UESPWiki - User Contributions [en]

User talk:Kimi the Elf

2013-10-13T21:06:29Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Icon images */ reply

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{| style="border: 1px solid magenta; background: Black; width: 20%;"
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| style="border: 1px solid magenta;" align="center" | [[User talk:Kimi the Elf/Archives|Archives]] || style="border: 1px solid magenta;" align="center" | [[User talk:Kimi the Elf/Rewards|Rewards]]
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== Thank You ==

Thanks for {{Pl|Skyrim:Vyrthur|diff=1007728&oldid=1007726|this fix}}. I was caught up in editing the list and didn't clue in that I was restoring an undesirable redirect. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 19:54, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

:Its okies, an easy mistake to make! ^_^ [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 20:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

== Thanks! ==

For that shot of Serana and Vyrthur. When that scene ran for me my character was between them giving me a very weird perspective and unsure just what the heck was going on. {{uns2|20:11, 5 September 2012‎|Sniffles}}

== Image resolution ==

Hi, my images seem to get tagged a lot for proper image resolution. How do I convert it to 4:3 size. My screen resolution is 1920 x 1080, so I don't know how to convert it to the 4:3 size without it ending up a very small image. Any image editing advice you can give me? — [[User:Kunvulonin|Kunvulonin]][[User_talk:Kunvulonin|Künvülänin]] 01:01, 14 September 2012 (GMT)

:If you're on Windows (odds are yes), you can just open up Paint, set the canvas size to 1440x1080, copy the picture (by right-clicking on it), and then paste it into Paint, moving it around as you wish. (These instructions might be slightly off, because I'm not a Linux user). If you're on a different operating system, then you can use GIMP, which takes slightly longer but is still entirely manageable. Also, make sure that the picture's file format is .jpg. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 01:05, 14 September 2012 (GMT)

::Thanks for the tip! I used Paint. I fixed the issue with the current image that I uploaded. Thanks again. — [[User:Kunvulonin|Kunvulonin]][[User_talk:Kunvulonin|Künvülänin]] 01:16, 14 September 2012 (GMT)

== Gilded Wristguards vs. Nightingale Gloves ==

I noticed you put these icons up on [[Skyrim:Specialty_Gear#Other_Apparel]]. Near as I can tell, the two graphics are identical, except yours is slightly higher resolution. Is there really a visible difference between male and female for this item? Or should one of the two images be deleted? (And which one? I'd say mine probably, because it's smaller.) But I can't see any difference at all between them, and as it is now it implies that they are gender-specific or something. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:20, 4 October 2012 (GMT)

:Not sure why they both look the same for you, the one i added was completely different. For females it just shows the Nightingale Gloves image but for males it shows the correct Gilded Wristguards icon which is gold with circles on it. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 02:24, 4 October 2012 (GMT)

::Ah, caching issue. Hard-refresh fixed it. Carry on. (Never occurred to me to even check anything but the full-body apparel for gender-specific variants. I didn't even think about those until I hit [[:File:SR-icon-armor-GlassArmor(f).png|Glass Armor]] with my female character, which is pretty obvious, and suddenly realized my job had potentially doubled in size... Much more subtle differences with hoods, boots and gloves.) [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:50, 4 October 2012 (GMT)

:::Incidentally, thanks for helping with the [[Skyrim:Clothing|laundry]], I'll take care of the [[Skyrim:Miscellaneous_Items#Dishes_and_Tableware|dishes]] tomorrow. We're also missing books (and book-like items such as reports and notes). And I think that pretty much covers everything, though some could use improvements - the [[:Category:Skyrim-Icons-Ingredients|Ingredient icons]] are all pretty small, for example (also inconsistently named - that might be a bot-job though). And I'm not crazy about the grey background on the [[:Category:Skyrim-Icons-Spells|Spell icons]]. (Reminds me we're also missing Shouts.) Anything else you can think of? [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:36, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

::::The [[Skyrim:Unique Items|Unique Items]] page could do with icons. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 21:38, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

:::::I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure most if not all of those use generic icons, which should already be uploaded. Just a matter of figuring out which ones to use. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 22:28, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

::::::Clearly, I stand corrected. (Forgot about the glow-effect on enchanted items.) Also, a fair number of them have unique appearances. By the definition used in previous games, that would generally make them artifacts, but I don't know if that really works here. Anyhow, weapons (mostly) done, not counting Dawnguard stuff and things that don't appear in inventory. I've got the screenshots for the apparel, at least for my female character (will have to see if anything is different for males) I'll be doing those tomorrow. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 03:26, 7 October 2012 (GMT)

== Skyrim Ingredient Icons ==

I saw you did a couple of them. Were you going to finish doing these? Or do you want me to take over? [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 22:51, 27 October 2012 (GMT)

:I'm not sure when I will get the time to finish them, so if you want to do them you can! ^_^ [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 19:12, 28 October 2012 (GMT)

::Okay. I think you've got a higher screen resolution than me, as I tried using one of yours ([[:File:SR-icon-ingredient-Abecean Longfin.png]]) as a template for all the other fish, but it's too big and doesn't line up. I'm hardware-bound on this one (laptop), so there's not much that can be done about that. Just if I do the icons, they'll be slightly smaller than if you do them. Which I guess is no big deal since it's still much larger than the 48px thumbnails we're using, but I didn't want to do a bunch of work if you were just going to redo them with your own at higher res. (I may still need someone to step in for the plug-in items - or one of these days maybe I'll buy them myself, but can't do those right now.) [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 04:58, 29 October 2012 (GMT)

:::I have done the ingredients plug-in items. I have also done the plug-in icons for the books, most of them used old icons so there is only 2 new icons, I got them to display fine on the individual pages but some of them don't display right on the [[Skyrim:Books|Books]] page? Did I add them wrong? [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 11:48, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

::::I think they're correct. The template is weird in that it doesn't show up right away. You can either wait a while, or you can get them to show up sooner if you first purge all the book pages you added images to and then purge the list page. I just tried on a couple of them, and it fixed them. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:43, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

::::Addendum: If you put the icon on the Lore page for the book, you have to purge the Lore page, then the gamespace page, and then the list page. And sometimes even that doesn't work right away. One reason among many that I switched to putting the icons on the gamespace pages instead of the Lore pages. Not only do the icons show up faster, but it just makes more sense having all game-specific information like icons only on the gamespace pages. The "Book of Life and Services" icon still isn't showing for me on the main page even after the purging ritual, but I'll give it some time and try again later. If that doesn't work, we can just add the icon to the gamespace page. (I'll eventually be removing all icons specified in Lore space, since they don't show up there anyhow and it complicates the loading process so much.) [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:49, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

:::::Alright, waiting all day didn't fix it so I looked into it and the actual problem is that in order for the icon to work from the Lore page, it must have the exact same name as the gamespace page. In this case, [[Lore:Book of Life and Service]] is not the same as [[Skyrim:The Book of Life and Service|Skyrim:'''The''' Book of Life and Service]]. Likewise for [[Lore:Touching the Sky]] and [[Skyrim:Touching the Sky (book)]]. You can get around that using the "Lorepage" parameter, but again, more trouble than it's worth when you can just specify the icon on the gamespace pages instead and not have to worry about any of that. I fixed these two, and if any more ever come up (e.g. in Dragonborn or other future DLCs), just remember to put the icon on the gamespace page, and don't bother with the Lore page. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 01:33, 3 November 2012 (GMT)

== Felsaad Tern Feathers ==

They aren't? According to the CK, the model is Clutter\Ingredients\HawkFeather01.nif, which is the exact same model as Hawk Feathers. What is the model then? If this isn't it? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 03:58, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

:[[:File:SR-icon-ingredient-Hawk Feathers.png|Hawk Feathers]] and [[:File:DB-icon-ingredient-Felsaad Tern Feathers.png|Felsaad Tern Feathers]]. I didnt check the CK but ingame they are different colours. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 04:10, 8 February 2013 (GMT)
::Fascinating... I wonder why the CK is showing the icons as being the same.... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 04:10, 8 February 2013 (GMT)
:::There can be different textures for the same object within the same file, so objects that have the exact same shape, like the feathers, can have different surface appearances. Don't ask me more than that, though...there ends my knowledge of NIF files. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 23:06, 8 February 2013 (GMT)
::::If you click the edit button for the Model in the CK, you will see that the Felsaad Tern Feathers pass a texture set parameter to the nif, to customize them. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 23:10, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

== Cabbage Soup ==

Hey Kimi. Since you seem to be the one making Dragonborn icons, would you mind making one for [[Skyrim:Cabbage Soup|Cabbage Soup]]? I believe it has a new texture. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 02:37, 10 February 2013 (GMT)
:Also, it seems there is no icon for [[Skyrim:Mage Robes|Mage Robes]]. No idea how that got missed :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 02:51, 10 February 2013 (GMT)
::Okies done both of them ^_^ As far as I can see that's all the icons finished but if I missed any just let me know! [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 02:57, 10 February 2013 (GMT)

== Nightmaster Vampire ==

Do you recall how you created [[:File:SR-npc-Nightmaster Vampire.jpg|this image]]? Did you find the vampire, or did you spawn her in? Apparently, female Nightmasters [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Vampire&diff=next&oldid=1120568 aren't encountered] usually. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:25, 10 February 2013 (GMT)

:I think I spawned both the dawnguard vampire images. I did not know nightmaster vampires are only male, I can redo the image later tonight if needed. ^_^ [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 19:42, 10 February 2013 (GMT)

:: Sounds good. Eshe has all the correct IDs up at [[Skyrim:Vampire]]. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 19:45, 10 February 2013 (GMT)

== IRC ==

I know this might not be the right method to suggest this but you should really get back on the IRC :D [[User:Lord Eydvar|Lord Eydvar]] [[User Talk:Lord Eydvar|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lord Eydvar|Contribs]] 08:15, 24 February 2013 (GMT)

== Arrovan ==

Hey Kimi, do you have a reference for [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Lore%3ASkeleton_Key&diff=1166090&oldid=1161734 this edit]? I can't seem to find anything about Arrovan outside of TIL. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:42, 10 April 2013 (GMT)

:''"The <Random Place> had a visitor, a foreign scholar tracing the history of Arrovan, the thief who wielded the Skeleton's Key. Apparently, Arrovan stole some stuff from the royal family here in <Random Place>."''

:''"I don't know if I believe it, but there's a gentleman in <Random Inn> who says he knows how to find the magical key of Arrovan, the master thief. He wants money for the information - a lot of money - but if you'd like to be able to break into anything you might want to head to the <Random Inn> and talk to him."''

:''"Ah, yes, my purse likes the sound of that. You'll find the Skeleton's Key in a particularly unpleasant dungeon. Of course, no one except a few know where it is, for the Key always chooses inaccessible places to hide. For benefit of the historians, the first holder of the Key, Arrovan, made a map to each of the Key's resting places, but for many years no one could find this one. My contacts say the map is in a place called the <Random Dungeon>. I have inscribed the location onto your map of the continent. I must leave you. Good luck, my friend..."''

:It comes from Arena during the quest to find the Skeleton Key. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 18:10, 10 April 2013 (GMT)

:: Thanks. Odd that we don't have that on the wiki. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 18:28, 11 April 2013 (GMT)

== Lore:Altmer names - Arena AND Daggerfall? ==

Hi! If I read the edit history correctly, you're the one who added the random generator from Arena to the Lore:Altmer names page? Thanks for this - but why "and Daggerfall"?? Have you ever managed to encounter a randomly generated Altmer NPC in Daggerfall? I know I haven't in all the years of playing it. Neither does Daggerfall Imaging ( I'd insert a link, but this wiki seems to hate them, so unfortunately you have to google it if you don't yet use it ) reveal any random generated NPC sprites that could be identified as Altmer or any other Mer, for that reason. For what I know, TESII:Daggerfall only randomly generated the native population (Breton and Redguard), though some of the townie sprites are identified as Nords in the resource files, according to Daggerfall Imaging.

Do you happen to have any other sources on this, or would it be safe to remove the "and Daggerfall" bit from the headings etc?

Regards,

Mustakettu {{Uns2| 21:57, 18 April 2013‎|79.104.6.107}}

:The link ( http://www.dfworkshop.net/?cat=10 ), was blocked because it is unrecognized as a valid link. The line "If you believe this edit to be constructive, you may click Submit again to confirm it." means that all you had to do was click "save" again and it would have displayed. All I'm going to say is that the wiki has been plagued by so much spam that blocking unrecognized links (and asking humans to resubmit) has become a necessity. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:04, 18 April 2013 (GMT)

::The names used in Daggerfall are the same names used for Arena. So the names are in the Daggerfall files, but if they are used or not ingame I have no idea. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 00:50, 19 April 2013 (GMT)

== Cormelik the Elder ==

Hi, Kimi; could you provide a source for this entry on [[Lore:People C]]. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 06:47, 5 May 2013 (GMT)

:Ok I added one, but im not sure if I did it right. It comes from the [[Arena:Arena|Arena]] quest for [[Arena:Auriel's Shield|Auriel's Shield]]. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 04:17, 6 May 2013 (GMT)

::That's perfect, thanks. It looked liked Arena info, but I didn't want to presume. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 04:37, 6 May 2013 (GMT)

== Image help for the novice ==

Hey it's Tiber! I saw on your user page that you had a very cool image. Just wondering
How to post a non uesp image because I'm doing my user page. I'd appreciate your help. Post the answer on
My talk page please. --[[User:Tiberseptim2|Tiberseptim2]] ([[User talk:Tiberseptim2|talk]]) 03:42, 22 June 2013 (GMT)

== Icon images ==

Hi Kimi. I'm not sure if you're still around, but I'm trying to find out how to create [[:Category:Icon_Images|icon images]] and can't seem to find this info anywhere on the wiki. It looks like you and TRL created the majority of these, and TRL isn't very active these days, so if you (or somebody who is <s>stalking</s> watching your userpage) could point me in the right direction, that would be awesome. Thanks in advance! --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 17:22, 13 October 2013 (GMT)

: I believe the images were created by taking a screenshot of the inventory model while within a modded cell with zero lighting. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:58, 13 October 2013 (GMT)

::Yeah, they just are screenshots of the inventory. ^_^ [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 21:06, 13 October 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim:Specialty Gear

2013-09-17T19:10:10Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Thalmor Equipment */ width=96

{{Trail|Items}}{{split}}{{TOCright}}
This page summarizes all of the '''Specialty Gear''' in Skyrim. These are items that can be found in many locations in the game, but yet do not qualify as generic weapons or generic armor. For example, it includes weapons and armor that are only used by specific types of NPC (e.g., Draugr, Falmer, Forsworn). It also includes some items, such as pickaxes and woodcutter's axes, that are only used in certain situations.

==Amulets of the Divines==
None of these amulets can be disenchanted. They are available as random drops and at [[Skyrim:Radiant Raiment|Radiant Raiment]] in Solitude.
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
!class="unsortable"|Location(s)
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfAkatosh.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Akatosh|Akatosh]]}} {{ID|(000c8911)}}
| 1 || 89
| ''Magicka regenerates 25% faster:''
* [[Skyrim:Regenerate Magicka|Regenerate Magicka]], 25 pts
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfArkay.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Arkay|Arkay]]}} {{ID|(000cc848)}}
| 1 || 114
| ''Increases your health by 10 points:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Health|Fortify Health]], 10 pts
|
* There is a guaranteed amulet at [[Skyrim:Wayward Pass|Wayward Pass]] at the [[Skyrim:Shrine of Arkay|Shrine of Arkay]]
* You are guaranteed to get one in [[Skyrim:Markarth|Markarth]]. [[Skyrim:Brother Verulus|Brother Verulus]] will ask you to investigate the [[Skyrim:Hall of the Dead (Markarth)|Hall of the Dead]]. Once you've cleared the hall, you can get an Amulet of Arkay from him.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfDibella.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Dibella|Dibella]]}} {{ID|(000c8915)}}
| 1 || 118
| ''+15 Speechcraft:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Persuasion|Fortify Persuasion]], 15 pts
|
*Haelga at Haelga's Bunkhouse in Riften has one to pickpocket if you have the Perfect Touch perk.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfJulianos.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Julianos|Julianos]]}}{{Intnote|Julianos}} {{ID|(000c8917)}}
| 1 || 108
| ''Increases your Magicka by 10 points:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Magicka|Fortify Magicka]], 10 pts
|
* There is a guaranteed amulet in [[Skyrim:Fort Amol|Fort Amol]] ([[Skyrim:Eastmarch|Eastmarch]]), below the shrine when it is occupied by bandits.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfKynareth.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Kynareth|Kynareth]]}} {{ID|(000c8919)}}
| 1 || 96
| ''Increases your Stamina by 10 points:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Stamina|Fortify Stamina]], 10 pts
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfMara.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Mara|Mara]]}} {{ID|(000c891b)}}
| 1 || 316
| ''Restoration spells cost 10% less to cast:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Restoration|Fortify Restoration]], 10 pts
|
* Can be bought from [[Skyrim:Maramal|Maramal]] in [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]] as part of [[Skyrim:The Bonds of Matrimony|The Bonds of Matrimony]] quest.
* Given to the player by [[Skyrim:Dinya Balu|Dinya Balu]] as part of the quest [[Skyrim:The Book of Love|The Book Of Love]]
* There is a guaranteed amulet in the tent 350 ft E of [[Skyrim:Dawnstar Sanctuary|Dawnstar Sanctuary]] ([[Skyrim:The Pale|The Pale]]) {{Map Link|x=38748|y=112905}}
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfStendarr.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Stendarr|Stendarr]]}} {{ID|(000cc844)}}
| 1 || 196
| ''Block 10% more damage with your shield:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Blocking|Fortify Blocking]], 10 pts
|
* Worn by randomly encountered [[Skyrim:Vigilant of Stendarr|Vigilants of Stendarr]], including a dead Vigilant guaranteed to be found in [[Skyrim:Mara's Eye Den|Mara's Eye Den]].
* {{DG}} The [[Skyrim:Charmed Vigilant|Charmed Vigilant]]s found in [[Skyrim:Ruunvald Excavation|Ruunvald]] during the quest [[Skyrim:Bolstering the Ranks|Bolstering the Ranks]] all wear the amulet.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfTalos.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Talos|Talos]]}} {{ID|(000cc846)}}
| 1 || 25
| ''Time between shouts is reduced 20%:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Shouts|Fortify Shouts]], 0.2 pts
|
* As part of [[Skyrim:Velehk Sain|Velehk's]] treasure, there is an amulet at a [[Skyrim:Shrines#Shrine of Talos|Shrine of Talos]] 490 ft SE of [[Skyrim:Pilgrim's Trench|Pilgrim's Trench]] ([[Skyrim:Winterhold (region)|Winterhold]]) {{Map Link|x=89235|y=109022}}
* [[Skyrim:Roggvir|Roggvir]], the man beheaded when you first enter [[Skyrim:Solitude|Solitude]], is wearing one. It can be taken off of his corpse after the execution, or taken from his crypt through a [[Skyrim:Return to Grace|quest]] given to you by his sister. Taking this particular instance of the amulet prior to starting its associated quest is known to cause a bug where all amulets of Talos become quest items and the quest itself never starts.
* There is an amulet on the top of the northern tower at [[Skyrim:Fort Dawnguard|Fort Dawnguard]]{{DG}} on a barrel.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-AmuletOfZenithar.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Amulet of [[Lore:Zenithar|Zenithar]]}} {{ID|(000878bb)}}
| 1 || 511
| ''Prices are 10% better:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Barter|Fortify Barter]], 10 pts
|
* There is a guaranteed amulet at the [[Skyrim:Shrine of Zenithar|Shrine of Zenithar]] northeast of [[Skyrim:Riften Stables|Riften Stables]] {{Map Link|x=181239|y=-81960}}
* Another guaranteed amulet at the Shrine of Zenithar 340 ft NNW of [[Skyrim:Broken Fang Cave|Broken Fang Cave]] ([[Skyrim:Whiterun Hold|Whiterun Hold]]) {{Map Link|x=-52858|y=-7989}}
|}
{{Note|Julianos||{{Bug|An ''Amulet of Julianos'' will look like the ''[[Skyrim:Jeweled Amulet|Jeweled Amulet]]'' on female characters, due to the wrong model being attributed.|nobullet=yes|USKP|1.2.5}}}}

==Blades Equipment==
===Blades Weapons===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon_small.png|Damage]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-BladesSword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Blades Sword}} {{ID|(0003aeb9)}} || One Handed Sword
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 10 || 300 || 11
|
* Obtained from [[Skyrim:Delphine|Delphine]]'s secret room in The Sleeping Giant's Inn in [[Skyrim:Riverwood|Riverwood]], as well as [[Skyrim:Sky Haven Temple|Sky Haven Temple]].
*[[Skyrim:Followers|Followers]] inducted into the Blades also carry one, and it can be obtained from their inventory when they are actively following you.
* One can be found on [[Skyrim:Fultheim|Fultheim]] in [[Skyrim:Nightgate Inn|Nightgate Inn]].
|}

===Blades Armor===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-BladesArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Blades Armor}} {{ID|(0004b28b)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: none
| 45 || 400 || 44
|rowspan=5|
* The [[Skyrim:Blades|Blades]] armor can be obtained from a chest in [[Skyrim:Sky Haven Temple|Sky Haven Temple]] after completing [[Skyrim:Alduin's Wall|Alduin's Wall]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-BladesBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Blades Boots}} {{ID|(0004b288)}} || Heavy Boots
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: none
| 10 || 85 || 13
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-BladesGauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Blades Gauntlets}} {{ID|(0004b28d)}} || Heavy Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: none
| 8 || 85 || 13
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-BladesHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Blades Helmet}} {{ID|(0004b28f)}} || Heavy Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: none
| 12 || 200 || 18
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-BladesShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Blades Shield}} {{ID|(0004f912)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: none
| 12 || 225 || 26
|}

====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Blades Armor Male.jpg|Blades Armor Male
File:SR-item-Blades Armor Female.jpg|Blades Armor Female
</gallery>

==Companions Equipment==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WolfArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Wolf Armor}} {{ID|(000cae15)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 20 || 55 || 31
|rowspan=4|
* Functionally the set gives the same protection as [[Skyrim: Steel Armor|Steel Armor]], but lighter. All pieces can be purchased from [[Skyrim:Eorlund Gray-Mane|Eorlund Gray-Mane]] after officially joining the Companions.
*Wearing the Wolf Gauntlets may make any necklace or amulet worn by the player invisible.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WolfBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Wolf Boots}} {{ID|(000cee7c)}} || Heavy Boots
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 4 || 11 || 12
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WolfGauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Wolf Gauntlets}} {{ID|(000cee7e)}} || Heavy Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 4 || 11 || 12
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WolfHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Wolf Helmet}} {{ID|(0004c3d0)}} || Heavy Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 4 || 125 || 17
|-
|}
====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Wolf Armor Male.jpg|Wolf Armor Male
File:SR-item-Wolf Armor Female.jpg|Wolf Armor Female
</gallery>

==Dark Brotherhood Equipment==
Except for the second version of the Worn Shrouded Armor {{ID|(00105966)}}, one example of each piece of equipment can be found in the [[Skyrim:Dawnstar Sanctuary|Dawnstar Sanctuary]].

{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
|rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WornShroudedArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Worn Shrouded Armor}} {{ID|(0010eb5b)}} || Light Armor
| Not possible
| 6 || 80 || 20
|
|-
| {{LE|Worn Shrouded Armor}} {{ID|(00105966)}} || Light Armor
| Not possible
| 6 || 80 || 20 ||
* Cannot be equipped by the player.
|-
|rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WornShroudedBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Worn Shrouded Boots}} {{ID|(0010eb5c)}} || Light Boots
| Not possible
| 2 || 45 || 3
|
|-
| {{LE|Worn Shrouded Boots}} {{ID|(00105967)}} || Light Boots
| Not possible
| 2 || 45 || 3 ||
* Cannot be equipped by the player.
|-
|rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WornShroudedCowl.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Worn Shrouded Cowl}} {{ID|(0010eb5d)}} || Light Helmet
| Not possible
| 2 || 50 || 8
|
|-
| {{LE|Worn Shrouded Cowl}} {{ID|(00105969)}} || Light Helmet
| Not possible
| 2 || 50 || 8 ||
* Cannot be equipped by the player.
|-
|rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WornShroudedGloves.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Worn Shrouded Gloves}} {{ID|(0010eb5e)}} || Light Gauntlets
| Not possible
| 2 || 50 || 4
|
* ''Backstab does double damage''
* Disenchant: No {{vn|section=Worn Shrouded Gloves USKP fix.}}
|-
| {{LE|Worn Shrouded Gloves}} {{ID|(00105968)}} || Light Gauntlets
| Not possible
| 2 || 50 || 4 ||
* Cannot be equipped by the player. 
* ''Backstab does double damage''
* Disenchant: No
|}
{{bug|When picking up the versions that cannot be equipped by the player, they turn invisible in the inventory and can't be dropped. They still add to the carry weight though. It's the armor found in the master bedroom next to the bed. On the PC they can be dropped with the console command <code>player.drop ID 1</code>, where ID is the respective item ID found in the table.|USKP|1.2}}
{{bug|Although the Worn Shrouded Gloves display an enchantment in game, no such enchantment is applied. If the player wishes, a custom enchantment can be applied to the gloves at an [[Skyrim:Arcane Enchanter|arcane enchanter]]. Even with a custom enchantment, the description will still read ''"Backstab does double damage"''.|USKP|1.3.2}}

====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Shrouded Armor Male.jpg|Shrouded Armor Male
File:SR-item-Shrouded Armor Female2.jpg|Shrouded Armor Female
File:SR-item-Shrouded Armor Female.jpg|Female, with cowl
</gallery>

=={{LE|Dawnguard Equipment}}{{DG}}==
===Dawnguard Weapons===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable width=48|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
![[Skyrim:Grindstone|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon_small.png|Damage]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Dawnguard War Axe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard War Axe}} {{ID|(xx00d098)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 13 || 55 || 11
|
* Does additional 10 points damage to [[Skyrim:Vampire|vampires]].
* Three can be found on the top of the northern tower at [[Skyrim:Fort Dawnguard|Fort Dawnguard]] on two weapon plaques.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Dawnguard Warhammer.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Warhammer}} {{ID|(xx00dd55)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 26 || 110 || 22
|
* Does additional damage to vampires.
* One can be found on the top of the northern tower at [[Skyrim:Fort Dawnguard|Fort Dawnguard]] on a weapon plaque.
|}

===Dawnguard Armor===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable width=48|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Armor xx00f3fb.png|48px]] [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Armor xx00f402.png|48px]] [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Armor xx00f404.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Armor}} {{ID|(xx00f3fb) (Red, Sleeveless on Males)}} {{ID|(xx00f402) (Gray, w/Left Pauldron)}} {{ID|(xx00f404) (Brown, w/Canteen)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 6 || 220 || 29
| Three colors are available in three styles.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Boots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Boots}} {{ID|(xx00f400)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 1.5 || 25 || 8
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Full Helmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Full Helmet}} {{ID|(xx0050d0)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 10 || 220 || 18 || 25% less damage from Vampire attacks and Drain Life spells while wearing a complete set of Dawnguard armor.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Gauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Gauntlets}} {{ID|(xx00f3fe)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 1.5 || 40 || 8
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Heavy Armor xx00f3fa.png|48px]] [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Heavy Armor xx00f3f7.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Heavy Armor}} {{ID|(xx00f3fa) (Gray, plain Mail Skirt)}} {{ID|(xx00f3f7) (Brown, studded Mail Skirt)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 42 || 425 || 34
| Two styles are available.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Helmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Helmet}} {{ID|(xx01989e)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 1.5 || 100 || 16 || 25% less damage from Vampire attacks and Drain Life spells while wearing a complete set of Dawnguard armor.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Boots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Heavy Boots}} {{ID|(xx014757)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 9 || 85 || 13
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Gauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Heavy Gauntlets}} {{ID|(xx014758)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 7 || 85 || 13
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dawnguard Shield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dawnguard Shield}}{{Intnote|DGshield}} {{ID|(xx0150b8)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 10 || 240 || 26 || +10 Bash damage against vampires.
|}
{{Note|DGshield||{{Bug|Equipping the Dawnguard Shield prevents the Well Fitted, Custom Fit and Matching Set perks from functioning.|nobullet=yes|UDGP|1.1}}}}

Note: The Dawnguard Full Armor Bonus is applied when a Helm, Armor, Gauntlets and Boots are worn together and does not require equipping a shield. Mixing the light and heavy sets will not confer the bonus however. Additionally the bonus is "hidden" as it does not appear in the active effects menu.

====Gallery====
;Male
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Heavy Armor Male 01.jpg|Dawnguard Heavy Armor (Brown)
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Heavy Armor Male 02.jpg|Dawnguard Heavy Armor (Gray)
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Armor Male 01.jpg|Dawnguard Armor (Red)
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Armor Male 02.jpg|Dawnguard Armor (Gray)
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Armor Male 03.jpg|Dawnguard Armor (Brown)
</gallery>
;Female
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Heavy Armor Female 01.jpg|Dawnguard Heavy Armor (Brown)
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Heavy Armor Female 02.jpg|Dawnguard Heavy Armor (Gray)
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Armor Female 01.jpg|Dawnguard Armor (Red)
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Armor Female 02.jpg|Dawnguard Armor (Gray)
File:SR-item-Dawnguard Armor Female 03.jpg|Dawnguard Armor (Brown)
</gallery>

==Draugr Equipment==
===Ancient Nord Weapons===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
![[Skyrim:Grindstone|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon_small.png|Damage]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordArrows.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Arrow}} {{ID|(00034182)}}
|
| 0 || 1 || 10 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordBattleAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Battle Axe}} {{ID|(0001cb64)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 22 || 28 || 18 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordBow.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Bow}} {{ID|(000302ca)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 12 || 45 || 8 ||
*Draw speed 0.875
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordGreatsword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Greatsword}} {{ID|(000236a5)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 18 || 35 || 17 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordSword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Sword}} {{ID|(0002c66f)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 12 || 13 || 8 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordWarAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord War Axe}} {{ID|(0002c672)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 14 || 15 || 9 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordBattleAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Honed Ancient Nord Battle Axe}} {{ID|(0005bf12)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Dwarven Smithing|Dwarven]]
| 25 || 50 || 21 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordGreatsword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Honed Ancient Nord Greatsword}} {{ID|(0005bf13)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Dwarven Smithing|Dwarven]]
| 21 || 63 || 20 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordSword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Honed Ancient Nord Sword}} {{ID|(0005bf14)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Dwarven Smithing|Dwarven]]
| 15 || 23 || 11 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordWarAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Honed Draugr War Axe}} {{ID|(0005bf15)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Dwarven Smithing|Dwarven]]
| 16 || 27 || 12 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-AncientNordBow.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Supple Ancient Nord Bow}} {{ID|(0005d179)}}
| Not possible {{Intnote|Supple|†}}
| 18 || 235 || 14 ||
*Draw speed 0.875
|}
{{Note|Supple|†|{{Bug|The supple ancient Nord bow cannot be tempered at a grindstone.|nobullet=1|USKP|1.0}}}}

===Draugr Armor===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable width=96|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-jewelry-TheGauldurAmulet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Amulet}} {{ID|(000cc842)}} || Amulet
| N/A
| 1 || 100 || 0
|rowspan=1|
* Found in the [[Skyrim:Jarl's Longhouse (Falkreath)|Jarl's Longhouse]] ([[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]]), in a display case behind Jarl Siddgeir's bed.
{{Bug|Can't be enchanted.|USKP|1.2.7}}
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-AncientNordArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Armor}} {{ID|(00018388)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Daedric Smithing|Daedric]]
| 28 || 125 || 25
|
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-AncientNordBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Boots}} {{ID|(00056a9d)}} || Heavy Boots
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Daedric Smithing|Daedric]]
| 5 || 25 || 10
|
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-AncientNordGauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Gauntlets}} {{ID|(00056b17)}} || Heavy Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Daedric Smithing|Daedric]]
| 4 || 25 || 10
|
|-
|rowspan=4| [[File:SR-icon-armor-AncientNordHelmet(m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-AncientNordHelmet(f).png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Helmet}} {{ID|(00056a9e)}} || Heavy Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Daedric Smithing|Daedric]]
| 4 || 60 || 15
|
|-
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Helmet}} {{ID|(001019ca)}} || Heavy Helmet
| Not possible
| 9 || 320 || 23
|rowspan=3|
* Only equippable through the [[Skyrim:Console|console]].
|-
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Helmet}} {{ID|(0001fd7c)}} || Heavy Helmet
| Not possible
| 1 || 1 || 1
|-
| {{LE|Ancient Nord Helmet}} {{ID|(0001fd7b)}} {{ID|(0001fd77)}} || Light Helmet
| Not possible
| 1 || 1 || 1
|}

====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Ancient Nord Armor Male.jpg|Ancient Nord Armor Male
File:SR-item-Ancient Nord Armor Female.jpg|Ancient Nord Armor Female
</gallery>

==Dremora Equipment==
All of these Dremora-specific items can only be equipped using the console.
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-BlackRobes.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Black Robes}} {{ID|(00016ffe)}} || Clothing
| N/A
| 1 || 5 || 0
|rowspan=2|
* These are specifically worn by Dremora, unlike standard [[Skyrim:Black Robes|Black Robes]] or [[Skyrim:Boots|Boots]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-Boots9.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Boots}} {{ID|(00016fff)}} || Shoes
| N/A
| 1 || 4 || 0
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-DaedricArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Daedric Armor}} {{ID|(000f1abe)}} || Heavy Armor
| Not possible
| 38 || 640 || 49
|rowspan=4|
* These varieties of Daedric Armor are specifically worn by Dremora, and are different from the standard [[Skyrim:Daedric Armor|Daedric Armor]], [[Skyrim:Daedric Boots|Daedric Boots]], [[Skyrim:Daedric Gauntlets|Daedric Gauntlets]], and [[Skyrim:Daedric Helmet|Daedric Helmet]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-DaedricBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Daedric Boots}} {{ID|(000f1abd)}} || Heavy Boots
| Not possible
| 9 || 125 || 18
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-DaedricGauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Daedric Gauntlets}} {{ID|(000f1ac0)}} || Heavy Gauntlets
| Not possible
| 9 || 125 || 18
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-DaedricHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Daedric Helmet}} {{ID|(0010f75f)}} || Heavy Helmet
| Not possible
| 15 || 1600 || 23
|}

====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Daedric Armor Male.jpg|Daedric Armor Male
File:SR-item-Daedric Armor Female.jpg|Daedric Armor Female
</gallery>

==Falmer Equipment==
===Falmer Weapons===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
![[Skyrim:Grindstone|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon_small.png|Damage]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-FalmerArrows.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Arrow}} {{ID|(00038341)}}
|
| 0 || 1 || 7 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-FalmerBow.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Bow}} {{ID|(00038340)}}
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: none
| 15 || 135 || 12 ||
*Draw speed 0.75
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-FalmerBow.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Supple Bow}} {{ID|(00083167)}}
| {{Bug|Not possible|nobullet=1|confirmed=1}}
| 20 || 410 || 15
|
* Cannot be obtained
* Draw speed 0.75
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-FalmerSword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Sword}} {{ID|(0002e6d1)}}
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: none
| 18 || 67 || 10 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-FalmerWarAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer War Axe}} {{ID|(000302cd)}}
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: none
| 21 || 82 || 11 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-FalmerSword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Honed Falmer Sword}} {{ID|(0006f6ff)}}
| Not possible {{Intnote|Honed|†}}
| 18 || 205 || 12 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-FalmerWarAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Honed Falmer War Axe}} {{ID|(0006f700)}}
| Not possible {{Intnote|Honed|†}}
| 21 || 245 || 13 ||
|}
{{Note|Honed|†|{{Bug|Honed weapons cannot be tempered at a grindstone.|nobullet=1|USKP|1.0|it allows tempering with the use of one [[Skyrim:Chaurus_Chitin|chaurus chitin]]}}}}

===Falmer Armor===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FalmerArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Armor}} {{ID|(000b83cb)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]] ''or''  [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]{{DG}}
| 20 || 275 || 31
| rowspan=3 |
*The perk that improves tempering of these three items changes from Steel Smithing to Advanced Armors with the addition of [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]]. {{vn|section=Falmer armor tempering}}
*The Falmer Boots do not actually cover your feet and look more like greaves. However, when walking or running on hard surfaces, it still sounds as though you are wearing boots.
* A full set (including a helmet) can be found at [[Skyrim:Mzinchaleft|Mzinchaleft]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FalmerBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Boots}} {{ID|(000b83cd)}} || Heavy Boots
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]] ''or''  [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]{{DG}}
| 4 || 55 || 12
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FalmerGauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Gauntlets}} {{ID|(000b83cf)}} || Heavy Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]] ''or''  [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]{{DG}}
| 4 || 55 || 12
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FalmerHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Helmet}} {{ID|(0004c3cb)}} || See Notes
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: none
| 5 || 25 || 10
|
* Classified as Heavy Armor and grants Heavy Armor experience, but is affected by light armor perks.
{{Bug|This item is one of only three items in the game (along with the [[Skyrim:Jagged Crown|Jagged Crown]] and [[Skyrim:Penitus Oculatus Helmet|Penitus Oculatus Helmet]]s) that fills only the "hair" body part slot when worn. This means that it can be worn simultaneously with any [[Skyrim:circlet|circlet]] or a [[Skyrim:Dragon Priest Mask|Dragon Priest Mask]].|USKP|1.2}}
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FalmerShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Shield}} {{ID|(0005c06c)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: none
| 15 || 10 || 28
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Ancient Falmer Boots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Falmer Boots}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx00c815)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Elven#Elven_Smithing|Elven]]
| 2 || 190 || 11
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Ancient Falmer Crown.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Falmer Crown}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx00c814)}} || Circlet
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]]; perk: None
| 2 || 350 || 0
|
* Cannot be obtained.
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Ancient Falmer Cuirass.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Falmer Cuirass}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx00c816)}} {{ID|(xx00cad3)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Elven#Elven_Smithing|Elven]]
| 7 || 900 || 38
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
*The first version (<code>xx00c816</code>) is worn by [[Skyrim:Arch-Curate Vyrthur|Arch-Curate Vyrthur]] and can be obtained during the quest [[Skyrim:Touching the Sky|Touching the Sky]]
*The second version (<code>xx00cad3</code>) is worn by [[Skyrim:Knight-Paladin Gelebor|Knight-Paladin Gelebor]] and can only be equipped using the console. For males this version has no shoulder pads. For females it is identical to the first version.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Ancient Falmer Gauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Ancient Falmer Gauntlets}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx00c817)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Elven#Elven_Smithing|Elven]]
| 2 || 190 || 11
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
|rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Falmer Heavy Armor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Hardened Armor}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx00e8de)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 40 || 250 || 34
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
| {{LE|Falmer Heavy Armor}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx0023e9)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 35 || 1200 || 43
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
|rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Falmer Heavy Boots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Hardened Boots}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx00e8dd)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 8 || 50 || 13
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
| {{LE|Falmer Heavy Boots}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx0023ef)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 6 || 225 || 16
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
|rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Falmer Heavy Gauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Hardened Gauntlets}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx00e8df)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 7 || 60 || 13
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
| {{LE|Falmer Heavy Gauntlets}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx0023ed)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 6 || 225 || 16
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
|rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Falmer Heavy Helm.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falmer Hardened Helm}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx00e8e0)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 10 || 150 || 18
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|-
| {{LE|Falmer Heavy Helm}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx0023eb)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Chaurus Chitin|Chaurus Chitin]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 8 || 600 || 21
|
*Only available with the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard plug-in]]
|}

====Gallery====
;Male
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Falmer Armor Male.jpg|Falmer Armor
File:SR-item-Falmer Hardened Armor Male.jpg|Falmer Hardened Armor
File:SR-item-Ancient Falmer Armor Male.jpg|Ancient Falmer Armor
</gallery>
;Female
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Falmer Armor Female.jpg|Falmer Armor
File:SR-item-Falmer Hardened Armor Female.jpg|Falmer Hardened Armor
File:SR-item-Ancient Falmer Armor Female.jpg|Ancient Falmer Armor
</gallery>

==[[Skyrim:Forsworn|Forsworn]] Equipment==
===Forsworn Weapons===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
![[Skyrim:Grindstone|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon_small.png|Damage]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-ForswornArrows.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Arrow}} {{ID|(000cee9e)}}
|
| 0 || 1 || 7 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-ForswornAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Axe}} {{ID|(000cc829)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 15 || 90 || 11 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-ForswornBow.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Bow}} {{ID|(000cee9b)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 11 || 145 || 12 ||
*Draw speed 0.875
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Hagraven'sStaff.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Staff}} {{ID|(000fa2c1)}} {{ID|(000cc826)}}
| N/A
| 8 || 205 || 0
| ''A gout of fire that does 8 points per second. Targets on fire take extra damage:''
* [[Skyrim:Flames|Flames]], 8 pts for 1 sec
* Charge/Cost=Uses: 500/14=35 seconds
* Disenchant: No
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-ForswornSword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Sword}} {{ID|(000cade9)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 13 || 70 || 10 ||
|}

===Forsworn Armor===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ForswornArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Armor}} {{ID|(000d8d50)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 100 || 26
|
|-
|
| {{LE|Forsworn Armor}} {{ID|(0005d009)}} {{ID|(0007eaf1)}} || Clothing
| N/A
| 1 || 2 || 5 ||
* {{ID|(0005d009)}} is worn by [[Skyrim:Forsworn Briarheart|Briarhearts]]. It is only equippable through the [[Skyrim:Console|console]] has the body of a male Briarheart even when worn by a female.
* {{ID|(0007eaf1)}} is the burnt body of [[Skyrim:Astrid|Astrid]]. It is only equippable through the [[Skyrim:Console|console]]. When worn by a male only your head is visible.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ForswornBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Boots}} {{ID|(000d8d4e)}} || Light Boots
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 20 || 7
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ForswornGauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Gauntlets}} {{ID|(000d8d55)}} || Light Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 20 || 7 ||
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ForswornHeaddress.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Forsworn Headdress}} {{ID|(000d8d52)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 50 || 12
|
|}
====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Forsworn Armor Male.jpg|Forsworn Armor Male
File:SR-item-Forsworn Armor Female.jpg|Forsworn Armor Female
</gallery>

==Guard Equipment==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-StormcloakHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Eastmarch Guard Helmet}} {{ID|(0010559d)}} || Light Helmet
| Not possible
| 2 || 12 || 12 ||
* Cannot be obtained.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FalkreathGuard'sArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falkreath Guard's Armor}} {{ID|(0002151e)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FalkreathGuard'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falkreath Guard's Helmet}} {{ID|(00021619)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FalkreathGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Falkreath Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214ed)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-HjaalmarchGuard'sArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Hjaalmarch Guard's Armor}} {{ID|(00021520)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-HjaalmarchGuard'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Hjaalmarch Guard's Helmet}} {{ID|(0002161b)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-HjaalmarchGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Hjaalmarch Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214ef)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-MarkarthGuard'sArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Markarth Guard's Armor}} {{ID|(00021508)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-MarkarthGuard'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Markarth Guard's Helmet}} {{ID|(00021613)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-MarkarthGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Markarth Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214dc)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-PaleGuard'sArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Pale Guard's Armor}} {{ID|(00021525)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-PaleGuard'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Pale Guard's Helmet}} {{ID|(0002161f)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-PaleGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Pale Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214f7)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-RiftenGuard'sArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Riften Guard's Armor}} {{ID|(00021507)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-RiftenGuard'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Riften Guard's Helmet}} {{ID|(00021622)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-RiftenGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Riften Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214ba)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-SolitudeGuard'sArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Solitude Guard's Armor}} {{ID|(000c7f5b)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-SolitudeGuard'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Solitude Guard's Helmet}} {{ID|(000c7f5c)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-SolitudeGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Solitude Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214f4)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WhiterunGuard'sArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Whiterun Guard's Armor}} {{ID|(0002150d)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
* Sold by [[Skyrim:Adrianne Avenicci|Adrianne Avenicci]] and [[Skyrim:Lucan Valerius|Lucan Valerius]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WhiterunGuard'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Whiterun Guard's Helmet}} {{ID|(00021615)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WhiterunGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Whiterun Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214e0)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WindhelmGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Windhelm Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214eb)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
* This is the only armor piece specific to Windhelm guards. They use [[#Stormcloak Equipment|Stormcloak Equipment]] for the rest of their gear.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WinterholdGuard'sArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Winterhold Guard's Armor}} {{ID|(00021522)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WinterholdGuard'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Winterhold Guard's Helmet}} {{ID|(0002161d)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-WinterholdGuard'sShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Winterhold Guard's Shield}} {{ID|(000214f1)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Iron Ingot|Iron Ingot]]; perk: none
| 3 || 40 || 17
|
* There is only one copy of this shield in the game, found on the guard that patrols [[Skyrim:Whistling Mine|Whistling Mine]] southeast of Winterhold. It can be pickpocketed. None of the other Hold guards carry a shield.
|}

==Imperial Soldier Equipment==

===Imperial Soldier Weapons===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
![[Skyrim:Grindstone|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon_small.png|Damage]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-ImperialBow.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Bow}} {{ID|(00013841)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: none
| 8 || 90 || 9 ||
*Draw speed 0.75
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-ImperialSword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Sword}} {{ID|(000135b8)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 10 || 23 || 8 ||
|}

===Imperial Soldier Armor===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Armor}} {{ID|(000136d5)}} || Heavy Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 35 || 100 || 25
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Boots}} {{ID|(000136d6)}} || Heavy Boots
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 8 || 20 || 10
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialBracers.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Bracers}} {{ID|(000136d4)}} || Heavy Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 4 || 15 || 10
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialLightArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Light Armor}} {{ID|(00013ed9)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-StuddedImperialArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Studded Imperial Armor}} {{ID|(00013ed8)}} || Light Armor
| Not possible {{Intnote|Studded|†}}
| 6 || 125 || 23 ||
* Although described in-game as Imperial "medium" armor, it is actually light armor.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialLightBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Light Boots}} {{ID|(00013ed7)}} || Light Boots
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 15 || 6
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialLightBracers.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Light Bracers}} {{ID|(00013eda)}} || Light Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 1 || 15 || 6
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialLightHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Light Helmet}} {{ID|(00013edb)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 35 || 11
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialLightShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Light Shield}} {{ID|(00013ab2)}} || Light Shield
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 4 || 40 || 19
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialOfficer'sHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Officer's Helmet}} {{ID|(000136cf)}} || Heavy Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 4 || 30 || 17
|
*Worn by the [[Skyrim:Imperial Captain|Imperial Captain]] during the quest [[Skyrim:Unbound|Unbound]]. Can be acquired by killing her after following [[Skyrim:Ralof|Ralof]].
*Also worn by a [[Skyrim:Scavenger|Scavenger]] in a [[Skyrim:World_Interactions#Scavenger|random encounter]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialHelmet(open).png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Helmet}} {{ID|(00013edc)}} || Heavy Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: none
| 5 || 50 || 15
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialHelmet(full).png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Helmet}} {{ID|(0009610d)}} || Heavy Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 5 || 30 || 18 ||
* This is a full-face version of the Imperial Helmet. One can be found during [[Skyrim:Scoundrel's Folly|Scoundrel's Folly]]. There is also one just inside the entrance of Meridia's Temple next to a desecrated corpse. A much more obscured one can also be found at a Shrine of Talos on a mountaintop, following the path south of [[Skyrim:Froki's Shack|Froki's Shack]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ImperialShield.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Imperial Shield}} {{ID|(000135ba)}} || Heavy Shield
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 12 || 50 || 20
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-PenitusOculatusArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Penitus Oculatus Armor}} {{ID|(000d3ea0)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: none
| 6 || 75 || 23
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-PenitusOculatusBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Penitus Oculatus Boots}} {{ID|(000d3ea7)}} || Light Boots
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 1 || 15 || 6
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-PenitusOculatusBracers.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Penitus Oculatus Bracers}} {{ID|(000d3eab)}} || Light Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 1 || 15 || 6
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-PenitusOculatusHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Penitus Oculatus Helmet}} {{ID|(000d3eaa)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 1 || 35 || 11 ||
{{Bug|This item is one of only three items in the game (along with [[Skyrim:Falmer Helmet|Falmer Helmet]]s and the [[Skyrim:Jagged Crown|Jagged Crown]]) that fills only the "hair" body part slot when worn. This means that it can be worn simultaneously with any [[Skyrim:circlet|circlet]] or a [[Skyrim:Dragon Priest Mask|Dragon Priest Mask]]. Out of the three items, the Penitus Oculatus Helmet is the most lightweight.|USKP|1.2}}
|}
{{Note|Studded|†|{{Bug|The studded Imperial armor cannot be tempered at a workbench.|nobullet=1|USKP|1.0}}}}

====Gallery====
;Male
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Imperial Armor Male 01.jpg|Imperial Armor
File:SR-item-Imperial Armor Male 02.jpg|Full-face Imperial Helmet
File:SR-item-Imperial Armor Male 03.jpg|Imperial Officer Helmet
File:SR-item-Imperial Light Armor Male 01.jpg|Imperial Light Armor
File:SR-item-Imperial Light Armor Male 02.jpg|Studded Imperial Armor and Imperial Shield
File:SR-item-Penitus Oculatus Armor Male.jpg|Penitus Oculatus Armor
</gallery>
;Female
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Imperial Armor Female 01.jpg|Imperial Armor
File:SR-item-Imperial Armor Female2.jpg|Full-face Imperial Helmet
File:SR-item-Imperial Armor Female3.jpg|Imperial Officer Helmet
File:SR-item-Imperial Light Armor Female.jpg|Imperial Light Armor
File:SR-item-Imperial Light Armor Female2.jpg|Studded Imperial Armor and Imperial Shield
File:SR-item-Penitus Oculatus Armor Female.jpg|Penitus Oculatus Armor
</gallery>

==Silver Hand Equipment==
{|class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Grindstone|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon_small.png|Damage]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-SilverSword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Silver Sword}} {{ID|(0010aa19)}} || One-Handed Sword || Not possible
| 7 || 100 || 8
|rowspan=2|
''Especially effective against undead.''
*Silver weapons do an extra 20 damage per hit to [[Skyrim:Werewolf|werewolves]], [[Dragonborn:Werebear|werebears]]{{DB}}, and [[Skyrim:Undead|undead]], including ghosts and [[Skyrim:Vampire|vampire]]s
*This effect is not considered an enchantment, so silver weapons can be [[Skyrim:Enchanting|enchanted]] like any normal unenchanted weapon, though they will always display the text "Especially effective against undead."
*Sometimes silver weapons do not show this effect in their description.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-SilverGreatsword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Silver Greatsword}} {{ID|(0010c6fb)}} || Two-Handed Sword || Not possible
| 12 || 160 || 17
|-
|}

==Stormcloak Equipment==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FurBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Fur Boots}} {{ID|(000a6d7f)}} || Light Boots
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 5 || 5
|rowspan=2|
* These boots and gauntlets are specific to guards and [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloaks]]. [[Skyrim:Armor#Light_Armor|Standard Fur equipment]] is worn by [[Skyrim:Bandit|Bandits]], who instead wear Fur Shoes and Fur Bracers.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FurGauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Fur Gauntlets}} {{ID|(000a6d7d)}} || Light Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 5 || 5
|-
| rowspan=2| [[File:SR-icon-armor-StormcloakCuirass.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Stormcloak Cuirass}} {{ID|(000a6d7b)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 8 || 25 || 21
|
* Also worn by guards in [[Skyrim:Windhelm|Windhelm]], and are similar in style to those worn by guards in other cities. (They differ only in color.)
|-
|{{LE|Stormcloak Cuirass}} {{ID|(000ad5a0)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 8 || 25 || 21
|
* This version has sleeves and cannot be found in the game.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-StormcloakHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Stormcloak Helmet}} {{ID|(000a6d79)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 12 || 10
|
* Also worn by guards in Windhelm, and are similar in style to those worn by guards in other cities. (They differ only in color.)
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-StormcloakOfficerArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Stormcloak Officer Armor}} {{ID|(0008697e)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 8 || 35 || 27
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-StormcloakOfficerBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Stormcloak Officer Boots}} {{ID|(00086981)}} || Light Boots
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 7 || 7
|
* Classified as Light Armor in-game, but instead is affected by Heavy Armor skill and perks, meaning there's no set bonus.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-StormcloakOfficerBracers.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Stormcloak Officer Bracers}} {{ID|(00086983)}} || Light Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 7 || 7
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-StormcloakOfficerHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Stormcloak Officer Helmet}} {{ID|(00086985)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: none
| 2 || 15 || 12
|
|}
====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Stormcloak Armor Male.jpg|Stormcloak Armor Male
File:SR-item-Stormcloak Armor Female.jpg|Stormcloak Armor Female
File:SR-item-Stormcloak Officer Armor Male.jpg|Stormcloak Officer Armor Male
File:SR-item-Stormcloak Officer Armor Female.jpg|Stormcloak Officer Armor Female
</gallery>

==Thalmor Equipment==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable width=96|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ElvenLightArmor(m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-ElvenArmor.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Elven Light Armor}} {{ID|(00105f12)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Elven Smithing|Elven]]
| 4 || 125 || 26
|rowspan=4|
*Appearance identical to [[Skyrim:Elven Armor|elven armor]] without pauldrons, but has the same armor rating as [[Skyrim:Leather Armor|leather armor]].
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ElvenBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Elven Light Boots}} {{ID|(00105f11)}} || Light Boots
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Elven Smithing|Elven]]
| 1 || 25 || 7
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ElvenGauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Elven Light Gauntlets}} {{ID|(00105f13)}} || Light Gauntlets
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Elven Smithing|Elven]]
| 1 || 25 || 7
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-ElvenHelmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Elven Light Helmet}} {{ID|(00105f14)}} || Light Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Elven Smithing|Elven]]
| 1 || 60 || 12
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-Thalmor Robes.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Hooded Thalmor Robes}} {{ID|(0010c698)}} || Clothing
| N/A
| 5 || 410 || 0
| ''Destruction spells cost 12% less to cast:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Destruction|Fortify Destruction]], 12 pts
* Disenchant: Yes
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-ThalmorBoots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Thalmor Boots}} {{ID|(00065bac)}} || Clothing
| N/A
| 1 || 10 || 0
|
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-ThalmorGloves.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Thalmor Gloves}} {{ID|(00065bb3)}} || Clothing
| N/A
| 1 || 10 || 0
|
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-Thalmor Robes.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Thalmor Robes}} {{ID|(00065bbf)}} || Clothing
| N/A
| 4 || 410 || 0
| ''Destruction spells cost 12% less to cast:''
* [[Skyrim:Fortify Destruction|Fortify Destruction]], 12 pts
* Disenchant: Yes
|}

====Gallery====
;Male
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Elven Light Armor Male.jpg|Elven Light Armor
File:SR-item-Hooded Thalmor Robes Male.jpg|Hooded Thalmor Robes
File:SR-item-Thalmor Robes Male.jpg|Thalmor Robes
</gallery>
;Female
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Elven Light Armor Female.jpg|Elven Light Armor
File:SR-item-Hooded Thalmor Robes Female.jpg|Hooded Thalmor Robes
File:SR-item-Thalmor Robes Female.jpg|Thalmor Robes
</gallery>

==Thieves Guild Equipment==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable width=48|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| {{icon|a|Guild Master's Armor}}
| {{LE|Guild Master's Armor}} {{ID|(001092b5)}} || Light Armor
| Not possible
| 10 || 300 || 38
|rowspan=12|
* All of this Thieves Guild Equipment is only equippable through the [[Skyrim:Console|console]]. The player-specific versions of all Guild Master's armor and all Thieves Guild armor are listed at [[Skyrim:Unique Items|Unique Items]].
|-
| {{icon|a|Guild Master's Boots}}
| {{LE|Guild Master's Boots}} {{ID|(001092b4)}} || Light Boots
| Not possible
| 2 || 100 || 15
|-
| {{icon|a|Guild Master's Gloves}}
| {{LE|Guild Master's Gloves}} {{ID|(001092b6)}} || Light Gauntlets
| Not possible
| 2 || 100 || 15
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Armor}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Armor}} {{ID|(00036584)}} || Light Armor
| Not possible
| 0 || 0 || 29
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Boots}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Boots}} {{ID|(00036583)}} || Light Boots
| Not possible
| 0 || 25 || 8
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Gloves}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Gloves}} {{ID|(00042be9)}} || Light Gauntlets
| Not possible
| 1.5 || 0 || 8
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Hood}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Hood}} {{ID|(00036585)}} || Light Helmet
| Not possible
| 1 || 0 || 13
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Hood Alt}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Hood Alt}} {{ID|(000e35df)}} || Light Helmet
| Not possible
| 0 || 0 || 13
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Variant Armor}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Variant Armor}} {{ID|(000e35db)}} || Light Armor
| Not possible
| 0 || 0 || 29
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Variant Boots}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Variant Boots}} {{ID|(000e35da)}} || Light Boots
| Not possible
| 0 || 0 || 8
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Variant Gloves}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Variant Gloves}} {{ID|(000e35dc)}} || Light Gauntlets
| Not possible
| 1 || 0 || 5
|-
| {{icon|a|Thieves Guild Variant Hood}}
| {{LE|Thieves Guild Variant Hood}} {{ID|(000e35dd)}} || Light Helmet
| Not possible
| 0 || 0 || 13
|}
====Gallery====
;Male
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Thieves Guild Armor Male.jpg|Thieves Guild Armor
File:SR-item-Thieves Guild Alternate Armor Male.jpg|Thieves Guild Hood Alt
File:SR-item-Thieves Guild Variant Armor Male.jpg|Thieves Guild Variant Armor
File:SR-item-Guild Master Armor Male.jpg|Guild Master Armor
</gallery>
;Female
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Thieves Guild Armor Female.jpg|Thieves Guild Armor
File:SR-item-Thieves Guild Alternate Armor Female.jpg|Thieves Guild Hood Alt
File:SR-item-Thieves Guild Variant Armor Female.jpg|Thieves Guild Variant Armor
File:SR-item-Guild Master Armor Female.jpg|Guild Master Armor
</gallery>

=={{LE|Vampire Equipment}}{{DG}}==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable width=96|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Armor xx0191f3 (m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Armor xx0191f3 (f).png|48px]] [[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Armor xx0142c7 (m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Armor xx0142c7 (f).png|48px]] [[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Armor xx0191f2 (m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Armor xx0191f2 (f).png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Armor}} {{ID|(xx0191f3) (Red)}} {{ID|(xx0142c7) (Gray)}} {{ID|(xx0191f2) (Light Gray)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 5 || 175 || 25
| Three colors are available; they are otherwise the same.
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Boots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Boots}} {{ID|(xx00b5de)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 2 || 25 || 7
|
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Gauntlets.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Gauntlets}} {{ID|(xx01a51f)}} || Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 1.5 || 25 || 8
|
*One set can be looted off the [[Skyrim:Traveler|Traveler]] when encountered.
*One set can be found in [[Skyrim:Castle Volkihar#Volkihar Undercroft|Volkihar Undercroft]]
*One set can be found in [[Skyrim:Volkihar_Keep|Volkihar Keep]]
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-Vampire Boots.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Boots}} {{ID|(xx019ae1)}} || Clothing
| Not possible
| 1 || 2 || 0
|
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-Vampire Gloves.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Gloves}} {{ID|(xx019ae3)}} || Clothing
| Not possible
| 0.5 || 1 || 0
|
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-Vampire Hood.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Hood}} {{ID|(xx019ade)}} || Clothing
| Not possible
| 0.5 || 1 || 0
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Royal Armor (m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Royal Armor xx00b5db (f).png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Lord Armor}} {{ID|(xx011a84)}} || Clothing
| Not possible
| 1 || 250 || 0
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-clothing-Vampire Robes (m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-clothing-Vampire Robes (f).png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Robes}} {{ID|(xx019adf)}} || Clothing
| Not possible
| 1 || 5 || 0
|
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Royal Armor (m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Royal Armor xx00b5db (f).png|48px]] [[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Royal Armor (m).png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-Vampire Royal Armor xx0194c5 (f).png|48px]]
| {{LE|Vampire Royal Armor}} {{ID|(xx00b5db) (Red)}} {{ID|(xx0194c5) (Valerica)}} {{ID|(xx011a85) (Vampire Lord)}}|| Light Armor
| [[Skyrim:Leather|Leather]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Advanced Armors|Advanced]]
| 9 || 655 || 30
| Magicka regenerates 125% faster.
*Only the first version {{ID|(xx00b5db)}} can be tempered
*The third version {{ID|(xx011a85)}} cannot be worn by the player
|}

====Gallery====
;Male
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Vampire Armor Male 01.jpg|Vampire Armor (Gray)
File:SR-item-Vampire Armor Male 02.jpg|Vampire Armor (Light Gray)
File:SR-item-Vampire Armor Male 03.jpg|Vampire Armor (Red)
File:SR-item-Vampire Royal Armor Male.jpg|Vampire Royal Armor
File:SR-item-Vampire Robes Male.jpg|Vampire Robes
</gallery>
;Female
<gallery>
File:SR-item-Vampire Armor Female 01.jpg|Vampire Armor (Gray)
File:SR-item-Vampire Armor Female 02.jpg|Vampire Armor (Light Gray)
File:SR-item-Vampire Armor Female 03.jpg|Vampire Armor (Red)
File:SR-item-Vampire Royal Armor Female 01.jpg|Vampire Royal Armor
File:SR-item-Vampire Royal Armor Female 02.jpg|Vampire Royal Armor (Valerica)
File:SR-item-Vampire Robes Female.jpg|Vampire Robes
</gallery>

==Other Weapons==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
![[Skyrim:Grindstone|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon small.png|Damage]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Akaviri Sword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Akaviri Sword}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx014555)}}
| Not possible
| 10 || 300 || 11 ||
* Only carried by [[Skyrim:Dexion Evicus|Dexion Evicus]]. Can be obtained by pickpocketing him if you have the [[Skyrim:Pickpocket#Misdirection|Misdirection]] perk, or by placing a weapon with a higher base damage in his inventory through pickpocketing, then reloading the area by leaving and entering it again. This will cause him to unequip the Akaviri sword in favor of the placed weapon, allowing you to then pickpocket the Akaviri sword without the Misdirection perk.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Fork.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Fork}}{{Intnote|type|†}} {{ID|(0001f25b)}}
| Not possible
| 0.5 || 5 || 1 ||
* Cutlery found on tables, but can also be used as a weapon.
* Can be found at [[Skyrim:Throat of the World|Throat of the World]].
* Can be found outside [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]], at the balcony of [[Skyrim:Honeyside|Honeyside]] after the player has purchased the porch upgrade.
* {{HF}} Can be found on a table in the [[Skyrim:Construction|player-built]] [[Skyrim:Small House Layout|Small House]].
* {{HF}} Can be found in a bin atop the "Desk" furnishing option of the back room on the first level of the player-built [[Skyrim:Main Hall#Main Hall: First Level.2C North Room|Main Hall]].
|-
|rowspan=4|[[File:SR-icon-weapon-Giant Club.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Frost Giant Club}} {{DG}} {{ID|(xx012d14)}}
| Not possible
| 18 || 598 || 80 ||
* Club used by [[Skyrim:Frost Giant|Frost Giant]]s.
* Can only be equipped by player using the console.
* ''Target takes 20 points of frost damage to Health and Stamina:''
** [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|Frost Damage]], 20 pts
** [[Skyrim:Slow|Slow]], 50 pts for 3 secs
**Charge/Cost=Uses: 3000/29=103
|-
| {{LE|Giant Club}} {{ID|(000cdec9)}}
| Not possible
| 18 || 1 || 5
|rowspan=3|
* Clubs used by [[Skyrim:Giant|Giants]].
* (<code>000461da</code>) has a power that varies based on character level at the time of cell entry. At least one club exists that, when highlighted, shows the stats of the club like any other generic item. It can be picked up and equipped by followers only, but can only be removed by use of the [[Skyrim:Console|console]]!
* (<code>000c334f</code>) is enchanted:
:''Absorb 15 points of stamina:''
:*[[Skyrim:Absorb Stamina|Absorb Stamina]], 15 pts for 1 sec
:*Charge/Cost=Uses: 2000/29=68
:* Disenchant: No
|-
| {{LE|Giant Club}} {{ID|(000461da)}}
| Not possible
| 18 || 1 || ''var.''
|-
| {{LE|Giant Club}} {{ID|(000c334f)}}
| Not possible
| 18 || 800 || 40
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Headsman'sAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Headsman's Axe}}{{Intnote|headsman|‡}} {{ID|(000be25e)}}
| Not possible
| 11 || 15 || 17 ||
* Large axe used by [[Skyrim:Headsman|executioners]], including the potential follower [[Skyrim:Ahtar|Ahtar]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Knife.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Knife}}{{Intnote|type|†}} {{ID|(0001f25a)}}
| Not possible
| 0.5 || 1 || 2 ||
* Cutlery found on tables, but can also be used as a weapon.
* Can be found at [[Skyrim:East Empire Company Warehouse|East Empire Company Warehouse]] and [[Skyrim:Throat of the World|Throat of the World]].
* Can be found outside [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]], at the balcony of [[Skyrim:Honeyside|Honeyside]] after you've purchased the porch upgrade.
* {{HF}} Can be found in a bin atop the "Desk" furnishing option of the back room on the first level of the player-built [[Skyrim:Main Hall#Main Hall: First Level.2C North Room|Main Hall]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Pickaxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Pickaxe}} {{ID|(000e3c16)}}
| Not possible
| 10 || 5 || 5 ||
* Necessary for [[Skyrim:Mining|mining]] veins and obtaining ore. You can actually make any follower force dual wield, by giving them a pickaxe.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Woodcutter'sAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Poacher's Axe}} {{ID|(000ae086)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]] (req. [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane]]); perk: none
| 10|| 31 || 5 ||
* Can be used for [[Skyrim:Chop Wood|chopping wood]] and is enchanted: 
''3 points of extra damage to Animals''
* Disenchant: Yes
* Can be looted off one of the [[Skyrim:Bandit|bandits]] encountered in the interior area of [[Skyrim:Halted Stream Camp|Halted Stream Camp]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Scimitar.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Scimitar}} {{ID|(0007a91a)}}
| [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]; perk: [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel]]
| 10 || 5 || 11 ||
*Curved sword carried by [[Skyrim:Kematu|Kematu]] and [[Skyrim:Alik'r Warrior|Alik'r warriors]].
*Can be found under an upturned canoe on the coastline west of [[Skyrim:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]].
*Also carried by sailors on the [[Skyrim:Dainty Sload|Dainty Sload]].
*[[Skyrim:Velehk Sain|Velehk Sain]] and [[Skyrim:Rayya|Housecarl Rayya]]{{HF}} also carry two of them.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Woodcutter'sAxe.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Woodcutter's Axe}}{{Intnote|type|†}}{{Intnote|woodcutter|¥}} {{ID|(0002f2f4)}}
| Not possible
| 10 || 5 || 5 ||
* Necessary for [[Skyrim:Chop Wood|chopping wood]].
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-weapon-Wooden Sword.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Wooden Sword}}{{HF}} {{ID|(xx004D91)}}
| [[Skyrim:Firewood|Firewood]]; perk: none
| 3 || 25 || 2 ||
*One-handed weapon, can be used by player or given as a gift to [[Skyrim:Child#Adoption|adopted]] children.
* Sold by general goods [[Skyrim:Merchants|merchants]] and [[Skyrim:Khajiit Traders|Khajiit traders]].
|}
{{Note|type|†|Because of the way this weapon is classified in game data, its damage in combat is not affected by either the One-handed or Two-handed skills or their respective perks.}}
{{Note|headsman|‡|{{Bug|Despite being a two-handed weapon, the Headsman's Axe was classified as a War Axe in older patches, meaning that its damage was controlled by your One-handed skill and by war axe-related perks such as [[Skyrim:Hack and Slash|Hack and Slash]].|nobullet=yes|OSP|1.5}}}}
{{Note|woodcutter|¥|{{xbox22}}{{Bug|If you place a Woodcutter's Axe on a sword mount it will appear floating in your house instead of on the rack.|confirmed=1|nobullet=yes}}}}

==Other Apparel==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!class=unsortable width=96|
!Name ([[Skyrim:Form ID|ID]])
!Type
![[Skyrim:Workbench|Tempering]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBRatingIcon_small.png|Rating]]
!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-Dovahcore Helmet.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Dovahcore Helmet}} {{ID|(xx003321)}}
| Heavy Helmet
| [[Skyrim:Refined Moonstone|Refined Moonstone]] (req. [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane]]); perk: none
| 5 || 512 || 15
|
* Added by [[Skyrim:Fall of the Space Core, Vol 1|Fall of the Space Core, Vol 1]].
* Can be created at the [[Skyrim:Atronach Forge|Atronach Forge]].
|-
|{{AL|C}}| [[File:SR-icon-armor-FineArmguards.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Fine Armguards}} {{ID|(00086990)}}
| Light Gauntlets
| Not possible
| 0.5 || 25 || 7
|
* Identified internally as Jarl's gloves.
*These are technically Light Armor, but because they do not have the ArmorLight keyword, you can wear them without disabling the [[Skyrim:Mage Armor|Mage Armor]] perk.
|-
| [[File:SR-icon-armor-GildedWristguards.png|48px]][[File:SR-icon-armor-Nightingale Gloves.png|48px]]
| {{LE|Gilded Wristguards}} {{ID|(000e84c1)}}
| Light Gauntlets
| Not possible
| 0.5 || 21 || 7
|
* Identified internally as Jarl's gloves.
*A pair can be found in the Emperor's ship cabin during the [[Skyrim:Hail Sithis!|Hail Sithis!]] quest.
{{Bug|Looks the same as the [[Skyrim:Nightingale Gloves|Nightingale Gloves]] in the inventory for females.|USKP|1.2.2}}
|}

Lore:Miraak

2013-05-16T19:40:34Z

Kimi the Elf: remove extra </noinclude>

<noinclude>{{Lore People Trail}}{{Lore People Summary
|race=Nord
|gender=Male
|title=
|birth=Merethic Era
|birthLoc=
|death=4E 201
|deathLoc=Apocrypha
|loc=Solstheim
|loc2=Apocrypha
|appears=[[DB:Miraak (NPC)|Dragonborn]]
|image=DB-npc-Miraak_03.jpg
|imgdesc=as seen in Dragonborn}}</noinclude>
: ''Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be.'' - Miraak's Chant{{ref|name=Dragonborn|Events of [[Dragonborn:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}}
{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Dragonborn|'''Miraak''' is the primary antagonist of the [[Dragonborn:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] expansion for [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]]|{{Lore Link|Miraak}}, which means "allegiance guide" in the [[Lore:Dragon Language|dragon language]], was originally a {{Lore Link|Dragon Priest}} in the {{Lore Link|Merethic Era}}}}. He was the first [[Lore:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]],{{ref|name=Dragonborn}} although that term would not become used until after the time of [[Lore:Alessia|St. Alessia]], the next known Dragonborn recorded in history.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}}{{ref|name=TBOTD|{{Cite book|The Book of the Dragonborn}}}} He ruled over the island of {{Lore Link|Solstheim}}, where a large temple was dedicated to him.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}}

He served as a leader of the [[Lore:Dragon Cult|Dragon Cult]] and possessed a [[Lore:Dragon Priest Masks|Dragon Priest Mask]] called [[Lore:Dragon Priest Masks#Miraak|Miraak]], given to him by the dragons. At some point, he sought out [[Lore:Black Books|the teachings]] of {{Lore Link|Hermaeus Mora}}, the Demon of Knowledge, and became his champion. Hermaeus Mora taught Miraak the power to bend the will of dragons.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}}{{ref|name=Mora|[[DB:Hermaeus Mora|Hermaeus Mora's]] dialogue in [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]]}} Using this knowledge and his innate ability to devour the souls of dragonkind, he turned on his winged overlords and killed a great number of them.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}} Following this, dragons razed his temple in retaliation.{{ref|name=Frea|[[DB:Frea|Frea's]] dialogue in [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]]}}{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Dragonborn| Hermaeus Mora protected his new champion, though Miraak became trapped in the Daedric Prince's realm.}} <includeonly>For more information, see the [[Lore:Miraak|lore article]].</includeonly><noinclude>

During the {{Lore Link|Dragon War}}, {{Lore Link|Hakon One-Eye}} and others sought him out, desperate for a strong ally in their fight against {{Lore Link|Alduin}}. Miraak, though apparently confident that he could defeat Alduin if he so chose, refused to help, leaving mankind to their own fate.{{ref|name=Miraak|[[DB:Miraak (NPC)|Miraak's]] dialogue in [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}}

{{Lore Link|Skaal}} legend remembers Miraak as "the Traitor", and recounts how he plotted against the dragons with Hermaeus Mora. Another Dragon Priest, {{Lore Link|Vahlok the Jailor}} (known as "the Guardian" to the native Skaal), uncovered this deception, and the two engaged in a duel so vicious and destructive that the modern island of Solstheim was ripped from the mainland of [[Lore:Skyrim|Skyrim]].{{ref|name=TGATT|{{Cite book|The Guardian and the Traitor}}}}{{ref|name=Tharstan|[[DB:Tharstan|Tharstan's]] dialogue in [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}} Vahlok defeated Miraak, but just as he prepared to deliver the killing blow, Hermaeus Mora snatched away and saved his champion.{{ref|name=TGATT}}

Miraak was not seen or heard from again for many ages;{{ref|name=TGATT}} he evidently spent all of this time in {{Lore Link|Apocrypha}}, Hermaeus Mora's realm. Though he essentially became imprisoned there, Miraak spent his time gathering knowledge and power with the goal of freeing himself from Hermaeus Mora's service.{{ref|name=Miraak}}

It wasn't until {{Year|4E 201}} that Miraak was able to use arcane magical powers to overtly influence the people of Solstheim, making them unknowingly work for him around the island, such as by rebuilding his temple, while they slept. They also worked on building additions to the Stones of Power on the island, additions apparently meant to assist in his return by harnessing the energy of the stones. Others came to worship Miraak more consciously, and formed a cult dedicated to him.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}}

Miraak's plan became threatened by the advent of the [[Lore:Hero|Last Dragonborn]], and cultists were sent to track down and kill this "False Dragonborn".{{ref|name=CO|{{Cite book|Cultists' Orders|ns=Dragonborn}}}} The Last Dragonborn responded to this antagonism by journeying to Solstheim, where the hero sought out and used the hidden knowledge of Hermaeus Mora to thwart Miraak's efforts on {{Lore Link|Tamriel}}, journey into Apocrypha, and confront him in battle. When it was clear that Miraak would lose, Mora dealt him a fatal blow, thus killing the First Dragonborn.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}}

==See Also==
* For game-specific information, see the [[Dragonborn:Miraak (NPC)|Dragonborn article]].

