Dwemer Scrap Metal is not classified as ores or ingots by merchants, and therefore cannot be sold to blacksmiths or jewelers without the Merchant perk.|USKP|2.0.5}}
**This bug is also fixed with version 1.6.1130 of the [[Skyrim:Special Edition Patch|Official Skyrim Special Edition Patch.]]
{{Bug|Some merchants on [[Skyrim:Solstheim|Solstheim]] can incorrectly prompt you with dialogue that's used by [[Skyrim:Fence (merchant)|Fences]]. There are none on the island, unless you invest in [[Skyrim:Glover Mallory|Glover Mallory]] with the Fence perk active.|UDBP|2.0.8}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:The Black Star|The Black Star]], the persuade option to tell Nelacar that a priestess of Azura sent you always fails without the [[Skyrim:Amulet of Articulation|Amulet of Articulation]] because the persuasion check is done against his Speech skill, rather than your own.|USKP|1.1}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:Recipe for Disaster|Recipe for Disaster]], you can exit dialogue with Anton Virane before telling him he needs to die, then restart the conversation and intimidate him over and over again, for unlimited Speech experience.|USKP|1.3.2}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:Dampened Spirits|Dampened Spirits]], you can exit out of the conversation with Sabjorn right after the persuasion check, allowing you to restart the conversation and it offers a chance to repeat the check indefinitely and train Speech.}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:Stabilized|Stabilized]], Sapphire has speech options, but none of them perform the proper checks to see if you could succeed. This makes persuading her always succeed by default, no matter what level of Speech you have.|USKP|2.0.4}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:A Night To Remember|A Night To Remember]], the bribe option with Senna doesn't advance your Speech skill due to a missing property.|USKP|2.0.4}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:The Forsworn Conspiracy|The Forsworn Conspiracy]], if Margret survives, her persuasion option doesn't advance your Speech skill due to a missing property, regardless if you pass or fail.|USKP|2.0.4}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:The Lover's Requital|The Lover's Requital]], intimidating Lynly doesn't lower her disposition towards you.|USKP|2.0.4}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:Buy Dwarven artifact|Buy Dwarven artifact]], you can exit the dialogue with Calcelmo right after the Persuade/Intimidate speech check before advancing the quest stage, then restart the conversation and ask him again, for unlimited Speech experience.|USKP|2.0.5}}
{{Bug|During [[Skyrim:The Taste of Death|The Taste of Death]], the persuade option to have Brother Verulus follow you to [[Skyrim:Reachcliff Cave|Reachcliff Cave]] always fails without the [[Skyrim:Amulet of Articulation|Amulet of Articulation]] because the speech check is done on him, rather than yourself.|USLEEP|2.0.9}}
{{Bug|Allure only provides a 9% bonus when buying items instead of a 10% bonus as is stated in the description.|USLEEP|3.0.11}}
{{Bug|Investor perk dialogue does not use the correct condition checks to determine the amount of gold you need to be able to invest.|USSEP|4.2.4}}
{{Bug|The speech check for the gate guards at Riften may always succeed due to a bad dialogue condition and/or mismatch in the latter.|USSEP|4.2.5}}
{{Bug|When resetting your speech skill, you permanently lose the ability to bribe guards to ignore crimes, even if you re-acquire the perk.}}

{{Skyrim Skills}}

</noinclude>

Skyrim:Trainers

2026-05-17T10:59:05Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3560406 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{Trail|Services}}{{#local:noSkillIcon|1}}
[[File:SR-npc-Amren.jpg|thumb|right|Amren, a trainer]]'''Trainers''' can provide lessons that increase your [[Skyrim:Skills|skill]] level in their area of expertise in exchange for gold. You may train up to five times per level. Trainers cannot raise skills past 90 -- you must earn the last ten points by using the skill, reading skill books, or obtaining quest rewards.

Unfortunately, you cannot save these "trainer points". If you didn't use a trainer in previous levels, you missed those opportunities. After leveling up, you'll get five new "training points", but "training points" from previous level will be gone if not used. This is problematic at lower levels or for new players, who lack the gold to train or can't access the locations of the trainers they desire. Thus, before leveling up, you should consider training with a trainer to use up the remaining "training points" for the current level. Alternatively, remind yourself to train right after leveling up.

{{NewLeft}}
==Trainers==

[[File:SR-icon-Basic Trainer.png|Common]] - Common (0-50), [[File:SR-icon-Advanced Trainer.png|Expert]] - Expert (0-75), [[File:SR-icon-Master Trainer.png|Master]] - Master (0-90)

{| class=wikitable
!width=22|Lvl|| Trainer || Location ||Other Services
|-
!colspan=5|[[Skyrim:Alchemy|{{Anchor|Alchemy}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Alchemy|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Lami|Lami]]
|[[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]]
|Merchant (Apothecary)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Alchemy|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Arcadia|Arcadia]]
|[[Skyrim:Arcadia's Cauldron|Arcadia's Cauldron]] in [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]
|Merchant (Apothecary)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Alchemy|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Milore Ienth|Milore Ienth]] {{DB|par=1}}
|[[Skyrim:Raven Rock|Raven Rock]] {{DB|par=1}}
|Merchant (Apothecary)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Alchemy|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Babette|Babette]]
|The [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary|Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary]] or [[Skyrim:Dawnstar Sanctuary|Dawnstar Sanctuary]]; you must join the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] to use her services
|Merchant (Apothecary)
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Alteration|{{Anchor|Alteration}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Alteration|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Dravynea the Stoneweaver|Dravynea the Stoneweaver]]
|[[Skyrim:Kynesgrove|Kynesgrove]]
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Alteration|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Tolfdir|Tolfdir]]
|[[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] to receive training from him
|Spell Merchant (Alteration)
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Archery|{{Anchor|Archery}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Archery|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Faendal|Faendal]]
|[[Skyrim:Riverwood|Riverwood]]
|Follower
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Archery|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Aela the Huntress|Aela the Huntress]]
|[[Skyrim:Jorrvaskr|Jorrvaskr]] in [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Companions|Companions]] to receive training from her
|Follower
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Archery|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Niruin|Niruin]]
|[[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (place)|Thieves Guild]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]] to receive training from him
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Archery|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Sorine Jurard|Sorine Jurard]] {{DG|1}}
|[[Skyrim:Fort Dawnguard|Fort Dawnguard]] {{DG|1}}; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard (faction)|Dawnguard]] {{DG|1}} to receive training from her
|Merchant (General)
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Block|{{Anchor|Block}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Block|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Njada Stonearm|Njada Stonearm]]
|[[Skyrim:Jorrvaskr|Jorrvaskr]] in [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Companions|Companions]] to receive training from her
|Follower
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Block|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Chief Larak|Chief Larak]]
|[[Skyrim:Mor Khazgur|Mor Khazgur]]; you must be [[Skyrim:Blood-Kin|Blood-Kin]] to receive training from him
|
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Conjuration|{{Anchor|Conjuration}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Conjuration|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Runil|Runil]]
|[[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Conjuration|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Phinis Gestor|Phinis Gestor]]
|[[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] to receive training from him
|Spell Merchant (Conjuration)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Conjuration|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Falion|Falion]]
|[[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]], inside [[Skyrim:Falion's House|his house]]
|Spell Merchant (General)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Conjuration|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Talvas Fathryon|Talvas Fathryon]] {{DB|par=1}}
|[[Skyrim:Tel Mithryn (tower)|Tel Mithryn]] {{DB|par=1}}
|Spell Merchant (General) / Follower
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Destruction|{{Anchor|Destruction}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Destruction|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Wuunferth the Unliving|Wuunferth the Unliving]]
|[[Skyrim:Windhelm |Windhelm]], [[Skyrim:Palace of the Kings Upstairs|Palace of the Kings Upstairs]]
|Spell Merchant (General)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Destruction|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Sybille Stentor|Sybille Stentor]]
|The [[Skyrim:Blue Palace|Blue Palace]] in [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]]
|Spell Merchant (General)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Destruction|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Faralda|Faralda]]
|The [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]], usually in the [[Skyrim:Hall of Countenance|Hall of Countenance]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] to receive training from her
|Spell Merchant (Destruction)
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Enchanting|{{Anchor|Enchanting}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Enchanting|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Sergius Turrianus|Sergius Turrianus]]
|[[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]], within the [[Skyrim:Hall of the Elements|Hall of the Elements]] or the [[Skyrim:Hall of Countenance|Hall of Countenance]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] to receive training from him
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Enchanting|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Hamal|Hamal]]
|[[Skyrim:Markarth|Markarth]], usually found in the [[Skyrim:Temple of Dibella|Temple of Dibella]]; you must complete [[Skyrim:The Heart of Dibella|The Heart of Dibella]] to receive training from her
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Enchanting|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Neloth|Neloth]] {{DB|par=1}}
|[[Skyrim:Tel Mithryn (tower)|Tel Mithryn]] {{DB|par=1}}
|Spell Merchant (General)
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Heavy Armor|{{Anchor|Heavy Armor}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Heavy Armor|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Gharol|Gharol]]
|[[Skyrim:Dushnikh Yal|Dushnikh Yal]]; you must be [[Skyrim:Blood-Kin|Blood-Kin]] to receive training from her
|Merchant (Blacksmith)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Heavy Armor|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Farkas|Farkas]]
|[[Skyrim:Jorrvaskr|Jorrvaskr]] in [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Companions|Companions]] to receive training from him
|Follower
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Heavy Armor|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Isran|Isran]] {{DG|1}}
|Inside [[Skyrim:Fort Dawnguard|Fort Dawnguard]] {{DG|1}}; you must join the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard (faction)|Dawnguard]] {{DG|1}} to continue to receive training from him
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Heavy Armor|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Kuvar|Kuvar]] {{DB|par=1}}
|[[Skyrim:Bujold's Retreat|Bujold's Retreat]] {{DB|par=1}} or [[Skyrim:Thirsk Mead Hall|Thirsk Mead Hall]] {{DB|par=1}}; you must complete [[Skyrim:Retaking Thirsk|Retaking Thirsk]] {{DB|par=1}} to receive training from him (don't tell him the truth)
|
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Illusion|{{Anchor|Illusion}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Illusion|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Atub|Atub]]
|[[Skyrim:Largashbur|Largashbur]]; you must complete [[Skyrim:The Cursed Tribe|The Cursed Tribe]] to receive training from her
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Illusion|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Drevis Neloren|Drevis Neloren]]
|[[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]], within the [[Skyrim:Hall of Countenance|Hall of Countenance]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] to receive training from him
|Spell Merchant (Illusion)
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Light Armor|{{Anchor|Light Armor}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Light Armor|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Scouts-Many-Marshes|Scouts-Many-Marshes]]
|The docks outside of [[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]]
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Light Armor|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Grelka|Grelka]]
|[[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]] Market from 8am to 8pm, stays at [[Skyrim:Haelga's Bunkhouse|Haelga's Bunkhouse]] at night
|Merchant (General)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Light Armor|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Nazir|Nazir]]
|The [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary|Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary]] or [[Skyrim:Dawnstar Sanctuary|Dawnstar Sanctuary]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]] to receive training from him
|
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Lockpicking|{{Anchor|Lockpicking}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Lockpicking|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Ma'jhad|Ma'jhad]]
|[[Skyrim:Ma'dran|Ma'dran]]'s [[Skyrim:Khajiit Traders|Khajiit caravan]]—travels between [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]] and [[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]]
|Merchant (Fence)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Lockpicking|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Vex|Vex]]
|[[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]]
|
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:One-handed|{{Anchor|One-handed}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|One-handed|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Amren|Amren]]
|Wanders inner [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]] during the day, near the market at 6pm
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|One-handed|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Athis|Athis]]
|[[Skyrim:Jorrvaskr|Jorrvaskr]] in [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Companions|Companions]] to receive training from him
|Follower
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|One-handed|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Chief Burguk|Chief Burguk]]
|[[Skyrim:Dushnikh Yal|Dushnikh Yal]]; you must be [[Skyrim:Blood-Kin|Blood-Kin]] to receive training from him
|
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Pickpocket|{{Anchor|Pickpocket}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Pickpocket|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Silda the Unseen|Silda the Unseen]]
|[[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]], outside of [[Skyrim:Candlehearth Hall|Candlehearth Hall]] or [[Skyrim:Blacksmith Quarters|Blacksmith Quarters]]
|Beggar (Blessing of Charity)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Pickpocket|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Vipir the Fleet|Vipir the Fleet]]
|[[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (place)|Thieves Guild]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)|Thieves Guild]] to receive training from him
|
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Restoration|{{Anchor|Restoration}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Restoration|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Aphia Velothi|Aphia Velothi]] {{DB|par=1}}
|[[Skyrim:Raven Rock|Raven Rock]] {{DB|par=1}}
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Restoration|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Colette Marence|Colette Marence]]
|[[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (place)|College of Winterhold]], inside [[Skyrim:The Arcanaeum|The Arcanaeum]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:College of Winterhold (faction)|College of Winterhold]] to receive training from her
|Spell Merchant (Restoration)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Restoration|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Keeper Carcette|Keeper Carcette]]
|The [[Skyrim:Hall of the Vigilant|Hall of the Vigilant]] within [[Skyrim:The Pale|The Pale]]: if you have ''[[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]]'' installed, she will be killed when the Hall is destroyed by vampires, which occurs when you reach level 10.
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Restoration|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Danica Pure-Spring|Danica Pure-Spring]]
|[[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]], [[Skyrim:Temple of Kynareth|Temple of Kynareth]]; you must complete [[Skyrim:The Blessings of Nature|The Blessings of Nature]] to receive training from her
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Restoration|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Florentius Baenius|Florentius Baenius]] {{DG|1}}
|[[Skyrim:Fort Dawnguard|Fort Dawnguard]] {{DG|1}}; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard (faction)|Dawnguard]] {{DG|1}} and complete [[Skyrim:Bolstering the Ranks|Bolstering the Ranks]]{{DG|1}} to receive training from him
|Merchant (Apothecary)
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Smithing|{{Anchor|Smithing}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Smithing|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Ghorza gra-Bagol|Ghorza gra-Bagol]]
|[[Skyrim:Markarth|Markarth]]
|Merchant (Blacksmith)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Smithing|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Balimund|Balimund]]
|Riften, just outside [[Skyrim:The Scorched Hammer|The Scorched Hammer]]
|Merchant (Blacksmith)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Smithing|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Eorlund Gray-Mane|Eorlund Gray-Mane]]
|[[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]], at the [[Skyrim:Skyforge|Skyforge]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Companions|Companions]] to receive training from him
|Merchant (Blacksmith)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Smithing|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Gunmar|Gunmar]] {{DG|1}}
|[[Skyrim:Fort Dawnguard|Fort Dawnguard]] {{DG|1}}; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard (faction)|Dawnguard]] {{DG|1}} to receive training from him
|Merchant (Blacksmith)
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Sneak|{{Anchor|Sneak}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Sneak|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Khayla|Khayla]]
|[[Skyrim:Ri'saad|Ri'saad]]'s [[Skyrim:Khajiit Traders|Khajiit caravan]]—travels between [[Skyrim:Markarth|Markarth]] and [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Sneak|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Garvey|Garvey]]
|[[Skyrim:Markarth|Markarth]]
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Sneak|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Delvin Mallory|Delvin Mallory]]
|[[Skyrim:The Ragged Flagon|Ragged Flagon]]
|
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Speech|{{Anchor|Speech}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Speech|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Dro'marash|Dro'marash]]
|[[Skyrim:Ahkari|Ahkari]]'s [[Skyrim:Khajiit Traders|Khajiit caravan]]—travels between [[Skyrim:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]] and [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]]
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Speech|Common}}
|[[Skyrim:Revyn Sadri|Revyn Sadri]]
|[[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]], [[Skyrim:Sadri's Used Wares|Sadri's Used Wares]]
|Merchant (General)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Speech|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Ogmund|Ogmund the Skald]]
|[[Skyrim:Markarth|Markarth]]
|Bard
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Speech|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Ronthil|Ronthil]] {{DG|1}}
|[[Skyrim:Volkihar Keep|Volkihar Keep]] {{DG|1}}; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Volkihar Vampire Clan|Volkihar Family]] {{DG|1}} to receive training from him
|Merchant (General)
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Speech|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Giraud Gemane|Giraud Gemane]]
|The [[Skyrim:Bards College|Bards College]] in [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]]
|
|-
!colspan=4|[[Skyrim:Two-handed|{{Anchor|Two-handed}}]] Training
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Two-handed|Expert}}
|[[Skyrim:Torbjorn Shatter-Shield|Torbjorn Shatter-Shield]]
|[[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]]
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Two-handed|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Fura_Bloodmouth|Fura Bloodmouth]] {{DG|1}}
|[[Skyrim:Volkihar_Keep|Volkihar Keep]] {{DG|1}}; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Volkihar Vampire Clan|Volkihar Family]] {{DG|1}} to receive training from her
|
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Two-handed|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Vilkas|Vilkas]]
|[[Skyrim:Jorrvaskr|Jorrvaskr]] in [[Skyrim:Whiterun|Whiterun]]; you must be a member of the [[Skyrim:Companions|Companions]] to receive training from him
|Follower
|-
|{{Service Icon|Trainer|Two-handed|Master}}
|[[Skyrim:Wulf Wild-Blood|Wulf Wild-Blood]] {{DB|par=1}}
|[[Skyrim:Skaal Village|Skaal Village]] {{DB|par=1}}
|
|}

== Notes ==
* Sometimes it is beneficial to use only part of the total training allotment for each level. Because training counts towards the next level progression, training too much may cause the player to skip one or more levels, essentially wasting those training sessions. Saving the game before training can allow the player to train the maximum number of times without going over.
* The best time to train a skill, to provide the maximum increase to your overall character level, is when you have leveled up to the next level.
* A number of NPCs can provide the player with free training by completing various quests and objectives. These training sessions do not count toward your current level's number of sessions used.
* The list of trainers in the ''[[Books:The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Prima Official Game Guide|Prima Official Game Guide]]'' incorrectly identifies several people as trainers: [[Skyrim:Ahkari|Ahkari]] (Pickpocket), [[Skyrim:Hermir Strong-Heart|Hermir Strong-Heart]] (Heavy Armor), and [[Skyrim:Melaran|Melaran]] (Alteration) do not provide training. Given that these skills do not have a common level trainer, it is possible they were meant to be trainers at one point.
** The factions and class of [[Skyrim:Ra'zhinda|Ra'zhinda]] imply that she was at one point meant to be an Expert Lockpicking trainer, but she does not offer any training in the final game.
* The cost for having a skill trained is calculated using the below formulas, based on your current skill level (not the level you are going to). [[Skyrim:Commerce#Price_AdjustmentsEffects|Price adjustment effects]], such as speechcraft level, persuasion level, and enhancements such as [[Skyrim:Fortify Persuasion|Fortify Persuasion]] and [[Skyrim:Fortify Barter|Fortify Barter]], do not affect trainers' rates.
** For advancement of skills less than or equal to 50:
*** '''''n(10b + 5n + 45)'''''
** For advancement of skills greater than 50:
*** '''''n(30b + 15n + 35)'''''
** For advancement of skills greater than 75:
*** '''''n(50b + 25n + 25)'''''
** Where '''''n''''' is the number of times you wish to train and '''''b''''' is the ''current'' level of the skill. E.g.: If you wish to train a particular skill from level 20 to 50 (''b'' = 20 and ''n'' = 50-20 = 30) the combined cost (250+260+270+...+540) would be '''''30(10*20 + 5*30 + 45) = 11850'''''.
* One session of training gives exactly one whole level's worth of XP to a skill. This XP benefits from [[Skyrim:Sleeping|Sleeping]] and [[Skyrim:Standing Stone|Standing Stone]] bonuses.
** With a [[Skyrim:Guardian Stone|Guardian Stone]] active and a Well Rested bonus, you will receive 25% extra XP from relevant skill training. In other words, one training session will grant 1.25 level's worth of XP. Note that the training session itself will not award a bonus level--you must manually level the skill up once the XP bar is nearly full. Any "overflow" XP will be lost.
** The maximum XP bonus obtainable for a single skill would be a Guardian Stone, the Lover's Comfort rested bonus, and the [[Skyrim:Aetherial Crown|Aetherial Crown]] equipped with [[Skyrim:The Lover Stone|The Lover Stone]] for a total of +50% XP. This would grant an extra 2 skill levels of XP for every 5 sessions trained.
* If you are ready to level up, but do not do so, the "Times Trained This Level" stat, accessible through the Journal, will not reset.
* If you attempt to train 6 times or more without leveling up, a "You must level up to train more." message will appear on the top left of the screen.
{{Bug|Trainers that double as followers can train you for "free". They will still charge you, but you can get back the gold you spent by checking their inventory.|USKP|1.2.6|The patch makes the exploit no longer possible.}}
* All trainers put the gold you pay them into their personal inventory. If they are also [[Skyrim:Merchants|merchants]], then the gold in their personal inventory is added to the gold they use to barter with. However, most merchants have a cap on their personal gold which is put into effect when you enter their stores, so if you leave the store and come back later, the gold will have disappeared. Notable exceptions to this are the merchant trainers added by the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]] add-on.
* The [[Skyrim:Pickpocket|Pickpocket]] skill can be abused to obtain virtually free training from any Trainer in the game. Simply take one level of training and then steal the gold back for a "free" level of training. Note that this will increase the Pickpocket skill extremely quickly, causing the player to potentially over-level and miss some levels of training. At higher levels and with the Cutpurse perk, 2-3 levels worth of gold can be stolen back at a time. Though keep in mind that the cost of training a skill above level 50 and 75 thresholds greatly increases, making it severely harder to steal back the gold. Since Pickpocket is completely based on chance with little to no interaction between the player and target, it is advised to save before each attempt at pickpocketing. Even a Master Pickpocket always has at least a 10% chance of being caught.
* If you side with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard (faction)|Dawnguard]] and become a vampire later, the Fort Dawnguard trainers won't offer training until you [[Skyrim:Rising at Dawn|cure yourself]]. Likewise, if you side with the [[Skyrim:Volkihar Vampire Clan|Volkihar family]] and [[Skyrim:Rising at Dawn|cure yourself]] later, the Volkihar Keep trainers won't offer training until your vampirism is restored.
* [[Skyrim:Curate Melita|Curate Melita]]{{CC|Ghosts of the Tribunal}} is supposed to be a [[Skyrim:Restoration|Restoration]] trainer and does have a conversation about that, but you can never receive training from her, even with a low Restoration skill.
* Some trainers will continue to offer the dialogue option to train even if you've passed the skill level at which they can train you. Choosing this dialogue option in these circumstances will cause them to say things such as ''"You already know all that I know."''

== Bugs ==
{{Bug|If you have an active Fortify Skill effect, the cost of training will appear to be for the increased skill. However, the trainer will only take the price for training at your actual skill level.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|If a skill has some progress toward its next level, the training progress bar will fill and then empty. However, checking the Skills menu shows the initial progress was not lost.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|If a skill is at 0% progress to its next level before you start training it, a purchased level may fail to actually increase the skill even though you paid for it and it used up one of your five training opportunities This appears to be because training does not add all of the experience needed to fill up the bar completely, so the bar will not fill up sufficiently to trigger a skill increase in one training session if it is completely empty.|confirmed=1}}
**{{pc22}} You can use, for example, <code>advskill block 1</code> to get your proper Block level.
{{Bug|If you load a character which has used trainers since last leveling, and then quit to the main menu and start a new game, the game does not clear your new character's training stat and if you seek to use a trainer at level 1, you will be told that you have used however many training sessions the previously loaded character had used.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|While Gharol offers expert training in Heavy Armor, the dialogue to do so becomes unavailable once the player's Heavy Armor skill reaches 50 or above.|OSP|1.9.26.0.8}}
{{Bug|Torjorn Shatter-Shield wields a one-handed weapon in combat despite being an Expert Trainer of Two-handed and being more proficient in that skill.}}
{{Bug|Fura Bloodmouth wields a one-handed weapon in combat despite being a Master Trainer of Two-handed and being more proficient in that skill.|UDGP|1.2.0|She now wields a two-handed weapon to match her skill proficiency and trainer status.}}
{{Bug|Isran wears light armor despite being a Master Trainer of Heavy Armor.|USLEEP|3.0.6|His outfit now uses heavy armor versions of his previous gear.}}
{{Bug|Kuvar wears light armor despite being a Master Trainer of Heavy Armor.}}
{{Bug|Not all skill trainers consistently offer training topics or refusal dialogue for when the player can no longer train with them.|USKP|2.1.3}}
{{Bug|The bug fix from Unofficial Skyrim Patch 2.1.3 was incomplete as it overlooked a major issue. Parts were left behind due to a CK error and the response order scrambling that came with it.|USLEEP|3.0.1}}
{{Bug|One of the edits for Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch 3.0.2 caused the CK to shift the order of 2 sneak training and 1 lockpick training options in the dialogue. This made them inaccessible entirely.|USLEEP|3.0.2a}}
{{Bug|The bug fix from Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch 3.0.1 was incomplete as Ra'zhinda was left out. This would still cause her dialogue line to say that you already know as much as she does.|USLEEP|3.0.4|This was likely a side effect of corrections made with Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch 3.0.1.}}

Skyrim:Asta

2026-05-17T10:58:52Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3560399 by 209.93.81.41 (talk) nope

{{NPC Summary
|essential=
|respawn=yes
|loc=
|race=Nord
|gender=Female
|class=[[Skyrim:Bandit (class)|Bandit]]
|faction={{Faction|dunEldergleamFaction}}
|refid=00015CC5
|baseid=00015D2B
|image=SR-npc-Asta.jpg
|imgdesc=Asta, living a life of tranquility
|skills='''[[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]]''', '''[[Skyrim:Two-handed|Two-handed]]''', [[Skyrim:Block|Block]], [[Skyrim:Light Armor|Light Armor]]
|aggress=Unaggressive
|level=PC×0.5 (range=5-15)
|moral=No Crime
|health=35+(level-1)×11
|magicka=25
|stamina=25+(level-1)×4
|voicetype=FemaleNord
}}
'''Asta''' is a [[Skyrim:Nord|Nord]] worshipper of [[Lore:Kynareth|Kynareth]] who walks around in [[Skyrim:Eldergleam Sanctuary|Eldergleam Sanctuary]]. She wears [[Skyrim:Clothes#0003452e|clothes]] and a pair of [[Skyrim:Boots#0003452f|boots]], and is equipped with a leveled [[Skyrim:Dagger|dagger]] and a leveled [[Skyrim:Bow|bow]] with leveled [[Skyrim:Arrows|arrows]], all of which may be up to [[Skyrim:Elven|elven]] in quality. She also carries at least eight gold. Her only company during her worship of [[Lore:Eldergleam|Eldergleam]] is fellow worshipper [[Skyrim:Sond (bandit)|Sond]].
{{NewLeft}}
== Related Quests ==
* {{Quest Link|The Blessings of Nature}}
==Quest-Related Events==
===The Blessings of Nature===
When first spoken to:
:'''What is this place?'''
:''"You are in Eldergleam Sanctuary - just a small glimpse of what beauty Kynareth has to offer. Wonderful place, isn't it?"''
:'''And that tree? Is that Eldergleam?'''
:''"Yes, my friend. Though no one has been able to get close to her for as long as I can remember."''
:'''Why not?'''
:''"As you can see, Eldergleam's roots are large and stretch far, blocking any path to her trunk. Though, believe it or not, there are rumors of a [[Skyrim:Nettlebane|weapon]] that even Eldergleam herself would lift her roots for, more out of fear than respect."''

:'''Where can I find such a weapon?'''
::''"Oh, I don't believe those rumors, my friend. Besides, who would ever want to harm such beauty? Now, if you'll excuse me, I have nothing more to discuss. I encourage you to take your time and enjoy yourself. You look like you could use the rest."''

If you have Nettlebane:
::''"Oh, I don't believe those rumors, my friend. Besides, who would ever want to harm such... Wait, it can't be."''
:::'''What is it?'''
::::''"The rumors were true! You carry the one weapon Eldergleam fears - Nettlebane. I beg of you, don't harm the tree! Nothing good can come of it."''

:'''You mean this weapon? (Show Nettlebane)'''
::''"The rumors were true... I beg of you, don't harm the tree! Nothing good can come of it."''

If spoken to again if you have Nettlebane:
:''"You don't know what you're dealing with. There will be consequences if you harm that tree. Leave this place - you're not welcome here anymore."''

If you ignore her warnings, then Asta may be killed by [[Skyrim:Spriggan|spriggans]] after you pierce Eldergleam with Nettlebane.

==Dialogue==
Outside of the quest, her greetings can be:
:''"Amazing that such beauty could exist in a place as desolate as the volcanic tundra."''
:''"Praise Kynareth for allowing such beauty in the world."''
:''"A truly remarkable place, isn't it?"''

==Notes==
*For some reason Asta's line ''"Oh, I don't believe those rumors, my friend. Besides, who would ever want to harm such beauty?"'' was recorded in almost '''''every''''' single voice type in the game, including unique voice types. While only Asta's variant is set up to work in the game, all other recordings can still be found in the voice files.

== Bugs ==
{{Bug|If she is killed during [[Skyrim:The_Blessings_of_Nature|The Blessings of Nature]], her body will persist indefinitely due to missing stages in the quest script to track her death.|USKP|2.0.1}}
{{Bug|Despite being a unique NPC, she's incorrectly flagged to respawn in the game data.|USKP|2.0.1}}

User talk:PeaceAndLove

2026-04-05T05:38:38Z

Kiz: /* Show Preview */ new section

This is my talk page

== Welcome ==

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Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you would like to discuss the games or lore, consider checking out our [[UESPWiki:Discord|Discord]], [[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]], or [https://blog.uesp.net/index.php blog]. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]]. Lastly, thanks once again for joining the UESPWiki, and have fun! [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 09:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)</div>

== Show Preview ==

Hello and welcome to UESPWiki! Thanks for your interest in the wiki; however, you seem to have been making multiple edits to a page by not using the [[Help:Show Preview|show preview]] button, clogging up the [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent Changes]] in the process. We appreciate your enthusiasm, but keep in mind that each edit needs to be [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|patrolled]], so multiple consecutive edits create an unnecessary hassle on those who patrol. So please utilize this feature! You may also want to look over our [[UESPWiki:Style_Guide|style guide]] and [[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started guide]]. Feel free to [[UESPWiki:Contact|ask]] if you have any questions. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 05:38, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

UESPWiki:Community Portal

2026-04-05T04:19:50Z

Kiz: /* Proposal: On the (potential) de-listing of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (from gamespace) */ m

{{protection|move=full}}{{Trail}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Message Boards]]<div style="float:right;">{{Scrolling Archive Table|class=collapsible collapsed|height=225px|width=225px
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<table id="genMidColor" style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:
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;<big>Active Discussions</big>
Many discussions of community-wide interest are held on pages other than the community portal. Discussions about specific policies belong on the policy talk pages, for example. The following table lists other discussions that are currently in progress on other talk pages. If you start a discussion on another talk page, please add it to this list. If a discussion listed here has been inactive (i.e., no comments of any type in at least a week), please remove it from the list.

{| class="wikitable"
! Location !! Date started !! Topic !! Listed here by

|-
|}

== Port Starfield Place Logic ==

Currently NPCs have a "loc" field which is text and is typically a link to a location. There is a desire to build automatic "People" tables which are derived from data so that we move away from large templates to represent the people in a location. In Starfield wiki, there is a "In Place" template which populates the Metatemplate variables with information about the place, and then this data is pulled by the Starfield People tables.

The In Place template is used extensively in various summary templates (like NPC Summary, where it replaces the loc parameter), however it can be used independently if an NPC can appear in multiple places.

* [https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Template:In_Place In Place Template]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Autopeople Autopeople template, which uses the data]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Starfield:Cydonia_People&action=edit Example Usage]

While copying over this logic is very simple, migration of current NPC pages is a much larger task which will likely be mostly manual. For example, many NPCs only have their primary location on their summary page, however each location that they can appear (temples, inns, etc) will also have the NPC information on it. All of this data would need to be consolidated to the NPC table for the data to be consistent.

In addition to this, to have automated People tables, a "Services" parameter will need to be added to the NPC pages, however that is a much more minor change.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]])
: The notion of all of that information being duplicated as is sounds like a ringing endorsement for changing it so it's in only one place to me.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]])

::I think this makes sense - anything that reduces duplication is a good plan. Looks like "place" in the Starfield NPC Summary wraps the In Place template but is still overridden when "loc" is defined, so nothing would break immediately and we can take the time to decide which things do and don't need to be edited. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:57, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::In Starfield Wiki, I just kinda migrated one list of people at a time to have place and be auto-generated, until I ran out of lists to migrate. It was a pretty clean transition. Also added a category (Starfield-NPCs_Without_Place) to try to figure out where the rest were as many were not on any People lists. It certainly doesn't have to be some big "Do it quick as everything is broken until it's done" kind of transition.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]]) 21:39, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::: I don't like this suggestion as-is. The "loc" parameter is not strictly defined enough to be useable for auto-populating People tables. See for instance the [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online:Molag_Kena&oldid=3381525 rich formatting] on [[Online:Molag Kena]]. If we already need to add a "Services" parameter to pages for this to work, then we need a second, stricter location parameter as well. To me, that seems like too much work to replace what is currently there. I don't see any issue with manually populating our People tables as desired, particularly when most of our namespaces have a (fairly arbitrary) "People vs NPCs" distinction. Those tables are not hard to maintain and are pretty much static for the older games. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::I agree with Legoless. We should at least try this on the test wiki before implementing anything, particularly with regards to ESO: we distinguish between generic NPCs and non-generics. Generic NPCs don't go in the People table in Online articles, they're typically noted in the paragraph following the infobox. Additionally, the loc field is not a reliable place for us to be getting headers for People tables: some NPCs in towns and such have very specific and arbitrary locations, like "West of (CityName's Stable)". Like Legoless said, the rich text throws a wrench in there. It's often necessary rich text, too. We also can't just pull strictly from Online links in the loc parameter to sort NPCs under People table headings: some NPCs have stuff like "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" in their loc parameter. That's two Online links in the loc parameter: would the automated process try to put the NPC under both places, or make a new header? "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" is a very arbitrary and limited heading, and while we often do file NPCs under arbitrary and specific headings, it's much easier to manage them when People pages are created manually.

:::::ESO's People pages are also mostly finished: yes, new content is being developed yearly, but there aren't a lot of NPCs who need to be put on a people table at this point. Most of the legwork lies in putting the People tables from smaller locations like [[Online:Fharun Stronghold|Fharun Stronghold]] on their own pages. I do appreciate the effort to try and make things easier, but this could hurt more than it helps. If this were suggested earlier in ESO's lifespan, I'd have less objections to it, but at this point, it seems unnecessary to port everything like this when the system we already have works. —[[User:MolagBallet|MolagBallet]] ([[User talk:MolagBallet|talk]]) 15:31, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

== Item Redesign Project Proposal ==

Hello, I'd like to discuss a project I've worked on a little bit on my own, but would like to greatly expand and formalize a little. The Item Redesign Project would aim to fill in the largest gap remaining in UESP coverage of The Elder Scrolls as a whole, and the most requested area of coverage the UESP regularly receives from readers. This will also benefit the UESP itself by improving its SEO. Most of the pages that would be worked on or created for this project would help UESP be more easily found by people searching, as sites that don't have specific pages rank low compared to ones that do. We'd essentially be starting to compete for item page rankings finally.

The focus of this project will be documenting, expanding, improving, and creating pages related to items. There are multiple steps to this, and multiple things to consider.

The overall goal would be to move away from just having list articles, to having actual articles for items, along with maintaining and improving existing lists, while also creating more. Most of this work will be for Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO, but other games may be worth considering for this project.

===First Steps===
The first goal towards this will be a bot run to mark existing item pages as in the scope of this project, and considered for making sure it will match our site standards for items and standardize them. There will also be a series of bot run to create new start articles. I personally was against this recently, but an argument from Legoless really opened my eyes to why we should consider doing this. If we had made these pages years ago, we'd have had years worth of edits to improve upon them. If you (the UESP) build(s) it, they (editors) will come. There is just an extra degree of unwillingness for a person to create a page from scratch over improving an existing page. Take for instance [[Lore:Nerevarine]], an article about a fairly important character in Elder Scrolls lore, who did not have an actual lore page before last year. But after I decided to throw a blurb from [[Lore:Hero]] onto its own article, roughly 2k bytes of text, it has expanded greatly into 50k bytes of text. By simply creating an actual article, editors showed up who wanted that to be a better one.

So this means this process will ultimately involve:

*The creation of a project page for the Item Redesign Project
*Creation of a redesign template similar to previous ones for other redesign project (like [[UESPWiki:Oblivion NPC Redesign Project|OBNCRP]]).
*Creation of a [[UESPWiki:Style Guide|Style Guide]] page for items
*A series of bot runs to add the template to pages.
*A series of bot runs to create the new individual item pages.
===Item Page Improvement===
The ultimate goal of each indivdual item page will be:

*Provide a physical description of the item
*Take a picture of the item
*Present technical information (primarily through infoboxes)
*Have any enchanting-related information covered
*Cover any particularly unique strategies/options/features of the item
*Find and list any dialogue related to it
*Provide use information on the item (one existing example of this information can be found on [[Morrowind:Broom]] as an example)

I think this should ultimately create a high standard of content that is reasonably achievable by editors.
===List Pages===
[[File:MW-item-War Axes.jpg|thumb|right|An example of a group image, useful for a list page]]We can also provide improvements for list pages, primarily by identifying gaps in what people might want for list articles. For example, there was not a list for [[Oblivion:Longswords|Longswords in Oblivion]] and a few similar topics until the recent work of Eve and Leopard. These definitely make sense as a target for lists, and there are certainly more like these out there still. One other example comes from [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild Armor Set]], which I created towards trying to present a high quality page that lists all relevant information related to an item set. It provides images of the set, how to acquire it, a condensed table with info on the set, common info related to all items, and then the individual pages for each item of the set. I think this would be a good standard for any similar set of equipment in the mainline games.

In general, I think the steps towards improving list pages would include:
*Identifying missing list pages that may be desirable
*Providing general information about the list (for example, providing UESP editor written descriptions for [[Morrowind:Base Weapons]] instead of just using NPC quotes)
*Providing unique image(s) for the list (like a group set for whole sets of items similar to Morrowind efforts)

===Some Existing Pain Spots===
I also think some focus should be given to some existing pain spots. For example something that I would see as part of this would be the individual item pages for [[Online:Furnishings]]. A tremendous amount of fantastic work has been done to get these pages as documented as they are, and it is by itself one of the single biggest segments of the UESP Wiki making up almost a fourteenth of the UESP's existing page count. One of the main ways these pages could be improved is by having editors help add prose descriptions to them. Virtually every ESO furnishing has an image and infobox, but not a physical description of the item written. One step towards this could be another botrun providing a very basic description, hopefully indicating to people that one is desired. For example, one suggestion provided by The Rim of the Sky:

''<x> is a <size> <type> furnishing item in the <category> category. It is available from <main source> and other sources.''

This should be doable by a botrun. A further one written by a human is still desirable, here is an example I put together on [[Online:Petrified Watcher]].

The other major existing pain spot to my knowledge is the individual item pages for Blades. It's nice that Blades is as documented as it is, but we should be able to do a similar bot run for these items as well, and likewise getting human touch ups for the actual description. I did a few tests, [[Blades:Chaurus_Helmet_(divine)|one example]], that may be considered for both developing the bot run text as well as a minor example of human-based additions that could improve these pages.

===Final Thoughts===
This will ultimately be a very big undertaking, but starting this project will be worth it to finally fill in one of the last major gaps of UESP coverage. It will also be one of the most truly substantial bumps we can give ourselves on the SEO front. This proposal will hopefully serve as a good starting point towards the standardization of item pages, as well as for discussion about this proposed project itself. Obviously any insight or suggestions from any editors would be greatly appreciated, and I hope this is a project that the UESP will want to take part in!

One of the bigger considerations for a very significant amount of the work on the project is related to the bot side of this. I have spoken with a few people ([[User:Daveh|Daveh]] and [[User:RobinHood70|RobinHood70]]) about assisting with this project via data pulls and bot runs, and both gave pretty hopeful answers about potentially assisting us in getting those done. Use data for Morrowind, for example, has already been created, and similar bot runs have been performed before. This will give this project a decent head start towards its final goal.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you wish to join this project! --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:35, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:I have long been in support for individual item pages and fully support this proposal. Despite what some have suggested I believe it is genuinely much more helpful and not simply a means of "competing" with other wikis. It is such a useful thing that can be helpful in giving more detailed descriptions of locations and other data that I have occasionally been forced to use other wikis for when our lists weren't adequate. Of course another helpful thing will be having images of individual items. Many times have I found myself needing a picture of a specific weapon or armor piece only to see that it only exists in a group picture.
:Anyways, I digress, I support the proposal! - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 04:43, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::I'd like to add my support as well, individual item pages would be great! --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 04:50, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I'm onboard with this project. I think it has merit, even if it's not how things have been done in the past. Anything we can do to add more content, without hindering usability, should be seriously considered. The SEO side of this shouldn't be understated; if it's going to make an appreciable difference, then it needs to happen. The scope is large, but that doesn’t necessarily make it unmanageable.
:::*A focused project design page that lays out clear examples and provides the groundwork for necessary templates and transclusions will be crucial to its success.
:::*Page creation will also need to be a key focus. Having a good base page so that those without knowledge of the project page can add information without their work going to waste is important. This will help reduce the overall work those that do know about the project may have to do. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 05:05, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::: I have long been in favour of individual item pages for the reason mentioned above by AKB: by failing to create them, we have lost out on years of crowdsourced help with tackling this daunting task. Creating these pages has been a prominent suggestion from readers since our [[UESPWiki:Survey Results/Other Comments|2012 user survey]] at the earliest. I like UESP's existing item lists for navigation, but there's never been anything stopping us from simply adding item links to those existing tables.

::::: On the above proposal, I do feel it isn't necessary to have a dialogue check on every item page when 90%+ will not have any relevant dialogue associated with them. We had discussions in the past on where best to document dialogue (quest vs NPC pages), and I think we settled on NPC pages as the home for dialogue / dialogue checks. It's an extra piece of work for editors to confirm "no" on thousands of items. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:39, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::Sounds good to me! Proper descriptions, images and location information I think would be the main reader benefit. For list pages, ideally we would be able to pull info to them from the individual pages with things like <nowiki>{{#listsaved:}}</nowiki> rather than duplicating the info on multiple pages. Regarding dialogue specifically, I also don't really think that would be necessary unless it's something like the Savant quote from Morrowind which talks about that item specifically. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:30, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I just want to say that I fully support this project and the ideas that have been presented so far. Although I don't have any suggestions, I too believe that it would vastly improve how item information is presented compared to the current format, and I look forward to seeing how this project progresses. —[[User:Leopard|Leopard]] ([[User talk:Leopard|talk]]) 14:54, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I support this project and absolutely hope and pray there will be at least a base templated sentence we can input for Furnishings, as this is a huge section as stated above. At one time, I had dreams of making each furnishing page quite robust, but not everyone had been in favor of it. Thankfully, more editors are starting to help fill in these gaps and the oft-underused sections of the Online Furnishing Summary template can now be used! '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 16:13, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} While I agree with the need for separate item pages for useful items (weapons, armor, decorations, etc), I want to call out one set of items that I believe should NOT get separate pages. ESO Contraband Items I do not believe would be helped by having separate pages. We already do really well in this regard with our updated lists, and the items don't really have any additional information that the lists provide. One thing I think we CAN do better in this regard are better pages on the contraband TYPES. Which NPCs are the sources of which contraband types, information on likelihood of drops based on difficulty, etc. In addition, I don't think we need separate pages for each part of the ESO armor styles (i.e. we don't need a separate page for Altmer Style Shoulders, Altmer Style Belt, etc.) The existing pages for Styles could be improved, namely by moving the pictures of the entire outfit from the gallery into the lead (or into the infobox maybe). There might be other types of items where a separate page doesn't really make sense, but I'd have to look into it. Off the top of my head, having separate pages for, say, Rubedite Ore and Rubedite Ingots, or for some of the junk items in ESO. The MMO nature of the game, I think, changes things for many of these item types. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:11, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:Oh yes, I 100% agree ESO should be more of an exception due to the way the game works. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 17:22, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::A much needed change. Before I edited the wiki I was a frequent user, and it was one of my common complaints that individual item pages did not exist. Like Jeancey mentioned, some exceptions should exist.[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 01:13, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

:: I support the change, certainly helpful for many item lists, but I do agree, that some lists such as eso's contraband should stay the way it is.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 13:16, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

::: From an seo standpoint, every item should have its own page. Google lists us lower or even will list the wrong page when we don't have that. I've posted examples in the discord before. List pages aren't going away, but there's nothing wrong with having the info in both a list and on a page. This also allows for us to add more info like pictures of locations, maps where the items can be found, etc. [[User:Eckserah|Eckserah]] ([[User talk:Eckserah|talk]]) 16:13, 12 July 2025 (UTC)

== Honorary Featured Status -- Julian LeFay ==

Julian LeFay has passed away. While it is not normal procedure, I would like to propose that we grant his article honorary status as a featured article and bump it to the front page immediately. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:40, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
: I'm all for this. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:: Seconding this, the page has enough content but hopefully we can improve it in any way we can to better honor him. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::: I agree, there are few who've had as much of an impact on these games as he had and it would be a neat way to honour him. [[User:Theolaa|Theolaa]] ([[User talk:Theolaa|talk]]) 05:00, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::: Yes, of course. RIP [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 05:32, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::: Agreed.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 09:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Agree [[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 10:16, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Agree.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:52, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Featuring it now on the front page sounds like a great idea. I'm not sure what you mean by "honorary featured status", but whether or not it fits the quality of a Featured Article should be decided later, at a time when it can be considered fairly against the criteria, so it should not be categorised or starred as a Featured Article. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:03, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: I agree. In whichever way it should be done. But at the least, immediately. '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 14:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::: Agreed. [[User:The Entity|The Entity]] ([[User talk:The Entity|talk]]) 14:44, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Please do it. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 14:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} The [[Main Page/Featured Article|featured article]] has now been changed to Julian LeFay. Would we also like to change the Featured Image to [[Lore:Julianos|Julianos]], who was named after Julian? I would vote we display the [[:File:MER-art-The Hierophant.jpg|tarot card art]] for that, since this would be an honorary FI and the tarot card can't usually be nominated due to standard FI rules, the card itself having some really great artwork. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:23, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, sounds fitting -- [[User:SarthesArai|SarthesArai]] [[User Talk:SarthesArai|Talk]] 19:09, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:: +1 to snowball the Julianos FI. 20:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

::: +1 Julianos FI, but I might pick the TES2 statue instead since that was Julian's game. But either would be lovely. --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 21:24, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} Both the FA and FI have now been updated in honor of Julian, and will remain this way for at least the next month.
It is good that we are able to pay tribute to him like this, as I don't believe many of the more casual TES fans even knew who he was. His death didn't get a lot of coverage outside of TES circles either. As the creator of one of the most popular video game series and influential fantasy worlds of contemporary times, he should definitely get more credit for his legacy, and I don't feel like just one month is enough. I would like to propose that we also update some of the site logos and wordmarks to have the subtitle "In Memory Of Julian LeFay (1965 - 2025)" or some variation of it, similar to how the Ben 10 Wiki honors one of the show creators annually in their wiki wordmark:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/e/e6/Site-logo.png/revision/20240701050232 (Check [https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Site-logo.png file history] in case link is broken)

We can put this right under the "Elder Scrolls Pages" part of our main logo. Along with [[General:Vijay Lakshman|Vijay Lakshman]], [[General:Ted Peterson|Ted Peterson]], [[General:Christopher Weaver|Christopher Weaver]], Julian is one of the few people who can be credited with co-creating the franchise this wiki is based on. In the words of Bethesda Christopher Weaver, ''"If I’m credited with giving birth to The Elder Scrolls, then Julian deserves credit as the one who fathered it."'' He still had more ideas he wanted to share on the Wayward Realms and was taken from us too soon. I propose that we add this to the wordmark until at least the end of 2025 so that more people can remember him and learn just how much he did for the series. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 20:00, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

:I'd be for the idea absolutely. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 20:06, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

::I would suggest the [[MediaWiki:Tagline|Tagline]] and maybe the [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]], rather than the logo. That would work better for screen readers as well, which can't read text if put in an image. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:39, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::Hmm, something else we could do is grab the Julian LeFay entry from [[Main Page/Did You Know|Did You Know]] and take it out of the random selection so it's permanent, rather than part of the cycle. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:50, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

::::As a reader of the UESP, in my opinion Sitenotice would be the least invasive option while also not modifying the branding like the "Your source for The Elder Scrolls..." blurb. Messing with the logo wouldn't be ideal in my opinion since the text already on it is hard to clearly read on some smaller devices as it is since its colors blend into the logo like they do already. More text on the logo would just make it look more cluttered and muddy in my opinion. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 13:35, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I think putting the LeFay entry in the DYK blurb for the rest of the year could be a good move. I'm not on board with Sitenotice as a substitute since its purpose is in the name of being a Notice, any "notice" related to this would be the news article, unless we know what to link in the notice like say [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefay-passes-away-at-59 Imperial Library's touching tribute] I don't think its the best option. Tagline is also minimal since the font is tiny and most people just tune it out of their purview, so while I don't see it as a substitute I could see us doing something with it as well. Any concerns about the colors on the logo are solved by just making it white text with a black outline, and any concerns about it being small could be solved by making increasing the font size. Its not really about putting in everyone's face, its about modifying something consistent and sitewide to honor someone who was very important to us to show just how much they meant. We're still working on some logo mock-ups but we should have some options ready soon. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Suggestion to ban the usage of ai text generation for lore articles. ==

As we all know we are in the age of AI generation where AI has come along way and given there has been people, using ai for stuff in lore pages. With one user admitting to such in the altmer lore talk page. This could become problematic if its not addressed, its one thing to use ai for correcting grammar but to write lore page sections. I feel it like, downgrades the integrity of the uesp. So I recommend a total ban on using ai for such purposes and having a rule against the usage of ai. This spoken from a user that uses toolbarz website to generate my own ai stories but I have not once used ai to write stuff on lore articles or the uesp, using ai stuff on ones own user pages or fanfiction pages is fine but not on lore articles. There is a place for ai but I think people should be the main contributors not robots when it comes to informantion placed on lore pages. Since I've seen no sign of such a suggestion, I'm adding it in.[[User:TheVampKnight|TheVampKnight]] ([[User talk:TheVampKnight|talk]]) 01:40, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:I agree with banning the use of AI to write articles. Using AI to spellcheck is one thing, but using AI to write original prose is a big no. Right now it is nowhere near advanced enough to write about TES lore with accuracy. On top of that, the flow of AI writing never sounds natural. A lot of AI usage is also theft, since AI only knows how to copy and rearrange things, not create anything of substance. It has no place on wiki articles. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 01:53, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::AI, like Daedra, cannot create, only imitate, so I vote "strictly no AI slop in wiki content namespaces". [[User:DaExile|DaExile]] ([[User talk:DaExile|talk]]) 02:02, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::: I think we need to follow Wikipedia's (draft) policy on [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AI-generated content|AI-generated content]]: "Because of the pervasive presence of [LLMs] in everyday tools it is not possible to ban it entirely", but "[p]ersistently introducing computer-generated content in violation of Wikipedia policies and guidelines will be considered disruptive editing and can lead to a block from further editing."

::: The problem is that we have no way to know if someone is using AI to generate content as opposed to format/reword/spellcheck their own work. If an editor is continuously adding slop or hallucinated info to articles, we can treat it like any other form of disruptive editing. It's just one more thing we need to be conscious of when checking new edits. Unfortunately, it's a tricky one to spot. One of the telltale signs (like on [[Lore:Altmer]]) is the addition of massive amounts of well-written prose, often containing misinformation or poor/inaccurate citation. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:13, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::: Fully on board to ban it. Even if it can be hard to tell sometimes, it should be fully purged when detected. And when we have proof of a user using it (such as admitting to it) action should be taken. Removal of the AI generated prose and the usual warning into action system the UESP admins take would sound fair to me. Furthermore though, whilst I know we currently know of at least one user using AI generation, retroactive action should not be taken against them. Only if it continues. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:29, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I disagree, not because I think AI usage is good, but I think we already have policies in place that police the bad behavior that AI causes. We have rules against blatantly false information in articles, like AI hallucinations. We have standards of grammar and spelling. We have standards that articles should be easily comprehensible. I just don't see how "AI is now banned" is really useful in any way, when all of the things that AI does poorly are already covered by existing policy. However, but banning it, we run into problems with assuming good faith, when one person claims another user is using AI and the other user claims they aren't. How do you PROVE they are using AI, or are just bad/inserting headcanon into articles (which is, again, already against our policies). This is a situation where it seems like a good policy, but then doesn't really have any impact at all. We shouldn't be adding policies just to make ourselves feel like we are doing something. There just isn't a real problem here. One user used AI but we've already been dealing with it under existing policies. If that user continues to use AI (or otherwise add in blatantly false information), there are ways to deal with that, up to and including blocking that user from the wiki for repeatedly adding false information to the wiki.

:::::I just don't see what the problem is that this policy is trying to solve. We just don't have a rash of AI edits that wouldn't otherwise be not okay under existing policies... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:50, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::A first step will be to officially declare our policy to be against it so no one unknowingly somehow thinks it's a good idea. Beyond that, we should indeed want to err on the side of inaction. We don't want to witch hunt AI text or erroneously accuse people of it just because they like em dashes or something. But yeah, if they admit it, if they have no defense for bad info, etc., I'm all for removing any such edits with a sledgehammer.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:04, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I'm more in line with the views of Jeancy and Legoless here. There is very little we can do to know that it is generated content and also remain true to assume good faith. I personally also think that soon this kind of generation will be indistinguishable from human writing and any policy will be impossible to police. I know it's not a very popular opinion but AI is here, it's not going away, and it's only going to get better faster than anyone is ready for. The only path forward from my point of view is a path that outlines the responsible integration of human assisted AI generated material and not outright bans. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 19:00, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I also think banning it outright is impractical since it's not really enforceable. While articles ideally shouldn't include AI generated content (not just lore articles, any articles), I think Wikipedia's (draft) policy is still enough, as it already covers the core issues - biased, not verifiable, poor quality, inaccurate - and we don't really need to say any more than that. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:32, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::I agree with Legoless that we should largely use Wikipedia's policy. Regardless of how enforceable the policy is, we definitely need a formal rule against AI writing so that we can ensure that it is not encouraged from here on out, and so that we can remove any writing confirmed to be AI-written instead of having to keep proofreading and editing it into something salvageable. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Verified Creation Psuedospace Consolidation and potential Namespace ==

As previously discussed [[Project:Community Portal/Archive 60#Change to Verified Creation Namespace Initials|here]], there had been talks to change up the naming system for Verified Creations. It looks like we previously settled on just doing three letter prefixes, as seen with Blood and Snow (ie. a file named [[:File:BaS-npc-Rakoslod.png|BaS-npc-Rakoslod]]). However, an issue with this is that there's now a lot more Verified Creations than there were before, so much so that they're getting pumped out at a faster rate than we can come up with Psuedospaces for them. Another issue is that its hard to find these images in one place, as they all start with different prefixes. Its dysfunctional for each mod to get its own prefix when the Skyrim DLCs don't even have that any more. I propose we add VC5 in front of each of these photos so that they can more easily be searched up. They can keep the psuedospace prefix as well if desired, such as the aforementioned file which would be renamed to <code>VC5-BaS-npc-Rakoslod</code>, but going forward we would no longer have to invent and decide on a psuedospace suffix for every new VC (ie. if there's a Verified Creation that's very small in content we could just name the file "VC5-npc-Gary" if we feel like that's all it requires and call it a day, instead of the ''need'' to invent a new prefix). We would only have to come up with new psuedospaces if we find that a VC is big enough to benefit from one.

The current tally of VCs per year (8 in 2023, 50 in 2024, and 100 in 2025 so far) comes out to roughly 158 VCs total since the program launched. Each VC has different content, but they are all tied together by being part of the Verified Creator Program. Do we also want to give Verified Creations their own namespace, similar to Better Cities and Tamriel Rebuilt? Or do we just want to keep them in Skyrim Modspace? [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 23:56, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

:I think a proper Skyrim Verified Creations space would be a good way to corral them all. One downside to using multiple prefixes that I would anticipate is that a lot of files are going to be incorrectly named. Having them in one place to verify will be helpful. Additionally, seeing as how there are 100+ this year alone, agreeing on psuedospace prefixes is going to become tedious at best or simply ignored without any consensus. I'm not saying I am opposed to pseudospace prefixes; they will be great to help identify what VC they belong to. I think we should get an official consensus here on how to name them going forward so that the process is avoided. Something like use the first 3 letters of each word in the name and if there are not 3 words then some alternative solution. The same goes for what happens if multiple would have the same prefix. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 01:21, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::Given the sheer volume we're dealing with, it will quickly become hard to find unique 3-letter prefixes that actually represent the creation in question (as opposed to simply assigning random codes). Best to reserve them for the larger ones.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Regarding pseudospaces in general, that was agreed during the creation of the Modspace Project to be all or nothing to ensure consistency; i.e. all mods get pseudospaces, or none do, otherwise we have double standards. (My preference would still be for none, but the consensus in the previous discussion was for all.) For as long as VC5 stays in SRMod, I think that consistency needs to remain, but if VC5 had its own namespace, then we could theoretically define a separate standard for that namespace.

:::On file prefixes specifically, which are related but separate to psuedospaces, I would suggest the same thing I suggested last time - VC5 and three additional characters. That removes any potential conflict with future releases and gives us over 17500 unique IDs. But that doesn't mean every pseudospace has to have a prefix anyway. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:12, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::On a somewhat related note, I think we're violating the spirit of modspace anyway by having so many red links and landing pages for all these VCs without actually documenting any of the content. We're a wiki, not a database - we don't need to be duplicating all the description pages that already exist on BethNet, we need to be detailing the content and gameplay, otherwise there's no point. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:22, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Being incomplete violates nothing. But yes, I think I get what you mean to say. We want more content like [[Skyrim Mod:Spelltome Craft|Spelltome Craft]] and less that is either absent or a stub that has no unique info of great merit. That said, the list itself is of great use to many since Bethesda's own ways to list the program's offerings are ... lacking.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{Edit Conflict}} I'm neutral on keeping psuedospaces, just as long VC5 is used to start all file names that would be the most important thing. The psuedospaces add a small benefit of making them easier to categorize so as long as we don't make them a requirement and more of an optional thing, they could work. As for the pages themselves, we shouldn't be duplicating descriptions and just leaving the pages like that, they definitely need editing and to have at bare minimum intros added to them. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 21:49, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::The [[UESPWiki:Mod|Modspace Guidelines]] literally say that we're supposed to document content, not delivery. If the above number is accurate, we have documented delivery of some 150 mods, while we only have details of content for about 20. Meanwhile, 92 are redlinks and don't even have their own pages. At what point would it be considered a violation of those guidelines? They certainly aren't "content-focused" at the moment if less than 15% of the documentation actually includes any content. Anything we're documenting should at least have a landing page like [[Skyrim Mod:SWIFT|SWIFT]], [[Skyrim Mod:The Forgotten City|The Forgotten City]], [[Skyrim Mod:ESO Imports|ESO Imports]] or [[Skyrim Mod:Wyrmstooth|Wyrmstooth]].

::::::Note that I'm only arguing for parity here - if we are now saying that it's acceptable for less than 15% of modspace to actually include documentation of mods' content and for more than 50% of mods listed to not even have their own articles, we'll rewrite the guidelines to that effect and continue creating a list of redlinks for free mods as well (which someone has already been doing), even if we never expect them to have any content documentation. Alternatively, if we follow the guidelines as intended, any redlinks on both lists should be deleted until such a time as someone actually starts documenting that mod. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 00:42, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Never. We have a drastically different interpretation of those guidelines. Nothing I see there even begins to suggest deleting redlinks to make site content even less complete. And again, even if much of the page is redlinks we merely hope will be fleshed out in time, that alone has frequently proven to be extremely useful and popular. Someone with access to view numbers can help provide data here if desired. Further, these redlinks have successfully proved to be helpful prompts for others to build the associated pages, especially since the list is semi protected. So perhaps those guidelines should be addended in such a way that reiterates our more clearly stated policy that perfection is not required and the fundamentally iterative nature of the site as a whole.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:56, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Agreed. Primarily it's the "Completing Articles" guideline that is the issue here, and I would be very happy to take that out and/or completely reword it to encourage iterative improvement over time, rather than suggesting that we ideally need to plan out a complete article from the start to avoid indefinite stubs. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:38, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

== Please undelete this page: Lore:Fascist ==

I'm [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides]]. I lost my password in a recent incident involving my password manager, leaving me logged out of my account. This is not the reason I am making this post. I noticed a mistaken deletion of a page, Lore:Fascist, within 18 hours of creation. This was not in line with the 7 days required under the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Policy]] for proposed deletion. This isn't just a deletion — this is an unexplained removal of information from UESP wiki. I hope we can fix this error by undeleting [[Lore:Fascist]] as soon as possible. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 11:07, 13 August 2025 (UTC)
:Administrators are allowed to delete pages before the typical 7 days if they feel the page is vandalism, nonsense, or similar, so I believe that's why it didn't stay up for the full 7 days that the Proposed Deletion tag normally requires. While the page is neither vandalism nor nonsense per se, it does feel like a forced attempt to introduce the concept of fascism where it's virtually non-existent in the game. Even when creating the page, you were only able to find a single in-universe instance of the word and one out-of-universe example. That's not really worth creating a Lore page for in my opinion.

:If you feel like you can flesh it out to the point where it might merit becoming a Lore page, I'm willing to restore it and move it to a subpage of your User page, but that's about as much as I'd be willing to do, personally. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

:: As I explained [[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides#Lore:Fascist|here]], the deleted article contained little of substance, and your previous account's edits seem more like an attempt to insert real-world political science into articles than a genuine effort to document fascism in TES lore. Another seven days would not have improved the case to retain such a page. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

::: RobinHood70, I appreciate your offer. While I revise the page — incorporating feedback to build consensus — I’d be glad for you to move and subpage Lore:Fascist as needed. Consensus matters to me, which is why I’m disappointed by the push to shut down discussion that could have occurred over those seven days. It’s odd — and counter to wiki principles — to assume no one might weigh in during that time. These discussions should have happened on [[Lore talk:Fascist]]. Nonetheless, I understand that editors feel that Lore:Fascist might have too little content. I hope to rework it into a larger, broader, subject page once it is restored and undeleted. Thank you. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 07:05, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::My issue is that it would be hard to even turn into a large page without speculation or overly relying on real-world comparisons. I think the page could exist only if it was a tiny stub given its only mentioned once. And at most maybe applies to a group through dev comments. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 13:23, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Agreed. I don't know what the content of the page was, but I don't see how a lore page can be created based on a single throwaway line of dialogue from a single quest that you can only hear with a certain disposition value. The whole point of a lore page is to explain a concept, and there is nothing here to generate a concept which can then be explained. If the NPC had instead said ''"That welxist pig killed those people"'', would we create a Lore:Welxist page, despite knowing nothing of that concept beyond that single line? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:37, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Yeah I don't see much in the way of value being added by restoring this page. Keep it deleted. This is a real-world topic that can easily be justified as being a direct English translation for our sake as the player, rather than an actual term in-lore and in Tamrielic languages as a concept. Without any other content to cover, this page serves little purpose except to act as a potential lightning rod for controversy and edit wars. [[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 15:38, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I concur that the page should have been deleted. We could have started a talk page about it, but the discussion on it would likely go the same way this portal post is going right now. While I'm not inherently against the concept of a page about fascism, the fact that there's so little info on fascism (or political ideologies in general) within TES means that there's no way to write an actual article about it without massive amounts of speculation and connecting the dots with stuff that is subjectively fascist. Its like creating "Lore:Genetics" based on a few mentions of geneology; irl concepts like biology don't necessarily fit as a main backdrop in TES. If there was more info from the games on it, then I might have been on board, but since there isn't we don't really have any option but to have deleted that page. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:14, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} I also agree that it was right to delete the page, but in the interests of offering Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II a chance to prove it can be brought up to Lore page standards, I've restored it to [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II/Fascist|a sandbox]]. I'm using [[Lore:Sex]] as a guideline here. I was extremely sceptical of that page when it was first created, but it's become more than I ever would have imagined, so I think it's only fair to give the same breadth to this topic. That said, I urge any editors working on it to be very careful with what content they add to it. I can see the potential for the topic to go south very quickly, and if it does, I imagine it'll be summarily deleted again. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:58, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: This content has effectively been restored by placing it on [[Lore:Government]] and turning [[Lore:Fascist]] into a redirect. I have proposed the article for deletion as it doesn't address any of the concerns raised above and remains a speculative shoehorning. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

::I think a potential page on Government has some merit, but the section of fascism specifically doesn't, especially in its current form. There's nothing in TES suggesting that the one source was referring to a form of fascist government existing in the Empire, if you look at the real world definition of fascism it is a poor fit. But the word "fascist" has multiple definitions. As the edit in question can't escape, there isn't even an establishment of a relation to government without bringing in real world information, instead relying on the fact that the word was used as an insult once as the entire basis of its presence there. If you look at the [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism dictionary definition] "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control" makes a lot more sense in the context then the primary meaning "a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition".

::A fully developed page on Government in TES could possibly mention the single usage of the word fascist in a note section, but I think that's the extent of it that would be appropriate considering existing sources. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 11:39, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

== Mod Copyright Templates ==

While looking at some recent uploads I came to the thought that our current set of copyright templates don't seem to cover mods very well. It's very probable that a mod author doesn't want their creations just under creative commons, and mod elements also for the most part incorporate or are entirely based off of existing Elder scrolls content so it should most likely mention that it is still property of Bethesda. With that in mind we probably need licensing templates of some sort for mod projects. It'll allow us to fill in in case a mod author is declaring copyright on their mod.

One case that this would cover for example is the [[Beyond Skyrim:Concept Art|Beyond Skyrim concept arts]], which from what I can see are being uploaded under CC2.5 but are marked as being under [https://beyondskyrim.org/project/elsweyr copyright by Beyond Skyrim on their own website]. It'd be an improvement for us to say those images are copyright of Beyond Skyrim I believe, and I'm sure there are other examples like this on UESP.

Bringing this up here in case there are other gaps in the copyright templates that I haven't thought up that would deserve consideration. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 03:54, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: Sometimes I'm asked by mod authors to upload images for Verified Creator Program releases before they're publicly published on Bethesda's site. So the license choice of it being an image from a Bethesda web site is not yet accurate and I just leave it blank because the option you just described is missing.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:05, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For Eve's specific example of being asked to upload images by the author, I think that's just {{tl|Usedwithpermission}}, or a variation of it. For other mod images, I think we may want to distinguish between in-game screenshots taken by UESP editors, and images created directly by the mod author, as we do everywhere else. For images created by the author, we probably want a Fair Use variant which says something like:
:: ''This image was taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod, the copyright of which is held by the mod author(s). The use of such images is believed to fall under the fair dealing clause of Canadian copyright law.''
:: For screenshots, we probably want something like:
:: ''This image was created for use on UESP using components taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod. The copyright for the components is held by the mod author(s), while the copyright for this particular composition is held by UESP. It is available for use under the same Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License as our text content.''
:: We can add into that whatever extra info about Zenimax/Bethesda if necessary, but at the same time I don't want to conflate ownership, as Zeni/Beth only own the base game, not the unique composition created by the mod author. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:08, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

::: Thanks. I see that under the "Other" section and will use that in such cases going forward.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

== Grammar Concerns ==
I recently added an official mod summary to the [[Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]] page that had a grammar error. Immediately recognizing the error, I used the sic template to note that the text appeared as the author typed it and should not be corrected until and unless the official summary itself gets fixed. This was simple. This was routine. This was not expected to be controversial. However, another editor removed the template insisting that the incorrect grammar was actually correct. An edit war ensued where they misquoted grammar rules. It then went to the page's talk page where it got little attention. Then I gave up and left it without the template. Similar happened not long after, though, when I added needed images to [[SI:Grakendo Udico]]. This put the page on my watchlist, so I noticed when its correct grammar was changed to be incorrect. This started another edit war with the same user. Worse, an apparent intent to cascade the error everywhere was presented when [[SI:The Fringe]] (also on my watchlist from a previous edit) was also updated by the same user to make the same change from correct grammar to incorrect grammar. I then raised the issue on our Discord in hopes of additional voices of reason helping to correct the user's understanding of English grammar rules [[https://discord.com/channels/261544750044282883/261887896930353155/1407950822196903959]]. Unfortunately, the result was not only far from what I hoped it would be but instead prompted such grave concerns that this portal post is merited. We, of course, honor intentional style choices made in the official material. We also recognize errors where they exist. We should not insist that errors are official style choices, even if they are common or frequent. We should not presume intent. Given the lack of an official declaration that the grammar error is intentional, the basic rules of English grammar should apply. I also hoped this point would not be controversial. It was. The arguments (which I frankly find preposterous) were instead made that "English has no hard rules", that "Proper names include things like pubs or newspaper publications, not geographic regions like the Fringe", and that we should intentionally propagate some assumed concept of Bethesda grammar as if it were an intentional choice rather than an obvious error to anyone sufficiently familiar with English grammar rules or referencing any widely accepted English style guide. In conclusion, the specific examples (a comma between verbs of a compound predicate, capitalization of articles in proper place names) need as definitive an affirmation as we can reasonably get. I don't think our own style guides require any modification as the suggested corrections simply bring the language in line with accepted norms; I should hope people don't need to be told to use sense and recognize an error as an error rather than thinking that just because Bethesda made an error that we should then make that same error wherever possible. Whether anyone then chooses to hunt down similar examples throughout UESP for the sake of instant consistency is up to them. I merely seek to correct the cases in point to serve as precedent and hope that this will result in correct usage gradually being applied as relevant pages are edited anyway.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 08:26, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: A few points:

: 1. '''Incorrect grammar''': This has been discussed at length before, but capitalising the definite article is only required when it forms part of a proper title. So, The New York Times or the [[Oblivion:The Merchants Inn|The Merchants Inn]], but not the Fringe or the Reach. Compare [[wikipedia:The Pale|the Pale]] (or even [[wikipedia:The Bahamas|the Bahamas]], supposedly an exception). Regarding the sic template, as I have [[Skyrim_Mod_talk:Verified_Creator_Program#Sic_Misuse|repeatedly pointed out]], the comma usage here is a (poor) stylistic choice and not a grammar error.

: 2. '''Inconsistency with source material''': The in-game dialogue and journal entries on both [[SI:Grakendo Udico]] and [[SI:The Fringe]] disagree with you. Both refer to "the Fringe" in prose, and UESP's capitalisation is inconsistent with that. As a general guideline, our [[UESPWiki:Spelling|spelling and capitalisation guide]] tends to follow what is seen in-game. If it was treated as "The Fringe" in ''Oblivion'', maybe you would have a case to disregard normal grammar rules for geographic place names. Alas, this is not so.

: 3. '''Consensus''': The sic removal did not get "little attention", it received a comment from one additional user who opposed the overzealous use of a sic tag. From looking at the discussion on Discord regarding the Fringe capitalisation, three additional users attempted to correct you on current consensus and accepted grammar for this and similar cases. Yours is clearly the minority position here, i.e. to ignore precedent, in-game spelling, real world grammar rules, and site-wide consistency in the pursuit of carving out "The Fringe" as an exception to the rule.

: There is nothing wrong with [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Be bold|being bold]] and reverting what you perceive as a mistaken edit. However, these cases to me seem like an inability to accept correction. Having a 3-hour-long Discord discussion about it followed by a Community Portal post is unnecessarily disruptive to what should have been a minor grammar improvement. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:02, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::Ultimately this change will require us marking upwards of thousands of instances of things like "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", and so on as sics. This goes against UESP's existing style guide, in relation to the text on [[UESPWiki:Spelling]] in particular: ''"The Elder Scrolls games use many unique words and names. The spelling of all Elder Scrolls words should match the spelling used in the game, even if that differs from the common English spelling."''

::This would also fall astray from the Manual of Style of Wikipedia, with us commonly referencing Wikipedia in gaps in our own coverage as a possible source. In relation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Capitalization_of_The MOS: CAPS Capitalization of The], I reference: ''"Do not ordinarily capitalize the definite article after the first word of a sentence; however, some idiomatic expressions, including the titles of artistic and academic works, should be quoted exactly, according to common usage."''

::This, when applied to our current practice, has us doing it correctly by following common usage.

::With both UESP's own style guide supporting our current position, and the Wikipedia MOS supporting it as well I would move onto one final point for why we shouldn't. This would cause extreme confusion among our readers seeing the extra thousand plus sics this would create, and would cause more fighting over sics then exists currently. It would both require a considerable amount of editor effort to make things consistent to this new standard, while only causing what I would perceive as a degradation of the quality of our content to the average user due to the increased confusion this would cause. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 09:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::: No one is saying "the" should always be capitalized. The rule is that it is capitalized when it is part of the name itself. The advocated behavior here is to adhere to the rule, which itself applies to exceptional names that include the article as part of the name, NOT to do something that is itself an exception to the rules in general. This "inability to accept correction" accusation works both ways. You may wish to avoid additional personal attacks and threats and try to address the actual issue at hand. And no one is questioning spelling. I don't know why spelling keeps being brought up. The cases in point are a comma and a capital T, not spelling. This is not a matter of opinion. People yelling loudly, repeatedly, and even vulgarly that their way is the right way without any relevant or credible citation is an abusive attempt at bullying, not a valid counter to the credible sources provided via Discord ([[https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/punctuation/commas/extended_rules_for_commas.html]] [[https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html]]). The argument that being correct is too hard is also absurd. Firstly, what's right is what matters—and what's right is often not what's easy. Secondly, to repeat, this does not need to be effected immediately sitewide; we simply need to set the record straight on what's right and what's wrong here to prevent the people that do make the edits—when and if they choose to do so—from undoing each other's work. The UESP style guide says nothing about the specific issues, leaving any reasonable person to understand that normal and basic grammar rules prevail. Wikipedia's current cited example of "the Bahamas" is an error. It's easy to find errors like this. That still does not make them right. Find credible and accepted direction that contradicts the credible and accepted direction already linked above, if you can, not additional examples of common error.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 10:05, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::: Eve, at this point the only person insisting their way is the sole correct one—against all style guides, in-game usage, and community consensus—is you. The Fringe is not the name of a country. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:54, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Quick summary for the rest of the community, because for a section titled "Grammar concerns", OP's content focused on how the alleged errors have been mis/handled without specifying the actual errors themselves; also, for everyone who can't be bothered to look up diffs and/or people like me who are not on Discord.

{|class="wikitable"
!Page and revision!!Text!!OP's edits
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3402135|Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]]
|Will you save her from the Forsworn, and help her write your epic?
|Will you save her from the {{sic|Forsworn,|Forsworn}} and help her write your epic?
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3405307|Shivering:Grakendo Udico]]
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|the Fringe]], she will be...
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]], she will be...
|-
|[[Shivering:The Fringe]]
|colspan=2|(What was the update "by the same user ... to incorrect grammar"?)
|}
And now that everybody else is on the same page about "a comma and a capital T", here's my two cents.

The first one seems to be just an Oxford comma on verb phrases. A stylistic choice perhaps, but not necessarily a grammatical error, let alone one that warrants a {{tl|Sic}}.

For the second one, I agree that the excerpt quoted by AKB above from [[UESPWiki:Spelling#General]] actually does apply to spelling, not capitalization. The relevant part is further down in [[UESPWiki:Spelling#Proper Names]]: ''"...cases where proper names begin with a definite (e.g. the) or indefinite (e.g. a, an) article. The article should be preserved if the proper name is used as a standalone noun and omitted if used as a modifier for some other noun..."''.

Thus, I don't see any problem with "When you arrive at The Fringe". As a matter of fact, in the page for [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]] itself, the description for many [[Shivering:The Fringe#Places within The Fringe|related places]] refer to it as "The Fringe". The intro blurb also mentions "The Shivering Isles" and "The Gatekeeper". So... I'm not sure I understand correctly what AKB refers to as "common usage" above (not throwing shade, I legit don't because I don't edit in the [[OB:Oblivion|OB]] and [[SI:Shivering Isles|SI]] namespaces much).

However, it is very important to note that in-game mentions of "the Fringe" do not constitute a grammatical error either. There isn't, and there shouldn't be, any call to add sitewide sics to "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", etc. especially when they're quoted from in-game dialogue or journal entries. I think we can recognize it's a slippery slope fallacy and that it should not be taken as support or opposition to either approach.

Lastly, from [[UESPWiki:Style Guide#Language]], ''"...capitalization follows standard English rules, {{Hover|emphasis mine|'''except'''}} in cases where a proper name or title comes from an Elder Scrolls game, in which case the game capitalization is kept. More specifics on spelling and capitalization, and clarification on in-game spelling variations, are provided at [[UESPWiki:Spelling|Spelling]]''. So... please understand why "spelling keeps being brought up".

TLDR: I believe (1) Oxford comma okay, no sic; and (2) "The Fringe" okay but "the Fringe" also okay if quoting in-game content. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 11:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: To me, the examples on [[Shivering:The Fringe]] speak to the lower quality of those older SI pages compared to the rest of the site. It is most definitely "[[Shivering:Haskill#Quest-Related_Events|the Gatekeeper]]" in all contexts. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Thank you, Salamangkero. The quoted examples, citation of our own policy confirming that the "definite ... article should be preserved", and citation of our policy confirming that our text "follows standard English rules" are all very helpful. Regarding the third example, I see now I have an error in my original post. It was actually the page "Retaking The Fringe", not just "The Fringe". It was effectively the same as the second edit, though. Beyond that, as per the rule cited by the same user themselves ([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma]]), the comma does not fit the definition as the definition requires the list to consist of at least THREE terms—not two. I also concur that citing examples of it being done the way one person considers right or wrong or vice versa is not particularly helpful—hence encouraging us to look at style guides that actually intend to prescribe correct usage. Also, regarding sic usage in general, it's my understanding that this applies ONLY when we're quoting anyway. Otherwise, the error should simply be corrected, not preserved (with or without annotation). As for our Gatekeeper friend, I don't know for certain if "The" is part of his name or not off the top of my head. I suspect it's not, so a lowercase "the" would be good here. The list of exceptions that actually include the article as part of the proper name is likely a very short list, all of which have probably already been mentioned just now in this section.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:36, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
:: And while I question if it's better to ignore such a crude comment, I'll respond for the record. "against all style guides": No, I'm advocating what every single style guide cited says to do; you're the one that keeps insisting otherwise with zero style guides backing up the approach. "against ... in-game usage": Some of it. It's inconsistent. And being in the game doesn't make it right. Hence the existence of the sic template in the first place. "against ... community consensus": I posted this hours ago, and we most definitely have not reached a consensus. "The Fringe is not the name of a country.": I agree. Also, no one said it was. Nor does it need to be. Any type of proper name that starts with an article counts.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I was not aware the Oxford comma had a 3-terms-and-above restriction. I learned something new today; thank you for that. I also offer an alternative: instead of a list of verb phrases like I initially claimed, consider it instead as [https://www.grammarly.com/blog/punctuation-capitalization/comma-before-and/#1 two independent clauses].

:::Point taken re: the examples being of lower quality / older. So I did a quick scan of [[UESPWiki:Featured_Articles/Old_FAs|Featured Articles]]:
:::*[[ON:Molag Bal]] mentions ''"...during [[ON:The Watcher in the Walls|The Watcher in the Walls]], [[ON:The Rat|The Rat]] informs you that..."'' and ''"...you are transported to [[ON:The Colored Rooms|The Colored Rooms]]."''
:::*[[SR:Serana]] has dialogue ''"When in The Reach"'' and ''"When in The Rift"''
:::*[[Lore:War of Betony]] mentions ''"...from Camaron's chief advisor [[Lore:The Oracle|The Oracle]], who reportedly..."''
:::*[[SR:Fishing_(activity)]] lists places ''"...east of the passage from [[SR:The Rift|The Rift]]."'', ''"...in front of [[SR:The Mortar and Pestle|The Mortar and Pestle]] and...'', ''"...next to the entrance to [[SR:The Warrens|The Warrens]]."'' and ''"Travel to [[SR:The Guardian Stones|The Guardian Stones]]..."''

:::The argument could be made that these are isolated errors; maybe, maybe not. However, I do think the current wording of the wiki's style guide leans towards preserving the capital "T" for in-game content that actually have "The" in their names. I believe, in the past, contributors have encountered dialogue / journal entries where a lowercase "t" was used to refer to "the Thing" and taken that as the norm. I think, over time, other contributors also followed suit until it became a de facto style, which is why arguments that appeal to "precedent" and "site-wide consistency" are brought up. However, [[UESPWiki:Consensus#When Consensus is Needed|Consensus]] guidelines specifically warns against ''fait accompli'' and I feel that using "community consensus" to shoot down attempts to clarify consensus is a bit underhanded.

:::However, the same [[UESPWiki:Consensus#Reaching Consensus|Consensus]] guidelines also recommends we ''"respect the wiki guidelines about civility"'' and ''"focus on the issue being discussed"''. I think it's obvious everyone views the comma and/or the capital T as completely trivial issues. Given that, everyone also expects a quick resolution then feels understandably frustrated when the discussion gets "unnecessarily" prolonged. People begin feeling aggravated, misunderstood or unheard; they may lash out, insinuating a misunderstanding of guidelines, an inability to accept feedback or just plain stubbornness. People become defensive, take things personally, create strawman arguments and respond to quotes taken out of context.

:::Might I suggest taking a breather and letting go of the need to reach (or enforce) a consensus "right here, right now"? Maybe 24 hours or even a couple of days? There might be some benefit if other contributors, who might be less emotionally-invested, could be given time to bring something new to the table. Perhaps the other participants in said Discord might also share their reasoning here?

:::I, too, would love for this to be uncontroversial but that boat has already sailed. For a supposedly trivial concern, the stakeholders have pretty strong feelings on what is right or wrong. We're here now; might as well use this space to have a civil discussion with the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 13:55, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you again. Well said. Treating it as two independent clauses doesn't work, though, since the second clause relies on the "Will you" at the beginning (and is thus dependent). Otherwise, the meaning would get changed into asking a question and then issuing a command which seems very unlikely to be the author's intent.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 14:38, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Our primary motivating factor is what the games do. By and large, such instances in the games has a lower case letter for the definite article when used in the middle of the sentence. In similar cases on wikipedia, they have also settled on the lowercase t for such instances, see for example [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters/Archive_34#Capitalization_of_The|this discussion on the Bahamas]]. English has no hard and fast rule on this, and many if not most American English speakers learned growing up to NOT capitalize the t in a definite article in the middle of a sentence except in very specific circumstances, and place names are not one of those circumstances. It doesn't really matter what the various manuals of style say to do, because we do not follow any specific manual of styles, we just copy what the game devs have decided to do, and the vast majority of time, they do not capitalize the t. This holds true in games from Morrowind all through to ESO (I don't have access to the text files for games before that).

To quote one of the commenters from that Wikipedia discussion:

''"And we've had this debate many times before about many things, such as various company names, a lot of universities, etc., and the end result is always the same: WP uses "the" because most sources do. See also MOS:TM and WP:OFFICIALNAME; WP really doesn't care about the preferences of particular publishers or other entities, nor for "officialness" of some particular style choice. WP is not written in officialese."''

In this case, "most sources" for us are the games. And saying that the thousands of times they have made this choice in games across multiple decades is somehow a "common error" vastly misstates the sheer number of instances. In ESO alone there are over 1400 instances of "the Reach" with that capitalization. Sicing all of them is is both unnecessary and incorrect, because the game devs have settled on a style to use, and we should follow it. Again, given the number of times that this exact sort of capitalization has come up on Wikipedia, and every single time consensus has been that common usage does NOT capitalize the t, most readers are likely to assume a capitalized t is incorrect.

TLDR: We follow the style used by the games, and the games overwhelmingly use a lowercase t in such instances. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:30, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
: I would also point out that even if we WERE using a manual of style rules, Chicago's FAQ regarding this situation effectively says lowercase t is okay if that's what the source is using:

:''"Meanwhile, the entries in Merriam-Webster list “Gambia or the Gambia” and “Bahamas or the Bahamas or The Bahamas”—suggesting not only that usage varies but that a lowercase t may be more common when the article is used with either name. And though an editor applying Chicago style would ordinarily defer to Merriam-Webster (and choose lowercase), you can cite Britannica if your preference is for The Gambia. Just be sure to switch to lowercase when the article belongs to the surrounding text, as in “the Gambia River” or “the Gambian coast.”''
:(from [https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html here])

:Standard English grammar does not capitalize these situations generally and it would be wrong to mark them as sic for making a choice to not capitalize them. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:43, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Dictionaries are inherently NOT prescriptive or instructive. They document how people use language, not how it should be used. So of course they are going to note that it appears with and without a capital. They are frequently asked what the "right" way of writing something is and invariably respond that they only keep track of what people do, never judging what is best but merely helping people understand what others mean.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I would just suggest that both be acceptable, and therefore neither should be changed. Stats for ESO are already mentioned; in Skyrim, there are 52 instances of the Pale and the Rift being mentioned mid-sentence, and only 12 of The Pale and The Rift. This shows that 20% of the time, someone made a concerted effort to actively capitalise it, but by the same token, 80% of the time they didn't bother. As for the Reach, that appears over 100 times, while The Reach is only capitalised 3 times. CSList for Oblivion isn't working so I can't check the Fringe.
:::When it comes to sic and commas, I don't really think it's worth sic'ing punctuation at all, apart from apostrophes. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't see why a sic wouldn't be appropriate in the case punctuation is unambiguously wrong, such as a question ending in a period rather than a question mark. In the particular case of the Verified Creator Program, I do think Eve's edit is correct, but I do not know for sure that the original is unambiguously incorrect, so I shall remain neutral on that. But in general, I would support sic tags being used on any punctuation *errors*. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 21:25, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Correct placement of commas is subject to more 'grey areas' than just about any other aspect of punctuation. Deciding what is 'correct' (as opposed to purely stylistic choice) in many instances comes down to subtle distinctions of emphasis and intent. In the example under discussion, I would argue it depends on whether you consider "save her from the Forsworn" and "help her write your epic" as two distinct actions (ie "Will you save her from the Forsworn, ''and will you'' help her write your epic?") or just one ("Will you save her from the Forsworn ''while simultaneously'' helping her write your epic?"). Not having played the Creation in question, I would suggest the former is more likely, but neither are technically incorrect.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:35, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: The case in point for "The Fringe" is prose written by UESP users. There's nothing to sic. It's just a matter of being consistent in the text we do fully control. As for whether it's "worth" marking official text as erroneous on account of this, no one is demanding every such instance be immediately marked as such. I just want users to be able to acknowledge that it's not called Fringe. It's called The Fringe. And when users indicate this with a capital T, I don't want them to be fought on it. And I certainly don't want correct instances of a capital T changed to incorrect instances of a lowercase T as was the case here. Even if either were perfectly fine, then that change is unjustified anyway. The point is also well made that some number of people at Bethesda very clearly made an active effort to properly capitalize it. I'd say the more obvious distinction is that we have zero examples of it being referred to as simply "Fringe." It's always THE Fringe (except one "My Fringe" from Sheogorath being goofy and alluding to himself effectively being the realm itself that no one actually asserts should be an example of anything—but which nevertheless capitalizes "My," albeit possibly for a different reason anyway). And even if we were to mistake reference materials that merely chronicle usage both capitalizing the article and not as endorsement of both being proper, the one with the capitalization presents greater clarity of the actual place name whereas the other approach seeks to intentionally maintain unnecessary vagueness. As for the comma, the fact that the attempt to justify multiple intended meanings requires actually changing the phrasing to make it sound normal says a lot. If the words "will you" were repeated, then the comma would indeed be just fine. But they're not. And that's why it's an issue. There are no interpretations of the meaning that make the current comma and words valid. I feel much of the commentary stems from fear of needing to do a lot more work or fear of one's existing work looking lesser in some way. That's not how this works. Once we acknowledge what is ideal, no one is required to hunt down every instance of anything that falls short. Anything containing such an instance is not rendered any more incomplete than anything else on the wiki. The entire site is an eternal work in progress. Just don't change the right way to the wrong way when and where someone actually does care enough to get it right.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 06:44, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::No-one is suggesting that the location is called "Fringe". What they are arguing is that "the Fringe" and "The Fringe" are both equally correct. As for the comma, I was not "changing the phrase to make it sound normal", I was merely illustrating that there are different ways of interpreting the meaning, which affect whether the comma is appropriate. Or are you suggesting that the second interpretation is the only possible one? You seem to regard neither style guides nor dictionaries nor common usage as valid counter-evidence to the position you regard as 'objectively' correct, but I'm unclear how you arrived at this position. In any case, when it comes to proper nouns, the position of the 'owner' of the noun (in this case the devs) takes precedence. That's why there's a movie called ''Inglourious Basterds'', not ''Inglorious Bastards''. Now can we move on from a topic that really should not have provoked this much controversy?--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:07, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I'm stating that no matter how the sentence is interpreted, the comma is an error. You are correct that dictionaries are not regarded as evidence of how things SHOULD be—only of how they are used, whether desirable or not. As for style guides on the comma, I linked a Purdue reference affirming the comma's incorrectness. No one has linked any contrary guide. As for style guides on capitalizing The Fringe, the Chicago Manual of Style reference I linked also affirms that it "generally remains capitalized" and further attests Brittanica corroborates. I admit the last paragraph of that source is slightly confusing; however, read in full context, it refers precisely to The Gambia and The Bahamas as tolerating a lowercase "the." It explicitly states that any other region whose name starts with a definite article (such as "The") should have it capitalized, citing examples of El Salvador, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and The Hague. As for Bethesda's stance, if you can find a comment of them explicitly stating that it should be one way or the other, that would be awesome. Otherwise, again, just trying to deduce their position based on inconsistent examples is either inconclusive or outright supports capitalizing the article. And once again, absolutely no one has argued against honoring intentional spellings, which remain completely irrelevant to the cases in point.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: As an extra point of clarification, even the dictionaries agree anyway. "The Hague," for example is only listed with a capital The. It's simply that The Gambia and The Bahamas are extra exceptional in that they alone have a modicum of tolerance for a lowercase "the."[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:15, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: If tolerance is a valid consideration, Bethesda's tolerance of over 80% lower case is highly significant. As I said above, I would just suggest that both options be acceptable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 17:39, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::: How would that even work? First person to add the text gets to pick? People can endlessly change it back and forth?[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 18:13, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Yep, first person decides. For every alt spelling or grammar rule that UESP has no preference toward, consistency within the page is what matters, so whatever is on there first takes priority. Edits that change it back and forth aren't really allowed because edits are meant to be useful and changing it back and forth when the original already established something wouldn't be of substance. I think "dialogue" vs "dialog" is one of these things, where you can use either as long as the page is consitent within itself. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 18:24, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

: For whatever reason, the Spelling page actually dictates "Use 'dialog' to refer to interface elements ('dialog box', 'dismiss the inventory dialog') and 'dialogue' for character content ('the NPC's dialogue varies by player character race')." I get the idea, though. For the cases in point, I'd say they fall under the UESP "preference" to use correct grammar.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:47, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For the sake of completeness on the stats, I managed to get the Oblivion dialogue on the Fringe now that CSList is partially working again. Of 40 mid-sentence references to the Fringe, only 3 are capitalised. That's over 90% which aren't. And yes, as above; in other instances where there are two equally-acceptable styles, whichever is on the page first usually takes priority. Although I know sometimes when a lot of info is added to a page, editors may sometimes switch what's already there if that is then in the minority compared to their additions; I think that happens particularly if they've been typing out their edit elsewhere, and editing their additions would take longer than changing what's already there. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 22:17, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Dialog vs Dialogue isn't just a choice of the editor. Dialogue is specific to people speaking, dialog is to interface elements. This is specific to American English, where dialog is computer related. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:49, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Yep, after looking into it, this was [https://content1.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Spelling&diff=3116711&oldid=3047631 changed] a year ago and I last reviewed the guide before it was reduxed. A current example is Dwemer vs. Dwarven as an adjective of origin, of which either is acceptable. Thanks for the corrections on this point. Eve is correct that their Purdue reference has gone unchallenged and pending any provided counter-source, I must side with them on this and say the sic is valid. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 17:24, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

== Headers on Style Pages ==
Following from a discussion about headers on Crafting Motif Style pages in the Discord.

