UESPWiki - User Contributions [en]

User talk:Eshe

2015-05-15T11:38:19Z

Eshe: Redirected page to User:Eshe

#REDIRECT[[User:Eshe]]

User:Eshe

2015-05-15T11:37:58Z

Eshe: Replaced content with "{{Notice|align=center|border-width=2px|border=#3D93AD|bgcolor=#ffffff|message='''This user is retired.'''}}"

{{Notice|align=center|border-width=2px|border=#3D93AD|bgcolor=#ffffff|message='''This user is retired.'''}}

User:Eshe

2014-08-11T20:52:26Z

Eshe: notice

{{Notice|message=I'm taking a leave of absence for health reasons and have no idea when I'll be able to return. Take care, all. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 20:52, 11 August 2014 (GMT)}}

<div style="height: 30px; margin: 0; padding: 0; position: absolute; right: 0px; top: -34px; z-index: 50; font-size:84%; color: #7d7d7d; width:450px; margin-top:10px; text-align:right;">[[User:Eshe/Tabs|tabs]] | [[User:Eshe/Style|style]] | [[User:Eshe/Talk Header|talk header]] | [[User talk:Eshe/Editnotice|edit notice]] | [[User:Eshe/Sandbox Notice|sandbox notice]] | [[User:Eshe/monobook.js|monobook.js]] | [[User:Eshe/common.css|common.css]] | [[User:Eshe/RfA|rfa]]</div>
__NOTOC__
{{/Tabs}}
⇣'''ABOUT'''

Hiya folks! I joined UESPWiki in June 2007 and have been unable to really kick the habit ever since ;). I've recently been on a really long and unplanned hiatus due to a lot of real-life changes, the major result of which is that I now live in Annapolis, Maryland, which is super lovely. My company was nice enough to allow me to work from home, and I get a lot of down time, so I'm really excited to be able to come back here and finish up some projects I had in the works. If I'm not here, you can likely find me logged onto Guild Wars 2 (not ESO, because I'm a one-MMO kind of girl). Drop me a line if you'd like to message me in-game! Things are settling down a bit but there's still a fair bit of chaos from the move, so as always, feel free to email me if I'm not responding on my talk page!

⇣'''AVAILABILITY'''

Since I'm just now starting to work UESPWiki back into my schedule, I'm not really sure when my regular times are going to be, and I haven't had a chance to wander back into [[UESPWIki:IRC|#uespwiki]] yet. I'll update this when I get a better idea of how things are going. I try to answer my talk page messages as quickly as possible, but you can always [[Special:EmailUser/Eshe|email me]] if you need to.

⇣'''PROJECTS'''

I'm currently looking to finish up some bigger projects that I started a while ago (oof!). After that, I hope to return to adopting pages to do some fairly major rewrites, mostly just to polish up some pages with incomplete or disorganized information that makes me twitch. I also try to grab some images here and there as I'm running around Skyrim. Other than that, I keep a close eye on the [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes]] page and focus on cleanup and maintenance-type tasks as needed, usually deletions, categorizing, and trying to keep [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&days=30&limit=5000&hidepatrolled=1 old unpatrolled edits] from vanishing into the abyss.

Some of my more recent projects include:
{|class=hiddentable
|
⇢ [[OB:Traps]] 
⇢ [[SI:Traps]] 
⇢ [[SR:Traps]] 
⇢ [[SR:Puzzles]] 
⇢ [[DB:Cultist]] 
⇢ [[DB:Reaver]]
|  
|style="vertical-align:top;"|
⇢ [[SR:Vampirism]] 
⇢ [[SR:Vampire Lord]] 
⇢ [[SR:Pack Member]] 
⇢ [[SR:Dremora]] 
⇢ [[SR:Werewolf]] 
⇢ [[SR:Lycanthropy]]
|  
|style="vertical-align:top;"|
⇢ [[SR:Necromancer]] 
⇢ [[SR:Conjurer]] 
⇢ [[SR:Fire Mage]] 
⇢ [[SR:Ice Mage]] 
⇢ [[SR:Storm Mage]] 
⇢ [[SR:Vampire]]
|  
|style="vertical-align:top;"|
⇢ [[SR:Bandit]] 
⇢ [[SR:Vigil of Stendarr]] 
⇢ [[SR:Falmer]] 
⇢ [[SR:Dragon]] [[File:Featured star.png|18px]] 
⇢ [[SR:Forsworn]] [[File:Featured star.png|18px]]
|}


Head to my [[User talk:Eshe|talk page]] if you have questions about any edits, and I'll do my best to answer! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]'''

⇣'''SANDBOXES'''

[[User:Eshe/Sandbox|one]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/2|two]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/3|three]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/4|four]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/5|five]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/6|six]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/7|seven]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/8|eight]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/9|nine]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/10|ten]] |
[[User:Eshe/Template|template]]
{{/Style}}
<div style="float:right">
{| cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=1
|{{User Admin|text=This user is an '''[[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrator]]''' on the wiki.}}
|-
|{{User Mentor|text=This user is a '''[[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentor]]'''. Ask for help! She doesn't bite.}}
|-
|{{User WikiGnome|#6CA86A|#B5D6B4}}
|-
|{{Userbox|border-color=#053A83|border-s=1|id-c=#053A83|info-background=#99CCFF|id=<nowiki>{{{1}}}</nowiki>|info=This user can generally hack her way through a template thicket.|info-c=#fff|id-s=9}}
|-
|{{User Skyrim|text=This user knows a thing or two about '''[[SR:Skyrim|Skyrim]]'''.}}
|-
|{{User Oblivion|text=This user used to know way too much about '''[[OB:Oblivion|Oblivion]]'''.}}
|-
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2007|month=6|day=26}}
|-
|{{user current age|month=1|day=7|year=1987|#5DBAA0|#9BE8D2}}
|-
|{{User American|#99CCFF|#fff}}
|-
|{{User LGBT}}
|-
|{{Ribbon|OPRP|width=120px}}{{Ribbon|OBNPCRP|width=120px}}
|-
|{{Ribbon|ICP|width=120px}}{{Ribbon|MRP|width=120px}}
|}

|}</div>
|}

User talk:81.103.32.145

2014-08-08T19:28:15Z

Eshe: section protect

<protect>
== Warning ==

{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense or obscenities to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this IP address will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. [[User:Quill-Tail|—<({QT]][[User talk:Quill-Tail|>>]] 14:29, 8 August 2014 (GMT)}}

== Blocked ==

{{Blocked|1=This IP address has been '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing UESPWiki for repeatedly [[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalizing]] the site, despite being warned to stop. If you wish to [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks|appeal the block]], you may make your request on your talk page, which you can still edit even while being blocked. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 19:16, 8 August 2014 (GMT)}}
</protect>

User talk:81.103.32.145

2014-08-08T19:16:07Z

Eshe: /* Blocked */ new section

== Warning ==

{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense or obscenities to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this IP address will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. [[User:Quill-Tail|—<({QT]][[User talk:Quill-Tail|>>]] 14:29, 8 August 2014 (GMT)}}

== Blocked ==

{{Blocked|1=This IP address has been '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing UESPWiki for repeatedly [[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalizing]] the site, despite being warned to stop. If you wish to [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks|appeal the block]], you may make your request on your talk page, which you can still edit even while being blocked. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 19:16, 8 August 2014 (GMT)}}

User:Agide

2014-08-08T14:57:52Z

Eshe: Undo revision 1378079 by 66.249.93.25 (talk): If this is Agide, please log in to edit your user page

<div style=" width:1080px;" >
<div style="float:left; width:650px;" >
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7093/6875174824_cb8b218487_z.jpg
</div>
<div style="float:left; width:430px;">
Picture from The Rift: Here you can see Agide taking a bath in a mineral spring near [[Skyrim:Steamcrag Camp|Steamcrag Camp]].

<table class="wikitable" align="right" width="33%" style="margin-right:0;margin-top:0;margin-left:1em;">
<tr>
<th colspan="4" style="color:#ffffff; background-color:#993365">Agide (RefID: Unknow)</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Home</th>
<td colspan="3" nowrap>  [[Skyrim:Alchemist's Shack|Alchemist's Shack (The Rift)]], [[Skyrim:Vlindrel Hall|Vlindrel Hall (The Reach)]].  </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Race</th>
<td>[[Skyrim:Breton|Breton]]</td>
<th>Gender</th>
<td>Male</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Level</th>
<td>42</td>
<th>Class</th>
<td>Merchant & Mercenary</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th colspan="4" style="color:#000000; background-color:#00D8D8">Other Information</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Skills</th>
<td colspan="3">[[Skyrim:Light Armor|Lt.Armor]], [[Skyrim:Destruction|Destruction]], [[Skyrim:Lockpicking|Lockpicking]],
[[Skyrim:One-handed|One-handed]], [[Skyrim:Sneak|Sneak]] </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Perks</th>
<td colspan="3">[[Skyrim:Extra_Pockets#Extra_Pockets|Extra Pockets]], [[Skyrim:Assassin%27s_Blade#Assassin.27s_Blade|Assassin's Blade]], [[Skyrim:Dual_Savagery#Dual_Savagery|Dual Savagery]]</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Pref.Weapon</th>
<td >Dagger</td>
<th>Pref.Spell</th>
<td >Bound Sword w\Soul Stealer</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Moral.</th>
<td colspan="3">Nobody is perfect</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th style="white-space:nowrap;">Faction(s)</th>
<td colspan="3" style="text-align:left;">[[Skyrim:Thane of the Reach|Thane of the Reach]], [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild|Thieves Guild]]</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th colspan="4" style="color:#ffffff; background-color:#0000AE"> Stormcloaks or Imperial Legion ? </th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" align=center> I really can't decide </td>
</tr>
<tr>

</table>

</div>

</div>

{|class="hiddentable compress"
!

|-
|{{User Skyrim}}
|{{Userbox|#CCCCFF|#EEEEFF|[[Image:SR-npc-Whiterun Guard.jpg‎|45x45px]]|This user used to be an adventurer like you, then he took an arrow in the knee.}}
|{{User Race|Breton|This user is undecided about Skyrim Civil War so is a [[Skyrim:Breton|Breton]]|bg-color=#009900|text-color=#fff}}
|{{Userbox|#ffffff|#EEEEFF|[[Image:SR-icon-shadowmark-Guild.png‎|45x45px]]|This user is a member of the Thieves Guild. (just for the good company)}}
|-
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2012|month=3|day=3}}
|{{User PC}}
|{{Userbox|#CCCCFF|#EEEEFF|[[File:User-userbox-IRC.jpg‎|45x45px]]|This user is a code stealer (yes, your code).}}
|{{Userbox|#CCCCFF|#EEEEFF|[[Image:SR-book-Dbhand.png‎|45x45px]]|This user is a member of the Dark Brotherhood. (because of the bad company, you know... )}}

|-
|{{User EditsPerDay|year=2012|month=3|day=3}}
|{{User Oblivion}}
|{{User ShiveringIsles}}
|{{User Race|Imperial|This user was a proud [[Oblivion:Imperial|Imperial]] during the Oblivion Crisis |bg-color=#fcc|text-color=#000000}}
|-
|{{Userbox|#CCCCFF|#C1E0DA|[[Image:OB-item-Azura's Star.jpg‎|45x45px]]|This user hates the Daedric Lords, but he likes their gifts. }}
|{{Userbox|#ffffff|#9C8050|[[Image:A letter.png‎|45x45px]]|   [[User_talk:Agide|Say 'Hi' in my talk page!]] }}
|{{Userbox|#CCCCFF|#EEEEFF|[[Image:SR-book-Trollbook.png|45x45px]]|   [[Special:Contributions/Agide|See my (few) contributions!]] }}
|
|}

<hr style="display:block; clear:left;visibility:hidden;height:0;border-width:0;margin:0;padding:0;">

==In Life==
{|class="hiddentable compress"
!
|-
|{{User current age|day=8|month=10|year=1980}}
|{{User Male}}
|{{User Italian|red|green|white|text=<div align=center>Questo utente è Italiano This user eats pizza+spaghetti</div>}}
|}
<div style=" width:1080px;" >
<div style="float:left; width:300px;" >
<table class="wikitable" >
<tr>
<th colspan="4" style="color:#ffffff; background-color:#993365">Edoardo (real name)</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Home</th>
<td nowrap>  {{nowrap|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padua Padua]}}.  </td>
<th>Nationality</th>
<td>Italian</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Job</th>
<td>Intranet developer</td>
<th>Level</th>
<td>1</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Faction</th>
<td colspan=3>Too-Old-To-Play</td>
</tr>
</table>

</div>

<div style="float:left; width:700px; font-weight:700; padding:9px;" >

With poor english and a great gratitude to UESP, I decided to contribute adding images to the pages that have been marked as "needing an image".

I'm an absolute beginner in this wiki, so I will appreciate any suggestion or alert.

If I can contribute in other ways, fitting with my limits, just tell me.
</div>

</div>

Online:Oblivion's Foe

2014-08-08T13:04:31Z

Eshe: Fix trail

{{Trail|Sets}}
'''Spectre's Eye''' is a special [[Online:Sets|item set]] providing special bonuses to [[Online:Armor|armor]] and [[Online:Weapons|weapons]] and available to players pursuing crafting professions in [[Online:Online|Elder Scrolls Online]]: [[Online:Blacksmithing|blacksmithing]], [[Online:Clothing|clothing]] and/or [[Online:Woodworking|woodworking]]. The special [[#Crafting Sites|crafting site]] dedicated to creation of this set is available in [[Online:Coldharbour|Coldharbour]] - completion of the main quest line is not required, as both Coldharbor crafting sites can be accessed as soon as you have access to the main area of Coldharbor itself.

To craft an item for this set, a [[Online:Crafting|crafter]] must first complete research on '''all eight traits''' for this particular item at a corresponding crafting station.

===Bonuses===

* 2 Items: Adds 0-10 (item level dependent) Health Recovery
* 3 Items: Adds 0-10 (item level dependent) Stamina Recovery
* 4 Items: Adds 0-10 (item level dependent) Magicka Recovery
* 5 Items: Recover two soul gems when resurrecting a fallen ally. 60 minute cooldown

===Crafting Sites===

There is only one crafting site for this item set, regardless of [[Online:Alliances|Alliance]]:
* [[Online:Font of Schemes|Font of Schemes]] in [[Online:Coldharbour|Coldharbour]].

User talk:Azroth

2014-08-08T13:03:57Z

Eshe: /* Welcome! */ new section

== Welcome! ==

Hello Azroth! Welcome to UESPWiki! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

* '''[[UESPWiki:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]''': UESPWiki standards and expectations
* '''[[Help:Contents|Help Contents]]''': a list of in-depth Help pages
* '''[[Help:Quick Editing Guide|Quick Editing Guide]]''': a quick guide to wiki markup
* '''[[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]]''': how you can help
* '''[[Help:Images|Uploading Images]]''': Guidelines on image standardization

If you would like to spice up your [[Special:Mypage|userpage]], [[UESPWiki:Userboxes|click here]] for a list of userboxes you can use, including a guide to making your own.

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave [[Help:Edit Summary|edit summaries]] to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Also, the "[[Help:Show Preview|show preview]]" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|patrollers]] really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]] or discuss the games in the [[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]]. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]]. Have fun! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 13:03, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard

2014-08-08T03:00:00Z

Eshe: /* Proposed Deletions */ reply

[[Category:Message Boards|{{PAGENAME}}]] __NEWSECTIONLINK__<div style="float:right">{{Scrolling Archive Table|class=collapsible collapsed|height=225px|width=300px
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 1|Archive 1|February 2005 – June 2006
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 2|Archive 2|June 2006 – August 2006
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 3|Archive 3|September 2006 – June 2007
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 4|Archive 4|June 2007 – July 2007
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 5|Archive 5|August 2007 – October 2007
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 6|Archive 6|October 2007 – November 2007
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 7|Archive 7|December 2007 – January 2008
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 8|Archive 8|January 2008 – February 2008
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 9|Archive 9|February 2008 – August 2008
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 10|Archive 10|September 2008 – October 2008
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 11|Archive 11|November 2008 – December 2008
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 12|Archive 12|December 2008 – March 2009
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 13|Archive 13|April 2009 – December 2009
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 14|Archive 14|January 2010 – May 2010
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 15|Archive 15|June 2010
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 16|Archive 16|June 2010 – October 2010
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 17|Archive 17|November 2010 – January 2011
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 18|Archive 18|February 2011 – April 2011
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 19|Archive 19|May 2011
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 20|Archive 20|June 2011 – August 2011
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 21|Archive 21|September 2011 – October 2011
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 22|Archive 22|November 2011 – December 2011
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 23|Archive 23|December 2011 – February 2012
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 24|Archive 24|February 2012 – March 2012
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 25|Archive 25|April 2012
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 26|Archive 26|May 2012 – June 2012
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 27|Archive 27|July 2012 - August 2012
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 28|Archive 28|August 2012 - October 2012
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 29|Archive 29|October 2012 - December 2012
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 30|Archive 30|January 2013 - March 2013
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 31|Archive 31|March 2013 - June 2013
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 32|Archive 32|July 2013 - November 2013
|UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 33|Archive 33|December 2013 - February 2014
}}{{TOCright|limit=3}}</div>
The '''administrator noticeboard''' is where we discuss and coordinate administrative tasks on the wiki. Although this page is intended for [[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrators]], all users are encouraged to participate in discussions.

'''Before starting a discussion here,''' please review the list of other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.
{{Example Table|
Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:
{{Bullet Link|[[:Category:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]|A category listing of policies and guidelines, which each have individual pages; their talk pages are the best place to discuss these policies (see [[#Active Discussions|Active Discussions]] for links to active policy discussions).}}
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator_Noticeboard/Vandalism|Vandalism]]| Discussions regarding vandalism and spam.}}
{{Bullet Link|Community Portal|The main discussion forum used for community-wide discussions about UESP's operations, policies, design, and improvement.}}
{{Bullet Link|Reference Desk|This is the best place for questions about how to play Elder Scrolls games.}}
{{Bullet Link|Community Portal/Templates|Technical issues regarding templates and related issues can be discussed on this page.}}
Specific requests can be made on these pages:
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Bot Requests|Bot Requests]]|This page can be used to request that one of the wiki's bots take on a task.}}
{{Bullet Link|Image Requests|You can request specific images for articles here.}}
{{Bullet Link|Creation Kit Information Requests|You can request specific Creation Kit information for articles here.}}
{{Bullet Link|New Page Requests|You can request a new page here if you were prevented from creating the page yourself.}}
{{Bullet Link|Purge Requests|If you are having problems viewing an article on UESP, the page may need to be purged. New purge requests can be made here.}}
In addition, past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard can be found at:
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archives#Chronological_Archives|AN Archives]]|Lists all of the past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard, including major discussions and chronological archives.}}
{{Bullet Link|[[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archives#Past_Administrative_Requests|Past Administrative Requests]]|A list of all previous requests for administrator and other administrative requests.}}
}}

== New Category Request: Skyrim-Items-Permanent Items ==

Maybe items described on [[Skyrim:Permanent_And_Persistent_Items]] should have their own category? Because list is becoming clumsy. But I do not know what is the procedure for creating one. [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 15:56, 4 March 2014 (GMT)
:I think the list on the page works better, at least for now. Not every item in that list has its own page, so not all of them could be categorised properly. Thus the page is a necessity. [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 20:13, 4 March 2014 (GMT)
::Then I'll just continue checking items and adding them there for now... [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 07:03, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

== Abuse Filter Spammers ==

* {{Userlinks|37.236.167.250}}
* {{Userlinks|58.20.127.26}}
* {{Userlinks|61.93.246.49}}
* {{Userlinks|77.89.242.154}}
* {{Userlinks|89.200.252.149}}
* {{Userlinks|91.200.13.18}}
* {{Userlinks|91.200.13.20}}
* {{Userlinks|91.200.13.87}}
* {{Userlinks|91.200.14.55}}
* {{Userlinks|114.80.226.71}}
* {{Userlinks|114.80.226.71}}
* {{Userlinks|116.213.51.221}}
* {{Userlinks|116.228.55.217}}
* {{Userlinks|173.44.37.234}}
* {{Userlinks|180.166.69.1}}
* {{Userlinks|202.175.83.61}}
* {{Userlinks|212.107.116.234}}
* {{Userlinks|219.93.183.102}}
* {{Userlinks|219.93.183.103}}

* {{Userlinks|AlexanderkfjgmdrjmdRay}}
* {{Userlinks|BettyxntppytgbuBardos}}
* {{Userlinks|CareyghhwbnioekEsteb}}
* {{Userlinks|LylewxkrmncgqvKaczmarek}}
* {{Userlinks|TobyrbivwtwxsrKincheloe}}

It's been a while since the [[Special:AbuseLog]] got cleared out of its most prolific spammers, so here's a list. These are the most prolific but include a couple that managed to beat the filter and named accounts. Some pages are repeatedly attempted to be spammed so it may be worthwhile protecting those [[Special:ProtectedTitles|page names from creation]]. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 16:35, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

:I'll get to work on blocking these, then I'll take a look at what pages need protecting. Out of curiosity, how did you come up with this list? I've just pulled a similar list from the database, and it highlights a couple where I think range blocks will be a good choice, but I'll have to check if there are legitimate edits from those IPs first. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:32, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

::Point and click. Click an ip link, click abuse log, look at list. Generally these ones would have hundreds of logs, though many are caught by more than one filter. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:38, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

:::That works. I've done all the ones above, except for those that may need range blocking. I've got about twenty more individual ones that I've identified from the database, so I'll do those, then remind myself how to do range blocks and do those as well. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:53, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

::::Okay, those are all done. Between the specific IPs and the {{Pl|Special:BlockList|range blocks|3=wpTarget=&wpOptions%5B%5D=userblocks&wpOptions%5B%5D=addressblocks&limit=50}}, that's blocked the top 100 IP addresses coming from the AbuseFilter, along with any named users that had 10 or more attempted unwanted edits. Just to cover what all I did, for the record....

::::As a safety measure, all IPs (both single and range) were checked against the CheckUser logs in the database to confirm that there were no legitimate edits from those IPs/ranges. Similarly, I checked the contribution history of named users before blocking them so I didn't accidentally block any users (like [[Special:Contributions/Din|Din]]) who might have triggered the abuse filter while attempting legitimate edits.

::::Finally, range blocks were kept as small as reasonably possible (/24) with the one exception being a highly prolific set of IPs from China that was responsible for nearly 5000 abuse filter hits in the last three months alone. I also limited the range blocks to only a year, instead of indefinite. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:49, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

:::::Oh, I almost forgot about the second part. Pages with over 200 attempted abusive edits in the last three months are now semi-protected as well. Only one was actually a red link. A few I didn't protect, like the AN and a couple of talk pages, because there's good reason to assume a non-autoconfirmed user might want to post to those pages. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:04, 6 March 2014 (GMT)

== Inappropriate ads ==

When I go to the wiki or forums on my android phone, I eventually get a pop up ad telling me my phone has been infected with a virus. It's very disconcerting and needs to stop. I believe it's "nexusads" or something like that. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 01:45, 17 March 2014 (GMT)

:I'll take a look but without more information its going to be impossible to find the offending ad or network. Google AdSense takes care of all that behind the scenes so unless I have an exact URL or company name I can't do much. Especially difficult on mobile but you can try the "report ad" link if it works for you. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 21:19, 17 March 2014 (GMT)

::It's masquerading as a pop-up alert. Sorry, I've been trying to get it to pop up again to get an exact URL since I posted this, but it's a bit like the cartoon dancing frog in a box. I'll update when I can. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 04:28, 18 March 2014 (GMT)

:::The address I keep getting when I was checking this was ib.adnxs.com -- I got that specific address each time I loaded a page in a mobile browser without using the mobile version. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 23:34, 30 March 2014 (GMT)

::::A few ads came up matching this address which I blocked but let me know if anyone sees it again. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 00:49, 31 March 2014 (GMT)

== Speedy Deleting Redirects ==

It seems that either I'm confused or a lot of other people are, so I'd like to clarify and perhaps change our policy in regards to redirects. According to my understanding of our [[Project:Deletion Policy|Deletion Policy]], redirects should only be speedy deleted if they're the result of typos, what they link to doesn't exist, they're in Main space and recently created, or they're in File space. At least two different editors that I can think of, probably more, have recently nominated redirects for speedy deletion (most of them due to page moves, but not all) that don't qualify according to the rules listed.

Now, having said that, I think they should. The links were all taken care of, they show no external links, and the redirect left behind serves no real purpose other than the remote possibility that someone might try to access the page by its old name. To me, a redirect in this state is a trivial deletion ''unless'' the name of the page is so common that it can be reasonably expected that someone might try to enter that name in the search box ''and'' the new name is dissimilar enough to the old one that it wouldn't pop up in the inline search results. Right now, it's only considered to be trivial if it's in File space and we rename it according to specific rules, while other spaces are excluded altogether. Is there a reason we can't treat redirects much the same as general maintenance and simply speedy delete them as long as there's no reason to believe they should be kept? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:03, 17 March 2014 (GMT)
:I'm probably one of those editors who speedied a non-file redirect. I support this completely. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 20:38, 17 March 2014 (GMT)
::While I was hoping for a clearer consensus, in the absence of any objections, I'll update our policy on redirects sometime tomorrow and put it into effect for the existing redirects. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 03:41, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
:::And done. I kept the criteria wording very open to allow administrators to decide on a case-by-case basis. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:20, 27 March 2014 (GMT)

== ESO for Admins and Editors ==

ESO's release is quickly approaching! Like past games I'm offering to purchase the game for admins and senior editors, i.e., basically anyone who is currently active with the wiki. It looks like I can only purchase the physical edition for other people so you'd prefer the digital editor, or have already bought the game, we can work out something to reimburse you the game's value. Once Zenimax Online reveals their monthly payment options I'll probably also offer to buy some monthly passes for people. If you'd like to be considered for this just [mailto:dave@uesp.net e-mail me] and we'll sort out the details. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 13:01, 18 March 2014 (GMT)

== Protection for [[Lore:Imperial Names]] ==

Twice within a few hours this page has been hit by bots. Can we just nip this at the bud right now and have an admin lock down the page for a brief while? -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 05:08, 22 March 2014 (GMT)

:AKB removed the spam revisions and blocked the two IPs, but since the page hasn't been hit again, I don't think there's a need to protect right now. There also haven't been any other edits by anything in that IP range, either. If it happens again, though, re-post and we'll either range block the address or protect the page. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:23, 22 March 2014 (GMT)

== TESO Temporary Policy Changes ==

With no sign of this discussion coming from those who have a better idea than me what needs done and when, I am here to start it.

;(1) Limit Page Creation.
* This is now policy so all that needs decided is when to start. I would hesitantly suggest that if additions keep up their pace then Lore, Main, and Skyrim, should be locked ahead of time.
* Time period: Soonish - June 4th

;(2) Ease Patrolling Guidelines.
* As with any new release information will be hard to verify immediately. Spelling and grammar will ''not'' be a priority, so therefore if its not obvious or clear vandalism, please patrol and move on. Be careful to check anything that may have been already added by a bot (e.g. Summary Table Information) as that should be correct already.
* Time period: April 4th - June 4th.

;(3) Temporary Admins.
* I just don't know if there is a need, so input is needed from those around for Skyrim. There are 4 active admins, AKB, Dwarfmp, Legoless, and Robin. There was about the same amount for Skyrim yet five were promoted. Below is a list of some patrollers listed by known ESO participation and activity (excuse any mistakes):
** [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]]: Active, and getting ESO
** [[User:Jak Atackka|Jak Atackka]]: Not too active, and but getting ESO afaik and should be back
** [[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]]: Active, knows tech stuff, not sure on ESO
** [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]]: Active, and getting ESO afaik
** [[User:The Silencer|The Silencer]]: Active, and getting ESO for PS4 in June/July
** [[User:Kiz|Kiz]]: Active
** [[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]]: Active
** [[User:Velyanthe|Velyanthe]]: Active
** [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]]: Active

* The four others I left off (with no offense intended) are <s>Damon (not too active, not getting ESO afaik)</s> (Don't want the position, thanks though. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]]) , Holomay (not very active), Hargrimm (very recent promotion to patroller), Nocte Canticum (same as Hargrimm).
* These are not nominations just a suggestion.

So, have fun debating. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 00:40, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:Unfortunately, I won't be getting ESO. Partially because I'm too busy, and partially because I want to hold out until it's free to play ($15 a month? Get real). I'm fine as a patroller; I don't think I have the requisite tech savvy for admin duties. Everyone else on the list are trustworthy contributors who I'm sure would be very fine temp admins. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 00:54, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:{{ec}}I approve of all points, Silencer made, and in regards to administrators, I want to add this:

:I am in fact active, and I will be through the release and onward, and while I won't have it for the first few months or so, I plan to eventually get ESO. That said, I am not interested in adminship, temporarily or otherwise. I'd do it if I had to, and I wouldn't mind, but under normal circumstances (these aren't necessarily 'normal', admittedly), I'd not vote for myself. I can perform the functions of an admin, but there's more to just pushing buttons, and adminship wouldn't necessarily be needed to perform my current functions

:If I ''had'' to select some (I am of the opinion that 2 are needed at best with the current number we have), I'd give my vote to Jeancey and Alfwyn. Jeancey has a good idea of what's going on, is working heard on ESO's work, and he'd be a good person to turn users to who need help with the namespace work and others, and despite being here a year, is one of the top five editors all time (excluding bots). Alfwyn is effectively an admin having direct server access, so he's already trusted with more work than an admin typically has, and naturally, I'd support his adminship. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 01:01, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

::I wasn't nominating anyone cause thats ''all'' our active patrollers, and that wouldn't be all that wise. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:05, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:::I never suggested anyone was in a nomination. I said ''if'' we nominated someone, I like those two for those reasons... And, that I didn't want to be on any lists. :) -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 01:08, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

::::Minor correction - we have at least 6 active admins, counting myself and [[User:Daveh|Daveh]]. Yeah, I was out of it for a year, mostly because I was under NDA on the beta and didn't want to risk conflict of interest, but I'm back for the foreseeable future. Though being on the job market may cause some interruptions in my contribution. Also - why do you want to lock Skyrim and not Online? Or is that an error? — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 01:40, 23 March 2014 (GMT)
:::::I believe the idea is to lock the most recent game's namespace so people don't accidentally create Online pages in that namespace, though I think there is less of an issue with ESO than there would be with a new single player game. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 01:49, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}To be up front with this, I had thought most of this was assumed to be happening. The page lock has been performed more than once, its standard practice now. As for the lowering of patrolling standards, that was also expected I had thought. Good and perfectly correct is less important than done as quickly as possible.

As for the temporary admins, which is the only real point of contention here, I am going to just say what we administrators had already considered (which we were already doing). For starters, all ESO admins will lose the rights once its over, even if they are just going to ask for them back afterwords. As for candidates, comments suggest we are most comfortable with Jeancey getting it, as well as Alfwyn and Jak (I would ask for Jak to be more active, however). As Alfwyn and Jak can most likely just make themselves admins anyway, there is little reason to not just give them the rights on a more official basis. As for Jeancey, he is a very talented and dedicated editor, and has worked impressively hard towards helping with ESO. It's worth remembering we have a much stronger administrative team right now, so I don't think we need as many hands for the moment. If it becomes too much of a burden, we can put some more forward in a hurry, but too few is better than too many right now. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 01:54, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:Did we lock Oblivion when Skyrim came out? I don't seem to recall anyone being too confused by that, they're clearly not the same game. Usually what happens is people create pages in Main that should be in the new game's namespace. That's the only one that really needs a creation lock I think. Also, it's likely that by the time the early-release period is over, most of the important pages will have been created already. (I assume that the item redirect pages will be mostly done by bots. Mainly it's things like places and NPCs that people are likely to create.) As for Admins, I agree with the 3 AKB listed. The others may be good as well, though I haven't been around lately to see how active they are. (I don't know Forfeit at all, he/she must be relatively new?) I don't mind having a few extra hands around, but there honestly haven't been ''that'' many Admin-only jobs that have needed doing lately. (Most of the deletions I've done lately have been due to my own mistakes, and I haven't seen much call for blocking lately, so the spam filters seem to be doing their job. Also, we have people with Blocker status that aren't Admins, so maybe we should do more of that if it becomes necessary.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:52, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

::Yes, we protected Oblivion and Lore when Skyrim came out. See [[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 21#More Skyrim-Related Policy Changes|here]] and the Status section at the bottom. Main space is permanently protected against page creation except by trusted users (autopatrolled, user patrollers, patrollers, and admins).

::As for item redirects, I'll take a look at what Rpeh and Nephele did last time, but I'm probably going to need some direction on that. Since I'm not playing ESO, I have no frame of reference to make sense of what's in the uespLog files that Dave uploaded. But that can be taken up on my talk page or in IRC if anyone feels they have a good handle on the info and can provide me some clear instructions on what to do.

::I agree that we probably don't need too many additional admins, and I agree with the people suggested. I'd rather wait and see if we need more than promote too many and have people not have a firm grasp of what they're doing because they don't have the chance to do it often enough. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:06, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:::I pre-ordered ESO and will be playing it as soon as I can (5 days before launch), and subsequently will be active. I wouldn't mind being a temporary admin if I was asked to, but it would be best to rely on the admins we currently have. As was the case with Skyrim, many activities needed can be done without even owning the game. I suspect we won't have as big of a rush as Skyrim, but due to the sheer size of the game we'll likely see as many if not more page creations and edits.

:::As a side note, if we do lock page creation in some namespaces, we might want to create a notice for all page creations suggesting that they create the page in "Online" space, while providing a link to the correct article name (if possible). I'm pretty sure we have an extension that can do that, but I'm not familiar with it. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 20:19, 25 March 2014 (GMT)

::::Page creation is now limited to those with the <code>tboverride</code> permission (see [[Special:UserGroupRights]]) in the following namespaces: Online, Skyrim, Dragonborn, and Lore. It looks like we had some issues with this the last time around, and Nephele implemented some custom coding changes, but we've updated the code since then and no longer have her changes active. I'm not entirely sure what the issue was, so I'd like to wait and see how things go on this front, then figure out what, if anything, needs to be done this time around. I'll review our namespace-specific page creation messages after I get back from walking the dog. Oh, and in case I've done anything wrong, the lockdown changes are at [[MediaWiki:Titleblacklist]]. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:10, 29 March 2014 (GMT)

::::As it turns out, most of the notices we would want to create have already been done. I [[MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new-nocreate|added one]] that should reduce the number of clicks needed before users find out that they can't create a page, but apart from that, I think we have everything we need. If anyone notices somewhere where additional help text would be useful, please let me know, if you can't find/create it yourself. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:55, 29 March 2014 (GMT)

===Temporary Administrative Rights for Alfwyn, Jak, and Jeancey===
Considering the date, we need to decide on this sooner rather than later. I am fine with these three helping out the administration during this period. Once ESO related content has calmed down, the rights will be removed.