==References==
<references/></noinclude>

UESPWiki:Featured Images

2013-05-06T06:46:24Z

Kimi the Elf: /* File:OB-creature-Umaril the Unfeathered.jpg */ Oppose

{{UESPWiki Trail}}__NEWSECTIONLINK__ __NOTOC__ [[File:Featured_star.png|50px|left]] '''Featured images''' follow the same nomination process as for [[UESPWiki:Featured Articles|Featured Articles]], but as they appear in a different section of the main page, a separate series of [[#Nominations and Votes|votes]] is held to decide which images meet the required standard.

For an image to be eligible for Featured status, it must be used in a UESP article. This is to prevent specially-taken beauty shots from stealing the limelight.

A gallery of older Featured Images can be found [[/Old FIs|here]]. Similarly, the archives of previous nominations can be found [[/Past Nominations|here]]. Note that not all failed nominations are included.

__TOC__
==Featured Image Process==
===Nomination===
Any registered member can nominate any image at any time. Nominated images should be of high quality and meet the site's [[Help:Images#Image_Standards|image standards]].

To nominate an image, list it on the bottom of this page with a three-tier heading, <tt>(<code>===Example===</code>)</tt>, and briefly explain why you think the image should be given featured status.

===Voting===
After an image has been nominated, any registered member can vote to '''support''' or '''oppose''' each nomination. Each member can only vote once for a given image, but a member may change his/her vote by striking out the original vote and replacing it with the revised vote.

To vote on an image, state whether you '''support''' or '''oppose''' the image for featured image status. A vote should be in bold, and all votes must be signed. For example: 
<code><nowiki>* '''Support''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or'' 
<code><nowiki>* '''Oppose''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code>

Commenting with your vote is optional, but if you '''oppose''' a nomination, please state how the image must be improved to get your support for featured status.

If you are not yet ready to vote but would still like to add your thoughts, you may use:

<code><nowiki>* '''Comment''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or'' 
<code><nowiki>* '''Question''': <Question> --~~~~</nowiki></code>

And fill in your concerns or questions.

===Decisions===
UESP [[UESPWiki:Administrators|Administrators]] will periodically make decisions on image nominations. Decisions will only be made if:
* The image has been nominated for more than seven days.
* Five or more votes have been placed.
* A clear consensus has been reached (either '''supported''' or '''opposed''' for featured status).

Nominations not meeting these criteria will be left open until a decision can be reached.

Images whose nominations pass will receive featured image status on the front page for two weeks (which may be extended up to one month if there is a shortage of images), and receive a small bronze star ([[File:Featured_star.png|15px]]) on the top right corner. If an image achieves featured status before the present featured image's time expires, it must wait its turn.

==Current Featured Image==
[[File:SR-quest-Kindred Judgment.jpg|SR-quest-Kindred Judgment.jpg|thumb|left|<center>'''[[Skyrim:Kindred Judgment|Kindred Judgment]]'''</center>]]
{{NewLine}}
From 5 May 2013
===Next===
*[[:File:OB-creature-Brown Bear 02.jpg|Brown Bear]] (OB)
*[[:File:SR-quest-Missing In Action.jpg|Missing In Action]] (SR)
*[[:File:SR-creature-Pack Member 01.jpg|Pack Member]] (SR)
*[[:File:SR-creature-Grok.jpg|Grok]] (SR)
*[[:File:SR-npc-Azura_01.jpg|Azura]] (SR)
*[[:File:SR-creature-Werewolf 02.jpg|Werewolf]] (SR)
*[[:File:SR-quest-Coated in Blood.jpg|Coated in Blood]] (SR)
*[[:File:SR-quest-The Cursed Tribe 02.jpg|The Cursed Tribe]] (SR)
*[[:File:SR-creature-Sabre_Cat.jpg|Sabre Cat]] (SR)

==Nominations and Votes==
===[[:File:SI-npc-Knight of Order.jpg]]===
[[File:SI-npc-Knight of Order.jpg|thumb|right]]
This great image shows the perfect combat stance for such a powerful character.

*'''Support''': as nominator [[User:Tiberseptim2|Tiberseptim2]] [[User Talk:Tiberseptim2|talk]] 23:22, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

*'''Oppose''': My first thought was "Meh...", followed by "ehh...", and finishing with "nah". It's not a bad image, just unremarkable, IMO. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 04:39, 4 May 2013 (GMT)

*'''Oppose''': Low resolution and some ugly plant life make this an "oppose" for me. --'''''[[User:Halfstache|HalfStache]]''''' 04:41, 4 May 2013 (GMT)

*'''Oppose''': While I sort of like the plant life and the background, the resolution makes the image not up to par for FI, IMO. --[[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 04:44, 4 May 2013 (GMT)

*'''Oppose''': Per Xyzzy. It's pretty unremarkable, and is rather low resolution. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 06:06, 4 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''Reply''': Thanks guys I understand. Anyone know any good Shivering Isles images? {{uns|Tiberseptim2}}
:*'''Comment''': This isn't a forum; please limit comments to the nomination. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 06:02, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''<s>Comment<s>''': If it were perhaps brighter, higher resolution, more interesting, etc. then it would have my vote. Shame, I kinda hoped this image would be better because I kinda like it...--[[User:WoahBro|WoahBro]] ([[User talk:WoahBro|talk]]) 13:23, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
::'''Comment''' yes I know bright vibrant colors are great but this is demetia, couldn't find one in mania.
:::'''Comment''': Ignoring the whole nomination itself for obvious reasons, I just wanted to point out that vibrant and colorful + Order = complete opposites, which would be ridiculous ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 20:32, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
::::'''Very Slight Support''': That is very true, Dwarfmp. Maybe if there was more sunlight/light in general, this picture would be better. Regardless, I still like it because it is different.--[[User:WoahBro|WoahBro]] ([[User talk:WoahBro|talk]]) 20:38, 5 May 2013 (GMT)

===[[:File:OB-creature-Umaril the Unfeathered.jpg]]===
[[File:OB-creature-Umaril the Unfeathered.jpg|thumb|right]]
An image of one of the ultimate evil bosses.
*'''Support''': This show the perfect close full body shot of Umaril in the ultimate Background. {{uns|Tiberseptim2|05:58, 5 May 2013}}
*'''Oppose''': I like the main part of the image, the character, but it is a bit pixelated around the edges. Aside from that however, it is the background that really sways me from a support. It's just too dang bland. --'''''[[User:Halfstache|HalfStache]]''''' 16:01, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''Oppose''': Eh, cool lookin' dude, but dat background doe...it's just plain and there's nothing that can be done.--[[User:WoahBro|WoahBro]] ([[User talk:WoahBro|talk]]) 20:34, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''Oppose''': Its not a bad image but its not exactly special either, its a bit boring actually. Also as a creature image the size should probably be 1:1 [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 06:46, 6 May 2013 (GMT)
{{newline}}

===[[:File:SI-creature-Grummite (Mania).jpg]]===
[[File:SI-creature-Grummite (Mania).jpg|thumb|right]]
One of my favorite creature shots.
*'''Support''': As nominator. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 06:07, 5 May 2013 (GMT)

*'''Support'''': Absolutely beautiful! Perfect daylight, high textured grummet and on the perfect angle.TiberSeptim2
*'''Neutral''': I find myself liking the image as a whole, but there was something about it that I didn't like. It took me a little bit to figure it out, but the lack of any special pose really turns me off towards this image. --'''''[[User:Halfstache|HalfStache]]''''' 16:01, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''Oppose''': It's not that this is a genuinely bad picture, it just isn't striking to me. I don't really like how the far side of the Grummite almost blends into the background, but that could just be me.--[[User:WoahBro|WoahBro]] ([[User talk:WoahBro|talk]]) 20:34, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
{{newline}}
===[[:File:SI-quest-A Door in Niben Bay.jpg]]===
[[File:SI-quest-A Door in Niben Bay.jpg|thumb|right]]
Dwarf found the perfect angle to show off one of the cooler designs in all the Oblivion content.
*'''Support''': As nominator. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 06:07, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''Support''': I'm not a big Oblivion fan, but I really like this image. Not much more to say other than to mention that [[Shivering:A Door in Niben Bay]] may have all of its images be FI's soon. --'''''[[User:Halfstache|HalfStache]]''''' 16:01, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Cool image. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 16:11, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''Support''':Nice image although I would prefer it more if the people weren't in it. --[[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 16:17, 5 May 2013 (GMT)
*'''Slight Support''': There's nothing phenomenal about this picture, but I do like it. That view is just plain BA. {{uns|WoahBro}}
{{newline}}
===[[:File:SI-Gatekeeper Ritual.jpg]]===
[[File:SI-Gatekeeper Ritual.jpg|thumb|right]]
This time I'm more sure that this is what we are looking for. A nice angled shot of a npc and the middle of
The ritual with light contrasting with the dark. enough said. thanks! {{uns|Tiberseptim2}}
*'''Oppose''': I feel that it lacks a certain pizzazz. It also tends to fall into the trap which I feel many OB images fall into, which is a sort of monotone blandness. Yes, the nice effects are nice, but they really don't do as much as I would like, because they aren't awesome and amazing. The other thing that I don't like about this picture is the way that Relmyna contrasts so much with the rest of the image. Yesyesyes, contrast is great, I know, I get it. But it is NOT great when it forces the focus to something which should not be the main focus. I feel that her mere existance in this image subtracts from the rest of it by distracting from the bigger event going on. --'''''[[User:Halfstache|HalfStache]]''''' 05:27, 6 May 2013 (GMT)
{{newline}}

User talk:Kimi the Elf

2013-05-06T04:17:32Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Cormelik the Elder */ reply

Lore:People C

2013-05-06T04:00:51Z

Kimi the Elf: /* {{Linkable Entry|Cormelik the Elder}} (?b - ?d) */ ref

{{Lore People Trail|C}}

===={{Linkable Entry|Calaxes Septim}} (?b - {{Year|3E 398}})====
A bastard son of Emperor [[Lore:Uriel Septim VII|Uriel Septim VII]], given the Archbishopric of The One in the Church of the {{Lore Link|Nine Divines}}. During Calaxes' reign as Archbishop, tensions grew between himself and the Emperor due to Calaxes' views on the secularity of government, and the Emperor's legislation to limit the Church's authority. Rumors grew that Calaxes was advocating a rebellion to establish a theocracy, and soon afterwards he was assassinated on the 29th of Sun's Dusk {{Year|3E 398}}, in the {{Lore Link|Temple of the One}}, supposedly by the Imperial Guard, because of the threat he represented.{{ref|name=WAP|{{Cite book|Words and Philosophy}}}}

===={{Linkable Entry|Calcelmo of Markarth}} (?b - ?d)====
{{Lore:Calcelmo of Markarth}}

===={{Linkable Entry|Calixto Corrium}} (?b - {{Year|4E 201}})====
{{Lore:Calixto Corrium}}

====King {{Linkable Entry|Camaron|Cameron}} ({{Year|3E 368}} - {{Year|3E 403}})====
[[File:DF-SS-Camaron.gif|right|thumb|King Camaron]]
Camaron (or Cameron), King of [[Lore:Sentinel|Sentinel]], was born in {{Year|3E 368}}. Husband to Queen [[Lore:Akorithi|Akorithi]], father of [[Lore:Aubk-i|Aubk-i]] in {{Year|3E 386}}, [[Lore:Greklith|Greklith]] in {{Year|3E 392}}, and [[Lore:Lhotun|Lhotun]] in {{Year|3E 393}}.{{ref|name=DM|Daggerfall Manual}} He died at the Battle of [[Lore:Cryngaine Field|Cryngaine Field]] in {{Year|3E 403}}, killed in a duel with [[Lore:Gothryd|Gothryd]] of [[Lore:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]] that ended the [[Lore:War of Betony|War of Betony]].{{ref|name=FWOB|{{Cite book|Fav'te's War Of Betony}}}}

====King {{Linkable Entry|Camoran Anaxemes}} (?b - ?d)====
A [[Lore:Bosmer|Bosmer]] king of [[Lore:Valenwood|Valenwood]] during the formation of the {{Lore Link|Aldmeri Dominion}} in {{Year|2E 830}}.{{ref|name=PGE1Ald|{{Cite book|PGE|1|Aldmeri Dominion}}}}

====Queen {{Linkable Entry|Carolyna}} ({{Year|3E 368}} - {{Year|3E 392}})====
Queen of Wayrest, wife of [[Lore:Eadwyre|King Eadwyre]]. Mother to [[Lore:Elysana|Elysana]] in {{Year|3E 389}}.{{ref|name=DM}}

====Emperor {{Linkable Entry|Cassynder}} (?b - {{Year|3E 202}})====
When Cassynder became Emperor at the death of his mother, [[Lore:Katariah|Empress Katariah]], in {{Year|3E 200}},{{ref|name=TTET|{{Cite book|The Third Era Timeline}}}} he was already middle-aged.{{ref|name=BHOTE2|{{Cite book|Brief History of the Empire v 2}}}} Only half-elven, he aged like a {{Lore Link|Breton}} (like his father, {{Lore Link|Pelagius Septim III}}).{{ref|name=BHOTE2}}{{ref|name=TMOP|{{Cite book|The Madness of Pelagius}}}}{{ref|name=Skyrim|Events of [[SR:Skyrim|Skyrim]]}} In fact, he had left the rule of Wayrest to his half-brother Uriel due to poor health. Nevertheless, as the only true blood relation of [[Lore:Pelagius Septim|Pelagius]], and thus [[Lore:Tiber Septim|Tiber Septim]], he was pressed into accepting the throne. His rule was a short as he died after only two years on the throne in {{Year|3E 202}} which was assumed by his half-brother, [[Lore:Uriel Septim IV|Uriel Lariat (Uriel IV)]].{{ref|name=BHOTE2}}

==== {{Linkable Entry|Cassyr}} Whitley (?b - ?d)====
A character in the popular historical fiction ''{{Lore Link|2920, The Last Year of the First Era}}'', it's unknown if he was an historical figure. According to the novels, he was a {{Lore Link|Breton}} who spied for [[Lore:Vivec (god)|Vivec]] in {{Year|1E 2920}} during the [[Lore:Four-Score War|Four-Score War]], but made a bad assumption and gained a bad reputation across the continent as a terrible spy. He hated Vivec for that and, in an act of revenge lied, to the mighty witch [[Lore:Turala|Turala]] about her child's killers in order to make her summon [[Lore:Mehrunes Dagon|Mehrunes Dagon]] and destroy [[Lore:Mournhold|Old Mournhold]].

====Empress {{Linkable Entry|Caula Voria}} (3E?b - ?d)====
The wife of [[Lore:Uriel Septim VII|Uriel Septim VII]] who bore him his three legitimate sons, Princes [[Lore:Geldall Septim|Geldall]], [[Lore:Enman Septim|Enman]] and [[Lore:Ebel Septim|Ebel]]. One source suggests that she died a short time after the birth of their third child, some time between {{Year|3E 380}} and {{Year|3E 382}},{{ref|name=PGE3C|{{Cite book|PGE|3|Cyrodiil}}}} while another indicates she was still alive after the [[Lore:Imperial Simulacrum|Imperial Simulacrum]], and so must still have been alive at least in the early years of the [[Lore:Third Era|Third Era]]'s Fifth Century.{{ref|name=Ass!|{{Cite book|Assassination!|ns=Oblivion}}}} She was called a beautiful and charming woman who was greatly loved and admired by the people. However, she was also called a deeply unpleasant, arrogant, ambitious, grasping woman who "snared" Uriel VII with her feminine wiles, and he eventually regretted his mistake. They ultimately held a great deal of animosity for each other, presumably to the detriment of their children.{{ref|name=ALOUS7|{{Cite book|A Life of Uriel Septim VII}}}}

===={{Linkable Entry|Celarus}}, Lore Master (?b - ?d)====
Leader of the [[Lore:Psijic Order|Psijics]] for at least 290 years as of {{Year|3E 400}}{{ref|name=FOA|{{Cite book|Fragment: On Artaeum}}}}{{ref|name=TDOO|{{Cite book|The Doors of Oblivion}}}} ([[Lore:The Wolf Queen|Waughin Jarth]] has him as the leader of the Psijic Order as far as at least {{Year|3E 110}}). He was the author of ''{{Lore Link|The Old Ways}}''. ''{{Lore Link|Response to Bero's Speech}}'' mentions a sage by the name of Celarus, though it's unclear if they're the same person.

====Emperor {{Linkable Entry|Cephorus I|Cephorus}} (?b - {{Year|3E 140}})====
Son of [[Lore:Pelagius Septim II|Emperor Pelagius II]], brother to [[Lore:Potema|Potema]], [[Lore:Magnus Septim|Magnus]], and [[Lore:Antiochus|Antiochus]]. He was involved in the War of the Red Diamond in {{Year|3E 121}}. After capturing and the subsequent death of [[Lore:Uriel Septim III|Emperor Uriel III]] at the {{Lore Link|Battle of Ichidag}} in {{Year|3E 127}} he continued on to the {{Lore Link|Imperial Palace}} and was crowned Emperor. Cephorus' reign is marked by nothing but war. By all accounts, he was a kind and intelligent man, but what Tamriel needed was a great warrior, and that he was. It still took an additional ten years of constant warfare for him to defeat his sister Potema. Cephorus died in {{Year|3E 140}}.{{ref|name=BHOTE2}} Sources seem to differ on whether and when he married. [[Lore:Brief History of the Empire v 2|Brief History of the Empire]] claims he never married during the many years he spent at war. The historical fiction ''[[Lore:The Wolf Queen, v5|The Wolf Queen]]'' suggests he eventually took a wife, a {{Lore Link|Redguard}} named Bianki, with whom he ruled {{Lore Link|Gilane}}, {{Lore Link|Hammerfell}}. ''[[Lore:The Madness of Pelagius|The Madness of Pelagius]]'' states that he never married and died childless.

====Emperor {{Linkable Entry|Cephorus II}} (?b - ?d)====
Cephorus II was chosen as emperor by vote of the {{Lore Link|Elder Council}} in {{Year|3E 247}}, since he was a cousin more closely related to the original [[Lore:Tiber Septim|Septim]] line than was Emperor [[Lore:Uriel Lariat|Uriel IV's]] son, [[Lore:Andorak|Andorak]]. For the first nine years of Cephorus II's reign, those loyal to Andorak battled the Imperial forces. Of course, Cephorus II had foes that demanded more of his attention than Andorak. "From out of a cimmerian nightmare", in the words of [[Lore:Eraintine|Eraintine]], a man known as the [[Lore:Camoran Usurper|Camoran Usurper]] (rumored to be a {{Lore Link|lich}}) had led an army of {{Lore Link|daedra}} and undead warriors on a rampage through [[Lore:Valenwood|Valenwood]] and beyond, conquering kingdom after kingdom. None could resist his onslaughts, and as month turned to bloody month, fewer even tried. Cephorus II sent more and more mercenaries into [[Lore:Hammerfell|Hammerfell]] to stop the Usurper's northward march, but they were bribed, turned into undead, or slaughtered. In short, the destruction of the forces of the Usurper had little do with efforts of the Emperor. The result was a great regional victory and an increase in hostility toward the seemingly ineffective {{Lore Link|Empire}}.{{ref|name=BHOTE3|{{Cite book|Brief History of the Empire v 3}}}} Rebellions started under his reign would continue for decades.{{ref|name=BHOTE4|{{Cite book|Brief History of the Empire v 4}}}} His reign ended in {{Year|3E 268}}.{{ref|name=TTET|{{Cite book|The Third Era Timeline}}}} Emperors before him had "revered" {{Lore Link|Breton}}s, but Cephorus was a {{Lore Link|Nord}} with [[Lore:Skyrim|Skyrim]] and [[Lore:Morrowind|Morrowind]], which irked the common man in {{Lore Link|High Rock}}.{{ref|name=TFOTU|{{Cite book|The Fall of the Usurper}}}}

===={{LE|Cherim}} (?b - ?d)====
Cherim was a famous [[Lore:Khajiit|Khajiiti]] tapestry maker who lived in [[Lore:Orcrest|Orcrest]] during the late [[Lore:Third Era|Third Era]]. At the height of his success he had four factories creating replicas of his works and his originals were sold for extraordinary prices. ''{{Lore Link|Cherim's Heart of Anequina}}'' records his interview with [[Lore:Books by Author#Livillus Perus|Livillus Perus]], where he discussed one of his first tapestries, the Heart of Anequina, depicting Cherim's involvement in the [[Lore:Heart of Anequina|Heart of Anequina]] during the [[Lore:Five Year War|Five Year War]].

===={{Linkable Entry|Cicero}} (?b - ?d)====
{{Lore:Cicero}}

===={{Linkable Entry|Corda}} (?b - ?d)====
A character from the popular historical fiction ''{{Lore Link|2920, The Last Year of the First Era}}'', whether she was an actual historical figure is unknown. She was depicted as {{Lore Link|Redguard}} {{Lore Link|Morag Tong}} assassin from {{Lore Link|Hegathe}}, {{Lore Link|Hammerfell}} (but widely known as an initiate of the Morwha conservatorium). Corda's sister, Rijja was executed by her former lover {{Lore Link|Reman III}} in {{Year|1E 2920}}. After her sister's execution, Corda became his next lover but she killed him as an act of revenge at the very end of the year. After that she was sent by the {{Lore Link|Night Mother}} to Vounoura, an island for Morag Tong assassins who became too famous to continue their crusade.

===={{Linkable Entry|Cormelik the Elder}} (?b - ?d)====
A man who prophesied all of the returning points of {{Lore Link|Auriel's Shield}}. He and his followers were unable to obtain it themselves. His knowledge of the location was later used by the [[Lore:Hero|Eternal Champion]] who was able to enter and retrieve Auriel's Shield.{{ref|name=Arena|Events of [[Arena:Arena|Arena]]}}

====Count {{Linkable Entry|Csaran}} (?b - ?d)====
Of the {{Lore Link|Shivering Isles}}, Count Csaran of {{Lore Link|Vitharn}} was a second generation Lord of Vitharn, the son Count Vitharn and Countess Mawean; he had one sibling: his sister, Nweala. When he ascended to the throne, he seemed a normal, competent ruler, and came to marry Sheen-in-Glade, an equally put-together wife to the count. However, his infidelity eventually caused Sheen-in-Glade to snap, and they began to sleep with one another less often (the only son Sheen-in-Glade bore disappeared from the Shivering Isles in his twentieth year). Csaran entered a physical relationship with his sister, Nweala, and sired a single son -- the heir apparent, Cesrien.{{ref|name=FOV|{{Cite book|Fall of Vitharn}}}}

====Emperor {{Linkable Entry|Cuhlecain}}, the Emperor Zero (?b - {{Year|2E 854}})====
A petty king of the {{Lore Link|Colovia|Colovian Estates}} of [[Lore:Cyrodiil|Cyrodiil]], he attacked and captured the [[Lore:Imperial City|Imperial City]] to proclaim himself Emperor. He was assassinated in {{Year|2E 854}} by a [[Lore:High Rock|High Rock]] nightblade. His death led to the crowning of [[Lore:Tiber Septim|General Talos]], later known as Tiber Septim, who subsequently waged the [[Lore:Tiber Wars|Tiber Wars]] to create the [[Lore:Third Empire|Third Empire]] of Tamriel. Talos later honored him by founding the [[Lore:Cult of Emperor Zero|Cult of Emperor Zero]] to worship him.{{ref|name=PGE1C|{{Cite book|PGE|1|Cyrodiil}}}} Some think Tiber Septim murdered him.{{ref|name=TAH|{{Cite book|The Arcturian Heresy}}}}

===={{Linkable Entry|Cuilean Darnizhaan}} (?b - ?d)====
Known for saying, "The power of ignorance can truly shatter mithril like [[Lore:Malachite|glass]]".{{ref|name=TOW|{{Cite book|The Old Ways}}}}

===={{Linkable Entry|Cyril Vinticae}} (?b - ?d)====
The governor of [[Lore:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]] when it was besieged by the glacier tribes. Responsible for banishing the town's four champions, rightfully suspecting that one was a traitor in league with the tribes.{{ref|name=Dawnstar|Events of [[Dawnstar:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]]}}

===={{Linkable Entry|Cyrus}} ({{Year|2E 839}} - ?d)====
[[Image:RG-npc-Cyrus.gif|right|thumb|Cyrus as seen in Redguard]] A [[Lore:Redguard|Redguard]] [[Lore:Hero|hero]] of the rebellion on the Island of [[Lore:Stros M'Kai|Stros M'Kai]] in 2E 864 along with his sister [[Lore:Iszara|Iszara]]. The rebellion crushed the Imperial presence on the island, and Cyrus killed the provisional governor [[Lore:Amiel Richton|Amiel Richton]], which led the way to a peace treaty more favorable to [[Lore:Hammerfell|Hammerfell]].{{ref|name=Redguard|Events of [[Redguard:Redguard|Redguard]]}}

==References==
<references/>

File:User-Foxxsnsuch-476931 640672722626596 1436440339 o.jpg

2013-04-25T21:44:52Z

Kimi the Elf: :Category:User Images

== Licensing ==
{{Cc-by-2.5}}
[[Category:User Images]]

File:User-Foxxsnsuch-400681 247113925429429 1782831871 n.jpg

2013-04-25T21:36:23Z

Kimi the Elf: :Category:User Images

== Summary ==
my girlfriend and i at fanexpo
== Licensing ==
{{Cc-by-2.5}}
[[Category:User Images]]

File:User-Foxxsnsuch-Tumblr mha9xbPF3B1rzd425o1 500.jpg

2013-04-25T21:35:44Z

Kimi the Elf: :Category:User Images

== Summary ==
Foxxsnsuch
== Licensing ==
{{Cc-by-2.5}}
[[Category:User Images]]

File:User-Foxxsnsuch-391086 247742798699875 1580837451 n.jpg

2013-04-25T21:35:41Z

Kimi the Elf: :Category:User Images

== Summary ==
Foxxsnsuch @ Fan Expo Convention
== Licensing ==
{{Cc-by-2.5}}
[[Category:User Images]]

Category:Archive-Forum

2013-04-21T05:58:25Z

Kimi the Elf: Undo revision 1176590 by 95.52.73.190 (talk) - spam

Archived discussions about the UESP's '''[[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]]'''.
[[Category:Archive|Forum]]

User talk:Kimi the Elf

2013-04-19T01:05:18Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Lore:Altmer names - Arena AND Daggerfall? */ +

User talk:Kimi the Elf

2013-04-19T00:50:38Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Lore:Altmer names - Arena AND Daggerfall? */ reply

<center>
{| style="border: 1px solid magenta; background: Black; width: 20%;"
|-
| style="border: 1px solid magenta;" align="center" | [[User talk:Kimi the Elf/Archives|Archives]] || style="border: 1px solid magenta;" align="center" | [[User talk:Kimi the Elf/Rewards|Rewards]]
|}
</center>

== Thank You ==

Thanks for {{Pl|Skyrim:Vyrthur|diff=1007728&oldid=1007726|this fix}}. I was caught up in editing the list and didn't clue in that I was restoring an undesirable redirect. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 19:54, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

:Its okies, an easy mistake to make! ^_^ [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 20:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

== Thanks! ==

For that shot of Serana and Vyrthur. When that scene ran for me my character was between them giving me a very weird perspective and unsure just what the heck was going on. {{uns2|20:11, 5 September 2012‎|Sniffles}}

== Image resolution ==

Hi, my images seem to get tagged a lot for proper image resolution. How do I convert it to 4:3 size. My screen resolution is 1920 x 1080, so I don't know how to convert it to the 4:3 size without it ending up a very small image. Any image editing advice you can give me? — [[User:Kunvulonin|Kunvulonin]][[User_talk:Kunvulonin|Künvülänin]] 01:01, 14 September 2012 (GMT)

:If you're on Windows (odds are yes), you can just open up Paint, set the canvas size to 1440x1080, copy the picture (by right-clicking on it), and then paste it into Paint, moving it around as you wish. (These instructions might be slightly off, because I'm not a Linux user). If you're on a different operating system, then you can use GIMP, which takes slightly longer but is still entirely manageable. Also, make sure that the picture's file format is .jpg. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 01:05, 14 September 2012 (GMT)

::Thanks for the tip! I used Paint. I fixed the issue with the current image that I uploaded. Thanks again. — [[User:Kunvulonin|Kunvulonin]][[User_talk:Kunvulonin|Künvülänin]] 01:16, 14 September 2012 (GMT)

== Gilded Wristguards vs. Nightingale Gloves ==

I noticed you put these icons up on [[Skyrim:Specialty_Gear#Other_Apparel]]. Near as I can tell, the two graphics are identical, except yours is slightly higher resolution. Is there really a visible difference between male and female for this item? Or should one of the two images be deleted? (And which one? I'd say mine probably, because it's smaller.) But I can't see any difference at all between them, and as it is now it implies that they are gender-specific or something. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:20, 4 October 2012 (GMT)

:Not sure why they both look the same for you, the one i added was completely different. For females it just shows the Nightingale Gloves image but for males it shows the correct Gilded Wristguards icon which is gold with circles on it. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 02:24, 4 October 2012 (GMT)

::Ah, caching issue. Hard-refresh fixed it. Carry on. (Never occurred to me to even check anything but the full-body apparel for gender-specific variants. I didn't even think about those until I hit [[:File:SR-icon-armor-GlassArmor(f).png|Glass Armor]] with my female character, which is pretty obvious, and suddenly realized my job had potentially doubled in size... Much more subtle differences with hoods, boots and gloves.) [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:50, 4 October 2012 (GMT)

:::Incidentally, thanks for helping with the [[Skyrim:Clothing|laundry]], I'll take care of the [[Skyrim:Miscellaneous_Items#Dishes_and_Tableware|dishes]] tomorrow. We're also missing books (and book-like items such as reports and notes). And I think that pretty much covers everything, though some could use improvements - the [[:Category:Skyrim-Icons-Ingredients|Ingredient icons]] are all pretty small, for example (also inconsistently named - that might be a bot-job though). And I'm not crazy about the grey background on the [[:Category:Skyrim-Icons-Spells|Spell icons]]. (Reminds me we're also missing Shouts.) Anything else you can think of? [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:36, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

::::The [[Skyrim:Unique Items|Unique Items]] page could do with icons. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 21:38, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

:::::I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure most if not all of those use generic icons, which should already be uploaded. Just a matter of figuring out which ones to use. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 22:28, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

::::::Clearly, I stand corrected. (Forgot about the glow-effect on enchanted items.) Also, a fair number of them have unique appearances. By the definition used in previous games, that would generally make them artifacts, but I don't know if that really works here. Anyhow, weapons (mostly) done, not counting Dawnguard stuff and things that don't appear in inventory. I've got the screenshots for the apparel, at least for my female character (will have to see if anything is different for males) I'll be doing those tomorrow. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 03:26, 7 October 2012 (GMT)

== Skyrim Ingredient Icons ==

I saw you did a couple of them. Were you going to finish doing these? Or do you want me to take over? [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 22:51, 27 October 2012 (GMT)

:I'm not sure when I will get the time to finish them, so if you want to do them you can! ^_^ [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 19:12, 28 October 2012 (GMT)

::Okay. I think you've got a higher screen resolution than me, as I tried using one of yours ([[:File:SR-icon-ingredient-Abecean Longfin.png]]) as a template for all the other fish, but it's too big and doesn't line up. I'm hardware-bound on this one (laptop), so there's not much that can be done about that. Just if I do the icons, they'll be slightly smaller than if you do them. Which I guess is no big deal since it's still much larger than the 48px thumbnails we're using, but I didn't want to do a bunch of work if you were just going to redo them with your own at higher res. (I may still need someone to step in for the plug-in items - or one of these days maybe I'll buy them myself, but can't do those right now.) [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 04:58, 29 October 2012 (GMT)

:::I have done the ingredients plug-in items. I have also done the plug-in icons for the books, most of them used old icons so there is only 2 new icons, I got them to display fine on the individual pages but some of them don't display right on the [[Skyrim:Books|Books]] page? Did I add them wrong? [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 11:48, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

::::I think they're correct. The template is weird in that it doesn't show up right away. You can either wait a while, or you can get them to show up sooner if you first purge all the book pages you added images to and then purge the list page. I just tried on a couple of them, and it fixed them. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:43, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

::::Addendum: If you put the icon on the Lore page for the book, you have to purge the Lore page, then the gamespace page, and then the list page. And sometimes even that doesn't work right away. One reason among many that I switched to putting the icons on the gamespace pages instead of the Lore pages. Not only do the icons show up faster, but it just makes more sense having all game-specific information like icons only on the gamespace pages. The "Book of Life and Services" icon still isn't showing for me on the main page even after the purging ritual, but I'll give it some time and try again later. If that doesn't work, we can just add the icon to the gamespace page. (I'll eventually be removing all icons specified in Lore space, since they don't show up there anyhow and it complicates the loading process so much.) [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:49, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

:::::Alright, waiting all day didn't fix it so I looked into it and the actual problem is that in order for the icon to work from the Lore page, it must have the exact same name as the gamespace page. In this case, [[Lore:Book of Life and Service]] is not the same as [[Skyrim:The Book of Life and Service|Skyrim:'''The''' Book of Life and Service]]. Likewise for [[Lore:Touching the Sky]] and [[Skyrim:Touching the Sky (book)]]. You can get around that using the "Lorepage" parameter, but again, more trouble than it's worth when you can just specify the icon on the gamespace pages instead and not have to worry about any of that. I fixed these two, and if any more ever come up (e.g. in Dragonborn or other future DLCs), just remember to put the icon on the gamespace page, and don't bother with the Lore page. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 01:33, 3 November 2012 (GMT)

== Felsaad Tern Feathers ==

They aren't? According to the CK, the model is Clutter\Ingredients\HawkFeather01.nif, which is the exact same model as Hawk Feathers. What is the model then? If this isn't it? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 03:58, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

:[[:File:SR-icon-ingredient-Hawk Feathers.png|Hawk Feathers]] and [[:File:DB-icon-ingredient-Felsaad Tern Feathers.png|Felsaad Tern Feathers]]. I didnt check the CK but ingame they are different colours. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 04:10, 8 February 2013 (GMT)
::Fascinating... I wonder why the CK is showing the icons as being the same.... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 04:10, 8 February 2013 (GMT)
:::There can be different textures for the same object within the same file, so objects that have the exact same shape, like the feathers, can have different surface appearances. Don't ask me more than that, though...there ends my knowledge of NIF files. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 23:06, 8 February 2013 (GMT)
::::If you click the edit button for the Model in the CK, you will see that the Felsaad Tern Feathers pass a texture set parameter to the nif, to customize them. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 23:10, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

== Cabbage Soup ==

Hey Kimi. Since you seem to be the one making Dragonborn icons, would you mind making one for [[Skyrim:Cabbage Soup|Cabbage Soup]]? I believe it has a new texture. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 02:37, 10 February 2013 (GMT)
:Also, it seems there is no icon for [[Skyrim:Mage Robes|Mage Robes]]. No idea how that got missed :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 02:51, 10 February 2013 (GMT)
::Okies done both of them ^_^ As far as I can see that's all the icons finished but if I missed any just let me know! [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 02:57, 10 February 2013 (GMT)

== Nightmaster Vampire ==

Do you recall how you created [[:File:SR-npc-Nightmaster Vampire.jpg|this image]]? Did you find the vampire, or did you spawn her in? Apparently, female Nightmasters [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Vampire&diff=next&oldid=1120568 aren't encountered] usually. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:25, 10 February 2013 (GMT)

:I think I spawned both the dawnguard vampire images. I did not know nightmaster vampires are only male, I can redo the image later tonight if needed. ^_^ [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 19:42, 10 February 2013 (GMT)

:: Sounds good. Eshe has all the correct IDs up at [[Skyrim:Vampire]]. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 19:45, 10 February 2013 (GMT)

== IRC ==

I know this might not be the right method to suggest this but you should really get back on the IRC :D [[User:Lord Eydvar|Lord Eydvar]] [[User Talk:Lord Eydvar|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lord Eydvar|Contribs]] 08:15, 24 February 2013 (GMT)

== Arrovan ==

Hey Kimi, do you have a reference for [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Lore%3ASkeleton_Key&diff=1166090&oldid=1161734 this edit]? I can't seem to find anything about Arrovan outside of TIL. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:42, 10 April 2013 (GMT)

:''"The <Random Place> had a visitor, a foreign scholar tracing the history of Arrovan, the thief who wielded the Skeleton's Key. Apparently, Arrovan stole some stuff from the royal family here in <Random Place>."''

:''"I don't know if I believe it, but there's a gentleman in <Random Inn> who says he knows how to find the magical key of Arrovan, the master thief. He wants money for the information - a lot of money - but if you'd like to be able to break into anything you might want to head to the <Random Inn> and talk to him."''

:''"Ah, yes, my purse likes the sound of that. You'll find the Skeleton's Key in a particularly unpleasant dungeon. Of course, no one except a few know where it is, for the Key always chooses inaccessible places to hide. For benefit of the historians, the first holder of the Key, Arrovan, made a map to each of the Key's resting places, but for many years no one could find this one. My contacts say the map is in a place called the <Random Dungeon>. I have inscribed the location onto your map of the continent. I must leave you. Good luck, my friend..."''

:It comes from Arena during the quest to find the Skeleton Key. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 18:10, 10 April 2013 (GMT)

:: Thanks. Odd that we don't have that on the wiki. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 18:28, 11 April 2013 (GMT)

== Lore:Altmer names - Arena AND Daggerfall? ==

Hi! If I read the edit history correctly, you're the one who added the random generator from Arena to the Lore:Altmer names page? Thanks for this - but why "and Daggerfall"?? Have you ever managed to encounter a randomly generated Altmer NPC in Daggerfall? I know I haven't in all the years of playing it. Neither does Daggerfall Imaging ( I'd insert a link, but this wiki seems to hate them, so unfortunately you have to google it if you don't yet use it ) reveal any random generated NPC sprites that could be identified as Altmer or any other Mer, for that reason. For what I know, TESII:Daggerfall only randomly generated the native population (Breton and Redguard), though some of the townie sprites are identified as Nords in the resource files, according to Daggerfall Imaging.

Do you happen to have any other sources on this, or would it be safe to remove the "and Daggerfall" bit from the headings etc?

Regards,

Mustakettu {{Uns2| 21:57, 18 April 2013‎|79.104.6.107}}

:The link ( http://www.dfworkshop.net/?cat=10 ), was blocked because it is unrecognized as a valid link. The line "If you believe this edit to be constructive, you may click Submit again to confirm it." means that all you had to do was click "save" again and it would have displayed. All I'm going to say is that the wiki has been plagued by so much spam that blocking unrecognized links (and asking humans to resubmit) has become a necessity. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:04, 18 April 2013 (GMT)

::The names used in Daggerfall are the same names used for Arena. So the names are in the Daggerfall files, but if they are used or not I have no idea. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 00:50, 19 April 2013 (GMT)

User talk:2.28.195.58

2013-04-18T16:23:11Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Warning */ new section

== Warning ==

{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense or obscenities to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this IP address will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 16:23, 18 April 2013 (GMT)}}

Skyrim:Fortify Smithing

2013-04-18T16:22:11Z

Kimi the Elf: Undo revision 1174867 by 2.28.195.58 (talk) - vandal

{{Effect Summary
|image=SR-icon-spell-Magic Hat.png
|school=Restoration
|type=Defensive
|alchid=0003eb1d
|alchcost=0.75
|alchsyntax=For <dur> seconds, weapon and armor improving is <mag>% better.
|enchid=0007a102
|enchcost=24
|enchitem=Neck, Chest, Arms, Finger
|enchsyntax=Weapons and armor can be improved <mag>% better.
|avail=[[Skyrim:Generic Magic Apparel#Fortify Smithing|Apparel]] [[Skyrim:Potions#Fortify Smithing|Built-In Potions]]
|alchdur=30
|alchmag=4
}}
'''Fortify Smithing''' increases your [[Skyrim:Smithing|Smithing]] [[Skyrim:Skills|skill]].

==Alchemy==
The following alchemy ingredients can be used to create a potion of Fortify Smithing:
* [[Skyrim:Blisterwort|Blisterwort]]
* [[Skyrim:Glowing Mushroom|Glowing Mushroom]]
* [[Skyrim:Sabre Cat Tooth|Sabre Cat Tooth]]
* [[Skyrim:Spriggan Sap|Spriggan Sap]]

==Enchanting==
The following items use this effect. You can learn how to enchant custom items with Fortify Smithing if you find one of the following items and disenchant it:
* All varieties of Bracers/Gauntlet, Necklaces, and rings ''[[Skyrim:Generic Magic Apparel#Fortify Smithing|of Smithing]]''
** Includes the enchantments ''of Minor Smithing'', ''of Major Smithing'', ''of Extreme Smithing'', ''of Eminent Smithing'' and ''of Peerless Smithing.''
* [[Skyrim:Silver-Blood Family Ring|Silver-Blood Family Ring]]
* [[Skyrim:The Forgemaster's Fingers (item)|The Forgemaster's Fingers]]

==Items to Enchant==
The Fortify Smithing effect can be applied to the following items:
* Chest pieces
* Necklaces
* Gauntlets
* Rings

==See Also==
* [[Skyrim:Smithing Expertise|Smithing Expertise]]

{{Skyrim Restoration Effects}}

User:Cardboard Box

2013-04-18T14:46:07Z

Kimi the Elf: Undo revision 1174837 by 198.200.37.51 (talk) - Spam

The Reverend Cardboard Box is a thirty-five year old [[http://www.subgenius.com SubGenius]], obviously, who skulks obscenely in New Zealand and sits at his computer performing the usual devotions to the holy trinity (porn, gaming and blog-hopping).

He currently has a house/quest mod, [[http://www.breakthinktank.com/cgi-bin/btt.pl?morrowind/varlninya Varlninya]], available at his website, the [[http://www.breakthinktank.com BreakThink Tank]].

He does not suffer idiots, impulse posters, spammers, humans, Pinks, ConDupes, Mediocretins, Cage Dwellers, Sames, Normals, Barbies, Kens, Mall Zombies, Herd Followers, Technoboredom, THEM, Supersonic Aluminum Nazi Hell Creatures From the Center of the Hollow Earth, religio-political fanatics or pop culture gladly.

Skyrim:PlayStation

2013-04-18T12:45:36Z

Kimi the Elf: Undo revision 1174794 by 74.209.214.8 (talk) - vandal?

{{Trail}}{{TOCright}}
The purpose of this page is to document some aspects of Skyrim that are specific to the '''Playstation 3''' version of the game. The vast majority of gameplay is identical on all platforms (PC, Xbox 360, or PS3): the quests are the same, the [[Skyrim:Glitches|glitches]] are the same with exception to lag issues being less prevalent on PC. One difference during gameplay is that reaching certain milestones will unlock Trophies; these are listed at [[Skyrim:Achievements|Achievements]].

The PS3 version of the game has some issues with lag (loading), although most of this was rectified with version 1.4 of the [[Skyrim:Patch|Official Skyrim Patch]]. It was widely reported on Bethsoft's Official Forums and across a large number of reputable Gaming Websites, IGN, Gamespot, CVG, etc, that the lag problem was bad enough to "stop or badly affect gameplay" with a large number of players save games becoming frozen upon loading, as well as a whole host of other bugs and issues both pre-existing and caused by the patches made to the game. Bethesda stated that patch 1.2 would focus on these performance problems, but the patch didn't help at all. Afterwards, Bethesda stated that patch 1.4 would get rid of the PS3 lag.

Patch version 1.5 introduced a major game-crashing glitch connected with the improved water shaders. After installation of the patch, any attempt to go underwater would result in the game crashing. The solution to this is to delete all Skyrim data (Update and Game) in the Game Data Utility. This does not affect or include your save game data. Then reinstall the game data and then the patch updates. The glitch is only present if, when updating, you have not yet downloaded patch 1.5.

==[[Skyrim:Patch|Patches]]==
Major changes with patches are noted here. They are listed in reverse order as it is not possible to use a previous update once the next one is released and downloaded.

=====[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.9|Version 1.9]]=====
Released on 8 April 2013 (identified as 2.09 while downloading).

* Legendary difficulty setting.
* Legendary Skills.
* General memory and stability improvements.
* Fixed a number of quest and item bugs.
* Companions will equip better weapons and armor if given to them.

=====[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.8|Version 1.8]]=====
Released in English-speaking territories on 11 February 2013.

* Adds a "Downloadable Content" section to the in-game load menu.
* General memory and stability improvements.
* Fixed rare crash when using vampiric grip.

=====[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.7|Version 1.7]]=====
Released on the 9th August 2012, to North American users, and the 27th August 2012 in Europe.

*[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.6|Version 1.6]], including Mounted Combat.
*General memory and stability optimizations.
*Fixed crash related to new water shaders.
*Fixed rare crash related to dragon landings.

=====[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.5|Version 1.5]]=====
Released on the 5th April 2012.

*New cinematic kill moves for ranged weapons and spells.
*Improved visual transition when going underwater. There is a major problem related to the underwater fix, the game would freeze any time you attempted to go underwater.
**To solve this issue you need to delete your Update and Game Data in the Game Data Utility; then redownload the Update and reinstall the Game Data. '''Game Data is not your Save Data''', your progress is safe.

=====[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.4|Version 1.4]]=====
Released on 9th February 2012.

*Some people have reported the lag issue has been much improved, however, others have reported no change.

=====[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.3|Version 1.3]]=====
Released on 15th December 2011.

*Fixed issues introduced by version 1.2
*Some "General Stability Improvements"
=====[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.2|Version 1.2]]=====
Released on 28th November 2011.

*Fixed issues related to having a large amount of in-game "Days Passed".
*Dragon corpses disappear correctly.
*The now infamous backwards flying Dragons appeared.
*Caused resistances to not calculate correctly and therefore have no effect.
*Scripts causing Treasure Map chests to appear do not work.

=====[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.1|Version 1.1]]=====
Released on 11th November 2011 (same day as game release).

*Minor issues with the released game corrected.

==Missing PC Features==
Some of the PC features that are not available on the PS3 are:
* The [[Skyrim:Console|console]]. This means that PC bug fixes on articles are not available to PS3 players. It also means that most cheats and exploits are not available.
* The [[Skyrim:Creation Kit|creation kit]]. The construction set does not directly affect game play; rather it allows the game files to be viewed and edited. A lot of the information on the Wiki is derived from the creation kit, because it allows the factors controlling game play to be easily identified. However [[UESPWiki:CSList|CSList]], a tool to display game data is provided by the site and available for viewing for technically inclined users.

==Interface Differences==
Although the keyboard and PS3 controller clearly provide very different methods of interacting with the game, most of the controls work the same way. Some differences, however, include:
* On the PS3 there is no way to toggle [[Skyrim:Controls#Automove|Automove]].
** Walking vs running is controlled by how far forward you push the left thumbstick. Slight motions of the thumbstick will cause your character to walk; pushing the thumbstick as far as it will go will cause your character to go faster and by holding down L2 will make your character run. (This is most obvious if you use [[Skyrim:Controls#Change View|third-person view]]).
* The Quick Save and Quick Load shortcuts are not available; save and load are only accessible through the [[Skyrim:Controls#Open Journal|Menu]] options.

==Downloadable Content==
[[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard]] was released on the PS3 on February 26, 2013 in the United States and February 27, 2013 for English speaking areas. [[Skyrim:Hearthfire|Hearthfire]] was released on the PS3 on February 19, 2013 for the United States and February 20, 2013 for English speaking areas. [[Dragonborn:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] released on the Playstation 3 on February 12, 2013 to the United States, and February 13, 2013 to English-speaking European territories.

Skyrim:The Pale Blade

2013-04-18T11:44:35Z

Kimi the Elf: Correct Enchantment

<noinclude>{{DEFAULTSORT:Pale Blade, The}}{{Trail|Items|Leveled Items}} [[Category:Skyrim-Weapons-Swords]]</noinclude>{{Artifact Summary
|PageName=The Pale Blade
|ArtifactType=Leveled Item
|MaxLevel=27
|Speed=0.8
|Reach=1.0
|Damage=11
|Weight=15
|Value=914
|Charge=3000/65=46
|Enchant=''Targets take 25 points of frost damage and 50 points of Stamina damage. Weaker creatures and people flee for 30 seconds:''
* [[Skyrim:Fear (effect)|Fear]], 16 pts for 30 secs
* [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|Frost Damage]], 25 pts
|Type=[[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]] [[Skyrim:Sword|Sword]]
|ObjectID=000f5d2d
|EditorID=dunFrostmereCryptPaleBlade05
|image=SR-item-The Pale Blade.jpg
|Tempering=[[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|Steel Ingot]]
|Perk=[[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel Smithing]]
}}
[[Skyrim:The Pale Blade|The Pale Blade]] is a sword rewarded to the player for completing [[Skyrim:The Pale Lady|The Pale Lady]]. The sword's enchantment causes instantaneous [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|frost damage]], and also inflicts its target with [[Skyrim:Fear (effect)|fear]] for thirty seconds. [[Skyrim:Grindstone|Tempering]] the Pale Blade requires one [[Skyrim:Steel Ingot|steel ingot]] and the [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane Blacksmith]] perk, with the benefits of tempering being doubled by the [[Skyrim:Steel Smithing|Steel Smithing]] perk.<includeonly>

For more information, including leveled statistics, see [[Skyrim:The Pale Blade|The Pale Blade]] article.</includeonly>
<noinclude>
The sword is not to be confused with the ''Blade of the Pale'', which is the reward for becoming [[SR:Thane of the Pale|Thane of the Pale]].

{{NewLeft}}
==Related Quests==
*{{Quest Link|The Pale Lady}}

==Notes==
*The stamina damage effect on this weapon is actually the standard "half the frost damage", but the descriptions incorrectly list it as double.

==Leveled Statistics==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Level
!width=22|[[Image:OBWeightIcon_small.png|Weight]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBValueIcon_small.png|Value]]
!width=22|[[Image:OBDamageIcon_small.png|Damage]]
!Charge/Cost = Uses
!Enchantment
![[Skyrim:Form ID|Object ID]]
!Editor ID
|-
| 1-5
| 12
| 169
| 8
| 250/13=19
| ''Targets take 5 points of frost damage and 10 points of Stamina damage. Weaker creatures and people flee for 30 seconds:''
* [[Skyrim:Fear (effect)|Fear]], 5 pts for 30 secs
* [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|Frost Damage]], 5 pts
|000d37ce
|dunFrostmereCryptPaleBlade01
|-
| 6-11
| 12
| 286
| 8
| 500/24=20
| ''Targets take 10 points of frost damage and 20 points of Stamina damage. Weaker creatures and people flee for 30 seconds:''
* [[Skyrim:Fear (effect)|Fear]], 7 pts for 30 secs
* [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|Frost Damage]], 10 pts
|000f5d2a
|dunFrostmereCryptPaleBlade02
|-
| 12-18
| 12
| 452
| 8
| 1000/37=27
| ''Targets take 15 points of frost damage and 30 points of Stamina damage. Weaker creatures and people flee for 30 seconds:''
* [[Skyrim:Fear (effect)|Fear]], 10 pts for 30 secs
* [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|Frost Damage]], 15 pts
|000f5d2b
|dunFrostmereCryptPaleBlade03
|-
| 19-26
| 15
| 667
| 11
| 2000/49=40
| ''Targets take 20 points of frost damage and 40 points of Stamina damage. Weaker creatures and people flee for 30 seconds:''
* [[Skyrim:Fear (effect)|Fear]], 12 pts for 30 secs
* [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|Frost Damage]], 20 pts
|000f5d2c
|dunFrostmereCryptPaleBlade04
|-
| 27+
| 15
| 914
| 11
| 3000/65=46
| ''Targets take 25 points of frost damage and 50 points of Stamina damage. Weaker creatures and people flee for 30 seconds:''
* [[Skyrim:Fear (effect)|Fear]], 16 pts for 30 secs
* [[Skyrim:Frost Damage|Frost Damage]], 25 pts
|000f5d2d
|dunFrostmereCryptPaleBlade05
|}
</noinclude>

User talk:TheRealLurlock

2013-04-17T11:44:47Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Happy Birthday! */ ^_^

{|style=float:right class=toc
!colspan=9|Archives
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!colspan=3 {{C|5}}2006!!{{C|5}}2007!!{{C|5}}2008!!colspan=3 {{C|5}}2009-2011!!{{C|5}}2012
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[[User talk:TheRealLurlock/2006 11|November]] 
[[User talk:TheRealLurlock/2006 12|December]] 
|-
!colspan=9|[[User talk:TheRealLurlock/Cookie Jar|Cookie Jar]] 
|}

== Question ==

Hey Lurlock! I have a question – is it possible to extract the logo for the College of Winterhold (as seen [[:File:SR-faction-College_of_Winterhold.jpg|here]]) from the game files? Like an icon of sorts? The bigger, the better, of course. Thanks in advance! --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 04:52, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

:From the looks of it, that seems to be modeled geometry, rather than just a texture, so I'd say likely not in this case, though it's possible they did something fancy with normal mapping - I haven't looked too closely at the Skyrim game files. (The icons I did were just screenshots from the game against a black background.) Though it might be simple enough to just trace it and make it whatever size we want. What were you looking for, just black against transparent? [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 14:17, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

:: Hello again! [[User:JR|JR]] suddenly sent me an old file with the logo and I photoshopped it to death. The end result is [[:File:SR-icon-College.png|here]] - and I think it's okay for now. We tried the game files and they are more or less hopeless in png... --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 23:22, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

== Loading Screen Models ==

Hey TRL, I know you and Kimi (who hasn't been especially active lately) have been the ones to upload most of the icons for Skyrim, and I thought I'd point out [[Skyrim_talk:Loading_Screens#loading_screen_3D_models|this discussion]] in case you have input and/or feel like taking on the task. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 15:40, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

== Messages ==

Hey Lurlock! I just saw what you did with the Messages page, and I'm thinking there has to be a better way. The H1s are definitely less confusing (having H3s act as higher level headers than the H2s that are now included with the messages was just...odd), but the H1s don't look that great either. The easiest fix is obviously to take the headers back off the message pages, but what if we could have it both ways? I'm thinking some <nowiki>{{#if:</nowiki> magic might do it. Thoughts? '''⇠'''[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 15:12, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

:Yeah, I just wasn't sure if that would fly on these messages, which are subst'ed as far as I know. One alternative would be to simply change all the messages to use H3's. It's not like anybody looks at these for the most part. (Why we insist on putting blocked messages on spammer talk pages at all is a mystery to me - the bots aren't going to see them or care.) It could do with some testing. If an #if statement works with a subst'ed message, I'd say we should do it. I'm just not sure if they work that way or not. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:26, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

::Hmm...I'm not sure if it'll work with the substitution or not. I'll check it out when I get some time. Thanks! '''⇠'''[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 17:13, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

:::So... it works, but it leaves the #ifeq junk in there, and makes the section not editable. I don't know if that's a big deal or not, but it does seem to be an improvement... [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 17:17, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

::::What I've got now in [[User:RobinHood70/Zain]] seems to do what you want, but I have a mental block when it comes to substitution, so I may have overcomplicated it. Have a look, and feel free to simplify it if I have, or copy it to the actual Block templates. Oh and if you're wondering just what the hell all that code actually is, don't look at me! I got it from [[wikipedia:Help:Substitution]], and I'm not entirely sure I understand it myself. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:46, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

:::::Nope. It's pretty much the same as just using #ifeq. The code stays on the page, and the section is un-editable. Problem as I see it is it's not really a #subst in the general sense so much as it just literally copies everything into the edit window. Not sure how to get around that. I'd like to be able to just click the block button and save, without the extra step of having to copy the word "Blocked" into the subject line. Seems to me there should be a way to do that - maybe using a sub-template of some kind? One template having just the warning message itself (which is transcluded onto the messages page), and the other having both the header, and a #subst of the message template. That might be the way to go actually... [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 23:46, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

::::::Haha! That does work. Only problem is you can't preview (and thus change) the message before posting it. If you want to try it out yourself before we implement it on all of them, please do so. I think this might be a valid way to go. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 23:54, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

:::::::That was actually going to be my next suggestion, but I wasn't sure if it was worth the trouble. I'll take your word for it that it works, cuz I have a bunch of RL things I need to go do right now. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 00:16, 16 January 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} On a related subject, did you see [[UESPWiki_talk:Messages#Plagiarism_Advice_Notice|this]]. If you agree, could you work your magic to add this to the messages page. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:10, 17 January 2013 (GMT)

:So I kind of floated away from this discussion as my classes started up, sorry! Anyway, the changes seem okay, but would it be possible to make ''all'' the messages editable when you're posting them, like the Welcome message is now? Currently I either have to copy/paste from the template itself or go back and edit it after the page is saved, otherwise my signature is all fubar. It also makes it a bit difficult to customize the message (I typically like to add block times and such when applicable) before posting it, which is something we've always encouraged. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 15:35, 29 January 2013 (GMT)

::The Welcome message is the same as it ever was - you'll notice you still have to put a header on manually for that one (or any of the "Notice" ones.) Unfortunately, I don't see any way of having it both ways - either you have to manually add the header, or you can't edit the message until afterwards. What we ''could'' do is add a new block message which is customizable like they used to be, but you'd still need to add the header yourself. 99% of the time, there's no need for this, as most of our blocks are indefinite blocks on spammers, so the boilerplate form letter is good enough. (It's not like anybody is likely to ever look at those anyhow.) I think overall, the method that saves work in 99% of use cases is preferable. But if you really want, we can add a customizable one for the rare cases where you need it. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 23:35, 29 January 2013 (GMT)

:::Hmm...in that case, I guess what I'm saying is I'd rather have to add the header manually than go back later to fix my signature. I wouldn't even raise the issue except that I'm pretty sure the people who use the warnings and block notices the most have custom sigs and are running into this problem. It's not a big deal ultimately...it just seems to be adding a step to what (for me) used to be a very quick process. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 15:50, 30 January 2013 (GMT)
::::I would have to agree with Eshe here. It's not just the signature either, sometimes all you want to change is one or two words, and the extra steps of finding the template and copying from there seem much more bothersome than simply writing the header in yourself. Writing the header in yourself isn't really a problem that's difficult or takes a lot of time to do. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 15:54, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

:::::Well, I added in the custom messages for those cases. I'm just trying to make it so that these spammer-block messages, which represent by far the vast majority of cases, are easier. You might have to go to a little extra effort in those rare instances when a customized message is needed, but this is almost never the case, so overall, this method saves the most work. The only other somewhat-common use-case I can see are temporary blocks put in by Blockers who can't do a full block. Maybe we could put in another message specifically for them, and that would cover all but the most extremely rare cases, which could then use the custom messages I've put in place. And since in that case, the only thing that would be variable would be the time of expiration, that field could be added as a parameter to the subst'ed template, so you could enter it in while you're giving the block message, no need to change anything else... [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:37, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

::::::Okay, I've put an adjustable temporary block message template in place, does that work for people? I'm not sure what problem could occur with the custom signatures - I've used one forever and it works fine in block messages. Does it somehow fail if you try to do fancy stuff in the signature? That sounds to me like a problem with the signature more than anything else. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:51, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

:::::::The temporary block message is a really nice addition, thanks for that. If the whole point of these changes is to make the spammer-block messages easier, can we change the warning messages back to how they used to be? That way, the block messages would be faster/easier like you want, which is the reason for the changes made, and the warnings could still be customized easily like before. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 19:20, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

::::::::Sure, that's reasonable, I guess. I wish the InputBox plugin had the option to specify a header ([http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:InputBox I looked it up, it doesn't.]) - then we wouldn't have to jump hoops like this to make things work. Really, I'm considering removing the Block Messages from the [[UESPWiki:Messages]] page anyhow. When you block somebody, you automatically get another screen with Block Messages to choose from. You'd pretty much never need to go to the Messages page to find a Block Message unless you screwed up somehow. Though I suppose leaving them there makes it easier to edit them. But if we just as a general policy make it so that Block Messages default to boilerplate and not shown on the Messages page, while all others are more easily editable, and are shown there, it'd be more consistent. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 01:08, 31 January 2013 (GMT)
{{od}}That sounds like a good idea to me, especially given the reason you mentioned. Since you automatically get the screen with Block Messages after blocking someone, there's not a large need for them to be on the regular Messages page. I'd agree with that change being made. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 01:14, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

:Alright, so, I'm totally fine with the block messages not being on the messages page, but would it be possible to change the block messages back to being editable too? Those are the ones I use most of the time. Thanks! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 14:41, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

::Honestly, how often do you need to edit them? I did put a custom editable message on there for those rare cases, but I think for the vast majority of blocks, there should be no need to edit the message. I'll agree it's less than ideal. I'd prefer it if we could somehow fix the InputBox plugin to place the headers automatically. The other possibility - and I'm all for this one - is that we eliminate the requirement for block messages to have a header section. I mean, really, there's no benefit to it in most cases as those messages will never be seen by the blocked user anyhow, since they're pretty much all spambots. If we stop insisting that block messages have their own section with a header, it eliminates the need for these templates to be subst'ed in the first place and we can go back to the way things were before. In the rare instance where you're blocking somebody who ''isn't'' just another spambot, then you can add a header if you really want, but that happens so infrequently it's not that big a deal. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 22:15, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

:::Honestly, it's almost every day. I go through at least one spammer a day, on average, and with my signature it looks weird. Whether or not block messages need headers is debatable, I suppose, but the old version ''didn't'' have automatic headers, didn't conflict with custom signatures, and didn't need to be substituted. I don't see much point fussing over it though, so I've just removed the offending dashes and we can call it a compromise ;). ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 00:25, 13 February 2013 (GMT)

::::Oh, I was wondering how these were messing up your signature. I get it now - that's actually a good change I think. Should probably do them all like that for consistency. I was thinking you were making some kind of edits to the message itself, which seems unnecessary. Anyhow, worrying about how a block message looks to a spammer who will probably never see it seems like it shouldn't be that big a deal. I was just trying to figure out how this was causing you problems. I think this change should reduce the amount of effort required by everyone when dealing with spam. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 01:30, 13 February 2013 (GMT)

== Marker IDs ==

In case you didn't know, adding a marker id adds a location to the Places Discoverable category. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 04:30, 18 January 2013 (GMT)

:Ugh, sometimes I think these uber-templates do a little bit too much automatically. Oh well, it just so happens I just created this nice template for just such a purpose. Works nicely here. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 04:35, 18 January 2013 (GMT)

== Future RPG ==

I hope you are lucky with your RPG, maybe I will play it - hopefully, don't fill me in with everything, but where did you get your inspiration? :D

[[User:AlphaArgonian182|AlphaArgonian182]] 13:27, 20 January 2013 (GMT)

P.S I have no intentions of stealing your ideas, I am awful with games technology design!