So, some Crafting Motif Style pages have a level 4 header on their pages under the intro paragraph where it says what weapon/armor is involved. An example of this is [[ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords|ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords]]. Some, primarily older ones, do not have that. They look like this [[ON:Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes|Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes]]. The Abah's Watch Axes example does appear to be styled more like how the in-game books look. I started doing the level 4 heads like on Voskrona Guardian Swords because I saw it on a Lore page before ([[Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style|Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style]]) as an example, though I think most, if not all, Lore Style pages have this.

So the question I have: Going forward, what should we do to fix the discrepancy?

1. Remove all the headers.

2. Keep the headers on Lore pages, but not on the Online namespace pages.

3. Keep all headers on both.

Thank you.

[[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 05:17, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:I support Option 1. The game itself doesn't have headers or bolding or anything different (other than the text being in caps) and we shouldn't be adding formatting that isn't part of the games to these pages. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:47, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::I support Option 1. Yeah, we should make it so it looks like in-game. --[[User:BixenteN7Akantor|BixenteN7Akantor]] ([[User talk:BixenteN7Akantor|talk]]) 18:41, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Option 1, although I think the bolded headings look better, we should prioritize accuracy. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 20:09, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Just adding to this, I'm noticing that some of the books (like Crafting Motif 33, above) indent the text under the headers where others don't. Unless there's any objection, I'll outdent those in addition to removing the headers whenever I run the bot job. That'll bring them into line with how they appear in game. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:02, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Option 1 makes sense. We should still keep some form of bolding to maintain readability (putting <code>;</code> in front of the chapters would easily do the job), we've never focused on perfectly replicating the books exactly how they are in-game so I don't see why we would start doing that now (see: authorship and intro notes in-game getting moved into the template on-wiki). —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 08:43, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Well, for me, it's a matter of consistency between the pages as opposed to perfectly replicating them as they are in-game. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 17:06, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Been a while. I say we pull the trigger on this for Option 1. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 23:47, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} Sorry, I completely forgot about this. The job's actually been ready to go since we first talked about it. I'm just running it now and it'll probably be done by the time I post this. Let me know if there are any issues. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:23, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
: It missed two but otherwise, everything looks good. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:05, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
::The two that it missed both had level 3 headers, which I hadn't realized were a thing, so I was only checking for level 4 headers. I should've checked the spacing after the title, though. I'm not sure how I missed that. Thanks for fixing the ones where that was an issue. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:59, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

==Class skill line pages not reflecting subclassing==
While I was adding achievement sections to the class skill line pages, I noticed that they all still say "(class skill line name) is one of three class skill lines available to (class)." Obviously, with subclassing now, these skill lines are available to everyone, and that statement kind of implies they're exclusive to that class. I've left them as is, as I didn't really know how to approach this. Any ideas are welcome, or if anyone wants to tackle this themselves, go ahead :) [[User:Sogekihei|Sogekihei]] ([[User talk:Sogekihei|talk]]) 02:00, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

: What about [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online%3ABone_Tyrant&type=revision&diff=3450557&oldid=3449649 this]? —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:11, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:: Since I didn't receive any feedback on this change, I've gone ahead and added this standard wording for each class skill line. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

== Incomplete / Unavailable mods in modspace? ==

I've stumbled upon a [[Morrowind Mod:Sixth House Reloaded|''Morrowind'' mod]] that has a decent amount of content on a decent amount of pages, which would have been hardly notable except for the fact that it is not available. Characterized as an "upcoming overhaul mod", work on the pages started on September of this year (and stalled one month after). I feel like this is problematic for the following reasons:
* Unlike mods that actually exist, there is no meaningful way for wiki contributors to create, edit or fact-check any content.
** Instead of articles vetted and improved by the community, we have one contributor's personal sandbox outside Userspace.
** Indeed, the few changes done by other editors worked on minor housekeeping as opposed to actual content.
* I don't think UESP is the appropriate venue to host a mod's full changelog or documentation.
** Nexus Mods, for example, would be a much more suitable platform for that kind of content.
* As this specific mod is still a work in progress, its pages feel more like hype or press releases rather than useful (or even usable) reference material.
** UESP is not the place for that either.

I would like to propose the deletion of the mod's pages. As an alternative, though, the pages could be moved from Modspace to Userspace. Indeed, [[Special:DoubleRedirects|a trail of redirects]] indicate that at least [[Morrowind_Mod:6HR:Creatures|one article]] might have started as a [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sandbox|sandbox page]].

However, I'm not sure if similar practices might also apply (or even be the norm) in other namespaces. Perhaps my proposals might be unfair, if there's some mitigating context I'm unaware of. Thus, I am asking for feedback from the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 19:18, 15 December 2025 (UTC)
: I agree with what you're saying. The fact that it's not available is the key thing on this one as opposed to other incomplete mods that are partially available, such as Tamriel Rebuilt. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:27, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

::Yeah I think at the time we assumed it would be out imminently. I have no problems with moving it back to Userspace until it releases. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:43, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

:::Done. Moved pages to subpages in [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sixth House Reloaded]]. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 23:23, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

==New Reference Tier Classification Specifically for the Julian LeFay Notes (Proposal)==
Hi! I wanted to suggest the creation of a new reference tier (as we have for official vs UOL) for the recently recovered TTRPG campaign notes of Julian LeFay—which were used for the creation of lore background for ''The Elder Scrolls II: Dagerfall''—and have all been published on [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefays-dd-notes The Imperial Library]. This release is the biggest batch we've ever received as a community of developer design documents, so I'm thinking we ought to treat them differently than regular UOL—especially since a great deal of the background lore in ''Dagerfall'' references the events that took place during this campaign (for example: background of Vanus Galerion, invention of Artaeum, events around Dwynnen, Baron Othrok, and the Camoran Usurper) and many blanks within that area of lore can be filled in with the contents of these notes nearly seamlessly (official canon would take presedence where it does not of course). My suggestion is that that a JLC (Julian LeFay Campaigns) tier be slotted between official and UOL in the 'reference' section of our pages.

In my mind, we would treat the contents of Julian's notes like how Nukepedia treats the Fallout Bible (which was a big document written by an official developer, and contained a plethora of developer commentary as well as design document content) -- more seriously than a UOL source but ultimately less seriously than any canon source. This would mean lorespace pages could be created about their contents (unlike strictly UOL pages), only with a header notice ([https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Asp_Faust as seen here for example]) stating extra clearly that these lorespace pages are based on a secondary source. This method would also subscribe to Todd Howard's statement on truthfulness when it comes to overall fiction of ''The Elder Scrolls'', as stated [[General:Todd Howard PAX East 2019 Interview#Game Development, Canon, and Fan Theories|here]]. However, this would and should extend only to the contents of these notes alone -- all other UOL sources would and should remain UOL.

These notes are some of Julian LeFay's only known direct designs and writings, and I think this would be a really nice way to honor his legacy as well as his contributions to the series while also not overstating their officiality. Looking forward to hearing any thoughts, questions, and suggestions in response to this proposal! Best, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 23:55, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

: To me, this is the same as any other conceptual source covered by the catch-all UOL tag. I agree it's noteworthy developer commentary, but we don't need to categorise unofficial sources into tier lists. I don't see how it's any more "canon" than other dev texts or cutting room floor design docs—foundational, yes, but the same citation rules apply. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:: I have to agree I don't agree with distinguishing UOL tiers on this way. It feels like giving preferential treatment and I feel like that's a slippery slope. Julian's works are invaluable that much is certain, but I'd feel weird with having UESP essentially say "this Dev's contributions matter more than this other Dev's" regardless of personal opinion on such. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 00:27, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: With all respect to Julian I don't know if he would have even himself considered this the same or equivalent to the finished project? Ultimately it was only released on the event of his tragic death as a nice treat for his fans. What would be the cutoff for what's DnD and whats TES? With all the DnD monsters and giants included in it seems like a line would have to be drawn somewhere if it was considered near equivalent to official lore. Absolutely I would like to see material from it cited as well tolerated UOL with regards to the gaps it fills in Daggerfall lore. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:31, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::: Well the reason I think there ''is'' a need is in this case is because I think it would be appropriate to make lorespace pages about the material, which is not standard for our UOL policy; I'm not just suggesting to add another tier to add another tier. This is also why we would put a notice alike the Fallout Bible header on such pages, because it is a secondary source. I'm not saying it should be treated as official. I wouldn't say these are "cutting room floor" in any fashion, it's far more like the extra source material from the bottom of [[Wikipedia:Iceberg theory|Hemingway's Iceberg]]—in the sense that this was the source material ''directly'' that was used to formulate the lore of ''Daggerfall''. I honestly can't think of another case where we have ever had direct access to documents of this style before, ever. So to me it feels like something at least worth having a discussion about here.

:::: I'd also note that Julian was the original series director for TES in the 1990s, he wasn't just any miscellaneous developer who ran a tabletop game in his off hours—I'd honestly relate it to an author like Tolkien authoring his many notes for the Silmarillion that weren't published until long after he had written them. Additionally I'd note that this is entirely a one-case scenario suggestion, as I said all other UOL should and would remain UOL. And again while we might not measure extratextual sources by tiers, we know Bethesda officially does. As you can read in Todd's statement on truth above, I think it would be more than fair to say the original notes used for fleshing out ''The Elder Scrolls'' after ''Arena'' ought to rate higher than a developer's forum text or post, which the UOL category is normally reserved for. Looking forward to further discussion on this! Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 00:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: Actually, I'll place a counter proposal here. If we were to keep the reference tier as UOL (which is what most seem to have a problem with above) but allow contents from the notes to be covered on individual pages in lorespace per the Fallout Bible extratextual page header style suggested above, I would be comfortable with the UOL designation. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:06, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::: What are examples of the material you think warrants the caveat? -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:08, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::: Sure. Firstly, I'd say "Caramon Drake", the lich of Castle Wightmoor that Baron Othrok faces against who is mentioned in the book ''[[Lore:The Fall of the Usurper|The Fall of the Usurper]]'' but is not named directly. Castle Wightmoor itself, which we possess a concept map of and details about, also mentioned in the book. Additionally there's the families of the Iliac Bay mentioned in the same book, but unnamed, would also be appropriate candidates. I could go on, but that gives a decent idea of what I have in mind in regards to lorespace additions. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:13, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::: Well that makes things kind of different as we actually have already made caveats like that in the past. That case by case we could name entries or articles after things that exist in canon but are only named in UOL, IE Parrapton, N'chorbal, and some rivers in ESO I believe. I don't think there needs to be some special category for this if enough people agree on the specific examples warranting it. As long as we aren't suggesting making things like pages for stuff with no basis like the character that is a DnD Firebolg.- [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:18, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::::: While those examples above are referenced in the official lore, there are others that are entirely extratextual -- the point of my suggesting the caveat header is so we can expand our coverage to these extratextual subjects. The Fallout wiki has been doing this for a very long time with specific documents of this sort, and their coverage of materials is better than ours for it.

::::::::: I agree than any materials referenced entirely not of The Elder Scrolls—like the Firebolg—should not feature anywhere outside of notes. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:26, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::: What is something that is entirely extratextual that would warrant an article wherein all the context about them was not already in the transcript? - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:32, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Sorry I'm not picking up your question exactly? Everything I'm referring to is contained in the released transcripts for the campaigns, if that answers that? I meant "extratextual" as in not currently hinted at in the official canon, so the opposite of a Caramon Drake or Castle Wightmoor (which are hinted at/referenced).

As far as extratextual items worth documenting, I would say the various lords of Summerset listed in the notes. Each of which have paragraph-sized biographies going over who they are any what their deal is. The map also tells us where they rule. I would also say a group like the Krysard would be deserving of a page. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:41, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

: Counter-counter proposal, how would folks feel about placing it in his own space instead of just in generalspace? Like how we have mods with their own special spaces (like say "Daggerfall Mod:" or "Tamriel Rebuilt:")—if fan mods deserves entirely special spaces like these, I think there's a decent argument to be made that the developer D&D game materials ought to have their own unique space as well. This keeps it out of official lorespace and also out of overcluttering generalspace—where we can both document and make lorespace-style pages for the contents. We can hyperlink relevant stuff to and from lorespace as necessary as UOL, nothing lost. Thoughts? Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 06:07, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::That seems like a good suggestion. I would be reluctant to create a new reference tier in case it gives the impression that all other UOL is given equal weight, which it isn't.-[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:58, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: I agree this seems perfectly fine. If modpages can have spaces then I see no reason why a developer's "lore bible" can't either. So for that specific proposal of a Julianspace I'm all for [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:46, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::Oh yeah we can probably give it a space in a similar manner to the books! Those have character bio pages and lists and such. Would make sense to treat it kinda like that. That way we could also just list all the characters and their bios. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 16:23, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: I think the suggestion to create a "Julianspace" to document the campaign fully is an interesting proposal. I also wouldn't be against lore page creation on the basis of this source either. Although usually disallowed for UOL-only concepts, I think an ad-hoc approach is appropriate if a case can be made for individual articles. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:29, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::In terms of naming lore articles, the Stargate Omnipedia uses an interesting method, since so many of the planets are unnamed in the show, but might get names in dev commentary or other non-canon sources. They name the article as the generic name (in this case, something like "Lich of Castle Wightmoor") and then have a redirect from the UOL name, with the first sentence listing the name as well as a note as why it isn't the article name. This would get around the issues involving using UOL names for the article title and still provide the information to the reader in the first sentence. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:35, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I would much rather we treat all UOL the same regardless of the source. That applies to how we reference it ''and'' how we document it, and in either case, there should be no tiering. Therefore if we create a separate namespace, it should be valid for any UOL concept to receive an article within that namespace, in the same way TIL doesn't differentiate between different developer's writings (they're all equally considered Obscure Texts). Although I would perhaps see this more logically as a subspace rooted on [[General:Unofficial Lore]] rather than a true separate namespace. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Wow, okay a lot to respond to here, lemme try and objectively boil down the proposals currently on the table so this can be talked out -- I'll leave my personal responses for another post. Many thanks to all above for offering their thoughts, it's massively appreciated!

*'''Tiered References Suggestion Rejected: No special reference tier for the notes, keep all references as UOL. Most everyone above seems massively against creating a new tier.'''
*'''Suggestion #1: Make a seperate space for overall coverage and making lorespace-esque pages about the notes. More people than not seem to find this potentially viable.'''
**Side Thought #1: One editor suggests this can emulate bookspace style in its coverage of the material.
**Side Thought #2: One editor thinks that this space should not exist at all unless it's going to cover all UOL, because it comes too close to a tiering this as higher than other UOL. The same editor suggest using generalspace for hosting all our coverage for this instead, rather than creating a new space.
*'''Suggestion #2: Two editors suggest that in an ad hoc exception, we allow the content of the notes to be used in regular lorespace -- but ''only'' the contents of these notes, other UOL would not be allowed coverage in lorespace in this fashion.'''
**Side Thought #3: Two editors suggest something similar, but that topics officially referenced can use generic names from the official source(s) for page titles and allow the content UOL from the notes to be covered there. However, the first editor suggested the approach of using the UOL names for page titles, as it was agreed to do with [[Lore:Parrapton]] and [[Lore:Lorais River]] (topics things that officially appear/are referenced officially).
**Side Thought #4: I introduced the above suggestion, while placing [[Template:Notice|notices]] at the top of such pages noting that the information is derived from a secondary source (as Nukepedia does for pages concerning ''Fallout Bible'' contents).
{{uns|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|04:59, 22 January 2026 (UTC)}}

:I also believe the suggestion of a "psuedo-space" or "subspace" still within General space suggested by Enodoc, which I'd maybe lean instead of a whole space but I could go either way really at this point. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 06:53, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

::Sorry, my bad. Had kind of a lot to compile there. That part has now been added above. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:14, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

:::Okay, following up on this. Personally my preference would be Suggestion #2 with Side Thought #4 tacked on, it just seems the simplest to implement and the most pleasant method of handling this overall in my mind.

:::The separate "julianspace" of Suggestion #1 would also work well enough. Though I'm afraid can't agree with Side Thought #2 about it somehow ''having'' to contain all UOL contents within the space... we do entirely have the discretion to decide things like this, there's not like a 'mathematical rule' that must be followed in order to decide how to handle our coverage here man. And really if fan things like ''Tamriel Rebuilt'' or ''Better Cities'' can have exclusive spaces, I think it's more than reasonable for a developer driven thing like this to have its own as well if we choose. In regards to shuffling it all into generalspace under subpages, I would dislike that and I think it would make it much harder for our users to discover and navigate the materials once recorded versus a unique space which would be on/off toggleable in UESP search. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:59, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

::::If it's my comment you're referring to as "Side Thought #2", the point was that there's no good reason to give one dev's UOL preferential treatment over any other, which was the exact same reason people opposed a separate reference tier. If it is theoretically viable for a separate namespace to be created for one dev's UOL, then it stands to reason that any dev's UOL could also theoretically have a separate namespace. Remember that TR3 and BC4 only have separate namespaces because it was decided that content didn't belong in MWMod or OBMod (spaces which already exist for mod content); so I would say for one dev's UOL to have it's own namespace primarily for the purpose of lorespace-adjacent articles, we first need to consider the parallel that any UOL concepts get their own lorespace-adjacent articles (whether directly in Lorespace, somewhere in General with the UOL source material, or in their own "UOL" namespace). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 14:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

== Trivia/citing myself as a source ==

Hey there! The social media [https://www.facebook.com/share/p/188yfZYRLL/ post about Slouchbears] reminded me of a similar bit of trivia: at PAX East 2018, in the build of ESO they had for the Summerset demo, [[ON:Bright Moons Lunar Moth|Bright Moons Lunar Moths]] didn't exist, but rather there were identical (but orange) moths named "Feather Moths" all around Summerset. Like Slouchbears, these don't exist as a creature in the final game, but the NPC [[ON:Feathermoth|Feathermoth]] is named after them, and there's two references to them in the form of a Treasure description and NPC dialogue, so we've got them listed on the [[Lore:Moth|Lore:Moth]] page.

I think it's worth adding this to the appropriate pages since trivia is always fun and it helps explain the random handful of references, but as far as I'm aware, the only source aside from my own memories is my [https://blog.uesp.net/pax-east-2018-saturday-bethesda-gameplay-day/ blog post] from April 10, 2018 where I mention them by name (though not that they were orange) - I even double-checked the ESO Live broadcasts from around that time, but those used newer builds that had the newer moths. (The event and my post were in April 2018, the demo build was from Feb according to my other post about the event, and the Chapter was released in June.) Is it appropriate in this scenario to cite my own old post as a source? ~ [[User:Alarra|Alarra]] ([[User_talk:Alarra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alarra|contribs]]) 06:41, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

:Since it was published in a blog post I believe it should be fine. Hopefully there might be something in the old files too. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 06:52, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

::To second Rim's comment, yes this is totally fine. If you're the foremost knowledgeable person that published about it, you should be able to cite your own sources as long as it is not excessive and with good faith. There is the problem of verifiability, but we have to be lenient when we don't have any other surviving sources. This happens all the time in academia (there are some edge cases and differences, as you can plagiarize yourself in academia, which would not be applicable in this scenario). --[[User:Ilaro|Ilaro]] ([[User talk:Ilaro|talk]]) 11:09, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

== Documentation about how to use icons in a page ==
I edited [[Skyrim:Enchanting]] to add a detail about renaming enchanted items on the Switch. To match the format of the section I was editing, I added a template call to put the nintendo-switch icon in next to the text I added. It took me a rather long time (15-30 minutes) to figure out how to do this, despite me having experience with Wikipedia editing and MediaWiki admin. Is there a page on this wiki explaining how to use icons when editing a page? Should I start creating one? I couldn't find one linked from [[UESPWiki:Getting Started]]

[[User:Bsammon|Bsammon]] ([[User talk:Bsammon|talk]]) 22:49, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: On the (potential) de-listing of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (from gamespace) ==

This is a proposal on why I believe we should de-list the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (and Unofficial Special Edition Patch, etc) from Skyrim's gamespace, and my reasonings for it. As a some of us know, a short while ago an exposé on the patch and its developers, albeit primarily Arthmoor, was released. I want to clarify before going deeper in that whilst -some- of this comes into play into the proposal, my main concern remains the amount of "false flag" bugs that the patch "fixes" and are eventually added to UESP (oftentimes by patch developers themselves) Skyrimspace pages. I will however be using the exposé video as a source often, as I've struggled to find the original posts lost to time, and the video does a good job of showing the most relevant ones. Whenever a source points to this video, it will be to the respective timestamped location.

A lot of these "fixes" are extremely subjective and less-so bug fixes but instead are either "balance changes" made by the mod developers, or personal interpretations of lore and the setting. All of which are classified as "bugs" by the mod developers, and subsequently so on UESP's gamespace pages. Now, there are -a lot- of these changes, impossible to document them all here, so these will inherently be cherry picked by the most blatant ones. For this reason I will actually have multiple proposals by the end of this thread. So lets begin, first with some "bug" examples.

----
* The [[Skyrim:Restoration#Necromage_when_playing_as_a_vampire|Necromage perk]] makes spells more effective against an undead. If you are a vampire, which tags you as undead, it makes self-targeted spells more effective against you. This is removed by the Unofficial Patch as it's considered a bug. On UESP it was listed a bug as well. Personally I do not see how this is a bug, an oversight or exploit at most.

* [[Skyrim:Redbelly_Mine|Redbelly Mine]] has corpses killed by spiders within. An NPC meanwhile claims no one has been hurt by spiders. The Unofficial Patch "fixes" this by removing the corpses from the mine. This isn't a bug to be fixed, this is an in-world NPC not being all knowing. This Mine also has another "bug" fixed. Albeit this second bug fix is a bit more subjective. The mine in vanilla is an Ebony mine, albeit some NPC's refer to it as an Iron mine. On the other hand, the mine is located in Shor's Stone which also makes narrative sense, considering Ebony is the blood of Lorkhan and Shor is Lorkhan. In ESO, this mine is -also- an ebony mine. The Patch changes this to an Iron mine, and whilst this is more subjective and less clear-cut, I still do not think this is a "bug". However, this one is no longer listed on Redbelly Mine's page bug list in its entirety, due to a small edit discussion from a few months ago. In addition to this, this "fix" adds an entirely new mine to Skyrim with Ebony to compensate. This is not a bug fix, this is an outright worldspace change.
** And yet, this remains controversial, with Arthmoor himself as of 6th November 2025 sharing his thoughts on what he perceives as a bug. However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach.

* [[Skyrim:Aval_Atheron|Aval Atheron]] is a general goods merchant who in dialogue claims to sell just about anything ""Assorted fruits and vegetables, all delicious and affordable!", "I've a little of everything for sale, come and see for yourself!", "Wherever I can find them. If you're the type who worries over where something came from, you may want to move on."" However his merchant stall only shows meat. The Patch considers this a bug and does the following two "bug fixes". It removes all non-meat goods from his merchant inventory, and blocks dialogue lines unrelated to meat. I have no idea how these can be considered bugs. They're listed as bugs on UESP as well.

* The famous [[Skyrim:Fortify_Restoration|Restoration Loop]] is admittedly an exploit, which is "fixed" by the patch. But personally I do not see how this is a bug. This is another extremely subjective one, and I'm mostly only including it to show how subjective bug fixes are and why globally classifying all these things as bugs could be a bad thing.

* There's a few "fixes" that on UESP are not listed as bug fixes but instead as notes, such as the Patch adding an extra room to the Ragged Flagon, or Mjoll's sword being changed from a one-hander to two-hander. Personally, if all these "fixes" were in the notes instead of "bugs" I'd have less of an issue, but then I think "why bother having them"?

* This "fix" admittedly I'm not sure if it's even on UESP, as it is incredibly time-consuming to check, and IMO if it is on UESP it isn't listed as a bug or fix, but outright in quest and npc dialogue pages. Bethesda consistently writes "jarls" in the lowercase, whilst the Patch "corrects" all mentions of jarl to use the uppercase. I'll copy paste from the patch's buglist page itself: "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before jarls and moots." -> "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before Jarls and Moots." (Bug #31783); DialogueCompanionsJorrvaskrWarTopic [000DAB27]: "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of jarls." -> "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of Jarls." (Bug #31781) They also do this with "steward -> Steward"

* The [[Skyrim:Archmage's Robes|Archmage's Robes]] can be worn with a circlet in vanilla Skyrim. The Patch considers this a bug and prevents circlets (and dragonpriest masks) from being worn together with the robe. This is also listed as a bug on UESP.

* The [[Skyrim:The_Guardian_Stones|Thief Guardian Stone]] is changed to no longer boost Archery, instead Archery is boosted by the Warrior Stone. Whilst there are two other buffs in the game which consider Archery a Warrior skill instead of a Thief skill, this still feels more like a balance change than anything. On UESP this has conflicts as well, as the Archery page lists the change as a Note, whilst the Guardian Stone page lists it as a Bug.

Okay, there's countless bugs fixed or "fixed" by the patch, I can't go through them all here. These ones caught my eye the most, and are once again admittedly cherry-picked. So, lets move onto the less gameplay and more community related issues. This will be quite subjective.
----

The patch developers have curated a hostile environment towards other bug fix mods. They've regularly abused DMCA strike systems to take down other bug fix mods and *legal* ports of his own mod where he had no standing to take it down, to the point even Nexus pointed such out.[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=XTJRU1_DaCbJ15LP&t=3039][https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/np8bi8/arthmoor_has_possibly_illegally_used_dmca_to_get/] and Arthmoor himself has harassed and belittled people so often to the extent of being banned from subreddits such as skyrimmods[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=QVVd-MWhGZO8zLAV&t=2975]. Personally, I do not want to go in length into the drama here as that is secondary. One of the sources I listed in this section is the "exposé" (as I couldn't find the original reddit posts myself easily) so if you wish, watch it and make up your own mind. Regardless, I think it is worth mentioning as it will tie into one of my proposals, so lets get onto those.

*'''Proposal One:''' This is the most lenient one. All "bug fixes" are moved to the Notes section on their respective pages, as some UESP pages already do this. This keeps the information visible whilst getting rid of the hard cut "bug" label on many things which aren't bugs.

*'''Proposal Two:''' The incoherent and more subjective "bug fixes" are removed from the pages. We can perhaps list them on the modspace for the patch instead.

*'''Proposal Three:''' All mentions of the unofficial patch are purged from UESP's gamespace. This is a nuclear option, and this is where the drama part comes in. Considering how -hostile- Arthmoor is to other modders and the general community at large, I feel weird seeing UESP "endorse" him in such a manner. I understand this one might be a bit too extreme for some, but considering the years of conflict caused by the head of this patch's dev team, I do think it's still worth considering. Moreso with Arthmoor's antics regarding his mod going as far as to deleting fair talk page related criticism on the UESP itself. Although I very much understand if the other two options, especially Proposal One, are more acceptable.

Well, that's my proposal- I hope we can have a productive conversation on this topic [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 07:27, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:On actual bugs: I think it's important to continue noting where a bug is fixed by USSEP, but I think that concept should be expanded to include any bug-fix compilation mod. USSEP is not the only mod that fixes bugs, and anything that ''is'' an actual bug-fix should not be relegated from Bugs to Notes.
:On subjective balance changes: Here I agree with Proposal One. Anything that is ''not'' an obvious bug should indeed be moved to Notes. And perhaps if we have that, we could also detail any mod that reverts USSEP's subjective changes, so anyone who is using USSEP for the bug fixes has an idea of how to restore vanilla functionality. But if we continue to indicate where USSEP actually fixes bugs, I think we also need to continue indicating the other stuff too; while it is technically not relevant, only covering half of what it does seems incomplete. Moving those things to modspace per Proposal Two could work, but we don't need that page turning into another USSEP change log list, so I think that would be less beneficial overall.
:On de-listing: As I said above, I'd rather see more mods that fix bugs being included, than removing information of when a bug is fixed. But I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of audit on what we actually consider a "bug" (based on our definition, not USSEP's). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:55, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::I've always wanted to completely purge "This bug is fixed by [mod]" from the wiki. I feel like information on mods should stay in mod-space and not be included on pages about the vanilla game. USSEP is linked to on well over 1,000 articles, which comes across as a big endorsement. I have a bugfix mod of my own, and if I were to link it on the hundred relevant UESP articles then I would generate a not-insignificant amount of revenue from the free advertising, since the Nexus page is monetised. Beyond USSEP, we also have Morrowind articles saying "This bug is fixed by [mod]" that link to a bugfix project that the active Morrowind modding community considers outdated and no longer recommend.

::Perhaps another solution would be to edit the Bug template to link to a page in mod-space that contains a list of bugfixing mods for that game. This way people can be made aware that various bugfix mods exist without choosing a single one to be advertised across the wiki. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::: I'm in full agreement with Samantha, it has also left a weird taste in my mouth to see an "endorsement" in this way. Even if it's not UESP doing it, it's still allowing it. I would personally be up for your proposal of linking to a bug fixing mod list page on a bug template instead of outright listing the mod. This would allow us to maintain bug fixes/subjective change info without showing favouritism to anyone, and without cluttering gamespace pages with 30 bug fix mods. And USSEP aside, it'd also mostly resolve the issue of outdated information as well for sure. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 19:25, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:::: Yeah, I support this. Even if the mod is super popular, we shouldn't be listing it uniquely compared to other mods. The patch infamously adds a whole other room to the Ratway for people to sleep in, which far oversteps the territory of mere bug fixing. Not that it being strictly bug fixing would mean it deserves the coverage it gets. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 23:20, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: I also support this. Proposal two is sensible, but I'm not opposed to proposal three, given how any attempts at an alternative patch for Skyrim have repeatedly shut down by the operators of USSEP under ludicrous pretenses, in some ways it is odd to endorse the project at all. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::For the sake of example, I made some edits to the Bug template to produce [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]]. Official patches have had the word "official" removed as there's no longer a need to clarify, and mod bugfixes link to "[Namespace] Mod:Mods" to showcase my suggestion. This would rename some categories, but would no longer advertise one specific mod over others. The trackerid parameter has also been removed.

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug.|OSP|1.10.0}}

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug fixed by a mod.|SRMOD}}

::::::This isn't intended to be the final template, but hopefully is something visual that can help the discussion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 22:24, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I agree that UESP's endorsement of specific mods in gamespace is a poor decision in hindsight, particularly with Arthmoor's Oblivion and Skyrim patches. Those mods are nothing short of controversial at this point, despite their widespread use, a bit like the Morrowind Sound & Graphics Overhaul became over time.

:::::::I like where Samantha is going with idea of hiding the name and version of the patch while preserving the metadata in the page's source. It may look even cleaner to remove the sub-bullet and add some sort of parenthical superscript at the end of the bug description via the template. In any case, hiding version numbers is a good idea because no general reader cares which version fixed a bug—they just use the latest version. It's only good for editors to find the relevant changelog sometime in the future. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::I agree that de-emphasizing any single bug fixing mod over others is definitely the right way to go. However I do think for people that have run into the bug, knowing which mod would fix it for them would still be valuable to include somehow, but in a way that multiple mods can be listed that makes sense, at least for bugs that impede quest progress or otherwise soft-lock you out of quests. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 03:03, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::I created [[User:Samantha Says/Bug/Mods|this page]] to show what linking to a collection of bugfixing mods could look like. It could be under <samp>Namespace Mod:Bugfixes</samp> for each game, or a single compilation page like the already existing [[Mod:Main Page]] article. The user experience in this case when reading an article would be: they see the bug, they see that unofficial mods fix the issue, and then can explore a non-exhaustive collection of bugfix projects that tackle various issues, giving them a point in the right direction for modifying their game. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 21:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

{{od}}I am in support of this proposal, provided that the policy is applied evenly across all game namespaces (i.e., remove UOP, UORP, and UORPD from Oblivion namespace, remove MPP, MCP, PfP, and OpenMW from Morrowind namespace, remove DFQFIX from Daggerfall namespace, remove every single reference to a specific mod for a specific bugfix). — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 21:35, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

:On a sidenote relating to the subject of mods and bug fixes, I believe the article [[Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] shouldn't even exist. It is unnecessary, as UESP generally documents mods that add meaningful, playable content or address a broad range of issues. Mods that fix numerous bugs, such as the [[Skyrim Mod:Unofficial Skyrim Patch|Unofficial Skyrim Patch]], are relevant because of their wide impact and significance to gameplay. By contrast, this mod addresses only a single, isolated issue, which makes it less suitable for inclusion on UESP. [[User:KevinM|KevinM]] ([[User_Talk:KevinM|talk]]) 06:39, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

::For whatever reason, I wasn't notified of updates here. So time to catch up on replies.
::I like the idea of Samantha's template especially with usage of the Bugfix Mod Collection page they made, and genuinely think that's the way to go. I also agree with Wolfborn, that we should apply this evenly across all gamespaces. With Samantha's bugfix collection page this'll be even easier to do.
::I'd also like to offer another idea for the bug/issue distinction. The term bug could be reserved for issues fixed by (official) patches, while anything modified or changed by "bug fix mods" could be called a tweak.

::* "Skyrim Patch version 1.10.0 fixes this bug."
::* "Unofficial Mods are available that can fix this bug." <-- If it fixes the same bug as above
::* "Unofficial Mods are available that can tweak this item" <-- If doesn't fix something officially recognized as a bug. This would resolve issues with subjective "bug fixes" such as Redbelly Mine

::So, '''Current Proposal'''
::- We implement Samantha's tweaked bugfix template. No singular mod is mentioned as fixing bugs anymore, instead linking to another UESP page listing various bugfix mods in each game. This makes it so UESP no longer "endorses" mods, some of which may or may not be seen as controversial, whilst allowing the content to remain and also doubling as a repository of various bug fix mods.

::I would like additional thoughts on a bug/tweak distinction as well
::[[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 13:48, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:::I don't think that it needs to be noted that a mod fixes a bug if it has been fixed by an official patch. The only time it would make sense to see this would be in remakes, for example a bug fixed in Oblivion Remastered but not the original.

:::I would suggest that "tweaks" would mean inconsistencies that go in an article's Notes section, rather than the Bugs section, and should probably not mention mods that address them. To use [[Skyrim:Redbelly Mine|Redbelly Mine]] as an example, the page currently says "the thick red mist described by the miners living in Shor's Stone is not present; the mine is clear inside." I wouldn't call this is a bug as there is no obvious typo in the cell's fog data, nor is there a demonstrable misclick that could have resulted in a red mist not being applied. Without those, this feels like a simple inconsistency (that could even be explained in-universe). This also applies to the infamous ore distribution; with no clear typo or misclick, it just becomes an inconsistency between dialogue and the cell itself, of which there are clearly many interpretations for how this could be explained.

:::I disagree that the term bug should be reserved for issues fixed by official patches, as there are unfixed bugs — especially in the older games — that can prevent quest progression or even crash the game, which are important to note for readers. I would rather define a bug on the {{tl|Bug}} doc page as a way to resolve subjective bugs being listed. This definition can be expanded in the future, but a good starting point would be:

:::*Causes game instability or crashes.
:::*Prevents or delays quest or mechanic progression.
:::*An inconsistency caused by a clear typo, for example [[Oblivion:Boots of Order|Boots of Order's]] heavy weight being 1.5 which clearly doesn't fit in the sequence.
:::*An inconsistency caused by a demonstrable misclick, for example [[Oblivion:Ra'Jhan|Ra'Jhan]] has Ra'Jahirr's house key and his bedroom door is owned by Ra'jiradh, both of which are right next to Ra'Jhan's listing in the Construction Set.
:::[[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 17:32, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

::::Does anyone else have an opinion on whether the article [[Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] should be kept on UESP? I created a deletion review [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] some time ago, but no one else commented. I then asked about it on the UESP Discord and was told I should bring the topic up here, since the discussion concerns mods and bug fixes. [[User:KevinM|KevinM]] ([[User_Talk:KevinM|talk]]) 23:11, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that the policy should be applied evenly across all gamespaces. I also agree with Samantha's definition of a bug. Restricting the term to bugs that have been officially recognised and fixed seems inadequate. In some cases, a bug that existed since launch might not get patched until much later, and it seems strange to claim that it only became a bug at that point. Mods that also include tweaks and subjective 'fixes' should be identified as such, either on the collection page or their own individual pages. As for the point Kevin raised, this proposal is likely to result in more bugfix mods getting individual pages, so I guess it depends how comprehensive we want the list to be. [[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 01:44, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::I agree with the proposal to implement a generic "bugfix" template and remove all mention of specific unofficial third-party mods from vanilla gamespace pages. It is not the purpose or function of the wiki to recommend or endorse any one individual mod for any specific purpose, and mentioning mods by name may be seen or interpreted by readers as doing so.

::::::I agree with Samantha that game "tweaks" (as opposed to clear bugfixes) should ''not'' be noted on vanilla namespace pages. There are literally thousands of mods which make thousands of "tweaks" to the vanilla games for various reasons; to note every instance would be impractical. Documenting the "tweaks" made by various mods is exactly what modspace is for.

::::::Regarding KevinM's question about a specific mod, the noted mod should remain documented on the wiki. The fact that it is a small, purpose-made mod to fix a single issue should not be a deciding factor in whether it should remain. The wiki should not discriminate either for or against the documentation of any individual mod as, again, it is not the place or purpose of the wiki to judge, rate, endorse, or recommend mods.
::::::— [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 03:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} On further thinking, I am in agreement with Samantha about the tweak-bug thing. Having a standardized "what counts as a bug" style guide page is a much better way of going about things. I'm very much on board with their counter proposals and ideas to my own and think they're the way to go.

'''Current Proposal'''

We implement (and re-iterate if needed) Samantha's tweaked bugfix template (ex: [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]] ). No singular mod is mentioned as fixing bugs anymore, instead linking to another UESP page listing various bugfix mods in each game (ex: [[User:Samantha Says/Bug/Mods|this page]] ). This makes it so UESP no longer "endorses" mods, some of which may or may not be seen as controversial, whilst allowing the content to remain and also doubling as a repository of various bug fix mods.

This policy is applied evenly across all gamespaces instead of solely to Skyrim's.

We create a bug fix style guide page showing examples of what we should consider a bug. Following Samantha's starting point ideas as a base, which I will copy below here for readability:
{{NewLine}}
*Causes game instability or crashes.
*Prevents or delays quest or mechanic progression.
*An inconsistency caused by a clear typo, for example [[Oblivion:Boots of Order|Boots of Order's]] heavy weight being 1.5 which clearly doesn't fit in the sequence.
*An inconsistency caused by a demonstrable misclick, for example [[Oblivion:Ra'Jhan|Ra'Jhan]] has Ra'Jahirr's house key and his bedroom door is owned by Ra'jiradh, both of which are right next to Ra'Jhan's listing in the Construction Set.

I hope this is something we can agree and start getting to work on. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 05:41, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:That all seems reasonable. To clarify my earlier point on tweaks, which I don't think came across clearly, I meant that if a mod contains both tweaks and bugfixes (particularly if it's a broad-based one like USP etc) the description should make this clear so users can make their own minds up.—[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:39, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

::I am very happy with this proposal and am willing to put in the work to go through existing articles to remove questionable bug fixes, move inappropriate bugs to Notes sections, and flesh out the definition of a bug. I have also added the proposed definition to the proposed template. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:::The only question I would have now (which is essentially a rewording of a point I made earlier) is how to identify which mod fixes which bug without the mod's page turning into a duplicate of that mod's changelog. Say that we end up adding more bugfix compilations than just USSEP to the list - which would be a logical extension of this activity - how do I know whether a specific bug is fixed by USSEP, USMP, WAACCF or SLAWF? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:26, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

::::That is something that will be lost in the current proposal. I'm not sure if there would be a way to achieve that without turning the Bugs section of pages into "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." Personally I would prefer the current proposal over the existing Bug template and over listing multiple mods in the gamespaces. I designed the proposed template accepting that the functionality of promoting specific bugfix mods to the user would be lost. It does at least gives users a point in the right direction on where to find bugfixing mods, for what that's worth. It felt too far a step in the other direction to remove all references to bugfixing mods entirely, though I wouldn't object to it. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 00:05, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but doesn't practically every bug in some of these games have a mod that fixes it? Seems like a redundancy to say "There is a mod that fixes this" under every listed bug in a game like Skyrim where the modding community is so vast that every consistent feature is altered, let alone the inconsistencies. I'd be fine with axing the mod mentions all-together. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 01:32, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::I'll be happy if there is enough support for the original Option 3, where references to USSEP and other bugfix mods are removed entirely. Personally, I just want ''something'' done to remove what feels like a site-wide advertisement of USSEP, whether that's by making the "This is fixed by [mod]" text more vague or removing it entirely. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 01:40, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::On Option 3, then what's the point listing bugs if all we do is saying a bug is fixable? If we list all bug fixing mods in a page and direct all fixable bugs to this page are readers supposed to search on all those mods and find the one that fixes it? This does not seem helpful at all. On the other hand if what we do is to assume the reader knows that U**P is the default bug fixing mod unless they want to dive deeper then is this not the same as promoting U**P without saying the thing? I support the "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." approach even if it seems redundant. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:13, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::Just to clarify, the original Option 3 would be removing the "This bug is fixed by..." line entirely unless it is fixed in an official patch. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

{{OD}}
To provide another example, I've created a [[User:Samantha Says/Bug2|second template]] that removes the "This bug is fixed by [mod]" line entirely. It is backwards compatible with existing pages that say it is fixed by mods. For example:
<pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|OSSEP}}
</pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|OSSEP}}

<pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|USSEP}}
</pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|USSEP}}

This approach follows the original Proposal Three, purging all references to USSEP, and goes further to cover all modded content. I think if we're removing one problematic bugfix mod from gamespace, removing all of them would be wise to prevent a similar situation from happening in the future. This approach is also much simpler than trying to be fair to every bugfix mod out there and trying to ensure that they are all equally highlighted. The documentation has been updated to include a definition of a bug, which can be adjusted as deemed fit, as well as the parameters section being slightly edited for the ones deprecated. Do we think this would be a good solution? [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 21:47, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

: Proposal 3 (nuking bug fix mods, but specifically USSEP) was always my more desired option, so i'm perfectly fine with that! Whether we go for bug fix compendium (losing specific mod fix mentions on individual pages) or removing mod fix mentions entirely, I'm in agreement. I just do not feel it is wise to have UESP continue to advertise mods this way. They can still make their own namespace like many others do regardless. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 23:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

:: I haven't read this entire discussion, but as a new player and new wiki user, I oppose the removal of the word "official" for the official patches. Learning how to play Skyrim and trying to find what you're looking for on the wiki is confusing enough (especially with the lack of centralized pages in the wiki!!!). The word official assures me that it's an actual official patch and not a mod. Plus, why do all that work to remove one word wiki-wide when that one word isn't hurting anything ? Seems like a lot of busy-work. Re: USSEP, I have liked seeing what things that mod "fixes" on the pages, because I find it interesting, although I don't use any mods because I play on Amazon Luna so I don't think I can use mods ??? Plus it seems like keeping the info would be very useful for wiki users who do use mods or that mod in particular (I assume most users who mod their game DO use that mod??). But I understand why the wiki wouldn't want to advertise one mod over all others.

:: " However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach." . . . UESP allows deleting things off the Talk pages ? Another wiki that I frequent does NOT allow things to be deleted from talk pages or even the user's own talk pages and the patrollers enforce that. - [[Special:Contributions/2603:6081:5901:43E9:A12E:FF54:25BC:8562|2603:6081:5901:43E9:A12E:FF54:25BC:8562]] 13:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I see what you mean regarding the Official term, and I am fine with keeping it for those reasons if others agree. As for the talk page comments, they are against UESP rules to be deleted yes- that is exactly why I pointed it out as an example of Arthmoor's behaviour. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 15:09, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." is a much more useful opproach than removing them all. By removing them all we are not promoting certain mods but what do users gain? An almost useless section of bugs that they still need to search for ways to fix it, albeit more difficult than before. Treat all mods equally and list them all actually benefits users so those who are against Arthmoor and his project can have other choices shown to them. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:23, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: One issue with listing them all is simply because of USSEP's abuse towards smaller mods, abusing strike systems and using general harassment to get them taken down. On the other hand, I personally do not believe most people are using UESP to find fixes for specific mods. It's much easier to just search "gamename bug desc mod fix reddit". But this is personal bias and would require more data. I am fine with either approach, and do still think just linking to a bug modfix repository page is a good way to go[[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 16:32, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::: I'm in favor of nuking all references to external third-party mods on gamespace pages. I don't care one way or the other about Arthmoor as a person or what he does or doesn't do that causes controversy, but it has been something that has slightly bothered me for years and years that we are explicitly endorsing third-party modifications to the game on the gamespace pages. The UESPWiki's job should be to document the games as they ship from Bethesda. Listing bugs and saying "This is fixed by Patch X.xx.yy" in reference to official patches is the most I think we should be doing. If there is a bug that is marked on the page, I don't think the burden is on UESPWiki to notate what mods, if any, fix any given bug. The modspace pages are there for documenting mods the wiki community deems worth documenting and the Unofficial Patch mods can live there, but the gamespace pages should be for documenting official Bethesda content. If someone wants to look up how to fix certain bugs, they can Google it. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 02:02, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::::::: Suggesting users to use Google to search for fixes? Google is quite not helpful in these situations. eg.Searching for "blood on the ice Beware the Butcher bug" does not yield any useful result at all. If any, since some bugs are engine bugs that can not be fixed by a esp, the bug section should be expanded to include those bugs and fixes for them such as Magic Effect Condition bug. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:17, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

{{od}}I do not think any change that involves providing less information to users than we currently are is a good one. Users come to UESP to figure out solutions to the bugs they encounter, especially the idea of expecting users to Google a solution to a bug in their vanilla game is a bad one as that is literally driving users away from this site to others. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 19:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:If listing mods individually isn't preferred, listing one is improperly endorsing it, listing none is harmful, and broadly saying there are mods to fix it is repetitive, then perhaps we could have a template at the top of the Bugs section on each page saying something along the lines of "For bugs not fixed by official patches, [[Skyrim:Mods|mods]] may be used to address and fix them at the cost of disabling achievements."? This would solve the issue of the same thing being listed under every bug that isn't fixed in an official patch while also not endorsing any particular mods. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 19:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::So far, I've counted 7 people for removing USP from Gamespace and 2 people against it. Though I concede that it is removing information from Gamespace articles, that information can remain accessible in Modspace. I don't think adding ''more'' mods to Gamespace pages is a good solution. If you were to argue that we would only include mods that exclusively fix bugs, then that still means USP shouldn't be listed, since it does more than just fixing bugs. I think it's fairer and far simpler to say that Gamespace should remain unmodded, and we should be helping users to find mods they want through Modspace instead of choosing a few mods to advertise in Gamespace. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 00:41, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

:::I assume this is for all gamespaces or just for Skyrim? If we stop listing unofficial mods on one game, it stands to reason we should also do the same for other gamespaces as well for consistency, right? Or is that a whole other can of worms for a different day? Regardless, I'm of the opinion still that gamespace pages need to be about documenting the game as Bethesda ships it and that it's not the place to be documenting unofficial third-party content on. Nuking all references to third-party bug fixes or other unofficial third-party content is still the ideal outcome in my opinion. That's what the various mod namespaces can function for. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 13:55, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

:::: Yes, earlier in the discussion we've come to the agreement that it's on all gamespaces. I also like Mindtraitor's above idea of "For bugs not fixed by official patches, [[Skyrim:Mods|mods]] may be used to address and fix them at the cost of disabling achievements." and think that's a great way to go. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 14:20, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

::::: I think that for people that have encountered a bug, removing the specific mod from the gamespace page that fixes it is still a step in the wrong direction for me. Sending people down the google/reddit rabbit hole just seems counterproductive. I do think however we should encourage, and enable, the listing of other mods that fix these bugs in gamespace in the bug template itself as a way of de-emphizing this specific set of "patches". If a bug is fixed by an Official patch that should be the only patch listed for each version of the game, we should be able to presume that the vast majority of players are playing with an up to date game. I do agree that for non-bugs this is porbably an entirely different view point, the rather well known Skyrim mine standing out as an example... it not being "fixed" doesn't really break the game, in the same way that Oblivions vampirism "cure" does. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 04:00, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

::::::I have been of the opinion that not documenting things would be against what a wiki stands for, removing mentions of bugs, fixed by mods or official patches either, would be detrimental. Removing mention of things that remedy bugs would hinder people in the game-play process. I have never been an achievement hunter even though i have most of them, Bethesda's decision to revoke me getting them is annoying at the least and mildly infuriating at most. Discord user LeviTheMetalGuy.{{uns|207.178.121.210|04:19, 5 April 2026 (UTC)}}

== Is it time to merge the Shivering namespace into the Oblivion namespace? ==

This was discussed many years ago, and it was decided not to go ahead with it. However, with the release of Oblivion Remastered I think it's time. The Dragonborn namespace was merged into the Skyrim namespace after the release of the Special Edition, when Dragonborn was fully integrated into the base game. Shivering Isles is now in the same position: Remastered fully integrates it into the base game, so I would say that the namespaces should now be merged.

It also brings up the question of Morrowind. It's obviously not in the same situation as Oblivion and Skyrim (for now), but I don't know if it makes sense to treat it differently.

[[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 21:33, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

:I've never been a fan of the expansion namespaces. It's especially frustrating when I want to compare equipment in Morrowind and have to open three different pages just to see what's available. With the release of Oblivion Remastered, I think makes sense to merge Shivering into Oblivion space, and therefore I agree that Morrowind being treated uniquely out of all of the games would be unusual and warrant merging its expansion namespaces too. As a user, I find superscripts like Dragonborn{{Dragonborn}} and Creation Club's{{CC}} to work perfectly in letting me know that something in the article belongs to an expansion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:52, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::From what I have heard, the Dragonborn namespace merge was quite a bit of work. I wasn't around yet for that, but if true, we should get ahead while we can. When TES VI releases we'll have much great priorities than this so it's better to do this sooner rather than later. The precedent put forth by Sheridan seems valid, seems like the exact same thing as Special Edition, so for consistency, we should have Shivering stuff in the main Oblivion-space. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 00:02, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I'd also support the merge, long thought we should have done this. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: Merging namespaces is a massive amount of wiki work that needs a dedicated team for its feasibility. Many articles within the expansion pack namespaces aren't even complete in their own right, especially Morrowind's expansion packs. Articles that still need images, dialogue, and even need to be wiki-fied in the first place. I understand the desire for simplicity that comes from the merging of the expansion spaces, but I do not see a large enough payoff in the improvement of the reader's access to the site in such projects relative to the massive effort it will require; unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams. I am not inherently opposed to this happening to namespaces, but I believe gamespace for Oblivion and Morrowind both have many larger issues that need addressing before this is seriously considered. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 01:26, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that they should be merged as the expansion is base game now due to Oblivion remastered.--[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 02:16, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::Of course, I appreciate it's a lot of work, especially for a purely volunteer website. But if we leave them as is, then there will be an incongruity between the Oblivion and Skyrim namespaces. And let's say that from TES VI onwards we decide to keep all expansions in the main namespace from the beginning. Morrowind and Oblivion will become increasingly anachronistic. And the Dragonborn Merge Project obviously suffered from having to figure everything out for the first time. Now that we know what to do, it will simplify the process at least a little bit. I just think that there's a good chance that the merges will end up being inevitable, depending on our approach to future games and their DLC. It's better to start early, since as [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] points out TES VI will obviously become the main priority when it releases. Even if it is still years away. Right now there's not a lot going on in TES world, apart from new content for ESO. If not now, when? [[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 13:43, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::The "when" is already described in my message above - "unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams."
:::::::As I've laid out above, these namespaces are already neglected by editors as is. To put in perspective, the UESP started an effort to document every item in each game on individual pages in their namespaces last year, and this project has seen almost zero progress since its announcement due to a fundamental lack of editors simply contributing to it in the first place.
:::::::Who are we proposing do all of this work? I do not believe it would be fair to expect the very few active editors in gamespace to put this on their plate without any plans or commitment from the wider community. Wanting the merge to happen is great, but a want is not enough to produce results. Again - I do not see the net benefit to our readers in comparison to instead sourcing and spending such massive effort on actually completing documentation in these namespaces in the first place. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 14:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:The merging for Oblivion would also make sense from a technical perspective as, unlike the Morrowind or Skyrim expansions, the Shivering Isles content was added to oblivion.esm directly. There's no shivering.esm like there are tribunal.esm, bloodmoon.esm, dawnguard.esm, hearthfire.esm, and dragonborn.esm. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 14:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::What I think is being misunderstood here is why the Dragonborn-Skyrim namespace merge finally ended up happening. It wasn't because the esms merged, at least not directly. The main issue was that Skyrim continued to get new content through the Creation program, and that new content was using bits an pieces from Dragonborn and Skyrim equally, so it was nearly impossible to figure out where exactly to place a quest. Something might start in Solstheim, then move to Skyrim proper, or vice versa, with equal bits of each.

::This just isn't the case for the remaster. Things are pretty clearly still delineated between SI and OB content, and the small number of new quests added have stuck to one area. There isn't a bunch of other random new official content being added to the game (at least, as far as we are currently aware), so there isn't a real reason to merge them at this time. It's a back end thing that really doesn't affect most editors or readers, and so the amount of effort involved (which ended up being significantly more than expected) is just not worth it. People want the merge just because they want it. But what it really boils down to is not typing two different letters for some pages. That's just not a good enough reason for all the effort, and a botched merge could be devastating for the wiki. It's not all that easy to just "undo" if it goes wrong. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:12, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::At this point a merge isn't worth the hassle. As Jeancey said above, the Dragonborn merge happened not because of Special Edition, but because of Creation Club, where they started releasing content that could no longer be delineated. As far as I know, the additional content in OB Remastered Deluxe is contained entirely within Cyrodiil, and doesn't cross over to the Isles at all, like Knights of the Nine.

:::While we've already agreed that we won't do separate namespaces for DLCs and expansions in the future, where separate namespaces already exist, the only viable reason to remove such a delineation is when the delineation itself is no longer viable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:03, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::This merge would be the ideal state of the wiki if all work could be done flawlessly with a bot. But it can't. Considering that number of edits dropped 78% from 2024 to 2025, the idea is effectively dead in the water. Renaming so many core content pages also carries negative effects by breaking external links and may be bad for search engine optimization, at least in the short term. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::Dillonn said exactly what I was thinking. While in some respects, having Oblivion all as one namespace might be ideal, we learned from the Dragonborn merge just how much work that is, especially for the bot programmers. I'm chronically ill and have made a point of cutting back on the amount of work I'm doing. I don't see it being feasible, at least not for me, to go through all that effort when there's very little gain, and it would introduce the SEO and link-breaking issues Dillonn mentioned. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:36, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace ==

Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace

Hello everyone. I'm proposing, with a proof of concept prototype, of a way to wrap all the dialogue on the Bladespace into neat little dialogue boxes that are cleaner, more compact and directly show the difference between conversation partners. (For the short version, [[User:Probored1/Sandbox2|just open this page]] and scroll down to see the dialogue box in question.)

I’d like to open a discussion about improving how we present dialogue across the Blades namespace. I know you're all used to it by now but give me a chance to lay my case. The current system, using colon indents (: / ::) along with two italicized apostrophes for NPC lines and three bold apostrophes for player lines has worked for a long time, after all no one has felt the need to change it after 30 years.

However, I find it increasingly unsatisfying. Long conversations turn into either densely crammed or porous walls of text that are hard to follow. The visual distinction between NPC and non-dialogue lines feels dated and inconsistent, and readability on mobile is often poor. While some namespaces have nicer custom dialogue layouts ([[Battlespire:Scamp|Battlespire being the best example]]), and others have attempted to build their own (See: [[User:Salamangkero/Template 1|Gheart's and Salamangkero's proposal for Morrowind]]), those approaches are too manual and were created simply to present data in a nicer flow rather than actually present it. As we're building up the Blades namespace, from which dialogue input into its pages is still relatively in its infancy, we've got a chance to build a primary dialogue wrapper first to then apply to the rest of the pages.

At the moment; take a look at [[Blades:Saashi]]. It is a mess of dialogue where you need to strain and recenter your eyes everytime to find out what is a normal text line and which one is italicized, and thats not even mentioning how messy trying to figure out where the indents could be on the longer conversations.

Here is an example taken from the page:

╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗

====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."''

╚════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

To address this messiness, I created a working proof-of-concept built within [[Template:DialogueTreeSetup]], which uses [[Module:DialogueTreeSetup]] (built with the existing Scribunto Lua extension).The usage is very simple. You wrap all your existing dialogue like this (without the \):

<pre>{{DialogueTreeSetup: <all your text here> }}</pre>

A simple wrapper that goes around your entire text without changing any of it, but using the already existing model of colons, indents and apostrophes to build the new model. Heres what it looks like:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/User:Probored1/Sandbox2

Compare the above to its original

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Blades:Saashi

In fact I'll even post an example here.

╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
<pre>
{{DialogueTreeSetup:

====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."'

}}
'</pre>

╚════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

turns into:

{{DialogueTreeSetup|
====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."''}}

Does this look better? I hope it does. I vibecoded it so its got some documentation issues, but it uses the Lua Scribunto extension thats already on the wiki. It automatically converts old <pre>:</pre> <pre>''</pre> <pre>'''</pre> dialogue into clean, boxed sections. It uses background (#efe1bc) thats usually used for code blocks. It distinguishes based off of color NPC lines from Player lines. It converts automatically the following : , :: , '' , ''' , /n and without any user input. Its basically something you can copy paste at a page without worrying about reformatting the whole thing. I made it so that it works with the already existing dialogue format, and that you can still use it without changing a single thing about it.It detects when a line of dialogue doesnt start with a : or :: and immediately stops the dialogue box to let the wiki text work without interference. It works with ===Headlines=== tooIts got much tighter and more professional appearance with minimal whitespace and colorblind-friendly contrastAgain, it works with your existing workflow, just wrap the old text.

However, there is one major limitation: performance. I can use it for this page because I only wrapped a small amount of text. But on larger pages (such as Blades:Saashi), it takes a whopping '''11 seconds''' for the page to load for me. This makes it completely unacceptable for site wide use in its present form. I was told a PHP extension using the same logic would bring load times down to roughly 2–4 seconds, which would make it practical.I am thus ''not'' proposing this as a finished solution yet, but something like this does deserve a discussion. I would appreciate your thoughts on the general direction and visual style. Would you be open to a PHP extension of this dialogue wrapper as the base template for all Blades pages? Are there any changes to the colors, spacing, or behavior you would like to see? Would you like to see it in other spaces? I’m happy to refine it based on feedback. Thank you for taking the time to read this. [[User:Probored1|Probored1]] ([[User talk:Probored1|talk]]) 03:04, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:'''Lightly Oppose''': This is an interesting proposal, and I commend the work done on the Lua-based template! That said, I see a few cracks in this idea.

:First, a correction: The current dialogue formatting used on most namespaces is not 30 years old. I believe it's as old as the ESO namespace. Before that, UESP focused on in-line dialogue conversations, especially for ''Oblivion'' ([https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:Permalink/2744956 Example]), and it was awful for scannability. It was only a few years ago that these started being converted over. Concerning the proposal, I don't see much of an issue with the standard format that would justify adding even one extra second of load times to pages, let alone two to four seconds at best with PHP. Load times are one of the most important SEO metrics, and also bog down both the reader and editor experience, making clicking around the namespace a pain. Is there a way to implement this using CSS or JavaScript instead? Perhaps it can be an optional gadget for readers who need the extra visual separation of dialogue blocks.

:As for your specific styling itself, am I missing something or is this simply adding color to the bold text and a background color box around the block? That's introducing various related issues like dark mode compatibility, WCAG accessibility e.g. contrast standards, and the clunkiness of having code blocks everywhere. The dialogue sections of pages are virtually all dialogue except for a short intro phrase. This also adds another step to documenting dialogue, which I expect should be kept as simple as possible considering Blades documentation is on a tight deadline. Improved formatting can wait until after the shutdown. Another issue is sitewide consistency; for example, colors have a specific meaning in some ESO dialogue and could potentially see expanded uses in other namespaces to reflect different types of choices.

:In any case, I don't want this post to sound negative, and I think you're doing a good job looking for ways to improve the site's visuals. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 04:10, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::Regarding the dark mode compatibility, as well as the unmentioned mobile functionality, this can be addressed with CSS with only small Lua tweaks in much the same way all the other template formatting is done. (I mostly just need to get a spare 30 minutes to look at it.) '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 05:15, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::'''H'''ey thanks for the quick reply. I have no arguments against SEO, and its loading times are absolutely what will sink or swim this project. As I said, most of this project is vibecoded from a LLM, and while I stopped experimenting with it, a few of the other admins and users experienced with the site's CSS did take a look at it and offer similar criticism related to switching to another method. However, I possess no coding experience and one of the purposes of this project was simply to get myself familiar with theses tools in the first place. One of the admins stated they were interested in taking a look at it just to see if it could be taken anywhere. As such, I can't actually answer if CSS, Javascript, or turning it into a simple gadget would work.

::On the other hand, I was told early on about the issues with dark mode. I had practiced trying to get CSS compability by assigning it a template to [[Template:DialogueTree/styles.css]] and I think its in a working state, and can be edited in without too much trouble. The boxes themselves are inspired by code blocks yes, but I was definitely planning on adding differences between both the player and the NPC to differentiate it more than the original text as seen here

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/261887896930353155/1488300085279330314/Capture_decran_le_2026-03-30_a_18.07.20.png?ex=69cd9877&is=69cc46f7&hm=f4dc68a2e8b53ac4984eb6ac82d0a474763caa94208922c75f2201be4e30c189&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

::However due to feedback I received on the discord, I was told it would look better if I simply went back to using italics and boldness. At the end of the day I simply wanted a wrapper that would make this text readable, and I think I largely succeeded in that. Its far more pleasant to my eye and makes reading theses pages less of a issue for me.

::On the matter of it changing how dialogue gets documented...No, that was precisely the point of this wrapper. Nothing gets changed. Yes it adds a single additional step of adding a {DialogueSetupTree| } in every page, but the actual format we used before did not break whatsoever. Nothing has changed in the way we submit the lines between NPC and player, the indexing and colons and formatting we use. Its simple given a touchup on top of it.

::On the matter of sidewide consistency, there is next to no consistency from one game to the next. Perhaps Skyrim and Blades are similar, but I provided evidence that Battlespire and Morrowind use different dialogue formats inherent to their properties. [[Daggerfall:Totem, Totem, Who Gets the Totem?|Daggerfall uses code blocks and italics]] to reflect that most dialogue is delivered from one direction only. Skyrim has NPC with NPC conversations that do not address the player and [[Skyrim:Fjotra|are different even on the same page]]....The point is that there is no sitewide consistency between different games. This wrapper is for Blades and exists solely for Blades. Perhaps a different one could be used for a different game, but this is what I made for it nonetheless. With kind regards, [[User:Probored1|Probored1]] ([[User talk:Probored1|talk]]) 05:35, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:::Most of the CSS isn't in the Lua Module anymore, and is back in the /style.css page, for tan-desktop I copied the exact CSS out of the Module. For dark mode i've adjusted the colors obviously. I haven't looked at mobile yet, I think that's just margin tweaking though. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 06:10, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::::I certainly like the idea of making dialogue more visually distinct from the text around it, and I would suggest that should be applied to every modern namespace (ESO and Skyrim as well), not just Blades.
::::What I don't like is the idea of using a code script to change the expected output of wiki formatting to some obfuscated alternative. <code><nowiki>'''</nowiki></code> is bold, <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> is italic, <code><nowiki>:</nowiki></code> is indentation, and those should always produce the expected output. They should never produce (in the same order) blue text and bold text (using the linked screenshot as the example). If the aim is to change the formatting, we should change the formatting properly, and use a template for the display box, e.g. (colours are arbitrary):
::::<code><nowiki>{{Dialogue/start}}</nowiki></code>
::::{| style="border: 1px solid #E9B759; background: #F5DEB3;"
|-
|
:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''
|}
::::<code><nowiki>{{Dialogue/end}}</nowiki></code>
::::Incidentally I don't like the coloured text in the proposal (or the stupid linebreaks in the source), so I took those out of this example. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 09:59, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

UESPWiki:Community Portal

2026-04-05T04:00:10Z

Kiz: /* Proposal: On the (potential) de-listing of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (from gamespace) */ cmt

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|Project:Community Portal/Archive 54|Archive 54|Aug 2018 – Dec 2018
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 55|Archive 55|Jan 2019 – Dec 2019
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 56|Archive 56|Dec 2019 – Dec 2020
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 57|Archive 57|Jan 2021 – Aug 2021
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 58|Archive 58|Sep 2021 – Feb 2023
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 59|Archive 59|Feb 2023 – Jan 2024
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 60|Archive 60|Jan 2024 – Dec 2024
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 61|Archive 61|Jan 2025 – Jul 2025
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This is the '''Community Portal''', the main discussion forum for community-wide discussions about [[UESPWiki:About|UESP]]'s operations, policies, design, and improvement.

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'''Before starting a discussion here''', please review the other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.
<table id="genMidColor" style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:
{{Bullet Link|[[:Category:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]|A list of policies and guidelines, which each have individual pages; their talk pages are the best place to discuss these policies (see [[#Active Discussions|Active Discussions]] for links to active policy discussions).}}
{{Bullet Link|Administrator Noticeboard|If you have a request that requires an [[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrator]], you may want to post your comments there.}}
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In addition, past discussions from the Community Portal can be found at:
{{Bullet Link|[[/Archives|CP Archives]]|Lists all of the past discussions from the Community Portal page, including major discussions and chronlogical archives.}}
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;<big>Active Discussions</big>
Many discussions of community-wide interest are held on pages other than the community portal. Discussions about specific policies belong on the policy talk pages, for example. The following table lists other discussions that are currently in progress on other talk pages. If you start a discussion on another talk page, please add it to this list. If a discussion listed here has been inactive (i.e., no comments of any type in at least a week), please remove it from the list.

{| class="wikitable"
! Location !! Date started !! Topic !! Listed here by

|-
|}

== Port Starfield Place Logic ==

Currently NPCs have a "loc" field which is text and is typically a link to a location. There is a desire to build automatic "People" tables which are derived from data so that we move away from large templates to represent the people in a location. In Starfield wiki, there is a "In Place" template which populates the Metatemplate variables with information about the place, and then this data is pulled by the Starfield People tables.

The In Place template is used extensively in various summary templates (like NPC Summary, where it replaces the loc parameter), however it can be used independently if an NPC can appear in multiple places.

* [https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Template:In_Place In Place Template]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Autopeople Autopeople template, which uses the data]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Starfield:Cydonia_People&action=edit Example Usage]

While copying over this logic is very simple, migration of current NPC pages is a much larger task which will likely be mostly manual. For example, many NPCs only have their primary location on their summary page, however each location that they can appear (temples, inns, etc) will also have the NPC information on it. All of this data would need to be consolidated to the NPC table for the data to be consistent.

In addition to this, to have automated People tables, a "Services" parameter will need to be added to the NPC pages, however that is a much more minor change.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]])
: The notion of all of that information being duplicated as is sounds like a ringing endorsement for changing it so it's in only one place to me.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]])

::I think this makes sense - anything that reduces duplication is a good plan. Looks like "place" in the Starfield NPC Summary wraps the In Place template but is still overridden when "loc" is defined, so nothing would break immediately and we can take the time to decide which things do and don't need to be edited. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:57, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::In Starfield Wiki, I just kinda migrated one list of people at a time to have place and be auto-generated, until I ran out of lists to migrate. It was a pretty clean transition. Also added a category (Starfield-NPCs_Without_Place) to try to figure out where the rest were as many were not on any People lists. It certainly doesn't have to be some big "Do it quick as everything is broken until it's done" kind of transition.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]]) 21:39, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::: I don't like this suggestion as-is. The "loc" parameter is not strictly defined enough to be useable for auto-populating People tables. See for instance the [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online:Molag_Kena&oldid=3381525 rich formatting] on [[Online:Molag Kena]]. If we already need to add a "Services" parameter to pages for this to work, then we need a second, stricter location parameter as well. To me, that seems like too much work to replace what is currently there. I don't see any issue with manually populating our People tables as desired, particularly when most of our namespaces have a (fairly arbitrary) "People vs NPCs" distinction. Those tables are not hard to maintain and are pretty much static for the older games. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::I agree with Legoless. We should at least try this on the test wiki before implementing anything, particularly with regards to ESO: we distinguish between generic NPCs and non-generics. Generic NPCs don't go in the People table in Online articles, they're typically noted in the paragraph following the infobox. Additionally, the loc field is not a reliable place for us to be getting headers for People tables: some NPCs in towns and such have very specific and arbitrary locations, like "West of (CityName's Stable)". Like Legoless said, the rich text throws a wrench in there. It's often necessary rich text, too. We also can't just pull strictly from Online links in the loc parameter to sort NPCs under People table headings: some NPCs have stuff like "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" in their loc parameter. That's two Online links in the loc parameter: would the automated process try to put the NPC under both places, or make a new header? "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" is a very arbitrary and limited heading, and while we often do file NPCs under arbitrary and specific headings, it's much easier to manage them when People pages are created manually.

:::::ESO's People pages are also mostly finished: yes, new content is being developed yearly, but there aren't a lot of NPCs who need to be put on a people table at this point. Most of the legwork lies in putting the People tables from smaller locations like [[Online:Fharun Stronghold|Fharun Stronghold]] on their own pages. I do appreciate the effort to try and make things easier, but this could hurt more than it helps. If this were suggested earlier in ESO's lifespan, I'd have less objections to it, but at this point, it seems unnecessary to port everything like this when the system we already have works. —[[User:MolagBallet|MolagBallet]] ([[User talk:MolagBallet|talk]]) 15:31, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

== Item Redesign Project Proposal ==

Hello, I'd like to discuss a project I've worked on a little bit on my own, but would like to greatly expand and formalize a little. The Item Redesign Project would aim to fill in the largest gap remaining in UESP coverage of The Elder Scrolls as a whole, and the most requested area of coverage the UESP regularly receives from readers. This will also benefit the UESP itself by improving its SEO. Most of the pages that would be worked on or created for this project would help UESP be more easily found by people searching, as sites that don't have specific pages rank low compared to ones that do. We'd essentially be starting to compete for item page rankings finally.

The focus of this project will be documenting, expanding, improving, and creating pages related to items. There are multiple steps to this, and multiple things to consider.

The overall goal would be to move away from just having list articles, to having actual articles for items, along with maintaining and improving existing lists, while also creating more. Most of this work will be for Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO, but other games may be worth considering for this project.

===First Steps===
The first goal towards this will be a bot run to mark existing item pages as in the scope of this project, and considered for making sure it will match our site standards for items and standardize them. There will also be a series of bot run to create new start articles. I personally was against this recently, but an argument from Legoless really opened my eyes to why we should consider doing this. If we had made these pages years ago, we'd have had years worth of edits to improve upon them. If you (the UESP) build(s) it, they (editors) will come. There is just an extra degree of unwillingness for a person to create a page from scratch over improving an existing page. Take for instance [[Lore:Nerevarine]], an article about a fairly important character in Elder Scrolls lore, who did not have an actual lore page before last year. But after I decided to throw a blurb from [[Lore:Hero]] onto its own article, roughly 2k bytes of text, it has expanded greatly into 50k bytes of text. By simply creating an actual article, editors showed up who wanted that to be a better one.

So this means this process will ultimately involve:

*The creation of a project page for the Item Redesign Project
*Creation of a redesign template similar to previous ones for other redesign project (like [[UESPWiki:Oblivion NPC Redesign Project|OBNCRP]]).
*Creation of a [[UESPWiki:Style Guide|Style Guide]] page for items
*A series of bot runs to add the template to pages.
*A series of bot runs to create the new individual item pages.
===Item Page Improvement===
The ultimate goal of each indivdual item page will be:

*Provide a physical description of the item
*Take a picture of the item
*Present technical information (primarily through infoboxes)
*Have any enchanting-related information covered
*Cover any particularly unique strategies/options/features of the item
*Find and list any dialogue related to it
*Provide use information on the item (one existing example of this information can be found on [[Morrowind:Broom]] as an example)

I think this should ultimately create a high standard of content that is reasonably achievable by editors.
===List Pages===
[[File:MW-item-War Axes.jpg|thumb|right|An example of a group image, useful for a list page]]We can also provide improvements for list pages, primarily by identifying gaps in what people might want for list articles. For example, there was not a list for [[Oblivion:Longswords|Longswords in Oblivion]] and a few similar topics until the recent work of Eve and Leopard. These definitely make sense as a target for lists, and there are certainly more like these out there still. One other example comes from [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild Armor Set]], which I created towards trying to present a high quality page that lists all relevant information related to an item set. It provides images of the set, how to acquire it, a condensed table with info on the set, common info related to all items, and then the individual pages for each item of the set. I think this would be a good standard for any similar set of equipment in the mainline games.

In general, I think the steps towards improving list pages would include:
*Identifying missing list pages that may be desirable
*Providing general information about the list (for example, providing UESP editor written descriptions for [[Morrowind:Base Weapons]] instead of just using NPC quotes)
*Providing unique image(s) for the list (like a group set for whole sets of items similar to Morrowind efforts)

===Some Existing Pain Spots===
I also think some focus should be given to some existing pain spots. For example something that I would see as part of this would be the individual item pages for [[Online:Furnishings]]. A tremendous amount of fantastic work has been done to get these pages as documented as they are, and it is by itself one of the single biggest segments of the UESP Wiki making up almost a fourteenth of the UESP's existing page count. One of the main ways these pages could be improved is by having editors help add prose descriptions to them. Virtually every ESO furnishing has an image and infobox, but not a physical description of the item written. One step towards this could be another botrun providing a very basic description, hopefully indicating to people that one is desired. For example, one suggestion provided by The Rim of the Sky:

''<x> is a <size> <type> furnishing item in the <category> category. It is available from <main source> and other sources.''

This should be doable by a botrun. A further one written by a human is still desirable, here is an example I put together on [[Online:Petrified Watcher]].

The other major existing pain spot to my knowledge is the individual item pages for Blades. It's nice that Blades is as documented as it is, but we should be able to do a similar bot run for these items as well, and likewise getting human touch ups for the actual description. I did a few tests, [[Blades:Chaurus_Helmet_(divine)|one example]], that may be considered for both developing the bot run text as well as a minor example of human-based additions that could improve these pages.

===Final Thoughts===
This will ultimately be a very big undertaking, but starting this project will be worth it to finally fill in one of the last major gaps of UESP coverage. It will also be one of the most truly substantial bumps we can give ourselves on the SEO front. This proposal will hopefully serve as a good starting point towards the standardization of item pages, as well as for discussion about this proposed project itself. Obviously any insight or suggestions from any editors would be greatly appreciated, and I hope this is a project that the UESP will want to take part in!

One of the bigger considerations for a very significant amount of the work on the project is related to the bot side of this. I have spoken with a few people ([[User:Daveh|Daveh]] and [[User:RobinHood70|RobinHood70]]) about assisting with this project via data pulls and bot runs, and both gave pretty hopeful answers about potentially assisting us in getting those done. Use data for Morrowind, for example, has already been created, and similar bot runs have been performed before. This will give this project a decent head start towards its final goal.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you wish to join this project! --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:35, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:I have long been in support for individual item pages and fully support this proposal. Despite what some have suggested I believe it is genuinely much more helpful and not simply a means of "competing" with other wikis. It is such a useful thing that can be helpful in giving more detailed descriptions of locations and other data that I have occasionally been forced to use other wikis for when our lists weren't adequate. Of course another helpful thing will be having images of individual items. Many times have I found myself needing a picture of a specific weapon or armor piece only to see that it only exists in a group picture.
:Anyways, I digress, I support the proposal! - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 04:43, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::I'd like to add my support as well, individual item pages would be great! --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 04:50, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I'm onboard with this project. I think it has merit, even if it's not how things have been done in the past. Anything we can do to add more content, without hindering usability, should be seriously considered. The SEO side of this shouldn't be understated; if it's going to make an appreciable difference, then it needs to happen. The scope is large, but that doesn’t necessarily make it unmanageable.
:::*A focused project design page that lays out clear examples and provides the groundwork for necessary templates and transclusions will be crucial to its success.
:::*Page creation will also need to be a key focus. Having a good base page so that those without knowledge of the project page can add information without their work going to waste is important. This will help reduce the overall work those that do know about the project may have to do. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 05:05, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::: I have long been in favour of individual item pages for the reason mentioned above by AKB: by failing to create them, we have lost out on years of crowdsourced help with tackling this daunting task. Creating these pages has been a prominent suggestion from readers since our [[UESPWiki:Survey Results/Other Comments|2012 user survey]] at the earliest. I like UESP's existing item lists for navigation, but there's never been anything stopping us from simply adding item links to those existing tables.

::::: On the above proposal, I do feel it isn't necessary to have a dialogue check on every item page when 90%+ will not have any relevant dialogue associated with them. We had discussions in the past on where best to document dialogue (quest vs NPC pages), and I think we settled on NPC pages as the home for dialogue / dialogue checks. It's an extra piece of work for editors to confirm "no" on thousands of items. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:39, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::Sounds good to me! Proper descriptions, images and location information I think would be the main reader benefit. For list pages, ideally we would be able to pull info to them from the individual pages with things like <nowiki>{{#listsaved:}}</nowiki> rather than duplicating the info on multiple pages. Regarding dialogue specifically, I also don't really think that would be necessary unless it's something like the Savant quote from Morrowind which talks about that item specifically. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:30, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I just want to say that I fully support this project and the ideas that have been presented so far. Although I don't have any suggestions, I too believe that it would vastly improve how item information is presented compared to the current format, and I look forward to seeing how this project progresses. —[[User:Leopard|Leopard]] ([[User talk:Leopard|talk]]) 14:54, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I support this project and absolutely hope and pray there will be at least a base templated sentence we can input for Furnishings, as this is a huge section as stated above. At one time, I had dreams of making each furnishing page quite robust, but not everyone had been in favor of it. Thankfully, more editors are starting to help fill in these gaps and the oft-underused sections of the Online Furnishing Summary template can now be used! '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 16:13, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} While I agree with the need for separate item pages for useful items (weapons, armor, decorations, etc), I want to call out one set of items that I believe should NOT get separate pages. ESO Contraband Items I do not believe would be helped by having separate pages. We already do really well in this regard with our updated lists, and the items don't really have any additional information that the lists provide. One thing I think we CAN do better in this regard are better pages on the contraband TYPES. Which NPCs are the sources of which contraband types, information on likelihood of drops based on difficulty, etc. In addition, I don't think we need separate pages for each part of the ESO armor styles (i.e. we don't need a separate page for Altmer Style Shoulders, Altmer Style Belt, etc.) The existing pages for Styles could be improved, namely by moving the pictures of the entire outfit from the gallery into the lead (or into the infobox maybe). There might be other types of items where a separate page doesn't really make sense, but I'd have to look into it. Off the top of my head, having separate pages for, say, Rubedite Ore and Rubedite Ingots, or for some of the junk items in ESO. The MMO nature of the game, I think, changes things for many of these item types. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:11, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:Oh yes, I 100% agree ESO should be more of an exception due to the way the game works. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 17:22, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::A much needed change. Before I edited the wiki I was a frequent user, and it was one of my common complaints that individual item pages did not exist. Like Jeancey mentioned, some exceptions should exist.[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 01:13, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

:: I support the change, certainly helpful for many item lists, but I do agree, that some lists such as eso's contraband should stay the way it is.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 13:16, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

::: From an seo standpoint, every item should have its own page. Google lists us lower or even will list the wrong page when we don't have that. I've posted examples in the discord before. List pages aren't going away, but there's nothing wrong with having the info in both a list and on a page. This also allows for us to add more info like pictures of locations, maps where the items can be found, etc. [[User:Eckserah|Eckserah]] ([[User talk:Eckserah|talk]]) 16:13, 12 July 2025 (UTC)

== Honorary Featured Status -- Julian LeFay ==

Julian LeFay has passed away. While it is not normal procedure, I would like to propose that we grant his article honorary status as a featured article and bump it to the front page immediately. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:40, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
: I'm all for this. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:: Seconding this, the page has enough content but hopefully we can improve it in any way we can to better honor him. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::: I agree, there are few who've had as much of an impact on these games as he had and it would be a neat way to honour him. [[User:Theolaa|Theolaa]] ([[User talk:Theolaa|talk]]) 05:00, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::: Yes, of course. RIP [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 05:32, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::: Agreed.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 09:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Agree [[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 10:16, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Agree.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:52, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Featuring it now on the front page sounds like a great idea. I'm not sure what you mean by "honorary featured status", but whether or not it fits the quality of a Featured Article should be decided later, at a time when it can be considered fairly against the criteria, so it should not be categorised or starred as a Featured Article. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:03, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: I agree. In whichever way it should be done. But at the least, immediately. '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 14:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::: Agreed. [[User:The Entity|The Entity]] ([[User talk:The Entity|talk]]) 14:44, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Please do it. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 14:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} The [[Main Page/Featured Article|featured article]] has now been changed to Julian LeFay. Would we also like to change the Featured Image to [[Lore:Julianos|Julianos]], who was named after Julian? I would vote we display the [[:File:MER-art-The Hierophant.jpg|tarot card art]] for that, since this would be an honorary FI and the tarot card can't usually be nominated due to standard FI rules, the card itself having some really great artwork. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:23, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, sounds fitting -- [[User:SarthesArai|SarthesArai]] [[User Talk:SarthesArai|Talk]] 19:09, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:: +1 to snowball the Julianos FI. 20:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

::: +1 Julianos FI, but I might pick the TES2 statue instead since that was Julian's game. But either would be lovely. --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 21:24, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} Both the FA and FI have now been updated in honor of Julian, and will remain this way for at least the next month.
It is good that we are able to pay tribute to him like this, as I don't believe many of the more casual TES fans even knew who he was. His death didn't get a lot of coverage outside of TES circles either. As the creator of one of the most popular video game series and influential fantasy worlds of contemporary times, he should definitely get more credit for his legacy, and I don't feel like just one month is enough. I would like to propose that we also update some of the site logos and wordmarks to have the subtitle "In Memory Of Julian LeFay (1965 - 2025)" or some variation of it, similar to how the Ben 10 Wiki honors one of the show creators annually in their wiki wordmark:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/e/e6/Site-logo.png/revision/20240701050232 (Check [https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Site-logo.png file history] in case link is broken)

We can put this right under the "Elder Scrolls Pages" part of our main logo. Along with [[General:Vijay Lakshman|Vijay Lakshman]], [[General:Ted Peterson|Ted Peterson]], [[General:Christopher Weaver|Christopher Weaver]], Julian is one of the few people who can be credited with co-creating the franchise this wiki is based on. In the words of Bethesda Christopher Weaver, ''"If I’m credited with giving birth to The Elder Scrolls, then Julian deserves credit as the one who fathered it."'' He still had more ideas he wanted to share on the Wayward Realms and was taken from us too soon. I propose that we add this to the wordmark until at least the end of 2025 so that more people can remember him and learn just how much he did for the series. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 20:00, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

:I'd be for the idea absolutely. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 20:06, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

::I would suggest the [[MediaWiki:Tagline|Tagline]] and maybe the [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]], rather than the logo. That would work better for screen readers as well, which can't read text if put in an image. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:39, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::Hmm, something else we could do is grab the Julian LeFay entry from [[Main Page/Did You Know|Did You Know]] and take it out of the random selection so it's permanent, rather than part of the cycle. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:50, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

::::As a reader of the UESP, in my opinion Sitenotice would be the least invasive option while also not modifying the branding like the "Your source for The Elder Scrolls..." blurb. Messing with the logo wouldn't be ideal in my opinion since the text already on it is hard to clearly read on some smaller devices as it is since its colors blend into the logo like they do already. More text on the logo would just make it look more cluttered and muddy in my opinion. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 13:35, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I think putting the LeFay entry in the DYK blurb for the rest of the year could be a good move. I'm not on board with Sitenotice as a substitute since its purpose is in the name of being a Notice, any "notice" related to this would be the news article, unless we know what to link in the notice like say [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefay-passes-away-at-59 Imperial Library's touching tribute] I don't think its the best option. Tagline is also minimal since the font is tiny and most people just tune it out of their purview, so while I don't see it as a substitute I could see us doing something with it as well. Any concerns about the colors on the logo are solved by just making it white text with a black outline, and any concerns about it being small could be solved by making increasing the font size. Its not really about putting in everyone's face, its about modifying something consistent and sitewide to honor someone who was very important to us to show just how much they meant. We're still working on some logo mock-ups but we should have some options ready soon. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Suggestion to ban the usage of ai text generation for lore articles. ==

As we all know we are in the age of AI generation where AI has come along way and given there has been people, using ai for stuff in lore pages. With one user admitting to such in the altmer lore talk page. This could become problematic if its not addressed, its one thing to use ai for correcting grammar but to write lore page sections. I feel it like, downgrades the integrity of the uesp. So I recommend a total ban on using ai for such purposes and having a rule against the usage of ai. This spoken from a user that uses toolbarz website to generate my own ai stories but I have not once used ai to write stuff on lore articles or the uesp, using ai stuff on ones own user pages or fanfiction pages is fine but not on lore articles. There is a place for ai but I think people should be the main contributors not robots when it comes to informantion placed on lore pages. Since I've seen no sign of such a suggestion, I'm adding it in.[[User:TheVampKnight|TheVampKnight]] ([[User talk:TheVampKnight|talk]]) 01:40, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:I agree with banning the use of AI to write articles. Using AI to spellcheck is one thing, but using AI to write original prose is a big no. Right now it is nowhere near advanced enough to write about TES lore with accuracy. On top of that, the flow of AI writing never sounds natural. A lot of AI usage is also theft, since AI only knows how to copy and rearrange things, not create anything of substance. It has no place on wiki articles. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 01:53, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::AI, like Daedra, cannot create, only imitate, so I vote "strictly no AI slop in wiki content namespaces". [[User:DaExile|DaExile]] ([[User talk:DaExile|talk]]) 02:02, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::: I think we need to follow Wikipedia's (draft) policy on [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AI-generated content|AI-generated content]]: "Because of the pervasive presence of [LLMs] in everyday tools it is not possible to ban it entirely", but "[p]ersistently introducing computer-generated content in violation of Wikipedia policies and guidelines will be considered disruptive editing and can lead to a block from further editing."

::: The problem is that we have no way to know if someone is using AI to generate content as opposed to format/reword/spellcheck their own work. If an editor is continuously adding slop or hallucinated info to articles, we can treat it like any other form of disruptive editing. It's just one more thing we need to be conscious of when checking new edits. Unfortunately, it's a tricky one to spot. One of the telltale signs (like on [[Lore:Altmer]]) is the addition of massive amounts of well-written prose, often containing misinformation or poor/inaccurate citation. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:13, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::: Fully on board to ban it. Even if it can be hard to tell sometimes, it should be fully purged when detected. And when we have proof of a user using it (such as admitting to it) action should be taken. Removal of the AI generated prose and the usual warning into action system the UESP admins take would sound fair to me. Furthermore though, whilst I know we currently know of at least one user using AI generation, retroactive action should not be taken against them. Only if it continues. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:29, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I disagree, not because I think AI usage is good, but I think we already have policies in place that police the bad behavior that AI causes. We have rules against blatantly false information in articles, like AI hallucinations. We have standards of grammar and spelling. We have standards that articles should be easily comprehensible. I just don't see how "AI is now banned" is really useful in any way, when all of the things that AI does poorly are already covered by existing policy. However, but banning it, we run into problems with assuming good faith, when one person claims another user is using AI and the other user claims they aren't. How do you PROVE they are using AI, or are just bad/inserting headcanon into articles (which is, again, already against our policies). This is a situation where it seems like a good policy, but then doesn't really have any impact at all. We shouldn't be adding policies just to make ourselves feel like we are doing something. There just isn't a real problem here. One user used AI but we've already been dealing with it under existing policies. If that user continues to use AI (or otherwise add in blatantly false information), there are ways to deal with that, up to and including blocking that user from the wiki for repeatedly adding false information to the wiki.

:::::I just don't see what the problem is that this policy is trying to solve. We just don't have a rash of AI edits that wouldn't otherwise be not okay under existing policies... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:50, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::A first step will be to officially declare our policy to be against it so no one unknowingly somehow thinks it's a good idea. Beyond that, we should indeed want to err on the side of inaction. We don't want to witch hunt AI text or erroneously accuse people of it just because they like em dashes or something. But yeah, if they admit it, if they have no defense for bad info, etc., I'm all for removing any such edits with a sledgehammer.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:04, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I'm more in line with the views of Jeancy and Legoless here. There is very little we can do to know that it is generated content and also remain true to assume good faith. I personally also think that soon this kind of generation will be indistinguishable from human writing and any policy will be impossible to police. I know it's not a very popular opinion but AI is here, it's not going away, and it's only going to get better faster than anyone is ready for. The only path forward from my point of view is a path that outlines the responsible integration of human assisted AI generated material and not outright bans. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 19:00, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I also think banning it outright is impractical since it's not really enforceable. While articles ideally shouldn't include AI generated content (not just lore articles, any articles), I think Wikipedia's (draft) policy is still enough, as it already covers the core issues - biased, not verifiable, poor quality, inaccurate - and we don't really need to say any more than that. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:32, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::I agree with Legoless that we should largely use Wikipedia's policy. Regardless of how enforceable the policy is, we definitely need a formal rule against AI writing so that we can ensure that it is not encouraged from here on out, and so that we can remove any writing confirmed to be AI-written instead of having to keep proofreading and editing it into something salvageable. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Verified Creation Psuedospace Consolidation and potential Namespace ==

As previously discussed [[Project:Community Portal/Archive 60#Change to Verified Creation Namespace Initials|here]], there had been talks to change up the naming system for Verified Creations. It looks like we previously settled on just doing three letter prefixes, as seen with Blood and Snow (ie. a file named [[:File:BaS-npc-Rakoslod.png|BaS-npc-Rakoslod]]). However, an issue with this is that there's now a lot more Verified Creations than there were before, so much so that they're getting pumped out at a faster rate than we can come up with Psuedospaces for them. Another issue is that its hard to find these images in one place, as they all start with different prefixes. Its dysfunctional for each mod to get its own prefix when the Skyrim DLCs don't even have that any more. I propose we add VC5 in front of each of these photos so that they can more easily be searched up. They can keep the psuedospace prefix as well if desired, such as the aforementioned file which would be renamed to <code>VC5-BaS-npc-Rakoslod</code>, but going forward we would no longer have to invent and decide on a psuedospace suffix for every new VC (ie. if there's a Verified Creation that's very small in content we could just name the file "VC5-npc-Gary" if we feel like that's all it requires and call it a day, instead of the ''need'' to invent a new prefix). We would only have to come up with new psuedospaces if we find that a VC is big enough to benefit from one.

The current tally of VCs per year (8 in 2023, 50 in 2024, and 100 in 2025 so far) comes out to roughly 158 VCs total since the program launched. Each VC has different content, but they are all tied together by being part of the Verified Creator Program. Do we also want to give Verified Creations their own namespace, similar to Better Cities and Tamriel Rebuilt? Or do we just want to keep them in Skyrim Modspace? [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 23:56, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

:I think a proper Skyrim Verified Creations space would be a good way to corral them all. One downside to using multiple prefixes that I would anticipate is that a lot of files are going to be incorrectly named. Having them in one place to verify will be helpful. Additionally, seeing as how there are 100+ this year alone, agreeing on psuedospace prefixes is going to become tedious at best or simply ignored without any consensus. I'm not saying I am opposed to pseudospace prefixes; they will be great to help identify what VC they belong to. I think we should get an official consensus here on how to name them going forward so that the process is avoided. Something like use the first 3 letters of each word in the name and if there are not 3 words then some alternative solution. The same goes for what happens if multiple would have the same prefix. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 01:21, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::Given the sheer volume we're dealing with, it will quickly become hard to find unique 3-letter prefixes that actually represent the creation in question (as opposed to simply assigning random codes). Best to reserve them for the larger ones.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Regarding pseudospaces in general, that was agreed during the creation of the Modspace Project to be all or nothing to ensure consistency; i.e. all mods get pseudospaces, or none do, otherwise we have double standards. (My preference would still be for none, but the consensus in the previous discussion was for all.) For as long as VC5 stays in SRMod, I think that consistency needs to remain, but if VC5 had its own namespace, then we could theoretically define a separate standard for that namespace.

