UESPWiki - User Contributions [en]

Skyrim talk:Illusion

2011-12-12T13:09:26Z

95.206.3.238: /* Bugs */

==Spell Effects==

Most of the effects listed in the Spell Effects section do not exist in Skyrim. In particular, there are no Illusion spells for Charm, Command Creature, Command Humanoid, Frenzy, or Night-Eye. {{unsigned|99.188.122.91|17 November 2011}}
:As Skyrim has just been released and there is a mass of editing going on at the moment, it'll be some time before all the details have been ironed out on the wiki. Feel free to join up as an editor and help add/remove the details you know about. Check out the 'How to Contribute' section on the left under the search bar. —[[User:Daniellibus|Daniellibus]] [[Special:Emailuser/Daniellibus|E]] • [[User talk:Daniellibus|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Daniellibus|C]] 13:32, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

::Also some, if not all, of those effects are in game. Night-eye seems to be exclusive to Khajiit, Charm and Frenzy seem to be something like Calm and Fury etc etc.--[[User:Dro'Bakha|Dro'Bakha]] 13:36, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::: Fury spells provide Frenzy effects. Some of the other things are in, but it's true that according to current lists they are not provided by Illusion spells specifically. Night-Eye, for example, I have only seen in Power guise. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 14:19, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

:::: On that note, has anyone spotted "Silence" as a castable spell? [[User:Callnot|Callnot]] 05:20, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
::::: Have not seen silence, but you can use fury or calm like silence to make a mage just go blade only. --[[User:Cdevine|Cdevine]] 04:49, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I have removed the non-existent spells and put those with the same general class of effect but at higher levels on the same line together. [[User:Kalevala|Kalevala]] 04:17, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

=="Higher Level Opponents"==

Will it be possible to quantify what is meant by "higher level opponents?" These perks could either by incredibly powerful or absolutely useless late-game depending on exactly how many levels they cover and how many enemies scale with player level (e.g. if 80% of new caves scale to player level, then beyond 50 half of the illusion perks might have no effect in new caves). [[User:Ruchn|Ruchn]] 17:38, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

:I second this, also for animage perk and "higher level animals" I can't frenzy anything at level 10 it seems and I feel that I should be able to frenzy at my level

::By "higher level opponents" I believe it means higher than the quoted spell level. For example: If the spell says Level 6, you might be able to do Level 7 or Level 8 opponents. Higher level is not (or atleast I don't think) make illusion spells effect on people higher level than you, i think it's a way of putting 'makes the spell more powerful', and their the in-game descriptions anyway. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 09:54, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

:If you pick up the Illusion Dual-Casting perk and dual-cast Fury, it will work on higher level things as well. Illusion potions will also help. I will try to play around with the console and see if I can quantify the effects of these spells (assuming I can figure out what level a given NPC is). Anecdotally, dual-casted Fury with no level-increasing perks is useful well into the 20s, as there are always some lower level bandits or whatever mixed in to mess around with. [[User:Aetryn|Aetryn]] 17:57, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

:: The "Rage" perk definitely adds +12 levels to Fury. It shows up on the spell description as level 18 instead of level 6. The Kindred Mage perk adds either 10 or 11 levels to the effectiveness of Fury (I was unable to find a level 17 NPC to test on). The perks stack, and I was able to land Fury on a level 28 NPC with both (but not on a level 30, and again, unable to find a level 29 NPC). Animage appears to add 8 or 9 levels, as (without Rage), I could land it on a level 14 Giant Frostbite Spider (checked via the console, there is also a level 17 variant), but not on a level 16 cave bear. I could not locate a level 15 animal. With both perks, you can handle anything I could find flagged as a creature (highest is Ice Troll at 22?). Also note that while you can target Draugr if you have Master of the Mind, they are neither animal/creatures nor people, so neither Animage nor Kindred Mage applies. Rage still works though. Dragons are never targetable by Illusion magic no matter what level they are or perks you have.

::More Illusion Test Data (from console, spawning various level NPCs and testing spells). This is only for NPCs (as if creatures truly cap out at 22 there's no need for extensive testing). Player level has no effect.
::Max Casting Level Test Results (DC = Dual Casted)
::{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Spell
!Base Level
!Kindred Mage
!Effect-specific perk
!Both
!DC, no perks
!DC, Kindred Mage
!DC, Effect-specific
!DC, Both
|-
|Fury
|6
|16-17
|18
|28-29
|13
|34
|38-39
|51+
|-
|Calm
|9
|19
|16-17
|27
|19
|36-37
|at least 40 (top end up unknown)
|51+
|-
|Fear
|9
|
|
|28-29
|19
|36-37
|40-43
|51+
|-
|Frenzy
|14
|24
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
|Pacify
|20
|
|
|
|
|
|
|51+
|}

::Some observations: for single casting, it looks pretty simple - +10 levels for Kindred Mage, +8 for Hypnotic Gaze, +10 for Aspect of Terror, and +12 for Rage. The latter three are reflected in the spell description. Dual cast appears to slightly more than double the level (which is consistent with what it does for Oakskin - it takes a 60 second spell and turns it into 130ish seconds). However, the doubling+ happens AFTER the base level is changed by the perks, even for Kindred Mage where it isn't visible in the tooltip. This means that a low level Fury can affect any NPC in the game when dual-cast when dual cast with both Kindred Mage and Rage.

