UESPWiki - User Contributions [en]

Skyrim talk:Quest Items

2011-12-06T23:02:56Z

84.63.187.133: /* Remove Quest Item Flag? */

Bug? Cannot recharge keening. Skyrim won't show the option to do so. Attacking with Keening will show that it has no charges. [[Special:Contributions/91.42.177.163|91.42.177.163]] 00:05, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I can confirm this on my CE Skyrim for PS3 [[Special:Contributions/50.101.137.66|50.101.137.66]] 03:29, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Remove Quest Item Flag? ==

Several quest lines are bugged insofar that the item you're asked to retrieve isn't removed from the player's inventory. I know you can use the console to <code>player.removeitem</code>, but I'm weird that way that I want the quest giver to have the item. Is there a way to just remove the flag, so I can reverse-pickpocket the item over to them? (Or something like this pseudo-code, <code>player.giveitem ID NPC</code> or <code>NPC.giveitem ID</code>)? --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 23:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Quest Items

2011-12-06T23:00:04Z

84.63.187.133: /* Remove Quest Item Flag? */ new section

Bug? Cannot recharge keening. Skyrim won't show the option to do so. Attacking with Keening will show that it has no charges. [[Special:Contributions/91.42.177.163|91.42.177.163]] 00:05, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I can confirm this on my CE Skyrim for PS3 [[Special:Contributions/50.101.137.66|50.101.137.66]] 03:29, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Remove Quest Item Flag? ==

Several quest lines are bugged insofar that the item you're asked to retrieve isn't removed from the player's inventory. I know you can use the console to <code>player.removeitem</code>, but I'm weird that way that I want the quest giver to have the item. Is there a way to just remove the flag, so I can reverse-pickpocket the item over to them? --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 23:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Smithing

2011-12-06T20:55:27Z

84.63.187.133: /* Left side vs. Right side for a light armor character */

== Create page ==
I saw that Elliot said we could create pages, but it still says that I'm not allowed. If it is only for Administraters or patrollers etc. I'm sorry. But if someone wants to create a pickpocketing page, I have a list of all the perks for it on my User page. Thanks. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:45, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

:It's on a blacklist at the moment. Elliot is on about removing it so it's just that anons can't create and edit (i think) and think under 'Skyrim'. It is only Admins at the moment though. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 20:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

::Thanks:), I have the perk tree for pickpocketing too so if anybody needs it it can be copied and pasted from me. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:09, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Verifying the 'Custom items' statement ==

On the page, it claims that hides can be used to customize your items, and I'd like to know an official source for this before I start telling people about it. UESP is usually very professional, but seeing as how there is very little information about the game so far, and the source for this info isn't cited on the page, I'd like to know where the person who added it got this information from. {{unsigned|76.20.221.160|9 October 2011}}

:First, as the banner at the top of the article says, all information is preliminary and subject to change. The only way to be completely certain about any game facts is to wait until the game is released.
:The statement about using hides is a summary of several statements I've seen about how Smithing works. For example, [http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/preview-3152.html a Videogamer preview] says:
::"''Kill a wolf, for example, and you can skin him for his hide, which you can then take to a tannery and turn into leather to use as material to design leather-hilted axes and daggers.''"
:If you prefer hard-copy sources, the PC Gamer Skyrim article says, in reference to "an animal hide" found at a crafting station:
::"''... here you'd take leather and make leather strips... you'd then use leather strips to make your own swords and stuff like that.''"
:It also says:
::"''You could get other items from the tanning rack and combine them all to create weapons and armor''."
:--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sword Sharpening ==

I understand weapons and armor do not degrade, but if you can sharpen your blades does that mean they become dull after a while of fighting, or does it just increase the damage one time depending on your skill level. Thanks.[[User:Apod|Apod]] 18:44, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, they just stay at that level until you improve them further. Then when you're smithing skill improves, you can improve your weapons even more and they will never degrade below that new level and so on until your weapon is at the highest improved level possible.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
::In that case would the swords spawn with a set dullness/sharpness or start at a zero percent until your character brings it to the grind stone. [[User:Apod|Apod]] 21:04, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Let's say you find a steel longsword that does 10 damage, it will be at 100% health and it will never degrade any further. Then you can sharpen it to 110% and now it will never degrade below 110% health and it will do more damage. Then you can sharpen it to 120%(if you are skilled enough) and then 130% and so on. Once you sharpen it, it will never degrade below it's new level so basically you permanently increase it's damage and health. I don't know if you can find weapons that have already been sharpened though.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 12:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::: Ah, yeah I understand now, it's similar to being an expert armorer in oblivion when you could raise the condition past 100%. Thank you for your help. One more week... [[User:Apod|Apod]] 20:44, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Except they've taken weapon condition out of the game entirely. Weapons and armor simply no longer have "condition". They have quality levels now instead. Item durability/health is not a part of this game. [[Special:Contributions/24.237.190.24|24.237.190.24]] 18:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Maces sharpenning? ==

I'm wondering, can we also upgrade maces and warhammers at a grindstone? It wouldn't really make sense but on the other hand it would mean that we can't upgrade these weapons. Or do we have to do it at a workbench?{{unsigned|77.84.51.169|18:36, 5 November 2011}}
:You can sharpen any weapon. Maces usually kill by causing a large impact to organs or other important areas such as blood vessels with effects such as internal bleeding but by sharpening it the mace might cause puncture wounds resulting in blood loss. Workbenches are for improving armour.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

:“Sharpening” a mace might be improving the flanges (i.e. the bit on the side that help to focuses the impact) or improving the weighting (again increasing how much damage it courses) rather than literally sharpening it.

:You can sharpen bows as well. :) --[[Special:Contributions/86.9.123.15|86.9.123.15]] 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

== There is only one rank of every perk. ==

None of them have two ranks. Not a single one. Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back? Look at the images from all of the prerelease gameplay floating around. 1 rank of each Smithing perk. Whoever is keeping this charade of two ranks a piece is perpetuating a falsehood with malice aforethought. Stop it! [[Special:Contributions/97.103.109.193|97.103.109.193]] 02:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
:The only reliable sources that I've seen show two ranks for each perk. Although it's very possible that it's been changed since the beta version of the game, we'll have to wait for the game is actually released to confirm that. Any other information that you're seeing right now is from a pirated version of the game, which is not a reliable source. I'd rather perpetuate beta-version information than perpetuate illegal information.
:Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back?". The [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Smithing&action=history edit history] of the page does not show any edit, ever, where the number of ranks was changed for any of the perks. Furthermore, none of the edits that you've made to any of the skill pages has been undone. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::1 as in O-N-E rank for all the smithing perks. {{uns|91.113.8.202|12:35, 6 November 2011}}
:::There are two ranks for them as for as official sources have shown. We are sticking with official sources for now. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 12:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::::It's one rank per perk according to all people that have had a "hands-on" game. If the official information says otherwise, then it is just bogus. The version that has been made available illegally is also the retail version, not a beta. {{uns|Loufoque|13:17, 6 November 2011}}
:::::My neighbor is a reviewer and has an official copy of the game for the Xbox. One rank per perk. [[Special:Contributions/174.109.111.197|174.109.111.197]] 18:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}Well, we'll update it as soon as he posts a review with this information in it. Or, better yet, when the game is released this Friday. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 18:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Skyrim broke street date in Australia yesterday (final release). I confirm there is only one rank per smithing perk. Updated accordingly. Back to gaming... --[[User:Alienangel|Alienangel]] 11 November 2011
::"Illegal information." oO --[[Special:Contributions/188.109.121.159|188.109.121.159]] 22:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Power Leveling Section ==

"Power leveling Theory

Continually switch forges, buy out all iron ignots and leather strips, then produce as many iron daggers as possible and sell the daggers back to the forge master. Keep doing this at every forge possible and you will easily level up smithing. For those with less money, you may mine your own iron ore, but it is less effective, as it slows time.

Hunt animals for hides, process these into leather and leather strips at a tanning rack, then use the forge to craft leather bracers. Enchant bracers to level enchanting at the same time. Sell to level speech and make some gold."

Is this section really necessary? I mean, it's pretty obvious that you would level your smithing faster by getting items and crafting them into things. The only thing it really tells me is that Iron Daggers and Leather Bracers are some of the best possible options. But I don't see a Power Leveling section on Enchanting or Alchemy, let alone on any pages in Oblivion for those skills.

If anything I'd expect a page like this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Increasing_Skills to be started on instead of putting the leveling tips on each page as it makes it easier to find and leaves the skill pages for explaining the hard facts about the skills instead of suggestions and such [[Special:Contributions/76.115.250.108|76.115.250.108]] 12:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not even that good of a method of power leveling your smithing. If you are willing to use a bit of alteration magic, get yourself transmute. Then upgrade all your iron ore into gold ore, and from there smelt that down to gold ingots that you then use in the forge to create gold rings. This way not only will you be working on your smithing, but your alteration too. You'll also net a profit in the end. Of course this method is a bit mana intensive, meaning that if you haven't upped your magic reserves at all, you'll only be able to cast transmute once before needing to let your pool recharge. Sort of annoying if you consider that you have to cast the smell 4 times to get enough gold ore for a single ingot. [[User:Syntic|Syntic]] 13:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

:I agree, so I removed it and added a section to the "Notes" about this method, because it is the fastest. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 01:47, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

== Rings vs Necklaces? ==

It says in the notes section that one ingot is used for necklaces and rings, but it doesn't say that you get two rings with one ingot. I just started the game so have only been able to make silver jewelry, but the value of the two rings added together is the same as the value of the necklace, so is this statement even true, let alone necessary? If someone who knows what they are doing could remove that statement, or edit it to reflect the truth, I'm afraid I don't know how... [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:That note needs to be removed, the one ingot for two rings is the same as the necklace. As well as the fact two rings is twice the objects you can enchant ;) [[Special:Contributions/75.150.195.86|75.150.195.86]] 15:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not sure why neither of you removed it if you felt it should be removed, but I went ahead and got rid of it. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 17:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks Baron, when I tried to do it yesterday I couldn't get the edit screen to show me any text I could edit, when I looked again just now, it was all there. weird. [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Any qualities beyond Legendary? ==

Have smithing maxed at 100 (like a BAWS)

Can smithing improvement gloves/etc. be used to create anything better than legendary?

:Legendary is the highest quality. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 12:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

you can continue to improve the att/def of items with plus smithing enchants and potions after 100.
Works on Armor Hand Neck and Ring. Active effects list ring x3 instead of each piece of gear. i only had one potion of 20% so dont know if more can be added or stronger potion. Glass Armor with +100% went to 90 Def. legomike
:My alchemy skill and perks have me making 71% potions. And there are stock potions for 50%+ in the game. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
::Smithing upgrades seem to have a cap somewhere around 230 skill, can anyone confirm exactly where? Or perhaps the values do not scale linearly? -[[Special:Contributions/91.153.22.204|91.153.22.204]] 18:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Effects for improving weapons? ==

I see someone added columns to the chart showing the amount of bonus given to torso armor and the other pieces. Does anyone have any data on the amount of bonus given to weapons? Is it different for daggers, maces, warhammers, bows, etc? --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

i just got my daedric curiass to 348, idk if theres a cap or not but i havent hit it yet. im currently looking for some good smithing enhancment items (shouldve done enchanting :/ ) 10:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== daedra hearts ==

Anyone find a somewhat steady supply for daedra hearts to craft daedric items?
other than ingrediant merchants that is. If there is some way to get them possibly put it in the notes section
JJ Lopez

:The Azura's Star quest line gives you 3-5 Daedra Hearts, as well as the ingredient vendors as you mentioned. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Enthir at the college of Winterhold sells two Daedra heart at a time and restocks about every two days. You can find him either in the courtyard of the college or in his room in the Hall of Attainment second level. - Simnos.
::Also at the College of Winterhold you can use the Atronach Forge down the midden to create them; if I remember what I read correctly it requires a black soul gem and a human heart. Of course, neither of those is exactly common so I don't know if it's worth doing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

:I found daedra heart constantly respawning at Kodlak's room in Jorvaskr, after i completed companions quest line. - Riot

Just found that the Dremora at the shine to mehrunes dagon respawn. good way of making money and a steady supply of deadra hearts for armour weapons. --[[User:J.J.-Lopez|J.J.-Lopez]] 01:03, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Which branch to take ==

Should the note about going up the right side be edited? Yes the right side has stronger armor, however it is all heavy armor. For a light armor type person like myself, the left tree was a much better choice. Just a thought.

:There's no reason to use Light Armor over Heavy Armor. Once you get the Weightless perk for Heavy Armor it is better in every way than Light Armor, unfortunately. Also, as the note says, going up the right side gives you access to Daedric weapons, which at their base are better than Glass weapons. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 07:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::I disagree with this statement, Baron. If you're a sneaky type (at least a GOOD sneaky type), you won't get hit enough to ever level your heavy armor skill to the necessary 70 to get the Weightless perk. Until then it'll make more noise than light and seriously impact your carrying capacity due to the increased weight. For a combat character I'd agree, heavy > light armor. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::The Wind Walker perk is also quite usefull --Lex 23:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC+1)
:Isn't it also untrue that the right side is all Heavy Armor? The strongest Light Armor smithing is Dragon Smithing. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 08:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::Dragon Smithing is both heavy armor and light armor. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:34, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
:::My personal belief is that the answer to the question "what is your character using?" is also the answer to which path to take, if you're only going to take one. However, I will say that the left path produces substandard weaponry in the long run. Glass weapons are good, but they just don't compare to ebony or daedric. I went the right path but also took elven smithing because elven weapons are slightly better than dwarven and quite a bit better than orcish.--[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

My major qualm with the statement is that this path requires you to spend a lot of skill perks in HA (or armour at all) to make it absolutely superior (which it then will become, agreed). But if you have a few other points of interest, you may run out of perk points to do so (you need one extra for smithing plus some more for getting heavy armour to work as described). As a level 41 sneaky arch(ery)mage I have yet to have extra perk points for armour at all - and you would need 3 armour (plus 1 smithing) perk you'll miss somewhere else. You'll get better self constructed weaponry, but that's it, the other perks may be completely wasted (Boosting unarmed attack? Halving damage from falling? Both not really convincing, are they?). So while this may generally be a true statement for smithing inclined characters, it is far from the absolute truth. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.179.72|93.232.179.72]] 05:39, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:No it doesn't; at most, you 'waste' one perk. Let's say you're more interested in light armor. You're still better served going down the heavy armor branch. You get the better weaponry and the same top-level light armor. "But what ever will I do until I get to Dragon Armor?" you ask. The same thing anyone that isn't Smithing does - find it or buy it. In addition, you'll have something to do with all those Dwarven Metal Ingots you'll have laying around: make something for profit and to level your Smithing. So the trade-off is one perk to complete the right side for superior weaponry. Considering that you generally survive by killing your foes, superior weaponry seems worth it. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Question: are you able to learn Daedric smithing from the dragon armour? IE, go up the light path to dragon armour, then down one of the heavy paths to get Daedric? Because, if this is the case, then what path you go down doesn't matter, as to get both Daedric and Dragon requires 6 perks (including steel). I'm a little disappointed that the light path has two armour only perks that have no weapons but heavy armour, and the heavy armour tree gets only heavy armour and the best weapons, seems a little uneven.--[[User:Kratch|Kratch]] 17:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, you cannot circle around after Dragon Armor. I agree that the Light Armor path is disappointing. Advanced Armor is probably the most useless perk ever. "Hey, over here in the Light Armor smithing side, you can learn to smith a Heavy Armor!" --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 17:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

You're right about that (only one perk even if you're going for LA). I should point out, though, that one of the reasonings for HA is that it is strictly superior with the right perks, which is correct, but that way wastes perks to reach this state. I was probably mixing up those two aspects. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.183.243|93.232.183.243]] 21:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Fortify Smithing ==

Does this effect increase the statistics of an item when you make it or does it just increase the improvements made at the grindstone and workbench? [[User:Olioster|Olioster]] 15:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I think it increases your effective skill. Another site has a chart for the improvements that goes well beyond 100 smithing skill, and shows higher improvements at higher skill levels. I have no idea how far it goes. However, I will say this much: when my first character reached 100 smithing, I made and improved an Ebony Mace for myself, since the damage for the ebony was the same as the daedric. I had a necklace that added 12% to smithing, but didn't use it then. Later, when I was making a Daedric War Axe, I had disenchanted that necklace, enchanted another as well as two pieces of leather armor to 8% each, and used all of those plus a smithing potion for the improvement. When I did, I discovered that I could improve the ebony mace yet again, to higher than it was before. There is definitely some category higher than 100 smithing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::Yes, even if the item is Legendary quality, it can still be improved upon, and there does not appear to be a cap on how far the improvement can go, so potions and enchantments that fortify smithing, perks and smithing skill can combine to make weapons and armor that have exorbitant stats. In theory, a character that perks heavily into crafting can make some of the highest rated weapons and armor possible, through fortified enchantments, fortified potions and max smithing perks and skill. There's also a cross-crafting exploit with enchanting and alchemy that could potentially push the smithing improvements beyond game breaking limits. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

To directly answer your question, it only affects improvements made at the grindstone/workbench. Items stats can also be increased with fortify smithing enchants/potions, though the name will remain legendary.

== Materials ==

It might be useful to provide a list of what crafting items correspond to which item types
i.e.
Leather to Hide Armour
Iron Ingot to Iron Armour
Steel Ingot to Steel Armour
Refined Malachite for Glass...
etc.
:I completely agree with you, However, your use of "i.e." was incorrect. I.E. means "id est" which is Latin for "that is" meaning you are stating something very specific. I think you meant to use "E.G." which means exempli gratia which, in English, translates into "for the sake of example" meaning you are listing off a few examples, no more. While that has nothing to do with your question in any way, it still drove me insane. I do, of course agree with your suggestion, though. And it might also be useful to give examples of steady sources of these things. I can't find ebony anywhere, and it's driving me nuts! I need ebony!--[[User:M45T3R594RT4N|M45T3R594RT4N]] 06:41, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

== Steel Smithing ==

I recently aquired the steel smithing perk and am unable to smith steel...does anyone else have this problem? How do I fix this? I have reached level 30 smithing.

[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)confused smith[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:At a guess, you either didn't confirm the selection of the perk (in which case you don't actually have it yet, I did that once, open your skills and see if you have any unspent perks) or you are lacking one or more materials to make it. If you have the perk, there should be a category at the forge interface named Steel. If you're lacking materials then the choices will be greyed out. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 16:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Legendary pt. 2/3/4/5/etc ==

Apparently (according to other wiki's and my personal experience), there are more than one tiers of Legendary. I have 100 smithing and the correct perks, and I was able to upgrade my legendary daedric sword to legendary (but two damage points higher) by wearing 20% boost smithing gauntlets... Somebody with the construction kit look into this. [[User:Stouf761|Stouf761]] 14:04, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not out just yet, but yes there are tier(s) above basic Legendary. I've got two 12% smithing items and two 10% smithing items, which allow some nice improvement. Tossing a 40-50% potion on top of those allows still more improvement. I'm just not sure if the data table on the other wiki is correct. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
::That's true, look up some crazy smithing and enchanting videos - you can boost a Daedric dagger to 100 dmg or more. The limit is very high and you can boost smithing via potions and enchanting armor. --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 20:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I'd don't believe it would be possible to boost a dagger's damage to 100. I've got 100 smithing and about 60% fortify smithing items, plus a 30% potion, and I could only get a glass SWORD to 40 damage.
::::I can get a glass sword to 80 without any kind of +smithing enchants. But you can get a weapons damage to anything you want by taking advantage of the bugged potion system. Just depends on how much time you want to put into it. Apparently the most damage you can get out of a deadric swords without the time spent vs. damage increase being ridiculously low is 1200 dmg per hit. There is an article on it on the official bethesda forums anyway... [[Special:Contributions/213.81.109.62|213.81.109.62]] 01:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::A note to everyone discussing exact numbers on weapons: Those numbers are modified by your skill and/or any relevant enchantments you may have. It's pretty easy to get a dagger over 100 damage... if you have 100 skill, lots of perks, and two or three items with a 40% or more bonus each. --[[Special:Contributions/129.49.21.175|129.49.21.175]] 03:14, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
: I've been wondering this since I have a ring for +17% smithing but when I wear it or don't wear it, there is no difference in the stats of "legendary" items I can craft. That is to say, the same armour crafted with or without the ring gets the same stats so long as I can reach the grade of legendary, however a lot of things I have read do seem to indicate tiers of legendary. I'm going to test this some more tonight, as mentioned above, it's hard to know if people just have maxed enchants and skills to boost their weapon stats.

== SIDES IN SMITHING ==

i was wondering, your choice is smithing (right-left), is permanent..?i mean if u choose heavy than u cant smith light and the opposite???
:If you start taking heavy armor smithing perks, they wont stop you from gaining light armor smithing perks later {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 19:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::You can get both...did it myself. It's not very wise to waste the perk points though, so I'd just pick one and stick with it. No respending perk points, so only if you're playing the PC version can you remove/add perks through the console.

== Random armor/weapon loot ==

Just curiosity on my part here: has anyone randomly found any pieces of daedric armor or weaponry aside from arrows? If so, how much and what level were you? My orc is level 44, and I haven't seen a single piece of daedric yet as random loot. I've found a few pieces of ebony armor and weapons in dungeons, and even once ran across a hostile NPC on a road (just called Breton) who was wearing ebony armor/boots/gauntlets, but no daedric thus far aside from what I made myself. Smithing has been well worth the investment to me just for this reason. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 22:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I am hoping that you can find daedric weapons ingame at least. I didn't want to waste points going down to daedric just for weapons.

My character is level 57, and daedric weapons, armor and arrows are starting to show up regularly now.[[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Each type ==

Should we here add list of all thing that can be made in smith and what we need for it? From Iron to Dragon?
--[[User:Aleksa|Aleksa]] 21:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:It would be nice to have a crafting page that lists the materials required, their base value, and the final item's base value. But don't do it unless you can make it look good, in a table.
::Perhaps try checking the already-existing pages at [[Skyrim:Forge|Forge]], [[Skyrim:Grindstone|Grindstone]], and [[Skyrim:Workbench|Workbench]]? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 07:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Certain weapons can't be improved ==

I know at least three weapons that can't be improved via smithing: Shield of Solitude, Skyforge Steel Dagger and Supple Ancient Nord Bow, I think the article should mention that as a bug. Also, does anyone know if there is a console command to "unlock" these items into making them improveable? :)

I have found Nightingale Blade and Bow can not be improved either. And also Wooden Mask (From Labiryntian) and Diadem of the Savant (although it may be a bug that diadem is classed as light armor instead of clothing) 08:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

: I'm currently using a "Nightingale Bow (Legendary)". IIRC, both the Bow and the Blade can be improved with Ebony Ingots (if you have the [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane Blacksmith]] perk). --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Smithing Master Quest ==

I know there are some other master quests that open up when you reach 100 skill, like the one that gives you a new spell in destruction. Is there one for smithing, that gives you say, a new craftable item?

: I don't know of such but if there is my bet is that it's either given at the Skyforge (may have to complete Companions quest line first) or at forge in Riften (That special one that the smith asks you to get firesalts to "feed" to it). --[[Special:Contributions/213.178.104.81|213.178.104.81]] 22:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

::It's not from the smithie at Riften... I have 100 Smith skill and gave him the 10 fire salts. No new quest. -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 04:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
i was wondering the same thing...i have a legendary dragon armor and i went to improve it and it said to me that u dont have the required skill...is there more improveness in weapons and armors???what is the reward for the fire salts quest?i'm about to start wondering all skyrim in every shop...if there is no special reward for that just money or armor no need for all that trouble..!

== Improving weapons even more ==

I had smithing/enchanting/alchemy maxed out, made the 130 percent better smithing potion, and the 4 apparel pieces of 49 percent better smithing. I thought that this way, I could sharpen stuff to the max. (Without mask glitching.)
I recently went to improve some new armor pieces, when I noticed that I could improve my previous pieces even further! All of them! I don't know the reason for that, since skills and gear were already maxed. Did anyone else notice this? Does anyone know the reason? [[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Smithing for Money:

What is the best way to forge items for profit?
For example, how high does speech need to be to balance out the ratio of buying raw materials and selling back a finished product (e.g. dwarf armor?).

[[Special:Contributions/71.90.234.87|71.90.234.87]] 06:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC) Hairmetalml

== Smithing Silver ==

There doesn't seem to be a smithing perk for it, and it doesn't come up as an option when at forges, and I can't improve silver weapons at grindstones. I have loads of silver ingots, but I can't use them. Is it actually possible to smith with silver?

:you can make jewrelly with silver, thats it. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 13:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC))

== Bugged Fortify Smithing ==

Wearing multiple smith-increasing items with the same effect (e.g. necklace +20% + bracers +20%) seems to bug out and only applies one of them (seemingly random which ones). Under Active Effects, two fortifications are shown but they are both from exactly the same item. Anyone else having this problem?

Sometimes an item's fortifications even shows as being active when I'm not even wearing the item!

[[Special:Contributions/82.23.158.97|82.23.158.97]] 23:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am having the same bug (I'm on the Xbox by the way), both with custom-created Fortify Smithing and Alchemy items that provide the same magnitude of effect. When I wear the gear, multiple instances of the same item are listed under Active Effects, or sometimes even the name of an unequipped item of identical magnitude appears instead when I equip just one item. Also my custom-made Fortify Smithing potion won't appear under Active Effects if I'm wearing my Smithing gear. If I unequip the gear, it appears.

I haven't crunched the numbers to see if the full buff is being applied to created items. However I did try removing my gear (I was wearing four Fortify Smithing items) one by one when I was improving some armor, and I had to be wearing all four for the option to improve the armor to appear (white highlighted text) in the Smithing menu, even though Active effects claimed I was wearing three Gauntlets. So it seems there is some effect being applied even when the names in the Active Effects menu are screwed up.

== Cleaning Up the "Notes" section. ==

As you all might have noticed the Notes section is getting rather big, and is quickly becoming an unorganized mess. Rather than taking away valuable information we might do well to create new pages or sections concerning among other things: Help leveling up and items that fortify smithing... Tell me what you think [[User:Thelastoneusaw|Thelastoneusaw]] 16:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:In helping to resolve this problem a bit, here's a chunk out of the notes that should have been a discussion on the talk page: "Some items have a limited evolution cap, meaning you can't refine them over a certain level. For example, the Blades armor won't go above "Exquisite" regardless of your skill. Whether it's a bug or not is unknown. (It's not since you can't get its perk you cannot improve it twice as much.)

:[Blade armour can be improved to legendary, if 1. The player has a high blacksmithing skill (such as 100). 2. The player is wearing enchanted clothing which give a bonus to blacksmithing (With a skill level of 100 in enchanting it is possible to make +25% bonus to blacksmithing items e.g. a set of gloves, a ring, a necklace and a main body clothing item. This is without an enchanting potion. With an enchanting potion I've hit +28% blacksmithing), and 3. the player uses a powerful potion which increases blacksmithing skill. With 'perks' spent in the heavy armour tree, blade armour can reach the 567 armour cap and thus give 80% damage reduction]."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 00:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:Another note. If anyone disagrees and thinks any of these should be on the main page, post about it. "The fastest way to train your Smithing skill is to make iron daggers, as they only need 1 iron bar and 1 leather strip to be made.If you're aiming to get to level 100 Smithing, you will need a lot of gold beforehand if you're going to buy the materials. Also, after exhausting a smith's supply of iron bars, iron ore, leather, and/or leather strips, you can wait for 2 days (48 hours) to restock the smith's supply of them. A cheap way of doing this is to craft hide and leather armors at the forge. These require only leather and leather strips, which can be obtained for free through hunting. The plains right outside Whiterun are rich in deer, wolves and in late game even an occasional saber cat. All these yield free leather with an added bonus of improving archery or other combat traits. Also leather armor fetches better prices than iron daggers, racking up gold and speech bonuses each time they are sold."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 22:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:I come bearing more notes. "By far the easiest way to increase smithing is to make lots and lots of iron daggers. By fast traveling continuously between three different holds, it is possible to endlessly purchase iron ore, iron ingots and animal hides. (Whiterun should be among these, as the smith and her husband have different shop inventories.)Once a massive amount of materials has been compiled, transform them into iron ingot and leather strips. Then make iron daggers. Even at level 90+ it only takes 10 or 11 daggers to gain a level. Overall, the materials required to get smithing from level 20 to 100 using this method cost less than ten thousand gold. This gold is easily attained using the method below."

:"An effective way to raise your Smithing skill is by making jewelry. This method is very good for aspiring smiths short on money, because you can raise your skill and make coin at the same time. A good way to take advantage of this is to head out to places containing a lot Gold or Silver Ore veins (e.g. [[Skyrim:Kolskeggr Mine|Kolskeggr Mine]] which yields 24 gold veins) and use the ore to make jewelry. If you learn the Transmute alteration spell (which can easily be attained from [[Skyrim:Halted Stream Camp|Halted Stream Camp]]) you can also find or buy iron ore, transmute it into silver and then gold ore, and then smelt it into gold ingots from which you can make jewelry." --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:39, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Notched pickaxe does not stack ==

the effect from the notched pickaxe does not seem to stack with other smithing bonuses, i have the silver blood family ring, and had already upgraded my armor and weapons with it, equiping the pickaxe and the ring did not give me the option to improve it any more, i then bought some gauntlets that let me improve items more, those and the silver blood ring let me upgrade my items, the gauntlets and the pick didnt, as the ring and the pick didnt either. Feedback?

Also on a unrelated note, ''some'' artifacts can be upgraded higher than flawless, without smithing bonuses with the perk bonus, for example, my ebony mail can be upgraded to legendary using the ebony smithing perk, using a ebony bar, so it is obviously counted as a ebony cuirass. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC))

== Is there a CAP to improving items? ==

I do not know if this is true, but for me seemes that one can only upgrade items up to double their base price (without perk) or up to triple their base price (with a perk), and this is achieved at about 200% smithing, further increase of smithing does not give anything. Am I right? [[Special:Contributions/195.19.39.175|195.19.39.175]] 08:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I read about a hardcap of approximately 800 armor, anything above is of no use. Do not know if this is true.

There is no cap to the values (damage reduction is capped at 80% but the displayed armor rating will continue to increase). You can test with the console. --[[User:Evil4Zerggin|Evil4Zerggin]] 00:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

: Yea, but could you, Evil4Zerggin, answer my initial question about "smithing" cap? (that first strings are mine even if from another IP) [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 08:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Why bother with perks? ==

Unless Bethesda severely alters the whole alchemy/enchanting/smithing triangle with a patch, it seems wasteful to drop any perk points in Smithing.

For one, every single item that has a creation perk is available through alternative means. Even Daedric armor and weaponry will show up in random loot at a high level.

Next, armor has a cap. Improving your armor beyond a certain point is useless.

That armor cap can be reached, theoretically, with any items. The perks are not needed, since you can just uber-fortify your Smithing skill and get to Legendary.

Fortifying weapon damage to obscene levels seems like it would just make the game less enjoyable, unless you're playing the hardest difficulty. (how much do ubersmithed weapons help on the hardest difficulty anyway?)

Since it seems like the perks only offer the benefit of early game access to high level armor, should the page make note that late game optimizing players might just want to skip the two arms of the perk tree?
[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.54|166.182.3.54]] 03:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:An interesting posit. Really, you're going to have to spend the perks somewhere. Assume a character that has max skill and no perks in either Heavy Armor or Smithing. With Daedric improved through the enchant/alchemy loop, you're only going to get to about 51% damage reduction. Adding four Fortify Heavy Armor enchants will only bump that up to about 61%. So the question is, "Which way would it be most efficient to spend your perks?" Assuming you'd prefer to save your enchants for something other than Fortify Heavy Armor, you can spend four perks in the Heavy Armor tree to get your armor rating to hit cap (either four ranks of Juggernaut or Juggernaut->Well Fitted->Tower of Strength->Matching Set). This has the nice side-effect of reducing the amount of stagger you take. Alternately, you could spend five perks in Smithing and take one rank of Juggernaut. This will also put you over the armor cap while letting you upgrade your weapons twice as well. Personally, I think Smithing is the better choice. Under the "only Heavy Armor perks" scenario, I doubt you could spend two more perks anywhere on the perk tree and be nearly as effective as you would have been if you'd had the upgraded weaponry of the Smithing perks. However, if you're really only after the armor (say, you're playing a Heavy Armor Destruction mage), then the Heavy Armor perks are a better value. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 04:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Heavy Armor does, however, benefit much more from its smithing perk path. What of Light Armor users?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.48|166.182.3.48]] 05:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::In my opinion, Light Armor users should still go down the right side of the path. The left side of the path is disappointing in terms of weaponry, and both sides lead to Dragon Armor, which is your goal if you're going with Light Armor. With Dragonscale, you'll hit about 47% damage reduction. Adding the four Light Armor enchants only gets you to around 56%. With four Light Armor perks (2 ranks of Agile Defender, Custom Fit, and Matching Set) and no enchants, you can hit the armor cap. Alternately, with six Smithing perks and two Light Armor perks (either 2 ranks of Agile Defender or Agile Defender + Custom Fit) you can hit the armor cap. Obviously with Light Armor, it's much harder to defend spending an extra four perks for your weapon upgrades. A middle ground is using the left side of Smithing, which only costs five Smithing perks (plus the two Light Armor perks) but nets you Glass weaponry to upgrade instead of Daedric.