:::On file prefixes specifically, which are related but separate to psuedospaces, I would suggest the same thing I suggested last time - VC5 and three additional characters. That removes any potential conflict with future releases and gives us over 17500 unique IDs. But that doesn't mean every pseudospace has to have a prefix anyway. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:12, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::On a somewhat related note, I think we're violating the spirit of modspace anyway by having so many red links and landing pages for all these VCs without actually documenting any of the content. We're a wiki, not a database - we don't need to be duplicating all the description pages that already exist on BethNet, we need to be detailing the content and gameplay, otherwise there's no point. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:22, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Being incomplete violates nothing. But yes, I think I get what you mean to say. We want more content like [[Skyrim Mod:Spelltome Craft|Spelltome Craft]] and less that is either absent or a stub that has no unique info of great merit. That said, the list itself is of great use to many since Bethesda's own ways to list the program's offerings are ... lacking.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{Edit Conflict}} I'm neutral on keeping psuedospaces, just as long VC5 is used to start all file names that would be the most important thing. The psuedospaces add a small benefit of making them easier to categorize so as long as we don't make them a requirement and more of an optional thing, they could work. As for the pages themselves, we shouldn't be duplicating descriptions and just leaving the pages like that, they definitely need editing and to have at bare minimum intros added to them. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 21:49, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::The [[UESPWiki:Mod|Modspace Guidelines]] literally say that we're supposed to document content, not delivery. If the above number is accurate, we have documented delivery of some 150 mods, while we only have details of content for about 20. Meanwhile, 92 are redlinks and don't even have their own pages. At what point would it be considered a violation of those guidelines? They certainly aren't "content-focused" at the moment if less than 15% of the documentation actually includes any content. Anything we're documenting should at least have a landing page like [[Skyrim Mod:SWIFT|SWIFT]], [[Skyrim Mod:The Forgotten City|The Forgotten City]], [[Skyrim Mod:ESO Imports|ESO Imports]] or [[Skyrim Mod:Wyrmstooth|Wyrmstooth]].

::::::Note that I'm only arguing for parity here - if we are now saying that it's acceptable for less than 15% of modspace to actually include documentation of mods' content and for more than 50% of mods listed to not even have their own articles, we'll rewrite the guidelines to that effect and continue creating a list of redlinks for free mods as well (which someone has already been doing), even if we never expect them to have any content documentation. Alternatively, if we follow the guidelines as intended, any redlinks on both lists should be deleted until such a time as someone actually starts documenting that mod. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 00:42, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Never. We have a drastically different interpretation of those guidelines. Nothing I see there even begins to suggest deleting redlinks to make site content even less complete. And again, even if much of the page is redlinks we merely hope will be fleshed out in time, that alone has frequently proven to be extremely useful and popular. Someone with access to view numbers can help provide data here if desired. Further, these redlinks have successfully proved to be helpful prompts for others to build the associated pages, especially since the list is semi protected. So perhaps those guidelines should be addended in such a way that reiterates our more clearly stated policy that perfection is not required and the fundamentally iterative nature of the site as a whole.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:56, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Agreed. Primarily it's the "Completing Articles" guideline that is the issue here, and I would be very happy to take that out and/or completely reword it to encourage iterative improvement over time, rather than suggesting that we ideally need to plan out a complete article from the start to avoid indefinite stubs. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:38, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

== Please undelete this page: Lore:Fascist ==

I'm [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides]]. I lost my password in a recent incident involving my password manager, leaving me logged out of my account. This is not the reason I am making this post. I noticed a mistaken deletion of a page, Lore:Fascist, within 18 hours of creation. This was not in line with the 7 days required under the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Policy]] for proposed deletion. This isn't just a deletion — this is an unexplained removal of information from UESP wiki. I hope we can fix this error by undeleting [[Lore:Fascist]] as soon as possible. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 11:07, 13 August 2025 (UTC)
:Administrators are allowed to delete pages before the typical 7 days if they feel the page is vandalism, nonsense, or similar, so I believe that's why it didn't stay up for the full 7 days that the Proposed Deletion tag normally requires. While the page is neither vandalism nor nonsense per se, it does feel like a forced attempt to introduce the concept of fascism where it's virtually non-existent in the game. Even when creating the page, you were only able to find a single in-universe instance of the word and one out-of-universe example. That's not really worth creating a Lore page for in my opinion.

:If you feel like you can flesh it out to the point where it might merit becoming a Lore page, I'm willing to restore it and move it to a subpage of your User page, but that's about as much as I'd be willing to do, personally. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

:: As I explained [[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides#Lore:Fascist|here]], the deleted article contained little of substance, and your previous account's edits seem more like an attempt to insert real-world political science into articles than a genuine effort to document fascism in TES lore. Another seven days would not have improved the case to retain such a page. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

::: RobinHood70, I appreciate your offer. While I revise the page — incorporating feedback to build consensus — I’d be glad for you to move and subpage Lore:Fascist as needed. Consensus matters to me, which is why I’m disappointed by the push to shut down discussion that could have occurred over those seven days. It’s odd — and counter to wiki principles — to assume no one might weigh in during that time. These discussions should have happened on [[Lore talk:Fascist]]. Nonetheless, I understand that editors feel that Lore:Fascist might have too little content. I hope to rework it into a larger, broader, subject page once it is restored and undeleted. Thank you. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 07:05, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::My issue is that it would be hard to even turn into a large page without speculation or overly relying on real-world comparisons. I think the page could exist only if it was a tiny stub given its only mentioned once. And at most maybe applies to a group through dev comments. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 13:23, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Agreed. I don't know what the content of the page was, but I don't see how a lore page can be created based on a single throwaway line of dialogue from a single quest that you can only hear with a certain disposition value. The whole point of a lore page is to explain a concept, and there is nothing here to generate a concept which can then be explained. If the NPC had instead said ''"That welxist pig killed those people"'', would we create a Lore:Welxist page, despite knowing nothing of that concept beyond that single line? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:37, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Yeah I don't see much in the way of value being added by restoring this page. Keep it deleted. This is a real-world topic that can easily be justified as being a direct English translation for our sake as the player, rather than an actual term in-lore and in Tamrielic languages as a concept. Without any other content to cover, this page serves little purpose except to act as a potential lightning rod for controversy and edit wars. [[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 15:38, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I concur that the page should have been deleted. We could have started a talk page about it, but the discussion on it would likely go the same way this portal post is going right now. While I'm not inherently against the concept of a page about fascism, the fact that there's so little info on fascism (or political ideologies in general) within TES means that there's no way to write an actual article about it without massive amounts of speculation and connecting the dots with stuff that is subjectively fascist. Its like creating "Lore:Genetics" based on a few mentions of geneology; irl concepts like biology don't necessarily fit as a main backdrop in TES. If there was more info from the games on it, then I might have been on board, but since there isn't we don't really have any option but to have deleted that page. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:14, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} I also agree that it was right to delete the page, but in the interests of offering Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II a chance to prove it can be brought up to Lore page standards, I've restored it to [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II/Fascist|a sandbox]]. I'm using [[Lore:Sex]] as a guideline here. I was extremely sceptical of that page when it was first created, but it's become more than I ever would have imagined, so I think it's only fair to give the same breadth to this topic. That said, I urge any editors working on it to be very careful with what content they add to it. I can see the potential for the topic to go south very quickly, and if it does, I imagine it'll be summarily deleted again. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:58, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: This content has effectively been restored by placing it on [[Lore:Government]] and turning [[Lore:Fascist]] into a redirect. I have proposed the article for deletion as it doesn't address any of the concerns raised above and remains a speculative shoehorning. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

::I think a potential page on Government has some merit, but the section of fascism specifically doesn't, especially in its current form. There's nothing in TES suggesting that the one source was referring to a form of fascist government existing in the Empire, if you look at the real world definition of fascism it is a poor fit. But the word "fascist" has multiple definitions. As the edit in question can't escape, there isn't even an establishment of a relation to government without bringing in real world information, instead relying on the fact that the word was used as an insult once as the entire basis of its presence there. If you look at the [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism dictionary definition] "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control" makes a lot more sense in the context then the primary meaning "a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition".

::A fully developed page on Government in TES could possibly mention the single usage of the word fascist in a note section, but I think that's the extent of it that would be appropriate considering existing sources. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 11:39, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

== Mod Copyright Templates ==

While looking at some recent uploads I came to the thought that our current set of copyright templates don't seem to cover mods very well. It's very probable that a mod author doesn't want their creations just under creative commons, and mod elements also for the most part incorporate or are entirely based off of existing Elder scrolls content so it should most likely mention that it is still property of Bethesda. With that in mind we probably need licensing templates of some sort for mod projects. It'll allow us to fill in in case a mod author is declaring copyright on their mod.

One case that this would cover for example is the [[Beyond Skyrim:Concept Art|Beyond Skyrim concept arts]], which from what I can see are being uploaded under CC2.5 but are marked as being under [https://beyondskyrim.org/project/elsweyr copyright by Beyond Skyrim on their own website]. It'd be an improvement for us to say those images are copyright of Beyond Skyrim I believe, and I'm sure there are other examples like this on UESP.

Bringing this up here in case there are other gaps in the copyright templates that I haven't thought up that would deserve consideration. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 03:54, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: Sometimes I'm asked by mod authors to upload images for Verified Creator Program releases before they're publicly published on Bethesda's site. So the license choice of it being an image from a Bethesda web site is not yet accurate and I just leave it blank because the option you just described is missing.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:05, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For Eve's specific example of being asked to upload images by the author, I think that's just {{tl|Usedwithpermission}}, or a variation of it. For other mod images, I think we may want to distinguish between in-game screenshots taken by UESP editors, and images created directly by the mod author, as we do everywhere else. For images created by the author, we probably want a Fair Use variant which says something like:
:: ''This image was taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod, the copyright of which is held by the mod author(s). The use of such images is believed to fall under the fair dealing clause of Canadian copyright law.''
:: For screenshots, we probably want something like:
:: ''This image was created for use on UESP using components taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod. The copyright for the components is held by the mod author(s), while the copyright for this particular composition is held by UESP. It is available for use under the same Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License as our text content.''
:: We can add into that whatever extra info about Zenimax/Bethesda if necessary, but at the same time I don't want to conflate ownership, as Zeni/Beth only own the base game, not the unique composition created by the mod author. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:08, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

::: Thanks. I see that under the "Other" section and will use that in such cases going forward.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

== Grammar Concerns ==
I recently added an official mod summary to the [[Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]] page that had a grammar error. Immediately recognizing the error, I used the sic template to note that the text appeared as the author typed it and should not be corrected until and unless the official summary itself gets fixed. This was simple. This was routine. This was not expected to be controversial. However, another editor removed the template insisting that the incorrect grammar was actually correct. An edit war ensued where they misquoted grammar rules. It then went to the page's talk page where it got little attention. Then I gave up and left it without the template. Similar happened not long after, though, when I added needed images to [[SI:Grakendo Udico]]. This put the page on my watchlist, so I noticed when its correct grammar was changed to be incorrect. This started another edit war with the same user. Worse, an apparent intent to cascade the error everywhere was presented when [[SI:The Fringe]] (also on my watchlist from a previous edit) was also updated by the same user to make the same change from correct grammar to incorrect grammar. I then raised the issue on our Discord in hopes of additional voices of reason helping to correct the user's understanding of English grammar rules [[https://discord.com/channels/261544750044282883/261887896930353155/1407950822196903959]]. Unfortunately, the result was not only far from what I hoped it would be but instead prompted such grave concerns that this portal post is merited. We, of course, honor intentional style choices made in the official material. We also recognize errors where they exist. We should not insist that errors are official style choices, even if they are common or frequent. We should not presume intent. Given the lack of an official declaration that the grammar error is intentional, the basic rules of English grammar should apply. I also hoped this point would not be controversial. It was. The arguments (which I frankly find preposterous) were instead made that "English has no hard rules", that "Proper names include things like pubs or newspaper publications, not geographic regions like the Fringe", and that we should intentionally propagate some assumed concept of Bethesda grammar as if it were an intentional choice rather than an obvious error to anyone sufficiently familiar with English grammar rules or referencing any widely accepted English style guide. In conclusion, the specific examples (a comma between verbs of a compound predicate, capitalization of articles in proper place names) need as definitive an affirmation as we can reasonably get. I don't think our own style guides require any modification as the suggested corrections simply bring the language in line with accepted norms; I should hope people don't need to be told to use sense and recognize an error as an error rather than thinking that just because Bethesda made an error that we should then make that same error wherever possible. Whether anyone then chooses to hunt down similar examples throughout UESP for the sake of instant consistency is up to them. I merely seek to correct the cases in point to serve as precedent and hope that this will result in correct usage gradually being applied as relevant pages are edited anyway.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 08:26, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: A few points:

: 1. '''Incorrect grammar''': This has been discussed at length before, but capitalising the definite article is only required when it forms part of a proper title. So, The New York Times or the [[Oblivion:The Merchants Inn|The Merchants Inn]], but not the Fringe or the Reach. Compare [[wikipedia:The Pale|the Pale]] (or even [[wikipedia:The Bahamas|the Bahamas]], supposedly an exception). Regarding the sic template, as I have [[Skyrim_Mod_talk:Verified_Creator_Program#Sic_Misuse|repeatedly pointed out]], the comma usage here is a (poor) stylistic choice and not a grammar error.

: 2. '''Inconsistency with source material''': The in-game dialogue and journal entries on both [[SI:Grakendo Udico]] and [[SI:The Fringe]] disagree with you. Both refer to "the Fringe" in prose, and UESP's capitalisation is inconsistent with that. As a general guideline, our [[UESPWiki:Spelling|spelling and capitalisation guide]] tends to follow what is seen in-game. If it was treated as "The Fringe" in ''Oblivion'', maybe you would have a case to disregard normal grammar rules for geographic place names. Alas, this is not so.

: 3. '''Consensus''': The sic removal did not get "little attention", it received a comment from one additional user who opposed the overzealous use of a sic tag. From looking at the discussion on Discord regarding the Fringe capitalisation, three additional users attempted to correct you on current consensus and accepted grammar for this and similar cases. Yours is clearly the minority position here, i.e. to ignore precedent, in-game spelling, real world grammar rules, and site-wide consistency in the pursuit of carving out "The Fringe" as an exception to the rule.

: There is nothing wrong with [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Be bold|being bold]] and reverting what you perceive as a mistaken edit. However, these cases to me seem like an inability to accept correction. Having a 3-hour-long Discord discussion about it followed by a Community Portal post is unnecessarily disruptive to what should have been a minor grammar improvement. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:02, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::Ultimately this change will require us marking upwards of thousands of instances of things like "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", and so on as sics. This goes against UESP's existing style guide, in relation to the text on [[UESPWiki:Spelling]] in particular: ''"The Elder Scrolls games use many unique words and names. The spelling of all Elder Scrolls words should match the spelling used in the game, even if that differs from the common English spelling."''

::This would also fall astray from the Manual of Style of Wikipedia, with us commonly referencing Wikipedia in gaps in our own coverage as a possible source. In relation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Capitalization_of_The MOS: CAPS Capitalization of The], I reference: ''"Do not ordinarily capitalize the definite article after the first word of a sentence; however, some idiomatic expressions, including the titles of artistic and academic works, should be quoted exactly, according to common usage."''

::This, when applied to our current practice, has us doing it correctly by following common usage.

::With both UESP's own style guide supporting our current position, and the Wikipedia MOS supporting it as well I would move onto one final point for why we shouldn't. This would cause extreme confusion among our readers seeing the extra thousand plus sics this would create, and would cause more fighting over sics then exists currently. It would both require a considerable amount of editor effort to make things consistent to this new standard, while only causing what I would perceive as a degradation of the quality of our content to the average user due to the increased confusion this would cause. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 09:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::: No one is saying "the" should always be capitalized. The rule is that it is capitalized when it is part of the name itself. The advocated behavior here is to adhere to the rule, which itself applies to exceptional names that include the article as part of the name, NOT to do something that is itself an exception to the rules in general. This "inability to accept correction" accusation works both ways. You may wish to avoid additional personal attacks and threats and try to address the actual issue at hand. And no one is questioning spelling. I don't know why spelling keeps being brought up. The cases in point are a comma and a capital T, not spelling. This is not a matter of opinion. People yelling loudly, repeatedly, and even vulgarly that their way is the right way without any relevant or credible citation is an abusive attempt at bullying, not a valid counter to the credible sources provided via Discord ([[https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/punctuation/commas/extended_rules_for_commas.html]] [[https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html]]). The argument that being correct is too hard is also absurd. Firstly, what's right is what matters—and what's right is often not what's easy. Secondly, to repeat, this does not need to be effected immediately sitewide; we simply need to set the record straight on what's right and what's wrong here to prevent the people that do make the edits—when and if they choose to do so—from undoing each other's work. The UESP style guide says nothing about the specific issues, leaving any reasonable person to understand that normal and basic grammar rules prevail. Wikipedia's current cited example of "the Bahamas" is an error. It's easy to find errors like this. That still does not make them right. Find credible and accepted direction that contradicts the credible and accepted direction already linked above, if you can, not additional examples of common error.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 10:05, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::: Eve, at this point the only person insisting their way is the sole correct one—against all style guides, in-game usage, and community consensus—is you. The Fringe is not the name of a country. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:54, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Quick summary for the rest of the community, because for a section titled "Grammar concerns", OP's content focused on how the alleged errors have been mis/handled without specifying the actual errors themselves; also, for everyone who can't be bothered to look up diffs and/or people like me who are not on Discord.

{|class="wikitable"
!Page and revision!!Text!!OP's edits
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3402135|Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]]
|Will you save her from the Forsworn, and help her write your epic?
|Will you save her from the {{sic|Forsworn,|Forsworn}} and help her write your epic?
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3405307|Shivering:Grakendo Udico]]
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|the Fringe]], she will be...
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]], she will be...
|-
|[[Shivering:The Fringe]]
|colspan=2|(What was the update "by the same user ... to incorrect grammar"?)
|}
And now that everybody else is on the same page about "a comma and a capital T", here's my two cents.

The first one seems to be just an Oxford comma on verb phrases. A stylistic choice perhaps, but not necessarily a grammatical error, let alone one that warrants a {{tl|Sic}}.

For the second one, I agree that the excerpt quoted by AKB above from [[UESPWiki:Spelling#General]] actually does apply to spelling, not capitalization. The relevant part is further down in [[UESPWiki:Spelling#Proper Names]]: ''"...cases where proper names begin with a definite (e.g. the) or indefinite (e.g. a, an) article. The article should be preserved if the proper name is used as a standalone noun and omitted if used as a modifier for some other noun..."''.

Thus, I don't see any problem with "When you arrive at The Fringe". As a matter of fact, in the page for [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]] itself, the description for many [[Shivering:The Fringe#Places within The Fringe|related places]] refer to it as "The Fringe". The intro blurb also mentions "The Shivering Isles" and "The Gatekeeper". So... I'm not sure I understand correctly what AKB refers to as "common usage" above (not throwing shade, I legit don't because I don't edit in the [[OB:Oblivion|OB]] and [[SI:Shivering Isles|SI]] namespaces much).

However, it is very important to note that in-game mentions of "the Fringe" do not constitute a grammatical error either. There isn't, and there shouldn't be, any call to add sitewide sics to "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", etc. especially when they're quoted from in-game dialogue or journal entries. I think we can recognize it's a slippery slope fallacy and that it should not be taken as support or opposition to either approach.

Lastly, from [[UESPWiki:Style Guide#Language]], ''"...capitalization follows standard English rules, {{Hover|emphasis mine|'''except'''}} in cases where a proper name or title comes from an Elder Scrolls game, in which case the game capitalization is kept. More specifics on spelling and capitalization, and clarification on in-game spelling variations, are provided at [[UESPWiki:Spelling|Spelling]]''. So... please understand why "spelling keeps being brought up".

TLDR: I believe (1) Oxford comma okay, no sic; and (2) "The Fringe" okay but "the Fringe" also okay if quoting in-game content. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 11:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: To me, the examples on [[Shivering:The Fringe]] speak to the lower quality of those older SI pages compared to the rest of the site. It is most definitely "[[Shivering:Haskill#Quest-Related_Events|the Gatekeeper]]" in all contexts. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Thank you, Salamangkero. The quoted examples, citation of our own policy confirming that the "definite ... article should be preserved", and citation of our policy confirming that our text "follows standard English rules" are all very helpful. Regarding the third example, I see now I have an error in my original post. It was actually the page "Retaking The Fringe", not just "The Fringe". It was effectively the same as the second edit, though. Beyond that, as per the rule cited by the same user themselves ([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma]]), the comma does not fit the definition as the definition requires the list to consist of at least THREE terms—not two. I also concur that citing examples of it being done the way one person considers right or wrong or vice versa is not particularly helpful—hence encouraging us to look at style guides that actually intend to prescribe correct usage. Also, regarding sic usage in general, it's my understanding that this applies ONLY when we're quoting anyway. Otherwise, the error should simply be corrected, not preserved (with or without annotation). As for our Gatekeeper friend, I don't know for certain if "The" is part of his name or not off the top of my head. I suspect it's not, so a lowercase "the" would be good here. The list of exceptions that actually include the article as part of the proper name is likely a very short list, all of which have probably already been mentioned just now in this section.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:36, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
:: And while I question if it's better to ignore such a crude comment, I'll respond for the record. "against all style guides": No, I'm advocating what every single style guide cited says to do; you're the one that keeps insisting otherwise with zero style guides backing up the approach. "against ... in-game usage": Some of it. It's inconsistent. And being in the game doesn't make it right. Hence the existence of the sic template in the first place. "against ... community consensus": I posted this hours ago, and we most definitely have not reached a consensus. "The Fringe is not the name of a country.": I agree. Also, no one said it was. Nor does it need to be. Any type of proper name that starts with an article counts.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I was not aware the Oxford comma had a 3-terms-and-above restriction. I learned something new today; thank you for that. I also offer an alternative: instead of a list of verb phrases like I initially claimed, consider it instead as [https://www.grammarly.com/blog/punctuation-capitalization/comma-before-and/#1 two independent clauses].

:::Point taken re: the examples being of lower quality / older. So I did a quick scan of [[UESPWiki:Featured_Articles/Old_FAs|Featured Articles]]:
:::*[[ON:Molag Bal]] mentions ''"...during [[ON:The Watcher in the Walls|The Watcher in the Walls]], [[ON:The Rat|The Rat]] informs you that..."'' and ''"...you are transported to [[ON:The Colored Rooms|The Colored Rooms]]."''
:::*[[SR:Serana]] has dialogue ''"When in The Reach"'' and ''"When in The Rift"''
:::*[[Lore:War of Betony]] mentions ''"...from Camaron's chief advisor [[Lore:The Oracle|The Oracle]], who reportedly..."''
:::*[[SR:Fishing_(activity)]] lists places ''"...east of the passage from [[SR:The Rift|The Rift]]."'', ''"...in front of [[SR:The Mortar and Pestle|The Mortar and Pestle]] and...'', ''"...next to the entrance to [[SR:The Warrens|The Warrens]]."'' and ''"Travel to [[SR:The Guardian Stones|The Guardian Stones]]..."''

:::The argument could be made that these are isolated errors; maybe, maybe not. However, I do think the current wording of the wiki's style guide leans towards preserving the capital "T" for in-game content that actually have "The" in their names. I believe, in the past, contributors have encountered dialogue / journal entries where a lowercase "t" was used to refer to "the Thing" and taken that as the norm. I think, over time, other contributors also followed suit until it became a de facto style, which is why arguments that appeal to "precedent" and "site-wide consistency" are brought up. However, [[UESPWiki:Consensus#When Consensus is Needed|Consensus]] guidelines specifically warns against ''fait accompli'' and I feel that using "community consensus" to shoot down attempts to clarify consensus is a bit underhanded.

:::However, the same [[UESPWiki:Consensus#Reaching Consensus|Consensus]] guidelines also recommends we ''"respect the wiki guidelines about civility"'' and ''"focus on the issue being discussed"''. I think it's obvious everyone views the comma and/or the capital T as completely trivial issues. Given that, everyone also expects a quick resolution then feels understandably frustrated when the discussion gets "unnecessarily" prolonged. People begin feeling aggravated, misunderstood or unheard; they may lash out, insinuating a misunderstanding of guidelines, an inability to accept feedback or just plain stubbornness. People become defensive, take things personally, create strawman arguments and respond to quotes taken out of context.

:::Might I suggest taking a breather and letting go of the need to reach (or enforce) a consensus "right here, right now"? Maybe 24 hours or even a couple of days? There might be some benefit if other contributors, who might be less emotionally-invested, could be given time to bring something new to the table. Perhaps the other participants in said Discord might also share their reasoning here?

:::I, too, would love for this to be uncontroversial but that boat has already sailed. For a supposedly trivial concern, the stakeholders have pretty strong feelings on what is right or wrong. We're here now; might as well use this space to have a civil discussion with the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 13:55, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you again. Well said. Treating it as two independent clauses doesn't work, though, since the second clause relies on the "Will you" at the beginning (and is thus dependent). Otherwise, the meaning would get changed into asking a question and then issuing a command which seems very unlikely to be the author's intent.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 14:38, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Our primary motivating factor is what the games do. By and large, such instances in the games has a lower case letter for the definite article when used in the middle of the sentence. In similar cases on wikipedia, they have also settled on the lowercase t for such instances, see for example [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters/Archive_34#Capitalization_of_The|this discussion on the Bahamas]]. English has no hard and fast rule on this, and many if not most American English speakers learned growing up to NOT capitalize the t in a definite article in the middle of a sentence except in very specific circumstances, and place names are not one of those circumstances. It doesn't really matter what the various manuals of style say to do, because we do not follow any specific manual of styles, we just copy what the game devs have decided to do, and the vast majority of time, they do not capitalize the t. This holds true in games from Morrowind all through to ESO (I don't have access to the text files for games before that).

To quote one of the commenters from that Wikipedia discussion:

''"And we've had this debate many times before about many things, such as various company names, a lot of universities, etc., and the end result is always the same: WP uses "the" because most sources do. See also MOS:TM and WP:OFFICIALNAME; WP really doesn't care about the preferences of particular publishers or other entities, nor for "officialness" of some particular style choice. WP is not written in officialese."''

In this case, "most sources" for us are the games. And saying that the thousands of times they have made this choice in games across multiple decades is somehow a "common error" vastly misstates the sheer number of instances. In ESO alone there are over 1400 instances of "the Reach" with that capitalization. Sicing all of them is is both unnecessary and incorrect, because the game devs have settled on a style to use, and we should follow it. Again, given the number of times that this exact sort of capitalization has come up on Wikipedia, and every single time consensus has been that common usage does NOT capitalize the t, most readers are likely to assume a capitalized t is incorrect.

TLDR: We follow the style used by the games, and the games overwhelmingly use a lowercase t in such instances. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:30, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
: I would also point out that even if we WERE using a manual of style rules, Chicago's FAQ regarding this situation effectively says lowercase t is okay if that's what the source is using:

:''"Meanwhile, the entries in Merriam-Webster list “Gambia or the Gambia” and “Bahamas or the Bahamas or The Bahamas”—suggesting not only that usage varies but that a lowercase t may be more common when the article is used with either name. And though an editor applying Chicago style would ordinarily defer to Merriam-Webster (and choose lowercase), you can cite Britannica if your preference is for The Gambia. Just be sure to switch to lowercase when the article belongs to the surrounding text, as in “the Gambia River” or “the Gambian coast.”''
:(from [https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html here])

:Standard English grammar does not capitalize these situations generally and it would be wrong to mark them as sic for making a choice to not capitalize them. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:43, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Dictionaries are inherently NOT prescriptive or instructive. They document how people use language, not how it should be used. So of course they are going to note that it appears with and without a capital. They are frequently asked what the "right" way of writing something is and invariably respond that they only keep track of what people do, never judging what is best but merely helping people understand what others mean.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I would just suggest that both be acceptable, and therefore neither should be changed. Stats for ESO are already mentioned; in Skyrim, there are 52 instances of the Pale and the Rift being mentioned mid-sentence, and only 12 of The Pale and The Rift. This shows that 20% of the time, someone made a concerted effort to actively capitalise it, but by the same token, 80% of the time they didn't bother. As for the Reach, that appears over 100 times, while The Reach is only capitalised 3 times. CSList for Oblivion isn't working so I can't check the Fringe.
:::When it comes to sic and commas, I don't really think it's worth sic'ing punctuation at all, apart from apostrophes. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't see why a sic wouldn't be appropriate in the case punctuation is unambiguously wrong, such as a question ending in a period rather than a question mark. In the particular case of the Verified Creator Program, I do think Eve's edit is correct, but I do not know for sure that the original is unambiguously incorrect, so I shall remain neutral on that. But in general, I would support sic tags being used on any punctuation *errors*. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 21:25, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Correct placement of commas is subject to more 'grey areas' than just about any other aspect of punctuation. Deciding what is 'correct' (as opposed to purely stylistic choice) in many instances comes down to subtle distinctions of emphasis and intent. In the example under discussion, I would argue it depends on whether you consider "save her from the Forsworn" and "help her write your epic" as two distinct actions (ie "Will you save her from the Forsworn, ''and will you'' help her write your epic?") or just one ("Will you save her from the Forsworn ''while simultaneously'' helping her write your epic?"). Not having played the Creation in question, I would suggest the former is more likely, but neither are technically incorrect.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:35, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: The case in point for "The Fringe" is prose written by UESP users. There's nothing to sic. It's just a matter of being consistent in the text we do fully control. As for whether it's "worth" marking official text as erroneous on account of this, no one is demanding every such instance be immediately marked as such. I just want users to be able to acknowledge that it's not called Fringe. It's called The Fringe. And when users indicate this with a capital T, I don't want them to be fought on it. And I certainly don't want correct instances of a capital T changed to incorrect instances of a lowercase T as was the case here. Even if either were perfectly fine, then that change is unjustified anyway. The point is also well made that some number of people at Bethesda very clearly made an active effort to properly capitalize it. I'd say the more obvious distinction is that we have zero examples of it being referred to as simply "Fringe." It's always THE Fringe (except one "My Fringe" from Sheogorath being goofy and alluding to himself effectively being the realm itself that no one actually asserts should be an example of anything—but which nevertheless capitalizes "My," albeit possibly for a different reason anyway). And even if we were to mistake reference materials that merely chronicle usage both capitalizing the article and not as endorsement of both being proper, the one with the capitalization presents greater clarity of the actual place name whereas the other approach seeks to intentionally maintain unnecessary vagueness. As for the comma, the fact that the attempt to justify multiple intended meanings requires actually changing the phrasing to make it sound normal says a lot. If the words "will you" were repeated, then the comma would indeed be just fine. But they're not. And that's why it's an issue. There are no interpretations of the meaning that make the current comma and words valid. I feel much of the commentary stems from fear of needing to do a lot more work or fear of one's existing work looking lesser in some way. That's not how this works. Once we acknowledge what is ideal, no one is required to hunt down every instance of anything that falls short. Anything containing such an instance is not rendered any more incomplete than anything else on the wiki. The entire site is an eternal work in progress. Just don't change the right way to the wrong way when and where someone actually does care enough to get it right.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 06:44, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::No-one is suggesting that the location is called "Fringe". What they are arguing is that "the Fringe" and "The Fringe" are both equally correct. As for the comma, I was not "changing the phrase to make it sound normal", I was merely illustrating that there are different ways of interpreting the meaning, which affect whether the comma is appropriate. Or are you suggesting that the second interpretation is the only possible one? You seem to regard neither style guides nor dictionaries nor common usage as valid counter-evidence to the position you regard as 'objectively' correct, but I'm unclear how you arrived at this position. In any case, when it comes to proper nouns, the position of the 'owner' of the noun (in this case the devs) takes precedence. That's why there's a movie called ''Inglourious Basterds'', not ''Inglorious Bastards''. Now can we move on from a topic that really should not have provoked this much controversy?--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:07, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I'm stating that no matter how the sentence is interpreted, the comma is an error. You are correct that dictionaries are not regarded as evidence of how things SHOULD be—only of how they are used, whether desirable or not. As for style guides on the comma, I linked a Purdue reference affirming the comma's incorrectness. No one has linked any contrary guide. As for style guides on capitalizing The Fringe, the Chicago Manual of Style reference I linked also affirms that it "generally remains capitalized" and further attests Brittanica corroborates. I admit the last paragraph of that source is slightly confusing; however, read in full context, it refers precisely to The Gambia and The Bahamas as tolerating a lowercase "the." It explicitly states that any other region whose name starts with a definite article (such as "The") should have it capitalized, citing examples of El Salvador, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and The Hague. As for Bethesda's stance, if you can find a comment of them explicitly stating that it should be one way or the other, that would be awesome. Otherwise, again, just trying to deduce their position based on inconsistent examples is either inconclusive or outright supports capitalizing the article. And once again, absolutely no one has argued against honoring intentional spellings, which remain completely irrelevant to the cases in point.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: As an extra point of clarification, even the dictionaries agree anyway. "The Hague," for example is only listed with a capital The. It's simply that The Gambia and The Bahamas are extra exceptional in that they alone have a modicum of tolerance for a lowercase "the."[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:15, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: If tolerance is a valid consideration, Bethesda's tolerance of over 80% lower case is highly significant. As I said above, I would just suggest that both options be acceptable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 17:39, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::: How would that even work? First person to add the text gets to pick? People can endlessly change it back and forth?[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 18:13, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Yep, first person decides. For every alt spelling or grammar rule that UESP has no preference toward, consistency within the page is what matters, so whatever is on there first takes priority. Edits that change it back and forth aren't really allowed because edits are meant to be useful and changing it back and forth when the original already established something wouldn't be of substance. I think "dialogue" vs "dialog" is one of these things, where you can use either as long as the page is consitent within itself. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 18:24, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

: For whatever reason, the Spelling page actually dictates "Use 'dialog' to refer to interface elements ('dialog box', 'dismiss the inventory dialog') and 'dialogue' for character content ('the NPC's dialogue varies by player character race')." I get the idea, though. For the cases in point, I'd say they fall under the UESP "preference" to use correct grammar.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:47, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For the sake of completeness on the stats, I managed to get the Oblivion dialogue on the Fringe now that CSList is partially working again. Of 40 mid-sentence references to the Fringe, only 3 are capitalised. That's over 90% which aren't. And yes, as above; in other instances where there are two equally-acceptable styles, whichever is on the page first usually takes priority. Although I know sometimes when a lot of info is added to a page, editors may sometimes switch what's already there if that is then in the minority compared to their additions; I think that happens particularly if they've been typing out their edit elsewhere, and editing their additions would take longer than changing what's already there. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 22:17, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Dialog vs Dialogue isn't just a choice of the editor. Dialogue is specific to people speaking, dialog is to interface elements. This is specific to American English, where dialog is computer related. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:49, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Yep, after looking into it, this was [https://content1.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Spelling&diff=3116711&oldid=3047631 changed] a year ago and I last reviewed the guide before it was reduxed. A current example is Dwemer vs. Dwarven as an adjective of origin, of which either is acceptable. Thanks for the corrections on this point. Eve is correct that their Purdue reference has gone unchallenged and pending any provided counter-source, I must side with them on this and say the sic is valid. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 17:24, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

== Headers on Style Pages ==
Following from a discussion about headers on Crafting Motif Style pages in the Discord.

So, some Crafting Motif Style pages have a level 4 header on their pages under the intro paragraph where it says what weapon/armor is involved. An example of this is [[ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords|ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords]]. Some, primarily older ones, do not have that. They look like this [[ON:Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes|Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes]]. The Abah's Watch Axes example does appear to be styled more like how the in-game books look. I started doing the level 4 heads like on Voskrona Guardian Swords because I saw it on a Lore page before ([[Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style|Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style]]) as an example, though I think most, if not all, Lore Style pages have this.

So the question I have: Going forward, what should we do to fix the discrepancy?

1. Remove all the headers.

2. Keep the headers on Lore pages, but not on the Online namespace pages.

3. Keep all headers on both.

Thank you.

[[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 05:17, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:I support Option 1. The game itself doesn't have headers or bolding or anything different (other than the text being in caps) and we shouldn't be adding formatting that isn't part of the games to these pages. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:47, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::I support Option 1. Yeah, we should make it so it looks like in-game. --[[User:BixenteN7Akantor|BixenteN7Akantor]] ([[User talk:BixenteN7Akantor|talk]]) 18:41, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Option 1, although I think the bolded headings look better, we should prioritize accuracy. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 20:09, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Just adding to this, I'm noticing that some of the books (like Crafting Motif 33, above) indent the text under the headers where others don't. Unless there's any objection, I'll outdent those in addition to removing the headers whenever I run the bot job. That'll bring them into line with how they appear in game. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:02, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Option 1 makes sense. We should still keep some form of bolding to maintain readability (putting <code>;</code> in front of the chapters would easily do the job), we've never focused on perfectly replicating the books exactly how they are in-game so I don't see why we would start doing that now (see: authorship and intro notes in-game getting moved into the template on-wiki). —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 08:43, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Well, for me, it's a matter of consistency between the pages as opposed to perfectly replicating them as they are in-game. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 17:06, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Been a while. I say we pull the trigger on this for Option 1. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 23:47, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} Sorry, I completely forgot about this. The job's actually been ready to go since we first talked about it. I'm just running it now and it'll probably be done by the time I post this. Let me know if there are any issues. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:23, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
: It missed two but otherwise, everything looks good. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:05, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
::The two that it missed both had level 3 headers, which I hadn't realized were a thing, so I was only checking for level 4 headers. I should've checked the spacing after the title, though. I'm not sure how I missed that. Thanks for fixing the ones where that was an issue. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:59, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

==Class skill line pages not reflecting subclassing==
While I was adding achievement sections to the class skill line pages, I noticed that they all still say "(class skill line name) is one of three class skill lines available to (class)." Obviously, with subclassing now, these skill lines are available to everyone, and that statement kind of implies they're exclusive to that class. I've left them as is, as I didn't really know how to approach this. Any ideas are welcome, or if anyone wants to tackle this themselves, go ahead :) [[User:Sogekihei|Sogekihei]] ([[User talk:Sogekihei|talk]]) 02:00, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

: What about [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online%3ABone_Tyrant&type=revision&diff=3450557&oldid=3449649 this]? —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:11, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:: Since I didn't receive any feedback on this change, I've gone ahead and added this standard wording for each class skill line. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

== Incomplete / Unavailable mods in modspace? ==

I've stumbled upon a [[Morrowind Mod:Sixth House Reloaded|''Morrowind'' mod]] that has a decent amount of content on a decent amount of pages, which would have been hardly notable except for the fact that it is not available. Characterized as an "upcoming overhaul mod", work on the pages started on September of this year (and stalled one month after). I feel like this is problematic for the following reasons:
* Unlike mods that actually exist, there is no meaningful way for wiki contributors to create, edit or fact-check any content.
** Instead of articles vetted and improved by the community, we have one contributor's personal sandbox outside Userspace.
** Indeed, the few changes done by other editors worked on minor housekeeping as opposed to actual content.
* I don't think UESP is the appropriate venue to host a mod's full changelog or documentation.
** Nexus Mods, for example, would be a much more suitable platform for that kind of content.
* As this specific mod is still a work in progress, its pages feel more like hype or press releases rather than useful (or even usable) reference material.
** UESP is not the place for that either.

I would like to propose the deletion of the mod's pages. As an alternative, though, the pages could be moved from Modspace to Userspace. Indeed, [[Special:DoubleRedirects|a trail of redirects]] indicate that at least [[Morrowind_Mod:6HR:Creatures|one article]] might have started as a [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sandbox|sandbox page]].

However, I'm not sure if similar practices might also apply (or even be the norm) in other namespaces. Perhaps my proposals might be unfair, if there's some mitigating context I'm unaware of. Thus, I am asking for feedback from the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 19:18, 15 December 2025 (UTC)
: I agree with what you're saying. The fact that it's not available is the key thing on this one as opposed to other incomplete mods that are partially available, such as Tamriel Rebuilt. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:27, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

::Yeah I think at the time we assumed it would be out imminently. I have no problems with moving it back to Userspace until it releases. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:43, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

:::Done. Moved pages to subpages in [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sixth House Reloaded]]. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 23:23, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

==New Reference Tier Classification Specifically for the Julian LeFay Notes (Proposal)==
Hi! I wanted to suggest the creation of a new reference tier (as we have for official vs UOL) for the recently recovered TTRPG campaign notes of Julian LeFay—which were used for the creation of lore background for ''The Elder Scrolls II: Dagerfall''—and have all been published on [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefays-dd-notes The Imperial Library]. This release is the biggest batch we've ever received as a community of developer design documents, so I'm thinking we ought to treat them differently than regular UOL—especially since a great deal of the background lore in ''Dagerfall'' references the events that took place during this campaign (for example: background of Vanus Galerion, invention of Artaeum, events around Dwynnen, Baron Othrok, and the Camoran Usurper) and many blanks within that area of lore can be filled in with the contents of these notes nearly seamlessly (official canon would take presedence where it does not of course). My suggestion is that that a JLC (Julian LeFay Campaigns) tier be slotted between official and UOL in the 'reference' section of our pages.

In my mind, we would treat the contents of Julian's notes like how Nukepedia treats the Fallout Bible (which was a big document written by an official developer, and contained a plethora of developer commentary as well as design document content) -- more seriously than a UOL source but ultimately less seriously than any canon source. This would mean lorespace pages could be created about their contents (unlike strictly UOL pages), only with a header notice ([https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Asp_Faust as seen here for example]) stating extra clearly that these lorespace pages are based on a secondary source. This method would also subscribe to Todd Howard's statement on truthfulness when it comes to overall fiction of ''The Elder Scrolls'', as stated [[General:Todd Howard PAX East 2019 Interview#Game Development, Canon, and Fan Theories|here]]. However, this would and should extend only to the contents of these notes alone -- all other UOL sources would and should remain UOL.

These notes are some of Julian LeFay's only known direct designs and writings, and I think this would be a really nice way to honor his legacy as well as his contributions to the series while also not overstating their officiality. Looking forward to hearing any thoughts, questions, and suggestions in response to this proposal! Best, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 23:55, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

: To me, this is the same as any other conceptual source covered by the catch-all UOL tag. I agree it's noteworthy developer commentary, but we don't need to categorise unofficial sources into tier lists. I don't see how it's any more "canon" than other dev texts or cutting room floor design docs—foundational, yes, but the same citation rules apply. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:: I have to agree I don't agree with distinguishing UOL tiers on this way. It feels like giving preferential treatment and I feel like that's a slippery slope. Julian's works are invaluable that much is certain, but I'd feel weird with having UESP essentially say "this Dev's contributions matter more than this other Dev's" regardless of personal opinion on such. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 00:27, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: With all respect to Julian I don't know if he would have even himself considered this the same or equivalent to the finished project? Ultimately it was only released on the event of his tragic death as a nice treat for his fans. What would be the cutoff for what's DnD and whats TES? With all the DnD monsters and giants included in it seems like a line would have to be drawn somewhere if it was considered near equivalent to official lore. Absolutely I would like to see material from it cited as well tolerated UOL with regards to the gaps it fills in Daggerfall lore. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:31, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::: Well the reason I think there ''is'' a need is in this case is because I think it would be appropriate to make lorespace pages about the material, which is not standard for our UOL policy; I'm not just suggesting to add another tier to add another tier. This is also why we would put a notice alike the Fallout Bible header on such pages, because it is a secondary source. I'm not saying it should be treated as official. I wouldn't say these are "cutting room floor" in any fashion, it's far more like the extra source material from the bottom of [[Wikipedia:Iceberg theory|Hemingway's Iceberg]]—in the sense that this was the source material ''directly'' that was used to formulate the lore of ''Daggerfall''. I honestly can't think of another case where we have ever had direct access to documents of this style before, ever. So to me it feels like something at least worth having a discussion about here.

:::: I'd also note that Julian was the original series director for TES in the 1990s, he wasn't just any miscellaneous developer who ran a tabletop game in his off hours—I'd honestly relate it to an author like Tolkien authoring his many notes for the Silmarillion that weren't published until long after he had written them. Additionally I'd note that this is entirely a one-case scenario suggestion, as I said all other UOL should and would remain UOL. And again while we might not measure extratextual sources by tiers, we know Bethesda officially does. As you can read in Todd's statement on truth above, I think it would be more than fair to say the original notes used for fleshing out ''The Elder Scrolls'' after ''Arena'' ought to rate higher than a developer's forum text or post, which the UOL category is normally reserved for. Looking forward to further discussion on this! Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 00:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: Actually, I'll place a counter proposal here. If we were to keep the reference tier as UOL (which is what most seem to have a problem with above) but allow contents from the notes to be covered on individual pages in lorespace per the Fallout Bible extratextual page header style suggested above, I would be comfortable with the UOL designation. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:06, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::: What are examples of the material you think warrants the caveat? -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:08, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::: Sure. Firstly, I'd say "Caramon Drake", the lich of Castle Wightmoor that Baron Othrok faces against who is mentioned in the book ''[[Lore:The Fall of the Usurper|The Fall of the Usurper]]'' but is not named directly. Castle Wightmoor itself, which we possess a concept map of and details about, also mentioned in the book. Additionally there's the families of the Iliac Bay mentioned in the same book, but unnamed, would also be appropriate candidates. I could go on, but that gives a decent idea of what I have in mind in regards to lorespace additions. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:13, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::: Well that makes things kind of different as we actually have already made caveats like that in the past. That case by case we could name entries or articles after things that exist in canon but are only named in UOL, IE Parrapton, N'chorbal, and some rivers in ESO I believe. I don't think there needs to be some special category for this if enough people agree on the specific examples warranting it. As long as we aren't suggesting making things like pages for stuff with no basis like the character that is a DnD Firebolg.- [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:18, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::::: While those examples above are referenced in the official lore, there are others that are entirely extratextual -- the point of my suggesting the caveat header is so we can expand our coverage to these extratextual subjects. The Fallout wiki has been doing this for a very long time with specific documents of this sort, and their coverage of materials is better than ours for it.

::::::::: I agree than any materials referenced entirely not of The Elder Scrolls—like the Firebolg—should not feature anywhere outside of notes. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:26, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::: What is something that is entirely extratextual that would warrant an article wherein all the context about them was not already in the transcript? - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:32, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Sorry I'm not picking up your question exactly? Everything I'm referring to is contained in the released transcripts for the campaigns, if that answers that? I meant "extratextual" as in not currently hinted at in the official canon, so the opposite of a Caramon Drake or Castle Wightmoor (which are hinted at/referenced).

As far as extratextual items worth documenting, I would say the various lords of Summerset listed in the notes. Each of which have paragraph-sized biographies going over who they are any what their deal is. The map also tells us where they rule. I would also say a group like the Krysard would be deserving of a page. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:41, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

: Counter-counter proposal, how would folks feel about placing it in his own space instead of just in generalspace? Like how we have mods with their own special spaces (like say "Daggerfall Mod:" or "Tamriel Rebuilt:")—if fan mods deserves entirely special spaces like these, I think there's a decent argument to be made that the developer D&D game materials ought to have their own unique space as well. This keeps it out of official lorespace and also out of overcluttering generalspace—where we can both document and make lorespace-style pages for the contents. We can hyperlink relevant stuff to and from lorespace as necessary as UOL, nothing lost. Thoughts? Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 06:07, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::That seems like a good suggestion. I would be reluctant to create a new reference tier in case it gives the impression that all other UOL is given equal weight, which it isn't.-[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:58, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: I agree this seems perfectly fine. If modpages can have spaces then I see no reason why a developer's "lore bible" can't either. So for that specific proposal of a Julianspace I'm all for [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:46, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::Oh yeah we can probably give it a space in a similar manner to the books! Those have character bio pages and lists and such. Would make sense to treat it kinda like that. That way we could also just list all the characters and their bios. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 16:23, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: I think the suggestion to create a "Julianspace" to document the campaign fully is an interesting proposal. I also wouldn't be against lore page creation on the basis of this source either. Although usually disallowed for UOL-only concepts, I think an ad-hoc approach is appropriate if a case can be made for individual articles. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:29, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::In terms of naming lore articles, the Stargate Omnipedia uses an interesting method, since so many of the planets are unnamed in the show, but might get names in dev commentary or other non-canon sources. They name the article as the generic name (in this case, something like "Lich of Castle Wightmoor") and then have a redirect from the UOL name, with the first sentence listing the name as well as a note as why it isn't the article name. This would get around the issues involving using UOL names for the article title and still provide the information to the reader in the first sentence. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:35, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I would much rather we treat all UOL the same regardless of the source. That applies to how we reference it ''and'' how we document it, and in either case, there should be no tiering. Therefore if we create a separate namespace, it should be valid for any UOL concept to receive an article within that namespace, in the same way TIL doesn't differentiate between different developer's writings (they're all equally considered Obscure Texts). Although I would perhaps see this more logically as a subspace rooted on [[General:Unofficial Lore]] rather than a true separate namespace. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Wow, okay a lot to respond to here, lemme try and objectively boil down the proposals currently on the table so this can be talked out -- I'll leave my personal responses for another post. Many thanks to all above for offering their thoughts, it's massively appreciated!

*'''Tiered References Suggestion Rejected: No special reference tier for the notes, keep all references as UOL. Most everyone above seems massively against creating a new tier.'''
*'''Suggestion #1: Make a seperate space for overall coverage and making lorespace-esque pages about the notes. More people than not seem to find this potentially viable.'''
**Side Thought #1: One editor suggests this can emulate bookspace style in its coverage of the material.
**Side Thought #2: One editor thinks that this space should not exist at all unless it's going to cover all UOL, because it comes too close to a tiering this as higher than other UOL. The same editor suggest using generalspace for hosting all our coverage for this instead, rather than creating a new space.
*'''Suggestion #2: Two editors suggest that in an ad hoc exception, we allow the content of the notes to be used in regular lorespace -- but ''only'' the contents of these notes, other UOL would not be allowed coverage in lorespace in this fashion.'''
**Side Thought #3: Two editors suggest something similar, but that topics officially referenced can use generic names from the official source(s) for page titles and allow the content UOL from the notes to be covered there. However, the first editor suggested the approach of using the UOL names for page titles, as it was agreed to do with [[Lore:Parrapton]] and [[Lore:Lorais River]] (topics things that officially appear/are referenced officially).
**Side Thought #4: I introduced the above suggestion, while placing [[Template:Notice|notices]] at the top of such pages noting that the information is derived from a secondary source (as Nukepedia does for pages concerning ''Fallout Bible'' contents).
{{uns|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|04:59, 22 January 2026 (UTC)}}

:I also believe the suggestion of a "psuedo-space" or "subspace" still within General space suggested by Enodoc, which I'd maybe lean instead of a whole space but I could go either way really at this point. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 06:53, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

::Sorry, my bad. Had kind of a lot to compile there. That part has now been added above. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:14, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

:::Okay, following up on this. Personally my preference would be Suggestion #2 with Side Thought #4 tacked on, it just seems the simplest to implement and the most pleasant method of handling this overall in my mind.

:::The separate "julianspace" of Suggestion #1 would also work well enough. Though I'm afraid can't agree with Side Thought #2 about it somehow ''having'' to contain all UOL contents within the space... we do entirely have the discretion to decide things like this, there's not like a 'mathematical rule' that must be followed in order to decide how to handle our coverage here man. And really if fan things like ''Tamriel Rebuilt'' or ''Better Cities'' can have exclusive spaces, I think it's more than reasonable for a developer driven thing like this to have its own as well if we choose. In regards to shuffling it all into generalspace under subpages, I would dislike that and I think it would make it much harder for our users to discover and navigate the materials once recorded versus a unique space which would be on/off toggleable in UESP search. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:59, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

::::If it's my comment you're referring to as "Side Thought #2", the point was that there's no good reason to give one dev's UOL preferential treatment over any other, which was the exact same reason people opposed a separate reference tier. If it is theoretically viable for a separate namespace to be created for one dev's UOL, then it stands to reason that any dev's UOL could also theoretically have a separate namespace. Remember that TR3 and BC4 only have separate namespaces because it was decided that content didn't belong in MWMod or OBMod (spaces which already exist for mod content); so I would say for one dev's UOL to have it's own namespace primarily for the purpose of lorespace-adjacent articles, we first need to consider the parallel that any UOL concepts get their own lorespace-adjacent articles (whether directly in Lorespace, somewhere in General with the UOL source material, or in their own "UOL" namespace). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 14:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

== Trivia/citing myself as a source ==

Hey there! The social media [https://www.facebook.com/share/p/188yfZYRLL/ post about Slouchbears] reminded me of a similar bit of trivia: at PAX East 2018, in the build of ESO they had for the Summerset demo, [[ON:Bright Moons Lunar Moth|Bright Moons Lunar Moths]] didn't exist, but rather there were identical (but orange) moths named "Feather Moths" all around Summerset. Like Slouchbears, these don't exist as a creature in the final game, but the NPC [[ON:Feathermoth|Feathermoth]] is named after them, and there's two references to them in the form of a Treasure description and NPC dialogue, so we've got them listed on the [[Lore:Moth|Lore:Moth]] page.

I think it's worth adding this to the appropriate pages since trivia is always fun and it helps explain the random handful of references, but as far as I'm aware, the only source aside from my own memories is my [https://blog.uesp.net/pax-east-2018-saturday-bethesda-gameplay-day/ blog post] from April 10, 2018 where I mention them by name (though not that they were orange) - I even double-checked the ESO Live broadcasts from around that time, but those used newer builds that had the newer moths. (The event and my post were in April 2018, the demo build was from Feb according to my other post about the event, and the Chapter was released in June.) Is it appropriate in this scenario to cite my own old post as a source? ~ [[User:Alarra|Alarra]] ([[User_talk:Alarra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alarra|contribs]]) 06:41, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

:Since it was published in a blog post I believe it should be fine. Hopefully there might be something in the old files too. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 06:52, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

::To second Rim's comment, yes this is totally fine. If you're the foremost knowledgeable person that published about it, you should be able to cite your own sources as long as it is not excessive and with good faith. There is the problem of verifiability, but we have to be lenient when we don't have any other surviving sources. This happens all the time in academia (there are some edge cases and differences, as you can plagiarize yourself in academia, which would not be applicable in this scenario). --[[User:Ilaro|Ilaro]] ([[User talk:Ilaro|talk]]) 11:09, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

== Documentation about how to use icons in a page ==
I edited [[Skyrim:Enchanting]] to add a detail about renaming enchanted items on the Switch. To match the format of the section I was editing, I added a template call to put the nintendo-switch icon in next to the text I added. It took me a rather long time (15-30 minutes) to figure out how to do this, despite me having experience with Wikipedia editing and MediaWiki admin. Is there a page on this wiki explaining how to use icons when editing a page? Should I start creating one? I couldn't find one linked from [[UESPWiki:Getting Started]]

[[User:Bsammon|Bsammon]] ([[User talk:Bsammon|talk]]) 22:49, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: On the (potential) de-listing of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (from gamespace) ==

This is a proposal on why I believe we should de-list the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (and Unofficial Special Edition Patch, etc) from Skyrim's gamespace, and my reasonings for it. As a some of us know, a short while ago an exposé on the patch and its developers, albeit primarily Arthmoor, was released. I want to clarify before going deeper in that whilst -some- of this comes into play into the proposal, my main concern remains the amount of "false flag" bugs that the patch "fixes" and are eventually added to UESP (oftentimes by patch developers themselves) Skyrimspace pages. I will however be using the exposé video as a source often, as I've struggled to find the original posts lost to time, and the video does a good job of showing the most relevant ones. Whenever a source points to this video, it will be to the respective timestamped location.

A lot of these "fixes" are extremely subjective and less-so bug fixes but instead are either "balance changes" made by the mod developers, or personal interpretations of lore and the setting. All of which are classified as "bugs" by the mod developers, and subsequently so on UESP's gamespace pages. Now, there are -a lot- of these changes, impossible to document them all here, so these will inherently be cherry picked by the most blatant ones. For this reason I will actually have multiple proposals by the end of this thread. So lets begin, first with some "bug" examples.

----
* The [[Skyrim:Restoration#Necromage_when_playing_as_a_vampire|Necromage perk]] makes spells more effective against an undead. If you are a vampire, which tags you as undead, it makes self-targeted spells more effective against you. This is removed by the Unofficial Patch as it's considered a bug. On UESP it was listed a bug as well. Personally I do not see how this is a bug, an oversight or exploit at most.

* [[Skyrim:Redbelly_Mine|Redbelly Mine]] has corpses killed by spiders within. An NPC meanwhile claims no one has been hurt by spiders. The Unofficial Patch "fixes" this by removing the corpses from the mine. This isn't a bug to be fixed, this is an in-world NPC not being all knowing. This Mine also has another "bug" fixed. Albeit this second bug fix is a bit more subjective. The mine in vanilla is an Ebony mine, albeit some NPC's refer to it as an Iron mine. On the other hand, the mine is located in Shor's Stone which also makes narrative sense, considering Ebony is the blood of Lorkhan and Shor is Lorkhan. In ESO, this mine is -also- an ebony mine. The Patch changes this to an Iron mine, and whilst this is more subjective and less clear-cut, I still do not think this is a "bug". However, this one is no longer listed on Redbelly Mine's page bug list in its entirety, due to a small edit discussion from a few months ago. In addition to this, this "fix" adds an entirely new mine to Skyrim with Ebony to compensate. This is not a bug fix, this is an outright worldspace change.
** And yet, this remains controversial, with Arthmoor himself as of 6th November 2025 sharing his thoughts on what he perceives as a bug. However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach.

* [[Skyrim:Aval_Atheron|Aval Atheron]] is a general goods merchant who in dialogue claims to sell just about anything ""Assorted fruits and vegetables, all delicious and affordable!", "I've a little of everything for sale, come and see for yourself!", "Wherever I can find them. If you're the type who worries over where something came from, you may want to move on."" However his merchant stall only shows meat. The Patch considers this a bug and does the following two "bug fixes". It removes all non-meat goods from his merchant inventory, and blocks dialogue lines unrelated to meat. I have no idea how these can be considered bugs. They're listed as bugs on UESP as well.

* The famous [[Skyrim:Fortify_Restoration|Restoration Loop]] is admittedly an exploit, which is "fixed" by the patch. But personally I do not see how this is a bug. This is another extremely subjective one, and I'm mostly only including it to show how subjective bug fixes are and why globally classifying all these things as bugs could be a bad thing.

* There's a few "fixes" that on UESP are not listed as bug fixes but instead as notes, such as the Patch adding an extra room to the Ragged Flagon, or Mjoll's sword being changed from a one-hander to two-hander. Personally, if all these "fixes" were in the notes instead of "bugs" I'd have less of an issue, but then I think "why bother having them"?

* This "fix" admittedly I'm not sure if it's even on UESP, as it is incredibly time-consuming to check, and IMO if it is on UESP it isn't listed as a bug or fix, but outright in quest and npc dialogue pages. Bethesda consistently writes "jarls" in the lowercase, whilst the Patch "corrects" all mentions of jarl to use the uppercase. I'll copy paste from the patch's buglist page itself: "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before jarls and moots." -> "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before Jarls and Moots." (Bug #31783); DialogueCompanionsJorrvaskrWarTopic [000DAB27]: "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of jarls." -> "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of Jarls." (Bug #31781) They also do this with "steward -> Steward"

* The [[Skyrim:Archmage's Robes|Archmage's Robes]] can be worn with a circlet in vanilla Skyrim. The Patch considers this a bug and prevents circlets (and dragonpriest masks) from being worn together with the robe. This is also listed as a bug on UESP.

* The [[Skyrim:The_Guardian_Stones|Thief Guardian Stone]] is changed to no longer boost Archery, instead Archery is boosted by the Warrior Stone. Whilst there are two other buffs in the game which consider Archery a Warrior skill instead of a Thief skill, this still feels more like a balance change than anything. On UESP this has conflicts as well, as the Archery page lists the change as a Note, whilst the Guardian Stone page lists it as a Bug.

Okay, there's countless bugs fixed or "fixed" by the patch, I can't go through them all here. These ones caught my eye the most, and are once again admittedly cherry-picked. So, lets move onto the less gameplay and more community related issues. This will be quite subjective.
----

The patch developers have curated a hostile environment towards other bug fix mods. They've regularly abused DMCA strike systems to take down other bug fix mods and *legal* ports of his own mod where he had no standing to take it down, to the point even Nexus pointed such out.[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=XTJRU1_DaCbJ15LP&t=3039][https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/np8bi8/arthmoor_has_possibly_illegally_used_dmca_to_get/] and Arthmoor himself has harassed and belittled people so often to the extent of being banned from subreddits such as skyrimmods[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=QVVd-MWhGZO8zLAV&t=2975]. Personally, I do not want to go in length into the drama here as that is secondary. One of the sources I listed in this section is the "exposé" (as I couldn't find the original reddit posts myself easily) so if you wish, watch it and make up your own mind. Regardless, I think it is worth mentioning as it will tie into one of my proposals, so lets get onto those.

*'''Proposal One:''' This is the most lenient one. All "bug fixes" are moved to the Notes section on their respective pages, as some UESP pages already do this. This keeps the information visible whilst getting rid of the hard cut "bug" label on many things which aren't bugs.

*'''Proposal Two:''' The incoherent and more subjective "bug fixes" are removed from the pages. We can perhaps list them on the modspace for the patch instead.

*'''Proposal Three:''' All mentions of the unofficial patch are purged from UESP's gamespace. This is a nuclear option, and this is where the drama part comes in. Considering how -hostile- Arthmoor is to other modders and the general community at large, I feel weird seeing UESP "endorse" him in such a manner. I understand this one might be a bit too extreme for some, but considering the years of conflict caused by the head of this patch's dev team, I do think it's still worth considering. Moreso with Arthmoor's antics regarding his mod going as far as to deleting fair talk page related criticism on the UESP itself. Although I very much understand if the other two options, especially Proposal One, are more acceptable.

Well, that's my proposal- I hope we can have a productive conversation on this topic [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 07:27, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:On actual bugs: I think it's important to continue noting where a bug is fixed by USSEP, but I think that concept should be expanded to include any bug-fix compilation mod. USSEP is not the only mod that fixes bugs, and anything that ''is'' an actual bug-fix should not be relegated from Bugs to Notes.
:On subjective balance changes: Here I agree with Proposal One. Anything that is ''not'' an obvious bug should indeed be moved to Notes. And perhaps if we have that, we could also detail any mod that reverts USSEP's subjective changes, so anyone who is using USSEP for the bug fixes has an idea of how to restore vanilla functionality. But if we continue to indicate where USSEP actually fixes bugs, I think we also need to continue indicating the other stuff too; while it is technically not relevant, only covering half of what it does seems incomplete. Moving those things to modspace per Proposal Two could work, but we don't need that page turning into another USSEP change log list, so I think that would be less beneficial overall.
:On de-listing: As I said above, I'd rather see more mods that fix bugs being included, than removing information of when a bug is fixed. But I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of audit on what we actually consider a "bug" (based on our definition, not USSEP's). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:55, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::I've always wanted to completely purge "This bug is fixed by [mod]" from the wiki. I feel like information on mods should stay in mod-space and not be included on pages about the vanilla game. USSEP is linked to on well over 1,000 articles, which comes across as a big endorsement. I have a bugfix mod of my own, and if I were to link it on the hundred relevant UESP articles then I would generate a not-insignificant amount of revenue from the free advertising, since the Nexus page is monetised. Beyond USSEP, we also have Morrowind articles saying "This bug is fixed by [mod]" that link to a bugfix project that the active Morrowind modding community considers outdated and no longer recommend.

::Perhaps another solution would be to edit the Bug template to link to a page in mod-space that contains a list of bugfixing mods for that game. This way people can be made aware that various bugfix mods exist without choosing a single one to be advertised across the wiki. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::: I'm in full agreement with Samantha, it has also left a weird taste in my mouth to see an "endorsement" in this way. Even if it's not UESP doing it, it's still allowing it. I would personally be up for your proposal of linking to a bug fixing mod list page on a bug template instead of outright listing the mod. This would allow us to maintain bug fixes/subjective change info without showing favouritism to anyone, and without cluttering gamespace pages with 30 bug fix mods. And USSEP aside, it'd also mostly resolve the issue of outdated information as well for sure. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 19:25, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:::: Yeah, I support this. Even if the mod is super popular, we shouldn't be listing it uniquely compared to other mods. The patch infamously adds a whole other room to the Ratway for people to sleep in, which far oversteps the territory of mere bug fixing. Not that it being strictly bug fixing would mean it deserves the coverage it gets. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 23:20, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: I also support this. Proposal two is sensible, but I'm not opposed to proposal three, given how any attempts at an alternative patch for Skyrim have repeatedly shut down by the operators of USSEP under ludicrous pretenses, in some ways it is odd to endorse the project at all. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::For the sake of example, I made some edits to the Bug template to produce [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]]. Official patches have had the word "official" removed as there's no longer a need to clarify, and mod bugfixes link to "[Namespace] Mod:Mods" to showcase my suggestion. This would rename some categories, but would no longer advertise one specific mod over others. The trackerid parameter has also been removed.

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug.|OSP|1.10.0}}

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug fixed by a mod.|SRMOD}}

::::::This isn't intended to be the final template, but hopefully is something visual that can help the discussion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 22:24, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I agree that UESP's endorsement of specific mods in gamespace is a poor decision in hindsight, particularly with Arthmoor's Oblivion and Skyrim patches. Those mods are nothing short of controversial at this point, despite their widespread use, a bit like the Morrowind Sound & Graphics Overhaul became over time.

:::::::I like where Samantha is going with idea of hiding the name and version of the patch while preserving the metadata in the page's source. It may look even cleaner to remove the sub-bullet and add some sort of parenthical superscript at the end of the bug description via the template. In any case, hiding version numbers is a good idea because no general reader cares which version fixed a bug—they just use the latest version. It's only good for editors to find the relevant changelog sometime in the future. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::I agree that de-emphasizing any single bug fixing mod over others is definitely the right way to go. However I do think for people that have run into the bug, knowing which mod would fix it for them would still be valuable to include somehow, but in a way that multiple mods can be listed that makes sense, at least for bugs that impede quest progress or otherwise soft-lock you out of quests. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 03:03, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::I created [[User:Samantha Says/Bug/Mods|this page]] to show what linking to a collection of bugfixing mods could look like. It could be under <samp>Namespace Mod:Bugfixes</samp> for each game, or a single compilation page like the already existing [[Mod:Main Page]] article. The user experience in this case when reading an article would be: they see the bug, they see that unofficial mods fix the issue, and then can explore a non-exhaustive collection of bugfix projects that tackle various issues, giving them a point in the right direction for modifying their game. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 21:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

{{od}}I am in support of this proposal, provided that the policy is applied evenly across all game namespaces (i.e., remove UOP, UORP, and UORPD from Oblivion namespace, remove MPP, MCP, PfP, and OpenMW from Morrowind namespace, remove DFQFIX from Daggerfall namespace, remove every single reference to a specific mod for a specific bugfix). — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 21:35, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

:On a sidenote relating to the subject of mods and bug fixes, I believe the article [[Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] shouldn't even exist. It is unnecessary, as UESP generally documents mods that add meaningful, playable content or address a broad range of issues. Mods that fix numerous bugs, such as the [[Skyrim Mod:Unofficial Skyrim Patch|Unofficial Skyrim Patch]], are relevant because of their wide impact and significance to gameplay. By contrast, this mod addresses only a single, isolated issue, which makes it less suitable for inclusion on UESP. [[User:KevinM|KevinM]] ([[User_Talk:KevinM|talk]]) 06:39, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

::For whatever reason, I wasn't notified of updates here. So time to catch up on replies.
::I like the idea of Samantha's template especially with usage of the Bugfix Mod Collection page they made, and genuinely think that's the way to go. I also agree with Wolfborn, that we should apply this evenly across all gamespaces. With Samantha's bugfix collection page this'll be even easier to do.
::I'd also like to offer another idea for the bug/issue distinction. The term bug could be reserved for issues fixed by (official) patches, while anything modified or changed by "bug fix mods" could be called a tweak.

::* "Skyrim Patch version 1.10.0 fixes this bug."
::* "Unofficial Mods are available that can fix this bug." <-- If it fixes the same bug as above
::* "Unofficial Mods are available that can tweak this item" <-- If doesn't fix something officially recognized as a bug. This would resolve issues with subjective "bug fixes" such as Redbelly Mine

::So, '''Current Proposal'''
::- We implement Samantha's tweaked bugfix template. No singular mod is mentioned as fixing bugs anymore, instead linking to another UESP page listing various bugfix mods in each game. This makes it so UESP no longer "endorses" mods, some of which may or may not be seen as controversial, whilst allowing the content to remain and also doubling as a repository of various bug fix mods.

::I would like additional thoughts on a bug/tweak distinction as well
::[[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 13:48, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:::I don't think that it needs to be noted that a mod fixes a bug if it has been fixed by an official patch. The only time it would make sense to see this would be in remakes, for example a bug fixed in Oblivion Remastered but not the original.

:::I would suggest that "tweaks" would mean inconsistencies that go in an article's Notes section, rather than the Bugs section, and should probably not mention mods that address them. To use [[Skyrim:Redbelly Mine|Redbelly Mine]] as an example, the page currently says "the thick red mist described by the miners living in Shor's Stone is not present; the mine is clear inside." I wouldn't call this is a bug as there is no obvious typo in the cell's fog data, nor is there a demonstrable misclick that could have resulted in a red mist not being applied. Without those, this feels like a simple inconsistency (that could even be explained in-universe). This also applies to the infamous ore distribution; with no clear typo or misclick, it just becomes an inconsistency between dialogue and the cell itself, of which there are clearly many interpretations for how this could be explained.

:::I disagree that the term bug should be reserved for issues fixed by official patches, as there are unfixed bugs — especially in the older games — that can prevent quest progression or even crash the game, which are important to note for readers. I would rather define a bug on the {{tl|Bug}} doc page as a way to resolve subjective bugs being listed. This definition can be expanded in the future, but a good starting point would be:

:::*Causes game instability or crashes.
:::*Prevents or delays quest or mechanic progression.
:::*An inconsistency caused by a clear typo, for example [[Oblivion:Boots of Order|Boots of Order's]] heavy weight being 1.5 which clearly doesn't fit in the sequence.
:::*An inconsistency caused by a demonstrable misclick, for example [[Oblivion:Ra'Jhan|Ra'Jhan]] has Ra'Jahirr's house key and his bedroom door is owned by Ra'jiradh, both of which are right next to Ra'Jhan's listing in the Construction Set.
:::[[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 17:32, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

::::Does anyone else have an opinion on whether the article [[Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] should be kept on UESP? I created a deletion review [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] some time ago, but no one else commented. I then asked about it on the UESP Discord and was told I should bring the topic up here, since the discussion concerns mods and bug fixes. [[User:KevinM|KevinM]] ([[User_Talk:KevinM|talk]]) 23:11, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that the policy should be applied evenly across all gamespaces. I also agree with Samantha's definition of a bug. Restricting the term to bugs that have been officially recognised and fixed seems inadequate. In some cases, a bug that existed since launch might not get patched until much later, and it seems strange to claim that it only became a bug at that point. Mods that also include tweaks and subjective 'fixes' should be identified as such, either on the collection page or their own individual pages. As for the point Kevin raised, this proposal is likely to result in more bugfix mods getting individual pages, so I guess it depends how comprehensive we want the list to be. [[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 01:44, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::I agree with the proposal to implement a generic "bugfix" template and remove all mention of specific unofficial third-party mods from vanilla gamespace pages. It is not the purpose or function of the wiki to recommend or endorse any one individual mod for any specific purpose, and mentioning mods by name may be seen or interpreted by readers as doing so.

::::::I agree with Samantha that game "tweaks" (as opposed to clear bugfixes) should ''not'' be noted on vanilla namespace pages. There are literally thousands of mods which make thousands of "tweaks" to the vanilla games for various reasons; to note every instance would be impractical. Documenting the "tweaks" made by various mods is exactly what modspace is for.

::::::Regarding KevinM's question about a specific mod, the noted mod should remain documented on the wiki. The fact that it is a small, purpose-made mod to fix a single issue should not be a deciding factor in whether it should remain. The wiki should not discriminate either for or against the documentation of any individual mod as, again, it is not the place or purpose of the wiki to judge, rate, endorse, or recommend mods.
::::::— [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 03:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} On further thinking, I am in agreement with Samantha about the tweak-bug thing. Having a standardized "what counts as a bug" style guide page is a much better way of going about things. I'm very much on board with their counter proposals and ideas to my own and think they're the way to go.

'''Current Proposal'''

We implement (and re-iterate if needed) Samantha's tweaked bugfix template (ex: [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]] ). No singular mod is mentioned as fixing bugs anymore, instead linking to another UESP page listing various bugfix mods in each game (ex: [[User:Samantha Says/Bug/Mods|this page]] ). This makes it so UESP no longer "endorses" mods, some of which may or may not be seen as controversial, whilst allowing the content to remain and also doubling as a repository of various bug fix mods.

This policy is applied evenly across all gamespaces instead of solely to Skyrim's.

We create a bug fix style guide page showing examples of what we should consider a bug. Following Samantha's starting point ideas as a base, which I will copy below here for readability:
{{NewLine}}
*Causes game instability or crashes.
*Prevents or delays quest or mechanic progression.
*An inconsistency caused by a clear typo, for example [[Oblivion:Boots of Order|Boots of Order's]] heavy weight being 1.5 which clearly doesn't fit in the sequence.
*An inconsistency caused by a demonstrable misclick, for example [[Oblivion:Ra'Jhan|Ra'Jhan]] has Ra'Jahirr's house key and his bedroom door is owned by Ra'jiradh, both of which are right next to Ra'Jhan's listing in the Construction Set.

I hope this is something we can agree and start getting to work on. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 05:41, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:That all seems reasonable. To clarify my earlier point on tweaks, which I don't think came across clearly, I meant that if a mod contains both tweaks and bugfixes (particularly if it's a broad-based one like USP etc) the description should make this clear so users can make their own minds up.—[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:39, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

::I am very happy with this proposal and am willing to put in the work to go through existing articles to remove questionable bug fixes, move inappropriate bugs to Notes sections, and flesh out the definition of a bug. I have also added the proposed definition to the proposed template. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:::The only question I would have now (which is essentially a rewording of a point I made earlier) is how to identify which mod fixes which bug without the mod's page turning into a duplicate of that mod's changelog. Say that we end up adding more bugfix compilations than just USSEP to the list - which would be a logical extension of this activity - how do I know whether a specific bug is fixed by USSEP, USMP, WAACCF or SLAWF? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:26, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

::::That is something that will be lost in the current proposal. I'm not sure if there would be a way to achieve that without turning the Bugs section of pages into "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." Personally I would prefer the current proposal over the existing Bug template and over listing multiple mods in the gamespaces. I designed the proposed template accepting that the functionality of promoting specific bugfix mods to the user would be lost. It does at least gives users a point in the right direction on where to find bugfixing mods, for what that's worth. It felt too far a step in the other direction to remove all references to bugfixing mods entirely, though I wouldn't object to it. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 00:05, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but doesn't practically every bug in some of these games have a mod that fixes it? Seems like a redundancy to say "There is a mod that fixes this" under every listed bug in a game like Skyrim where the modding community is so vast that every consistent feature is altered, let alone the inconsistencies. I'd be fine with axing the mod mentions all-together. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 01:32, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::I'll be happy if there is enough support for the original Option 3, where references to USSEP and other bugfix mods are removed entirely. Personally, I just want ''something'' done to remove what feels like a site-wide advertisement of USSEP, whether that's by making the "This is fixed by [mod]" text more vague or removing it entirely. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 01:40, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::On Option 3, then what's the point listing bugs if all we do is saying a bug is fixable? If we list all bug fixing mods in a page and direct all fixable bugs to this page are readers supposed to search on all those mods and find the one that fixes it? This does not seem helpful at all. On the other hand if what we do is to assume the reader knows that U**P is the default bug fixing mod unless they want to dive deeper then is this not the same as promoting U**P without saying the thing? I support the "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." approach even if it seems redundant. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:13, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::Just to clarify, the original Option 3 would be removing the "This bug is fixed by..." line entirely unless it is fixed in an official patch. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

{{OD}}
To provide another example, I've created a [[User:Samantha Says/Bug2|second template]] that removes the "This bug is fixed by [mod]" line entirely. It is backwards compatible with existing pages that say it is fixed by mods. For example:
<pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|OSSEP}}
</pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|OSSEP}}

<pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|USSEP}}
</pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|USSEP}}

This approach follows the original Proposal Three, purging all references to USSEP, and goes further to cover all modded content. I think if we're removing one problematic bugfix mod from gamespace, removing all of them would be wise to prevent a similar situation from happening in the future. This approach is also much simpler than trying to be fair to every bugfix mod out there and trying to ensure that they are all equally highlighted. The documentation has been updated to include a definition of a bug, which can be adjusted as deemed fit, as well as the parameters section being slightly edited for the ones deprecated. Do we think this would be a good solution? [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 21:47, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

: Proposal 3 (nuking bug fix mods, but specifically USSEP) was always my more desired option, so i'm perfectly fine with that! Whether we go for bug fix compendium (losing specific mod fix mentions on individual pages) or removing mod fix mentions entirely, I'm in agreement. I just do not feel it is wise to have UESP continue to advertise mods this way. They can still make their own namespace like many others do regardless. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 23:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

:: I haven't read this entire discussion, but as a new player and new wiki user, I oppose the removal of the word "official" for the official patches. Learning how to play Skyrim and trying to find what you're looking for on the wiki is confusing enough (especially with the lack of centralized pages in the wiki!!!). The word official assures me that it's an actual official patch and not a mod. Plus, why do all that work to remove one word wiki-wide when that one word isn't hurting anything ? Seems like a lot of busy-work. Re: USSEP, I have liked seeing what things that mod "fixes" on the pages, because I find it interesting, although I don't use any mods because I play on Amazon Luna so I don't think I can use mods ??? Plus it seems like keeping the info would be very useful for wiki users who do use mods or that mod in particular (I assume most users who mod their game DO use that mod??). But I understand why the wiki wouldn't want to advertise one mod over all others.

:: " However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach." . . . UESP allows deleting things off the Talk pages ? Another wiki that I frequent does NOT allow things to be deleted from talk pages or even the user's own talk pages and the patrollers enforce that. - [[Special:Contributions/2603:6081:5901:43E9:A12E:FF54:25BC:8562|2603:6081:5901:43E9:A12E:FF54:25BC:8562]] 13:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I see what you mean regarding the Official term, and I am fine with keeping it for those reasons if others agree. As for the talk page comments, they are against UESP rules to be deleted yes- that is exactly why I pointed it out as an example of Arthmoor's behaviour. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 15:09, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." is a much more useful opproach than removing them all. By removing them all we are not promoting certain mods but what do users gain? An almost useless section of bugs that they still need to search for ways to fix it, albeit more difficult than before. Treat all mods equally and list them all actually benefits users so those who are against Arthmoor and his project can have other choices shown to them. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:23, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: One issue with listing them all is simply because of USSEP's abuse towards smaller mods, abusing strike systems and using general harassment to get them taken down. On the other hand, I personally do not believe most people are using UESP to find fixes for specific mods. It's much easier to just search "gamename bug desc mod fix reddit". But this is personal bias and would require more data. I am fine with either approach, and do still think just linking to a bug modfix repository page is a good way to go[[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 16:32, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::: I'm in favor of nuking all references to external third-party mods on gamespace pages. I don't care one way or the other about Arthmoor as a person or what he does or doesn't do that causes controversy, but it has been something that has slightly bothered me for years and years that we are explicitly endorsing third-party modifications to the game on the gamespace pages. The UESPWiki's job should be to document the games as they ship from Bethesda. Listing bugs and saying "This is fixed by Patch X.xx.yy" in reference to official patches is the most I think we should be doing. If there is a bug that is marked on the page, I don't think the burden is on UESPWiki to notate what mods, if any, fix any given bug. The modspace pages are there for documenting mods the wiki community deems worth documenting and the Unofficial Patch mods can live there, but the gamespace pages should be for documenting official Bethesda content. If someone wants to look up how to fix certain bugs, they can Google it. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 02:02, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::::::: Suggesting users to use Google to search for fixes? Google is quite not helpful in these situations. eg.Searching for "blood on the ice Beware the Butcher bug" does not yield any useful result at all. If any, since some bugs are engine bugs that can not be fixed by a esp, the bug section should be expanded to include those bugs and fixes for them such as Magic Effect Condition bug. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:17, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

{{od}}I do not think any change that involves providing less information to users than we currently are is a good one. Users come to UESP to figure out solutions to the bugs they encounter, especially the idea of expecting users to Google a solution to a bug in their vanilla game is a bad one as that is literally driving users away from this site to others. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 19:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:If listing mods individually isn't preferred, listing one is improperly endorsing it, listing none is harmful, and broadly saying there are mods to fix it is repetitive, then perhaps we could have a template at the top of the Bugs section on each page saying something along the lines of "For bugs not fixed by official patches, [[Skyrim:Mods|mods]] may be used to address and fix them at the cost of disabling achievements."? This would solve the issue of the same thing being listed under every bug that isn't fixed in an official patch while also not endorsing any particular mods. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 19:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::So far, I've counted 7 people for removing USP from Gamespace and 2 people against it. Though I concede that it is removing information from Gamespace articles, that information can remain accessible in Modspace. I don't think adding ''more'' mods to Gamespace pages is a good solution. If you were to argue that we would only include mods that exclusively fix bugs, then that still means USP shouldn't be listed, since it does more than just fixing bugs. I think it's fairer and far simpler to say that Gamespace should remain unmodded, and we should be helping users to find mods they want through Modspace instead of choosing a few mods to advertise in Gamespace. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 00:41, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

:::I assume this is for all gamespaces or just for Skyrim? If we stop listing unofficial mods on one game, it stands to reason we should also do the same for other gamespaces as well for consistency, right? Or is that a whole other can of worms for a different day? Regardless, I'm of the opinion still that gamespace pages need to be about documenting the game as Bethesda ships it and that it's not the place to be documenting unofficial third-party content on. Nuking all references to third-party bug fixes or other unofficial third-party content is still the ideal outcome in my opinion. That's what the various mod namespaces can function for. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 13:55, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

:::: Yes, earlier in the discussion we've come to the agreement that it's on all gamespaces. I also like Mindtraitor's above idea of "For bugs not fixed by official patches, [[Skyrim:Mods|mods]] may be used to address and fix them at the cost of disabling achievements." and think that's a great way to go. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 14:20, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

::::: I think that for people that have encountered a bug, removing the specific mod from the gamespace page that fixes it is still a step in the wrong direction for me. Sending people down the google/reddit rabbit hole just seems counterproductive. I do think however we should encourage, and enable, the listing of other mods that fix these bugs in gamespace in the bug template itself as a way of de-emphizing this specific set of "patches". If a bug is fixed by an Official patch that should be the only patch listed for each version of the game, we should be able to presume that the vast majority of players are playing with an up to date game. I do agree that for non-bugs this is porbably an entirely different view point, the rather well known Skyrim mine standing out as an example... it not being "fixed" doesn't really break the game, in the same way that Oblivions vampirism "cure" does. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 04:00, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is it time to merge the Shivering namespace into the Oblivion namespace? ==

This was discussed many years ago, and it was decided not to go ahead with it. However, with the release of Oblivion Remastered I think it's time. The Dragonborn namespace was merged into the Skyrim namespace after the release of the Special Edition, when Dragonborn was fully integrated into the base game. Shivering Isles is now in the same position: Remastered fully integrates it into the base game, so I would say that the namespaces should now be merged.

It also brings up the question of Morrowind. It's obviously not in the same situation as Oblivion and Skyrim (for now), but I don't know if it makes sense to treat it differently.

[[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 21:33, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

:I've never been a fan of the expansion namespaces. It's especially frustrating when I want to compare equipment in Morrowind and have to open three different pages just to see what's available. With the release of Oblivion Remastered, I think makes sense to merge Shivering into Oblivion space, and therefore I agree that Morrowind being treated uniquely out of all of the games would be unusual and warrant merging its expansion namespaces too. As a user, I find superscripts like Dragonborn{{Dragonborn}} and Creation Club's{{CC}} to work perfectly in letting me know that something in the article belongs to an expansion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:52, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::From what I have heard, the Dragonborn namespace merge was quite a bit of work. I wasn't around yet for that, but if true, we should get ahead while we can. When TES VI releases we'll have much great priorities than this so it's better to do this sooner rather than later. The precedent put forth by Sheridan seems valid, seems like the exact same thing as Special Edition, so for consistency, we should have Shivering stuff in the main Oblivion-space. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 00:02, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I'd also support the merge, long thought we should have done this. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: Merging namespaces is a massive amount of wiki work that needs a dedicated team for its feasibility. Many articles within the expansion pack namespaces aren't even complete in their own right, especially Morrowind's expansion packs. Articles that still need images, dialogue, and even need to be wiki-fied in the first place. I understand the desire for simplicity that comes from the merging of the expansion spaces, but I do not see a large enough payoff in the improvement of the reader's access to the site in such projects relative to the massive effort it will require; unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams. I am not inherently opposed to this happening to namespaces, but I believe gamespace for Oblivion and Morrowind both have many larger issues that need addressing before this is seriously considered. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 01:26, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that they should be merged as the expansion is base game now due to Oblivion remastered.--[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 02:16, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::Of course, I appreciate it's a lot of work, especially for a purely volunteer website. But if we leave them as is, then there will be an incongruity between the Oblivion and Skyrim namespaces. And let's say that from TES VI onwards we decide to keep all expansions in the main namespace from the beginning. Morrowind and Oblivion will become increasingly anachronistic. And the Dragonborn Merge Project obviously suffered from having to figure everything out for the first time. Now that we know what to do, it will simplify the process at least a little bit. I just think that there's a good chance that the merges will end up being inevitable, depending on our approach to future games and their DLC. It's better to start early, since as [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] points out TES VI will obviously become the main priority when it releases. Even if it is still years away. Right now there's not a lot going on in TES world, apart from new content for ESO. If not now, when? [[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 13:43, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::The "when" is already described in my message above - "unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams."
:::::::As I've laid out above, these namespaces are already neglected by editors as is. To put in perspective, the UESP started an effort to document every item in each game on individual pages in their namespaces last year, and this project has seen almost zero progress since its announcement due to a fundamental lack of editors simply contributing to it in the first place.
:::::::Who are we proposing do all of this work? I do not believe it would be fair to expect the very few active editors in gamespace to put this on their plate without any plans or commitment from the wider community. Wanting the merge to happen is great, but a want is not enough to produce results. Again - I do not see the net benefit to our readers in comparison to instead sourcing and spending such massive effort on actually completing documentation in these namespaces in the first place. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 14:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:The merging for Oblivion would also make sense from a technical perspective as, unlike the Morrowind or Skyrim expansions, the Shivering Isles content was added to oblivion.esm directly. There's no shivering.esm like there are tribunal.esm, bloodmoon.esm, dawnguard.esm, hearthfire.esm, and dragonborn.esm. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 14:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::What I think is being misunderstood here is why the Dragonborn-Skyrim namespace merge finally ended up happening. It wasn't because the esms merged, at least not directly. The main issue was that Skyrim continued to get new content through the Creation program, and that new content was using bits an pieces from Dragonborn and Skyrim equally, so it was nearly impossible to figure out where exactly to place a quest. Something might start in Solstheim, then move to Skyrim proper, or vice versa, with equal bits of each.

::This just isn't the case for the remaster. Things are pretty clearly still delineated between SI and OB content, and the small number of new quests added have stuck to one area. There isn't a bunch of other random new official content being added to the game (at least, as far as we are currently aware), so there isn't a real reason to merge them at this time. It's a back end thing that really doesn't affect most editors or readers, and so the amount of effort involved (which ended up being significantly more than expected) is just not worth it. People want the merge just because they want it. But what it really boils down to is not typing two different letters for some pages. That's just not a good enough reason for all the effort, and a botched merge could be devastating for the wiki. It's not all that easy to just "undo" if it goes wrong. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:12, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::At this point a merge isn't worth the hassle. As Jeancey said above, the Dragonborn merge happened not because of Special Edition, but because of Creation Club, where they started releasing content that could no longer be delineated. As far as I know, the additional content in OB Remastered Deluxe is contained entirely within Cyrodiil, and doesn't cross over to the Isles at all, like Knights of the Nine.

:::While we've already agreed that we won't do separate namespaces for DLCs and expansions in the future, where separate namespaces already exist, the only viable reason to remove such a delineation is when the delineation itself is no longer viable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:03, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::This merge would be the ideal state of the wiki if all work could be done flawlessly with a bot. But it can't. Considering that number of edits dropped 78% from 2024 to 2025, the idea is effectively dead in the water. Renaming so many core content pages also carries negative effects by breaking external links and may be bad for search engine optimization, at least in the short term. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::Dillonn said exactly what I was thinking. While in some respects, having Oblivion all as one namespace might be ideal, we learned from the Dragonborn merge just how much work that is, especially for the bot programmers. I'm chronically ill and have made a point of cutting back on the amount of work I'm doing. I don't see it being feasible, at least not for me, to go through all that effort when there's very little gain, and it would introduce the SEO and link-breaking issues Dillonn mentioned. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:36, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace ==

Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace

Hello everyone. I'm proposing, with a proof of concept prototype, of a way to wrap all the dialogue on the Bladespace into neat little dialogue boxes that are cleaner, more compact and directly show the difference between conversation partners. (For the short version, [[User:Probored1/Sandbox2|just open this page]] and scroll down to see the dialogue box in question.)

I’d like to open a discussion about improving how we present dialogue across the Blades namespace. I know you're all used to it by now but give me a chance to lay my case. The current system, using colon indents (: / ::) along with two italicized apostrophes for NPC lines and three bold apostrophes for player lines has worked for a long time, after all no one has felt the need to change it after 30 years.

However, I find it increasingly unsatisfying. Long conversations turn into either densely crammed or porous walls of text that are hard to follow. The visual distinction between NPC and non-dialogue lines feels dated and inconsistent, and readability on mobile is often poor. While some namespaces have nicer custom dialogue layouts ([[Battlespire:Scamp|Battlespire being the best example]]), and others have attempted to build their own (See: [[User:Salamangkero/Template 1|Gheart's and Salamangkero's proposal for Morrowind]]), those approaches are too manual and were created simply to present data in a nicer flow rather than actually present it. As we're building up the Blades namespace, from which dialogue input into its pages is still relatively in its infancy, we've got a chance to build a primary dialogue wrapper first to then apply to the rest of the pages.

At the moment; take a look at [[Blades:Saashi]]. It is a mess of dialogue where you need to strain and recenter your eyes everytime to find out what is a normal text line and which one is italicized, and thats not even mentioning how messy trying to figure out where the indents could be on the longer conversations.

Here is an example taken from the page:

╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗

====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."''

╚════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

To address this messiness, I created a working proof-of-concept built within [[Template:DialogueTreeSetup]], which uses [[Module:DialogueTreeSetup]] (built with the existing Scribunto Lua extension).The usage is very simple. You wrap all your existing dialogue like this (without the \):

<pre>{{DialogueTreeSetup: <all your text here> }}</pre>

A simple wrapper that goes around your entire text without changing any of it, but using the already existing model of colons, indents and apostrophes to build the new model. Heres what it looks like:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/User:Probored1/Sandbox2

Compare the above to its original

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Blades:Saashi

In fact I'll even post an example here.

╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
<pre>
{{DialogueTreeSetup:

====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."'