::Do we want to put a table like this on the main page once the remaining data points get filled in? [[User:Aetryn|Aetryn]] 23:36, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

::: Further note - some enemies seem to have partial resistance to Illusion. A DualCasted Calm spell with all perks on a level 38 Falmer Shadowmaster was seen as "too powerful", while the same spell worked on a level 50 guard. A Dualcasted pacify spell with all perks did work on the level 38 Falmer [[User:Aetryn|Aetryn]] 00:22, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

:So, all in all, does this mean that Illusion can become completely useless at higher levels? That's... Really dumb. I don't know how enemy levels increase, but if it's anything like Oblivion, then a mage who reaches high levels will suddenly have no use for Illusion spells if that's the case. Someone please tell me I'm wrong. Even if it's possible, it seems like it rules out being able to have it as a secondary sort of thing. It sounds like you couldn't really get much out of say, an assassin with a dagger in one hand and some illusion spell in the other. You'd have to focus on it greatly to stop it from become obsolete the moment your enemies out-level it, right?--[[User:Lovless510|Lovless510]] 14:33, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

:: If you are not willing to invest perks in Illusion then it will become much less useful at higher levels (due to how the levelled lists work, you will still encounter some eligible targets, but you will probably be capable of defeating them without the aid of Illusion anyway). If you are willing to invest perks in Illusion, then it is still powerful and useful at higher levels (and can, in fact, affect pretty much anything in the game). A reasonable build is Novice-Expert Illusion, Dual Casting, Hypnotic Gaze, Aspect of Terror, Rage, and Master of the Mind (9 perks) if you interested in all 3 "major" effects. This will allow you to affect anything not immune to illusion in the game with a dual-casted Frenzy, Pacify, or Rout. You can pare this down a few perks if you are only intending to use it against NPCs and/or don't care about all three types of effect. In any case, if you're willing to Dual-cast, you should try not to waste picks on Animage and Kindred Mage, as they only help you for a bit in the midgame (before you get Rage, and Expert level spells, essentially).

:: A single-handed build is harder to make viable. You cap out at 14+12+10 = 36 for Frenzy, 20+8+10 = 38 for Pacify, and 20+10+10 = 40 for Rout. This is enough to affect all bandits (that stop at 30 or so) and creatures of the wild, but high-level Forsworn, mages, and vampires will tend to be in the 40-54 range. Since those are the most interesting targets for Illusion, it tends to be less useful. You probably need to be a Vampire yourself (for the +25% cumulative bonus to Illusion) and carry a stock of Illusion potions to get the very hardest targets. You also have to pick up Animage (which is pretty useless, since no animals are high enough for the bonus to matter much), and Kindred Mage, so your net perk count ends up being 9 (or 10 with Master of the Mind to include vampires and undead).

::Partial perk builds in Illusion are fairly useless - only good if you are planning to develop better long-term options and want Illusion solely for early defense/crowd control. In any case, don't sell short the effects. Frenzy is enormously powerful - even if the enemy you frenzied continues to attack you, odds are one of the other enemies will start attacking the frenzied enemy since they see it as a threat. Combined with stealth, you can whittle rooms down to a single enemy before they even see you. [[User:Aetryn|Aetryn]] 19:24, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Bugs ==

Aspect of Terror perk doubles the damage destruction fire magic deals, tested it out with console in a quest to figure out how to scale destruction damage. I would assume the other 2 perks would do the same for shock and frost spells, although I did not test those out.

Highest damage for Flames spell I achieved with console editing perks and stats was 27 per second for 4 mana (max destro tree, Aspect of Terror, 100 destruction). Things to note also is that character level does nothing for destruction as the stats didn't change at all when I made the character level 50 from lvl 1. Magicka amount also does not matter.

:Hardly double. Most reports are either around 25 % or a flat number. Note that a flat number seems consistent with varying reported percentages. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 13:53, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

@ above: It depends on the spell. Flames with all perks (Sans aspect of terror) does 12 Dmg/S. With Aspect of Terror, it's dealing 27 Dmg/S. Tested on 360.
: Do you mean that the numeric increase depends on the spell, or that the percentage increase depends on the spell? If numeric, that hints at a percentage. If percentage, that hints at a flat number. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.3.238|95.206.3.238]] 13:09, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

== Vampirism +25% bonus to Illusion spells ==

A nice addition to this page would be a clarification of the "25% more powerful" bonus to Illusion spells which is granted to Vampires.

Is this 25% bonus applied to the max level your illusion spells will work against? If so, is this bonus applied to the base level, ie for Fury this value is 6, so being a Vampire changes that value of base level to 7? Or is the bonus applied to the value after perks have been applied to the base value?

Or does it change the duration of spells? Or the range? Or the chance of being resisted (if such a thing exists in Skyrim)? Or some combination of these things?