:It's far too big a project for me to describe it all here, but it's (very) loosely based on Greek mythology, most notably the legend of King Midas, and basically what happens after his death (which doesn't take long since everything he touches turns to gold, including food and drinks.) The twist is that the curse doesn't even end on his death - even touching his corpse turns things to gold, and after finally burying him in the ground (no easy task because he had to be carried without being touched), the whole earth is starting to turn into gold as well. It deals with, among other things, the complete devaluation of gold (peasants use it for decoration because it's now so common); a secretive guild of wizards doing everything in their power to keep people believing that magic can only be performed by a select few when in fact anybody who can read can learn magic - literacy is somewhat uncommon though; a few interesting twists involving various forms of time travel - people turned to gold are not dead, but can be revived decades later as if no time had passed; and prophecies misinterpreted and gone awry. Over it all is a pantheon of gods which ties into alchemy, metallurgy, astrology, and magic, and kind of binds everything together to set a backdrop. It was written first as a short novel, though with the game mechanics in mind so that it will directly tie into the story.
:Gameplay itself is likely to be similar to the ES games, as those have been my obsession for some time now. Though the stress would be more on magic and less on physical combat (which is not to say there wouldn't be any - you could go completely without magic if you wanted.) The magic system is designed such that no two spells are equivalent, and no spell ever becomes obsolete because a better one comes along later - every spell must be useful from when you first get it until the end of the game. (They improve with skill, basically.) At the same time, no spell is ever required. For any given task, there should always be multiple ways of tackling it, both magical and otherwise. I give as a simple example - you're stuck at the bottom of a deep hole. What can you do? Using magic, you could: cast a flying/levitation spell to get out, cast a spell which causes vines to grow up the side that you can climb on, cast a spell to fill the pit with water and swim out, cast a spell to create boulders to climb out, cast a spell to teleport out, cast a spell which makes it possible to pass through thin layers of solid objects, and find a secret passage on the other side of the wall of the pit, etc. Without magic, you could attempt to simply scale the wall the old-fashioned way (carefully finding handholds and footholds), fire a grappling hook from a bow, dig your way into that secret passage with a shovel, or just collapse enough of the walls to fill up the hole with dirt and climb out, throw a rope up to your buddy at the top, etc. Always multiple solutions.
:Anyhow, it's a long term project, so don't look for it any time soon. Right now it's pretty much just me, and this kind of thing would need a pretty big team to put together. But it's a design I've been working on for quite a while now. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 17:31, 20 January 2013 (GMT)

Cool! Like I said...good luck! [[User:AlphaArgonian182|AlphaArgonian182]] 20 January 2013, 19:37 (GMT)

== Spell Icons ==

Are those spell icons just chosen by you? Or are they based in the game data? Also, are they just being displayed on the spell's page? Or do they get linked elsewhere? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 02:44, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

:It was an aesthetic choice. I didn't like how empty those corners looked on some spells, so I chose some appropriate icons to balance the layout. It's not official or anything - none of those spells actually have tomes, but then there's nothing in the layout that says that corner must contain only tome images. They're not shown anywhere but on those specific pages, so it shouldn't confuse anything. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:48, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

:: The tome icons I can understand, but I question the icons used on spells such as [[Skyrim:Vampiric Drain|Vampiric Drain]] and [[Skyrim:Arniel's Convection|Arniel's Convection]]. Random item icons really have no place there. We should either stick to the tomes, or leave the spells without an icon. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:45, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

::: I'll admit that a few of them were a stretch. But they're not "random items". They're all closely associated with the spells they're used on. On [[Skyrim:Conjure Dragon Priest|Conjure Dragon Priest]], I thought the Konahrik mask was appropriate, because that's how you get that spell. Likewise you get [[Skyrim:Summon Arniel's Shade|Summon Arniel's Shade]] when you pick up Keening, and you get [[Skyrim:Summon Arvak|Summon Arvak]] from returning Arvak's Skull. For the others, which are mostly specialized limited-use spells, I chose what you need to use the spells ''for''. You use Arniel's Convection on the Warped Soul Gem, you use [[Skyrim:Summon Unbound Dremora|Summon Unbound Dremora]] to get a Sigil Stone, you use [[Skyrim:Vision of the Tenth Eye|Vision of the Tenth Eye]] to find the Master Illusion Tomes. The Vampiric Drain icon was the most iffy, but I didn't want it to be the only blank one. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears (eyes). If the icon in the corner were labeled "Spell Tome", or in any way indicated that this spot is only to be used for the Spell Tome icon and nothing else, I could see why there'd be a problem with it. But it's just a picture in the corner, which in no way implies that it ''must'' be a spell tome image. I just think the layout looks really off-balanced if that area is left blank. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 17:56, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

:::: I'll admit, the items related to obtaining the spell make more sense. The Vampiric Drain icon still irritates me (especially since the Blood Potion isn't even vanilla), but if it's the only spell without a related icon then I guess it's best to let it slide. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 18:25, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

== Move Files Delete Redirects ==

Hi,

I feel like there's probably a reason you said there's no reason to change to policy here: [[:UESPWiki:Community_Portal#Move_File_Rights]] And I'm fairly wiki-illiterate in many ways. I think I got excited about "helping," which may have diverted energy from my thinking! What's the best thing to do? Or it's not really important? Thanks. --[[User:JR|JR]] ([[User talk:JR|talk]]) 07:56, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

:My only point was that we were discussing whether or not a non-patroller/admin should be allowed to propose deletion on files or articles. I was simply clarifying that ''anyone'' can propose deletion on whatever they want, which has always been the case. Whether something is technically ''eligible'' for deletion is an entirely separate debate. But as long as all deletion proposals must be reviewed by an admin (since only admins can actually perform the deletion), there is no need for any kind of restriction on who can or cannot propose deletions. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 15:36, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

::I get it. I think it arose for me when I tried to rename a few images recently. I did my best to find and follow instructions or guidance on my own to possibly spare someone else a little work (as a general principle, because I've been making enough edits lately, that I should pay more attention to learning more and so making some things more efficient. After I went through that process of trying to figure things out, several people said, "Oh we've mostly been speeding them, in practice" and I think someone changed my prods to speedys, and/or had to fix mistakes I made. No big deal that, but I thought, well, maybe I can write a clearer guide for the next person who comes along in my boots. Thanks.--[[User:JR|JR]] ([[User talk:JR|talk]]) 15:55, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

== Gem Maps ==

Hiya TRL! I just wanted to say that [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim%3ANo_Stone_Unturned&diff=1111193&oldid=1088106 these] maps you've been adding for the unusual gems are pretty neat. Good idea! :) — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 20:39, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

:Yeah, I'm trying to think what else they could be used for - [[Skyrim:The Litany of Larceny|The Litany of Larceny]] items come to mind, possibly pieces of [[Skyrim:Mehrunes' Razor|Mehrunes' Razor]] (though some of those are carried by NPCs), and other unique treasures that are found in fixed, non-radiant locations. We are kind of lacking in general interior map images for Skyrim - that could be a whole new project at some point... [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 20:45, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

::When Dragonborn comes out for PC, it could be really useful to have them for the [[Dragonborn:Pain_in_the_Necklace|Pain in the Necklace]] quest, for all the East Empire Company Strongboxes (there are 33). Of course, many of those are in exterior locations, so that may be more difficult to do since the local maps wouldn't be as clearly defined. Can't think of any other uses off the top of my head, but either way, I like the way you've done them for No Stone Unturned. Neat idea. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 20:58, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

:::Sounds like another good place for this sort of thing - though the exterior locations would indeed be complicated. Possibly I could come up with some other format for those - maybe just show a circle of map around the location. We'll see in a few days, I guess. I know very little about DB since I don't have an Xbox. Also made me think of the various treasure map locations, which would have the same problem. Also other unique places like [[Skyrim:Yisra|Yisra]]'s corpse might be appropriate for that. (Wouldn't do this with most random corpses, but it's relevant given the free (and respawning) [[Skyrim:Flame Cloak|Flame Cloak]] tome near her.) [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 00:37, 2 February 2013 (GMT)

== Maven (grand)mother ==

I'm contacting you about this since you changed the info on the articles. I just want to point out that, as I've stated on the [[Skyrim talk:Maven Black-Briar|talk page]], that there is more evidence of her being mother of all three. I think more discussion regarding this necessary ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 15:30, 7 February 2013 (GMT)

:Yeah, unfortunately, there will always be a question here, because they were inconsistent with the way they set things up. I'm going through the relationships now, and finding other things that are screwed up, like [[Skyrim:Clinton Lylvieve|Clinton Lylvieve]] is set up as [[Skyrim:Azzada Lylvieve|Azzada Lylvieve]]'s ''father'' instead of his son. That one is clearly an error, but the Black-Briar situation is less clear. I think people might refer to her as "Mother" because she is the matriarch of the family, rather than their literal mother, but I can't back that up. Certainly Hemming appears to be more than just a little bit older than Ingun and Sibbi, and his claim that they are his children rather than his siblings can't be ignored. I'm thinking now that given conflicting information, we need to present both possibilities, along with the evidence on both sides, rather than claiming one or the other to be correct. My edits at least made note of the fact that there was a discrepancy, which was not shown on the previous versions of the page. We could do a partial revert to the older arrangement, but leave the Bug notes stating that there is some confusion over this, which is pretty much all we ''can'' do given the conflicting evidence. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:52, 7 February 2013 (GMT)
::I suppose presenting both is a good idea, I just didn't like the thought she was the grandmother. Most evidence for her being grandmother in the game is when she's the jarl, and you'll only get to see that half of the time, and even that's if you actually compete in the civil war. It wasn't until I saw it here that I knew of this "bug" ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 01:28, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

== Up arrow ==

Hey. I removed the line about hitting the up arrow, I really don't think it is needed in that section. Perhaps it can be added as a general console note? It just seems strange to hang that note in a specific function, because it doesn't ONLY apply to that function, you know? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 20:47, 12 February 2013 (GMT)

:Yeah, only that's the only case where you can't see what you're typing, so it's a bit more relevant. Also, in the case of other console commands, you might do a bunch of them in a row, and the up arrow gives you the most recently typed one (or others if you hit it repeatedly). But when using "tm", it's very unlikely you'd be entering in other codes blindly, so "tm" is probably the most recent one. Okay, so it saves one keystroke, although I often use it multiple times in a session (if I'm taking screenshots), so I just toggle it back and forth with the up arrow. I guess it's nothing revolutionary, but it's worthy of note at least somewhere... [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 23:10, 12 February 2013 (GMT)

== Lore Places Project ==

Hi there, I was considering adding my name to the [[UESPWiki:Lore Places Project|LPP]], and was wondering whether the status of the project is still as mentioned in the ''How You Can Help'' section, or whether, one year into the project, any of those things had been completed, or any other objectives had surfaced. Thanks, [[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 00:07, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

: Hope you don't mind me replying, Lurlock. I've just added to the [[UESPWiki:Lore Places Project|LPP page]], the hidden categories that are relevant to the LPP. You might find something in there that needs some attention, Endoc. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 02:15, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

:: There have been no changes. The goals are basically the same. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 02:30, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

:::OK thanks. And thanks for adding those links, Daric. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:44, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

== Wooden Mask ==

Hey TRL. Since you added [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim%3AWooden_Mask&diff=1128208&oldid=1127890 this note], might you be able to provide some input [[Skyrim talk:Wooden Mask#Moved Note|here]]? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 20:53, 16 February 2013 (GMT)

== Emperor Parasol Moss ==

There is definitely moss on the Emperor Parasols in morrowind, [[:File:MW-flora-Emperor Parasol.jpg|here]] is an image of a morrowind parasol with moss hanging from it :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:23, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

:What I'm trying to make clear is that "Emperor Parasol Moss" was not an ingredient which ever appeared in Morrowind, as the previous version of that entry implied. Maybe it exists as a visual effect, but it cannot be harvested, so this statement is misleading. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:25, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
::There are two separate lore pages. This page is about the actual moss, not the ingredient. Under the alchemy section the ingredient is listed. The ingredient didn't exist in morrowind, but the plant did. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:27, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
:::I added "Moss hanging from the Emperor Parasols on Solsthiem has acute alchemical properties." which links to the alchemy lore page about the moss. Hopefully that's an acceptable compromise. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:33, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

:::: The entry doesn't imply that. It simply states that Emperor Parasols are native to Morrowind, and that the moss can be found growing on them. Two separate statements. There's no need to bring up the odd, game-specific alchemical properties. We don't say that only [[Lore:Ebony|ebony]] "found in the mines of Vvardenfell" can be used in alchemy, so there's no reason to assume that only the moss on Solstheim is used in alchemy. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 19:43, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

:::::The difference is one of them is a retcon - the term "Emperor Parasol Moss" did not exist until the Dragonborn expansion came out. The fact that there happens to be moss in Morrowind that looks similar is a side-note - we don't know for a fact that this is the same kind of moss. (It's clearly different from, say Hanging Moss, so we know there's more than one species of moss in the world.) Claiming that the nameless moss found growing on nameless mushrooms in Morrowind is the same as that added in Dragonborn is pure speculation. They look similar, yes, but there's no lore to establish that they are indeed the same thing. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:49, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
::::::They aren't nameless. They ARE Emperor Parasols. [[:File:MW-concept-29.jpg|Here]] is concept art from Morrowind with Emperor Parasol written in the bottom corner, Vivec's [[Lore:36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 2|Sermons 2]] and [[Lore:36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 26|26]] also mention them by name. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:54, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

:::::::Okay, the mushrooms aren't nameless, but the moss is. Point still stands. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:55, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
{{od}} It isn't ''Emperor Parasol'' Moss, it is Emperor Parasol ''Moss'', i.e. the moss that grows on Emperor Parasol mushrooms. It is the same thing as saying Skin Cancer. It is cancer of the skin. There are many types of skin cancer, but it is all called skin cancer. We don't have a specific name for the moss, just like hanging moss. Hanging moss is moss that hangs, not any sort of specific species name. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:58, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

:Except in Skyrim, Hanging Moss IS a specific species name. At least, it's different enough that it has entirely different alchemical properties from Emperor Parasol Moss. It hangs from all kinds of things - stone, trees, dirt, etc. But we don't call it "Stone Moss" or "Tree Moss". It's all the same. What makes moss hanging from Emperor Parasols different from other Hanging Moss? We don't know. Also, it's worth noting that if you look around Morrowind, you'll see that not all the giant mushrooms look the same - there may be more than one species of giant mushroom, only one of which is actually Emperor Parasol. The fact is that calling anything seen in Morrowind "Emperor Parasol Moss" is conjecture. We don't know that it's the same thing unless they say so. Otherwise you're just making stuff up. Anyhow, I've spent way too much time arguing about moss. Put whatever you want on the page, just try and keep it to the facts we can reliably confirm and avoid conjecture. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 20:25, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
::All the mushrooms in Morrowind are named as Emperor Parasols in the construction set. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 20:27, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

== Answer Question ==

Hey Lurlock just wanted to let you know I answered your question about the map on that Pain in the Necklace talk page. [[User:Lord Eydvar|Lord Eydvar]] [[User Talk:Lord Eydvar|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lord Eydvar|Contribs]] 02:24, 19 February 2013 (GMT)

== Three missing argonians ==

Hey! The three missing argonians are dead slaves located in Sjobal. I'm in the process of adding redirects for them now, so they should all work. Also, wind-in-his-hair is a shipmaster, but I'm not sure where yet (I haven't gotten that far). If you need any help with lore names locations on any of the pages, let me know, because I added many of them :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:43, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

:Yeah, the only reference on the site to "Wind-In-His-Hair" currently is on [[Lore:Argonian Names]]. I'm thinking it's either a typo or a major oversight. It is kind of weird for an Argonian name - Argonians don't ''have'' hair, per se. Anyhow, that's one benefit of what I'm doing with these pages - it makes it easier to find mistakes. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 15:46, 21 February 2013 (GMT)
::I agree. Wind-In-His-Hair is in the game data, but it looks like he never appears in the game, at least not that I can find. Not sure what we should do here... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 15:48, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

:::We have a page for [[Morrowind:Non-Existent People|Non-Existent People]], that a number of these names came from. Perhaps it belongs there? Anyhow, for any lore links you see omitted, feel free to add them yourself. This is kind of a big job now that I think of it. I am ''not'' looking forward to the Dunmer page. Not only are there a ridiculous number of them, but Dunmer have two-part names, so pretty much ''none'' of the links are going to work right out of the box. There's a reason I did Altmer, Argonian, and Bosmer first, and it's not because of the alphabet. I'll probably do Khajiit and Redguard next, and then maybe Nord. But the two-part names are going to be a real pain... On the subject, I'm also wondering if the names on [[Oblivion:Whispers of Death]] should be created as redirects. At least (unlike the non-existent people) they can be encountered in the game, even if they don't exist most of the time. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:17, 21 February 2013 (GMT)
::::Actually, in the oblivion one, they can't be encountered in game. They are all found outside of Cyrodiil. I already added the lore links for the bosmer page, and I'm in the process of going through some books and finding more now. Question though, what do we do when the name appears in a lore book (i.e. in more than one game), but also in one of the games? Does it JUST go under the game section? Or does it also go under the lore section? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:24, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

:::::If it's clearly the same person, I'd say have just the game link. If it's likely a different person with the same name, I can see justification for both. There are of course NPCs who appear in more than one game. (Doing Khajiits now, and there's three M'aiq the Liars.) Since they each have their own page, it's listed all three times. (Plus it's implied they may not all be the same person, especially given the 200 yr. gap between Oblivion and Skyrim - I don't think Khajiits live that long.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:29, 21 February 2013 (GMT)
::::::They might, you never know :) I have begun to pull names from books, but I'm going to take a break right now. You can see what I have so far [[User:Jeancey/Dii|here]]. :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:37, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

:::::::I think M'aiq (Skyrim version) says it best - his father was named M'aiq as well as his father's father. I think there may also have been something in one of the books about it, but I think Khajiit lifespans are comparable to humans. Elves obviously live longer, and Argonians are still an utter mystery. Orcs seem to not live as long, but mainly because they insist on dying in battle while they're still strong enough to put up a good fight. The list looks good, though I can't quite parse the acronyms you're using for book titles. (I got a few, but maybe a key would help - then again if it's just your sandbox nobody else necessarily needs to understand it...) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:45, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

== Morrowind Overhaul Project ==

I have begun the basic outline for a Morrowind Overhaul Project. If you can think of things that are needed, or anything else, please let me know :) You can find it in my sandbox, [[User:Jeancey/Ehnii|here]]. :) Thanks in advance for your input! [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 00:26, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

:I wish I could help more, but I don't have MW installed on my current machine and I sadly lost the discs a while ago. Maybe one of these days I'll pick up another copy - it can't be too expensive anymore. Though I imagine it'll eventually be released for free as Arena and Daggerfall both were. Anyhow, I'll help out where I can, but anything requiring the actual game or CS I won't be able to do. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:12, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

== Stubs ==

By the way, we talked about it yesterday, but we decided that not EVERY stub '''needs''' to be categorized, especially for the older namespaces where there are only a few stubs. My general view was, if there were less than 20 or so stubs for a given category, it wasn't really needed. This is slightly different for the lore namespace where there might always be more stubs, but for pretty much all the others, they don't need to be categorized. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 04:06, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

:Yeah, I wasn't planning on doing the rest of them, because they're too varied to fit into a category that'd have more than just a few in it. I didn't get really specific either - it's [[:Category:Skyrim Item Stubs]], not "Weapon Stubs", "Armor Stubs", "Ingredient Stubs", etc. I just didn't like seeing those red-link categories on those pages, though I suppose we should just actually make the Uncategorized Stubs categories so they won't be red-links... — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 04:10, 25 February 2013 (GMT)
::Either that, or, now that all the ones that CAN be categorized, are, we could just revert the change to the stub template that added those categories to begin with... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 04:16, 25 February 2013 (GMT)
:::I have no objections either way. As I said on CP, it was the fastest way to point out any that might need categorization that weren't already, but I wasn't sure if it made sense to keep those categories in the long run. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:34, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

== Block ==

I went ahead and temp-blocked [[Special:Contributions/Spamhammer9383|this user]] even though Recent Changes shows that you're online since they're on a spree. Figured I'd skip the temporary message and let you change their block to however much longer you deem necessary. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 04:26, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

:Hmm. Tough one. Technically since he/she/it vandalized my User page I'm not impartial - I forget if there's rules about that. I think I'll extend the block to a full day and let another admin decide whether more serious action is required. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 04:42, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

::Ah didn't think of that. That solution sounds good. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 04:55, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

== Lore names ==

For names that come from dialogue (just search the CSlist dial records), I added them as hover text, so <code><nowiki>{{Hover|Local Rumors in Morrowind|name}}</nowiki></code> for a name would display as {{Hover|Local Rumors in Morrowind|name}}. I think that's the best way to go about it, since there isn't really a page to link to... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:47, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

:Can we link to the CSlist then for these? The main motivation for adding these links in the first place is so that they're backed up by actual sources. The number of errors I uncovered doing this project underscores the need for verifiable references. How many of these are there anyhow? I'm not sure if there was any thorough process for finding names which exist only in dialogue, so we may be missing a bunch here. Might be a pain to try and find them all though. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:53, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

::Just chiming in really quick here: I know there was some concern in the past about linking too much to CSList—if I recall correctly it had to do with how Google ranks pages, and there was concern that people might start ending up on CSList pages rather than on wiki pages, or something like that. I do remember Neph being really hesitant to open the thing up in the first place. I can search around more and try to find whatever it is I'm remembering, which would probably be more helpful, but...yeah, just throwing that out there! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 20:00, 27 February 2013 (GMT)
:::That's a fair point Eshe. TRL, if we decide to, we can link to CSlist like this: {{CSList|ns_base=Morrowind|page=game=mw&ordid=347684|Athrys}}. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 20:10, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

::::My take on it is this. As it is, hovering over the name produces nothing but "Local Rumors in Morrowind". You don't get the full name, or any hint whatsoever of who or where you have to go to hear this rumor. Basically, you have to take our word for it that a name exists somewhere, but you aren't even given the first clue how to begin looking for it (either within the game or on UESP). What I think we might need is a page for "Morrowind:Local Rumors" or something like that, where we list all of the rumors you can find, grouped by location, perhaps, and another section for rumors from specific people, etc. Every entry should be linkable, so we can from anywhere we want point to the specific rumor that we're referencing. Names in non-rumor dialogue might be more difficult, but if dialogue is limited to a single NPC, it should just be on that NPC's page. I think I remember somebody starting a project like that a while back, but I forget who... — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 15:22, 28 February 2013 (GMT)

== Place summary changes ==

Hey. I think that is was extremely premature of you to make a unilateral change to the place summary template in order to add your new icons without reaching a consensus first. I (and at least a few others) was under the impression that this would ONLY be for the map, and I support the use of the new icons for that purpose. However, I do not support using the icons on every page, especially since in the light colored backgrounds of the wiki pages, the white outline looks absolutely awful. Add to the fact that if we use all of these images, we would no longer be using the official, legitimate icons in any way. The icons we use currently look great in the wiki setting, and are official. Also, in the places pages, the new icons make it extremely hard to see, at least for me personally, what the icon is, see [[Skyrim:Towers|here]]. The other issue that was brought up to me is that this is extremely inconsiderate to people who are color blind. The old, black and white icons, have absolutely no issue there, and I think that we need to consider that not everyone can see the colors on the icons, and they may even fade into the background entirely depending on what kind of color blindness they have. I would ask you to please revert your changes to the template, and open a brand new CP discussion specifically about the use of the icons on articles in the wiki, and to keep that discussion open for at least a few weeks, or until consensus has been reached, in order to make sure that all opinions can be heard on this matter which has a drastic affect on the look and feel of the wiki. I apologize if I sound harsh in any way, but I feel very strongly that a real discussion needs to take place before this change is made. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:36, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:Calm down! It's just a trial run. Changing it back is as simple as one revert to the template. But we wouldn't be able to see what issues there were until we could actually see it. Worst case scenario we have some slight inconsistency for a few hours. Can you at least see what it will look like before screaming at me like this? — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 18:07, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::With something like this, the only way to see how it looks is to have a full-scale trial, by temporarily changing the wiki. Especially with this kind of discussion, it's difficult to compare the current setup with a new one without being able to see what the new one would look like. After a few tweaks here and there, it'll either remain, because people have voted in favor of it, or changed back. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 18:12, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Thank you for understanding. Though I've reverted it because of all the screaming. I hate being in the middle of a giant internet shouting match, but I didn't see any other way to see how it would look without just trying it out. I apologize to everyone for trying to take a little initiative, but it seemed nobody was interested in even discussing it anymore. Apparently I was wrong there. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 18:30, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

==Hello!==
You just beat me to blocking those bot :(. How have things been? I haven't talked to you in a few years.--[[User:Ratwar|Ratwar]] ([[User talk:Ratwar|talk]]) 12:43, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

:Heh, I was about to say the same thing! Though you didn't take nearly as long a break as I did from the site (checking recent contributions), but I've been pretty active again for the past year. Had to take some time off because I went back to school and got a Masters (in Interactive Entertainment). Now I'm in the post-graduation job-search frenzy mode trying to land a programming gig at a decent game company (no word back from Bethesda, sadly). Anyhow, good to see you're still around. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:50, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

== Lore Place Summary Template ==

Not sure if you're watching the [[UESPWiki talk:Lore Places Project|LPP talk page]], but I've been updating the template in my [[User:Enodoc/Sandbox|sandbox]] based on your suggestions in the How to Help section of the [[UESP:LPP|LPP project page]]. I'd appeciate it if you could look over my changes, and see if they fix the issues that you brought up, before I make the changes to the main [[Template:Lore Place Summary|template]]. Thanks! --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 15:05, 8 April 2013 (GMT)

:I'll be honest, I haven't really got the time to look thoroughly at this. At a glance it looks alright though. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:34, 9 April 2013 (GMT)

::Fair enough, thanks for getting back to me. I'll make the changes to the template after I've tested it a bit more, and if any issues come out afterwards we can address them then. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:13, 9 April 2013 (GMT)

== Foyadas ==
:''Moved to [[UESPWiki:Community Portal#Maps on pages which don't feature the location|Community Portal]]''

== Happy Birthday! ==

Huge birthday greetings from Denmark – may you have a good day with lots of edits! ☺--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 05:47, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

:I'd also like to wish you a happy birthday! <code>{{{something_clever}}}</code> • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 06:31, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

::Happy birthday! --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 07:07, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

:::Happy birthday, Lurlock! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 07:23, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

::::Happy birthday from China! [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 07:43, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

:::::Happy Birthday! ^_^ [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 11:44, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim:Molag Bal

2013-04-17T00:56:03Z

Kimi the Elf: removed prod. changed into redirect.

#REDIRECT [[Skyrim:Unused NPCs#Molag Bal]] [[Category:Redirects to Broader Subjects]] [[Category:Skyrim-NPCs]]

Lore:Bestiary G

2013-04-16T23:44:38Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Giant */ I never saw any giants in arena and we have non listed on the wiki.

{{Lore Bestiary Trail|G}}

==Gargoyle==
{{Flora Entry
|image=SR-creature-Gargoyle.jpg
|imgdesc=A Gargoyle
|description=A statue that has been animated by a wizard or a vampire lord, found guarding dungeons and castles. Some will remain frozen to make their prey think they are still made of stone before they attack.
|place=*[[Daggerfall:Bestiary#Gargoyle|Daggerfall]], [[Skyrim:Gargoyle|Dawnguard]]
}}

==Gatekeeper of the Fringe==
{{Flora Entry
|image=SI-creature-Gatekeeper.jpg
|imgdesc=The Gatekeeper
|description=Created by [[Lore:Relmyna Verenim|Relmyna Verenim]], the Gatekeeper is a giant [[Lore:Flesh Atronach|Flesh Atronach]] charged with protecting the Gates of Madness in the [[Lore:The Shivering Isles|Shivering Isles]].
|place=*[[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Shivering Isles]]
}}

==Gehenoth==
{{Flora Entry
|image=DS-action-5.png
|imgdesc=The Gehenoth
|description=A monstrous beast who attacks adventurers as they rest. Found in the dungeons around the city of Dawnstar.
|place=*[[Dawnstar:Gehenoth|Dawnstar]]
}}

==Ghoul==
{{Flora Entry
|image=ArenaGhoul.gif
|imgdesc=A Ghoul
|description=These undead are the carrion eaters of dungeons, crypts, and other burial places. They feast on human corpses and other rotting flesh. Although they are not intelligent, they have a natural cunning that aids them in finding food. Because of their vile habits, ghouls have a chance of transmitting a disease to those they bite.
|place=*[[Arena:Ghoul|Arena]]
}}

==Ghost==
{{Flora Entry
|image=OB-creature-Ghost.jpg
|imgdesc=A Ghost
|description=A moderately powerful undead with some spell casting ability, Ghosts require silver or better weapons to be damaged. Known as [[Lore:Ancestor Ghost|Ancestor Ghosts]] in Morrowind.
|place=*[[Arena:Ghost|Arena]], [[Daggerfall:Bestiary#Ghost|Daggerfall]], [[Battlespire:Ghost|Battlespire]], [[Shadowkey:Creatures#Ghost|Shadowkey]], [[Oblivion:Ghost|Oblivion]], [[OBMobile:Bestiary#Ghost|Oblivion Mobile]], [[Skyrim:Ghost|Skyrim]]
}}

==Giant==
{{Flora Entry
|image=SR-creature-Giant_02.jpg
|imgdesc=A Giant
|description=A tremendously large creature that can deal great amounts of damage to an unwary adventurer. Speakers of [[Daggerfall:Giantish|Giantish]] can stop these brutes from attacking. The giants native to [[Lore:Skyrim|Skyrim]] are mostly harmless while unprovoked, and are known to herd domesticated {{Lore Link|Mammoth|mammoths}}. If they are provoked, however, or their precious mammoths are harmed, they can be highly dangerous and will attack with their giant clubs. As part of a long-standing tradition, farmers in Skyrim often leave them a {{Lore Link|cow}} so the giants will leave the rest of their herd alone. The cow is decorated with paint so the giants will understand it is a tribute to them. 
|place=*[[Daggerfall:Bestiary#Giant|Daggerfall]], [[Skyrim:Giant|Skyrim]]
}}

==Giant Bat==
{{Flora Entry
|image=DaggerfallBat.gif
|imgdesc=A Giant Bat
|description=A large species of bat.
|place=*[[Daggerfall:Bestiary#Giant Bat|Daggerfall]]
}}

==Giant Rat==
{{Flora Entry
|image=DaggerfallRat.gif
|imgdesc=A Giant Rat
|description=A large species of [[Lore:Rat|rat]].
|place=*[[Daggerfall:Bestiary#Giant Rat|Daggerfall]]
}}

==Giant Scorpion==
{{Flora Entry
|image=DaggerfallScorpion.gif
|imgdesc=A Giant Scorpion
|description=Usually refers to common Giant Scorpion found in most arid regions of Tamriel. The sting of the scorpion can paralyze the unsuspecting adventurer so extreme caution is advised.
|place=*[[Daggerfall:Bestiary#Giant Scorpion|Daggerfall]]
}}

==Gloom Wraith==
{{Flora Entry
|image=OB-creature-Gloom_Wraith.jpg
|imgdesc=A Gloom Wraith
|description=An extremely powerful [[Lore:Wraith|wraith]] which can wield swords and project curses that damage Strength and Endurance. Can be harmed only by silver, Daedric and enchanted weapons. Can also be harmed by non-frost based spells and some conjurations.
|place=*[[Oblivion:Gloom Wraith|Oblivion]]
}}

==Gnarl==
{{Flora Entry
|image=SI-creature-Gnarl (Mania).jpg
|imgdesc=A Gnarl
|description=Perhaps the strangest creature of the Shivering Isles, this animated plant can be found roaming almost anywhere on the isles. One of [[Lore:Sheogorath|Sheogorath]]'s truly unique creations, the Gnarl has an unusual trait of being able to use magic cast upon it, and harness that power to bolster its own defense.
|place=*[[Shivering:Gnarl|Shivering Isles]]
}}

==Goats==
{{Flora Entry
|image=SR-creature-Goat.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goat
|description=Goats are passive creatures generally found on mountain slopes. They are hunted for their hide and meat, and can also be domesticated.
|place=*[[Skyrim:Goat|Skyrim]]
}}

==Goblin==
{{Flora Entry
|image=OB-creature-Goblin.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goblin
|description=Goblins are humanoids found throughout Tamriel. They range in height from three feet to over eight feet. Their eyes are yellow and resemble a cat's. The goblin, much like the orc, is found in various types all across Tamriel. Although not terribly skilled in combat, and rarely in magic, goblins can become dangerous in the large numbers in which they are usually found. See also: [[Lore:Riekling|Riekling]]
|place=*[[Arena:Goblin|Arena]], [[Redguard:Bestiary#Goblin|Redguard]], [[Tribunal:Goblins|Tribunal]], [[Shadowkey:Creatures#Goblin|Shadowkey]], [[Oblivion:Goblins|Oblivion]], [[OBMobile:Bestiary#Goblin|Oblivion Mobile]]
}}

==Goblin Berserker==
{{Flora Entry
|image=OB-creature-Goblin Berserker.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goblin Berserker
|description=A tougher form of Goblin that is often found equipped for close in combat.
|place=*[[Oblivion:Goblin Berserker|Oblivion]]
}}

==Goblin Chef==
{{Flora Entry
|image=
|imgdesc=
|description=A weak goblin which is poorly suited for combat, but will still attack intruders aggressively.
|place=*[[Oblivion:Goblin Chef|Oblivion]]
}}

==Goblin Handler==
{{Flora Entry
|image=TR-creature-GoblinOfficer.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goblin Handler
|description=A goblin usually found with a trained War Durzog, they are slightly stronger than the average goblin and typically carry Restore Health potions.
|place=*[[Tribunal:Goblin Handler|Tribunal]]
}}

==Goblin King==
{{Flora Entry
|image=Redguard-GoblinKing.gif
|imgdesc=A Goblin King
|description=A massive ogre who rules over a tribe of goblins.
|place=*[[Redguard:Bestiary#Goblin King|Redguard]]
}}

==Goblin Rat Farmer==
{{Flora Entry
|image=
|imgdesc=
|description=A goblin that herds [[Lore:Rat|rats]] as livestock within their lairs.
|place=*[[Oblivion:Goblin Rat Farmer|Oblivion]]
}}

==Goblin Sergeant==
{{Flora Entry
|image=
|imgdesc=
|description=
|place=*[[Shadowkey:Creatures#Goblin Sergeant|Shadowkey]]
}}

==Goblin Shaman==
{{Flora Entry
|image=OB-creature-Goblin_Shaman.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goblin Shaman
|description=A goblin spellcaster that carries potions and can summon zombies. Along with the warchief, is one of the rulers of goblin clan structure.
|place=*[[Oblivion:Goblin Shaman|Oblivion]]
}}

==Goblin Skirmisher==
{{Flora Entry
|image=OB-creature-Goblin Skirmisher.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goblin Skirmisher
|description=A highly aggressive, fairly dangerous goblin warrior. Often possesses archery skills.
|place=*[[Oblivion:Goblin Skirmisher|Oblivion]]
}}

==Goblin War Chief==
{{Flora Entry
|image=TR-creature-GoblinWarchiefKurog.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goblin War Chief
|description=One of the highest ranking and powerful goblin warriors, often leaders of war parties.
|place=*[[Tribunal:Goblins|Tribunal]], [[Oblivion:Goblins|Oblivion]]
}}

==Goblin Warlord==
{{Flora Entry
|image=OB-creature-Goblin Warlord.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goblin Warlord
|description=Powerful and deadly goblin commanders.
|place=*[[Oblivion:Goblin Warlord|Oblivion]]
}}

==Goblin Witch==
{{Flora Entry
|image=OB-creature-Goblin_Witch.jpg
|imgdesc=A Goblin Witch
|description=Female goblin spellcasters.
|place=*[[Oblivion:Goblin Witch|Oblivion]]
}}

==Golden Saint==
{{Flora Entry
|image=SI-npc-Female_Golden_Saint_Archer.jpg
|imgdesc=A Golden Saint
|description=These [[Lore:Daedra|Daedra]] appear as half-clad women with golden-hued skin wearing golden armor and a winged helmet. Also known as "Aureals", they are the spawn of [[Lore:Sheogorath|Sheogorath]] and are feared for their combat abilities. They often look down on mortals, and tend to be quick tempered, short of patience, and are quick to deal cruel and harsh punishments. They view all in the Shivering Isles as inferior, and make no effort to hide this in their interactions. More information at [[Lore:Aureal|Aureal]].
|place=*[[Morrowind:Golden Saint|Morrowind]], [[Shivering:Golden Saint|Shivering Isles]]
}}

==Grahl==
{{Flora Entry
|image=BM-creature-grahl-1.jpg
|imgdesc=A Grahl
|description=Known as "ice [[Lore:Troll|trolls]]", these powerful creatures share their mainland counterparts' regeneration and vulnerability to fire. They are often found in the ice caves of [[Lore:Solstheim|Solstheim]]. Also see [[Lore:Frost Giant|Frost Giants]].
|place=*[[Bloodmoon:Grahl|Bloodmoon]]
}}

==Greater Bonewalker==
{{Flora Entry
|image=MW-creature-Greater Bonewalker.jpg
|imgdesc=A Greater Bonewalker
|description=A powerful form of revenant found in graves and tombs throughout Morrowind. It is feared for its use of powerful and hideous curses. Resistant to frost, poison, and shock.
|place=*[[Morrowind:Greater Bonewalker|Morrowind]]
}}

==Gremlin==
{{Flora Entry
|image=RG-Gremlin.jpg
|imgdesc=Cyrus, transformed into a Gremlin. Note the red vest.
|description=A small, harmless creature related to goblins, whom they can often be found living alongside. Sometimes known as an Orc-Rat. They are used as [[Lore:Slavery|slaves]] by the [[Lore:Altmer|Altmer]]. Gremlins and other [[Lore:Goblin-ken|goblin-ken]] were responsible for the founding of [[Lore:Orsinium|Orsinium]]. [[Lore:Cyrus|Cyrus]] the [[Lore:Redguard|Redguard]] was once transformed into a gremlin by Archmage Jaganvir of [[Lore:Stros M'Kai|Stros M'Kai]].
|place=*[[Redguard:Flask of Lillandril|Redguard]]
}}

==Grizzly Bear==
{{Flora Entry
|image=BM-creature-bear-black-2.jpg
|imgdesc=A Grizzly Bear
|description=A powerful animal that can attack not only with its powerful jaws, but with both front paws. Found throughout the wooded and snowy areas of Tamriel. See also the [[Lore:Brown Bear|Brown Bear]].
|place=*[[Daggerfall:Bestiary#Grizzly Bear|Daggerfall]], [[Bloodmoon:Grizzly Bear|Bloodmoon]]
}}

==Grummite==
{{Flora Entry
|image=SI-creature-Grummite (Mania).jpg
|imgdesc=A Grummite
|description=Grummites are an aquatic humanoid race seen in the Shivering Isles, who often lay eggs in sacs suspended over a body of water. Like the [[Lore:Baliwog|Baliwog]], they will regenerate when exposed to water.
|place=*[[Shivering:Grummite|Shivering Isles]]
}}

==Guar==
{{Flora Entry
|image=MW-creature-Guar.jpg
|imgdesc=A Guar
|description=Guars are the primary domesticated herd animal of Morrowind, and are not usually aggressive, with the exception of feral Wild Guar. Dunmer sometimes use them as pack animals.
|place=*[[Morrowind:Guar|Morrowind]]
}}

UESPWiki:Image Requests

2013-04-16T19:34:25Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Images Requested */ images

On this page, editors may make '''specific image requests''' for use on article pages. Image requests should always pertain to content-related articles which are ready for the images; this is ''not'' a place to request images for personal use.

Avoid making general requests, such as "''more pictures of the Battle for Solitude''". A better request would be more specific, such as "''the Stormcloaks at the outer gate before the Battle for Solitude''". Try to keep requests brief, but if the subject matter isn't perfectly obvious, please explain your request by providing details, such as the context of the article where the image will be placed.

This page is meant for ''specific'' image requests for use on articles which already include a basic image. Note that the {{tl|NeedsImage}} template should be used on pages which are missing basic images, and is automatically added to pages missing the <code>image</code> parameter in Summary templates for creature, NPC, and place pages.

==Using this Page==
===Posting a Request===
Please post your requests under the [[#Images Requested|Images Requested]] section in a bulletlist format, and sign your post. Please add the most recent requests to the bottom of the list. If requesting an image for a game other than Skyrim, please specify the game in your request. If requesting multiple images for use on the same article, provide a link to the article page, group the related images into a list, and sign below the full list.

'''Example''':
<table style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Waking Nightmare]]'''
*[[Skyrim:Erandur|Erandur]] opening the way further into [[Skyrim:Nightcaller Temple|Nightcaller Temple]] during [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]]
—[[User:ABCface|ABCface]] 16:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

'''Article: [[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness]]'''
*The [[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Gatekeeper]] laying a beating on the adventurers at the [[Shivering:Gates_of_Madness|Gates of Madness]] at the start of [[Shivering:Through_the_Fringe_of_Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]] (Shivering Isles)
—[[User:Alphabetface|Alphabetface]] 19:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
</td></tr></table>

===Fulfilling a Request===
If you fulfill a request, please strike out the request by using <code><nowiki><s></nowiki></code> at the beginning and <code><nowiki></s></nowiki></code> at the end, then add a link to the uploaded image directly below the request with your signature included. Do not add the image to the related page; the editor who requested the image should do this themselves. You do not need to provide a thumbnail image. Make sure that the images you upload follow the site's [[Help:Images|image guidelines]].

'''Example''':
<table style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Waking Nightmare]]'''
*<s>[[Skyrim:Erandur|Erandur]] opening the way further into [[Skyrim:Nightcaller Temple|Nightcaller Temple]] during [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]]</s>
**[[:File:SR-quest-Waking Nightmare 1.jpg]] —[[User:Kimi the Elf|Kimi the Elf]] 08:38, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
—[[User:ABCface|ABCface]] 16:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

'''Article: [[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness]]'''
*<s>The [[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Gatekeeper]] laying a beating on the adventurers at the [[Shivering:Gates_of_Madness|Gates of Madness]] at the start of [[Shivering:Through_the_Fringe_of_Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]] (Shivering Isles)</s>
**[[:File:SI-quest-Through the Fringe of Madness.jpg]] —[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] 23:22, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
—[[User:Alphabetface|Alphabetface]] 19:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
</td></tr></table>

===Removing a Request===
Only the editor who requested an image should remove the completed request. That editor should first add the new image to the corresponding article before removing the request from this page.

==Images Requested==
'''Articles: [[Skyrim:Markarth]], [[Skyrim:Solitude]], and [[Skyrim:Windhelm]]
*The maps of those three major cities. The images of the maps should also include the icons to the entrances of buildings. For an idea of what I'm talking about, visit [[Skyrim:Riften]] and [[Skyrim:Whiterun]] and click on their respective maps.
--[[User:Jake-518|Jake-518]] ([[User talk:Jake-518|talk]]) 07:01, 30 January 2013 (GMT)
: This seems to have already been done. I had to scroll in a bit so the other names would show up but the icons are definitely there. [[User:Kalbintion|ᴷᴬᴸᴯᴵᴻᵀᴵ□ᴻ]] 07:54, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
:: I found the map for Windhelm but I am unable to find the maps for Markarth or Solitude on this site. The Windhelm map is the way that I wanted to find it, so that's good news at least.--[[User:Jake-518|Jake-518]] ([[User talk:Jake-518|talk]]) 09:35, 16 February 2013 (GMT)
::: The maps for each can be accessed on the pages you linked to with a link titled "View on Map." It's in the right sidebar near the top. [[User:Kalbintion|ᴷᴬᴸᴯᴵᴻᵀᴵ□ᴻ]] 00:20, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
:::: Thanks, but I was hoping for something more detailed and higher resolution such as these: [[:File:SR-map-Whiterun.jpg]], [[:File:SR-Map-Riften.jpg]], [[:File:SR-Map-Windhelm.jpg]].--[[User:Jake-518|Jake-518]] ([[User talk:Jake-518|talk]]) 22:54, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

'''Articles: [[Skyrim:Unseen Visions]] and [[Skyrim:Passive Creatures]]'''
* <s>A swarm of ancestor moths (largest swarm?). Try to ensure that the player character is tastefully dressed.</s>
* <s>Note: All swarms consist of 4 moths.</s>
** [[:File:SR-creature-Ancestor_Moths.jpg]] -[[User:Kharay|Kharay]] ([[User talk:Kharay|talk]]) 19:08, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
—[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:20, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Skyrim:Dremora]] ([[User:Eshe/Sandbox/4|Sandbox]])'''
* <s>An image of a Dremora archer</s>
** They don't seem to be used in the game. --[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 18:30, 14 March 2013 (GMT)
* An introductory image for the page (perhaps a shot with more than one Dremora pictured, or one at the Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon?)
⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 20:35, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Dragonborn:Clean Sweep]]'''
* An image of [[Dragonborn:Clean_Sweep#Elder_Othreloth|the conversation]] between Elder Othreloth and Adril, slight focus on Othreloth. Image caption: ''"When are you going to do something about our central Ancestral Tomb?"''
** While the dialogue can technically happen, Adril never seems to visit the temple. --[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 17:16, 15 March 2013 (GMT)
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 07:19, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Oblivion:Priory of the Nine (place)]]'''
* <s>An image of the [[Oblivion:Priory of the Nine (place)|Priory of the Nine]] in its decrepit state.</s>
** [[:File:OB-place-Priory of the Nine.jpg]] —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 02:26, 6 April 2013 (GMT)
--[[User:Dominus Arbitrationis| Ad Intellige]] [[User talk:Dominus Arbitrationis| Mecum loqui]] 21:16, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Dragonborn:Varona Nelas]]
* An image of Elynea and Drovas having a conversation
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:29, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Agent|Mythic Dawn Agent]] (Oblivion) ([[User:Helenaannevalentine/Sandbox 2|Sandbox]])'''
* A 1:1 image of an assassin encountered in the tutorial.
* <s>A 1:1 image of a Mythic Dawn Acolyte in [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]].</s>
** [[:File:OB-npc-Mythic Dawn Acolyte.jpg]] [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 19:34, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
* <s>A 4:3 image of Mythic Dawn Acolytes (-- to replace File:OB-NPC-Acolytes.jpg)</s>
** [[:File:OB-npc-Acolytes.jpg]] [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 19:34, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
* <s>A 1:1 image of a Mythic Dawn Guard.</s>
** [[:File:OB-npc-Mythic Dawn Guard.jpg]] [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 19:34, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
These images will be much appreciated -[[User:Helenaannevalentine|helenaanne]]  [[User_talk:Helenaannevalentine|talk ♥]] 01:03, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

'''Articles: [[Lore:Castle Karstaag]] (and [[Dragonborn:Castle Karstaag Ruins]], I suppose)'''
* <s>A shot from Dragonborn showing more of the castle ruins.</s>
**[[:File:DB-place-Castle Karstaag Ruins 02.jpg]] --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 18:16, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
The current image on the DB page has worked fine as a placeholder, but I'd love to have a broader shot showing the overall structure. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 03:45, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
:I'm not sure the castle is even visible from the outside in Dragonborn... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:46, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Dragonborn:Fahlbtharz]] ([[User:Roger/Sandbox06|Sandbox]])'''
* A 4:3 shot of the large flooded room with spinning gears, platforms, and tall towers. (Zone 1: ''Fahlbtharz'')
* A 4:3 shot capturing most of the corridor. (Zone 2: ''Fahlbtharz Corridor'')
--[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 18:41, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

==See Also==
*[[:Category:All Pages Needing Images]] - Pages marked with the {{tl|NeedsImage}} template are listed on this page.
*[[Help:Images]] - A summary of information related to uploading and editing images.
*[[UESPWiki:Shivering_Isles_Redesign_Project/Wanted_Images|Shivering Isles Redesign Project/Wanted Images]] - All images wanted for pages related to the Shivering Isles Redesign Project are listed on this page.

[[Category:UESP Administration]]

User:Helenaannevalentine/Sandbox 2

2013-04-16T19:32:39Z

Kimi the Elf: update image

[[File:OB-npc-Acolytes.jpg|right|thumb|A group of Mythic Dawn acolytes within the [[Oblivion:Lake_Arrius_Caverns#Zone_3:_Dagon_Shrine|Shrine of Dagon]]]]
:''For more information on the Mythic Dawn classes, see [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Agent (class)|Mythic Dawn Agent (class)]].''
'''Mythic Dawn Agents''' are members of the [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn|Mythic Dawn]] cult and followers of [[Oblivion:Mankar Camoran|Mankar Camoran]].
[[File:OB-npc-Mythic Dawn Doorkeeper.jpg|thumb|right|The doorkeeper]]

While many members of the Mythic Dawn stay at the secret shrine in the [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]], some are posing as regular townsfolk. This is not an issue until your identity is revealed to the Mythic Dawn after your theft of the ''[[Oblivion:Mysterium Xarxes|Mysterium Xarxes]]'' during the [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|Dagon Shrine]] quest. After this, Mythic Dawn agents will attack on sight until the [[Oblivion:Light the Dragonfires|Light the Dragonfires]] quest is finished.

Usually, your only warning will be when they scream ''"For Lord Dagon!"'' before they summon their Daedric armor. The agents will attack regardless of the presence of other townsfolk or guardsmen and may kill townsfolk or guards in order to attack you.
{{TOCleft}}
The Mythic Dawn agents attack due to a 100 point faction-wide decrease in [[Oblivion:disposition|disposition]] when you steal the ''Mysterium Xarxes''. If an agent already had a 100 disposition toward you, it will not drop below 1, and they can still be engaged in conversation normally. Otherwise, using a combination of [[Oblivion:Charm|Charm]], [[Oblivion:Speechcraft|Speechcraft]], and/or 100% [[Oblivion:Chameleon|Chameleon]], you can raise an agent's disposition to prevent them from attacking you. Conversely, by deliberately lowering their disposition you can provoke these agents to attack you well before stealing the ''Mysterium Xarxes''. At the end of the Light the Dragonfires quest, the disposition drop is reversed. Therefore, any Mythic Dawn Agents who survive the Main Quest will no longer be hostile.

You may also encounter trouble with the agents before the Dagon Shrine quest. If you are, for example, traveling to Cloud Ruler Temple with Martin and Jauffre on the [[Oblivion:Weynon Priory (quest)|Weynon Priory Quest]] and you enter a town where a Mythic Dawn sleeper agent is walking around, Martin and Jauffre may attack and kill the agent.

If you opt to burgle their houses, you may discover Mythic Dawn paraphernalia in their house, such as a Mythic Dawn robe or one of the "''[[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Commentaries|Mythic Dawn Commentaries]]''" volumes.

It is also possible to discover the identity of Mythic Dawn agents by leaving Lake Arrius Caverns immediately after talking to the door guard (before talking to Harrow). If a townsperson is an agent, he or she will say, "Greet the new day, brother/sister," as you approach, but will still have the same dialogue options as normal.
{{NewLeft}}
==Generic Mythic Dawn Agents==
===Assassins===
These assassins are only encountered during the [[Oblivion:Tutorial|Tutorial]] quest and are all males. They wear the typical cultist garb consisting of the [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Robe|Mythic Dawn robe]] and [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Hood|hood]]. They also have the chance to be carrying either a [[Oblivion:Potions|random potion]] and/or [[Oblivion:Gold|gold]], and have a unique spell called ''Mythic Dawn Bound Armor'' which equips the Mythic Dawn Armor, Mythic Dawn Helm and also allows them to wield a [[Oblivion:Bound Mace|bound mace]].
{| class="wikitable" width=60%
! Name !! Race !! {{Hover|PC and NPC Level|Level}} !![[Oblivion:NPCs#Console_IDs|ID]]s !! [[File:OBHealthIcon_small.png]] !! [[File:OBMagickaIcon small.png]] !! Spells
|-
|rowspan=11|{{LE|Assassin}}
|rowspan=9|[[Oblivion:Imperial|Imperial]]
|rowspan=9; align=center| 3
|{{ID|00017623}}
|align=center|15
|rowspan=9; align=center|63
|style="font-size:90%"|
{|class=hiddentable
|• [[Oblivion:Bound Dagger|Bound Dagger]]
|-
|• ''Mythic Dawn Bound Armor''
|-
|• [[Oblivion:Spells#Destruction|Spark]] or [[Oblivion:Spells#Destruction|Shock]]
|}
|-
|{{ID|00014a27}}
|rowspan=3; align=center|20
|rowspan=8; style="font-size:90%"|
{|class=hiddentable
|• ''Mythic Dawn Bound Armor''
|}
|-
|{{ID|00014a28}}
|-
|{{ID|00017617}}
|-
|{{ID|0001d0ee}}
|rowspan=2; align=center|25
|-
|{{ID|00017620}}
|-
|{{ID|000176db}}
|rowspan=2; align=center|30
|-
|{{ID|00017619}}
|-
|{{ID|00017618}}
|align=center|35
|-
|rowspan=2|[[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]]
|rowspan=2; align=center| 6
|{{ID|000950db}}
|align=center|0
|rowspan=2; align=center|180
|style="font-size:90%"|
{|class=hiddentable
|• [[Oblivion:Bound Dagger|Bound Dagger]]
|-
|• ''Mythic Dawn Bound Armor''
|}
|-
||{{ID|0001e6ff}}
|align=center|40
|style="font-size:90%"|
{|class=hiddentable
|• ''Mythic Dawn Bound Armor''
|}
|-
|}

===Mythic Dawn Acolytes===
These acolytes are encountered in the [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]], and are all encountered as [[Oblivion:Imperial|Imperials]]. They wear the typical cultist garb consisting of the [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Robe|Mythic Dawn robe]] and [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Hood|hood]]. They also have the chance to be carrying either a random piece of [[Oblivion:Ingredients|food]], an enchanted [[Oblivion:Clothing#Rings|ring]], [[Oblivion:clothing#Amulets|necklace]] and/or [[Oblivion:Gold|gold]]. They also charge into combat with a randomly leveled [[Oblivion:Weapons#Daggers|dagger]], [[Oblivion:Weapons#Shortswords|shortsword]] or [[Oblivion:Weapons#Maces|mace]].
[[File:OB-npc-Mythic_Dawn_Acolyte.jpg|thumb|right|A Mythic Dawn Acolyte within the [[Oblivion:Lake_Arrius_Caverns#Zone_3:_Dagon_Shrine|Shrine of Dagon]]]]
{| class="wikitable" width=60%
! Name !! {{Hover|PC and NPC Level|Level}} !![[Oblivion:NPCs#Console_IDs|ID]]s !! [[File:GenderIcon.png|17px|Gender]] !! [[File:OBHealthIcon_small.png]] !! [[File:OBMagickaIcon small.png]] !! Spells
|-
|rowspan=11|{{LE|Mythic Dawn Acolyte}}
|align=center|1
|{{ID|00027060}}
|{{M}}
|align=center|16
|align=center|112
|style="font-size:90%"|
{|class=hiddentable
|• ''None''
|}
|-
|rowspan=9; align=center|PC-5 (max=15)
|{{ID|00022e37}}
|{{M}}
|rowspan=10; align=center|43 + (3+1.8)x(PC-6), PC=10-33
|rowspan=10; align=center|113 + 3.5x(PC-6) (max=162)
|rowspan=10; style="font-size:90%"|
{|class=hiddentable
|• [[Oblivion:Spells#Destruction|Spark]] or [[Oblivion:Spells#Destruction|Shock]]
|}
|-
|{{ID|00022e3b}}
|align=center|{{F}}
|-
|{{ID|00022e3c}}
|align=center|{{F}}
|-
|{{ID|00022e3d}}
|{{M}}
|-
|{{ID|00094e85}}
|align=center|{{F}}
|-
|{{ID|00094e86}}
|{{M}}
|-
|{{ID|00094e87}}
|align=center|{{F}}
|-
|{{ID|00094e88}}
|{{M}}
|-
|{{ID|00022c83}}
|{{M}}
|-
|align=center|PC-2
|{{ID|00022c84}}
|align=center|{{F}}
|}

===Mythic Dawn Agents===
[[File:OB-NPC-Agents.jpg|right|thumb|A Mythic Dawn agent in her summoned armor]]
{| class="wikitable" width=60%
! Name !! Race !! {{Hover|PC and NPC Level|Level}} !![[Oblivion:NPCs#Console_IDs|ID]]s !! [[File:GenderIcon.png|17px|Gender]] !! [[File:OBHealthIcon_small.png]] !! [[File:OBMagickaIcon small.png]] !! Spells
|-
|rowspan=6|{{LE|Mythic Dawn Agent}}
|[[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]]
|rowspan=2; align=center|PC+0
|{{ID|0017c457}}
|{{M}}
|rowspan=2; align=center|43 + (3+1.8)x(PC-1), PC=5-28
|rowspan=2; align=center|113 + 3.5x(PC-1) (max=250)
|rowspan=6; style="font-size:90%"|
{|class=hiddentable
|• ''Mythic Dawn Bound Armor''
|}
|-
|[[Oblivion:Imperial|Imperial]]
|{{ID|0002f108}}
|align=center|{{F}}
|-
|[[Oblivion:Breton|Breton]]
|align=center|PC-2
|{{ID|0002f10a}}
|{{M}}
|align=center|38 + (3+1.8)x(PC-3), PC=7-34
|align=center|188 + 3.5x(PC-3) (max=300)
|-
|[[Oblivion:Redguard|Redguard]]
|align=center|PC-3 (min=3)
|{{ID|0002f10b}}
|align=center|{{F}}
|align=center|48 + (3+1.8)x(PC-4), PC=8-26
|align=center|88 + 3.5x(PC-4) (max=250)
|-
|[[Oblivion:Breton|Breton]]
|align=center|PC-3
|{{ID|0002f10f}}
|{{M}}
|align=center|38 + (3+1.8)x(PC-4), PC=8-35
|align=center|188 + 3.5x(PC-4) (max=300)
|-
|[[Oblivion:Breton|Breton]]
|align=center|1
|{{ID|00033e8e}}
|{{M}}
|align=center|0
|align=center|122
|}

===Mythic Dawn Guards===
[[File:OB-npc-Mythic_Dawn_Guard.jpg|thumb|right]]

===Mythic Dawn Leaders===
{| class="wikitable"
! Name !! Race !! [[Oblivion:NPCs#Console_IDs|Ref / Base ID]] !! Level !! Items !! Magic
|-
! {{LE|Mythic Dawn Agent}}
| Imperial Breton Redguard || || PC-3 to -1 || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes || Bound MD Armor
|-
! {{LE|Mythic Dawn Guard}}
| Imperial Altmer Bosmer || || PC-3 to -1 ||Gold Mythic Dawn Robes Leather Boots Chance of Potion Chance of Enchanted Ring
| Bound MD Armor
|-
! {{LE|Mythic Dawn Leader}}
| Dunmer || || PC-0 (min 10) || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes || Bound MD Armor
|-
! {{LE|Storeroom Guard}}
| Imperial || || PC+2 || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes, Storeroom Key || Bound MD Armor
|-
![[Oblivion:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]]
| Imperial || || PC+1 || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes || Bound MD Armor
|}
*All Mythic Dawn Acolytes, Leaders, and Storeroom Guards wear regular shoes. However, these are randomly generated.

==Named Mythic Dawn Agents==
Not all Mythic Dawn agents dressed in the typical cultist garb. A large number walk amongst the general population across [[Oblivion:Cyrodiil|Cyrodiil]] and are indistinguishable from normal citizens. From there they are able to keep tabs on the goings-on in the cities and help progress the opening of even more [[Oblivion:Oblivion Gates|Oblivion Gates]] outside of the major cities and settlements. However, after the completion of [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|Dagon Shrine]], these agents will attack you on sight, until [[Oblivion:Light the Dragonfires|Light the Dragonfires]] is completed.
{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
! Member !! Location !! class=unsortable|Description
|-
|[[Oblivion:Astav Wirich|Astav Wirich]]|| [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]] || A [[Oblivion:Breton|Breton]] agent who appears during the [[Oblivion:The Path of Dawn|related quest]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Cingor|Cingor]]|| [[Oblivion:Leyawiin|Leyawiin]] || A [[Oblivion:Bosmer|Bosmer]] agent and also member of the [[Oblivion:Leyawiin Fighters Guild|local Fighters Guild]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Else God-Hater|Else God-Hater]]||[[Oblivion:Skingrad|Skingrad]] || A [[Oblivion:Nord|Nord]] agent who resides at the local [[Oblivion:West Weald Inn|inn]] in Skingrad.
|-
|[[Oblivion:Eugal Belette|Eugal Belette]]|| [[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] || A Breton agent and new resident within the city of Chorrol.
|-
|[[Oblivion:Hans Black-Nail|Hans Black-Nail]]|| [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]] || A Nord agent employed as a smith within the halls of [[Oblivion:Castle Bravil|Castle Bravil]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Isolde|Isolde]]|| [[Oblivion:Anvil|Anvil]] || A [[Oblivion:Redguard|Redguard]] agent disguised as a pirate at [[Oblivion:The Fo'c's'le|The Fo'c's'le]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Jearl|Jearl]]|| [[Oblivion:Bruma|Bruma]] || A Redguard spy who appears during the [[Oblivion:Spies|related quest]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Marguerite Diel|Marguerite Diel]]|| Imperial City || A Breton agent who appears after the [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|related quest]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Ranaline|Ranaline]]|| Bravil || An [[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]] agent employed as a cook at [[Oblivion:The Lonely Suitor Lodge|The Lonely Suitor Lodge]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Saveri Faram|Saveri Faram]]|| Bruma || A [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]] spy who appears during the [[Oblivion:Spies|related quest]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Styrbjorn|Styrbjorn]]|| Imperial City || A Nord agent who appears after the [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|related quest]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Tanasa Arano|Tanasa Arano]]|| Cheydinhal || A Dunmer agent empolyed as a charwoman at [[Oblivion:Riverview|Riverview]].
|-
|[[Oblivion:Tolisi Girith|Tolisi Girith]]|| Cheydinhal || A Dunmer agent employed as a maid at Riverview.
|-
|[[Oblivion:Ulen Athram|Ulen Athram]]|| Imperial City || A Dunmer agent who hides his secret from even his own [[Oblivion:Dralora Athram|wife]].
|}

* * In Paradise and will help you out.
* ** Will not change unless you release [[Oblivion:Jeelius|the prisoner]] or Steal the [[Oblivion:Mysterium Xarxes|Mysterium Xarxes]] in the [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|Dagon Shrine]] quest.
* *** Will attack on sight unless you choose to [[Oblivion:The Path of Dawn|meet the sponsor]] yourself.

|[[Oblivion:Raven Camoran|Raven Camoran]]***|| [[Oblivion:Sunken Sewers|Sunken Sewers]], Paradise || 
|-
|[[Oblivion:Ruma Camoran|Ruma Camoran]]**|| [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]], Paradise ||| 
|[[Oblivion:Harrow|Harrow]]**|| [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]] || A [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]] agent, and also warden, at the [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns#Zone_3:_Dagon_Shrine|Shrine of Dagon]]. 
|[[Oblivion:Eldamil|Eldamil]]*||[[Oblivion:Paradise|Paradise]] || An [[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]] agent, and former chief lieutenant, in the [[Oblivion:Mankar_Camoran%27s_Paradise#The_Forbidden_Grotto|Forbidden Grotto]].

==Related Quests==
*{{Quest Link|Tutorial}}
*{{Quest Link|Weynon Priory (quest)}}
*{{Quest Link|The Path of Dawn}}
*{{Quest Link|Dagon Shrine}}
*{{Quest Link|Spies}}
*{{Quest Link|Paradise}}
*{{Quest Link|Light the Dragonfires}}

Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Agents

2013-04-16T19:32:15Z

Kimi the Elf: update image

<noinclude>{{Oblivion Generic NPCs Trail}}
</noinclude>
{{incomplete|Needs details of Mythic Dawn Acolytes, Mythic Dawn Agents, Mythic Dawn Guards, Mythic Dawn Leader and Mythic Dawn Storeroom Guard and the Doorkeeper. Not full NPC summaries in most cases - more like the [[Oblivion:Bandit|Bandit]] / [[Oblivion:Marauder|Marauder]] pages}}
:''For information on the Mythic Dawn classes, see [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Agent (class)|Mythic Dawn Agent (class)]].''

'''Mythic Dawn Agents''' are members of the [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn|Mythic Dawn]] cult and followers of [[Oblivion:Mankar Camoran|Mankar Camoran]].
[[File:OB-npc-Acolytes.jpg|right|thumb|Mythic Dawn acolytes]]
[[File:OB-NPC-Agents.jpg|right|thumb|An agent in her summoned armor]]
[[File:OB-npc-Mythic Dawn Doorkeeper.jpg|thumb|right|The doorkeeper]]

While many members of the Mythic Dawn stay at the secret shrine in the [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]], some are posing as regular townsfolk. This is not an issue until your identity is revealed to the Mythic Dawn after your theft of the ''[[Oblivion:Mysterium Xarxes|Mysterium Xarxes]]'' during the [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|Dagon Shrine]] quest. After this, Mythic Dawn agents will attack on sight until the [[Oblivion:Light the Dragonfires|Light the Dragonfires]] quest is finished.

Usually, your only warning will be when they scream ''"For Lord Dagon!"'' before they summon their Daedric armor. The agents will attack regardless of the presence of other townsfolk or guardsmen and may kill townsfolk or guards in order to attack you.

The Mythic Dawn agents attack due to a 100 point faction-wide decrease in [[Oblivion:disposition|disposition]] when you steal the ''Mysterium Xarxes''. If an agent already had a 100 disposition toward you, it will not drop below 1, and they can still be engaged in conversation normally. Otherwise, using a combination of [[Oblivion:Charm|Charm]], [[Oblivion:Speechcraft|Speechcraft]], and/or 100% [[Oblivion:Chameleon|Chameleon]], you can raise an agent's disposition to prevent them from attacking you. Conversely, by deliberately lowering their disposition you can provoke these agents to attack you well before stealing the ''Mysterium Xarxes''. At the end of the Light the Dragonfires quest, the disposition drop is reversed. Therefore, any Mythic Dawn Agents who survive the Main Quest will no longer be hostile.

You may also encounter trouble with the agents before the Dagon Shrine quest. If you are, for example, traveling to Cloud Ruler Temple with Martin and Jauffre on the [[Oblivion:Weynon Priory (quest)|Weynon Priory Quest]] and you enter a town where a Mythic Dawn sleeper agent is walking around, Martin and Jauffre may attack and kill the agent.

If you opt to burgle their houses, you may discover Mythic Dawn paraphernalia in their house, such as a Mythic Dawn robe or one of the "''[[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Commentaries|Mythic Dawn Commentaries]]''" volumes.

It is also possible to discover the identity of Mythic Dawn agents by leaving Lake Arrius Caverns immediately after talking to the door guard (before talking to Harrow). If a townsperson is an agent, he or she will say, "Greet the new day, brother/sister," as you approach, but will still have the same dialogue options as normal.

The sleeper agents generally have unique dialogue and have new dialogue for city-specific topics; for example, [[Oblivion:Else God-Hater|Else God-Hater]] has new dialogue about [[Oblivion:Glarthir|Glarthir]].

The following table provides a full list of Mythic Dawn agents. Unless stated otherwise, the agents are sleeper agents.

* * In Paradise and will help you out.
* ** Will not change unless you release [[Oblivion:Jeelius|the prisoner]] or Steal the [[Oblivion:Mysterium Xarxes|Mysterium Xarxes]] in the [[Oblivion:Dagon Shrine|Dagon Shrine]] quest.
* *** Will attack on sight unless you choose to [[Oblivion:The Path of Dawn|meet the sponsor]] yourself.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
! Member !! Location !! Description
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Astav Wirich|Astav Wirich]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]] || A [[Oblivion:Breton|Breton]]
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Cingor|Cingor]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Leyawiin|Leyawiin]] || A [[Oblivion:Bosmer|Bosmer]] Fighters Guild member
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Eldamil|Eldamil]]'''*||[[Oblivion:Paradise|Paradise]] || An [[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]] in Mankar Camoran's Paradise; was previously one of the leaders of the Mythic Dawn.
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Else God-Hater|Else God-Hater]]'''||[[Oblivion:Skingrad|Skingrad]] || A [[Oblivion:Nord|Nord]] who stays at the [[Oblivion:West Weald Inn|West Weald Inn]]
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Eugal Belette|Eugal Belette]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] || A [[Oblivion:Breton|Breton]] newcomer
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Hans Black-Nail|Hans Black-Nail]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]] || A [[Oblivion:Nord|Nord]] living in Castle Bravil
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Harrow|Harrow]]'''**|| [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]] || A [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]]; Warden of the Shrine of Dagon.
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Isolde|Isolde]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Anvil|Anvil]] || A [[Oblivion:Redguard|Redguard]] pirate staying at [[Oblivion:The Fo'c's'le|The Fo'c's'le]]
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Jearl|Jearl]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Bruma|Bruma]] || A [[Oblivion:Redguard|Redguard]]; a Mythic Dawn [[Oblivion:Spies|spy]]
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Marguerite Diel|Marguerite Diel]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]] || A [[Oblivion:Breton|Breton]]; a Mythic Dawn assassin who only appears after the Dagon Shrine quest.
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Ranaline|Ranaline]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Bravil|Bravil]] || An [[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]]
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Raven Camoran|Raven Camoran]]'''***|| [[Oblivion:Sunken Sewers|Sunken Sewers]], [[Oblivion:Paradise|Paradise]] || An [[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]]; son of [[Oblivion:Mankar Camoran|Mankar Camoran]]; the Mythic Dawn recruiter.
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Ruma Camoran|Ruma Camoran]]'''**|| [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]], [[Oblivion:Paradise|Paradise]] ||| An [[Oblivion:Altmer|Altmer]]; daughter of [[Oblivion:Mankar Camoran|Mankar Camoran]]; the leader of the Mythic Dawn initiation rituals.
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Saveri Faram|Saveri Faram]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Bruma|Bruma]] || A [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]]; a Mythic Dawn [[Oblivion:Spies|spy]]
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Styrbjorn|Styrbjorn]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]] || A [[Oblivion:Nord|Nord]]; a Mythic Dawn assassin who only appears after the Dagon Shrine quest.
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Tanasa Arano|Tanasa Arano]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Cheydinhal|Cheydinhal]] || A [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]] working at Riverview
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Tolisi Girith|Tolisi Girith]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Cheydinhal|Cheydinhal]] || A [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]] working at Riverview
|-
|'''[[Oblivion:Ulen Athram|Ulen Athram]]'''|| [[Oblivion:Imperial City|Imperial City]] || A [[Oblivion:Dunmer|Dunmer]]
|}

==Generic Mythic Dawn Agents==
{{cleanup|Inaccurate and incomplete}}
{| class="wikitable"
! Name !! Race !! Level !! Items !! Magic
|-
! {{LE|Assassin}}
| Imperial Altmer || 3, 6 || Mythic Dawn Robes possible potion || possible Random Range spell Bound MD Armor
|-
! {{LE|Mythic Dawn Acolyte}}
| Imperial || PC-2 to -5 || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes || Random Range spell, Random Barrier Spell
|-
! {{LE|Mythic Dawn Agent}}
| Imperial Breton Redguard || PC-3 to -1 || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes || Bound MD Armor
|-
! {{LE|Mythic Dawn Guard}}
| Imperial Altmer Bosmer || PC-3 to -1 ||Gold Mythic Dawn Robes Leather Boots Chance of Potion Chance of Enchanted Ring
| Bound MD Armor
|-
! {{LE|Mythic Dawn Leader}}
| Dunmer || PC-0 (min 10) || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes || Bound MD Armor
|-
! {{LE|Storeroom Guard}}
| Imperial || PC+2 || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes, Storeroom Key || Bound MD Armor
|-
![[Oblivion:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]]
| Imperial || PC+1 || Gold, Mythic Dawn Robes || Bound MD Armor
|}

*All Mythic Dawn Acolytes, Leaders, and Storeroom Guards wear regular shoes. However, these are randomly generated.

File:OB-npc-Acolytes.jpg

2013-04-16T19:31:35Z

Kimi the Elf: Kimi the Elf moved page File:OB-NPC-Acolytes.jpg to File:OB-npc-Acolytes.jpg: NPC > npc

== Summary ==
Several Mythic Dawn cultists in the shrine in the Lake Arrius Caverns.
== Licensing: ==
{{uespimage}}
[[Category:Oblivion-NPC Images]]

UESPWiki:Image Requests

2013-04-16T18:48:55Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Using this Page */ Edit the examples to match how we request and fulfill requests.

On this page, editors may make '''specific image requests''' for use on article pages. Image requests should always pertain to content-related articles which are ready for the images; this is ''not'' a place to request images for personal use.

Avoid making general requests, such as "''more pictures of the Battle for Solitude''". A better request would be more specific, such as "''the Stormcloaks at the outer gate before the Battle for Solitude''". Try to keep requests brief, but if the subject matter isn't perfectly obvious, please explain your request by providing details, such as the context of the article where the image will be placed.

This page is meant for ''specific'' image requests for use on articles which already include a basic image. Note that the {{tl|NeedsImage}} template should be used on pages which are missing basic images, and is automatically added to pages missing the <code>image</code> parameter in Summary templates for creature, NPC, and place pages.