*'''Support''': As nominator --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 01:10, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support (Alfwyn, Jeancey)''': Jeancey and Alfwyn have my immediate and unconditional support for adminship. They are hardworking and active users. Jeancey is definitely one of - if not the most - the most knowledgeable and active ESO editors, and Alfwyn, given his server access, is effectively an administrator, so why not finalise it? -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 01:40, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
:'''Neutral (Jak)''': Jak Atackka, I am neutral for. While he also has server rights, he appears incredibly inactive, with only rare chirping in on random discussions. Since he's rather inactive (or appears so), I don't know how beneficial his adminship would necessarily be to the ESO launch at this present time.-[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 01:40, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Yes to all three. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:46, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Sounds good. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 01:55, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Jak has said (somewhere...don't remember where) that he'll be more active, so I'm good with all three. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:05, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': All hands on deck! -- [[User:Hargrimm|Hargrimm]][[User talk:Hargrimm|(T)]] 02:45, 28 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': I've been mostly lurking on the wiki lately, but I don't think I've seen more than a few bad edits from any of these three editors in months. I know Jeancey will be good for this, and while I haven't looked at all the others' edits lately, I would trust them with it anyway, despite Jak's inactivity. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 02:47, 28 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': All three are good, intelligent choices. I'd like to say 'active', but Jak hasn't been around too much. Regardless, I'm pretty sure he'll be around more now so that doesn't change my vote at all. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 02:47, 28 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Excellent choices. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 04:37, 28 March 2014 (GMT)

The active community is unanimous and the editors in nomination haven't objected to their position, think we can [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Snowball|Snowball this]] so that they have their buttons and a fast practice with them before the servers launch and new editors flood in? -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 05:08, 30 March 2014 (GMT)

Done -- May Stendarr have mercy on their souls...;) -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 10:23, 30 March 2014 (GMT)

== Thumbnail Creation Error ==

I've noticed it on a few occasions, and have seen some conversation trying to clear up this issue, but a [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy#MediaWiki_thumbnail_bug|user just reported]] an issue with our thumbnail generation. While I do not have the technical know how to diagnose the issue myself, my looking for a solution from Mediawiki gave me little in the way of a fix. I did find their [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Errors_and_symptoms#Image_Thumbnails_not_working_and.2For_appearing documentation] on this sort of issue, but am unsure what their suggestions will exactly do. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 23:36, 30 March 2014 (GMT)
:I fixed some yesterday with null edits. Try that. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 00:02, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
::Just ran into this issue, tried what Anil said, and it worked; confirmed. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 01:10, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
:::I just tried something that may be related. Please post back here if the issue continues to crop up. Note that there may be some residual thumbnails where this has occurred and just needs fixing. The real test will be to see if there are any clearly new cases. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:43, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
::::We have [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim_talk:Danica_Pure-Spring&curid=111947&diff=1309017&oldid=907716&rcid=1387048 another reporting] on this problem. I'm sure additional reports aren't particularly helpful, as this one appears to add no more additional information than AKB's report, but there's definitely something up. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 06:44, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
:::::It's possible that was a "leftover". If not, I'm at a loss, as I see ImageMagick installed and the file present exactly where it should be on every server we have. I'll bring it to Dave's attention and hopefully he can figure out what the problem is. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:13, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
:Three more have been spotted and fixed by me over the last two days ([[Skyrim:No Stone Unturned]], [[Skyrim:Arniel's Endeavor]], and [[Skyrim:Riften]]). I've been checking the page histories, and none of these pages have been edited since these started appearing, so hopefully these are just leftovers. Interestingly, they only seem to be found in the Skyrim namespace. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 15:37, 1 April 2014 (GMT)
::I actually just found one on a Morrowind page. I'm not sure if it would still be a remnant from who knows when, but it was there. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 03:48, 2 April 2014 (GMT)
:The [[Oblivion:Quest Items]] page seems to have the same problem. It was working earlier, then suddenly went all gray-boxy. It happened first when I clicked on a link for a specific item, http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Eye_of_Nocturnal#Eye_of_Nocturnal-- [[User:Musicman247|Musicman247]] ([[User talk:Musicman247|talk]]) 17:33, 8 April 2014 (GMT)
::Okay, I've found another possible source of the problem, so let's see how it goes. Again, there could be cases of leftovers, but if there's clearly a new case where this is happening (e.g., it was fine after I posted this and ''then'' became problematic afterwards) let me know. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:31, 8 April 2014 (GMT)
:It's spread to the [[Main Page]] now. -- [[User:Musicman247|Musicman247]] ([[User talk:Musicman247|talk]]) 01:18, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
::Ok, the thumbnails work when I'm logged in, but they don't work when I'm not. -- [[User:Musicman247|Musicman247]] ([[User talk:Musicman247|talk]]) 01:19, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
:::I purged the page. Didn't see anything logged in and it looked alright when I logged out. Is it fixed now?--[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 01:23, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
::::All bets are off when you're logged out. Data there can be several days old. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:48, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::Still happening on random pages e.g. [[Skyrim:Reanimate_(spells)]], [[Skyrim:Dungeon_Delving_(Jarl_-_Caves)]] (no Helm of Winterhold thumbnail). Running Chrome here, but (hopefully) not a problem at the user end.--[[User:Lmstearn|Lmstearn]] ([[User talk:Lmstearn|talk]]) 00:56, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
::::::Did someone fix it? The above pages are working now. Logged out/in at the time of the previous message- surely that's not anything to do with it.--[[User:Lmstearn|Lmstearn]] ([[User talk:Lmstearn|talk]]) 05:13, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
{{od}} Someone else mentioned seeing them randomly get fixed, so this may be something intermittent. Whatever it is, it's perplexing both Dave and I. If nothing else, the update to MediaWiki 1.22 will probably resolve, or at least shed more light on, the issue because they've reworked some of the code that's involved with this issue. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:57, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
:Maybe something to do with caching, I have yet to actually see one of these as broken, whether thats because they get fixed before I get online I don't know. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 10:59, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
::This on ([[:File:SurveyResult_Advertising.png]]) has never displayed for me or legoless since it was uploaded. It may be related. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:26, 13 April 2014 (GMT)
:::So, I spent probably close to an hour trying various things, then I asked in the MediaWiki Dev chatroom and someone solved it for me in a couple of minutes. It's not the wiki that's doing that, it's your ad blocker. Mine's doing it in Chrome as well, but when I use Firefox, everything shows up fine. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:47, 14 April 2014 (GMT)
::::As simple as that? So any file with 'Advertising' gets blocked by adblockers? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:52, 14 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::At least some of them, yeah. I don't know if they're all that simplistic. Moving the file fixed the issue for me. Anyone else having any problems? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:01, 14 April 2014 (GMT)
Whatever is causing this, each instance is fixed easily by purging the cache for that page. I spent a couple hours last night purging a few hundred pages with the error (they were easy to find because the error has been around a while and was cached on Google and therefore searchable). The majority were in Skyrim pages. with a lesser amount in Oblivion and Morrowind. And a few in Lore and Online, and about two each in Arena and Daggerfall. Not that the distribution means anything. The error message looks like something was done wrong with an update or install to the thumbnailing software; something was in a different folder than it was before, but it looked for the old one. But I could be completely wrong about that. Far as know, it shouldn't be a continuous problem. We're not seeing it show up with new thumbnails, we were simply noticing it on ones that were already broken. I'm pretty sure I got every single one that was left, but if there's anymore, a simple purge should do it. I hope that helps. –-[[User:Mjr162006|Mjr162006]] ([[User talk:Mjr162006|talk]]) 12:27, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
:Wow, thanks for doing all that, Mjr! It never even occurred to me to comb through our site for them on Google. I think a couple of people reported what appeared to be new instances, but now that you've purged them all, let's see if they continue to pop up or not. Doing another search on Google in a week or so should be a good indicator of whether there's anything new. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:59, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
::New instance on [[UESPWiki:Oblivion Houses Redesign Project|Oblivion Houses Redesign Project]]. Thumbnails were fine, then I refreshed the page and they disappeared. Related? Will purge the page, but thought I'd mention it. --[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 16:19, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
:::Thanks. That would appear to confirm that it's still happening. Were you on a regular server or a mobile one at the time? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:11, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
::::Regular server. A few of the OB houses were affected as well as I was going through them. --[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 17:34, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::Darned if I can reproduce it. This may be something we just have to live with until we upgrade to 1.22, which has a total rewrite of the relevant section of the code. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:46, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
::::::Is there some way to purge the entire system. Sokoro reported that images on SR:Specialty Gear were not creating, but despite both being on Firefox, both restarting our browsers and both bypassing cache to refresh, I could not get the images to disappear while he could not get them to appear. With pages being fixed and then unfixed it appears to me that someone who has the pages cached is breaking thumbnails unintentionally with their bad cache. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 15:05, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
{{od}}If you were both looking at them at the same time, then that very strongly suggests the cache, as you say. I've asked Dave to restart memcached, since I don't have permission to do so, myself. If that ends up not working, then yes, we can force the wiki to regenerate all thumbnails, though I'd imagine that'll put a bit of a load on our servers for a while. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 15:41, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
:Something that I noticed when creating all the ESO place pages - If I was on one of the list pages with all the Place Links on it, and I created or edited one of the individual place pages, if I remembered to Purge the page before going back to the list page, it was fine. But if I omitted that step, the list page had broken links for everything that needed #loading, and nothing would fix it short of going back to the page, Purging it, and then also Purging the list page. So it's possible EditorA edited an article page, and then EditorB looked at the list page before EditorA had a chance to Purge the article, but then EditorA ''did'' eventually Purge the article and went back to the list. So for EditorA, there appears to be no problem, but EditorB, since he never Purged and visited the list page while it was in an un-purged state, now has a cached version of the page with broken links. I think this might explain a lot of the inconsistency. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:30, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
::Dave just restarted memcached, so let's see what that does. As for the #load issue, while that could cause its own problems, I don't see a way for that to cause the ulimit4.sh error. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:41, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
:::I think we have our first solid lead on this. [[User:Moinante|Moinante]] noticed that he got sent to <code>skins2.uesp.net</code> when clicking on a file link instead of staying on <code>www.uesp.net</code> as expected. I don't know for sure why that would happen, and I've written to Dave about it, but quite clearly, if anything forces the page to re-generate thumbnails while on skins2, it causes the now-infamous ulimit4.sh error we've been seeing to appear on www. So, if you happen to notice yourself getting sent to skins2 unexpectedly, please fix the URL to www and if things don't look right, please purge the page. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 23:33, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
::::I'm not sure if this will help, but in perhaps the last 30% or so of the pages on the Google Search when I was fixing as many as I could find the other night, there were quite a few results that were in the skins2 domain. Not sure what that meant, I tried purging it, and nothing happened. I then did what you just suggested and changed it to www instead and purged that page and it worked. Somehow Google's crawlers are getting sent to the skin2 domain with some pages that had this issue. I'm not sure why, or if it's even relevant or helpful, but I figured I'd just mention it just in case.--[[User:Mjr162006|Mjr162006]] ([[User talk:Mjr162006|talk]]) 12:43, 20 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::As a workaround, Dave has installed ImageMagick on the server that hosts skins2.uesp.net (meaning that any thumbnails needed can actually be created now, even if you get sent to skins2). In theory, that should at least prevent any further errors, though as always, refreshing old ones may still be necessary. It doesn't really tell us why the problem is happening in the first place, but Dave's looking into that. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:22, 20 April 2014 (GMT)
{{od}} Well, good news and bad news. The good news is that the old error seems to be gone. The bad news is, there's a new one. Same thing as before with images not displaying, except this time it says ''Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/home/uesp/www/w/images/e/e7/OB-npc-S'mirra.jpg': No such file or directory. convert: missing an image filename `/tmp/transform_2102562-1.jpg'.'' (I copied this from one page, but I've found five with the same error). My browser just shows the normal UESP address. It's really weird, Lore: Alchemy A just had it, and some of the images had errors but others didn't. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 00:13, 22 April 2014 (GMT)
:That's probably a minor configuration error. I've alerted Dave so he can have a look at it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 00:50, 22 April 2014 (GMT)

::I have to say the amount of people commenting on this happening is starting to become too much. Is there anything more can be done to resolve this quicker? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:20, 25 April 2014 (GMT)

:::I don't have access to skins2, so it's up to Dave. <s>If the errors are still occurring, then I can poke him again, but I'd need to know what exactly is happening at this point.</s> Dave's obviously made ''some'' configuration change since Anil's post, since skins2 is no longer available from the web at all. I suspect the current error is just a minor setup issue. I'll poke him again. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:41, 25 April 2014 (GMT)
::::Any news on this? It's affecting the main page now. --[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 08:12, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
:::::Was it the same error of "...unable to open image..."? Just want to make sure I'm not telling Dave the wrong thing. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:54, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
::::::Personally, I see it happening right now on a license template for an ESO NPC image (Error creating thumbnail: convert etc etc). I did a blank save and it fixed itself. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 16:57, 7 May 2014 (GMT)

:The entire page of [[Dragonborn:Places|Dragonborn Places]] is an error. I did not purge it so you could see it. Here's the error message - Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/home/uesp/www/w/images/7/72/SR-mapicon-Temple_of_Miraak.png': No such file or directory.convert: unable to open file `/home/uesp/www/w/images/7/72/SR-mapicon-Temple_of_Miraak.png'. convert: missing an image filename `/tmp/transform_6edfa3-1.png'.--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 18:02, 7 May 2014 (GMT)

::Either someone else purged it or different people are seeing different things, because it looks fine for me when I'm logged in. Logged out, though, I see an older version that's the same as what you saw. I've written to Dave about it.

::Just heard back from Dave and while I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, I just want to confirm. People that are seeing this: you ''are'' logged in when you see the error, right? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:21, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
:::Yes- logged in. So maybe its just me...--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 18:29, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
::::Can't be just you because I saw it when I logged out. We just wanted to establish if it was happening ''only'' to logged out users, so thanks for the confirmation. Dave and I are still baffled as to the overall cause of the issue, but he should at least be able to temporarily prevent it from happening while we figure out what's going on. It may still occur on newly uploaded images, though. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:59, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
:::::@RH: Yep, it was the "unable to open image" error. I can also confirm that it shows up regardless of whether you're logged in or not. --[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 20:19, 7 May 2014 (GMT)

== Block needed ==

For [http://uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/134.249.52.153 this IP] due to spambot-like nonsense posts please. [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 10:28, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

:Just to follow up here as well, Dave got this a few hours ago. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 13:22, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

::Not sure if this needs a new section, but [http://uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.153.10.122] needs a block. Also, I suggest including "Tramadol" in the spam filter, seems to be in each of this user's edits. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 20:36, 4 April 2014 (GMT)
:::I gave it six hours while we wait on an admin to attend to it, because that IP was rather prolific and did several edits in a row. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 20:45, 4 April 2014 (GMT)
::::TRL got it, thanks Damon! [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 20:47, 4 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::I just added Tramadol to the filter as well. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:13, 4 April 2014 (GMT)

== ESO Data from uespLog ==

I've been trying very hard not to play ESO all day and work on getting the data parser and viewer for all the data being collected by the [[User:Daveh/uespLog_Addon|uespLog addon]]. The first version working is now up at:

::'''[http://content3.uesp.net/esolog/viewlog.php ESO Log Viewer]'''

Note that only books have been parsed at the moment and the interface is just enough to get it working. I've been focusing on getting all the general design/programming done and adding more types will hopefully be added soon relatively quickly. I'll make it look pretty later.

A question for those more familiar with CSList and adding wiki content: What output format(s) would you like this tool to have? I have CSList can output things in a wiki format (I think...I'll have to take a closer look at it). I assume part of the purpose for the tool is to easily mass import data from the log viewer into the wiki and having it output in a wiki format I assume would be desirable. Example work flows of how people use CSList and how they would like to use the ESO log viewer would be helpful along with anything else you can think of. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 01:55, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

:For the bot, I'd rather work with raw data and take care of the wiki formatting myself so that it's easily changed if we need to. So I'm fine with any common format, with CSV probably being the easiest. If it needs to support structured data later on, JSON or XML are also good, with JSON being my preference. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:11, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

== [[Special:Contributions/96.49.236.201|96.49.236.201]] - a longer block, perhaps? ==

May I toss out the suggestion that a month doesn't seem adequate in my opinion, judging from this user's recent behaviour? He came into IRC earlier asking how he can get around his wiki block, then he became hostile when Nocte (at my suggestion) booted him from the IRC for attempting to evade his block. Then, when I botched banning him in IRC, he simply returned and began a lovely string of aggression and name-calling. So, I see conspiracy to evade his wiki ban, evasion of his IRC ban, and etiquette violations for his insults and threats in IRC, not to mention the trouble he caused the last few days leading up to his wiki ban. This one is definitely a troublemaker. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 06:11, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
:Also, can we put a semi-protect on their talk page? A quick look at the history shows a rapid stream of lewd comments in response to my block. [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 06:16, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
::I extended the block to one year for harassing users over IRC, but I left the ability for them to edit their talk page (in case they do wish to appeal). They haven't abused the privilege to edit their own talk page enough to warrant blocking them from it, but if things do get out of hand on their talk page, I'll change that. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 06:57, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
:::Given that the user just removed warnings and blocks from their talk page, I propose that all editing rights for the user be revoked. [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 07:28, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
::::Yeah, I'd consider that abusing their privilege. I've temporarily changed it so they can't edit their talk page. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 07:52, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::Thanks a bunch! Also HI JAK :D [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 08:19, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

== Google plus really annoying ==

That google plus thing right below the search bar? It sucks.

It always loads slower than the rest of the sidebar, which moves around on the page as a result. Often, this means that instead of clicking the forum button, for example, I end up clicking "Contact Us". Instead of "Recent Changes", I click "Featured Articles". It's been grinding my gears for a while, and really makes it difficult to navigate the site the way I like to. Is there any way of getting around this (or, better yet, actually fixing the issue)? [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 19:24, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

:When it was first implemented, I asked Jak Atackka how to remove it, and he told me that if you add <code>#p-googleplus { display:none; }</code> to your common.css page, it will hide the G+ button for you. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 19:50, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

::You've just made my wiki experience about 50% more enjoyable, thank you. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 20:03, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}That annoyed me to0, so I added <code>#p-googleplus { height: 25px; }</code> to my css. Fixing the height stops the bar from jumping around - should we implement something like this globally? --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 09:28, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

:Fixing the height? Go for it. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 09:51, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

== ESO and ON randomly converting to Online ==

Not sure what's caused this, whether it was intentional or otherwise, but when using the search bar to search for things with ESO in their title (eg, [[UESP:ESO Guild]], [[Template:ESO Alliances]]) the search is returning "online" instead (eg, '''UESP:online Guild''', '''Template:online Alliances''') and therefore not directing to the searched-for page. Similarly, some icons in the Place Link template on pages are searching for the file '''online-mapicon-whatever.png''' instead of '''ON-mapicon-whatever.png'''. The file call on the original page however is definitely correct. Thanks, [[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

:Sorry, I was busy with another project today, followed by a migraine, so I'm only seeing this now. I suspect this is related to a [[UESPWiki:Upgrade_History#29_March|search change]] Dave made a couple of weeks ago. If he doesn't get to it before then, I'll have a look at it tomorrow. Can you point out a couple of Place Links that have the problem? I tried randomly looking at a few and wasn't able to find any that were doing this. Thanks! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:43, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

::Yeah I would say that search change is the cause of this. I can't actually find any Place Links with that problem any more, so maybe that part has sorted itself out. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 08:45, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

:::The search thing was just a quick fix with the obvious issues. Perhaps limiting it to just replacing the first word if its "eso" or only explicit namespaces with the colon (ESO:). Although if we're going to be switching to ESO as the main namespace this is a temporary fix anyways. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 10:21, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

::::Okay, I've got a fix up on [http://content3.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch content3] (I can't confine it to the development server, since dev doesn't have MWSearch installed). Can someone poke at it and see if there are any major issues with it? The way I've set it up, if you try to go to a page like "Template:Factions in ESO" by typing it into the search bar on the left-menu, you'll automatically get redirected to "[[Template:Factions in Online]]". If you do the same from the actual search page, the "ESO" part will get auto-converted to "(ESO OR Online)", which will search for either term. The new term will be displayed in the search bar, but the link will still display as expected. If there's a way to get MediaWiki/MWSearch to just consider the terms equivalent without modifying the search itself, I can't find it, so my solution is definitely still a bit of a kludge, but I think it'll get us where we want to go. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:27, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

:::::Yeah, I would say that works. At least, I think it does what I wanted   :P   [[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:32, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

::::::Okay, this is now implemented across all our servers (after bringing down mobile momentarily...apologies for the brief interruption of service for anyone affected). – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:39, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

== Image licensing ==

We may need to adjust the wording on our image licenses. Currently, the only license that properly describes images taken from Elder Scrolls Online is the [[Template:zenimage|zenimage]] license. The [[Template:uespimage|uespimage]] license only includes Bethesda in its wording, and ESO is NOT created by Bethesda, but by its parent company, Zenimax. We either need a new license that applies to screenshots taken from ESO, or we need to reword the "uespimage" to include Zenimax images as well. I'm hesitant to make changes to existing licenses, as it could be construed as invalidating the thousands of images already using that license. I'm no lawyer, but I feel that the current choice of licenses does not provide a means of doing this properly, so we need to put something together that handles this situation. (And yes, I'm aware that "uespimage" has a parameter for specifying the company, but you can't choose this from the dropdown list, so it's next to useless, as the majority of editors won't know about it, and even if they do, it requires an additional edit after uploading for every file.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 11:52, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:It also defaults to Zenimax if the image starts with File:ON, so there should be very few cases where it an extra edit is needed. An extra option on the dropdown list would be an option, as its done with other templates and simply adds the parameter '|zenimax' to the end of the template. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 11:58, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:: An extra dropdown would be nice. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 15:01, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:::What about just using and/or wording to cover both common cases? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:10, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

::::We could just use the company that owns the series and all the studios and publishers (including the old and now defunct ones (such as Vir2L), [[General:ZeniMax Media|ZeniMax Media]]. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 16:16, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:::::We could also change it to games produced by Bethesda Softworks (which also covers them all, I believe). [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:21, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

::::::Stormhold, Shadowkey, and Oblivion Mobile, are not published by Bethesda Softworks, and Trademarks were filed under ZeniMax Media for both Skyrim and ESO. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 16:28, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:::::::Due to the fact that uespimage automatically switches to Zenimax Online when the filename starts with ON (as Silencer said), I do not see any need for anything to be changed, unless we want to add switches for Stormhold, Shadowkey and ObMob to it as well. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:17, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

== Hide Summaries ==

Can someone hide the summaries and revisions by [[Special:Contributions/150.214.205.156|this user]] to deny them what they seek. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:45, 23 April 2014 (GMT)

:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:15, 23 April 2014 (GMT)

== block request ==

[[Special:Contributions/137.175.96.221|137.175.96.221]] repeats creating new nonsens pages. --[[User:The Nerevarine|The Nerevarine]] ([[User talk:The Nerevarine|talk]]) 06:34, 26 April 2014 (GMT)

:{{User:Jeancey/Ah}} [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 07:33, 26 April 2014 (GMT)

:::Thanks. I recognised you also deleted the pages created by that IP. There is one left: {{deleted|UESPWiki talk:Administrator Noticeboard/Archives/Server Monitoring}} --[[User:The Nerevarine|The Nerevarine]] ([[User talk:The Nerevarine|talk]]) 13:04, 26 April 2014 (GMT)

== ESOMod ==

The new [[ESOMod:Main Page|ESOMod]] namespace still needs a checkbox in the Advanced search options. Maybe under the 'Online' header? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 21:39, 8 May 2014 (GMT)

:I think I got it but it's not showing the change just yet. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:38, 16 May 2014 (GMT)

::Done now. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:38, 16 May 2014 (GMT)

== Block needed for a "very nice site!" bot ==

[[User:148.251.111.46]] [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 12:21, 20 May 2014 (GMT)

:Done! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 13:28, 20 May 2014 (GMT)

::And on a related note, can the targeted page ([[Oblivion:Steel-Blue Entoloma Cap]]) get some protection for now (4 IPs and 3 different types of bot). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 18:37, 20 May 2014 (GMT)

:::Also done. I was going to change our Abuse Filter as well, but I see you've already done that. I'll have another look at our abuse logs, though, and see if there are IPs that need blocked as well. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:30, 20 May 2014 (GMT)

== Name Change? ==

Hey admins, I found a new username I like better than my own. Per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:UNC&redirect=no Wikipedia's] namechange policy, I'd like to request my username be changed to RosaNoctisMelos. The username is not on our current [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3AListUsers&username=rosa&group=&limit=100 user list]. To be fully upfront and honest, I'm doing this pretty much because I feel like a new username. If that's grounds for denying my request, I can respect that. But I'd definitely appreciate consideration! :D [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 12:01, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

:In line with the fact that you're changing your name just because you want to, I'll do it just because I've never done a user rename before. ;) Or, from the more serious, adminny perspective: there's nothing in policy that says anything about it that I can find, though if someone starts asking to change their name every week, I'm pretty sure we'll develop one in a hurry! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:53, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

::No complaints, though I agree users should find a name and stick to it. The [[Wikipedia:WP:Changing_username/Guidelines|policy guidelines]] already cover this though, but it is always at the admins discretion. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:54, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

== ESO Craglorn Images ==

I've uploaded the complete set of ESO images from yesterday's big Craglorn patch:

:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esoart-may.zip EsoArt.zip (85 MB)] -- All artwork/icons from eso.mnf and game.mnf
:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esolang-may.zip EsoLang.zip (45 MB)] -- All three language files in CSV format (uses ''`'' (tilde) as the field seperator).
:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esoloadscreens-may.zip EsoLoadScreens.zip (55 MB)] -- Loading screens
:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esomaps-may.zip EsoMaps.zip (61 MB)] -- Combined maps (558 maps that could be exported automatically)
:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esotreasuremaps-may.zip EsoTreasureMaps.zip 174 MB()] -- Treasure maps (full sized)

Like last time each ZIP contains a ''...diff.txt'' file detailing what has changed from the set of last uploaded files shortly after ESO launch. The updated map tiles are on the [http://content3.uesp.net/esomap/esomap.html ESO Dev Map] and the Craglorn map database entries will be added shortly. If everything appears to look/work ok it will be pushed to the live map as soon as possible.
-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 13:11, 23 May 2014 (GMT)

:Change of plan...am updating the map tiles on the live ESO site as I can't add the new map database entries without the map tiles being present. If anyone notices any issues with the map tiles let me know. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 13:30, 23 May 2014 (GMT)

== Protection of [[Dragonborn_talk:Easter_Eggs/Archive_2]] ==

Please and thank you. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 15:18, 27 May 2014 (GMT)

:Bot's on it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:38, 27 May 2014 (GMT)

== Block needed for spammer ==

[[User:107.150.45.108]] [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 12:42, 28 May 2014 (GMT)

:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:50, 28 May 2014 (GMT)

== ESO Temporary Admins ==

Elder Scrolls Online continues to dominate the recent changes so the caveat on when to review the status isn't quite met. However, Alfwyn and Jak have not been around enough or made any sort of edits that suggest they have any use for the administrative rights (in Jak's case he hasn't made an edit the entire time he has been an admin). It's now over two months since ESO came out and as with the other temporary changes this is a good time for a review. I'll be notifying these two about the review on their talk pages, while Jeancey (who has made a considerable contribution to the Online namespace) has been notified in the IRC, though he has shown he can use and does use the rights wisely, and shouldn't (in my opinion) have the rights removed yet as TESO is nowhere near documented enough. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 02:17, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

:I would also be in favour of leaving Jeancey's rights for the time being, since my recovery looks to be about on schedule for end of June before I feel fully functional again. He's certainly been doing appropriate administrative duties (when the rest of us have left him something to do, anyway <g>) since his temporary adminship started. Alternatively, he could just run for admin, though as I recall the terms of our original agreement, that would mean he'd have to step down from those duties until the admin nomination was complete. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:02, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

::Please remove my rights. I've been too busy with real-life (hellish semester and now a full-time job) to play ESO, let alone edit the wiki (though I have been watching it). At this point I'm unsure whether I'll return to the wiki any time this year. I didn't really want the rights to begin with, so I have no reason to keep them now. As for the other temp admins, I agree that Alfwyn isn't active enough to keep his rights (unless he makes a strong case to keep them, we'll see). Jeancey has done a good job keeping up his activity and has used his admin rights on occasion. Combined with his overall good judgment and application of said rights, I think he should keep them. At least one good admin should come out of this exercise :P. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 05:02, 11 June 2014 (GMT)
:::Agreed. We need someone like Jeancey to keep those rights, even if it's only for a short time (although he could keep them longer...). Alfwyn is a great editor, but I think his low activity means he'd be better suited for regular patroller duties. [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 12:13, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

::::With all the work he's been doing, it would almost be detrimental to take away his admin rights right now. As for Alfwyn, I don't see how it would be a bad thing to let him keep his rights. If he happens to come back, then he can do stuff, and if he doesn't everything would be just as before. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 14:16, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

:::::I concur with everyone else on Jeancey, he's been doing the bulk of the ESO work and has done it well. The other two should lose their rights, no reason for them to have admin rights they aren't going to use imo. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 14:40, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}I agree with Anil that Jeancey should keep his rights, given all the work he is doing. Even after we have documented everything for ESO, I personally wouldn't be opposed to Jeancey becoming a permanent administrator. I haven't really seen Alfwyn on the recent changes, which tells me that he is inactive and has no need for the rights. I think if he wants them later, he should make a case for them like most have to do. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 15:43, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

== Request for Semi-Protection of Online Easter Eggs page ==

Per the usual practice, can we get some semiprotection on the ESO eggs page? [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 00:34, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

:For the record, only 2 anons have edited the page, and they only made small tweaks. I'm not really ''against'' semiprotection, but there doesn't seem to be a need for it at the moment. [[User:Minor Edits|Insignificant Revisions]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 02:11, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

::I'd agree with Minor Edits. It's not a problem that can't be handled at the moment. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 10:52, 26 June 2014 (GMT)
:::True, it's not an immediate issue, but it can only help. An ounce of prevention and all that. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 14:35, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

::::Thank you for your diligence with Easter Eggs as always, Thuum. I understand your concern, and while it will surely need protection eventually, I would prefer to wait until there is a more clear need for this protection. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 14:37, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

== File Protection Request ==

[[:File:Mainpage-logo.jpg]] has once again been edited incorrectly. There shouldn't be any sort of loophole to editing the main page so this needs semi-protection. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 15:16, 28 June 2014 (GMT)
:I've given it a mostly admin only-protection, due to it being an important file. But if anyone disagrees... ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 16:41, 28 June 2014 (GMT)

:: I've bumped it up to full protection, since it's [[UESPWiki:Protection Policy|site policy]] to "[maintain] the integrity of the site logo". —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:52, 28 June 2014 (GMT)
:::Oh, sorry, I should've known. Thanks ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 16:56, 28 June 2014 (GMT)

== Jilan-dar ==

The page [[ON:Jilan-dar]] has a bad history with many diffs not related to the page, can an admin delete these please. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:15, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:43, 3 July 2014 (GMT)
::You can hide edits, have you tried that? You wouldn't have to delete and restore then ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 19:47, 3 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Hiding edits still shows the entry in the history, though. I figured delete and restore was cleaner. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:50, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

== Block Needed 2==

[[User:173.31.218.28]] --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 18:06, 10 July 2014 (GMT)

:Done. Thanks for letting us know! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:24, 10 July 2014 (GMT)

== Blockers ==

A user contacted me recently to request [[Project:Blockuser|blocker]] privileges, but even though the Blockuser page says nothing about it, I felt that I had to deny them based on the fact that they weren't a patroller. While it wasn't the original intent of the blockers group, for probably the last two years or so, the de facto rule has been that it's given only to senior patrollers. Does anybody have any objections if I update the Blockuser page to say that?

(''History lesson, as closely as I remember it:'' the original intent of the group was that during slow periods, when there was only one admin and he/she was logging off, that admin would temporarily grant the Blockers right to a patroller or other long-term user just until another admin showed up, at which point the right would be removed again. Over time, admins found it too much of a hassle to constantly add and remove the right, and started leaving it in place for a couple of senior patrollers. (This may have been a specific suggestion by someone or it may just have happened naturally over time, I don't recall.) That, in turn, led to the perception that it was for patrollers only, which in turn became the de facto reality it is now.) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:37, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

:Sounds like a good idea. If a user hasn't been trusted with patroller powers yet, they probably shouldn't be given blocker privileges since those powers require greater responsibility. They should first demonstrate their trustworthiness as a patroller before being given a power that is typically reserved to only administrators. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 03:43, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

::A verbal recommendation that they be trusted users is certainly not a bad thing, and while there aren't many active these days on my radar, over the years I've seen numerous people who could be trusted, and aren't proper Recent Changes Patrollers out of disinterest or other rights arrangements.

::That said, there is nothing wrong with putting up a recommendation that they be trusted in some way. Since the is a responding admin discretion call, I don't feel like it has to be a hard and fast rule, personally as if it were a voted in position, if that makes sense. However, if multiple people were wanting the position and we were in a position where there weren't a handful of admins and the small handful of us who are active (or in my case, not editing but still watching the RC and IRCing), I would say give it first to someone who has a position on the site over a regular no-rights user, if my thought makes sense. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 04:25, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

::: I think it's best to leave it to admin discretion. Like Damon said, some senior editors are disinterested in patrollership. As a compromise, what about a requirement to be either a patroller ''or'' autopatrolled? That would ensure a certain level of community trust without such a specific requirement. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 14:51, 16 July 2014 (GMT)
::::That's a good point to start from. I do agree that there has to be a prerequisite of being either patrolled or autopatrolled to establish trustworthiness, but we also have to consider that being a blocker is a lot bigger responsibility than patrolling and has much less room for error. A bad edit mistakenly marked as patrolled isn't a huge deal, but a block given out unfairly can lead to some pretty nasty and heated arguments, even if it's only temporary and is undone quickly. To that end, it might not be a bad idea to have some other requirements. We don't want to give blocker rights to just anyone, even among users trusted as patrollers. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 15:08, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

== The Silencer's Personal Attacks ==

Because [[User:The Silencer|The Silencer]] issued several personal attacks against Biffa in [[User_Talk:Biffa#Inaccurate Testing|this]] conversation, I was forced to give him a [[User_Talk:The Silencer#Warning|warning]]. The attacks clearly violated the etiquette policy; due to actions like that, I believe that Silencer is not fit for the rights he currently has. This is not the first time he has either risked, or has alienated other users, and I worry that it will not be the last. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 01:02, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:I don't know that I agree with an outright removal of his rights just yet; for now, a warning should be sufficient. For what it's worth though, the warning was spot-on. In fact, I was on the verge of giving him one myself. It's probably a bit soon for a request like this, but I agree that the sorts of comments that Silencer made are inexcusable for someone who's been a patroller as long as he has. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 01:10, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::My problem is that on the Patroller page is mentions that you cannot apply after recieving a warning for one month. I took that to mean if any patroller gets a warning their rights will be removed. If not, then I misunderstood it. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 01:15, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::I would also like to point out that I am a firm believer in the [[UESPWiki:Etiquette|etiquette policy]] and I find that the removal of rights is better than being blocked like the policy says. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 01:38, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:::I did not attack Biffa at all, definitely nothing that comes under or near the [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:NPA#What_is_considered_to_be_a_personal_attack.3F|listed ones on wikipedia]], I questioned his testing methods, which [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Pinewatch&diff=prev&oldid=1368908 as he claims are accurate] but have been proven inaccurate and unreliable many times over I have every right to call him out on. I have previously tried to engage him on the matter only to be ignored and mocked. so I told him to stop clinging to the claim. Breaking etiquette is not grounds for a warning on its own, especially when the people giving it refuse to acknowledge the background to the situation. Biffa accused me of having a vendetta against him, and says I've "gone out of your way to make thing unpleasant for me on this site." (both thoroughly inaccurate). The only thing that I said was his 'continued bull-headedness'. So how come I get the warning? Is it for asking him to stop spreading a falsehood, for trying to show him how his claims were wrong. Should I have to care about the emotional well-being of fairly anonymous people on the other side of the world. Am I not allowed to defend myself when people things I didn't even say? I've only ever had issues with two other editors on the site, and you'd be extremely hard-pressed to find anyone that thinks we'd be better off with those two editors continuing the path they trod (one of whom's entire contributions were eventually found to be wrong and deliberately so). So if you're going to warn me, warn me for something I did, not something you have interpreted through a complete misreading of the situation. This is a formal request for an administrator to review the warning and remove it or keep it. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:40, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::::I agree with dom on this one. If one of the qualifications to become a patroller is to not have any warnings otherwise you need to wait a month. Why then should someone who is a patroller not have it stripped for getting a warning? I think it's only fair to punish patrollers just as much as non-patrollers [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 01:45, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:::::Since I seem to be the only admin around at the moment, or at least who's responding to this situation, I'd like to suggest we give Silencer a little time to collect his thoughts. In addition to the options presented above, an [[Project:Interaction Ban|interaction ban]] is also a possibility, though that can be difficult to manage with two prolific editors. Barring any further etiquette violations, I'd like to suggest that we not do anything precipitous. I'll send a message to the other active admins to discuss appropriate follow-up actions. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:50, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}{{ec}}"''continued bull-headedness that refuses to countenance that you are fallible''" "''I really don't care about your feelings''" "''There will always be another editor to take the mantle of filling in pages.''" "''Congratulations everyone on taking the stance that the tone of the message means far more than the message itself.''" Those are your words from that conversation. From the Wikipedia article you cited: "These examples are not exhaustive. Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack ''regardless of the manner in which it is done''." (Emphasis taken from Wikipedia). Your edits, while being well-intentioned, ended up being condescending, rude, and potentially hurtful to Biffa. As our Etiquette policy says, "Personal attacks are grounds for an immediate block.". Furthermore, "Who's right and who's wrong is less important than treating others with respect. "But he/she was wrong!" is not an excuse for treating someone poorly." You showed a clear lack of respect for Biffa with those comments. If you believe he wronged you, I implore you to follow RobinHood's advice and talk to him or another administrator about it. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 01:55, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

: {{ec|2}} I've reviewed the discussion on Biffa's talk page, and I agree with the warning. This isn't the first time The Silencer has been abrasive towards other editors, but I believe this was a step too far. Despite the point trying to be made, or who has the right of it, or the experience/rights of the editors involved, common etiquette should be of paramount importance and an overly passive-aggressive attitude should not be tolerated. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 01:56, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::Two of those comments were not aimed at Biffa, and the warning was for attacking Biffa. Please please find me something that says I have to care about an editors feelings. He brought his feelings up in the conversation, so they were there to be pushed away from it. How does 'There will always be another editor' constitute an attack? You quote me but you do not explain how these are attacks. I am accused of having a vendetta with no shred of proof to back it up. That is an attack under 'Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence.' Being given a warning by someone who doesn't know the situation, or care enough to ask me to explain any of my claims is utterly outrageous. I do not accept this warning on the basis put forward as it lacks evidence, thought, or carefully applied policies. It is a kneejerk action to a situation that did not call for it, where I did not break any rules where a warning is an immediate reaction, where fault is being applied fairly. Everything I am accused of can be said of Biffa in equal measure and I am appalled that people would blindly misread my words to apply meanings that are not there. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 02:16, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Are we really going to do this? Because I'm not going to do this. According to your userpage, you're 5 years older than I am. That's old enough that I shouldn't have to explain to you why it's important to be nice to people. So I'm not going to. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 02:28, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::::{{ec}} The way I view "There will always be another editor" is you were saying that he is unneeded on this wiki. You don't have to care about anyone's feelings. You just have to be kind enough to them that it doesn't seem like an attack. I am uninvolved in that discussion, so when I saw it I immediately thought of it as you putting him down. The warning was not a quick reaction from me. I thought very carefully about it and reviewed what was said. Even when I was about to post the warning I hesitated and made sure that it was a valid one. I do apologize if you feel offended at me giving you a warning. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 02:33, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:::::The Silencer, the point here is that regardless of the quality of Biffa's edits or testing, what happened here is that someone was making good-faith edits to the wiki and you responded with unnecessary confrontation that quickly devolved into rudeness. The way we interact with each other matters. People don't stick around in hostile environments, and when we need every good editor we can get for as long as we can get them. If we aren't mindful of the emotional well-being of fairly anonymous people on the other side of the world, we don't work together, and if we don't work together, we aren't the best anymore.

:::::Sure, we do warn people that their work will be edited mercilessly, but that doesn't mean we get to be so blatantly rude when we talk to each other about edits. Sometimes you have to say something that someone won't want to hear, and that comes with the territory; however, how your initial message could be read as anything but hurtful is really beyond me...and it just gets worse from there. I'm also a bit surprised that you didn't let someone else approach the conversation if you've raised your concerns and had conflicts in the past.