[[Special:Contributions/184.58.10.245|184.58.10.245]] 06:00, 25 November 2011 (UTC)'''Kelvik'''

:Testing confirms the bonus is applied to max level. My tooltip in Illusion shows the base values for Fear, Calm, and Fury as 11, 11, and 7 respectively, as a Vampire with no perks in Illusion. Durations do not appear to be changed, as Muffle's duration is still listed at 180. I then purchased the +Calm perk and the max level for Calm now is shown as 21. That gave me +10, as opposed to the +8 listed by a previous tester who I assume was not a Vampire. So it seems the +25% bonus is applied to your total max level value, after perks are calculated in.
[[User:Kelvik|Kelvik]] 13:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

::Potions, which have a similar "50% more powerful for 30 seconds" do NOT apply their bonus to perks (you get 50% of the base level of the spell). Example: Fury's base level is 6. With a Draught of Illusion (50% for 30 seconds), it's level is 9. With rage (+12), it's level is only 21, not the 27 you would have expected. This makes potions of illusion fairly situational (probably only for the Master spells that can't be dual-casted). I haven't tested how potions interact with dual-casting, as that's harder to set up. [[Special:Contributions/24.20.180.1|24.20.180.1]] 17:52, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Notes that are just discussing the skill go here ==

Moving most of notes section here because it is opinion on use of the skill

Courage and Muffle can be trained outside of combat to quickly level up illusion. This can be used in combination with the wait function to instantly recharge mana. Getting to 100 skill like this takes 5-10 minutes. To avoid waiting, obtain the massive mana regen buff by completing the Out of Balance quest given by Drevis Neloren in the College at Winterhold. With this buff active you can cast Muffle in both hands and by the time the cast animation is finished your mana has fully recharged, easily maxing Illusion in the two hour window of the buff. Clairvoyance, on the other hand, is not good for quick leveling, as it raises your Illusion skill very slowly.

Using Calm in one hand and a destruction spell in the other hand is an effective way to clear strong enemies early like bears. Charge both up, then release the destruction spell slightly before Calm. Alternatively you can use a bow and switch to calm, but the delay between the creatures reaction and your Calm is higher.

Calm is also a better early choice than fear for low level mages. A feared enemy will run further into a dungeon normally unleashing all the enemies until it hits a closed door. You can easily get ten or more enemies, especially bandits, to become hostile and aware of your location.

Illusion is very effective when combined with a stealth play style.

--[[User:Lord.Baal|Lord.Baal]] 19:26, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

:Additionally, using calm in one hand and having a one handed weapon in the other allows you to quickly train up sneak.

:A successful backstab with a melee weapon is the fastest way to level sneak, giving one skill point per successful stab at low to mid skill level in sneak. Enemies that are calm are easily snuck up behind. Simply backstab them, then immediately cast calm.

:Also, when all enemies in the area are calm, you are no longer in combat mode. This means your magicka regen is much higher and usually will fully replenish itself before the calm effect wears off. You can simply wait til your magicka is full for another stab/calm combo.

:--[[User:Berserkenstein|Berserkenstein]] 16:16, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Using Muffle everywhere you go levels Illusion ridiculously fast. Having the skill at 25-40, it seemed every cast leveled it by one. (with Lover's Stone active) [[User:BMFPoochie|BMFPoochie]] 08:40, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

==Does Invisibility Do Anything?==
I was quite excited when I finally got my Illusion skill up high enough for this spell to be offered, but in all my testing so far, it does *nothing* other than make your character "seem" invisible. However, this doesn't appear to actually have any effect, as things like sneaking and pickpocketing are no easier, and random enemies still spot and attack me while invisible, even if I'm sneaking. It seems like this could be a bug, as Invisibility did quite a bit more in Oblivion. [[Special:Contributions/209.66.120.3|209.66.120.3]] 18:03, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

:I am not sure how well it is supposed to work but I was also heavily disappointed in the spell. I do notice it helps when sneaking to avoid detection and to run away and cast to have them not require you as a target. I would guess the developers realized how great it was in Oblivion to be able to cast at any time and decided to nerf the skill heavily in Skyrim.--[[User:Lord.Baal|Lord.Baal]] 22:24, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

::NPCs in the game have the ability to hear your character as well as see it. Performing actions that make noise (such as running vs. walking, swinging a weapon, or casting a spell) will alert them to your presence, even if you are invisible. If you are looking for ways to be quieter, try increasing your sneak skill, consider the [[Skyrim:Muffle_(effect)|muffle]] enchantment, or look into related perks such as Silent Casting from the Illusion skill, or the Silence and Muffled Movement perks from the Sneak skill. [[User:Chunk of ham|Chunk of Ham]] 22:28, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

:::Weird- I could swear I was sneaking (and being quiet). But what's the point, then? If it only works when you're already "invisible," so to speak, I don't know what use it has. Between this and the loss of Charm, and the low level caps requiring perks to raise, Illusion has suffered *greatly* in Skyrim. [[Special:Contributions/209.66.120.3|209.66.120.3]] 20:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

