UESPWiki - User Contributions [en]

Oblivion talk:Animals

2010-10-18T21:08:06Z

Gorilladin: /* Huh? */

==Page Reorganization==
To explain some of what I just did to this page:
* I have merged all the animals (previously split between [[Oblivion:Creatures_Predators]] and [[Oblivion:Creatures_Passive]]) into a single page, now titled "Animals".
* The only exception are the horses: all horse stats are now on the [[Oblivion:Horses]] page.
* The name "Animals" was chosen for consistency with references on place pages and elsewhere.
Basically, any type of division of the animals into separate lists ended up being arbitrary and messy, with exceptions that just didn't really work however things were done. So I decided to just combine them (and with the removal of all the horse info, the "passive" page was much shorter).

The other changes are all comparable to the changes that I've previously done to [[Oblivion:Undead]] and [[Oblivion:Daedra]] (with some explanation at [[Oblivion Talk:Undead]]). I've still got some more work to do over the next couple days (especially filling in all the descriptions and overview paragraphs), but the major rearranging is all done. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 00:41, 2 February 2007 (EST)

: I'm currently thinking about adding pictures to [[Bloodmoon:Creatures]] and was directed over here to watch. In my opinion it should be avoided to implement information more than once, and I have seen that this is possible if you ''include'' small sections into one summary page (actually I have seen that on some actifacts pages in Morrowind). It would be nice to have a statement from someone knowledgeable if that is a useable way of doing it. Thanks, [[User:Adjego|Adjego]] 07:38, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::While I tend to be obsessive about avoiding duplicate information, there are times when I think it may be a necessary evil. And this is likely to be one of those cases.
::First, the format being used for the summaries on the creature page is different from the summaries being used on the individual pages. It may not be too noticeable with the animals, because there are relatively few noteworthy details with the animals. But compare, for example, the information at [[Oblivion:Lich]] with that at [[Oblivion:Creatures#Lich]]. The creature page provides only the basic "quick-look" type of information, whereas the undead page provides more comprehensive information. Some of the information on the creature summary is moved from the summary into the tables on the undead page (sometimes with extra details, sometimes with differences between variants of the creature). It would be possible to revamp the two to have a more similar format, but I don't think either page would be improved in the process.
::Second, the transclusion/include/noinclude system has limitations. The way it's implemented is very inefficient. For example, everything on the included page (even the noinclude sections) initially gets stuffed into the main page; only after the wiki has fully assembled the megapage doese it then start parsing out the bits it doesn't want. The upshot of which is that taking a dozen large pages and transcluding 5% of each of them into a summary page is likely to produce a page that can hardly be edited or viewed (such as the [[Morrowind:Artifacts]] page before it was just broken up into four smaller pages).
::Avoiding duplicate information is a priority on the site, but primarily because of concerns about keeping duplicates in sync. A higher priority is to make sure that readers can what they're looking for in a useful, informative format. And if two different pages require different formats, then it's probably better to just provide the information twice (once in each format) instead of trying to shoehorn two different needs into the same size shoe. That's my opinion, at least. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 14:30, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::: I see the point concerning a brief and nice overview page and the detailed one, and agree that they are often too different to add up.
::: For the second part, I don't see where there is the big ineffective part - given we include only pages that contain almost no noinclude parts. But that's only server power we require, and hey, we can choose our thumbnailformat from six possible resolutions, which again are recalculated by the server, and then cached. But cacheing can also be done for pages (in my opinion without being sure about the wiki-system, if it really can do that). Besides, the [[Morrowind:Weapon_Artifacts]] is built out of includes only, and that enables you to have a nice overview list or an individual page for one of those artifacts. (But maybe [[User:DrPhoton|DrPhoton]] is going to bake it together to one real page to increase the speed, I didn't ask.) (And hey, you are one of the administrators and should know about speed issues, so maybe I just take it like that...)
::: Well, thank you for the help, I'm going to think about a nice overview page then. Maybe, have a look at [[User:Adjego/Tinbox|my tinbox]] at the last section and tell me what you think about it ? Thanks, [[User:Adjego|Adjego]] 18:03, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::::The issue with transcluding pages isn't the images, the image thumbnail size, or whether the images are cached. The issue is actually with the text on the page, and more specifically with any templates on the page (any bits using <code><nowiki>{{...}}</nowiki></code> tags). The whole reason why the [[Morrowind:Artifacts]] page was split up into pages like [[Morrowind:Weapon Artifacts]] is because the page is created solely out of includes (or templates, or transclusions, depending upon your preferred terminology). There were too many of them when they were all on a single page, as had been the case at the original Artifacts page. The new subarticles are not going to be combined back into a single large article because the problem would be even worse than it had been before. You can look over the discussion at [[Morrowind talk:Artifacts#Problem Saving Page]] if you want. Or the related discussions at the [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal#Problems_Saving_Pages|Community Portal]] and [[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard#Pages_Missing|Administrator Noticeboard]] (and the links from there to even older discussions, some of which start to get into the technical issues of why template calls are so inefficient).
::::This isn't to say that including articles shouldn't be done. In most cases it is the best way to deal with two articles that need to contain the same information. But it's best when the included article is relatively small and/or uncomplicated. An article like [[Oblivion:Animals|Animals]] that's already 44 kB in size and contains dozens of template calls is likely to cause problems, especially if multiple similar (or larger) articles are also going to be included into the same article. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 18:49, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== Black Bear Glitch ==

:''It is interesting to note that both black and brown bears(not cubs) have an interesting glitch sometimes encountered. when the player spot one, there is a chance it will be levitating in the air of a height up to 3 feet. the bear will move in a swim-like manner and will keep moving this way until the player is spotted or it dies. also, shooting it with any bow and any arrow type while it does not see the player and is still floating will not damage it.''
Can anyone confirm this note posted in the Black Bear section of the article? I've never seen this happen myself, but maybe other people have and can say what might be going on here? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 23:28, 4 March 2007 (EST)

== Schemer, pet of the Dark Brotherhood. ==

Schemer is a unique rat who is a member of the Dark Brotherhood(killing him gets you expelled). He is found in the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary in Cheydinhal. I am thinking he deserves his own page rather then simply being lumped under this list of animals. Schemer is more prominent in the game then say, Llevana Nedaren's Tunnel Rats(which it appears next to). I am going to ahead and create it, if anyone has any objections, please send me a message(don't just delete it). [[User:Oblivion alchemyskillz|Oblivion alchemyskillz]] 20:46, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

:I really don't see how Schemer is more prominent in the game. If I recall correctly, Llevana Nedaren's rats actually play a role in a quest, and Schemer never does. I don't see the point in making a page just for a rat that never does anything. --[[User:Eshe|Eshe]] 20:52, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

::It is present in the game more often. If you don't kill it during the Purification quest(whatever its called) it can be there the entire game. Sure it doesn't do anything( not related to quests, doesn't offer services) but then again neither do a lot of NPCs who have pages(Dorian, Lazare Milvan, several people in the Waterfront, etc.) Its a member of a faction and it has a unique name. I might as well just revert it, though, I just now figured out I don't understand how to get rid of the redirect to the Animals page. [[User:Oblivion alchemyskillz|Oblivion alchemyskillz]] 20:59, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

:::Probably a good idea. I have a feeling it wouldn't go over well...seems more like an action based on opinion than something that is actually justified. For things like this, it's usually a good idea to get a community opinion ''before'' making major changes. --[[User:Eshe|Eshe]] 21:03, 9 July 2007 (EDT)
:::: Ah alright. Now that I think about it doesn't make all that much sense. Perhaps I will stick to expanding the section on the Animals page? [[User:Oblivion alchemyskillz|Oblivion alchemyskillz]] 21:10, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

::::: Yep, I'd agree that just expanding the section on the Animals page makes the most sense. If you're able to find 2-3 paragraphs worth of information on Schemer, then it's worth discussing again whether or not a separate page is needed. In general, new pages should really only be created if there is enough information to fill a page, or if it is necessary for consistency (e.g., all NPCs have pages, even if some of those pages are short). With the existing redirect, there is no navigational advantage to having a separate page. Also, even if eventually a separate page is added, I would suggest that Schemer's entry on the Animals page needs to remain in place: the Rats section provides a complete list of all the rats in the game, and Schemer needs to be included in that list for it to be complete, whether or not he has his own page. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 22:07, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

== Mountain Lion ==

Mountain lions have a different roar than the one currently in the game. They also look different in real life, unless by mountain lion they weren't referring to the cougar.--[[User:Papito007|Papito007]] 15:28, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
:They're more likely based on Affrican/Indian Lionesses because they look more like them (except they are slightly smaller in size) and can roar (Cougars/Pumas apparently cannot roar), however I do not know why the developers called them 'mountain' Lions.--[[User:Willyhead|Willyhead]] 08:30, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

User [[User:78.85.36.43|78.85.36.43]] changed the note in the article concerning Mountain Lions, saying they appeared at level 10, rather than level 12. I reverted this change. Here's why.

Mountain Lions are in a host of levelled lists. In the vast majority of the spawn points of these levelled lists, they will not appear until level 12. However, in LL1RoadHighlands, which is used in 6 places, they will appear at level 10. In fact, there's a chance of getting 2 of them at level 10 at these spawn points.

A single mountain lion may also appear at the 5 spawn points for LL1RoadMountains, the 12 spawn points for LL1RoadPlains, and the single spawn point for LL1RoadRainforest. Given that the levelled lists where they are listed at level 12 have over 300 spawn points, I think it is safe to say that in the majority of cases they won't appear until level 12.

[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 08:42, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
:Although Saruuk's solution is better than my waffle. --[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 08:44, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

::Just to followup on the creature levels. On all of the pages the levels usually quoted are the '''standard''' levels, i.e., the levels from the most "standard" lists that spawn those creatures. But all creatures will in fact be found at lower levels in "non-standard" situations: boss versions of creatures will appear two levels earlier than usual (and all "road" versions of wilderness creatures are spawned using boss levels). Some creatures will be found even earlier than that in various specialized situations (certain quests, for example, or other rare places that use unique leveled lists). I made a decision when putting all of these pages together to use the standard level as the typical value because I think it is the most representative. For example, I don't think it's too useful in a table (where no extra info is provided) to quote that Flame Atronachs are found at level 4, even though, yes, that is theoretically possible. The only place you'll find a Flame Atronach at level 4 is one single creature in the count's chambers in Castle Kvatch. Instead, every table states that you'll find Flame Atronachs at level 9 because there are some 500+ locations where they'll appear at level 9.
::I think more details on the lists are completely appropriate at a place like [[Oblivion:Mountain Lion]]. I'm also trying to add the info to the various ingredient pages. However, I don't think that the numbers should be arbitrarily changed in tables such as those on [[Oblivion:Creatures]]. At the least, a change to those tables should only be made if everyone feels that '''all''' of the creature levels need to be altered '''everywhere'''. Otherwise, the values provided for Mountain Lions are inconsistent with every other entry on the page. Also, on [[Oblivion:Animals]] it explicitly states that the listed values are currently '''standard''' values:
:::''The above table shows which creatures belong to each of the standard leveled lists, and the level at which you will normally start to encounter the creature. These are the typical levels, but exceptions do exist, which are detailed with the creature statistics. Two common exceptions are boss-level creatures and creatures encountered along roads, both which will be encountered two levels lower than the typical level.''
::Finally, FYI, details on the leveled lists used to spawn Mountain Lions (and all other creatures) outside are provided at [[Oblivion:Outdoors Creatures|Outdoors Creatures]]. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:36, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

== Porkchop ==

Also besides the Rat, you should also get a page for Porkchop, plus a picture, since I like pigs, anyway I think you should have a separate page for him because he is a character in the Arena Bloodworks 24/7, plus he plays a major role also by giving you a great deal of help by the last Hero Match, the Champion Title, thank you!!

PS: May you look at my Idea on this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Mod_Ideas/Creatures
It's called Crossbows and Pets and maybe get ideas from that?, thank you!!

== Hjalti ==

Hey I was right about helping, because you should put in Hjalti, the Fighter's Stronghold pet Wolf into unique wolves section because I saw how you put in the graphs, but I wasn't too sure.

:Does anyone know if Hjalti respawns if you kill him? ([[User:Gadianzero|Gadianzero]] 14:01, 31 December 2008 (EST))

:: No, he doesn't. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 14:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Bacon ==

Sorry to bother you guys again, but if you have nothing else to do, besides the Rat, Porkchop and Hjalti, may you also make a separate page for the Warthog/Boar Bacon, after all, he's in Dunbarrow Cove forever because he's essential and he's there because he's the pet of Khafiz, thank you!!
--[[User:68.194.37.234|68.194.37.234]] 20:11, 26 November 2007 (EST)
:Thanks for your interest. It is being done. You can see the progress on [[UESPWiki:Oblivion Creatures Project]]. --[[User:Mankar Camoran|Mankar Camoran]]•[[User_Talk:Mankar Camoran|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Mankar Camoran|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Mankar Camoran|E]]• 09:08, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== Giant Mudcrabs ==
I've never really got involved with this wiki before and don't want to make an edit, but the entry on mudcrabs says there's only one Giant Mudcrab, found in Greenmead Cave. I encountered two mudcrabs of about two or three times usual size (but with apparently normal stats) in the Wizard's Grotto during the Arrow of Extrication mission. Can anyone else confirm this?

: I have done this quest, the mudcrabs are normal. Glitch? Fix? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:35, 10 February 2009 (EST)

I found giant mudcrabs there to [[User:HighDrive|HighDrive]] 02:33, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

==Lazare Milvan's Rat==
Lazare Milvan has a rat in his basement which is very unique according to Lazare Milvan's page, because it says that it's level related and a test object, so I think he should be added to "unique rats". [[User:Moersleuteltje|Moersleuteltje]] 12:07, 2 March 2008 (EST)Moersleuteltje

:That rat is already listed on the article at [[Oblivion:Animals#Lazare Milvan's Rat]]. The rat is listed in the standard part of the Rat listing (instead of under Unique Rats) because its name is simply "Rat": it does not have a unique name. Therefore most people will not be able to recognize that the rat is any way different from all of the other animals identified as "Rat". That's what has been done everywhere else in the article. --12:46, 2 March 2008 (EST)

::I just encountered that thing... moved like lightning. Does it respawn? --[[User:24.118.124.166|24.118.124.166]] 22:26, 18 January 2009 (EST)

:::No, it does not respawn. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 13:05, 23 January 2009 (EST)

::::While true that it does not have a unique name, it is a single rat not found elsewhere with unique stats. For instance, under "Mudcrabs" in Creatures the Giant Mudcrab of Greenmead Cave is listed, although to my knowledge the only thing different about it is it's size, not it's name or what it carries. -[[User:204.169.115.103|204.169.115.103]] 10:05, 30 January 2009 (EST)

:::::Ummm, sorry, but I really don't what you're suggesting needs to be done any differently. As I already said nearly a year ago, this rat already has its own entry on the article, providing its full statisics, in as much detail as every other animal, unique or common. Which is in fact much more than is provided for the giant mudcrab (which does not have an entry in a table, just a mention in the text to explain that it is really a regular mudcrab). What more can possibly be detailed about this rat? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 10:33, 30 January 2009 (EST)

== Sheep rumors ==

Ive heard this on many sites and also alot of youtube videos, it says that if you got to a farm with some grapes and use the grab control on the grapes and hold it in front of a sheep, it would eat it, and then start to follow you. Is this true? --[[User:Umbacano|Umbacano]] 3:25 , 5 April 2008 (EDT)
: Did you read that on April Fool's day? It's not true. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 08:37, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
:: However it does work with apples on the sheep outside of Skingrad. Tested it several times on 360 GoTY. You hold the apple infront of the sheep and then add it to your inventory. you have to move pretty slowly or else they won't follow for very far and from what i've found they will not follow farther then the end of the Vineyards (any direction) nor will they enter Skingrad. [[User:Lord Eydvar|Lord Eydvar]] 23:08, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

== You? ==

"Striking a sheep is illegal and will give you a bounty of 5 gold if you are in line of sight while the sheep is being attacked, regardless of whether you are the person attacking the sheep."

What?
Does this mean your character gets the bounty instead of the Gray Fox when you wear the cowl, or that even if an NPC or creature hits the sheep you get the bounty, or what?? If that is what it means it should say it, because like this it is confusing. [[User:4.90.14.130|4.90.14.130]] 00:07, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

:It means that even if a NPC, Bandit etc. was to strike a sheep, you would get the bounty [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:34, 10 February 2009 (EST)

== Slaughterfish location ==

In the article it says there only found in Lake Rumare (sorry if spelled wrong) but I have found them in other places, most prominantly in Nibin Bay in the middle of the bay. Anyone else have find them there? {{unsigned|76.113.169.61}}
:No, the article states that Rumare Slaughterfish are only found in lake rumare. It makes mention that regular slaughterfish are found all over the place. --[[User:Saruuk|Saruuk]] 23:30, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Dogs begging? ==

Anyone noticed you can make a dog beg (kinda) by holding a bone above it? Kinda neat. [[User:203.91.84.7|203.91.84.7]] 11:05, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
:Err, when you say "Kinda" what do you mean? If its just sitting htere then that's not begging, they do that anyway. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] 11:18, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
:: There's nothing in the CS about special actions dogs can do when faced with bones... other than sit there and pant, but they do that anyways. [[User:Vesna|Vesna]] 22:53, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

== Rumare Slaughterfish weakness or resistance? ==

The brief blurb on slaughterfish states that the Rumare Slaughterfish have a 50% resistance to shock, but the table shows them having a 50% weakness. Anyone know which version is correct? [[User:70.69.103.189|70.69.103.189]] 01:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
: Thanks for spotting that. It should be a weakness. Now corrected. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 01:46, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Slaughterfish ==
: ''(question moved to [[Oblivion_talk:Go Fish#Slaughterfish]])''

== Dogs as Pets ==

Here's a thought. If I wanted a dog strolling around my house as a pet, or even following me around the game world (or just the town), is there a way to do this? I would imagine that the named dogs in the game all have their own coding and as such won't work in another environment. However, any thoughts would be welcome. {{unsigned|87.127.79.8|29 July}}
: You'd have to write a mod to do it and give a dog the necessary AI package or follow commands. Without mods you could use a Command Creature spell, but you'd have to keep recasting it. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 13:05, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
::The CM Partners mod (http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7819) adds a handful of creatures including at least one dog that can be commanded as "minions", or companions with a diminshed set of available commands. The AI is not very good: the dog is constantly at your heels, causing the camera to continuously zoom in and out while you move; the dog has a tendency to launch itself off cliffs or otherwise kill itself; and it will attack anything on sight regardless of any commands you've given it. But if you're really desperate for a pet that will follow you anywhere and you don't want to create a mod yourself, I suppose it's better than nothing. The dog is tagged essential, which minimally offsets its suicidal tendencies. [[User:Phelaran|Phelaran]] 15:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

== New animal! ==

I made a discovery today. I found '''oysters''' in the waters around Fort Redman. Inside the oysters I found a pearl. I'm playing the Spanish version on a PS3.

Shadow hide you.
Agis Silverfish

: Oysters, though very nice things to find, aren't classified by the game as "animals". They're containers, which is why you can find stuff inside them. - [[User:Game_Lord|Game Lord]][[User_talk:Game_Lord|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Game_Lord|Contribs]] 09:13, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

:*Well you find "stuff" inside bears and rats also. I've found clams, but not oysters. Maybe a note on the animals page just for the sake of thoroughness.
:: No. As Game Lord already mentioned, they aren't animals. The English version of the game calls them "clams" but then you don't get pearls in clams. Maybe the Spanish version uses a better term. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:09, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

==Giant Slaughterfish==

Does anyone know if the Giant Slaughter fish respawns or appears before the [[Oblivion:Arrow of Extrication|Thieves Guild Quest]] is done? ([[User:Gadianzero|Gadianzero]] 14:01, 31 December 2008 (EST))
: It appears right at the start of the game, but doesn't respawn. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 14:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Sea Terror ==

Call this a fish story, but I was swimming outside Anvil when I encountered an enormous slaughterfish called the "Sea Terror". It was roughly the size of a ship (likely bigger than the current Giant) and it scared me into reloading. It looks like it was added by a mod but I can't identify which one (edit: now I'm 99% sure it's the Better Cities mod, after defeating a slightly smaller but still very scary Slaughterfish Shark). Just a warning to anyone swimming in the Abecean to stay near the shore. {{unsigned|68.189.104.11|14 March 2009}}

:I have found the Sea terror as well. After swimming south of Castle Anvil you will find a sunken ship. Spread out around this ship are 3 slaughter fish sharks, oversized slaughterfish. If you continue going south you will find the "Sea Terror" a slaughterfish that can eat you in one bite. I do not have the better cities mod installed. I think this may be part of vanilla. This should get its own article. Anyone feeling brave, or anyone who knows how to use TGM should definitly check this out. I am currently searching Oblivion.esm to try and find it. It was most likely hidden as an easter egg. {{unsigned|71.233.205.206|31 May 2009}}

::It is not an easter egg because it simply does not exist. There is no creature anywhere in Bethesda's version of the game called "Sea Terror" (or even with "terror" anywhere in its name). It comes from a third party mod and therefore has absolutely no relevance to UESP's article. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 13:46, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

:::After posting this I deactivated every mod I have and check in the same area. Again the Sea terror was present. I spent some time looking through the oblivion.esm and found nothing. Unless some mod permanently modified the oblivion.exe, it is definitly in vanilla oblivion. Tell me, before writing the above comment, did you even bother to look ingame for the Sea Terror? Go check for yourself. {{unsigned|71.233.205.206}}

:The Sea Terror is part of the Open Cities mod. It may be in some other city related mods. It is not openly labeled as being in the mod. Better cities mod is a compilation of diffrent city mods. I think that one city mod put in the Sea Terror as an easter egg, and when it was put into the full better cities mod it was never deleted. It may be in other city mods if they reused parts of other city mods. I have no idea what mod it originated from, but it is in better cities mod, and open cities mod. {{unsigned|71.233.205.206}}

:To answer your previous point/question, Nephele would certainly have checked in the Construction Set, if not in the game itself. As you later found out, the creature was added by a third-party mod. The reason it was still present in your game after removing all mods is probably that you had already visited the area, and so the creature was present in your save game. --[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 05:18, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

== Can you believe this? ==

I have found a flawless diamond and an ebony emerald ring from a dead mudcrab XD This proves that you can find something valuable from those lovely little crabs :P Believe it or not. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 07:47, 8 March 2009 (EDT)
:Funnily enough, yes. Every mudcrab has a 15% chance of carrying a "MicroTreasure". This means that you can find anything from gold to soul gems to silverware. Starting from level 5 you have a 25% chance that the loot will be anything from flawed gems to silver nuggets. To get a flawless diamond, however you have be at least level 17 and quite lucky. --[[User:SerCenKing|SerCenKing]] 12:44, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

Yeah,my character is now at level 48. :P I wonder what I'm going to get next from a lovely little mudcrab? Jeweled Amulet?