::::I'd never run the numbers before for weaponry, but apparently the max damage isn't that different. For example, assuming a character with max skill but no weaponry perks and some enchant/alchemy loop improved weaponry with the Smithing perks, a Glass Bow will be dealing 64 damage while a Daedric Bow will be dealing 70 damage. I'm pretty sure the weapon perks won't change the relative difference; the Glass Bow will always be a little more than 8% damage behind the Daedric Bow. The Elven Bow isn't even that bad. Upgraded, it deals 62 damage. Is it less damage? Well, yeah. Is it an amount of damage you're going to care about? Probably not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::Is it worth considering the role of the Alteration spells in this? At least for the Heavy Armor Destruction mage mentioned above, considering how often you'll need cap in the first place, 40-80 points could reliably be shaved off. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.0.227|95.206.0.227]] 12:54, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::It looks like with Stoneskin or higher, you could get by with one less armor perk in each case. In one case with Light Armor, it doesn't quite get you to the cap, but you're all of three or four points off, so that should be close enough. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:So essentially, the gist I'm getting is that if a user specializes in an Armor skill with perks, a non-perked Smithing skill will be all that's necessary to hit the armor protection cap for either armor type. The question is, then, do the perks make a sufficient difference in weapon power over non-perked improvements? Does spending five perks on Daedric smithing allow a significant and worthwhile advantage over Daedric weapons that are improved without the perk?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.60|166.182.3.60]] 17:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::I do believe the point the original poster pointed out is that it is easily possible to hit the armor cap without spending perks in the SMITHING tree....he said nothing about the heavy/light armor trees. He has a point as far as the armor goes, i'd imagine with the 150% armor bonus you can get from the perks in the heavy/light armor trees, you could easily cap out, and it also seems to be even more appealing if you plan on using a unique weapon, of the type that can't be upgraded with a smithing perk (mace of molag bal for example). if you plan, however, on using daedric weapons, i fully suggest getting the smithing perks. Basically, after 100 smithing, weapons for which you have the perk upgrade 2.5 times faster. roughly one "level" of damage every 20 points as opposed to every 50 points. max armsman, ~100% fortify one-handed damage, a one-handed skill of 82, and a daedric sword smithed up to about 225 skill (with perk) and i'm doing about 210 damage per swing...i can kill dragons in 2-3 power attacks. [[User:Limduhl|Limduhl]] 19:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::The difference between weaponry that has been improved with a perk and weaponry that has not been improved with a perk is much greater than the difference between different tiers of weaponry. Continuing my previous example, a Daedric bow that has been improved without the perk will do a mere 48 damage. The Elven bow that has been improved with the perk does much better than that. So, if you're looking for heavy armor that hits the damage cap AND hard-hitting weaponry, you could spend one perk in Heavy Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Heavy Armor and two perks in Smithing (to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). Similarly with light armor, you could spend two perks in Light Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Light Armor and two perks in Smithing (once again, to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 19:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Would you consider this drastic difference game breaking? Three shotting a dragon seems like it would ruin the flow of play, and is likely to get nerfed by a patch. What about the hardest difficulty? What sort of difference do the perk improved weapons make then?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.237|166.182.3.237]] 19:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Understand that this answer is much more subjective. Personally, I think Smithing is game-breaking. 80% damage reduction is too good. Being able to kill most normal enemies in one or two hits is too good. Without armor improvement and Fortify enchantments, the best you can do with Daedric armor is 66% damage reduction, and a bit more if you use a shield. Without weapon improvement and Fortify enchantments, the most damage you're going to be dealing with a Daedric bow in normal combat is 53 damage (or 80 damage if you get a critical hit). Both of those are assuming you gain max skill and take your perks in Heavy Armor and Archery. If you take a look at my previous examples, you can see the comparison. Smithing saves you a few defensive perks while also buffing your weaponry significantly (the same player with a Smithing-perk improved Daedric bow is dealing 140 damage, or 210 on a critical hit). Now, I haven't played on Master difficulty, so I don't know if that sort of damage reduction or damage output is really necessary. On Expert, it's not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 21:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::I thought as much. It would be worth testing the hard mode effects, if someone who owns the game would be willing, but making a note on the main page of the exploit's ability to significantly alter gameplay might be wise. Likewise, an edit might also mention that, unless patched, the exploit could gain similar benefits to a non-exploit + perk combination, which could save more "moderate" players a few perk points in their build.[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.209|166.182.3.209]] 00:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::I would be interested in that. There are many interesting perks to spend the few extra points on. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.15.252|95.206.15.252]] 17:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
{{Outdent|:::::}}
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." You can't call Smithing an exploit. It's an intended part of the game. It may not be well balanced, but it's not an exploit.

I think a part of the problem is that there is no way to level up Smithing organically. For example, I can level up Alteration by standing around casting Detect Life in the middle of a crowded city, but that's fairly boring. I can also let Alteration level up a bit at a time by casting Stoneskin while I'm in fights, which is obviously more exciting and fun. With Smithing, the only way to level it up is to grind out some items. If I'm going to be grinding and my skill has no chance of improving without future grinding, then I might as well go ahead and get as much of it out of the way as I can. This can lead to quickly getting 100 Smithing. Alchemy suffers from the same problem. Enchanting would as well except you can enchant up a Soul Trap weapon and head out into the field with Azura's Star for a more organic approach to leveling up. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 18:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." → [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/organic organic]. SCNR. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

This has drifted quite a long way off the original topic, but the short answer is "yes": there is absolutely no NEED to take any smithing perks at all, ever. It won't in any way impact the quality of your gear at any level, including endgame. There are BENEFITS to taking them though: they can give you access to "above level" gear, making you significantly stronger during the first 2/3 or so of the game. Arcane Blacksmith is an arguable exception though, since it provides a very significant benefit during those early levels, and at a cost of only 2 perks is certainly worth taking unless your build is cripplingly starved. It will also allow you to improve Uniques, which is often highly desirable. [[User:Aliana|Aliana]] 10:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Clarification on the Item_Quality section? ==

At level 48, with Smithing Skill of 100, Fortify Smithing of 12% (Forgemaster's Fingers), and Ebony Armor perk, I can improve an Ebony Bow from 56 to 95 (Legendary). The [[Skyrim:Smithing#Item_Quality]] section seems (seems) to insist that this Ebony Bow should go from 56 to 66 (+10), with my qualifications. Is there some sort of general caveat or other info missing from this section? Such as how the [[Skyrim:Armor|Armor]] section says "everything only applies to base armor ratings"? Thanks if you can help -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 05:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

: Actually that table says that "at smithing 91 with perk you'll be able to improve your bow to Legendary with +10 damage", what happens with more smithing is not in the table.[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 13:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Incremental upgrade progress - clarification needed ==

maybe it is me being dumb, but is the following true - when player's effective smithing is in range for quality X upgraded item gets quality X with +Y corresponding to X, no matter how close effective smithing is to higher border of the interval corresponding to quality X...
Thus, if you have 100 smithing and a perk, you upgrade to Legendary #1 (+10), if you add, say, 9% more smithing, you still get legendary #1 (+10), but if you add, say 20%, you get Legendary #2 with bigger bonus (+11 ?)
/Sergio/ [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 18:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Enhance smithing 100% = perk ==

I have just been messing around a bit with console commands and enchanting and smithing. i have discovered something interesting after i created myself gloves of 100% to smithing. at 100% i can improve items to legendary at exactly level 91 of smithing. one point less and it is epic. (taken no perks at all in smithing, obviously)

:100% enhancement = twice as much. Which is what every perk tells you it does.

== Left side vs. Right side for a light armor character ==

Right side is of course better(Daedric weapons and best light armor) but it also requires one perk more. Daedric weapons do only 2 points of damage more than Glass weapons; with Legendary upgrade, the difference is minor. Since lowest-damage weapons have biggest % difference, let's take dagger as an example. Glass dagger does 9 damage, Daedric - 11. That's 19% damage difference. But when upgraded to Legendary, the damage becomes 19 and 21; the difference becomes slightly less than 10%. Overupgrading with even better Legendary levels will decrease the gap further. So left side is still worth considering for characters low on available perk points. [[Special:Contributions/178.183.231.186|178.183.231.186]] 07:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

: It is, of course, only better if your intention is to make the most optimized final character. If you're using Light Armor for the first four fifths of the game, it, of course, isn't. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Smithing

2011-12-06T20:40:16Z

84.63.187.133: /* Why bother with perks? */ msg spam

== Create page ==
I saw that Elliot said we could create pages, but it still says that I'm not allowed. If it is only for Administraters or patrollers etc. I'm sorry. But if someone wants to create a pickpocketing page, I have a list of all the perks for it on my User page. Thanks. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:45, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

:It's on a blacklist at the moment. Elliot is on about removing it so it's just that anons can't create and edit (i think) and think under 'Skyrim'. It is only Admins at the moment though. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 20:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

::Thanks:), I have the perk tree for pickpocketing too so if anybody needs it it can be copied and pasted from me. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:09, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Verifying the 'Custom items' statement ==

On the page, it claims that hides can be used to customize your items, and I'd like to know an official source for this before I start telling people about it. UESP is usually very professional, but seeing as how there is very little information about the game so far, and the source for this info isn't cited on the page, I'd like to know where the person who added it got this information from. {{unsigned|76.20.221.160|9 October 2011}}

:First, as the banner at the top of the article says, all information is preliminary and subject to change. The only way to be completely certain about any game facts is to wait until the game is released.
:The statement about using hides is a summary of several statements I've seen about how Smithing works. For example, [http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/preview-3152.html a Videogamer preview] says:
::"''Kill a wolf, for example, and you can skin him for his hide, which you can then take to a tannery and turn into leather to use as material to design leather-hilted axes and daggers.''"
:If you prefer hard-copy sources, the PC Gamer Skyrim article says, in reference to "an animal hide" found at a crafting station:
::"''... here you'd take leather and make leather strips... you'd then use leather strips to make your own swords and stuff like that.''"
:It also says:
::"''You could get other items from the tanning rack and combine them all to create weapons and armor''."
:--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sword Sharpening ==

I understand weapons and armor do not degrade, but if you can sharpen your blades does that mean they become dull after a while of fighting, or does it just increase the damage one time depending on your skill level. Thanks.[[User:Apod|Apod]] 18:44, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, they just stay at that level until you improve them further. Then when you're smithing skill improves, you can improve your weapons even more and they will never degrade below that new level and so on until your weapon is at the highest improved level possible.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
::In that case would the swords spawn with a set dullness/sharpness or start at a zero percent until your character brings it to the grind stone. [[User:Apod|Apod]] 21:04, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Let's say you find a steel longsword that does 10 damage, it will be at 100% health and it will never degrade any further. Then you can sharpen it to 110% and now it will never degrade below 110% health and it will do more damage. Then you can sharpen it to 120%(if you are skilled enough) and then 130% and so on. Once you sharpen it, it will never degrade below it's new level so basically you permanently increase it's damage and health. I don't know if you can find weapons that have already been sharpened though.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 12:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::: Ah, yeah I understand now, it's similar to being an expert armorer in oblivion when you could raise the condition past 100%. Thank you for your help. One more week... [[User:Apod|Apod]] 20:44, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Except they've taken weapon condition out of the game entirely. Weapons and armor simply no longer have "condition". They have quality levels now instead. Item durability/health is not a part of this game. [[Special:Contributions/24.237.190.24|24.237.190.24]] 18:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Maces sharpenning? ==

I'm wondering, can we also upgrade maces and warhammers at a grindstone? It wouldn't really make sense but on the other hand it would mean that we can't upgrade these weapons. Or do we have to do it at a workbench?{{unsigned|77.84.51.169|18:36, 5 November 2011}}
:You can sharpen any weapon. Maces usually kill by causing a large impact to organs or other important areas such as blood vessels with effects such as internal bleeding but by sharpening it the mace might cause puncture wounds resulting in blood loss. Workbenches are for improving armour.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

:“Sharpening” a mace might be improving the flanges (i.e. the bit on the side that help to focuses the impact) or improving the weighting (again increasing how much damage it courses) rather than literally sharpening it.

:You can sharpen bows as well. :) --[[Special:Contributions/86.9.123.15|86.9.123.15]] 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

== There is only one rank of every perk. ==

None of them have two ranks. Not a single one. Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back? Look at the images from all of the prerelease gameplay floating around. 1 rank of each Smithing perk. Whoever is keeping this charade of two ranks a piece is perpetuating a falsehood with malice aforethought. Stop it! [[Special:Contributions/97.103.109.193|97.103.109.193]] 02:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
:The only reliable sources that I've seen show two ranks for each perk. Although it's very possible that it's been changed since the beta version of the game, we'll have to wait for the game is actually released to confirm that. Any other information that you're seeing right now is from a pirated version of the game, which is not a reliable source. I'd rather perpetuate beta-version information than perpetuate illegal information.
:Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back?". The [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Smithing&action=history edit history] of the page does not show any edit, ever, where the number of ranks was changed for any of the perks. Furthermore, none of the edits that you've made to any of the skill pages has been undone. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::1 as in O-N-E rank for all the smithing perks. {{uns|91.113.8.202|12:35, 6 November 2011}}
:::There are two ranks for them as for as official sources have shown. We are sticking with official sources for now. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 12:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::::It's one rank per perk according to all people that have had a "hands-on" game. If the official information says otherwise, then it is just bogus. The version that has been made available illegally is also the retail version, not a beta. {{uns|Loufoque|13:17, 6 November 2011}}
:::::My neighbor is a reviewer and has an official copy of the game for the Xbox. One rank per perk. [[Special:Contributions/174.109.111.197|174.109.111.197]] 18:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}Well, we'll update it as soon as he posts a review with this information in it. Or, better yet, when the game is released this Friday. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 18:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Skyrim broke street date in Australia yesterday (final release). I confirm there is only one rank per smithing perk. Updated accordingly. Back to gaming... --[[User:Alienangel|Alienangel]] 11 November 2011
::"Illegal information." oO --[[Special:Contributions/188.109.121.159|188.109.121.159]] 22:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Power Leveling Section ==

"Power leveling Theory

Continually switch forges, buy out all iron ignots and leather strips, then produce as many iron daggers as possible and sell the daggers back to the forge master. Keep doing this at every forge possible and you will easily level up smithing. For those with less money, you may mine your own iron ore, but it is less effective, as it slows time.

Hunt animals for hides, process these into leather and leather strips at a tanning rack, then use the forge to craft leather bracers. Enchant bracers to level enchanting at the same time. Sell to level speech and make some gold."

Is this section really necessary? I mean, it's pretty obvious that you would level your smithing faster by getting items and crafting them into things. The only thing it really tells me is that Iron Daggers and Leather Bracers are some of the best possible options. But I don't see a Power Leveling section on Enchanting or Alchemy, let alone on any pages in Oblivion for those skills.

If anything I'd expect a page like this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Increasing_Skills to be started on instead of putting the leveling tips on each page as it makes it easier to find and leaves the skill pages for explaining the hard facts about the skills instead of suggestions and such [[Special:Contributions/76.115.250.108|76.115.250.108]] 12:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not even that good of a method of power leveling your smithing. If you are willing to use a bit of alteration magic, get yourself transmute. Then upgrade all your iron ore into gold ore, and from there smelt that down to gold ingots that you then use in the forge to create gold rings. This way not only will you be working on your smithing, but your alteration too. You'll also net a profit in the end. Of course this method is a bit mana intensive, meaning that if you haven't upped your magic reserves at all, you'll only be able to cast transmute once before needing to let your pool recharge. Sort of annoying if you consider that you have to cast the smell 4 times to get enough gold ore for a single ingot. [[User:Syntic|Syntic]] 13:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

:I agree, so I removed it and added a section to the "Notes" about this method, because it is the fastest. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 01:47, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

== Rings vs Necklaces? ==

It says in the notes section that one ingot is used for necklaces and rings, but it doesn't say that you get two rings with one ingot. I just started the game so have only been able to make silver jewelry, but the value of the two rings added together is the same as the value of the necklace, so is this statement even true, let alone necessary? If someone who knows what they are doing could remove that statement, or edit it to reflect the truth, I'm afraid I don't know how... [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:That note needs to be removed, the one ingot for two rings is the same as the necklace. As well as the fact two rings is twice the objects you can enchant ;) [[Special:Contributions/75.150.195.86|75.150.195.86]] 15:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not sure why neither of you removed it if you felt it should be removed, but I went ahead and got rid of it. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 17:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks Baron, when I tried to do it yesterday I couldn't get the edit screen to show me any text I could edit, when I looked again just now, it was all there. weird. [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Any qualities beyond Legendary? ==

Have smithing maxed at 100 (like a BAWS)

Can smithing improvement gloves/etc. be used to create anything better than legendary?

:Legendary is the highest quality. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 12:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

you can continue to improve the att/def of items with plus smithing enchants and potions after 100.
Works on Armor Hand Neck and Ring. Active effects list ring x3 instead of each piece of gear. i only had one potion of 20% so dont know if more can be added or stronger potion. Glass Armor with +100% went to 90 Def. legomike
:My alchemy skill and perks have me making 71% potions. And there are stock potions for 50%+ in the game. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
::Smithing upgrades seem to have a cap somewhere around 230 skill, can anyone confirm exactly where? Or perhaps the values do not scale linearly? -[[Special:Contributions/91.153.22.204|91.153.22.204]] 18:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Effects for improving weapons? ==

I see someone added columns to the chart showing the amount of bonus given to torso armor and the other pieces. Does anyone have any data on the amount of bonus given to weapons? Is it different for daggers, maces, warhammers, bows, etc? --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

i just got my daedric curiass to 348, idk if theres a cap or not but i havent hit it yet. im currently looking for some good smithing enhancment items (shouldve done enchanting :/ ) 10:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== daedra hearts ==

Anyone find a somewhat steady supply for daedra hearts to craft daedric items?
other than ingrediant merchants that is. If there is some way to get them possibly put it in the notes section
JJ Lopez

:The Azura's Star quest line gives you 3-5 Daedra Hearts, as well as the ingredient vendors as you mentioned. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Enthir at the college of Winterhold sells two Daedra heart at a time and restocks about every two days. You can find him either in the courtyard of the college or in his room in the Hall of Attainment second level. - Simnos.
::Also at the College of Winterhold you can use the Atronach Forge down the midden to create them; if I remember what I read correctly it requires a black soul gem and a human heart. Of course, neither of those is exactly common so I don't know if it's worth doing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

:I found daedra heart constantly respawning at Kodlak's room in Jorvaskr, after i completed companions quest line. - Riot

Just found that the Dremora at the shine to mehrunes dagon respawn. good way of making money and a steady supply of deadra hearts for armour weapons. --[[User:J.J.-Lopez|J.J.-Lopez]] 01:03, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Which branch to take ==

Should the note about going up the right side be edited? Yes the right side has stronger armor, however it is all heavy armor. For a light armor type person like myself, the left tree was a much better choice. Just a thought.

:There's no reason to use Light Armor over Heavy Armor. Once you get the Weightless perk for Heavy Armor it is better in every way than Light Armor, unfortunately. Also, as the note says, going up the right side gives you access to Daedric weapons, which at their base are better than Glass weapons. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 07:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::I disagree with this statement, Baron. If you're a sneaky type (at least a GOOD sneaky type), you won't get hit enough to ever level your heavy armor skill to the necessary 70 to get the Weightless perk. Until then it'll make more noise than light and seriously impact your carrying capacity due to the increased weight. For a combat character I'd agree, heavy > light armor. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::The Wind Walker perk is also quite usefull --Lex 23:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC+1)
:Isn't it also untrue that the right side is all Heavy Armor? The strongest Light Armor smithing is Dragon Smithing. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 08:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::Dragon Smithing is both heavy armor and light armor. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:34, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
:::My personal belief is that the answer to the question "what is your character using?" is also the answer to which path to take, if you're only going to take one. However, I will say that the left path produces substandard weaponry in the long run. Glass weapons are good, but they just don't compare to ebony or daedric. I went the right path but also took elven smithing because elven weapons are slightly better than dwarven and quite a bit better than orcish.--[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

My major qualm with the statement is that this path requires you to spend a lot of skill perks in HA (or armour at all) to make it absolutely superior (which it then will become, agreed). But if you have a few other points of interest, you may run out of perk points to do so (you need one extra for smithing plus some more for getting heavy armour to work as described). As a level 41 sneaky arch(ery)mage I have yet to have extra perk points for armour at all - and you would need 3 armour (plus 1 smithing) perk you'll miss somewhere else. You'll get better self constructed weaponry, but that's it, the other perks may be completely wasted (Boosting unarmed attack? Halving damage from falling? Both not really convincing, are they?). So while this may generally be a true statement for smithing inclined characters, it is far from the absolute truth. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.179.72|93.232.179.72]] 05:39, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:No it doesn't; at most, you 'waste' one perk. Let's say you're more interested in light armor. You're still better served going down the heavy armor branch. You get the better weaponry and the same top-level light armor. "But what ever will I do until I get to Dragon Armor?" you ask. The same thing anyone that isn't Smithing does - find it or buy it. In addition, you'll have something to do with all those Dwarven Metal Ingots you'll have laying around: make something for profit and to level your Smithing. So the trade-off is one perk to complete the right side for superior weaponry. Considering that you generally survive by killing your foes, superior weaponry seems worth it. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Question: are you able to learn Daedric smithing from the dragon armour? IE, go up the light path to dragon armour, then down one of the heavy paths to get Daedric? Because, if this is the case, then what path you go down doesn't matter, as to get both Daedric and Dragon requires 6 perks (including steel). I'm a little disappointed that the light path has two armour only perks that have no weapons but heavy armour, and the heavy armour tree gets only heavy armour and the best weapons, seems a little uneven.--[[User:Kratch|Kratch]] 17:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, you cannot circle around after Dragon Armor. I agree that the Light Armor path is disappointing. Advanced Armor is probably the most useless perk ever. "Hey, over here in the Light Armor smithing side, you can learn to smith a Heavy Armor!" --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 17:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

You're right about that (only one perk even if you're going for LA). I should point out, though, that one of the reasonings for HA is that it is strictly superior with the right perks, which is correct, but that way wastes perks to reach this state. I was probably mixing up those two aspects. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.183.243|93.232.183.243]] 21:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Fortify Smithing ==

Does this effect increase the statistics of an item when you make it or does it just increase the improvements made at the grindstone and workbench? [[User:Olioster|Olioster]] 15:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I think it increases your effective skill. Another site has a chart for the improvements that goes well beyond 100 smithing skill, and shows higher improvements at higher skill levels. I have no idea how far it goes. However, I will say this much: when my first character reached 100 smithing, I made and improved an Ebony Mace for myself, since the damage for the ebony was the same as the daedric. I had a necklace that added 12% to smithing, but didn't use it then. Later, when I was making a Daedric War Axe, I had disenchanted that necklace, enchanted another as well as two pieces of leather armor to 8% each, and used all of those plus a smithing potion for the improvement. When I did, I discovered that I could improve the ebony mace yet again, to higher than it was before. There is definitely some category higher than 100 smithing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::Yes, even if the item is Legendary quality, it can still be improved upon, and there does not appear to be a cap on how far the improvement can go, so potions and enchantments that fortify smithing, perks and smithing skill can combine to make weapons and armor that have exorbitant stats. In theory, a character that perks heavily into crafting can make some of the highest rated weapons and armor possible, through fortified enchantments, fortified potions and max smithing perks and skill. There's also a cross-crafting exploit with enchanting and alchemy that could potentially push the smithing improvements beyond game breaking limits. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

To directly answer your question, it only affects improvements made at the grindstone/workbench. Items stats can also be increased with fortify smithing enchants/potions, though the name will remain legendary.

== Materials ==

It might be useful to provide a list of what crafting items correspond to which item types
i.e.
Leather to Hide Armour
Iron Ingot to Iron Armour
Steel Ingot to Steel Armour
Refined Malachite for Glass...
etc.
:I completely agree with you, However, your use of "i.e." was incorrect. I.E. means "id est" which is Latin for "that is" meaning you are stating something very specific. I think you meant to use "E.G." which means exempli gratia which, in English, translates into "for the sake of example" meaning you are listing off a few examples, no more. While that has nothing to do with your question in any way, it still drove me insane. I do, of course agree with your suggestion, though. And it might also be useful to give examples of steady sources of these things. I can't find ebony anywhere, and it's driving me nuts! I need ebony!--[[User:M45T3R594RT4N|M45T3R594RT4N]] 06:41, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

== Steel Smithing ==

I recently aquired the steel smithing perk and am unable to smith steel...does anyone else have this problem? How do I fix this? I have reached level 30 smithing.

[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)confused smith[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:At a guess, you either didn't confirm the selection of the perk (in which case you don't actually have it yet, I did that once, open your skills and see if you have any unspent perks) or you are lacking one or more materials to make it. If you have the perk, there should be a category at the forge interface named Steel. If you're lacking materials then the choices will be greyed out. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 16:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Legendary pt. 2/3/4/5/etc ==

Apparently (according to other wiki's and my personal experience), there are more than one tiers of Legendary. I have 100 smithing and the correct perks, and I was able to upgrade my legendary daedric sword to legendary (but two damage points higher) by wearing 20% boost smithing gauntlets... Somebody with the construction kit look into this. [[User:Stouf761|Stouf761]] 14:04, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not out just yet, but yes there are tier(s) above basic Legendary. I've got two 12% smithing items and two 10% smithing items, which allow some nice improvement. Tossing a 40-50% potion on top of those allows still more improvement. I'm just not sure if the data table on the other wiki is correct. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
::That's true, look up some crazy smithing and enchanting videos - you can boost a Daedric dagger to 100 dmg or more. The limit is very high and you can boost smithing via potions and enchanting armor. --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 20:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I'd don't believe it would be possible to boost a dagger's damage to 100. I've got 100 smithing and about 60% fortify smithing items, plus a 30% potion, and I could only get a glass SWORD to 40 damage.
::::I can get a glass sword to 80 without any kind of +smithing enchants. But you can get a weapons damage to anything you want by taking advantage of the bugged potion system. Just depends on how much time you want to put into it. Apparently the most damage you can get out of a deadric swords without the time spent vs. damage increase being ridiculously low is 1200 dmg per hit. There is an article on it on the official bethesda forums anyway... [[Special:Contributions/213.81.109.62|213.81.109.62]] 01:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::A note to everyone discussing exact numbers on weapons: Those numbers are modified by your skill and/or any relevant enchantments you may have. It's pretty easy to get a dagger over 100 damage... if you have 100 skill, lots of perks, and two or three items with a 40% or more bonus each. --[[Special:Contributions/129.49.21.175|129.49.21.175]] 03:14, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
: I've been wondering this since I have a ring for +17% smithing but when I wear it or don't wear it, there is no difference in the stats of "legendary" items I can craft. That is to say, the same armour crafted with or without the ring gets the same stats so long as I can reach the grade of legendary, however a lot of things I have read do seem to indicate tiers of legendary. I'm going to test this some more tonight, as mentioned above, it's hard to know if people just have maxed enchants and skills to boost their weapon stats.

== SIDES IN SMITHING ==

i was wondering, your choice is smithing (right-left), is permanent..?i mean if u choose heavy than u cant smith light and the opposite???
:If you start taking heavy armor smithing perks, they wont stop you from gaining light armor smithing perks later {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 19:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::You can get both...did it myself. It's not very wise to waste the perk points though, so I'd just pick one and stick with it. No respending perk points, so only if you're playing the PC version can you remove/add perks through the console.

== Random armor/weapon loot ==

Just curiosity on my part here: has anyone randomly found any pieces of daedric armor or weaponry aside from arrows? If so, how much and what level were you? My orc is level 44, and I haven't seen a single piece of daedric yet as random loot. I've found a few pieces of ebony armor and weapons in dungeons, and even once ran across a hostile NPC on a road (just called Breton) who was wearing ebony armor/boots/gauntlets, but no daedric thus far aside from what I made myself. Smithing has been well worth the investment to me just for this reason. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 22:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I am hoping that you can find daedric weapons ingame at least. I didn't want to waste points going down to daedric just for weapons.

My character is level 57, and daedric weapons, armor and arrows are starting to show up regularly now.[[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Each type ==

Should we here add list of all thing that can be made in smith and what we need for it? From Iron to Dragon?
--[[User:Aleksa|Aleksa]] 21:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:It would be nice to have a crafting page that lists the materials required, their base value, and the final item's base value. But don't do it unless you can make it look good, in a table.
::Perhaps try checking the already-existing pages at [[Skyrim:Forge|Forge]], [[Skyrim:Grindstone|Grindstone]], and [[Skyrim:Workbench|Workbench]]? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 07:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Certain weapons can't be improved ==

I know at least three weapons that can't be improved via smithing: Shield of Solitude, Skyforge Steel Dagger and Supple Ancient Nord Bow, I think the article should mention that as a bug. Also, does anyone know if there is a console command to "unlock" these items into making them improveable? :)

I have found Nightingale Blade and Bow can not be improved either. And also Wooden Mask (From Labiryntian) and Diadem of the Savant (although it may be a bug that diadem is classed as light armor instead of clothing) 08:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

: I'm currently using a "Nightingale Bow (Legendary)". IIRC, both the Bow and the Blade can be improved with Ebony Ingots (if you have the [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane Blacksmith]] perk). --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Smithing Master Quest ==

I know there are some other master quests that open up when you reach 100 skill, like the one that gives you a new spell in destruction. Is there one for smithing, that gives you say, a new craftable item?

: I don't know of such but if there is my bet is that it's either given at the Skyforge (may have to complete Companions quest line first) or at forge in Riften (That special one that the smith asks you to get firesalts to "feed" to it). --[[Special:Contributions/213.178.104.81|213.178.104.81]] 22:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

::It's not from the smithie at Riften... I have 100 Smith skill and gave him the 10 fire salts. No new quest. -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 04:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
i was wondering the same thing...i have a legendary dragon armor and i went to improve it and it said to me that u dont have the required skill...is there more improveness in weapons and armors???what is the reward for the fire salts quest?i'm about to start wondering all skyrim in every shop...if there is no special reward for that just money or armor no need for all that trouble..!

== Improving weapons even more ==

I had smithing/enchanting/alchemy maxed out, made the 130 percent better smithing potion, and the 4 apparel pieces of 49 percent better smithing. I thought that this way, I could sharpen stuff to the max. (Without mask glitching.)
I recently went to improve some new armor pieces, when I noticed that I could improve my previous pieces even further! All of them! I don't know the reason for that, since skills and gear were already maxed. Did anyone else notice this? Does anyone know the reason? [[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Smithing for Money:

What is the best way to forge items for profit?
For example, how high does speech need to be to balance out the ratio of buying raw materials and selling back a finished product (e.g. dwarf armor?).

[[Special:Contributions/71.90.234.87|71.90.234.87]] 06:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC) Hairmetalml

== Smithing Silver ==

There doesn't seem to be a smithing perk for it, and it doesn't come up as an option when at forges, and I can't improve silver weapons at grindstones. I have loads of silver ingots, but I can't use them. Is it actually possible to smith with silver?

:you can make jewrelly with silver, thats it. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 13:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC))

== Bugged Fortify Smithing ==

Wearing multiple smith-increasing items with the same effect (e.g. necklace +20% + bracers +20%) seems to bug out and only applies one of them (seemingly random which ones). Under Active Effects, two fortifications are shown but they are both from exactly the same item. Anyone else having this problem?

Sometimes an item's fortifications even shows as being active when I'm not even wearing the item!

[[Special:Contributions/82.23.158.97|82.23.158.97]] 23:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am having the same bug (I'm on the Xbox by the way), both with custom-created Fortify Smithing and Alchemy items that provide the same magnitude of effect. When I wear the gear, multiple instances of the same item are listed under Active Effects, or sometimes even the name of an unequipped item of identical magnitude appears instead when I equip just one item. Also my custom-made Fortify Smithing potion won't appear under Active Effects if I'm wearing my Smithing gear. If I unequip the gear, it appears.

I haven't crunched the numbers to see if the full buff is being applied to created items. However I did try removing my gear (I was wearing four Fortify Smithing items) one by one when I was improving some armor, and I had to be wearing all four for the option to improve the armor to appear (white highlighted text) in the Smithing menu, even though Active effects claimed I was wearing three Gauntlets. So it seems there is some effect being applied even when the names in the Active Effects menu are screwed up.

== Cleaning Up the "Notes" section. ==

As you all might have noticed the Notes section is getting rather big, and is quickly becoming an unorganized mess. Rather than taking away valuable information we might do well to create new pages or sections concerning among other things: Help leveling up and items that fortify smithing... Tell me what you think [[User:Thelastoneusaw|Thelastoneusaw]] 16:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:In helping to resolve this problem a bit, here's a chunk out of the notes that should have been a discussion on the talk page: "Some items have a limited evolution cap, meaning you can't refine them over a certain level. For example, the Blades armor won't go above "Exquisite" regardless of your skill. Whether it's a bug or not is unknown. (It's not since you can't get its perk you cannot improve it twice as much.)