:::::Now, since it's late for many of us, I'm going to recommend everyone take a break from this. We can refocus our energy on how to handle this once people have had a chance to cool down. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 02:54, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

{{od}} {{ec}}I'm inclined to agree as well with the evidence put forward that The Silencer was a little too forward and aggressive towards Biffa. If I was the one responding, I wouldn't have given a warning and would have talked the situation down and eases tensions without such drastic action and discussion of things like rights removals and warnings, it was none the less completely justified. Silencer certainly needs to be politely reminded that he needs to watch what he says, but I think that a more cautious and calm approach to this discussion is needed going forward, because things are certainly tense, even in this rights discussion. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 03:14, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:{{ec}}Yes we are, because this is about being given a warning partly for saying I don't care about someone's feelings and being told I should. I tried to talk and all I got was hostility and accusations. How about people read Biffa's replies to any of my messages on the wiki, where all I get is sarcasm, ignorance, and hate, and try to understand that bull-headed is a very tame reaction to what is spouted in my direction. All I'm getting here is that I shouldn't have bothered trying to find a solution or confront someone on a blatant untruth, that it's better to be nice and wrong, than blunt and right. The truth isn't allowed now? There will always be another editor, just as there'll be other patrollers and admins. You applied a reason to something you didn't understand, didn't consult me on it's meaning, and gave me a warning, that is not a good train of thought. Your uninvolvement is exactly the problem, were you aware of why my opening post was worded like a reply, did you take the time to follow the story back longer than the last few hours? You have taken my words out of context, applied wholly different meanings, not taken any time to find out why a 'senior' (as in someone who's been around so long) editor would act in such a way, and taken an arbitrary and blunt approach to resolving a situation that arose. The same can be said for Thuum intersecting an argument and helping to divert it away from its intent with a couple of paragraphs on my behaviour that would have been more appropriate on my talk page (not to mention the continued applied reasons to words I didn't even say). While not exactly unbiased in this situation, there is still nothing that approaches breaking the personal attacks policy, unless it now includes discussing an editors methods and reasoning when they can be proven wrong. [ec eshe reply] Sure, when taken out of context and read on it's own it seems rude, but anyone who was considering giving a warning should look to see why someone would act like that, and they would see it was a response to a claim he made while undoing an edit of mine, thus taken in context it loses its rudeness, or how else does one say 'what you do isn't what you claim'. Seeing as the warning is going to stay, I don't have much interest in what else happens here, especially if people refuse to allow context its rightful place. Biffa's reactions have cause this, no-one else is interested in getting involved, no-one patrols his major edits or tries to correct him, else they face an immediate interrogation on their reasoning for it. I was given neither the time or place to explain or prove my accusations, I was instead told to shut up stop questioning people who are wrong 'for the good of the wiki'. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 03:19, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::Despite what Biffa and others may have done, issuing personal attacks wasn't the correct response. In my opinion, since you have a problem with what Biffa has said to/about you, you should contact an administrator and explain how you feel. Even in context, your remarks are rude. Rude is always rude, regardless of what caused the actions. Sometimes, rudeness is understandable and can be overlooked. In this case, I tried to defuse the situation by suggesting you both step back and take a breather. After that failed, I waited to see what else would be said and eventually came to the conclusion that a warning is needed because of etiquette policy violations. In hindsight, the reason I put on the warning was not the exact one that should have been used (The one that was placed was too specific), in my opinion. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 03:45, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Can I just say that, looking at the conversation Dom referenced above, Biffa slings some mud too? I will not disagree that Silencer's tone could be perceived as abrasive, but to be honest so can Biffa's. Silencer is a patroller, and patrollers are held to high standards true, but I think we need to recognise that both parties were at fault here. I have mixed feelings regarding the validity of the warning issued to Silencer, but I am vehemently opposed to even proposing that his rights be revoked. It is important to recognise that we are all human, here. None of us are perfect, and any one of us can get too passionate about a discussion. I do agree with eshe, though - a break from this would be a good idea. -- [[User:RosaNoctisMelos|RNM]]|[[User_talk:RosaNoctisMelos|T]] 07:28, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
::::I think most of us are in agreement at this point that some regrettable things were said in that discussion, and that a warning is the only thing that needs to come out of this. There's not much point in continuing to rehash the same things that have already been said and explained, so I suggest that we all just take whatever lessons need to be taken from this and move on so we can get back to editing without distractions. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 11:56, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::It seems clear that no-one is familiar with the policy I have supposedly broken, which actively discourages slinging warnings about in dealing with it. I completely and utterly refute the accusation I have personally attacked Biffa, you have taken my words out of context, applied your own meanings to them (not my meanings), applied them to a policy that it doesn't break, and incorrectly applied said policy. Are people happy to blindly avoid the truth of my statement? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:48, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
===Edit Break 1===
{{od}}No one is ignoring the truth of your statement(s). Can you show me where the policy discourages "slinging warnings"? The words you said were construed as personal attacks, by myself and several other "senior" (Be around longer) editors. If you intention was not to attack him, why did you not (From what I could tell, and I could be wrong here, my apologies if I am) take a break from the discussion once it started to become heated? Personal attacks, hostility, and aggressive behavior cannot be tolerated on the wiki. It just causes a negative atmosphere that makes people less likely to want to contribute. I was hoping that as a senior editor, you would notice your behavior and apologize or correct it, or something. I would also like to point out that I find your edit summaries to be negative and unneeded. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 18:41, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:I think at this point it's safe to say that your words were rude, The Silencer. Regardless of how you meant them, everyone who's commented on this believes they were rude, which is a pretty good indicator that they indeed were. I'll give you a bit of advice, because I have the same problem at time: Think about what you've written before you save it. If it seems like someone ''might'' take offense, hit cancel. If you feel your comments are truly needed, ask someone else privately to review it first. Voila, we avoid all of this. <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|DimeCadmium]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|...!!1!]] 18:54, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::Your comment shows the truth of how little you know about the policy [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:NPA#Responding_to_personal_attacks|here]] (our only policy on attacks is that you can be blocked so we defer to wikipedia). I don't know what that intelligence that comment on 'taking a break' has when you cite my opening post as being a personal attack. I'll ignore your comment on my edit summaries as it doesn't help at all, and I find your manipulation of my words to suit your needs a far more offensive crime than my irreverent yet accurate summaries. Until someone responds intelligently to my requests to review the situation I hold you all in contempt. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 18:59, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:::Yes, Biffa said things he shouldn't have. But that's not relevant - two lefts don't make a right, and two wrongs don't either.
:::Your comments were (in my opinion and most others', judging from the above) '''extremely''' derogatory, if not downright disrespectful or rude. And I can't speak for anyone else, but I've felt the same about comments you've made elsewhere in the past. Whether it's against policy or not, it's not a good atmosphere to have on a wiki - especially when it's made by someone in a position of authority. As you say on your own userpage, the most important pillar of any wiki is that "If the rules prevent you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore them.".
:::To me, personally, your initial comment on Biffa's talk page reads like this: "You're stupid for thinking your testing is up to scratch." Maybe your message was different, but that's the message I (and again I think most others') got from it, which is the important part: perception. Intent needs to be considered, but perception is more important. <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|DimeCadmium]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|...!!1!]] 19:10, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
{{ec}}How about this, then? There have been multiple users, myself included, who have attempted to put an end to this and ask everyone to move on. At this point, we're only giving you a warning. Let's not continue the discussion and risk necessitating further action. I'm going to politely request for a second time that we all just let this die down before it gets worse. In the interest of ending this, I think that everyone should refrain from commenting unless they have some vitally important revelations. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 19:12, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::::How about someone actually reviews the situation and doesn't filibuster and outright lie in order to keep this warning on my page that is neither merited or correct. I'd rather end up banned than accept a warning based on lies and manipulation, so how about you go away and let an administrator respond without having to diffuse your inflammatory remarks insisting that I lie down and take it. Everyone here has fallen for the meanings put forward by other users insisting that this is what I mean, how about you all stop putting words in my mouth and actually use your own eyes. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:18, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::You know, I'm trying to give you a break here. I'm trying to help defuse tension so that YOU can keep your rights. But if your response is to throw that in my face and tell me that I need to go away and let the admins tell you what they've already told you again, then maybe you SHOULD lose your rights. Throughout all of this, you could have walked away at any point. You could have shown some humility, you could have apologized. Instead, you've told several other patrollers (and 3 admins) that we're wrong and that we don't know what we're talking about. Your comments in this discussion and your disrespect for the consensus of the community are already approaching another etiquette violation, if they haven't crossed that line already. I'm done commenting on this, and I'm done defending you. If you would really rather be banned than keep your rights, I have no objections. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 19:26, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::: Okay, this needs to stop. I think everybody has spoken, and Silencer has defended himself more than plenty. Rest assured that all administrators are dealing with this at the moment (on e-mail), so please calm down and take a break from this discussion. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:28, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::::You call that defending me? Every statement you've made slanders me, encourages me to accept the lies being told against me and allow this travesty to stand. Wouldn't you love to find me in breach of etiquette and warn me (which isn't an appropriate response per the policy) while I try to defend myself from the lies, just remember that as you are an involved editor you shouldn't be giving the warning yourself, I'll even allow you to take my words and make entire sentences up to support your position seeing as everyone else agrees that that is now acceptable. Do you know whats worse than being right? Being silenced because of it. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:36, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

{{ec}}I fail to see what truth your statements hold. Your initial post suggests that Biffa's testing methods are "fatally flawed", which is certainly not true. If his methods were that inaccurate, it would have been noticed and addressed by now. I'm not suggesting that his methods are perfect and that your advice of having him share his methods would not help out, but to suggest that the majority of the information he contributes is flawed is far from true. You then go on to point out some vague errors with the Goldenglow Estate page rather than pointing out specific items or actually fixing these supposed errors on the page itself that you so clearly were able to identify by just quickly glancing at the page. If he makes so many errors, why not just correct them yourself to make your point? If you actually give him solid evidence that his methods are flawed, he would most likely be more willing to share his methods with you. Your intentions in trying to help an editor improve the quality of his work are certainly good, but just blindly stating that their work is flawed without actual evidence to support your claim is far from a good way to go about this and such statements really don't have much truth.

You then go on and suggest that Biffa should go and look at the patrol log to see how many of his large content edits have not been patrolled. This, you suggest, shows that the patrollers are not happy with the quality of the page yet. You've been around here longer than me, so I don't think I have to tell you that the large majority of page revamps stay unpatrolled for a long amount of time. Some of these edits don't even get patrolled. To the best of my recollection, most of my Oblivion and Skyrim NPC edits and OPRP edits before I became autopatrolled often went unpatrolled and some probably were never patrolled. This is largely due to the fact that some patrollers do not have the time/are not knowledgeable enough about the type of page or the associated project to patrol said edits, not because the revamp contains a number of major flaws. The project of the associated page type serves as the patroller of the content of these types of edits, allowing errors of the initial revamp to be corrected such as a patroller would do. So your "test" that you suggest to Biffa to allow him to see the "fatally flawed" nature of his edits is quite a flawed one and such a statement really holds no truth.

So you may suggest that everyone here is ignoring the truth of your statements, but the fact is that your statements really don't hold much truth. While your suggestion that Biffa share his testing methods so that the flaws in them can be found in them may be a good suggestion, you fail to provide any evidence that his testing methods contain flaws. Rather than just telling him that all the hard work he has put into his pages is flawed, provide evidence of his mistakes in a less hostile manner and he may be willing to recognize his mistakes and share his methods with you so that he can become more accurate. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 19:40, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:{{ec}} I think that's quite enough from everyone. Everyone's input is appreciated, but nothing productive is coming from this right now. Now is the time to step away, before things escalate any more absurdly than they already have. There do not need to be blocks going out here, but if people are determined to keep fighting over this, we can certainly change that. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 19:43, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

===Edit Break 2===
::Has there been a decision yet? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:54, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::My e-mail to you a couple of weeks ago was intended as the final discussion of the matter. There will be no blocks issued and no rights removed. The warning will stand, however, as a reminder that courtesy and patience are expected from all our editors, but most especially those who represent the wiki as staff. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:45, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::Your email was worded as how the discussion was heading not an end, also it does not serve as a suitable response to this issue and I request that either it is copied here or something more appropriate is typed out. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:53, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::::There was little other discussion of note after my e-mail, and I tried to cover everything that needed to be covered. If you have concerns about Biffa's editing, then we can discuss that as a separate issue, either by e-mail or publicly. Considering that the last time you discussed this publicly, it resulted in a warning, I'd suggest the former.

:::::The original request was to have your rights removed as a result of the warning. My response covered the validity of the warning and whether or not your rights should be removed as a result. What more do you feel is needed here? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:07, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::::The email treats the issue with a degree of familiarity that is inappropriate in such cases. What I got out of it was that the admins planned to leave the warning, on the grounds that it looked like I crossed the line elsewhere, not for the reasons for which it was given, which is so wrong it hurts. It appears I wasn't found guilty of breaching a policy that demanded a warning, but it was left because I choose to vigorously defend myself against people and admins that were not taking the time to actually look at the whole thing and just following the party line. I wasn't given a chance to explain myself, or asked to, and I have been found guilty in closed session, by people afraid to air their opinions in public and respond intelligently to my requests. Many people appear to have an agenda against me, simply for being able to find flaws in their thinking or proposals, with my words being twisted and given alternate meanings time and again (an action acknowledged by one user who did so). Having a warning left in place when I have been found not guilty of the offence, nevermind that the policy itself was incorrectly applied and a warning was inappropriate even if I had broken it, calls into question the suitability of everyone involved to continue as an administrator and have any authority in what they do. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:39, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::::: You were warned for a lack of etiquette in the discussion with Biffa, not for defending yourself. Multiple admins have contacted you privately to listen to your side of the story. This discussion is about your suitability to possess the rights given to you, so I don't feel you're in a position to call into question the authority of the admins who are dealing with this. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 21:06, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}{{ec}}No, the warning remains in place because you earned it with your actions during your interaction with Biffa. You made your case more than once; while everyone involved in this discussion agrees that you acted inappropriately, as you can see above, there really wasn't much support for the proposal to remove your rights. We chose not to block you because the warning seemed sufficient (in other words, the standard three-step process seems suitable here). This isn't a jury, Silencer, and there's no closed session. Not a single user in the conversation above agrees with your claim that you did nothing wrong, and that's why you still have a warning on your page.

The issue here (the reason why you were given the warning, why the warning is staying, and why this topic exists at all on this board) is that several users have had an issue with the way you treat others in this community. You, like all of us, are just trying to contribute to and improve the site. I understand that, and no one is accusing you of purposely trying to disrupt the site. However, like all of us, you're also bound by certain rules. This means we treat each other with respect, even when we don't feel like it. It means we take the extra effort to make sure we're communicating effectively, and that we take a second to try and see things from the other person's perspective. Communication isn't perfect and misunderstandings happen, but you've had issues with this repeatedly in the past, and the discussion here is a result of other users' frustration with the fact that you show no desire to try and correct the problem.

As I said, however, consensus was to leave the warning and your rights in place and to not move forward with a block. You're free to continue contributing like everyone else, as long as you follow the same standards that everyone else is expected to follow. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 21:09, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:Only one admin contacted me, and that was Robin with his 'end of discussion' email, so don't lie about multiple admins contacting me. To keep a warning in place on the basis of a policy that discourages warnings and lays out a procedure to open discussions and seek an explanation before taking that action is wrong. No, it's not a jury, its an execution. Rudeness is not a crime, nor is it against policy, or a personal attack. No-one has ever approached me about being too aggressive or disrespectful to them, so to say otherwise is wrong. Many editors seem to feel that me ripping apart their proposals shouldn't be allowed, but perhaps they should make sure their proposals are properly thought out before making them, and they can still reply to my posts. Just because I've ripped it apart doesn't mean you can't repair it. This is quite relevant because I can point to a few recent discussions where multiple supporters of the warning have had their ideas shot down by me, making them biased in any decision. Maybe its because I have shown a better understanding of policies and wiki know-how that people wish to find a flaw in my character and punish me for it, or perhaps you really are deluded enough to think you can break policy because I should be held to a higher level of accountability than anyone else (because even that breaks the wiki-code where everyone is held to the same level of accountability). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:40, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::It actually ''is'' against policy, which is exactly why you got the warning in the first place. Trust me, if there were some kind of conspiracy against you, we would not waste our time with warnings, discussions, or attempts to reach out to you about your attitude. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish here, but it doesn't seem to be working. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 21:49, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::No it is not, which shows that basically everyone involved doesn't know the policy they are using against me. What I want is someone to have the guts to say exactly what they think, and give a reason that isn't based on bias, misinformation, or outright lies. Why should I accept an injustice to save your peace of mind? No-one 'reached out' to me, attempted to understand what I was saying rather than use someone else's invented meanings of my words, or even attempted to understand the policy the warning was based on. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:55, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::[[UESPWiki:Etiquette]] covers everything applicable here. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 21:59, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}{{ec}} In the time it took to write this, I see there's been lots of discussion. I haven't caught up with that yet and am posting this as-written to Silencer's reply to me.

I responded with less formality than is required because I was responding to you both as a friend and an admin, and I was trying to defuse the situation, not ramp it up by rehashing what others had already said. What I said there may have been a bit more friendly, but no less relevant for it. You crossed the line both in your original post and in your replies to it. As it says right in the Wikipedia list you linked to, "Serious accusations require serious evidence. Evidence often takes the form of diffs and links presented on wiki." So far, those have not been provided that I'm aware of. The only link I see in this discussion is Biffa reverting your cleanup tag. Said tag was remarkably unhelpful, as you don't indicate at all what inaccuracies were found. If you couldn't summarize it in the tag, then you could have pointed to a talk page discussion and outlined the problems there.

As to your original post on Biffa's talk page, every sentence contained what could be considered a personal attack. Phrases like "fatally flawed and not up to scratch" and "stop thinking your testing even approaches acceptable levels" are personal attacks, whether you intended them as such or not. "Each and every one of your pages has had to be altered" is demonstrably false. Those all violate the "serious accusations require serious evidence" clause. Several posts after the original, you provided two links as evidence. Were there issue there? Yes, certainly, but don't tell me that you accusing Biffa of "defiling" a page was a friendly, courteous post.

You say you weren't given a chance to explain yourself. This entire topic is the place to explain yourself. You've responded to various posts with a passive-aggressive tone and flippant edit summaries rather than chosing to explain yourself. If you feel you haven't fully explained yourself yet, or that we've all missed something somewhere, now is the time to bring it up.

Contrary to your accusations of following the party line, I think just about everyone who has responded here has looked at the recent history. If you have additional evidence to provide from before then, please do so, as we're not going to all go through hundreds or thousands of edits to figure out which ones you're referring to. The evidence from just before the time of the warning showed some near-edit-warring and some exchanges that could have gone better on ''both'' sides. Both of those take two people, and we're not unaware of that. This post isn't about Biffa, though.

In short, you're a patroller—as a staff member, you're expected to maintain a level head and professional demeanour as much as possible. We all fail at that sometimes—I'm certainly guilty of it, myself—but we need to try. Krusty put the idea forward that the two of you are butting heads because you're both working on Place pages in somewhat different ways. I certainly agree with that. If you have difficulty working with Biffa to develop guidelines and appropriate testing methodologies, then work with someone else. I suggested working with Krusty in my e-mail, since he's the most experienced with projects, but I'm certainly willing to act as a go-between, and I'm sure many others are as well. One way or another, though, this friction needs to end. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:04, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:{{ec}}Yes, it says personal attacks are grounds for a block, not a warning. There are no other options given, so the policy was incorrectly applied. In light of choosing not to block you must defer to wikipedia's policies on dealing with [[wikipedia:wikipedia:personal attacks|personal attacks]]. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:08, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:: To quote Wikipedia's page, ''"Lesser personal attacks often result in a warning".'' Unless you are arguing for a block instead per our own policy page, I don't see the issue here. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:13, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::I'm not really interested in finding a solution with Biffa anymore, just as no-one here was interested in hearing my side before passing judgement. Your comments on the tag are pointless and show bias, as many such tags contain unspecific concerns with the page they are on. Are you trying to quote me with "defiling", because I never used that word, which once again proves how people are happy to twist my words, and even make up words in this case, to support their claims. Not one substantial post here hasn't contained some untruth or twist of words attributed to me, so why should I deign those posts with a reply that might suggest there was any truth in their words. To claim my initial post contains nothing but personal attacks shows that no-one actually looked at the edit summaries. By all means Legoless, lets skip the entire section on dealing with personal attacks and quote the summation at the end of the article, I too can quote meaningless phrases out of context to support my arguments. "Accusing someone of making personal attacks without providing a justification for your accusation is also considered a form of personal attack." My claim was that Biffa's testing wasn't of sufficient standard to make the claim, which means that to provide justification you must believe that Biffa's testing is of sufficient standard to go unchallenged. And yes, I would rather a block than a warning, at least then you can claim to be a decent administrator because you won't be deliberately breaking a policy to enforce punishment on me for being able to answer questions better than yourself. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:30, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::Just to respond to the claim of quoting things not said, {{Pl|Skyrim talk:Irkngthand|diff=prev&oldid=1299079|search for "defile"}}. As Silencer has now been blocked for a week, I think this discussion is done with. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 23:09, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

{{Notice|align=center|'''This topic is now closed.'''}}

== Block Needed 3==

[[User:Casterwheels]]

Created their user page and talk page for advertising. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 01:54, 19 July 2014 (GMT)

:I'm on it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:57, 19 July 2014 (GMT)

== User Nominations ==

It's been two weeks since Quill-Tail was [[UESPWiki:Autopatrolled Users#Quill-Tail|nominated]] to be autopatrolled, and we've got 3 in favor with none against. Could an admin please close the vote? Thanks! [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 12:36, 23 July 2014 (GMT)

:Done! Also, I'm hijacking this topic a bit, so I've changed the title. Hope you don't mind.

:While we're on the topic of nominations, Dominus Arbitrationis has had a [[UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations|patroller nomination]] open for a week and so far, there's only been a single vote. I'd like to solicit more input before closing it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:48, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
::That was my thought as well. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 17:55, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Although if we are going to keep it open for more input, I'd prefer it if someone else actually provided some. It's been two weeks now, and I'm the only vote. If nobody else thinks the nomination is important enough to provide an opinion, the vote should be closed. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 12:49, 30 July 2014 (GMT)

== Block needed (4) ==

[[User:41.220.69.114]] [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 12:43, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
:Zapped! Thanks for the heads-up! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 12:45, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
::We might want to think about adjusting the spam filter somehow because this is the 2nd time in less than 12 hours that some spambot is talking about 'getting your ex back' with some 'spellcaster' or something. It may be a little tricky considering that magic and stuff is actually in TES, but something to think about. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 13:17, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Looking at this one and the one above, I don't see a lot of similarities. It may just have been a coincidence. I'll keep an eye out, though, and if we start getting more "caster" based contributions, I'll see what I can come up with. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:50, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
::::Just to be clear, the Block Needed section above is unrelated to what I'm talking about haha, Jeancey happened to be in the IRC when it happened so he took care of it last night. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 03:35, 24 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::Ah, yes, I see what you mean now. Eshe actually took care of yet another one last night just before Jeancey did. Since the words "spell caster" weren't an ideal match, I went for "my name is" followed by "spell cast" anywhere in the changes. That pattern appeared in all four. I'm hoping that by combining the two, new users won't run into any problems. "My name is" would be common enough on a user page, but hopefully not followed by "spell cast" until they're autoconfirmed. That particular pattern currently doesn't appear anywhere on the wiki. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:45, 24 July 2014 (GMT)

== Fair Use/Dealing on Images Taken From ES Sites ==

These should fall under United States copyright because while UESP is in Canada, the company the images are taken from (And thus the images themselves) are in the United States. When it comes to image copyright (For images we take off their sites), we need to use their fair use/dealing clause instead of the one our servers fall under. Changing this would not affect any screenshots, only images that we take directly from a Zenimax site. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 16:38, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

:The wiki does not come under US jurisdiction and cannot therefore use a US license because it has no validity in Canadian law, it must use a license that is valid in the country it is under the jurisdiction of. To make sense of this you must look where the website would be taken to court over any issues, and that would be Canada, thus the site needs to have established usage under Canadian law in order to protect itself against such eventualitys. While trying to decipher the meanings, definitions, and applicability of copyright law, the only thing that held any relevance was that images should also have a copy of the license that the image holds. As far as I am aware Bethesda and ZeniMax do not specifically license their images, relying on the copyright law alone to preserve their rights. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:24, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

::I was under the impression that because the images and the company that owns the copyright to them is in the US, we would have to use US laws for dealing with it. I got this impression from an email (From Dave) that stated: ''" Look in more detail Esimage would/should be US law as it deals specifically with images taken directly from an ES site (not screenshots as I mentioned in my last email) and those are all Zenimax owned content in the US.''". Of course, I could have been misinterpreting that, in which case, thank you for correcting me and pointing out my error, even indirectly. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 17:47, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

:::The wiki comes under Canadian jurisdiction because that's where the images are being used. To quote [[Wikipedia:Copyright|Wikipedia]], "Copyrights are said to be territorial, which means that they do not extend beyond the territory of a specific state unless that state is a party to an international agreement." We in Canada have signed such an agreement, but it's the rules of that agreement (which are incorporated into Canadian copyright law) that apply to us, not the original copyright law of the US. See: [http://copyright.ubc.ca/guidelines-and-resources/faq/basics/#1.14_How_does_copyright_work_internationally.3F How does copyright work internationally?] – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:21, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

== Patroller Nomination ==

It's been about 3 weeks since Dominus Arbitrationis put forth a [[UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations#Dominus Arbitrationis|nomination]] for patrollership, and in that time, there have been only 2 votes (both of which were oppose, and with a two-week interval between them). Seeing as how nobody else is weighing in, can we please get an administrator to close the vote? [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 13:05, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
:Done. Not an easy one to call consensus on, but I suppose that goes with the territory. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:26, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
::Yeah. I would have liked to get more input, but if nobody else cared enough to vote about it, we weren't doing Dom any favors by dragging it out. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 14:28, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

== De-Patrollership ==

I request removal of my patrolling rights, I do not want to be associated as a staff member of a site with Administrators who willing abuse their position. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:33, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:While this has generally been done without question previously, tensions are high right now, and I'd like to suggest waiting a few days to see if you feel the same. You have been a good patroller, and I'd rather not lose you as one over what should have been a relatively minor incident. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:42, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::This isn't a minor issue, and I'm not changing my mind. You can't deny me my right to voluntarily be demoted. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:46, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::: {{ec}} I didn't see a problem with immediate removal, although I believe a grace period is in order if The Silencer changes his mind in the coming days. @The Silencer, you still have blocker rights, and you'll need to ask Daveh to remove your abuseeditor rights. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:50, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
::::This might not be my place to comment, but given his actions in all this, I don't think he deserves a grace period. From the start, we've been saying he should keep his rights, and it's pretty clear by reading his edit summaries and his replies that he's actively trying to be banned. I really don't get his desire to try and claim the immoral victory, but it's his choice. We can't just pretend it didn't happen and give his rights back. That wouldn't be respecting his wishes, and it would be giving him undue preferential treatment. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 22:55, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::::{{ec}} Agreed. I don't have a problem with immediate removal either, I was just hoping that he'd be willing to give it a few days. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:56, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::::It's already done, in any case. Additionally, if The Silencer wishes to appeal his current block, he'll need to follow the steps outlined at [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks]]. I'm not available for the rest of the evening, so I'll have to leave it to someone else to assist with that if needed (and thanks in advance). ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 22:59, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

== Etiquette Policy Clarification - "Grounds for blocking" ==

I've edited the [[Project:Etiquette|Etiquette]] page to clarify that "grounds for blocking" does not mean "will be blocked". This has been a frequent misunderstanding in the past, and I thought it was time it was fixed. Since it's a policy page, and a topic that's ''just'' been brought up, I felt I should mention it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:47, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

== The Silencer's Block Appeal ==

Since Silencer is a big fan of following policy and procedure, I am linking his [[User Talk:The Silencer#Appeal|appeal]] on the AN. I doubt this is needed, but it is in line with policy. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 00:04, 6 August 2014 (GMT)

== Group Add/Remove Rights ==

Administrators already have the ability to add and remove people from several groups, including all the different types of patrollers, as well as blockers. I'd like to propose that they also have the ability to add or remove Map Users, Cartographers (map editors), and Abuse Filter editors, which are relatively benign permissions. Dave would then only need to be contacted to change the various administrative and bot rights. Does anyone have any concerns with this? I've already asked Dave, and he's fine with it, but I figured I should put it to the community as well. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:48, 6 August 2014 (GMT)
:I personally think this makes sense and have no issue with it. It seems like a tad too much to have to go to Dave to add/remove, like you said, benign positions. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 17:54, 6 August 2014 (GMT)
::I'm good with this. We don't have to change these user groups very often, but when we do it's usually pretty straightforward. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 18:10, 6 August 2014 (GMT)
:::It's a little soon compared to the normal approval period, but I had stuff to do on all our servers that indirectly related to this, so I made this change at the same time. Administrators should now have a bunch more groups they can add people to or remove them from. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:40, 6 August 2014 (GMT)

== Suspected vandals ==

For some reason these IPs keep editing the skyrim credits page. [[User:189.242.227.199]] and [[User:24.127.60.91]] I'm not sure, but I feel like they might need to get banned or something. I think they might be the same person on different IPs, but I can't know for sure. Me and a few other editors have undone 24.127.60.91 multiple times. Can an admin find out for sure? [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 08:08, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
:I've protected the page. I'm not going to do more right now, cause it is like 3 am and I can't focus all that well at the moment. I don't want to go accidentally blocking the wrong people. Hopefully the page protection takes care of it. Someone else can block those two, but if they are changing their IP intentionally, the page protection will stop them from editing that page. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 09:15, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
::Thank you! I've been doing my best to hold down the fort (so to speak) till someone could do something about it. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 09:19, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
:::Okay, both have been blocked for a week. I can't decide if it's a bot or not, so hopefully this will take care of it. Thanks, guys! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 12:33, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
::::You're welcome[[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 12:52, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

== Proposed Deletions ==

Just a note to the other admins that I'm the one who proposed all the older [[:Category:Proposed Deletion|Proposed Deletion]]s, so I can't delete them. Can someone else give them a look when they have a moment? Thanks! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:53, 8 August 2014 (GMT)
:I ''knew'' there was something I forgot to do today! I'm about to head to bed, actually, but I will look over these in the morning if someone else doesn't get them first. Thanks for the reminder! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 02:59, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

User talk:TheVoicesSayHi

2014-08-08T01:46:46Z

Eshe: /* Welcome! */ new section

== Welcome! ==

Hello TheVoicesSayHi! Welcome to UESPWiki! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

* '''[[UESPWiki:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]''': UESPWiki standards and expectations
* '''[[Help:Contents|Help Contents]]''': a list of in-depth Help pages
* '''[[Help:Quick Editing Guide|Quick Editing Guide]]''': a quick guide to wiki markup
* '''[[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]]''': how you can help
* '''[[Help:Images|Uploading Images]]''': Guidelines on image standardization

If you would like to spice up your [[Special:Mypage|userpage]], [[UESPWiki:Userboxes|click here]] for a list of userboxes you can use, including a guide to making your own.

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave [[Help:Edit Summary|edit summaries]] to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Also, the "[[Help:Show Preview|show preview]]" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|patrollers]] really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]] or discuss the games in the [[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]]. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]]. Have fun! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 01:46, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

User talk:RisingDusk

2014-08-07T23:06:29Z

Eshe: /* Nice work! */ new section

== Welcome! ==

Hello RisingDusk! Welcome to UESPWiki! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

* '''[[UESPWiki:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]''': UESPWiki standards and expectations
* '''[[Help:Contents|Help Contents]]''': a list of in-depth Help pages
* '''[[Help:Quick Editing Guide|Quick Editing Guide]]''': a quick guide to wiki markup
* '''[[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]]''': how you can help
* '''[[Help:Images|Uploading Images]]''': Guidelines on image standardization

If you would like to spice up your [[Special:Mypage|userpage]], [[UESPWiki:Userboxes|click here]] for a list of userboxes you can use, including a guide to making your own.

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave [[Help:Edit Summary|edit summaries]] to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Also, the "[[Help:Show Preview|show preview]]" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|patrollers]] really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]] or discuss the games in the [[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]]. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]]. Have fun! [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 15:50, 5 July 2014 (GMT)

== Nice work! ==

{{Gold Star|message=Man, it's great having new people who are willing to take on so many big tasks! You've been helpful all over the place, and that [[SR:Dwarven Automatons|Dwarven Automatons]] revamp is awesome. Keep up the great work. :) ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 23:06, 7 August 2014 (GMT)}}

User talk:Chrobry

2014-08-07T22:10:56Z

Eshe: /* Welcome! */ new section

== Welcome! ==

Hello Chrobry! Welcome to UESPWiki! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

* '''[[UESPWiki:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]''': UESPWiki standards and expectations
* '''[[Help:Contents|Help Contents]]''': a list of in-depth Help pages
* '''[[Help:Quick Editing Guide|Quick Editing Guide]]''': a quick guide to wiki markup
* '''[[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]]''': how you can help
* '''[[Help:Images|Uploading Images]]''': Guidelines on image standardization

If you would like to spice up your [[Special:Mypage|userpage]], [[UESPWiki:Userboxes|click here]] for a list of userboxes you can use, including a guide to making your own.

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave [[Help:Edit Summary|edit summaries]] to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Also, the "[[Help:Show Preview|show preview]]" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|patrollers]] really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]] or discuss the games in the [[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]]. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]]. Have fun! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 22:10, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard

2014-08-07T12:33:16Z

Eshe: /* Suspected vandals */ reply

User talk:24.127.60.91

2014-08-07T12:31:57Z

Eshe:

== Advice ==

{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this IP address will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 05:36, 7 August 2014 (GMT)}}

== Warning ==

{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this IP address will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 05:58, 7 August 2014 (GMT)}}

== Blocked ==
{{Blocked|1=This IP address has been '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing UESPWiki for repeatedly [[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalizing]] the site, despite being warned to stop. If you wish to [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks|appeal the block]], you may make your request on your talk page, which you can still edit even while being blocked. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 12:31, 7 August 2014 (GMT)}}

User talk:189.242.227.199

2014-08-07T12:31:52Z

Eshe:

== Warning ==

{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this IP address will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 08:10, 7 August 2014 (GMT)}}

== Warning 2 ==

{{Warning|1=Please do not add nonsense to UESPWiki, as it is considered to be '''[[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalism]]'''. If you continue to abuse your editing privileges, this IP address will be '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing. Please consider improving the work of others, not harming it. [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 08:19, 7 August 2014 (GMT)}}

== Blocked ==
{{Blocked|1=This IP address has been '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing UESPWiki for repeatedly [[UESPWiki:Vandalism|vandalizing]] the site, despite being warned to stop. If you wish to [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks|appeal the block]], you may make your request on your talk page, which you can still edit even while being blocked. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 12:31, 7 August 2014 (GMT)}}

User:Eshe/Talk Header

2014-08-06T19:02:19Z

Eshe: updating archives + search box of fanciness

<div style="float:right">
{| cellpadding="8" cellspacing="5" style="width: 160px; background-color: #C7462C; border: 0px solid #696969; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); vertical-align: top; margin-left:10px;"
|-
| style="background-color: #fff; border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: #DCDCDC; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); vertical-align: top; text-align:center;"|
⇣ '''ARCHIVES'''
{{showhide|header='07-'10|
|[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 1|June - July 2007]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 2|Aug -Sep 2007]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 3|Oct - Nov 2007]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 4|Dec - Jan 2008]] 
[[User talk:Eshe/Archive 5|February 2008]] 
[[User talk:Eshe/Archive 6|Mar - Dec 2008]] 
[[User talk:Eshe/Archive 7|Jun - Jul 2009]] 
[[User talk:Eshe/Archive 8|Aug - Sep 2009]] 
[[User talk:Eshe/Archive 9|Oct - Dec 2009]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 10|Jan - Apr 2010]]}}
{{showhide|header=2012|
|[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 11|Mar - April 2012]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 12|May - Jul 2012]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 13|Sep - Oct 2012]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 14|Nov - Dec 2012]]}}
{{showhide|header=2013|
|[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 15|Jan - Feb 2013]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 16|Mar - Apr 2013]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 17|May - Aug 2013]] 
[[User Talk:Eshe/Archive 18|Oct - Dec 2013]]}}
{{#tag:inputbox|
type=fulltext
prefix={{FULLPAGENAME}}/
width=10
searchbuttonlabel=Search}}
|}</div>{{TOCright}}
{{NewLeft}}

User talk:Eshe

2014-08-06T19:01:50Z

Eshe: archiving oct-dec 2013

{{User:Eshe/Tabs}}{{User:Eshe/Talk Header}}
== Just saying hello ==

Hello Eshe, I'm not sure if you remember MMOxSkrillBuscus, But this is him, I was wanting to talk to you as soon as i can. So when you get a chance to talk let me know ok? Thanks!! :) {{uns|MCSkyCraft|03:02, 5 January 2014}}
:Eshe hasn't been active on the wiki in quite some time. If there's a problem you need to discuss with someone, you might be better off talking to one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor_Program|mentors.]] [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 13:41, 5 January 2014 (GMT)
::Actually, she was just active three days ago. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:20, 5 January 2014 (GMT)
:::Hi there! I'm kind of semi-active at the moment, as work allows, but I'm doing my best to keep an eye on my talk page and can always be reached by email (if you prefer). So...talk away! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 15:09, 7 January 2014 (GMT)

== Happy Birthday! ==

Happy birthday, Eshe! --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 15:48, 7 January 2014 (GMT)

:Happy birthday! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:27, 7 January 2014 (GMT)
::Happy birthday, and stay warm! [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 19:03, 7 January 2014 (GMT)
:::Awww, thanks guys! Happy is easy...it's the warm part that's tricky these days. It's ''absurdly'' cold here! I spent a good part of my morning just trying to seal up doors and windows (towels and duct tape—who knew?). I'm officially an Eshecicle :P. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 23:08, 7 January 2014 (GMT)
::::Hey Eshecicle, a belated Happy Birthday to you!! :) [[User:Holomay|Holomay]] ([[User talk:Holomay|talk]]) 09:49, 8 January 2014 (GMT)
{{od}} Despite what I say about you being a good friend, I mist not be a good friend in return if I am replying late to this after you said what your birthday was the other day. In any case, happy birthday, my dear friend! :) -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|xoxo]] 18:35, 8 January 2014 (GMT)
:Yeah, geez, you're the ''worst'', Damon. lol :P
:Thanks you guys :). ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 15:29, 9 January 2014 (GMT)

== Guaranteed Magic Items ==

I just stole you sandbox and published it wholescale. The page was lacking in our ensemble of item pages and I felt enough time had passed without it. I added a wip tag to the top for your sandbox to discourage your wrath (and perhaps encourage a fresh attempt to finish it :p). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 11:31, 1 February 2014 (GMT)

== Removed SR:Traps WIP tag ==

Since it's been about two months since your last edit, and many months since any edits to your sandbox related to [[SR:Traps]], I've pulled the WIP tag you've left behind so that someone else can have a stab at the page if they desired. Or, you can whenever you return. Take care, Eshe! :) -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 02:13, 29 March 2014 (GMT)

== Welcome back! ==

Good to see you're rejoining the fold! [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 13:29, 12 July 2014 (GMT)
:Welcome back, my friend! It's good to know things are going so well for you right now. I've missed you and it's going to be awesome to see your name pop back up across the wiki again! -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 14:58, 12 July 2014 (GMT)
::Thanks, guys! It's good to be back (and good to have ''time'' to be back, ugh). Let the sandboxing begin! :P ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 14:05, 16 July 2014 (GMT)
:::You're alive! Hooray! I'm not really around a whole lot these days, but it's great to see your name around here again. :) — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 19:52, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

User talk:Eshe/Archive 18

2014-08-06T19:01:44Z

Eshe: archiving oct-dec 2013

{{Archive Header|none}}

== Just a reminder ==

[[User_talk:Kharay]], thanks in advance. -- [[Special:Contributions/83.128.170.121|83.128.170.121]] 16:10, 12 October 2013 (GMT)

:Just a note that, per [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:User pages#Deletion of user talk pages|Wikipedia's guidelines]], talk pages are generally not deleted, although administrators have the discretion to do so if there's a strong reason to. Personally, I see no strong reason either to keep or delete, but in accordance with Wikipedia's guidelines (which we use when we don't have anything specific of our own), I've gone ahead and blanked the page, which I think is a good middle ground. It's pretty rare that people bother to go through page histories unless there's good reason to do so. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:59, 12 October 2013 (GMT)

== show/hide function ==

Could you please help me I'm currently updating stub places in Solsteim and I have currently in my Biffa/sandbox/2 the first few visits for Kolbjorn Barrow, but thought it would be best done with show/hide coding for the info of what is where at different visits. This is not something I've attempted before and don't know or understand the coding needed, could you help either replying here with suggested coding or on the talk page for the relevant sandbox. Your help much appreciated. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 13:35, 22 November 2013 (GMT)
:Eshe's not been active for a while now. Feel free to forward any issues to me, and I'll help you. :)

:Anyway, Showhide is like this:
:<code><nowiki>{{Showhide|Sample Paragraph|Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.}}</nowiki></code>

:And that creates this:

{{Showhide|Sample Paragraph|Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.}}

:Simple -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|xoxo]] 15:25, 22 November 2013 (GMT)

== Mentoring ==

Hey! So, since you've been basically inactive on the wiki since July, I've removed you from the [[UESPWiki:Mentor_Program|mentor]] list for now. Just wanted to inform you. Hope you go back on the list once you're back, and I hope you have a great December and holiday season :) '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 03:26, 7 December 2013 (GMT)

== SR:Traps should mention the tentacles from Apocrypha? ==

Hello! Just wanted to say, if you're still working on the Skyrim traps page, I think that the tentacles that reach out of the water to slap you in Apocrypha would fit in. They aren't really enemies, and they have the bug where they can give you diseases even if you're supposed to be immune, so I think that it fits. [[User:Quantheory|Quantheory]] ([[User talk:Quantheory|talk]]) 06:21, 31 December 2013 (GMT)

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2014-08-06T18:10:43Z

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Skyrim talk:A Night To Remember

2014-08-06T17:05:10Z

Eshe: /* Can't give the ring to Ysolda */ unsigned

== Bug ==
Got an unusual bug in this quest, when talking to Ennis in Rorikstead he normally sends you to go collect his goat, however a random Dragon attack in the general area caused the goat to flee back to Rorikstead on it's own. Even though I hadn't started this part of the quest Ennis thanked me for returning the goat and told me about the staff but the quest marker stayed stuck above Ennis until I got the Wedding Ring back and then both parts of the quest were marked as completed. Playing on the Xbox 360. --[[Special:Contributions/94.0.136.98|94.0.136.98]] 19:26, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