== Deer glitch ==

I have a problematic glitch.Suddenly all the deers in the world have turned hostile to me.The game behaves like I'm in combat,but the deers just stand there without doing anything.They are not running away from me for a strange reason.Does anyone know what causes this glitch and how to fix it? --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 13:38, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
: How do you know it's the deer? Are you sure it's not something else? What leads you to suggest that it's deer causing the problem? –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 16:47, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
There were no other things nearby than the deers. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 12:09, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
:I just had that exact problem. I was loitering outside Gweden Farm, and I couldn't 'wait' because there were 'enemies' around. One of my multitudinous mods (Race Balancing Project) gave my character a lesser power that attracts all nearby enemies. I cast it, and the only thing that came to me was a deer. After killing it, I could 'wait'. --[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 03:11, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Yeah...now they are not hostile to me anymore,but now I can't wait when they are near. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 03:14, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
: Curious... All deer have an aggression of 100 but a confidence of 0. I wonder if something had given some deer a morale boost? –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 05:28, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Maybe.I wonder what makes my game think that such harmless animals are enemies? O.o --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 05:33, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

: Possibly Martigen's Monster Mod. That's another of the mods I'm running (well, actually I'm running FCOM). That changes certain stats on a variety of NPCs and creatures - such as size, strength, base health - by a random factor (per individual) so possibly it also changes creatures' aggression and confidence. I'm not sure how the game calculates whether a creature/NPC attacks or flees, but perhaps this particular deer had values that made the game consider it an enemy. --[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 07:37, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

::I don't have MMM,but I have Docile Animals. Maybe that's causing the bug? --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 07:39, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

::: It's possible. I definitely think it's significant that both of you are running mods that sound like they ''might'' cause the behavior. I don't run anything like that and I've never seen it. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 07:46, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Hmm...I'll try to turn the mod off and see if that fixes it. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 07:48, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Nope,not working. My game still treats them as enemies. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 07:56, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
:Doesn't Oblivion ''always'' treat deer as enemies? I'm running vanilla Oblivion and deer have always been counted as enemies, though they just run away and the fight music never starts. I've just placed one via the console inside the Count's Arms in Anvil to verify, and when I tried to wait the 'eneimies nearby' message popped up. When I killed it, I could wait. [[User:Legoless|Legoless]] 13:13, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

::The issue was not that the deers were considered enemies, that's just a mechanic the game uses to make sure deers flee from you. Rather something gave them confidence that caused them to start attacking you, instead of always fleeing. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 07:41, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I have always been able to sleep near deer, hm oh well, anyway I have been attacked by a deer before. not just followed around with battle music, actually attacked. i had just killed a bandit and the battle music kept going so i just stood still, then a deer runs up and stops next to me waving its head from side to side like a retard, then, it jumped up on its back legs and pawed the air with its hooves like a horse except a little faster and more clumsy looking and i took damage, it also attacked by whipping its head in a diaganal upward-right motion however, it only did 1 or 2 damage. odd indeed, hmm? i am playing ps3 with SI but not GOTY disc if it makes a difference. possible explinations?([[User:Sdharly|Sdharly]] 01:14, 2 March 2010 (UTC))

== Boars - lvl 5 or 7? ==

The Boar Meat page says that you can encounter boars at lvl 5 (though only on roads) and on the Animals page it says: "They are encountered starting at level 7."
One of them must be wrong, but I can't look it up as I play the 360 version. So I'll leave that to someone else. :) [[User:Icko|Icko]] 08:12, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
:Neither is wrong. The standard level at which boars are encountered is level 7 (which is also stated on [[Oblivion:Boar Meat]]: "They are easiest to find from levels 7 to 15"). As with every other animal on the animal page (and every other creature on any of the [[Oblivion:Creatures|creature]] pages), it provides the standard level at which boars appear. This is explicitly stated in [[Oblivion:Animals#Standard|the section]] describing the levels: "The level provided for each creature in the "Lvl" column is the typical level at which the creature is first encountered. As bosses, creatures will generally be encountered two levels earlier; also, all animals generated along roads can be encountered two levels earlier." --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 11:41, 22 May 2009 (EDT)

==Steel Fang==
Just to note that I met Steel Fang (020020CD) in the Blackwood Guild (he attacked me unprovoked). I don't have any 'city' affecting mods installed, unless it's something the Unofficial Oblivion patch or Unofficial Oblivion Patch Hotfix did. The Blackwood members there didn't attack me, so I guess he's a different faction to them. {{Unsigned|81.159.85.28|20 December 2009}}
:Yeah - it's a bug in the "post-UOP" UOP releases. They added him to the hall, but obviously never tested it. He is actually in the Blackwood Faction even in the unpatched game, but his Agression/Confidence/whatever are high enough that he attacks you because you're ''not''. {{unsigned|24.180.46.112|12 April 2010}}
::Lets just call that an oops. It'll be fixed in the next UOP Supplemental update. [[User:Arthmoor|Arthmoor]] 11:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== Shepard Dog ==

I was raiding bandit camps north of chorrol for armor and weapons to sell, and I ran into an apparently unique dog named "Shepherd Dog." any Ideas? [[Special:Contributions/97.122.184.109|97.122.184.109]] 09:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
:Is there any chance that it could have been [[Oblivion:Sakeepa's Dog|Sakeepa's Dog]]? It makes some sense since [[Oblivion:Sakeepa|Sakeepa]] is a sheperd. -[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 04:23, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

It couldnt be. Sakeepa's dog is named "Sakeepa's dog"

== Cleanup ==

I've just removed the cleanup tag after having spent a good hour CS checking all of the levels at which each creature will start to appear. I've corrected a few levels where they were wrong, added a few more locations for deer and slaughterfish and included two overlooked arena ceratures. I've also corrected (?) the levels at which you may encounter various creatures in the Arena. However, my values differ significantly from the previous ones so it would be helpful if someone could look over it. As for splitting the dead and test creatures in a new page, I don't mind either way. Thoughts? Suggestions? --[[User:SerCenKing|SerCenKing]] [[User talk:SerCenKing|Talk]] 12:58, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

: Thinking about it again, maybe we ought to leave them here. There wouldn't be much benefit in splitting them off - the page isn't ''that'' big. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 09:01, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== picture ==

why is there somebody standing next to the giant mud carb in the picture?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 23:10, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:It's so you can see the size difference. -[[User:DevotedInsanity|DevotedInsanity]] 23:40, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

ohh...now it makes sence--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 00:17, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== AWWW RATS! ==

My character is somehow glitched, and getting 1hit K/O by RATS, mountain lions, and wolves! I just hit level 14 and somehow everything can do 206 damage in one hit to a person in full mithril...

== The amazing Diving Bear ==

Greetings,

I am playing an Argonian. I was in Tidewater Cave, trying to retrieve the Eye of Nocturnal. I was getting badly hit by a black bear and I thought I could dive to safety and restore myself. Big mistake. The black bear DIVED well into the end of the cave where I was hidden and attacked me. I tried to fight back but in the end I had to swim away and run for my life. Beware of the diving bear! {{Unsigned|85.60.73.171|20:38, 22 September 2010}}

:Bears can swim, both in the game and in real life, so this isn't really a surprise. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 22:44, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

::Yes, that's right. But can they dive? I am not so sure. And fight underwater? {{Unsigned|85.60.73.171|17:20, 23 September 2010}}

:::I'm no expert on the intricacies of Oblivion, but as far as I know, anything that's marked as being able to swim can also dive. How the game handles breathing underwater, that I don't know. It could be that anything marked as being able to swim can automatically breathe underwater, or it could be that it has some logic to encourage them to re-surface as needed, or it could even be that it'll happily let them drown if they run out of air. I know some creatures can drown, but I'm not really sure of the specifics there. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 20:27, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

== Huh? ==

How do you get a disease from a '''non-hostile''' animal like sheep or deer? I thought you could only get diseases from '''hostile''' animals. Or am I just crazy? [[Special:Contributions/68.62.84.131|68.62.84.131]] 18:29, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

If you modify their confidence and they fight you. Also some animals that are normally non-hostile like horses can be goaded into attacking you.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''Ghurhak gro-Demril''' or TAO]][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|Yes?]] 20:33, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

:: I.e. Using a rally spell on deer.

== Boars stopped attack ==

For the two of my most played characters the boars have stopped attacking and it is possible to wait when thet are nearby. They simply does not count as enemies. However, they still attack horses and NPC´s. Could this be a glitch or does it just happen to me?[[User:Kameo|Kameo]] 13:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:Do you happen to be wearing the [[Oblivion:Boots_of_the_Crusader#Boots_of_the_Crusader|Boots of the Crusader]]? The boots makes certain animals non hostile towards you. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 13:58, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

No, Knights of the Nine wasn´t even installed one time. And all other animals attack me as usual. But the Boars do attack me if I have my weapon ready. Come to think of it, the dogs behave the same way.[[User:Kameo|Kameo]] 15:32, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Animals

2010-10-18T21:05:54Z

Gorilladin: /* Shepard Dog */

==Page Reorganization==
To explain some of what I just did to this page:
* I have merged all the animals (previously split between [[Oblivion:Creatures_Predators]] and [[Oblivion:Creatures_Passive]]) into a single page, now titled "Animals".
* The only exception are the horses: all horse stats are now on the [[Oblivion:Horses]] page.
* The name "Animals" was chosen for consistency with references on place pages and elsewhere.
Basically, any type of division of the animals into separate lists ended up being arbitrary and messy, with exceptions that just didn't really work however things were done. So I decided to just combine them (and with the removal of all the horse info, the "passive" page was much shorter).

The other changes are all comparable to the changes that I've previously done to [[Oblivion:Undead]] and [[Oblivion:Daedra]] (with some explanation at [[Oblivion Talk:Undead]]). I've still got some more work to do over the next couple days (especially filling in all the descriptions and overview paragraphs), but the major rearranging is all done. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 00:41, 2 February 2007 (EST)

: I'm currently thinking about adding pictures to [[Bloodmoon:Creatures]] and was directed over here to watch. In my opinion it should be avoided to implement information more than once, and I have seen that this is possible if you ''include'' small sections into one summary page (actually I have seen that on some actifacts pages in Morrowind). It would be nice to have a statement from someone knowledgeable if that is a useable way of doing it. Thanks, [[User:Adjego|Adjego]] 07:38, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::While I tend to be obsessive about avoiding duplicate information, there are times when I think it may be a necessary evil. And this is likely to be one of those cases.
::First, the format being used for the summaries on the creature page is different from the summaries being used on the individual pages. It may not be too noticeable with the animals, because there are relatively few noteworthy details with the animals. But compare, for example, the information at [[Oblivion:Lich]] with that at [[Oblivion:Creatures#Lich]]. The creature page provides only the basic "quick-look" type of information, whereas the undead page provides more comprehensive information. Some of the information on the creature summary is moved from the summary into the tables on the undead page (sometimes with extra details, sometimes with differences between variants of the creature). It would be possible to revamp the two to have a more similar format, but I don't think either page would be improved in the process.
::Second, the transclusion/include/noinclude system has limitations. The way it's implemented is very inefficient. For example, everything on the included page (even the noinclude sections) initially gets stuffed into the main page; only after the wiki has fully assembled the megapage doese it then start parsing out the bits it doesn't want. The upshot of which is that taking a dozen large pages and transcluding 5% of each of them into a summary page is likely to produce a page that can hardly be edited or viewed (such as the [[Morrowind:Artifacts]] page before it was just broken up into four smaller pages).
::Avoiding duplicate information is a priority on the site, but primarily because of concerns about keeping duplicates in sync. A higher priority is to make sure that readers can what they're looking for in a useful, informative format. And if two different pages require different formats, then it's probably better to just provide the information twice (once in each format) instead of trying to shoehorn two different needs into the same size shoe. That's my opinion, at least. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 14:30, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::: I see the point concerning a brief and nice overview page and the detailed one, and agree that they are often too different to add up.
::: For the second part, I don't see where there is the big ineffective part - given we include only pages that contain almost no noinclude parts. But that's only server power we require, and hey, we can choose our thumbnailformat from six possible resolutions, which again are recalculated by the server, and then cached. But cacheing can also be done for pages (in my opinion without being sure about the wiki-system, if it really can do that). Besides, the [[Morrowind:Weapon_Artifacts]] is built out of includes only, and that enables you to have a nice overview list or an individual page for one of those artifacts. (But maybe [[User:DrPhoton|DrPhoton]] is going to bake it together to one real page to increase the speed, I didn't ask.) (And hey, you are one of the administrators and should know about speed issues, so maybe I just take it like that...)
::: Well, thank you for the help, I'm going to think about a nice overview page then. Maybe, have a look at [[User:Adjego/Tinbox|my tinbox]] at the last section and tell me what you think about it ? Thanks, [[User:Adjego|Adjego]] 18:03, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::::The issue with transcluding pages isn't the images, the image thumbnail size, or whether the images are cached. The issue is actually with the text on the page, and more specifically with any templates on the page (any bits using <code><nowiki>{{...}}</nowiki></code> tags). The whole reason why the [[Morrowind:Artifacts]] page was split up into pages like [[Morrowind:Weapon Artifacts]] is because the page is created solely out of includes (or templates, or transclusions, depending upon your preferred terminology). There were too many of them when they were all on a single page, as had been the case at the original Artifacts page. The new subarticles are not going to be combined back into a single large article because the problem would be even worse than it had been before. You can look over the discussion at [[Morrowind talk:Artifacts#Problem Saving Page]] if you want. Or the related discussions at the [[UESPWiki:Community_Portal#Problems_Saving_Pages|Community Portal]] and [[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard#Pages_Missing|Administrator Noticeboard]] (and the links from there to even older discussions, some of which start to get into the technical issues of why template calls are so inefficient).
::::This isn't to say that including articles shouldn't be done. In most cases it is the best way to deal with two articles that need to contain the same information. But it's best when the included article is relatively small and/or uncomplicated. An article like [[Oblivion:Animals|Animals]] that's already 44 kB in size and contains dozens of template calls is likely to cause problems, especially if multiple similar (or larger) articles are also going to be included into the same article. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 18:49, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== Black Bear Glitch ==

:''It is interesting to note that both black and brown bears(not cubs) have an interesting glitch sometimes encountered. when the player spot one, there is a chance it will be levitating in the air of a height up to 3 feet. the bear will move in a swim-like manner and will keep moving this way until the player is spotted or it dies. also, shooting it with any bow and any arrow type while it does not see the player and is still floating will not damage it.''
Can anyone confirm this note posted in the Black Bear section of the article? I've never seen this happen myself, but maybe other people have and can say what might be going on here? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 23:28, 4 March 2007 (EST)

== Schemer, pet of the Dark Brotherhood. ==

Schemer is a unique rat who is a member of the Dark Brotherhood(killing him gets you expelled). He is found in the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary in Cheydinhal. I am thinking he deserves his own page rather then simply being lumped under this list of animals. Schemer is more prominent in the game then say, Llevana Nedaren's Tunnel Rats(which it appears next to). I am going to ahead and create it, if anyone has any objections, please send me a message(don't just delete it). [[User:Oblivion alchemyskillz|Oblivion alchemyskillz]] 20:46, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

:I really don't see how Schemer is more prominent in the game. If I recall correctly, Llevana Nedaren's rats actually play a role in a quest, and Schemer never does. I don't see the point in making a page just for a rat that never does anything. --[[User:Eshe|Eshe]] 20:52, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

::It is present in the game more often. If you don't kill it during the Purification quest(whatever its called) it can be there the entire game. Sure it doesn't do anything( not related to quests, doesn't offer services) but then again neither do a lot of NPCs who have pages(Dorian, Lazare Milvan, several people in the Waterfront, etc.) Its a member of a faction and it has a unique name. I might as well just revert it, though, I just now figured out I don't understand how to get rid of the redirect to the Animals page. [[User:Oblivion alchemyskillz|Oblivion alchemyskillz]] 20:59, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

:::Probably a good idea. I have a feeling it wouldn't go over well...seems more like an action based on opinion than something that is actually justified. For things like this, it's usually a good idea to get a community opinion ''before'' making major changes. --[[User:Eshe|Eshe]] 21:03, 9 July 2007 (EDT)
:::: Ah alright. Now that I think about it doesn't make all that much sense. Perhaps I will stick to expanding the section on the Animals page? [[User:Oblivion alchemyskillz|Oblivion alchemyskillz]] 21:10, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

::::: Yep, I'd agree that just expanding the section on the Animals page makes the most sense. If you're able to find 2-3 paragraphs worth of information on Schemer, then it's worth discussing again whether or not a separate page is needed. In general, new pages should really only be created if there is enough information to fill a page, or if it is necessary for consistency (e.g., all NPCs have pages, even if some of those pages are short). With the existing redirect, there is no navigational advantage to having a separate page. Also, even if eventually a separate page is added, I would suggest that Schemer's entry on the Animals page needs to remain in place: the Rats section provides a complete list of all the rats in the game, and Schemer needs to be included in that list for it to be complete, whether or not he has his own page. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 22:07, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

== Mountain Lion ==

Mountain lions have a different roar than the one currently in the game. They also look different in real life, unless by mountain lion they weren't referring to the cougar.--[[User:Papito007|Papito007]] 15:28, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
:They're more likely based on Affrican/Indian Lionesses because they look more like them (except they are slightly smaller in size) and can roar (Cougars/Pumas apparently cannot roar), however I do not know why the developers called them 'mountain' Lions.--[[User:Willyhead|Willyhead]] 08:30, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

User [[User:78.85.36.43|78.85.36.43]] changed the note in the article concerning Mountain Lions, saying they appeared at level 10, rather than level 12. I reverted this change. Here's why.

Mountain Lions are in a host of levelled lists. In the vast majority of the spawn points of these levelled lists, they will not appear until level 12. However, in LL1RoadHighlands, which is used in 6 places, they will appear at level 10. In fact, there's a chance of getting 2 of them at level 10 at these spawn points.

A single mountain lion may also appear at the 5 spawn points for LL1RoadMountains, the 12 spawn points for LL1RoadPlains, and the single spawn point for LL1RoadRainforest. Given that the levelled lists where they are listed at level 12 have over 300 spawn points, I think it is safe to say that in the majority of cases they won't appear until level 12.

[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 08:42, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
:Although Saruuk's solution is better than my waffle. --[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 08:44, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

::Just to followup on the creature levels. On all of the pages the levels usually quoted are the '''standard''' levels, i.e., the levels from the most "standard" lists that spawn those creatures. But all creatures will in fact be found at lower levels in "non-standard" situations: boss versions of creatures will appear two levels earlier than usual (and all "road" versions of wilderness creatures are spawned using boss levels). Some creatures will be found even earlier than that in various specialized situations (certain quests, for example, or other rare places that use unique leveled lists). I made a decision when putting all of these pages together to use the standard level as the typical value because I think it is the most representative. For example, I don't think it's too useful in a table (where no extra info is provided) to quote that Flame Atronachs are found at level 4, even though, yes, that is theoretically possible. The only place you'll find a Flame Atronach at level 4 is one single creature in the count's chambers in Castle Kvatch. Instead, every table states that you'll find Flame Atronachs at level 9 because there are some 500+ locations where they'll appear at level 9.
::I think more details on the lists are completely appropriate at a place like [[Oblivion:Mountain Lion]]. I'm also trying to add the info to the various ingredient pages. However, I don't think that the numbers should be arbitrarily changed in tables such as those on [[Oblivion:Creatures]]. At the least, a change to those tables should only be made if everyone feels that '''all''' of the creature levels need to be altered '''everywhere'''. Otherwise, the values provided for Mountain Lions are inconsistent with every other entry on the page. Also, on [[Oblivion:Animals]] it explicitly states that the listed values are currently '''standard''' values:
:::''The above table shows which creatures belong to each of the standard leveled lists, and the level at which you will normally start to encounter the creature. These are the typical levels, but exceptions do exist, which are detailed with the creature statistics. Two common exceptions are boss-level creatures and creatures encountered along roads, both which will be encountered two levels lower than the typical level.''
::Finally, FYI, details on the leveled lists used to spawn Mountain Lions (and all other creatures) outside are provided at [[Oblivion:Outdoors Creatures|Outdoors Creatures]]. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:36, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

== Porkchop ==

Also besides the Rat, you should also get a page for Porkchop, plus a picture, since I like pigs, anyway I think you should have a separate page for him because he is a character in the Arena Bloodworks 24/7, plus he plays a major role also by giving you a great deal of help by the last Hero Match, the Champion Title, thank you!!

PS: May you look at my Idea on this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Mod_Ideas/Creatures
It's called Crossbows and Pets and maybe get ideas from that?, thank you!!

== Hjalti ==

Hey I was right about helping, because you should put in Hjalti, the Fighter's Stronghold pet Wolf into unique wolves section because I saw how you put in the graphs, but I wasn't too sure.

:Does anyone know if Hjalti respawns if you kill him? ([[User:Gadianzero|Gadianzero]] 14:01, 31 December 2008 (EST))

:: No, he doesn't. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 14:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Bacon ==

Sorry to bother you guys again, but if you have nothing else to do, besides the Rat, Porkchop and Hjalti, may you also make a separate page for the Warthog/Boar Bacon, after all, he's in Dunbarrow Cove forever because he's essential and he's there because he's the pet of Khafiz, thank you!!
--[[User:68.194.37.234|68.194.37.234]] 20:11, 26 November 2007 (EST)
:Thanks for your interest. It is being done. You can see the progress on [[UESPWiki:Oblivion Creatures Project]]. --[[User:Mankar Camoran|Mankar Camoran]]•[[User_Talk:Mankar Camoran|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Mankar Camoran|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Mankar Camoran|E]]• 09:08, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== Giant Mudcrabs ==
I've never really got involved with this wiki before and don't want to make an edit, but the entry on mudcrabs says there's only one Giant Mudcrab, found in Greenmead Cave. I encountered two mudcrabs of about two or three times usual size (but with apparently normal stats) in the Wizard's Grotto during the Arrow of Extrication mission. Can anyone else confirm this?