::::Even if you're being 100% silent, sneaking into an NPC's field of view will alert them to your presence. If you're invisible and 100% silent, you can sneak right in front of people's faces and they won't notice. P.S. The comment that they can also smell your character was a false edit - not by me. [[User:Chunk of ham|Chunk of Ham]] 05:03, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::It's worse than that. I tested it multiple times with one of my character who got 100 in Sneak, and I'm pretty sure people detect me faster when I'm invisible than when I'm not. They do, however, run around trying to find me afterward, instead of attacking. But overall, the spell is a huge disappointment. [[Special:Contributions/82.243.194.53|82.243.194.53]] 17:53, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::I don't consider invisibility to be underpowered at all. In Oblivion it was a get out of jail free card, which WAS overpowered. In Skyrim, it's one half of a get out of jail free card - the other half being boots with the "muffle" enchant. Being muffled while invisible makes you completely undetectable to all enemies, low level or high, in any environment, dark or sunny. As long as you don't break the invisibility or physically walk into an enemy, you are the wind. Consider how easy it is to find/make boots with the muffle enchant (all you need is a petty soul gem and some spare boots). Now consider that this combination is in many ways more powerful than having 100 sneak skill.[[Special:Contributions/173.173.90.205|173.173.90.205]] 09:53, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

{{od}}Wearing shrouded boots, which have constant effect muffle, and just cast the muffle spell on myself. (Both were active, I checked). Cast invisibility, which for some reason is loud enough to wake the dead. A bunch of bandits come running. While in sneak mode, I move out of the way, and I get detected. After getting detected, they ran around stupidly trying to find me, while the sneak eye started close. Invisibility might make you harder to spot, but it definitely doesn't make you truly invisible. There was no way they should have seen or heard me, but they did. I do not know if this is a bug or intentional. [[User:Chris3145|Chris3145]] 22:34, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== Are Master spells useless? ==

if you invest highly in illusion perks you get to a point were dual casting spells will effect enemies past level 50 easily. but the master spells are stuck in the mid 30's or the 40's if you are a vampire. is my calculation correct here? are the master illusion spells a waste of money since you cannot dual cast them and need to relay on vampirism and potions to use them effectively?

Skyrim talk:Vampirism

2011-12-12T12:54:38Z

95.206.3.238: /* Guards in Whiterun Do Not Attack? */

Check the vampire stats here: http://boards.ign.com/elder_scrolls/b5312/206684337/p1/?0 --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 15:30, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

== Skyrim Vampires. ==

the current page describes the vamprism as more or less the same as oblivion which is wrong, the vampires are different in skyrim.
if you were to check out elderscrolls wiki which this wiki has collaborated with before, you will see better information on the skyrim vampires. [[Special:Contributions/86.177.203.240|86.177.203.240]] 17:01, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

:I wrote most of that page and it is only to get the basic info and format down. We dont really need all of that info at the moment because once the game comes out, in literally a few hours, we can add all the needed info by using our own words and by using the creation kit/ construction set. I appreciate you adding all that info, but it's kind of unnecesarry right now.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 17:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
::(e/c) If you want to add individual pieces of information, in your own words, you're free to do so. Copying and pasting an entire page from another site, however, is plagiarism. Furthermore, the information you added was filled with non-information such as statements about how vampirism worked in Oblivion, "There is no information on what happens after this yet", "The same may hold true for Skyrim", etc. Those types of statements reduce the usefulness of the article, rather than improving it. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 17:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

ok but i only copied and pasted itt as a template,i didn't mean to plagiarise as i said the source rather than claim i wrote it. any way i added some more info, hope it suffices [[Special:Contributions/86.177.203.240|86.177.203.240]] 17:11, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

== The Cure ==

Once you are afflicted with vampirism, there will be a new rumour at the bars telling you that Falion (I think thats his name) in Morthal is studying vampires. this starts the quest for the cure which requires a filled black soul gem (he'll give you an empty one and also sells a soul trap spell book). He then asks you to meet him at a stone circle north of town at dawn. he performs a ritual and poof, no more vampirism. unknown if this is repeatable.[[Special:Contributions/69.255.57.130|69.255.57.130]] 08:05, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

also unlike lycanthropy, you can become a vampire again. [[Special:Contributions/86.179.19.85|86.179.19.85]] 20:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

== Contracting Vampirism ==

If one uses a shield while "fighting" vampires, does that negate or lessen the chance of contracting ''Sanguinare Vampiris''? [[Special:Contributions/74.240.233.96|74.240.233.96]] 04:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, I figured it out. One can only gain ''Sanguinare Vampiris'' when hit with a Vampiric Drain spell. [[Special:Contributions/74.240.233.96|74.240.233.96]] 06:31, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Beautiful Esthetics ==

I must say Bethesda made the Vampires look so much better in Skyrim, they no longer look like sickley old people and look menacing and with vampire fangs as well! Awesome stuff. Although the fact that everyone attacks me when im 100% vampire is quite annoying but not as annoying as being damaged for being in the sun in Oblivion XD "I dont like those eyes of yours" lawl

== Becoming a Vampire again? ==

At the bottom of the page it says you need to use a console command; in the "Cure for Vampirism" section, it says you can become one the normal way again.