==Not A Bug? (Spoiler)==
The page lists that the "random" items are a bug but when I did the quest all the trash I picked up were the items needed for the "ritual" to restore the staff. --[[Special:Contributions/173.18.71.33|173.18.71.33]] 00:44, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:This quest works HEAVILY with radiant story. There are lots of different parts of the quest but each player will only see a few of them with each play through. For example, restoring the staff was never mentioned when i played, and when i got to the end, it didn't need to be restored. The items still showing for players who do not need them is probably a bug. [[User:Innovacious|Innovacious]] 08:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::Well I wasn't sure it was a bug that is why the heading on this section has the question mark after it since I hoped someone with a PC copy of the game that can understand if that was a bug or intended behavior. FYI I am playing the 360 version. --[[Special:Contributions/173.18.71.33|173.18.71.33]] 19:55, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== cant start ==

im not blacking out after completeing sams drinking game {{uns2|04:30, 17 November 2011‎|24.177.231.77}}
:I too can not start the quest for i dont pass out after drinking how do I fix this? {{uns2|02:28, 24 November 2011‎|67.55.159.73}}
::-Alto wine and giants toe glitch? after completing the quest i cant use/drop alto wine or giants toe because they're noted as quest items? {{uns2|10:17, 23 August 2013|5.70.61.72}}

== Another (or one at last) Bug? ==

I just got this quest and it shaped up to be the fastest quest ever (In the end it isn't): Got my fill, woke up in Dibella's temple in Markrath. The priestess talks to me, I get the command to help clean up which immediately - meaning before I can even choose an option of speech or persuasion or whatever - is marked as solved and I should go to Rorikstead. There I find the goat searcher, who as immediately points me to Ysolda in Whiterun before I did more than just starting the conversation (there was still dialogue though). Ysolda then at least said a sentence or two before I got a new quest marker telling me I should go someplace to find my wedding ring which immediately again was "solved" and I should now go to another place. I have no idea of the first place's name, since it was on the screen for all of 4 seconds with Ysolda talking, and disappeared from the quest journal (or never entered it). Now I'm stuck because this place is in an area (close to W'helm) where I cannot venture without getting killed, so no idea how it will continue. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.176.90|93.232.176.90]] 03:18, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

== Sanguine hanging out after the quest ==
After the completion of the quest, at least in my experience, Sanguine just stands around in Morvunskar. You can't really talk to him, but he's there in the room with the portal. Furthermore, the portal extends into a treasure room below the actual portal, which means you can't get close enough to the treasure chest and lockbox without getting teleported. For PC players, just use the console to noclip to a hidden door underground at the misty grove. [[User:Roland Thompson|Roland Thompson]] 07:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, you can get close enough to get the chest and lockbox, just hug the wall on one side and inch forward until you can reach it... I saved and took me a couple of tries, but I was able to loot them. [[User:Vilhazarog|Vilhazarog]] 17:28, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

::Anyone knows refid of the warp point to disable it with console? Got the bubble id, it's 732c9, but the portal doesn't seems to be affected by it. {{uns2|14:50, 17 December 2011‎|159.224.131.168}}

== Companion Bug (?) ==
I started this quest with Janessa as companion. She wasnt in the temple and even fast traveling back and waiting for 7 days straight did not make her appear again. She is still marked as my companion tho. {{uns2|15:04, 21 November 2011|72.184.223.155}}

== Eyebrows ==

Could someone double check that when blacking out by Sam's drink makes you lose your eyebrows after waking up? {{uns2|01:43, 22 November 2011‎|110.55.131.188}}

:I can confirm that my Nord has his eyebrows intact! --[[User:Chiliflamingo|Chiliflamingo]] 21:54, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

== Moria ==
I found Moria while exploring after being told to go to Morvunskar by Ysolda. This resulted in Moria having no dialogue options, nor taking any actions...she just stood outside of her hut. --[[User:Aphotic Phoenix|Aphotic Phoenix]] 07:08, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Didn't have to return goat ==

Ysolda found me in Whiterun and pointed me directly to Witchmist Grove. Went to Ennis and I couldn't even get the goat quest. Went straight to Witchmist Grove. {{uns2|20:11, 27 November 2011‎|64.92.18.121}}

:Same thing happened to me. I payed to the priestess to clean the mess in the Temple of Mara, then in Whiterun I bumped into Ysolda, she mentioned something about her ring but I didn't know what she was talking about. I left the quest for a while and when at some point I checked my quest journal it pointed me to Morvunskar, where I lowered the difficulty after dying a few times to the mages so there were no enemies at all, walked straight into the portal and recieved Sanguine's Rose. No goat chasing, no hagraven, nothing. I also haven't met with the argonian whom I own 10.000 septims. {{uns2|22:49, 21 January 2013|86.101.32.61}}

== Won't Pass out no matter how many times I reload. ==

I've tried everything. Reloading, Restarting the xbox, cleaning the disk and nothing. I've actually done the drinking part of the quest 7 times on one character. I watched my Wife do this quest on her character, using the same disk, same xbox even same type of character, And she was able to start and complete it. The only difference is, I'm further than her in the story (I already beat the game.) I can't think of anything to get this quest started. Please, is there anyone who can help? {{uns2|11:17, 28 November 2011|97.126.36.49}}

:I have the same problem, and I'm wondering if there's some kind of a workaround. This is quite frustrating, seeing as I've had at least one of the daedric quests bug out on me on each character... I just want the Oblivion Walker achievement! --[[User:Mikeyy|Mikeyy]] 18:01, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

::I won't pass out i've tried loads but I just won't passout I don't know whats wrong {{uns2|20:02, 23 January 2012|78.144.90.7}}

== No need to clean up ==

The clean-up quest is automatically completed if I choose the persuade option, either right after waking up, or after asking about a man named Sam.
I only found a giant's toe, two wine bottles, Sam's note, but no feather. {{uns2|07:25, 29 November 2011|71.132.220.61}}
:Me, too. I chose two times with two chars the clean-up option (no persuasion or so) and in both play-throughs I didn't find the feather. 4 quest markers to 2 bootles, 1 note and 1 toe. This time I added the feather via console, but it's '''not''' a quest item, I can drop it. Just wondering… -- [[User:CompleCCity|CompleCCity]] ([[User talk:CompleCCity|talk]])

== Sequence break ==

It's possible to massively sequence break this quest, and without even meaning to. After starting the quest by accident, and leaving the temple, I ignored it in favor of exploring, and stumbled over Moira at one point. Killing her and looting the ring advanced it to returning the ring, skipping over everything up to this point, including cleaning the temple. {{uns2|06:06, 30 November 2011‎|108.12.193.10}}

== Ysolda dead before quest has been started ==

Just wanted to note that I have not started this questchain at all, and a courier found me in Whiterun to let me know that Ysolda died and had left me 100 gold. I am not sure how she died or how this will affect the quest once I begin it. I had completed her quest to get her mammoth tusks. Playing on PC. {{uns2|23:28, 30 November 2011‎|84.203.34.103}}

== The Argonian and the 10,000 debt. ==

So I met with the Argonian who asks you to pay him the 10,000 coins you and Sanguine "owe" him. I said that I didn't have the money, and "persuaded" him to lower it to 750 coins. In other words it is NOT necessarily the case that he will "attack you on site" if you refuse the initial offer. I opted to pay the 750 coins and he walked away. There were several other dialogue options I didn't try, including an additional "pay nothing" Persuasion option and an Intimidation option. Didn't realize that this was still unreported on this site....otherwise I would've saved and tried them all to see what happened :/. {{uns2| 20:39, 6 December 2011‎|207.166.120.130}}

== Anybody else get a hat from the Argonian? ==

As I recall, when I got the staff from Sanguine he mentioned something about a hat. During the run to Kynesgrove for the main quest Deep-In-His-Cups caught up to me and I persuaded him, getting the hat for 750 gold, but after taking it back to Sanguine I am not getting any dialogue etc. I did the Sanguine quest a while ago, so can anybody confirm the hat is for him? {{uns2|09:57, 10 December 2011‎|Ashvelvyn}}
:No, you don't bring the hat to Sanguine. The hat is yours to do with as you please. It's just a random encounter that will occur sometime after the quest.[[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]] 19:21, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

== Don't Go In As A Werewolf ==

I went into Misty Grove as a werewolf and Sanguine and all his friends attacked me on sight. I reloaded a save that was back at the entrance of Misty Grove, waited out my werewolf transformation, went to Sanguine and he gave me the staff. ([[Special:Contributions/99.136.224.214|99.136.224.214]] 19:16, 17 December 2011 (UTC))

== persuade option.. ==

i used the pusuade option for all the dialogue parts and missed all of the collect ring etc. parts so i was wondering... dou you get rewards for those parts of the quest or is it just extra fun? also in my opinion this is the most random quest in the game... {{uns2|13:00, 26 December 2011‎|124.189.147.61}}
:No, you don't get any extra rewards, other than (I assume) the experience towards Speechcraft. I didn't choose any persuade options, so I suppose there's a chance you don't get experience for these, but I can't imagine why not. [[User:Obax|Obax]] 23:19, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

::One thing that you get(if the game doesn't bug) is reveng. Ever steal from Anise's cabin? Get hired thugs sent after you by an unknown character called Moira? You get to meet and fight her in this quest. {{uns2|13:00, 19 January 2013‎|Festuskreux}}

== Can't clean the temple? ==

I found the giant's toe and the two wine bottles, but the other items are nowhere to be found. I even stole every object in the temple, and the priestess still says I need to clean up before she'll help me. Has anyone else had this problem? Did the items fall through the bottom of the world, or what? {{uns|98.248.161.17|09:25, December 27, 2011}}

:I have this same problem. I found exactly the three objects you mentioned, but no others. Eventually I looked up the quest because I couldn't figure out how to progress the "cleaning up" bit and found it's bugged. Any solutions? {{uns|74.137.93.73|19:26, January 3, 2012}}

::Reloading a save (probably from when you entered the bar to meet Sam) seems to be the only known solution right now. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]] 21:49, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

:::Same for me - found only Giant's Toe and 2 wine bottles. Had "A Daedra's Best Friend" quest active at the time and Barbas (the dog) as a follower. Quicksaved before starting the quest. On failure, reload and asking Barbas to "stay" (before starting quest) - same result. Will try starting this quest again after finishing "A Daedra's Best Friend". May be too late, as I got the "invitation" before quicksaving. [[User:Hannibal Smith|Han]] 21:07, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

== Sam vanishes right before giving the staff. ==

On the PC version, the quest works fine for me up until the very end, when I meet Sam in Misty Grove.
He greets me, and I tell him I have all the things I need to repair the staff.. He then proceeds to tell me I can "throw all hose out. You see..."

And then he vanishes. Leaving me behind with the quest objective complete, but the quest itself not actually being completed. Using the console to advance the quest stage doesn't work and using a placeatme command after Sam vanishes results in the same dialogue, but instead of teleporting, the conversation repeats endlessly.{{unsigned|83.128.105.75|09:16, 28 December 2011}}

:FIX: It appears Sam changes into Sanguine right after this, but for some reason, he's not showing up. To fix it, use the player.placeatme command with Sanguine's BaseID and talk to him.{{unsigned|83.128.105.75|09:27, 28 December 2011}}

::Same problem (PC). I used the persuade option for all previous parts of the quest, however once I located Sam in Misty Grove, he disappears without giving me the staff or porting me out of Misty Grove. The quest objective "Search Morvunskar for Sam and the Staff" is completed, and I'm left with the objective "Find the Staff."
::I tried placing Sam at me using his base id, which as mentioned, results in repeating dialogue. I tried moving myself to Sam using his ref ID, which did nothing. I placed Sanguine at me using the staff's base id, but only the staff appeared (not Sam), and that didn't update the quest (despite having staff in hand) or port me out of Misty Grove.
::Attempts to advance the quest also failed (I tried resetquest DA14 as well as setstage DA14 200). I also couldn't use Clairvoyance while in Misty Grove (was told there was no active quest, despite A Night to Remember being active with the objective "Find the Staff").
::I reloaded and tried the entire quest again; cleaned the temple, found the goat, returned the ring, but the end result was the same.{{unsigned|24.11.85.95|04:46, 10 February 2012}}

:::Same here. Sam says his bit then disappears, leaving me stuck in Misty Grove without the staff. {{uns2|03:25, 16 February 2012|71.205.106.79}}

::::This is terrible, same here. I CANT FINISH THE QUEST, SOMEONE HELP!!!! {{uns2|21:54, 16 February 2012‎|76.101.223.51}}

{{od}} Thanks - player.placeatme 0002E1F2 solved it for me. {{uns2|12:13, 19 February 2012|80.71.135.35}}

:I had the same problem, but the console command "player.placeatme 0002E1F2" solved the problem; Sanguine appeared and the quest continued. {{uns2|13:42, 4 March 2012|72.66.64.34}}

== SORRY ==

I CANT APOLIGIZE TO LADY IN TEMPLE {{uns2|14:38, 31 December 2011‎|96.248.59.41}}

== Ysolda "Bug" and Other Routes ==

This page twice describes the way in which Ysolda can direct you straight to Morvunskar as a bug but I don't think it is - there's a quest stage created specifically for that option (135). Speaking of which, there seem to be many different ways through this quest that we're not mentioning. Some of the bugs we list are obviously bugs but it seems we're missing some important points here. [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]] •[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]• 15:00, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
:I kinda skipped a few stages of this quest. After Cleaning the Temple, I completely skipped Rorikstead by talking to Ysolda. Persuading Ysolda led me to Morvunskar and Sanguine, finishing the quest. Later in game I stumble across Moira the Hagraven, who is nonhostile and has no dialogue.[[Special:Contributions/107.10.210.65|107.10.210.65]] 16:56, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

==Not a bug: Marriage is not an inheritance requirement==
Another "Not a Bug" in this article, the comment about if Ysolda dies you receive an inheritance. As near as I can tell, you can get an inheritance from any NPC that likes you enough (after their death). For instance, the female Nord in armor in the inn in whiterun gives me an inheritance when I kill her. And I haven't married anyone. (she just likes me cause I beat her in a fist fight). (PC) -- MeateaW {{uns2|11:43, 16 January 2012|115.64.167.220}}

== Return the Ring. ==

If you head to Witchmist Grove without having to find the Wedding Ring for Ysolda, (ie. Intimidate or Persuade otherwise) and you kill Moira and take the ring, this leaves a marker above Ysolda. Yet having finished your previous conversation with her, no text/speak prompts show for you to return the ring.

Completion of the quest removes the objective marker from Ysolda, but the ring remains in your inventory, unremovable.

At the completion of the whole quest, the Wedding ring is still a lootable object from Moira, who is unresponsive and non-hostile. Upon killing her and taking the ring, it is also locked into your inventory, as it is marked as a quest item. {{uns2|13:51, 1 February 2012|121.215.0.16}}

:[EDIT:] Reloading the quicksave from Misty Grove, I was able to remove the ring from my inventory after completion of the test. {{uns2|01:27, 2 February 2012|121.215.0.16}}

== The Illusive Sam... ==

I realize he can be found in ine of the pubs but I'm wondering if his location is fixed once the quest becomes available or does he float around like the Kajiit trading caravan? I've been to the taverns/inns in the major cities but he has yet to appear. --[[User:Asmodean|Asmodean]] 00:09, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
:I believe he's fixed once he appears, so if you popped into an inn somewhere and he was there but you missed him, he'll still be there. -[[User:Vardis|Vardis]] 22:15, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
::Yep, he stays put. I've met him in Windhelm, and 25 levels later he's still there, challenging me to a drink. [[User:Wolok gro-Barok|Wolok gro-Barok]] 22:19, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

== You can fight Grok without killing him ==

He goes friendly again after you beat him into the mercy position.--[[User:RumblePen|RumblePen]] 02:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
:Is there any advantage to doing this, other than a general sense of goodwill towards giants? [[User:Obax|Obax]] 23:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

== Second chance? ==

When I first found Sam, he asked me if I wanted to drink and I refused at the time because I was in the middle of something else. Will he ever reappear so I can do this quest? {{uns|74.67.187.7|09:59, March 12, 2012}}
:I imagine he'll remain at the tavern where you first encountered him until you accept the offer. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 10:01, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
:: I can confirm this. Once you refuse, you can come back and start the quest. [[User:Agide|Agide]] 22:51, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

== Priestesses Attack on sight ==

As soon as my toon wakes up, a priestess asks him "what are you doing here?", and they all immediately attack. No chance is given to talk with them. {{uns2|04:47, April 1, 2012|68.102.43.250}}
:Have you committed a crime in Markarth? Have you tried reloading a previous save and redoing the drinking contest? --'''[[User:Velyanthe|Velyanthe]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►Talk]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►Email]] 15:28, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

== Duplicate Bug ==

*''After completing Drink with Sam, you will not blackout and the console command <code>setstage</code> command to advance the quest.
** {{Pc22}} ''You need to resurrect certain quest characters: Ysolda, Ennis and Senna. Each one of them must be alive to start the quest. From the console, to resurrect Ennis, for example, you can use: {{Pre|width=auto|<nowiki>prid 1CB2B
enable
resurrect 1
moveto player</nowiki>}}Change the ID number after the prid command to <code>1A69A</code> if you need to resurrect Ysolda, or <code>263CD</code> for Senna. You must be outside of any buildings.''
*''After having your third drink with Sam, the screen will sometimes not black out and you will not be transported to the Temple, thus rendering the quest unobtainable. This happens if you kill Ysolda before drinking with Sam. --fixed with 1.5''

Does 1.5 fix the issue with Ennis and Senna? If so, I think the two bugs should be completely merged... if not, does anyone have any good ideas on how to merge these two? Would it be good to merge them, if only one character's death is fixed by the patch? --'''[[User:Velyanthe|Velyanthe]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►Talk]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►Email]] 21:03, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

== No Ennis ==

I tried restarting and reloading older saves and I can't get Ennis to appear when I enter Rorikstead.{{unsigned|76.125.180.236|22:09, 6 May 2012}}
:He is not essential so he might have died. Where does the quest arrow point to? [[User:Wolok gro-Barok|Wolok gro-Barok]] 17:18, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

== The goat, giant and Moira didn't spawn. ==

I was a bit mortified with this. There was just an arrow where they should be. I was able to persuade Ennis and Ysolda but I was looking forward to meeting Moira. Maybe reverse pickpocket the contract she took out on me, leave and wait for 24 hours, return to challenge.
Anyone else get this bug where they just don't spawn. {{uns|Festuskreux|13:05, 19 January 2013‎}}
:If you persuade Ennis and Ysolda to give you the next location without having to rescue the goat or return the ring, then you don't get the giant and Moira. It's an either-or split. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 11:20, 10 April 2013 (GMT)

== Weird map glitch ==

If you look up the world map before leaving the Temple of Dibella, you will notice that the game still places you inside whichever bar you were drinking with Sam/Sanguine at. This is fixed as soon as you walk through the door into Markarth. It doesn't really affect anything as far as I know so I'm not sure it belongs on the main page, but there you go. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 12:45, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

== Entering Markarth for the first time? ==

Can anyone confirm whether entering Markarth for the first time via this quest (ie. through the temple doors rather than through the market gates) interferes with the Forsworn Conspiracy starting? {{uns|86.138.126.26|22:10, 27 March 2013}}

:It does not. I entered Markarth the first time by starting the quest with my very first character, more than a year ago, and nearly all the others after that. It never interfered with the Forsworn Conspiracy, just make sure you go to the market. [[User:Elakyn|Elakyn]] ([[User talk:Elakyn|talk]]) 22:40, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

::It does however allow you to skip the Forsworn Conspiracy on your first visit to Markarth, and if you visit the palace, you have a fast-travel destination inside Markarth that doesn't trigger the attack on Margret. However you can't go to either the Silver-Blood Inn, the jeweller, or the general store without triggering the attack. --[[User:Morrolan|Morrolan]] ([[User talk:Morrolan|talk]]) 11:23, 10 April 2013 (GMT)

== The Hangover? ==
I'm talking seriously: may this mission be inspired by the 2009 film "The Hangover"? You get drunk, then you wake up in an unknown place and you have to locate your missing friend. The temple is a mess just as the Caesars Palace room. You find out that you're engaged with someone and you have to locate a wedding ring. Coincidences? --[[User:Badinetor|Badinetor]] ([[User talk:Badinetor|talk]]) 20:26, 11 July 2013 (GMT)
:We don't add easter eggs to individual gamespace articles, but see the [[SR:Easter Eggs|Easter Eggs]] page. — [[User:Alphabetface|ABCface]][[User_talk:Alphabetface|◥]] 20:27, 11 July 2013 (GMT)

== Glenda attacks ==

I had a common mod installed that adds the ruined village of Amber Guard, which is held by a bandit gang, and is very close to where the giant and Glenda pass. So, when I arrived to get Glenda back, I found myself the third part of a three-way mixup between the giant, the bandits, and myself -- the bandits succeeded in putting down the giant, but had very little fight left in them afterwards. When all the bandits were dead, I approached Glenda to lead her back, only to find that she was showing up on the compass as an enemy, and refused to move. The only mood-altering spell I had was Courage, and when I cast it on Glenda, she promptly attacked me. I managed to tease her back to her master by taking advantage of her attacks on me, but when I finished my dialog with him and tried to leave, Glenda pursued me. I finally lost her out in the plains somewhere. [[Special:Contributions/174.6.51.17|174.6.51.17]] 09:34, 25 July 2013 (GMT)

:I also use the Amber Guard mod, but I did not run into any problems with it... Have you tried yielding to Glenda? -- [[User:SarthesArai|SarthesArai]] [[User Talk:SarthesArai|Talk]] 10:41, 25 July 2013 (GMT)

== Married to Senna ==

If you are married to Senna, does this prevent you from receiving the quest? I have yet to find Sam at Level 38.

== Bugs Cleanup ==

*After you have spoken to Ennis and agreed to retrieve Gleda, it is possible that neither Gleda nor the giant will appear in the designated area.
*Using the "Persuade" option during dialogues in this quest may cause parts of the quest to skip ahead, leaving other parts unfinishable. Specifically, if you use the "Persuade" option instead of collecting the trash in the Temple of Dibella, the trash will remain a quest item, which will be stuck permanently in your inventory if you pick it up.
**{{Pc22}} To fix this, load a save before entering the Grove, enter <code>resetquest DA14</code> and do the quest over, making sure not to skip any parts. Sam may be bugged; if so, complete the given section of the quest via <code>setstage DA14 <stage></code>.
*Even if you don't collect the ingredients to repair the staff, the dialogue option saying that you found all of the items may appear.
*Once in Misty Grove, Sam may attack you on sight. Since he is immortal, he cannot be killed. You may have to load a past save file.
*If playing a female character, Ysolda's references to your "fiancée" switch back and forth between 'him' and 'her', though it will always be the (female) hagraven, Moira.
*Sometimes when you kill Moira she will not have the wedding ring in her inventory.
*Sam may disappear on you mid-sentence and nothing happens, so you're stuck in Misty Grove.
**{{pc22}} Spawn Sanguine by typing <code>player.placeatme 0002E1F3</code> in the console.

Big list of unconfirmed bugs removed from the page, plus one about Sanguine Rose removed completely as its not related to the quest. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 00:06, 14 October 2013 (GMT)

== oops... ==

after waking up the priestess lady walked up to me and did her dialogue but instead of picking something I accidentally backed out and I cant get back to the dialogue now to move forward in the quest. I have no markers on my map but the quest is still there. any ideas? btw, I'm on Xbox.[[User:Fyjorki|Fyjorki]] ([[User talk:Fyjorki|talk]]) 11:56, 22 January 2014 (GMT) Fyjorki
:Try cleaning up the miscellaneous items like you failed the speech test. That's probably the default result. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 05:11, 15 January 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for the tip, but I was even more stupid by leaving, but she hadn't said anything about cleaning so I just didn't. luckily by looking around on this page I saw a way to update quest to the death of the hagraven.[[User:Fyjorki|Fyjorki]] ([[User talk:Fyjorki|talk]]) 11:56, 22 January 2014 (GMT) Fyjorki

== Portal Glitch ==

Not a serious glitch, but if one hovers close to the Misty Grove portal Morvunskar so that the message "To Misty Grove" can be seen, then reloads another save without game exit, the words "To Misty Grove" are still seen in the middle of the screen. All player interactions are unaffected- e.g approach a door so that "Open Door" appears. Open it, or move away from it, "To Misty Grove" replaces the "Open Door" text. However, quitting the game entirely and reloading a save that isn't in a location adjacent to the portal, "To Misty Grove" is no longer displayed.--[[User:Lmstearn|Lmstearn]] ([[User talk:Lmstearn|talk]]) 16:32, 17 January 2014 (GMT)

== New Bug ==

This has to be the buggiest quest in the game. I woke up in the temple, picked up the trash, but can't apologize to the priestess. In Rolikstead, I never got to talk to Ennis, because a dragon showed up. Before I defeated it, two more dragons with different styles showed up... one was a fire-breather, and one might have been Auduin because all hell broke loose... fire, a meteor storm, ''cats and dogs sleeping together... real wrath-of-god stuff.'' (my nod to Harold Ramis; rest in peace.) Afterwards, there was no Ennis, no nearby giant, no goat. I got back on track when Yolanda sends me after the ring, and all is well until I meet up with Sanguine. Dialog goes smoothly, he sez 'time to send you back'... and I get booted from game. Has happened three times now. I'm guessing the only way to resolve it is to back out of Misty grove ''before I talk to Sanguine'' and use the console to complete the quest. {{uns2|02:09, 14 March 2014‎| 76.231.30.39}}
:That's a pretty serious glitch. Have you installed the final Official Skyrim Patch? Do you have any 3rd party mods installed, other than the USKP? Even seemingly unrelated mods can cause very odd behavior. If you don't have the USKP installed, I would highly recommend you install it.

:You could also try reloading from before you ever talked to Sam, and advance at least 1 quest in the main questline and try starting it again. The presence of Alduin-type effects makes me suspect that you are experiencing an interaction between this quest and the main questline. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 03:11, 14 March 2014 (GMT)
::That dragon stuff sounds a very lot like [http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/32597/?|"Dragon Combat Overhaul"]. I use this also and for example there's a probability, that one wounded dragon will invoke one or more other dragons; and surely that wasn't Alduin, with this mod badly wounded dragons will use shouts of ice- or fire-storm that will quake a really, really big area… But what should this have to do with the crash after teleport? Nothing.
::So I don't had those earlier problems, I could apologize although I didn't had the feathers in the temple, and in Rorikstead the sky was clear. I went through all the quest and after getting the rose and guessing "thanks" to Sanguine, he teleports me to the Bee & Barb (that's where we got drunk) – and CTD after load screen. Always. Why??
::You can leave the conversation with Sanguine before the teleport, it's possible. Then you need the console for exiting the grove and finishing the quest. But it's not necessary to talk to him not at all. -- [[User:CompleCCity|CompleCCity]] ([[User talk:CompleCCity|talk]]) 16:25, 11 April 2014 (GMT)
:::Okay, that's really strange… I left the conversation with Sanguine, got stage of the quest @ 185 and set the stage via console @ 200 (finished) – and I automatically was teleported to the Bee & Barb, without CTD this time!?!? -- [[User:CompleCCity|CompleCCity]] ([[User talk:CompleCCity|talk]]) 16:35, 11 April 2014 (GMT)

== Impossible to start a night to remember ==

no black out after drinking contest, all 3 NPCs needed for quest are alive. As quest never starts I cant (or dont know how) manipulate it in console. I dont know if it is because i am lvl 91, or something with being vampire or perhaps because i have done the heart of dibella quest prior to going on drinking contest, other than that i have no ideas why it wont start...
if someone got any ideas how to start quest manually in console or something, i would apreciate it. {{uns2|00:44, 30 June 2014|89.176.251.54}}

== Can't give the ring to Ysolda ==
After I killed moira I tried To give the ring back, but it just won't show any dialogue options {{uns2|12:35, 6 August 2014|150.165.134.66}}

UESPWiki:Featured Images

2014-08-06T17:04:26Z

Eshe: /* Nominations and Votes */ vote

{{UESPWiki Trail}}__NEWSECTIONLINK__ __NOTOC__ [[File:Featured_star.png|50px|left]] '''Featured images''' follow the same nomination process as for [[UESPWiki:Featured Articles|Featured Articles]], but as they appear in a different section of the main page, a separate series of [[#Nominations and Votes|votes]] is held to decide which images meet the required standard.

For an image to be eligible for Featured status, it must be used in a UESP article. This is to prevent specially-taken beauty shots from stealing the limelight.

A gallery of older Featured Images can be found [[/Old FIs|here]]. Similarly, the archives of previous nominations can be found [[/Past Nominations|here]]. Note that not all failed nominations are included.

__TOC__
==Featured Image Process==
===Nomination===
Any registered member can nominate any image at any time. Nominated images should be of high quality and meet the site's [[Help:Images#Image_Standards|image standards]].

To nominate an image, list it on the bottom of this page with a three-tier heading, <tt>(<code>===Example===</code>)</tt>, and briefly explain why you think the image should be given featured status.

'''Example:'''
{{Example Table|width=100%|
<big>'''[[:File:SR-quest-Dragon Rising 05.jpg]]'''</big>
[[File:SR-quest-Dragon Rising 05.jpg|thumb]]
This is another great image. It appears cinematic, which is rare for the TES series.
*'''Support''' as nominator. [[User:Elliot|elliot]] ([[User_talk:Elliot|talk]]) 19:13, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
}}
===Voting===
After an image has been nominated, any registered member can vote to '''support''' or '''oppose''' each nomination. Each member can only vote once for a given image, but a member may change his/her vote by striking out the original vote and replacing it with the revised vote.

To vote on an image, state whether you '''support''' or '''oppose''' the image for featured image status. A vote should be in bold, and all votes must be signed. For example: 
<code><nowiki>* '''Support''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or'' 
<code><nowiki>* '''Oppose''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code>

Commenting with your vote is optional, but if you '''oppose''' a nomination, please state how the image must be improved to get your support for featured status.

If you are not yet ready to vote but would still like to add your thoughts, you may use:

<code><nowiki>* '''Comment''': <Comment> --~~~~</nowiki></code> ''or'' 
<code><nowiki>* '''Question''': <Question> --~~~~</nowiki></code>

And fill in your concerns or questions.

===Decisions===
UESP [[UESPWiki:Administrators|Administrators]] will periodically make decisions on image nominations. Decisions will only be made if:
* The image has been nominated for more than seven days.
* Five or more votes have been placed.

Nominations not meeting these criteria will be left open until a decision can be reached.

Images whose nominations pass will receive featured image status on the front page for two weeks (which may be extended up to one month if there is a shortage of images), and receive a small bronze star ([[File:Featured_star.png|15px]]) on the top right corner. If an image achieves featured status before the present featured image's time expires, it must wait its turn.

==Current Featured Image==
[[File:DB-quest-Experimental Subject.jpg|DB-quest-Experimental Subject.jpg|thumb|left|<center>'''[[Dragonborn:Experimental Subject (A)|Experimental Subject]]''' 27 July, 2014 - 10 August, 2014</center>]]

==={{Newline|Next}}:===
*[[:File:RG-quest-Dwarven Ruins.jpg|Dwarven Ruins]] (RG)
*[[:File:SR-place-Druadach Mountains.jpg|Druadach Mountains]] (SR)
*[[:File:SR-quest-Kill Anoriath.jpg|Kill Anoriath]] (SR)

==Nominations and Votes==
===[[:File:ON-place-Phaer Wayshrine.jpg]]===
[[File:ON-place-Phaer Wayshrine.jpg|thumb|right]]
Ah, Auridon. The loveliest of places to land after Coldharbour, IMO, and though this image is "just" of a wayshrine, it is nonetheless a stunning shot. I especially like how the archway's curve is repeated in the dome behind it.

*'''Support''': As nominator. [[User:Likelolwhat|likelolwhat]] [[User talk:Likelolwhat|''talk lulzy to me'']] 05:24, 27 July 2014 (GMT)
*'''Oppose''':Not a bad-looking image, but the problem I have with it is that it could be better. I think it would look better if it was taken from directly in front of the arch that's closest to the photographer, allowing you to see all the way into and through the wayshrine and to see the second arch, which is partially obscured by the first. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 15:07, 27 July 2014 (GMT)
*'''Oppose''': Speaking as an experienced photographer and image editor, in terms of image quality, it is good, and although it is colourful, the contrast is a little off. Also, the lighting is bad; you can see the shadows of some off-screen trees on the arch, the shrine, and grass. The shrine is also off-centre, although that isn't the main issue. If the shot was [[Help:Images#Tips_for_Good_Screenshots|taken from a different angle and/or taken at a different time of day]] for better lighting and to ensure that there are no shadows, this image will be a lot better. ~ [[User:Psylocke|Psylocke]] 01:59, 28 July 2014 (GMT)
*'''Oppose''': Per Anil and Psylocke. I think it is a very pretty and high quality picture, but not good enough for FI. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 03:36, 28 July 2014 (GMT)

===[[:File:OB-quest-Bear Season.jpg]]===
[[File:OB-quest-Bear Season.jpg|thumb|right]]
I really can't think of a better image for this quest. The image sums up the entire quest's story quite nicely. The expressions on the animals are all very good, particularly the bear attacking the one sheep. It's somewhat different when compared to other action shots on the wiki, but I think this is a brilliant image and would be a good choice to put on the front page.

*'''Support''': As nominator. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 22:13, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': I don't usually take part in these but this is an excellent Oblivion image. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:16, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Because the sheep in the middle looks like it's flying. [[User:Minor Edits|Insignificant Revisions]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 22:19, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': It can be tough to get good action shots in Oblivion, and this is a pretty cool one. I like it! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 17:04, 6 August 2014 (GMT)

User:Eshe

2014-08-06T16:01:55Z

Eshe:

<div style="height: 30px; margin: 0; padding: 0; position: absolute; right: 0px; top: -34px; z-index: 50; font-size:84%; color: #7d7d7d; width:450px; margin-top:10px; text-align:right;">[[User:Eshe/Tabs|tabs]] | [[User:Eshe/Style|style]] | [[User:Eshe/Talk Header|talk header]] | [[User talk:Eshe/Editnotice|edit notice]] | [[User:Eshe/Sandbox Notice|sandbox notice]] | [[User:Eshe/monobook.js|monobook.js]] | [[User:Eshe/common.css|common.css]] | [[User:Eshe/RfA|rfa]]</div>
__NOTOC__
{{/Tabs}}
⇣'''ABOUT'''

Hiya folks! I joined UESPWiki in June 2007 and have been unable to really kick the habit ever since ;). I've recently been on a really long and unplanned hiatus due to a lot of real-life changes, the major result of which is that I now live in Annapolis, Maryland, which is super lovely. My company was nice enough to allow me to work from home, and I get a lot of down time, so I'm really excited to be able to come back here and finish up some projects I had in the works. If I'm not here, you can likely find me logged onto Guild Wars 2 (not ESO, because I'm a one-MMO kind of girl). Drop me a line if you'd like to message me in-game! Things are settling down a bit but there's still a fair bit of chaos from the move, so as always, feel free to email me if I'm not responding on my talk page!

⇣'''AVAILABILITY'''

Since I'm just now starting to work UESPWiki back into my schedule, I'm not really sure when my regular times are going to be, and I haven't had a chance to wander back into [[UESPWIki:IRC|#uespwiki]] yet. I'll update this when I get a better idea of how things are going. I try to answer my talk page messages as quickly as possible, but you can always [[Special:EmailUser/Eshe|email me]] if you need to.

⇣'''PROJECTS'''

I'm currently looking to finish up some bigger projects that I started a while ago (oof!). After that, I hope to return to adopting pages to do some fairly major rewrites, mostly just to polish up some pages with incomplete or disorganized information that makes me twitch. I also try to grab some images here and there as I'm running around Skyrim. Other than that, I keep a close eye on the [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes]] page and focus on cleanup and maintenance-type tasks as needed, usually deletions, categorizing, and trying to keep [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&days=30&limit=5000&hidepatrolled=1 old unpatrolled edits] from vanishing into the abyss.

Some of my more recent projects include:
{|class=hiddentable
|
⇢ [[OB:Traps]] 
⇢ [[SI:Traps]] 
⇢ [[SR:Traps]] 
⇢ [[SR:Puzzles]] 
⇢ [[DB:Cultist]] 
⇢ [[DB:Reaver]]
|  
|style="vertical-align:top;"|
⇢ [[SR:Vampirism]] 
⇢ [[SR:Vampire Lord]] 
⇢ [[SR:Pack Member]] 
⇢ [[SR:Dremora]] 
⇢ [[SR:Werewolf]] 
⇢ [[SR:Lycanthropy]]
|  
|style="vertical-align:top;"|
⇢ [[SR:Necromancer]] 
⇢ [[SR:Conjurer]] 
⇢ [[SR:Fire Mage]] 
⇢ [[SR:Ice Mage]] 
⇢ [[SR:Storm Mage]] 
⇢ [[SR:Vampire]]
|  
|style="vertical-align:top;"|
⇢ [[SR:Bandit]] 
⇢ [[SR:Vigil of Stendarr]] 
⇢ [[SR:Falmer]] 
⇢ [[SR:Dragon]] [[File:Featured star.png|18px]] 
⇢ [[SR:Forsworn]] [[File:Featured star.png|18px]]
|}


Head to my [[User talk:Eshe|talk page]] if you have questions about any edits, and I'll do my best to answer! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]'''

⇣'''SANDBOXES'''

[[User:Eshe/Sandbox|one]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/2|two]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/3|three]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/4|four]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/5|five]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/6|six]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/7|seven]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/8|eight]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/9|nine]] |
[[User:Eshe/Sandbox/10|ten]] |
[[User:Eshe/Template|template]]
{{/Style}}
<div style="float:right">
{| cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=1
|{{User Admin|text=This user is an '''[[UESPWiki:Administrators|administrator]]''' on the wiki.}}
|-
|{{User Mentor|text=This user is a '''[[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentor]]'''. Ask for help! She doesn't bite.}}
|-
|{{User WikiGnome|#6CA86A|#B5D6B4}}
|-
|{{Userbox|border-color=#053A83|border-s=1|id-c=#053A83|info-background=#99CCFF|id=<nowiki>{{{1}}}</nowiki>|info=This user can generally hack her way through a template thicket.|info-c=#fff|id-s=9}}
|-
|{{User Skyrim|text=This user knows a thing or two about '''[[SR:Skyrim|Skyrim]]'''.}}
|-
|{{User Oblivion|text=This user used to know way too much about '''[[OB:Oblivion|Oblivion]]'''.}}
|-
|{{User UESPWikian|year=2007|month=6|day=26}}
|-
|{{user current age|month=1|day=7|year=1987|#5DBAA0|#9BE8D2}}
|-
|{{User American|#99CCFF|#fff}}
|-
|{{User LGBT}}
|-
|{{Ribbon|OPRP|width=120px}}{{Ribbon|OBNPCRP|width=120px}}
|-
|{{Ribbon|ICP|width=120px}}{{Ribbon|MRP|width=120px}}
|}

|}</div>
|}

User talk:Flyguy824

2014-08-06T15:49:11Z

Eshe: /* Welcome! */ new section

== Welcome! ==

Hello Flyguy824! Welcome to UESPWiki! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

* '''[[UESPWiki:Policies and Guidelines|Policies and Guidelines]]''': UESPWiki standards and expectations
* '''[[Help:Contents|Help Contents]]''': a list of in-depth Help pages
* '''[[Help:Quick Editing Guide|Quick Editing Guide]]''': a quick guide to wiki markup
* '''[[UESPWiki:Getting Started|Getting Started]]''': how you can help
* '''[[Help:Images|Uploading Images]]''': Guidelines on image standardization

If you would like to spice up your [[Special:Mypage|userpage]], [[UESPWiki:Userboxes|click here]] for a list of userboxes you can use, including a guide to making your own.