:[Blade armour can be improved to legendary, if 1. The player has a high blacksmithing skill (such as 100). 2. The player is wearing enchanted clothing which give a bonus to blacksmithing (With a skill level of 100 in enchanting it is possible to make +25% bonus to blacksmithing items e.g. a set of gloves, a ring, a necklace and a main body clothing item. This is without an enchanting potion. With an enchanting potion I've hit +28% blacksmithing), and 3. the player uses a powerful potion which increases blacksmithing skill. With 'perks' spent in the heavy armour tree, blade armour can reach the 567 armour cap and thus give 80% damage reduction]."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 00:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:Another note. If anyone disagrees and thinks any of these should be on the main page, post about it. "The fastest way to train your Smithing skill is to make iron daggers, as they only need 1 iron bar and 1 leather strip to be made.If you're aiming to get to level 100 Smithing, you will need a lot of gold beforehand if you're going to buy the materials. Also, after exhausting a smith's supply of iron bars, iron ore, leather, and/or leather strips, you can wait for 2 days (48 hours) to restock the smith's supply of them. A cheap way of doing this is to craft hide and leather armors at the forge. These require only leather and leather strips, which can be obtained for free through hunting. The plains right outside Whiterun are rich in deer, wolves and in late game even an occasional saber cat. All these yield free leather with an added bonus of improving archery or other combat traits. Also leather armor fetches better prices than iron daggers, racking up gold and speech bonuses each time they are sold."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 22:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:I come bearing more notes. "By far the easiest way to increase smithing is to make lots and lots of iron daggers. By fast traveling continuously between three different holds, it is possible to endlessly purchase iron ore, iron ingots and animal hides. (Whiterun should be among these, as the smith and her husband have different shop inventories.)Once a massive amount of materials has been compiled, transform them into iron ingot and leather strips. Then make iron daggers. Even at level 90+ it only takes 10 or 11 daggers to gain a level. Overall, the materials required to get smithing from level 20 to 100 using this method cost less than ten thousand gold. This gold is easily attained using the method below."

:"An effective way to raise your Smithing skill is by making jewelry. This method is very good for aspiring smiths short on money, because you can raise your skill and make coin at the same time. A good way to take advantage of this is to head out to places containing a lot Gold or Silver Ore veins (e.g. [[Skyrim:Kolskeggr Mine|Kolskeggr Mine]] which yields 24 gold veins) and use the ore to make jewelry. If you learn the Transmute alteration spell (which can easily be attained from [[Skyrim:Halted Stream Camp|Halted Stream Camp]]) you can also find or buy iron ore, transmute it into silver and then gold ore, and then smelt it into gold ingots from which you can make jewelry." --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:39, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Notched pickaxe does not stack ==

the effect from the notched pickaxe does not seem to stack with other smithing bonuses, i have the silver blood family ring, and had already upgraded my armor and weapons with it, equiping the pickaxe and the ring did not give me the option to improve it any more, i then bought some gauntlets that let me improve items more, those and the silver blood ring let me upgrade my items, the gauntlets and the pick didnt, as the ring and the pick didnt either. Feedback?

Also on a unrelated note, ''some'' artifacts can be upgraded higher than flawless, without smithing bonuses with the perk bonus, for example, my ebony mail can be upgraded to legendary using the ebony smithing perk, using a ebony bar, so it is obviously counted as a ebony cuirass. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC))

== Is there a CAP to improving items? ==

I do not know if this is true, but for me seemes that one can only upgrade items up to double their base price (without perk) or up to triple their base price (with a perk), and this is achieved at about 200% smithing, further increase of smithing does not give anything. Am I right? [[Special:Contributions/195.19.39.175|195.19.39.175]] 08:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I read about a hardcap of approximately 800 armor, anything above is of no use. Do not know if this is true.

There is no cap to the values (damage reduction is capped at 80% but the displayed armor rating will continue to increase). You can test with the console. --[[User:Evil4Zerggin|Evil4Zerggin]] 00:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

: Yea, but could you, Evil4Zerggin, answer my initial question about "smithing" cap? (that first strings are mine even if from another IP) [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 08:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Why bother with perks? ==

Unless Bethesda severely alters the whole alchemy/enchanting/smithing triangle with a patch, it seems wasteful to drop any perk points in Smithing.

For one, every single item that has a creation perk is available through alternative means. Even Daedric armor and weaponry will show up in random loot at a high level.

Next, armor has a cap. Improving your armor beyond a certain point is useless.

That armor cap can be reached, theoretically, with any items. The perks are not needed, since you can just uber-fortify your Smithing skill and get to Legendary.

Fortifying weapon damage to obscene levels seems like it would just make the game less enjoyable, unless you're playing the hardest difficulty. (how much do ubersmithed weapons help on the hardest difficulty anyway?)

Since it seems like the perks only offer the benefit of early game access to high level armor, should the page make note that late game optimizing players might just want to skip the two arms of the perk tree?
[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.54|166.182.3.54]] 03:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:An interesting posit. Really, you're going to have to spend the perks somewhere. Assume a character that has max skill and no perks in either Heavy Armor or Smithing. With Daedric improved through the enchant/alchemy loop, you're only going to get to about 51% damage reduction. Adding four Fortify Heavy Armor enchants will only bump that up to about 61%. So the question is, "Which way would it be most efficient to spend your perks?" Assuming you'd prefer to save your enchants for something other than Fortify Heavy Armor, you can spend four perks in the Heavy Armor tree to get your armor rating to hit cap (either four ranks of Juggernaut or Juggernaut->Well Fitted->Tower of Strength->Matching Set). This has the nice side-effect of reducing the amount of stagger you take. Alternately, you could spend five perks in Smithing and take one rank of Juggernaut. This will also put you over the armor cap while letting you upgrade your weapons twice as well. Personally, I think Smithing is the better choice. Under the "only Heavy Armor perks" scenario, I doubt you could spend two more perks anywhere on the perk tree and be nearly as effective as you would have been if you'd had the upgraded weaponry of the Smithing perks. However, if you're really only after the armor (say, you're playing a Heavy Armor Destruction mage), then the Heavy Armor perks are a better value. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 04:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Heavy Armor does, however, benefit much more from its smithing perk path. What of Light Armor users?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.48|166.182.3.48]] 05:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::In my opinion, Light Armor users should still go down the right side of the path. The left side of the path is disappointing in terms of weaponry, and both sides lead to Dragon Armor, which is your goal if you're going with Light Armor. With Dragonscale, you'll hit about 47% damage reduction. Adding the four Light Armor enchants only gets you to around 56%. With four Light Armor perks (2 ranks of Agile Defender, Custom Fit, and Matching Set) and no enchants, you can hit the armor cap. Alternately, with six Smithing perks and two Light Armor perks (either 2 ranks of Agile Defender or Agile Defender + Custom Fit) you can hit the armor cap. Obviously with Light Armor, it's much harder to defend spending an extra four perks for your weapon upgrades. A middle ground is using the left side of Smithing, which only costs five Smithing perks (plus the two Light Armor perks) but nets you Glass weaponry to upgrade instead of Daedric.

::::I'd never run the numbers before for weaponry, but apparently the max damage isn't that different. For example, assuming a character with max skill but no weaponry perks and some enchant/alchemy loop improved weaponry with the Smithing perks, a Glass Bow will be dealing 64 damage while a Daedric Bow will be dealing 70 damage. I'm pretty sure the weapon perks won't change the relative difference; the Glass Bow will always be a little more than 8% damage behind the Daedric Bow. The Elven Bow isn't even that bad. Upgraded, it deals 62 damage. Is it less damage? Well, yeah. Is it an amount of damage you're going to care about? Probably not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::Is it worth considering the role of the Alteration spells in this? At least for the Heavy Armor Destruction mage mentioned above, considering how often you'll need cap in the first place, 40-80 points could reliably be shaved off. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.0.227|95.206.0.227]] 12:54, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::It looks like with Stoneskin or higher, you could get by with one less armor perk in each case. In one case with Light Armor, it doesn't quite get you to the cap, but you're all of three or four points off, so that should be close enough. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:So essentially, the gist I'm getting is that if a user specializes in an Armor skill with perks, a non-perked Smithing skill will be all that's necessary to hit the armor protection cap for either armor type. The question is, then, do the perks make a sufficient difference in weapon power over non-perked improvements? Does spending five perks on Daedric smithing allow a significant and worthwhile advantage over Daedric weapons that are improved without the perk?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.60|166.182.3.60]] 17:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::I do believe the point the original poster pointed out is that it is easily possible to hit the armor cap without spending perks in the SMITHING tree....he said nothing about the heavy/light armor trees. He has a point as far as the armor goes, i'd imagine with the 150% armor bonus you can get from the perks in the heavy/light armor trees, you could easily cap out, and it also seems to be even more appealing if you plan on using a unique weapon, of the type that can't be upgraded with a smithing perk (mace of molag bal for example). if you plan, however, on using daedric weapons, i fully suggest getting the smithing perks. Basically, after 100 smithing, weapons for which you have the perk upgrade 2.5 times faster. roughly one "level" of damage every 20 points as opposed to every 50 points. max armsman, ~100% fortify one-handed damage, a one-handed skill of 82, and a daedric sword smithed up to about 225 skill (with perk) and i'm doing about 210 damage per swing...i can kill dragons in 2-3 power attacks. [[User:Limduhl|Limduhl]] 19:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::The difference between weaponry that has been improved with a perk and weaponry that has not been improved with a perk is much greater than the difference between different tiers of weaponry. Continuing my previous example, a Daedric bow that has been improved without the perk will do a mere 48 damage. The Elven bow that has been improved with the perk does much better than that. So, if you're looking for heavy armor that hits the damage cap AND hard-hitting weaponry, you could spend one perk in Heavy Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Heavy Armor and two perks in Smithing (to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). Similarly with light armor, you could spend two perks in Light Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Light Armor and two perks in Smithing (once again, to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 19:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Would you consider this drastic difference game breaking? Three shotting a dragon seems like it would ruin the flow of play, and is likely to get nerfed by a patch. What about the hardest difficulty? What sort of difference do the perk improved weapons make then?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.237|166.182.3.237]] 19:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Understand that this answer is much more subjective. Personally, I think Smithing is game-breaking. 80% damage reduction is too good. Being able to kill most normal enemies in one or two hits is too good. Without armor improvement and Fortify enchantments, the best you can do with Daedric armor is 66% damage reduction, and a bit more if you use a shield. Without weapon improvement and Fortify enchantments, the most damage you're going to be dealing with a Daedric bow in normal combat is 53 damage (or 80 damage if you get a critical hit). Both of those are assuming you gain max skill and take your perks in Heavy Armor and Archery. If you take a look at my previous examples, you can see the comparison. Smithing saves you a few defensive perks while also buffing your weaponry significantly (the same player with a Smithing-perk improved Daedric bow is dealing 140 damage, or 210 on a critical hit). Now, I haven't played on Master difficulty, so I don't know if that sort of damage reduction or damage output is really necessary. On Expert, it's not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 21:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::I thought as much. It would be worth testing the hard mode effects, if someone who owns the game would be willing, but making a note on the main page of the exploit's ability to significantly alter gameplay might be wise. Likewise, an edit might also mention that, unless patched, the exploit could gain similar benefits to a non-exploit + perk combination, which could save more "moderate" players a few perk points in their build.[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.209|166.182.3.209]] 00:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::I would be interested in that. There are many interesting perks to spend the few extra points on. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.15.252|95.206.15.252]] 17:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
{{Outdent|:::::}}
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." You can't call Smithing an exploit. It's an intended part of the game. It may not be well balanced, but it's not an exploit.

I think a part of the problem is that there is no way to level up Smithing organically. For example, I can level up Alteration by standing around casting Detect Life in the middle of a crowded city, but that's fairly boring. I can also let Alteration level up a bit at a time by casting Stoneskin while I'm in fights, which is obviously more exciting and fun. With Smithing, the only way to level it up is to grind out some items. If I'm going to be grinding and my skill has no chance of improving without future grinding, then I might as well go ahead and get as much of it out of the way as I can. This can lead to quickly getting 100 Smithing. Alchemy suffers from the same problem. Enchanting would as well except you can enchant up a Soul Trap weapon and head out into the field with Azura's Star for a more organic approach to leveling up. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 18:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." → [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/organic organic]. SCNR. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

This has drifted quite a long way off the original topic, but the short answer is "yes": there is absolutely no NEED to take any smithing perks at all, ever. It won't in any way impact the quality of your gear at any level, including endgame. There are BENEFITS to taking them though: they can give you access to "above level" gear, making you significantly stronger during the first 2/3 or so of the game. Arcane Blacksmith is an arguable exception though, since it provides a very significant benefit during those early levels, and at a cost of only 2 perks is certainly worth taking unless your build is cripplingly starved. It will also allow you to improve Uniques, which is often highly desirable. [[User:Aliana|Aliana]] 10:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Clarification on the Item_Quality section? ==

At level 48, with Smithing Skill of 100, Fortify Smithing of 12% (Forgemaster's Fingers), and Ebony Armor perk, I can improve an Ebony Bow from 56 to 95 (Legendary). The [[Skyrim:Smithing#Item_Quality]] section seems (seems) to insist that this Ebony Bow should go from 56 to 66 (+10), with my qualifications. Is there some sort of general caveat or other info missing from this section? Such as how the [[Skyrim:Armor|Armor]] section says "everything only applies to base armor ratings"? Thanks if you can help -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 05:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

: Actually that table says that "at smithing 91 with perk you'll be able to improve your bow to Legendary with +10 damage", what happens with more smithing is not in the table.[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 13:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Incremental upgrade progress - clarification needed ==

maybe it is me being dumb, but is the following true - when player's effective smithing is in range for quality X upgraded item gets quality X with +Y corresponding to X, no matter how close effective smithing is to higher border of the interval corresponding to quality X...
Thus, if you have 100 smithing and a perk, you upgrade to Legendary #1 (+10), if you add, say, 9% more smithing, you still get legendary #1 (+10), but if you add, say 20%, you get Legendary #2 with bigger bonus (+11 ?)
/Sergio/ [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 18:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Enhance smithing 100% = perk ==

I have just been messing around a bit with console commands and enchanting and smithing. i have discovered something interesting after i created myself gloves of 100% to smithing. at 100% i can improve items to legendary at exactly level 91 of smithing. one point less and it is epic. (taken no perks at all in smithing, obviously)

== Left side vs. Right side for a light armor character ==

Right side is of course better(Daedric weapons and best light armor) but it also requires one perk more. Daedric weapons do only 2 points of damage more than Glass weapons; with Legendary upgrade, the difference is minor. Since lowest-damage weapons have biggest % difference, let's take dagger as an example. Glass dagger does 9 damage, Daedric - 11. That's 19% damage difference. But when upgraded to Legendary, the damage becomes 19 and 21; the difference becomes slightly less than 10%. Overupgrading with even better Legendary levels will decrease the gap further. So left side is still worth considering for characters low on available perk points. [[Special:Contributions/178.183.231.186|178.183.231.186]] 07:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Smithing

2011-12-06T20:19:37Z

84.63.187.133: /* Is there a CAP to improving items? */ fixed indentation

== Create page ==
I saw that Elliot said we could create pages, but it still says that I'm not allowed. If it is only for Administraters or patrollers etc. I'm sorry. But if someone wants to create a pickpocketing page, I have a list of all the perks for it on my User page. Thanks. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:45, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

:It's on a blacklist at the moment. Elliot is on about removing it so it's just that anons can't create and edit (i think) and think under 'Skyrim'. It is only Admins at the moment though. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 20:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

::Thanks:), I have the perk tree for pickpocketing too so if anybody needs it it can be copied and pasted from me. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:09, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Verifying the 'Custom items' statement ==

On the page, it claims that hides can be used to customize your items, and I'd like to know an official source for this before I start telling people about it. UESP is usually very professional, but seeing as how there is very little information about the game so far, and the source for this info isn't cited on the page, I'd like to know where the person who added it got this information from. {{unsigned|76.20.221.160|9 October 2011}}

:First, as the banner at the top of the article says, all information is preliminary and subject to change. The only way to be completely certain about any game facts is to wait until the game is released.
:The statement about using hides is a summary of several statements I've seen about how Smithing works. For example, [http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/preview-3152.html a Videogamer preview] says:
::"''Kill a wolf, for example, and you can skin him for his hide, which you can then take to a tannery and turn into leather to use as material to design leather-hilted axes and daggers.''"
:If you prefer hard-copy sources, the PC Gamer Skyrim article says, in reference to "an animal hide" found at a crafting station:
::"''... here you'd take leather and make leather strips... you'd then use leather strips to make your own swords and stuff like that.''"
:It also says:
::"''You could get other items from the tanning rack and combine them all to create weapons and armor''."
:--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sword Sharpening ==

I understand weapons and armor do not degrade, but if you can sharpen your blades does that mean they become dull after a while of fighting, or does it just increase the damage one time depending on your skill level. Thanks.[[User:Apod|Apod]] 18:44, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, they just stay at that level until you improve them further. Then when you're smithing skill improves, you can improve your weapons even more and they will never degrade below that new level and so on until your weapon is at the highest improved level possible.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
::In that case would the swords spawn with a set dullness/sharpness or start at a zero percent until your character brings it to the grind stone. [[User:Apod|Apod]] 21:04, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Let's say you find a steel longsword that does 10 damage, it will be at 100% health and it will never degrade any further. Then you can sharpen it to 110% and now it will never degrade below 110% health and it will do more damage. Then you can sharpen it to 120%(if you are skilled enough) and then 130% and so on. Once you sharpen it, it will never degrade below it's new level so basically you permanently increase it's damage and health. I don't know if you can find weapons that have already been sharpened though.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 12:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::: Ah, yeah I understand now, it's similar to being an expert armorer in oblivion when you could raise the condition past 100%. Thank you for your help. One more week... [[User:Apod|Apod]] 20:44, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Except they've taken weapon condition out of the game entirely. Weapons and armor simply no longer have "condition". They have quality levels now instead. Item durability/health is not a part of this game. [[Special:Contributions/24.237.190.24|24.237.190.24]] 18:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Maces sharpenning? ==

I'm wondering, can we also upgrade maces and warhammers at a grindstone? It wouldn't really make sense but on the other hand it would mean that we can't upgrade these weapons. Or do we have to do it at a workbench?{{unsigned|77.84.51.169|18:36, 5 November 2011}}
:You can sharpen any weapon. Maces usually kill by causing a large impact to organs or other important areas such as blood vessels with effects such as internal bleeding but by sharpening it the mace might cause puncture wounds resulting in blood loss. Workbenches are for improving armour.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

:“Sharpening” a mace might be improving the flanges (i.e. the bit on the side that help to focuses the impact) or improving the weighting (again increasing how much damage it courses) rather than literally sharpening it.

:You can sharpen bows as well. :) --[[Special:Contributions/86.9.123.15|86.9.123.15]] 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

== There is only one rank of every perk. ==

None of them have two ranks. Not a single one. Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back? Look at the images from all of the prerelease gameplay floating around. 1 rank of each Smithing perk. Whoever is keeping this charade of two ranks a piece is perpetuating a falsehood with malice aforethought. Stop it! [[Special:Contributions/97.103.109.193|97.103.109.193]] 02:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
:The only reliable sources that I've seen show two ranks for each perk. Although it's very possible that it's been changed since the beta version of the game, we'll have to wait for the game is actually released to confirm that. Any other information that you're seeing right now is from a pirated version of the game, which is not a reliable source. I'd rather perpetuate beta-version information than perpetuate illegal information.
:Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back?". The [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Smithing&action=history edit history] of the page does not show any edit, ever, where the number of ranks was changed for any of the perks. Furthermore, none of the edits that you've made to any of the skill pages has been undone. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::1 as in O-N-E rank for all the smithing perks. {{uns|91.113.8.202|12:35, 6 November 2011}}
:::There are two ranks for them as for as official sources have shown. We are sticking with official sources for now. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 12:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::::It's one rank per perk according to all people that have had a "hands-on" game. If the official information says otherwise, then it is just bogus. The version that has been made available illegally is also the retail version, not a beta. {{uns|Loufoque|13:17, 6 November 2011}}
:::::My neighbor is a reviewer and has an official copy of the game for the Xbox. One rank per perk. [[Special:Contributions/174.109.111.197|174.109.111.197]] 18:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}Well, we'll update it as soon as he posts a review with this information in it. Or, better yet, when the game is released this Friday. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 18:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Skyrim broke street date in Australia yesterday (final release). I confirm there is only one rank per smithing perk. Updated accordingly. Back to gaming... --[[User:Alienangel|Alienangel]] 11 November 2011
::"Illegal information." oO --[[Special:Contributions/188.109.121.159|188.109.121.159]] 22:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Power Leveling Section ==

"Power leveling Theory

Continually switch forges, buy out all iron ignots and leather strips, then produce as many iron daggers as possible and sell the daggers back to the forge master. Keep doing this at every forge possible and you will easily level up smithing. For those with less money, you may mine your own iron ore, but it is less effective, as it slows time.

Hunt animals for hides, process these into leather and leather strips at a tanning rack, then use the forge to craft leather bracers. Enchant bracers to level enchanting at the same time. Sell to level speech and make some gold."

Is this section really necessary? I mean, it's pretty obvious that you would level your smithing faster by getting items and crafting them into things. The only thing it really tells me is that Iron Daggers and Leather Bracers are some of the best possible options. But I don't see a Power Leveling section on Enchanting or Alchemy, let alone on any pages in Oblivion for those skills.

If anything I'd expect a page like this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Increasing_Skills to be started on instead of putting the leveling tips on each page as it makes it easier to find and leaves the skill pages for explaining the hard facts about the skills instead of suggestions and such [[Special:Contributions/76.115.250.108|76.115.250.108]] 12:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not even that good of a method of power leveling your smithing. If you are willing to use a bit of alteration magic, get yourself transmute. Then upgrade all your iron ore into gold ore, and from there smelt that down to gold ingots that you then use in the forge to create gold rings. This way not only will you be working on your smithing, but your alteration too. You'll also net a profit in the end. Of course this method is a bit mana intensive, meaning that if you haven't upped your magic reserves at all, you'll only be able to cast transmute once before needing to let your pool recharge. Sort of annoying if you consider that you have to cast the smell 4 times to get enough gold ore for a single ingot. [[User:Syntic|Syntic]] 13:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

:I agree, so I removed it and added a section to the "Notes" about this method, because it is the fastest. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 01:47, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

== Rings vs Necklaces? ==

It says in the notes section that one ingot is used for necklaces and rings, but it doesn't say that you get two rings with one ingot. I just started the game so have only been able to make silver jewelry, but the value of the two rings added together is the same as the value of the necklace, so is this statement even true, let alone necessary? If someone who knows what they are doing could remove that statement, or edit it to reflect the truth, I'm afraid I don't know how... [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:That note needs to be removed, the one ingot for two rings is the same as the necklace. As well as the fact two rings is twice the objects you can enchant ;) [[Special:Contributions/75.150.195.86|75.150.195.86]] 15:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not sure why neither of you removed it if you felt it should be removed, but I went ahead and got rid of it. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 17:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks Baron, when I tried to do it yesterday I couldn't get the edit screen to show me any text I could edit, when I looked again just now, it was all there. weird. [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Any qualities beyond Legendary? ==

Have smithing maxed at 100 (like a BAWS)

Can smithing improvement gloves/etc. be used to create anything better than legendary?

:Legendary is the highest quality. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 12:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

you can continue to improve the att/def of items with plus smithing enchants and potions after 100.
Works on Armor Hand Neck and Ring. Active effects list ring x3 instead of each piece of gear. i only had one potion of 20% so dont know if more can be added or stronger potion. Glass Armor with +100% went to 90 Def. legomike
:My alchemy skill and perks have me making 71% potions. And there are stock potions for 50%+ in the game. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
::Smithing upgrades seem to have a cap somewhere around 230 skill, can anyone confirm exactly where? Or perhaps the values do not scale linearly? -[[Special:Contributions/91.153.22.204|91.153.22.204]] 18:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Effects for improving weapons? ==

I see someone added columns to the chart showing the amount of bonus given to torso armor and the other pieces. Does anyone have any data on the amount of bonus given to weapons? Is it different for daggers, maces, warhammers, bows, etc? --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

i just got my daedric curiass to 348, idk if theres a cap or not but i havent hit it yet. im currently looking for some good smithing enhancment items (shouldve done enchanting :/ ) 10:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== daedra hearts ==

Anyone find a somewhat steady supply for daedra hearts to craft daedric items?
other than ingrediant merchants that is. If there is some way to get them possibly put it in the notes section
JJ Lopez

:The Azura's Star quest line gives you 3-5 Daedra Hearts, as well as the ingredient vendors as you mentioned. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Enthir at the college of Winterhold sells two Daedra heart at a time and restocks about every two days. You can find him either in the courtyard of the college or in his room in the Hall of Attainment second level. - Simnos.
::Also at the College of Winterhold you can use the Atronach Forge down the midden to create them; if I remember what I read correctly it requires a black soul gem and a human heart. Of course, neither of those is exactly common so I don't know if it's worth doing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

:I found daedra heart constantly respawning at Kodlak's room in Jorvaskr, after i completed companions quest line. - Riot

Just found that the Dremora at the shine to mehrunes dagon respawn. good way of making money and a steady supply of deadra hearts for armour weapons. --[[User:J.J.-Lopez|J.J.-Lopez]] 01:03, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Which branch to take ==

Should the note about going up the right side be edited? Yes the right side has stronger armor, however it is all heavy armor. For a light armor type person like myself, the left tree was a much better choice. Just a thought.

:There's no reason to use Light Armor over Heavy Armor. Once you get the Weightless perk for Heavy Armor it is better in every way than Light Armor, unfortunately. Also, as the note says, going up the right side gives you access to Daedric weapons, which at their base are better than Glass weapons. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 07:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::I disagree with this statement, Baron. If you're a sneaky type (at least a GOOD sneaky type), you won't get hit enough to ever level your heavy armor skill to the necessary 70 to get the Weightless perk. Until then it'll make more noise than light and seriously impact your carrying capacity due to the increased weight. For a combat character I'd agree, heavy > light armor. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::The Wind Walker perk is also quite usefull --Lex 23:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC+1)
:Isn't it also untrue that the right side is all Heavy Armor? The strongest Light Armor smithing is Dragon Smithing. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 08:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::Dragon Smithing is both heavy armor and light armor. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:34, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
:::My personal belief is that the answer to the question "what is your character using?" is also the answer to which path to take, if you're only going to take one. However, I will say that the left path produces substandard weaponry in the long run. Glass weapons are good, but they just don't compare to ebony or daedric. I went the right path but also took elven smithing because elven weapons are slightly better than dwarven and quite a bit better than orcish.--[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

My major qualm with the statement is that this path requires you to spend a lot of skill perks in HA (or armour at all) to make it absolutely superior (which it then will become, agreed). But if you have a few other points of interest, you may run out of perk points to do so (you need one extra for smithing plus some more for getting heavy armour to work as described). As a level 41 sneaky arch(ery)mage I have yet to have extra perk points for armour at all - and you would need 3 armour (plus 1 smithing) perk you'll miss somewhere else. You'll get better self constructed weaponry, but that's it, the other perks may be completely wasted (Boosting unarmed attack? Halving damage from falling? Both not really convincing, are they?). So while this may generally be a true statement for smithing inclined characters, it is far from the absolute truth. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.179.72|93.232.179.72]] 05:39, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:No it doesn't; at most, you 'waste' one perk. Let's say you're more interested in light armor. You're still better served going down the heavy armor branch. You get the better weaponry and the same top-level light armor. "But what ever will I do until I get to Dragon Armor?" you ask. The same thing anyone that isn't Smithing does - find it or buy it. In addition, you'll have something to do with all those Dwarven Metal Ingots you'll have laying around: make something for profit and to level your Smithing. So the trade-off is one perk to complete the right side for superior weaponry. Considering that you generally survive by killing your foes, superior weaponry seems worth it. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Question: are you able to learn Daedric smithing from the dragon armour? IE, go up the light path to dragon armour, then down one of the heavy paths to get Daedric? Because, if this is the case, then what path you go down doesn't matter, as to get both Daedric and Dragon requires 6 perks (including steel). I'm a little disappointed that the light path has two armour only perks that have no weapons but heavy armour, and the heavy armour tree gets only heavy armour and the best weapons, seems a little uneven.--[[User:Kratch|Kratch]] 17:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, you cannot circle around after Dragon Armor. I agree that the Light Armor path is disappointing. Advanced Armor is probably the most useless perk ever. "Hey, over here in the Light Armor smithing side, you can learn to smith a Heavy Armor!" --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 17:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

You're right about that (only one perk even if you're going for LA). I should point out, though, that one of the reasonings for HA is that it is strictly superior with the right perks, which is correct, but that way wastes perks to reach this state. I was probably mixing up those two aspects. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.183.243|93.232.183.243]] 21:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Fortify Smithing ==

Does this effect increase the statistics of an item when you make it or does it just increase the improvements made at the grindstone and workbench? [[User:Olioster|Olioster]] 15:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I think it increases your effective skill. Another site has a chart for the improvements that goes well beyond 100 smithing skill, and shows higher improvements at higher skill levels. I have no idea how far it goes. However, I will say this much: when my first character reached 100 smithing, I made and improved an Ebony Mace for myself, since the damage for the ebony was the same as the daedric. I had a necklace that added 12% to smithing, but didn't use it then. Later, when I was making a Daedric War Axe, I had disenchanted that necklace, enchanted another as well as two pieces of leather armor to 8% each, and used all of those plus a smithing potion for the improvement. When I did, I discovered that I could improve the ebony mace yet again, to higher than it was before. There is definitely some category higher than 100 smithing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::Yes, even if the item is Legendary quality, it can still be improved upon, and there does not appear to be a cap on how far the improvement can go, so potions and enchantments that fortify smithing, perks and smithing skill can combine to make weapons and armor that have exorbitant stats. In theory, a character that perks heavily into crafting can make some of the highest rated weapons and armor possible, through fortified enchantments, fortified potions and max smithing perks and skill. There's also a cross-crafting exploit with enchanting and alchemy that could potentially push the smithing improvements beyond game breaking limits. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

To directly answer your question, it only affects improvements made at the grindstone/workbench. Items stats can also be increased with fortify smithing enchants/potions, though the name will remain legendary.

== Materials ==

It might be useful to provide a list of what crafting items correspond to which item types
i.e.
Leather to Hide Armour
Iron Ingot to Iron Armour
Steel Ingot to Steel Armour
Refined Malachite for Glass...
etc.
:I completely agree with you, However, your use of "i.e." was incorrect. I.E. means "id est" which is Latin for "that is" meaning you are stating something very specific. I think you meant to use "E.G." which means exempli gratia which, in English, translates into "for the sake of example" meaning you are listing off a few examples, no more. While that has nothing to do with your question in any way, it still drove me insane. I do, of course agree with your suggestion, though. And it might also be useful to give examples of steady sources of these things. I can't find ebony anywhere, and it's driving me nuts! I need ebony!--[[User:M45T3R594RT4N|M45T3R594RT4N]] 06:41, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

== Steel Smithing ==

I recently aquired the steel smithing perk and am unable to smith steel...does anyone else have this problem? How do I fix this? I have reached level 30 smithing.

[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)confused smith[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:At a guess, you either didn't confirm the selection of the perk (in which case you don't actually have it yet, I did that once, open your skills and see if you have any unspent perks) or you are lacking one or more materials to make it. If you have the perk, there should be a category at the forge interface named Steel. If you're lacking materials then the choices will be greyed out. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 16:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Legendary pt. 2/3/4/5/etc ==

Apparently (according to other wiki's and my personal experience), there are more than one tiers of Legendary. I have 100 smithing and the correct perks, and I was able to upgrade my legendary daedric sword to legendary (but two damage points higher) by wearing 20% boost smithing gauntlets... Somebody with the construction kit look into this. [[User:Stouf761|Stouf761]] 14:04, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not out just yet, but yes there are tier(s) above basic Legendary. I've got two 12% smithing items and two 10% smithing items, which allow some nice improvement. Tossing a 40-50% potion on top of those allows still more improvement. I'm just not sure if the data table on the other wiki is correct. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
::That's true, look up some crazy smithing and enchanting videos - you can boost a Daedric dagger to 100 dmg or more. The limit is very high and you can boost smithing via potions and enchanting armor. --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 20:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I'd don't believe it would be possible to boost a dagger's damage to 100. I've got 100 smithing and about 60% fortify smithing items, plus a 30% potion, and I could only get a glass SWORD to 40 damage.
::::I can get a glass sword to 80 without any kind of +smithing enchants. But you can get a weapons damage to anything you want by taking advantage of the bugged potion system. Just depends on how much time you want to put into it. Apparently the most damage you can get out of a deadric swords without the time spent vs. damage increase being ridiculously low is 1200 dmg per hit. There is an article on it on the official bethesda forums anyway... [[Special:Contributions/213.81.109.62|213.81.109.62]] 01:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::A note to everyone discussing exact numbers on weapons: Those numbers are modified by your skill and/or any relevant enchantments you may have. It's pretty easy to get a dagger over 100 damage... if you have 100 skill, lots of perks, and two or three items with a 40% or more bonus each. --[[Special:Contributions/129.49.21.175|129.49.21.175]] 03:14, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
: I've been wondering this since I have a ring for +17% smithing but when I wear it or don't wear it, there is no difference in the stats of "legendary" items I can craft. That is to say, the same armour crafted with or without the ring gets the same stats so long as I can reach the grade of legendary, however a lot of things I have read do seem to indicate tiers of legendary. I'm going to test this some more tonight, as mentioned above, it's hard to know if people just have maxed enchants and skills to boost their weapon stats.