==Using this Page==
===Posting a Request===
Please post your requests under the [[#Images Requested|Images Requested]] section in a bulletlist format, and sign your post. Please add the most recent requests to the bottom of the list. If requesting an image for a game other than Skyrim, please specify the game in your request. If requesting multiple images for use on the same article, provide a link to the article page, group the related images into a list, and sign below the full list.

'''Example''':
<table style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Waking Nightmare]]'''
*[[Skyrim:Erandur|Erandur]] opening the way further into [[Skyrim:Nightcaller Temple|Nightcaller Temple]] during [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]]
—[[User:ABCface|ABCface]] 16:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

'''Article: [[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness]]'''
*The [[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Gatekeeper]] laying a beating on the adventurers at the [[Shivering:Gates_of_Madness|Gates of Madness]] at the start of [[Shivering:Through_the_Fringe_of_Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]] (Shivering Isles)
—[[User:Alphabetface|Alphabetface]] 19:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
</td></tr></table>

===Fulfilling a Request===
If you fulfill a request, please strike out the request by using <code><nowiki><s></nowiki></code> at the beginning and <code><nowiki></s></nowiki></code> at the end, then add a link to the uploaded image directly below the request with your signature included. Do not add the image to the related page; the editor who requested the image should do this themselves. You do not need to provide a thumbnail image. Make sure that the images you upload follow the site's [[Help:Images|image guidelines]].

'''Example''':
<table style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
'''Article: [[Skyrim:Waking Nightmare]]'''
*<s>[[Skyrim:Erandur|Erandur]] opening the way further into [[Skyrim:Nightcaller Temple|Nightcaller Temple]] during [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]]</s>
**[[:File:SR-quest-Waking Nightmare 1.jpg]] —[[User:Kimi the Elf|Kimi the Elf]] 08:38, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
—[[User:ABCface|ABCface]] 16:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

'''Article: [[Shivering:Through the Fringe of Madness]]'''
*<s>The [[Shivering:Gatekeeper|Gatekeeper]] laying a beating on the adventurers at the [[Shivering:Gates_of_Madness|Gates of Madness]] at the start of [[Shivering:Through_the_Fringe_of_Madness|Through the Fringe of Madness]] (Shivering Isles)</s>
**[[:File:SI-quest-Through the Fringe of Madness.jpg]] —[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] 23:22, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
—[[User:Alphabetface|Alphabetface]] 19:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
</td></tr></table>

===Removing a Request===
Only the editor who requested an image should remove the completed request. That editor should first add the new image to the corresponding article before removing the request from this page.

==Images Requested==
'''Articles: [[Skyrim:Markarth]], [[Skyrim:Solitude]], and [[Skyrim:Windhelm]]
*The maps of those three major cities. The images of the maps should also include the icons to the entrances of buildings. For an idea of what I'm talking about, visit [[Skyrim:Riften]] and [[Skyrim:Whiterun]] and click on their respective maps.
--[[User:Jake-518|Jake-518]] ([[User talk:Jake-518|talk]]) 07:01, 30 January 2013 (GMT)
: This seems to have already been done. I had to scroll in a bit so the other names would show up but the icons are definitely there. [[User:Kalbintion|ᴷᴬᴸᴯᴵᴻᵀᴵ□ᴻ]] 07:54, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
:: I found the map for Windhelm but I am unable to find the maps for Markarth or Solitude on this site. The Windhelm map is the way that I wanted to find it, so that's good news at least.--[[User:Jake-518|Jake-518]] ([[User talk:Jake-518|talk]]) 09:35, 16 February 2013 (GMT)
::: The maps for each can be accessed on the pages you linked to with a link titled "View on Map." It's in the right sidebar near the top. [[User:Kalbintion|ᴷᴬᴸᴯᴵᴻᵀᴵ□ᴻ]] 00:20, 17 February 2013 (GMT)
:::: Thanks, but I was hoping for something more detailed and higher resolution such as these: [[:File:SR-map-Whiterun.jpg]], [[:File:SR-Map-Riften.jpg]], [[:File:SR-Map-Windhelm.jpg]].--[[User:Jake-518|Jake-518]] ([[User talk:Jake-518|talk]]) 22:54, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

'''Articles: [[Skyrim:Unseen Visions]] and [[Skyrim:Passive Creatures]]'''
*A swarm of ancestor moths (largest swarm?). Try to ensure that the player character is tastefully dressed.
—[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:20, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Skyrim:Dremora]] ([[User:Eshe/Sandbox/4|Sandbox]])'''
* <s>An image of a Dremora archer</s>
** They don't seem to be used in the game. --[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 18:30, 14 March 2013 (GMT)
* An introductory image for the page (perhaps a shot with more than one Dremora pictured, or one at the Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon?)
⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 20:35, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Dragonborn:Clean Sweep]]'''
* An image of [[Dragonborn:Clean_Sweep#Elder_Othreloth|the conversation]] between Elder Othreloth and Adril, slight focus on Othreloth. Image caption: ''"When are you going to do something about our central Ancestral Tomb?"''
** While the dialogue can technically happen, Adril never seems to visit the temple. --[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 17:16, 15 March 2013 (GMT)
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 07:19, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Oblivion:Priory of the Nine (place)]]'''
* <s>An image of the [[Oblivion:Priory of the Nine (place)|Priory of the Nine]] in its decrepit state.</s>
** [[:File:OB-place-Priory of the Nine.jpg]] —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 02:26, 6 April 2013 (GMT)
--[[User:Dominus Arbitrationis| Ad Intellige]] [[User talk:Dominus Arbitrationis| Mecum loqui]] 21:16, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Dragonborn:Varona Nelas]]
* An image of Elynea and Drovas having a conversation
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 22:29, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Oblivion:Mythic Dawn Agent|Mythic Dawn Agent]] (Oblivion) ([[User:Helenaannevalentine/Sandbox 2|Sandbox]])'''
* A 1:1 image of an assassin encountered in the tutorial.
* A 1:1 image of a Mythic Dawn Acolyte in [[Oblivion:Lake Arrius Caverns|Lake Arrius Caverns]].
* A 4:3 image of Mythic Dawn Acolytes (-- to replace File:OB-NPC-Acolytes.jpg)
* A 1:1 image of a Mythic Dawn Guard.
These images will be much appreciated -[[User:Helenaannevalentine|helenaanne]]  [[User_talk:Helenaannevalentine|talk ♥]] 01:03, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

'''Articles: [[Lore:Castle Karstaag]] (and [[Dragonborn:Castle Karstaag Ruins]], I suppose)'''
* <s>A shot from Dragonborn showing more of the castle ruins.</s>
**[[:File:DB-place-Castle Karstaag Ruins 02.jpg]] --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 18:16, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
The current image on the DB page has worked fine as a placeholder, but I'd love to have a broader shot showing the overall structure. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 03:45, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
:I'm not sure the castle is even visible from the outside in Dragonborn... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:46, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
'''Article: [[Dragonborn:Shaman's Hut]]'''
* <s>Interior shot</s>
**[[:File:DB-interior-Shaman's Hut.jpg]] --[[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 18:16, 16 April 2013 (GMT)
--[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:41, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

'''Article: [[Dragonborn:Fahlbtharz]] ([[User:Roger/Sandbox06|Sandbox]])'''
* A 4:3 shot of the large flooded room with spinning gears, platforms, and tall towers. (Zone 1: ''Fahlbtharz'')
* A 4:3 shot capturing most of the corridor. (Zone 2: ''Fahlbtharz Corridor'')
--[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 18:41, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

==See Also==
*[[:Category:All Pages Needing Images]] - Pages marked with the {{tl|NeedsImage}} template are listed on this page.
*[[Help:Images]] - A summary of information related to uploading and editing images.
*[[UESPWiki:Shivering_Isles_Redesign_Project/Wanted_Images|Shivering Isles Redesign Project/Wanted Images]] - All images wanted for pages related to the Shivering Isles Redesign Project are listed on this page.

[[Category:UESP Administration]]

Lore:Argonian Names

2013-04-16T17:42:27Z

Kimi the Elf: Undo revision 1173818 by Jimeee (talk) - Usha is male

{{Lore Names}}
{{Lore:Appendices}}
{{trail|Appendices|Names|nocat=y}}
This is a list of all the known '''[[Lore:Argonian|Argonian]] names''', compiled from the games.

==Naming convention==

There are three types of Argonian names.
*1-word names
*Hyphenated Argonian names (sometimes the hyphen(s) are omitted)
*Tamrielic/Cyrodilic names, with or without hyphens
Argonians often refer to their non-Cyrodilic names as their "Black Marsh name."

In some cases, the Cyrodilic names are just translations of their Argonian hyphenated names. There are only two cases where we know both the Argonian and Cyrodilic names of a single individual, "Haj-Ei" ("Hides-His-Eyes") found in [[Morrowind:Suran|Suran]], and "Gah Julan" ("Great Benefit") outside of [[Morrowind:Dren Plantation|Dren Plantation]], both in [[Morrowind:Morrowind|Morrowind]]. In other cases, the Argonians were evidently given Cyrodilic names without any consideration for their Argonian names. The Cyrodilic name may be used preferentially when the person's Argonian name cannot be pronounced by non-Argonians.

==Male Argonian Names==
===[[Arena:Arena|Arena]] and [[Daggerfall:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]]===
*Given names for male Argonians in Arena and Daggerfall seem to consist of one of thirteen prefixes and one of thirteen suffixes.
*The 13 prefixes for male Argonian names are: Alex, Antigon, August, Calig, Claud, Demetr, Dioclet, German, Her, Jul, Ner, Pil, Tib
*The 13 suffixes for male Argonian names are: acles, andros, ate, erius, ian, iar, icus, ides, ios, ius, os, ula, us

'''Therefore, all of the male Argonian names in Arena and Daggerfall are:'''

{|
|Alexacles,||Alexandros,||Alexate,||Alexerius,||Alexian,||Alexiar,||Alexicus,||Alexides,||Alexios,||Alexius,||Alexos,||Alexula,||Alexus,
|-
|Antigonacles,||Antigonandros,||Antigonate,||Antigonerius,||Antigonian,||Antigoniar,||Antigonicus,||Antigonides,||Antigonios,||Antigonius,||Antigonos,||Antigonula,||Antigonus,
|-
|Augustacles,||Augustandros,||Augustate,||Augusterius,||Augustian,||Augustiar,||Augusticus,||Augustides,||Augustios,||Augustius,||Augustos,||Augustula,||Augustus,
|-
|Caligacles,||Caligandros,||Caligate,||Caligerius,||Caligian,||Caligiar,||Caligicus,||Caligides,||Caligios,||Caligius,||Caligos,||Caligula,||Caligus,
|-
|Claudacles,||Claudandros,||Claudate,||Clauderius,||Claudian,||Claudiar,||Claudicus,||Claudides,||Claudios,||Claudius,||Claudos,||Claudula,||Claudus,
|-
|Demetracles,||Demetrandros,||Demetrate,||Demetrerius,||Demetrian,||Demetriar,||Demetricus,||Demetrides,||Demetrios,||Demetrius,||Demetros,||Demetrula,||Demetrus,
|-
|Diocletacles,||Diocletandros,||Diocletate,||Diocleterius,||Diocletian,||Diocletiar,||Diocleticus,||Diocletides,||Diocletios,||Diocletius,||Diocletos,||Diocletula,||Diocletus,
|-
|Germanacles,||Germanandros,||Germanate,||Germanerius,||Germanian,||Germaniar,||Germanicus,||Germanides,||Germanios,||Germanius,||Germanos,||Germanula,||Germanus,
|-
|Heracles,||Herandros,||Herate,||Hererius,||Herian,||Heriar,||Hericus,||Herides,||Herios,||Herius,||Heros,||Herula,||Herus,
|-
|Julacles,||Julandros,||Julate,||Julerius,||Julian,||Juliar,||Julicus,||Julides,||Julios,||Julius,||Julos,||Julula,||Julus,
|-
|Neracles,||Nerandros,||Nerate,||Nererius,||Nerian,||Neriar,||Nericus,||Nerides,||Nerios,||Nerius,||Neros,||Nerula,||Nerus,
|-
|Pilacles,||Pilandros,||Pilate,||Pilerius,||Pilian,||Piliar,||Pilicus,||Pilides,||Pilios,||Pilius,||Pilos,||Pilula,||Pilus,
|-
|Tibacles,||Tibandros,||Tibate,||Tiberius,||Tibian,||Tibiar,||Tibicus,||Tibides,||Tibios,||Tibius,||Tibos,||Tibula,||Tibus
|}

===Redguard===
'''1-Word''': [[Redguard:Dreekius|Dreekius]]
===Morrowind===
'''1-Word''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Morrowind|Asum|Bunish|Busheeus|Chalureel|Chiwish|Chulz|Chuna|Haran|Hathei|Heedul|Huleeya|Huzei|Inee|Itan|Meer|Milos|Neetinei|Okaw|Peeradeeh|Rasha|Reemukeeus|Reesa|Seewul|Skeetul|Tanan|Teegla|Tul|Ukawei|Ula|Utadeek|Weeltul|Weer}} 
'''Hyp. Arg''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Morrowind|An-Zaw|Bun-Teemeeta|Dan-Ru|[[Tribunal:Effe-Tei|Effe-Tei]]|Eleedal-Lei|Gah Julan|Gam-Kur|Geel-Lah|Haj-Ei|Han-Tulm|Heem-La|Heir-Zish|Im-Kilaya|Jeelus-Tei|Jeer-Maht|J'Ram-Dar|Junal-Lei|[[Bloodmoon:Keerasa-Tan|Keerasa-Tan]]|Miun-Gei|Mush-Mere|Okan-Shei|Oleen-Gei|Olink-Nur|Reeh-Jah|Silm-Dar|Tee-Lan|Tim-Jush|Vistha-Kai|Wanan-Dum|Wih-Eius|Wud-Neeus|Wuleen-Shei}} 
'''Cyrodilic''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Morrowind|[[Bloodmoon:Also-He-Washes|Also-He-Washes]]|[[Bloodmoon:Basks-In-The-Sun|Basks-In-The-Sun]]|Big Head| Dreaded-Water|Fine-Mouth|Grey-Throat|[[Morrowind:Haj-Ei|Hides-His-Eyes]]|Hides-His-Foot|High-Heart|Morning-Star-Steals-Away-Clouds|Nelix Fly-Breath|Nine-Toes|Only-He-Stands-There|Skink-in-Tree's-Shade|Smart-Snake|Smokeskin-Killer|Stream-Murk|[[Bloodmoon:Swims-In-Swells|Swims-In-Swells]]|[[Tribunal:Ten-Tongues Weerhat|Ten-Tongues Weerhat]]|Tongue-Toad|Twice-Bitten|[[Bloodmoon:Wind-In-His-Hair|Wind-In-His-Hair]]}}

===Shadowkey===
'''1-Word''': [[Shadowkey:Sissithik|Sissithik]], [[Shadowkey:Yelnicin|Yelnicin]] 
'''Hyp. Arg''': [[Shadowkey:Porliss Caith|Porliss Caith]]
===Oblivion===
'''1-Word''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Oblivion|Amusei|[[Oblivion:Deeh the Scalawag|Deeh]]|Geel|Jeelius|Mahei|Otumeel|Pajeen|Reenum|Sakeepa|Saliith|Teekeeus|Teinaava|Usheeja|Wumeek|Yinz'r}} 
'''Hyp. Arg''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Oblivion|Ah-Malz|Ajum-Kajin|Beem-Kiurz|Dar Jee|Deetum-Ja|Dreet-Lai|Er-Teeus|Geem Jasaiin|Gin-Wulm|Jee-Tah|Jeetum-Ze|Oleed-Ei|[[Shivering:Pad-Ei|Pad-Ei]]|Tar-Meena|Tun-Zeeus|Weebam-Na}} 
'''Cyrodilic''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Oblivion|[[Shivering:Big Head|Big Head]]|Cat-Face|Grey-Throat|Hauls-Ropes-Faster|Hears-Voices-In-The-Air|Hides-His-Heart|Hunting Tail|[[Shivering:Raven Biter|Raven Biter]]|Right-Wind|Scar-Tail|Sings-Like-Thunder|Tooth-in-the-Sea}}
===Skyrim===
'''1-Word''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Skyrim|Deekus|Derkeethus|Madesi|Neetrenaza|[[Dragonborn:Usha|Usha]]|Veezara}} 
'''Hyp. Arg''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Skyrim|Beem-Ja|[[Skyrim:Brand-Shei|Brand-Shei]]*|Gulum-Ei|Ilas-Tei|Jaree-Ra|Talen-Jei|Teeba-Ei}} 
'''Cyrodilic''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Skyrim|Deep-In-His-Cups|Scouts-Many-Marshes|Stands-In-Shallows|Watches-The-Roots}}

<nowiki>*</nowiki> This character is, in fact, Dunmer. However, he was raised by Argonians and given an Argonian name, hence his inclusion in this list.

===Lore===
'''1-Word''': [[Lore:Death of a Wanderer|Deerkaza]], [[Lore:The Argonian Account, Book 4|Shehs]], [[Lore:The Argonian Account, Book 4|Tsleeixth]] 
'''Hyp. Arg''': 
'''Cyrodilic''': [[Lore:Death of a Wanderer|Dives-From-Below]], [[Lore:The Argonian Account, Book 3|Drawing-Flame]], [[Lore:The Argonian Account, Book 3|Furl-Of-Fresh-Leaves]], [[Lore:The Argonian Account, Book 3|Right-Foot-Rock]], [[Lore:The Sultry Argonian Bard, v1|Croon-Tail]]

==Female Argonian Names==
===Arena and Daggerfall===
*Given names for female Argonians in Arena and Daggerfall seem to consist of one of thirteen prefixes and one of thirteen suffixes.
*The 13 prefixes for female Argonian names are: Aph, Art, Ath, Dem, Hec, Her, Jud, Maced, Nik, Per, Tab, Ter, Tyr
*The 13 suffixes for female Argonian names are: atea, emis, ena, etera, ia, iana, icla, ina, ithea, omeda, onia, osyna, rodite

'''Therefore, all of the female Argonian names in Arena and Daggerfall are:'''
{|
|Aphatea,||Aphemis,||Aphena,||Aphetera,||Aphia,||Aphiana,||Aphicla,||Aphina,||Aphithea,||Aphomeda,||Aphonia,||Aphosyna,||Aphrodite,
|-
|Artatea,||Artemis,||Artena,||Artetera,||Artia,||Artiana,||Articla,||Artina,||Artithea,||Artomeda,||Artonia,||Artosyna,||Artrodite,
|-
|Athatea,||Athemis,||Athena,||Athetera,||Athia,||Athiana,||Athicla,||Athina,||Athithea,||Athomeda,||Athonia,||Athosyna,||Athrodite,
|-
|Dematea,||Dememis,||Demena,||Demetera,||Demia,||Demiana,||Demicla,||Demina,||Demithea,||Demomeda,||Demonia,||Demosyna,||Demrodite,
|-
|Hecatea,||Hecemis,||Hecena,||Hecetera,||Hecia,||Heciana,||Hecicla,||Hecina,||Hecithea,||Hecomeda,||Heconia,||Hecosyna,||Hecrodite,
|-
|Heratea,||Heremis,||Herena,||Heretera,||Heria,||Heriana,||Hericla,||Herina,||Herithea,||Heromeda,||Heronia,||Herosyna,||Herrodite,
|-
|Judatea,||Judemis,||Judena,||Judetera,||Judia,||Judiana,||Judicla,||Judina,||Judithea,||Judomeda,||Judonia,||Judosyna,||Judrodite,
|-
|Macedatea,||Macedemis,||Macedena,||Macedetera,||Macedia,||Macediana,||Macedicla,||Macedina,||Macedithea,||Macedomeda,||Macedonia,||Macedosyna,||Macedrodite,
|-
|Nikatea,||Nikemis,||Nikena,||Niketera,||Nikia,||Nikiana,||Nikicla,||Nikina,||Nikithea,||Nikomeda,||Nikonia,||Nikosyna,||Nikrodite,
|-
|Peratea,||Peremis,||Perena,||Peretera,||Peria,||Periana,||Pericla,||Perina,||Perithea,||Peromeda,||Peronia,||Perosyna,||Perrodite,
|-
|Tabatea,||Tabemis,||Tabena,||Tabetera,||Tabia,||Tabiana,||Tabicla,||Tabina,||Tabithea,||Tabomeda,||Tabonia,||Tabosyna,||Tabrodite,
|-
|Teratea,||Teremis,||Terena,||Teretera,||Teria,||Teriana,||Tericla,||Terina,||Terithea,||Teromeda,||Teronia,||Terosyna,||Terrodite,
|-
|Tyratea,||Tyremis,||Tyrena,||Tyretera,||Tyria,||Tyriana,||Tyricla,||Tyrina,||Tyrithea,||Tyromeda,||Tyronia,||Tyrosyna,||Tyrrodite
|}

===Morrowind===
'''1-Word''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Morrowind|Ahaht|Akish|Banalz|Beekatan|Eutei|Gilm|Gish|Hul|Kasa|Milah|Nakuma|Neesha|Nuralg|Nush|Okur|Onasha|Shatalg|Tasha|Wusha}} 
'''Hyp. Arg''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Morrowind|Ah-Meesei|Am-Ra|An-Deesei|Chanil-Lee|Cheesh-Meeus|Deesh-Meeus|El-Lurasha|Ereel-Lei|Gih-Ja|Jeed-Ei|Kal-Ma|Keel-Raniur|Meeh-Mei|Meen-Sa|Mim-Jeen|Muz-Ra|Nam-La|Olank-Neeus|On-Wan|On-Wazei|Seen-Rei}} 
'''Cyrodilic''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Morrowind|Breech-Star|[[Bloodmoon:Snail-Tail|Snail-Tail]]|Tern-Feather|Travelling-New-Woman}}
===Oblivion===
'''1-Word''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Oblivion|[[Shivering:Beelei|Beelei]]|Beewos|Bejeen|Deetsan|Druja|Marz|Numeen|Ocheeva|Pasha|Rana|Shaleez|Skaleel|Witseidutsei}} 
'''Hyp. Arg''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Oblivion|Bur-Meema|Dar-Ma|Hal-Liurz|Kud-Ei|Mach-Na|Seed-Neeus|[[Shivering:Sheer Meedish|Sheer Meedish]]|Tar-Meena|Weedum-Ja}} 
'''Cyrodilic''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Oblivion|City-Swimmer|On-Staya Sundew|Quill-Weave|[[Shivering:Runs-In-Circles|Runs-In-Circles]]|[[Shivering:Tall-Trees-Falling|Tall-Trees-Falling]]|[[Shivering:Wide-Eye|Wide-Eye]]}}
===Skyrim===
'''1-Word''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Skyrim|Deeja|Keerava|Shahvee|Wujeeta}} 
'''Cyrodilic''': {{LinkList|ns_base=Skyrim|From-Deepest-Fathoms|Takes-In-Light}}

===Lore===
'''1-Word''': [[Lore:The Argonian Account, Book 4|Nomu]] 
'''Cyrodilic''': [[Lore:The Lusty Argonian Maid, v1|Lifts-Her-Tail]]

==Argonian Family Names==
Since [[Morrowind:Morrowind|Morrowind]], Argonians do not as a rule have family names, but in the earlier games they did.
===Arena and Daggerfall===
*Surnames for Argonians in Arena and Daggerfall seem to consist of one of thirteen prefixes and one of thirteen suffixes.
*The 13 prefixes for Argonian surnames are: Andro, Augus, Ca, Cae, Cali, Gal, Mag, Me, Ni, Per, Theo, Tiber, Xer
*The 13 suffixes for Argonian surnames are: cles, des, dorus, gulus, lus, mean, mus, nes, sar, seus, sion, ssius, tus

'''Therefore, all of the Argonian surnames in Arena and Daggerfall are:'''

{|
|Androcles,||Androdes,||Androdorus,||Androgulus,||Androlus,||Andromean,||Andromus,||Andrones,||Androsar,||Androseus,||Androsion,||Androssius,||Androtus,
|-
|Auguscles,||Augusdes,||Augusdorus,||Augusgulus,||Auguslus,||Augusmean,||Augusmus,||Augusnes,||Augussar,||Augusseus,||Augussion,||Augusssius,||Augustus,
|-
|Cacles,||Cades,||Cadorus,||Cagulus,||Calus,||Camean,||Camus,||Canes,||Casar,||Caseus,||Casion,||Cassius,||Catus,
|-
|Caecles,||Caedes,||Caedorus,||Caegulus,||Caelus,||Caemean,||Caemus,||Caenes,||Caesar,||Caeseus,||Caesion,||Caessius,||Caetus,
|-
|Calicles,||Calides,||Calidorus,||Caligulus,||Calilus,||Calimean,||Calimus,||Calines,||Calisar,||Caliseus,||Calision,||Calissius,||Calitus,
|-
|Galcles,||Galdes,||Galdorus,||Galgulus,||Gallus,||Galmean,||Galmus,||Galnes,||Galsar,||Galseus,||Galsion,||Galssius,||Galtus,
|-
|Magcles,||Magdes,||Magdorus,||Maggulus,||Maglus,||Magmean,||Magmus,||Magnes,||Magsar,||Magseus,||Magsion,||Magssius,||Magtus,
|-
|Mecles,||Medes,||Medorus,||Megulus,||Melus,||Memean,||Memus,||Menes,||Mesar,||Meseus,||Mesion,||Messius,||Metus,
|-
|Nicles,||Nides,||Nidorus,||Nigulus,||Nilus,||Nimean,||Nimus,||Nines,||Nisar,||Niseus,||Nision,||Nissius,||Nitus,
|-
|Percles,||Perdes,||Perdorus,||Pergulus,||Perlus,||Permean,||Permus,||Pernes,||Persar,||Perseus,||Persion,||Perssius,||Pertus,
|-
|Theocles,||Theodes,||Theodorus,||Theogulus,||Theolus,||Theomean,||Theomus,||Theones,||Theosar,||Theoseus,||Theosion,||Theossius,||Theotus,
|-
|Tibercles,||Tiberdes,||Tiberdorus,||Tibergulus,||Tiberlus,||Tibermean,||Tibermus,||Tibernes,||Tibersar,||Tiberseus,||Tibersion,||Tiberssius,||Tibertus,
|-
|Xercles,||Xerdes,||Xerdorus,||Xergulus,||Xerlus,||Xermean,||Xermus,||Xernes,||Xersar,||Xerseus,||Xersion,||Xerssius,||Xertus
|}

Skyrim talk:Specialty Gear

2013-04-14T12:04:08Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Falmer Supple Bow */ reply

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||Nov. 2011 - Sep. 2012
}}

== Amulet Location(s)? ==

I'd like to add in locations to each of these amulets as I go since I accidentally sold one of mine (Talos) and would really like to get another. I know there are multiple of each in the game, but i'm not sure if they are randomly assigned or permanently in specific locations. Any help on this would be great. Thank you.[[User:Cpjuggs24|Cpjuggs24]] 06:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

:They are random drops/loot. I've gotten quite a few of them from random chests. I also seem to recall a lot of the Stormcloak soldiers carrying them (mostly Talos) during the Imperial Legion quest lin {{uns|74.215.42.102|20:36, December 13, 2011}}

::Can anyone confirm if they have an Amulet of Arkay in their Proudspire Manor safe? It might be a fixed spawn location {{uns|75.80.97.155|05:39, January 1, 2012}}

:::The Amulet of Talos is not a guaranteed find at the Shrine of Talos West of Winterhold. {{unsigned|216.252.35.185|23:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)}}

::::I also could not find an Amulet of Talos at the Shrine West of Winterhold. Found a Dwarven Battleaxe, an Alchemist's Satchel with a Human Heart inside, and a One-Handed Skill book but no Amulet. [[Special:Contributions/184.63.126.54|184.63.126.54]] 03:01, 20 October 2012 (GMT)
::::: Also confirmed. It seems the only things always at that location are a leveled Battleaxe, an Alchemist's Satchel and the One-Handed skillbook.--[[User:DaedalusMachina|DaedalusMachina]] ([[User talk:DaedalusMachina|talk]]) 07:25, 16 December 2012 (GMT)

== The infamous full-face Imperial Helmet. ==

The page has this description for the three known locations:

''This is a full-face version of the Imperial Helmet. One can be found during Scoundrel's Folly. There is also one just inside the entrance of Meridia's Temple next to a desecrated corpse. A much more obscured one can also be found at a Shrine of Talos on a mountaintop, following the path south of Froki's Shack.''

In the description for the third location, ''"A much more obscured one can also be found..."'' is not helpful or informative. It's a subjective evaluation, and makes it sound like this location is especially difficult to get to or that the helmet is hard to find. That really isn't true. The location is extreme easy to get to and the helmet is out in plain sight, as is the rest of the loot at this shrine. I'd say it's probably the easiest location to obtain this helmet, since you don't have to initiate a quest or enter an interior cell to get to it.

I only mention this because this particular style of helmet seems to be a recurring topic with gamers asking where to find one. The way the info on the page reads makes it seem like the third location is the most difficult option for obtaining this helmet and could send a gamer along a worse or more difficult path for a bit of loot.[[User:Evil-i|Evil-i]] 21:58, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

:I'm the kind of person who likes knowing where to find as many as copies as I could ever possibly need of a given piece of armor or weapon in Skyrim. So the one at the Shrine of Talos respawns right?--[[User:Playerseekingbugs|Playerseekingbugs]] ([[User talk:Playerseekingbugs|talk]]) 22:25, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

::(PS3 user) Yes, it does.[[User:MrC|MrC]] ([[User talk:MrC|talk]]) 22:56, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

== Amulet of Julianos location ==

The location given on the page at Fort Amol seems to be problematic. If I go to the location via <code>player.moveto 000e68d1</code> it puts me to the shrine, but no amulet to see. In one reload attempt I could later find it nearby on the floor, the fight with a magic user seems to have disloged the amulet. Is the amulet initially stuck in the texture or is there anything else I am missing? --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 04:01, 15 September 2012 (GMT)

:This is especially problematic for me because a Shrine of Julianos is the only thing missing from my homestead. I use to see them all the time early in the game, before any of the DLC came out. Now that I'm at level cap and I actually need one, I can't find any. It's the only one that never seems to be fore sale at Radiant Raiment either. Do these only spawn as loot or in shops at low level? [[User:SonGoharotto|SonGoharotto]] ([[User talk:SonGoharotto|talk]]) 17:26, 27 December 2012 (GMT)
::Aside from a ''very'' few guaranteed locations, all divine amulets are only random, as far as I know. General goods merchants usually have 2 items at 25% chance which can either be unenchanted jewelry or a divine amulet. You may have to cheat to get one. You can use console commands if on a PC, or on a console you can save, attack the vendor, and reload to force an inventory reset. [[User:Quillan|Quillan]] ([[User talk:Quillan|talk]]) 19:37, 27 December 2012 (GMT)
:::What would need testing is what happens if Fort Amol is taken over during the civil war. The shrine disappears and the amulet may be up for grabbing. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 00:19, 30 December 2012 (GMT)

== Vampire Hood ==

I've been trying to find this, been playing Dawnguard for 100 hours and haven't come across it yet on the Vampire side >_> all the vampire's I've ever fought had no hoods. How is this so hard to find ffs. {{uns2|13:33, 3 October 2012‎|76.64.194.183}}
:I found one on the "visiting advisor" or whatever he's called in the radiant quest to protect the Jarl. He had a full "set" of vampire clothes; robes, hood, boots and gloves. Never found it anywhere else though. [[User:AyaHawkeye|AyaHawkeye]] ([[User talk:AyaHawkeye|talk]]) 16:00, 15 October 2012 (GMT)
::Yes, according to game data that is the only chance to get it. [[Skyrim:Rogen|Rogen]] would wear one too, but he doesn't appear in the game. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 16:11, 15 October 2012 (GMT)

== Suggested Split ==

This page is huge. I think it would be a good idea to copy [[Oblivion:Specialty Gear]] and split it into multiple pages. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 15:33, 14 October 2012 (GMT)
:Several of the item pages are currently huge ([[Skyrim:Generic Magic Apparel|Generic Magic Apparel]] is really huge), and as outlined at [[Skyrim_talk:Animal_Parts#Kothyr.27s_Head|Animal Parts#Kothyr's Head]] I'd like to split off all items that can only be gained through console use to one page, and all items that can only be used by NPCs to another page. This alone might not help this page much, but I think those suggested splits should be coordinated a bit, so I mention it here. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 15:49, 14 October 2012 (GMT)
::For what it's worth, I agree, but bear in mind that [[Oblivion:Specialty Gear]] is a lot different from this page. They were dealing with mostly gear that was only worn by a few NPC's or was unacessable to the player, while a lot of the specialty gear that we have is very much an integral part of the game. And what do we do with [[Skyrim:Unique Items]]? I understand that unique is supposed to contain only items found in one place, but there seem to be items of both pages that could be argued for the other page--[[User:Anil|Anil]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 16:23, 14 October 2012 (GMT)

:::I've copied a bunch of stuff off onto [[Skyrim:Unobtainable Items]], both from here and from [[Skyrim:Unique Items]]. Needs a look-over still, and we can probably remove statements such as "Cannot be found in-game", since that would apply to ALL items on that page. (Though we may wish to distinguish between those that are in the game and just not visible to the player vs. those which could be equipped by the player except that they're not accessible except via console.) Also things like tempering might be irrelevant - you can't temper what you can't see or acquire, after all. Once it's all good, we can then remove said items from other pages, so they ''only'' appear there. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:53, 28 October 2012 (GMT)

::::Thinking a bit more about it, I guess a third page would be "Item Templates". This are the items with a description of "cannot be obtained unenchanted". They are used by the game only to define other items. It looks like item templates were not added from Dawnguard on, so we might want to document some missing ones. Often enchanted versions link to the base template. I think we should really create three pages instead of another page that's just too big. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 20:03, 28 October 2012 (GMT)

:::::There's a few "template" items in vanilla Skyrim, notably the [[Skyrim:Staves#Unenchanted_Staves|Unenchanted Staves]], which I also need to add to the page, hold on... Okay, thanks for waiting. Not sure how many other items we're talking about here though. Don't have access to Dawnguard data to look for these things. Anyhow, given that I expect this page to have relatively low traffic (How many people really care about items they can't find or use in the game?), it's lets of a problem if it gets really big. The idea here is mainly to get those items ''off'' of the other pages, specifically ''because'' the average visitor probably doesn't care about them, but we feel like they should be documented somewhere anyhow. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 20:14, 28 October 2012 (GMT)

::::::Yes, the main goal is to get those items from the other pages. But this doesn't mean we need to create another hard to maintain and navigate article. If we are going through all the moving around, we might as well try to get it right the first time. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 21:56, 28 October 2012 (GMT)

::::::: For what it's worth, I've started playing Skyrim again and found myself playing around with console commands and like having all this information available. Found it very helpful. I did not mind the large page as there is the TOC with links. But I can't comment on how hard it is to maintain. FYI - I really like how the items are organized along with the icons. Nice improvement. [[User:Maeve4444|Maeve4444]] ([[User talk:Maeve4444|talk]]) 04:47, 2 December 2012 (GMT)

:::::::: BTW - Thank you for the Winterhold Shield code. I always hang the shields in my houses, (pickpocket or loot dead guard) but Winterhold guards don't carry a shield. Every game I would be bummed I was missing that one shield. Bottom-line, I strongly agree that the information should be documented. I consider myself the average player and don't think I'm unusual in decorating my houses with my trophies (armor etc). [[User:Maeve4444|Maeve4444]] ([[User talk:Maeve4444|talk]]) 05:25, 2 December 2012 (GMT)

::::::::: FYI - the guards in Winterhold (the city) may not carry shields, but other guards in Winterhold (the hold) do. Try looking for [[Skyrim:Whistling_Mine|Whistling_Mine]]. There may be others as well, that one I just confirmed in the CK. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 13:55, 2 December 2012 (GMT)

{{od}}Why don't we put the armors and weapons from here on the respective [[Skyrim:Armor]] or [[Skyrim:Weapons]] page? At least for the obtainable items I think it would be helpfull to compare them to the others. Some of the gear on this pages is not smithable as well (Fur Armor / Skyforge Steel Weapons), and it would be a reasonable splitting to put the obtainable Weapons/Armor on those pages, the unobtainable ones to the [[Skyrim:Unobtainable Items]], the amulets of the divines for example to [[Skyrim:Jewelry#Amulets]], and so on [[User:SarthesArai|SarthesArai]] ([[User talk:SarthesArai|talk]]) 11:50, 1 January 2013 (GMT)

== Dawnguard weapons ==

How much extra damage do the dawnguard weapons do against vampires? {{unsigned|82.73.72.148|29 October 2012‎}}
:Dawnguard weapons and armor add the DLC1DawnguardItemPerk while equipped. That perk has a description of "Dawnguard weapons do extra damage against vampires, and Dawnguard armor protects better vampires." - yes there's missing an "against". I'm not sure how the game makes sure only Vampires are affected, but those are the values listed in the CK for the perk:

{| class="wikitable"
|-
| Modify Tempering || Multiply Value || 2.00
|-
| Calculate Weapon Damage || Add Value || 5.00
|-
| Mod Incoming Damage || Multiply Value || 0.75
|-
| Mod Incoming Spell Magnitude || Multiply Value || 0.75
|-
| Mod Bashing Damage || Add Value || 5.00
|-
| Modify Armor Rating || Multiply Value || 1.20
|}
:--[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 16:26, 29 October 2012 (GMT)

== Thalmor ==

Dont you think that the glass armor should be added for Thalmor because they wear that also? just sayin [[Special:Contributions/70.181.100.226|70.181.100.226]] 20:45, 11 November 2012 (GMT)

:The list in that section is for faction specific armor, you'll notice that ordinary Elven armor has been omitted too. Glass armor can be found on lots of NPCs in the game, not just Thalmor. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:51, 11 November 2012 (GMT)

== Imperial Shield (Heavy) Location? ==

Anyone know where I can find an Imperial Shield (heavy) without crafting it?
Cheers -HK {{unsigned|87.86.169.66|11:56, 28 November 2012 (GMT)}}
:They are carrried by several NPCs and there are 16 locations where they can be found. One of them is at [[Skyrim:Fort Snowhawk|Fort Snowhawk]] on a table near the southeastern wall {{Map Link|x=-54820|y=69796|zoom=17}}. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 12:55, 28 November 2012 (GMT)
::Perfect! Thanks -HK [[Special:Contributions/87.86.169.66|87.86.169.66]] 10:37, 7 December 2012 (GMT)

== Blades Armor ==

This page says that blades armor can be found in the chest in Sky Haven, and on "any Blades recruits you come across." This statement is confusing... you cannot trade Blades recruits for their armor. Does this mean they would have to die? It appears to me that the set you're given from the chest is the only armor you have access to. Any help? In any case, the description should probably be reworded to be more helpful {{uns2|22:46, 6 December 2012‎|68.106.135.147}}

:(PS3 user) If you want their armor without killing them, paralyze them and then use pickpocket. Their entire inventory will show up in a moment of complete susceptibility and you can steal what you want. If you want to give them different armor to wear, you could use the same opportunity to place items into their inventory. Hope this helps.[[User:MrC|MrC]] ([[User talk:MrC|talk]]) 18:01, 10 March 2013 (GMT)

::That's all well and good (if the patches haven't fixed that, but I think they have), but that still only gives you four, maybe even six sets if it works on Esbern and Delphine. Are there any respawning pieces of armor and/or a respawning sword anywhere?--[[User:Playerseekingbugs|Playerseekingbugs]] ([[User talk:Playerseekingbugs|talk]]) 22:31, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

:::In my game, their Blades gear respawned (can't remember how long it takes), so if it hasn't been patched, you can do the paralyze/pickpocket trick for as many sets of armor and/or swords as you want. As far as other locations, I'm not aware of any other places to get the armor, and there's only one other NPC I know of who has a sword--Fultheim at Nightgate Inn.[[User:MrC|MrC]] ([[User talk:MrC|talk]]) 22:54, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

::::I don't have the perks to take equipped things. I tried giving the ones I can get to follow me better armor so they'll unequip their current stuff, and that worked. The Blades armor set seems to be their new base armor set, but paralysis allows me to take the unequipped armor from them as they get. Thanks for the tip. Now I'll just have to see if they respawn for me. I guess I don't need that many, copies of their equipment (I'd just hoard most of it). I just like to know where I can get as many copies of the armor and weapons that are not craftable and not one-time unique items as I would ever want if I decided to use them for a little variation from my usual Daedric and Dragon equipment. Edit: I just took the last piece of armor I used to get my test subject to stop wearing her Blades Armor, and her entire Blades set immediately respawned, but we'll still have to see about those swords over time. I waited 10 days in one of my houses, but only the weapons on the table in the side room respawned (save Dragonbane of course). The rack of swords apparently doesn't.--[[User:Playerseekingbugs|Playerseekingbugs]] ([[User talk:Playerseekingbugs|talk]]) 00:57, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::You're welcome, and nice variation on getting them to unequip their Blades armor. I don't think the rack ever respawned in my game. And I may have been mistaken about the swords respawning on the recruits; I just remember having a lot of them (over ten). I probably got them from the rack and forgot. [[User:MrC|MrC]] ([[User talk:MrC|talk]]) 13:26, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

== Changes to Silver Weapon Effect ==

Ok can someone check in the CK with Dragonborn installed to see if the Silver Weapons bonus damage has been altered. Because since installing Dragonborn I've noticed that they are doing at least 30 bonus damage now not 20 like before. [[User:Lord Eydvar|Lord Eydvar]] [[User Talk:Lord Eydvar|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lord Eydvar|Contribs]] 21:01, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

:Okay, so looking at it, what happens when you equip a silver weapon is a script runs that adds a perk "SilverPerk" to your character. This perk seems to add 20 to the ''base damage'' when fighting undead or weres. I suspect from the way its set up that this damage increase occurs ''before'' other damage boosts, so it might be affected by your one-handed or two-handed skill and relevant perks. Doesn't seem to be anything changed by DB - the number is 20 either way. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 21:58, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

== Vampire Lord Armor ==

(PS3 user) Is this obtainable as a member of the Dawnguard? I've played through the main questline and seen the standard and royal versions of vampire armor, but never the "lord" version. Who wears this? [[User:MrC|MrC]] ([[User talk:MrC|talk]]) 21:50, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

:While I haven't confirmed this by a more indepth look, I believe it's basically a test item for the royal version of the armor and can't be acquired under normal conditions. This is evident due to it being clothing and not armor, its weird weight, and the fact that it takes up the ring slot and not the body slot (like the royal version). --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 21:59, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

::Thanks for checking. I'll strike it from my "collect" list. [[User:MrC|MrC]] ([[User talk:MrC|talk]]) 22:04, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

:::It isn't used in-game except in a container in a test cell containing all weapons and armor in Dawnguard. It contributes to an outfit, but that is also unused. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 22:30, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

== Imperial Light armor craftable in 1.9 ==

It's now craftable in the 1.9 patch. Anyone on PC know the recipes? --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 19:07, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

== Ancient Nord Helmet and Mannequins ==

(PS3 user) Does anyone know of a way to get the Ancient Nord Helmet to display on mannequins? It's either invisible or not equipped on the mannequins in my game. Is this a bug for everyone? [[User:MrC|MrC]] ([[User talk:MrC|talk]]) 16:43, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

== Poacher's Axe ==

(PS3 user) The Poacher's Axe is listed on both the "Specialty Gear" page ''and'' the "Unique Items" page. Between the two, I think it belongs on the latter. [[User:MrC|MrC]] ([[User talk:MrC|talk]]) 17:04, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

== Falmer Supple Bow ==

The Falmer Supple Bow can't be obtained in the game. Is is really appropriate to have it flagged as a bug that it can't be tempered? Seems like a bit of a moot point to me. [[User:Arthmoor|Arthmoor]] ([[User talk:Arthmoor|talk]]) 06:16, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

:Well I think you could still obtain one using the console? I think its fine how it is, if it was just left blank people would probably assume the information is just missing and try to fill it in. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 12:04, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim:Slow Time

2013-04-13T02:46:44Z

Kimi the Elf: fix

{{Shout Summary
|icon=SR-icon-shout-Slow Time.png
|name=Slow Time
|id=00048ac9
|quote=Shout at time, and command it to obey, as the world around you stands still.
|words=TiiD KLO UL
|wordid=00048aca 00048acb 00048acc
|letters1=T3D
|letters2=KLO
|letters3=UL
|translation=Time sand eternity
|cooldown=30 45 60
|info1=Slows time to 30% of normal speed for 8 seconds.
|info2=Slows time to 20% of normal speed for 12 seconds.
|info3=Slows time to 10% of normal speed for 16 seconds.
|location1=[[Skyrim:Hag's End|Hag's End]]
|location2=[[Skyrim:Korvanjund|Korvanjund]] (quest locked)
|location3=[[Skyrim:Labyrinthian|Labyrinthian]] (quest locked)
}}

'''Slow Time''' is a [[Skyrim:shout|shout]] that slows down time. You are also affected, but not to the same extent. While slow time is active, all creatures and NPCs move much more slowly. This allows you to hit or move faster than normal as you are not affected as much as others.

{{NewLeft}}
== Related Quests ==
* {{Quest Link|The Jagged Crown (Imperial)|The Jagged Crown (Imperial)}}
* {{Quest Link|The Jagged Crown (Stormcloaks)|The Jagged Crown (Stormcloaks)}}
* {{Quest Link|The Staff of Magnus}}

{{NewLine}}

== Word Wall Translations ==
{{WordWall
|wordwall1=VEGUNTHAR WahLaaN QETHSEGOL BORMahIL VahRUKT HUNGUNTHAR TiiD NaaK KRIaaN SE JUNNESEJER KRONiiD SE DUNKREATH
|translation1=Vegunthar raised (this) stone (in his) father's memory, Hungunthar Time-Eater, slayer of (the) Kings of the East, conqueror of Dunkreath.
|wordwall2=HET Mah SahROT KONahRIK aaBAN KiiN SE KLO SE ALIKR PRaaN NU DENEK KeiZaaL
|translation2=Here fell mighty Warlord Aaban Child of (the) sands of Alik'r; rest now in (the) soil (of) Skyrim.
|wordwall3=QETHSEGOL VahRUKIV KENDOV SE VED RONAX WEN SIL NU YORiiK RINDaaR SE SOVNGARDE Pah UL
|translation3=(This) stone commemorates (the) warriors of the black regiment whose souls now march in the plains of Sovngarde for all eternity.}}

== Notes ==
*You cannot zoom in while aiming with a bow with the ''[[Skyrim:Eagle Eye|Eagle Eye]]'' perk while under the effects of the Slow Time shout.
*Shout duration is affect by ''[[Skyrim:Stability|Stability]]'' perk.

== Bugs ==
{{Bug|After getting the first word of the Slow Time shout from elsewhere, the word wall at Hag's End may not work properly. The wall's sound effects can be heard but no word is learned when the wall is approached.|confirmed=1}}
**{{Pc22}} PC players can learn the missing second word using the following console command: <code>player.teachword 48ACB</code> (or 48ACC for the third word). If you are on Arngeir's miscellaneous quest to "Find the Word of Power in Hag's End", you can then use the console command <code>setstage FreeformHighHrothgarA 20</code> to mark that as finished. The word wall will remain bugged, though, and continues to play the sound effects.
{{Bug|At times, the Slow Time shout may last much longer than usual.|confirmed=1}}

{{Shouts in Skyrim}}

Oblivion:Zombie

2013-04-13T02:28:16Z

Kimi the Elf: better link

{{Trail|Creatures|Undead}}
[[File:OB-creature-Zombie.jpg|thumb|right|A Zombie]]
'''Zombies''' are [[OB:Undead|undead]] with mottled, muddy green flesh, various deep and fatal-looking wounds, and they are often missing an arm. Zombies can be deceiving for players having not encountered one before, as they ''can'' run and give chase, and have a distinctive groaning voice when they detect prey.
All zombies drop [[Oblivion:Mort Flesh|Mort Flesh]] (except for [[Oblivion:Deranged Zombie|Deranged Zombies]], which drop [[Oblivion:Bonemeal|Bonemeal]]). They rely upon unarmed melee attacks, which are made more dangerous by the many [[Oblivion:Disease|diseases]] that zombies can carry. All zombies have the following weaknesses, resistances, and abilities:
* 60% [[Oblivion:Weakness to Fire|weakness to fire]]
* 30% [[Oblivion:Resist Frost|resist frost]]
* 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Poison|resist poison]] (immune to poison)
* 30% [[Oblivion:Resist Magic|resist magic]]
* permanent [[Oblivion:Water Breathing|Water Breathing]] ability
Higher level zombies (Headless Zombies and Dread Zombies) have more health, more powerful attacks, and more dangerous diseases. Also, Dread Zombies are able to regenerate health.
Zombies have a 25% chance of carrying one of the following diseases:
* Ataxia, Brown Rot, Dampworm, Droops, Greenspore, Helljoint, Rockjoint, Rust Chancre, Witbane

Headless zombies have a 33% chance of carrying one of the following diseases:
* Black-Heart Blight, Chanthrax Blight, Chills, Collywobbles, Rattles, Serpiginous Dementia, Swamp Fever, Wither, Yellow Tick

All dread zombies carry the disease Astral Vapors, which is particularly nasty because it causes [[Oblivion:Stunted Magicka|Stunted Magicka]], [[Oblivion:Weakness to Magic|Weakness to Magic]], and [[Oblivion:Damage Magicka|Damage Magicka]]. This effect ignores disease resistance (unless you have the [[Tes4Mod:Unofficial Oblivion Patch|Unofficial Oblivion Patch]] installed). Your magicka will not regenerate until you [[Oblivion:Cure Disease|cure]] yourself.

{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!width=20%| Creature
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Zombie|exname=Standard Zombie}}'''
{{ID|00025E6E 00025E5E 00025E55 00025E4F 000C8BD3}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||80||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|Lesser
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Headless Zombie|exname=Standard Headless Zombie}}''' {{ID|00025E4E 00025E6F 00025E4D 00025E4C 000C8C2C}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||175||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*27pts melee, unarmed
|Common
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Dread Zombie|exname=Standard Dread Zombie}}''' {{ID|0009851B 0009F955 0009F956 0009F957}}
|Minor Loot Mort Flesh||340||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*38pts melee, unarmed
*Regenerate health 5 pts/sec
|Greater

|}

==Unique Zombies==
Unique zombies are zombies that are only found in a specific place at a specific time.
{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!width=20%| Creature
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|rowspan=2|'''{{Linkable Entry|Motierre Zombie}}''' {{ID|00071B98}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||15×lvl {{ID|Max:150}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10+(lvl/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Max:15)}}
|<=Common[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:+0]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the first of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''Motierre Zombie''' {{ID|00071B99}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||20×lvl {{ID|Max:200}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10+(lvl/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Max:15)}}
|<=Common[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:+0]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the second of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''Motierre Zombie''' {{ID|00071B9A}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||80||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|Lesser
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the third of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''{{Linkable Entry|Zombie Guardian}}''' {{ID|000C5B3E 000C5B3F 000C5B40}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||18× (lvl-1) {{ID|Min:54}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*8+((lvl-1)/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Min:9)}}
|>=Lesser[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:-1]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|''These three zombies appear in [[Oblivion:Miscarcand (place)|Miscarcand]] with the [[Oblivion:King of Miscarcand|King of Miscarcand]] when you take the Great Welkynd Stone, see the [[Oblivion:Miscarcand (quest)|Miscarcand quest]]''.
|}
{{NewLine}}
{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!colspan=10|{{Linkable Entry|Deranged Zombie}} 
''Found in [[Oblivion:Bleak Flats Cave|Bleak Flats Cave]] during the [[Oblivion:Skingrad Recommendation|Skingrad Recommendation]] quest. Do not carry any diseases.''
|-
!width=20%| FormID
!width=22 | Level
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|rowspan=4|''(Zombies)'' {{ID|00099925}} {{ID|0003F138}} {{ID|0003F136}} {{ID|000474FF}}
|{{ID|(template)}}||rowspan=8|Bonemeal*||80||rowspan=8|30||rowspan=8|100||rowspan=8|{{FC|red|-60}}||rowspan=8|30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|rowspan=4|Lesser
|-
|1-3||80
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|-
|4-5||112
|style = text-align:left|
*12pts melee, unarmed
|-
|6-7||144
|style = text-align:left|
*14pts melee, unarmed
|-
|rowspan=4|''(Headless Zombies)'' {{ID|00047500}} {{ID|00047501}} {{ID|00047502}} {{ID|00047503}}
|8-9||175
|style = text-align:left|
*15pts melee, unarmed
|rowspan=3|Common
|-
|10-11||207
|style = text-align:left|
*17pts melee, unarmed
|-
|12-13||240
|style = text-align:left|
*25pts melee, unarmed
|-
|14+||260
|style = text-align:left|
*27pts melee, unarmed
|Greater
|}

==Gallery==
<gallery>
Image:OB-creature-Headless Zombie.jpg|Headless Zombie
Image:OB-creature-Dread Zombie.jpg|Dread Zombie
</gallery>
[[Category:Oblivion-Creatures-All]] [[Category:Oblivion-Souls-Lesser]]

Oblivion:Zombie

2013-04-13T02:27:15Z

Kimi the Elf: fix link

{{Trail|Creatures|Undead}}
[[File:OB-creature-Zombie.jpg|thumb|right|A Zombie]]
'''Zombies''' are [[OB:Undead|undead]] with mottled, muddy green flesh, various deep and fatal-looking wounds, and they are often missing an arm. Zombies can be deceiving for players having not encountered one before, as they ''can'' run and give chase, and have a distinctive groaning voice when they detect prey.
All zombies drop [[Oblivion:Mort Flesh|Mort Flesh]] (except for [[#Deranged Zombie|Deranged Zombies]], which drop [[Oblivion:Bonemeal|Bonemeal]]). They rely upon unarmed melee attacks, which are made more dangerous by the many [[Oblivion:Disease|diseases]] that zombies can carry. All zombies have the following weaknesses, resistances, and abilities:
* 60% [[Oblivion:Weakness to Fire|weakness to fire]]
* 30% [[Oblivion:Resist Frost|resist frost]]
* 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Poison|resist poison]] (immune to poison)
* 30% [[Oblivion:Resist Magic|resist magic]]
* permanent [[Oblivion:Water Breathing|Water Breathing]] ability
Higher level zombies (Headless Zombies and Dread Zombies) have more health, more powerful attacks, and more dangerous diseases. Also, Dread Zombies are able to regenerate health.
Zombies have a 25% chance of carrying one of the following diseases:
* Ataxia, Brown Rot, Dampworm, Droops, Greenspore, Helljoint, Rockjoint, Rust Chancre, Witbane

Headless zombies have a 33% chance of carrying one of the following diseases:
* Black-Heart Blight, Chanthrax Blight, Chills, Collywobbles, Rattles, Serpiginous Dementia, Swamp Fever, Wither, Yellow Tick

All dread zombies carry the disease Astral Vapors, which is particularly nasty because it causes [[Oblivion:Stunted Magicka|Stunted Magicka]], [[Oblivion:Weakness to Magic|Weakness to Magic]], and [[Oblivion:Damage Magicka|Damage Magicka]]. This effect ignores disease resistance (unless you have the [[Tes4Mod:Unofficial Oblivion Patch|Unofficial Oblivion Patch]] installed). Your magicka will not regenerate until you [[Oblivion:Cure Disease|cure]] yourself.

{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!width=20%| Creature
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Zombie|exname=Standard Zombie}}'''
{{ID|00025E6E 00025E5E 00025E55 00025E4F 000C8BD3}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||80||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|Lesser
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Headless Zombie|exname=Standard Headless Zombie}}''' {{ID|00025E4E 00025E6F 00025E4D 00025E4C 000C8C2C}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||175||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*27pts melee, unarmed
|Common
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Dread Zombie|exname=Standard Dread Zombie}}''' {{ID|0009851B 0009F955 0009F956 0009F957}}
|Minor Loot Mort Flesh||340||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*38pts melee, unarmed
*Regenerate health 5 pts/sec
|Greater

|}

==Unique Zombies==
Unique zombies are zombies that are only found in a specific place at a specific time.
{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!width=20%| Creature
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|rowspan=2|'''{{Linkable Entry|Motierre Zombie}}''' {{ID|00071B98}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||15×lvl {{ID|Max:150}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10+(lvl/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Max:15)}}
|<=Common[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:+0]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the first of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''Motierre Zombie''' {{ID|00071B99}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||20×lvl {{ID|Max:200}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10+(lvl/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Max:15)}}
|<=Common[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:+0]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the second of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''Motierre Zombie''' {{ID|00071B9A}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||80||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|Lesser
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the third of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''{{Linkable Entry|Zombie Guardian}}''' {{ID|000C5B3E 000C5B3F 000C5B40}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||18× (lvl-1) {{ID|Min:54}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*8+((lvl-1)/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Min:9)}}
|>=Lesser[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:-1]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|''These three zombies appear in [[Oblivion:Miscarcand (place)|Miscarcand]] with the [[Oblivion:King of Miscarcand|King of Miscarcand]] when you take the Great Welkynd Stone, see the [[Oblivion:Miscarcand (quest)|Miscarcand quest]]''.
|}
{{NewLine}}
{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!colspan=10|{{Linkable Entry|Deranged Zombie}} 
''Found in [[Oblivion:Bleak Flats Cave|Bleak Flats Cave]] during the [[Oblivion:Skingrad Recommendation|Skingrad Recommendation]] quest. Do not carry any diseases.''
|-
!width=20%| FormID
!width=22 | Level
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|rowspan=4|''(Zombies)'' {{ID|00099925}} {{ID|0003F138}} {{ID|0003F136}} {{ID|000474FF}}
|{{ID|(template)}}||rowspan=8|Bonemeal*||80||rowspan=8|30||rowspan=8|100||rowspan=8|{{FC|red|-60}}||rowspan=8|30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|rowspan=4|Lesser
|-
|1-3||80
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|-
|4-5||112
|style = text-align:left|
*12pts melee, unarmed
|-
|6-7||144
|style = text-align:left|
*14pts melee, unarmed
|-
|rowspan=4|''(Headless Zombies)'' {{ID|00047500}} {{ID|00047501}} {{ID|00047502}} {{ID|00047503}}
|8-9||175
|style = text-align:left|
*15pts melee, unarmed
|rowspan=3|Common
|-
|10-11||207
|style = text-align:left|
*17pts melee, unarmed
|-
|12-13||240
|style = text-align:left|
*25pts melee, unarmed
|-
|14+||260
|style = text-align:left|
*27pts melee, unarmed
|Greater
|}

==Gallery==
<gallery>
Image:OB-creature-Headless Zombie.jpg|Headless Zombie
Image:OB-creature-Dread Zombie.jpg|Dread Zombie
</gallery>
[[Category:Oblivion-Creatures-All]] [[Category:Oblivion-Souls-Lesser]]

Oblivion:Zombie

2013-04-13T02:26:25Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Unique Zombies */ fix link

{{Trail|Creatures|Undead}}
[[File:OB-creature-Zombie.jpg|thumb|right|A Zombie]]
'''Zombies''' are [[OB:Undead|undead]] with mottled, muddy green flesh, various deep and fatal-looking wounds, and they are often missing an arm. Zombies can be deceiving for players having not encountered one before, as they ''can'' run and give chase, and have a distinctive groaning voice when they detect prey.
All zombies drop [[Oblivion:Mort Flesh|Mort Flesh]] (except for [[#Deranged Zombies|Deranged Zombies]], which drop [[Oblivion:Bonemeal|Bonemeal]]). They rely upon unarmed melee attacks, which are made more dangerous by the many [[Oblivion:Disease|diseases]] that zombies can carry. All zombies have the following weaknesses, resistances, and abilities:
* 60% [[Oblivion:Weakness to Fire|weakness to fire]]
* 30% [[Oblivion:Resist Frost|resist frost]]
* 100% [[Oblivion:Resist Poison|resist poison]] (immune to poison)
* 30% [[Oblivion:Resist Magic|resist magic]]
* permanent [[Oblivion:Water Breathing|Water Breathing]] ability
Higher level zombies (Headless Zombies and Dread Zombies) have more health, more powerful attacks, and more dangerous diseases. Also, Dread Zombies are able to regenerate health.
Zombies have a 25% chance of carrying one of the following diseases:
* Ataxia, Brown Rot, Dampworm, Droops, Greenspore, Helljoint, Rockjoint, Rust Chancre, Witbane

Headless zombies have a 33% chance of carrying one of the following diseases:
* Black-Heart Blight, Chanthrax Blight, Chills, Collywobbles, Rattles, Serpiginous Dementia, Swamp Fever, Wither, Yellow Tick

All dread zombies carry the disease Astral Vapors, which is particularly nasty because it causes [[Oblivion:Stunted Magicka|Stunted Magicka]], [[Oblivion:Weakness to Magic|Weakness to Magic]], and [[Oblivion:Damage Magicka|Damage Magicka]]. This effect ignores disease resistance (unless you have the [[Tes4Mod:Unofficial Oblivion Patch|Unofficial Oblivion Patch]] installed). Your magicka will not regenerate until you [[Oblivion:Cure Disease|cure]] yourself.

{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!width=20%| Creature
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Zombie|exname=Standard Zombie}}'''
{{ID|00025E6E 00025E5E 00025E55 00025E4F 000C8BD3}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||80||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|Lesser
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Headless Zombie|exname=Standard Headless Zombie}}''' {{ID|00025E4E 00025E6F 00025E4D 00025E4C 000C8C2C}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||175||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*27pts melee, unarmed
|Common
|-
|'''{{Linkable Entry|Dread Zombie|exname=Standard Dread Zombie}}''' {{ID|0009851B 0009F955 0009F956 0009F957}}
|Minor Loot Mort Flesh||340||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*38pts melee, unarmed
*Regenerate health 5 pts/sec
|Greater

|}

==Unique Zombies==
Unique zombies are zombies that are only found in a specific place at a specific time.
{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!width=20%| Creature
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|rowspan=2|'''{{Linkable Entry|Motierre Zombie}}''' {{ID|00071B98}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||15×lvl {{ID|Max:150}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10+(lvl/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Max:15)}}
|<=Common[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:+0]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the first of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''Motierre Zombie''' {{ID|00071B99}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||20×lvl {{ID|Max:200}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10+(lvl/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Max:15)}}
|<=Common[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:+0]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the second of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''Motierre Zombie''' {{ID|00071B9A}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||80||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|Lesser
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|
''[[Oblivion:Chorrol|Chorrol]] Chapel Undercroft during [[Oblivion:The Assassinated Man|The Assassinated Man]] quest. This is the third of the three zombies you meet.''
|-
|rowspan=2|'''{{Linkable Entry|Zombie Guardian}}''' {{ID|000C5B3E 000C5B3F 000C5B40}}
|Minor Loot (15%) Mort Flesh||18× (lvl-1) {{ID|Min:54}}||30||100||{{FC|red|-60}}||30
|style = text-align:left|
*8+((lvl-1)/2) pts melee, unarmed {{ID|(Min:9)}}
|>=Lesser[[Oblivion:Souls#Soul Strengths|L:-1]]
|-
|colspan=8 style=text-align:left|''These three zombies appear in [[Oblivion:Miscarcand (place)|Miscarcand]] with the [[Oblivion:King of Miscarcand|King of Miscarcand]] when you take the Great Welkynd Stone, see the [[Oblivion:Miscarcand (quest)|Miscarcand quest]]''.
|}
{{NewLine}}
{| class=wikitable style = text-align:center width=100%
|-
!colspan=10|{{Linkable Entry|Deranged Zombie}} 
''Found in [[Oblivion:Bleak Flats Cave|Bleak Flats Cave]] during the [[Oblivion:Skingrad Recommendation|Skingrad Recommendation]] quest. Do not carry any diseases.''
|-
!width=20%| FormID
!width=22 | Level
!width=20%| Carries
!width=22|[[Image:OBHealthIcon_small.png|Health]]
!width=22|[[Image:FrostIcon_small.png|Frost Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:PoisonIcon_small.png|Poison Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:FireIcon_small.png|Fire Resist]]
!width=22|[[Image:MagicIcon_small.png|Magic Resist]]
!width=40%|Attacks
!width=10%| [[Oblivion:Souls|Soul]]
|-
|rowspan=4|''(Zombies)'' {{ID|00099925}} {{ID|0003F138}} {{ID|0003F136}} {{ID|000474FF}}
|{{ID|(template)}}||rowspan=8|Bonemeal*||80||rowspan=8|30||rowspan=8|100||rowspan=8|{{FC|red|-60}}||rowspan=8|30
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|rowspan=4|Lesser
|-
|1-3||80
|style = text-align:left|
*10pts melee, unarmed
|-
|4-5||112
|style = text-align:left|
*12pts melee, unarmed
|-
|6-7||144
|style = text-align:left|
*14pts melee, unarmed
|-
|rowspan=4|''(Headless Zombies)'' {{ID|00047500}} {{ID|00047501}} {{ID|00047502}} {{ID|00047503}}
|8-9||175
|style = text-align:left|
*15pts melee, unarmed
|rowspan=3|Common
|-
|10-11||207
|style = text-align:left|
*17pts melee, unarmed
|-
|12-13||240
|style = text-align:left|
*25pts melee, unarmed
|-
|14+||260
|style = text-align:left|
*27pts melee, unarmed
|Greater
|}

==Gallery==
<gallery>
Image:OB-creature-Headless Zombie.jpg|Headless Zombie
Image:OB-creature-Dread Zombie.jpg|Dread Zombie
</gallery>
[[Category:Oblivion-Creatures-All]] [[Category:Oblivion-Souls-Lesser]]

Skyrim talk:Dragonborn Places

2013-04-13T02:17:55Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Possible Bug */ fix indents

== Tel Mithryn - City or Town? ==
Should Tel Mithryn be classified as a city or a town? Granted it's small (really small), but it's given its own symbol on the map, like Raven Rock and the cities in Skyrim, and not the standard town symbol, like Skaal Village and the towns in Skyrim. [[User:LoveWaffle|LoveWaffle]] ([[User talk:LoveWaffle|talk]]) 04:57, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

: Is it regarded as a city by the game data? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:51, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

::No, unlike Raven Rock it lacks the LocTypeCity keyword. The only other places having the keyword are Markarth, Riften, Solitude, Whiterun and Windhelm. On [[Skyrim:Places]] we called them major cities, but we have other cities there too. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 17:01, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

:::Which would mean its status is similar to Morthal or Winterhold, right? [[User:LoveWaffle|LoveWaffle]] ([[User talk:LoveWaffle|talk]]) 23:28, 23 December 2012 (GMT)
::::I think that classifying it as a Telvanni Tower is fine :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 23:36, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

== Solstheim redirects here. ==

Should there be a page for Solstheim, describing the whole island, similar to how there are hold descriptions in the Skyrim namespace? I'll do a stub if other people are willing to help fill in descriptions. I was looking for a place to put notes about how to travel from Solstheim to Skyrim and back. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 18:11, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

== map ==

i was wondering if anyone is looking for maps for the dragonborn places ?
thanks

[[User:Sir john battleborn|Sir john battleborn]] ([[User talk:Sir john battleborn|talk]]) 19:38, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

== Possible Bug ==
I've found that if I try to fast travel back to Skyrim from Solstheim, the game stops responding and shows only the transition (loading) screen. Anyone else experience this?
[[User:GullyF|GullyF]] ([[User talk:GullyF|talk]]) 01:40, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
:Same here, nearly everytime for me. Restart the game shall fix it. In additon, you may spent some money to take the ship back. It will be more reliabe. I don't know the reason for it, but some people have confirmed that it has nothing to do with your hardware quality. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 02:13, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

::I fast between Skyrim and Solstheim all the time with no problems. Do you have any mods installed? [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 02:17, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim talk:Dragonborn Places

2013-04-13T02:17:32Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Possible Bug */ reply

== Tel Mithryn - City or Town? ==
Should Tel Mithryn be classified as a city or a town? Granted it's small (really small), but it's given its own symbol on the map, like Raven Rock and the cities in Skyrim, and not the standard town symbol, like Skaal Village and the towns in Skyrim. [[User:LoveWaffle|LoveWaffle]] ([[User talk:LoveWaffle|talk]]) 04:57, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

: Is it regarded as a city by the game data? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:51, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

::No, unlike Raven Rock it lacks the LocTypeCity keyword. The only other places having the keyword are Markarth, Riften, Solitude, Whiterun and Windhelm. On [[Skyrim:Places]] we called them major cities, but we have other cities there too. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 17:01, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

:::Which would mean its status is similar to Morthal or Winterhold, right? [[User:LoveWaffle|LoveWaffle]] ([[User talk:LoveWaffle|talk]]) 23:28, 23 December 2012 (GMT)
::::I think that classifying it as a Telvanni Tower is fine :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 23:36, 23 December 2012 (GMT)

== Solstheim redirects here. ==

Should there be a page for Solstheim, describing the whole island, similar to how there are hold descriptions in the Skyrim namespace? I'll do a stub if other people are willing to help fill in descriptions. I was looking for a place to put notes about how to travel from Solstheim to Skyrim and back. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 18:11, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

== map ==

i was wondering if anyone is looking for maps for the dragonborn places ?
thanks

[[User:Sir john battleborn|Sir john battleborn]] ([[User talk:Sir john battleborn|talk]]) 19:38, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

== Possible Bug ==
I've found that if I try to fast travel back to Skyrim from Solstheim, the game stops responding and shows only the transition (loading) screen. Anyone else experience this?
[[User:GullyF|GullyF]] ([[User talk:GullyF|talk]]) 01:40, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
::Same here, nearly everytime for me. Restart the game shall fix it. In additon, you may spent some money to take the ship back. It will be more reliabe. I don't know the reason for it, but some people have confirmed that it has nothing to do with your hardware quality. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 02:13, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

:::I fast between Skyrim and Solstheim all the time with no problems. Do you have any mods installed? [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 02:17, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim talk:Spell Absorption

2013-04-13T01:57:11Z

Kimi the Elf: uns

==Content for New Page Creation==
''I've run across references to this effect several times, and there is no page or redirect for it. When referenced on other pages, other effects receive their own links, but this effect will be clearly lacking a link. Seems it should be a page; especially when considering people may look it up to see if it is a "percent of effect" or a "percent chance" effect. I randomly came across this description on the [[Skyrim:Magic Overview|Magic Overview]] page:''
 Magic Absorption is a rare and more complicated effect, obtainable in only three ways in the game: The Atronach Stone (50%), Atronach perk from Alteration skill tree (30%) and Breton's Dragonskin racial ability (50% for 60 seconds, once/day). All three effects stack with each other.
*Magic Absorption is separate from Magic Resistance. It is calculated before Magic Resistance.
*Magic Absorption is a random chance to completely nullify effects of a spell and, if the spell had a Magicka cost, add the casting cost of a spell to your Magicka. So if you activated the Atronach Stone and an enemy mage hit you with a Firebolt, you have 50% chance to negate all damage from the Firebolt and gain 41 Magicka.
*Magic Absorption works not only with all spells, but also with just about any effect that isn't physical damage. You can absorb effects from weapon enchantments, poisons, diseases and even damage from being on fire.
*There exists a bug with Magic Absorption where you can absorb your own summoning spell. In that case nothing happens - the summoned creature does not appear, but you don't lose any Magicka either (because the Magicka spent is immediately refunded to you). Sneak's Shadow Warrior perk can also be absorbed.
--[[User:Amsuko|Amsuko]] 19:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

:So this is why with high Spell Absorption I can no longer rely on Conjuration? {{uns2|06:52, 8 February 2012|121.212.2.149}}

== equilibrium ==

this spell usually trades life for magicka. with 100% spell absorption, it simply regenerates mana at a rapid rate - the magicka loss is refunded as spent, the health loss is absorbed and refunded as additional magicka. this is a convenient way to bypass the slower magicka regeneration. {{uns|68.124.184.99|January 6, 2012 04:59}}

:has this been patched? I tried it with 100% spell absorption and it didn't work. {{uns2|20:31, 6 July 2012|74.233.23.205}}

== Buff? ==

Are any of the Spell Absorption effects buffed if you use the Necromage, vampire combo? [[Special:Contributions/121.203.57.88|121.203.57.88]] 23:42, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
:Yep, (50% Stone + 30% perk)*1.25=100% - immune to everything except swords and arrows. --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 00:02, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

::related question: since the article says the Alteration perk Atronach is related to the Destruction school, would a Potion of Destruction make the effect stronger? maybe if you drank the potion and then leveled up & selected the perk while the potion is active?[[Special:Contributions/166.248.107.16|166.248.107.16]] 18:27, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

== Absorbs Circle of Protection ==

Glitch? It's a AoE timed spell to fear undead, but if I stand in it with even the 30% from Alteration perk I have basically unlimited magicka while spamming Chain Lightning on a Dragon and healing both it and myself. [[User:Greyslayer|Greyslayer]] 05:52, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

:I've also encountered this glitch on several occasions (playing on PS3). I have no idea what causes it, since it doesn't happen 100% of the time, but after some testing I do know that using some master-level spells can randomly cause this glitch to stop functioning altogether. --[[User:Rhonijin|Rhonijin]] 22:06, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

::It's not really a glitch, and I think you mean Guardian Circle. It is the circle that casts a healing spell on you, and therefore you absorb it. It can lead to OP, because you can continuously cast a healing spell with one hand and a Destruction spell with the other whout magicka loss. {{unsigned|79.162.208.100|15:52, 2 April 2012}}

:::Just like to add that under certain circumstances the spell absorption will no longer work with the circle. This happened to me after I was hit by a dragon's fire breath. For the circle to start being aborsobed again the player needs to be hit by another explosion of sorts. I would suggest angering a storm atronach. A video of this in action can be found here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JQ0DGglu9I {{unsigned|203.122.241.170|14 April 2012}}

::::There is a 85% absorption cap, so you could not become immune to spells in this way. {{uns2|05:28, 22 August 2012|24.179.174.169}}

== Atronach perk ==

I got the atronach perk on my breton but I can't find an entry on "active effects" list. {{uns2|07:46, 14 February 2012|46.246.178.189}}

== Regarding Vampirism/Necromage and Spell Absorption ==

I can personally confirm that the Atronach Stone with the Atronach Perk in Alteration, in conjunction with being a Vampire with the Necromage perk, does ''not'' grant 100% Spell Absorption. Suffice to say that on master difficulty without having fed for some days, an ancient dragon's fire breath can still kill you in short order.