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave [[Help:Edit Summary|edit summaries]] to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Also, the "[[Help:Show Preview|show preview]]" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our [[UESPWiki:Patrollers|patrollers]] really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]] or discuss the games in the [[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]]. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]]. Have fun! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 15:49, 6 August 2014 (GMT)

User:Eshe/Sandbox/2

2014-08-06T14:40:19Z

Eshe: table draft

{{User:Eshe/Sandbox Notice|active=y|task=clean up and complete|article=SR:Containers}}{{Sandbox Space|Skyrim}}


{{TOCright}}
'''Containers''' are interactive objects that can contain items, or be used to store items in the game. There are a variety of different containers in [[Skyrim:Skyrim|Skyrim]], most of which initially hold loot appropriate to the container's style and location. Some containers may contain valuable treasure or gold, while others may only contain food or non-valuable clutter. Any container that contains nothing has "(empty)" after its name, letting you know that you do not need to bother searching it.

When you activate a container, you are presented with an [[#Inventory List|inventory list]] displaying the container's current contents. You can move individual items from the container to your personal inventory, or you can "Select All" to take everything in the container. Alternatively, you can scroll down to your personal inventory and move any items from there into the container if you wish to store items and/or get rid of extra items.

However, most containers in the game are ''not'' safe for long-term storage, as stated in a loading screen:
:''Items can be stored safely in any containers in your own home. But items kept in any other containers may not be there later when you go to retrieve them...''
Most containers will [[Skyrim:respawn|respawn]] if you leave the area for multiple days (in most cases, ten days, but the exact number depends upon where the container is located). Any contents left in a container when it respawns will disappear and be permanently lost. [[#Safe Containers|Safe Containers]] provides details on which containers can safely be used for long-term storage, without risk of losing your stored items.

==Barrels==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
!width=120|
!Name
!Respawns?
!Contents
!Notes
|-
|[[File:SR-icon-cont-barrel_01.png|60px]][[File:SR-icon-cont-barrel_02.png|60px]]
| Barrel
| Yes
| * Sample list
|
|-
|[[File:SR-icon-cont-barrel_01.png|center|60px]]
| Fish Barrel
| Yes
| * Sample list
|
|}

==Respawning Containers==
Note that these types of containers customarily respawn, however there may be exceptions to the rule.

===Apothecary's Satchel===
Apothecary's satchels are small leather containers, often found near [[Skyrim:Alchemy Lab|Alchemy Labs]], that contain alchemy [[Skyrim:Ingredients|Ingredients]] and/or [[Skyrim:Potions|Potions]]. There are actually three different types of satchel (all identically named), each with different quality and number of ingredients:
* Common: contains one common ingredient, and a 25% chance of containing one restoration potion (potion is random and leveled, with equal chance of being restore [[Skyrim:Restore Health|Health]], [[Skyrim:Restore Magicka|Magicka]], or [[Skyrim:Restore Stamina|Stamina]])
* Uncommon: contains one common ingredient, one uncommon ingredient, and a 25% chance of containing one restoration potion
* Rare: contains one common ingredient, one uncommon ingredient, one rare ingredient, and a 25% chance of containing one restoration potion
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-satchel_01.png
</gallery>

===Barrel===
Barrels are one of the most common types of containers, found in homes, shops, towns, and many dungeons. In addition to barrels that act as containers, there are also static barrels that are purely decorative; the latter type of barrel is slightly darker in color and cannot be activated. There are several different types of standard barrels, which contain different items (although they are all identically named).
* Food: 70% chance of containing 1-5 identical [[Skyrim:Food#Fruit/Vegetables|fruit or vegetables]], or 1-4 [[Skyrim:Salt Pile|salt piles]]. This is the most common type of barrel.
* Meat: 1 piece of [[Skyrim:Food#Raw Meat|raw meat]] and 1-3 salt piles.
* Ingredients (common): 1-5 identical [[Skyrim:Ingredients|Ingredients]], randomly selected from: [[Skyrim:Garlic|Garlic]], [[Skyrim:Honeycomb|Honeycomb]], [[Skyrim:Juniper Berries|Juniper Berries]], [[Skyrim:Lavender|Lavender]], [[Skyrim:Snowberries|Snowberries]], or [[Skyrim:Wheat|Wheat]].
* Ingredients (uncommon): 1-5 identical ingredients, randomly selected from: [[Skyrim:Bleeding Crown|Bleeding Crown]], [[Skyrim:Canis Root|Canis Root]], [[Skyrim:Dragon's Tongue|Dragon's Tongue]], [[Skyrim:Fly Amanita|Fly Amanita]], [[Skyrim:Frost Mirriam|Frost Mirriam]], [[Skyrim:Mora Tapinella|Mora Tapinella]], [[Skyrim:Spider Egg|Spider Egg]], or [[Skyrim:White Cap|White Cap]] (note that Dragon's Tongue is included in this list even though it is otherwised categorized as a common, not an uncommon, ingredient)

'''Variants:''' These look identical to standard barrels, but have different names, allowing their contents to be more easily identified.
* {{LE|Black-Briar Mead Barrel}}: Contains 1-4 [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Mead|Black-Briar Mead]], 10% chance of 1 [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Reserve|Black-Briar Reserve]]. Found in the [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Meadery|Black-Briar Meadery]] and [[Skyrim:Black-Briar Manor|Black-Briar Manor]].
* {{LE|Fish Barrel}}: Contains 2-5 [[Skyrim:Salmon|Salmon]], 0-2 [[Skyrim:Clam Meat|Clam Meat]], 1-3 [[Skyrim:Salt Pile|Salt Pile]], and 25% chance of each of the five fish ingredients ([[Skyrim:Abecean Longfin|Abecean Longfin]], [[Skyrim:Cyrodilic Spadetail|Cyrodilic Spadetail]], [[Skyrim:Histcarp|Histcarp]], [[Skyrim:River Betty|River Betty]], [[Skyrim:Silverside Perch|Silverside Perch]]). Mostly found on the docks at [[Skyrim:Riften|Riften]].
* {{LE|Honningbrew Mead Barrel}}: Contains 1-4 [[Skyrim:Honningbrew Mead|Honningbrew Mead]]. Found in the [[Skyrim:Honningbrew Meadery|Honningbrew Meadery]].
* {{LE|Mead Barrel}}: Contains 1 [[Skyrim:Nord Mead|Nord Mead]]
* [[Skyrim:Thief Cache|Thief Cache]]: Contains significant loot. Found in cities after completing the [[Skyrim:Thieves Guild (faction)#Reputation quests|Thieves Guild reputation quests]].
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-barrel_01.png|Common barrel
SR-icon-cont-barrel_02.png|Mead barrel ([[Skyrim:Sovngarde (place)|Sovngarde]])
</gallery>

===Chest===
Chests are the standard container for treasure and other types of valuable loot. There are actually more than two hundred different types of containers that are identified as "Chest". The majority of these are visually identical, but have different contents. Different types of chests are located in each different type of dungeon (e.g., Draugr chests, Forsworn chests, and Vampire chests each have slightly different contents). More than half of the different types of chests are actually [[#Merchant Chests|Merchant Chests]] that are hidden and not intended for player use.

Chests may be locked or [[Skyrim:Tension Cable|trapped]].
:Common Loot: Treasure
{{NewLine}}
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-chest_01.png|Common chest
SR-icon-cont-chest_02.png|Noble chest
SR-icon-cont-chest_03.png|Dungeon chest
SR-icon-cont-chest_04.png|Dungeon boss chest
SR-icon-cont-chest_05.png|Small dwarven chest
SR-icon-cont-chest_06.png|Large dwarven chest
SR-icon-cont-chest_07.png|Dwarven boss chest
SR-icon-cont-chest_08.png|Falmer chest
SR-icon-cont-Snow Elf Chest.png|Snow Elf chest{{DG}}
SR-icon-cont-SC Chest 01.png|Soul Cairn chest{{DG}}
SR-icon-cont-SC Chest 02.png|Soul Cairn chest{{DG}}
</gallery>

===Egg Sac===
{{About|frostbite spider egg sacs|chaurus egg sacs|Egg Sacs}}
Egg Sacs contain the [[Skyrim:Spider Egg|eggs]] of [[Skyrim:Frostbite_Spider|Frostbite Spiders]], and can be found in some dungeons.
:Common Loot: [[Skyrim:Spider_Egg|Spider Eggs]]
:Variant: {{LE|Web Sac|TreasSpiderWebSac}}
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-egg_sack_01.png
</gallery>

===Knapsack===
Knapsacks are less common and are usually found near [[Skyrim:Adventurer|adventurers]] and [[Skyrim:Hunter|hunters]] (dead or alive), near skeletal remains, as well as in [[Skyrim:Bandit|bandit]] campsites. There are two types of knapsacks in the game, and the [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard add-on]] adds in a third.
* First type: Unique and is only found in [[Skyrim:Helgen Keep|Helgen Keep]]. It always contains 4 [[Skyrim:Lockpick|lockpicks]] and 1 [[Skyrim:Potion of Minor Healing|Potion of Minor Healing]].
* Second type: All other knapsacks in the game. Each of them contains:
** 1 set of farm [[Skyrim:Clothes|clothes]] with a pair of [[Skyrim:Boots|boots]].
** 1 random [[Skyrim:Books|book]].
** 1 piece of random leveled [[Skyrim:Jewelry|jewelry]].
** 1 random leveled Potion of Restore Health.
** 75% chance of 1 [[Skyrim:Food#Fruit/Vegetables|fruit or vegetable]].
** 25% chance of 1-9 gold.
** 2-10 additional gold with the [[Skyrim:Golden Touch (perk)|Golden Touch]] perk.
* Third type{{DG}}: They contain the same type of loot as listed above with slight differences:
** 90% chance (instead of 25%) of 1-9 gold.
** An additional 2 potions of any of these 5 variants—Potion of [[Skyrim:Potion of Cure Disease|Cure Disease]], of [[Skyrim:Potions#Cure Poison|Cure Poison]], of Restore Health, of [[Skyrim:Potion of Minor Magicka|Restore Magicka]], or of [[Skyrim:Potion of Minor Stamina|Restore Stamina]].
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-knapsack_01.png
</gallery>

==={{LE|Pod}}{{DB}}===
Pods are common containers that can be found throughout [[Dragonborn:Apocrypha|Apocrypha]]. Loot found in pods include:
* Books{{huh}}
* Scrolls{{huh}}
* Soul gems{{huh}}
* {{huh}}

===Sack===
Sacks, including {{LE|Small Sack}}s and {{LE|Large Sack}}s, are common, small containers used in homes, shops, and many dungeons to store food. They contain 1-5 identical [[Skyrim:Food#Fruit/Vegetables|fruit or vegetables]] or 1-4 [[Skyrim:Salt Pile|salt piles]].
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-sack_01.png|Large Sack
SR-icon-cont-sack_02.png|Small Sack
</gallery>

===Satchel===
Satchels are a less common type of container, and are in the form of a small leather pouch. Loot found in satchels include:
* 90% chance of 1-9 gold.
* 75% chance of 1 [[Skyrim:Lockpick|lockpick]].
* 25% chance of 1 random leveled potion of [[Skyrim:Potion of Minor Healing|Restore Health]], of [[Skyrim:Potion of Minor Magicka|Restore Magicka]], or of [[Skyrim:Potion of Minor Stamina|Restore Stamina]].
The [[Skyrim:Dawnguard|Dawnguard add-on]] adds three more types of satchels into the game. They contain similar loot as listed above, but with slight differences.
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-satchel_01.png
</gallery>

===Urn===
Urns, including {{LE|Burial Urn}}s, are found throughout [[Skyrim:Nordic Ruins|Nordic Ruins]]. Some urns are always empty. All other varieties of urns contain each of the following:
* 20% chance of one random leveled restoration potion
* 30% chance of containing minor treasure (1-9 gold, low-value gem, or low-value unenchanted ring)
* Guaranteed 2-10 additional gold if you have the [[Skyrim:Imperial Luck|Imperial Luck]] ability or [[Skyrim:Golden Touch (perk)|Golden Touch]] perk
* Guaranteed 1-4 additional gems if you have the [[Skyrim:Prowler's Profit|Prowler's Profit]] ability

[[Dragonborn:Dragonborn|Dragonborn]] adds three visually identical types of urns, which are placed throughout [[Dragonborn:Raven Rock|Raven Rock]]:
* Ash Yam: 3 [[Dragonborn:Ash Yam|ash yams]]
* Food: 75% chance of containing a [[Skyrim:Food#Fruit/Vegetables|fruit or vegetable]] (with the exception of [[Skyrim:Gourd|gourds]] and [[Skyrim:Leek|leeks]])
* Ingredient: Common [[Skyrim:Ingredients|ingredients]] (identical to the content of ingredient-type barrels)
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-burial urn_01.png|Burial urn
SR-icon-cont-burial urn_02.png|Burial urn (second variant)
SR-icon-cont-burial urn_03.png|Burial urn (found in [[Skyrim:Solitude Catacombs|Solitude Catacombs]])
SR-icon-cont-urn_01.png|Urn
SR-icon-cont-urn_02.png|Urn (second variant)
DB-icon-cont-urn_01.png|Urn{{DB}}
</gallery>

==={{LE|Vessel}}{{DB}}===
Vessels are equivalent to boss chests and can be found in [[Dragonborn:Apocrypha|Apocrypha]]. Loot found in vessels include:
* Treasure{{huh}}
* Books{{huh}}
* {{huh}}

==Corpse Containers==
There are many corpses in the game which are considered to be containers in game data. Unless otherwise noted, all of the containers listed here ''do'' respawn with the cell in which they're located. Dead NPCs are not found here and are listed at their [[:Category:Skyrim-Dead NPCs|category]] instead.

===Burnt Corpse===

Burnt corpses are charred bodies which are commonly found in dungeons, sometimes lying over fire pits or inside hanging cages.
*First type (model #3 and #4): Two unique versions which are only found at the [[Skyrim:Western_Watchtower|Western Watchtower]] during the quest [[Skyrim:Dragon_Rising|Dragon Rising]]. They do ''not'' respawn. Each one has the following contents:
** 1 sample of [[Skyrim:Bone_Meal|bone meal]]
** 1 [[Skyrim:Steel_Dagger|steel dagger]]
** 1 [[Skyrim:Weapons#Two-Handed Weapons|two-handed weapon]], ''or'' 1 [[Skyrim:Shield|shield]] and 1 [[Skyrim:Weapons#One-Handed Weapons|one-handed weapon]]
** 1 [[Skyrim:Hunting_Bow|hunting bow]]
** 75% chance of 15 [[Skyrim:Steel_Arrow|steel arrows]]
** 50% chance of 1 [[Skyrim:Torch|torch]]
** 25% chance of 1 low-value [[Skyrim:Food#Beverages|beverage]]
** 25% chance of 1-9 gold coins
** 10% chance of 1 common [[Skyrim:Food|food]] item
** 10% chance of 1 [[Skyrim:Amulet_of_Talos|Amulet of Talos]], [[Skyrim:Amulet_of_Dibella|Dibella]], [[Skyrim:Amulet_of_Kynareth|Kynareth]], or [[Skyrim:Amulet_of_Mara|Mara]] (twice as likely to be Talos than the others)

*Second type (all five models): Five versions found commonly throughout Skyrim. Each one has a 60% chance to carry the following contents:
** 1 sample of [[Skyrim:Bone_Meal|bone meal]]
** 1-9 gold coins

*Third type (model #1): [[Skyrim:Yisra|Yisra]]'s dead body. It contains the following:
** [[Skyrim:Yisra's Necklace|Yisra's Necklace]]
** 25% chance of containing a single [[Skyrim:Lockpick|lockpick]]
** 25% chance of containing 1-9 gold
** 2-10 gold (requires [[Skyrim:Imperial Luck|Imperial Luck]])
** 2-10 gold (requires [[Skyrim:Golden Touch (perk)|Golden Touch]])
** 1 guaranteed leveled gem, the other 3 with chances 75%, 50%, and 25% (requires [[Skyrim:Prowler's Profit|Prowler's Profit]])

<gallery>
File:SR-icon-burnt_corpse_01.png|Model #1
File:SR-icon-burnt_corpse_02.png|Model #2
File:SR-icon-burnt_corpse_03.png|Model #3
File:SR-icon-burnt_corpse_04.png|Model #4
File:SR-icon-burnt_corpse_05.png|Model #5
</gallery>

===Desecrated Corpse===
Desecrated corpses are bodies of unfortunate soldiers of the [[Skyrim:Civil_War|civil war]], found in only two locations in the game. They do ''not'' respawn.
*First type: Unique to [[Skyrim:Kilkreath_Ruins|Kilkreath Ruins]], these are the corpses of [[Skyrim:Imperial_Legion|Imperial Legion]] soldiers which appear during the quest [[Skyrim:The_Break_of_Dawn|The Break of Dawn]]. There are seven in the [[Skyrim:Kilkreath_Temple|Temple]], four in the [[Skyrim:Kilkreath_Ruins#Zone_2:_Kilkreath_Ruins|Ruins]], and eleven in the [[Skyrim:Kilkreath_Catacombs|Catacombs]]. They each carry 20-125 gold.
*Second type: These are the corpses of [[Skyrim:Stormcloaks|Stormcloak]] soldiers which appear in two locations: Kilkreath Ruins (six in the Temple, five in the Ruins, and ten in the Catacombs) and the [[Skyrim:Throat_of_the_World|Throat of the World]] (ten, during [[Skyrim:Alduin's_Bane|Alduin's Bane]]). The ones at the Throat of the World cannot be looted, as they only appear during the cutscene in which you learn [[Skyrim:Dragonrend|Dragonrend]]. They each carry 20-125 gold.

<gallery>
File:SR-icon-cont-desecrated corpse 01.png|Desecrated Corpse (Imperial)
File:SR-icon-cont-desecrated corpse 02.png|Desecrated Corpse (Stormcloak)
</gallery>

===Dessicated Corpse===
Dessicated corpses are the bodies of unfortunate victims to [[Skyrim:Frostbite_Spider|frostbite spiders]], found wrapped in spiderwebs in various dungeons throughout Skyrim. They have a 75% chance of the following contents:
* 1 [[Skyrim:Lockpick|lockpick]]
* 1-9 gold coins
<gallery>
File:SR-icon-cont-dessicated_corpse_01.png
</gallery>

===Draugr===
In addition to living [[Skyrim:Draugr|draugr]], many dungeons throughout Skyrim also contain the corpses of draugr which can be looted. There are ten versions, all of which carry the following contents:
* 90% chance of 1-9 gold
* Guaranteed 2-10 additional gold if you have the Golden Touch perk
* Guaranteed 2-10 additional gold if you have the Imperial Luck ability
* Guaranteed 1-4 gems if you have the [[Skyrim:Prowler's_Profit|Prowler's Profit]] ability
* 25% chance of 1 piece of armor (boots, cuirass, gauntlets, helmet, or shield)
* 25% chance of 1 weapon or 12 arrows
<gallery>
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 01.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 02.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 03.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 04.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 05.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 06.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 07.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 08.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 09.png
File:SR-icon-cont-draugr 10.png
</gallery>

==Safe Containers==
Containers may be safe for one of two reasons. Some container types are set to be non-respawning — containers of that type will never respawn, no matter where the container is found. Other containers are safe because of their location — some locations, in particular the player's [[Skyrim:Houses|houses]], are identified as non-respawning locations. All containers in these safe locations (even common Barrels and Sacks) can safely be used for storage.

===Child's Chest===
Child's Chest is a part of child's bedroom. It will be empty if you haven't adopted any children. Your children may collect various things and store them in their chest. Their older weapons, clothes and dolls will be kept in it too, if you give them a new one. Your children will restock it every few days. However, the original contents in it won't disappear.

===Coffin===
Coffins are found in Halls of the Dead and Vampire Dungeons. Most coffins are always empty. However, one variety of coffin has a 75% chance of containing one of the following:
* 2 gold, [[Skyrim:Bone Meal|Bone Meal]], [[Skyrim:Bloody Rags|Bloody Rags]], [[Skyrim:Skull|Skull]], [[Skyrim:Ragged Robes|Ragged Robes]], or a 1.5% chance of containing a random leveled [[Skyrim:Gems|gem]], unenchanted [[Skyrim:Jewelry|Jewelry]], or [[Skyrim:Specialty Gear#Amulets of the Divines|Amulet of the Divine]].
Whenever a citizen of a hold dies, the items that they were carrying, such as keys, clothes, and weapons, will appear in a coffin in the Hall of the Dead of the hold capital. These items will then be free to take without consequence.
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-coffin_01.png|Noble Coffin
SR-item-Coffin_01.jpg|Burial Coffin
</gallery>

===Cupboard===
Cupboards are common furniture in houses. Different types of cupboards appear in common houses, upper-class houses, and noble houses. Some models have shelves on which additional items may be placed. The interior contents of cupboards are:
* Common variety: 75% chance of containing random clutter or cheap clothing. Most valuable possible item is 10 [[Skyrim:Leather Strips|Leather Strips]].
* Upper-class variety: 50% chance of 1-9 gold, plus up to three random clutter items or random [[Skyrim:books|books]] (75% chance for each of three items).
* Noble variety: 50% chance of 1-27 gold, plus up to two random clutter items or random books (75% chance for each of two items)
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-common_cupboard_01.png|Common cupboard
SR-icon-cont-upper_class_cupboard_01.png|Upper-class cupboard
SR-icon-cont-noble_drawers_01.png|Noble cupboard
SR-icon-cont-noble_drawers_02.png|Noble cupboard
</gallery>
===Dresser===
:Common Loot: Clothing, Clutter
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-common_dresser_01.png|Common dresser
SR-icon-cont-upper_class_dresser_01.png|Upper-class dresser
SR-icon-cont-orc_dresser_01.png|Orc dresser
</gallery>

===End Table===
Most frequently seen in houses.
:Common Loot: Clutter
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-common_end_table_01.png|Common end table
SR-icon-cont-upper_class_end_table_01.png|Upper-class end table
SR-icon-cont-upper_class_end_table_02.png|Upper-class end table
SR-icon-cont-noble_end_table_01.png|Noble end table
SR-icon-cont-orc_end_table_01.png|Orc end table
</gallery>
===Pot===
:Common Loot: Random ingredients

==={{LE|Riekling Hut}}{{DB}}===
:Common Loot: Treasure, Gold, Miscellaneous Items, Riekling Spears
<gallery>
DB-item-Riekling Hut.jpg
</gallery>

===Strongbox===
:Common Loot: Gemstones, Jewelry, Gold
:Variants: {{LE|Strong Box}}, {{LE|Safe}}, {{LE|East Empire Company Strongbox}}
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-strongbox_01.png|Strongbox
SR-icon-cont-safe_01.png|Safe
</gallery>

===Wardrobe===
:Common Loot: Apparel
<gallery>
SR-icon-cont-upper_class_wardrobe_01.png|Upper-class wardrobe
SR-icon-cont-noble_drawers_01.png|Noble wardrobe
SR-icon-cont-noble_drawers_02.png|Noble wardrobe
SR-icon-cont-noble_wardrobe_01.png|Noble wardrobe
</gallery>

== Safe Locations==
Safe locations are places that never [[Skyrim:respawn|respawn]]. Therefore, every container in the location (even a common barrel or sack) is safe for storage. The primary example of a safe location is a player-owned [[Skyrim:Houses|house]], but a large number of other places are also non-respawning. Unless noted otherwise on the place page, only the interior areas of these locations are safe — i.e., only regions that are entered through a door that triggers a loading screen, and have their own map, separate from the exterior map.

In a few instances, there may be quest-related changes to the location (as noted on the individual place page), but otherwise the game does not modify the contents of a safe location.

All safe locations are listed in the [[:Category:Skyrim-Places-Safe|Safe Locations]] category.

==Merchant Chests==
All [[Skyrim:merchants|merchants]] in the game (with the exception of [[Skyrim:Hunter|Hunters]], Peddlers, and skooma dealers) have a merchant chest containing the merchant's gold and the goods they have available for sale. The chest does not contain the merchant's entire inventory — merchants will also sell some items sitting out in the store and unequipped items in their personal inventory — and also is not the only source of merchant gold — any personal gold will be added to the merchant's available gold. Nevertheless, the merchant chest contains the standard list of items sold by the merchant. If multiple merchants work in the same store, they share the same merchant chest. A merchant must be in the same area as the chest in order for its contents to be made available for sale. It [[Skyrim:Dungeons#Respawning|respawns]] every two days, independent of whether the rest of the cell contents respawn.

The merchant chest is a standard container, but it is intentionally hidden to prevent players from accessing the chest. On the PC, using the <code>tcl</code> [[Skyrim:Console|Console]] command generally allows the merchant chest to be found, most commonly under the floor of the merchant's store. The existence of this chest is not a bug, an easter egg, or in any way noteworthy -- it is a standard part of game mechanics that is not visible as part of standard game play.

==Inventory List==
A container's inventory list is sorted in this order:
* All armors and weapons, sorted by their damage or armor.
* All food, potions, ingredients, books, notes, and misc items, sorted by name.
* All heavy boots, sorted by armor value.
* All rings, necklaces, amulets, hats, hoods, cowls, caps, circlets, and ebony boots, sorted by value.
* All unhooded clothing, sorted by value.
* All hooded clothing, sorted by value.
* Some gauntlets, boots, and bracers, sorted by armor.
* Imperial bracers, steel cuffed boots, and all boots of light armor, sorted by armor.
* Iron gauntlets and boots, scaled gauntlets and boots, sorted by armor.
* All remaining light gauntlets and bracers, sorted by armor.
* All non-armor shoes, boots and footwraps, sorted by value.

==Other Containers==

*'''Book Shelves''' in the player's houses can be activated to access a limited capacity [[Skyrim:Books|book]] inventory, and automatically place books on the shelves. Other types of items may be moved onto the shelves manually. Bookshelves are also known to be used with the reusable [[Skyrim:Oghma Infinium|Oghma Infinium]] glitch.
*'''Display Cases''' have a glass top that will open and close through activation, and a weapon may be placed in them while they are open by activating them.
*'''Mannequins''' can be activated to store and display [[Skyrim:Armor|armor]], and [[Skyrim:Clothing|clothing]]. They have a weight limit (around 305). Their BaseID is <code>89a85</code>.
*'''NPCs''' can be used as containers either via [[Skyrim:Pickpocket|pickpocketing]] or trading with [[Skyrim:Followers|followers]], but have a weight limit as to how much they can carry.
*'''Shield / Weapon Plaques''' are decorative wall mounted containers that will remove and display equipped items when activated.
*'''Static Containers''' such as baskets, boxes, etc may contain loot, or be used to display items, but the latter requires manual placement of items.
*'''Weapon Racks''' can be activated to automatically remove equipped weapons from the player for storage and display.

==Portable Containers==
As many corpses can be picked up and carried around, they can effectively becomes a portable container, allowing you to potentially carry an unlimited number of items around and remain [[Skyrim:Carry Weight|unencumbered]]. Note however that these portable containers should not be considered safe, as their contents may be deleted if left for a long period of time. It is also noteworthy that the speed at which you can carry the corpse appears to be related to its size, so small corpses like [[Skyrim:Hawk|hawks]] work well in this capacity.

== Bugs ==
{{Bug|Certain merchant chests are accessible without the use of console commands, some with and some without clipping issues.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|Containers in houses sometimes reverse the stolen flag on items—non-stolen items get marked as stolen, and stolen items become clean.|confirmed=1}}
{{Bug|Occasionally, continuing from a saved game inside a home you own loads the cell without furniture, and all your books end up in a pile on the floor.|OSP|1.2}}
{{Bug|Bookshelves can often glitch, causing you to lose any books that are stored on the shelf you are using. If you try to overload the shelf with too many books, you may permanently lose all the books on it, as well as making the shelf unable to be activated. Occasionally these books are still visible but unable to be activated. Also, the "take all" button will sometimes only take some of the books, permanently deleting others.|confirmed=1}}

User talk:Acehunter

2014-08-06T13:47:47Z

Eshe: /* Welcome! */ new section

== Welcome! ==

Hello Acehunter! Welcome to UESPWiki! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

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Feel free to practice editing in the [[UESPWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]] or discuss the games in the [[UESPWiki:Forums|forums]]. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our [[UESPWiki:Mentor Program|mentors]]. Have fun! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 13:47, 6 August 2014 (GMT)

UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard

2014-08-05T22:59:29Z

Eshe: /* De-Patrollership */ reply

[[Category:Message Boards|{{PAGENAME}}]] __NEWSECTIONLINK__<div style="float:right">{{Scrolling Archive Table|class=collapsible collapsed|height=225px|width=300px
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== New Category Request: Skyrim-Items-Permanent Items ==

Maybe items described on [[Skyrim:Permanent_And_Persistent_Items]] should have their own category? Because list is becoming clumsy. But I do not know what is the procedure for creating one. [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 15:56, 4 March 2014 (GMT)
:I think the list on the page works better, at least for now. Not every item in that list has its own page, so not all of them could be categorised properly. Thus the page is a necessity. [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 20:13, 4 March 2014 (GMT)
::Then I'll just continue checking items and adding them there for now... [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 07:03, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

== Abuse Filter Spammers ==

* {{Userlinks|37.236.167.250}}
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* {{Userlinks|91.200.13.18}}
* {{Userlinks|91.200.13.20}}
* {{Userlinks|91.200.13.87}}
* {{Userlinks|91.200.14.55}}
* {{Userlinks|114.80.226.71}}
* {{Userlinks|114.80.226.71}}
* {{Userlinks|116.213.51.221}}
* {{Userlinks|116.228.55.217}}
* {{Userlinks|173.44.37.234}}
* {{Userlinks|180.166.69.1}}
* {{Userlinks|202.175.83.61}}
* {{Userlinks|212.107.116.234}}
* {{Userlinks|219.93.183.102}}
* {{Userlinks|219.93.183.103}}

* {{Userlinks|AlexanderkfjgmdrjmdRay}}
* {{Userlinks|BettyxntppytgbuBardos}}
* {{Userlinks|CareyghhwbnioekEsteb}}
* {{Userlinks|LylewxkrmncgqvKaczmarek}}
* {{Userlinks|TobyrbivwtwxsrKincheloe}}

It's been a while since the [[Special:AbuseLog]] got cleared out of its most prolific spammers, so here's a list. These are the most prolific but include a couple that managed to beat the filter and named accounts. Some pages are repeatedly attempted to be spammed so it may be worthwhile protecting those [[Special:ProtectedTitles|page names from creation]]. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 16:35, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

:I'll get to work on blocking these, then I'll take a look at what pages need protecting. Out of curiosity, how did you come up with this list? I've just pulled a similar list from the database, and it highlights a couple where I think range blocks will be a good choice, but I'll have to check if there are legitimate edits from those IPs first. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:32, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

::Point and click. Click an ip link, click abuse log, look at list. Generally these ones would have hundreds of logs, though many are caught by more than one filter. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:38, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

:::That works. I've done all the ones above, except for those that may need range blocking. I've got about twenty more individual ones that I've identified from the database, so I'll do those, then remind myself how to do range blocks and do those as well. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:53, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

::::Okay, those are all done. Between the specific IPs and the {{Pl|Special:BlockList|range blocks|3=wpTarget=&wpOptions%5B%5D=userblocks&wpOptions%5B%5D=addressblocks&limit=50}}, that's blocked the top 100 IP addresses coming from the AbuseFilter, along with any named users that had 10 or more attempted unwanted edits. Just to cover what all I did, for the record....

::::As a safety measure, all IPs (both single and range) were checked against the CheckUser logs in the database to confirm that there were no legitimate edits from those IPs/ranges. Similarly, I checked the contribution history of named users before blocking them so I didn't accidentally block any users (like [[Special:Contributions/Din|Din]]) who might have triggered the abuse filter while attempting legitimate edits.

::::Finally, range blocks were kept as small as reasonably possible (/24) with the one exception being a highly prolific set of IPs from China that was responsible for nearly 5000 abuse filter hits in the last three months alone. I also limited the range blocks to only a year, instead of indefinite. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:49, 5 March 2014 (GMT)

:::::Oh, I almost forgot about the second part. Pages with over 200 attempted abusive edits in the last three months are now semi-protected as well. Only one was actually a red link. A few I didn't protect, like the AN and a couple of talk pages, because there's good reason to assume a non-autoconfirmed user might want to post to those pages. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:04, 6 March 2014 (GMT)

== Inappropriate ads ==

When I go to the wiki or forums on my android phone, I eventually get a pop up ad telling me my phone has been infected with a virus. It's very disconcerting and needs to stop. I believe it's "nexusads" or something like that. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 01:45, 17 March 2014 (GMT)

:I'll take a look but without more information its going to be impossible to find the offending ad or network. Google AdSense takes care of all that behind the scenes so unless I have an exact URL or company name I can't do much. Especially difficult on mobile but you can try the "report ad" link if it works for you. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 21:19, 17 March 2014 (GMT)

::It's masquerading as a pop-up alert. Sorry, I've been trying to get it to pop up again to get an exact URL since I posted this, but it's a bit like the cartoon dancing frog in a box. I'll update when I can. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 04:28, 18 March 2014 (GMT)

:::The address I keep getting when I was checking this was ib.adnxs.com -- I got that specific address each time I loaded a page in a mobile browser without using the mobile version. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 23:34, 30 March 2014 (GMT)

::::A few ads came up matching this address which I blocked but let me know if anyone sees it again. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 00:49, 31 March 2014 (GMT)

== Speedy Deleting Redirects ==

It seems that either I'm confused or a lot of other people are, so I'd like to clarify and perhaps change our policy in regards to redirects. According to my understanding of our [[Project:Deletion Policy|Deletion Policy]], redirects should only be speedy deleted if they're the result of typos, what they link to doesn't exist, they're in Main space and recently created, or they're in File space. At least two different editors that I can think of, probably more, have recently nominated redirects for speedy deletion (most of them due to page moves, but not all) that don't qualify according to the rules listed.

Now, having said that, I think they should. The links were all taken care of, they show no external links, and the redirect left behind serves no real purpose other than the remote possibility that someone might try to access the page by its old name. To me, a redirect in this state is a trivial deletion ''unless'' the name of the page is so common that it can be reasonably expected that someone might try to enter that name in the search box ''and'' the new name is dissimilar enough to the old one that it wouldn't pop up in the inline search results. Right now, it's only considered to be trivial if it's in File space and we rename it according to specific rules, while other spaces are excluded altogether. Is there a reason we can't treat redirects much the same as general maintenance and simply speedy delete them as long as there's no reason to believe they should be kept? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:03, 17 March 2014 (GMT)
:I'm probably one of those editors who speedied a non-file redirect. I support this completely. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 20:38, 17 March 2014 (GMT)
::While I was hoping for a clearer consensus, in the absence of any objections, I'll update our policy on redirects sometime tomorrow and put it into effect for the existing redirects. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 03:41, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
:::And done. I kept the criteria wording very open to allow administrators to decide on a case-by-case basis. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:20, 27 March 2014 (GMT)

== ESO for Admins and Editors ==

ESO's release is quickly approaching! Like past games I'm offering to purchase the game for admins and senior editors, i.e., basically anyone who is currently active with the wiki. It looks like I can only purchase the physical edition for other people so you'd prefer the digital editor, or have already bought the game, we can work out something to reimburse you the game's value. Once Zenimax Online reveals their monthly payment options I'll probably also offer to buy some monthly passes for people. If you'd like to be considered for this just [mailto:dave@uesp.net e-mail me] and we'll sort out the details. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 13:01, 18 March 2014 (GMT)

== Protection for [[Lore:Imperial Names]] ==

Twice within a few hours this page has been hit by bots. Can we just nip this at the bud right now and have an admin lock down the page for a brief while? -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 05:08, 22 March 2014 (GMT)

:AKB removed the spam revisions and blocked the two IPs, but since the page hasn't been hit again, I don't think there's a need to protect right now. There also haven't been any other edits by anything in that IP range, either. If it happens again, though, re-post and we'll either range block the address or protect the page. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:23, 22 March 2014 (GMT)

== TESO Temporary Policy Changes ==

With no sign of this discussion coming from those who have a better idea than me what needs done and when, I am here to start it.

;(1) Limit Page Creation.
* This is now policy so all that needs decided is when to start. I would hesitantly suggest that if additions keep up their pace then Lore, Main, and Skyrim, should be locked ahead of time.
* Time period: Soonish - June 4th

;(2) Ease Patrolling Guidelines.
* As with any new release information will be hard to verify immediately. Spelling and grammar will ''not'' be a priority, so therefore if its not obvious or clear vandalism, please patrol and move on. Be careful to check anything that may have been already added by a bot (e.g. Summary Table Information) as that should be correct already.
* Time period: April 4th - June 4th.

;(3) Temporary Admins.
* I just don't know if there is a need, so input is needed from those around for Skyrim. There are 4 active admins, AKB, Dwarfmp, Legoless, and Robin. There was about the same amount for Skyrim yet five were promoted. Below is a list of some patrollers listed by known ESO participation and activity (excuse any mistakes):
** [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]]: Active, and getting ESO
** [[User:Jak Atackka|Jak Atackka]]: Not too active, and but getting ESO afaik and should be back
** [[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]]: Active, knows tech stuff, not sure on ESO
** [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]]: Active, and getting ESO afaik
** [[User:The Silencer|The Silencer]]: Active, and getting ESO for PS4 in June/July
** [[User:Kiz|Kiz]]: Active
** [[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]]: Active
** [[User:Velyanthe|Velyanthe]]: Active
** [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]]: Active

* The four others I left off (with no offense intended) are <s>Damon (not too active, not getting ESO afaik)</s> (Don't want the position, thanks though. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]]) , Holomay (not very active), Hargrimm (very recent promotion to patroller), Nocte Canticum (same as Hargrimm).
* These are not nominations just a suggestion.

So, have fun debating. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 00:40, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:Unfortunately, I won't be getting ESO. Partially because I'm too busy, and partially because I want to hold out until it's free to play ($15 a month? Get real). I'm fine as a patroller; I don't think I have the requisite tech savvy for admin duties. Everyone else on the list are trustworthy contributors who I'm sure would be very fine temp admins. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 00:54, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:{{ec}}I approve of all points, Silencer made, and in regards to administrators, I want to add this:

:I am in fact active, and I will be through the release and onward, and while I won't have it for the first few months or so, I plan to eventually get ESO. That said, I am not interested in adminship, temporarily or otherwise. I'd do it if I had to, and I wouldn't mind, but under normal circumstances (these aren't necessarily 'normal', admittedly), I'd not vote for myself. I can perform the functions of an admin, but there's more to just pushing buttons, and adminship wouldn't necessarily be needed to perform my current functions

:If I ''had'' to select some (I am of the opinion that 2 are needed at best with the current number we have), I'd give my vote to Jeancey and Alfwyn. Jeancey has a good idea of what's going on, is working heard on ESO's work, and he'd be a good person to turn users to who need help with the namespace work and others, and despite being here a year, is one of the top five editors all time (excluding bots). Alfwyn is effectively an admin having direct server access, so he's already trusted with more work than an admin typically has, and naturally, I'd support his adminship. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 01:01, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

::I wasn't nominating anyone cause thats ''all'' our active patrollers, and that wouldn't be all that wise. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:05, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:::I never suggested anyone was in a nomination. I said ''if'' we nominated someone, I like those two for those reasons... And, that I didn't want to be on any lists. :) -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 01:08, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

::::Minor correction - we have at least 6 active admins, counting myself and [[User:Daveh|Daveh]]. Yeah, I was out of it for a year, mostly because I was under NDA on the beta and didn't want to risk conflict of interest, but I'm back for the foreseeable future. Though being on the job market may cause some interruptions in my contribution. Also - why do you want to lock Skyrim and not Online? Or is that an error? — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 01:40, 23 March 2014 (GMT)
:::::I believe the idea is to lock the most recent game's namespace so people don't accidentally create Online pages in that namespace, though I think there is less of an issue with ESO than there would be with a new single player game. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 01:49, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}To be up front with this, I had thought most of this was assumed to be happening. The page lock has been performed more than once, its standard practice now. As for the lowering of patrolling standards, that was also expected I had thought. Good and perfectly correct is less important than done as quickly as possible.