== SIDES IN SMITHING ==

i was wondering, your choice is smithing (right-left), is permanent..?i mean if u choose heavy than u cant smith light and the opposite???
:If you start taking heavy armor smithing perks, they wont stop you from gaining light armor smithing perks later {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 19:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::You can get both...did it myself. It's not very wise to waste the perk points though, so I'd just pick one and stick with it. No respending perk points, so only if you're playing the PC version can you remove/add perks through the console.

== Random armor/weapon loot ==

Just curiosity on my part here: has anyone randomly found any pieces of daedric armor or weaponry aside from arrows? If so, how much and what level were you? My orc is level 44, and I haven't seen a single piece of daedric yet as random loot. I've found a few pieces of ebony armor and weapons in dungeons, and even once ran across a hostile NPC on a road (just called Breton) who was wearing ebony armor/boots/gauntlets, but no daedric thus far aside from what I made myself. Smithing has been well worth the investment to me just for this reason. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 22:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I am hoping that you can find daedric weapons ingame at least. I didn't want to waste points going down to daedric just for weapons.

My character is level 57, and daedric weapons, armor and arrows are starting to show up regularly now.[[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Each type ==

Should we here add list of all thing that can be made in smith and what we need for it? From Iron to Dragon?
--[[User:Aleksa|Aleksa]] 21:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:It would be nice to have a crafting page that lists the materials required, their base value, and the final item's base value. But don't do it unless you can make it look good, in a table.
::Perhaps try checking the already-existing pages at [[Skyrim:Forge|Forge]], [[Skyrim:Grindstone|Grindstone]], and [[Skyrim:Workbench|Workbench]]? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 07:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Certain weapons can't be improved ==

I know at least three weapons that can't be improved via smithing: Shield of Solitude, Skyforge Steel Dagger and Supple Ancient Nord Bow, I think the article should mention that as a bug. Also, does anyone know if there is a console command to "unlock" these items into making them improveable? :)

I have found Nightingale Blade and Bow can not be improved either. And also Wooden Mask (From Labiryntian) and Diadem of the Savant (although it may be a bug that diadem is classed as light armor instead of clothing) 08:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

: I'm currently using a "Nightingale Bow (Legendary)". IIRC, both the Bow and the Blade can be improved with Ebony Ingots (if you have the [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane Blacksmith]] perk). --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Smithing Master Quest ==

I know there are some other master quests that open up when you reach 100 skill, like the one that gives you a new spell in destruction. Is there one for smithing, that gives you say, a new craftable item?

: I don't know of such but if there is my bet is that it's either given at the Skyforge (may have to complete Companions quest line first) or at forge in Riften (That special one that the smith asks you to get firesalts to "feed" to it). --[[Special:Contributions/213.178.104.81|213.178.104.81]] 22:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

::It's not from the smithie at Riften... I have 100 Smith skill and gave him the 10 fire salts. No new quest. -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 04:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
i was wondering the same thing...i have a legendary dragon armor and i went to improve it and it said to me that u dont have the required skill...is there more improveness in weapons and armors???what is the reward for the fire salts quest?i'm about to start wondering all skyrim in every shop...if there is no special reward for that just money or armor no need for all that trouble..!

== Improving weapons even more ==

I had smithing/enchanting/alchemy maxed out, made the 130 percent better smithing potion, and the 4 apparel pieces of 49 percent better smithing. I thought that this way, I could sharpen stuff to the max. (Without mask glitching.)
I recently went to improve some new armor pieces, when I noticed that I could improve my previous pieces even further! All of them! I don't know the reason for that, since skills and gear were already maxed. Did anyone else notice this? Does anyone know the reason? [[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Smithing for Money:

What is the best way to forge items for profit?
For example, how high does speech need to be to balance out the ratio of buying raw materials and selling back a finished product (e.g. dwarf armor?).

[[Special:Contributions/71.90.234.87|71.90.234.87]] 06:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC) Hairmetalml

== Smithing Silver ==

There doesn't seem to be a smithing perk for it, and it doesn't come up as an option when at forges, and I can't improve silver weapons at grindstones. I have loads of silver ingots, but I can't use them. Is it actually possible to smith with silver?

:you can make jewrelly with silver, thats it. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 13:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC))

== Bugged Fortify Smithing ==

Wearing multiple smith-increasing items with the same effect (e.g. necklace +20% + bracers +20%) seems to bug out and only applies one of them (seemingly random which ones). Under Active Effects, two fortifications are shown but they are both from exactly the same item. Anyone else having this problem?

Sometimes an item's fortifications even shows as being active when I'm not even wearing the item!

[[Special:Contributions/82.23.158.97|82.23.158.97]] 23:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am having the same bug (I'm on the Xbox by the way), both with custom-created Fortify Smithing and Alchemy items that provide the same magnitude of effect. When I wear the gear, multiple instances of the same item are listed under Active Effects, or sometimes even the name of an unequipped item of identical magnitude appears instead when I equip just one item. Also my custom-made Fortify Smithing potion won't appear under Active Effects if I'm wearing my Smithing gear. If I unequip the gear, it appears.

I haven't crunched the numbers to see if the full buff is being applied to created items. However I did try removing my gear (I was wearing four Fortify Smithing items) one by one when I was improving some armor, and I had to be wearing all four for the option to improve the armor to appear (white highlighted text) in the Smithing menu, even though Active effects claimed I was wearing three Gauntlets. So it seems there is some effect being applied even when the names in the Active Effects menu are screwed up.

== Cleaning Up the "Notes" section. ==

As you all might have noticed the Notes section is getting rather big, and is quickly becoming an unorganized mess. Rather than taking away valuable information we might do well to create new pages or sections concerning among other things: Help leveling up and items that fortify smithing... Tell me what you think [[User:Thelastoneusaw|Thelastoneusaw]] 16:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:In helping to resolve this problem a bit, here's a chunk out of the notes that should have been a discussion on the talk page: "Some items have a limited evolution cap, meaning you can't refine them over a certain level. For example, the Blades armor won't go above "Exquisite" regardless of your skill. Whether it's a bug or not is unknown. (It's not since you can't get its perk you cannot improve it twice as much.)

:[Blade armour can be improved to legendary, if 1. The player has a high blacksmithing skill (such as 100). 2. The player is wearing enchanted clothing which give a bonus to blacksmithing (With a skill level of 100 in enchanting it is possible to make +25% bonus to blacksmithing items e.g. a set of gloves, a ring, a necklace and a main body clothing item. This is without an enchanting potion. With an enchanting potion I've hit +28% blacksmithing), and 3. the player uses a powerful potion which increases blacksmithing skill. With 'perks' spent in the heavy armour tree, blade armour can reach the 567 armour cap and thus give 80% damage reduction]."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 00:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:Another note. If anyone disagrees and thinks any of these should be on the main page, post about it. "The fastest way to train your Smithing skill is to make iron daggers, as they only need 1 iron bar and 1 leather strip to be made.If you're aiming to get to level 100 Smithing, you will need a lot of gold beforehand if you're going to buy the materials. Also, after exhausting a smith's supply of iron bars, iron ore, leather, and/or leather strips, you can wait for 2 days (48 hours) to restock the smith's supply of them. A cheap way of doing this is to craft hide and leather armors at the forge. These require only leather and leather strips, which can be obtained for free through hunting. The plains right outside Whiterun are rich in deer, wolves and in late game even an occasional saber cat. All these yield free leather with an added bonus of improving archery or other combat traits. Also leather armor fetches better prices than iron daggers, racking up gold and speech bonuses each time they are sold."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 22:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:I come bearing more notes. "By far the easiest way to increase smithing is to make lots and lots of iron daggers. By fast traveling continuously between three different holds, it is possible to endlessly purchase iron ore, iron ingots and animal hides. (Whiterun should be among these, as the smith and her husband have different shop inventories.)Once a massive amount of materials has been compiled, transform them into iron ingot and leather strips. Then make iron daggers. Even at level 90+ it only takes 10 or 11 daggers to gain a level. Overall, the materials required to get smithing from level 20 to 100 using this method cost less than ten thousand gold. This gold is easily attained using the method below."

:"An effective way to raise your Smithing skill is by making jewelry. This method is very good for aspiring smiths short on money, because you can raise your skill and make coin at the same time. A good way to take advantage of this is to head out to places containing a lot Gold or Silver Ore veins (e.g. [[Skyrim:Kolskeggr Mine|Kolskeggr Mine]] which yields 24 gold veins) and use the ore to make jewelry. If you learn the Transmute alteration spell (which can easily be attained from [[Skyrim:Halted Stream Camp|Halted Stream Camp]]) you can also find or buy iron ore, transmute it into silver and then gold ore, and then smelt it into gold ingots from which you can make jewelry." --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:39, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Notched pickaxe does not stack ==

the effect from the notched pickaxe does not seem to stack with other smithing bonuses, i have the silver blood family ring, and had already upgraded my armor and weapons with it, equiping the pickaxe and the ring did not give me the option to improve it any more, i then bought some gauntlets that let me improve items more, those and the silver blood ring let me upgrade my items, the gauntlets and the pick didnt, as the ring and the pick didnt either. Feedback?

Also on a unrelated note, ''some'' artifacts can be upgraded higher than flawless, without smithing bonuses with the perk bonus, for example, my ebony mail can be upgraded to legendary using the ebony smithing perk, using a ebony bar, so it is obviously counted as a ebony cuirass. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC))

== Is there a CAP to improving items? ==

I do not know if this is true, but for me seemes that one can only upgrade items up to double their base price (without perk) or up to triple their base price (with a perk), and this is achieved at about 200% smithing, further increase of smithing does not give anything. Am I right? [[Special:Contributions/195.19.39.175|195.19.39.175]] 08:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I read about a hardcap of approximately 800 armor, anything above is of no use. Do not know if this is true.

There is no cap to the values (damage reduction is capped at 80% but the displayed armor rating will continue to increase). You can test with the console. --[[User:Evil4Zerggin|Evil4Zerggin]] 00:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

: Yea, but could you, Evil4Zerggin, answer my initial question about "smithing" cap? (that first strings are mine even if from another IP) [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 08:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Why bother with perks? ==

Unless Bethesda severely alters the whole alchemy/enchanting/smithing triangle with a patch, it seems wasteful to drop any perk points in Smithing.

For one, every single item that has a creation perk is available through alternative means. Even Daedric armor and weaponry will show up in random loot at a high level.

Next, armor has a cap. Improving your armor beyond a certain point is useless.

That armor cap can be reached, theoretically, with any items. The perks are not needed, since you can just uber-fortify your Smithing skill and get to Legendary.

Fortifying weapon damage to obscene levels seems like it would just make the game less enjoyable, unless you're playing the hardest difficulty. (how much do ubersmithed weapons help on the hardest difficulty anyway?)

Since it seems like the perks only offer the benefit of early game access to high level armor, should the page make note that late game optimizing players might just want to skip the two arms of the perk tree?
[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.54|166.182.3.54]] 03:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:An interesting posit. Really, you're going to have to spend the perks somewhere. Assume a character that has max skill and no perks in either Heavy Armor or Smithing. With Daedric improved through the enchant/alchemy loop, you're only going to get to about 51% damage reduction. Adding four Fortify Heavy Armor enchants will only bump that up to about 61%. So the question is, "Which way would it be most efficient to spend your perks?" Assuming you'd prefer to save your enchants for something other than Fortify Heavy Armor, you can spend four perks in the Heavy Armor tree to get your armor rating to hit cap (either four ranks of Juggernaut or Juggernaut->Well Fitted->Tower of Strength->Matching Set). This has the nice side-effect of reducing the amount of stagger you take. Alternately, you could spend five perks in Smithing and take one rank of Juggernaut. This will also put you over the armor cap while letting you upgrade your weapons twice as well. Personally, I think Smithing is the better choice. Under the "only Heavy Armor perks" scenario, I doubt you could spend two more perks anywhere on the perk tree and be nearly as effective as you would have been if you'd had the upgraded weaponry of the Smithing perks. However, if you're really only after the armor (say, you're playing a Heavy Armor Destruction mage), then the Heavy Armor perks are a better value. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 04:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Heavy Armor does, however, benefit much more from its smithing perk path. What of Light Armor users?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.48|166.182.3.48]] 05:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::In my opinion, Light Armor users should still go down the right side of the path. The left side of the path is disappointing in terms of weaponry, and both sides lead to Dragon Armor, which is your goal if you're going with Light Armor. With Dragonscale, you'll hit about 47% damage reduction. Adding the four Light Armor enchants only gets you to around 56%. With four Light Armor perks (2 ranks of Agile Defender, Custom Fit, and Matching Set) and no enchants, you can hit the armor cap. Alternately, with six Smithing perks and two Light Armor perks (either 2 ranks of Agile Defender or Agile Defender + Custom Fit) you can hit the armor cap. Obviously with Light Armor, it's much harder to defend spending an extra four perks for your weapon upgrades. A middle ground is using the left side of Smithing, which only costs five Smithing perks (plus the two Light Armor perks) but nets you Glass weaponry to upgrade instead of Daedric.

::::I'd never run the numbers before for weaponry, but apparently the max damage isn't that different. For example, assuming a character with max skill but no weaponry perks and some enchant/alchemy loop improved weaponry with the Smithing perks, a Glass Bow will be dealing 64 damage while a Daedric Bow will be dealing 70 damage. I'm pretty sure the weapon perks won't change the relative difference; the Glass Bow will always be a little more than 8% damage behind the Daedric Bow. The Elven Bow isn't even that bad. Upgraded, it deals 62 damage. Is it less damage? Well, yeah. Is it an amount of damage you're going to care about? Probably not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::Is it worth considering the role of the Alteration spells in this? At least for the Heavy Armor Destruction mage mentioned above, considering how often you'll need cap in the first place, 40-80 points could reliably be shaved off. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.0.227|95.206.0.227]] 12:54, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::It looks like with Stoneskin or higher, you could get by with one less armor perk in each case. In one case with Light Armor, it doesn't quite get you to the cap, but you're all of three or four points off, so that should be close enough. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:So essentially, the gist I'm getting is that if a user specializes in an Armor skill with perks, a non-perked Smithing skill will be all that's necessary to hit the armor protection cap for either armor type. The question is, then, do the perks make a sufficient difference in weapon power over non-perked improvements? Does spending five perks on Daedric smithing allow a significant and worthwhile advantage over Daedric weapons that are improved without the perk?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.60|166.182.3.60]] 17:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::I do believe the point the original poster pointed out is that it is easily possible to hit the armor cap without spending perks in the SMITHING tree....he said nothing about the heavy/light armor trees. He has a point as far as the armor goes, i'd imagine with the 150% armor bonus you can get from the perks in the heavy/light armor trees, you could easily cap out, and it also seems to be even more appealing if you plan on using a unique weapon, of the type that can't be upgraded with a smithing perk (mace of molag bal for example). if you plan, however, on using daedric weapons, i fully suggest getting the smithing perks. Basically, after 100 smithing, weapons for which you have the perk upgrade 2.5 times faster. roughly one "level" of damage every 20 points as opposed to every 50 points. max armsman, ~100% fortify one-handed damage, a one-handed skill of 82, and a daedric sword smithed up to about 225 skill (with perk) and i'm doing about 210 damage per swing...i can kill dragons in 2-3 power attacks. [[User:Limduhl|Limduhl]] 19:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::The difference between weaponry that has been improved with a perk and weaponry that has not been improved with a perk is much greater than the difference between different tiers of weaponry. Continuing my previous example, a Daedric bow that has been improved without the perk will do a mere 48 damage. The Elven bow that has been improved with the perk does much better than that. So, if you're looking for heavy armor that hits the damage cap AND hard-hitting weaponry, you could spend one perk in Heavy Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Heavy Armor and two perks in Smithing (to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). Similarly with light armor, you could spend two perks in Light Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Light Armor and two perks in Smithing (once again, to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 19:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Would you consider this drastic difference game breaking? Three shotting a dragon seems like it would ruin the flow of play, and is likely to get nerfed by a patch. What about the hardest difficulty? What sort of difference do the perk improved weapons make then?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.237|166.182.3.237]] 19:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Understand that this answer is much more subjective. Personally, I think Smithing is game-breaking. 80% damage reduction is too good. Being able to kill most normal enemies in one or two hits is too good. Without armor improvement and Fortify enchantments, the best you can do with Daedric armor is 66% damage reduction, and a bit more if you use a shield. Without weapon improvement and Fortify enchantments, the most damage you're going to be dealing with a Daedric bow in normal combat is 53 damage (or 80 damage if you get a critical hit). Both of those are assuming you gain max skill and take your perks in Heavy Armor and Archery. If you take a look at my previous examples, you can see the comparison. Smithing saves you a few defensive perks while also buffing your weaponry significantly (the same player with a Smithing-perk improved Daedric bow is dealing 140 damage, or 210 on a critical hit). Now, I haven't played on Master difficulty, so I don't know if that sort of damage reduction or damage output is really necessary. On Expert, it's not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 21:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::I thought as much. It would be worth testing the hard mode effects, if someone who owns the game would be willing, but making a note on the main page of the exploit's ability to significantly alter gameplay might be wise. Likewise, an edit might also mention that, unless patched, the exploit could gain similar benefits to a non-exploit + perk combination, which could save more "moderate" players a few perk points in their build.[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.209|166.182.3.209]] 00:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::I would be interested in that. There are many interesting perks to spend the few extra points on. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.15.252|95.206.15.252]] 17:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
{{Outdent|:::::}}
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." You can't call Smithing an exploit. It's an intended part of the game. It may not be well balanced, but it's not an exploit.

I think a part of the problem is that there is no way to level up Smithing organically. For example, I can level up Alteration by standing around casting Detect Life in the middle of a crowded city, but that's fairly boring. I can also let Alteration level up a bit at a time by casting Stoneskin while I'm in fights, which is obviously more exciting and fun. With Smithing, the only way to level it up is to grind out some items. If I'm going to be grinding and my skill has no chance of improving without future grinding, then I might as well go ahead and get as much of it out of the way as I can. This can lead to quickly getting 100 Smithing. Alchemy suffers from the same problem. Enchanting would as well except you can enchant up a Soul Trap weapon and head out into the field with Azura's Star for a more organic approach to leveling up. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 18:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

This has drifted quite a long way off the original topic, but the short answer is "yes": there is absolutely no NEED to take any smithing perks at all, ever. It won't in any way impact the quality of your gear at any level, including endgame. There are BENEFITS to taking them though: they can give you access to "above level" gear, making you significantly stronger during the first 2/3 or so of the game. Arcane Blacksmith is an arguable exception though, since it provides a very significant benefit during those early levels, and at a cost of only 2 perks is certainly worth taking unless your build is cripplingly starved. It will also allow you to improve Uniques, which is often highly desirable. [[User:Aliana|Aliana]] 10:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Clarification on the Item_Quality section? ==

At level 48, with Smithing Skill of 100, Fortify Smithing of 12% (Forgemaster's Fingers), and Ebony Armor perk, I can improve an Ebony Bow from 56 to 95 (Legendary). The [[Skyrim:Smithing#Item_Quality]] section seems (seems) to insist that this Ebony Bow should go from 56 to 66 (+10), with my qualifications. Is there some sort of general caveat or other info missing from this section? Such as how the [[Skyrim:Armor|Armor]] section says "everything only applies to base armor ratings"? Thanks if you can help -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 05:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

: Actually that table says that "at smithing 91 with perk you'll be able to improve your bow to Legendary with +10 damage", what happens with more smithing is not in the table.[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 13:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Incremental upgrade progress - clarification needed ==

maybe it is me being dumb, but is the following true - when player's effective smithing is in range for quality X upgraded item gets quality X with +Y corresponding to X, no matter how close effective smithing is to higher border of the interval corresponding to quality X...
Thus, if you have 100 smithing and a perk, you upgrade to Legendary #1 (+10), if you add, say, 9% more smithing, you still get legendary #1 (+10), but if you add, say 20%, you get Legendary #2 with bigger bonus (+11 ?)
/Sergio/ [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 18:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Enhance smithing 100% = perk ==

I have just been messing around a bit with console commands and enchanting and smithing. i have discovered something interesting after i created myself gloves of 100% to smithing. at 100% i can improve items to legendary at exactly level 91 of smithing. one point less and it is epic. (taken no perks at all in smithing, obviously)

== Left side vs. Right side for a light armor character ==

Right side is of course better(Daedric weapons and best light armor) but it also requires one perk more. Daedric weapons do only 2 points of damage more than Glass weapons; with Legendary upgrade, the difference is minor. Since lowest-damage weapons have biggest % difference, let's take dagger as an example. Glass dagger does 9 damage, Daedric - 11. That's 19% damage difference. But when upgraded to Legendary, the damage becomes 19 and 21; the difference becomes slightly less than 10%. Overupgrading with even better Legendary levels will decrease the gap further. So left side is still worth considering for characters low on available perk points. [[Special:Contributions/178.183.231.186|178.183.231.186]] 07:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Smithing

2011-12-06T20:11:29Z

84.63.187.133: /* Certain weapons can't be improved */ grr, sorry. edited own post.

== Create page ==
I saw that Elliot said we could create pages, but it still says that I'm not allowed. If it is only for Administraters or patrollers etc. I'm sorry. But if someone wants to create a pickpocketing page, I have a list of all the perks for it on my User page. Thanks. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:45, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

:It's on a blacklist at the moment. Elliot is on about removing it so it's just that anons can't create and edit (i think) and think under 'Skyrim'. It is only Admins at the moment though. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 20:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

::Thanks:), I have the perk tree for pickpocketing too so if anybody needs it it can be copied and pasted from me. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:09, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Verifying the 'Custom items' statement ==

On the page, it claims that hides can be used to customize your items, and I'd like to know an official source for this before I start telling people about it. UESP is usually very professional, but seeing as how there is very little information about the game so far, and the source for this info isn't cited on the page, I'd like to know where the person who added it got this information from. {{unsigned|76.20.221.160|9 October 2011}}

:First, as the banner at the top of the article says, all information is preliminary and subject to change. The only way to be completely certain about any game facts is to wait until the game is released.
:The statement about using hides is a summary of several statements I've seen about how Smithing works. For example, [http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/preview-3152.html a Videogamer preview] says:
::"''Kill a wolf, for example, and you can skin him for his hide, which you can then take to a tannery and turn into leather to use as material to design leather-hilted axes and daggers.''"
:If you prefer hard-copy sources, the PC Gamer Skyrim article says, in reference to "an animal hide" found at a crafting station:
::"''... here you'd take leather and make leather strips... you'd then use leather strips to make your own swords and stuff like that.''"
:It also says:
::"''You could get other items from the tanning rack and combine them all to create weapons and armor''."
:--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sword Sharpening ==

I understand weapons and armor do not degrade, but if you can sharpen your blades does that mean they become dull after a while of fighting, or does it just increase the damage one time depending on your skill level. Thanks.[[User:Apod|Apod]] 18:44, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, they just stay at that level until you improve them further. Then when you're smithing skill improves, you can improve your weapons even more and they will never degrade below that new level and so on until your weapon is at the highest improved level possible.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
::In that case would the swords spawn with a set dullness/sharpness or start at a zero percent until your character brings it to the grind stone. [[User:Apod|Apod]] 21:04, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Let's say you find a steel longsword that does 10 damage, it will be at 100% health and it will never degrade any further. Then you can sharpen it to 110% and now it will never degrade below 110% health and it will do more damage. Then you can sharpen it to 120%(if you are skilled enough) and then 130% and so on. Once you sharpen it, it will never degrade below it's new level so basically you permanently increase it's damage and health. I don't know if you can find weapons that have already been sharpened though.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 12:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::: Ah, yeah I understand now, it's similar to being an expert armorer in oblivion when you could raise the condition past 100%. Thank you for your help. One more week... [[User:Apod|Apod]] 20:44, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Except they've taken weapon condition out of the game entirely. Weapons and armor simply no longer have "condition". They have quality levels now instead. Item durability/health is not a part of this game. [[Special:Contributions/24.237.190.24|24.237.190.24]] 18:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Maces sharpenning? ==

I'm wondering, can we also upgrade maces and warhammers at a grindstone? It wouldn't really make sense but on the other hand it would mean that we can't upgrade these weapons. Or do we have to do it at a workbench?{{unsigned|77.84.51.169|18:36, 5 November 2011}}
:You can sharpen any weapon. Maces usually kill by causing a large impact to organs or other important areas such as blood vessels with effects such as internal bleeding but by sharpening it the mace might cause puncture wounds resulting in blood loss. Workbenches are for improving armour.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

:“Sharpening” a mace might be improving the flanges (i.e. the bit on the side that help to focuses the impact) or improving the weighting (again increasing how much damage it courses) rather than literally sharpening it.

:You can sharpen bows as well. :) --[[Special:Contributions/86.9.123.15|86.9.123.15]] 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

== There is only one rank of every perk. ==

None of them have two ranks. Not a single one. Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back? Look at the images from all of the prerelease gameplay floating around. 1 rank of each Smithing perk. Whoever is keeping this charade of two ranks a piece is perpetuating a falsehood with malice aforethought. Stop it! [[Special:Contributions/97.103.109.193|97.103.109.193]] 02:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
:The only reliable sources that I've seen show two ranks for each perk. Although it's very possible that it's been changed since the beta version of the game, we'll have to wait for the game is actually released to confirm that. Any other information that you're seeing right now is from a pirated version of the game, which is not a reliable source. I'd rather perpetuate beta-version information than perpetuate illegal information.
:Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back?". The [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Smithing&action=history edit history] of the page does not show any edit, ever, where the number of ranks was changed for any of the perks. Furthermore, none of the edits that you've made to any of the skill pages has been undone. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::1 as in O-N-E rank for all the smithing perks. {{uns|91.113.8.202|12:35, 6 November 2011}}
:::There are two ranks for them as for as official sources have shown. We are sticking with official sources for now. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 12:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::::It's one rank per perk according to all people that have had a "hands-on" game. If the official information says otherwise, then it is just bogus. The version that has been made available illegally is also the retail version, not a beta. {{uns|Loufoque|13:17, 6 November 2011}}
:::::My neighbor is a reviewer and has an official copy of the game for the Xbox. One rank per perk. [[Special:Contributions/174.109.111.197|174.109.111.197]] 18:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}Well, we'll update it as soon as he posts a review with this information in it. Or, better yet, when the game is released this Friday. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 18:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Skyrim broke street date in Australia yesterday (final release). I confirm there is only one rank per smithing perk. Updated accordingly. Back to gaming... --[[User:Alienangel|Alienangel]] 11 November 2011
::"Illegal information." oO --[[Special:Contributions/188.109.121.159|188.109.121.159]] 22:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Power Leveling Section ==

"Power leveling Theory

Continually switch forges, buy out all iron ignots and leather strips, then produce as many iron daggers as possible and sell the daggers back to the forge master. Keep doing this at every forge possible and you will easily level up smithing. For those with less money, you may mine your own iron ore, but it is less effective, as it slows time.

Hunt animals for hides, process these into leather and leather strips at a tanning rack, then use the forge to craft leather bracers. Enchant bracers to level enchanting at the same time. Sell to level speech and make some gold."

Is this section really necessary? I mean, it's pretty obvious that you would level your smithing faster by getting items and crafting them into things. The only thing it really tells me is that Iron Daggers and Leather Bracers are some of the best possible options. But I don't see a Power Leveling section on Enchanting or Alchemy, let alone on any pages in Oblivion for those skills.

If anything I'd expect a page like this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Increasing_Skills to be started on instead of putting the leveling tips on each page as it makes it easier to find and leaves the skill pages for explaining the hard facts about the skills instead of suggestions and such [[Special:Contributions/76.115.250.108|76.115.250.108]] 12:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not even that good of a method of power leveling your smithing. If you are willing to use a bit of alteration magic, get yourself transmute. Then upgrade all your iron ore into gold ore, and from there smelt that down to gold ingots that you then use in the forge to create gold rings. This way not only will you be working on your smithing, but your alteration too. You'll also net a profit in the end. Of course this method is a bit mana intensive, meaning that if you haven't upped your magic reserves at all, you'll only be able to cast transmute once before needing to let your pool recharge. Sort of annoying if you consider that you have to cast the smell 4 times to get enough gold ore for a single ingot. [[User:Syntic|Syntic]] 13:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

:I agree, so I removed it and added a section to the "Notes" about this method, because it is the fastest. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 01:47, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

== Rings vs Necklaces? ==

It says in the notes section that one ingot is used for necklaces and rings, but it doesn't say that you get two rings with one ingot. I just started the game so have only been able to make silver jewelry, but the value of the two rings added together is the same as the value of the necklace, so is this statement even true, let alone necessary? If someone who knows what they are doing could remove that statement, or edit it to reflect the truth, I'm afraid I don't know how... [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:That note needs to be removed, the one ingot for two rings is the same as the necklace. As well as the fact two rings is twice the objects you can enchant ;) [[Special:Contributions/75.150.195.86|75.150.195.86]] 15:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not sure why neither of you removed it if you felt it should be removed, but I went ahead and got rid of it. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 17:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks Baron, when I tried to do it yesterday I couldn't get the edit screen to show me any text I could edit, when I looked again just now, it was all there. weird. [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Any qualities beyond Legendary? ==

Have smithing maxed at 100 (like a BAWS)

Can smithing improvement gloves/etc. be used to create anything better than legendary?

:Legendary is the highest quality. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 12:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

you can continue to improve the att/def of items with plus smithing enchants and potions after 100.
Works on Armor Hand Neck and Ring. Active effects list ring x3 instead of each piece of gear. i only had one potion of 20% so dont know if more can be added or stronger potion. Glass Armor with +100% went to 90 Def. legomike
:My alchemy skill and perks have me making 71% potions. And there are stock potions for 50%+ in the game. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
::Smithing upgrades seem to have a cap somewhere around 230 skill, can anyone confirm exactly where? Or perhaps the values do not scale linearly? -[[Special:Contributions/91.153.22.204|91.153.22.204]] 18:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Effects for improving weapons? ==

I see someone added columns to the chart showing the amount of bonus given to torso armor and the other pieces. Does anyone have any data on the amount of bonus given to weapons? Is it different for daggers, maces, warhammers, bows, etc? --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

i just got my daedric curiass to 348, idk if theres a cap or not but i havent hit it yet. im currently looking for some good smithing enhancment items (shouldve done enchanting :/ ) 10:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== daedra hearts ==

Anyone find a somewhat steady supply for daedra hearts to craft daedric items?
other than ingrediant merchants that is. If there is some way to get them possibly put it in the notes section
JJ Lopez

:The Azura's Star quest line gives you 3-5 Daedra Hearts, as well as the ingredient vendors as you mentioned. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Enthir at the college of Winterhold sells two Daedra heart at a time and restocks about every two days. You can find him either in the courtyard of the college or in his room in the Hall of Attainment second level. - Simnos.
::Also at the College of Winterhold you can use the Atronach Forge down the midden to create them; if I remember what I read correctly it requires a black soul gem and a human heart. Of course, neither of those is exactly common so I don't know if it's worth doing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

:I found daedra heart constantly respawning at Kodlak's room in Jorvaskr, after i completed companions quest line. - Riot

Just found that the Dremora at the shine to mehrunes dagon respawn. good way of making money and a steady supply of deadra hearts for armour weapons. --[[User:J.J.-Lopez|J.J.-Lopez]] 01:03, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Which branch to take ==

Should the note about going up the right side be edited? Yes the right side has stronger armor, however it is all heavy armor. For a light armor type person like myself, the left tree was a much better choice. Just a thought.