}}
'</pre>

╚════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

turns into:

{{DialogueTreeSetup|
====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."''}}

Does this look better? I hope it does. I vibecoded it so its got some documentation issues, but it uses the Lua Scribunto extension thats already on the wiki. It automatically converts old <pre>:</pre> <pre>''</pre> <pre>'''</pre> dialogue into clean, boxed sections. It uses background (#efe1bc) thats usually used for code blocks. It distinguishes based off of color NPC lines from Player lines. It converts automatically the following : , :: , '' , ''' , /n and without any user input. Its basically something you can copy paste at a page without worrying about reformatting the whole thing. I made it so that it works with the already existing dialogue format, and that you can still use it without changing a single thing about it.It detects when a line of dialogue doesnt start with a : or :: and immediately stops the dialogue box to let the wiki text work without interference. It works with ===Headlines=== tooIts got much tighter and more professional appearance with minimal whitespace and colorblind-friendly contrastAgain, it works with your existing workflow, just wrap the old text.

However, there is one major limitation: performance. I can use it for this page because I only wrapped a small amount of text. But on larger pages (such as Blades:Saashi), it takes a whopping '''11 seconds''' for the page to load for me. This makes it completely unacceptable for site wide use in its present form. I was told a PHP extension using the same logic would bring load times down to roughly 2–4 seconds, which would make it practical.I am thus ''not'' proposing this as a finished solution yet, but something like this does deserve a discussion. I would appreciate your thoughts on the general direction and visual style. Would you be open to a PHP extension of this dialogue wrapper as the base template for all Blades pages? Are there any changes to the colors, spacing, or behavior you would like to see? Would you like to see it in other spaces? I’m happy to refine it based on feedback. Thank you for taking the time to read this. [[User:Probored1|Probored1]] ([[User talk:Probored1|talk]]) 03:04, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:'''Lightly Oppose''': This is an interesting proposal, and I commend the work done on the Lua-based template! That said, I see a few cracks in this idea.

:First, a correction: The current dialogue formatting used on most namespaces is not 30 years old. I believe it's as old as the ESO namespace. Before that, UESP focused on in-line dialogue conversations, especially for ''Oblivion'' ([https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:Permalink/2744956 Example]), and it was awful for scannability. It was only a few years ago that these started being converted over. Concerning the proposal, I don't see much of an issue with the standard format that would justify adding even one extra second of load times to pages, let alone two to four seconds at best with PHP. Load times are one of the most important SEO metrics, and also bog down both the reader and editor experience, making clicking around the namespace a pain. Is there a way to implement this using CSS or JavaScript instead? Perhaps it can be an optional gadget for readers who need the extra visual separation of dialogue blocks.

:As for your specific styling itself, am I missing something or is this simply adding color to the bold text and a background color box around the block? That's introducing various related issues like dark mode compatibility, WCAG accessibility e.g. contrast standards, and the clunkiness of having code blocks everywhere. The dialogue sections of pages are virtually all dialogue except for a short intro phrase. This also adds another step to documenting dialogue, which I expect should be kept as simple as possible considering Blades documentation is on a tight deadline. Improved formatting can wait until after the shutdown. Another issue is sitewide consistency; for example, colors have a specific meaning in some ESO dialogue and could potentially see expanded uses in other namespaces to reflect different types of choices.

:In any case, I don't want this post to sound negative, and I think you're doing a good job looking for ways to improve the site's visuals. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 04:10, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::Regarding the dark mode compatibility, as well as the unmentioned mobile functionality, this can be addressed with CSS with only small Lua tweaks in much the same way all the other template formatting is done. (I mostly just need to get a spare 30 minutes to look at it.) '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 05:15, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::'''H'''ey thanks for the quick reply. I have no arguments against SEO, and its loading times are absolutely what will sink or swim this project. As I said, most of this project is vibecoded from a LLM, and while I stopped experimenting with it, a few of the other admins and users experienced with the site's CSS did take a look at it and offer similar criticism related to switching to another method. However, I possess no coding experience and one of the purposes of this project was simply to get myself familiar with theses tools in the first place. One of the admins stated they were interested in taking a look at it just to see if it could be taken anywhere. As such, I can't actually answer if CSS, Javascript, or turning it into a simple gadget would work.

::On the other hand, I was told early on about the issues with dark mode. I had practiced trying to get CSS compability by assigning it a template to [[Template:DialogueTree/styles.css]] and I think its in a working state, and can be edited in without too much trouble. The boxes themselves are inspired by code blocks yes, but I was definitely planning on adding differences between both the player and the NPC to differentiate it more than the original text as seen here

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/261887896930353155/1488300085279330314/Capture_decran_le_2026-03-30_a_18.07.20.png?ex=69cd9877&is=69cc46f7&hm=f4dc68a2e8b53ac4984eb6ac82d0a474763caa94208922c75f2201be4e30c189&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

::However due to feedback I received on the discord, I was told it would look better if I simply went back to using italics and boldness. At the end of the day I simply wanted a wrapper that would make this text readable, and I think I largely succeeded in that. Its far more pleasant to my eye and makes reading theses pages less of a issue for me.

::On the matter of it changing how dialogue gets documented...No, that was precisely the point of this wrapper. Nothing gets changed. Yes it adds a single additional step of adding a {DialogueSetupTree| } in every page, but the actual format we used before did not break whatsoever. Nothing has changed in the way we submit the lines between NPC and player, the indexing and colons and formatting we use. Its simple given a touchup on top of it.

::On the matter of sidewide consistency, there is next to no consistency from one game to the next. Perhaps Skyrim and Blades are similar, but I provided evidence that Battlespire and Morrowind use different dialogue formats inherent to their properties. [[Daggerfall:Totem, Totem, Who Gets the Totem?|Daggerfall uses code blocks and italics]] to reflect that most dialogue is delivered from one direction only. Skyrim has NPC with NPC conversations that do not address the player and [[Skyrim:Fjotra|are different even on the same page]]....The point is that there is no sitewide consistency between different games. This wrapper is for Blades and exists solely for Blades. Perhaps a different one could be used for a different game, but this is what I made for it nonetheless. With kind regards, [[User:Probored1|Probored1]] ([[User talk:Probored1|talk]]) 05:35, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:::Most of the CSS isn't in the Lua Module anymore, and is back in the /style.css page, for tan-desktop I copied the exact CSS out of the Module. For dark mode i've adjusted the colors obviously. I haven't looked at mobile yet, I think that's just margin tweaking though. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 06:10, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::::I certainly like the idea of making dialogue more visually distinct from the text around it, and I would suggest that should be applied to every modern namespace (ESO and Skyrim as well), not just Blades.
::::What I don't like is the idea of using a code script to change the expected output of wiki formatting to some obfuscated alternative. <code><nowiki>'''</nowiki></code> is bold, <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> is italic, <code><nowiki>:</nowiki></code> is indentation, and those should always produce the expected output. They should never produce (in the same order) blue text and bold text (using the linked screenshot as the example). If the aim is to change the formatting, we should change the formatting properly, and use a template for the display box, e.g. (colours are arbitrary):
::::<code><nowiki>{{Dialogue/start}}</nowiki></code>
::::{| style="border: 1px solid #E9B759; background: #F5DEB3;"
|-
|
:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''
|}
::::<code><nowiki>{{Dialogue/end}}</nowiki></code>
::::Incidentally I don't like the coloured text in the proposal (or the stupid linebreaks in the source), so I took those out of this example. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 09:59, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

UESPWiki:Community Portal

2026-04-01T06:10:35Z

Kiz: /* Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace */ cmt

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;<big>Active Discussions</big>
Many discussions of community-wide interest are held on pages other than the community portal. Discussions about specific policies belong on the policy talk pages, for example. The following table lists other discussions that are currently in progress on other talk pages. If you start a discussion on another talk page, please add it to this list. If a discussion listed here has been inactive (i.e., no comments of any type in at least a week), please remove it from the list.

{| class="wikitable"
! Location !! Date started !! Topic !! Listed here by

|-
| [[Template_talk:Online_Quest_Header#Storyline_Parameter|Online Quest Header]] || 5/19/2025 || Storyline Parameter|| [[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]]
|-
|}

== Port Starfield Place Logic ==

Currently NPCs have a "loc" field which is text and is typically a link to a location. There is a desire to build automatic "People" tables which are derived from data so that we move away from large templates to represent the people in a location. In Starfield wiki, there is a "In Place" template which populates the Metatemplate variables with information about the place, and then this data is pulled by the Starfield People tables.

The In Place template is used extensively in various summary templates (like NPC Summary, where it replaces the loc parameter), however it can be used independently if an NPC can appear in multiple places.

* [https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Template:In_Place In Place Template]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Autopeople Autopeople template, which uses the data]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Starfield:Cydonia_People&action=edit Example Usage]

While copying over this logic is very simple, migration of current NPC pages is a much larger task which will likely be mostly manual. For example, many NPCs only have their primary location on their summary page, however each location that they can appear (temples, inns, etc) will also have the NPC information on it. All of this data would need to be consolidated to the NPC table for the data to be consistent.

In addition to this, to have automated People tables, a "Services" parameter will need to be added to the NPC pages, however that is a much more minor change.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]])
: The notion of all of that information being duplicated as is sounds like a ringing endorsement for changing it so it's in only one place to me.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]])

::I think this makes sense - anything that reduces duplication is a good plan. Looks like "place" in the Starfield NPC Summary wraps the In Place template but is still overridden when "loc" is defined, so nothing would break immediately and we can take the time to decide which things do and don't need to be edited. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:57, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::In Starfield Wiki, I just kinda migrated one list of people at a time to have place and be auto-generated, until I ran out of lists to migrate. It was a pretty clean transition. Also added a category (Starfield-NPCs_Without_Place) to try to figure out where the rest were as many were not on any People lists. It certainly doesn't have to be some big "Do it quick as everything is broken until it's done" kind of transition.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]]) 21:39, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::: I don't like this suggestion as-is. The "loc" parameter is not strictly defined enough to be useable for auto-populating People tables. See for instance the [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online:Molag_Kena&oldid=3381525 rich formatting] on [[Online:Molag Kena]]. If we already need to add a "Services" parameter to pages for this to work, then we need a second, stricter location parameter as well. To me, that seems like too much work to replace what is currently there. I don't see any issue with manually populating our People tables as desired, particularly when most of our namespaces have a (fairly arbitrary) "People vs NPCs" distinction. Those tables are not hard to maintain and are pretty much static for the older games. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::I agree with Legoless. We should at least try this on the test wiki before implementing anything, particularly with regards to ESO: we distinguish between generic NPCs and non-generics. Generic NPCs don't go in the People table in Online articles, they're typically noted in the paragraph following the infobox. Additionally, the loc field is not a reliable place for us to be getting headers for People tables: some NPCs in towns and such have very specific and arbitrary locations, like "West of (CityName's Stable)". Like Legoless said, the rich text throws a wrench in there. It's often necessary rich text, too. We also can't just pull strictly from Online links in the loc parameter to sort NPCs under People table headings: some NPCs have stuff like "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" in their loc parameter. That's two Online links in the loc parameter: would the automated process try to put the NPC under both places, or make a new header? "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" is a very arbitrary and limited heading, and while we often do file NPCs under arbitrary and specific headings, it's much easier to manage them when People pages are created manually.

:::::ESO's People pages are also mostly finished: yes, new content is being developed yearly, but there aren't a lot of NPCs who need to be put on a people table at this point. Most of the legwork lies in putting the People tables from smaller locations like [[Online:Fharun Stronghold|Fharun Stronghold]] on their own pages. I do appreciate the effort to try and make things easier, but this could hurt more than it helps. If this were suggested earlier in ESO's lifespan, I'd have less objections to it, but at this point, it seems unnecessary to port everything like this when the system we already have works. —[[User:MolagBallet|MolagBallet]] ([[User talk:MolagBallet|talk]]) 15:31, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

== Item Redesign Project Proposal ==

Hello, I'd like to discuss a project I've worked on a little bit on my own, but would like to greatly expand and formalize a little. The Item Redesign Project would aim to fill in the largest gap remaining in UESP coverage of The Elder Scrolls as a whole, and the most requested area of coverage the UESP regularly receives from readers. This will also benefit the UESP itself by improving its SEO. Most of the pages that would be worked on or created for this project would help UESP be more easily found by people searching, as sites that don't have specific pages rank low compared to ones that do. We'd essentially be starting to compete for item page rankings finally.

The focus of this project will be documenting, expanding, improving, and creating pages related to items. There are multiple steps to this, and multiple things to consider.

The overall goal would be to move away from just having list articles, to having actual articles for items, along with maintaining and improving existing lists, while also creating more. Most of this work will be for Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO, but other games may be worth considering for this project.

===First Steps===
The first goal towards this will be a bot run to mark existing item pages as in the scope of this project, and considered for making sure it will match our site standards for items and standardize them. There will also be a series of bot run to create new start articles. I personally was against this recently, but an argument from Legoless really opened my eyes to why we should consider doing this. If we had made these pages years ago, we'd have had years worth of edits to improve upon them. If you (the UESP) build(s) it, they (editors) will come. There is just an extra degree of unwillingness for a person to create a page from scratch over improving an existing page. Take for instance [[Lore:Nerevarine]], an article about a fairly important character in Elder Scrolls lore, who did not have an actual lore page before last year. But after I decided to throw a blurb from [[Lore:Hero]] onto its own article, roughly 2k bytes of text, it has expanded greatly into 50k bytes of text. By simply creating an actual article, editors showed up who wanted that to be a better one.

So this means this process will ultimately involve:

*The creation of a project page for the Item Redesign Project
*Creation of a redesign template similar to previous ones for other redesign project (like [[UESPWiki:Oblivion NPC Redesign Project|OBNCRP]]).
*Creation of a [[UESPWiki:Style Guide|Style Guide]] page for items
*A series of bot runs to add the template to pages.
*A series of bot runs to create the new individual item pages.
===Item Page Improvement===
The ultimate goal of each indivdual item page will be:

*Provide a physical description of the item
*Take a picture of the item
*Present technical information (primarily through infoboxes)
*Have any enchanting-related information covered
*Cover any particularly unique strategies/options/features of the item
*Find and list any dialogue related to it
*Provide use information on the item (one existing example of this information can be found on [[Morrowind:Broom]] as an example)

I think this should ultimately create a high standard of content that is reasonably achievable by editors.
===List Pages===
[[File:MW-item-War Axes.jpg|thumb|right|An example of a group image, useful for a list page]]We can also provide improvements for list pages, primarily by identifying gaps in what people might want for list articles. For example, there was not a list for [[Oblivion:Longswords|Longswords in Oblivion]] and a few similar topics until the recent work of Eve and Leopard. These definitely make sense as a target for lists, and there are certainly more like these out there still. One other example comes from [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild Armor Set]], which I created towards trying to present a high quality page that lists all relevant information related to an item set. It provides images of the set, how to acquire it, a condensed table with info on the set, common info related to all items, and then the individual pages for each item of the set. I think this would be a good standard for any similar set of equipment in the mainline games.

In general, I think the steps towards improving list pages would include:
*Identifying missing list pages that may be desirable
*Providing general information about the list (for example, providing UESP editor written descriptions for [[Morrowind:Base Weapons]] instead of just using NPC quotes)
*Providing unique image(s) for the list (like a group set for whole sets of items similar to Morrowind efforts)

===Some Existing Pain Spots===
I also think some focus should be given to some existing pain spots. For example something that I would see as part of this would be the individual item pages for [[Online:Furnishings]]. A tremendous amount of fantastic work has been done to get these pages as documented as they are, and it is by itself one of the single biggest segments of the UESP Wiki making up almost a fourteenth of the UESP's existing page count. One of the main ways these pages could be improved is by having editors help add prose descriptions to them. Virtually every ESO furnishing has an image and infobox, but not a physical description of the item written. One step towards this could be another botrun providing a very basic description, hopefully indicating to people that one is desired. For example, one suggestion provided by The Rim of the Sky:

''<x> is a <size> <type> furnishing item in the <category> category. It is available from <main source> and other sources.''

This should be doable by a botrun. A further one written by a human is still desirable, here is an example I put together on [[Online:Petrified Watcher]].

The other major existing pain spot to my knowledge is the individual item pages for Blades. It's nice that Blades is as documented as it is, but we should be able to do a similar bot run for these items as well, and likewise getting human touch ups for the actual description. I did a few tests, [[Blades:Chaurus_Helmet_(divine)|one example]], that may be considered for both developing the bot run text as well as a minor example of human-based additions that could improve these pages.

===Final Thoughts===
This will ultimately be a very big undertaking, but starting this project will be worth it to finally fill in one of the last major gaps of UESP coverage. It will also be one of the most truly substantial bumps we can give ourselves on the SEO front. This proposal will hopefully serve as a good starting point towards the standardization of item pages, as well as for discussion about this proposed project itself. Obviously any insight or suggestions from any editors would be greatly appreciated, and I hope this is a project that the UESP will want to take part in!

One of the bigger considerations for a very significant amount of the work on the project is related to the bot side of this. I have spoken with a few people ([[User:Daveh|Daveh]] and [[User:RobinHood70|RobinHood70]]) about assisting with this project via data pulls and bot runs, and both gave pretty hopeful answers about potentially assisting us in getting those done. Use data for Morrowind, for example, has already been created, and similar bot runs have been performed before. This will give this project a decent head start towards its final goal.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you wish to join this project! --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:35, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:I have long been in support for individual item pages and fully support this proposal. Despite what some have suggested I believe it is genuinely much more helpful and not simply a means of "competing" with other wikis. It is such a useful thing that can be helpful in giving more detailed descriptions of locations and other data that I have occasionally been forced to use other wikis for when our lists weren't adequate. Of course another helpful thing will be having images of individual items. Many times have I found myself needing a picture of a specific weapon or armor piece only to see that it only exists in a group picture.
:Anyways, I digress, I support the proposal! - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 04:43, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::I'd like to add my support as well, individual item pages would be great! --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 04:50, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I'm onboard with this project. I think it has merit, even if it's not how things have been done in the past. Anything we can do to add more content, without hindering usability, should be seriously considered. The SEO side of this shouldn't be understated; if it's going to make an appreciable difference, then it needs to happen. The scope is large, but that doesn’t necessarily make it unmanageable.
:::*A focused project design page that lays out clear examples and provides the groundwork for necessary templates and transclusions will be crucial to its success.
:::*Page creation will also need to be a key focus. Having a good base page so that those without knowledge of the project page can add information without their work going to waste is important. This will help reduce the overall work those that do know about the project may have to do. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 05:05, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::: I have long been in favour of individual item pages for the reason mentioned above by AKB: by failing to create them, we have lost out on years of crowdsourced help with tackling this daunting task. Creating these pages has been a prominent suggestion from readers since our [[UESPWiki:Survey Results/Other Comments|2012 user survey]] at the earliest. I like UESP's existing item lists for navigation, but there's never been anything stopping us from simply adding item links to those existing tables.

::::: On the above proposal, I do feel it isn't necessary to have a dialogue check on every item page when 90%+ will not have any relevant dialogue associated with them. We had discussions in the past on where best to document dialogue (quest vs NPC pages), and I think we settled on NPC pages as the home for dialogue / dialogue checks. It's an extra piece of work for editors to confirm "no" on thousands of items. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:39, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::Sounds good to me! Proper descriptions, images and location information I think would be the main reader benefit. For list pages, ideally we would be able to pull info to them from the individual pages with things like <nowiki>{{#listsaved:}}</nowiki> rather than duplicating the info on multiple pages. Regarding dialogue specifically, I also don't really think that would be necessary unless it's something like the Savant quote from Morrowind which talks about that item specifically. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:30, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I just want to say that I fully support this project and the ideas that have been presented so far. Although I don't have any suggestions, I too believe that it would vastly improve how item information is presented compared to the current format, and I look forward to seeing how this project progresses. —[[User:Leopard|Leopard]] ([[User talk:Leopard|talk]]) 14:54, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I support this project and absolutely hope and pray there will be at least a base templated sentence we can input for Furnishings, as this is a huge section as stated above. At one time, I had dreams of making each furnishing page quite robust, but not everyone had been in favor of it. Thankfully, more editors are starting to help fill in these gaps and the oft-underused sections of the Online Furnishing Summary template can now be used! '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 16:13, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} While I agree with the need for separate item pages for useful items (weapons, armor, decorations, etc), I want to call out one set of items that I believe should NOT get separate pages. ESO Contraband Items I do not believe would be helped by having separate pages. We already do really well in this regard with our updated lists, and the items don't really have any additional information that the lists provide. One thing I think we CAN do better in this regard are better pages on the contraband TYPES. Which NPCs are the sources of which contraband types, information on likelihood of drops based on difficulty, etc. In addition, I don't think we need separate pages for each part of the ESO armor styles (i.e. we don't need a separate page for Altmer Style Shoulders, Altmer Style Belt, etc.) The existing pages for Styles could be improved, namely by moving the pictures of the entire outfit from the gallery into the lead (or into the infobox maybe). There might be other types of items where a separate page doesn't really make sense, but I'd have to look into it. Off the top of my head, having separate pages for, say, Rubedite Ore and Rubedite Ingots, or for some of the junk items in ESO. The MMO nature of the game, I think, changes things for many of these item types. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:11, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:Oh yes, I 100% agree ESO should be more of an exception due to the way the game works. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 17:22, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::A much needed change. Before I edited the wiki I was a frequent user, and it was one of my common complaints that individual item pages did not exist. Like Jeancey mentioned, some exceptions should exist.[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 01:13, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

:: I support the change, certainly helpful for many item lists, but I do agree, that some lists such as eso's contraband should stay the way it is.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 13:16, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

::: From an seo standpoint, every item should have its own page. Google lists us lower or even will list the wrong page when we don't have that. I've posted examples in the discord before. List pages aren't going away, but there's nothing wrong with having the info in both a list and on a page. This also allows for us to add more info like pictures of locations, maps where the items can be found, etc. [[User:Eckserah|Eckserah]] ([[User talk:Eckserah|talk]]) 16:13, 12 July 2025 (UTC)

== Honorary Featured Status -- Julian LeFay ==

Julian LeFay has passed away. While it is not normal procedure, I would like to propose that we grant his article honorary status as a featured article and bump it to the front page immediately. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:40, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
: I'm all for this. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:: Seconding this, the page has enough content but hopefully we can improve it in any way we can to better honor him. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::: I agree, there are few who've had as much of an impact on these games as he had and it would be a neat way to honour him. [[User:Theolaa|Theolaa]] ([[User talk:Theolaa|talk]]) 05:00, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::: Yes, of course. RIP [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 05:32, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::: Agreed.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 09:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Agree [[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 10:16, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Agree.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:52, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Featuring it now on the front page sounds like a great idea. I'm not sure what you mean by "honorary featured status", but whether or not it fits the quality of a Featured Article should be decided later, at a time when it can be considered fairly against the criteria, so it should not be categorised or starred as a Featured Article. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:03, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: I agree. In whichever way it should be done. But at the least, immediately. '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 14:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::: Agreed. [[User:The Entity|The Entity]] ([[User talk:The Entity|talk]]) 14:44, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Please do it. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 14:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} The [[Main Page/Featured Article|featured article]] has now been changed to Julian LeFay. Would we also like to change the Featured Image to [[Lore:Julianos|Julianos]], who was named after Julian? I would vote we display the [[:File:MER-art-The Hierophant.jpg|tarot card art]] for that, since this would be an honorary FI and the tarot card can't usually be nominated due to standard FI rules, the card itself having some really great artwork. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:23, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, sounds fitting -- [[User:SarthesArai|SarthesArai]] [[User Talk:SarthesArai|Talk]] 19:09, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:: +1 to snowball the Julianos FI. 20:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

::: +1 Julianos FI, but I might pick the TES2 statue instead since that was Julian's game. But either would be lovely. --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 21:24, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} Both the FA and FI have now been updated in honor of Julian, and will remain this way for at least the next month.
It is good that we are able to pay tribute to him like this, as I don't believe many of the more casual TES fans even knew who he was. His death didn't get a lot of coverage outside of TES circles either. As the creator of one of the most popular video game series and influential fantasy worlds of contemporary times, he should definitely get more credit for his legacy, and I don't feel like just one month is enough. I would like to propose that we also update some of the site logos and wordmarks to have the subtitle "In Memory Of Julian LeFay (1965 - 2025)" or some variation of it, similar to how the Ben 10 Wiki honors one of the show creators annually in their wiki wordmark:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/e/e6/Site-logo.png/revision/20240701050232 (Check [https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Site-logo.png file history] in case link is broken)

We can put this right under the "Elder Scrolls Pages" part of our main logo. Along with [[General:Vijay Lakshman|Vijay Lakshman]], [[General:Ted Peterson|Ted Peterson]], [[General:Christopher Weaver|Christopher Weaver]], Julian is one of the few people who can be credited with co-creating the franchise this wiki is based on. In the words of Bethesda Christopher Weaver, ''"If I’m credited with giving birth to The Elder Scrolls, then Julian deserves credit as the one who fathered it."'' He still had more ideas he wanted to share on the Wayward Realms and was taken from us too soon. I propose that we add this to the wordmark until at least the end of 2025 so that more people can remember him and learn just how much he did for the series. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 20:00, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

:I'd be for the idea absolutely. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 20:06, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

::I would suggest the [[MediaWiki:Tagline|Tagline]] and maybe the [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]], rather than the logo. That would work better for screen readers as well, which can't read text if put in an image. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:39, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::Hmm, something else we could do is grab the Julian LeFay entry from [[Main Page/Did You Know|Did You Know]] and take it out of the random selection so it's permanent, rather than part of the cycle. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:50, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

::::As a reader of the UESP, in my opinion Sitenotice would be the least invasive option while also not modifying the branding like the "Your source for The Elder Scrolls..." blurb. Messing with the logo wouldn't be ideal in my opinion since the text already on it is hard to clearly read on some smaller devices as it is since its colors blend into the logo like they do already. More text on the logo would just make it look more cluttered and muddy in my opinion. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 13:35, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I think putting the LeFay entry in the DYK blurb for the rest of the year could be a good move. I'm not on board with Sitenotice as a substitute since its purpose is in the name of being a Notice, any "notice" related to this would be the news article, unless we know what to link in the notice like say [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefay-passes-away-at-59 Imperial Library's touching tribute] I don't think its the best option. Tagline is also minimal since the font is tiny and most people just tune it out of their purview, so while I don't see it as a substitute I could see us doing something with it as well. Any concerns about the colors on the logo are solved by just making it white text with a black outline, and any concerns about it being small could be solved by making increasing the font size. Its not really about putting in everyone's face, its about modifying something consistent and sitewide to honor someone who was very important to us to show just how much they meant. We're still working on some logo mock-ups but we should have some options ready soon. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Suggestion to ban the usage of ai text generation for lore articles. ==

As we all know we are in the age of AI generation where AI has come along way and given there has been people, using ai for stuff in lore pages. With one user admitting to such in the altmer lore talk page. This could become problematic if its not addressed, its one thing to use ai for correcting grammar but to write lore page sections. I feel it like, downgrades the integrity of the uesp. So I recommend a total ban on using ai for such purposes and having a rule against the usage of ai. This spoken from a user that uses toolbarz website to generate my own ai stories but I have not once used ai to write stuff on lore articles or the uesp, using ai stuff on ones own user pages or fanfiction pages is fine but not on lore articles. There is a place for ai but I think people should be the main contributors not robots when it comes to informantion placed on lore pages. Since I've seen no sign of such a suggestion, I'm adding it in.[[User:TheVampKnight|TheVampKnight]] ([[User talk:TheVampKnight|talk]]) 01:40, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:I agree with banning the use of AI to write articles. Using AI to spellcheck is one thing, but using AI to write original prose is a big no. Right now it is nowhere near advanced enough to write about TES lore with accuracy. On top of that, the flow of AI writing never sounds natural. A lot of AI usage is also theft, since AI only knows how to copy and rearrange things, not create anything of substance. It has no place on wiki articles. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 01:53, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::AI, like Daedra, cannot create, only imitate, so I vote "strictly no AI slop in wiki content namespaces". [[User:DaExile|DaExile]] ([[User talk:DaExile|talk]]) 02:02, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::: I think we need to follow Wikipedia's (draft) policy on [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AI-generated content|AI-generated content]]: "Because of the pervasive presence of [LLMs] in everyday tools it is not possible to ban it entirely", but "[p]ersistently introducing computer-generated content in violation of Wikipedia policies and guidelines will be considered disruptive editing and can lead to a block from further editing."

::: The problem is that we have no way to know if someone is using AI to generate content as opposed to format/reword/spellcheck their own work. If an editor is continuously adding slop or hallucinated info to articles, we can treat it like any other form of disruptive editing. It's just one more thing we need to be conscious of when checking new edits. Unfortunately, it's a tricky one to spot. One of the telltale signs (like on [[Lore:Altmer]]) is the addition of massive amounts of well-written prose, often containing misinformation or poor/inaccurate citation. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:13, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::: Fully on board to ban it. Even if it can be hard to tell sometimes, it should be fully purged when detected. And when we have proof of a user using it (such as admitting to it) action should be taken. Removal of the AI generated prose and the usual warning into action system the UESP admins take would sound fair to me. Furthermore though, whilst I know we currently know of at least one user using AI generation, retroactive action should not be taken against them. Only if it continues. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:29, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I disagree, not because I think AI usage is good, but I think we already have policies in place that police the bad behavior that AI causes. We have rules against blatantly false information in articles, like AI hallucinations. We have standards of grammar and spelling. We have standards that articles should be easily comprehensible. I just don't see how "AI is now banned" is really useful in any way, when all of the things that AI does poorly are already covered by existing policy. However, but banning it, we run into problems with assuming good faith, when one person claims another user is using AI and the other user claims they aren't. How do you PROVE they are using AI, or are just bad/inserting headcanon into articles (which is, again, already against our policies). This is a situation where it seems like a good policy, but then doesn't really have any impact at all. We shouldn't be adding policies just to make ourselves feel like we are doing something. There just isn't a real problem here. One user used AI but we've already been dealing with it under existing policies. If that user continues to use AI (or otherwise add in blatantly false information), there are ways to deal with that, up to and including blocking that user from the wiki for repeatedly adding false information to the wiki.

:::::I just don't see what the problem is that this policy is trying to solve. We just don't have a rash of AI edits that wouldn't otherwise be not okay under existing policies... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:50, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::A first step will be to officially declare our policy to be against it so no one unknowingly somehow thinks it's a good idea. Beyond that, we should indeed want to err on the side of inaction. We don't want to witch hunt AI text or erroneously accuse people of it just because they like em dashes or something. But yeah, if they admit it, if they have no defense for bad info, etc., I'm all for removing any such edits with a sledgehammer.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:04, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I'm more in line with the views of Jeancy and Legoless here. There is very little we can do to know that it is generated content and also remain true to assume good faith. I personally also think that soon this kind of generation will be indistinguishable from human writing and any policy will be impossible to police. I know it's not a very popular opinion but AI is here, it's not going away, and it's only going to get better faster than anyone is ready for. The only path forward from my point of view is a path that outlines the responsible integration of human assisted AI generated material and not outright bans. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 19:00, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I also think banning it outright is impractical since it's not really enforceable. While articles ideally shouldn't include AI generated content (not just lore articles, any articles), I think Wikipedia's (draft) policy is still enough, as it already covers the core issues - biased, not verifiable, poor quality, inaccurate - and we don't really need to say any more than that. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:32, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::I agree with Legoless that we should largely use Wikipedia's policy. Regardless of how enforceable the policy is, we definitely need a formal rule against AI writing so that we can ensure that it is not encouraged from here on out, and so that we can remove any writing confirmed to be AI-written instead of having to keep proofreading and editing it into something salvageable. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Verified Creation Psuedospace Consolidation and potential Namespace ==

As previously discussed [[Project:Community Portal/Archive 60#Change to Verified Creation Namespace Initials|here]], there had been talks to change up the naming system for Verified Creations. It looks like we previously settled on just doing three letter prefixes, as seen with Blood and Snow (ie. a file named [[:File:BaS-npc-Rakoslod.png|BaS-npc-Rakoslod]]). However, an issue with this is that there's now a lot more Verified Creations than there were before, so much so that they're getting pumped out at a faster rate than we can come up with Psuedospaces for them. Another issue is that its hard to find these images in one place, as they all start with different prefixes. Its dysfunctional for each mod to get its own prefix when the Skyrim DLCs don't even have that any more. I propose we add VC5 in front of each of these photos so that they can more easily be searched up. They can keep the psuedospace prefix as well if desired, such as the aforementioned file which would be renamed to <code>VC5-BaS-npc-Rakoslod</code>, but going forward we would no longer have to invent and decide on a psuedospace suffix for every new VC (ie. if there's a Verified Creation that's very small in content we could just name the file "VC5-npc-Gary" if we feel like that's all it requires and call it a day, instead of the ''need'' to invent a new prefix). We would only have to come up with new psuedospaces if we find that a VC is big enough to benefit from one.

The current tally of VCs per year (8 in 2023, 50 in 2024, and 100 in 2025 so far) comes out to roughly 158 VCs total since the program launched. Each VC has different content, but they are all tied together by being part of the Verified Creator Program. Do we also want to give Verified Creations their own namespace, similar to Better Cities and Tamriel Rebuilt? Or do we just want to keep them in Skyrim Modspace? [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 23:56, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

:I think a proper Skyrim Verified Creations space would be a good way to corral them all. One downside to using multiple prefixes that I would anticipate is that a lot of files are going to be incorrectly named. Having them in one place to verify will be helpful. Additionally, seeing as how there are 100+ this year alone, agreeing on psuedospace prefixes is going to become tedious at best or simply ignored without any consensus. I'm not saying I am opposed to pseudospace prefixes; they will be great to help identify what VC they belong to. I think we should get an official consensus here on how to name them going forward so that the process is avoided. Something like use the first 3 letters of each word in the name and if there are not 3 words then some alternative solution. The same goes for what happens if multiple would have the same prefix. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 01:21, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::Given the sheer volume we're dealing with, it will quickly become hard to find unique 3-letter prefixes that actually represent the creation in question (as opposed to simply assigning random codes). Best to reserve them for the larger ones.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Regarding pseudospaces in general, that was agreed during the creation of the Modspace Project to be all or nothing to ensure consistency; i.e. all mods get pseudospaces, or none do, otherwise we have double standards. (My preference would still be for none, but the consensus in the previous discussion was for all.) For as long as VC5 stays in SRMod, I think that consistency needs to remain, but if VC5 had its own namespace, then we could theoretically define a separate standard for that namespace.

:::On file prefixes specifically, which are related but separate to psuedospaces, I would suggest the same thing I suggested last time - VC5 and three additional characters. That removes any potential conflict with future releases and gives us over 17500 unique IDs. But that doesn't mean every pseudospace has to have a prefix anyway. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:12, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::On a somewhat related note, I think we're violating the spirit of modspace anyway by having so many red links and landing pages for all these VCs without actually documenting any of the content. We're a wiki, not a database - we don't need to be duplicating all the description pages that already exist on BethNet, we need to be detailing the content and gameplay, otherwise there's no point. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:22, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Being incomplete violates nothing. But yes, I think I get what you mean to say. We want more content like [[Skyrim Mod:Spelltome Craft|Spelltome Craft]] and less that is either absent or a stub that has no unique info of great merit. That said, the list itself is of great use to many since Bethesda's own ways to list the program's offerings are ... lacking.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{Edit Conflict}} I'm neutral on keeping psuedospaces, just as long VC5 is used to start all file names that would be the most important thing. The psuedospaces add a small benefit of making them easier to categorize so as long as we don't make them a requirement and more of an optional thing, they could work. As for the pages themselves, we shouldn't be duplicating descriptions and just leaving the pages like that, they definitely need editing and to have at bare minimum intros added to them. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 21:49, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::The [[UESPWiki:Mod|Modspace Guidelines]] literally say that we're supposed to document content, not delivery. If the above number is accurate, we have documented delivery of some 150 mods, while we only have details of content for about 20. Meanwhile, 92 are redlinks and don't even have their own pages. At what point would it be considered a violation of those guidelines? They certainly aren't "content-focused" at the moment if less than 15% of the documentation actually includes any content. Anything we're documenting should at least have a landing page like [[Skyrim Mod:SWIFT|SWIFT]], [[Skyrim Mod:The Forgotten City|The Forgotten City]], [[Skyrim Mod:ESO Imports|ESO Imports]] or [[Skyrim Mod:Wyrmstooth|Wyrmstooth]].

::::::Note that I'm only arguing for parity here - if we are now saying that it's acceptable for less than 15% of modspace to actually include documentation of mods' content and for more than 50% of mods listed to not even have their own articles, we'll rewrite the guidelines to that effect and continue creating a list of redlinks for free mods as well (which someone has already been doing), even if we never expect them to have any content documentation. Alternatively, if we follow the guidelines as intended, any redlinks on both lists should be deleted until such a time as someone actually starts documenting that mod. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 00:42, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Never. We have a drastically different interpretation of those guidelines. Nothing I see there even begins to suggest deleting redlinks to make site content even less complete. And again, even if much of the page is redlinks we merely hope will be fleshed out in time, that alone has frequently proven to be extremely useful and popular. Someone with access to view numbers can help provide data here if desired. Further, these redlinks have successfully proved to be helpful prompts for others to build the associated pages, especially since the list is semi protected. So perhaps those guidelines should be addended in such a way that reiterates our more clearly stated policy that perfection is not required and the fundamentally iterative nature of the site as a whole.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:56, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Agreed. Primarily it's the "Completing Articles" guideline that is the issue here, and I would be very happy to take that out and/or completely reword it to encourage iterative improvement over time, rather than suggesting that we ideally need to plan out a complete article from the start to avoid indefinite stubs. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:38, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

== Please undelete this page: Lore:Fascist ==

I'm [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides]]. I lost my password in a recent incident involving my password manager, leaving me logged out of my account. This is not the reason I am making this post. I noticed a mistaken deletion of a page, Lore:Fascist, within 18 hours of creation. This was not in line with the 7 days required under the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Policy]] for proposed deletion. This isn't just a deletion — this is an unexplained removal of information from UESP wiki. I hope we can fix this error by undeleting [[Lore:Fascist]] as soon as possible. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 11:07, 13 August 2025 (UTC)
:Administrators are allowed to delete pages before the typical 7 days if they feel the page is vandalism, nonsense, or similar, so I believe that's why it didn't stay up for the full 7 days that the Proposed Deletion tag normally requires. While the page is neither vandalism nor nonsense per se, it does feel like a forced attempt to introduce the concept of fascism where it's virtually non-existent in the game. Even when creating the page, you were only able to find a single in-universe instance of the word and one out-of-universe example. That's not really worth creating a Lore page for in my opinion.

:If you feel like you can flesh it out to the point where it might merit becoming a Lore page, I'm willing to restore it and move it to a subpage of your User page, but that's about as much as I'd be willing to do, personally. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

:: As I explained [[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides#Lore:Fascist|here]], the deleted article contained little of substance, and your previous account's edits seem more like an attempt to insert real-world political science into articles than a genuine effort to document fascism in TES lore. Another seven days would not have improved the case to retain such a page. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

::: RobinHood70, I appreciate your offer. While I revise the page — incorporating feedback to build consensus — I’d be glad for you to move and subpage Lore:Fascist as needed. Consensus matters to me, which is why I’m disappointed by the push to shut down discussion that could have occurred over those seven days. It’s odd — and counter to wiki principles — to assume no one might weigh in during that time. These discussions should have happened on [[Lore talk:Fascist]]. Nonetheless, I understand that editors feel that Lore:Fascist might have too little content. I hope to rework it into a larger, broader, subject page once it is restored and undeleted. Thank you. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 07:05, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::My issue is that it would be hard to even turn into a large page without speculation or overly relying on real-world comparisons. I think the page could exist only if it was a tiny stub given its only mentioned once. And at most maybe applies to a group through dev comments. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 13:23, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Agreed. I don't know what the content of the page was, but I don't see how a lore page can be created based on a single throwaway line of dialogue from a single quest that you can only hear with a certain disposition value. The whole point of a lore page is to explain a concept, and there is nothing here to generate a concept which can then be explained. If the NPC had instead said ''"That welxist pig killed those people"'', would we create a Lore:Welxist page, despite knowing nothing of that concept beyond that single line? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:37, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Yeah I don't see much in the way of value being added by restoring this page. Keep it deleted. This is a real-world topic that can easily be justified as being a direct English translation for our sake as the player, rather than an actual term in-lore and in Tamrielic languages as a concept. Without any other content to cover, this page serves little purpose except to act as a potential lightning rod for controversy and edit wars. [[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 15:38, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I concur that the page should have been deleted. We could have started a talk page about it, but the discussion on it would likely go the same way this portal post is going right now. While I'm not inherently against the concept of a page about fascism, the fact that there's so little info on fascism (or political ideologies in general) within TES means that there's no way to write an actual article about it without massive amounts of speculation and connecting the dots with stuff that is subjectively fascist. Its like creating "Lore:Genetics" based on a few mentions of geneology; irl concepts like biology don't necessarily fit as a main backdrop in TES. If there was more info from the games on it, then I might have been on board, but since there isn't we don't really have any option but to have deleted that page. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:14, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} I also agree that it was right to delete the page, but in the interests of offering Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II a chance to prove it can be brought up to Lore page standards, I've restored it to [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II/Fascist|a sandbox]]. I'm using [[Lore:Sex]] as a guideline here. I was extremely sceptical of that page when it was first created, but it's become more than I ever would have imagined, so I think it's only fair to give the same breadth to this topic. That said, I urge any editors working on it to be very careful with what content they add to it. I can see the potential for the topic to go south very quickly, and if it does, I imagine it'll be summarily deleted again. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:58, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: This content has effectively been restored by placing it on [[Lore:Government]] and turning [[Lore:Fascist]] into a redirect. I have proposed the article for deletion as it doesn't address any of the concerns raised above and remains a speculative shoehorning. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

::I think a potential page on Government has some merit, but the section of fascism specifically doesn't, especially in its current form. There's nothing in TES suggesting that the one source was referring to a form of fascist government existing in the Empire, if you look at the real world definition of fascism it is a poor fit. But the word "fascist" has multiple definitions. As the edit in question can't escape, there isn't even an establishment of a relation to government without bringing in real world information, instead relying on the fact that the word was used as an insult once as the entire basis of its presence there. If you look at the [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism dictionary definition] "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control" makes a lot more sense in the context then the primary meaning "a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition".

::A fully developed page on Government in TES could possibly mention the single usage of the word fascist in a note section, but I think that's the extent of it that would be appropriate considering existing sources. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 11:39, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

== Mod Copyright Templates ==

While looking at some recent uploads I came to the thought that our current set of copyright templates don't seem to cover mods very well. It's very probable that a mod author doesn't want their creations just under creative commons, and mod elements also for the most part incorporate or are entirely based off of existing Elder scrolls content so it should most likely mention that it is still property of Bethesda. With that in mind we probably need licensing templates of some sort for mod projects. It'll allow us to fill in in case a mod author is declaring copyright on their mod.

One case that this would cover for example is the [[Beyond Skyrim:Concept Art|Beyond Skyrim concept arts]], which from what I can see are being uploaded under CC2.5 but are marked as being under [https://beyondskyrim.org/project/elsweyr copyright by Beyond Skyrim on their own website]. It'd be an improvement for us to say those images are copyright of Beyond Skyrim I believe, and I'm sure there are other examples like this on UESP.

Bringing this up here in case there are other gaps in the copyright templates that I haven't thought up that would deserve consideration. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 03:54, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: Sometimes I'm asked by mod authors to upload images for Verified Creator Program releases before they're publicly published on Bethesda's site. So the license choice of it being an image from a Bethesda web site is not yet accurate and I just leave it blank because the option you just described is missing.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:05, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For Eve's specific example of being asked to upload images by the author, I think that's just {{tl|Usedwithpermission}}, or a variation of it. For other mod images, I think we may want to distinguish between in-game screenshots taken by UESP editors, and images created directly by the mod author, as we do everywhere else. For images created by the author, we probably want a Fair Use variant which says something like:
:: ''This image was taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod, the copyright of which is held by the mod author(s). The use of such images is believed to fall under the fair dealing clause of Canadian copyright law.''
:: For screenshots, we probably want something like:
:: ''This image was created for use on UESP using components taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod. The copyright for the components is held by the mod author(s), while the copyright for this particular composition is held by UESP. It is available for use under the same Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License as our text content.''
:: We can add into that whatever extra info about Zenimax/Bethesda if necessary, but at the same time I don't want to conflate ownership, as Zeni/Beth only own the base game, not the unique composition created by the mod author. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:08, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

::: Thanks. I see that under the "Other" section and will use that in such cases going forward.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

== Grammar Concerns ==
I recently added an official mod summary to the [[Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]] page that had a grammar error. Immediately recognizing the error, I used the sic template to note that the text appeared as the author typed it and should not be corrected until and unless the official summary itself gets fixed. This was simple. This was routine. This was not expected to be controversial. However, another editor removed the template insisting that the incorrect grammar was actually correct. An edit war ensued where they misquoted grammar rules. It then went to the page's talk page where it got little attention. Then I gave up and left it without the template. Similar happened not long after, though, when I added needed images to [[SI:Grakendo Udico]]. This put the page on my watchlist, so I noticed when its correct grammar was changed to be incorrect. This started another edit war with the same user. Worse, an apparent intent to cascade the error everywhere was presented when [[SI:The Fringe]] (also on my watchlist from a previous edit) was also updated by the same user to make the same change from correct grammar to incorrect grammar. I then raised the issue on our Discord in hopes of additional voices of reason helping to correct the user's understanding of English grammar rules [[https://discord.com/channels/261544750044282883/261887896930353155/1407950822196903959]]. Unfortunately, the result was not only far from what I hoped it would be but instead prompted such grave concerns that this portal post is merited. We, of course, honor intentional style choices made in the official material. We also recognize errors where they exist. We should not insist that errors are official style choices, even if they are common or frequent. We should not presume intent. Given the lack of an official declaration that the grammar error is intentional, the basic rules of English grammar should apply. I also hoped this point would not be controversial. It was. The arguments (which I frankly find preposterous) were instead made that "English has no hard rules", that "Proper names include things like pubs or newspaper publications, not geographic regions like the Fringe", and that we should intentionally propagate some assumed concept of Bethesda grammar as if it were an intentional choice rather than an obvious error to anyone sufficiently familiar with English grammar rules or referencing any widely accepted English style guide. In conclusion, the specific examples (a comma between verbs of a compound predicate, capitalization of articles in proper place names) need as definitive an affirmation as we can reasonably get. I don't think our own style guides require any modification as the suggested corrections simply bring the language in line with accepted norms; I should hope people don't need to be told to use sense and recognize an error as an error rather than thinking that just because Bethesda made an error that we should then make that same error wherever possible. Whether anyone then chooses to hunt down similar examples throughout UESP for the sake of instant consistency is up to them. I merely seek to correct the cases in point to serve as precedent and hope that this will result in correct usage gradually being applied as relevant pages are edited anyway.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 08:26, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: A few points:

: 1. '''Incorrect grammar''': This has been discussed at length before, but capitalising the definite article is only required when it forms part of a proper title. So, The New York Times or the [[Oblivion:The Merchants Inn|The Merchants Inn]], but not the Fringe or the Reach. Compare [[wikipedia:The Pale|the Pale]] (or even [[wikipedia:The Bahamas|the Bahamas]], supposedly an exception). Regarding the sic template, as I have [[Skyrim_Mod_talk:Verified_Creator_Program#Sic_Misuse|repeatedly pointed out]], the comma usage here is a (poor) stylistic choice and not a grammar error.

: 2. '''Inconsistency with source material''': The in-game dialogue and journal entries on both [[SI:Grakendo Udico]] and [[SI:The Fringe]] disagree with you. Both refer to "the Fringe" in prose, and UESP's capitalisation is inconsistent with that. As a general guideline, our [[UESPWiki:Spelling|spelling and capitalisation guide]] tends to follow what is seen in-game. If it was treated as "The Fringe" in ''Oblivion'', maybe you would have a case to disregard normal grammar rules for geographic place names. Alas, this is not so.

: 3. '''Consensus''': The sic removal did not get "little attention", it received a comment from one additional user who opposed the overzealous use of a sic tag. From looking at the discussion on Discord regarding the Fringe capitalisation, three additional users attempted to correct you on current consensus and accepted grammar for this and similar cases. Yours is clearly the minority position here, i.e. to ignore precedent, in-game spelling, real world grammar rules, and site-wide consistency in the pursuit of carving out "The Fringe" as an exception to the rule.

: There is nothing wrong with [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Be bold|being bold]] and reverting what you perceive as a mistaken edit. However, these cases to me seem like an inability to accept correction. Having a 3-hour-long Discord discussion about it followed by a Community Portal post is unnecessarily disruptive to what should have been a minor grammar improvement. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:02, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::Ultimately this change will require us marking upwards of thousands of instances of things like "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", and so on as sics. This goes against UESP's existing style guide, in relation to the text on [[UESPWiki:Spelling]] in particular: ''"The Elder Scrolls games use many unique words and names. The spelling of all Elder Scrolls words should match the spelling used in the game, even if that differs from the common English spelling."''

::This would also fall astray from the Manual of Style of Wikipedia, with us commonly referencing Wikipedia in gaps in our own coverage as a possible source. In relation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Capitalization_of_The MOS: CAPS Capitalization of The], I reference: ''"Do not ordinarily capitalize the definite article after the first word of a sentence; however, some idiomatic expressions, including the titles of artistic and academic works, should be quoted exactly, according to common usage."''

::This, when applied to our current practice, has us doing it correctly by following common usage.

::With both UESP's own style guide supporting our current position, and the Wikipedia MOS supporting it as well I would move onto one final point for why we shouldn't. This would cause extreme confusion among our readers seeing the extra thousand plus sics this would create, and would cause more fighting over sics then exists currently. It would both require a considerable amount of editor effort to make things consistent to this new standard, while only causing what I would perceive as a degradation of the quality of our content to the average user due to the increased confusion this would cause. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 09:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::: No one is saying "the" should always be capitalized. The rule is that it is capitalized when it is part of the name itself. The advocated behavior here is to adhere to the rule, which itself applies to exceptional names that include the article as part of the name, NOT to do something that is itself an exception to the rules in general. This "inability to accept correction" accusation works both ways. You may wish to avoid additional personal attacks and threats and try to address the actual issue at hand. And no one is questioning spelling. I don't know why spelling keeps being brought up. The cases in point are a comma and a capital T, not spelling. This is not a matter of opinion. People yelling loudly, repeatedly, and even vulgarly that their way is the right way without any relevant or credible citation is an abusive attempt at bullying, not a valid counter to the credible sources provided via Discord ([[https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/punctuation/commas/extended_rules_for_commas.html]] [[https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html]]). The argument that being correct is too hard is also absurd. Firstly, what's right is what matters—and what's right is often not what's easy. Secondly, to repeat, this does not need to be effected immediately sitewide; we simply need to set the record straight on what's right and what's wrong here to prevent the people that do make the edits—when and if they choose to do so—from undoing each other's work. The UESP style guide says nothing about the specific issues, leaving any reasonable person to understand that normal and basic grammar rules prevail. Wikipedia's current cited example of "the Bahamas" is an error. It's easy to find errors like this. That still does not make them right. Find credible and accepted direction that contradicts the credible and accepted direction already linked above, if you can, not additional examples of common error.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 10:05, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::: Eve, at this point the only person insisting their way is the sole correct one—against all style guides, in-game usage, and community consensus—is you. The Fringe is not the name of a country. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:54, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Quick summary for the rest of the community, because for a section titled "Grammar concerns", OP's content focused on how the alleged errors have been mis/handled without specifying the actual errors themselves; also, for everyone who can't be bothered to look up diffs and/or people like me who are not on Discord.

{|class="wikitable"
!Page and revision!!Text!!OP's edits
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3402135|Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]]
|Will you save her from the Forsworn, and help her write your epic?
|Will you save her from the {{sic|Forsworn,|Forsworn}} and help her write your epic?
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3405307|Shivering:Grakendo Udico]]
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|the Fringe]], she will be...
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]], she will be...
|-
|[[Shivering:The Fringe]]
|colspan=2|(What was the update "by the same user ... to incorrect grammar"?)
|}
And now that everybody else is on the same page about "a comma and a capital T", here's my two cents.

The first one seems to be just an Oxford comma on verb phrases. A stylistic choice perhaps, but not necessarily a grammatical error, let alone one that warrants a {{tl|Sic}}.

For the second one, I agree that the excerpt quoted by AKB above from [[UESPWiki:Spelling#General]] actually does apply to spelling, not capitalization. The relevant part is further down in [[UESPWiki:Spelling#Proper Names]]: ''"...cases where proper names begin with a definite (e.g. the) or indefinite (e.g. a, an) article. The article should be preserved if the proper name is used as a standalone noun and omitted if used as a modifier for some other noun..."''.

Thus, I don't see any problem with "When you arrive at The Fringe". As a matter of fact, in the page for [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]] itself, the description for many [[Shivering:The Fringe#Places within The Fringe|related places]] refer to it as "The Fringe". The intro blurb also mentions "The Shivering Isles" and "The Gatekeeper". So... I'm not sure I understand correctly what AKB refers to as "common usage" above (not throwing shade, I legit don't because I don't edit in the [[OB:Oblivion|OB]] and [[SI:Shivering Isles|SI]] namespaces much).

However, it is very important to note that in-game mentions of "the Fringe" do not constitute a grammatical error either. There isn't, and there shouldn't be, any call to add sitewide sics to "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", etc. especially when they're quoted from in-game dialogue or journal entries. I think we can recognize it's a slippery slope fallacy and that it should not be taken as support or opposition to either approach.

Lastly, from [[UESPWiki:Style Guide#Language]], ''"...capitalization follows standard English rules, {{Hover|emphasis mine|'''except'''}} in cases where a proper name or title comes from an Elder Scrolls game, in which case the game capitalization is kept. More specifics on spelling and capitalization, and clarification on in-game spelling variations, are provided at [[UESPWiki:Spelling|Spelling]]''. So... please understand why "spelling keeps being brought up".

TLDR: I believe (1) Oxford comma okay, no sic; and (2) "The Fringe" okay but "the Fringe" also okay if quoting in-game content. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 11:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: To me, the examples on [[Shivering:The Fringe]] speak to the lower quality of those older SI pages compared to the rest of the site. It is most definitely "[[Shivering:Haskill#Quest-Related_Events|the Gatekeeper]]" in all contexts. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Thank you, Salamangkero. The quoted examples, citation of our own policy confirming that the "definite ... article should be preserved", and citation of our policy confirming that our text "follows standard English rules" are all very helpful. Regarding the third example, I see now I have an error in my original post. It was actually the page "Retaking The Fringe", not just "The Fringe". It was effectively the same as the second edit, though. Beyond that, as per the rule cited by the same user themselves ([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma]]), the comma does not fit the definition as the definition requires the list to consist of at least THREE terms—not two. I also concur that citing examples of it being done the way one person considers right or wrong or vice versa is not particularly helpful—hence encouraging us to look at style guides that actually intend to prescribe correct usage. Also, regarding sic usage in general, it's my understanding that this applies ONLY when we're quoting anyway. Otherwise, the error should simply be corrected, not preserved (with or without annotation). As for our Gatekeeper friend, I don't know for certain if "The" is part of his name or not off the top of my head. I suspect it's not, so a lowercase "the" would be good here. The list of exceptions that actually include the article as part of the proper name is likely a very short list, all of which have probably already been mentioned just now in this section.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:36, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
:: And while I question if it's better to ignore such a crude comment, I'll respond for the record. "against all style guides": No, I'm advocating what every single style guide cited says to do; you're the one that keeps insisting otherwise with zero style guides backing up the approach. "against ... in-game usage": Some of it. It's inconsistent. And being in the game doesn't make it right. Hence the existence of the sic template in the first place. "against ... community consensus": I posted this hours ago, and we most definitely have not reached a consensus. "The Fringe is not the name of a country.": I agree. Also, no one said it was. Nor does it need to be. Any type of proper name that starts with an article counts.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I was not aware the Oxford comma had a 3-terms-and-above restriction. I learned something new today; thank you for that. I also offer an alternative: instead of a list of verb phrases like I initially claimed, consider it instead as [https://www.grammarly.com/blog/punctuation-capitalization/comma-before-and/#1 two independent clauses].

:::Point taken re: the examples being of lower quality / older. So I did a quick scan of [[UESPWiki:Featured_Articles/Old_FAs|Featured Articles]]:
:::*[[ON:Molag Bal]] mentions ''"...during [[ON:The Watcher in the Walls|The Watcher in the Walls]], [[ON:The Rat|The Rat]] informs you that..."'' and ''"...you are transported to [[ON:The Colored Rooms|The Colored Rooms]]."''
:::*[[SR:Serana]] has dialogue ''"When in The Reach"'' and ''"When in The Rift"''
:::*[[Lore:War of Betony]] mentions ''"...from Camaron's chief advisor [[Lore:The Oracle|The Oracle]], who reportedly..."''
:::*[[SR:Fishing_(activity)]] lists places ''"...east of the passage from [[SR:The Rift|The Rift]]."'', ''"...in front of [[SR:The Mortar and Pestle|The Mortar and Pestle]] and...'', ''"...next to the entrance to [[SR:The Warrens|The Warrens]]."'' and ''"Travel to [[SR:The Guardian Stones|The Guardian Stones]]..."''

:::The argument could be made that these are isolated errors; maybe, maybe not. However, I do think the current wording of the wiki's style guide leans towards preserving the capital "T" for in-game content that actually have "The" in their names. I believe, in the past, contributors have encountered dialogue / journal entries where a lowercase "t" was used to refer to "the Thing" and taken that as the norm. I think, over time, other contributors also followed suit until it became a de facto style, which is why arguments that appeal to "precedent" and "site-wide consistency" are brought up. However, [[UESPWiki:Consensus#When Consensus is Needed|Consensus]] guidelines specifically warns against ''fait accompli'' and I feel that using "community consensus" to shoot down attempts to clarify consensus is a bit underhanded.

:::However, the same [[UESPWiki:Consensus#Reaching Consensus|Consensus]] guidelines also recommends we ''"respect the wiki guidelines about civility"'' and ''"focus on the issue being discussed"''. I think it's obvious everyone views the comma and/or the capital T as completely trivial issues. Given that, everyone also expects a quick resolution then feels understandably frustrated when the discussion gets "unnecessarily" prolonged. People begin feeling aggravated, misunderstood or unheard; they may lash out, insinuating a misunderstanding of guidelines, an inability to accept feedback or just plain stubbornness. People become defensive, take things personally, create strawman arguments and respond to quotes taken out of context.

:::Might I suggest taking a breather and letting go of the need to reach (or enforce) a consensus "right here, right now"? Maybe 24 hours or even a couple of days? There might be some benefit if other contributors, who might be less emotionally-invested, could be given time to bring something new to the table. Perhaps the other participants in said Discord might also share their reasoning here?

:::I, too, would love for this to be uncontroversial but that boat has already sailed. For a supposedly trivial concern, the stakeholders have pretty strong feelings on what is right or wrong. We're here now; might as well use this space to have a civil discussion with the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 13:55, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you again. Well said. Treating it as two independent clauses doesn't work, though, since the second clause relies on the "Will you" at the beginning (and is thus dependent). Otherwise, the meaning would get changed into asking a question and then issuing a command which seems very unlikely to be the author's intent.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 14:38, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Our primary motivating factor is what the games do. By and large, such instances in the games has a lower case letter for the definite article when used in the middle of the sentence. In similar cases on wikipedia, they have also settled on the lowercase t for such instances, see for example [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters/Archive_34#Capitalization_of_The|this discussion on the Bahamas]]. English has no hard and fast rule on this, and many if not most American English speakers learned growing up to NOT capitalize the t in a definite article in the middle of a sentence except in very specific circumstances, and place names are not one of those circumstances. It doesn't really matter what the various manuals of style say to do, because we do not follow any specific manual of styles, we just copy what the game devs have decided to do, and the vast majority of time, they do not capitalize the t. This holds true in games from Morrowind all through to ESO (I don't have access to the text files for games before that).

To quote one of the commenters from that Wikipedia discussion:

''"And we've had this debate many times before about many things, such as various company names, a lot of universities, etc., and the end result is always the same: WP uses "the" because most sources do. See also MOS:TM and WP:OFFICIALNAME; WP really doesn't care about the preferences of particular publishers or other entities, nor for "officialness" of some particular style choice. WP is not written in officialese."''

In this case, "most sources" for us are the games. And saying that the thousands of times they have made this choice in games across multiple decades is somehow a "common error" vastly misstates the sheer number of instances. In ESO alone there are over 1400 instances of "the Reach" with that capitalization. Sicing all of them is is both unnecessary and incorrect, because the game devs have settled on a style to use, and we should follow it. Again, given the number of times that this exact sort of capitalization has come up on Wikipedia, and every single time consensus has been that common usage does NOT capitalize the t, most readers are likely to assume a capitalized t is incorrect.

TLDR: We follow the style used by the games, and the games overwhelmingly use a lowercase t in such instances. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:30, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
: I would also point out that even if we WERE using a manual of style rules, Chicago's FAQ regarding this situation effectively says lowercase t is okay if that's what the source is using:

:''"Meanwhile, the entries in Merriam-Webster list “Gambia or the Gambia” and “Bahamas or the Bahamas or The Bahamas”—suggesting not only that usage varies but that a lowercase t may be more common when the article is used with either name. And though an editor applying Chicago style would ordinarily defer to Merriam-Webster (and choose lowercase), you can cite Britannica if your preference is for The Gambia. Just be sure to switch to lowercase when the article belongs to the surrounding text, as in “the Gambia River” or “the Gambian coast.”''
:(from [https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html here])

:Standard English grammar does not capitalize these situations generally and it would be wrong to mark them as sic for making a choice to not capitalize them. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:43, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Dictionaries are inherently NOT prescriptive or instructive. They document how people use language, not how it should be used. So of course they are going to note that it appears with and without a capital. They are frequently asked what the "right" way of writing something is and invariably respond that they only keep track of what people do, never judging what is best but merely helping people understand what others mean.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I would just suggest that both be acceptable, and therefore neither should be changed. Stats for ESO are already mentioned; in Skyrim, there are 52 instances of the Pale and the Rift being mentioned mid-sentence, and only 12 of The Pale and The Rift. This shows that 20% of the time, someone made a concerted effort to actively capitalise it, but by the same token, 80% of the time they didn't bother. As for the Reach, that appears over 100 times, while The Reach is only capitalised 3 times. CSList for Oblivion isn't working so I can't check the Fringe.
:::When it comes to sic and commas, I don't really think it's worth sic'ing punctuation at all, apart from apostrophes. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't see why a sic wouldn't be appropriate in the case punctuation is unambiguously wrong, such as a question ending in a period rather than a question mark. In the particular case of the Verified Creator Program, I do think Eve's edit is correct, but I do not know for sure that the original is unambiguously incorrect, so I shall remain neutral on that. But in general, I would support sic tags being used on any punctuation *errors*. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 21:25, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Correct placement of commas is subject to more 'grey areas' than just about any other aspect of punctuation. Deciding what is 'correct' (as opposed to purely stylistic choice) in many instances comes down to subtle distinctions of emphasis and intent. In the example under discussion, I would argue it depends on whether you consider "save her from the Forsworn" and "help her write your epic" as two distinct actions (ie "Will you save her from the Forsworn, ''and will you'' help her write your epic?") or just one ("Will you save her from the Forsworn ''while simultaneously'' helping her write your epic?"). Not having played the Creation in question, I would suggest the former is more likely, but neither are technically incorrect.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:35, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: The case in point for "The Fringe" is prose written by UESP users. There's nothing to sic. It's just a matter of being consistent in the text we do fully control. As for whether it's "worth" marking official text as erroneous on account of this, no one is demanding every such instance be immediately marked as such. I just want users to be able to acknowledge that it's not called Fringe. It's called The Fringe. And when users indicate this with a capital T, I don't want them to be fought on it. And I certainly don't want correct instances of a capital T changed to incorrect instances of a lowercase T as was the case here. Even if either were perfectly fine, then that change is unjustified anyway. The point is also well made that some number of people at Bethesda very clearly made an active effort to properly capitalize it. I'd say the more obvious distinction is that we have zero examples of it being referred to as simply "Fringe." It's always THE Fringe (except one "My Fringe" from Sheogorath being goofy and alluding to himself effectively being the realm itself that no one actually asserts should be an example of anything—but which nevertheless capitalizes "My," albeit possibly for a different reason anyway). And even if we were to mistake reference materials that merely chronicle usage both capitalizing the article and not as endorsement of both being proper, the one with the capitalization presents greater clarity of the actual place name whereas the other approach seeks to intentionally maintain unnecessary vagueness. As for the comma, the fact that the attempt to justify multiple intended meanings requires actually changing the phrasing to make it sound normal says a lot. If the words "will you" were repeated, then the comma would indeed be just fine. But they're not. And that's why it's an issue. There are no interpretations of the meaning that make the current comma and words valid. I feel much of the commentary stems from fear of needing to do a lot more work or fear of one's existing work looking lesser in some way. That's not how this works. Once we acknowledge what is ideal, no one is required to hunt down every instance of anything that falls short. Anything containing such an instance is not rendered any more incomplete than anything else on the wiki. The entire site is an eternal work in progress. Just don't change the right way to the wrong way when and where someone actually does care enough to get it right.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 06:44, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::No-one is suggesting that the location is called "Fringe". What they are arguing is that "the Fringe" and "The Fringe" are both equally correct. As for the comma, I was not "changing the phrase to make it sound normal", I was merely illustrating that there are different ways of interpreting the meaning, which affect whether the comma is appropriate. Or are you suggesting that the second interpretation is the only possible one? You seem to regard neither style guides nor dictionaries nor common usage as valid counter-evidence to the position you regard as 'objectively' correct, but I'm unclear how you arrived at this position. In any case, when it comes to proper nouns, the position of the 'owner' of the noun (in this case the devs) takes precedence. That's why there's a movie called ''Inglourious Basterds'', not ''Inglorious Bastards''. Now can we move on from a topic that really should not have provoked this much controversy?--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:07, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I'm stating that no matter how the sentence is interpreted, the comma is an error. You are correct that dictionaries are not regarded as evidence of how things SHOULD be—only of how they are used, whether desirable or not. As for style guides on the comma, I linked a Purdue reference affirming the comma's incorrectness. No one has linked any contrary guide. As for style guides on capitalizing The Fringe, the Chicago Manual of Style reference I linked also affirms that it "generally remains capitalized" and further attests Brittanica corroborates. I admit the last paragraph of that source is slightly confusing; however, read in full context, it refers precisely to The Gambia and The Bahamas as tolerating a lowercase "the." It explicitly states that any other region whose name starts with a definite article (such as "The") should have it capitalized, citing examples of El Salvador, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and The Hague. As for Bethesda's stance, if you can find a comment of them explicitly stating that it should be one way or the other, that would be awesome. Otherwise, again, just trying to deduce their position based on inconsistent examples is either inconclusive or outright supports capitalizing the article. And once again, absolutely no one has argued against honoring intentional spellings, which remain completely irrelevant to the cases in point.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: As an extra point of clarification, even the dictionaries agree anyway. "The Hague," for example is only listed with a capital The. It's simply that The Gambia and The Bahamas are extra exceptional in that they alone have a modicum of tolerance for a lowercase "the."[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:15, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: If tolerance is a valid consideration, Bethesda's tolerance of over 80% lower case is highly significant. As I said above, I would just suggest that both options be acceptable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 17:39, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::: How would that even work? First person to add the text gets to pick? People can endlessly change it back and forth?[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 18:13, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Yep, first person decides. For every alt spelling or grammar rule that UESP has no preference toward, consistency within the page is what matters, so whatever is on there first takes priority. Edits that change it back and forth aren't really allowed because edits are meant to be useful and changing it back and forth when the original already established something wouldn't be of substance. I think "dialogue" vs "dialog" is one of these things, where you can use either as long as the page is consitent within itself. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 18:24, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

: For whatever reason, the Spelling page actually dictates "Use 'dialog' to refer to interface elements ('dialog box', 'dismiss the inventory dialog') and 'dialogue' for character content ('the NPC's dialogue varies by player character race')." I get the idea, though. For the cases in point, I'd say they fall under the UESP "preference" to use correct grammar.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:47, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For the sake of completeness on the stats, I managed to get the Oblivion dialogue on the Fringe now that CSList is partially working again. Of 40 mid-sentence references to the Fringe, only 3 are capitalised. That's over 90% which aren't. And yes, as above; in other instances where there are two equally-acceptable styles, whichever is on the page first usually takes priority. Although I know sometimes when a lot of info is added to a page, editors may sometimes switch what's already there if that is then in the minority compared to their additions; I think that happens particularly if they've been typing out their edit elsewhere, and editing their additions would take longer than changing what's already there. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 22:17, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Dialog vs Dialogue isn't just a choice of the editor. Dialogue is specific to people speaking, dialog is to interface elements. This is specific to American English, where dialog is computer related. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:49, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Yep, after looking into it, this was [https://content1.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Spelling&diff=3116711&oldid=3047631 changed] a year ago and I last reviewed the guide before it was reduxed. A current example is Dwemer vs. Dwarven as an adjective of origin, of which either is acceptable. Thanks for the corrections on this point. Eve is correct that their Purdue reference has gone unchallenged and pending any provided counter-source, I must side with them on this and say the sic is valid. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 17:24, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

== Headers on Style Pages ==
Following from a discussion about headers on Crafting Motif Style pages in the Discord.

So, some Crafting Motif Style pages have a level 4 header on their pages under the intro paragraph where it says what weapon/armor is involved. An example of this is [[ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords|ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords]]. Some, primarily older ones, do not have that. They look like this [[ON:Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes|Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes]]. The Abah's Watch Axes example does appear to be styled more like how the in-game books look. I started doing the level 4 heads like on Voskrona Guardian Swords because I saw it on a Lore page before ([[Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style|Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style]]) as an example, though I think most, if not all, Lore Style pages have this.

So the question I have: Going forward, what should we do to fix the discrepancy?

1. Remove all the headers.

2. Keep the headers on Lore pages, but not on the Online namespace pages.

3. Keep all headers on both.

Thank you.

[[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 05:17, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:I support Option 1. The game itself doesn't have headers or bolding or anything different (other than the text being in caps) and we shouldn't be adding formatting that isn't part of the games to these pages. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:47, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::I support Option 1. Yeah, we should make it so it looks like in-game. --[[User:BixenteN7Akantor|BixenteN7Akantor]] ([[User talk:BixenteN7Akantor|talk]]) 18:41, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Option 1, although I think the bolded headings look better, we should prioritize accuracy. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 20:09, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Just adding to this, I'm noticing that some of the books (like Crafting Motif 33, above) indent the text under the headers where others don't. Unless there's any objection, I'll outdent those in addition to removing the headers whenever I run the bot job. That'll bring them into line with how they appear in game. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:02, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Option 1 makes sense. We should still keep some form of bolding to maintain readability (putting <code>;</code> in front of the chapters would easily do the job), we've never focused on perfectly replicating the books exactly how they are in-game so I don't see why we would start doing that now (see: authorship and intro notes in-game getting moved into the template on-wiki). —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 08:43, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Well, for me, it's a matter of consistency between the pages as opposed to perfectly replicating them as they are in-game. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 17:06, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Been a while. I say we pull the trigger on this for Option 1. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 23:47, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} Sorry, I completely forgot about this. The job's actually been ready to go since we first talked about it. I'm just running it now and it'll probably be done by the time I post this. Let me know if there are any issues. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:23, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
: It missed two but otherwise, everything looks good. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:05, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
::The two that it missed both had level 3 headers, which I hadn't realized were a thing, so I was only checking for level 4 headers. I should've checked the spacing after the title, though. I'm not sure how I missed that. Thanks for fixing the ones where that was an issue. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:59, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

==Class skill line pages not reflecting subclassing==
While I was adding achievement sections to the class skill line pages, I noticed that they all still say "(class skill line name) is one of three class skill lines available to (class)." Obviously, with subclassing now, these skill lines are available to everyone, and that statement kind of implies they're exclusive to that class. I've left them as is, as I didn't really know how to approach this. Any ideas are welcome, or if anyone wants to tackle this themselves, go ahead :) [[User:Sogekihei|Sogekihei]] ([[User talk:Sogekihei|talk]]) 02:00, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

: What about [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online%3ABone_Tyrant&type=revision&diff=3450557&oldid=3449649 this]? —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:11, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:: Since I didn't receive any feedback on this change, I've gone ahead and added this standard wording for each class skill line. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

== Incomplete / Unavailable mods in modspace? ==

I've stumbled upon a [[Morrowind Mod:Sixth House Reloaded|''Morrowind'' mod]] that has a decent amount of content on a decent amount of pages, which would have been hardly notable except for the fact that it is not available. Characterized as an "upcoming overhaul mod", work on the pages started on September of this year (and stalled one month after). I feel like this is problematic for the following reasons:
* Unlike mods that actually exist, there is no meaningful way for wiki contributors to create, edit or fact-check any content.
** Instead of articles vetted and improved by the community, we have one contributor's personal sandbox outside Userspace.
** Indeed, the few changes done by other editors worked on minor housekeeping as opposed to actual content.
* I don't think UESP is the appropriate venue to host a mod's full changelog or documentation.
** Nexus Mods, for example, would be a much more suitable platform for that kind of content.
* As this specific mod is still a work in progress, its pages feel more like hype or press releases rather than useful (or even usable) reference material.
** UESP is not the place for that either.

I would like to propose the deletion of the mod's pages. As an alternative, though, the pages could be moved from Modspace to Userspace. Indeed, [[Special:DoubleRedirects|a trail of redirects]] indicate that at least [[Morrowind_Mod:6HR:Creatures|one article]] might have started as a [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sandbox|sandbox page]].

However, I'm not sure if similar practices might also apply (or even be the norm) in other namespaces. Perhaps my proposals might be unfair, if there's some mitigating context I'm unaware of. Thus, I am asking for feedback from the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 19:18, 15 December 2025 (UTC)
: I agree with what you're saying. The fact that it's not available is the key thing on this one as opposed to other incomplete mods that are partially available, such as Tamriel Rebuilt. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:27, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

::Yeah I think at the time we assumed it would be out imminently. I have no problems with moving it back to Userspace until it releases. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:43, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

:::Done. Moved pages to subpages in [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sixth House Reloaded]]. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 23:23, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

==New Reference Tier Classification Specifically for the Julian LeFay Notes (Proposal)==
Hi! I wanted to suggest the creation of a new reference tier (as we have for official vs UOL) for the recently recovered TTRPG campaign notes of Julian LeFay—which were used for the creation of lore background for ''The Elder Scrolls II: Dagerfall''—and have all been published on [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefays-dd-notes The Imperial Library]. This release is the biggest batch we've ever received as a community of developer design documents, so I'm thinking we ought to treat them differently than regular UOL—especially since a great deal of the background lore in ''Dagerfall'' references the events that took place during this campaign (for example: background of Vanus Galerion, invention of Artaeum, events around Dwynnen, Baron Othrok, and the Camoran Usurper) and many blanks within that area of lore can be filled in with the contents of these notes nearly seamlessly (official canon would take presedence where it does not of course). My suggestion is that that a JLC (Julian LeFay Campaigns) tier be slotted between official and UOL in the 'reference' section of our pages.

In my mind, we would treat the contents of Julian's notes like how Nukepedia treats the Fallout Bible (which was a big document written by an official developer, and contained a plethora of developer commentary as well as design document content) -- more seriously than a UOL source but ultimately less seriously than any canon source. This would mean lorespace pages could be created about their contents (unlike strictly UOL pages), only with a header notice ([https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Asp_Faust as seen here for example]) stating extra clearly that these lorespace pages are based on a secondary source. This method would also subscribe to Todd Howard's statement on truthfulness when it comes to overall fiction of ''The Elder Scrolls'', as stated [[General:Todd Howard PAX East 2019 Interview#Game Development, Canon, and Fan Theories|here]]. However, this would and should extend only to the contents of these notes alone -- all other UOL sources would and should remain UOL.

These notes are some of Julian LeFay's only known direct designs and writings, and I think this would be a really nice way to honor his legacy as well as his contributions to the series while also not overstating their officiality. Looking forward to hearing any thoughts, questions, and suggestions in response to this proposal! Best, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 23:55, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

: To me, this is the same as any other conceptual source covered by the catch-all UOL tag. I agree it's noteworthy developer commentary, but we don't need to categorise unofficial sources into tier lists. I don't see how it's any more "canon" than other dev texts or cutting room floor design docs—foundational, yes, but the same citation rules apply. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:: I have to agree I don't agree with distinguishing UOL tiers on this way. It feels like giving preferential treatment and I feel like that's a slippery slope. Julian's works are invaluable that much is certain, but I'd feel weird with having UESP essentially say "this Dev's contributions matter more than this other Dev's" regardless of personal opinion on such. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 00:27, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: With all respect to Julian I don't know if he would have even himself considered this the same or equivalent to the finished project? Ultimately it was only released on the event of his tragic death as a nice treat for his fans. What would be the cutoff for what's DnD and whats TES? With all the DnD monsters and giants included in it seems like a line would have to be drawn somewhere if it was considered near equivalent to official lore. Absolutely I would like to see material from it cited as well tolerated UOL with regards to the gaps it fills in Daggerfall lore. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:31, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::: Well the reason I think there ''is'' a need is in this case is because I think it would be appropriate to make lorespace pages about the material, which is not standard for our UOL policy; I'm not just suggesting to add another tier to add another tier. This is also why we would put a notice alike the Fallout Bible header on such pages, because it is a secondary source. I'm not saying it should be treated as official. I wouldn't say these are "cutting room floor" in any fashion, it's far more like the extra source material from the bottom of [[Wikipedia:Iceberg theory|Hemingway's Iceberg]]—in the sense that this was the source material ''directly'' that was used to formulate the lore of ''Daggerfall''. I honestly can't think of another case where we have ever had direct access to documents of this style before, ever. So to me it feels like something at least worth having a discussion about here.

:::: I'd also note that Julian was the original series director for TES in the 1990s, he wasn't just any miscellaneous developer who ran a tabletop game in his off hours—I'd honestly relate it to an author like Tolkien authoring his many notes for the Silmarillion that weren't published until long after he had written them. Additionally I'd note that this is entirely a one-case scenario suggestion, as I said all other UOL should and would remain UOL. And again while we might not measure extratextual sources by tiers, we know Bethesda officially does. As you can read in Todd's statement on truth above, I think it would be more than fair to say the original notes used for fleshing out ''The Elder Scrolls'' after ''Arena'' ought to rate higher than a developer's forum text or post, which the UOL category is normally reserved for. Looking forward to further discussion on this! Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 00:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: Actually, I'll place a counter proposal here. If we were to keep the reference tier as UOL (which is what most seem to have a problem with above) but allow contents from the notes to be covered on individual pages in lorespace per the Fallout Bible extratextual page header style suggested above, I would be comfortable with the UOL designation. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:06, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::: What are examples of the material you think warrants the caveat? -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:08, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::: Sure. Firstly, I'd say "Caramon Drake", the lich of Castle Wightmoor that Baron Othrok faces against who is mentioned in the book ''[[Lore:The Fall of the Usurper|The Fall of the Usurper]]'' but is not named directly. Castle Wightmoor itself, which we possess a concept map of and details about, also mentioned in the book. Additionally there's the families of the Iliac Bay mentioned in the same book, but unnamed, would also be appropriate candidates. I could go on, but that gives a decent idea of what I have in mind in regards to lorespace additions. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:13, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::: Well that makes things kind of different as we actually have already made caveats like that in the past. That case by case we could name entries or articles after things that exist in canon but are only named in UOL, IE Parrapton, N'chorbal, and some rivers in ESO I believe. I don't think there needs to be some special category for this if enough people agree on the specific examples warranting it. As long as we aren't suggesting making things like pages for stuff with no basis like the character that is a DnD Firebolg.- [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:18, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::::: While those examples above are referenced in the official lore, there are others that are entirely extratextual -- the point of my suggesting the caveat header is so we can expand our coverage to these extratextual subjects. The Fallout wiki has been doing this for a very long time with specific documents of this sort, and their coverage of materials is better than ours for it.

::::::::: I agree than any materials referenced entirely not of The Elder Scrolls—like the Firebolg—should not feature anywhere outside of notes. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:26, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::: What is something that is entirely extratextual that would warrant an article wherein all the context about them was not already in the transcript? - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:32, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Sorry I'm not picking up your question exactly? Everything I'm referring to is contained in the released transcripts for the campaigns, if that answers that? I meant "extratextual" as in not currently hinted at in the official canon, so the opposite of a Caramon Drake or Castle Wightmoor (which are hinted at/referenced).

As far as extratextual items worth documenting, I would say the various lords of Summerset listed in the notes. Each of which have paragraph-sized biographies going over who they are any what their deal is. The map also tells us where they rule. I would also say a group like the Krysard would be deserving of a page. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:41, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

: Counter-counter proposal, how would folks feel about placing it in his own space instead of just in generalspace? Like how we have mods with their own special spaces (like say "Daggerfall Mod:" or "Tamriel Rebuilt:")—if fan mods deserves entirely special spaces like these, I think there's a decent argument to be made that the developer D&D game materials ought to have their own unique space as well. This keeps it out of official lorespace and also out of overcluttering generalspace—where we can both document and make lorespace-style pages for the contents. We can hyperlink relevant stuff to and from lorespace as necessary as UOL, nothing lost. Thoughts? Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 06:07, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::That seems like a good suggestion. I would be reluctant to create a new reference tier in case it gives the impression that all other UOL is given equal weight, which it isn't.-[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:58, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: I agree this seems perfectly fine. If modpages can have spaces then I see no reason why a developer's "lore bible" can't either. So for that specific proposal of a Julianspace I'm all for [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:46, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::Oh yeah we can probably give it a space in a similar manner to the books! Those have character bio pages and lists and such. Would make sense to treat it kinda like that. That way we could also just list all the characters and their bios. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 16:23, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: I think the suggestion to create a "Julianspace" to document the campaign fully is an interesting proposal. I also wouldn't be against lore page creation on the basis of this source either. Although usually disallowed for UOL-only concepts, I think an ad-hoc approach is appropriate if a case can be made for individual articles. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:29, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::In terms of naming lore articles, the Stargate Omnipedia uses an interesting method, since so many of the planets are unnamed in the show, but might get names in dev commentary or other non-canon sources. They name the article as the generic name (in this case, something like "Lich of Castle Wightmoor") and then have a redirect from the UOL name, with the first sentence listing the name as well as a note as why it isn't the article name. This would get around the issues involving using UOL names for the article title and still provide the information to the reader in the first sentence. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:35, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I would much rather we treat all UOL the same regardless of the source. That applies to how we reference it ''and'' how we document it, and in either case, there should be no tiering. Therefore if we create a separate namespace, it should be valid for any UOL concept to receive an article within that namespace, in the same way TIL doesn't differentiate between different developer's writings (they're all equally considered Obscure Texts). Although I would perhaps see this more logically as a subspace rooted on [[General:Unofficial Lore]] rather than a true separate namespace. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Wow, okay a lot to respond to here, lemme try and objectively boil down the proposals currently on the table so this can be talked out -- I'll leave my personal responses for another post. Many thanks to all above for offering their thoughts, it's massively appreciated!

*'''Tiered References Suggestion Rejected: No special reference tier for the notes, keep all references as UOL. Most everyone above seems massively against creating a new tier.'''
*'''Suggestion #1: Make a seperate space for overall coverage and making lorespace-esque pages about the notes. More people than not seem to find this potentially viable.'''
**Side Thought #1: One editor suggests this can emulate bookspace style in its coverage of the material.
**Side Thought #2: One editor thinks that this space should not exist at all unless it's going to cover all UOL, because it comes too close to a tiering this as higher than other UOL. The same editor suggest using generalspace for hosting all our coverage for this instead, rather than creating a new space.
*'''Suggestion #2: Two editors suggest that in an ad hoc exception, we allow the content of the notes to be used in regular lorespace -- but ''only'' the contents of these notes, other UOL would not be allowed coverage in lorespace in this fashion.'''
**Side Thought #3: Two editors suggest something similar, but that topics officially referenced can use generic names from the official source(s) for page titles and allow the content UOL from the notes to be covered there. However, the first editor suggested the approach of using the UOL names for page titles, as it was agreed to do with [[Lore:Parrapton]] and [[Lore:Lorais River]] (topics things that officially appear/are referenced officially).
**Side Thought #4: I introduced the above suggestion, while placing [[Template:Notice|notices]] at the top of such pages noting that the information is derived from a secondary source (as Nukepedia does for pages concerning ''Fallout Bible'' contents).
{{uns|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|04:59, 22 January 2026 (UTC)}}

:I also believe the suggestion of a "psuedo-space" or "subspace" still within General space suggested by Enodoc, which I'd maybe lean instead of a whole space but I could go either way really at this point. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 06:53, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

::Sorry, my bad. Had kind of a lot to compile there. That part has now been added above. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:14, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

:::Okay, following up on this. Personally my preference would be Suggestion #2 with Side Thought #4 tacked on, it just seems the simplest to implement and the most pleasant method of handling this overall in my mind.

:::The separate "julianspace" of Suggestion #1 would also work well enough. Though I'm afraid can't agree with Side Thought #2 about it somehow ''having'' to contain all UOL contents within the space... we do entirely have the discretion to decide things like this, there's not like a 'mathematical rule' that must be followed in order to decide how to handle our coverage here man. And really if fan things like ''Tamriel Rebuilt'' or ''Better Cities'' can have exclusive spaces, I think it's more than reasonable for a developer driven thing like this to have its own as well if we choose. In regards to shuffling it all into generalspace under subpages, I would dislike that and I think it would make it much harder for our users to discover and navigate the materials once recorded versus a unique space which would be on/off toggleable in UESP search. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:59, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

::::If it's my comment you're referring to as "Side Thought #2", the point was that there's no good reason to give one dev's UOL preferential treatment over any other, which was the exact same reason people opposed a separate reference tier. If it is theoretically viable for a separate namespace to be created for one dev's UOL, then it stands to reason that any dev's UOL could also theoretically have a separate namespace. Remember that TR3 and BC4 only have separate namespaces because it was decided that content didn't belong in MWMod or OBMod (spaces which already exist for mod content); so I would say for one dev's UOL to have it's own namespace primarily for the purpose of lorespace-adjacent articles, we first need to consider the parallel that any UOL concepts get their own lorespace-adjacent articles (whether directly in Lorespace, somewhere in General with the UOL source material, or in their own "UOL" namespace). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 14:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

== Trivia/citing myself as a source ==

Hey there! The social media [https://www.facebook.com/share/p/188yfZYRLL/ post about Slouchbears] reminded me of a similar bit of trivia: at PAX East 2018, in the build of ESO they had for the Summerset demo, [[ON:Bright Moons Lunar Moth|Bright Moons Lunar Moths]] didn't exist, but rather there were identical (but orange) moths named "Feather Moths" all around Summerset. Like Slouchbears, these don't exist as a creature in the final game, but the NPC [[ON:Feathermoth|Feathermoth]] is named after them, and there's two references to them in the form of a Treasure description and NPC dialogue, so we've got them listed on the [[Lore:Moth|Lore:Moth]] page.

I think it's worth adding this to the appropriate pages since trivia is always fun and it helps explain the random handful of references, but as far as I'm aware, the only source aside from my own memories is my [https://blog.uesp.net/pax-east-2018-saturday-bethesda-gameplay-day/ blog post] from April 10, 2018 where I mention them by name (though not that they were orange) - I even double-checked the ESO Live broadcasts from around that time, but those used newer builds that had the newer moths. (The event and my post were in April 2018, the demo build was from Feb according to my other post about the event, and the Chapter was released in June.) Is it appropriate in this scenario to cite my own old post as a source? ~ [[User:Alarra|Alarra]] ([[User_talk:Alarra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alarra|contribs]]) 06:41, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

:Since it was published in a blog post I believe it should be fine. Hopefully there might be something in the old files too. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 06:52, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

::To second Rim's comment, yes this is totally fine. If you're the foremost knowledgeable person that published about it, you should be able to cite your own sources as long as it is not excessive and with good faith. There is the problem of verifiability, but we have to be lenient when we don't have any other surviving sources. This happens all the time in academia (there are some edge cases and differences, as you can plagiarize yourself in academia, which would not be applicable in this scenario). --[[User:Ilaro|Ilaro]] ([[User talk:Ilaro|talk]]) 11:09, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

== Documentation about how to use icons in a page ==
I edited [[Skyrim:Enchanting]] to add a detail about renaming enchanted items on the Switch. To match the format of the section I was editing, I added a template call to put the nintendo-switch icon in next to the text I added. It took me a rather long time (15-30 minutes) to figure out how to do this, despite me having experience with Wikipedia editing and MediaWiki admin. Is there a page on this wiki explaining how to use icons when editing a page? Should I start creating one? I couldn't find one linked from [[UESPWiki:Getting Started]]

[[User:Bsammon|Bsammon]] ([[User talk:Bsammon|talk]]) 22:49, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: On the (potential) de-listing of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (from gamespace) ==

This is a proposal on why I believe we should de-list the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (and Unofficial Special Edition Patch, etc) from Skyrim's gamespace, and my reasonings for it. As a some of us know, a short while ago an exposé on the patch and its developers, albeit primarily Arthmoor, was released. I want to clarify before going deeper in that whilst -some- of this comes into play into the proposal, my main concern remains the amount of "false flag" bugs that the patch "fixes" and are eventually added to UESP (oftentimes by patch developers themselves) Skyrimspace pages. I will however be using the exposé video as a source often, as I've struggled to find the original posts lost to time, and the video does a good job of showing the most relevant ones. Whenever a source points to this video, it will be to the respective timestamped location.

A lot of these "fixes" are extremely subjective and less-so bug fixes but instead are either "balance changes" made by the mod developers, or personal interpretations of lore and the setting. All of which are classified as "bugs" by the mod developers, and subsequently so on UESP's gamespace pages. Now, there are -a lot- of these changes, impossible to document them all here, so these will inherently be cherry picked by the most blatant ones. For this reason I will actually have multiple proposals by the end of this thread. So lets begin, first with some "bug" examples.

----
* The [[Skyrim:Restoration#Necromage_when_playing_as_a_vampire|Necromage perk]] makes spells more effective against an undead. If you are a vampire, which tags you as undead, it makes self-targeted spells more effective against you. This is removed by the Unofficial Patch as it's considered a bug. On UESP it was listed a bug as well. Personally I do not see how this is a bug, an oversight or exploit at most.

* [[Skyrim:Redbelly_Mine|Redbelly Mine]] has corpses killed by spiders within. An NPC meanwhile claims no one has been hurt by spiders. The Unofficial Patch "fixes" this by removing the corpses from the mine. This isn't a bug to be fixed, this is an in-world NPC not being all knowing. This Mine also has another "bug" fixed. Albeit this second bug fix is a bit more subjective. The mine in vanilla is an Ebony mine, albeit some NPC's refer to it as an Iron mine. On the other hand, the mine is located in Shor's Stone which also makes narrative sense, considering Ebony is the blood of Lorkhan and Shor is Lorkhan. In ESO, this mine is -also- an ebony mine. The Patch changes this to an Iron mine, and whilst this is more subjective and less clear-cut, I still do not think this is a "bug". However, this one is no longer listed on Redbelly Mine's page bug list in its entirety, due to a small edit discussion from a few months ago. In addition to this, this "fix" adds an entirely new mine to Skyrim with Ebony to compensate. This is not a bug fix, this is an outright worldspace change.
** And yet, this remains controversial, with Arthmoor himself as of 6th November 2025 sharing his thoughts on what he perceives as a bug. However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach.

* [[Skyrim:Aval_Atheron|Aval Atheron]] is a general goods merchant who in dialogue claims to sell just about anything ""Assorted fruits and vegetables, all delicious and affordable!", "I've a little of everything for sale, come and see for yourself!", "Wherever I can find them. If you're the type who worries over where something came from, you may want to move on."" However his merchant stall only shows meat. The Patch considers this a bug and does the following two "bug fixes". It removes all non-meat goods from his merchant inventory, and blocks dialogue lines unrelated to meat. I have no idea how these can be considered bugs. They're listed as bugs on UESP as well.

* The famous [[Skyrim:Fortify_Restoration|Restoration Loop]] is admittedly an exploit, which is "fixed" by the patch. But personally I do not see how this is a bug. This is another extremely subjective one, and I'm mostly only including it to show how subjective bug fixes are and why globally classifying all these things as bugs could be a bad thing.