As for the temporary admins, which is the only real point of contention here, I am going to just say what we administrators had already considered (which we were already doing). For starters, all ESO admins will lose the rights once its over, even if they are just going to ask for them back afterwords. As for candidates, comments suggest we are most comfortable with Jeancey getting it, as well as Alfwyn and Jak (I would ask for Jak to be more active, however). As Alfwyn and Jak can most likely just make themselves admins anyway, there is little reason to not just give them the rights on a more official basis. As for Jeancey, he is a very talented and dedicated editor, and has worked impressively hard towards helping with ESO. It's worth remembering we have a much stronger administrative team right now, so I don't think we need as many hands for the moment. If it becomes too much of a burden, we can put some more forward in a hurry, but too few is better than too many right now. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 01:54, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:Did we lock Oblivion when Skyrim came out? I don't seem to recall anyone being too confused by that, they're clearly not the same game. Usually what happens is people create pages in Main that should be in the new game's namespace. That's the only one that really needs a creation lock I think. Also, it's likely that by the time the early-release period is over, most of the important pages will have been created already. (I assume that the item redirect pages will be mostly done by bots. Mainly it's things like places and NPCs that people are likely to create.) As for Admins, I agree with the 3 AKB listed. The others may be good as well, though I haven't been around lately to see how active they are. (I don't know Forfeit at all, he/she must be relatively new?) I don't mind having a few extra hands around, but there honestly haven't been ''that'' many Admin-only jobs that have needed doing lately. (Most of the deletions I've done lately have been due to my own mistakes, and I haven't seen much call for blocking lately, so the spam filters seem to be doing their job. Also, we have people with Blocker status that aren't Admins, so maybe we should do more of that if it becomes necessary.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 02:52, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

::Yes, we protected Oblivion and Lore when Skyrim came out. See [[UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 21#More Skyrim-Related Policy Changes|here]] and the Status section at the bottom. Main space is permanently protected against page creation except by trusted users (autopatrolled, user patrollers, patrollers, and admins).

::As for item redirects, I'll take a look at what Rpeh and Nephele did last time, but I'm probably going to need some direction on that. Since I'm not playing ESO, I have no frame of reference to make sense of what's in the uespLog files that Dave uploaded. But that can be taken up on my talk page or in IRC if anyone feels they have a good handle on the info and can provide me some clear instructions on what to do.

::I agree that we probably don't need too many additional admins, and I agree with the people suggested. I'd rather wait and see if we need more than promote too many and have people not have a firm grasp of what they're doing because they don't have the chance to do it often enough. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:06, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

:::I pre-ordered ESO and will be playing it as soon as I can (5 days before launch), and subsequently will be active. I wouldn't mind being a temporary admin if I was asked to, but it would be best to rely on the admins we currently have. As was the case with Skyrim, many activities needed can be done without even owning the game. I suspect we won't have as big of a rush as Skyrim, but due to the sheer size of the game we'll likely see as many if not more page creations and edits.

:::As a side note, if we do lock page creation in some namespaces, we might want to create a notice for all page creations suggesting that they create the page in "Online" space, while providing a link to the correct article name (if possible). I'm pretty sure we have an extension that can do that, but I'm not familiar with it. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 20:19, 25 March 2014 (GMT)

::::Page creation is now limited to those with the <code>tboverride</code> permission (see [[Special:UserGroupRights]]) in the following namespaces: Online, Skyrim, Dragonborn, and Lore. It looks like we had some issues with this the last time around, and Nephele implemented some custom coding changes, but we've updated the code since then and no longer have her changes active. I'm not entirely sure what the issue was, so I'd like to wait and see how things go on this front, then figure out what, if anything, needs to be done this time around. I'll review our namespace-specific page creation messages after I get back from walking the dog. Oh, and in case I've done anything wrong, the lockdown changes are at [[MediaWiki:Titleblacklist]]. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:10, 29 March 2014 (GMT)

::::As it turns out, most of the notices we would want to create have already been done. I [[MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new-nocreate|added one]] that should reduce the number of clicks needed before users find out that they can't create a page, but apart from that, I think we have everything we need. If anyone notices somewhere where additional help text would be useful, please let me know, if you can't find/create it yourself. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:55, 29 March 2014 (GMT)

===Temporary Administrative Rights for Alfwyn, Jak, and Jeancey===
Considering the date, we need to decide on this sooner rather than later. I am fine with these three helping out the administration during this period. Once ESO related content has calmed down, the rights will be removed.

*'''Support''': As nominator --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 01:10, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support (Alfwyn, Jeancey)''': Jeancey and Alfwyn have my immediate and unconditional support for adminship. They are hardworking and active users. Jeancey is definitely one of - if not the most - the most knowledgeable and active ESO editors, and Alfwyn, given his server access, is effectively an administrator, so why not finalise it? -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 01:40, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
:'''Neutral (Jak)''': Jak Atackka, I am neutral for. While he also has server rights, he appears incredibly inactive, with only rare chirping in on random discussions. Since he's rather inactive (or appears so), I don't know how beneficial his adminship would necessarily be to the ESO launch at this present time.-[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 01:40, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Yes to all three. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:46, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Sounds good. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 01:55, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Jak has said (somewhere...don't remember where) that he'll be more active, so I'm good with all three. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:05, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': All hands on deck! -- [[User:Hargrimm|Hargrimm]][[User talk:Hargrimm|(T)]] 02:45, 28 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': I've been mostly lurking on the wiki lately, but I don't think I've seen more than a few bad edits from any of these three editors in months. I know Jeancey will be good for this, and while I haven't looked at all the others' edits lately, I would trust them with it anyway, despite Jak's inactivity. '''[[User:Velyanthe|Vely]]'''[[User talk:Velyanthe|►t]][[Special:EmailUser/Velyanthe|►e]] 02:47, 28 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': All three are good, intelligent choices. I'd like to say 'active', but Jak hasn't been around too much. Regardless, I'm pretty sure he'll be around more now so that doesn't change my vote at all. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 02:47, 28 March 2014 (GMT)
*'''Support''': Excellent choices. --[[User:Xyzzy|Xyzzy]] [[User talk:Xyzzy|Talk]] 04:37, 28 March 2014 (GMT)

The active community is unanimous and the editors in nomination haven't objected to their position, think we can [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Snowball|Snowball this]] so that they have their buttons and a fast practice with them before the servers launch and new editors flood in? -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 05:08, 30 March 2014 (GMT)

Done -- May Stendarr have mercy on their souls...;) -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 10:23, 30 March 2014 (GMT)

== Thumbnail Creation Error ==

I've noticed it on a few occasions, and have seen some conversation trying to clear up this issue, but a [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy#MediaWiki_thumbnail_bug|user just reported]] an issue with our thumbnail generation. While I do not have the technical know how to diagnose the issue myself, my looking for a solution from Mediawiki gave me little in the way of a fix. I did find their [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Errors_and_symptoms#Image_Thumbnails_not_working_and.2For_appearing documentation] on this sort of issue, but am unsure what their suggestions will exactly do. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 23:36, 30 March 2014 (GMT)
:I fixed some yesterday with null edits. Try that. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 00:02, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
::Just ran into this issue, tried what Anil said, and it worked; confirmed. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 01:10, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
:::I just tried something that may be related. Please post back here if the issue continues to crop up. Note that there may be some residual thumbnails where this has occurred and just needs fixing. The real test will be to see if there are any clearly new cases. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:43, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
::::We have [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim_talk:Danica_Pure-Spring&curid=111947&diff=1309017&oldid=907716&rcid=1387048 another reporting] on this problem. I'm sure additional reports aren't particularly helpful, as this one appears to add no more additional information than AKB's report, but there's definitely something up. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 06:44, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
:::::It's possible that was a "leftover". If not, I'm at a loss, as I see ImageMagick installed and the file present exactly where it should be on every server we have. I'll bring it to Dave's attention and hopefully he can figure out what the problem is. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:13, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
:Three more have been spotted and fixed by me over the last two days ([[Skyrim:No Stone Unturned]], [[Skyrim:Arniel's Endeavor]], and [[Skyrim:Riften]]). I've been checking the page histories, and none of these pages have been edited since these started appearing, so hopefully these are just leftovers. Interestingly, they only seem to be found in the Skyrim namespace. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 15:37, 1 April 2014 (GMT)
::I actually just found one on a Morrowind page. I'm not sure if it would still be a remnant from who knows when, but it was there. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 03:48, 2 April 2014 (GMT)
:The [[Oblivion:Quest Items]] page seems to have the same problem. It was working earlier, then suddenly went all gray-boxy. It happened first when I clicked on a link for a specific item, http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Eye_of_Nocturnal#Eye_of_Nocturnal-- [[User:Musicman247|Musicman247]] ([[User talk:Musicman247|talk]]) 17:33, 8 April 2014 (GMT)
::Okay, I've found another possible source of the problem, so let's see how it goes. Again, there could be cases of leftovers, but if there's clearly a new case where this is happening (e.g., it was fine after I posted this and ''then'' became problematic afterwards) let me know. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:31, 8 April 2014 (GMT)
:It's spread to the [[Main Page]] now. -- [[User:Musicman247|Musicman247]] ([[User talk:Musicman247|talk]]) 01:18, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
::Ok, the thumbnails work when I'm logged in, but they don't work when I'm not. -- [[User:Musicman247|Musicman247]] ([[User talk:Musicman247|talk]]) 01:19, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
:::I purged the page. Didn't see anything logged in and it looked alright when I logged out. Is it fixed now?--[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 01:23, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
::::All bets are off when you're logged out. Data there can be several days old. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:48, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::Still happening on random pages e.g. [[Skyrim:Reanimate_(spells)]], [[Skyrim:Dungeon_Delving_(Jarl_-_Caves)]] (no Helm of Winterhold thumbnail). Running Chrome here, but (hopefully) not a problem at the user end.--[[User:Lmstearn|Lmstearn]] ([[User talk:Lmstearn|talk]]) 00:56, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
::::::Did someone fix it? The above pages are working now. Logged out/in at the time of the previous message- surely that's not anything to do with it.--[[User:Lmstearn|Lmstearn]] ([[User talk:Lmstearn|talk]]) 05:13, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
{{od}} Someone else mentioned seeing them randomly get fixed, so this may be something intermittent. Whatever it is, it's perplexing both Dave and I. If nothing else, the update to MediaWiki 1.22 will probably resolve, or at least shed more light on, the issue because they've reworked some of the code that's involved with this issue. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:57, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
:Maybe something to do with caching, I have yet to actually see one of these as broken, whether thats because they get fixed before I get online I don't know. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 10:59, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
::This on ([[:File:SurveyResult_Advertising.png]]) has never displayed for me or legoless since it was uploaded. It may be related. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:26, 13 April 2014 (GMT)
:::So, I spent probably close to an hour trying various things, then I asked in the MediaWiki Dev chatroom and someone solved it for me in a couple of minutes. It's not the wiki that's doing that, it's your ad blocker. Mine's doing it in Chrome as well, but when I use Firefox, everything shows up fine. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:47, 14 April 2014 (GMT)
::::As simple as that? So any file with 'Advertising' gets blocked by adblockers? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:52, 14 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::At least some of them, yeah. I don't know if they're all that simplistic. Moving the file fixed the issue for me. Anyone else having any problems? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:01, 14 April 2014 (GMT)
Whatever is causing this, each instance is fixed easily by purging the cache for that page. I spent a couple hours last night purging a few hundred pages with the error (they were easy to find because the error has been around a while and was cached on Google and therefore searchable). The majority were in Skyrim pages. with a lesser amount in Oblivion and Morrowind. And a few in Lore and Online, and about two each in Arena and Daggerfall. Not that the distribution means anything. The error message looks like something was done wrong with an update or install to the thumbnailing software; something was in a different folder than it was before, but it looked for the old one. But I could be completely wrong about that. Far as know, it shouldn't be a continuous problem. We're not seeing it show up with new thumbnails, we were simply noticing it on ones that were already broken. I'm pretty sure I got every single one that was left, but if there's anymore, a simple purge should do it. I hope that helps. –-[[User:Mjr162006|Mjr162006]] ([[User talk:Mjr162006|talk]]) 12:27, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
:Wow, thanks for doing all that, Mjr! It never even occurred to me to comb through our site for them on Google. I think a couple of people reported what appeared to be new instances, but now that you've purged them all, let's see if they continue to pop up or not. Doing another search on Google in a week or so should be a good indicator of whether there's anything new. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:59, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
::New instance on [[UESPWiki:Oblivion Houses Redesign Project|Oblivion Houses Redesign Project]]. Thumbnails were fine, then I refreshed the page and they disappeared. Related? Will purge the page, but thought I'd mention it. --[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 16:19, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
:::Thanks. That would appear to confirm that it's still happening. Were you on a regular server or a mobile one at the time? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:11, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
::::Regular server. A few of the OB houses were affected as well as I was going through them. --[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 17:34, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::Darned if I can reproduce it. This may be something we just have to live with until we upgrade to 1.22, which has a total rewrite of the relevant section of the code. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:46, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
::::::Is there some way to purge the entire system. Sokoro reported that images on SR:Specialty Gear were not creating, but despite both being on Firefox, both restarting our browsers and both bypassing cache to refresh, I could not get the images to disappear while he could not get them to appear. With pages being fixed and then unfixed it appears to me that someone who has the pages cached is breaking thumbnails unintentionally with their bad cache. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 15:05, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
{{od}}If you were both looking at them at the same time, then that very strongly suggests the cache, as you say. I've asked Dave to restart memcached, since I don't have permission to do so, myself. If that ends up not working, then yes, we can force the wiki to regenerate all thumbnails, though I'd imagine that'll put a bit of a load on our servers for a while. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 15:41, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
:Something that I noticed when creating all the ESO place pages - If I was on one of the list pages with all the Place Links on it, and I created or edited one of the individual place pages, if I remembered to Purge the page before going back to the list page, it was fine. But if I omitted that step, the list page had broken links for everything that needed #loading, and nothing would fix it short of going back to the page, Purging it, and then also Purging the list page. So it's possible EditorA edited an article page, and then EditorB looked at the list page before EditorA had a chance to Purge the article, but then EditorA ''did'' eventually Purge the article and went back to the list. So for EditorA, there appears to be no problem, but EditorB, since he never Purged and visited the list page while it was in an un-purged state, now has a cached version of the page with broken links. I think this might explain a lot of the inconsistency. — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 16:30, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
::Dave just restarted memcached, so let's see what that does. As for the #load issue, while that could cause its own problems, I don't see a way for that to cause the ulimit4.sh error. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:41, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
:::I think we have our first solid lead on this. [[User:Moinante|Moinante]] noticed that he got sent to <code>skins2.uesp.net</code> when clicking on a file link instead of staying on <code>www.uesp.net</code> as expected. I don't know for sure why that would happen, and I've written to Dave about it, but quite clearly, if anything forces the page to re-generate thumbnails while on skins2, it causes the now-infamous ulimit4.sh error we've been seeing to appear on www. So, if you happen to notice yourself getting sent to skins2 unexpectedly, please fix the URL to www and if things don't look right, please purge the page. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 23:33, 19 April 2014 (GMT)
::::I'm not sure if this will help, but in perhaps the last 30% or so of the pages on the Google Search when I was fixing as many as I could find the other night, there were quite a few results that were in the skins2 domain. Not sure what that meant, I tried purging it, and nothing happened. I then did what you just suggested and changed it to www instead and purged that page and it worked. Somehow Google's crawlers are getting sent to the skin2 domain with some pages that had this issue. I'm not sure why, or if it's even relevant or helpful, but I figured I'd just mention it just in case.--[[User:Mjr162006|Mjr162006]] ([[User talk:Mjr162006|talk]]) 12:43, 20 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::As a workaround, Dave has installed ImageMagick on the server that hosts skins2.uesp.net (meaning that any thumbnails needed can actually be created now, even if you get sent to skins2). In theory, that should at least prevent any further errors, though as always, refreshing old ones may still be necessary. It doesn't really tell us why the problem is happening in the first place, but Dave's looking into that. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:22, 20 April 2014 (GMT)
{{od}} Well, good news and bad news. The good news is that the old error seems to be gone. The bad news is, there's a new one. Same thing as before with images not displaying, except this time it says ''Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/home/uesp/www/w/images/e/e7/OB-npc-S'mirra.jpg': No such file or directory. convert: missing an image filename `/tmp/transform_2102562-1.jpg'.'' (I copied this from one page, but I've found five with the same error). My browser just shows the normal UESP address. It's really weird, Lore: Alchemy A just had it, and some of the images had errors but others didn't. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 00:13, 22 April 2014 (GMT)
:That's probably a minor configuration error. I've alerted Dave so he can have a look at it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 00:50, 22 April 2014 (GMT)

::I have to say the amount of people commenting on this happening is starting to become too much. Is there anything more can be done to resolve this quicker? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:20, 25 April 2014 (GMT)

:::I don't have access to skins2, so it's up to Dave. <s>If the errors are still occurring, then I can poke him again, but I'd need to know what exactly is happening at this point.</s> Dave's obviously made ''some'' configuration change since Anil's post, since skins2 is no longer available from the web at all. I suspect the current error is just a minor setup issue. I'll poke him again. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:41, 25 April 2014 (GMT)
::::Any news on this? It's affecting the main page now. --[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 08:12, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
:::::Was it the same error of "...unable to open image..."? Just want to make sure I'm not telling Dave the wrong thing. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:54, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
::::::Personally, I see it happening right now on a license template for an ESO NPC image (Error creating thumbnail: convert etc etc). I did a blank save and it fixed itself. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 16:57, 7 May 2014 (GMT)

:The entire page of [[Dragonborn:Places|Dragonborn Places]] is an error. I did not purge it so you could see it. Here's the error message - Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/home/uesp/www/w/images/7/72/SR-mapicon-Temple_of_Miraak.png': No such file or directory.convert: unable to open file `/home/uesp/www/w/images/7/72/SR-mapicon-Temple_of_Miraak.png'. convert: missing an image filename `/tmp/transform_6edfa3-1.png'.--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 18:02, 7 May 2014 (GMT)

::Either someone else purged it or different people are seeing different things, because it looks fine for me when I'm logged in. Logged out, though, I see an older version that's the same as what you saw. I've written to Dave about it.

::Just heard back from Dave and while I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, I just want to confirm. People that are seeing this: you ''are'' logged in when you see the error, right? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:21, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
:::Yes- logged in. So maybe its just me...--[[User:Beezer1029|Beezer1029]] ([[User talk:Beezer1029|talk]]) 18:29, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
::::Can't be just you because I saw it when I logged out. We just wanted to establish if it was happening ''only'' to logged out users, so thanks for the confirmation. Dave and I are still baffled as to the overall cause of the issue, but he should at least be able to temporarily prevent it from happening while we figure out what's going on. It may still occur on newly uploaded images, though. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:59, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
:::::@RH: Yep, it was the "unable to open image" error. I can also confirm that it shows up regardless of whether you're logged in or not. --[[User:Roger|Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger|talk]]) 20:19, 7 May 2014 (GMT)

== Block needed ==

For [http://uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/134.249.52.153 this IP] due to spambot-like nonsense posts please. [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 10:28, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

:Just to follow up here as well, Dave got this a few hours ago. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 13:22, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

::Not sure if this needs a new section, but [http://uesp.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.153.10.122] needs a block. Also, I suggest including "Tramadol" in the spam filter, seems to be in each of this user's edits. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 20:36, 4 April 2014 (GMT)
:::I gave it six hours while we wait on an admin to attend to it, because that IP was rather prolific and did several edits in a row. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 20:45, 4 April 2014 (GMT)
::::TRL got it, thanks Damon! [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 20:47, 4 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::I just added Tramadol to the filter as well. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:13, 4 April 2014 (GMT)

== ESO Data from uespLog ==

I've been trying very hard not to play ESO all day and work on getting the data parser and viewer for all the data being collected by the [[User:Daveh/uespLog_Addon|uespLog addon]]. The first version working is now up at:

::'''[http://content3.uesp.net/esolog/viewlog.php ESO Log Viewer]'''

Note that only books have been parsed at the moment and the interface is just enough to get it working. I've been focusing on getting all the general design/programming done and adding more types will hopefully be added soon relatively quickly. I'll make it look pretty later.

A question for those more familiar with CSList and adding wiki content: What output format(s) would you like this tool to have? I have CSList can output things in a wiki format (I think...I'll have to take a closer look at it). I assume part of the purpose for the tool is to easily mass import data from the log viewer into the wiki and having it output in a wiki format I assume would be desirable. Example work flows of how people use CSList and how they would like to use the ESO log viewer would be helpful along with anything else you can think of. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 01:55, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

:For the bot, I'd rather work with raw data and take care of the wiki formatting myself so that it's easily changed if we need to. So I'm fine with any common format, with CSV probably being the easiest. If it needs to support structured data later on, JSON or XML are also good, with JSON being my preference. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:11, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

== [[Special:Contributions/96.49.236.201|96.49.236.201]] - a longer block, perhaps? ==

May I toss out the suggestion that a month doesn't seem adequate in my opinion, judging from this user's recent behaviour? He came into IRC earlier asking how he can get around his wiki block, then he became hostile when Nocte (at my suggestion) booted him from the IRC for attempting to evade his block. Then, when I botched banning him in IRC, he simply returned and began a lovely string of aggression and name-calling. So, I see conspiracy to evade his wiki ban, evasion of his IRC ban, and etiquette violations for his insults and threats in IRC, not to mention the trouble he caused the last few days leading up to his wiki ban. This one is definitely a troublemaker. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 06:11, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
:Also, can we put a semi-protect on their talk page? A quick look at the history shows a rapid stream of lewd comments in response to my block. [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 06:16, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
::I extended the block to one year for harassing users over IRC, but I left the ability for them to edit their talk page (in case they do wish to appeal). They haven't abused the privilege to edit their own talk page enough to warrant blocking them from it, but if things do get out of hand on their talk page, I'll change that. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 06:57, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
:::Given that the user just removed warnings and blocks from their talk page, I propose that all editing rights for the user be revoked. [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 07:28, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
::::Yeah, I'd consider that abusing their privilege. I've temporarily changed it so they can't edit their talk page. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 07:52, 9 April 2014 (GMT)
:::::Thanks a bunch! Also HI JAK :D [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 08:19, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

== Google plus really annoying ==

That google plus thing right below the search bar? It sucks.

It always loads slower than the rest of the sidebar, which moves around on the page as a result. Often, this means that instead of clicking the forum button, for example, I end up clicking "Contact Us". Instead of "Recent Changes", I click "Featured Articles". It's been grinding my gears for a while, and really makes it difficult to navigate the site the way I like to. Is there any way of getting around this (or, better yet, actually fixing the issue)? [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 19:24, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

:When it was first implemented, I asked Jak Atackka how to remove it, and he told me that if you add <code>#p-googleplus { display:none; }</code> to your common.css page, it will hide the G+ button for you. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 19:50, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

::You've just made my wiki experience about 50% more enjoyable, thank you. [[User:Minor Edits|Minor Edits]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 20:03, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}That annoyed me to0, so I added <code>#p-googleplus { height: 25px; }</code> to my css. Fixing the height stops the bar from jumping around - should we implement something like this globally? --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 09:28, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

:Fixing the height? Go for it. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 09:51, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

== ESO and ON randomly converting to Online ==

Not sure what's caused this, whether it was intentional or otherwise, but when using the search bar to search for things with ESO in their title (eg, [[UESP:ESO Guild]], [[Template:ESO Alliances]]) the search is returning "online" instead (eg, '''UESP:online Guild''', '''Template:online Alliances''') and therefore not directing to the searched-for page. Similarly, some icons in the Place Link template on pages are searching for the file '''online-mapicon-whatever.png''' instead of '''ON-mapicon-whatever.png'''. The file call on the original page however is definitely correct. Thanks, [[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

:Sorry, I was busy with another project today, followed by a migraine, so I'm only seeing this now. I suspect this is related to a [[UESPWiki:Upgrade_History#29_March|search change]] Dave made a couple of weeks ago. If he doesn't get to it before then, I'll have a look at it tomorrow. Can you point out a couple of Place Links that have the problem? I tried randomly looking at a few and wasn't able to find any that were doing this. Thanks! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:43, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

::Yeah I would say that search change is the cause of this. I can't actually find any Place Links with that problem any more, so maybe that part has sorted itself out. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 08:45, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

:::The search thing was just a quick fix with the obvious issues. Perhaps limiting it to just replacing the first word if its "eso" or only explicit namespaces with the colon (ESO:). Although if we're going to be switching to ESO as the main namespace this is a temporary fix anyways. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 10:21, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

::::Okay, I've got a fix up on [http://content3.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch content3] (I can't confine it to the development server, since dev doesn't have MWSearch installed). Can someone poke at it and see if there are any major issues with it? The way I've set it up, if you try to go to a page like "Template:Factions in ESO" by typing it into the search bar on the left-menu, you'll automatically get redirected to "[[Template:Factions in Online]]". If you do the same from the actual search page, the "ESO" part will get auto-converted to "(ESO OR Online)", which will search for either term. The new term will be displayed in the search bar, but the link will still display as expected. If there's a way to get MediaWiki/MWSearch to just consider the terms equivalent without modifying the search itself, I can't find it, so my solution is definitely still a bit of a kludge, but I think it'll get us where we want to go. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:27, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

:::::Yeah, I would say that works. At least, I think it does what I wanted   :P   [[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:32, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

::::::Okay, this is now implemented across all our servers (after bringing down mobile momentarily...apologies for the brief interruption of service for anyone affected). – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:39, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

== Image licensing ==

We may need to adjust the wording on our image licenses. Currently, the only license that properly describes images taken from Elder Scrolls Online is the [[Template:zenimage|zenimage]] license. The [[Template:uespimage|uespimage]] license only includes Bethesda in its wording, and ESO is NOT created by Bethesda, but by its parent company, Zenimax. We either need a new license that applies to screenshots taken from ESO, or we need to reword the "uespimage" to include Zenimax images as well. I'm hesitant to make changes to existing licenses, as it could be construed as invalidating the thousands of images already using that license. I'm no lawyer, but I feel that the current choice of licenses does not provide a means of doing this properly, so we need to put something together that handles this situation. (And yes, I'm aware that "uespimage" has a parameter for specifying the company, but you can't choose this from the dropdown list, so it's next to useless, as the majority of editors won't know about it, and even if they do, it requires an additional edit after uploading for every file.) — [[User:TheRealLurlock|TheRealLurlock]] ([[User talk:TheRealLurlock|talk]]) 11:52, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:It also defaults to Zenimax if the image starts with File:ON, so there should be very few cases where it an extra edit is needed. An extra option on the dropdown list would be an option, as its done with other templates and simply adds the parameter '|zenimax' to the end of the template. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 11:58, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:: An extra dropdown would be nice. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 15:01, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:::What about just using and/or wording to cover both common cases? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:10, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

::::We could just use the company that owns the series and all the studios and publishers (including the old and now defunct ones (such as Vir2L), [[General:ZeniMax Media|ZeniMax Media]]. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 16:16, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:::::We could also change it to games produced by Bethesda Softworks (which also covers them all, I believe). [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 16:21, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

::::::Stormhold, Shadowkey, and Oblivion Mobile, are not published by Bethesda Softworks, and Trademarks were filed under ZeniMax Media for both Skyrim and ESO. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 16:28, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

:::::::Due to the fact that uespimage automatically switches to Zenimax Online when the filename starts with ON (as Silencer said), I do not see any need for anything to be changed, unless we want to add switches for Stormhold, Shadowkey and ObMob to it as well. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 18:17, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

== Hide Summaries ==

Can someone hide the summaries and revisions by [[Special:Contributions/150.214.205.156|this user]] to deny them what they seek. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:45, 23 April 2014 (GMT)

:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:15, 23 April 2014 (GMT)

== block request ==

[[Special:Contributions/137.175.96.221|137.175.96.221]] repeats creating new nonsens pages. --[[User:The Nerevarine|The Nerevarine]] ([[User talk:The Nerevarine|talk]]) 06:34, 26 April 2014 (GMT)

:{{User:Jeancey/Ah}} [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 07:33, 26 April 2014 (GMT)

:::Thanks. I recognised you also deleted the pages created by that IP. There is one left: {{deleted|UESPWiki talk:Administrator Noticeboard/Archives/Server Monitoring}} --[[User:The Nerevarine|The Nerevarine]] ([[User talk:The Nerevarine|talk]]) 13:04, 26 April 2014 (GMT)

== ESOMod ==

The new [[ESOMod:Main Page|ESOMod]] namespace still needs a checkbox in the Advanced search options. Maybe under the 'Online' header? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 21:39, 8 May 2014 (GMT)

:I think I got it but it's not showing the change just yet. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:38, 16 May 2014 (GMT)

::Done now. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:38, 16 May 2014 (GMT)

== Block needed for a "very nice site!" bot ==

[[User:148.251.111.46]] [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 12:21, 20 May 2014 (GMT)

:Done! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 13:28, 20 May 2014 (GMT)

::And on a related note, can the targeted page ([[Oblivion:Steel-Blue Entoloma Cap]]) get some protection for now (4 IPs and 3 different types of bot). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 18:37, 20 May 2014 (GMT)

:::Also done. I was going to change our Abuse Filter as well, but I see you've already done that. I'll have another look at our abuse logs, though, and see if there are IPs that need blocked as well. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:30, 20 May 2014 (GMT)

== Name Change? ==

Hey admins, I found a new username I like better than my own. Per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:UNC&redirect=no Wikipedia's] namechange policy, I'd like to request my username be changed to RosaNoctisMelos. The username is not on our current [http://uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3AListUsers&username=rosa&group=&limit=100 user list]. To be fully upfront and honest, I'm doing this pretty much because I feel like a new username. If that's grounds for denying my request, I can respect that. But I'd definitely appreciate consideration! :D [[User:Nocte_Canticum|--Nocte|]][[User_talk:Nocte_Canticum|Chat|]][[Special:Contributions/Nocte_Canticum|Look]] 12:01, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

:In line with the fact that you're changing your name just because you want to, I'll do it just because I've never done a user rename before. ;) Or, from the more serious, adminny perspective: there's nothing in policy that says anything about it that I can find, though if someone starts asking to change their name every week, I'm pretty sure we'll develop one in a hurry! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:53, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

::No complaints, though I agree users should find a name and stick to it. The [[Wikipedia:WP:Changing_username/Guidelines|policy guidelines]] already cover this though, but it is always at the admins discretion. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:54, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

== ESO Craglorn Images ==

I've uploaded the complete set of ESO images from yesterday's big Craglorn patch:

:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esoart-may.zip EsoArt.zip (85 MB)] -- All artwork/icons from eso.mnf and game.mnf
:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esolang-may.zip EsoLang.zip (45 MB)] -- All three language files in CSV format (uses ''`'' (tilde) as the field seperator).
:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esoloadscreens-may.zip EsoLoadScreens.zip (55 MB)] -- Loading screens
:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esomaps-may.zip EsoMaps.zip (61 MB)] -- Combined maps (558 maps that could be exported automatically)
:* [http://content3.uesp.net/eso/esotreasuremaps-may.zip EsoTreasureMaps.zip 174 MB()] -- Treasure maps (full sized)

Like last time each ZIP contains a ''...diff.txt'' file detailing what has changed from the set of last uploaded files shortly after ESO launch. The updated map tiles are on the [http://content3.uesp.net/esomap/esomap.html ESO Dev Map] and the Craglorn map database entries will be added shortly. If everything appears to look/work ok it will be pushed to the live map as soon as possible.
-- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 13:11, 23 May 2014 (GMT)

:Change of plan...am updating the map tiles on the live ESO site as I can't add the new map database entries without the map tiles being present. If anyone notices any issues with the map tiles let me know. -- [[User:Daveh|Daveh]] [[User_talk:Daveh|(talk)]] 13:30, 23 May 2014 (GMT)

== Protection of [[Dragonborn_talk:Easter_Eggs/Archive_2]] ==

Please and thank you. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 15:18, 27 May 2014 (GMT)

:Bot's on it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 16:38, 27 May 2014 (GMT)

== Block needed for spammer ==

[[User:107.150.45.108]] [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 12:42, 28 May 2014 (GMT)

:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:50, 28 May 2014 (GMT)

== ESO Temporary Admins ==

Elder Scrolls Online continues to dominate the recent changes so the caveat on when to review the status isn't quite met. However, Alfwyn and Jak have not been around enough or made any sort of edits that suggest they have any use for the administrative rights (in Jak's case he hasn't made an edit the entire time he has been an admin). It's now over two months since ESO came out and as with the other temporary changes this is a good time for a review. I'll be notifying these two about the review on their talk pages, while Jeancey (who has made a considerable contribution to the Online namespace) has been notified in the IRC, though he has shown he can use and does use the rights wisely, and shouldn't (in my opinion) have the rights removed yet as TESO is nowhere near documented enough. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 02:17, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

:I would also be in favour of leaving Jeancey's rights for the time being, since my recovery looks to be about on schedule for end of June before I feel fully functional again. He's certainly been doing appropriate administrative duties (when the rest of us have left him something to do, anyway <g>) since his temporary adminship started. Alternatively, he could just run for admin, though as I recall the terms of our original agreement, that would mean he'd have to step down from those duties until the admin nomination was complete. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:02, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

::Please remove my rights. I've been too busy with real-life (hellish semester and now a full-time job) to play ESO, let alone edit the wiki (though I have been watching it). At this point I'm unsure whether I'll return to the wiki any time this year. I didn't really want the rights to begin with, so I have no reason to keep them now. As for the other temp admins, I agree that Alfwyn isn't active enough to keep his rights (unless he makes a strong case to keep them, we'll see). Jeancey has done a good job keeping up his activity and has used his admin rights on occasion. Combined with his overall good judgment and application of said rights, I think he should keep them. At least one good admin should come out of this exercise :P. • [[User:Jak Atackka|JA]][[User talk:Jak Atackka|T]] 05:02, 11 June 2014 (GMT)
:::Agreed. We need someone like Jeancey to keep those rights, even if it's only for a short time (although he could keep them longer...). Alfwyn is a great editor, but I think his low activity means he'd be better suited for regular patroller duties. [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 12:13, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

::::With all the work he's been doing, it would almost be detrimental to take away his admin rights right now. As for Alfwyn, I don't see how it would be a bad thing to let him keep his rights. If he happens to come back, then he can do stuff, and if he doesn't everything would be just as before. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 14:16, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

:::::I concur with everyone else on Jeancey, he's been doing the bulk of the ESO work and has done it well. The other two should lose their rights, no reason for them to have admin rights they aren't going to use imo. --[[User:Anil|AN|L]] ([[User talk:Anil|talk]]) 14:40, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}I agree with Anil that Jeancey should keep his rights, given all the work he is doing. Even after we have documented everything for ESO, I personally wouldn't be opposed to Jeancey becoming a permanent administrator. I haven't really seen Alfwyn on the recent changes, which tells me that he is inactive and has no need for the rights. I think if he wants them later, he should make a case for them like most have to do. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 15:43, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

== Request for Semi-Protection of Online Easter Eggs page ==

Per the usual practice, can we get some semiprotection on the ESO eggs page? [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 00:34, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

:For the record, only 2 anons have edited the page, and they only made small tweaks. I'm not really ''against'' semiprotection, but there doesn't seem to be a need for it at the moment. [[User:Minor Edits|Insignificant Revisions]][[User_talk:Minor Edits|Threats]]•[[Special:Contributions/Minor Edits|Evidence]] 02:11, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

::I'd agree with Minor Edits. It's not a problem that can't be handled at the moment. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 10:52, 26 June 2014 (GMT)
:::True, it's not an immediate issue, but it can only help. An ounce of prevention and all that. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 14:35, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

::::Thank you for your diligence with Easter Eggs as always, Thuum. I understand your concern, and while it will surely need protection eventually, I would prefer to wait until there is a more clear need for this protection. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 14:37, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

== File Protection Request ==

[[:File:Mainpage-logo.jpg]] has once again been edited incorrectly. There shouldn't be any sort of loophole to editing the main page so this needs semi-protection. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 15:16, 28 June 2014 (GMT)
:I've given it a mostly admin only-protection, due to it being an important file. But if anyone disagrees... ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 16:41, 28 June 2014 (GMT)

:: I've bumped it up to full protection, since it's [[UESPWiki:Protection Policy|site policy]] to "[maintain] the integrity of the site logo". —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 16:52, 28 June 2014 (GMT)
:::Oh, sorry, I should've known. Thanks ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 16:56, 28 June 2014 (GMT)

== Jilan-dar ==

The page [[ON:Jilan-dar]] has a bad history with many diffs not related to the page, can an admin delete these please. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:15, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

:Done. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:43, 3 July 2014 (GMT)
::You can hide edits, have you tried that? You wouldn't have to delete and restore then ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 19:47, 3 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Hiding edits still shows the entry in the history, though. I figured delete and restore was cleaner. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:50, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

== Block Needed 2==

[[User:173.31.218.28]] --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 18:06, 10 July 2014 (GMT)

:Done. Thanks for letting us know! – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:24, 10 July 2014 (GMT)

== Blockers ==

A user contacted me recently to request [[Project:Blockuser|blocker]] privileges, but even though the Blockuser page says nothing about it, I felt that I had to deny them based on the fact that they weren't a patroller. While it wasn't the original intent of the blockers group, for probably the last two years or so, the de facto rule has been that it's given only to senior patrollers. Does anybody have any objections if I update the Blockuser page to say that?

(''History lesson, as closely as I remember it:'' the original intent of the group was that during slow periods, when there was only one admin and he/she was logging off, that admin would temporarily grant the Blockers right to a patroller or other long-term user just until another admin showed up, at which point the right would be removed again. Over time, admins found it too much of a hassle to constantly add and remove the right, and started leaving it in place for a couple of senior patrollers. (This may have been a specific suggestion by someone or it may just have happened naturally over time, I don't recall.) That, in turn, led to the perception that it was for patrollers only, which in turn became the de facto reality it is now.) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:37, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

:Sounds like a good idea. If a user hasn't been trusted with patroller powers yet, they probably shouldn't be given blocker privileges since those powers require greater responsibility. They should first demonstrate their trustworthiness as a patroller before being given a power that is typically reserved to only administrators. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 03:43, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

::A verbal recommendation that they be trusted users is certainly not a bad thing, and while there aren't many active these days on my radar, over the years I've seen numerous people who could be trusted, and aren't proper Recent Changes Patrollers out of disinterest or other rights arrangements.