It's my suspicion that this is because Necromage does not effect constant abilities that cannot be properly equipped, such as the Atronach Perk.
This might be because I picked up the Atronach Perk before picking up Necromage, but I play on 360 and can't easily check if getting Necromage first grants 37.5% out of the Atronach Perk as expected.

As such the real value achievable for Spell Absorption through Necromage Vampirism, at least in my case, is 62.5% from the Stone (boosted by Necromage) and 30% from the Perk (unaffected by Necromage) for a total of 92.5%. Still not shabby.

--[[Special:Contributions/209.234.142.248|209.234.142.248]] 16:27, 28 March 2012 (UTC)Anid Maro

:This needs double checking, I picked up Necromage Vampirism then got the Atronach Perk and Stone and so far haven't been hurt by any spells. Even when standing in the a flamethrower trap stream for five minutes. Even then cured myself of Vampirism and retained 100% absorption.
:Tested on PS3 - 08 May 2012 {{uns2|00:20, 10 May 2012|86.158.185.131}}

::Just checking back here, picked up Skyrim again to enjoy the new Dawnguard content. Loaded up the same Vampire character, and he is as before. Most of the time spells are absorbed, but ''sometimes'' they get through. Again, I suspect this may be because I obtained the Atronach Perk before obtaining Necromage thus preventing me from getting the full 100% (as the Atronach perk was "equipped" prior to getting Necromage, and thus does not get the bonus).
::As 86.etc said, this requires further confirmation. However given the nature of the Alchemy restoration loop and how permanent bonuses will retain temporary bonuses, I think that temporary bonuses will not retroactively affect relevant existing bonuses (so long as they are not refreshed) and explains my case with Vampirism/Necromage.
::--[[Special:Contributions/209.234.142.248|209.234.142.248]] 05:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)Anid Maro

:::confirmed that necro/vamp needs to be gained before the atronach perk and stone for 100% absorption. {{uns2|20:35, 6 July 2012|74.233.23.205}}

::::I'm kinda wondering, isn't the absorbtion with Necromage + Atronach perk and stone just 99% instead of 100? I mean, 50 * 25% are 12.5, which is rounded down(like Skyrim always does ._.) 12, and 30*25% is 7.5, which is rounded down 7. 37%+62% = 99%, which would mean that the effect has a chance of 1% to fail. That might be minor, but it could bite you in the ass quickly if a Fire Ball bypasses the absorbtion because of this 1% chance. -Two-Eyed Jack --[[Special:Contributions/178.1.112.87|178.1.112.87]] 18:30, 7 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}My necromage is still hurt by fire despite getting necro/vamp before the atronach perk. He has not hurt by any other types of magic besides fire. Needs more reviewing. Tested on Ps3. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.93.253|anonymous]], 02:28 16 July 2012 (UTC)

^you also need the atronach stone.

Hello! Isnt that because you took necromage after the either atronacy or the atronach stone? Necromage doesnt work on Permanent Effeccts took before it... it only boosts effects (including perks) took after it. You should "re equip" the atronach stone again.

:Can anyone verify the rather substantial claim added to the notes by an anonymous contributor this past January that the Necromage effect only works on the Atronach perk and it stacks the 25% magnitude effect and 50% duration effect, nothwithstanding that it doesn't stack the duration effect onto any other effect that it's applied to?--[[User:DagmarH|DagmarH]] ([[User talk:DagmarH|talk]]) 01:27, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

== List of spells that are messed up by Spell Absorbtion perks/stones/enchantments? ==

Anyone know of a list of spells that are affected (messed up) by Spell Absorbtion?
There are plenty of 'on self' spells that I can think of - Destruction Cloak Spells/Healing/Summon Creature/Summon Bound Weapon/Muffle/Mage Armour etc - Which are affected? - HK{{unsigned|87.86.169.66|13:16, 18 April 2012}}
:I use this stone all the time and I have never experienced any problems with other spells. Are you affected by some kind of glitch? [[User:RIM|RIM]] 13:32, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
::The only spells I ever had an issue with were the summon creature spells. There might be other spells similarly affected, though. [[User:Wolok gro-Barok|Wolok gro-Barok]] 16:35, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
:::Summon creature spells target the player, allowing spell absorption effects to interfere. No other spells target the player, so no other spells are affected by this bug. {{uns2|05:23, 22 August 2012|24.179.174.169}}

== Summon vs Reanimate ==

One thing that isn't made clear by this article, at least not to me, is if the conjuration glitch only effects spells with the Summon Creature effect or all Conjure Ally or Weapon spells. From the context of this article and other pages on the wiki, it would seen the only spells rendered ineffectual by a high or maximized Spell Absorbation would be the ones that summon Daedra, Atronachs, and Familiars, allowing a high level mage to have a 100%+ Spell Absorbation and still be able to raise powerful undead allies. I haven't had a chance to test this myself yet, but if this is the case, or even if it isn't, should the article not be updated to clearify this distinction?
-- Cait Feirr {{uns2|04:30, 20 June 2012|99.127.200.216}}

:I have tested it, and Spell Absorbtion does not interfere with Necromancy. Camron J. H, [[Special:Contributions/68.229.253.168|68.229.253.168]] 21:40, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

== Summoning ==

So does 100% spell absorption prevent ALL summoning spells. Because that would mean I'd have to avoid it completely. Anyone know? {{uns2|07:29, 7 August 2012|81.151.88.171}}

== Testing done with version 1.7.7.0.6 shows a 85% cap for spell absorption ==

Since I observed the Drain Vitality shout from dragons was never absorbed by my 100% spell absorption I decided to do some testing. My first test was to check if other resists were affecting Drain Vitality and the answer is NO. The only thing affecting it are the wards (they block it). At the same time I observed some regular spells were bypassing my spell absorption as well from time to time. I started Meridia's quest which provides a source of continuous damage every second (the beams of light). While standing in a beam you can count the number of times you take damage over a period of time - in my case it was 44 times over 300s - which indicates 85.3% spells absorbed. --[[Special:Contributions/213.49.225.235|213.49.225.235]] 13:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
:I think you may have messed up on your spell absorption. On patch 1.7.10.0.6 on the Xbox 360 I'm still getting 100% spell absorption. Drain Vitality has always bypassed spell absorption for me. You should try regaining the Atronach Stone's blessing while you are a vampire, since that percentage is close to 86%, which is what you can get with necromage only affecting the Atronach perk. [[User:LoftedAphid86|LoftedAphid86]] ([[User talk:LoftedAphid86|talk]]) 10:35, 15 September 2012 (GMT)

::Explain why my health didn't drop a single point on Master difficulty with 100% Spell Absorbtion (from the Stone, Atronach Perk and Nercromage) when I stood in front of a Legendary Dragon's breath attack. (Latest patch installed)--[[Special:Contributions/89.168.120.212|89.168.120.212]] 13:45, 15 September 2012 (GMT)

:This is an unreliable testing methodology to conclude that there is an 85% cap on damage with a 100% effect. If you're taking any damage from a constant damage effect it's likely that your Spell Absorption is less than 100% and is occasionally failing. A more reliable way of testing would be to subject yourself to multiple burst attacks to witness if you suffered 15% damage from each attack. Consequently your conclusion that there is an 85% cap on the damage absorbed is incorrect. The mechanics remain the same as they have always been as of 1.7.7.06. I just ran multiple tests using my Breton with the Atronach Stone as the effective Standing Stone and using the Breton racial power Dragonskin against 10 Pyromancers and took zero damage for the duration of the Dragonskin effect after running the test 10 times. I've posted a video of one of the tests [http://youtu.be/1I_sg02PqVQ here]. You can see the version is 1.7.7.0.6, the basis for my 100% Spell Absorption and that I didn't take a single point of damage while it was effective (while dying rather quickly once the Dragonskin effect expired). If your conclusion were correct you would see multiple small decreases to my health bar for the duration of the test with each hit from a Pyromancer, but you don't. What's the basis of your 100% Spell Absorption? If you take the Atronach perk before taking the Necromage perk and before becoming a Vampire you can't achieve 100% Spell Absorption because the Necromage perk wont affect your Atronach perk percentage value. --[[User:DagmarH|DagmarH]] ([[User talk:DagmarH|talk]]) 05:13, 25 September 2012 (GMT)

== Dragonborn DLC 100% spell absorption ==

If you have the DLC and beat the main story; Atronach Stone + 3/3 Spell Absorption Perk + Miraak's Armor (minus hood) will give you 100% Spell Absorption without having to be a Vampire.{{unsigned|66.87.2.30|00:45, 14 December 2012}}
:There is no 3/3 Spell Absorption Perk. The only perk that gives Spell Absorption is the Alteration perk Atronach, which normally grants 30% spell absorption. The 3/3 perk grants magic resistance, a separate number. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 16:16, 4 February 2013 (GMT)
::Also, you don't need both gloves and boots to get the 100% spell absorbtion. As far as I know, the boots, although displayed as Light Armor, do not disable the Mage Armor effect. The Robes/Boots combination might be useful for characters that rely on Mage Armor for protection. -Two-Eyed Jack --[[Special:Contributions/88.78.56.66|88.78.56.66]] 18:00, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

== Spell absorption on Followers/Summons==

While creating a mod I used the Spell absorption effect from the atronach stone on a summonable creature. I tried it out with my mage character who used cloak spells frequently, and the summoned creature sometimes died even without an enemy near damaging it. So it seems that damage effects, if not absorbed, damage even friendly characters. (Anyone with partial spell absorption ever stepped in a followers cloak spell?) [[User:SarthesArai|SarthesArai]] ([[User talk:SarthesArai|talk]]) 20:45, 30 December 2012 (GMT)

== Durnehviir ==

Between the Atronach Stone and the Atronach perk, my current PC has 80% Spell Absorption. As expected, I've had some difficulty with conjuring familiars and such, but it's not something I do regularly. I recently replayed Dawnguard with this character and found that Arvak is not affected; he always appears every time I cast the spell. Durnehviir, however, is another matter. He isn't appearing at all, even when I'm sure that I have a large, open piece of land for him to appear. Any ideas? Or do I need to spend a dragon soul clearing my Alteration perks just to learn Soul Tear? [[User:SonGoharotto|SonGoharotto]] ([[User talk:SonGoharotto|talk]]) 03:16, 3 January 2013 (GMT)

:May have spoken too soon. Durnehviir is definitely affected by Spell Absorption, but summoning him is still doable. Temporarily swapping out the Atronach Stone for another another helps. [[User:SonGoharotto|SonGoharotto]] ([[User talk:SonGoharotto|talk]]) 21:14, 3 January 2013 (GMT)

::For a better ease of use it should be easier to use the Aetherium Crown to switch the Atronach Stone On and Off. {{uns2|15:35, 26 March 2013‎ (GMT)|151.24.22.102}}

== Alteration Conjuration Glitch ==
i have ps3 320gb skyrim 1.7 playing as a dunmer with alteration atronach perk & nectomage perk & atronach stone i have no problems with bound weapons nor reanimate spells however if i use conjure flame,frost,storm,familiar or dremora lord i get sound but nothing happens if i change stone even with perks i've had said it works is anyone still having problem with alteration conjuration glitch its been said that one of the updates fixed this?--[[Special:Contributions/99.195.224.39|99.195.224.39]] 14:42, 24 January 2013 (GMT)

== 100% Spell Absorbtion ==

I didn't see it mentioned above, so here goes: Fortify Restoration Potions boost the effects of the Atronach Stone; an Elixir of the Healer (50%) takes the stone's absorbtion to 75%, which combined with the Atronach Perk totals 105%. No Vampirism and no DLS's required. Tested and working. {{uns2|11:31, 17 March 2013 (GMT)|212.117.45.216}}

UESPWiki:Community Portal

2013-04-13T01:33:11Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Dialogue, Dialogues or Conversations */ reply

{{protection|move=full}}{{UESPWiki Trail}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Message Boards|{{PAGENAME}}]]{{Archive Table|class=collapsible collapsed
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 1|Archive 1|Feb 2005 – June 2006
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 2|Archive 2|June 2006 – July 2006
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 3|Archive 3|Aug 2006 – Sep 2006
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 4|Archive 4|Sep 2006 – Oct 2006
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 5|Archive 5|Nov 2006 – Dec 2006
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 6|Archive 6|Jan 2007 – Feb 2007
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 7|Archive 7|Feb 2007 – Mar 2007
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 8|Archive 8|Apr 2007 – Sep 2007
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 9|Archive 9|Oct 2007 – Nov 2007
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 10|Archive 10|Dec 2007 – Jan 2008
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 11|Archive 11|Nov 2007 – Jan 2008
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 12|Archive 12|Jan 2008 – Feb 2008
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 13|Archive 13|Mar 2008 – Apr 2008
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 14|Archive 14|Apr 2008 – June 2008
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 15|Archive 15|June 2008 – Mar 2009
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 16|Archive 16|Apr 2009 – Aug 2009
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 17|Archive 17|July 2009 – Dec 2009
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 18|Archive 18|Dec 2009 – Jan 2010
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 19|Archive 19|Jan 2010 – July 2010
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 20|Archive 20|June 2010 – August 2010
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 21|Archive 21|September 2010 – October 2010
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 22|Archive 22|November 2010 – December 2010
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 23|Archive 23|January 2011 – March 2011
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 24|Archive 24|April 2011 – May 2011
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 25|Archive 25|June 2011 – August 2011
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 26|Archive 26|August 2011 – November 2011
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 27|Archive 27|November 2011 – December 2011
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 28|Archive 28|January 2012
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 29|Archive 29|February 2012
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 30|Archive 30|March 2012 – April 2012
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 31|Archive 31|April 2012 – July 2012
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 32|Archive 32|May 2012 – August 2012
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 33|Archive 33|August 2012 – November 2012
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 34|Archive 34|December 2012 – January 2013
|Project:Community Portal/Archive 35|Archive 35|January 2013 - March 2013
}}{{TOCright|limit=3}}
This is the '''main discussion forum''' used for community-wide discussions about UESP's operations, policies, design, and improvement.

All members of the community are welcome to contribute to this page. Please sign and date your post by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar. If you would like to start a new inquiry, please place it at the bottom of the page with a two-tier (==) heading.

'''Before starting a discussion here,''' please review the list of other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.
<table style="background-color:#FCF3E0; border:1px solid #E3C499; padding:0.5em; margin:0 1em 1em 0"><tr><td>
Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:
{{Bullet Link|[[:Category:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]|A category listing of policies and guidelines, which each have individual pages; their talk pages are the best place to discuss these policies (see [[#Active Discussions|Active Discussions]] for links to active policy discussions).}}
{{Bullet Link|Administrator Noticeboard|If you have a request that requires an [[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrator]], you may want to post your comments there.}}
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In addition, past discussions from the Community Portal can be found at:
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Community Portal/Archives|CP Archives]]|Lists all of the past discussions from the Community Portal page, including major discussions and chronlogical archives.}}
</td></tr></table>

====Active Discussions====

Many discussions of community-wide interest are held on pages other than the community portal. Discussions about specific policies belong on the policy talk pages, for example. The following table lists other discussions that are currently in progress on other talk pages. If you start a discussion on another talk page, please add it to this list. If a discussion listed here has been inactive (i.e., no comments of any type in at least a week), please remove it from the list.

{| class="wikitable"
! Location !! Date started !! Topic !! Listed here by
|-
|[[UESPWiki_talk:Survey_Results#Embedded_Media|Embedded Media]]
|22:51, 2 January 2013 (GMT)
|Featuring videos on the wiki
|[[User:Lukish|Lukish]]
|}

== 2nd Person or 3rd Person ==

In the style guide we have a [[UESPWiki:Style_Guide#No_First_Person|section]] that specifically discourages 1st person, but we leave it up to the writer to decide between 2nd and 3rd person. I feel like we should be more consistent with this. My preference would be to use 2nd person most of the time, at least on quest and place walkthroughs. Otherwise we're repeatedly referring to the player as "the player", and then getting into the awkward condition of choosing a gender-specific pronoun, or having to write "he or she" (or other incorrect or awkward formations such as "he/she", "one", "they", etc.) all the time. Keeping everything with simply "you" removes any such issues, and makes the article much more friendly and readable. Using 3rd person to refer to the reader just comes off as overly formal and stilted, in addition to the issues of uncertain gender. This wouldn't apply to Lore pages. And of course when we're referring to people other than the player, such as on NPC pages, 3rd person is entirely appropriate. I'm also not proposing a site-wide sweep to make all pages conform to this form, but if you're editing a page written in 3rd person for some other reason, feel free to change it to 2nd at the same time. And we'd add a section to the Style Guide supporting this. Any suggestions/objections? [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 15:03, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

:Pretty much the only articles that should be in third person are NPC pages and lore. While I prefer third person when writing, second person is just better for most content. Third person really only works when we aren't trying to be a game guide and when we need to be more encyclopedic or biographical. In fact, we should change the style guide to reflect this. Third person is appropriate in Lore (always) and is alright on NPC articles, but shouldn't be used for basically anything else. On that note, are there any place or quest articles that are currently written in third person? --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 15:33, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

::Plenty. You see a lot of:
:::''"If the player looks to the left upon entering the room, they will see a pull chain in front of them that will open the gate so they can proceed into the next area"''
::Sometimes it's even worse:
:::''"If the player looks to the left upon entering the room, the player will see a pull chain in front of the player that will open the gate so the player can proceed into the next area"''
::Or:
:::''"If the player looks to the left upon entering the room, he or she will see a pull chain in front of him or her that will open the gate so he or she can proceed into the next area"''
::None of which is as clean and concise as simply:
:::''"If you look to the left upon entering the room, you'll see a pull chain in front of you that will open the gate so you can proceed into the next area"''
::I exaggerate of course, but you see formations like this all the time. I want to fix them, but currently there's nothing in the Style Guide stating that this is wrong. I'd like to add a line saying that: ''"The player should always be referred to in the 2nd person (e.g. "you") in gameplay articles. 3rd person should only be used when talking about people other than the player."'' I would make an exception in places like spell pages. We use "the caster" frequently in such situations, mainly to reflect the fact that other people besides the player can cast spells. Not sure how to work that into official policy, but it seems logical. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:42, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

:::I'd like something like ''"In walkthroughs the player should always be referred to in the 2nd person (e.g. "you")"''', leaving it open in other cases (so we don't need to define exceptions like spell pages). Adding something like this to the guideline will be helpful, since other wikis usually have a third-person only style guideline. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 16:56, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

::::Thanks for the examples. I completely agree that it looks atrocious. Alf's change seems like the best choice, so I'd throw my support for that alteration. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 17:09, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

:::::There are places other than walkthroughs where 2nd person is appropriate though, e.g. [[Skyrim:Traps|Traps]], [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|Lycanthropy]], etc. Any game-play related articles like that would fall in this category. Also, on NPC pages, when describing interactions between the NPC and the player, 2nd person can be used. How about ''"References to the player should always be in the 2nd person (e.g. "you"), except when such references could refer to other people in addition to the player."'' This covers all cases I can think of. [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 17:28, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

::::::Yes, there are other places. But I think we should not overcomplicate the style guide and just leave those cases open. There are several cases where not using 2nd person is fine too.
::::::*[[Skyrim:Dawnguard]] ''The player can choose to aid...''.
::::::*[[Skyrim:Health]] ''[NPC health]...calculated differently than the player's health''
::::::*[[Skyrim:Classes]] ''In Skyrim, a class cannot be chosen by the Player Character...''
::::::Requiring all those cases to use 2nd person would not be good in my opinion. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 17:57, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}I'm for some flexibility. If it comes to specifying guidelines, a flexibility's constraints can be defined as carefully as possible--I'm sure not perfectly--and added as such). However, I think the second person is always (?) better when it is a reasonable choice between second and third. "You" simply involves the reader more closely in text than does "the player" (in other contexts "the person" or "one"). I'd say it should be considered correct in quest walkthroughs. I don't think there are any walkthroughs that use only the third person presently. If we did, I suspect that most people who read it would experience what I'm calling "closeness" here (you couldn't blame it on the frequency of a pronoun's or noun's use: otherwise the same problem would pertain to "you" in many or most articles). It's distancing, ignoring the nature of the relationship (we want and usually have) between writers and readers.

For NPC pages, I can see a pull toward third-person as it often feels more "encyclopedia" and formal in tone. But I think we should depart from, say Wikipedia, on this, because we pretty much consider our audience to be players of the game, who use the wiki to enhance doing so. We don't want to see, on Wikipedia, "If you had been a member of Lincoln's cabinet, you would have engaged in many a heated debate." Of course! But if it was "the family and close friends of Barack Obama wiki", and I was his triracial step-brother, I'd rather read, under say, "Charisma", "If you accidentally run into the president in the middle of an important meeting, he is just as likely to interrupt the entire proceeding and say 'hello', as he would be to remain focused on the meeting and seek you out later."

On this wiki, if we agree that we are essentially talking to the player/user, then I think we have a familiarity, an intimacy even, a commonality, with our audience, and it feels more that way when we use "you." I'd be sort of for the logical quotations guideline: Once there's an edit from third-person to second-person, it should not be reverted (except when and where pretty much everyone would agree that the third-person makes more sense), at least not without a discussion. So no "If the steward appoints the player thane" -> "...appoints you thane." -> "...appoints the player thane." on an NPC or gameplay topic page such as a skill page. I suppose if there were some consensus coagulating around something like this, I'd be happy to try to work on some precise and concise language for consideration.

The "we don't need this made policy" idea is ok with me too, in this area, since it's clear what the most general feeling is from the above, because disagreements or potential edit wars can be handled as any other; but I'm generally pro-policization for the help it can give editors without needing to post questions, etc.

And, yes, fellow English-lovers, (not English lovers) "policization" may very well not be "a word", but I use it because I think it's good communication. ;p --[[User:JR|JR]] ([[User talk:JR|talk]]) 12:49, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

== Color-coded Map Icons ==

So, I was experimenting a bit, and I wanted to see how this would go over. I created a set of color-coded map icons by Hold. (Using the color of that Hold's guard uniforms.) I've only done one set so far, because I wanted to see what people thought:
{|
|
{| {{AL|C}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Haafingar.png]] Haafingar
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-The Pale.png]] The Pale
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Winterhold.png]] Winterhold
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Solstheim.png]] Solstheim
|-
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Hjaalmarch.png]] Hjaalmarch
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Whiterun.png]] Whiterun
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Eastmarch.png|SR-mapicon-Cave-Eastmarch.png]] Eastmarch
|-
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-The Reach.png]] The Reach
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Falkreath.png]] Falkreath
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-The Rift.png]] The Rift
|}
|
{| {{AL|C}}
|- {{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Haafingar.png]] Haafingar
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-The Pale.png]] The Pale
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Winterhold.png]] Winterhold
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Solstheim.png]] Solstheim
|- {{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Hjaalmarch.png]] Hjaalmarch
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Whiterun.png]] Whiterun
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Eastmarch.png|SR-mapicon-Cave-Eastmarch.png]] Eastmarch
|- {{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-The Reach.png]] The Reach
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-Falkreath.png]] Falkreath
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Cave-The Rift.png]] The Rift
|}
|}
These would be most useful on the interactive Skyrim map, so you can see where the borders of the Holds are. But it could also be useful on the place pages. The template could even be set up to choose the correct colored version automatically, by adding the name of the Hold to the end of the file name (once all the files exist of course), so there'd be very little work changing them over. Any thoughts? I'm open to suggestions on changing the colors maybe. Winterhold and Hjaalmarch are kind of similar, though fortunately they don't share a border, so at least on the big map they wouldn't be confused. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 14:32, 5 March 2013 (GMT)
:They're kinda neato, aren't they? My first reaction was "why?", but when I visualize all of the map icons being color-coded, I think it would add some zazz (not sure if that's a word) to the map. Thumbs up from me. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 15:04, 5 March 2013 (GMT)
::Just added Solstheim - interestingly, the Cave icon is one of only 3 (along with Fort and Nordic Ruin) that would be needed in all colors. All told, we'd need 205 icons to cover everything. I just went and checked for which icons are used in which Holds, so I can avoid wasting time creating icons that won't be used. Now, technical questions: To use these on the interactive map, I think they need to be uploaded manually by someone with serve access - don't think it can use images stored in the wiki. Also, for some of the Holds, there are disambig issues. From a templating perspecting, for Whiterun and Falkreath, would it be easier to have them named "Whiterun Hold" and "Falkreath Hold"? And for Winterhold, would "Winterhold (region)" be better? Or is this not required? For the Solstheim-colored variants, is it okay to keep the "SR-" prefix, rather than "DB-", as we have for the other Solstheim-only icons? — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 17:24, 5 March 2013 (GMT)
:::Very nice, it will change from the bland all-white map markers. I suppose the colors are based on guards uniforms/town banners? Some of them aren't spot-on, but I'm being picky. Also, I wonder why you choose this color for Solstheim; I know no one truely rules on the island, so you can't just make them Redoran-colored, but is there a reason? {{uns2|19:19, 5 March 2013‎| Elakyn}}

:::: They would be nice for the interactive map, but I wouldn't like using unofficial icons on articles. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 19:56, 5 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::Solstheim was a tricky call, but we used a color similar to this when including Bloodmoon content on Morrowind pages. See [[Morrowind:Spell Effects]] for example. Since we're in Solstheim again, it made sense to keep consistency on the site. I suppose I could try and get a sample of Bonemold armor, but it would look a lot like Whiterun yellow. Similarly, Redoran red would be very similar to Haafingar/Imperial red. (Also, I think Neloth would disapprove, as would the Skaal.)
:::::The rest of them are sampled from the actual uniform graphics. There is of course a range on each uniform, as they use light and dark shading to simulate folds in the cloth. I tried to get a representative average, and in some cases I cranked up the saturation a little bit, because a lot of them just looked grey and indistinguishable, but the hue is straight out of the game.
:::::As for the use of unofficial icons on article pages, we're already doing that in several places. The icons for "trainer" are similarly just tinted versions of an official icon. In fact, most of the service icons are being used in ways other than they were designed for. Heck, we're still using Oblivion icons on the creature pages. (The heart for health columns, etc.)
:::::Incidentally, I wonder how exactly we're determining where the borders are? Some locations are obviously in one hold or another, but the borders don't seem to be clearly marked in the game. The only way you can usually tell is if you get caught committing a crime in a given location, and when you're out in the wild where everything is hostile to you, nothing you do is a crime. Unless you Calm somebody first, I guess. Did somebody go around Calming bandits and forsworn and then attacking them to see which hold gave them a bounty? Or is this info easily available in the CK somewhere? — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 22:21, 5 March 2013 (GMT)
::::::CSList is where I get which hold a particular location is in. The only place that this may not work would be Unmarked Locations, but they, by definition, wouldn't need a marker, unless someone decided to start marking them, then they would no longer be unmarked...I better stop before I pass out. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 00:28, 6 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::::I was thinking we might use the Door icon: [[File:SR-mapicon-Door.png|10px]] for locations without a map marker but which do have an interior cell. We can't just put it on all such pages, however, because the template automatically includes it in a category of discoverable locations if you add an icon. But there's probably a way around that which we can look into later. For other unmarked locations, I think we need to come up with another icon altogether. Currently we're using [[File:SR-mapicon-Landmark.png|10px]] for those, but I think that's wrong, because there are legitimate locations which use the Landmark icon which do appear on the map, and it might be confusing to use the same icon for unmarked locations. I think something simple would be better, like just a little circle, maybe, similar to the Pog icons we use on some overlays. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 01:15, 6 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}} Echoing a point made above, I can see this being useful on the Map itself, but I would be opposed to it being used on the pages. We HAVE icons to use for these pages already, whereas for health, magicka, stamina, there aren't really icons to use from the game, so we continue to use the old ones. I think that it would be inappropriate for us to use them on the main articles, and I'm not so sure it would even be aesthetically pleasing either. All in all, I am for using the icons on our map, but strongly against using them on the main pages. I think there needs to be many, many more opinions before we decide anything this major though. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:53, 6 March 2013 (GMT)

:Well, the icons [[User:TheRealLurlock/Sandbox XVII|exist]]. Implementing them on the place pages would actually be as simple as one template change, which could be easily reverted. It would ''not'', if I've done this correctly, require individual changes on every single page. (Only exception might be the Hold capitals might have to be done by hand.) By contrast, implementing them on the interactive map might actually require a bit of work, though I'd like to see that happen. (Somebody else will have to copy the files to the right part of the server to do that, however.) Anyhow, it's there if we want to use it. If not, I won't be ''too'' offended... *sniffles* — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:52, 7 March 2013 (GMT)
::It isn't really a question of ease of use. All you need to do is a template change, yes, but that template is used on thousands of pages, because updating place summary also updates it on every single page its on, including oblivion and morrowind namespaces, regardless of something having actually changed. Before ANYTHING happens, there needs to be a real consensus, we should wait at least until the most active of editors have had a chance to see this, and comment on it. It is much more than a "simple change" in terms of the number of pages the template is on. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 02:59, 7 March 2013 (GMT)

:::I think colored icons are a good idea. Realize that we've had to custom-make about half of the Skyrim icons, including all of the Skill-related ones and quite a few others. This wouldn't be the first time we've recolored existing icons for flavor either; look at {{tl|Spells Sold}}. I like the icons, because they add a bit more color to the otherwise-monotone pages. I highly doubt any viewers will be confused by these changes, because every map icon in Skyrim is white, and they will catch on that they are just what we use. As for comments that we need new Health/Magicka/Stamina icons, if you have an idea, go for it! We haven't used any new icons because no one has made any. My only concern is if Daveh does indeed implement the changes below and color the map, the colored icons may not look so good, unless we make a set of brighter icons. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 03:31, 7 March 2013 (GMT)

::::It's true that all the earth-toned icons might blend in a colored map, and I doubt making them brighter will change that unless you make them like fluorescent-bright. As for the health, magicka and stamina icons, I checked numerous game sites and it's particulary uninspiring; health is almost universally represented as a heart (or a cross for modern/futurist universes) and magicka is either a flame or just about anything that looks sort of esoteric. As for stamina, flexed biceps and silhouettes running seem to make up the majority, with the occasional heart and/or set of lungs.
::::There's also the question of whether we should color-code those too -red, blue and green- or not. The ghost weapons found in Labyrinthian gave me an idea, but I'm not sure at all; it would be Blood for health, Soul for magicka and Heart for stamina, but obviously some people are gonna be confused. Also, how do you represent a soul? Some kind of wispy bluish flame?
::::Anyway, I think the main thing here is making a stamina icon. It looks odd to have a heart, a magical shield and then "Sta", like a kid who didn't get his dessert. [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 06:51, 7 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::There's another possibility here which is to keep the icons white, but give them a colored border instead of black. I thought about doing that initially, but I was concerned you wouldn't be able to tell the difference as easily. I'm open to suggestions on better color choices. I was trying as best as I could to represent the colors used in-game for guard uniforms, but they are admittedly kind of drab and might not stand out very well. I do agree that we need a Stamina icon, but that's a separate issue. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:55, 7 March 2013 (GMT)
::::::What about the opposite? White border with colored insides. That way you can easily see it against the background, but it is still full the correct color. Would that work? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:27, 7 March 2013 (GMT)
:::::::Certainly doable, actually easier than making colored borders. (I can automate the process to turn borders white. Making borders color-coded is more labor-intensive.) Though it might look like they're now ''undiscovered'' locations, since that's what dark-on-light signifies in the game, but that's not too serious... — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 13:40, 8 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}}Here's a really quick redo of the Nordic Ruin set with white borders. <s>I'm not 100% satisfied with how the edges came out, I'm going to see if I can improve on that.</s> — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 14:47, 8 March 2013 (GMT)
{|
|
{| {{AL|C}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Haafingar.png]] Haafingar
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-The Pale.png]] The Pale
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Winterhold.png]] Winterhold
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Solstheim.png]] Solstheim
|-
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Hjaalmarch.png]] Hjaalmarch
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Whiterun.png]] Whiterun
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Eastmarch.png]] Eastmarch
|-
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-The Reach.png]] The Reach
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Falkreath.png]] Falkreath
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-The Rift.png]] The Rift
|}
|
{| {{AL|C}}
|-{{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Haafingar.png]] Haafingar
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-The Pale.png]] The Pale
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Winterhold.png]] Winterhold
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Solstheim.png]] Solstheim
|-{{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Hjaalmarch.png]] Hjaalmarch
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Whiterun.png]] Whiterun
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Eastmarch.png]] Eastmarch
|-{{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-The Reach.png]] The Reach
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-Falkreath.png]] Falkreath
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Nordic Ruin-The Rift.png]] The Rift
|}
|}
:The concept of using hold guard colors is sound. My only concern is for readability - the colors for Hjaalmarch, Reach and Winterhold are varying shades of green that might seem too similar when looked at on the actual map. It's not too bad, as Winterhold is far from Hjaalmarch and the Reach, so it wont be as noticeable. Side by side they are pretty distinct, but map testing might be useful.
:Also you could maybe take into consideration color blindness, are these all might appear grey to some folk.--[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 17:24, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

::{{ec}}Huh. It's probably just my astigmatism, but I'm having trouble distinguishing the icons with white borders. Now I almost know the map by memory so it's not a problem to me but it might be to others. As for colorblind people, well, I admit that it's a problem but we can't do much about it; they're gonna see the map off-colored, but so is everything for them. I guess we could keep the black & white map and create a colored one separately for people who suffer such defects? [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 18:47, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

:::I do think the colors are more easily distinguishable with the black border than with the white, but maybe that's because they're on a light background. I just put another set up against a middle-grey background, which is more like what you'll see on the map. I did the same for the black-bordered Cave icons back at the top of this discussion. That should give people a better idea of how these will look on the actual map. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 18:52, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

:::While I'm at it, here's another set, with the colors made a bit bolder. It sacrifices a little bit of faith to the original colors in favor of making them more easily distinguishable. I tried not to go super-flourescent on them, just crank the saturation up enough to where there'd be no confusion between any two colors. (Oh, and as for color-blind people - What can you do, really? We can't accommodate every possible handicap. There may be somebody reading this site on a text-only browser with an old amber-screen monitor. Maybe some people are completely blind (probably not playing video games much I'd imagine). Sorry, we simply can't take everything like that into account.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:12, 8 March 2013 (GMT)
{|
|
{| {{AL|C}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Haafingar.png]] Haafingar
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-The Pale.png]] The Pale
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Winterhold.png]] Winterhold
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Solstheim.png]] Solstheim
|-
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Hjaalmarch.png]] Hjaalmarch
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Whiterun.png]] Whiterun
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Eastmarch.png]] Eastmarch
|-
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-The Reach.png]] The Reach
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Falkreath.png]] Falkreath
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-The Rift.png]] The Rift
|}
|
{| {{AL|C}}
|-{{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Haafingar.png]] Haafingar
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-The Pale.png]] The Pale
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Winterhold.png]] Winterhold
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Solstheim.png]] Solstheim
|-{{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Hjaalmarch.png]] Hjaalmarch
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Whiterun.png]] Whiterun
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Eastmarch.png]] Eastmarch
|-{{BG|#777}}
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-The Reach.png]] The Reach
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-Falkreath.png]] Falkreath
|[[File:SR-mapicon-Fort-The Rift.png]] The Rift
|}
|}
{{od}}Can I get some feedback on the new bolder icon colors? I want to know if I should go ahead and do the rest of them this way. Or maybe try the bolder colors with the original black border or what. If nobody says anything within a day, I'm going to just do the rest like the Fort images above. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 13:05, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

:They're much easier to distinguish, that's for sure. However I did a quick try and if we put the icons on the map as it is now (that is, grey) even with white borders and the name right next to it the Falkreath icons are gonna be hard to spot. Or maybe it's just my eyes again, I don't know, someone with good eyes shoud try. [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 13:19, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

::How about now? I made it a little brighter. Can't go too pale or it looks just like ''The'' Pale. Cranking saturation doesn't really work either because it's ''supposed'' to be grey. (Actually, it turns out that in hue it's most similar to Whiterun. Crank the saturation way up and you get a yellowish color.) Of course, it may all be moot if Daveh's talk of getting colored maps (below) work out. (Not sure where you'd get the graphics for that, but I assume he has something planned). It also might be a feature you can choose, like Maps vs. Satellite view in Google maps. But I don't think there's much more I can do for Falkreath while still remaining at least slightly faithful to the original colors. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 13:50, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

:::I strongly prefer the brighter colors. With how small the icons will be, we need the contrast. They're good, in my opinion. Either white or black borders would work.

:::As for putting icons on pages, I don't mind either way, but on the capital city pages, the colored icons would clash. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 16:12, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

::::If the map stays grey, the white border are preferable, if only for Falkreath - with black borders they're damn near invisible given how small the map icons are. As for the site, I'm not sure. The region is already mentioned in the table, icons for the Whiterun Hold will blend in, and the contrast between table and icons might not be pleasant to the eye depending of the color. Wouldn't colouring the table for all places be more practical, like it is for capital cities? [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 16:37, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::It's less a matter of what they look like on the individual place pages and more of a useful hint that would appear on pages like [[Skyrim:Places]] where they're all together. They're listed alphabetically, so on that page you have no way of knowing what hold things are in without clicking each link individually. With color-coded icons, that information would be immediately available. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 18:23, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}So, I went ahead and tried implementing this on the place pages. They should change over gradually over the next few hours. (You can speed up the process by purging pages, but that shouldn't be necessary.) I figure the only way we'll really know how it looks is to see how it looks. If we hate it, it's as simple as rolling back my last 2 edits to {{tl|Place Summary}}. But let's see how it looks first. As for the interactive map, somebody with access to the server will need to figure out how to make these icons available there, and maybe they can figure out their proper hold automatically so as to prevent the real pain that would be editing all those individually. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 14:46, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:I think this is a good idea. Particularly for the lists and the map. (I'm indifferent about the place pages at the moment, but those that are appearing look OK to me.) Regarding the specific colours, if you're still considering their ease of viewing, did you consider the colours currently on the hold capital pages? These appear to be based on the banner and shield colours rather than the uniforms ([[SR:Falkreath|Falkreath]] in this case is a shade of blue rather than grey). I also was thinking, for consistency, that the icons would be more easily identifiable if they matched the colour of the Hold capital. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 15:46, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::Just to jump in very briefly on this, I think these could be neat for the map, but it would probably be better to leave the non-colored icons in place for wiki pages themselves. I don't think the guard uniform colors are universally recognizable enough for most users to realize what the colors mean, and we already list holds on the location pages anyway.
::On a side note, I ''do'' have ideas for Skyrim health/magicka/stamina icons (and a few others as well for the charts, such as weight and value), and actually made a few as a test. I'll upload them sometime soon (in another section) so you guys can take a look. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 17:42, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::: {{ec}} I '''strongly''' oppose using these icons on actual articles. They're unofficial and unnecessary. Place pages have a region parameter already. Icons are included on place summaries because they represent the place in-game, and adding colouring to them eliminates that purpose. The map is a different issue. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:44, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::: {{ec}} After looking at [[Skyrim:Places]], I am not very keen on the white bordered icons. I too support using these on the official map, but I think it might look better with the thick black border of the standard icons, with the center colored to match the hold. The white border is more distinctive on a dark grey background, but once the Skyrim map is colored, they will have significantly lower contrast. As for using them on the wiki, I'm on the fence about that one. On the one hand, why use colored icons when the official icons are perfectly fine? On the other hand, our entire Skyrim namespace is rather blandly colored, and these will add some strongly needed color to our pages. First, I'd like to see them replaced with thick black border versions, and then I'll see whether or not I think they would look good on the wiki. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 17:54, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::Elakyn suggested that the page tables be colored like they are for the hold capitals. I think that would be a great idea, if we're looking for color. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 17:58, 11 March 2013 (GMT)
::::::I support coloring the map icons, as it will look ordered and consistent, but coloring the icons on the Skyrim:Places page just looks messy. I'm more neutral on using colored icons in the articles, but they look a bit odd as the only color on the page. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 18:04, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}Per Legoless, I am '''absolutely''' against using unofficial icons on the wiki articles. Really, I'm sorta on the fence about them being on the map as well, because they are unofficial. If BethSoft wants to provide us with black and white assets, then we have black and white assets to work with.

And, I do have one question I don't have an answer for: Where do these colors come from that we use to represent places on the wiki? Are they from any in-game source, or just random colors chosen by whoever set up the hold pages and the infobox? If these are real colors from the game, and not random colors chosen by whoever made the box, I'll be a little bit more lenient towards the map, but my stance on the wiki articles is the same. [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 18:13, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}{{ec}}Can people calm down please? It was a ''trial run''. It's very simple to revert this back. I just wanted people to have a chance to see what it would look like before rushing to judgement. To address people's individual points:
*'''The icons are unofficial''': Big deal. A lot of our icons are "unofficial. The whole site is unofficial. It's right there in the name. If using the tinted achievement icon is okay to represent "trainer", then this is no different.
*'''The icons are unnecessary''': Nothing is "necessary", really. On the individual page it's less relevant, but having the icons colored on the place lists is very helpful and lets you know approximately where a location might be found without checking every page.
*'''White borders''': Not my idea. I put them on because other people objected to the black borders, which I did first. The look can be changed if people would come up with a suggestion, but nobody said anything even when I asked for opinions, so I decided to "be bold" and try it out.
*'''Hold capitals already have colors''': I wish somebody had said something about that sooner, though looking at them now I have some disagreements with the colors chosen for the capitals. Baby blue for Windhelm just seems wrong. The place is the capital of the Stormcloaks, and they use a much darker blue. The color we're using for Falkreath is more like what Windhelm should be, and matches the uniforms of the guards better.
Anyhow, as I see there's some rather strong objections, I'll go ahead and reverse the change, but people need to be a bit less vitriolic about this. I clearly stated it was a trial run when I did it, and even said that it would be easy to change back. It's not like it has some major impact that breaks the whole site. It's a minor aesthetic change. If you had such strong opinions about it, you should have spoken up when I asked for suggestions all of last week instead of jumping down my throat now. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 18:22, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:Personally I didn't have strong opinions either way until I saw the change put in place, which is why I decided to give my input, and I imagine the others that commented today had a similar experience. I'm not really opposed to color, to be honest, and I really like the shades you came up with for the icons. I think Elakyn and Vely might be on to something with the idea of coloring the tables instead. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 18:27, 11 March 2013 (GMT)
::I think the main issue was that the change was not communicated effectively. I suggested the white icons under the impression that they would be used only on the map, not on the wiki, and I support that, because the map tends to be darker and the white bordered icon might show up better. From rereading above, the majority of discussion revolved around the map, and it seems that most people support using it on the map, or are at least on the fence. This shouldn't be a both or neither situation. The change to the template came without any significant discussion about using it there at all. If you had changed the map icons to see what it would look like, I don't think anyone would have been opposed because we discussed that change. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 18:44, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::I'd like to try them on the map, but I can't because I don't have access to the server to upload the icons there. Also, Daveh is in the process of upgrading the map API, so any changes to it now might be a bad idea anyhow. Once the map upgrade is complete and somebody with server access gets those icons where they need to be, we can try it out there. I for one think consistency between the map and the wiki makes sense, and it'd be nice to use the icons in both places, provided we can come up with something that looks good in both. I think maybe going back to black borders, but making the colored part much lighter (though think less "florescent" and more "pastel") might work better. But I'd like to see more discussion on this, and a little less screaming please. You can't test this kind of thing without just doing it and seeing how it looks, and it's easily reverted. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 18:56, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::::This isn't perfect, but I went into Photoshop and did a quick mockup of what icons with black borders would look like, both on the wiki and our currently-grey map:
[[File:User-Jak Atackka-Discussion 01.png|center]]
::::Ignore the slight transparency issues with the borders of the icons on the grey; the actual icons would have a more solid border. I think this would look a lot better, personally. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 19:19, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::{{ec}}I just want to say that I liked how the different coloured icons turned out on [[SR:Places]], as, to me, it was much more useful for easy Hold differentiation that reading the associated text, and 30 icons that are all identical in one list seems a bit redundant (the icon in its monochrome form is at the top of the section anyway). I do however prefer the monochrome ones on the place pages themselves, as I think the colour there is unnecessary. Would it be technically possible to use the colours for the lists and the monochrome for the articles? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 19:22, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}I've made a colour comparison reference chart in my [[User:Enodoc/Sandbox/Hold Colours|sandbox]]. Feel free to add anything to it. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:41, 11 March 2013 (GMT)
{{User:Enodoc/Sandbox/Hold Colours}}

:The maps are where I'd like to see this change the most, but it's not something I can implement on my own, despite having server access. Now that I've looked into it a bit, there are two approaches that I can see, one would be expanding the list of icons (dramatically) to include coloured versions of each, as I suggested in Dave's topic; the other would involve using the "Region" field in the database, which is currently unused in Skyrim, except as a convenient behind-the-scenes way to flag Hearthfire icons. The second solution makes the most sense and would probably involve only minimal changes to the map code, but either way requires PHP programming, which is very likely going to be Dave's domain. The one thing I probably could do easily enough is to fill in that region from the associated wiki page, as Lurlock suggested, partly by bot, partly by hand. Before I do that, though, I'll wait to see if that's what Dave wants. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:26, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::Yeah, so we now have FOUR sets of colors for the holds? Whew. I'm thinking something between my set and the hold capital colors should be used all around. Those capital colors are just all kinds of wrong to me - just way too bright and jolly, candy-like (except oddly The Reach - that one's really dark in all 4 sets.) The banner colors are better, but several of them are pretty similar, even more so than my first offering. The shield colors are way too dark - especially the one for The Pale. I mean, it's called "The Pale". That color is anything but. Eastmarch, Falkreath and the Rift are also nearly indistinguishable. Also, I think a better arrangement for comparison would be to have switch the rows and columns, like so:
::{{User:TheRealLurlock/Sandbox XVII/Colors}}
::That way you can see how each set looks together more easily. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 22:00, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Hey ho, fair enough. Yes, that does make comparison between sets easier. My aim was for comparison between the different versions of colours for each hold. The Banner and Shield colours are directly from the assets, and indeed they are not the best alone. Personally, I think something between yours and the banner colours would be best, and then we could change the hold capital ones to match. (I also assume the hold capital ones were originally derived from saturated versions of the shield colours.) --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 22:14, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::::I like some of those, doing a bit of a montage (ms paint, nothing fancy) chosing TLR's colors for Haafingar, Hjaalmarch, The Rift, and The Reach, hold capital for Whiterun and Winterhold and shield for Falkreath. For Eastmarch and The Pale I chose TLR's colors and cranked saturation and luminosity a bit. And Solstheim, well I like this icy-blue but it looks a bit too much like some of the Stormcloaks colors. Overall, there's a good contrast between both the different holds and the grey of the map but that's just what I think. [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 22:59, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::I've added your suggestion, plus one I was working on as well, to my comparison chart above. (I'm not sure how much you cranked your sat and lum, so I went for 20 each.) --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:56, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::::::Yay colors! I like Enodoc's line on the first chart, but the first column (current icon) on the second is also good; both of these color sets use shades that are around the same "intensity" (I know I'm using the wrong word here, but what I mean is that none of the colors stands out as being much lighter or much darker than the others, so they all look nice together) and they're pretty easy to distinguish from one another. Nice work, guys! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 02:03, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::::Just so you know, the two charts are using the exact same colors, just with rows+columns swapped. (Also mine is alphabetized, <s>and I haven't added those two extra rows (columns in my case) yet</s>). So the first column on my chart is identical to the first row on Enodoc's (and also happens to be the colors used in the currently uploaded set of icons.) If that's the colors people like, then that's great because they're already done. (Although I could change them all to use a black border instead of white and re-upload them yet again... I really should either figure out how to make a bot to do that, or find some way of uploading a whole set of images that doesn't require me to sit there doing them all one at a time...) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:46, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

::::::::Yeah, I did notice that—I meant the ''line'' labeled Enodoc, so the last line in the first chart. The ones in use are okay, but I like the colors on that line slightly better. To be specific, I like the purple for Falkreath and that the yellow for Whiterun actually looks yellow, plus it's much easier to distinguish between Falkreath and The Pale, etc. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 19:50, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} Just a quick comment for TRL; the capital colors are shades of colors I pulled from the guard colors. So, no, they are not ''all kinds of wrong''. [[User:Elliot|Elliot]] ([[User talk:Elliot|talk]]) 20:38, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

== Maps Re-Working ==

I'm going to have to upgrade the interactive Google maps to use the v3 API shortly (v2 API is being deprecated) and figured I might as well see what other map features and work can done at the same time. I've listed a bunch of things below but feel free to add other items. I'll gather the list in a week or so and see which ones I can easily implement.

:* '''Skyrim'''
::* Colored maps
::* DLC maps
::* Ingredient and ore locations (probably in the same format that Nephele did for Oblivion)
:* '''General'''
::* Update to use the v3 API
::* Option to disable location display
::* Look at location label format
::* General format/style/UI update particularly with any new API v3 options
::* Printable map?
::* Offline map?
::* App for mobile?
::* Roads/paths?
:* '''Other Things'''
::* Streetview (probably not worth the effort)
::* Interior maps (may be nice but likely hard/impossible to automate their generation and thus very time consuming given the number of interior cells)
::* Interactive user editing: Users could mark-up a map (add locations, notes, paths, etc...) which would be saved and shared with other users. Unsure of the usefulness of such a feature given how much effort would be required to create it.

Keep in mind that not all features listed here will be implemented. If anyone wants to help work on the map coding just let me know. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 21:59, 5 March 2013 (GMT)

:The colour-coded icons from the discussion above would be nice. Right now, I believe the only way to do it would be to implement separate icons for each hold. If we can have a hold list (with some back-end programming to pick the right colour), or perhaps just a straight-forward colour drop-down, that should do it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 06:40, 7 March 2013 (GMT)

::Note that I didn't make every icon in every color, only the ones we'd actually need. Making all of them would mean 580 icons, instead of just 205, so more than half of them would not be used. That might preclude (or at least complicate) a "drop-down" option if such a drop-down were expecting all 10 colors to exist... — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 13:23, 7 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} While we're upgrading this, can we do anything to make the map editor easier to use? It's seriously confusing figuring out how to do something as simple as add a map marker. I always end up just clicking buttons at random and often reentering the info several times before it actually takes. It's ridiculously unintuitive. Something that allows click-and-drag for marker placement would be much better. Also, having to scroll down the page to see the controls is very much not ideal, since scrolling also zooms on the map, which can make you completely lose your place. I think the edit tools should be on the side, (making the map box itself smaller on the editing page) so there's no page scrolling required at all. Either that or in some kind of pop-up. I hope the v3 API addresses some of these issues, because it's just a pain to use as it is right now. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 20:19, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

:The edit thing is entirely custom and was done very quickly without any consideration for ease of use. It was intended to be rarely used so getting a nice design wasn't a priority. Since we're using it more often now it is definitely something I can look at improving. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 21:04, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

::Another useful thing would be the ability to tag icons according to which DLC they come from, then turn those icons on or off, either dynamically or as a preference setting. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:28, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Layer capability would be good. Several requests for DLC or mod related versions of the map have been voiced. If the API is to be used for other TES titles - like Arena or Daggerfall - then perhaps standards for what features are implemented for each program might be useful. [[User:Igor van Dame|Igor van Dame]] ([[User talk:Igor van Dame|talk]]) 03:36, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

== Sidebar Reorganization - Revisited ==

Hello everyone! It's been a while since this was [[UESPWiki:Community Portal/Archive 33#Sidebar Reorganization|last discussed]], but I've recently given it some thought, and I have a few ideas. For those that don't know, I wrote some code for a [[User:Jak Atackka/sidebar.js|collapsible sidebar]] a while back; you can see what it looks like by doing the following:

# Go to [[Special:MyPage/monobook.js|your Javascript page]].
# Add this on a new line: <code>importScript('User:Jak_Atackka/sidebar.js');</code> If you haven't created this page, then go ahead and do so.
# Save the page. You may have to "hard refresh". To do so, just hold down the Shift key while you click the Refresh button.

I've been using this for a long time now (as have a number of other users), and I can't imagine using the sidebar without it. It's been thoroughly debugged, and it works flawlessly on every browser I've tested, including mobile ones. However, I think it's time to move it out of my userspace and somewhere more official. There are a few options for this:

# ''Move it under [[UESPWiki:Javascript]].'' This is where all of the "official" Javascript applets are. This would have minimal impact.
# ''Make it into a [[Special:Gadgets|gadget]].'' This would allow you to add it from [[Special:Preferences|your preferences page]]. This would have slightly more impact, as editors here will be more likely to stumble upon it.
# ''Make it into an [[Special:Version#Installed_extensions|extension]].'' This would implement it site-wide, for both anonymous users and editors, and would have maximum impact.

Last time this was discussed, there was strong approval from the users that tried the applet to implement it site-wide, but I want to see what everyone else thinks about this. One thing I should note is that this is Javascript only. It doesn't affect how the sidebar loads; rather, it changes the sidebar's appearance after it has loaded, which means that users with Javascript disabled will not be affected by this. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 17:05, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

:Very nice...I had this on my own to-do list as well. I was also thinking about deeper collapsible menus for the main topics in each game but I think that better looked at separately. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 21:10, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

:{{ec}}I would think it should go under Javascript. While it ''is'' a fancy toolbar, not everyone may find it desirable to have a fancy toolbar, so I am opposed to it being forced into use across the board. Gadgets, I know nothing of, and I won't speak of. [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 21:13, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

::I would put it under Gadgets for the same reason Snowmane cited for making it Javascript. Snowmane: the only difference between JS and a Gadget (from the user's perspective, anyway) is how easy it is to enable/disable. A Gadget is just a check box in [[Special:Preferences|My Preferences]] whereas Javascript takes a moderate amount of knowledge to create the appropriate skin.js page. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:32, 8 March 2013 (GMT)
:::I was running the Javascript sidebar until a few days ago, and had no problems with it. I only removed it because I just didn't want to have to click that one extra time to expand it. I think it would be more convenient for editors to use if it was a gadget. I had actually wanted to remove it a few days earlier, but couldn't remember the name of the page where it was loaded. Having it as a selectable gadget would be much simpler for those who want to use it. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 00:03, 9 March 2013 (GMT)
::::I'm a user of your collapsible sidebar, and it is awesome. The only difference it would make to me, if it were made into a Gadget or Extension, is one less line of code in my [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/monobook.js|monobook.js]], which has many other modifications too. Would implementing it as a either of these options override the other changes in my own Javascript? – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 00:58, 10 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}}RH: I meant, I knew that gadgets use the tick boxes, I meant, I don't know how ''easy'' it would be to implement it that way... Not that it matters, because whoever wants it bad enough as a gadget would find a way to make it work lol. I just wanted to clarify that I was speaking for ease of implementing it more widely. [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 01:11, 10 March 2013 (GMT)

:It's been a while since I set one up on my test wiki, but as I recall, it's pretty simple...basically just a matter of copying the Javascript, then specifying what text to display in your preferences. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:14, 10 March 2013 (GMT)

::Daric: Well, it depends on how they interact. In general, though, anything on your personal monobook.js (or common.js) file takes priority over all other Javascript code. If, for example, you completely removed the sidebar in your monobook.js file, then it would be gone.
::Snowmane: From what I've seen, it's fairly easy to do, and as RH said above, it mainly involves copy-pasting the code to a certain page, and then making a few other small changes.
::So, is the general consensus here to make it a Gadget and make it available to logged-in users only? I personally would like this to be available to everyone, because it makes the whole sidebar much cleaner, is simple and intuitive, and allows us to list multiple significant DLC listed at once without worrying about the sidebar becoming longer than the actual article. The primary purpose of this is functionality, and it allows us to list all recent DLC (and, for that matter, ''all'' DLC) in such a way that doesn't crowd the sidebar. Although, it would also help to modernize our site some, without doing so obtrusively or in a way that's distracting. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 06:57, 10 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Would it be possible to put it up temporarily (a few days, a week, etc.) and add a poll somewhere asking whether users (anon or otherwise) like the new layout? Could link to it through a little question mark or phrase next to the word "sections" or as its own bullet beneath the games list, like how we have "What is this Ad?" to link to info about ads on the site. That way, we get feedback from the majority of users, not just the ones interested in the CP, which often doesn't include anons.

:::I'm in favor of implementing it site-wide, but if not, then a gadget would be nice. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 22:15, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::::It's very nice. I would have no objections to it being site-wide, but otherwise a gadget would be good. A slight niggle - the ''All Content'' link has disappeared, and that was the first thing I noticed. I think I see it in the code as being removed, so I'm sure it's intentional. What's the reasoning behind that? (I never use it anyway, just curious.) --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 22:55, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}My one concern in this fancy sidebar is what kind of changes would be needed to override the thing if it was implemented site-wide? I spent many months using the fancy sidebar, being one of the first Jak showed it to, but I've since discontinued it in favor of my own list that was short, sweet, and to the point for what my needs on the wiki are. Maybe another user is the same as me, and they don't want the sidebar showing absolutely everything there is.

Is it going to be easy, if this thing were implemented across the board, for someone like me to manually override the fanciness of it in order to have a basic table? And, on top of that, is it going to be as easy as how it [[User:Eric Snowmane/monobook.js|currently is]] to make such changes? As it stands, the navbar is rather navigable and customizable, and unless you specifically needed the extra features, I would rather not have that customization taken away for the fanciness of Jak's dropdown menu filled with every link the site links to. Looking at Jak's code, you'd need to have a clue what you're doing in order to make customizations to it, whereas with the current layout, it's rather easy to add or remove entries. I, personally, don't want a navbar hardwired to one set layout. I want the vast customization that the current layout provides to me, which is why a gadget for those who really want it seems more desirable to me. Jak's dropdown may look pretty, but if it's not easy to use, it's not going to be at all desirable to have, in my opinion.

I'm not saying his navbar is ''bad'', mind you, although I might possibly sound harsh with my words, knowing how I am with words, I'm just explaining that the ability to customize it is what I find to be important. [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 23:10, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:''Velyanthe'': Exactly my thoughts. Ultimately, this isn't for our benefit - it's for the benefit of anonymous users. The only way to accurately gauge their reaction is to test this site-wide for a few weeks, and have some sort of comment submission form (like the "Report Ad" feature, except it could go to my email instead) to determine what they think.
:''Enodoc'': Yes, I intentionally removed it, because in all honesty, it is irrelevant. We already link to all of the content from the sidebar; why have one other link?
:''Snowmane'': The [[UESPWiki:Javascript/Modify Sidebar|Modify Sidebar]] customization is fully compatible with this (or at least will be with only very minor modifications). This only alters the Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, and Other Games menus, as well as removing "All Content". If this is implemented site-wide, then Modify Sidebar will be guaranteed to override this, and you'll be able to modify this as you please.
:One thing we would have to decide is, which version do we use? This is technically two versions in one; you can see the other version by adding or removing the line <code>linkGames = true;</code> from [[Special:MyPage/monobook.js|your Javascript page]]; alternately, you can look below to see a (rough) representation of it. It's not very good, but it describes the difference well enough:
{{Showhide/Start|Difference Between Two Versions}}
{{User:Jak Atackka/Sandbox9}}
{{Showhide/End}}
:I personally prefer the Alternate version, as it's more compact. The only difference is that with the Alternate version, you can only expand the menu by clicking on the arrow, whereas with the Default version, you can click on the unlinked word. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 23:36, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::Personally, I prefer the alternate, but I think most users will find it easier to use the default--there would be less confusion and it would be easier to handle, I think. No "Where'd the stuff go and why's there a triangle?", but rather "Where'd it all go? What if I click... aha!" '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 23:46, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Okay, I tried making an extension, but it didn't work very well. I can, however, copy/paste it into the wiki's [[MediaWiki:Common.js|Common.js]] file, which has the same site-wide effect. I tested it on the dev wiki, and it works just fine, so all I need is the go-ahead to implement this site-wide for a short test period. I don't have a feedback method set up, so I guess I'll just keep an eye out for what people say. Note that anyone that is using my <code>[[User:Jak Atackka/sidebar.js]]</code> will have to disable it, or otherwise your sidebar will get all borked up. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 19:25, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

::::If you want a way to receive feedback, Jak, I have the Google Docs thing, so I can make simple feedback forms, if you like the idea and don't want to yourself, then I can share them with you. I assume, being a good personal friend, you wouldn't abuse the privilege of knowing my password if I PM'd you on Facebook? There are several ways you can do it, actually, but a brief survey of a few questions strikes me as a fairly simply thing to make, and we could have one in minutes at your desire. Or, you can download the things and run all this yourself. It's not a large download, but you don't have the best network, so everything is a pain for you. Just a helpful suggestion :P :) [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 20:39, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

::::::Of course I would abuse that privilege :P. Jokes aside, though, I'm not sure that a feedback form is strictly necessary. Effectively, the entire website is a feedback form - if users have an issue with something, they bring it up on a talk page or change it themselves. What I really need, though, is more feedback from other users on this site. So far, five users have replied to this discussion, only one of which is an admin. I need the approval of more users, especially admins, before I test this out, because it is a significant change that strongly affects site navigation. If anyone is just joining this discussion, I'll be using the ''Default'' version, which is (roughly) displayed in the above ShowHide. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 22:31, 17 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} Those black, non-clickable links in my sidebar always bothered me. I've just implemented <code>linkGames = true;</code> and it looks much better aesthetically, IMHO. The triangles retain the functionality, but the clickable names make it look much better. My vote is for the alternate option, but I'm not an admin. Please let us know before you decide to make this change, as I don't want an ''"all borked up"'' sidebar, to use your eloquent terminology, Jak. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 05:27, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

: I thought I'd try out the Alternate, to join in the recent trend, and I also agree that it looks better. It restores consistency to the sidebar style that was lost by the black text. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:33, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

:: I agree that the Alternate is much better; however, I'm concerned with whether or not people will know how to use it right off the bat. With the black text, it's very obvious that it's separate from the other entries, and I imagine that people will be like "Hm, I wonder what happens if I click here... aha!" With the Alternate, however, the only indication of how it works is the arrows, which not everyone will notice right away. However, if you feel that we'd be better off using the Alternate version (which I wouldn't mind), then we can do that. I'm still waiting on the approval of an admin; otherwise, I will implement this after waiting a week whether you like it or not :) • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 18:58, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

:::If we had to implement this site-wide, I think the black text is ideal. Otherwise, there would be loads of people (like me, undoubtedly), who would click the blue "Morrowind" expecting it to drop as designed, only to be directed to [[MW:Morrowind]]. It's not so visibly pleasing, but on the other hand, it becomes easier to use with black drop down text. You've gotta take the good with the bad, and I'd take functionality over whether or not it's aesthetically pleasing. [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 19:18, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

::::Seems to me then that the logical answer would be to make the default one a site-wide change (joining Jak here in a call for more admin input first) and then let those who want the alternate to still be able to do so by adding <code>linkGames = true;</code> into their own [[Special:MyPage/monobook.js|Javascript page]]. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 22:43, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::Speaking as an admin (since you keep asking), I'll just say that I've been using Jak's sidebar for months now and have had no problem with it. Mind you, this means that it will make no difference to me whether it's site-wide or not. And I'm honestly not sure whether an admin's opinion on this is any more valid than anyone else's. On the contrary, I probably don't use the site the same way as the average visitor, nor do most of the admins and other regular editors - which is to say most if not all of the people who have so far contributed to this discussion. But I don't really see any reason why not to just do it. The only other option I can think of is that we could potentially have both versions available as a choice in your user prefs, which would be a pretty fair compromise. Yes, you can always override whatever is there by editing your monobook.js page, but I don't think the average user should be expected to know how to do that, so a simple checkbox or drop-down list in the user prefs seems to be the best way to keep all options available. Assuming we can make that happen easily, of course. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 00:21, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

=== Sidebar Reorganization - Edit Break 1 ===
'''UPDATE''': Check out the new sidebar! I ended up implementing the default version, but I added a gadget that allows you to convert it to the alternate version - check your [[Special:Preferences|Preferences]] and you'll see it under "Gadgets". Anyone that's using <code>[[User:Jak Atackka/sidebar.js]]</code> will want to stop using it; if you're still using it, you can probably see why. Any feedback here is appreciated! • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 02:18, 19 March 2013 (GMT)
:My feedback: The links are dropdown menus, rather than the basic lists that I wanted, and, like I said, it's not desirable to me, personally. The only links on the thing that I ''haven't'' modified are the three Gamespaces that you've set to drop down, and I don't want them dropping down to show that mess of useless links. May you instruct me on how to revert it to showing ''just'' what I have it set to show? And, afterthought that's unrelated: How do I remove expansions from the sidebar? It doesn't work the same as removing a main game, it seems. [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 03:02, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

::Well, the whole point of the sidebar was that it would contain every link that you could possibly need, yet is hidden if you don't want it. As for customizing it, ModifySidebar ''should'' work with it (if not now, it will soon). However, that really has to wait. I have 3 finals tomorrow that I have to study for, and right after that I'll be out of town for the rest of the week, so this will just have to wait. In the mean time, you can use the gadget that neatens it. This will at least give you an idea of what the anonymous users of our site have to use, and how we can improve their experience. After all, our readers come first. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 03:09, 19 March 2013 (GMT)
:::And on that note, ModifySidebar doesn't seem to work anymore. Please fix it when you can...I'm lost without my "toolbox" button! Alternately, perhaps after others have looked at it over the next day or so, we can revert the JS changes until you're back...unless I'm the only one having this issue. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:11, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

::::Since it's Jak's project and wish to put his fancy drop menus on the site, I'd support reverting it to default until he's actually able to fix it properly, rather than have everyone hanging out to dry while he's off taking his exams. [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 04:30, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::ModifySidebar hasn't worked for me since the wiki's upgrade to 1.19 (or roughly since that point), so my sidebar code definitely isn't the culprit.
:::::I just went on the dev wiki and tested it after disabling the collapsible sidebar, and confirmed that ModifySidebar is indeed broken. It appears that there is some sort of significant error that not all browsers catch, or at least not all the time. I tested it out for a bit, and I got it to remove one link one time, but even after hitting "Show preview" without touching the code, I couldn't replicate it. Something is definitely wrong with it; judging by the fact that it failed for me right around the 1.19 upgrade, I suspect that it's the culprit. I never touched it, so it's not me. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 04:50, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}Well, until it's fixed, how about that revert for the time being until it could be given attention? Otherwise, there's gonna be a load of people who might have broken things while you're gone and unable to test and fix. [[User:Eric Snowmane|'''Snowmane''']]➚([[User talk:Eric Snowmane|'''talk''']]•[[Special:EmailUser/Eric Snowmane|'''email''']]) 04:53, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

:This custom sidebar has been actively used since last September, and in the past 8 months no bugs (major or minor) have been reported. I've tested it on multiple versions of all five major browsers, and even my iPhone, and it works flawlessly. ModifySidebar and this are two completely separate things, and at least according to my tests, ModifySidebar is completely broken, regardless of the sidebar. There's no real reason to disable the custom sidebar, unless there's a significant dislike of it, or it is causing significant problems. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 05:06, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

::Jak: double-check how you're activating ModifySidebar. I remember there was something about that that made it function intermittently unless you did it just right. That's why I copied the ModifySidebar code into my JS instead of just calling it from the Javascript page. I can assure you that, with whatever changes I'd made to how it was activated, it was working fine alongside the custom sidebar up until today. Otherwise I wouldn't have complained about my missing toolbox. :) If it's not that, then load order may be an issue in some way. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:12, 19 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Hm, strange. You're right, copying the ModifySidebar code fixes it, but I just tested your customizations on the dev wiki, and it works just fine. Very strange. Maybe you're having a caching issue?
:::It could possibly be that you are hiding "All Content" twice, both with the collapsible sidebar and with ModifySidebar, which is throwing an error (because it doesn't always hide them in the same order). Other than that, though, if you're still having errors, then go ahead and undo the site-wide change for further testing. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 05:21, 19 March 2013 (GMT)
::::I've been using both ModifySidebar and Jak's <code>sidebar.js</code> for some time now, under Firefox v18 and v19, and have not had any problems with them. Since the change to a site-wide drop-down sidebar, I had initial problems with the conflict with my [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/monobook.js|monobook.js]] until I removed Jak's <code>sidebar.js</code> as instructed. I've also enabled the Gadget to provide the alternate version. It all seems to be working fine here, and my modifications using ModifySidebar are still in place and working fine. Just saying, my experience with the change has been positive over all, and I'm quite happy with things how they are. For me, the only difference has been one less line of code in my [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/monobook.js|monobook.js]], which I'm happy to revert temporarily if need be, to go back to using Jak's <code>sidebar.js</code> in the meantime if the site-wide situation needs fixing. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 08:02, 19 March 2013 (GMT)
:::::Did you guys both do hard refreshes? As you can see in my JS, I've reduced my changes to a simple clearing of the general section, then adding RC back in, and it still does nothing. I'll play around with it some more tomorrow...too late right now. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 08:38, 19 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}} Have you cleared up your sidebar issues, RobinHood70? If not, I'll be glad to try to investigate the cause of this problem. I assume that it might be a load order issue, which unfortunately I'm not sure how to counter. I'll ask Daveh what the wiki sets MediaWiki:Common.js and user .js browser cache times to, because it's possible caching is disabled for one or the other (it's the only other thing I can think of off the top of my head).