:There's no reason to use Light Armor over Heavy Armor. Once you get the Weightless perk for Heavy Armor it is better in every way than Light Armor, unfortunately. Also, as the note says, going up the right side gives you access to Daedric weapons, which at their base are better than Glass weapons. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 07:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::I disagree with this statement, Baron. If you're a sneaky type (at least a GOOD sneaky type), you won't get hit enough to ever level your heavy armor skill to the necessary 70 to get the Weightless perk. Until then it'll make more noise than light and seriously impact your carrying capacity due to the increased weight. For a combat character I'd agree, heavy > light armor. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::The Wind Walker perk is also quite usefull --Lex 23:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC+1)
:Isn't it also untrue that the right side is all Heavy Armor? The strongest Light Armor smithing is Dragon Smithing. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 08:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::Dragon Smithing is both heavy armor and light armor. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:34, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
:::My personal belief is that the answer to the question "what is your character using?" is also the answer to which path to take, if you're only going to take one. However, I will say that the left path produces substandard weaponry in the long run. Glass weapons are good, but they just don't compare to ebony or daedric. I went the right path but also took elven smithing because elven weapons are slightly better than dwarven and quite a bit better than orcish.--[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

My major qualm with the statement is that this path requires you to spend a lot of skill perks in HA (or armour at all) to make it absolutely superior (which it then will become, agreed). But if you have a few other points of interest, you may run out of perk points to do so (you need one extra for smithing plus some more for getting heavy armour to work as described). As a level 41 sneaky arch(ery)mage I have yet to have extra perk points for armour at all - and you would need 3 armour (plus 1 smithing) perk you'll miss somewhere else. You'll get better self constructed weaponry, but that's it, the other perks may be completely wasted (Boosting unarmed attack? Halving damage from falling? Both not really convincing, are they?). So while this may generally be a true statement for smithing inclined characters, it is far from the absolute truth. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.179.72|93.232.179.72]] 05:39, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:No it doesn't; at most, you 'waste' one perk. Let's say you're more interested in light armor. You're still better served going down the heavy armor branch. You get the better weaponry and the same top-level light armor. "But what ever will I do until I get to Dragon Armor?" you ask. The same thing anyone that isn't Smithing does - find it or buy it. In addition, you'll have something to do with all those Dwarven Metal Ingots you'll have laying around: make something for profit and to level your Smithing. So the trade-off is one perk to complete the right side for superior weaponry. Considering that you generally survive by killing your foes, superior weaponry seems worth it. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Question: are you able to learn Daedric smithing from the dragon armour? IE, go up the light path to dragon armour, then down one of the heavy paths to get Daedric? Because, if this is the case, then what path you go down doesn't matter, as to get both Daedric and Dragon requires 6 perks (including steel). I'm a little disappointed that the light path has two armour only perks that have no weapons but heavy armour, and the heavy armour tree gets only heavy armour and the best weapons, seems a little uneven.--[[User:Kratch|Kratch]] 17:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, you cannot circle around after Dragon Armor. I agree that the Light Armor path is disappointing. Advanced Armor is probably the most useless perk ever. "Hey, over here in the Light Armor smithing side, you can learn to smith a Heavy Armor!" --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 17:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

You're right about that (only one perk even if you're going for LA). I should point out, though, that one of the reasonings for HA is that it is strictly superior with the right perks, which is correct, but that way wastes perks to reach this state. I was probably mixing up those two aspects. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.183.243|93.232.183.243]] 21:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Fortify Smithing ==

Does this effect increase the statistics of an item when you make it or does it just increase the improvements made at the grindstone and workbench? [[User:Olioster|Olioster]] 15:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I think it increases your effective skill. Another site has a chart for the improvements that goes well beyond 100 smithing skill, and shows higher improvements at higher skill levels. I have no idea how far it goes. However, I will say this much: when my first character reached 100 smithing, I made and improved an Ebony Mace for myself, since the damage for the ebony was the same as the daedric. I had a necklace that added 12% to smithing, but didn't use it then. Later, when I was making a Daedric War Axe, I had disenchanted that necklace, enchanted another as well as two pieces of leather armor to 8% each, and used all of those plus a smithing potion for the improvement. When I did, I discovered that I could improve the ebony mace yet again, to higher than it was before. There is definitely some category higher than 100 smithing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::Yes, even if the item is Legendary quality, it can still be improved upon, and there does not appear to be a cap on how far the improvement can go, so potions and enchantments that fortify smithing, perks and smithing skill can combine to make weapons and armor that have exorbitant stats. In theory, a character that perks heavily into crafting can make some of the highest rated weapons and armor possible, through fortified enchantments, fortified potions and max smithing perks and skill. There's also a cross-crafting exploit with enchanting and alchemy that could potentially push the smithing improvements beyond game breaking limits. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

To directly answer your question, it only affects improvements made at the grindstone/workbench. Items stats can also be increased with fortify smithing enchants/potions, though the name will remain legendary.

== Materials ==

It might be useful to provide a list of what crafting items correspond to which item types
i.e.
Leather to Hide Armour
Iron Ingot to Iron Armour
Steel Ingot to Steel Armour
Refined Malachite for Glass...
etc.
:I completely agree with you, However, your use of "i.e." was incorrect. I.E. means "id est" which is Latin for "that is" meaning you are stating something very specific. I think you meant to use "E.G." which means exempli gratia which, in English, translates into "for the sake of example" meaning you are listing off a few examples, no more. While that has nothing to do with your question in any way, it still drove me insane. I do, of course agree with your suggestion, though. And it might also be useful to give examples of steady sources of these things. I can't find ebony anywhere, and it's driving me nuts! I need ebony!--[[User:M45T3R594RT4N|M45T3R594RT4N]] 06:41, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

== Steel Smithing ==

I recently aquired the steel smithing perk and am unable to smith steel...does anyone else have this problem? How do I fix this? I have reached level 30 smithing.

[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)confused smith[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:At a guess, you either didn't confirm the selection of the perk (in which case you don't actually have it yet, I did that once, open your skills and see if you have any unspent perks) or you are lacking one or more materials to make it. If you have the perk, there should be a category at the forge interface named Steel. If you're lacking materials then the choices will be greyed out. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 16:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Legendary pt. 2/3/4/5/etc ==

Apparently (according to other wiki's and my personal experience), there are more than one tiers of Legendary. I have 100 smithing and the correct perks, and I was able to upgrade my legendary daedric sword to legendary (but two damage points higher) by wearing 20% boost smithing gauntlets... Somebody with the construction kit look into this. [[User:Stouf761|Stouf761]] 14:04, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not out just yet, but yes there are tier(s) above basic Legendary. I've got two 12% smithing items and two 10% smithing items, which allow some nice improvement. Tossing a 40-50% potion on top of those allows still more improvement. I'm just not sure if the data table on the other wiki is correct. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
::That's true, look up some crazy smithing and enchanting videos - you can boost a Daedric dagger to 100 dmg or more. The limit is very high and you can boost smithing via potions and enchanting armor. --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 20:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I'd don't believe it would be possible to boost a dagger's damage to 100. I've got 100 smithing and about 60% fortify smithing items, plus a 30% potion, and I could only get a glass SWORD to 40 damage.
::::I can get a glass sword to 80 without any kind of +smithing enchants. But you can get a weapons damage to anything you want by taking advantage of the bugged potion system. Just depends on how much time you want to put into it. Apparently the most damage you can get out of a deadric swords without the time spent vs. damage increase being ridiculously low is 1200 dmg per hit. There is an article on it on the official bethesda forums anyway... [[Special:Contributions/213.81.109.62|213.81.109.62]] 01:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::A note to everyone discussing exact numbers on weapons: Those numbers are modified by your skill and/or any relevant enchantments you may have. It's pretty easy to get a dagger over 100 damage... if you have 100 skill, lots of perks, and two or three items with a 40% or more bonus each. --[[Special:Contributions/129.49.21.175|129.49.21.175]] 03:14, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
: I've been wondering this since I have a ring for +17% smithing but when I wear it or don't wear it, there is no difference in the stats of "legendary" items I can craft. That is to say, the same armour crafted with or without the ring gets the same stats so long as I can reach the grade of legendary, however a lot of things I have read do seem to indicate tiers of legendary. I'm going to test this some more tonight, as mentioned above, it's hard to know if people just have maxed enchants and skills to boost their weapon stats.

== SIDES IN SMITHING ==

i was wondering, your choice is smithing (right-left), is permanent..?i mean if u choose heavy than u cant smith light and the opposite???
:If you start taking heavy armor smithing perks, they wont stop you from gaining light armor smithing perks later {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 19:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::You can get both...did it myself. It's not very wise to waste the perk points though, so I'd just pick one and stick with it. No respending perk points, so only if you're playing the PC version can you remove/add perks through the console.

== Random armor/weapon loot ==

Just curiosity on my part here: has anyone randomly found any pieces of daedric armor or weaponry aside from arrows? If so, how much and what level were you? My orc is level 44, and I haven't seen a single piece of daedric yet as random loot. I've found a few pieces of ebony armor and weapons in dungeons, and even once ran across a hostile NPC on a road (just called Breton) who was wearing ebony armor/boots/gauntlets, but no daedric thus far aside from what I made myself. Smithing has been well worth the investment to me just for this reason. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 22:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I am hoping that you can find daedric weapons ingame at least. I didn't want to waste points going down to daedric just for weapons.

My character is level 57, and daedric weapons, armor and arrows are starting to show up regularly now.[[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Each type ==

Should we here add list of all thing that can be made in smith and what we need for it? From Iron to Dragon?
--[[User:Aleksa|Aleksa]] 21:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:It would be nice to have a crafting page that lists the materials required, their base value, and the final item's base value. But don't do it unless you can make it look good, in a table.
::Perhaps try checking the already-existing pages at [[Skyrim:Forge|Forge]], [[Skyrim:Grindstone|Grindstone]], and [[Skyrim:Workbench|Workbench]]? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 07:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Certain weapons can't be improved ==

I know at least three weapons that can't be improved via smithing: Shield of Solitude, Skyforge Steel Dagger and Supple Ancient Nord Bow, I think the article should mention that as a bug. Also, does anyone know if there is a console command to "unlock" these items into making them improveable? :)

I have found Nightingale Blade and Bow can not be improved either. And also Wooden Mask (From Labiryntian) and Diadem of the Savant (although it may be a bug that diadem is classed as light armor instead of clothing) 08:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

: I'm currently using a "Nightingale Bow (Legendary)". IIRC, both the Bow and the Blade can be improved with Ebony Ingots (if you have the [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane Blacksmith]] perk). --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Smithing Master Quest ==

I know there are some other master quests that open up when you reach 100 skill, like the one that gives you a new spell in destruction. Is there one for smithing, that gives you say, a new craftable item?

: I don't know of such but if there is my bet is that it's either given at the Skyforge (may have to complete Companions quest line first) or at forge in Riften (That special one that the smith asks you to get firesalts to "feed" to it). --[[Special:Contributions/213.178.104.81|213.178.104.81]] 22:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

::It's not from the smithie at Riften... I have 100 Smith skill and gave him the 10 fire salts. No new quest. -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 04:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
i was wondering the same thing...i have a legendary dragon armor and i went to improve it and it said to me that u dont have the required skill...is there more improveness in weapons and armors???what is the reward for the fire salts quest?i'm about to start wondering all skyrim in every shop...if there is no special reward for that just money or armor no need for all that trouble..!

== Improving weapons even more ==

I had smithing/enchanting/alchemy maxed out, made the 130 percent better smithing potion, and the 4 apparel pieces of 49 percent better smithing. I thought that this way, I could sharpen stuff to the max. (Without mask glitching.)
I recently went to improve some new armor pieces, when I noticed that I could improve my previous pieces even further! All of them! I don't know the reason for that, since skills and gear were already maxed. Did anyone else notice this? Does anyone know the reason? [[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Smithing for Money:

What is the best way to forge items for profit?
For example, how high does speech need to be to balance out the ratio of buying raw materials and selling back a finished product (e.g. dwarf armor?).

[[Special:Contributions/71.90.234.87|71.90.234.87]] 06:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC) Hairmetalml

== Smithing Silver ==

There doesn't seem to be a smithing perk for it, and it doesn't come up as an option when at forges, and I can't improve silver weapons at grindstones. I have loads of silver ingots, but I can't use them. Is it actually possible to smith with silver?

:you can make jewrelly with silver, thats it. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 13:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC))

== Bugged Fortify Smithing ==

Wearing multiple smith-increasing items with the same effect (e.g. necklace +20% + bracers +20%) seems to bug out and only applies one of them (seemingly random which ones). Under Active Effects, two fortifications are shown but they are both from exactly the same item. Anyone else having this problem?

Sometimes an item's fortifications even shows as being active when I'm not even wearing the item!

[[Special:Contributions/82.23.158.97|82.23.158.97]] 23:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am having the same bug (I'm on the Xbox by the way), both with custom-created Fortify Smithing and Alchemy items that provide the same magnitude of effect. When I wear the gear, multiple instances of the same item are listed under Active Effects, or sometimes even the name of an unequipped item of identical magnitude appears instead when I equip just one item. Also my custom-made Fortify Smithing potion won't appear under Active Effects if I'm wearing my Smithing gear. If I unequip the gear, it appears.

I haven't crunched the numbers to see if the full buff is being applied to created items. However I did try removing my gear (I was wearing four Fortify Smithing items) one by one when I was improving some armor, and I had to be wearing all four for the option to improve the armor to appear (white highlighted text) in the Smithing menu, even though Active effects claimed I was wearing three Gauntlets. So it seems there is some effect being applied even when the names in the Active Effects menu are screwed up.

== Cleaning Up the "Notes" section. ==

As you all might have noticed the Notes section is getting rather big, and is quickly becoming an unorganized mess. Rather than taking away valuable information we might do well to create new pages or sections concerning among other things: Help leveling up and items that fortify smithing... Tell me what you think [[User:Thelastoneusaw|Thelastoneusaw]] 16:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:In helping to resolve this problem a bit, here's a chunk out of the notes that should have been a discussion on the talk page: "Some items have a limited evolution cap, meaning you can't refine them over a certain level. For example, the Blades armor won't go above "Exquisite" regardless of your skill. Whether it's a bug or not is unknown. (It's not since you can't get its perk you cannot improve it twice as much.)

:[Blade armour can be improved to legendary, if 1. The player has a high blacksmithing skill (such as 100). 2. The player is wearing enchanted clothing which give a bonus to blacksmithing (With a skill level of 100 in enchanting it is possible to make +25% bonus to blacksmithing items e.g. a set of gloves, a ring, a necklace and a main body clothing item. This is without an enchanting potion. With an enchanting potion I've hit +28% blacksmithing), and 3. the player uses a powerful potion which increases blacksmithing skill. With 'perks' spent in the heavy armour tree, blade armour can reach the 567 armour cap and thus give 80% damage reduction]."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 00:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:Another note. If anyone disagrees and thinks any of these should be on the main page, post about it. "The fastest way to train your Smithing skill is to make iron daggers, as they only need 1 iron bar and 1 leather strip to be made.If you're aiming to get to level 100 Smithing, you will need a lot of gold beforehand if you're going to buy the materials. Also, after exhausting a smith's supply of iron bars, iron ore, leather, and/or leather strips, you can wait for 2 days (48 hours) to restock the smith's supply of them. A cheap way of doing this is to craft hide and leather armors at the forge. These require only leather and leather strips, which can be obtained for free through hunting. The plains right outside Whiterun are rich in deer, wolves and in late game even an occasional saber cat. All these yield free leather with an added bonus of improving archery or other combat traits. Also leather armor fetches better prices than iron daggers, racking up gold and speech bonuses each time they are sold."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 22:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:I come bearing more notes. "By far the easiest way to increase smithing is to make lots and lots of iron daggers. By fast traveling continuously between three different holds, it is possible to endlessly purchase iron ore, iron ingots and animal hides. (Whiterun should be among these, as the smith and her husband have different shop inventories.)Once a massive amount of materials has been compiled, transform them into iron ingot and leather strips. Then make iron daggers. Even at level 90+ it only takes 10 or 11 daggers to gain a level. Overall, the materials required to get smithing from level 20 to 100 using this method cost less than ten thousand gold. This gold is easily attained using the method below."

:"An effective way to raise your Smithing skill is by making jewelry. This method is very good for aspiring smiths short on money, because you can raise your skill and make coin at the same time. A good way to take advantage of this is to head out to places containing a lot Gold or Silver Ore veins (e.g. [[Skyrim:Kolskeggr Mine|Kolskeggr Mine]] which yields 24 gold veins) and use the ore to make jewelry. If you learn the Transmute alteration spell (which can easily be attained from [[Skyrim:Halted Stream Camp|Halted Stream Camp]]) you can also find or buy iron ore, transmute it into silver and then gold ore, and then smelt it into gold ingots from which you can make jewelry." --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:39, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Notched pickaxe does not stack ==

the effect from the notched pickaxe does not seem to stack with other smithing bonuses, i have the silver blood family ring, and had already upgraded my armor and weapons with it, equiping the pickaxe and the ring did not give me the option to improve it any more, i then bought some gauntlets that let me improve items more, those and the silver blood ring let me upgrade my items, the gauntlets and the pick didnt, as the ring and the pick didnt either. Feedback?

Also on a unrelated note, ''some'' artifacts can be upgraded higher than flawless, without smithing bonuses with the perk bonus, for example, my ebony mail can be upgraded to legendary using the ebony smithing perk, using a ebony bar, so it is obviously counted as a ebony cuirass. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC))

== Is there a CAP to improving items? ==

I do not know if this is true, but for me seemes that one can only upgrade items up to double their base price (without perk) or up to triple their base price (with a perk), and this is achieved at about 200% smithing, further increase of smithing does not give anything. Am I right? [[Special:Contributions/195.19.39.175|195.19.39.175]] 08:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I read about a hardcap of approximately 800 armor, anything above is of no use. Do not know if this is true.

There is no cap to the values (damage reduction is capped at 80% but the displayed armor rating will continue to increase). You can test with the console. --[[User:Evil4Zerggin|Evil4Zerggin]] 00:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Yea, but could you, Evil4Zerggin, answer my initial question about "smithing" cap?
(that first strings are mine even if from another IP)
[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 08:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Why bother with perks? ==

Unless Bethesda severely alters the whole alchemy/enchanting/smithing triangle with a patch, it seems wasteful to drop any perk points in Smithing.

For one, every single item that has a creation perk is available through alternative means. Even Daedric armor and weaponry will show up in random loot at a high level.

Next, armor has a cap. Improving your armor beyond a certain point is useless.

That armor cap can be reached, theoretically, with any items. The perks are not needed, since you can just uber-fortify your Smithing skill and get to Legendary.

Fortifying weapon damage to obscene levels seems like it would just make the game less enjoyable, unless you're playing the hardest difficulty. (how much do ubersmithed weapons help on the hardest difficulty anyway?)

Since it seems like the perks only offer the benefit of early game access to high level armor, should the page make note that late game optimizing players might just want to skip the two arms of the perk tree?
[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.54|166.182.3.54]] 03:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:An interesting posit. Really, you're going to have to spend the perks somewhere. Assume a character that has max skill and no perks in either Heavy Armor or Smithing. With Daedric improved through the enchant/alchemy loop, you're only going to get to about 51% damage reduction. Adding four Fortify Heavy Armor enchants will only bump that up to about 61%. So the question is, "Which way would it be most efficient to spend your perks?" Assuming you'd prefer to save your enchants for something other than Fortify Heavy Armor, you can spend four perks in the Heavy Armor tree to get your armor rating to hit cap (either four ranks of Juggernaut or Juggernaut->Well Fitted->Tower of Strength->Matching Set). This has the nice side-effect of reducing the amount of stagger you take. Alternately, you could spend five perks in Smithing and take one rank of Juggernaut. This will also put you over the armor cap while letting you upgrade your weapons twice as well. Personally, I think Smithing is the better choice. Under the "only Heavy Armor perks" scenario, I doubt you could spend two more perks anywhere on the perk tree and be nearly as effective as you would have been if you'd had the upgraded weaponry of the Smithing perks. However, if you're really only after the armor (say, you're playing a Heavy Armor Destruction mage), then the Heavy Armor perks are a better value. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 04:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Heavy Armor does, however, benefit much more from its smithing perk path. What of Light Armor users?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.48|166.182.3.48]] 05:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::In my opinion, Light Armor users should still go down the right side of the path. The left side of the path is disappointing in terms of weaponry, and both sides lead to Dragon Armor, which is your goal if you're going with Light Armor. With Dragonscale, you'll hit about 47% damage reduction. Adding the four Light Armor enchants only gets you to around 56%. With four Light Armor perks (2 ranks of Agile Defender, Custom Fit, and Matching Set) and no enchants, you can hit the armor cap. Alternately, with six Smithing perks and two Light Armor perks (either 2 ranks of Agile Defender or Agile Defender + Custom Fit) you can hit the armor cap. Obviously with Light Armor, it's much harder to defend spending an extra four perks for your weapon upgrades. A middle ground is using the left side of Smithing, which only costs five Smithing perks (plus the two Light Armor perks) but nets you Glass weaponry to upgrade instead of Daedric.

::::I'd never run the numbers before for weaponry, but apparently the max damage isn't that different. For example, assuming a character with max skill but no weaponry perks and some enchant/alchemy loop improved weaponry with the Smithing perks, a Glass Bow will be dealing 64 damage while a Daedric Bow will be dealing 70 damage. I'm pretty sure the weapon perks won't change the relative difference; the Glass Bow will always be a little more than 8% damage behind the Daedric Bow. The Elven Bow isn't even that bad. Upgraded, it deals 62 damage. Is it less damage? Well, yeah. Is it an amount of damage you're going to care about? Probably not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::Is it worth considering the role of the Alteration spells in this? At least for the Heavy Armor Destruction mage mentioned above, considering how often you'll need cap in the first place, 40-80 points could reliably be shaved off. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.0.227|95.206.0.227]] 12:54, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::It looks like with Stoneskin or higher, you could get by with one less armor perk in each case. In one case with Light Armor, it doesn't quite get you to the cap, but you're all of three or four points off, so that should be close enough. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:So essentially, the gist I'm getting is that if a user specializes in an Armor skill with perks, a non-perked Smithing skill will be all that's necessary to hit the armor protection cap for either armor type. The question is, then, do the perks make a sufficient difference in weapon power over non-perked improvements? Does spending five perks on Daedric smithing allow a significant and worthwhile advantage over Daedric weapons that are improved without the perk?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.60|166.182.3.60]] 17:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::I do believe the point the original poster pointed out is that it is easily possible to hit the armor cap without spending perks in the SMITHING tree....he said nothing about the heavy/light armor trees. He has a point as far as the armor goes, i'd imagine with the 150% armor bonus you can get from the perks in the heavy/light armor trees, you could easily cap out, and it also seems to be even more appealing if you plan on using a unique weapon, of the type that can't be upgraded with a smithing perk (mace of molag bal for example). if you plan, however, on using daedric weapons, i fully suggest getting the smithing perks. Basically, after 100 smithing, weapons for which you have the perk upgrade 2.5 times faster. roughly one "level" of damage every 20 points as opposed to every 50 points. max armsman, ~100% fortify one-handed damage, a one-handed skill of 82, and a daedric sword smithed up to about 225 skill (with perk) and i'm doing about 210 damage per swing...i can kill dragons in 2-3 power attacks. [[User:Limduhl|Limduhl]] 19:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::The difference between weaponry that has been improved with a perk and weaponry that has not been improved with a perk is much greater than the difference between different tiers of weaponry. Continuing my previous example, a Daedric bow that has been improved without the perk will do a mere 48 damage. The Elven bow that has been improved with the perk does much better than that. So, if you're looking for heavy armor that hits the damage cap AND hard-hitting weaponry, you could spend one perk in Heavy Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Heavy Armor and two perks in Smithing (to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). Similarly with light armor, you could spend two perks in Light Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Light Armor and two perks in Smithing (once again, to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 19:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Would you consider this drastic difference game breaking? Three shotting a dragon seems like it would ruin the flow of play, and is likely to get nerfed by a patch. What about the hardest difficulty? What sort of difference do the perk improved weapons make then?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.237|166.182.3.237]] 19:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Understand that this answer is much more subjective. Personally, I think Smithing is game-breaking. 80% damage reduction is too good. Being able to kill most normal enemies in one or two hits is too good. Without armor improvement and Fortify enchantments, the best you can do with Daedric armor is 66% damage reduction, and a bit more if you use a shield. Without weapon improvement and Fortify enchantments, the most damage you're going to be dealing with a Daedric bow in normal combat is 53 damage (or 80 damage if you get a critical hit). Both of those are assuming you gain max skill and take your perks in Heavy Armor and Archery. If you take a look at my previous examples, you can see the comparison. Smithing saves you a few defensive perks while also buffing your weaponry significantly (the same player with a Smithing-perk improved Daedric bow is dealing 140 damage, or 210 on a critical hit). Now, I haven't played on Master difficulty, so I don't know if that sort of damage reduction or damage output is really necessary. On Expert, it's not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 21:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::I thought as much. It would be worth testing the hard mode effects, if someone who owns the game would be willing, but making a note on the main page of the exploit's ability to significantly alter gameplay might be wise. Likewise, an edit might also mention that, unless patched, the exploit could gain similar benefits to a non-exploit + perk combination, which could save more "moderate" players a few perk points in their build.[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.209|166.182.3.209]] 00:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::I would be interested in that. There are many interesting perks to spend the few extra points on. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.15.252|95.206.15.252]] 17:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
{{Outdent|:::::}}
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." You can't call Smithing an exploit. It's an intended part of the game. It may not be well balanced, but it's not an exploit.

I think a part of the problem is that there is no way to level up Smithing organically. For example, I can level up Alteration by standing around casting Detect Life in the middle of a crowded city, but that's fairly boring. I can also let Alteration level up a bit at a time by casting Stoneskin while I'm in fights, which is obviously more exciting and fun. With Smithing, the only way to level it up is to grind out some items. If I'm going to be grinding and my skill has no chance of improving without future grinding, then I might as well go ahead and get as much of it out of the way as I can. This can lead to quickly getting 100 Smithing. Alchemy suffers from the same problem. Enchanting would as well except you can enchant up a Soul Trap weapon and head out into the field with Azura's Star for a more organic approach to leveling up. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 18:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

This has drifted quite a long way off the original topic, but the short answer is "yes": there is absolutely no NEED to take any smithing perks at all, ever. It won't in any way impact the quality of your gear at any level, including endgame. There are BENEFITS to taking them though: they can give you access to "above level" gear, making you significantly stronger during the first 2/3 or so of the game. Arcane Blacksmith is an arguable exception though, since it provides a very significant benefit during those early levels, and at a cost of only 2 perks is certainly worth taking unless your build is cripplingly starved. It will also allow you to improve Uniques, which is often highly desirable. [[User:Aliana|Aliana]] 10:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Clarification on the Item_Quality section? ==

At level 48, with Smithing Skill of 100, Fortify Smithing of 12% (Forgemaster's Fingers), and Ebony Armor perk, I can improve an Ebony Bow from 56 to 95 (Legendary). The [[Skyrim:Smithing#Item_Quality]] section seems (seems) to insist that this Ebony Bow should go from 56 to 66 (+10), with my qualifications. Is there some sort of general caveat or other info missing from this section? Such as how the [[Skyrim:Armor|Armor]] section says "everything only applies to base armor ratings"? Thanks if you can help -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 05:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

: Actually that table says that "at smithing 91 with perk you'll be able to improve your bow to Legendary with +10 damage", what happens with more smithing is not in the table.[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 13:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Incremental upgrade progress - clarification needed ==

maybe it is me being dumb, but is the following true - when player's effective smithing is in range for quality X upgraded item gets quality X with +Y corresponding to X, no matter how close effective smithing is to higher border of the interval corresponding to quality X...
Thus, if you have 100 smithing and a perk, you upgrade to Legendary #1 (+10), if you add, say, 9% more smithing, you still get legendary #1 (+10), but if you add, say 20%, you get Legendary #2 with bigger bonus (+11 ?)
/Sergio/ [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 18:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Enhance smithing 100% = perk ==

I have just been messing around a bit with console commands and enchanting and smithing. i have discovered something interesting after i created myself gloves of 100% to smithing. at 100% i can improve items to legendary at exactly level 91 of smithing. one point less and it is epic. (taken no perks at all in smithing, obviously)

== Left side vs. Right side for a light armor character ==

Right side is of course better(Daedric weapons and best light armor) but it also requires one perk more. Daedric weapons do only 2 points of damage more than Glass weapons; with Legendary upgrade, the difference is minor. Since lowest-damage weapons have biggest % difference, let's take dagger as an example. Glass dagger does 9 damage, Daedric - 11. That's 19% damage difference. But when upgraded to Legendary, the damage becomes 19 and 21; the difference becomes slightly less than 10%. Overupgrading with even better Legendary levels will decrease the gap further. So left side is still worth considering for characters low on available perk points. [[Special:Contributions/178.183.231.186|178.183.231.186]] 07:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Smithing

2011-12-06T20:11:00Z

84.63.187.133: /* Certain weapons can't be improved */

== Create page ==
I saw that Elliot said we could create pages, but it still says that I'm not allowed. If it is only for Administraters or patrollers etc. I'm sorry. But if someone wants to create a pickpocketing page, I have a list of all the perks for it on my User page. Thanks. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:45, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

:It's on a blacklist at the moment. Elliot is on about removing it so it's just that anons can't create and edit (i think) and think under 'Skyrim'. It is only Admins at the moment though. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 20:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

::Thanks:), I have the perk tree for pickpocketing too so if anybody needs it it can be copied and pasted from me. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:09, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Verifying the 'Custom items' statement ==

On the page, it claims that hides can be used to customize your items, and I'd like to know an official source for this before I start telling people about it. UESP is usually very professional, but seeing as how there is very little information about the game so far, and the source for this info isn't cited on the page, I'd like to know where the person who added it got this information from. {{unsigned|76.20.221.160|9 October 2011}}

:First, as the banner at the top of the article says, all information is preliminary and subject to change. The only way to be completely certain about any game facts is to wait until the game is released.
:The statement about using hides is a summary of several statements I've seen about how Smithing works. For example, [http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/preview-3152.html a Videogamer preview] says:
::"''Kill a wolf, for example, and you can skin him for his hide, which you can then take to a tannery and turn into leather to use as material to design leather-hilted axes and daggers.''"
:If you prefer hard-copy sources, the PC Gamer Skyrim article says, in reference to "an animal hide" found at a crafting station:
::"''... here you'd take leather and make leather strips... you'd then use leather strips to make your own swords and stuff like that.''"
:It also says:
::"''You could get other items from the tanning rack and combine them all to create weapons and armor''."
:--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sword Sharpening ==

I understand weapons and armor do not degrade, but if you can sharpen your blades does that mean they become dull after a while of fighting, or does it just increase the damage one time depending on your skill level. Thanks.[[User:Apod|Apod]] 18:44, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, they just stay at that level until you improve them further. Then when you're smithing skill improves, you can improve your weapons even more and they will never degrade below that new level and so on until your weapon is at the highest improved level possible.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
::In that case would the swords spawn with a set dullness/sharpness or start at a zero percent until your character brings it to the grind stone. [[User:Apod|Apod]] 21:04, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Let's say you find a steel longsword that does 10 damage, it will be at 100% health and it will never degrade any further. Then you can sharpen it to 110% and now it will never degrade below 110% health and it will do more damage. Then you can sharpen it to 120%(if you are skilled enough) and then 130% and so on. Once you sharpen it, it will never degrade below it's new level so basically you permanently increase it's damage and health. I don't know if you can find weapons that have already been sharpened though.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 12:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::: Ah, yeah I understand now, it's similar to being an expert armorer in oblivion when you could raise the condition past 100%. Thank you for your help. One more week... [[User:Apod|Apod]] 20:44, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Except they've taken weapon condition out of the game entirely. Weapons and armor simply no longer have "condition". They have quality levels now instead. Item durability/health is not a part of this game. [[Special:Contributions/24.237.190.24|24.237.190.24]] 18:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Maces sharpenning? ==

I'm wondering, can we also upgrade maces and warhammers at a grindstone? It wouldn't really make sense but on the other hand it would mean that we can't upgrade these weapons. Or do we have to do it at a workbench?{{unsigned|77.84.51.169|18:36, 5 November 2011}}
:You can sharpen any weapon. Maces usually kill by causing a large impact to organs or other important areas such as blood vessels with effects such as internal bleeding but by sharpening it the mace might cause puncture wounds resulting in blood loss. Workbenches are for improving armour.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

:“Sharpening” a mace might be improving the flanges (i.e. the bit on the side that help to focuses the impact) or improving the weighting (again increasing how much damage it courses) rather than literally sharpening it.