: I have done this quest, the mudcrabs are normal. Glitch? Fix? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:35, 10 February 2009 (EST)

I found giant mudcrabs there to [[User:HighDrive|HighDrive]] 02:33, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

==Lazare Milvan's Rat==
Lazare Milvan has a rat in his basement which is very unique according to Lazare Milvan's page, because it says that it's level related and a test object, so I think he should be added to "unique rats". [[User:Moersleuteltje|Moersleuteltje]] 12:07, 2 March 2008 (EST)Moersleuteltje

:That rat is already listed on the article at [[Oblivion:Animals#Lazare Milvan's Rat]]. The rat is listed in the standard part of the Rat listing (instead of under Unique Rats) because its name is simply "Rat": it does not have a unique name. Therefore most people will not be able to recognize that the rat is any way different from all of the other animals identified as "Rat". That's what has been done everywhere else in the article. --12:46, 2 March 2008 (EST)

::I just encountered that thing... moved like lightning. Does it respawn? --[[User:24.118.124.166|24.118.124.166]] 22:26, 18 January 2009 (EST)

:::No, it does not respawn. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 13:05, 23 January 2009 (EST)

::::While true that it does not have a unique name, it is a single rat not found elsewhere with unique stats. For instance, under "Mudcrabs" in Creatures the Giant Mudcrab of Greenmead Cave is listed, although to my knowledge the only thing different about it is it's size, not it's name or what it carries. -[[User:204.169.115.103|204.169.115.103]] 10:05, 30 January 2009 (EST)

:::::Ummm, sorry, but I really don't what you're suggesting needs to be done any differently. As I already said nearly a year ago, this rat already has its own entry on the article, providing its full statisics, in as much detail as every other animal, unique or common. Which is in fact much more than is provided for the giant mudcrab (which does not have an entry in a table, just a mention in the text to explain that it is really a regular mudcrab). What more can possibly be detailed about this rat? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 10:33, 30 January 2009 (EST)

== Sheep rumors ==

Ive heard this on many sites and also alot of youtube videos, it says that if you got to a farm with some grapes and use the grab control on the grapes and hold it in front of a sheep, it would eat it, and then start to follow you. Is this true? --[[User:Umbacano|Umbacano]] 3:25 , 5 April 2008 (EDT)
: Did you read that on April Fool's day? It's not true. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 08:37, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
:: However it does work with apples on the sheep outside of Skingrad. Tested it several times on 360 GoTY. You hold the apple infront of the sheep and then add it to your inventory. you have to move pretty slowly or else they won't follow for very far and from what i've found they will not follow farther then the end of the Vineyards (any direction) nor will they enter Skingrad. [[User:Lord Eydvar|Lord Eydvar]] 23:08, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

== You? ==

"Striking a sheep is illegal and will give you a bounty of 5 gold if you are in line of sight while the sheep is being attacked, regardless of whether you are the person attacking the sheep."

What?
Does this mean your character gets the bounty instead of the Gray Fox when you wear the cowl, or that even if an NPC or creature hits the sheep you get the bounty, or what?? If that is what it means it should say it, because like this it is confusing. [[User:4.90.14.130|4.90.14.130]] 00:07, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

:It means that even if a NPC, Bandit etc. was to strike a sheep, you would get the bounty [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:34, 10 February 2009 (EST)

== Slaughterfish location ==

In the article it says there only found in Lake Rumare (sorry if spelled wrong) but I have found them in other places, most prominantly in Nibin Bay in the middle of the bay. Anyone else have find them there? {{unsigned|76.113.169.61}}
:No, the article states that Rumare Slaughterfish are only found in lake rumare. It makes mention that regular slaughterfish are found all over the place. --[[User:Saruuk|Saruuk]] 23:30, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Dogs begging? ==

Anyone noticed you can make a dog beg (kinda) by holding a bone above it? Kinda neat. [[User:203.91.84.7|203.91.84.7]] 11:05, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
:Err, when you say "Kinda" what do you mean? If its just sitting htere then that's not begging, they do that anyway. --[[User:Volanaro|Volanaro]] 11:18, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
:: There's nothing in the CS about special actions dogs can do when faced with bones... other than sit there and pant, but they do that anyways. [[User:Vesna|Vesna]] 22:53, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

== Rumare Slaughterfish weakness or resistance? ==

The brief blurb on slaughterfish states that the Rumare Slaughterfish have a 50% resistance to shock, but the table shows them having a 50% weakness. Anyone know which version is correct? [[User:70.69.103.189|70.69.103.189]] 01:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
: Thanks for spotting that. It should be a weakness. Now corrected. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 01:46, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Slaughterfish ==
: ''(question moved to [[Oblivion_talk:Go Fish#Slaughterfish]])''

== Dogs as Pets ==

Here's a thought. If I wanted a dog strolling around my house as a pet, or even following me around the game world (or just the town), is there a way to do this? I would imagine that the named dogs in the game all have their own coding and as such won't work in another environment. However, any thoughts would be welcome. {{unsigned|87.127.79.8|29 July}}
: You'd have to write a mod to do it and give a dog the necessary AI package or follow commands. Without mods you could use a Command Creature spell, but you'd have to keep recasting it. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 13:05, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
::The CM Partners mod (http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7819) adds a handful of creatures including at least one dog that can be commanded as "minions", or companions with a diminshed set of available commands. The AI is not very good: the dog is constantly at your heels, causing the camera to continuously zoom in and out while you move; the dog has a tendency to launch itself off cliffs or otherwise kill itself; and it will attack anything on sight regardless of any commands you've given it. But if you're really desperate for a pet that will follow you anywhere and you don't want to create a mod yourself, I suppose it's better than nothing. The dog is tagged essential, which minimally offsets its suicidal tendencies. [[User:Phelaran|Phelaran]] 15:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

== New animal! ==

I made a discovery today. I found '''oysters''' in the waters around Fort Redman. Inside the oysters I found a pearl. I'm playing the Spanish version on a PS3.

Shadow hide you.
Agis Silverfish

: Oysters, though very nice things to find, aren't classified by the game as "animals". They're containers, which is why you can find stuff inside them. - [[User:Game_Lord|Game Lord]][[User_talk:Game_Lord|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Game_Lord|Contribs]] 09:13, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

:*Well you find "stuff" inside bears and rats also. I've found clams, but not oysters. Maybe a note on the animals page just for the sake of thoroughness.
:: No. As Game Lord already mentioned, they aren't animals. The English version of the game calls them "clams" but then you don't get pearls in clams. Maybe the Spanish version uses a better term. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 10:09, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

==Giant Slaughterfish==

Does anyone know if the Giant Slaughter fish respawns or appears before the [[Oblivion:Arrow of Extrication|Thieves Guild Quest]] is done? ([[User:Gadianzero|Gadianzero]] 14:01, 31 December 2008 (EST))
: It appears right at the start of the game, but doesn't respawn. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 14:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Sea Terror ==

Call this a fish story, but I was swimming outside Anvil when I encountered an enormous slaughterfish called the "Sea Terror". It was roughly the size of a ship (likely bigger than the current Giant) and it scared me into reloading. It looks like it was added by a mod but I can't identify which one (edit: now I'm 99% sure it's the Better Cities mod, after defeating a slightly smaller but still very scary Slaughterfish Shark). Just a warning to anyone swimming in the Abecean to stay near the shore. {{unsigned|68.189.104.11|14 March 2009}}

:I have found the Sea terror as well. After swimming south of Castle Anvil you will find a sunken ship. Spread out around this ship are 3 slaughter fish sharks, oversized slaughterfish. If you continue going south you will find the "Sea Terror" a slaughterfish that can eat you in one bite. I do not have the better cities mod installed. I think this may be part of vanilla. This should get its own article. Anyone feeling brave, or anyone who knows how to use TGM should definitly check this out. I am currently searching Oblivion.esm to try and find it. It was most likely hidden as an easter egg. {{unsigned|71.233.205.206|31 May 2009}}

::It is not an easter egg because it simply does not exist. There is no creature anywhere in Bethesda's version of the game called "Sea Terror" (or even with "terror" anywhere in its name). It comes from a third party mod and therefore has absolutely no relevance to UESP's article. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 13:46, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

:::After posting this I deactivated every mod I have and check in the same area. Again the Sea terror was present. I spent some time looking through the oblivion.esm and found nothing. Unless some mod permanently modified the oblivion.exe, it is definitly in vanilla oblivion. Tell me, before writing the above comment, did you even bother to look ingame for the Sea Terror? Go check for yourself. {{unsigned|71.233.205.206}}

:The Sea Terror is part of the Open Cities mod. It may be in some other city related mods. It is not openly labeled as being in the mod. Better cities mod is a compilation of diffrent city mods. I think that one city mod put in the Sea Terror as an easter egg, and when it was put into the full better cities mod it was never deleted. It may be in other city mods if they reused parts of other city mods. I have no idea what mod it originated from, but it is in better cities mod, and open cities mod. {{unsigned|71.233.205.206}}

:To answer your previous point/question, Nephele would certainly have checked in the Construction Set, if not in the game itself. As you later found out, the creature was added by a third-party mod. The reason it was still present in your game after removing all mods is probably that you had already visited the area, and so the creature was present in your save game. --[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 05:18, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

== Can you believe this? ==

I have found a flawless diamond and an ebony emerald ring from a dead mudcrab XD This proves that you can find something valuable from those lovely little crabs :P Believe it or not. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 07:47, 8 March 2009 (EDT)
:Funnily enough, yes. Every mudcrab has a 15% chance of carrying a "MicroTreasure". This means that you can find anything from gold to soul gems to silverware. Starting from level 5 you have a 25% chance that the loot will be anything from flawed gems to silver nuggets. To get a flawless diamond, however you have be at least level 17 and quite lucky. --[[User:SerCenKing|SerCenKing]] 12:44, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

Yeah,my character is now at level 48. :P I wonder what I'm going to get next from a lovely little mudcrab? Jeweled Amulet?

== Deer glitch ==

I have a problematic glitch.Suddenly all the deers in the world have turned hostile to me.The game behaves like I'm in combat,but the deers just stand there without doing anything.They are not running away from me for a strange reason.Does anyone know what causes this glitch and how to fix it? --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 13:38, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
: How do you know it's the deer? Are you sure it's not something else? What leads you to suggest that it's deer causing the problem? –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 16:47, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
There were no other things nearby than the deers. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 12:09, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
:I just had that exact problem. I was loitering outside Gweden Farm, and I couldn't 'wait' because there were 'enemies' around. One of my multitudinous mods (Race Balancing Project) gave my character a lesser power that attracts all nearby enemies. I cast it, and the only thing that came to me was a deer. After killing it, I could 'wait'. --[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 03:11, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Yeah...now they are not hostile to me anymore,but now I can't wait when they are near. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 03:14, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
: Curious... All deer have an aggression of 100 but a confidence of 0. I wonder if something had given some deer a morale boost? –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 05:28, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Maybe.I wonder what makes my game think that such harmless animals are enemies? O.o --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 05:33, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

: Possibly Martigen's Monster Mod. That's another of the mods I'm running (well, actually I'm running FCOM). That changes certain stats on a variety of NPCs and creatures - such as size, strength, base health - by a random factor (per individual) so possibly it also changes creatures' aggression and confidence. I'm not sure how the game calculates whether a creature/NPC attacks or flees, but perhaps this particular deer had values that made the game consider it an enemy. --[[User:Gaebrial|Gaebrial]] 07:37, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

::I don't have MMM,but I have Docile Animals. Maybe that's causing the bug? --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 07:39, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

::: It's possible. I definitely think it's significant that both of you are running mods that sound like they ''might'' cause the behavior. I don't run anything like that and I've never seen it. –[[User:Rpeh|Rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 07:46, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Hmm...I'll try to turn the mod off and see if that fixes it. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 07:48, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Nope,not working. My game still treats them as enemies. --[[User:Neekerisanni123|Neekerisanni123]] 07:56, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
:Doesn't Oblivion ''always'' treat deer as enemies? I'm running vanilla Oblivion and deer have always been counted as enemies, though they just run away and the fight music never starts. I've just placed one via the console inside the Count's Arms in Anvil to verify, and when I tried to wait the 'eneimies nearby' message popped up. When I killed it, I could wait. [[User:Legoless|Legoless]] 13:13, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

::The issue was not that the deers were considered enemies, that's just a mechanic the game uses to make sure deers flee from you. Rather something gave them confidence that caused them to start attacking you, instead of always fleeing. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 07:41, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I have always been able to sleep near deer, hm oh well, anyway I have been attacked by a deer before. not just followed around with battle music, actually attacked. i had just killed a bandit and the battle music kept going so i just stood still, then a deer runs up and stops next to me waving its head from side to side like a retard, then, it jumped up on its back legs and pawed the air with its hooves like a horse except a little faster and more clumsy looking and i took damage, it also attacked by whipping its head in a diaganal upward-right motion however, it only did 1 or 2 damage. odd indeed, hmm? i am playing ps3 with SI but not GOTY disc if it makes a difference. possible explinations?([[User:Sdharly|Sdharly]] 01:14, 2 March 2010 (UTC))

== Boars - lvl 5 or 7? ==

The Boar Meat page says that you can encounter boars at lvl 5 (though only on roads) and on the Animals page it says: "They are encountered starting at level 7."
One of them must be wrong, but I can't look it up as I play the 360 version. So I'll leave that to someone else. :) [[User:Icko|Icko]] 08:12, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
:Neither is wrong. The standard level at which boars are encountered is level 7 (which is also stated on [[Oblivion:Boar Meat]]: "They are easiest to find from levels 7 to 15"). As with every other animal on the animal page (and every other creature on any of the [[Oblivion:Creatures|creature]] pages), it provides the standard level at which boars appear. This is explicitly stated in [[Oblivion:Animals#Standard|the section]] describing the levels: "The level provided for each creature in the "Lvl" column is the typical level at which the creature is first encountered. As bosses, creatures will generally be encountered two levels earlier; also, all animals generated along roads can be encountered two levels earlier." --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 11:41, 22 May 2009 (EDT)

==Steel Fang==
Just to note that I met Steel Fang (020020CD) in the Blackwood Guild (he attacked me unprovoked). I don't have any 'city' affecting mods installed, unless it's something the Unofficial Oblivion patch or Unofficial Oblivion Patch Hotfix did. The Blackwood members there didn't attack me, so I guess he's a different faction to them. {{Unsigned|81.159.85.28|20 December 2009}}
:Yeah - it's a bug in the "post-UOP" UOP releases. They added him to the hall, but obviously never tested it. He is actually in the Blackwood Faction even in the unpatched game, but his Agression/Confidence/whatever are high enough that he attacks you because you're ''not''. {{unsigned|24.180.46.112|12 April 2010}}
::Lets just call that an oops. It'll be fixed in the next UOP Supplemental update. [[User:Arthmoor|Arthmoor]] 11:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== Shepard Dog ==

I was raiding bandit camps north of chorrol for armor and weapons to sell, and I ran into an apparently unique dog named "Shepherd Dog." any Ideas? [[Special:Contributions/97.122.184.109|97.122.184.109]] 09:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
:Is there any chance that it could have been [[Oblivion:Sakeepa's Dog|Sakeepa's Dog]]? It makes some sense since [[Oblivion:Sakeepa|Sakeepa]] is a sheperd. -[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 04:23, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

It couldnt be. Sakeepa's dog is named "Sakeepa's dog"

== Cleanup ==

I've just removed the cleanup tag after having spent a good hour CS checking all of the levels at which each creature will start to appear. I've corrected a few levels where they were wrong, added a few more locations for deer and slaughterfish and included two overlooked arena ceratures. I've also corrected (?) the levels at which you may encounter various creatures in the Arena. However, my values differ significantly from the previous ones so it would be helpful if someone could look over it. As for splitting the dead and test creatures in a new page, I don't mind either way. Thoughts? Suggestions? --[[User:SerCenKing|SerCenKing]] [[User talk:SerCenKing|Talk]] 12:58, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

: Thinking about it again, maybe we ought to leave them here. There wouldn't be much benefit in splitting them off - the page isn't ''that'' big. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 09:01, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== picture ==

why is there somebody standing next to the giant mud carb in the picture?--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 23:10, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:It's so you can see the size difference. -[[User:DevotedInsanity|DevotedInsanity]] 23:40, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

ohh...now it makes sence--[[User:GUM!!!|GUM!!!]] 00:17, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== AWWW RATS! ==

My character is somehow glitched, and getting 1hit K/O by RATS, mountain lions, and wolves! I just hit level 14 and somehow everything can do 206 damage in one hit to a person in full mithril...

== The amazing Diving Bear ==

Greetings,

I am playing an Argonian. I was in Tidewater Cave, trying to retrieve the Eye of Nocturnal. I was getting badly hit by a black bear and I thought I could dive to safety and restore myself. Big mistake. The black bear DIVED well into the end of the cave where I was hidden and attacked me. I tried to fight back but in the end I had to swim away and run for my life. Beware of the diving bear! {{Unsigned|85.60.73.171|20:38, 22 September 2010}}

:Bears can swim, both in the game and in real life, so this isn't really a surprise. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 22:44, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

::Yes, that's right. But can they dive? I am not so sure. And fight underwater? {{Unsigned|85.60.73.171|17:20, 23 September 2010}}

:::I'm no expert on the intricacies of Oblivion, but as far as I know, anything that's marked as being able to swim can also dive. How the game handles breathing underwater, that I don't know. It could be that anything marked as being able to swim can automatically breathe underwater, or it could be that it has some logic to encourage them to re-surface as needed, or it could even be that it'll happily let them drown if they run out of air. I know some creatures can drown, but I'm not really sure of the specifics there. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 20:27, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

== Huh? ==

How do you get a disease from a '''non-hostile''' animal like sheep or deer? I thought you could only get diseases from '''hostile''' animals. Or am I just crazy? [[Special:Contributions/68.62.84.131|68.62.84.131]] 18:29, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

If you modify their confidence and they fight you. Also some animals that are normally non-hostile like horses can be goaded into attacking you.--[[User:TheAlbinoOrc|'''Ghurhak gro-Demril''' or TAO]][[User_talk:TheAlbinoOrc|Yes?]] 20:33, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Boars stopped attack ==

For the two of my most played characters the boars have stopped attacking and it is possible to wait when thet are nearby. They simply does not count as enemies. However, they still attack horses and NPC´s. Could this be a glitch or does it just happen to me?[[User:Kameo|Kameo]] 13:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:Do you happen to be wearing the [[Oblivion:Boots_of_the_Crusader#Boots_of_the_Crusader|Boots of the Crusader]]? The boots makes certain animals non hostile towards you. -- [[User:Jplatinum16|Jplatinum16]] 13:58, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

No, Knights of the Nine wasn´t even installed one time. And all other animals attack me as usual. But the Boars do attack me if I have my weapon ready. Come to think of it, the dogs behave the same way.[[User:Kameo|Kameo]] 15:32, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Horses

2010-10-18T20:12:21Z

Gorilladin: /* Wild Horses */

{| class="wikitable compress" style="float: right;"
! Archives
|-
| [[Oblivion_talk:Horses/Archive|Archive]]: 2006 - 2008
|}
__TOC__
== "Useful" spell? ==

From the article...
::''Some other useful spells to consider for your horse are:''
::* '''''[[Oblivion:Invisibility|Invisibility]]''''' ''allows you to ride your horse undetected. You need to first cast an invisibility spell on your horse, and then cast one on yourself, and quickly mount the horse. Mounting an invisible horse does not make it visible again.''
::* ''NOTE: Mounting your horse will cancel out your own invisibility spell(your horse's will remain active). There is a glitch however, that causes you to become invisible along with your horse, although creatures/NPCs will still detect you. If you are not on your horse when its invisibility expires, you will be stuck in this state.''
This is hardly a useful spell. Your horse may be invisible but if NPCs/creatures will still detect and chase you because ''you'' are not invisible while riding it, it negates any sense of purpose for casting invisibility on the horse in the first place. My first thought was to just remove it from the article (which I've done), but because the glitch does appear to be the case (even in a fully patched game) I've reworded the "Note" and put that in the Bugs section. I'm not sure if I've done a wonderful job of the rewrite, however, so would appreciate someone giving a second opinion on it. --[[User:Dalimyr|Dalimyr]]([[User_talk:Dalimyr|T]] ≈ [[Special:Contributions/Dalimyr|C]]) 06:38, 21 March 2009 (EDT)

:I agree, I don't see how it could have been useful. I've reworded the Bug a little but it was fine in general. My only perplexity is: when you saw "that state" at the end of the sentence do you mean the state that makes your character ''look'' invisible while you aren't? --[[User:SerCenKing|SerCenKing]] 06:44, 21 March 2009 (EDT)

::Correct --[[User:Dalimyr|Dalimyr]]([[User_talk:Dalimyr|T]] ≈ [[Special:Contributions/Dalimyr|C]]) 07:28, 21 March 2009 (EDT)

== Wild Horses ==

I went and found the wild horses mentioned here. They seem to be very weak and will either drown or be killed by mud crabs. Unless you following them stresses them out so bad they have a heart attack and die?!?! Anyways, if you want to follow/see them, you have to sneak. If you have low sneak, you need to walk. At best you will see only two at a time. One actually ran up to my character, so maybe they get used to you after a while like the deer?[[User:24.250.167.29|24.250.167.29]] 22:38, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Is there any specific place Wild horses spawn? [[User:Gorilladin|Gorilladin]] 20:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== My Horse Problem ==

In my first ever Oblivion game I stole many horses, I usually only ended up using them once and so dumped them in plain sight in front of many city gates. when I discovered the chameleon suit I would regularly leave cities and use the horse again. now, 4 different characters down the line. in all games since i quit my first random horses pop up in exactly the same place as before in my previous game. the most recent time I escaped the dungeons and walked up to the imperial city. Prior Maborals paint horse was standing in front of the main gates. I now have nearly 15 horses gathering around various gates (Leyawin, Skingrad - most major cities) and one on top of dive rock. this would be no problem but as they count as stolen I cannot easily aquire horses anymore. has this happened to anyone else? have any other people experienced the horses which jump through the Time/SaveGame continuum? P.S the only mods I am running are Shivering Isles and Knights of the nine. I play with GOTY version of oblivion on Windows Vista PC. Regards [[User:Lewbot1|Lewbot1]] 06:01, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

== A Horse With Drained Speed :( ==

I had been riding Shadowmere for a long time when I noticed that she was moving a lot slower than she should. Using the console revealed that for some reason her speed attribute was at 29 instead of the correct 33. My only conclusion is that she got into a fight with some dumb bugger who sapped her speed. Does anyone have suggestions on how to easily correct this problem and check if any of her other attributes are damaged too? Has anyone else had problems with their horse's speed being drained? {{unsigned|69.73.94.114|02:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)}}
:Try using a [[Oblivion:Restore Speed|Restore Speed]] spell/scroll on her. --[[User:Elliot|Elliot]]([[User_talk:Elliot|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Elliot|C]]) 02:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

== Graphical Glitch ==

:''(moved from the article)''
If you are on Shadowmere when it is knocked unconscious, you will be temporarily paralyzed, in which case the graphical image of your body will freeze in that position and you wont have a body when in 3rd person view, however the body disappears in first person view and you have a hand.