There have been some recent [[DB talk:Dragonborn#says dragonborn is official plugin but not listed under tab on side bar|complaints]] about the sidebar, and I'm willing to fix them. One complaint I heard was that it's ugly, which I agree with. I originally decided to do it this way with the hopes that it would be a bit more obvious that they aren't normal links, but I'm considering switching it to the much better looking Alternate version. Another complaint was that the DLC is sorted rather arbitrarily; why, for instance, is Dragonborn listed under Skyrim, but the other DLC under "Official Plug-ins"? It's a valid complaint, and I wish I'd heard it sooner. That's why I've repeatedly asked for more input from the community. So far, about half a dozen people have contributed to this discussion, which is very bad because it gives us a very limited idea of what we need. It's hard to gauge usability when only one new person has tried it. However, it seems that nobody else is very interested in the sidebar, so I'll stop begging for more input on this, and just hope that what I do is agreeable.

Moving forward, there are a few possible changes that can be made:
*Replace the black, unlinked labels with links. It won't be as obvious that it's a drop-down menu, but it'll look ''much'' better.
*Remove the "Official Plug-ins" menu from Skyrim. The only minor DLC so far is Hearthfire, and it would just be stupid for it to have its own menu.
*Rename the "Official Plug-ins" menu from Oblivion. For Morrowind, that name makes sense, but for Oblivion, it doesn't. I'm leaning towards "Official DLC".
Discuss it, or don't discuss it. If there aren't any negative votes, then I'll implement all of these changes in a few days. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 08:20, 23 March 2013 (GMT)
: {{LE|As|Daric's_Former_Viewpoint}} far as the grouping is concerned, what you have at present follows the namespace conventions for the wiki, as far as I understand them. I never did like like the way the UESP segregated major DLCs from minor DLCs, and I'm sure I have voiced that opinion elsewhere. But the important issue here is that it is consistent. I personally think it is consistently wrong, but I'm not going to ask you to change the whole namespace organization of the UESP wiki just so that the sidebar can become consistent with it. What you have presently, in the way of grouping, is logical, as far as the rest of the site is concerned. I don't think it needs changing unless you plan on changing the whole namespace organization of the UESP wiki as well. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 12:02, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

::Jak: I haven't been able to get it working, but I at least have a bit of an idea what's going on. You've done more research on jQuery and such than I have (which is to say, you've done some), so maybe you'll know. The problem seems to relate to the use of $() vs. addOnloadHook(). A while ago, I was told that the jQuery way ($()) was ''the'' way to do it, and I'm pretty sure addOnloadHook was deprecated. As I recall, addOnloadHook also caused a race condition, meaning some things would load correctly and others wouldn't. I don't remember the specifics off-hand, I just remember that JS add-ons would intermittently fail to load. Anyway, since your sidebar went into the site's code instead of being loaded by my own code, my entire common.js file fails, not just ModifySidebar. And it doesn't seem to be just me...addsince.js uses the jQuery method and that script fails too, both for me and one of my doppelgangers, unless I copy the entire script and change the $ to addOnloadHook. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:06, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

:::A suggestion - could you replace the black with the blue, but keep the default click action being expand, with the link remaining in the sub-menu? That may make it look better but keep the functionality it currently has. I agree with the changes to the Skyrim and Oblivion menus. For reference purposes, all three Skyrim DLCs have been called "Add-Ons", coded as DLC1 (DG), BYoH (HF) and DLC2 (DB). There is no consistency within them, and no complete consistency between them and us, so I don't think the separate namespaces is a viable reason in this case for the menu to function differently. It helps with our organisation, but I don't think it means a lot to the readers as a whole. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 23:06, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

::::Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to respond to you all.
::::[[User:Daric Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]: We currently differentiate our DLC by the fairly good criteria of whether or not it introduces a significant, ''separate'' world space; anything that doesn't is considered minor DLC. Part of the justification for this is that if it consists of minor additions to the base game, having a separate namespace for it is infeasible. However, if we integrate the DLC with the main namespace, then we'll have significant chunks of information that are DLC-specific, and I for one hate reading a wiki on a game and learning all of this cool information, only to discover that it's DLC only. However, that's a conversation for another time.
::::[[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]: This gets weirder and weirder. Could this possibly be a browser issue? I'll definitely look into it. I may be able to replace the jQuery method with the old method, as they both are for our purposes practically identical.
::::[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]]: That would be a good compromise, especially so because if people click on the link to go to Skyrim, it'll instead expand the whole menu.
::::One other thing I could do is move ''Knights of the Nine'' under the main Oblivion menu, next to ''Shivering Isles''. I think Enodoc is right - our sidebar doesn't necessarily have to line up with our namespaces. The namespaces are primarily structural, whereas the sidebar is just for convenience. Personally, when I think of Oblivion DLC, the two that pop in my mind are SI and KotN, so I think it makes sense to move KotN up. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 07:25, 24 March 2013 (GMT)
::::: so i was making a similar point on the talk page for dragonborn but i will also post it here, the sidebar for navigation is there for ease of use, so the most important factor in my mind is keeping it easy to use. making loads of changes some of which are a bit random makes it annoying to use. a lot of it is deciding when something gets its own bar which seems to be solely based on namespace. so you could change the bar to name the location instead of dlc or plug in so it says skyrim, skyrim and lists all the plug ins associated with the mainland and then skyrim, solstiem (sp?) and lists those games, i.e. dragonborn. and do the same with oblivion and morrowind which would get you the same setup but with more clear reasoning behind the order. the other point i would make for skyrim being as there are only 3 plug ins once you click the skyrim tab its far to assume that people would like to see all 3 listed there without additional links. i understand the 9 oblivion minor dlcs being cluttered but having a separate menu for plugins that arnt dragonborn to list the other 2 seems like a waste of time. i mostly really miss being able to logon to uesp and click heartfire right away to get to construction pages, now i have to go through so many levels i end up just typing it in the searchbar instead, negating the purpose of having a quick navigation page. my 2 cents--[[User:Lord.Baal|Lord.Baal]] ([[User talk:Lord.Baal|talk]]) 08:59, 24 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}} Thanks for the reply, Jak, and yeah, for another time. In fact, I've had that discussion before, and I understand UESP's position, I just think it is wrong, personal preference and all that. Speaking of which, I am opposed to Enodoc's suggestion, on the grounds that, if you set the color of those "pseudolinks" (as I call them) from black to blue, to match the other links in the sidebar, you could be getting them out of step with those of us who have customized our browser's color scheme. What most of us see as blue links or purple visited links are actually <code>A:link=</code> and <code>A:visited=</code> variables which can be set in the browser's preferences. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 09:19, 24 March 2013 (GMT)
:My god, these sections get so large and unattractive, forgive me for not reading this rambling. Here's the deal: the alternate sidebar is still not correct because the only things that need to be dropdown are the Official Plugins, and the Other Games I suppose. And then, don't call the Skyrim DLC 'Official Plugins', stick to the official name, and especially don't separate Dragonborn from the other DLCs because that's complete bullcrap. Don't tell me how DB has it's own namespace and DG doesn't and that's why, because that's clearly a huge error that needs to be fixed, but let's leave that discussion for another section ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 10:53, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

:: I don’t think this should be a discussion about what looks good to ''us'', it should be a discussion about what looks good for the players out there – the people that hits the site for information. The recently changed sidebar makes it even more difficult to navigate the site and find what you’re looking for (and we are notorious for being difficult to navigate in the first place), so it needs to be tweaked. I have absolutely no idea how, as I found the old sidebar to be the best solution. I’m also unsure why it had to be changed in the first place? Why not show that we have content for ALL games in existence instead of hiding old games like Redguard away like dirty secrets? Why hide the Dragonborn namespace? If it is because the sidebar gets too long, then I’m pretty convinced that people will figure out how to scroll the page down before they find the tons of hidden subsections we currently have. Like I said, I have no idea how to improve the old sidebar and I’m open for suggestions – but why fix what wasn’t broken? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 11:34, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

::: Firstly, I agree with moving KotN up to being under the main Oblivion entry. It is considered seperate to the other DLCs in the Official Guide as well. Perhaps, as Krusty says, it is better to avoid hiding everything for each section, and instead hide those entries which were not there before, namely the extended plug-in/DLC lists and TES Travels menu. Regarding the blue, as I mentioned before, would it be possible to code the js to read the defined A:link colour (whether that be blue or otherwise), to fix the problem of colour preferences mentioned by Daric? --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 15:58, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

:::: i am loving what i am hearing right now, all good points, i would say the biggest being why fix what is not broken, did anyone complain about the old sidebar and having a few items showing under each game? the new style is definitely worse. i also wanted to comment that the guy who mentioned the namespace disputes about dawngaird and dragonborn is dead on, dawnguard could easily get its own namespace as it has a large number of new quests and quite a few new areas to explore. a poll of users would be nice to see what they prefer since so few ppl actually comment on it and i would love to see what a large sample of users think.--[[User:Lord.Baal|Lord.Baal]] ([[User talk:Lord.Baal|talk]]) 04:23, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

=== Sidebar Reorganization - Edit Break 2 ===
The only part of the sidebar that seems to be under dispute here is the '''Sections''' group, which we cannot seem to edit, as regular users, through the use of <code>ModifySidebar()</code> in our [[Special:MyPage/monobook.js|monobook.js]] files. Is there any way that we could have access to the '''Sections''' group, so that we can set up the sidebar to our heart's content, the same way we can do for the '''Toolbox''' (p-tb), '''General''' (p-general) and '''Community''' (p-community) groups? – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 06:00, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

:Okay, I implemented the suggested changes. I'm trying to figure out why ModifySidebar isn't working, because it makes absolutely no sense. It works perfectly on the dev wiki, but when the exact same code is used here, it seems to throw a syntax error. I'm still looking into it. In the mean time, though, you can try out the (IMO) improved sidebar - disable the gadget that alters this to see the full effect. I'm also preparing a much more in-depth response to the concerns brought up thus far, but right now I am completely exhausted from my out-of-town trip, and it'll be a few days before my mind clears enough for me to make a complete response. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 00:18, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

::It's about time I've explained myself - why I made this, why I implemented this without full consensus, and what I plan to do about it. I'll put it in a Showhide, so as not to completely throw off the discussion.

{{Showhide/Start|My Thoughts}}
::'''"Why?"''' 
::There have been [[UESPWiki:Archive/CP Sidebar Capitalization|quite]] [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal/Archive_21#Dawnstar to Sidebar?|a]] [[UESPWiki:Archive/CP Mobile Game Page Names|few]] [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal/Archive_33#Sidebar_Reorganization|discussions]] about modifying the sidebar, and some of them have gotten [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal/Archive_33#Dawnguard_subsection_on_the_left_sidebar|pretty heated]]. It basically boils down to two opposing, equally valid viewpoints. One is that the sidebar is meant for navigation and ease of use, and thus should have any links that users would find useful. The other is that the sidebar has to maintain structure, and frequently changing it isn't good for our users; also, overly long sidebars are bad. As a compromise, I created this. Combining the ease of use and number of links of the first option with the conciseness of the second option, it allows us to neatly display any useful link that we could possibly want, without worrying about the sidebar becoming polluted or messy.

::''"Does it actually make a difference?"'' 
::I'd say so. To look at the unaltered sidebar, just go to [[Special:Preferences]]. With the old sidebar, we were running into numerous pages where the sidebar was longer than the article itself, which is a very bad design (look at dailymail.co.uk to see what I mean. We don't have it ''that'' bad, but it shows why that's a bad design idea). In addition, every time a new DLC was announced, the site would devolve into a massive argument over what links should go and what links should stay, only to end in a thin, forced consensus in which the other 49% of the users were left unhappy. I decided that we needed a more permanent solution.

::''"What's with the Official Add-ons/Plugins? No one needs those."'' 
::Honestly, yes, they are rather useless. However, I figured that since I was making an all-inclusive solution, I could simply add those two collapsible menus and cover all of the bases with very little space impact. I've actually had to use those sub-menus a few times, so they are useful - just very rarely.

::''"Why are all of the other games under "Other Games" instead of being displayed?"'' 
::This was the one thing that I wasn't so keen about. However, in the end, I made a conscious decision to do so, for one reason only: It saves a lot of space, by replacing six entries with just one. All of the games are still there, and I didn't call them anything potentially demeaning like "Spinoff Games", but if you can think of a better term, you're welcome to suggest it.

::'''"Why did you implement this site-wide without full consensus?"''' 
::I mostly did it because there was no other way. Having seen the way that these discussions have played out in the past, I know that consensus is ''never'' reached; the closest thing is a slight majority. The discussions either devolve into a shouting contest or simply stall, because no action has been taken, because consensus hasn't been reached, and so on. This creates a vicious cycle in which nothing gets done, so sometimes you have to step up and do something, in order to move the discussion along and to ultimately get something done. That's the reason why I did it ''without complete consensus''; the reason why I did it in the first place is completely different. Vely suggested implementing it site-wide for a trial period, and I agreed to do it for two primary reasons - because it's the only way to see what it's like site-wide, and the only way to truly get community-wide feedback. This has been successful in that regard - users outside of this discussion began contributing ideas, many of which I ended up adopting.

::I apologize for stepping out of line a bit by forcing a consensus and implementing it site-wide. I feel that it was justified, though, because the discussion would likely have not progressed without it, and it was the only way to get more than half a dozen people to share their thoughts on it. Now, having said that...

::'''"What will you do now?"''' 
::The sidebar has undergone a two-week trial period, during which point it has received significant feedback from the community and has been modified in order to address the concerns that were brought up. There are only two loose ends left - renaming the "Official Add-ons" sub-menu under "Oblivion" (which is a discussion of site-wide concern), and resolving the last minor technical problems it has with [[UESPWiki:Javascript/Modify Sidebar|ModifySidebar]]. Note that most of the technical issues have been fixed - the only thing still affected are the collapsible menus, and that can be worked around by using <code>clear</code> and rebuilding the sidebar, as Daric Gaersmith has [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Daric_Gaersmith/monobook.js&oldid=1156644 done]. However, those are minor concerns.
{{Showhide/End}}
::What really needs to be done now is deciding whether or not we keep the sidebar. I got the site-wide trial period that I wanted, so I will keep quiet and accept whatever decision the community makes. If it decides against using it site-wide, then I'll make it into a user Gadget, and not bring up site-wide adoption again. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 07:06, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

:::In light of [[UESPWiki_talk:Namespaces#Namespace_guidelines|other discussions]] here about namespaces, I have changed my [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal#Daric.27s_Former_Viewpoint|former viewpoint]] that the consistency between the sidebar and the namespaces is paramount. I now don't see this as desirable at all, and that we should instead make the sidebar become completely independent of the underlying namespace infrastructure, and focus it entirely on making the site more navigable for our readers. There is no good reason, as others have pointed out, to reflect the underlying organizational decisions (that are only of interest to editors), and impose them on the average reader of the wiki through use of the sidebar.

:::Having gotten that off my chest, I'd also like to commend what Jak has done here. My decision to modify my own <code>monobook.js</code> is not meant in any way as a slight against Jak's sidebar modifications. In fact, I consulted with Jak about my changes, so that they might be used (as he has done above) as an example of what could be achieved if people really do not like the collapsible sidebar. I personally prefer the collapsible sidebar myself, but I do have reservations about the naming of the ''"Official Add-ons/Plugins"'' as Jak has mentioned above.

:::You may notice in my {{Pl|User:Daric_Gaersmith/monobook.js|monobook.js|oldid=1156644}} that I have a set of <code>ModifySidebar()</code> entries for a ''"gaer"'' group to be added to my own sidebar. This currently doesn't work, we cannot add our own groups to the sidebar yet, as far as I know. I've also copied this to the [http://dev.uesp.net/wiki/User:Daric/monobook.js developer website] in the hope that we can somehow get this part working. '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 09:54, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

::::I really like the new sidebar, even though some details bug me a little. First, the difference between collapsible and non-collapsible names isn't very obvious; the icons are the same color and just slightly different shape, it's doesn't scream "click me, I'm collapsible". Also, I guess we could make the game names a direct link instead, or would that cause too many people to accidentaly click the name instead of the arrow?
::::Second, while there is currently little in the way of small Add-ons for Skyrim, they do exist (does the texture pack even count?), and there is currently no direct link toward them. While the chances of having other small DLCs are thin, thanks to the evergrowing modding community, it's not impossible. Also, even though it's only my opinion, I think Hearthfire doesn't fit with DG and DB and would be better under an "Official DLCs" or whatever you want to call it.
::::Regarding that last point, I think we should keep consistency in the way we name Add-ons. If Bethesda wants to change their naming convention for each game, so be it, but do we really have to follow their example? Calling KotN or SI a "plug-in" is completely ridiculous, that kind of name only fits the 1 or 2 dollars Add-ons, and "DLC" only means that it's downloadable which, in Oblivion's case, is not always true. "Add-on" encompasses both smaller and bigger content, downloadable or not. I guess we could use "plug-in" when it comes to smaller ones, but we'd have to draw line regarding size and price. -- [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 11:07, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

:::::I'll leave the naming of the "extras" to the other discussions, but it would perhaps be better aesthetically to have them named the same on the sidebar. I agree that having the non-links the same color as the links on the sidebar is misleading, they should be different. On Hearthfire, it may be time to relegate it from the sidebar completely, Fall of the Space Core is the other official "thingie" so it would be the only one not there. There are plenty of other discussions about how to name them, so lets not start it here. While initially skeptical of what improvements could be made, I understood Jak's need for a site-wide test. I don't use that portion of the sidebar all that much, and when I do, it's usually just to get to the namespace quickly. Reducing the sidebar to a collapsible state allows us to push the older games back up into view. Also, with such small icons (the arrows), at least to me, its hard to distinguish them at a glance. Naming of sections seems to be an issue here, so perhaps we can split that off, and focus on whether we want the new style or not, I'm in favor of it. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:28, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

::::::I agree that the blue, link-colored labels are misleading, but ironically that's a good thing. Previously, the labels were black, and although it made it obvious that they were different, they were really, really ugly. By having them be link-colored, people will click on "Skyrim" thinking that it'll take them to Skyrim, but instead it expands the menu, making it instantly obvious what's going on. This actually tricks new users into learning how it works, while looking aesthetically pleasing at the same time. Having said that, though, if anyone has a suggestion for how to recolor it or otherwise make it obvious that it's a collapsible menu, you're free to suggest it. I could keep the labels link-colored and ''italicize'' them.
::::::As for Skyrim DLC, I decided during the last change that since there are only 3 DLC, it made more sense just to have them all under "Skyrim" instead of under "Official Add-ons". However, once we start seeing the fourth and fifth Skyrim DLC (nor however many there are), we can re-add an "Official Add-ons" menu and add Hearthfire, Fall of the Space Core, and the Hi-Res Texture Pack to that menu. I could add that menu sooner if people would want that. However, we really need to come up with a consistent naming scheme for the DLC before I do that, and that's a whole other discussion. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 21:45, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

== Dragonborn Peaks YT Video ==

Regarding the discussion on [[DB talk:Mortrag Peak]], it was suggested that, in order to facilitate the climbing of the four mountains on Solstheim, the inclusion of a YouTube video may be beneficial. Jeancey suggested starting a topic here to see what people think about having an exception to the YouTube video restriction for this purpose. It would also serve as a visual guide to the text directions, particularly in the cases where it is not clear what features are being referred to in the text. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 15:51, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

: It doesn't seem necessary to me. It's just platforming. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:12, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

::Platforming? Sorry, no idea what you mean, Legoless, unless you are referring to [[wikipedia:Platform_game|platform games]], which I never play anyway, as I'm into RPG games like TES, not "platformers". Just dismissing this as a gamer skill that RPG players aren't known for, is not helpful, sorry. I've been trying to follow Enodoc's directions, but I'm going to have to rely on the YouTube link that was provided on the Talk Page, because I just cannot work it out without a visual representation. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that visits the UESP for help with completing tasks such as this, who is a visual learner rather than textual. A picture is worth a thousand words, and a video is worth ten thousand. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 07:09, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

:::I'm going to chime in against using a youtube video here. If someone can't follow the text then the text needs changed, as has already happened after the original editor of the directions watched one video. The UESP is primarily a text based site, and one video has already been linked on the talk page for those who want one. A few visual aids wouldn't go amiss though, in the form of pictures, possibly one with the route marked on it (we already have those type of pictures linked from certain pages). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:06, 15 March 2013 (GMT)
::::Perhaps an aerial view of the route with the route marked on it? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:37, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::Is there really just one route? Whenever I climb mountains, I usually just improvise it. If you know the tricks, you can usually find your way up just by doing it. Maybe just a link to [[Skyrim:Mountain Climbing|Mountain Climbing]] would be sufficient. It feels like much more of an achievement if you find your own way up, and any kind of map or guide or video implies that there is only one valid route to the summit, which is generally not the case. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:45, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

::::::So, having just investigated this myself, I found my way to the top of Moesring Mountain 4 times, and Mortrag Peak twice, using very different routes. (Wasn't intentional - the hardest part is climbing to the top and then not going too far and falling to your death. Frykte Peak and Hvitkald Peak I made it to the top and back down safely on the first try.) I used [[Skyrim:Summon Arvak|Arvak]] each time. I don't think it's necessary to have a horse on any of the peaks, but I used him on all but Hvitkald. (The faster speed of the horse might explain why I kept overshooting and falling off. Might be safer on foot, though much slower.) Anyhow, I'm not sure if watching any video or looking at an aerial map would have made that easier. The only thing I can think of that'd help would be distant shots of each peak from several different angles, so you know ''which'' mountains to climb (many generic mountains look promising, and you can waste a lot of time climbing the wrong peaks, since you can't tell you're on the right one until you're almost at the top), and obviously an overhead map (just showing the locations of the markers, not the route(s)), which may have to wait until we get an interactive map of Solstheim. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 20:45, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} From what I understand of this discussion then, linking to someone else's video from a talk page, as Enodoc did, is okay, but we shouldn't have video content of our own on article pages. Is that the general consensus? If it is, I'm quite happy with that. I can't summon [[Skyrim:Summon Arvak|Arvak]], by the way, as I already have [[Skyrim:Followers#Two_Followers|two followers]]. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 23:35, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

:That wouldn't stop you. Arvak is a summoning spell, which is counted separately from your followers. I actually have THREE followers in addition to being able to summon Arvak (Serana, a normal follower, and the Steadfast Centurion Sphere). Arvak is limited by your summon cap - you can only have one, or two with the [[Skyrim:Twin Souls|Twin Souls]] perk. Now if you've got a Thrall of some sort following you around, that would count against Arvak. But 2 normal NPC followers (I assume one of them is Serana) and even a creature follower won't stop you. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 04:51, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

:: Interesting, and I know we're straying off topic now, but I have the Twin Souls perk and my Conjuration skill is leveled to 100% yet I can not summon anything, not even a simple [[Skyrim:Conjure_Familiar|Familiar]], while I have two normal followers, [[Skyrim:Serana|Serana]] and [[Skyrim:Borgakh_the_Steel_Heart|Borgakh]]. I tried saving first (for testing purposes), then I dismissed Borgakh, and all of a sudden I could summon again, including summoning [[Skyrim:Summon Arvak|Arvak]]. Feel free to move this discussion to a more appropriate place if you think it's necessary. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 09:12, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

== Morrowind Overhaul Project ==

So as many of you may know, I have been extremely interested in bring the morrowind namespace and those of its expansions up to par with the quality of the later games. To that end, I have drafted a Morrowind Overhaul Project (or MWOP) and I would like to get everyone's opinion on it. Have I missed anything (likely)? Did I make any mistakes? Is there anything else you think could, or should be added or changed? Thanks in advance guys. Just to note, the templates involved aren't done yet (I am going to start on them now), so if you have any ideas about that, feel free to let me know! Thanks! Here is a link to the project page in my sandbox! [[User:Jeancey/Ehnii]]. Thanks again! [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 17:50, 14 March 2013 (GMT)
:Just a bit more here, I have created three templates that will be placed on NPC, Place and Quest pages, respectively. If I could get your thoughts on those as well, that would be great. :) They currently have lots of red links because they aren't in the correct namespaces but eventually they will be named [[User:Jeancey/Gah|<nowiki>{{cleanup-mwop-npc}}</nowiki>]], [[User:Jeancey/Yaayin|<nowiki>{{cleanup-mwop-quest}}</nowiki>]] and [[User:Jeancey/Iih|<nowiki>{{cleanup-mwop-place}}</nowiki>]]. Thanks again! [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 18:50, 14 March 2013 (GMT)
::I like this! I would surely join it! - [[User:Chezburgar|Chez]] [[User talk:Chezburgar|talk]] • [[Special:EmailUser/Chezburgar|email]] 05:58, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Instead of making a whole new project, why not just resuscitate the already existing [[UESPWiki:Morrowind Redesign Project|Morrowind Redesign Project]]? I'll hand over the reins if you want - until I get a replacement for my lost MW discs, there's not much I can do to help out. But it seems that having two projects with essentially the same goals is just redundant. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:34, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

::::That would make sense, sure, but there's no harm in updating the guidelines too. I haven't looked at the MRP in a while, but I would guess that some of our standards have changed a bit since then, and I bet there are some things we do with Skyrim pages that would really spruce up the Morrowind namespace too. I haven't had a chance to really comb through your guidelines yet, Jeancey, but I'll hopefully get to that today :). ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 13:28, 15 March 2013 (GMT)
:::::The main issue with that is that it would seem that the guidelines for this project were, unfortunately, extremely small. The only thing I can see that was done was fill out infoboxes and basic blurbs, finish quests, and create maps for every area. In order to bring this project up to snuff, I would have to rewrite the ENTIRE thing, which is the exact same as starting a new project. All of the things covered under the MRP were completed, and the MWOP would address completely different things. The guidelines I have written might not even be complete yet, and they are still many times longer and more detailed than the old project. I looked into reviving the old project, and it would seem that reviving might actually be more work than creating a new one. Because they are so widely different, it doesn't seem to make sense to completely overwrite another project with new things, negating the old one, when it was clearly completed successfully in terms of its guidelines. A new project allows for new guidelines, without interfering with the old one. I may have repeated myself there a bit, but I definitely thing that Morrowind deserves a new project, not the retooling of an old one. MWOP is basically the ONPCRP, SQRP, and the OPRP rolled into one. There are three separate templates, three whole sections of work that can be done. There just isn't any overlap with the old one, at all. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 14:20, 15 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}} I have launched the project. If anyone has any comments on the project guidelines, questions, concerns, etc. please direct them either to the project talk page or my talk page. :) [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 21:33, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

== Voice Types ==

Okay, the long-delayed [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal/Archive_35#NPC_Voice_Types|NPC Voice Types]] project is off to the races. It's currently running at a much higher rate of speed than previously due to a discussion Jak had with Dave some time back where they agreed that our bots didn't really need to follow Wikipedia's standards. As usual, please let me know if the bot's screwing anything up (very quickly) or if the new-found speed appears to be creating a lag. Due to the large volume, I won't be monitoring it closely, so post to the bot's talk page if you need to make it stop.

Also note that due to my current database setup, I have to do each mod separately, so you will actually see several bot runs before it's done. Skyrim will be tonight's; I'll do the others over the next day or two. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:34, 20 March 2013 (GMT)

:Before anybody bugs me about it, yes, I am aware of {{Pl|Skyrim:Unused NPCs|action=history|this little oversight}}. The bot actually handles multiple edits to the same page correctly...except I forgot to account for section links from redirects. I'll fix it for the various mod runs, though they're less likely to run into the problem in any event. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:44, 20 March 2013 (GMT)

::Should we list the names of the actors when known? I know I added a few to [[Skyrim:Voice Actors|Voice Actors]] earlier, because I actually met her at a convention, and she had some of them listed on a poster. (And apparently she did [[:Category:Skyrim-Voice-FemaleCommoner|a lot more]] than the ones she listed.) I'm not sure if we know which actors go with which voice types in all cases, but for the ones we do, we should make that info available somewhere. Either add a link to the category on the Voice Actors page, or add a link to the row in the Voice Actors page to the category pages, or both maybe. Not sure if we should mention it in the NPC articles themselves, though I think we do for some of the major characters. (Mostly only those with unique voices not used by any other NPCs.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:40, 20 March 2013 (GMT)
:::If you mean add the name of the voice actor to the NPC pages, that would be silly. We only do that for unique voices (as in used for one NPC). The voice type names as they're added to the NPC pages can be added to the Voice Actor page if it hasn't been done already ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 16:50, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

:::No, not on each and every NPC page, but maybe the category ones? A note, like "NPCs with the MaleNordCommander voice type are voiced by Paul Ganus" or something along those lines. [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 17:12, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

== Wiki_Fi ==

Hey there. I've been working on a [http://stats.wiki.tf little side project] that I thought you guys might be interested in. It was originally intended for the Team Fortress and Portal Wiki but I've extended it to more wikis since. I wanted to know if you guys were interested in getting included :) It requires no work on your part at all, just your blessing to collate the information from the wiki API for display. What do you think? [[User:Moussekateer|Moussekateer]] ([[User talk:Moussekateer|talk]]) 19:33, 20 March 2013 (GMT)
:Sounds alright to me, how about everyone else? '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 21:59, 21 March 2013 (GMT)
::I like graphs... --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 04:08, 22 March 2013 (GMT)

== Image Category Needed ==

Hey guys. Silencer reminded me that I had an abandoned project sitting in one of HnB's sandboxes to clean up our [[:Category:User Images|User Images]] file names. That's all done now, with one file remaining that's proposed for deletion and one that I just have no clue what to do with. [[:File:SR-place-Dawnstar Sanctuary Fivetenets.jpg|Fivetenets.jpg]] started out as a User image, but now it's used on [[Lore:Dark Brotherhood]] as well. I don't know our image categories very well, nor am I even 100% sure if that comes from Skyrim or one of the other games. Can someone savvy have a peek at it and figure out what to do with it to get it out of User Images? Thanks! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 06:17, 23 March 2013 (GMT)
:It looks like a slightly altered version of [[:File:SR-place-Dawnstar_Sanctuary_Tenets.jpg]]. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 06:44, 23 March 2013 (GMT)
::I'm wondering if it might be a direct export of the texture file. That would account for its clean appearance. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 07:46, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

== Gemstone Geodes ==
I've begun a discussion [[Skyrim_talk:Geode_Vein|here]] about whether the redirect from [[Skyrim:Geode_Vein]] to [[Skyrim:Blackreach]] should now be severed, being that [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] has introduced another type of Geode Vein now. As the page itself is currently redirected, I'm concerned that people won't be able to see the discussion either, that's why I have posted a link to it here. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 12:37, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

:I also brought this up [[Skyrim_talk:Mining#Dragonborn_Ore_Veins_and_jem_geodes|here]], but nobody replied at all. I think it's just because of the work that'd be required to document the locations of all gem geodes. (Geode Veins are easier, since they're pretty much all in one location.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 13:52, 23 March 2013 (GMT)
:: Thanks TRL. Looks like a job for a [[User:Daric_Gaersmith#gaer|Gaersmith]] then. I'm on it. I've made a start, collecting web resources into my [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/Sandbox/Or|Sandbox 'Or']]. The content for the [[Skyrim:Geode Vein|Geode Vein]] page itself will be built, from the gathered resources, in my [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/Sandbox/Un|Sandbox 'Un']]. Both my Sandboxes [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/Sandbox/Or|'Or']] and [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/Sandbox/Un|'Un']] are open to collaboration for anyone who wants to help out. This will be my first major page building exercise in article space, so I'd like as much input and feedback as possible. I'll be following the style of [[Skyrim:Mining]] for this page, as it seems to be the closest match. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 23:54, 23 March 2013 (GMT)
:::I was chatting with [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] last night in IRC about this, and he raised an objection to having both main game and DLC content on the same page. I just thought I better get that clarified before I go any further with this, as my intention is to keep information about the [[SR:Soul_Gems|Soul Gem]] Geodes of [[SR:Blackreach|Blackreach]] and the Gemstone Geodes of [[DB:Solstheim|Solstheim]] together on the [[SR:Geode Vein|Geode Vein]] page. Comments anyone? – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 21:17, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

::::I do not think they should be put together. I dont really understand what 'Geode' means (Im sure what [http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/pokemon-blue-version/e/e1/Geodude.gif im thinking of] is wrong! o.o) but other than the word 'Geode' they have nothing in common. Adding a section on the [[Skyrim:Blackreach|Blackreach]] page should be fine. I do think [[DB:Amethyst Geode|Amethyst Geode]], [[DB:Emerald Geode|Emerald Geode]], [[DB:Ruby Geode|Ruby Geode]] and [[DB:Sapphire Geode|Sapphire Geode]] could all be made into a redirect to keep them together on one page. Maybe call the page [[DB:Mining|Mining]]? Then it could include [[DB:Stalhrim|Stalhrim]] and [[DB:Heart Stone|Heart Stones]] aswell. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 21:40, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::I'm not in favor of separating everything, I think a "DB" next to the name is enough to distinguish all the creatures/items/places/etc... But I guess we could make as Kimi said, a Dragonborn mining page with redirects and description of the "new" geode veins and keep the Blackreach ones on a separate page. Now should we make an entire page, or put them with [[Skyrim:Blackreach|Blackreach]] or [[Skyrim:Soul Gems|soul gems]]? [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 22:00, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::: Even if they was in the same namespace I would have said to seperate them because they have nothing in common. For the soul gem ones I doubt there is enough to write about them to have their own page. Redirecting to [[Skyrim:Blackreach|Blackreach]] or [[Skyrim:Soul Gems|Soul Gems]] and having the information there should be fine. I would probably go with Blackreach as thats the only location and they give more than just soul gems. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 22:07, 24 March 2013 (GMT)

::::::: I'd agree - grouping Geode Veins with Gem Geodes is loony. They have nothing in common. It'd be like "Red Mountain Flower" on the same page with "Redwater Den" because they both have the word "Red" in the name. Now if we were putting ALL mineable items on one page, that would make some sense (though it might be a tad long). But there's no particular reason to group Blackreach Geode Veins with Gem Geodes other than that. (For the record, a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geode geode] is usually a hollow rock with a crystal formation inside.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 01:54, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

::::::::Some good news. I've found all the Gem Geodes in the wildness :) The [[Dragonborn:Mining|page]] has been updated. Shall we remove the incomplete templete now? [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 08:36, 29 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}Thanks everyone, great feedback (well, apart from Kimi's "geodude", that is, hehe). As TRL said, a geode is a place where crystals form inside a rock. We mine metal ores (iron, corundum, etc) and soul gems in the game the same way as we now mine gemstones, stalhrim, and heartstones. All it takes is a pickaxe (or, in the case of stalhrim, an ancient nordic pickaxe). The Soul Gem geode veins of Blackreach have more in common with the new Gemstone Geodes, than they do with any other place where you can "swing a pickaxe". They both encompass the concept, as TRL mentioned, of yielding crystals rather than ores. For the sake of argument, Stalhrim is neither an "ore" nor a "geode", as it is enchanted ice, whereas heartstones, well, I'm not even going to go there!

If it is agreed that these should all go together on the [[Skyrim:Mining]] page, I'm happy with that. If a new [[Dragonborn:Mining]] page needs to be created for gemstone geodes, stalhrim, and heartstones, that's fine too. But I'm surprised that no-one else here can see the similarity between the Blackreach geodes and the new genstone geodes. It is not just a shared common word, as TRL implies above, it is a scientific concept, as TRL linked to above. – [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']]↝[[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|'''talk''']] 03:21, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

:I was reading what you wrote in [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/Sandbox/Un|This Sandbox]], but I feel that is way to complicated. I have no idea what I just read, and im not sure its really relevant to the game... I think it would be better to focus more on where you can mine, what you get from mining and what you can do with it. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 07:02, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

:: Most of the description reads as complete speculation, an issue which I've brought up [[User talk:Daric Gaersmith/Sandbox/Un|here]]. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 15:56, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Yeah, you can't use real-world science to try and come up with explanations for things in a game. So much of ES follows its own rules that trying to think like a real-world geologist is just silly. Rubies appear next to Emeralds because that's where the developers put them. Unless there's' an in-game source corroborating any of that info, it's just guesswork, which doesn't fit on this site. As for the similarities between Geode Veins and gem geodes, again, the only thing really in common between these is that they have the word "geode" in them and produce items that are crystalline in nature. But in terms of gameplay, the gem geodes have far more in common with standard ore veins than with Geode Veins, because gems can be used for crafting items, while soul gems cannot. (Enchanting being a completely different process from Smithing.) Plus, you can also randomly find the same gems by mining most regular ore veins, but not from Geode Veins. Whether an object is crystalline in nature or not is basically irrelevant to the player. Moon Sugar is technically a crystal, as are Fire/Frost/Void Salt and Salt Piles. But we don't treat those any differently from other ingredients. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:12, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

::::Okay, I surrender. I'll just stick to fan-fiction writing from now on. '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 01:24, 26 March 2013 (GMT)

== Social Media Pages & Content ==

Hello everyone - your favorite s'wit is back. (Or least favorite; I won't judge.) I've been helping Dave with the site's new social media pages and wanted to see if anyone wanted to contribute anything. I've been doing a "Screenshot of the Week" category that would be easy for anyone who likes to take screenshots (in any game) but isn't necessarily interested in having them be Featured Images (or who has a beloved screenshot that didn't make it as a Featured Image). If you could send them my way it'd be most appreciated.

Alternatively, and as well, you're welcome to use it as an outlet to share things. We already share featured articles and images from the wiki; if you ever wanted to go into blog updates or anything of that sort, it's an option. Maybe even sharing random "Did you knows" with links to articles would be entertaining. In any case, just wanted to put that out there and remind everyone that it's something open to the community and sharing all of the great content on UESP, wherever it is. Feel free to e-mail me or swing by my talk page for any ideas, suggestions, or what not. Thanks for all the hard work! --[[User:Avron the S'wit|Avron the S'wit]] ([[User talk:Avron the S'wit|talk]]) 17:33, 29 March 2013 (GMT)
:I have several ideas, mainly for a Q&A place for everything Elder Scrolls. no idea how to get people to ask us questions though :P I'll talk to you about it more later, I'm in class right now :P [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 18:26, 29 March 2013 (GMT)
::In my experience it's harder to get content than to provide it (point of proof just being this CP section here). It's easier to simply provide things that reflect UESP as a community, I should think. --[[User:Avron the S'wit|Avron the S'wit]] ([[User talk:Avron the S'wit|talk]]) 13:32, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

== Dawnguard vs Dragonborn ==

I'm sure it's been discussed before and it was all looking right back then, but I think we all know now that the current situation is all wrong. I've been holding off on bringing this up because it's not going to be an easy matter, but I'm just gonna go ahead and get this off my chest. To put it clear and simple: officially, Dawnguard and Dragonborn are of equal status and importance as DLC. As of now though, Dragonborn has its own namespace while Dawnguard doesn't, and that is just wrong.

There are two ways to fix this:
*Remove Dragonborn's namespace and intergrate it like Dawnguard is integrated.
*Give Dawnguard its own namespace.

I would say the second course is the good course. That's pretty much all that needs to be said. ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 22:37, 29 March 2013 (GMT)

: Aren't namespaces used for ease of organisation? Dragonborn needs the split, whereas Dawnguard is far better off being integrated. I don't see the need to change. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:50, 29 March 2013 (GMT)

::Ignoring the contestable point of them being equal, that still ignores the fact that the content that Dawnguard adds neatly works with Skyrim as it is. Dragonborn is almost entirely split off and it makes more sense to keep Skyrim and Dragonborn at arm's length to another. There really isn't any benefit in not having Dragonborn split off, while Dawnguard's content is a better fit with the content that it actually changes. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 23:04, 29 March 2013 (GMT)

:::I know this has been discussed at length previously, as Dwarfmp said, both here and in IRC, but there are still voices that need to be heard, I believe. The "silent majority" of people who consult the UESP but aren't "Editors" should have a say on this, I reckon. Let's put up a poll on the front page of the wiki, and gather some feedback. '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 23:23, 29 March 2013 (GMT)
::::Is the average site user going to notice or care which add-ons have their own namespace? As long as they can click on the appropriate links to get the info they want, I don't think that where we arbitrarily differentiate between minor and major add-ons, and hence which ones get their own namespace, affects the average site visitor at all. If I am correct in this assessment, then the debate about which add-ons to split off into their own namespace and which ones to incorporate into Skyrim becomes just a matter of ease of integration, with a bit of personal preference thrown in.

::::Can someone please explain to me, and by extension anybody else who doesn't understand this, why ALL Skyrim content, including add-ons, can't just be included in the Skyrim namespace? Is there some aspect of this that I'm not aware of? It seems like this has become a serious point of contention, so I would like to understand why separate namespaces for large expansions/add-ons/whatever are necessary. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 23:38, 29 March 2013 (GMT)
:::::So far, we have been incredibly consistent in how we make our namespaces. Main games get their own. Any DLC that adds significant landmass where 90+% of the content in that DLC takes place also get their own namespaces. Bam. Done. Already consistent. This definition works for every single DLC that has been released, for every game. Bloodmoon, new landmass, All quests take place there. Same with Tribunal, same with Shivering. KotN, the content is spread across all of Cyrodiil, not in a single new landmass, thus, no namespace. Dawnguard, content is spread across all of skyrim, not in a single new landmass, thus, no namespace. Dragonborn, new landmass, majority (except one or two) quests take place on the new landmass, thus, it gets its own namespace.
:::::I don't understand why people can't seem to see the difference between Dawnguard and Dragonborn, and the similarities between them and KotN and Shivering. It is very clear to me why the namespaces exist, and why they are split the way they are. I just don't see any logical reason why they should be different.... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 23:51, 29 March 2013 (GMT)

::::::I don't think it's about consistency. Would anyone really make the difference if Tribunal and Bloodmoon were merged with Morrowind? It's the same thing here. Yes, there is a lot of new stuff added by Dragonborn and it's obviously different from Dawnguard. But claiming "we did this before, let's do it again" won't convince many people. Anyway, this is the Easter Egg debate all over again, it won't change anything. [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 23:56, 29 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}}{{ec}}Jeancey, the status quo does not have to remain so, if there is a significant body of the community who disagree with it. According to the [[UESPWiki:Consensus#When_Consensus_is_Needed|Consensus]] guidelines, ''"any issue can be reopened for discussion, even if a consensus was previously reached, if an editor feels that there is a need"''. That [[UESPWiki:Consensus#Reaching_Consensus|same page]] also suggests avoiding (wherever possible) turning a discussion into a vote, but ''"some decisions based purely on stylistic preference may not be amenable to a compromise solution"''. This issue of DLC priority is about ''"stylistic preference"'', and in my view a vote should be taken. '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 00:03, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

:+1 for no need to revisit this. I think the distinction between plug-ins and expansions, as discussed during the creation of the DB namespace, is a sound working practice. Dawnguard is effectively a plug-in which significantly altered the vanilla game world, while Dragonborn expanded upon the game world. I don't see anything inconsistent in our treatment of DLC under this analysis. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 00:07, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::{{ec}}The difference is, the namespaces are there for ease of finding things. Giving EVERYTHING its own namespace creates ridiculous amounts of namespaces and isn't useful, just as giving nothing its own namespace puts so much stuff in the main namespace that it because cluttered (not an entirely accurate analogy, but you get my point). Let me ask you this. If I ask, where is [[Skyrim:Arkngthamz|Arkngthamz]] located? You can accurate describe that by saying it is located in skyrim. If I ask, where is [[Dragonborn:Raven Rock|Raven Rock]] located? You cannot accurately describe that as being in skyrim, because it isn't. All but 1 of the locations added by Dragonborn are not IN skyrim, thus it is justifiable to create its own namespace, since all of its content occurs in a specific area unique to Dragonborn. With Bloodmoon and tribunal, they occur at a location that cannot be described as Vvardenfell, which is where the rest of the game takes place, just as shivering takes place away from Cyrodiil. It just doesn't make sense to put them all in the main namespaces, when they occur in completely different locals. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 00:08, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:::Daric: Also, I thought this WAS revisiting it... We are giving our opinions. I am trying to explain why the way that it is works, and works well. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 00:09, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::::{{ec}}Isn't that why we have disambiguation pages? Or the Lore section of the wiki? '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 00:13, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean? This has nothing to do with disambiguation. It is about organization. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 00:16, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

::::::There is no "silent majority". We get complaints all of the time over the smallest details. If users actually didn't like our way of organizing with the namespaces, we'd of heard about it much more frequently than we do. As for the suggestion of a public poll, I just have to disagree with that. There is no necessity to call attention from all visitors to this non-consequential thing. We don't ask for global input when it comes to sorting our categories or building templates for navigation, why would we treat namespaces differently? The average user isn't affected by our namespaces, at all. In fact, this has never been more true since our search engine automatically adds on namespaces to searches now. So, from the standpoint of the average user to the site, they have no reason to care. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 00:17, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} For me, one of the biggest reasons to use different namespaces for some DLC is the amount of overlap in terms of content. Hearthfire, for example, would be ridiculous to have as a separate namespace because it adds very little in terms of quests, places, creatures, etc. Dragonborn, on the other hand, adds a ''ton'' of new quests, places, creatures, etc., most of which are unique to Solstheim and don't appear in Skyrim at all. If we put all of the DLC info onto the Skyrim versions of those pages, the result would be overwhelming, to the point of detracting from the site for those who don't have the relevant DLC. If we create separate pages for them, as we have for Dawnguard, how it that different from creating a namespace, really?

Dawnguard lies somewhere between Hearthfire and Dragonborn in terms of what it adds to the game, so for me, it's hard to say if creating a namespace or separate pages in Skyrim space would be better. The way we've structured [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|the main Dawnguard page]] looks suspiciously similar to how we've structured [[Skyrim:Skyrim|the main Skyrim page]] and [[Dragonborn:Dragonborn|the main Dragonborn page]], and it's very noticeable that we've had to use page names like [[Skyrim:Dawnguard Quests|'''Dawnguard''' Quests]], [[Skyrim:Dawnguard Creatures|'''Dawnguard''' Creatures]], [[Skyrim:Dawnguard Items|'''Dawnguard''' Items]], etc. just to disambiguate them which, as I said earlier, is effectively the same as creating a namespace for it anyway. That would argue for putting Dawnguard in its own real namespace. On the other hand, while Dawnguard adds quite a bit in these areas, it's not comparable to Dragonborn. It really only adds a couple of quest lines, and some relatively small areas, when you get right down to it, which is an argument against creating a whole new namespace.

In the end, I'm neither for nor against the change from an organizational perspective, though from the perspective of changing everything over, it's likely to be a fair bit of work. HnB could probably do most of it if we go that route, but there's probably still going to be a lot of things that'll need human attention and decision-making as well. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 00:37, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:The view that "landmass" and "location on the map" should determine whether or not a DLC gets its own namespace or not seems very arbitrary to me. For instance, the full game [[OB:Oblivion|Oblivion]] was located both in [[Lore:Cyrodiil|Cyrodiil]] and in [[Lore:Oblivion|Oblivion]], but we don't separate the game into separate namespaces just because of where the game takes place, so why should we do so for the DLC/add-ons/plugins, whatever you want to call them? '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 00:45, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

::I'm having trouble seeing that argument as anything but grasping at straws. The difference is that in Oblivion, Cyrodiil and Oblivion were a package deal. You got both by buying the game. That is not true with the DLC and expansions, which are notably '''separate''' from the original game. It's not that it takes place in a separate place, or that it's large in size. It's that it takes place in a separate location while being a large expansion to original content. This has already been explained, and surely you could understand the difference between Dagon's Plane of Oblivion and Cyrodiil being in the same namespace (they came in the same package), and the separation with the Shivering Isles.

::There are always going to be arbitrary lines drawn when it comes to organization. That's a fact that must be accepted. By turning Dawnguard into a namespace, you're just making another arbitrary line with an even less solid explanation for it. Because now, why wouldn't we give Hearthfire its own namespace? Or what about the tiny additions to Morrowind? By arguing for the inclusion of Dawnguard, you are just creating a more obvious dissonance over what does and doesn't get a namespace. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 01:10, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

:::For those thinking about a poll or questioning the merits of our namespace system: it occurred to me that [[UESPWiki:Survey Results|the site survey]] had a lot to say on the matter and didn't happen all that long ago. Peruse it if you haven't already. As I said on that talk page, I think most problems understanding the site structure could be solved with a short and sweet explanation on the Main Page. Since a lot of people requested some changes to the Main Page, we could kill two birds with one stone. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 01:17, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

:::: I wouldn't actually mind having Dragonborn integrated into the Skyrim namespace, but splitting Dawnguard seems like a really bad idea. Look at what it does to [[Skyrim:Vampire]]. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 01:24, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::{{ec|3}} Daric, of course it's arbitrary. Why? Because we have to make that decision ourselves. If we went by another suggested criteria of following what Bethesda calls an expansion, then we'd have a separate namespace for [[mw:Bitter Coast Sounds|Bitter Coast Sounds]]. We don't just differentiate it based on whether or not it's a separate landmass. We separate it based on three things: size, how much of an impact it has on the base game, and how well it stands independently. These are fairly logical criteria. If all the mod does is add a handful of items to the base game, then it would best be integrated with the main gamespace. If, however, it adds a huge number of items, many quests, a large landmass, a whole slew of things that aren't connected to the main "Skyrim" at all, then it gets it's own namespace. This is for organizational reasons, primarily for the reader's benefit. If we separate ''everything'' into namespaces, then everything will be disconnected from each other. It's a bad thing to have one namespace with 99% of its links to another namespace - it completely defeats the purpose of them. Dawnguard is a good example. It adds significantly to leveled lists throughout the game, from [[Skyrim:Skeleton|skeletons]] to [[Skyrim:Dragon|dragons]]. Listing this information in separate articles would be silly, because the new info is only relevant to the old info, and duplicating 10,000+ word articles just for the sake of having a different namespace is stupid.
:::::I will post what I said when we [[UESPWiki:Community Portal/Archive 32#Edit Break: Dawnguard|last discussed]] this:
::::::''As more of a general observation, Shivering Isles deserved it's own namespace because it had both a huge new landscape as well items that were completely independent of the main world items, including Amber and Madness Ore armor just to name a few. The locations and items that the add-on Dawnguard adds are just that, add-ons. With the exception of the Soul Cairn, all new locations are just integrated into the mainland. Castle Volkihar is due north of [[sr:Northwatch Keep|Northwatch Keep]] and due west of [[sr:Solitude|Solitude]], but it's still easily within the bounds of the world. Castle Dawnguard is the same. Places like [[sr:Dimhollow Cavern|Dimhollow Cavern]], [[sr:Forebears' Holdout|Forebears' Holdout]], and [[sr:Redwater Den|Redwater Den]] are all on the mainland. The two new dragon types, Revered and Legendary, are integrated into the existing leveled list for dragons. Dragonbone weapons are also integrated into the existing lists. Fletching is hardly a standalone skill - it's integrated into the existing Smithing options. Just about everything that's added with Dawnguard is added into the vanilla game, similar to [[ob:Knights of the Nine|Knights of the Nine]], rather than acting as a standalone expansion, like [[si:Shivering Isles|Shivering Isles]]. If I may be so candid, there's a reason that the 1.6 update changed it from "Loading Downloadable Content" to "Loading Add-Ons".''
:::::Having reached the end of Dawnguard, I haven't changed my conclusion. Dragonborn, however, is very much like the Shivering Isles. It has a large, self-contained landmass, with dozens of new NPCs and quests, hundreds of new items, new skills and abilities, and with the exception of a single small link, is completely separate from the mainland. You can spent tens of hours exploring Solstheim without setting foot in Skyrim. You can completely forgo Skyrim equipment and arm yourself with DB-specific equipment. You can spend in-game months just doing quests in Dragonborn. When it comes down to it, Dragonborn is like the Shivering Isles, and Dawnguard is just a big Knight of the Nine.
:::::Dragonborn truly is a self-contained experience, and it should be a self-contained reading experience as well. Dragonborn has its own namespace, and Dawnguard doesn't. That's the way it should remain. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 01:50, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
=== Dawnguard vs Dragonborn - Edit Break 1 ===
Legoless: Your comment ''"Look at what it does to [[Skyrim:Vampire]]"'' was already addressed by my comment above, about disambiguation pages. I just happened to have preempted your argument, and my answer was therefore read out of context. I am, after all, in the GMT+12 timezone, I come from the future. Hehe.

As for the site survey that took place back in November 2012, how many new users, myself included, didn't even know that this was happening back then? I only registered an account on UESP in December 2012. Prior to that I was part of the "silent majority" of people who consult the UESP without having a registered account as an editor, and believe me, I always thought the namespace conventions here were weird, long before I registered as an Editor. '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 03:00, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

:Disambiguation pages are for two different things with the same name. Splitting up leveled lists and repeating data would be a mess. The vampire page would be split, with the same data but different races on different pages, and the notes about DG changes to vampire data would be a pain to figure out, as DG alters the vanilla vampire. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 03:36, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::Why is it that everyone seems to think expansions are based upon landmass? Dawnguard's size is very comparable to that of Dragonborn's, the difference is negligible. You're telling me if Hearthfire had houses built on a new small island, it would get a namespace of its own? Come on people, this is a ridiculous argument. I haven't been there myself, but I hear the Soulcairn is really big, similarly adding a huge amount of new landmass. If the addition is small, you don't have to create a new page, you can just link to the original Skyrim page if it's really few new content. Both DLC add an equal amount of content, and as RobinHood70 said, they all pretty much have their own page already ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 13:05, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

::: Dwarfmp: It isn't about landmasses, it's about the separation. Returning to the example of [[Skyrim:Vampire]]: Dawnguard heavily modifies the vanilla vampires, and trying to move that information to a separate page would be stupid. It makes similar changes to Falmer enemy lists and dungeons. [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy]] would also require an inane split due to the information of the perks. Dawnguard is far too integrated into the base game to make a split possible. With Dragonborn, this isn't the case at all. You can count the changes it makes to the base world on one hand: a boat, cultists, the Ebony Warrior, a new armour type, and a remote landmark. It's just not practical to split Dawnguard or Hearthfire.

::: Daric: What do disambiguation pages have to do with it? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 13:19, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::::Why would it be stupid? If I didn't have Dawnguard and wasn't planning to get it, I wouldn't want its data mucking up the Vampire page ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 13:28, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

::::: Eshe did a nice job of clearly distinguishing Dawnguard data from vanilla data. Take a look at the tables. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 13:40, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

{{od}}I actually voted for a Dawnguard namespace in the CP discussion about it, but I think the biggest determining factor is how separate the data is. Dawnguard makes vast changes to Skyrim, it's enemies, dialogue, and places its content alongside and with the vanilla game. Dragonborn on the other hand places 99% of its content on Solstheim, ''away'' from Skyrim. It does make changes to leveled lists and such, but only to add its new enemy types to the existing ones, and to prevent some of them happening on Solstheim. In short Dawnguard changes Skyrim (and adds to it of course), while Dragonborn only adds to Skyrim. 
If we compare them to Oblivion, Dawnguard is extremely similar in what it does to the Knights of the Nine, while Dragonborn is very similar to Shivering Isles. If any changes '''have''' to be made, I would far rather Dragonborn was moved to the Skyrim namespace that Dawnguard was extracted, of course, at this point I'm against either move. What is really needed are some guidelines on what DLCs/Add-ons/Expansions we would consider making a namespace. To me it starts with content, it has to add a significant amount of data to qualify, then it should be separation (i.e. does it make vast changes to the game, or just add to it), thirdly, it should add significant landmass where the vast majority of the content takes place. Dawnguard fails on the last two to me. It does add significant landmass, in the Soul Cairn and the Forbidden Legend, but the majority of its quests take place in Skyrim (and Skyrim locations altered by Dawnguard). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 15:05, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:The fact that one DLC deserves a namespace over another is incredibly biased, and I can't contribute to a wiki that's biased on its structure alone already. Disregarding facts because it's easier to do so is not what I want to stand for ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 16:47, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

::Namespaces, as I see them, are entirely for ease, and I think that is their underlying purpose. I think the relevance to disambiguation mentioned by Daric, or at least, how I see it, is that namespaces are just disambiguation at the highest level. The issue we have here comes when such disambiguation is unecessary, and the system potentially causes more harm than good. The system we currently seem to use, as described above, is based on the ''integration/separation'' of the content of an add-on, and, by extension, the integration/separation of our information, and not whether the ''amount'' of content is comparable. I think this is the bias Dwarfmp is referring to (please correct me if I'm wrong).
::For consistency, since DG and DB seem to be considered equal by Bethesda (they are referred to as DLC1 and DLC2 in the files, whereas HF is called BYoH), perhaps we should also consider them equal. The integration issue is, however, the biggest issue I see with this. The DG:Vampire page and the SR:Vampire page would obviously explain only that which is relevant to each, but DG info without the SR base info may not make sense, since some of the DG stuff requires the SR stuff. Equally, extra creature variants (dragons, chaurus, falmer, etc) added by DG would not make sense without their SR base. How easily could the SR base info be transcluded into DG articles? Particularly considering the [[Skyrim:Monsters|extended lists]], separation and transclusion into a new namespace could become difficult. Continuing on the lines of integration, what would we do with place articles ([[SR:Hall of the Vigilant]], [[SR:Ruins of Bthalft]], [[SR:Arcwind Point]]) that are only minorly changed by DG, but still changed all the same? Most of the rest are probably viably separable or directly moveable, either by pulling out the DG stuff or by virtue of the [[SR:Dawnguard Places|Dawnguard:Places]]-style naming that we use already.
::This is how I see it working if we decide to give DG its own namespace. Whether we actually need to or not, I am generally indifferent. For consistency and equality, I think we should; but for integration and separation, I think we shouldn't. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:56, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

:::All I'm saying is that by giving Dragonborn a namespace and not Dawnguard, it's as if we admit that Dragonborn is in fact "bigger and better" or "more of an expansion" than Dawnguard. To my understanding, KOTN doesn't have a namespace because it was a big "plug-in" (I'm not even sure what to call these things anymore) but in all rights still not considered an expansion as Shivering Isles was, it was the mother of all smaller "plug-ins". I'm not saying we HAVE to separate the Dawnguard data from the vampire page, links to the page and keeping the DG data there may just work as well. Of course people are going to tell me "but then we separate DG data from other DG data, so what's the use of a namespace". It's just the idea behind it, that one DLC is an expansion and another is not, they are equal in their own rights ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 19:12, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::::If I recall correctly, Shivering is also referred to the in the game data as a plug-in. All of the DLC for Oblivion was. It is the EXACT same situation with KotN and Shivering as it is with DG and DB. DB *is* bigger and more of an expansion than DG is. It has more quests, more area to explore, and a more coherent story. The reason that they refer to them differently from HF is that HF was made pretty much in its entirety by three devs with some time on their hands as a fun thing to do. Beth liked it so much, they spruced it up and released it, but it was the brainchild of some devs in their spare time, as opposed to the DG and DB, which were planned out. DB is bigger in every aspect, thus, it gets its own namespace. I don't understand why some of you don't think it is bigger than DG, because it very clearly is... [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 20:41, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

:::::This has nothing to do with us thinking one is more of an expansion than the other. It's about how easy it is to document. We clearly state they are both expansions or whatever you want to call them. We're not treating Dawnguard's content differently for any reason but because it is easier to document its pages when they're in the same namespace as Skyrim. Dawnguard's content is entirely tied up with the rest of Skyrim. Dragonborn, on the other hand, has a tenuous connection to the rest of the content in the Skyrim namespace. The same is true for the rest of our expansions with namespaces. SI barely changes anything existing in Cyrodiil (Sheogorath's shrine quest and adds a single island), Tribunal adds somewhere around three new NPCs to Vvardenfell, and Bloodmoon adds a boat and an annoying topic that plagues all of the inhabitants of the island. So all of those expansions do very little with the rest of the game's existing content, and it would clutter up our existing articles about games by adding a bunch of content that is barely relevant to everything else on the article.

:::::Honestly, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal. Namespaces literally only exist for organizational purposes. It is easier to organize our content if some of it is split off from the rest. That's the defining idea behind it. It's why we don't group together different games under the same namespace. Splitting them up for individual games is just an extension of that idea. If it improves navigation if we split up the games, surely it helps if the game's content is split up where it can be? So the real questions are, is information related to Skyrim easier to find if we keep Dragonborn split off or if we split off Dawnguard's content? The answers to me are yes and no, respectively. Dragonborn is easily split off, while with Dawnguard every other link or article will go back to the Skyrim namespace. While Dragonborn is currently fine, Dawnguard's split off from Skyrim would make navigation a nightmare for those trying to read up on Dawnguard. We'll either have a ton of redundant articles, or articles that are arbitrarily in one namespace or the other. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 20:56, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::::::SI was implemented in the Oblivion.esm file, while the plug-ins were esp files completely on their own. When I see one DLC has a namespace and another has not, I'm going to draw the conclusion one DLC is bigger over another. Bethesda distributes them as equal, as they are both priced equally. Where are you going to draw the line? What requirements must DLC have to be more than just a "plug-in"? ''Shivering Isles is the first and only major expansion for Oblivion.'', note how that is the first line on the SI main page. SI is not put on the plug-ins page, while KOTN is. Are you going to change the Dawnguard page claiming it's some sort of "lesser" DLC like Hearthfire? Pretty much tells readers they should buy Dragonborn over Dawnguard because you'll get more out of Dragonborn for the same amount of money. When I look up to purchase KOTN and SI from the official site, I see that SI is no less than 3 times worth more than KOTN.
::::::AKB, you say that namespace is only used to make things easier for us, and doesn't make a difference in meaning at all. But that's not the impression I get. The infoboxes are different, the whole main page is handled differently. As a reader, the site tells me one is better than the other. I get why it's been implemented differently, but it still feels very biased to me, and maybe many more people ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 21:11, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:::::::Dwarf, we have stated the requirements. I think that silencer stated them fairly well. It adds significant new content, Significant new land mass, and the vast majority of that new content takes place on the new landmass, not in the landmass of the base game. Every single DLC currently follows this guideline. Those are the requirements. You seem to think there are two types of DLC, big ones and small ones. This isn't the case at all. There are many types of DLC, some are large, some are small, and some are somewhere inbetween. DB is nearly 40% larger than DG, its a simple fact. DB and DG both add significant content to the game, but DB also adds significant landmass, and the new content appears almost entirely on that landmass, whereas DG's content is spread around the existing skyrim landmass. Those ARE the requirements we currently use. Simple as that. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 21:20, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}}Nowhere is it stated what the "requirements" are. If Bethesda says they're equal, then we should not treat one differently than the other, or we should at least clearly show they're supposed to be of equal value. Right now it's completely biased, and that's against Bethesda's view on it ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 21:28, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:Namespaces aren't official. This has nothing to do with how Bethesda treats them. The requirements that have been stated are the ones that currently seem to be followed. This discussion needs to be based around that. Just stating that "they aren't equal" and "split the namespace" isn't helpful at all. If we are going to split or combine namespaces, we need to come up with distinct and specific namespaces requirements that we should follow. Otherwise, I will propose splitting EVERY dlc into its own namespace, and because there weren't guidelines set down, we will have to do so because we were making arbitrary distinctions based on little more than personal opinion. I think that the Mehrunes' Razor plugin was quite large, and I have spent many hours with the Dunbarrow Pirates, why aren't they full namespaces, its not fair. Unless we come up with specific guidelines, this will have been a useless conversation. Silencer stated fairly well some requirements that would accurately describe how we have currently been splitting namespaces. Could you come up with some requirements that we could use for your point of view? One that would only add DG as a namespace, and no other DLC from any other game? These requirements much accurately describe the namespace policy for the entire site, not just Skyrim. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 21:38, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::This isn't personal opinion, this is Bethesda's "opinion", and therefore fact. It needs to be made clear at least, that both are considered equal. Maybe we need a new infobox for Skyrim DLC. The descriptions need a re-writing, and since we're on it, we need to know what the official names are, DLC/Plug-In/Add-On/Expansion/... ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 21:43, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:::No, this is a personal opinion. Namespaces are only for us, and therefore WE must decide how they work. The official term for Skyrim is DLC. HF, DG, and DB are all referred to by Bethesda as DLC. Using your logic, HF needs its own namespace. All of the Morrowind extras were referred to as Add-Ons. All of them. All the Oblivion ones were Plug-ins. Bethesda makes no distinction between them, the only distinction is ones that WE have imposed. This is our site, our wiki, not Bethesda's. We must decide how to split the namespaces. We have a system that works, and it works well. If you think that it should be changed, I think that everyone would be willing to hear it, but there needs to be a specific change. How would you write the namespace policy in order to add DG as its own namespace? What requirements would you use? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 21:47, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::::How about we add a clarification to [[UESPWiki:Namespaces]]? Dwarf, would that satisfy your concern if we clarified in that page's intro something like "The UESP namespaces are created for organizational convenience, and do not reflect the opinion of Bethesda."? [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 21:53, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
=== Dawnguard vs Dragonborn - Edit Break 2 ===
The fact that Dawnguard and Dragonborn are both DLCs of equal worth, according to Bethesda, is indisputable. Readers of the UESP wiki will therefore expect them to be treated as such. If the underlying mechanisms that we use to organize the wiki do not reflect that fact, for some organizational reason that only matters to Editors of the wiki, then it behoves us to obfuscate that distinction in some way, I believe. This is where the sidebar comes in to play. If we truly '''cannot''' represent the two DLCs as of equal merit, the way Bethesda do, in the underlying mechanics of the wiki (namespaces) then we owe it to the readers of the wiki to make it '''appear''' as if we do, by making them equal in all other respects, such as on the sidebar and in other page navigation devices. '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 22:13, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:I'm not sure how you have changed your sidebar, but I have the base sidebar, and there is no distinction between DB and DG. It lists skyrim, then it lists the DLC in order of release. That's it. They appear the exact same. I'm not sure what the issue is here? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 22:19, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
::Before I changed my sidebar in my [[User:Daric_Gaersmith/monobook.js|monobook.js]], Dragonborn was definitely treated the same as it is in the namespaces, as a special case, bigger and better than Dawnguard. As per the discussion above, and Jak's sandbox...
{{Showhide/Start|Difference Between Two Versions}}
{{User:Jak Atackka/Sandbox9}}
{{Showhide/End}}
::Since then, I have modified my own sidebar to make things look equal, the way Dwarfmp has been advocating in this present discussion. They're all called "DLC", and the larger DLC's, such as SI, KoTN, DG, and DB, are treated as equals, with everything else listed under "Other DLC" for each major game. Apart from the fact that my sidebar now doesn't collapse, it looks fine to me. '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 22:52, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:::But that's not how it appears right now. Right now, everything is treated equally. Dawnguard, Hearthfire and dragonborn all appear under the dropdown menu thing for skyrim. The old style was modified before it became official. That's why I'm sort of confused at what the issue is? Or has your issue been sneakily fixed without your knowledge? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 22:57, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

::::{{ec}}For reference (no opinion is inferred by this post), and I think someone was asking, currently at www.elderscrolls.com, all Morrowind ones from Bitter Coast Sounds and Master Index to Tribunal and Bloodmoon are called Expansions [http://www.elderscrolls.com/morrowind/expansions/]. TR and BM are considerably more prominent, however. All Oblivion ones, from Horse Armor and Spell Tomes to KotN and ShIsles, are called DLC [http://www.elderscrolls.com/oblivion/dlc/]. KotN and SI are equally prominant, and more so than the other eight. All Skyrim ones are called Add-ons [http://www.elderscrolls.com/skyrim/add-ons/], amd all three are listed equally. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 22:56, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:::::Ah, I was getting my terminology mixed up, but my point still stands, they were listed equally by Bethesda, and they all used the same terms. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 23:02, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
{{od}} You're right Jeancey, it looks like Jak has sneakily changed the placement of the DLCs in the sidebar, but I wouldn't have noticed that because I have already overridden the default sidebar. However, having taken a look just now at the site's sidebar without my own modifications, I see that the naming of the "extras" groups is still inconsistent, being "Official Add-ons" for Oblivion, and "Official Plug-Ins" for Morrowind. As per Enodoc's comment above, I think I'll keep my modified sidebar in place until that is fixed too. '''—''' [[User:Daric_Gaersmith|'''Daric''']][[User_talk:Daric_Gaersmith|✐]] 23:16, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

:Okay, I don't want to add fuel to the fire but I think some people here should learn to let go. The reasons for the separate namespaces are clear and concise and, while I think separating absolutely everything is overkill (thinking about Weapons/Armor/Unique Items in particular), the truth is that it does make things easier to document and it avoids confusion; a tiny DB next to the name is not exactly what I'd call noticeable. As it was stated above, the new search engine isn't limited to a single namespace and allows you to find anything you want without problem. The truth is that virtually no one cares; the goal of UESP is ease of use, and it's easy to use. The people who come here aren't idiots who are completely lost because we use different namespaces; they're knowledgeable about the game, they know that Dawnguard, Hearthfire and Dragonborn are Skyrim extensions.
:As for Dawnguard, I'd agree with a separate namespace. In the end, nearly all quests added take place in new locations, the fact that some of them are in mainland Skyrim seems irrelevant to me. I really don't think comparing it to KotN is fair, considering that it added only 8 places, two creatures (more like one and a half), one questline with no side-quests and only 32 NPCs. By comparison, Dawnguard is huge. Shivering Isles on the other hand, added as much if not more than Dragonborn. However, we obviously don't need to split pages like Vampire/Vampirism/Lycanthropy, and places that were modified can simply stay as they are, with a description mentionning the potential changes. But again, in the end, it doesn't matter to anyone but us few, the average user wll not be affected by such changes. [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 00:19, 31 March 2013 (GMT)
::Before this goes any further, I need to point out I've talked about it with Jeancey and some other people in the IRC shortly after my last post. Some interesting facts were raised, like KOTN having been the same cost as SI initially, etc. The point is, the discussion has led me to be confused, because apparently KOTN IS officially an expansion like SI, but I've always based the info off of this wiki, because I trusted everything to be correct here, but I was wrong. The name "plug-in" has apparently never been used, and is definitely not the proper name for Oblivion official mods. What I want, is simply the truth, clarity. Apparently Dawnguard IS a good deal smaller than Dragonborn, and I guess we can safely blame Bethesda for selling it as an equal DLC. Apparently, we need to come up with guidelines for what a namespace is, and what DLC/expansion deserves it, because apparently my view on it was wrong as well. I still think we need to change the infoboxes, and change the term "official plug-in", there has to be a good official term used everywhere. Btw Elakyn, you shouldn't underestimate people's stupidity... ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 00:45, 31 March 2013 (GMT)
:::Bethesda is inconsistent, thus we must come up with our own guidelines. Changing the infoboxes so that every main page for a DLC or game is the same would seem like an appropriate way to indicate that they are, in fact, the same. Having guidelines for namespaces also would be for the best, and I think we should stick to whatever guidelines we come up with. Separating the namespaces is based on the ease of use for us, thus it must be based on how easy it is to do that. As was pointed out, if Dawnguard was split, the majority of the links on those pages would be to skyrim pages, which defeats the purpose of having it in another namespace. I think the discussion now should focus around specific guidelines for namespaces as a whole, rather than for this specific DLC. One set of guidelines has already been proposed. Elakyn, since you seem to be of the opinion that Dawnguard should be a namespace, could you come up with some guidelines that would apply to all games and DLCs that would achieves this? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 01:06, 31 March 2013 (GMT)

:::Okay, so let's start a conversation at [[UESPWiki talk:Namespaces]] and work out some guidelines to add to that page. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 01:06, 31 March 2013 (GMT)

== Data upgrade of DLCs ==

I've pointed this problem out in the talk page of Skyrim:Ingredients, sadly nobody replied at all. It seems that the numbers of ingredients samples are out-dated. Obviously, they didn't take any DLCs into count. Maybe some upgrade is needed. It would be much more convenient. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 13:32, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
:I agree. Not quite sure how that would be implemented, to ensure that it was separate info for those who don't have it, but at the same time still included, but probably would involve additional counts of the ingredient with the {{tl|DG}}-style templates. -[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:26, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
::As a matter of fact, I won't pay much attention to the total numbers. However, locations with multiple samples added by DG or DB must be added as soon as possible. It's hard to have them done effectively without the help of CK. That's why I mentioned it here instead of getting them done by myself. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 11:57, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
:::We don't list all locations anyway, we only list around 10 possible locations for each ingredient. For most, if not all, the only thing that will change is the total numbers. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 12:33, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
::::I see, thers is no need to list every location with detailed numbers. However, for some ingredients, multiple samples appeared in DB or DG locations. For example, [[Dragonborn:Kagrumez|Kagrumez]] contains 10+ samples of [[Skyrim:Dwarven Oil|Dwarven Oil]], much more than any other locations listed in the original page. These cases should be mentioned anyway. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 12:48, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

== Bolding in captions and text ==

Yes I'm back to complain. I've brought up a similar subject a few months back (see [[UESPWiki:Community Portal/Archive 34#NPC intro image description|here]]). Now, I haven't exactly started bolding all over the place even though I'd want to, I don't see why the mass "fixing", aka removing, the bolding in the Oblivion namespace is justified without any sort of consensus reached. The origin of the bolding was in a fact link in the description linking to the page itself, causing boldness. Now don't ask me why this was so in most cases (who knows, a good reason forgotten), but I grew accustomed, heck, I knew nothing else before since it had always been like that. And it simply looks better too if you ask me. Now here comes Skyrim, most articles still composed by what I expect to be anons and complete lack of experience with the wiki. Newcomers think it's supposed to look like that. And here we are now ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 02:51, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
:Personal opinion. Bolding of the house and the name in the photo caption looks ridiculous... I think it makes articles seem less professional and sloppy. I don't like it and I don't think it should be there. That is my personal opinion. It makes no sense to have a link to the current page in the image caption. Absolutely zero sense. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 02:59, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
::And I think a lack of it looks unprofessional. Though I wouldn't say the house name needs bolding, that's true. I don't know why there were links, but supposedly so images and captions could be easily copied to another page. But that's not the point. And it isn't just those boldings, it's also bolding of dialogue topics in Oblivion, which makes for easier tracking, and makes perfect sense ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 03:09, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
:::Oh, I was only talking about the bolding in image captions and house names. It's like saying, THIS is the npc we are talking about... when there is only one NPC in the image, and you are on that's npc's page. It is like saying, "Hey reader, you are so stupid that we have to bold this name for you, just in case you didn't understand that you are on this page, and the image is of the NPC". It's insulting, personally. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 03:15, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
::::I have to agree with [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]].When I first came to the site and saw the bolding of names in image captions, I thought that it made it obvious who you are referencing. If I was, say, merely researching the games I would have no idea what the character looks like and so I could believe that an entirely different NPC than the one the page is on. That is my own opinion on this matter. --[[User:Dominus Arbitrationis| Ad Intellige]] [[User talk:Dominus Arbitrationis| Mecum loqui]] 03:21, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
:::::Dominus, not sure if you're being snarky or not, but if you are, please don't; it's unkind and unclear. If not, then sorry for thinking you may be; I can't tell.