Which is it?

Also, is "being in the sunlight" defined as being outside during the daytime, or can the game tell when you're in shadows? [[Special:Contributions/92.4.228.235|92.4.228.235]] 10:49, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

== Sunlight Stopping Regeneration. ==

In game, it is stated that vampirism stops magicka, health, and stamina regeneration. However, a previous edit noted that sunlight stopped magicka and health regeneration, but not stamina. In my personal experience, sunlight stopped both stamina and health regen, but not magicka, but I also had several + magicka regen items equipped. I wonder then, if it simply removes any base regeneration, but not any bonuses you may be receiving from items or perks.

someone said here on wiki that they were still able to regenerate their health because of an enchanted item that boosted the regeneration, apparently vampirism gives you -100 regeneration, so if any of the bars get a + regeneration, your character will be able to regenerate albeit very slowly.[[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 23:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

== Pale Skin? ==

It says on the page that vampirism will give you pale skin, but on my imperial (who had the palest skin on the scale prior to turning)his skin turned super dark, to the point that he looked like a redguard. Does vampirism just get the opposite skin color, because i've heard of redguards getting white skin, but apparently my imperial got dark skin.

Note: response below. I ain't the OP. Note to OP: please sign your posts with four tildes, next time.
I think, but that's just an idea, that yours is a case of wrap-around. I'm guessing that your skin-shade went into the negative values, which is defined in signed binary by setting the most significant bit to 1. I'll give an example with a byte (so, 8 bits)

00000001 through 01111111 are postive values (1 through 511). Now, in signed binary, 10000000 stands for -512, and 11111111 for -1. The game would know this, being how computers handle negatives, and would interpret your original value (let's assume it's 0) as signed, due to system-limitations. It reduces the value, and we'll assume, for the sake of argument, that it goes to -1. Binary, this'd mean the value is now 11111111. But hey! Then the game reads your skin-shade, and processes it as an unsigned binary number (1 through 1023, in this case). Et viola... Your skin is now very dark.
[[Special:Contributions/80.61.175.49|80.61.175.49]] 20:25, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
If you do not know french et viola means "and there"

== Champion of the Night benefit? ==

What exactly does the +25% do? Does it reduce the spell cost like other fortify spells OR increase the maximum level of creatures that are effected and increase the duration of Invisibility by 25%? --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 22:07, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Since it states that it makes them '25% more powerful' rather than just 25% better I'd imagine it means the level of targets affected, I could be wrong though has anyone tested? [[Special:Contributions/82.30.211.63|82.30.211.63]] 21:34, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm almost sure it increases the maximum level affected. My Fury went from 6 to 7, if I recall correctly. That said, it rounds down. [[Special:Contributions/111.68.59.71|111.68.59.71]] 05:06, 3 December 2011 (UTC) TheScathed

== Guards in Whiterun Do Not Attack? ==

I found when playing as a stage 4 vampire that guards in whiterun instead of attacking me started to defend me from other NPCs.
I dont know why, but they did mention that they know who i am and secretly hail sithis ( i am part of the dark brotherhood)

it might be because you are a thane, being a thane allows you to get away with some crimes. please sign your posts [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 14:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:The Dark Brotherhood has nothing against vampires. If they said Hail Sithis there isn't much mystery left. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 17:53, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

THe dark brotherhood is known to still attack stage 4 vampires though. And I know the comment he's referring to from the guards; I'm pretty sure they aren't part of the dark brotherhood just supporting you or something like that. Either way, I doubt the entire force of guards in whiterun is in the dark brotherhood :/ [[Special:Contributions/69.151.72.76|69.151.72.76]] 20:03, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:What is their line, then? Knowing what they actually said could help. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.3.238|95.206.3.238]] 12:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

== Stages ==

Ok so wait will you descend only one level after feeding, or fall bact to stage one like in oblivion? [[Special:Contributions/219.88.64.227|219.88.64.227]] 09:00, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I've looked everywhere for it but does standing in the shadows regenerate HP or did bethesda not bother with such "complexity" and just make it so at certain time per day i can't regenerate? That sucks, what's the point being a vampire if you're going to have to rely on potions more or less. But maybe that's just me. Seemed almost better in oblivion, at least in oblivion there was no real disadvantage at stage 1 vampirism.

Uhh... Ive been exposed to sunlight in an ancient dwemer ruin in pitch black. So, Im gonna go with "no," you dont. [[Special:Contributions/69.151.72.76|69.151.72.76]] 19:41, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Does feeding off people kill them or do you just take some blood but not all of it?