: I don't understand this at all... –[[User:Rpeh|rpeh]]•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 06:26, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

You are right to have moved it. I do not think it is a hoax though. I think the last part is the normal 'stream-of-consciousness' writing from people who are not making the effort to make their choice of words unequivocal. I think they are describing what normally happens when you switch to 1st person: because you are seeing through the character's eyes, you see only the character's hands, and not their body. Hence "the body disappears in (when you switch to) first person view (as normal) and you have (can see only) a hand". I cannot vouch for the truth of the rest of it though. [[User:Anarchangel|Anarchangel]] 19:10, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

== Paint Horse ==
I just found a paint horse inbetween Bravil and Leyawiin, south of fort nomore. I was wondering who's horse this could be, or why its there? I know its not mine since riding it is considered stealing. {{Unsigned|68.163.34.10|10 August 2009}}

:That would likely be [[Oblivion:Hlidara Mothril|Hlidara Mothril]]'s horse. She must have dismounted to fight a creature, and not cared to mount again. Or worse, she was killed. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]]-<[[User talk:Timenn|talk]]> 14:21, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

== Moved note ==

:''It is possible to get a horse inside a city to do this you need to get Jauffre or Martin on their horses (when they are following you) and fast travel into a city,(so far it has only worked with the Market District). You may need to try this many times and it is not possible to get that horse out of the market district.''
I moved this from the page because it seems a little bit sketchy. Can anyone confirm this? –[[User:Elliot|Elliot]] [[User_talk:Elliot|talk]] 06:24, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

== Question ==

I took the Weynon Priory horse way at the beginning of my game and many, many quests later it's still there against my wishes. How do I get rid of it without killing it? {{unsigned|90.221.235.209|October 18, 2009}}

:You'll have to get a different horse. Try buying a horse from a stable if you like (consider it an upgrade!), or even just stealing one should get rid of your problem. See this note from the article:
::''"If you own two or more horses, the one you rode last is "active", meaning it will be the one that appears by your side when you fast travel. Your other horse(s) can still be found in the place you bought or acquired them.''

::''Stealing a horse replaces your previous horse as your "current" horse."''
:Hope that helps! –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 15:49, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

It does, thanks.

== Do Stables Ever Restock Horses? ==

I have bought up all the Black Horses and unfortunately I take terrible care of them. Needless to say, all of my Black Horses are dead and Shadowmere is off in Limbo. Does anyone know if the stables restock their horses or am I just out of luck for a Black Horse now? [[User:Vashmanseven|Vashmanseven]] 17:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
:The article says that the stable will sell you a new horse when your old one dies. I've never tried it myself, but I'm guessing it should work. Are you sure your most recent horse is dead? –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 22:44, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

== Go Ghost Yourself ==
{{dm|from=yes|Glitches/Proposed|3=Oblivion}}
When going to do the Dark Brotherhood quest Affairs of a Wizard on the xbox360, I was being attacked by goblins near an ayleid well. Shadowmere was attacking the goblins and i jumped on the well and was shooting arrows at them, I activated the well and started shooting fireballs then jumped off the well and activated Shadowmere while still in the air. I clicked 3rd person and I wasn't on the horse but I was riding it. I went to Leafrot Cave and my body was outside the door floating like he was on a horse when i got off the horse he acted like he was getting off a horse. I then shot a fireball at him and he shot one at the door instead of me shooting him. I equiped different things and it would show them on my character. I reloaded my last save, repeated, and it did it again, and I still don't understand why it does that.
Can somebody tell me why it does that? {{unsigned|99.188.102.220|18:29, 22 October 2009}}

:This happened to me as well. I had just closed and oblivion gate and SHADOWMERE was fight ing with me. I decided to take off and as soon as I hopped on I was Shot into a " out of body experience. I have not found a cure to the glitch but as a vampire I cant feed making the game very difficult. {{unsigned|64.148.251.79|00:01, 17 January 2010}}

::I've moved this from the Glitches/Proposed page, since it's probably more appropriate here. I'm unable to reproduce this glitch, but it does seem plausible given the swimming and sitting bugs mentioned on the article. ‒ [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] 23:28, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== Horses Can't Call The Guards. ==

When I read that bit about "if a horse can see you commiting a crime, you get a bounty" I laughed.
First of all, horses have a Responsibility of 0, like all animals, which means they don't care if you commit a crime in front of them.
Secondly, horses are ''creatures'', not NPCs. They can be soul-trapped with ordinary gems. Therefore, horses cannot report crimes or give you a bounty.
Thirdly, I have owned many horses myself, as I am fond of them, and I have gone through various crimesprees with my horse. Even if he could see me, nothing happened.
Sorry, but that bit of the article is so obviously not true that it's funny. For the person who included it, I think what happened was there was a person nearby that you didn't see, and he reported the crime, not the horses. [[Special:Contributions/121.221.82.105|121.221.82.105]] 01:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
:Actually, as far as I can tell, all horses except the Unicorn have a Responsibility of 50. I'm not sure how the scripting is set up to handle animal Responsibility, but from what I'm seeing it's possible that the bit in the article is actually true. After all, it's been there for over three years--you'd think someone would have taken it down by now if it had been proven false! –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 02:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily. If information is left up long enough, people believe it is true. Like the Loch Ness Monster, and UFOs. Also, I have Construction Set and it says all horses have 0 Responsibility. However, I have not downloaded any patches. [[Special:Contributions/121.221.82.105|121.221.82.105]] 09:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

:I'm looking at the CS right now and all of the horses (again, except the Unicorn) have 50 Responsibility. I suppose it could be the patch that makes the difference, but it sure does seem like an odd thing to patch. Also we've done some testing, and while no one could get the horses to report horse theft or horse assault, committing a crime in front of a horse (specifically murder on the PS3 version, I believe) ''does'' result in a bounty. So obviously the statements on the page are at least partially correct, though we'll need to do more testing to figure out what exactly is going on. –[[User:Eshe|Eshe]][[User talk:Eshe|talk]] 15:34, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Downloaded the patch. He now has Responsibility of 50. Sorry for the trouble. [[Special:Contributions/121.221.82.105|121.221.82.105]] 08:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

== Kangaroo Black Horse ==
I was at Lord Rughdump's Estate when my Black Horse went retarded. His head disconnected itself from his neck, his bridle vanished, his tail is horizontial, he has six legs (his front legs are now ridiculously short, and two other legs are growing out of his back legs), and moves around like a kangaroo. Seriously, he moves by jumping on his back legs. He runs just as fast as a normal Black Horse, he can die like a normal horse, and he can fight, so I guess there's nothing really wrong, but it's kind of disturbing to see him like that. I tried fast-travelling to a city, I tried waiting, I tried fast-travelling on him, nothing can fix him. [[User:121.221.82.105|121.221.82.105]] 08:26, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

== Shadowmere Speed ==
I saved near the necromancer's moon altar place, and now when i load my game, i appear inside of shadowmere, but riding it, and when i get off, i have the same speed as if i was riding it. Not really a problem, but can anyone tell me why?

== Fast Travel and City Gates. But first, Stealing and Horses ==
McRoughrider the Crime Fighting Horse: 
What do horses do just before they are about to report you for a crime? They shake their heads at you and say, "Naaay!" 
On a more serious and hopefully useful note, can someone come up with a more accurate description of where your horse ends up when you enter a city? Fast travel to the Arcane University from the Chestnut Handy Stables leaves the horse at the Stables. According to the description, subsequent fast travel -from- the University, -to- the University should bring the horse to the University, as the nearest city gate. But it does not. It stays. Either University and Docklands exits do not count as city gates, and/or there is another criteria. Whichever it is, the article would benefit from the clarification. Elaboration on the subject, or this distinction, if editors find it inappropriate here, might be added to the [[Oblivion:Getting Around]] article, with a link from here. [[User:Anarchangel|Anarchangel]] 18:58, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

== Praise ==
"If an NPC is killed right under a horse's nose, it will lean down to sniff the dead body and then look up at you quizzically. Man, talk about design details!" - 76.169.141.50 
Transcluded to talk by inclusionist [[User:Anarchangel|Anarchangel]] 13:52, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

== Can NPCs steal YOUR horse? ==

Some guy took off on my Shadowmere and was too fast for me to catch obviously. Later it respawned at the Fort as usual. Since the article doesn't specify, I wondered if this was just something really weird that happened or if the AI was normally able to steal horses.[[Special:Contributions/122.102.238.156|122.102.238.156]] 10:54, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it's normal NPC behavior when fleeing danger. I haven't seen it very often, but often enough to consider it "normal". --[[User:GuildKnight|GK]][[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 05:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

== Changing Horses' Default Location? ==

Can anyone tell me if there's a console command to change where your horse will default/return to when you mount a new horse? Currently, if you mount a horse you own, the last horse you had mounted will return to the stables where it was originally bought. I'd like to change it so that whenever I mount a new horse, all of my other horses will default to the same place (in my case, Battlehorn Castle). I can't find a console command for changing an actor's "home," and I can't even find where somebody else has asked this question before. -[[User:Andostre|Andostre]] 03:42, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
:As far as I'm aware, there isn't a Console command to do the purpose you wish. The only solution is that you simply don't mount another horse and then it won't stop following you. After all, what's the point in paying the money and then never using it? :) [[User:Jaden|Jaden]] 10:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::That's more complex than a console command would be able to do. You'd have to write a mod to do that. ‒ [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] 23:56, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

== Armoring a white horse removed ownership? ==

I put armor on my White Horse a while ago. After a little while it stopped fast travelling with me, so I just assumed it died. Now I came back to the Chestnut Handy Stables and found it standing outside the gate. I tried using setownership but it still won't show up in my "Horses Owned" statistic or fast travel with me (unless I mount it). How shall I fix this? --[[Special:Contributions/142.161.35.60|142.161.35.60]] 20:56, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

:You could try allowing the horse to be killed, if you want another white horse. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 19:21, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

== unlisted horses? ==

There's a paint horse in waterfront district near tunnel(sometimes it appears near stables),if i stole this horse it returns to Cheydinhal.I'm just curious who is the owner?and so are many horses in different cities that don't appear here.one time i stole horse in front of bravil gate and was expelled from mages guild.is there a complete list of all ingame horses and owners?[[User:Eqves|Eqves]] 13:40, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

: Technically that horse ''is'' listed, but not obviously. It's one of the two horses listed under Cheydinhal's Black Waterside Stables, because that's where it starts. The horse is owned by [[Oblivion:Oghash gra-Magul|Oghash gra-Magul]] and there's more information about it there. Adding details of the owners and a little more information where necessary is a good idea. I'll add a note to the page for now. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 13:48, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

== Finding Inactive Armored Horses ==

Does anyone know how to find an armored horse after you have switched to a different one? I put armor on the black horse and have since used a different one just for fun, but the black horse has never returned to the Cheydinhal stables, even after weeks of in game time has passed. Does anyone know a workaround or some way to find where my dang horse went? [[User:Mathiusdragoon|Mathiusdragoon]] 02:02, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
:Did you check to see if a black horse is available for purchase? It's possible that the horse died, in which case you'd need to armor another horse. --'''[[User:GuildKnight|GK]]'''[[User_talk:GuildKnight|talk2me]] 14:20, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

:: Yep, I can't buy another one, so my first must still be alive somewhere, just not at the stable like its supposed to be. [[User:Mathiusdragoon|Mathiusdragoon]] 01:54, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

== minor bug: stablehands will NOT "have your horse ready for you outside" ==

I was just looking over my old edits/comments, and came across this one:
http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Horses&diff=372225&oldid=372219

It's still true - the horse ''does not'' teleport out of the corral and to the stablehand like it's supposed to, but now I understand packages enough to know why not. :)

When you buy the horse (technically, a new horse is created and the one for sale is destroyed, but whatever), it DOES teleport to the right place. But the script (correctly) fails to set it as your current horse, since you haven't mounted yet, and incorrectly prioritises the "go home" package over the "wait by the stablehand" package. Since you're in a different area, when you transition back outside everything in the new area "jumps" to the state that it should all be in, which for the horse is "at home, in the corral".

You can prove this by simply pulling the dealer outside with ''moveto player'' and having the conversation there. When you buy the horse and exit the convo, you'll see it correctly appear by the stablehand - and it will immediately start walking back into the corral.

Ali

== Getting rid of your horse ==

I mounted the horse at the Weynon Priory, but decided I didn't like it. It keeps quick-traveling with me. I don't want to kill it (actually, the reason why I want to get rid of it is that I don't like the idea of it potentially getting killed when I quick-travel to a non-safe place). Can I sell it or is there any other way to get rid of it? (I don't want another horse to take its place, I just don't want a horse.) --[[User:IronMaiden|IronMaiden]] 14:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

:I was wondering - would it make any difference if I stole a horse? Would the stolen horse replace my current one and then walk away, as described in the article, leaving me with no horse when quick-traveling? --[[User:IronMaiden|IronMaiden]] 15:04, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
::You'd have to do it alone or else get a bounty of 500. My suggestion: Get the [[Oblivion:Unicorn|Unicorn]], get on it, then kill it. It's horn is needed for a daedric quest anyway, so you'll be prepared when you do it. (see the link for more details)--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']][[User talk:Arch-Mage Matt|Talk]] 15:25, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

::: The Unicorn is an EXTREMELY strong opponent for a low-level character, which someone who's riding Prior Maborel's horse probably is; and it has 3 guardians; and mounting it can only be done if it's not hostile, which it will be if it sees ANYTHING with a weapon including its guardians, so you'd have to either sneak through Harcane Grove, which a low-level char is also unlikely to manage, or sprint to it and mount it before it goes nuts, which, again, low-level char generally means low-speed char, so... I'd say the original plan is better: it's MUCH easier to just steal a horse from a stable, especially at night (@IronMaiden: yes, what you describe will do what you want). There's also the Paint Horse that appears on the Waterfront side of the Temple gate, which has no guard posted, so that's an even easier theft; and Blossom in Hackdirt if Dar-Ma is missing.

::::Ok, I'll try that, then. I'm not really low level, I just find riding to be awkward, so I don't use a horse altogether. Besides, I don't want to kill a unicorn either... :) --[[User:IronMaiden|IronMaiden]] 17:14, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::Worked like a charm, thank you! --[[User:IronMaiden|IronMaiden]] 20:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

== Is it possible to see what horse you currently have activated via console? ==

Are there any console commands or mods that enable you to see what horse is currently your active horse? The only way that I know of doing this is travel to an outside(non-city) and look at which one is around.--[[User:Djdelirius|Djdelirius]] 14:02, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Anyway of combat (with mods or without) while mounted on a horse? ==

I've searched for any mods that do this but cannot find any, does anyone know of horse combat mods?--[[User:Djdelirius|Djdelirius]] 14:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Try the {{PES|2350|Mounted Combat}} mod. I've never played it myself though. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 17:15, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mages Guild's Horse ==

I have mounted a Bay horse (it says "0003291a" when I click on it in the console) when nobody was around (so I wasn't even sneaking and I ''did not'' get a bounty for the theft) and I was expelled from the Mages guild for it, saying I have ''stolen'' Mages Guild property. To regain access however, the task was 20 Motherworts and 20 Dragon Tongues, like if I would have attacked someone from the MG.

I don't get expelled, when I mount the horse sneaking. So I think this horse is somehow linked to the Mages Guild. However, I cannot find anything like that about it ni the uesp. (I have the the GOTY version from Steam)
--[[User:Zababa|Zababa]] 15:56, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

: That horse belongs to [[Oblivion:Carandial|Carandial]], who is indeed in the guild. Believe it or not, the horse can witness you stealing it itself, which is probably what got you expelled. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 14:51, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

== Disappearing Horses ==

Every time I fast traveled my black horse was not anywhere near me so I went and bought a white horse. now every time I fast travel my horse is not with me still. its not dead because theres only one horse in the stables. I think my black horse died because its not at Cheydinhal. -[[User:Gabe896|Gabe896]] 23:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:: My horses always disappear but I've got terribly bugged Oblivion :/ Even Shadowmere disappeared when I left her outside the cave. L.

== Horse Inside Market District *bug* ==

This bug seems to occur when using 'fast travel' to the Market District of Imperial City. There are some youtube videos demonstrating the phenomenon. Don't waste your life watching them...When using 'fast travel' to move to a different location you will get the message 'your horse has been stabled...' but actually your horse is still within the confines of the district, and no solution or work-around has been found on Google. I eventually found that if you mount the horse and use the console command "movetoqt" you will teleport to that location still mounted on your horse, and your horse is once again in the outside environment where he belongs. Hooray. aplivings {{Unsigned|78.86.38.234|09:30, 25 September 2010}}

:The one video I was able to find on YouTube had Shadowmere randomly wandering into the Market District, not getting there via Fast Travel. For myself, I've never seen this bug reported anywhere, nor have I experienced it myself when fast travelling to the Market District (which I do almost every time I play, as I use that as my primary loot-selling point). Are you sure this behaviour isn't caused by a mod or some other console command you tried? – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 19:32, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

== Good Page ==

Hi I dont edit on this wiki but I've come here for information for years just wanted to say I realy like this page and the way its written so thank you and well done to the editors (both on this page and the wiki as a whole).--[[Special:Contributions/92.24.204.127|92.24.204.127]] 14:19, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Derelict Mine

2010-10-03T18:04:03Z

Gorilladin: /* Goblins Fighting Each Other */

==Goblin Staves==
"You can get 2 goblin shaman staffs here, worth 7000 gold each"
The staffs are leveled, so mentioning the amount of gold doesn't seem fit. I found 2 shaman staffs at level 6, but they didn't come near 7000 gold each at all. (I believe I sold them for 800 gold each).

:In its base state the cave contains two unleveled totem staves, each having a base price of 6550 gold, one of them belonging to the goblins who actually live there, the other one apparently not. Any other staves you get from the goblin shamans would be subject to the same leveling as all random loot. -- [[User:JustTheBast|JustTheBast]] 12:12, 7 March 2007 (EST)

:I'm guessing the reason you only got 800 gold for them is that you sold them at a merchant won't give you more than 800 gold for any item. --[[User:Vilhazarog|Vilhazarog]] 12:59, 7 March 2007 (EST)

::Now I actually feel stupid, I guess I did sell them to a merchant who doesn't give more than 800 gold. I completely forgot about the max. gold a merchant has. [[User:Saskia|Saskia]] 13:50, 7 March 2007 (EST)

::I found the two totem staffs in this mine and they have a base price of 7660 for me, i am level 36 at moment to let you know.

:::First off, I also found two Goblin Shaman Staves here, each with a value of 7660 Septims at Level 9. Anyway, to explain why there's two, maybe? --[[User:Queinty|Queinty]] 05:12, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
::::I'm pretty sure that one of the staves is the white skin staff because I know there is white skins in there, and I'm on the 360 so there's no mods involved

==Goblins Fighting Each Other==
I zoned into ''Derelict Mine Tunnels'' and immediately confronted two goblins. Oddly, they ran off over the bridge to the other side, which I was happy to let them do. But as I advanced further in, I could make out this noise getting ever louder. Sounds like a battle. It was. Ends up with me stood there, watching about 15 Goblins all battering the hell out of one another, goaded on by a Goblin Chef. Turns out that White Skin Goblins found their way into here for a right old dingdong. Anyway, after the last White Skin had bit the dust, the rest turned on me as expected so I fled to a convenient bottleneck where I despatched them one by one.

This happened to anyone else? --[[User:Queinty|Queinty]] 05:12, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:What you saw was a fight between rival [[Oblivion:Goblins#Goblins by Tribe|Goblin Tribes]]. Tribes are hostile to each other, so when they meet, they attack each other. The reason there was two staves in the cave is because there were two shamans, each with their own staff.--[[User:Darkle|Darkle]] ~ [[User talk:Darkle|Talk]] 08:01, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:I tested this out 8 times doing different things and it seems that there are 2 tribes in the mine and the shaman only represents the leader. If you drop down and kill one side's goblins through one of the exits from that room, when you return, the other goblin tribe will not attack you.

:I too had this happen to me on a run-through tonight.--[[User:24.163.113.239|24.163.113.239]] 23:49, 11 May 2009 (EDT)

::Just happened to me... I found two battles occuring, one in the kitchen in the first area and one in the middle area with the cliffs. In the second battle, the white skin shaman was raining down shock attacks on the sharp teeth below... I killed them all as usual. [[User:Stouf761|Stouf761]] 03:21, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't actually two tribes in the one cave. for some reason (idk why) the Whiteskin Goblin Totem spawns inside Derelict Mine which causes the Whiteskin goblins to invade. Its fun to watch =D -[[User:Gorilladin|Gorilladin]] 18:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== War chief picks up totem ==

What's up with the war chiefs always picking up totems off the ground? Unless you are really quick about it, they will pick it up when fighting other tribes, totem bye bye. I had to run real quick to pick it up, otherwise the White Skin chief picks it up and puts it in his inventory. Same thing during the Goblin Trouble quest. Unless you run your ass off, you won't get it without fighting, because it's impossible to pickpocket goblins. [[User:WRFan|WRFan]] 03:09, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

: Warchiefs try to recover their totem staff. That is why they are sometimes in other goblins' mines. That is what you saw happen.--[[User:Catmaniac66|Catmaniac66]] 16:26, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Efficient Leveling

2010-10-03T17:48:18Z

Gorilladin: /* Maximum possible level? */

==What is Efficient?==
Given the way levelling works in Oblivion, I have adopted a personal definition of "efficiency" that is based on making my characters as strong as possible at a given level. This leads to gameplay that in some respects agrees with this page, but in other respects noticeably differs.