:::::As for my input, bolding doesn't really do anything for character names in image captions, just looks a bit odd. As for topics being bolded, that makes a lot of sense to me. ''"When she talks about '''Anvil'''"'' clarifies that I have to click on "Anvil" in conversation to get that result and not "rumors" or "daily life", etc. because those could also be about Anvil. It also gives a bit of variation to the occasional walls of text. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 03:35, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
::::::It was not my intent to come off as snarky and so I apologize for that. I was merely trying to give my opinion that I support bolding the names.--[[User:Dominus Arbitrationis| Ad Intellige]] [[User talk:Dominus Arbitrationis| Mecum loqui]] 03:39, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
{{od}}My apologies then. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 03:42, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
:Before anyone undertakes a standardization project like this entailing a huge amount of edits, the considerate thing to do is garner a consensus to determine that your course of action is something the community wants. On this general topic, I'm apathetic. I don't think the bolding serves much point. Nor do I think it's detrimental in descriptions where it appears. But if someone does it, I don't see how it hurts. In my opinion, there's no reason to go make a ton of edits to ensure uniformity on such an inconsequential matter. While I might be missing some big debate(s), it seems to me that the long history of bolding in descriptions on many pages supports the conclusion that very few people are put off by this different practice. I'm a fan of standardizing things on the wiki, but not of big editing campaigns to make changes which don't actually make the page any better. It's something of a paradox. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 04:15, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
::I would just like to point out, that only a small number of oblivion pages actually bold the names, along with one or two morrowind ones. The vast majority of pages on the wiki do NOT bold the names in the image captions. We do not have a long history of it. There would be many many more to change to make them all bold than to make them all non-bold. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 04:57, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
:::By "long history", I only meant that the pages which are bolded have apparently been that way for a very long time. Countless people have viewed these pages, some must have noticed the difference, but it doesn't seem like there's been action against it. In other words, it's not something people seem to care much about one way or the other. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 05:18, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
::::Forgive me for my interruption. I just wonder is there anyone noticed my question above. I've been waiting for several days. I think that is more important than such "minor" problems. As a common user, I just care I can find any useful information here. I would pay little attention to these formats. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 09:09, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
:::::Does anyone have a link to an example of each case for reference? Thanks. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 11:20, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
::::::[[Oblivion:Laralthir|Here]] is an example of one of the few NPC pages with the NPC's name bolded in the first image caption; [[Oblivion:Countess Millona Umbranox|here]] is one of many where it is not.
::::::For what it's worth, I don't really care what's done on other sites or what was or was not done with consensus; I'd just like to see consistency. When you're on a page with a caption formatted one way and click over to a page that has it another way, it gives them impression that our editors don't know what they're doing. This may not be a showstopper issue, but uniformity conveys a certain level of professionalism that, frankly, I think we ought to strive for. If we cared enough about captions to make sure they don't have end punctuation, we can give a few minutes to care enough about this.
::::::Anyway, I would be in favor of ''not'' having bolded names in image captions, for a few reasons:
::::::# The extra formatting doesn't seem necessary. The NPC's name is on the title of the page and the heading of the infobox, and is already bolded in the first line of text. The bolding in the caption draws the eye to something the reader really already knows.
::::::# I think it would look odd to format the name in one image, but not the rest (for pages with many images).
::::::# The vast majority of NPC pages (across ''all'' namespaces) do ''not'' have the NPC's name bolded in the first image caption. This to me not only illustrates historical preference for no bolding, but also indicates it would be vastly easier to achieve consistency by ''removing'' the bold from captions that have them rather than adding them to the hundreds and hundreds that do not.
::::::⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 15:13, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

:::::::I'd agree with this, though I think it's kind of a huge waste of time for people to go through every page and remove bolding from image captions. There's so many other things that need real attention that it doesn't make sense to put this much effort into such a trivial formatting issue. If anything, maybe we can get a bot to go through and remove caption boldings. Just doesn't seem like it's worth the amount of work it would take for humans to do it all. There's plenty of other more important things people could be doing right now than wasting hours on this. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 15:52, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

::::::::That would be true if it were going to take hours ;). I think there's honestly only a handful of pages that have that formatting. If we decided to go ahead and remove the bolding, people could just do it as they come across it (or we could sic Helena on them!). It doesn't strike me at all as a "we must decide and then resolve the issue immediately" situation, but people clearly have opinions one way or the other, so...might as well talk it out while we're thinking about it. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 15:57, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} Sorry, it's been a busy day doing bot stuff on two different sites, and I'm only just now catching up on the ''huge'' amount of discussion that's shown up on AN and CP in the last 24 hours. To address Lurlock's point, if the decision is to remove it, then yes, a bot could very easily take care of removing the bolding, whether it's genuine bolding or the bolding introduced by self-linking, as in Eshe's example. Alternatively, if we want to put a user on it just to be doubly sure, the bot's already set up to generate lists of templates and their parameters, so it would be literally only a few clicks (and a whole lot of time waiting for it to finish) to generate a list of NPC Summaries with imgdesc's that contain the page name and either <nowiki>''' or [[</nowiki>. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:11, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

==New Project Proposal==

Woooweee! This is just like anticipating those speeches you absolutely ''dreaded'' in high school! Anyways, I'm posting here today to propose a new project scheme -- mainly for the [[Oblivion:Oblivion|Oblivion]] namespace. I've already spoken to several people (off the top of my head... [[User:Krusty|Krusty]], [[User:Eshe|Eshe]], etc) about my plans coinciding this -- I have even already started briefly in one of my sandboxes [[User:Helenaannevalentine/Sandbox 11|here]] trying to gather the basic information needed about each article. ''Anyways'' -- the project I'm here to propose is the '''[[User:Helenaannevalentine/Sandbox 13|Oblivion Houses Redesign Project]]'''!

Basically all the details I tried to explain on that page about what I hope to do with this project, but to sum it up here for you guys -- I want to create ''individual'' article pages of each ''individual'' house that is listed within the game itself. I am copying the examples set by the [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim namespace]] as it already '''has''' pages like this (example: [[Skyrim:Amren's House|Amren's House]]). Also there is the unmentionable fact that the [[UESPWiki:Oblivion NPC Redesign Project|Oblivion NPC Redesign Project]] has already listed most of the house contents already -- just on the wrong pages in my opinion. Why would you list a house and ALL it's contents on an NPCs page? Sure -- the NPC ''may'' live there afterall, but merely the location of where that NPC ''lives'' and also perhaps the ''schedule'' in which they can be found there should be listed in my honest opinion.

Anyways I'm not going to bore you guys with insane ramblings from me when I tried my best to summarize up the proposition I have when most (if not all of the meaning behind this project) is already listed on the page I previously [[User:Helenaannevalentine/Sandbox 13|linked]]... oh wait, there I did it ''again''! :)
-[[User:Helenaannevalentine|'''Helenaannevalentine''']]([[User_talk:Helenaannevalentine|'''talk''']]) 22:32, 4 April 2013 (GMT)
:I'm going to ask the same thing that I was asked. There is already an [[UESPWiki:Oblivion Places Redesign Project|Oblivion Places Redesign Project]]. Can't this be just added to the existing project? Why does it have to be a brand new project? [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 22:35, 4 April 2013 (GMT)
::The [[UESPWiki:Oblivion Places Redesign Project|Oblivion Places Redesign Project]], like Krusty just said in the IRC, is solely for dungeons and caves - which requires and has different standards with the guidelines and layouts, which is the main reason as to why I'm proposing this project also -- because this one also requires new articles along with any redirects, etc, to be made rather than solely improving on pre-existing articles. -[[User:Helenaannevalentine|'''Helenaannevalentine''']]([[User_talk:Helenaannevalentine|'''talk''']]) 22:42, 4 April 2013 (GMT)
:::This seems like a good idea, we can include more house details and even add a map of the interior. It should make some long pages shorter, which goes hand in hand with what seems to me its only bad side: it would shorten already short NPC articles ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 01:13, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
::::I'm just going to say that I always thought this was a good idea. I remember looking at the "House Contents" section of the OBNPCRP for the first time and going, "Huh. Why's it all shoved into one page, you really don't get into much about the house." Well, now we can change that. Full support. --[[User:Vulpa|Vulpa]] 01:19, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
{{ec}} Yes, on the downside it would ''shorten'' the NPC pages, but the pages themselves are meant to be solely about the NPC themselves and their inventory, schedule, etc -- not half of their pages consisting only of their house contents. To me, that's a bit pointless in itself, and justifies even more reason to go ahead with this project. Plus as you said, we could take interior images and really snazz up the new articles :) On another note, glad to have you onboard Vulpa! -[[User:Helenaannevalentine|helenaanne]]  [[User_talk:Helenaannevalentine|talk ♥]] 01:22, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
:I have to admit it's a good idea. However, may I have you take a look at this page, '''[[:Category:Needs_Maintenance|HERE]]'''. So much work and so limited resources. I won't argue the importance of this project. Maybe we should pay more attention to Skyrim and Dragonborn-related pages at this moment. From my point of view, a "Skyrim/Dradonborn Maintenance Project" would be more urgent ;) Let me guess, most readers are visiting SR and DB pages, these maintenance-need pages. Anyway, I don't think it's wise to spare more resources for other pages. At least, for now. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 02:51, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
:: Hi there [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]]! It's nice of you to add your opinion to the disucssion - you provide a valid point -- most pages that seemed to be visited nowadays are from the Skyrim namespace and Dragonborn namespace, etc -- '''but''' we can't solely focus on them just alone. We must continue to provide care and maintenance with the older namespaces -- hence why this project has been brought up here. Plus, most of the Skyrim and Dragonborn articles are '''already''' being focused on by most editors and contributors lately so there isn't as much of an urgency to have a project for those articles seeing as those articles themselves aren't being neglected. -[[User:Helenaannevalentine|helenaanne]]  [[User_talk:Helenaannevalentine|talk ♥]] 03:00, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
:::Going off of that, some of our editors don't have Skyrim or Dragonborn and are looking for things to do, or are more interested in Oblivion, etc. We have a redesign project for Skyrim already, and Dragonborn is too new for a redesign project to happen--it's still being written. Projects basically exist just to say "this needs to be done, and this is the way it should be done; help out if you want to." If people like Oblivion houses, they'll work on Oblivion houses. If people like Arena, they'll work on Arena. And if people like Dragonborn, they'll work on Dragonborn. It's just something to be done; our "limited resources" who are interested in this project probably won't be taking their attention away from elsewhere on the wiki to work on this. Plus, older pages still need to be maintained and in good condition.

:::As for the topic, OBHP sounds good to me. I never liked how houses were split from NPCs in Skyrim but not other games. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 03:11, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

::::My apologies then. Thanks for your reminder. I don't mean that we should pay no attention to older pages. If we can handle the balance between different pages. I'm always happy to see more and more detailed pages~ If possible, I'm for this project. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 03:21, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

== Terminology (again) ==

The name of the Skyrim player character. I [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal/Archive_27#Terminology|brought this up]] around the time of release, because I was concerned about how unprofessional it would appear and how potentially confusing to readers it could be if the lore section used two or more terms to refer to the same person. After objection to Last Dragonborn, it seemed we settled on Dovahkiin. But that "consensus" was never really adhered to. And now, almost a year and half later, we have a roughly even split between the use of these two terms in the lore pages. Now it seems like there might be [[User_talk:Legoless#The_.22Last_Dragonborn.22|more objection]] to using "Dovahkiin" than "Last Dragonborn". I'm ''not'' advocating for dozens of frivolous edits to change it to one or the other without some other substantive reason to edit, and I really don't care about the ultimate choice, but it would be really nice if we could all be in agreement moving forward, because this is ridiculous. And if it matters to anyone, we have a bit more material to consider now then we did back then, as [http://content3.uesp.net/oblivion/cs/cslist.php?game=sr&formid=0xDB029689 Miraak explicitly refers to the PC as the Last Dragonborn]. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 02:34, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

:I still think that in at least on any Skyrim pages, the player should always simply be referred to as "you". Removes ambiguity, and keeps the style of gameplay related articles in the 2nd person. The only time where this should even be an issue is on Lore pages where we have to refer to the player in the 3rd person. In those cases, my vote is for "Dohvahkiin". I still think it's a bit weird to refer to somebody as the "last" anything when we have no guarantees there will never be another. Miraak does say "last", but keep in mind, he's an egotistical maniac who believes himself to be immortal and is planning to kill you in a few minutes when he says that. Not sure his word should be presented as gospel. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 11:43, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

::Personally, I think the "Last Dragonborn" seems more like a title. Esbern and various NPC's call you "Dragonborn". Arngeir and various Dragons call you "Dovahkiin". I prefer "Dovahkiin" as it's clearer - especially in the lore articles - who we are referring to. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 12:09, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

:::The issue I see is in ambiguity. "Dragonborn" and "Dovahkiin" apply to an unknown number of people, while the prophetic "Last Dragonborn" is unique, like Nerevarine. If there is no ambiguity – and in this case, there usually isn't – Dovahkiin is suitable, but if clarity is required, Last Dragonborn should provide that (and possibly in some other cases, for example their first mention in the timeline {{Year|4E 201}}). The interesting thing about "Dovahkiin", which is my preferred option on the whole, is that you require someone knowledgeable about the dragon language to bestow it. Anyone who knows their history can recognise a "Dragonborn", but only those who have met the Greybeards or a dragon can reasonably be called "Dovahkiin". --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 12:43, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

::::I disagree that the word "Dovahkiin" applies to an unknown number of people, there is nothing in the lore that supports that. Even Tiber (who could shout) was never called "Dovahkiin", but was called a "Dragonborn". Our "Dovahkiin" is unique as he can absorb dragon souls, sometihng that no other mortal Dragonborn hero (that we know of) has been able to do. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 13:09, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

:::::Wait. I was going to stay out of this but now I'm confused: I thought that the player was recognized in game as "dragonborn" the moment he/she absorbed his/her first soul. I clearly recall the player and some guards defeating a dragon (Mirmulnir?) outside Whiterun. It was when the player stood next to the dragon and absorbed its power that the guards starting calling him/her "dragonborn". Now, we've established that dragonborn are recognized for exactly that--absorbing the souls of dragons. As for "dovahkiin", we say [[Skyrim:Dovahkiin|right here]] that dovahkiin and dragonborn are one and the same. The dragonborn is a term given to the player (and other past heroes) by mortal man. Dovahkiin is the exact same thing, just said in the dragon tongue. So now, dragonborn and dovahkiin BOTH apply to the player, and of heroes past that went around killing dragons for kicks and sucking up their power. But... "Last Dragonborn". That is far more unique. There's only one, and that's the player. As noted by Minor Edits, Miraak said so himself, and he's been around long enough to know. Even Esbern said something along the lines of "you're the first in centuries, and probably the last" (if you want I can probably go find the quote-- I ''just'' heard it). In a nutshell, I think "Last (Final?) Dragonborn" would be the most accurate (and then, throughout an article, just "the Dragonborn") title for the player. --[[User:Vulpa|Vulpa]] 13:22, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

::::::I support "the Last Dragonborn" for Lore pages and Dragonborn pages to an extent, but it's unnecessary for Skyrim ones. It avoids confusion, even though there are very few known Dragonborns in history, Miraak is actually the only one who could cause some confusion on the topic. Of course, it's still a pretty generic title; every Dragonborn was the last at some point. It doesn't sound as unique as "Nerevarine" or "Champion of Cyrodiil", but it's the most distinctive title we can give him/her. -- [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 16:03, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

:::::::@ Vulpa - The guards starting calling him/her "dragonborn" because of the old tales of Nords who could do the same as mentioned in the Book of the Dragonborn.

:::::::Dragonborn individuals are certainly not JUST recognized for absorbing the souls of dragons. Although Dragonborn and Dovahkiin are technically the same word and both apply to the player, there is a slight nuance between the "types" of Dragonborn. Alessia, despite being Dragonborn, could not absorb dragon souls (if you believe MK). We don't know if Reman or Tiber could either. I doubt all the heirs of the Septim bloodline could either, if we go by the Book of the Dragonborn. In this way we can create the distinction with Dragonborn and Dovahkiin. Like I said, "Last Dragonborn" is too much like a title, which is why I support that our hero is Dovahkiin. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 16:59, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} The "Last Dragonborn" is not a term introduced by Miraak, it was used in promotional material and in-game (vanilla) before Dragonborn DLC was known. Miraak himself is titled the "First Dragonborn". Just to cover it, Delphine calls Martin Septim Dragonborn, ''"For the last two hundred years, since the last Dragonborn emperor..."'' so we see that Dragonborn applies to more than Miraak and "you". The term Last Dragonborn comes from the prophecy, which ends with ''"The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn."'' This is the prophecy which you are a part of, to me it is explicitly calling "you" the "Last Dragonborn". It doesn't matter if more appear later, which would mean you weren't the "last", but you are still the "Last". It is a title given to you alone. Lastly, on dragonborn, Miraak does not call you the last, he addresses you as Last, ''"And so the First Dragonborn meets the Last Dragonborn at the summit of Apocrypha."'' The use of caps when addressing you shows that this is your title, not your position as last in the line. The problem with Dovahkiin, is that is is almost never used outside direct dialogue (or indirect in your presence), where addressing you informally by the more simple Dragonborn would be fine as it clearly is referring to you. The only usage I see is in Songs of Skyrim, where it is used in a songified version of the prophecy. Because Dovahkiin translates simply to Dragonborn, which can refer to more than one person, and a title has been clearly identified for the player (Last Dragonborn), I think we should move to using that title. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 16:51, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
:Also, see [[User talk:Legoless#The "Last Dragonborn"|this page]] ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 18:27, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

::Yeah, I linked to that above. For those of you keeping score at home, we're now tied 3-3. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 20:01, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

::: I'm going to throw in my support of the use of "Last Dragonborn" without reading any of the above discussion. This issue has already been dragged out far too much, and there's plenty of support behind the player character being Last. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 20:17, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

:::: As am I. "Last Dragonborn" seems to be the only term that we're certain refers to the player character in Skyrim. I agree with Elakyn, though, that this term should primarily be used in lorespace. It's a proper title, as Jimeee said, which is perfectly appropriate for lorespace; in gamespace, though, "you" would be best. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 02:50, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

:::::Okay, then, that sounds fine to me. "Last Dragonborn" is how Bethesda refers to the player character, and we should just take their word for it at this point. While "Last Dragonborn" has the potential to mislead, "Dovahkiin" is actively misleading, so it's hardly a decent alternative. Unless someone wants to filibuster for "Dovahkiin", I think we're done here. Thanks for your time, everyone. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 04:11, 6 April 2013 (GMT)
::::::Oh oops, I didn't realize you already had linked to that discussion, I did not get the impression people read it from the posts here previously, my apologies ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 12:38, 6 April 2013 (GMT)
{{od}}So, are we free to change "Dovahkiin" to "Last Dragonborn" wherever we find it in Lore, or are we taking it on a case-by-case basis? Might be a good job for a bot if we are changing it wholesale. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 16:32, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

: I don't think having it automated would be a good idea. It might be used in the correct context on some articles (e.g. [[Lore:Dragon Language]]). I say change it where you see it. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:34, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

:: I agree. This is definitely a case where humans are preferable to bots. Otherwise, you're probably going to see changes that end up like this: "The Last Dragonborn, also called The Last Dragonborn...." :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:28, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

== Skyrim Main page link to People instead of NPCs - revisited ==

The Skyrim NPCs page is just about impossible to find without searching for it directly, and that has been made more difficult since the wiki upgrade. I think the main Skyrim page should link to the NPC page instead of the People page. The NPC page already contains a link to the People page, and I would consider named People to be a subset of NPCs. Thoughts? --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 04:37, 20 September 2012 (GMT)

:I would support this change. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 04:49, 20 September 2012 (GMT)
{{od}}I'm bringing this up again, including the response I got last time, since it never got resolved when I first brought it up last year. I would like a little more consensus before changing the Skyrim main page. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 20:24, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

:Currently, the namespaces MW, OB and SR seem to function in the same way with regards to this; People is linked from the main page, and NPCs is linked by some obscure link from within the People page. I agree that People acts as a subset of NPCs, as the trail on SR:People reflects this. I think there should be consistency across the namespaces, though. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:34, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

::Both are equally desired imo. I've updated the pages to have the NPC link first, with named people as a sub-bullet. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:58, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
:::That works. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 21:02, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
::::How about DB? I'd like to speak for our Reavers and Werebears. It's hard to visit them directly now. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 23:27, 5 April 2013 (GMT)
:::::I overlooked Shivering and Dragonborn, they have also been changed now. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 23:40, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

== Skyrim:Statistics page? ==

Would there be any objection if I created a statistics page for Skyrim in the same vein as [[Oblivion:Statistics]]. I would sandbox it first. Just an idea for a future project. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 23:59, 6 April 2013 (GMT)
:I see and uphold no objections towards the creation of such a page, as long as the article is sandboxed and presented upon completion there is no real harm in having such a page when similarly the Oblivion namespace has one. The only concern would be with the possibilities of more additional add-on content with Skyrim and having to possibly update the page. -[[User:Helenaannevalentine|helenaanne]]  [[User_talk:Helenaannevalentine|talk ♥]] 00:14, 7 April 2013 (GMT)
::Fine by me, go for it. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 00:21, 7 April 2013 (GMT)
:::Only problem with Skyrim statistics is that quite a few of them do not have any clear maximum. E.g. Because of the Radiant system, you can clear the same dungeon more than once, so there's no way to say what the maximum number of dungeons cleared is. It's the same reason it's hard to do a 100% completion page for Skyrim. But with that understanding, feel free. Just make sure to note that most of them can never really be completed. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 12:32, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

== Daedric Font ==

Would we be able to have a Daedric Font template made like the {{tl|DragonFont}} template? We do currently have a {{tl|DaedricFont}} template but this one only works if you already have the font installed. There is also the {{tl|Daedric}} template but this apparently causes some sort of technical strain for the wiki and needs to be used on sub pages linked to by the {{tl|DaedricNotice}} template? [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 03:43, 7 April 2013 (GMT)
:It could be done via [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] like the Dragon Font:
<pre>
/* Add webfont support for Dragon Font */
@font-face {
font-family: 'DragonscriptRegular';
src: url('/w/extensions/DragonFont/dragon_script.eot');
src: url('/w/extensions/DragonFont/dragon_script.eot?#iefix') format('embedded-opentype'),
url('/w/extensions/DragonFont/dragon_script.woff') format('woff'),
url('/w/extensions/DragonFont/dragon_script.ttf') format('truetype'),
url('/w/extensions/DragonFont/dragon_script.svg#DragonscriptRegular') format('svg');
font-weight: normal;
font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal;
}
</pre>
:Should be easy enough I'd presume. [[User:Elliot|Elliot]] ([[User talk:Elliot|talk]]) 03:59, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

::The biggest trick would probably just be getting the font into the various formats. Anybody have format converters for the various types listed? I've never even heard of .eot and .woff, personally. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:51, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

:::Sorry for interruption. Just another minor problem. May I have anyone take a look at these two font files, [[Lore:Dragon_Alphabet#Dragon Alphabet Font|here]] and [[Lore:Daedric_Alphabet#Resources|here]]. It seems that there is something wrong with the zip files. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 07:21, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

::::They both appear fine to me. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 08:12, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

:::::Well, if you say so. Never mind. Maybe just some problems with my Internet connections, I guess. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 10:33, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

== Ref ID N/A ==

Just something else I've been meaning to bring up. The NPCs that are spawned, and not present when you start a game, don't have a Ref ID. This makes their infobox have an empty space, obviously, and to me it looks as if the ID just hasn't been filled in yet. I think it's better to have it filled with 'N/A', so as to make the readers sure it hasn't been skipped. Now the only bad thing about it is that the Ref ID shows up under their name on top of the infobox, leaving a (N/A) there in such cases, but I feel that's not really a problem.

Anyway, I did fill that in on two NPC pages, but one of them has been removed again, so I'll just ask it here and see what's up ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 11:04, 7 April 2013 (GMT)
:I brought this up somewhere over a year ago, possibly on Nephele's talk page after she reverted me when I added a refID with "ff" in it. I don't think a decision was ever reached. I think back then I suggested using "n/a" or removing it from the template for those NPCs. Using n/a seems like the best solution, unless someone else comes up with a better one. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 20:09, 7 April 2013 (GMT)
::I'd personally prefer "N/A" (capitalized), but yes, I support this proposal. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 20:45, 7 April 2013 (GMT)
:::How about "Randomly generated" or something similar, since "not applicable" is not technically true? --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 20:52, 7 April 2013 (GMT)
::::In that case 'Radiant' would be consistent with the rest of the NPC data that is random for some (race, gender, etc). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:57, 7 April 2013 (GMT)
:::::As long as it is genuinely radiant, I don't mind using "Radiant" either. I'm not sure if there are any situations where it isn't radiant, though. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 00:30, 8 April 2013 (GMT)
::::::I'm pretty certain there are cases where NPC refs are generated (NOT randomly) during gameplay which are NOT part of the Radiant system. "Radiant" has a specific meaning in the Skyrim engine. It is not just a synonym for "randomly generated". So while this might get the point across, it would be technically inaccurate. I think "N/A" is probably the best to use, since it covers all cases. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 00:44, 8 April 2013 (GMT)
{{od}}I'm all for this, though I have less of an opinion as to the specifics of what we put in there. If there's a need to distinguish between truly radiant and those that are generated in some other fashion, then a human will have to make the change. If we go that route, there's a list in [[User:RobinHood70/Het]] of everything that would need looked at. If we just want to fill them all in with "N/A" (or whatever), it's a relatively simple bot job. The only question would be what to do with non-blank values that probably should be treated as though they were (specifically: "00000000", "&nbsp;", "{{tl|huh}}", "dynamic", "N/A", and "varying"), or if the bot should only fill in blank entries. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:36, 8 April 2013 (GMT)
:In cases where there is no unique RefID, I think "N/A" is best. The only reason I removed one is because it's not something we've done in the past anywhere from what I've seen. I am completely against using "00000000" (which I know was something rphe's bot did in the past) as it's incorrect information, and could possibly lead to confusion for people who aren't familiar enough with IDs to realize it means there isn't one. "N/A" is widely-used and understood, and is accurate enough to cover most (all?) cases which do not have unique RefIDs. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 16:14, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
::What is wrong with leaving it blank? If you leave it blank, it doesn't even display in the table. What is wrong with that? I would also like to echo ABC's comment about 0000000... I have very much opposed to using that. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 18:06, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
:::So I looked into it. Currently {{tl|NPC Summary}} displays the refid even when blank, but {{tl|Creature Summary}} does not. [[SR:Giant|This]] is what I was thinking of when I said it didn't display. How would everyone feel about using that style in NPC Summary? Compare it to [[SR:Drascua|this]], a creature summary with a refid. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 18:17, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
::::I can agree with that, as it doesn't propose there might be a refid, because the "title" is gone. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 18:20, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
:::::Sounds like a good solution. If it doesn't exist, leave it blank. If it's radiant or random, state as such. I think if we leave it blank, and it can be randomly or radiantly generated, then we risk editors changing it to the random/radiant ID that they have seen. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 18:45, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
::::::I don't like the two empty cells. To me, that looks like something's gone wrong. When there's no RefID, I'd rather see the BaseID cell span the entire row (like Location, a few above it on the Giant page), even though that would effectively move it out of its customary location. While it would probably confuse people at first, now that I'm thinking along those lines, it might not be a bad idea to swap the order of the BaseID and RefID so that the one that's always going to exist is on the left, then the one that may or may not exist is on the right. I have no firm preference as to whether we go with RefID = N/A or just have the BaseID span the row, though. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:10, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

== Dialogue, Dialogues or Conversations ==

I'm working on add unique dialogues to SR:people pages in recent days. I've noticed some conflicts about the standard layout and I'm a little confused. In order to seek the final unification, I brought it up here. As you know, a NPC's unique dialogue may be just some single sentences, may be a short conversation with other NPCs. At this moment, I have the following concerns: 
* 1.Subtitle: Dialogue, Dialogues or Conversations, which one should we use. e.g. [[Skyrim:Bryling|Conversations here]] and [[Skyrim:Irnskar_Ironhand|Dialogue here]](most popular cases)
* 2.Summary: For a short conversation, a summary is needed? e.g. [[Skyrim:Bryling|here]] and [[Skyrim:Oengul_War-Anvil|here]]
* 3.Table: Is it necessary to use a table? e.g. [[Skyrim:Anoriath|here]] and [[Skyrim:Danica_Pure-Spring#Conversations|here]], and Alphabetface's opinion is [[User talk:Alphabetface|here]]. 
After all, the final unification is needed. [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 05:09, 11 April 2013 (GMT)
:Dialogue should be used. In this instance, dialogues is incorrect, grammatically (I'm fairly sure. I can't find the form in online dictionaries). [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 05:13, 11 April 2013 (GMT)
::I see. Shall we change the "Conversations" on some pages into "Dialogue"? What's more, how about other problems I submit, any ideas? [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 12:10, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
:::I agree that "Dialogue" is the best header title. As for the short bits of conversation that are included with the main section of an NPCs article, I think that leaving them in that section is fine for now. If we are going to create a "Dialogue" section, then any dialogue should probably go there, unlike [[Skyrim:Bryling|Bryling]]'s page. As Krusty stated on ABCFace's talk page, a table is probably most appropriate for random dialogue. All of this is mostly a matter of personal taste. Consistency across articles is good, but not necessarily a hard-and-fast rule. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 14:04, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
::::Very well~ I've got the idea and I like it very much. Thanks~ [[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 14:25, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
:::::To be super-pedantic, the term "dialogue" technically means a conversation between 2 (and exactly 2) people. Compare to "monologue", which is just one person talking. So technically, any conversation involving 3 or more people is not technically "dialogue". But honestly, nobody uses that strict a definition anymore, so whatever. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 19:48, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
::::::That's incorrect actually TRL:
::::::noun 1. conversation between two or more persons.
::::::It isn't JUST two people. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 19:56, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

{{od}} My preference would be to not have a separate section at all if it were avoidable. It messes with the normal flow we used with the ONPCRP. Introduction, schedule, inventory, spells, dialogue, rumors. Rumors about the NPC traditionally go last, but with dialogue split between two sections rumors are thrown into the second. Of course, NPCs and the player character used to have considerably less dialogue, so I kind of understand it even if it subconsciously annoys me every time I see it. If the conversations with other NPCs are going to be split off, I prefer it to be labeled under "Dialogue". --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 21:03, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
:Jeancey: Depends on how originalist you make your definition. The "Di-" prefix means "two". In the original use of the term, and I'm talking ancient Greek theater here, it specifically meant "two". Obviously, that is not consistent with modern usage at all, just a curiosity. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 23:51, 12 April 2013 (GMT)
::Actually, no, the prefix is "dia-" meaning "through" (c.f. [[wiktionary:dialogue#Etymology|Wiktionary entry, etymology]]). – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:24, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
:::* 1.Subtitle: I would not mind using Dialogue or Conversations, however its a good idea to choose only one for consistency and Dialogue seems the most popular.
:::* 2.Summary: The summary is a good idea. Some of the conversations only take place at certain times or at certain places.
:::* 3.Table: Your two examples are completely different. I do not think most people including [[Skyrim:Anoriath|Anoriath]] needs a table, however for [[Skyrim:Danica_Pure-Spring#Conversations|Danica_Pure-Spring]] her random dialogue is easier to list in a table.
:::Just my opinion. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 01:33, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim talk:Dragon Riding

2013-04-12T11:01:17Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Use of bend will? */ reply

== Page Improvements ==
Alright then, let's get to work on making this page look good. Just for reference on this article and others, is using information released by Bethesda regarding various notes and bugs still considered plagiarizing? They have posted a rather lengthy list of helpful information regarding [[Dragonborn:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] on their support page but I don't want to use it if the wiki won't allow it.

Just to make a list of things that this page could benefit from:

*An image of a player riding a dragon. (Preferably one that isn't taken from another site.)
*Any bugs that might occur while dragon riding.
*A tutorial for the dragon riding controls (especially useful for players who might have missed the in-game tutorial).
*Division of the page into various sections; e.g. obtaining the dragon, traveling, combat, etc.
That's all for now, I hope to see this page turn out quite nicely.

--[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 13:56, 12 December 2012 (GMT)

:Hostile dragons will turn hostile again after the bend will shout has worn off and the player has dismounted {{uns2|06:07, 14 December 2012‎|170.224.50.12}}

::Have you personally tested this? --[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 07:04, 14 December 2012 (GMT)

:::Yeah, I've tested this, the shout wore off just after I dismounted and the dragon started to attack me. Happened every time I tamed a hostile dragon. [[User:AyaHawkeye|AyaHawkeye]] ([[User talk:AyaHawkeye|talk]]) 14:54, 19 December 2012 (GMT)
::::I can confirm this tested with a dozen different dragons, some became hostile immediately while some flew off and became hostile later, no known reason why as of now[[User:JCsquared|JCsquared]] ([[User talk:JCsquared|talk]]) 19:03, 19 December 2012 (GMT)
:::::Happens to me more often than the dragon being peaceful. There should be a mention in a 'notes' section. [[User:Romandoug|Romandoug]] ([[User talk:Romandoug|talk]]) 04:43, 22 December 2012 (GMT)
::::::The page has already been updated to reflect this, stating: ''"The dragon will then either aid you in combat, attack you or simply leave."'' — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 04:44, 22 December 2012 (GMT)
{{od}}If you miss the tutorial, you can figure out the proper controls afterwards by looking in the help section of the pause menu. --[[Special:Contributions/68.35.158.74|68.35.158.74]] 22:04, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

== Getting back to Skuldafn ==

I would have thought that if you can ride a dragon then surely you should be able to fly back to Skuldafn?{{unsigned|‎195.194.238.110|12:06, 13 December 2012}}
:I'll test it now, but I very much doubt it. [[User:AyaHawkeye|AyaHawkeye]] ([[User talk:AyaHawkeye|talk]]) 01:57, 15 December 2012 (GMT)
:EDIT: Nope you can't, the map marker doesn't show up so it's a no go I'm afraid! [[User:AyaHawkeye|AyaHawkeye]] ([[User talk:AyaHawkeye|talk]]) 02:10, 15 December 2012 (GMT)

== Riding Odahviing? ==

The article says that "There are only four known dragons that you cannot ride at this time: Paarthurnax, Durnehviir, Alduin, and the skeletal dragon"

Does that mean that Odahviing can be ridden? I mean, asides from the quick scene where he takes you to Skuldafn. That doesn't really count as "dragon riding" from a gameplay standpoint.

What I mean is, can Odahviing be hit with Bend Will, and if so, will it work? If not, that should probably be mentioned on the article. -[[User:TheGrayThunder|TheGrayThunder]] ([[User talk:TheGrayThunder|talk]]) 15:52, 13 December 2012 (GMT)

:Yes, you can ride Odahviing. You have to go to the Troat of the world to do so.--[[User:Nornad|Nornad]] ([[User talk:Nornad|talk]]) 17:47, 13 December 2012 (GMT)

::This article is specifically about riding dragons by using the new gameplay mechanic introduced by Dragonborn. There are definitely more dragons that cannot be ridden, particularly named ones but they will need to be tested (Bethesda talked about this in an article I just didn't want to plagiarize the information from their site, so I'm holding off on adding info until I can test it myself.) While riding Odahviing as part of the last quest may be mentioned on this page, it's not as important. --[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 06:57, 14 December 2012 (GMT)

:::After doing some testing, Bend Will ''does'', in fact, work on Odahviing (allowing for him to be ridden). The dragon riding dialogue is even spoken in his unique voice. However, he may leave before you are able to recharge your shout to use it on him. --[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 01:08, 6 January 2013 (GMT)

== New additions to the no fly list ==

Naaslaarum and Voslaarum {{uns2|01:37, 15 December 2012‎|71.235.183.88}}

:You can't ride Mirmulnir either
:Since you encounter him before learning that you are the Dragonborn, which is well before learning the Dragon Riding skill. {{uns2|08:50, 21 December 2012‎|76.186.160.229}}

::Attempted to use Bend Will on Vulthuryol in Blackreach, and it failed. [[Special:Contributions/64.12.116.210|64.12.116.210]] 03:04, 24 December 2012 (GMT)
:::Yup, I tested it as well, Vulthuryol is unaffected...Which is a real shame, because riding a dragon in Blackreach would have been freaking awesome. {{uns2|23:36, 5 January 2013|BlackhawkXIII}}

== Spells ==

There is a list called DLC2DRAllowedSpells in the game data: Banish Daedra, Candlelight, Chain Lightning, Close Wounds, Ebonyflesh, Equilibrium, Expel Daedra, Fast Healing, Fireball, Firebolt, Flames, Frostbite, Grand Healing, Greater Ward, Healing, Ice Spike, Ironflesh, Lesser Ward, Lightning Bolt, Magelight, Oakflesh, Soul Trap, Steadfast Ward, Stoneflesh.

and another called DLC2DRRestrictedSpells:
Ash Guardian, Ash Rune, Conjure Ash Guardian, Dead Thrall, Dread Zombie, Fire Rune, Fire Storm, Frenzy Rune, Frost Rune, Healing Hands, Heal Other, Lightning Rune, Lightning Storm, Poison Rune, Raise Zombie, Reanimate Corpse, Revenant, Wall of Flames, Wall of Frost, Wall of Storms.

--[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 19:40, 19 December 2012 (GMT)

: So do you think we can sum it up by saying that Summoning, Runes, Reanimation, Elemental Wall, and Master Destruction spells cannot be used while dragon riding? Might make it easier should we add this info to the page proper. [[User:Derejin|Derejin]] ([[User talk:Derejin|talk]])

::We could just list the spells on the page as those don't seem to entirely block certain areas (like touch spells or summoning). --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 00:05, 20 December 2012 (GMT)

== Dragon riding is great for destruction ==

I just hitch a ride, fly to somewhere with a ton of outside critters like brucas readout, and fling fireballs at them without receiving much damage. Add in the mage stone it can be an entertaining way to spam magic. {{uns2|06:48, 21 December 2012‎|Romandoug}}

== dragons flying pattern? ==

is it just me missing something or is there a way to make dragons stop flying in a pattern around the area you get on them at or fast travel to? everytime i get on one, it flies around the area without ever going towards the quest marker or anything, same after fast traveling, am i missing something?--[[Special:Contributions/76.22.177.202|76.22.177.202]] 06:36, 22 December 2012 (GMT)

== Dragon phrases ==

I have added a section detailing the dialogue dragons say when riden. I think I have most of them, though some could be missing. I was unable to hear the dragon speech for the last two lines of the dragon dismissed area, the dragon is usually flying away and no subtitles appear so it would help if someone else could try to add it.[[User:30johner|30johner]] ([[User talk:30johner|talk]]) 01:35, 5 January 2013 (GMT)

:I caught one, I have served you long enongh. Tiidi do ahmik ahlann. The first 3 mean, Time of/about service, but I'm not sure about ahlann. Ahraan is close but I'm sure he said Ahlann. The phrase seems like it could be, My time of service is over/done. Any ideas?[[User:30johner|30johner]] ([[User talk:30johner|talk]]) 01:52, 5 January 2013 (GMT)

::This is good information though I have a few comments. For one, it would be good if someone put the lines of dialogue in the same format as other quoted dialogue on other pages. Also, if you want to translate the lines, try using the formatting that is used in the draugr section of [[Skyrim:Undead|this page]]. Lastly, I would make a suggestion to move this section to the [[Skyrim:Dragon|Dragon]] page since other generic NPCs have their lines of dialogue listed on their individual pages (e.g. the [[Skyrim:Bandit|Bandit]] page). --[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 00:38, 6 January 2013 (GMT)

== No Soul Absorbed ==

Not sure if this is to be expected but it may be worth noting that if you kill a dragon while riding a dragon, the dead dragon won't dissolve and you may not be able to absorb its soul. --[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 01:19, 6 January 2013 (GMT)

:Probably because you're not close enough to the dead dragon to trigger the event. [[User:VycDarkshadow|VycDarkshadow]] ([[User talk:VycDarkshadow|talk]]) 04:36, 15 January 2013 (GMT)
::That may be the case but I believe one time the dragon was killed after I dismounted (my own dragon continued to help fight) and I still didn't absorb the soul. I wish I had gotten a chance to test this more thoroughly but I won't be able to at this point. --[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 19:05, 16 January 2013 (GMT)
:::In my experience, you won't absorb the soul of a dragon while you are riding. If you land and walk up to the dead dragon however, you should absorb it. My guess is that you just had the basic "won't absorb dragon soul" glitch. For me, I killed two dragons at once with their bodies dying near each other, and I was able to absorb both souls after I landed....... ---[[User:Gamer3427|Gamer3427]] ([[User talk:Gamer3427|talk]]) 03:31, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

== Using Weapons ==

In the description on the page, it says, ''"The use of weapons (such as bows and melee weapons) are mostly limited as well."''

My question is in regards to the word "mostly", which implies that some weapons can in fact be used, but doesn't clarify. I'm just wondering if we should include a list of such weapon types, possibly just by rewording the sentence. From what I can tell, the only weapons you can use on Dragon-back are staves and scrolls, (or at least the Spider Scrolls), but are there any others that I'm unaware of? ---[[User:Gamer3427|Gamer3427]] ([[User talk:Gamer3427|talk]]) 04:00, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

== Dragon unable to attack? ==

After taming a dragon, then selecting a target to attack, the dragon says something along the lines of "That is impossible" and refuses to attack it. It just keeps flying around in circles, and telling it to land causes it to just fly in a straight line. Any fixes for this?
--[[User:Shadeseven|Shadeseven]] ([[User talk:Shadeseven|talk]]) 13:38, 6 February 2013 (GMT)
:Have you been able to replicate this bug? Does it happen for every dragon you ride? --[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 18:40, 6 February 2013 (GMT)
::Every single dragon I've tamed so far has been unable to attack, so yeah. I've replicated it. And before you ask, no I do not have any mods affecting dragons, like deadly dragons and such. Just a replacement model for Odahviing. --[[User:Shadeseven|Shadeseven]] ([[User talk:Shadeseven|talk]]) 23:47, 6 February 2013 (GMT)

== More possible bugs ==
Got on dragon fought 2 other dragons and when one of their health got low the dragon I was riding didn't go down and finish him off. He just kept flying in circles while the 3rd dragon beat him up. Then when I dismounted I could knock arrows but the arrows weren't visible. Then the dragon I was riding came back and killed me. lol [[Special:Contributions/173.51.248.19|173.51.248.19]] 21:48, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

: When i ride a dragon i just stand on the neck of the dragon. I don't sit there, i stand. this looks very weird. --[[Special:Contributions/188.110.166.165|188.110.166.165]] 13:08, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

== Bad Locations ==

In the main section there should be a list of all the restricted areas.
A bunch of locations that one wouldn't think of are actually restricted. Such as goldenglow estate, college of winterhold, high hrothgar, skyheaven temple. Its not just simple throat of the world. {{uns2|03:45, 8 March 2013‎| Hisazul}}
:That brings up another question. Is the Throat of the World really a "bad location" (we need a better name for these)? If you can use Bend Will on Odahviing there, it seems to me that the location may not be the issue. Paarthurnax may be the issue. I don't have DB, so can someone clarify this? --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 04:34, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

== Is that really a bug? ==

In the bugs section it says: ''While in flight, your dragon and everything around you may slow down to a near walking speed.''

Isn't that more of a system issue? — [[User:Kunvulonin|Kunvulonin]][[User_talk:Kunvulonin|Künvülänin]] 04:57, 23 March 2013 (GMT)
:Could be. That's why it needs verification. There no way for us to tell all of the conditions that the editor who posted the bug was experiencing, so it may be a legitimate bug. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 06:31, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

::Hmm. Nevermind, I actually experienced this in my game a few times. While I was mounted on a dragon he was flying a slow motion speed. Even after I dismounted him, he continued to fly slow while everyone else (enemies on the ground) moved at normal pace. — [[User:Kunvulonin|Kunvulonin]][[User_talk:Kunvulonin|Künvülänin]] 04:19, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

== Key set info ==

Shall we add key set info into this page? Many readers would wonder which key to use to control a dragon. I think they are very important and practical. Of course, not only PC, but also Xbox and PS3.[[User:Dreamshadow|Dreamshadow]] ([[User talk:Dreamshadow|talk]]) 00:53, 6 April 2013 (GMT)
:I definitely agree. I had wanted to do it myself but just didn't know how. I suppose the only reason it didn't happen sooner was because you're forced to do the in-game tutorial and can access it later if need be. Still, I think it's quite relevant, since dragon riding is it's own game mechanic with unique controls. --[[User:BlackhawkXIII|BlackhawkXIII]] ([[User talk:BlackhawkXIII|talk]]) 20:23, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

== Use of bend will? ==

Anyone care to share experiences using bend will? How many "attacks" with bend will are required to subdue and ride any given dragon/ hostile dragon etc.? {{uns2|10:50, 12 April 2013 (GMT)|172.3.70.19}}
:You only need to shout once, with all three words. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 11:01, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

Daggerfall talk:Resolution of Zenithar

2013-04-11T19:49:10Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Zenithar or Z'en? */ new section

== Zenithar or Z'en? ==

Why is the page called ''"Resolution of Zenithar"''? I seem to recall them being called ''"Resolution of Z'en"'' ingame. [[User:Kimi the Elf|— Kimi the Elf]] ([[User talk:Kimi the Elf|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kimi_the_Elf|contribs]]) 19:49, 11 April 2013 (GMT)

Lore:Resolution of Z'en

2013-04-11T19:40:40Z

Kimi the Elf: both :( ?

<noinclude>{{Lore Factions Trail}}</noinclude>{{#ifeq:{{PAGENAME}}|Resolution of Z'en|[[Image:Daggerfall Signs Resolution of Z'en.png|thumb|Resolution of Z'en]]}}
The {{Lore Link|Resolution of Z'en}} is a temple devoted to {{Lore Link|Z'en}}, the God of Commerce and Patron of Merchants and Mercenaries. Long ago, in the movement's birth, early members made a temple like no other: one meant to be adaptable, but resilient to the storm of time. They are thus called Resolutions, a far more descriptive term than temples.<noinclude>

For game-specific information, see the Daggerfall article on [[Daggerfall:Resolution of Zenithar|Resolution of Zenithar]].</noinclude>

Lore:Resolution of Z'en

2013-04-11T19:33:47Z

Kimi the Elf: maybe better like this?

<noinclude>{{Lore Factions Trail}}</noinclude>{{#ifeq:{{PAGENAME}}|Resolution of Z'en|[[Image:Daggerfall Signs Resolution of Z'en.png|thumb|Resolution of Z'en]]}}
The [[{{NAMESPACE}}:Resolution of Z'en|Resolution of Z'en]] is a temple devoted to [[Lore:Z'en|Z'en]], the God of Commerce and Patron of Merchants and Mercenaries. Long ago, in the movement's birth, early members made a temple like no other: one meant to be adaptable, but resilient to the storm of time. They are thus called Resolutions, a far more descriptive term than temples.<noinclude>

For game-specific information, see the Daggerfall article on [[Daggerfall:Resolution of Zenithar|Resolution of Zenithar]].</noinclude>

Lore:Resolution of Z'en

2013-04-11T19:32:22Z

Kimi the Elf: Undo revision 1167571 by MortenOSlash (talk) - link was correct before

<noinclude>{{Lore Factions Trail}}</noinclude>{{#ifeq:{{PAGENAME}}|Resolution of Z'en|[[Image:Daggerfall Signs Resolution of Z'en.png|thumb|Resolution of Z'en]]}}
The [[{{NAMESPACE}}:Resolution of Z'en|Resolution of Z'en]] is a temple devoted to [[Lore:Z'en|Zenithar]], the God of Commerce and Patron of Merchants and Mercenaries. Long ago, in the movement's birth, early members made a temple like no other: one meant to be adaptable, but resilient to the storm of time. They are thus called Resolutions, a far more descriptive term than temples.<noinclude>

For game-specific information, see the Daggerfall article on [[Daggerfall:Resolution of Zenithar|Resolution of Zenithar]].</noinclude>

User:Fluff

2013-04-11T17:15:44Z

Kimi the Elf: Undo revision 1167431 by 80.93.217.41 (talk) - spam

Hi! I've been lurking about this wiki since Morrowind. It wasn't until Oblivion that I finally decided to edit something. Now it's on to Skyrim.

I'll admit it: 100% of my edits are selfish. I want a well-written resource to which I can refer to answer my questions. If some of the stuff I write just happens to help someone else in the meantime...well, it wasn't my intention. That being said, you can be sure I don't abandon my edits. I want something high quality, not a page full of speculation and superstition. I'm most interested in game mechanics, so I'm all over the crafting skills, but I'll happily contribute to any page if I have the knowledge.
<hr>
My current Skyrim characters:
:'''Petrichor''' - This male Breton was my first character to venture into Skyrim. I have an unfortunate tendency to power-game, and the lure of Alchemy/Enchanting/Smithing was too great. After creating uber weapons and armor, I quickly finished up the main quest and then relegated him to live in Proudspire Manor for the rest of his days. He is my current test character.

:'''Geosmin''' - This female High Elf is a secret undercover operative of the Thalmor. Her assignment is to discover and acquire as many powerful magical artifacts as possible before the Thalmor invade this land for good. She disdains armor and weapons, thinking them extremely crude and inefficient compared to magical effects. As such, she never wears armor and only wields staves occasionally. She also sneers at Destruction magic, thinking it a waste of magicka for such a fleeting effect. Her typical modus operandi is to summon atronachs to take care of her enemies while she stands back waiting impatiently for everything to just die. When close combat is necessary, she'll summon a sword to deal with her foes while shielding herself with magic. Her true passion is enchanting; she has a native talent for it and thinks that it's one of the highest forms of magic one can use. After her artifact hunt, she intends to join the Imperials to wipe out the rebelling Stormcloaks and restore order to the land. After all, what good is this realm if it's destroyed by civil war?

Arena:Places

2013-04-11T01:09:28Z

Kimi the Elf: You can go to Whiterun D: ?

{{Trail|Places}}
The world of [[AR:Arena|Arena]] contains several important '''places'''. Every location except those from the [[AR:Main Quest|main quest]] (those listed below, plus the Imperial Dungeons) is generated randomly when you first enter it. Thus, every newly started game is different, and maps or walkthroughs cannot be provided for any randomly generated locations. In total, there are more than four hundred cities and dungeons, plus their surroundings and "outside" dungeons.

==Main Quest Locations==
*[[Arena:Black Gate|Black Gate]]
*[[Arena:Crypt of Hearts|Crypt of Hearts]]
*[[Arena:Crystal Tower|Crystal Tower]]
*[[Arena:Dagoth-Ur|Dagoth-Ur]]
*[[Arena:Elden Grove|Elden Grove]]
*[[Arena:Fang Lair|Fang Lair]]
*[[Arena:Fortress of Ice|Fortress of Ice]]
*[[Arena:The Halls of Colossus|The Halls of Colossus]]
*[[Arena:Escape From Prison|Imperial Dungeons]]
*[[Arena:The Imperial Palace|The Imperial Palace]]
*[[Arena:Labyrinthian|Labyrinthian]]
*[[Arena:Mines of Khuras|Mines of Khuras]]
*[[Arena:Murkwood|Murkwood]]
*[[Arena:Rihad Palace|Rihad Palace]]
*[[Arena:Selene's Web|Selene's Web]]
*[[Arena:Stonekeep|Stonekeep]]
*[[Arena:Temple of Agamanus|Temple of Agamanus]]
*[[Arena:Temple of Mad God|Temple of Mad God]]
*[[Arena:Vaults of Gemin|Vaults of Gemin]]

==Starting Cities==
There are eight cities in each of the eight provinces in which you can start after leaving the Imperial Dungeons. They are as follows:
{|
![[Arena:Black Marsh|Black Marsh]]!![[Arena:Elsweyr|Elsweyr]]!![[Arena:Hammerfell|Hammerfell]]!![[Arena:High Rock|High Rock]]!![[Arena:Morrowind|Morrowind]]!![[Arena:Skyrim|Skyrim]]!![[Arena:Summurset Isle|Summurset Isle]]!![[Arena:Valenwood|Valenwood]]
|-
|
*[[Arena:Archon|Archon]]
*[[Arena:Blackrose|Blackrose]]
*[[Arena:Gideon|Gideon]]
*[[Arena:Helstrom|Helstrom]]
*[[Arena:Lilmoth|Lilmoth]]
*[[Arena:Soulrest|Soulrest]]
*[[Arena:Stormhold|Stormhold]]
*[[Arena:Thorn|Thorn]]
|
*[[Arena:Alabaster|Alabaster]]
*[[Arena:Corinthe|Corinthe]]
*[[Arena:Dune|Dune]]
*[[Arena:Orcrest|Orcrest]]
*[[Arena:Rimmen|Rimmen]]
*[[Arena:Riverhold|Riverhold]]
*[[Arena:Senchal|Senchal]]
*[[Arena:Torval|Torval]]
|
*[[Arena:Dragonstar|Dragonstar]]
*[[Arena:Elinhir|Elinhir]]
*[[Arena:Gilane|Gilane]]
*[[Arena:Hegathe|Hegathe]]
*[[Arena:Rihad Palace|Rihad]]
*[[Arena:Sentinel|Sentinel]]
*[[Arena:Skaven|Skaven]]
*[[Arena:Taneth|Taneth]]
|
*[[Arena:Camlorn|Camlorn]]
*[[Arena:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]]
*[[Arena:Evermore|Evermore]]
*[[Arena:Farrun|Farrun]]
*[[Arena:Jehanna|Jehanna]]
*[[Arena:North Point|North Point]]
*[[Arena:Shornhelm|Shornhelm]]
*[[Arena:Wayrest|Wayrest]]
|
*[[Arena:Blacklight|Blacklight]]
*[[Arena:Ebonheart|Ebonheart]]
*[[Arena:Firewatch|Firewatch]]
*[[Arena:Kragenmoor|Kragenmoor]]
*[[Arena:Mournhold|Mournhold]]
*[[Arena:Narsis|Narsis]]
*[[Arena:Necrom|Necrom]]
*[[Arena:Tear|Tear]]
|
*[[Arena:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]]
*[[Arena:Falkreath|Falkreath]]
*[[Arena:Riften|Riften]]
*[[Arena:Snowhawk|Snowhawk]]
*[[Arena:Solitude|Solitude]]
*[[Arena:Whiterun|Whiterun]]
*[[Arena:Windhelm|Windhelm]]
*[[Arena:Winterhold|Winterhold]]
|
*[[Arena:Alinor|Alinor]]
*[[Arena:Cloudrest|Cloudrest]]
*[[Arena:Dusk|Dusk]]
*[[Arena:Firsthold|Firsthold]]
*[[Arena:Lillandril|Lillandril]]
*[[Arena:Shimerene|Shimerene]]
*[[Arena:Skywatch|Skywatch]]
*[[Arena:Sunhold|Sunhold]]
|
*[[Arena:Arenthia|Arenthia]]
*[[Arena:Eldenroot|Eldenroot]]
*[[Arena:Falinesti|Falinesti]]
*[[Arena:Greenheart|Greenheart]]
*[[Arena:Haven|Haven]]
*[[Arena:Silvenar|Silvenar]]
*[[Arena:South Point|South Point]]
*[[Arena:Woodhearth|Woodhearth]]
|}
{{stub}}

Skyrim:Hearthfire

2013-04-10T22:18:12Z

Kimi the Elf: available in different languages now

{{protection|semi}}{{Mod Header|Hearthfire}}{{Trail|Official_Plug-Ins}} {{Mod Summary
|image=SR-cover-Hearthfire.jpg
|size=140 MB (PC) / 75.8 MB (Xbox) / 84.7 MB (PS3)
|pc=Available from [http://store.steampowered.com/app/220760/ Steam] ($4.99/€4.99/£3.49/$6.29 AUD)
|ps3=Available from the Playstation Store (¥600)
|xbox=Available from [http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-Hearthfire/f93460e0-8f2d-4ca4-967d-2b4890c4e1d4 Xbox Marketplace] (400 MS Points)
|patch=Xbox: [[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.7.13.0.6|1.7.13.0.6]]
|imgdesc=Hearthfire cover image
}}{{Save Named Values
|icon|SR-icon-Hearthfire.png
|iconSize|40px
}}__NOTOC__ [[Category:Skyrim-Hearthfire]]
'''Hearthfire''' is the second major [[Skyrim:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]] for [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]]. The add-on allows the player to [[Skyrim:Construction|build]] (from scratch) up to three unique homes. The add-on also introduces [[Skyrim:Adoption|adoption]], allowing the player to adopt orphaned children.

:''With this official add-on to The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, you can purchase land and build your own home from the ground up - from a simple one-room cottage to a sprawling compound complete with an armory, alchemy laboratory, stable, garden, and more. Use all-new tools like the drafting table and carpenter's workbench to transform quarried stone, clay, and sawn logs into structures and furnishings. Even transform your house into a home by adopting children.'' —[http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-Hearthfire/f93460e0-8f2d-4ca4-967d-2b4890c4e1d4 Official Summary]
{{NewLeft}}

==Gameplay Information==
{{Bullet Link|Hearthfire Items|New items added by the plug-in, including apparel, books, building materials, weapons, and more.}}
{{Bullet Link|Hearthfire Creatures |New creatures added by the plug-in.}}
{{Bullet Link|Hearthfire NPCs|New NPCs added by the plug-in.}}
{{Bullet Link|Construction|Details on building your home.}}
*'''[[:Category:Skyrim-Hearthfire-Furnishing Options|Furnishing Options]]''' — A list of pages detailing the furnishing options for each part of your home.

==Features==
[[File:SR-place-Lakeview Manor 13.jpg|thumb|right|A house built by the player in Falkreath Hold]]
*Ability to build and customize your own house.
**You must purchase the land and use raw materials at a drafting table and carpenter's workbench to create rooms and furniture for your house.
**Equip your home with [[Skyrim:Arcane Enchanters|arcane enchanters]], armories, [[Skyrim:Forge|forges]], gardens, libraries, [[Skyrim:Shrines|shrines]], stables, taxidermy, and more.
**Three plots of land are available for purchase, in [[Skyrim:Falkreath_Hold|Falkreath Hold]], [[Skyrim:Hjaalmarch|Hjaalmarch]], and [[Skyrim:The Pale|the Pale]].
**The structure of each house consists of [[Skyrim:Quarried_Stone|stone]], [[Skyrim:Clay|clay]], and [[Skyrim:Sawn_Log|wood]].
*Ability to [[Skyrim:Child#Adoption|adopt]] up to two children, who will move into your house.
**Interact and play games to raise your new family.
**Allow your child to keep a pet after it follows them home. Some [[Skyrim:Followers#Creatures|creature followers]] can also be kept as a pet.
**If you wish to adopt children without moving into a new home, you may add a child's bedroom to an already [[Skyrim:Houses|purchased home]] in a major city.

*Ability to hire staff:
**Turn [[Skyrim:Followers|followers]] into [[Skyrim:Personal Steward|stewards]], who can supply you with housebuilding materials, furnishings, and staff.
**A [[Skyrim:Transport#Carriage|carriage driver]] who can take you to small [[Skyrim:Settlements|settlements]] as well as major [[Skyrim:Cities|cities]].
**A personal [[Skyrim:Bardic_Performances|bard]] to perform at your home.
*New activities, such as [[Skyrim:Baking|baking]], beekeeping, [[Skyrim:Greenhouse#Food and Ingredients|farming]], and fishing.
*Requirement to protect your house from various enemies such as [[SR:Bandit|bandits]], [[Skyrim:Dragon|dragons]], [[Skyrim:Giant|giants]], [[Skyrim:Skeever|skeevers]], and more.

==Available Houses==
All three of the new pieces of property can be purchased for 5000 gold.
{{Bullet Link|Heljarchen Hall|Located in [[Skyrim:The_Pale|the Pale]], this plot of land may be purchased from the [[Skyrim:Jarl|Jarl]] of [[Skyrim:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]] in [[Skyrim:The_White_Hall|the White Hall]]. You will have to complete the quest [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]], and then the favor quest [[Skyrim:Kill the Giant (Jarl)|Kill the Giant]] before being allowed to purchase the property if Skald is still jarl. (Note: This favor has a prerequisite of being level 22.) If you are [[Skyrim:Thane|thane]] of the hold, you will be appointed a [[Skyrim:Housecarl|housecarl]] named [[Skyrim:Gregor|Gregor]].}} It is located in the south of the Pale, not far north of Whiterun; the closest landmarks are the Tower of Mzark, Loreius Farm and Blizzard Rest.
{{Bullet Link|Lakeview Manor|Located in [[Skyrim:Falkreath_Hold|Falkreath Hold]], this plot of land may be purchased from the [[Skyrim:Steward|steward]] of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]] in the [[Skyrim:Jarl's_Longhouse (Falkreath)|Jarl's Longhouse]]. You will have to complete the quest [[Skyrim:Kill_the_Bandit_Leader_(Jarl)|Kill the Bandit Leader]] before being allowed to purchase the property if Siddgeir is still jarl. If you are thane of the hold, you will be appointed a housecarl named [[Skyrim:Rayya|Rayya]].}} It is located directly north of Pinewatch and very close by.
{{Bullet Link|Windstad Manor|Located in [[Skyrim:Hjaalmarch|Hjaalmarch]], this plot of land may be purchased from the steward of [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]] at [[Skyrim:Highmoon Hall|Highmoon Hall]]. You will have to complete the quest [[Skyrim:Laid_to_Rest|Laid to Rest]] before being allowed to purchase the property if Idgrod is still jarl. If you are thane of the hold, you will be appointed a housecarl named [[Skyrim:Valdimar|Valdimar]].}} It is located in the north of the hold, not far south of Solitude; the closest landmarks are Ustengrav and the Abandoned Shack.

==Notes==
* Five new achievements can be earned after installing Hearthfire, listed on [[Skyrim:Achievements#Hearthfire|this page]].
* Four new loading screens are added after installing Hearthfire, listed on [[Skyrim:Loading_Screens#Special|this page]].
* Hearthfire was subject to a 30 day exclusivity deal with Microsoft, where it was only available on the Xbox 360. As it turned out, it was released for the PC after 30 days, but due to severe performance issues, it wasn't until February 2013 that it was released for the PS3.