== Can werewolves become vampires? ==

Can you still become a vampire if you're already a werewolf? Or do you have to cure your lycanthropy? --[[User:Drapius|Drapius]] 22:43, 25 November 2011 (UTC)Drapius

as its been said before, there is no hybrids, you can only be one or the other, vampires will be cured of vampirism if they become a werewolf and werewolves cannot be infected. Curing lycanthropy makes the player immune to both lycanthropy and vampirism but one person mentioned they became a vampire after being cured. [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 15:21, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Anyone know why you can't be a hybrid? I find it dumb that they "limit" the game in this way. After reading a lot of ppls post it's clear that a lot of people are disappointed with this decision Bethesda made. Don't get me wrong, i personally don't really care since vampirism is more or less useless in my opinion. The addition of regenerating health from feeding as a werewolf would work well with vampirism tho since it stops all regen when outside in daylight.

Hybrids would be insanely overpowered due to a stacking of abilities, i'm glad there are no hybrids. Its not limiting to avoid having hybrids, its sensible as Hybrids are too common these days, hybrids are in Underworld and vampire diaries so its basically a cliché now.
Hybrids were in morrowind through use of a glitch, a vampire wearing the ring of hircine would create a hybrid but it looked buggy as it had a werewolf body but a humanoid head.
Vampires do regenerate and can "feed" to heal but its through use of the vampiric drain spell which does work in daylight, the lack of regeneration in daylight makes sense, i mean these are vampires after all so obviously they will be weak in daylight. The only way i would think hybrids would work in this game is as an npc antagonist of the vampires and werewolves, as the hybrid would be considered a abomination that would threaten the existence of both species. [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 18:38, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
: Apparently, the werewolf disease resistance is either bugged, or doesn't effect Vampirus Sanguine or whatever it's called. I did the werewolf ritual with the companions yonks ago, and was infected with vampirism tonight. So apparently my anarchic archer is also a hybrid... [[Special:Contributions/207.30.169.173|207.30.169.173]] 04:39, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Guess you're right i'm wrong then.

the lore states vampires are weakened or killed by the sun ergo they do not function very well during the day, vampirism is as much a curse as it is a gift so its not a bad thing in skyrim as its balanced but the fact that they are too similar to oblivion vampires is what i don't like.
vampires are not supposed be able to run around having fun during the day, if you become a vampire you have to adapt to a night life and try not to keep your former habits, so vampirism is only useless to those who try walking around during the day and living their former life, todd from bethesda said himself the vampirism changes the way you play the game. The only problem i have with it is there is no bonuses to one-handed, two-handed weapons and speed, the similarities between the oblivion vampires is a bad thing too as we were expecting the abilities of the volkihar [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 19:35, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

== Lvl 4 Feeding spots ==

If you have the invisibility spell, pretty much anywhere is fair game. Pacify was definitely helpful if a guard got too close to me in cities though.

Farms/Mills make excellent spots to feed off of as there are rarely any guards and they go to sleep pretty early. I also had luck at the Mages' collegs

== The Volkihar ==

I didn't edit because I'm not a registered user and didn't want to infringe on any style guides I'm unaware of or such but the latter section on the vampire page incorrectly references all vampires in skyrim as being 'Volkihar'. Volkihar is simply a single clan of Vampire (much like Aundae, Berne & Quarra from Vvardenfell/Morrowind) present in Skyrim, such is noted in the book 'Immortal Blood'. Referencing the fact that they 'share several minor powers with their Cyrodilic counterparts' I was under the impression that in the 200 year Oblivion->Skyrim gap the strain of vampirism fom the Cyrodilic Vampires (a clan described as the most powerful of clans) had spread in to Skyrim and perhaps mingled with a previous Skyrim clan strain. I don't have any sources to hand for the latter claim though. [[Special:Contributions/82.30.211.63|82.30.211.63]] 21:32, 29 November 2011 (UTC) 82.30.211.63

The Vampires in the game skyrim are the Volkihar, if you were to be infected by a fledgling vampire on one save file and Volkihar on another, you will just have the same vampiric powers and appearance. just because the vampires do not display their infamous ability of phasing through solid ice doesn't mean they aren't the volkihar. Game mechanics of werewolves and vampires always differ from the actual lore of them. I know why you think they are the cyrodilic tribe though, its because of the similar gameplay mechanics, but due to the different weaknesses, some powers and appearance, they are indeed the volkihar. [[Special:Contributions/86.186.126.162|86.186.126.162]] 22:00, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

== Drinking Werewolf Blood ==

"The vampires of Skyrim are unable to drink the blood of werewolves for sustenance as it both cures them of their vampirism and turns them into lycanthropes. It is unknown if all vampires are equally susceptible to lycanthropy. Once turned into a werewolf, the process cannot be reversed as werewolves are immune to infection by Sanguinare Vampiris."