* There's a few "fixes" that on UESP are not listed as bug fixes but instead as notes, such as the Patch adding an extra room to the Ragged Flagon, or Mjoll's sword being changed from a one-hander to two-hander. Personally, if all these "fixes" were in the notes instead of "bugs" I'd have less of an issue, but then I think "why bother having them"?

* This "fix" admittedly I'm not sure if it's even on UESP, as it is incredibly time-consuming to check, and IMO if it is on UESP it isn't listed as a bug or fix, but outright in quest and npc dialogue pages. Bethesda consistently writes "jarls" in the lowercase, whilst the Patch "corrects" all mentions of jarl to use the uppercase. I'll copy paste from the patch's buglist page itself: "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before jarls and moots." -> "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before Jarls and Moots." (Bug #31783); DialogueCompanionsJorrvaskrWarTopic [000DAB27]: "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of jarls." -> "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of Jarls." (Bug #31781) They also do this with "steward -> Steward"

* The [[Skyrim:Archmage's Robes|Archmage's Robes]] can be worn with a circlet in vanilla Skyrim. The Patch considers this a bug and prevents circlets (and dragonpriest masks) from being worn together with the robe. This is also listed as a bug on UESP.

* The [[Skyrim:The_Guardian_Stones|Thief Guardian Stone]] is changed to no longer boost Archery, instead Archery is boosted by the Warrior Stone. Whilst there are two other buffs in the game which consider Archery a Warrior skill instead of a Thief skill, this still feels more like a balance change than anything. On UESP this has conflicts as well, as the Archery page lists the change as a Note, whilst the Guardian Stone page lists it as a Bug.

Okay, there's countless bugs fixed or "fixed" by the patch, I can't go through them all here. These ones caught my eye the most, and are once again admittedly cherry-picked. So, lets move onto the less gameplay and more community related issues. This will be quite subjective.
----

The patch developers have curated a hostile environment towards other bug fix mods. They've regularly abused DMCA strike systems to take down other bug fix mods and *legal* ports of his own mod where he had no standing to take it down, to the point even Nexus pointed such out.[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=XTJRU1_DaCbJ15LP&t=3039][https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/np8bi8/arthmoor_has_possibly_illegally_used_dmca_to_get/] and Arthmoor himself has harassed and belittled people so often to the extent of being banned from subreddits such as skyrimmods[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=QVVd-MWhGZO8zLAV&t=2975]. Personally, I do not want to go in length into the drama here as that is secondary. One of the sources I listed in this section is the "exposé" (as I couldn't find the original reddit posts myself easily) so if you wish, watch it and make up your own mind. Regardless, I think it is worth mentioning as it will tie into one of my proposals, so lets get onto those.

*'''Proposal One:''' This is the most lenient one. All "bug fixes" are moved to the Notes section on their respective pages, as some UESP pages already do this. This keeps the information visible whilst getting rid of the hard cut "bug" label on many things which aren't bugs.

*'''Proposal Two:''' The incoherent and more subjective "bug fixes" are removed from the pages. We can perhaps list them on the modspace for the patch instead.

*'''Proposal Three:''' All mentions of the unofficial patch are purged from UESP's gamespace. This is a nuclear option, and this is where the drama part comes in. Considering how -hostile- Arthmoor is to other modders and the general community at large, I feel weird seeing UESP "endorse" him in such a manner. I understand this one might be a bit too extreme for some, but considering the years of conflict caused by the head of this patch's dev team, I do think it's still worth considering. Moreso with Arthmoor's antics regarding his mod going as far as to deleting fair talk page related criticism on the UESP itself. Although I very much understand if the other two options, especially Proposal One, are more acceptable.

Well, that's my proposal- I hope we can have a productive conversation on this topic [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 07:27, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:On actual bugs: I think it's important to continue noting where a bug is fixed by USSEP, but I think that concept should be expanded to include any bug-fix compilation mod. USSEP is not the only mod that fixes bugs, and anything that ''is'' an actual bug-fix should not be relegated from Bugs to Notes.
:On subjective balance changes: Here I agree with Proposal One. Anything that is ''not'' an obvious bug should indeed be moved to Notes. And perhaps if we have that, we could also detail any mod that reverts USSEP's subjective changes, so anyone who is using USSEP for the bug fixes has an idea of how to restore vanilla functionality. But if we continue to indicate where USSEP actually fixes bugs, I think we also need to continue indicating the other stuff too; while it is technically not relevant, only covering half of what it does seems incomplete. Moving those things to modspace per Proposal Two could work, but we don't need that page turning into another USSEP change log list, so I think that would be less beneficial overall.
:On de-listing: As I said above, I'd rather see more mods that fix bugs being included, than removing information of when a bug is fixed. But I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of audit on what we actually consider a "bug" (based on our definition, not USSEP's). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:55, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::I've always wanted to completely purge "This bug is fixed by [mod]" from the wiki. I feel like information on mods should stay in mod-space and not be included on pages about the vanilla game. USSEP is linked to on well over 1,000 articles, which comes across as a big endorsement. I have a bugfix mod of my own, and if I were to link it on the hundred relevant UESP articles then I would generate a not-insignificant amount of revenue from the free advertising, since the Nexus page is monetised. Beyond USSEP, we also have Morrowind articles saying "This bug is fixed by [mod]" that link to a bugfix project that the active Morrowind modding community considers outdated and no longer recommend.

::Perhaps another solution would be to edit the Bug template to link to a page in mod-space that contains a list of bugfixing mods for that game. This way people can be made aware that various bugfix mods exist without choosing a single one to be advertised across the wiki. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::: I'm in full agreement with Samantha, it has also left a weird taste in my mouth to see an "endorsement" in this way. Even if it's not UESP doing it, it's still allowing it. I would personally be up for your proposal of linking to a bug fixing mod list page on a bug template instead of outright listing the mod. This would allow us to maintain bug fixes/subjective change info without showing favouritism to anyone, and without cluttering gamespace pages with 30 bug fix mods. And USSEP aside, it'd also mostly resolve the issue of outdated information as well for sure. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 19:25, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:::: Yeah, I support this. Even if the mod is super popular, we shouldn't be listing it uniquely compared to other mods. The patch infamously adds a whole other room to the Ratway for people to sleep in, which far oversteps the territory of mere bug fixing. Not that it being strictly bug fixing would mean it deserves the coverage it gets. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 23:20, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: I also support this. Proposal two is sensible, but I'm not opposed to proposal three, given how any attempts at an alternative patch for Skyrim have repeatedly shut down by the operators of USSEP under ludicrous pretenses, in some ways it is odd to endorse the project at all. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::For the sake of example, I made some edits to the Bug template to produce [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]]. Official patches have had the word "official" removed as there's no longer a need to clarify, and mod bugfixes link to "[Namespace] Mod:Mods" to showcase my suggestion. This would rename some categories, but would no longer advertise one specific mod over others. The trackerid parameter has also been removed.

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug.|OSP|1.10.0}}

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug fixed by a mod.|SRMOD}}

::::::This isn't intended to be the final template, but hopefully is something visual that can help the discussion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 22:24, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I agree that UESP's endorsement of specific mods in gamespace is a poor decision in hindsight, particularly with Arthmoor's Oblivion and Skyrim patches. Those mods are nothing short of controversial at this point, despite their widespread use, a bit like the Morrowind Sound & Graphics Overhaul became over time.

:::::::I like where Samantha is going with idea of hiding the name and version of the patch while preserving the metadata in the page's source. It may look even cleaner to remove the sub-bullet and add some sort of parenthical superscript at the end of the bug description via the template. In any case, hiding version numbers is a good idea because no general reader cares which version fixed a bug—they just use the latest version. It's only good for editors to find the relevant changelog sometime in the future. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::I agree that de-emphasizing any single bug fixing mod over others is definitely the right way to go. However I do think for people that have run into the bug, knowing which mod would fix it for them would still be valuable to include somehow, but in a way that multiple mods can be listed that makes sense, at least for bugs that impede quest progress or otherwise soft-lock you out of quests. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 03:03, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::I created [[User:Samantha Says/Bug/Mods|this page]] to show what linking to a collection of bugfixing mods could look like. It could be under <samp>Namespace Mod:Bugfixes</samp> for each game, or a single compilation page like the already existing [[Mod:Main Page]] article. The user experience in this case when reading an article would be: they see the bug, they see that unofficial mods fix the issue, and then can explore a non-exhaustive collection of bugfix projects that tackle various issues, giving them a point in the right direction for modifying their game. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 21:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

{{od}}I am in support of this proposal, provided that the policy is applied evenly across all game namespaces (i.e., remove UOP, UORP, and UORPD from Oblivion namespace, remove MPP, MCP, PfP, and OpenMW from Morrowind namespace, remove DFQFIX from Daggerfall namespace, remove every single reference to a specific mod for a specific bugfix). — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 21:35, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

:On a sidenote relating to the subject of mods and bug fixes, I believe the article [[Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] shouldn't even exist. It is unnecessary, as UESP generally documents mods that add meaningful, playable content or address a broad range of issues. Mods that fix numerous bugs, such as the [[Skyrim Mod:Unofficial Skyrim Patch|Unofficial Skyrim Patch]], are relevant because of their wide impact and significance to gameplay. By contrast, this mod addresses only a single, isolated issue, which makes it less suitable for inclusion on UESP. [[User:KevinM|KevinM]] ([[User_Talk:KevinM|talk]]) 06:39, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

::For whatever reason, I wasn't notified of updates here. So time to catch up on replies.
::I like the idea of Samantha's template especially with usage of the Bugfix Mod Collection page they made, and genuinely think that's the way to go. I also agree with Wolfborn, that we should apply this evenly across all gamespaces. With Samantha's bugfix collection page this'll be even easier to do.
::I'd also like to offer another idea for the bug/issue distinction. The term bug could be reserved for issues fixed by (official) patches, while anything modified or changed by "bug fix mods" could be called a tweak.

::* "Skyrim Patch version 1.10.0 fixes this bug."
::* "Unofficial Mods are available that can fix this bug." <-- If it fixes the same bug as above
::* "Unofficial Mods are available that can tweak this item" <-- If doesn't fix something officially recognized as a bug. This would resolve issues with subjective "bug fixes" such as Redbelly Mine

::So, '''Current Proposal'''
::- We implement Samantha's tweaked bugfix template. No singular mod is mentioned as fixing bugs anymore, instead linking to another UESP page listing various bugfix mods in each game. This makes it so UESP no longer "endorses" mods, some of which may or may not be seen as controversial, whilst allowing the content to remain and also doubling as a repository of various bug fix mods.

::I would like additional thoughts on a bug/tweak distinction as well
::[[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 13:48, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:::I don't think that it needs to be noted that a mod fixes a bug if it has been fixed by an official patch. The only time it would make sense to see this would be in remakes, for example a bug fixed in Oblivion Remastered but not the original.

:::I would suggest that "tweaks" would mean inconsistencies that go in an article's Notes section, rather than the Bugs section, and should probably not mention mods that address them. To use [[Skyrim:Redbelly Mine|Redbelly Mine]] as an example, the page currently says "the thick red mist described by the miners living in Shor's Stone is not present; the mine is clear inside." I wouldn't call this is a bug as there is no obvious typo in the cell's fog data, nor is there a demonstrable misclick that could have resulted in a red mist not being applied. Without those, this feels like a simple inconsistency (that could even be explained in-universe). This also applies to the infamous ore distribution; with no clear typo or misclick, it just becomes an inconsistency between dialogue and the cell itself, of which there are clearly many interpretations for how this could be explained.

:::I disagree that the term bug should be reserved for issues fixed by official patches, as there are unfixed bugs — especially in the older games — that can prevent quest progression or even crash the game, which are important to note for readers. I would rather define a bug on the {{tl|Bug}} doc page as a way to resolve subjective bugs being listed. This definition can be expanded in the future, but a good starting point would be:

:::*Causes game instability or crashes.
:::*Prevents or delays quest or mechanic progression.
:::*An inconsistency caused by a clear typo, for example [[Oblivion:Boots of Order|Boots of Order's]] heavy weight being 1.5 which clearly doesn't fit in the sequence.
:::*An inconsistency caused by a demonstrable misclick, for example [[Oblivion:Ra'Jhan|Ra'Jhan]] has Ra'Jahirr's house key and his bedroom door is owned by Ra'jiradh, both of which are right next to Ra'Jhan's listing in the Construction Set.
:::[[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 17:32, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

::::Does anyone else have an opinion on whether the article [[Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] should be kept on UESP? I created a deletion review [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] some time ago, but no one else commented. I then asked about it on the UESP Discord and was told I should bring the topic up here, since the discussion concerns mods and bug fixes. [[User:KevinM|KevinM]] ([[User_Talk:KevinM|talk]]) 23:11, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that the policy should be applied evenly across all gamespaces. I also agree with Samantha's definition of a bug. Restricting the term to bugs that have been officially recognised and fixed seems inadequate. In some cases, a bug that existed since launch might not get patched until much later, and it seems strange to claim that it only became a bug at that point. Mods that also include tweaks and subjective 'fixes' should be identified as such, either on the collection page or their own individual pages. As for the point Kevin raised, this proposal is likely to result in more bugfix mods getting individual pages, so I guess it depends how comprehensive we want the list to be. [[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 01:44, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::I agree with the proposal to implement a generic "bugfix" template and remove all mention of specific unofficial third-party mods from vanilla gamespace pages. It is not the purpose or function of the wiki to recommend or endorse any one individual mod for any specific purpose, and mentioning mods by name may be seen or interpreted by readers as doing so.

::::::I agree with Samantha that game "tweaks" (as opposed to clear bugfixes) should ''not'' be noted on vanilla namespace pages. There are literally thousands of mods which make thousands of "tweaks" to the vanilla games for various reasons; to note every instance would be impractical. Documenting the "tweaks" made by various mods is exactly what modspace is for.

::::::Regarding KevinM's question about a specific mod, the noted mod should remain documented on the wiki. The fact that it is a small, purpose-made mod to fix a single issue should not be a deciding factor in whether it should remain. The wiki should not discriminate either for or against the documentation of any individual mod as, again, it is not the place or purpose of the wiki to judge, rate, endorse, or recommend mods.
::::::— [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 03:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} On further thinking, I am in agreement with Samantha about the tweak-bug thing. Having a standardized "what counts as a bug" style guide page is a much better way of going about things. I'm very much on board with their counter proposals and ideas to my own and think they're the way to go.

'''Current Proposal'''

We implement (and re-iterate if needed) Samantha's tweaked bugfix template (ex: [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]] ). No singular mod is mentioned as fixing bugs anymore, instead linking to another UESP page listing various bugfix mods in each game (ex: [[User:Samantha Says/Bug/Mods|this page]] ). This makes it so UESP no longer "endorses" mods, some of which may or may not be seen as controversial, whilst allowing the content to remain and also doubling as a repository of various bug fix mods.

This policy is applied evenly across all gamespaces instead of solely to Skyrim's.

We create a bug fix style guide page showing examples of what we should consider a bug. Following Samantha's starting point ideas as a base, which I will copy below here for readability:
{{NewLine}}
*Causes game instability or crashes.
*Prevents or delays quest or mechanic progression.
*An inconsistency caused by a clear typo, for example [[Oblivion:Boots of Order|Boots of Order's]] heavy weight being 1.5 which clearly doesn't fit in the sequence.
*An inconsistency caused by a demonstrable misclick, for example [[Oblivion:Ra'Jhan|Ra'Jhan]] has Ra'Jahirr's house key and his bedroom door is owned by Ra'jiradh, both of which are right next to Ra'Jhan's listing in the Construction Set.

I hope this is something we can agree and start getting to work on. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 05:41, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:That all seems reasonable. To clarify my earlier point on tweaks, which I don't think came across clearly, I meant that if a mod contains both tweaks and bugfixes (particularly if it's a broad-based one like USP etc) the description should make this clear so users can make their own minds up.—[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:39, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

::I am very happy with this proposal and am willing to put in the work to go through existing articles to remove questionable bug fixes, move inappropriate bugs to Notes sections, and flesh out the definition of a bug. I have also added the proposed definition to the proposed template. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:::The only question I would have now (which is essentially a rewording of a point I made earlier) is how to identify which mod fixes which bug without the mod's page turning into a duplicate of that mod's changelog. Say that we end up adding more bugfix compilations than just USSEP to the list - which would be a logical extension of this activity - how do I know whether a specific bug is fixed by USSEP, USMP, WAACCF or SLAWF? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:26, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

::::That is something that will be lost in the current proposal. I'm not sure if there would be a way to achieve that without turning the Bugs section of pages into "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." Personally I would prefer the current proposal over the existing Bug template and over listing multiple mods in the gamespaces. I designed the proposed template accepting that the functionality of promoting specific bugfix mods to the user would be lost. It does at least gives users a point in the right direction on where to find bugfixing mods, for what that's worth. It felt too far a step in the other direction to remove all references to bugfixing mods entirely, though I wouldn't object to it. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 00:05, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but doesn't practically every bug in some of these games have a mod that fixes it? Seems like a redundancy to say "There is a mod that fixes this" under every listed bug in a game like Skyrim where the modding community is so vast that every consistent feature is altered, let alone the inconsistencies. I'd be fine with axing the mod mentions all-together. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 01:32, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::I'll be happy if there is enough support for the original Option 3, where references to USSEP and other bugfix mods are removed entirely. Personally, I just want ''something'' done to remove what feels like a site-wide advertisement of USSEP, whether that's by making the "This is fixed by [mod]" text more vague or removing it entirely. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 01:40, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::On Option 3, then what's the point listing bugs if all we do is saying a bug is fixable? If we list all bug fixing mods in a page and direct all fixable bugs to this page are readers supposed to search on all those mods and find the one that fixes it? This does not seem helpful at all. On the other hand if what we do is to assume the reader knows that U**P is the default bug fixing mod unless they want to dive deeper then is this not the same as promoting U**P without saying the thing? I support the "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." approach even if it seems redundant. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:13, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::Just to clarify, the original Option 3 would be removing the "This bug is fixed by..." line entirely unless it is fixed in an official patch. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

{{OD}}
To provide another example, I've created a [[User:Samantha Says/Bug2|second template]] that removes the "This bug is fixed by [mod]" line entirely. It is backwards compatible with existing pages that say it is fixed by mods. For example:
<pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|OSSEP}}
</pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|OSSEP}}

<pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|USSEP}}
</pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|USSEP}}

This approach follows the original Proposal Three, purging all references to USSEP, and goes further to cover all modded content. I think if we're removing one problematic bugfix mod from gamespace, removing all of them would be wise to prevent a similar situation from happening in the future. This approach is also much simpler than trying to be fair to every bugfix mod out there and trying to ensure that they are all equally highlighted. The documentation has been updated to include a definition of a bug, which can be adjusted as deemed fit, as well as the parameters section being slightly edited for the ones deprecated. Do we think this would be a good solution? [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 21:47, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

: Proposal 3 (nuking bug fix mods, but specifically USSEP) was always my more desired option, so i'm perfectly fine with that! Whether we go for bug fix compendium (losing specific mod fix mentions on individual pages) or removing mod fix mentions entirely, I'm in agreement. I just do not feel it is wise to have UESP continue to advertise mods this way. They can still make their own namespace like many others do regardless. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 23:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

:: I haven't read this entire discussion, but as a new player and new wiki user, I oppose the removal of the word "official" for the official patches. Learning how to play Skyrim and trying to find what you're looking for on the wiki is confusing enough (especially with the lack of centralized pages in the wiki!!!). The word official assures me that it's an actual official patch and not a mod. Plus, why do all that work to remove one word wiki-wide when that one word isn't hurting anything ? Seems like a lot of busy-work. Re: USSEP, I have liked seeing what things that mod "fixes" on the pages, because I find it interesting, although I don't use any mods because I play on Amazon Luna so I don't think I can use mods ??? Plus it seems like keeping the info would be very useful for wiki users who do use mods or that mod in particular (I assume most users who mod their game DO use that mod??). But I understand why the wiki wouldn't want to advertise one mod over all others.

:: " However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach." . . . UESP allows deleting things off the Talk pages ? Another wiki that I frequent does NOT allow things to be deleted from talk pages or even the user's own talk pages and the patrollers enforce that. - [[Special:Contributions/2603:6081:5901:43E9:A12E:FF54:25BC:8562|2603:6081:5901:43E9:A12E:FF54:25BC:8562]] 13:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I see what you mean regarding the Official term, and I am fine with keeping it for those reasons if others agree. As for the talk page comments, they are against UESP rules to be deleted yes- that is exactly why I pointed it out as an example of Arthmoor's behaviour. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 15:09, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." is a much more useful opproach than removing them all. By removing them all we are not promoting certain mods but what do users gain? An almost useless section of bugs that they still need to search for ways to fix it, albeit more difficult than before. Treat all mods equally and list them all actually benefits users so those who are against Arthmoor and his project can have other choices shown to them. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:23, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: One issue with listing them all is simply because of USSEP's abuse towards smaller mods, abusing strike systems and using general harassment to get them taken down. On the other hand, I personally do not believe most people are using UESP to find fixes for specific mods. It's much easier to just search "gamename bug desc mod fix reddit". But this is personal bias and would require more data. I am fine with either approach, and do still think just linking to a bug modfix repository page is a good way to go[[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 16:32, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::: I'm in favor of nuking all references to external third-party mods on gamespace pages. I don't care one way or the other about Arthmoor as a person or what he does or doesn't do that causes controversy, but it has been something that has slightly bothered me for years and years that we are explicitly endorsing third-party modifications to the game on the gamespace pages. The UESPWiki's job should be to document the games as they ship from Bethesda. Listing bugs and saying "This is fixed by Patch X.xx.yy" in reference to official patches is the most I think we should be doing. If there is a bug that is marked on the page, I don't think the burden is on UESPWiki to notate what mods, if any, fix any given bug. The modspace pages are there for documenting mods the wiki community deems worth documenting and the Unofficial Patch mods can live there, but the gamespace pages should be for documenting official Bethesda content. If someone wants to look up how to fix certain bugs, they can Google it. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 02:02, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is it time to merge the Shivering namespace into the Oblivion namespace? ==

This was discussed many years ago, and it was decided not to go ahead with it. However, with the release of Oblivion Remastered I think it's time. The Dragonborn namespace was merged into the Skyrim namespace after the release of the Special Edition, when Dragonborn was fully integrated into the base game. Shivering Isles is now in the same position: Remastered fully integrates it into the base game, so I would say that the namespaces should now be merged.

It also brings up the question of Morrowind. It's obviously not in the same situation as Oblivion and Skyrim (for now), but I don't know if it makes sense to treat it differently.

[[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 21:33, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

:I've never been a fan of the expansion namespaces. It's especially frustrating when I want to compare equipment in Morrowind and have to open three different pages just to see what's available. With the release of Oblivion Remastered, I think makes sense to merge Shivering into Oblivion space, and therefore I agree that Morrowind being treated uniquely out of all of the games would be unusual and warrant merging its expansion namespaces too. As a user, I find superscripts like Dragonborn{{Dragonborn}} and Creation Club's{{CC}} to work perfectly in letting me know that something in the article belongs to an expansion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:52, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::From what I have heard, the Dragonborn namespace merge was quite a bit of work. I wasn't around yet for that, but if true, we should get ahead while we can. When TES VI releases we'll have much great priorities than this so it's better to do this sooner rather than later. The precedent put forth by Sheridan seems valid, seems like the exact same thing as Special Edition, so for consistency, we should have Shivering stuff in the main Oblivion-space. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 00:02, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I'd also support the merge, long thought we should have done this. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: Merging namespaces is a massive amount of wiki work that needs a dedicated team for its feasibility. Many articles within the expansion pack namespaces aren't even complete in their own right, especially Morrowind's expansion packs. Articles that still need images, dialogue, and even need to be wiki-fied in the first place. I understand the desire for simplicity that comes from the merging of the expansion spaces, but I do not see a large enough payoff in the improvement of the reader's access to the site in such projects relative to the massive effort it will require; unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams. I am not inherently opposed to this happening to namespaces, but I believe gamespace for Oblivion and Morrowind both have many larger issues that need addressing before this is seriously considered. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 01:26, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that they should be merged as the expansion is base game now due to Oblivion remastered.--[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 02:16, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::Of course, I appreciate it's a lot of work, especially for a purely volunteer website. But if we leave them as is, then there will be an incongruity between the Oblivion and Skyrim namespaces. And let's say that from TES VI onwards we decide to keep all expansions in the main namespace from the beginning. Morrowind and Oblivion will become increasingly anachronistic. And the Dragonborn Merge Project obviously suffered from having to figure everything out for the first time. Now that we know what to do, it will simplify the process at least a little bit. I just think that there's a good chance that the merges will end up being inevitable, depending on our approach to future games and their DLC. It's better to start early, since as [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] points out TES VI will obviously become the main priority when it releases. Even if it is still years away. Right now there's not a lot going on in TES world, apart from new content for ESO. If not now, when? [[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 13:43, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::The "when" is already described in my message above - "unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams."
:::::::As I've laid out above, these namespaces are already neglected by editors as is. To put in perspective, the UESP started an effort to document every item in each game on individual pages in their namespaces last year, and this project has seen almost zero progress since its announcement due to a fundamental lack of editors simply contributing to it in the first place.
:::::::Who are we proposing do all of this work? I do not believe it would be fair to expect the very few active editors in gamespace to put this on their plate without any plans or commitment from the wider community. Wanting the merge to happen is great, but a want is not enough to produce results. Again - I do not see the net benefit to our readers in comparison to instead sourcing and spending such massive effort on actually completing documentation in these namespaces in the first place. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 14:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:The merging for Oblivion would also make sense from a technical perspective as, unlike the Morrowind or Skyrim expansions, the Shivering Isles content was added to oblivion.esm directly. There's no shivering.esm like there are tribunal.esm, bloodmoon.esm, dawnguard.esm, hearthfire.esm, and dragonborn.esm. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 14:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::What I think is being misunderstood here is why the Dragonborn-Skyrim namespace merge finally ended up happening. It wasn't because the esms merged, at least not directly. The main issue was that Skyrim continued to get new content through the Creation program, and that new content was using bits an pieces from Dragonborn and Skyrim equally, so it was nearly impossible to figure out where exactly to place a quest. Something might start in Solstheim, then move to Skyrim proper, or vice versa, with equal bits of each.

::This just isn't the case for the remaster. Things are pretty clearly still delineated between SI and OB content, and the small number of new quests added have stuck to one area. There isn't a bunch of other random new official content being added to the game (at least, as far as we are currently aware), so there isn't a real reason to merge them at this time. It's a back end thing that really doesn't affect most editors or readers, and so the amount of effort involved (which ended up being significantly more than expected) is just not worth it. People want the merge just because they want it. But what it really boils down to is not typing two different letters for some pages. That's just not a good enough reason for all the effort, and a botched merge could be devastating for the wiki. It's not all that easy to just "undo" if it goes wrong. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:12, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::At this point a merge isn't worth the hassle. As Jeancey said above, the Dragonborn merge happened not because of Special Edition, but because of Creation Club, where they started releasing content that could no longer be delineated. As far as I know, the additional content in OB Remastered Deluxe is contained entirely within Cyrodiil, and doesn't cross over to the Isles at all, like Knights of the Nine.

:::While we've already agreed that we won't do separate namespaces for DLCs and expansions in the future, where separate namespaces already exist, the only viable reason to remove such a delineation is when the delineation itself is no longer viable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:03, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::This merge would be the ideal state of the wiki if all work could be done flawlessly with a bot. But it can't. Considering that number of edits dropped 78% from 2024 to 2025, the idea is effectively dead in the water. Renaming so many core content pages also carries negative effects by breaking external links and may be bad for search engine optimization, at least in the short term. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::Dillonn said exactly what I was thinking. While in some respects, having Oblivion all as one namespace might be ideal, we learned from the Dragonborn merge just how much work that is, especially for the bot programmers. I'm chronically ill and have made a point of cutting back on the amount of work I'm doing. I don't see it being feasible, at least not for me, to go through all that effort when there's very little gain, and it would introduce the SEO and link-breaking issues Dillonn mentioned. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:36, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace ==

Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace

Hello everyone. I'm proposing, with a proof of concept prototype, of a way to wrap all the dialogue on the Bladespace into neat little dialogue boxes that are cleaner, more compact and directly show the difference between conversation partners. (For the short version, [[User:Probored1/Sandbox2|just open this page]] and scroll down to see the dialogue box in question.)

I’d like to open a discussion about improving how we present dialogue across the Blades namespace. I know you're all used to it by now but give me a chance to lay my case. The current system, using colon indents (: / ::) along with two italicized apostrophes for NPC lines and three bold apostrophes for player lines has worked for a long time, after all no one has felt the need to change it after 30 years.

However, I find it increasingly unsatisfying. Long conversations turn into either densely crammed or porous walls of text that are hard to follow. The visual distinction between NPC and non-dialogue lines feels dated and inconsistent, and readability on mobile is often poor. While some namespaces have nicer custom dialogue layouts ([[Battlespire:Scamp|Battlespire being the best example]]), and others have attempted to build their own (See: [[User:Salamangkero/Template 1|Gheart's and Salamangkero's proposal for Morrowind]]), those approaches are too manual and were created simply to present data in a nicer flow rather than actually present it. As we're building up the Blades namespace, from which dialogue input into its pages is still relatively in its infancy, we've got a chance to build a primary dialogue wrapper first to then apply to the rest of the pages.

At the moment; take a look at [[Blades:Saashi]]. It is a mess of dialogue where you need to strain and recenter your eyes everytime to find out what is a normal text line and which one is italicized, and thats not even mentioning how messy trying to figure out where the indents could be on the longer conversations.

Here is an example taken from the page:

╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗

====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."''

╚════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

To address this messiness, I created a working proof-of-concept built within [[Template:DialogueTreeSetup]], which uses [[Module:DialogueTreeSetup]] (built with the existing Scribunto Lua extension).The usage is very simple. You wrap all your existing dialogue like this (without the \):

<pre>{{DialogueTreeSetup: <all your text here> }}</pre>

A simple wrapper that goes around your entire text without changing any of it, but using the already existing model of colons, indents and apostrophes to build the new model. Heres what it looks like:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/User:Probored1/Sandbox2

Compare the above to its original

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Blades:Saashi

In fact I'll even post an example here.

╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
<pre>
{{DialogueTreeSetup:

====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."'

}}
'</pre>

╚════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

turns into:

{{DialogueTreeSetup|
====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."''}}

Does this look better? I hope it does. I vibecoded it so its got some documentation issues, but it uses the Lua Scribunto extension thats already on the wiki. It automatically converts old <pre>:</pre> <pre>''</pre> <pre>'''</pre> dialogue into clean, boxed sections. It uses background (#efe1bc) thats usually used for code blocks. It distinguishes based off of color NPC lines from Player lines. It converts automatically the following : , :: , '' , ''' , /n and without any user input. Its basically something you can copy paste at a page without worrying about reformatting the whole thing. I made it so that it works with the already existing dialogue format, and that you can still use it without changing a single thing about it.It detects when a line of dialogue doesnt start with a : or :: and immediately stops the dialogue box to let the wiki text work without interference. It works with ===Headlines=== tooIts got much tighter and more professional appearance with minimal whitespace and colorblind-friendly contrastAgain, it works with your existing workflow, just wrap the old text.

However, there is one major limitation: performance. I can use it for this page because I only wrapped a small amount of text. But on larger pages (such as Blades:Saashi), it takes a whopping '''11 seconds''' for the page to load for me. This makes it completely unacceptable for site wide use in its present form. I was told a PHP extension using the same logic would bring load times down to roughly 2–4 seconds, which would make it practical.I am thus ''not'' proposing this as a finished solution yet, but something like this does deserve a discussion. I would appreciate your thoughts on the general direction and visual style. Would you be open to a PHP extension of this dialogue wrapper as the base template for all Blades pages? Are there any changes to the colors, spacing, or behavior you would like to see? Would you like to see it in other spaces? I’m happy to refine it based on feedback. Thank you for taking the time to read this. [[User:Probored1|Probored1]] ([[User talk:Probored1|talk]]) 03:04, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:'''Lightly Oppose''': This is an interesting proposal, and I commend the work done on the Lua-based template! That said, I see a few cracks in this idea.

:First, a correction: The current dialogue formatting used on most namespaces is not 30 years old. I believe it's as old as the ESO namespace. Before that, UESP focused on in-line dialogue conversations, especially for ''Oblivion'' ([https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:Permalink/2744956 Example]), and it was awful for scannability. It was only a few years ago that these started being converted over. Concerning the proposal, I don't see much of an issue with the standard format that would justify adding even one extra second of load times to pages, let alone two to four seconds at best with PHP. Load times are one of the most important SEO metrics, and also bog down both the reader and editor experience, making clicking around the namespace a pain. Is there a way to implement this using CSS or JavaScript instead? Perhaps it can be an optional gadget for readers who need the extra visual separation of dialogue blocks.

:As for your specific styling itself, am I missing something or is this simply adding color to the bold text and a background color box around the block? That's introducing various related issues like dark mode compatibility, WCAG accessibility e.g. contrast standards, and the clunkiness of having code blocks everywhere. The dialogue sections of pages are virtually all dialogue except for a short intro phrase. This also adds another step to documenting dialogue, which I expect should be kept as simple as possible considering Blades documentation is on a tight deadline. Improved formatting can wait until after the shutdown. Another issue is sitewide consistency; for example, colors have a specific meaning in some ESO dialogue and could potentially see expanded uses in other namespaces to reflect different types of choices.

:In any case, I don't want this post to sound negative, and I think you're doing a good job looking for ways to improve the site's visuals. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 04:10, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::Regarding the dark mode compatibility, as well as the unmentioned mobile functionality, this can be addressed with CSS with only small Lua tweaks in much the same way all the other template formatting is done. (I mostly just need to get a spare 30 minutes to look at it.) '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 05:15, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::'''H'''ey thanks for the quick reply. I have no arguments against SEO, and its loading times are absolutely what will sink or swim this project. As I said, most of this project is vibecoded from a LLM, and while I stopped experimenting with it, a few of the other admins and users experienced with the site's CSS did take a look at it and offer similar criticism related to switching to another method. However, I possess no coding experience and one of the purposes of this project was simply to get myself familiar with theses tools in the first place. One of the admins stated they were interested in taking a look at it just to see if it could be taken anywhere. As such, I can't actually answer if CSS, Javascript, or turning it into a simple gadget would work.

::On the other hand, I was told early on about the issues with dark mode. I had practiced trying to get CSS compability by assigning it a template to [[Template:DialogueTree/styles.css]] and I think its in a working state, and can be edited in without too much trouble. The boxes themselves are inspired by code blocks yes, but I was definitely planning on adding differences between both the player and the NPC to differentiate it more than the original text as seen here

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/261887896930353155/1488300085279330314/Capture_decran_le_2026-03-30_a_18.07.20.png?ex=69cd9877&is=69cc46f7&hm=f4dc68a2e8b53ac4984eb6ac82d0a474763caa94208922c75f2201be4e30c189&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

::However due to feedback I received on the discord, I was told it would look better if I simply went back to using italics and boldness. At the end of the day I simply wanted a wrapper that would make this text readable, and I think I largely succeeded in that. Its far more pleasant to my eye and makes reading theses pages less of a issue for me.

::On the matter of it changing how dialogue gets documented...No, that was precisely the point of this wrapper. Nothing gets changed. Yes it adds a single additional step of adding a {DialogueSetupTree| } in every page, but the actual format we used before did not break whatsoever. Nothing has changed in the way we submit the lines between NPC and player, the indexing and colons and formatting we use. Its simple given a touchup on top of it.

::On the matter of sidewide consistency, there is next to no consistency from one game to the next. Perhaps Skyrim and Blades are similar, but I provided evidence that Battlespire and Morrowind use different dialogue formats inherent to their properties. [[Daggerfall:Totem, Totem, Who Gets the Totem?|Daggerfall uses code blocks and italics]] to reflect that most dialogue is delivered from one direction only. Skyrim has NPC with NPC conversations that do not address the player and [[Skyrim:Fjotra|are different even on the same page]]....The point is that there is no sitewide consistency between different games. This wrapper is for Blades and exists solely for Blades. Perhaps a different one could be used for a different game, but this is what I made for it nonetheless. With kind regards, [[User:Probored1|Probored1]] ([[User talk:Probored1|talk]]) 05:35, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:::Most of the CSS isn't in the Lua Module anymore, and is back in the /style.css page, for tan-desktop I copied the exact CSS out of the Module. For dark mode i've adjusted the colors obviously. I haven't looked at mobile yet, I think that's just margin tweaking though. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 06:10, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-04-01T06:05:04Z

Kiz: I can read, honest

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage, .mw-notification-area {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

.popup_drop:hover .popup_menu, .popup_drop .popup_menu:hover, .popupPreview > * { background: var(--dark4); }

.popup_drop:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f; }

.popup_menu a:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f }

.popup_change_title_link { color: #152; }

.popup_history_row_even { background: var(--dark3); }

.popupPreview a.extiw, .popupPreview a.extiw:active { color: #36b; }

.popupPreview a.external { color: #36b; }

.oo-ui-window-body {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.codeEditor-status {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-windowManager-modal > .oo-ui-dialog {
background-color: var(--dark2_5);
}

.darkMode div#ace_settingsmenu {
color: var(--light1);
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry:hover {
background-color: var(--dark5_5);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="text"] {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
padding-left: 5px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"],
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"] {
appearance: none;
position: relative;
width: 1rem;
height: 1rem;
border: 1px solid var(--light2);
line-height: 1;
background: var(--dark5);
border-radius: 4px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]::before {
position: absolute;
width: 100%;
height: 100%;
left: 1px;
top: 1px;
text-align: center;
white-space: pre;
content: " ";
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before {
content: "\2713";
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog.ui-widget-content,
.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header {
background: var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header a.ui-dialog-titlebar-close.ui-corner-all,
.ui-dialog-content input:not([type="checkbox"]),
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group-heading,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .tool-select .label {
filter: invert(1);
}

.ui-widget-content, .wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog label {
color: var(--light1);
}

.ui-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane button {
filter: invert(1);
border: 1px solid;
}

.ui-button-text-only .ui-button-text {
filter:invert(1);
color: var(--light1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail-heading,
.oo-ui-tabSelectWidget {
background: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail {
background: var(--dark3);
}

.darkMode .lore-statues-navbar {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Template:Consensus */
.consup {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.conopp {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

.condef {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

/* Special:Preferences */
.client-js #preferences {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

/* Special:NewPages */
li.not-patrolled {
background-color: #414114;
border: 1px solid;
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

/* Unset for Userboxes to stop overwriting */
.userbox p, .userbox b, .userbox .center {
color: unset;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-header-title.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted .mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-savedLinksListWidget-placeholder.oo-ui-optionWidget .oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-viewSwitchWidget label.oo-ui-labelWidget {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget[class*=mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-name],
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-outlined .oo-ui-tagItemWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted:not(.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected) {
background: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.oo-ui-tabOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background: var(--dark3);
}

/* dialoouetree */

.dialoguetree-box {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
color:#47b1f7;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
color: var(--light1);
}

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-04-01T06:04:20Z

Kiz: m

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage, .mw-notification-area {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

.popup_drop:hover .popup_menu, .popup_drop .popup_menu:hover, .popupPreview > * { background: var(--dark4); }

.popup_drop:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f; }

.popup_menu a:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f }

.popup_change_title_link { color: #152; }

.popup_history_row_even { background: var(--dark3); }

.popupPreview a.extiw, .popupPreview a.extiw:active { color: #36b; }

.popupPreview a.external { color: #36b; }

.oo-ui-window-body {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.codeEditor-status {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-windowManager-modal > .oo-ui-dialog {
background-color: var(--dark2_5);
}

.darkMode div#ace_settingsmenu {
color: var(--light1);
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry:hover {
background-color: var(--dark5_5);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="text"] {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
padding-left: 5px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"],
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"] {
appearance: none;
position: relative;
width: 1rem;
height: 1rem;
border: 1px solid var(--light2);
line-height: 1;
background: var(--dark5);
border-radius: 4px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]::before {
position: absolute;
width: 100%;
height: 100%;
left: 1px;
top: 1px;
text-align: center;
white-space: pre;
content: " ";
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before {
content: "\2713";
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog.ui-widget-content,
.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header {
background: var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header a.ui-dialog-titlebar-close.ui-corner-all,
.ui-dialog-content input:not([type="checkbox"]),
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group-heading,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .tool-select .label {
filter: invert(1);
}

.ui-widget-content, .wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog label {
color: var(--light1);
}

.ui-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane button {
filter: invert(1);
border: 1px solid;
}

.ui-button-text-only .ui-button-text {
filter:invert(1);
color: var(--light1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail-heading,
.oo-ui-tabSelectWidget {
background: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail {
background: var(--dark3);
}

.darkMode .lore-statues-navbar {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Template:Consensus */
.consup {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.conopp {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

.condef {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

/* Special:Preferences */
.client-js #preferences {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

/* Special:NewPages */
li.not-patrolled {
background-color: #414114;
border: 1px solid;
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

/* Unset for Userboxes to stop overwriting */
.userbox p, .userbox b, .userbox .center {
color: unset;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-header-title.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted .mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-savedLinksListWidget-placeholder.oo-ui-optionWidget .oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-viewSwitchWidget label.oo-ui-labelWidget {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget[class*=mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-name],
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-outlined .oo-ui-tagItemWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted:not(.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected) {
background: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.oo-ui-tabOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background: var(--dark3);
}

/* dialoouetree */

.dialoguetree-box {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid (--dark5);
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
color:#47b1f7;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
color: var(--light1);
}

MediaWiki:Gadget-darkmode.css

2026-04-01T06:02:39Z

Kiz: + dialoguetree

:root {
--dark1: #212121;
--dark2: #2d2d2d;
--dark2_5: #2d2d2d88;
--dark3: #3a3a3a;
--dark4: #424242;
--dark5: #555;
--dark5_5: #5558;
--light1: white;
--light2: #ccc;
--link1: #33a3e9;
--link2: #2c90cc;
--elink1: #ff7979;
--elink2: #ffcd70;

--redlink: #ff5050;
--redlink-visited: #e39b8c;
}

table.wikitable, .uslLinkTable, .mw-datatable > th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.wikitable > tbody > tr > td, .uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > td, .mw-datatable > tbody > tr > td {
background: inherit;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: inherit;
}

.uslLinkTable > tbody > tr > th, .mw-datatable th {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
z-index: 100;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.mw-datatable tr:hover td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.wikitable > tr > th,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th,
.mw-datatable,
.wikEdConsoleTopWrapper,
table.wikitable > tr > th.mid,
table.wikitable > * > tr > th.mid,
tr.mid, td.mid {
background: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

table.striped tr:nth-child(even),
table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+4), table.striped2_1 tr:nth-child(4n+5),
.citation:target, .citation:target td {
background-color: #4a4a4a;
}

tr.striped {
background-color: #717171 !important;
}

.coloredlinks > a {
color: inherit !important;
}

.wikEdFrameBodySyntax {
background: #525252;
}

.wikEdFrameInner {
background: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.idref {
color: #2a99ff;
}

table.wikitable > caption,
.mw-contributions-table,
#mw-htmlform-source,
#mw-htmlform-description,
.mw-input,
.mw-recentchanges-table,
.mw-changeslist,
.mw-enhanced-rc,
.mw-datatable,
.TablePager_nav,
.mw-label,
table.hiddentable th,
table.hiddentable td,
td.hiddentable,
.mw-newarticletext plainlinks,
#mw-diff-otitle3,
#mw-diff-ntitle3,
.diff-ntitle,
.diff-otitle,
.mw-diff-empty,
.mw-diff-edit,
.mw-diff-undo,
.mw-usertoollinks,
.diff-lineno,
.diff-marker,
.diff-multi,
#mw-prefixindex-nav-table,
table > caption,
th,
.selflink,
#mw-searchoptions > * > * > tr > td,
.namespaceoptions > form > fieldset > legend,
#contentSub,
table td dl,
.vtop > tbody > tr > * > p,
.citation,
div.vectorMenu h3 span,
div#mw-panel div.portal h3,
#mw-clearyourcache,
#mw-sitecsspreview,
#mw-sitejspreview,
#mw-usercsspreview,
#mw-userjspreview,
#siteSub,
p,
dl,
ol,
.rcoptions,
.mw-editinginterface,
.wpSummaryLabel,
.editOptions,
.mw-editTools,
.references,
.mw-specialpage-summary,
.fullImageLink,
.fileInfo,
.mw-imagepage-section-metadata,
#mw-history-search,
.mw-contributions-form,
.NavHead > div,
#genWhiteText,
.genWhiteText,
fieldset,
#mw-content-text,
.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
table.vtop td,
table.vtop th,
table.vtop tr,
td > b,
#esotbFormulaPopup > div,
table > tbody > tr > td,
.citation:target, .citation:target td,
.tocnumber {
color: var(--light1);
}

.updatedmarker {
background-color: #7b7432;
}

#esotbFormulaBottomNote {
color: #aaa !important;
}

.lgclass-neutral > * > * > *,
#skyrimBox > div, .skyrimBox > div {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

a, .mw-body a.extiw, .mw-body a.extiw:active, #p-cactions li a, #p-personal li a {
color: #44a8f4;
}

a:visited, .mw-body a.extiw:visited {
color: #0c78ca;
}

td.htmlform-tip {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-datatable td {
background-color: #525252;
color: black;
border: 1px solid #666;
}

body {
background: #212121 url(https://images.uesp.net/2/20/UESP-rock-bg.jpg) 0 0 repeat;
}

div.pBody, div#content {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#p-cactions ul li.selected a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

table {
background: var(--dark1);
color: black;
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

#pagehistory li.selected {
color: inherit;
}

ul {
color: var(--light1);
list-style-image: none;
}

table.diff, td.diff-otitle, td.diff-ntitle, img.thumbimage, .mw-notification-area {
background: var(--dark3);
}

div.tleft, div.tright, div.tnone {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.toc, #toc, #catlinks, .example, table.mw_metadata th, table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.example, .fmenu {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

code {
background-color: #333333;
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumb div {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

li.gallerybox div div.thumb {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

table.mw_metadata th {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.mw_metadata td {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.NavPic {
background-color: #ffffff;
margin: 0px;
padding: 2px;
float: left;
}

div.NavFrame div.NavHead {
height: 1.6em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 100%;
background-color: #efefef;
position: relative;
}

div.breadcrumb p, table.breadcrumb p {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.quotebox {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border-left-color: grey;
}

div.mw-search-profile-tabs {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

table.example {
background-color:#FCF3E0;
border:1px solid #E3C499;
padding:0.5em;
}

table.greylapse, table.graylapse {
background: var(--dark3);
}

table.greylapse th, table.graylapse th {
background: var(--dark2);
}

table.striped tr: nth-child(even) {
background-color: #575757;
}

/* For use by Template: Note */
.citation: target, .citation: target td {
background-color: #555EFF;
}

.navbox { /* Navbox container style */
border: 1px solid #aaa;
width: 100%;
margin: auto;
clear: both;
font-size: 88%;
text-align: center;
padding: 1px;
}

.navbox-inner, .navbox-subgroup {
width: 100%;
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title, .navbox-abovebelow {
text-align: center; /* Title and above/below styles */
padding-left: 1em;
padding-right: 1em;
}

th.navbox-group { /* Group style */
white-space: nowrap;
/* @noflip */
text-align: right;
}

.navbox, .navbox-subgroup {
background: #464646; /* Background color */
border-color: #666;
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox-list, .navbox-list > div {
border-color: #464646; /* Must match background color */
color: var(--light1);
}

.navbox th, .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark2) /* Level 1 color */
}

.navbox-abovebelow, th.navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title {
background: var(--dark3) /* Level 2 color */
}

.navbox-subgroup .navbox-group, .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow {
background: var(--dark4) /* Level 3 color */
}

.navbox-even {
background: var(--dark5) /* Even row striping */
}

.navbox-odd {
background: transparent; /* Odd row striping */
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

fieldset#mw-searchoptions table {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-search-formheader {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-highlighted {
background-color: #4a4a4a !important;
}

.not-patrolled {
background-color:#CCBB88;
}

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */
div.esomaptext {
padding:15px 20px 10px 0;
background:#EBE0C8;
border-radius:5px;
}

hr.clearboth {
background-color: #EBE0C8;
border:1px solid #EBE0C8;
clear:both;
}

#preftoc li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#preftoc li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.editOptions {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

td.diff-deletedline {
border-color: #a08f32;
background-color: #C5AF39;
color: var(--light1);
}

td.diff-addedline {
border-color: #209e0c;
background-color: #22B30B;
color: var(--light1);
}
td.diff-addedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #63e853;
}

td.diff-deletedline .diffchange {
color: red;
background-color: #e8d468;
}

.diffchange {
background-color: #FFCDF3;
}

td.diff-context {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border-color: var(--dark2);
color: var(--light1);
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-nolines, ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid lightgrey;
padding:4px;
display:inline-block;
}

ul.gallery.mw-gallery-packed {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border:1px solid var(--light2);
display:inline-block;
text-align:left;
}

div#footer {
margin: 2em 0 1em 11em;
border-top: 1px solid;
border-bottom: 1px solid;
border-left: 1px solid;
padding: .3em;
background-color: var(--dark3);
border-color: #239ffa;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: var(--light1);
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body {
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5)
}

div.mw-editTools td {
background-color: var(--dark1);
color: var(--light1);
}

div.thumbcaption {
color: var(--light1);
}

html .thumbimage, div.markedimage {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.mw-body a.external {
color: var(--elink1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited {
color: var(--elink2);
}

.hlist.inline, .hlist.inline dl, .hlist.inline ol, .hlist.inline ul, .hlist dl dl, .hlist dl ol, .hlist dl ul, .hlist ol dl, .hlist ol ol, .hlist ol ul, .hlist ul dl, .hlist ul ol, .hlist ul ul {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

table.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos th, tr.EffectPos td, th.EffectPos, td.EffectPos {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Potion > tbody > tr > th, th.Potion {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.wikitable.Poison > tbody > tr > th, th.Poison {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

table.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg th, tr.EffectNeg td, th.EffectNeg, td.EffectNeg {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}
table.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix th, tr.EffectMix td, th.EffectMix, td.EffectMix {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

pre, .mw-code, div.noarticletext {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

pre span.o, pre span.c {
color: tan !important;
}

pre span.nt, pre span.k, pre span.nb, pre span.kd, pre span.sx, pre span.nc, pre span.nf {
color: #59d459 !important;
}

pre span.m {
color: #6e6eff !important;
}

pre span.s1, pre span.s2 {
color: #d82626 !important;
}

pre span.nd {
color: #ec3cbe !important;
}

.suggestions,
.suggestions-result,
div.suggestions-special,
.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link,
#searchInput,
.suggestions-special .special-query,
.mw-ui-input,
.esotbStatTabSelected,
.esotbAttrTitle,
.oo-ui-menuSelectWidget,
.oo-ui-buttonElement-button,
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-handle,
.mw-changeslist-legend,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuHeaderWidget-header,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-menuSelectWidget-footer {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border-color: #888 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless.oo-ui-iconElement > .oo-ui-buttonElement-button > .oo-ui-iconElement-icon,
.oo-ui-indicatorWidget.oo-ui-indicatorElement.oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator,
.mwe-upwiz-license-icon mwe-upwiz-cc-zero-icon {
filter: drop-shadow(0 0 0 black) drop-shadow(0 -1px 0 white) drop-shadow(1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(-1px 0 0 white) drop-shadow(0 1px 0 white);
}

#mwe-upwiz-deeds-thumbnails {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
}

.esotbStatSectionTitle {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:hover, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:active, .suggestions a.mw-searchSuggest-link:focus, .esotbStatComputeButton, .esotbStatDetailsButton, .mwe-upwiz-file filled:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mwe-upwiz-file-preview {
border: none;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitle, .esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > *, .esovsAbilityBlockTitle > * > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > *, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot > * > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > *, #esotbItemDetailsPopup > * > * {
color: var(--light1);
}

.esovsSubclassResetButton, .esovsSubclassCancelButton {
color: black !important;
}

.esovsSkillTypeTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitleHighlight, .esovsSkillLineTitle:hover, .esovsAbilityBlockHover:hover, .esovsSearchHighlight, .esovsSearchHighlight:hover, .esovsSubclassPopupChoice:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.esotbStatBlock, .esotbNewVersion, .esotbBuildNote, #esovsSubclassPopupRoot, #esotbItemDetailsPopup, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover, #esovsSearchBlockFloat {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.esotbHeaderNote {
background-color: #255f2e;
}

.ecdBuildTableHeader, #esotbItemDetailsCloseButton, .esotbSkillDetailsDesc, .ecdBuildRowHover:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * th {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

#editcount > table > * table > * td {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

#searchInput {
top: 17px !important;
}

#searchBody {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
padding-bottom: 0.1em
}

#simpleSearch > #searchInput {
margin-top: 0.1em;
margin-left: 0.1em;
}

#wpTextbox1,
#wpSummary,
#wpDestFile,
#wpUploadDescription,
#wpLicense,
#mw-bi-target,
#mw-input-wpExpiry,
#mw-input-wpExpiry-other,
#mw-input-wpReason,
#mw-input-wpReason-other,
#mw-input-wpTarget,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget:hover .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget .oo-ui-selectWidget,
#tagfilter.mw-tagfilter-input.mw-ui-input.mw-ui-input-inline,
#namespace,
#year,
#month,
input.mw-input,
.mw-input > input,
#mw-whatlinkshere-target,
#contexttitle,
#wpInput,
#mw-input-page,
#mw-log-user,
#mw-log-page,
select,
#from.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-ui-input-inline,
#filename.mw-ui-input-inline,
#offset.mw-autocomplete-user,
#mime,
#editcount > table > tbody > tr > td > input,
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled input[readonly],
.oo-ui-textInputWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled textarea[readonly],
.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-dropdownWidget-open .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-textInputWidget-autosized,
.oo-ui-inputWidget-input oo-ui-element-hidden,
.mw-widget-dateInputWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-floatableElement-floatable mw-widget-calendarWidget mw-widget-dateInputWidget-calendar,
.oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-capsuleMultiselectWidget-handle,
.oo-ui-popupWidget-popup,
.mwe-title mwe-readonly ui-corner-all {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

.oo-ui-dropdownWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled .oo-ui-dropdownWidget-handle:hover,
.oo-ui-menuOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background-color: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
border-color: (--dark5);
}

#p-cactions li.selected {
border-color: #239ffa;
}

div.vectorTabs li.selected {
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

div.vectorMenu li {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

div.vectorTabs ul li, div#mw-head div.vectorMenu h3 {
background-image: url(//images/a/aa/Wiki-Vector-Gradient-Dark.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
border-right: solid 1px #aaa;
}

#p-cactions li {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
background: none;
}

#p-cactions ul li a {
background: var(--dark1);
}

#p-logo a {
background-image: url(//images.uesp.net/e/e3/UespLogoGreyscale.png);
background-size: contain;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height:165px;
width:165px;
}

.mw-wiki-logo {
background-image: none;
}

#uespMainLogo,
#uespNewsDiv,
#uespFADiv,
.noticeStandard,
#filetoc,
.mw-contributions-footer > table {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.notice-default {
background-color: #23232A !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightRed {
background-color: #440000 !important;
border: 1px solid #121200 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#lightOrange, .mw-destfile-warning {
background-color: #302a00 !important;
border: 1px solid #8f8f00 !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.pinkBox {
background-color: #400045 !important;
border: 1px solid #ed00ff !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.plainlinks.news, #footer-info > li {
color:var(--light1) !important;
}

.mw-changeslist-legend {
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

#mw-indicator-mw-helplink a {
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Question_mark_white.png);
background-size: contain;
}

form > table > tbody > tr {
color: var(--light1);
}

a.new {
color: var(--redlink);
}

a.new:visited {
color: var(--redlink-visited);
}

li.gallerybox div.thumb {
background: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark5);
}

/* ESO Colors */

#esoAldmeriDominion, .esoAldmeriDominion { background: #6E632A !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion2, .esoAldmeriDominion2 { background: #B8A646 !important; }
#esoAldmeriDominion3, .esoAldmeriDominion3 { background: #C5AF39 !important; }

#esoArtaeum, .esoArtaeum { background: #A14659 !important; }
#esoArtaeum2, .esoArtaeum2 { background: #C98492 !important; }
#esoArtaeum3, .esoArtaeum3 { background: #D34A65 !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #7C8F56 !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #454F30 !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #678131 !important; }

#esoColdharbour, .esoColdharbour { background: #67556D !important; }
#esoColdharbour2, .esoColdharbour2 { background: #9B87A1 !important; }
#esoColdharbour3, .esoColdharbour3 { background: #6B4376 !important; }

#esoCraglorn, .esoCraglorn { background: #8D6747 !important; }
#esoCraglorn2, .esoCraglorn2 { background: #BD9A7D !important; }
#esoCraglorn3, .esoCraglorn3 { background: #A66E40 !important; }

#esoCyrodiil, .esoCyrodiil { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil2, .esoCyrodiil2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoCyrodiil3, .esoCyrodiil3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoDaggerfallCovenant, .esoDaggerfallCovenant { background: #3A576A !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant2, .esoDaggerfallCovenant2 { background: #628CA8 !important; }
#esoDaggerfallCovenant3, .esoDaggerfallCovenant3 { background: #0B62B3 !important; }

#esoDefault, .esoDefault { background: #2D2D2D !important; }
#esoDefault2, .esoDefault2 { background: #4A4A4A !important; }
#esoDefault3, .esoDefault3 { background: #101010 !important; }

#esoDisabled, .esoDisabled { background: #808080 !important; }
#esoDisabled2, .esoDisabled2 { background: #A0A0A0 !important; }
#esoDisabled3, .esoDisabled3 { background: #606060 !important; }

#esoEbonheartPact, .esoEbonheartPact { background: #923125 !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact2, .esoEbonheartPact2 { background: #D25A4B !important; }
#esoEbonheartPact3, .esoEbonheartPact3 { background: #B31C0B !important; }

#esoHighIsle, .esoHighIsle { background: #15BABC !important; }
#esoHighIsle2, .esoHighIsle2 { background: #009C9E !important; }
#esoHighIsle3, .esoHighIsle3 { background: #00CED1 !important; }

#esoImperialCity, .esoImperialCity { background: #438D37 !important; }
#esoImperialCity2, .esoImperialCity2 { background: #73C466 !important; }
#esoImperialCity3, .esoImperialCity3 { background: #22B30B !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #5A9500 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #79C800 !important; }

#esoNorthernElsweyr, .esoNorthernElsweyr { background: #5B3918 !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr2, .esoNorthernElsweyr2 { background: #AC6C2D !important; }
#esoNorthernElsweyr3, .esoNorthernElsweyr3 { background: #845222 !important; }

#esoVvardenfell, .esoVvardenfell { background: #89460D !important; }
#esoVvardenfell2, .esoVvardenfell2 { background: #E77515 !important; }
#esoVvardenfell3, .esoVvardenfell3 { background: #F26F10 !important; }

#esoWesternSkyrim, .esoWesternSkyrim { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim2, .esoWesternSkyrim2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoWesternSkyrim3, .esoWesternSkyrim3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoBlackwood, .esoBlackwood { background: #4A7BAC !important; }
#esoBlackwood2, .esoBlackwood2 { background: #8EAECE !important; }
#esoBlackwood3, .esoBlackwood3 { background: #5E95CB !important; }

#esoNecrom, .esoNecrom { background: #4B6200 !important; }
#esoNecrom2, .esoNecrom2 { background: #79C800 !important; }
#esoNecrom3, .esoNecrom3 { background: #5A9500 !important; }

#esoWestWeald, .esoWestWeald { background: #997700 !important; }
#esoWestWeald2, .esoWestWeald2 { background: #BC8F20 !important; }
#esoWestWeald3, .esoWestWeald3 { background: #CC9F00 !important; }

#chartgeneral, .chartgeneral {
border-color: var(--light1) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox, .chartbox {
background-color: #313131;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartboxt, .chartboxt {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

#chartbox a, .chartbox a {
color: #0646ac;
}

#chartbox a:visited, .chartbox a:visited {
color: #0750c5;
}

.mw-search-profile-tabs div.search-types ul li.current a {
color: var(--light2);
}

.mw-plusminus-neg {
color: #c30000;
}

.mw-plusminus-pos {
color: #009e00;
}

.wikEdConsoleWrapper {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

#notice {
background-color: #969088;
}

.imageInvert {
filter: invert(1);
}

.light-background {
background-color: var(--light2);
}

#loApp {
background-color: var(--dark1) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

#loApp > * > tr > td, #genLightColor > td, #genLightColor, .genLightColor > td, .genLightColor, .errorbox {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genLightColor > hr, .genLightColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark3);
border: 1px solid var(--dark3);
}

#loApp > * > tr > th, #genMidColor > td, #genMidColor, .genMidColor > td, .genMidColor {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
border-color: var(--light2) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

#genMidColor > hr, .genMidColor > hr {
background-color: var(--dark2);
border: 1px solid var(--dark2);
}

.mw-ui-button.mw-ui-progressive, .mw-ui-button.mw-ui-primary, #esotbFormulaPopup {
background: var(--dark4);
}

#p-personal li > a:hover, #p-cactions li > a:hover {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.mw-notification-content {
background: var(--dark3) !important;
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortUp {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/a/a6/Sort_down_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_down_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSortDown {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/Sort_up_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_up_small_white.svg.png) !important;
background-position: right 6px center;
}

table.jquery-tablesorter th.headerSort {
background-image: url(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/5/50/Sort_both_small_white.svg/8px-Sort_both_small_white.svg.png);
background-position: right 6px center;
}

#skyrimBox, .skyrimBox {
outline:2px solid var(--dark3) !important;
border:1px solid var(--dark3) !important;
padding:2px; background: var(--dark3) !important;
}

#noticeWhite {
background-color: #fff8ee5c !important;
}

#noticeGen, #not-forum-notice {
background-color: #36363f !important;
}

#noticeWarn {
background-color: #682f2f !important;
color: var(--light1);
}

.mw-inputbox-centered {
background-color: transparent !important;
}

/* Classes to allow magic school colors to all be defined in one central place without having to rely on templates
Only designed to work with tables:
- If used as a table class, all headers will be the associated background color
- Or it can be used on individual rows or cells to override the background color in that part of the table
Includes some fairly specific css tags in order to override other table color requests */
table.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt th, tr.MWMagicAlt td, th.MWMagicAlt, td.MWMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon th, tr.MWMagicCon td, th.MWMagicCon, td.MWMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes th, tr.MWMagicDes td, th.MWMagicDes, td.MWMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll th, tr.MWMagicIll td, th.MWMagicIll, td.MWMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys th, tr.MWMagicMys td, th.MWMagicMys, td.MWMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes th, tr.MWMagicRes td, th.MWMagicRes, td.MWMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt th, tr.OBMagicAlt td, th.OBMagicAlt, td.OBMagicAlt {background-color: #646167 !important;}
table.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon th, tr.OBMagicCon td, th.OBMagicCon, td.OBMagicCon {background-color: #61612D !important;}
table.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes th, tr.OBMagicDes td, th.OBMagicDes, td.OBMagicDes {background-color: #5D0D0D !important;}
table.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll th, tr.OBMagicIll td, th.OBMagicIll, td.OBMagicIll {background-color: #0F630F !important;}
table.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys th, tr.OBMagicMys td, th.OBMagicMys, td.OBMagicMys {background-color: #630A63 !important;}
table.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes th, tr.OBMagicRes td, th.OBMagicRes, td.OBMagicRes {background-color: #241A69 !important;}

table.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt th, tr.SRMagicAlt td, th.SRMagicAlt, td.SRMagicAlt {background-color: #B96222 !important;}
table.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon th, tr.SRMagicCon td, th.SRMagicCon, td.SRMagicCon {background-color: #4F3060 !important;}
table.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes th, tr.SRMagicDes td, th.SRMagicDes, td.SRMagicDes {background-color: #595252 !important;}
table.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll th, tr.SRMagicIll td, th.SRMagicIll, td.SRMagicIll {background-color: #5A7711 !important;}
table.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes th, tr.SRMagicRes td, th.SRMagicRes, td.SRMagicRes {background-color: #77680D !important;}

/* classes for race colors, set up same way as magic school colors.
Note these definitions do not include creatures, because then it would just get way too long */
table.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt th, tr.RaceAlt td, th.RaceAlt, td.RaceAlt {background-color: #dfbe00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg th, tr.RaceArg td, th.RaceArg, td.RaceArg {background-color: #86ac01 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos th, tr.RaceBos td, th.RaceBos, td.RaceBos {background-color: #847000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre th, tr.RaceBre td, th.RaceBre, td.RaceBre {background-color: #993365 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun th, tr.RaceDun td, th.RaceDun, td.RaceDun {background-color: #848484 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar th, tr.RaceDar td, th.RaceDar, td.RaceDar {background-color: #5f9ea0 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre th, tr.RaceDre td, th.RaceDre, td.RaceDre {background-color: #b22222 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol th, tr.RaceGol td, th.RaceGol, td.RaceGol {background-color: #ffdd00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp th, tr.RaceImp td, th.RaceImp, td.RaceImp {background-color: #0000ae !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha th, tr.RaceKha td, th.RaceKha, td.RaceKha {background-color: #f39a00 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor th, tr.RaceNor td, th.RaceNor, td.RaceNor {background-color: #00d8d8 !important; color: #000000 !important;}
table.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc th, tr.RaceOrc td, th.RaceOrc, td.RaceOrc {background-color: #118500 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed th, tr.RaceRed td, th.RaceRed, td.RaceRed {background-color: #841a1a !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther th, tr.RaceOther td, th.RaceOther, td.RaceOther {background-color: #000000 !important; color: #FFFFFF !important;}
table.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr th, tr.RaceErr td, th.RaceErr, td.RaceErr {background-color: #bfbfbf !important; color: #000000 !important;}

/* Classes for other standardized themes */

table.attColor th, tr.attColor th, tr.attColor td, th.attColor, td.attColor {background-color: #6f581c !important;}
table.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor th, tr.lGreenColor td, th.lGreenColor, td.lGreenColor {background-color: #003a00 !important;}
.mwtown, th.mwtown { background:#6080AD !important; }

.toc > * > tr > th {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* NavBox coloring */

.OBSettle > * > tr > th, .OBSettle > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow, .EasterEgg > * > tr > th, .EasterEgg > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #447344 !important;
}

.SRhold > * > tr > th, .SRhold > * > tr > td.navbox-abovebelow {
background: #797979 !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th, .LOnav > * > tr > .navbox-abovebelow {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-oddhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-odd {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-evenhlist, .LOnav > * > tr > td.navbox-even {
background-color: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.LOnav > * > tr > th > .navbox-title {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Vector */

.mw-body a.external, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a, div.vectorTabs li.selected a:visited, div.vectorTabs li a {
color: var(--link1);
}

.mw-body a.external:visited, div#mw-panel div.portal div.body ul li a:visited {
color: var(--link2);
}

/* Tab support */

.tabs-frameless .tabs-label {
border-color: var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-tabbox > .tabs-container, .tabs-tabbox > .tabs-input:checked + .tabs-label, .tabs-input-0:checked + .tabs-input-1 + .tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.tabs-label {
background-color: var(--dark1);
border: 1px solid var(--dark1);
}

.tabs-label:hover {
background-color: var(--dark4);
}

/* ajaxRC support */

span#ajaxLoadProgress > img {
padding: 18px 18px 0px 0px;
background-image: url(//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Throbber_allbackgrounds_monochrome.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 2px;
background-size: auto;
width: 2px;
}

#firstHeading {
line-height: 0.975em;
}

/* Dropdown menus support */

.ca-menu {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
border: 1px solid var(--dark5) !important;
}

.ca-menu ul li a {
color: #44a8f4 !important;
text-decoration: none !important;
}

/* Wiki Editor Toolbar */

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar {
background-image: none !important;
background-image: none !important;
background-color: #4d4d4d;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .sections .section,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .pages {
background-color: var(--dark3) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-characters div span,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index .current {
background-color: var(--dark4) !important;
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a.current:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .label {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .tabs span.tab a:visited,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .booklet .index div {
color: var(--link1) !important;
}

.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .page-table td {
color: var(--light1) !important;
}

/* Navpopup support */

ins.popupDiff { background: #B9FFB0; color: black; }

del.popupDiff { background: #FFF890; color: black; }

.selectionPreview { border: 2px solid #DDD; background-color: #EEF; }

.navpopup { border: solid #239ffa 1px; background-color: var(--dark4); color: var(--light1); }

.navpopup > * > * { color: var(--light1); }

.popupDrag { background-color: #239ffa; }

.popup_menu { background: var(--dark4); border:solid 1px grey; top: 0.05em; }

.popup_menu_row { border: solid 1px red; }

.popup_drop:hover .popup_menu, .popup_drop .popup_menu:hover, .popupPreview > * { background: var(--dark4); }

.popup_drop:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f; }

.popup_menu a:hover { background: var(--dark3); color:#44f }

.popup_change_title_link { color: #152; }

.popup_history_row_even { background: var(--dark3); }

.popupPreview a.extiw, .popupPreview a.extiw:active { color: #36b; }

.popupPreview a.external { color: #36b; }

.oo-ui-window-body {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

.codeEditor-status {
background-color: var(--dark2);
}

.oo-ui-windowManager-modal > .oo-ui-dialog {
background-color: var(--dark2_5);
}

.darkMode div#ace_settingsmenu {
color: var(--light1);
background-color: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry:hover {
background-color: var(--dark5_5);
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="text"] {
background-color: var(--dark4);
color: var(--light1);
padding-left: 5px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"],
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"] {
appearance: none;
position: relative;
width: 1rem;
height: 1rem;
border: 1px solid var(--light2);
line-height: 1;
background: var(--dark5);
border-radius: 4px;
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]::before {
position: absolute;
width: 100%;
height: 100%;
left: 1px;
top: 1px;
text-align: center;
white-space: pre;
content: " ";
}

.darkMode .ace_optionsMenuEntry input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before,
.ui-dialog-content input[type="checkbox"]:checked::before {
content: "\2713";
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog.ui-widget-content,
.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane {
background: var(--dark3);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header {
background: var(--dark5);
color: var(--light1);
}

.wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog .ui-widget-header a.ui-dialog-titlebar-close.ui-corner-all,
.ui-dialog-content input:not([type="checkbox"]),
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group-heading,
.wikiEditor-ui-toolbar .group .tool-select .label {
filter: invert(1);
}

.ui-widget-content, .wikiEditor-toolbar-dialog label {
color: var(--light1);
}

.ui-dialog .ui-dialog-buttonpane button {
filter: invert(1);
border: 1px solid;
}

.ui-button-text-only .ui-button-text {
filter:invert(1);
color: var(--light1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail-heading,
.oo-ui-tabSelectWidget {
background: var(--dark1);
}

.darkMode .statue-detail {
background: var(--dark3);
}

.darkMode .lore-statues-navbar {
background-color: var(--dark2) !important;
}

/* Template:Consensus */
.consup {
color: black !important;
background-color: #88d488 !important;
}

.conopp {
color: black !important;
background-color: #b34249 !important;
}

.condef {
color: black !important;
background-color: #C6DBBF !important;
}

/* Special:Preferences */
.client-js #preferences {
background-color: var(--dark3);
}

/* Special:NewPages */
li.not-patrolled {
background-color: #414114;
border: 1px solid;
border-color: var(--dark5);
}

/* Unset for Userboxes to stop overwriting */
.userbox p, .userbox b, .userbox .center {
color: unset;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-header-title.oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted .mw-rcfilters-ui-itemMenuOptionWidget-label-desc,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-savedLinksListWidget-placeholder.oo-ui-optionWidget .oo-ui-labelElement-label,
.mw-rcfilters-ui-viewSwitchWidget label.oo-ui-labelWidget {
color: var(--light2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget[class*=mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuSectionOptionWidget-name],
.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled.oo-ui-tagMultiselectWidget-outlined .oo-ui-tagItemWidget.oo-ui-widget-enabled {
background: var(--dark2) !important;
}

.mw-rcfilters-ui-filterMenuOptionWidget.oo-ui-flaggedElement-muted:not(.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected) {
background: var(--dark5) !important;
}

.oo-ui-tabOptionWidget.oo-ui-optionWidget-selected {
background: var(--dark3);
}

/* dialoouetree */

.dialoguetree-box {
background: var(--dark4);
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
color:#47b1f7;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
color: var(--light1);
}

Module:DialogueTreeSetup

2026-04-01T05:54:46Z

Kiz: doh

local p = {}

function p.main(frame)
local content = frame.args[1] or frame.args.text or ""
if content == "" then
return "No dialogue provided."
end

local lines = mw.text.split(content, "\n")
local output = {}
local inBox = false

for _, rawline in ipairs(lines) do
local line = mw.text.trim(rawline)

if line == "" then
if not inBox then
table.insert(output, " ")
end
else
local isDialogue = line:match("^:") or line:match("^''") or line:match("^'''")

if not isDialogue then
if inBox then
table.insert(output, "</div>")
inBox = false
end
table.insert(output, line)
else
if not inBox then
table.insert(output, '<div class="dialoguetree-box">')
inBox = true
end

-- Single-pass colon counting (much faster)
local indentLevel = 0
local cleanLine = line
local firstNonColon = line:find("[^:]")
if firstNonColon then
indentLevel = firstNonColon - 1
cleanLine = mw.text.trim(line:sub(firstNonColon))
end

local indentEm = indentLevel * 2.0

local styled

if cleanLine:match("^'''") then
local text = mw.text.trim(cleanLine:sub(4))
styled = string.format('<div class ="dialoguetree-line1" style="margin-left:%dem;">%s</div>', indentEm, text)
elseif cleanLine:match("^''") then
local text = mw.text.trim(cleanLine:sub(3))
styled = string.format('<div class="dialoguetree-line2" style="margin-left:%dem;">%s</div>', indentEm, text)
else
styled = string.format('<div class="dialoguetree-line3" style="margin-left:%dem;">%s</div>', indentEm, cleanLine)
end

table.insert(output, styled)
end
end
end

if inBox then
table.insert(output, "</div>")
end

return table.concat(output, "\n")
end

return p

Template:DialogueTreeSetup/styles.css

2026-04-01T05:53:10Z

Kiz: m

.dialoguetree-box {
background: #efe1bc;
border: 1px solid #d0c0a0;
padding: 0.65em 1.1em;
margin: 1.2em 0 1.2em 5%;
max-width: 75%;
line-height: 1.45;
overflow: hidden;
overflow-wrap: break-word;
}

.dialoguetree-line1 {
margin-bottom:0.3em;
color:#0066aa;
font-weight:bold;
}

.dialoguetree-line2 {
margin-bottom:0.3em;
color:#000000;
font-style:italic;
}

.dialoguetree-line3 {
margin-bottom:0.3em;
}

Module:DialogueTreeSetup

2026-04-01T05:51:33Z

Kiz: + classes

local p = {}

function p.main(frame)
local content = frame.args[1] or frame.args.text or ""
if content == "" then
return "No dialogue provided."
end

local lines = mw.text.split(content, "\n")
local output = {}
local inBox = false

for _, rawline in ipairs(lines) do
local line = mw.text.trim(rawline)

if line == "" then
if not inBox then
table.insert(output, " ")
end
else
local isDialogue = line:match("^:") or line:match("^''") or line:match("^'''")

if not isDialogue then
if inBox then
table.insert(output, "</div>")
inBox = false
end
table.insert(output, line)
else
if not inBox then
table.insert(output, '<div class=".dialoguetree-box">')
inBox = true
end

-- Single-pass colon counting (much faster)
local indentLevel = 0
local cleanLine = line
local firstNonColon = line:find("[^:]")
if firstNonColon then
indentLevel = firstNonColon - 1
cleanLine = mw.text.trim(line:sub(firstNonColon))
end

local indentEm = indentLevel * 2.0

local styled

if cleanLine:match("^'''") then
local text = mw.text.trim(cleanLine:sub(4))
styled = string.format('<div class =".dialoguetree-line1" style="margin-left:%dem;">%s</div>', indentEm, text)
elseif cleanLine:match("^''") then
local text = mw.text.trim(cleanLine:sub(3))
styled = string.format('<div class=".dialoguetree-line2" style="margin-left:%dem;">%s</div>', indentEm, text)
else
styled = string.format('<div class=".dialoguetree-line3" style="margin-left:%dem;">%s</div>', indentEm, cleanLine)
end

table.insert(output, styled)
end
end
end

if inBox then
table.insert(output, "</div>")
end

return table.concat(output, "\n")
end

return p

Template:DialogueTreeSetup

2026-04-01T05:44:39Z

Kiz: restore /style.css

{{#css:Template:DialogueTreeSetup/styles.css}}{{#invoke:DialogueTreeSetup|main|{{{1|}}}}}

Template:DialogueTreeSetup/styles.css

2026-04-01T05:43:13Z

Kiz: Kiz moved page Template:DialogueTree/styles.css to Template:DialogueTreeSetup/styles.css without leaving a redirect: match template name

.uesp-dialogue-box {
background: #efe1bc;
border: 1px solid #d0c0a0;
padding: 0.65em 1.1em;
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UESPWiki:Community Portal

2026-04-01T05:15:40Z

Kiz: /* Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace */ cmt

{{protection|move=full}}{{Trail}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Message Boards]]<div style="float:right;">{{Scrolling Archive Table|class=collapsible collapsed|height=225px|width=225px
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This is the '''Community Portal''', the main discussion forum for community-wide discussions about [[UESPWiki:About|UESP]]'s operations, policies, design, and improvement.

All members of the community are welcome to contribute to this page. Please sign and date your post by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar. If you would like to start a new post, please place it at the bottom of the page with a two-tier (==) heading.

'''Before starting a discussion here''', please review the other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.
<table id="genMidColor" style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:
{{Bullet Link|[[:Category:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]|A list of policies and guidelines, which each have individual pages; their talk pages are the best place to discuss these policies (see [[#Active Discussions|Active Discussions]] for links to active policy discussions).}}
{{Bullet Link|Administrator Noticeboard|If you have a request that requires an [[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrator]], you may want to post your comments there.}}
{{Bullet Link|Deletion Review|An area to discuss controversial page deletions and reach a consensus.}}
{{Bullet Link|Reference Desk|This is the best place for questions about how to play Elder Scrolls games.}}
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In addition, past discussions from the Community Portal can be found at:
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</td></tr></table>

;<big>Active Discussions</big>
Many discussions of community-wide interest are held on pages other than the community portal. Discussions about specific policies belong on the policy talk pages, for example. The following table lists other discussions that are currently in progress on other talk pages. If you start a discussion on another talk page, please add it to this list. If a discussion listed here has been inactive (i.e., no comments of any type in at least a week), please remove it from the list.

{| class="wikitable"
! Location !! Date started !! Topic !! Listed here by

|-
| [[Template_talk:Online_Quest_Header#Storyline_Parameter|Online Quest Header]] || 5/19/2025 || Storyline Parameter|| [[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]]
|-
|}

== Port Starfield Place Logic ==

Currently NPCs have a "loc" field which is text and is typically a link to a location. There is a desire to build automatic "People" tables which are derived from data so that we move away from large templates to represent the people in a location. In Starfield wiki, there is a "In Place" template which populates the Metatemplate variables with information about the place, and then this data is pulled by the Starfield People tables.

The In Place template is used extensively in various summary templates (like NPC Summary, where it replaces the loc parameter), however it can be used independently if an NPC can appear in multiple places.

* [https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Template:In_Place In Place Template]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Autopeople Autopeople template, which uses the data]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Starfield:Cydonia_People&action=edit Example Usage]

While copying over this logic is very simple, migration of current NPC pages is a much larger task which will likely be mostly manual. For example, many NPCs only have their primary location on their summary page, however each location that they can appear (temples, inns, etc) will also have the NPC information on it. All of this data would need to be consolidated to the NPC table for the data to be consistent.

In addition to this, to have automated People tables, a "Services" parameter will need to be added to the NPC pages, however that is a much more minor change.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]])
: The notion of all of that information being duplicated as is sounds like a ringing endorsement for changing it so it's in only one place to me.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]])

::I think this makes sense - anything that reduces duplication is a good plan. Looks like "place" in the Starfield NPC Summary wraps the In Place template but is still overridden when "loc" is defined, so nothing would break immediately and we can take the time to decide which things do and don't need to be edited. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:57, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::In Starfield Wiki, I just kinda migrated one list of people at a time to have place and be auto-generated, until I ran out of lists to migrate. It was a pretty clean transition. Also added a category (Starfield-NPCs_Without_Place) to try to figure out where the rest were as many were not on any People lists. It certainly doesn't have to be some big "Do it quick as everything is broken until it's done" kind of transition.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]]) 21:39, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::: I don't like this suggestion as-is. The "loc" parameter is not strictly defined enough to be useable for auto-populating People tables. See for instance the [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online:Molag_Kena&oldid=3381525 rich formatting] on [[Online:Molag Kena]]. If we already need to add a "Services" parameter to pages for this to work, then we need a second, stricter location parameter as well. To me, that seems like too much work to replace what is currently there. I don't see any issue with manually populating our People tables as desired, particularly when most of our namespaces have a (fairly arbitrary) "People vs NPCs" distinction. Those tables are not hard to maintain and are pretty much static for the older games. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::I agree with Legoless. We should at least try this on the test wiki before implementing anything, particularly with regards to ESO: we distinguish between generic NPCs and non-generics. Generic NPCs don't go in the People table in Online articles, they're typically noted in the paragraph following the infobox. Additionally, the loc field is not a reliable place for us to be getting headers for People tables: some NPCs in towns and such have very specific and arbitrary locations, like "West of (CityName's Stable)". Like Legoless said, the rich text throws a wrench in there. It's often necessary rich text, too. We also can't just pull strictly from Online links in the loc parameter to sort NPCs under People table headings: some NPCs have stuff like "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" in their loc parameter. That's two Online links in the loc parameter: would the automated process try to put the NPC under both places, or make a new header? "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" is a very arbitrary and limited heading, and while we often do file NPCs under arbitrary and specific headings, it's much easier to manage them when People pages are created manually.

:::::ESO's People pages are also mostly finished: yes, new content is being developed yearly, but there aren't a lot of NPCs who need to be put on a people table at this point. Most of the legwork lies in putting the People tables from smaller locations like [[Online:Fharun Stronghold|Fharun Stronghold]] on their own pages. I do appreciate the effort to try and make things easier, but this could hurt more than it helps. If this were suggested earlier in ESO's lifespan, I'd have less objections to it, but at this point, it seems unnecessary to port everything like this when the system we already have works. —[[User:MolagBallet|MolagBallet]] ([[User talk:MolagBallet|talk]]) 15:31, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

== Item Redesign Project Proposal ==

Hello, I'd like to discuss a project I've worked on a little bit on my own, but would like to greatly expand and formalize a little. The Item Redesign Project would aim to fill in the largest gap remaining in UESP coverage of The Elder Scrolls as a whole, and the most requested area of coverage the UESP regularly receives from readers. This will also benefit the UESP itself by improving its SEO. Most of the pages that would be worked on or created for this project would help UESP be more easily found by people searching, as sites that don't have specific pages rank low compared to ones that do. We'd essentially be starting to compete for item page rankings finally.

The focus of this project will be documenting, expanding, improving, and creating pages related to items. There are multiple steps to this, and multiple things to consider.

The overall goal would be to move away from just having list articles, to having actual articles for items, along with maintaining and improving existing lists, while also creating more. Most of this work will be for Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO, but other games may be worth considering for this project.

===First Steps===
The first goal towards this will be a bot run to mark existing item pages as in the scope of this project, and considered for making sure it will match our site standards for items and standardize them. There will also be a series of bot run to create new start articles. I personally was against this recently, but an argument from Legoless really opened my eyes to why we should consider doing this. If we had made these pages years ago, we'd have had years worth of edits to improve upon them. If you (the UESP) build(s) it, they (editors) will come. There is just an extra degree of unwillingness for a person to create a page from scratch over improving an existing page. Take for instance [[Lore:Nerevarine]], an article about a fairly important character in Elder Scrolls lore, who did not have an actual lore page before last year. But after I decided to throw a blurb from [[Lore:Hero]] onto its own article, roughly 2k bytes of text, it has expanded greatly into 50k bytes of text. By simply creating an actual article, editors showed up who wanted that to be a better one.

So this means this process will ultimately involve:

*The creation of a project page for the Item Redesign Project
*Creation of a redesign template similar to previous ones for other redesign project (like [[UESPWiki:Oblivion NPC Redesign Project|OBNCRP]]).
*Creation of a [[UESPWiki:Style Guide|Style Guide]] page for items
*A series of bot runs to add the template to pages.
*A series of bot runs to create the new individual item pages.
===Item Page Improvement===
The ultimate goal of each indivdual item page will be:

*Provide a physical description of the item
*Take a picture of the item
*Present technical information (primarily through infoboxes)
*Have any enchanting-related information covered
*Cover any particularly unique strategies/options/features of the item
*Find and list any dialogue related to it
*Provide use information on the item (one existing example of this information can be found on [[Morrowind:Broom]] as an example)

I think this should ultimately create a high standard of content that is reasonably achievable by editors.
===List Pages===
[[File:MW-item-War Axes.jpg|thumb|right|An example of a group image, useful for a list page]]We can also provide improvements for list pages, primarily by identifying gaps in what people might want for list articles. For example, there was not a list for [[Oblivion:Longswords|Longswords in Oblivion]] and a few similar topics until the recent work of Eve and Leopard. These definitely make sense as a target for lists, and there are certainly more like these out there still. One other example comes from [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild Armor Set]], which I created towards trying to present a high quality page that lists all relevant information related to an item set. It provides images of the set, how to acquire it, a condensed table with info on the set, common info related to all items, and then the individual pages for each item of the set. I think this would be a good standard for any similar set of equipment in the mainline games.

In general, I think the steps towards improving list pages would include:
*Identifying missing list pages that may be desirable
*Providing general information about the list (for example, providing UESP editor written descriptions for [[Morrowind:Base Weapons]] instead of just using NPC quotes)
*Providing unique image(s) for the list (like a group set for whole sets of items similar to Morrowind efforts)

===Some Existing Pain Spots===
I also think some focus should be given to some existing pain spots. For example something that I would see as part of this would be the individual item pages for [[Online:Furnishings]]. A tremendous amount of fantastic work has been done to get these pages as documented as they are, and it is by itself one of the single biggest segments of the UESP Wiki making up almost a fourteenth of the UESP's existing page count. One of the main ways these pages could be improved is by having editors help add prose descriptions to them. Virtually every ESO furnishing has an image and infobox, but not a physical description of the item written. One step towards this could be another botrun providing a very basic description, hopefully indicating to people that one is desired. For example, one suggestion provided by The Rim of the Sky:

''<x> is a <size> <type> furnishing item in the <category> category. It is available from <main source> and other sources.''

This should be doable by a botrun. A further one written by a human is still desirable, here is an example I put together on [[Online:Petrified Watcher]].

The other major existing pain spot to my knowledge is the individual item pages for Blades. It's nice that Blades is as documented as it is, but we should be able to do a similar bot run for these items as well, and likewise getting human touch ups for the actual description. I did a few tests, [[Blades:Chaurus_Helmet_(divine)|one example]], that may be considered for both developing the bot run text as well as a minor example of human-based additions that could improve these pages.

===Final Thoughts===
This will ultimately be a very big undertaking, but starting this project will be worth it to finally fill in one of the last major gaps of UESP coverage. It will also be one of the most truly substantial bumps we can give ourselves on the SEO front. This proposal will hopefully serve as a good starting point towards the standardization of item pages, as well as for discussion about this proposed project itself. Obviously any insight or suggestions from any editors would be greatly appreciated, and I hope this is a project that the UESP will want to take part in!

One of the bigger considerations for a very significant amount of the work on the project is related to the bot side of this. I have spoken with a few people ([[User:Daveh|Daveh]] and [[User:RobinHood70|RobinHood70]]) about assisting with this project via data pulls and bot runs, and both gave pretty hopeful answers about potentially assisting us in getting those done. Use data for Morrowind, for example, has already been created, and similar bot runs have been performed before. This will give this project a decent head start towards its final goal.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you wish to join this project! --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:35, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:I have long been in support for individual item pages and fully support this proposal. Despite what some have suggested I believe it is genuinely much more helpful and not simply a means of "competing" with other wikis. It is such a useful thing that can be helpful in giving more detailed descriptions of locations and other data that I have occasionally been forced to use other wikis for when our lists weren't adequate. Of course another helpful thing will be having images of individual items. Many times have I found myself needing a picture of a specific weapon or armor piece only to see that it only exists in a group picture.
:Anyways, I digress, I support the proposal! - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 04:43, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::I'd like to add my support as well, individual item pages would be great! --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 04:50, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I'm onboard with this project. I think it has merit, even if it's not how things have been done in the past. Anything we can do to add more content, without hindering usability, should be seriously considered. The SEO side of this shouldn't be understated; if it's going to make an appreciable difference, then it needs to happen. The scope is large, but that doesn’t necessarily make it unmanageable.
:::*A focused project design page that lays out clear examples and provides the groundwork for necessary templates and transclusions will be crucial to its success.
:::*Page creation will also need to be a key focus. Having a good base page so that those without knowledge of the project page can add information without their work going to waste is important. This will help reduce the overall work those that do know about the project may have to do. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 05:05, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::: I have long been in favour of individual item pages for the reason mentioned above by AKB: by failing to create them, we have lost out on years of crowdsourced help with tackling this daunting task. Creating these pages has been a prominent suggestion from readers since our [[UESPWiki:Survey Results/Other Comments|2012 user survey]] at the earliest. I like UESP's existing item lists for navigation, but there's never been anything stopping us from simply adding item links to those existing tables.