I agree with this page in that I'm pretty obsessive about getting 5/5/5 bonuses
(or 5/5/1 once I start boosting luck) and reaching 100 in attributes as quickly as possible: the only character improvement that happens when you level up is the attribute bonuses, so I think it's critical to get maximum attribute bonuses to stay competitive with the NPCs.

But, I don't believe in not "wasting" skill points. Instead I intentionally
"waste" alot of skill points at early levels. So, for example, at level 1, I will increase both alchemy and conjuration from 5 to at least 25 to get them to apprentice level right away, essentially wasting 30 skill points. I want to have as many high skills at possible at low levels (especially so I can survive with the difficulty slider pushed to the left).

This strategy adds its own challenges. You need to be sure to not waste too many skill points, i.e. not delay or prevent reaching 100 in any attributes. You need to accept that increasing skills rapidly early on will require some painful skill training later in the game, since getting a skill from 95 to 100 is so much more difficult than getting it from, say, 65 to 70.

So in reading this page I'm led to wonder what does not wasting skill points buy you?
How does that make characters stronger? Or is it primarily an aesthetic preference? And would those who've contributed to the page so far be open to introducing some changes, e.g., modifying the definition of "efficient" and trying to present a couple different philosophies related to skill increases?

--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 23:59, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

: I think it all comes down to balance and personal prefernce. Sure, not wasting any skills and doing the 5/5/1 thing every level will get you a more powerful character more quickly, but for the most part, this process can be tedious and just not very fun to play. (Being careful to walk everywhere instead of running so as to not accidentally train your Athletics, selling 100 potions one at a time to train Mercantile, constantly summoning creatures and attacking them just to raise your combat skills, just seems like busy-work when you could be having fun playing the quests and exploring the world instead. I think you need to balance out how much patience you have for repetitive tasks vs. how much you'd rather just enjoy the game and not worry about that stuff. Sure, it's good to keep it in mind, but I'd say don't go crazy over it. But hey, whatever floats your boat. You could instead do the level-as-fast-as-you-can thing and not worry about multipliers at all, if you really like a challenge. Or you could train like a machine so as to be sure that every fight later in the game will be a piece of cake. But I suspect most people will do something somewhere in the middle of this range instead. -- [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] 00:59, 20 June 2006 (EDT)

::'''The myth of over leveling''' I started leveling character totally "efficiently" and found that he was far from powerful because he was only increasing skills he needed to level up. When I started "wasting" skills increases I found I had a much more powerful and well rounded character. For example those levels where I was only trying to level up Strength, Intelligence and Endurance I couldn't use Destruction, Stealth, Security etc. So even though I had a high Magicka I couldn't cast anything because my skill wasn't high enough. When I started using all my skills but focusing on three primary skills so that when I leveled up I would have +5,+2,+2,+2,+1,+5,+5,+2,+1, I found my character ''more'' powerful as he could conjure a creature, shoot a fireball and strike with a sword. I think the magical skills can become very limited by low skills as you can't cast anything decent even though you may have high attributes. I mean there is still a lot of room for "wasted" points and you can always go to prison. [[User:Grandmaster z0b|Grandmaster z0b]] 02:59, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm not really much of a believer in the 5-5-5 or the 5-5-1 character development approach. I personally prefer a hybrid approach. I select Endurance and Luck as the favored Attributes for my custom character class, because of the immediate health and skill bonuses (as well as other luck-related bonuses). These are the only two attributes which have a permanent affect on the character. The health, or hit-points, earned by Endurance bonuses are cumulative between levels, so that one is fairly obvious.

Luck has an immediate effect on all skills, but that effect becomes diminished over time because the skills themselves increase faster than luck. Each skill has a cap of 100, at which point Luck has no effect whatsoever on that particular skill (with the exceptions of Athletics and Acrobatics). Choosing Luck as a favored attribute is one of the only ways you can boost it faster than one point at a time, so it has a fairly large impact on a Level 1 character. More importantly, it allows a low-level character to use the 5-5-5 approach for a longer period of time before switching to the 5-5-1 approach.

For instance, I calculate in advance the maximum level my character can attain (including factors like Hermaeus Mora, etc.), then I use a 5-5-5 approach until he reaches a level where he must begin incrementing his Luck in order to achieve the maximum of 100 by the time he reaches his maximum attainable level.

Suppose that I've determined the maximum level my character will attain is 54. If his Luck Attribute starts at 55 when he is a Level 1 character, then he must begin incrementing the Luck Attribute at Level 9, in order to achieve a final score of 100 when he reaches Level 54. So for the first eight levels I use the 5-5-5 approach, then I switch to the 5-5-1 approach. Choosing Luck as a favored attribute not only acts as a modifier on all of his skills (as well as numerous other computations), but it also delays the time that I need to switch from the 5-5-5 approach to the 5-5-1 approach by five character levels. If I choose any other Attribute as a favored Attribute for the five point bonus, that's the only five point bonus that my character will receive. However, if I choose the Luck Attribute, he not only gets a five point bonus for Luck from the outset of the game, when it has the most impact as an Attribute, but he also has five additional levels during which he can augment OTHER Attributes by five points each -- for a total of 30 Attribute bonus points, rather than a mere five.

I always focus on Endurance as the first Attribute to develop, simply because it maximizes potential hit points -- which is necessary for the survival of any character. Then I select any other two Attributes EXCEPT Personality to develop. The Personality Attribute, Mercantile Skill, and Speechcraft Skill have very little effect on combat. In noncombat situations, they can always be artificially elevated with enchanted items, spells, or potions. When all Attributes other than Personality and Luck have reached a score of 100, I then switch to a 5-1 approach, wherein I raise Personality by 5 points and Luck by 1 point for each level attained.

I'll let you meet my friend Galadril, and he can probably show you better than I can. Please note that the following example occurs within actual game play -- that the character is not being artificially trained through repetitive actions outside of the normal course of the plot of the game.

GALADRIL IN THE SEWERS

Galadril has just been freed from prison and needs to make his way back to civilization through the sewers. There are a lot of rats down there, and he's a little out of shape because of his time in prison. The rats aren't really much of a match for him, so he decides to use them for blocking practice as much as possible before he kills them. Even though the Block skill is one of his Minor Skills, he finds that there are enough rats down there to easily raise it to 25 (Apprentice Level) by the time he exits the sewers. It's probably a good thing that he selected more difficult skills as Major Skills, since the Block skill is sort of a "gimme."

He also chooses to wear only the heavy armor that he finds in the sewers, opting to carry the light armor on his back, because he's strictly focusing on skills related to the Endurance Attribute. He realizes, of course, that by achieving a +5 Endurance bonus as a low-level character, he will maximize his potential for health (hit points) when he is a higher-level character. He figures that no matter which character class he decides to play when he exits the sewers, this is going to be a critical survival factor for him. He can save the light armor for later, when he decides to work on his Speed Attribute.

Because he's so out of shape, he's also worried about encumbrance. So he decides to focus on his Blade, Blunt, and/or Hand-to-Hand skills. He tries to avoid using any skills other than those which are governed by Endurance or Strength, even though a little birdie in his head is telling him to do silly things like Sneak up on a goblin. He'd rather just fight the ugly thing, to develop a +5 bonus toward his Strength and Endurance Attributes. No matter which character class he ultimately decides to become when he exits the sewers, these two attributes are going to be of critical importance. He might be forced to use a little Restoration occasionally, sparingly, in emergencies, but he'd rather just take a nap for an hour when the action is over.

The only exception is that he might want to pick a lock or two, so that he can get a little loot for startup capital when he exits the sewers. But as soon as he sees all of the alchemy ingredients in the sewers, he makes his first career choice: the other skill he's going to develop is alchemy. No matter which character class he decides to become when he leaves the sewers, he's going to need some easy money. The ingredients are lightweight, and once they've been converted to potions they can be sold for a tremendous profit. It's almost like a license to print money. He also figures that it won't be long before he can make better potions for his own use, almost for free, than anything he might be able to purchase. So he gathers all of the alchemy ingredients he can find, opting to leave heavier, less valuable loot behind.

Galadril is also a strong believer in education, so he decides not to develop any of his Major Skills, thereby remaining a Level 1 character when he exits the sewers. As a result, when he starts using alchemy to finance his new career, he can simultaneously earn a +5 bonus toward his Intelligence Attribute before elevating to Level 2, which will have the byproduct of substantially increasing his Magicka.

GALADRIL IN THE FREE WORLD

After being liberated from prison, Galadril travels as fast as he can to Weynon Priory. When he arrives, Jauffre offers him a position as Assistant Kingmaker. It's not really a bad job, especially considering the benefits package -- a free storage chest, some heavy armor, some light armor, some weapons, a free horse, a repair hammer, some miscellaneous salable items, and an advanced book on blocking which he decides to store in his chest and read later when it is a little harder to learn on his own. After accepting the position, he sells all of his loot from the sewers and all of the weapons Jauffre had given him, keeping only the choicest heavy and light armor for himself, as well as his alchemy ingredients.

Next he travels to nearby Chorrol and joins the Mages Guild. As a member, he's entitled to use a full set of novice alchemy equipment to create his potions with. In fact, he can take ALL of their alchemy equipment, presumably polishing and cleaning it for them, and then sell it back to the guild, keeping only one complete set for himself! With his initial startup capital -- from loot, gifts, and refurbished alchemy equipment -- he buys all of the ingredients available in the city of Chorrol, creates as many potions as he can, then sells them to the Mages Guild. He stores all of the leftover ingredients, his alchemy equipment, and his spare armor in his chest at Weynon Priory. He's just been released from prison, and he's already on his way to being a wealthy man!

He's managed to keep all of the free heavy and light armor that he wanted, but he's sold ALL of his weapons, so his next priority is to outfit himself with some decent weapons. He figures the easiest way to accomplish that is to join the Fighter's Guild, right next door. They have a lot of old-fashioned iron weapons, free for the taking, but he figures that he'll be provided with some better weapons if he starts working for them. So, after joining the guild, he rides his new horse to Cheydinhal where he's provided with a weapons cache -- a STEEL bladed weapon, blunt weapon, and bow. And, By George! All of them are weightless, as light as a Feather. He figures that the more experienced guild fighters can hold off the goblins for a while and that it's more important to use these things to save the heir to the throne.

The only weapons he decides to buy (unless he can find them for free) are an iron dagger, an iron war axe, and a silver dagger (for emergency use in case he runs into any undead creatures). His high-tech weapons are entirely weightless, so he can easily afford to carry these relatively light-weight weapons throughout his adventures.

See, Galadril figures that since Endurance and Strength are so important to a low-level character, of any given profession, that he should continue developing them for a while. He can always use his high-tech, weightless weapons in a pinch, but if he uses some low-tech practice weapons for most of his fighting, he'll have to take a lot more swings at his opponents, which will increase his Blade or Blunt skills much more rapidly. Not only that, it will allow the opponent to strike his heavy armor a lot more times, increasing his Heavy Armor skill and his Armorer Skill. (What the heck? He's already rich enough to buy as many repair hammers as he needs, and he hasn't even really started his first quest yet!) Because of his proficiency with alchemy, he can use potions to restore health during combat rather than Restoration spells. Alchemy is fairly representative of all of the other magical disciplines, so it is extremely versatile. He can always study Restoration later, when he's decided to focus on his Willpower Attribute.

He's still a Level 1 character, outfitted with some of the best weapons and armor available during these early, primitive days of his freedom. He decides that he might as well continue buying alchemy ingredients until his alchemy rating is 25 (Apprentice Level) before advancing to Level 2. He can always study Conjuration or Mysticism later to boost his Intelligence Attribute. Not only that, he's well aware that when he becomes a Master Alchemist that it will more than double his profit potential for each ingredient he collects! And, of course, the potions that he keeps for himself will be more potent. He spends some of the cash on five points of training in one of his more difficult Major Skills, and banks the rest of it for later.

If you want to hear more about the life of Galadril, just let me know! (By the way, Nephele, I agree with your post 100%.)

[[User:Bbrass10|Bbrass10]] 17:44, 15 December 2007 (EST)

==Splitting Out Skill Boosting==

How about splitting out the section on boosting skills on to a new page? It could also use some better formatting and some editing. Plus the content needs some work. Anyone mind if I take a first pass at this on an unlinked page? [[User:Tikiman|Tikiman]] 17:05, 7 July 2006 (EDT)
:I think that would be great! I don't think that info should be buried on the Efficient Leveling page: even if you're not trying to play efficiently, you're likely to occasionally want to enhance certain skills (i.e., you're desperate for that next skill perk). I think a separate page ("Skill Training"?) could be linked to from some of the top-level pages.--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 17:47, 7 July 2006 (EDT)
::I created a page [[Oblivion:Skill_Boosting|Skill Boosting]] to distinguish manual leveling from going to trainers [[User:Tikiman|Tikiman]] 12:46, 8 July 2006 (EDT)

== Discussions Needed ==
Before unilaterally reversing changes just made by another contributor, I'd like to suggest that the people editing this page discuss what should be on this page. There are two issues that seem contentious, and keep getting added/deleted from this page:
* Do attribute raising tips belong here?
* Does under leveling belong here?
I think there needs to be a consensus reached on these questions before any more changes related to them are made.

My two cents are that:
* the attribute raising tips do '''not''' belong here. It is information useful in circumstances other than just efficient leveling. There is no reason why the efficient leveling page can't just link to the page on [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills]].
* under leveling doesn't belong here either; I think it's a different style of play than efficient leveling. There may be overlap, but there's enough about them to have them on separate pages that just cross-reference each other.
--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 16:33, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

: I think what you have just suggested is the way to go.
: I tried to take all the information on raising skills / attributes and combine them to make the [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills|Increasing Skills]] page. The old information was scattered around on pages like this efficient leveling page, and therefore hard to find. Now it can be linked from the skills page also, where there are probably just as many people looking for this kind of info.
: The under leveling section was also put in here by me, but I can see why its somewhat different than efficient leveling. Probably better to let it have its own page.
: -- [[User:Dieter|Dieter]] 07:56, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

::In the absence of any arguments at all in favour of keeping the attribute-raising tips here, I've deleted those sections from this page, and instead added a few links to [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills|Increasing Skills]]. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 19:40, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

== Article finally fixed! ==

This now appropriately talks about attributes rather than stupid "stats" or even worse: abilities, which are an entirely different thing (related to races or starsigns). How anyone could have written such a poorly worded article is beyond me.

Still, it says: "If you gain more than 10 skill points related to one attribute you have "wasted" the opportunity to use those to raise attributes" - why? aren't they used on the next level increase just like this? please check and fix this if needed. --[[User:FMan|FMan]] 08:32, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

:Nope, attribute bonuses do not roll over from one level to the next. See question/response at [[User talk:Truffle]]. As for whether or not it's a waste, that's another question: you have enough skill increases to increase your each attribute to 150 or more, so the skill points end up being wasted anyway. Why not use them early on and take advantage of having a more powerful character? But that's a different argument (which I brought up earlier on this page). --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 14:27, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

== Efficient Leveling experiment ==

I just started a new character and thought I could make a new section called "Efficient Leveling Example from lvl 1 to 10 (+5/+5/+1)" or similar.
I could update the page as my character grows in levels and gains skills and attributes.
Adding comments, tips and the ways how I leveled up different skills in different situations.
So this could work as a "real life example" of Efficient Leveling for the first, say, 10 levels.
I'll set up a page when I'm ready. - - [[User:Teknikaali|Teknikaali]]

== Somethings I don't Quite Understand... ==

I really thought this guide was helpful, mainly because I've been tyring to understand exactly how to get the +5 to an attributes when you level, but not really understanding it totally. This guide helped clear it up alot, but there are still some things I'm wondering. I mean, I know as soon as you get 100 in all major skills or attributes will make it so you can't level anymore, but not having 100s in all your skills seems like a much worse option than having not all 100s in your attributes... Is there some way to get both 100 in all your skills AND 100 in all your atributes? I think the idea is cool, but, I think a much better way to do this that lets you get your skills much higher could be done.... This is going to take alot of thought and math (Uck.), but I really want to explore on this. Thanks for writing the guide by the way, it really cleared alot of things up for me!

....Unfortuanatly, after reading this, I realize I'm gona have to start a new character....

I'll post my findings later somewere. --[[User:MrTaco122|MrTaco122]] 16:46, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Even if you get 100s in all your attributes (which is very difficult to do, since you can only ever get +1 for luck), you can still continue to increase your skills. You can keep increasing any skill after you've maxed out the governing attribute. You just don't receive any level-ups if the skills are major skills, but at that point all it means is that you don't get any health increases. So there's no fundamental problem with getting 100s in all attributes and all skills. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 02:23, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

== Max. Level 53--Max. Luck 100 ==

I'm not sure if any of these numbers would be helpful to anyone else or where(if anywhere)they belong.
I barely managed to pull myself away from my Efficient Leveling experiments to do a bit of simple math.
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong page or unimportant information.

Level 1--52 to Max. & Luck 50--50 to Max.

Level 3--50 to Max. & Luck 50--50 to Max.

Level 1--52 to Max. & Luck 55--45 to Max.

Level 8--45 to Max. & Luck 55--45 to Max.

This is mainly intended for those concerned with the attribute cap prematurely limiting the level max(before the Shivering Isles "Addiction" quest)seeing that Luck can be tricky.

== A fast way of leveling for 'pure' characters (10,10,10, / 10,10,1x2) ==

I thought you guys might be interested in a leveling method I'm using (I've not seen it mentioned or used anywhere else, so it might make a good addition to the forum).

It's the opposite of efficient leveling.

The idea is to skill-up three major skills ten times without sleeping. Providing you split the thirty skill-ups equally between the skills, without sleeping, you can basically average a +5 modifier for each of those skills' attributes when you eventually come to sleep, regardless of the order in which you skill-up each skill. (you have to sleep multiple times (once for each ten skill-ups)).

Or you can skill-up two major skills ten points each without sleeping and when you come to sleep, sleep twice and add the extra point to luck to effectively double the speed at which your luck attribute raises.

It's based on the idea that the best way to play is to create a focused, 'pure' character.

Here's more info on it (my post to the bethsoft.com forum).

It also includes some of my basic reasoning for the method

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=766542&st=0#

Hope you find it interesting.

--[[User:Hatesink|Hatesink]] 13:50, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

== A Diary For Console Users ==

I'm going start a round of Oblivion with some focus on Efficient Leveling, but since I'm playing on an Xbox, the [http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3629 skill diary mod] linked in the main article isn't really useful to me for tracking the stats. I Googled around for a sample spreadsheet I could use, and found a pretty good one (accompanied by a well-written explanation) [http://www.reardo.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26 here]. Any thoughts on how/if to link to this thread in the main article? [[User:Roddie|Roddie]] 00:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

==Own personal character maps==

Hi, would anyone be interested in posting their own personal efficient leveling method. So from level 1 to whichever level it took you to. Start for example with which race, birth sign, then what skills you raised at each level and by how much exactly. If you kept a record of it then it will be easy for you to copy down! I think this will be better for me to learn from because I'm having trouble with all this 5/5/5/ 5/5/1 stuff. Personally I like Breton's the best. Anything else I'd like to just copy for easiness sake. A few notes. I don't care about Personality so much, there is a simple spell which can increase your Mercantile by 100 for 1 second + Charm 100 on target for 1 second which works every time. Also I use the duplicate items glitch (scrolls method, PS3) so money is no problem, I can spend whatever I need on trainers or whatever. I'm not even sure if trainers count towards the whole 5/5/5 thing. Anyway if you do this thank you so much. It will increase my enjoyment of the game a lot. I can't give anything in return but gratitude. PS. I know the glitch is a cheat but it's my game which I paid for with my hard earned money and I have every right to cheat if I want to. It helps me enjoy the game better. {{Unsigned|90.197.201.207|18 June 2009}}

:I'm sorry, but the wiki is not a good place to share personal experiences. I'd recommend the [http://forums.uesp.net/ forums] instead. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]] < [[User_talk:Timenn|talk]] > 11:04, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

== Question about "overcoming the leveling problem (example 2) ==

This section confused me a lot. I didn't really understand what the problem with example 2 was. Should the character who had nine intelligence points level his alchemy/conjuration (minor skills) at the 10th point and then raise a major skill? I'd like someone to explain this and maybe reword the section to make it a bit more simple or explanatory :) --[[User:Blue deep|Blue deep]] 08:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

== Overcoming the Leveling Problem ==

<nowiki>I've changed the order of the sum below example one so that the figures are in the same order as the skills listed- just to make it clearer. I hope this is ok.</nowiki> -[[User:Snorkel.maiden|Snorkel.maiden]] 13:32, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

== Maximum possible level? ==

I never used any special "training" of yours, nor I did some special planning. I reached level 51, and I have still to raise something (I think maximum level I will ever have will be 53). I was asking myself, what's the highest level one can become? --[[Special:Contributions/195.60.143.253|195.60.143.253]] 20:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:I dont think there is any known max level. try youtubing it :P [[User:Gorilladin|Gorilladin]] 17:48, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Help ==

I first played Oblivion afew years ago, leveling up as much as possible without thinking about getting 5/5/5 or 5/5/1, and towards the end the game was very difficult. However I did enjoy the game enough to want to play through it again, this time trying to create a stronger character. What i'm looking for is basically a battlemage, but a bit different. A character with reasonable endurance (higher health, block), reasonable strength (blade, and able to carry more stuff), but mostly I enjoy the spells. I'm leaning towards higher willpower first, to regenerate magika faster, although I also need
intelligence to have a large enough magika pool to cast the more expensive spells.
What ive got so far is a Breton, Lady birthsign, willpower and endurance as favoured attributes, and my major skills are blade, block, mysticism, alteration, destruction, restoration, and mercantile. I'm having trouble however getting the 5/5/5. I keep ending up with 5/3/3 no matter how many skill increases I get and i don't understand why. What would be ideal for me is 5 on intelligence, 5 on willpower and 5 on endurance for one level-up. And the next level up the same but instead of 5 on endurance, 5 on strength. And with each level-up change between strength and endurance. That way I can concentrate on magic use more, but still have decent strength and endurance. Could anyone please give me any advice on how it would be best to do this?