I tried this out in-game (fed on Aela the huntress and waited for a day), but even after I tried feeding on nearly all the companions nothing had happened. Is this a bug, am I doing something wrong, or is this information incorrect?
[[User:Starbucksisevil|Starbucksisevil]] 17:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

in terms of game play mechanics, feeding on aela of the other circle members does nothing but when you drink the blood after its been cut from aela (which is a scripted event) it cures vampirism and turns you into a werewolf.
so its either the game mechanics or maybe in terms of lore or whatever, it only effects vampires when they are in werewolf form but so far all we know is that drinking the blood of aela during the quest will cure you of vampirism. mr.scryer [[Special:Contributions/86.179.16.150|86.179.16.150]] 17:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Should it be changed to say that they cannot drink the blood of werewolves in beast form? This seems more accurate. [[User:Starbucksisevil|Starbucksisevil]] 17:47, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

best leave it for now as you can't really feed on werewolves in beast form, the only time you get to drink their blood is during the companion's quest line and since all you do is drink the blood (there is no magic or anything) and it cures your vampirism then its a safe bet to say that vampires cannot drink from werewolves but feeding on aela or any circle member is just following the same game mechanics as normal so that doesn't go against the werewolf blood thing. Mr.Scryer [[Special:Contributions/86.179.16.150|86.179.16.150]] 17:55, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Feeding Option ==

I'm Currently playing on the pc and used console commands to make myself a werewolf/vampire hybrid, but now that i am a stage 2 vampire when i've gone to feed the option is not available to me it goes straight into pickpocket. does any1 know of a way to use console commands or how to fix this issue? --[[User:Delian|Delian]] 23:35, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Paarthurnax (quest)

2011-12-12T12:45:28Z

95.206.3.238: /* Page naming */

is paarthurnax evil?

You can still kill Paarthunax after the main quest has finished, the quest to kill will not show up in the Journal though, once he is dead it will re-appear and tell you to speak to Delphine, this was on Xbox360 [[User:Danilovz|Danilovz]] 12:25, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I'm unable to kill Paarthurnax after having defeated Alduin on PC. I can talk to him about murdering him, but when I actually try and go through with it he just flies upwards, lands and regenerates all his health. Getting him down to 0 health makes no difference. :( [[User:Tentacle|Tentacle]] 11:33, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
:: He did this with me too, i was using a Bow though and continued to shoot at him as he took off, after a 2-3 arrows the battle music started and i killed him. I also calld Odahviing to help me. [[User:Danilovz|Danilovz]] 23:03, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
::: It's possible my being able to kill him was just a glitch on the 360.. Odahviing makes references to Dragons probably not liking his Tyrannical Rule compared to Alduins Lordship.. eh.. either way, he's dead in my game. [[User:Danilovz|Danilovz]] 23:29, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
::: The Tyrannical Rule being refered to by Odahviing is the enforcement of the Way of the Voice on other dragons that are willing to listen IE one of peace and meditation. So I am not sure which side you would prefer but I think it is because Odahviing isn't too keen on being peaceful. [[User:A20052005|A20052005]] 18:33, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

It might be better to make the page Paarthurnax (Quest). --[[User:TheNerdMiester|TheNerdMiester]] 02:55, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that this actually unlocks the sidequest for new Blades members, as I've got that from Delphine straight after returning from The Throat Of The World to ask Esbern if he knows where an Elder Scroll might be. [[Special:Contributions/202.61.163.197|202.61.163.197]] 11:17, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
:Yeah, the recruitment side quest is independant. [[User:Tentacle|Tentacle]] 11:33, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Delphine and Esbern won't talk to you after this quest has been initiated. After I killed paarthurnax it gave me a side quest to recruit new members of the blades. w/e
:That's because it was available before, but wasn't available during. I believe it's unlocked after you complete [[SR:Season Unending|Season Unending]]. [[User:Tentacle|Tentacle]] 08:03, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

== Page naming ==

When a character and a quest have the same name (as in this case), is there a standard over which page gets which name?
I may be wrong, but I would guess that more readers clicking on links or doing searches would be looking for Paarthurnax the character than Paarthurnax the quest. Should this page be renamed to "Paarthurnax (Quest)"? Should the character page be renamed "Paarthurnax", or should it stay "Paarthurnax (Character)" and have plain old "Paarthurnax" be a disambiguation page? [[User:Chris3145|Chris3145]] 20:26, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think it hurts too much either way. The quest page will obviously link to the character page and vice versa, it doesn't hurt to have to click an extra link. --[[User:Lyco499|'''Lyco499''']] ([[User talk:Lyco499|talk]]) 23:12, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
::Not too much of an issue, maybe, but it does still bother me that a quest named after a character takes precedence over the character. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.3.238|95.206.3.238]] 12:45, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