::::: On the above proposal, I do feel it isn't necessary to have a dialogue check on every item page when 90%+ will not have any relevant dialogue associated with them. We had discussions in the past on where best to document dialogue (quest vs NPC pages), and I think we settled on NPC pages as the home for dialogue / dialogue checks. It's an extra piece of work for editors to confirm "no" on thousands of items. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:39, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::Sounds good to me! Proper descriptions, images and location information I think would be the main reader benefit. For list pages, ideally we would be able to pull info to them from the individual pages with things like <nowiki>{{#listsaved:}}</nowiki> rather than duplicating the info on multiple pages. Regarding dialogue specifically, I also don't really think that would be necessary unless it's something like the Savant quote from Morrowind which talks about that item specifically. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:30, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I just want to say that I fully support this project and the ideas that have been presented so far. Although I don't have any suggestions, I too believe that it would vastly improve how item information is presented compared to the current format, and I look forward to seeing how this project progresses. —[[User:Leopard|Leopard]] ([[User talk:Leopard|talk]]) 14:54, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I support this project and absolutely hope and pray there will be at least a base templated sentence we can input for Furnishings, as this is a huge section as stated above. At one time, I had dreams of making each furnishing page quite robust, but not everyone had been in favor of it. Thankfully, more editors are starting to help fill in these gaps and the oft-underused sections of the Online Furnishing Summary template can now be used! '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 16:13, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} While I agree with the need for separate item pages for useful items (weapons, armor, decorations, etc), I want to call out one set of items that I believe should NOT get separate pages. ESO Contraband Items I do not believe would be helped by having separate pages. We already do really well in this regard with our updated lists, and the items don't really have any additional information that the lists provide. One thing I think we CAN do better in this regard are better pages on the contraband TYPES. Which NPCs are the sources of which contraband types, information on likelihood of drops based on difficulty, etc. In addition, I don't think we need separate pages for each part of the ESO armor styles (i.e. we don't need a separate page for Altmer Style Shoulders, Altmer Style Belt, etc.) The existing pages for Styles could be improved, namely by moving the pictures of the entire outfit from the gallery into the lead (or into the infobox maybe). There might be other types of items where a separate page doesn't really make sense, but I'd have to look into it. Off the top of my head, having separate pages for, say, Rubedite Ore and Rubedite Ingots, or for some of the junk items in ESO. The MMO nature of the game, I think, changes things for many of these item types. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:11, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:Oh yes, I 100% agree ESO should be more of an exception due to the way the game works. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 17:22, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::A much needed change. Before I edited the wiki I was a frequent user, and it was one of my common complaints that individual item pages did not exist. Like Jeancey mentioned, some exceptions should exist.[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 01:13, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

:: I support the change, certainly helpful for many item lists, but I do agree, that some lists such as eso's contraband should stay the way it is.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 13:16, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

::: From an seo standpoint, every item should have its own page. Google lists us lower or even will list the wrong page when we don't have that. I've posted examples in the discord before. List pages aren't going away, but there's nothing wrong with having the info in both a list and on a page. This also allows for us to add more info like pictures of locations, maps where the items can be found, etc. [[User:Eckserah|Eckserah]] ([[User talk:Eckserah|talk]]) 16:13, 12 July 2025 (UTC)

== Honorary Featured Status -- Julian LeFay ==

Julian LeFay has passed away. While it is not normal procedure, I would like to propose that we grant his article honorary status as a featured article and bump it to the front page immediately. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:40, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
: I'm all for this. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:: Seconding this, the page has enough content but hopefully we can improve it in any way we can to better honor him. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::: I agree, there are few who've had as much of an impact on these games as he had and it would be a neat way to honour him. [[User:Theolaa|Theolaa]] ([[User talk:Theolaa|talk]]) 05:00, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::: Yes, of course. RIP [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 05:32, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::: Agreed.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 09:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Agree [[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 10:16, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Agree.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:52, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Featuring it now on the front page sounds like a great idea. I'm not sure what you mean by "honorary featured status", but whether or not it fits the quality of a Featured Article should be decided later, at a time when it can be considered fairly against the criteria, so it should not be categorised or starred as a Featured Article. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:03, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: I agree. In whichever way it should be done. But at the least, immediately. '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 14:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::: Agreed. [[User:The Entity|The Entity]] ([[User talk:The Entity|talk]]) 14:44, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Please do it. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 14:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} The [[Main Page/Featured Article|featured article]] has now been changed to Julian LeFay. Would we also like to change the Featured Image to [[Lore:Julianos|Julianos]], who was named after Julian? I would vote we display the [[:File:MER-art-The Hierophant.jpg|tarot card art]] for that, since this would be an honorary FI and the tarot card can't usually be nominated due to standard FI rules, the card itself having some really great artwork. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:23, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, sounds fitting -- [[User:SarthesArai|SarthesArai]] [[User Talk:SarthesArai|Talk]] 19:09, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:: +1 to snowball the Julianos FI. 20:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

::: +1 Julianos FI, but I might pick the TES2 statue instead since that was Julian's game. But either would be lovely. --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 21:24, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} Both the FA and FI have now been updated in honor of Julian, and will remain this way for at least the next month.
It is good that we are able to pay tribute to him like this, as I don't believe many of the more casual TES fans even knew who he was. His death didn't get a lot of coverage outside of TES circles either. As the creator of one of the most popular video game series and influential fantasy worlds of contemporary times, he should definitely get more credit for his legacy, and I don't feel like just one month is enough. I would like to propose that we also update some of the site logos and wordmarks to have the subtitle "In Memory Of Julian LeFay (1965 - 2025)" or some variation of it, similar to how the Ben 10 Wiki honors one of the show creators annually in their wiki wordmark:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/e/e6/Site-logo.png/revision/20240701050232 (Check [https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Site-logo.png file history] in case link is broken)

We can put this right under the "Elder Scrolls Pages" part of our main logo. Along with [[General:Vijay Lakshman|Vijay Lakshman]], [[General:Ted Peterson|Ted Peterson]], [[General:Christopher Weaver|Christopher Weaver]], Julian is one of the few people who can be credited with co-creating the franchise this wiki is based on. In the words of Bethesda Christopher Weaver, ''"If I’m credited with giving birth to The Elder Scrolls, then Julian deserves credit as the one who fathered it."'' He still had more ideas he wanted to share on the Wayward Realms and was taken from us too soon. I propose that we add this to the wordmark until at least the end of 2025 so that more people can remember him and learn just how much he did for the series. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 20:00, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

:I'd be for the idea absolutely. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 20:06, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

::I would suggest the [[MediaWiki:Tagline|Tagline]] and maybe the [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]], rather than the logo. That would work better for screen readers as well, which can't read text if put in an image. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:39, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::Hmm, something else we could do is grab the Julian LeFay entry from [[Main Page/Did You Know|Did You Know]] and take it out of the random selection so it's permanent, rather than part of the cycle. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:50, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

::::As a reader of the UESP, in my opinion Sitenotice would be the least invasive option while also not modifying the branding like the "Your source for The Elder Scrolls..." blurb. Messing with the logo wouldn't be ideal in my opinion since the text already on it is hard to clearly read on some smaller devices as it is since its colors blend into the logo like they do already. More text on the logo would just make it look more cluttered and muddy in my opinion. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 13:35, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I think putting the LeFay entry in the DYK blurb for the rest of the year could be a good move. I'm not on board with Sitenotice as a substitute since its purpose is in the name of being a Notice, any "notice" related to this would be the news article, unless we know what to link in the notice like say [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefay-passes-away-at-59 Imperial Library's touching tribute] I don't think its the best option. Tagline is also minimal since the font is tiny and most people just tune it out of their purview, so while I don't see it as a substitute I could see us doing something with it as well. Any concerns about the colors on the logo are solved by just making it white text with a black outline, and any concerns about it being small could be solved by making increasing the font size. Its not really about putting in everyone's face, its about modifying something consistent and sitewide to honor someone who was very important to us to show just how much they meant. We're still working on some logo mock-ups but we should have some options ready soon. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Suggestion to ban the usage of ai text generation for lore articles. ==

As we all know we are in the age of AI generation where AI has come along way and given there has been people, using ai for stuff in lore pages. With one user admitting to such in the altmer lore talk page. This could become problematic if its not addressed, its one thing to use ai for correcting grammar but to write lore page sections. I feel it like, downgrades the integrity of the uesp. So I recommend a total ban on using ai for such purposes and having a rule against the usage of ai. This spoken from a user that uses toolbarz website to generate my own ai stories but I have not once used ai to write stuff on lore articles or the uesp, using ai stuff on ones own user pages or fanfiction pages is fine but not on lore articles. There is a place for ai but I think people should be the main contributors not robots when it comes to informantion placed on lore pages. Since I've seen no sign of such a suggestion, I'm adding it in.[[User:TheVampKnight|TheVampKnight]] ([[User talk:TheVampKnight|talk]]) 01:40, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:I agree with banning the use of AI to write articles. Using AI to spellcheck is one thing, but using AI to write original prose is a big no. Right now it is nowhere near advanced enough to write about TES lore with accuracy. On top of that, the flow of AI writing never sounds natural. A lot of AI usage is also theft, since AI only knows how to copy and rearrange things, not create anything of substance. It has no place on wiki articles. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 01:53, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::AI, like Daedra, cannot create, only imitate, so I vote "strictly no AI slop in wiki content namespaces". [[User:DaExile|DaExile]] ([[User talk:DaExile|talk]]) 02:02, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::: I think we need to follow Wikipedia's (draft) policy on [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AI-generated content|AI-generated content]]: "Because of the pervasive presence of [LLMs] in everyday tools it is not possible to ban it entirely", but "[p]ersistently introducing computer-generated content in violation of Wikipedia policies and guidelines will be considered disruptive editing and can lead to a block from further editing."

::: The problem is that we have no way to know if someone is using AI to generate content as opposed to format/reword/spellcheck their own work. If an editor is continuously adding slop or hallucinated info to articles, we can treat it like any other form of disruptive editing. It's just one more thing we need to be conscious of when checking new edits. Unfortunately, it's a tricky one to spot. One of the telltale signs (like on [[Lore:Altmer]]) is the addition of massive amounts of well-written prose, often containing misinformation or poor/inaccurate citation. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:13, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::: Fully on board to ban it. Even if it can be hard to tell sometimes, it should be fully purged when detected. And when we have proof of a user using it (such as admitting to it) action should be taken. Removal of the AI generated prose and the usual warning into action system the UESP admins take would sound fair to me. Furthermore though, whilst I know we currently know of at least one user using AI generation, retroactive action should not be taken against them. Only if it continues. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:29, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I disagree, not because I think AI usage is good, but I think we already have policies in place that police the bad behavior that AI causes. We have rules against blatantly false information in articles, like AI hallucinations. We have standards of grammar and spelling. We have standards that articles should be easily comprehensible. I just don't see how "AI is now banned" is really useful in any way, when all of the things that AI does poorly are already covered by existing policy. However, but banning it, we run into problems with assuming good faith, when one person claims another user is using AI and the other user claims they aren't. How do you PROVE they are using AI, or are just bad/inserting headcanon into articles (which is, again, already against our policies). This is a situation where it seems like a good policy, but then doesn't really have any impact at all. We shouldn't be adding policies just to make ourselves feel like we are doing something. There just isn't a real problem here. One user used AI but we've already been dealing with it under existing policies. If that user continues to use AI (or otherwise add in blatantly false information), there are ways to deal with that, up to and including blocking that user from the wiki for repeatedly adding false information to the wiki.

:::::I just don't see what the problem is that this policy is trying to solve. We just don't have a rash of AI edits that wouldn't otherwise be not okay under existing policies... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:50, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::A first step will be to officially declare our policy to be against it so no one unknowingly somehow thinks it's a good idea. Beyond that, we should indeed want to err on the side of inaction. We don't want to witch hunt AI text or erroneously accuse people of it just because they like em dashes or something. But yeah, if they admit it, if they have no defense for bad info, etc., I'm all for removing any such edits with a sledgehammer.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:04, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I'm more in line with the views of Jeancy and Legoless here. There is very little we can do to know that it is generated content and also remain true to assume good faith. I personally also think that soon this kind of generation will be indistinguishable from human writing and any policy will be impossible to police. I know it's not a very popular opinion but AI is here, it's not going away, and it's only going to get better faster than anyone is ready for. The only path forward from my point of view is a path that outlines the responsible integration of human assisted AI generated material and not outright bans. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 19:00, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I also think banning it outright is impractical since it's not really enforceable. While articles ideally shouldn't include AI generated content (not just lore articles, any articles), I think Wikipedia's (draft) policy is still enough, as it already covers the core issues - biased, not verifiable, poor quality, inaccurate - and we don't really need to say any more than that. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:32, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::I agree with Legoless that we should largely use Wikipedia's policy. Regardless of how enforceable the policy is, we definitely need a formal rule against AI writing so that we can ensure that it is not encouraged from here on out, and so that we can remove any writing confirmed to be AI-written instead of having to keep proofreading and editing it into something salvageable. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Verified Creation Psuedospace Consolidation and potential Namespace ==

As previously discussed [[Project:Community Portal/Archive 60#Change to Verified Creation Namespace Initials|here]], there had been talks to change up the naming system for Verified Creations. It looks like we previously settled on just doing three letter prefixes, as seen with Blood and Snow (ie. a file named [[:File:BaS-npc-Rakoslod.png|BaS-npc-Rakoslod]]). However, an issue with this is that there's now a lot more Verified Creations than there were before, so much so that they're getting pumped out at a faster rate than we can come up with Psuedospaces for them. Another issue is that its hard to find these images in one place, as they all start with different prefixes. Its dysfunctional for each mod to get its own prefix when the Skyrim DLCs don't even have that any more. I propose we add VC5 in front of each of these photos so that they can more easily be searched up. They can keep the psuedospace prefix as well if desired, such as the aforementioned file which would be renamed to <code>VC5-BaS-npc-Rakoslod</code>, but going forward we would no longer have to invent and decide on a psuedospace suffix for every new VC (ie. if there's a Verified Creation that's very small in content we could just name the file "VC5-npc-Gary" if we feel like that's all it requires and call it a day, instead of the ''need'' to invent a new prefix). We would only have to come up with new psuedospaces if we find that a VC is big enough to benefit from one.

The current tally of VCs per year (8 in 2023, 50 in 2024, and 100 in 2025 so far) comes out to roughly 158 VCs total since the program launched. Each VC has different content, but they are all tied together by being part of the Verified Creator Program. Do we also want to give Verified Creations their own namespace, similar to Better Cities and Tamriel Rebuilt? Or do we just want to keep them in Skyrim Modspace? [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 23:56, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

:I think a proper Skyrim Verified Creations space would be a good way to corral them all. One downside to using multiple prefixes that I would anticipate is that a lot of files are going to be incorrectly named. Having them in one place to verify will be helpful. Additionally, seeing as how there are 100+ this year alone, agreeing on psuedospace prefixes is going to become tedious at best or simply ignored without any consensus. I'm not saying I am opposed to pseudospace prefixes; they will be great to help identify what VC they belong to. I think we should get an official consensus here on how to name them going forward so that the process is avoided. Something like use the first 3 letters of each word in the name and if there are not 3 words then some alternative solution. The same goes for what happens if multiple would have the same prefix. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 01:21, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::Given the sheer volume we're dealing with, it will quickly become hard to find unique 3-letter prefixes that actually represent the creation in question (as opposed to simply assigning random codes). Best to reserve them for the larger ones.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Regarding pseudospaces in general, that was agreed during the creation of the Modspace Project to be all or nothing to ensure consistency; i.e. all mods get pseudospaces, or none do, otherwise we have double standards. (My preference would still be for none, but the consensus in the previous discussion was for all.) For as long as VC5 stays in SRMod, I think that consistency needs to remain, but if VC5 had its own namespace, then we could theoretically define a separate standard for that namespace.

:::On file prefixes specifically, which are related but separate to psuedospaces, I would suggest the same thing I suggested last time - VC5 and three additional characters. That removes any potential conflict with future releases and gives us over 17500 unique IDs. But that doesn't mean every pseudospace has to have a prefix anyway. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:12, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::On a somewhat related note, I think we're violating the spirit of modspace anyway by having so many red links and landing pages for all these VCs without actually documenting any of the content. We're a wiki, not a database - we don't need to be duplicating all the description pages that already exist on BethNet, we need to be detailing the content and gameplay, otherwise there's no point. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:22, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Being incomplete violates nothing. But yes, I think I get what you mean to say. We want more content like [[Skyrim Mod:Spelltome Craft|Spelltome Craft]] and less that is either absent or a stub that has no unique info of great merit. That said, the list itself is of great use to many since Bethesda's own ways to list the program's offerings are ... lacking.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{Edit Conflict}} I'm neutral on keeping psuedospaces, just as long VC5 is used to start all file names that would be the most important thing. The psuedospaces add a small benefit of making them easier to categorize so as long as we don't make them a requirement and more of an optional thing, they could work. As for the pages themselves, we shouldn't be duplicating descriptions and just leaving the pages like that, they definitely need editing and to have at bare minimum intros added to them. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 21:49, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::The [[UESPWiki:Mod|Modspace Guidelines]] literally say that we're supposed to document content, not delivery. If the above number is accurate, we have documented delivery of some 150 mods, while we only have details of content for about 20. Meanwhile, 92 are redlinks and don't even have their own pages. At what point would it be considered a violation of those guidelines? They certainly aren't "content-focused" at the moment if less than 15% of the documentation actually includes any content. Anything we're documenting should at least have a landing page like [[Skyrim Mod:SWIFT|SWIFT]], [[Skyrim Mod:The Forgotten City|The Forgotten City]], [[Skyrim Mod:ESO Imports|ESO Imports]] or [[Skyrim Mod:Wyrmstooth|Wyrmstooth]].

::::::Note that I'm only arguing for parity here - if we are now saying that it's acceptable for less than 15% of modspace to actually include documentation of mods' content and for more than 50% of mods listed to not even have their own articles, we'll rewrite the guidelines to that effect and continue creating a list of redlinks for free mods as well (which someone has already been doing), even if we never expect them to have any content documentation. Alternatively, if we follow the guidelines as intended, any redlinks on both lists should be deleted until such a time as someone actually starts documenting that mod. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 00:42, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Never. We have a drastically different interpretation of those guidelines. Nothing I see there even begins to suggest deleting redlinks to make site content even less complete. And again, even if much of the page is redlinks we merely hope will be fleshed out in time, that alone has frequently proven to be extremely useful and popular. Someone with access to view numbers can help provide data here if desired. Further, these redlinks have successfully proved to be helpful prompts for others to build the associated pages, especially since the list is semi protected. So perhaps those guidelines should be addended in such a way that reiterates our more clearly stated policy that perfection is not required and the fundamentally iterative nature of the site as a whole.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:56, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Agreed. Primarily it's the "Completing Articles" guideline that is the issue here, and I would be very happy to take that out and/or completely reword it to encourage iterative improvement over time, rather than suggesting that we ideally need to plan out a complete article from the start to avoid indefinite stubs. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:38, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

== Please undelete this page: Lore:Fascist ==

I'm [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides]]. I lost my password in a recent incident involving my password manager, leaving me logged out of my account. This is not the reason I am making this post. I noticed a mistaken deletion of a page, Lore:Fascist, within 18 hours of creation. This was not in line with the 7 days required under the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Policy]] for proposed deletion. This isn't just a deletion — this is an unexplained removal of information from UESP wiki. I hope we can fix this error by undeleting [[Lore:Fascist]] as soon as possible. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 11:07, 13 August 2025 (UTC)
:Administrators are allowed to delete pages before the typical 7 days if they feel the page is vandalism, nonsense, or similar, so I believe that's why it didn't stay up for the full 7 days that the Proposed Deletion tag normally requires. While the page is neither vandalism nor nonsense per se, it does feel like a forced attempt to introduce the concept of fascism where it's virtually non-existent in the game. Even when creating the page, you were only able to find a single in-universe instance of the word and one out-of-universe example. That's not really worth creating a Lore page for in my opinion.

:If you feel like you can flesh it out to the point where it might merit becoming a Lore page, I'm willing to restore it and move it to a subpage of your User page, but that's about as much as I'd be willing to do, personally. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

:: As I explained [[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides#Lore:Fascist|here]], the deleted article contained little of substance, and your previous account's edits seem more like an attempt to insert real-world political science into articles than a genuine effort to document fascism in TES lore. Another seven days would not have improved the case to retain such a page. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

::: RobinHood70, I appreciate your offer. While I revise the page — incorporating feedback to build consensus — I’d be glad for you to move and subpage Lore:Fascist as needed. Consensus matters to me, which is why I’m disappointed by the push to shut down discussion that could have occurred over those seven days. It’s odd — and counter to wiki principles — to assume no one might weigh in during that time. These discussions should have happened on [[Lore talk:Fascist]]. Nonetheless, I understand that editors feel that Lore:Fascist might have too little content. I hope to rework it into a larger, broader, subject page once it is restored and undeleted. Thank you. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 07:05, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::My issue is that it would be hard to even turn into a large page without speculation or overly relying on real-world comparisons. I think the page could exist only if it was a tiny stub given its only mentioned once. And at most maybe applies to a group through dev comments. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 13:23, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Agreed. I don't know what the content of the page was, but I don't see how a lore page can be created based on a single throwaway line of dialogue from a single quest that you can only hear with a certain disposition value. The whole point of a lore page is to explain a concept, and there is nothing here to generate a concept which can then be explained. If the NPC had instead said ''"That welxist pig killed those people"'', would we create a Lore:Welxist page, despite knowing nothing of that concept beyond that single line? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:37, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Yeah I don't see much in the way of value being added by restoring this page. Keep it deleted. This is a real-world topic that can easily be justified as being a direct English translation for our sake as the player, rather than an actual term in-lore and in Tamrielic languages as a concept. Without any other content to cover, this page serves little purpose except to act as a potential lightning rod for controversy and edit wars. [[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 15:38, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I concur that the page should have been deleted. We could have started a talk page about it, but the discussion on it would likely go the same way this portal post is going right now. While I'm not inherently against the concept of a page about fascism, the fact that there's so little info on fascism (or political ideologies in general) within TES means that there's no way to write an actual article about it without massive amounts of speculation and connecting the dots with stuff that is subjectively fascist. Its like creating "Lore:Genetics" based on a few mentions of geneology; irl concepts like biology don't necessarily fit as a main backdrop in TES. If there was more info from the games on it, then I might have been on board, but since there isn't we don't really have any option but to have deleted that page. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:14, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} I also agree that it was right to delete the page, but in the interests of offering Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II a chance to prove it can be brought up to Lore page standards, I've restored it to [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II/Fascist|a sandbox]]. I'm using [[Lore:Sex]] as a guideline here. I was extremely sceptical of that page when it was first created, but it's become more than I ever would have imagined, so I think it's only fair to give the same breadth to this topic. That said, I urge any editors working on it to be very careful with what content they add to it. I can see the potential for the topic to go south very quickly, and if it does, I imagine it'll be summarily deleted again. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:58, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: This content has effectively been restored by placing it on [[Lore:Government]] and turning [[Lore:Fascist]] into a redirect. I have proposed the article for deletion as it doesn't address any of the concerns raised above and remains a speculative shoehorning. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

::I think a potential page on Government has some merit, but the section of fascism specifically doesn't, especially in its current form. There's nothing in TES suggesting that the one source was referring to a form of fascist government existing in the Empire, if you look at the real world definition of fascism it is a poor fit. But the word "fascist" has multiple definitions. As the edit in question can't escape, there isn't even an establishment of a relation to government without bringing in real world information, instead relying on the fact that the word was used as an insult once as the entire basis of its presence there. If you look at the [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism dictionary definition] "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control" makes a lot more sense in the context then the primary meaning "a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition".

::A fully developed page on Government in TES could possibly mention the single usage of the word fascist in a note section, but I think that's the extent of it that would be appropriate considering existing sources. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 11:39, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

== Mod Copyright Templates ==

While looking at some recent uploads I came to the thought that our current set of copyright templates don't seem to cover mods very well. It's very probable that a mod author doesn't want their creations just under creative commons, and mod elements also for the most part incorporate or are entirely based off of existing Elder scrolls content so it should most likely mention that it is still property of Bethesda. With that in mind we probably need licensing templates of some sort for mod projects. It'll allow us to fill in in case a mod author is declaring copyright on their mod.

One case that this would cover for example is the [[Beyond Skyrim:Concept Art|Beyond Skyrim concept arts]], which from what I can see are being uploaded under CC2.5 but are marked as being under [https://beyondskyrim.org/project/elsweyr copyright by Beyond Skyrim on their own website]. It'd be an improvement for us to say those images are copyright of Beyond Skyrim I believe, and I'm sure there are other examples like this on UESP.

Bringing this up here in case there are other gaps in the copyright templates that I haven't thought up that would deserve consideration. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 03:54, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: Sometimes I'm asked by mod authors to upload images for Verified Creator Program releases before they're publicly published on Bethesda's site. So the license choice of it being an image from a Bethesda web site is not yet accurate and I just leave it blank because the option you just described is missing.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:05, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For Eve's specific example of being asked to upload images by the author, I think that's just {{tl|Usedwithpermission}}, or a variation of it. For other mod images, I think we may want to distinguish between in-game screenshots taken by UESP editors, and images created directly by the mod author, as we do everywhere else. For images created by the author, we probably want a Fair Use variant which says something like:
:: ''This image was taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod, the copyright of which is held by the mod author(s). The use of such images is believed to fall under the fair dealing clause of Canadian copyright law.''
:: For screenshots, we probably want something like:
:: ''This image was created for use on UESP using components taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod. The copyright for the components is held by the mod author(s), while the copyright for this particular composition is held by UESP. It is available for use under the same Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License as our text content.''
:: We can add into that whatever extra info about Zenimax/Bethesda if necessary, but at the same time I don't want to conflate ownership, as Zeni/Beth only own the base game, not the unique composition created by the mod author. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:08, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

::: Thanks. I see that under the "Other" section and will use that in such cases going forward.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

== Grammar Concerns ==
I recently added an official mod summary to the [[Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]] page that had a grammar error. Immediately recognizing the error, I used the sic template to note that the text appeared as the author typed it and should not be corrected until and unless the official summary itself gets fixed. This was simple. This was routine. This was not expected to be controversial. However, another editor removed the template insisting that the incorrect grammar was actually correct. An edit war ensued where they misquoted grammar rules. It then went to the page's talk page where it got little attention. Then I gave up and left it without the template. Similar happened not long after, though, when I added needed images to [[SI:Grakendo Udico]]. This put the page on my watchlist, so I noticed when its correct grammar was changed to be incorrect. This started another edit war with the same user. Worse, an apparent intent to cascade the error everywhere was presented when [[SI:The Fringe]] (also on my watchlist from a previous edit) was also updated by the same user to make the same change from correct grammar to incorrect grammar. I then raised the issue on our Discord in hopes of additional voices of reason helping to correct the user's understanding of English grammar rules [[https://discord.com/channels/261544750044282883/261887896930353155/1407950822196903959]]. Unfortunately, the result was not only far from what I hoped it would be but instead prompted such grave concerns that this portal post is merited. We, of course, honor intentional style choices made in the official material. We also recognize errors where they exist. We should not insist that errors are official style choices, even if they are common or frequent. We should not presume intent. Given the lack of an official declaration that the grammar error is intentional, the basic rules of English grammar should apply. I also hoped this point would not be controversial. It was. The arguments (which I frankly find preposterous) were instead made that "English has no hard rules", that "Proper names include things like pubs or newspaper publications, not geographic regions like the Fringe", and that we should intentionally propagate some assumed concept of Bethesda grammar as if it were an intentional choice rather than an obvious error to anyone sufficiently familiar with English grammar rules or referencing any widely accepted English style guide. In conclusion, the specific examples (a comma between verbs of a compound predicate, capitalization of articles in proper place names) need as definitive an affirmation as we can reasonably get. I don't think our own style guides require any modification as the suggested corrections simply bring the language in line with accepted norms; I should hope people don't need to be told to use sense and recognize an error as an error rather than thinking that just because Bethesda made an error that we should then make that same error wherever possible. Whether anyone then chooses to hunt down similar examples throughout UESP for the sake of instant consistency is up to them. I merely seek to correct the cases in point to serve as precedent and hope that this will result in correct usage gradually being applied as relevant pages are edited anyway.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 08:26, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: A few points:

: 1. '''Incorrect grammar''': This has been discussed at length before, but capitalising the definite article is only required when it forms part of a proper title. So, The New York Times or the [[Oblivion:The Merchants Inn|The Merchants Inn]], but not the Fringe or the Reach. Compare [[wikipedia:The Pale|the Pale]] (or even [[wikipedia:The Bahamas|the Bahamas]], supposedly an exception). Regarding the sic template, as I have [[Skyrim_Mod_talk:Verified_Creator_Program#Sic_Misuse|repeatedly pointed out]], the comma usage here is a (poor) stylistic choice and not a grammar error.

: 2. '''Inconsistency with source material''': The in-game dialogue and journal entries on both [[SI:Grakendo Udico]] and [[SI:The Fringe]] disagree with you. Both refer to "the Fringe" in prose, and UESP's capitalisation is inconsistent with that. As a general guideline, our [[UESPWiki:Spelling|spelling and capitalisation guide]] tends to follow what is seen in-game. If it was treated as "The Fringe" in ''Oblivion'', maybe you would have a case to disregard normal grammar rules for geographic place names. Alas, this is not so.

: 3. '''Consensus''': The sic removal did not get "little attention", it received a comment from one additional user who opposed the overzealous use of a sic tag. From looking at the discussion on Discord regarding the Fringe capitalisation, three additional users attempted to correct you on current consensus and accepted grammar for this and similar cases. Yours is clearly the minority position here, i.e. to ignore precedent, in-game spelling, real world grammar rules, and site-wide consistency in the pursuit of carving out "The Fringe" as an exception to the rule.

: There is nothing wrong with [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Be bold|being bold]] and reverting what you perceive as a mistaken edit. However, these cases to me seem like an inability to accept correction. Having a 3-hour-long Discord discussion about it followed by a Community Portal post is unnecessarily disruptive to what should have been a minor grammar improvement. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:02, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::Ultimately this change will require us marking upwards of thousands of instances of things like "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", and so on as sics. This goes against UESP's existing style guide, in relation to the text on [[UESPWiki:Spelling]] in particular: ''"The Elder Scrolls games use many unique words and names. The spelling of all Elder Scrolls words should match the spelling used in the game, even if that differs from the common English spelling."''

::This would also fall astray from the Manual of Style of Wikipedia, with us commonly referencing Wikipedia in gaps in our own coverage as a possible source. In relation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Capitalization_of_The MOS: CAPS Capitalization of The], I reference: ''"Do not ordinarily capitalize the definite article after the first word of a sentence; however, some idiomatic expressions, including the titles of artistic and academic works, should be quoted exactly, according to common usage."''

::This, when applied to our current practice, has us doing it correctly by following common usage.

::With both UESP's own style guide supporting our current position, and the Wikipedia MOS supporting it as well I would move onto one final point for why we shouldn't. This would cause extreme confusion among our readers seeing the extra thousand plus sics this would create, and would cause more fighting over sics then exists currently. It would both require a considerable amount of editor effort to make things consistent to this new standard, while only causing what I would perceive as a degradation of the quality of our content to the average user due to the increased confusion this would cause. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 09:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::: No one is saying "the" should always be capitalized. The rule is that it is capitalized when it is part of the name itself. The advocated behavior here is to adhere to the rule, which itself applies to exceptional names that include the article as part of the name, NOT to do something that is itself an exception to the rules in general. This "inability to accept correction" accusation works both ways. You may wish to avoid additional personal attacks and threats and try to address the actual issue at hand. And no one is questioning spelling. I don't know why spelling keeps being brought up. The cases in point are a comma and a capital T, not spelling. This is not a matter of opinion. People yelling loudly, repeatedly, and even vulgarly that their way is the right way without any relevant or credible citation is an abusive attempt at bullying, not a valid counter to the credible sources provided via Discord ([[https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/punctuation/commas/extended_rules_for_commas.html]] [[https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html]]). The argument that being correct is too hard is also absurd. Firstly, what's right is what matters—and what's right is often not what's easy. Secondly, to repeat, this does not need to be effected immediately sitewide; we simply need to set the record straight on what's right and what's wrong here to prevent the people that do make the edits—when and if they choose to do so—from undoing each other's work. The UESP style guide says nothing about the specific issues, leaving any reasonable person to understand that normal and basic grammar rules prevail. Wikipedia's current cited example of "the Bahamas" is an error. It's easy to find errors like this. That still does not make them right. Find credible and accepted direction that contradicts the credible and accepted direction already linked above, if you can, not additional examples of common error.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 10:05, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::: Eve, at this point the only person insisting their way is the sole correct one—against all style guides, in-game usage, and community consensus—is you. The Fringe is not the name of a country. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:54, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Quick summary for the rest of the community, because for a section titled "Grammar concerns", OP's content focused on how the alleged errors have been mis/handled without specifying the actual errors themselves; also, for everyone who can't be bothered to look up diffs and/or people like me who are not on Discord.

{|class="wikitable"
!Page and revision!!Text!!OP's edits
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3402135|Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]]
|Will you save her from the Forsworn, and help her write your epic?
|Will you save her from the {{sic|Forsworn,|Forsworn}} and help her write your epic?
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3405307|Shivering:Grakendo Udico]]
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|the Fringe]], she will be...
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]], she will be...
|-
|[[Shivering:The Fringe]]
|colspan=2|(What was the update "by the same user ... to incorrect grammar"?)
|}
And now that everybody else is on the same page about "a comma and a capital T", here's my two cents.

The first one seems to be just an Oxford comma on verb phrases. A stylistic choice perhaps, but not necessarily a grammatical error, let alone one that warrants a {{tl|Sic}}.

For the second one, I agree that the excerpt quoted by AKB above from [[UESPWiki:Spelling#General]] actually does apply to spelling, not capitalization. The relevant part is further down in [[UESPWiki:Spelling#Proper Names]]: ''"...cases where proper names begin with a definite (e.g. the) or indefinite (e.g. a, an) article. The article should be preserved if the proper name is used as a standalone noun and omitted if used as a modifier for some other noun..."''.

Thus, I don't see any problem with "When you arrive at The Fringe". As a matter of fact, in the page for [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]] itself, the description for many [[Shivering:The Fringe#Places within The Fringe|related places]] refer to it as "The Fringe". The intro blurb also mentions "The Shivering Isles" and "The Gatekeeper". So... I'm not sure I understand correctly what AKB refers to as "common usage" above (not throwing shade, I legit don't because I don't edit in the [[OB:Oblivion|OB]] and [[SI:Shivering Isles|SI]] namespaces much).

However, it is very important to note that in-game mentions of "the Fringe" do not constitute a grammatical error either. There isn't, and there shouldn't be, any call to add sitewide sics to "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", etc. especially when they're quoted from in-game dialogue or journal entries. I think we can recognize it's a slippery slope fallacy and that it should not be taken as support or opposition to either approach.

Lastly, from [[UESPWiki:Style Guide#Language]], ''"...capitalization follows standard English rules, {{Hover|emphasis mine|'''except'''}} in cases where a proper name or title comes from an Elder Scrolls game, in which case the game capitalization is kept. More specifics on spelling and capitalization, and clarification on in-game spelling variations, are provided at [[UESPWiki:Spelling|Spelling]]''. So... please understand why "spelling keeps being brought up".

TLDR: I believe (1) Oxford comma okay, no sic; and (2) "The Fringe" okay but "the Fringe" also okay if quoting in-game content. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 11:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: To me, the examples on [[Shivering:The Fringe]] speak to the lower quality of those older SI pages compared to the rest of the site. It is most definitely "[[Shivering:Haskill#Quest-Related_Events|the Gatekeeper]]" in all contexts. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Thank you, Salamangkero. The quoted examples, citation of our own policy confirming that the "definite ... article should be preserved", and citation of our policy confirming that our text "follows standard English rules" are all very helpful. Regarding the third example, I see now I have an error in my original post. It was actually the page "Retaking The Fringe", not just "The Fringe". It was effectively the same as the second edit, though. Beyond that, as per the rule cited by the same user themselves ([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma]]), the comma does not fit the definition as the definition requires the list to consist of at least THREE terms—not two. I also concur that citing examples of it being done the way one person considers right or wrong or vice versa is not particularly helpful—hence encouraging us to look at style guides that actually intend to prescribe correct usage. Also, regarding sic usage in general, it's my understanding that this applies ONLY when we're quoting anyway. Otherwise, the error should simply be corrected, not preserved (with or without annotation). As for our Gatekeeper friend, I don't know for certain if "The" is part of his name or not off the top of my head. I suspect it's not, so a lowercase "the" would be good here. The list of exceptions that actually include the article as part of the proper name is likely a very short list, all of which have probably already been mentioned just now in this section.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:36, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
:: And while I question if it's better to ignore such a crude comment, I'll respond for the record. "against all style guides": No, I'm advocating what every single style guide cited says to do; you're the one that keeps insisting otherwise with zero style guides backing up the approach. "against ... in-game usage": Some of it. It's inconsistent. And being in the game doesn't make it right. Hence the existence of the sic template in the first place. "against ... community consensus": I posted this hours ago, and we most definitely have not reached a consensus. "The Fringe is not the name of a country.": I agree. Also, no one said it was. Nor does it need to be. Any type of proper name that starts with an article counts.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I was not aware the Oxford comma had a 3-terms-and-above restriction. I learned something new today; thank you for that. I also offer an alternative: instead of a list of verb phrases like I initially claimed, consider it instead as [https://www.grammarly.com/blog/punctuation-capitalization/comma-before-and/#1 two independent clauses].

:::Point taken re: the examples being of lower quality / older. So I did a quick scan of [[UESPWiki:Featured_Articles/Old_FAs|Featured Articles]]:
:::*[[ON:Molag Bal]] mentions ''"...during [[ON:The Watcher in the Walls|The Watcher in the Walls]], [[ON:The Rat|The Rat]] informs you that..."'' and ''"...you are transported to [[ON:The Colored Rooms|The Colored Rooms]]."''
:::*[[SR:Serana]] has dialogue ''"When in The Reach"'' and ''"When in The Rift"''
:::*[[Lore:War of Betony]] mentions ''"...from Camaron's chief advisor [[Lore:The Oracle|The Oracle]], who reportedly..."''
:::*[[SR:Fishing_(activity)]] lists places ''"...east of the passage from [[SR:The Rift|The Rift]]."'', ''"...in front of [[SR:The Mortar and Pestle|The Mortar and Pestle]] and...'', ''"...next to the entrance to [[SR:The Warrens|The Warrens]]."'' and ''"Travel to [[SR:The Guardian Stones|The Guardian Stones]]..."''

:::The argument could be made that these are isolated errors; maybe, maybe not. However, I do think the current wording of the wiki's style guide leans towards preserving the capital "T" for in-game content that actually have "The" in their names. I believe, in the past, contributors have encountered dialogue / journal entries where a lowercase "t" was used to refer to "the Thing" and taken that as the norm. I think, over time, other contributors also followed suit until it became a de facto style, which is why arguments that appeal to "precedent" and "site-wide consistency" are brought up. However, [[UESPWiki:Consensus#When Consensus is Needed|Consensus]] guidelines specifically warns against ''fait accompli'' and I feel that using "community consensus" to shoot down attempts to clarify consensus is a bit underhanded.

:::However, the same [[UESPWiki:Consensus#Reaching Consensus|Consensus]] guidelines also recommends we ''"respect the wiki guidelines about civility"'' and ''"focus on the issue being discussed"''. I think it's obvious everyone views the comma and/or the capital T as completely trivial issues. Given that, everyone also expects a quick resolution then feels understandably frustrated when the discussion gets "unnecessarily" prolonged. People begin feeling aggravated, misunderstood or unheard; they may lash out, insinuating a misunderstanding of guidelines, an inability to accept feedback or just plain stubbornness. People become defensive, take things personally, create strawman arguments and respond to quotes taken out of context.

:::Might I suggest taking a breather and letting go of the need to reach (or enforce) a consensus "right here, right now"? Maybe 24 hours or even a couple of days? There might be some benefit if other contributors, who might be less emotionally-invested, could be given time to bring something new to the table. Perhaps the other participants in said Discord might also share their reasoning here?

:::I, too, would love for this to be uncontroversial but that boat has already sailed. For a supposedly trivial concern, the stakeholders have pretty strong feelings on what is right or wrong. We're here now; might as well use this space to have a civil discussion with the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 13:55, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you again. Well said. Treating it as two independent clauses doesn't work, though, since the second clause relies on the "Will you" at the beginning (and is thus dependent). Otherwise, the meaning would get changed into asking a question and then issuing a command which seems very unlikely to be the author's intent.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 14:38, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Our primary motivating factor is what the games do. By and large, such instances in the games has a lower case letter for the definite article when used in the middle of the sentence. In similar cases on wikipedia, they have also settled on the lowercase t for such instances, see for example [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters/Archive_34#Capitalization_of_The|this discussion on the Bahamas]]. English has no hard and fast rule on this, and many if not most American English speakers learned growing up to NOT capitalize the t in a definite article in the middle of a sentence except in very specific circumstances, and place names are not one of those circumstances. It doesn't really matter what the various manuals of style say to do, because we do not follow any specific manual of styles, we just copy what the game devs have decided to do, and the vast majority of time, they do not capitalize the t. This holds true in games from Morrowind all through to ESO (I don't have access to the text files for games before that).

To quote one of the commenters from that Wikipedia discussion:

''"And we've had this debate many times before about many things, such as various company names, a lot of universities, etc., and the end result is always the same: WP uses "the" because most sources do. See also MOS:TM and WP:OFFICIALNAME; WP really doesn't care about the preferences of particular publishers or other entities, nor for "officialness" of some particular style choice. WP is not written in officialese."''

In this case, "most sources" for us are the games. And saying that the thousands of times they have made this choice in games across multiple decades is somehow a "common error" vastly misstates the sheer number of instances. In ESO alone there are over 1400 instances of "the Reach" with that capitalization. Sicing all of them is is both unnecessary and incorrect, because the game devs have settled on a style to use, and we should follow it. Again, given the number of times that this exact sort of capitalization has come up on Wikipedia, and every single time consensus has been that common usage does NOT capitalize the t, most readers are likely to assume a capitalized t is incorrect.

TLDR: We follow the style used by the games, and the games overwhelmingly use a lowercase t in such instances. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:30, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
: I would also point out that even if we WERE using a manual of style rules, Chicago's FAQ regarding this situation effectively says lowercase t is okay if that's what the source is using:

:''"Meanwhile, the entries in Merriam-Webster list “Gambia or the Gambia” and “Bahamas or the Bahamas or The Bahamas”—suggesting not only that usage varies but that a lowercase t may be more common when the article is used with either name. And though an editor applying Chicago style would ordinarily defer to Merriam-Webster (and choose lowercase), you can cite Britannica if your preference is for The Gambia. Just be sure to switch to lowercase when the article belongs to the surrounding text, as in “the Gambia River” or “the Gambian coast.”''
:(from [https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html here])

:Standard English grammar does not capitalize these situations generally and it would be wrong to mark them as sic for making a choice to not capitalize them. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:43, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Dictionaries are inherently NOT prescriptive or instructive. They document how people use language, not how it should be used. So of course they are going to note that it appears with and without a capital. They are frequently asked what the "right" way of writing something is and invariably respond that they only keep track of what people do, never judging what is best but merely helping people understand what others mean.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I would just suggest that both be acceptable, and therefore neither should be changed. Stats for ESO are already mentioned; in Skyrim, there are 52 instances of the Pale and the Rift being mentioned mid-sentence, and only 12 of The Pale and The Rift. This shows that 20% of the time, someone made a concerted effort to actively capitalise it, but by the same token, 80% of the time they didn't bother. As for the Reach, that appears over 100 times, while The Reach is only capitalised 3 times. CSList for Oblivion isn't working so I can't check the Fringe.
:::When it comes to sic and commas, I don't really think it's worth sic'ing punctuation at all, apart from apostrophes. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't see why a sic wouldn't be appropriate in the case punctuation is unambiguously wrong, such as a question ending in a period rather than a question mark. In the particular case of the Verified Creator Program, I do think Eve's edit is correct, but I do not know for sure that the original is unambiguously incorrect, so I shall remain neutral on that. But in general, I would support sic tags being used on any punctuation *errors*. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 21:25, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Correct placement of commas is subject to more 'grey areas' than just about any other aspect of punctuation. Deciding what is 'correct' (as opposed to purely stylistic choice) in many instances comes down to subtle distinctions of emphasis and intent. In the example under discussion, I would argue it depends on whether you consider "save her from the Forsworn" and "help her write your epic" as two distinct actions (ie "Will you save her from the Forsworn, ''and will you'' help her write your epic?") or just one ("Will you save her from the Forsworn ''while simultaneously'' helping her write your epic?"). Not having played the Creation in question, I would suggest the former is more likely, but neither are technically incorrect.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:35, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: The case in point for "The Fringe" is prose written by UESP users. There's nothing to sic. It's just a matter of being consistent in the text we do fully control. As for whether it's "worth" marking official text as erroneous on account of this, no one is demanding every such instance be immediately marked as such. I just want users to be able to acknowledge that it's not called Fringe. It's called The Fringe. And when users indicate this with a capital T, I don't want them to be fought on it. And I certainly don't want correct instances of a capital T changed to incorrect instances of a lowercase T as was the case here. Even if either were perfectly fine, then that change is unjustified anyway. The point is also well made that some number of people at Bethesda very clearly made an active effort to properly capitalize it. I'd say the more obvious distinction is that we have zero examples of it being referred to as simply "Fringe." It's always THE Fringe (except one "My Fringe" from Sheogorath being goofy and alluding to himself effectively being the realm itself that no one actually asserts should be an example of anything—but which nevertheless capitalizes "My," albeit possibly for a different reason anyway). And even if we were to mistake reference materials that merely chronicle usage both capitalizing the article and not as endorsement of both being proper, the one with the capitalization presents greater clarity of the actual place name whereas the other approach seeks to intentionally maintain unnecessary vagueness. As for the comma, the fact that the attempt to justify multiple intended meanings requires actually changing the phrasing to make it sound normal says a lot. If the words "will you" were repeated, then the comma would indeed be just fine. But they're not. And that's why it's an issue. There are no interpretations of the meaning that make the current comma and words valid. I feel much of the commentary stems from fear of needing to do a lot more work or fear of one's existing work looking lesser in some way. That's not how this works. Once we acknowledge what is ideal, no one is required to hunt down every instance of anything that falls short. Anything containing such an instance is not rendered any more incomplete than anything else on the wiki. The entire site is an eternal work in progress. Just don't change the right way to the wrong way when and where someone actually does care enough to get it right.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 06:44, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::No-one is suggesting that the location is called "Fringe". What they are arguing is that "the Fringe" and "The Fringe" are both equally correct. As for the comma, I was not "changing the phrase to make it sound normal", I was merely illustrating that there are different ways of interpreting the meaning, which affect whether the comma is appropriate. Or are you suggesting that the second interpretation is the only possible one? You seem to regard neither style guides nor dictionaries nor common usage as valid counter-evidence to the position you regard as 'objectively' correct, but I'm unclear how you arrived at this position. In any case, when it comes to proper nouns, the position of the 'owner' of the noun (in this case the devs) takes precedence. That's why there's a movie called ''Inglourious Basterds'', not ''Inglorious Bastards''. Now can we move on from a topic that really should not have provoked this much controversy?--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:07, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I'm stating that no matter how the sentence is interpreted, the comma is an error. You are correct that dictionaries are not regarded as evidence of how things SHOULD be—only of how they are used, whether desirable or not. As for style guides on the comma, I linked a Purdue reference affirming the comma's incorrectness. No one has linked any contrary guide. As for style guides on capitalizing The Fringe, the Chicago Manual of Style reference I linked also affirms that it "generally remains capitalized" and further attests Brittanica corroborates. I admit the last paragraph of that source is slightly confusing; however, read in full context, it refers precisely to The Gambia and The Bahamas as tolerating a lowercase "the." It explicitly states that any other region whose name starts with a definite article (such as "The") should have it capitalized, citing examples of El Salvador, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and The Hague. As for Bethesda's stance, if you can find a comment of them explicitly stating that it should be one way or the other, that would be awesome. Otherwise, again, just trying to deduce their position based on inconsistent examples is either inconclusive or outright supports capitalizing the article. And once again, absolutely no one has argued against honoring intentional spellings, which remain completely irrelevant to the cases in point.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: As an extra point of clarification, even the dictionaries agree anyway. "The Hague," for example is only listed with a capital The. It's simply that The Gambia and The Bahamas are extra exceptional in that they alone have a modicum of tolerance for a lowercase "the."[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:15, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: If tolerance is a valid consideration, Bethesda's tolerance of over 80% lower case is highly significant. As I said above, I would just suggest that both options be acceptable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 17:39, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::: How would that even work? First person to add the text gets to pick? People can endlessly change it back and forth?[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 18:13, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Yep, first person decides. For every alt spelling or grammar rule that UESP has no preference toward, consistency within the page is what matters, so whatever is on there first takes priority. Edits that change it back and forth aren't really allowed because edits are meant to be useful and changing it back and forth when the original already established something wouldn't be of substance. I think "dialogue" vs "dialog" is one of these things, where you can use either as long as the page is consitent within itself. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 18:24, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

: For whatever reason, the Spelling page actually dictates "Use 'dialog' to refer to interface elements ('dialog box', 'dismiss the inventory dialog') and 'dialogue' for character content ('the NPC's dialogue varies by player character race')." I get the idea, though. For the cases in point, I'd say they fall under the UESP "preference" to use correct grammar.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:47, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For the sake of completeness on the stats, I managed to get the Oblivion dialogue on the Fringe now that CSList is partially working again. Of 40 mid-sentence references to the Fringe, only 3 are capitalised. That's over 90% which aren't. And yes, as above; in other instances where there are two equally-acceptable styles, whichever is on the page first usually takes priority. Although I know sometimes when a lot of info is added to a page, editors may sometimes switch what's already there if that is then in the minority compared to their additions; I think that happens particularly if they've been typing out their edit elsewhere, and editing their additions would take longer than changing what's already there. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 22:17, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Dialog vs Dialogue isn't just a choice of the editor. Dialogue is specific to people speaking, dialog is to interface elements. This is specific to American English, where dialog is computer related. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:49, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Yep, after looking into it, this was [https://content1.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Spelling&diff=3116711&oldid=3047631 changed] a year ago and I last reviewed the guide before it was reduxed. A current example is Dwemer vs. Dwarven as an adjective of origin, of which either is acceptable. Thanks for the corrections on this point. Eve is correct that their Purdue reference has gone unchallenged and pending any provided counter-source, I must side with them on this and say the sic is valid. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 17:24, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

== Headers on Style Pages ==
Following from a discussion about headers on Crafting Motif Style pages in the Discord.

So, some Crafting Motif Style pages have a level 4 header on their pages under the intro paragraph where it says what weapon/armor is involved. An example of this is [[ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords|ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords]]. Some, primarily older ones, do not have that. They look like this [[ON:Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes|Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes]]. The Abah's Watch Axes example does appear to be styled more like how the in-game books look. I started doing the level 4 heads like on Voskrona Guardian Swords because I saw it on a Lore page before ([[Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style|Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style]]) as an example, though I think most, if not all, Lore Style pages have this.

So the question I have: Going forward, what should we do to fix the discrepancy?

1. Remove all the headers.

2. Keep the headers on Lore pages, but not on the Online namespace pages.

3. Keep all headers on both.

Thank you.

[[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 05:17, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:I support Option 1. The game itself doesn't have headers or bolding or anything different (other than the text being in caps) and we shouldn't be adding formatting that isn't part of the games to these pages. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:47, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::I support Option 1. Yeah, we should make it so it looks like in-game. --[[User:BixenteN7Akantor|BixenteN7Akantor]] ([[User talk:BixenteN7Akantor|talk]]) 18:41, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Option 1, although I think the bolded headings look better, we should prioritize accuracy. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 20:09, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Just adding to this, I'm noticing that some of the books (like Crafting Motif 33, above) indent the text under the headers where others don't. Unless there's any objection, I'll outdent those in addition to removing the headers whenever I run the bot job. That'll bring them into line with how they appear in game. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:02, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Option 1 makes sense. We should still keep some form of bolding to maintain readability (putting <code>;</code> in front of the chapters would easily do the job), we've never focused on perfectly replicating the books exactly how they are in-game so I don't see why we would start doing that now (see: authorship and intro notes in-game getting moved into the template on-wiki). —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 08:43, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Well, for me, it's a matter of consistency between the pages as opposed to perfectly replicating them as they are in-game. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 17:06, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Been a while. I say we pull the trigger on this for Option 1. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 23:47, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} Sorry, I completely forgot about this. The job's actually been ready to go since we first talked about it. I'm just running it now and it'll probably be done by the time I post this. Let me know if there are any issues. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:23, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
: It missed two but otherwise, everything looks good. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:05, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
::The two that it missed both had level 3 headers, which I hadn't realized were a thing, so I was only checking for level 4 headers. I should've checked the spacing after the title, though. I'm not sure how I missed that. Thanks for fixing the ones where that was an issue. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:59, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

==Class skill line pages not reflecting subclassing==
While I was adding achievement sections to the class skill line pages, I noticed that they all still say "(class skill line name) is one of three class skill lines available to (class)." Obviously, with subclassing now, these skill lines are available to everyone, and that statement kind of implies they're exclusive to that class. I've left them as is, as I didn't really know how to approach this. Any ideas are welcome, or if anyone wants to tackle this themselves, go ahead :) [[User:Sogekihei|Sogekihei]] ([[User talk:Sogekihei|talk]]) 02:00, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

: What about [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online%3ABone_Tyrant&type=revision&diff=3450557&oldid=3449649 this]? —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:11, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:: Since I didn't receive any feedback on this change, I've gone ahead and added this standard wording for each class skill line. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

== Incomplete / Unavailable mods in modspace? ==

I've stumbled upon a [[Morrowind Mod:Sixth House Reloaded|''Morrowind'' mod]] that has a decent amount of content on a decent amount of pages, which would have been hardly notable except for the fact that it is not available. Characterized as an "upcoming overhaul mod", work on the pages started on September of this year (and stalled one month after). I feel like this is problematic for the following reasons:
* Unlike mods that actually exist, there is no meaningful way for wiki contributors to create, edit or fact-check any content.
** Instead of articles vetted and improved by the community, we have one contributor's personal sandbox outside Userspace.
** Indeed, the few changes done by other editors worked on minor housekeeping as opposed to actual content.
* I don't think UESP is the appropriate venue to host a mod's full changelog or documentation.
** Nexus Mods, for example, would be a much more suitable platform for that kind of content.
* As this specific mod is still a work in progress, its pages feel more like hype or press releases rather than useful (or even usable) reference material.
** UESP is not the place for that either.

I would like to propose the deletion of the mod's pages. As an alternative, though, the pages could be moved from Modspace to Userspace. Indeed, [[Special:DoubleRedirects|a trail of redirects]] indicate that at least [[Morrowind_Mod:6HR:Creatures|one article]] might have started as a [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sandbox|sandbox page]].

However, I'm not sure if similar practices might also apply (or even be the norm) in other namespaces. Perhaps my proposals might be unfair, if there's some mitigating context I'm unaware of. Thus, I am asking for feedback from the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 19:18, 15 December 2025 (UTC)
: I agree with what you're saying. The fact that it's not available is the key thing on this one as opposed to other incomplete mods that are partially available, such as Tamriel Rebuilt. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:27, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

::Yeah I think at the time we assumed it would be out imminently. I have no problems with moving it back to Userspace until it releases. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:43, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

:::Done. Moved pages to subpages in [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sixth House Reloaded]]. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 23:23, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

==New Reference Tier Classification Specifically for the Julian LeFay Notes (Proposal)==
Hi! I wanted to suggest the creation of a new reference tier (as we have for official vs UOL) for the recently recovered TTRPG campaign notes of Julian LeFay—which were used for the creation of lore background for ''The Elder Scrolls II: Dagerfall''—and have all been published on [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefays-dd-notes The Imperial Library]. This release is the biggest batch we've ever received as a community of developer design documents, so I'm thinking we ought to treat them differently than regular UOL—especially since a great deal of the background lore in ''Dagerfall'' references the events that took place during this campaign (for example: background of Vanus Galerion, invention of Artaeum, events around Dwynnen, Baron Othrok, and the Camoran Usurper) and many blanks within that area of lore can be filled in with the contents of these notes nearly seamlessly (official canon would take presedence where it does not of course). My suggestion is that that a JLC (Julian LeFay Campaigns) tier be slotted between official and UOL in the 'reference' section of our pages.

In my mind, we would treat the contents of Julian's notes like how Nukepedia treats the Fallout Bible (which was a big document written by an official developer, and contained a plethora of developer commentary as well as design document content) -- more seriously than a UOL source but ultimately less seriously than any canon source. This would mean lorespace pages could be created about their contents (unlike strictly UOL pages), only with a header notice ([https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Asp_Faust as seen here for example]) stating extra clearly that these lorespace pages are based on a secondary source. This method would also subscribe to Todd Howard's statement on truthfulness when it comes to overall fiction of ''The Elder Scrolls'', as stated [[General:Todd Howard PAX East 2019 Interview#Game Development, Canon, and Fan Theories|here]]. However, this would and should extend only to the contents of these notes alone -- all other UOL sources would and should remain UOL.

These notes are some of Julian LeFay's only known direct designs and writings, and I think this would be a really nice way to honor his legacy as well as his contributions to the series while also not overstating their officiality. Looking forward to hearing any thoughts, questions, and suggestions in response to this proposal! Best, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 23:55, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

: To me, this is the same as any other conceptual source covered by the catch-all UOL tag. I agree it's noteworthy developer commentary, but we don't need to categorise unofficial sources into tier lists. I don't see how it's any more "canon" than other dev texts or cutting room floor design docs—foundational, yes, but the same citation rules apply. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:: I have to agree I don't agree with distinguishing UOL tiers on this way. It feels like giving preferential treatment and I feel like that's a slippery slope. Julian's works are invaluable that much is certain, but I'd feel weird with having UESP essentially say "this Dev's contributions matter more than this other Dev's" regardless of personal opinion on such. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 00:27, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: With all respect to Julian I don't know if he would have even himself considered this the same or equivalent to the finished project? Ultimately it was only released on the event of his tragic death as a nice treat for his fans. What would be the cutoff for what's DnD and whats TES? With all the DnD monsters and giants included in it seems like a line would have to be drawn somewhere if it was considered near equivalent to official lore. Absolutely I would like to see material from it cited as well tolerated UOL with regards to the gaps it fills in Daggerfall lore. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:31, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::: Well the reason I think there ''is'' a need is in this case is because I think it would be appropriate to make lorespace pages about the material, which is not standard for our UOL policy; I'm not just suggesting to add another tier to add another tier. This is also why we would put a notice alike the Fallout Bible header on such pages, because it is a secondary source. I'm not saying it should be treated as official. I wouldn't say these are "cutting room floor" in any fashion, it's far more like the extra source material from the bottom of [[Wikipedia:Iceberg theory|Hemingway's Iceberg]]—in the sense that this was the source material ''directly'' that was used to formulate the lore of ''Daggerfall''. I honestly can't think of another case where we have ever had direct access to documents of this style before, ever. So to me it feels like something at least worth having a discussion about here.

:::: I'd also note that Julian was the original series director for TES in the 1990s, he wasn't just any miscellaneous developer who ran a tabletop game in his off hours—I'd honestly relate it to an author like Tolkien authoring his many notes for the Silmarillion that weren't published until long after he had written them. Additionally I'd note that this is entirely a one-case scenario suggestion, as I said all other UOL should and would remain UOL. And again while we might not measure extratextual sources by tiers, we know Bethesda officially does. As you can read in Todd's statement on truth above, I think it would be more than fair to say the original notes used for fleshing out ''The Elder Scrolls'' after ''Arena'' ought to rate higher than a developer's forum text or post, which the UOL category is normally reserved for. Looking forward to further discussion on this! Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 00:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: Actually, I'll place a counter proposal here. If we were to keep the reference tier as UOL (which is what most seem to have a problem with above) but allow contents from the notes to be covered on individual pages in lorespace per the Fallout Bible extratextual page header style suggested above, I would be comfortable with the UOL designation. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:06, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::: What are examples of the material you think warrants the caveat? -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:08, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::: Sure. Firstly, I'd say "Caramon Drake", the lich of Castle Wightmoor that Baron Othrok faces against who is mentioned in the book ''[[Lore:The Fall of the Usurper|The Fall of the Usurper]]'' but is not named directly. Castle Wightmoor itself, which we possess a concept map of and details about, also mentioned in the book. Additionally there's the families of the Iliac Bay mentioned in the same book, but unnamed, would also be appropriate candidates. I could go on, but that gives a decent idea of what I have in mind in regards to lorespace additions. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:13, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::: Well that makes things kind of different as we actually have already made caveats like that in the past. That case by case we could name entries or articles after things that exist in canon but are only named in UOL, IE Parrapton, N'chorbal, and some rivers in ESO I believe. I don't think there needs to be some special category for this if enough people agree on the specific examples warranting it. As long as we aren't suggesting making things like pages for stuff with no basis like the character that is a DnD Firebolg.- [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:18, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::::: While those examples above are referenced in the official lore, there are others that are entirely extratextual -- the point of my suggesting the caveat header is so we can expand our coverage to these extratextual subjects. The Fallout wiki has been doing this for a very long time with specific documents of this sort, and their coverage of materials is better than ours for it.

::::::::: I agree than any materials referenced entirely not of The Elder Scrolls—like the Firebolg—should not feature anywhere outside of notes. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:26, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::: What is something that is entirely extratextual that would warrant an article wherein all the context about them was not already in the transcript? - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:32, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Sorry I'm not picking up your question exactly? Everything I'm referring to is contained in the released transcripts for the campaigns, if that answers that? I meant "extratextual" as in not currently hinted at in the official canon, so the opposite of a Caramon Drake or Castle Wightmoor (which are hinted at/referenced).

As far as extratextual items worth documenting, I would say the various lords of Summerset listed in the notes. Each of which have paragraph-sized biographies going over who they are any what their deal is. The map also tells us where they rule. I would also say a group like the Krysard would be deserving of a page. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:41, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

: Counter-counter proposal, how would folks feel about placing it in his own space instead of just in generalspace? Like how we have mods with their own special spaces (like say "Daggerfall Mod:" or "Tamriel Rebuilt:")—if fan mods deserves entirely special spaces like these, I think there's a decent argument to be made that the developer D&D game materials ought to have their own unique space as well. This keeps it out of official lorespace and also out of overcluttering generalspace—where we can both document and make lorespace-style pages for the contents. We can hyperlink relevant stuff to and from lorespace as necessary as UOL, nothing lost. Thoughts? Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 06:07, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::That seems like a good suggestion. I would be reluctant to create a new reference tier in case it gives the impression that all other UOL is given equal weight, which it isn't.-[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:58, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: I agree this seems perfectly fine. If modpages can have spaces then I see no reason why a developer's "lore bible" can't either. So for that specific proposal of a Julianspace I'm all for [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:46, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::Oh yeah we can probably give it a space in a similar manner to the books! Those have character bio pages and lists and such. Would make sense to treat it kinda like that. That way we could also just list all the characters and their bios. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 16:23, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: I think the suggestion to create a "Julianspace" to document the campaign fully is an interesting proposal. I also wouldn't be against lore page creation on the basis of this source either. Although usually disallowed for UOL-only concepts, I think an ad-hoc approach is appropriate if a case can be made for individual articles. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:29, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::In terms of naming lore articles, the Stargate Omnipedia uses an interesting method, since so many of the planets are unnamed in the show, but might get names in dev commentary or other non-canon sources. They name the article as the generic name (in this case, something like "Lich of Castle Wightmoor") and then have a redirect from the UOL name, with the first sentence listing the name as well as a note as why it isn't the article name. This would get around the issues involving using UOL names for the article title and still provide the information to the reader in the first sentence. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:35, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I would much rather we treat all UOL the same regardless of the source. That applies to how we reference it ''and'' how we document it, and in either case, there should be no tiering. Therefore if we create a separate namespace, it should be valid for any UOL concept to receive an article within that namespace, in the same way TIL doesn't differentiate between different developer's writings (they're all equally considered Obscure Texts). Although I would perhaps see this more logically as a subspace rooted on [[General:Unofficial Lore]] rather than a true separate namespace. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Wow, okay a lot to respond to here, lemme try and objectively boil down the proposals currently on the table so this can be talked out -- I'll leave my personal responses for another post. Many thanks to all above for offering their thoughts, it's massively appreciated!

*'''Tiered References Suggestion Rejected: No special reference tier for the notes, keep all references as UOL. Most everyone above seems massively against creating a new tier.'''
*'''Suggestion #1: Make a seperate space for overall coverage and making lorespace-esque pages about the notes. More people than not seem to find this potentially viable.'''
**Side Thought #1: One editor suggests this can emulate bookspace style in its coverage of the material.
**Side Thought #2: One editor thinks that this space should not exist at all unless it's going to cover all UOL, because it comes too close to a tiering this as higher than other UOL. The same editor suggest using generalspace for hosting all our coverage for this instead, rather than creating a new space.
*'''Suggestion #2: Two editors suggest that in an ad hoc exception, we allow the content of the notes to be used in regular lorespace -- but ''only'' the contents of these notes, other UOL would not be allowed coverage in lorespace in this fashion.'''
**Side Thought #3: Two editors suggest something similar, but that topics officially referenced can use generic names from the official source(s) for page titles and allow the content UOL from the notes to be covered there. However, the first editor suggested the approach of using the UOL names for page titles, as it was agreed to do with [[Lore:Parrapton]] and [[Lore:Lorais River]] (topics things that officially appear/are referenced officially).
**Side Thought #4: I introduced the above suggestion, while placing [[Template:Notice|notices]] at the top of such pages noting that the information is derived from a secondary source (as Nukepedia does for pages concerning ''Fallout Bible'' contents).
{{uns|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|04:59, 22 January 2026 (UTC)}}

:I also believe the suggestion of a "psuedo-space" or "subspace" still within General space suggested by Enodoc, which I'd maybe lean instead of a whole space but I could go either way really at this point. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 06:53, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

::Sorry, my bad. Had kind of a lot to compile there. That part has now been added above. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:14, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

:::Okay, following up on this. Personally my preference would be Suggestion #2 with Side Thought #4 tacked on, it just seems the simplest to implement and the most pleasant method of handling this overall in my mind.

:::The separate "julianspace" of Suggestion #1 would also work well enough. Though I'm afraid can't agree with Side Thought #2 about it somehow ''having'' to contain all UOL contents within the space... we do entirely have the discretion to decide things like this, there's not like a 'mathematical rule' that must be followed in order to decide how to handle our coverage here man. And really if fan things like ''Tamriel Rebuilt'' or ''Better Cities'' can have exclusive spaces, I think it's more than reasonable for a developer driven thing like this to have its own as well if we choose. In regards to shuffling it all into generalspace under subpages, I would dislike that and I think it would make it much harder for our users to discover and navigate the materials once recorded versus a unique space which would be on/off toggleable in UESP search. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:59, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

::::If it's my comment you're referring to as "Side Thought #2", the point was that there's no good reason to give one dev's UOL preferential treatment over any other, which was the exact same reason people opposed a separate reference tier. If it is theoretically viable for a separate namespace to be created for one dev's UOL, then it stands to reason that any dev's UOL could also theoretically have a separate namespace. Remember that TR3 and BC4 only have separate namespaces because it was decided that content didn't belong in MWMod or OBMod (spaces which already exist for mod content); so I would say for one dev's UOL to have it's own namespace primarily for the purpose of lorespace-adjacent articles, we first need to consider the parallel that any UOL concepts get their own lorespace-adjacent articles (whether directly in Lorespace, somewhere in General with the UOL source material, or in their own "UOL" namespace). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 14:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

== Trivia/citing myself as a source ==

Hey there! The social media [https://www.facebook.com/share/p/188yfZYRLL/ post about Slouchbears] reminded me of a similar bit of trivia: at PAX East 2018, in the build of ESO they had for the Summerset demo, [[ON:Bright Moons Lunar Moth|Bright Moons Lunar Moths]] didn't exist, but rather there were identical (but orange) moths named "Feather Moths" all around Summerset. Like Slouchbears, these don't exist as a creature in the final game, but the NPC [[ON:Feathermoth|Feathermoth]] is named after them, and there's two references to them in the form of a Treasure description and NPC dialogue, so we've got them listed on the [[Lore:Moth|Lore:Moth]] page.

I think it's worth adding this to the appropriate pages since trivia is always fun and it helps explain the random handful of references, but as far as I'm aware, the only source aside from my own memories is my [https://blog.uesp.net/pax-east-2018-saturday-bethesda-gameplay-day/ blog post] from April 10, 2018 where I mention them by name (though not that they were orange) - I even double-checked the ESO Live broadcasts from around that time, but those used newer builds that had the newer moths. (The event and my post were in April 2018, the demo build was from Feb according to my other post about the event, and the Chapter was released in June.) Is it appropriate in this scenario to cite my own old post as a source? ~ [[User:Alarra|Alarra]] ([[User_talk:Alarra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alarra|contribs]]) 06:41, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

:Since it was published in a blog post I believe it should be fine. Hopefully there might be something in the old files too. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 06:52, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

::To second Rim's comment, yes this is totally fine. If you're the foremost knowledgeable person that published about it, you should be able to cite your own sources as long as it is not excessive and with good faith. There is the problem of verifiability, but we have to be lenient when we don't have any other surviving sources. This happens all the time in academia (there are some edge cases and differences, as you can plagiarize yourself in academia, which would not be applicable in this scenario). --[[User:Ilaro|Ilaro]] ([[User talk:Ilaro|talk]]) 11:09, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

== Documentation about how to use icons in a page ==
I edited [[Skyrim:Enchanting]] to add a detail about renaming enchanted items on the Switch. To match the format of the section I was editing, I added a template call to put the nintendo-switch icon in next to the text I added. It took me a rather long time (15-30 minutes) to figure out how to do this, despite me having experience with Wikipedia editing and MediaWiki admin. Is there a page on this wiki explaining how to use icons when editing a page? Should I start creating one? I couldn't find one linked from [[UESPWiki:Getting Started]]

[[User:Bsammon|Bsammon]] ([[User talk:Bsammon|talk]]) 22:49, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: On the (potential) de-listing of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (from gamespace) ==

This is a proposal on why I believe we should de-list the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (and Unofficial Special Edition Patch, etc) from Skyrim's gamespace, and my reasonings for it. As a some of us know, a short while ago an exposé on the patch and its developers, albeit primarily Arthmoor, was released. I want to clarify before going deeper in that whilst -some- of this comes into play into the proposal, my main concern remains the amount of "false flag" bugs that the patch "fixes" and are eventually added to UESP (oftentimes by patch developers themselves) Skyrimspace pages. I will however be using the exposé video as a source often, as I've struggled to find the original posts lost to time, and the video does a good job of showing the most relevant ones. Whenever a source points to this video, it will be to the respective timestamped location.

A lot of these "fixes" are extremely subjective and less-so bug fixes but instead are either "balance changes" made by the mod developers, or personal interpretations of lore and the setting. All of which are classified as "bugs" by the mod developers, and subsequently so on UESP's gamespace pages. Now, there are -a lot- of these changes, impossible to document them all here, so these will inherently be cherry picked by the most blatant ones. For this reason I will actually have multiple proposals by the end of this thread. So lets begin, first with some "bug" examples.

----
* The [[Skyrim:Restoration#Necromage_when_playing_as_a_vampire|Necromage perk]] makes spells more effective against an undead. If you are a vampire, which tags you as undead, it makes self-targeted spells more effective against you. This is removed by the Unofficial Patch as it's considered a bug. On UESP it was listed a bug as well. Personally I do not see how this is a bug, an oversight or exploit at most.

* [[Skyrim:Redbelly_Mine|Redbelly Mine]] has corpses killed by spiders within. An NPC meanwhile claims no one has been hurt by spiders. The Unofficial Patch "fixes" this by removing the corpses from the mine. This isn't a bug to be fixed, this is an in-world NPC not being all knowing. This Mine also has another "bug" fixed. Albeit this second bug fix is a bit more subjective. The mine in vanilla is an Ebony mine, albeit some NPC's refer to it as an Iron mine. On the other hand, the mine is located in Shor's Stone which also makes narrative sense, considering Ebony is the blood of Lorkhan and Shor is Lorkhan. In ESO, this mine is -also- an ebony mine. The Patch changes this to an Iron mine, and whilst this is more subjective and less clear-cut, I still do not think this is a "bug". However, this one is no longer listed on Redbelly Mine's page bug list in its entirety, due to a small edit discussion from a few months ago. In addition to this, this "fix" adds an entirely new mine to Skyrim with Ebony to compensate. This is not a bug fix, this is an outright worldspace change.
** And yet, this remains controversial, with Arthmoor himself as of 6th November 2025 sharing his thoughts on what he perceives as a bug. However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach.

* [[Skyrim:Aval_Atheron|Aval Atheron]] is a general goods merchant who in dialogue claims to sell just about anything ""Assorted fruits and vegetables, all delicious and affordable!", "I've a little of everything for sale, come and see for yourself!", "Wherever I can find them. If you're the type who worries over where something came from, you may want to move on."" However his merchant stall only shows meat. The Patch considers this a bug and does the following two "bug fixes". It removes all non-meat goods from his merchant inventory, and blocks dialogue lines unrelated to meat. I have no idea how these can be considered bugs. They're listed as bugs on UESP as well.

* The famous [[Skyrim:Fortify_Restoration|Restoration Loop]] is admittedly an exploit, which is "fixed" by the patch. But personally I do not see how this is a bug. This is another extremely subjective one, and I'm mostly only including it to show how subjective bug fixes are and why globally classifying all these things as bugs could be a bad thing.

* There's a few "fixes" that on UESP are not listed as bug fixes but instead as notes, such as the Patch adding an extra room to the Ragged Flagon, or Mjoll's sword being changed from a one-hander to two-hander. Personally, if all these "fixes" were in the notes instead of "bugs" I'd have less of an issue, but then I think "why bother having them"?

* This "fix" admittedly I'm not sure if it's even on UESP, as it is incredibly time-consuming to check, and IMO if it is on UESP it isn't listed as a bug or fix, but outright in quest and npc dialogue pages. Bethesda consistently writes "jarls" in the lowercase, whilst the Patch "corrects" all mentions of jarl to use the uppercase. I'll copy paste from the patch's buglist page itself: "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before jarls and moots." -> "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before Jarls and Moots." (Bug #31783); DialogueCompanionsJorrvaskrWarTopic [000DAB27]: "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of jarls." -> "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of Jarls." (Bug #31781) They also do this with "steward -> Steward"

* The [[Skyrim:Archmage's Robes|Archmage's Robes]] can be worn with a circlet in vanilla Skyrim. The Patch considers this a bug and prevents circlets (and dragonpriest masks) from being worn together with the robe. This is also listed as a bug on UESP.

* The [[Skyrim:The_Guardian_Stones|Thief Guardian Stone]] is changed to no longer boost Archery, instead Archery is boosted by the Warrior Stone. Whilst there are two other buffs in the game which consider Archery a Warrior skill instead of a Thief skill, this still feels more like a balance change than anything. On UESP this has conflicts as well, as the Archery page lists the change as a Note, whilst the Guardian Stone page lists it as a Bug.

Okay, there's countless bugs fixed or "fixed" by the patch, I can't go through them all here. These ones caught my eye the most, and are once again admittedly cherry-picked. So, lets move onto the less gameplay and more community related issues. This will be quite subjective.
----

The patch developers have curated a hostile environment towards other bug fix mods. They've regularly abused DMCA strike systems to take down other bug fix mods and *legal* ports of his own mod where he had no standing to take it down, to the point even Nexus pointed such out.[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=XTJRU1_DaCbJ15LP&t=3039][https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/np8bi8/arthmoor_has_possibly_illegally_used_dmca_to_get/] and Arthmoor himself has harassed and belittled people so often to the extent of being banned from subreddits such as skyrimmods[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=QVVd-MWhGZO8zLAV&t=2975]. Personally, I do not want to go in length into the drama here as that is secondary. One of the sources I listed in this section is the "exposé" (as I couldn't find the original reddit posts myself easily) so if you wish, watch it and make up your own mind. Regardless, I think it is worth mentioning as it will tie into one of my proposals, so lets get onto those.

*'''Proposal One:''' This is the most lenient one. All "bug fixes" are moved to the Notes section on their respective pages, as some UESP pages already do this. This keeps the information visible whilst getting rid of the hard cut "bug" label on many things which aren't bugs.

*'''Proposal Two:''' The incoherent and more subjective "bug fixes" are removed from the pages. We can perhaps list them on the modspace for the patch instead.

*'''Proposal Three:''' All mentions of the unofficial patch are purged from UESP's gamespace. This is a nuclear option, and this is where the drama part comes in. Considering how -hostile- Arthmoor is to other modders and the general community at large, I feel weird seeing UESP "endorse" him in such a manner. I understand this one might be a bit too extreme for some, but considering the years of conflict caused by the head of this patch's dev team, I do think it's still worth considering. Moreso with Arthmoor's antics regarding his mod going as far as to deleting fair talk page related criticism on the UESP itself. Although I very much understand if the other two options, especially Proposal One, are more acceptable.

Well, that's my proposal- I hope we can have a productive conversation on this topic [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 07:27, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:On actual bugs: I think it's important to continue noting where a bug is fixed by USSEP, but I think that concept should be expanded to include any bug-fix compilation mod. USSEP is not the only mod that fixes bugs, and anything that ''is'' an actual bug-fix should not be relegated from Bugs to Notes.
:On subjective balance changes: Here I agree with Proposal One. Anything that is ''not'' an obvious bug should indeed be moved to Notes. And perhaps if we have that, we could also detail any mod that reverts USSEP's subjective changes, so anyone who is using USSEP for the bug fixes has an idea of how to restore vanilla functionality. But if we continue to indicate where USSEP actually fixes bugs, I think we also need to continue indicating the other stuff too; while it is technically not relevant, only covering half of what it does seems incomplete. Moving those things to modspace per Proposal Two could work, but we don't need that page turning into another USSEP change log list, so I think that would be less beneficial overall.
:On de-listing: As I said above, I'd rather see more mods that fix bugs being included, than removing information of when a bug is fixed. But I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of audit on what we actually consider a "bug" (based on our definition, not USSEP's). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:55, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::I've always wanted to completely purge "This bug is fixed by [mod]" from the wiki. I feel like information on mods should stay in mod-space and not be included on pages about the vanilla game. USSEP is linked to on well over 1,000 articles, which comes across as a big endorsement. I have a bugfix mod of my own, and if I were to link it on the hundred relevant UESP articles then I would generate a not-insignificant amount of revenue from the free advertising, since the Nexus page is monetised. Beyond USSEP, we also have Morrowind articles saying "This bug is fixed by [mod]" that link to a bugfix project that the active Morrowind modding community considers outdated and no longer recommend.

::Perhaps another solution would be to edit the Bug template to link to a page in mod-space that contains a list of bugfixing mods for that game. This way people can be made aware that various bugfix mods exist without choosing a single one to be advertised across the wiki. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::: I'm in full agreement with Samantha, it has also left a weird taste in my mouth to see an "endorsement" in this way. Even if it's not UESP doing it, it's still allowing it. I would personally be up for your proposal of linking to a bug fixing mod list page on a bug template instead of outright listing the mod. This would allow us to maintain bug fixes/subjective change info without showing favouritism to anyone, and without cluttering gamespace pages with 30 bug fix mods. And USSEP aside, it'd also mostly resolve the issue of outdated information as well for sure. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 19:25, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:::: Yeah, I support this. Even if the mod is super popular, we shouldn't be listing it uniquely compared to other mods. The patch infamously adds a whole other room to the Ratway for people to sleep in, which far oversteps the territory of mere bug fixing. Not that it being strictly bug fixing would mean it deserves the coverage it gets. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 23:20, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: I also support this. Proposal two is sensible, but I'm not opposed to proposal three, given how any attempts at an alternative patch for Skyrim have repeatedly shut down by the operators of USSEP under ludicrous pretenses, in some ways it is odd to endorse the project at all. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::For the sake of example, I made some edits to the Bug template to produce [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]]. Official patches have had the word "official" removed as there's no longer a need to clarify, and mod bugfixes link to "[Namespace] Mod:Mods" to showcase my suggestion. This would rename some categories, but would no longer advertise one specific mod over others. The trackerid parameter has also been removed.

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug.|OSP|1.10.0}}

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug fixed by a mod.|SRMOD}}

::::::This isn't intended to be the final template, but hopefully is something visual that can help the discussion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 22:24, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I agree that UESP's endorsement of specific mods in gamespace is a poor decision in hindsight, particularly with Arthmoor's Oblivion and Skyrim patches. Those mods are nothing short of controversial at this point, despite their widespread use, a bit like the Morrowind Sound & Graphics Overhaul became over time.

:::::::I like where Samantha is going with idea of hiding the name and version of the patch while preserving the metadata in the page's source. It may look even cleaner to remove the sub-bullet and add some sort of parenthical superscript at the end of the bug description via the template. In any case, hiding version numbers is a good idea because no general reader cares which version fixed a bug—they just use the latest version. It's only good for editors to find the relevant changelog sometime in the future. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::I agree that de-emphasizing any single bug fixing mod over others is definitely the right way to go. However I do think for people that have run into the bug, knowing which mod would fix it for them would still be valuable to include somehow, but in a way that multiple mods can be listed that makes sense, at least for bugs that impede quest progress or otherwise soft-lock you out of quests. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 03:03, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::I created [[User:Samantha Says/Bug/Mods|this page]] to show what linking to a collection of bugfixing mods could look like. It could be under <samp>Namespace Mod:Bugfixes</samp> for each game, or a single compilation page like the already existing [[Mod:Main Page]] article. The user experience in this case when reading an article would be: they see the bug, they see that unofficial mods fix the issue, and then can explore a non-exhaustive collection of bugfix projects that tackle various issues, giving them a point in the right direction for modifying their game. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 21:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

{{od}}I am in support of this proposal, provided that the policy is applied evenly across all game namespaces (i.e., remove UOP, UORP, and UORPD from Oblivion namespace, remove MPP, MCP, PfP, and OpenMW from Morrowind namespace, remove DFQFIX from Daggerfall namespace, remove every single reference to a specific mod for a specific bugfix). — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 21:35, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

:On a sidenote relating to the subject of mods and bug fixes, I believe the article [[Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] shouldn't even exist. It is unnecessary, as UESP generally documents mods that add meaningful, playable content or address a broad range of issues. Mods that fix numerous bugs, such as the [[Skyrim Mod:Unofficial Skyrim Patch|Unofficial Skyrim Patch]], are relevant because of their wide impact and significance to gameplay. By contrast, this mod addresses only a single, isolated issue, which makes it less suitable for inclusion on UESP. [[User:KevinM|KevinM]] ([[User_Talk:KevinM|talk]]) 06:39, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

::For whatever reason, I wasn't notified of updates here. So time to catch up on replies.
::I like the idea of Samantha's template especially with usage of the Bugfix Mod Collection page they made, and genuinely think that's the way to go. I also agree with Wolfborn, that we should apply this evenly across all gamespaces. With Samantha's bugfix collection page this'll be even easier to do.
::I'd also like to offer another idea for the bug/issue distinction. The term bug could be reserved for issues fixed by (official) patches, while anything modified or changed by "bug fix mods" could be called a tweak.

::* "Skyrim Patch version 1.10.0 fixes this bug."
::* "Unofficial Mods are available that can fix this bug." <-- If it fixes the same bug as above
::* "Unofficial Mods are available that can tweak this item" <-- If doesn't fix something officially recognized as a bug. This would resolve issues with subjective "bug fixes" such as Redbelly Mine

::So, '''Current Proposal'''
::- We implement Samantha's tweaked bugfix template. No singular mod is mentioned as fixing bugs anymore, instead linking to another UESP page listing various bugfix mods in each game. This makes it so UESP no longer "endorses" mods, some of which may or may not be seen as controversial, whilst allowing the content to remain and also doubling as a repository of various bug fix mods.

::I would like additional thoughts on a bug/tweak distinction as well
::[[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 13:48, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:::I don't think that it needs to be noted that a mod fixes a bug if it has been fixed by an official patch. The only time it would make sense to see this would be in remakes, for example a bug fixed in Oblivion Remastered but not the original.

:::I would suggest that "tweaks" would mean inconsistencies that go in an article's Notes section, rather than the Bugs section, and should probably not mention mods that address them. To use [[Skyrim:Redbelly Mine|Redbelly Mine]] as an example, the page currently says "the thick red mist described by the miners living in Shor's Stone is not present; the mine is clear inside." I wouldn't call this is a bug as there is no obvious typo in the cell's fog data, nor is there a demonstrable misclick that could have resulted in a red mist not being applied. Without those, this feels like a simple inconsistency (that could even be explained in-universe). This also applies to the infamous ore distribution; with no clear typo or misclick, it just becomes an inconsistency between dialogue and the cell itself, of which there are clearly many interpretations for how this could be explained.

:::I disagree that the term bug should be reserved for issues fixed by official patches, as there are unfixed bugs — especially in the older games — that can prevent quest progression or even crash the game, which are important to note for readers. I would rather define a bug on the {{tl|Bug}} doc page as a way to resolve subjective bugs being listed. This definition can be expanded in the future, but a good starting point would be:

:::*Causes game instability or crashes.
:::*Prevents or delays quest or mechanic progression.
:::*An inconsistency caused by a clear typo, for example [[Oblivion:Boots of Order|Boots of Order's]] heavy weight being 1.5 which clearly doesn't fit in the sequence.
:::*An inconsistency caused by a demonstrable misclick, for example [[Oblivion:Ra'Jhan|Ra'Jhan]] has Ra'Jahirr's house key and his bedroom door is owned by Ra'jiradh, both of which are right next to Ra'Jhan's listing in the Construction Set.
:::[[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 17:32, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

::::Does anyone else have an opinion on whether the article [[Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] should be kept on UESP? I created a deletion review [[UESPWiki:Deletion Review/Skyrim Mod:Banner Clipping Fix for Windhelm Palace of the Kings]] some time ago, but no one else commented. I then asked about it on the UESP Discord and was told I should bring the topic up here, since the discussion concerns mods and bug fixes. [[User:KevinM|KevinM]] ([[User_Talk:KevinM|talk]]) 23:11, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that the policy should be applied evenly across all gamespaces. I also agree with Samantha's definition of a bug. Restricting the term to bugs that have been officially recognised and fixed seems inadequate. In some cases, a bug that existed since launch might not get patched until much later, and it seems strange to claim that it only became a bug at that point. Mods that also include tweaks and subjective 'fixes' should be identified as such, either on the collection page or their own individual pages. As for the point Kevin raised, this proposal is likely to result in more bugfix mods getting individual pages, so I guess it depends how comprehensive we want the list to be. [[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 01:44, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::I agree with the proposal to implement a generic "bugfix" template and remove all mention of specific unofficial third-party mods from vanilla gamespace pages. It is not the purpose or function of the wiki to recommend or endorse any one individual mod for any specific purpose, and mentioning mods by name may be seen or interpreted by readers as doing so.

::::::I agree with Samantha that game "tweaks" (as opposed to clear bugfixes) should ''not'' be noted on vanilla namespace pages. There are literally thousands of mods which make thousands of "tweaks" to the vanilla games for various reasons; to note every instance would be impractical. Documenting the "tweaks" made by various mods is exactly what modspace is for.

::::::Regarding KevinM's question about a specific mod, the noted mod should remain documented on the wiki. The fact that it is a small, purpose-made mod to fix a single issue should not be a deciding factor in whether it should remain. The wiki should not discriminate either for or against the documentation of any individual mod as, again, it is not the place or purpose of the wiki to judge, rate, endorse, or recommend mods.
::::::— [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 03:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} On further thinking, I am in agreement with Samantha about the tweak-bug thing. Having a standardized "what counts as a bug" style guide page is a much better way of going about things. I'm very much on board with their counter proposals and ideas to my own and think they're the way to go.

'''Current Proposal'''

We implement (and re-iterate if needed) Samantha's tweaked bugfix template (ex: [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]] ). No singular mod is mentioned as fixing bugs anymore, instead linking to another UESP page listing various bugfix mods in each game (ex: [[User:Samantha Says/Bug/Mods|this page]] ). This makes it so UESP no longer "endorses" mods, some of which may or may not be seen as controversial, whilst allowing the content to remain and also doubling as a repository of various bug fix mods.

This policy is applied evenly across all gamespaces instead of solely to Skyrim's.

We create a bug fix style guide page showing examples of what we should consider a bug. Following Samantha's starting point ideas as a base, which I will copy below here for readability:
{{NewLine}}
*Causes game instability or crashes.
*Prevents or delays quest or mechanic progression.
*An inconsistency caused by a clear typo, for example [[Oblivion:Boots of Order|Boots of Order's]] heavy weight being 1.5 which clearly doesn't fit in the sequence.
*An inconsistency caused by a demonstrable misclick, for example [[Oblivion:Ra'Jhan|Ra'Jhan]] has Ra'Jahirr's house key and his bedroom door is owned by Ra'jiradh, both of which are right next to Ra'Jhan's listing in the Construction Set.

I hope this is something we can agree and start getting to work on. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 05:41, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:That all seems reasonable. To clarify my earlier point on tweaks, which I don't think came across clearly, I meant that if a mod contains both tweaks and bugfixes (particularly if it's a broad-based one like USP etc) the description should make this clear so users can make their own minds up.—[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:39, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

::I am very happy with this proposal and am willing to put in the work to go through existing articles to remove questionable bug fixes, move inappropriate bugs to Notes sections, and flesh out the definition of a bug. I have also added the proposed definition to the proposed template. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:::The only question I would have now (which is essentially a rewording of a point I made earlier) is how to identify which mod fixes which bug without the mod's page turning into a duplicate of that mod's changelog. Say that we end up adding more bugfix compilations than just USSEP to the list - which would be a logical extension of this activity - how do I know whether a specific bug is fixed by USSEP, USMP, WAACCF or SLAWF? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:26, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

::::That is something that will be lost in the current proposal. I'm not sure if there would be a way to achieve that without turning the Bugs section of pages into "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." Personally I would prefer the current proposal over the existing Bug template and over listing multiple mods in the gamespaces. I designed the proposed template accepting that the functionality of promoting specific bugfix mods to the user would be lost. It does at least gives users a point in the right direction on where to find bugfixing mods, for what that's worth. It felt too far a step in the other direction to remove all references to bugfixing mods entirely, though I wouldn't object to it. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 00:05, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but doesn't practically every bug in some of these games have a mod that fixes it? Seems like a redundancy to say "There is a mod that fixes this" under every listed bug in a game like Skyrim where the modding community is so vast that every consistent feature is altered, let alone the inconsistencies. I'd be fine with axing the mod mentions all-together. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 01:32, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::I'll be happy if there is enough support for the original Option 3, where references to USSEP and other bugfix mods are removed entirely. Personally, I just want ''something'' done to remove what feels like a site-wide advertisement of USSEP, whether that's by making the "This is fixed by [mod]" text more vague or removing it entirely. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 01:40, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::On Option 3, then what's the point listing bugs if all we do is saying a bug is fixable? If we list all bug fixing mods in a page and direct all fixable bugs to this page are readers supposed to search on all those mods and find the one that fixes it? This does not seem helpful at all. On the other hand if what we do is to assume the reader knows that U**P is the default bug fixing mod unless they want to dive deeper then is this not the same as promoting U**P without saying the thing? I support the "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." approach even if it seems redundant. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:13, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::Just to clarify, the original Option 3 would be removing the "This bug is fixed by..." line entirely unless it is fixed in an official patch. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

{{OD}}
To provide another example, I've created a [[User:Samantha Says/Bug2|second template]] that removes the "This bug is fixed by [mod]" line entirely. It is backwards compatible with existing pages that say it is fixed by mods. For example:
<pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|OSSEP}}
</pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|OSSEP}}

<pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|USSEP}}
</pre>
{{User:Samantha Says/Bug2|There's something wrong.|USSEP}}

This approach follows the original Proposal Three, purging all references to USSEP, and goes further to cover all modded content. I think if we're removing one problematic bugfix mod from gamespace, removing all of them would be wise to prevent a similar situation from happening in the future. This approach is also much simpler than trying to be fair to every bugfix mod out there and trying to ensure that they are all equally highlighted. The documentation has been updated to include a definition of a bug, which can be adjusted as deemed fit, as well as the parameters section being slightly edited for the ones deprecated. Do we think this would be a good solution? [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 21:47, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

: Proposal 3 (nuking bug fix mods, but specifically USSEP) was always my more desired option, so i'm perfectly fine with that! Whether we go for bug fix compendium (losing specific mod fix mentions on individual pages) or removing mod fix mentions entirely, I'm in agreement. I just do not feel it is wise to have UESP continue to advertise mods this way. They can still make their own namespace like many others do regardless. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 23:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

:: I haven't read this entire discussion, but as a new player and new wiki user, I oppose the removal of the word "official" for the official patches. Learning how to play Skyrim and trying to find what you're looking for on the wiki is confusing enough (especially with the lack of centralized pages in the wiki!!!). The word official assures me that it's an actual official patch and not a mod. Plus, why do all that work to remove one word wiki-wide when that one word isn't hurting anything ? Seems like a lot of busy-work. Re: USSEP, I have liked seeing what things that mod "fixes" on the pages, because I find it interesting, although I don't use any mods because I play on Amazon Luna so I don't think I can use mods ??? Plus it seems like keeping the info would be very useful for wiki users who do use mods or that mod in particular (I assume most users who mod their game DO use that mod??). But I understand why the wiki wouldn't want to advertise one mod over all others.