== My Bad/Good solution? ==

Create an Orc or Nord with all major skills as magic (including alchemy) And since you level up once every 10 skill level ups, simpily divide those evenly such as 3 blade, 3 block and 3, blunt and the last one doesnt really matter. If you do not wish to become an orc/nord just pick whatever skills your desired race would faulter in. i.e. Argonain comabt skills or an Orc with stealth/magic skills. Anyone really get what im saying? Im not good with writing or anything so it may be kind of un clear {{Unsigned|Gorilladin|03:03, 30 September 2010}}

:If I understand what you're saying, then that's basically the point of Efficient Levelling: choose skills that you can control when you level up as your major skills, then try and level up your minor skills together with the major skills to get the best results possible. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 21:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

:What exactly do you mean by 'level up your minor skills together with the major skiils'?[[User:Gorilladin|Gorilladin]] 17:46, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Efficient Leveling

2010-10-03T17:46:20Z

Gorilladin: /* My Bad/Good solution? */

==What is Efficient?==
Given the way levelling works in Oblivion, I have adopted a personal definition of "efficiency" that is based on making my characters as strong as possible at a given level. This leads to gameplay that in some respects agrees with this page, but in other respects noticeably differs.

I agree with this page in that I'm pretty obsessive about getting 5/5/5 bonuses
(or 5/5/1 once I start boosting luck) and reaching 100 in attributes as quickly as possible: the only character improvement that happens when you level up is the attribute bonuses, so I think it's critical to get maximum attribute bonuses to stay competitive with the NPCs.

But, I don't believe in not "wasting" skill points. Instead I intentionally
"waste" alot of skill points at early levels. So, for example, at level 1, I will increase both alchemy and conjuration from 5 to at least 25 to get them to apprentice level right away, essentially wasting 30 skill points. I want to have as many high skills at possible at low levels (especially so I can survive with the difficulty slider pushed to the left).

This strategy adds its own challenges. You need to be sure to not waste too many skill points, i.e. not delay or prevent reaching 100 in any attributes. You need to accept that increasing skills rapidly early on will require some painful skill training later in the game, since getting a skill from 95 to 100 is so much more difficult than getting it from, say, 65 to 70.

So in reading this page I'm led to wonder what does not wasting skill points buy you?
How does that make characters stronger? Or is it primarily an aesthetic preference? And would those who've contributed to the page so far be open to introducing some changes, e.g., modifying the definition of "efficient" and trying to present a couple different philosophies related to skill increases?

--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 23:59, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

: I think it all comes down to balance and personal prefernce. Sure, not wasting any skills and doing the 5/5/1 thing every level will get you a more powerful character more quickly, but for the most part, this process can be tedious and just not very fun to play. (Being careful to walk everywhere instead of running so as to not accidentally train your Athletics, selling 100 potions one at a time to train Mercantile, constantly summoning creatures and attacking them just to raise your combat skills, just seems like busy-work when you could be having fun playing the quests and exploring the world instead. I think you need to balance out how much patience you have for repetitive tasks vs. how much you'd rather just enjoy the game and not worry about that stuff. Sure, it's good to keep it in mind, but I'd say don't go crazy over it. But hey, whatever floats your boat. You could instead do the level-as-fast-as-you-can thing and not worry about multipliers at all, if you really like a challenge. Or you could train like a machine so as to be sure that every fight later in the game will be a piece of cake. But I suspect most people will do something somewhere in the middle of this range instead. -- [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] 00:59, 20 June 2006 (EDT)

::'''The myth of over leveling''' I started leveling character totally "efficiently" and found that he was far from powerful because he was only increasing skills he needed to level up. When I started "wasting" skills increases I found I had a much more powerful and well rounded character. For example those levels where I was only trying to level up Strength, Intelligence and Endurance I couldn't use Destruction, Stealth, Security etc. So even though I had a high Magicka I couldn't cast anything because my skill wasn't high enough. When I started using all my skills but focusing on three primary skills so that when I leveled up I would have +5,+2,+2,+2,+1,+5,+5,+2,+1, I found my character ''more'' powerful as he could conjure a creature, shoot a fireball and strike with a sword. I think the magical skills can become very limited by low skills as you can't cast anything decent even though you may have high attributes. I mean there is still a lot of room for "wasted" points and you can always go to prison. [[User:Grandmaster z0b|Grandmaster z0b]] 02:59, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm not really much of a believer in the 5-5-5 or the 5-5-1 character development approach. I personally prefer a hybrid approach. I select Endurance and Luck as the favored Attributes for my custom character class, because of the immediate health and skill bonuses (as well as other luck-related bonuses). These are the only two attributes which have a permanent affect on the character. The health, or hit-points, earned by Endurance bonuses are cumulative between levels, so that one is fairly obvious.

Luck has an immediate effect on all skills, but that effect becomes diminished over time because the skills themselves increase faster than luck. Each skill has a cap of 100, at which point Luck has no effect whatsoever on that particular skill (with the exceptions of Athletics and Acrobatics). Choosing Luck as a favored attribute is one of the only ways you can boost it faster than one point at a time, so it has a fairly large impact on a Level 1 character. More importantly, it allows a low-level character to use the 5-5-5 approach for a longer period of time before switching to the 5-5-1 approach.

For instance, I calculate in advance the maximum level my character can attain (including factors like Hermaeus Mora, etc.), then I use a 5-5-5 approach until he reaches a level where he must begin incrementing his Luck in order to achieve the maximum of 100 by the time he reaches his maximum attainable level.

Suppose that I've determined the maximum level my character will attain is 54. If his Luck Attribute starts at 55 when he is a Level 1 character, then he must begin incrementing the Luck Attribute at Level 9, in order to achieve a final score of 100 when he reaches Level 54. So for the first eight levels I use the 5-5-5 approach, then I switch to the 5-5-1 approach. Choosing Luck as a favored attribute not only acts as a modifier on all of his skills (as well as numerous other computations), but it also delays the time that I need to switch from the 5-5-5 approach to the 5-5-1 approach by five character levels. If I choose any other Attribute as a favored Attribute for the five point bonus, that's the only five point bonus that my character will receive. However, if I choose the Luck Attribute, he not only gets a five point bonus for Luck from the outset of the game, when it has the most impact as an Attribute, but he also has five additional levels during which he can augment OTHER Attributes by five points each -- for a total of 30 Attribute bonus points, rather than a mere five.

I always focus on Endurance as the first Attribute to develop, simply because it maximizes potential hit points -- which is necessary for the survival of any character. Then I select any other two Attributes EXCEPT Personality to develop. The Personality Attribute, Mercantile Skill, and Speechcraft Skill have very little effect on combat. In noncombat situations, they can always be artificially elevated with enchanted items, spells, or potions. When all Attributes other than Personality and Luck have reached a score of 100, I then switch to a 5-1 approach, wherein I raise Personality by 5 points and Luck by 1 point for each level attained.

I'll let you meet my friend Galadril, and he can probably show you better than I can. Please note that the following example occurs within actual game play -- that the character is not being artificially trained through repetitive actions outside of the normal course of the plot of the game.

GALADRIL IN THE SEWERS

Galadril has just been freed from prison and needs to make his way back to civilization through the sewers. There are a lot of rats down there, and he's a little out of shape because of his time in prison. The rats aren't really much of a match for him, so he decides to use them for blocking practice as much as possible before he kills them. Even though the Block skill is one of his Minor Skills, he finds that there are enough rats down there to easily raise it to 25 (Apprentice Level) by the time he exits the sewers. It's probably a good thing that he selected more difficult skills as Major Skills, since the Block skill is sort of a "gimme."

He also chooses to wear only the heavy armor that he finds in the sewers, opting to carry the light armor on his back, because he's strictly focusing on skills related to the Endurance Attribute. He realizes, of course, that by achieving a +5 Endurance bonus as a low-level character, he will maximize his potential for health (hit points) when he is a higher-level character. He figures that no matter which character class he decides to play when he exits the sewers, this is going to be a critical survival factor for him. He can save the light armor for later, when he decides to work on his Speed Attribute.

Because he's so out of shape, he's also worried about encumbrance. So he decides to focus on his Blade, Blunt, and/or Hand-to-Hand skills. He tries to avoid using any skills other than those which are governed by Endurance or Strength, even though a little birdie in his head is telling him to do silly things like Sneak up on a goblin. He'd rather just fight the ugly thing, to develop a +5 bonus toward his Strength and Endurance Attributes. No matter which character class he ultimately decides to become when he exits the sewers, these two attributes are going to be of critical importance. He might be forced to use a little Restoration occasionally, sparingly, in emergencies, but he'd rather just take a nap for an hour when the action is over.

The only exception is that he might want to pick a lock or two, so that he can get a little loot for startup capital when he exits the sewers. But as soon as he sees all of the alchemy ingredients in the sewers, he makes his first career choice: the other skill he's going to develop is alchemy. No matter which character class he decides to become when he leaves the sewers, he's going to need some easy money. The ingredients are lightweight, and once they've been converted to potions they can be sold for a tremendous profit. It's almost like a license to print money. He also figures that it won't be long before he can make better potions for his own use, almost for free, than anything he might be able to purchase. So he gathers all of the alchemy ingredients he can find, opting to leave heavier, less valuable loot behind.

Galadril is also a strong believer in education, so he decides not to develop any of his Major Skills, thereby remaining a Level 1 character when he exits the sewers. As a result, when he starts using alchemy to finance his new career, he can simultaneously earn a +5 bonus toward his Intelligence Attribute before elevating to Level 2, which will have the byproduct of substantially increasing his Magicka.

GALADRIL IN THE FREE WORLD

After being liberated from prison, Galadril travels as fast as he can to Weynon Priory. When he arrives, Jauffre offers him a position as Assistant Kingmaker. It's not really a bad job, especially considering the benefits package -- a free storage chest, some heavy armor, some light armor, some weapons, a free horse, a repair hammer, some miscellaneous salable items, and an advanced book on blocking which he decides to store in his chest and read later when it is a little harder to learn on his own. After accepting the position, he sells all of his loot from the sewers and all of the weapons Jauffre had given him, keeping only the choicest heavy and light armor for himself, as well as his alchemy ingredients.

Next he travels to nearby Chorrol and joins the Mages Guild. As a member, he's entitled to use a full set of novice alchemy equipment to create his potions with. In fact, he can take ALL of their alchemy equipment, presumably polishing and cleaning it for them, and then sell it back to the guild, keeping only one complete set for himself! With his initial startup capital -- from loot, gifts, and refurbished alchemy equipment -- he buys all of the ingredients available in the city of Chorrol, creates as many potions as he can, then sells them to the Mages Guild. He stores all of the leftover ingredients, his alchemy equipment, and his spare armor in his chest at Weynon Priory. He's just been released from prison, and he's already on his way to being a wealthy man!

He's managed to keep all of the free heavy and light armor that he wanted, but he's sold ALL of his weapons, so his next priority is to outfit himself with some decent weapons. He figures the easiest way to accomplish that is to join the Fighter's Guild, right next door. They have a lot of old-fashioned iron weapons, free for the taking, but he figures that he'll be provided with some better weapons if he starts working for them. So, after joining the guild, he rides his new horse to Cheydinhal where he's provided with a weapons cache -- a STEEL bladed weapon, blunt weapon, and bow. And, By George! All of them are weightless, as light as a Feather. He figures that the more experienced guild fighters can hold off the goblins for a while and that it's more important to use these things to save the heir to the throne.

The only weapons he decides to buy (unless he can find them for free) are an iron dagger, an iron war axe, and a silver dagger (for emergency use in case he runs into any undead creatures). His high-tech weapons are entirely weightless, so he can easily afford to carry these relatively light-weight weapons throughout his adventures.

See, Galadril figures that since Endurance and Strength are so important to a low-level character, of any given profession, that he should continue developing them for a while. He can always use his high-tech, weightless weapons in a pinch, but if he uses some low-tech practice weapons for most of his fighting, he'll have to take a lot more swings at his opponents, which will increase his Blade or Blunt skills much more rapidly. Not only that, it will allow the opponent to strike his heavy armor a lot more times, increasing his Heavy Armor skill and his Armorer Skill. (What the heck? He's already rich enough to buy as many repair hammers as he needs, and he hasn't even really started his first quest yet!) Because of his proficiency with alchemy, he can use potions to restore health during combat rather than Restoration spells. Alchemy is fairly representative of all of the other magical disciplines, so it is extremely versatile. He can always study Restoration later, when he's decided to focus on his Willpower Attribute.

He's still a Level 1 character, outfitted with some of the best weapons and armor available during these early, primitive days of his freedom. He decides that he might as well continue buying alchemy ingredients until his alchemy rating is 25 (Apprentice Level) before advancing to Level 2. He can always study Conjuration or Mysticism later to boost his Intelligence Attribute. Not only that, he's well aware that when he becomes a Master Alchemist that it will more than double his profit potential for each ingredient he collects! And, of course, the potions that he keeps for himself will be more potent. He spends some of the cash on five points of training in one of his more difficult Major Skills, and banks the rest of it for later.

If you want to hear more about the life of Galadril, just let me know! (By the way, Nephele, I agree with your post 100%.)

[[User:Bbrass10|Bbrass10]] 17:44, 15 December 2007 (EST)

==Splitting Out Skill Boosting==

How about splitting out the section on boosting skills on to a new page? It could also use some better formatting and some editing. Plus the content needs some work. Anyone mind if I take a first pass at this on an unlinked page? [[User:Tikiman|Tikiman]] 17:05, 7 July 2006 (EDT)
:I think that would be great! I don't think that info should be buried on the Efficient Leveling page: even if you're not trying to play efficiently, you're likely to occasionally want to enhance certain skills (i.e., you're desperate for that next skill perk). I think a separate page ("Skill Training"?) could be linked to from some of the top-level pages.--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 17:47, 7 July 2006 (EDT)
::I created a page [[Oblivion:Skill_Boosting|Skill Boosting]] to distinguish manual leveling from going to trainers [[User:Tikiman|Tikiman]] 12:46, 8 July 2006 (EDT)

== Discussions Needed ==
Before unilaterally reversing changes just made by another contributor, I'd like to suggest that the people editing this page discuss what should be on this page. There are two issues that seem contentious, and keep getting added/deleted from this page:
* Do attribute raising tips belong here?
* Does under leveling belong here?
I think there needs to be a consensus reached on these questions before any more changes related to them are made.

My two cents are that:
* the attribute raising tips do '''not''' belong here. It is information useful in circumstances other than just efficient leveling. There is no reason why the efficient leveling page can't just link to the page on [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills]].
* under leveling doesn't belong here either; I think it's a different style of play than efficient leveling. There may be overlap, but there's enough about them to have them on separate pages that just cross-reference each other.
--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 16:33, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

: I think what you have just suggested is the way to go.
: I tried to take all the information on raising skills / attributes and combine them to make the [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills|Increasing Skills]] page. The old information was scattered around on pages like this efficient leveling page, and therefore hard to find. Now it can be linked from the skills page also, where there are probably just as many people looking for this kind of info.
: The under leveling section was also put in here by me, but I can see why its somewhat different than efficient leveling. Probably better to let it have its own page.
: -- [[User:Dieter|Dieter]] 07:56, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

::In the absence of any arguments at all in favour of keeping the attribute-raising tips here, I've deleted those sections from this page, and instead added a few links to [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills|Increasing Skills]]. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 19:40, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

== Article finally fixed! ==

This now appropriately talks about attributes rather than stupid "stats" or even worse: abilities, which are an entirely different thing (related to races or starsigns). How anyone could have written such a poorly worded article is beyond me.

Still, it says: "If you gain more than 10 skill points related to one attribute you have "wasted" the opportunity to use those to raise attributes" - why? aren't they used on the next level increase just like this? please check and fix this if needed. --[[User:FMan|FMan]] 08:32, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

:Nope, attribute bonuses do not roll over from one level to the next. See question/response at [[User talk:Truffle]]. As for whether or not it's a waste, that's another question: you have enough skill increases to increase your each attribute to 150 or more, so the skill points end up being wasted anyway. Why not use them early on and take advantage of having a more powerful character? But that's a different argument (which I brought up earlier on this page). --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 14:27, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

== Efficient Leveling experiment ==

I just started a new character and thought I could make a new section called "Efficient Leveling Example from lvl 1 to 10 (+5/+5/+1)" or similar.
I could update the page as my character grows in levels and gains skills and attributes.
Adding comments, tips and the ways how I leveled up different skills in different situations.
So this could work as a "real life example" of Efficient Leveling for the first, say, 10 levels.
I'll set up a page when I'm ready. - - [[User:Teknikaali|Teknikaali]]

== Somethings I don't Quite Understand... ==

I really thought this guide was helpful, mainly because I've been tyring to understand exactly how to get the +5 to an attributes when you level, but not really understanding it totally. This guide helped clear it up alot, but there are still some things I'm wondering. I mean, I know as soon as you get 100 in all major skills or attributes will make it so you can't level anymore, but not having 100s in all your skills seems like a much worse option than having not all 100s in your attributes... Is there some way to get both 100 in all your skills AND 100 in all your atributes? I think the idea is cool, but, I think a much better way to do this that lets you get your skills much higher could be done.... This is going to take alot of thought and math (Uck.), but I really want to explore on this. Thanks for writing the guide by the way, it really cleared alot of things up for me!

....Unfortuanatly, after reading this, I realize I'm gona have to start a new character....

I'll post my findings later somewere. --[[User:MrTaco122|MrTaco122]] 16:46, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Even if you get 100s in all your attributes (which is very difficult to do, since you can only ever get +1 for luck), you can still continue to increase your skills. You can keep increasing any skill after you've maxed out the governing attribute. You just don't receive any level-ups if the skills are major skills, but at that point all it means is that you don't get any health increases. So there's no fundamental problem with getting 100s in all attributes and all skills. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 02:23, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

== Max. Level 53--Max. Luck 100 ==

I'm not sure if any of these numbers would be helpful to anyone else or where(if anywhere)they belong.
I barely managed to pull myself away from my Efficient Leveling experiments to do a bit of simple math.
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong page or unimportant information.

Level 1--52 to Max. & Luck 50--50 to Max.

Level 3--50 to Max. & Luck 50--50 to Max.

Level 1--52 to Max. & Luck 55--45 to Max.

Level 8--45 to Max. & Luck 55--45 to Max.

This is mainly intended for those concerned with the attribute cap prematurely limiting the level max(before the Shivering Isles "Addiction" quest)seeing that Luck can be tricky.

== A fast way of leveling for 'pure' characters (10,10,10, / 10,10,1x2) ==

I thought you guys might be interested in a leveling method I'm using (I've not seen it mentioned or used anywhere else, so it might make a good addition to the forum).

It's the opposite of efficient leveling.

The idea is to skill-up three major skills ten times without sleeping. Providing you split the thirty skill-ups equally between the skills, without sleeping, you can basically average a +5 modifier for each of those skills' attributes when you eventually come to sleep, regardless of the order in which you skill-up each skill. (you have to sleep multiple times (once for each ten skill-ups)).

Or you can skill-up two major skills ten points each without sleeping and when you come to sleep, sleep twice and add the extra point to luck to effectively double the speed at which your luck attribute raises.

It's based on the idea that the best way to play is to create a focused, 'pure' character.

Here's more info on it (my post to the bethsoft.com forum).

It also includes some of my basic reasoning for the method

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=766542&st=0#

Hope you find it interesting.

--[[User:Hatesink|Hatesink]] 13:50, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

== A Diary For Console Users ==

I'm going start a round of Oblivion with some focus on Efficient Leveling, but since I'm playing on an Xbox, the [http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3629 skill diary mod] linked in the main article isn't really useful to me for tracking the stats. I Googled around for a sample spreadsheet I could use, and found a pretty good one (accompanied by a well-written explanation) [http://www.reardo.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26 here]. Any thoughts on how/if to link to this thread in the main article? [[User:Roddie|Roddie]] 00:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

==Own personal character maps==

Hi, would anyone be interested in posting their own personal efficient leveling method. So from level 1 to whichever level it took you to. Start for example with which race, birth sign, then what skills you raised at each level and by how much exactly. If you kept a record of it then it will be easy for you to copy down! I think this will be better for me to learn from because I'm having trouble with all this 5/5/5/ 5/5/1 stuff. Personally I like Breton's the best. Anything else I'd like to just copy for easiness sake. A few notes. I don't care about Personality so much, there is a simple spell which can increase your Mercantile by 100 for 1 second + Charm 100 on target for 1 second which works every time. Also I use the duplicate items glitch (scrolls method, PS3) so money is no problem, I can spend whatever I need on trainers or whatever. I'm not even sure if trainers count towards the whole 5/5/5 thing. Anyway if you do this thank you so much. It will increase my enjoyment of the game a lot. I can't give anything in return but gratitude. PS. I know the glitch is a cheat but it's my game which I paid for with my hard earned money and I have every right to cheat if I want to. It helps me enjoy the game better. {{Unsigned|90.197.201.207|18 June 2009}}

:I'm sorry, but the wiki is not a good place to share personal experiences. I'd recommend the [http://forums.uesp.net/ forums] instead. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]] < [[User_talk:Timenn|talk]] > 11:04, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

== Question about "overcoming the leveling problem (example 2) ==

This section confused me a lot. I didn't really understand what the problem with example 2 was. Should the character who had nine intelligence points level his alchemy/conjuration (minor skills) at the 10th point and then raise a major skill? I'd like someone to explain this and maybe reword the section to make it a bit more simple or explanatory :) --[[User:Blue deep|Blue deep]] 08:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

== Overcoming the Leveling Problem ==

<nowiki>I've changed the order of the sum below example one so that the figures are in the same order as the skills listed- just to make it clearer. I hope this is ok.</nowiki> -[[User:Snorkel.maiden|Snorkel.maiden]] 13:32, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

== Maximum possible level? ==

I never used any special "training" of yours, nor I did some special planning. I reached level 51, and I have still to raise something (I think maximum level I will ever have will be 53). I was asking myself, what's the highest level one can become? --[[Special:Contributions/195.60.143.253|195.60.143.253]] 20:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

== Help ==

I first played Oblivion afew years ago, leveling up as much as possible without thinking about getting 5/5/5 or 5/5/1, and towards the end the game was very difficult. However I did enjoy the game enough to want to play through it again, this time trying to create a stronger character. What i'm looking for is basically a battlemage, but a bit different. A character with reasonable endurance (higher health, block), reasonable strength (blade, and able to carry more stuff), but mostly I enjoy the spells. I'm leaning towards higher willpower first, to regenerate magika faster, although I also need
intelligence to have a large enough magika pool to cast the more expensive spells.
What ive got so far is a Breton, Lady birthsign, willpower and endurance as favoured attributes, and my major skills are blade, block, mysticism, alteration, destruction, restoration, and mercantile. I'm having trouble however getting the 5/5/5. I keep ending up with 5/3/3 no matter how many skill increases I get and i don't understand why. What would be ideal for me is 5 on intelligence, 5 on willpower and 5 on endurance for one level-up. And the next level up the same but instead of 5 on endurance, 5 on strength. And with each level-up change between strength and endurance. That way I can concentrate on magic use more, but still have decent strength and endurance. Could anyone please give me any advice on how it would be best to do this?