==Bugs==
{{Bug|The option to replace the alchemy laboratory for [[Skyrim:Breezehome|Breezehome]] with a child's bedroom may not disappear after being purchased, and the change will not take place.|UHFP|1.0|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Mannequins may experience duplication issues, regardless of which plot of land the home is built on.|UHFP|1.0.1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Sleeping in beds will not grant the [[Skyrim:Sleeping|Well Rested]] bonus, although if you have a spouse and/or children they will confer the [[Skyrim:Sleeping|Lover's Comfort]] and [[Skyrim:Sleeping|Mother's/Father's Love]] bonuses.|UHFP|1.0.1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|A cooking pot in [[Skyrim:Proudspire Manor|Proudspire Manor]] was removed.|UHFP|1.0.1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Mannequins will occasionally be displaced from their pedestals.|UHFP|1.0.3|dlc=HF}}
**This can be fixed by placing an item on the mannequin. It can then be taken off, and the mannequin will remain in place.
{{Bug|When placing items in rooms, sometimes items that you've already created appear available on the workbench, and you can attempt to remake them (taking resources to do so), but will get nothing new.|confirmed=1|dlc=HF}}
** Exiting the menu may resolve this.
{{Bug|Display cases are not the same as the ones in [[Skyrim:Hjerim|Hjerim]] and other houses, so they do not allow you the "place weapon" option. Pointing at it with the crosshairs only allow the "open case" option.|confirmed=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Crafting items, such as [[Skyrim:Glass (item)|glass]], [[Skyrim:Goat_Horns|goat horns]], and [[Skyrim:Straw|straw]], may disappear from general merchants' inventory completely.|confirmed=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Objects in some rooms may fail to render at certain camera angles if you have built a large percentage of the improvements for that room. They're still there, but just invisible.|confirmed=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Your stewards, housecarls, followers, and children may all prefer to sleep in your master bed, leaving your spouse to sleep in the kids' room.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Even if you have a pickaxe in your inventory, you may be unable to interact with the stone quarry or clay deposit.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|When firing your bard they may not leave but stop playing and hang around your house.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Some NPCs may not display their clothing.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Huskies and death hounds may vanish from the house after becoming pets and will not show up at their original areas.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Using the [[Skyrim:Forge|forge]] at your home may cause the [[Skyrim:Grindstone|grindstones]] and [[Skyrim:Workbench|workbenches]] to become unusable.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
**Reloading a save prior to using the forge will solve this.
{{Bug|The containers in the houses will not show stolen items in red, like all other containers. The only way to tell if an item in a container is stolen is to take it. It will show the usual marker in the inventory menu.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Weapon and shield plaques sometimes cannot be interacted with, although items can be taken from them if there.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Dropping items from your inventory in some of the rooms will sometimes result in them disappearing completely. |vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|All areas of the player-built homes may sometimes reset to their original furnishings. Items on tables and shelves and on top of other containers will respawn, displacing player-placed items. Items such as books, plates, decorations and all other clutter that was part of the original furnishings will reappear. However, containers do not reset, so storage continues to be safe.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}

==See Also==
*[http://www.bethblog.com/2012/08/28/hearthfire-coming-to-xbox-live-on-september-4th/ Official Trailer]
*[[Skyrim:Pre-Release Content#Hearthfire Screenshots|Pre-Release Screenshots]]
*[http://www.bethsoft.com/en-gb/games/hearthfire Hearthfire on the Official Bethesda site]

Skyrim:Hearthfire

2013-04-10T22:16:08Z

Kimi the Elf: Steam lists japanese prices using the US$

{{protection|semi}}{{Mod Header|Hearthfire}}{{Trail|Official_Plug-Ins}} {{Mod Summary
|image=SR-cover-Hearthfire.jpg
|size=140 MB (PC) / 75.8 MB (Xbox) / 84.7 MB (PS3)
|pc=Available from [http://store.steampowered.com/app/220760/ Steam] ($4.99/€4.99/£3.49/$6.29 AUD)
|ps3=Available in the US and English speaking European territories (¥600)
|xbox=Available from [http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-Hearthfire/f93460e0-8f2d-4ca4-967d-2b4890c4e1d4 Xbox Marketplace] (400 MS Points)
|patch=Xbox: [[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.7.13.0.6|1.7.13.0.6]]
|imgdesc=Hearthfire cover image
}}{{Save Named Values
|icon|SR-icon-Hearthfire.png
|iconSize|40px
}}__NOTOC__ [[Category:Skyrim-Hearthfire]]
'''Hearthfire''' is the second major [[Skyrim:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]] for [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]]. The add-on allows the player to [[Skyrim:Construction|build]] (from scratch) up to three unique homes. The add-on also introduces [[Skyrim:Adoption|adoption]], allowing the player to adopt orphaned children.

:''With this official add-on to The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, you can purchase land and build your own home from the ground up - from a simple one-room cottage to a sprawling compound complete with an armory, alchemy laboratory, stable, garden, and more. Use all-new tools like the drafting table and carpenter's workbench to transform quarried stone, clay, and sawn logs into structures and furnishings. Even transform your house into a home by adopting children.'' —[http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-Hearthfire/f93460e0-8f2d-4ca4-967d-2b4890c4e1d4 Official Summary]
{{NewLeft}}

==Gameplay Information==
{{Bullet Link|Hearthfire Items|New items added by the plug-in, including apparel, books, building materials, weapons, and more.}}
{{Bullet Link|Hearthfire Creatures |New creatures added by the plug-in.}}
{{Bullet Link|Hearthfire NPCs|New NPCs added by the plug-in.}}
{{Bullet Link|Construction|Details on building your home.}}
*'''[[:Category:Skyrim-Hearthfire-Furnishing Options|Furnishing Options]]''' — A list of pages detailing the furnishing options for each part of your home.

==Features==
[[File:SR-place-Lakeview Manor 13.jpg|thumb|right|A house built by the player in Falkreath Hold]]
*Ability to build and customize your own house.
**You must purchase the land and use raw materials at a drafting table and carpenter's workbench to create rooms and furniture for your house.
**Equip your home with [[Skyrim:Arcane Enchanters|arcane enchanters]], armories, [[Skyrim:Forge|forges]], gardens, libraries, [[Skyrim:Shrines|shrines]], stables, taxidermy, and more.
**Three plots of land are available for purchase, in [[Skyrim:Falkreath_Hold|Falkreath Hold]], [[Skyrim:Hjaalmarch|Hjaalmarch]], and [[Skyrim:The Pale|the Pale]].
**The structure of each house consists of [[Skyrim:Quarried_Stone|stone]], [[Skyrim:Clay|clay]], and [[Skyrim:Sawn_Log|wood]].
*Ability to [[Skyrim:Child#Adoption|adopt]] up to two children, who will move into your house.
**Interact and play games to raise your new family.
**Allow your child to keep a pet after it follows them home. Some [[Skyrim:Followers#Creatures|creature followers]] can also be kept as a pet.
**If you wish to adopt children without moving into a new home, you may add a child's bedroom to an already [[Skyrim:Houses|purchased home]] in a major city.

*Ability to hire staff:
**Turn [[Skyrim:Followers|followers]] into [[Skyrim:Personal Steward|stewards]], who can supply you with housebuilding materials, furnishings, and staff.
**A [[Skyrim:Transport#Carriage|carriage driver]] who can take you to small [[Skyrim:Settlements|settlements]] as well as major [[Skyrim:Cities|cities]].
**A personal [[Skyrim:Bardic_Performances|bard]] to perform at your home.
*New activities, such as [[Skyrim:Baking|baking]], beekeeping, [[Skyrim:Greenhouse#Food and Ingredients|farming]], and fishing.
*Requirement to protect your house from various enemies such as [[SR:Bandit|bandits]], [[Skyrim:Dragon|dragons]], [[Skyrim:Giant|giants]], [[Skyrim:Skeever|skeevers]], and more.

==Available Houses==
All three of the new pieces of property can be purchased for 5000 gold.
{{Bullet Link|Heljarchen Hall|Located in [[Skyrim:The_Pale|the Pale]], this plot of land may be purchased from the [[Skyrim:Jarl|Jarl]] of [[Skyrim:Dawnstar|Dawnstar]] in [[Skyrim:The_White_Hall|the White Hall]]. You will have to complete the quest [[Skyrim:Waking_Nightmare|Waking Nightmare]], and then the favor quest [[Skyrim:Kill the Giant (Jarl)|Kill the Giant]] before being allowed to purchase the property if Skald is still jarl. (Note: This favor has a prerequisite of being level 22.) If you are [[Skyrim:Thane|thane]] of the hold, you will be appointed a [[Skyrim:Housecarl|housecarl]] named [[Skyrim:Gregor|Gregor]].}} It is located in the south of the Pale, not far north of Whiterun; the closest landmarks are the Tower of Mzark, Loreius Farm and Blizzard Rest.
{{Bullet Link|Lakeview Manor|Located in [[Skyrim:Falkreath_Hold|Falkreath Hold]], this plot of land may be purchased from the [[Skyrim:Steward|steward]] of [[Skyrim:Falkreath|Falkreath]] in the [[Skyrim:Jarl's_Longhouse (Falkreath)|Jarl's Longhouse]]. You will have to complete the quest [[Skyrim:Kill_the_Bandit_Leader_(Jarl)|Kill the Bandit Leader]] before being allowed to purchase the property if Siddgeir is still jarl. If you are thane of the hold, you will be appointed a housecarl named [[Skyrim:Rayya|Rayya]].}} It is located directly north of Pinewatch and very close by.
{{Bullet Link|Windstad Manor|Located in [[Skyrim:Hjaalmarch|Hjaalmarch]], this plot of land may be purchased from the steward of [[Skyrim:Morthal|Morthal]] at [[Skyrim:Highmoon Hall|Highmoon Hall]]. You will have to complete the quest [[Skyrim:Laid_to_Rest|Laid to Rest]] before being allowed to purchase the property if Idgrod is still jarl. If you are thane of the hold, you will be appointed a housecarl named [[Skyrim:Valdimar|Valdimar]].}} It is located in the north of the hold, not far south of Solitude; the closest landmarks are Ustengrav and the Abandoned Shack.

==Notes==
* Five new achievements can be earned after installing Hearthfire, listed on [[Skyrim:Achievements#Hearthfire|this page]].
* Four new loading screens are added after installing Hearthfire, listed on [[Skyrim:Loading_Screens#Special|this page]].
* Hearthfire was subject to a 30 day exclusivity deal with Microsoft, where it was only available on the Xbox 360. As it turned out, it was released for the PC after 30 days, but due to severe performance issues, it wasn't until February 2013 that it was released for the PS3.

==Bugs==
{{Bug|The option to replace the alchemy laboratory for [[Skyrim:Breezehome|Breezehome]] with a child's bedroom may not disappear after being purchased, and the change will not take place.|UHFP|1.0|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Mannequins may experience duplication issues, regardless of which plot of land the home is built on.|UHFP|1.0.1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Sleeping in beds will not grant the [[Skyrim:Sleeping|Well Rested]] bonus, although if you have a spouse and/or children they will confer the [[Skyrim:Sleeping|Lover's Comfort]] and [[Skyrim:Sleeping|Mother's/Father's Love]] bonuses.|UHFP|1.0.1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|A cooking pot in [[Skyrim:Proudspire Manor|Proudspire Manor]] was removed.|UHFP|1.0.1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Mannequins will occasionally be displaced from their pedestals.|UHFP|1.0.3|dlc=HF}}
**This can be fixed by placing an item on the mannequin. It can then be taken off, and the mannequin will remain in place.
{{Bug|When placing items in rooms, sometimes items that you've already created appear available on the workbench, and you can attempt to remake them (taking resources to do so), but will get nothing new.|confirmed=1|dlc=HF}}
** Exiting the menu may resolve this.
{{Bug|Display cases are not the same as the ones in [[Skyrim:Hjerim|Hjerim]] and other houses, so they do not allow you the "place weapon" option. Pointing at it with the crosshairs only allow the "open case" option.|confirmed=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Crafting items, such as [[Skyrim:Glass (item)|glass]], [[Skyrim:Goat_Horns|goat horns]], and [[Skyrim:Straw|straw]], may disappear from general merchants' inventory completely.|confirmed=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Objects in some rooms may fail to render at certain camera angles if you have built a large percentage of the improvements for that room. They're still there, but just invisible.|confirmed=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Your stewards, housecarls, followers, and children may all prefer to sleep in your master bed, leaving your spouse to sleep in the kids' room.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Even if you have a pickaxe in your inventory, you may be unable to interact with the stone quarry or clay deposit.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|When firing your bard they may not leave but stop playing and hang around your house.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Some NPCs may not display their clothing.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Huskies and death hounds may vanish from the house after becoming pets and will not show up at their original areas.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Using the [[Skyrim:Forge|forge]] at your home may cause the [[Skyrim:Grindstone|grindstones]] and [[Skyrim:Workbench|workbenches]] to become unusable.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
**Reloading a save prior to using the forge will solve this.
{{Bug|The containers in the houses will not show stolen items in red, like all other containers. The only way to tell if an item in a container is stolen is to take it. It will show the usual marker in the inventory menu.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Weapon and shield plaques sometimes cannot be interacted with, although items can be taken from them if there.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|Dropping items from your inventory in some of the rooms will sometimes result in them disappearing completely. |vn=1|dlc=HF}}
{{Bug|All areas of the player-built homes may sometimes reset to their original furnishings. Items on tables and shelves and on top of other containers will respawn, displacing player-placed items. Items such as books, plates, decorations and all other clutter that was part of the original furnishings will reappear. However, containers do not reset, so storage continues to be safe.|vn=1|dlc=HF}}

==See Also==
*[http://www.bethblog.com/2012/08/28/hearthfire-coming-to-xbox-live-on-september-4th/ Official Trailer]
*[[Skyrim:Pre-Release Content#Hearthfire Screenshots|Pre-Release Screenshots]]
*[http://www.bethsoft.com/en-gb/games/hearthfire Hearthfire on the Official Bethesda site]

Skyrim:Dawnguard

2013-04-10T22:14:35Z

Kimi the Elf: Steam lists japanese prices using the US$

{{protection|semi}}{{Mod Header|Dawnguard}}{{Trail|Official_Plug-Ins}}{{Mod Summary
|image=SR-cover-Dawnguard.jpg
|size=1.12 GB (PC) / 583.12 MB (Xbox) / 667 MB (PS3)
|pc=Available from [http://store.steampowered.com/app/211720/ Steam] ($19.99/€19.99/£13.99/$24.23 AUD/429 RUB)
|ps3=Available from the Playstation Store ($20/$25 AUD/¥2400)
|xbox= Available from [http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-Dawnguard/8ab49c69-b2d8-4055-99c8-a941655f5de8 Xbox Marketplace] (1600 MS Points)
|patch=[[Skyrim:Patch#Version 1.6.90.0.6|1.6.90.0.6]]
|imgdesc=The image that was the centerpiece of the announcement of Dawnguard
}}__NOTOC__
[[File:SR-cover-Dawnguard Box Art.jpg|thumb|Dawnguard box art]]
'''Dawnguard''' is the first major [[Skyrim:Official Plug-ins|official plug-in]] for [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]]. The add-on revolves around the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard (faction)|Dawnguard]], an ancient organization dedicated to hunting [[Skyrim:Vampire|vampires]] and thwarting the schemes of [[Skyrim:Lord Harkon|Lord Harkon]], who intends to use an [[Lore:Elder Scrolls|Elder Scroll]] to permanently blot out the sun. The player can choose to aid the Dawnguard in their quest to destroy the vampires, or join the vampire clan and gain the powers of a [[Skyrim:Vampire Lord|Vampire Lord]].

:''Dawnguard™ is the first official game add-on for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim® - the 2011 Game of the Year. The Vampire Lord Harkon has returned to power. By using the Elder Scrolls, he seeks to do the unthinkable - to end the sun itself. Will you join the ancient order of the Dawnguard and stop him? Or will you become a Vampire Lord yourself? Featuring an all new faction questline and locations, the ultimate choice will be yours.''—[http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-Dawnguard/8ab49c69-b2d8-4055-99c8-a941655f5de8 Official Summary]
{{NewLeft}}

==Gameplay Information==
{{Bullet Link|Dawnguard Creatures|Of the creatures added by the plug-in, most are new variants of creatures already present in the original version of the game. A few creatures added are entirely new types, and there are several unique creatures added as well.}}
{{Bullet Link|Dawnguard Items|New items added by the plug-in include apparel, armor, books, jewelry, weapons, and more.}}
{{Bullet Link|Dawnguard Magic|Three new [[Skyrim:Blessings|blessings]], four new [[Skyrim:Dragon_Shouts|dragon shouts]] (only three of which are player-accessible), and nine new [[Skyrim:Spells|spells]] are added by the plug-in. In addition, new features have been added to [[Skyrim:Lycanthropy|Lycanthropy]] and general [[Skyrim:Vampirism|Vampirism]], while the [[Skyrim:Vampire_Lord|Vampire Lord]] form is entirely new.}}
{{Bullet Link|Dawnguard NPCs|Over 80 new NPCs have been added by the plug-in, many of which are aligned with one of the two new major factions. Some can be found at their main location immediately after installing the plug-in, while others can only be encountered during certain quests.}}
{{Bullet Link|Dawnguard Places|24 new places have been added by the plug-in, though none appear on the map immediately. Some places may not be entered until the related quests have been started, and many quests will send the player to places that already existed in the original version of the game.}}
{{Bullet Link|Dawnguard Quests|39 quests have been added by the plug-in, with both a main questline and multiple side quests. There is no quest immediately added to the quest journal when you first install the plug-in.}}

==Factions==
Two new [[Skyrim:Factions|factions]] are added with this plug-in:

'''[[Skyrim:Dawnguard_(faction)|The Dawnguard]]''' — A group of [[Skyrim:Vampire|vampire]] hunters dedicated to destroying the Volkihar vampire clan.
*All players who complete the first quest in the plug-in's [[Skyrim:Dawnguard Quests#Main Quests|main questline]] must help this faction initially.
*Membership in this faction allows you to freely enter and use all areas within [[Skyrim:Fort_Dawnguard|Fort Dawnguard]].

'''[[Skyrim:Volkihar_Vampire_Clan|Volkihar Vampire Clan]]''' — The Volkihar vampire clan, led by [[Skyrim:Lord_Harkon|Lord Harkon]], intends to blot out the sun and dominate Skyrim.
*Players may choose to join this faction during the plug-in's main questline, or destroy the faction altogether.
*Membership in this faction allows you to freely enter and use all areas within [[Skyrim:Volkihar_Keep|Volkihar Keep]].

==Notes==
* Ten new achievements can be earned after installing the Dawnguard plug-in, listed on [[Skyrim:Achievements#Dawnguard|this page]].
* Eighteen new [[Skyrim:Loading_Screens|loading screens]] were added by the plug-in.
* Several new [[Skyrim:World_Interactions|world interactions]] are added by the plug-in which do not have their own individual article pages.
* Dawnguard was subject to a 30 day exclusivity deal with Microsoft, where it was only available on the Xbox 360. As it turned out, it was released for the PC after 36 days, and due to severe performance issues, it was February 2013 before it was released for the PS3.

==Bugs==
{{Bug|The [[Skyrim:Alchemy_Lab|alchemy lab]] in [[Skyrim:Breezehome|Breezehome]] may become unpurchasable, or may not appear after it has been purchased.|UDGP|1.0|dlc=DG}}
**[[Skyrim:Hearthfire|Hearthfire]] inadvertently fixes this by resetting the steward's dialogue to include the children's room.
**{{Pc22}} This may be fixed via the console by entering <code>"e4ef9".disable</code> followed by <code>"e4ec8".enable</code> .
{{Bug|NPC and player hair may glitch, change color, or even disappear. Restarting the console seems to fix this.|vn=1|dlc=DG}}
{{Bug|Dragon souls may not unlock new shouts, even if the player has more than one dragon soul.|vn=1|dlc=DG}}

==See Also==
*[http://www.bethblog.com/2012/05/31/dawnguard-trailer/ Official Trailer]
*'''[[Skyrim:Pre-Release_Content#Dawnguard_Screenshots|Pre-Release Screenshots]]'''
{{Save Named Values
|icon|SR-icon-Dawnguard 02.png
|iconSize|40px
}} [[Category:Skyrim-Dawnguard]]

Lore:Heart Stone

2013-04-10T21:00:22Z

Kimi the Elf: link

<noinclude>{{Trail}}__NOTOC__</noinclude>
A {{Lore Link|Heart Stone}} is a unusual type of ore mined from deposits which appeared in {{Lore Link|Solstheim}} in the {{Lore Link|Fourth Era}}.{{ref|name=Dragonborn|Events of [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}} It's suspected that the deposits surfaced during the cataclysms of the {{Lore Link|Red Year}}; Master {{Lore Link|Neloth}} of {{Lore Link|House Telvanni}} suspected that the material came from {{Lore Link|Red Mountain}} and was flung along with other materials to Solstheim during its eruption.{{ref|name=TF|[[DB:Talvas Fathryon|Talvas Fathryon's]] dialogue in [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}}{{ref|name=TRY|{{Cite book|The Red Year}}}} Even two centuries later, they still smolder with the heat of the mountain. These are the molten rocks that lay next to the {{Lore Link|Heart of Lorkhan}} for millennia, and some vestige of its power has seeped into them. Heart stones sometimes raise {{Lore Link|Ash Spawn}} from the bits of bone buried in the nearby ash.{{ref|name=Neloth|[[DB:Neloth|Neloth's]] dialogue in [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}} Through trial and error, one of his apprentices learned that a stone was needed to prevent an {{Lore Link|Ash Guardian|ash guardian}} summoned through {{Lore Link|Conjuration}} from attacking the caster. The stones can also be used for the enchanting purposes. {{Lore Link|Ildari Sarothril}}, a different apprentice of Neloth's, was killed during an experiment but was brought back to life when one of these stones was grafted to her. Ildari learned that a stone could be used to prevent {{Lore Link|Necromancy|necromantic}} spells from wearing off.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}}<noinclude>

===Gallery===
<gallery>
File:DB-icon-misc-Heart Stone.png
File:DB-item-Heart Stone Deposit.jpg
</gallery>

==See Also==
* For game-specific information, see the [[Dragonborn:Heart Stone|Dragonborn article]].

==References==
<references/></noinclude>

Lore:Heart Stone

2013-04-10T20:38:20Z

Kimi the Elf: Information from Neloth's dialogue

<noinclude>{{Trail}}__NOTOC__</noinclude>
A {{Lore Link|Heart Stone}} is a unusual type of ore mined from deposits which appeared in {{Lore Link|Solstheim}} in the {{Lore Link|Fourth Era}}.{{ref|name=Dragonborn|Events of [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}} It's suspected that the deposits surfaced during the cataclysms of the {{Lore Link|Red Year}}; Master {{Lore Link|Neloth}} of {{Lore Link|House Telvanni}} suspected that the material came from {{Lore Link|Red Mountain}} and was flung along with other materials to Solstheim during its eruption.{{ref|name=TF|[[DB:Talvas Fathryon|Talvas Fathryon's]] dialogue in [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}}{{ref|name=TRY|{{Cite book|The Red Year}}}} Even two centuries later, they still smolder with the heat of the mountain. These are the molten rocks that lay next to the {{Lore Link|Heart of Lorkhan}} for millennia, and some vestige of its power has seeped into them. Heart stones sometimes raise ash spawn from the bits of bone buried in the nearby ash.{{ref|name=Neloth|[[DB:Neloth|Neloth's]] dialogue in [[DB:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]].}} Through trial and error, one of his apprentices learned that a stone was needed to prevent an {{Lore Link|Ash Guardian|ash guardian}} summoned through {{Lore Link|Conjuration}} from attacking the caster.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}} The stones can also be used for the enchanting purposes.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}} {{Lore Link|Ildari Sarothril}}, a different apprentice of Neloth's, was killed during an experiment but was brought back to life when one of these stones was grafted to her.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}} Ildari learned that a stone could be used to prevent {{Lore Link|Necromancy|necromantic}} spells from wearing off.{{ref|name=Dragonborn}}<noinclude>

===Gallery===
<gallery>
File:DB-icon-misc-Heart Stone.png
File:DB-item-Heart Stone Deposit.jpg
</gallery>

==See Also==
* For game-specific information, see the [[Dragonborn:Heart Stone|Dragonborn article]].

==References==
<references/></noinclude>

User talk:Kimi the Elf

2013-04-10T18:10:22Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Arrovan */ reply

Lore:Nord Names

2013-04-10T01:01:39Z

Kimi the Elf: /* Skyrim */ better link

{{Lore Names}}
{{Lore:Appendices}}
{{trail|Appendices|Names|nocat=y}}
This is a list of all the known '''[[Lore:Nord|Nord]] names''', compiled from the games by frequency.

==Male Nord Names==
===[[Arena:Arena|Arena]] and [[Daggerfall:Daggerfall|Daggerfall]]===
*Given names for male Nord in Arena and Daggerfall seem to consist of one of thirteen prefixes and one of thirteen suffixes.
*The 13 prefixes for male Nord names are: Al, Asg, Bj, Er, Fenr, Har, Ingm, Jurg, Kj, Moj, Sor, Torb, Ulr
*The 13 suffixes for male Nord names are: ald, an, ar, arik, arke, arne, eld, en, ens, er, ik, is, orn

'''Therefore, all of the male Nord names in Arena and Daggerfall are:'''
{|
|Alald,||Alan,||Alar,||Alarik,||Alarke,||Alarne,||Aleld,||Alen,||Alens,||Aler,||Alik,||Alis,||Alorn,
|-
|Asgald,||Asgan,||Asgar,||Asgarik,||Asgarke,||Asgarne,||Asgeld,||Asgen,||Asgens,||Asger,||Asgik,||Asgis,||Asgorn,
|-
|Bjald,||Bjan,||Bjar,||Bjarik,||Bjarke,||Bjarne,||Bjeld,||Bjen,||Bjens,||Bjer,||Bjik,||Bjis,||Bjorn,
|-
|Erald,||Eran,||Erar,||Erarik,||Erarke,||Erarne,||Ereld,||Eren,||Erens,||Erer,||Erik,||Eris,||Erorn,
|-
|Fenrald,||Fenran,||Fenrar,||Fenrarik,||Fenrarke,||Fenrarne,||Fenreld,||Fenren,||Fenrens,||Fenrer,||Fenrik,||Fenris,||Fenrorn,
|-
|Harald,||Haran,||Harar,||Hararik,||Hararke,||Hararne,||Hareld,||Haren,||Harens,||Harer,||Harik,||Haris,||Harorn,
|-
|Ingmald,||Ingman,||Ingmar,||Ingmarik,||Ingmarke,||Ingmarne,||Ingmeld,||Ingmen,||Ingmens,||Ingmer,||Ingmik,||Ingmis,||Ingmorn,
|-
|Jurgald,||Jurgan,||Jurgar,||Jurgarik,||Jurgarke,||Jurgarne,||Jurgeld,||Jurgen,||Jurgens,||Jurger,||Jurgik,||Jurgis,||Jurgorn,
|-
|Kjald,||Kjan,||Kjar,||Kjarik,||Kjarke,||Kjarne,||Kjeld,||Kjen,||Kjens,||Kjer,||Kjik,||Kjis,||Kjorn,
|-
|Mojald,||Mojan,||Mojar,||Mojarik,||Mojarke,||Mojarne,||Mojeld,||Mojen,||Mojens,||Mojer,||Mojik,||Mojis,||Mojorn,
|-
|Sorald,||Soran,||Sorar,||Sorarik,||Sorarke,||Sorarne,||Soreld,||Soren,||Sorens,||Sorer,||Sorik,||Soris,||Sororn,
|-
|Torbald,||Torban,||Torbar,||Torbarik,||Torbarke,||Torbarne,||Torbeld,||Torben,||Torbens,||Torber,||Torbik,||Torbis,||Torborn,
|-
|Ulrald,||Ulran,||Ulrar,||Ulrarik,||Ulrarke,||Ulrarne,||Ulreld,||Ulren,||Ulrens,||Ulrer,||Ulrik,||Ulris,||Ulrorn
|}

===Redguard===
Tobias
===Morrowind===
{{#local:ns_base|Morrowind}}
'''2x''':
Haki ({{FamilyList|flip=y|Haki||the Halt}}) 
'''1x''': {{NameList|Abbard the Wild|Adding|[[Bloodmoon:Aenar|Aenar]]|Agning|[[Bloodmoon:Alfbrand|Alfbrand]]|Alfhedil Elf-Hewer|Allding|Alof the Easterner|[[Bloodmoon:Alvring Whitebeard|Alvring]]|[[Bloodmoon:Andrelheim|Andrelheim]]|Areas|Arkming the Flayer|Arnskar|[[Bloodmoon:Audmund|Audmund]]|[[Bloodmoon:Balfring|Balfring]]|Barirrid|[[Bloodmoon:Baslod|Baslod]]|[[Bloodmoon:Bathmar Bold-Lute|Bathmar]]|Bato Veranius|[[Morrowind:Crazy Batou|Batou]]|Bedraflod|Bedrir|Bjadmund|Bormir|Botrir|[[Bloodmoon:Brandr|Brandr]]|Briring|[[Bloodmoon:Bronrod the Roarer|Bronrod]]|Brurid|[[Bloodmoon:Bryngrim|Bryngrim]]|[[Bloodmoon:Brynjolfr|Brynjolfr]]|Cristus Lync|Daglin Selarar|Dathman Mochtuis|Dryngheid|[[Bloodmoon:Eifid|Eifid]]|[[Bloodmoon:Engar Ice-Mane|Engar]]|Ennbjof|Ergnir|[[Bloodmoon:Erich the Unworthy|Erich]]|Fanar Fork-Beard|Fjol|Fjorgeir|Fjori the Stout|Fjorrod|[[Bloodmoon:Fjrokvar|Fjrokvar]]|Fjorrod|[[Tribunal:Forstaag the Sweltering|Forstaag]]|Fraki|Frald the White|Frik|Garding the Bold|[[Bloodmoon:Geilir the Mumbling|Geilir]]|Godrod Hairy-Breeks|Gogrek|[[Bloodmoon:Graring|Graring]]|Gudling the Rascal|Haakon|Haening|Haesmar|[[Bloodmoon:Hagrad the Stone|Hagrad]]|Hakar the Candle|[[Bloodmoon:Hallvaror|Hallvaror]]|Halof|Hamlof Red-tooth|Hamvir|Hefadmir|Heidmir|Heifnir|Herd|Higil|Hirnir|Hisin Deep-Raed|Hjoldir|Hjrondir|Hlar|[[Tribunal:Hloggar the Bloody|Hloggar]]|Hlora Long-Leg|Hlormar Wine-Sot|Hodlismod|Hoki|[[Tribunal:Holmar|Holmar]]|Honthjolf|Horstar Home-Wrecker|Hrargal the Crow|Hrisskar Flat-Foot|[[Bloodmoon:Hroldar the Strange|Hroldar]]|Hrondar Highlander|Hrundi|[[Tribunal:Hulgarth|Hulgarth]]|Hurg|Hurnfing|Hurolf|Hylf the Harrier|Idlami|[[Bloodmoon:Ingmar|Ingmar]]|Itar the Gentle|Jolgeir|Kjeld|Knurguri|[[Bloodmoon:Korst Wind-Eye|Korst]]|Kunthar|[[Bloodmoon:Lassnr|Lassnr]]|Lorod|Maering|Mendel Eves|Norring|Odmi|Onmi Hard-Mouth|[[Bloodmoon:Ormvard|Ormvard]]|Pelf|Radd Hard-Heart|Raflod the Braggart|Rakoslod|Ranmir the Seal|[[Bloodmoon:Reinhardt Red-Spear|Reinhardt]]|[[Bloodmoon:Rigmor Halfhand|Rigmor]]|Roggvar Blue-Tooth|[[Bloodmoon:Rolf Long-Tooth|Rolf]]|Saetring|Sarnir the Clerk|[[Bloodmoon:Sattir the Bold|Sattir]]|Savard|Sifknir|[[Bloodmoon:Sigvatr the Strong|Sigvatr]]|Sittar|Sjarnfid|Sjoring Hard-Heart|Sjorvar Horse-Mouth|[[Bloodmoon:Skjoldr Wolf-Runner|Skjoldr]]|Snadir|[[Bloodmoon:Snedbrir the Smith|Snedbrir]]|Snorri|Sold Fine-Hair|Sor|Sorkvild the Raven (person)|Star|Svog|[[Bloodmoon:Tharsten Heart-Fang|Tharsten]]|Thongar|Thorek|[[Bloodmoon:Thormoor Gray-Wave|Thormoor]]|Throknolf the Craven|[[Tribunal:Thrud|Thrud]]|Thurek|[[Bloodmoon:Toralf|Toralf]]|[[Bloodmoon:Tymvaul|Tymvaul]]|[[Bloodmoon:Ulfgar the Unending|Ulfgar]]|Urfing|[[Bloodmoon:Valgeir|Valgeir]]|Valund|Velfred the Outlaw (person)|[[Bloodmoon:Vignunn|Vignunn]]|Virgerd|Vongvild|Yngling Half-Troll}}

===Oblivion===
{{NameList|ns_base=Oblivion|Agarmir|Agnar the Unwavering|Algot the Northerner|[[Shivering:Arctus|Arctus]]|Beirir|Bittneld the Curse-Bringer|Bjalfi the Contemptible|Burd|Carsten|Eitar|Erich|Esbern|Fafnir|Fjotreid|Geimund|Gromm|Gukimir|Gunder|[[Shivering:Gundlar|Gundlar]]|Hafid Hollowleg|Hamlof Red-Tooth|Hans Black-Nail|Havilstein Hoar-Blood|Heinrich Oaken-Hull|[[Oblivion:Sir Henrik|Henrik]]|Hil the Tall|[[Oblivion:Brother Hjar|Hjar]]|Hlofgar|[[Oblivion:Brother Holger|Holger]]|Honmund|[[Shivering:Horkvir Bear-Arm|Horkvir]]|[[Oblivion:Brother Hridi|Hridi]]|Hrol Ulfgar|Irroke the Wide|Iver|[[Shivering:Jayred Ice-Veins|Jayred]]|Jesper|[[Oblivion:Fetid Jofnhild|Jofnhild]]|Jollring|Jorck the Outcast|Jorundr|Kalthar|Keld of the Isles|Larthjar the Laggard|Logvaar|[[Shivering:Lorenz Bog-Trotter|Lorenz]]|Lorkmir|Lynch|Manheim Maulhand|Mogens Wind-Shifter|Msirae Faythung|Nels the Naughty|Newheim the Portly|Niels|Olav|Olfand|Ongar the World-Weary|Orgnolf Hairy-Legs|Ortis|Regner|Reistr the Rotted|Rolgarel|Roliand|Snar the Cook|Sten the Ugly|Storn the Burly|Styrbjorn|Tolgan|Torbal the Sufficient|[[Oblivion:Sir Torolf|Torolf]]|[[Shivering:Tove the Unrestful|Tove]]|Ulfgar Fog-Eye|[[Oblivion:Ghost of Valdemar|Valdemar]]|Vidkun|Vigge the Cautious|Wilhelm the Worm|Wrath|[[Shivering:Yngvar Doom-Sayer|Yngvar]]}}

===Skyrim===
{{#local:ns_base|Skyrim}}
'''2x''':
Barknar ({{FamilyList|flip=y|Barknar||(Dawnguard)}}),
Fultheim ({{FamilyList|flip=y|Fultheim||the Fearless}}),
Gunjar ({{FamilyList|flip=y|Gunjar||(Hearthfire)}}),
Kjeld ({{FamilyList|flip=y|Kjeld||the Younger}}),
Nikulas ([[Skyrim:Nikulas|1]], [[Dragonborn:Nikulas|2]]),
Sond ({{FamilyList|flip=y|Sond|(bandit)|(child)}}),
Torkild ([[Skyrim:Torkild the Fearsome|1]], [[Dragonborn:Torkild|2]]) 
'''1x''': {{NameList|[[Skyrim:Vigilant Adalvald|Adalvald]]|Addvar|Addvild|Agmaer|[[Dragonborn:Akar|Akar]]|Alding|[[Skyrim:Captain Aldis|Aldis]]|Alfarinn|Alvor|Andurs|Angrenor Once-Honored|Angvid|Argis the Bulwark|Arnbjorn|Arngeir|Arnskar Ember-Master|Arrald Frozen-Heart|Asbjorn Fire-Tamer|Asgeir Snow-Shod|Aslfur|Assur|Atar|Aventus Aretino|Avulstein Grey-Mane|Badnir|Balbus|[[Dragonborn:Baldor Iron-Shaper|Baldor]]|Balgruuf the Greater|Balimund|Bassianus Axius|Beirand|Belrand|[[Dragonborn:Benkum|Benkum]]|Benor|Bersi Honey-Hand|Bjorlam|[[Dragonborn:Bjornolfr|Bjornolfr]]|Bolgeir Bearclaw|Bolli|Bolund|Borgny|Borri|Borvir|Bottar|Briehl|Brill|Brond|Brunwulf Free-Winter|Brynjolf|Bulfrek|Calder|Christer|Dagur|Dengeir of Stuhn|[[Dragonborn:Deor Woodcutter|Deor]]|Drahff|Drennen|Eimar|Einarth|Elgrim|[[Dragonborn:Elmus|Elmus]]|Embry|Engar|Eorlund Gray-Mane|Erik the Slayer|Erikur|Erlendr|Esbern|Falk Firebeard|Farengar Secret-Fire|Farkas|Felldir the Old|Fenrig|Filnjar|Frodnar|Frofnir Trollsbane|Froki Whetted-Blade|Frorkmar Banner-Torn|Frothar|Galmar Stone-Fist|Garthar|[[Dragonborn:Garuk Windrime|Garuk]]|Geimund|Geirlund|Gestur Rockbreaker|Gissur|Gjak|[[Dragonborn:Gjalund Salt-Sage|Gjalund]]|Gjuk|Gloth|Golldir|Gonnar Oath-Giver|Gorm|Gort|Gralnach|Gregor|Grimvar Cruel-Sea|Grisvar the Unlucky|Gunding|Gunmar|Gunnar Stone-Eye|Guthrum|Hadring|Hadvar|Hafnar Ice-Fist|Hajvarr Iron-Hand|[[Skyrim:Dawnguard Novice Hakar|Hakar]]|[[Dragonborn:Haknir Death-Brand|Haknir]]|Hakon One-Eye|[[Dragonborn:Halbarn Iron-Fur|Halbarn]]|Haming|[[Skyrim:Captain Hargar|Hargar]]|[[Skyrim:Lord Harkon|Harkon]]|Harlaug|Harrald|Heddic Volunnar|Heimskr|Heimvar|Helvard|Hemming Black-Briar|Henrik|Heratar|Hern|Hewnon Black-Skeever|[[Dragonborn:Hjalfar|Hjalfar]]|Hjornskar Head-Smasher|Hjorunn|Hod|Hofgrir Horse-Crusher|Hogni Red-Arm|Holgeir|Horgeir|Horik Halfhand|Horm|Hreinn|Hroar|[[Dragonborn:Hrodulf|Hrodulf]]|Hroggar|[[Skyrim:Ghost of Old Hroldan|Hroldan]]|[[Skyrim:Legate Hrollod|Hrollod]]|Hrolmir|Hrongar|[[Dragonborn:Hrothmund|Hrothmund]]|Hunroor|Idolaf Battle-Born|Igmund|Irlof|Irnskar Ironhand|Istar Cairn-Breaker|[[Skyrim:Acolyte Jenssen|Jenssen]]|Jervar|Jesper|Jod|Jofthor|Jolf|Jon Battle-Born|Jorgen|Joric|Jorleif|Jorn|Jurgen Windcaller|Kai Wet-Pommel|Karl|Kibell|Kjar|Kleppr|Klimmek|Knjakr|Knud|Kodlak Whitemane|Kodrir|Korir|Kottir Red-Shoal|Kraldar|Kust|[[Dragonborn:Kuvar|Kuvar]]|Kvenel the Tongue|Kyr|Lars Battle-Born|Leifur|Leigelf|Lemkil|Llewellyn the Nightingale|Lod|Lodi|Lodvar|Logrolf the Willful|Lokil|Lokir|Lond|[[Skyrim:Lucky Lorenz|Lorenz]]|Lortheim|Lund|[[Dragonborn:Lygrleid|Lygrleid]]|Lynoit|[[Dragonborn:Majni|Majni]]|Markus|Mathies|Maul|[[Skyrim:Captain Metilius|Metilius]]|Mikael|[[Dragonborn:Miraak (NPC)|Miraak]]|Molgrom Twice-Killed|Mralki|Narfi|Nelkir|Niels|Nils|Odar|Odfel|Oengul War-Anvil|Ogmund|Olaf One-Eye|Olfrid Battle-Born|Ollrod|Onmund|Orgnar|Orthjolf|[[Dragonborn:Oslaf|Oslaf]]|Pactur|Raerek|Ragnar|Ralof|Ranmir|Rargal Thrallmaster|Reves|Rhorlak|Rigel Strong-Arm|Rissing|Rogen|Roggi Knot-Beard|Roggvir|Rolff Stone-Fist|Rorik|Rorlund|Rundi|Rustleif|Sabjorn|Saerlund|Sibbi Black-Briar|Siddgeir|Sifnar Ironkettle|Sigaar|Sigar|Sigurd|Sild the Warlock|Sinding|Sinmir|Sirgar|[[Dragonborn:Sirkjorg|Sirkjorg]]|Skaggi Scar-Face|Skald|Skeggr|Skjor|Skuli|[[Skyrim:Legate Skulnar|Skulnar]]|Skulvar Sable-Hilt|Snilf|Snilling|Snorreid|[[Dragonborn:Sogrlaf|Sogrlaf]]|Solaf|Stalf|[[Skyrim:Unused_NPCs#Steirod|Steirod]]|Stenvar|Stig Salt-Plank|[[Dragonborn:Storn Crag-Strider|Storn]]|Styrr|Sulvar the Steady|Svaknir|Sven|Talsgar the Wanderer|Thadgeir|Thaer|[[Dragonborn:Thalin Ebonhand|Thalin]]|Thjollod|Thonar Silver-Blood|Thongvor Silver-Blood|Thonjolf|Thonnir|Thorald Gray-Mane|Thorek|Thoring|Thorygg Sun-Killer|Thorgar|Thrynn|[[Skyrim:Vigilant Tolan|Tolan]]|Tolfdir|Torbjorn Shatter-Shield|Torolf|Torsten Cruel-Sea|Torvar|[[Skyrim:High King Torygg|Torygg]]|[[Skyrim:Unused_NPCs#Trilf|Trilf]]|Tsun|Tulvur|Ulfberth War-Bear|Ulfgar the Unending|Ulfr the Blind|Ulfric Stormcloak|Unmid Snow-Shod|Vald|Valdar|Valdimar|Valdr|Vanik|Vekel the Man|Verner Rock-Chucker|Vidgrod|Viding|Vidrald|Vignar Gray-Mane|Vilkas|Vilod|Vipir the Fleet|Virkmund|Volk|Vorstag|Vulwulf Snow-Shod|Wilhelm|Wilmuth|[[Dragonborn:Wulf Wild-Blood|Wulf]]|Wulfgar|Wuunferth the Unliving|Yngvar the Singer|Yrsarald Thrice-Pierced}}

===Online===
[[Online:Jorunn the Skald-King|Jorunn]]

===Lore===
'''2x''': Einarr ([[Lore:Thirsk, a History|1]]) 
'''1x''': [[Lore:The Story of Aevar Stone-Singer|Aevar]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 56|Asgeir]], [[Morrowind:Hlormar Wine-Sot|Balmir]], [[Skyrim:Alduin's Bane|Birkir]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Beinir]], [[Lore:Borgas|Borgas]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, vol 24|Breff]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 7|Brunl]], [[Lore:Derek the Tall|Derek]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Drengr]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Eldjar]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Eldrid]], [[Lore:Elgryr the Unminded|Elgryr]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Falki]], [[Skyrim:Alduin's Bane|Galthor]], [[Lore:Gauldur|Gauldur]], [[Lore:Geirmund|Geirmund]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Girgun]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Gisl]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Griss]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Grjotgaror]], [[Lore:Horker Attacks|Gromm]], [[Lore:Flight from the Thalmor|Hadrik]], [[Lore:Ahzidal's Descent|Halund]], [[Lore:Jarl Hanse|Hanse]], [[Lore:Harald|Harald]], [[Lore:Horker_Attacks|Heidmir]], [[Dragonborn:Edla|Heifnir]], [[Lore:Fall of the Snow Prince|Heimdall]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 2|Hermeskr]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Hildir]], [[Lore:Harald|Hjalmer]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Hjarknir]], [[Lore:Hoag Merkiller|Hoag]], [[Lore:Song of Hrormir|Hrorgar]], [[Lore:Song of Hrormir|Hrormir]], [[Lore:Hrothmund the Red|Hrothmund]], [[Lore:The Falmer: A Study|Ingjaldr]], [[Lore:Jeek of the River|Jeek]], [[Lore:Jorg Helmbolg|Jorg]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 7|Jonder]], [[Skyrim:Jyrik Gauldurson|Jyrik]], [[Lore:Kjoric the White|Kjoric]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 7|Kluwe]], [[Lore:Great Harbingers|Kyrnil]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 7|Loate]], [[Lore:Fall of the Snow Prince|Lokheim]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 7|Meksim]], [[Skyrim:Mikrul Gauldurson|Mikrul]], [[Lore:Great Harbingers|Mryfwiil]], [[Lore:Olmgerd|Olmgerd]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 56|Rhorlak]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, vol 24|Roeth]], [[Skyrim:Sigdis Gauldurson|Sigdis]], [[Dragonborn:Frea|Skalf]], [[Lore:A Dream of Sovngarde|Skardan]], [[Lore:Skorm Snow-Strider's Journal|Skorm]], [[Skyrim:Alduin's Bane|Sorri]], [[Lore:Fall of the Snow Prince|Strom]], [[Lore:Sven Advensen|Sven]], [[Lore:Lost Legends|Talsgar]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 7|Terr]], [[Lore:Thian|Thian]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Thjold]], [[Skyrim:Note (Forelhost_Crypt)|Thorallod]], [[Lore:Forge, Hammer and Anvil|Thorbald]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Thorormr]], [[Lore:Alduin is Real|Thromgar]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 7|Tysnal]], [[Dragonborn:Morwen|Ulfarr]], [[Skyrim:Aura_Whisper|Undveld]], [[Lore:Valdimar|Valdimar]], [[Lore:Vrage|Vrage]], [[Lore:Guide to Better Thieving|Wulfmare]], [[Lore:Ylgar]], [[Lore:Yngol|Yngol]], [[Lore:Dragon Language: Myth no More|Yngnavar]], [[Lore:Ysgramor|Ysgramor]], [[Lore:Ysmir|Ysmir]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 7|Yust]]
{{NewLeft}}

==Female Nord Names==
===Arena and Daggerfall===
*Given names for female Nords in Arena and Daggerfall seem to consist of one of thirteen prefixes and one of seven suffixes.
*The 13 prefixes for female Nord names are: An, Bet, Dor, Ell, Han, Hell, Ing, Jyt, Kirst, Met, Morg, Sill, Ull
*The 7 suffixes for female Nord names are: a, e, en, ia, ina, ne, te

'''Therefore, all of the female Nord names in Arena and Daggerfall are:'''
{|
|Ana,||Ane,||Anen,||Ania,||Anina,||Anne,||Ante,
|-
|Beta,||Bete,||Beten,||Betia,||Betina,||Betne,||Bette,
|-
|Dora,||Dore,||Doren,||Doria,||Dorina,||Dorne,||Dorte,
|-
|Ella,||Elle,||Ellen,||Ellia,||Ellina,||Ellne,||Ellte,
|-
|Hana,||Hane,||Hanen,||Hania,||Hanina,||Hanne,||Hante,
|-
|Hella,||Helle,||Hellen,||Hellia,||Hellina,||Hellne,||Hellte,
|-
|Inga,||Inge,||Ingen,||Ingia,||Ingina,||Ingne,||Ingte,
|-
|Jyta,||Jyte,||Jyten,||Jytia,||Jytina,||Jytne,||Jytte,
|-
|Kirsta,||Kirste,||Kirsten,||Kirstia,||Kirstina,||Kirstne,||Kirstte,
|-
|Meta,||Mete,||Meten,||Metia,||Metina,||Metne,||Mette,
|-
|Morga,||Morge,||Morgen,||Morgia,||Morgina,||Morgne,||Morgte,
|-
|Silla,||Sille,||Sillen,||Sillia,||Sillina,||Sillne,||Sillte,
|-
|Ulla,||Ulle,||Ullen,||Ullia,||Ullina,||Ullne,||Ullte
|}

===Morrowind===
{{NameList|ns_base=Morrowind|Aeta Wave-Breaker|Aldi|Anja Swift-Sailer|Aumsi|Barri|[[Bloodmoon:Bergljot|Bergljot]]|Brasteir|Eigma|Eiruki Hearth-Healer|Ekkhi|[[Bloodmoon:Erna the Quiet|Erna]]|Eydis Fire-Eye|Fryfnhild|[[Bloodmoon:Fryssa|Fryssa]]|Greidil Half-Troll|[[Bloodmoon:Grerid Axe-Wife|Grerid]]|Haema Farseer|Heddvild|Helga|[[Bloodmoon:Hidar|Hidar]]|Hjotra the Peacock|Holmgeira|[[Bloodmoon:Horski Tallowhand|Horski]]|Hreirek the Lean|Hroa|Hrordis|Hyring|Igna|Ilfhild|Imsin the Dreamer|Ingokning|Jolding|Kar Alber|[[Bloodmoon:Kili the Long|Kili]]|[[Bloodmoon:Kjolver|Kjolver]]|[[Bloodmoon:Kolfinna|Kolfinna]]|[[Morrowind:Miner Lisaa|Lisaa]]|Merta|Mette|[[Bloodmoon:Olfeigr the Fair|Olfeigr]]|Ondi|Rangela|Ringvild|[[Bloodmoon:Risi Ice-Mane|Risi]]|Rostlogi|Runa|Siri|Sottilde|[[Bloodmoon:Svenja Snow-Song|Svenja]]|Thalestris|Thunmund|[[Bloodmoon:Ulfrun|Ulfrun]]|Ursine|Val|Vori|Ygfa}}

===Oblivion===
{{NameList|ns_base=Oblivion|Agata|Agnete the Pickled|Alga|Edla Dark-Heart|Else God-Hater|Emfrid|Eyja|Hjolfrodi the Harrier|Jensine|Kirsten|Maeva the Buxom|Malene|Maren the Seal|Margarte|Merete|Olava the Fair|Petrine|Rigmor|Rona Benanius|Signy Home-Wrecker|Sigrid|Skjorta|Sonje|Ulrika Ulfgar|Vigdis}}

===Skyrim===
'''2x''':
Eydis ([[Skyrim:Eydis|1]], [[Dragonborn:Eydis|2]]),
Idgrod ({{FamilyList|flip=y|Idgrod|Ravencrone|the Younger}}),
Karita ({{FamilyList|flip=y|Karita|(bard)|(warrior)}}),
Liesl ([[Skyrim:Liesl|1]], [[Dragonborn:Liesl|2]]) 
'''1x''': {{NameList|Abelone|Adisla|Aela the Huntress|Aeri|[[Dragonborn:Aeta|Aeta]]|Agna|Agni|Agnis|Alea Quintus|Alfhild Battle-Born|Alva|Alvide|Annekke Crag-Jumper|Angi|Anise|Anska|Argi Farseer|Ari|Asta|Astrid|Beitild|Bergritte Battle-Born|Betrid Silver-Blood|Birna|Bjartur|Bodil|Bolfrida Brandy-Mug|Boti|Breya|Brina Merilis|Britte|Bryling|[[Dragonborn:Bujold the Unworthy|Bujold]]|Dagny|Danica Pure-Spring|Dorthe|Drifa|Edith|[[Dragonborn:Edla|Edla]]|Eirid|Eisa Blackthorn|Elda Early-Dawn|Elisif the Fair|Erdi|Eris|Evette San|Faida|[[Dragonborn:Fanari Strong-Voice|Fanari]]|Fastred|[[Dragonborn:Finna|Finna]]|Fjori|Fjola|Fjotra|Frabbi|Fralia Gray-Mane|[[Dragonborn:Frea|Frea]]|Freir|Frida|Fridrika|Fruki|Fura Bloodmouth|Gerda|Gerdur|Gisli|Gormlaith Golden-Hilt|Grelka|Grelod the Kind|Greta|Grete|Grosta|Gwendolyn|Haelga|Hafjorg|Hamal|Haran|Hefid the Deaf|[[Skyrim:Helgi's Ghost|Helgi]]|Helgird|[[Dragonborn:Herkja|Herkja]]|Hermir Strong-Heart|Hert|Hestla|Hilde|Hillevi Cruel-Sea|[[Dragonborn:Hilund|Hilund]]|[[Dragonborn:Hjordis|Hjordis]]|Hoddreid|Hrefna|Hroki|Huki Seven-Swords|Hulda|Iddra|Illdi|Inge Six Fingers|Ingjard|Ingrid|Ingun Black-Briar|Iona|Irgnir|Jala|Jora|Jordis the Sword-Maiden|Katla|Katria|Laila Law-Giver|Lami|Lillith Maiden-Loom|Lisbet|Lydia|Lynly Star-Sung|Margret|Matlara|Maven Black-Briar|Minette Vinius|Mjoll the Lioness|[[Dragonborn:Morwen|Morwen]]|Narri|Nilsine Shatter-Shield|Njada Stonearm|Nura Snow-Shod|Olava the Feeble|Olda|Olfina Gray-Mane|Oriella|Orla|[[Dragonborn:Rakel|Rakel]]|Rigel Strong-Arm|[[Skyrim:Legate Rikke|Rikke]]|Ruki|Runa Fair-Shield|Sapphire (NPC)|Serana|Sigrid|Silda the Unseen|Sissel|Sofie|Sonir|Sorli the Builder|Susanna the Wicked|Svana Far-Shield|Svari|Swanhvir|Sylgja|Tekla|Temba Wide-Arm|Thaena|Threki the Innocent|Tilde|Tilma the Haggard|Tormir|Tova Shatter-Shield|Una|Uthgerd the Unbroken|Valerica|Vori|[[Dragonborn:Yrsa|Yrsa]]|Ysolda}}

===Lore===
[[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Aegilief]], [[Dragonborn:Morwen|Bera]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, vol 24|Britte]], [[Lore:Fall of the Snow Prince|Finna]], [[Lore:Fall of the Snow Prince|Freida]], [[Lore:Books by Author#Frilgeth Horse-Breaker|Frilgeth]], [[Skyrim:Aura Whisper|Fredo]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 2|Froa]], [[Skyrim:Alchemist's Note|Froda]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Gretta]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, vol 24|Greyf]], [[Lore:Songs of the Return, Vol 2|Grosta]], [[Lore:Books by Author#Hela Thrice-Versed|Hela]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Isgeror]], [[Lore:Fall of the Snow Prince|Jofrior]], [[Lore:Books by Author#Liesl Grey-Heart|Liesl]], [[Lore:Ayrenn – The Unforeseen Queen|Mabjaarn]], [[Lore:Macalla|Macalla]], [[Lore:Great Harbingers|Macke]], [[Lore:Jorunn the Skald-King (book)|Nurnhilde]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Oddny]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Svana]], [[Lore:Thirsk, a History|Vibeke]]
{{NewLeft}}

==Clan Names and Titles==
Most Nords have no family name. However, some Nords have clans, or titles added after or occasionally before their given name. Titles as suffixes are often hyphenated. Note that unlike clan names, titles may be changed over the course of one's lifetime, and there are a few incidents of single individuals with multiple titles at different times.

===Arena and Daggerfall===
*Surnames for Nords in Arena and Daggerfall consist of the male prefixes and suffixes and ending in 'sen'
*The 13 prefixes for Nord names are: Al, Asg, Bj, Er, Fenr, Har, Ingm, Jurg, Kj, Moj, Sor, Torb, Ulr
*The 13 suffixes for Nord names are: ald, an, ar, arik, arke, arne, eld, en, ens, er, ik, is, orn

'''Therefore, all of the Nord surnames in Arena and Daggerfall are:'''
{|
|Alaldsen,||Alansen,||Alarsen,||Alariksen,||Alarkesen,||Alarnesen,||Aleldsen,||Alensen,||Alenssen,||Alersen,||Aliksen,||Alissen,||Alornsen,
|-
|Asgaldsen,||Asgansen,||Asgarsen,||Asgariksen,||Asgarkesen,||Asgarnesen,||Asgeldsen,||Asgensen,||Asgenssen,||Asgersen,||Asgiksen,||Asgissen,||Asgornsen,
|-
|Bjaldsen,||Bjansen,||Bjarsen,||Bjariksen,||Bjarkesen,||Bjarnesen,||Bjeldsen,||Bjensen,||Bjenssen,||Bjersen,||Bjiksen,||Bjissen,||Bjornsen,
|-
|Eraldsen,||Eransen,||Erarsen,||Erariksen,||Erarkesen,||Erarnesen,||Ereldsen,||Erensen,||Erenssen,||Erersen,||Eriksen,||Erissen,||Erornsen,
|-
|Fenraldsen,||Fenransen,||Fenrarsen,||Fenrariksen,||Fenrarkesen,||Fenrarnesen,||Fenreldsen,||Fenrensen,||Fenrenssen,||Fenrersen,||Fenriksen,||Fenrissen,||Fenrornsen,
|-
|Haraldsen,||Haransen,||Hararsen,||Harariksen,||Hararkesen,||Hararnesen,||Hareldsen,||Harensen,||Harenssen,||Harersen,||Hariksen,||Harissen,||Harornsen,
|-
|Ingmaldsen,||Ingmansen,||Ingmarsen,||Ingmariksen,||Ingmarkesen,||Ingmarnesen,||Ingmeldsen,||Ingmensen,||Ingmenssen,||Ingmersen,||Ingmiksen,||Ingmissen,||Ingmornsen,
|-
|Jurgaldsen,||Jurgansen,||Jurgarsen,||Jurgariksen,||Jurgarkesen,||Jurgarnesen,||Jurgeldsen,||Jurgensen,||Jurgenssen,||Jurgersen,||Jurgiksen,||Jurgissen,||Jurgornsen,
|-
|Kjaldsen,||Kjansen,||Kjarsen,||Kjariksen,||Kjarkesen,||Kjarnesen,||Kjeldsen,||Kjensen,||Kjenssen,||Kjersen,||Kjiksen,||Kjissen,||Kjornsen,
|-
|Mojaldsen,||Mojansen,||Mojarsen,||Mojariksen,||Mojarkesen,||Mojarnesen,||Mojeldsen,||Mojensen,||Mojenssen,||Mojersen,||Mojiksen,||Mojissen,||Mojornsen,
|-
|Soraldsen,||Soransen,||Sorarsen,||Sorariksen,||Sorarkesen,||Sorarnesen,||Soreldsen,||Sorensen,||Sorenssen,||Sorersen,||Soriksen,||Sorissen,||Sorornsen,
|-
|Torbaldsen,||Torbansen,||Torbarsen,||Torbariksen,||Torbarkesen,||Torbarnesen,||Torbeldsen,||Torbensen,||Torbenssen,||Torbersen,||Torbiksen,||Torbissen,||Torbornsen,
|-
|Ulraldsen,||Ulransen,||Ulrarsen,||Ulrariksen,||Ulrarkesen,||Ulrarnesen,||Ulreldsen,||Ulrensen,||Ulrenssen,||Ulrersen,||Ulriksen,||Ulrissen,||Ulrornsen
|}

===Morrowind===
{{#local:ns_base|Morrowind}}
*Prefix Names:
'''1x''': [[Morrowind:Crazy Batou|Crazy]]
*Suffix Names:
'''2x''':
the Bold ({{FamilyList|the Bold|Garding|[[Bloodmoon:Sattir the Bold|2]]}}) 
'''1x''': {{SurnameList|Haema Farseer|[[Bloodmoon:Rigmor Halfhand|Halfhand]]|Hrondar Highlander|[[Bloodmoon:Horski Tallowhand|Tallowhand]]|[[Tribunal:Hloggar the Bloody|the Bloody]]|Raflod the Braggart|Hakar the Candle|Sarnir the Clerk|Throknolf the Craven|Hrargal the Crow|Imsin the Dreamer|Alof the Easterner|[[Bloodmoon:Olfeigr the Fair|the Fair]]|Arkming the Flayer|Itar the Gentle|Haki the Halt|Hylf the Harrier|Hreirek the Lean|[[Bloodmoon:Kili the Long|the Long]]|[[Bloodmoon:Geilir the Mumbling|the Mumbling]]|Velfred the Outlaw (person)|Hjotra the Peacock|[[Bloodmoon:Erna the Quiet|the Quiet]]|Gudling the Rascal|Sorkvild the Raven (person)|[[Bloodmoon:Bronrod the Roarer|the Roarer]]|Ranmir the Seal|[[Bloodmoon:Snedbrir the Smith|the Smith]]|[[Bloodmoon:Hagrad the Stone|the Stone]]|Fjori the Stout|[[Bloodmoon:Hroldar the Strange|the Strange]]|[[Bloodmoon:Sigvatr the Strong|the Strong]]|[[Tribunal:Forstaag the Sweltering|the Sweltering]]|[[Bloodmoon:Ulfgar the Unending|the Unending]]|[[Bloodmoon:Erich the Unworthy|the Unworthy]]|Frald the White|Abbard the Wild|[[Bloodmoon:Alvring Whitebeard|Whitebeard]]}}
*Hyphenated Names:
'''2x''':
Half-Troll ({{FamilyList|Half-Troll|Greidil|Yngling}}),
Hard-Heart ({{FamilyList|Hard-Heart|Radd|Sjoring}}),
Ice-Mane ({{FamilyList|ns_base=Bloodmoon|Ice-Mane|Engar|Risi}}) 
'''1x''': {{SurnameList|[[Bloodmoon:Grerid Axe-Wife|Axe-Wife]]|Roggvar Blue-Tooth|[[Bloodmoon:Bathmar Bold-Lute|Bold-Lute]]|Hisin Deep-Raed|Alfhedil Elf-Hewer|Sold Fine-Hair|Eydis Fire-Eye|Hrisskar Flat-Foot|Fanar Fork-Beard|[[Bloodmoon:Thormoor Gray-Wave|Gray-Wave]]|Godrod Hairy-Breeks|Onmi Hard-Mouth|[[Bloodmoon:Tharsten Heart-Fang|Heart-Fang]]|Eiruki Hearth-Healer|Horstar Home-Wrecker|Sjorvar Horse-Mouth|Hlora Long-Leg|[[Bloodmoon:Rolf Long-Tooth|Long-Tooth]]|[[Bloodmoon:Reinhardt Red-Spear|Red-Spear]]|Hamlof Red-tooth|[[Bloodmoon:Svenja Snow-Song|Snow-Song]]|Anja Swift-Sailer|Aeta Wave-Breaker|[[Bloodmoon:Korst Wind-Eye|Wind-Eye]]|Hlormar Wine-Sot|[[Bloodmoon:Skjoldr Wolf-Runner|Wolf-Runner]]}}

===Oblivion===
*Prefix Names:
[[Oblivion:Fetid Jofnhild|Fetid]]
*Suffix Names:
{{SurnameList|ns_base=Oblivion|Hafid Hollowleg|Manheim Maulhand|Keld of the Isles|Storn the Burly|Maeva the Buxom|Vigge the Cautious|Bjalfi the Contemptible|Snar the Cook|Bittneld the Curse-Bringer|Olava the Fair|Hjolfrodi the Harrier|Larthjar the Laggard|Nels the Naughty|Algot the Northerner|Jorck the Outcast|Agnete the Pickled|Newheim the Portly|Reistr the Rotted|Maren the Seal|Torbal the Sufficient|Hil the Tall|Sten the Ugly|[[Shivering:Tove the Unrestful|the Unrestful]]|Agnar the Unwavering|[[Shivering:Yngvar Doom-Sayer|the Wanderer]]|Irroke the Wide|Ongar the World-Weary|Wilhelm the Worm}}
*Hyphenated Names:
{{SurnameList|ns_base=Oblivion|[[Shivering:Horkvir Bear-Arm|Bear-Arm]]|Hans Black-Nail|[[Shivering:Lorenz Bog-Trotter|Bog-Trotter]]|Edla Dark-Heart|[[Shivering:Yngvar Doom-Sayer|Doom-Sayer]]|Ulfgar Fog-Eye|Else God-Hater|Orgnolf Hairy-Legs|Havilstein Hoar-Blood|Signy Home-Wrecker|[[Shivering:Jayred Ice-Veins|Ice-Veins]]|Heinrich Oaken-Hull|Hamlof Red-Tooth|Mogens Wind-Shifter}}

===Skyrim===
{{#local:ns_base|Skyrim}}
*Prefix Names:
[[Skyrim:Lucky Lorenz|Lucky]]
*Suffix Names:
'''2x''': the Younger ({{FamilyList|the Younger|Idgrod|Kjeld}}) 
'''1x''': {{SurnameList|Bolgeir Bearclaw|Eisa Blackthorn|Fura Bloodmouth|[[Dragonborn:Thalin Ebonhand|Ebonhand]]|Argi Farseer|Falk Firebeard|Horik Halfhand|Irnskar Ironhand|Sifnar Ironkettle|Dengeir of Stuhn|Idgrod Ravencrone|Gestur Rockbreaker|Inge Six Fingers|Njada Stonearm|Ulfric Stormcloak|Ulfr the Blind|Sorli the Builder|Argis the Bulwark|Hefid the Deaf|Elisif the Fair|Fultheim the Fearless|Torkild the Fearsome|Olava the Feeble|Vipir the Fleet|Balgruuf the Greater|Tilma the Haggard|Aela the Huntress|[[Dragonborn:Bujold the Intrepid|the Intrepid]]|Threki the Innocent|Grelod the Kind|Mjoll the Lioness|Vekel the Man|Llewellyn the Nightingale|Nepos the Nose|Felldir the Old|Yngvar the Singer|Erik the Slayer|Sulvar the Steady|Jordis the Sword-Maiden|Kvenel the Tongue|Uthgerd the Unbroken|Ulfgar the Unending|Wuunferth the Unliving|Grisvar the Unlucky|Silda the Unseen|[[Dragonborn:Bujold the Unworthy|the Unworthy]]|Talsgar the Wanderer|Sild the Warlock|Susanna the Wicked|Logrolf the Willful|Rargal Thrallmaster|Frofnir Trollsbane|Kodlak Whitemane|Jurgen Windcaller|[[Dragonborn:Garuk Windrime|Windrime]]|[[Dragonborn:Deor Woodcutter|Woodcutter]]}}
*Hyphenated Names:
'''6x''':
Battle-Born ({{FamilyList|Battle-Born|Alfhild|Bergritte|Idolaf|Jon|Lars|Olfrid}}),
Gray-Mane ({{FamilyList|Gray-Mane|Avulstein|Eorlund|Fralia|Olfina|Thorald|Vignar}}) 
'''4x''':
Black-Briar ({{FamilyList|Black-Briar|Hemming|Ingun|Maven|Sibbi}}),
Snow-Shod ({{FamilyList|Snow-Shod|Asgeir|Nura|Unmid|Vulwulf}}) 
'''3x''':
Cruel-Sea ({{FamilyList|Cruel-Sea|Grimvar|Hillevi|Torsten}}),
Shatter-Shield ({{FamilyList|Shatter-Shield|Nilsine|Torbjorn|Tova}}),
Silver-Blood ({{FamilyList|Silver-Blood|Betrid|Thonar|Thongvor}}) 
'''2x''':
One-Eye ({{FamilyList|One-Eye|Hakon|Olaf}}),
Stone-Fist ({{FamilyList|Stone-Fist|Galmar|Rolff}}) 
'''1x''': {{SurnameList|Frorkmar Banner-Torn|Hewnon Black-Skeever|Bolfrida Brandy-Mug|Istar Cairn-Breaker|Annekke Crag-Jumper|[[Dragonborn:Storn Crag-Strider|Crag-Strider]]|[[Dragonborn:Haknir Death-Brand|Death-Brand]]|Elda Early-Dawn|Arnskar Ember-Master|Runa Fair-Shield|Svana Far-Shield|Asbjorn Fire-Tamer|Brunwulf Free-Winter|Arrald Frozen-Heart|Gormlaith Golden-Hilt|Hjornskar Head-Smasher|Bersi Honey-Hand|Hofgrir Horse-Crusher|Hafnar Ice-Fist|[[Dragonborn:Halbarn Iron-Fur|Iron-Fur]]|Hajvarr Iron-Hand|[[Dragonborn:Baldor Iron-Shaper|Iron-Shaper]]|Roggi Knot-Beard|Laila Law-Giver|Captain Lonely-Gale|Lillith Maiden-Loom|Gonnar Oath-Giver|Angrenor Once-Honored|Danica Pure-Spring|Hogni Red-Arm|Kottir Red-Shoal|Verner Rock-Chucker|Skulvar Sable-Hilt|Stig Salt-Plank|[[Dragonborn:Gjalund Salt-Sage|Salt-Sage]]|Skaggi Scar-Face|Farengar Secret-Fire|Huki Seven-Swords|Lynly Star-Sung|Gunnar Stone-Eye|Rigel Strong-Arm|Hermir Strong-Heart|[[Dragonborn:Fanari Strong-Voice|Strong-Voice]]|Thorygg Sun-Killer|Yrsarald Thrice-Pierced|Molgrom Twice-Killed|Oengul War-Anvil|Ulfberth War-Bear|Kai Wet-Pommel|Froki Whetted-Blade|Temba Wide-Arm|[[Dragonborn:Wulf Wild-Blood|Wild-Blood]]}}

===Online===
*Suffix Names:
[[Online:Jorunn the Skald-King|the Skald-King]]

===Lore===
*Suffix Names:
'''2x''': the Elder, the White 
'''1x''': the Calm, the Colossus, the Elfkiller, the Far-Sighted, the Fat, the Frenzied, the Giant, the Gifted, the Greater, Greycloak, Helmbolg, the Intrepid, the Knife, the Large, the Long-Sighted, Merkiller, the Outlaw, of the Piercing Eyes, the Red, of the River, the Smiler, Starkad, the Stone, the Tiny, the Unfaithful, the Unminded, the Unworthy, the Walker, the Withdrawn, Wulfharth, the Yellow, the Younger
*Hyphenated Names:
Anvil-Hand, Bear-Skinner, Bronze-Helm, [[Lore:Ayrenn – The Unforeseen Queen|Flame-Hair]], Free-Winter, Ghost-Bear, Green-Hand, Grey-Heart, Hand-Free, Horse-Breaker, Ice-Light, Iron-Head, Long-Nose, [[Lore:Jorunn the Skald-King (book)|Lute-Voice]], Oaken-Heart, Oaken-Wand, Red-Eagle, Round-Gut, Shadow-Cloak, Snow-Strider, Stone-Singer, Storm-Killer, Thrice-Versed, Two-Hammers, White-Beard, White-Eye, White-Wave, Wolf-Child, Wolf-Heart, Wolf-Runner, Worm-Heart