:You can sharpen bows as well. :) --[[Special:Contributions/86.9.123.15|86.9.123.15]] 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

== There is only one rank of every perk. ==

None of them have two ranks. Not a single one. Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back? Look at the images from all of the prerelease gameplay floating around. 1 rank of each Smithing perk. Whoever is keeping this charade of two ranks a piece is perpetuating a falsehood with malice aforethought. Stop it! [[Special:Contributions/97.103.109.193|97.103.109.193]] 02:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
:The only reliable sources that I've seen show two ranks for each perk. Although it's very possible that it's been changed since the beta version of the game, we'll have to wait for the game is actually released to confirm that. Any other information that you're seeing right now is from a pirated version of the game, which is not a reliable source. I'd rather perpetuate beta-version information than perpetuate illegal information.
:Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back?". The [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Smithing&action=history edit history] of the page does not show any edit, ever, where the number of ranks was changed for any of the perks. Furthermore, none of the edits that you've made to any of the skill pages has been undone. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::1 as in O-N-E rank for all the smithing perks. {{uns|91.113.8.202|12:35, 6 November 2011}}
:::There are two ranks for them as for as official sources have shown. We are sticking with official sources for now. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 12:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::::It's one rank per perk according to all people that have had a "hands-on" game. If the official information says otherwise, then it is just bogus. The version that has been made available illegally is also the retail version, not a beta. {{uns|Loufoque|13:17, 6 November 2011}}
:::::My neighbor is a reviewer and has an official copy of the game for the Xbox. One rank per perk. [[Special:Contributions/174.109.111.197|174.109.111.197]] 18:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}Well, we'll update it as soon as he posts a review with this information in it. Or, better yet, when the game is released this Friday. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 18:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Skyrim broke street date in Australia yesterday (final release). I confirm there is only one rank per smithing perk. Updated accordingly. Back to gaming... --[[User:Alienangel|Alienangel]] 11 November 2011
::"Illegal information." oO --[[Special:Contributions/188.109.121.159|188.109.121.159]] 22:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Power Leveling Section ==

"Power leveling Theory

Continually switch forges, buy out all iron ignots and leather strips, then produce as many iron daggers as possible and sell the daggers back to the forge master. Keep doing this at every forge possible and you will easily level up smithing. For those with less money, you may mine your own iron ore, but it is less effective, as it slows time.

Hunt animals for hides, process these into leather and leather strips at a tanning rack, then use the forge to craft leather bracers. Enchant bracers to level enchanting at the same time. Sell to level speech and make some gold."

Is this section really necessary? I mean, it's pretty obvious that you would level your smithing faster by getting items and crafting them into things. The only thing it really tells me is that Iron Daggers and Leather Bracers are some of the best possible options. But I don't see a Power Leveling section on Enchanting or Alchemy, let alone on any pages in Oblivion for those skills.

If anything I'd expect a page like this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Increasing_Skills to be started on instead of putting the leveling tips on each page as it makes it easier to find and leaves the skill pages for explaining the hard facts about the skills instead of suggestions and such [[Special:Contributions/76.115.250.108|76.115.250.108]] 12:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not even that good of a method of power leveling your smithing. If you are willing to use a bit of alteration magic, get yourself transmute. Then upgrade all your iron ore into gold ore, and from there smelt that down to gold ingots that you then use in the forge to create gold rings. This way not only will you be working on your smithing, but your alteration too. You'll also net a profit in the end. Of course this method is a bit mana intensive, meaning that if you haven't upped your magic reserves at all, you'll only be able to cast transmute once before needing to let your pool recharge. Sort of annoying if you consider that you have to cast the smell 4 times to get enough gold ore for a single ingot. [[User:Syntic|Syntic]] 13:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

:I agree, so I removed it and added a section to the "Notes" about this method, because it is the fastest. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 01:47, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

== Rings vs Necklaces? ==

It says in the notes section that one ingot is used for necklaces and rings, but it doesn't say that you get two rings with one ingot. I just started the game so have only been able to make silver jewelry, but the value of the two rings added together is the same as the value of the necklace, so is this statement even true, let alone necessary? If someone who knows what they are doing could remove that statement, or edit it to reflect the truth, I'm afraid I don't know how... [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:That note needs to be removed, the one ingot for two rings is the same as the necklace. As well as the fact two rings is twice the objects you can enchant ;) [[Special:Contributions/75.150.195.86|75.150.195.86]] 15:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not sure why neither of you removed it if you felt it should be removed, but I went ahead and got rid of it. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 17:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks Baron, when I tried to do it yesterday I couldn't get the edit screen to show me any text I could edit, when I looked again just now, it was all there. weird. [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Any qualities beyond Legendary? ==

Have smithing maxed at 100 (like a BAWS)

Can smithing improvement gloves/etc. be used to create anything better than legendary?

:Legendary is the highest quality. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 12:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

you can continue to improve the att/def of items with plus smithing enchants and potions after 100.
Works on Armor Hand Neck and Ring. Active effects list ring x3 instead of each piece of gear. i only had one potion of 20% so dont know if more can be added or stronger potion. Glass Armor with +100% went to 90 Def. legomike
:My alchemy skill and perks have me making 71% potions. And there are stock potions for 50%+ in the game. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
::Smithing upgrades seem to have a cap somewhere around 230 skill, can anyone confirm exactly where? Or perhaps the values do not scale linearly? -[[Special:Contributions/91.153.22.204|91.153.22.204]] 18:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Effects for improving weapons? ==

I see someone added columns to the chart showing the amount of bonus given to torso armor and the other pieces. Does anyone have any data on the amount of bonus given to weapons? Is it different for daggers, maces, warhammers, bows, etc? --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

i just got my daedric curiass to 348, idk if theres a cap or not but i havent hit it yet. im currently looking for some good smithing enhancment items (shouldve done enchanting :/ ) 10:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== daedra hearts ==

Anyone find a somewhat steady supply for daedra hearts to craft daedric items?
other than ingrediant merchants that is. If there is some way to get them possibly put it in the notes section
JJ Lopez

:The Azura's Star quest line gives you 3-5 Daedra Hearts, as well as the ingredient vendors as you mentioned. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Enthir at the college of Winterhold sells two Daedra heart at a time and restocks about every two days. You can find him either in the courtyard of the college or in his room in the Hall of Attainment second level. - Simnos.
::Also at the College of Winterhold you can use the Atronach Forge down the midden to create them; if I remember what I read correctly it requires a black soul gem and a human heart. Of course, neither of those is exactly common so I don't know if it's worth doing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

:I found daedra heart constantly respawning at Kodlak's room in Jorvaskr, after i completed companions quest line. - Riot

Just found that the Dremora at the shine to mehrunes dagon respawn. good way of making money and a steady supply of deadra hearts for armour weapons. --[[User:J.J.-Lopez|J.J.-Lopez]] 01:03, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Which branch to take ==

Should the note about going up the right side be edited? Yes the right side has stronger armor, however it is all heavy armor. For a light armor type person like myself, the left tree was a much better choice. Just a thought.

:There's no reason to use Light Armor over Heavy Armor. Once you get the Weightless perk for Heavy Armor it is better in every way than Light Armor, unfortunately. Also, as the note says, going up the right side gives you access to Daedric weapons, which at their base are better than Glass weapons. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 07:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::I disagree with this statement, Baron. If you're a sneaky type (at least a GOOD sneaky type), you won't get hit enough to ever level your heavy armor skill to the necessary 70 to get the Weightless perk. Until then it'll make more noise than light and seriously impact your carrying capacity due to the increased weight. For a combat character I'd agree, heavy > light armor. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::The Wind Walker perk is also quite usefull --Lex 23:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC+1)
:Isn't it also untrue that the right side is all Heavy Armor? The strongest Light Armor smithing is Dragon Smithing. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 08:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::Dragon Smithing is both heavy armor and light armor. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:34, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
:::My personal belief is that the answer to the question "what is your character using?" is also the answer to which path to take, if you're only going to take one. However, I will say that the left path produces substandard weaponry in the long run. Glass weapons are good, but they just don't compare to ebony or daedric. I went the right path but also took elven smithing because elven weapons are slightly better than dwarven and quite a bit better than orcish.--[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

My major qualm with the statement is that this path requires you to spend a lot of skill perks in HA (or armour at all) to make it absolutely superior (which it then will become, agreed). But if you have a few other points of interest, you may run out of perk points to do so (you need one extra for smithing plus some more for getting heavy armour to work as described). As a level 41 sneaky arch(ery)mage I have yet to have extra perk points for armour at all - and you would need 3 armour (plus 1 smithing) perk you'll miss somewhere else. You'll get better self constructed weaponry, but that's it, the other perks may be completely wasted (Boosting unarmed attack? Halving damage from falling? Both not really convincing, are they?). So while this may generally be a true statement for smithing inclined characters, it is far from the absolute truth. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.179.72|93.232.179.72]] 05:39, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:No it doesn't; at most, you 'waste' one perk. Let's say you're more interested in light armor. You're still better served going down the heavy armor branch. You get the better weaponry and the same top-level light armor. "But what ever will I do until I get to Dragon Armor?" you ask. The same thing anyone that isn't Smithing does - find it or buy it. In addition, you'll have something to do with all those Dwarven Metal Ingots you'll have laying around: make something for profit and to level your Smithing. So the trade-off is one perk to complete the right side for superior weaponry. Considering that you generally survive by killing your foes, superior weaponry seems worth it. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Question: are you able to learn Daedric smithing from the dragon armour? IE, go up the light path to dragon armour, then down one of the heavy paths to get Daedric? Because, if this is the case, then what path you go down doesn't matter, as to get both Daedric and Dragon requires 6 perks (including steel). I'm a little disappointed that the light path has two armour only perks that have no weapons but heavy armour, and the heavy armour tree gets only heavy armour and the best weapons, seems a little uneven.--[[User:Kratch|Kratch]] 17:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, you cannot circle around after Dragon Armor. I agree that the Light Armor path is disappointing. Advanced Armor is probably the most useless perk ever. "Hey, over here in the Light Armor smithing side, you can learn to smith a Heavy Armor!" --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 17:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

You're right about that (only one perk even if you're going for LA). I should point out, though, that one of the reasonings for HA is that it is strictly superior with the right perks, which is correct, but that way wastes perks to reach this state. I was probably mixing up those two aspects. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.183.243|93.232.183.243]] 21:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Fortify Smithing ==

Does this effect increase the statistics of an item when you make it or does it just increase the improvements made at the grindstone and workbench? [[User:Olioster|Olioster]] 15:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I think it increases your effective skill. Another site has a chart for the improvements that goes well beyond 100 smithing skill, and shows higher improvements at higher skill levels. I have no idea how far it goes. However, I will say this much: when my first character reached 100 smithing, I made and improved an Ebony Mace for myself, since the damage for the ebony was the same as the daedric. I had a necklace that added 12% to smithing, but didn't use it then. Later, when I was making a Daedric War Axe, I had disenchanted that necklace, enchanted another as well as two pieces of leather armor to 8% each, and used all of those plus a smithing potion for the improvement. When I did, I discovered that I could improve the ebony mace yet again, to higher than it was before. There is definitely some category higher than 100 smithing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::Yes, even if the item is Legendary quality, it can still be improved upon, and there does not appear to be a cap on how far the improvement can go, so potions and enchantments that fortify smithing, perks and smithing skill can combine to make weapons and armor that have exorbitant stats. In theory, a character that perks heavily into crafting can make some of the highest rated weapons and armor possible, through fortified enchantments, fortified potions and max smithing perks and skill. There's also a cross-crafting exploit with enchanting and alchemy that could potentially push the smithing improvements beyond game breaking limits. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

To directly answer your question, it only affects improvements made at the grindstone/workbench. Items stats can also be increased with fortify smithing enchants/potions, though the name will remain legendary.

== Materials ==

It might be useful to provide a list of what crafting items correspond to which item types
i.e.
Leather to Hide Armour
Iron Ingot to Iron Armour
Steel Ingot to Steel Armour
Refined Malachite for Glass...
etc.
:I completely agree with you, However, your use of "i.e." was incorrect. I.E. means "id est" which is Latin for "that is" meaning you are stating something very specific. I think you meant to use "E.G." which means exempli gratia which, in English, translates into "for the sake of example" meaning you are listing off a few examples, no more. While that has nothing to do with your question in any way, it still drove me insane. I do, of course agree with your suggestion, though. And it might also be useful to give examples of steady sources of these things. I can't find ebony anywhere, and it's driving me nuts! I need ebony!--[[User:M45T3R594RT4N|M45T3R594RT4N]] 06:41, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

== Steel Smithing ==

I recently aquired the steel smithing perk and am unable to smith steel...does anyone else have this problem? How do I fix this? I have reached level 30 smithing.

[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)confused smith[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:At a guess, you either didn't confirm the selection of the perk (in which case you don't actually have it yet, I did that once, open your skills and see if you have any unspent perks) or you are lacking one or more materials to make it. If you have the perk, there should be a category at the forge interface named Steel. If you're lacking materials then the choices will be greyed out. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 16:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Legendary pt. 2/3/4/5/etc ==

Apparently (according to other wiki's and my personal experience), there are more than one tiers of Legendary. I have 100 smithing and the correct perks, and I was able to upgrade my legendary daedric sword to legendary (but two damage points higher) by wearing 20% boost smithing gauntlets... Somebody with the construction kit look into this. [[User:Stouf761|Stouf761]] 14:04, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not out just yet, but yes there are tier(s) above basic Legendary. I've got two 12% smithing items and two 10% smithing items, which allow some nice improvement. Tossing a 40-50% potion on top of those allows still more improvement. I'm just not sure if the data table on the other wiki is correct. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
::That's true, look up some crazy smithing and enchanting videos - you can boost a Daedric dagger to 100 dmg or more. The limit is very high and you can boost smithing via potions and enchanting armor. --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 20:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I'd don't believe it would be possible to boost a dagger's damage to 100. I've got 100 smithing and about 60% fortify smithing items, plus a 30% potion, and I could only get a glass SWORD to 40 damage.
::::I can get a glass sword to 80 without any kind of +smithing enchants. But you can get a weapons damage to anything you want by taking advantage of the bugged potion system. Just depends on how much time you want to put into it. Apparently the most damage you can get out of a deadric swords without the time spent vs. damage increase being ridiculously low is 1200 dmg per hit. There is an article on it on the official bethesda forums anyway... [[Special:Contributions/213.81.109.62|213.81.109.62]] 01:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::A note to everyone discussing exact numbers on weapons: Those numbers are modified by your skill and/or any relevant enchantments you may have. It's pretty easy to get a dagger over 100 damage... if you have 100 skill, lots of perks, and two or three items with a 40% or more bonus each. --[[Special:Contributions/129.49.21.175|129.49.21.175]] 03:14, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
: I've been wondering this since I have a ring for +17% smithing but when I wear it or don't wear it, there is no difference in the stats of "legendary" items I can craft. That is to say, the same armour crafted with or without the ring gets the same stats so long as I can reach the grade of legendary, however a lot of things I have read do seem to indicate tiers of legendary. I'm going to test this some more tonight, as mentioned above, it's hard to know if people just have maxed enchants and skills to boost their weapon stats.

== SIDES IN SMITHING ==

i was wondering, your choice is smithing (right-left), is permanent..?i mean if u choose heavy than u cant smith light and the opposite???
:If you start taking heavy armor smithing perks, they wont stop you from gaining light armor smithing perks later {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 19:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::You can get both...did it myself. It's not very wise to waste the perk points though, so I'd just pick one and stick with it. No respending perk points, so only if you're playing the PC version can you remove/add perks through the console.

== Random armor/weapon loot ==

Just curiosity on my part here: has anyone randomly found any pieces of daedric armor or weaponry aside from arrows? If so, how much and what level were you? My orc is level 44, and I haven't seen a single piece of daedric yet as random loot. I've found a few pieces of ebony armor and weapons in dungeons, and even once ran across a hostile NPC on a road (just called Breton) who was wearing ebony armor/boots/gauntlets, but no daedric thus far aside from what I made myself. Smithing has been well worth the investment to me just for this reason. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 22:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I am hoping that you can find daedric weapons ingame at least. I didn't want to waste points going down to daedric just for weapons.

My character is level 57, and daedric weapons, armor and arrows are starting to show up regularly now.[[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Each type ==

Should we here add list of all thing that can be made in smith and what we need for it? From Iron to Dragon?
--[[User:Aleksa|Aleksa]] 21:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:It would be nice to have a crafting page that lists the materials required, their base value, and the final item's base value. But don't do it unless you can make it look good, in a table.
::Perhaps try checking the already-existing pages at [[Skyrim:Forge|Forge]], [[Skyrim:Grindstone|Grindstone]], and [[Skyrim:Workbench|Workbench]]? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 07:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Certain weapons can't be improved ==

I know at least three weapons that can't be improved via smithing: Shield of Solitude, Skyforge Steel Dagger and Supple Ancient Nord Bow, I think the article should mention that as a bug. Also, does anyone know if there is a console command to "unlock" these items into making them improveable? :)

I have found Nightingale Blade and Bow can not be improved either. And also Wooden Mask (From Labiryntian) and Diadem of the Savant (although it may be a bug that diadem is classed as light armor instead of clothing) 08:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

: I'm currently using a "Nightingale Bow (Legendary)". IIRC, both the Bow and the Blade can be improved with Ebony Ingots (if you have the [[Skyrim:Arcane Blacksmith|Arcane Blacksmith]] perk --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Smithing Master Quest ==

I know there are some other master quests that open up when you reach 100 skill, like the one that gives you a new spell in destruction. Is there one for smithing, that gives you say, a new craftable item?

: I don't know of such but if there is my bet is that it's either given at the Skyforge (may have to complete Companions quest line first) or at forge in Riften (That special one that the smith asks you to get firesalts to "feed" to it). --[[Special:Contributions/213.178.104.81|213.178.104.81]] 22:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

::It's not from the smithie at Riften... I have 100 Smith skill and gave him the 10 fire salts. No new quest. -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 04:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
i was wondering the same thing...i have a legendary dragon armor and i went to improve it and it said to me that u dont have the required skill...is there more improveness in weapons and armors???what is the reward for the fire salts quest?i'm about to start wondering all skyrim in every shop...if there is no special reward for that just money or armor no need for all that trouble..!

== Improving weapons even more ==

I had smithing/enchanting/alchemy maxed out, made the 130 percent better smithing potion, and the 4 apparel pieces of 49 percent better smithing. I thought that this way, I could sharpen stuff to the max. (Without mask glitching.)
I recently went to improve some new armor pieces, when I noticed that I could improve my previous pieces even further! All of them! I don't know the reason for that, since skills and gear were already maxed. Did anyone else notice this? Does anyone know the reason? [[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Smithing for Money:

What is the best way to forge items for profit?
For example, how high does speech need to be to balance out the ratio of buying raw materials and selling back a finished product (e.g. dwarf armor?).

[[Special:Contributions/71.90.234.87|71.90.234.87]] 06:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC) Hairmetalml

== Smithing Silver ==

There doesn't seem to be a smithing perk for it, and it doesn't come up as an option when at forges, and I can't improve silver weapons at grindstones. I have loads of silver ingots, but I can't use them. Is it actually possible to smith with silver?

:you can make jewrelly with silver, thats it. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 13:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC))

== Bugged Fortify Smithing ==

Wearing multiple smith-increasing items with the same effect (e.g. necklace +20% + bracers +20%) seems to bug out and only applies one of them (seemingly random which ones). Under Active Effects, two fortifications are shown but they are both from exactly the same item. Anyone else having this problem?

Sometimes an item's fortifications even shows as being active when I'm not even wearing the item!

[[Special:Contributions/82.23.158.97|82.23.158.97]] 23:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am having the same bug (I'm on the Xbox by the way), both with custom-created Fortify Smithing and Alchemy items that provide the same magnitude of effect. When I wear the gear, multiple instances of the same item are listed under Active Effects, or sometimes even the name of an unequipped item of identical magnitude appears instead when I equip just one item. Also my custom-made Fortify Smithing potion won't appear under Active Effects if I'm wearing my Smithing gear. If I unequip the gear, it appears.

I haven't crunched the numbers to see if the full buff is being applied to created items. However I did try removing my gear (I was wearing four Fortify Smithing items) one by one when I was improving some armor, and I had to be wearing all four for the option to improve the armor to appear (white highlighted text) in the Smithing menu, even though Active effects claimed I was wearing three Gauntlets. So it seems there is some effect being applied even when the names in the Active Effects menu are screwed up.

== Cleaning Up the "Notes" section. ==

As you all might have noticed the Notes section is getting rather big, and is quickly becoming an unorganized mess. Rather than taking away valuable information we might do well to create new pages or sections concerning among other things: Help leveling up and items that fortify smithing... Tell me what you think [[User:Thelastoneusaw|Thelastoneusaw]] 16:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:In helping to resolve this problem a bit, here's a chunk out of the notes that should have been a discussion on the talk page: "Some items have a limited evolution cap, meaning you can't refine them over a certain level. For example, the Blades armor won't go above "Exquisite" regardless of your skill. Whether it's a bug or not is unknown. (It's not since you can't get its perk you cannot improve it twice as much.)

:[Blade armour can be improved to legendary, if 1. The player has a high blacksmithing skill (such as 100). 2. The player is wearing enchanted clothing which give a bonus to blacksmithing (With a skill level of 100 in enchanting it is possible to make +25% bonus to blacksmithing items e.g. a set of gloves, a ring, a necklace and a main body clothing item. This is without an enchanting potion. With an enchanting potion I've hit +28% blacksmithing), and 3. the player uses a powerful potion which increases blacksmithing skill. With 'perks' spent in the heavy armour tree, blade armour can reach the 567 armour cap and thus give 80% damage reduction]."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 00:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:Another note. If anyone disagrees and thinks any of these should be on the main page, post about it. "The fastest way to train your Smithing skill is to make iron daggers, as they only need 1 iron bar and 1 leather strip to be made.If you're aiming to get to level 100 Smithing, you will need a lot of gold beforehand if you're going to buy the materials. Also, after exhausting a smith's supply of iron bars, iron ore, leather, and/or leather strips, you can wait for 2 days (48 hours) to restock the smith's supply of them. A cheap way of doing this is to craft hide and leather armors at the forge. These require only leather and leather strips, which can be obtained for free through hunting. The plains right outside Whiterun are rich in deer, wolves and in late game even an occasional saber cat. All these yield free leather with an added bonus of improving archery or other combat traits. Also leather armor fetches better prices than iron daggers, racking up gold and speech bonuses each time they are sold."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 22:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:I come bearing more notes. "By far the easiest way to increase smithing is to make lots and lots of iron daggers. By fast traveling continuously between three different holds, it is possible to endlessly purchase iron ore, iron ingots and animal hides. (Whiterun should be among these, as the smith and her husband have different shop inventories.)Once a massive amount of materials has been compiled, transform them into iron ingot and leather strips. Then make iron daggers. Even at level 90+ it only takes 10 or 11 daggers to gain a level. Overall, the materials required to get smithing from level 20 to 100 using this method cost less than ten thousand gold. This gold is easily attained using the method below."

:"An effective way to raise your Smithing skill is by making jewelry. This method is very good for aspiring smiths short on money, because you can raise your skill and make coin at the same time. A good way to take advantage of this is to head out to places containing a lot Gold or Silver Ore veins (e.g. [[Skyrim:Kolskeggr Mine|Kolskeggr Mine]] which yields 24 gold veins) and use the ore to make jewelry. If you learn the Transmute alteration spell (which can easily be attained from [[Skyrim:Halted Stream Camp|Halted Stream Camp]]) you can also find or buy iron ore, transmute it into silver and then gold ore, and then smelt it into gold ingots from which you can make jewelry." --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:39, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Notched pickaxe does not stack ==

the effect from the notched pickaxe does not seem to stack with other smithing bonuses, i have the silver blood family ring, and had already upgraded my armor and weapons with it, equiping the pickaxe and the ring did not give me the option to improve it any more, i then bought some gauntlets that let me improve items more, those and the silver blood ring let me upgrade my items, the gauntlets and the pick didnt, as the ring and the pick didnt either. Feedback?

Also on a unrelated note, ''some'' artifacts can be upgraded higher than flawless, without smithing bonuses with the perk bonus, for example, my ebony mail can be upgraded to legendary using the ebony smithing perk, using a ebony bar, so it is obviously counted as a ebony cuirass. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC))

== Is there a CAP to improving items? ==

I do not know if this is true, but for me seemes that one can only upgrade items up to double their base price (without perk) or up to triple their base price (with a perk), and this is achieved at about 200% smithing, further increase of smithing does not give anything. Am I right? [[Special:Contributions/195.19.39.175|195.19.39.175]] 08:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I read about a hardcap of approximately 800 armor, anything above is of no use. Do not know if this is true.

There is no cap to the values (damage reduction is capped at 80% but the displayed armor rating will continue to increase). You can test with the console. --[[User:Evil4Zerggin|Evil4Zerggin]] 00:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Yea, but could you, Evil4Zerggin, answer my initial question about "smithing" cap?
(that first strings are mine even if from another IP)
[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 08:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Why bother with perks? ==

Unless Bethesda severely alters the whole alchemy/enchanting/smithing triangle with a patch, it seems wasteful to drop any perk points in Smithing.

For one, every single item that has a creation perk is available through alternative means. Even Daedric armor and weaponry will show up in random loot at a high level.

Next, armor has a cap. Improving your armor beyond a certain point is useless.

That armor cap can be reached, theoretically, with any items. The perks are not needed, since you can just uber-fortify your Smithing skill and get to Legendary.

Fortifying weapon damage to obscene levels seems like it would just make the game less enjoyable, unless you're playing the hardest difficulty. (how much do ubersmithed weapons help on the hardest difficulty anyway?)

Since it seems like the perks only offer the benefit of early game access to high level armor, should the page make note that late game optimizing players might just want to skip the two arms of the perk tree?
[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.54|166.182.3.54]] 03:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:An interesting posit. Really, you're going to have to spend the perks somewhere. Assume a character that has max skill and no perks in either Heavy Armor or Smithing. With Daedric improved through the enchant/alchemy loop, you're only going to get to about 51% damage reduction. Adding four Fortify Heavy Armor enchants will only bump that up to about 61%. So the question is, "Which way would it be most efficient to spend your perks?" Assuming you'd prefer to save your enchants for something other than Fortify Heavy Armor, you can spend four perks in the Heavy Armor tree to get your armor rating to hit cap (either four ranks of Juggernaut or Juggernaut->Well Fitted->Tower of Strength->Matching Set). This has the nice side-effect of reducing the amount of stagger you take. Alternately, you could spend five perks in Smithing and take one rank of Juggernaut. This will also put you over the armor cap while letting you upgrade your weapons twice as well. Personally, I think Smithing is the better choice. Under the "only Heavy Armor perks" scenario, I doubt you could spend two more perks anywhere on the perk tree and be nearly as effective as you would have been if you'd had the upgraded weaponry of the Smithing perks. However, if you're really only after the armor (say, you're playing a Heavy Armor Destruction mage), then the Heavy Armor perks are a better value. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 04:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Heavy Armor does, however, benefit much more from its smithing perk path. What of Light Armor users?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.48|166.182.3.48]] 05:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::In my opinion, Light Armor users should still go down the right side of the path. The left side of the path is disappointing in terms of weaponry, and both sides lead to Dragon Armor, which is your goal if you're going with Light Armor. With Dragonscale, you'll hit about 47% damage reduction. Adding the four Light Armor enchants only gets you to around 56%. With four Light Armor perks (2 ranks of Agile Defender, Custom Fit, and Matching Set) and no enchants, you can hit the armor cap. Alternately, with six Smithing perks and two Light Armor perks (either 2 ranks of Agile Defender or Agile Defender + Custom Fit) you can hit the armor cap. Obviously with Light Armor, it's much harder to defend spending an extra four perks for your weapon upgrades. A middle ground is using the left side of Smithing, which only costs five Smithing perks (plus the two Light Armor perks) but nets you Glass weaponry to upgrade instead of Daedric.

::::I'd never run the numbers before for weaponry, but apparently the max damage isn't that different. For example, assuming a character with max skill but no weaponry perks and some enchant/alchemy loop improved weaponry with the Smithing perks, a Glass Bow will be dealing 64 damage while a Daedric Bow will be dealing 70 damage. I'm pretty sure the weapon perks won't change the relative difference; the Glass Bow will always be a little more than 8% damage behind the Daedric Bow. The Elven Bow isn't even that bad. Upgraded, it deals 62 damage. Is it less damage? Well, yeah. Is it an amount of damage you're going to care about? Probably not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::Is it worth considering the role of the Alteration spells in this? At least for the Heavy Armor Destruction mage mentioned above, considering how often you'll need cap in the first place, 40-80 points could reliably be shaved off. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.0.227|95.206.0.227]] 12:54, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::It looks like with Stoneskin or higher, you could get by with one less armor perk in each case. In one case with Light Armor, it doesn't quite get you to the cap, but you're all of three or four points off, so that should be close enough. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:So essentially, the gist I'm getting is that if a user specializes in an Armor skill with perks, a non-perked Smithing skill will be all that's necessary to hit the armor protection cap for either armor type. The question is, then, do the perks make a sufficient difference in weapon power over non-perked improvements? Does spending five perks on Daedric smithing allow a significant and worthwhile advantage over Daedric weapons that are improved without the perk?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.60|166.182.3.60]] 17:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::I do believe the point the original poster pointed out is that it is easily possible to hit the armor cap without spending perks in the SMITHING tree....he said nothing about the heavy/light armor trees. He has a point as far as the armor goes, i'd imagine with the 150% armor bonus you can get from the perks in the heavy/light armor trees, you could easily cap out, and it also seems to be even more appealing if you plan on using a unique weapon, of the type that can't be upgraded with a smithing perk (mace of molag bal for example). if you plan, however, on using daedric weapons, i fully suggest getting the smithing perks. Basically, after 100 smithing, weapons for which you have the perk upgrade 2.5 times faster. roughly one "level" of damage every 20 points as opposed to every 50 points. max armsman, ~100% fortify one-handed damage, a one-handed skill of 82, and a daedric sword smithed up to about 225 skill (with perk) and i'm doing about 210 damage per swing...i can kill dragons in 2-3 power attacks. [[User:Limduhl|Limduhl]] 19:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::The difference between weaponry that has been improved with a perk and weaponry that has not been improved with a perk is much greater than the difference between different tiers of weaponry. Continuing my previous example, a Daedric bow that has been improved without the perk will do a mere 48 damage. The Elven bow that has been improved with the perk does much better than that. So, if you're looking for heavy armor that hits the damage cap AND hard-hitting weaponry, you could spend one perk in Heavy Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Heavy Armor and two perks in Smithing (to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). Similarly with light armor, you could spend two perks in Light Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Light Armor and two perks in Smithing (once again, to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 19:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Would you consider this drastic difference game breaking? Three shotting a dragon seems like it would ruin the flow of play, and is likely to get nerfed by a patch. What about the hardest difficulty? What sort of difference do the perk improved weapons make then?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.237|166.182.3.237]] 19:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Understand that this answer is much more subjective. Personally, I think Smithing is game-breaking. 80% damage reduction is too good. Being able to kill most normal enemies in one or two hits is too good. Without armor improvement and Fortify enchantments, the best you can do with Daedric armor is 66% damage reduction, and a bit more if you use a shield. Without weapon improvement and Fortify enchantments, the most damage you're going to be dealing with a Daedric bow in normal combat is 53 damage (or 80 damage if you get a critical hit). Both of those are assuming you gain max skill and take your perks in Heavy Armor and Archery. If you take a look at my previous examples, you can see the comparison. Smithing saves you a few defensive perks while also buffing your weaponry significantly (the same player with a Smithing-perk improved Daedric bow is dealing 140 damage, or 210 on a critical hit). Now, I haven't played on Master difficulty, so I don't know if that sort of damage reduction or damage output is really necessary. On Expert, it's not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 21:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::I thought as much. It would be worth testing the hard mode effects, if someone who owns the game would be willing, but making a note on the main page of the exploit's ability to significantly alter gameplay might be wise. Likewise, an edit might also mention that, unless patched, the exploit could gain similar benefits to a non-exploit + perk combination, which could save more "moderate" players a few perk points in their build.[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.209|166.182.3.209]] 00:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::I would be interested in that. There are many interesting perks to spend the few extra points on. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.15.252|95.206.15.252]] 17:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
{{Outdent|:::::}}
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." You can't call Smithing an exploit. It's an intended part of the game. It may not be well balanced, but it's not an exploit.