== My Bad/Good solution? ==

Create an Orc or Nord with all major skills as magic (including alchemy) And since you level up once every 10 skill level ups, simpily divide those evenly such as 3 blade, 3 block and 3, blunt and the last one doesnt really matter. If you do not wish to become an orc/nord just pick whatever skills your desired race would faulter in. i.e. Argonain comabt skills or an Orc with stealth/magic skills. Anyone really get what im saying? Im not good with writing or anything so it may be kind of un clear {{Unsigned|Gorilladin|03:03, 30 September 2010}}

:If I understand what you're saying, then that's basically the point of Efficient Levelling: choose skills that you can control when you level up as your major skills, then try and level up your minor skills together with the major skills to get the best results possible. – [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|'''talk''']] 21:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

:What exactly do you mean by 'level up your minor skills together with the major skiils'?[[User:Gorilladin|Gorilladin]] 17:46, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion talk:Amulet of Kings

2010-09-30T21:54:51Z

Gorilladin: /* Not dupeable */

== Page Edits ==
I edited this page considerable. Please forgive me as there are many names I cannot remember (the dragon god for one...), and as such I left the stub attachment on the page. Please improve on what I wrote, as I know little of the Amulet's history, and this is one of the most important items in the main quest of Oblivion. --[[User:Joshua Boniface|Joshua Boniface]] 00:18, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

:I am currently working on the [[Lore:Amulet of Kings]] article (yet to be posted), and will transclude the data pertinent to such in Oblivion once it is complete (say, in a week or so). That much aside, you have done a nice job on the article. There is some data that is ambiguous (and some that is wrong), however, it is of little import, as the overall effect is superb. Good work!
:Oh, also, the "dragon god" is Akatosh. -- [[User:Booyah boy|Booyah boy]] 00:53, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

::I added some history I remember reading somewhere. I'm new and still struggle with editing, but could someone add some more links if they feel like some are missing? -- [[User:68.158.137.60|Anonymous]] 17:06, 30 June 2007 (EDT) -- Anonymous 21 November 2007

::: Considering the fact that the Amulet must have been worn by an Heir of the first Queen through the centuries, it could be interesting if anyone had noticed any apperance of it in history. I especially wonder where it has been during the long the period between the end of the First Era and the beginning of the second one, When the Akaviri potentate ruled the empire {{unsigned|82.245.65.206|19:55, 26 November 2007}}

== RefID & Wearing ==
The RefID for the Amulet of Kings is 000250A0. If you go into the console and type "player.additem 000250A0 1" and then "player.equipitem 000250A0 1" you are able to wear it. --[[Special:Contributions/24.2.195.160|24.2.195.160]] 15:57, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

:Thank you, it would be nice if the code was placed in the article, or in the upper right corner under the picture. The code is hard to find on this site and searching for 'amulet of kings' keeps coming up with either the book, this article or the lore article, none of which gives the code for the amulet. [[User:Bamspeedy|Bamspeedy]] 16:07, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

::It may not be the most intuitive place, but you can find the ID for most things at [[Oblivion:ConsoleItemCodes|ConsoleItemCodes]]. ‒ [[User:RobinHood70|'''Robin Hood''']]↝[[User_talk:RobinHood70|Talk]] 21:25, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

==Not a glitch==
Anonymous user 212.238.240.215 posted this on the main page:
:During the [[Oblivion:Dagon_Shrine|main quest: Dagon Shrine]], [[Oblivion:Mankar_Camoran|Mankar Camoran]] can be seen wearing the amulet, which means he should be a Septim (which is most unlikely).

Quoting directly from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mankar_Camoran Wikipedia]:
:''"It is unknown how Mankar Camoran was able to wear the Amulet of Kings, since only those of Dragon blood can wear it. However, it is said in the Making of Oblivion Documentary, that Mankar Camoran is descended from another line of Princes, and is trying to claim Tamriel for them. This may provide insight as why he can wear the Amulet of Kings."''

== Using Amulet of Kings ==

Is there a possible way to wear, keep, and drop the Amulet of Kings? And is it a Daedric artifact? (This is for Xbox 360) Added by: Cloud strife
:''(question was moved here after originally being posted at [[UESPWiki:Reference Desk]])''
:No, it is not supposed to be an item that the player uses. As for whether or not it's an artifact, we've chosen not to add it to the page [[Oblivion:Artifacts]] because it is not a useful item to the player. See the discussion at [[Oblivion_Talk:Artifacts#New Criteria]], for example. Even ignoring its usefulness, it would not be categorized as a Daedric artifact, because it was not created by one of the [[Lore:Daedric Princes|Daedric Princes]]. If anything, it would be categorized as an Aedric artifact, because it was created by the Aedra [[Lore:Akatosh|Akatosh]]. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:25, 31 December 2007 (EST)

Does all this therefore mean the Amulet doesn't have an ID number to enable you to drop it?

The reason Mancar may weild the Amulet of Kings is because he is in HIS paradise realm, which HE is in control of certain things, ie: being able to wear the Amulet of Kings.

He's also wearing it when you first see him in the lake arrius caverns, preaching to his followers. [[Special:Contributions/79.65.93.125|79.65.93.125]] 21:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Doesn't make sense. ==

The whole plot surrounding the Amulet is swiss cheese, from a plot consistency perspective.

1. '''Alessia wasn't a Septim.''' She was the one who made the covenant with Akatosh.

2. '''The Remans weren't Septims.''' They possessed the Amulet for most of its existence, and apparently it worked just fine.

3. Tiber Septim found the amulet in Reman III's tomb at Sancre Tor. '''So what?'''

4a. No mention is made of the Dragonfires prior to the Oblivion quest arc, in any literature, ever.

4b. The Dragonfires would have failed during the Akaviri Interregnum as well, and no mention is made of that.

5. '''Martin is also not a Septim''', as in fact most of the Septim rulers were descended from Tiber Septim's brother, Agnorith. Tiber Septim's bloodline died with Pelagius I, his immediate heir, who died childless. Every ruler from Kintyra merely took the '''name''' of Septim, to legitimize their claim to Tiber Septim's legacy. They are not his descendants, and therefore do not possess "the blood of Tiber Septim".

6. Uriel IV wasn't even descended from Agnorith: his mother was a Septim's queen, and his father was a commoner. He was only a Septim by legality, not blood. Yet there is no mention of the Amulet or the Dragonfires failing him.

Given these facts, ''why can't the Player Character wear the Amulet?''

From a lore perspective, Oblivion's core story is Doubleplus Epic Fail. --[[User:70.131.55.20|70.131.55.20]] 14:40, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

:Wait, let me get this straight. You are rating an entire videogame's storyline as "Epic Fail", because of a few, extremely minor developer oversights that hardly anyone would ever notice, and even fewer would give a care? You have some unrealistically high standards. --[[User:Darth NANAME|Darth NANAME]] 18:17, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

::Hi. I wrote the above. So let ''me'' get ''this'' straight. You think it's a "minor developer oversight" that the entire basis of the story for this video game is logically inconsistent, and cannot be true even standing by itself, much less by all the previous lore of the Elder Scrolls? You may not be aware that Oblivion is the 4th game of the series, and there is already a well-established backstory which predates it, and which the story told in Oblivion completely contradicts in every way. You're absolutely right. It's unrealistic for me to expect a game to make sense. You win. --[[User:76.202.248.34|76.202.248.34]] 08:37, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:: I agree with Darth NANAME, and this is why:
:::* Alessia wasn't a Septim indeed, but the Septims are her heirs, according to the book about the Amulet.
:::* The Septims are the only ones who can wear the Amulet '''Today'''. Nobody ever claimed that the amulet couldn't be worn by others '''in the past'''.
:::* Why aren't the Dragonfires ever mentioned? Nobody knows their power, exept for the Emperor, as is hinted and told by Jauffre and Baurus during the Main Quest.
:::* The Septims had septim blood only in formality? Tiber and Agnorith were brothers! Agnorith's last name was also 'septim'!
:::* Martin not a Septim? Martin isn't descended from Uriel IV, but from Cephorus II, who had Septim blood, being a ligitimate child of Cassynder.
::How is that for a 'Doubleplus Epic Fail'? -- [[User:LordDagon|LordDagon]] 11:29, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

:::In what way are the Septims "Alessia's heirs" ? "A book told me so" is not an answer. Hjalti Early-Beard (Tiber Septim's actual name and identity as a Nord) is in no way related to Alessia or the Remans, and the Remans are also in no way related to Alessia. Martin is also in no way related to Hjalti Early-Beard.
:::By what logic can you propose that the rules of the Amulet change with time? By whose whim? By what mechanism? The game does in fact strictly state that the Amulet can only be worn by someone with Septim blood, which excludes even those people in the game who end up wearing it: Martin and Mankar Camoran. You can hardly deny that the developers simply ignored everything they were telling the player while fashioning the main quest.
:::A brother of Tiber Septim is not of Tiber Septim's blood. Tiber Septim is the dynast, not his father. Agnorith's last name was not, in fact, Septim. Septim was a name assumed by Tiber, and was not his family name. RTFL before you comment.
:::Please explain to me why you think Cephorus II was a "ligitimate" child of Cassynder? Why would Cassynder disinherited him in favor of Uriel Lariat if that were the case? You're making up lore to explain faults of lore. Cephorous II actually has no known relation to Agnorith, and certainly no relation to Tiber Septim.
:::You also fail to account for the Akaviri Interregnum, which was all of the Second Era. You could at least have tried to make something up. Perhaps Versidue-Shaie was also an "heir of Alessia" ? He was from another continent, but that doesn't seem to matter to you.
:::So yeah, I'd say that's pretty good for a doubleplus epic fail. Thanks for contributing. Thanks for nothing. --[[User:76.202.248.34|76.202.248.34]] 08:37, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Well done. Oblivion's plot may well be doubleplus epic phail, but there are answers to all your questions, who can wear the AoK and who can't and why, as well as its true origin and purpose. As the KotN prophet says: "There is truth in the blood, but it is no the truth you seek." I can't explain it all very well here, but a search on the Bethsoft lore forum would answer. {{unsigned|Temple-Zero|27 July 2008}}
::I am the one who brought this to the attention of the Bethsoft lore forum. Last time I looked for responses there were none that were coherent. Quite simply, the only answer is "the game was rushed and the plot doesn't make sense as a result". It can't be retconned into being good unless one discards most of TES lore along with it. --[[User:76.202.248.34|76.202.248.34]] 08:37, 11 December 2008 (EST)

::: Hey, be nice. Also, I'm not sure if Mankar Cameron did wear it, or if he just held it. Plus, if you're in your own world of your own making, it is quite possible that you can do whatever you want. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] [[User_Talk:Timmeh|Talk]] 08:56, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Perhaps we should all take a moment to consider this: It's a game, the operative word here being GAME. It is supposed to be fun, not real life. If it were real life, it would involve going to work in a small, grey cube of an office, and wishing 5 PM would come sooner. The main concept of "fantasy role-playing" is escapism. Having the ability to immerse yourself in a completely different world, and getting to mash some monster with a hammer. That is how it should be played> Instead of thinking: "Mankar Camoran can't wear that because he's not a Spetim and neither was <insert name here> because apparently some other IMAGINARY character died before having kids" Try thinking this: "wow cool there's this wizard chap who is evil and I am going to have to kill him with my big axe." [[User:Auguil|Auguil]] 19:23, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

:: Timmeh: Indeed Mankar Camoran (Not Cameron) does wear the Amulet of Kings around his neck when you encounter him in the Dagon Shrine and any time thereafter. That's probably so you can't steal it from him, even if you knock him out. But you didn't need me to tell you that: there is a screenshot of him wearing it on [[Oblivion:Mankar_Camoran|his NPC page]]. Indeed, it is pretty goofy and inconsistent lore. But you can get overlook it if you don't read too many in-game books. --[[User:Nocturnal|Nocturnal]] 00:39, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, I think that the dragon blood isn't something that is geneticaly passed down. The following are parts of the lore article on Tiber Septim.
A general of Nordic descent, Emperor Tiber Septim is regarded as one of the most famed figures in Tamriellian history, reigning from 2E 854-3E 38. Starting from his service under the Cyrodiilic king Cuhlecain, General Talos fought to unify Cyrodiil and finally all of Tamriel, an effort that culminated in 2E 896, with the birth of the Third Empire. He is also responsible for declaring the onset of the Third Era in 2E 897.[1] He ruled for 38 years and is considered by most to be the best emperor throughout history. Tiber Septim gave his name to the lineage of Cyrodiil Emperors, the Septims.
Born in Atmora under the name Talos, meaning Stormcrown in the old Ehlnofey. He spent his youth in Skyrim, there learning the ancient art of the Tongues as well as the strategies of war from the chieftains there. At the age of 20 he led the invasion of Old Hrol'dan, taking it back from the Witchmen of High Rock. Soon after this it became known from the arriving storms that the Greybeards were about to speak. As the nearby villages were being evacuated, Talos, instead, made his way to the mountains where the Greybeards lived. When he arrived, the gags of the Greybeards were removed and when they spoke his name the World shook. The Greybeards told Talos that he would come to rule Tamriel and that he must go south to do so.

Talos became General of the Colovian Estates under King, and later Emperor, Cuhlecain. General Talos met the combined army of Skyrim and High Rock on the field of Sancre Tor. The Skyrim army joined his when they saw him use the thu'um and knew him to be the son of Skyrim and heir to the Empires of Men. He was almost killed, along with Emperor Cuhlecain, in 2E 854 by a High Rock nightblade who slit his throat. Although he could no longer use the Voice, he went on to command Tamriel with a whisper. He took the Cyrodilic name Tiber Septim as well as a Nordic name, Ysmir, the Dragon of the North. Tiber Septim died in 3E 38.

== re:using amulet of Kings ==

I can't remeber what level exactly,but if you recieve the spelldrinker amulet(mages guild) at the correct level,it will appear like the amulet of kings.

It is level 15+ and you recieve it when you reach Evoker rank.Go to the [[Oblivion:Spelldrinker Amulet|Spelldrinker Amulet]] page for more info. ''Enjoy'' --[[User:Prince of Madness|Prince of Madness]] 00:31, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

[[Oblivion:Arnora's Amulet|Arnora's Amulet]], obtained during the quest [[Oblivion:Two Sides of the Coin|Two Sides of the Coin]], is a very close match. The "True" version is almost identical save the eight gems around the rim and brighter color. It can also be enchanted (and thus renamed). [[User:76.27.253.80|76.27.253.80]] 01:26, 14 December 2008 (EST)

== Reverted change... ==

Okay. Why my change has been reverted? - [[User:ZuTheSkunk|ZuTheSkunk]] 11:51, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
: I'm afraid the original version was much better. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 13:18, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

==Magic==
On the whole "why can some wear and others not" "Swiss cheese story" argument are we not loosing track of the fact we are talking about a video game based around magic? because we have no true understanding of how this law of physics works things like this cannot be concrete, their could be forces at work that we have not yet encountered and loop holes undiscovered. For example define "the blood of a septim" if it means DNA then technically that vanished years due to mathematical entropy ago as it would of vanished long long ago. What is written is not all that is there!

:True. I, for one, don't need a huge explenation. Mankar's a powerful guy, he can do stuff. That's my explenation. :) --[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|''Arch-Mage Matt'']] [[Special:Contributions/Arch-Mage Matt|Did '''I''' Do That?]] 20:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:: While I'm not going to get too involved in this, the original anon's arguments are far from bulletproof.

:: The first four arguments are all the same: nobody prior to Tiber Septim was a Septim. Well obviously I'm not going to disagree with that, but nothing in the lore precludes some new ritual being established. Nobody disputes Tiber's apotheosis, and it's not unreasonable to assume some kind of new condition coming into effect as a result of that. Grasping at straws? Possibly, but you can't ''deny'' that possibility.

:: Martin '''was''' a Septim... up to a point. Brothers and sisters share 50% of their chromosomes, so Agnorith was 50% Septim at least.... and possibly more if his and Tiber's parents shared other genes. I '''know''' this is a stretch, but hey. Deal with it.

:: Nobody is claiming that Uriel IV is a Septim (except himself, presumably). It's well established that Cephorus was "a cousin more closely related to the original Septim line", so it's entirely possible that the bloodline remains intact, albeit not through a firstborn line.

:: Now I'm not going to claim that there aren't huge holes in the Oblivion plot, but I will say that they aren't as large as some people make them out to be. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 22:27, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Mankar Camoran was powerful, and very wise. I believe he found a way to wear the amulet using his mind and magic. We can also say that he can wear the amulet because he exists prior the amulet. --[[User:Rigas Papadopoulos|Rigas Papadopoulos]] 15:12, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

== IS THIS POSSIBLE? ==

OK, so is it possible to acquire an unscripted version from the Shivering Isles? The one quest where a complete duplicate of you is created, would it hold a wearable amulet? [[User:Themasterofpuppets|Themasterofpuppets]] 19:06, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:Yes. --[[User:Rigas Papadopoulos|Rigas Papadopoulos]] 15:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

== Not dupeable ==

I attempted this myself and the amulet of kings cannot be duped even using the skull of corruption on Martin the amulet doesn't even show up on the clone when he is wearing it! Doesn't make sense but whatever. {{Unsigned|68.117.113.18|02:41, 11 September 20

Using the 'Duplicate self glitch' and searching your clone will also reveal that it isnt Dupeable

Oblivion talk:Efficient Leveling

2010-09-30T03:03:31Z

Gorilladin: /* My Bad/Good solution? */ new section

==What is Efficient?==
Given the way levelling works in Oblivion, I have adopted a personal definition of "efficiency" that is based on making my characters as strong as possible at a given level. This leads to gameplay that in some respects agrees with this page, but in other respects noticeably differs.

I agree with this page in that I'm pretty obsessive about getting 5/5/5 bonuses
(or 5/5/1 once I start boosting luck) and reaching 100 in attributes as quickly as possible: the only character improvement that happens when you level up is the attribute bonuses, so I think it's critical to get maximum attribute bonuses to stay competitive with the NPCs.

But, I don't believe in not "wasting" skill points. Instead I intentionally
"waste" alot of skill points at early levels. So, for example, at level 1, I will increase both alchemy and conjuration from 5 to at least 25 to get them to apprentice level right away, essentially wasting 30 skill points. I want to have as many high skills at possible at low levels (especially so I can survive with the difficulty slider pushed to the left).

This strategy adds its own challenges. You need to be sure to not waste too many skill points, i.e. not delay or prevent reaching 100 in any attributes. You need to accept that increasing skills rapidly early on will require some painful skill training later in the game, since getting a skill from 95 to 100 is so much more difficult than getting it from, say, 65 to 70.

So in reading this page I'm led to wonder what does not wasting skill points buy you?
How does that make characters stronger? Or is it primarily an aesthetic preference? And would those who've contributed to the page so far be open to introducing some changes, e.g., modifying the definition of "efficient" and trying to present a couple different philosophies related to skill increases?

--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 23:59, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

: I think it all comes down to balance and personal prefernce. Sure, not wasting any skills and doing the 5/5/1 thing every level will get you a more powerful character more quickly, but for the most part, this process can be tedious and just not very fun to play. (Being careful to walk everywhere instead of running so as to not accidentally train your Athletics, selling 100 potions one at a time to train Mercantile, constantly summoning creatures and attacking them just to raise your combat skills, just seems like busy-work when you could be having fun playing the quests and exploring the world instead. I think you need to balance out how much patience you have for repetitive tasks vs. how much you'd rather just enjoy the game and not worry about that stuff. Sure, it's good to keep it in mind, but I'd say don't go crazy over it. But hey, whatever floats your boat. You could instead do the level-as-fast-as-you-can thing and not worry about multipliers at all, if you really like a challenge. Or you could train like a machine so as to be sure that every fight later in the game will be a piece of cake. But I suspect most people will do something somewhere in the middle of this range instead. -- [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] 00:59, 20 June 2006 (EDT)

::'''The myth of over leveling''' I started leveling character totally "efficiently" and found that he was far from powerful because he was only increasing skills he needed to level up. When I started "wasting" skills increases I found I had a much more powerful and well rounded character. For example those levels where I was only trying to level up Strength, Intelligence and Endurance I couldn't use Destruction, Stealth, Security etc. So even though I had a high Magicka I couldn't cast anything because my skill wasn't high enough. When I started using all my skills but focusing on three primary skills so that when I leveled up I would have +5,+2,+2,+2,+1,+5,+5,+2,+1, I found my character ''more'' powerful as he could conjure a creature, shoot a fireball and strike with a sword. I think the magical skills can become very limited by low skills as you can't cast anything decent even though you may have high attributes. I mean there is still a lot of room for "wasted" points and you can always go to prison. [[User:Grandmaster z0b|Grandmaster z0b]] 02:59, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm not really much of a believer in the 5-5-5 or the 5-5-1 character development approach. I personally prefer a hybrid approach. I select Endurance and Luck as the favored Attributes for my custom character class, because of the immediate health and skill bonuses (as well as other luck-related bonuses). These are the only two attributes which have a permanent affect on the character. The health, or hit-points, earned by Endurance bonuses are cumulative between levels, so that one is fairly obvious.