:: " However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach." . . . UESP allows deleting things off the Talk pages ? Another wiki that I frequent does NOT allow things to be deleted from talk pages or even the user's own talk pages and the patrollers enforce that. - [[Special:Contributions/2603:6081:5901:43E9:A12E:FF54:25BC:8562|2603:6081:5901:43E9:A12E:FF54:25BC:8562]] 13:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I see what you mean regarding the Official term, and I am fine with keeping it for those reasons if others agree. As for the talk page comments, they are against UESP rules to be deleted yes- that is exactly why I pointed it out as an example of Arthmoor's behaviour. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 15:09, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: "This bug is fixed by Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4, Mod5, and Mod6." is a much more useful opproach than removing them all. By removing them all we are not promoting certain mods but what do users gain? An almost useless section of bugs that they still need to search for ways to fix it, albeit more difficult than before. Treat all mods equally and list them all actually benefits users so those who are against Arthmoor and his project can have other choices shown to them. [[User:Lywzc|Lywzc]] ([[User talk:Lywzc|talk]]) 16:23, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: One issue with listing them all is simply because of USSEP's abuse towards smaller mods, abusing strike systems and using general harassment to get them taken down. On the other hand, I personally do not believe most people are using UESP to find fixes for specific mods. It's much easier to just search "gamename bug desc mod fix reddit". But this is personal bias and would require more data. I am fine with either approach, and do still think just linking to a bug modfix repository page is a good way to go[[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 16:32, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::: I'm in favor of nuking all references to external third-party mods on gamespace pages. I don't care one way or the other about Arthmoor as a person or what he does or doesn't do that causes controversy, but it has been something that has slightly bothered me for years and years that we are explicitly endorsing third-party modifications to the game on the gamespace pages. The UESPWiki's job should be to document the games as they ship from Bethesda. Listing bugs and saying "This is fixed by Patch X.xx.yy" in reference to official patches is the most I think we should be doing. If there is a bug that is marked on the page, I don't think the burden is on UESPWiki to notate what mods, if any, fix any given bug. The modspace pages are there for documenting mods the wiki community deems worth documenting and the Unofficial Patch mods can live there, but the gamespace pages should be for documenting official Bethesda content. If someone wants to look up how to fix certain bugs, they can Google it. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 02:02, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is it time to merge the Shivering namespace into the Oblivion namespace? ==

This was discussed many years ago, and it was decided not to go ahead with it. However, with the release of Oblivion Remastered I think it's time. The Dragonborn namespace was merged into the Skyrim namespace after the release of the Special Edition, when Dragonborn was fully integrated into the base game. Shivering Isles is now in the same position: Remastered fully integrates it into the base game, so I would say that the namespaces should now be merged.

It also brings up the question of Morrowind. It's obviously not in the same situation as Oblivion and Skyrim (for now), but I don't know if it makes sense to treat it differently.

[[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 21:33, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

:I've never been a fan of the expansion namespaces. It's especially frustrating when I want to compare equipment in Morrowind and have to open three different pages just to see what's available. With the release of Oblivion Remastered, I think makes sense to merge Shivering into Oblivion space, and therefore I agree that Morrowind being treated uniquely out of all of the games would be unusual and warrant merging its expansion namespaces too. As a user, I find superscripts like Dragonborn{{Dragonborn}} and Creation Club's{{CC}} to work perfectly in letting me know that something in the article belongs to an expansion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:52, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::From what I have heard, the Dragonborn namespace merge was quite a bit of work. I wasn't around yet for that, but if true, we should get ahead while we can. When TES VI releases we'll have much great priorities than this so it's better to do this sooner rather than later. The precedent put forth by Sheridan seems valid, seems like the exact same thing as Special Edition, so for consistency, we should have Shivering stuff in the main Oblivion-space. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 00:02, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I'd also support the merge, long thought we should have done this. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: Merging namespaces is a massive amount of wiki work that needs a dedicated team for its feasibility. Many articles within the expansion pack namespaces aren't even complete in their own right, especially Morrowind's expansion packs. Articles that still need images, dialogue, and even need to be wiki-fied in the first place. I understand the desire for simplicity that comes from the merging of the expansion spaces, but I do not see a large enough payoff in the improvement of the reader's access to the site in such projects relative to the massive effort it will require; unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams. I am not inherently opposed to this happening to namespaces, but I believe gamespace for Oblivion and Morrowind both have many larger issues that need addressing before this is seriously considered. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 01:26, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that they should be merged as the expansion is base game now due to Oblivion remastered.--[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 02:16, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::Of course, I appreciate it's a lot of work, especially for a purely volunteer website. But if we leave them as is, then there will be an incongruity between the Oblivion and Skyrim namespaces. And let's say that from TES VI onwards we decide to keep all expansions in the main namespace from the beginning. Morrowind and Oblivion will become increasingly anachronistic. And the Dragonborn Merge Project obviously suffered from having to figure everything out for the first time. Now that we know what to do, it will simplify the process at least a little bit. I just think that there's a good chance that the merges will end up being inevitable, depending on our approach to future games and their DLC. It's better to start early, since as [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] points out TES VI will obviously become the main priority when it releases. Even if it is still years away. Right now there's not a lot going on in TES world, apart from new content for ESO. If not now, when? [[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 13:43, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::The "when" is already described in my message above - "unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams."
:::::::As I've laid out above, these namespaces are already neglected by editors as is. To put in perspective, the UESP started an effort to document every item in each game on individual pages in their namespaces last year, and this project has seen almost zero progress since its announcement due to a fundamental lack of editors simply contributing to it in the first place.
:::::::Who are we proposing do all of this work? I do not believe it would be fair to expect the very few active editors in gamespace to put this on their plate without any plans or commitment from the wider community. Wanting the merge to happen is great, but a want is not enough to produce results. Again - I do not see the net benefit to our readers in comparison to instead sourcing and spending such massive effort on actually completing documentation in these namespaces in the first place. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 14:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:The merging for Oblivion would also make sense from a technical perspective as, unlike the Morrowind or Skyrim expansions, the Shivering Isles content was added to oblivion.esm directly. There's no shivering.esm like there are tribunal.esm, bloodmoon.esm, dawnguard.esm, hearthfire.esm, and dragonborn.esm. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 14:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::What I think is being misunderstood here is why the Dragonborn-Skyrim namespace merge finally ended up happening. It wasn't because the esms merged, at least not directly. The main issue was that Skyrim continued to get new content through the Creation program, and that new content was using bits an pieces from Dragonborn and Skyrim equally, so it was nearly impossible to figure out where exactly to place a quest. Something might start in Solstheim, then move to Skyrim proper, or vice versa, with equal bits of each.

::This just isn't the case for the remaster. Things are pretty clearly still delineated between SI and OB content, and the small number of new quests added have stuck to one area. There isn't a bunch of other random new official content being added to the game (at least, as far as we are currently aware), so there isn't a real reason to merge them at this time. It's a back end thing that really doesn't affect most editors or readers, and so the amount of effort involved (which ended up being significantly more than expected) is just not worth it. People want the merge just because they want it. But what it really boils down to is not typing two different letters for some pages. That's just not a good enough reason for all the effort, and a botched merge could be devastating for the wiki. It's not all that easy to just "undo" if it goes wrong. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:12, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::At this point a merge isn't worth the hassle. As Jeancey said above, the Dragonborn merge happened not because of Special Edition, but because of Creation Club, where they started releasing content that could no longer be delineated. As far as I know, the additional content in OB Remastered Deluxe is contained entirely within Cyrodiil, and doesn't cross over to the Isles at all, like Knights of the Nine.

:::While we've already agreed that we won't do separate namespaces for DLCs and expansions in the future, where separate namespaces already exist, the only viable reason to remove such a delineation is when the delineation itself is no longer viable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:03, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::This merge would be the ideal state of the wiki if all work could be done flawlessly with a bot. But it can't. Considering that number of edits dropped 78% from 2024 to 2025, the idea is effectively dead in the water. Renaming so many core content pages also carries negative effects by breaking external links and may be bad for search engine optimization, at least in the short term. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::Dillonn said exactly what I was thinking. While in some respects, having Oblivion all as one namespace might be ideal, we learned from the Dragonborn merge just how much work that is, especially for the bot programmers. I'm chronically ill and have made a point of cutting back on the amount of work I'm doing. I don't see it being feasible, at least not for me, to go through all that effort when there's very little gain, and it would introduce the SEO and link-breaking issues Dillonn mentioned. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:36, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace ==

Proposal: Modern Dialogue Formatting for the Blades Namespace

Hello everyone. I'm proposing, with a proof of concept prototype, of a way to wrap all the dialogue on the Bladespace into neat little dialogue boxes that are cleaner, more compact and directly show the difference between conversation partners. (For the short version, [[User:Probored1/Sandbox2|just open this page]] and scroll down to see the dialogue box in question.)

I’d like to open a discussion about improving how we present dialogue across the Blades namespace. I know you're all used to it by now but give me a chance to lay my case. The current system, using colon indents (: / ::) along with two italicized apostrophes for NPC lines and three bold apostrophes for player lines has worked for a long time, after all no one has felt the need to change it after 30 years.

However, I find it increasingly unsatisfying. Long conversations turn into either densely crammed or porous walls of text that are hard to follow. The visual distinction between NPC and non-dialogue lines feels dated and inconsistent, and readability on mobile is often poor. While some namespaces have nicer custom dialogue layouts ([[Battlespire:Scamp|Battlespire being the best example]]), and others have attempted to build their own (See: [[User:Salamangkero/Template 1|Gheart's and Salamangkero's proposal for Morrowind]]), those approaches are too manual and were created simply to present data in a nicer flow rather than actually present it. As we're building up the Blades namespace, from which dialogue input into its pages is still relatively in its infancy, we've got a chance to build a primary dialogue wrapper first to then apply to the rest of the pages.

At the moment; take a look at [[Blades:Saashi]]. It is a mess of dialogue where you need to strain and recenter your eyes everytime to find out what is a normal text line and which one is italicized, and thats not even mentioning how messy trying to figure out where the indents could be on the longer conversations.

Here is an example taken from the page:

╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗

====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."''

╚════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

To address this messiness, I created a working proof-of-concept built within [[Template:DialogueTreeSetup]], which uses [[Module:DialogueTreeSetup]] (built with the existing Scribunto Lua extension).The usage is very simple. You wrap all your existing dialogue like this (without the \):

<pre>{{DialogueTreeSetup: <all your text here> }}</pre>

A simple wrapper that goes around your entire text without changing any of it, but using the already existing model of colons, indents and apostrophes to build the new model. Heres what it looks like:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/User:Probored1/Sandbox2

Compare the above to its original

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Blades:Saashi

In fact I'll even post an example here.

╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
<pre>
{{DialogueTreeSetup:

====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."'

}}
'</pre>

╚════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

turns into:

{{DialogueTreeSetup|
====Hidden Mysteries====

:''"Saashi is devastated by the devastation here. The Founder's Statue that got destroyed... Did you know it was created back in the First Era? Why would anyone destroy such an ancient artifact?"''
:'''Maybe the answer is in the tunnels below the town...'''
::''"Tunnels? What tunnels?"''
::'''The villagers found them while clearing out the rubble.'''
:::''"Those galleries were likely built by the Ayleids themselves! We have to go down there to see what we can find."''

You can offer to go in for her, or have her go in on her own.
:::'''I'll go first, and make sure it's safe.'''
::::''"Yes, that's probably for the best!"''

:::'''Let me know what's down there.'''
::::''"Perhaps <PlayerName> could go first? Just... Just in case."''

If spoken to again:
:''"Please tell Saashi when you have explored the tunnels!"''

:'''I'm ready to go.'''
::''"Good! Be careful down there!"''

:'''Yes, I will.'''
::''"All right, then."''

After Hidden Mysteries, you can tell her what you found.
:''"So, what did you find?"''
:'''An ancient tomb, lots of undead, and an empty sarcophagus.'''
:''"An... Ayleid sarcophagus?"''
:'''Looked pretty old, but it was opened only recently.'''
:''"It is possible there was some sort of warding enchantment on the statue. Destroying the statue would have broken the spell, and released whatever was trapped in there. That would explain the burst of magick energy that people witnessed."
:''"Saashi will see for herself to find out more. Now that it is safe. By the way, old [[BL:Henrik Seven-Swords|Henrik Seven-Swords]] was looking for you earlier. You should seek him out near the West Gate."''}}

Does this look better? I hope it does. I vibecoded it so its got some documentation issues, but it uses the Lua Scribunto extension thats already on the wiki. It automatically converts old <pre>:</pre> <pre>''</pre> <pre>'''</pre> dialogue into clean, boxed sections. It uses background (#efe1bc) thats usually used for code blocks. It distinguishes based off of color NPC lines from Player lines. It converts automatically the following : , :: , '' , ''' , /n and without any user input. Its basically something you can copy paste at a page without worrying about reformatting the whole thing. I made it so that it works with the already existing dialogue format, and that you can still use it without changing a single thing about it.It detects when a line of dialogue doesnt start with a : or :: and immediately stops the dialogue box to let the wiki text work without interference. It works with ===Headlines=== tooIts got much tighter and more professional appearance with minimal whitespace and colorblind-friendly contrastAgain, it works with your existing workflow, just wrap the old text.

However, there is one major limitation: performance. I can use it for this page because I only wrapped a small amount of text. But on larger pages (such as Blades:Saashi), it takes a whopping '''11 seconds''' for the page to load for me. This makes it completely unacceptable for site wide use in its present form. I was told a PHP extension using the same logic would bring load times down to roughly 2–4 seconds, which would make it practical.I am thus ''not'' proposing this as a finished solution yet, but something like this does deserve a discussion. I would appreciate your thoughts on the general direction and visual style. Would you be open to a PHP extension of this dialogue wrapper as the base template for all Blades pages? Are there any changes to the colors, spacing, or behavior you would like to see? Would you like to see it in other spaces? I’m happy to refine it based on feedback. Thank you for taking the time to read this. [[User:Probored1|Probored1]] ([[User talk:Probored1|talk]]) 03:04, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:'''Lightly Oppose''': This is an interesting proposal, and I commend the work done on the Lua-based template! That said, I see a few cracks in this idea.

:First, a correction: The current dialogue formatting used on most namespaces is not 30 years old. I believe it's as old as the ESO namespace. Before that, UESP focused on in-line dialogue conversations, especially for ''Oblivion'' ([https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:Permalink/2744956 Example]), and it was awful for scannability. It was only a few years ago that these started being converted over. Concerning the proposal, I don't see much of an issue with the standard format that would justify adding even one extra second of load times to pages, let alone two to four seconds at best with PHP. Load times are one of the most important SEO metrics, and also bog down both the reader and editor experience, making clicking around the namespace a pain. Is there a way to implement this using CSS or JavaScript instead? Perhaps it can be an optional gadget for readers who need the extra visual separation of dialogue blocks.

:As for your specific styling itself, am I missing something or is this simply adding color to the bold text and a background color box around the block? That's introducing various related issues like dark mode compatibility, WCAG accessibility e.g. contrast standards, and the clunkiness of having code blocks everywhere. The dialogue sections of pages are virtually all dialogue except for a short intro phrase. This also adds another step to documenting dialogue, which I expect should be kept as simple as possible considering Blades documentation is on a tight deadline. Improved formatting can wait until after the shutdown. Another issue is sitewide consistency; for example, colors have a specific meaning in some ESO dialogue and could potentially see expanded uses in other namespaces to reflect different types of choices.

:In any case, I don't want this post to sound negative, and I think you're doing a good job looking for ways to improve the site's visuals. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 04:10, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

::Regarding the dark mode compatibility, as well as the unmentioned mobile functionality, this can be addressed with CSS with only small Lua tweaks in much the same way all the other template formatting is done. (I mostly just need to get a spare 30 minutes to look at it.) '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 05:15, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

UESPWiki:Community Portal

2026-03-13T03:03:52Z

Kiz: /* Proposal: On the (potential) de-listing of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (from gamespace) */ cmt

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|Project:Community Portal/Archive 49|Archive 49|Apr 2016 – Aug 2016
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 50|Archive 50|Aug 2016 – Oct 2016
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 51|Archive 51|Nov 2016 – May 2017
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 52|Archive 52|Jun 2017 – Dec 2017
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 53|Archive 53|Dec 2017 – Jul 2018
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 54|Archive 54|Aug 2018 – Dec 2018
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 55|Archive 55|Jan 2019 – Dec 2019
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 56|Archive 56|Dec 2019 – Dec 2020
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 57|Archive 57|Jan 2021 – Aug 2021
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 58|Archive 58|Sep 2021 – Feb 2023
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 59|Archive 59|Feb 2023 – Jan 2024
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 60|Archive 60|Jan 2024 – Dec 2024
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 61|Archive 61|Jan 2025 – Jul 2025
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This is the '''Community Portal''', the main discussion forum for community-wide discussions about [[UESPWiki:About|UESP]]'s operations, policies, design, and improvement.

All members of the community are welcome to contribute to this page. Please sign and date your post by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar. If you would like to start a new post, please place it at the bottom of the page with a two-tier (==) heading.

'''Before starting a discussion here''', please review the other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.
<table id="genMidColor" style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:
{{Bullet Link|[[:Category:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]|A list of policies and guidelines, which each have individual pages; their talk pages are the best place to discuss these policies (see [[#Active Discussions|Active Discussions]] for links to active policy discussions).}}
{{Bullet Link|Administrator Noticeboard|If you have a request that requires an [[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrator]], you may want to post your comments there.}}
{{Bullet Link|Deletion Review|An area to discuss controversial page deletions and reach a consensus.}}
{{Bullet Link|Reference Desk|This is the best place for questions about how to play Elder Scrolls games.}}
Specific requests can be made on these pages:
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{{Bullet Link|Image Requests|You can request specific images for articles here.}}
{{Bullet Link|Creation Kit Information Requests|You can request specific Creation Kit information for articles here.}}
{{Bullet Link|New Page Requests|You can request a new page here if you were prevented from creating the page yourself.}}
{{Bullet Link|Purge Requests|If you are having problems viewing an article on UESP, the page may need to be purged. New purge requests can be made here.}}
In addition, past discussions from the Community Portal can be found at:
{{Bullet Link|[[/Archives|CP Archives]]|Lists all of the past discussions from the Community Portal page, including major discussions and chronlogical archives.}}
</td></tr></table>

;<big>Active Discussions</big>
Many discussions of community-wide interest are held on pages other than the community portal. Discussions about specific policies belong on the policy talk pages, for example. The following table lists other discussions that are currently in progress on other talk pages. If you start a discussion on another talk page, please add it to this list. If a discussion listed here has been inactive (i.e., no comments of any type in at least a week), please remove it from the list.

{| class="wikitable"
! Location !! Date started !! Topic !! Listed here by

|-
| [[Template_talk:Online_Quest_Header#Storyline_Parameter|Online Quest Header]] || 5/19/2025 || Storyline Parameter|| [[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]]
|-
|}

== Port Starfield Place Logic ==

Currently NPCs have a "loc" field which is text and is typically a link to a location. There is a desire to build automatic "People" tables which are derived from data so that we move away from large templates to represent the people in a location. In Starfield wiki, there is a "In Place" template which populates the Metatemplate variables with information about the place, and then this data is pulled by the Starfield People tables.

The In Place template is used extensively in various summary templates (like NPC Summary, where it replaces the loc parameter), however it can be used independently if an NPC can appear in multiple places.

* [https://starfieldwiki.net/wiki/Template:In_Place In Place Template]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Autopeople Autopeople template, which uses the data]
* [https://starfieldwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Starfield:Cydonia_People&action=edit Example Usage]

While copying over this logic is very simple, migration of current NPC pages is a much larger task which will likely be mostly manual. For example, many NPCs only have their primary location on their summary page, however each location that they can appear (temples, inns, etc) will also have the NPC information on it. All of this data would need to be consolidated to the NPC table for the data to be consistent.

In addition to this, to have automated People tables, a "Services" parameter will need to be added to the NPC pages, however that is a much more minor change.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]])
: The notion of all of that information being duplicated as is sounds like a ringing endorsement for changing it so it's in only one place to me.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]])

::I think this makes sense - anything that reduces duplication is a good plan. Looks like "place" in the Starfield NPC Summary wraps the In Place template but is still overridden when "loc" is defined, so nothing would break immediately and we can take the time to decide which things do and don't need to be edited. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:57, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::In Starfield Wiki, I just kinda migrated one list of people at a time to have place and be auto-generated, until I ran out of lists to migrate. It was a pretty clean transition. Also added a category (Starfield-NPCs_Without_Place) to try to figure out where the rest were as many were not on any People lists. It certainly doesn't have to be some big "Do it quick as everything is broken until it's done" kind of transition.--[[User:Tlupes|Tlupes]] ([[User talk:Tlupes|talk]]) 21:39, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::: I don't like this suggestion as-is. The "loc" parameter is not strictly defined enough to be useable for auto-populating People tables. See for instance the [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online:Molag_Kena&oldid=3381525 rich formatting] on [[Online:Molag Kena]]. If we already need to add a "Services" parameter to pages for this to work, then we need a second, stricter location parameter as well. To me, that seems like too much work to replace what is currently there. I don't see any issue with manually populating our People tables as desired, particularly when most of our namespaces have a (fairly arbitrary) "People vs NPCs" distinction. Those tables are not hard to maintain and are pretty much static for the older games. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::I agree with Legoless. We should at least try this on the test wiki before implementing anything, particularly with regards to ESO: we distinguish between generic NPCs and non-generics. Generic NPCs don't go in the People table in Online articles, they're typically noted in the paragraph following the infobox. Additionally, the loc field is not a reliable place for us to be getting headers for People tables: some NPCs in towns and such have very specific and arbitrary locations, like "West of (CityName's Stable)". Like Legoless said, the rich text throws a wrench in there. It's often necessary rich text, too. We also can't just pull strictly from Online links in the loc parameter to sort NPCs under People table headings: some NPCs have stuff like "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" in their loc parameter. That's two Online links in the loc parameter: would the automated process try to put the NPC under both places, or make a new header? "Between the (Crafting Station Plaza Name) and the (CityName Mages Guildhall)" is a very arbitrary and limited heading, and while we often do file NPCs under arbitrary and specific headings, it's much easier to manage them when People pages are created manually.

:::::ESO's People pages are also mostly finished: yes, new content is being developed yearly, but there aren't a lot of NPCs who need to be put on a people table at this point. Most of the legwork lies in putting the People tables from smaller locations like [[Online:Fharun Stronghold|Fharun Stronghold]] on their own pages. I do appreciate the effort to try and make things easier, but this could hurt more than it helps. If this were suggested earlier in ESO's lifespan, I'd have less objections to it, but at this point, it seems unnecessary to port everything like this when the system we already have works. —[[User:MolagBallet|MolagBallet]] ([[User talk:MolagBallet|talk]]) 15:31, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

== Item Redesign Project Proposal ==

Hello, I'd like to discuss a project I've worked on a little bit on my own, but would like to greatly expand and formalize a little. The Item Redesign Project would aim to fill in the largest gap remaining in UESP coverage of The Elder Scrolls as a whole, and the most requested area of coverage the UESP regularly receives from readers. This will also benefit the UESP itself by improving its SEO. Most of the pages that would be worked on or created for this project would help UESP be more easily found by people searching, as sites that don't have specific pages rank low compared to ones that do. We'd essentially be starting to compete for item page rankings finally.

The focus of this project will be documenting, expanding, improving, and creating pages related to items. There are multiple steps to this, and multiple things to consider.

The overall goal would be to move away from just having list articles, to having actual articles for items, along with maintaining and improving existing lists, while also creating more. Most of this work will be for Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO, but other games may be worth considering for this project.

===First Steps===
The first goal towards this will be a bot run to mark existing item pages as in the scope of this project, and considered for making sure it will match our site standards for items and standardize them. There will also be a series of bot run to create new start articles. I personally was against this recently, but an argument from Legoless really opened my eyes to why we should consider doing this. If we had made these pages years ago, we'd have had years worth of edits to improve upon them. If you (the UESP) build(s) it, they (editors) will come. There is just an extra degree of unwillingness for a person to create a page from scratch over improving an existing page. Take for instance [[Lore:Nerevarine]], an article about a fairly important character in Elder Scrolls lore, who did not have an actual lore page before last year. But after I decided to throw a blurb from [[Lore:Hero]] onto its own article, roughly 2k bytes of text, it has expanded greatly into 50k bytes of text. By simply creating an actual article, editors showed up who wanted that to be a better one.

So this means this process will ultimately involve:

*The creation of a project page for the Item Redesign Project
*Creation of a redesign template similar to previous ones for other redesign project (like [[UESPWiki:Oblivion NPC Redesign Project|OBNCRP]]).
*Creation of a [[UESPWiki:Style Guide|Style Guide]] page for items
*A series of bot runs to add the template to pages.
*A series of bot runs to create the new individual item pages.
===Item Page Improvement===
The ultimate goal of each indivdual item page will be:

*Provide a physical description of the item
*Take a picture of the item
*Present technical information (primarily through infoboxes)
*Have any enchanting-related information covered
*Cover any particularly unique strategies/options/features of the item
*Find and list any dialogue related to it
*Provide use information on the item (one existing example of this information can be found on [[Morrowind:Broom]] as an example)

I think this should ultimately create a high standard of content that is reasonably achievable by editors.
===List Pages===
[[File:MW-item-War Axes.jpg|thumb|right|An example of a group image, useful for a list page]]We can also provide improvements for list pages, primarily by identifying gaps in what people might want for list articles. For example, there was not a list for [[Oblivion:Longswords|Longswords in Oblivion]] and a few similar topics until the recent work of Eve and Leopard. These definitely make sense as a target for lists, and there are certainly more like these out there still. One other example comes from [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild Armor Set]], which I created towards trying to present a high quality page that lists all relevant information related to an item set. It provides images of the set, how to acquire it, a condensed table with info on the set, common info related to all items, and then the individual pages for each item of the set. I think this would be a good standard for any similar set of equipment in the mainline games.

In general, I think the steps towards improving list pages would include:
*Identifying missing list pages that may be desirable
*Providing general information about the list (for example, providing UESP editor written descriptions for [[Morrowind:Base Weapons]] instead of just using NPC quotes)
*Providing unique image(s) for the list (like a group set for whole sets of items similar to Morrowind efforts)

===Some Existing Pain Spots===
I also think some focus should be given to some existing pain spots. For example something that I would see as part of this would be the individual item pages for [[Online:Furnishings]]. A tremendous amount of fantastic work has been done to get these pages as documented as they are, and it is by itself one of the single biggest segments of the UESP Wiki making up almost a fourteenth of the UESP's existing page count. One of the main ways these pages could be improved is by having editors help add prose descriptions to them. Virtually every ESO furnishing has an image and infobox, but not a physical description of the item written. One step towards this could be another botrun providing a very basic description, hopefully indicating to people that one is desired. For example, one suggestion provided by The Rim of the Sky:

''<x> is a <size> <type> furnishing item in the <category> category. It is available from <main source> and other sources.''

This should be doable by a botrun. A further one written by a human is still desirable, here is an example I put together on [[Online:Petrified Watcher]].

The other major existing pain spot to my knowledge is the individual item pages for Blades. It's nice that Blades is as documented as it is, but we should be able to do a similar bot run for these items as well, and likewise getting human touch ups for the actual description. I did a few tests, [[Blades:Chaurus_Helmet_(divine)|one example]], that may be considered for both developing the bot run text as well as a minor example of human-based additions that could improve these pages.

===Final Thoughts===
This will ultimately be a very big undertaking, but starting this project will be worth it to finally fill in one of the last major gaps of UESP coverage. It will also be one of the most truly substantial bumps we can give ourselves on the SEO front. This proposal will hopefully serve as a good starting point towards the standardization of item pages, as well as for discussion about this proposed project itself. Obviously any insight or suggestions from any editors would be greatly appreciated, and I hope this is a project that the UESP will want to take part in!

One of the bigger considerations for a very significant amount of the work on the project is related to the bot side of this. I have spoken with a few people ([[User:Daveh|Daveh]] and [[User:RobinHood70|RobinHood70]]) about assisting with this project via data pulls and bot runs, and both gave pretty hopeful answers about potentially assisting us in getting those done. Use data for Morrowind, for example, has already been created, and similar bot runs have been performed before. This will give this project a decent head start towards its final goal.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you wish to join this project! --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:35, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:I have long been in support for individual item pages and fully support this proposal. Despite what some have suggested I believe it is genuinely much more helpful and not simply a means of "competing" with other wikis. It is such a useful thing that can be helpful in giving more detailed descriptions of locations and other data that I have occasionally been forced to use other wikis for when our lists weren't adequate. Of course another helpful thing will be having images of individual items. Many times have I found myself needing a picture of a specific weapon or armor piece only to see that it only exists in a group picture.
:Anyways, I digress, I support the proposal! - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 04:43, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::I'd like to add my support as well, individual item pages would be great! --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 04:50, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::I'm onboard with this project. I think it has merit, even if it's not how things have been done in the past. Anything we can do to add more content, without hindering usability, should be seriously considered. The SEO side of this shouldn't be understated; if it's going to make an appreciable difference, then it needs to happen. The scope is large, but that doesn’t necessarily make it unmanageable.
:::*A focused project design page that lays out clear examples and provides the groundwork for necessary templates and transclusions will be crucial to its success.
:::*Page creation will also need to be a key focus. Having a good base page so that those without knowledge of the project page can add information without their work going to waste is important. This will help reduce the overall work those that do know about the project may have to do. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 05:05, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::: I have long been in favour of individual item pages for the reason mentioned above by AKB: by failing to create them, we have lost out on years of crowdsourced help with tackling this daunting task. Creating these pages has been a prominent suggestion from readers since our [[UESPWiki:Survey Results/Other Comments|2012 user survey]] at the earliest. I like UESP's existing item lists for navigation, but there's never been anything stopping us from simply adding item links to those existing tables.

::::: On the above proposal, I do feel it isn't necessary to have a dialogue check on every item page when 90%+ will not have any relevant dialogue associated with them. We had discussions in the past on where best to document dialogue (quest vs NPC pages), and I think we settled on NPC pages as the home for dialogue / dialogue checks. It's an extra piece of work for editors to confirm "no" on thousands of items. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:39, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::Sounds good to me! Proper descriptions, images and location information I think would be the main reader benefit. For list pages, ideally we would be able to pull info to them from the individual pages with things like <nowiki>{{#listsaved:}}</nowiki> rather than duplicating the info on multiple pages. Regarding dialogue specifically, I also don't really think that would be necessary unless it's something like the Savant quote from Morrowind which talks about that item specifically. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:30, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I just want to say that I fully support this project and the ideas that have been presented so far. Although I don't have any suggestions, I too believe that it would vastly improve how item information is presented compared to the current format, and I look forward to seeing how this project progresses. —[[User:Leopard|Leopard]] ([[User talk:Leopard|talk]]) 14:54, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I support this project and absolutely hope and pray there will be at least a base templated sentence we can input for Furnishings, as this is a huge section as stated above. At one time, I had dreams of making each furnishing page quite robust, but not everyone had been in favor of it. Thankfully, more editors are starting to help fill in these gaps and the oft-underused sections of the Online Furnishing Summary template can now be used! '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 16:13, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} While I agree with the need for separate item pages for useful items (weapons, armor, decorations, etc), I want to call out one set of items that I believe should NOT get separate pages. ESO Contraband Items I do not believe would be helped by having separate pages. We already do really well in this regard with our updated lists, and the items don't really have any additional information that the lists provide. One thing I think we CAN do better in this regard are better pages on the contraband TYPES. Which NPCs are the sources of which contraband types, information on likelihood of drops based on difficulty, etc. In addition, I don't think we need separate pages for each part of the ESO armor styles (i.e. we don't need a separate page for Altmer Style Shoulders, Altmer Style Belt, etc.) The existing pages for Styles could be improved, namely by moving the pictures of the entire outfit from the gallery into the lead (or into the infobox maybe). There might be other types of items where a separate page doesn't really make sense, but I'd have to look into it. Off the top of my head, having separate pages for, say, Rubedite Ore and Rubedite Ingots, or for some of the junk items in ESO. The MMO nature of the game, I think, changes things for many of these item types. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:11, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:Oh yes, I 100% agree ESO should be more of an exception due to the way the game works. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 17:22, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

::A much needed change. Before I edited the wiki I was a frequent user, and it was one of my common complaints that individual item pages did not exist. Like Jeancey mentioned, some exceptions should exist.[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 01:13, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

:: I support the change, certainly helpful for many item lists, but I do agree, that some lists such as eso's contraband should stay the way it is.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 13:16, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

::: From an seo standpoint, every item should have its own page. Google lists us lower or even will list the wrong page when we don't have that. I've posted examples in the discord before. List pages aren't going away, but there's nothing wrong with having the info in both a list and on a page. This also allows for us to add more info like pictures of locations, maps where the items can be found, etc. [[User:Eckserah|Eckserah]] ([[User talk:Eckserah|talk]]) 16:13, 12 July 2025 (UTC)

== Honorary Featured Status -- Julian LeFay ==

Julian LeFay has passed away. While it is not normal procedure, I would like to propose that we grant his article honorary status as a featured article and bump it to the front page immediately. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 04:40, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
: I'm all for this. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:: Seconding this, the page has enough content but hopefully we can improve it in any way we can to better honor him. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 04:47, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::: I agree, there are few who've had as much of an impact on these games as he had and it would be a neat way to honour him. [[User:Theolaa|Theolaa]] ([[User talk:Theolaa|talk]]) 05:00, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::: Yes, of course. RIP [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 05:32, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::: Agreed.[[User:Tyrvarion|Tyrvarion]] ([[User talk:Tyrvarion|talk]]) 09:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Agree [[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 10:16, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Agree.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:52, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Featuring it now on the front page sounds like a great idea. I'm not sure what you mean by "honorary featured status", but whether or not it fits the quality of a Featured Article should be decided later, at a time when it can be considered fairly against the criteria, so it should not be categorised or starred as a Featured Article. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:03, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::: I agree. In whichever way it should be done. But at the least, immediately. '''[[User:Erorah|Erorah]]'''&ensp;[[User talk:Erorah|(talk)]] 14:34, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::: Agreed. [[User:The Entity|The Entity]] ([[User talk:The Entity|talk]]) 14:44, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Please do it. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 14:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} The [[Main Page/Featured Article|featured article]] has now been changed to Julian LeFay. Would we also like to change the Featured Image to [[Lore:Julianos|Julianos]], who was named after Julian? I would vote we display the [[:File:MER-art-The Hierophant.jpg|tarot card art]] for that, since this would be an honorary FI and the tarot card can't usually be nominated due to standard FI rules, the card itself having some really great artwork. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:23, 23 July 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, sounds fitting -- [[User:SarthesArai|SarthesArai]] [[User Talk:SarthesArai|Talk]] 19:09, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

:: +1 to snowball the Julianos FI. 20:55, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

::: +1 Julianos FI, but I might pick the TES2 statue instead since that was Julian's game. But either would be lovely. --[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 21:24, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

{{Od}} Both the FA and FI have now been updated in honor of Julian, and will remain this way for at least the next month.
It is good that we are able to pay tribute to him like this, as I don't believe many of the more casual TES fans even knew who he was. His death didn't get a lot of coverage outside of TES circles either. As the creator of one of the most popular video game series and influential fantasy worlds of contemporary times, he should definitely get more credit for his legacy, and I don't feel like just one month is enough. I would like to propose that we also update some of the site logos and wordmarks to have the subtitle "In Memory Of Julian LeFay (1965 - 2025)" or some variation of it, similar to how the Ben 10 Wiki honors one of the show creators annually in their wiki wordmark:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/e/e6/Site-logo.png/revision/20240701050232 (Check [https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Site-logo.png file history] in case link is broken)

We can put this right under the "Elder Scrolls Pages" part of our main logo. Along with [[General:Vijay Lakshman|Vijay Lakshman]], [[General:Ted Peterson|Ted Peterson]], [[General:Christopher Weaver|Christopher Weaver]], Julian is one of the few people who can be credited with co-creating the franchise this wiki is based on. In the words of Bethesda Christopher Weaver, ''"If I’m credited with giving birth to The Elder Scrolls, then Julian deserves credit as the one who fathered it."'' He still had more ideas he wanted to share on the Wayward Realms and was taken from us too soon. I propose that we add this to the wordmark until at least the end of 2025 so that more people can remember him and learn just how much he did for the series. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 20:00, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

:I'd be for the idea absolutely. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 20:06, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

::I would suggest the [[MediaWiki:Tagline|Tagline]] and maybe the [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]], rather than the logo. That would work better for screen readers as well, which can't read text if put in an image. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:39, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::Hmm, something else we could do is grab the Julian LeFay entry from [[Main Page/Did You Know|Did You Know]] and take it out of the random selection so it's permanent, rather than part of the cycle. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:50, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

::::As a reader of the UESP, in my opinion Sitenotice would be the least invasive option while also not modifying the branding like the "Your source for The Elder Scrolls..." blurb. Messing with the logo wouldn't be ideal in my opinion since the text already on it is hard to clearly read on some smaller devices as it is since its colors blend into the logo like they do already. More text on the logo would just make it look more cluttered and muddy in my opinion. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 13:35, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I think putting the LeFay entry in the DYK blurb for the rest of the year could be a good move. I'm not on board with Sitenotice as a substitute since its purpose is in the name of being a Notice, any "notice" related to this would be the news article, unless we know what to link in the notice like say [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefay-passes-away-at-59 Imperial Library's touching tribute] I don't think its the best option. Tagline is also minimal since the font is tiny and most people just tune it out of their purview, so while I don't see it as a substitute I could see us doing something with it as well. Any concerns about the colors on the logo are solved by just making it white text with a black outline, and any concerns about it being small could be solved by making increasing the font size. Its not really about putting in everyone's face, its about modifying something consistent and sitewide to honor someone who was very important to us to show just how much they meant. We're still working on some logo mock-ups but we should have some options ready soon. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Suggestion to ban the usage of ai text generation for lore articles. ==

As we all know we are in the age of AI generation where AI has come along way and given there has been people, using ai for stuff in lore pages. With one user admitting to such in the altmer lore talk page. This could become problematic if its not addressed, its one thing to use ai for correcting grammar but to write lore page sections. I feel it like, downgrades the integrity of the uesp. So I recommend a total ban on using ai for such purposes and having a rule against the usage of ai. This spoken from a user that uses toolbarz website to generate my own ai stories but I have not once used ai to write stuff on lore articles or the uesp, using ai stuff on ones own user pages or fanfiction pages is fine but not on lore articles. There is a place for ai but I think people should be the main contributors not robots when it comes to informantion placed on lore pages. Since I've seen no sign of such a suggestion, I'm adding it in.[[User:TheVampKnight|TheVampKnight]] ([[User talk:TheVampKnight|talk]]) 01:40, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:I agree with banning the use of AI to write articles. Using AI to spellcheck is one thing, but using AI to write original prose is a big no. Right now it is nowhere near advanced enough to write about TES lore with accuracy. On top of that, the flow of AI writing never sounds natural. A lot of AI usage is also theft, since AI only knows how to copy and rearrange things, not create anything of substance. It has no place on wiki articles. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 01:53, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::AI, like Daedra, cannot create, only imitate, so I vote "strictly no AI slop in wiki content namespaces". [[User:DaExile|DaExile]] ([[User talk:DaExile|talk]]) 02:02, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::: I think we need to follow Wikipedia's (draft) policy on [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AI-generated content|AI-generated content]]: "Because of the pervasive presence of [LLMs] in everyday tools it is not possible to ban it entirely", but "[p]ersistently introducing computer-generated content in violation of Wikipedia policies and guidelines will be considered disruptive editing and can lead to a block from further editing."

::: The problem is that we have no way to know if someone is using AI to generate content as opposed to format/reword/spellcheck their own work. If an editor is continuously adding slop or hallucinated info to articles, we can treat it like any other form of disruptive editing. It's just one more thing we need to be conscious of when checking new edits. Unfortunately, it's a tricky one to spot. One of the telltale signs (like on [[Lore:Altmer]]) is the addition of massive amounts of well-written prose, often containing misinformation or poor/inaccurate citation. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:13, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::: Fully on board to ban it. Even if it can be hard to tell sometimes, it should be fully purged when detected. And when we have proof of a user using it (such as admitting to it) action should be taken. Removal of the AI generated prose and the usual warning into action system the UESP admins take would sound fair to me. Furthermore though, whilst I know we currently know of at least one user using AI generation, retroactive action should not be taken against them. Only if it continues. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:29, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I disagree, not because I think AI usage is good, but I think we already have policies in place that police the bad behavior that AI causes. We have rules against blatantly false information in articles, like AI hallucinations. We have standards of grammar and spelling. We have standards that articles should be easily comprehensible. I just don't see how "AI is now banned" is really useful in any way, when all of the things that AI does poorly are already covered by existing policy. However, but banning it, we run into problems with assuming good faith, when one person claims another user is using AI and the other user claims they aren't. How do you PROVE they are using AI, or are just bad/inserting headcanon into articles (which is, again, already against our policies). This is a situation where it seems like a good policy, but then doesn't really have any impact at all. We shouldn't be adding policies just to make ourselves feel like we are doing something. There just isn't a real problem here. One user used AI but we've already been dealing with it under existing policies. If that user continues to use AI (or otherwise add in blatantly false information), there are ways to deal with that, up to and including blocking that user from the wiki for repeatedly adding false information to the wiki.

:::::I just don't see what the problem is that this policy is trying to solve. We just don't have a rash of AI edits that wouldn't otherwise be not okay under existing policies... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:50, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::A first step will be to officially declare our policy to be against it so no one unknowingly somehow thinks it's a good idea. Beyond that, we should indeed want to err on the side of inaction. We don't want to witch hunt AI text or erroneously accuse people of it just because they like em dashes or something. But yeah, if they admit it, if they have no defense for bad info, etc., I'm all for removing any such edits with a sledgehammer.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:04, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I'm more in line with the views of Jeancy and Legoless here. There is very little we can do to know that it is generated content and also remain true to assume good faith. I personally also think that soon this kind of generation will be indistinguishable from human writing and any policy will be impossible to police. I know it's not a very popular opinion but AI is here, it's not going away, and it's only going to get better faster than anyone is ready for. The only path forward from my point of view is a path that outlines the responsible integration of human assisted AI generated material and not outright bans. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 19:00, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I also think banning it outright is impractical since it's not really enforceable. While articles ideally shouldn't include AI generated content (not just lore articles, any articles), I think Wikipedia's (draft) policy is still enough, as it already covers the core issues - biased, not verifiable, poor quality, inaccurate - and we don't really need to say any more than that. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:32, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::I agree with Legoless that we should largely use Wikipedia's policy. Regardless of how enforceable the policy is, we definitely need a formal rule against AI writing so that we can ensure that it is not encouraged from here on out, and so that we can remove any writing confirmed to be AI-written instead of having to keep proofreading and editing it into something salvageable. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:37, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

== Verified Creation Psuedospace Consolidation and potential Namespace ==

As previously discussed [[Project:Community Portal/Archive 60#Change to Verified Creation Namespace Initials|here]], there had been talks to change up the naming system for Verified Creations. It looks like we previously settled on just doing three letter prefixes, as seen with Blood and Snow (ie. a file named [[:File:BaS-npc-Rakoslod.png|BaS-npc-Rakoslod]]). However, an issue with this is that there's now a lot more Verified Creations than there were before, so much so that they're getting pumped out at a faster rate than we can come up with Psuedospaces for them. Another issue is that its hard to find these images in one place, as they all start with different prefixes. Its dysfunctional for each mod to get its own prefix when the Skyrim DLCs don't even have that any more. I propose we add VC5 in front of each of these photos so that they can more easily be searched up. They can keep the psuedospace prefix as well if desired, such as the aforementioned file which would be renamed to <code>VC5-BaS-npc-Rakoslod</code>, but going forward we would no longer have to invent and decide on a psuedospace suffix for every new VC (ie. if there's a Verified Creation that's very small in content we could just name the file "VC5-npc-Gary" if we feel like that's all it requires and call it a day, instead of the ''need'' to invent a new prefix). We would only have to come up with new psuedospaces if we find that a VC is big enough to benefit from one.

The current tally of VCs per year (8 in 2023, 50 in 2024, and 100 in 2025 so far) comes out to roughly 158 VCs total since the program launched. Each VC has different content, but they are all tied together by being part of the Verified Creator Program. Do we also want to give Verified Creations their own namespace, similar to Better Cities and Tamriel Rebuilt? Or do we just want to keep them in Skyrim Modspace? [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 23:56, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

:I think a proper Skyrim Verified Creations space would be a good way to corral them all. One downside to using multiple prefixes that I would anticipate is that a lot of files are going to be incorrectly named. Having them in one place to verify will be helpful. Additionally, seeing as how there are 100+ this year alone, agreeing on psuedospace prefixes is going to become tedious at best or simply ignored without any consensus. I'm not saying I am opposed to pseudospace prefixes; they will be great to help identify what VC they belong to. I think we should get an official consensus here on how to name them going forward so that the process is avoided. Something like use the first 3 letters of each word in the name and if there are not 3 words then some alternative solution. The same goes for what happens if multiple would have the same prefix. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 01:21, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::Given the sheer volume we're dealing with, it will quickly become hard to find unique 3-letter prefixes that actually represent the creation in question (as opposed to simply assigning random codes). Best to reserve them for the larger ones.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Regarding pseudospaces in general, that was agreed during the creation of the Modspace Project to be all or nothing to ensure consistency; i.e. all mods get pseudospaces, or none do, otherwise we have double standards. (My preference would still be for none, but the consensus in the previous discussion was for all.) For as long as VC5 stays in SRMod, I think that consistency needs to remain, but if VC5 had its own namespace, then we could theoretically define a separate standard for that namespace.

:::On file prefixes specifically, which are related but separate to psuedospaces, I would suggest the same thing I suggested last time - VC5 and three additional characters. That removes any potential conflict with future releases and gives us over 17500 unique IDs. But that doesn't mean every pseudospace has to have a prefix anyway. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:12, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::On a somewhat related note, I think we're violating the spirit of modspace anyway by having so many red links and landing pages for all these VCs without actually documenting any of the content. We're a wiki, not a database - we don't need to be duplicating all the description pages that already exist on BethNet, we need to be detailing the content and gameplay, otherwise there's no point. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:22, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Being incomplete violates nothing. But yes, I think I get what you mean to say. We want more content like [[Skyrim Mod:Spelltome Craft|Spelltome Craft]] and less that is either absent or a stub that has no unique info of great merit. That said, the list itself is of great use to many since Bethesda's own ways to list the program's offerings are ... lacking.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:42, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{Edit Conflict}} I'm neutral on keeping psuedospaces, just as long VC5 is used to start all file names that would be the most important thing. The psuedospaces add a small benefit of making them easier to categorize so as long as we don't make them a requirement and more of an optional thing, they could work. As for the pages themselves, we shouldn't be duplicating descriptions and just leaving the pages like that, they definitely need editing and to have at bare minimum intros added to them. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 21:49, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::The [[UESPWiki:Mod|Modspace Guidelines]] literally say that we're supposed to document content, not delivery. If the above number is accurate, we have documented delivery of some 150 mods, while we only have details of content for about 20. Meanwhile, 92 are redlinks and don't even have their own pages. At what point would it be considered a violation of those guidelines? They certainly aren't "content-focused" at the moment if less than 15% of the documentation actually includes any content. Anything we're documenting should at least have a landing page like [[Skyrim Mod:SWIFT|SWIFT]], [[Skyrim Mod:The Forgotten City|The Forgotten City]], [[Skyrim Mod:ESO Imports|ESO Imports]] or [[Skyrim Mod:Wyrmstooth|Wyrmstooth]].

::::::Note that I'm only arguing for parity here - if we are now saying that it's acceptable for less than 15% of modspace to actually include documentation of mods' content and for more than 50% of mods listed to not even have their own articles, we'll rewrite the guidelines to that effect and continue creating a list of redlinks for free mods as well (which someone has already been doing), even if we never expect them to have any content documentation. Alternatively, if we follow the guidelines as intended, any redlinks on both lists should be deleted until such a time as someone actually starts documenting that mod. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 00:42, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Never. We have a drastically different interpretation of those guidelines. Nothing I see there even begins to suggest deleting redlinks to make site content even less complete. And again, even if much of the page is redlinks we merely hope will be fleshed out in time, that alone has frequently proven to be extremely useful and popular. Someone with access to view numbers can help provide data here if desired. Further, these redlinks have successfully proved to be helpful prompts for others to build the associated pages, especially since the list is semi protected. So perhaps those guidelines should be addended in such a way that reiterates our more clearly stated policy that perfection is not required and the fundamentally iterative nature of the site as a whole.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:56, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Agreed. Primarily it's the "Completing Articles" guideline that is the issue here, and I would be very happy to take that out and/or completely reword it to encourage iterative improvement over time, rather than suggesting that we ideally need to plan out a complete article from the start to avoid indefinite stubs. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:38, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

== Please undelete this page: Lore:Fascist ==

I'm [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides]]. I lost my password in a recent incident involving my password manager, leaving me logged out of my account. This is not the reason I am making this post. I noticed a mistaken deletion of a page, Lore:Fascist, within 18 hours of creation. This was not in line with the 7 days required under the [[UESPWiki:Deletion Policy]] for proposed deletion. This isn't just a deletion — this is an unexplained removal of information from UESP wiki. I hope we can fix this error by undeleting [[Lore:Fascist]] as soon as possible. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 11:07, 13 August 2025 (UTC)
:Administrators are allowed to delete pages before the typical 7 days if they feel the page is vandalism, nonsense, or similar, so I believe that's why it didn't stay up for the full 7 days that the Proposed Deletion tag normally requires. While the page is neither vandalism nor nonsense per se, it does feel like a forced attempt to introduce the concept of fascism where it's virtually non-existent in the game. Even when creating the page, you were only able to find a single in-universe instance of the word and one out-of-universe example. That's not really worth creating a Lore page for in my opinion.

:If you feel like you can flesh it out to the point where it might merit becoming a Lore page, I'm willing to restore it and move it to a subpage of your User page, but that's about as much as I'd be willing to do, personally. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

:: As I explained [[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu Karamanlides#Lore:Fascist|here]], the deleted article contained little of substance, and your previous account's edits seem more like an attempt to insert real-world political science into articles than a genuine effort to document fascism in TES lore. Another seven days would not have improved the case to retain such a page. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:45, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

::: RobinHood70, I appreciate your offer. While I revise the page — incorporating feedback to build consensus — I’d be glad for you to move and subpage Lore:Fascist as needed. Consensus matters to me, which is why I’m disappointed by the push to shut down discussion that could have occurred over those seven days. It’s odd — and counter to wiki principles — to assume no one might weigh in during that time. These discussions should have happened on [[Lore talk:Fascist]]. Nonetheless, I understand that editors feel that Lore:Fascist might have too little content. I hope to rework it into a larger, broader, subject page once it is restored and undeleted. Thank you. [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II]] ([[User talk:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II|talk]]) 07:05, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::My issue is that it would be hard to even turn into a large page without speculation or overly relying on real-world comparisons. I think the page could exist only if it was a tiny stub given its only mentioned once. And at most maybe applies to a group through dev comments. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 13:23, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Agreed. I don't know what the content of the page was, but I don't see how a lore page can be created based on a single throwaway line of dialogue from a single quest that you can only hear with a certain disposition value. The whole point of a lore page is to explain a concept, and there is nothing here to generate a concept which can then be explained. If the NPC had instead said ''"That welxist pig killed those people"'', would we create a Lore:Welxist page, despite knowing nothing of that concept beyond that single line? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:37, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Yeah I don't see much in the way of value being added by restoring this page. Keep it deleted. This is a real-world topic that can easily be justified as being a direct English translation for our sake as the player, rather than an actual term in-lore and in Tamrielic languages as a concept. Without any other content to cover, this page serves little purpose except to act as a potential lightning rod for controversy and edit wars. [[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 15:38, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I concur that the page should have been deleted. We could have started a talk page about it, but the discussion on it would likely go the same way this portal post is going right now. While I'm not inherently against the concept of a page about fascism, the fact that there's so little info on fascism (or political ideologies in general) within TES means that there's no way to write an actual article about it without massive amounts of speculation and connecting the dots with stuff that is subjectively fascist. Its like creating "Lore:Genetics" based on a few mentions of geneology; irl concepts like biology don't necessarily fit as a main backdrop in TES. If there was more info from the games on it, then I might have been on board, but since there isn't we don't really have any option but to have deleted that page. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:14, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} I also agree that it was right to delete the page, but in the interests of offering Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II a chance to prove it can be brought up to Lore page standards, I've restored it to [[User:Moon-Cardinal Richelieu II/Fascist|a sandbox]]. I'm using [[Lore:Sex]] as a guideline here. I was extremely sceptical of that page when it was first created, but it's become more than I ever would have imagined, so I think it's only fair to give the same breadth to this topic. That said, I urge any editors working on it to be very careful with what content they add to it. I can see the potential for the topic to go south very quickly, and if it does, I imagine it'll be summarily deleted again. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:58, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: This content has effectively been restored by placing it on [[Lore:Government]] and turning [[Lore:Fascist]] into a redirect. I have proposed the article for deletion as it doesn't address any of the concerns raised above and remains a speculative shoehorning. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

::I think a potential page on Government has some merit, but the section of fascism specifically doesn't, especially in its current form. There's nothing in TES suggesting that the one source was referring to a form of fascist government existing in the Empire, if you look at the real world definition of fascism it is a poor fit. But the word "fascist" has multiple definitions. As the edit in question can't escape, there isn't even an establishment of a relation to government without bringing in real world information, instead relying on the fact that the word was used as an insult once as the entire basis of its presence there. If you look at the [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism dictionary definition] "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control" makes a lot more sense in the context then the primary meaning "a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition".

::A fully developed page on Government in TES could possibly mention the single usage of the word fascist in a note section, but I think that's the extent of it that would be appropriate considering existing sources. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 11:39, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

== Mod Copyright Templates ==

While looking at some recent uploads I came to the thought that our current set of copyright templates don't seem to cover mods very well. It's very probable that a mod author doesn't want their creations just under creative commons, and mod elements also for the most part incorporate or are entirely based off of existing Elder scrolls content so it should most likely mention that it is still property of Bethesda. With that in mind we probably need licensing templates of some sort for mod projects. It'll allow us to fill in in case a mod author is declaring copyright on their mod.

One case that this would cover for example is the [[Beyond Skyrim:Concept Art|Beyond Skyrim concept arts]], which from what I can see are being uploaded under CC2.5 but are marked as being under [https://beyondskyrim.org/project/elsweyr copyright by Beyond Skyrim on their own website]. It'd be an improvement for us to say those images are copyright of Beyond Skyrim I believe, and I'm sure there are other examples like this on UESP.

Bringing this up here in case there are other gaps in the copyright templates that I haven't thought up that would deserve consideration. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 03:54, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

: Sometimes I'm asked by mod authors to upload images for Verified Creator Program releases before they're publicly published on Bethesda's site. So the license choice of it being an image from a Bethesda web site is not yet accurate and I just leave it blank because the option you just described is missing.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 04:05, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For Eve's specific example of being asked to upload images by the author, I think that's just {{tl|Usedwithpermission}}, or a variation of it. For other mod images, I think we may want to distinguish between in-game screenshots taken by UESP editors, and images created directly by the mod author, as we do everywhere else. For images created by the author, we probably want a Fair Use variant which says something like:
:: ''This image was taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod, the copyright of which is held by the mod author(s). The use of such images is believed to fall under the fair dealing clause of Canadian copyright law.''
:: For screenshots, we probably want something like:
:: ''This image was created for use on UESP using components taken from an ''Elder Scrolls'' mod. The copyright for the components is held by the mod author(s), while the copyright for this particular composition is held by UESP. It is available for use under the same Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License as our text content.''
:: We can add into that whatever extra info about Zenimax/Bethesda if necessary, but at the same time I don't want to conflate ownership, as Zeni/Beth only own the base game, not the unique composition created by the mod author. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:08, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

::: Thanks. I see that under the "Other" section and will use that in such cases going forward.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

== Grammar Concerns ==
I recently added an official mod summary to the [[Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]] page that had a grammar error. Immediately recognizing the error, I used the sic template to note that the text appeared as the author typed it and should not be corrected until and unless the official summary itself gets fixed. This was simple. This was routine. This was not expected to be controversial. However, another editor removed the template insisting that the incorrect grammar was actually correct. An edit war ensued where they misquoted grammar rules. It then went to the page's talk page where it got little attention. Then I gave up and left it without the template. Similar happened not long after, though, when I added needed images to [[SI:Grakendo Udico]]. This put the page on my watchlist, so I noticed when its correct grammar was changed to be incorrect. This started another edit war with the same user. Worse, an apparent intent to cascade the error everywhere was presented when [[SI:The Fringe]] (also on my watchlist from a previous edit) was also updated by the same user to make the same change from correct grammar to incorrect grammar. I then raised the issue on our Discord in hopes of additional voices of reason helping to correct the user's understanding of English grammar rules [[https://discord.com/channels/261544750044282883/261887896930353155/1407950822196903959]]. Unfortunately, the result was not only far from what I hoped it would be but instead prompted such grave concerns that this portal post is merited. We, of course, honor intentional style choices made in the official material. We also recognize errors where they exist. We should not insist that errors are official style choices, even if they are common or frequent. We should not presume intent. Given the lack of an official declaration that the grammar error is intentional, the basic rules of English grammar should apply. I also hoped this point would not be controversial. It was. The arguments (which I frankly find preposterous) were instead made that "English has no hard rules", that "Proper names include things like pubs or newspaper publications, not geographic regions like the Fringe", and that we should intentionally propagate some assumed concept of Bethesda grammar as if it were an intentional choice rather than an obvious error to anyone sufficiently familiar with English grammar rules or referencing any widely accepted English style guide. In conclusion, the specific examples (a comma between verbs of a compound predicate, capitalization of articles in proper place names) need as definitive an affirmation as we can reasonably get. I don't think our own style guides require any modification as the suggested corrections simply bring the language in line with accepted norms; I should hope people don't need to be told to use sense and recognize an error as an error rather than thinking that just because Bethesda made an error that we should then make that same error wherever possible. Whether anyone then chooses to hunt down similar examples throughout UESP for the sake of instant consistency is up to them. I merely seek to correct the cases in point to serve as precedent and hope that this will result in correct usage gradually being applied as relevant pages are edited anyway.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 08:26, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: A few points:

: 1. '''Incorrect grammar''': This has been discussed at length before, but capitalising the definite article is only required when it forms part of a proper title. So, The New York Times or the [[Oblivion:The Merchants Inn|The Merchants Inn]], but not the Fringe or the Reach. Compare [[wikipedia:The Pale|the Pale]] (or even [[wikipedia:The Bahamas|the Bahamas]], supposedly an exception). Regarding the sic template, as I have [[Skyrim_Mod_talk:Verified_Creator_Program#Sic_Misuse|repeatedly pointed out]], the comma usage here is a (poor) stylistic choice and not a grammar error.

: 2. '''Inconsistency with source material''': The in-game dialogue and journal entries on both [[SI:Grakendo Udico]] and [[SI:The Fringe]] disagree with you. Both refer to "the Fringe" in prose, and UESP's capitalisation is inconsistent with that. As a general guideline, our [[UESPWiki:Spelling|spelling and capitalisation guide]] tends to follow what is seen in-game. If it was treated as "The Fringe" in ''Oblivion'', maybe you would have a case to disregard normal grammar rules for geographic place names. Alas, this is not so.

: 3. '''Consensus''': The sic removal did not get "little attention", it received a comment from one additional user who opposed the overzealous use of a sic tag. From looking at the discussion on Discord regarding the Fringe capitalisation, three additional users attempted to correct you on current consensus and accepted grammar for this and similar cases. Yours is clearly the minority position here, i.e. to ignore precedent, in-game spelling, real world grammar rules, and site-wide consistency in the pursuit of carving out "The Fringe" as an exception to the rule.

: There is nothing wrong with [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Be bold|being bold]] and reverting what you perceive as a mistaken edit. However, these cases to me seem like an inability to accept correction. Having a 3-hour-long Discord discussion about it followed by a Community Portal post is unnecessarily disruptive to what should have been a minor grammar improvement. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:02, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::Ultimately this change will require us marking upwards of thousands of instances of things like "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", and so on as sics. This goes against UESP's existing style guide, in relation to the text on [[UESPWiki:Spelling]] in particular: ''"The Elder Scrolls games use many unique words and names. The spelling of all Elder Scrolls words should match the spelling used in the game, even if that differs from the common English spelling."''

::This would also fall astray from the Manual of Style of Wikipedia, with us commonly referencing Wikipedia in gaps in our own coverage as a possible source. In relation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Capitalization_of_The MOS: CAPS Capitalization of The], I reference: ''"Do not ordinarily capitalize the definite article after the first word of a sentence; however, some idiomatic expressions, including the titles of artistic and academic works, should be quoted exactly, according to common usage."''

::This, when applied to our current practice, has us doing it correctly by following common usage.

::With both UESP's own style guide supporting our current position, and the Wikipedia MOS supporting it as well I would move onto one final point for why we shouldn't. This would cause extreme confusion among our readers seeing the extra thousand plus sics this would create, and would cause more fighting over sics then exists currently. It would both require a considerable amount of editor effort to make things consistent to this new standard, while only causing what I would perceive as a degradation of the quality of our content to the average user due to the increased confusion this would cause. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 09:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::: No one is saying "the" should always be capitalized. The rule is that it is capitalized when it is part of the name itself. The advocated behavior here is to adhere to the rule, which itself applies to exceptional names that include the article as part of the name, NOT to do something that is itself an exception to the rules in general. This "inability to accept correction" accusation works both ways. You may wish to avoid additional personal attacks and threats and try to address the actual issue at hand. And no one is questioning spelling. I don't know why spelling keeps being brought up. The cases in point are a comma and a capital T, not spelling. This is not a matter of opinion. People yelling loudly, repeatedly, and even vulgarly that their way is the right way without any relevant or credible citation is an abusive attempt at bullying, not a valid counter to the credible sources provided via Discord ([[https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/punctuation/commas/extended_rules_for_commas.html]] [[https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html]]). The argument that being correct is too hard is also absurd. Firstly, what's right is what matters—and what's right is often not what's easy. Secondly, to repeat, this does not need to be effected immediately sitewide; we simply need to set the record straight on what's right and what's wrong here to prevent the people that do make the edits—when and if they choose to do so—from undoing each other's work. The UESP style guide says nothing about the specific issues, leaving any reasonable person to understand that normal and basic grammar rules prevail. Wikipedia's current cited example of "the Bahamas" is an error. It's easy to find errors like this. That still does not make them right. Find credible and accepted direction that contradicts the credible and accepted direction already linked above, if you can, not additional examples of common error.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 10:05, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::: Eve, at this point the only person insisting their way is the sole correct one—against all style guides, in-game usage, and community consensus—is you. The Fringe is not the name of a country. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:54, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Quick summary for the rest of the community, because for a section titled "Grammar concerns", OP's content focused on how the alleged errors have been mis/handled without specifying the actual errors themselves; also, for everyone who can't be bothered to look up diffs and/or people like me who are not on Discord.

{|class="wikitable"
!Page and revision!!Text!!OP's edits
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3402135|Skyrim Mod:Verified Creator Program]]
|Will you save her from the Forsworn, and help her write your epic?
|Will you save her from the {{sic|Forsworn,|Forsworn}} and help her write your epic?
|-
|[[Special:Diff/3405307|Shivering:Grakendo Udico]]
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|the Fringe]], she will be...
|When you arrive at [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]], she will be...
|-
|[[Shivering:The Fringe]]
|colspan=2|(What was the update "by the same user ... to incorrect grammar"?)
|}
And now that everybody else is on the same page about "a comma and a capital T", here's my two cents.

The first one seems to be just an Oxford comma on verb phrases. A stylistic choice perhaps, but not necessarily a grammatical error, let alone one that warrants a {{tl|Sic}}.

For the second one, I agree that the excerpt quoted by AKB above from [[UESPWiki:Spelling#General]] actually does apply to spelling, not capitalization. The relevant part is further down in [[UESPWiki:Spelling#Proper Names]]: ''"...cases where proper names begin with a definite (e.g. the) or indefinite (e.g. a, an) article. The article should be preserved if the proper name is used as a standalone noun and omitted if used as a modifier for some other noun..."''.

Thus, I don't see any problem with "When you arrive at The Fringe". As a matter of fact, in the page for [[Shivering:The Fringe|The Fringe]] itself, the description for many [[Shivering:The Fringe#Places within The Fringe|related places]] refer to it as "The Fringe". The intro blurb also mentions "The Shivering Isles" and "The Gatekeeper". So... I'm not sure I understand correctly what AKB refers to as "common usage" above (not throwing shade, I legit don't because I don't edit in the [[OB:Oblivion|OB]] and [[SI:Shivering Isles|SI]] namespaces much).

However, it is very important to note that in-game mentions of "the Fringe" do not constitute a grammatical error either. There isn't, and there shouldn't be, any call to add sitewide sics to "the Rift", "the Reach", "the Fringe", etc. especially when they're quoted from in-game dialogue or journal entries. I think we can recognize it's a slippery slope fallacy and that it should not be taken as support or opposition to either approach.

Lastly, from [[UESPWiki:Style Guide#Language]], ''"...capitalization follows standard English rules, {{Hover|emphasis mine|'''except'''}} in cases where a proper name or title comes from an Elder Scrolls game, in which case the game capitalization is kept. More specifics on spelling and capitalization, and clarification on in-game spelling variations, are provided at [[UESPWiki:Spelling|Spelling]]''. So... please understand why "spelling keeps being brought up".

TLDR: I believe (1) Oxford comma okay, no sic; and (2) "The Fringe" okay but "the Fringe" also okay if quoting in-game content. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 11:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

: To me, the examples on [[Shivering:The Fringe]] speak to the lower quality of those older SI pages compared to the rest of the site. It is most definitely "[[Shivering:Haskill#Quest-Related_Events|the Gatekeeper]]" in all contexts. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 11:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Thank you, Salamangkero. The quoted examples, citation of our own policy confirming that the "definite ... article should be preserved", and citation of our policy confirming that our text "follows standard English rules" are all very helpful. Regarding the third example, I see now I have an error in my original post. It was actually the page "Retaking The Fringe", not just "The Fringe". It was effectively the same as the second edit, though. Beyond that, as per the rule cited by the same user themselves ([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma]]), the comma does not fit the definition as the definition requires the list to consist of at least THREE terms—not two. I also concur that citing examples of it being done the way one person considers right or wrong or vice versa is not particularly helpful—hence encouraging us to look at style guides that actually intend to prescribe correct usage. Also, regarding sic usage in general, it's my understanding that this applies ONLY when we're quoting anyway. Otherwise, the error should simply be corrected, not preserved (with or without annotation). As for our Gatekeeper friend, I don't know for certain if "The" is part of his name or not off the top of my head. I suspect it's not, so a lowercase "the" would be good here. The list of exceptions that actually include the article as part of the proper name is likely a very short list, all of which have probably already been mentioned just now in this section.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:36, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
:: And while I question if it's better to ignore such a crude comment, I'll respond for the record. "against all style guides": No, I'm advocating what every single style guide cited says to do; you're the one that keeps insisting otherwise with zero style guides backing up the approach. "against ... in-game usage": Some of it. It's inconsistent. And being in the game doesn't make it right. Hence the existence of the sic template in the first place. "against ... community consensus": I posted this hours ago, and we most definitely have not reached a consensus. "The Fringe is not the name of a country.": I agree. Also, no one said it was. Nor does it need to be. Any type of proper name that starts with an article counts.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 11:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I was not aware the Oxford comma had a 3-terms-and-above restriction. I learned something new today; thank you for that. I also offer an alternative: instead of a list of verb phrases like I initially claimed, consider it instead as [https://www.grammarly.com/blog/punctuation-capitalization/comma-before-and/#1 two independent clauses].

:::Point taken re: the examples being of lower quality / older. So I did a quick scan of [[UESPWiki:Featured_Articles/Old_FAs|Featured Articles]]:
:::*[[ON:Molag Bal]] mentions ''"...during [[ON:The Watcher in the Walls|The Watcher in the Walls]], [[ON:The Rat|The Rat]] informs you that..."'' and ''"...you are transported to [[ON:The Colored Rooms|The Colored Rooms]]."''
:::*[[SR:Serana]] has dialogue ''"When in The Reach"'' and ''"When in The Rift"''
:::*[[Lore:War of Betony]] mentions ''"...from Camaron's chief advisor [[Lore:The Oracle|The Oracle]], who reportedly..."''
:::*[[SR:Fishing_(activity)]] lists places ''"...east of the passage from [[SR:The Rift|The Rift]]."'', ''"...in front of [[SR:The Mortar and Pestle|The Mortar and Pestle]] and...'', ''"...next to the entrance to [[SR:The Warrens|The Warrens]]."'' and ''"Travel to [[SR:The Guardian Stones|The Guardian Stones]]..."''

:::The argument could be made that these are isolated errors; maybe, maybe not. However, I do think the current wording of the wiki's style guide leans towards preserving the capital "T" for in-game content that actually have "The" in their names. I believe, in the past, contributors have encountered dialogue / journal entries where a lowercase "t" was used to refer to "the Thing" and taken that as the norm. I think, over time, other contributors also followed suit until it became a de facto style, which is why arguments that appeal to "precedent" and "site-wide consistency" are brought up. However, [[UESPWiki:Consensus#When Consensus is Needed|Consensus]] guidelines specifically warns against ''fait accompli'' and I feel that using "community consensus" to shoot down attempts to clarify consensus is a bit underhanded.

:::However, the same [[UESPWiki:Consensus#Reaching Consensus|Consensus]] guidelines also recommends we ''"respect the wiki guidelines about civility"'' and ''"focus on the issue being discussed"''. I think it's obvious everyone views the comma and/or the capital T as completely trivial issues. Given that, everyone also expects a quick resolution then feels understandably frustrated when the discussion gets "unnecessarily" prolonged. People begin feeling aggravated, misunderstood or unheard; they may lash out, insinuating a misunderstanding of guidelines, an inability to accept feedback or just plain stubbornness. People become defensive, take things personally, create strawman arguments and respond to quotes taken out of context.

:::Might I suggest taking a breather and letting go of the need to reach (or enforce) a consensus "right here, right now"? Maybe 24 hours or even a couple of days? There might be some benefit if other contributors, who might be less emotionally-invested, could be given time to bring something new to the table. Perhaps the other participants in said Discord might also share their reasoning here?

:::I, too, would love for this to be uncontroversial but that boat has already sailed. For a supposedly trivial concern, the stakeholders have pretty strong feelings on what is right or wrong. We're here now; might as well use this space to have a civil discussion with the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 13:55, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you again. Well said. Treating it as two independent clauses doesn't work, though, since the second clause relies on the "Will you" at the beginning (and is thus dependent). Otherwise, the meaning would get changed into asking a question and then issuing a command which seems very unlikely to be the author's intent.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 14:38, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Our primary motivating factor is what the games do. By and large, such instances in the games has a lower case letter for the definite article when used in the middle of the sentence. In similar cases on wikipedia, they have also settled on the lowercase t for such instances, see for example [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters/Archive_34#Capitalization_of_The|this discussion on the Bahamas]]. English has no hard and fast rule on this, and many if not most American English speakers learned growing up to NOT capitalize the t in a definite article in the middle of a sentence except in very specific circumstances, and place names are not one of those circumstances. It doesn't really matter what the various manuals of style say to do, because we do not follow any specific manual of styles, we just copy what the game devs have decided to do, and the vast majority of time, they do not capitalize the t. This holds true in games from Morrowind all through to ESO (I don't have access to the text files for games before that).

To quote one of the commenters from that Wikipedia discussion:

''"And we've had this debate many times before about many things, such as various company names, a lot of universities, etc., and the end result is always the same: WP uses "the" because most sources do. See also MOS:TM and WP:OFFICIALNAME; WP really doesn't care about the preferences of particular publishers or other entities, nor for "officialness" of some particular style choice. WP is not written in officialese."''

In this case, "most sources" for us are the games. And saying that the thousands of times they have made this choice in games across multiple decades is somehow a "common error" vastly misstates the sheer number of instances. In ESO alone there are over 1400 instances of "the Reach" with that capitalization. Sicing all of them is is both unnecessary and incorrect, because the game devs have settled on a style to use, and we should follow it. Again, given the number of times that this exact sort of capitalization has come up on Wikipedia, and every single time consensus has been that common usage does NOT capitalize the t, most readers are likely to assume a capitalized t is incorrect.

TLDR: We follow the style used by the games, and the games overwhelmingly use a lowercase t in such instances. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:30, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
: I would also point out that even if we WERE using a manual of style rules, Chicago's FAQ regarding this situation effectively says lowercase t is okay if that's what the source is using:

:''"Meanwhile, the entries in Merriam-Webster list “Gambia or the Gambia” and “Bahamas or the Bahamas or The Bahamas”—suggesting not only that usage varies but that a lowercase t may be more common when the article is used with either name. And though an editor applying Chicago style would ordinarily defer to Merriam-Webster (and choose lowercase), you can cite Britannica if your preference is for The Gambia. Just be sure to switch to lowercase when the article belongs to the surrounding text, as in “the Gambia River” or “the Gambian coast.”''
:(from [https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Capitalization/faq0107.html here])

:Standard English grammar does not capitalize these situations generally and it would be wrong to mark them as sic for making a choice to not capitalize them. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:43, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:: Dictionaries are inherently NOT prescriptive or instructive. They document how people use language, not how it should be used. So of course they are going to note that it appears with and without a capital. They are frequently asked what the "right" way of writing something is and invariably respond that they only keep track of what people do, never judging what is best but merely helping people understand what others mean.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I would just suggest that both be acceptable, and therefore neither should be changed. Stats for ESO are already mentioned; in Skyrim, there are 52 instances of the Pale and the Rift being mentioned mid-sentence, and only 12 of The Pale and The Rift. This shows that 20% of the time, someone made a concerted effort to actively capitalise it, but by the same token, 80% of the time they didn't bother. As for the Reach, that appears over 100 times, while The Reach is only capitalised 3 times. CSList for Oblivion isn't working so I can't check the Fringe.
:::When it comes to sic and commas, I don't really think it's worth sic'ing punctuation at all, apart from apostrophes. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:27, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't see why a sic wouldn't be appropriate in the case punctuation is unambiguously wrong, such as a question ending in a period rather than a question mark. In the particular case of the Verified Creator Program, I do think Eve's edit is correct, but I do not know for sure that the original is unambiguously incorrect, so I shall remain neutral on that. But in general, I would support sic tags being used on any punctuation *errors*. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 21:25, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Correct placement of commas is subject to more 'grey areas' than just about any other aspect of punctuation. Deciding what is 'correct' (as opposed to purely stylistic choice) in many instances comes down to subtle distinctions of emphasis and intent. In the example under discussion, I would argue it depends on whether you consider "save her from the Forsworn" and "help her write your epic" as two distinct actions (ie "Will you save her from the Forsworn, ''and will you'' help her write your epic?") or just one ("Will you save her from the Forsworn ''while simultaneously'' helping her write your epic?"). Not having played the Creation in question, I would suggest the former is more likely, but neither are technically incorrect.--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:35, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::: The case in point for "The Fringe" is prose written by UESP users. There's nothing to sic. It's just a matter of being consistent in the text we do fully control. As for whether it's "worth" marking official text as erroneous on account of this, no one is demanding every such instance be immediately marked as such. I just want users to be able to acknowledge that it's not called Fringe. It's called The Fringe. And when users indicate this with a capital T, I don't want them to be fought on it. And I certainly don't want correct instances of a capital T changed to incorrect instances of a lowercase T as was the case here. Even if either were perfectly fine, then that change is unjustified anyway. The point is also well made that some number of people at Bethesda very clearly made an active effort to properly capitalize it. I'd say the more obvious distinction is that we have zero examples of it being referred to as simply "Fringe." It's always THE Fringe (except one "My Fringe" from Sheogorath being goofy and alluding to himself effectively being the realm itself that no one actually asserts should be an example of anything—but which nevertheless capitalizes "My," albeit possibly for a different reason anyway). And even if we were to mistake reference materials that merely chronicle usage both capitalizing the article and not as endorsement of both being proper, the one with the capitalization presents greater clarity of the actual place name whereas the other approach seeks to intentionally maintain unnecessary vagueness. As for the comma, the fact that the attempt to justify multiple intended meanings requires actually changing the phrasing to make it sound normal says a lot. If the words "will you" were repeated, then the comma would indeed be just fine. But they're not. And that's why it's an issue. There are no interpretations of the meaning that make the current comma and words valid. I feel much of the commentary stems from fear of needing to do a lot more work or fear of one's existing work looking lesser in some way. That's not how this works. Once we acknowledge what is ideal, no one is required to hunt down every instance of anything that falls short. Anything containing such an instance is not rendered any more incomplete than anything else on the wiki. The entire site is an eternal work in progress. Just don't change the right way to the wrong way when and where someone actually does care enough to get it right.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 06:44, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::No-one is suggesting that the location is called "Fringe". What they are arguing is that "the Fringe" and "The Fringe" are both equally correct. As for the comma, I was not "changing the phrase to make it sound normal", I was merely illustrating that there are different ways of interpreting the meaning, which affect whether the comma is appropriate. Or are you suggesting that the second interpretation is the only possible one? You seem to regard neither style guides nor dictionaries nor common usage as valid counter-evidence to the position you regard as 'objectively' correct, but I'm unclear how you arrived at this position. In any case, when it comes to proper nouns, the position of the 'owner' of the noun (in this case the devs) takes precedence. That's why there's a movie called ''Inglourious Basterds'', not ''Inglorious Bastards''. Now can we move on from a topic that really should not have provoked this much controversy?--[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 11:07, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I'm stating that no matter how the sentence is interpreted, the comma is an error. You are correct that dictionaries are not regarded as evidence of how things SHOULD be—only of how they are used, whether desirable or not. As for style guides on the comma, I linked a Purdue reference affirming the comma's incorrectness. No one has linked any contrary guide. As for style guides on capitalizing The Fringe, the Chicago Manual of Style reference I linked also affirms that it "generally remains capitalized" and further attests Brittanica corroborates. I admit the last paragraph of that source is slightly confusing; however, read in full context, it refers precisely to The Gambia and The Bahamas as tolerating a lowercase "the." It explicitly states that any other region whose name starts with a definite article (such as "The") should have it capitalized, citing examples of El Salvador, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and The Hague. As for Bethesda's stance, if you can find a comment of them explicitly stating that it should be one way or the other, that would be awesome. Otherwise, again, just trying to deduce their position based on inconsistent examples is either inconclusive or outright supports capitalizing the article. And once again, absolutely no one has argued against honoring intentional spellings, which remain completely irrelevant to the cases in point.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
:::::::: As an extra point of clarification, even the dictionaries agree anyway. "The Hague," for example is only listed with a capital The. It's simply that The Gambia and The Bahamas are extra exceptional in that they alone have a modicum of tolerance for a lowercase "the."[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 17:15, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: If tolerance is a valid consideration, Bethesda's tolerance of over 80% lower case is highly significant. As I said above, I would just suggest that both options be acceptable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 17:39, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::: How would that even work? First person to add the text gets to pick? People can endlessly change it back and forth?[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 18:13, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} Yep, first person decides. For every alt spelling or grammar rule that UESP has no preference toward, consistency within the page is what matters, so whatever is on there first takes priority. Edits that change it back and forth aren't really allowed because edits are meant to be useful and changing it back and forth when the original already established something wouldn't be of substance. I think "dialogue" vs "dialog" is one of these things, where you can use either as long as the page is consitent within itself. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 18:24, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

: For whatever reason, the Spelling page actually dictates "Use 'dialog' to refer to interface elements ('dialog box', 'dismiss the inventory dialog') and 'dialogue' for character content ('the NPC's dialogue varies by player character race')." I get the idea, though. For the cases in point, I'd say they fall under the UESP "preference" to use correct grammar.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 21:47, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:: For the sake of completeness on the stats, I managed to get the Oblivion dialogue on the Fringe now that CSList is partially working again. Of 40 mid-sentence references to the Fringe, only 3 are capitalised. That's over 90% which aren't. And yes, as above; in other instances where there are two equally-acceptable styles, whichever is on the page first usually takes priority. Although I know sometimes when a lot of info is added to a page, editors may sometimes switch what's already there if that is then in the minority compared to their additions; I think that happens particularly if they've been typing out their edit elsewhere, and editing their additions would take longer than changing what's already there. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 22:17, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Dialog vs Dialogue isn't just a choice of the editor. Dialogue is specific to people speaking, dialog is to interface elements. This is specific to American English, where dialog is computer related. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:49, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Yep, after looking into it, this was [https://content1.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Spelling&diff=3116711&oldid=3047631 changed] a year ago and I last reviewed the guide before it was reduxed. A current example is Dwemer vs. Dwarven as an adjective of origin, of which either is acceptable. Thanks for the corrections on this point. Eve is correct that their Purdue reference has gone unchallenged and pending any provided counter-source, I must side with them on this and say the sic is valid. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 17:24, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

== Headers on Style Pages ==
Following from a discussion about headers on Crafting Motif Style pages in the Discord.

So, some Crafting Motif Style pages have a level 4 header on their pages under the intro paragraph where it says what weapon/armor is involved. An example of this is [[ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords|ON:Crafting Motif 136: Voskrona Guardian Swords]]. Some, primarily older ones, do not have that. They look like this [[ON:Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes|Crafting Motif 32: Abah's Watch Axes]]. The Abah's Watch Axes example does appear to be styled more like how the in-game books look. I started doing the level 4 heads like on Voskrona Guardian Swords because I saw it on a Lore page before ([[Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style|Lore:Crafting Motif 33: Thieves Guild Style]]) as an example, though I think most, if not all, Lore Style pages have this.

So the question I have: Going forward, what should we do to fix the discrepancy?

1. Remove all the headers.

2. Keep the headers on Lore pages, but not on the Online namespace pages.

3. Keep all headers on both.

Thank you.

[[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 05:17, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:I support Option 1. The game itself doesn't have headers or bolding or anything different (other than the text being in caps) and we shouldn't be adding formatting that isn't part of the games to these pages. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:47, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::I support Option 1. Yeah, we should make it so it looks like in-game. --[[User:BixenteN7Akantor|BixenteN7Akantor]] ([[User talk:BixenteN7Akantor|talk]]) 18:41, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Option 1, although I think the bolded headings look better, we should prioritize accuracy. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 20:09, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Just adding to this, I'm noticing that some of the books (like Crafting Motif 33, above) indent the text under the headers where others don't. Unless there's any objection, I'll outdent those in addition to removing the headers whenever I run the bot job. That'll bring them into line with how they appear in game. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:02, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Option 1 makes sense. We should still keep some form of bolding to maintain readability (putting <code>;</code> in front of the chapters would easily do the job), we've never focused on perfectly replicating the books exactly how they are in-game so I don't see why we would start doing that now (see: authorship and intro notes in-game getting moved into the template on-wiki). —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 08:43, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::: Well, for me, it's a matter of consistency between the pages as opposed to perfectly replicating them as they are in-game. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 17:06, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Been a while. I say we pull the trigger on this for Option 1. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 23:47, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
{{od}} Sorry, I completely forgot about this. The job's actually been ready to go since we first talked about it. I'm just running it now and it'll probably be done by the time I post this. Let me know if there are any issues. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:23, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
: It missed two but otherwise, everything looks good. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:05, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
::The two that it missed both had level 3 headers, which I hadn't realized were a thing, so I was only checking for level 4 headers. I should've checked the spacing after the title, though. I'm not sure how I missed that. Thanks for fixing the ones where that was an issue. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:59, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

==Class skill line pages not reflecting subclassing==
While I was adding achievement sections to the class skill line pages, I noticed that they all still say "(class skill line name) is one of three class skill lines available to (class)." Obviously, with subclassing now, these skill lines are available to everyone, and that statement kind of implies they're exclusive to that class. I've left them as is, as I didn't really know how to approach this. Any ideas are welcome, or if anyone wants to tackle this themselves, go ahead :) [[User:Sogekihei|Sogekihei]] ([[User talk:Sogekihei|talk]]) 02:00, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

: What about [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Online%3ABone_Tyrant&type=revision&diff=3450557&oldid=3449649 this]? —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:11, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:: Since I didn't receive any feedback on this change, I've gone ahead and added this standard wording for each class skill line. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:11, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

== Incomplete / Unavailable mods in modspace? ==

I've stumbled upon a [[Morrowind Mod:Sixth House Reloaded|''Morrowind'' mod]] that has a decent amount of content on a decent amount of pages, which would have been hardly notable except for the fact that it is not available. Characterized as an "upcoming overhaul mod", work on the pages started on September of this year (and stalled one month after). I feel like this is problematic for the following reasons:
* Unlike mods that actually exist, there is no meaningful way for wiki contributors to create, edit or fact-check any content.
** Instead of articles vetted and improved by the community, we have one contributor's personal sandbox outside Userspace.
** Indeed, the few changes done by other editors worked on minor housekeeping as opposed to actual content.
* I don't think UESP is the appropriate venue to host a mod's full changelog or documentation.
** Nexus Mods, for example, would be a much more suitable platform for that kind of content.
* As this specific mod is still a work in progress, its pages feel more like hype or press releases rather than useful (or even usable) reference material.
** UESP is not the place for that either.

I would like to propose the deletion of the mod's pages. As an alternative, though, the pages could be moved from Modspace to Userspace. Indeed, [[Special:DoubleRedirects|a trail of redirects]] indicate that at least [[Morrowind_Mod:6HR:Creatures|one article]] might have started as a [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sandbox|sandbox page]].

However, I'm not sure if similar practices might also apply (or even be the norm) in other namespaces. Perhaps my proposals might be unfair, if there's some mitigating context I'm unaware of. Thus, I am asking for feedback from the rest of the community. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 19:18, 15 December 2025 (UTC)
: I agree with what you're saying. The fact that it's not available is the key thing on this one as opposed to other incomplete mods that are partially available, such as Tamriel Rebuilt. [[User:Oath2order|Oath2order]] ([[User talk:Oath2order|talk]]) 19:27, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

::Yeah I think at the time we assumed it would be out imminently. I have no problems with moving it back to Userspace until it releases. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:43, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

:::Done. Moved pages to subpages in [[User:ImmortalCorvus/Sixth House Reloaded]]. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 23:23, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

==New Reference Tier Classification Specifically for the Julian LeFay Notes (Proposal)==
Hi! I wanted to suggest the creation of a new reference tier (as we have for official vs UOL) for the recently recovered TTRPG campaign notes of Julian LeFay—which were used for the creation of lore background for ''The Elder Scrolls II: Dagerfall''—and have all been published on [https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefays-dd-notes The Imperial Library]. This release is the biggest batch we've ever received as a community of developer design documents, so I'm thinking we ought to treat them differently than regular UOL—especially since a great deal of the background lore in ''Dagerfall'' references the events that took place during this campaign (for example: background of Vanus Galerion, invention of Artaeum, events around Dwynnen, Baron Othrok, and the Camoran Usurper) and many blanks within that area of lore can be filled in with the contents of these notes nearly seamlessly (official canon would take presedence where it does not of course). My suggestion is that that a JLC (Julian LeFay Campaigns) tier be slotted between official and UOL in the 'reference' section of our pages.

In my mind, we would treat the contents of Julian's notes like how Nukepedia treats the Fallout Bible (which was a big document written by an official developer, and contained a plethora of developer commentary as well as design document content) -- more seriously than a UOL source but ultimately less seriously than any canon source. This would mean lorespace pages could be created about their contents (unlike strictly UOL pages), only with a header notice ([https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Asp_Faust as seen here for example]) stating extra clearly that these lorespace pages are based on a secondary source. This method would also subscribe to Todd Howard's statement on truthfulness when it comes to overall fiction of ''The Elder Scrolls'', as stated [[General:Todd Howard PAX East 2019 Interview#Game Development, Canon, and Fan Theories|here]]. However, this would and should extend only to the contents of these notes alone -- all other UOL sources would and should remain UOL.

These notes are some of Julian LeFay's only known direct designs and writings, and I think this would be a really nice way to honor his legacy as well as his contributions to the series while also not overstating their officiality. Looking forward to hearing any thoughts, questions, and suggestions in response to this proposal! Best, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 23:55, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

: To me, this is the same as any other conceptual source covered by the catch-all UOL tag. I agree it's noteworthy developer commentary, but we don't need to categorise unofficial sources into tier lists. I don't see how it's any more "canon" than other dev texts or cutting room floor design docs—foundational, yes, but the same citation rules apply. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:: I have to agree I don't agree with distinguishing UOL tiers on this way. It feels like giving preferential treatment and I feel like that's a slippery slope. Julian's works are invaluable that much is certain, but I'd feel weird with having UESP essentially say "this Dev's contributions matter more than this other Dev's" regardless of personal opinion on such. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 00:27, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: With all respect to Julian I don't know if he would have even himself considered this the same or equivalent to the finished project? Ultimately it was only released on the event of his tragic death as a nice treat for his fans. What would be the cutoff for what's DnD and whats TES? With all the DnD monsters and giants included in it seems like a line would have to be drawn somewhere if it was considered near equivalent to official lore. Absolutely I would like to see material from it cited as well tolerated UOL with regards to the gaps it fills in Daggerfall lore. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:31, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::: Well the reason I think there ''is'' a need is in this case is because I think it would be appropriate to make lorespace pages about the material, which is not standard for our UOL policy; I'm not just suggesting to add another tier to add another tier. This is also why we would put a notice alike the Fallout Bible header on such pages, because it is a secondary source. I'm not saying it should be treated as official. I wouldn't say these are "cutting room floor" in any fashion, it's far more like the extra source material from the bottom of [[Wikipedia:Iceberg theory|Hemingway's Iceberg]]—in the sense that this was the source material ''directly'' that was used to formulate the lore of ''Daggerfall''. I honestly can't think of another case where we have ever had direct access to documents of this style before, ever. So to me it feels like something at least worth having a discussion about here.

:::: I'd also note that Julian was the original series director for TES in the 1990s, he wasn't just any miscellaneous developer who ran a tabletop game in his off hours—I'd honestly relate it to an author like Tolkien authoring his many notes for the Silmarillion that weren't published until long after he had written them. Additionally I'd note that this is entirely a one-case scenario suggestion, as I said all other UOL should and would remain UOL. And again while we might not measure extratextual sources by tiers, we know Bethesda officially does. As you can read in Todd's statement on truth above, I think it would be more than fair to say the original notes used for fleshing out ''The Elder Scrolls'' after ''Arena'' ought to rate higher than a developer's forum text or post, which the UOL category is normally reserved for. Looking forward to further discussion on this! Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 00:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: Actually, I'll place a counter proposal here. If we were to keep the reference tier as UOL (which is what most seem to have a problem with above) but allow contents from the notes to be covered on individual pages in lorespace per the Fallout Bible extratextual page header style suggested above, I would be comfortable with the UOL designation. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:06, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::: What are examples of the material you think warrants the caveat? -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:08, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::: Sure. Firstly, I'd say "Caramon Drake", the lich of Castle Wightmoor that Baron Othrok faces against who is mentioned in the book ''[[Lore:The Fall of the Usurper|The Fall of the Usurper]]'' but is not named directly. Castle Wightmoor itself, which we possess a concept map of and details about, also mentioned in the book. Additionally there's the families of the Iliac Bay mentioned in the same book, but unnamed, would also be appropriate candidates. I could go on, but that gives a decent idea of what I have in mind in regards to lorespace additions. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:13, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::: Well that makes things kind of different as we actually have already made caveats like that in the past. That case by case we could name entries or articles after things that exist in canon but are only named in UOL, IE Parrapton, N'chorbal, and some rivers in ESO I believe. I don't think there needs to be some special category for this if enough people agree on the specific examples warranting it. As long as we aren't suggesting making things like pages for stuff with no basis like the character that is a DnD Firebolg.- [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:18, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::::: While those examples above are referenced in the official lore, there are others that are entirely extratextual -- the point of my suggesting the caveat header is so we can expand our coverage to these extratextual subjects. The Fallout wiki has been doing this for a very long time with specific documents of this sort, and their coverage of materials is better than ours for it.

::::::::: I agree than any materials referenced entirely not of The Elder Scrolls—like the Firebolg—should not feature anywhere outside of notes. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:26, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::::: What is something that is entirely extratextual that would warrant an article wherein all the context about them was not already in the transcript? - [[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 01:32, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Sorry I'm not picking up your question exactly? Everything I'm referring to is contained in the released transcripts for the campaigns, if that answers that? I meant "extratextual" as in not currently hinted at in the official canon, so the opposite of a Caramon Drake or Castle Wightmoor (which are hinted at/referenced).