I think a part of the problem is that there is no way to level up Smithing organically. For example, I can level up Alteration by standing around casting Detect Life in the middle of a crowded city, but that's fairly boring. I can also let Alteration level up a bit at a time by casting Stoneskin while I'm in fights, which is obviously more exciting and fun. With Smithing, the only way to level it up is to grind out some items. If I'm going to be grinding and my skill has no chance of improving without future grinding, then I might as well go ahead and get as much of it out of the way as I can. This can lead to quickly getting 100 Smithing. Alchemy suffers from the same problem. Enchanting would as well except you can enchant up a Soul Trap weapon and head out into the field with Azura's Star for a more organic approach to leveling up. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 18:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

This has drifted quite a long way off the original topic, but the short answer is "yes": there is absolutely no NEED to take any smithing perks at all, ever. It won't in any way impact the quality of your gear at any level, including endgame. There are BENEFITS to taking them though: they can give you access to "above level" gear, making you significantly stronger during the first 2/3 or so of the game. Arcane Blacksmith is an arguable exception though, since it provides a very significant benefit during those early levels, and at a cost of only 2 perks is certainly worth taking unless your build is cripplingly starved. It will also allow you to improve Uniques, which is often highly desirable. [[User:Aliana|Aliana]] 10:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Clarification on the Item_Quality section? ==

At level 48, with Smithing Skill of 100, Fortify Smithing of 12% (Forgemaster's Fingers), and Ebony Armor perk, I can improve an Ebony Bow from 56 to 95 (Legendary). The [[Skyrim:Smithing#Item_Quality]] section seems (seems) to insist that this Ebony Bow should go from 56 to 66 (+10), with my qualifications. Is there some sort of general caveat or other info missing from this section? Such as how the [[Skyrim:Armor|Armor]] section says "everything only applies to base armor ratings"? Thanks if you can help -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 05:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

: Actually that table says that "at smithing 91 with perk you'll be able to improve your bow to Legendary with +10 damage", what happens with more smithing is not in the table.[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 13:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Incremental upgrade progress - clarification needed ==

maybe it is me being dumb, but is the following true - when player's effective smithing is in range for quality X upgraded item gets quality X with +Y corresponding to X, no matter how close effective smithing is to higher border of the interval corresponding to quality X...
Thus, if you have 100 smithing and a perk, you upgrade to Legendary #1 (+10), if you add, say, 9% more smithing, you still get legendary #1 (+10), but if you add, say 20%, you get Legendary #2 with bigger bonus (+11 ?)
/Sergio/ [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 18:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Enhance smithing 100% = perk ==

I have just been messing around a bit with console commands and enchanting and smithing. i have discovered something interesting after i created myself gloves of 100% to smithing. at 100% i can improve items to legendary at exactly level 91 of smithing. one point less and it is epic. (taken no perks at all in smithing, obviously)

== Left side vs. Right side for a light armor character ==

Right side is of course better(Daedric weapons and best light armor) but it also requires one perk more. Daedric weapons do only 2 points of damage more than Glass weapons; with Legendary upgrade, the difference is minor. Since lowest-damage weapons have biggest % difference, let's take dagger as an example. Glass dagger does 9 damage, Daedric - 11. That's 19% damage difference. But when upgraded to Legendary, the damage becomes 19 and 21; the difference becomes slightly less than 10%. Overupgrading with even better Legendary levels will decrease the gap further. So left side is still worth considering for characters low on available perk points. [[Special:Contributions/178.183.231.186|178.183.231.186]] 07:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Smithing

2011-12-06T20:08:42Z

84.63.187.133: /* Certain weapons can't be improved */

== Create page ==
I saw that Elliot said we could create pages, but it still says that I'm not allowed. If it is only for Administraters or patrollers etc. I'm sorry. But if someone wants to create a pickpocketing page, I have a list of all the perks for it on my User page. Thanks. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:45, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

:It's on a blacklist at the moment. Elliot is on about removing it so it's just that anons can't create and edit (i think) and think under 'Skyrim'. It is only Admins at the moment though. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 20:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

::Thanks:), I have the perk tree for pickpocketing too so if anybody needs it it can be copied and pasted from me. [[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:09, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Verifying the 'Custom items' statement ==

On the page, it claims that hides can be used to customize your items, and I'd like to know an official source for this before I start telling people about it. UESP is usually very professional, but seeing as how there is very little information about the game so far, and the source for this info isn't cited on the page, I'd like to know where the person who added it got this information from. {{unsigned|76.20.221.160|9 October 2011}}

:First, as the banner at the top of the article says, all information is preliminary and subject to change. The only way to be completely certain about any game facts is to wait until the game is released.
:The statement about using hides is a summary of several statements I've seen about how Smithing works. For example, [http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/preview-3152.html a Videogamer preview] says:
::"''Kill a wolf, for example, and you can skin him for his hide, which you can then take to a tannery and turn into leather to use as material to design leather-hilted axes and daggers.''"
:If you prefer hard-copy sources, the PC Gamer Skyrim article says, in reference to "an animal hide" found at a crafting station:
::"''... here you'd take leather and make leather strips... you'd then use leather strips to make your own swords and stuff like that.''"
:It also says:
::"''You could get other items from the tanning rack and combine them all to create weapons and armor''."
:--[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sword Sharpening ==

I understand weapons and armor do not degrade, but if you can sharpen your blades does that mean they become dull after a while of fighting, or does it just increase the damage one time depending on your skill level. Thanks.[[User:Apod|Apod]] 18:44, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, they just stay at that level until you improve them further. Then when you're smithing skill improves, you can improve your weapons even more and they will never degrade below that new level and so on until your weapon is at the highest improved level possible.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 19:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
::In that case would the swords spawn with a set dullness/sharpness or start at a zero percent until your character brings it to the grind stone. [[User:Apod|Apod]] 21:04, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Let's say you find a steel longsword that does 10 damage, it will be at 100% health and it will never degrade any further. Then you can sharpen it to 110% and now it will never degrade below 110% health and it will do more damage. Then you can sharpen it to 120%(if you are skilled enough) and then 130% and so on. Once you sharpen it, it will never degrade below it's new level so basically you permanently increase it's damage and health. I don't know if you can find weapons that have already been sharpened though.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 12:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::: Ah, yeah I understand now, it's similar to being an expert armorer in oblivion when you could raise the condition past 100%. Thank you for your help. One more week... [[User:Apod|Apod]] 20:44, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Except they've taken weapon condition out of the game entirely. Weapons and armor simply no longer have "condition". They have quality levels now instead. Item durability/health is not a part of this game. [[Special:Contributions/24.237.190.24|24.237.190.24]] 18:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Maces sharpenning? ==

I'm wondering, can we also upgrade maces and warhammers at a grindstone? It wouldn't really make sense but on the other hand it would mean that we can't upgrade these weapons. Or do we have to do it at a workbench?{{unsigned|77.84.51.169|18:36, 5 November 2011}}
:You can sharpen any weapon. Maces usually kill by causing a large impact to organs or other important areas such as blood vessels with effects such as internal bleeding but by sharpening it the mace might cause puncture wounds resulting in blood loss. Workbenches are for improving armour.[[User:RIM|RIM]] 20:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

:“Sharpening” a mace might be improving the flanges (i.e. the bit on the side that help to focuses the impact) or improving the weighting (again increasing how much damage it courses) rather than literally sharpening it.

:You can sharpen bows as well. :) --[[Special:Contributions/86.9.123.15|86.9.123.15]] 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

== There is only one rank of every perk. ==

None of them have two ranks. Not a single one. Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back? Look at the images from all of the prerelease gameplay floating around. 1 rank of each Smithing perk. Whoever is keeping this charade of two ranks a piece is perpetuating a falsehood with malice aforethought. Stop it! [[Special:Contributions/97.103.109.193|97.103.109.193]] 02:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
:The only reliable sources that I've seen show two ranks for each perk. Although it's very possible that it's been changed since the beta version of the game, we'll have to wait for the game is actually released to confirm that. Any other information that you're seeing right now is from a pirated version of the game, which is not a reliable source. I'd rather perpetuate beta-version information than perpetuate illegal information.
:Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "Why, when I try to change this, does someone change it back?". The [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Smithing&action=history edit history] of the page does not show any edit, ever, where the number of ranks was changed for any of the perks. Furthermore, none of the edits that you've made to any of the skill pages has been undone. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 03:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::1 as in O-N-E rank for all the smithing perks. {{uns|91.113.8.202|12:35, 6 November 2011}}
:::There are two ranks for them as for as official sources have shown. We are sticking with official sources for now. --[[User:Kiz|Kiz]] ·•· [[User_Talk:Kiz|Talk]] ·•· [[Special:Contributions/Kiz|Contribs]] ·•· [[Special:EmailUser/Kiz|Mail]] ·•· 12:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
::::It's one rank per perk according to all people that have had a "hands-on" game. If the official information says otherwise, then it is just bogus. The version that has been made available illegally is also the retail version, not a beta. {{uns|Loufoque|13:17, 6 November 2011}}
:::::My neighbor is a reviewer and has an official copy of the game for the Xbox. One rank per perk. [[Special:Contributions/174.109.111.197|174.109.111.197]] 18:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}Well, we'll update it as soon as he posts a review with this information in it. Or, better yet, when the game is released this Friday. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 18:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::Skyrim broke street date in Australia yesterday (final release). I confirm there is only one rank per smithing perk. Updated accordingly. Back to gaming... --[[User:Alienangel|Alienangel]] 11 November 2011
::"Illegal information." oO --[[Special:Contributions/188.109.121.159|188.109.121.159]] 22:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Power Leveling Section ==

"Power leveling Theory

Continually switch forges, buy out all iron ignots and leather strips, then produce as many iron daggers as possible and sell the daggers back to the forge master. Keep doing this at every forge possible and you will easily level up smithing. For those with less money, you may mine your own iron ore, but it is less effective, as it slows time.

Hunt animals for hides, process these into leather and leather strips at a tanning rack, then use the forge to craft leather bracers. Enchant bracers to level enchanting at the same time. Sell to level speech and make some gold."

Is this section really necessary? I mean, it's pretty obvious that you would level your smithing faster by getting items and crafting them into things. The only thing it really tells me is that Iron Daggers and Leather Bracers are some of the best possible options. But I don't see a Power Leveling section on Enchanting or Alchemy, let alone on any pages in Oblivion for those skills.

If anything I'd expect a page like this: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Increasing_Skills to be started on instead of putting the leveling tips on each page as it makes it easier to find and leaves the skill pages for explaining the hard facts about the skills instead of suggestions and such [[Special:Contributions/76.115.250.108|76.115.250.108]] 12:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not even that good of a method of power leveling your smithing. If you are willing to use a bit of alteration magic, get yourself transmute. Then upgrade all your iron ore into gold ore, and from there smelt that down to gold ingots that you then use in the forge to create gold rings. This way not only will you be working on your smithing, but your alteration too. You'll also net a profit in the end. Of course this method is a bit mana intensive, meaning that if you haven't upped your magic reserves at all, you'll only be able to cast transmute once before needing to let your pool recharge. Sort of annoying if you consider that you have to cast the smell 4 times to get enough gold ore for a single ingot. [[User:Syntic|Syntic]] 13:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

:I agree, so I removed it and added a section to the "Notes" about this method, because it is the fastest. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 01:47, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

== Rings vs Necklaces? ==

It says in the notes section that one ingot is used for necklaces and rings, but it doesn't say that you get two rings with one ingot. I just started the game so have only been able to make silver jewelry, but the value of the two rings added together is the same as the value of the necklace, so is this statement even true, let alone necessary? If someone who knows what they are doing could remove that statement, or edit it to reflect the truth, I'm afraid I don't know how... [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:That note needs to be removed, the one ingot for two rings is the same as the necklace. As well as the fact two rings is twice the objects you can enchant ;) [[Special:Contributions/75.150.195.86|75.150.195.86]] 15:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
::Not sure why neither of you removed it if you felt it should be removed, but I went ahead and got rid of it. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 17:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks Baron, when I tried to do it yesterday I couldn't get the edit screen to show me any text I could edit, when I looked again just now, it was all there. weird. [[Special:Contributions/24.9.7.137|24.9.7.137]] 06:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Any qualities beyond Legendary? ==

Have smithing maxed at 100 (like a BAWS)

Can smithing improvement gloves/etc. be used to create anything better than legendary?

:Legendary is the highest quality. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 12:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

you can continue to improve the att/def of items with plus smithing enchants and potions after 100.
Works on Armor Hand Neck and Ring. Active effects list ring x3 instead of each piece of gear. i only had one potion of 20% so dont know if more can be added or stronger potion. Glass Armor with +100% went to 90 Def. legomike
:My alchemy skill and perks have me making 71% potions. And there are stock potions for 50%+ in the game. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
::Smithing upgrades seem to have a cap somewhere around 230 skill, can anyone confirm exactly where? Or perhaps the values do not scale linearly? -[[Special:Contributions/91.153.22.204|91.153.22.204]] 18:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

== Effects for improving weapons? ==

I see someone added columns to the chart showing the amount of bonus given to torso armor and the other pieces. Does anyone have any data on the amount of bonus given to weapons? Is it different for daggers, maces, warhammers, bows, etc? --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

i just got my daedric curiass to 348, idk if theres a cap or not but i havent hit it yet. im currently looking for some good smithing enhancment items (shouldve done enchanting :/ ) 10:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== daedra hearts ==

Anyone find a somewhat steady supply for daedra hearts to craft daedric items?
other than ingrediant merchants that is. If there is some way to get them possibly put it in the notes section
JJ Lopez

:The Azura's Star quest line gives you 3-5 Daedra Hearts, as well as the ingredient vendors as you mentioned. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Enthir at the college of Winterhold sells two Daedra heart at a time and restocks about every two days. You can find him either in the courtyard of the college or in his room in the Hall of Attainment second level. - Simnos.
::Also at the College of Winterhold you can use the Atronach Forge down the midden to create them; if I remember what I read correctly it requires a black soul gem and a human heart. Of course, neither of those is exactly common so I don't know if it's worth doing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

:I found daedra heart constantly respawning at Kodlak's room in Jorvaskr, after i completed companions quest line. - Riot

Just found that the Dremora at the shine to mehrunes dagon respawn. good way of making money and a steady supply of deadra hearts for armour weapons. --[[User:J.J.-Lopez|J.J.-Lopez]] 01:03, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

== Which branch to take ==

Should the note about going up the right side be edited? Yes the right side has stronger armor, however it is all heavy armor. For a light armor type person like myself, the left tree was a much better choice. Just a thought.

:There's no reason to use Light Armor over Heavy Armor. Once you get the Weightless perk for Heavy Armor it is better in every way than Light Armor, unfortunately. Also, as the note says, going up the right side gives you access to Daedric weapons, which at their base are better than Glass weapons. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 07:59, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::I disagree with this statement, Baron. If you're a sneaky type (at least a GOOD sneaky type), you won't get hit enough to ever level your heavy armor skill to the necessary 70 to get the Weightless perk. Until then it'll make more noise than light and seriously impact your carrying capacity due to the increased weight. For a combat character I'd agree, heavy > light armor. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::The Wind Walker perk is also quite usefull --Lex 23:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC+1)
:Isn't it also untrue that the right side is all Heavy Armor? The strongest Light Armor smithing is Dragon Smithing. [[Special:Contributions/81.233.217.129|81.233.217.129]] 08:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
::Dragon Smithing is both heavy armor and light armor. [[User:Baron|Baron]] 08:34, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
:::My personal belief is that the answer to the question "what is your character using?" is also the answer to which path to take, if you're only going to take one. However, I will say that the left path produces substandard weaponry in the long run. Glass weapons are good, but they just don't compare to ebony or daedric. I went the right path but also took elven smithing because elven weapons are slightly better than dwarven and quite a bit better than orcish.--[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 19:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

My major qualm with the statement is that this path requires you to spend a lot of skill perks in HA (or armour at all) to make it absolutely superior (which it then will become, agreed). But if you have a few other points of interest, you may run out of perk points to do so (you need one extra for smithing plus some more for getting heavy armour to work as described). As a level 41 sneaky arch(ery)mage I have yet to have extra perk points for armour at all - and you would need 3 armour (plus 1 smithing) perk you'll miss somewhere else. You'll get better self constructed weaponry, but that's it, the other perks may be completely wasted (Boosting unarmed attack? Halving damage from falling? Both not really convincing, are they?). So while this may generally be a true statement for smithing inclined characters, it is far from the absolute truth. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.179.72|93.232.179.72]] 05:39, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:No it doesn't; at most, you 'waste' one perk. Let's say you're more interested in light armor. You're still better served going down the heavy armor branch. You get the better weaponry and the same top-level light armor. "But what ever will I do until I get to Dragon Armor?" you ask. The same thing anyone that isn't Smithing does - find it or buy it. In addition, you'll have something to do with all those Dwarven Metal Ingots you'll have laying around: make something for profit and to level your Smithing. So the trade-off is one perk to complete the right side for superior weaponry. Considering that you generally survive by killing your foes, superior weaponry seems worth it. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Question: are you able to learn Daedric smithing from the dragon armour? IE, go up the light path to dragon armour, then down one of the heavy paths to get Daedric? Because, if this is the case, then what path you go down doesn't matter, as to get both Daedric and Dragon requires 6 perks (including steel). I'm a little disappointed that the light path has two armour only perks that have no weapons but heavy armour, and the heavy armour tree gets only heavy armour and the best weapons, seems a little uneven.--[[User:Kratch|Kratch]] 17:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
:No, you cannot circle around after Dragon Armor. I agree that the Light Armor path is disappointing. Advanced Armor is probably the most useless perk ever. "Hey, over here in the Light Armor smithing side, you can learn to smith a Heavy Armor!" --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 17:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

You're right about that (only one perk even if you're going for LA). I should point out, though, that one of the reasonings for HA is that it is strictly superior with the right perks, which is correct, but that way wastes perks to reach this state. I was probably mixing up those two aspects. --[[Special:Contributions/93.232.183.243|93.232.183.243]] 21:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Fortify Smithing ==

Does this effect increase the statistics of an item when you make it or does it just increase the improvements made at the grindstone and workbench? [[User:Olioster|Olioster]] 15:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:I think it increases your effective skill. Another site has a chart for the improvements that goes well beyond 100 smithing skill, and shows higher improvements at higher skill levels. I have no idea how far it goes. However, I will say this much: when my first character reached 100 smithing, I made and improved an Ebony Mace for myself, since the damage for the ebony was the same as the daedric. I had a necklace that added 12% to smithing, but didn't use it then. Later, when I was making a Daedric War Axe, I had disenchanted that necklace, enchanted another as well as two pieces of leather armor to 8% each, and used all of those plus a smithing potion for the improvement. When I did, I discovered that I could improve the ebony mace yet again, to higher than it was before. There is definitely some category higher than 100 smithing. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
::Yes, even if the item is Legendary quality, it can still be improved upon, and there does not appear to be a cap on how far the improvement can go, so potions and enchantments that fortify smithing, perks and smithing skill can combine to make weapons and armor that have exorbitant stats. In theory, a character that perks heavily into crafting can make some of the highest rated weapons and armor possible, through fortified enchantments, fortified potions and max smithing perks and skill. There's also a cross-crafting exploit with enchanting and alchemy that could potentially push the smithing improvements beyond game breaking limits. [[Special:Contributions/24.156.216.144|24.156.216.144]] 14:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

To directly answer your question, it only affects improvements made at the grindstone/workbench. Items stats can also be increased with fortify smithing enchants/potions, though the name will remain legendary.

== Materials ==

It might be useful to provide a list of what crafting items correspond to which item types
i.e.
Leather to Hide Armour
Iron Ingot to Iron Armour
Steel Ingot to Steel Armour
Refined Malachite for Glass...
etc.
:I completely agree with you, However, your use of "i.e." was incorrect. I.E. means "id est" which is Latin for "that is" meaning you are stating something very specific. I think you meant to use "E.G." which means exempli gratia which, in English, translates into "for the sake of example" meaning you are listing off a few examples, no more. While that has nothing to do with your question in any way, it still drove me insane. I do, of course agree with your suggestion, though. And it might also be useful to give examples of steady sources of these things. I can't find ebony anywhere, and it's driving me nuts! I need ebony!--[[User:M45T3R594RT4N|M45T3R594RT4N]] 06:41, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

== Steel Smithing ==

I recently aquired the steel smithing perk and am unable to smith steel...does anyone else have this problem? How do I fix this? I have reached level 30 smithing.

[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)confused smith[[Special:Contributions/216.167.237.76|216.167.237.76]] 01:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:At a guess, you either didn't confirm the selection of the perk (in which case you don't actually have it yet, I did that once, open your skills and see if you have any unspent perks) or you are lacking one or more materials to make it. If you have the perk, there should be a category at the forge interface named Steel. If you're lacking materials then the choices will be greyed out. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 16:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Legendary pt. 2/3/4/5/etc ==

Apparently (according to other wiki's and my personal experience), there are more than one tiers of Legendary. I have 100 smithing and the correct perks, and I was able to upgrade my legendary daedric sword to legendary (but two damage points higher) by wearing 20% boost smithing gauntlets... Somebody with the construction kit look into this. [[User:Stouf761|Stouf761]] 14:04, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not out just yet, but yes there are tier(s) above basic Legendary. I've got two 12% smithing items and two 10% smithing items, which allow some nice improvement. Tossing a 40-50% potion on top of those allows still more improvement. I'm just not sure if the data table on the other wiki is correct. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 18:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
::That's true, look up some crazy smithing and enchanting videos - you can boost a Daedric dagger to 100 dmg or more. The limit is very high and you can boost smithing via potions and enchanting armor. --[[Special:Contributions/147.251.215.82|147.251.215.82]] 20:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I'd don't believe it would be possible to boost a dagger's damage to 100. I've got 100 smithing and about 60% fortify smithing items, plus a 30% potion, and I could only get a glass SWORD to 40 damage.
::::I can get a glass sword to 80 without any kind of +smithing enchants. But you can get a weapons damage to anything you want by taking advantage of the bugged potion system. Just depends on how much time you want to put into it. Apparently the most damage you can get out of a deadric swords without the time spent vs. damage increase being ridiculously low is 1200 dmg per hit. There is an article on it on the official bethesda forums anyway... [[Special:Contributions/213.81.109.62|213.81.109.62]] 01:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::A note to everyone discussing exact numbers on weapons: Those numbers are modified by your skill and/or any relevant enchantments you may have. It's pretty easy to get a dagger over 100 damage... if you have 100 skill, lots of perks, and two or three items with a 40% or more bonus each. --[[Special:Contributions/129.49.21.175|129.49.21.175]] 03:14, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
: I've been wondering this since I have a ring for +17% smithing but when I wear it or don't wear it, there is no difference in the stats of "legendary" items I can craft. That is to say, the same armour crafted with or without the ring gets the same stats so long as I can reach the grade of legendary, however a lot of things I have read do seem to indicate tiers of legendary. I'm going to test this some more tonight, as mentioned above, it's hard to know if people just have maxed enchants and skills to boost their weapon stats.

== SIDES IN SMITHING ==

i was wondering, your choice is smithing (right-left), is permanent..?i mean if u choose heavy than u cant smith light and the opposite???
:If you start taking heavy armor smithing perks, they wont stop you from gaining light armor smithing perks later {{FC|purple|[[User:Andil the mage|Andil the mage]] 19:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)}}
::You can get both...did it myself. It's not very wise to waste the perk points though, so I'd just pick one and stick with it. No respending perk points, so only if you're playing the PC version can you remove/add perks through the console.

== Random armor/weapon loot ==

Just curiosity on my part here: has anyone randomly found any pieces of daedric armor or weaponry aside from arrows? If so, how much and what level were you? My orc is level 44, and I haven't seen a single piece of daedric yet as random loot. I've found a few pieces of ebony armor and weapons in dungeons, and even once ran across a hostile NPC on a road (just called Breton) who was wearing ebony armor/boots/gauntlets, but no daedric thus far aside from what I made myself. Smithing has been well worth the investment to me just for this reason. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 22:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I am hoping that you can find daedric weapons ingame at least. I didn't want to waste points going down to daedric just for weapons.

My character is level 57, and daedric weapons, armor and arrows are starting to show up regularly now.[[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Each type ==

Should we here add list of all thing that can be made in smith and what we need for it? From Iron to Dragon?
--[[User:Aleksa|Aleksa]] 21:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:It would be nice to have a crafting page that lists the materials required, their base value, and the final item's base value. But don't do it unless you can make it look good, in a table.
::Perhaps try checking the already-existing pages at [[Skyrim:Forge|Forge]], [[Skyrim:Grindstone|Grindstone]], and [[Skyrim:Workbench|Workbench]]? --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 07:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

== Certain weapons can't be improved ==

I know at least three weapons that can't be improved via smithing: Shield of Solitude, Skyforge Steel Dagger and Supple Ancient Nord Bow, I think the article should mention that as a bug. Also, does anyone know if there is a console command to "unlock" these items into making them improveable? :)

I have found Nightingale Blade and Bow can not be improved either. And also Wooden Mask (From Labiryntian) and Diadem of the Savant (although it may be a bug that diadem is classed as light armor instead of clothing) 08:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

: I'm currently using a "Nightingale Bow (Legendary)". IIRC, both the Bow and the Blade can be improved with Ebony Ingots. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 20:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Smithing Master Quest ==

I know there are some other master quests that open up when you reach 100 skill, like the one that gives you a new spell in destruction. Is there one for smithing, that gives you say, a new craftable item?

: I don't know of such but if there is my bet is that it's either given at the Skyforge (may have to complete Companions quest line first) or at forge in Riften (That special one that the smith asks you to get firesalts to "feed" to it). --[[Special:Contributions/213.178.104.81|213.178.104.81]] 22:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

::It's not from the smithie at Riften... I have 100 Smith skill and gave him the 10 fire salts. No new quest. -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 04:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
i was wondering the same thing...i have a legendary dragon armor and i went to improve it and it said to me that u dont have the required skill...is there more improveness in weapons and armors???what is the reward for the fire salts quest?i'm about to start wondering all skyrim in every shop...if there is no special reward for that just money or armor no need for all that trouble..!

== Improving weapons even more ==

I had smithing/enchanting/alchemy maxed out, made the 130 percent better smithing potion, and the 4 apparel pieces of 49 percent better smithing. I thought that this way, I could sharpen stuff to the max. (Without mask glitching.)
I recently went to improve some new armor pieces, when I noticed that I could improve my previous pieces even further! All of them! I don't know the reason for that, since skills and gear were already maxed. Did anyone else notice this? Does anyone know the reason? [[Special:Contributions/62.235.168.211|62.235.168.211]] 19:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Smithing for Money:

What is the best way to forge items for profit?
For example, how high does speech need to be to balance out the ratio of buying raw materials and selling back a finished product (e.g. dwarf armor?).

[[Special:Contributions/71.90.234.87|71.90.234.87]] 06:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC) Hairmetalml

== Smithing Silver ==

There doesn't seem to be a smithing perk for it, and it doesn't come up as an option when at forges, and I can't improve silver weapons at grindstones. I have loads of silver ingots, but I can't use them. Is it actually possible to smith with silver?

:you can make jewrelly with silver, thats it. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 13:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC))

== Bugged Fortify Smithing ==

Wearing multiple smith-increasing items with the same effect (e.g. necklace +20% + bracers +20%) seems to bug out and only applies one of them (seemingly random which ones). Under Active Effects, two fortifications are shown but they are both from exactly the same item. Anyone else having this problem?

Sometimes an item's fortifications even shows as being active when I'm not even wearing the item!

[[Special:Contributions/82.23.158.97|82.23.158.97]] 23:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am having the same bug (I'm on the Xbox by the way), both with custom-created Fortify Smithing and Alchemy items that provide the same magnitude of effect. When I wear the gear, multiple instances of the same item are listed under Active Effects, or sometimes even the name of an unequipped item of identical magnitude appears instead when I equip just one item. Also my custom-made Fortify Smithing potion won't appear under Active Effects if I'm wearing my Smithing gear. If I unequip the gear, it appears.

I haven't crunched the numbers to see if the full buff is being applied to created items. However I did try removing my gear (I was wearing four Fortify Smithing items) one by one when I was improving some armor, and I had to be wearing all four for the option to improve the armor to appear (white highlighted text) in the Smithing menu, even though Active effects claimed I was wearing three Gauntlets. So it seems there is some effect being applied even when the names in the Active Effects menu are screwed up.

== Cleaning Up the "Notes" section. ==

As you all might have noticed the Notes section is getting rather big, and is quickly becoming an unorganized mess. Rather than taking away valuable information we might do well to create new pages or sections concerning among other things: Help leveling up and items that fortify smithing... Tell me what you think [[User:Thelastoneusaw|Thelastoneusaw]] 16:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:In helping to resolve this problem a bit, here's a chunk out of the notes that should have been a discussion on the talk page: "Some items have a limited evolution cap, meaning you can't refine them over a certain level. For example, the Blades armor won't go above "Exquisite" regardless of your skill. Whether it's a bug or not is unknown. (It's not since you can't get its perk you cannot improve it twice as much.)

:[Blade armour can be improved to legendary, if 1. The player has a high blacksmithing skill (such as 100). 2. The player is wearing enchanted clothing which give a bonus to blacksmithing (With a skill level of 100 in enchanting it is possible to make +25% bonus to blacksmithing items e.g. a set of gloves, a ring, a necklace and a main body clothing item. This is without an enchanting potion. With an enchanting potion I've hit +28% blacksmithing), and 3. the player uses a powerful potion which increases blacksmithing skill. With 'perks' spent in the heavy armour tree, blade armour can reach the 567 armour cap and thus give 80% damage reduction]."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 00:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:Another note. If anyone disagrees and thinks any of these should be on the main page, post about it. "The fastest way to train your Smithing skill is to make iron daggers, as they only need 1 iron bar and 1 leather strip to be made.If you're aiming to get to level 100 Smithing, you will need a lot of gold beforehand if you're going to buy the materials. Also, after exhausting a smith's supply of iron bars, iron ore, leather, and/or leather strips, you can wait for 2 days (48 hours) to restock the smith's supply of them. A cheap way of doing this is to craft hide and leather armors at the forge. These require only leather and leather strips, which can be obtained for free through hunting. The plains right outside Whiterun are rich in deer, wolves and in late game even an occasional saber cat. All these yield free leather with an added bonus of improving archery or other combat traits. Also leather armor fetches better prices than iron daggers, racking up gold and speech bonuses each time they are sold."
:--[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 22:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

:I come bearing more notes. "By far the easiest way to increase smithing is to make lots and lots of iron daggers. By fast traveling continuously between three different holds, it is possible to endlessly purchase iron ore, iron ingots and animal hides. (Whiterun should be among these, as the smith and her husband have different shop inventories.)Once a massive amount of materials has been compiled, transform them into iron ingot and leather strips. Then make iron daggers. Even at level 90+ it only takes 10 or 11 daggers to gain a level. Overall, the materials required to get smithing from level 20 to 100 using this method cost less than ten thousand gold. This gold is easily attained using the method below."

:"An effective way to raise your Smithing skill is by making jewelry. This method is very good for aspiring smiths short on money, because you can raise your skill and make coin at the same time. A good way to take advantage of this is to head out to places containing a lot Gold or Silver Ore veins (e.g. [[Skyrim:Kolskeggr Mine|Kolskeggr Mine]] which yields 24 gold veins) and use the ore to make jewelry. If you learn the Transmute alteration spell (which can easily be attained from [[Skyrim:Halted Stream Camp|Halted Stream Camp]]) you can also find or buy iron ore, transmute it into silver and then gold ore, and then smelt it into gold ingots from which you can make jewelry." --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:39, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Notched pickaxe does not stack ==

the effect from the notched pickaxe does not seem to stack with other smithing bonuses, i have the silver blood family ring, and had already upgraded my armor and weapons with it, equiping the pickaxe and the ring did not give me the option to improve it any more, i then bought some gauntlets that let me improve items more, those and the silver blood ring let me upgrade my items, the gauntlets and the pick didnt, as the ring and the pick didnt either. Feedback?

Also on a unrelated note, ''some'' artifacts can be upgraded higher than flawless, without smithing bonuses with the perk bonus, for example, my ebony mail can be upgraded to legendary using the ebony smithing perk, using a ebony bar, so it is obviously counted as a ebony cuirass. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 12:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC))

== Is there a CAP to improving items? ==

I do not know if this is true, but for me seemes that one can only upgrade items up to double their base price (without perk) or up to triple their base price (with a perk), and this is achieved at about 200% smithing, further increase of smithing does not give anything. Am I right? [[Special:Contributions/195.19.39.175|195.19.39.175]] 08:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I read about a hardcap of approximately 800 armor, anything above is of no use. Do not know if this is true.

There is no cap to the values (damage reduction is capped at 80% but the displayed armor rating will continue to increase). You can test with the console. --[[User:Evil4Zerggin|Evil4Zerggin]] 00:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Yea, but could you, Evil4Zerggin, answer my initial question about "smithing" cap?
(that first strings are mine even if from another IP)
[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 08:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Why bother with perks? ==

Unless Bethesda severely alters the whole alchemy/enchanting/smithing triangle with a patch, it seems wasteful to drop any perk points in Smithing.

For one, every single item that has a creation perk is available through alternative means. Even Daedric armor and weaponry will show up in random loot at a high level.

Next, armor has a cap. Improving your armor beyond a certain point is useless.

That armor cap can be reached, theoretically, with any items. The perks are not needed, since you can just uber-fortify your Smithing skill and get to Legendary.

Fortifying weapon damage to obscene levels seems like it would just make the game less enjoyable, unless you're playing the hardest difficulty. (how much do ubersmithed weapons help on the hardest difficulty anyway?)