::That said, there is nothing wrong with putting up a recommendation that they be trusted in some way. Since the is a responding admin discretion call, I don't feel like it has to be a hard and fast rule, personally as if it were a voted in position, if that makes sense. However, if multiple people were wanting the position and we were in a position where there weren't a handful of admins and the small handful of us who are active (or in my case, not editing but still watching the RC and IRCing), I would say give it first to someone who has a position on the site over a regular no-rights user, if my thought makes sense. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 04:25, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

::: I think it's best to leave it to admin discretion. Like Damon said, some senior editors are disinterested in patrollership. As a compromise, what about a requirement to be either a patroller ''or'' autopatrolled? That would ensure a certain level of community trust without such a specific requirement. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 14:51, 16 July 2014 (GMT)
::::That's a good point to start from. I do agree that there has to be a prerequisite of being either patrolled or autopatrolled to establish trustworthiness, but we also have to consider that being a blocker is a lot bigger responsibility than patrolling and has much less room for error. A bad edit mistakenly marked as patrolled isn't a huge deal, but a block given out unfairly can lead to some pretty nasty and heated arguments, even if it's only temporary and is undone quickly. To that end, it might not be a bad idea to have some other requirements. We don't want to give blocker rights to just anyone, even among users trusted as patrollers. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 15:08, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

== The Silencer's Personal Attacks ==

Because [[User:The Silencer|The Silencer]] issued several personal attacks against Biffa in [[User_Talk:Biffa#Inaccurate Testing|this]] conversation, I was forced to give him a [[User_Talk:The Silencer#Warning|warning]]. The attacks clearly violated the etiquette policy; due to actions like that, I believe that Silencer is not fit for the rights he currently has. This is not the first time he has either risked, or has alienated other users, and I worry that it will not be the last. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 01:02, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:I don't know that I agree with an outright removal of his rights just yet; for now, a warning should be sufficient. For what it's worth though, the warning was spot-on. In fact, I was on the verge of giving him one myself. It's probably a bit soon for a request like this, but I agree that the sorts of comments that Silencer made are inexcusable for someone who's been a patroller as long as he has. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 01:10, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::My problem is that on the Patroller page is mentions that you cannot apply after recieving a warning for one month. I took that to mean if any patroller gets a warning their rights will be removed. If not, then I misunderstood it. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 01:15, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::I would also like to point out that I am a firm believer in the [[UESPWiki:Etiquette|etiquette policy]] and I find that the removal of rights is better than being blocked like the policy says. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 01:38, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:::I did not attack Biffa at all, definitely nothing that comes under or near the [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:NPA#What_is_considered_to_be_a_personal_attack.3F|listed ones on wikipedia]], I questioned his testing methods, which [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Pinewatch&diff=prev&oldid=1368908 as he claims are accurate] but have been proven inaccurate and unreliable many times over I have every right to call him out on. I have previously tried to engage him on the matter only to be ignored and mocked. so I told him to stop clinging to the claim. Breaking etiquette is not grounds for a warning on its own, especially when the people giving it refuse to acknowledge the background to the situation. Biffa accused me of having a vendetta against him, and says I've "gone out of your way to make thing unpleasant for me on this site." (both thoroughly inaccurate). The only thing that I said was his 'continued bull-headedness'. So how come I get the warning? Is it for asking him to stop spreading a falsehood, for trying to show him how his claims were wrong. Should I have to care about the emotional well-being of fairly anonymous people on the other side of the world. Am I not allowed to defend myself when people things I didn't even say? I've only ever had issues with two other editors on the site, and you'd be extremely hard-pressed to find anyone that thinks we'd be better off with those two editors continuing the path they trod (one of whom's entire contributions were eventually found to be wrong and deliberately so). So if you're going to warn me, warn me for something I did, not something you have interpreted through a complete misreading of the situation. This is a formal request for an administrator to review the warning and remove it or keep it. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:40, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::::I agree with dom on this one. If one of the qualifications to become a patroller is to not have any warnings otherwise you need to wait a month. Why then should someone who is a patroller not have it stripped for getting a warning? I think it's only fair to punish patrollers just as much as non-patrollers [[User:Lorenut|Lorenut]] ([[User talk:Lorenut|talk]]) 01:45, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:::::Since I seem to be the only admin around at the moment, or at least who's responding to this situation, I'd like to suggest we give Silencer a little time to collect his thoughts. In addition to the options presented above, an [[Project:Interaction Ban|interaction ban]] is also a possibility, though that can be difficult to manage with two prolific editors. Barring any further etiquette violations, I'd like to suggest that we not do anything precipitous. I'll send a message to the other active admins to discuss appropriate follow-up actions. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:50, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}{{ec}}"''continued bull-headedness that refuses to countenance that you are fallible''" "''I really don't care about your feelings''" "''There will always be another editor to take the mantle of filling in pages.''" "''Congratulations everyone on taking the stance that the tone of the message means far more than the message itself.''" Those are your words from that conversation. From the Wikipedia article you cited: "These examples are not exhaustive. Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack ''regardless of the manner in which it is done''." (Emphasis taken from Wikipedia). Your edits, while being well-intentioned, ended up being condescending, rude, and potentially hurtful to Biffa. As our Etiquette policy says, "Personal attacks are grounds for an immediate block.". Furthermore, "Who's right and who's wrong is less important than treating others with respect. "But he/she was wrong!" is not an excuse for treating someone poorly." You showed a clear lack of respect for Biffa with those comments. If you believe he wronged you, I implore you to follow RobinHood's advice and talk to him or another administrator about it. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 01:55, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

: {{ec|2}} I've reviewed the discussion on Biffa's talk page, and I agree with the warning. This isn't the first time The Silencer has been abrasive towards other editors, but I believe this was a step too far. Despite the point trying to be made, or who has the right of it, or the experience/rights of the editors involved, common etiquette should be of paramount importance and an overly passive-aggressive attitude should not be tolerated. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 01:56, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::Two of those comments were not aimed at Biffa, and the warning was for attacking Biffa. Please please find me something that says I have to care about an editors feelings. He brought his feelings up in the conversation, so they were there to be pushed away from it. How does 'There will always be another editor' constitute an attack? You quote me but you do not explain how these are attacks. I am accused of having a vendetta with no shred of proof to back it up. That is an attack under 'Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence.' Being given a warning by someone who doesn't know the situation, or care enough to ask me to explain any of my claims is utterly outrageous. I do not accept this warning on the basis put forward as it lacks evidence, thought, or carefully applied policies. It is a kneejerk action to a situation that did not call for it, where I did not break any rules where a warning is an immediate reaction, where fault is being applied fairly. Everything I am accused of can be said of Biffa in equal measure and I am appalled that people would blindly misread my words to apply meanings that are not there. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 02:16, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Are we really going to do this? Because I'm not going to do this. According to your userpage, you're 5 years older than I am. That's old enough that I shouldn't have to explain to you why it's important to be nice to people. So I'm not going to. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 02:28, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::::{{ec}} The way I view "There will always be another editor" is you were saying that he is unneeded on this wiki. You don't have to care about anyone's feelings. You just have to be kind enough to them that it doesn't seem like an attack. I am uninvolved in that discussion, so when I saw it I immediately thought of it as you putting him down. The warning was not a quick reaction from me. I thought very carefully about it and reviewed what was said. Even when I was about to post the warning I hesitated and made sure that it was a valid one. I do apologize if you feel offended at me giving you a warning. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 02:33, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:::::The Silencer, the point here is that regardless of the quality of Biffa's edits or testing, what happened here is that someone was making good-faith edits to the wiki and you responded with unnecessary confrontation that quickly devolved into rudeness. The way we interact with each other matters. People don't stick around in hostile environments, and when we need every good editor we can get for as long as we can get them. If we aren't mindful of the emotional well-being of fairly anonymous people on the other side of the world, we don't work together, and if we don't work together, we aren't the best anymore.

:::::Sure, we do warn people that their work will be edited mercilessly, but that doesn't mean we get to be so blatantly rude when we talk to each other about edits. Sometimes you have to say something that someone won't want to hear, and that comes with the territory; however, how your initial message could be read as anything but hurtful is really beyond me...and it just gets worse from there. I'm also a bit surprised that you didn't let someone else approach the conversation if you've raised your concerns and had conflicts in the past.

:::::Now, since it's late for many of us, I'm going to recommend everyone take a break from this. We can refocus our energy on how to handle this once people have had a chance to cool down. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 02:54, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

{{od}} {{ec}}I'm inclined to agree as well with the evidence put forward that The Silencer was a little too forward and aggressive towards Biffa. If I was the one responding, I wouldn't have given a warning and would have talked the situation down and eases tensions without such drastic action and discussion of things like rights removals and warnings, it was none the less completely justified. Silencer certainly needs to be politely reminded that he needs to watch what he says, but I think that a more cautious and calm approach to this discussion is needed going forward, because things are certainly tense, even in this rights discussion. -[[User:Damon|damon]]  [[User_talk:Damon|talk]] &hearts; [[Special:Contributions/Damon|contribs]] 03:14, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:{{ec}}Yes we are, because this is about being given a warning partly for saying I don't care about someone's feelings and being told I should. I tried to talk and all I got was hostility and accusations. How about people read Biffa's replies to any of my messages on the wiki, where all I get is sarcasm, ignorance, and hate, and try to understand that bull-headed is a very tame reaction to what is spouted in my direction. All I'm getting here is that I shouldn't have bothered trying to find a solution or confront someone on a blatant untruth, that it's better to be nice and wrong, than blunt and right. The truth isn't allowed now? There will always be another editor, just as there'll be other patrollers and admins. You applied a reason to something you didn't understand, didn't consult me on it's meaning, and gave me a warning, that is not a good train of thought. Your uninvolvement is exactly the problem, were you aware of why my opening post was worded like a reply, did you take the time to follow the story back longer than the last few hours? You have taken my words out of context, applied wholly different meanings, not taken any time to find out why a 'senior' (as in someone who's been around so long) editor would act in such a way, and taken an arbitrary and blunt approach to resolving a situation that arose. The same can be said for Thuum intersecting an argument and helping to divert it away from its intent with a couple of paragraphs on my behaviour that would have been more appropriate on my talk page (not to mention the continued applied reasons to words I didn't even say). While not exactly unbiased in this situation, there is still nothing that approaches breaking the personal attacks policy, unless it now includes discussing an editors methods and reasoning when they can be proven wrong. [ec eshe reply] Sure, when taken out of context and read on it's own it seems rude, but anyone who was considering giving a warning should look to see why someone would act like that, and they would see it was a response to a claim he made while undoing an edit of mine, thus taken in context it loses its rudeness, or how else does one say 'what you do isn't what you claim'. Seeing as the warning is going to stay, I don't have much interest in what else happens here, especially if people refuse to allow context its rightful place. Biffa's reactions have cause this, no-one else is interested in getting involved, no-one patrols his major edits or tries to correct him, else they face an immediate interrogation on their reasoning for it. I was given neither the time or place to explain or prove my accusations, I was instead told to shut up stop questioning people who are wrong 'for the good of the wiki'. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 03:19, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::Despite what Biffa and others may have done, issuing personal attacks wasn't the correct response. In my opinion, since you have a problem with what Biffa has said to/about you, you should contact an administrator and explain how you feel. Even in context, your remarks are rude. Rude is always rude, regardless of what caused the actions. Sometimes, rudeness is understandable and can be overlooked. In this case, I tried to defuse the situation by suggesting you both step back and take a breather. After that failed, I waited to see what else would be said and eventually came to the conclusion that a warning is needed because of etiquette policy violations. In hindsight, the reason I put on the warning was not the exact one that should have been used (The one that was placed was too specific), in my opinion. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 03:45, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Can I just say that, looking at the conversation Dom referenced above, Biffa slings some mud too? I will not disagree that Silencer's tone could be perceived as abrasive, but to be honest so can Biffa's. Silencer is a patroller, and patrollers are held to high standards true, but I think we need to recognise that both parties were at fault here. I have mixed feelings regarding the validity of the warning issued to Silencer, but I am vehemently opposed to even proposing that his rights be revoked. It is important to recognise that we are all human, here. None of us are perfect, and any one of us can get too passionate about a discussion. I do agree with eshe, though - a break from this would be a good idea. -- [[User:RosaNoctisMelos|RNM]]|[[User_talk:RosaNoctisMelos|T]] 07:28, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
::::I think most of us are in agreement at this point that some regrettable things were said in that discussion, and that a warning is the only thing that needs to come out of this. There's not much point in continuing to rehash the same things that have already been said and explained, so I suggest that we all just take whatever lessons need to be taken from this and move on so we can get back to editing without distractions. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 11:56, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::It seems clear that no-one is familiar with the policy I have supposedly broken, which actively discourages slinging warnings about in dealing with it. I completely and utterly refute the accusation I have personally attacked Biffa, you have taken my words out of context, applied your own meanings to them (not my meanings), applied them to a policy that it doesn't break, and incorrectly applied said policy. Are people happy to blindly avoid the truth of my statement? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:48, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
===Edit Break 1===
{{od}}No one is ignoring the truth of your statement(s). Can you show me where the policy discourages "slinging warnings"? The words you said were construed as personal attacks, by myself and several other "senior" (Be around longer) editors. If you intention was not to attack him, why did you not (From what I could tell, and I could be wrong here, my apologies if I am) take a break from the discussion once it started to become heated? Personal attacks, hostility, and aggressive behavior cannot be tolerated on the wiki. It just causes a negative atmosphere that makes people less likely to want to contribute. I was hoping that as a senior editor, you would notice your behavior and apologize or correct it, or something. I would also like to point out that I find your edit summaries to be negative and unneeded. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 18:41, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:I think at this point it's safe to say that your words were rude, The Silencer. Regardless of how you meant them, everyone who's commented on this believes they were rude, which is a pretty good indicator that they indeed were. I'll give you a bit of advice, because I have the same problem at time: Think about what you've written before you save it. If it seems like someone ''might'' take offense, hit cancel. If you feel your comments are truly needed, ask someone else privately to review it first. Voila, we avoid all of this. <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|DimeCadmium]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|...!!1!]] 18:54, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::Your comment shows the truth of how little you know about the policy [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:NPA#Responding_to_personal_attacks|here]] (our only policy on attacks is that you can be blocked so we defer to wikipedia). I don't know what that intelligence that comment on 'taking a break' has when you cite my opening post as being a personal attack. I'll ignore your comment on my edit summaries as it doesn't help at all, and I find your manipulation of my words to suit your needs a far more offensive crime than my irreverent yet accurate summaries. Until someone responds intelligently to my requests to review the situation I hold you all in contempt. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 18:59, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:::Yes, Biffa said things he shouldn't have. But that's not relevant - two lefts don't make a right, and two wrongs don't either.
:::Your comments were (in my opinion and most others', judging from the above) '''extremely''' derogatory, if not downright disrespectful or rude. And I can't speak for anyone else, but I've felt the same about comments you've made elsewhere in the past. Whether it's against policy or not, it's not a good atmosphere to have on a wiki - especially when it's made by someone in a position of authority. As you say on your own userpage, the most important pillar of any wiki is that "If the rules prevent you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore them.".
:::To me, personally, your initial comment on Biffa's talk page reads like this: "You're stupid for thinking your testing is up to scratch." Maybe your message was different, but that's the message I (and again I think most others') got from it, which is the important part: perception. Intent needs to be considered, but perception is more important. <nowiki>~</nowiki>[[User:DimeCadmium|DimeCadmium]][[User talk:DimeCadmium|...!!1!]] 19:10, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
{{ec}}How about this, then? There have been multiple users, myself included, who have attempted to put an end to this and ask everyone to move on. At this point, we're only giving you a warning. Let's not continue the discussion and risk necessitating further action. I'm going to politely request for a second time that we all just let this die down before it gets worse. In the interest of ending this, I think that everyone should refrain from commenting unless they have some vitally important revelations. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 19:12, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

::::How about someone actually reviews the situation and doesn't filibuster and outright lie in order to keep this warning on my page that is neither merited or correct. I'd rather end up banned than accept a warning based on lies and manipulation, so how about you go away and let an administrator respond without having to diffuse your inflammatory remarks insisting that I lie down and take it. Everyone here has fallen for the meanings put forward by other users insisting that this is what I mean, how about you all stop putting words in my mouth and actually use your own eyes. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:18, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::You know, I'm trying to give you a break here. I'm trying to help defuse tension so that YOU can keep your rights. But if your response is to throw that in my face and tell me that I need to go away and let the admins tell you what they've already told you again, then maybe you SHOULD lose your rights. Throughout all of this, you could have walked away at any point. You could have shown some humility, you could have apologized. Instead, you've told several other patrollers (and 3 admins) that we're wrong and that we don't know what we're talking about. Your comments in this discussion and your disrespect for the consensus of the community are already approaching another etiquette violation, if they haven't crossed that line already. I'm done commenting on this, and I'm done defending you. If you would really rather be banned than keep your rights, I have no objections. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 19:26, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::: Okay, this needs to stop. I think everybody has spoken, and Silencer has defended himself more than plenty. Rest assured that all administrators are dealing with this at the moment (on e-mail), so please calm down and take a break from this discussion. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] ([[User talk:Krusty|talk]]) 19:28, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::::You call that defending me? Every statement you've made slanders me, encourages me to accept the lies being told against me and allow this travesty to stand. Wouldn't you love to find me in breach of etiquette and warn me (which isn't an appropriate response per the policy) while I try to defend myself from the lies, just remember that as you are an involved editor you shouldn't be giving the warning yourself, I'll even allow you to take my words and make entire sentences up to support your position seeing as everyone else agrees that that is now acceptable. Do you know whats worse than being right? Being silenced because of it. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:36, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

{{ec}}I fail to see what truth your statements hold. Your initial post suggests that Biffa's testing methods are "fatally flawed", which is certainly not true. If his methods were that inaccurate, it would have been noticed and addressed by now. I'm not suggesting that his methods are perfect and that your advice of having him share his methods would not help out, but to suggest that the majority of the information he contributes is flawed is far from true. You then go on to point out some vague errors with the Goldenglow Estate page rather than pointing out specific items or actually fixing these supposed errors on the page itself that you so clearly were able to identify by just quickly glancing at the page. If he makes so many errors, why not just correct them yourself to make your point? If you actually give him solid evidence that his methods are flawed, he would most likely be more willing to share his methods with you. Your intentions in trying to help an editor improve the quality of his work are certainly good, but just blindly stating that their work is flawed without actual evidence to support your claim is far from a good way to go about this and such statements really don't have much truth.

You then go on and suggest that Biffa should go and look at the patrol log to see how many of his large content edits have not been patrolled. This, you suggest, shows that the patrollers are not happy with the quality of the page yet. You've been around here longer than me, so I don't think I have to tell you that the large majority of page revamps stay unpatrolled for a long amount of time. Some of these edits don't even get patrolled. To the best of my recollection, most of my Oblivion and Skyrim NPC edits and OPRP edits before I became autopatrolled often went unpatrolled and some probably were never patrolled. This is largely due to the fact that some patrollers do not have the time/are not knowledgeable enough about the type of page or the associated project to patrol said edits, not because the revamp contains a number of major flaws. The project of the associated page type serves as the patroller of the content of these types of edits, allowing errors of the initial revamp to be corrected such as a patroller would do. So your "test" that you suggest to Biffa to allow him to see the "fatally flawed" nature of his edits is quite a flawed one and such a statement really holds no truth.

So you may suggest that everyone here is ignoring the truth of your statements, but the fact is that your statements really don't hold much truth. While your suggestion that Biffa share his testing methods so that the flaws in them can be found in them may be a good suggestion, you fail to provide any evidence that his testing methods contain flaws. Rather than just telling him that all the hard work he has put into his pages is flawed, provide evidence of his mistakes in a less hostile manner and he may be willing to recognize his mistakes and share his methods with you so that he can become more accurate. [[User:Forfeit|Forfeit]] ([[User talk:Forfeit|talk]]) 19:40, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

:{{ec}} I think that's quite enough from everyone. Everyone's input is appreciated, but nothing productive is coming from this right now. Now is the time to step away, before things escalate any more absurdly than they already have. There do not need to be blocks going out here, but if people are determined to keep fighting over this, we can certainly change that. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 19:43, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

===Edit Break 2===
::Has there been a decision yet? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:54, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::My e-mail to you a couple of weeks ago was intended as the final discussion of the matter. There will be no blocks issued and no rights removed. The warning will stand, however, as a reminder that courtesy and patience are expected from all our editors, but most especially those who represent the wiki as staff. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 19:45, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::Your email was worded as how the discussion was heading not an end, also it does not serve as a suitable response to this issue and I request that either it is copied here or something more appropriate is typed out. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:53, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::::There was little other discussion of note after my e-mail, and I tried to cover everything that needed to be covered. If you have concerns about Biffa's editing, then we can discuss that as a separate issue, either by e-mail or publicly. Considering that the last time you discussed this publicly, it resulted in a warning, I'd suggest the former.

:::::The original request was to have your rights removed as a result of the warning. My response covered the validity of the warning and whether or not your rights should be removed as a result. What more do you feel is needed here? – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 20:07, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::::The email treats the issue with a degree of familiarity that is inappropriate in such cases. What I got out of it was that the admins planned to leave the warning, on the grounds that it looked like I crossed the line elsewhere, not for the reasons for which it was given, which is so wrong it hurts. It appears I wasn't found guilty of breaching a policy that demanded a warning, but it was left because I choose to vigorously defend myself against people and admins that were not taking the time to actually look at the whole thing and just following the party line. I wasn't given a chance to explain myself, or asked to, and I have been found guilty in closed session, by people afraid to air their opinions in public and respond intelligently to my requests. Many people appear to have an agenda against me, simply for being able to find flaws in their thinking or proposals, with my words being twisted and given alternate meanings time and again (an action acknowledged by one user who did so). Having a warning left in place when I have been found not guilty of the offence, nevermind that the policy itself was incorrectly applied and a warning was inappropriate even if I had broken it, calls into question the suitability of everyone involved to continue as an administrator and have any authority in what they do. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:39, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::::: You were warned for a lack of etiquette in the discussion with Biffa, not for defending yourself. Multiple admins have contacted you privately to listen to your side of the story. This discussion is about your suitability to possess the rights given to you, so I don't feel you're in a position to call into question the authority of the admins who are dealing with this. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 21:06, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}{{ec}}No, the warning remains in place because you earned it with your actions during your interaction with Biffa. You made your case more than once; while everyone involved in this discussion agrees that you acted inappropriately, as you can see above, there really wasn't much support for the proposal to remove your rights. We chose not to block you because the warning seemed sufficient (in other words, the standard three-step process seems suitable here). This isn't a jury, Silencer, and there's no closed session. Not a single user in the conversation above agrees with your claim that you did nothing wrong, and that's why you still have a warning on your page.

The issue here (the reason why you were given the warning, why the warning is staying, and why this topic exists at all on this board) is that several users have had an issue with the way you treat others in this community. You, like all of us, are just trying to contribute to and improve the site. I understand that, and no one is accusing you of purposely trying to disrupt the site. However, like all of us, you're also bound by certain rules. This means we treat each other with respect, even when we don't feel like it. It means we take the extra effort to make sure we're communicating effectively, and that we take a second to try and see things from the other person's perspective. Communication isn't perfect and misunderstandings happen, but you've had issues with this repeatedly in the past, and the discussion here is a result of other users' frustration with the fact that you show no desire to try and correct the problem.

As I said, however, consensus was to leave the warning and your rights in place and to not move forward with a block. You're free to continue contributing like everyone else, as long as you follow the same standards that everyone else is expected to follow. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 21:09, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:Only one admin contacted me, and that was Robin with his 'end of discussion' email, so don't lie about multiple admins contacting me. To keep a warning in place on the basis of a policy that discourages warnings and lays out a procedure to open discussions and seek an explanation before taking that action is wrong. No, it's not a jury, its an execution. Rudeness is not a crime, nor is it against policy, or a personal attack. No-one has ever approached me about being too aggressive or disrespectful to them, so to say otherwise is wrong. Many editors seem to feel that me ripping apart their proposals shouldn't be allowed, but perhaps they should make sure their proposals are properly thought out before making them, and they can still reply to my posts. Just because I've ripped it apart doesn't mean you can't repair it. This is quite relevant because I can point to a few recent discussions where multiple supporters of the warning have had their ideas shot down by me, making them biased in any decision. Maybe its because I have shown a better understanding of policies and wiki know-how that people wish to find a flaw in my character and punish me for it, or perhaps you really are deluded enough to think you can break policy because I should be held to a higher level of accountability than anyone else (because even that breaks the wiki-code where everyone is held to the same level of accountability). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:40, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::It actually ''is'' against policy, which is exactly why you got the warning in the first place. Trust me, if there were some kind of conspiracy against you, we would not waste our time with warnings, discussions, or attempts to reach out to you about your attitude. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish here, but it doesn't seem to be working. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 21:49, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::No it is not, which shows that basically everyone involved doesn't know the policy they are using against me. What I want is someone to have the guts to say exactly what they think, and give a reason that isn't based on bias, misinformation, or outright lies. Why should I accept an injustice to save your peace of mind? No-one 'reached out' to me, attempted to understand what I was saying rather than use someone else's invented meanings of my words, or even attempted to understand the policy the warning was based on. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:55, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::[[UESPWiki:Etiquette]] covers everything applicable here. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 21:59, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

{{od}}{{ec}} In the time it took to write this, I see there's been lots of discussion. I haven't caught up with that yet and am posting this as-written to Silencer's reply to me.

I responded with less formality than is required because I was responding to you both as a friend and an admin, and I was trying to defuse the situation, not ramp it up by rehashing what others had already said. What I said there may have been a bit more friendly, but no less relevant for it. You crossed the line both in your original post and in your replies to it. As it says right in the Wikipedia list you linked to, "Serious accusations require serious evidence. Evidence often takes the form of diffs and links presented on wiki." So far, those have not been provided that I'm aware of. The only link I see in this discussion is Biffa reverting your cleanup tag. Said tag was remarkably unhelpful, as you don't indicate at all what inaccuracies were found. If you couldn't summarize it in the tag, then you could have pointed to a talk page discussion and outlined the problems there.

As to your original post on Biffa's talk page, every sentence contained what could be considered a personal attack. Phrases like "fatally flawed and not up to scratch" and "stop thinking your testing even approaches acceptable levels" are personal attacks, whether you intended them as such or not. "Each and every one of your pages has had to be altered" is demonstrably false. Those all violate the "serious accusations require serious evidence" clause. Several posts after the original, you provided two links as evidence. Were there issue there? Yes, certainly, but don't tell me that you accusing Biffa of "defiling" a page was a friendly, courteous post.

You say you weren't given a chance to explain yourself. This entire topic is the place to explain yourself. You've responded to various posts with a passive-aggressive tone and flippant edit summaries rather than chosing to explain yourself. If you feel you haven't fully explained yourself yet, or that we've all missed something somewhere, now is the time to bring it up.

Contrary to your accusations of following the party line, I think just about everyone who has responded here has looked at the recent history. If you have additional evidence to provide from before then, please do so, as we're not going to all go through hundreds or thousands of edits to figure out which ones you're referring to. The evidence from just before the time of the warning showed some near-edit-warring and some exchanges that could have gone better on ''both'' sides. Both of those take two people, and we're not unaware of that. This post isn't about Biffa, though.

In short, you're a patroller—as a staff member, you're expected to maintain a level head and professional demeanour as much as possible. We all fail at that sometimes—I'm certainly guilty of it, myself—but we need to try. Krusty put the idea forward that the two of you are butting heads because you're both working on Place pages in somewhat different ways. I certainly agree with that. If you have difficulty working with Biffa to develop guidelines and appropriate testing methodologies, then work with someone else. I suggested working with Krusty in my e-mail, since he's the most experienced with projects, but I'm certainly willing to act as a go-between, and I'm sure many others are as well. One way or another, though, this friction needs to end. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:04, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:{{ec}}Yes, it says personal attacks are grounds for a block, not a warning. There are no other options given, so the policy was incorrectly applied. In light of choosing not to block you must defer to wikipedia's policies on dealing with [[wikipedia:wikipedia:personal attacks|personal attacks]]. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:08, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:: To quote Wikipedia's page, ''"Lesser personal attacks often result in a warning".'' Unless you are arguing for a block instead per our own policy page, I don't see the issue here. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:13, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::I'm not really interested in finding a solution with Biffa anymore, just as no-one here was interested in hearing my side before passing judgement. Your comments on the tag are pointless and show bias, as many such tags contain unspecific concerns with the page they are on. Are you trying to quote me with "defiling", because I never used that word, which once again proves how people are happy to twist my words, and even make up words in this case, to support their claims. Not one substantial post here hasn't contained some untruth or twist of words attributed to me, so why should I deign those posts with a reply that might suggest there was any truth in their words. To claim my initial post contains nothing but personal attacks shows that no-one actually looked at the edit summaries. By all means Legoless, lets skip the entire section on dealing with personal attacks and quote the summation at the end of the article, I too can quote meaningless phrases out of context to support my arguments. "Accusing someone of making personal attacks without providing a justification for your accusation is also considered a form of personal attack." My claim was that Biffa's testing wasn't of sufficient standard to make the claim, which means that to provide justification you must believe that Biffa's testing is of sufficient standard to go unchallenged. And yes, I would rather a block than a warning, at least then you can claim to be a decent administrator because you won't be deliberately breaking a policy to enforce punishment on me for being able to answer questions better than yourself. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:30, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

== Block Needed 3==

[[User:Casterwheels]]

Created their user page and talk page for advertising. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 01:54, 19 July 2014 (GMT)

:I'm on it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 01:57, 19 July 2014 (GMT)

== User Nominations ==

It's been two weeks since Quill-Tail was [[UESPWiki:Autopatrolled Users#Quill-Tail|nominated]] to be autopatrolled, and we've got 3 in favor with none against. Could an admin please close the vote? Thanks! [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 12:36, 23 July 2014 (GMT)

:Done! Also, I'm hijacking this topic a bit, so I've changed the title. Hope you don't mind.

:While we're on the topic of nominations, Dominus Arbitrationis has had a [[UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations|patroller nomination]] open for a week and so far, there's only been a single vote. I'd like to solicit more input before closing it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:48, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
::That was my thought as well. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 17:55, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Although if we are going to keep it open for more input, I'd prefer it if someone else actually provided some. It's been two weeks now, and I'm the only vote. If nobody else thinks the nomination is important enough to provide an opinion, the vote should be closed. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 12:49, 30 July 2014 (GMT)

== Block needed (4) ==

[[User:41.220.69.114]] [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 12:43, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
:Zapped! Thanks for the heads-up! ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 12:45, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
::We might want to think about adjusting the spam filter somehow because this is the 2nd time in less than 12 hours that some spambot is talking about 'getting your ex back' with some 'spellcaster' or something. It may be a little tricky considering that magic and stuff is actually in TES, but something to think about. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 13:17, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
:::Looking at this one and the one above, I don't see a lot of similarities. It may just have been a coincidence. I'll keep an eye out, though, and if we start getting more "caster" based contributions, I'll see what I can come up with. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 17:50, 23 July 2014 (GMT)
::::Just to be clear, the Block Needed section above is unrelated to what I'm talking about haha, Jeancey happened to be in the IRC when it happened so he took care of it last night. [[User:WoahBro|•WoahBro]]''[[User talk:WoahBro|►talk]]'' 03:35, 24 July 2014 (GMT)
:::::Ah, yes, I see what you mean now. Eshe actually took care of yet another one last night just before Jeancey did. Since the words "spell caster" weren't an ideal match, I went for "my name is" followed by "spell cast" anywhere in the changes. That pattern appeared in all four. I'm hoping that by combining the two, new users won't run into any problems. "My name is" would be common enough on a user page, but hopefully not followed by "spell cast" until they're autoconfirmed. That particular pattern currently doesn't appear anywhere on the wiki. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 05:45, 24 July 2014 (GMT)

== Fair Use/Dealing on Images Taken From ES Sites ==

These should fall under United States copyright because while UESP is in Canada, the company the images are taken from (And thus the images themselves) are in the United States. When it comes to image copyright (For images we take off their sites), we need to use their fair use/dealing clause instead of the one our servers fall under. Changing this would not affect any screenshots, only images that we take directly from a Zenimax site. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 16:38, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

:The wiki does not come under US jurisdiction and cannot therefore use a US license because it has no validity in Canadian law, it must use a license that is valid in the country it is under the jurisdiction of. To make sense of this you must look where the website would be taken to court over any issues, and that would be Canada, thus the site needs to have established usage under Canadian law in order to protect itself against such eventualitys. While trying to decipher the meanings, definitions, and applicability of copyright law, the only thing that held any relevance was that images should also have a copy of the license that the image holds. As far as I am aware Bethesda and ZeniMax do not specifically license their images, relying on the copyright law alone to preserve their rights. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:24, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

::I was under the impression that because the images and the company that owns the copyright to them is in the US, we would have to use US laws for dealing with it. I got this impression from an email (From Dave) that stated: ''" Look in more detail Esimage would/should be US law as it deals specifically with images taken directly from an ES site (not screenshots as I mentioned in my last email) and those are all Zenimax owned content in the US.''". Of course, I could have been misinterpreting that, in which case, thank you for correcting me and pointing out my error, even indirectly. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 17:47, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

:::The wiki comes under Canadian jurisdiction because that's where the images are being used. To quote [[Wikipedia:Copyright|Wikipedia]], "Copyrights are said to be territorial, which means that they do not extend beyond the territory of a specific state unless that state is a party to an international agreement." We in Canada have signed such an agreement, but it's the rules of that agreement (which are incorporated into Canadian copyright law) that apply to us, not the original copyright law of the US. See: [http://copyright.ubc.ca/guidelines-and-resources/faq/basics/#1.14_How_does_copyright_work_internationally.3F How does copyright work internationally?] – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 18:21, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

== Patroller Nomination ==

It's been about 3 weeks since Dominus Arbitrationis put forth a [[UESPWiki:Patrollers/Nominations#Dominus Arbitrationis|nomination]] for patrollership, and in that time, there have been only 2 votes (both of which were oppose, and with a two-week interval between them). Seeing as how nobody else is weighing in, can we please get an administrator to close the vote? [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 13:05, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
:Done. Not an easy one to call consensus on, but I suppose that goes with the territory. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 14:26, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
::Yeah. I would have liked to get more input, but if nobody else cared enough to vote about it, we weren't doing Dom any favors by dragging it out. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 14:28, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

== De-Patrollership ==

I request removal of my patrolling rights, I do not want to be associated as a staff member of a site with Administrators who willing abuse their position. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:33, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:While this has generally been done without question previously, tensions are high right now, and I'd like to suggest waiting a few days to see if you feel the same. You have been a good patroller, and I'd rather not lose you as one over what should have been a relatively minor incident. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:42, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::This isn't a minor issue, and I'm not changing my mind. You can't deny me my right to voluntarily be demoted. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:46, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::: {{ec}} I didn't see a problem with immediate removal, although I believe a grace period is in order if The Silencer changes his mind in the coming days. @The Silencer, you still have blocker rights, and you'll need to ask Daveh to remove your abuseeditor rights. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 22:50, 5 August 2014 (GMT)
::::This might not be my place to comment, but given his actions in all this, I don't think he deserves a grace period. From the start, we've been saying he should keep his rights, and it's pretty clear by reading his edit summaries and his replies that he's actively trying to be banned. I really don't get his desire to try and claim the immoral victory, but it's his choice. We can't just pretend it didn't happen and give his rights back. That wouldn't be respecting his wishes, and it would be giving him undue preferential treatment. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 22:55, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:::::Agreed. I don't have a problem with immediate removal either, I was just hoping that he'd be willing to give it a few days. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:56, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

::::::It's already done, in any case. Additionally, if The Silencer wishes to appeal his current block, he'll need to follow the steps outlined at [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks]]. I'm not available for the rest of the evening, so I'll have to leave it to someone else to assist with that if needed (and thanks in advance). ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 22:59, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

== Etiquette Policy Clarification - "Grounds for blocking" ==

I've edited the [[Project:Etiquette|Etiquette]] page to clarify that "grounds for blocking" does not mean "will be blocked". This has been a frequent misunderstanding in the past, and I thought it was time it was fixed. Since it's a policy page, and a topic that's ''just'' been brought up, I felt I should mention it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:47, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

User talk:The Silencer

2014-08-05T22:51:21Z

Eshe: /* Blocked */ also

{{ {{SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/DTR}}
{{notice|<center>Talk to me, I shall not be silent.</center>}}

{{Archive Table
|Archive 2012 1|2012/1|March to April
|Archive 2012 2|2012/2|May to December
|Archive 2013 1|2013/1|January to June
|Archive 2013 2|2013/2|July to December
}}

{| class="wikitable"
|{{Userbox|purple|yellow|[[File:Gold Star.png|45x45px]]|I have seven [[User:The Silencer/Awards#Stars|stars]] :)}}
|{{Userbox|black|tan|[[File:Choco_chip_cookie.png|45x45px]]|I have two [[User:The Silencer/Awards#Cookies|items of nourishment]]:)}}
|}{{TOCright}}
{{NewLeft}}

== Spell IDs ==

Regarding Mysticism Spells page - I saw you reverted my revision regarding the wrong ID of the spell. What led me to believe the names listed on the page are actually IDs is that for almost all spells, Name == ID holds true.
Do you think it would be a good idea to add the ID in braces for spells that have an ID != name? (or use an asterisk, you get the idea) [[User:Scrawl|Scrawl]] ([[User talk:Scrawl|talk]]) 00:54, 5 January 2014 (GMT)

:It may be, certainly Skyrim and Oblivion have the ids listed. The problem might be that the vast majority of them (like most ids in Morrowind) are simply the name in lowercase. Maybe its best asked on the talk page of the Spells page. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:06, 5 January 2014 (GMT)

::Actually IDs in morrowind are not case sensitive, so you could say the vast majority of spells have an ID equal to the name.[[User:Scrawl|Scrawl]] ([[User talk:Scrawl|talk]]) 21:36, 5 January 2014 (GMT)

== SMPS ==

Hey there Silencer, hope you are well! :)

I have real life things keeping me busy here for the next week. If you are able, could you throw up a thing or two on the SMPs (Facebook, Twitter - do you have G+ access?) in my absence? It would be much appreciated by our legions of fans! (They love us, they really love us!) If you can, please feel free! And if not, that's okay, too. Thanks in advance and drop me an email if you need anything! -- [[User:Avron the S'wit|Avron the S'wit]] ([[User talk:Avron the S'wit|talk]]) 18:44, 8 January 2014 (GMT)

:Sure, I'll feed their addiction. Just need some ideas. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:13, 8 January 2014 (GMT)

== OBHRP ==

Since [[User:Helenaannevalentine|Helenaannevalentine]] [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User:Helenaannevalentine&oldid=1228159 retired] in August there has been no Project Leader (not active at any rate) for the project, since you're down as Project Advisor do you want to step up of offer it around, i'm not particularly interested but after some [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beezer1029&oldid=1274257 confusion] I thought it best to find someone to run the project. I plan on contributing (images and wiki-work) but i'm not brilliant at writing articles, but i'll volunteer if for some reason you don't want it (or anyone else does, since I was going to offer it up on the project's talk page). --[[User:Kiz|'''Kiz''']][[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 16:31, 29 January 2014 (GMT)

:I suppose I could, place pages are my specialty, and there isn't really anyone else there as a leader. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:23, 4 February 2014 (GMT)

== Character Templates ==

I stand corrected on the edit for [[Shivering:Brithaur (person)]]; but something occasionally weird is going on with the template parsing on this wiki - at least in Chrome. Ref/Base IDs get prefixed with unparsed template code. In the future I'll ignore it - but someone should probably investigate. My apologies for posting this on your talk page - as I realize this is probably better to post on the forums; however - the site refuses to send me the activation email. [[User:Digital Utopia|Digital Utopia]] ([[User talk:Digital Utopia|talk]]) 18:30, 3 February 2014 (GMT)
:To me that sounds like an internal caching problem that [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Purge|purging]] should cure. Hard to be sure with the problem gone, though. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 18:41, 3 February 2014 (GMT)
::Just to note: I had this problem earlier with mobile Chrome, purging the page didn't fix it, but it seems sporadic. Desktop Chrome appears (at first glance) unaffected. Though I see no difference in the edit shown and those IDs appear fine, desktop and mobile. --[[User:Kiz|'''Kiz''']][[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 19:04, 3 February 2014 (GMT)
:::Sporadic seems to be accurate. Clearing the cache will allow the server/wiki software another go at parsing/generating the page - but that doesn't do anything to fix the root cause. It seems doubtful that it's browser dependent, as it's not the browser's job to parse the wiki markup. So if wiki markup is "leaking" into the (HTML) page source, then somewhere server-side, there's an occasional hiccup.[[User:Digital Utopia|Digital Utopia]] ([[User talk:Digital Utopia|talk]]) 01:21, 5 February 2014 (GMT)
::::I found the problem. An update from just before Christmas never got pushed to the mobile servers, so anyone accessing those would see the wiki code. It's been fixed now. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 02:22, 5 February 2014 (GMT)
:::::Currently seeing this issue on desktop [http://i.imgur.com/mr4etq3.png Example]. Did some investigating - and found something curious. Clearing cache didn't do anything on Chrome - so I tried it out on Firefox, and it displayed fine. '''Until''' I logged in that is. When I logged in, I got the same result as I'm currently seeing in Chrome. So, maybe there's something odd going on with my account? Could it be the result of not getting around to finishing up my user page? I managed to get Firefox to return back to the correct display once, after clearing cache/cookies, but since then it's been stuck - as is Chrome, on the improperly displayed page. At any rate - I hope this helps to get to the bottom of it. [[User:Digital Utopia|Digital Utopia]] ([[User talk:Digital Utopia|talk]]) 01:38, 7 February 2014 (GMT)
::::::Yeah, that's the problem I was seeing yesterday on mobile, and I fixed it. I'm noticing that on purging the page, the problem is showing up again, but I've confirmed that my fix is in place, so it may be caching on our end that's causing the issue. I'll talk to Dave about it. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 03:14, 7 February 2014 (GMT)
::::::Purging on content3 fixed that page for me. It looks like <code>#explodeargs</code> sometimes doesn't get parsed in [[Template:IDs2]], and the surrounding <code>#sub</code> chews up the start of it, but why it chews up so much on the RefID/BaseID line in the infobox I have no idea - <code><nowiki>{{#len:{{{sep}}}}}</nowiki></code> shouldn't be as long as that, it's just <code><nowiki> </nowiki></code> after all.
::::::It's quite a challenge to dig through the wiki to find the info on your extensions, though I must admit it's there. What I still don't get is why the <code><nowiki>"Added by"</nowiki></code> table row from [[Template:NPC Summary]] doesn't show up in the NPC infobox - is that what the <code><nowiki><cleantable></nowiki></code> tag does? --[[User:Mendel|◄mendel►]] ([[User talk:Mendel|talk]]) 03:20, 7 February 2014 (GMT)
{{od}}I'm pretty sure the #explodeargs issue is just a case of it not having been rolled out on mobile originally, and now our memcached server probably has cached copies of it surfacing at random. I've asked the site owner to restart memcached, just so that we can rule that in or out as a cause. The template itself has been working fine (at least that I'm aware of) until just recently, so it seems unlikely that there's anything specific to the template, though we shouldn't rule it out completely.