As far as extratextual items worth documenting, I would say the various lords of Summerset listed in the notes. Each of which have paragraph-sized biographies going over who they are any what their deal is. The map also tells us where they rule. I would also say a group like the Krysard would be deserving of a page. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 01:41, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

: Counter-counter proposal, how would folks feel about placing it in his own space instead of just in generalspace? Like how we have mods with their own special spaces (like say "Daggerfall Mod:" or "Tamriel Rebuilt:")—if fan mods deserves entirely special spaces like these, I think there's a decent argument to be made that the developer D&D game materials ought to have their own unique space as well. This keeps it out of official lorespace and also out of overcluttering generalspace—where we can both document and make lorespace-style pages for the contents. We can hyperlink relevant stuff to and from lorespace as necessary as UOL, nothing lost. Thoughts? Cheers, —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 06:07, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::That seems like a good suggestion. I would be reluctant to create a new reference tier in case it gives the impression that all other UOL is given equal weight, which it isn't.-[[User:Draugluin|Draugluin]] ([[User talk:Draugluin|talk]]) 10:58, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::: I agree this seems perfectly fine. If modpages can have spaces then I see no reason why a developer's "lore bible" can't either. So for that specific proposal of a Julianspace I'm all for [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 11:46, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::Oh yeah we can probably give it a space in a similar manner to the books! Those have character bio pages and lists and such. Would make sense to treat it kinda like that. That way we could also just list all the characters and their bios. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 16:23, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::: I think the suggestion to create a "Julianspace" to document the campaign fully is an interesting proposal. I also wouldn't be against lore page creation on the basis of this source either. Although usually disallowed for UOL-only concepts, I think an ad-hoc approach is appropriate if a case can be made for individual articles. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:29, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::In terms of naming lore articles, the Stargate Omnipedia uses an interesting method, since so many of the planets are unnamed in the show, but might get names in dev commentary or other non-canon sources. They name the article as the generic name (in this case, something like "Lich of Castle Wightmoor") and then have a redirect from the UOL name, with the first sentence listing the name as well as a note as why it isn't the article name. This would get around the issues involving using UOL names for the article title and still provide the information to the reader in the first sentence. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:35, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I would much rather we treat all UOL the same regardless of the source. That applies to how we reference it ''and'' how we document it, and in either case, there should be no tiering. Therefore if we create a separate namespace, it should be valid for any UOL concept to receive an article within that namespace, in the same way TIL doesn't differentiate between different developer's writings (they're all equally considered Obscure Texts). Although I would perhaps see this more logically as a subspace rooted on [[General:Unofficial Lore]] rather than a true separate namespace. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

{{od}} Wow, okay a lot to respond to here, lemme try and objectively boil down the proposals currently on the table so this can be talked out -- I'll leave my personal responses for another post. Many thanks to all above for offering their thoughts, it's massively appreciated!

*'''Tiered References Suggestion Rejected: No special reference tier for the notes, keep all references as UOL. Most everyone above seems massively against creating a new tier.'''
*'''Suggestion #1: Make a seperate space for overall coverage and making lorespace-esque pages about the notes. More people than not seem to find this potentially viable.'''
**Side Thought #1: One editor suggests this can emulate bookspace style in its coverage of the material.
**Side Thought #2: One editor thinks that this space should not exist at all unless it's going to cover all UOL, because it comes too close to a tiering this as higher than other UOL. The same editor suggest using generalspace for hosting all our coverage for this instead, rather than creating a new space.
*'''Suggestion #2: Two editors suggest that in an ad hoc exception, we allow the content of the notes to be used in regular lorespace -- but ''only'' the contents of these notes, other UOL would not be allowed coverage in lorespace in this fashion.'''
**Side Thought #3: Two editors suggest something similar, but that topics officially referenced can use generic names from the official source(s) for page titles and allow the content UOL from the notes to be covered there. However, the first editor suggested the approach of using the UOL names for page titles, as it was agreed to do with [[Lore:Parrapton]] and [[Lore:Lorais River]] (topics things that officially appear/are referenced officially).
**Side Thought #4: I introduced the above suggestion, while placing [[Template:Notice|notices]] at the top of such pages noting that the information is derived from a secondary source (as Nukepedia does for pages concerning ''Fallout Bible'' contents).
{{uns|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|04:59, 22 January 2026 (UTC)}}

:I also believe the suggestion of a "psuedo-space" or "subspace" still within General space suggested by Enodoc, which I'd maybe lean instead of a whole space but I could go either way really at this point. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 06:53, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

::Sorry, my bad. Had kind of a lot to compile there. That part has now been added above. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:14, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

:::Okay, following up on this. Personally my preference would be Suggestion #2 with Side Thought #4 tacked on, it just seems the simplest to implement and the most pleasant method of handling this overall in my mind.

:::The separate "julianspace" of Suggestion #1 would also work well enough. Though I'm afraid can't agree with Side Thought #2 about it somehow ''having'' to contain all UOL contents within the space... we do entirely have the discretion to decide things like this, there's not like a 'mathematical rule' that must be followed in order to decide how to handle our coverage here man. And really if fan things like ''Tamriel Rebuilt'' or ''Better Cities'' can have exclusive spaces, I think it's more than reasonable for a developer driven thing like this to have its own as well if we choose. In regards to shuffling it all into generalspace under subpages, I would dislike that and I think it would make it much harder for our users to discover and navigate the materials once recorded versus a unique space which would be on/off toggleable in UESP search. —[[User:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead]] ([[User talk:TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead|talk]]) 07:59, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

::::If it's my comment you're referring to as "Side Thought #2", the point was that there's no good reason to give one dev's UOL preferential treatment over any other, which was the exact same reason people opposed a separate reference tier. If it is theoretically viable for a separate namespace to be created for one dev's UOL, then it stands to reason that any dev's UOL could also theoretically have a separate namespace. Remember that TR3 and BC4 only have separate namespaces because it was decided that content didn't belong in MWMod or OBMod (spaces which already exist for mod content); so I would say for one dev's UOL to have it's own namespace primarily for the purpose of lorespace-adjacent articles, we first need to consider the parallel that any UOL concepts get their own lorespace-adjacent articles (whether directly in Lorespace, somewhere in General with the UOL source material, or in their own "UOL" namespace). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 14:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

== Trivia/citing myself as a source ==

Hey there! The social media [https://www.facebook.com/share/p/188yfZYRLL/ post about Slouchbears] reminded me of a similar bit of trivia: at PAX East 2018, in the build of ESO they had for the Summerset demo, [[ON:Bright Moons Lunar Moth|Bright Moons Lunar Moths]] didn't exist, but rather there were identical (but orange) moths named "Feather Moths" all around Summerset. Like Slouchbears, these don't exist as a creature in the final game, but the NPC [[ON:Feathermoth|Feathermoth]] is named after them, and there's two references to them in the form of a Treasure description and NPC dialogue, so we've got them listed on the [[Lore:Moth|Lore:Moth]] page.

I think it's worth adding this to the appropriate pages since trivia is always fun and it helps explain the random handful of references, but as far as I'm aware, the only source aside from my own memories is my [https://blog.uesp.net/pax-east-2018-saturday-bethesda-gameplay-day/ blog post] from April 10, 2018 where I mention them by name (though not that they were orange) - I even double-checked the ESO Live broadcasts from around that time, but those used newer builds that had the newer moths. (The event and my post were in April 2018, the demo build was from Feb according to my other post about the event, and the Chapter was released in June.) Is it appropriate in this scenario to cite my own old post as a source? ~ [[User:Alarra|Alarra]] ([[User_talk:Alarra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alarra|contribs]]) 06:41, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

:Since it was published in a blog post I believe it should be fine. Hopefully there might be something in the old files too. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 06:52, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

::To second Rim's comment, yes this is totally fine. If you're the foremost knowledgeable person that published about it, you should be able to cite your own sources as long as it is not excessive and with good faith. There is the problem of verifiability, but we have to be lenient when we don't have any other surviving sources. This happens all the time in academia (there are some edge cases and differences, as you can plagiarize yourself in academia, which would not be applicable in this scenario). --[[User:Ilaro|Ilaro]] ([[User talk:Ilaro|talk]]) 11:09, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

== Documentation about how to use icons in a page ==
I edited [[Skyrim:Enchanting]] to add a detail about renaming enchanted items on the Switch. To match the format of the section I was editing, I added a template call to put the nintendo-switch icon in next to the text I added. It took me a rather long time (15-30 minutes) to figure out how to do this, despite me having experience with Wikipedia editing and MediaWiki admin. Is there a page on this wiki explaining how to use icons when editing a page? Should I start creating one? I couldn't find one linked from [[UESPWiki:Getting Started]]

[[User:Bsammon|Bsammon]] ([[User talk:Bsammon|talk]]) 22:49, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal: On the (potential) de-listing of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (from gamespace) ==

This is a proposal on why I believe we should de-list the Unofficial Skyrim Patch (and Unofficial Special Edition Patch, etc) from Skyrim's gamespace, and my reasonings for it. As a some of us know, a short while ago an exposé on the patch and its developers, albeit primarily Arthmoor, was released. I want to clarify before going deeper in that whilst -some- of this comes into play into the proposal, my main concern remains the amount of "false flag" bugs that the patch "fixes" and are eventually added to UESP (oftentimes by patch developers themselves) Skyrimspace pages. I will however be using the exposé video as a source often, as I've struggled to find the original posts lost to time, and the video does a good job of showing the most relevant ones. Whenever a source points to this video, it will be to the respective timestamped location.

A lot of these "fixes" are extremely subjective and less-so bug fixes but instead are either "balance changes" made by the mod developers, or personal interpretations of lore and the setting. All of which are classified as "bugs" by the mod developers, and subsequently so on UESP's gamespace pages. Now, there are -a lot- of these changes, impossible to document them all here, so these will inherently be cherry picked by the most blatant ones. For this reason I will actually have multiple proposals by the end of this thread. So lets begin, first with some "bug" examples.

----
* The [[Skyrim:Restoration#Necromage_when_playing_as_a_vampire|Necromage perk]] makes spells more effective against an undead. If you are a vampire, which tags you as undead, it makes self-targeted spells more effective against you. This is removed by the Unofficial Patch as it's considered a bug. On UESP it was listed a bug as well. Personally I do not see how this is a bug, an oversight or exploit at most.

* [[Skyrim:Redbelly_Mine|Redbelly Mine]] has corpses killed by spiders within. An NPC meanwhile claims no one has been hurt by spiders. The Unofficial Patch "fixes" this by removing the corpses from the mine. This isn't a bug to be fixed, this is an in-world NPC not being all knowing. This Mine also has another "bug" fixed. Albeit this second bug fix is a bit more subjective. The mine in vanilla is an Ebony mine, albeit some NPC's refer to it as an Iron mine. On the other hand, the mine is located in Shor's Stone which also makes narrative sense, considering Ebony is the blood of Lorkhan and Shor is Lorkhan. In ESO, this mine is -also- an ebony mine. The Patch changes this to an Iron mine, and whilst this is more subjective and less clear-cut, I still do not think this is a "bug". However, this one is no longer listed on Redbelly Mine's page bug list in its entirety, due to a small edit discussion from a few months ago. In addition to this, this "fix" adds an entirely new mine to Skyrim with Ebony to compensate. This is not a bug fix, this is an outright worldspace change.
** And yet, this remains controversial, with Arthmoor himself as of 6th November 2025 sharing his thoughts on what he perceives as a bug. However, his sharing of thoughts extended to -deleting- talk page comments of other users that go against USSEP's approach.

* [[Skyrim:Aval_Atheron|Aval Atheron]] is a general goods merchant who in dialogue claims to sell just about anything ""Assorted fruits and vegetables, all delicious and affordable!", "I've a little of everything for sale, come and see for yourself!", "Wherever I can find them. If you're the type who worries over where something came from, you may want to move on."" However his merchant stall only shows meat. The Patch considers this a bug and does the following two "bug fixes". It removes all non-meat goods from his merchant inventory, and blocks dialogue lines unrelated to meat. I have no idea how these can be considered bugs. They're listed as bugs on UESP as well.

* The famous [[Skyrim:Fortify_Restoration|Restoration Loop]] is admittedly an exploit, which is "fixed" by the patch. But personally I do not see how this is a bug. This is another extremely subjective one, and I'm mostly only including it to show how subjective bug fixes are and why globally classifying all these things as bugs could be a bad thing.

* There's a few "fixes" that on UESP are not listed as bug fixes but instead as notes, such as the Patch adding an extra room to the Ragged Flagon, or Mjoll's sword being changed from a one-hander to two-hander. Personally, if all these "fixes" were in the notes instead of "bugs" I'd have less of an issue, but then I think "why bother having them"?

* This "fix" admittedly I'm not sure if it's even on UESP, as it is incredibly time-consuming to check, and IMO if it is on UESP it isn't listed as a bug or fix, but outright in quest and npc dialogue pages. Bethesda consistently writes "jarls" in the lowercase, whilst the Patch "corrects" all mentions of jarl to use the uppercase. I'll copy paste from the patch's buglist page itself: "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before jarls and moots." -> "The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before Jarls and Moots." (Bug #31783); DialogueCompanionsJorrvaskrWarTopic [000DAB27]: "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of jarls." -> "There's no honor to be had in the squabbling of Jarls." (Bug #31781) They also do this with "steward -> Steward"

* The [[Skyrim:Archmage's Robes|Archmage's Robes]] can be worn with a circlet in vanilla Skyrim. The Patch considers this a bug and prevents circlets (and dragonpriest masks) from being worn together with the robe. This is also listed as a bug on UESP.

* The [[Skyrim:The_Guardian_Stones|Thief Guardian Stone]] is changed to no longer boost Archery, instead Archery is boosted by the Warrior Stone. Whilst there are two other buffs in the game which consider Archery a Warrior skill instead of a Thief skill, this still feels more like a balance change than anything. On UESP this has conflicts as well, as the Archery page lists the change as a Note, whilst the Guardian Stone page lists it as a Bug.

Okay, there's countless bugs fixed or "fixed" by the patch, I can't go through them all here. These ones caught my eye the most, and are once again admittedly cherry-picked. So, lets move onto the less gameplay and more community related issues. This will be quite subjective.
----

The patch developers have curated a hostile environment towards other bug fix mods. They've regularly abused DMCA strike systems to take down other bug fix mods and *legal* ports of his own mod where he had no standing to take it down, to the point even Nexus pointed such out.[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=XTJRU1_DaCbJ15LP&t=3039][https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/np8bi8/arthmoor_has_possibly_illegally_used_dmca_to_get/] and Arthmoor himself has harassed and belittled people so often to the extent of being banned from subreddits such as skyrimmods[https://youtu.be/q6OqJOSmDrY?si=QVVd-MWhGZO8zLAV&t=2975]. Personally, I do not want to go in length into the drama here as that is secondary. One of the sources I listed in this section is the "exposé" (as I couldn't find the original reddit posts myself easily) so if you wish, watch it and make up your own mind. Regardless, I think it is worth mentioning as it will tie into one of my proposals, so lets get onto those.

*'''Proposal One:''' This is the most lenient one. All "bug fixes" are moved to the Notes section on their respective pages, as some UESP pages already do this. This keeps the information visible whilst getting rid of the hard cut "bug" label on many things which aren't bugs.

*'''Proposal Two:''' The incoherent and more subjective "bug fixes" are removed from the pages. We can perhaps list them on the modspace for the patch instead.

*'''Proposal Three:''' All mentions of the unofficial patch are purged from UESP's gamespace. This is a nuclear option, and this is where the drama part comes in. Considering how -hostile- Arthmoor is to other modders and the general community at large, I feel weird seeing UESP "endorse" him in such a manner. I understand this one might be a bit too extreme for some, but considering the years of conflict caused by the head of this patch's dev team, I do think it's still worth considering. Moreso with Arthmoor's antics regarding his mod going as far as to deleting fair talk page related criticism on the UESP itself. Although I very much understand if the other two options, especially Proposal One, are more acceptable.

Well, that's my proposal- I hope we can have a productive conversation on this topic [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 07:27, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:On actual bugs: I think it's important to continue noting where a bug is fixed by USSEP, but I think that concept should be expanded to include any bug-fix compilation mod. USSEP is not the only mod that fixes bugs, and anything that ''is'' an actual bug-fix should not be relegated from Bugs to Notes.
:On subjective balance changes: Here I agree with Proposal One. Anything that is ''not'' an obvious bug should indeed be moved to Notes. And perhaps if we have that, we could also detail any mod that reverts USSEP's subjective changes, so anyone who is using USSEP for the bug fixes has an idea of how to restore vanilla functionality. But if we continue to indicate where USSEP actually fixes bugs, I think we also need to continue indicating the other stuff too; while it is technically not relevant, only covering half of what it does seems incomplete. Moving those things to modspace per Proposal Two could work, but we don't need that page turning into another USSEP change log list, so I think that would be less beneficial overall.
:On de-listing: As I said above, I'd rather see more mods that fix bugs being included, than removing information of when a bug is fixed. But I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of audit on what we actually consider a "bug" (based on our definition, not USSEP's). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:55, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::I've always wanted to completely purge "This bug is fixed by [mod]" from the wiki. I feel like information on mods should stay in mod-space and not be included on pages about the vanilla game. USSEP is linked to on well over 1,000 articles, which comes across as a big endorsement. I have a bugfix mod of my own, and if I were to link it on the hundred relevant UESP articles then I would generate a not-insignificant amount of revenue from the free advertising, since the Nexus page is monetised. Beyond USSEP, we also have Morrowind articles saying "This bug is fixed by [mod]" that link to a bugfix project that the active Morrowind modding community considers outdated and no longer recommend.

::Perhaps another solution would be to edit the Bug template to link to a page in mod-space that contains a list of bugfixing mods for that game. This way people can be made aware that various bugfix mods exist without choosing a single one to be advertised across the wiki. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 16:49, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

::: I'm in full agreement with Samantha, it has also left a weird taste in my mouth to see an "endorsement" in this way. Even if it's not UESP doing it, it's still allowing it. I would personally be up for your proposal of linking to a bug fixing mod list page on a bug template instead of outright listing the mod. This would allow us to maintain bug fixes/subjective change info without showing favouritism to anyone, and without cluttering gamespace pages with 30 bug fix mods. And USSEP aside, it'd also mostly resolve the issue of outdated information as well for sure. [[User:Ithelia|—Ithelia, the Daedric Prince of Paths and She Who Saw and Wept]] ([[User talk:Ithelia|talk]]) 19:25, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:::: Yeah, I support this. Even if the mod is super popular, we shouldn't be listing it uniquely compared to other mods. The patch infamously adds a whole other room to the Ratway for people to sleep in, which far oversteps the territory of mere bug fixing. Not that it being strictly bug fixing would mean it deserves the coverage it gets. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 23:20, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::::: I also support this. Proposal two is sensible, but I'm not opposed to proposal three, given how any attempts at an alternative patch for Skyrim have repeatedly shut down by the operators of USSEP under ludicrous pretenses, in some ways it is odd to endorse the project at all. —[[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 18:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::For the sake of example, I made some edits to the Bug template to produce [[User:Samantha_Says/Bug|this template]]. Official patches have had the word "official" removed as there's no longer a need to clarify, and mod bugfixes link to "[Namespace] Mod:Mods" to showcase my suggestion. This would rename some categories, but would no longer advertise one specific mod over others. The trackerid parameter has also been removed.

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug.|OSP|1.10.0}}

::::::{{User:Samantha Says/Bug|This is an example of a bug fixed by a mod.|SMOD}}

::::::This isn't intended to be the final template, but hopefully is something visual that can help the discussion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 22:24, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::I agree that UESP's endorsement of specific mods in gamespace is a poor decision in hindsight, particularly with Arthmoor's Oblivion and Skyrim patches. Those mods are nothing short of controversial at this point, despite their widespread use, a bit like the Morrowind Sound & Graphics Overhaul became over time.

:::::::I like where Samantha is going with idea of hiding the name and version of the patch while preserving the metadata in the page's source. It may look even cleaner to remove the sub-bullet and add some sort of parenthical superscript at the end of the bug description via the template. In any case, hiding version numbers is a good idea because no general reader cares which version fixed a bug—they just use the latest version. It's only good for editors to find the relevant changelog sometime in the future. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::::I agree that de-emphasizing any single bug fixing mod over others is definitely the right way to go. However I do think for people that have run into the bug, knowing which mod would fix it for them would still be valuable to include somehow, but in a way that multiple mods can be listed that makes sense, at least for bugs that impede quest progress or otherwise soft-lock you out of quests. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 03:03, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

== Is it time to merge the Shivering namespace into the Oblivion namespace? ==

This was discussed many years ago, and it was decided not to go ahead with it. However, with the release of Oblivion Remastered I think it's time. The Dragonborn namespace was merged into the Skyrim namespace after the release of the Special Edition, when Dragonborn was fully integrated into the base game. Shivering Isles is now in the same position: Remastered fully integrates it into the base game, so I would say that the namespaces should now be merged.

It also brings up the question of Morrowind. It's obviously not in the same situation as Oblivion and Skyrim (for now), but I don't know if it makes sense to treat it differently.

[[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 21:33, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

:I've never been a fan of the expansion namespaces. It's especially frustrating when I want to compare equipment in Morrowind and have to open three different pages just to see what's available. With the release of Oblivion Remastered, I think makes sense to merge Shivering into Oblivion space, and therefore I agree that Morrowind being treated uniquely out of all of the games would be unusual and warrant merging its expansion namespaces too. As a user, I find superscripts like Dragonborn{{Dragonborn}} and Creation Club's{{CC}} to work perfectly in letting me know that something in the article belongs to an expansion. [[User:Samantha Says|Samantha Says]] ([[User talk:Samantha Says|talk]]) 23:52, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

::From what I have heard, the Dragonborn namespace merge was quite a bit of work. I wasn't around yet for that, but if true, we should get ahead while we can. When TES VI releases we'll have much great priorities than this so it's better to do this sooner rather than later. The precedent put forth by Sheridan seems valid, seems like the exact same thing as Special Edition, so for consistency, we should have Shivering stuff in the main Oblivion-space. [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 00:02, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::: I'd also support the merge, long thought we should have done this. -[[User:Tarponpet|Tarponpet]] ([[User talk:Tarponpet|talk]]) 00:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::: Merging namespaces is a massive amount of wiki work that needs a dedicated team for its feasibility. Many articles within the expansion pack namespaces aren't even complete in their own right, especially Morrowind's expansion packs. Articles that still need images, dialogue, and even need to be wiki-fied in the first place. I understand the desire for simplicity that comes from the merging of the expansion spaces, but I do not see a large enough payoff in the improvement of the reader's access to the site in such projects relative to the massive effort it will require; unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams. I am not inherently opposed to this happening to namespaces, but I believe gamespace for Oblivion and Morrowind both have many larger issues that need addressing before this is seriously considered. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 01:26, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::I agree that they should be merged as the expansion is base game now due to Oblivion remastered.--[[User:Analeah Oaksong|Analeah Oaksong]] ([[User talk:Analeah Oaksong|talk]]) 02:16, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::::Of course, I appreciate it's a lot of work, especially for a purely volunteer website. But if we leave them as is, then there will be an incongruity between the Oblivion and Skyrim namespaces. And let's say that from TES VI onwards we decide to keep all expansions in the main namespace from the beginning. Morrowind and Oblivion will become increasingly anachronistic. And the Dragonborn Merge Project obviously suffered from having to figure everything out for the first time. Now that we know what to do, it will simplify the process at least a little bit. I just think that there's a good chance that the merges will end up being inevitable, depending on our approach to future games and their DLC. It's better to start early, since as [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] points out TES VI will obviously become the main priority when it releases. Even if it is still years away. Right now there's not a lot going on in TES world, apart from new content for ESO. If not now, when? [[User:SheridanSinclair|SheridanSinclair]] ([[User talk:SheridanSinclair|talk]]) 13:43, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::::::The "when" is already described in my message above - "unless and until a unified front of editors commit to the transitioning of each namespace as wiki projects similar to [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Overhaul Project|MWOP]] with individual teams."
:::::::As I've laid out above, these namespaces are already neglected by editors as is. To put in perspective, the UESP started an effort to document every item in each game on individual pages in their namespaces last year, and this project has seen almost zero progress since its announcement due to a fundamental lack of editors simply contributing to it in the first place.
:::::::Who are we proposing do all of this work? I do not believe it would be fair to expect the very few active editors in gamespace to put this on their plate without any plans or commitment from the wider community. Wanting the merge to happen is great, but a want is not enough to produce results. Again - I do not see the net benefit to our readers in comparison to instead sourcing and spending such massive effort on actually completing documentation in these namespaces in the first place. —⁠[[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User Talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 14:21, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:The merging for Oblivion would also make sense from a technical perspective as, unlike the Morrowind or Skyrim expansions, the Shivering Isles content was added to oblivion.esm directly. There's no shivering.esm like there are tribunal.esm, bloodmoon.esm, dawnguard.esm, hearthfire.esm, and dragonborn.esm. --[[User:Gez|Gez]] ([[User talk:Gez|talk]]) 14:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::What I think is being misunderstood here is why the Dragonborn-Skyrim namespace merge finally ended up happening. It wasn't because the esms merged, at least not directly. The main issue was that Skyrim continued to get new content through the Creation program, and that new content was using bits an pieces from Dragonborn and Skyrim equally, so it was nearly impossible to figure out where exactly to place a quest. Something might start in Solstheim, then move to Skyrim proper, or vice versa, with equal bits of each.

::This just isn't the case for the remaster. Things are pretty clearly still delineated between SI and OB content, and the small number of new quests added have stuck to one area. There isn't a bunch of other random new official content being added to the game (at least, as far as we are currently aware), so there isn't a real reason to merge them at this time. It's a back end thing that really doesn't affect most editors or readers, and so the amount of effort involved (which ended up being significantly more than expected) is just not worth it. People want the merge just because they want it. But what it really boils down to is not typing two different letters for some pages. That's just not a good enough reason for all the effort, and a botched merge could be devastating for the wiki. It's not all that easy to just "undo" if it goes wrong. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:12, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:::At this point a merge isn't worth the hassle. As Jeancey said above, the Dragonborn merge happened not because of Special Edition, but because of Creation Club, where they started releasing content that could no longer be delineated. As far as I know, the additional content in OB Remastered Deluxe is contained entirely within Cyrodiil, and doesn't cross over to the Isles at all, like Knights of the Nine.

:::While we've already agreed that we won't do separate namespaces for DLCs and expansions in the future, where separate namespaces already exist, the only viable reason to remove such a delineation is when the delineation itself is no longer viable. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:03, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

::::This merge would be the ideal state of the wiki if all work could be done flawlessly with a bot. But it can't. Considering that number of edits dropped 78% from 2024 to 2025, the idea is effectively dead in the water. Renaming so many core content pages also carries negative effects by breaking external links and may be bad for search engine optimization, at least in the short term. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 02:36, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Online:Void Assassin

2026-03-02T15:45:06Z

Kiz: Spawn location... that's what I have the vet/hm health as, unsure what Normal health is but it might be flat?

{{Mod Header|Thieves Guild}}{{Incomplete}}{{Online NPC Summary
|image=
|imgdesc=
|race=
|gender=Male
|loc=[[ON:Maw of Lorkhaj|Maw of Lorkhaj]], The High Lunarium
|health={{ESO Veteran|normal=35,935|veteran=28,748}} {{ESO Veteran|veteran=28,748}} (Hard Mode)
|reaction=Hostile
|faction=
|class=
|condition=Dro-m'Athra
}}
'''Void Assassins''' are {{huh|Khajiit ?}} {{huh|Dro-m'Athra ?}} enemies encountered during [[ON:Rakkhat|Rakkhat]]'s fight in the [[ON:Maw of Lorkhaj|Maw of Lorkhaj]] trial. They appear in the back room of the final room after using the Eye of Jode to expose a [[ON:Void Caller|Void Caller]].
{{NewLeft}}


{{Stub|NPC}}

UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard

2026-01-20T10:25:01Z

Kiz: /* Blocked User */ Circumvent?

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Specific requests and notifications can be made on these pages:
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{{Bullet Link|[[/Block Notifications|Block Notifications]]|For blockers to record their blocks, notifying administrators to potentially take further action on them.}}
{{Bullet Link|Bot Requests|This page can be used to request that one of the wiki's bots take on a task.}}
{{Bullet Link|Creation Kit Information Requests|You can request specific Creation Kit information for articles here.}}
{{Bullet Link|Image Requests|You can request specific images for articles here.}}
{{Bullet Link|New Page Requests|You can request a new page here if you were prevented from creating the page yourself.}}
{{Bullet Link|Purge Requests|If you are having problems viewing an article on UESP, the page may need to be purged. New purge requests can be made here.}}
Past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard can be found at:
{{Bullet Link|[[/Archives|AN Archives]]|Lists all of the past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard, including major discussions, chronological archives, and previous requests for administrator, bureaucrat, or server access.}}
Nominations to become a [[UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations|patroller]] or [[UESPWiki:Autopatrolled Users#Nominations|autopatrolled user]], as well as [[UESPWiki:Bots#Bot Proposals|proposals for new bots]], should be held on their respective pages. Requests for [[UESPWiki:Userspace Patrollers#Becoming a Userspace Patroller|userspace patroller]], [[UESPWiki:Page Movers|page mover]], [[UESPWiki:Interface Editors|interface editor]], [[UESPWiki:Cartographers|cartographer]], or [[UESPWiki:Blockers#Becoming a Blocker|blocker]] rights should be made on the [[UESPWiki:Role Requests|role requests page]]. Nominations for adminship or any other [[UESPWiki:User Group Rights|user group rights]] should be posted here.
}}

== Spam Protection - Don't Allow Wiki Edits by IP addresses? ==
Sorry if this has been considered before (as I suspect it has, probably more than once), but I've noticed that most vandalism/nonsense edits relate to editors without accounts and/or users not logged in. I strongly suggest - while obviously not guaranteed to solve all such issues - all pages across the wiki should be locked from editing when the editor is not logged into a (free) account. It may go against the principle of the open nature of the wiki, but creating an account is free, and the ridiculous amount of vandalism routinely cropping up is a significant drain on the admins' limited time and detrimental to the wiki regardless. Thanks for the consideration! --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 04:55, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

: I don't think we've been struggling particularly badly with repeated vandalism of late? We have tools available to block and revert all vandalism, IP or otherwise. Reducing the pool of editors to avoid the issue seems like overcompensation to me. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

:: To your first point, we have indeed considered blocking IP edits before, a couple of times, and every time the general consensus has been what Legoless just said. There are also a lot of useful edits coming from IP addresses, not just spam and vandalism. A recent example of this is {{Pl|UESPWiki:New Page Requests|action=history|New Page Requests}}, which has a ton of edits from one particular IP. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 15:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

::: Understood - thanks for the replies and info! --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 09:38, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

== Watchlist and Recent Changes Options/Preferences? ==
One last question - for quite a while I've been hoping for two convenience options in user preferences: hiding pages' associated "talk" pages from the "watchlist", and selecting certain namespaces to hide from the "recent changes" view (e.g., I'm not interested in listing any "Online:" page changes). I understand the watchlist itself can be used to somewhat mitigate the second point, but are either of these options actually already available, and if so, how can I use them? If they're not available, could one or both please be considered for addition to the wiki? Thanks again! --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 09:38, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

: Under Recent Changes, Select one namespace: Online -> Invert selection -> Show. This will filter out ESO results. It will not hide the Online talk namespace however. I don't know of a way to exclude talk pages from RC or watchlist results. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:15, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

:: Oh, I somehow didn't look at that; thanks! But is there a way to filter out more than one namespace at the same time, or better yet, to only show "recent changes" to specific selected namespaces (I'm most interested in only the four namespaces Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim)? --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 10:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

::: This made me wonder what "Namespace: Turn on custom list" does on the RC page. The Setup link beside it goes to a preferences page unrelated to namespace filtering.

::: As a solution, check out [[User:Dillonn241/Sandbox 1|my sandbox]] and the code below. I transcluded Recent Changes and used several parameters to specify what you want. The important difference here is that with transclusions, it lets you include multiple namespaces separated by semicolons.

:::: <code><nowiki>{{Special:RecentChanges/days=90,limit=500,hidebots,namespace=104;110;116;134}}</nowiki></code>

::: See the other possible parameters on [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Recent_changes MediaWiki's Recent Changes help page].

::: [https://en.uesp.net/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=namespaces This API result] shows what UESP's namespace numbers are, in case you want to customize further.

::: —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 04:34, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

:::: Ha, I was JUST typing about how I snooped on your sandbox page (which I saw pop up on the Recent Changes list), and figured out exactly the above out based on that URL - thanks a lot for taking time to help me with this! I'd still like a way to hide "talk" pages from the Watchlist through a preferences option as well, but if that one's not possible or planned, so be it. Cheers! --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 04:41, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::I can't find anything for addressing your watchlist question. You can't transclude it in the same way, and the "Associated namespace" feature only works to ''add'' talk pages for a namespace you select. I would just recommend going into your watchlist and purging talk pages once in awhile. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 04:42, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

::::::Got it; thanks very much once again. If I knew how to bake you a plate of wiki cookies, I would. --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 04:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

{{od}} It's pretty clear from the design that they at least considered the option of watching article pages and talk pages separately, but right now, having them go hand in hand is pretty much baked in. I've tried removing one but not the other from my watchlist on a test wiki, and it worked, but being so baked in, it would take a significant rewrite to actually get that working through the UI. I'm pretty sure you couldn't even do it with an extension at this point. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:52, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

:: I see - thanks for looking into it, and for the explanation! It would have been a nice option, but it's not a big deal.--[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 05:03, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

==Username Change (Zebendal)==
Hello, I'd like to change my username to: Analeah Oaksong --[[User:Zebendal|Zebendal]] ([[User talk:Zebendal|talk]]) 02:49, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

: Done! —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 08:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

==Another vandalizing IP address-only account==
159.2.53.105 - several nonsense/"blanking" edits to Skyrim pages today that have yet to be reverted. {{unsigned|Mikeprichard|21:35, 10 January 2024 (UTC)}}
:172.251.169.141 - and another --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 02:24, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
::Looks like Jeancey got the first one and I warned and revision-deleted the second one a little earlier. Thanks! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:28, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
86.29.213.176 [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.29.213.176] - thanks, all; here's yet another. IP accounts being vandals continues to be the rule, not the exception, with at least daily incidents over the past couple weeks that I've noticed. --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 16:19, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
:Warned. As for IP accounts being primarily vandals, {{Pl|Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes|3=hideliu=1}} doesn't back you up on that. As of 14:27 (UTC) today, there have been 144 edits by 10 different IP addresses and two edits by one IP which appear to have been vandalism. Even if, for some reason, you discount the one prolific IP editor, there's still nearly a 10:1 ratio of good IP edits to vandalism. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:13, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
::If that's the case (and I've certainly noticed the single extremely prolific IP editor making constructive edits), fair enough - I'm more just frustrated on your/the UESP's behalf that so much time must be spent on this incessant nonsense in order to maintain the integrity of the wiki. Some real nutjobs out there (other than me, I mean)! --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 16:19, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
:::Hehehe. Unfortunately, that goes with the territory. Restricting edits to accounts only would almost certainly reduce the amount of vandalism, but some people are still willing to create accounts in order to vandalize, and in the meantime, we lose those edits by IP editors who don't feel their edit is worth creating an account for (which I'm guilty of myself on other wikis). – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:24, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

== Username Change Request (Thal-J) ==

Hi, just wanted to drop the dash from my name to be consistent with my Discord. So, "ThalJ". [[User:Thal-J|Thal-J]] ([[User talk:Thal-J|talk]]) 13:09, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:05, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

== Patroller Access to MediaWiki space ==

While looking at how permissions work on the Starfield wiki, a few editors noticed that there were some changes in how access to the MediaWiki namespace was handled in later versions of MediaWiki. The reason for that is to limit even administrators' access to edit pages that could be used to really mess up the wiki or create security vulnerabilities. Respecting WMF's reasoning, I've separated out the ability to edit MediaWiki space from Patrollers and turned it into its own special group. This also allows employees like ThalJ to access it without needing any additional rights. At least for now, administrators' access remains unchanged, though some things will change automatically once we get to MW 1.32. For the sake of not overcomplicating this post, I'll save that discussion for whenever the time comes.

For now, this means that any patrollers who want to continue to be able to edit MediaWiki space will need to ask me or another admin for access to it. (Admins: you can do this by selecting "interface editor" in their [[Special:UserRights|groups]].) Since we've agreed in the past that the wiki benefits from patrollers having access to MediaWiki, this is free for the asking, but for those same security reasons I mentioned, it makes sense not to give access to patrollers who will never use it or who feel less comfortable in that space. Feel free to reply here or tag/DM me on Discord if you're a patroller and would like access to MediaWiki space again. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:11, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

:Thank you, RobinHood. It's good to have these permissions separate, just like how we have blocker rights separate (there are a lot of inactive patrollers). I can't think of any patrollers off-hand who would need it right now, so we'll have to wait for requests. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 04:16, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

== ESO Scions of Ithelia PTS Release (Update 41) ==

:* uespLog -- Might need one update in the sales data to not error.
:* File Uploads -- [https://esofiles.uesp.net/update-41pts/ Done!]
:* Champion Points -- [https://esolog.uesp.net/viewCps.php?version=41pts Done!]
:* Skills -- [https://esolog.uesp.net/viewSkills.php?version=41pts Done!]
:* Skill Coefficients -- Done!
:* Items -- Done!
:* Icons -- Done!
:* Maps -- New Maps Added/Uploaded!
:* Build Editor -- Mostly done!
:* Achievements - Done!
:* Collectibles - Done!
:* Antiquities - Done!
-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 16:07, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

== Vandalism blocked ==

Blocked [[Special:Contributions/Beaneater00|Beaneater00]] for [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Morrowind:Gentleman_Jim_Stacey&curid=19417&action=history inserting nonsense] into page. User was [[User_talk:Beaneater00|warned]] and persisted in making disruptive edits. Reasonable time was allowed for the user to see the warning (two further edits were made after warning was issued). Block will require an extension. — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 13:10, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
:Changed the block to indefinite. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 15:20, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

== New Bureaucrat ==

Just a small announcement to say that [[User:RobinHood70|RobinHood70]] has been granted the [[UESPWiki:Bureaucrats|Bureaucrat]] role by Daveh. This is UESP's first new Bureaucrat since Nephele's departure. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:02, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

:Nice. Shoutout to Robin for bein such a chill guy [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 17:57, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

::Great choice. Much better to have Robin with these rights than Nephele, who has been inactive for years. It was only a few weeks ago I suggested having those rights taken off. I'm confident he'll use the rights well, in the few cases they apply. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 19:04, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

:::You already got my congratulations, but I'll reiterate that you're the perfect candidate for this. Happy to have a new bureaucrat on our team! --[[User:Ilaro|Ilaro]] ([[User talk:Ilaro|talk]]) 21:02, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

== Repeat vandal blocked ==

I have [[User_talk:159.2.53.105|re-blocked]] a previously-blocked user whose block has expired and who has returned and made [[Special:Contributions/159.2.53.105|further disruptive edits]] to the wiki. Block will need to be extended. Cheers! — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 20:30, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Edit: And both RobinHood and MolagBallet already got it. Thanks! — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 20:38, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== Administrator etiquette ==

I was hoping a neutral admin, perhaps one that wasn’t involved in the discussion could take a look at some of the recent edits and edit summaries of Jeancey, particularly the ones found on [[Lore Talk:Skyrim|this page]]. The edit summaries that are passive aggressive are one matter, but some of the latest posts in the talk page itself are getting dangerously close to ad hominem if not already crossing that threshold. I would assume some of this stuff is pushing the boundaries of the etiquette guidelines for a standard user, nevermind an administrator who should serve as a standard setter for professionalism and proper etiquette. [[User:Dcking20|Dcking20]] ([[User talk:Dcking20|talk]]) 22:56, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
:While I agree that things started to go off the rails a little bit, it appears that they've recovered now, at least from what I can see. If you think I'm missing something egregious, feel free to DM me on Discord or send me an e-mail and point it out. I think the existence of this post in itself will serve as a reminder to everyone to try to keep their tempers under control, but I honestly don't see anything that needs any further action than that. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:14, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

== ESO Scions of Ithelia Release (Update 40) ==

:* uespLog -- Updated to 3.22 to fix a crash due to an API change.
:* File Uploads -- [https://esofiles.uesp.net/update-41/ Done!]
:* Skills -- Done!
:* CP -- Done!
:* Skill Coefficients -- Done!
:* Icons/Images -- Done!
:* Items -- Done!
:* Maps -- No updated maps.
:* Achievements -- Done!
:* Collectibles -- Done!
:* Book Data -- Done!
:* Recipe Data -- Done!
:* API -- Done!
:* Build Editor -- Mostly done....

-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 20:21, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

== Talk page created in error ==

I accidentally made a talk page post on the wrong page. There was no prior content on the talk page. Not sure if it is standard policy to delete such pages or not but if so its [[Template talk:Heroes]]. My bad! [[User:Mindtrait0r|Mindtrait0r]] ([[User talk:Mindtrait0r|talk]]) 14:18, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

== Undo page move request for Daggerfall:On Oblivion ==

I'd appreciate someone taking a look at this minor issue I brought this up on the [[Daggerfall talk:On Oblivion|talk page]]. It looks like [[Daggerfall:On Oblivion]] was moved in error. [[User:Boustrophedon|Boustrophedon]] ([[User talk:Boustrophedon|talk]]) 10:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
:Moved, and replied to your talk page post there. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:38, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

== Interface Editor ==

Hi team - I was wondering if I could apply for Interface Editor permissions. That way I can keep on top of [[MediaWiki:Nsinfo-namespacelist|modspace pseudospaces]] that need to be created for the [[UESP:Modspace Project|Modspace Project]], as well as make any tweaks to [[MediaWiki:uespvector.css|Vector]] or the [[User:Enodoc#ESO Alliance Colours|ESO colours]] in CSS without having to pester admins to do it. Thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 21:42, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
:You are already an interface editor. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 21:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

== ESO Gold Road PTS Release (Update 42) ==

:* uespLog -- Latest version seems to work fine.
:* File Uploads -- [https://esofiles.uesp.net/update-42pts/ Done!]
:* Champion Points -- [https://esolog.uesp.net/viewCps.php?version=42pts Done!]
:* Skills -- [https://esolog.uesp.net/viewSkills.php?version=42pts Done!]
:* Skill Coefficients -- Done!
:* Items -- Done!
:* Icons -- Done!
:* Maps -- Done!
:* Build Editor -- Mostly done!
:* Achievements - Done!
:* Collectibles - Done!
:* Antiquities - Done!
-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 15:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

== ESO Gold Road Release (Update 42) ==
:* uespLog -- Updated to 3.24 to some issues.
:* File Uploads -- [https://esofiles.uesp.net/update-43/ Done!]
:* Skills -- Done!
:* CP -- Done!
:* Skill Coefficients -- Done!
:* Icons/Images -- Done!
:* Items -- Done!
:* Maps -- Done!
:* Achievements -- Done!
:* Collectibles -- Done!
:* Book Data -- Done!
:* Recipe Data -- Done!
:* API -- Done!
:* Build Editor -- Mostly done....

-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 14:51, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

== UESP:ESO Alchemy Calculator, tab "Learn" ==

Hi,
I followed the first guide on the "Learn"-tab of page
: https://esolog.uesp.net/viewPotions.php
to discover all the traits.
: Quote: From level 1 Alchemy you can learn the traits of all reagents in '''31''' different combinations

But there are only '''30''' steps in this guide. And at the end there are traits left undiscovered for 2 reagents:
: Dragon's Bile: trait "Vulnerability"
: Fleshfly Larva: traits "Vulnerability" and "Vitality"
By combining the two reagents, all traits were discovered.

With the following 31st line the guide would be complete:
: <code><nowiki><li reagent1="Dragon's Bile" reagent2="Fleshfly Larva" reagent3="">Dragon's Bile + Fleshfly Larva</li></nowiki></code>

(Edit: The result was always the same with multiple characters.)

[[User:IceMan|IceMan]] ([[User talk:IceMan|talk]]) 01:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks for the note, should be fixed in a minute. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 18:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

== ESO PTS (Update 43) ==

:* uespLog -- Latest version seems to work fine.
:* File Uploads -- [https://esofiles.uesp.net/update-43pts/ Done]
:* Champion Points -- Done!
:* Skills -- Done!
:* Skill Coefficients -- Done!
:* Items -- Done!
:* Icons -- Done!
:* Maps -- Done!
:* Build Editor -- Mostly done!
:* Achievements - Done!
:* Collectibles - Done!
:* Antiquities - Done!
-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 18:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

== Interface Editor Request ==

To make minor updates to darkmode.css as/when needed '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 22:01, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:22, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

== ESO PTS (Update 44) ==

:* uespLog -- Latest version seems to work fine.
:* File Uploads -- [https://esofiles.uesp.net/update-44pts/ Done]
:* Champion Points -- Done!
:* Skills -- Done!
:* Skill Coefficients -- Done!
:* Items -- Done!
:* Icons -- Done!
:* Maps -- Done!
:* Build Editor -- Mostly done!
:* Achievements - Done!
:* Collectibles - Done!
:* Antiquities - Done!
-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 14:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

== User Rights Request ==

Remove bot from [[User:CyrusBot|CyrusBot]] and administrator from me. —[[User:Dillonn241|Dillonn241]] ([[User talk:Dillonn241|talk]]) 17:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:Done. If you change your mind in the near future, let me know and I'll restore them. Otherwise, you'll have to reapply for whatever roles through the usual routes. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:29, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

== Username Change Request (ViVYer) ==

Hello, I'd a username change from my current username to: Aanthirin. [[User:ViVYer|Aanthirin]] ([[User talk:ViVYer|talk]]) 22:13, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 23:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== ESO (Update 44) ==

:* uespLog -- Updated to 3.25 to fix a few things.
:* File Uploads -- [https://esofiles.uesp.net/update-44/ Done]
:* Champion Points -- Done!
:* Skills -- Done!
:* Skill Coefficients -- Done!
:* Items -- Done!
:* Icons -- Done!
:* Maps --
:* Build Editor -- Mostly done!
:* Achievements - Done!
:* Collectibles - Done!
:* Antiquities - Done!
-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 16:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

== Username Change Request (CoolBlast3) ==
Hey! I'd like to change my current username to "Ithelia" if possible, thank you! [[User:CoolBlast3|CoolBlast3]] ([[User talk:CoolBlast3|talk]]) 21:24, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

: Done. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 21:26, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

== Possibility to view Recent Changes longer than 90 days ago? ==

I'm not sure whether this is the best page to ask this question, but is it possible to view Recent Changes that are older than 90 days ago? Or does one need to obtain certain privileges before one is able to do so? Simply asking since I've been volunteering since 2020 in watching all Oblivion and Shivering pages (both main and talk), where I do my best to review posts and questions of other users, but unfortunately I missed some days worth of changes made over 90 days ago. [[User:C0rTeZ48|C0rTeZ48]] ([[User talk:C0rTeZ48|talk]]) 00:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:Sorry, no, it's not possible. Internally, Recent Changes are tracked in a separate table, and after 90 days, that info is deleted. The number of days can be changed by altering the server settings, but even if we did that, it's not retroactive. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 15:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::And what if one is a Patroller? They don't receive auto-updates of changes made more than 90 days ago? [[User:C0rTeZ48|C0rTeZ48]] ([[User talk:C0rTeZ48|talk]]) 11:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::We don't receive updates, we just see Recent Changes and our Watchlist with (a lot of) {{FC|red|!}} marks for unpatrolled edits, and we have a [Mark as patrolled] button when we look at a diff. RC cuts off after 90 days for us, same as it does for you. If we look at anything older than that, either in RC or a diff, there's no exclamation mark and no button. For all intents, it's been patrolled at that point. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 15:20, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

== Edits to Tamriel Rebuilt:Ahhesha ==

There have recently been a number of low quality edits to [[Tamriel Rebuilt:Ahhesha]] from a couple new users and IPs. It doesn't look like it's vandalism necessarily; I think it might just be a new user still learning how to edit. Either way, I thought I'd let the admins know so you can give out the proper warnings and maybe protect the page if necessary. --[[User:Ohnoitsmangofett|Ohnoitsmangofett]] ([[User talk:Ohnoitsmangofett|talk]]) 15:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

== Requesting Username Change (Acynatic) ==
Hi, I'd like to request a username change from my current name to "Anariya". Thanks! [[User:Acynatic|Acynatic]] ([[User talk:Acynatic|talk]]) 12:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:01, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

== Request for admin opinion on a Skyrim talk:Redbelly Mine comment ==

To avoid escalating things into an edit war, I'd like to get get an admin's opinion on a message left on the [[Skyrim talk:Redbelly Mine]] page. The message, which read "Classic USSEP, changing random stuff that doesn't count as a bug. [[User:Histendarr|Histendarr]]", was deleted by [[User:Arthmoor]] for being a "Baseless attack against the USSEP". I reverted Arthmoor's edit given that the comment was left on a talk page. Arthmoor then reverted my edit, stating "This edit is blatant trolling and has no place here".

Personally, I don't see the message as either an attack or a troll. It isn't overly aggressive nor does it seem like it was intended to offend: it's just someone sharing their opinion on USKP/USSEP. I also question whether Arthmoor is the best person to decide whether this comment is acceptable or not, given his connection to USKP/USSEP. — [[User:Ohnoitsmangofett|Ohnoitsmangofett]] ([[User talk:Ohnoitsmangofett|talk]]) 20:37, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
:Since it's an older discussion, the comment qualifies as a necropost, plus it adds no useful information about the topic at hand, so it should remain off the page. You're right that Arthmoor would have a natural bias when it comes to USSEP, but that doesn't mean he's not allowed to remove comments like that, just that he has to be sure he can justify it when he's doing so. If there's any question about the neutrality of it, though, you should do exactly what you did and bring it up with uninvolved users for a second opinion. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:31, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

== Bluesky, Mastodon, Threads, and Youtube ==

We have social media presence on these sites and should link them on the sidebar.
*[https://bsky.app/profile/uesp.bsky.social Bluesky]
*[https://mstdn.ca/@uesp Mastodon]
*[https://www.threads.net/@unofficial_elder_scrolls_pages Threads]
*[https://www.youtube.com/@UnofficialElderScrollsPages Youtube]

We'll also want to update the Bluesky link to be a UESP link instead ultimately, but we'll need Daveh to do that. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 20:57, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

:I feel that a Threads link is redundant due to the Instagram link having such high overlap and already covering everything Threads does, though I feel the rest of the links to Bluesky, Mstdn, and YouTube should be added. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 21:11, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

::I'll try to get to work on this later this afternoon. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:53, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:::And done. You may need to do a hard refresh. For now, I've included Threads as its own separate thing, but it's easy enough to take that out if we decide against it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:47, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Blocked Vandalism ==

Reporting that I blocked a vandal for repeatedly adding nonsense to pages, as required for a blocker. I think this one's pretty self-explanatory:

[[Special:Contributions/2A0A:EF40:E0D:C001:2007:76D0:F59B:B0DD|2A0A:EF40:E0D:C001:2007:76D0:F59B:B0DD]]

Block will need to be extended. Reported in the Discord channel as well. — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 15:20, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
:Taken care of. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:49, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

== Dev has been upgraded to 1.31 ==

Just letting everyone know that dev has been upgraded to mw 1.31. This is a minor upgrade that shouldn't impact anything big, however anyone is welcome to run some tests on it. [[User:Eckserah|Eckserah]] ([[User talk:Eckserah|talk]]) 17:14, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
:It looks like the side search bar on dev isn't working quite right. I tried putting in <code>UESPWiki:MetaTemplate</code> and it just gave me an empty search results page. Putting the same thing in the search bar at the top of the page, however, works fine. I tried a few different times to make sure I hadn't just made a typo and I also tried switching between `UESPWiki` and `Project`, but it was the same thing every time.

:That might have something to do with UespCustomCode, I'm not sure. I haven't worked with that much. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:37, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

== ESO (Update 45) ==
:* uespLog -- Updated to 3.26 to fix a few things.
:* File Uploads -- [https://esofiles.uesp.net/update-45/ Done]
:* Champion Points -- Done!
:* Skills -- Done (Need to finish and check crafted skills)!
:* Skill Coefficients -- Done!
:* Items -- Done!
:* Icons -- Done!
:* Maps -- Nothing to Update
:* Build Editor -- Mostly done !
:* Achievements - Done!
:* Collectibles - Done!
:* Antiquities - Done!
:* API -- Done!
-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 15:11, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

== Username Change (Mjolnir) ==

Hey, when I started this account I named it Mjolnir117. It was Mjolnir117 as recent as 2024 according to my email. If possible, could I get it changed back to Mjolnir117? I know for sure that I did not change it.
[[User:Mjolnir|Mjolnir]] ([[User talk:Mjolnir|talk]]) 04:40, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
:There's no record of any name changes to your account before now, so I'm not sure what happened there, but either way, you're Mjolnir117 now. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 12:58, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

== Upgrade to MediaWiki 1.31 ==

The upgrade of the main UESP site to 1.31 will be performed this Thursday (April 3rd) at 9am EST. There is no downtime expected but the search index will need to be rebuilt which will take a few days to complete.

Looks for updates here as the upgrade is performed and note any related issues below. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 14:09, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

:* Upgrade is complete. Search is being reindexed which will take a day or so to complete. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 13:41, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

:I've just gone through the release notes quickly and at a glance, I don't see any major changes in this version that would affect most users. You may notice slight formatting changes or new info/options on some special pages, but I think that's it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:14, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

:A [https://www.reddit.com/r/ElderScrolls/comments/1jqt6pn/help_with_uesp/ user on Reddit] has reported issues with getting a 500 error when trying to log in - I've directed them to this page. ~ [[User:Alarra|Alarra]] ([[User_talk:Alarra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alarra|contribs]]) 21:58, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

== Username change request (Count Reman IV) ==

Good evening. Could I have my username changed to "Reman IV Nibenius" if possible? Thank you very much! - [[User:Count Reman IV|Count Reman IV]] [[User_talk:Count Reman IV|(talk)]] 23:30, 03 April 2025 (UTC)

: Done! —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 08:40, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

:: It appears that because your name was initially [[User:Count Reman IV & V of Cyrodiil]], and this is your second name change, some redirect targets will have to be updated to avoid [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Double redirects|double redirects]]. I've fixed a few I spotted already, but just wanted to let you know as there might be more. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 08:50, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

== Request for Adminship: The Rim of the Sky ==

:''Our Request for Adminship (RfA) process is based on [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship|Wikipedia]]'s policy. An editor, when nominated, accepts and answers questions, which can be asked by any registered editor. Votes and comments can also be left by any registered editor. [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] makes the call, based upon the community's consensus, after about a week.''

{{Consensus|Support|2=Unanimous support. Moved to [[User:The Rim of the Sky/RfA]] upon completion of nomination. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]&ensp;[[User talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:06, 14 April 2025 (UTC)}}

== Username change request (Discranola) ==

If it's possible, could I have my username changed to MetalGearSurvive? Unless having my name literally just being the name of a video game would cause potential issues. I can try to think of something else if that's the case. Thank you! -- [[User:Discranola|Discranola]] ([[User talk:Discranola|talk]]) 11:58, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hi there, I went ahead and renamed you. There are no rules against sharing a name with a video game, especially one that is non-TES related, so you should be fine. Let me know if there's anything else I can do! [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 20:56, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

== So I'm trying to fix a "Titles" header in [[Lore:Redguard Names#Skyrim]]... ==

...because it is simply formatted incorrectly.

And when trying to submit the edit, I get a warning: 
"Error: This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Chanel Filter".

No idea what this means. All I want to do is to make a very small alteration, replacing an asterisk with 8 equal signs (=).

Here is the code for the entire section I want to submit: 
<code><nowiki> ===Skyrim===</nowiki></code>
<code><nowiki>{{SurnameList|ns_base=Skyrim|Lu'ah Al-Skaven|[[Skyrim:Azzada Lylvieve|Lylvieve]]*|[[Skyrim:Baral Sendu|Sendu]]{{intnote|dark}}}}</nowiki></code>

<code><nowiki><nowiki>*</nowiki> ''This surname was taken from a Breton wife.'' </nowiki></code>

<code><nowiki>{{Note|dark||''This name fits the construction of a [[Lore:Dunmer Names|Dunmer name]] more so than Redguard. Whether this was a mistake or whether they were intended to have some back-story for this uncharacteristic name is impossible to guess, but the former is more likely given how inconsequential this character is in the game.}}</nowiki></code>

<code><nowiki>==== Titles ====</nowiki></code>
<code><nowiki>[[Skyrim:Majid the Mad|the Mad]]</nowiki></code>

I would appreciate if anyone'd help with this, thanks.
[[Special:Contributions/83.9.113.68|83.9.113.68]] 18:01, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

== How to rename wiki page ==
Is there a way to rename a ESO npc page? This is regarding with [[Online:Priest Haduras|Priest Haduras]], his current updated name should be Moon-Priest Haduras.
[[User:Raren|Raren]]
([[User talk:Raren|talk]]) 17:55, 27 April 2025 (ET)
:Yes, it's the "move page" option.[[User:Eve|—Eve]] ([[User talk:Eve|talk]]) 23:49, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
::I went ahead and moved the page. For Haduras in particular, it seems he was just called "Priest Haduras" at launch (Update 22) and then renamed to "Moon-Priest Haduras" in Update 23 for consistency with the rest of the priests. A bot auto-created the page "Moon-Priest Haduras" after the rename as a separate article, so it did not seem possible to move the page without first deleting the bot-generated article. I've gone ahead and moved "ON:Priest Haduras" overtop of "ON:Moon-Priest Haduras" so I think the issue should be fixed. [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 00:59, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

== Request for Cartographer ==

I was patrolling the maps talk page and would like to make a correction that was requested for a broken Morrowind map link. [[User:Thuraya Salaris|Thuraya Salaris]] ([[User talk:Thuraya Salaris|talk]]) 04:27, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

:Done --[[User:Ilaro|Ilaro]] ([[User talk:Ilaro|talk]]) 10:08, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

==Stepping back from the UESP - request for change to "inactive" patroller==
Hey, all - with our first child on the way and other personal interests taking up my increasingly limited free time, I'll need to step back from the wiki for at least the foreseeable future. I may come back for another burst of editing/reviewing at some point, but for now, I think I should be listed as an "inactive" patroller. I didn't think it was right to just make the change myself at [[UESPWiki:Patrollers#Current Patrollers]], but if I should, please let me know. Regardless, I wanted to take the opportunity to thank all the admins, fellow patrollers, and frequent contributors from whom I've learned a lot over the years, and to express appreciation for this community. Cheers! --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 20:14, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{User:Jeancey/Ah}} You could have done it yourself without issue but I've gonna ahead and made the change :) Congratulations on the kiddo! [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 20:16, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:{{Edit Conflict}} Hey Mike, just wanted to say thank you for all your help during your time here, you've been a great contributor for the wiki and we really appreciate all you've done. We've gone ahead and moved you to inactive, however you are more than welcome to set your own activity status (in fact it is usually preferred, we usually only adjust activity status of others if its found that they're not willing to do it themselves). If you do decide to come back one day when you have more free time, we'd all be more than happy to see you again. Congrats on the kid, and good luck with your future endeavors! :) [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 20:19, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
::Just to chip in and add to what's been said above... Mike, it's been an absolute pleasure to edit together and thank you so much for all your contributions :) Best of luck for your exciting new chapter! --[[User:SerCenKing|SerCenKing]] ([[User talk:SerCenKing|talk]]) 21:00, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Thanks so much, everyone!! The feeling's mutual. Happy editing, and take care! --[[User:Mikeprichard|Mikeprichard]] ([[User talk:Mikeprichard|talk]]) 12:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

== Username Change Request (Fueranel) ==

Hello! Returning user from some years back, and I was hoping to have my username updated to one of which I go by on all platforms now. It's in fact one I used previously on this account, as going to it redirects to the name this account currently has. If I could have my username reverted to 'Kaebus', that would be teriffic! Thank you. --[[User:Fueranel|Fueranel]] ([[User talk:Fueranel|talk]]) 06:26, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Since your original username already existed as a redirect I deleted it and manually moved your userpage to the original name as well, so it should all be taken care of now [[User:The Rim of the Sky|The Rim of the Sky]] ([[User talk:The Rim of the Sky|talk]]) 07:22, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::Wonderful! All looks perfect. Thank you for your assistance, happy to be back! --[[User:Kaebus|Kaebus]] ([[User talk:Kaebus|talk]]) 07:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

== Request for Page Mover ==

I've been fixing a typo and, in the process, I moved four pages, updated other pages to link to the correct pages instead of the resulting redirects, then proposed the now-orphaned redirects for deletion [[Special:Diff/3383636|1]] [[Special:Diff/3383637|2]] [[Special:Diff/3383638|3]] [[Special:Diff/3383639|4]]. Only several minutes later did I remember the recently rolled-out role of Page Mover.

Although I do not foresee myself frequently making similar page moves, I believe it will be a useful tool for when I do. It would also be convenient for administrators if we could skip the whole speedy deletion process for cleanup. Rest assured, I am always diligent in ensuring my moves will not result in redlinks in other pages.

Thus, I would like to request for the Page Mover role, if I qualify. — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 19:12, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

: Page Mover requests belong on [[UESPWiki:Role Requests]] but I've gone ahead and granted this. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:00, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

:: Noted, thanks! — [[User:Salamangkero|Salamangkero]] ([[User_talk:Salamangkero|talk]]) 18:35, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

== UESP Upgraded to 1.32 ==

Uesp has been upgraded to 1.32. Please let me know either here or on the discord if you encounter any issues. [[User:Eckserah|Eckserah]] ([[User talk:Eckserah|talk]]) 19:30, 16 September 2025 (UTC)

== Blocked User ==

Blocked a user for six hours for [https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Tarponpet&curid=354691&action=history repeatedly making inappropriate edits] to another user's user page, despite being [[User talk:Ronnoc77|asked/warned multiple times]] to stop by multiple editors: [[Special:Contributions/Ronnoc77|Ronnoc77]]. The last edit included intimidating behaviour toward the other editor. An admin can review the edits and decide if the block should be extended. This was noted/discussed at length in the Discord's Patrolling channel as well. — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 09:27, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

: Extended. —⁠[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:41, 20 January 2026 (UTC)
::Please also see [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ronnoc7777 new user], blocked in association with previous. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 10:24, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

User talk:Ronnoc7777

2026-01-20T10:23:14Z

Kiz: /* Blocked */ new section

== Blocked ==

{{Blocked|1=This account has been temporarily '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing UESPWiki for suspectedly trying to circumvent a previous account block. If you wish to [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks|appeal the block]], you may make your request on your talk page, which you can still edit even while being blocked. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 10:23, 20 January 2026 (UTC)}}

User:Wolfborn

2026-01-20T10:21:33Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3487530 by Ronnoc7777 (talk)

{{NPC Summary
|town=Somewhere in the mountains...
|loc=In my Den
|race=Canis
|class=Lupus
|level=35
|gender=Male
|health=Excellent
|magicka=Definitely
|stamina=Infinite
|moral=Yes
|aggress=Minimal
|essential=Obviously
|faction=Beer & Ale Drinkers Guild; Oenophiles Society
|marry=Please
|ns_base=Skyrim
}}
Welcome to Wolfborn's Den. Feel free to browse the pathetically small amount of rather useless information on this page for as long as you like. 
{| class="hiddentable"
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2018|month=1|day=20}}||{{User EditsPerDay|year=2018|month=1|day=20}}
|-
|{{User Patroller}}||{{User Blocker}}
|-
|{{User Canadian|white|white|red|text=This user is a Canadian}}||{{User WikiGnome}}
|-
|{{User Morrowind|text=This user hasn't played [[Morrowind:Morrowind|Morrowind]] since 2020.}}
|{{User Morrowind Mod|text=This user knows his way around the [[Morrowind:Construction Set|Morrowind Construction Set]].}}
|-
|{{User Oblivion|text=This user's main character has clocked 1500 hours in [[Oblivion:Oblivion|Oblivion]].}}
|{{User Oblivion Mod|text=This user knows his way around the [[Oblivion Mod:Construction Set|Oblivion Construction Set]].}}
|-
|{{User Skyrim|text=This user is currently playing [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]] [[Skyrim:Special Edition|Special Editon]].}}
|{{Userbox|id-c=gainsboro|info-c=#BBB|border-c=#000|id=[[File:User-Wolfborn-icon-NoCK.png|45x45px]]|border-s=1|info=This user can't use the [[Skyrim Mod:Creation Kit|Skyrim Creation Kit]] because it's not available for the GOG version of the game.|info-fc=Black}}

|}
{{NewLine}}

==Status==
*Probably monitoring [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes]] five hours past my bedtime.
*I also really need to reformat this page one day...

==Quick Links==
[[User:Wolfborn/ToDoList|To Do List]] - For when I have the time... 
[[User:Wolfborn/Templates|Handy Reference]] - Because I always forget how these things work 
[[User:Wolfborn/Sandbox 02|Sandbox 02]] - Fun with boxes!

==Favorite Images==
<gallery mode=traditional heights=150px>
File:SR-quest-A Blade in the Dark.jpg
File:SR-creature-Bats 02.jpg
File:User-Wolfborn-SR-place-Lake Ilinalta.jpg
File:SR-place-River Hjaal.jpg
File:SR-place-Lake Honrich.jpg
File:ON-place-Tigonus.jpg
File:ON-place-Tigonus 03.jpg
File:ON-concept-08.jpg
File:User-Wolfborn-ON-place-Baandari Camp at Dusk.jpg
File:User-Wolfborn-ON-place-Abah's Landing.jpeg
File:ON-place-Red Mountain 03.jpg
File:ON-place-Broken Coast Dolmen.jpg
</gallery>

User:Tarponpet

2026-01-20T08:56:50Z

Kiz: Revert to last version by Tarponpet

[[File:User-tarponpet-Brangus Glee.jpg|thumb|right|Me rn]]
[[File:User-tarponpet-Bog Dog.jpeg| My [[Lore:Bog Dog|dog]], she don't bite ([https://x.com/XxGG_sexualxX/status/1957657505812668444 artist])|thumb|left]]
You can call me Tarp. Have practically memorized the [[Lore:Bestiary|Bestiary]][[User:Tarponpet/Secret|.]]
Spend most of my time there and most other pages related to Fauna. Regularly patrol them and look for ways they can be improved. Also make sure to keep an eye on the Creation Club stuff, though haven't been able to contribute much there.

Recently started working on [[General:Obscure Fauna|Obscure Fauna]] if you spot any unidentified or really obscure UOL creatures make sure to add them or let me know on Discord if you aren't sure what to do with the information.

If there is anything you wanna know about specific creatures or more obscure beast races don't be afraid to ask me on Discord as well.

You can find my fanfic writings [[User:Tarponpet/Verney Notte|here]].
{{NewLeft}}{{TOCright}}

==Pages I've made or done a lot of work on==
===[[Lore:Races|Races]] and [[Lore:Bestiary|Bestiary]]===
{{People Table|
{{People|title=Classifications|[[Lore:Arthropod|Arthropod]]||[[Lore:Ash Creature|Ash Creature]]||[[Lore:Daedra|Daedra]]||[[Lore:Bird|Bird]]||[[Lore:Reptile|Reptile]]||[[Lore:Mollusk|Mollusk]]||[[Lore:Mammal|Mammal]]||
[[Lore:Nix Creature|Nix Creature]]||[[Lore:Echinoid|Echinoid]]||[[Lore:Monster Children|Monster Children]]||[[Lore:Nature Spirit|Nature Spirit]]||[[Lore:Golem|Golem]]||[[Lore:Fish|Fish]]}}
|
{{People|title=Races and Species|[[Lore:Troll|Troll]]||[[Lore:Alit|Alit]]||[[Lore:Ascended Sleeper|Ascended Sleeper]]||[[Lore:Boar|Boar]]||[[Lore:Bog Dog|Bog Dog]]||[[Lore:Brekka|Brekka]]||[[Lore:Crocodile|Crocodile]]||[[Lore:Death Hopper|Death Hopper]]||[[Lore:Fire Daedra|Fire Daedra]]||[[Lore:Frost Daedra|Frost Daedra]]||[[Lore:Guardian Spirit|Guardian Spirit]]||[[Lore:Hob|Hob]]||[[Lore:Leaper|Leaper]]||[[Lore:Lizard Man|Lizard Man]]||[[Lore:Mantikora|Mantikora]]||[[Lore:Newt|Newt]]||[[Lore:Grahl|Grahl]]||[[Lore:Gremlin|Gremlin]]||[[Lore:Goblin|Goblin]]||[[Lore:Mihuitleel|Mihuitleel]]||[[Lore:Nix-Hound|Nix-Hound]]||[[Lore:Nymph|Nymph]]||[[Lore:Ogre|Ogre]]||[[Lore:Scaleborn|Scaleborn]]||[[Lore:Scorpion|Scorpion]]||[[Lore:Silt Strider|Silt Strider]]||[[Lore:Scamp|Scamp]]||[[Lore:Scarab|Scarab]]||[[Lore:Spider|Spider]]||[[Lore:Tharriker|Tharriker]]||[[Lore:Dragon|Dragon]]||[[Lore:Lurcher|Lurcher]]||[[Lore:Vahath Behemoth|Vahath Behemoth]]||[[Lore:Vulk'esh|Vulk'esh]]||[[Lore:Vvardvark|Vvardvark]]||[[Lore:Worm|Worm]]}}
|
{{People|title=Unique|[[Lore:Palla (creature)|Palla]]||[[Lore:Udyrfrykte|Udyrfrykte]]||}}
{{People|title=Others|[[Lore:Familiar|Familiar]]}}
{{People|title=General Pages|[[General:Obscure Creatures|Obscure Creatures]]}}
}}

===People===
{{People Table|
{{People|title=Daedra|[[Lore:Kh-Utta|Kh-Utta]]}}
{{People|title=Nord|[[Lore:Sivdur|Sivdur]]}}
{{People|title=Orc|[[Lore:Morga|Morga]]}}
{{People|title=Falmer|[[Lore:Pale Fingers|Pale Fingers]]}}
{{People|title=Argonian|[[Lore:Swims-In-Deep-Water|Swims-In-Deep-Water]]}}
{{People|title=Khajiit|[[Lore:M'aiq the Liar|M'aiq the Liar]]}}
{{People|title=Goblin|[[Lore:Gogh|Gogh]]}}
{{People|title=Ogre|[[Lore:Urkazbur|Urkazbur]]}}
{{People|title=Unknown|[[Lore:Solis Aduro|Solis Aduro]]}}
|
}}

===Factions===
{{People Table|
{{People|title=Factions|[[Lore:Goblin Tribes|Goblin Tribes]]||[[Lore:Satakals|Satakals]]||[[Lore:Sunnatren|Sunnatren]]||[[Lore:Vigil of Stendarr|Vigil of Stendarr]]}}
}}

===Other===
{{People Table|
{{People|title=Symbols|[[Lore:Cross|Cross]]||[[Lore:Third Eye|Third Eye]]}}
{{People|title=Places|[[Lore:Black Forest|Black Forest]]||[[Lore:The Chill|The Chill]]}}
{{People|title=Texts|[[Lore:Anuad|Anuad]]}}
{{People|title=Magic and History|[[Lore:Goblin Gate|Goblin Gate]]||[[Lore:Mythopoeia|Mythopoeia]]}}
{{People|title=Culture|[[Lore:Sex|Sex]]||[[Lore:Daedra Names|Daedra Names]]}}
{{People|title=General Pages|[[General:Skyrim Mash-up/Texture Pack|Skyrim Mash-up/Texture Pack]]}}
}}

==Sandboxes==
[[File:User-tarponpet-Elder Trolls.jpg|right|thumb|My team of editors]]
My Sandboxes:

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox|Creature Classification/Taxonomy]]: Mostly Headcanon

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox2|Creature Habitats]]: Meant to be completely verifiable

[[User:Tarponpet/Verney Notte]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox4]]
[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox3]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox5]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox6]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox7]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox8]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox9]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox10]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox11 (real one)]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox12]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox13]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox14]]

[[User:Tarponpet/Sandbox15]]

To do:
*[[Lore:Scaleborn]]
*[[Lore:Nixad]]
*Better Fauna sections on location articles

==Userboxes==
{{User Male}}
{{Userbox
|id-c={{{id-c|{{{1|#DDCCAA}}}}}}
|info-c={{{info-c|{{{2|#EEEEFF}}}}}}
|id=[[File:SR-icon-Pets of Skyrim.jpg|45x45px]]
|info={{{text|This user is very knowledge about about the [[Lore:Bestiary|creatures]] of TES.}}}
|info-fc={{{info-fc|{{{3|Black}}}}}}}}
{{User Patroller}}
{{User Discord}}
{{User Race|Sload}}
{{Userbox|#000000|#EEEEFF|[[File:SR-icon-logo.jpg|45x45px]]|This user plays too much [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]].}}
{{Userbox|#000000|#EEEEFF|[[File:ON-icon-logo.jpg|45x45px]]|This user wastes too much gold in [[Online:Online|ESO]].}}
{{User Creation Club}}
{{Userbox|#000000|#EEEEFF|[[File:User-Jimeee-Free-Brand-Shei.jpg|45x45px]]|This user deeply regrets [[Skyrim:A Chance Arrangement|incriminating]] [[Skyrim:Brand-Shei|Brand-Shei]] and wants him released.}}
{{User Metundus}}
{{Userbox|#000000|#EEEEFF|[[File:SR-icon-Goblins.png|45x45px]]|This user is a [[Lore:Goblin|Goblin]] rights activist.}}
{{Userbox|#000000|#EEEEFF|[[File:BT-misc-Outer Watch.png|45x45px]]|This user is a member of the Outer Watch.}}
{{Userbox|#000000|#EEEEFF|[[File:User-tarponpet-JW.png|45x45px]]|This user is one of Jehovah's Witnesses.}}
{{User EditsPerDay|year=2021|month=6|day=3}}

User talk:Ronnoc77

2026-01-20T08:55:07Z

Kiz: /* Userpages */ new section

== Welcome! ==

<div class="plainlinks">Hello Ronnoc77! Welcome to UESPWiki! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

* '''[[Help:Quick Editing Guide|Quick Editing Guide]]''': a quick guide to wiki markup
* '''[[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]]''': how you can help
* '''[[Help:Contents|Help Contents]]''': a list of in-depth Help pages
* '''[[UESPWiki:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]''': UESPWiki standards and expectations
* '''[[Help:Images|Uploading Images]]''': guidelines on image standardization

If you would like to spice up your [[Special:Mypage|user page]], browse a '''[[UESPWiki:Userboxes|list of userboxes]]''' you can use, including a guide to making your own.

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave [[Help:Edit Summary|edit summaries]] to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Also, the "[[Help:Show Preview|show preview]]" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|patrollers]] really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you would like to discuss the games or lore, consider checking out our [[UESPWiki:Discord|Discord]], [[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]], or [https://blog.uesp.net/index.php blog]. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]]. Lastly, thanks once again for joining the UESPWiki, and have fun! [[User:Hagrin Frost-Eye|Hagrin Frost-Eye]] ([[User talk:Hagrin Frost-Eye|talk]]) 16:00, 19 January 2026 (UTC)</div>

== Warning ==

{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this user account will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 08:00, 20 January 2026 (UTC)}}

Further to this: If you wish to contact another editor, please do so by leaving a message on their talk page. Do not edit another editor's user page without their permission. — [[User:Wolfborn|Wolfborn]][[User_Talk:Wolfborn|(Howl)]] 08:28, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

== Userpages ==

Editing other users userpages is not an appropriate way of disagreeing with other users, if you disagree with an edit somebody has made, or a reversion to one of your edits, please take this up on either the articles talkpage, or the other users talkpage. '''[[User:Kiz|Kiz]]''' [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 08:55, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

Template:NPC Summary/styles.css

2025-10-07T07:06:06Z

Kiz: + vahath behemoth

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Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow (place)

2025-07-29T00:15:29Z

Kiz: Undo revision 3397748 by 2600:387:1:811:0:0:0:76 (talk) Not quite

{{Cleanup-obrp-place
|writtenBy=
|checkedBy=
|interior=
|interiorChecked=
|exterior=
|exteriorChecked=
}}{{Mod Header|Vile Lair}}{{Place Summary
|mod=[[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]]
|type=Cave
|locationcode=LairVile01, LairVile02, LairVile03, LairVile04
|location=Southeast of [[Oblivion:Leyawiin|Leyawiin]]
|Image=OB-quest-Deepscorn Hollow (quest).jpg
|imgremaster=OBR-place-Deepscorn Hollow.jpg
|ImgDesc=Deepscorn Hollow
|region=Blackwood
|description=An [[Oblivion:Caves|underground lair]] southeast of [[Oblivion:Leyawiin|Leyawiin]] catered to infamous characters ([[Oblivion:Vile Lair|download-specific]]).
|marker_id=Settlement
}} [[Category:Oblivion-Places-Houses]]
The Hollow becomes your property after the Deepscorn Hollow [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow (quest)|quest]] is completed. It is added by the ''[[Oblivion:Vile Lair|Vile Lair]]'' [[Oblivion:Downloads|official download]].

The house has four zones: ''Deepscorn Hollow'', ''Deepscorn Cloister'', ''Deepscorn Bastion'', and ''Deepscorn Shrine''.
{{NewLeft}}
==Upgrades==
The following upgrades may be purchased from [[Oblivion:Rowley Eardwulf|Rowley Eardwulf]] at the [[Oblivion:Wawnet Inn|Wawnet Inn]].

More details are available on the [[Oblivion:Houses#Deepscorn Hollow|Oblivion Houses]] page.

'''Note:''' Rowley Eardwulf may not have the upgrades available when he is supposed to. See [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow (quest)#Bugs|Bugs]].

{{NewRight}}
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow.jpg|thumb|Coffin Bed, ideal for [[Oblivion:Vampirism|Vampires]]]]
===[[Oblivion:Deepscorn Bedroom Area|Bedroom Area]]===
*'''Base Cost''': 1750
*'''Description''': A desk with various ingredients and a coffin bed.
Once you purchase the Bedroom Area upgrade, a desk will be added to a corner of the bedroom with a set of novice-level alchemy equipment and a few ingredients, most notably a harvested [[Oblivion:Nirnroot|Nirnroot]] sample which respawns every three days. This is the only respawning sample of Nirnroot in the game, providing a slow but steady method of gathering Nirnroot for the [[Oblivion:Seeking Your Roots|Seeking Your Roots]] quest.

{{NewRight}}
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 02.jpg|thumb|The Cattle Cell - meals on demand]]
===[[Oblivion:Deepscorn Cattle Cell|Cattle Cell]]===
*'''Base Cost''': 1750
*'''Description''': A prison cell with an [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Prisoner|unwakable captive]] for vampires to feed on at any time.
The Cattle Cell upgrade adds a prison cell with a perpetually sleeping prisoner for vampires to feed on at any time. He is marked as an essential NPC, so he cannot die. Because he is essential, the prisoner can also be used as a [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills#General Combat Strategies|method for training]] various skills, including [[Oblivion:Blade|Blade]], [[Oblivion:Sneak|Sneak]], and [[Oblivion:Destruction|Destruction]].

{{NewRight}}
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 03.jpg|thumb|The Minion in his room]]
===[[Oblivion:Deepscorn Dark Minion|Dark Minion]]===
*'''Base Cost''': 1750
*'''Description''': A [[Oblivion:Dark Minion|vampire minion]] who can be sent out to murder, bringing back the victim's items for you and adding one infamy point.
Once you buy the Dark Minion upgrade, a [[Oblivion:Dark Minion|Dark Minion]] will appear in your lair. He can be commanded at any time to kill in the name of Sithis. If you do, he will disappear and return at midnight two days later. You will only be notified of his return if you are in Deepscorn Hollow, at which point you will be informed whether or not he succeeded (see [[#Bugs|Bugs]] if he does not reappear). He always has a 25% chance of failure. If he succeeds:
:* You will receive one [[Oblivion:Infamy|infamy]] point.
:* Random loot is added to the '''Victim's Loot Chest''' (leveled gold, 25% chance jewelry, 10% magic armor, 10% magic weapon, 25% unenchanted weapon, 10% soul gem, 25% lockpick, 25% potion, 25% poison). This chest is safe, so the loot can be left to accumulate.

{{NewRight}}
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 04.jpg|thumb|A more conventional dining area]]

===[[Oblivion:Deepscorn Dining Area|Dining Area]]===
*'''Base Cost''': 1750
*'''Description''': A table with various foods, several cupboards, and improved lighting.

{{NewRight}}
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 05.jpg|thumb|The Garden of Venomgrowth]]
===[[Oblivion:Deepscorn Garden Receipt|Garden of Venomgrowth]]===
*'''Base Cost''': 1750
*'''Description''': A garden which contains strong poisonous ingredients, including the new Chokeberry Vine.
The Garden of Venomgrowth upgrade adds an indoor garden to the main hall. The garden includes:
:* 3 [[Oblivion:Chokeberry|Chokeberry Vines]]
:* 5 [[Oblivion:Elf Cup Cap|Elf Cup Caps]]
:* 4 [[Oblivion:Fennel Seeds|Fennel Plants]]
:* 6 [[Oblivion:Ginseng|Ginseng Plants]]
:* 5 [[Oblivion:Milk Thistle Seeds|Milk Thistle Plants]]
:* 2 [[Oblivion:Morning Glory Root Pulp|Morning Glory Vines]]
:* 6 [[Oblivion:Nightshade|Nightshade Plants]]
:* 10 [[Oblivion:Stinkhorn Cap|Stinkhorn Caps]]
:* 5 [[Oblivion:Wisp Stalk Caps|Wisp Stalk Caps]]

{{NewRight}}
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 06.jpg|thumb|The Storage Area]]
===[[Oblivion:Deepscorn Storage Area|Storage Area]]===
*'''Base Cost''': 1750
*'''Description''': Adds various chests and crates for safe storage.
The Storage Area upgrade adds a number of storage chests to the nook located just off the main garden. This upgrade also includes Greywyn's Poison Supply, a chest containing several poisons.

{{NewRight}}
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 07.jpg|thumb|Study Area]]
===[[Oblivion:Deepscorn Study Area|Study Area]]===
*'''Base Cost''': 1750
*'''Description''': A desk and bookshelves with several rare or unique books.
The Study Area upgrade provides two new books: the ''[[Oblivion:Manifesto Cyrodiil Vampyrum|Manifesto Cyrodiil Vampyrum]]'' and ''[[Oblivion:Opusculus Lamae Bal ta Mezzamortie|Opusculus Lamae Bal ta Mezzamortie]]''. The study also includes five [[Oblivion:Skill Books|skill books]], some of which are unique: ''[[Oblivion:Sithis|Sithis]]'' ([[Oblivion:Alteration|Alteration]]), ''[[Oblivion:Immortal Blood|Immortal Blood]]'' ([[Oblivion:Hand to Hand|Hand to Hand]]), ''[[Lore:Rislav The Righteous|Rislav the Righteous]]'' ([[Oblivion:Light Armor|Light Armor]]), ''[[Oblivion:The Gold Ribbon of Merit|The Gold Ribbon of Merit]]'' ([[Oblivion:Marksman|Marksman]]), and ''[[Oblivion:Sacred Witness|Sacred Witness]]'' ([[Oblivion:Sneak|Sneak]]).

==={{Anchor|Ichor of Sithis|Shrine of Sithis|Ichor Basin|Deepscorn Shrine}}===
{{Remaster Tab|thumb=right|original=[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 08.jpg|thumb|The shrine to Sithis]]|remaster=[[File:OBR-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 08.jpg|thumb|The shrine to Sithis]]}}
*'''Base Cost''': 3000
*'''Description''': A potion necessary to activate the '''Ichor Basin''' in '''Deepscorn Shrine'''.
The [[Oblivion:Ichor of Sithis|Ichor of Sithis]] is needed to restore the Shrine of Sithis, which is just like the [[Oblivion:Nine Divines|chapel shrines]] that confer blessings. Unlike chapel shrines, however, the Shrine of Sithis only provides blessings if your infamy is higher than your fame.
:*6 non-respawning [[Oblivion:Nightshade|Nightshade flowers]] float above the water at the base of the shrine.
:*The shrine requires that your Infamy must exceed your Fame. Characters with a higher (or equal) fame will be prompted to ''"Recant your honorable nature and you shall be rewarded!"''
:*Much like chapel altars, you may only use the Shrine once per day.
:*The blessing you receive depends on your level of infamy:
:**If you have completed the Thieves Guild questline and have the [[Oblivion:Gray Cowl of Nocturnal|Gray Cowl of Nocturnal]], donning the cowl will give you instant infamy of 100, allowing the highest level of blessing.
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Infamy !! Blessing !! Effects !! Duration
|-
|1-20 || Call of Sithis || [[Oblivion:Restore Attribute|Restore All Attributes]] 100pts, [[Oblivion:Restore Health|Restore Health]] 200pts, [[Oblivion:Cure Disease|Cure Disease]], [[Oblivion:Fortify Health|Fortify Health]] 10pts || 900 secs
|-
|21-50 || Scream of Sithis || Restore All Attributes 100pts, Restore Health 200pts, Cure Disease, Fortify Health 15pts, [[Oblivion:Fortify Agility|Fortify Agility]] 2pts, [[Oblivion:Fortify Skill|Fortify Sneak]] 5pts || 900 secs
|-
|51-90 || Lament of Sithis || Restore All Attributes 100pts, Restore Health 200pts, Cure Disease, Fortify Health 20pts, Fortify Agility 5pts, Fortify Sneak 10pts || 1000 secs
|-
|90+ || Death Knell of Sithis || Restore All Attributes 100pts, Restore Health 200pts, Cure Disease, Fortify Health 25pts, Fortify Agility 10pts, Fortify Sneak 20pts, [[Oblivion:Chameleon|Chameleon]] 50% ||style="white-space:nowrap"| 1200 secs
|}

==Features==
===Font of Renewal===
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 09.jpg|thumb|Font of Renewal]]
The Font of Renewal is a pool of water that houses a shrine where you may purge yourself of Vampirism using the new [[Oblivion:Purgeblood Salts|Purgeblood Salts]] mined from the nearby [[Oblivion:Purgeblood Crystal Formation|Purgeblood Crystal Formations]]. No upgrades are necessary to use this font.

If you use the Font of Renewal, you will not be able to complete [[Oblivion:Vampire Cure|Vampire Cure]] as you must actually be a vampire when doing the quest. As a result, if you start the Vampire Cure quest and then cure yourself using the Font of Renewal you will be unable to continue the quest and it will remain in your journal forever.
{{NewLine}}

==Hard to Find Items==
[[File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow Greywyn's Armoire.jpg|thumb|right|Greywyn's Armoire]]
Scattered around Deepscorn are Greywyn's Jewelry Caches containing a large amount of leveled miscellaneous jewelry, gems and gold. These are available as soon as you enter Deepscorn Hollow (no upgrades need to be purchased)
* '''Greywyn's First Cache''' is located in the upper-left corner of the first room you enter directly behind a stalagmite on your left (when passing straight through the gardens).
* '''Greywyn's Second Cache''' rests beside the Font of Renewal under the water.
* '''Greywyn's Third Cache''' is located in the corner of the Cattle Cage that holds the feeding body near the Cell Door. Enter the cell and look left, behind the food basket. (If you have not yet purchased the Cattle Cage upgrade, this location is in the cave-like room on the west side of ''Deepscorn Cloister'', hidden against the wall south of the entryway).
* '''Greywyn's Final Cache''' is in the basin where the fountain water hits on the left side of the Shrine to Sithis area. This one cache will contain a random, leveled enchanted ring or necklace.

High above the first room (where the Garden of Venomgrowth is eventually placed) there is a bucket filled with gold. If you shoot it, the gold will fall to the ground. This is mostly for the novelty value of seeing all the gold come out, because you will have to pick each piece up individually.
*Any gold you do not pick up will respawn in the bucket after three days, meaning you can shoot it again and again and pick up any hard-to-find coins.

Located on top of the Shrine to Sithis is an "Unusual Box" that contains yet another unique leveled item, the '''[[Oblivion:Crimson Eviscerator|Crimson Eviscerator]]'''. This box, and the dagger, are present when you first enter Deepscorn Hollow.

Immediately to your left when entering Deepscorn Hollow is the storage area. Once you purchase the Storage Area upgrade, you will find '''Greywyn's Poison Supply''' hidden in the back of this room. This is a chest filled initially with a dozen or more poisons of various useful varieties.
* This chest can also be used as a storage container. For example, using the ingredients from the nearby Garden of Venomgrowth you can make quite powerful poisons even at low [[Oblivion:Alchemy|Alchemy]] levels. This chest is a good place to store your most wicked concoctions separate from your healthier ones.
* There are three scattered jewelry boxes that contain some jewelry (possibly enchanted) and possibly some potions.

Once you purchase all the upgrades for Deepscorn Hollow you are rewarded with a special item. The Deepscorn Bedroom gets a special piece of furniture called '''Greywyn's Armoire''' next to the Coffin Bed.
* Inside you will find the leveled '''[[Oblivion:Raiment of the Crimson Scar|Raiment of the Crimson Scar]]''' which is basically an upgraded version of the [[Oblivion:Dark Brotherhood|Dark Brotherhood]]'s [[Oblivion:Shrouded Armor|Shrouded Armor]].

==New Items==
See [[Oblivion:Deepscorn Hollow Items|Deepscorn Hollow Items]] for a list of items added by the ''Vile Lair'' download.

==Notes==
*The island with the bridge and ruined buildings exists without having ''Vile Lair'' installed; all that is added are the entrances to the lair underneath.
*The trapdoor entrance to Deepscorn Hollow located behind a rock to the west does not appear until you enter from the main underwater entrance.
*Deepscorn Hollow also [[ESO:Deepscorn Hollow|appears]] in [[Online:Online|ESO]].

==Bugs==
{{Bug|The [[Oblivion:Dark Minion|Dark Minion]] might disappear on a mission to kill somebody and never reappear. This may be caused by the Minion's scripting; you need to be near where he left for the scripting to resume processing. If your Minion has disappeared, go to where the trapdoor ladder is and he may return.|UODP|7}}
** {{UORP}}
** Using the <code>player.moveto</code> console command with the ref ID of the Dark Minion may cause him to reappear.
{{Bug|It is possible for the Minion to stop correctly functioning if he gets sent out on a mission repeatedly because of some variables not being reset.|UODP|22}}
** {{UORP}}
{{Bug|If you cast a [[Oblivion:Paralyze|Paralyze]] spell on the cattle in the cell, paralyze him with the master [[Oblivion:Marksman|Marksman]] ability, or achieve a knockdown with either [[Oblivion:Blade|Blade]] or Marksman, he will stand up but will not lay back down again. It is impossible to feed on him while he is standing up, and you still cannot talk to him.|UODP|7}}
** {{UORP}}
{{Bug|The trap door exit in Deepscorn Cloister cannot be used by NPCs to exit Deepscorn Hollow (apart from the Dark Minion, whose departure is scripted). If anyone were to enter through the trap door and then proceed to leave, they will attempt to activate the trap door, but will not be able to exit (similar to the Summitmist Manor door glitch, but not as irreversible).|UODP|18}}
** {{UORP}}
** In order to fix this, simply lure the person out through the main entrance.
{{Bug|{{OBR22}} In ''[[Oblivion:Oblivion Remastered|Oblivion Remastered]]'', the Greywyn's Armoire container will constantly reset itself every few seconds. This allows the player to obtain infinite copies of the [[Oblivion:Raiment of the Crimson Scar|Raiment of the Crimson Scar]]. This also deletes any other object within the container, making it unsafe for storage.|UORP|1.0.8|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|{{OBR22}} In ''Oblivion Remastered'', the Ichor Basin will not visibly fill with blood once activated. This is just a visual issue; the shrine will work as expected even with the empty basin.}}

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:OB-place-Deepscorn Hollow 02.jpg|The island
File:OB-place-Deepscorn Hollow 03.jpg|The island
File:OB-place-Deepscorn Hollow.jpg|The underwater entrance
File:OB-place-Deepscorn Hollow 04.jpg|The trapdoor entrance
File:OB-interior-Deepscorn Hollow 10.jpg|The alchemy lab
File:OBR-place-A Gate to Oblivion (Deepscorn Hollow).jpg|The nearby Gate to Oblivion, open
File:OB-place-A Gate to Oblivion (Deepscorn Hollow).jpg|The nearby Gate to Oblivion, closed
</gallery>

{{Oblivion Settlements}}