Since it seems like the perks only offer the benefit of early game access to high level armor, should the page make note that late game optimizing players might just want to skip the two arms of the perk tree?
[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.54|166.182.3.54]] 03:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:An interesting posit. Really, you're going to have to spend the perks somewhere. Assume a character that has max skill and no perks in either Heavy Armor or Smithing. With Daedric improved through the enchant/alchemy loop, you're only going to get to about 51% damage reduction. Adding four Fortify Heavy Armor enchants will only bump that up to about 61%. So the question is, "Which way would it be most efficient to spend your perks?" Assuming you'd prefer to save your enchants for something other than Fortify Heavy Armor, you can spend four perks in the Heavy Armor tree to get your armor rating to hit cap (either four ranks of Juggernaut or Juggernaut->Well Fitted->Tower of Strength->Matching Set). This has the nice side-effect of reducing the amount of stagger you take. Alternately, you could spend five perks in Smithing and take one rank of Juggernaut. This will also put you over the armor cap while letting you upgrade your weapons twice as well. Personally, I think Smithing is the better choice. Under the "only Heavy Armor perks" scenario, I doubt you could spend two more perks anywhere on the perk tree and be nearly as effective as you would have been if you'd had the upgraded weaponry of the Smithing perks. However, if you're really only after the armor (say, you're playing a Heavy Armor Destruction mage), then the Heavy Armor perks are a better value. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 04:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Heavy Armor does, however, benefit much more from its smithing perk path. What of Light Armor users?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.48|166.182.3.48]] 05:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::In my opinion, Light Armor users should still go down the right side of the path. The left side of the path is disappointing in terms of weaponry, and both sides lead to Dragon Armor, which is your goal if you're going with Light Armor. With Dragonscale, you'll hit about 47% damage reduction. Adding the four Light Armor enchants only gets you to around 56%. With four Light Armor perks (2 ranks of Agile Defender, Custom Fit, and Matching Set) and no enchants, you can hit the armor cap. Alternately, with six Smithing perks and two Light Armor perks (either 2 ranks of Agile Defender or Agile Defender + Custom Fit) you can hit the armor cap. Obviously with Light Armor, it's much harder to defend spending an extra four perks for your weapon upgrades. A middle ground is using the left side of Smithing, which only costs five Smithing perks (plus the two Light Armor perks) but nets you Glass weaponry to upgrade instead of Daedric.

::::I'd never run the numbers before for weaponry, but apparently the max damage isn't that different. For example, assuming a character with max skill but no weaponry perks and some enchant/alchemy loop improved weaponry with the Smithing perks, a Glass Bow will be dealing 64 damage while a Daedric Bow will be dealing 70 damage. I'm pretty sure the weapon perks won't change the relative difference; the Glass Bow will always be a little more than 8% damage behind the Daedric Bow. The Elven Bow isn't even that bad. Upgraded, it deals 62 damage. Is it less damage? Well, yeah. Is it an amount of damage you're going to care about? Probably not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 06:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::Is it worth considering the role of the Alteration spells in this? At least for the Heavy Armor Destruction mage mentioned above, considering how often you'll need cap in the first place, 40-80 points could reliably be shaved off. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.0.227|95.206.0.227]] 12:54, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::It looks like with Stoneskin or higher, you could get by with one less armor perk in each case. In one case with Light Armor, it doesn't quite get you to the cap, but you're all of three or four points off, so that should be close enough. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 14:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:So essentially, the gist I'm getting is that if a user specializes in an Armor skill with perks, a non-perked Smithing skill will be all that's necessary to hit the armor protection cap for either armor type. The question is, then, do the perks make a sufficient difference in weapon power over non-perked improvements? Does spending five perks on Daedric smithing allow a significant and worthwhile advantage over Daedric weapons that are improved without the perk?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.60|166.182.3.60]] 17:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::I do believe the point the original poster pointed out is that it is easily possible to hit the armor cap without spending perks in the SMITHING tree....he said nothing about the heavy/light armor trees. He has a point as far as the armor goes, i'd imagine with the 150% armor bonus you can get from the perks in the heavy/light armor trees, you could easily cap out, and it also seems to be even more appealing if you plan on using a unique weapon, of the type that can't be upgraded with a smithing perk (mace of molag bal for example). if you plan, however, on using daedric weapons, i fully suggest getting the smithing perks. Basically, after 100 smithing, weapons for which you have the perk upgrade 2.5 times faster. roughly one "level" of damage every 20 points as opposed to every 50 points. max armsman, ~100% fortify one-handed damage, a one-handed skill of 82, and a daedric sword smithed up to about 225 skill (with perk) and i'm doing about 210 damage per swing...i can kill dragons in 2-3 power attacks. [[User:Limduhl|Limduhl]] 19:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

::The difference between weaponry that has been improved with a perk and weaponry that has not been improved with a perk is much greater than the difference between different tiers of weaponry. Continuing my previous example, a Daedric bow that has been improved without the perk will do a mere 48 damage. The Elven bow that has been improved with the perk does much better than that. So, if you're looking for heavy armor that hits the damage cap AND hard-hitting weaponry, you could spend one perk in Heavy Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Heavy Armor and two perks in Smithing (to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). Similarly with light armor, you could spend two perks in Light Armor and five perks in Smithing or you could spend four perks in Light Armor and two perks in Smithing (once again, to get perk-improved Elven weaponry). --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 19:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Would you consider this drastic difference game breaking? Three shotting a dragon seems like it would ruin the flow of play, and is likely to get nerfed by a patch. What about the hardest difficulty? What sort of difference do the perk improved weapons make then?[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.237|166.182.3.237]] 19:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Understand that this answer is much more subjective. Personally, I think Smithing is game-breaking. 80% damage reduction is too good. Being able to kill most normal enemies in one or two hits is too good. Without armor improvement and Fortify enchantments, the best you can do with Daedric armor is 66% damage reduction, and a bit more if you use a shield. Without weapon improvement and Fortify enchantments, the most damage you're going to be dealing with a Daedric bow in normal combat is 53 damage (or 80 damage if you get a critical hit). Both of those are assuming you gain max skill and take your perks in Heavy Armor and Archery. If you take a look at my previous examples, you can see the comparison. Smithing saves you a few defensive perks while also buffing your weaponry significantly (the same player with a Smithing-perk improved Daedric bow is dealing 140 damage, or 210 on a critical hit). Now, I haven't played on Master difficulty, so I don't know if that sort of damage reduction or damage output is really necessary. On Expert, it's not. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 21:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::I thought as much. It would be worth testing the hard mode effects, if someone who owns the game would be willing, but making a note on the main page of the exploit's ability to significantly alter gameplay might be wise. Likewise, an edit might also mention that, unless patched, the exploit could gain similar benefits to a non-exploit + perk combination, which could save more "moderate" players a few perk points in their build.[[Special:Contributions/166.182.3.209|166.182.3.209]] 00:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
::::::I would be interested in that. There are many interesting perks to spend the few extra points on. [[Special:Contributions/95.206.15.252|95.206.15.252]] 17:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
{{Outdent|:::::}}
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." You can't call Smithing an exploit. It's an intended part of the game. It may not be well balanced, but it's not an exploit.

I think a part of the problem is that there is no way to level up Smithing organically. For example, I can level up Alteration by standing around casting Detect Life in the middle of a crowded city, but that's fairly boring. I can also let Alteration level up a bit at a time by casting Stoneskin while I'm in fights, which is obviously more exciting and fun. With Smithing, the only way to level it up is to grind out some items. If I'm going to be grinding and my skill has no chance of improving without future grinding, then I might as well go ahead and get as much of it out of the way as I can. This can lead to quickly getting 100 Smithing. Alchemy suffers from the same problem. Enchanting would as well except you can enchant up a Soul Trap weapon and head out into the field with Azura's Star for a more organic approach to leveling up. --[[User:Fluff|Fluff]] 18:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

This has drifted quite a long way off the original topic, but the short answer is "yes": there is absolutely no NEED to take any smithing perks at all, ever. It won't in any way impact the quality of your gear at any level, including endgame. There are BENEFITS to taking them though: they can give you access to "above level" gear, making you significantly stronger during the first 2/3 or so of the game. Arcane Blacksmith is an arguable exception though, since it provides a very significant benefit during those early levels, and at a cost of only 2 perks is certainly worth taking unless your build is cripplingly starved. It will also allow you to improve Uniques, which is often highly desirable. [[User:Aliana|Aliana]] 10:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Clarification on the Item_Quality section? ==

At level 48, with Smithing Skill of 100, Fortify Smithing of 12% (Forgemaster's Fingers), and Ebony Armor perk, I can improve an Ebony Bow from 56 to 95 (Legendary). The [[Skyrim:Smithing#Item_Quality]] section seems (seems) to insist that this Ebony Bow should go from 56 to 66 (+10), with my qualifications. Is there some sort of general caveat or other info missing from this section? Such as how the [[Skyrim:Armor|Armor]] section says "everything only applies to base armor ratings"? Thanks if you can help -[[User:RedKnight|RedKnight]] 05:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

: Actually that table says that "at smithing 91 with perk you'll be able to improve your bow to Legendary with +10 damage", what happens with more smithing is not in the table.[[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 13:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Incremental upgrade progress - clarification needed ==

maybe it is me being dumb, but is the following true - when player's effective smithing is in range for quality X upgraded item gets quality X with +Y corresponding to X, no matter how close effective smithing is to higher border of the interval corresponding to quality X...
Thus, if you have 100 smithing and a perk, you upgrade to Legendary #1 (+10), if you add, say, 9% more smithing, you still get legendary #1 (+10), but if you add, say 20%, you get Legendary #2 with bigger bonus (+11 ?)
/Sergio/ [[Special:Contributions/87.228.24.249|87.228.24.249]] 18:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Enhance smithing 100% = perk ==

I have just been messing around a bit with console commands and enchanting and smithing. i have discovered something interesting after i created myself gloves of 100% to smithing. at 100% i can improve items to legendary at exactly level 91 of smithing. one point less and it is epic. (taken no perks at all in smithing, obviously)

== Left side vs. Right side for a light armor character ==

Right side is of course better(Daedric weapons and best light armor) but it also requires one perk more. Daedric weapons do only 2 points of damage more than Glass weapons; with Legendary upgrade, the difference is minor. Since lowest-damage weapons have biggest % difference, let's take dagger as an example. Glass dagger does 9 damage, Daedric - 11. That's 19% damage difference. But when upgraded to Legendary, the damage becomes 19 and 21; the difference becomes slightly less than 10%. Overupgrading with even better Legendary levels will decrease the gap further. So left side is still worth considering for characters low on available perk points. [[Special:Contributions/178.183.231.186|178.183.231.186]] 07:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Lost Knife Hideout

2011-12-06T07:18:57Z

84.63.187.133: /* Sabre Cat */ new section

==Easter Egg==
The marauder in the pit at the end of this dungeon, tends to yell "Hit the one in the middle". Is this a reference to Rocky IV? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qorFS7X1i4Q&t=2m22s [[User:Aezay|Aezay]] 18:30, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== Sabre Cat ==

The cage next to the pit has doors on both sides and a ramp leads down into the pit. The Sabre Cat cage can be opened from the top. If you're low-level enough for the cat to be a threat to anyone there, don't miss the fun. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 07:18, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:The Break of Dawn

2011-12-06T07:10:57Z

84.63.187.133: /* List of Known Possible Beacon Locations */

== Different Location ==
I could not find the beacon in PinePEAK cavern (north of Ivarstead). I went to the shrine and it started the quest. Quest directed me to the beacon in Soljund's Sinkhole. --[[User:AlmightyCow|AlmightyCow]] 00:02, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:: I found the beacon in Honeystrand Cave (also near Ivarstead), which triggered the quest. Obviously the actual location of the beacon is (semi-)random, so I suggest the page be edited to reflect this (and that visiting the shrine will give you the exact location) [[Special:Contributions/124.170.15.129|124.170.15.129]] 03:19, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
:::: At least one of the possible beacon location is the Emperor's bedroom which is pretty damn bizarre. It bugs the quest since The Katariah, the ship the Emperor rides, doesn't appear until the appropriate Dark Brotherhood quest.

== Starting the quest ==

There is no need to find the beacon first. Approaching the shrine will initiate the quest if you meet the level requirement. The daedra will then place a marker on your map with the location of the 'beacon'.

== Bugs ==
I activated the pedestal before every skeleton in that room was dead, which resulted in the door remaining locked with a key requirement. Dunno if this is a bug or one time thing so I put it here instead of the real page :P--[[User:Teol|Teol]] 20:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

== Beacon location ==

I have started the quest, but do not have a map marker to show where to find the beacon. I am not sure if this is a bug, or that the location is not available yet. I have read that the dawnstar sanctuary is a possible spawn spot for the beacon, and I do not yet have access to it.

I found this problem too, and I advanced to the next phase of the quest (number 1 I think) using the console and got teleported to a boat. I found the beacon in a chest on that boat. [[Special:Contributions/96.52.103.148|96.52.103.148]] 05:06, 20 November 2011 (UTC)negatiiv

I just advanced my quest phase using setstage DA09 1 which sent me to a room down inside the Dawnstar Sanctuary, of which I have no access to as I killed the Dark Brotherhood. I think something needs to be done to alleviate having it appear somewhere the player has limited or quest restricted access to. I believe this is what is causing the quest to stay unmarked on the map. When this happens, the Beacon is just placed somewhere the player has no ability, at that time or period (depending on choices made in the game), to access.

Seconding the above. Mine ended up aboard the Katariah, which didn't exist (hadn't advanced that far in the DB questline) until I used the setstage command.

Thirded. I found it on the Katariah, and there was only a quest marker once "Hail Sithis!" started.

==Image for the article/image of the shrine==
Can anyone take this and re-upload it onto the wiki?:
[http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3664/2011111800002.jpg]

:No, copyright and all that. I'll just upload one I have sitting around for now. --[[User:Alpha Kenny Buddy|AKB]] [[User_talk:Alpha_Kenny_Buddy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Cont]] [[Special:Emailuser/Alpha Kenny Buddy|Mail]] 14:56, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

== Random interruptions ==

It's not unique to this quest, it can technically happen anytime outdoors. However, in this case it was a little funny though it was game breaking. I'd recovered the beacon, and was talking to the glowing spot of light that is Meridia while way up in the air, when a dragon attacked. It didn't attack me, it did attack Meridia, and she did not fight back. I don't think it could harm her, but it broke the conversation and I was unable to continue. I wound up reloading the auto-save before I fast traveled back there, killed the dragon, and then continued the quest. --[[User:Quillan|Quillan]][[User talk:Quillan|Talk]] 15:26, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

==Nothing wrong with visiting Jarls with the Beacon==
Can someone confirm this? I found the beacon and pretty much visited a ton of people and then finally went to stick it in the Shrine. I didn't get attacked by anyone that wasn't supposed to be attacking me. Or does it refer to something else? Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/128.54.152.141|128.54.152.141]] 10:03, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

: I also visited a Jarl or two with the Beacon and found no problem with their behavior. I'm cutting that line fromt he main page for now. If mistaken, people will let me know, I'm sure. [[User:Krag|Krag]] 00:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

==Tip from article==
: ''(moved from the article, where it was posted by [[User:71.105.81.7|71.105.81.7]])''
to all those who get the quest but you never seem to get a marker of the location its because the game has made it for you to complete certain quest before it is revealed,in my case it was revealed till i completed the dark brotherhood quest to kill an empire after that you will start hail sithis once the location of the real emperor is reveal activate meridias quest an guess were the beacon is now located in the boat with the emperor in other cases its been revealed after certain quests from the companions so their for if your one of those ppl who didnt get a location its because you have not meet the requirements for it to apear
:: This seems like a good tip, but is in 1st person and hard to follow. --[[User:Krusty|Krusty]] 13:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

==List of Known Possible Beacon Locations==
[[Skyrim:Pinemoon Cave|Pinemoon Cave]] 
[[Skyrim:Soljund's Sinkhole|Soljund's Sinkhole]] 
[[Skyrim:Honeystrand Cave|Honeystrand Cave]] 
[[Skyrim:The Katariah|Emperor's Bedroom (Katariah)]] 
[[Skyrim:Chillwind Depths|Chillwind Depths]] 
Someone should add what we've got so far to the page. I'm terrible with wiki-formatting. -VC

: Mine was in the [[Skyrim:Lost Knife Hideout|Lost Knife Hideout]]. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 07:10, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:Hard Answers

2011-12-05T23:09:36Z

84.63.187.133: /* Quest Glitch */ can't complete quest second time around

== City Guards ==

Two details: First, it doesn't seem that the city guards ignore you in the lab, as I always was caught by them and given a 5 Septim bounty. And 2nd, the city guards in the lab seem to be buggy, too, especially when using shouts (like Throw Voice or the Aura Thingy): In both cases, the guard started coming torwards me (me still being hidden, the 2nd time the guard even seemed to spawn out of nowhere) and tells me to stop. After that, as the guard is now near me, he tries to arrest me suddenly. --[[User:Irian|Irian]] 17:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:When i did this, i sneaked behind a guard patrolling, and without noticing me, he turned around and tried to arrest me with the same dialogue as in the prison quest when you get framed, even though i'd already completed that. --[[User:Bonabopn|Bonabopn]] 18:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

== Quest Glitch ==

Something to beware (and test)

I've long since completed the Thieves Guild Quest line, however upon returning to Calcemo and going through all of his Dialogue options, I managed to persuade him into giving me the key to the Museum. Once I obtained the key the quest re-activated, telling me to copy down his notes again.

I've yet to go though with this, however I'm assuming it will never get completed (As some of the characters involved might not exist in my Game world anymore.)

~Dero (I'll remember my account password eventually) 8:55, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

: The quest reactivated for me as well, simply by visiting the dwarven museum, I completed it again and that was that, although I do not know what effect it could have had on Karliah.

:: This is the bug which leads to the bugged quest TG08A (Trinity restored) where Karliah will move back to Winterhold. Resolving it this way or via console solves the bug in TG08A and following. [[Special:Contributions/91.42.214.185|91.42.214.185]] 00:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
:::I've had the same issue. Interestingly, I had to go into Calcelmo's lab again to pickpocket Alicanto because of one of the Radiant TG quests. It started the quest for me, so I followed it to see what would happen. It turned out they completed the quest as if normal, and Karliah gave me a better Nightingale Blade. Then she started using her normal dialogue, i.e. after the TG questline is finished. But I never had it lead to the Trinity Quest, it just ended.[[User:Aresvallis|Aresvallis]] 16:00, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

:: For the first run, I somehow gained entry into the museum other than persuasion or killing Nimhe. Now, coming back for Nimhe and Puzzle Cube, I officially got the key from Calcelmo and upon entering the museum, Hard Answers reactivated for me as well. But now I can't seem to enter Calcemo's Tower a second time as the door from the balcony "requires key". (Same with the shortcut gate back to the entrance area of the lab. Amusingly, if you try to open the latter, the door behind you slams shut and is "barred from the other side", trapping you there. I had to reload.) I killed the quest with <code>setstage TG06 200</code> which, of course, leaves a second quest log in the completed list and gives you a Nightingale Blade for your current level. [[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 23:09, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

== Calcelmo's Lab ==

I just ran through the lab w/ his guards in pursuit. They didn't follow me on to the balcony area. As the main article points out, there's no bounty involved in being detected by his guards.

After collecting the rubbing, I left his quarters by strafing left and up on to the ledge above the hallway. If you sneak quickly you can sneak out just as they're beginning their search of his quarters.

On the return trip through the lab, you can unbarricade the door that bypasses the long trip through the zone, so sneaking back through fairly easy.

[[User:Bootstomp|Bootstomp]] 02:06, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

In the laboratory, the wizard guards do not give any bounty if attacked and killed. There is one city guard who always catches you resulting in a 5 Septim bounty. He can see you even if you are invisible and will start coming towards you. Once he is close enough, he will initiate dialogue about you having committed crimes against the city and you will get a bounty. If you try and pay the bounty off, you are transported to the entrance of Cidhna Mine even though he replies to the effect of the bounty being taken care of and all your problems going away. Killing him results in a bounty at this point and is the only way out of the quest dialogue without being transported outside.

One solution is if you sneak and shoot him with a bow and arrow before being detected, he will attack along with the wizard guards in the area. You can kill all of them now and you will not get any bounty. From there, only wizard guards will be left in getting to and out of the laboratory. They can be killed with no bounty.

== Another option for entering the Museum ==

It is entirely possible, with a high enough persuade skill, to have him give you the key by telling him you are a huge fan of his work, to which replies that there is no way a teacher could deny an aspiring student or some such. After which, he gives you the key, and tells you to stay out of his lab. Knowing that his work is, in fact, in his lab -_-

== Journal Stuck in Inventory ==

I completed this quest and I still have the journal in my inventory and won't let you drop it. Is it supposed to remain a quest item or is it supposed to be taken by Enthir? Anybody else hit this bug?--[[Special:Contributions/76.98.59.192|76.98.59.192]] 17:57, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
:I have the same thing. My guess is that it used again during the quest line. [[User:Chris3145|Chris3145]] 19:21, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim talk:The Forsworn Conspiracy

2011-12-05T19:52:39Z

84.63.187.133: /* Bugs */

It looks like if you get teleported to Markath by another quest, the event which triggers this quest chain never starts (if you grab the books involved by the quest first at least). You can still get the quest but Eltrys never spawns. He can be spawned with player.placeatme 00013394. PC version without patch.

If you mean appearing in the Dibella Temple after too much drink, there's no problem. W still sticks a knife in his victim when you encounter them & E give you "your" note. [[Special:Contributions/118.208.86.234|118.208.86.234]]

I got to Markath for the first time through that drinking competition and my quest was fairly bugged - didn't have any of the quest in my log until I left the Warrens and had Dryston beat me up. Ended up randomly going into Talo's Shrine and started the next quest despite only having done 1/8 of the quest. Really buggy. :(

== bug ==

on the ps3 version, when i completed this quest it took all of my quest items from my inventory.

:I'm on the 360 and I didn't lose all my quest items, just the 2 fragments of the Gauldur Amulet I had. I ended up reloading one of my autosaves to where I entered the shrine and got arrested so I left the quest, finished the quest to completely reforge the amulet and then went to finish this quest. I purposely emptied my inventory of everything first, except for my 3 quest items, the 2 diaries for this quest and the Saarthal Amulet. Lo and behold doing this quest again ended up with me losing the Saarthal amulet. So now I've had to reload my autosave again to go sort out the Saarthal amulet quest. Damn annoying. --[[User:Lyco499|Lyco499]] 06:24, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

== Bugs ==

1)Finishing No One Escapes Cidhna Mine grants the player only with one place where Forsworn are not hostile, despite the fact that player is named "friend" of them after the quest is done. In all other places, Forsworn will be hostile.

2)In my game eve nafter finishing the quests The Forsworn Conspiracy and No One Escapes Cidhna Mine, when I enter the Shrine of Talos, the whole thing with the guards repeats itself - they approach me and ask me to go to jail (this may be avoided by jsut not re-entering the Shrine of Talos)... --[[User:Arkhon|Arkhon]] 04:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

3)I've run into a bug where gaining a bounty in Markath (no matter the amount) after completing the escape from Cidha mine results in the guards coming up to me and responding with the dialogue inside of the Shrine of Talos. You're just stuck in an endless loop of dialogue (which is especially annoying as other guards like to attack you while you're still talking to them). And then tabbing out of the dialogue menu is met with all of the guards in the immediate area coming after you. The only way I've been able to fix this was to click on the guard, use paycrimegold in the console. It immediately takes you to the keep as if you've paid off your bounty. [[Special:Contributions/12.248.24.182|12.248.24.182]] 22:51, 22 November 2011 (UTC)64K1 10:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

The paycrimegold fix doesn't work for me. I completed the original forsword quest by putting an axe through all the prisoners' faces. Later, I murdered an imperial group escorting a Stormcloak prisoner in the borders of the reach which increased my bounty. I went to Markarth to turn in another quest, but the guards go straight into the conspiracy dialogue in an endless loop (as reported above). The paycrimegold console command takes me to the outside of the mine, but the guards are still hostile (I figure this is because my bounty's high enough they'd probably still force jail time). I literally cannot go to the city without being swarmed, which is making it impossible to complete several quests. [[Special:Contributions/98.206.17.95|98.206.17.95]] 18:05, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

- when i was confronted by the soldiers near the end, I asked them to send me to jail but when they did so, the question "what's wrong" came up again, and they proceeded to keep attacking me. (XBox)

On the Xbox I too encountered the bug where the guards would act as though everything was normal, meaning I couldn't progress. I tried waiting for an hour and for 24 hours, and neither worked. I also tried committing a crime, serving my time, and going back, but that didn't work either. After reloading the save from before talking to Eltrys in the Shrine of Talos, I found a solution that worked for me.
What I did after talking to Eltrys was to first go the the Inn, and get information about Margret (I had saved her, so I talked to her directly), and then went back to Eltrys before continuing. I believe this is what fixed it. I then found out about Weylin, and again went back to Eltrys. I proceeded to talk to Thanos, and then went straight to Nepos, and then I could continue the quest normally.

: I'm on the Xbox 360 and I came across a bug similar to those above. I finished the quest entirely, but when I entered the Shrine of Talos the guards there repeated their confrontation dialogue that occurred during the quest. They proceeded to attack me, turning the entire city against me. --[[Special:Contributions/124.170.119.73|124.170.119.73]] 06:15, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:: On the PC version, I used the <code>killall</code> command once they turned hostile. I still had guards attack me outside, but drawing and sheathing my weapons allowed me to pay off a 1000 bounty, where ever that came from, and everything seems to be fine now. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 19:41, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

::: Went back and retried. If you use <code>killall</code> ''before'' they turn hostile, there's no bounty. I hope this doesn't trigger any kind of cheat flag. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 19:52, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

== Margret's name ==

The name of the woman targeted by the "Forsworn" agent early (I believe his name was Weylin) is not Margaret, but Margret. Just a little spelling variation. Anyone mind if I make the necessary name corrections in this page? {{unsigned|174.60.51.49|22 November 2011}}
:It's a wiki, so there's no need to ask before making changes. Especially right when now the Skyrim articles need millions of fixes. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 16:39, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::I went ahead and made this change -- it was bugging me, too --[[User:Marlos|Marlos]]

== Correct NPC Names ==

I went ahead and changed the names of the NPCs in the Treasury House, as they were incorrectly referred to as "Tidene" and "Dannel" in the article. The descriptions I added in parentheses after their names won't be necessary when their NPC pages are up and can be linked to. -Guest

== Resisting arrest in the end ==

Right after resisting arrest to the guards, just run to Eltris body, take everything and run away to the city without fighting with guards. If you runs away far enough and guards lost your sight, someone "new" (not agressive before) from them should start another arrest dialogue and you may go to jail normally starting next guest. Or if your Sneak skill high enough you may run and hide somewhere, wait some time until all blows over, and then show yourself. 
'''Pros''': avoids tough fight and carnage (for me on PC: only three guards inside Shrine of Talos, but when I started fighting with them another three or random ran inside from the city) and no kills (for "good" characters).

== Correction? ==

Walkthrough says taking Margret's journal will result in a stolen item. I'm playing on the PC and I have the journal, its marked as a quest item, and it is also not market as stolen. Can anyone confirm if the read not take statement in this wiki applies only to consoles?

:Alot of low value items become free to take after you have finished some jobs and all for people. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 09:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC))

::My version his dresser draw was not marked red while everything else is. All the contents of the draw including the quest item are also not marked red. Other low value items in the room are still red.

Skyrim talk:The Forsworn Conspiracy

2011-12-05T19:41:17Z

84.63.187.133: /* Bugs */

It looks like if you get teleported to Markath by another quest, the event which triggers this quest chain never starts (if you grab the books involved by the quest first at least). You can still get the quest but Eltrys never spawns. He can be spawned with player.placeatme 00013394. PC version without patch.

If you mean appearing in the Dibella Temple after too much drink, there's no problem. W still sticks a knife in his victim when you encounter them & E give you "your" note. [[Special:Contributions/118.208.86.234|118.208.86.234]]

I got to Markath for the first time through that drinking competition and my quest was fairly bugged - didn't have any of the quest in my log until I left the Warrens and had Dryston beat me up. Ended up randomly going into Talo's Shrine and started the next quest despite only having done 1/8 of the quest. Really buggy. :(

== bug ==

on the ps3 version, when i completed this quest it took all of my quest items from my inventory.

:I'm on the 360 and I didn't lose all my quest items, just the 2 fragments of the Gauldur Amulet I had. I ended up reloading one of my autosaves to where I entered the shrine and got arrested so I left the quest, finished the quest to completely reforge the amulet and then went to finish this quest. I purposely emptied my inventory of everything first, except for my 3 quest items, the 2 diaries for this quest and the Saarthal Amulet. Lo and behold doing this quest again ended up with me losing the Saarthal amulet. So now I've had to reload my autosave again to go sort out the Saarthal amulet quest. Damn annoying. --[[User:Lyco499|Lyco499]] 06:24, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

== Bugs ==

1)Finishing No One Escapes Cidhna Mine grants the player only with one place where Forsworn are not hostile, despite the fact that player is named "friend" of them after the quest is done. In all other places, Forsworn will be hostile.

2)In my game eve nafter finishing the quests The Forsworn Conspiracy and No One Escapes Cidhna Mine, when I enter the Shrine of Talos, the whole thing with the guards repeats itself - they approach me and ask me to go to jail (this may be avoided by jsut not re-entering the Shrine of Talos)... --[[User:Arkhon|Arkhon]] 04:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

3)I've run into a bug where gaining a bounty in Markath (no matter the amount) after completing the escape from Cidha mine results in the guards coming up to me and responding with the dialogue inside of the Shrine of Talos. You're just stuck in an endless loop of dialogue (which is especially annoying as other guards like to attack you while you're still talking to them). And then tabbing out of the dialogue menu is met with all of the guards in the immediate area coming after you. The only way I've been able to fix this was to click on the guard, use paycrimegold in the console. It immediately takes you to the keep as if you've paid off your bounty. [[Special:Contributions/12.248.24.182|12.248.24.182]] 22:51, 22 November 2011 (UTC)64K1 10:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

The paycrimegold fix doesn't work for me. I completed the original forsword quest by putting an axe through all the prisoners' faces. Later, I murdered an imperial group escorting a Stormcloak prisoner in the borders of the reach which increased my bounty. I went to Markarth to turn in another quest, but the guards go straight into the conspiracy dialogue in an endless loop (as reported above). The paycrimegold console command takes me to the outside of the mine, but the guards are still hostile (I figure this is because my bounty's high enough they'd probably still force jail time). I literally cannot go to the city without being swarmed, which is making it impossible to complete several quests. [[Special:Contributions/98.206.17.95|98.206.17.95]] 18:05, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

- when i was confronted by the soldiers near the end, I asked them to send me to jail but when they did so, the question "what's wrong" came up again, and they proceeded to keep attacking me. (XBox)

On the Xbox I too encountered the bug where the guards would act as though everything was normal, meaning I couldn't progress. I tried waiting for an hour and for 24 hours, and neither worked. I also tried committing a crime, serving my time, and going back, but that didn't work either. After reloading the save from before talking to Eltrys in the Shrine of Talos, I found a solution that worked for me.
What I did after talking to Eltrys was to first go the the Inn, and get information about Margret (I had saved her, so I talked to her directly), and then went back to Eltrys before continuing. I believe this is what fixed it. I then found out about Weylin, and again went back to Eltrys. I proceeded to talk to Thanos, and then went straight to Nepos, and then I could continue the quest normally.

: I'm on the Xbox 360 and I came across a bug similar to those above. I finished the quest entirely, but when I entered the Shrine of Talos the guards there repeated their confrontation dialogue that occurred during the quest. They proceeded to attack me, turning the entire city against me. --[[Special:Contributions/124.170.119.73|124.170.119.73]] 06:15, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:: On the PC version, I used the <code>killall</code> command once they turned hostile. I still had guards attack me outside, but drawing and sheathing my weapons allowed me to pay off a 1000 bounty, where ever that came from, and everything seems to be fine now. --[[Special:Contributions/84.63.187.133|84.63.187.133]] 19:41, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

== Margret's name ==

The name of the woman targeted by the "Forsworn" agent early (I believe his name was Weylin) is not Margaret, but Margret. Just a little spelling variation. Anyone mind if I make the necessary name corrections in this page? {{unsigned|174.60.51.49|22 November 2011}}
:It's a wiki, so there's no need to ask before making changes. Especially right when now the Skyrim articles need millions of fixes. --[[User:Nephele|Nephele]][[User_talk:Nephele|Talk]] 16:39, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::I went ahead and made this change -- it was bugging me, too --[[User:Marlos|Marlos]]

== Correct NPC Names ==

I went ahead and changed the names of the NPCs in the Treasury House, as they were incorrectly referred to as "Tidene" and "Dannel" in the article. The descriptions I added in parentheses after their names won't be necessary when their NPC pages are up and can be linked to. -Guest

== Resisting arrest in the end ==

Right after resisting arrest to the guards, just run to Eltris body, take everything and run away to the city without fighting with guards. If you runs away far enough and guards lost your sight, someone "new" (not agressive before) from them should start another arrest dialogue and you may go to jail normally starting next guest. Or if your Sneak skill high enough you may run and hide somewhere, wait some time until all blows over, and then show yourself. 
'''Pros''': avoids tough fight and carnage (for me on PC: only three guards inside Shrine of Talos, but when I started fighting with them another three or random ran inside from the city) and no kills (for "good" characters).

== Correction? ==

Walkthrough says taking Margret's journal will result in a stolen item. I'm playing on the PC and I have the journal, its marked as a quest item, and it is also not market as stolen. Can anyone confirm if the read not take statement in this wiki applies only to consoles?

:Alot of low value items become free to take after you have finished some jobs and all for people. ([[user:Eddie the head|Eddie The Head]] 09:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC))

::My version his dresser draw was not marked red while everything else is. All the contents of the draw including the quest item are also not marked red. Other low value items in the room are still red.