As to your other question, <cleantable> is ''supposed'' to clean out rows where there's no useful data (e.g., a header cell with an empty data cell after it). That said, there are a few quirks/bugs to it, and the creator has left the site, so sometimes we have to work around those. So, if the "Added by" is empty and it's not appearing, that's expected behaviour; if it's being removed on a page where it actually was added by a mod, please let us know which page it's occurring on, so we can investigate. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 04:43, 7 February 2014 (GMT)
:I agree, the template code looks ok. The cleantable tab is also working as intended, it's just surprising at first to see wikicode "disappear". It's a neat hack, though. Thank you for your answer. --[[User:Mendel|◄mendel►]] ([[User talk:Mendel|talk]]) 05:22, 7 February 2014 (GMT)

== Perfect touch ==

You have done this on [[skyrim:pickpocket]] page:
(Undo revision 1277830 by 87.228.67.6 (talk) no, this list is potentially endless so there will be none)
However, it was not a list, but a correction of a previously existing note:
"Perfect Touch does not work on NPCs who wear unobtainable clothing, such as Astrid and Ulfric Stormcloak."
This note is missing the fact that PT perk does not work BOTH for non-playable clothing AND essential NPC. (And Ulfric's clothing can be obtained if he is killed later in the game, actually.)
Examples given by me were not a list, list is indeed very long, and maybe there should be no examples at all, but the fact of essential npc's immunity should be there, I think. Please, give it some consideration. [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 05:11, 13 February 2014 (GMT)

:I've readded the part on being essential and removed the mention of Astrid and Ulfric. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 18:38, 13 February 2014 (GMT)

::OKay =] [[User:Sergio Morozov|Sergio Morozov]] ([[User talk:Sergio Morozov|talk]]) 19:00, 13 February 2014 (GMT)

== Sorry about that ==

I'm pretty new at this, obviously, so not always sure where to put my questions. Thanks. [[User:Kellynne|Kellynne]] ([[User talk:Kellynne|talk]]) 01:50, 14 February 2014 (GMT)

:No problem. You can start a new section on the non-archived talk page if you need to. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:52, 14 February 2014 (GMT)

== Heavy Armor XP ==

The Heavy XP gain is based on the number of heavy items worn, and the unmitigated damage that a blow would cause even if armor and enchantments reduce the amount of actual damage the player receives. I tested this in detail, wearing unaltered an iron armor complete set while being attacked by a giant garnered no more XP than a legendary iron set with heavy armor enchants. The XP is not related to the damage that a player takes to their health, rather to the potential damage that a successful enemy blow would cause if they were wearing no armor at all.

The net result is that a blow that would cause 400 damage receives the same XP regardless of the actual damage that the player receives to their health.

Basic set plus giant strike = XP
Legendary set plus giant strike = Same XP as above

I was really surprised to discover this because the way the wiki currently reads the amount of XP is related to the amount of lost health. This is incorrect. It is worth testing yourself. {{Uns2|16:52, 22 February 2014|MyBreton}}

:What's your point? I only removed the advice on where to best farm damage, as that will never always be true and is pov. The only thing I did was remove the very basic information that having better defense means you can take on stronger enemies; thats a basic gaming standard true across almost every single game where you can equip armor. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:04, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

:: The way the page reads it make it sound like there is an advantage to use the lower quality armor to lose more health. The footnote on the [[Skyrim:Leveling|Leveing]] page makes good sense. "Raw damage" refers to the damage before armor is taken into account. We should use the same language to better clarify the Heavy Armor and Light Armor pages.

::To your point about using stonger items, this is not always the case in Skyrim, for instance using a legendary Dragonbone sword and 4 One handed enchants will garner no more experience than a plane old Dragonbone sword and no skill enchants. To level weapons faster it actually better to use their vanilla version. [[User:MyBreton|MyBreton]] ([[User talk:MyBreton|talk]]) 17:15, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

:::If the page reads elsewhere that there is an advantage the change it, I changed what you added to "The armor you wear does not impact skill gains." in the Gaining Skill XP section, so what you are saying to me is irrelevant. We're talking defense here not attack, if it were different then it would get some sort of note but its not for defense, your argument about attack is invalid in this context, especially as a note is on the One-handed page about that situation. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:21, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

== Hero ==

Thanks. I couldn't work out where I was going wrong :) --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 17:24, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

:Literally one character, but its a new thing to us all, still took me a few minutes to see that was all was wrong. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:26, 24 February 2014 (GMT)
::Yeah, I was basically doing "monkey see, monkey do" based on what you did on [[Online:A Hypothetical Treachery]], but I'll know for future. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 17:30, 24 February 2014 (GMT)
:::Oh wow, we've actually started using labelled section transclusion? We've had it sitting around for so long, pretty much unused. I'll be curious to see how we find it in the long run. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 23:50, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

== Save Values? ==

[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Lore:The_Daggerfall_Chronicles&curid=116244&diff=1284366&oldid=1188003 This] is for references, correct? If so, it should probably go on the [[Books:The Daggerfall Chronicles|book article]] instead. The lore page is for an in-universe item. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 23:53, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

:<s>I'm trying to get the reference to work, when I input the cite book with the book version it displays a non formatted link (<nowiki>[[Book:The Daggerfall Chronicles|]]</nowiki>)</s>. As you can see I tried using a book link in the title parameter so it would autolink to the book page. The values already exist on the Book page. There is a slight difference in this and the versions for Lord of Souls and The Infernal City were they are redirects and take any requested values from the book page itself. And I just figured out why, its Books. Anyway, I'd still like to see it work so it can be reference more easily. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 00:03, 25 February 2014 (GMT)

::But it still linked to the Lore page. Looks like the problem was using "Book" instead of "Books" - I just made the same mistake on dev. I supplied the ns parameter, seems to work. --[[User:Alfwyn|Alfwyn]] ([[User talk:Alfwyn|talk]]) 17:20, 25 February 2014 (GMT)

== Question about achievements link ==

I recently started [[Online:Achievements]] and I noticed that you did some cleanup on it. I've edited infrequently in the past and so I'm unfamiliar with how things are supposed to go on UESP (like the fact that placeholders apparently shouldn't be used), and I was wondering why the [http://www.esohead.com/achievements listing of achievements] that I put in the Incomplete tag was removed. I had hoped that adding the link would be beneficial to other users, creating an easy reference that they could use to improve the page, including those who did not play the game in any of the betas. The only thing that you wrote in the edit summary was "Inappropriate", so I don't understand why it was removed. Is it because it's better suited for the article's talk page? Is there some taboo against linking to other reference sites? I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this so that I know what the expectations for UESP are. -[[User:Thunderforge|Thunderforge]] ([[User talk:Thunderforge|talk]]) 16:06, 3 March 2014 (GMT)

:Its inappropriate in two ways. ESOhead is another form of a wiki (though more just the technical side), and we should not be sending people there for information from our articles, especially not to copy it and place it here. It is up to our users to find the information and corroborate it themselves before adding it to the wiki. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 16:15, 3 March 2014 (GMT)
::Alright, thanks. I definitely meant it in good faith as a way to improve the pages quickly. -[[User:Thunderforge|Thunderforge]] ([[User talk:Thunderforge|talk]]) 16:25, 3 March 2014 (GMT)

== Redirect speedy deletions ==

According to the [[Project:Deletion Policy|Deletion Policy]], I don't think those redirects you've put up for deletion qualify for speedy deletion. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 06:18, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

:Any specific ones? The talk page redirects should all have been deleted at the time, then there are a couple that are leftovers after people didn't know where to start them so made them in an existing namespace, and then a few from misnamed articles that were moved shortly afterwards. Any that were moved were moved a long time ago now and any in-use external links can reasonably be expected to have been updated. Most of the pages that could potentially be controversial were discussed and agreed to be deleted after a while (such as Lore:Tamriel (continent)). Of course we must take care to consider external links being broken, but except for the one example these are all small articles that have very little risk of being linked to anymore. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:08, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

:: [[Battlespire:Screen Shots]] may be externally linked to, it's pretty ancient. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 20:10, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

:::When an entire namespace was moved redirects were left for a year. 6 months should be long enough for one page that doesn't really have much impact on anything or is all that important. What we must not do is get in the thinking that pages should be kept because an uncontrolled external site has linked to it, we have enough redirects as it is. Our search still works for those that have an interest in finding something. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:17, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

::::I agree with your thinking on external links, though I know not everyone feels that way. I remember a discussion of this some time ago, and Wrye, at the very least, was strongly advocating to keep redirects if they were linked to externally.

::::As for the speedies, I was mostly looking at the talk page ones, since many of them are intentional cross-namespace redirects. That means they're not the result of a typo, they're not broken, they're not in mainspace, and they're not image redirects. I suppose they could be considered maintenance deletions (personally, I consider almost any orphaned redirect that's not a spelling variant or similar to be a trivial deletion), but since they were created deliberately, my feeling is that we should probably give them their full week as proposed deletions. I'm not strongly attached to that position, though, just trying to follow the rules. :) – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 22:50, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

:::::Just a comment on RH's first point: Wrye, his sole objection of any substance was that it meant links in his usermanuals for his file downloads where broken. Which shouldn't be the case for any of these, just to let you know. --[[User:Kiz|'''Kiz''']][[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|(email]] - [[User_Talk:Kiz|talk)]] 22:54, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

== Images ==

Ah, thanks for letting me know, I'll keep that in mind for next time. And maybe the orrery picture can be used for its future lore page or quest page perhaps. [[User:NovaNovik|NovaNovik]] ([[User talk:NovaNovik|talk]]) 14:59, 7 April 2014 (GMT)NovaNovik

== Hats, Helmets and Circlets ==

With regard to your revert [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim%3AFortify_Alchemy&diff=1314935&oldid=1314924 here]. Helmets and Circlets occupy one and the same equipment slot, no? The current listing, with Circlets separate from Helmets wrongly implies that more than four pieces with that enchantment can be equipped.

I don't really know what you meant with "Hats are Online". There are Hats as well as Helmets and Circlets in the single-player campaign as well, I merely added Hats for completeness' sake. Nevertheless, they all occupy the same equipment slot, so even if we disregard Hats, my point with regard to Circlets and Helmets occupying the same equipment slot still stands. I'm not entirely sure why you reverted. --[[Special:Contributions/89.0.233.204|89.0.233.204]] 20:15, 7 April 2014 (GMT)

:Helmets and circlets are not the same thing, especially concerning enchanting where items are split into more than just the six pieces of equipment you can generally wear. Hats are the name for a category of equipment in ESO, the same section is Hoods in Skyrim. I assumed you were adding the Hats as a misplaced edit on a Skyrim page rather than an Online page. Now that you bring it up again, I don't recall such a list on any other page of the same type, so it may need removed for consistency. Also, see the bugs on that page to see that helmets and circlets can be worn together. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 20:25, 7 April 2014 (GMT)
::[[Skyrim:Fortify Smithing]] contains a list of enchantable items as well. As far as bugs, I'd argue that bugs are not canonical and exploits involving bugs shouldn't influence the main content of articles. Anyway, I see that you're not interested in any input, so have it your way. Bye. --[[Special:Contributions/89.0.233.204|89.0.233.204]] 00:58, 8 April 2014 (GMT)

:::Thankyou for informing me of my intentions, it makes it much easier than having to form some of my own. You asked for an explanation of my edit and I gave you one, if you wish to debate a change on how things are presented you can ask on the talk page of the article, I am not the sole arbiter of how pages are displayed and your edit may very well be redone if you consider and show my reasoning to be wrong. By running of you show that it is you that is not open to debate, I will be here if you decide to return and contribute a little more constructively. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:04, 8 April 2014 (GMT)

::::If I might just add something - I think 89.0.233.204's intention was to note that the enchantment can be applied to all types of ''"headgear"'' - including helmets, circlets, hats and hoods. While light armor hats are in ESO, I think he may have been referring to the [[Skyrim:Hat#Hat|clothing hats]] in Skyrim, which can indeed be enchanted. Similarly, gauntlets, gloves and bracers can have the enchantment applied to them - but these all would come under the banner of "handgear". While the "Items to Enchant" header isn't on all the enchanting pages, personally I think it is of benefit to readers - provided its standardized across all of them. A catch-all term can be used to avoid confusion. Something like:

::::The <enchant name> effect can be applied to the following items:
:::::*Headgear (Including helmets, circlets, hats and hoods)
:::::*Handgear (Including gauntlets, gloves and bracers)
:::::*Necklaces
:::::*Rings

::::Just some thoughts. --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 09:32, 8 April 2014 (GMT)

== removal of occupants & ores ==

Hi Silencer,

I've noted that occupants is for enemies only, and I'm just updating this page:[[Skyrim:Stendarr's Beacon|Stendarr's Beacon]] and noticed that it had occupants completed so I've removed them as Vigilants aren't enemies. I've also removed the Ore values from the header as they aren't in an interior, but I just wanted to confirm both of these are correct. {{Uns2| 00:22, 10 April 2014|Biffa}}

:Yes, as a wholly exterior zone it has no internal ore veins. A nice simple rule that won't lead to any confusion. I should get back to working on the project page. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 00:27, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
::Yep that I can understand and comply with for both ores and occupants. [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] ([[User talk:Biffa|talk]]) 15:32, 11 April 2014 (GMT)

== Speed: ==

I assume this "fast travel" thing is about the fast travel loading screen time? Is there a formula in the Oblivion data files regarding the fast travel time (i.e. for every X point(s) of Speed gotten, fast travel is reduced by Y second(s)?)

It does seem odd how speed affects loading time. (certainly beats me). '''[[User:Dragon Guard|DG]][[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]''' 19:34, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

:That page has nothing to do with loading times, those are entirely beyond the control of the game. The page is concerned with the speed of travel in the game. Fast traveling consumes time, eg Anvil to the Imperial City takes 8 hours at 50 speed, but only 6 hours at 80 speed (times are completely made up but should show how it works). The same thing applies to horses; fast traveling on a horse takes less in game time than fast traveling while on foot. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:40, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
::So it's just that having a higher speed stat gets there at a quicker time; it won't make the loading screen pass in a femtosecond? '''[[User:Dragon Guard|DG]][[User talk:Dragon Guard|Any Questions?]]''' 19:45, 10 April 2014 (GMT)
:::Correct. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:48, 10 April 2014 (GMT)

== Help? ==

I'm trying to transclude [[Online:Loriasel Tablet, Entry 1]] and Entry 2 from [[Lore:Loriasel Tablet Notes]], but it hates me. For some reason, Entry 3 works? Any ideas where I'm going wrong? --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 16:19, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
:I took a look at it; you accidentally started the section for Entry 2 with 'part1' instead of 'part2'. So you had two part1 starts and zero part2 starts. -- [[User:Hargrimm|Hargrimm]][[User talk:Hargrimm|(T)]] 16:49, 17 April 2014 (GMT)
::Hmmm, it seems I'm an idiot. Thanks! --[[User:Jimeee|Jimeee]] ([[User talk:Jimeee|talk]]) 17:02, 17 April 2014 (GMT)

== Staff of Magnus ==

Regarding your reason for undoing my edit, I think you misunderstood something. I'm on Xbox 360 and didn't abuse anything to repeat a quest. [[Skyrim:Aftershock|Aftershock]] is a repeating Radiant quest that can be started multiple times on any platform. I also tried simply waiting for the area to respawn (as long as 60 days) and there was no staff in the ash pile. I've thoroughly tested many combinations of waiting, starting and completing Aftershock, and starting it seems to be the trigger.
I'll leave it up to you whether to add my info back or not. [[Special:Contributions/70.209.64.190|70.209.64.190]] 12:56, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

:I see now. I misread it as the quest that takes you to Labyrinthine, which would make some sense at least. Why Aftershock does it is odd, but obviously at that stage the location can be accessed again. I will redo your edit. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 13:41, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

== Abouts ==

We should hold off on adding abouts to pages, because NPCs in ESO have the tendency to drop or add parts of the name when appearing in different areas. An NPC in one area might have a last name, and then appear as a projection or a vision during another quest without the last name, despite being the same NPC. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 04:19, 12 May 2014 (GMT)

:Alright. They'll be turned into redirects once known right? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 10:53, 12 May 2014 (GMT)
::Of course. Just need a good way to figure out which name is either first or used most often. The main ones I'm thinking of right now are a few Khajiit's in reaper's march who were referred with -ma attached and unattached to their name. [[User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] ([[User talk:Jeancey|talk]]) 11:10, 12 May 2014 (GMT)

:::Shouldn't we go with the full name as their main page, so long as its displayed ingame at some point of course. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 11:14, 12 May 2014 (GMT)

== Letter from Tillrani ==

Ack, sorry about that and thanks for moving it. -- [[User:Valadez|Valadez]]  [[User talk:Valadez| Talk ]][[Special:Contributions/Valadez| Contributions ]] 21:48, 16 May 2014 (GMT)

== Coldharbour ==

Good day, Silencer

I see that you undid my edit on {{Lore Link|Coldharbour}} based upon the rationale that it is given that Daedra inhabit Coldharbour as a plane of Oblivion, but my concern is that new users, those who want just quick information, or those not knowledgeable about the world of the Elder Scrolls would be unaware of this. The article does not mention anything about the Dremora that service {{Lore Link|Molag Bal}} or that {{Lore Link|Auroran}}s are (or used to be, depending on how the events of ESO play out) trapped inside his realm. I refferenced a book that tells us about this and could reference more (I planned to edit the page today) to include the name of one Dremora Clan that services Molag Bal (being the Deathbringers). I also believe that the last sentence of the first paragraph is misleading if you say that Daedra inhabiting the planes of Oblivion being fact as it both gives an exception to Coldharbour and implies that only Soul Shrivens inhabit the realm. "As opposed to other realms of Oblivion, Coldharbour is largely lifeless, instead filled with souls of the dead, called Soul Shriven, where they are tormented for eternity." I understand that nothing below absolute certainty should be used, but books found in ESO say otherwise about this Deathbringer Clan, and another book (cannot remember where or how, but talked about Draedroth [the lizard-like Daedra] also inhabiting the realm) talks about Draedroth being formed within Coldharbour as part of their re-forming process that Daedra go through when they die.

Thank you for reading, please reply! [[User:Rencini|Rencini]] ([[User talk:Rencini|talk]]) 12:46, 22 May 2014 (GMT)

: A lot of Daedra inhabit Coldharbour. There's no point being so specific about clans and such until we have all the information. I would suggest changing the wording of the Soul Shriven sentence to imply they dwell there along with the Daedra, but otherwise holding off on the details for now. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 13:52, 22 May 2014 (GMT)

::Incomplete info is not good on any lore article, the only thing worse is incorrect info. This is part of the reasoning behind locking page creation in lore when new games come out, people rush to add each bit of information they find as they find it, resulting in an incoherent page with conflicting statements. The restrictions are less harsh in the gamespaces (Online in this case), so adding info to the ON:Coldharbour page is fine as it will get more attention and will be quickly changed by someone who has found alternate sources. On the topic of Daedra, types of Daedra are only notable if they are not associated with the realm's Prince, but Daedra clans are a different thing (as far as see anyway). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 18:06, 22 May 2014 (GMT)

== "A" vs. "An" ==

If we're going by American English, "An historic" is incorrect. [https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/591/01/] [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 23:35, 30 May 2014 (GMT)

:An historic is not incorrect in American English. That link shows nothing to support an alternative argument. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 23:38, 30 May 2014 (GMT)
::[http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/words/a-historic-event-or-an-historic-event Have another then.] There's no "argument" because there's nothing to argue. This is a basic grammatical rule, you use "an" when the first phonetic sound is a vowel and "a" when the first sound is a consonant. [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 23:41, 30 May 2014 (GMT)
:::That link says it is more logical and does not say that it is wrong to use 'an'. In fact it supports its usage as Bethesda has a history of using old forms of words and the grammar associated with them. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 23:44, 30 May 2014 (GMT)
::::Um, just because something is older/less common, it doesn't mean it's incorrect. According to the Oxford source people used to pronounce "historical" as "istorical" in the 18th-19th century, hence the "an", and in this context Bethesda was emulating a medieval-esque writing style; it should be expected that older rules and conventions are used. [[User:Quill-Tail|—<({Quill-Tail]][[User talk:Quill-Tail|>>]] 23:53, 30 May 2014 (GMT)
:::::Hence the addition of the sic template to let people know not to change it from the older English dialect to the more commonly-used modern form. [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 23:57, 30 May 2014 (GMT)
::::::I've already fought a battle in having a sic tag incorrectly used for a correct word, I'm not interested in fighting that battle again so you can read over it and see the reasons why that reasoning is flawed; [[Lore_talk:The_Bear_of_Markarth]]. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 00:01, 31 May 2014 (GMT)
{{od}}I wasn't aware that there was already a discussion on the matter. If the community agrees that outdated linguistic patterns don't require sic tags, I'm okay with that, but I wish you had explained that to me in the first place. I kind of thought you were just being obstinate, I didn't realize you actually had something to support your position with. Also, I take issue with your assertion that my reasoning is "flawed". Given that Jeancey made the same assumption I did independently, I don't think it's unreasonable to interpret that template in multiple ways. If the community supports a decision, that's one thing, but could you maybe tell me that in a way that doesn't make it sound like you're talking down to me? [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 00:29, 31 May 2014 (GMT)
:The wikipedia policy on sics smacks of interfering bureaucrats poking their noses where they shouldn't. If a UESP policy on sics was written I would argue for more sensible and intelligent rules. Anyone who uses the wikipedia definition should seriously consider revising their knowledge on the English language. That's how I feel about that 'policy' and anyone who uses it. I apologise for any offence given and my short shrift in referring you to the other conversation rather than explaining properly that the flaws lie in the 'policy', and I am obstinate. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 12:41, 31 May 2014 (GMT)
::Thank you. [[User:ThuumofReason|ThuumofReason]] ([[User talk:ThuumofReason|talk]]) 13:01, 31 May 2014 (GMT)
:::Another option here is to create a "do not correct" template of some form (basically, {{tl|Sic}} with different text) or just add HTML comments to discourage editors from "correcting" what they believe is a mistake. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 21:00, 31 May 2014 (GMT)
::::That is never a path I would go down. Highlighting correctly used words suggests that we don't trust the intelligence of our readers. Hidden HTML tags should only be used as a very last resort when dealing with words that keep getting changed, because then we can point to that and show why it is needed. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:19, 31 May 2014 (GMT)

== Pets as Creatures ==

The [[Online:Pets]] page is supposed to document the items, not the creatures. The creature pages should be separate (e.g. [[Online:Mudcrab]]). —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 21:00, 2 June 2014 (GMT)

:It's an overview page of some creatures, same as passive creatures or undead. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:02, 2 June 2014 (GMT)

:: Not really. The creatures themselves don't have labels (apart from the Dwarven spider, but the creature name is different than the item). The "pets" are items that you activate to summon the creatures, which is where the section headers come from, i.e. there's an item called 'Pet Imgakin', but no creature with that name. Additionally, we have the page listed [[Online:Items|here]]. In the future we may want to replace the sections with a table. Are you under the impression that it's a creature page because of the images? —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 21:14, 2 June 2014 (GMT)

:::Yes, the pictures, style, and prose of the sections is written as about the creatures, not an 'item' that summons a creature. You also wrote that Imgakin are visually different to monkeys but we don't have a page on Imgakin to that effect. It would help a lot if an opening paragraph detailing how to use said items to get a pet (e.g. keep them in your inventory, passive/active, how many at once). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:23, 2 June 2014 (GMT)

:::: I could add some of those details now. A page for imgakin would be good too. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 21:48, 2 June 2014 (GMT)

== Orgnum ==

Thank you, could you please also delete Orgnum Thras redirect page? [[Special:Contributions/93.178.98.207|93.178.98.207]] 11:39, 11 June 2014 (GMT) (Phoenix_Neko)

:Talk page redirects are generally useless so there is no issue over that. On the Orgnum page a short discussion took place that decided to keep the redirect so I see no reason to delete the page. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 11:41, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

::Well, the redirect is useless anymore. Yet, I'm surprised by your undo of my change at RPEH's talk page. As far as I can see, you did the upgrade of some link at the same talk page, so I thought it is okay. [[Special:Contributions/93.178.98.207|93.178.98.207]] 11:43, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

:::Userpages should be left alone as much as possible, and changing the link on that particular page could lead to confusion. Unused redirects are not always useless, but you can propose it yourself if you can show that there is no use for it at all (use the {{tl|Prod}} template because it has already been disputed). Of course if it does get deleted then the userpage link would have to be changed but that's another story. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 11:50, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

::::Thank you for clarification. Well, if I use {{tl|Prod}} I think that'd be helluva talking, so I'd rather pass. I suck at negotiations, for my English is far from excellent. [[Special:Contributions/93.178.98.207|93.178.98.207]] 12:16, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

:::::I'm normally a big fan of getting rid of useless redirects, but looking at the discussion that's now on [[Lore talk:Orgnum]], I'd say that that one should stay in. The "Thras" presumably came from somewhere, so unless it was purely a one-time user error when the page was created, someone might be looking for "Orgnum Thras", and even if they see [[Lore:Orgnum]] pop up in the search, it may not be clear that the two are indeed the same. – [[User:RobinHood70|Robin Hood]]  [[User_talk:RobinHood70|(talk)]] 13:59, 11 June 2014 (GMT)

== Real world NPC names ==
I thought it was common to write down information about real world connections of NPC names in the "Notes" section as a curiosity. I recall seeing it earlier in other articles but I can't find an example now. Is this a new policy? Personally I thinks it is fun to see if a (assumed) fantasy name actually is a real name in another language/country. /Fredrik, Sweden. 20:36, 24 June 2014 (GMT)
:There have been discussions over name terminology, and I think we've come down to only allowing this in case it's relevant to the character. The fact that a name is common in Sweden is hardly noteworthy, given that many of the names in Skyrim are Scandinavian names. An example of where it would be noteworthy is Vilkas and Farkas, which both mean wolf, which fits their lycanthropy ~ [[User:Dwarfmp|Dwarfmp]] ([[User talk:Dwarfmp|talk]]) 20:48, 24 June 2014 (GMT)
::Yeah, of course. It makes sense. Actually the main reason for adding it from the beginning was that I think I've read somewhere that Christer has an additional meaning, namely that it can also mean "big and strong". This definitely does not fits Christer^^. Unfortunately I couldn't find a source other than Wikipedia. Thanks for your time and for contributing to UESP! /Fredrik {{Uns2|21:04, 24 June 2014|90.230.93.89 }}
:::Etymologies that are what the character is are acceptable (Farkas means wolf, and he's a werewolf). Etymologies that don't fit are not documented due to subjectivity in determining whether it was deliberate or not. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 21:15, 24 June 2014 (GMT)

== Light Blue Regalia and Amiable Fanriene ==

Hello. Regarding the changes I made to the [[Shivering:Orinthal|Orinthal]], [[Shivering:Dancer|Dancer]] and [[Shivering:Amiable Fanriene|Amiable Fanriene]] pages, I can understand you reverting my edits. I only made the changes to be consistent with the [[Shivering:Sontaire|Sontaire]] and [[Shivering:Tilse Areleth|Tilse Areleth]] pages, where the clothing has been capitalized. The small section I removed on the Amiable Fanriene page didn't make grammatical sense to me: "He wears typical Mania outfit: a light blue regalia." and so I felt that it could be simplified. In addition (as far as I know) only two NPCs wear this outfit (Amiable Fanriene and the Dancer) so calling it a "typical Mania outfit" doesn't seem quite right. Perhaps: "He wears a vibrant Light Blue Regalia." would be more fitting? I look forward to hearing your thoughts. [[User:AquaticPossum|AquaticPossum]] ([[User talk:AquaticPossum|talk]]) 19:43, 27 June 2014 (GMT)

:One of the worst types of thinking is 'one page does it so lets spread it everywhere else', it was so inherently wrong to cap the names of clothing that I couldn't even think of a logical reason to type in to the summary. While the exact type of clothing may be limited in scope, it fits the general Mania style of clothing so there's no reason not to mention it, though I accept the grammar could be improved. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 19:54, 27 June 2014 (GMT)

:: Items used to be capitalized as they appear in-game, but that was changed after Skyrim came out. Obviously some of the Shivering Isles articles weren't updated to reflect this. I agree that the wording on Amiable Fanriene's page was a bit clunky; hopefully [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Shivering%3AAmiable_Fanriene&diff=1363678&oldid=1363453 this change] is satisfactory. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 20:10, 27 June 2014 (GMT)

::: My apologies for not creating this section at the bottom of the page. Good to know about the practice of not displaying certain items exactly as they appear in-game, I'll bear that in mind for the future. The new wording sounds good to me. [[User:AquaticPossum|AquaticPossum]] ([[User talk:AquaticPossum|talk]]) 22:09, 27 June 2014 (GMT)

::::Just because they aren't capitalised doesn't mean it isn't correct. The items on their own page (i.e. the clothing page) shows the items name as seen in-game, but when using it in a sentence it is proper to not capitalize it, just as you wouldn't cap horses or bandits. The items are not displayed in a sentence in-game when you see them, and when items are they are capped properly (i.e. the way it is done here). [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:28, 27 June 2014 (GMT)

== Regarding Marker Icon vs Service Icon ==

I was just wondering your reasoning behind using a place link, description and marker icon for stalls in [[ON:Royal Bazaar|Royal Bazaar]], and redirecting to a merchant. What I have been doing, eg for [[Online:Port Hunding's Open Marketplace|Port Hunding's Open Marketplace]], is just naming the stall and its merchants and using the service icon (stalls' individual pages redirect to the Marketplace page). I'm not saying either way is necessarily better than the other, but at certain stalls there is more than one merchant, meaning redirecting to a merchant may not work, and some stalls do not have names. Also, by using Marker Icon, the icon appears fuzzy and on the left of the stall name, whereas the icon belongs to the merchant (and not their stall). Service Icon is much crisper and also links to the correct vendor page. (See also Store Icons vs Vendor Icons at [[User:Enodoc#Store Types]], as I think at some point we were discussing possibly splitting some Stores into different types.) --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 14:37, 1 July 2014 (GMT)

:The redirects are being created so I thought it better to use them. Service Icon didn't work inside the description template so I used the marker one instead. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 14:53, 1 July 2014 (GMT)

::Oh that's odd. Maybe it doesn't know how to #save a template? I'll have a play around and see what happens. --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 20:46, 1 July 2014 (GMT)

:::It seems that during the #save/#load process it does not fully parse the link. Perhaps the best thing to do then, to stop fuzzy icons appearing in the wrong places, would be to do <nowiki>{{Place Link}} followed by {{Service Icon}}</nowiki>.
:::In the example of Aralas' Arcane Implements, it would be <nowiki>{{Place Link|Aralas' Arcane Implements}} {{Service Icon|Mystic}}</nowiki> to give
:::*{{Place Link|Aralas' Arcane Implements|mapname=none|ns_base=Online|marker_icon=}} {{Service Icon|Mystic|ns_base=Online}}
:::I think this would be a tidier way to do it, particularly in the case of more than one merchant per store (the icons can all be lined up at the end). --[[User:Enodoc|Enodoc]] ([[User talk:Enodoc|talk]]) 13:05, 7 July 2014 (GMT)

== The image i posted ==

I deleted it, i found it on google images and i didn't know there was any documentation required, so do i still need documentation if i deleted the image. {{Uns2|22:31, 10 July 2014|Wubonater}}

:Not if you request an admin to delete the image itself, removing it from the page isn't enough if you do not want to use it. Post the {{tl|Speed}} template on the file page to request deletion. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:35, 10 July 2014 (GMT)

== i have a question ==

how do i Document an image, i have images of arena that the arena page can use, and if i took the picture do i have to document it {{uns|Wubonater|09:48, 11 July 2014 (GMT)}}

:Proper documentation involves applying an appropriate license and attribution to the creator. In this case if you have taken the images ingame yourself, you merely need to select the license uespimage (under the "UESP Screenshots only" header) when uploading the image. Your username is automatically applied to the file in accredit you with that image. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 00:58, 12 July 2014 (GMT)

== Stormhold ==

Just wanted to let you know that I've reverted your use of the {{tl|bug}} template in the [[Stormhold]] namespace, which I've [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Stormhold%3AGetting_Started&diff=1199117&oldid=1105354 done before] on account of it screwing with the layout and being of no practical use in the namespace. Since the game's NPCs have a single bug between them, there's no reason to apply irrelevant standards like superfluous bulletpoints and a plural heading over style. Thanks. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 02:58, 14 July 2014 (GMT)

:Well thats just wrong, there is no reason why Stormhold should be exempt from the same style layout such as plural headers (which are a wiki standard not just UESP), and the bug format, which also serves to show the bug is confirmed or needs confirmation. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 03:01, 14 July 2014 (GMT)

:: As I said, superfluous bulletpoints and incorrect pluralisation of a single bug. No one is going to confirm the bug because no one plays Stormhold, so unless you want to test it out yourself I imagine you'd be dependent on either me or Krusty for confirmation - and since I added the bug, that's a no-no. The "bug format" is for games that require a list layout, and the confirmation requirement was brought about by the huge variance of play in the sandbox games, which is kind of ridiculous to impose on a simple Java mobile game. Those sections are not lists, they are documentation of a single bug written in prose. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 03:08, 14 July 2014 (GMT)

:::Again your concerns are invalid, the use of the nobullet parameter would restore the layout you wish to see, and the header format isn't questionable, all headers should be plural, be they for a single sentence or a single image, it really isn't up for debate unless you wish to rewrite the entire style layout. You say/suggest that Krusty has played the games, so a quick check with him to confirm the bug is all that is needed, and then even that issue is resolved. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 03:24, 14 July 2014 (GMT)

== Warning ==

{{Warning|Your personal attacks against [[User:Biffa|Biffa]] are out of line. This kind of behavior has to stop, for the good of the Wiki. As a long standing contributor, you should have known this. ~ [[User:Dominus Arbitrationis|Ad intellige]] [[User_talk:Dominus Arbitrationis|(talk)]] 00:53, 17 July 2014 (GMT)}}

:Glad to see that another person has decided to read into a situation they know nothing about, thanks. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 00:58, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
::You're really not making yourself look any better here. Play the victim all you like, but the fact remains that YOU were the one who started that confrontation, YOU were the one who broke the etiquette policy (in fact, you openly defied it), and YOU are consequently the one in the wrong here. Any outside observer (which both Dominus and I were) could clearly see that your comments were inappropriate. This warning is entirely justified, so just take it as a learning experience and we can all move on without this kind of thing happening again. [[User:ThuumofReason|Zul se onikaan]][[User talk:ThuumofReason|Laan tinvaak]] 01:04, 17 July 2014 (GMT)
:::This is completely unwarranted. How can you claim neutrality yet bring up a separate topic within that comment of your's, all while avoiding the issue at hand. I barely touched breaking the etiquette policy, while Biffa clearly broke it saying I 'gone out of your way to make thing unpleasant for me on this site.' Warning me 'for the good of the wiki' when I was trying to engage an editor and improve their clearly flawed methods is so ironic it hurts. Get back to me when you can contribute to the issue of Biffa's testing methods. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 01:49, 17 July 2014 (GMT)

== Icons ==

Per [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Isolated_House&curid=6114&diff=1376448&oldid=1376441 this], can you point me towards where this was standardised? As far as I can tell it hasn't been fully implemented (see [[Skyrim:Dawnguard Places]] for example), and I don't see the point in mislabelling places for the sake of having an icon. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 17:31, 4 August 2014 (GMT)

:The template was created for the express purposes of pages like those ones. It is used for places that have a type but lack an icon, where others of the same type have an icon. A handful of the places on the Dawnguard page are worldspaces, for which there is no icon. As a repetitively new addition (January '13), being introduced between games it isn't surprising that many pages don't have it yet. The template does not mislabel anything, when used in the place link template it indicates what type of building it is, not that it has an icon on the map. This template was made after the Place Link template was changed from deriving the icon directly from the saved value for the type, and instead taking the marker id value (which these pages lack), so in essence there was no outward change, it is simply a continuation of how things were done. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 17:48, 4 August 2014 (GMT)

== Joke ==

That block reason is a joke, at what point was I intimidating, or are you just afraid to answer my questions? [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:48, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

:A fucking week, you are mad. [[User:The Silencer|Silence is Golden]][[User talk:The Silencer|Break the Silence]] 22:49, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

== Blocked ==

{{Blocked|1=This IP address has been '''[[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy|blocked]]''' from editing UESPWiki for one week for persistent abuse of other editors. Your attitude is nothing short of toxic at this point, and your contributions have become disruptive. If you wish to [[UESPWiki:Blocking Policy#Appealing Blocks|appeal the block]], you may make your request on your talk page, which you can still edit even while being blocked. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 22:50, 5 August 2014 (GMT)}}
As a side note, if you continue to abuse other editors using the privilege of editing your talk page, that right can be removed as well. Please take this time to reconsider your attitude toward other members of this community. ⇠[[User:Eshe|eshe]]'''[[User talk:Eshe|talk]]''' 22:51, 5 August 2014 (GMT)