Luck has an immediate effect on all skills, but that effect becomes diminished over time because the skills themselves increase faster than luck. Each skill has a cap of 100, at which point Luck has no effect whatsoever on that particular skill (with the exceptions of Athletics and Acrobatics). Choosing Luck as a favored attribute is one of the only ways you can boost it faster than one point at a time, so it has a fairly large impact on a Level 1 character. More importantly, it allows a low-level character to use the 5-5-5 approach for a longer period of time before switching to the 5-5-1 approach.

For instance, I calculate in advance the maximum level my character can attain (including factors like Hermaeus Mora, etc.), then I use a 5-5-5 approach until he reaches a level where he must begin incrementing his Luck in order to achieve the maximum of 100 by the time he reaches his maximum attainable level.

Suppose that I've determined the maximum level my character will attain is 54. If his Luck Attribute starts at 55 when he is a Level 1 character, then he must begin incrementing the Luck Attribute at Level 9, in order to achieve a final score of 100 when he reaches Level 54. So for the first eight levels I use the 5-5-5 approach, then I switch to the 5-5-1 approach. Choosing Luck as a favored attribute not only acts as a modifier on all of his skills (as well as numerous other computations), but it also delays the time that I need to switch from the 5-5-5 approach to the 5-5-1 approach by five character levels. If I choose any other Attribute as a favored Attribute for the five point bonus, that's the only five point bonus that my character will receive. However, if I choose the Luck Attribute, he not only gets a five point bonus for Luck from the outset of the game, when it has the most impact as an Attribute, but he also has five additional levels during which he can augment OTHER Attributes by five points each -- for a total of 30 Attribute bonus points, rather than a mere five.

I always focus on Endurance as the first Attribute to develop, simply because it maximizes potential hit points -- which is necessary for the survival of any character. Then I select any other two Attributes EXCEPT Personality to develop. The Personality Attribute, Mercantile Skill, and Speechcraft Skill have very little effect on combat. In noncombat situations, they can always be artificially elevated with enchanted items, spells, or potions. When all Attributes other than Personality and Luck have reached a score of 100, I then switch to a 5-1 approach, wherein I raise Personality by 5 points and Luck by 1 point for each level attained.

I'll let you meet my friend Galadril, and he can probably show you better than I can. Please note that the following example occurs within actual game play -- that the character is not being artificially trained through repetitive actions outside of the normal course of the plot of the game.

GALADRIL IN THE SEWERS

Galadril has just been freed from prison and needs to make his way back to civilization through the sewers. There are a lot of rats down there, and he's a little out of shape because of his time in prison. The rats aren't really much of a match for him, so he decides to use them for blocking practice as much as possible before he kills them. Even though the Block skill is one of his Minor Skills, he finds that there are enough rats down there to easily raise it to 25 (Apprentice Level) by the time he exits the sewers. It's probably a good thing that he selected more difficult skills as Major Skills, since the Block skill is sort of a "gimme."

He also chooses to wear only the heavy armor that he finds in the sewers, opting to carry the light armor on his back, because he's strictly focusing on skills related to the Endurance Attribute. He realizes, of course, that by achieving a +5 Endurance bonus as a low-level character, he will maximize his potential for health (hit points) when he is a higher-level character. He figures that no matter which character class he decides to play when he exits the sewers, this is going to be a critical survival factor for him. He can save the light armor for later, when he decides to work on his Speed Attribute.

Because he's so out of shape, he's also worried about encumbrance. So he decides to focus on his Blade, Blunt, and/or Hand-to-Hand skills. He tries to avoid using any skills other than those which are governed by Endurance or Strength, even though a little birdie in his head is telling him to do silly things like Sneak up on a goblin. He'd rather just fight the ugly thing, to develop a +5 bonus toward his Strength and Endurance Attributes. No matter which character class he ultimately decides to become when he exits the sewers, these two attributes are going to be of critical importance. He might be forced to use a little Restoration occasionally, sparingly, in emergencies, but he'd rather just take a nap for an hour when the action is over.

The only exception is that he might want to pick a lock or two, so that he can get a little loot for startup capital when he exits the sewers. But as soon as he sees all of the alchemy ingredients in the sewers, he makes his first career choice: the other skill he's going to develop is alchemy. No matter which character class he decides to become when he leaves the sewers, he's going to need some easy money. The ingredients are lightweight, and once they've been converted to potions they can be sold for a tremendous profit. It's almost like a license to print money. He also figures that it won't be long before he can make better potions for his own use, almost for free, than anything he might be able to purchase. So he gathers all of the alchemy ingredients he can find, opting to leave heavier, less valuable loot behind.

Galadril is also a strong believer in education, so he decides not to develop any of his Major Skills, thereby remaining a Level 1 character when he exits the sewers. As a result, when he starts using alchemy to finance his new career, he can simultaneously earn a +5 bonus toward his Intelligence Attribute before elevating to Level 2, which will have the byproduct of substantially increasing his Magicka.

GALADRIL IN THE FREE WORLD

After being liberated from prison, Galadril travels as fast as he can to Weynon Priory. When he arrives, Jauffre offers him a position as Assistant Kingmaker. It's not really a bad job, especially considering the benefits package -- a free storage chest, some heavy armor, some light armor, some weapons, a free horse, a repair hammer, some miscellaneous salable items, and an advanced book on blocking which he decides to store in his chest and read later when it is a little harder to learn on his own. After accepting the position, he sells all of his loot from the sewers and all of the weapons Jauffre had given him, keeping only the choicest heavy and light armor for himself, as well as his alchemy ingredients.

Next he travels to nearby Chorrol and joins the Mages Guild. As a member, he's entitled to use a full set of novice alchemy equipment to create his potions with. In fact, he can take ALL of their alchemy equipment, presumably polishing and cleaning it for them, and then sell it back to the guild, keeping only one complete set for himself! With his initial startup capital -- from loot, gifts, and refurbished alchemy equipment -- he buys all of the ingredients available in the city of Chorrol, creates as many potions as he can, then sells them to the Mages Guild. He stores all of the leftover ingredients, his alchemy equipment, and his spare armor in his chest at Weynon Priory. He's just been released from prison, and he's already on his way to being a wealthy man!

He's managed to keep all of the free heavy and light armor that he wanted, but he's sold ALL of his weapons, so his next priority is to outfit himself with some decent weapons. He figures the easiest way to accomplish that is to join the Fighter's Guild, right next door. They have a lot of old-fashioned iron weapons, free for the taking, but he figures that he'll be provided with some better weapons if he starts working for them. So, after joining the guild, he rides his new horse to Cheydinhal where he's provided with a weapons cache -- a STEEL bladed weapon, blunt weapon, and bow. And, By George! All of them are weightless, as light as a Feather. He figures that the more experienced guild fighters can hold off the goblins for a while and that it's more important to use these things to save the heir to the throne.

The only weapons he decides to buy (unless he can find them for free) are an iron dagger, an iron war axe, and a silver dagger (for emergency use in case he runs into any undead creatures). His high-tech weapons are entirely weightless, so he can easily afford to carry these relatively light-weight weapons throughout his adventures.

See, Galadril figures that since Endurance and Strength are so important to a low-level character, of any given profession, that he should continue developing them for a while. He can always use his high-tech, weightless weapons in a pinch, but if he uses some low-tech practice weapons for most of his fighting, he'll have to take a lot more swings at his opponents, which will increase his Blade or Blunt skills much more rapidly. Not only that, it will allow the opponent to strike his heavy armor a lot more times, increasing his Heavy Armor skill and his Armorer Skill. (What the heck? He's already rich enough to buy as many repair hammers as he needs, and he hasn't even really started his first quest yet!) Because of his proficiency with alchemy, he can use potions to restore health during combat rather than Restoration spells. Alchemy is fairly representative of all of the other magical disciplines, so it is extremely versatile. He can always study Restoration later, when he's decided to focus on his Willpower Attribute.

He's still a Level 1 character, outfitted with some of the best weapons and armor available during these early, primitive days of his freedom. He decides that he might as well continue buying alchemy ingredients until his alchemy rating is 25 (Apprentice Level) before advancing to Level 2. He can always study Conjuration or Mysticism later to boost his Intelligence Attribute. Not only that, he's well aware that when he becomes a Master Alchemist that it will more than double his profit potential for each ingredient he collects! And, of course, the potions that he keeps for himself will be more potent. He spends some of the cash on five points of training in one of his more difficult Major Skills, and banks the rest of it for later.

If you want to hear more about the life of Galadril, just let me know! (By the way, Nephele, I agree with your post 100%.)

[[User:Bbrass10|Bbrass10]] 17:44, 15 December 2007 (EST)

==Splitting Out Skill Boosting==

How about splitting out the section on boosting skills on to a new page? It could also use some better formatting and some editing. Plus the content needs some work. Anyone mind if I take a first pass at this on an unlinked page? [[User:Tikiman|Tikiman]] 17:05, 7 July 2006 (EDT)
:I think that would be great! I don't think that info should be buried on the Efficient Leveling page: even if you're not trying to play efficiently, you're likely to occasionally want to enhance certain skills (i.e., you're desperate for that next skill perk). I think a separate page ("Skill Training"?) could be linked to from some of the top-level pages.--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 17:47, 7 July 2006 (EDT)
::I created a page [[Oblivion:Skill_Boosting|Skill Boosting]] to distinguish manual leveling from going to trainers [[User:Tikiman|Tikiman]] 12:46, 8 July 2006 (EDT)

== Discussions Needed ==
Before unilaterally reversing changes just made by another contributor, I'd like to suggest that the people editing this page discuss what should be on this page. There are two issues that seem contentious, and keep getting added/deleted from this page:
* Do attribute raising tips belong here?
* Does under leveling belong here?
I think there needs to be a consensus reached on these questions before any more changes related to them are made.

My two cents are that:
* the attribute raising tips do '''not''' belong here. It is information useful in circumstances other than just efficient leveling. There is no reason why the efficient leveling page can't just link to the page on [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills]].
* under leveling doesn't belong here either; I think it's a different style of play than efficient leveling. There may be overlap, but there's enough about them to have them on separate pages that just cross-reference each other.
--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 16:33, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

: I think what you have just suggested is the way to go.
: I tried to take all the information on raising skills / attributes and combine them to make the [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills|Increasing Skills]] page. The old information was scattered around on pages like this efficient leveling page, and therefore hard to find. Now it can be linked from the skills page also, where there are probably just as many people looking for this kind of info.
: The under leveling section was also put in here by me, but I can see why its somewhat different than efficient leveling. Probably better to let it have its own page.
: -- [[User:Dieter|Dieter]] 07:56, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

::In the absence of any arguments at all in favour of keeping the attribute-raising tips here, I've deleted those sections from this page, and instead added a few links to [[Oblivion:Increasing Skills|Increasing Skills]]. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 19:40, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

== Article finally fixed! ==

This now appropriately talks about attributes rather than stupid "stats" or even worse: abilities, which are an entirely different thing (related to races or starsigns). How anyone could have written such a poorly worded article is beyond me.

Still, it says: "If you gain more than 10 skill points related to one attribute you have "wasted" the opportunity to use those to raise attributes" - why? aren't they used on the next level increase just like this? please check and fix this if needed. --[[User:FMan|FMan]] 08:32, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

:Nope, attribute bonuses do not roll over from one level to the next. See question/response at [[User talk:Truffle]]. As for whether or not it's a waste, that's another question: you have enough skill increases to increase your each attribute to 150 or more, so the skill points end up being wasted anyway. Why not use them early on and take advantage of having a more powerful character? But that's a different argument (which I brought up earlier on this page). --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 14:27, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

== Efficient Leveling experiment ==

I just started a new character and thought I could make a new section called "Efficient Leveling Example from lvl 1 to 10 (+5/+5/+1)" or similar.
I could update the page as my character grows in levels and gains skills and attributes.
Adding comments, tips and the ways how I leveled up different skills in different situations.
So this could work as a "real life example" of Efficient Leveling for the first, say, 10 levels.
I'll set up a page when I'm ready. - - [[User:Teknikaali|Teknikaali]]

== Somethings I don't Quite Understand... ==

I really thought this guide was helpful, mainly because I've been tyring to understand exactly how to get the +5 to an attributes when you level, but not really understanding it totally. This guide helped clear it up alot, but there are still some things I'm wondering. I mean, I know as soon as you get 100 in all major skills or attributes will make it so you can't level anymore, but not having 100s in all your skills seems like a much worse option than having not all 100s in your attributes... Is there some way to get both 100 in all your skills AND 100 in all your atributes? I think the idea is cool, but, I think a much better way to do this that lets you get your skills much higher could be done.... This is going to take alot of thought and math (Uck.), but I really want to explore on this. Thanks for writing the guide by the way, it really cleared alot of things up for me!

....Unfortuanatly, after reading this, I realize I'm gona have to start a new character....

I'll post my findings later somewere. --[[User:MrTaco122|MrTaco122]] 16:46, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Even if you get 100s in all your attributes (which is very difficult to do, since you can only ever get +1 for luck), you can still continue to increase your skills. You can keep increasing any skill after you've maxed out the governing attribute. You just don't receive any level-ups if the skills are major skills, but at that point all it means is that you don't get any health increases. So there's no fundamental problem with getting 100s in all attributes and all skills. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]] 02:23, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

== Max. Level 53--Max. Luck 100 ==

I'm not sure if any of these numbers would be helpful to anyone else or where(if anywhere)they belong.
I barely managed to pull myself away from my Efficient Leveling experiments to do a bit of simple math.
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong page or unimportant information.

Level 1--52 to Max. & Luck 50--50 to Max.

Level 3--50 to Max. & Luck 50--50 to Max.

Level 1--52 to Max. & Luck 55--45 to Max.

Level 8--45 to Max. & Luck 55--45 to Max.

This is mainly intended for those concerned with the attribute cap prematurely limiting the level max(before the Shivering Isles "Addiction" quest)seeing that Luck can be tricky.

== A fast way of leveling for 'pure' characters (10,10,10, / 10,10,1x2) ==

I thought you guys might be interested in a leveling method I'm using (I've not seen it mentioned or used anywhere else, so it might make a good addition to the forum).

It's the opposite of efficient leveling.

The idea is to skill-up three major skills ten times without sleeping. Providing you split the thirty skill-ups equally between the skills, without sleeping, you can basically average a +5 modifier for each of those skills' attributes when you eventually come to sleep, regardless of the order in which you skill-up each skill. (you have to sleep multiple times (once for each ten skill-ups)).

Or you can skill-up two major skills ten points each without sleeping and when you come to sleep, sleep twice and add the extra point to luck to effectively double the speed at which your luck attribute raises.

It's based on the idea that the best way to play is to create a focused, 'pure' character.

Here's more info on it (my post to the bethsoft.com forum).

It also includes some of my basic reasoning for the method

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=766542&st=0#

Hope you find it interesting.

--[[User:Hatesink|Hatesink]] 13:50, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

== A Diary For Console Users ==

I'm going start a round of Oblivion with some focus on Efficient Leveling, but since I'm playing on an Xbox, the [http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3629 skill diary mod] linked in the main article isn't really useful to me for tracking the stats. I Googled around for a sample spreadsheet I could use, and found a pretty good one (accompanied by a well-written explanation) [http://www.reardo.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26 here]. Any thoughts on how/if to link to this thread in the main article? [[User:Roddie|Roddie]] 00:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

==Own personal character maps==

Hi, would anyone be interested in posting their own personal efficient leveling method. So from level 1 to whichever level it took you to. Start for example with which race, birth sign, then what skills you raised at each level and by how much exactly. If you kept a record of it then it will be easy for you to copy down! I think this will be better for me to learn from because I'm having trouble with all this 5/5/5/ 5/5/1 stuff. Personally I like Breton's the best. Anything else I'd like to just copy for easiness sake. A few notes. I don't care about Personality so much, there is a simple spell which can increase your Mercantile by 100 for 1 second + Charm 100 on target for 1 second which works every time. Also I use the duplicate items glitch (scrolls method, PS3) so money is no problem, I can spend whatever I need on trainers or whatever. I'm not even sure if trainers count towards the whole 5/5/5 thing. Anyway if you do this thank you so much. It will increase my enjoyment of the game a lot. I can't give anything in return but gratitude. PS. I know the glitch is a cheat but it's my game which I paid for with my hard earned money and I have every right to cheat if I want to. It helps me enjoy the game better. {{Unsigned|90.197.201.207|18 June 2009}}

:I'm sorry, but the wiki is not a good place to share personal experiences. I'd recommend the [http://forums.uesp.net/ forums] instead. --[[User:Timenn|Timenn]] < [[User_talk:Timenn|talk]] > 11:04, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

== Question about "overcoming the leveling problem (example 2) ==

This section confused me a lot. I didn't really understand what the problem with example 2 was. Should the character who had nine intelligence points level his alchemy/conjuration (minor skills) at the 10th point and then raise a major skill? I'd like someone to explain this and maybe reword the section to make it a bit more simple or explanatory :) --[[User:Blue deep|Blue deep]] 08:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

== Overcoming the Leveling Problem ==

<nowiki>I've changed the order of the sum below example one so that the figures are in the same order as the skills listed- just to make it clearer. I hope this is ok.</nowiki> -[[User:Snorkel.maiden|Snorkel.maiden]] 13:32, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

== Maximum possible level? ==

I never used any special "training" of yours, nor I did some special planning. I reached level 51, and I have still to raise something (I think maximum level I will ever have will be 53). I was asking myself, what's the highest level one can become? --[[Special:Contributions/195.60.143.253|195.60.143.253]] 20:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

== Help ==

I first played Oblivion afew years ago, leveling up as much as possible without thinking about getting 5/5/5 or 5/5/1, and towards the end the game was very difficult. However I did enjoy the game enough to want to play through it again, this time trying to create a stronger character. What i'm looking for is basically a battlemage, but a bit different. A character with reasonable endurance (higher health, block), reasonable strength (blade, and able to carry more stuff), but mostly I enjoy the spells. I'm leaning towards higher willpower first, to regenerate magika faster, although I also need
intelligence to have a large enough magika pool to cast the more expensive spells.
What ive got so far is a Breton, Lady birthsign, willpower and endurance as favoured attributes, and my major skills are blade, block, mysticism, alteration, destruction, restoration, and mercantile. I'm having trouble however getting the 5/5/5. I keep ending up with 5/3/3 no matter how many skill increases I get and i don't understand why. What would be ideal for me is 5 on intelligence, 5 on willpower and 5 on endurance for one level-up. And the next level up the same but instead of 5 on endurance, 5 on strength. And with each level-up change between strength and endurance. That way I can concentrate on magic use more, but still have decent strength and endurance. Could anyone please give me any advice on how it would be best to do this?

== My Bad/Good solution? ==

Create an Orc or Nord with all major skills as magic (including alchemy) And since you level up once every 10 skill level ups, simpily divide those evenly such as 3 blade, 3 block and 3, blunt and the last one doesnt really matter. If you do not wish to become an orc/nord just pick whatever skills your desired race would faulter in. i.e. Argonain comabt skills or an Orc with stealth/magic skills. Anyone really get what im saying? Im not good with writing or anything so it may be kind of un clear

Oblivion talk:Confront the King

2010-09-26T05:02:54Z

Gorilladin: /* Untargetable Manimarco */

{{Archive Table
|Archive 1||April 2006 to September 2009
}}

== The Arch-Mage's robes are not unique. ==

Traven has the robes as well. If you loot the robes from Traven, you'll have 2 of them after the quest. The hood, however, is unique. [[Special:Contributions/67.193.109.219|67.193.109.219]] 15:55, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:It is unique to the ''Arch-Mage''. There are only two copies, and if you leave them on the body, they will be disabled.--[[User:Arch-Mage Matt|Arch-Mage Matt]] 17:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
::Actually, I've removed the whole note. First of all, as long as there are two items with the same name then those items are not unique. The hood ''may'' be unique (which I really doubt because, unless it had an enchantment, it is exactly the same to the [[Shivering:Heretic|Heretic]]'s hood). Anyway, the main reason I removed it was because it isn't really something beneficial as part of being the Arch-Mage. --[[User:S'drassa|S'drassa]] •[[User_Talk:S'drassa|T2M]] 23:05, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Concerning: Manimarco and the Staff of Worms ==

I moved the following two comments from the article until someone can prove either of them to be true. They're beneficial to the quest but I'm not sure whether or not they were just one persons experience or an actual bug.

Comment One:
*"If you escape echo cave and return at a later date, Manimarco is most likely to be gone if you finish the rest of the quest."

<s>Comment Two:
*"The Staff of Worms cannot be used to resurrect Manimarco"</s>

[[User:Jaden|Jaden]] 09:50, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:After another read of them, I don't think the second comment is beneficial to this quest, but it is to the Staff of Worms article. Any response to the first comment?

== Untargetable Manimarco ==

Someone posted this on Manimarco's discution and i have the same problem:

"Hi,

While fighting against Mannimarco, I came across a strange bug: neither my physical nor magical attacks had any effect on him. They would just go right through his body, as if he were a ghost. Luckily I was equipped with the Escucheon of Chorrol and the Mundane Ring, meaning that both his physical and magical attacks were partially reflected. So he basically killed himself attacking me. But had I not had this items on me, I don't see how I could have defeated him."

But unlike this other player i dont have those items, so if it cant be hit by spells, weapons or summons, how can he be killed!?
(by Aria Lliane) {{unsigned|193.137.97.168|8 March 2010}}

:I have had the same bug, and the only way around it seemed to be to revert to an older save. Another strange thing is that when I defeated Mannimarco with the bug using a Breton & Mundane ring the bone spikes around the area didn't descend after the fight, they stayed where they were. Again this problem was solved by reverting to an older save. --- [[User:Masterlocksmith|Masterlocksmith]] 16:38, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

I didnt got the bones down either, and no matter how many times i loaded a previous save always had the same bug. The only way i thought to be able to kill him was to lure him into water and 'drown' him. And guess what, it worked :D At the begining he kept going up for breading, but i lured him into the tunel and as he started trying to swim outside i blocked the way, i had the breath underwater spell, im a mage ;). I got the quest done.(Aria Lliane)

OMFG tahnk you for explaining this bug and how to get around it!!! I was so worried I'd have to start another Char. !!