== Reward ==

Is there any direct reward for killing him? Other than the Blades simply ''talk to me'' again? Because I've beaten it once now and went off to quest, I -never- had to talk to them again, but I have gone to Arngeir to get Word locations. So he's technically more useful.[[User:Zydrate|'''-Zydrate[][]''']] 17:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:There are some side quests for the Blades that involve recruiting new members. I don't know if you get any items or money for killing Paarthurnax (either immediately or after the Blades quests). Also, Arngeir still gives you word wall locations ''after'' you killed Paarthurnax? I guess he really is sworn to assist the Dragonborn. [[User:Chris3145|Chris3145]] 18:28, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
::No, my point was I didn't kill him, I'm just wondering what the "other side" is like.[[User:Zydrate|'''-Zydrate[][]''']] 18:52, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I see. After a certain point, one faction will talk to you and the other won't. If you don't kill him, Greybeards give you Word Walls, and the Blades won't interact with you. If you do kill him, the Greybeards won't help you, but the Blades have quest. Killing vs. not killing is how you choose a side. [[User:Chris3145|Chris3145]] 18:56, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
::::Alright, that answered my question. Quests vs. Reliable word walls (As opposed to shouting in a town and hope it was enough for someone to notice). Hard choice indeed.[[User:Zydrate|'''-Zydrate[][]''']] 20:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::I got the quest (bring followers) before I even started this mission, just by speaking to the Blades after we found the Wall; nobody has ever even mentioned killing Paarthurnax. (also, you can shout inside your house and you will still get noticed.) [[Special:Contributions/124.170.15.129|124.170.15.129]] 21:43, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

== Paarthurnax Bug==

When I tried to kill paarthurnax he wouldn't die, his health just goes to zero and he doesn't die. When I hit him he just flies up then lands when he usually sits on the word wall. Is there anyway to fix this? . I'm on the quest [[Skyrim:The Fallen|The Fallen]] when you "prepare trap for Odahviin" if that makes any difference. '''Edit''':I just reloaded a save and tried again and it seems like as long as you don't talk to him and tell him the blades sent you to kill him and instead just attack him outright he dies. --[[User:Ohnoitsmangofett|Ohnoitsmangofett]] 23:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Bug? ==

Moved from article: 
''After the Main Quest is completed the quest to kill Paarthurnax disappears, but you can still complete it to continue the blades quest chain (note: it seems that's there is no quest chain).After the dialogue with Paarthurnax when you return from killing Alduin Paarturnax will fly off, use Dragonrend to make him land again, then if Paarthurnax lands back on the wall he is unkillable but to get around this keep attacking him even after his health bar disappears and eventually he will fly off and become a combat target, then use Dragonrend and he will fall to the ground dead.'' 
Anybody understands what this means? --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 17:16, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

: I think the user was trying to kill Paarthurnax during the scene after returning from Sovngarde. --[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] 20:57, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== Only One Acceptable Outcome? ==

Why do I ''HAVE'' to kill Paarthurnax? Can't I just say no can fail the quest? It feels sort of bugged because I can ask Delphine or Esbern about it but I can't outwardly say no, though if I talk to Arngeir, I can tell him either I will or I won't. -[[User:Malus X|Lord Malus DCLXVI]] 00:47, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I said this on the other wiki. It's just bull because the blades are supposed to fall in line to the dragonborn and not the other way around. I even got angry enough to start slicing and dicing. (Sorry, no account!)

== Selling Bones and Scales to Esbern ==

This is in the article
: "On the other hand, the Blades will talk to you again, and you can sell Esbern any Dragon Bones and Dragon Scales you take to him."
I've killed Paarthurnax and have gotten no such dialogue. What triggers being able to sell scales and bones to Esbern?
::Why does it matter anyway, not like you can't sell bones and scales to every single other vendor in Skyrim --[[User:Lyco499|'''Lyco499''']] ([[User talk:Lyco499|talk]]) 08:15, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
:::It matters because this is a wiki, first and foremost. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.17.147|95.206.17.147]] 11:41, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
::You can't explicitly sell them to him, but you can give him some in order to create a potion. It gives you a permanent buff, but I've been unable to pinpoint exactly what it does... [[User:Tentacle|Tentacle]] 17:00, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== Need for clear and decisive pro and con list ==

I really think this page would benefit from a clear and decisive list of the pros and cons of each choice (killing Paarthy or not) I know someone has already given a basic outline (the grey beards tell you the locations of word walls and the blades give you recruitment quests) but there's the "letter from a friend" to factor in (and if your addicted to Whirlwind Sprinting everywhere like myself, you've had a great deal of those) plus the fact you can constantly visit the grey beards and ask for word wall locations before this point (by then I had 19 shouts, 3 of which I was missing the last word for and the rest I had all the words) so unless the grey beards give ANYTHING else they seem like only a good choice for people who have rushed through the main quest or just been lazy with the word walls. But then what exactly do you gain, specifically, from gaining members for the Blades? I think this would be helpfull to anyone not sure about which choice to make, which to be honest includes me. I'm standing at the choice and though I'm hardly lacking the words (I can easily look up the location of my 3 missing words on here) I still don't want to kill Paarthurnax. The page on here for the [[Skyrim:Rebuilding the Blades|Rebuilding the Blades]] quest is annoyingly empty of anything but quest notes, but the last quest note does say to ask about dragon lairs. Does that mean the blades will be able to point you toward the lairs of any dragon priests you haven't killed, or dragon mountains with word walls or what? I find it such a nonsensical choice to foist on the player, as someone else stated, the Blades are meant to help the Dragonborn, not command him. I'm rather confused, but I think I'll probably let him live. Damn me for getting so childishly caught up in fictional politics lol. --[[User:Lyco499|'''Lyco499''']] ([[User talk:Lyco499|talk]]) 08:24, 11 December 2011 (UTC)